10/30, 10/31. 11/1

[AnnieKins]

There is some really good posts over on WS about this. Particularly some, IIRC, on a sticky thread which is titled something like "Myths and Explanations." Check it out. It's quite enlightening.

Got a link to that? I can't find anything on that board ever.

[AnnieKins]

Reading back, IMO, she didn't exactly "verify" the tats or the earring. Another thing to consider is whoever can register on here can claim to be anyone they wish to be, and state anything they wish to state, as the truth. I don't necessarily believe anything on the face of it.

Beyond that.....tats and earring....what in the world do they really mean in the scheme of things, as to Casey's guilt or innocence.

IMO.

Absolutely nothing. But they do confirm a lot of things about her parents and the way she was raised.

[AnnieKins]

Oh yes. Makes you really wonder why some people don't have anything more productive to do with their life. :confused:

I think this kind of creativity is a lot more productive than people sitting around criticizing those who actually DO something. :smile:

[crimeq]

I've been reading that too, and I can't wrap my head around how she came up with ZG at Sawgrass if she was doing those searches before. I've read that someone named Zenaida Gonzales got a traffice ticket around the same time that Casey and Amy did, all going to traffice court. I can see Casey using the name and setting up a myspace page with ZG name but how does that compute with the apt 210 ZG looked at and Casey knowing about it?

I think Casey learned about Zenaida Gonzales at the tattoo parlor, where Z's exboyfriend worked. I think she knew enough about her to start building a fictitious person based on her. Casey had several friends who lived at Sawgrass--in fact, wasn't it Annie who lived in Apt #218, which would be SOOOO close to #210?

At some point, there may have been discussion at the tattoo parlor about Zenaida looking for an apartment; maybe Casey was even asked for a recommendation to give to Zenaida.

You are right, that this is a sticking point -- how did Casey know Zenaida had looked at an apt. at Sawgrass? The only way I can put it together is if she learned about it through discussion of Zenaida at the tattoo parlor.

It does seem clear that Casey was hard at work "creating" a kidnapper. And then there's that googling for the 100th One Tree Hill show, about a nanny kidnapping a child ....

[crimeq]

Trying to catch up from last night, but:

The cremation diamond is just wild speculation. Someone mentioned it the other night and now it seems to have progressed to rumor status xp.

Considering how big that rock is and how much one that size would cost, I highly doubt that's a cremation diamond. The previous rumor was that they were wearing cremation jewelry holding the ashes. So what did they do, grab the teddy bear urn (again, another wild idea) gather up all the jewelry and send it to the jeweler to make Georgie an earring? Somehow I doubt that. I am betting on that teddy bear urn, or some kind of urn. Not because it is more tasteful, but it is the least expensive or troublesome.

I am betting George's new bauble, if it IS an earring (and there is still debate on that) is most likely a plain zircon.

JMO

Hi Farrah, you give more credit than I do. I think it's a cheap, flashy CZ :wink:

[snowflakes]

Oh WOW! I love Patricia Cornwell's books! In what context was Caylee mentioned?

I don't have the book handy, but I think the mention referred to missing persons. She mentions Natalee Holloway too.
May be more, but I've only read four chapters so far.

[Pruddennce]

It really makes ya wonder what the "explanation plan" was gonna be for Caylee being gone long term.

IMO, pretty simple. she was gearing up to go to California to 'visit' Mark Hawkins. we havent seen his statement. and for good reason, IMO.

MO is she was going to tell Mark Hawkins Cindy got custody. She would tell Cindy Caylee was with her in California.

how long that would last, anyone's guess....but IMO one can be sure C&G were not going to spring for a flight to California pronto...they were hurting for cash.

IMO, the car threw a wrench in her thought process.....I dont believe she is a long term planner....but IMO the thought crossed her mind as LE's investigative notes indicate she was talking to Mark H almost daily during the 'missing period'.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[crimeq]

Of course it was. That's Casey's mentality. Dumb move. She would have done better if she would have just left it alone.

I guess she figured if Zanny had a my space account then LE would say "Oh, there she is...There is a Zanny." :sneaky:

She should have posted some pics of a small white dog to solidify it--maybe a pom mix. :biggrin:

[crimeq]

Oh yes. Makes you really wonder why some people don't have anything more productive to do with their life. :confused:

There are some very clever videos out there about the Anthony family, and people creating those videos exhibit quite a lot of talent. Clearly they enjoy what they do. Why do you think this is unproductive for their lives?

[crimeq]

p.s. - maybe the family is wearing Caylee's ashes... I guess I'm hung up on Cindy's statement about picking out jewelry. I guess it's possible that both are true. Maybe she wanted George to help her pick out stuff from her *home collection* AND they also at some point got her ashes made into something to wear. I'm going with that.

She's into the mix and match I think. You know, baby ashes and a whole bunch of other stuff :smile:

I think they are wearing cremains jewelry. Links to a cremains website have been posted here in the past and in particular, there's a picture that appears to be an exact match to the bracelet Lee was sporting at the memorial circus.

[crimeq]

Honestly how can you decide you think *witness* is on the level by "the way he or she writes"? Do you not know that anyone who comes on a message board and is NOT who they say they are, WILL definitely write AS IF they are who they say they are? How easy to fool people on message boards! :laugh:

He/she MAY be who they say they are, but I would never, ever take anything as gospel truth without some proof. If you do, based on "how they write"......well, what can I say.

Are you new here, with your few posts, or are you wearing a new dress?

[crimeq]

ignore........

indeed ...

[Scampi]

I think Casey learned about Zenaida Gonzales at the tattoo parlor, where Z's exboyfriend worked. I think she knew enough about her to start building a fictitious person based on her. Casey had several friends who lived at Sawgrass--in fact, wasn't it Annie who lived in Apt #218, which would be SOOOO close to #210?

At some point, there may have been discussion at the tattoo parlor about Zenaida looking for an apartment; maybe Casey was even asked for a recommendation to give to Zenaida.

You are right, that this is a sticking point -- how did Casey know Zenaida had looked at an apt. at Sawgrass? The only way I can put it together is if she learned about it through discussion of Zenaida at the tattoo parlor.

It does seem clear that Casey was hard at work "creating" a kidnapper. And then there's that googling for the 100th One Tree Hill show, about a nanny kidnapping a child ....

Hasn't cynthia come up with a search she did that produced the One Tree Hill site yet? You know, like the absolutely ridiculous "chlorophyll" search she claims returned the How to make chloroform results.

BTW, that entire explanation of her being worried over the yappie yorkies ingesting chlorophyll is bogus, because they have chlorophyll tabs you give your dog to settle their stomachs and sweeten their breath.

[crimeq]

Personally, I give people the benefit of the doubt. Especially if it is known by their 'location' that they live in a certain area prior to the crime being committed that we're talking about on a message board.

IMO, *witness* who learned to play a new instrument after band camp, has been here for a while. She is not someone who came aboard, outta nowhere, saying that she lives next to the Anthony's and knows this, or heard that. IIRC, she's never said she's a direct neighbor anyway. She lives a subdivision or two over from them.

There have been others who claimed to be someone and I'm very doubtful of them. Especially when they come in, say one thing, and are never seen again. Wasn't there a poster who claimed to be neighbor Brian's wife a few weeks back? Taken with a grain of salt, by me.

"witness" does claim to be the next door neighbor (wife of the man who loaned Casey his shovel).

I think the musical poster of whom you speak is Really.

[charmin 66]

"witness" does claim to be the next door neighbor (wife of the man who loaned Casey his shovel).

I think the musical poster of whom you speak is Really.

I really don't think so crime.

[Scampi]

"witness" does claim to be the next door neighbor (wife of the man who loaned Casey his shovel).

I think the musical poster of whom you speak is Really.



That's how I remember it also.

[crimeq]

I really don't think so crime.

You don't think "witness" is the next door neighbor?

[Patty437]

I think Casey learned about Zenaida Gonzales at the tattoo parlor, where Z's exboyfriend worked. I think she knew enough about her to start building a fictitious person based on her. Casey had several friends who lived at Sawgrass--in fact, wasn't it Annie who lived in Apt #218, which would be SOOOO close to #210?

At some point, there may have been discussion at the tattoo parlor about Zenaida looking for an apartment; maybe Casey was even asked for a recommendation to give to Zenaida.

You are right, that this is a sticking point -- how did Casey know Zenaida had looked at an apt. at Sawgrass? The only way I can put it together is if she learned about it through discussion of Zenaida at the tattoo parlor.

It does seem clear that Casey was hard at work "creating" a kidnapper. And then there's that googling for the 100th One Tree Hill show, about a nanny kidnapping a child ....

Yeah, you could be right about that. I never knew ZG's BF had a connection at the tat parlor before I read it on WS.

[trich]

IMO, pretty simple. she was gearing up to go to California to 'visit' Mark Hawkins. we havent seen his statement. and for good reason, IMO.

MO is she was going to tell Mark Hawkins Cindy got custody. She would tell Cindy Caylee was with her in California.

how long that would last, anyone's guess....but IMO one can be sure C&G were not going to spring for a flight to California pronto...they were hurting for cash.

IMO, the car threw a wrench in her thought process.....I dont believe she is a long term planner....but IMO the thought crossed her mind as LE's investigative notes indicate she was talking to Mark H almost daily during the 'missing period'.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

I am also convinced she was wanting to go to Ca where Mark was and tried to get him to agree and buy her a ticket.
Also I agree she would have told Cindy Caylee was with her and tell Mark she was with Cindy.
I think leaving the car at Amscot was the flaw in her plan.
If the car had never been towed I think she would have stayed free and in Ca at least until that poor childs body was found.

[impartial]

I think Casey learned about Zenaida Gonzales at the tattoo parlor, where Z's exboyfriend worked. I think she knew enough about her to start building a fictitious person based on her. Casey had several friends who lived at Sawgrass--in fact, wasn't it Annie who lived in Apt #218, which would be SOOOO close to #210?

At some point, there may have been discussion at the tattoo parlor about Zenaida looking for an apartment; maybe Casey was even asked for a recommendation to give to Zenaida.

You are right, that this is a sticking point -- how did Casey know Zenaida had looked at an apt. at Sawgrass? The only way I can put it together is if she learned about it through discussion of Zenaida at the tattoo parlor.

It does seem clear that Casey was hard at work "creating" a kidnapper. And then there's that googling for the 100th One Tree Hill show, about a nanny kidnapping a child ....

Hi Crimeq,

I don't think Casey made up Zanny for kidnapping purposes ... Richard Grund said when they told Casey (after she and Jesse broke up) that they couldn't watch Caylee as much, Casey told him she had a nanny and mentioned her name being Zanny.

Ricardo told LE that Casey spoke of Zanny when they were dating, and he asked her what did the name Zanny stand for, and Casey told him Zenaida (although in the interview, they spell it Zenita).

So perhaps she knew of Zenaida's name from the tattoo parlor ... when did she start going there?

imo

[martha]

I really don;t care how many dogs CAYLEE talked about there was still no Nanny. In a lot of the pictures I seen of Caylee and casey there were dogs. Caylee could have been talking about anyone one dog. They have not found the nanny and I don;t think there ever was a nanny. Just one of casey;s made up storys. If someone elce killed Caylee why have they not found that person yet? cindy and george and lee should be looking for that person now. If they think casey did not harm Caylee then they need to find the person that did.jmho:wub:

[charmin 66]

You don't think "witness" is the next door neighbor?

No I don't, why do you?

[martha]

I am also convinced she was wanting to go to Ca where Mark was and tried to get him to agree and buy her a ticket.
Also I agree she would have told Cindy Caylee was with her and tell Mark she was with Cindy.
I think leaving the car at Amscot was the flaw in her plan.
If the car had never been towed I think she would have stayed free and in Ca at least until that poor childs body was found.ITA this was her plan but after the car was found she had to think of something elce and fast.Even to this day casey thinks everyone will believe her.jmho:wub:

[MiamiNice1]

Hiya Cri!! Because this is the last time Brian Burner sees her back the car into the garage, I believe she did the final packaging of Caylee then. According to the Hinky timeline from 3:pm until 6:53 p.m, almost four hours there is no phone activity at all. This is when she
threw Caylee's body in the swamp, imo.

It's also the night of the hotbody contest at Fusion. Having disposed of her "problem" casey anthony was able to dance the night away.......IMO

:cuss:

Good sleuthing, Scampi! It's hard to post the actual words and to reason this out :(:

If it happened as you say that Casey gets rid of the body on June 20th, then that means if Casey killed Caylee on June 16th, Caylee would have been in the trunk for 3.5-4 days - which fits into the decomp timeline of probability.

imo

[crimeq]

No I don't, why do you?

I give more cred to her being true than not -- I guess because of things she said about wanting to sell her house, getting phone calls, etc. -- it sounded real.

But one never knows online :unsure:

[Pruddennce]

Hasn't cynthia come up with a search she did that produced the One Tree Hill site yet? You know, like the absolutely ridiculous "chlorophyll" search she claims returned the How to make chloroform results.

BTW, that entire explanation of her being worried over the yappie yorkies ingesting chlorophyll is bogus, because they have chlorophyll tabs you give your dog to settle their stomachs and sweeten their breath.

not yet to my knowledge. and yes, her explanation was ridiculous, considering the search was done when she was at work....oops, forgot she says her work records might have mistakes...but of course!

those dogs are cared for....Im sure there is a vet in their lives. Cindy, the queen of nonsensical explanations.....

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[Lavinya]

"witness" does claim to be the next door neighbor (wife of the man who loaned Casey his shovel).

I think the musical poster of whom you speak is Really.

That's the way I understand it, too, crime.

Happy Halloween to all !!

[Julie Dupree]

I think Really is to busy with her power ball endeavors to be a witness.
JMO

[farrahrani]

I really don;t care how many dogs CAYLEE talked about there was still no Nanny. In a lot of the pictures I seen of Caylee and casey there were dogs. Caylee could have been talking about anyone one dog. They have not found the nanny and I don;t think there ever was a nanny. Just one of casey;s made up storys. If someone elce killed Caylee why have they not found that person yet? cindy and george and lee should be looking for that person now. If they think casey did not harm Caylee then they need to find the person that did.jmho:wub:


Bolding is mine.

Remember the source, lol. CINDY said Caylee talked about a dog. Therefore there was no dog. And reverse Cindy logic, if there was no dog, there was no Zanny. :biggrin:

[Julie Dupree]

Hi Crimeq,

I don't think Casey made up Zanny for kidnapping purposes ... Richard Grund said when they told Casey (after she and Jesse broke up) that they couldn't watch Caylee as much, Casey told him she had a nanny and mentioned her name being Zanny.

Ricardo told LE that Casey spoke of Zanny when they were dating, and he asked her what did the name Zanny stand for, and Casey told him Zenaida (although in the interview, they spell it Zenita).

So perhaps she knew of Zenaida's name from the tattoo parlor ... when did she start going there?

imo

I have thought for a long time that there was some other connection Casey had to Zenida other than the discarded registration card from the Sawgrass apartment. Maybe the tattoo parlor is that "some where else".

[Scampi]

I believe in the warped mind of casey anthony she used the name Zanny and Zeinada for three different purposes at different times.

The first time was when Richard Grund pressured her about watching Caylee and she came up with the Zanny the Nanny, which I believe she took out of that book.

Then, after June 16th, it became Zanny had Caylee, after July 15th it became Zenaida Ferandez Gonzalez kidnapped Caylee.

[achristie]

I believe in the warped mind of casey anthony she used the name Zanny and Zeinada for three different purposes at different times.

The first time was when Richard Grund pressured her about watching Caylee and she came up with the Zanny the Nanny, which I believe she took out of that book.

Then, after June 16th, it became Zanny had Caylee, after July 15th it became Zenaida Ferandez Gonzalez kidnapped Caylee.

Did I imagine this or did someone post that there were neighbors named Fernandez and Gonzalez ?

[Julie Dupree]

I believe in the warped mind of casey anthony she used the name Zanny and Zeinada for three different purposes at different times.

The first time was when Richard Grund pressured her about watching Caylee and she came up with the Zanny the Nanny, which I believe she took out of that book.

Then, after June 16th, it became Zanny had Caylee, after July 15th it became Zenaida Ferandez Gonzalez kidnapped Caylee.


I think the name was given much to quickly for it to the first time she had said it. Casey is not this good thinking on her feet.
I think you are right about how the name was born and grew into the ZFG we all know today.

[Katprint]

Trying to catch up from last night, but:

The cremation diamond is just wild speculation. Someone mentioned it the other night and now it seems to have progressed to rumor status xp.

Considering how big that rock is and how much one that size would cost, I highly doubt that's a cremation diamond. The previous rumor was that they were wearing cremation jewelry holding the ashes. So what did they do, grab the teddy bear urn (again, another wild idea) gather up all the jewelry and send it to the jeweler to make Georgie an earring? Somehow I doubt that. I am betting on that teddy bear urn, or some kind of urn. Not because it is more tasteful, but it is the least expensive or troublesome.

I am betting George's new bauble, if it IS an earring (and there is still debate on that) is most likely a plain zircon.

JMO
I'm betting George's new bauble is a cremation diamond stud.

I doubt George's diamond-ish stud was larger than 1/2 carat which would have cost a mere $8,300. That is well within the Anthonys' financial means after selling their interviews - er, I mean, their "licensing fees" from their photos and videos of Caylee. Even a whopping 1 carat cremation diamond would cost only $21,800 if they bought it from http://www.evrmemories.com/cremation-diamonds-s/81.htm

And they wouldn't have to gather up ALL the ashes. A diamond carat weighs 1/142 of an ounce or 1/5 of a gram. When an adult is cremated, it makes about 9 pounds of ashes. Let's assume for ease of calculation that Caylee was approximately 1/9th the size of an adult so there would have been about a pound of her cremation ashes. No doubt an ounce or two of those ashes went into the cremains jewelry we saw the Anthonys wearing at Caylee's memorial, and the remainder of Caylee's ashes probably were put in that Teddy Bear urn. So yes, they could take an ounce or two out of the Teddy Bear urn and make all the cremation diamonds they could possibly desire.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[MisterGrey]

I don't have the book handy, but I think the mention referred to missing persons. She mentions Natalee Holloway too.
May be more, but I've only read four chapters so far.
:seeya:

Greetings neighbor from south county...between us and denjet in Newport, we've got it covered!

Kathy Reichs, a possible expert for the defense who appeared with Baez et al on Suburban Dr shortly after the discovery, made a reference in her book" 206 Bones". IIRC, It was in reference to that case in FL where the bones were exposed to the elements and scattered at the site. I will have to try to locate the exact mention, it was one that us FLBs would recognize immediately but perhaps not other readers.

I have not started the new Scarpeta yet, I am anxiously awaiting Diane Fanning's new one.

Denjet reserved her's at B&N while I made the mistake of ordering mine to be shipped so I will have to wait longer.

[MisterGrey]

I think Really is to busy with her power ball endeavors to be a witness.
JMO
Really?:smile:

[BettyC]

Did I imagine this or did someone post that there were neighbors named Fernandez and Gonzalez ?

Not just neighbors. The location where the body was found is directly behind two houses with phone listings with these names. The purple asterik is where the body was found.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Caylee_hopespring47014709.jpg

[Julie Dupree]

I'm betting George's new bauble is a cremation diamond stud.

I doubt George's diamond-ish stud was larger than 1/2 carat which would have cost a mere $8,300. That is well within the Anthonys' financial means after selling their interviews - er, I mean, their "licensing fees" from their photos and videos of Caylee. Even a whopping 1 carat cremation diamond would cost only $21,800 if they bought it from http://www.evrmemories.com/cremation-diamonds-s/81.htm

And they wouldn't have to gather up ALL the ashes. A diamond carat weighs 1/142 of an ounce or 1/5 of a gram. When an adult is cremated, it makes about 9 pounds of ashes. Let's assume for ease of calculation that Caylee was approximately 1/9th the size of an adult so there would have been about a pound of her cremation ashes. No doubt an ounce or two of those ashes went into the cremains jewelry we saw the Anthonys wearing at Caylee's memorial, and the remainder of Caylee's ashes probably were put in that Teddy Bear urn. So yes, they could take an ounce or two out of the Teddy Bear urn and make all the cremation diamonds they could possibly desire.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Maybe it was the setting used in the ear ring, but it appears to be much bigger than a 1/2 carat. I am more inclined to think it was a piece of costume jewelry, not sure what CZ or what ever that is sold on QVC or HSN.
JMO

[Julie Dupree]

Really?:smile:


JMO :thumbsup:

[imacrusing]

Not just neighbors. The location where the body was found is directly behind two houses with phone listings with these names. The purple asterik is where the body was found.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Caylee_hopespring47014709.jpg

I am really tired of all the speculation...roll out the evidence plain and clear so we can put her butt in prison for good...all this wrangling is irritating me to death..Lets have her trial..PRONTO

:mad:

[Julie Dupree]

Not just neighbors. The location where the body was found is directly behind two houses with phone listings with these names. The purple asterik is where the body was found.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Caylee_hopespring47014709.jpg

Betty, the link did not work..but I have seen this before. There are so many strange twist and turns and "clues" in this case. Who knows what is fact and what is fantasy?

[BettyC]

I am really tired of all the speculation...roll out the evidence plain and clear so we can put her butt in prison for good...all this wrangling is irritating me to death..Lets have her trial..PRONTO

:mad:

Yeah well you're not alone. Not much we can do about that.

[Scampi]

Did I imagine this or did someone post that there were neighbors named Fernandez and Gonzalez ?

Hey Aggie!! IIRC, someone did a title search on the houses backing up to the area where Caylee was found and those houses belonged to persons named Fernandez and Gonzalez. I'm not sure how true this info is, but if it's legitimate it's another interesting factoid, imo.

[BettyC]

Betty, the link did not work..but I have seen this before. There are so many strange twist and turns and "clues" in this case. Who knows what is fact and what is fantasy?

Sorry, don't know what happened. I uploaded it to tiny pick (and it IS a tiny pic).

http://i33.tinypic.com/302svwi.jpg

[Scampi]

I am really tired of all the speculation...roll out the evidence plain and clear so we can put her butt in prison for good...all this wrangling is irritating me to death..Lets have her trial..PRONTO

:mad:

I think Diane Fanning is going to do just that in her book. Thanks for that link Bett. :thumbup:

[BettyC]

I think Diane Fanning is going to do just that in her book. Thanks for that link Bett. :thumbup:

yw Scamp - I recall at the time this info came out that I did a white page search and found it to be correct.

I've always said that Casey is like the guy in "The Usual Suspects". He sat in that police station and wove an incredible story out of things right in front of him.

[MisterGrey]

JMO :thumbsup:
I had to re-suit myself. Picture a woolen herringbone of blended autumn hues with suede elbow patches.

My roommate is traveling to Orlando for the next week but alas we are not anticipating any Anthony appearances during that interval. I believe the next court action will be Nov 18&19. I asked him to be on the lookout anyway, although he detests Cindy he just might snap a cell phone photo of George's right ear if he were behind him in a check out line.

[crimeq]

Hasn't cynthia come up with a search she did that produced the One Tree Hill site yet? You know, like the absolutely ridiculous "chlorophyll" search she claims returned the How to make chloroform results.

BTW, that entire explanation of her being worried over the yappie yorkies ingesting chlorophyll is bogus, because they have chlorophyll tabs you give your dog to settle their stomachs and sweeten their breath.

Hmmm, I hadn't heard her justification story for the One Tree Hill site. What did she say about it?

[Patty437]

Sorry, don't know what happened. I uploaded it to tiny pick (and it IS a tiny pic).

http://i33.tinypic.com/302svwi.jpg

Notice the addresses: 4901 & 4909 ("I dropped her off at Sawgrass between 9 and 1"). If you mapquest 8905 Suburban Dr, it brings you to the spot where Caylee was dumped like trash. 8-9-05 = Caylee's BD. Interesting coincidences brought out on Marinade Dave's site.

[crimeq]

I believe in the warped mind of casey anthony she used the name Zanny and Zeinada for three different purposes at different times.

The first time was when Richard Grund pressured her about watching Caylee and she came up with the Zanny the Nanny, which I believe she took out of that book.

Then, after June 16th, it became Zanny had Caylee, after July 15th it became Zenaida Ferandez Gonzalez kidnapped Caylee.

Yes, Scamp, I think she invented the nanny first. Nanny became Zanny the Nanny (probably based on the children's story). Then she looked for a real, full name to fit "Zanny" the nanny, and what would be more perfect than a Zenaida? And she knew of a Zenaida (with some background about her) at the tattoo parlor.

I think this is how Casey's little mind worked.

[crimeq]

Did I imagine this or did someone post that there were neighbors named Fernandez and Gonzalez ?

you are right, and Caylee's body was found back in the woods BETWEEN their two properties.

[Julie Dupree]

Sorry, don't know what happened. I uploaded it to tiny pick (and it IS a tiny pic).

http://i33.tinypic.com/302svwi.jpg

That one worked...thanks

[achristie]

Ty to all for the verification about the 2 houses. Another coincidence? This case is unreal. Maybe I'm naive but I can't believe she'll get away with this.

MOO Aggie

[denjet]

I'm betting George's new bauble is a cremation diamond stud.

I doubt George's diamond-ish stud was larger than 1/2 carat which would have cost a mere $8,300. That is well within the Anthonys' financial means after selling their interviews - er, I mean, their "licensing fees" from their photos and videos of Caylee. Even a whopping 1 carat cremation diamond would cost only $21,800 if they bought it from http://www.evrmemories.com/cremation-diamonds-s/81.htm

And they wouldn't have to gather up ALL the ashes. A diamond carat weighs 1/142 of an ounce or 1/5 of a gram. When an adult is cremated, it makes about 9 pounds of ashes. Let's assume for ease of calculation that Caylee was approximately 1/9th the size of an adult so there would have been about a pound of her cremation ashes. No doubt an ounce or two of those ashes went into the cremains jewelry we saw the Anthonys wearing at Caylee's memorial, and the remainder of Caylee's ashes probably were put in that Teddy Bear urn. So yes, they could take an ounce or two out of the Teddy Bear urn and make all the cremation diamonds they could possibly desire.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Hi Katprint!
I think so too ... I just don't think the A's do anything with out a purpose or hidden meaning ... it just seems how they roll ...
I don't think it's as big as it looked in the cruise pic mainly because the sun's reflection could have made it look bigger ... I can understand how people who make cremation jewelry think of it as a way to keep a loved one close and if it brings them comfort, I suppose for them it's worth it, I just find it macabre and unsettling ... but that's me ... totally different to keep an urn of ashes, but that's just me ...

I have wondered if the A's weren't funded for this stuff mainly because they pulled off a very expensive memorial service at the generosity of someone ... perhaps the jewelry was included in that ... JMO ... we'll have to wait and see ...

[Julie Dupree]

I had to re-suit myself. Picture a woolen herringbone of blended autumn hues with suede elbow patches.

My roommate is traveling to Orlando for the next week but alas we are not anticipating any Anthony appearances during that interval. I believe the next court action will be Nov 18&19. I asked him to be on the lookout anyway, although he detests Cindy he just might snap a cell phone photo of George's right ear if he were behind him in a check out line.

Who knows, we may get a "real" picture of the ear ring. Let us know!

[denjet]

Sorry, don't know what happened. I uploaded it to tiny pick (and it IS a tiny pic).

http://i33.tinypic.com/302svwi.jpg

Thanks Bett! I hadn't seen that pic but remember the buzz about the familiar names in the neighborhood ... interesting how a sociopaths mind works ... KC must be pretty pleased with her warped lies and stories that so many have been trying to figure out ... I trust, though, that LE has a really good handle on what the true story is ....

Question: does anyone know if one of these houses was the abandoned house Dominic was poking around at? Or was that one on the other side of the street? TIA

[MiamiNice1]

I think Really is to busy with her power ball endeavors to be a witness.
JMO
:laugh: Exactly, Julie. I didn't know quite how to word that as well as you! :beer:

imo

[Scampi]

yw Scamp - I recall at the time this info came out that I did a white page search and found it to be correct.

I've always said that Casey is like the guy in "The Usual Suspects". He sat in that police station and wove an incredible story out of things right in front of him.

LOL, yep another Keyser Sosa...... :smile:

[Scampi]

Hmmm, I hadn't heard her justification story for the One Tree Hill site. What did she say about it?

LOL, she hasn't pulled one out of her er, ear yet. Give her time tho.................she does have a creative imagination.

I think during the depos both her and george denied ever watching that show.

[Scampi]

you are right, and Caylee's body was found back in the woods BETWEEN their two properties.

Sort of like a "hyphen."

[charmin 66]

Yes, Scamp, I think she invented the nanny first. Nanny became Zanny the Nanny (probably based on the children's story). Then she looked for a real, full name to fit "Zanny" the nanny, and what would be more perfect than a Zenaida? And she knew of a Zenaida (with some background about her) at the tattoo parlor.

I think this is how Casey's little mind worked.

I'm still hoping that computer forensics is able to uncover more or currently has more that we know about.

Like whatever happened to the Zenaida that was robbed on June 9th and was a poster at Brevard County Moms? Was this just a rumor or another invisi-nanny?

[kakax]

Happy Halloweenie everyone!

Got a Selena Gomez and a spiderman anxious to get out, but wanted to comment about the Zenaida coincidences.

For some reason, I just have a hard time believing she knew that those properties were owned by a Fernanadez and a Gonazalez but maybe she did. She was google queen. I;m wondering if some computer records have been left out of these document drops. Surely they would know if she created the myspace for Zenaida myspace page unless she was smart enough to do it on someone else's computer. The person who created that would have to be able to be tracked right? I wish I knew more about computers, but seems to me there would be some record of the computer that was used to create it?

[kakax]

I'm still hoping that computer forensics is able to uncover more or currently has more that we know about.

Like whatever happened to the Zenaida that was robbed on June 9th and was a poster at Brevard County Moms? Was this just a rumor or another invisi-nanny?


I don't think it was a rumor...she spoke about it in her blog, IIRC. Whether or not Casey had anything to do with it is the ?

I just posted same thing about them having more computer forensics. It seems like there is a hole in the documents.

We saw searches in March and searches in July...but no searches in between? I bet there are some left out.

[crimeq]

Sort of like a "hyphen."

yep, and that "hyphen" was stressed by Casey as being sooooo important.

Now, "they haven't even found her clothes yet." That must fit into this scenario too ... but I'm puzzled by this one.

[kakax]

yep, and that "hyphen" was stressed by Casey as being sooooo important.

Now, "they haven't even found her clothes yet." That must fit into this scenario too ... but I'm puzzled by this one.

The clothes have some significance, I agree. That was a very damning statement made by her. She knows exactly where they are.

[crimeq]

The clothes have some significance, I agree. That was a very damning statement made by her. She knows exactly where they are.

Yes, and that she said it to another family members, or members! It was understood by whomever she said it to -- so, they knew.

[Scampi]

The clothes have some significance, I agree. That was a very damning statement made by her. She knows exactly where they are.

I wonder if she is referring to the clothes that belonged on the Mama doll?

[farrahrani]

I wonder if she is referring to the clothes that belonged on the Mama doll?


No, this was a conversation in front of Padilla's employee, Tracy, IIRC.
There was a conversation and Casey said to Cindy, referring to Caylee, they haven't even found her clothes yet.

I still don't get what this is. I know that some people have said she changed Caylee's clothes after the murder, into that 'trouble comes in small packages' tshirt. I don't think that's it, but I don't know what else it could be. Unless it was some random bs Casey was spouting to make herself sound like some ultra smart, cutting edge, jr. private investigator, like Lee with his being deputized by D.Casey.

[djmsmom]

yep, and that "hyphen" was stressed by Casey as being sooooo important.

Now, "they haven't even found her clothes yet." That must fit into this scenario too ... but I'm puzzled by this one.

I would imagine that Casey had extra clothes for Caylee in the car. Also that she placed the spare clothes somewhere to throw LE off. Except they never found the clothes.

[kakax]

I would imagine that Casey had extra clothes for Caylee in the car. Also that she placed the spare clothes somewhere to throw LE off. Except they never found the clothes.

That is kind of what I was thinking. She put clothes somewhere other than the dump site so the finger would point to someone else. LE just hasn't found them.

[kakax]

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/?cat=3


Just in case someone hasn't gotten this link. Valhall did a great job explaining the forensics on the duct tape and brings up a very good point about the handle of the shovel.

It is well worth a read!! She/he made it very easy to understand.

[apothecary]

Oh yes. Makes you really wonder why some people don't have anything more productive to do with their life. :confused:
I thought it was a clever and funny parody of this case.:lol:

[apothecary]

That's how I remember it also.
Me too......

[sammy62]

That is kind of what I was thinking. She put clothes somewhere other than the dump site so the finger would point to someone else. LE just hasn't found them.

maybe at Jesse's when she took a shower there. There had to be some reason she showered there.

[apothecary]

Does anyone have Tracey's statement that Casey really said"they have not found her clothes yet?Maybe this is just one of Lenny's mis-statements...or understanding that she said that.

[Scampi]

Here is an interesting video courtesy of WS. Mentions the houses that are mentioned earlier in this thread and also gives a very good view of the exact spot where Caylee was found.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4370140&postcount=845

[Pruddennce]

Its interesting that the cloraform and cloroform searches were done in March.....that search was before her BIG theft from Shirley P in April.


IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[SC7501]

Its interesting that the cloraform and cloroform searches were done in March.....that search was before her BIG theft from Shirley P in April.


IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

Fits well with the theory that KC was using it on Caylee on a regular basis, like maybe that time at Ricardo's when she disappeared during the night. -- Another pesky detail that bugs me. :unsure:JMO

[Scampi]

Here is another interesting video by Marinade Dave. Pay attention to the info he imparts about the address of the dump site and house addresses. He believes casey anthony was talking in code, I'm starting to believe too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvk5kSqYmrs

[AnnieKins]

I had to re-suit myself. Picture a woolen herringbone of blended autumn hues with suede elbow patches.

My roommate is traveling to Orlando for the next week but alas we are not anticipating any Anthony appearances during that interval. I believe the next court action will be Nov 18&19. I asked him to be on the lookout anyway, although he detests Cindy he just might snap a cell phone photo of George's right ear if he were behind him in a check out line.

If I were behind them in a check-out line, a pic wouldn't be the only thing I'd SNAP! :smile:

[crimeq]

I would imagine that Casey had extra clothes for Caylee in the car. Also that she placed the spare clothes somewhere to throw LE off. Except they never found the clothes.

This indicates that she was thinking ahead, though, and I think the way she dumped Caylee's little body was out of absolute panic.

Her statement about finding the clothes is so puzzling :-(

[crimeq]

Does anyone have Tracey's statement that Casey really said"they have not found her clothes yet?Maybe this is just one of Lenny's mis-statements...or understanding that she said that.

I'm pretty sure this was in Tracy's taped statement to LE, which is why I gave it credibility and was left thinking :confused:

I think it's significant that she made that comment to Cindy. Obviously Cindy understood.

[Pruddennce]

Robert Dick's interview is interesting......he gave an account as to how Casey lies: he would take her to Baez's office and for instance two days in a row she bragged about how much she ate, how many chicken wings, how much Olive Garden and she's so stuffed.....then that same evening (say it was a monday and tuesday), tuesday evening, Tracy asked him to go get her cigs and candy.....and he asks Casey if she wants anything...she says yes, a chicken sandwich from Wendy's.....

the very next day, Wed, he says, she gets in the car and is lamenting that she lost weight because she hasnt eaten in days (R Rick is ???????????????)...then she catches herself and says oh, except for the chicken sandwich last nite.......

the statement about 'THEY havent even found the clothes that she was wearing' was said to R Dick and Tracy. in the car. this was in response to him asking her if she packed a bag with clothes for Caylee that day, did she intend on leaving her with Z in the park, and she said no, she wasnt going anywhere with them...thats when THEY took her (meaning Samantha and Z)....then remarks about not finding the clothes.

http://www.wftv.com/video/20726987/index.html

around 64.19.

L Padilla commented about it on NG before R Dick's interview was released. R Dick tells investigators how the conversation/remark came about and how he and Tracy were exchanging looks when she said it to them......

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[Dtviewer3]

I looked twice at this too.

Maybe someone who is IT savvy can help us out.

But this is what I see on page 9.

File Created: 06/12/08 11:15:29PM
searchFirstName=zenaida&searchLastName=Gonzalez&searchAge=25

File Created: 06/12/08 11:15:29PM
searchLName=Fernandez&searchState=FL&searchCity=jacksonville&searchFName=Zenaida

The search on June 12, was from this website

http://www.ussearch.com/consumer/index.do?&adID=9999990003&adsource=16&TID=5&searchtab=home

I think the information from the June 12 search was used to create the MySpace page on June 16th.

Hi Charmin

Sorry, but thats not what the info in the computer forensics shows.
What it means is the file (index.dat or history file) was created on June 12th.
The search for Zenaida was done on JULY 16th, NOT June 12th.
The index.dat or history file would have been created at any time for any search. Then whatever searches were done after the creation would be saved there.

(You can bet the Zenaida searches on the 16th of July were the anthony's searching.)

[SC7501]

Here is another interesting video by Marinade Dave. Pay attention to the info he imparts about the address of the dump site and house addresses. He believes casey anthony was talking in code, I'm starting to believe too.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvk5kSqYmrs

Interesting stuff! Thanks so much :thumbup:

[apothecary]

Thanks PRU..You have explained the clothes statement very well and now I understand it

[Pruddennce]

Robert Dick also states that he confronted Cindy about the nite of the 15th, that he KNEW there was a fight, the neighbors heard it, it was bad.

she would NOT admit it. he asked her about the 3rd of July, why did she write the blog THAT DAY and why did she send Lee out to find her....why why why, what happened that day...she would not give it up.....all she said was I HAD A BAD FEELING.

R Dick was attempting to get her to tell the truth 'to find Caylee'. she refused and denied the argument. denied that 'anything' was told to her by Casey on July 3rd that would provoke her to write her blog or have Lee look for her.

IMO, Cindy knew that Caylee was gone. forever. and it wasnt because of a 'bond' that she and Casey kept talking about. isnt it funny how Cindy had the 'knowing bond' conversation with Casey, and Casey told the 'knowing bond' story over and over again, about Caylee being close? she just 'knows' it, she tells Lee because of the 'bond' that 'mom' claims mothers/children have...

Casey the parrot.....sounds good to repeat. *Ill use that*.......

R Dick did shed some light on the dynamics that were going on and how Casey actually was more concerned with 'how she she looked' coming and going from the home.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[cuddlyrunner]

Hello lovely people, I have returned from La Belle France, did I miss anything major this week. It's 2.30 am here so I will catch up tomorrow (unless there's anything big!!!)

[kakax]

Robert Dick also states that he confronted Cindy about the nite of the 15th, that he KNEW there was a fight, the neighbors heard it, it was bad.

she would NOT admit it. he asked her about the 3rd of July, why did she write the blog THAT DAY and why did she send Lee out to find her....why why why, what happened that day...she would not give it up.....all she said was I HAD A BAD FEELING.

R Dick was attempting to get her to tell the truth 'to find Caylee'. she refused and denied the argument. denied that 'anything' was told to her by Casey on July 3rd that would provoke her to write her blog or have Lee look for her.

IMO, Cindy knew that Caylee was gone. forever. and it wasnt because of a 'bond' that she and Casey kept talking about. isnt it funny how Cindy had the 'knowing bond' conversation with Casey, and Casey told the 'knowing bond' story over and over again, about Caylee being close? she just 'knows' it, she tells Lee because of the 'bond' that 'mom' claims mothers/children have...

Casey the parrot.....sounds good to repeat. *Ill use that*.......

R Dick did shed some light on the dynamics that were going on and how Casey actually was more concerned with 'how she she looked' coming and going from the home.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

As always Pru...you hit the nail on the head!

Everytime I listen to the "feelings in their guts" it makes me have a feeling in my gut too. :rolleyes: I have heard many people have hope for their missing children and they say much of the same thing that they "feel" their children are alive. It never bothered me before this case and usually I can understand why they feel that way. I just don't believe them. They smelled decomposition FGS.

[kakax]

Hello lovely people, I have returned from La Belle France, did I miss anything major this week. It's 2.30 am here so I will catch up tomorrow (unless there's anything big!!!)

Don't know if you know that the Anthonys went on a cruise. A great new blog has popped up with some very interesting facts and explanations...

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/?p=327

Trying to think if there was anything else...not that I can remember right now.

Oh there is also a play coming out in Dec in Australia called "tot mom".

[Pruddennce]

I would imagine that Casey had extra clothes for Caylee in the car. Also that she placed the spare clothes somewhere to throw LE off. Except they never found the clothes.

however, R Dick said she specifically said 'the clothes that she was wearing'.

IMO, she slipped. similar to talking to herself out loud. IMO, she redressed Caylee into something else. those clothes were probably put in a trash bag, then placed in the anthony trash. I am curious as to when their trash day was that week.....if it coincides with one of her visits home that week.

could this be the something that provoked Cindy to have 'her bad feeling'...that in fact, it wasnt a feeling at all...it was something tangible that she saw which caused her to be alarmed....

if Casey opened up a trash bag to put something in it, GA and CA would know it......she would not have been neat or sneaky about it.....Casey just 'does' whatever....she doesnt care.....OBVIOUSLY....as she left a huge stain in her car, abandoned it, and never made attempts to clean it or take Tony up on his offer to get her gas. "dad' will take care of it she tells him.

that is why the car should be considered ABANDONED. she had an opportunity thru Tony to gas it up to get it out of there.

she left it because it reeked, it had flies and maggots in the trunk. she wasnt going to deal with it.

seems like R Dick and Tracy were afraid to 'rock the boat' with her, thus be banished for asking her to explain that statement.....similar to ole Lenny being sent out of the house.....confrontation......similar to how Casey treats everyone....case in point: jailhouse meltdown. fists flying. face contorted. and nothing of substance coming out of her mouth.

she wants to talk and when given the opportunity, she says nothing. its a diversion tactic.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[kakax]

however, R Dick said she specifically said 'the clothes that she was wearing'.

IMO, she slipped. similar to talking to herself out loud. IMO, she redressed Caylee into something else. those clothes were probably put in a trash bag, then placed in the anthony trash. I am curious as to when their trash day was that week.....if it coincides with one of her visits home that week.

could this be the something that provoked Cindy to have 'her bad feeling'...that in fact, it wasnt a feeling at all...it was something tangible that she saw which caused her to be alarmed....

if Casey opened up a trash bag to put something in it, GA and CA would know it......she would not have been neat or sneaky about it.....Casey just 'does' whatever....she doesnt care.....OBVIOUSLY....as she left a huge stain in her car, abandoned it, and never made attempts to clean it or take Tony up on his offer to get her gas. "dad' will take care of it she tells him.

that is why the car should be considered ABANDONED. she had an opportunity thru Tony to gas it up to get it out of there.

she left it because it reeked, it had flies and maggots in the trunk. she wasnt going to deal with it.

seems like R Dick and Tracy were afraid to 'rock the boat' with her, thus be banished for asking her to explain that statement.....similar to ole Lenny being sent out of the house.....confrontation......similar to how Casey treats everyone....case in point: jailhouse meltdown. fists flying. face contorted. and nothing of substance coming out of her mouth.

she wants to talk and when given the opportunity, she says nothing. its a diversion tactic.

IMO

best regards,
Pru


*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

Your posts never cease to amaze me. They always make so much sense. :wub:

Very good point about the "clothes she was wearing". She did something with those clothes. She changed her into the pink trouble shirt and put her in the trunk.

I agree about the car as well. Casey wanted to be rid of that car. How could she not? No way she was going to be able to get the smell out. She must have thought once she got rid of Caylee's body (makes me shiver to say that) the smell would go away. Well...maggots didn't go away and neither did the smell.

I will always wonder where she actually killed Caylee. Was it in the house? If it were in the house, why wasn't there more evidence? Did she strangle her? Did she drown her? Or was it in the trunk? Did she chloroform her so she could go to Tony's free of responsibility? I hope there will be some answers in the trial, but it could be like Laci Peterson and we never really know how she did it.

[denjet]

however, R Dick said she specifically said 'the clothes that she was wearing'.

IMO, she slipped. similar to talking to herself out loud. IMO, she redressed Caylee into something else. those clothes were probably put in a trash bag, then placed in the anthony trash. I am curious as to when their trash day was that week.....if it coincides with one of her visits home that week.

could this be the something that provoked Cindy to have 'her bad feeling'...that in fact, it wasnt a feeling at all...it was something tangible that she saw which caused her to be alarmed....

if Casey opened up a trash bag to put something in it, GA and CA would know it......she would not have been neat or sneaky about it.....Casey just 'does' whatever....she doesnt care.....OBVIOUSLY....as she left a huge stain in her car, abandoned it, and never made attempts to clean it or take Tony up on his offer to get her gas. "dad' will take care of it she tells him.

that is why the car should be considered ABANDONED. she had an opportunity thru Tony to gas it up to get it out of there.

she left it because it reeked, it had flies and maggots in the trunk. she wasnt going to deal with it.

seems like R Dick and Tracy were afraid to 'rock the boat' with her, thus be banished for asking her to explain that statement.....similar to ole Lenny being sent out of the house.....confrontation......similar to how Casey treats everyone....case in point: jailhouse meltdown. fists flying. face contorted. and nothing of substance coming out of her mouth.

she wants to talk and when given the opportunity, she says nothing. its a diversion tactic.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*
Hi Pru !
BBM I didn't realize KC said "clothes she was wearing" ... Tracy said "they haven't even found the clothes yet" (or something similar) ... but what Rob said kind of fits in with LE thinking Caylee was deliberately put in the clothes she was wearing when KC killed her (allegedly) ... I'm just not sure about why KC was taunting them but it sounds like KC deliberately dumped or put the clothes somewhere where they would be easily found and point the finger at someone else ...

Does make me wonder WTH was she up to, where did she put those clothes and why .... I know I've wondered why KC would put Caylee's things/clothes someplace where they could be found ... why wouldn't she just put Caylee's clothes in a trash bag and throw it in a dumpster ... maybe because she was trying to set someone up .... :confused:

[seeing_eye]

I believe in the warped mind of casey anthony she used the name Zanny and Zeinada for three different purposes at different times.

The first time was when Richard Grund pressured her about watching Caylee and she came up with the Zanny the Nanny, which I believe she took out of that book.

Then, after June 16th, it became Zanny had Caylee, after July 15th it became Zenaida Ferandez Gonzalez kidnapped Caylee.

That's the way it appears to me too, Scampi. I think when Richard met her at the door asking when she was going to get a babysitter, it took her by surprise. And whenever, Casey is surprised she comes up with an immediate lie. The Zanny the Nanny from the book came to mind so she went with that. And knowing how envious all her friends would be because she had a nanny, she continued the lie with them. The only people she did not mention a nanny to was her family since they knew they were keeping Caylee 99 percent of the time. JMO, of course.

[denjet]

Your posts never cease to amaze me. They always make so much sense. :wub:

Very good point about the "clothes she was wearing". She did something with those clothes. She changed her into the pink trouble shirt and put her in the trunk.

I agree about the car as well. Casey wanted to be rid of that car. How could she not? No way she was going to be able to get the smell out. She must have thought once she got rid of Caylee's body (makes me shiver to say that) the smell would go away. Well...maggots didn't go away and neither did the smell.

I will always wonder where she actually killed Caylee. Was it in the house? If it were in the house, why wasn't there more evidence? Did she strangle her? Did she drown her? Or was it in the trunk? Did she chloroform her so she could go to Tony's free of responsibility? I hope there will be some answers in the trial, but it could be like Laci Peterson and we never really know how she did it.

Hi Kakax!
I hope you're wrong and we do find out more of what happened to Caylee ... the difference I see between Scott and KC are that Scott put a whole lot more effort into concealing his crime, cleaning up and covering his tracks ... KC, not so much ... she left way too much evidence that LE has used to piece the puzzle together ... it seems to me that KC couldn't be bothered with spending too much time doing that and figured she would just lie her way thru everything .... JMO

[seeing_eye]

Betty, the link did not work..but I have seen this before. There are so many strange twist and turns and "clues" in this case. Who knows what is fact and what is fantasy?

It's easy to know what is fact and what is fantasy. If it comes out of Casey's, Cindy's, George's, or Lee's mouths it is fantasy. If it comes out of anyone else's mouth, it is fact (except those on the defense team, of course).

[kakax]

Hi Kakax!
I hope you're wrong and we do find out more of what happened to Caylee ... the difference I see between Scott and KC are that Scott put a whole lot more effort into concealing his crime, cleaning up and covering his tracks ... KC, not so much ... she left way too much evidence that LE has used to piece the puzzle together ... it seems to me that KC couldn't be bothered with spending too much time doing that and figured she would just lie her way thru everything .... JMO

I hope I'm wrong too. With what we have so far, we don't have a cause of death. Casey sure lucked out in having 6 months between the time she murdered her daughter until they found her. I hope there is enough other evidence to conclude the way Caylee died.


Or is it manner of death? I can't remember. I know it is classified as a homicide...

[gaelicpeas]

My take on the statement "they haven't even found her clothes" refers to the fact that Casey knew Caylee's remains had been reduced to basically nothing.

[denjet]

I hope I'm wrong too. With what we have so far, we don't have a cause of death. Casey sure lucked out in having 6 months between the time she murdered her daughter until they found her. I hope there is enough other evidence to conclude the way Caylee died.
Either way, by the time the trial is over, we'll know much more than we do now ... maybe not all of the details that only KC knows but I guess it won't matter as long as she's convicted ... then she'll have years and years to play her "riddle-me-this" games all by herself !!:smile:

I also think KC's big mouth and gift of gab once she's behind bars for a while may reveal more details as the years go by ... especially if she thinks her story is not being told correctly and she feels she's got nothing to lose and is never getting out ....

[kakax]

You know what gets me? She drove by where Caylee was many times. This to me is one huge indication she is a psychopath. She would get in the car to play the sunglasses game and not give a care in the world she was passing her daughter's remains. :sad:

I honestly can not imagine. I drive by the cemetary where my grandparents are and I think of them every time still. Makes me very sad and they died years and years ago.

[seeing_eye]

Your posts never cease to amaze me. They always make so much sense. :wub:

Very good point about the "clothes she was wearing". She did something with those clothes. She changed her into the pink trouble shirt and put her in the trunk.

I agree about the car as well. Casey wanted to be rid of that car. How could she not? No way she was going to be able to get the smell out. She must have thought once she got rid of Caylee's body (makes me shiver to say that) the smell would go away. Well...maggots didn't go away and neither did the smell.

I will always wonder where she actually killed Caylee. Was it in the house? If it were in the house, why wasn't there more evidence? Did she strangle her? Did she drown her? Or was it in the trunk? Did she chloroform her so she could go to Tony's free of responsibility? I hope there will be some answers in the trial, but it could be like Laci Peterson and we never really know how she did it.

I truly believe she did it in the house since everything with the body came from the house. And I believe the murder weapon was the duct tape which also came from the house. I believe she temporarily hid the body in the back yard, then moved it to the trunk of her car, perhaps because it had started to smell.

[seeing_eye]

Hi Kakax!
I hope you're wrong and we do find out more of what happened to Caylee ... the difference I see between Scott and KC are that Scott put a whole lot more effort into concealing his crime, cleaning up and covering his tracks ... KC, not so much ... she left way too much evidence that LE has used to piece the puzzle together ... it seems to me that KC couldn't be bothered with spending too much time doing that and figured she would just lie her way thru everything .... JMO

Bolding to address.
That's exactly the way I think too. I think that is the reason was so sloppy with everything she did. She figured she could just lie her way out of it. And if one lie didn't work, she could always think up another one. It's always worked for her in the past, so why wouldn't it work this time too? I think she ditched the car because it was getting too smelly for her to drive. If she had been worried about someone finding evidence in the car, I think she would have done something else with, burned it at least. But no, she didn't really care if it was found since she could always make up lies to explain it. I think she may be really surprised now that so many people are not believing her. And she can't understand why. She's probably trying to come up with better lies right now.

[Pruddennce]

As always Pru...you hit the nail on the head!

Everytime I listen to the "feelings in their guts" it makes me have a feeling in my gut too. :rolleyes: I have heard many people have hope for their missing children and they say much of the same thing that they "feel" their children are alive. It never bothered me before this case and usually I can understand why they feel that way. I just don't believe them. They smelled decomposition FGS.

I agree with you K.....the statement about 'feelings'...'hope'.....there are miracles out there, happy endings, even after years of wondering...

however, with this case, 'feelings' has taken on a whole new meaning.......mother/daughter parrot each other....these two are really scary...yes, FGS, DECOMP, stain, maggots and flies....

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[denjet]

Bolding to address.
That's exactly the way I think too. I think that is the reason was so sloppy with everything she did. She figured she could just lie her way out of it. And if one lie didn't work, she could always think up another one. It's always worked for her in the past, so why wouldn't it work this time too? I think she ditched the car because it was getting too smelly for her to drive. If she had been worried about someone finding evidence in the car, I think she would have done something else with, burned it at least. But no, she didn't really care if it was found since she could always make up lies to explain it. I think she may be really surprised now that so many people are not believing her. And she can't understand why. She's probably trying to come up with better lies right now.

Bingo! That's the KC we all know! Talk about stupid though ... instead of torching the car or driving it off a cliff she just goes and parks it at Amscot !! She was so sure no one would find Caylee either which is obvious by her reaction when she was found ... duh ... maybe she should have put a little more effort into that too instead of throwing her so close to the edge of the woods ... double duh ....

It just gives me more confidence in her being convicted ... IMO she has left much more evidence than is even needed for a conviction !!

[denjet]

I agree with you K.....the statement about 'feelings'...'hope'.....there are miracles out there, happy endings, even after years of wondering...

however, with this case, 'feelings' has taken on a whole new meaning.......mother/daughter parrot each other....these two are really scary...yes, FGS, DECOMP, stain, maggots and flies....

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

Yep, Cindy and George taught KC everything she knows ... how proud they must be ... and they'll never admit, not even to themselves, that they had anything to do with how she turned out ... guaranteed it will be everyone else's fault but not their's ...

[AnnieKins]

You know what gets me? She drove by where Caylee was many times. This to me is one huge indication she is a psychopath. She would get in the car to play the sunglasses game and not give a care in the world she was passing her daughter's remains. :sad:

I honestly can not imagine. I drive by the cemetary where my grandparents are and I think of them every time still. Makes me very sad and they died years and years ago.

Ohhhh... you're right Kakax. That thought is very chilling.

[Pruddennce]

Bolding to address.
That's exactly the way I think too. I think that is the reason was so sloppy with everything she did. She figured she could just lie her way out of it. And if one lie didn't work, she could always think up another one. It's always worked for her in the past, so why wouldn't it work this time too? I think she ditched the car because it was getting too smelly for her to drive. If she had been worried about someone finding evidence in the car, I think she would have done something else with, burned it at least. But no, she didn't really care if it was found since she could always make up lies to explain it. I think she may be really surprised now that so many people are not believing her. And she can't understand why. She's probably trying to come up with better lies right now.

right.....simply lie. which is historical behaviour with her parents.....she would lie and lie and layer the lie until BINGO, mom is chewing and swallowing...done!

over and over again. therefore, a missing child, a maggot infested car, a stain.....we are supposed to believe her parents didnt ask her how the stain got there??????? or ask her ANY questions about the trunk?

they just considered it a 'trashed trunk?" with a pesky decomp smell?

they asked, they got answers, not the truth of course, but they refused to offer up Casey's explanations to LE....however, they didnt skip a beat, mostly Cindy, offering up everything else "Casey told me" right down to the teeniest detail regarding Z's fictional accident....Cindy knew the ENTIRE STORY......she offered it up, verbatim.....

but has nothing to offer as far as 'what Casey told me' regarding the condition of the trunk.....

rightttttttttttttttt

Cindy and George couldnt bring themselves to admit the explanation was so lame, even they couldnt reconcile what she told them and what they KNEW as far as recognizing the smell. they wouldnt dare repeat it to LE, like they did with the Z story....not to say the Z story was not lame, but hey, Cindy thought it was pretty good, all those details! Csaey didnt give them a detailed explanation about the stain.......sooooooooooo.......

Cindy decided to call it pizza, although she personally never saw the trunk contents at the towyard.....she took over for Casey....she created details ......

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[onlykaty]

I don't think we will ever know the real truth of what happened to Caylee. Only Casey can tell us that and she will go to her grave without ever telling anyone the whole truth. I do see her being convicted of killing Caylee, I can't see any way around that. Casey is never going to admit to anything, murder, stealing, lying and cheating everyone out of knowing Caylee as an adult. As Judge Strickland said the truth and Casey are strangers. I know in my heart no matter how much money the Anthony's make out of this nor how many places they travel, they will never know real happiness. That all died with Caylee. I know most think the Anthony's don't have a conscious at all, but beleive me they do. They live everyday in denial, thats all they have left to keep them going. Once the trial is over and Casey is found guilty and the appeals are worn out and done with, they both will be the left with nothing. Money can only buy so much. It doesn't buy peace of mind and it doesn't buy health and it most certainly doesn't buy justification of the fact Caylee is dead and their daughter is either facing the DP or spending the rest of her life in prison.

They can deny all they want, but once they close their eyes at night this will haunt them til their last days. There is no way around it. They don't even beleive the lies. Their just trying to save their daughter and maybe thats their justification. What a pathetic family they have become. There is a judgement day for us all, rest in peace Caylee, your day in court is coming and no one is going to forget you and the impact you made on us all.

[seeing_eye]

I don't think we will ever know the real truth of what happened to Caylee. Only Casey can tell us that and she will go to her grave without ever telling anyone the whole truth. I do see her being convicted of killing Caylee, I can't see any way around that. Casey is never going to admit to anything, murder, stealing, lying and cheating everyone out of knowing Caylee as an adult. As Judge Strickland said the truth and Casey are strangers. I know in my heart no matter how much money the Anthony's make out of this nor how many places they travel, they will never know real happiness. That all died with Caylee. I know most think the Anthony's don't have a conscious at all, but beleive me they do. They live everyday in denial, thats all they have left to keep them going. Once the trial is over and Casey is found guilty and the appeals are worn out and done with, they both will be the left with nothing. Money can only buy so much. It doesn't buy peace of mind and it doesn't buy health and it most certainly doesn't buy justification of the fact Caylee is dead and their daughter is either facing the DP or spending the rest of her life in prison.

They can deny all they want, but once they close their eyes at night this will haunt them til their last days. There is no way around it. They don't even beleive the lies. Their just trying to save their daughter and maybe thats their justification. What a pathetic family they have become. There is a judgement day for us all, rest in peace Caylee, your day in court is coming and no one is going to forget you and the impact you made on us all.

Bolded to address.
I have to respectfully disagree about this. I do not believe the Anthonys are in any kind of denial. But they are in complete cover-up mode. I believe they know exactly what happened and they don't want anyone else knowing it. Their actions are not those of grieving grandparents despite what they may say to the public. Also their references to Caylee as "that little girl," or "my granddaughter," or "it" speaks volumes to me.

[desmom]

however, R Dick said she specifically said 'the clothes that she was wearing'.

IMO, she slipped. similar to talking to herself out loud. IMO, she redressed Caylee into something else. those clothes were probably put in a trash bag, then placed in the anthony trash. I am curious as to when their trash day was that week.....if it coincides with one of her visits home that week.

--snipped to address--

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

BBM - The Woman Taking Garbage From Anthony Home To Do Own Investigation was posted on Tuesday, September 9, 2008 http://www.wftv.com/news/17429219/detail.html Here is the video link: http://www.wftv.com/video/17429655/index.html

jmo

[*MoonRider*]

Good Morning everyone. Was Casey out of jail on bond when TES did the first search for Caylee? I was thinking how nervouse Casey should have been if they were searching so close to where she was eventually found. When they called off the search due to high water the OC must have thought she was in the clear. I would love to know if Tracy were in the home at the time if anyone knows. tia

[Explorer]

My take on the statement "they haven't even found her clothes" refers to the fact that Casey knew Caylee's remains had been reduced to basically nothing.

yes she knew the onlything left was clothes. She probably thought that her bones would decompose too.

[Explorer]

She knew what was left when she dumped her.

[Scampi]

Good Morning everyone. Was Casey out of jail on bond when TES did the first search for Caylee? I was thinking how nervouse Casey should have been if they were searching so close to where she was eventually found. When they called off the search due to high water the OC must have thought she was in the clear. I would love to know if Tracy were in the home at the time if anyone knows. tia

Morning Moonie, IIRC she was present in the home the first time Tim Miller went there, so I would assume she was out of jail during the search. But, you must remember she was all consumed with picking out her outfits each day, playing sunglass games with Rob Dick and trolling the internet on facebook and myspace in her neverending search for Caylee.

[*MoonRider*]

BBM - The Woman Taking Garbage From Anthony Home To Do Own Investigation was posted on Tuesday, September 9, 2008 http://www.wftv.com/news/17429219/detail.html Here is the video link: http://www.wftv.com/video/17429655/index.html

jmo

Speaking of garbage bags check out post 64 is a pic of garbage from 7/25 taken by Murt.
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13209507#post13209507

[sammy62]

does anyone know where I can change the clock. I would have thought it would do it automatically. tia

[Patty437]

I truly believe she did it in the house since everything with the body came from the house. And I believe the murder weapon was the duct tape which also came from the house. I believe she temporarily hid the body in the back yard, then moved it to the trunk of her car, perhaps because it had started to smell.

we can't forget about the chloroform in the trunk though. She had to have dosed Caylee first, applied the duct tape second, no?

[Scampi]

does anyone know where I can change the clock. I would have thought it would do it automatically. tia

Go to Control Panel (User CP), under Edit Options and set to have DST automatically displayed.

[Explorer]

The only thing with the backyard is if the family dogs went in the backyard wouldnt they alert someone especially if it was a decomposing body.

[Duke]

Your posts never cease to amaze me. They always make so much sense. :wub:

Very good point about the "clothes she was wearing". She did something with those clothes. She changed her into the pink trouble shirt and put her in the trunk.

I agree about the car as well. Casey wanted to be rid of that car. How could she not? No way she was going to be able to get the smell out. She must have thought once she got rid of Caylee's body (makes me shiver to say that) the smell would go away. Well...maggots didn't go away and neither did the smell.
I will always wonder where she actually killed Caylee. Was it in the house? If it were in the house, why wasn't there more evidence? Did she strangle her? Did she drown her? Or was it in the trunk? Did she chloroform her so she could go to Tony's free of responsibility? I hope there will be some answers in the trial, but it could be like Laci Peterson and we never really know how she did it.

I thought the maggots were another made up story? If the maggots were there then why did Cindy say in her depo that she didn't have miroscope so she did not see them? I guess I missed something. Can someone refresh me please? thank you.

Oh and my last bold by me is something that probably will happen. We all will probably will get the satisfaction that KC will be behind the cell but no one will really know what had happend.

[Scampi]

There were maggots found on the outside of the trash bag, iirc and they were retrieved and sent off for testing.

[Duke]

The only thing with the backyard is if the family dogs went in the backyard wouldnt they alert someone especially if it was a decomposing body.

I would think so unless they were not a dog with a good smell. My dogs which are labs can smell our raccoons come out of their home around sunset as soon as they pop their little heads out. I can tell by their one bark that a turtle is on its way when it is going between the houses.

[Duke]

There were maggots found on the outside of the trash bag, iirc and they were retrieved and sent off for testing.

Thanks. So Cindy did not seem them just George right?

[Duke]

Bolded to address.
I have to respectfully disagree about this. I do not believe the Anthonys are in any kind of denial. But they are in complete cover-up mode. I believe they know exactly what happened and they don't want anyone else knowing it. Their actions are not those of grieving grandparents despite what they may say to the public. Also their references to Caylee as "that little girl," or "my granddaughter," or "it" speaks volumes to me.

My own thought of covering something up would be just horrible to me year after year. I'd rather turn myself in then live like that for years. But then I would not do something like this either so it would not ever be an issue to me.

[Scampi]

Thanks. So Cindy did not seem them just George right?

I don't know, since george did no cleaning of the trunk at the impound lot, there may have been maggots in the trunk when they got the car home and were cleaned out when cynthia did her "febreezing."

[sammy62]

thanks for the daylight saving time answer. It worked

[Patty437]

Just throwing this out there:
Do you think Casey purposely killed Caylee or did she dose her, duct tape her to quiet Caylee, and she accidently died, resulting in panic and cover up?

[seeing_eye]

Just throwing this out there:
Do you think Casey purposely killed Caylee or did she dose her, duct tape her to quiet Caylee, and she accidently died, resulting in panic and cover up?

I haven't seen any actual evidence that Caylee was drugged, merely suspicions about chloroform, etc. Forensic results, so far, seem to be negative about drugs. Not sure why the chloroform was in the trunk. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence (computer searches, etc.) that indicate the death was premeditated. The fact that the duct tape covered both her mouth and nose, to me, points to that as being the murder weapon. I see no evidence of an accident especially when considering Casey's lackadaisical attitude about the whole thing since it happened.

[Patty437]

I haven't seen any actual evidence that Caylee was drugged, merely suspicions about chloroform, etc. Forensic results, so far, seem to be negative about drugs. Not sure why the chloroform was in the trunk. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence (computer searches, etc.) that indicate the death was premeditated. The fact that the duct tape covered both her mouth and nose, to me, points to that as being the murder weapon. I see no evidence of an accident especially when considering Casey's lackadaisical attitude about the whole thing since it happened.

I thought there was a high level of chloroform in the trunk. Still can't wrap my head around why she would kill Caylee when she could have left her with CA...I know, the "spiteful b@@@h" comment to Lee. but it's such an insane step to deliberately kill her. I go back and forth on it.

[spydernweb2006]

I have often wondered if Casey took the landry bag, trash bags and duct tape from the Anthony home to try and frame Cindy or George for Caylee's death. Casey was no stranger to shopping on Amy's checks and could have easily bought the items she needd to dispose Caylee with or even dumped Caylee without any bags or tape.

I believe there is ALOT of unseen anger between Casey and her parents and I wouldnt put it past Casey to try and blame them...

JMHO

Hugs,
Spyder

[Patty437]

I have often wondered if Casey took the landry bag, trash bags and duct tape from the Anthony home to try and frame Cindy or George for Caylee's death. Casey was no stranger to shopping on Amy's checks and could have easily bought the items she needd to dispose Caylee with or even dumped Caylee without any bags or tape.

I believe there is ALOT of unseen anger between Casey and her parents and I wouldnt put it past Casey to try and blame them...

JMHO

Hugs,
Spyder

Yeah, and I've often wondered why the searches for "household weapons" and "neck breaking" were done so long ago (mar, 08) and that was it. The chloroform thing could have been going on for a while but the other searches..for G&C? I always think about Casey talking to Amy about getting the house and moving in together.

[seeing_eye]

I thought there was a high level of chloroform in the trunk. Still can't wrap my head around why she would kill Caylee when she could have left her with CA...I know, the "spiteful b@@@h" comment to Lee. but it's such an insane step to deliberately kill her. I go back and forth on it.

Yes, there was lots of chloroform in the trunk, but no evidence any was in Caylee. There may have been, but then again, there may not have been. Perhaps there was another reason the chloroform was in the trunk that we're unaware of.

Casey's spitefulness may not explain all of her motives. Remember Shirley P's statement that Casey may have hated her mother more than she loved Caylee. I think Shirley believes Casey purposely killed Caylee. It seems to me that Casey and Cindy had a love/hate relationship. They were mother/daughter "best friends," yet they took every opportunity to throw "digs" at one another. Killing Caylee was just one more "dig" that Casey threw at Cindy. Not only that, but Casey was totally dependent upon Cindy for her livelihood. When Caylee came along Casey then had to share Cindy's resources as well as share the love and affection Cindy had to dole out. IOW, Casey's "Princess" status was usurped by Caylee. Casey wanted to regain that status. So she killed Caylee and now she's the reigning princess in the house again (or at least she was until she started living at the jail).

[Patty437]

Yes, there was lots of chloroform in the trunk, but no evidence any was in Caylee. There may have been, but then again, there may not have been. Perhaps there was another reason the chloroform was in the trunk that we're unaware of.

Casey's spitefulness may not explain all of her motives. Remember Shirley P's statement that Casey may have hated her mother more than she loved Caylee. I think Shirley believes Casey purposely killed Caylee. It seems to me that Casey and Cindy had a love/hate relationship. They were mother/daughter "best friends," yet they took every opportunity to throw "digs" at one another. Killing Caylee was just one more "dig" that Casey threw at Cindy. Not only that, but Casey was totally dependent upon Cindy for her livelihood. When Caylee came along Casey then had to share Cindy's resources as well as share the love and affection Cindy had to dole out. IOW, Casey's "Princess" status was usurped by Caylee. Casey wanted to regain that status. So she killed Caylee and now she's the reigning princess in the house again (or at least she was until she started living at the jail).

What do you make of the computer searches?

[Scampi]

I thought there was a high level of chloroform in the trunk. Still can't wrap my head around why she would kill Caylee when she could have left her with CA...I know, the "spiteful b@@@h" comment to Lee. but it's such an insane step to deliberately kill her. I go back and forth on it.

Because in my opionion the person she hated the most was Caylee. Why? Because she was forced to have Caylee and when she did both her parents showered Caylee with attention and material items that casey anthony wanted for herself. She was jealous of her own child.

As Caylee got older, she prevented casey anthony from living the swinging life she preferred and was the cause of friction between cindy, george and casey. Something had to go and that turned out to be Caylee.

IMO

[Patty437]

Because in my opionion the person she hated the most was Caylee. Why? Because she was forced to have Caylee and when she did both her parents showered Caylee with attention and material items that casey anthony wanted for herself. She was jealous of her own child.

As Caylee got older, she prevented casey anthony from living the swinging life she preferred and was the cause of friction between cindy, george and casey. Something had to go and that turned out to be Caylee.

IMO

I agree with you. It just seems like there had to be a turning point or some driving force that caused this. The "big fight" on the 15th could have been the straw the broke the camel's back for Casey. Who told Lee about that fight........G or C? Do we know?

[seeing_eye]

What do you make of the computer searches?

I think most of the searches were done by Casey or George since they were done while Cindy was working. Most of the searches are relevant to the case. The search for shovel was not, IMO. I think the searches show premeditation. I think it's possible the search for how to make chloroform may have been to use in Casey's effort to get rid of Cindy and/or George. JMO

[Scampi]

I agree with you. It just seems like there had to be a turning point or some driving force that caused this. The "big fight" on the 15th could have been the straw the broke the camel's back for Casey. Who told Lee about that fight........G or C? Do we know?

I thought casey told lee about the fight.

The neck breaking and other searches in March always made me think casey anthony may have been thinking about murdering her parents. The fact that all her friends were planning the trip to PR, which she was not going to be able to afford could have been the motive.

But, as events escalated her attention turned to Caylee's murder as a way to free herself and also as a way to spite and hurt her parents.

IMO

[seeing_eye]

I agree with you. It just seems like there had to be a turning point or some driving force that caused this. The "big fight" on the 15th could have been the straw the broke the camel's back for Casey. Who told Lee about that fight........G or C? Do we know?

I don't believe the "big fight" was the cause of the murder. I think the murder was in the planning for quite a while. But the "big fight" may have been the trigger. IOW, the "gun" was already loaded and the "big fight" just pulled the trigger that propelled the "bullet."

[*MoonRider*]

Because in my opionion the person she hated the most was Caylee. Why? Because she was forced to have Caylee and when she did both her parents showered Caylee with attention and material items that casey anthony wanted for herself. She was jealous of her own child.

As Caylee got older, she prevented casey anthony from living the swinging life she preferred and was the cause of friction between cindy, george and casey. Something had to go and that turned out to be Caylee.

IMO

I totally agree that Casey was jealous of Caylee. So sad.

[MT2]

Just reading DC's motion does his attorney really think after the last lies in court with Rodriguez that this motion will fly with Judge Strickland?

[Kathlb]

I don't believe the "big fight" was the cause of the murder. I think the murder was in the planning for quite a while. But the "big fight" may have been the trigger. IOW, the "gun" was already loaded and the "big fight" just pulled the trigger that propelled the "bullet."

I agree that it was in the planning stage for quite awhile. She was mad that Cindy kept calling her to go home from clubs, etc. and take care of her daughter, as well as seeing a "new life" that could be with tonE but he didn't want kids. The catalyst was the fight where Cindy tried to choke her on the 15th. I think she either left that night or in the morning and it seemed the perfect time to do what she had been planning all along since she was livid over Cindy's actions and knew it would hurt Cindy badly. So she grabbed her blanket, duct tape, etc. and left. That might have set the leaving off until late that night after everyone was asleep. She did the deed and came back later on and borrowed a shovel to bury her...couldn't do it and left again. After another day or so, she dumped her body and moved on... My timeline might be off, but I think it was close to this scenario.

When we read and study about psychopaths, and the fact that they don't feel much of anything for anyone but themselves, it works. It really fits into her dumping Caylee and moving on in her life to party with not a thought of Caylee after that, only when someone asked about her. Psychopaths lack that empathy feeling for others. One article I read stated that it could be described as their "having no soul". JMHO

[MissouriGMom]

I thought casey told lee about the fight.

The neck breaking and other searches in March always made me think casey anthony may have been thinking about murdering her parents. The fact that all her friends were planning the trip to PR, which she was not going to be able to afford could have been the motive.

But, as events escalated her attention turned to Caylee's murder as a way to free herself and also as a way to spite and hurt her parents.

IMO

Scamp, do you know when Casey told Lee about the fight? I feel sure that there was a fight, but I bet there were plenty of them. I think the fight story was to give a reason for her departure from their home. Of course, the real reason she left and stayed away is because she had murdered Caylee.

I think her parents might have been her original targets, but then TonE came along.

moo

[snowflakes]

Scamp, do you know when Casey told Lee about the fight? I feel sure that there was a fight, but I bet there were plenty of them. I think the fight story was to give a reason for her departure from their home. Of course, the real reason she left and stayed away is because she had murdered Caylee.

I think her parents might have been her original targets, but then TonE came along.

moo

I've never thought her parents were the original targets. Who would pay for her upkeep? The house still had a hefty mortgage, credit card bills, etc. And then she would still be responsible for Caylee with no built-in babysitters.

[MissouriGMom]

I've never thought her parents were the original targets. Who would pay for her upkeep? The house still had a hefty mortgage, credit card bills, etc. And then she would still be responsible for Caylee with no built-in babysitters.

I'm assuming that at least Cindy had life insurance. Does anyone know that? Who knows what things went through Casey's brain?

:scared:

[Sun]

Just reading DC's motion does his attorney really think after the last lies in court with Rodriguez that this motion will fly with Judge Strickland?

I'm very, very suspicious that possibly that motion was drafted from the Baez defense camp. Just the wording on the signage page.

[Patty437]

I'm assuming that at least Cindy had life insurance. Does anyone know that? Who knows what things went through Casey's brain?

:scared:

Yeah, Cindy could well have had life insurance..probably thru work. Casey told Amy to move in with her....there's more money right there.

[MT2]

I'm very, very suspicious that possibly that motion was drafted from the Baez defense camp. Just the wording on the signage page.

Very well could have been.Times running out, There's what 11 days before he's supposed to be deposed. Does anyone think its a possibilty that SA office will use transcripts from M&M hearing with DC in front of Judge Strickland.. I'm betting they may use them in there depo to ask him questions.

Is there a hearing date set for this motion?

[MissouriGMom]

Yeah, Cindy could well have had life insurance..probably thru work. Casey told Amy to move in with her....there's more money right there.

Yep, and she told Amy that it would be just the 3 of us girls. She changed her game plan when she and TL became more involved.

moo

[LadyHam]

My take on the statement "they haven't even found her clothes" refers to the fact that Casey knew Caylee's remains had been reduced to basically nothing.

That is what I think as well.

[Sun]

Very well could have been.Times running out, There's what 11 days before he's supposed to be deposed. Does anyone think its a possibilty that SA office will use transcripts from M&M hearing with DC in front of Judge Strickland.. I'm betting they may use them in there depo to ask him questions.

Is there a hearing date set for this motion?

I've seen no hearing date set, and Judge Strickland may very well not allow for the delay, delay, delay tactics that we've seen going on in the Civil Case. I'm at a loss to see how DCasey thinks that he can get out of sitting for a deposition by the State.

[kakax]

Understanding Forensics: Roles, Terminology, and the Null Hypothesis


http://www.thehinkymeter.com/?p=342

[need2no]

I'm assuming that at least Cindy had life insurance. Does anyone know that? Who knows what things went through Casey's brain?

:scared:

Cindy could have had mortgage insurance. In the event of her death the house would be paid off. Amy could pay rent which would cover the utilities. Still makes little sense...what about George and Lee's share of the home? Groceries, insurance, gas, clothes, spending money, etc.

But ITA, who knows what was in that mixed up crazy mind of casey. Clearly she was not a detail kinda person.

[denjet]

Just reading DC's motion does his attorney really think after the last lies in court with Rodriguez that this motion will fly with Judge Strickland?

Hi MT2!
I think there are two depos that DC's trying to get out of ... one being the Zenaida, the other being the State's in the murder case ...

I'm confused as to how someone can just get out of a deposition by claiming privilege like a lawyer and not have to answer any questions whatsoever ...

I thought that a person has to comply with the deposition and then if there are questions they refuse to answer based on privilege that their lawyer has to explain how it is privilege and prove it ...

Maybe Katprint can shed some light on it ... :confused:

[desmom]

Cindy could have had mortgage insurance. In the event of her death the house would be paid off. Amy could pay rent which would cover the utilities. Still makes little sense...what about George and Lee's share of the home? Groceries, insurance, gas, clothes, spending money, etc.

But ITA, who knows what was in that mixed up crazy mind of casey. Clearly she was not a detail kinda person.

If Casey's internet surfing in March was a murder plan, I think she would eliminated both her parents.

Scenario: What if Casey found their life insurance policies and/or the mortgage insurance policy? The house paid for and 2 checks from a life insurance may have looked pretty good to Casey.

Scenario: Did Cindy and George update their wills around that time and tell Casey they left the house to her and Caylee? Cindy said she could never throw Casey and Caylee out of the house. Maybe Casey thought she would push things along so she could inherit the house.

jmo

[MissouriGMom]

If Casey's internet surfing in March was a murder plan, I think she would eliminated both her parents.

Scenario: What if Casey found their life insurance policies and/or the mortgage insurance policy? The house paid for and 2 checks from a life insurance may have looked pretty good to Casey.

Scenario: Did Cindy and George update their wills around that time and tell Casey they left the house to her and Caylee? Cindy said she could never throw Casey and Caylee out of the house. Maybe Casey thought she would push things along so she could inherit the house.

jmo

Des, very interesting scenarios. I really do think that Casey was toying with the idea of offing her parents. Cindy must have wondered about that when Amy told her about their house plans.

[denjet]

If Casey's internet surfing in March was a murder plan, I think she would eliminated both her parents.

Scenario: What if Casey found their life insurance policies and/or the mortgage insurance policy? The house paid for and 2 checks from a life insurance may have looked pretty good to Casey.

Scenario: Did Cindy and George update their wills around that time and tell Casey they left the house to her and Caylee? Cindy said she could never throw Casey and Caylee out of the house. Maybe Casey thought she would push things along so she could inherit the house.

jmo
Hi des!

I wouldn't put anything past KC and I've thought right along that she was trying to figure out some way to get the house ... most banks now require mortgage life insurance, especially if a property has been refinanced and a good portion of the equity taken out of it ... it's probably fair to say that Cindy had life insurance through her work but who knows if any of that had been cashed in ... it's does sound like KC was draining them financially though ... :shrug:

[desmom]

Des, very interesting scenarios. I really do think that Casey was toying with the idea of offing her parents. Cindy must have wondered about that when Amy told her about their house plans.

Cindy question the Mother of the Year? Never! :tonguewag:

[desmom]

Hi des!

I wouldn't put anything past KC and I've thought right along that she was trying to figure out some way to get the house ... most banks now require mortgage life insurance, especially if a property has been refinanced and a good portion of the equity taken out of it ... it's probably fair to say that Cindy had life insurance through her work but who knows if any of that had been cashed in ... it's does sound like KC was draining them financially though ... :shrug:


We know Casey was a snooper...remember the altered deposit slip she gave Cindy showing Casey had "deposited" money in her mom's account, the checks she stole....

Now I am curious.. I wonder how much life insurance George and Cindy have and what is in their wills. I bet Casey knows. :tonguewag:

[crimeq]

You know what gets me? She drove by where Caylee was many times. This to me is one huge indication she is a psychopath. She would get in the car to play the sunglasses game and not give a care in the world she was passing her daughter's remains. :sad:

I honestly can not imagine. I drive by the cemetary where my grandparents are and I think of them every time still. Makes me very sad and they died years and years ago.

Hi Kakax, doesn't that street dead-end at the school? So the drive out of Casey's neighborhood would be in the opposite direction?

[MissouriGMom]

Cindy question the Mother of the Year? Never! :tonguewag:

Never out loud, that's for sure. But I bet her mind went there. She knows her little sociopath of a daughter all too well.

[denjet]

We know Casey was a snooper...remember the altered deposit slip she gave Cindy showing Casey had "deposited" money in her mom's account, the checks she stole....

Now I am curious.. I wonder how much life insurance George and Cindy have and what is in their wills. I bet Casey knows. :tonguewag:

I'll bet she does too des! She's seems to have spent a lot of time
finding money and figuring out a way to get her hands on it ... so much so that it was a full time "job" for her ... no wonder KC had no time for a real job! :sneaky:

[kakax]

Hi Kakax, doesn't that street dead-end at the school? So the drive out of Casey's neighborhood would be in the opposite direction?


I thought that Caylee's body was found where Hope Dr. dead ended into Suburban. You make a left and go to the school that dead ends and you turn right to go out of the neighborhood.

I think you could turn left or right from the Anthonys driveway to get out of the neighborhood.

I need to look at a map.

[kakax]

I thought that Caylee's body was found where Hope Dr. dead ended into Suburban. You make a left and go to the school that dead ends and you turn right to go out of the neighborhood.

I think you could turn left or right from the Anthonys driveway to get out of the neighborhood.

I need to look at a map.

Sorry it is Hopespring Dr. If you make a right I believe out of the Anthony driveway you would dead into Suburban. At this intersection is where Caylee was found, IIRC. If you go to the left...you would be taken out of the neighborhood. If you go to the right you would head towards the school at the dead end.

[kakax]

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=anthony's%20address%20on%20hopespring&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADFA_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

This is their address and you can see how Hopespring dead ends into Suburban.

[Scampi]

We know Casey was a snooper...remember the altered deposit slip she gave Cindy showing Casey had "deposited" money in her mom's account, the checks she stole....

Now I am curious.. I wonder how much life insurance George and Cindy have and what is in their wills. I bet Casey knows. :tonguewag:

Oh I bet cindy confided all to her loving daughter and best friend casey when she kicked george out of the house. I bet the MOTY got the "gleam" in her eye then. :loveeyes:

[hello its me]

Cindy question the Mother of the Year? Never! :tonguewag:

oh, I bet Cindy had some words for MOTY, or else why go to the bathroom and turn on the water to drown out the sounds. I doubt they were questions, though. :sneaky: We've seen Cindy in action with that mouth.

[Chardonnay]

oh, I bet Cindy had some words for MOTY, or else why go to the bathroom and turn on the water to drown out the sounds. I doubt they were questions, though. :sneaky: We've seen Cindy in action with that mouth.

I missed that little tidbit. I remember Baez taking KC in a room and cranked up the music so he could talk to her in private..

[crimeq]

I have often wondered if Casey took the landry bag, trash bags and duct tape from the Anthony home to try and frame Cindy or George for Caylee's death. Casey was no stranger to shopping on Amy's checks and could have easily bought the items she needd to dispose Caylee with or even dumped Caylee without any bags or tape.

I believe there is ALOT of unseen anger between Casey and her parents and I wouldnt put it past Casey to try and blame them...

JMHO

Hugs,
Spyder

Casey's stolen funds were limited. Why would she purchase something other than lingerie, sunglasses and beer when she could steal items like duct tape and laundry bags from her parents' house? I think Casey was a pragmatic thief.

[crimeq]

I agree with you. It just seems like there had to be a turning point or some driving force that caused this. The "big fight" on the 15th could have been the straw the broke the camel's back for Casey. Who told Lee about that fight........G or C? Do we know?

Patty, the fight on the heels of Casey's new "intended", TonE, telling her he didn't want children--or if he did, he would want a son.

This part of Casey's story becomes very ala Susan Smith.

[Scampi]

Patty, the fight on the heels of Casey's new "intended", TonE, telling her he didn't want children--or if he did, he would want a son.

This part of Casey's story becomes very ala Susan Smith.

Sure does and if memory serves we have never seen a report by Lazzaro about his conversation and texting with casey anthony on the night of June 15 into the 16th. That conversation could be very revealing, imo.

[desmom]

Oh I bet cindy confided all to her loving daughter and best friend casey when she kicked george out of the house. I bet the MOTY got the "gleam" in her eye then. :loveeyes:

Hmm, forgot about the separation. George talked about it in his state depo: page 116, line 15 http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310228/detail.html

...I know when Cindy and I separated, the one thing she said was: If you want to leave, that's fine. But Casey and Caylee are always going to stay here.

You know, if I wanted to get up and just go, you know, that was my decision. But, you know, she just knew that where Casey was at and where Caylee was at was their refuge, their home. Even though it was still my home, but she just says: --

--they'll just stay here with me. She says: Three women can function together, you know, without having a man around; which they proved that. They can function pretty well without me, so --

[achristie]

Sure does and if memory serves we have never seen a report by Lazzaro about his conversation and texting with casey anthony on the night of June 15 into the 16th. That conversation could be very revealing, imo.

I've only seen one interview with Tony L. Based on that, I got the feeling he wasn't too invested in the relationship.

MOO Aggie

[onlykaty]

I'm still shaking my head over the fact they gave June 9th as the last time Casey and Caylee was home. I know its easy sometimes to be a day off but don't most people remember what day it is as a rule? All three of them said June 9th. Maybe it means nothing but it sure is a little strange to me. It was even Fathers Day week-end, something that should have stuck in their minds. Cindy said she was just mixed up on when Fathers Day week-end was. The only thing I can conclude is one of them stated June 9th and the other two just went along with it.."shrugs"

[desmom]

I've only seen one interview with Tony L. Based on that, I got the feeling he wasn't too invested in the relationship.

MOO Aggie

Aggie - I have 2 interviews for Tone L.

7/28/08 with OCSO - http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21310228/detail.html

9/08/08 with OCSO - http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Lazaro%20%20Tony.090808.pdf

[desmom]

Sure does and if memory serves we have never seen a report by Lazzaro about his conversation and texting with casey anthony on the night of June 15 into the 16th. That conversation could be very revealing, imo.

There were some 7/16/08 text messages between Tone and Casey in one of the doc dumps. Tone pulled them off his Blackberry and sent them to LE.

page 42 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2811058/Casey-Anthony-Documents-Released-Nov-26-007

jmo

[crimeq]

Sure does and if memory serves we have never seen a report by Lazzaro about his conversation and texting with casey anthony on the night of June 15 into the 16th. That conversation could be very revealing, imo.

I am really looking forward to TonE's testimony, and watching Casey's reaction to his testimony!

TonE can provide heretofore unknown information about Casey's behavior during those hours immediately after she killed Caylee.

And OH me, OH my, I can just imagine the emotions we'll see cross Casey's face while TonE is on the stand testifying against her!

[SC7501]

Just throwing this out there:
Do you think Casey purposely killed Caylee or did she dose her, duct tape her to quiet Caylee, and she accidently died, resulting in panic and cover up?

I wonder if we will ever know for sure. -- But I don't think anyone would put duct tape on anyone's face, let alone a child, with any expectation of removing it and having things go on as before. I would think she either intentionally killed her with the tape, or put it on afterwards to contain fluids. (gross as that sounds)

[MissouriGMom]

I'm still shaking my head over the fact they gave June 9th as the last time Casey and Caylee was home. I know its easy sometimes to be a day off but don't most people remember what day it is as a rule? All three of them said June 9th. Maybe it means nothing but it sure is a little strange to me. It was even Fathers Day week-end, something that should have stuck in their minds. Cindy said she was just mixed up on when Fathers Day week-end was. The only thing I can conclude is one of them stated June 9th and the other two just went along with it.."shrugs"

IIRC, it was Cindy's mom who gave them the wrong date. They called sometime either late on July 15 or early 16 to ask her. Actually, that's probably the only mistake they made that might have been an innocent one.

moo

[SC7501]

IIRC, it was Cindy's mom who gave them the wrong date. They called sometime either late on July 15 or early 16 to ask her. Actually, that's probably the only mistake they made that might have been an innocent one.

moo

Just as strange (to me anyway) is that Casey was apparently keeping track of the actual number of days and knew that it was 31. Why, I wonder. It certainly wasn't because she was missing Caylee. -- Counting off days of freedom or something?

[Kathlb]

I am really looking forward to TonE's testimony, and watching Casey's reaction to his testimony!

TonE can provide heretofore unknown information about Casey's behavior during those hours immediately after she killed Caylee.

And OH me, OH my, I can just imagine the emotions we'll see cross Casey's face while TonE is on the stand testifying against her!

IMHO she'll be poking herself in the eye again and hoping he notices and takes pity on her. :rolleyes: I think it's VERY strange that Cindy was supposedly tired of working and watching Caylee, but never wanted them to have a life with a husband slash daddy and stay right there with her. Control freak?? *cough* *hack*

[MissouriGMom]

Just as strange (to me anyway) is that Casey was apparently keeping track of the actual number of days and knew that it was 31. Why, I wonder. It certainly wasn't because she was missing Caylee. -- Counting off days of freedom or something?

You've got me there. She seems to be the only one who knew how long Caylee was gone and kept her mouth shut when Grandma gave the wrong date.

[denjet]

I'm still shaking my head over the fact they gave June 9th as the last time Casey and Caylee was home. I know its easy sometimes to be a day off but don't most people remember what day it is as a rule? All three of them said June 9th. Maybe it means nothing but it sure is a little strange to me. It was even Fathers Day week-end, something that should have stuck in their minds. Cindy said she was just mixed up on when Fathers Day week-end was. The only thing I can conclude is one of them stated June 9th and the other two just went along with it.."shrugs"

Hi katy!
Doesn't make sense that Cindy especially would not know the day, meaning Father's day, as the last day she saw Caylee ... IIRC she hadn't seen Caylee much that week before Father's day ... if she didn't know the date, that's one thing, but she did NOT say anything about it being Father's Day to LE ... nothing ... and she didn't double check a calendar either ... she only came up with the correct date when she realized there was a video of her and Caylee and it was on KC's laptop too (remember Tony said KC was watching it) ... One way or another Cindy was determined to bury the 15th and the fight that happened ... At least, that's what I think

What I find incredibly stupid is when she came up with the 9th, she didn't change the 31 days to 38 ... WTH ?? ... for someone that pride's herself as being superior intellectually, she's made a lot of stupid mistakes or are those "misspeaks" ... is it any wonder why LE didn't believe anything she was dishing out ??

[SC7501]

You've got me there. She seems to be the only one who knew how long Caylee was gone and kept her mouth shut when Grandma gave the wrong date.

Yes. -- Funny that whereas most people (I think) would tend to know a date but not the number of days, KC knew the number of days but not the date. And all the information was there. I mean one was saying June 8th and one was saying 31 days and no one was saying wait a minute, something doesn't fit.

[Patty437]

You've got me there. She seems to be the only one who knew how long Caylee was gone and kept her mouth shut when Grandma gave the wrong date.

Wonder what line of BS Cindy would give if asked why caylee never called her or george while out her "beach, Disney World, nanny" adventures....both of them had to wonder during that month before all hell broke loose.

[summer]

Just a quick drop-in but IIRC Tony said in one of this interviews that one of his long conversations with Casey around this time was of a ... uh... romantic nature. Somehow my mind went to phone s*x. Dunno.

[gaelicpeas]

Just a quick drop-in but IIRC Tony said in one of this interviews that one of his long conversations with Casey around this time was of a ... uh... romantic nature. Somehow my mind went to phone s*x. Dunno.Yes, I believe he said it was pillow talk on the night of June 15.

[onlykaty]

Hi katy!
Doesn't make sense that Cindy especially would not know the day, meaning Father's day, as the last day she saw Caylee ... IIRC she hadn't seen Caylee much that week before Father's day ... if she didn't know the date, that's one thing, but she did NOT say anything about it being Father's Day to LE ... nothing ... and she didn't double check a calendar either ... she only came up with the correct date when she realized there was a video of her and Caylee and it was on KC's laptop too (remember Tony said KC was watching it) ... One way or another Cindy was determined to bury the 15th and the fight that happened ... At least, that's what I think

What I find incredibly stupid is when she came up with the 9th, she didn't change the 31 days to 38 ... WTH ?? ... for someone that pride's herself as being superior intellectually, she's made a lot of stupid mistakes or are those "misspeaks" ... is it any wonder why LE didn't believe anything she was dishing out ??

I thought the same thing, for some reason, probably the fight between her and Casey, she was willing to let the date be wrong. Yes, the video is what set it all straight. I don't beleive she really had forgotten when the last time Caylee was there in her home, I beleive she started counting each day before a week was up. Also I beleive that at sometime or other her and George talked about how long long they had been gone. Its been cover up after cover up from the first day this all started from both G and C.

[seeing_eye]

I wonder if we will ever know for sure. -- But I don't think anyone would put duct tape on anyone's face, let alone a child, with any expectation of removing it and having things go on as before. I would think she either intentionally killed her with the tape, or put it on afterwards to contain fluids. (gross as that sounds)

If the tape was put on for the purpose of containing fluids, wouldn't she have to put tape on all openings? I don't think there was enough tape recovered for all that. Also the way her face and hair was taped, I don't believe there was any intention of ever removing it. I believe it was the murder weapon. MOO

[denjet]

I thought the same thing, for some reason, probably the fight between her and Casey, she was willing to let the date be wrong. Yes, the video is what set it all straight. I don't beleive she really had forgotten when the last time Caylee was there in her home, I beleive she started counting each day before a week was up. Also I beleive that at sometime or other her and George talked about how long long they had been gone. Its been cover up after cover up from the first day this all started from both G and C.
Well the date of the 9th that Cindy picked was deliberate ... why she did we can only guess at ... ITA about covering up from the very first night ... some people say the A's were in denial but I don't think so ... they KNEW Caylee was gone and they knew what the smell in the trunk was ... the only denial that the A's may have is believing that KC premeditated and murdered Caylee ... they may still not be able to nor want to believe that their daughter could do such a thing

[AnnieKins]

Do you know this delightful poem by Kliban?

Love to eat dem mousies. Mousies dat I love to eat. Bite they little heads off. nibble on dey tiny feet. - Kliban

LOL Good one! :thumbsup:

[AnnieKins]

I am really looking forward to TonE's testimony, and watching Casey's reaction to his testimony!

TonE can provide heretofore unknown information about Casey's behavior during those hours immediately after she killed Caylee.

And OH me, OH my, I can just imagine the emotions we'll see cross Casey's face while TonE is on the stand testifying against her!

I don't think we'll see any emotion at all, Crime. I think she'll just sit there with her dead shark eyes with no emotion whatsoever. Even just the though of it makes me shiver. :scared:

[Katprint]

I don't think we'll see any emotion at all, Crime. I think she'll just sit there with her dead shark eyes with no emotion whatsoever. Even just the though of it makes me shiver. :scared:
I respectfully disagree. I think we will see more of the crocodile tears we have seen in the past, with more poking-eyes-with-fingernails as well.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[MrsHudson]

Yep, Cindy and George taught KC everything she knows ... how proud they must be ... and they'll never admit, not even to themselves, that they had anything to do with how she turned out ... guaranteed it will be everyone else's fault but not their's ...

You nailed it. They are either dysfunctional to the extreme or just plain evil. Remember how they smiled so proudly when Casey first appeard in court in prison garb and chains? You would think she was a blushing bride coming down the isle!! Really! It was soooo wierd. Or maybe they were smiling because their daughter had turned out to be a total loser and somehow inside they had fullfilled some sick destiny or script. I always think of the book The People of the Lie by Scott Peck.

In that book he writes about how evil people hide their motives with lies, want to appear good and are quite comfortable living a false reality. The actions of evil people confound us and we can't make sense of why they do what they do. They fit the description to a Tee in my opinion.

[MrsHudson]

I respectfully disagree. I think we will see more of the crocodile tears we have seen in the past, with more poking-eyes-with-fingernails as well.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

And don't forget the hair primping. Gah if I have to watch her push her hair back 900 times I am going to go crazy. She is way too worried about her looks considering the circumstances.

[AnnieKins]

I respectfully disagree. I think we will see more of the crocodile tears we have seen in the past, with more poking-eyes-with-fingernails as well.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

I don't think we disagree at all, Kat. I do think there will more stabbing at the old eyeballs with a finger and/or kleenex. But that isn't emotion; that's emoting.

[SC7501]

I don't think we'll see any emotion at all, Crime. I think she'll just sit there with her dead shark eyes with no emotion whatsoever. Even just the though of it makes me shiver. :scared:

I agree. -- What I wonder about is George's testimony. I don't think he's ever been truthful in front of Cindy before. I wonder if he can do it. Most likely there will be a huge photo of Caylee in the court room somewhere. Hopefully he will focus on that and do what needs to be done.

[summer]

I agree. -- What I wonder about is George's testimony. I don't think he's ever been truthful in front of Cindy before. I wonder if he can do it. Most likely there will be a huge photo of Caylee in the court room somewhere. Hopefully he will focus on that and do what needs to be done.

IMO I think he'll be combative, defensive and use every ploy in the book to deflect questioning -- ultimately he won't be able to give non-answers so I think he'll lie straight in the face of the judge, the jury and the prosecutors. Barring that he'll shut down and be taken away and thrown in jail for contempt. IMO he will never tell the truth now. I think any shred of goodness the guy might have had is long gone. Georgie's gone to the dark side.

[Addy]

You've got me there. She seems to be the only one who knew how long Caylee was gone and kept her mouth shut when Grandma gave the wrong date.
I think nobody in that house breathes without Cindy's permission. jmo

[NosyParker]

I tend to stay away from making comments that are anti-Cindy and George simply because I believe that Casey and Casey alone, intentionally murdered her daughter. I do however, think that George's satement that Cindy said Casey and Caylee will always live in that house and he can move on out is very telling. Add her recent comment on 48 Hour Mystery that, "It was not Casey's child. She belonged to all of us", or something similar. Caylee was Cindy's baby. Casey was the baby-sitter, in a sense. Cindy had too much control and had an unhealthy, enmeshed relationship with her daughter. No boundaries that seperated her from her daughter. I think Cindy would fight tooth and nail to keep Casey and Caylee in her house under her thumb forever and ever.

There is no reason that Casey couldn't take control back and raise her own daughter other then laziness. She had a good life sponging off of her mom. No responsiblities of paying for shelter, phone, electricity, gas, food, clothing or even spending money for herself, never mind her daughter. I think that in June, Cindy and George put pressure on Casey to step up to the plate and be a parent, she took off out of the home and the rest is history. Now they are covering because they feel guilty for applying pressure and because they still love their daughter and want to protect her. I don't doubt that they loved Caylee, but she is gone and now it's all about saving Casey. I know I'm repeating the sentiments of many people but sometimes it's worth reevaluating just to remember what really was going on.

[denjet]

You nailed it. They are either dysfunctional to the extreme or just plain evil. Remember how they smiled so proudly when Casey first appeard in court in prison garb and chains? You would think she was a blushing bride coming down the isle!! Really! It was soooo wierd. Or maybe they were smiling because their daughter had turned out to be a total loser and somehow inside they had fullfilled some sick destiny or script. I always think of the book The People of the Lie by Scott Peck.

In that book he writes about how evil people hide their motives with lies, want to appear good and are quite comfortable living a false reality. The actions of evil people confound us and we can't make sense of why they do what they do. They fit the description to a Tee in my opinion.

Hi Mrs!
BBM
Seems to describe Cindy and KC accurately! How hollow these people must be, and shallow and all the other "lows" ... their whole reality is lie upon lie to create the images of themselves and their family that they want people to see ... so perfect, so superior ...

Well they're exposed now !! Cindy thinks she's doing damage control and swaying public opinion ... Ha .. she's not only a sociopath, she's delusional ... (an pathetic)

[seeing_eye]

IMO I think he'll be combative, defensive and use every ploy in the book to deflect questioning -- ultimately he won't be able to give non-answers so I think he'll lie straight in the face of the judge, the jury and the prosecutors. Barring that he'll shut down and be taken away and thrown in jail for contempt. IMO he will never tell the truth now. I think any shred of goodness the guy might have had is long gone. Georgie's gone to the dark side.

OMG, I can't believe how many people have been duped by George from the beginning. It just proves what a good actor he can be when he wants to or needs to. George has always been on the dark side and has never left the dark side. The reason he can fool so many people is that he is a chameleon just like Casey. Cindy is different. She is never a chameleon. She is just plain evil and obnoxious. George is a loser and always will be. He cannot make his own way in this world. He must always be a parasite, living off the earnings of others -- just as Casey is. George gets away with this by playing on others' sympathy, hence his suicide attempt by pizza and beer and always accusing others of not caring about him. GMAB, take off your blinders and see George in the real light. This is JMO, of course, and I could be wrong. I was wrong before in 1977.

[summer]

OMG, I can't believe how many people have been duped by George from the beginning. It just proves what a good actor he can be when he wants to or needs to. George has always been on the dark side and has never left the dark side. The reason he can fool so many people is that he is a chameleon just like Casey. Cindy is different. She is never a chameleon. She is just plain evil and obnoxious. George is a loser and always will be. He cannot make his own way in this world. He must always be a parasite, living off the earnings of others -- just as Casey is. George gets away with this by playing on others' sympathy, hence his suicide attempt by pizza and beer and always accusing others of not caring about him. GMAB, take off your blinders and see George in the real light. This is JMO, of course, and I could be wrong. I was wrong before in 1977.

Excuse me. I said: any shred of goodness he MAY have had. Or maybe you responded to the wrong post and comment because I have no *blinders* on. Thanks.

[Addy]

I am still slogging through Cindy's deposition (sigh). Has this already been discussed to peices? This statement has me stumped -- from page 467, "......because no one had known -- I didn't even tell George or Lee that Caylee's blanket was there."

Did Cindy mean to say Caylee's blanket was missing? How did she know Caylee's blanket "was there". (Do we know where Caylee's blanket was found? was it with Caylee, or was it outside the bag and left there later?) :confused:

[summer]

I think everyone in this world has or *had* a shred of goodness at one time in their lives. Even every member of the Anthony family, including Cindy and Casey AND George. And I still don't have blinders on.

[ResJudicata]

And don't forget the hair primping. Gah if I have to watch her push her hair back 900 times I am going to go crazy. She is way too worried about her looks considering the circumstances.


Hi Mrs. Hudson.

A big hug for you (((((((YOU)))))) from me.

[seeing_eye]

Excuse me. I said: any shred of goodness he MAY have had. Or maybe you responded to the wrong post and comment because I have no *blinders* on. Thanks.

Sorry, summer, I didn't mean to single you out here. I was referring to everybody who keeps thinking that George is the "good" one in this family who is being brow-beaten by Cindy into doing whatever he is doing. I just don't believe he is any "gooder" than any other member of the Anthony family. He's just better at gaining sympathy from people than the others. But who knows? Maybe I'm the one with the blinders on so that I can't see his "goodness."

[MrsHudson]

I tend to stay away from making comments that are anti-Cindy and George simply because I believe that Casey and Casey alone, intentionally murdered her daughter. I do however, think that George's satement that Cindy said Casey and Caylee will always live in that house and he can move on out is very telling. Add her recent comment on 48 Hour Mystery that, "It was not Casey's child. She belonged to all of us", or something similar. Caylee was Cindy's baby. Casey was the baby-sitter, in a sense. Cindy had too much control and had an unhealthy, enmeshed relationship with her daughter. No boundaries that seperated her from her daughter. I think Cindy would fight tooth and nail to keep Casey and Caylee in her house under her thumb forever and ever.

There is no reason that Casey couldn't take control back and raise her own daughter other then laziness. She had a good life sponging off of her mom. No responsiblities of paying for shelter, phone, electricity, gas, food, clothing or even spending money for herself, never mind her daughter. I think that in June, Cindy and George put pressure on Casey to step up to the plate and be a parent, she took off out of the home and the rest is history. Now they are covering because they feel guilty for applying pressure and because they still love their daughter and want to protect her. I don't doubt that they loved Caylee, but she is gone and now it's all about saving Casey. I know I'm repeating the sentiments of many people but sometimes it's worth reevaluating just to remember what really was going on.

I agree with almost everything you said.

They should feel guilty but NOT for applying pressure. They should feel guilty for not knowing the babysitter's address and phone number. They should feel guilty for not making sure there was a babysitter and there was a job at Universal. They should feel guilty for not even admitting to the police that Casey stole from them and from her friends and her grandmother. They should feel guilty for blaming everyone but Casey for Caylee's fate. Heck it's not about "feeling" guilty THEY ARE GUILTY of a whole lot of terrible mistakes that culminated in Casey doing what she did and their covering for her even now. You say they love her and are protecting her. You are a nicer person than I am. I think they love themselves too. Believe me they don't want to be known as the parents of a murderess. That's a big part of the horrible way they have acted. They are also just so totally out of reality that it is inexcusable. They are not insane. They know right from wrong. In my opinion they are willfully lying about material issues related to a criminal case.

[SC7501]

Good or bad, I believe George truly loved Caylee and that it will not be easy for him to betray her. I'm just not sure he's got the guts not to. He certainly seems to be on the dark side right now, but he doesn't seem comfortable there. JMO

[MrsHudson]

Hi Mrs. Hudson.

A big hug for you (((((((YOU)))))) from me.

Awe that was a nice hug! :smile:

[seeing_eye]

Good or bad, I believe George truly loved Caylee and that it will not be easy for him to betray her. I'm just not sure he's got the guts not to. He certainly seems to be on the dark side right now, but he doesn't seem comfortable there. JMO

You may very well be right, and I certainly can be wrong. But so far, all I've been able to see in George is pretense.

[MrsHudson]

OMG, I can't believe how many people have been duped by George from the beginning. It just proves what a good actor he can be when he wants to or needs to. George has always been on the dark side and has never left the dark side. The reason he can fool so many people is that he is a chameleon just like Casey. Cindy is different. She is never a chameleon. She is just plain evil and obnoxious. George is a loser and always will be. He cannot make his own way in this world. He must always be a parasite, living off the earnings of others -- just as Casey is. George gets away with this by playing on others' sympathy, hence his suicide attempt by pizza and beer and always accusing others of not caring about him. GMAB, take off your blinders and see George in the real light. This is JMO, of course, and I could be wrong. I was wrong before in 1977.

So true! I have seen him do the "you don't care about me" bit more than once. To the media no less. They start asking hard questions and he changes the subject to "no one cares about me." Awe poor baby!!! I bet he used that one at home a lot.

[crimeq]

I don't think we'll see any emotion at all, Crime. I think she'll just sit there with her dead shark eyes with no emotion whatsoever. Even just the though of it makes me shiver. :scared:

Annie you may be right. She's been sitting in jail long enough now to know that her friends aren't going to come to her rescue in any way, but take her further down the pike.

Still -- keep in mind that the ONLY time Casey cries is when it's about her.

She's going to be hearing a lot of nasty stuff about herself; maybe it will make her feel so sorry for herself that she'll really cry :sneaky:

[SC7501]

You may very well be right, and I certainly can be wrong. But so far, all I've been able to see in George is pretense.

He's awful around Cindy, but then you see him on that last Larry King show and he just can't give the party (family) line. He knows what he's "supposed" to say, but he can't do it. Cindy has to take over. I don't know if he's better or not, but he is different.

[seeing_eye]

Annie you may be right. She's been sitting in jail long enough now to know that her friends aren't going to come to her rescue in any way, but take her further down the pike.

Still -- keep in mind that the ONLY time Casey cries is when it's about her.

She's going to be hearing a lot of nasty stuff about herself; maybe it will make her feel so sorry for herself that she'll really cry :sneaky:

If Casey starts feeling sorry for herself during the trial I suspect we'll be seeing real tears. And she won't even have to poke herself in the eyes.MOO

[crimeq]

OMG, I can't believe how many people have been duped by George from the beginning. It just proves what a good actor he can be when he wants to or needs to. George has always been on the dark side and has never left the dark side. The reason he can fool so many people is that he is a chameleon just like Casey. Cindy is different. She is never a chameleon. She is just plain evil and obnoxious. George is a loser and always will be. He cannot make his own way in this world. He must always be a parasite, living off the earnings of others -- just as Casey is. George gets away with this by playing on others' sympathy, hence his suicide attempt by pizza and beer and always accusing others of not caring about him. GMAB, take off your blinders and see George in the real light. This is JMO, of course, and I could be wrong. I was wrong before in 1977.

I was wrong once. That was the time I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken. :tonguewag:

[seeing_eye]

I was wrong once. That was the time I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken. :tonguewag:

Well!! I might have been mistaken too. Either that, or I was wrong. :rolleyes:

[crimeq]

If Casey starts feeling sorry for herself during the trial I suspect we'll be seeing real tears. And she won't even have to poke herself in the eyes.MOO

Yep, that's what I think too. :wink:

[MrsHudson]

Hi Mrs!
BBM
Seems to describe Cindy and KC accurately! How hollow these people must be, and shallow and all the other "lows" ... their whole reality is lie upon lie to create the images of themselves and their family that they want people to see ... so perfect, so superior ...

Well they're exposed now !! Cindy thinks she's doing damage control and swaying public opinion ... Ha .. she's not only a sociopath, she's delusional ... (an pathetic)

Only someone like George would put up with someone like Cindy. Only someone like Cindy and George would put up with Casey. And only someone like Lee would put up Casey, Cindy and George. It's a trifecta of enabling, dysfunction and lying liars. :w00t:

[NosyParker]

Mrs. Hudson, you've pointed out many reasons why they should feel guilty and I'm not disagreeing with you for any of them. I just noted, from my perspective, why this tragedy occured in the way that it did. Cindy and Casey's relationship was dysfunctional and they didn't have clear boundaries. They were literally enmeshed in their relationship. Cindy's sense of self doesn't stop at Cindy. Casey is a major part of her self worth. She feels that she owns Casey (and by proxy she also owned Caylee) and Casey's actions are a direct reflection on her, then and now.

I think Casey started to rebel, but she was too damn lazy to make a life for herself away from Cindy and George with Caylee in tow. Instead she used her sweet child as leverage and when that wasn't working anymore, and Cindy and George put their foot down, she just decided to get rid of her. Maybe for spite because she's a *****, or maybe because she hated her mom and it would break her heart, or maybe just because she didn't want the responsiblility of being a single mom and wanted to have a bella vida instead, or because ..... whatever. It's only my opinion. Not right, not wrong.

[AnnieKins]

OMG, I can't believe how many people have been duped by George from the beginning. It just proves what a good actor he can be when he wants to or needs to. George has always been on the dark side and has never left the dark side. The reason he can fool so many people is that he is a chameleon just like Casey. Cindy is different. She is never a chameleon. She is just plain evil and obnoxious. George is a loser and always will be. He cannot make his own way in this world. He must always be a parasite, living off the earnings of others -- just as Casey is. George gets away with this by playing on others' sympathy, hence his suicide attempt by pizza and beer and always accusing others of not caring about him. GMAB, take off your blinders and see George in the real light. This is JMO, of course, and I could be wrong. I was wrong before in 1977.

I am one who was fooled by George in the beginning too. He appeared like a nice man, he seemed to have a conscience, he seemed to be truthful. I think that because Cindy was so obnoxious and abrasive right from the get-go, a lot of us thought that she was the driving force and he was Mr. Nice Guy with his grimaces and his eyebrows and his shrugging shoulders.

It took some time to see that YES, Cindy is evil and the driving force but it didn't take a lot for us to see that George is evil in a different way.

Evil is evil. One depiction of evil isn't worse than another. These two make me want to hurl.

[AnnieKins]

If Casey starts feeling sorry for herself during the trial I suspect we'll be seeing real tears. And she won't even have to poke herself in the eyes.MOO

Well, as Nance would say, "Nyeek! Nyeek!" :laugh:

[NosyParker]

I started out feeling sorry for both of them. As time went on, all sympathy was gone. I agree, it took me a lot longer to figure out George. I think they both loved Caylee. Cindy has her dysfunctional relationship with Casey that I've mentioned, but George is a "player". He's not genuine and will always have an agenda. He's working the crowd.

[aproudmom]

Hi everyone just wanted to stop in an see if anything new. I still think of this baby everyday she is the reason I signed back up on here after a few years, it is just heartbreaking everytime I see her picture it breaks my heart. I sure wish I lived closer so I could sit there behind the Pros. and support JUSTICE 4 Caylee:rose:

[aproudmom]

If Casey starts feeling sorry for herself during the trial I suspect we'll be seeing real tears. And she won't even have to poke herself in the eyes.MOO

:thumbup:lol ITA I kept saying she was sticking that tissue in her eye to make or try to make a tear she sure did not fool me..JMO
I have only seen her cry when she was being arrested and a couple other times not like a mother who's child has been murdered by the nanny:mad: IMO

[desmom]

I tend to stay away from making comments that are anti-Cindy and George simply because I believe that Casey and Casey alone, intentionally murdered her daughter. I do however, think that George's satement that Cindy said Casey and Caylee will always live in that house and he can move on out is very telling. Add her recent comment on 48 Hour Mystery that, "It was not Casey's child. She belonged to all of us", or something similar. Caylee was Cindy's baby. Casey was the baby-sitter, in a sense. Cindy had too much control and had an unhealthy, enmeshed relationship with her daughter. No boundaries that seperated her from her daughter. I think Cindy would fight tooth and nail to keep Casey and Caylee in her house under her thumb forever and ever.

There is no reason that Casey couldn't take control back and raise her own daughter other then laziness. She had a good life sponging off of her mom. No responsiblities of paying for shelter, phone, electricity, gas, food, clothing or even spending money for herself, never mind her daughter. I think that in June, Cindy and George put pressure on Casey to step up to the plate and be a parent, she took off out of the home and the rest is history. Now they are covering because they feel guilty for applying pressure and because they still love their daughter and want to protect her. I don't doubt that they loved Caylee, but she is gone and now it's all about saving Casey. I know I'm repeating the sentiments of many people but sometimes it's worth reevaluating just to remember what really was going on.

BBM - You make a good point and I agree. It was reported Cindy did see a counselor about the issues with Casey. IIRC, it was suggested to Cindy she should throw Casey out and Cindy wouldn't throw her granddaughter out or something like that.

Maybe Cindy did set some new rules for Casey i.e. would contribute a set amount monthly to the household, Casey would be responsible for her own cell phone bill, Casey would have to get up with Caylee in the mornings, Cindy and George would not be available as often to babysit Caylee....

jmo

P.S. the cell phone bill still confuses me. IIRC, it was $300-$400 a month. AT&T has numerous packages that include unlimited text messages, internet access, free nights/weekends, free calls to other AT&T users etc. for around $100 a month.

[Scampi]

There were some 7/16/08 text messages between Tone and Casey in one of the doc dumps. Tone pulled them off his Blackberry and sent them to LE.

page 42 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2811058/Casey-Anthony-Documents-Released-Nov-26-007

jmo

Thanks Des. I am interested in Lazzaro's conversation with her during the late hours of June 15th into June 16th, if she did have a fight with cindy she may have whined about it to Lazzaro. To the best of my recollection, we have seen no reports from LE about these conversation or texts.

[Holden]

cindy never, ever wanted casey or Caylee to leave that house. She saw herself as their mother, their protector, their leader. In george's deposition when he talks about his pending separation from cindy, he says she told him casey and Caylee would never leave that home and that she didn't mind if he did. She made a choice, george accepted it (because it was easier than confronting this control freak, than trying to stand up to her). cindy thought she could keep her 2 girls forever in her grasp. She never anticipated casey killing Caylee, but she should have seen with all her daughter's stealing, lying, manipulating, that something big was coming down the pike, something life altering.

[MisterGrey]

BBM - You make a good point and I agree. It was reported Cindy did see a counselor about the issues with Casey. IIRC, it was suggested to Cindy she should throw Casey out and Cindy wouldn't throw her granddaughter out or something like that.

Maybe Cindy did set some new rules for Casey i.e. would contribute a set amount monthly to the household, Casey would be responsible for her own cell phone bill, Casey would have to get up with Caylee in the mornings, Cindy and George would not be available as often to babysit Caylee....

jmo

P.S. the cell phone bill still confuses me. IIRC, it was $300-$400 a month. AT&T has numerous packages that include unlimited text messages, internet access, free nights/weekends, free calls to other AT&T users etc. for around $100 a month.
Good morning desmon and thanks once again for your continued vigilance for Caylee.

Having raised a daughter, I suspect that over the years there had to have been an ongoing conflict between Cindy and Casey over cell phone bills.

This just might have been one instance where Cindy applied good parenting and told Casey since she was now an adult that she could pay for her own excessive phone bills.

(I can also picture the princess replying that she simply must have her phone for work, what if there was an emergency when she was off with Caylee in the car, "your not helping me help myself ", and we have seen her attempts with email excuses to show her parents that it was not her fault when she was short of cash.)

If this did occur and Cindy actually put her foot down on the cell phone then Cindy would never admit it IMO. First because it would indicate there was a problem and those pesky things did not exist in Cindy's perfect family and secondly because she views tough love = no love and she loved Casey, enough to never kick her out (unlike George).

Of course the simplest answer may be true. Casey wanted the service, could steal the money to pay for it and wasn't worried about being economically prudent with someone else's dime. Although we have seen the videos of Casey shopping and using coupons, I have always been of the belief that this was not a reflection of her usual habits but part of her sensationally great girlfriend persona she was creating for Tony. Not only could she compete in hot body contests but she could also be a wise and careful shopper. I can picture her cutting out coupons, chattering away while Tone and the roomies did guy stuff , played video games and ignored her.

[desmom]

Thanks Des. I am interested in Lazzaro's conversation with her during the late hours of June 15th into June 16th, if she did have a fight with cindy she may have whined about it to Lazzaro. To the best of my recollection, we have seen no reports from LE about these conversation or texts.

Tone and LE discuss June 15. It begins on page 13, line 9 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Lazaro%20%20Tony.090808.pdf

Tone said he thought the phone calls were mostly pillow talk. On page 15, Tone said "That could have been the night that she brought up about her thing with her mother and her father. Like I told you that they were having, the reason why she wanted to stay at my place was because that there was a problem with her father and her mother."

I can only find 2 interviews with TL, 7/28 (22 pages) and 9/08 (76 pages). I wonder if there is more out there we have not seen yet. Tone was polyed by the FBI. Will we get to see the questions, answers and results to the poly?

jmo

[MisterGrey]

Tone and LE discuss June 15. It begins on page 13, line 9 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Lazaro%20%20Tony.090808.pdf

Tone said he thought the phone calls were mostly pillow talk. On page 15, Tone said "That could have been the night that she brought up about her thing with her mother and her father. Like I told you that they were having, the reason why she wanted to stay at my place was because that there was a problem with her father and her mother."

I can only find 2 interviews with TL, 7/28 (22 pages) and 9/08 (76 pages). I wonder if there is more out there we have not seen yet. Tone was polyed by the FBI. Will we get to see the questions, answers and results to the poly?

jmo
Casey was using the excuse of her parents having marital conflicts to wiggle her way into the sanctuary Tony's neutral place.

[desmom]

Casey was using the excuse of her parents having marital conflicts to wiggle her way into the sanctuary Tony's neutral place.

I believe that household was full of conflicts and the root of the conflicts all point right back at Casey.

George said he talked to Cindy several times about Casey's antics and Cindy always said "George I will handle it" (paraphrasing). George also said he was putting money in a bank account and a piggy bank for Caylee and Casey stole all of it.

I can't imagine putting money in an account for my granddaughter, "allowing" my daughter to steal it and not doing something to stop it. I am beginning to think George told LE these things to focus the parenting blame game on Cindy.

jmo