Nicholas Francisco 11/14/09

[Brattnt]

New day, and a new thread...Please everyone read CW's sticky...Thank you for re-opening the forum CW!...:seeya:

[Starkist]

Welcome back thread! :blushing:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Glad NF's thread is back up once again. Thanks CW.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I really wish I had known that derogatory name tags could not be put on Nicholas. I think we were afraid to report all of the posts like that for fear his thread would get shut down.

I'm very relieved that Nicholas has been found alive....the "well" part of that sentence is still not determined IMO.

[Musterion]

I really wish I had known that derogatory name tags could not be put on Nicholas. I think we were afraid to report all of the posts like that for fear his thread would get shut down.

I'm very relieved that Nicholas has been found alive....the "well" part of that sentence is still not determined IMO.

I think so, too, Rainy.

I'm, also, very relieved that Nicholas is alive. All of those months so many of us continued to hope he was alive and searched the internet for clues, even though we might have believed, based on what information we had, he was dead.

Being alive there is hope for amends to be made. Wrongs to be righted. And, I hope that will happen. All the way around.

IMO.
M.

[Shelby1]

I'm THRILLED that Nicholas is alive!!!

I can't tell you how many missing persons I've followed and tried to help that ended up in tragedy.

Thankfully, this isn't one of them!!!


I, too, am happy to know that the derogatory names that Nicholas was called are NO LONGER ALLOWED! :thumbsup:

Thank you CW!

[Leanne Weich]

From reading a lot of posts since Nicholas was found, it is my opinion that we have a lot of bitter and twisted females posting here. Those of us wsho have been absolutely ecstatic that he is alive don't condone him disappearing and not making provision for the support of his children but, then again, we don't know the circumstances that led to him taking off. He may very well be suffering from a mental health problem, in which case, I don't hold it against him.

I just hope whatever it was, can be resolved and that he can go on to become an integral part of his children's lives (if not for his sake but for theirs). JMHO.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I think so, too, Rainy.

I'm, also, very relieved that Nicholas is alive. All of those months so many of us continued to hope he was alive and searched the internet for clues, even though we might have believed, based on what information we had, he was dead.

Being alive there is hope for amends to be made. Wrongs to be righted. And, I hope that will happen. All the way around.

IMO.
M.

I know I'm not alone when I say that I googled almost every day looking for any sign of life, hoping I would find it. I know others looked for any articles they could find. Speaking of, the last I looked on the Publicis site I did not see where they made any type of announcement. Did I just miss it?

[AMS]

From reading a lot of posts since Nicholas was found, it is my opinion that we have a lot of bitter and twisted females posting here. Those of us wsho have been absolutely ecstatic that he is alive don't condone him disappearing and not making provision for the support of his children but, then again, we don't know the circumstances that led to him taking off. He may very well be suffering from a mental health problem, in which case, I don't hold it against him.

I just hope whatever it was, can be resolved and that he can go on to become an integral part of his children's lives (if not for his sake but for theirs). JMHO.

Bolding is mine. Very well said Leanne.

imo

[Musterion]

I know I'm not alone when I say that I googled almost every day looking for any sign of life, hoping I would find it. I know others looked for any articles they could find. Speaking of, the last I looked on the Publicis site I did not see where they made any type of announcement. Did I just miss it?

There are some sites I wished I'd never googled!!! One of them, I'm sure gave my then laptop a virus. Gulp! At least I now have a new Mac!

I didn't find anything directly from Publicis. But, I did find this from MediaBistro:

http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/news/missing_ad_man_found_alive_and_well_double_life_ma y_have_lead_to_disappearance_142655.asp

I respect that they said 'may' have led to his disappearance. But, they also state that there were 'countless rescue searches'. Which, I don't remember.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

There are some sites I wished I'd never googled!!! One of them, I'm sure gave my then laptop a virus. Gulp! At least I now have a new Mac!

I didn't find anything directly from Publicis. But, I did find this from MediaBistro:

http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/news/missing_ad_man_found_alive_and_well_double_life_ma y_have_lead_to_disappearance_142655.asp

I respect that they said 'may' have led to his disappearance. But, they also state that there were 'countless rescue searches'. Which, I don't remember.

IMO.
M.

Thanks M - yeah I don't remember countless searches - as I've said before I was made to feel like an idiot for even suggesting they search for Nicholas. Everyone had an excuse for why it couldn't be done.

[Shelby1]

There are some sites I wished I'd never googled!!! One of them, I'm sure gave my then laptop a virus. Gulp! At least I now have a new Mac!

I didn't find anything directly from Publicis. But, I did find this from MediaBistro:

http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/news/missing_ad_man_found_alive_and_well_double_life_ma y_have_lead_to_disappearance_142655.asp

I respect that they said 'may' have led to his disappearance. But, they also state that there were 'countless rescue searches'. Which, I don't remember.

IMO.
M.


"Countless rescue searches"?????? OMG. If CW was the mod of Media Bistro she'd need a link for that...and she'd never get it.

[Musterion]

From reading a lot of posts since Nicholas was found, it is my opinion that we have a lot of bitter and twisted females posting here. Those of us wsho have been absolutely ecstatic that he is alive don't condone him disappearing and not making provision for the support of his children but, then again, we don't know the circumstances that led to him taking off. He may very well be suffering from a mental health problem, in which case, I don't hold it against him.

I just hope whatever it was, can be resolved and that he can go on to become an integral part of his children's lives (if not for his sake but for theirs). JMHO.

Hi Leanne,

Very well said.

Joy that someone is not dead does not equal condoning not providing for his children.

Circumstances, IMO, do matter. I was talking about this earlier today, even in a court of law we have various degrees of guilt/punishment depending on the circumstances of the crime. Murder to manslaughter. Intentional or not. Premeditated or not.

We haven't heard why Nicholas left his home and his life. Wanting to know why doesn't take away from the hurt that his children have suffered. It doesn't take away compassion or pain felt for them.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

"Countless rescue searches"?????? OMG. If CW was the mod of Media Bistro she'd need a link for that...and she'd never get it.

LOL! You're right about that Shelby!!!!!

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

"Countless rescue searches"?????? OMG. If CW was the mod of Media Bistro she'd need a link for that...and she'd never get it.

LOL Shelby so true

[Musterion]

Thanks M - yeah I don't remember countless searches - as I've said before I was made to feel like an idiot for even suggesting they search for Nicholas. Everyone had an excuse for why it couldn't be done.

You were! And, how long into him missing did those excuses come flying?

IMO.
M.

[Shelby1]

Hi Leanne,

Very well said.

Joy that someone is not dead does not equal condoning not providing for his children.

Circumstances, IMO, do matter. I was talking about this earlier today, even in a court of law we have various degrees of guilt/punishment depending on the circumstances of the crime. Murder to manslaughter. Intentional or not. Premeditated or not.

We haven't heard why Nicholas left his home and his life. Wanting to know why doesn't take away from the hurt that his children have suffered. It doesn't take away compassion or pain felt for them.

IMO.
M.
Good evening, Musterion,

I know that I quote your posts quite often, but it's because you have such a gift. When you write, you express your feelings perfectly.

I could not agree more with what you just said.

[RainyNiteNTx]

LOL! You're right about that Shelby!!!!!

IMO.
M.

Remember - there were too many places to look - too much water - too much dense brush. Even the sheriff said he didn't know where to look.:rolleyes:

[RainyNiteNTx]

You were! And, how long into him missing did those excuses come flying?

IMO.
M.

Immediately, but that didn't stop me from bringing it up over and over and over again - guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

[SilverDove]

Thanks M - yeah I don't remember countless searches - as I've said before I was made to feel like an idiot for even suggesting they search for Nicholas. Everyone had an excuse for why it couldn't be done.

Now we find out that a lot of money was save by not doing those expensive searches since he wouldn't have been found searching the lake and parks.

Searches that made sense were done. http://www.seattlepi.com/local/351639_missing17__web.html Off the wall stuff wasn't.

[SilverDove]

Remember - there were too many places to look - too much water - too much dense brush. Even the sheriff said he didn't know where to look.:rolleyes:

Turns out he was right after all.

Eta Maybe they knew what they were talking about all along.

[Shelby1]

Immediately, but that didn't stop me from bringing it up over and over and over again - guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

You were/are a trooper for taking the abuse that you did.

I firmly believe that it's your--and all of our--questions, searching and never giving up that led to knowing that Nicholas is alive.

One thing that continues to nag at me is that I hope that Nicholas has the privacy that he needs. And, I hope that Christine, her new husband and the kids have the privacy that they need.

[Shelby1]

Now we find out that a lot of money was save by not doing those expensive searches since he wouldn't have been found searching the lake and parks.

Searches that made sense were done. http://www.seattlepi.com/local/351639_missing17__web.html Off the wall stuff wasn't.


Thank goodness, in this case, he's found alive.

[Shelby1]

Turns out he was right after all.

Eta Maybe they knew what they were talking about all along.

Yes, maybe they did.

Either way, I'm happy Nicholas is safe.

[SilverDove]

You were/are a trooper for taking the abuse that you did.

I firmly believe that it's your--and all of our--questions, searching and never giving up that led to knowing that Nicholas is alive.

One thing that continues to nag at me is that I hope that Nicholas has the privacy that he needs. And, I hope that Christine, her new husband and the kids have the privacy that they need.

I would love to know what information it was that you sent to LE that caused them to be able to find Nicholas. I haven't seen anywhere that they said that info and questions from the boards help to find them. Seems that most of the info I saws was that he had to be dead.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Now we find out that a lot of money was save by not doing those expensive searches since he wouldn't have been found searching the lake and parks.

Searches that made sense were done. http://www.seattlepi.com/local/351639_missing17__web.html Off the wall stuff wasn't.

Easy to say now - hindsight is 20/20. At the time though, it might have been prudent to take a look at things more seriously, just like other LE agencies do with other missing people. I've never heard another LE agency say they don't know where to search. IMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

I would love to know what information it was that you sent to LE that caused them to be able to find Nicholas. I haven't seen anywhere that they said that info and questions from the boards help to find them. Seems that most of the info I saws was that he had to be dead.

A lot of us feared he was dead, but we searched with the resources we had, looking for a live person.

[SilverDove]

Easy to say now - hindsight is 20/20. At the time though, it might have been prudent to take a look at things more seriously, just like other LE agencies do with other missing people. I've never heard another LE agency say they don't know where to search. IMO

Thank goodness they had the sense not to waste money and still found him. They knew they had no evidence of foul play and kept up the search for a live person.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Thank goodness they had the sense not to waste money and still found him. They knew they had no evidence of foul play and kept up the search for a live person.

Hmmmmm I remember them saying they didn't know if he walked away or met with foul play.

[Shelby1]

I would love to know what information it was that you sent to LE that caused them to be able to find Nicholas. I haven't seen anywhere that they said that info and questions from the boards help to find them. Seems that most of the info I saws was that he had to be dead.

I didn't say that I sent any information.

I believe that it was the interest in finding Nicholas that led to him being put on the cold case list in King county.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I didn't say that I sent any information.

I believe that it was the interest in finding Nicholas that led to him being put on the cold case list in King county.

I know they were shocked at the public interest, so I agree with you Shelby.

[Musterion]

I didn't say that I sent any information.

I believe that it was the interest in finding Nicholas that led to him being put on the cold case list in King county.

Hi Shelby and thank you for your kind words above. I've enjoyed posting with you, very much!

What you are clarifying to SD is an example of what has gone on in this case, IMO. Misunderstanding or not reading what is written or posted. Not intentional, I believe, many times. But, nonetheless, it has happened. One word can change the context. Which can change viewpoints.

That is why it is, IMO, good to question and keep questioning until understanding comes.

All JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I know they were shocked at the public interest, so I agree with you Shelby.

Why do you think they were shocked?

IMO.
M.

[Starkist]

Why do you think they were shocked?

IMO.
M.

This story from the beginning had more twists and turns in it than a pretzel factory!

[Shelby1]

Why do you think they were shocked?

IMO.
M.


http://www.b-townblog.com/2009/11/09/breaking-missing-man-nicholas-francisco-found-alive-in-another-state-living-under-a-new-name/

Sgt. John Urquhart of the King County Sheriff’s Department reported Monday (Nov. 9th) that Nicholas Francisco, a SeaTac man who went missing in Feb. 2008, has been found alive and well, living in another state, and under a new name.

Francisco, 28 at the time, told colleagues at a Seattle ad agency on Feb. 13, 2008 that he would be heading to a local Safeway and then the Southcenter/Tukwila Costco before going home to his pregnant wife and two children to bake cookies in SeaTac.

Francisco’s car was found a few days later abandoned at a condominium complex in Federal Way, and an extensive investigation was conducted to see if he had been a victim of foul play.

Nothing turned up, and subsequently his wife, Christine, filed for divorce, citing “willful abandonment that continues for a period of time” and a “history of acts of domestic violence … or an assault or sexual assault which causes grievous bodily harm or the fear of such harm” as her reasons.

Christine has a daughter, 4, and a son, 2, and was also pregnant at the time (meaning she has three kids now).

Last week detectives developed information that he was in fact alive, had changed his name and was living outside of Washington.

“Since he did nothing illegal and this case is basically closed, we won’t reveal where he was found,” Urquhart said to The B-Town Blog. “But let me tell you – there was something incredibly unique about this guy that made bloggers go crazy. In all my years, I have never seen such a reaction. I’m glad this case is closed.”

And yes, the King County Sheriff’s Department has indeed closed their investigation.

BBM

[RainyNiteNTx]

Why do you think they were shocked?

IMO.
M.

When you think about Fale who went missing at the same time, as opposed to Nicholas going missing, there is no comparison in the interest. I think that is why they were shocked and probably a little unprepared for it. I think the public interest was generated due to the case being on national television - NG and GVS, America's Most Wanted, etc.

[RainyNiteNTx]

http://www.b-townblog.com/2009/11/09/breaking-missing-man-nicholas-francisco-found-alive-in-another-state-living-under-a-new-name/

Sgt. John Urquhart of the King County Sheriff’s Department reported Monday (Nov. 9th) that Nicholas Francisco, a SeaTac man who went missing in Feb. 2008, has been found alive and well, living in another state, and under a new name.

Francisco, 28 at the time, told colleagues at a Seattle ad agency on Feb. 13, 2008 that he would be heading to a local Safeway and then the Southcenter/Tukwila Costco before going home to his pregnant wife and two children to bake cookies in SeaTac.

Francisco’s car was found a few days later abandoned at a condominium complex in Federal Way, and an extensive investigation was conducted to see if he had been a victim of foul play.

Nothing turned up, and subsequently his wife, Christine, filed for divorce, citing “willful abandonment that continues for a period of time” and a “history of acts of domestic violence … or an assault or sexual assault which causes grievous bodily harm or the fear of such harm” as her reasons.

Christine has a daughter, 4, and a son, 2, and was also pregnant at the time (meaning she has three kids now).

Last week detectives developed information that he was in fact alive, had changed his name and was living outside of Washington.

“Since he did nothing illegal and this case is basically closed, we won’t reveal where he was found,” Urquhart said to The B-Town Blog. “But let me tell you – there was something incredibly unique about this guy that made bloggers go crazy. In all my years, I have never seen such a reaction. I’m glad this case is closed.”

And yes, the King County Sheriff’s Department has indeed closed their investigation.

BBM

(bbm)
He was living outside of Washington? I thought he was in California. Does he mean in a Washington suburb or what?

[Starkist]

Calif is outside of Wash.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Calif is outside of Wash.

LOL I know, but the way it read, it sounded like it was a suburb or something - not another state.

[Musterion]

Easy to say now - hindsight is 20/20. At the time though, it might have been prudent to take a look at things more seriously, just like other LE agencies do with other missing people. I've never heard another LE agency say they don't know where to search. IMO

In the article that SD posted LE is quoted as saying:

"Literally, there is no place to search," Urquhart said."

The article was published only three days after Nicholas went missing. Really, it is astounding to make such a statement, only three days after a person is reported missing.

Odd.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

When you think about Fale who went missing at the same time, as opposed to Nicholas going missing, there is no comparison in the interest. I think that is why they were shocked and probably a little unprepared for it. I think the public interest was generated due to the case being on national television - NG and GVS, America's Most Wanted, etc.

Your so right, other then the attention started before it went on national television. In fact I think it got national attention because of the Internet buzz.

There are men, woman, and children who go missing and no one pays attention. For some reason this guy got it all. Take a look at Cheri's board, hundreds of missing persons but only a couple of of them are ever even talked about. There are people who don't even get a thread. Same here there are people with only one or two posts. Sad in someways that all the attention went to a man who appears to have walked away on his own, but at least he was found even if he did or didn't want to be.

[Musterion]

http://www.b-townblog.com/2009/11/09/breaking-missing-man-nicholas-francisco-found-alive-in-another-state-living-under-a-new-name/

Sgt. John Urquhart of the King County Sheriff’s Department reported Monday (Nov. 9th) that Nicholas Francisco, a SeaTac man who went missing in Feb. 2008, has been found alive and well, living in another state, and under a new name.

Francisco, 28 at the time, told colleagues at a Seattle ad agency on Feb. 13, 2008 that he would be heading to a local Safeway and then the Southcenter/Tukwila Costco before going home to his pregnant wife and two children to bake cookies in SeaTac.

Francisco’s car was found a few days later abandoned at a condominium complex in Federal Way, and an extensive investigation was conducted to see if he had been a victim of foul play.

Nothing turned up, and subsequently his wife, Christine, filed for divorce, citing “willful abandonment that continues for a period of time” and a “history of acts of domestic violence … or an assault or sexual assault which causes grievous bodily harm or the fear of such harm” as her reasons.

Christine has a daughter, 4, and a son, 2, and was also pregnant at the time (meaning she has three kids now).

Last week detectives developed information that he was in fact alive, had changed his name and was living outside of Washington.

“Since he did nothing illegal and this case is basically closed, we won’t reveal where he was found,” Urquhart said to The B-Town Blog. “But let me tell you – there was something incredibly unique about this guy that made bloggers go crazy. In all my years, I have never seen such a reaction. I’m glad this case is closed.”

And yes, the King County Sheriff’s Department has indeed closed their investigation.

BBM

He is right about that. There is something incredibly unique about Nicholas. And this whole case.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

In the article that SD posted LE is quoted as saying:

"Literally, there is no place to search," Urquhart said."

The article was published only three days after Nicholas went missing. Really, it is astounding to make such a statement, only three days after a person is reported missing.

Odd.

IMO.
M.

I know - its something I never could wrap my mind around.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Your so right, other then the attention started before it went on national television. In fact I think it got national attention because of the Internet buzz.

There are men, woman, and children who go missing and no one pays attention. For some reason this guy got it all. Take a look at Cheri's board, hundreds of missing persons but only a couple of of them are ever even talked about. There are people who don't even get a thread. Same here there are people with only one or two posts. Sad in someways that all the attention went to a man who appears to have walked away on his own, but at least he was found even if he did or didn't want to be.

I don't know what makes one case stand out as opposed to another. I don't remember Fale even having a thread.

[SeattleEddie]

There is definitely something unique about the man. I hope he writes a book and tells the world his side of the story. My guess, though, is that he has absolutely no interest in the media frezy.

[Shelby1]

I don't know what makes one case stand out as opposed to another. I don't remember Fale even having a thread.

My guess is that if the spouse that's missing, or the spouse of a missing person is pregnant, that sparks a deep emotion from a lot of people--including me--to find the missing person. Laci Peterson, for example. Bless her, and Conner.

[Musterion]

LOL I know, but the way it read, it sounded like it was a suburb or something - not another state.

It really did!

IMO.
M.

[need2no]

There is definitely something unique about the man. I hope he writes a book and tells the world his side of the story. My guess, though, is that he has absolutely no interest in the media frezy.

I would love to read a book written by Nicholas, but I doubt he will write one. My guess is he'd prefer to tell his children the whole story in private when they are old enough to understand, rather than having them read about it in a tell-all book.

My heart just breaks for those children. :sad:

[Musterion]

My guess is that if the spouse that's missing, or the spouse of a missing person is pregnant, that sparks a deep emotion from a lot of people--including me--to find the missing person. Laci Peterson, for example. Bless her, and Conner.

That's a good point, Shelby.

There was intrigue from it being Valentine's Eve, as well, IMO.

A young graphic artist in the heart of Seattle, good looking, by all accounts wonderful, warm and funny going home to, allegedly, bake cookies with his little girl. Going home to a little boy and a pregnant wife, too.

The whole package wrapped together may have tugged at the heartstrings of many people who, otherwise, might just lift a prayer for the missing person.

IMO.
M.

[Postergeist]

"Countless rescue searches"?????? OMG. If CW was the mod of Media Bistro she'd need a link for that...and she'd never get it.

Hey ya Shelby- haven't read page 2 yet of the new thread but have to say, I was pretty shocked with the news this week where it was stated that there had been searches done by the Green River!

huh? I sure didn't remember that- but IRRC it was in one of the news articles from *this* week- was that something they just kept close to the vest last year, or am I suffering from CRS on that.

[Musterion]

I would love to read a book written by Nicholas, but I doubt he will write one. My guess is he'd prefer to tell his children the whole story in private when they are old enough to understand, rather than having them read about it in a tell-all book.

My heart just breaks for those children. :sad:

Mine, too, N2.

Somehow if someone feels that they need to abandon their life instead of enduring the fall out of initiating a divorce, it seems they might be more inclined to remain silent from anything said about them that may be wrong. Just speculation.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

That's a good point, Shelby.

There was intrigue from it being Valentine's Eve, as well, IMO.

A young graphic artist in the heart of Seattle, good looking, by all accounts wonderful, warm and funny going home to, allegedly, bake cookies with his little girl. Going home to a little boy and a pregnant wife, too.

The whole package wrapped together may have tugged at the heartstrings of many people who, otherwise, might just lift a prayer for the missing person.

IMO.
M.

I have to agree 100% with you on this and when the story started to fall apart people went after the wife not wanting to give up on the whole package. So since someone had to pay it was the wife.

[Postergeist]

He is right about that. There is something incredibly unique about Nicholas. And this whole case.

IMO.
M.

Hi ya M- when I read that comment and an older one the Sgt. had made, my take was in this case- he was leaving out another player in that- the one that the media saw and made many posts. Similar to how the Anthony case down in Florida- it just kept growing after the primary person was jailed, her family just gave more eyebrow raising that any other family I've seen in recent years of a MP case.

imo

[Postergeist]

My guess is that if the spouse that's missing, or the spouse of a missing person is pregnant, that sparks a deep emotion from a lot of people--including me--to find the missing person. Laci Peterson, for example. Bless her, and Conner.

And with Laci, that too happened close to a holiday, Christmas- she just captured my heart with her beautiful happy smile and those darling dimples. I was just speaking of her today with a friend of mine in Cali.

God rest her and Conner's souls.

[Musterion]

I have to agree 100% with you on this and when the story started to fall apart people went after the wife not wanting to give up on the whole package. So since someone had to pay it was the wife.

I remember, from the beginning, most of us were trying to, delicately, inquire if it was even minutely possible that Nicholas could have left.

The package presented wasn't necessarily accepted by all, IMO.

I think there are broken hearts all the way around in this case. Everyone is paying in some way. And, I hope they all will allow healing to come.

IMO.
M.

[Postergeist]

There is definitely something unique about the man. I hope he writes a book and tells the world his side of the story. My guess, though, is that he has absolutely no interest in the media frezy.

One of my questions is about the car- just like in the Casey Anthony case...did he plan to abandon it or was it towed before he could retrieve it?

Just going on memory, I thought there were witnesses that stated they had seen the car moved around, in different parking spots. Since LE didn't put surveillance on it to see just WHO was driving it and towed it so soon, think that will be another of many unanswered questions.

IRRC, it was said there'd be "no reason" for the car to be there, that he didn't "know anybody" from that complex or something like that.

imo

[Starkist]

One of my questions is about the car- just like in the Casey Anthony case...did he plan to abandon it or was it towed before he could retrieve it?

Just going on memory, I thought there were witnesses that stated they had seen the car moved around, in different parking spots. Since LE didn't put surveillance on it to see just WHO was driving it and towed it so soon, think that will be another of many unanswered questions.

IRRC, it was said there'd be "no reason" for the car to be there, that he didn't "know anybody" from that complex or something like that.
imo

BBM

In my unanswered letter to KCSO, I asked why they would take that statement at face value as I certainly do not know everyone my son knows nor does he know everyone I know. I stated the vehicle should have been watched for at least a couple of hours to see who was driving it. Evidently LE doesn't like when other LE personnel suggest doing something to help their case. However IMO, had they watched it, they may have "found" Nick way sooner. :glare:

[SeattleEddie]

One of my questions is about the car- just like in the Casey Anthony case...did he plan to abandon it or was it towed before he could retrieve it?

Just going on memory, I thought there were witnesses that stated they had seen the car moved around, in different parking spots. Since LE didn't put surveillance on it to see just WHO was driving it and towed it so soon, think that will be another of many unanswered questions.

IRRC, it was said there'd be "no reason" for the car to be there, that he didn't "know anybody" from that complex or something like that.

imo

Since it's very difficult to get long-distance transportation from Federal Way, I would guess that he was at that apartment complex for a specific purpose. IF his intention was to move on to California, it would have been so easy to get to the train or bus station from his work on Queen Ann. Or, to get to the airport before making it all the way south to Federal Way.

What would he be doing at the complex in Federal Way? Maybe something connected to a church? Just a guess, and nothing derogatory intended here. All due respect to Nicholas. IMO he was not doing anything untoward.

[need2no]

BBM

In my unanswered letter to KCSO, I asked why they would take that statement at face value as I certainly do not know everyone my son knows nor does he know everyone I know. I stated the vehicle should have been watched for at least a couple of hours to see who was driving it. Evidently LE doesn't like when other LE personnel suggest doing something to help their case. However IMO, had they watched it, they may have "found" Nick way sooner. :glare:


I never understood the urgency to move the car so quickly. Even if they suspected murder (though there were no signs of anything being amiss in or around the car), it just made no sense not to leave it there and put secret surveillance on the car at least for a day.

[Postergeist]

BBM

In my unanswered letter to KCSO, I asked why they would take that statement at face value as I certainly do not know everyone my son knows nor does he know everyone I know. I stated the vehicle should have been watched for at least a couple of hours to see who was driving it. Evidently LE doesn't like when other LE personnel suggest doing something to help their case. However IMO, had they watched it, they may have "found" Nick way sooner. :glare:

That certainly would've been wonderful if something would've come of that all those many months ago. I don't think it was ever revealed if there were surv. cameras at either the complex or the ATM that LE checked either and if something was found on them.

I can think of 2 MP near my area where LE not only had video, they aired it on tv (one a male, later found to have committed suicide, one a female, still missing- videos were from a gas station and workplace parking lot).

Hopefully Starkist this particular LE unit will maybe change some of their tactics with the next MP case they have to deal with.

imo

[SilverDove]

Since it's very difficult to get long-distance transportation from Federal Way, I would guess that he was at that apartment complex for a specific purpose. IF his intention was to move on to California, it would have been so easy to get to the train or bus station from his work on Queen Ann. Or, to get to the airport before making it all the way south to Federal Way.

What would he be doing at the complex in Federal Way? Maybe something connected to a church? Just a guess, and nothing derogatory intended here. All due respect to Nicholas. IMO he was not doing anything untoward.

Nothing untoward other then leaving his wife and not letting anyone know. More likely some friends nothing wrong with that then a church. I can't see a church covering for a missing man. Churches give sanctuary but that is within the church and they don't lie about it.

Since the car was being moved or so it was said on the tv report I saw about the car being found I think the most likely thing would be he was driving it.

[SilverDove]

I never understood the urgency to move the car so quickly. Even if they suspected murder (though there were no signs of anything being amiss in or around the car), it just made no sense not to leave it there and put secret surveillance on the car at least for a day.

I think it was the same reason they never came straight out and said they thought he had walked way because if on some off chance he was dead it wouldn't be good.

With the car if he was dead in the trunk or just injured and later died in the trunk it would be really bad.

[Postergeist]

Since it's very difficult to get long-distance transportation from Federal Way, I would guess that he was at that apartment complex for a specific purpose. IF his intention was to move on to California, it would have been so easy to get to the train or bus station from his work on Queen Ann. Or, to get to the airport before making it all the way south to Federal Way.

What would he be doing at the complex in Federal Way? Maybe something connected to a church? Just a guess, and nothing derogatory intended here. All due respect to Nicholas. IMO he was not doing anything untoward.

Thanks for replying SE- would you know if there was a local city bus that would stop at or near that complex in FW?

IMO, since we never heard of any live sighting tips from the area after his 'disappearance' I'm thinking he headed to CA fairly quickly then. Unless he wore several disguises before heading out.

(ala Scott Peterson, OJ, Cesar Laurean, Run Away Bride... who either changed appearance, altered hair color, were found with disguises, etc.)

:shrug:

imo

[SeattleEddie]

I never understood the urgency to move the car so quickly. Even if they suspected murder (though there were no signs of anything being amiss in or around the car), it just made no sense not to leave it there and put secret surveillance on the car at least for a day.

A-friggin-men, sister!!! WHY didn't they?!

[need2no]

That certainly would've been wonderful if something would've come of that all those many months ago. I don't think it was ever revealed if there were surv. cameras at either the complex or the ATM that LE checked either and if something was found on them.

I can think of 2 MP near my area where LE not only had video, they aired it on tv (one a male, later found to have committed suicide, one a female, still missing- videos were from a gas station and workplace parking lot).

Hopefully Starkist this particular LE unit will maybe change some of their tactics with the next MP case they have to deal with.

imo


Hey Postie!

I just read an article today that said surveillance had been checked, I didn't remember reading that in the past, but did recall the rest of the article-lol. Let me see if I can track it down again.

BRB

[SeattleEddie]

Thanks for replying SE- would you know if there was a local city bus that would stop at or near that complex in FW?

IMO, since we never heard of any live sighting tips from the area after his 'disappearance' I'm thinking he headed to CA fairly quickly then. Unless he wore several disguises before heading out.

(ala Scott Peterson, OJ, Cesar Laurean, Run Away Bride... who either changed appearance, altered hair color, were found with disguises, etc.)

:shrug:

imo

There is a bus that goes right in front of the apartment - #179.

[SeattleEddie]

There is no evidence that he did not let anyone know he was leaving.

[Starkist]

That certainly would've been wonderful if something would've come of that all those many months ago. I don't think it was ever revealed if there were surv. cameras at either the complex or the ATM that LE checked either and if something was found on them.

I can think of 2 MP near my area where LE not only had video, they aired it on tv (one a male, later found to have committed suicide, one a female, still missing- videos were from a gas station and workplace parking lot).

Hopefully Starkist this particular LE unit will maybe change some of their tactics with the next MP case they have to deal with.

imo

The dear Sgt. appears as though he is from the LE "old school". (That 70s brown suit he wore in the interview also needs to go) I am thinking new blood and newer tactics and perhaps a bit of actually caring for the MPs they're looking for would be a real start. IMO of course.

[SilverDove]

There is no evidence that he did not let anyone know he was leaving.

Well true he could have told his parents or some friends but there is no evidence that he did tell anyone.

Also if you are trying to say that Christine might have known that makes no sense because if he had bothered to tell her then it would seem that he would also tell his employer and collected his pay. Also there would have been no reason to keep it a secret from his parents and friends. If he had told that many people then one of them would have said something. Also I'm sure if he had told Christine he would have called his parents who everyone has said were very christian and would have called the police to stop the search.

So I really don't see any reason to believe he told anyone other then maybe the people who helped him. Yes I also believe someone had to have helped him. Unless he parked the car at the condos and then took a bus to somewhere to .... well that doesn't make sense either.

So I figure the only people who knew he was leaving would be the ones who help him, but I'm not sure we will ever know who they were.

[need2no]

Postie-

Here's what I found which is not very informative, to say the least.

Man's disappearance draws online sleuths


"Jean in Kentucky" wondered if police had checked security cameras. (They did.)

http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php?wac=08M0002895

:shrug:

[need2no]

Oops, posted the wrong link above, and edit button not working.

The correct link in re: surveillance is:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nicolebrodeur/2004440078_brodeur27m.html

[SilverDove]

The dear Sgt. appears as though he is from the LE "old school". (That 70s brown suit he wore in the interview also needs to go) I am thinking new blood and newer tactics and perhaps a bit of actually caring for the MPs they're looking for would be a real start. IMO of course.

Washington state must have a balanced budget. If they had spent more money on looking for Nicholas there would have been less money to use looking for real missing people and investigate real crimes. Maybe some day they could make it a crime and charge people who just walk away for the search. If this happened fewer people would do it and they could collect back some of the wasted money.

[Postergeist]

There is a bus that goes right in front of the apartment - #179.

ty SE for that bit of info. The city bus then could have been another mode of transportation for him to take, and from there- if he could've bought a bus ticket to get him to his new location.


(fwiw- Cesar Laurean, once on the FBI's Most Wanted List, did travel by bus, since apprehended in Mexico for the murder of Lance Corporal Maria Lauterbach)

[Postergeist]

Oops, posted the wrong link above, and edit button not working.

The correct link in re: surveillance is:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nicolebrodeur/2004440078_brodeur27m.html

ty for the link N2N- pretty vague tho, since it wasn't clear just what tapes were looked at (near his workplace, where the $ was taken out, at the apt complex, at the grocery stores?)

I also noted that reporter apparently isn't in the know of many crime cases and suspicious deaths- her 'they are?' comment about men missing that are found near water- well, maybe she'll find time to read up on the Smiley Face Killers, or any board that lists MP where they are found drowned.

However, interesting what the old May '08 article did say-

Lisa from Los Angeles offered to put up "Missing" posters there, "because it is such a hub for missing people." (It is?)

and what was posted on here about LA.

:read:

imo

[MystryPhobia]

A-friggin-men, sister!!! WHY didn't they?!

It wouldn't have been smart to just leave it there. How did they know that something wouldn't be found in the car.. like.. say.. for instance.. Nicholas? Or that perhaps there was evidence in the car of a crime and they would need that relatively quickly to determine where Nicholas was.. just in case he was still alive somewhere and the car held those clues. They had NO idea what they were dealing with at that point. If they had waited and he was alive in the trunk but they did nothing for a few hours or a couple of days in "hopes" that someone might come back to it.. they would have been accused of something entirely different. If they had found information in the car that lead to where he was being held.. and they sat on the car hoping someone would come back to it.. and in the mean time.. he was killed.. again.. they would have been accused of not doing their jobs correctly.

Seems to me.. they did what they thought best.. given the circumstances. A pregnant wife.. small children.. a dad that always comes home.. is very predictable.. who goes missing.. his car is found.. you take it in and hope that it leads you to what happened to him.

Hindsight is 20/20.. knowing what we know now.. yeah.. I would bet if they had waiting.. this case would have been cleared up almost immediately.. but they didn't have the knowledge that they do now.

[MystryPhobia]

I have not spoken to Christine in months.. anyone who has said otherwise.. is just not telling the truth. I have never met Christine IRL EVER. I do not claim to understand every move that Christine has decided to make in this journey she has been on but I did feel a kinship with her because of similar things that we have both been through. I felt a very strong empathy for her.. in regards to being pregnant and facing the prospect of giving birth to and bring that child home.. alone. I have been there. I have had my world crushed because of another's lies and secrets... I felt and still feel a strong sense of compassion for her.. for what I believe that she found out.. that she was clueless about. Am I a "bitter and twisted woman"? Perhaps to some's definition.. I am. Is Christine bitter and twisted? Perhaps she is.. and can you blame her? Being a christian does not mean that you don't feel like every other human being. It doesn't mean you don't struggle with insecurities. That you don't get angry.. that you don't hurt... that your heart can not be broke. It certainly does not mean that you have to be strong all of the time. Christians feel the same things that everyone else does.. they sin and fall short.. just as everyone else does.

I did not know where Nicholas was nor whether he was alive or not. I was not part of any plot to smear his good name creating false information to put on the internet. I would never do that to anyone. I had my suspicions based on what I knew of the case.. that he had walked away.. but I also wavered because he was able to do it for so long. I had NO CLUE that he had been located til after most of you.. SD actually PM'd me about it.. Anyone who says any different is not telling the truth.

I believed that the detective had been looking into leads of a 'live' Nicholas, for some time. I just don't think he was willing to say that to us. He said the secret life stuff was discovered by him.. he didn't say Christine told him about it. Everyone always wanted verification from LE for everything but when it comes to this.. suddenly their word means nothing.. to those same people. This is a veteran detective.. I doubt he is easily manipulated and certainly not by a wife of a missing man.. when we all know they look at home FIRST. He said that he wasn't going to search Panther Lake or any of the other lakes around the area because they had no reason to believe Nicholas was in them. He told me that he wouldn't discourage people putting up posters but he wouldn't want to see me spending a bunch of my hard earned money on doing it. I think he was giving subtle clues as to what he thought might have happened.. but.. they had an obligation to continue looking for anything that might lead to him.. living or dead.. because no one could have been 100% sure either way.

I find it completely disheartening that now posters are going to turn on LE too. Somehow this has become about smearing everyone having anything to do with this case to protect Nicholas. Don't those people also deserve the same dignity and respect that is being requested of Nicholas?? Don't we all?

LE says that Nicholas was located "alive and well".. not sick.. not depressed.. no overwhelmed.. not mentally ill.. not mentally unstable.. not abused.. neglected.. in need of help.. etc. these are all things that would be checked when making contact with him. He is well. This is something to be happy about. He is ALIVE and WELL. Is working.. is functioning.. is able to even fight for what he believes to be fair for himself. What happens from here on out.. is between his family and him.. his children and him.. Christine and him... and is really none of our business.

There are so many.. truly.. missing people out there. All of this energy that is being wasted on proving who is right and wrong could really go to a much better cause... and to families that would truly appreciate it. I only wish that Lindsey's disappearance would get this many people fired up to help and protect her.

[RainyNiteNTx]

There is a bus that goes right in front of the apartment - #179.

City bus or a bus that will take you out of town/state?

[Postergeist]

For those that are still troubled by their own personal happenstances that drew them to this case and are still troubled by their past hurts and have felt hurt as well by this case,

I suggest some steps to take that may help you remedy the sadness and anger that a few have posted about, here are a few of the many links available to choose from-

Seek out an Emotions Anon. group in your area

http://www.eameeting.org/


Check with your employer’s EAP program to see what counseling would best benefit you

http://www.opm.gov/Employment_and_Benefits/worklife/healthwellness/EAP/

http://www.eap-sap.com/


Check out grief support groups/counseling

http://www.griefshare.org/

http://www.griefnet.org/


The United Way has ways to help, check out their site here-

http://www.211.org/


organizations that help with recovery after divorce

http://www.divorcecare.com/

http://love.ivillage.com/lnsproblems/lnsdivorce/0,,nv56,00.html


Anger help-

http://www.anger.org/?nav=what

http://ezinearticles.com/?Anger-Management-Groups---How-and-Where-To-Join-Them---A-Simple-Trick-Reveals-All&id=920467


Hoping that with help, healing and happiness will return to those troubled by their situation.

imo

:rose:

[RainyNiteNTx]

LE says that Nicholas was located "alive and well".. not sick.. not depressed.. no overwhelmed.. not mentally ill.. not mentally unstable.. not abused.. neglected.. in need of help.. etc. these are all things that would be checked when making contact with him. He is well. This is something to be happy about. He is ALIVE and WELL. Is working.. is functioning.. is able to even fight for what he believes to be fair for himself. What happens from here on out.. is between his family and him.. his children and him.. Christine and him... and is really none of our business.

There are so many.. truly.. missing people out there. All of this energy that is being wasted on proving who is right and wrong could really go to a much better cause... and to families that would truly appreciate it. I only wish that Lindsey's disappearance would get this many people fired up to help and protect her.


(respectfully snipped)
How could LE determine if someone was unhappy,depressed, overwhelmed or mentally unstable? I assume they could determine abuse or neglect (however that is missed in many cases even involving children). I just find that to be very assuming.

Yes, there are a lot of missing people out there already found (some, unfortunately deceased), some alive, and some not found. People continue to follow cases that they are drawn to. This one isn't any different in that regard IMO.

[SeattleEddie]

When LE says alive and "well" I think it means the person is breathing, not bleeding his/her guts out, and they probably ask him/her whether he/she is at their location under duress. I doubt they do a full-on psychological examination. IMO

the bus, Rainy, goes into downtown Seattle.

Thanks for the list of resources, Postie. I am sure it can be very helpful to many people.

[RainyNiteNTx]

When LE says alive and "well" I think it means the person is breathing, not bleeding his/her guts out, and they probably ask him/her whether he/she is at their location under duress. I doubt they do a full-on psychological examination. IMO

the bus, Rainy, goes into downtown Seattle.

Thanks for the list of resources, Postie. I am sure it can be very helpful to many people.

Thanks SE - I'm just trying to figure out why he would drive to the apartment complex to catch a bus (if he did) when he was closer to the bus station when he was at Publicis, right?

[SeattleEddie]

Thanks SE - I'm just trying to figure out why he would drive to the apartment complex to catch a bus (if he did) when he was closer to the bus station when he was at Publicis, right?

He could practically WALK to the bus station from Publicis = 1.5 miles.

http://www.mapquest.com/mq/5-HLXi

[KatieLady]

Thanks SE - I'm just trying to figure out why he would drive to the apartment complex to catch a bus (if he did) when he was closer to the bus station when he was at Publicis, right?

Just my opinion but I think he met someone there and left in their car. I think he was running "to" someone....not necessarily "away" from someone.

IMO

[Leanne Weich]

He is right about that. There is something incredibly unique about Nicholas. And this whole case.

IMO.
M.

I think it became such a big thing because of the human interest aspect of the case. You had a pregnant wife who professed her (almost) undying love for her husband (my interpretation of her interviews initially), a daughter waitiing for her daddy to come home to bake cookies with her and all the drama surrounding Christine's charity collection. JMHO

[RainyNiteNTx]

Just my opinion but I think he met someone there and left in their car. I think he was running "to" someone....not necessarily "away" from someone.

IMO

Could be. Talk about being 100% dependant on someone - no job, no clothes, no personal effects, no car - no identity.

[KatieLady]

Could be. Talk about being 100% dependant on someone - no job, no clothes, no personal effects, no car - no identity.

Yes.....and if true (what I surmise) it must have been someone he really, really trusted.

Unless he had set up an apartment filled it with clothes and bought a car before he left...he would have had nothing in Ca when he got there. IMO if he had done all of this in advance there would have been evidence of it.

I really think there was someone else......

[Musterion]

Could be. Talk about being 100% dependant on someone - no job, no clothes, no personal effects, no car - no identity.

Hi Rainy,

There are a couple of things that I'm remembering which might shed some light on Nicholas' leaving and the timing.

One is that, though unconfirmed I believe, he was seen at a storage unit the night he was reported missing. As it was said before, maybe that was a place where personal items were stored, that he intended to take with him to LA.

Two, didn't Nicholas have a conference he attended in LA not long before he actually left? If I am accurately remembering he may have made contacts at that point for a place to live.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

This was brought up a long time ago. It may be worth revisiting.

Nicholas' Dad and Mom (divorced) both live down in the Vancouver, WA area.

On 14 April 2008 there was a Nicholas M. Francisco listed on the Washington Courts as having a violation, I believe it was a traffic violation when it was further investigated. I don't have that information at my fingertips but will look for it.

I have wondered if this was Nicholas, even though it says Nicholas M. Francisco and not Nicholas S. Francisco.

2 Francisco, Nicholas M
Defendant Camas/washougal 43851 04-16-2008
3 Francisco, Nicholas M
Defendant Camas/washougal 43852 04-16-2008

http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.namelist

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi Rainy,

There are a couple of things that I'm remembering which might shed some light on Nicholas' leaving and the timing.

One is that, though unconfirmed I believe, he was seen at a storage unit the night he was reported missing. As it was said before, maybe that was a place where personal items were stored, that he intended to take with him to LA.

Two, didn't Nicholas have a conference he attended in LA not long before he actually left? If I am accurately remembering he may have made contacts at that point for a place to live.

IMO.
M.

Hey M - yes there were possible reported sightings of him at a storage unit close to where his car was found IIRC. But wouldn't Christine have noticed that some of his personal effects were gone from the house?

As for the conference I do remember someone talking about that, but I didn't get the impression that it was recent, but maybe it was.

[KatieLady]

Hey M - yes there were possible reported sightings of him at a storage unit close to where his car was found IIRC. But wouldn't Christine have noticed that some of his personal effects were gone from the house?

As for the conference I do remember someone talking about that, but I didn't get the impression that it was recent, but maybe it was.

Could it be that he had this planned for a long time and was slowly buying things to take with him? If he was doing that Christine would not have noticed anything missing from home.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Could it be that he had this planned for a long time and was slowly buying things to take with him? If he was doing that Christine would not have noticed anything missing from home.

Very possible, but according to her, things were wonderful in their marriage - how could he keep up a pretense for the amount of time I would assume it would take to get this done? How could you work all day and not be nervous as a cat? Reports from his coworkers said nothing was amiss with him that day.

[SeattleEddie]

This was brought up a long time ago. It may be worth revisiting.

Nicholas' Dad and Mom (divorced) both live down in the Vancouver, WA area.

On 14 April 2008 there was a Nicholas M. Francisco listed on the Washington Courts as having a violation, I believe it was a traffic violation when it was further investigated. I don't have that information at my fingertips but will look for it.

I have wondered if this was Nicholas, even though it says Nicholas M. Francisco and not Nicholas S. Francisco.

2 Francisco, Nicholas M
Defendant Camas/washougal 43851 04-16-2008
3 Francisco, Nicholas M
Defendant Camas/washougal 43852 04-16-2008

http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.namelist

IMO.
M.

Yes, I keep remembering this too.

[SeattleEddie]

Could someone remind me, is it against the law to file a missing-person report if someone is not missing? If so, is it a misdemeanor, or felony? Or just some kind of violation? Are there penalties associated? If someone files a missing-person report and subsequently learns that person is not missing, do they have a legal responsibility to redact the report? And also, are there fines, etc. associated with that situation?

I have always wondered about these details, not necessarily in regards to this case, but in general.

TIA

[MystryPhobia]

Could someone remind me, is it against the law to file a missing-person report if someone is not missing? If so, is it a misdemeanor, or felony? Or just some kind of violation? Are there penalties associated? If someone files a missing-person report and subsequently learns that person is not missing, do they have a legal responsibility to redact the report? And also, are there fines, etc. associated with that situation?

I have always wondered about these details, not necessarily in regards to this case, but in general.

TIA

False Reporting
Rev. Code §§ 26.44.060(4); 9A.20.021

A person who intentionally and in bad faith knowingly makes a false report of alleged abuse or neglect shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. Every person convicted of a misdemeanor shall be punished by one or both of the following:

Imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days
A fine of not more than $1,000


For regular "police report" filing, most reports require the complaintant to read and swear to their statement before signing.
Assuming that Christine signed a statement invovling the report of Nicholas' disappearance..

RCW 9A.72.050
Perjury and false swearing — Inconsistent statements — Degree of crime.

(1) Where, in the course of one or more official proceedings, a person makes inconsistent material statements under oath, the prosecution may proceed by setting forth the inconsistent statements in a single count alleging in the alternative that one or the other was false and known by the defendant to be false. In such case it shall not be necessary for the prosecution to prove which material statement was false but only that one or the other was false and known by the defendant to be false.

(2) The highest offense of which a person may be convicted in such an instance as set forth in subsection (1) of this section shall be determined by hypothetically assuming each statement to be false. If perjury of different degrees would be established by the making of the two statements, the person may only be convicted of the lesser degree. If perjury or false swearing would be established by the making of the two statements, the person may only be convicted of false swearing. For purposes of this section, no corroboration shall be required of either inconsistent statement.

This is interesting too..

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.62.010

[Starkist]

It wouldn't have been smart to just leave it there. How did they know that something wouldn't be found in the car.. like.. say.. for instance.. Nicholas? Or that perhaps there was evidence in the car of a crime and they would need that relatively quickly to determine where Nicholas was.. just in case he was still alive somewhere and the car held those clues. They had NO idea what they were dealing with at that point. If they had waited and he was alive in the trunk but they did nothing for a few hours or a couple of days in "hopes" that someone might come back to it.. they would have been accused of something entirely different. If they had found information in the car that lead to where he was being held.. and they sat on the car hoping someone would come back to it.. and in the mean time.. he was killed.. again.. they would have been accused of not doing their jobs correctly.

Seems to me.. they did what they thought best.. given the circumstances. A pregnant wife.. small children.. a dad that always comes home.. is very predictable.. who goes missing.. his car is found.. you take it in and hope that it leads you to what happened to him.

Hindsight is 20/20.. knowing what we know now.. yeah.. I would bet if they had waiting.. this case would have been cleared up almost immediately.. but they didn't have the knowledge that they do now.

The officers who surveil the vehicle are not the same officers investigating the case. So, that blows that theory out of the water. As a former LEO, I will always maintain they towed that vehicle way too soon.

[MystryPhobia]

The officers who surveil the vehicle are not the same officers investigating the case. So, that blows that theory out of the water. As a former LEO, I will always maintain they towed that vehicle way too soon.

That makes absolutely no sense Starkist. The officers who surveil the vehicle are not the same ones investigating the case? What does that have to do with anything and how does that blow any theory out of the water? I am not understanding what you are trying to say.

There was a missing man.. they had no idea if he was dead or alive or what evidence that car held. If they had waited.. something bad could have happened. Then you would still be calling what they did negligent. They could have checked the car and left it there but by the time they had checked it.. too much attention would have been drawn to the situation to think that someone might actually come back to the vehicle. Seems to me.. no matter what they did.. it would have been wrong to some. They couldn't win. IMO

[Starkist]

That makes absolutely no sense Starkist. The officers who surveil the vehicle are not the same ones investigating the case? What does that have to do with anything and how does that blow any theory out of the water? I am not understanding what you are trying to say.

There was a missing man.. they had no idea if he was dead or alive or what evidence that car held. If they had waited.. something bad could have happened. Then you would still be calling what they did negligent. They could have checked the car and left it there but by the time they had checked it.. too much attention would have been drawn to the situation to think that someone might actually come back to the vehicle. Seems to me.. no matter what they did.. it would have been wrong to some. They couldn't win. IMO

They did check the car. They should have left it after they checked it. The investigating officers do not sit there watching, they have other plainclothes detectives for that and they report their findings if any or call lead dets if there is any urgency, ie: someone using the vehicle shows up.

To say that the vehicle could not be watched because it would take the investigating officer away from doing his investigation is wrong. I have always maintained this opinion and always will.

[MystryPhobia]

They did check the car. They should have left it after they checked it. The investigating officers do not sit there watching, they have other plainclothes detectives for that and they report their findings if any or call lead dets if there is any urgency, ie: someone using the vehicle shows up.

To say that the vehicle could not be watched because it would take the investigating officer away from doing his investigation is wrong. I have always maintained this opinion and always will.
I never said that the detectives sit there and watch it. What I said was that they had to check the car out as soon as they found it since they had no idea what the circumstances were regarding his disappearance.. There was no quiet way to do that without most everyone around there knowing about the police activity... ie; blowing any cover of just leaving the car sit there after that.. with plain clothed officers sitting on it 24/7 for God knows how long... hoping someone might come back.

[SeattleEddie]

False Reporting
Rev. Code §§ 26.44.060(4); 9A.20.021

A person who intentionally and in bad faith knowingly makes a false report of alleged abuse or neglect shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. Every person convicted of a misdemeanor shall be punished by one or both of the following:

Imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days
A fine of not more than $1,000


For regular "police report" filing, most reports require the complaintant to read and swear to their statement before signing.
Assuming that Christine signed a statement invovling the report of Nicholas' disappearance..

RCW 9A.72.050
Perjury and false swearing — Inconsistent statements — Degree of crime.

(1) Where, in the course of one or more official proceedings, a person makes inconsistent material statements under oath, the prosecution may proceed by setting forth the inconsistent statements in a single count alleging in the alternative that one or the other was false and known by the defendant to be false. In such case it shall not be necessary for the prosecution to prove which material statement was false but only that one or the other was false and known by the defendant to be false.

(2) The highest offense of which a person may be convicted in such an instance as set forth in subsection (1) of this section shall be determined by hypothetically assuming each statement to be false. If perjury of different degrees would be established by the making of the two statements, the person may only be convicted of the lesser degree. If perjury or false swearing would be established by the making of the two statements, the person may only be convicted of false swearing. For purposes of this section, no corroboration shall be required of either inconsistent statement.

This is interesting too..

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.62.010

Thank you for checking into that, Mystery. Interesting.

I'm still not clear whether having made a report, the complainant is required legally to notify LE should the missing person be located. Did you discern that from the above?

[W_D_1]

Washington state must have a balanced budget. If they had spent more money on looking for Nicholas there would have been less money to use looking for real missing people and investigate real crimes. Maybe some day they could make it a crime and charge people who just walk away for the search. If this happened fewer people would do it and they could collect back some of the wasted money.

Make it a crime??? It is a person's right to walk away if they choose to do so. You may not like it but oh well. I don't want anyone, including the law, telling me I can't leave if I choose to. NO ONE should have the right to take away anyone's freedom.

[Cheri_G]

Could it be that he had this planned for a long time and was slowly buying things to take with him? If he was doing that Christine would not have noticed anything missing from home.

Perhaps... or maybe his initial intentions were not to leave the state but something compelled him to change his plans and do so.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Christine reported that Nicholas would call if he was going to be even 15 minutes late. Now what did he think would happen if he didn't show up at all? He knew that she knew approximately when he was leaving work, and where he was supposedly going (Costco) so that would narrow down when she should expect him home.



He had to know by the next morning that Publicis would be on the band wagon also, so why did he chance being caught by LE by parking his car in a public apartment complex? Why not leave immediately so to avoid the possibility of being caught? It just does not make sense to me.

[Maranatha]

I have never been in LE and I don't watch Law and Order. I can however use my common sense. Logistically speaking.. what you think should have happened would have been difficult and that is only if them checking the car for evidence or foul play... went unnoticed.. which I highly doubt it would. We are talking Federal Way here.. any police car coming into that area would have drawn attention immediately.

Hey Mystry, I don't know how you keep this up. You did more than anyone here to find Nicholas. I thank you for your perseverance.

Why some feel the need to show you such disrespect is beyond my understanding. If anyone I love ever goes missing, I'd be so thankful for an advocate such as yourself -- putting up posters and searching, much more than what others offered.

You walk your talk. :)

[Starkist]

I have never been in LE and I don't watch Law and Order. I can however use my common sense. Logistically speaking.. what you think should have happened would have been difficult and that is only if them checking the car for evidence or foul play... went unnoticed.. which I highly doubt it would. We are talking Federal Way here.. any police car coming into that area would have drawn attention immediately.

They shouldn't have sent in a marked car. That was not a smart move, if that was indeed what they did. Being they didn't know what they were actually investigating, a plainclothes det in an unmarked car should have been first in to survey the situation. It isn't difficult at all. That's the way we did it here with great success.

[boo]

ty for the link N2N- pretty vague tho, since it wasn't clear just what tapes were looked at (near his workplace, where the $ was taken out, at the apt complex, at the grocery stores?)

I also noted that reporter apparently isn't in the know of many crime cases and suspicious deaths- her 'they are?' comment about men missing that are found near water- well, maybe she'll find time to read up on the Smiley Face Killers, or any board that lists MP where they are found drowned.

However, interesting what the old May '08 article did say-



and what was posted on here about LA.

:read:

imo

Seems to me, "Lisa" in LA was mocked for making the statement that many a missing person heads for LA and yes, LA is a hub for missing persons. Looks to me like Lisa in L.A. may have been right.

Signed,
Lisa in L.A. :smile:

[Cheri_G]

Seems to me, "Lisa" in LA was mocked for making the statement that many a missing person heads for LA and yes, LA is a hub for missing persons. Looks to me like Lisa in L.A. may have been right.

Signed,
Lisa in L.A. :smile:

She was right and she should not have been advised otherwise.

[Musterion]

Christine reported that Nicholas would call if he was going to be even 15 minutes late. Now what did he think would happen if he didn't show up at all? He knew that she knew approximately when he was leaving work, and where he was supposedly going (Costco) so that would narrow down when she should expect him home.

He had to know by the next morning that Publicis would be on the band wagon also, so why did he chance being caught by LE by parking his car in a public apartment complex? Why not leave immediately so to avoid the possibility of being caught? It just does not make sense to me.

Rainy,

This is interesting.

Nicholas had to be intelligent enough to understand that if he didn't return home in a timely manner his wife would be concerned and call LE. He, also, had to know that not going in to Publicis the next morning would cause alarm and, more than likely, an investigation would take place to find out what had happened to him.

But, what appears to have happened is that he drove down to Federal Way, parked his car, stayed in the condos there for a few days, driving his car to various places where he could be identified, confronted and asked to explain his missing status.

Why would he risk that if he had been planning to go to California all along and start another life under an alias? It would seem that he would have just kept driving, through the night, to LA. And, getting rid of his car somehow so as not to be traced at all.

As always in this case, it isn't adding up.

IMO.
M.

[boo]

She was right and she should not have been advised otherwise.

Thank you, Cheri. Obviously, Nick had to be somewhere and L.A. made as much sense as anywhere else. I have no regrets about the signs that were hung and/or made. Maybe, just maybe, he even saw one of them.

[SeattleEddie]

Christine reported that Nicholas would call if he was going to be even 15 minutes late. Now what did he think would happen if he didn't show up at all? He knew that she knew approximately when he was leaving work, and where he was supposedly going (Costco) so that would narrow down when she should expect him home.



He had to know by the next morning that Publicis would be on the band wagon also, so why did he chance being caught by LE by parking his car in a public apartment complex? Why not leave immediately so to avoid the possibility of being caught? It just does not make sense to me.

hmmmm. This is a puzzle. I hadn't considered this before, but of course, it's absolutely clear this is another one of those things that just doesn't add up.

Looking back in retrospect, there are so many things that don't add up. Among them:

His mother saying "I hope he's not being persecuted."
Think about it. If you are a parent, can you imagine saying "I hope my child isn't being persecuted" if your young-adult child goes missing?

Going home to make cookies? The timeline doesn't add up, considering the time he left work and the time it would take to get to Costco, go shopping, and then get home before the children's bedtime. I know we discussed this so many times, but it seems clear, given the outcome, that baking cookies was not in the stars.

The phone calls.

And now this. Leaving the car at the Federal Way complex when he must have known (or did he?) that people were looking for him. The scenario that comes to mind is that he was injured? Or was he held against his will? Was he knocked out? Did someone kidnap him?

Just brainstorming, no ill intent or offense implied. Trying to figure it out...........

[Casspian]

Just my opinion but I think he met someone there and left in their car. I think he was running "to" someone....not necessarily "away" from someone.

IMO


That's what I thought too. It was actually a pretty good choice if he was leaving and didn't want to immediately be found. After all, they didn't find it for ~ 5 days. Also, I thought I had read that that was not an area anyone would have been looking for him and not on any route he would usually take/took that day. An apartment complex would be the near perfect place anyway as no one is really going to notice a different car sitting around. Maybe they would notice it after it hasn't been moved a while or if they parked in someone's assigned spot, but otherwise, no. If LE hadn't put out in the news what the car looked like and the license plate number, who knows how long it would have been before someone thought that car was out of place.

[Musterion]

hmmmm. This is a puzzle. I hadn't considered this before, but of course, it's absolutely clear this is another one of those things that just doesn't add up.

Looking back in retrospect, there are so many things that don't add up. Among them:

His mother saying "I hope he's not being persecuted."
Think about it. If you are a parent, can you imagine saying "I hope my child isn't being persecuted" if your young-adult child goes missing?

Going home to make cookies? The timeline doesn't add up, considering the time he left work and the time it would take to get to Costco, go shopping, and then get home before the children's bedtime. I know we discussed this so many times, but it seems clear, given the outcome, that baking cookies was not in the stars.

The phone calls.

And now this. Leaving the car at the Federal Way complex when he must have known (or did he?) that people were looking for him. The scenario that comes to mind is that he was injured? Or was he held against his will? Was he knocked out? Did someone kidnap him?

Just brainstorming, no ill intent or offense implied. Trying to figure it out...........

Hi SE,

What you're saying brought a question to my mind. Didn't LE say that there was a phone call made to or from Nicholas on his 'dead' cell phone right before he left work?

It was a huge secret. I guess it still is. Why?

It didn't lead them to where Nicholas was, because from all that I can glean LE was not looking into his disappearance after all.

IMO.
M.

[SeattleEddie]

Hi SE,

What you're saying brought a question to my mind. Didn't LE say that there was a phone call made to or from Nicholas on his 'dead' cell phone right before he left work?

It was a huge secret. I guess it still is. Why?

It didn't lead them to where Nicholas was, because from all that I can glean LE was not looking into his disappearance after all.

IMO.
M.

Hi Musterion,

Yes, IIRC, there was the phone call. One of the secrets.

Another secret: reason for leaving HMC
Another secret: bank where withdrawal was made (photo?)
another secret: who knew what and when
secret: online identities
secret: SOTU
secret: some other details
there were many secret words: i.e. persecuted, coward.

Among many others, and I don't include "secret life" in that #

It's one of the reasons people became interested in this case, IMO. Throwing a bunch of secrets out there like bread crumbs is sure to draw the public, as the drive to understand is human nature. Again, I don't mean "secret life" which IMO was a stand-in for the real secrets.
People get lost in a house of mirrors. We need solid ground, most of us.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Rainy,

This is interesting.

Nicholas had to be intelligent enough to understand that if he didn't return home in a timely manner his wife would be concerned and call LE. He, also, had to know that not going in to Publicis the next morning would cause alarm and, more than likely, an investigation would take place to find out what had happened to him.

But, what appears to have happened is that he drove down to Federal Way, parked his car, stayed in the condos there for a few days, driving his car to various places where he could be identified, confronted and asked to explain his missing status.

Why would he risk that if he had been planning to go to California all along and start another life under an alias? It would seem that he would have just kept driving, through the night, to LA. And, getting rid of his car somehow so as not to be traced at all.
As always in this case, it isn't adding up.

IMO.
M.

(bbm)
That was my thinking also. He had to know people would be looking for him, and people who lived at the apartments could call LE reporting seeing him and his car. :unsure:

[birdwatch]

Hi Musterion,

Yes, IIRC, there was the phone call. One of the secrets.

Another secret: reason for leaving HMC
Another secret: bank where withdrawal was made (photo?)
another secret: who knew what and when
secret: online identities
secret: SOTU
secret: some other details
there were many secret words: i.e. persecuted, coward.

Among many others, and I don't include "secret life" in that #

It's one of the reasons people became interested in this case, IMO. Throwing a bunch of secrets out there like bread crumbs is sure to draw the public, as the drive to understand is human nature. Again, I don't mean "secret life" which IMO was a stand-in for the real secrets.
People get lost in a house of mirrors. We need solid ground, most of us.

Couldn't find SOTU in our acronyms list: what does it stand for?

[Casspian]

hmmmm. This is a puzzle. I hadn't considered this before, but of course, it's absolutely clear this is another one of those things that just doesn't add up.

Looking back in retrospect, there are so many things that don't add up. Among them:

His mother saying "I hope he's not being persecuted."
Think about it. If you are a parent, can you imagine saying "I hope my child isn't being persecuted" if your young-adult child goes missing?

Going home to make cookies? The timeline doesn't add up, considering the time he left work and the time it would take to get to Costco, go shopping, and then get home before the children's bedtime. I know we discussed this so many times, but it seems clear, given the outcome, that baking cookies was not in the stars.

The phone calls.

And now this. Leaving the car at the Federal Way complex when he must have known (or did he?) that people were looking for him. The scenario that comes to mind is that he was injured? Or was he held against his will? Was he knocked out? Did someone kidnap him?

Just brainstorming, no ill intent or offense implied. Trying to figure it out...........


I can't find any source where those are the exact words of Nicholas' mother. It does appear that several days after his car was found and nearly a week after he disappeared, that she said

“I’ve only been praying that if someone is persecuting my son, I pray for their heart to be softened so that my son can be brought back to us safely,” Rosann Francisco said

http://www.kirotv.com/news/15348012/detail.html

But we have no idea what information she had at that time or even before he went missing.

[Musterion]

(bbm)
That was my thinking also. He had to know people would be looking for him, and people who lived at the apartments could call LE reporting seeing him and his car. :unsure:

And, they did. Report seeing his car. Not him, though. As soon as the fliers and news put the picture of the car out someone called LE from the Heritage Condos.

It isn't that no one thought the car didn't belong there. They did, the report was that people remembered seeing it for several days. That could imply that they knew that the car didn't belong there and wondered who it belonged to. Since it stood out in their minds.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Hi Musterion,

Yes, IIRC, there was the phone call. One of the secrets.

Another secret: reason for leaving HMC
Another secret: bank where withdrawal was made (photo?)
another secret: who knew what and when
secret: online identities
secret: SOTU
secret: some other details
there were many secret words: i.e. persecuted, coward.

Among many others, and I don't include "secret life" in that #

It's one of the reasons people became interested in this case, IMO. Throwing a bunch of secrets out there like bread crumbs is sure to draw the public, as the drive to understand is human nature. Again, I don't mean "secret life" which IMO was a stand-in for the real secrets.
People get lost in a house of mirrors. We need solid ground, most of us.

You are so right, SE.

It doesn't make much sense to throw information out and not expect to be questioned.

Why bother putting out information such as Nicholas stopped at an ATM or had a phone call on his dead cell phone, without saying where the ATM was located or the phone call was inconsequential, if it was.

It doesn't seem the information was put out there to yield clues or help. It seems it may have been put out there to raise suspicions. Of what?

One other thing I want to address that has been coming up and that is questioning LE and how they handled this case. I would never, ever blindly trust LE just because they are LE. That is not disparaging KCSO or picking on them, it just frightens me that anyone could say that we should not question how this case was handled and how much they were involved in actually finding him.

Again, questioning seems to equate disrespect. And that is just not true.

When people and a society are told to accept everything they are told, accept blindly, it turns a free thinking society into a dictatorship.

Why are people upset with questions?

Sorry, Eddie. Hijacking your good post!!! :blush:

IMO.
M.

[MystryPhobia]

And, they did. Report seeing his car. Not him, though. As soon as the fliers and news put the picture of the car out someone called LE from the Heritage Condos.

It isn't that no one thought the car didn't belong there. They did, the report was that people remembered seeing it for several days. That could imply that they knew that the car didn't belong there and wondered who it belonged to. Since it stood out in their minds.

IMO.
M.
I am still of the mindset that something happened THAT night that forced him to make the decision that he did. I don't have any clue what it was but I do think there is enough information from Christine and his coworkers that nothing was out of the ordinary. He didn't take those things that have been mentioned before.. such as his art and such.. just the normal things that he would have left work with and gone home.

Something happened IMO. I don't think that he made it home tho. I think that someone was either forcing him to make a decision or was threatening him. Perhaps he believed that by the time he got home.. Christine would know what he had been up to. Perhaps he knew what her reaction would be.. and knew that she would not keep it private. Perhaps he didn't feel that he would ever be accepted by her or the people that were in their close circle.

[Musterion]

I am still of the mindset that something happened THAT night that forced him to make the decision that he did. I don't have any clue what it was but I do think there is enough information from Christine and his coworkers that nothing was out of the ordinary. He didn't take those things that have been mentioned before.. such as his art and such.. just the normal things that he would have left work with and gone home.

Something happened IMO. I don't think that he made it home tho. I think that someone was either forcing him to make a decision or was threatening him. Perhaps he believed that by the time he got home.. Christine would know what he had been up to. Perhaps he knew what her reaction would be.. and knew that she would not keep it private. Perhaps he didn't feel that he would ever be accepted by her or the people that were in their close circle.

It seems that that could very well be it. I've thought about it, too, in that light and then, of course, it brings more questions to mind.

Who could have intimidated him so much to walk away with nothing?

He seems the same happy go lucky guy at work at five thirty, 13 February 2008, tells his wife he'll be home with sugar to bake with his little one, and what happens between walking out of work, going to the ATM and having his car found a few days later?

IMO.
M.

[MystryPhobia]

It seems that that could very well be it. I've thought about it, too, in that light and then, of course, it brings more questions to mind.

Who could have intimidated him so much to walk away with nothing?

He seems the same happy go lucky guy at work at five thirty, 13 February 2008, tells his wife he'll be home with sugar to bake with his little one, and what happens between walking out of work, going to the ATM and having his car found a few days later?

IMO.
M.

Sure would like to know who that phone call was too on his cell phone. Would also like to know what the reason was that a PI was hired by Publicis but for whatever reason was not utilized. My memory is a little fuzzy about this but they either hired one and didn't use them or were going to hire one but then decided not to. Either way.. why?

[MystryPhobia]

instead of someone helping him...does anyone think maybe he was the one helping someone else (Costco guy?) maybe he knew something? thinking out of the box. maybe the pieces don't fit b/c we are looking at the puzzle from the wrong angle. just a thought.

That is a good possiblity saydeezmom.. maybe we are looking at it wrong. I don't think that it was with the Costco guy (actually his wife worked at the Costco that Nicholas might have stopped at.. except we have been told that isn't the way that Nicholas went home.. he went around the water and I think there was another Costco he would have used besides the SouthCenter one.. I might not be remembering this right either.. but I remember reading that somewhere since all this started)

[Musterion]

instead of someone helping him...does anyone think maybe he was the one helping someone else (Costco guy?) maybe he knew something? thinking out of the box. maybe the pieces don't fit b/c we are looking at the puzzle from the wrong angle. just a thought.

Saydeezmom,

What an interesting thought. I had never considered that. Thank you for bringing it up.

Now, I have to think!!!

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Sure would like to know who that phone call was too on his cell phone. Would also like to know what the reason was that a PI was hired by Publicis but for whatever reason was not utilized. My memory is a little fuzzy about this but they either hired one and didn't use them or were going to hire one but then decided not to. Either way.. why?

Boy, there was a lot flying around about that. How I remember it was that a PI was hired but never utilized. Another mystery. Why hire the PI and not use him. Cost too much? Or, found something. Did Nicholas have a Mac at work, does anyone know? Or did he just have the laptop at home and use it for work as well?

IMO.
M.

[Starkist]

Sure would like to know who that phone call was too on his cell phone. Would also like to know what the reason was that a PI was hired by Publicis but for whatever reason was not utilized. My memory is a little fuzzy about this but they either hired one and didn't use them or were going to hire one but then decided not to. Either way.. why?

They hired a PI for about 3 days from what I recall. There were no reports of any findings. Also IIRC it was reported the last phone call on Nick's phone was inconsequential to the search.

Perhaps the PI was only hired by Publicis to find whether Nick had stolen any intellectual property or not? :confused:

[worried]

I have to agree 100% with you on this and when the story started to fall apart people went after the wife not wanting to give up on the whole package. So since someone had to pay it was the wife.

The wife was not not well liked for a whole host of other reasons. I am so glad that Nicholas has been found. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the entire situation, it is so nice to have a live body and not another deceased one.

[worried]

They hired a PI for about 3 days from what I recall. There were no reports of any findings. Also IIRC it was reported the last phone call on Nick's phone was inconsequential to the search.

Perhaps the PI was only hired by Publicis to find whether Nick had stolen any intellectual property or not? :confused:

Ok Starkist,
I don't say this often but.........you were right and I was wrong lol! Hope you are feeling better soon!