10/23, 10/24, 10/25

[Elle]

Haleigh Ann Marie Cummings:rose:

[Elle]

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime-Examiner~y2009m10d22-HaLeigh-Cummings-story-on-Maury-show-video
HaLeigh Cummings’ story on ‘Maury’ show (video)

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20091023/ARTICLES/910231004/1002?Title=Haleigh-Somer-s-cases-are-different
Haleigh, Somer's cases are different

[Chica]

Good Morning.

[Petal Pusher]

Good morning. I just watched the video of the Maury show, my heart aches for TN and RC. It would be such a wonderful miracle if HaLeigh was brought home to them safe and sound. I hate to be so pessimistic, but I simply don't see that happening. If Misty or anyone else knows something, I wish they would just come forward and let this nightmare end.

Prayers for HaLeigh and her family.

[Zeep]

Good morning everybody.

Watching Maury's show yesterday was heartbreaking. The pain they're living with is horrible. The "not knowing" has to be torment.

After I watched Maury, I turned to HLN to see Somer's mother speaking. She certainly is a strong woman. I feel positive LE will find Somer's killer.

[grammie/va]

Good morning. I just watched the video of the Maury show, my heart aches for TN and RC. It would be such a wonderful miracle if HaLeigh was brought home to them safe and sound. I hate to be so pessimistic, but I simply don't see that happening. If Misty or anyone else knows something, I wish they would just come forward and let this nightmare end.

Prayers for HaLeigh and her family.

I agree, and this has been a very sad week. How is this epidemic against our kids going to ever be stopped?

Now just a thought: After reading the board and other boards and other places and blogs, I am so disheartened by what I am reading. These people, are HaLeigh's family and until we have proof one of them are responsible our hands should be held against typing and degrading them. We need to FOLLOW the FACTS and let LE find out who is responsible.

[Texas48]

Good morning all..
TY Elle for starting a new thread for a new day..There are ONLY 87 candles lighting the way for little HaLeigh Ann-Marie Cummings....:wub:

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=HAMC

[Petal Pusher]

I agree, and this has been a very sad week. How is this epidemic against our kids going to ever be stopped?

Now just a thought: After reading the board and other boards and other places and blogs, I am so disheartened by what I am reading. These people, are HaLeigh's family and until we have proof one of them are responsible our hands should be held against typing and degrading them. We need to FOLLOW the FACTS and let LE find out who is responsible.

I agree with you 100%, Grammie. This is not the time to throw stones, criticize or ridicule. HaLeigh did not choose her family or the people her family members brought into the mix. She's an innocent little girl who was doing nothing wrong and has been dealt a fate she does not deserve. I just hope and pray the person/persons who know something that might could bring HaLeigh home will find it in their heart/hearts to come forward and do the right thing for HaLeigh. HaLeigh deserves the truth about what happened to her to come to light. Her family also deserves the same.

You know who you are, start talking. For Haleigh's sake, PLEASE.

[Zeus]

I'm starting to think the only one who knows what happened to HaLeigh is the person who took her. Misty would be my second choice but I don't think a 17yr old could keep her mouth shut and not tell anyone anything for this long, if she knew something.

[Texas48]

Officials searched a landfill looking for Haleigh, too...

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20091022/ARTICLES/910229903/-1/MAGAZINE?Title=Officials-searched-a-landfill-looking-for-Haleigh-too

[Texas48]

In case someone missed this article yesterday...

Haleigh's Great Grandmother Reacts to Somer Case
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=147059&catid=3#

[Zeep]

I don't want to sound like a downer, but after 8 months would they find Haleigh if she were in a landfill?

That's something you search right away. That's why LE were sucessfull in finding Somer.

[tia marie]

Officials searched a landfill looking for Haleigh, too...

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20091022/ARTICLES/910229903/-1/MAGAZINE?Title=Officials-searched-a-landfill-looking-for-Haleigh-too

Did you happen to take note of the statistic chart that was posted along side your link?

With what seems to me to be an epidemic of kidnapped and murdered children in recent years, the last study of this phenomenon was back in 2002. Here it is seven years later, and its becoming an almost daily occurance. Its shocking.

[just4justice]

This country needs to stop protecting criminals. In other countries if someone commits a sex crime against a child they would be publicly castrated or stoned to death. Inhumane? I think not. It is time a precedent is established that says if you commit a sex crime against a child you will suffer the worst possible punishment. Forget about the plea bargaining and the molly coddling and give them what they deserve. No family deserves to suffer what this family and others are going through.
I live in a nice neighborhood, a college town that is not completely crime free, but the crime rate is pretty low. Nevertheless, our elementary school which happens to be twelve houses away requires that every child be accompanied to and from school by an adult. The adults have to be listed with the school and only those on the list can pick up the children. I accompany my grandson to and from school everyday while his parents are working. This was unheard of when my children attended the school some 35 - 40 years ago. Our society is crumbling because of the failures of common sense parenting and the weakness of our criminal justice system.

[Texas48]

This case is so frustrating for all of us and IMO its that each one of us cares about HaLeigh...a little girl that we had never met..seen a picture of her and never heard her name before Feb. 10th 2009...
No matter where each of us stand on our opinions we are united for HaLeigh...
I have faifth there will be a break and little HaLeigh will be found...I hope we are all still here when that happends..

Was reading some old articles yesterday after the board took a *break*....
A statement caught my attention and I was wondering..did LE wait 9 days to conduct block searches..??? Perhaps they were doing a second search..? also the article does say that Crystal's fiance was re-questioned...

On Feb. 19, 2009, police conducted block searches in the area surrounding Haleigh's home. Equusearch continues to assist and authorities are using dogs


http://www.amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=63252

[HenLee]

I'm starting to think the only one who knows what happened to Haleigh is the person who took her. Misty would be my second choice but I don't think a 17yr old could keep her mouth shut and not tell anyone anything for this long, if she knew something. Zeus, is Misty being used as a cover up? How many SO in Putnam County are unaccounted for? How many SO in Putnam County should be wearing bracelets but are not?
WHERE IS HALEIGH?:rose:

[Texas48]

Did you happen to take note of the statistic chart that was posted along side your link?

With what seems to me to be an epidemic of kidnapped and murdered children in recent years, the last study of this phenomenon was back in 2002. Here it is seven years later, and its becoming an almost daily occurance. Its shocking.
I did *tia*...I do believe it is what you called it...EPIDEMIC.
Shocking and scary and this should NOT be happening to our children..day after day. There has to be something that can be done..just has to be.

[Texas48]

This country needs to stop protecting criminals. In other countries if someone commits a sex crime against a child they would be publicly castrated or stoned to death. Inhumane? I think not. It is time a precedent is established that says if you commit a sex crime against a child you will suffer the worst possible punishment. Forget about the plea bargaining and the molly coddling and give them what they deserve. No family deserves to suffer what this family and others are going through.
I live in a nice neighborhood, a college town that is not completely crime free, but the crime rate is pretty low. Nevertheless, our elementary school which happens to be twelve houses away requires that every child be accompanied to and from school by an adult. The adults have to be listed with the school and only those on the list can pick up the children. I accompany my grandson to and from school everyday while his parents are working. This was unheard of when my children attended the school some 35 - 40 years ago. Our society is crumbling because of the failures of common sense parenting and the weakness of our criminal justice system.Red By Me
INHUMANE is what is happening to our children...
Crumbling society......ABSOLUTELY.
JMO

[Texas48]

Zeus, is Misty being used as a cover up? How many SO in Putnam County are unaccounted for? How many SO in Putnam County should be wearing bracelets but are not?
WHERE IS HALEIGH?:rose:
I believe I read there *were* 44 RSO within 5 miles of where HaLeigh lived...I do know a RSO..K. Johns lived next door to Ron and kids and then Ron moved across the street and then moved down the street and around the corner from him...The RSO still lives there in the MH park..(last time I checked)...
I wonder HOW MANY have not been caught and labeled RSO..? Scary to *think* about ... who lives next door to you..
Sex Offenders are not just *scary looking ppl*...we all know that.
they walk in every day life as every day normal ppl with *normal* lives.
Proffesional ppl that one would NEVER think of...Sunday School *female* teachers...How in the world do parents protect their children/grandchildren??? WHAT DO WE DO as a society..?

[Zeep]

"Somer's body was discovered Wednesday in a landfill at the Chesser Island Landfill in Folkston, Ga., after investigators followed garbage trucks leaving the neighborhood where Somer was last seen Monday. And while Putnam County officials say they also pored through garbage and visited the area's landfill, their efforts turned up no sign of Haleigh." From Texas48 link.
Did LE really search any landfills? When? Why no mention of this from media, did they miss this important search? The media was live on the search of the dumpster. Would it be unreasonable to believe that had the landfilled been searched the media would have covered it. I ask again, is LE using Misty for a scapegoat in their negligence?


BBM

It definitely makes me wonder.

She would be the perfect scapegoat if you think about it. 17 years old, no family support, uneducated, no money to hire the best attorneys, the last person seen with Haleigh, history of drug use and partying...

There are days that I feel like Misty holds the key.. and there are days that I feel like she doesn't know a thing about where Haleigh is or what happened to Haleigh.

How can there be no clues when a child is taken from their home? Especially after 8 months.

Someone (as far as we know) came into that home and took Haleigh. How did they not leave some form of evidence? I just can't wrap my head around it.

[tia marie]

"Somer's body was discovered Wednesday in a landfill at the Chesser Island Landfill in Folkston, Ga., after investigators followed garbage trucks leaving the neighborhood where Somer was last seen Monday. And while Putnam County officials say they also pored through garbage and visited the area's landfill, their efforts turned up no sign of Haleigh." From Texas48 link.
Did LE really search any landfills? When? Why no mention of this from media, did they miss this important search? The media was live on the search of the dumpster. Would it be unreasonable to believe that had the landfilled been searched the media would have covered it. I ask again, is LE using Misty for a scapegoat in their negligence?

You ask an excellant question about the landfill being searched. Long ago when this case first became news, many questioned where the landfill for that county was, and was it searched. I'd still like to know the location where Putnam County unloads their trash. Is there even a landfill in that area? The question was never really answered.

[tia marie]

You ask an excellant question about the landfill being searched. Long ago when this case first became news, many questioned where the landfill for that county was, and was it searched. I'd still like to know the location where Putnam County unloads their trash. Is there even a landfill in that area? The question was never really answered.

Quoting myself.

I searched and answered my own question.

Putnam County Landfill.

http://www1.putnam-fl.com/live/faq.asp?dept=5141#

In all honestly, I never heard that PCLE sent a search team out there.

[Texas48]

From above link, "Capt. Rose said they have identified and located 44 sex offenders within a 5 mile radius of the home and most or all of them have been contacted by police." What does this mean? How many were not or could NOT be located?? Have they yet been LOCATED???BBM
We know of one that has never been found by LE...this RSO was in the area just before HaLeigh went missing....Chad Reynolds..



http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/actionlocal/story/Offender-Alert-September-16-2009/h4y9Xrt4gUqictc4PSOO5w.cspx

[Texas48]

Yep. Uh huh. But LE has cleared him... :rolleyes:

OT: Good morning sis. Saw where you wished me the same on another thread... :smile:
Yep..Uh Huh......HOW can LE *clear* someone WHEN they can't find him..? :rolleyes:.....LOL with ya RR...

[Texas48]

Quoting myself.

I searched and answered my own question.

Putnam County Landfill.

http://www1.putnam-fl.com/live/faq.asp?dept=5141#

In all honestly, I never heard that PCLE sent a search team out there.BBM
Me either Tia...and IIRC the media was covering every move that was made the first two weeks....I *think* we would have known about a search if indeed there was.....But..won't/can't say for a certainty they didn't...KWIM?

[tia marie]

As I see it--there are complexes reasons why even 'The Best' of society don't do better. 'Poor choices'--yes, we are all capable of making them--with the best intentions.

I come from a religious family--good/decent people--Southern farmers during the depression. The values were of the highest order--what worked at one time in history needs to be adapted.

Such confusion over 'What the Bible Says'--in my very home. 'Discipline'--teach your children, gently/honorably. Maybe spank them--but do not go overboard, etc. Learn and grow--but there are many reasons why people don't/can't/won't do that.

Ah, well--I grew up in the 50's/Boomer--and the best made plans of mice and men went awry.

If we could stop 'blaming' each other for a bit--maybe more could be done.
$.02

Nice post pinetree. But the bottom line in today's world is the access of the internet that spawns abominable behavior, ( ie the pedro sites), the lack of parental interest and their monitering of their childrens activities have spawned a new generation of young children who has they approach adulthood they are entitiled to whatever makes them feel good about themselves is AOK. Misty is a classic example of that mind frame IMO.

[W_D_1]

I saw a post on the ST thread yesterday that really bothered me. It basically said her mothers reaction is how the parent of a missing child is supposed to act. Seriously...who are any of us to decide how a parent should react? There is no playbook for grief for a reason...because we don't all act/react the same.

[Tracian]

I saw a post on the ST thread yesterday that really bothered me. It basically said her mothers reaction is how the parent of a missing child is supposed to act. Seriously...who are any of us to decide how a parent should react? There is no playbook for grief for a reason...because we don't all act/react the same.


Exactly. There is no 'right' way to act when going through something like this; and to be honest, I doubt that is one of the concerns of the parents of a missing child..."How should I act?"

[titanfan217]

I think I read on the ST thread that 5 SO are missing? Clay County and Putnam County are back to back, only a hour away from Palatka to orange Park. This is scary they could easily be a case connected to a SO. Why isn't Putnam County taking this more seriously. It is possible that a SO from one county could very easily snatch in the county next to it. I just want Haleigh found and PCSD seems to be blinded with Misty, they need to expand their mind. MOO

Maybe 'cause they don't think it any stranger was involved.

[panman]

I saw a post on the ST thread yesterday that really bothered me. It basically said her mothers reaction is how the parent of a missing child is supposed to act. Seriously...who are any of us to decide how a parent should react? There is no playbook for grief for a reason...because we don't all act/react the same.

IMO, very sad comment to make.

[Zeep]

Exactly. There is no 'right' way to act when going through something like this; and to be honest, I doubt that is one of the concerns of the parents of a missing child..."How should I act?"


Agree. And if the parents of a missing child are asking themselves how they should act, then they're probably the perpetrator.

I would imagine that would be the last thing on a parent's mind at a time like that.

[tia marie]

And the beat goes on in Patalak.

Seems like drugs are the business du joir down there.

Is it any wonder that no one seems to bat an eye when drug charges are filed? Apparantly drugs have become acceptable and a way of life. And the children be damned.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/21394295/detail.html

[W_D_1]

Their thinking has got them NO WHERE in almost nine months so their thinking does not impress me at all.MOO


Maybe it's time for them to put on some big boy pants and admit they may have been wrong and start seriously looking in other directions.

I'm not excusing Misty in any way because if she left the home that night she opened the door (metaphorically) for Haleigh to disappear. I think there is a strong possibility she left the kids sleeping alone at home and someone took advantage of her absence. I still think the door being propped open was so that someone could go back in after Junior but they were interuppted.

[W_D_1]

And the beat goes on in Patalak.

Seems like drugs are the business du joir down there.

Is it any wonder that no one seems to bat an eye when drug charges are filed? Apparantly drugs have become acceptable and a way of life. And the children be damned.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/21394295/detail.html



It isn't just in Palatka. I'd bet if you looked at the booking info for any city of the same size ANYWHERE else in the US you'd find just as many, if not more, arrests for drugs. A quick google just turned up busts involving a lot more plants, some in the tens of thousands, in Mass, California and North Carolina but lets pretend Putnam Co is the only place in the country where drugs exist.

[baywench]

It isn't just in Palatka. I'd bet if you looked at the booking info for any city of the same size ANYWHERE else in the US you'd find just as many, if not more, arrests for drugs. A quick google just turned up busts involving a lot more plants, some in the tens of thousands, in Mass, California and North Carolina but lets pretend Putnam Co is the only place in the country where drugs exist.


I agree. Drugs make news. I live in a tiny town and if you read the papers you would think the same thing here. Not alot of news around here so drug busts make the front page. Drugs are everywhere. jmo

[Texas48]

O/T....Missing 9 year old's body has been found...Elizabeth Olton from Mo.
POI is a juvenile that led LE to her body..

[W_D_1]

I agree. Drugs make news. I live in a tiny town and if you read the papers you would think the same thing here. Not alot of news around here so drug busts make the front page. Drugs are everywhere. jmo


Did you see the amount of SO's that lived within 5 miles of ST's home? 90!!! We thought the 44 in this case was a lot but that's more than double.

[Tracian]

O/T


Sad news, a friend to many here passed away, Maryhaze, passed on June 24th.

There is a thread in Open Court.

[baywench]

[QUOTE=W_D_1;13583802]Did you see the amount of SO's that lived within 5 miles of ST's home? 90!!! We thought the 44 in this case was a lot but that's more than double.[/QUOTE) It will be interesting to see if it is one of those around her. I have never believed it is a SO in Haleigh's case. jmo

[W_D_1]

[QUOTE=W_D_1;13583802]Did you see the amount of SO's that lived within 5 miles of ST's home? 90!!! We thought the 44 in this case was a lot but that's more than double.[/QUOTE) It will be interesting to see if it is one of those around her. I have never believed it is a SO in Haleigh's case. jmo


When Jessica Lunsford first disappeared some people thought her father was guilty. Some of those same people didn't think it was an SO. They were wrong though.

[Elle]

Haleigh:rose:

[panman]

Anyone know where Misty is staying?

Any more said about the concert and Sam Watkins?

[Zeep]

O/T


Sad news, a friend to many here passed away, Maryhaze, passed on June 24th.

There is a thread in Open Court.

Oh no.. I need to let Gibby know. Thanks, Tracian.

[teresa]

Anyone know where Misty is staying?

Any more said about the concert and Sam Watkins?

No clue. I wonder how long it takes to drop an order of protection? She filed to drop the one against Tommy but the judge hasn't ruled yet.

[FrankieBones1]

No clue. I wonder how long it takes to drop an order of protection? She filed to drop the one against Tommy but the judge hasn't ruled yet. Can a judge overrule that and say, 'No'?

[FrankieBones1]

Anyone know where Misty is staying?

Any more said about the concert and Sam Watkins?No idea where she is but she should be with her grandmother right now, in my opinion.

[Tracian]

Can a judge overrule that and say, 'No'?


Yes, if the judge believes that a real danger is present. Basically, if the judge wants to talk to Misty, she is going to have to say she either lied or over reacted at the time she requested the order.


Many times a judge will just sign the order, without wasting actual court time, at least they can here in CA.

[teresa]

Can a judge overrule that and say, 'No'?

I think they can. She had a legal aid attorney with her when she filed it so they may have presented a pretty convincing case to the judge.

I'd probably bet that Misty will say Ron made her do it now that she has no place to stay, though I think Ron was still in jail when she filed the order so IDK.

In all honesty, I think she'd be better off around Chelsea, if not the rest of her family, than she is with the girl she seems to be staying with now.

[teresa]

No idea where she is but she should be with her grandmother right now, in my opinion.

The lady in Tennessee? I agree as long as LE would not mind her being out of state.

[Chica]

IMO, very sad comment to make.

I saw that comment also and find it not only presumptuous but also so far removed from tragedy to be ignorant of true grief that it was insulting to anyone who has gone through the loss of a child. The audacity that someone would decide how someone should act when confronted with the worst tragedy imaginable was insulting to me, who has lost a child. My hope is the poster will learn from our guidance in how to relate to a grieving parent should he ever have such a person close to his life.

[Wallie]

There was a John Cummings arrested today for contempt of court. Does anyone know if he is related to HaLeigh?

http://public.pcso.us/jail/bookingDetails.aspx?SYSID=757146&IMG=39881

[Justice4all]

There was a John Cummings arrested today for contempt of court. Does anyone know if he is related to HaLeigh?

http://public.pcso.us/jail/bookingDetails.aspx?SYSID=757146&IMG=39881

Don't think so.

[Justice4all]

There was a John Cummings arrested today for contempt of court. Does anyone know if he is related to HaLeigh?

http://public.pcso.us/jail/bookingDetails.aspx?SYSID=757146&IMG=39881

Looks like he's been arrested many times

http://public.pcso.us/jail/history.aspx

just type in Cummings there are 8 Cummings. Ron is at the bottom.

[Chica]

Their thinking has got them NO WHERE in almost nine months so their thinking does not impress me at all.MOO

I have come to the conclusion (mine) that LE has absolutely no idea what happened that fateful night and are no closer to finding Haleigh than they were on day 1. Misty will never tell the truth especially now that she will be returning to her family. I do feel that Misty will leave the area and LE may never speak to her again. I am pained to say this, but I feel the case is cold already and Ron and his mother will never know what happened to Haleigh. Posting on this board has become so difficult due to no new information that it is impossible to stay within the bounds of the TOS which constantly results in reprimands and the closing of the thread.
Very sad, indeed. Bye, Chica

[tia marie]

Don't think so.

Isn't he Jack Lester Cummings brother?

[teresa]

I have come to the conclusion (mine) that LE has absolutely no idea what happened that fateful night and are no closer to finding Haleigh than they were on day 1. Misty will never tell the truth especially now that she will be returning to her family. I do feel that Misty will leave the area and LE may never speak to her again. I am pained to say this, but I feel the case is cold already and Ron and his mother will never know what happened to Haleigh. Posting on this board has become so difficult due to no new information that it is impossible to stay within the bounds of the TOS which constantly results in reprimands and the closing of the thread.
Very sad, indeed. Bye, Chica

I wish you would stay Chica. Haleigh being in the public eye, even just on forums, keeps LE aware that we will not allow them to let this case go cold if we can help it.

[tia marie]

I have come to the conclusion (mine) that LE has absolutely no idea what happened that fateful night and are no closer to finding Haleigh than they were on day 1. Misty will never tell the truth especially now that she will be returning to her family. I do feel that Misty will leave the area and LE may never speak to her again. I am pained to say this, but I feel the case is cold already and Ron and his mother will never know what happened to Haleigh. Posting on this board has become so difficult due to no new information that it is impossible to stay within the bounds of the TOS which constantly results in reprimands and the closing of the thread.
Very sad, indeed. Bye, Chica

I hope you reconsider Chica, we may not have the same opinion on this case, but you have always contributed a worthwhile read. This Haleigh board has been on a slow decline for weeks now due to the lack of news. I would hate to see it go down to the closed case file. Only 69 posts here today.

Haleigh needs has many supporters as can be mustered to keep her story alive.

[panman]

I wish you would stay Chica. Haleigh being in the public eye, even just on forums, keeps LE aware that we will not allow them to let this case go cold if we can help it.

Absolutely agree. Haleigh is still out there somewhere.

[Justice4all]

Isn't he Jack Lester Cummings brother?

He doesn't have a brother he has a sister. Crystal Cummings.

[Elle]

Thinking of Haleigh:rose:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o3DbkF8Gxk
When I look to the sky

[tia marie]

He doesn't have a brother he has a sister. Crystal Cummings.

Crystal is Ron's sister. Jack Lester Cummings is their dad. John Travis could be their uncle.

[Chica]

You guys are great and yes even though we may not agree at times, it has been a pleasure to debate with you. I feel very frustrated with the case and really feel LE has dropped the ball on this one. I will lurk around, but feel like I am in grade school with the reporting and the constant breaks and closing of the board. I am 58 yrs old, have lost my only child and feel hurt and punished when this happens. I might get banned for speaking my mind and so be it.

[teresa]

I hope you reconsider Chica, we may not have the same opinion on this case, but you have always contributed a worthwhile read. This Haleigh board has been on a slow decline for weeks now due to the lack of news. I would hate to see it go down to the closed case file. Only 69 posts here today.

Haleigh needs has many supporters as can be mustered to keep her story alive.

I agree. I think some of the slowness this week is due to little Somer. Even I, who swore I'd never follow a case other than Haleigh, have read all the posts there. Heartbreaking. :sad:

[tia marie]

You guys are great and yes even though we may not agree at times, it has been a pleasure to debate with you. I feel very frustrated with the case and really feel LE has dropped the ball on this one. I will lurk around, but feel like I am in grade school with the reporting and the constant breaks and closing of the board. I am 58 yrs old, have lost my only child and feel hurt and punished when this happens. I might get banned for speaking my mind and so be it.

I can't imagine losing a child and the pain your left with, let alone your ONLY child. My heart goes out to you Chica. Truly.

[teresa]

You guys are great and yes even though we may not agree at times, it has been a pleasure to debate with you. I feel very frustrated with the case and really feel LE has dropped the ball on this one. I will lurk around, but feel like I am in grade school with the reporting and the constant breaks and closing of the board. I am 58 yrs old, have lost my only child and feel hurt and punished when this happens. I might get banned for speaking my mind and so be it.

Oh Chica, I'm so sorry! I lost my brother when he was way too young to die and my mother still grieves all these years later.

I think LE dropped the ball on Haleigh, too. I do think that the new FDLE guy has made progress and Sheriff Hardy has emerged from hiding to defend his handling of Haleigh's case after they found Somer so fast. He needs to be seen in public and held accountable for this case.

[tia marie]

Teresa

PCLE did "drop the ball" on this case. Two children found this week due to LE's diligence, and here we are going on 9 mos, Haleigh is still missing and all we hear from LE is they are hoping someone will slip up. Well that isn't working. They need to get their boots to the ground again. Look where that child in Missouri was found. In the woods. Sure thanks to a tip, but LE was working that case faithfully, can we say that about PC? They blew their chance the other night when they could have brought Misty in for questioning.

moo

[FrankieBones1]

The lady in Tennessee? I agree as long as LE would not mind her being out of state.

Can Putnam County LE not let the ones in Tenn know to keep an eye on her?

[FrankieBones1]

I wish you would stay Chica. Haleigh being in the public eye, even just on forums, keeps LE aware that we will not allow them to let this case go cold if we can help it.

Hi, Chica. Teresa is absolutely right. :rose:

[Justice4all]

Crystal is Ron's sister. Jack Lester Cummings is their dad. John Travis could be their uncle.

Yes Jack is his Father. and i have no clue if that's his uncle or not.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Maybe it's time for them to put on some big boy pants and admit they may have been wrong and start seriously looking in other directions.

I'm not excusing Misty in any way because if she left the home that night she opened the door (metaphorically) for Haleigh to disappear. I think there is a strong possibility she left the kids sleeping alone at home and someone took advantage of her absence. I still think the door being propped open was so that someone could go back in after Junior but they were interuppted.


The only problem with that line of thinking is the kitchen light being turned on and why prop the screen door but not the door that won't stay open?

My other thoughts would depend on Tommy telling the truth or not?

[titanfan217]

Teresa

PCLE did "drop the ball" on this case. Two children found this week due to LE's diligence, and here we are going on 9 mos, Haleigh is still missing and all we hear from LE is they are hoping someone will slip up. Well that isn't working. They need to get their boots to the ground again. Look where that child in Missouri was found. In the woods. Sure thanks to a tip, but LE was working that case faithfully, can we say that about PC? They blew their chance the other night when they could have brought Misty in for questioning.

moo

It's not nearly all LE's fault. If someone(s) would tell the truth and quit covering and/or do a song & dance, they could have the same results as other agencies.

Someone admitted in Somer's case, that if they had not found her when they did, they may never have found her.

[teresa]

Teresa

PCLE did "drop the ball" on this case. Two children found this week due to LE's diligence, and here we are going on 9 mos, Haleigh is still missing and all we hear from LE is they are hoping someone will slip up. Well that isn't working. They need to get their boots to the ground again. Look where that child in Missouri was found. In the woods. Sure thanks to a tip, but LE was working that case faithfully, can we say that about PC? They blew their chance the other night when they could have brought Misty in for questioning.

moo

I can't argue with that Tia. I don't know if someone else saying you are trying to buy drugs is grounds to bring them in but you would think they could have found something by now if they tried hard enough.

I go back to them putting the bedding on the ramp and leaving the door for weeks and just wonder what all they messed up that we don't even know about.

[TaraCrazyHair]

You guys are great and yes even though we may not agree at times, it has been a pleasure to debate with you. I feel very frustrated with the case and really feel LE has dropped the ball on this one. I will lurk around, but feel like I am in grade school with the reporting and the constant breaks and closing of the board. I am 58 yrs old, have lost my only child and feel hurt and punished when this happens. I might get banned for speaking my mind and so be it.

I am so sorry about the loss of your child :(

I agree about the "grade school" comment ... and the principle always giving time outs ... very aggravating yet other boards get away with vicious debates about family members that are not the suspected or guilty party

[teresa]

Can Putnam County LE not let the ones in Tenn know to keep an eye on her?

I'm sure they could. They would probably rather her stay in case they catch her doing something bad enough to arrest her and keep her for a few days. I think they should turn the case over to the FBI anyway so they could sure keep an eye on her.

[TaraCrazyHair]

I can't argue with that Tia. I don't know if someone else saying you are trying to buy drugs is grounds to bring them in but you would think they could have found something by now if they tried hard enough.

I go back to them putting the bedding on the ramp and leaving the door for weeks and just wonder what all they messed up that we don't even know about.

I would hope they took prints from the door that night so no need to take the door .. (until an inconsistency came up) and the bedding seemed the thing to do with the dogs

It is not following the dog's lead that kinda bothered me

[teresa]

It's not nearly all LE's fault. If someone(s) would tell the truth and quit covering and/or do a song & dance, they could have the same results as other agencies.

Someone admitted in Somer's case, that if they had not found her when they did, they may never have found her.

I didn't know that they said that about Somer's case. How scary to think that she would have been buried under garbage and her family never knowing.

I will never understand with that many kids out after school that someone could just snatch that little girl and no one saw a thing. It's just hard to believe how quick it can happen in broad daylight.

I think if Misty is involved, she HAD to have help. I wish we knew what time she called Timmy that night. Before the 911 call is a lot of hours.

[teresa]

I would hope they took prints from the door that night so no need to take the door .. (until an inconsistency came up) and the bedding seemed the thing to do with the dogs

It is not following the dog's lead that kinda bothered me

Tara, if they had to isolate the bedding from the rest of the home, it seems the ramp that had the door propped open should be the last place to put it. I've never heard of LE having to take something outside to get a scent before. I haven't followed cases online so maybe that is standard procedure but it will never make sense to me to put it on the ramp.

[Tracian]

I didn't know that they said that about Somer's case. How scary to think that she would have been buried under garbage and her family never knowing.

I will never understand with that many kids out after school that someone could just snatch that little girl and no one saw a thing. It's just hard to believe how quick it can happen in broad daylight.

I think if Misty is involved, she HAD to have help. I wish we knew what time she called Timmy that night. Before the 911 call is a lot of hours.


I don't think they have a POI in this case, IIRC it was the other little girl that was just found, Elizabeth Olten's, that a person led them to her, another 'juvenile'

IIRC LE just followed where the area's garbage is dumped, and made their sad discovery.

IMO, I do think LE should have done a few things different, but right now I don't think they dropped the ball...I do think they never figured they would run into a 17 year old that was able to stone wall as well as she has.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Tara, if they had to isolate the bedding from the rest of the home, it seems the ramp that had the door propped open should be the last place to put it. I've never heard of LE having to take something outside to get a scent before. I haven't followed cases online so maybe that is standard procedure but it will never make sense to me to put it on the ramp.

Haleigh's scent would have been throughout the home ... maybe that is why the bedding was taken outside?

Remember too, Ron sated that door was never used so haleigh's scent would not have been on the ramp to confuse the dogs

(shrug)

[teresa]

Haleigh's scent would have been throughout the home ... maybe that is why the bedding was taken outside?

I think that is the reasoning they gave. I wish they had used the front porch or somewhere other than the ramp.

When you said they maybe came back for the door after an inconsistency came up, do you mean that there was no signs of someone breaking in? I think they said that by the 3rd day so why wait weeks to get it?

I hope we get answers someday because it really puzzles me.

[tia marie]

I think that is the reasoning they gave. I wish they had used the front porch or somewhere other than the ramp.

When you said they maybe came back for the door after an inconsistency came up, do you mean that there was no signs of someone breaking in? I think they said that by the 3rd day so why wait weeks to get it?

I hope we get answers someday because it really puzzles me.

I hope someday LE will explain why they took the screen door. I would think their interest would have been on the inside door that had the deadbolt. Why the screen door puzzles me.

[TaraCrazyHair]

I think that is the reasoning they gave. I wish they had used the front porch or somewhere other than the ramp.

When you said they maybe came back for the door after an inconsistency came up, do you mean that there was no signs of someone breaking in? I think they said that by the 3rd day so why wait weeks to get it?

I hope we get answers someday because it really puzzles me.

I edited my post to add Remember too, Ron stated that door was never used so haleigh's scent would not have been on the ramp to confuse the dogs

I think new eyes and ears went over initial statements and that is why the door was taken (you know my views on the back doors)

[TaraCrazyHair]

I hope someday LE will explain why they took the screen door. I would think their interest would have been on the inside door that had the deadbolt. Why the screen door puzzles me.

One of the Nancy Grace shows that Ron was on, he stated they took the back door .. locks and all .. not the screen door?

[teresa]

I don't think they have a POI in this case, IIRC it was the other little girl that was just found, Elizabeth Olten's, that a person led them to her, another 'juvenile'

IIRC LE just followed where the area's garbage is dumped, and made their sad discovery.

IMO, I do think LE should have done a few things different, but right now I don't think they dropped the ball...I do think they never figured they would run into a 17 year old that was able to stone wall as well as she has.

Tracian, I can't make up my mind about Misty. She is obviously not a meek and fearful person like I thought she might have been. The thing about her that bugs me is whether or not she really flunked those first 2 LDT's. If she did, why did LE even bother giving Crystal one a week later? I don't understand that and why they didn't come down harder on Misty right away instead of waiting until weeks later.

I think there is a small chance she really was just passed out asleep. I also think it is possible that Tommy gave her something that knocked her into a deep sleep whether or not he later came back. If Tommy is totally uninvolved, she may have just ask him for something to help her go to sleep early. Did Hank Sr say Tommy had muscle relaxers when he accused Ron of trying to kill him?

I don't know. I just don't trust any of her family or her either.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Tracian, I can't make up my mind about Misty. She is obviously not a meek and fearful person like I thought she might have been. The thing about her that bugs me is whether or not she really flunked those first 2 LDT's. If she did, why did LE even bother giving Crystal one a week later? I don't understand that and why they didn't come down harder on Misty right away instead of waiting until weeks later.

I think there is a small chance she really was just passed out asleep. I also think it is possible that Tommy gave her something that knocked her into a deep sleep whether or not he later came back. If Tommy is totally uninvolved, she may have just ask him for something to help her go to sleep early. Did Hank Sr say Tommy had muscle relaxers when he accused Ron of trying to kill him?

I don't know. I just don't trust any of her family or her either.

LE stated at the very beginning they had to use kid gloves with Misty due to her age

[4Kids]

You guys are great and yes even though we may not agree at times, it has been a pleasure to debate with you. I feel very frustrated with the case and really feel LE has dropped the ball on this one. I will lurk around, but feel like I am in grade school with the reporting and the constant breaks and closing of the board. I am 58 yrs old, have lost my only child and feel hurt and punished when this happens. I might get banned for speaking my mind and so be it.

Chica...I agree. I too have been lurking and will continue to do so. The same old arguments...so sad that there is nothing to discuss. LE did not lie. They are no further than they were on day one. I pray that this child is found.

Chica....may you find peace.

IMO

[TaraCrazyHair]

I finally had a chance to watch the Maury show today and one thing kept crossing my mind as i watched the short segment ..

It should have been Ron and Crystal on the show as the parents ... Teresa and Ron seemed a bit awkward as Mother and Son opposed to parents

Not sure if I am making my thoughts clear but ....

[Tracian]

Tracian, I can't make up my mind about Misty. She is obviously not a meek and fearful person like I thought she might have been. The thing about her that bugs me is whether or not she really flunked those first 2 LDT's. If she did, why did LE even bother giving Crystal one a week later? I don't understand that and why they didn't come down harder on Misty right away instead of waiting until weeks later.

I think there is a small chance she really was just passed out asleep. I also think it is possible that Tommy gave her something that knocked her into a deep sleep whether or not he later came back. If Tommy is totally uninvolved, she may have just ask him for something to help her go to sleep early. Did Hank Sr say Tommy had muscle relaxers when he accused Ron of trying to kill him?

I don't know. I just don't trust any of her family or her either.


My 22 year old daughter (today is her birthday) tells me I watch too much Lifetime movies, :lol: but after watching Misty, I just don't trust her, something about her body language in more recent interviews, got me looking at the older ones...she closes her eyes a lot, her eyes move up and to the left when answering a question...she seems almost arrogantly annoyed that when people ask basic questions..she has 'offered' up, her brother, and 'the other side of the family'

That young lady is hiding something, at first I thought it was 'innocent' like sneaking out of the house...now, I am not so sure.

[teresa]

I hope someday LE will explain why they took the screen door. I would think their interest would have been on the inside door that had the deadbolt. Why the screen door puzzles me.

Me too, Tia. I have read that transcript of Ron on NG the Monday after the Today Show/wedding trip several times. He said they took the door and the locks, IIRC. I've wondered if they took both doors and we just don't know or if they took the locks off the inside door to test them. I don't know why he mentioned locks in that conversation when he said the screen door only had a little plastic lock on it.

Maybe they took the locks on the door and replaced them? Like you said, I can't think of any reason to take the screen one and not the other unless it was to show that the screen door was propped open frequently based on prior scratches or something. Maybe they found bits of paint on the brick and realized later they'd need the door to show that's where they came from whether it was staged or not.

[Tracian]

I finally had a chance to watch the Maury show today and one thing kept crossing my mind as i watched the short segment ..

It should have been Ron and Crystal on the show as the parents ... Teresa and Ron seemed a bit awkward as Mother and Son opposed to parents

Not sure if I am making my thoughts clear but ....


It seems to me, that both Ron and Crystal are most comfortable with their mothers at this time. I would have liked for Crystal to be there as well, but perhaps she is just not comfortable in front of the camera.

My heart goes out to both sides...this has to be living hell.

[TaraCrazyHair]

My 22 year old daughter (today is her birthday) tells me I watch too much Lifetime movies, :lol: but after watching Misty, I just don't trust her, something about her body language in more recent interviews, got me looking at the older ones...she closes her eyes a lot, her eyes move up and to the left when answering a question...she seems almost arrogantly annoyed that when people ask basic questions..she has 'offered' up, her brother, and 'the other side of the family'

That young lady is hiding something, at first I thought it was 'innocent' like sneaking out of the house...now, I am not so sure.

The difference in her between the two 911 calls is glaring!!!!

[tia marie]

One of the Nancy Grace shows that Ron was on, he stated they took the back door .. locks and all .. not the screen door?

Photographs of the rear door still show the inside door intact and at least until the 27th of July when the last photo was taken, the screen door was still missing.

[TaraCrazyHair]

It seems to me, that both Ron and Crystal are most comfortable with their mothers at this time. I would have liked for Crystal to be there as well, but perhaps she is just not comfortable in front of the camera.

My heart goes out to both sides...this has to be living hell.

It has been 9 months of no answers ... if they cannot put things aside and be adults for Haleigh's sake, then how do they expect anyone else to feel the desperation?

[teresa]

I edited my post to add Remember too, Ron stated that door was never used so haleigh's scent would not have been on the ramp to confuse the dogs

I think new eyes and ears went over initial statements and that is why the door was taken (you know my views on the back doors)

That's true but if it was someone who didn't live there, even if just someone Misty called for help, they ruined any evidence they might have found on the ramp.

I agree about new eyes telling them to go get that door even if it was a just in case type thing.

[Tracian]

The difference in her between the two 911 calls is glaring!!!!


Misty is not the shrinking violet that I once thought, she IMO, is very manipulative.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Photographs of the rear door still show the inside door intact and at least until the 27th of July when the last photo was taken, the screen door was still missing.


Something was stated about the back door being replaced when it was taken ... you can't leave a home without a door

All I know is Ron himself said they took the back door, locks and all

[Tracian]

It has been 9 months of no answers ... if they cannot put things aside and be adults for Haleigh's sake, then how do they expect anyone else to feel the desperation?

Well, thank goodness I never had to live this, but in fairness we do know Crystal has in the past had seizures, it is possible that stress would cause her to have one, and therefore, she is working more behind the scenes.

[TaraCrazyHair]

That's true but if it was someone who didn't live there, even if just someone Misty called for help, they ruined any evidence they might have found on the ramp.

I agree about new eyes telling them to go get that door even if it was a just in case type thing.


Don't you think their CSI took all that into account first? I would hope so anyway

[TaraCrazyHair]

Well, thank goodness I never had to live this, but in fairness we do know Crystal has in the past had seizures, it is possible that stress would cause her to have one, and therefore, she is working more behind the scenes.

She was just in an interview not too long ago .. I don't know i just feel she should have been there

Was she even granted the opportunity? I would think Maury extended the invitation ... right?

[TaraCrazyHair]

Misty is not the shrinking violet that I once thought, she IMO, is very manipulative.


I am so mixed on Misty it is not even funny!

Yet she is still nothing but a child ... with a horrible upbringing and life as she knows it

[Tracian]

She was just in an interview not too long ago .. I don't know i just feel she should have been there

Was she even granted the opportunity? I would think Maury extended the invitation ... right?


I don't know if she was or not; either way, it matters that Haleigh's name was out there again, to other media that may not have been following.

[teresa]

Misty is not the shrinking violet that I once thought, she IMO, is very manipulative.

I agree. I'm sure some of the way she reacts now is due to the amount of time that has passed from the initial fear when Haleigh was first missing but I think she is a lot stronger than I had thought she was.

I also agree that the people on Maury's show should have asked both of Haleigh's parents to come. It's my really really strong opinion that Ron & Crystal talk a lot more than people think and they are past their earlier anger from when KP was there.

[TaraCrazyHair]

I don't know if she was or not; either way, it matters that Haleigh's name was out there again, to other media that may not have been following.

Case in point ... and with people who may not have been familiar with the case wondering where is this missing child's mommy at?

See what i mean?

[Tracian]

I am so mixed on Misty it is not even funny!

Yet she is still nothing but a child ... with a horrible upbringing and life as she knows it

The girls that murdered Missy Aliva were only 'children' too, as was Derek Robie's murderer, 13 year old Eric Smith.

While I agree her growing up years were horrid, that does not negate that LE has maintained she is holding the key.

I apologise in advance if I sound snarky, but sometimes, as different cases prove, age does not negate premeditated acts of evil.

[tia marie]

Something was stated about the back door being replaced when it was taken ... you can't leave a home without a door

All I know is Ron himself said they took the back door, locks and all

During the NG walk thru and subsequently later when Ron did his, the rear door was still there.

I don't know how Ron could say it was removed. Both of those walk thru's occured in March.

moo

[teresa]

Don't you think their CSI took all that into account first? I would hope so anyway

Tara, the first dogs got there so early that I really don't think someone warned them not to put the bedding on the ramp. I will always think that was a big mistake even if it held not one bit of evidence on it.

[Tracian]

Case in point ... and with people who may not have been familiar with the case wondering where is this missing child's mommy at?

See what i mean?


Yes, I understand what you are saying; however, why the other parent is not on TV is not as important as Haleigh's picture being on TV.

[tia marie]

Case in point ... and with people who may not have been familiar with the case wondering where is this missing child's mommy at?

See what i mean?

That's an excellant point about Crystal not being there and Teresa was, Tara. I never gave it a thought until you mentioned it. Maury should have invited her, I hope he did, and it was Crystal's choice not to attend.


psst....did you get the photos I sent?

[TaraCrazyHair]

During the NG walk thru and subsequently later when Ron did his, the rear door was still there.

I don't know how Ron could say it was removed. Both of those walk thru's occured in March.

moo

GRACE: Why did police take your back door off the hinges and take it away, Ronald?

CUMMINGS: I`m not sure. They took it for some further investigation. I think the locks and everything. They want to check some things that those -- you would have to ask them, the investigators on that one, Miss Nancy.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/16/ng.01.html

[teresa]

During the NG walk thru and subsequently later when Ron did his, the rear door was still there.

I don't know how Ron could say it was removed. Both of those walk thru's occured in March.

moo

Tia, both of those walk throughs still had the screen door too. I think they took it just a fews days after that.

Were the walk throughs just before the wedding? It seems like they had just taken the door in the recent days before Ron was on NG that Monday night (Mar 16). Do you remember when they got the door?

[Tracian]

That's an excellant point about Crystal not being there and Teresa was, Tara. I never gave it a thought until you mentioned it. Maury should have invited her, I hope he did, and it was Crystal's choice not to attend.


psst....did you get the photos I sent?


Has Crystal made any appearances without Ron? Geeze..maybe they are splitting up media appearances to get the most exposure.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Yes, I understand what you are saying; however, why the other parent is not on TV is not as important as Haleigh's picture being on TV.

It can be to get people to pay attention to the missing child and not wonder what the family dynamics are

People anymore suspect the parents then move outwards .. and people are just as sick of parenticide as they are SO's ... if not moreso

Numbness sets in and people quit looking and caring

[teresa]

GRACE: Why did police take your back door off the hinges and take it away, Ronald?

CUMMINGS: I`m not sure. They took it for some further investigation. I think the locks and everything. They want to check some things that those -- you would have to ask them, the investigators on that one, Miss Nancy.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/16/ng.01.html

That's the quote I was remembering. In that interview, you can see the screen door is gone but not the inside door. They may have taken it and replaced it but the way he said "locks and everything" makes me wonder if they took the screen door and just the locks off the other door and replaced them.

It just doesn't make sense for him to say locks and everything because they'd never take the door and leave the locks behind.

[tia marie]

Tia, both of those walk throughs still had the screen door too. I think they took it just a fews days after that.

Were the walk throughs just before the wedding? It seems like they had just taken the door in the recent days before Ron was on NG that Monday night (Mar 16). Do you remember when they got the door?

The screen door was removed as a result of the two investigators from the state that happened, ironically to visit the trailer the same day as the NG walk thru. The media coverage of that day states that.

Not for nothing, and hate to pose this, but is it possible this is what happened to Haleigh?


http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/10/23/commendable-police-work.php

[TaraCrazyHair]

Tia, both of those walk throughs still had the screen door too. I think they took it just a fews days after that.

Were the walk throughs just before the wedding? It seems like they had just taken the door in the recent days before Ron was on NG that Monday night (Mar 16). Do you remember when they got the door?

March 12th or 13th

[Tracian]

It can be to get people to pay attention to the missing child and not wonder what the family dynamics are

People anymore suspect the parents then move outwards .. and people are just as sick of parenticide as they are SO's ... if not moreso

Numbness sets in and people quit looking and caring


On Maury's show, when the segment on Robert Romero was on, it never even crossed my mind about 'where is the dad'.

Of course we discovered that he had passed away.

Really, if does not matter if people suspect either parent, what matters is her picture on TV...maybe reaching a larger group of viewers.

IIRC Crystal appeared on Geraldo without Ron...oh, that's right, Geraldo wanted to make a villain out of Ron...can't have him there for that, ratings and all...

The bottom line is that Ron went on Maury...I don't know if Crystal was or was not invited...but it seems that the concern about both parents is only of issue when it is Ron on a show for some, when Crystal goes on a show alone...not a problem?

:confused:

[TaraCrazyHair]

That's the quote I was remembering. In that interview, you can see the screen door is gone but not the inside door. They may have taken it and replaced it but the way he said "locks and everything" makes me wonder if they took the screen door and just the locks off the other door and replaced them.

It just doesn't make sense for him to say locks and everything because they'd never take the door and leave the locks behind.

Two locks on the back door ... Ron says plural "locks"

There is a vast difference between a screen and back door

[Tracian]

Two locks on the back door ... Ron says plural "locks"

There is a vast difference between a screen and back door


Could he have meant the door knob lock and the dead bolt?

[TaraCrazyHair]

Could he have meant the door knob lock and the dead bolt?


I dunno -- he said took the back door locks and all (shrug)

When did the previous renter mention his locks?

[W_D_1]

The only problem with that line of thinking is the kitchen light being turned on and why prop the screen door but not the door that won't stay open?

My other thoughts would depend on Tommy telling the truth or not?


Misty could have left the light on so she could see when she came back in (if she left).

[TaraCrazyHair]

Misty could have left the light on so she could see when she came back in (if she left).

Coulda Woulda Shoulda

She said it was off lol

[W_D_1]

Photographs of the rear door still show the inside door intact and at least until the 27th of July when the last photo was taken, the screen door was still missing.


If they took the door itself someone would have put another door up and not left it wide open. If another door was put on the screen door might not have fit if the doors weren't the same size.

[teresa]

The screen door was removed as a result of the two investigators from the state that happened, ironically to visit the trailer the same day as the NG walk thru. The media coverage of that day states that.

Not for nothing, and hate to pose this, but is it possible this is what happened to Haleigh?


http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/10/23/commendable-police-work.php

I sure hope not. I hope they are being truthful when they say they searched the landfill. I don't think they should have limited it just to Southern Putnam Co like they said. If she was taken by car somewhere and put in a dumpster, we'll never know. :sad:

[teresa]

Two locks on the back door ... Ron says plural "locks"

There is a vast difference between a screen and back door

I agree but we know they took the screen door. It's the other door we don't know about. I hope they took it and replaced it but we don't know.

[TaraCrazyHair]

I sure hope not. I hope they are being truthful when they say they searched the landfill. I don't think they should have limited it just to Southern Putnam Co like they said. If she was taken by car somewhere and put in a dumpster, we'll never know. :sad:

Didn't the dogs track to the river that very first night?

[W_D_1]

During the NG walk thru and subsequently later when Ron did his, the rear door was still there.

I don't know how Ron could say it was removed. Both of those walk thru's occured in March.

moo


The police didn't take the door until after the media had been in the home.

[teresa]

If they took the door itself someone would have put another door up and not left it wide open. If another door was put on the screen door might not have fit if the doors weren't the same size.

Now that's a good thought. I hope it is the inside door they took and they either took the screen one, too, or at least didn't put it back on.

[W_D_1]

Coulda Woulda Shoulda

She said it was off lol



She also said she went to bed around 10 but we know that's a lie. Most of her story about that night is a lie.

[teresa]

Didn't the dogs track to the river that very first night?

The first ones there didn't. They are the ones who went toward the woods and then backtracked past the home and went in that loop around Monroe/Buchanan and then down Tyler to the railroad tracks.

The dogs who came later tracked to that lady's dock but LE said the wind was blowing the scent around so we don't know for sure. Actually we don't know where all the second set of dogs went because it's not in the police report.

[TaraCrazyHair]

The first ones there didn't. They are the ones who went toward the woods and then backtracked past the home and went in that loop around Monroe/Buchanan and then down Tyler to the railroad tracks.

The dogs who came later tracked to that lady's dock but LE said the wind was blowing the scent around so we don't know for sure. Actually we don't know where all the second set of dogs went because it's not in the police report.

When did the cadaver dogs come in?

[TaraCrazyHair]

She also said she went to bed around 10 but we know that's a lie. Most of her story about that night is a lie.

How is it a lie?

[W_D_1]

How is it a lie?

What? That she went to bed? Because the bed was made. And if she lied about that why should anything else she said be believed?

FTR...the door was taken on March 11th.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18915206/detail.html

[TaraCrazyHair]

What? That she went to bed? Because the bed was made. And if she lied about that why should anything else she said be believed?

FTR...the door was taken on March 11th.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18915206/detail.html

I personally believe nothing that came from the 911 call that night

Le takes the door ... they get married ASAP

So many thoughts on that maneuver lol

[titanfan217]

Case in point ... and with people who may not have been familiar with the case wondering where is this missing child's mommy at?

See what i mean?


That's true, but how stupid the reinactment was etc etc etc, I doubt Crystal could have fixed that mess.

[W_D_1]

Nancy Grace walkthrough was done on March 6th.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0903/06/ng.01.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsF0LIHu1xU

Police took the door (whichever one) five days later on March 11th per the link I posted a few minutes ago.

[tia marie]

What? That she went to bed? Because the bed was made. And if she lied about that why should anything else she said be believed?

FTR...the door was taken on March 11th.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18915206/detail.html

Still confusion. The article says the "door that was propped open". That was the screen door that was propped with the cinder block. Its unclear in this article what door, nor does it say plural doors. I know for certain the screen door was removed, not so much about the inner door irregardles of this article or Ron saying so.

moo

[W_D_1]

I personally believe nothing that came from the 911 call that night

Le takes the door ... they get married ASAP

So many thoughts on that maneuver lol

Didn't he propose before LE took the door? And when he proposed it was said they would get married soon. So how is that a maneuver? Or do you think the police notified him in advance that they were coming to take the door?

[TaraCrazyHair]

That's true, but how stupid the reinactment was etc etc etc, I doubt Crystal could have fixed that mess.

LOL that much is true

The whole Ron/Teresa thing minus Mommy and new stepmommy now divorced less than year later with a tattoo of Mom across his chest is so very odd to me in a case where this little girl is missing, so many questions and not a single answer and who appears on national television to discuss a case that is not even discussed ... come on!

Something is so not right with the entire mess

MOO and all that jazz

[TaraCrazyHair]

Didn't he propose before LE took the door? And when he proposed it was said they would get married soon. So how is that a maneuver? Or do you think the police notified him in advance that they were coming to take the door?
Quite possible they did since the door had to be replaced

It was done without a search warrant correct?

[TaraCrazyHair]

Still confusion. The article says the "door that was propped open". That was the screen door that was propped with the cinder block. Its unclear in this article what door, nor does it say plural doors. I know for certain the screen door was removed, not so much about the inner door irregardles of this article or Ron saying so.

moo

All 911 call references are to the back door being wide open .. that is what alerted Misty

Back door does not stay open on its own .. then it becomes the screen door propped

(also block was on the floor not the walkway)

Like I have said before . when and if this ever comes to trial .. those first words from both ron and misty will come to haunt
That is simply my pet peeve from this case and will continue to be so until resolution

[W_D_1]

Still confusion. The article says the "door that was propped open". That was the screen door that was propped with the cinder block. Its unclear in this article what door, nor does it say plural doors. I know for certain the screen door was removed, not so much about the inner door irregardles of this article or Ron saying so.

moo



Some mobile home doors have a built in screen/storm door. It's possible that is the type that was on that particular home.

http://mobilehomepartsstore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CD3480SPSS

[W_D_1]

Quite possible they did since the door had to be replaced

It was done without a search warrant correct?


I doubt it was done without a search warrant. We may not have seen one yet but I bet there was one.

[W_D_1]

How do you know the 10 o'clock bedtime was/is a lie?
Did I miss something or are you going by Tommy's story?

If so, what if he is the one who lied?


I'm going by the fact that the bed was made per TM. I don't think Misty got up and made the bed while waiting for police to arrive.

[tia marie]

Quite possible they did since the door had to be replaced

It was done without a search warrant correct?

Now that you mention it, I don't recall anything about a search warrant issued for that door.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Going to sleep but wanted to add one last thought regarding the light and door

Anyone who wakes up and notices something different ... light on that was off, door wide open that is never used ... what do you do?

Especially home alone?

Panic!

Call 911

Immediately

It could be a home invasion in progress ... life is in danger and the children's

yet you wait?

Makes no sense to me ... and that is why something is not right in this case

And while i always thought the 911 call was odd ... now i am convinced after her "purse snatching" was more emotional than her 911 call that night

I wonder why

No script to follow?

(SHRUG)

Night

[tia marie]

Some mobile home doors have a built in screen/storm door. It's possible that is the type that was on that particular home.

http://mobilehomepartsstore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CD3480SPSS

I don't think that's the case with the photos I have seen.It was an ordinary wooden screen door. Why would one want a storm door in Fla? Its glass that shatters during hurricane season, not to mention, its a rental property. Low maintenence type is what most landlords prefer.

[W_D_1]

Going to sleep but wanted to add one last thought regarding the light and door

Anyone who wakes up and notices something different ... light on that was off, door wide open that is never used ... what do you do?

Especially home alone?

Panic!

Call 911

Immediately

It could be a home invasion in progress ... life is in danger and the children's

yet you wait?

Makes no sense to me ... and that is why something is not right in this case

And while i always thought the 911 call was odd ... now i am convinced after her "purse snatching" was more emotional than her 911 call that night

I wonder why

No script to follow?

(SHRUG)

Night



A man walked into my job and robbed me at gunpoint. I was so calm afterwards that police initially thought I was involved. Some people, and I'm one, don't panic easily.

I think her purse snatching 911 call was more hysterical because she was hurt. She kept whining about her arm hurting during the call. I don't think either call had anything to do with any scripts.

[tia marie]

Tim Miller Convinced Haleigh Is No Longer Alive

http://www.palatkadailynews.com/articles/2009/10/24/news/news01.txt

[Texas48]

Since there are so few post on this thread should we just continue on this one for Saturday...??? Anyone..???

[Elle]

Since there are so few post on this thread should we just continue on this one for Saturday...??? Anyone..???

Morning! Yea, that is probably a good idea. With no news, the threads are getting shorter:sad: A new thread means something to me psychologically, but logically, makes sense to combine. imo

Haleigh:rose:

[Texas48]

Morning! Yea, that is probably a good idea. With no news, the threads are getting shorter:sad: A new thread means something to me psychologically, but logically, makes sense to combine. imo

Haleigh:rose:
Thanks Elle...wasn't sure what to do so I'm happy for the imput....I think this is good and IF not CW will help us out......
Your correct...NOT alot of new in this case..but we never know what will happen...as we have seen.LOL..

There are 109 candles lighting the way for HaLeigh Ann-Marie Cummings..:wub:

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=HAMC

[Texas48]

Tim Miller Convinced Haleigh Is No Longer Alive

http://www.palatkadailynews.com/articles/2009/10/24/news/news01.txt
Thanks for the link *tia*....
even more disturbing to see the words in print but it is a fact that needs to be considered...I can fully understand the family members holding on to even a shread of hope for this baby girl....
and I was glad to see that LE is continuing their investigation which means..to me..this is NOT a cold case..yet....

Spokesman for the PCSO Deputy Hancel Woods says the search for HaLeigh is ongoing. According to him LE is still rec. tips...he doesn't say how many....IMO..it only take 1....the right one.

[tia marie]

Thanks for the link *tia*....
even more disturbing to see the words in print but it is a fact that needs to be considered...I can fully understand the family members holding on to even a shread of hope for this baby girl....
and I was glad to see that LE is continuing their investigation which means..to me..this is NOT a cold case..yet....

Spokesman for the PCSO Deputy Hancel Woods says the search for HaLeigh is ongoing. According to him LE is still rec. tips...he doesn't say how many....IMO..it only take 1....the right one.

I found Tim's words puzzling. I know he has searched for people in the past who he felt were no longer alive, ie, Natalee Holloway. Why he is abandoning any search for Haleigh leads me to believe is due to the families dissension. I'm disappointed to say the least that his plan to return to Satsuma this month has been shelved.

[Texas48]

Haleigh, Somer's cases are different according to Lt. Greenwood..
http://www.gainesville.com/article/20091023/articles/910231004&tc=yahoo

[Texas48]

Haleigh's Great Grandmother Reacts to Somer Case and Putnam County Sheriff Jeff Hardy said during the first few days of the investigation that deputies also searched landfills......

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=147059&catid=3#


Its been a long 8 months now so my memory has to try and travel back that far.....I do remember LE searching the dumpsters that were located in the MH Park and this is where the dogs hit on something...
I just cannot remember LE searching the Landfills..Anyone???
And IF I recall correctly TN has asked LE several different times to search the dumpster in the MH Park and it was finally done but I think it was almost 2 weeks into the case..Will have to read and find out exactly when that search was done...BRB..

[Texas48]

I found Tim's words puzzling. I know he has searched for people in the past who he felt were no longer alive, ie, Natalee Holloway. Why he is abandoning any search for Haleigh leads me to believe is due to the families dissension. I'm disappointed to say the least that his plan to return to Satsuma this month has been shelved.BBM
Me too *tia*....is it possible Tim doesn't think they can find her little body after all this time IF she is out in the elements of Florida..? Its been 8 going on 9 months..:sad:

[tia marie]

Haleigh's Great Grandmother Reacts to Somer Case and Putnam County Sheriff Jeff Hardy said during the first few days of the investigation that deputies also searched landfills......

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=147059&catid=3#


Its been a long 8 months now so my memory has to try and travel back that far.....I do remember LE searching the dumpsters that were located in the MH Park and this is where the dogs hit on something...
I just cannot remember LE searching the Landfills..Anyone???
And IF I recall correctly TN has asked LE several different times to search the dumpster in the MH Park and it was finally done but I think it was almost 2 weeks into the case..Will have to read and find out exactly when that search was done...BRB..

I wish Mrs. Sykes had chosen her words more carefully. Somer's family doesn't *have her*. Somer is no longer. Her mom will only have a lock of Somer's hair.

*** It’s really sad and I hate that they found their little girl dead. I really do but they found her. They have her we still don’t have our little girl back we don’t have Haleigh.”


moo

[tia marie]

BBM
Me too *tia*....is it possible Tim doesn't think they can find her little body after all this time IF she is out in the elements of Florida..? Its been 8 going on 9 months..:sad:

Caylee's remains were found in 7 months. Enough to be identified.

[FrankieBones1]

Haleigh's Great Grandmother Reacts to Somer Case and Putnam County Sheriff Jeff Hardy said during the first few days of the investigation that deputies also searched landfills......

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/news-article.aspx?storyid=147059&catid=3#


Its been a long 8 months now so my memory has to try and travel back that far.....I do remember LE searching the dumpsters that were located in the MH Park and this is where the dogs hit on something...
I just cannot remember LE searching the Landfills..Anyone???
And IF I recall correctly TN has asked LE several different times to search the dumpster in the MH Park and it was finally done but I think it was almost 2 weeks into the case..Will have to read and find out exactly when that search was done...BRB..That video is so sad. I know exactly what Annette Sykes meant when she said, "They have her". She meant they have some kind of closure with having found the body and now they can bury their daughter.

It's the not knowing that is hard on families, too. I don't fault Grandmother Sykes in the least! She's a human being for Pete's sake.
In my strong opinion.

[Elle]

Thanks for the link *tia*....
even more disturbing to see the words in print but it is a fact that needs to be considered...I can fully understand the family members holding on to even a shread of hope for this baby girl....
and I was glad to see that LE is continuing their investigation which means..to me..this is NOT a cold case..yet....

Spokesman for the PCSO Deputy Hancel Woods says the search for HaLeigh is ongoing. According to him LE is still rec. tips...he doesn't say how many....IMO..it only take 1....the right one.

Texas, I would bet it is something that is considered painfully quite often.
I am saddened, though I completely understand how priority lies w/ searching for those who possibly can be saved, I also fully understand how he has arrived at his conclusion that Haleigh is no longer alive. That said, and Mr. Miller is entitled to his opinion as is everyone, I found his platform choice and much of his delivery to be harsh and insensitive and his dig about cooperation to be spiteful.
above is completely my opinion.

[Acey]

Good morning every and thanks for the links. Just stopping by to see if there's anything new.

Praying today is the day HaLeigh is returned to her family.

[titanfan217]

BBM
Me too *tia*....is it possible Tim doesn't think they can find her little body after all this time IF she is out in the elements of Florida..? Its been 8 going on 9 months..:sad:

Tim may believe as I do, her body isn't going to be found during a search. If found, it's going to be someone accidentally, or if someone leads LE to it.

[titanfan217]

I wish Mrs. Sykes had chosen her words more carefully. Somer's family doesn't *have her*. Somer is no longer. Her mom will only have a lock of Somer's hair.

*** It’s really sad and I hate that they found their little girl dead. I really do but they found her. They have her we still don’t have our little girl back we don’t have Haleigh.”


moo


That was almost cruel, but guess I'd consider the source.

[Elle]

That was almost cruel, but guess I'd consider the source.

Could you please explain what you mean by 'consider the source', I want to make sure I understand the intent of your post and not misinterpret it.

[Elle]

Good morning every and thanks for the links. Just stopping by to see if there's anything new.

Praying today is the day HaLeigh is returned to her family.

Praying right along with you Acey.

[just4justice]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and post a couple of reminders.
Donald Sapp lived about 3 miles from Hermits Cove by automobile. Through the woods it was 1 mile.
Remember the makeshift chair in the woods - apparently had been urinated on, but did LE attempt to get DNA? NO they did not.
Sapp is related to and familiar to the families. He is a known sex offender.
He was looking for his next victim and we know that because he is in Putnam County jail without bail for recommitting (caught). LE interviewed him early on and dismissed him as the perp.
I have been reading a lot of charts by forensic astrologists. They were SPOT ON in the Caylee Anthony case. In their charts, Sapp is an excellent possibility as being the perpetrator in the Haleigh case. I know a lot of you will pooh pooh forensic astrology. I feel it has reasonable basis and many proven predictions.
The FAs also say Haleigh was raped and murdered and her body was placed in the water.
Long ago I posted my theory about Sapp (long before I read the astrology stuff)and I'm sure LE has read the FAs. Did they give it enough credence to check early on when there would have still been evidence? I doubt it. If they had the case may very well have been solved. Something is amiss with PC LE. I'm not sure what it is, but many of you are saying they dropped the ball and they haven't done a satisfactory job of investigating - until too much evidence disappeared.
Can all of us be wrong?
I hope this board stays live to keep Haleigh's name out there, but resolution is doubtful.
I am heartsick for the families.
As for Misty - she is a lost soul and will never amount to a hill of beans. She will live a life of drugs, sex and crime and Ron is well to be rid of her. Clearly, she wasn't at home the night Haleigh went missing. Sadly, eyewitnesses haven't come to LE with that info. LE could have and should have charged her with neglect. I know, I know some will come out yelling about her age, etc. I don't believe LE is handling her with kid gloves for those reasons. Proof of that is the most recent encounter and no arrest? It appears because of her reputation she will now be a target for muggers whenever she tries to buy drugs. IDK.
I could go on and on for hours about how messed up this case is, but I will stop here. Look forward to comments.

[penny]

Tim Miller Convinced Haleigh Is No Longer Alive

http://www.palatkadailynews.com/articles/2009/10/24/news/news01.txt

Good Morning Everyone,

Thank you for the link - tia

I have to say that I am not surprised and can understand where TM is coming from. In my opinion, he would prefer to search for a live child or at least the hope that the child is still alive and a family that appreciates and wants his help. I just do not think he received that from the Cummings family.

I also feel he thinks his money and time should be spent on missing children that are alive and if not alive at least search for them to help solve the case. I truly feel TM knows that all it would take is for Misty to be honest and then LE would have an excellent chance of solving this case without the help of TM and TES.

I will also say even though I do understand where TM/TES is coming from I am extremely disappointed that he will not be searching for Haleigh. I feel he is the best chance of finding Haleigh and helping solve this case. I also hope at sometime he will change his mind and search for Haleigh. Haleigh DESERVES justice and her family deserves to know the truth ( both sides).

I for one do not think Misty will ever talk unless she gets high or drunk and starts talking to the wrong person. I do think Misty is involved or if not involved at least holding something back and if she is involved, she has no reason to talk because she knows that only means prison for her.

Please, I hope no one slams me for my opinions they are only my thoughts and opinions and I could change my mind tomorrow, who knows.

I am also extremely upset that LE could not come up with some reason to arrest Misty the other night when her friend said they were there to buy drugs. I feel LE missed out on a chance they may not get again for a very long time and that really makes me angry.

So, between LE not arresting Misty and TM/TES deciding not to search for Haleigh I am more scared today then ever that this is going to be a cold case and it will happen very soon. That makes my heart break for both sides of the family. I can not imagine how they are going on now and if this case goes cold then I think the pain will only get much worse.

Now, IF a family member is involved then I do NOT feel sorry for them of course. I hope they are caught and I don't care who they are.

[SilentSanity]

So now AS is "almost cruel" because she pretty much states they'd like to have HaLeigh returned home, as Somer was. To me that means, even if the worst has happened to HaLeigh, as is the case with Somer, they still want her back home.
Would some actually prefer if the Cummings family did not want HaLeigh returned, regardless of the outcome of that return? :confused:


I really don't understand the need to put such a negative spin on everything you can twist. Kinda sick to do to a grieving family, isn't it :cursing:

Prayers for HaLeigh and all of her family :rose:

[SilentSanity]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and post a couple of reminders.
Donald Sapp lived about 3 miles from Hermits Cove by automobile. Through the woods it was 1 mile.
Remember the makeshift chair in the woods - apparently had been urinated on, but did LE attempt to get DNA? NO they did not.
Sapp is related to and familiar to the families. He is a known sex offender.
He was looking for his next victim and we know that because he is in Putnam County jail without bail for recommitting (caught). LE interviewed him early on and dismissed him as the perp.
I have been reading a lot of charts by forensic astrologists. They were SPOT ON in the Caylee Anthony case. In their charts, Sapp is an excellent possibility as being the perpetrator in the Haleigh case. I know a lot of you will pooh pooh forensic astrology. I feel it has reasonable basis and many proven predictions.
The FAs also say Haleigh was raped and murdered and her body was placed in the water.
Long ago I posted my theory about Sapp (long before I read the astrology stuff)and I'm sure LE has read the FAs. Did they give it enough credence to check early on when there would have still been evidence? I doubt it. If they had the case may very well have been solved. Something is amiss with PC LE. I'm not sure what it is, but many of you are saying they dropped the ball and they haven't done a satisfactory job of investigating - until too much evidence disappeared.
Can all of us be wrong?
I hope this board stays live to keep Haleigh's name out there, but resolution is doubtful.
I am heartsick for the families.
As for Misty - she is a lost soul and will never amount to a hill of beans. She will live a life of drugs, sex and crime and Ron is well to be rid of her. Clearly, she wasn't at home the night Haleigh went missing. Sadly, eyewitnesses haven't come to LE with that info. LE could have and should have charged her with neglect. I know, I know some will come out yelling about her age, etc. I don't believe LE is handling her with kid gloves for those reasons. Proof of that is the most recent encounter and no arrest? It appears because of her reputation she will now be a target for muggers whenever she tries to buy drugs. IDK.
I could go on and on for hours about how messed up this case is, but I will stop here. Look forward to comments.

BBM

Wow! I had not heard of the chair being urinated on before?! You'd think they'd have tested it, even just in case! How unfortunate, all those lost chances (however slim) of bringing resolution to this case :sad:

I don't disagree on the direction you are going with Sapp, as I am still on the fence, but I just wanted to point out that he is not actually related to any of these characters. He just happens to share a last name with Lindsy Croslin's (Tommy's wife) grandfather.. But there is no relation. Not that it rules him out as being involved, IMO.
I wish we knew what kinda alibi's these people have allowed LE to rule them out so quickly :confused:

[just4justice]

BBM

Wow! I had not heard of the chair being urinated on before?! You'd think they'd have tested it, even just in case! How unfortunate, all those lost chances (however slim) of bringing resolution to this case :sad:

I don't disagree on the direction you are going with Sapp, as I am still on the fence, but I just wanted to point out that he is not actually related to any of these characters. He just happens to share a last name with Lindsy Croslin's (Tommy's wife) grandfather.. But there is no relation. Not that it rules him out as being involved, IMO.
I wish we knew what kinda alibi's these people have allowed LE to rule them out so quickly :confused:
Ah, but he is related and well known. He is related on Misty's side and also on Crystal's side. I'm on my way out for a few hours, but when I return I will find the link for you.

[penny]

I wish Mrs. Sykes had chosen her words more carefully. Somer's family doesn't *have her*. Somer is no longer. Her mom will only have a lock of Somer's hair.

*** It’s really sad and I hate that they found their little girl dead. I really do but they found her. They have her we still don’t have our little girl back we don’t have Haleigh.”
moo

my bold

I am sorry, but I just felt GGS words were horrible. I found them to be very disrespectful in my opinion. I wish that news person would NOT have reported on that. I know it is there job, but I can't imagine how Sommers family will feel when they here those words.

[Elle]

my bold

I am sorry, but I just felt GGS words were horrible. I found them to be very disrespectful in my opinion. I wish that news person would NOT have reported on that. I know it is there job, but I can't imagine how Sommers family will feel when they here those words.

I would think that Somer's family would understand.

imoo

[tia marie]

Ah, but he is related and well known. He is related on Misty's side and also on Crystal's side. I'm on my way out for a few hours, but when I return I will find the link for you.





Sapp, Donald Lee
bd
possibly related in some way to Guy W. Sapp, Raymond Sapp, (which could make Donald related by marriage to Misty Croslin), and possibly related in some way to a Griffis (which could make Donald related by marriage as a maternal cousin to Haleigh Cummings). From Putnam, at one time lived in the same town as Haleigh's mother, Crystal, in Glenn Saint Mary, FL, has also lived in Mcclenny, FL, where some of Crystal's family is from/living. Donald moved to 315 2nd Ave, Satsuma, (which is 3.6 miles from the Cummings home). Is 315 2nd Ave. the same home as 315 Green Lane???? In doing public records search, 315 2nd Ave. comes up as being owned by and having been the residence of Jeffrey Michael Griffis and Billye Lee (Wager?) Griffis. (see http://www1.putnam-fl.com/live/papage.asp?id=8132 ). Jeffrey M. Griffis, age 29, was hit by a car on 1/7/2009 and died the next day. Donald Lee Sapp moved into Jeffrey and Billye's home a few weeks later on 1/26/2009. And a few weeks after that, Haleigh disappeared.
----> Registered Sex Offender, arrested on 6-12-1997 for lewd/lascivious assault on 14 yr old female, occuring in East Palatka. At the time he was already serving probation for a prev. charge of l/l assault on 13 yr old female runaway. In 2000 he was arrested for trying to set up a meeting with a 10 yr old female, on a sting with her father in an internet chatroom. Billye Lee Griffis had testified in Donald's trial in the 1990's. A Raymond Sapp contributed to bail in one of Donald's cases, and Donald is mentioned in Raymond obituary in 2005. Donald is/was married and has four children, according to Raymond Sapp's obituary.
Pic:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee166/benzo_013/sexoffender.jpg


Sapp, Guy W.
bd
possibly related in some way to Donald Lee Sapp, and possibly to Raymond Sapp as well. Possible grandfather of Lindsy Kate Collins Croslin, sister-in-law of Misty Croslin (married to her brother Tommy), property owner in Satsuma, perhaps a Flagler Co. Property Appraiser at one time or employed by them, and according to Lindsy's myspace is very successful, age 78.


Sapp, Peggy Latrelle
bd
possibly related in some way to Guy and Raymond Sapp, possible mother of Lindsy K. Collins Croslin (married to Misty's brother Tommy), married Floyd J. Collins Jr on 5/14/1986 in Flagler Co.


Sapp, Raymond
bd
possibly related in some way to Donald Lee Sapp, and possibly to Guy W. Sapp as well. Raymond contributed to bail in one of Donald's cases, and died in 2005.


Wager, Billye Lee
see Billye Lee Wager Griffis


====================================

KNOWN MYSPACE PAGES:

[penny]

Tim may believe as I do, her body isn't going to be found during a search. If found, it's going to be someone accidentally, or if someone leads LE to it.

Here I go back to that red rose out in the woods, but did TM ever do a search there?..anyone? If not, I wish he would at least do a search in that area. SOMEONE put that rose there and somehow Misty knew that rose was there. I really do think that could mean something.

[SilentSanity]

Ah, but he is related and well known. He is related on Misty's side and also on Crystal's side. I'm on my way out for a few hours, but when I return I will find the link for you.

Geez, don't know how I missed that one! I'd like to know more, so if you can find a credible link to that I'd really appreciate it! I know I've heard of the rumors of him being related to Lindsy, and I know about the Griffis connection that was ruled out, but I've not heard of the Misty relation before! Odd, seeing that her family is not even from FL..Just goes to show it really can be a small world sometimes!

Like I said, his relation does not rule him in/out for me, but the more facts I have when forming my opinions the better. Thanks for the extra information, I'm going to go research it myself now! I'll let you know if I find any connections to help further your theory along :smile:

[SilentSanity]

Sapp, Donald Lee
bd
possibly related in some way to Guy W. Sapp, Raymond Sapp, (which could make Donald related by marriage to Misty Croslin), and possibly related in some way to a Griffis (which could make Donald related by marriage as a maternal cousin to Haleigh Cummings). From Putnam, at one time lived in the same town as Haleigh's mother, Crystal, in Glenn Saint Mary, FL, has also lived in Mcclenny, FL, where some of Crystal's family is from/living. Donald moved to 315 2nd Ave, Satsuma, (which is 3.6 miles from the Cummings home). Is 315 2nd Ave. the same home as 315 Green Lane???? In doing public records search, 315 2nd Ave. comes up as being owned by and having been the residence of Jeffrey Michael Griffis and Billye Lee (Wager?) Griffis. (see http://www1.putnam-fl.com/live/papage.asp?id=8132 ). Jeffrey M. Griffis, age 29, was hit by a car on 1/7/2009 and died the next day. Donald Lee Sapp moved into Jeffrey and Billye's home a few weeks later on 1/26/2009. And a few weeks after that, Haleigh disappeared.
----> Registered Sex Offender, arrested on 6-12-1997 for lewd/lascivious assault on 14 yr old female, occuring in East Palatka. At the time he was already serving probation for a prev. charge of l/l assault on 13 yr old female runaway. In 2000 he was arrested for trying to set up a meeting with a 10 yr old female, on a sting with her father in an internet chatroom. Billye Lee Griffis had testified in Donald's trial in the 1990's. A Raymond Sapp contributed to bail in one of Donald's cases, and Donald is mentioned in Raymond obituary in 2005. Donald is/was married and has four children, according to Raymond Sapp's obituary.
Pic:
http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee166/benzo_013/sexoffender.jpg


Sapp, Guy W.
bd
possibly related in some way to Donald Lee Sapp, and possibly to Raymond Sapp as well. Possible grandfather of Lindsy Kate Collins Croslin, sister-in-law of Misty Croslin (married to her brother Tommy), property owner in Satsuma, perhaps a Flagler Co. Property Appraiser at one time or employed by them, and according to Lindsy's myspace is very successful, age 78.


Sapp, Peggy Latrelle
bd
possibly related in some way to Guy and Raymond Sapp, possible mother of Lindsy K. Collins Croslin (married to Misty's brother Tommy), married Floyd J. Collins Jr on 5/14/1986 in Flagler Co.


Sapp, Raymond
bd
possibly related in some way to Donald Lee Sapp, and possibly to Guy W. Sapp as well. Raymond contributed to bail in one of Donald's cases, and died in 2005.


Wager, Billye Lee
see Billye Lee Wager Griffis


====================================

KNOWN MYSPACE PAGES:




I don't have a link handy at the moment, but I am confident in stating that the relation to Lindsy (thru Grandpa Guy) has been ruled out, as has the Griffis connection. The Croslin connection, however, is a first for me...

But if you want to add a lil more twist to it, I'd suggest going to PC court clerk and reading the entire record of Donald Sapps offense (not the most recent one, the prior one) Take particular note of the witnesses names...interesting indeed, to research some of those names

[tia marie]

I don't have a link handy at the moment, but I am confident in stating that the relation to Lindsy (thru Grandpa Guy) has been ruled out, as has the Griffis connection. The Croslin connection, however, is a first for me...

But if you want to add a lil more twist to it, I'd suggest going to PC court clerk and reading the entire record of Donald Sapps offense (not the most recent one, the prior one) Take particular note of the witnesses names...interesting indeed, to research some of those names

I did explore that awhile ago, but my memory of it as eluded me. When I log back in, I'll give it another whirl. Real life is calling me.

What I find facsinating about Donald is that "pedistrian car accident*. Course it has nothing to do with Haleigh's disappearance but IMO, it seems to be a story of itself to explore.

[penny]

Remember the makeshift chair in the woods - apparently had been urinated on, but did LE attempt to get DNA? NO they did not.

Sapp is related to and familiar to the families. He is a known sex offender.

He was looking for his next victim and we know that because he is in Putnam County jail without bail for recommitting (caught).


The FAs also say Haleigh was raped and murdered and her body was placed in the water.

Long ago I posted my theory about Sapp

Something is amiss with PC LE. I'm not sure what it is, but many of you are saying they dropped the ball and they haven't done a satisfactory job of investigating - until too much evidence disappeared.

Can all of us be wrong?

I am heartsick for the families.

As for Misty - LE could have and should have charged her with neglect. I know, I know some will come out yelling about her age, etc. I don't believe LE is handling her with kid gloves for those reasons. Proof of that is the most recent encounter and no arrest?

I could go on and on for hours about how messed up this case is, but I will stop here. Look forward to comments.

respectfully snipped

just4justice - I enjoyed your complete post but because of the rules I did snip some of it to quote.

I hope you do not mind me asking you some questions or if anyone can help me out I would appreciate it.

I need to brush up my memory on this Donald Sapp guy. I remember his picture well, but I have forgotten a few things.

What was he arrested for this time?..and when?

Which family is he related to?

I had never knew the chair out in the wood had been urinated on, so can you or someone tell me more about that?

I have always felt Haleigh was put in the water and that is why I was so hoping TM/TES would search because of the equipment they have for water searches. I do not know if anyone else has that type of equipment, but at the same time as sad and as hard as it is to type I do worry about the Alligators.

It just hit me, could that be why TM/TES is not searching now because it has been too long to do water searches?

I remember some of the family members having to give DNA samples again, but was there any other evidence lost? I know I was was upset when they lost those samples and also when we heard after ( I have forgotten how many months now) that all the evidence had not even been analyzed yet. I was in SHOCK, when that news came out. So, I agree I am upset with LE today. I do feel they have really messed this case up. I respect LE and I hate to say that, but I can't help the way I feel in this case and that is I feel LE has messed up A LOT in this case.

As I posted already, I am more upset with LE then ever since they did not arrest Misty with the trying to buy drugs incident.

Ok, if you or anyone can help me out with my questions and I am sure my post will have to be snipped also, but I would appreciate the help.

Oh, and Sapp is NOT the guy that was hanging out at the HBCenter was he? I alway's forget that guy's name for some reason.

[Texas48]

Caylee's remains were found in 7 months. Enough to be identified.
This is true tia but..Caylee's little body had been contained(guess that is the word) in a heavy garbage bag which did help...If I remember right the searchers even found some of the smaller bones scattered around and outside of the bag....would that have made a difference..?

[penny]

tia marie

Thank you so much for all of your information on the Sapp family. It was a good read - but, OMG that family has me confused...lol.

Has he been arrested since 2000....anyone?

I took just4justice to mean he has been arrested again since Haleigh disappeared, but maybe I misunderstood just4justice.

At the same time, I am just not convinced that Haleigh was taken by a Sex Offender. As upset as I am with LE, they have always said the sex offenders were cleared. It is the " unknown " sex offenders that concern me.

I just feel like it is someone that knows the family very well or a family member.

[Elle]

I am not sure if this post was directed at me or not, but I did feel GGS was being disrespectful to Sommer's mom and family.

This is how I look at it, at least Haleigh's family has some " HOPE " that Haleigh is alive. Even GGS says she thinks Haleigh is alive. Sommer's mom and family do NOT have any hope left for Sommer now.

I do think Haleigh deserves to be brought home to her family and her family deserves to know what has happened to Haleigh. In fact, I can't imagine the pain when it has been almost 9 months. My heart aches for Haleigh's family, but that does not take away from GGS statement being rude in my opinion.

I just hope we can agree to disagree.

I do understand where you are coming from, I really do, but I really also believe that Somer's family would understand. I didn't take it as rude, I in no way believe her intention was to be rude, but like I said, I do understand where you are coming from.

I have no words adequate that convey the hell I believe all these people are going through.

[5boxersmom]

I don't think that's the case with the photos I have seen.It was an ordinary wooden screen door. Why would one want a storm door in Fla? Its glass that shatters during hurricane season, not to mention, its a rental property. Low maintenence type is what most landlords prefer.

I do not think the door was wooden. I have pics of it on my laptop. Will look later. Maybe Amanda has pics of it on her site. I have seen plenty of storm doors on Fl. homes. I think it was a metal door that you could lift the bottom glass up over the top glass to let air come in the bottom screen.

jmo

[penny]

I do understand where you are coming from, I really do, but I really also believe that Somer's family would understand. I didn't take it as rude, I in no way believe her intention was to be rude, but like I said, I do understand where you are coming from.

I have no words adequate that convey the hell I believe all these people are going through.

Elle, I agree with you on I can't not imagine and I hope and pray I never have to imagine. Both family's hearts have to be just broken and torn in little pieces. My heart really does go out to both family's.

I understand where you are coming from also, because I do know the " not" knowing has to be just horrible, well I don't even have the correct word to describe it.

I am glad even though we may not completely agree at least we can see each others sides.

[deoneta]

I wish Mrs. Sykes had chosen her words more carefully. Somer's family doesn't *have her*. Somer is no longer. Her mom will only have a lock of Somer's hair.

*** It’s really sad and I hate that they found their little girl dead. I really do but they found her. They have her we still don’t have our little girl back we don’t have Haleigh.”


moo

I see nothing hurtful in AS's remarks. Knowing what happened allows the family to grieve and start to recover, as least to the extent that any family can recover from a tragedy like this. Many families endure years of limbo, suffering the loss of a loved one, trying to hang on to a sliver of hope and are never able to to put their loved one to rest.

JMOO

[Texas48]

Was going back and re-reading articles and watching videos on the case...
Came across this one by Lt. Greenwood dated 10/02
Lt. says they are rec. between 10-15 tips a day ..some of those are mostly giving *opinions* some are duplicated.....Sounks like LE really isn't getting much at all as far as leads go....
I did notice a few mistakes by the Lt. that I had not noticed when I first listened....One that stood out was he says LE was notified alittle after 2am that morning HaLeigh went missing...I just thought it was strange...thats just me..LOL.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJzzICI328A

[teresa]

I found Tim's words puzzling. I know he has searched for people in the past who he felt were no longer alive, ie, Natalee Holloway. Why he is abandoning any search for Haleigh leads me to believe is due to the families dissension. I'm disappointed to say the least that his plan to return to Satsuma this month has been shelved.

Hear hear, me too. Natalee was not alive on the bottom of the ocean. Caylee was not alive in the woods months after going missing.

I don't care if he hates Misty's guts or the rest of the family - Haleigh deserves to be found! Crystal met with him just this past weekend. Will he look her in the face and tell her he will only search for children who have a chance to be alive?

That's a flat out lie from what TES does. They searched for many many people in the woods, in the water - does he think he will find an alive person there? What about Haleigh, Tim?? Is she not "cooperating" as you said in that article?

[Texas48]

BBM,\
HenLee,
Not only have we not heard about the landfill being searched, the home wasn't immediately roped off as a crime scene IIRC.
Good point Elyssa..I had forgotten about that..

[teresa]

Could you please explain what you mean by 'consider the source', I want to make sure I understand the intent of your post and not misinterpret it.

Elle, Tim Miller said the same thing in that long live interview on TV when he was there to find Somer and they found her that same day. TES site quotes Tim saying the same thing. The not knowing is worse.

[teresa]

Hi Texas,
Another thing that has always bothered me is this fact that Misty told LE that Haleigh was in her own bed (On the floor.) asleep. In the beginning, I believe LE thought that was a possibility. But yet they NEVER (at least not that we know of) took Haleigh's mattress for DNA testing. Why didn't they ?!?!? Wouldn't that be a given if a child is reportedly stolen out of her bed? :thumbdown:

No link Elyssa, but they did take Haleigh's bed. That was Jr's in the walk throughs, put there to show the distance and how the room was set up the night Haleigh disappeared.

[teresa]

teresa,
Thanks for that information. I didn't know it was ever taken.

You're welcome. I've wondered if LE can tell the blanket wasn't newly washed and that is part of the physical evidence that they say doesn't match Misty's story. I'm don't know that, just guessing.

The only example I've ever heard them give is the door didn't have signs of a break in. We've known that all along so there must be more than that. I wish we knew what other evidence they have that doesn't match.

[penny]

HenLee - Are you talking about ME? If so, please read my post today.

We were discussing FACTS about the Haleigh case and then a poster with ONE post came here to start trouble and you know that.

I simply was ignoring that poster so why are you blaming this on ME?

I don't have a private board like you and your group does.

I am a MEMBER HERE ONLY so WHY would I want this board shut down? Please explain, but before you do maybe you would like to do a search on MY POST today.

Coldwater, I apologize but I ignore two of Henlee's post and I am a MEMBER HERE ONLY so NO I do NOT want the Haleigh thread shut down but I do not like to be talked DOWN to either or made fun of and it is happening here today with the SAME GROUP.

MY strong opinion.

[teresa]

I have company until this evening. Be good guys and I'll see you around 8.

Prayers for little Haleigh. :rose:

[W_D_1]

I see nothing hurtful in AS's remarks. Knowing what happened allows the family to grieve and start to recover, as least to the extent that any family can recover from a tragedy like this. Many families endure years of limbo, suffering the loss of a loved one, trying to hang on to a sliver of hope and are never able to to put their loved one to rest.

JMOO

I agree, there was nothing hurtful or insulting in what Annette Sykes said.

[panman]

I'll come back later, maybe, when the topic returns to Haleigh.
Not penny.

Come home Haleigh, safe and sound.

[FrankieBones1]

You're welcome. I've wondered if LE can tell the blanket wasn't newly washed and that is part of the physical evidence that they say doesn't match Misty's story. I'm don't know that, just guessing.

The only example I've ever heard them give is the door didn't have signs of a break in. We've known that all along so there must be more than that. I wish we knew what other evidence they have that doesn't match.

During the 911 call doesn't Ronald Cummings mention the latch that is turned sideways?

[FrankieBones1]

:glare:I do so hope those of us that want to discuss this case will completely ignore the poster who is IMO attempting to close our board down. If I can do it so can you. Simply do NOT respond to ANY of their post.MOO

Thanks, I'm trying my best this weekend. Let's keep this all about the search for Haleigh. She is the one that is important in all of this. She needs to be found.

:rose:

[ponypal]

Does anyone know if anything will be done for Ron Jr. at Christmastime? I remember reading about a Christmas in july for him and Crystal's children.

[titanfan217]

Here I go back to that red rose out in the woods, but did TM ever do a search there?..anyone? If not, I wish he would at least do a search in that area. SOMEONE put that rose there and somehow Misty knew that rose was there. I really do think that could mean something.

I'm 99% sure they did search near that rose but if they didn't, they had a reason not to.

[Tracian]

I agree, there was nothing hurtful or insulting in what Annette Sykes said.

I also agree. How many times have people said that the hardest thing in not knowing I am not saying finding a child dead is what any family wants; but the not knowing is just torture.

[FrankieBones1]

Does anyone know if anything will be done for Ron Jr. at Christmastime? I remember reading about a Christmas in july for him and Crystal's children.

It might be nice if something was done for all the kids. Ronald Jr., and his step sister. Sorry, her name escapes me. Lord knows how expensive it is these days for toys. We'll all have to keep our eyes opened for that kind of fund raiser. Maybe there's been something set up.

[Clara Harris]

Going to sleep but wanted to add one last thought regarding the light and door

Anyone who wakes up and notices something different ... light on that was off, door wide open that is never used ... what do you do?

Especially home alone?

Panic!

Call 911

Immediately

It could be a home invasion in progress ... life is in danger and the children's

yet you wait?

Makes no sense to me ... and that is why something is not right in this case

And while i always thought the 911 call was odd ... now i am convinced after her "purse snatching" was more emotional than her 911 call that night

I wonder why

No script to follow?

(SHRUG)

Night


Call 911? Your SO regularly comes home in the middle of the night. You wake up from a deep sleep and see a light on. You think the natural instinct is to call 911 before looking to see if your SO is home? Or one of the kids is up? I don't think that it would be my first reactoin to call 911. It seems you would and that is great. I hope you don't judge others just b/c others don't panic as quickly as you do. :ohmy:


Whom do you propose wrote whatever "script" you think was "followed" in the 1st 911? Maybe there is heightened sense of awareness and fear now that HaLeigh is missing? Or could it be the road rage felony that included cuffs and sniffing the ground? Maybe I am not following close enough and the script was in the stole purse.

Where is HaLeigh?

[FrankieBones1]

Call 911? Your SO regularly comes home in the middle of the night. You wake up from a deep sleep and see a light on. You think the natural instinct is to call 911 before looking to see if your SO is home? Or one of the kids is up? I don't think that it would be my first reactoin to call 911. It seems you would and that is great. I hope you don't judge others just b/c others don't panic as quickly as you do. :ohmy:


Whom do you propose wrote whatever "script" you think was "followed" in the 1st 911? Maybe there is heightened sense of awareness and fear now that HaLeigh is missing? Or could it be the road rage felony that included cuffs and sniffing the ground? Maybe I am not following close enough and the script was in the stole purse.

Where is HaLeigh?
It took me awhile to figure out what SO meant.

[panman]

Call 911? Your SO regularly comes home in the middle of the night. You wake up from a deep sleep and see a light on. You think the natural instinct is to call 911 before looking to see if your SO is home? Or one of the kids is up? I don't think that it would be my first reactoin to call 911. It seems you would and that is great. I hope you don't judge others just b/c others don't panic as quickly as you do. :ohmy:


Whom do you propose wrote whatever "script" you think was "followed" in the 1st 911? Maybe there is heightened sense of awareness and fear now that HaLeigh is missing? Or could it be the road rage felony that included cuffs and sniffing the ground? Maybe I am not following close enough and the script was in the stole purse.

Where is HaLeigh?

Casey/script????? IMO, its just bringing the word "script" over from there.

No, I would not have thought the first thing to do would be call 911. The first would be to grab my gun. Then look around. Even in sleep, kids get up and crawl somewhere else.
jmo

[5boxersmom]

I do remember hearing TES was searching a landfill but I can't remember if it was HaLeigh or Caylee case.

[panman]

It might be nice if something was done for all the kids. Ronald Jr., and his step sister. Sorry, her name escapes me. Lord knows how expensive it is these days for toys. We'll all have to keep our eyes opened for that kind of fund raiser. Maybe there's been something set up.

Sorry people, but not me. There are way to many families with kids out there unemployed, losing their homes, etc. I don't believe Jr. or his little relatives will be hurting at Christmas. Hurting for Haleigh, absolutely.
jmo

[AmndaRcknwth]

I do remember hearing TES was searching a landfill but I can't remember if it was HaLeigh or Caylee case.

Putnam county personnel searched the landfill.

TES volunteers searched the "fake rose" area 8/29/09.

[ResJudicata]

It took me awhile to figure out what SO meant.


On another thread I think it means Sex Offender. Thats why I don't like abbreviations.

[ponypal]

Sorry people, but not me. There are way to many families with kids out there unemployed, losing their homes, etc. I don't believe Jr. or his little relatives will be hurting at Christmas. Hurting for Haleigh, absolutely.
jmo

I think some compassion is needed here. I can't see with Ron unemployed and Crystal and her BF probably struggling, that there will be a lot to go around at Christmas.jmo

[panman]

I think some compassion is needed here. I can't see with Ron unemployed and Crystal and her BF probably struggling, that there will be a lot to go around at Christmas.jmo

I have compassion for them because a loved one is missing. But there are way to many in hardship with this economy. I stand by my post.
jmo

[Clara Harris]

What? That she went to bed? Because the bed was made. And if she lied about that why should anything else she said be believed?

FTR...the door was taken on March 11th.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18915206/detail.html



Hiya WD, Thanks for link.


I am still curious, even if no one else is (LOL), how does one determine if a mattress on the floor aka "a bed" is made or not? I am sorry I am so stuck on this detail. I just can't figure out how you make it?

The bed NG showed looked like a top sheet being used as fitted sheet over the mattress. I didn't see a blanket or anything on top of the red bed linen (whatever it was & for lack of a better word) that could have been "made up". You have lots of good observations about this case so TIA for whatever thoughts you have on this :)

[AmndaRcknwth]

Ditto. That little cutie will be showered by Santa and Grandmas.
No worries at all about that.

[FrankieBones1]

Sorry people, but not me. There are way to many families with kids out there unemployed, losing their homes, etc. I don't believe Jr. or his little relatives will be hurting at Christmas. Hurting for Haleigh, absolutely.
jmo

I agree. Not sure what I was thinking. Thanks.

[FrankieBones1]

Ditto. That little cutie will be showered by Santa and Grandmas.
No worries at all about that.

He really is a cute kid. I hope he aspires to be someone special when he grows up.

[FrankieBones1]

Hiya WD, Thanks for link.


I am still curious, even if no one else is (LOL), how does one determine if a mattress on the floor aka "a bed" is made or not? I am sorry I am so stuck on this detail. I just can't figure out how you make it?

The bed NG showed looked like a top sheet being used as fitted sheet over the mattress. I didn't see a blanket or anything on top of the red bed linen (whatever it was & for lack of a better word) that could have been "made up". You have lots of good observations about this case so TIA for whatever thoughts you have on this :)I thought that the photos we got to see were long after police had been there. And the walk through video with Nancy's staff person, that was well afterwards, right?

[5boxersmom]

Putnam county personnel searched the landfill.

TES volunteers searched the "fake rose" area 8/29/09.

Oh okay. I thought TES searched the landfill back in Feb when they were there.

Must have been Caylee care or another case. I have followed way to many.

jmo

[MagicPool]

I thought that the photos we got to see were long after police had been there. And the walk through video with Nancy's staff person, that was well afterwards, right?

I was under the impression it wasn't done until LE had released the home back to RC. Then AS and TN went in a cleaned it up.

JMO

[FrankieBones1]

On another thread I think it means Sex Offender. Thats why I don't like abbreviations.

SH (same here) :tonguewag:
It can get very confusing even when using initials for key players in this case. What do you think happened to Haleigh? Any brainstorming ideas?

[Clara Harris]

I do not think the door was wooden. I have pics of it on my laptop. Will look later. Maybe Amanda has pics of it on her site. I have seen plenty of storm doors on Fl. homes. I think it was a metal door that you could lift the bottom glass up over the top glass to let air come in the bottom screen.

jmo


Not all storm doors have glass. Many less expensive models have plexiglass. We call the screen doors or porch doors. I can think of several other labels for this type of door. However, I don't see anything odd about having one in FL (or anywhere else). Mostly it keeps the bugs out and the daylight in. Sort of a vertical welcome mat.:)

I am certain I have banged thru a screen door or two in the Keys. But maybe they were the exceptions. Does Satsuma even board up during tropical storms?

[FrankieBones1]

I was under the impression it wasn't done until LE had released the home back to RC. Then AS and TN went in a cleaned it up.

JMO

True, Magic. I've never seen any pics that were taken within hours of Haleigh disappearing. Those might have been able to tell us a story. We cannot go by any of the pics that were done after the cleanup.

[Clara Harris]

I thought that the photos we got to see were long after police had been there. And the walk through video with Nancy's staff person, that was well afterwards, right?


I just now wondered for first time if LE took the doors BEFORE the NG show tour and landlord had replaced them. Do we even know if they were the original doors in the NG video?

LE certainly had possessoin of the premises long enough. If the interior was radically different than the night HaLeigh went missing, I am not sure what value it provided to us (as the audience of course LOL).

[Dunlurken]

True, Magic. I've never seen any pics that were taken within hours of Haleigh disappearing. Those might have been able to tell us a story. We cannot go by any of the pics that were done after the cleanup.

We really need those photos, but someone isn't releasing them. LE or prosecution, two different entities. JMO.

[Clara Harris]

It took me awhile to figure out what SO meant.

Ooops. My bad. I meant SO as Significant Other.

20/20 20 minutes later =I guess I should have used Boyfriend/live in/lover/sweetie.

[5boxersmom]

I just now wondered for first time if LE took the doors BEFORE the NG show tour and landlord had replaced them. Do we even know if they were the original doors in the NG video?

LE certainly had possessoin of the premises long enough. If the interior was radically different than the night HaLeigh went missing, I am not sure what value it provided to us (as the audience of course LOL).

No LE came back and got that storm door after the home was released back to Ron. They even showed a pic of the backdoor without the storm door.

jmo

[FrankieBones1]

I just now wondered for first time if LE took the doors BEFORE the NG show tour and landlord had replaced them. Do we even know if they were the original doors in the NG video?

LE certainly had possessoin of the premises long enough. If the interior was radically different than the night HaLeigh went missing, I am not sure what value it provided to us (as the audience of course LOL).

Maybe what Nancy wanted us to see was the layout of the home and not so much what was inside the home as for furniture and 'things'.

It is quite possible both doors were taken and then replaced before the show. LE hasn't really told us much.

[Texas48]

During the 911 call doesn't Ronald Cummings mention the latch that is turned sideways?
Yes Franki..that is where it was said..

[Texas48]

Thanks, I'm trying my best this weekend. Let's keep this all about the search for Haleigh. She is the one that is important in all of this. She needs to be found.

:rose:
Trying my very best Dear...was trying my hardest to get some discussion going and was working out pretty good................
OK...back on track...It kinda threw me when the latch was mentioned on the 911 call and I will admit I missed it the first 10 times I played it........so..if the latch was sideways that means it was left that way(unlocked) or....someone had a key...right?

[FrankieBones1]

We really need those photos, but someone isn't releasing them. LE or prosecution, two different entities. JMO.

And did they really take pics?

[FrankieBones1]

Trying my very best Dear...was trying my hardest to get some discussion going and was working out pretty good................
OK...back on track...It kinda threw me when the latch was mentioned on the 911 call and I will admit I missed it the first 10 times I played it........so..if the latch was sideways that means it was left that way(unlocked) or....someone had a key...right?

Yes, that could be it. It's very easy to leave a door unlocked by mistake. Were the keys and the amount of keys mentioned?

[Texas48]

Yes, that could be it. It's very easy to leave a door unlocked by mistake. Were the keys and the amount of keys mentioned?
Have never heard Franki...Ron says over and over he/they never unlock the laundry room door...they never use it and he ALWAYS makes certain its locked.....he even went into detail that when he moved in there he installed a deadbolt lock that was high enough HaLeigh couldn't reach it..(from me looking at it she WOULD have been able to reach it).......he just seemed..how do I say it.......he seemed like he was being careful as far as security goes...making sure that door was locked...it was just the way he kept saying it...and IMO..anyone can make a mistake and leave a door unlocked....I often wondered IF Misty had a key to any of the doors..?

[Texas48]

I believe the door may have been left unlocked after it was used by the AC repairman. JMO
Those have always been my thoughts as well HenLee

[Texas48]

In case anyone missed this article this am..

Searcher convinced Haleigh dead

http://www.palatkadailynews.com/articles/2009/10/24/news/news01.txt

[Texas48]

Doing alot of *back* reading I found that I had missed this tid bit...

MISTY TO TAKE OFF THE GLOVES:

http://www.artharris.com/feed/

[ponypal]

I agree. Not sure what I was thinking. Thanks.

I think you were thinking with your heart. While times are tough everywhere, surely children in these circumstances deserves a bit more.

[panman]

I think you were thinking with your heart. While times are tough everywhere, surely children in these circumstances deserves a bit more.

Then please, give till your heart is content. Will you be giving to other missing kids family members? Just trying to understand.

[titanfan217]

Does anyone know if anything will be done for Ron Jr. at Christmastime? I remember reading about a Christmas in july for him and Crystal's children.

Unfortunately, that was twisted and turned into something that it wasn't, and I'm not sure it ever happened.

[titanfan217]

I think some compassion is needed here. I can't see with Ron unemployed and Crystal and her BF probably struggling, that there will be a lot to go around at Christmas.jmo

Unfortunately, this is probably the wrong place to discuss it, and not against you. It's a personal decision and maybe should stay that way.

[baywench]

Oh my I have been reading for 7 pages and I just want to scream. I can't believe how easy it is to be implicated in this case or criticized by posters who have NO IDEA what really happened. Here are some of my thoughts.

Psychics almost always say a body will be near water. I have not lost enough faith in LE to go to the charts yet.

Tommy may have given Misty drugs to make her sleep? What? Tommy is not implicated in this last time I looked. God forbid he was telling the truth about going over there and knocking, now he is the perp?

Ms. Sykes was obviously referring to the peace of mind that the Somers family will feel having a place to mourn her. What else could she have meant?

We need photos of the doors and trailer? We need them? What LE releases crime scene photos before there is an arrest or indictment? They are not just trying to make us mad.

These cases are all different. The problem is we don't know what LE has or hasn't done because they have not released it. In the meantime, I am willing to bet they know just a little more than we do and guess what? Misty is the one they are looking at.

It does not matter one bit whether one parent or two show up on TV show. Immediate implication that Crystal is somehow slighted. Could it be that one parent was enough to get the information out there and it was necessary for her to participate?

The sex offender who urinated a chair that LE did not check? How do you know that it was not checked? If it was that easy and we amateur sleuths can get information I'll just bet LE can too. Perhaps nothing came of their investigations into the SO.

Is this Jump to Huge Conclusion Night and no one told me? I am all for discussing the case but if you go back and read this thread in its entirety it is quite a stretch. LE didn't check this, yes they did, Link please, link provided, Oh ok. I think I'll bet on LE to solve this and not us. IMO it will be a very simple, very horrible conclusion. jmo

[baywench]

Unfortunately, this is probably the wrong place to discuss it, and not against you. It's a personal decision and maybe should stay that way.


I agree with you Titan. So many people have done such astounding things after experiencing terrible tragedy. Some people do astounding things against impossible odds everyday. Single mothers taking care of their famililes, volunteers, any family member that takes care of another and it goes on. Tragedy does not give you a pass to never work another day in your life or better yourself in some way. I hope that Ron will be able to turn this around some day. jmo

[CANDYKISSES]

The sex offender who urinated a chair that LE did not check? How do you know that it was not checked? If it was that easy and we amateur sleuths can get information I'll just bet LE can too. Perhaps nothing came of their investigations into the SO.


:ohmy:A SEX OFFENDER URINATED A CHAIR? :ohmy:

:w00t:

[baywench]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and post a couple of reminders.
Donald Sapp lived about 3 miles from Hermits Cove by automobile. Through the woods it was 1 mile.
Remember the makeshift chair in the woods - apparently had been urinated on, but did LE attempt to get DNA? NO they did not.
Sapp is related to and familiar to the families. He is a known sex offender.
He was looking for his next victim and we know that because he is in Putnam County jail without bail for recommitting (caught). LE interviewed him early on and dismissed him as the perp.
I have been reading a lot of charts by forensic astrologists. They were SPOT ON in the Caylee Anthony case. In their charts, Sapp is an excellent possibility as being the perpetrator in the Haleigh case. I know a lot of you will pooh pooh forensic astrology. I feel it has reasonable basis and many proven predictions.
The FAs also say Haleigh was raped and murdered and her body was placed in the water.
Long ago I posted my theory about Sapp (long before I read the astrology stuff)and I'm sure LE has read the FAs. Did they give it enough credence to check early on when there would have still been evidence? I doubt it. If they had the case may very well have been solved. Something is amiss with PC LE. I'm not sure what it is, but many of you are saying they dropped the ball and they haven't done a satisfactory job of investigating - until too much evidence disappeared.
Can all of us be wrong?
I hope this board stays live to keep Haleigh's name out there, but resolution is doubtful.
I am heartsick for the families.
As for Misty - she is a lost soul and will never amount to a hill of beans. She will live a life of drugs, sex and crime and Ron is well to be rid of her. Clearly, she wasn't at home the night Haleigh went missing. Sadly, eyewitnesses haven't come to LE with that info. LE could have and should have charged her with neglect. I know, I know some will come out yelling about her age, etc. I don't believe LE is handling her with kid gloves for those reasons. Proof of that is the most recent encounter and no arrest? It appears because of her reputation she will now be a target for muggers whenever she tries to buy drugs. IDK.
I could go on and on for hours about how messed up this case is, but I will stop here. Look forward to comments.


CandyKisses,

This is one I was responding to regarding the chair that was urinated on. jmo

[FoxySly]

I have compassion for them because a loved one is missing. But there are way to many in hardship with this economy. I stand by my post.
jmo

I agree also. But I will not be surprised if crystal does something for donations as she did at the very start of this case, her site was asking for money for her & clothes & such for her new baby.
Again this IMO begging was at the very start of this case.

It made me think... was her new baby clothes less & in need of every day items when HaLeigh first went missing??? If not why was she asking at the very start of HaLeigh missing???

That I have never understood, but there is was front page of her new site asap.

Sly

~

[Clara Harris]

In case anyone missed this article this am..

Searcher convinced Haleigh dead

http://www.palatkadailynews.com/articles/2009/10/24/news/news01.txt


I am just stunned by the comments from TM/TE.

Just last week, TM proclaimed he would do whatever it took to find HaLeigh.

From your link:
"In no way possible do I believe Haleigh is alive," Miller said. "Haleigh's going to be just as deceased tomorrow as she is today, or next week as she was six months ago, bottom line. And I hope I'm wrong about that. But let's try to save the ones that just disappeared or that we have leads on, with people that are cooperating, rather than fighting with these families."


From last week:
This was not about media attention. Again, as I have said many times, I will use whatever resources that are at my disposal to find Haleigh.

http://texasequusearch.org/


From last February 20th, a mere +8 months ago:
Cummings made a plea to Texas Equusearch to continue its efforts to find his daughter.

"This is my child. I don't think anybody else should give up. If I was searching for somebody else's child I wouldn't give up," Cummings told News 13.

Cummings pulled Miller aside to plead for his team to stay, but in the end, Miller told him that he had to leave.

"He was begging for us to stay. But I explained to him that we have other cases. Let's move forward and if something comes up, we'll come back," Miller said.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2009/2/16/amber_alert_ground_search_for_haleigh_to_end_monda y.html


Does anyone know why TM goes from one end of the spectrum to the other like this?

He also went from * I am grandpa fig to MC * to *I am investigator and we gave MC LDT and Voice test and tried to hypnotize her and the results are she failed miserably* to *Misty destroys everything in her wake* to *I was just trying to remove MC from a volatile situation* (All my paraphrases of his comments since reappeariing in August and leaving Ron begging in Feb.)


What changed from Feb to Aug for TM to leave then reenter the search?

What changed from last week to this that TM has defended his search and seemingly re-exited the search?


Most importantly, Where is HaLeigh?:rose:
JMT&OO

[baywench]

I am just stunned by the comments from TM/TE.

Just last week, TM proclaimed he would do whatever it took to find HaLeigh.

From your link:



From last week:


http://texasequusearch.org/


From last February 20th, a mere +8 months ago:


http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2009/2/16/amber_alert_ground_search_for_haleigh_to_end_monda y.html


Does anyone know why TM goes from one end of the spectrum to the other like this?

He also went from * I am grandpa fig to MC * to *I am investigator and we gave MC LDT and Voice test and tried to hypnotize her and the results are she failed miserably* to *Misty destroys everything in her wake* to *I was just trying to remove MC from a volatile situation* (All my paraphrases of his comments since reappeariing in August and leaving Ron begging in Feb.)


What changed from Feb to Aug for TM to leave then reenter the search?

What changed from last week to this that TM has defended his search and seemingly re-exited the search?


Most importantly, Where is HaLeigh?:rose:
JMT&OO

I guess the same reason any of us do. The circumstances change or frustration takes over and you vent. He was called back by TN. When he went back he discovered Misty was a liar and after she tried to throw him under the bus, he said she destroyed everything in her wake. IIRC he stated she thought of him as a grandfather. Where is haleigh at the end of most posts is a rhetorical question I guess since no one is really expecting the answer. jmo

[tia marie]

No link Elyssa, but they did take Haleigh's bed. That was Jr's in the walk throughs, put there to show the distance and how the room was set up the night Haleigh disappeared.

Teresa

I hope your back

You have posted often that LE took Haleigh's bed, but yet I have never seen anything from LE that states that as a fact. I would appreciate you posting where you arrive at this.

[Clara Harris]

Oh my I have been reading for 7 pages and I just want to scream. I can't believe how easy it is to be implicated in this case or criticized by posters who have NO IDEA what really happened. Here are some of my thoughts.

Psychics almost always say a body will be near water. I have not lost enough faith in LE to go to the charts yet.

Personally, I think the one psychic that seen the body of water AND leaves on the ground around it + a dirt road that leads to it off the paved road with woods on both sides is durn good.


Tommy may have given Misty drugs to make her sleep? What? Tommy is not implicated in this last time I looked. God forbid he was telling the truth about going over there and knocking, now he is the perp?

I am learning disabled and sometimes get things backwards but I was thinking it's entirely possible Misty had too many drugs over the previous weekend and went into a deep sleep all on her own. IF so, she might not have heard Tommy- or St. Peter - or the perp - knocking at the door.

Last time I looked, no one was implicated. At least by LE

Ms. Sykes was obviously referring to the peace of mind that the Somers family will feel having a place to mourn her. What else could she have meant?

I don't read anything else. But I have learned to TRY and be semi-careful what I ask for around here. IYKWIM


We need photos of the doors and trailer? We need them? What LE releases crime scene photos before there is an arrest or indictment? They are not just trying to make us mad.
I can't believe the things I have read that "WE" need. When I questioned, the replies led to believe that "WE" were going to solved case. Are you saying that "WE" might not? :shrug:


These cases are all different. The problem is we don't know what LE has or hasn't done because they have not released it. In the meantime, I am willing to bet they know just a little more than we do and guess what? Misty is the one they are looking at.

It does not matter one bit whether one parent or two show up on TV show. Immediate implication that Crystal is somehow slighted. Could it be that one parent was enough to get the information out there and it was necessary for her to participate?

The sex offender who urinated a chair that LE did not check? How do you know that it was not checked? If it was that easy and we amateur sleuths can get information I'll just bet LE can too. Perhaps nothing came of their investigations into the SO.

Is this Jump to Huge Conclusion Night and no one told me?

IDK. Is tonight different from other nights? If not, yes it is. JMT&OO

I am all for discussing the case but if you go back and read this thread in its entirety it is quite a stretch. LE didn't check this, yes they did, Link please, link provided, Oh ok. I think I'll bet on LE to solve this and not us. IMO it will be a very simple, very horrible conclusion. jmo

My responses in color above.

BTW Hope you are having a great wknd, baywench

[Texas48]

Didn't mean to get your blood pressure up Clara...Post 272...
I found TM's comments rather strange as well and what went through my mind was that this case may very well be taking its toll on Tim...that and along with all he has been through in his life but still does not excuse some of the comments...IMO.
In stead of JUST saying *anything* to the media it may have been better JUST to have said nothing...
I do hope Tim will do another seardh for this baby girl....someone needs to bring her home..At this point I could care less WHO DONE IT...this little girl needs to be found..one way or the other..
JMO

[Texas48]

Teresa

I hope your back

You have posted often that LE took Haleigh's bed, but yet I have never seen anything from LE that states that as a fact. I would appreciate you posting where you arrive at this.
Tia..do you recall seeing LE take the little mattress out of the trailer??
I have racked my brain (loosing battle) and I just can't remember...The media was pretty much covering everything at that point in the case..wouldn't we have seen it..?

[baywench]

My responses in color above.

BTW Hope you are having a great wknd, baywench

LOL - did you think I am a bit cranky Clara? Quite possible but today this all just got to me. I loved your answers even if you didn't agree with me! I will be off tomorrow and THEN I will be having a great weekend. jmo

[Clara Harris]

I guess the same reason any of us do. The circumstances change or frustration takes over and you vent. He was called back by TN. When he went back he discovered Misty was a liar and after she tried to throw him under the bus, he said she destroyed everything in her wake. IIRC he stated she thought of him as a grandfather. Where is haleigh at the end of most posts is a rhetorical question I guess since no one is really expecting the answer. jmo

I don't see that with TM. He makes some very strong statements that contradicting and conflicting. I know you love TM and I respect that.

Do you honestly believe that he left RC begging him to stay in Feb and all there is to his reappearance in August is a TN voice mail (possibly edited and then publically released?) Misty was called a liar back in Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun and July. Why would that change in August just because TM showed up doing things out of the ordinary for his SAR, TexasEquisearch?

I guess I put Where is HaLeigh? at the end of my posts because NONE of the outlandish efforts by TE/TM, Cobra, KP, mystery letter deliverers, psychic tips or anyone else have provided one iota of information that brings us closer to finding HaLeigh.

If it is okay to discuss every minute detail of every player's actions, I figured it might be okay to ask "Where is HaLeigh" simply as a reminder that none of these crazy theories or the clowns that present them, have the answer.

IF one is okay with Tim Miller's tactics, or anyone else's, fine. If one isn't okay with the "rhetorical question," should it be asked or posted?

JMT&OO

Where is HaLeigh?

[teresa]

Trying my very best Dear...was trying my hardest to get some discussion going and was working out pretty good................
OK...back on track...It kinda threw me when the latch was mentioned on the 911 call and I will admit I missed it the first 10 times I played it........so..if the latch was sideways that means it was left that way(unlocked) or....someone had a key...right?

Oh my doors, it means the deadbolt is in the locked position even if the door isn't closed. Since the door wasn't shut, I don't know why Ron would have even commented on it if it was in the normal unlocked position. It would only look strange if it was open but the lock still engaged, right?

I swear, I'm going to have my husband lock bump my door and see if the lock springs back out after you get the door open. Do I need a special key to do that, if you know? And where would I buy a key to break into a house if it does require a special key??