[11/5 - GUILTY] 10/26 to ........

[texski]

thanks for all the links to updates about the trial. i really did not want to clean the house anyway, will spend the day on reading everywhere. love you.

[walton]

http://tripleap.tumblr.com/

Listen to K.Dee share her view on what she is seeing and hearing.

:thumbsup:

[texski]

i am not sure of the protocal, but hope this is the current thread???
very pleased to read that media interest from england and france were among the people who covered the first day of the trial.
good media coverage in texas, utah. also on some of the national evening news shows. hope the coverage continues.
the women from the flds group seemed to be trying to answer the questions honestly, saying which were related to the defendent by blood. i do not think that the ones remaining were asked if they knew the defendent. if he was one of the leaders of the group would they not all know him?
looking forward to tomorrows questioning. i thought the best coverage overall was on the [pdee blog.

[juliekan]

aarrrggg i was just looking at our last new thread....don't know who changed this, will be back in a minute, hopefully with out links.

[juliekan]

ok, coldwater nicely meshed all our recent posts together. just for those stopping by and wanting to get involved in this case, here's a quick reference.

http://www.myeldorado.net/

local newspaper, i believe Walton has even talked with them.

you have to subscribe, though, and cannot post whatever you read here other than you read something there. i believe i will maybe subscribe to them now that the trials are starting up. nothing like helping out a small town business

also
http://www.gosanangelo.com/

closest "big" town to Eldorado, used to have Paul Anthony who followed all this for the paper, but he has moved on. when i wrote them a month ago, asking who they have dedicated to this story, i got nothing back but a robo "thank you for reading our web pages."

actually, here's their newest story (by michael kelly who i e-mailed last month )

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009...begins-monday/

from
Texas-SE

Here's more, a Utah newspaper called the trial "a rare event". Read article: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...vent.html?pg=1

http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_13639489

Austin,Texas newspaper reports that Randy Mankin has been called for jury duty in Jessops trail, now that's irony!

http://www.statesman.com/news/conten...6eldorado.html

Houston Chronicle reports that trial may be moved to San Angelo, TX, from article: "State District Judge Barbara Walther will try to seat a jury in Eldorado.
But if it is not possible, it may be necessary to move the trial to nearby San Angelo."
Read entire article:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/6683515.html

here's some more texski, from http://texasflds.wordpress.com/

http://trenthead.com/polygamy/

http://www.perrybulwer.com/

http://www.perrybulwer.com/religion-...ld-abuse-news/

haven't looked at any of them yet, but I know Trent is a photographer that has worked with Brooke Adams http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/

here's K Dee's blog

http://tripleap.blogspot.com/

and the last post by Walton:

http://tripleap.tumblr.com/

K.Dee shares her view on todays events. Just click play.

[juliekan]

Sorry, CW, I guess my DH laptop is running behind somehow, but I swear I didn't see this new spot or the links thread etc. earlier. :shrug:

[juliekan]

i am not sure of the protocal, but hope this is the current thread???
very pleased to read that media interest from england and france were among the people who covered the first day of the trial.
good media coverage in texas, utah. also on some of the national evening news shows. hope the coverage continues.
the women from the flds group seemed to be trying to answer the questions honestly, saying which were related to the defendent by blood. i do not think that the ones remaining were asked if they knew the defendent. if he was one of the leaders of the group would they not all know him?
looking forward to tomorrows questioning. i thought the best coverage overall was on the [pdee blog.

how exciting that there are all these folks paying attention. now i've gotta go back and read...i totally got lost somehow...:tongueside:

[juliekan]

from what I've read so far, I think they may be able to seat a jury this time. but for upcoming trials?

and don't forget, in this part of Texas, people tend to live and let live. jmo. so don't think this will be an easy trial. if this had happened a little further north in Texas where i grew up in a small town (smalllllll town, with 9 churches), they would have jumped in their red escalades and left town before they would have gone to trial.

[texski]

my family has lived around the beaumont area since 1846. they are really into the idea that a mans home is his castle and no one, including the state officials, have the right to poke their nose into his private areas. one of my brothers would not let his wife read the book escape that i loaned to her. so i share your opinion about the locals not being the ideal jury .
i hope they get some younger men and older women on the jury.

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/oct/26/judge-lawyers-in-jessop-trial-sift-panel-as-jury/

He watched quietly all day Monday as 51st Judicial District Judge Barbara Walther worked to move forward the selection of 12 jurors and two alternates from among 153 Schleicher County residents who answered a summons for jury duty, including 17 members of Jessop’s sect.

“We’re hoping tomorrow we’re going to send most of you home,” Walther said Monday evening.

She dismissed all but 36 members of the jury panel and kept defense and prosecution attorneys after 5 p.m. Monday. The judge began having quiet discussions with lawyers and members of the jury panel who had various issues that could lead to their dismissal from the pool of potential jurors.

The issues? Seven FLDS sect members called for jury selection are related to Jessop, for one thing.


I wonder what he was thinking while all this was going on. :scared:

[walton]

my family has lived around the beaumont area since 1846. they are really into the idea that a mans home is his castle and no one, including the state officials, have the right to poke their nose into his private areas. one of my brothers would not let his wife read the book escape that i loaned to her. so i share your opinion about the locals not being the ideal jury .
i hope they get some younger men and older women on the jury.


One of your brothers wouldn't let his wife read a book you loaned her?

You should hook your brother up to the internet and bring him in for a good ol conversation with Walton.:biggrin:

[walton]

On Oct.25th Brooke posted an entry on her blog titled-The water fight.

Check it out. http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/

Why this doesn't hit headline news I have no idea. This is a big deal. Scratch the word big and insert the word HUGE.

Could some of the water problems in this area explain some of the infant deaths? Health problems? Warrens fruitiness?

What were those Knudson boys thinking?

What were any of them thinking?

When they first saw that Berry Knoll did they see a vision or did they see a vision of $$?

What is under that knoll? lol

wow!!

[walton]

Hey you guys I think I have finally made to a special place here at In-Session. According to my pm box info, I am now at the point I could receive 10,000 messages.

:biggrin:

[walton]

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8460808

Utah Supreme Court sets rules for Jeffs hearing

The Utah Supreme Court has issued an order outlining courtroom rules and security during an appeal hearing for Warren Jeffs, the polygamist church leader convicted on criminal charges in 2007.

The order signed by Associate Chief Justice Michael Durrant says the Nov. 3 hearing could generate significant public interest. Jeffs, 53, is head of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.



(The libraries are still offering free reading/sharing of newspapers)
:smile:

[juliekan]

Hey you guys I think I have finally made to a special place here at In-Session. According to my pm box info, I am now at the point I could receive 10,000 messages.

:biggrin:

:blink: lordy. beware what you post, you just might get that many responses :tongueside:

i'll be back to read more later. Glad to see the gang showing up...

[walton]

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/ <<< You have to check this out. Blues does it once again.

The entry titled- Welcome to Texas and the Theory of Minimum Contacts.

Some guy getting busted for howling at the moon.

One day I will learn the whole story.

[TexasBoots]

Hello all!

A friend told me you were over here posting, and paying attention to the FLDS abuse cases in Eldorado.

Thank you so much for caring about the future of human rights for Texas women and children.

k.Dee
Abuse is not a religion

[juliekan]

http://tripleap.blogspot.com/2009/10/free-pass.html

A Free Pass

[juliekan]

I wonder if the court knows this?

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/2009...ssop/#comments

check out this comment

On October 27, 2009 at 5:09 pm proudtexas Said:

Says that Janet Jeffs is part of the jury panel even though she has familial ties to the people in this case.

[juliekan]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6689679.html

State District Judge Barbara Walther heard Jessop's defense team make another go at keeping Deputy Attorney General Eric Nichols and his team from discussing polygamy or plural marriages, common within the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints, during the child sexual assault trial.

The judge refused to bar the mention of plural marriage or polygamy.

[juliekan]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/oct/27/judge-lawyers-continue-examining-potential-in/

FLDS: Sect patriarch let into court
Defense attorneys explore prospective jurors’ experiences with Child Protective Services

[juliekan]

I wonder if the court knows this?

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/2009...ssop/#comments

check out this comment

On October 27, 2009 at 5:09 pm proudtexas Said:

Says that Janet Jeffs is part of the jury panel even though she has familial ties to the people in this case.

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/2009/10/27/flds-jury-selection-state-v-raymond-jessop/#comment-5647

that other link did not work

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/oct/27/judge-lawyers-continue-examining-potential-in/

FLDS: Sect patriarch let into court
Defense attorneys explore prospective jurors’ experiences with Child Protective Services


Pictures. :smile: Does anyone know the 2 people in Law Enforcement? Is one of them Doran?

Jessop looks older than I thought.




First: Willie Jessop, an FLDS patriarch who often acts as the sect’s spokesman, said he came from his home in Hildale, Utah, at the request of defendant Raymond Merril Jessop, who is being tried on a charge of child sexual assault in connection with allegations that he married an underage girl.

And then he says this:

“Well, what percentage of the county are we?” he said.

At the time of the raid, several hundred people were living on the ranch. It’s unclear whether census records reflect the population of the YFZ Ranch.

“If we are going to have taxation, then we ought to have representation,” Willie Jessop said.

Is Willie saying he also lives at the ranch?

[walton]

Hello all!

A friend told me you were over here posting, and paying attention to the FLDS abuse cases in Eldorado.

Thank you so much for caring about the future of human rights for Texas women and children.

k.Dee
Abuse is not a religion

A very warm welcome K.Dee

Is there anything I can do from here to help?

[walton]

I wonder if the court knows this?

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/2009...ssop/#comments

check out this comment

On October 27, 2009 at 5:09 pm proudtexas Said:

Says that Janet Jeffs is part of the jury panel even though she has familial ties to the people in this case.

Something tells me that they know. Something also tells me that there is a reason nothing is being said. I am just not sure what the purpose would be to keep her there.

[walton]

Ahh heck, I can't fake it. I was going to try and be cool and act like it was everyday that I get to visit with those involved in the stories.

K.Dee I am tickled pink that you showed up here. I have a zillion questions always. If I get to be too much just answer what you want, when you want. I will not be offended. I will just ask again later.:biggrin:

Are you going to be staying there for the whole thing?

Do you know the whole story behind Patricia Keate? or do you think that will come out during Warrens trial?

Do you know what Warrens brothers look like? Have you seen any of them there? Have you seen Gary Engles?

Is Flora there?

And once again a very very warm welcome.

[texski]

Hello all!

A friend told me you were over here posting, and paying attention to the FLDS abuse cases in Eldorado.

Thank you so much for caring about the future of human rights for Texas women and children.

k.Dee
Abuse is not a religion

love your siggy line. for those who have not gone to k.dees blog, it is worth the trip to see a flag from 1800s with a bare breasted woman.

[TexasBoots]

A very warm welcome K.Dee

Is there anything I can do from here to help?

Thank you, Walton!

You can let everyone possible know about the AAAP.

If you know anyone in a civic organization, which invites speakers such as Lions, Rotary, Elks etc, you can put them in touch with me so I can arrange to come speak to them about the very serious human rights abuse of polygamy, here in Texas and worldwide.

And of course, now that our paypal link is finally up an running, donations are not only welcome but desperately needed to keep me on the road doing what I do. $50 is almost a trip to Eldorado and back for me.

I have a wonderful new BOD and they are incredibly supportive. I think you will see wonderful things from the AAAP in the future.

Feel free to check out their brief bios on the new Board of Directors link at the site.

k.Dee
G-D Bless Texas!

www.TripleAP.org
www.TripleAP.Blogspot.com
Abuse is not a religion: http://tripleap.tumblr.com

Abuse is not a religion

[TexasBoots]

Ahh heck, I can't fake it. I was going to try and be cool and act like it was everyday that I get to visit with those involved in the stories.

K.Dee I am tickled pink that you showed up here. I have a zillion questions always. If I get to be too much just answer what you want, when you want. I will not be offended. I will just ask again later.:biggrin:

Are you going to be staying there for the whole thing?

Do you know the whole story behind Patricia Keate? or do you think that will come out during Warrens trial?

Do you know what Warrens brothers look like? Have you seen any of them there? Have you seen Gary Engles?

Is Flora there?

And once again a very very warm welcome.

LOL, okay, here we go...No, I do not know the whole Patricia Keate story.

I cannot stay in Eldorado for the whole thing because I don't yet have the funds for that.

Yes, I know what his brothers look like, for sure. One of them actually made an appearance at the gates of the YFZ while I was trying to visit the cemetery. He didn't speak to me, just lurked around talking to Jim Jessop, Merrill's son who was sent to deal with me.

Flora is not here but may come down in the near future.

Yes, I know Gary Engles. He is the one who called me in my studio in Lake Havasu City in 2005, very late one night to warn me that Warren knew who I was, along with the rest of the FLDS leadership. He complimented me on the news stories on the baby cememtery in Colorado City/Hildale...and then he asked me if I owned a gun and recommended I always know who was behind me.

That's why I never took the Texas plates off my truck the whole 31/2 years I was up there.

Gary is a good guy and I respect him a lot. Too bad his bosses in Mohave County are so corrupt.

Can I breathe now? lol.

[TexasBoots]

Something tells me that they know. Something also tells me that there is a reason nothing is being said. I am just not sure what the purpose would be to keep her there.

Maybe they are waiting for her to perjure herself?

[texski]

i read in one of the reports that most of the jurors were middle aged. dont know if that is good or not, i was hoping for some young people, not really sure why.

[texski]

reading comments on the texas bluesman. someone said the defense was going to be IT DID NOT HAPPEN HERE. did the rape of the young girl happen in utah, arizona,etc???
can the state of texas prove that it happened at that texas ranch??
now that one trial is finally happening i am getting the heebee jeebees.

[juliekan]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6691777.html

FLDS trial jury gets preview of state's case


Deputy Attorney General Eric Nichols avoided the polygamy angle.

But Defense attorney Stevens said “This is not a polygamy case. He is not on trial for polygamy.” in his opening statement:laugh: I swear, these FLDS lawyers never cease to amaze me. After trying to get the term polygamy kept out of the trial (unsuccessfully), THEY BRING IT UP, not the State. Also, "The prosecutor is not going to be able to prove by circumstantial evidence, direct evidence ... because there is no evidence that Raymond Jessop assaulted (the girl) on or about Nov. 14, 2004, in Schleicher County, Texas," Stevens said.

While there appears strong evidence that the child born to the girl was fathered by Jessop, a hurdle for Nichols to clear is proving that the alleged sexual assault occurred in Texas.

The FLDS moved to Texas in 2002 but they have been known to travel back and forth frequently between here and their original community along the Arizona and Utah border.

So if they can't prove this occured in Texas, do we move straight on to prosecuting based on the Mann Act?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mann_Act

Haven't we heard in the past that the Feds may be looking at this?

I know Texski, I have very limited access to a computer right now, so I sit around and worry about what's going on during the day. At least it sounds like the state is tiptoeing around any possible landmines, by avoiding the polygamy argument, having Hispanics on jury, etc.

[juliekan]

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2009/10/rmj-trial-day-three/

No FLDS are on the jury and that did not sit well with FLDS spokesman Willie Jessop.

“We’re very disappointed that there are no FLDS on the jury,” he said. “We believe the Constitution provides for people to be judged by their peers.”

And here's a legal perspective on little willie's statement:

http://fldslegal.blogspot.com/2009/10/countering-ignorance.html

So once again, all of willie's bluster just amounts to a lot of hot air.

[juliekan]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6691777.html

FLDS trial jury gets preview of state's case


Deputy Attorney General Eric Nichols avoided the polygamy angle.

But Defense attorney Stevens said “This is not a polygamy case. He is not on trial for polygamy.” in his opening statement:laugh: I swear, these FLDS lawyers never cease to amaze me. After trying to get the term polygamy kept out of the trial (unsuccessfully), THEY BRING IT UP, not the State.

<snipped>

Just found this funny:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6689679.html

Jessop is also charged with bigamy. But because he will be tried on that charge separately, Stevens reasoned that the terms (bigamy, polygamy) should not be used during this trial.

Stevens said those terms have proved to be so prejudicial among potential jurors, that using them would be unfair to his client. He indicated me may enter an objection every time the terms are uttered. (After the court recessed for the night, Stevens declined to say whether he would make good on that promise.)

I have a vision in my head of Stevens saying “This is not a polygamy case. He is not on trial for polygamy.” Then screaming "I OBJECT!" at himself. :lol:

[juliekan]

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2009/10/juror-no-12/


Brooke, believe me, we know that you would expect an exclusion, back where you're from.

[texski]

the last i heard women in texas were emancipated and not bound to follow their husbands ideas. just because a jury member had a husband who was on the grand jury should have no bearing on the female individual. listen up utah, we are free citizens.

[Roux]

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2009/10/juror-no-12/


Brooke, believe me, we know that you would expect an exclusion, back where you're from.

Yeah Brooke (I would insert razzberry icon here but don't think we have one) where you're from!

No offense intended to anyone from Utah, but I still don't like her and I don't think she is balanced in her reporting.

[texski]

just read in the sanangelo online newspaper that the judge sent the jury home early today as one of the jurys child was suspected of having the swine flu. no parent could be expected to pay attention when wanting to be with their child.

[juliekan]

Thanks Texski and K. Dee

http://cbs11tv.com/wireapnewstx/Texas.Ranger.testifies.2.1278819.html

Trial Of Texas Polygamist Sect Man Abruptly Halted

[walton]

I have a short day today. (only 8 hours)

I will try to catch up on the news and will be back later.

I have one question you all can think about.

If a 33 year old man had sex with a underaged girl in an airplane flying over 4 states would each state have to prove that it was happening or not happening over their state?

[texski]

oh fun, just what i needed for breakfast today. i think that would be like how many angels can dance on a pin. how many lawyers would it take to answer waltons question and how many years would the arguments go on. first you have taken her over state lines so you charge him with kidnapping for sex??? one poster said somewere that the mann act could be charged for this defendent if he was found not guilty. but does that not have to come from the federal government. the silly season has hit me .

[texski]

one thing i noticed in reading texas bluesman was the statement that the DEFENCE lawyer was the one who excused all the flds ladies from the jury pool. suppose to be they did not want the state to ask them questions about the flds compound.
and then dear willy had to come up and complain about the fact that none were on the jury. too many lawyers or do they not trust willy???

[walton]

oh fun, just what i needed for breakfast today. i think that would be like how many angels can dance on a pin. how many lawyers would it take to answer waltons question and how many years would the arguments go on. first you have taken her over state lines so you charge him with kidnapping for sex??? one poster said somewere that the mann act could be charged for this defendent if he was found not guilty. but does that not have to come from the federal government. the silly season has hit me .

Sorry texski

I was reading some things on line and that was one of the arguments being brought up. What state did the offense occur?

I know in one of the Arizona/Utah trials it was talked about in detail. There was so much ta do about it that everyone got hung up where it happened more so than the fact that it did happen.

It seems as the FLDS might have hired a full time dance teacher that became a lawyer. No offense to the lawyer. His dance moves have been witnessed by this observer in other courts. lol

Maybe he doesn't know that Texas invented line dancing. :biggrin:

[walton]

News media reports that the defense got slapped down by the judge over issue of DNA experts, ruling that DNA expert could testify. Appears that defense attorneys attacked DNA expert who didn't know about case law etc. Prosecution countered that expert wasn't an attorney and didn't need to know case law. IMO sounds like defense is grasping at straws so far.

Read news article: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/oct/30/judge-will-allow-dna-expert-to-testify-in-flds/

I wish they would have included the name of the person that wrote that article. Very good article. This person has a keen eye and a way with words. :thumbup:

If Smuts was suppose to know case law then does that mean all lawyers know about DNA testing?

Who is this Mr. Hudson?

[walton]

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/

For those that are new to this story. Texasbluesman has been posting on his blog for some time now. What he/she posts is straight up. Doesn't mince words and doesn't sugar coat anything. Texasbluesman is one of the good guys.

In following the FLDS story and the YFZ rescue a person named Bill Medvecky had also started a blog. At one point Bill Medvecky posted the address and phone number to one of the Judges mentioned in the event.

Bill also posted the name of the caretaker of one of the children that was placed into foster care.

Bill also posted different entries supposedly from a minor using her real name.

Bill has some issues of his own. Texasbluesman goes into some detail at his site about Bill Medvecky.

Documents backing up what blues is saying can be found at the FLDS Texas site. http://texasflds.wordpress.com/



One of the things that had me raising an eyebrow was the fact that Rod Parker said very little about some of Bills posting. Willie has said nothing. Is there a connection? Do they know each other? Does Amen Wally know Bill?

I've read some of Bills stuff. I know Bill has read some things here. I believe our paths have crossed a few times and I know there is more to the story. Bill.....here is an invite. Why don't you tell the story?

[walton]

Sorry Brooke but the secret is out.

Brooke Adams who has been reporting about Polygamy issues way before the Texas raid has made yet another step into new technology. She can do video by phone and youtube.


http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/


Boots check out the post she made titled Water Fight.

What is your take on it?

[walton]

LOL, okay, here we go...No, I do not know the whole Patricia Keate story.

I cannot stay in Eldorado for the whole thing because I don't yet have the funds for that.

Yes, I know what his brothers look like, for sure. One of them actually made an appearance at the gates of the YFZ while I was trying to visit the cemetery. He didn't speak to me, just lurked around talking to Jim Jessop, Merrill's son who was sent to deal with me.

Flora is not here but may come down in the near future.

Yes, I know Gary Engles. He is the one who called me in my studio in Lake Havasu City in 2005, very late one night to warn me that Warren knew who I was, along with the rest of the FLDS leadership. He complimented me on the news stories on the baby cememtery in Colorado City/Hildale...and then he asked me if I owned a gun and recommended I always know who was behind me.

That's why I never took the Texas plates off my truck the whole 31/2 years I was up there.

Gary is a good guy and I respect him a lot. Too bad his bosses in Mohave County are so corrupt.

Can I breathe now? lol.

Boots I listened to your audio on Free Pass and I too wonder why no charges have been brought against the mothers/grandmothers etc. There was a local case here where the step father was molesting his step daughter and the child was placed in foster care. The step father was charged and also the mother.

Do you think that charges will be brought about later?

[texski]

Sorry texski

I was reading some things on line and that was one of the arguments being brought up. What state did the offense occur?

I know in one of the Arizona/Utah trials it was talked about in detail. There was so much ta do about it that everyone got hung up where it happened more so than the fact that it did happen.

It seems as the FLDS might have hired a full time dance teacher that became a lawyer. No offense to the lawyer. His dance moves have been witnessed by this observer in other courts. lol

Maybe he doesn't know that Texas invented line dancing. :biggrin:

the lovely line dance, cotton eyed joe, was created in texas. it is supposed to be about stepping over the piles of manure in pastures. at the end all the dances used to say, OH ****. before that became politically incorrect i think. so i think here we are in court, stepping over piles of something.

[TexasBoots]

Hey Walton,

I don't know. I think the reason they didn't bring charges was probably because they were afraid of how it would look if the carebear colored mothers had to take the stand. In other words I think the AG's office became very afraid of the pro-polygamy PR machine.

If the public ever gets the truth they will demand the women face prosecution but I'm not sure how to accomplish that when the pro-polygamy side is the one with all the money and power right now.

I am hoping that the AAAP can build enough support to take them on. They had rallies after the raid in 2008, in SLC with people carrying signs about how Texas was stealing their children. Until Texans get educated on the human rights abuse of polygamy and start standing up to the crime, insisting that law enforcement and our elected officials draw a hard line, we're probably going to see more of the same.

I can tell you that I was very well treated in Eldorado by the international media present, while all the U.S. media, such as Terri Langford from the Houston Chronicle, Michelle Roberts of the AP and Brooke were treating me like a leper and wouldn't give me the time of day.

Of course, since Michelle and Terri go on vacations with Brooke that's not surprising.

On the other hand, the London Telegraph and the French version of 60 Minutes were more than happy to hear what I had to say about the human rights abuse of polygamy.

We're either going to get it together and build a large enough base of informed people willing to fight this tooth and nail...or our great, great, great grand daughters are going to end up being some old fart's concubine.

I just can't see leaving a world like that behind for my great grand daughters, especially not here in Texas.

Ignorance is the enemy...and fluff pieces like Matthew Waller put into the San Angelo Times today will be our undoing...because everyone nods like sheeple when Willie claims they are a "self sufficient people".

Has everyone seen Raymond Jessop's son learning to "Keep Sweet" in the FLDS teaching manual? Google "Eph on the Phone". I can't believe how easy it is to find photo evidence of FLDS little boys with bashed in faces...just like the one I have of Willie's son from Cedar City...sheesh...get a clue people.

[juliekan]

News media reports that the defense got slapped down by the judge over issue of DNA experts, ruling that DNA expert could testify. Appears that defense attorneys attacked DNA expert who didn't know about case law etc. Prosecution countered that expert wasn't an attorney and didn't need to know case law. IMO sounds like defense is grasping at straws so far.

Read news article: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/oct/30/judge-will-allow-dna-expert-to-testify-in-flds/

why would Jessop be concerned about how the DNA test turned out, if he had not had sexual relations with her? am I dumbing this down too much?

[c_biscuit]

I just finished reading Escape and it was very moving. I hardly knew how prevalent polygamy still was until the raid and trials. And I really am appalled at how those in power on those states turn a blind eye and sometimes even aid the criminals.

I'm interested to see how this trial plays out and wish I knew how all these people were related. I assume Raymond is Merril's son.

It's good to have these trials so publicized to show the world what is going on in these areas. Maybe we can get more people in action.

[texski]

a short time ago the lady who wrote the book excape finally got her husband into court and he was told he had to give up his financial records, because he kept saying he had no money to give her. . to keep from having to do that he settled with her for back support and for continued support for the handicapped boy. i dont remember if the exact amount was published. we were all very happy for carolyn and admired her for keeping after him for all these years.

[texski]

texas , julie-kan and me are on pins and needles fearing some bad mistake will happen. after waiting so long for the first trial we can see boogies on every corner. happy halloween

[juliekan]

texas , julie-kan and me are on pins and needles fearing some bad mistake will happen. after waiting so long for the first trial we can see boogies on every corner. happy halloween

I'm dressing up like a 12 yo that's married to Warren Jessop!

Just kidding, but I can't think of anything scarier! :scared:

[juliekan]

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/flds-trial-report-state-v-jessop-part-ii/#comment-5875

Ya gotta read the comments on this page, start with:

On October 31, 2009 at 11:18 am ProudTexan Said: (about 1/2 down the page)

This comes shortly after, which I think i can post because it is from "the records of Warren Jeffs."

Marriages Performed by President Warren S. Jeffs

ws.J Home at R17
August 12, 2004

8:28 p.m.
Raymond Merril Jessop and Elizabeth Jeffs
For Time and All Eternity
Witnesses: Wendell Nielsen, Fredrick M Jessop

8:33 p.m.
Raymond Merril Jessop and Rhoda Jeffs
For Time and All Eternity
Witnesses: Wendell Nielsen, Fredrick M Jessop

8:37 p.m.
Raymond Merril Jessop and Janet Jeffs
For Time and All Eternity
Witnesses: Wendell Nielsen, Fredrick M Jessop

:ohmy:

(can someone tell me if I can post others comments from other blogs? I believe I read that was a no-no?)

[juliekan]

http://fldslegal.blogspot.com/2009/10/are-you-sure-you-want-to-present-****.html

here's Ron's explanation on how the DNA testing works

Saturday, October 31, 2009
Are You Sure You Want to Present the Sl** Defense?

(my asterisks)

[texski]

of the defense wants to claim the young bride was pregnant when he was married to her? that would make the father either her father or her brothers. they seem to be watched closely and could probably not have contact with any other male. how nasty can they get.

[texski]

the san angelo newspaper says while the trial was recessed that jessup told his lawyer that he had been "watching you in awe" guess he thinks all that money is well spent. i would surely like to know where it is coming from.

[texski]

i love it when they are in the news about more and more court proceedings. makes my day to know someone is watching them finally.

[TexasBoots]

Oh, believe me, they have been properly watched by Texas eyes for a while now.

And, ironically, y'know who's eyes are suddenly upon them right now?

It's not the Fed, it's women in New York.

They just think we're the cutest lil thangs...and they believe Texas women won't take crap, just like they won't.

[juliekan]

the san angelo newspaper says while the trial was recessed that jessup told his lawyer that he had been "watching you in awe" guess he thinks all that money is well spent. i would surely like to know where it is coming from.

boy, wouldn't we like to know where that $$$$$$$$$$$ is coming from!!!!

[juliekan]

Trial photos show birthing center at ranch

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=8529335&nid=148

A birthing center on the bottom floor of a log cabin-style building at a polygamist group's West Texas ranch was set up like a medical office with one distict difference: A portrait of jailed polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs hung over the delivery bed.

Jurors in the first criminal trial since Texas authorities raided the Yearning For Zion Ranch were shown 19 photos of the birthing center Monday as Texas Ranger Bart Bivens identified the items in the images.

I wonder why Walther did not allow the photo album into evidence? (per gosanangelo.com)

[juliekan]

maybe this was what was in the photo album:

Stevens did manage to get one document depicting Jessop and another woman and children thrown out after arguing it was irrelevant to the state's charge.

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_13695487?source=rss


(thanks everybody for all the info from today :))

[walton]

Trial photos show birthing center at ranch

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=8529335&nid=148

A birthing center on the bottom floor of a log cabin-style building at a polygamist group's West Texas ranch was set up like a medical office with one distict difference: A portrait of jailed polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs hung over the delivery bed.

Jurors in the first criminal trial since Texas authorities raided the Yearning For Zion Ranch were shown 19 photos of the birthing center Monday as Texas Ranger Bart Bivens identified the items in the images.

I wonder why Walther did not allow the photo album into evidence? (per gosanangelo.com)

From this link: FLDS spokesman Willie Jessop said in an interview later that the building was not constructed until sometime after 2005, though he did not know the exact date. Willie Jessop is a distant relative of the defendant, and their last name is common in the FLDS community.

"There's a lot more than one clinic out there," said Willie Jessop, who argued the photos were misleading. "They just throw everything and the kitchen sink in there."


Willie does it again. Willie said there was more than one clinic out there. Interesting. Was there more than one Doctor?

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/02/expert-testifies-99-percent-certainty-that-child/

Willie Jessop, an FLDS spokesman and sect leader, said the trial is the “ultimate example of political prosecution.”

He said the defendant is surprised at the legal system. It’s hard for him to understand that it’s not a question of right or wrong. Instead, it’s a matter of proving something against someone.

Willie Jessop added, “You can get as much justice as you can afford.”


Willie is a FLDS spokesman and sect leader?

Wonder if his faithful followers know what Willie the leader is doing with their monies from the cookie jar?

When does this man work? Does he work?

Julie I think one of the arguments in using the photo is that there was no date on the photo.

IMO they really didn't need the photo. They have the DNA.

Interesting that they say that Jessop is married to the young girl but yet they won't let the evidence be shown in court. Was he married to the girl? Does it matter?

[texski]

legally jessup is only married to his first wife. the others are just concubines. baby machines. and money makers as unmarried mothers get lots of government assistance.

[walton]

So why are they pushing it?

They don't want "polygamy" brought into the courtroom but how could it not?

[Roux]

Thank you all for the updates and links. I check every day to see what's happening, even though Willie and the gang upset me more than I can say. The FLDS evil masquerading as wholesomeness just makes me :cursing: and I hope the jurors can see the truth about this bunch.

[texski]

yes roux, the pictures of the smiling , blonds, rosy cheeked, young girls look like they live in a happy, peaceful world of loving parents. but as soon as they are old enough to breed they are handed over to just those evil men, by their mothers and fathers.
showing that bad part to the world is the purpose what we should be doing.
hooray for texas.

[SayItAgain]

Hey gang,

It's your old friend of many nics. :rolleyes:

I'm keeping an eye on the legal wranglings in Texas.

Have made my way through most of Stephen Singular's When Men Become Gods very recently. It gives some great insight into the general atmosphere in Short Creek while Warren was on the lam. It also seems to make the case that child abuse and incest were more or less the order of the day in FLDS families, and the behavior preceded Warren's rise to power.

A little bit of trivia that left me :ohmy: was at the time of his arrest, Jeffs weighed 150 lbs. -- on a 6'5" frame. And then he lost weight in jail.

[walton]

:seeya: Hey there SayitAgain good to see ya.

Stephen Singulars book was awesome!! He detailed a lot of what was/is going on. Very good book imo. Keep reading. There were things in there that I had suspected but not seen in print before. And then there were things that I hadn't heard about. :scared:

Yeah, supposedly Warren stopped eating while in jail. From what I remember though he was having someone from the outside put some monies into his candy account.

Wonder if they are still doing it?

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/03/attorneys-spar-over-evidence-in-jessop-trial/

Earlier Tuesday, lead defense attorney Mark Stevens might have cast doubt in jurors’ minds about photographic evidence, but he definitely fired up the temper of lead prosecutor Eric Nichols.

In a snit, Nichols threw some documents or copies of photos in Stevens direction. The defense attorney complained Nichols had thrown something at him, but that didn’t even earn a “Gentlemen!” from Judge Barbara Walther.



I don't know who is writing these stories from the gosanangelo but I like their style. They get a two thumbs up from me so does this "computer cop".

And further into the article: Much of that evidence was collected during the raid and, in particular, from the vault.

Valdez testified the door to the vault wasn’t just a regular door.

“It was like a bank door,” he said.

He later found out it was a Class 1 Hamilton safe door, Valdez testified. As such, it was 18 inches to two feet thick and made of steel.

Valdez crawled through the hole into the vault with a flashlight and a handgun in tow, he testified.

I know this next question is wayyyy off topic but how in the heck does one hang a door this size? Holy cow!! 18 inches to 2 feet thick and made of steel. I bet the computer cop was expecting to see Gerlado in there some place. lol

[juliekan]

Or Jimmy Hoffa? :scared:

[walton]

From the link above: FLDS spokesman Willie Jessop has said the trial is reopening old wounds at the YFZ Ranch.


Someone should tell Willie that there wouldn't be any "wounded" if they had been following the laws at the ranch or elsewhere.

For one hour I would love to talk to Willie. Pliggy if you are out there anyplace reading this tell Willie to call me.

[juliekan]

from gosanangelo.com today

“I knew that the girl being 16 years old,” Jessop could be jailed, said the document. “The associated governmental pressures against the Prophet” — Jeffs — also made going to the hospital not an option.

how much more do you need for acknowledgement of guilt, for ALL of them?

[walton]

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=8538130

Defense attorneys claimed the law required more than arranging a marriage to qualify as "rape."

Elissa Wall and her now husband sat in court and listened as defense attorney Wally Bugden told the justices Jeffs could not be guilty of rape because he didn't fit the definition of a rapist -- he didn't physically commit rape.


First Wally wanted the definition of the word Amen and now Wally is confused with the word rapist.

I vote getting Wally a dictionary for Christmas.

Doesn't fit the definition of rapist.

Wally Wally Wally what are we going to do with you? Have your team meet up with those that post on this message board and the posters here will help you figure this one out. oy

I actually kinda like Wally. He has character.

[walton]

hey there Julie doesn't it just make your mouth drop open?

[juliekan]

hey there Julie doesn't it just make your mouth drop open?

:ohmy:

yep, i don't think i'm a rocket scientist, but boy do these people stretch you to the limits!

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_13703838

A lawyer for Warren S. Jeffs on Tuesday told the Utah Supreme Court that prosecutors misapplied the law when they charged the polygamous leader with rape as an accomplice for his role in the marriage of a 14-year-old girl.

Jeffs' attorney, Walter Bugden Jr., said the state could have charged Jeffs with performing an illegal marriage, but instead decided to charge an unpopular religious figure with a serious crime that didn't fit the facts of the case.

For Jeffs to be guilty, Bugden said, he would have had to intended that non-consensual sex take place, and he did not. If there was non-consensual sex, the groom was responsible, he said.


I say keep the charges the same and ADD the charge of performing an illegal marriage.

[walton]

:ohmy:

yep, i don't think i'm a rocket scientist, but boy do these people stretch you to the limits!


Do you know what words( charges) Raymond Jessop pled not guilty to? What was he thinking? How can a person even justify a not guilty plea?

[juliekan]

Yes! I don't understand how all these attorneys keep getting retained by the FLDS, making the big bucks,('cause we know they will drag the process out forever) when so many of their arguements are totally lame.

[walton]

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/

What can I say about Blues? I don't know if Texasbluesman is a woman or if Blues is a man.

Doesn't matter.


I love Blues.

Read all of his posts but for sure check out his entry about Judge Lindberg.

:biggrin:

I believe before I turn my computer off tonight I will hook up with Dean Martin and Ricky Nelson. :biggrin:

[texski]

the young woman was supposdly in labor for 3 days with the child. papers say a nurse and a midwife were present at the time. could the state force one or both of these persons to testify???? why the leaders said that she could not be taken to a hospital because it would harm the prophet?? they would have had to been given some reason .

[LLaFren]

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_13703838

A lawyer for Warren S. Jeffs on Tuesday told the Utah Supreme Court that prosecutors misapplied the law when they charged the polygamous leader with rape as an accomplice for his role in the marriage of a 14-year-old girl.

Jeffs' attorney, Walter Bugden Jr., said the state could have charged Jeffs with performing an illegal marriage, but instead decided to charge an unpopular religious figure with a serious crime that didn't fit the facts of the case.

For Jeffs to be guilty, Bugden said, he would have had to intended that non-consensual sex take place, and he did not. If there was non-consensual sex, the groom was responsible, he said.


I say keep the charges the same and ADD the charge of performing an illegal marriage.


Hey everybody...I think I'm back :)...I finally got a laptop that works :thumbsup: and I believe I'll be able to keep up with ya'll now!

I agree Walton, add the extra charge!

[texski]

i have been reading the different papers aabout todays trial. was very impressed with the young woman named rebecca musser. married at 18 to 83 yr old rulon jeffs, then head of flds. then rebelled at being reassigned to another male like a used car, and had the guts to leave.
would really have liked to have seen her testify. one place mentioned that utah was not protecting her from flds harrassment and that texas was not pleased with that. typical of what we have seen from utah in the past
hooray to you , rebecca musser. we really hope that you have a happy life.

[walton]

Hey gang,

It's your old friend of many nics. :rolleyes:

A little bit of trivia that left me :ohmy: was at the time of his arrest, Jeffs weighed 150 lbs. -- on a 6'5" frame. And then he lost weight in jail.

SayItAgain I was thinking about your comment.

http://www.amw.com/captures/brief.cfm?id=33750 This was aired 2006
Warren Steed Jeffs
Report a Tip
Sex:Male
Race:White
Current Age:53
Height:6'3"
Weight:155 lbs.
Hair (Color, Description, Facial Hair):* Brown
Eyes: * Brown

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/aug/04/warren-jeffs-force-fed-in-arizona-jail/ This was Aug. 2009
Previous fasting and related malnourishment and dehydration resulted in Jeffs being rushed to Kingman Regional Medical Center last September. Jail Commander Bruce Brown said then that the 6-foot, 3-inch Jeffs should weigh no less than 160 pounds but that he had dropped to 144 pounds.


In 2006 they were looking for Jeffs who supposedly weighed 155-160 pounds. After they took all those phones and cash out of his pockets, shelved the red wig it brought him down to around 144 pounds.

I don't know what would be so hard about letting one camera guy and a reporter in to see him. If no one wants to go... I would do my nosey duty and volunteer for the job. Me and Trent. He'd probably smile at Trent and start crying when he'd see me. He'd know.

I think Wally and those guys are representing a name. I truly believe that Warren Jeffs is long gone. imo

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/04/former-flds-teacher-takes-stand-in-jessop-trial/

Rebecca Musser, an attractive, poised blond in her early 30s who left the sect, testified Jeffs pressured her to marry again soon after the death of her spiritual husband, who was a church leader and Jeffs’ father.

“Within one month of his father’s death, he started marrying his father’s young wives,” Musser said during a hearing out of earshot of the jury.

Then in her mid-20s, she butted heads with Jeffs because she didn’t want to remarry, she testified in the trial of Raymond Merril Jessop, 38, a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

She testified that Jeffs told her, “I will break you. I will train you to be a good wife.”

I believe it was Texski 2 years ago that called Warren horseface. Today I am thinking it should have been the back end of the horse.

Says a lot about a person that would want to marry his fathers wives. Willingly or not. I don't think anything would show up on a cat scan that would show the issues he has going on in his head but it might show some missing pieces of the working brain. jmo

[texski]

no, the back end of a horse is a nicely rounded smiley looking part.
i think of old horseface as a long, mean nasty looking thing saying the better to eat you with my dear.
laugh , it hurts too much to cry for all these young ladys.

[juliekan]

hi LLaFren and SayItAgain :seeya: glad to see you here again


http://fldslegal.blogspot.com/2009/11/its-not-that-hard-is-it.html

The hypothetical making the rounds today is that if the victim was legally married (a very big assumption!) previously she would not be a "child."

aaaahhhh these lawyers, priceless! and i do mean that literally and ironically.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/us/04polygamy.html?_r=1

In a lengthy hearing on Tuesday without the jury present, Mr. Nichols said the state intended to prove from documents kept by the church that the 16-year-old girl underwent three days of difficult labor in the clinic, but that Mr. Jeffs, in a dictated memorandum, ordered that she not be taken to a hospital because social workers might question her about her relationship with Mr. Jessop.

I cannot "bold" that enough. That just screams guilty.

[walton]

Have you ever heard of so many excuses? Even Scott Pederson didn't have this many excuses.

The Prophet told them to do it.

They didn't know that it was against the law to take a child for a bride.
They didn't know that it was against the law to take more than one wife.
They didn't know that it was against the law to claim other peoples children as our own.

And yet they hid and lied. Not once. Not twice but as many as 30 times for some. Not just at the ranch but for a lifetime for some.

I am curious. Did Warren Jeffs have any legal right to marry any one? How about Rulon? Did any of them have a legal right to marry anyone?

When those that filed for welfare assistance filled out the paperwork did they say that the father of their baby was their "spiiritual husband"? or did they lie?

When law-enforcement asked who was the baby's daddy did they say it was their spiritual husband or did they lie? When Jessop filled out his tax papers at the end of the year did he list all his spiritual wives?

What the heck is Jessops lawyer thinking? oh wait. Jessop is one of the chosen ones...Big Surprise for all. As Boots said.... they aren't in Utah anymore.

What a jolt to the system this must be. No wonder Jessop sits and watches in awe.

[walton]

Who are we talking about?

I just found this photo gallery. http://www.gosanangelo.com/photos/galleries/2009/oct/30/flds-case-continues/?partner=popular

Looks like Stevens should lighten the load a bit.
He can mix and match from any case in the law-books and something tells me that he just isn't going to find any thing in any of those books that justifies this.

With all those law-books and even Raymond Jessops carry all I was sure I had seen those little cups that they hide the pea when they play the shell game.

Boy I just bet Willie is sweating bullets. Watching the $$ flying right on by day after day. His day in court will be coming. And he will have to count on Parker. lol

[texski]

thanks for the pictures. dear willie looks rather chubby, he would make a good santa.
one story says the trial should wind up thursday. did they mean today or next thursday>>??????

[Roux]

Have you ever heard of so many excuses? Even Scott Pederson didn't have this many excuses.

The Prophet told them to do it.

They didn't know that it was against the law to take a child for a bride.
They didn't know that it was against the law to take more than one wife.
They didn't know that it was against the law to claim other peoples children as our own.

And yet they hid and lied. Not once. Not twice but as many as 30 times for some. Not just at the ranch but for a lifetime for some.

I am curious. Did Warren Jeffs have any legal right to marry any one? How about Rulon? Did any of them have a legal right to marry anyone?

When those that filed for welfare assistance filled out the paperwork did they say that the father of their baby was their "spiiritual husband"? or did they lie?

When law-enforcement asked who was the baby's daddy did they say it was their spiritual husband or did they lie? When Jessop filled out his tax papers at the end of the year did he list all his spiritual wives?

What the heck is Jessops lawyer thinking? oh wait. Jessop is one of the chosen ones...Big Surprise for all. As Boots said.... they aren't in Utah anymore.

What a jolt to the system this must be. No wonder Jessop sits and watches in awe.

Speaking of welfare assistance and tax returns, I really wish that the G-men would investigate these crimes. Also the bogus government bids that won them contracts, subsequently resulting in forced child labor. These "white collar" crimes pale in comparison to the sexual abuse but might result in bringing down more FLDS. They need to pay for the scams perpetrated against tax payers, as well as the crimes against their children.

[LLaFren]

hi LLaFren and SayItAgain :seeya: glad to see you here again


http://fldslegal.blogspot.com/2009/11/its-not-that-hard-is-it.html

The hypothetical making the rounds today is that if the victim was legally married (a very big assumption!) previously she would not be a "child."

aaaahhhh these lawyers, priceless! and i do mean that literally and ironically.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/us/04polygamy.html?_r=1

In a lengthy hearing on Tuesday without the jury present, Mr. Nichols said the state intended to prove from documents kept by the church that the 16-year-old girl underwent three days of difficult labor in the clinic, but that Mr. Jeffs, in a dictated memorandum, ordered that she not be taken to a hospital because social workers might question her about her relationship with Mr. Jessop.

I cannot "bold" that enough. That just screams guilty.

Thanks Julie...It's good to be back :)

My question would be, what would have happened, if the mother or child hadn't survived????

3 days of labor OMG, I can't even imagine that.

[walton]

http://myeldorado.net/ Today's latest

I had read somewhere that the Judge told the members of the Jury to bring an overnight bag.

I think we will know by days end. (Remember they are use to going until sometimes 7pm and later.)

If found guilty would they sentence him the same day? Or would they allow him time to get his personal and business things in order? Would they take his passport? Does he have a passport?

If he is found guilty, I hope they sentence him right away. And then I hope the next trial starts on Mon.

Would his other wives be charged of being accessory to the fact? Would they tack another charge on to Warren?

The lights are on in Texas. :smile: I am confident that those of the jury have been able to step step and kick over all the BS.

[walton]

Welcome back LLaFren

Do you think charges will be brought about to those that witnessed the whole 3 day labor thing? Wouldn't it be child endangerment? both for the new mother and unborn child?

[walton]

Speaking of welfare assistance and tax returns, I really wish that the G-men would investigate these crimes. Also the bogus government bids that won them contracts, subsequently resulting in forced child labor. These "white collar" crimes pale in comparison to the sexual abuse but might result in bringing down more FLDS. They need to pay for the scams perpetrated against tax payers, as well as the crimes against their children.


Roux I think that when they found that Bishops list they went over it and checked this name with those names in Utah. From what I understand they were not collecting assistance from Texas. But they might have been from other states.

The i's have been dotted and the t's have been crossed with that list.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13711122

A personal crisis put Mark Shurtleff's political aspirations on hold, as the attorney general abandoned his bid for the Republican nomination for U.S. Senate on Wednesday to help care for a troubled daughter.

"The Senate race has to give. My family has to come first. My daughter has to come first," Shurtleff said.


I don't much care for Shurtleff but I think this is the smartest thing he's done in the last 4-5 years I've been reading Utah news. I hope that all goes well for his family.

[mrsmcgoo]

I recently read the book "Stolen Innocence" by Elissa Wall.

It was a very good insight into the barbaric lifestyle of the FLDS.

You guys probably already read it, but if you haven't, it is well worth getting. :blushing:

[walton]

I recently read the book "Stolen Innocence" by Elissa Wall.

It was a very good insight into the barbaric lifestyle of the FLDS.

You guys probably already read it, but if you haven't, it is well worth getting. :blushing:

This was a powerful book I agree. She has more back bone than any of the men I've read about from ShortCreek.

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/05/jury-in-jessop-trial-will-hear-closing-arguments/
Standard-Times staff writer Matthew Waller contributed to this report.

When it says that staff writer Matthew contributed to the report does that mean he was the one who wrote the other articles?

Either way thank you gosanangelo!! And great articles.

A Utah marriage certificate showed Jessop was already legally wedded, Hanna testified. Jessop married Mary Musser in August 1994.

Men in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are known to take “celestial” or “spiritual” wives in addition to any legal wives they might have.

All through an afternoon and evening in August 2005, the now imprisoned Warren Jeffs was in contact with the YFZ Ranch, hearing about the difficult labor of a girl who was giving birth at the ranch, Hanna testified, reading from priesthood records. In attendance at the birth was Dr. Lloyd Barlow, a member of the sect and a resident of the ranch, and a midwife blessed with a gift to help birthing mothers.

“They were having such difficulty because they didn’t turn to the Lord,” Hanna read from priesthood records. “They turned to the doctor. But the doctor turned to the Lord.”

If they did do a cat scan on Warren they should include the NotsoGreat Dr. Barlow. jmo

[walton]

more from that link: They’ve listened to several Texas Rangers discuss seizing records, photographs and computers from the ranch. They heard one Texas Ranger’s story of crawling through a small hole to get into the Temple Annex vault. Sgt. Jesus “Jesse” Valdez, on the short and small side, seems to prove size doesn’t matter when it comes to being a larger than life Texas Ranger.


In my eyes those Texas Rangers and a few other people are easy 10 feet tall.

:patriot:

[Roux]

http://myeldorado.net/ Today's latest

I had read somewhere that the Judge told the members of the Jury to bring an overnight bag.

I think we will know by days end. (Remember they are use to going until sometimes 7pm and later.)

If found guilty would they sentence him the same day? Or would they allow him time to get his personal and business things in order? Would they take his passport? Does he have a passport?

If he is found guilty, I hope they sentence him right away. And then I hope the next trial starts on Mon.

Would his other wives be charged of being accessory to the fact? Would they tack another charge on to Warren?

The lights are on in Texas. :smile: I am confident that those of the jury have been able to step step and kick over all the BS.

Regarding the sentencing phase, I served on a jury in Montgomery County, TX about 6 months ago. After the verdict was reached in late afternoon, we immediately went to deliberations on sentencing the next morning. Guess I need a TX civics lesson 'cause I don't know if it's the same in every county. Julikan probably knows.

[walton]

http://myeldorado.net/

Holy Cow!! I just read the Eldorado. Randy has written an article that contains info concerning the case that I didn't know before.

I can't say it here. I can't copy paste anything. I want to talk about it but I can't. I mean I really want to say something. I wonder if Brooke or the Deseret News will mention it. They should mention it. But will they?

Texas SE is good about doing this the right way. Texas SE would you? Could you?


If anyone goes over there check out the photo of the kids on the front page. Has nothing to do with the FLDS or the Ranch. That is a picture!! :)

[walton]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705333369/FLDS-man-faces-more-charges.html?pg=1

Prosecutors also allege that Jessop and two other sect members engaged in illegal banking activity that caused Bank of America and Wells Fargo to terminate the accounts of the ranch's holding company. The court filing offered no details.

Jessop is legally married to Mary Musser and listed her name, along with that of his sister-in-law, Jozette Jessop, as executives at Tonto Supply Co. to get status as a women-owned business and to protect him and his brother from liability on projects sought in Mohave County, Ariz., prosecutors said.

Tonto was recently the low bidder for a contract to improve a pathway in Kingman, Ariz., said Mohave County spokesman Darryl Purcell.

Prosecutors say Jessop abandoned Mary Musser, 12 biological children, eight other wives and 10 stepchildren in 2007 for more than a year at Jeffs' instruction.



When a person stops to think about all the stuff that has gone on over just the last 10 years..... ya have to wonder what on earth were the law officials of Utah and Arizona doing? (NOT ALL but a big majority of them)

A person might not be able to sue public officials but I would think that some of these yahoo's should be doing an awful lot of time doing community service. With out pay.

[SayItAgain]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/04/former-flds-teacher-takes-stand-in-jessop-trial/

Rebecca Musser, an attractive, poised blond in her early 30s who left the sect, testified Jeffs pressured her to marry again soon after the death of her spiritual husband, who was a church leader and Jeffs’ father.

“Within one month of his father’s death, he started marrying his father’s young wives,” Musser said during a hearing out of earshot of the jury.

Then in her mid-20s, she butted heads with Jeffs because she didn’t want to remarry, she testified in the trial of Raymond Merril Jessop, 38, a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

She testified that Jeffs told her, “I will break you. I will train you to be a good wife.”

I believe it was Texski 2 years ago that called Warren horseface. Today I am thinking it should have been the back end of the horse.

Says a lot about a person that would want to marry his fathers wives. Willingly or not. I don't think anything would show up on a cat scan that would show the issues he has going on in his head but it might show some missing pieces of the working brain. jmo

BBM (Bolded By Me). This is exactly what Jeffs is all about, imo. Breaking people. And it's been his goal since he was a young man.

I think there's a special, extra-hot corner of hell reserved for people like Jeffs, who are purely evil and who carry out their evil deeds in the name of God.

Warren saw the role of FLDS prophet as a way to do evil on a massive scale. Imo, he was never pure of heart or intention. He didn't ascend to the role of prophet a good man who then became corrupted or was made insane by the power afforded him. He pursued the position precisely so he could practice his evil on a grand scale. imo

[walton]

From Randy : http://myeldorado.net/

Raymond Jessop was found guilty. He is being booked into Schleicher County Jail.

Twitter update from Brooke : http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/ She said that Raymond looked over at the six FLDS men seated and gave a slight smile.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/05/jury-in-jessop-trial-will-hear-closing-arguments/

Jessop will remain in jail until 10 a.m. Monday, when the punishment phase of the trial will be held. Jessop’s sentence will be determined by the jury. He could get two to 20 years in prison.

[walton]

BBM (Bolded By Me). This is exactly what Jeffs is all about, imo. Breaking people. And it's been his goal since he was a young man.

I think there's a special, extra-hot corner of hell reserved for people like Jeffs, who are purely evil and who carry out their evil deeds in the name of God.

Warren saw the role of FLDS prophet as a way to do evil on a massive scale. Imo, he was never pure of heart or intention. He didn't ascend to the role of prophet a good man who then became corrupted or was made insane by the power afforded him. He pursued the position precisely so he could practice his evil on a grand scale. imo

Warren learned from his father and his father before him. and on and on. jmo Warrens head has been messed up long before he took over control for his father.

What scares me more is that there were so many people involved that had a brain and they didn't do a thing to help. Who was in control of the LE and politicians? Who stuck a bug in their ears so that they quit listening to the pleas from those asking?

The Raymonds, and the Allens, and the many others can say all they want that it was what they were taught. Can't keep on excusing the excuses imo.

Sentencing will be made Monday by the jury. I am confident once again that there will be no 45 day sentences given here.



This is a very good start.

[walton]

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/ Not only are blues entries worth reading but so are the many comments made by the posters.

Ron in Houston thumbs up on the Don't mess with Texas clip from Youtube

Blues I believe we are going to see many more strange things from our moon howler.

Heck even Debater over at the Trib has it all figured out.

:patriot:

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/photos/galleries/2009/nov/05/trial-ends-guilty-verdict/5433/ Great photos.



Yup. He is handcuffed and they are leading him to jail. A Texas jail.

It really happened.

I wonder what Merril is thinking. Am I next? I shoulda, coulda, woulda done things different if I knew this could happen.

How about Willie? What he must be thinking.

And all of Raymonds wives? Children?


I know I am thinking that TEXAS and those wonderful people living there makes me proud. Makes me feel stronger. Makes me feel safer.

I know it is only time before they handcuff that big guy in picture number 5. :thumbsup:

I love Texas

[SayItAgain]

From Randy : http://myeldorado.net/

Raymond Jessop was found guilty. He is being booked into Schleicher County Jail.

Twitter update from Brooke : http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/ She said that Raymond looked over at the six FLDS men seated and gave a slight smile.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/05/jury-in-jessop-trial-will-hear-closing-arguments/

Jessop will remain in jail until 10 a.m. Monday, when the punishment phase of the trial will be held. Jessop’s sentence will be determined by the jury. He could get two to 20 years in prison.

He smiled at his crew upon hearing the guilty verdict? Grow up already. :thumbdown:

Hope they throw the book at him. Hopefully Texas is of a mind to make prisoners serve their full sentences. If this guy gets 20 years and waltzes out of prison in a few months, the FLDS will be further emboldened, imo.

I think they're just biding their time as they always have. Waiting *us* out. Figuring out how this new reality they face can be manipulated to meet their needs.

[texski]

it really really happened. i did not believe it until i saw waltons post. thank you god, thank you texas, thank you walton and all those others who have fought to keep this evil in the news so the light could shine on these cockroaches.

[juliekan]

http://www.reporternews.com/news/2009/nov/05/jessop-found-guilty-of-sexual-assault/?partner=RSS

One jury member was replaced by an alternate.

Wonder why?

[texski]

i read that the replaced jury member was the wife of the man who was the foreman of the grand jury that indicted jessup. do not know if that was the reason.
lovely morning to all, hope they sock it to him on monday.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13723262

As the jury returned to the courtroom for the verdict, one of the original 12 jurors -- a woman whose husband served as foreman of the grand jury that indicted Jessop -- wasn't among the group. An alternate juror had been substituted in the missing woman's place. Court Clerk Peggy Williams would not comment as to why the juror had been replaced.


I am sure more will come out about this on Monday or Tues. Jessops attorney's I am sure will appeal. And with all these other cases yet to be heard in Texas it will take some time before it is heard.

And rightly so.

[walton]

Does anyone here know why it seems to be so important where an assault takes place?

I know that in some of the cases heard in Arizona there was a lot of energy placed on where the crime took place. What difference does it make?

From the Trib link: "Can you guess a man into a guilty verdict?" he asked, then added that despite the state's huge mass of documents, "it is not proof of a crime."

Hudson told jurors the state "didn't bring you what you need."

"There is not one piece of evidence in that entire box, on all those computers, in that DNA [that tells you] where Raymond was" in November 2004, he said.


The ranch, Arizona, Utah, mid-air, afloat on a ship, rocket ship going to the moon doesn't change the fact that this man assaulted this young girl.

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/05/jury-in-jessop-trial-will-hear-closing-arguments/



After the verdict was read, FLDS spokesman Willie Jessop declined to comment.


And to this I say........ Good.

[Roux]

i read that the replaced jury member was the wife of the man who was the foreman of the grand jury that indicted jessup. do not know if that was the reason.
lovely morning to all, hope they sock it to him on monday.

She's the one Brooke wrote about, so Brooke's probably happy. I hate for Brooke to be happy but it is for the best. Those FLDS attorneys latch on to anything they can.

I hope the jury gives a sufficient sentence.

Willie gave no comment? Willie speechless? That must be a first!

[texski]

i think that the "awesome" lawyers told him to shut up. i thought his comments were funny and always enjoyed reading them. they showed just how messed up the minds were in these people.

[Katprint]

Does anyone here know why it seems to be so important where an assault takes place?

I know that in some of the cases heard in Arizona there was a lot of energy placed on where the crime took place. What difference does it make? <respectfully snipped>
In general, the individual state courts only have authority over crimes that occur in their geographic jurisdiction. However, jurisdiction is not an element of the crime and only needs to be proven by a preponderance i.e. more likely than not, rather than proven "beyond a reasonable doubt" like the elements of the crime. By way of example, if a murder victim's body is dumped in Nevada, that is enough to establish jurisdiction in Nevada even if the victim was a California resident and thus the murder might have happened in California or even if the victim had recently stayed in a hotel in Arizona and thus the murder might have happened in Arizona.

In this case, the prosecution presented various items of evidence (photos, a journal kept by one of defendant's wives, the victim's continued presence in Texas, etc.) that the victim and the defendant were living within the court's jurisdiction during the general time period the offense(s) were alleged to have occurred. As far as I am aware, the defense did not present any evidence that the victim and the defendant were living somewhere outside the court's jurisdiction during the relevant time period. Thus, the fairly low threshhold to establish jurisdiction was met.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[juliekan]

Thanks you, Katprint :smile:

We need to remember that these attorneys for the FLDS have made some of the DUMBEST arguments in other trials. Why should they be better now?

Now for today:

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/bloggers-reaction-to-flds-conviction/

Bloggers Reaction to FLDS Conviction (Brooke's is the funniest)

[LLaFren]

My eyes are twitching...seriously...

I am a good person, so why are my eyes going nutz?

There is so much more to come!

Thanks guys, for welcomig me back!

my eyes are still twitching...this is so NOT gonna be fun!

[walton]

Look what I found: http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/raymond-merril-jessop-trial-witness-list/



I knew it. I just knew it.


I don't know who owns the blog. So I am going to thank the blog owner and a big thanks to the posters over there.


Thank you!!

I had been working long hours and many days. I didn't see any of this until now. Stupid work. :cursing: I was doing the google dance for info on Dr. Larry Beall and found the above.

Check out Brookes blog.

[walton]

In general, the individual state courts only have authority over crimes that occur in their geographic jurisdiction. However, jurisdiction is not an element of the crime and only needs to be proven by a preponderance i.e. more likely than not, rather than proven "beyond a reasonable doubt" like the elements of the crime. By way of example, if a murder victim's body is dumped in Nevada, that is enough to establish jurisdiction in Nevada even if the victim was a California resident and thus the murder might have happened in California or even if the victim had recently stayed in a hotel in Arizona and thus the murder might have happened in Arizona.

In this case, the prosecution presented various items of evidence (photos, a journal kept by one of defendant's wives, the victim's continued presence in Texas, etc.) that the victim and the defendant were living within the court's jurisdiction during the general time period the offense(s) were alleged to have occurred. As far as I am aware, the defense did not present any evidence that the victim and the defendant were living somewhere outside the court's jurisdiction during the relevant time period. Thus, the fairly low threshhold to establish jurisdiction was met.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Thanks Katprint. If a person was tried in one state for a crime and proved later that it didn't happen in that state but another can they be tried again in the state the crime occurred?

There was a case in Arizona that has me curious.

[walton]

My eyes are twitching...seriously...

I am a good person, so why are my eyes going nutz?

There is so much more to come!

Thanks guys, for welcomig me back!

my eyes are still twitching...this is so NOT gonna be fun!

LLaFren maybe you need a little more sleep.

[Katprint]

Thanks Katprint. If a person was tried in one state for a crime and proved later that it didn't happen in that state but another can they be tried again in the state the crime occurred?

There was a case in Arizona that has me curious.
I believe the answer is yes but I am not sure I understand your question. Certainly I have seen defendants tried in state court then tried again in federal court even if they were acquitted in state court.

When you mean proved "later" do you mean a conviction at trial then newly discovered evidence being given to the appellate court? Or do you mean an acquittal at trial because the jury did not believe, more likely than not, that the crime happened within the jurisdiction of the state?

Note: All states have some sort of "long arm" statute giving the state jurisdiction over "acts causing effects" within that state, so long as it would not be "unfair" to the defendant. For example, if Lead Ingredient Breakfast Cereal company in Montana sells lead-contaminated breakfast cereal in California, that company can be sued for product liability in California. I am not sure precisely what Texas' "long arm" statute says but if I recall correctly, the birth of the 16 year old victim's child was argued as an alternate basis for jurisdiction in the event that the location where the 16 year old was impregnated was not proven with sufficient certainty.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[walton]

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy591.html
This is from 2006

Polygamist David R. Bateman, a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints sect (FLDS), was sentenced to nine months in prison for engaging in sex with a minor.

Mohave County Superior Court Judge James Chavez sentenced Bateman.

Bateman, a former school teacher, must register as a sex offender. He was taken into custody immediately after sentencing.

At the age of 44 Bateman was "spiritually sealed" to a 17-year-old girl in 2001.

Another FLDS member, Vergel Jessop, agreed to a plea bargain to avoid jail time, but will probably become a registered sex offender.

Jessop works for the parks department in Colorado City, Arizona. In 2000 Jessop was "spiritually sealed" to a 17-year-old girl.

A Mohave County grand jury indicted eight other FLDS men on identical sex-crime charges in August 2005, five cases have been resolved.

Kelly Fischer was convicted and sentenced to 45 days in jail.

Donald Barlow was acquitted because the prosecutor failed to prove the crime took place in Arizona.

Charges were dropped against Terry D. Barlow because his marriage to a minor took place in Canada.

Charges remain pending against Rodney Holm, Randy Barlow and Dale Barlow.

If people are charged and tried in the "wrong state" could these guys be charged and tried again in a different state? When it comes to assaulting kids should it matter what state it happens in?

[walton]

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:PxjICRJw41cJ:articles.latimes.com/2006/may/27/nation/na-enclave27+dale+barlow+flds+polygamy&cd=34&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a 2006

They also assigned Gary Engels, an investigator for the Mohave County attorney's office, to Colorado City. He has become a permanent presence in the town. It was Engels who put together evidence leading to the eight indictments and who organized Thursday's raid.

"I can't really say anything about it yet," Engels said after the raid.

But in interviews earlier this year, Engels acknowledged that the cases pending against the eight men could be an important test of whether justice finally had come to the desert enclave.

Whatever happens, Engels said, the eight indictments are only the beginning.

"I got eight more after that, and eight more after that," he said. "I'm just getting started."

The men facing trial all have multiple wives. Each has pleaded not guilty to the charges of sexual violations.

[walton]

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/photo/2009/11/warren-jeffs-case-utah-supreme-court/

On Nov.3 Wally and gang were in front of Utah Supreme court trying to convince them that the wrong charges were brought against Warren Jeffs.

I understand that the defendant does NOT have to be there when different things like this go on. Would have been nice though if Warren would have made a visit.

But look who is "napping" in the court sidelines.
Merril.

What the heck? He couldn't stay for the trial in Texas but he shows up in Utah for Warrens show?

And the great spokeman for the FLDS is absent for Warrens and yet present in Texas?

I will drive the busload of them to a local medical center to get them all cat-scanned.

Seems to me that these guys travel more than Britney Spears with her circus show. jmo

[LLaFren]

LLaFren maybe you need a little more sleep.

LOL, you could be right!:sleep:

[LLaFren]

Welcome back LLaFren

Do you think charges will be brought about to those that witnessed the whole 3 day labor thing? Wouldn't it be child endangerment? both for the new mother and unborn child?

I'm not sure if it would be child endangerment. What comes to mind is more of a failure to render medical assistance, wasn't a nurse and a midwife present? This would be along the lines of say an EMT being on the scene of an accident and not doing anything to help. To me it would more of a professional obligation or requirement.

[texski]

shoot, i will now be losing sleep as well before now and monday after reading waltons list of the sexual offenders who got no time. surely texas cannot, willnot do anything like this???

[TexasBoots]

For anyone interested, I have posted two new voice updates to the AAAP Tumbler news feed site: http://tripleap.tumblr.com

Just to quickly comment on some of the things here that stand out:

Gary Engles is a great guy. He can only do what his bosses tell him to do. He has never been asked to investigate any of the accidental deaths of children in Colorado City.

The 8 man indicted in Mohave County were the only ones indicted at all. Gary believed that they were the first of many, and he was wrong. Light sentencing, combined with either Mohave County's lack of genuine interest in convictions, or the county attorney's ineptitude made the first indictments the last ones, too.

Although the Mohave County machine has criticized activist Flora Jessop, claiming she is unreliable and a loose cannon, here is what they DON'T tell you...

Every single one of those indictments came as a result of Flora's own research. She handed a folder with those birth records over to the county, telling them, "Here's the evidence children are being raped".

So Mohave County can say anything they want about Flora, the truth is, without her research nothing would have ever been done.

Gary thought that because that folder was FULL of evidence that his bosses would keep going after them..and he was wrong.

Walton: Jurisdiction is a highly common defense strategy for the abusers in the FLDS. Every time one is brought to trial in Mohave County, the defense claims they can't prove the crime took place there, arguing that the event took place on the Utah side of the street.

In other words, they don't argue that they are not guilty of the crime, only that the state cannot prove it happened in their jurisdiction. Nice, huh?

Also, the jury member replaced was "outed" by Brooke Adams on her blog before the trial even began. She outright posted the name of the member of the grand jury who had indicted Mr. Jessop, therefore identifying his spouse who was seated on this jury.

Although she quickly removed the post after she had made it, the name was "out there" for the FLDS and their supporters to view. In other words, the horse was out of the barn, then she shut the door.

Perhaps Judge Walther made the decision, or perhaps the jury member identified wanted to recuse herself, hoping that would leave Mr. Jessop with less grounds for an appeal? I don't know.

What I do know is that Brooke Adams acted irresponsibly and in favor of the FLDS by doing that. Removing the post quickly was an admission of the bad behavior.

[TexasBoots]

Welcome back LLaFren

Do you think charges will be brought about to those that witnessed the whole 3 day labor thing? Wouldn't it be child endangerment? both for the new mother and unborn child?

Walton, Dr. Susan Stickevers, the vice president of the AAAP is currently filing complaints with all relevant Texas Medical Boards, against the "doctor" present, as well as the two women, one identified as a "midwife" and another identified as a "nurse", who were present as the girl struggled in labor for three days.

Neither the "midwife" nor the "nurse" were properly licensed in Texas. To top it off, neither was their "birthing center" licenced in Texas.

Having records of Warren Jeffs admitting they were refusing to seek help for the girl out of FEAR of prosecution of Raymond Jessop is a clear indication to me, that if she or the baby HAD died, they would have never reported the deaths to Schleicher County.

A reporter asked me what I think would have happened if either or both had died, and in my opinion they would have disposed of the baby somehow, and would have toted the girl's body back up to Mohave County for burial, since Arizona authorities explained to me, way back in 2005, when I started my investigation, that "there is no law in Arizona that requires human graves to be, or to remain marked".

That's why I think it is so important for the prosecution to ask the jury, "Gee, if they were afraid to seek medical assistance for the girl out of fear of prosecution, how afraid of prosecution do you think they would have been had she or the baby died"?

Dr. Stickevers has explained that once water has broken, no one should go more than 24 hours in labor, especially a young girl who isn't even finished physically developing. The risks of infection to the girl were high. The risks of damage to the baby, for cerebral palsy and death were high. The "nurse", "midwife" and "doctor" were knowingly risking their lives.


Why have they not been indicted?

Regardless, AAAP is practicing due diligence by making sure complaints are filed on ALL of them, "nurse", "midwife", "doctor" and the unlicensed "clinic".

We ain't walkin' away from this quietly.

[walton]

Texski- I think don't think we have to worry about Texas giving anyone 45 day sentences or saying "oops".

[walton]

Texas Boots I also like Gary Engles and I respect him and his work. And once again we agree on Flora. I had read how much time and dedication Flora spent on trying to do the right thing.

Some paint from top to bottom and some paint from side to side. Flora was all over painting from side to side and top to bottom. I respect her determination.

One of the reasons I keep asking about the state that the crime takes place is because I think that no matter where the person was violated it shouldn't matter. If Arizona can't prove that it happened in Arizona so what? It doesn't mean that the crime didn't take place.

That shouldn't be the sticky point of the trial imo.

They had plenty of proof in each and every one of those trials.

[walton]

Walton, Dr. Susan Stickevers, the vice president of the AAAP is currently filing complaints with all relevant Texas Medical Boards, against the "doctor" present, as well as the two women, one identified as a "midwife" and another identified as a "nurse", who were present as the girl struggled in labor for three days.

Neither the "midwife" nor the "nurse" were properly licensed in Texas. To top it off, neither was their "birthing center" licenced in Texas.

Having records of Warren Jeffs admitting they were refusing to seek help for the girl out of FEAR of prosecution of Raymond Jessop is a clear indication to me, that if she or the baby HAD died, they would have never reported the deaths to Schleicher County.

A reporter asked me what I think would have happened if either or both had died, and in my opinion they would have disposed of the baby somehow, and would have toted the girl's body back up to Mohave County for burial, since Arizona authorities explained to me, way back in 2005, when I started my investigation, that "there is no law in Arizona that requires human graves to be, or to remain marked".

That's why I think it is so important for the prosecution to ask the jury, "Gee, if they were afraid to seek medical assistance for the girl out of fear of prosecution, how afraid of prosecution do you think they would have been had she or the baby died"?

Dr. Stickevers has explained that once water has broken, no one should go more than 24 hours in labor, especially a young girl who isn't even finished physically developing. The risks of infection to the girl were high. The risks of damage to the baby, for cerebral palsy and death were high. The "nurse", "midwife" and "doctor" were knowingly risking their lives.


Why have they not been indicted?

Regardless, AAAP is practicing due diligence by making sure complaints are filed on ALL of them, "nurse", "midwife", "doctor" and the unlicensed "clinic".

We ain't walkin' away from this quietly.

If I remember correctly Gary did look into the Baby Grave issue and I got the impression that the issue was still being investigated.

I also remember seeing on your site that the amount of names including the dates and questionable deaths. Aren't they still investigating?

I think even if the graves themselves don't have markers the deaths have to be recorded somewhere. And of course those graves have to be recorded somewhere with the county so they don't "double up".


What do you know about Dr. Larry Beall? The guy who is going to testify on Monday?

[walton]

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/raymond-merril-jessop-trial-witness-list/

Read the comments. Why hasn't this made headline news?

[walton]

Texas Boots I had gone to your main site during the trial and couldn't see anything concerning updates etc. Is there a spot at the site that gives the feeds?

Texski you have to check it out. She has a clip of Mike Watkiss talking about the guilty verdict and Raymond Jessop being hauled away.
They really did do it.

There was even a spot where Flora spoke out. Some can't take Flora's direct approach but I understand what she is saying. And quite frankly I agree. Why aren't the mothers being charged?

I thought that since they took the Polygamy files link off the internet that they were not going to share.

:smile:

Texas Boots thank you for sharing.

[Katprint]

<respectfully snipped> If people are charged and tried in the "wrong state" could these guys be charged and tried again in a different state? When it comes to assaulting kids should it matter what state it happens in?
It is the "and tried" part that I have trouble with. If people are merely charged in the wrong state and those charges are dropped then the correct state can charge them without any "double jeopardy" violation.

One reason why it matters "what state it happens in" is because different states have different ages of consent and different rules concerning who can marry whom. If a 14 year old enters into a lawful marriage in a state that permits such marriages, that lawful marriage is not nullified by traveling to/through a state that would not have permitted the marriage. If two first cousins lawfully marry in a state that permits marriages between blood relatives of that degree, that lawful marriage is not nullified by traveling to/through a state that would not have permitted the marriage.

Additionally, a man who lawfully marries multiple wives in a country that permits such marriages remains lawfully married to those wives even if the family immigrants to a country like the United States that would not have permitted the marriages. I have often wondered, if having multiple wives is SO CRITICALLY IMPORTANT to the FLDS faith then why don't they travel to a country where it would be legal to do so and get married there? Like the popular destination weddings that are so fashionable these days? Then, their legal wives would still be their legal wives when they returned home.

President Barak Obama's african father was a polygamist, and nobody cares. It would be nice if the FLDS would admit that the reason for their ongoing "persecution" really has nothing to do with their religious beliefs concerning polygamy but rather concerns their criminal sexual exploitation of minors. If all of their multiple spiritual wives were over the age of consent, nobody would care who was sleeping with whom.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[TexasBoots]

Texas Boots I had gone to your main site during the trial and couldn't see anything concerning updates etc. Is there a spot at the site that gives the feeds?

Texski you have to check it out. She has a clip of Mike Watkiss talking about the guilty verdict and Raymond Jessop being hauled away.
They really did do it.

There was even a spot where Flora spoke out. Some can't take Flora's direct approach but I understand what she is saying. And quite frankly I agree. Why aren't the mothers being charged?

I thought that since they took the Polygamy files link off the internet that they were not going to share.

:smile:

Texas Boots thank you for sharing.

They still aren't real hip on the "sharing" thing, and I expect the link will probably only work for a while...maybe until they are loaded onto YouTube?

Until then, I will beg for forgiveness if anyone has a problem.

Until we get the website updated you have to visit the Tumblr site directly. I am hoping to have a link installed on the "News" page, soon. My new BOD is an awesome thing to watch.

Please feel free to contact me at any time. Please note that I do not EVER answer calls, which show up as "Unknown Number". So, if you have caller ID blocked I'd strongly suggest leaving a message with a return number. If someone is going to threaten me, I'm going to have a number to give the authorities, for sure.

K. Dee Ignatin
Executive Director
Americans Against Abuses of Polygamy
TripleAP@gmail.com
www.TripleAP.org
www.tripleap.blogspot.com
Cell: 928-897-9335
Abuse is not a religion: http://tripleap.tumblr.com

[LLaFren]

It took me forever to find this thread tonight :)

Gonna take Waltons advice and head to bed early tonight.

Thanks for updates!

[TexasBoots]

If I remember correctly Gary did look into the Baby Grave issue and I got the impression that the issue was still being investigated.

I also remember seeing on your site that the amount of names including the dates and questionable deaths. Aren't they still investigating?

I think even if the graves themselves don't have markers the deaths have to be recorded somewhere. And of course those graves have to be recorded somewhere with the county so they don't "double up".


What do you know about Dr. Larry Beall? The guy who is going to testify on Monday?

No, accorsding to Tom Sheahan "We've looked into it and there's nothing to any of that'.

No, the only thing that resulted from having the cemetery 'looked at' was that the FLDS ran around poking more tin markers into the ground, both on the adult and baby cemeteries. Obviously that was a good enough "investigation" for Mohave County.

Never mind that some people being listed as being buried in completely different counties suddenly showed up being buried there...I guess they were just visiting those other cemeteries for a while?

I don't have a bad word to say about Gary. Like he told me, "I can only investigate what they tell me to".

His boss, Tom Sheahan.....what can I say? from my own personal experience-I think he is a corrupt POS.

Why else would he have allowed Warren Jeffs to have a laptop in his jail cell while Schleicher County was convening its first grand jury here in Texas until I caught them at it?

[walton]

Katprint

When these guys went to court they knew they had taken a "child" to be their "spiritual bride" and some of them even knew that they were related.

One guy married his wifes daughter. His step daughter. The poor girl when going before the Judge during sentencing was not only asking for a lighter sentence for her husband but her step-father who was also her husband. If that didn't speak volumes of emotional abuse nothing would ever sink into that thick Judges head.

I understand about the legal age differing from state to state. I guess I was just hoping that the whole thing could be done over. One guy got 3 years probation. I never did see his name on any registry.

Another guy got 45 days. 45 days. Slap in the face for anyone thinking about trying to leave. jmo

Polygamy is rarely ever about consenting adults imo.

[walton]

No, accorsding to Tom Sheahan "We've looked into it and there's nothing to any of that'.

No, the only thing that resulted from having the cemetery 'looked at' was that the FLDS ran around poking more tin markers into the ground, both on the adult and baby cemeteries. Obviously that was a good enough "investigation" for Mohave County.

Never mind that some people being listed as being buried in completely different counties suddenly showed up being buried there...I guess they were just visiting those other cemeteries for a while?

I don't have a bad word to say about Gary. Like he told me, "I can only investigate what they tell me to".

His boss, Tom Sheahan.....what can I say? from my own personal experience-I think he is a corrupt POS.

Why else would he have allowed Warren Jeffs to have a laptop in his jail cell while Schleicher County was convening its first grand jury here in Texas until I caught them at it?

I understand what Gary Engles meant by investigating what he is told to investigate but something tells me, he has one of those lock and load type memory. He is storing things for later. Not a bad thing actually it is a good thing.

I bet I googled for weeks after I saw that list on your site. I went every which way and if I did that I know that they did that. With some of the things I learned from that list, they had to have learned more and much faster than an old lady just being nosey. ( The old nosey lady being me.)

I knew about the lap top. I also saw that piece of info slip and slide every which way but the right way. I think that will come out in the wash as will many other things. But man is it tough waiting for the day.

Did I already ask you if you know or heard of a Patricia Keate?

[walton]

TexasBoots

What are you talking about when you say you got a new BOD ? I am almost afraid to ask but I have this tendency to ask questions even when I shouldn't.

I watched your site for some time. I wanted to make sure that you weren't hooked up with BillM. I never say anything about BillM that I haven't already said to him but the guy scares me. I've seen sinking ships before and I don't want to be around when that one does.

I did call you. Left a message. This was months ago. Then I called Busters office. Told the lady to tell Buster I said thanks left my name and number. I figured you guys were busy.

I'll try to call again.

[walton]

It took me forever to find this thread tonight :)

Gonna take Waltons advice and head to bed early tonight.

Thanks for updates!

:smile: Been there and have done that so many times. I swear that my job had me on a test program to see how an old lady does under stress, sleep deprivation and the determination to continue on with this story.

I have to admit.... I made it but I wonder how some days.

I thought my brain was going into the rebooting mode.

[juliekan]

:ohmy::ohmy::ohmy:

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/a-call-for-an-attack-on-the-legal-system/#comments

“P.S. It’s too bad Hasan didn’t shoot up Barbie’s court instead of Fort Hood.”

[TexasBoots]

TexasBoots

What are you talking about when you say you got a new BOD ? I am almost afraid to ask but I have this tendency to ask questions even when I shouldn't.

I watched your site for some time. I wanted to make sure that you weren't hooked up with BillM. I never say anything about BillM that I haven't already said to him but the guy scares me. I've seen sinking ships before and I don't want to be around when that one does.

I did call you. Left a message. This was months ago. Then I called Busters office. Told the lady to tell Buster I said thanks left my name and number. I figured you guys were busy.

I'll try to call again.

BOD= Board of Directors, sorry for the confusion....I'm almost 45, so it's not like I couldn't use a new BOD, lol.

Me? "Hooked up" with BILLM...are you serious? Why on earth would I "hook up" with someone so visciously pro-polygamy like that? :::shivers:::

If he has ever posted on my blog, he must have done it anon, because I've never seen him have the nerve to show up there...unless maybe I've just forgotten it, which in his case I could definitely see wanting to....although Duane the troll is a frequent visitor.

Wow, I'm sorry about the missed message. The only thing I can think of is if maybe it was in June, when Flora and I were on the road so much? Even then I was pretty good about returning calls. But heck, 5,000 miles of Texas road in so short a time could fry anyone's mind.

If I don't answer, leave a message with a number and I will definitely get back to you this time around.

k.Dee

[walton]

:ohmy::ohmy:

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/2009/11/06/a-call-for-an-attack-on-the-legal-system/#comments

“P.S. It’s too bad Hasan didn’t shoot up Barbie’s court instead of Fort Hood.”

I know Juliekan. I was shocked when BillM posted some of the things at the very beginning. The Judges address, phone number, the names of some of the foster parents and supposedly the writings of an underage girl that he claims was being abused by her attorney.

And then there is the editing of the posters posts. :cursing: If anyone knows Bill they might want to throw the net over him before he goes out into the street butt naked.

BillM and some of the posters are like a snowglobe. The thinking process is all over the globe and nothing ever on track. Scary.

I am curious if anyone practicing law in Utah knew of BillM prior to the raid. Just one of those things that keeps floating around in my little globe.

[walton]

BOD= Board of Directors, sorry for the confusion....I'm almost 45, so it's not like I couldn't use a new BOD, lol.

Me? "Hooked up" with BILLM...are you serious? Why on earth would I "hook up" with someone so visciously pro-polygamy like that? :::shivers:::

If he has ever posted on my blog, he must have done it anon, because I've never seen him have the nerve to show up there...unless maybe I've just forgotten it, which in his case I could definitely see wanting to....although Duane the troll is a frequent visitor.

Wow, I'm sorry about the missed message. The only thing I can think of is if maybe it was in June, when Flora and I were on the road so much? Even then I was pretty good about returning calls. But heck, 5,000 miles of Texas road in so short a time could fry anyone's mind.

If I don't answer, leave a message with a number and I will definitely get back to you this time around.

k.Dee

I don't mean hooked up as in couple. I was just being super careful not to get sucked into BillM's world or the world of having my IP addy show up on one of Warrens computer techs.

By the way, where are those Allred boys anyway?

It isn't like I have a lot of secrets and most of those I'd tell just to keep talking. ( Just kidding) but I don't want Willie or BillM knowing who I am or where I am. I use to get phone calls earlier on but I don't anymore.

Had to take my computer into a tech a few times, I don't have to do that anymore either. My internet provider and the local police helped me with that problem. :biggrin:

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/07/all-eyes-still-on-jessop-for-now/
FLDS TRIAL: All eyes still on Jessop, for now
Sentencing set for Monday as 11 others await day in court

* TRISH CHOATE Standard-Times Washington Bureau


Does this mean that Trish Choate wrote this article? Does anyone understand the Standard Times Washington Bureau thing?

Hard to give credit to someone when I am not sure who the someone is.
Good article. Once again keen eye and great with the descriptions.



Things were different now. Anyone could see that.

He didn’t walk the same — not because of the new burden of a jury’s guilty verdict branding him a sex offender, but because of how the cuffs binding his hands behind him contorted his posture.

He gave a single nod and looked directly at the men, among them Willie Jessop, a well-known FLDS spokesman and leader.

Their presence was likely a show of support. Willie Jessop has said the defendant asked him to be there.

Then the moment passed, and two law-enforcement officers led Raymond Jessop to the nearby Schleicher County Jail.


With just those words and the picture that they have on the site showing Raymond being handcuffed and led away by LE is something that gives a person an inner strength. At least for me it does.


Lots more at the link.

[juliekan]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/07/all-eyes-still-on-jessop-for-now/
FLDS TRIAL: All eyes still on Jessop, for now
Sentencing set for Monday as 11 others await day in court

* TRISH CHOATE Standard-Times Washington Bureau


Does this mean that Trish Choate wrote this article? Does anyone understand the Standard Times Washington Bureau thing?

Hard to give credit to someone when I am not sure who the someone is.
Good article. Once again keen eye and great with the descriptions.



<snipped>

Trish Choate is a reporter in Washington who used to be a reporter in Texas. She has been in Texas more than a week on business and pleasure. She can be reached at 202-408-2709 or choatet@shns.com.
http://www.timesrecordnews.com/news/2009/nov/05/monks-live-a-righteous-8212-and-sweet-8212-life/

she's had stories in the Texas papers since 6/09, at least

Trish Choate is the regional Washington correspondent for the Times Record News and its sister papers in Abilene and San Angelo. She worked at the Times Record News more than 10 years before setting out for D.C. with her two cats, a futon still in the box and tons of books. She misses Texas but is making the best of it in the nation's capital. She has a bachelor's degree and a master's degree from Midwestern State University and likes to hike wearing a 35-pound backpack for fun.

http://www.timesrecordnews.com/staff/trish-choate/

[TexasBoots]

Trish Choate had no interest in covering the AAAPs press releases or interviewing me about anything, along with the rest of the press pool who are now hanging out with Brooke Adams.

This was my favorite line :::dripping sarcasm here::: "He kept his tanned, attractive face nearly free of expression and didn’t twitch when fingers pointed at him over nine grueling days in the makeshift courtroom"

Then of course there was the going out of her way to find a legal expert to say that Bigamy charges wouldn't stand up to the test of constitutionality...and pointing out the jury and judge have the option of giving him community supervision instead of time. I guess even though it says she lives in Washington, her address must be a cave...because the SCOTUS has refused to hear a challenge to Reynolds Vs US as recently as 2007.

I think the letter to the editor I wrote is probably burning holes in his inbox, right now....from the flames coming out of my nose and ears as I wrote it...

Speaking of letter to the editor, Texas Monthly is publishing one I wrote, regarding the story they did on the YFZ children, in the December issue.

[walton]

I am looking forward to seeing your letter to Texas Monthly.

I still think the article was good. I don't understand how she could write that article if she lives in Washington. :confused:

I was thinking about the sentencing. Some members of the community are going to say he is hard working, has a family or family's to feed, blah blah blah. They will want a lighter sentence possibly probation.

I say he should be jailed.

Remember Dale Barlow? He was sentenced to 45 days. He called into his probation officer. From what I remember he was never on the sex registry. That was part of the problem in the beginning. He called his probation from a cell phone. How dumb is that?

Should it make a difference if Raymond Jessop is a hard worker? Heck no. He was a hard worker when he took that young girl as a bride. Him being a hard worker doesn't mean squat.

Is he sorry for what he did? If he is it might have happened AFTER he went to his jail cell. He stood before the court and said he was NOT GUILTY. His brain isn't working any better than Warren or his father before him.

Can sex offenders change inside those 4 walls? I'd say his chances might be better behind those 4 walls than those that kept the victim from seeing beyond her 4 walls. jmo

How much time is enough time? Never enough time. jmo

How will his wives and families support themselves? They will be just fine without ol babymaker in the picture.

I don't know what Caroline is going to share on that witness stand and I sure don't know what Dr. Beall is going to say.

But I am sure the courts will make the right decision.

[LLaFren]

I'm only on for a minute today...Helping DH wire my CJ-2A LOL

But I think in Tx he's gonna get the 20 years!

[walton]

You guys may laugh at me and that is ok. I am laughing at me.

I've been following this for what seems forever. I wanted to go to Texas but my job keeps me from living any kind of a normal life. I know Waa Waa

But I just was over at Brookes and she shared some video she had taken while in Eldorado.

It made me smile.

Saw the courthouse, Raymond Jessop, JoJo's, a cotton field, the town from one end to another and KathyM. If anyone reads Trents blog you would soon find out that Trent is serious about food. I believe JoJo's and the BBQ place has been mentioned at the very least a half dozen times.

I enjoyed the tour. :biggrin:

Instead of all that wind noise she should pipe in the song Cabdriver from the Mills Brothers. lol

[TexasBoots]

I think I told you before when you asked but no, I don't know anything about Patricia Keate. I googled her name and found bupkis, too.

What's up with her?

I'm way too close to this stuff to "enjoy" anything Brooke or Trish or Terri Langford or Michelle Roberts put out there.

Brooke is in the sack with the FLDS and the rest of them have become her boot lickin' toadies as far as I can tell....going on vacations with her and eating BBQ and fish tacos, while she tweets meaningless blither about "the plural life"...gag.

But if I didn't have some strong opinions I wouldn't ever have come back home to do what I do.

I have to say sitting with Pam Black while she explained that they dumped her new stillborn son into a trash bag with her afterbirth and were headed out to the back yard of that Hildale "clinic" to bury him, like a dog...well, yeah, I guess I just take things like that to heart too deeply for some people's tastes.

Don't fool yourself about the cemetery list. Mohave County has had it for years and they aren't EVER going to investigate any of those children's deaths. Just like they are going to wait another 50 years before they try to do anything about little girls up there being raped and molested.

Ask Kathy Jo Nicholson if she believes anyone up there is ever really going to investigate the weird death of her brother...who was about to start talking...

Ask Flora if anyone ever really tried to find her sister Ruby...

Ask Kathleen Mackert why Mohave County has "no record" of her ever filing an abuse complaint on her father...

I have a little song and it goes like this...

Corruption
Corruption
Corruption

People may be tired of hearing it, but I'm gonna keep on singing.

Hey, Mr. Jessop, WELCOME TO TEXAS---LET'S RODEO!

Drop and gimme twenty you pos...can't wait for you to meet your new 'spiritual cell mate', named Bubba.

[LLaFren]

What time do the hearings start today?

[walton]

I am not sure of the time but I do know that they will be hearing from Carolyn which will mean some objections form Jessops lawyers.

Dr. Beall will talk about the impact living the life of Polygamy.

I am sure there will be those that talk about what a great contractor Raymond Jessop is and how hard he works. Blah Blah Blah Thing is none of his customers or employers have to sleep with him.

[texski]

he may not have enticed customers to sleep with him, but i remember reading that at one time , they were short of women and sent some of the best men out to troll for recruits. i dont think they got too many as that is when they started marrying younger and younger women. they also got wifes and stepdaughters by taking over other mens families when the men were thrown out.

[SayItAgain]

TexasBoots,

I'm at a loss to understand why Mohave County, which is in Arizona and not Utah, is so unwilling to enforce the laws of the land.

I get Utah's historical reticence (I don't approve, mind you, but I get it) to punish its fundamentalist law breakers, but I really don't understand why AZ hasn't been more aggressive.

I wonder if it's the sort of wild west, live-and-let-live mentality I've noticed in both Nevada (where I've lived for 20+ years) and Arizona (where I lived for three)?

Any thoughts?

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/09/courtroom-mood-solemn-as-flds-sentencing-hearing/

While 51st District Judge Barbara Walther surveyed the prosecution’s evidence about the accusations Monday morning, Stevens regularly informed her of his numerous objections ranging from hearsay to violation of the constitutional right to freedom of religion.

And Walther regularly responded that she wasn’t yet granting admittance to the evidence but just examining it, suggesting Stevens was jumping the gun.

She was also pushing to complete the punishment phase.

Hoping to get more time to round up defense witnesses, Stevens told the judge, “We don’t have any witnesses available today.”


:confused: Today was the day Mac. She should give him what for and proceed. jmo

[LLaFren]

Thank you!

[walton]

http://myeldorado.net/

The jurors also heard from an FBI agent. And, the prosecution described how Raymond Jessop was on the YFZ Ranch and participated in shielding fugitive FLDS prophet Warren Jeffs from the authorities while he was on the FBI Ten Most Wanted List.

more at the link (Watch for updates) Thanks Randy and Kathys for this service.

[walton]

What I don't understand is that even Raymond Jessops attorney's had to have thought that he would have been found guilty.

If he didn't think he would be found guilty, Once that was said and done why would you stall for witnesses?

I kinda think he was pushing his luck with this. Who is he waiting for?

Does anyone know if Raymonds mother attended any of the court hearing? Which one is his mother?


You can learn more about the Dr. Smith here on the Open discussion thread: http://texasflds.wordpress.com/

lol

[walton]

Texas-SE if your out there I am thinking about you. And if you are out there you should be in here. Miss ya.

Put your hat and boots on and finish what you were doing. :smile:

[TexasBoots]

TexasBoots,

I'm at a loss to understand why Mohave County, which is in Arizona and not Utah, is so unwilling to enforce the laws of the land.

I get Utah's historical reticence (I don't approve, mind you, but I get it) to punish its fundamentalist law breakers, but I really don't understand why AZ hasn't been more aggressive.

I wonder if it's the sort of wild west, live-and-let-live mentality I've noticed in both Nevada (where I've lived for 20+ years) and Arizona (where I lived for three)?

Any thoughts?

Oh, I have thoughts alright:

1. Huge mainstream [sympathetic] LDS population in AZ

2. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Mohave County regularly awards million dollar contracts for county projects to FLDS owned businesses.

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/09/courtroom-mood-solemn-as-flds-sentencing-hearing/

Rebecca Musser testified after Jessop, authenticating various documents that listed various marriages and children from them.

She also authenticated a picture of her in a group of dozens of women in white dresses with a man in a black suit in the center, whom she identified as Rulan Jeffs, father of Warren Jeffs. An FBI agent testified that Warren Jeffs, a prophet of the FLDS community, was on the FBI’s Most Wanted list.

“These are all his wives,” Musser said of the picture.

Musser said Rulan Jeffs had 64 wives at the time of his death.


How many of these 64 did Warren marry weeks after Rulons death?
Sick.

[SayItAgain]

Oh, I have thoughts alright:

1. Huge mainstream [sympathetic] LDS population in AZ

2. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Mohave County regularly awards million dollar contracts for county projects to FLDS owned businesses.

Well, this is just infuriating.

Given what we've learned about how women and children are treated in the FLDS and the crimes that have been committed, the mainstream LDS population should denounce the practice of polygamy with more than what appears to be lip service. They are embarrassing themselves, imo, with this say-no-while-nodding-yes routine.

And any county in any state doing business with the FLDS should be investigated. Why are FLDS bids so much more favorable than those of other contractors? Is that too difficult a question for government authorities to ask and get answered?

:cursing:

[walton]

Boots I hope you don't mind but I brought this over. There are some that haven't seen it.

http://tripleap.org/child_deaths How Safe is Polygamy for Children?

Click to see a nine page, alphabetical list of every body, infant through adult, currently buried in Colorado City, Arizona, home of the FLDS, through 2004. Flora Jessop compiled this list, in her continuing quest to have the children’s deaths of Colorado City investigated.

Highlighted in yellow are the bodies of infants and children, with the age and purported cause of death of each child.

Like the CDC, I counted anyone 19 years of age or younger as a child.

After doing so, it was clear that Colorado City, Arizona was a tiny city, with a consistent yearly death rate of 50% children or more, almost every year.

:sad:

[SayItAgain]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/09/courtroom-mood-solemn-as-flds-sentencing-hearing/

Rebecca Musser testified after Jessop, authenticating various documents that listed various marriages and children from them.

She also authenticated a picture of her in a group of dozens of women in white dresses with a man in a black suit in the center, whom she identified as Rulan Jeffs, father of Warren Jeffs. An FBI agent testified that Warren Jeffs, a prophet of the FLDS community, was on the FBI’s Most Wanted list.

“These are all his wives,” Musser said of the picture.

Musser said Rulan Jeffs had 64 wives at the time of his death.


How many of these 64 did Warren marry weeks after Rulons death?
Sick.

Sick and unprecedented, according to Singular.

Warren was ushering in a new day in the FLDS. That's the inherent danger of a single "prophet" shepherding his "flock." Even if the prophet is proving to be as corrupt and power hungry as Jeffs, the structure is such that the flock simply follows his lead without question.

Scary.

[SayItAgain]

Boots I hope you don't mind but I brought this over. There are some that haven't seen it.

http://tripleap.org/child_deaths How Safe is Polygamy for Children?

Click to see a nine page, alphabetical list of every body, infant through adult, currently buried in Colorado City, Arizona, home of the FLDS, through 2004. Flora Jessop compiled this list, in her continuing quest to have the children’s deaths of Colorado City investigated.

Highlighted in yellow are the bodies of infants and children, with the age and purported cause of death of each child.

Like the CDC, I counted anyone 19 years of age or younger as a child.

After doing so, it was clear that Colorado City, Arizona was a tiny city, with a consistent yearly death rate of 50% children or more, almost every year.

:sad:

Good GOD that's upsetting. :mad:

[walton]

Very Scary.

And even though Warren is supposedly sitting in jail he has those in place that monitor and control those that continue to follow the "work".

[texski]

these jessup men now in texas are the most loyal followers and commit the most money to the prophet, this is why they get the young and pretty girls .

[walton]

http://myeldorado.net/

Still going.

Is this normal for this to go on so long? Wait, I remember the Scott Pederson trial... went on for what seemed like days. I think he even had his dance teacher up on the stand.

wow

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/09/courtroom-mood-solemn-as-flds-sentencing-hearing/

“For the men who are faithful ... they took special care to make sure their daughters were placed with good priesthood men,” Musser told jurors.

The girls’ very salvation or exaltation in the afterlife depended on marrying a good priesthood man, Musser said.

She told jurors that it was a significant thing for an FLDS man to marry one of a prophet’s daughter and that Jessop had done it more than once.

Men picked to wed a prophet’s daughter “are absolutely and unconditionally” obedient to the prophet, who is the head of the church, Musser testified.

Defense attorney Mark Stevens protested that Musser’s testimony interfered with Jessop’s right to individual sentencing, among other objections.

Nichols was trying to show jurors that Jessop had a special, authoritative place among the members of the YFZ Ranch and so in the mind of the victim.

[LLaFren]

I'm reading, but not posting...thanks guys for the updates :)

I really appreciate your efforts here.

[SayItAgain]

Would love a definition of a "good priesthood man." :laugh:

[walton]

http://myeldorado.net/

Defense Offers Witnesses in Penalty Phase of Jessop Trial
Texas Ranger Nick Hanna, the prosecution's final witness, concluded his testimony this afternoon during the penalty phase of the Raymond Jessop Trial. The defense then brought in four character witnesses, including Cody Engdahl of Eldorado, Louis and Jacqueline James of Christoval, and another man from Wall, all of whom said they met Jessop when he helped build their homes. Jessop was employed by his brother Richard Jessop's construction company Texan Supply and Service.


more at link


Yup, the whole thing about an employer telling the courts what a good person someone is :confused:

What this means to me is that this person for 8 hours can build a house.

[walton]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24341780/

on this page are links to videos taken during the raid. Interesting.

[walton]

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-sentencing-for-flds-member,0,855714.story

Ben Winslow is now reporting for the KSTU Fox news. And he is in Texas reporting on this story. :biggrin: You can see some footage from the day at the link.



I first got to know Ben Winslow the reporter when he did a live broadcast during the Mark Hacking story. That guy truly ran to get interviews and scoops. Fox News in Salt Lake got a go-getter.

Go get em Ben!!

[texski]

watched the old dateline show you sent the link for. dear old willy was out speaking even then. how they found the one family with just one wife ???
i do not know why they just brought in business people for character references. local people, thought that would help???
no one from his home, the ranch, his mother, maybe. all those wifes and he could not trust one to come and say how great a husband, father, provider, etc he is.??

[LLaFren]

I couldn't watch the videos again...I have a tendency to start grinding my teeth when the "members" start talking.

[walton]

Morning you guys.

I was digging around last night looking for something about Raymond Jessops brother Richard.

From what I remember Richard had gotten kicked out, that is why Raymond got his wives. But I also remember seeing a video about the tour of the school house/ranch tour. I don't know if that is The Richard Jessop or not. But I bet that is the Richard Jessop that Raymond works for/with.

I watched as many old videos before I called it a night. Watching the women give their interviews just had me shaking my head over and over.

How could a person not notice a new bride? How could a person not notice a daughter/niece/sister/granddaughter missing?

How could a person not notice a new person sitting at the table? At worship? Helping with chores?

Raymond Jessop might be great at helping put up studs in a building but it appears to me that Raymond Jessop was playing the role of "stud".

His lawyer should gracefully take what they get and run to the nearest bank with that check Willie and Rod wrote.

Willie and Rod both deserve time in a cell across from the Bubbas of Texas. jmo

[Roux]

http://myeldorado.net/

Defense Offers Witnesses in Penalty Phase of Jessop Trial
Texas Ranger Nick Hanna, the prosecution's final witness, concluded his testimony this afternoon during the penalty phase of the Raymond Jessop Trial. The defense then brought in four character witnesses, including Cody Engdahl of Eldorado, Louis and Jacqueline James of Christoval, and another man from Wall, all of whom said they met Jessop when he helped build their homes. Jessop was employed by his brother Richard Jessop's construction company Texan Supply and Service.


more at link


Yup, the whole thing about an employer telling the courts what a good person someone is :confused:

What this means to me is that this person for 8 hours can build a house.

How many laborers in that construction company were underage little boys? It has been documented that FLDS use child labor. But that's another story.

Mojave County officials probably get kickbacks for awarding contracts. They, as well as mainstream LDS who don't condemn, should be called out. Ole Harry Reid made a couple of comments last year and it came to nothing. It is so discouraging that even after national coverage FLDS continue with their crimes. They are perverse, evil criminals with a blasphemous "religion."

Will the sentence be handed down today? I'm tired of waiting....and hoping for 20 years!

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13751256
by Brooke Adams

Jacqueline and Louis James of Christoval also had a sect-owned construction company build a home for them this summer and Jessop was part of the crew.

Louis James said that Jessop sometimes brought along several sons, who would carry two-by-fours for him and hand Jessop tools as he worked. On some hot days, Jessop would join "the kiddos" in swimming and fishing in a water hole on the James' property.

"Raymond gave me the impression he wasn't a father. He was a dad," Louis James said.


and further into the article:

One by one, prosecutor Eric Nichols had Musser verify marriage and family group records for Jessop and many of his plural wives. She also explained how Jessop would have received three of his brother's wives, including his victim.

"If a man is deemed unworthy by the prophet he can tell that man he no longer holds priesthood and be sent away," she said. "The wives and children will be reassigned . . . and become part of that household and no longer recognize their biological father."


Check out Brookes blog entries: http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/

[walton]

How many laborers in that construction company were underage little boys? It has been documented that FLDS use child labor. But that's another story.

Mojave County officials probably get kickbacks for awarding contracts. They, as well as mainstream LDS who don't condemn, should be called out. Ole Harry Reid made a couple of comments last year and it came to nothing. It is so discouraging that even after national coverage FLDS continue with their crimes. They are perverse, evil criminals with a blasphemous "religion."

Will the sentence be handed down today? I'm tired of waiting....and hoping for 20 years!


That is what I don't get Roux. Year after year. Plea after plea.
Investigation after investigation. Someone on top has to take some responsibility. There have been a whole lot of over paid people on top.

They need to clean house from the top down. Wisan could be working on paper trails forever and a day. I don't know if he will ever be able to tell all he knows. Or be able to tell it in Walton language. But I would love to know.

[Roux]

It's kinda early for me to handle Brooke but I did read. It's hilarious that she didn't like what Jason had to tell her about the stats. And probation for child sexual assault? She better recognize this is Texas, not Vermont! :laugh:

[walton]

http://myeldorado.net/

Jury Deliberating Punishment for Jessop
State prosecutors asked the jury to "Look Raymond Jessop in the eye and tell him, not here," and give him 20 years in prison after he was found guilty of sexual assault of a child.

more at the link

[walton]

http://helpthechildbrides.com/coloradocity/life1953/index.htm

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13754518
by Brooke Adams

"Where are their witnesses that would justify something like" sending Jessop to prison for 20 years, Stevens asked.

A predator who preys on little children might deserve 20 years, but not Jessop, who wasn't "hanging around school yards, preying on little children."

Four years ago, he reminded them, it was legal for a girl the age of Jessop's victim to marry with parental permission.

"What evidence did they present to you that this wasn't consensual," he asked.



It has never been "legal" for a man to take a 15 year old for his "spiritual wife". permission from parents or not.

Jessop and others don't have to "prey" for their victims. In their perfect world their "prey" is brought to them.

:cursing:

and then there is this:

"What do you think is right for Raymond, not for anyone else, for Raymond, the dad."

Interesting that Raymond once again doesn't claim fatherhood but wants the kids and the world to see him as "Dad". For him to understand the difference would take more than a 2 week parenting class. What he has taught these children is the same as his "dad" taught him and his father before him.

It is long time overdue to stop the abuse.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13756674
Polygamist sentenced to 10 years for sex assault of teen 'bride'
by Brooke Adams

Eldorado, Texas » A Schleicher County jury has sentenced FLDS member Raymond Merril Jessop to 10 years in prison for sexually assaulting a 16-year-old girl five years ago.

Jessop, 38, will remain in the county jail, where he has been held since the jury found him guilty last Thursday, until paperwork arrives from the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.

Schleicher County Sheriff David Doran said Jessop will then be transferred to San Angelo for processing and assignment to a prison "somewhere in Texas." Under Texas law, he must serve five years of his sentence before becoming eligible for parole.

[walton]

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-jury-deliberating-jessop-sentence,0,755937.story
Fox news with Ben Winslow speaking from Eldorado

"This is a case about the flesh and blood of a victim," countered assistant Texas Attorney General Eric Nichols, showing pictures of Jessop and his young wife, whom he married at 15. She gave birth to a child about a year later.

[texski]

thank you , walton, thank you, texas jury, now i can sleep in peace tonight.

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13756674

Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott issued this statement: "The jury in Schleicher County gave Raymond Merril Jessop a 10-year prison sentence for sexually assaulting a child. Despite the defendant's plea for probation, the jury recognized the seriousness of his crime and decided he deserved a decade in prison. We are grateful to the jurors for their commitment to justice."



Much respect and gratitude to those that served on the jury. It couldn't have been easy. But it was right.

[walton]

From the same link: FLDS spokesman Willie Jessop called the trial's outcome "bittersweet" and an example of a "religious war they have chosen to take out on the FLDS."

He said the conviction now allows an appeal of the state's initial investigation at the ranch, which the sect maintains was unlawful.

"We have been waiting for an ability to go to the court of appeals to show them what they did to our community," he said. "The tragic part is, yes, we have Raymond in jail. But I'll tell you, it's a bittersweet day. I'd rather have Raymond in jail than hundreds of little children locked in a coliseum or stuck in Fort Concho.

"What about the thousands of victims they've created? Where was the victim? They knew they didn't have one on April 3; they don't have one today," he said.


Willie what the heck are you thinking??? They are going to be out of money by the time they get to you. No money. No lawyers. Think Kenny Rogers Willie. You know the song.... The gambler.

Time to fold em Willie my boy. Time to fold em.

[walton]

Hey Senora- much thanks. And thank you Coldwater for everything.



Where is Texas-SE?
Where is Juliekan?
Where is bluesman?

[walton]

http://www.azfamily.com/news/national/Polygamist-to-be-sentenced-for-sexual-assault-today-69653252.html

Thanks for sharing azfamily.com and thanks to Mike Watkiss for sticking with the story.


Mike Watkiss asks a few questions as Raymond is being escorted by LE to jail.

Who are the two guys escorting Raymond? Does anyone know?

[juliekan]

http://www.azfamily.com/news/national/Polygamist-to-be-sentenced-for-sexual-assault-today-69653252.html

Thanks for sharing azfamily.com and thanks to Mike Watkiss for sticking with the story.


Mike Watkiss asks a few questions as Raymond is being escorted by LE to jail.

Who are the two guys escorting Raymond? Does anyone know?

Hi, I'm here just late:tongueside:.

Watkiss had incredible footage....

Did you see Raymond's face when he was being taken to jail? He is in shock. Those FLDS just birth 'em, raise 'em to abuse, and then they're stuck. I swear by looking at his face, they told him not to worry, they would get him off of the charges. Sacrificial lamb....

AAAARRRRRGGGGG I hope the Rangers have someone watching the other upcoming defendants, or they will *&%#$*! run for the hills, or Canada, and never been heard of again.

[Roux]

It was good to see Mike; I always enjoyed his reporting.

One down. How many more to go - I've lost track. Anyway, I've had the same thought as julikan about the upcoming defendants hiding out in Canada or Mexico.

Appeal all you want Willie. It's simply going to mean $$ going to lawyers and Raymond will still be in prison.

[walton]

Yes, it was super nice to see Mike Watkiss again.

When Raymond was found guilty they handcuffed him and led him away with LE with guns and badges.

Yesterday they let him walk without being handcuffed. I didn't notice any guns or badges on the two guys that walked with him yesterday. Who were they?

I know they were "somebody" important. But who? You know how some people casually walk from here to there? They walked with a purpose and they walked in control. If that makes any sense.

These guys would not saunter into a room. But would "enter" a room. Know what I mean?

[walton]

We should be seeing 11 more trials.

When Mike was following those guys trying to ask Raymond questions I noticed that they kept a good clip in their pace. Didn't miss a beat.

Although Raymond might have said he was at "peace" I don't think he was during that walk. An awful lot running thru his mind. He had that reality slowly sinking in look about him. jmo

Raymond Jessop was use to living in a world where it was ok to hide behind 4 walls and do what he wanted per se. He KNEW he was breaking the laws all along. He knows the difference between right and wrong and he continued to do so because it is what HE wanted.

[texski]

san angelo paper said new trial in about three weeks. also looking into a new location. no more jurors to call at the present location??? anyone read anything about who the next man to be on trial???
i would really like to see merrill jessup on the perp walk. i wonder if he is still having children and putting them on social security . anyone know about his present family?
i feel that i know more about him than the other men because of carolyns book.

[LLaFren]

Hey Walton :wave:

I have to give up the computer at night for homework for my DD :)

Great news to wake up to this morning!

Now, Who's next :thumbsup:

[walton]

Homework? Man alive I hated doing homework when I was a kid. Hated it more when my kids brought it home. God Bless those that teach! God Bless them more if they could get it so kids didn't have to do homework. :)

Here are the dates and names. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/aug/10/flds-trials-might-be-held-in-schleicher-county/

Following is the schedule for trials:
* Raymond Merril Jessop, Oct. 26, sexual abuse of a child.
* Allan Eugene Keate, Dec. 7, sexual abuse of a child.
* Michael Emack, Jan. 25, 2010, sexual abuse of a child.
* Merrill Leroy Jessop, March 8, 2010, sexual abuse of a child and bigamy.
* Lehi Barlow Jeffs, April 26, 2010, sexual abuse of a child and bigamy.
* Abram Harker Jeffs, June 7, 2010, sexual abuse of a child and bigamy.
* Keith William Dutson, July 26, 2010, sexual abuse of a child.
* Wendell Loy Nielson, Sept. 7, 2010, three counts of bigamy.
* Frederick Merril Jessop, Oct. 11, 2010, conducting an unlawful marriage ceremony involving a minor.
* Leroy Johnson Steed, Dec. 6, 2010, first-degree felony sexual assault of a child, second-degree felony bigamy, third-degree felony bigamy and third-degree felony tampering with physical evidence.

[walton]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/072908dntexpolygamistsect.fb3d661.html

This includes photos of Raymond Jessop, Michael Emack, Merril LeRoy Jessop and Lloyd Barlow.

From what I've read Allan Keate age 52 took a 15 year old for his "bride".

You can find more info at the FLDS Texas site or here: http://thehopeorg.org/news.html

Both places have documents and descriptions of what they found at the ranch


Crazy. Just plain crazy this is.

[walton]

san angelo paper said new trial in about three weeks. also looking into a new location. no more jurors to call at the present location??? anyone read anything about who the next man to be on trial???
i would really like to see merrill jessup on the perp walk. i wonder if he is still having children and putting them on social security . anyone know about his present family?
i feel that i know more about him than the other men because of carolyns book.


They should think about moving Merrils trial date up a bit. Crazy ol fool.

Bet he wishes he would have visited with Carolyn a bit more in that pick up truck when they took that drive.

[walton]

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/ Brooke just posted a couple of pictures (kinda :) sorry Brooke) identifying a couple of guys escorting Raymond Jessop.

I had it in my head that they might have been feds and we would never see or hear from Raymond again. It wasn't. They were/are local LE. If Texas has them in their system... they are in their system. :thumbsup:



Now next question- nothing to do with this trial, nothing to do with the FLDS actually it is almost nothing about nothing.

I've been reading a lot about this whole botox thing.

Think if I stand on my head my saggy chin will fall into the lip area and I could look like Angela Jolee?


j/k

:lol:

[texski]

walton i refuse to believe that you have anything sagging at all. you are much too busy keeping us all up to date and committed to the lets get the child molesters in jail.

[Casspian]

Just wanted to stop in and say I hear the good news of the conviction! I haven't stuck with all the news on the FLDS, but I am grateful to those here who have and post on it!

[walton]

Thanks Casspian. With 11 more trials to go I think we will be here a while longer.

[walton]

walton i refuse to believe that you have anything sagging at all. you are much too busy keeping us all up to date and committed to the lets get the child molesters in jail.

Nope it is true. Gravity has taken hold. :ohmy:

[walton]

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_13765390

It isn't easy standing up and voicing your opinion. But I admire those that do.

There are some places on the web that are doing polls. Normally I never participate this time I did. And after I selected from the choices I was offered I believe that I clicked the wrong button. But who would know for sure?

I believe that the Jury in Texas had a hard job to do but I think they did it well. We don't know what they saw or heard. We don't know the facial expressions that this one or that one had.

We the public heard and saw the events thru somebody else eyes and ears. I think that courtroom trials should never be behind closed doors. I think the reporters that shared the story did an excellent job but once again we saw it thru someone elses eyes.

I think the sentence that Raymond Jessop got was more than fair. I myself would like to have seen him get 10 years no probation. But that is my opinion.

When other predators were getting 45 days, 3 years probation or a slap on the wrist this sentence must seem harsh. It is not.

I believe Texas did the right thing when they received that phone call and I still think that the children were given back too early.

I am proud of Texas and I must say that with some of the photos that we received from those reporting I think there might have been some thing wrong with all the cameras.

In my eyes many of those Texans I saw were at least 10 feet tall.
:patriot:

[Roux]

I loved that comment by Greetings from NY! Some of the pro polygamy/FLDS comments made me :cursing: as usual.

My granddaughter will be 15 in Feb and the thought of her being married, spiritually or otherwise to a man in his 30's or older ...... well you know it makes a granny too sick to contemplate.

ITA Walton that trials should be open to the public. Sure wish some of the upcoming trials would be televised. People MUST realize this isn't a religious, live-and-let-live type of situation.

By the way, I don't want you to look like Angelina Jolie. IMO she is not all that and I'm sure you're more beautiful au naturale.

[walton]

Roux that is what I told the hubby. :smile:

I don't know who GreetingsFromNewYork is but dang that woman is smart.

I hate getting in the middle of blog wars and newspaper fights. What is interesting is that the Tribune has actually been quite outspoken given the locality of this subject. Look in the Desert News. After Ben left there has been very little. And surely nothing with a reporters name attached to the article.

Check this article out :http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13763480

A few years ago there was a man who was sentenced to 45 days for doing the same but in that story the mother condoned it.

Think this guy will get the same type sentence?

[lotty]

It was good to see Mike; I always enjoyed his reporting.

One down. How many more to go - I've lost track. Anyway, I've had the same thought as julikan about the upcoming defendants hiding out in Canada or Mexico.

Appeal all you want Willie. It's simply going to mean $$ going to lawyers and Raymond will still be in prison.



Ditto!!!!!!:lol: FLDS, welcome to the Real World!
Hi ev1!

[Roux]

Ditto!!!!!!:lol: FLDS, welcome to the Real World!
Hi ev1!

Hey lotty! I was just thinking about you earlier this week, wondering where you were. :seeya:

[mrsmcgoo]

:thumbsup:

Great news!! One down....many, many more to go!! :thumbsup:

[texski]

at my sewing group here in florida today i told them all about my weeks time on this computer following the polygamy trial. no one had even heard about it. one lady vaguely remember the removal of the children.
to me this is so sad, these are our fellow women americans and we are more likely to read about problems around the world than our own women being mistreated.
most know about caylee anthony, she must have been a lovely little girl, and deserves justice, but there are so many young girls right now in utah
, arizona, and now texas who are having their lives ruined and so few seem to know.
that is why walton and the in session message boards are to be commended for keeping this story in our face so that we have to pay attention.

[walton]

http://twitter.com/MikeWatkiss3TV

Mike had a cup of coffee with Willie.

:confused: Willie drinking coffee?
:confused: Willie sitting with Mike?

:confused: Mike not telling us what was said?

Dang, I hate when this happens

[walton]

I can't seem to find out much on Allan Keate. Allan Keate the mystery man.

This is all I've been able to find: http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/19/dispatch-from-flds-hearing-negotiating-each-childs-future/

CPS establised these plans without meeting the parents. The caseworker says the traveling schedule of the mother driving all over the state to see her kids made such a meeting difficult, but she plans to meet with the mother and amendments to the plan can be made. She says the father is nowhere to be found and no one can answer to where he is. His name is Allen Keate.



I don't think he is going to have it as good as Raymond Jessop.


When Allan bonded out I wonder what it listed as his occupation? What has he been doing since that day he left the jail house?

Anyone know?

[Casspian]

Thanks Casspian. With 11 more trials to go I think we will be here a while longer.

I hope this is a good omen!!! I'll be checking back in for sure!

[Roux]

Hey guys, did you hear about the horrible MO case in the news, the father & sons sexual abuse? As I was watching on the news last, I wondered if they were FLDS. Then lo and behold it said the church where they were lay ministers was a split off from LDS. I don't remember if it was on HLN, CNN or Fox.

Probably the majority of the church members had no idea about what these brutes were doing/had done, and they may be nothing like the FLDS we have come to know. All the men (perhaps except for one; I don't recall) had beards - the kind guys grow for pioneer days. It just struck me as a bit odd.

It's a disgusting case but I would like to keep up with it and know more.

[texski]

yes this is another splinter religious group. there is a thread of these boards, i got it by going to breaking news and then they send you somewhere else. check it out, lots of info and links. one of the men just arrested is from florida. i gather this happened a long time ago and the survivors of the attacks got together and went to the police.

[Roux]

yes this is another splinter religious group. there is a thread of these boards, i got it by going to breaking news and then they send you somewhere else. check it out, lots of info and links. one of the men just arrested is from florida. i gather this happened a long time ago and the survivors of the attacks got together and went to the police.

Thanks tex. I don't usually go to that thread, as child abuse & sex crimes are too much for me, but will check it out.

[Casspian]

Hey guys, did you hear about the horrible MO case in the news, the father & sons sexual abuse? As I was watching on the news last, I wondered if they were FLDS. Then lo and behold it said the church where they were lay ministers was a split off from LDS. I don't remember if it was on HLN, CNN or Fox.

Probably the majority of the church members had no idea about what these brutes were doing/had done, and they may be nothing like the FLDS we have come to know. All the men (perhaps except for one; I don't recall) had beards - the kind guys grow for pioneer days. It just struck me as a bit odd.

It's a disgusting case but I would like to keep up with it and know more.


I was just coming on here to post on this!

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/11/14/mohler.family/

[walton]

I had seen a little bit of this before I left town for the weekend.

I will check out the threads and links.

[TexasBoots]

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-flds-trial-evidence,0,7536765.story

"The mouth" is given another Utah public platform. Imagine that [insert feigned shocked expression right here]. ::sigh::

Bless their hearts, they can't help but be concerned about 'these poor people who's children we all "stole" from them, just cause of their dang religion'.

I wonder what makes all those Utahan's so sympathetic to sex assault of children, polygamy, money laundering, polygamy, human sex trafficking, polygamy, medical neglect, polygamy,denial of equal education to female children, polygamy, child abandonment, polygamy, poverty and polygamy?

Maybe, if I sit here and think real hard for a while.....

[texski]

reading a texas newspaper today that says that texas would be open to offer plea deals to the other defendents. how good a deal would have to be offered to get these men to admit anything??? probation like utah gave them?

[juliekan]

reading a texas newspaper today that says that texas would be open to offer plea deals to the other defendents. how good a deal would have to be offered to get these men to admit anything??? probation like utah gave them?

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/nov/14/new-jurors-sought-as-eldorado-tires-of-trials/?partner=popular

Daniel Benson, a Texas Tech University law professor had the following opinion:

“Each case is different. It turns on its own facts,” Benson said. “It’s not a one-size-fits-all deal, but if they have the same kind of fact pattern they might get the same kind of results.”

Benson said the state could offer plea deals to avoid the repetition of holding trials for the similar cases.

He said the defense could still object to evidence and plead guilty without ruining the chance for an appellate court to say the evidence was wrongly allowed in the trial.

“The prosecutors might reasonably think that if this is a typical case, they probably might go somewhat lower just to get the defense to plead guilty,” Benson said. “It’s kind of a protection for the defendant. They don’t have to go through all the expense and risk of a trial.”

[juliekan]

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/11/14/venue-whats-the-strategy/

Venue: What's the Strategy?

[walton]

Willie passing notes to lawyers? lol

Maybe Willie has been taking an online how to be a lawyer in 60 days type class. more lol

There is a clip at the FLDS Texas site that shows once again Willies mouth moving but nothing coming out. lots of lol

I think Raymond will have it really good compared to Keate. Wonder if he is related to Patricia Keate?

I checked the Bishops list again and the only Patricia Keate that I could see was this mans daughter aged 1 on the list.

But there is also the Patricia Keate who supposedly was married to Rulon and then Warren. She was one of the few women who was away during the raid.

[walton]

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-flds-trial-evidence,0,7536765.story

"The mouth" is given another Utah public platform. Imagine that [insert feigned shocked expression right here]. ::sigh::

Bless their hearts, they can't help but be concerned about 'these poor people who's children we all "stole" from them, just cause of their dang religion'.

I wonder what makes all those Utahan's so sympathetic to sex assault of children, polygamy, money laundering, polygamy, human sex trafficking, polygamy, medical neglect, polygamy,denial of equal education to female children, polygamy, child abandonment, polygamy, poverty and polygamy?

Maybe, if I sit here and think real hard for a while.....

I am glad to see Ben still covering the story. It was this video where Willie is yapping that there was never a victim.



Willie there were and are many victims.

[TexasBoots]

Walton,

I've been at this for five years now, and I'll admit as activists that sometime we get plain tired of the corruption in Utah and Arizona....too tired to see anything but that the public in Utah is very interested in this story, claims the LDS church has "nothing to do with polygamy" and then their "public" elects men like Mark Shurtleff to the highest law office in their land.

Then, when we raid a cult compound of their runaway rejects, they literally took to the streets of Salt Lake City to demand Texans "give the children they stole" back to those "poor people".

Excuse me for not being detached enough sometimes...because sometimes we are simply heart to bone weary from all of this nonsense.

Texas raided a sex cult and tried to protect children. The people in charge of that protection began folding like a cheap tent, as soon as "expert help" from Utah arrived, to explain the cultural sensitivity we should be treating these molesters and abusers with.

That broke our hearts. We wouldn't be in this if we weren't fighters.

The children are worth it.

[walton]

Sometimes I too get tired of all the BS. But then I think about the people that actually live this life daily, monthly yearly and generation after generation.

I had read some of their stories but it was when I heard the pain in their voices that it really sunk in and took hold.

http://bankingonheaven.com/

If they haven't given up I just don't see how we could.

Texas-SE would say that there is more coming. This didn't happen over night and we can't expect to see it get fixed over night.

I have faith in Texas. I have faith in those that are behind the scenes trying to make things right. My gut tells me to keep pushing. And push I will. I'm not giving up.


:rose:

[walton]

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/ Brooke is sharing some audio from Willie and then one from Mr. Nichols.

Interesting.

Willie was talking about getting this trial over with and then they can hit the appeals circuit. He is still stuck on the fact that the Rangers went in looking for Sarah.

He said there wasn't any victims until the day the Ranch was raided.

:scared:

He just sat thru a trial the trial of Raymond Jessop and Willie still doesn't get it. He saw Raymond being led off to jail and it just doesn't soak into Willies head that this is against the law.

Willie keeps talking about the FLDS being a peaceful group. Willie think back what the heck were you taking those gun parts up to Canada for?
:cursing:

Just one hour maybe two. or a day with Willie. or if I can't do it.... Send in Malonis.

Mr. Nicholas talked about the court system and all the efforts from a lot of departments that helped with the court case.


Thanks Brooke

[texski]

just listening to the recording of willie jessup. funny thing, he said they are being treated like theywere living in a third world country. hey, willie, imo, you have been treating your women and children like they were living in a third world country for generations.
looking forward to the next trial, three times as old as his child bride and he gave away three of his own daughters to be concubines to other old men. go get him, texas.

[texski]

i am in love with the texas bluesman and i dont even know who or what he/she is.
go there now, click on some songs for raymond jessup. great songs, and he has the links for us to play them and gloat. my favorite was in the jailhouse now. but there are more.

[walton]

i am in love with the texas bluesman and i dont even know who or what he/she is.
go there now, click on some songs for raymond jessup. great songs, and he has the links for us to play them and gloat. my favorite was in the jailhouse now. but there are more.

I really love bluesman as well texski. I enjoyed all the songs. I've got the movie dvd O Brother where art thou. Like the music and enjoyed the movie.

Wonder what Raymond is singing?

[Roux]

I really love bluesman as well texski. I enjoyed all the songs. I've got the movie dvd O Brother where art thou. Like the music and enjoyed the movie.

Wonder what Raymond is singing?

In honor of Johnny Mercer, I suggest Accentuate the Positive cuz with the sentence Tony Alamo received, Raymond should be greatful for 10 years.

[texski]

i think we are all getting a little giddy with happiness after the guilty verdict. so, we are entitled.

[walton]

http://myeldorado.net/

Randy wrote an awesome editorial. :patriot:

[walton]

In honor of Johnny Mercer, I suggest Accentuate the Positive cuz with the sentence Tony Alamo received, Raymond should be greatful for 10 years.

There was a special on tv about Johnny Mercer today. I thought of you Roux.

Sakes alive there are still a few of us with dang good taste.:biggrin:

[Roux]

There was a special on tv about Johnny Mercer today. I thought of you Roux.

Sakes alive there are still a few of us with dang good taste.:biggrin:

I recently watched a PBS program about him, that's why it was fresh in my mind. He was genius, and I love Hoagy Carmichael too.

[Casspian]

Think they'll get away with this? (I didn't see this posted, so hope I am not duplicating)

KINGMAN - The attorneys for Warren Steed Jeffs is asking a Mohave County Superior Court judge to set another court hearing to argue whether the prosecutor's witnesses are experts in religious practices.

Jeffs' attorney, Mike Piccarreta, is asking Judge Steven Conn to set a hearing to argue whether Carolyn Jessop, Richard Holm and Rebecca Musser are experts on the religious practices of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Jeffs is considered a prophet by the polygamist church in Colorado City, Ariz., and Hildale, Utah.

http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2009/11/19/news/local/local6.txt

[juliekan]

Think they'll get away with this? (I didn't see this posted, so hope I am not duplicating)



http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2009/11/19/news/local/local6.txt

http://fldslegal.blogspot.com/2009/11/im-expert-youre-expert.html

Here's one attorney's take on the situation:

"However, his argument that they aren't "experts" falls flat. Arizona's rule is similar to Texas, you must show..."(see more at site)

"The bottom line is that all three listed individuals meet the requirements under Rule 702 to be experts. The judge may not let all of them testify (could be viewed as cumulative evidence.) The judge may place some limits on what they can say (some evidence could be viewed as too prejudicial or maybe not relevant.) However, there will be at least one FLDS "expert" who testifies at the Warren Jeffs trial."

Let's hope Ron is correct. I mean, we are dealing with Judge Conn here:rolleyes:

[Roux]

http://fldslegal.blogspot.com/2009/11/im-expert-youre-expert.html

Here's one attorney's take on the situation:

"However, his argument that they aren't "experts" falls flat. Arizona's rule is similar to Texas, you must show..."(see more at site)

"The bottom line is that all three listed individuals meet the requirements under Rule 702 to be experts. The judge may not let all of them testify (could be viewed as cumulative evidence.) The judge may place some limits on what they can say (some evidence could be viewed as too prejudicial or maybe not relevant.) However, there will be at least one FLDS "expert" who testifies at the Warren Jeffs trial."

Let's hope Ron is correct. I mean, we are dealing with Judge Conn here:rolleyes:

I'd like to see an "expert" testify --- an expert on cults. :biggrin:

[walton]

Julie I'd like to see that as well.

Who is the expert that Ron is talking about? How does he know?