Elizabeth Olten murdered by 15 yo

[darcie]

Mo. girl, 9, missing after visiting friend
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/3C802DBBD97162DA86257657003E0667?OpenDocument
ST. MARTINS, Mo. — Cole County authorities are looking for a 9-year-old girl who did not return home after visiting a friend.

Cole County Sheriff Greg White says Elizabeth Olten did not arrive home Wednesday evening after leaving a friend's home about 6:15 p.m. She was supposed to walk a quarter mile to her home on Route D near St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.
Her family called police when she had not arrived by 7 p.m.

A Cole County sheriff's deputy says the search was scheduled to resume early Thursday.

The Jefferson City News-Tribune reports that the girl's family members said she is afraid of the woods and the dark, so she wouldn't be out at night.

Elizabeth Olten has long brown hair and was last seen wearing a pink sweater, T-shirt, blue jeans and white shoes

----

Another child gone in a blink of an eye. May God be protecting her.

[tarabull1]

SNIPPED...She was supposed to walk a quarter mile to her home on Route D near St. Martins, just west of Jefferson City.

WHEN oh WHEN are PEOPLE going to learn!???!

There are people watching & waiting for kids left alone!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why didn't you pick her up?????????? Why didn't you WALK and meet her at the very least?!?!?!?

:cursing:

[n/t]

Not another one? I hope they find her safe. Please please God:crying:

[darcie]

Cole County Authorities Searching For Missing 9-year-old Girl
http://www.fox2now.com/ktvi-cole-county-missing-olten-elizabeth-102209,0,89862.story

9-year-old Missouri girl reported missing
http://www.kspr.com/news/local/65509342.html

Police searching for missing 9-year-old
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=366189

Note: no Amber Alert has been issued

[darcie]

I hate to say that this doesn't look so good this morning. It's raining in Missouri, some parts getting heavy rain. St. Martins in Close to US highway 50.

I am posting a map. I hope it works. I am unsure of where the girl lived, I am assuming on Route D?


http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=St.+martins+MO&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Saint+Martins,+MO&gl=us&ei=p17gSpGlJaGqtgfi_IAP&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CBAQ8gEwAA

But here is another article:

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/22/breaking_news/doc4adfc3af00522694256245.txt

*snipped*
Neighbors told reporters that Olten, who attends Pioneer Trail Elementary in Apache Flats, knows the area, and they didn't believe she would simply wander off.

Family members told reporters that Elizabeth is afraid of the woods as well as the dark so she wouldn't be out at night.

Authorities got the call from Elizabeth's family around 7 p.m. and they along with their neighbors began searching nearby yards, fields and ditches using flashlights to help guide their way.

A command post was set up at Xtreme Body and Paint, near the girl's home, and approximately 50 members of various law enforcement and emergency response agencies came to the scene.

Some of the members stayed with the mobile command unit at the post while the rest were sent out to search on foot in an area approximately half-a-mile by half-a-mile in size. Some of these members also carried mobile infra-red units to try to find any heat signatures in the woods.

Later in the evening, a Missouri Highway Patrol helicopter, also equipped with infra-red equipment, searched the area.
---

[darcie]

If you use the map posted at the link above...if you go east...there is a Lake. Binder Lake and State Park. Close and convenient I guess you could say (although it disgusts me to say it).

[n/t]

No it doesn't sound good at all, darcie. :crying:

[BevAnn]

KUDOS for getting the infrared devices out so soon - even if she had been....murdered (oh LordI hate to type that) her body would still be warm for awhile, and they could pick her up maybe.

That being said, the fact that they DIDN"T find her using that, isn't so good either. Someone may have put her in a car and completely left the area. :sad:

*sigh*

My 14 yr old walks across the street to his friends house some times - geezz...I'm afraid to even let him do that now. :unsure:

[tarabull1]

It's being reported that she left to walk home from her friends at 6:15pm....

The report also says she was afraid of the dark.

Sunset last night in Jefferson City, MI was 6:21pm.

[Nascargal]

Oh Gord Lord not another Missing child:sad:

[n/t]

It's being reported that she left to walk home from her friends at 6:15pm....

The report also says she was afraid of the dark.

Sunset last night in Jefferson City, MI was 6:21pm.

How far/close was the walk home?

[BevAnn]

n/t, first post, says approx 1/4 mile. :sad:

[darcie]

Zip code for St. Martins is 65109. Jefferson City is awfully close, and the areas are covered with Sex Offenders. Actually, one in St Martins probably 1/4 mile from where she was abducted. WIth the highway right there...it's just hard to guess what happened to this poor girl.

http://www.mshp.dps.mo.gov/CJ38/searchRegistry.jsp

If you look at the map, you need to go West to see St. Martins, and Route D

[chrissy07]

St. Martins girl went missing coming home from friend's house

Wednesday, October 21, 2009 at 10:53 p.m.


ST. MARTINS -- UPDATE: Thursday 10:41 am:

KRCG news has learned that missing 9 year-old Elizabeth Olten had a cell phone on her when she she disappeared.

She sheriff's department contacted the cell phone provider, AT&T, who "pinged" the cell phone to triangulate its location.

AT&T put the cell phone's location deep in the woods near Elizabeth's home. The family says Elizabeth would not have been walking in the woods to get home from her friend's house.
There are only four homes between the friends house and Elizabeth's, and the family says she normally walked near the road.

AT&T says the cell phone is not responding to pings anymore and probably ran out of batteries, the phone company says it will continue to monitor the phone in case it turns back on.


UPDATE: Thursday 9:35 am:

The Cole County Sheriff tells reporters they could use more volunteers in the search for a missing girl.

During a 9am press conference Monday Sheriff Greg White said anyone interested in helping search for Elizabeth Olten should come to the St. Martins' VFW or call the sheriff's department at 573-634-9160.

White says the rain is making for a difficult search and that they are currently using search dogs and are considering using a helicopter.

White told reporters that Olten is not a runaway and that an Amber Alert could be issued later today.

Authorities are currently contacting registered sex offenders in the surrounding areas.


Original Story: Wed. 10:00 pm:

Police are searching for a missing 9-year-old St. Martins girl.

Elizabeth Olten was last seen around 6:15 p.m. coming back from a friend's house, a quarter mile from her own home, according to Cole County Sheriff Greg White.

A family member says Elizabeth was last seen around 5:15 p.m. walking on Route D. She was returning home but never showed up.

Search teams are using flashlights to comb the area. Elizabeth was last seen wearing a pink sweater over a T-shirt with butterflies when she disappeared. She was also wearing blue jeans and white sneakers.

Police are searching and have a search team assembled at the Extreme Body and Paint shop where they have been since 7:30 p.m.

So far the highway patrol has not issued an Amber Alert.

No other details are available as of 10:20 p.m., when White confirmed crews were still searching for the missing girl.

[n/t]

Oh noo...the cell phone pinging deep in the woods is not good. :crying:

Thanks for the updates Crissy

[chrissy07]

Your welcome. This is in my neighborhood, it is really scary!!

[darcie]

Awwww geeeez.....Thanks for keeping us updated Chrissy. I have been seraching for more info, but things are kinda dead on the interenet until the noon hour I suppose.

I hope they find her soon. This weather isnt helping any, that is for sure.

[BevAnn]

I know n/t- I started groaning at my desk when I read that about the phone. I can't take another one today...after the one yesterday. :crying:

[lune3]

Oh dear Lord, what is happening with these little girls vanishing...it's horrible.. please let there be an explanation, Elizabeth is hurt, took refuge..anything other than the unthinkable. The ping "deep in the woods" does not sound good though. Please, at the least, let her be found alive today. My heart goes out to her family.

[chrissy07]

AMBER ALERT- A 9 year old girl named Elizabeth went missing last night. She was last seen walking on Route D in St. Martin's. She was last scene wearing blue jeans, a pink sweatshirt with a shirt underneath with butterflies on it and a pair of white tennis shoes. Brown hair, brown eyes and 5'5'.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

[chrissy07]

Amber Alert has been issued. Here is the poster from the MSHP.

http://www.mshp.dps.mo.gov/MSHPWeb/mpphotos/A1001001A09J22A75130G327641.pdf

[darcie]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MO_MISSING_GIRL_MO_MOOL-?SITE=MOSTP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Search under way for 9-year-old mid-Missouri girl

Onna Adrian, whose daughter-in-law is Elizabeth's older sister, said Elizabeth generally walked home from the friend's house through neighbors' yards rather than along the two-lane county highway that runs past their houses.

Adrian said Elizabeth did not normally hide out and, if confronted, would have screamed and tried to run away.

"She is very shy," Adrian said. "She's not the type to get in a vehicle with anybody."

Elizabeth, who has long brown hair and brown eyes, is about 5-feet, 2-inches tall and weighs 102 pounds. She was last seen wearing a pink scarf, sweater and T-shirt with butterflies, blue jeans and white shoes.

Adrian said the girl's mother did not want to talk to a reporter Thursday. Elizabeth's father, Dale Olten Sr., has been in a Missouri prison since April serving a four-year sentence for drug possession.


-----

Gee...I knew that last name sounded familiar but i couldn't place it. I am from Missouri and there WAS another missing woman, and I think Elizabeth's Dad, Dale Olten is a suspect in her disapperance.

Here is a link:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=303294


And Dale has a record a mile long. Just type his name in......
https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchCases.do?searchType=name

---
The mother is going to have to put all the other stuff behind her, and speak out for this poor girl!....just MOO.

[darcie]

Here is another map, with the Street View. Maybe Chrissy can help us find where Elizabeth actually was heading/going.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=St.+martins+MO+Map&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Saint+Martins,+MO&gl=us&ei=kKrgSv-EKoaj8Ab0n7Vf&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ8gEwAA


Oops,,,the link won't post the street view. You just have to keep clicking on the map (on route D) and it will eventually go to street view. sorry about that
I read a link that had an adress earlier, I can't seem to find it now though. If i do, I can update it better. But this map will give you a feel for the area. Looks very rural, lots of places off the road that would be unseen by passerby's. :thumbdown:

[n/t]

Oh wow. I wonder if there's a connection? :sad:

[moonlite]

Not another one? I hope they find her safe. Please please God:crying:

Greetings'
N/T'

I agree with you!! I really hope this little girl is found safe and sound.

Moonlite

[darcie]

Oh wow. I wonder if there's a connection? :sad:

hey there n/t. I am hoping it is just a coincidence......I debated about even posting the link

Elizabeth is what is important, not her dad and his past. But ya never know. It MIGHT have something to do with her.

MOO

[jewel6]

Please parents pick your children up! I cant stand this. This world is getting very dangerous! just awful!!! :sad:

[watson]

5'2" and 102 pounds is quite large for a 9 year old. Not sure that's relevant but it wouldn't necessarily point to a pedophile (having taken her) if she looked like an adult from behind.

It's perplexing that the cell phone pinged from deep in the forest, doesn't make sense. Wouldn't a dog be able to track that scent and find the phone?

I would think the only reason the phone is deep in the woods is that whoever "took" her didn't have a car and the phone is with her. She seems large to drag into the woods. Or, the phone was placed there to throw the searchers off. Are there roads leading into the woods?

I can't imagine an animal taking a cell phone.

I guess I just have a lot of questions.

[GentleBreeze]

5'2" and 102 pounds is quite large for a 9 year old. Not sure that's relevant but it wouldn't necessarily point to a pedophile (having taken her) if she looked like an adult from behind.

It's perplexing that the cell phone pinged from deep in the forest, doesn't make sense. Wouldn't a dog be able to track that scent and find the phone?

I would think the only reason the phone is deep in the woods is that whoever "took" her didn't have a car and the phone is with her. She seems large to drag into the woods. Or, the phone was placed there to throw the searchers off. Are there roads leading into the woods?

I can't imagine an animal taking a cell phone.

I guess I just have a lot of questions.

No matter her age if she weighed only 102 pounds a predator could easily manage to control her. And we do not know if the person that took her came upon her from her front side and knew she was a child. They may have already been watching Elizabeth for days to learn her habits or he may even live close by.

I think they most likely will find Elizabeth deep in the wooded area where her cell phone pinged. It is treacherous terrain so it will take them awhile to search. I do not feel Elizabeth is alive but I sure would love to be wrong though.

If she was taken by a predator he may have thought the wooded area would be the best place to take her rather than to his home.

It is so sad to see that children cannot go anywhere by themselves these days and really be safe.

imo

[omsk99]

What is going on??! One child is snatched or murdered right after another! :angry:

A new picture of Elizabeth which I haven't seen in the other articles:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/22/crimesider/entry5409548.shtml

"But Elizabeth Olten's case seems to mirror that of a missing 10-year-old Washington girl named Lindsey Baum. Lindsey Baum was walking home from a friend's house -- a distance of about about a quarter mile or so -- when she disappeared in late June. Police have reported that at least one witness saw the girl walking home, but a surveillance camera at a local gas station she would have passed showed no image of her."

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2314355/elizabeth_olten_is_missing_9yearold.html?cat=9

In the second articles, they mention Somer's case in addition to Lindsey's disappearance... I hope this case has a better outcome than those two :rose:

[watson]

No matter her age if she weighed only 102 pounds a predator could easily manage to control her. And we do not know if the person that took her came upon her from her front side and knew she was a child. They may have already been watching Elizabeth for days to learn her habits or he may even live close by.

I think they most likely will find Elizabeth deep in the wooded area where her cell phone pinged. It is treacherous terrain so it will take them awhile to search. I do not feel Elizabeth is alive but I sure would love to be wrong though.

If she was taken by a predator he may have thought the wooded area would be the best place to take her rather than to his home.

It is so sad to see that children cannot go anywhere by themselves these days and really be safe.

imo

Yes, I was just posting my ideas and feelings just like you did. I have no idea what the terrain is there, I wonder about roads and yes, the predator could have easily controlled her especially if he/she had a weapon. And if she was taken deep into the woods I would think a vehicle was involved which brings me back to the question of roads. Surely they "mapped" where that signal ping originated so again, I wonder if a dog could locate it.

A dog probably couldn't track the smell of the cell phone/child if it wasn't "trackable" meaning that the cell phone and the child were transported in a vehicle.

How accurate can they map the location of a ping? Within 500 feet, a mile?

And then again, a sniffer dog may prove helpful now. :sad:

[darcie]

http://www.amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=68930

*snipped*

The distance between the two houses was less than a quarter mile. Though Olten's walk should have taken no more than ten minutes, her parents knew something was awry when she failed to return home in a reasonable amount of time.

Less than 45 minutes after Elizabeth left her friend's house, her parents were on the phone with police, reporting her missing.

Immediately, cops, firefighters, and volunteers blanketed the area, hoping to find little Elizabeth safe from harm. They say she disappeared somewhere in the area near Hwy. 50, between the 600 block of Rte. D and the 200 block of Rte. D.

Though rain poured from the skies above, that didn't stop authorities from using a helicopter to find the girl, nor did it prevent searchers from working steadfastly through the night.



As a precautionary measure, investigators have questioned numerous sex offenders in the area, and have looked in the nearby woods and waterways for any sign of the young girl.

Though there seems to be no trace of Elizabeth in the area, cops have publicly stated that foul play is not suspected in her disappearance.
-----



Where in the world do they think a 9 year old would go by herself, in the rain?

It has been raining all day. Cold, slow, falling rain. I pray this young one is ok......

[desmom]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MO_MISSING_GIRL_MO_MOOL-?SITE=MOSTP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Search under way for 9-year-old mid-Missouri girl

Onna Adrian, whose daughter-in-law is Elizabeth's older sister, said Elizabeth generally walked home from the friend's house through neighbors' yards rather than along the two-lane county highway that runs past their houses.

Adrian said Elizabeth did not normally hide out and, if confronted, would have screamed and tried to run away.

"She is very shy," Adrian said. "She's not the type to get in a vehicle with anybody."

Elizabeth, who has long brown hair and brown eyes, is about 5-feet, 2-inches tall and weighs 102 pounds. She was last seen wearing a pink scarf, sweater and T-shirt with butterflies, blue jeans and white shoes.

Adrian said the girl's mother did not want to talk to a reporter Thursday. Elizabeth's father, Dale Olten Sr., has been in a Missouri prison since April serving a four-year sentence for drug possession.


-----

Gee...I knew that last name sounded familiar but i couldn't place it. I am from Missouri and there WAS another missing woman, and I think Elizabeth's Dad, Dale Olten is a suspect in her disapperance.

Here is a link:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=303294


And Dale has a record a mile long. Just type his name in......
https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/searchCases.do?searchType=name

---
The mother is going to have to put all the other stuff behind her, and speak out for this poor girl!....just MOO.

That is eerie. jmo

[n/t]

http://www.amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=68930

*snipped*

The distance between the two houses was less than a quarter mile. Though Olten's walk should have taken no more than ten minutes, her parents knew something was awry when she failed to return home in a reasonable amount of time.

Less than 45 minutes after Elizabeth left her friend's house, her parents were on the phone with police, reporting her missing.

Immediately, cops, firefighters, and volunteers blanketed the area, hoping to find little Elizabeth safe from harm. They say she disappeared somewhere in the area near Hwy. 50, between the 600 block of Rte. D and the 200 block of Rte. D.

Though rain poured from the skies above, that didn't stop authorities from using a helicopter to find the girl, nor did it prevent searchers from working steadfastly through the night.



As a precautionary measure, investigators have questioned numerous sex offenders in the area, and have looked in the nearby woods and waterways for any sign of the young girl.

Though there seems to be no trace of Elizabeth in the area, cops have publicly stated that foul play is not suspected in her disappearance.
-----



Where in the world do they think a 9 year old would go by herself, in the rain?

It has been raining all day. Cold, slow, falling rain. I pray this young one is ok......

We hear that statement over and over again. I must've posted my frustrations at least 1000 times at how frustrated I am when they say stupid things like no foul play is suspected or they can't rule out that the child ran away. WTH is it going to take for them to start taking these cases seriously??? So what if it turns out they're at a friend's house? In the meantime, get out there and search and issue an AMBER ALERT.


You can always cancel an amber alert.......see my sig line. I've had it there since May.

The important thing is to find the child safe!

[VC2]

No matter her age if she weighed only 102 pounds a predator could easily manage to control her. And we do not know if the person that took her came upon her from her front side and knew she was a child. They may have already been watching Elizabeth for days to learn her habits or he may even live close by.

I think they most likely will find Elizabeth deep in the wooded area where her cell phone pinged. It is treacherous terrain so it will take them awhile to search. I do not feel Elizabeth is alive but I sure would love to be wrong though.

If she was taken by a predator he may have thought the wooded area would be the best place to take her rather than to his home.

It is so sad to see that children cannot go anywhere by themselves these days and really be safe.

imo

Yes...and that makes me think that perhaps it is someone in one of those 4 houses that needs to be looked at. No car obviously, to take her in. Has to be familiar with the area but taking her to his house would be crazy when there are deep woods and no one can find/see you especially if its a house on the route. Then he could look all innocent and offer the house to be searched.

It would only take one fast arm with a piece of duct tape in his hand to ensure no screaming :(

imo

[titanfan217]

Does the dad live with the family?

[dulcinea]

Does the dad live with the family?

If you scroll up to post #23 it says he has been in prison since April for a drug conviction.

[n/t]

Nothing new I could find online except for one comment on this site.

by coralync October 23, 2009 12:17 AM EDT
This child has not at this time been found. It is now 23:15 Thursday - the law enforcement officials are still out but all volunteers have been sent home because of the darkness and alot of rain and at this point resume in the morning at daylight. The father and brother of this beautiful young child are in the Missouri Corrections Facility in Bowling Green, Mo in NE Missouri. I pray that this child is not a part of the drugs that they were sent to prison for.... Please everyone in the USA will keep the family and friends in their prayers until she is found.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/22/crimesider/entry5409548.shtml

:rose:

[MissouriGMom]

The local news said that there will be a news conference this morning, but it didn't say what time. I'm really shocked at the lack of media coverage on this poor missing little girl.

[doradoll]

I hope this is allowed. This is an article about a woman who was arrested with Elizabeth's Dad and then dissappeared.

MO is big Meth country. Especially in rural areas.

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2008/03/05/news_local/301local03haslag.txt

and here is a site that features both Elizabeth and Jasmine (the missing girlfriend of Dale, Elizabeth's dad)

http://www.missourimissing.org/

[darcie]

I thought she was from St. Martins, MO. Anyway the link I read said that. What I wanted to say is 6:21p.m. is Actual Time for sunset but Civil Twilight is until 6:47p.m. There's a good deal of light after the sun actually sets and 1/4 mile is not very far at all. 5 minutes is time enough to walk that distance and she's a child v. my old lady status. I'm not advocating children walking alone any time though. Just saying about actual sunset v. civil twilight. You have about 20 minutes of good light still.

I so hope they find her safe.

Jefferson City, MO is only about 10 miles from St. Martins, it's just a little town on the outskirts.

But as you say, it was still light enough to see. I read somewhere that she walks really not *on the shoulder of the road* but kinda through the neigbors yard. But if i looked right on the google map street view, it's more like fields. Not very many houses at all. At first I thought that maybe she could have been a victim of a hit and run, although when they ran...they took her with them, But i guess that is not the case, because they would have blood evidence on the road or something.

Route D is so close to US 50. US 50 probably isn't a highly traveled road, but it sure is a get away road. It looks like there is an Old Highway 50, and then a new Highway 50. I am unsure where Elizabeth actually lived, between the two Highway 50's I am presuming. The old one goes right through St. martins, and the new one runs on the outskirts.

Prayers that they find her soon.

MOO

[darcie]

I hope this is allowed. This is an article about a woman who was arrested with Elizabeth's Dad and then dissappeared.

MO is big Meth country. Especially in rural areas.

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2008/03/05/news_local/301local03haslag.txt

and here is a site that features both Elizabeth and Jasmine (the missing girlfriend of Dale, Elizabeth's dad)

http://www.missourimissing.org/

Yes, I hate this coincidence!!

I just don't know what to think about it.

This young girl needed our prayers BEFORE she went missing....

[n/t]

Yes, I hate this coincidence!!

I just don't know what to think about it.

This young girl needed our prayers BEFORE she went missing....

I agree. Too much of a coincidence and I'm wondering if the drug connection is a possibility. :sad:

[darcie]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/missouristatenews/story/95471F955D5EB6EA86257658000761AF?OpenDocument

Volunteers to resume search for Mo. girl, 9

The primary search on Thursday focused on a section of woods about half a mile wide and half a mile long, which police zeroed in on by triangulating the girl's cell phone location, White said. The phone has not been found, and the battery died by Thursday morning. Uneven terrain, high brush and soaking weather were hindrances.

David Wininger, a volunteer firefighter who helped look until early Thursday morning and returned after work, said it was "overwhelming" and "beautiful" to see the outpouring of assistance. Wininger, 51, said groups of searchers spread out in lines across fields and woods to cover every square foot.

"It's very brushy. It's very hilly. There's a lot of rocks, trees and brush piles," Wininger said. "It's a very rough place to be."

More than 200 volunteers showed to help nearly 100 emergency personnel, and some were turned away.

That angered Gene Bauer, who drove 45 minutes from Eldon to help. Bauer criticized how the search had been conducted and said he would examine gravel roads on his own if needed.

Vicki Olten, who is Elizabeth's aunt, called the girl a "tough tomboy," but that she was afraid someone had tried to hurt her.

"I want my niece home. I want her safe," said Olten, of Russellville. "She's a beautiful young girl and got a full life ahead of her. She does not deserve this. Her family does not deserve this."

The Missouri State Highway Patrol set up a check point on a highway near the house and interviewed motorists. The Patrol used a helicopter with a thermal imaging radar on Wednesday, but poor weather prevented a repeat of that on Thursday. Officials hoped it could be used again Friday.

A police tip line for those with information is: 866-362-6422.

[doradoll]

I agree. Too much of a coincidence and I'm wondering if the drug connection is a possibility. :sad:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/haslag_jasmine.html

I know, it seems strange. But, with Meth I don't doubt anything. The Charley Project on Jasmine has more info about Dale.

More likely, though, would be a child predator, but this is a very stange coincidence.

Poor little girl. I hope there are answers soon.

[Elle]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=366735
Why no Amber Alert for missing girl?

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/missouristatenews/story/95471F955D5EB6EA86257658000761AF?OpenDocument
Volunteers to resume search for Mo. girl, 9

http://ozarksfirst.com/content/fulltext/?cid=198401
How Your Cell Phone Could Help In A Crisis


Elizabeth:rose:

[Elle]

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/23/breaking_news/doc4ae10c83ef680093862382.txt
9-year-old's family frustrated by pace of search


Elizabeth:rose:

[Marcia3]

Victoria Stafford and Sandra Cantu's cases should dispel the idea that children scream when abducted.

This child should not have been walking home alone at this hour no matter how much someone wants to tell me that she 'should' be able to.

Period.

Our kids "should" be able to do a lot of things - all of which I did when I was a child - like spend a hot summer day at the community pool without my parents, hop on my bike and ride for hours without worry, play outside after supper until after dark, chasing fireflies and whatnot.

But even my children, who are now grown, didn't enjoy the kind of freedom I had, and today's young ones are even less free. It stinks like crazy, but it is the reality of the world today.

You're absolutely right, she should not have been walking home by herself, and yet, she should be able to do that without fear of something bad happening to her.

[CC I See]

Our kids "should" be able to do a lot of things - all of which I did when I was a child - like spend a hot summer day at the community pool without my parents, hop on my bike and ride for hours without worry, play outside after supper until after dark, chasing fireflies and whatnot.

But even my children, who are now grown, didn't enjoy the kind of freedom I had, and today's young ones are even less free. It stinks like crazy, but it is the reality of the world today.

You're absolutely right, she should not have been walking home by herself, and yet, she should be able to do that without fear of something bad happening to her.

It is the offenders that should be locked inside and not the children... but since the offenders rights are more important they get to roam about unsupervised and most often supported to do so by their families.

Laws have been influenced by priorities.... and until they change, children will continue to be hunted by these pedators.

[darcie]

My hubbie was surfing channels this morning (as men like to do :w00t:)
and I heard Elizbeth's name mentioned and Geraldo Rivera was speaking about this case and Somer's case. He was going on, and on, and on, about how parents need to be more responsible, adjust work schedules so that someone can take and pick up children from school. Without coming out and saying it, it pretty well set with me that the he was putting PARTIAL blame on the parents when their child comes up missing This is a completely different topic, and I know that IS Board posters have varying opinions on that. I am not wanting to get into that, or debate it. We all do what we see fit.

BUT it aggravates me to no end that BECAUSE of Sexual Predators the world wants to blame parents, when it is the predator who is at fault. Children loose their freedom, their rights, BECAUSE of them, and they get to go on their merry way and live as they see fit.

Sexual Offenders are the bad guys here. Not parents. Yet children are paying the price.

I know there is no easy answers, but I am fed up. I might even be speaking out of turn, because at this moment, we have no idea who did what with Elizabeth.....but it STILL yanks my chain. Yes times have changed, but that still doesn't mean that we as parents find it *acceptable* that sexual offenders/predators are even given the chance to offend a second time. One time is enough. Sexual abuse against children SHOULD NOT be tolerated by our system. One strike law is needed.

MOO

[n/t]

My hubbie was surfing channels this morning (as men like to do :w00t:)
and I heard Elizbeth's name mentioned and Geraldo Rivera was speaking about this case and Somer's case. He was going on, and on, and on, about how parents need to be more responsible, adjust work schedules so that someone can take and pick up children from school. Without coming out and saying it, it pretty well set with me that the he was putting PARTIAL blame on the parents when their child comes up missing This is a completely different topic, and I know that IS Board posters have varying opinions on that. I am not wanting to get into that, or debate it. We all do what we see fit.

BUT it aggravates me to no end that BECAUSE of Sexual Predators the world wants to blame parents, when it is the predator who is at fault. Children loose their freedom, their rights, BECAUSE of them, and they get to go on their merry way and live as they see fit.

Sexual Offenders are the bad guys here. Not parents. Yet children are paying the price.

I know there is no easy answers, but I am fed up. I might even be speaking out of turn, because at this moment, we have no idea who did what with Elizabeth.....but it STILL yanks my chain. Yes times have changed, but that still doesn't mean that we as parents find it *acceptable* that sexual offenders/predators are even given the chance to offend a second time. One time is enough. Sexual abuse against children SHOULD NOT be tolerated by our system. One strike law is needed.

MOO

darcie, I think that's the problem when discussing a parent's responsibility. IMO, I don't think anyone here puts blame on the parents. These monsters prey and terrorize communities. Until the laws are changed, every parent will have to ensure their child is safe.

If you go read Somer's thread there was a discussion about this very same thing this morning.

It's a sad reality.

[omsk99]

Elizabeth Olten Still Missing: Search Continues for 9-Year-Old Missouri Girl
Missouri Authorities Searching Wooded Area Where Cell Phone Signal Last Tracked

"According to the Jefferson City News Tribune, the search has centered around a wooded area between the two houses. Elizabeth Olten was carrying a cell phone when she went missing. Authorities tracked the cell phone to an area of the woods and searchers are focused in that general area. "We've gone over the entire area twice, on foot and with the assistance of GPS tracking," Clay County Sheriff Greg White said. "We haven't found the phone she was carrying, either."

More at the link:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2317048/elizabeth_olten_still_missing_search.html?cat=9

[Jeepers]

Headline News just announced a body has been found and have Person of Interest. POI is another young person. Led LE to Body
They think it is Elizabeth.

[~jomomma~]

Headline News just announced a body has been found and have Person of Interest. POI is another young person. Led LE to Body
They think it is Elizabeth.

thanks jeepers! i just walked in the door and heard something on HLN so came here to see what was going on.

[~jomomma~]

omg...... :crying:

[Nascargal]

I just heard her body was found:sad:

[n/t]

Headline News just announced a body has been found and have Person of Interest. POI is another young person. Led LE to Body
They think it is Elizabeth.

:crying:

Sad. Another innocent life. Hopefully we'll get more details soon. Another young person? Did he/she lure him into the woods? Teenager?

:rose:

[Jeepers]

I have not found anything in writing yet, just TV reports.

Prayers for Elizabeth's family and friends

[n/t]

omg...... :crying:

Do they know who murdered her?:crying:

[lune3]

Oh no, .....omg this is so awful.:sad:
Has it been reported she was found in the woods?

[QueeeenBeeee]

hello all.................sorry to jump in but i've been reading this and wanted to share this......

such a tragedy:sad:

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/23/news_local/069local02bodyfound09.txt

[happy2bme]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569338,00.html


An "older juvenile" suspect led authorities to Elizabeth Olten's body, deep in the woods near where an exhaustive search for the child was under way for much of the day.

[BobbysGirl]

i just heard her body was found:sad:

oh no! :(

[Jeepers]

Do they know who murdered her?:crying:

They have someone in custody have not released name.
Juvenile is being reported.

[happy2bme]

http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1526024.html

Authorities searching for a missing Cole County, Mo., girl have found a body and arrested a juvenile described as a “person of interest” in the case, authorities announced this afternoon.
The body of Elizabeth Olten, 9, of St. Martins was found deep in the woods away from the initial search area, Cole County Sheriff Greg White announced in a televised press conference. Authorities also recovered Elizabeth’s cell phone, he said.
The person of interest is an older juvenile who was acquainted with Elizabeth, White said. He did not provide the juvenile’s age or say how he knew Elizabeth

[Justice4all]

Headline News just announced a body has been found and have Person of Interest. POI is another young person. Led LE to Body
They think it is Elizabeth.

OMG Why does this keep happening :crying:

[chrissy07]

Elizabeth Olten, missing since Wednesday night, was found dead Friday.

Authorities announced that her body had been recovered.

Through physical evidence and some written evidence, officials said at a 3 p.m. news briefing, they determined a person of interest.

That person was interviewed and then led officials to the body.

A juvenile, apparently a friend of Elizabeth's, is involved in the case.

No other details were available immediately, and the case remains under investigation.

[BobbysGirl]

darcie, I think that's the problem when discussing a parent's responsibility. IMO, I don't think anyone here puts blame on the parents. These monsters prey and terrorize communities. Until the laws are changed, every parent will have to ensure their child is safe.

If you go read Somer's thread there was a discussion about this very same thing this morning.

It's a sad reality.

IA a sad reality. These predators are cunning, baffling and powerful. There does seem to be a problem. From many parents I know and met. Observed. They do not watch news. They just go about their daily lives w/o a thought. Many I have seen, shovel their children to neighbors houses and know nothing about the adults and who/how many live there.
Esp. weekends. Early morn till dark. I get so angry. IMO

BG

[Justice4all]

IA a sad reality. These predators are cunning, baffling and powerful. There does seem to be a problem. From many parents I know and met. Observed. They do not watch news. They just go about their daily lives w/o a thought. Many I have seen, shovel their children to neighbors houses and know nothing about the adults and who/how many live there.
Esp. weekends. Early morn till dark. I get so angry. IMO

BG

The sad reality in this case is the predator that killed little Elizabeth was her friend :mad:

[desmom]

Missing Girl's Body Found
http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/830d1a67-80ce-0971-00cb-8a9296abae88
The Cole County Sheriff reports searchers found the body of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten just before 3:00 this afternoon.

Investigators said written and physical evidence led them to a person of interest who then led them to the body. The sheriff said the person of interest is not a member of the family, but is an acquaintance. Investigators said the body was located a distance from where they had been searching. The person of interest is a juvenile and is in custody.

:rose: Elizabeth :rose:

[Elle]

WTH is going on?! wth is going on?
I am so sorry Elizabeth, so sorry that this world was not a safe place for you to be. So many babies, lives taken from them...God, why are they killing our children? I no longer have any words, what can I say, this is so beyond my understanding.
I am so... God... what is going on?

Sweet Elizabeth:rose:

[RayStar]

Just down right heart breaking. Now the families lives will never be the same. What is snapping inside these predators head?

[Aunt]

Another angel in heaven, ..too many... :sad:

:rose:

RIP Elizabeth

[lune3]

I can't believe this. And this was a "friend"?!
Young juvenile, what does this mean, a 14/15 year old? younger?
:cursing:

[darcie]

Rest in peace Elizabeth~~rest in peace.

I have no other words.....

[VC2]

And it doesn't matter what the parents do, this is a good example. If they were known to the family would you or anyone blink twice if the son of your friend was the one asked to walk her home? - i know that isn't the case here, but it doesn't matter how careful a parent is.

Unless you literally bar their bedroom windows and lock their bedroom door and keep them there, there is a risk if an SO wants them. All the ones taken from their bedroom, all the ones taken by people who were either family or trusted friends or people she knew and would never dream of being afraid of and neither would the parent.

Then the stranger abductions but they are much rarer than the above, and those ones really are determined imo.

jmo

[Nascargal]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569338,00.html


An "older juvenile" suspect led authorities to Elizabeth Olten's body, deep in the woods near where an exhaustive search for the child was under way for much of the day.

I can not believe we have had 2 little girls found dead in 2 days this is a total outrage. JMHO:cursing:

[Nascargal]

I can't believe this. And this was a "friend"?!
Young juvenile, what does this mean, a 14/15 year old? younger?
:cursing:

Not sure could be..:angry:

[smile]

I heard ...15 girl

[sinagua]

It is sad that there are so many deaths and murders on CNN, that I haven't seen this story, yet.

My prayers are with the the Oltens.

[Elle]

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/23/news_local/069local04momiss09.txt
Support group issues statement

:rose: Elizabeth and her family

[Elle]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=367062
from article~
Physical evidence and written evidence led police to develop a person of interest. Police interviewed the person of interest, a older teen, who then led police to Elizabeth's body.

Police have the teen in custody. The teen lives in the area and is not connected to the family.


Elizabeth:rose:

[Rayosunshine]

I can not believe we have had 2 little girls found dead in 2 days this is a total outrage. JMHO:cursing:

At the rate we are seeing, it wouldn't be such a bad idea if the earth blew up on 12/12/12, since there won't be many people living here anyway. By the time these kids reach adulthood, there will be too few of them left to support the economy. (not that I am a business guru, I'm not, just saying) I am quite incensed at another case of pedicide.

[desmom]

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime-Examiner~y2009m10d23-Body-of-missing-Missouri-girl-Elizabeth-Olten-found-juvenile-questioned
White said law enforcement recovered written and physical evidence to lead them to a person of interest.

Written and physical evidence? That makes me think diary or journal.

Just speculation...I wonder if Elizabeth was bullied, tormented or harassed by an older child and Elizabeth recorded the events in a journal or diary. jmo

[n/t]

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime-Examiner~y2009m10d23-Body-of-missing-Missouri-girl-Elizabeth-Olten-found-juvenile-questioned
White said law enforcement recovered written and physical evidence to lead them to a person of interest.

Written and physical evidence? That makes me think diary or journal.

Just speculation...I wonder if Elizabeth was bullied, tormented or harassed by an older child and Elizabeth recorded the events in a journal or diary. jmo

Computer maybe? Maybe this juvenile bragged about it to his/her friends who reported it.

[desmom]

Computer maybe? Maybe this juvenile bragged about it to his/her friends who reported it.

I have shown my age. I guess kids probably don't write in a diary or a journal like I did when I was a kid.

I just found this report: http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kcur/news.newsmain/article/1/0/1569657/KCUR.News/Hunt.Ends.Child.Found.Dead

Search teams with dogs were in their second day of covering wooded terrain within a mile of the girl's home when, Sheriff Greg White of Cole County said, written and other evidence led then to a somewhat older boy, still a minor. And that boy led them to her body. Reporters questioned the sheriff after the discover of the girl's remains and the arrest. He said evidence teams were processing several areas. Asked to clarify the relationship between the child and the boy who was arrested, Sheriff White would only say---"they are acquainted."

[desmom]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iL2APTMLoOIa6NBqXxEd_DKqAkDQD9BH2OOO5

David Schulte, who lives nearby, said Elizabeth typically would walk through his front yard about 30 or 40 feet away from the road on her way back home from the friend's house.......

Schulte, who had helped with the search, said the area around where the phone was transmitting signals was about one-quarter of a mile away from the county highway and in the middle of the woods. He said it is easy to get turned around and difficult to hold straight search lines because the terrain is all "ridges and valleys" along with brambles.

[n/t]

I have shown my age. I guess kids probably don't write in a diary or a journal like I did when I was a kid.

I just found this report: http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/kcur/news.newsmain/article/1/0/1569657/KCUR.News/Hunt.Ends.Child.Found.Dead

Search teams with dogs were in their second day of covering wooded terrain within a mile of the girl's home when, Sheriff Greg White of Cole County said, written and other evidence led then to a somewhat older boy, still a minor. And that boy led them to her body. Reporters questioned the sheriff after the discover of the girl's remains and the arrest. He said evidence teams were processing several areas. Asked to clarify the relationship between the child and the boy who was arrested, Sheriff White would only say---"they are acquainted."

Why did he kill her?? A kid himself. So depressing.

[cantstandnuts]

And it doesn't matter what the parents do, this is a good example. If they were known to the family would you or anyone blink twice if the son of your friend was the one asked to walk her home? - i know that isn't the case here, but it doesn't matter how careful a parent is.

Unless you literally bar their bedroom windows and lock their bedroom door and keep them there, there is a risk if an SO wants them. All the ones taken from their bedroom, all the ones taken by people who were either family or trusted friends or people she knew and would never dream of being afraid of and neither would the parent.

Then the stranger abductions but they are much rarer than the above, and those ones really are determined imo.

jmo

I wonder how old the juvenile is. I'm willing to bet he is not a RSO.

[desmom]

From the comments section of http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/23/news_local/069local02bodyfound09.txt

online_editor wrote on Oct 23, 2009 6:26 PM:
"We understand the Olten family is holding a news conference to speak with reporters. News Tribune's Jeff Haldiman is there and we'll update accordingly. --Rick Brown, online editor, News Tribune "

[cantstandnuts]

I heard ...15 girl

Do you mean you heard the perp is a 15 year old girl?

[desmom]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=367062
Cole County Sheriff Greg White said that it could be a week before the charges will be filed because of a mandatory review period.

[n/t]

Do you mean you heard the perp is a 15 year old girl?

It's a male...desmom posted the link. The age is not known but he's a juvenile still considered a minor.

[cantstandnuts]

wth???

Omg..

I was looking for clarification of a post. I have no idea. If it's true, though, then looking at RSOs and males would have done no good in trying to find the perp. Scary thought, I hope I got the post wrong.

[cantstandnuts]

It's a male...desmom posted the link. The age is not known but he's a juvenile still considered a minor.

thank you for the clarification. I have no idea what that post meant, then.

[cantstandnuts]

OMG..this is just too much..

As I sit here in my house with my DS's & his young buddy from school...who just moved here from Florida ..they have walked down to his house 3 times since 4:00 this afternoon.. nobodu home each time...no mother calling me.. ..they do not have a phone ..they still have pay phone 's RIGHT? And somebody has a cell phone....Right?.sorry..I just can't think ...(as they just moved back here..but they were here a few years ago..have my phone # I would think since then..not changed) and we can't find the mother..left notes..my phone #..she has no phone (they just moved in) and her cell phone is OUT OF MINUTES!!!!

For all I know..he could be reported as missing..the boys did leave a note on the door with my phone # and addy..but..WTH..if I had not had contact with my DS since this morning..I would have an Amber Allert on him by now...It's 7:35 p.m.!!! It's dark outside..this child will not leave my house!!!!

Thank Goodness he came to hang out with your DS and you. This child will be safe.

[bugout]

I just don't have the words either :rose: :rose: :rose:

Bug

[Justice4all]

The past few days have been so emotional for me. I can't imagine the pain these parents are feeling right now. I really don't think our children are safe anywhere anymore...:crying:

[~jomomma~]

i'm just sitting here, shaking my head with tears in my eyes, watching NG show tonight.

i'm with the rest of you who have no words.

i haven't even been able to bring myself to catch up on today's news on Somer.

on JVM, they showed Sandra Cantu's pic and my heart just broke.

these kids are innocent. i just don't understand :crying:

[Ice Cycle]

I just don't have the words either :rose: :rose: :rose:

Bug

No and very sad. I have to say that my first thought when I heard they had found another body there went to Haleigh, she so much needs to be found also, for many reasons.

[cantstandnuts]

Thanks ..I needed that..still no word.

Really? Wow, I was sure they'd have come for him by now. Do you still have him? Again, thank the heaven's above, he wasn't hanging with someone who would have said "time to go" and sent him on his way.
Bless that child, it's been hours!

[~jomomma~]

Yes he is still here..We just went back down to their place at 8:10..still nobody around..there are now 4 notes on their front door from us..phone #..address...I just personally can not comprehend this at all.
Not in my wildest dreams..I always know where my DS is.


*shaking head*

[cantstandnuts]

Yes he is still here..We just went back down to their place at 8:10..still nobody around..there are now 4 notes on their front door from us..phone #..address...I just personally can not comprehend this at all.
Not in my wildest dreams..I always know where my DS is.

Yeah, me too. I just wonder, did he tell his mom he was staying somewhere for the night? Maybe she isn't expecting him until morning?

[smile]

Do you mean you heard the perp is a 15 year old girl?

sadly yes.......and lives close by....that is what was heard

[bugout]

Computer maybe? Maybe this juvenile bragged about it to his/her friends who reported it.

On NG tonight they said there was a note delivered to LE. So, they have a note. They had the POI from the get go. :(

All I could think of was her cell pinging in the woods. I have actually shut down today I think, it's a natural protection mode I am in I'm sure.
Too much pain. :rose:

[lune3]

Yes he is still here..We just went back down to their place at 8:10..still nobody around..there are now 4 notes on their front door from us..phone #..address...I just personally can not comprehend this at all.
Not in my wildest dreams..I always know where my DS is.

I don't know angellaw, it seems awfully strange if not negligent. If you don't hear anything by say 10pm, do you think you should have the house checked? Make a call to local authorities? What if the mom is hurt in there? Is there a husband?

[cantstandnuts]

sadly yes.......and lives close by....that is what was heard

It's reported the perp is a male. Where did you hear this? Do you have a link? Do you live in the area and so that is how you heard this? I'm really curious. :confused:

[lune3]

sadly yes.......and lives close by....that is what was heard

Two articles I have read so far clearly stated a "he"...and one of them was a quote from the sherriff.

An accomplice?

[cantstandnuts]

Two articles I have read so far clearly stated a "he"...and one of them was a quote from the sherriff.

An accomplice?

That's a thought. I just don't get where a 15 year old girl comes into this and would really like to know, not just because of this case, but because we are focused on RSOs and males and as we learned in the Sandra Cantu case, that isn't always how it goes. So, to me, we need to broaden our ideas of who can do these horrible things. That is, if what smiles heard is true.

[cantstandnuts]

I completely agree with this... does he seem worried??? Surprised??? Either way, it needs to be looked into. What if you were unable to keep him all this time??? Where was he supposed to go???? I would be WILD!!!:cursing:

I would, too. I don't understand how it's okay to not know where your child is for so long. I hope angellaw let's us know why this happened.

[Santa'sMom]

9 year olds should not be allowed to walk alone!!!:angry:
Not 1/10 of a mile or 1/4 of a mile.:cursing: When are people going to become responsible for their children??? Children should be protected.
My kids are grown now, between the ages of 18-28 and they never ever ever were allowed to walk alone anywhere NEVER. That's one reason they are here on earth, imho.

Were your kids allowed to walk with friends? This case appears to be one of those where a kid harms another kid. It happens. Sometimes its the kid you would never suspect in a million years who harms another child.

[Rayosunshine]

OMG..this is just too much..

As I sit here in my house with my DS's & his young buddy from school...who just moved here from Florida ..they have walked down to his house 3 times since 4:00 this afternoon.. nobodu home each time...no mother calling me.. ..they do not have a phone ..they still have pay phone 's RIGHT? And somebody has a cell phone....Right?.sorry..I just can't think ...(as they just moved back here..but they were here a few years ago..have my phone # I would think since then..not changed) and we can't find the mother..left notes..my phone #..she has no phone (they just moved in) and her cell phone is OUT OF MINUTES!!!!

For all I know..he could be reported as missing..the boys did leave a note on the door with my phone # and addy..but..WTH..if I had not had contact with my DS since this morning..I would have an Amber Allert on him by now...It's 7:35 p.m.!!! It's dark outside..this child will not leave my house!!!!

angellaw, that is just unfriggin believable, but not surprising. Some parents just don't know how lucky they are to still have their child. Makes me sick. I think the problem with many children is the result of the fact that they don't really know their parents and the parents don't want to know their children. They treat their children like excess baggage.

[Rayosunshine]

Yes he is still here..We just went back down to their place at 8:10..still nobody around..there are now 4 notes on their front door from us..phone #..address...I just personally can not comprehend this at all.
Not in my wildest dreams..I always know where my DS is.

How old is the child? Good grief. Thank God he was with you, you sure lived up to your name, "angel".

[Mamie]

Were your kids allowed to walk with friends? This case appears to be one of those where a kid harms another kid. It happens. Sometimes its the kid you would never suspect in a million years who harms another child.

Yes, my kids were allowed to walk with other kids. My kids were also allowed to play outside in the front yard or down in a neighbor's front yard with their children but that was a different time, back then. I surely would not let my kids out in this day and age alone. What a world we have become. JMO

[Mamie]

I suspect those of us posting here saw Marc Klaas last night but for those of you who may have missed his segment on NG, he had some statistics he talked about and they went like this:

People who murder little children as a result of an abduction:
> 57% have a previous conviction of violence against children

> 76.2% of children that are kidnapped will be dead in 3 hours

> 74% of THOSE victims will be little girls

More than half of all children that are murdered as a result of an abduction are taken from within 1/4 mile of their home.....and 1/3 of THOSE children have the first contact (by the abductor) within a half block of their home.

Marc Klaas said the obvious lesson in this is to not allow your children to go outside unaccompanied.

Then a couple of stats from USDOJ: A child goes missing every 40 seconds (40 SECONDS!) in the US, 2100 per day. 800,000 children go missing each year and 90% of those are juveniles and 50% of THOSE are children 4 to 11 years old.

Now I realize that the juvenile involved in Elizabeth Olten's disappearance and murder doesn't really fit into these statistics because he probably doesn't have a prior conviction for violence against children----yet----but I just thought these facts needed to be posted.

Every 40 seconds-----just unbelievable.

JMO

[juliekan]

angellaw, that is just unfriggin believable, but not surprising. Some parents just don't know how lucky they are to still have their child. Makes me sick. I think the problem with many children is the result of the fact that they don't really know their parents and the parents don't want to know their children. They treat their children like excess baggage.

I had a 5 year old neighbor girl show up at my house one afternoon after school was out. We let her come in, even though we didn't know the family because they had just moved in down the street.

Her parent finally knocked on our door at 8:30 that night, didn't introduce herself after I did, and scolded her daughter for not being at home. Scary. Of course, the "dealings" we saw after that were scarier. Thank God they moved, but poor child.

[Chica]

At the rate we are seeing, it wouldn't be such a bad idea if the earth blew up on 12/12/12, since there won't be many people living here anyway. By the time these kids reach adulthood, there will be too few of them left to support the economy. (not that I am a business guru, I'm not, just saying) I am quite incensed at another case of pedicide.

Not to split hairs, Rayo, but the Mayan calendar ends on 12/21/2012, bot 12/12.

[lune3]

I had a 5 year old neighbor girl show up at my house one afternoon after school was out. We let her come in, even though we didn't know the family because they had just moved in down the street.

Her parent finally knocked on our door at 8:30 that night, didn't introduce herself after I did, and scolded her daughter for not being at home. Scary. Of course, the "dealings" we saw after that were scarier. Thank God they moved, but poor child.

I don't understand some parents. I was brand new in the neigbourhood here, and another mom at my kid's ballet lesson asked me to take another kid (6 years old) to her home (on my way) when she canceled out. I first said no, but then relented if she got permission from the child's mom. She called the mom of this child to say someone else would bring her home. Fine. NEITHER PARENT KNEW ME. I took the child home, went to the front door with her, and expected to meet the mom. Kid opened the unlocked door, mom yelled hi honey, kid shut the door in my face, I waited a while and the mom never came to the door. WTH? And I could have been an axe murderer or absconded with her child. And not even a thank you. It was like I was delivering a package or something.

[Justice4all]

9 year olds should not be allowed to walk alone!!!:angry:
Not 1/10 of a mile or 1/4 of a mile.:cursing: When are people going to become responsible for their children??? Children should be protected.
My kids are grown now, between the ages of 18-28 and they never ever ever were allowed to walk alone anywhere NEVER. That's one reason they are here on earth, imho.

When i was 8 my mom would let me go to my Grandma's house that was 1/4 mile away . It was on the same road and my mom would stand in the street and my Grandma would stand in the street and when i got there Grandma and I would wave at my mom.

My children used to go to public school and the day after the Columbine massacre I put them in private school.

I'm Catholic ( and love my Church and Priest ) but when the news broke about the evils going on in the Church ( not mine ) I never allowed my children to go to church or church camp alone.

Now my babygirl (17) goes to a college (VT) i don't have faith in. She's made me a happy momma and told me she's transferring after this semester.

I don't know where are children are safe at anymore and that breaks my heart.


(( sorry for the rant ))

[lune3]

The written evidence: Would Elizabeth have had a computer? Or maybe text messages were recovered from the phone. I wonder if this boy had scared her. Maybe he was texting her with creepy messages. How can a "juvenile" be so deviant and evil to kill a little girl? Why???? I feel so bad for her family.

"We were able to obtain some physical evidence and through some analysis of some of the evidence and in all honesty some written evidence, we were able to develop a person of interest," White said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569338,00.html

[juliekan]

You just never know...I live a lower/middle class neighborhood where most everyone knows their neighbors...while doing a search of registered sexual offenders for my area, came up with a 14 yo that had been listed as such for 2 YEARS in the neighborhood next to mine. What a shock!

[withay]

When my niece was 12 she brought a friend with her when she came to visit me over the spring break (one week). The girl's parents did not know me and (according to my SIL) barely knew my brother and SIL.
Her parents sent their child 175 miles away to stay with a stranger for a week! I had told my niece it was okay with me and for them to call me, really expecting the girl's parents to not let her come. After that, my niece was never allowed to visit at their house because we feared their lax supervision.

[Heidi J.]

9 year olds should not be allowed to walk alone!!!:angry:
Not 1/10 of a mile or 1/4 of a mile.:cursing: When are people going to become responsible for their children??? Children should be protected.
My kids are grown now, between the ages of 18-28 and they never ever ever were allowed to walk alone anywhere NEVER. That's one reason they are here on earth, imho.

Our children should not have this fear period. They should be able to act like kids do without constantly looking over their shoulder. This was not a long distance for her to walk..

We need tougher sentences for these offenders, look how many times a case breaks (ex. Duggard) that we find these animals have already been convicted of previous crimes.:mad:

I remember when I was younger, I used to ride my bike everywhere.. I never had any fears. My parents would say to be home before the street lights came on.

No days, with the world we live in, parents need to take more precautions to insure their kids safety. I have dealt with many kids, that they stay at my house for days and they don't talk to their parents at all during the visit.

My prayers go out to Elizabeth's family and friends..

[MissouriGMom]

Just heard a few minutes ago on the news that there will be a presser at 11:00 central time.

[n/t]

Body of St. Martins girl recovered from woods
Juvenile suspect led police to site.

Elizabeth’s father, Dale “Bo” Olten Sr., learned of his daughter’s death while watching TV in the Northeast Correctional Center in Bowling Green, where he is serving a four-year sentence for drug possession. Elizabeth’s eldest brother, Dale Olten Jr., is serving a seven-year sentence at the same facility.

Nancy Hanks, a family friend who works for the attorney who represented Dale Olten Sr., said the father feels helpless behind bars and desperately wanted to be part of the search for Elizabeth. “He’s actually a good person,” she said.
http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009/oct/24/body-of-st-martins-girl-recovered-from-woods/

[desmom]

9 year olds should not be allowed to walk alone!!!:angry:
Not 1/10 of a mile or 1/4 of a mile.:cursing: When are people going to become responsible for their children??? Children should be protected.
My kids are grown now, between the ages of 18-28 and they never ever ever were allowed to walk alone anywhere NEVER. That's one reason they are here on earth, imho.

1/10 of a mile is a little over 500'. 1/4 of a mile is 1300+ feet...or what 6 front yards? A 9 year old should not be allowed to walk across 6 neighbors yards to visit a friend?

What happened to Elizabeth is not her parents fault! Media reports say the juvenile in custody knew Elizabeth. This was not a stranger, but someone she knew! How do you determine if your child's friends or acquaintances are going to harm them?

jmo

[tootie]

Anyone know what channel the presser will be on or a link on line? Thanks in advance.

For Elizabeth. :rose:

[Rayosunshine]

Not to split hairs, Rayo, but the Mayan calendar ends on 12/21/2012, bot 12/12.

Chica, you're right, sorry. 12/12/12 did seem too easy to type, lol.

[Rayosunshine]

The written evidence: Would Elizabeth have had a computer? Or maybe text messages were recovered from the phone. I wonder if this boy had scared her. Maybe he was texting her with creepy messages. How can a "juvenile" be so deviant and evil to kill a little girl? Why???? I feel so bad for her family.

"We were able to obtain some physical evidence and through some analysis of some of the evidence and in all honesty some written evidence, we were able to develop a person of interest," White said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569338,00.html

The person who did this to Elizabeth, if a juvenile, would probably have grown up to be a serial killer. Imagine that.

[KatieLady]

The person who did this to Elizabeth, if a juvenile, would probably have grown up to be a serial killer. Imagine that.

So true!

I wonder if the "written evidence" is text messages? Do we know if she had a cell phone? My 10 yr old grandson has one.

[lune3]

So true!

I wonder if the "written evidence" is text messages? Do we know if she had a cell phone? My 10 yr old grandson has one.

Yes, her cell phone was in the woods. Pings were traced to it after her disappearance.
I also think the "written evidence" may have been text messages.

[tootie]

I wasn't able to find the news conference and was wondering if anyone had watched it? TIA.

[KatieLady]

Yes, her cell phone was in the woods. Pings were traced to it after her disappearance.
I also think the "written evidence" may have been text messages.

Thanks lune.....I am doing my best to catch up. Sadly, there aret to many cases to follow :sad:

[KatieLady]

I wasn't able to find the news conference and was wondering if anyone had watched it? TIA.

Sorry tootie...I didn't see it. I would like to know also

[tootie]

Sorry tootie...I didn't see it. I would like to know also

Thanks KatieLady, maybe someone will come along and update us.

[momof3]

Body of St. Martins girl recovered from woods
Juvenile suspect led police to site.

Elizabeth’s father, Dale “Bo” Olten Sr., learned of his daughter’s death while watching TV in the Northeast Correctional Center in Bowling Green, where he is serving a four-year sentence for drug possession. Elizabeth’s eldest brother, Dale Olten Jr., is serving a seven-year sentence at the same facility.

Nancy Hanks, a family friend who works for the attorney who represented Dale Olten Sr., said the father feels helpless behind bars and desperately wanted to be part of the search for Elizabeth. “He’s actually a good person,” she said.
http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/2009/oct/24/body-of-st-martins-girl-recovered-from-woods/

How can you say for 1 minute he is a good guy? Have you taken a look at casenet? If he is such a good guy he wouldn't be sitting in prison. He would have been at home taking care of his family.

[tootie]

How can you say for 1 minute he is a good guy? Have you taken a look at casenet? If he is such a good guy he wouldn't be sitting in prison. He would have been at home taking care of his family.

Hi momof3 and welcome to the forum. I don't think n/t was saying the father was a good guy I think that his attorney was saying this. Not sure if that was what you meant or not. n/t was only quoting the article.

Edited to say thank you MissouriGMom for the update.

[MissouriGMom]

Thanks KatieLady, maybe someone will come along and update us.


http://www.kctv5.com/news/21412744/detail.html


ST. MARTINS, Mo. -- Authorities have charged a 15-year-old with first-degree murder for the death of 9-year-old girl in central Missouri.

Cole County Juvenile Court Administrator Michael Couty said Saturday that the 15-year-old is being detained for the death of Elizabeth Olten. Police did not release the teen's gender or name.

[Nascargal]

Yes, my kids were allowed to walk with other kids. My kids were also allowed to play outside in the front yard or down in a neighbor's front yard with their children but that was a different time, back then. I surely would not let my kids out in this day and age alone. What a world we have become. JMO

I have to agree with you Mamie if my kids were not 13 and 19 and boys they would not be out of my sight these days. My sister gets so sick of me worrying about my little 9yr old niece plus her daddy is a Judge which can Pee of someone and another sister is having a Girl in January this auntie will never let them out alone nor will my boys they watch my niece very well and who she is around even the friends and thier parents JMHO

[Nascargal]

http://www.kctv5.com/news/21412744/detail.html


ST. MARTINS, Mo. -- Authorities have charged a 15-year-old with first-degree murder for the death of 9-year-old girl in central Missouri.

Cole County Juvenile Court Administrator Michael Couty said Saturday that the 15-year-old is being detained for the death of Elizabeth Olten. Police did not release the teen's gender or name.

OMG a 15yr old that knew her :crying:

[tootie]

Wonder why they aren't disclosing the gender of the suspect. Age 15? Will this person be tried as an adult or juvenile?

[Nascargal]

How can you say for 1 minute he is a good guy? Have you taken a look at casenet? If he is such a good guy he wouldn't be sitting in prison. He would have been at home taking care of his family.

Well his choice to break the law and seems he taught his son the same and now he will never see his daughter because of his stupid actions. JMO

Elizabeth’s father, Dale “Bo” Olten Sr., learned of his daughter’s death while watching TV in the Northeast Correctional Center in Bowling Green, where he is serving a four-year sentence for drug possession.

Elizabeth’s eldest brother, Dale Olten Jr., is serving a seven-year sentence at the same facility.

[MissouriGMom]

Wonder why they aren't disclosing the gender of the suspect. Age 15? Will this person be tried as an adult or juvenile?

Because they are specifically saying that they are not giving the gender, I'm thinking that the perp may be a female.

As far as being tried as an adult or juvenile, I don't know. Wouldn't LE have to recommend that to a judge? (I mean to be tried as an adult)

[n/t]

Because they are specifically saying that they are not giving the gender, I'm thinking that the perp may be a female.

As far as being tried as an adult or juvenile, I don't know. Wouldn't LE have to recommend that to a judge? (I mean to be tried as an adult)

Post #93. The gender was disclosed and it's a male.

[n/t]

Hi momof3 and welcome to the forum. I don't think n/t was saying the father was a good guy I think that his attorney was saying this. Not sure if that was what you meant or not. n/t was only quoting the article.

Edited to say thank you MissouriGMom for the update.

lol thanks tootie. Nope I definitely wouldn't say he was a good guy.

[MissouriGMom]

Post #93. The gender was disclosed and it's a male.

Thanks, n/t! I missed that. Curious though, that they are now saying that the police is not revealing the gender. Maybe that Jeff City radio station that reported it to be a boy shouldn't have done so because of his juvenile status. I don't know, just guessing.

[MissouriGMom]

Just found this.

http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/24/news_local/068local02olten09.txt

The authorities have asked for a certification hearing to determine if the 15 year old can be tried as an adult or juvenile.

If courts determine in a closed hearing that the child should be tried as an adult, more details will be made available to the public.

[tv4me]

I've read two different reports: one saying the perp was a boy, another in which a poster said that she had heard from inside sources that the perp was a girl. Now the latest report states that the authorities won't release information on the perp's gender.

My guess, is that the perp is a girl. It is said that Elizabeth knew her killer. I'm thinking perhaps the motive for the killing was over a boy. Maybe the 15-year-old thought Elizabeth had a "crush" or "liked" the same boy the 15-year-old did. (of course if it turns out the murderer is a boy, then my theory is completely wrong.)

How long has Elizabeth's brother been in prison and how much older is he? Could it be the 15-year-old blamed Elizabeth for the brother being in prison?

[CC I See]

I've read two different reports: one saying the perp was a boy, another in which a poster said that she had heard from inside sources that the perp was a girl. Now the latest report states that the authorities won't release information on the perp's gender.

My guess, is that the perp is a girl. It is said that Elizabeth knew her killer. I'm thinking perhaps the motive for the killing was over a boy. Maybe the 15-year-old thought Elizabeth had a "crush" or "liked" the same boy the 15-year-old did. (of course if it turns out the murderer is a boy, then my theory is completely wrong.)

How long has Elizabeth's brother been in prison and how much older is he? Could it be the 15-year-old blamed Elizabeth for the brother being in prison?

This story adds to the confusion... about the timeline.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569416,00.html

[AmndaRcknwth]

I heard on radio news 3:00cst that it is a girl.

[darby]

I am new to this forum but I live within 2 miles of Elizabeth's home. My son works at a restaurant and overheard a police officer say that a 15-year-old "Goth" girl is in custody for the murder. I had automatically assumed the perp was a male...

I have nothing but respect for the sheriff and the rest of the law enforcement in the area - they are caring and dedicated and they did everything they could to find Elizabeth.

This area is indeed rural and beautiful. One of our children is in the same grade at the same school as Elizabeth. We feel numb.

[MissouriGMom]

I am new to this forum but I live within 2 miles of Elizabeth's home. My son works at a restaurant and overheard a police officer say that a 15-year-old "Goth" girl is in custody for the murder. I had automatically assumed the perp was a male...

I have nothing but respect for the sheriff and the rest of the law enforcement in the area - they are caring and dedicated and they did everything they could to find Elizabeth.

This area is indeed rural and beautiful. One of our children is in the same grade at the same school as Elizabeth. We feel numb.

Welcome, darby. I had a feeling it was a girl. This is so sad. Have your school counselors been there for the students at the school?

[MiamiNice1]

I am new to this forum but I live within 2 miles of Elizabeth's home. My son works at a restaurant and overheard a police officer say that a 15-year-old "Goth" girl is in custody for the murder. I had automatically assumed the perp was a male...

I have nothing but respect for the sheriff and the rest of the law enforcement in the area - they are caring and dedicated and they did everything they could to find Elizabeth.

This area is indeed rural and beautiful. One of our children is in the same grade at the same school as Elizabeth. We feel numb.

Welcome and thank you for bringing this info here, darby.

You're right, that it is a girl is always quite shocking. From the wording and how they phrased things, I was suspecting it to be a girl - even though it was hard to imagine.

This is a terrible week between Elizabeth Olten and Somer Thompson. Watching their mothers on TV has reduced me to tears, every single time. :crying:

:(

[darby]

The school has notified us that counselors will be available for students and parents to meet with. My daughter knew Elizabeth, but was not in the same "play group" on the playground.

[VC2]

I've read two different reports: one saying the perp was a boy, another in which a poster said that she had heard from inside sources that the perp was a girl. Now the latest report states that the authorities won't release information on the perp's gender.

My guess, is that the perp is a girl. It is said that Elizabeth knew her killer. I'm thinking perhaps the motive for the killing was over a boy. Maybe the 15-year-old thought Elizabeth had a "crush" or "liked" the same boy the 15-year-old did. (of course if it turns out the murderer is a boy, then my theory is completely wrong.)

How long has Elizabeth's brother been in prison and how much older is he? Could it be the 15-year-old blamed Elizabeth for the brother being in prison?

I am guessing a girl as well. Also wondering if there was any sexual assault because it is the first time i have heard any LE not give out the gender. (doesn't even have to be obviously sexual but some girls have been found with branches where they shouldn't be etc)

Also, the cop who said "he" i noticed last night everyone was saying "he" and then either trying to correct it to him/her or letting it go. I just think its more natural, they had been looking for a male perp, it normally is male etc etc.

[VC2]

Looks to me like he will never see his daughter because of THE KILLER'S stupid actions...

We all make mistakes.
He and his son will do their time and be released.
That should be all that is attributed to Elizabeth's father... as far as crimes..IMO

ITA!! and i don't really care what he is in prison for, she was still his daughter, that they could not have the chaplain notify him but leave him to learn of it on the news is inexcusable! Apart from anything else, if he was watching it in a common area he could have gone berserk with anger and grief, but basic humanity says you inform those locked up when their children get murdered directly not via news.

IMO

[VC2]

I am new to this forum but I live within 2 miles of Elizabeth's home. My son works at a restaurant and overheard a police officer say that a 15-year-old "Goth" girl is in custody for the murder. I had automatically assumed the perp was a male...

I have nothing but respect for the sheriff and the rest of the law enforcement in the area - they are caring and dedicated and they did everything they could to find Elizabeth.

This area is indeed rural and beautiful. One of our children is in the same grade at the same school as Elizabeth. We feel numb.

hugs Darby, thanks so much for the info on the gender, it fits everything else we have heard or not heard that it be a girl.

[Motomom]

I am guessing a girl as well. Also wondering if there was any sexual assault because it is the first time i have heard any LE not give out the gender. (doesn't even have to be obviously sexual but some girls have been found with branches where they shouldn't be etc)

Also, the cop who said "he" i noticed last night everyone was saying "he" and then either trying to correct it to him/her or letting it go. I just think its more natural, they had been looking for a male perp, it normally is male etc etc.

I was listening to fox news earlier and they said that LE was not releasing the 15 yr old's gender, I thought female then. Last night all I heard was he.. I'm wondering if this was more of a bullying thing.. Led her out to the woods, then killed her.. for no reason other than being the mean, cruel nasty person they must be.

[Serena]

So sorry to hear about the sad ending to this. The world is a scary place for little kids these days. And that a young teen is accused of the murder is shocking to me, even as jaded as I am.

[VC2]

So sorry to hear about the sad ending to this. The world is a scary place for little kids these days. And that a young teen is accused of the murder is shocking to me, even as jaded as I am.

the problem is that teens thinking can be twisted in the first place just by being teens..so for some who do things like this, it may not be the 'real' them but the confused warped self hating etc that some teens go through. I firmly believe in rehab for teens. The author "The Cater Street Hangman" and dozens of other victorian mysteries, Anne Perry, killed her friends mother with the friend. They bludgeoned her to death 47 times iirc, it was premeditated, they planned it and didn't stop. Reason? mom was moving her friend to another country and would be separating them. Tried as juveniles, they were released after 5 years (were 15 when they did it)and since then have led faultless lives. Her friend is very active in the catholic church and gives handicapped children riding lessons and of course Anne Perry writes wonderful books that draw me in to a different world, lives in the highlands of scotland now.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker-Hulme_murder

So ..i feel torn when i read about teen murderers male or female. I know they aren't adult and it has nothing to do with knowing right from wrong but becoming different people really by the time they are adults.

I will be curious to know the history of this girl (the one who killed her)
imo

[Santa'sMom]

Wow. Thank you for that information VC. That is really interesting. It is wonderful to read that the two girls managed to get their lives together and make something of themselves after doing something so horrible. It's a shame that the mom had to pay such a horrific price in the process. I agree, teens don't think in normal patterns. The biological changes in teens is frightening, at best. Again, thank you for that bit of information.

[withay]

the problem is that teens thinking can be twisted in the first place just by being teens..so for some who do things like this, it may not be the 'real' them but the confused warped self hating etc that some teens go through. I firmly believe in rehab for teens. The author "The Cater Street Hangman" and dozens of other victorian mysteries, Anne Perry, killed her friends mother with the friend. They bludgeoned her to death 47 times iirc, it was premeditated, they planned it and didn't stop. Reason? mom was moving her friend to another country and would be separating them. Tried as juveniles, they were released after 5 years (were 15 when they did it)and since then have led faultless lives. Her friend is very active in the catholic church and gives handicapped children riding lessons and of course Anne Perry writes wonderful books that draw me in to a different world, lives in the highlands of scotland now.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker-Hulme_murder

So ..i feel torn when i read about teen murderers male or female. I know they aren't adult and it has nothing to do with knowing right from wrong but becoming different people really by the time they are adults.

I will be curious to know the history of this girl (the one who killed her)
imo

One of Kate Winslet's first movies, "Heavenly Creatures" is about that case.

[smile]

I heard ...15 girl

I live a 4 ½ hours from Jefferson City, I am related to a great portion of the population in that area.
When I made a call to a relative on Thursday to see what they had heard, which was nothing. Friday as soon as their reliable source told them about finding her body they also told me that it was a 15 year old girl and why she said did it…

[wusooz]

Hello, and with great sorrow I join this board. mY heart is sick with the deaths of two precious angels. I just made contact with the Clinton Global Intitiative website to see if there is any way we can take this country back from the perverts and child killers out there. It doesn't matter what political perspective you are. Former President Clinton is asking for our help to make the world a better place. I asked him to help us develop a system where our kids could have a way of alerting someone if they are in trouble. I know we are are all against taxes, but what if a tax could save our innocent kids?????

[desmom]

I am new to this forum but I live within 2 miles of Elizabeth's home. My son works at a restaurant and overheard a police officer say that a 15-year-old "Goth" girl is in custody for the murder. I had automatically assumed the perp was a male...

I have nothing but respect for the sheriff and the rest of the law enforcement in the area - they are caring and dedicated and they did everything they could to find Elizabeth.

This area is indeed rural and beautiful. One of our children is in the same grade at the same school as Elizabeth. We feel numb.

Welcome to the Boards and thank you for sharing a little insight to the area.

I send my prayers and lots of hugs to your child Elizabeth's age, your family and your community.

[Motomom]

Why would you guess that the police are making such an issue about avoiding the gender? I read the article from public broadcasting where it was clearly reported this was a boy.

Why would they make such a big deal?

Maybe pure assumption on the reporter's part? IDK.. but if LE is not releasing the gender.. I find that strange and makes me think it's a bit shocking..meaning it's a girl.

[fastpitch]

I wonder if she was killed by her friend that she had been to visit? The police picked up this suspect awfully quick and I know they always start with the last person to have seen you.

When my boys were young they had a neighbor friend that was quite a bit older than them that they played baseball with.

I had been thinking that she had been to see another 9 YO, but I guess it could have been someone older.

[n/t]

Excellent post spacemonkey!! Bullying is a serious problem in schools. We've heard stories of children committing suicide because they were bullied and stories of children murdering other children. Very frightening.

Glad they have a suspect. I hope he/she faces justice to the fullest and not just a slap on the wrist.

[MissouriGMom]

Thank you. Yes....unfortunately we know all too well about bullying in MO....home of that wicked vile pig Lori Drew.

The good thing is that Missouri doesn't play around when it comes to violent crime. I'm fairly confident that the POI will end up being charged as an adult for first degree murder. If the POI is indeed 15 that would rule out the death penalty....so life imprisonment would be the max sentence.

A unbiased jury pool is going to be tough to find around here. Mark Richardson, the Cole County Prosecutor, has an abysmal court room record. The guy is really a hack by all accounts. I'm not a legal eagle so I don't how that will all work out. I kinda hope they move the whole mess out of town and somehow get the feds involved. The FBI was supposedly involved at the crime scene.

The secret won't hold long when Monday morning classes start...folks will be looking for the empty seats and matching up names. The kids will probably know for sure before most of the adults....if they don't already know. I'm very curious to find out whether any of the social networking sites play a role in this mess.

Welcome spacemonkey, and thank you for your posts.

You're probably right. The kids already know. Too sad for the entire community. So many lives have been, and will be destroyed.

[cuddlyrunner]

On another board they are saying that the 15 year old girl has been held back at school, does that happen often over there-it doesn't here.Would that make a difference to being charged as an adult or child?
I'm assuming that most people from the town concerned will know who has been arrested.

These cases are such a tragedy :-(

[n/t]

Thank you. Yes....unfortunately we know all too well about bullying in MO....home of that wicked vile pig Lori Drew.

The good thing is that Missouri doesn't play around when it comes to violent crime. I'm fairly confident that the POI will end up being charged as an adult for first degree murder. If the POI is indeed 15 that would rule out the death penalty....so life imprisonment would be the max sentence.

A unbiased jury pool is going to be tough to find around here. Mark Richardson, the Cole County Prosecutor, has an abysmal court room record. The guy is really a hack by all accounts. I'm not a legal eagle so I don't how that will all work out. I kinda hope they move the whole mess out of town and somehow get the feds involved. The FBI was supposedly involved at the crime scene.

The secret won't hold long when Monday morning classes start...folks will be looking for the empty seats and matching up names. The kids will probably know for sure before most of the adults....if they don't already know. I'm very curious to find out whether any of the social networking sites play a role in this mess.

I wonder if the POI will get a lesser sentence because he/she led them to the body? There are always loopholes that I worry about.

[MissouriGMom]

On another board they are saying that the 15 year old girl has been held back at school, does that happen often over there-it doesn't here.Would that make a difference to being charged as an adult or child?
I'm assuming that most people from the town concerned will know who has been arrested.

These cases are such a tragedy :-(

It's not uncommon to be held back here, especially if it is in kindergarten or 1st grade. That should make no difference. One of the main reasons for being retained is immaturity.

[fastpitch]

Wow, that was easy. In Google put in the word Twitter and then cut and paste one of the quotes.

[Motomom]

I was just reading a link about the first degree murder charges.. trying to understand, if this person is charged as an adult, we'll hear more, if not we'll wait till trial?? When will they decide on adult or juvenile?

[GentleBreeze]

I was just reading a link about the first degree murder charges.. trying to understand, if this person is charged as an adult, we'll hear more, if not we'll wait till trial?? When will they decide on adult or juvenile?

I would think the DA will have a hearing with the Judge soon about bringing adult charges.

Since a person of 12 years of age or older can be tried as an adult in this state, I do see her/him being tried as an adult especially if the murder was a premeditated one.

imo

[jakee]

Wow, that was easy. In Google put in the word Twitter and then cut and paste one of the quotes.

I tried and it doesn't work for me. I guess I am doing something wrong.
:confused:

[cuddlyrunner]

wow, I didn't know you could pull up court records on people over there on the internet! I'm pretty sure you can't over here!In fact I'm sure you can't, one of our former pupils was killed in a car accident a couple of weeks ago, the driver has been charged but his name hasn't been released to the press. Of course, as in this case everyone in the village knows who it is.

[fastpitch]

That's OK. The name I came up with seems to be a common (although you wouldn't think so) name as a successful athlete. I found three young women with the same name.

There is not much on the Twitter except a thumbnail.

I am wondering if we are going down the wrong path. MOO

[AmndaRcknwth]

I came up with AB.

[MissouriGMom]

I came up with AB.

Yes, and when you google her name you come up with a page that does seem to fit. She mentions driving (you can get a learner's permit here at 15). Also mentions being hungry and gmas makin eggs. Location somewhere i don't wana be.

Yep, this is the one spacemonkey is talking about.

[Kip]

I tried and it doesn't work for me. I guess I am doing something wrong.
:confused:

I just PM'ed you with the link.

[desmom]

School Board to hold special meeting reacting to student's death
http://www.newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/25/news_local/067local06board09.txt

Volunteers, officers thanked for help in Olten case
http://newstribune.com/articles/2009/10/25/news_local/067local04olten09.txt

Prosecutors Seek First Degree Murder Charge in Olten Case
http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/89980de5-80ce-0971-0067-b2df3f4e12d5
With Olten's body, came the formal charge from Juvenile Court Administrator Michael Couty.

"Alleging a 15-year-old committed an offensive murder in the first degree," Couty concluded.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/c500-599/5650000020.htm
First degree murder, penalty--person under sixteen years of age not to receive death penalty.

565.020. 1. A person commits the crime of murder in the first degree if he knowingly causes the death of another person after deliberation upon the matter.

2. Murder in the first degree is a class A felony, and the punishment shall be either death or imprisonment for life without eligibility for probation or parole, or release except by act of the governor; except that, if a person has not reached his sixteenth birthday at the time of the commission of the crime, the punishment shall be imprisonment for life without eligibility for probation or parole, or release except by act of the governor.

[Chica]

Would you PM me the link also? TIA

Would somene pm the link to me, too. I tried twitter, but ng.

[IvySterling]

I tried and it doesn't work for me. I guess I am doing something wrong.
:confused:
Me too!:unsure:

[lune3]

Bullying?? Elizabeth was 9 YEARS OLD and this perp is 15. Teenagers are going beyond bullying kids their own ages and now pick on little girls??? It's disgusting.

I have a sick feeling that a lot more went on with this despicable murder than the result of bullying.

What in God's name is the world coming to?

[GentleBreeze]

Bullying?? Elizabeth was 9 YEARS OLD and this perp is 15. Teenagers are going beyond bullying kids their own ages and now pick on little girls??? It's disgusting.

I have a sick feeling that a lot more went on with this despicable murder than the result of bullying.

What in God's name is the world coming to?

In a prior post it was said that the perpetrator may have been into "goth" so I wonder if this is going to be another Scott Dyleski case where another teenager fantasized about murdering someone and then carried it out?

imo

[Justice4all]

Would you PM me the link also? TIA

If you get a link will you send it to me please. Thank you ma'am.

[Sunnybrook]

Hi, this is my first post here. You are a great bunch of posters and I appreciate that there isn't a lot of rumor-spreading here. This case and the FL 7 yr old girl just have me down this week. :(

That said, I found this comment and thought it was interesting since it seems to be from someone that is close to the situation. She mentions TWO juveniles. I hope it's ok to post it here. If not, please delete. It's the cached version:

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:jsjrJnSKGY0J:community.babycenter.c om/post/a17243685/another_child_murdered...unbelievable_sadness+%22o lten%22+patty&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
I don't even know what to say to Patty Olten. What could I possibly say that would help her now? Nothing. I'm sorry, Patty. I really am. My heart is breaking for you and your family. I wish I could put my hands on the throats of these two JUVENILES who took your baby away from you. But even if I did, Elizabeth will still be gone and that sucks. That is UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

(end)

There's more to the comment, but I wasn't sure if the language would be acceptable here. Anyway, what do you think? Seems like that 15 yr old had to have some help just from what I've read from descriptions of her. We've only heard about one person being charged though.

:confused:

P.S. I've had no luck with finding the myspace or twitter comments either.

[VC2]

very interesting sunnybrook.

It so happens that on another board someone mentioned she only had two followers on twitter, one in another country and that she seemed to be twittering for both herself and another person. That could tie into the 2nd one.

Perhaps it is the 2nd (if there is a second) who turned in the first one? I can't believe that one would be arrested and the other let free.

I am so confused on this case, its ridiculous not to release at least the gender of the person. Hardly as if people in town won't know and it will get out. I just dont' understand the absolute secrecy..all i can think is of someone higher up..but then i hear the family of the one most think it is, does not have that sort of pre eminence, the opposite actually.

imo

[Sunnybrook]

Hi VC2. I'm confused too by LE's actions. How could they have "solved" this already without more searches, etc? (Like the teen's home. Or has that already been done and I missed reading about it?) I read one article that said the teen led them to her grave. Must have been a confession then? Sorry, but I'm way behind in this case and haven't been able to read everything here. I could just be wondering things that have already been discussed here.

It just hit me that this poster (linked in my first comment) wrote "Patty Olten" instead of using the last name I've seen in news articles. Perhaps she's just an acquaintance and is going off something she only "heard" about two juveniles.

[n/t]

If there are 2, maybe one of them spilled the beans. Could be why there's confusion as to gender. I have a feeling the teen didn't confess to LE but bragged about it to someone.....that's why they had the written trail.

[kelloggirl]

Hi VC2. I'm confused too by LE's actions. How could they have "solved" this already without more searches, etc? (Like the teen's home. Or has that already been done and I missed reading about it?) I read one article that said the teen led them to her grave. Must have been a confession then? Sorry, but I'm way behind in this case and haven't been able to read everything here. I could just be wondering things that have already been discussed here.

It just hit me that this poster (linked in my first comment) wrote "Patty Olten" instead of using the last name I've seen in news articles. Perhaps she's just an acquaintance and is going off something she only "heard" about two juveniles.

Hi Sunnybrook, if I recall correctly, LE said they found written evidence of the crime that led them to the suspect. Upon interrogation, the suspect confessed and led LE to the body, which was in an area already searched by police but was so well concealed that they missed it the first time.

[Mo.Gramma]

:rose::rose::rose: For Elizabeth and her family.....so very sad

[darby]

You are correct that the kids here in the area know exactly who is in custody. When I read the earlier post suspecting that, I asked my son (who goes to Jeff City High School) and he knows. He says that it is a 15-year old girl (he still says Goth) and is a sophomore. He hasn't heard why she did it. I also asked if there was anyone else involved and he hasn't heard of anyone.

From this morning's local paper: They are planning to try her as an adult on first degree murder charges. They won't release any more details so they can have a strong case, even though they realize it would be "cathartic" for the community (I appreciate that they understand we're all wondering wondering...) Sheriff Greg White did state that the "event" appears to have occurred just prior to or at the time Elizabeth was reported missing.

[Sunnybrook]

Thanks, Kelloggirl.

This is the first time I've seen "confidential law enforcement sources say it's a girl" on a news site:
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=367283
See Sunday Update 8:27 p.m.

The police force can't be that big there, can it? Someone is leaking the news....

Darby, how is your son dealing with this?

[withay]

You are correct that the kids here in the area know exactly who is in custody. When I read the earlier post suspecting that, I asked my son (who goes to Jeff City High School) and he knows. He says that it is a 15-year old girl (he still says Goth) and is a sophomore. He hasn't heard why she did it. I also asked if there was anyone else involved and he hasn't heard of anyone.

From this morning's local paper: They are planning to try her as an adult on first degree murder charges. They won't release any more details so they can have a strong case, even though they realize it would be "cathartic" for the community (I appreciate that they understand we're all wondering wondering...) Sheriff Greg White did state that the "event" appears to have occurred just prior to or at the time Elizabeth was reported missing.

While I understand that people want to know "why" for reassurance that it is not likely to happen again in the same area (and that they have the right person). I also understand that LE needs to make sure they have all of the facts to make the case tight. It is also good to know that even faster action on the part of LE could not have prevented this. It also makes it more likely that the end came quickly for Elizabeth and she did not suffer for long. I am also glad that her family did not have to wait long to have her returned to them. I imagine it is the not knowing that is hardest.

[darby]

My son does not know the suspect, but knows people who know her...he and his friends are as puzzled as the rest of us and seem "weirded out" by all of it.

In response to an earlier poster, the papers reported that written and physical evidence led the police to the suspect who then led them to the body.

[Sunnybrook]

Thank you, Darby.

Withay, I want to know so much more NOW but, like you said, I realize LE is doing the right thing. Seems like the more people use the internet, the less LE is sharing much info anymore. :glare:

[Doorbell]

Here's a link I found in which a "confidential source" in the investigation states that the accused is, indeed, a girl:

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=367283

[Doorbell]

There is a definite pall over this area. It's felt like that since last week. The constant grey and rain isn't helping.

The powers that be in town are in full scramble mode. JC is notorious for the local politics resembling a game of 3 card monty.

I'd go so far to say that the name of the suspect is near common knowledge locally by now.

The idiot at the local juvenile facility is already talking to reporters about counseling and such. If it wasn't a female I suspect that would not be the case.
It just chaps my @ss frankly.

I suspect once the circumstances of the case and the ID of the suspect are revealed there is going to be a huge spotlight aimed at JC.
What they find ain't gonna be pretty.

Thanks for your insight, Spacemonkey. County politics seems to be a bit...selective, shall I say...here, too.

[AmndaRcknwth]

Hi, this is my first post here. You are a great bunch of posters and I appreciate that there isn't a lot of rumor-spreading here. This case and the FL 7 yr old girl just have me down this week. :(

That said, I found this comment and thought it was interesting since it seems to be from someone that is close to the situation. She mentions TWO juveniles. I hope it's ok to post it here. If not, please delete. It's the cached version:

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:jsjrJnSKGY0J:community.babycenter.c om/post/a17243685/another_child_murdered...unbelievable_sadness+%22o lten%22+patty&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
I don't even know what to say to Patty Olten. What could I possibly say that would help her now? Nothing. I'm sorry, Patty. I really am. My heart is breaking for you and your family. I wish I could put my hands on the throats of these two JUVENILES who took your baby away from you. But even if I did, Elizabeth will still be gone and that sucks. That is UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

(end)

There's more to the comment, but I wasn't sure if the language would be acceptable here. Anyway, what do you think? Seems like that 15 yr old had to have some help just from what I've read from descriptions of her. We've only heard about one person being charged though.

:confused:

P.S. I've had no luck with finding the myspace or twitter comments either.

I wondered how "she" got Elizabeth to the remote well-hidden spot. If there are 2 involved, they could easily drag her, but wouldn't it be pretty hard for a 15 yr old girl alone?
Unles she lured Elizabeth to that exact spot and had planned to do it there.

What is the buzz about COD? Anyone?

[fastpitch]

I think it would be easy to lure her to the woods. Elizabeth knew her abductor. What 9 YO wouldn't run in there to see "puppies, etc.?" MOO

[Doorbell]

I think it would be easy to lure her to the woods. Elizabeth knew her abductor. What 9 YO wouldn't run in there to see "puppies, etc.?" MOO

According to the reports (though it might be rumor), Elizabeth was not accosted along her way home. The person of interest was a resident of the house she was visiting. Therefore, the puppies thing would not work; why would they not be at the house?

I have been reading several forums about his case, and apologize for having forgotten what I read where, but somewhere it was suggested that the killer might have snatched Elizabeth's phone and run off into the woods with it. That seemed to me to be a more likely lure.

I guess we will find out eventually...

[n/t]

I must've missed the report that said the POI was a resident of the house Elizabeth was visiting. I only remember reading that the POI was an acquaintance.

Anybody have a link? I'd like to read it.

[Doorbell]

I must've missed the report that said the POI was a resident of the house Elizabeth was visiting. I only remember reading that the POI was an acquaintance.

Anybody have a link? I'd like to read it.

I apologize for not having a link. I have been reading at WS, SM, and three different news sites, and it may have been in the comments there.

[Riverwalk!]

I must've missed the report that said the POI was a resident of the house Elizabeth was visiting. I only remember reading that the POI was an acquaintance.

Anybody have a link? I'd like to read it.

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=367283

Residents said the 15-year-old is a girl, and lived at the house Elizabeth was supposedly coming home from. However, White will not confirm that information.

MUCH more at link.

[Doorbell]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=367283

Residents said the 15-year-old is a girl, and lived at the house Elizabeth was supposedly coming home from. However, White will not confirm that information.

MUCH more at link.

Thank you so much! All I would have had to do would be to read my own previous link...just goes to show how badly my brain is fried by this case!:blushing:

[Riverwalk!]

Thank you so much! All I would have had to do would be to read my own previous link...just goes to show how badly my brain is fried by this case!:blushing:

I know what you mean. I was gone all weekend and was catching up and read your link (above), so I reposted it. It is hard to keep all these links straight without a Sticky Link thread to go by.

[desmom]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=367283

Residents said the 15-year-old is a girl, and lived at the house Elizabeth was supposedly coming home from. However, White will not confirm that information.

MUCH more at link.

Thank you for the link. The October 26, 2009 at 9:06 a.m. comment suggests everyone take a minute and imagine themselves as a scared 15 year old in a cold dank cell? What about Elizabeth!!!!!:cursing:

[desmom]

I had a coffee with a friend who happens to be very plugged into the local law enforcement.

He said the facts in this case are absolutely horrific. There was most definitely premeditation....think a "thrill kill" kinda thing. There was a knife and strangulation involved....and apparently there was mutilation of the body post death. There is an abundance of physical evidence in the case...including the murder weapon(s). The decision to go with a charge of first degree murder was an easy one.

The ID of the suspect is common knowledge locally. The only folks that don't know are the ones who have consciously avoided the subject.

And as if all that wasn't enough....a popular English teacher at JCHS died suddenly morning. They are bringing in counselors for the students.

I'm beginning to think the whole town needs counseling.

Thank you for the update.

[Doorbell]

I had a coffee with a friend who happens to be very plugged into the local law enforcement.

He said the facts in this case are absolutely horrific. There was most definitely premeditation....think a "thrill kill" kinda thing. There was a knife and strangulation involved....and apparently there was mutilation of the body post death. There is an abundance of physical evidence in the case...including the murder weapon(s). The decision to go with a charge of first degree murder was an easy one.

The ID of the suspect is common knowledge locally. The only folks that don't know are the ones who have consciously avoided the subject.

And as if all that wasn't enough....a popular English teacher at JCHS died suddenly morning. They are bringing in counselors for the students.

I'm beginning to think the whole town needs counseling.

My husband was a popular teacher at a local middle school, and counselors were brought in when he died. How awful for your community, to have such trauma. I imagine that the ministers at many churches will be working overtime.

Thanks for the update. Next stop: a beauty salon. A wash and set should bring in further news...

[lune3]

Thank you for the link. The October 26, 2009 at 9:06 a.m. comment suggests everyone take a minute and imagine themselves as a scared 15 year old in a cold dank cell? What about Elizabeth!!!!!:cursing:

I'm just shocked with this crime. I don't care what this 15 year old girl's background is. If she was suffering from angst, into violent fantasies, addicted to whatever drugs, is the product of a dysfunctional family or whatever, she acted out and committed a murder, killed a 9 year old little girl. Lots of teenagers have awful lives and go through horrible stages, and fantasize horrible things, but to actually have the capability to do such a thing, she has no inner conscience ..no, this girl is intrinsically evil and there are no excuses. IMO

[desmom]

I'm just shocked with this crime. I don't care what this 15 year old girl's background is. If she was suffering from angst, into violent fantasies, addicted to whatever drugs, is the product of a dysfunctional family or whatever, she acted out and committed a murder, killed a 9 year old little girl. Lots of teenagers have awful lives and go through horrible stages, and fantasize horrible things, but to actually have the capability to do such a thing, she has no inner conscience ..no, this girl is intrinsically evil and there are no excuses. IMO


I agree!

.

[n/t]

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=367283

Residents said the 15-year-old is a girl, and lived at the house Elizabeth was supposedly coming home from. However, White will not confirm that information.

MUCH more at link.

Thanks! Again, we ask ourselves, why?

[Leanne Weich]

I agree!

.

Me too. Looking back at my own girls at 15, they definitely knew wrong from right and, in fact, did so long before the age of 15. Then again, they're not evil.

[Marcia3]

For those looking for the twitter account:

Google the last quote above: "addiction takes over...." + twitter And you will get the page.

Thanks...that brought up a Twitter page...disturbing, but probably tame compared to other teens' today. Did you catch the quote from August 4th:

holy ****, i almost died last night xD

Strange...

[AmndaRcknwth]

This young girl is quite a sadistic one. IMO.

[Marcia3]

This teacher worked at the same school that AB attended. I've no idea whether there is/was any connection whatsoever.

What a mess.
What's next??

This is going to turn into a media feeding frenzy....I can just feel it in my bones.

Wow...what are the odds?

You're right, it's a mess. And I also think you're right, this story could become the focus of media for a while...until the next really gruesome crime takes hold.

One of the articles linked here mentioned post-mortem mutilation.

My heart goes out to Elizabeth's family and all those who loved her.

[moonlite]

[QUOTE=spacemonkey;13590146]I had a coffee with a friend who happens to be very plugged into the local law enforcement.

He said the facts in this case are absolutely horrific. There was most definitely premeditation....think a "thrill kill" kinda thing. There was a knife and strangulation involved....and apparently there was mutilation of the body post death. There is an abundance of physical evidence in the case...including the murder weapon(s). The decision to go with a charge of first degree murder was an easy one.

The ID of the suspect is common knowledge locally. The only folks that don't know are the ones who have consciously avoided the subject.

And as if all that wasn't enough....a popular English teacher at JCHS died suddenly morning. They are bringing in counselors for the students.

Greetings'
spacemonkey"

So the police think the motive for the murder is "thrill kill"? Has this POI' been in trouble before? Do you know what type of home life this POI' had?

Moonlite

[tv4me]

This reminds me of another case a long while ago where a young teen befriended the school outcast with the plan to kill him. He said that he thought killing someone "would be fun." He felt no one would miss the kid and that's why he chose him. He lead his "new" friend into the woods to "show" him something and then hit him in the back of the head with a brick. The killer then beat and stabbed the boy to death.

Maybe this 15-year-old felt that same thing. She wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone and thought no one would miss Elizabeth...what with Elizabeth's dad and brother in prison.

Perhaps she, like the young killer before her, offered false friendship and the chance to see something very special in the woods. I don't think it would have been hard for her to get Elizabeth to go with her.

[tootie]

Haven't heard "thrill kill" officially yet....but that's the word around the courthouse. I've no idea if the suspect has had prior legal issues. Her biological parents apparently are dirtbags. Dad is in prison...mom in and out of jail...drugs, assaults, theft, fraud....real renaissance lowlifes....
The parents are/were dysfunctional to the point the grandparents went to court to get legal custody of the children...AB is the oldest...there are younger siblings. God knows what happened to AB as a child....but I can't find it in my heart to even begin to justify her alleged act.

The grandparents are by all accounts decent people....although I've seen some internet chatter today speculating that they hindered the investigation...no idea about that.

I've also read the GPs ran a daycare out of the home. If that's true it is very very frightening.

In speaking with my friend....neither of us could ever remember a similar case with a single juvenile female perp doing such a horrendous crime. The cases we could recall all had groups of teens...and some others with a single male perp. This is a very unusual case for that reason alone.

My friend is also very familiar with the Olten clan. He said they are straight up dirtbag criminals and absolutely belong in prison where they are. He didn't seem to think that MO Dept of Corrections would be allowing them to attend the funeral.

I was trying to think of a female suspect who acted alone in killing and I was brought to mind of Mary Bell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bell). She was thought to commit the first murder by herself at the age of 10 and the second murder at age 11 she had an accomplice. Very disturbing case indeed.

Prayers for Elizabeth and her family and friends. :rose:

[ms1950]

I just can't wrap myself around the idea that LE's first instinct was to state that "no foul play" is involved. How did they know that early on? Also, the fact that Elizabeth's mother called the police so very soon...did they go looking for her, or did they just call the cops? Perhaps, Elizabeth's mom had good reason to call the police as quickly as she did. I know that if my child took too long to get home, I would first search EVERYWHERE, make calls... It just seems to me that "foul play" was suspect immediately by Elizabeth's mother even though LE did not agree. Why no amber alert? It just doesn't add up to me.

JMO

[Justice4all]

I just can't wrap myself around the idea that LE's first instinct was to state that "no foul play" is involved. How did they know that early on? Also, the fact that Elizabeth's mother called the police so very soon...did they go looking for her, or did they just call the cops? Perhaps, Elizabeth's mom had good reason to call the police as quickly as she did. I know that if my child took too long to get home, I would first search EVERYWHERE, make calls... It just seems to me that "foul play" was suspect immediately by Elizabeth's mother even though LE did not agree. Why no amber alert? It just doesn't add up to me.

JMO

Great questions.......I hope one day LE gives us some answers.

[meshell]

Did anyone notice her follower "murderotic"? How freaky!!!

[meshell]

(follower on Twitter) What a senseless crime...I would think seeing her posts on Twitter, someone could of noticed her need for help????

[tootie]

I just read an article that states the brother and father of Elizabeth will not be allowed to attend visitation or funeral. How sad.

[moonlite]

Haven't heard "thrill kill" officially yet....but that's the word around the courthouse. I've no idea if the suspect has had prior legal issues. Her biological parents apparently are dirtbags. Dad is in prison...mom in and out of jail...drugs, assaults, theft, fraud....real renaissance lowlifes....
The parents are/were dysfunctional to the point the grandparents went to court to get legal custody of the children...AB is the oldest...there are younger siblings. God knows what happened to AB as a child....but I can't find it in my heart to even begin to justify her alleged act.

The grandparents are by all accounts decent people....although I've seen some internet chatter today speculating that they hindered the investigation...no idea about that.

I've also read the GPs ran a daycare out of the home. If that's true it is very very frightening.

In speaking with my friend....neither of us could ever remember a similar case with a single juvenile female perp doing such a horrendous crime. The cases we could recall all had groups of teens...and some others with a single male perp. This is a very unusual case for that reason alone.

My friend is also very familiar with the Olten clan. He said they are straight up dirtbag criminals and absolutely belong in prison where they are. He didn't seem to think that MO Dept of Corrections would be allowing them to attend the funeral.

Greetings'
Spacemonkey'

Thanks for your input. I agree there is no excuse for what this teenager did to Elizabeth.

Moonlite

[Brown Bear]

I just read an article that states the brother and father of Elizabeth will not be allowed to attend visitation or funeral. How sad.


Do you have a link?

[desmom]

Warrant served on Olten's neighbor
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=367986

Elizabeth Olten funeral arrangements
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=367988

[tootie]

Do you have a link?

Last paragraph. http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=367988

[Brown Bear]

Last paragraph. http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/story.aspx?id=367988


Thank you!:biggrin:

[fastpitch]

I guess that is MO. policy, though. Are there no exceptions? I wonder if it has always been that way, or if it is because of recent budget cut backs?

This family just has had it way too hard.

[n/t]

You do the crime, you do the time. Sorry,,,,,I have no compassion for these lowlifes. He should've thought of his family before committing the crime that put him away for 6 years. Did he do that? No. He was greedy and selfish and had no respect for Elizabeth in life. How can he respect her in death?

That's all I have to say on that topic.

[doctor_J]

Good Grief! What's up with this Missouri media machine? No bribe-able LE officials in this town? No unethical judicial officers? Practically nothing has been printed about this horrific child murder. Not even the sex of the POI. No address. No COD. Nothing.

Well, it's obvious that everyone involved is on the ball about protecting this juvenile's rights. That's a good thing. Don't want any reason for this evil blossoming predator to get off with a little jive detention until she turns 21. God forbid that she ever sees another sunrise that's not beamed into a cage via satellite.

I have NO sympathy for this 15 yr. old and absolutely no hope that she can be rehabbed. Apologies to VC2 regarding her favorite author (a story that is highly suspect to be embellished for publicity). I think she is damaged goods -- a bad seed if you will. The world needs protection from her for the rest of her worthless life. Of course, that's assuming the rumors are true and that this was a premeditated vicious execution of this beautiful, trusting child.

I don't know if such predators are born or made. I suspect it's a combination of both. But by 15, she's capable of giving birth and being emancipated. She's capable of differentiating right from wrong and evil from good. Teen-age angst can result in many bad decisions, sometimes causing lifelong consequences but NOT MURDER WITH MALICE AFORETHOUGHT. That requires a special kind of damage to a personality for which there is not yet a cure. Her abusive or negligent childhood is no excuse. Many of us have survived as bad and in my case, much worse, and went on to lead productive lives. We manage to develop compassion, ofttimes more so than had we not endured our unfortunate beginnings.

This juvenile should certainly be tried as an adult and sentenced as an adult. She committed the worst possible adult crime. God help the ones in her community when she finally is released.

I just think about the family, the mother. How do you live with this? She deserves to see justice. That's going to be impossible, since this young person is not DP eligible, but hopefully she'll get something close. A 6 X 8 cage, toilet, and a thin mattress should be it for the next 30 or so years and I would not feel badly if she got LIFE. It's still going to be much better than she gave this innocent 9 yr. old.

[Chica]

I guess that is MO. policy, though. Are there no exceptions? I wonder if it has always been that way, or if it is because of recent budget cut backs?

This family just has had it way too hard.

I know someone who was in jail for drugs in Canada waiting for bail or surety to be posted when his father died. He could not attend the funeral either. So, I guess you do the crime, you do the time. He is out on bail now awaiting sentencing. I imagine committing this crime had far more reaching ramifications than he ever imagined. And I bet he will never do it again.

[n/t]

Excellent post, Dr. J, as always.

[lune3]

Excellent post, Dr. J, as always.

Yes, I agree 110%.

Much better said than I did earlier.

[ms1950]

[QUOTE=doctor_J;13591338]Good Grief! What's up with this Missouri media machine? No bribe-able LE officials in this town? No unethical judicial officers? Practically nothing has been printed about this horrific child murder. Not even the sex of the POI. No address. No COD. Nothing. <respectfully snipped>



ITA doctor_J! As a matter of fact I was just commenting on a media story about this very thing. It seems to me that this case is "cut and dried". "Tainting the jury pool"...I am so sick of this terminology! Is that meant to say that no juror has a mind of their own? I think good coverage and transparency are good for the community and helps to make the public aware that LE is doing a good job.

The facts are the facts. I can see withholding information if a suspect has not been charged but for Pete's sake this girl has been charged and is being held. No surprises there. Unless they feel that there are accomplises, their silence is bad PR for the County and the state.

JMO

[fastpitch]

I researched a little and some states do allow funeral visits. MO. does not. No exceptions.

02-13-2009, 07:13 PM
Not in Missouri. Not even for a mother/father. No exceptions. We recently faced this and he was told absolutely not. He is not an escape risk nor has he had ANY bad conduct whatsoever and it was his mother.

So, its like conjugal visits, depends on the state. But in Mo. is a big,fat,NO. (Prisontalk.com)

[doctor_J]

I think they have to treat this as a case of a juvenile offender until the judge rules that she can be tried as an adult. Following that, we should receive more transparency. The juvenile laws protect privacy and if they breach that, they could risk angering the court and having the prosecutions's request denied.

[lune3]

I researched a little and some states do allow funeral visits. MO. does not. No exceptions.

02-13-2009, 07:13 PM
Not in Missouri. Not even for a mother/father. No exceptions. We recently faced this and he was told absolutely not. He is not an escape risk nor has he had ANY bad conduct whatsoever and it was his mother.

So, its like conjugal visits, depends on the state. But in Mo. is a big,fat,NO. (Prisontalk.com)

I'm not 100% sure but I believe Farah Fawcett's son, Redmond, in prison on drug charges, attended her memorial/funeral in CA. I do know that he was allowed to see her one time when she was still ill. I don't know though whether exceptions are made for celebrities...I would hope not, hope that all are treated equally.

[doradoll]

I just read an article that states the brother and father of Elizabeth will not be allowed to attend visitation or funeral. How sad.

sorry, I don't feel a bit sad about it

who should be able to go and where would you draw the line?

they weren't carrying around that much meth and guns for no reason (not to mention the missing accomplice/witness Jasmine); that next kid not getting on meth and ripping his family and his future apart should be glad that a prison sentence is enforced

I have two close family members in prison now for meth and I would say the same to them.

[cantstandnuts]

I felt bad for the Dad at first. You're sitting there, whether it's the prison or your couch at home, and you find out that your child is dead. OUCH. Horrible, shouldn't happen to anyone.

But, when he commited a crime, he knew there could be consequences. If he thought of those first and they mattered to him, he wouldn't be where he is today, having to find out that she was dead via T.V...and not able to attend her funeral.

So, I no longer feel sorry for this man.

[cantstandnuts]

Missouri doesn't coddle the prison population in any way.

I'd bet a fair amount that this suspect, once proven guilty, will never step foot outside of a prison for the rest of their life.

Personally I think it's a waste of money to warehouse any such killer, regardless of age or gender. First degree murderers deserve a final meal and a sharp needle as far as I'm concerned.

LOL, why do they even deserve the meal? It's not like they're going to be needing it.

I wish there was some way we could tell for sure which they would prefer so we could do the opposite. Keep them living (their worst nightmare) or kill them quick (their worst nightmare.)

Either way, I want it to be their worst nightmare; a little more justice than what our courts provide today, IMO.

[Chica]

I think they have to treat this as a case of a juvenile offender until the judge rules that she can be tried as an adult. Following that, we should receive more transparency. The juvenile laws protect privacy and if they breach that, they could risk angering the court and having the prosecutions's request denied.

Absolutely. Until it is decided whether she will be tried as an adult, no information will be forthcoming.

[doradoll]

I felt bad for the Dad at first. You're sitting there, whether it's the prison or your couch at home, and you find out that your child is dead. OUCH. Horrible, shouldn't happen to anyone.

But, when he commited a crime, he knew there could be consequences. If he thought of those first and they mattered to him, he wouldn't be where he is today, having to find out that she was dead via T.V...and not able to attend her funeral.

So, I no longer feel sorry for this man.

Yeah, I feel sorry for Elizabeth. She is the one that needed a FATHER, not some selfish crank-head riding around in cars with guns and drugs. HE is the one that made that decision. He could have put his family first. I am sick of drug addicts. It is a choice.

[Chica]

Missouri doesn't coddle the prison population in any way.

I'd bet a fair amount that this suspect, once proven guilty, will never step foot outside of a prison for the rest of their life.

Personally I think it's a waste of money to warehouse any such killer, regardless of age or gender. First degree murderers deserve a final meal and a sharp needle as far as I'm concerned.

I live in Mexico 6 months a year and let me tell you how it is down there. When you are imprisoned, your family and friends bring you food to eat. I think you get tortillas and eggs otherwise and you can be housed with no roof over your hear. And this is for prisoners who have not been found guilty of any crime at all. In prison, you must work for food. There is a prison near Villodolid, MX that sells beautiful hammocks made by the prisoners for pesos for food. I like that !

[cantstandnuts]

Yeah, I feel sorry for Elizabeth. She is the one that needed a FATHER, not some selfish crank-head riding around in cars with guns and drugs. HE is the one that made that decision. He could have put his family first. I am sick of drug addicts. It is a choice.

Drug addiction is, at first, a choice. But, it does take on a life of it's own soon enough. If he had never decided to take that first hit, it would have been different. But, since he did, it ended up being out of his control and pretty soon, he's packing heat and doing whatever for the fix.

I am not judging his crime, except that he commited one. For that, he has to suffer the consequences.

I am also sick of drug addiction, not so much the addicts. Most started out as good people and once sober, can again be good people.

Bottom line is he commited a crime and if that means he had to learn about his daughter via TV and can't go to her funeral? Oh well, maybe he shouldn't have taken that first hit. He had a choice at the beginning and he took the wrong one. Stinks for him. IMO.

[doctor_J]

The father and brother should not feel as bad about missing her funeral than by missing her life.. IF she had had a father and older brother she might not have been as vulnerable. Her family being in prison could have been a source of bullying and exclusion in school that made her feel disaffected. It could have contributed to making her a target. People with children should consider the damage a crime and incarceration will do to their kids but they don't seem to do that until something tragic happens.

[Chica]

The father and brother should not feel as bad about missing her funeral than by missing her life.. IF she had had a father and older brother she might not have been as vulnerable. Her family being in prison could have been a source of bullying and exclusion in school that made her feel disaffected. It could have contributed to making her a target. People with children should consider the damage a crime and incarceration will do to their kids but they don't seem to do that until something tragic happens.

If people who commit crimes thought about their children, they wouldn't do the crime.
Spacemonkey, I live near 50 km south of Cancun.