Caylee 11-7-09

[Jester]

Heck with Casey, will you make my Christmas cards? :P

Don't mean to gross you out ... and now I'm going to purge my computer of these images. Same image on both sides of the paper, and we're in production. I shouldn't waste paper like this.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/anthonyback.jpg

[denjet]

Yeah, yeah...that's what they all say.

I don't really consider myself addicted :wink:, but I did place an order for one of these to get ready for the trial. It will go in front of the HD flat screen on the wall. Now all I'll need to do is shove something in the crock pot every morning before the trial starts.

http://www.humorek.com/obrazki/2007-01-10-sroda/computer-toilet.jpg

I'm jealous !! Sweet set up !! :thumbup:

[sunstar]

It also seems to me the doc dump was announced and then BAM!, the docs were here. No time for any sort of pre-emptive strike on the part of the defense team, seems like.

But ... we'll see next week.

Monday will be too late for them, imo ~ we will have had all weekend to discusss the findings already!! :wink:

[velvetbrown]

. Most have said, Casey smelled it,

She who smelt it, dealt it...

[Lavinya]

Yeah, yeah...that's what they all say.

I don't really consider myself addicted :wink:, but I did place an order for one of these to get ready for the trial. It will go in front of the HD flat screen on the wall. Now all I'll need to do is shove something in the crock pot every morning before the trial starts.

http://www.humorek.com/obrazki/2007-01-10-sroda/computer-toilet.jpg

:laugh::laugh: Oh man, I'm going to be in *really* bad shape during the trial! I guess I can tell the family I'm joining the Army and they won't miss me.

I think I might go back and look at some old jail videos. It's always fun to revisit old stuff in this case when we learn more.

[Jester]

Some styles in stretchy fabrics would look a lot better and wouldn't have the appearance of needing ironing. Her "favorite store" sells them. :wink:

Polyester Queen? Why not. There's can't be too much trouble with static cling in Florida.

[Lavinya]

Don't mean to gross you out ... and now I'm going to purge my computer of these images. Same image on both sides of the paper, and we're in production. I shouldn't waste paper like this.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/anthonyback.jpg

:thumbsup: Sign my name to it! :thumbsup:

[spydernweb2006]

If I remember correctly TonE wasnt allowed close to the trunk area by Casey that day. He just drove Casey and She put the gas in and put the cans into the trunk area. He could also have had what I call gas nose. Thats when the smell of gas gets into your sinuses and thats all you can smell for awhile. At that point in time that TonE was by Casey's car the decomp may not have been very ripe, which it became over time.

It really doesnt matter if TonE could or couldnt smell the decomp in the car trunk, it was and likely still is there. Ive been told by people that once the decomp smell gets inbto something you can never get rid of it. No matter what you do to clean it, the stink will remain.

I remember when I lived in Tampa, My Sister had went grocery shopping and they placed her food into the plastic bags alot of stores use. One of her packages of chicken fell out in the backseat floorboard and got covered by one of her Son's jacket and stuff. About a week later Man did her car stink! We found the chicken and threw it out. She finally had to junk the car cause the smell wouldnt come out no matter what we did to clean it. Case in point, the meat DID NOT smell for a awhile and once it did it never came out. This could have happened to Casey's car, Caylee was decomposing but the smell didnt get bad for awhile after, then became unbearable and She ditched the car.


JMHO

hugs,
Spyder

[Spots]

FGS...I have been reading this thread throughout the evening and all I read it how "TonE" didn't smell any decomp. So he didn't smell it. Will this get Casey any further away from being convicted and thrown in prison for the rest of her natural life. Nope.
Move forward.:sneaky:

I'll do the honors-

OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: THIS HORSE IS DEAD.

Stop beating the poor carcass.

Thank you.

[charmin 66]

Now I understand why it keeps being brought up. I think. :shrug:

I think if were TonE, ya know covering, I would have left out the pillow talk stuff.

[need2no]

Don't mean to gross you out ... and now I'm going to purge my computer of these images. Same image on both sides of the paper, and we're in production. I shouldn't waste paper like this.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/anthonyback.jpg

Great card, but could you please add this portion of the lyrics to the Christmas song I'm Getting Nuttin' for Christmas(By Sid Tepper, Roy C. Bennett)? TIA!

I'm gettin' nuttin' for Christmas
Mommy and Daddy are mad.
I'm gettin' nuttin' for Christmas
'Cause I ain't been nuttin' but bad.

[Jester]

Thanks Imp.

The reason I asked, is I picked up what appeared to be some contradictory statements in the entemotology report and was wondering if LKB said anything regarding that report ... I'm not an entemologist, so what appears to me contradictory may not be contradictory at all.

:laugh:

What pages are you looking at?

[impartial]

I don't understand what's such a big deal about TonE not smelling the putrid smell in Casey's car that day. The tow guy said he didn't smell anything either when he towed the car. Was he lying too? The fact remains, the car did smell and that fact is not disputed. So what's the big deal here?


I think it's a good question about Tony's statement regardin the car and smell/no smell.

The body farm's air analysis places the decomp. at 2 1/2 days. Normally, once the docomposing event is removed, the stench decreases rather than increases. Casey said the car started smelling. The tow truck driver didn't smell it, but the trunk was closed. When Tony was near the car, the trunk was open. George said he didn't smell anything on the 24th, with the trunk open. Everyone said the car smelled horrible when the car was discovered.

If Tony did smell it and said he didn't, why would he do that.

If Tony didn't smell it, when did the car/trunk start smelling? And how does that coincide with a 2 1/2 day decomp.? When was Caylee in the trunk? Before or after the 24th? Based on 2 1/2 day decomp, and the last time Caylee was seen alive on the 16th, if she was placed in the trunk on the 16th, then she was removed by the 19th. Why did the car smell so horrible on July 15th if it didn't smell June 24/27th when the FBI reports show no decomposing liquids found in the trunk.

:confused:

imo

[Spots]

If I remember correctly TonE wasnt allowed close to the trunk area by Casey that day. He just drove Casey and She put the gas in and put the cans into the trunk area. He could also have had what I call gas nose. Thats when the smell of gas gets into your sinuses and thats all you can smell for awhile. At that point in time that TonE was by Casey's car the decomp may not have been very ripe, which it became over time.

It really doesnt matter if TonE could or couldnt smell the decomp in the car trunk, it was and likely still is there. Ive been told by people that once the decomp smell gets inbto something you can never get rid of it. No matter what you do to clean it, the stink will remain.

I remember when I lived in Tampa, My Sister had went grocery shopping and they placed her food into the plastic bags alot of stores use. One of her packages of chicken fell out in the backseat floorboard and got covered by one of her Son's jacket and stuff. About a week later Man did her car stink! We found the chicken and threw it out. She finally had to junk the car cause the smell wouldnt come out no matter what we did to clean it. Case in point, the meat DID NOT smell for a awhile and once it did it never came out. This could have happened to Casey's car, Caylee was decomposing but the smell didnt get bad for awhile after, then became unbearable and She ditched the car.


JMHO

hugs,
Spyder

Mythbusters did an episode on this. They put the carcass of a pig in a car for a while. Totally ruined a perfectly good Corvette.

[sunstar]

Polyester Queen? Why not. There's can't be too much trouble with static cling in Florida.

No, not '70s polyester! Knitted fabrics that don't look like they need ironing. :biggrin:

:seeya: until tomorrow, have a good night all!

[*Onmyknervz*]

Newest nic, Scoob. Newest. Try to keep up with the reading comprehension. Always a problem for you but I think you see the light at the end of the tunnel. You're getting better. IMO.

Could you please verify for the board what you claimed to verify earlier while you were posting with your Limp Shark nic?


What the heck are you talking about?
:confused:

[Lavinya]

No, not '70s polyester! Knitted fabrics that don't look like they need ironing. :biggrin:

:seeya: until tomorrow, have a good night all!

Good night Sunstar! :seeya:

[need2no]

I'll do the honors-

OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: THIS HORSE IS DEAD.

Stop beating the poor carcass.

Thank you.

DITTO and THANK YOU for doing the honors! :patriot:

Now to change the subject.....does anyone recall anything about the carpet being replaced in Lee's rental house before he moved out?

[velvetbrown]

Goodnight everyone!

[spydernweb2006]

I think it's a good question about Tony's statement regardin the car and smell/no smell.

The body farm's air analysis places the decomp. at 2 1/2 days. Normally, once the docomposing event is removed, the stench decreases rather than increases. Casey said the car started smelling. The tow truck driver didn't smell it, but the trunk was closed. When Tony was near the car, the trunk was open. George said he didn't smell anything on the 24th, with the trunk open. Everyone said the car smelled horrible when the car was discovered.

If Tony did smell it and said he didn't, why would he do that.

If Tony didn't smell it, when did the car/trunk start smelling? And how does that coincide with a 2 1/2 day decomp.? When was Caylee in the trunk? Before or after the 24th? Based on 2 1/2 day decomp, and the last time Caylee was seen alive on the 16th, if she was placed in the trunk on the 16th, then she was removed by the 19th. Why did the car smell so horrible on July 15th if it didn't smell June 24/27th when the FBI reports show no decomposing liquids found in the trunk.

:confused:

imo

IMO TonE wasnt close to the trunk area to smell anything and he ciuld also have had gas fume nose having transported Casey and the gas cans in his vehicle.

TonE not smelling decomp doesnt make it not there, nor absolves Casey in any way. Fact is Caylee was dead in Casey's car and was decomposing in the trunk and Casey admits to the decomp smell.

JMHO

hugs,
Spyder

[Dtviewer3]

I think it's a good question about Tony's statement regardin the car and smell/no smell.

The body farm's air analysis places the decomp. at 2 1/2 days. Normally, once the docomposing event is removed, the stench decreases rather than increases. Casey said the car started smelling. The tow truck driver didn't smell it, but the trunk was closed. When Tony was near the car, the trunk was open. George said he didn't smell anything on the 24th, with the trunk open. Everyone said the car smelled horrible when the car was discovered.

If Tony did smell it and said he didn't, why would he do that.

If Tony didn't smell it, when did the car/trunk start smelling? And how does that coincide with a 2 1/2 day decomp.? When was Caylee in the trunk? Before or after the 24th? Based on 2 1/2 day decomp, and the last time Caylee was seen alive on the 16th, if she was placed in the trunk on the 16th, then she was removed by the 19th. Why did the car smell so horrible on July 15th if it didn't smell June 24/27th when the FBI reports show no decomposing liquids found in the trunk.

:confused:

imo

Are we sure the FBI reports show no decomposing liquids? I thought I read something contradicting that....I'll have to look again.

As to why Tony didnt smell it, many of us have weighed in with our own guesses, but without something more from Tony they are just guesses.
Is it because of the gas they were handling? Was the 24th before the smell got really bad? Was he downwind? Was Caylee in a bag in the trunk and the bag broke on/after the 24th? Did Tony just not notice?

Could be a million reasons.

[impartial]

Are we sure the FBI reports show no decomposing liquids? I thought I read something contradicting that....I'll have to look again.

As to why Tony didnt smell it, many of us have weighed in with our own guesses, but without something more from Tony they are just guesses.
Is it because of the gas they were handling? Was the 24th before the smell got really bad? Was he downwind? Was Caylee in a bag in the trunk and the bag broke on/after the 24th? Did Tony just not notice?

Could be a million reasons.

The entemology report refers to decomposing liquids in the trunk, but the FBI reports of their testing the trunk showed no DNA, no decomposing liquids ... the only thing before Caylee's body was found to tie Caylee's body to the trunk was the smell and the air sample report.

So I don't know where the entemology report gets there were decomposing liquids in the trunk, unless there is a report that hasn't yet been released.

imo

[Jester]

Oh. Gosh darn it. I guess I'll have to wait for Scooby's newest nic before I can ask her the question I have in mind. :)

Has there been a consensus as to why it would be important for TonE to smell Casey's vehicle or has everyone given up on BlueMartini's ramblings?
Maybe he was up wind.

[desmom]

I think it's a good question about Tony's statement regardin the car and smell/no smell.

The body farm's air analysis places the decomp. at 2 1/2 days. Normally, once the docomposing event is removed, the stench decreases rather than increases. Casey said the car started smelling. The tow truck driver didn't smell it, but the trunk was closed. When Tony was near the car, the trunk was open. George said he didn't smell anything on the 24th, with the trunk open. Everyone said the car smelled horrible when the car was discovered.

If Tony did smell it and said he didn't, why would he do that.

If Tony didn't smell it, when did the car/trunk start smelling? And how does that coincide with a 2 1/2 day decomp.? When was Caylee in the trunk? Before or after the 24th? Based on 2 1/2 day decomp, and the last time Caylee was seen alive on the 16th, if she was placed in the trunk on the 16th, then she was removed by the 19th. Why did the car smell so horrible on July 15th if it didn't smell June 24/27th when the FBI reports show no decomposing liquids found in the trunk.

:confused:

imo

I believe Casey made several attempts to clean up the trunk of her car. There were paper towels with grave wax found in the trash bag that had been in the trunk.

Tone was near the passenger door on June 23 after they broke into the shed for the gas cans. On June 24, George was close enough to the trunk of the car to see clothes in the trunk and a collapsible crate. Neither Tone or George noticed a smell.

Were the clothes George saw put there by Casey in an attempt to smother the smell? I don't think the clothes worked because on June 25, Casey told Amy about the an odor in her car.

IMO, Casey's cleaning attempts were a huge waste because she would only clean the top surface. Any body fluids that had seeped into the liner or under the liner would remain. The Florida Sun would have "baked" the odor causing it to intensify the longer the car sat closed up.

jmo

[Aunt]

You may have missed the point, I will say it more clearly this time. Its the same reasons there are repeat posts over all the matters in this case, to include the same jokes on and on about the family members. Does it get old after a while? I can relate :) in that respect. The reason Tony didn't smell anything is not clear to me, however the reasons there are repeat posts joking about the family is, but so what? RIGHT ?

You know what? Its hard to read your distracting posts, give it a rest.

Step away. Walk the dog, learn to play banjo, but plueeease MOVE on.

I have been enjoying reading today, ASIDE from this type of dribble.

The documents were DAMNING, to say the LEAST.

[Dtviewer3]

The entemology report refers to decomposing liquids in the trunk, but the FBI reports of their testing the trunk showed no DNA, no decomposing liquids ... the only thing before Caylee's body was found to tie Caylee's body to the trunk was the smell and the air sample report.

So I don't know where the entemology report gets there were decomposing liquids in the trunk, unless there is a report that hasn't yet been released.

imo

yea, thats what I was referring to.
Page 7 of the entemology report repeatedly mentions the decompostion fluids on the floor of the car and on the paper towels.

Wonder if there are more reports with this info.....

[*Onmyknervz*]

You know what? Its hard to read your distracting posts, give it a rest.

Step away. Walk the dog, learn to play banjo, but plueeease MOVE on.

I have been enjoying reading today, ASIDE from this type of dribble.

The documents were DAMNING, to say the LEAST.

I rather enjoy BlueMartini's posts. They are like a breath of fresh air. So I hope he/she continue's to share their opinions on this board.

[impartial]

Exactly. What is the possible significance of TonE not smelling anything? So that means there was no decomposing body in the trunk of the car? Never mind all the forensic evidence and the dead baby -- Tony didn't smell it and so it can't be so?? I fail to see the logic. :blink:


It's a credibility issue to me. If the car smelled, and Tony did smell it, why would he deny that?

Of course, perhaps he didn't smell it, but if it was so horrible with the trunk open at the tow yard, and so bad in the Anthony's garage that it was gagging, why wouldn't he have smelled it. Doesn't mean there wasn't a decomposing body in the trunk at some point, just curious as to whether Tony is being completely honest.

imo

[Jester]

:thumbsup: Sign my name to it! :thumbsup:

Limited Edition of 2

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/anthonyback2.jpg

[Aunt]

I rather enjoy BlueMartini's posts. They are like a breath of fresh air. So I hope he/she continue's to share their opinions on this board.

Have at er.

G'night friends.

[MrsHudson]

snipped...
If Tony didn't smell it, when did the car/trunk start smelling? And how does that coincide with a 2 1/2 day decomp.? When was Caylee in the trunk? Before or after the 24th? Based on 2 1/2 day decomp, and the last time Caylee was seen alive on the 16th, if she was placed in the trunk on the 16th, then she was removed by the 19th. Why did the car smell so horrible on July 15th if it didn't smell June 24/27th when the FBI reports show no decomposing liquids found in the trunk.

:confused:

imo


The car DID SMELL on June 25 Wednesday because Casey told Amy about a bad smell in car (dad must have run over animal)

On June 27 Friday when Casey abandoned the car at Amscot she told Amy she got rid of the smelly animal plastered to her car.

Tony did not smell it. So what?? Casey did and described it not as rotting food but as a dead animal. Heck she's actually admitting something here! This is very incriminating.

Everyone smelled it BUT TONY! He smelled something but it was gas. I'd say a gas smell was all he was reasonably expecting to smell and that's what he did smell. He just was not focused on the trunk or other smells. He was focused on putting gas in the car. He was out in the open, the wind may have been blowing the trunk smell away. It's not impossible that he just saw the whole event as mundane and a hassle and was not focused like a laser beam on the air quality that day.

[Jester]

Exactly. What is the possible significance of TonE not smelling anything? So that means there was no decomposing body in the trunk of the car? Never mind all the forensic evidence and the dead baby -- Tony didn't smell it and so it can't be so?? I fail to see the logic. :blink:

TonE not smelling the decomposition contradicts all the forensic evidence, and testimony of eye witnesses including Casey Anthony. I don't think it's particularly significant that Casey successfully prevented TonE from getting close enough to the trunk to smell the decomposition.

Maybe those that are particularly interested in this issue could report back with the prevailing winds that day. TonE either wasn't familiar with the smell (unlike Cindy, George, and Casey), or was upwind.

[caphill]

I didn't take notes, and the site I was using kept freezing up, so I quit it. Now that Desmom has the docs up on the links thread, I will re-read, take notes, and let you know ... maybe not tonight.

But initially, the contradictions seemed to come from the explanations about what was found at the crime scene and the trunk/bag ... in explaining why there weren't more of one type of bug (ie coffin) at the crime scene seemed to contradict why they would be in the bag/trunk. There were some others as well.

imo


I found contradictions through out the report also. I read it twice and found Dr. Haskell's statements regarding the reduced numbers of blowfly colonization interesting and confusing. He later addresses the same issue by saying the body could have been stored in a location that excluded initial colonization. The blow flies are first to find and use a fresh dead body is a quote from Dr. Haskell.

His continued mention of the reduced number of blow flies in the trunk and the dump site caused me to wonder if Caylee had been dumped after a much more advanced decomposition had occurred. The idea that a trunk of car could exclude initial colonization is questionable in my view. IIRC, that was still live insect infestation in the bags and soil. Would that be likely after 6 months.

He did state that these species can also be found on decaying organic matter from other sources. No kidding, Sherlock! We all know that flies like decaying matter whether it a dead body or not.

I look forward to your views of his report and whether he left us with more questions than answers.

[MrsHudson]

Desmom gives a good explanation of the possibilities in #876, above. The tow truck driver also didn't smell anything -- he had a cold. In my experience, no matter how slight or strong the odor, everyone perceives it differently -- sometimes slightly differently, sometimes very differently. In this case, it seems there was quite an escalation in the strength of the odor while it sat in the towyard, in the heat, closed up.

Of all the hinky things in this case, I find Tony's statement he didn't smell anything in the Pontiac to be less than noteworthy. :shrug:

Agreed. So he didn't smell it. He was the only one. Even Casey smelled it.

[summer]

Desmom gives a good explanation of the possibilities in #876, above. The tow truck driver also didn't smell anything -- he had a cold. In my experience, no matter how slight or strong the odor, everyone perceives it differently -- sometimes slightly differently, sometimes very differently. In this case, it seems there was quite an escalation in the strength of the odor while it sat in the towyard, in the heat, closed up.

Of all the hinky things in this case, I find Tony's statement he didn't smell anything in the Pontiac to be less than noteworthy. :shrug:

ITA. Tony has been open, forthright, has not succumbed to the media to make a fast buck, wore a wire for LE, took a lie detector test, done everything possible to cooperate.

Even Cindy thought there was something dead in the trunk FGS, and got Casey in a heap of trouble on a f**king whim. George almost (or did) vomit over the smell. Lee couldn't stop laughing about the smell. The perp herself said it smelled. There are texts to prove it.

To even go *there* about Tony being duplicitous is a total crock and I don't think it's worthy of serious debate myself. He didn't smell it - okay. I believe him.

[*Onmyknervz*]

I rather enjoy Blue's posts as well. For the comedic value and the obvious lack of knowledge about this case, which also makes me laugh. Sometimes, levity is much needed in a case not unlike this one. I now take this time to thank Blue for the levity she brings to the board. Intentional or not. Thanks Blue. :)

Should we thank you for the sheer rudeness you bring?

[Lavinya]

Limited Edition of 2

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/anthonyback2.jpg

Good job! You whipped those babies out, lol. :thumbup:

[summer]

Okie dokie, seems message board posters are about to challenge the work of Dr. Neal Haskell. THE Dr. Neal Haskell.

It must be my bedtime.

Niters, folks. :seeya:

Nighters Say, I'm right behind you. :seeya:

[Lavinya]

lol. I'd also like a report on TonE's sense of smell. How acute is it? Does TonE have allergies? Sinus congestion? A deviated septum?

I also wonder about the wind that day. I know if you are around any coastal areas here, it can be quite windy. Which way was the wind blowing and how hard?

[Spots]

Okie dokie, seems message board posters are about to challenge the work of Dr. Neal Haskell. THE Dr. Neal Haskell.

It must be my bedtime.

Niters, folks. :seeya:

I'm with you.

Night all!

[onlykaty]

ITA. Tony has been open, forthright, has not succumbed to the media to make a fast buck, wore a wire for LE, took a lie detector test, done everything possible to cooperate.

Even Cindy thought there was something dead in the trunk FGS, and got Casey in a heap of trouble on a f**king whim. George almost (or did) vomit over the smell. Lee couldn't stop laughing about the smell. The perp herself said it smelled. There are texts to prove it.

To even go *there* about Tony being duplicitous is a total crock and I don't think it's worthy of serious debate myself. He didn't smell it - okay. I believe him.


I agree summer, I think Tone was just greatful to have dodged a bullet named "Casey"...jmo

[Lavinya]

Nighters Say, I'm right behind you. :seeya:

Nighty night, Imp and summer :wub::wub:. I'm gone with the wind myself! Good night to everyone!

[*Onmyknervz*]

I sure do miss your sense of humor. Do you miss it too? :smile:


I'm blessed with the joy of living with it. Thanks for the compliment.
:wink:

[impartial]

Desmom gives a good explanation of the possibilities in #876, above. The tow truck driver also didn't smell anything -- he had a cold. In my experience, no matter how slight or strong the odor, everyone perceives it differently -- sometimes slightly differently, sometimes very differently. In this case, it seems there was quite an escalation in the strength of the odor while it sat in the towyard, in the heat, closed up.

Of all the hinky things in this case, I find Tony's statement he didn't smell anything in the Pontiac to be less than noteworthy. :shrug:

It would, however, be noteworthy if he did in fact smell it, and denied that fact. I have always been a little curious about how quickly he distanced himself from her, not one visit to her ... he said she was really good with Caylee, yet, from the get-go, instead of concern for her or Caylee, he vamoosed. In hindsight, the smart thing to do. But curious to me that he had the foresight without knowing whether Caylee had been abducted by a stranger, to not show concern for the woman he had been dating and intimate with.

imo

[AnnieKins]

Limited Edition of 2

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/anthonyback2.jpg

Love it, love it, love it! :laugh:

[summer]

One more thing and then I'm turning in - really lol.

So let's see.... the defense now has Joy Wray (of 8 times Baker-acted fame) and the Tony-didn't-smell-it defense.

Okay. Case closed. I can see they've got the prosecution whipped.

Geez.

[need2no]

Desmom gives a good explanation of the possibilities in #876, above. The tow truck driver also didn't smell anything -- he had a cold. In my experience, no matter how slight or strong the odor, everyone perceives it differently -- sometimes slightly differently, sometimes very differently. In this case, it seems there was quite an escalation in the strength of the odor while it sat in the towyard, in the heat, closed up.

Of all the hinky things in this case, I find Tony's statement he didn't smell anything in the Pontiac to be less than noteworthy. :shrug:

I find it noteworthy that TonE said he offered to pour the gas and she told him she'd do it herself.

[kakax]

lol. I'd also like a report on TonE's sense of smell. How acute is it? Does TonE have allergies? Sinus congestion? A deviated septum?


:laugh: :laugh:

Geez. How do we always get stuck on one little issue when there are soooo many others that are more important.

[AnnieKins]

lol. I'd also like a report on TonE's sense of smell. How acute is it? Does TonE have allergies? Sinus congestion? A deviated septum?

You know all them fancy medical terms, Say. :smile:

[Dtviewer3]

It would, however, be noteworthy if he did in fact smell it, and denied that fact. I have always been a little curious about how quickly he distanced himself from her, not one visit to her ... he said she was really good with Caylee, yet, from the get-go, instead of concern for her or Caylee, he vamoosed. In hindsight, the smart thing to do. But curious to me that he had the foresight without knowing whether Caylee had been abducted by a stranger, to not show concern for the woman he had been dating and intimate with.

imo

As much as I believe Tony is an upstanding person, and he seems to have tried to be as forthcoming as he can be, I do believe there have been times when he has tried to distance himself from some of the more serious parts of the case.

If he had said to himself, "Im going to take a lie detector and do anything the police want me to, but i'm not getting involved beyond that", I wouldnt be surprised.

[AnnieKins]

I sure do miss your sense of humor. Do you miss it too? :smile:

Aaaaccckkkkk! :laugh:

[*Onmyknervz*]

:laugh: :laugh:

Geez. How do we always get stuck on one little issue when there are soooo many others that are more important.


You mean like Casey's back acne?

[kakax]

Yea, Baez grabbed his butt and yelled OUCH!


J/k, not that we've heard of yet.




:lol::lol: now that is funny!

[Dtviewer3]

You mean like Casey's back acne?

Personally, I dont know what her bacne would have to do with the case and I dont think its anything we need to discuss.
But I'm not a 'mod' so if thats what you bring to this foum, have at it....

[onlykaty]

Evidence? nonsense? Let me be clearer for you, I am a patient one wouldn't you agree? Tony was standing by the back passenger door which is right by the gas tank of the car, when the trunk lid opens in that hot humid Florida sun and the pressure from all that built up air and gases comes wooshing out, one would think one would smell it. So Tony says he doesn't smell it. wonderful, so as you yourself say, there either was no body in that car to lend such a smell or Tony himself was just oblivious to the REEKING smell that is being screamed came from her trunk.

I'll close this with, Tony should have been able to smell the stench, as should have the tow guys and anyone else who came into contact with that car, On June 25th when Casey claimed fame to the dead animal smell on her car.


Maybe she hit a skunk, maybe that smell did go away as she said it had.

You believe her that she said her car smelled, then don't believe her when she said it stopped? She had nothing to hide at that point, no one was cuffing her then making her speak!

Evidence, there is clear evidence that she did not report her baby missing, there is not clear evidence that she killed her baby. She is to go to trial from what they suspect and what they want to use as evidence, it will be up to a jury to decide her fate, you, nor I , or anyone in this forum will be on that jury to decide her fate.

What we are able to do is talk about things pertaining to the case, isn't free speech and thought a wonderful thing?

I have read ALL the old documents and some of the latest from yesterday and just re-focused on this case, thought there was going to be some smoking gun, come to find out there was not. There may be that smoking gun to come in the next batch, we will all have to sit tight, wait and see.

Nope she NEVER did report Caylee missing, it took Grandma 31 days to report it. BECAUSE, Casey lied to her and everyone else where Caylee was. A HUGE question here is why?. To me thats a lot bigger deal than if Tone smelled something. Casey would have went on with her life as if Caylee never existed had it not been for Cindy. What conclusion do you think a reasonable thinking person would come to, even without all the other stuff?

[*Onmyknervz*]

Personally, I dont know what her bacne would have to do with the case and I dont think its anything we need to discuss.
But I'm not a 'mod' so if thats what you bring to this foum, have at it....


You never saw me discussing it, and you never will.

[charmin 66]

lol. I'd also like a report on TonE's sense of smell. How acute is it? Does TonE have allergies? Sinus congestion? A deviated septum?

Does TonE smoke?

[kakax]

You mean like Casey's back acne?

Sort of.

Although, the bacne is interesting because it concerns the Odious One. After Cindy saying Zenaida wasn't a ten and being so ugly about it, it is somewhat satisfying to see Casey not looking her best. She was after all, trying to look her best every day she was on camera going to Jose's.

Tone hasn't done anything wrong. IMO, it is wrong to suggest he has done anything but cooperate.

[Dtviewer3]

You never saw me discussing it, and you never will.

Oh, i thought i just saw you bring it up.

Guess my eyes must be playing tricks on me.....

[impartial]

Nope she NEVER did report Caylee missing, it took Grandma 31 days to report it. BECAUSE, Casey lied to her and everyone else where Caylee was. A HUGE question here is why?. To me thats a lot bigger deal than if Tone smelled something. Casey would have went on with her life as if Caylee never existed had it not been for Cindy. What conclusion do you think a reasonable thinking person would come to, even without all the other stuff?


Casey wasn't going on with her life. She was searching for Caylee ... she went undercover as a shot girl so she wouldn't be outed as searching for Zanny. And everyone knows when one is undercover, they have to make it look like their having fun. :wink:

imo

[*Onmyknervz*]

Sort of.

Although, the bacne is interesting because it concerns the Odious One. After Cindy saying Zenaida wasn't a ten and being so ugly about it, it is somewhat satisfying to see Casey not looking her best. She was after all, trying to look her best every day she was on camera going to Jose's.

Tone hasn't done anything wrong. IMO, it is wrong to suggest he has done anything but cooperate.


I think she said Zenaida was cute, but not a ten.

[desmom]

It would, however, be noteworthy if he did in fact smell it, and denied that fact. I have always been a little curious about how quickly he distanced himself from her, not one visit to her ... he said she was really good with Caylee, yet, from the get-go, instead of concern for her or Caylee, he vamoosed. In hindsight, the smart thing to do. But curious to me that he had the foresight without knowing whether Caylee had been abducted by a stranger, to not show concern for the woman he had been dating and intimate with.

imo

I can't blame him for distancing himself from Casey. I would have probably done the same thing if I was in his shoes.

On July 15 at approximately 8:00 p.m., Tone, his roommate and his girlfriend are hanging out waiting for the All Star Game to begin, when there is a knock on the door. It is Amy and Cindy.

In the next 24 hours, Tone learned his girlfriend's daughter has been missing for 31 days; LE searched his apartment; everything his girlfriend had told him about her job, her family life, school, financial situation, her future living arrangements and her car were not true; his girlfriend had raided her best friend's checking account; his girlfriend was lying to LE about where she left her daughter; he was questioned by LE...

Tone did tell Casey in a text message he would do everything he could to help find Caylee. IMO, he did what he could to help find Caylee when he cooperated with LE.

jmo

[need2no]

As much as I believe Tony is an upstanding person, and he seems to have tried to be as forthcoming as he can be, I do believe there have been times when he has tried to distance himself from some of the more serious parts of the case.

If he had said to himself, "Im going to take a lie detector and do anything the police want me to, but i'm not getting involved beyond that", I wouldnt be surprised.

I was going to keep this thought to myself, but what the hay.

TonE was a little sketchy about details as to who got the cans out of his hatchback...he thinks casey grabbed one and he thinks he grabbed the other. Read how he kinda stutters his way through the guestions about the gas cans. Perhaps TonE was feeling a little unnerved about the break in of the Anthony shed, perhaps TonE sat in his jeep smoking a joint while casey handled gassing up her car. Maybe TonE lit the joint on the way to the car and casey told him to get stay in the jeep and smoke since it would only take a few minutes to put the gas in her car. Maybe TonE didn't want to admit it, (not being a gentleman, AND smoking pot), or maybe he admitted it to LE off the record. So truth be known he wasn't near her car at all.

There is no doubt in my mind that TonE discussed things with LE off the record, and they assured him he would be in no trouble, they just needed his help....like taping Lee. Heck they even gave TonE 'gas' money.

[Dtviewer3]

I can't blame him for distancing himself from Casey. I would have probably done the same thing if I was in his shoes.

On July 15 at approximately 8:00 p.m., Tone, his roommate and his girlfriend are hanging out waiting for the All Star Game to begin, when there is a knock on the door. It is Amy and Cindy.

In the next 24 hours, Tone learned his girlfriend's daughter has been missing for 31 days; LE searched his apartment; everything his girlfriend had told him about her job, her family life, school, financial situation, her future living arrangements and her car were not true; his girlfriend had raided her best friend's checking account; his girlfriend was lying to LE about where she left her daughter; he was questioned by LE...

Tone did tell Casey in a text message he would do everything he could to help find Caylee. IMO, he did what he could to help find Caylee when he cooperated with LE.

jmo

Great post Desmom.

And being a guy, I can say the things you listed may have made me take a step back also......:biggrin:

[need2no]

Does TonE smoke?

I don't know but casey did have empty cigarette packs in her car. I'm a long time smoker and my family will tell you I have an unbelievably keen sense of smell. So apparently all smokers don't have a diminished sense of smell.

[Mel]

Limited Edition of 2

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/anthonyback2.jpg

ewwww:huh:

[*Onmyknervz*]

Huh? I find it unfortunate when posters attempt to post under the influence of their "medical marijuana." I believe the results above speak for themselves.


Unlike you, I'm not breaking any laws by "medicating".
:rolleyes:

[kakax]

I think she said Zenaida was cute, but not a ten.

It was rude.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Desmom gives a good explanation of the possibilities in #876, above. The tow truck driver also didn't smell anything -- he had a cold. In my experience, no matter how slight or strong the odor, everyone perceives it differently -- sometimes slightly differently, sometimes very differently. In this case, it seems there was quite an escalation in the strength of the odor while it sat in the towyard, in the heat, closed up.

Of all the hinky things in this case, I find Tony's statement he didn't smell anything in the Pontiac to be less than noteworthy. :shrug:

Just reading through here but didn't the guy in the tow yard say he did smell some something nasty?

Or was that only after the trunk was opened by George?

[Dtviewer3]

I was going to keep this thought to myself, but what the hay.

TonE was a little sketchy about details as to who got the cans out of his hatchback...he thinks casey grabbed one and he thinks he grabbed the other. Read how he kinda stutters his way through the guestions about the gas cans. Perhaps TonE was feeling a little unnerved about the break in of the Anthony shed, perhaps TonE sat in his jeep smoking a joint while casey handled gassing up her car. Maybe TonE lit the joint on the way to the car and casey told him to get stay in the jeep and smoke since it would only take a few minutes to put the gas in her car. Maybe TonE didn't want to admit it, (not being a gentleman, AND smoking pot), or maybe he admitted it to LE off the record. So truth be known he wasn't near her car at all.

There is no doubt in my mind that TonE discussed things with LE off the record, and they assured him he would be in no trouble, they just needed his help....like taping Lee. Heck they even gave TonE 'gas' money.

I think Tony may have been walking a thin tightrope as far as how much he was willing to be involved in all this.

[onlykaty]

Casey wasn't going on with her life. She was searching for Caylee ... she went undercover as a shot girl so she wouldn't be outed as searching for Zanny. And everyone knows when one is undercover, they have to make it look like their having fun. :wink:

imo

uh huh, okee dokee. Now if the defense can find one or two people for the jury that will beleive that one, I'll send my flying cow over to FL. for the celebration..;)

[Dtviewer3]

Just reading through here but didn't the guy in the tow yard say he did smell some something nasty?

Or was that only after the trunk was opened by George?

Yes, the tow yard guy did.

The tow truck driver that towed the car from anscott had just returned to work from being sick and said he couldnt smell anything.

[kakax]

Great post Desmom.

And being a guy, I can say the things you listed may have made me take a step back also......:biggrin:

:laugh: Ya think? More like an accelerated run away instead of a step back!

I can't imagine what all of those "new" friends of Casey's are feeling right now. What a big, fat mess.

[*Onmyknervz*]

It was rude.

Most of you find something wrong with anything Cindy says. I don't think Zenaida is a ten either. I don't think she's too cute either. I guess we all have different tastes.

[charmin 66]

I have to laugh at this. I am not saying or even thinking Tony not smelling the SMELL means he had something to do with anything at all. I have other thoughts, I will keep them to myself.

I will comment further on your speech and allow you to see what you are actually saying.

You are shouting from the roof top how bad this smell was, you have given many examples of who all shouted how bad this smell was, but when Tony says, huh, I didn't smell anything, you quietly say , well I believe him.

Thats great, I do TOO!

You know why, maybe he didn't smell anything that day , maybe its because the body was not in the trunk at that time, maybe it never was? See how things like this can make one scratch their head. I must take EVERY little thing into account, same as each of you must take every little thing into account.

I will ignore nothing big, nor small. I will take everything into account. In the end it means nothing since I will not be a juror, but let me tell you if my life was on the line, I would hope that this would be how jurors operate!

Earlier today you wanted to talk about "that guy Ricardo", and now it's Tone who is covering something up.

Sounds to me like you're just baiting. Please do take everything into account.

[TaraCrazyHair]

I can't blame him for distancing himself from Casey. I would have probably done the same thing if I was in his shoes.

On July 15 at approximately 8:00 p.m., Tone, his roommate and his girlfriend are hanging out waiting for the All Star Game to begin, when there is a knock on the door. It is Amy and Cindy.

In the next 24 hours, Tone learned his girlfriend's daughter has been missing for 31 days; LE searched his apartment; everything his girlfriend had told him about her job, her family life, school, financial situation, her future living arrangements and her car were not true; his girlfriend had raided her best friend's checking account; his girlfriend was lying to LE about where she left her daughter; he was questioned by LE...

Tone did tell Casey in a text message he would do everything he could to help find Caylee. IMO, he did what he could to help find Caylee when he cooperated with LE.

jmo


Didn't he ever wonder why he never saw Caylee in a months time?

[kakax]

Just reading through here but didn't the guy in the tow yard say he did smell some something nasty?

Or was that only after the trunk was opened by George?


He said that he noticed a smell even before he opened the trunk. Reminded him of another car that had been brought to the tow yard where a guy had commited suicide.

[Mel]

Just reading through here but didn't the guy in the tow yard say he did smell some something nasty?

Or was that only after the trunk was opened by George?

yeah, he noticed the smell, once the car was opened up, at the tow yard...him & George discussed it...hi Tara :seeya:

[Dtviewer3]

Most of you find something wrong with anything Cindy says. I don't think Zenaida is a ten either. I don't think she's too cute either. I guess we all have different tastes.

Theres a big difference between 'thinking' someone is less then a ten, and telling someone they arent a ten.

I would hope any reasonably smart adult would know that.....but obviously some dont.

The term "socially retarded" comes to mind.

[need2no]

I think Tony may have been walking a thin tightrope as far as how much he was willing to be involved in all this.

Probably so, and understandably so.

[Mel]

He said that he noticed a smell even before he opened the trunk. Reminded him of another car that had been brought to the tow yard where a guy had commited suicide.

you're right!...i had forgotten about that, thanks

[onlykaty]

Just reading through here but didn't the guy in the tow yard say he did smell some something nasty?

Or was that only after the trunk was opened by George?


I think he said he smelled an odor coming from the car once they got to the trunk, but when opened, the odor about knocked them both down. He also stated that they had an automobile there once before a person had died in and it was the same kind of smell. No denying what the smell was.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Yes, the tow yard guy did.

The tow truck driver that towed the car from anscott had just returned to work from being sick and said he couldnt smell anything.

Thanks for the clarification


(:

But a dead body smells strong from all accounts I have ever heard

A smell like no other ... even with a bad cold

And to tow a car -- you hook it up from the trunk end

[kakax]

Most of you find something wrong with anything Cindy says. I don't think Zenaida is a ten either. I don't think she's too cute either. I guess we all have different tastes.

You don't find fault with anyone in this case that actually IS at fault.

[Dtviewer3]

Didn't he ever wonder why he never saw Caylee in a months time?

Of course, and from his interviews evertime he asked Casey would tell him she was with the Nanny or the grandparents.

Just like she did with her mother when she asked. Someone 'else' is watching her.

[need2no]

Didn't he ever wonder why he never saw Caylee in a months time?

TonE being young and childless, and knowing casey still lived at home, probably didn't concern himself about it too much when casey told him Caylee was with the sitter.

[impartial]

Didn't he ever wonder why he never saw Caylee in a months time?

LTNS !! :seeya:


Guess not. He said Casey told him Caylee was either with the nanny or her parents.

Did you read the entemologist's report?

[onlykaty]

Didn't he ever wonder why he never saw Caylee in a months time?

Tone said he asked Casey about Caylee a few times and he always got the same answer she was with the nanny, they were on a picnic or going some place. I guess he could have questioned her more but it being Casey's child I'm sure he felt things were ok.

[*Onmyknervz*]

Theres a big difference between 'thinking' someone is less then a ten, and telling someone they arent a ten.

I would hope any reasonably smart adult would know that.....but obviously some dont.

The term "socially retarded" comes to mind.

Cindy wasn't socializing when asked those questions. Another thing a reasonably smart adult should be able to distingush... but obviously some don't and resort to name calling instead.

[Dtviewer3]

Thanks for the clarification


(:

But a dead body smells strong from all accounts I have ever heard

A smell like no other ... even with a bad cold

And to tow a car -- you hook it up from the trunk end

Obviously with the car closed up and his cold he said he didnt notice it.
The guy at the tow yard, who didnt have a cold, did.

[Mel]

Of course, and from his interviews evertime he asked Casey would tell him she was with the Nanny or the grandparents.

Just like she did with her mother when she asked. Someone 'else' is watching her.

right...i think Casey made it seem like a normal thing for Caylee to be off with the 'nanny' all the time, from the time she started seeing Tony

[AnnieKins]

I can't blame him for distancing himself from Casey. I would have probably done the same thing if I was in his shoes.

On July 15 at approximately 8:00 p.m., Tone, his roommate and his girlfriend are hanging out waiting for the All Star Game to begin, when there is a knock on the door. It is Amy and Cindy.

In the next 24 hours, Tone learned his girlfriend's daughter has been missing for 31 days; LE searched his apartment; everything his girlfriend had told him about her job, her family life, school, financial situation, her future living arrangements and her car were not true; his girlfriend had raided her best friend's checking account; his girlfriend was lying to LE about where she left her daughter; he was questioned by LE...

Tone did tell Casey in a text message he would do everything he could to help find Caylee. IMO, he did what he could to help find Caylee when he cooperated with LE.

jmo

Good one, des!

:thumbsup:

[Dtviewer3]

Cindy wasn't socializing when asked those questions. Another thing a reasonably smart adult should be able to distingush... but obviously some don't and resort to name calling instead.

Yep, and I'll say it again.
Cindy, (and George) are socially retarded.

Its pretty obvious........

[*Onmyknervz*]

You don't find fault with anyone in this case that actually IS at fault.

It's true, I don't think the Grandparents are responsible for the death of their grandaughter. What about it?

[need2no]

Thanks for the clarification


(:

But a dead body smells strong from all accounts I have ever heard

A smell like no other ... even with a bad cold

And to tow a car -- you hook it up from the trunk end

Maybe the pontiac is a front wheel drive car, in that case I believe they have to tow from the front, not the rear of the vehicle.

[kakax]

Cindy wasn't socializing when asked those questions. Another thing a reasonably smart adult should be able to distingush... but obviously some don't and resort to name calling instead.

No she wasn't socializing. She was in a deposition IN A COURT CASE. If you think that it is a reasonable thing to say to someone while you are giving a deposition, there is no reason for me to continue discussing things with you. You just don't get it.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Obviously with the car closed up and his cold he said he didnt notice it.
The guy at the tow yard, who didnt have a cold, did.

Dead body decomp in July in Florida and didn't smell anything

Even with a cold I can smell old food in my son's car in the fall lol

But he would have no reason to lie --- just odd is all

[onlykaty]

Cindy wasn't socializing when asked those questions. Another thing a reasonably smart adult should be able to distingush... but obviously some don't and resort to name calling instead.

Some just calls them like they see them. If there is posts here I'm not interested in, I just move on by them and get to the ones I want to discuss. I'm confused why it would bother anyone, just move on. :unsure:

[Dtviewer3]

It's true, I don't think the Grandparents are responsible for the death of their grandaughter. What about it?

Than you are in the majority.

Because I dont believe there is a single person here who thinks the grandparents are responsible for Caylees death.

Many, including myself do believe they are lying, covering and attempting to obstruct in hopes of helping Casey get away with her crime though.

[TaraCrazyHair]

It's true, I don't think the Grandparents are responsible for the death of their grandaughter. What about it?

I don't feel they are either ... post actions are questionable but unless somebody can state they helped murder or covered up the murder, they are not at fault to me short of total lack of class

[Dtviewer3]

Maybe the pontiac is a front wheel drive car, in that case I believe they have to tow from the front, not the rear of the vehicle.

Yes, and the car was backed in to the spot it was found.

[onlykaty]

Than you are in the majority.

Because I dont believe there is a single person here who thinks the grandparents are responsible for Caylees death.

Many, including myself do believe they are lying, covering and attempting to obstruct in hopes of helping Casey get away with her crime though.

Very well said. IA.

[*Onmyknervz*]

No she wasn't socializing. She was in a deposition IN A COURT CASE. If you think that it is a reasonable thing to say to someone while you are giving a deposition, there is no reason for me to continue discussing things with you. You just don't get it.

She gave an honest answer to the question she was asked. You think she should have lied for fear of sounding "socially retarted" as so eloquently described by DTViewer?

[TaraCrazyHair]

Maybe the pontiac is a front wheel drive car, in that case I believe they have to tow from the front, not the rear of the vehicle.

What year was it?

(But you still walk around the car even if front wheel)

[kakax]

It's true, I don't think the Grandparents are responsible for the death of their grandaughter. What about it?

I don't believe they are responsible for Caylee's death. It is their actions after she was murdered by their daughter that I find fault. You can't get a straight story out of them. They aren't trying to find out what happened to Caylee. Cindy, especially, has tried to create evidence to blame others for what her daughter has done. Obstructing justice, IMO.

[need2no]

What year was it?

(But you still walk around the car even if front wheel)

I think '99.

And you're right, the tow driver would be all around the car.

[onlykaty]

She gave an honest answer to the question she was asked. You think she should have lied for fear of sounding "socially retarted" as so eloquently described by DTViewer?

I would have to question Cindy's honesty, since Casey's arrest. I would say more hostility than anything..jmo

[kakax]

She gave an honest answer to the question she was asked. You think she should have lied for fear of sounding "socially retarted" as so eloquently described by DTViewer?

She was not asked her opinion on where Zenaida fell on a scale of 1-10. Sorry, nice try.

[caphill]

I have to laugh at this. I am not saying or even thinking Tony not smelling the SMELL means he had something to do with anything at all. I have other thoughts, I will keep them to myself.

I will comment further on your speech and allow you to see what you are actually saying.

You are shouting from the roof top how bad this smell was, you have given many examples of who all shouted how bad this smell was, but when Tony says, huh, I didn't smell anything, you quietly say , well I believe him.

Thats great, I do TOO!

You know why, maybe he didn't smell anything that day , maybe its because the body was not in the trunk at that time, maybe it never was? See how things like this can make one scratch their head. I must take EVERY little thing into account, same as each of you must take every little thing into account.

I will ignore nothing big, nor small. I will take everything into account. In the end it means nothing since I will not be a juror, but let me tell you if my life was on the line, I would hope that this would be how jurors operate!


It is an accepted fact the body of Caylee was not in the trunk from June 26th/27th through July 15th. It is an accepted fact there was a bag of garbage that sat in the trunk for 18or 19 days. It is an accepted fact the tow yard owner opened the trunk to a horrific smell, removed the garbage that was infested with flies and maggots and threw it in the dumpster. It is a known fact the flies and maggots were still feasting on the garbage on the 15th of July.

Tony didn't smell anything on the 26th/27th, The tow truck driver who was up close to be able to hook the car up for tow didn't smell anything. Tow yard owner did start to smell foul odor as he checked the car after a time on his lot. This indicates the car got smelly from the garbage as time progressed after the car was towed.

[TaraCrazyHair]

LTNS !! :seeya:


Guess not. He said Casey told him Caylee was either with the nanny or her parents.

Did you read the entemologist's report?
I have and I am confused a bit


Good to see you (:

[TaraCrazyHair]

It is an accepted fact the body of Caylee was not in the trunk from June 26th/27th through July 15th. It is an accepted fact there was a bag of garbage that sat in the trunk for 18or 19 days. It is an accepted fact the tow yard owner opened the trunk to a horrific smell, removed the garbage that was infested with flies and maggots and threw it in the dumpster. It is a known fact the flies and maggots were still feasting on the garbage on the 15th of July.

Tony didn't smell anything on the 26th/27th, The tow truck driver who was up close to be able to hook the car up for tow didn't smell anything. Tow yard owner did start to smell foul odor as he checked the car after a time on his lot. This indicates the car got smelly from the garbage as time progressed after the car was towed.


That is my take as well

[kakax]

It is an accepted fact the body of Caylee was not in the trunk from June 26th/27th through July 15th. It is an accepted fact there was a bag of garbage that sat in the trunk for 18or 19 days. It is an accepted fact the tow yard owner opened the trunk to a horrific smell, removed the garbage that was infested with flies and maggots and threw it in the dumpster. It is a known fact the flies and maggots were still feasting on the garbage on the 15th of July.

Tony didn't smell anything on the 26th/27th, The tow truck driver who was up close to be able to hook the car up for tow didn't smell anything. Tow yard owner did start to smell foul odor as he checked the car after a time on his lot. This indicates the car got smelly from the garbage as time progressed after the car was towed.

It is an accepted fact, after this document dump, that the insects were "feasting" on the grave wax on the paper towel and not the peices of plastic or cardboard found in the trashbag. There was no food in that trashbag. Hardly any remnants of food. Look at the pictures of the trash.

Show me one morsel of food.

This grave wax still had flies on it 3 months later in October when the adult flies were taken from the grave wax.

[onlykaty]

That is my take as well


Thats your opinion and your privilege to say so, mine is it was the smell of where Caylee's dead body had lain after being murdered by her mother.


as always jmo

[Dtviewer3]

It is an accepted fact the body of Caylee was not in the trunk from June 26th/27th through July 15th. It is an accepted fact there was a bag of garbage that sat in the trunk for 18or 19 days. It is an accepted fact the tow yard owner opened the trunk to a horrific smell, removed the garbage that was infested with flies and maggots and threw it in the dumpster. It is a known fact the flies and maggots were still feasting on the garbage on the 15th of July.

Tony didn't smell anything on the 26th/27th, The tow truck driver who was up close to be able to hook the car up for tow didn't smell anything. Tow yard owner did start to smell foul odor as he checked the car after a time on his lot. This indicates the car got smelly from the garbage as time progressed after the car was towed.

Your facts are wrong.

Tony was never near the car on the 26th/27th. The car was dumped at amscott, and tony never went near it.


Your post in no way indicates that the garbage had anything to do with the smell in the car. You are coming up with conclusions with no facts to back them up. We have seen the pictures of the garbage from the bag. There was no food material present to smell. I dont know why you keep insisting this as fact with nothing to back up your assertion?

BTW, the car still smelled of decomp after 6 months. Fact.

[Dtviewer3]

That is my take as well

Go look at the pictures of the garbage from the bag.

There was NO food product.

Why would a trunk smell like decomp over 6 months after a bag with NO food had been in it?

[impartial]

It is an accepted fact the body of Caylee was not in the trunk from June 26th/27th through July 15th. It is an accepted fact there was a bag of garbage that sat in the trunk for 18or 19 days. It is an accepted fact the tow yard owner opened the trunk to a horrific smell, removed the garbage that was infested with flies and maggots and threw it in the dumpster. It is a known fact the flies and maggots were still feasting on the garbage on the 15th of July.

Tony didn't smell anything on the 26th/27th, The tow truck driver who was up close to be able to hook the car up for tow didn't smell anything. Tow yard owner did start to smell foul odor as he checked the car after a time on his lot. This indicates the car got smelly from the garbage as time progressed after the car was towed.




This makes more sense to me as well rather than the odor got worse after the decomposing event was removed, and testing of the trunk, the trunk liner, carpet, wheel wells at the FBI lab showed no DNA ... if there was decomposing liquid in the trunk, there would be DNA from that liquid.

When I clean out my koi pond, if I leave the sludge in the trash bin for more than a couple of days, when I open the bin, it literally gags you .. and the bin smells to high heaven for months.

imo

[TaraCrazyHair]

Thats your opinion and your privilege to say so, mine is it was the smell of where Caylee's dead body had lain after being murdered by her mother.


as always jmo

The smell would only linger depending on how long the body was there for the human nose

[onlykaty]

Go look at the pictures of the garbage from the bag.

There was NO food product.

Why would a trunk smell like decomp over 6 months after a bag with NO food had been in it?

Its a losing battle, none is so blind as those that will not see. Love your tenacity. :wub:

[Dtviewer3]

The smell would only linger depending on how long the body was there for the human nose

Huh?

Where would you ever get that idea?

[onlykaty]

The smell would only linger depending on how long the body was there for the human nose

Are you kidding me? ok, I'm done with this nonscense..lol..carry on.

[impartial]

Go look at the pictures of the garbage from the bag.

There was NO food product.

Why would a trunk smell like decomp over 6 months after a bag with NO food had been in it?


Was there something with brown liquid in the trunk? Or was that at the crime scene?

[kakax]

This makes more sense to me as well rather than the odor got worse after the decomposing event was removed, and testing of the trunk, the trunk liner, carpet, wheel wells at the FBI lab showed no DNA ... if there was decomposing liquid in the trunk, there would be DNA from that liquid.

When I clean out my koi pond, if I leave the sludge in the trash bin for more than a couple of days, when I open the bin, it literally gags you .. and the bin smells to high heaven for months.

imo

Extracting DNA from grave wax is a science that is just being undertaken. There were several links to this in previous discussions we have had about this.

[Dtviewer3]

Was there something with brown liquid in the trunk? Or was that at the crime scene?

Crime scene.

[Mel]

Yes, and the car was backed in to the spot it was found.

you're right...i had forgotten that also...i imagine the tow truck driver, simply jumped out & hooked the car up, like he does all the time...i'm sure it didn't take long at all...if he had a cold, i don't find it odd he didn't smell anything...i don't imagine he was actually up & close to the vehicle for long, other than to hook it up, from under the front & go....

i also don't find it odd that Tony claims he didn't smell anything....from what i remember reading, he said Casey didn't want him to bother with helping her, when she was putting gas in the car....if i'm not mistaken, didn't Tony stand around his own vehicle while she put the gas in??...or did he stay in his vehicle???...i can't remember, but i DO remember thinking Casey didn't want him too close to the car....(when she ran out of gas)

[TaraCrazyHair]

Go look at the pictures of the garbage from the bag.

There was NO food product.

Why would a trunk smell like decomp over 6 months after a bag with NO food had been in it?

Wasn't there a pizza box?

[Dtviewer3]

This makes more sense to me as well rather than the odor got worse after the decomposing event was removed, and testing of the trunk, the trunk liner, carpet, wheel wells at the FBI lab showed no DNA ... if there was decomposing liquid in the trunk, there would be DNA from that liquid.

When I clean out my koi pond, if I leave the sludge in the trash bin for more than a couple of days, when I open the bin, it literally gags you .. and the bin smells to high heaven for months.

imo

Dont mean to harp on this, but its just not reasonable to me to believe that a bag without ANY food at all, just empty boxes and cans, could cause a trunk to smell like 'a damn dead body'.

And even if there had been some magical mixture of food that stunk like decomp, I cant imagine there being enough, or as potent a mixture to still cause the car to 'smell of decomp' over 6 moths later.

Its just not reasonable......

[TaraCrazyHair]

INVENTORY OF TRASH BAG IN VEHICLE STATE EVIDENCE
One 12oz can of Pepsi (empty)
One 12oz can of Mountain Dew (empty)
One 12oz can of Dr. Pepper (empty)
One 12oz can of Chery Coke Zero (empty)
One 12oz can of Milwaukee Best Light (empty)
One 12oz can of Coke Classic (empty)
Two 12oz cans of Sprite (empty)
One 23oz container of Crystal Light (small amount of brown lq)
One container of Copenhagen chew (empty)
One container of Oscar Mayer Hard Salami (empty)
One Pizza box (empty)
One cardboard container of Kraft Velveeta Cheese (empty)
Two cardboard contaiers of Kraft Velveeta dinners (empty)
One balck plastic container (possibly from 1 of the Velveeta Dinners (empty)
One cardbaord container of Cherry Coke (empty)
One 23oz bag of Stouffer’s Skillet dinner (empty)
One 80oz bottle of Arm & Hammer detergent (empty)
One 5.5oz can of Kiwi sneaker cleaner
Five fabric softener sheets
Miscellaneous papers, and napkins

[Dtviewer3]

Wasn't there a pizza box?

Yes, an EMPTY pizza box. No pizza.

[Mel]

It is an accepted fact, after this document dump, that the insects were "feasting" on the grave wax on the paper towel and not the peices of plastic or cardboard found in the trashbag. There was no food in that trashbag. Hardly any remnants of food. Look at the pictures of the trash.

Show me one morsel of food.

This grave wax still had flies on it 3 months later in October when the adult flies were taken from the grave wax.

the grave wax thing is interesting....so obviously Casey used paper towels to try to clean up the trunk....wonder why she left the towels IN the trunk???...maybe in HER mind, simply leaving it all in the vehicle was ok, since she just abandoned it?

[kakax]

D.P. Lyle, MD said, on October 4, 2009 at 9:03 am Adipocere is mostly soap—the chemical alteration of body fat to a soap-like substance—so it would have few if any cells and no DNA. There could be some cells or tissue bits from the decaying body associated with it so DNA might be available through those cells. It might not be intact and usable though.




http://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/dead-folks-and-decay/

[Mel]

Wasn't there a pizza box?

right, but no pizza was in it...

[TaraCrazyHair]

Dont mean to harp on this, but its just not reasonable to me to believe that a bag without ANY food at all, just empty boxes and cans, could cause a trunk to smell like 'a damn dead body'.

And even if there had been some magical mixture of food that stunk like decomp, I cant imagine there being enough, or as potent a mixture to still cause the car to 'smell of decomp' over 6 moths later.

Its just not reasonable......

I don't know -- if it was fresh enough for maggots -- it was fresh enough to smell

IMO

Someday i will get to spend more than a few minutes here to discuss but that is my impression

[Dtviewer3]

Was there something with brown liquid in the trunk? Or was that at the crime scene?

My mistake...Tara just posted an inventory from the trash. There was a crystel light container with a small amount of a brown liquid.

[Dtviewer3]

I don't know -- if it was fresh enough for maggots -- it was fresh enough to smell

IMO

Someday i will get to spend more than a few minutes here to discuss but that is my impression

The maggots were on the paper towels with the grave wax.

[impartial]

INVENTORY OF TRASH BAG IN VEHICLE STATE EVIDENCE
One 12oz can of Pepsi (empty)
One 12oz can of Mountain Dew (empty)
One 12oz can of Dr. Pepper (empty)
One 12oz can of Chery Coke Zero (empty)
One 12oz can of Milwaukee Best Light (empty)
One 12oz can of Coke Classic (empty)
Two 12oz cans of Sprite (empty)
One 23oz container of Crystal Light (small amount of brown lq)
One container of Copenhagen chew (empty)
One container of Oscar Mayer Hard Salami (empty)
One Pizza box (empty)
One cardboard container of Kraft Velveeta Cheese (empty)
Two cardboard contaiers of Kraft Velveeta dinners (empty)
One balck plastic container (possibly from 1 of the Velveeta Dinners (empty)
One cardbaord container of Cherry Coke (empty)
One 23oz bag of Stouffer’s Skillet dinner (empty)
One 80oz bottle of Arm & Hammer detergent (empty)
One 5.5oz can of Kiwi sneaker cleaner
Five fabric softener sheets
Miscellaneous papers, and napkins


Thanks Tara,

I thought there was something with brown liquid in the trunk.

[kakax]

the grave wax thing is interesting....so obviously Casey used paper towels to try to clean up the trunk....wonder why she left the towels IN the trunk???...maybe in HER mind, simply leaving it all in the vehicle was ok, since she just abandoned it?

I'm thinking she saw how useless it was to try to clean the trunk. She may have made an attempt, but the smell wasn't diminishing. I doubt she wanted to spend much time with her nose in the trunk with the horrific smell.

She knew the smell wasn't coming from the trash bag, so why throw it out. I just think she is extremely lazy.

[Dtviewer3]

INVENTORY OF TRASH BAG IN VEHICLE STATE EVIDENCE
One 12oz can of Pepsi (empty)
One 12oz can of Mountain Dew (empty)
One 12oz can of Dr. Pepper (empty)
One 12oz can of Chery Coke Zero (empty)
One 12oz can of Milwaukee Best Light (empty)
One 12oz can of Coke Classic (empty)
Two 12oz cans of Sprite (empty)
One 23oz container of Crystal Light (small amount of brown lq)
One container of Copenhagen chew (empty)
One container of Oscar Mayer Hard Salami (empty)
One Pizza box (empty)
One cardboard container of Kraft Velveeta Cheese (empty)
Two cardboard contaiers of Kraft Velveeta dinners (empty)
One balck plastic container (possibly from 1 of the Velveeta Dinners (empty)
One cardbaord container of Cherry Coke (empty)
One 23oz bag of Stouffer’s Skillet dinner (empty)
One 80oz bottle of Arm & Hammer detergent (empty)
One 5.5oz can of Kiwi sneaker cleaner
Five fabric softener sheets
Miscellaneous papers, and napkins

Nothing that would cause a car to smell like decomposition 6 months later.

[Dtviewer3]

Thanks Tara,

I thought there was something with brown liquid in the trunk.

Yea, i posted a correction above when I saw taras post.

I really dont see anything on that list that would cause a car to smell for 6 months.

[Jester]

Close up on the skin condition.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/CaseyAnthonyBack_sm.jpg

It reminds me of the fairy tales I heard as a child where the nasty people would grow warts and other nasty things on their skin.

[caphill]

Thats your opinion and your privilege to say so, mine is it was the smell of where Caylee's dead body had lain after being murdered by her mother.


as always jmo

In your opinion, how do you explain a bloating decomposing body lying on carpet in the trunk of a car and no forensics can be found on that carpet. FBI lab found no DNA, no evidence of human fluid or decompositon on anything in that trunk.

[TaraCrazyHair]

The maggots were on the paper towels with the grave wax.

Maggots had to be in the trash as well, right? On the pizza box?

I seem to remember that

[kakax]

In your opinion, how do you explain a bloating decomposing body lying on carpet in the trunk of a car and no forensics can be found on that carpet. FBI lab found no DNA, no evidence of human fluid or decompositon on anything in that trunk.


I'm not Katy, but I do believe that there are decompositional fluids that do not have DNA in them. Grave wax is one of them.

[Mel]

Thanks Tara,

I thought there was something with brown liquid in the trunk.

i think the brown liquid in the Crystal Lite bottle, was Crystal Lite...probably tea?...jmo

[TaraCrazyHair]

Nothing that would cause a car to smell like decomposition 6 months later.

6 months?
:confused:

[kakax]

6 months?
:confused:

There were reports that the car still smelled just a few months ago.

[impartial]

Dont mean to harp on this, but its just not reasonable to me to believe that a bag without ANY food at all, just empty boxes and cans, could cause a trunk to smell like 'a damn dead body'.

And even if there had been some magical mixture of food that stunk like decomp, I cant imagine there being enough, or as potent a mixture to still cause the car to 'smell of decomp' over 6 moths later.

Its just not reasonable......


I understand. For me, it's not reasonable that the smell would get worse over time when the body is not longer in the car, and there are no decomposing liquids found in the car ... unless, as I said earlier, there is a report that hasn't been released yet. But to date, the FBI reports are negative for decomposing liquids.

I'm certainly not saying that because I don't believe the smell is from human decomp. that equates to Caylee not being in the trunk.

I just know that I have smelled trash that smells like a dead body.

imo

[Dtviewer3]

In your opinion, how do you explain a bloating decomposing body lying on carpet in the trunk of a car and no forensics can be found on that carpet. FBI lab found no DNA, no evidence of human fluid or decompositon on anything in that trunk.

The FBI found grave wax on the paper towels in the trunk.

Also, dr Haskell mentions Decompositional fluid on the carpeting a few times in his report. So we are wondering what that means.

[Dtviewer3]

Maggots had to be in the trash as well, right? On the pizza box?

I seem to remember that

The paper towels were waded up and thrown in the trash. Dont know if I have read anything specific about maggots being on the pizza box though.

[Mel]

The FBI found grave wax on the paper towels in the trunk.

Also, dr Haskell mentions Decompositional fluid on the carpeting a few times in his report. So we are wondering what that means.

oh my...help me out, please....isn't grave wax, decomposition?????

[kakax]

I understand. For me, it's not reasonable that the smell would get worse over time when the body is not longer in the car, and there are no decomposing liquids found in the car ... unless, as I said earlier, there is a report that hasn't been released yet. But to date, the FBI reports are negative for decomposing liquids.

I'm certainly not saying that because I don't believe the smell is from human decomp. that equates to Caylee not being in the trunk.

I just know that I have smelled trash that smells like a dead body.

imo

As far as I know, LE hasn't cleaned the car. There were decompositional fluids on the carpet that dna, as of yet, has not been extracted. It says this in the documents. There is probably some fluid that is still left in the car after seeping through the carpet. The gases probably seeped into the fabrics in the car as well and without using enzymes that professional crime scene clean up crews would use, that smell is just going to get worse.

DNA isn't in all decompositional byproducts as we see with grave wax. I don't understand why that is so hard to get?

[Dtviewer3]

6 months?
:confused:

From the entomolgy report Dr haskell mentions the smell and that 6 months had passed.
Others have mentioned that the car still smells as of very recently.

[kakax]

Decomposition fluids would have DNA. If the fluids from a decomposing body had seeped into the carpet as was alleged and suggested and was the cause of the stain in the trunk that was carpeted, then DNA should have been able to be extracted.

That was a big stain!

The contents in the trunk and listed items as having been empty?

That is not to say they were empty when they were in the garbage bags originally! They could easily have been HALF full and the bugs polished off that organic matter, as that is what they feed on.

No DNA of a dead body in trunk has been found. They have suggested through a new science that AIR samples suggest there was decomposition occurring in the trunk, but as we can conclude organic matter decomposes and what follows is different species of flies that feed on this organic matter. I want to see some DNA. DNA has been extracted from hard wood floors after a murder 20 years later, there should be ample DNA in the carpet stain if the stain was from a decomposing body.

So what was the stain? If it wasn't decompositional fluids, but reeked of decompositional fluids, what was it?

[Dtviewer3]

oh my...help me out, please....isn't grave wax, decomposition?????

Grave wax forms from fatty tissues breaking down.

(But doesnt have DNA)

[kakax]

Do you all honestly believe that a piece of bologna or anything in a lean cuisine type plastic meal plate would have led to a smell that even George described as decomposition, would cause such a smell?

I don't buy it. You can't sell it and neither can the defense.

I am not a DNA expert. None of you are either. Just using my common sense.

[Dtviewer3]

I understand. For me, it's not reasonable that the smell would get worse over time when the body is not longer in the car, and there are no decomposing liquids found in the car ... unless, as I said earlier, there is a report that hasn't been released yet. But to date, the FBI reports are negative for decomposing liquids.

I'm certainly not saying that because I don't believe the smell is from human decomp. that equates to Caylee not being in the trunk.

I just know that I have smelled trash that smells like a dead body.

imo

I have always heard from people who have smelled human decomp that it is very unique.

[Mel]

Grave wax forms from fatty tissues breaking down.

(But doesnt have DNA)

i gotcha, thanks....i just did a search...it forms on cheeks, buttocks, where there's fat...is it possible Casey tried to clean up Caylee, a bit???...like wipe her down, thinking it would lessen the smell?...maybe she put her in the pool, then wiped her down with the paper towels??...i know, i know...a bit 'out there', but that 'bug expert' report's got me thinking...

[need2no]

What is grave wax?

Adipocere (grave wax) forms in fatty regions of the decomposing body including the cheeks. Grave wax, or adipocere, is a crumbly white, waxy substance that accumulates on those parts of the body that contain fat - the cheeks, breasts, abdomen and buttocks. It is the product of a chemical reaction in which fats react with water and hydrogen in the presence of bacterial enzymes, breaking down into fatty acids and soaps.

WARNING-graphic picture
http://www.deathonline.net/decomposition/body_changes/grave_wax.htm

[kakax]

Ever have a garbage bag leak? It could have been the fluids from all those cans that seeped out, it could have been the gooey remnants from all those frozen dinners and cheese containers. As i say who knows that the contents of what were found empty were not empty when placed in garbage bags. I have yet to ever encounter a nice smelling clean bag of garbage.

That was the cleanest trash I have ever seen. You wouldn't get that in my house. I take out the trash weekly and I would never mistake the nasty smells coming from my trash as decomposition. Sorry. I don't puke when I come into contact with week old garbage. I live in GA where it is even more humid and hot than in Florida. At least in Florida they have breezes that come off the sea that help somewhat with humidity.

[Mel]

Do you all honestly believe that a piece of bologna or anything in a lean cuisine type plastic meal plate would have led to a smell that even George described as decomposition, would cause such a smell?

I don't buy it. You can't sell it and neither can the defense.

I am not a DNA expert. None of you are either. Just using my common sense.

i agree kakax...in the interviews betw George & LE, it's obvious George knew it was decompostition...if George tries to change the story, those interviews will bite him in the azz, at trial......even Lee said it was like a "wave" of smell..like it kept coming, stronger & stronger, hitting him in the face

[impartial]

I have always heard from people who have smelled human decomp that it is very unique.


I am familiar with the smell. My aunt owns several morturaries.

[Jester]

I found contradictions through out the report also. I read it twice and found Dr. Haskell's statements regarding the reduced numbers of blowfly colonization interesting and confusing. He later addresses the same issue by saying the body could have been stored in a location that excluded initial colonization. The blow flies are first to find and use a fresh dead body is a quote from Dr. Haskell.

His continued mention of the reduced number of blow flies in the trunk and the dump site caused me to wonder if Caylee had been dumped after a much more advanced decomposition had occurred. The idea that a trunk of car could exclude initial colonization is questionable in my view. IIRC, that was still live insect infestation in the bags and soil. Would that be likely after 6 months.

He did state that these species can also be found on decaying organic matter from other sources. No kidding, Sherlock! We all know that flies like decaying matter whether it a dead body or not.

I look forward to your views of his report and whether he left us with more questions than answers.

Can you cite any pages.

TIA

[need2no]

That was the cleanest trash I have ever seen. You wouldn't get that in my house. I take out the trash weekly and I would never mistake the nasty smells coming from my trash as decomposition. Sorry. I don't puke when I come into contact with week old garbage. I live in GA where it is even more humid and hot than in Florida. At least in Florida they have breezes that come off the sea that help somewhat with humidity.

That is some clean looking trash alright. Here's the link for the pics:

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20320624/detail.html

The Crystal Lite looks like raspberry tea.

[Jester]

lol. I'd also like a report on TonE's sense of smell. How acute is it? Does TonE have allergies? Sinus congestion? A deviated septum?

He has a drug habit, which is enough to interfere with an acute sense of smell.

[charmin 66]

What is grave wax?

Adipocere (grave wax) forms in fatty regions of the decomposing body including the cheeks. Grave wax, or adipocere, is a crumbly white, waxy substance that accumulates on those parts of the body that contain fat - the cheeks, breasts, abdomen and buttocks. It is the product of a chemical reaction in which fats react with water and hydrogen in the presence of bacterial enzymes, breaking down into fatty acids and soaps.

WARNING-graphic picture
http://www.deathonline.net/decomposition/body_changes/grave_wax.htm

OMG the poor pig. :sad:

[Dtviewer3]

I am familiar with the smell. My aunt owns several morturaries.

Gotcha.
So we have the body farm saying the trunk carpet analysis is consistent with a deompositional event in the trunk (not the air test), we have grave wax in the trunk, we have the cadaver dog hitting on the trunk, we have multiple people familiar with Human decomp testifying that they recognized the smell of human decomp, and a dead Caylee.

And you are going with the trash did it?

:confused:

[Mel]

That was the cleanest trash I have ever seen. You wouldn't get that in my house. I take out the trash weekly and I would never mistake the nasty smells coming from my trash as decomposition. Sorry. I don't puke when I come into contact with week old garbage. I live in GA where it is even more humid and hot than in Florida. At least in Florida they have breezes that come off the sea that help somewhat with humidity.

i empty nasty garbage cans for a living, during the summer...(well, it's one part of my job)....we're talking food of all kinds, & dead fish, sour chicken liver, beer cans/bottles, etc....cans that are slam packed, & sometimes have maggots on them....of course they don't smell good, but from everything i've heard/read, it's nothing like a dead human body.....chicken liver that's been sitting in the sun for a day or 2, has been known to make me gag...

[Jester]

Good job! You whipped those babies out, lol. :thumbup:

Once I got started, there was no turning back.

Wasted paper or end run.

Now, they should be delivered.

[Dtviewer3]

Can you cite any pages.

TIA

The first link to the entamology reports that des put in the links section has the report cap is talking about.

[kakax]

DNA is extracted from cigarette butts lying in the open elements.
DNA would be evident in fluids from a decomposing body.
Decomposing flesh consists of body tissues turning to mush, skin peels off like slime ( yes gross ) most people lose bowel and bladder function at the time of death, DNA would have been discovered from that stain had it been from a body. NO DNA was found. The stain was relatively FRESH, 20 years had not elapsed.

Where oh where is the DNA?

I didn't say decompositional fluids didn't have dna in them. I just explained that none of us know what the fluids were. The fluids smelled like decomposition.

Before tonight, I am guessing that a lot of us thought grave wax would have dna in it. It doesn't.

None of us are experts in this. We just don't know. All we know is that experts who have looked at the car, said there were decompositional fluid in the car.

I'd rather go on what they say, than what message board posters say without links.

[seeing_eye]

Most of you find something wrong with anything Cindy says. I don't think Zenaida is a ten either. I don't think she's too cute either. I guess we all have different tastes.

I don't think Zenaida is a ten either. But Cindy, as well as George, telling her that in the deposition was rude and showed a lack of class and tactfulness. And of course, that's JMO.

[kakax]

i empty nasty garbage cans for a living, during the summer...(well, it's one part of my job)....we're talking food of all kinds, & dead fish, sour chicken liver, beer cans/bottles, etc....cans that are slam packed, & sometimes have maggots on them....of course they don't smell good, but from everything i've heard/read, it's nothing like a dead human body.....chicken liver that's been sitting in the sun for a day or 2, has been known to make me gag...

I feel for ya! I can only imagine what large amounts of trash would smell like.

[kakax]

I honestly believe that garbage consisting of what was found in Casey's trunk if when put in the garbage bag had not been empty at the time and later eaten by the flies that are destined by nature to consume, then yes I believe those seeping cans, packages of salami, frozen steak dinners, assorted cheeses with the obvious propensity to contain saturated fatty acids ( what grave wax is ) could produce a smell that could knock you out. I know, every time I open the lid on my nasty trash can outside , it almost knocks me out. I could use a new garbage can, but times are tough :)

Ok, if you think that it isn't decomp fluid, but food seepage...don't you think the FBI would be able to say it was fluid from cheese, steak dinners and the like?

They sure would be able to test if the fluids came from left over salami.

[kakax]

I don't think Zenaida is a ten either. But Cindy, as well as George, telling her that in the deposition was rude and showed a lack of class and tactfulness. And of course, that's JMO.

You aren't "socially retarted" LOL

[Mel]

That is some clean looking trash alright. Here's the link for the pics:

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20320624/detail.html

The Crystal Lite looks like raspberry tea.

thanks, i hadn't seen these pics before....

[onlykaty]

Do you all honestly believe that a piece of bologna or anything in a lean cuisine type plastic meal plate would have led to a smell that even George described as decomposition, would cause such a smell?

I don't buy it. You can't sell it and neither can the defense.

I am not a DNA expert. None of you are either. Just using my common sense.

I'm not buying it either, in fact I don't even need it to know she is GUILTY. They didn't need it with Scott Peterson either...jmo

[Mel]

I feel for ya! I can only imagine what large amounts of trash would smell like.

yeah, i guess that was my point....real garbage stinks, after a few days in the heat, but it can't smell like a dead body, imo...looking at those pictures of the trash found in the car, there's no way that stuff caused a smell so strong, that George even thought it was decomp...

[kakax]

The first link to the entamology reports that des put in the links section has the report cap is talking about.

That report also has an explanation for why more blow flies weren't pressent. It satisfied me. The decomposition that was in the trunk was attracting the secondary insects that come with later decomposition.

We also need to remember that a blow flies leg was found. So they were there. Just not in large numbers.

[Mel]

I'm not buying it either, in fact I don't even need it to know she is GUILTY. They didn't need it with Scott Peterson either...jmo

good point....

[kakax]

yeah, i guess that was my point....real garbage stinks, after a few days in the heat, but it can't smell like a dead body, imo...looking at those pictures of the trash found in the car, there's no way that stuff caused a smell so strong, that George even thought it was decomp...

You are our resident trash expert. I believe you!!

[Jester]

It would, however, be noteworthy if he did in fact smell it, and denied that fact. I have always been a little curious about how quickly he distanced himself from her, not one visit to her ... he said she was really good with Caylee, yet, from the get-go, instead of concern for her or Caylee, he vamoosed. In hindsight, the smart thing to do. But curious to me that he had the foresight without knowing whether Caylee had been abducted by a stranger, to not show concern for the woman he had been dating and intimate with.

imo

They met in an online pick up joint ... myspace or whatever it is where people friend each other, meet and hook up or date, and sometimes end up dead. I think the word "vamoosed" is a little harsh. Did you really expect some guy that met some girl on the net to give up his life for a crazy girl like that... a girl that rather promptly crowded him and his friends - playing suzie homemaker while pretending to have a real job, and who murdered her daughter so she could do absolutely nothing?

Foresight? More like common sense.

[Mel]

That report also has an explanation for why more blow flies weren't pressent. It satisfied me. The decomposition that was in the trunk was attracting the secondary insects that come with later decomposition.

We also need to remember that a blow flies leg was found. So they were there. Just not in large numbers.

i'll have to read it again, but what i took from it was, there are reasons they weren't in large numbers...or possible reasons..

[seeing_eye]

Socially retarded, that is an interesting remark, since I have read so many deplorable descriptions aimed at Cindy herself, are those people who say such part of the socially retarded colony?

Cindy no doubt is vindicated to say just about anything after all that has been thrown at her. I for the life of me can't figure out why Cindy lied ( yep she lied ) when she told Zenaida she was CUTE, Zenaida ain't CUTE!

Cindy was just trying to make her feel better. That was quite nice of Cindy.

BBM
How do you know Cindy lied? How do you know what Cindy's intention was when she told Zenaida she was cute? Do you live inside Cindy's brain so that you can hear her thoughts?

[kakax]

I'm not buying it either, in fact I don't even need it to know she is GUILTY. They didn't need it with Scott Peterson either...jmo

Exactly. We have much more evidence than they had with Scott Peterson.

They found Caylee exactly where Casey said she was. Close to home.

[kakax]

They have reported that they discovered saturated fatty acids ( What they have dramatically called GRAVE WAX ) I have yet to see what they have concluded the STAIN consists of, however they have stated there is NO DNA in that stain.

I assure you if those stains were due to food seepage, the FBI would be able to determine that fairly easily I believe.

[need2no]

Ok, if you think that it isn't decomp fluid, but food seepage...don't you think the FBI would be able to say it was fluid from cheese, steak dinners and the like?

They sure would be able to test if the fluids came from left over salami.

If I'm not mistaken... old salami would just get hard and curl up, and possibly get moldy, but not turn to liquid.

[impartial]

Gotcha.
So we have the body farm saying the trunk carpet analysis is consistent with a deompositional event in the trunk (not the air test), we have grave wax in the trunk, we have the cadaver dog hitting on the trunk, we have multiple people familiar with Human decomp testifying that they recognized the smell of human decomp, and a dead Caylee.

And you are going with the trash did it?

:confused:


DT, I am not saying that Caylee wasn't in the trunk dead.


Interesting about the grave wax ... It typically doesn't start to form until 1 - 2 months after death; however, in the cases of drowning, it has been seen to form as early as 3 weeks. Adipocere formation is the last stage of decomp. http://www.angelfire.com/wa/zzaran/Adipocere.html

This site also indicates that adipocere can smell sweet, awful or no smell.

So, the more I dwelve, the more questions I have. Since adipocere is the last stage of decomp., the earliest it starts to form is 3 weeks, how can that adipocere be from Caylee? Especially since the body farm's analysis puts the decomp. at 2 1/2 days.

imo

[Mel]

I didn't say decompositional fluids didn't have dna in them. I just explained that none of us know what the fluids were. The fluids smelled like decomposition.

Before tonight, I am guessing that a lot of us thought grave wax would have dna in it. It doesn't.
None of us are experts in this. We just don't know. All we know is that experts who have looked at the car, said there were decompositional fluid in the car.

I'd rather go on what they say, than what message board posters say without links.

yes, i would have thought it did too....this grave wax is interesting...trying to place the timing of it, in regards to Caylee...

[kakax]

i'll have to read it again, but what i took from it was, there are reasons they weren't in large numbers...or possible reasons..

One reason was Caylee went into a later stage of decomposition quickly (because of the heat) and the blow flies are more attracted to the first stages of decomposition.

Another reason is that she was in the trunk. Coffin flies can get into coffins that are buried 6 feet underground and would have no problem getting into a sealed car.

The only way the blow flies would get to the body is when she would open the trunk. The car was sealed except when she would open that trunk. I don't think she opened it much, but there were several times we know she did open it.

[Mel]

I assure you if those stains were due to food seepage, the FBI would be able to determine that fairly easily I believe.

oh, no doubt in my mind ...

[kakax]

DT, I am not saying that Caylee wasn't in the trunk dead.


Interesting about the grave wax ... It typically doesn't start to form until 1 - 2 months after death; however, in the cases of drowning, it has been seen to form as early as 3 weeks. Adipocere formation is the last stage of decomp. http://www.angelfire.com/wa/zzaran/Adipocere.html

This site also indicates that adipocere can smell sweet, awful or no smell.

So, the more I dwelve, the more questions I have. Since adipocere is the last stage of decomp., the earliest it starts to form is 3 weeks, how can that adipocere be from Caylee? Especially since the body farm's analysis puts the decomp. at 2 1/2 days.

imo

This was also addressed in the documents. Because of the heat, she was in a much later state of decomposition. She was also a child and later decompositional events occur more quickly on children.

[Dtviewer3]

DT, I am not saying that Caylee wasn't in the trunk dead.


Interesting about the grave wax ... It typically doesn't start to form until 1 - 2 months after death; however, in the cases of drowning, it has been seen to form as early as 3 weeks. Adipocere formation is the last stage of decomp. http://www.angelfire.com/wa/zzaran/Adipocere.html

This site also indicates that adipocere can smell sweet, awful or no smell.

So, the more I dwelve, the more questions I have. Since adipocere is the last stage of decomp., the earliest it starts to form is 3 weeks, how can that adipocere be from Caylee? Especially since the body farm's analysis puts the decomp. at 2 1/2 days.

imo

Apidocere can start forming within days depending on the humidity, and heat.

By the way, I wasnt suggesting that you didnt believe Caylee wasnt in the trunk.

Just trying to wrap my head around the theories of food causing the smell when there was no food, but there are multiple things pointing to decomp in the trunk.

(Not trying to argue with you either, this has been one of the best discussions on here in quite a while)

[kakax]

There was much more potential from other contents from containers in the garbage, especially if they were not empty at the time. The greasy Salami is just one of them.

Like what? Do you not believe that the FBI would be able to tell if that stain was from food?

They can tell what you ate last my examining the contents of your stomach.

[Jester]

Evidence? nonsense? Let me be clearer for you, I am a patient one wouldn't you agree? Tony was standing by the back passenger door which is right by the gas tank of the car, when the trunk lid opens in that hot humid Florida sun and the pressure from all that built up air and gases comes wooshing out, one would think one would smell it. So Tony says he doesn't smell it. wonderful, so as you yourself say, there either was no body in that car to lend such a smell or Tony himself was just oblivious to the REEKING smell that is being screamed came from her trunk.

I'll close this with, Tony should have been able to smell the stench, as should have the tow guys and anyone else who came into contact with that car, On June 25th when Casey claimed fame to the dead animal smell on her car.


Maybe she hit a skunk, maybe that smell did go away as she said it had.

You believe her that she said her car smelled, then don't believe her when she said it stopped? She had nothing to hide at that point, no one was cuffing her then making her speak!

Evidence, there is clear evidence that she did not report her baby missing, there is not clear evidence that she killed her baby. She is to go to trial from what they suspect and what they want to use as evidence, it will be up to a jury to decide her fate, you, nor I , or anyone in this forum will be on that jury to decide her fate.

What we are able to do is talk about things pertaining to the case, isn't free speech and thought a wonderful thing?

I have read ALL the old documents and some of the latest from yesterday and just re-focused on this case, thought there was going to be some smoking gun, come to find out there was not. There may be that smoking gun to come in the next batch, we will all have to sit tight, wait and see.

Casey was fooling around with gas by the side of the car. The smell of gas is very strong, probably strong enough to burn the nostrils a bit and make them a bit oblivious to the stench of death 8-10 feet away. Didn't she volunteer to pour the gas?

Casey got lucky for 31 days.

[kakax]

Casey was fooling around with gas by the side of the car. The smell of gas is very strong, probably strong enough to burn the nostrils a bit and make them a bit oblivious to the stench of death 8-10 feet away. Didn't she volunteer to pour the gas?

Casey got lucky for 31 days.

Yes she did get lucky. She got lucky for 6 months with Caylee's body not being found.

[onlykaty]

My personal thanks to kakax and Mel for being here this last hour or so, your posts have been informative and explained well. :smile:

[Mel]

One reason was Caylee went into a later stage of decomposition quickly (because of the heat) and the blow flies are more attracted to the first stages of decomposition.

Another reason is that she was in the trunk. Coffin flies can get into coffins that are buried 6 feet underground and would have no problem getting into a sealed car.

The only way the blow flies would get to the body is when she would open the trunk. The car was sealed except when she would open that trunk. I don't think she opened it much, but there were several times we know she did open it.

thanks, i was reading it kind of fast, but what i read made sense to me...the report says that Caylee was most likely taken out of the trunk & dumped betw june 19th-22nd...i think i read that Caylee hadn't gotten to the 'bloated' stage yet, but was right at it...(i'm thinking aloud)....but her body had "purged"?....gosh, i need to read it again...

i agree with you...i don't think she opened the trunk many times, with that time frame above...

[need2no]

There was much more potential from other contents from containers in the garbage, especially if they were not empty at the time. The greasy Salami is just one of them.

There were only 5 food products: salami, pizza, velvetta cheese, 2-veletta dinners and a bag of Stouffer's skillet dinner, and they were all stated to be empty.

[kakax]

My personal thanks to kakax and Mel for being here this last hour or so, your posts have been informative and explained well. :smile:

It has been a good discussion, I agree. Will be interesting to see what the experts say when all of this evidence is being heard. I can't wait.

[Mel]

My personal thanks to kakax and Mel for being here this last hour or so, your posts have been informative and explained well. :smile:

lol, thanks, & you're welcome katy:)
...i've never been called a 'resident garbage expert' before lol

[kakax]

thanks, i was reading it kind of fast, but what i read made sense to me...the report says that Caylee was most likely taken out of the trunk & dumped betw june 19th-22nd...i think i read that Caylee hadn't gotten to the 'bloated' stage yet, but was right at it...(i'm thinking aloud)....but her body had "purged"?....gosh, i need to read it again...

i agree with you...i don't think she opened the trunk many times, with that time frame above...

That is what I remember too, Mel about the "bloated" stage. They said had she been in the bloated stage or exploded (sorry) there would have been much more fluid.

Very sad.

[need2no]

Yes she did get lucky. She got lucky for 6 months with Caylee's body not being found.

Not to mention the torrential rain.

[impartial]

This was also addressed in the documents. Because of the heat, she was in a much later state of decomposition. She was also a child and later decompositional events occur more quickly on children.


Dr. Vass's report states the chemicals released show a 2 1/2 day decompensation.

Adipocere doesn't form until after 1 - 2 month decompensation, unless in a water situation, then it can be 3 weeks.

Conflicting reports ... So which one is correct. She's either 2 1/2 days of decomp., or later by the entemologists report.

imo

[Mel]

Casey was fooling around with gas by the side of the car. The smell of gas is very strong, probably strong enough to burn the nostrils a bit and make them a bit oblivious to the stench of death 8-10 feet away. Didn't she volunteer to pour the gas?

Casey got lucky for 31 days.

yes, she wanted to put the gas in the car herself....

[kakax]

lol, thanks, & you're welcome katy:)
...i've never been called a 'resident garbage expert' before lol


LOLOLOL....experts of every kind are needed to put pieces together in cases like this!

[onlykaty]

That is what I remember too, Mel about the "bloated" stage. They said had she been in the bloated stage or exploded (sorry) there would have been much more fluid.

Very sad.

Breaks my heart, what a tragic ending for little Caylee. :sad:

[Mel]

That is what I remember too, Mel about the "bloated" stage. They said had she been in the bloated stage or exploded (sorry) there would have been much more fluid.

Very sad.

i know :(
typing it out & rereading what i posted sounded horrible

[kakax]

Dr. Vass's report states the chemicals released show a 2 1/2 day decompensation.

Adipocere doesn't form until after 1 - 2 month decompensation, unless in a water situation, then it can be 3 weeks.

Conflicting reports ... So which one is correct. She's either 2 1/2 days of decomp., or later by the entemologists report.

imo


What we don't know is if that 2 1/2 days is cumulative or not. Was it 2 1/2 days from when she died or were the gases 2 1/2 days worth of decomposition.

I don't think we know for sure until experts tell us.

[onlykaty]

8 to 10 feet away. I thought most here were up on the discovery documents? Tony stood right beside Casey, which was right at the back side of the car where that little gas cap is to pour gas in the car, you know at the back END. 8 to 10 feet away?

What I wonder is WHY Tony says several times he remembers screwing the caps back on the gas cans, I thought the gas cans were missing caps and had duct tape on them! How weird is that!

What are you trying to get at? Just lay it out.

[kakax]

8 to 10 feet away. I thought most here were up on the discovery documents? Tony stood right beside Casey, which was right at the back side of the car where that little gas cap is to pour gas in the car, you know at the back END. 8 to 10 feet away?

What I wonder is WHY Tony says several times he remembers screwing the caps back on the gas cans, I thought the gas cans were missing caps and had duct tape on them! How weird is that!



Why would you accuse someone of not being up on the documents. You, last night, discussed things about the docs without reading. It's hard to remember everything in this case.

I don't recall there not being gas caps on all of the gas cans, just the metal one. I assume he told police he was screwing on gas caps because that is what he did.

[kakax]

What are you trying to get at? Just lay it out.

Looks like to me she, for whatever reason, wants to cast doubt on Tone.

[need2no]

Yes, empty, but were they empty when placed in garbage originally? You see the frame, but not inside the picture, the inside of the picture is where the most details can be found.

I see the inside of the picture just fine, TYVM. There was no food in any of the containers....can you prove otherwise?

[onlykaty]

Looks like to me she, for whatever reason, wants to cast doubt on Tone.

Thats my take on it. If so, then come out with it, I'll discuss that. This beating the same dead horse with no further imput, is getting no where.

[Dtviewer3]

8 to 10 feet away. I thought most here were up on the discovery documents? Tony stood right beside Casey, which was right at the back side of the car where that little gas cap is to pour gas in the car, you know at the back END. 8 to 10 feet away?

What I wonder is WHY Tony says several times he remembers screwing the caps back on the gas cans, I thought the gas cans were missing caps and had duct tape on them! How weird is that!

The duct tape was put on the cans to label them.

NOT in place of caps:rolleyes:

[kakax]

I said I had not read the latest documents. I did not say I had not read all the prior documents, as I have, and agree details can be sketchy.

I have since read a lot of the latest documents :)

I have heard of only two gas cans, Tony states he was screwing caps on the gas cans after Casey filled the tank, if he had placed TAPE back over them, surely that would have stood out to him. I only mention it because there is big talk over the duct tape used to cover gas cans, and wonder when the caps got lost?

I know that George said the cap on one can was gone. I think he had 3 gas cans, but I am not 100% sure. 2 were plastic and 1 was metal.

[Dtviewer3]

I said I had not read the latest documents. I did not say I had not read all the prior documents, as I have, and agree details can be sketchy.

I have since read a lot of the latest documents :)

I have heard of only two gas cans, Tony states he was screwing caps on the gas cans after Casey filled the tank, if he had placed TAPE back over them, surely that would have stood out to him. I only mention it because there is big talk over the duct tape used to cover gas cans, and wonder when the caps got lost?

They didnt get lost.
George labled the cans so he knew which for the lawnmower and which for the weedeater.

[kakax]

Have a good night everyone! I'm up way too late LOL!

Was a fun discussion tonight!

[Jester]

8 to 10 feet away. I thought most here were up on the discovery documents? Tony stood right beside Casey, which was right at the back side of the car where that little gas cap is to pour gas in the car, you know at the back END. 8 to 10 feet away?

What I wonder is WHY Tony says several times he remembers screwing the caps back on the gas cans, I thought the gas cans were missing caps and had duct tape on them! How weird is that!

During the day today, TonE has been moved from the passenger door, to the back seat door, to the back of the car. Are you now saying that he was at the back of the car, behind the location where Casey was pouring gas into the tank? If he was not between Casey and the back of the car, which we know he wasn't, then he was closer to the front of the car near the doors.

The duct tape was not replacing the caps.

Which discovery documents are you referring to?

[impartial]

Apidocere can start forming within days depending on the humidity, and heat.

By the way, I wasnt suggesting that you didnt believe Caylee wasnt in the trunk.

Just trying to wrap my head around the theories of food causing the smell when there was no food, but there are multiple things pointing to decomp in the trunk.

(Not trying to argue with you either, this has been one of the best discussions on here in quite a while)


I didn't think you were trying to argue, I thought maybe I wasn't making myself clear. :wink:

We don't know what that stain in the car is. I surmise it isn't bodily fluids for several reasons ... no DNA, entemologist report that she hadn't yet purged, body farm's 2 1/2 day decomp. (if even human). The liquids in that stain could be from foods that turned to liquid (I have taken some pretty rank veggies/fruit that liquified and got lost in the back of the bin in the fridge).

Plants decompose, foods decompose. The smell could be from a decompensation event, just not necessarily a human decomp. event. Caylee was triple bagged, so it's easy to see why there wouldn't be DNA in the trunk. Once removed, if we are to believe George, Tony and the tow truck driver, there wasn't a smell in the trunk/car on the 24th, the 26th, or the 27th. Yet, the smell was horrid on the 16th of July. Why would it be from Caylee if not present on the 24th, 26th or 27th. Casey said the car smelled on the 25th. Can we rely on anything Casey says?

imo

[seeing_eye]

I honestly believe that garbage consisting of what was found in Casey's trunk if when put in the garbage bag had not been empty at the time and later eaten by the flies that are destined by nature to consume, then yes I believe those seeping cans, packages of salami, frozen steak dinners, assorted cheeses with the obvious propensity to contain saturated fatty acids ( what grave wax is ) could produce a smell that could knock you out. I know, every time I open the lid on my nasty trash can outside , it almost knocks me out. I could use a new garbage can, but times are tough :)

Are you saying you think the grave wax formed from food? :confused:

[onlykaty]

Have a good night everyone! I'm up way too late LOL!

Was a fun discussion tonight!


I'm out to, g'nite kakax, your input was great. Nite to all :seeya:.

[Jester]

Sleep well ...

but still, people getting a whiff of a dead body while filling up a gas tank is not relevant, particularly given all the other evidence. So what if he was too stoned, hung over, or overwhelmed with the smell of gas to pay attention. Casey was paying attention and noticed the smell of death in her car two days earlier on June 25th.

[Mel]

i'm glad i stopped in to read:)
....i didn't know there were new documents...i'm off to read that report again, by the 'bug expert' :seeya:

[kakax]

There has been great debate as to whether there was enough time to allow adipocere to develop, but the entomological report helps to set the record straight. Not only does the elevated heat of the trunk increase the possibility of adipocere development, but the moist dark environment does as well. Add to that the fact that corpses of toddlers and babies tend to develop adipocere much easier than those of adults, and the presence of “grave wax”, as it is called, is not unreasonable. There has been great debate as to whether there was enough time to allow adipocere to develop, but the entomological report helps to set the record straight. Not only does the elevated heat of the trunk increase the possibility of adipocere development, but the moist dark environment does as well. Add to that the fact that corpses of toddlers and babies tend to develop adipocere much easier than those of adults, and the presence of “grave wax”, as it is called, is not unreasonable.



http://www.thehinkymeter.com/?p=494


Here is Valhall's comments on the grave wax, just FYI. I'm out for good now.

[Dtviewer3]

I didn't think you were trying to argue, I thought maybe I wasn't making myself clear. :wink:

We don't know what that stain in the car is. I surmise it isn't bodily fluids for several reasons ... no DNA, entemologist report that she hadn't yet purged, body farm's 2 1/2 day decomp. (if even human). The liquids in that stain could be from foods that turned to liquid (I have taken some pretty rank veggies/fruit that liquified and got lost in the back of the bin in the fridge).

Plants decompose, foods decompose. The smell could be from a decompensation event, just not necessarily a human decomp. event. Caylee was triple bagged, so it's easy to see why there wouldn't be DNA in the trunk. Once removed, if we are to believe George, Tony and the tow truck driver, there wasn't a smell in the trunk/car on the 24th, the 26th, or the 27th. Yet, the smell was horrid on the 16th of July. Why would it be from Caylee if not present on the 24th, 26th or 27th. Casey said the car smelled on the 25th. Can we rely on anything Casey says?

imo

I dont get what you are saying here.

George never said there wasnt a smell that day. He never got close to the car was his original testimony.
The tow truck driver said he wouldnt have been able to smell it if there was because of his cold.
Tony is the only one who says he didnt smell anything, and was close enough. Is he telling the truth? Who knows.

But no where do I see that there wasnt a smell there on those days.

I would say if casey was complaining about the smell on the 25th, and there WAS a smell when the car was next found, that would be a pretty convincing argument that something in the car smelled.

I agree that if there was NO DNA in the stain, then the stain isnt from body fluids. But I dont think the smell has to be coming from the stain. I assume every bit of the trunk area has the smell.

[Dtviewer3]

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:YPnlc8YL0nwJ:www.bioedonline.org/news/news.cfm%3Fart%3D866+difference+between+grave+wax+ and+saturated+fatty+acid&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

This may help with understanding GRAVE WAX and FATTY ACID from FOOD , specifically butter and dairy products.

The dramatic terms being thrown around with out a SPEC of DNA is alarming. Finding a partial piece of a blow flies leg has been breaking news, as said earlier there must be some major de-comp going on at my house, yet I haven't smelled it. The COFFIN FLY though, that has to be the most dramatic YET! Coffin flies EAT organic matter, they swarm to decomposing organic matter, food ( organic matter decomposes) And so where are these latest document discovery to lead me?

I am really going to bed now :) maybe.


"The first necrophages observed on the body after death is the Calliphorid flies. The female green bottle fly (Lucilia cuprina in the United States) is generally the first to colonize the body; the second is the Hairy Maggot Blowfly, Chrysomya rufifacies.[6] Other fly families generally present during this stage are Sarcophagidae, Piophilidae, and Muscidae.[7]

Predators of both immature and adult flies are prevalent at the beginning stages of decomposition. These are important factors to consider when determining the insect colonization time.[7] Chrysomya rufifacies, the second fly to colonize, facultatively predates on fly larvae in its second and third larval instar. Saprinus pennsylvanicus, is a predaceous beetle in the United States that feeds on the early fly larvae"

[Dtviewer3]

Did you comment on the wrong post? My link you commented to was describing GRAVE WAX.

I have a big issue with the flies though :) I am seriously out for the night now, be back tomorrow!

Night,REST WELL !

Your post talked about flies:
"The dramatic terms being thrown around with out a SPEC of DNA is alarming. Finding a partial piece of a blow flies leg has been breaking news, as said earlier there must be some major de-comp going on at my house, yet I haven't smelled it. The COFFIN FLY though, that has to be the most dramatic YET! Coffin flies EAT organic matter, they swarm to decomposing organic matter, food ( organic matter decomposes) And so where are these latest document discovery to lead me?"

Did you forget...or are you starting your games again.

[*MoonRider*]

I've been to the Orange County jail site many times looking up various things. I just went there to see the regulations regarding mail, and they now have the INMATE HANDBOOK ONLINE. One of the things I read was it cost $5.00 for a sick call. or dental (sick) call visit, which is immediately deducted from your account. :w00t:

Here is the Handbook if anyone would like to read it.http://www.orangecountyfl.net/NR/rdonlyres/edjj3dhkrcnmfje73uk3lbalmnpz3vkfv7jxy5o3jzjexhc5qe tms72rlaz5s6xwdvzogodifymnm3fajgwutu47luc/InmateHandbookEnglish0609.pdf

[no1what]

Originally Posted by denjet
Holy Moly ... I must have scrolled right past this in yesterday's docs ...
Posted on WESH blog:
from RSFlorida
That is not all they have, media is not yet reporting it but she also had poisonous liquid in the car, taken into evidence. It is item designated 241 among docs released yesterday. Testing reveals it contains pesticide ingredients and wood alcohol. So you have a toxic and deadly liquid taken from her car and another toxic deadly liquid found along with remains....let's see defense explain that away...the info starts on page #11481 and results of it are on page 11553

Thanks to RSFlorida

Wow we must have all missed tht. Explains why the took the insecticide cans from the garage huh?


So did she spray Caylee's body with insecticide to keep the bugs off of her and that's how it got in the trunk????

[desmom]

I said I had not read the latest documents. I did not say I had not read all the prior documents, as I have, and agree details can be sketchy.

I have since read a lot of the latest documents :)

I have heard of only two gas cans, Tony states he was screwing caps on the gas cans after Casey filled the tank, if he had placed TAPE back over them, surely that would have stood out to him. I only mention it because there is big talk over the duct tape used to cover gas cans, and wonder when the caps got lost?

The duct tape was covering the vent hole on the gas can, not the hole used to pour out the gas.

pic #18 http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19105250/detail.html

[klock777]

I'm confussed....

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/1106/21540089.pdf

shows the request to lab for testing Q81 as being liquid from a Crystal Lite bottle found in car. Further in the docs, the lab says Q81 is clothing received from the medical examiners office.

Then later in docs it looks like it changes to Q241 being the liquid.

Anyone know what the liquid from the Crystal Lite bottle tested as?

[*MoonRider*]

Decomposition fluids would have DNA. If the fluids from a decomposing body had seeped into the carpet as was alleged and suggested and was the cause of the stain in the trunk that was carpeted, then DNA should have been able to be extracted.

That was a big stain!

The contents in the trunk and listed items as having been empty?

That is not to say they were empty when they were in the garbage bags originally! They could easily have been HALF full and the bugs polished off that organic matter, as that is what they feed on.

No DNA of a dead body in trunk has been found. They have suggested through a new science that AIR samples suggest there was decomposition occurring in the trunk, but as we can conclude organic matter decomposes and what follows is different species of flies that feed on this organic matter. I want to see some DNA. DNA has been extracted from hard wood floors after a murder 20 years later, there should be ample DNA in the carpet stain if the stain was from a decomposing body.

:confused: Are you saying that a deceased Caylee was not in the trunk?

[Holden]

And Casey under no pressure what so ever told her friend her car no longer smelled on the 27th. so on the 23rd Tony didn't notice a smell, on the 25th CASEY did, on the 27th Casey no longer smelled anything and on the 27th Amscott folks didn't either, then on the date the car got towed, again no one smelled the smell ,but in JULY when George picked up the car it stunk! Theres a lot of wiggle room there, or should I say reason for doubt.

casey SAID, casey NO LONGER SMELLED - are you trying to say here that casey tells the truth? From what we've seen of her, that would be pretty crazy. Come on - look at the simple facts here. Baby Caylee last seen with mom, mom goes partying for 31 days, something is rotting in her trunk, finally confesses she hasn't seen baby in 31 days. It doesn't take a scientist or a genius to figure what happened here. Again - something is rotting in her trunk, baby is missing. Oh, and ps, the tape on the gas can was to cover the vent hole.

[desmom]

Over 1,000 posts. I started a new daily thread

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=360418

[no1what]

barf:chicken:

So do you think Casey was taking shots for that ....... ????

What kind of medicine or shot would help cure that?

[farrahrani]

Yes, empty, but were they empty when placed in garbage originally? You see the frame, but not inside the picture, the inside of the picture is where the most details can be found.

Are you saying that there was food in the bag, made the trunk smell, and that someone went into that stinking trunk and ate it? :drool:

[Dtviewer3]

new thread-11-8