Beason 10/12, 10/13

[sinagua]

Here is a new thread, for a new week.

Hopefully some new information will be available concerning this horrific crime, today.

[GentleBreeze]

Here is a new thread, for a new week.

Hopefully some new information will be available concerning this horrific crime, today.

Morning!

Is the preliminary hearing still scheduled for Oct. 28?

I got confused about that on the other thread when someone said the DA was going to take it to a GJ instead.

imo

[AmndaRcknwth]

A couple days ago, we discussed Jason's ear. In his mugshot, it appeared injured. It isn't.
I found a clearer pic from a different site, and blew it up. No injury.
Yes, it is the same photo.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Gee%20-%20Constant%20Murders/doesntappeartobeinjury.jpg

You can compare, I left the original up.
Go here to see more:
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Gee%20-%20Constant%20Murders/

[AmndaRcknwth]

Morning!

Is the preliminary hearing still scheduled for Oct. 28?

I got confused about that on the other thread when someone said the DA was going to take it to a GJ instead.

imo

No clue about GJ, but I think Jason is to appear in court tomorrow.

Chris will be back in court Oct 28.

[AmndaRcknwth]

On another forum, I read that the family is under a gag order not to talk about the details of the crime scene.

Anyone have a link, or remember this stated in the media anywhere, either print or in a vid?

[VC2]

On another forum, I read that the family is under a gag order not to talk about the details of the crime scene.

Anyone have a link, or remember this stated in the media anywhere, either print or in a vid?

Can they honestly stop defendants families from speaking about what they know/think? I can see gagging the attornies on both sides, but to threaten a mom or wife with speaking out in defense with whatever she knows that would in her mind exculpate the defendant seems going to far. It sure wouldn't stop me, I would go to jail, insist on a quick trial and ensure that everyone including media then hears what i was saying during the trial. Plus it would take investigators and cops off the main case to prosecute mine.

Free speech of individuals should not be gagged and if the families want to defend their loved ones then so be it. Cops who were stupid enough to allow them to learn about the crime scene in the first place should be at fault, not the family.

IMO

[sinagua]

Can a judge order that for people that aren't under the authority of the court? I know they can order witnesses and juries and attorneys. But, if I was a 2nd cousin to an in law, he would have no authority over me.

I do feel that "relatives" shouldn't post on newspaper comment sections, but it is still a free world. If that is what they want to do, so be it. I hope my own family would remain silent.

I always doubt that they are truly family, anyway.

[Katherine]

On another forum, I read that the family is under a gag order not to talk about the details of the crime scene.

Anyone have a link, or remember this stated in the media anywhere, either print or in a vid?

I don't recall reading anything about a gag order being in place. I would think, for this to occur, it would have been written in a court order. Surely the media would have printed it somewhere. I think this "gag order" may be rumor, or said because someone did not want to talk about the case.

[KittyMom]

I'm impressed with the lack of leaks in this case. This LE runs a tight ship.

[sinagua]

Leaks generally come from locals that are interviewed by Geraldo, Nancy Grace, etc. But, no one involved in this case has been on the Today Show or Good Morning America.

I just saw Misty on GMA this morning saying nothing new about the missing girl, Haleigh.

I guess it is a good thing, but this Beason massacre isn't even on the national radar. moo

[darcie]

On another forum, I read that the family is under a gag order not to talk about the details of the crime scene.

Anyone have a link, or remember this stated in the media anywhere, either print or in a vid?

I have never seen anything about a gag order, I just know that Chris and Jason's stepmother, Debbie, told reporters (after Jason was arrested) that their lawyer told her to stop talking to the press.

Here is the link, and it's about 3/4 ways down the page.

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/article_454df094-b34f-11de-a81a-001cc4c002e0.html


Edited to add that most of us posters agreed with the lawyer. Debbie had a little TO much to say.

[corbi77]

Leaks generally come from locals that are interviewed by Geraldo, Nancy Grace, etc. But, no one involved in this case has been on the Today Show or Good Morning America.

I just saw Misty on GMA this morning saying nothing new about the missing girl, Haleigh.

I guess it is a good thing, but this Beason massacre isn't even on the national radar. moo

It was announced a couple times that Nancy Grace was going to have coverage of this on her show, but it never happened. Sheriff Nichols was asked at one of the PC's if he was concerned about her comment of him, and he replied that no he was not at all concerned about her.

[clueless]

I'm fairly new to the boards. Question: Why do we keep creating new threads and closing them. The one for motives was closed and "moved". Where did it go?

[happygert]

Imagine that no marks.. brutal murders of 5 people. and so far we haven't seen 1 scratch, bruise, cut, any hair loss on any of the accused. :shrug:

Also still waiting to see the grey primer truck with stacks..That Chris owned. or Jason for that matter

[kennedy06]

Clueless, I noticed one motive by M3t on page 4 of the 10/9 closed threads, so I'm sure they are mixed in there.

[happygert]

I don't recall reading anything about a gag order being in place. I would think, for this to occur, it would have been written in a court order. Surely the media would have printed it somewhere. I think this "gag order" may be rumor, or said because someone did not want to talk about the case.

Was there a gag order by the court no, but there is such a thing as I am telling you this information under the strictest confidence. You can not repeat this. Also the stepfather was one who found the bodies you dont think he didn't see some of the injuries inflected on his family and he's not wanting others to know all the Gory details. just my honest opinion.

Ricks real dad died when Rick was 5. How close was his dad family to Rick?

His aunt even said she had to read about the murders on the computer.

[sinagua]

We aren't closing them. The moderator is. The older conversation had a date attached to it, so it closed last night.

Also, threads are closed when they get off topic or argumentative.

Threads are also combined, (by the moderator) so that there aren't a lot of one question threads. Plus, none of us know what the motive might be, so all of that would be speculative.

moo

[happygert]

Clueless, I noticed one motive by M3t on page 4 of the 10/9 closed threads, so I'm sure they are mixed in there.

I'm more inclined to believe that theory about drugs, A lot of pot for your own personal use. However where we different on his theory is the People who committed the murders..

[JoAnn]

Now that Chris and Jason are arrested, it makes less sense that Jason's fiancee and her mother would obstruct justice for Chris' sake, and more sense that they would do it for Jason's sake.
--

aaah but by giving Chris an alibi..they also gave themselves one...if Jason, Jennifer and maybe her mom were with Chris and vice versa, then one alibi covers them all ...(well not actually in this case though thanks to Sheriff Nichols)

[JoAnn]

On another forum, I read that the family is under a gag order not to talk about the details of the crime scene.

Anyone have a link, or remember this stated in the media anywhere, either print or in a vid?
--

I haven't read anywhere that I recall that but I do recall reading that documents would be sealed...and I don't recall what it was referring to..it was in one of the links somewhere to the subpoenas I think, or maybe on Jasons arrest page and if you clicked on disposition that might be where I read that they were sealed...sorry to be so vague,sometimes it is very late at night when I read thru the postings.

[IlliniFan]

We have no idea if they have/had injuries. but..

I do find it interesting that John Warner Hopital was listed in the court documents....

[TennB]

Ricks real dad died when Rick was 5. How close was his dad family to Rick?

His aunt even said she had to read about the murders on the computer.[/QUOTE]

Happygert, I just would like you to clarify your statement. Are you suggesting that someone from his dad's family is responsible for these murders? As for his aunt having to read about the murders on the computer, that happened Monday evening, the day the bodies were found.

[Katherine]

In all fairness, with this type of crime, I am sure it hit the news very early. I can completely understand how out of town relatives would receive the news faster via the internet, and I don't think that means the family was not close. I assume that the family nearer the crime scene was completely blown away and attempting to help those right there vs. making phone calls. I can't imagine how awful it was for TennB and other relatives to learn of this in the manner they did.

[IM4Truth]

Something isn't working right with the quotes.

[happygert]

Ricks real dad died when Rick was 5. How close was his dad family to Rick?

His aunt even said she had to read about the murders on the computer.

Happygert, I just would like you to clarify your statement. Are you suggesting that someone from his dad's family is responsible for these murders? As for his aunt having to read about the murders on the computer, that happened Monday evening, the day the bodies were found.[/QUOTE]


TennB.

I never SAID THAT reread my post. Exactly, Carol read about it on the computer. Was asking how close Rick's dads family was to Rick if no one called her and she had to read it on the COMPUTER.

Please show me where I said anything about about Ricks dad's side being responsible for these murders.

[happygert]

I dont know what going on with the quotes but they sure are messed up.. sorry..

[IM4Truth]

happygert, you are confused. Rick's Aunt Carol lives right there in Lincoln and IIRC she stated in a newspaper that she had seen him within the last month.

[happygert]

Katherine, you could be right.. But My question is and was wonder why the other side of Ricks family was not notifed about The deaths?

[happygert]

happygert, you are confused. Rick's Aunt Carol lives right there in Lincoln and IIRC she stated in a newspaper that she had seen him within the last month.

No Im not confused, I know where Carol Lives and I also know her Husband was on Lincoln city police Dept. No confusion there..Just wondering why no one took it upon themselves to Call that side of the family instead of them having to read about it on computer.

[IM4Truth]

No Im not confused, I know where Carol Lives and I also know her Husband was on Lincoln city police Dept. No confusion there..Just wondering why no one took it upon themselves to Call that side of the family instead of them having to read about it on computer.

It wasn't Carol who said she got some information from the boards. Another Aunt was/is reading the boards. I think it is a form of therapy. One time my daughter read all of her ex-boyfriend'e emails to reinforce what she already knew. She didn't hack into his account, she knew his pw and he had never changed it. I'm sure the Gee side of the family is being notified by LE as needed. They seem to be more on the silent side, other than Nicole speaking out.

[TennB]

No Im not confused, I know where Carol Lives and I also know her Husband was on Lincoln city police Dept. No confusion there..Just wondering why no one took it upon themselves to Call that side of the family instead of them having to read about it on computer.

PM sent, Happygert.

[IM4Truth]

Does anyone know what has become of Sara Duncan? Did they bring her back to IL or are they just questioning her in FL? Is she in jail in FL?

[happygert]

It wasn't Carol who said she got some information from the boards. Another Aunt was/is reading the boards. I think it is a form of therapy. One time my daughter read all of her ex-boyfriend'e emails to reinforce what she already knew. She didn't hack into his account, she knew his pw and he had never changed it. I'm sure the Gee side of the family is being notified by LE as needed. They seem to be more on the silent side, other than Nicole speaking out.

heres what Carol said:

LINCOLN -- Carol Coombs found out her nephew and his family had been killed when she logged onto a social networking site Monday night.

A friend posted something on Facebook around 8:30 p.m., four hours after the bodies of the Rick and Ruth Gee family were found and long before police publicly identified the family.

Coombs rushed to Beason to be with Rick Gee's mother and stepfather.

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/article_e0ac272a-a942-11de-b93f-001cc4c03286.html

[GentleBreeze]

heres what Carol said:

LINCOLN -- Carol Coombs found out her nephew and his family had been killed when she logged onto a social networking site Monday night.

A friend posted something on Facebook around 8:30 p.m., four hours after the bodies of the Rick and Ruth Gee family were found and long before police publicly identified the family.

Coombs rushed to Beason to be with Rick Gee's mother and stepfather.

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/article_e0ac272a-a942-11de-b93f-001cc4c03286.html

I would think that is why. "before police publicly identified the family" I wouldn't think LE would officially notify anyone until they had fully identified the victims.

[AmndaRcknwth]

Well, what an idiotic person to post that on Facebook!

Have they never heard of a phone, even a dang text message?? They posted that on FACEBOOK??? How stupid and insensitive.

[AmndaRcknwth]

What exactly does Nicole Gee do for a living?
Could this be somehow related to her work? I have read 3 different things that she supposedly works at, and I am totally clueless which one is true.

[clueless]

We have no idea if they have/had injuries. but..

I do find it interesting that John Warner Hopital was listed in the court documents....

I agree. The only way I could see this happening without injuries is if they were wearing full motorcycle gear with helmet. Seems way back in my memory--not that long ago, I remember hearing of a guy who committed a crime and this was his getup. Don't ask me the specifics....I don't recall them. But it seems like less that 2 yrs.

[sinagua]

It crossed my mind that they could have worn their ATV helmets, but I am only saying that because you mentioned helmets. I saw a picture of the brothers after they were 4 wheeling. moo

[KittyMom]

With the family pretty much wiped out, who's left to call the extended family and tell them the news? Also, would the grandparents be a little shell-shocked what with LE interviewing them and Tabitha in critical condition. Maybe no one thought of calling out-of-town family until the next day. Is that really such a big deal in the scope of this case? :shrug:

[KittyMom]

It crossed my mind that they could have worn their ATV helmets, but I am only saying that because you mentioned helmets. I saw a picture of the brothers after they were 4 wheeling. moo

I thought about that. Also, those insulated overalls that pretty much cover you all over and gloves. It would be possible for them to have every inch of skin covered. Or not. I think LE has some idea of what type of injuries the perps had.

[KittyMom]

I agree. The only way I could see this happening without injuries is if they were wearing full motorcycle gear with helmet. Seems way back in my memory--not that long ago, I remember hearing of a guy who committed a crime and this was his getup. Don't ask me the specifics....I don't recall them. But it seems like less that 2 yrs.

Wasn't it in Cali? A man and his wife killed by a person wearing a helmet. I don't think there has been an arrest either.

[sinagua]

The Husted murders http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/05/mystery_in_a_multi-million_dol.php

[KittyMom]

The Husted murders http://www.truecrimereport.com/2009/05/mystery_in_a_multi-million_dol.php

You found it. I was going to post the thread from here.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=353807

motorcycle helmet and jumpsuit

[GentleBreeze]

What exactly does Nicole Gee do for a living?
Could this be somehow related to her work? I have read 3 different things that she supposedly works at, and I am totally clueless which one is true.

I really don't even know if she was working with her child only being 8 weeks old but I did read that she had recently gotten her nursing degree shortly before this happened, iirc.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

We have no idea if they have/had injuries. but..

I do find it interesting that John Warner Hospital was listed in the court documents....

Yes, they certainly could have and it may be in areas where clothing would hide them.

I find it extremely interesting that John Warner Hospital was listed.

imo

[clueless]

Wasn't it in Cali? A man and his wife killed by a person wearing a helmet. I don't think there has been an arrest either.

I really don't recall Kittymom. I "googled", but didn't find anything ringing the ole bell. I'm beginnng to wonder if dementia is setting in. I have to go to the dictionary more often these days.:w00t:

[corbi77]

Motorcyle and 4 wheeler gear is not cheap, so I can't see this family being able to afford tossing something that expensive to the wayside, if it were worn. If in fact it was someone other than these 2, it is a possibility some form of gear was worn.
It might be something the police would look for when searching the home if they were aware the boys had any.
Was it mentioned that "any" evidence was taken from their homes? I know they searched, but I only recall evidence had been taken from the Gee home.

[clueless]

You found it. I was going to post the thread from here.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=353807

motorcycle helmet and jumpsuit

That's it!!!! Thanks kittmom and sinagua.

[sinagua]

SEARCH FOR LICENSEE BY PROFESSION:
Nurse Practical, Licensed
THERE ARE 1 RECORDS WHOSE NAME CONTAINS: N gee



Licensee's Name DBA /
AKA License
Number License
Status City, State Original
Issue
Date Current
Exprtn Ever
Discplned?
NICOLE M GEE 043104244 NOT RENEWED Streator, IL 09/20/2007 01/31/2009 N



If this is Nicole. She was an LPN, but her license has expired.

[clueless]

SEARCH FOR LICENSEE BY PROFESSION:
Nurse Practical, Licensed
THERE ARE 1 RECORDS WHOSE NAME CONTAINS: N gee



Licensee's Name DBA /
AKA License
Number License
Status City, State Original
Issue
Date Current
Exprtn Ever
Discplned?
NICOLE M GEE 043104244 NOT RENEWED Streator, IL 09/20/2007 01/31/2009 N



If this is Nicole. She was an LPN, but her license has expired.

I wonder if Nicole ever work at John Warner Hospital in Clinton? Stretching here.

[Amy]

I really don't even know if she was working with her child only being 8 weeks old but I did read that she had recently gotten her nursing degree shortly before this happened, iirc.

imo

That's what I had read, too, about the recent nursing degree. Don't remember, tho, if it was from a news article, or from a poster. Some take 6 weeks off, some 12--some even less, depending on the physical labor involved.

[Amy]

SEARCH FOR LICENSEE BY PROFESSION:
Nurse Practical, Licensed
THERE ARE 1 RECORDS WHOSE NAME CONTAINS: N gee



Licensee's Name DBA /
AKA License
Number License
Status City, State Original
Issue
Date Current
Exprtn Ever
Discplned?
NICOLE M GEE 043104244 NOT RENEWED Streator, IL 09/20/2007 01/31/2009 N



If this is Nicole. She was an LPN, but her license has expired.


What I remember reading was that she "recently" had gotten her nursing degree--which could mean that she went back to school for an AD degree. That would take only one year, since her schooling for LPN would be counted toward an AD degree.

I guess it could mean that she didn't renew her LPN license because she now has an RN license?

[CaliforniaGr]

I have not seen this question before but in reading Jennifer Earnest's case on-line, it states she is being held for obstruction of justice/destroy evidence. Has anyone read about the destroy evidence part. Maybe she cleaned the truck. Perhaps it was driven to Florida where her and her mother cleaned it in addition to giving alibis.

[clueless]

I wonder if Nicole ever work at John Warner Hospital in Clinton? Stretching here.

[Originally Posted by sinagua
SEARCH FOR LICENSEE BY PROFESSION:
Nurse Practical, Licensed
THERE ARE 1 RECORDS WHOSE NAME CONTAINS: N gee
I don't think this is the same Nicole Miller.
Did some research because it was stated somewhere she had just gotten her "Assoc. Degree". This record was also from Streater, IL. I think that is a little too far away. Found a Nicole M. Miller from around that area; in her 30's. I think Nicole's middle initial is R.

[sinagua]

I didn't look under RN, once I found the LPN.

Here -

SEARCH FOR LICENSEE BY PROFESSION:
Nurse Registered, Professional
THERE ARE 1 RECORDS WHOSE NAME CONTAINS: n gee



Licensee's Name DBA /
AKA License
Number License
Status City, State Original
Issue
Date Current
Exprtn Ever
Discplned?
NICOLE M GEE 041372778 ACTIVE Chicago, IL 11/07/2008 05/31/2010 N

[Amy]

"]Originally Posted by sinagua
SEARCH FOR LICENSEE BY PROFESSION:
Nurse Practical, Licensed
THERE ARE 1 RECORDS WHOSE NAME CONTAINS: N gee[/COLOR]
I don't think this is the same Nicole Miller.
Did some research because it was stated somewhere she had just gotten her "Assoc. Degree". This record was also from Streater, IL. I think that is a little too far away. Found a Nicole M. Miller from around that area; in her 30's. I think Nicole's middle initial is R.

I don't think Miller was ever her name. Ruth was married to? Gerald Miller, but Nicole's dad is Rick Gee. And, her married name would have been Harris. There hasn't been anything reported (that I have seen) that she was married to a Miller.

[JoAnn]

I have not seen this question before but in reading Jennifer Earnest's case on-line, it states she is being held for obstruction of justice/destroy evidence. Has anyone read about the destroy evidence part. Maybe she cleaned the truck. Perhaps it was driven to Florida where her and her mother cleaned it in addition to giving alibis.

--
I havent read anything yet on the "destroy evidence"..did you read that somewhere? That makes it a bit more explicit doesn't it. Could be anything from the cellphone, weapon, clothing etc, but if she did something like that she must have known what had happened either while she did it or shortly after...wonder if there could be charges on that other than the obstruction of justice charge. Wish I were a little more up on modern criminal law.

[sinagua]

A zaba search does show that Nicole's middle initial "is R."

What are the chances of 2 people in IL. being named Nicole Gee? Well, I don't find Nicole R. Gee registered as a nurse in IL.

But, that would clear up the rumor that she is a nurse, if there are 2 people with the same name.

[CaliforniaGr]

--
I havent read anything yet on the "destroy evidence"..did you read that somewhere? That makes it a bit more explicit doesn't it. Could be anything from the cellphone, weapon, clothing etc, but if she did something like that she must have known what had happened either while she did it or shortly after...wonder if there could be charges on that other than the obstruction of justice charge. Wish I were a little more up on modern criminal law.

Well, I am a court reporting student and trust me, knowing more in law is still not knowing anything. It is confusing. Guess that is why they employ law clerks, to do all the grunt work. Anyway, I found that on the Logan County, IL court cases. Others have referred to the site but I don't know how to attach a link. Sorry.

Charge 1 OBSTRUCT JUST/DESTROY EVIDENCE Original Class 4 Felony

[CaliforniaGr]

--
I havent read anything yet on the "destroy evidence"..did you read that somewhere? That makes it a bit more explicit doesn't it. Could be anything from the cellphone, weapon, clothing etc, but if she did something like that she must have known what had happened either while she did it or shortly after...wonder if there could be charges on that other than the obstruction of justice charge. Wish I were a little more up on modern criminal law.

Okay. 1. Google Logan county illinois public records. 2. Then click Logan county case search (it comes up 3rd on my page) then just 3. click on case search when the page comes up and type in the person's name.

[clueless]

I don't think Miller was ever her name. Ruth was married to? Gerald Miller, but Nicole's dad is Rick Gee. And, her married name would have been Harris. There hasn't been anything reported (that I have seen) that she was married to a Miller.

Blunder:w00t: Sorry Amy can't you see I'm trying to drive you crazy. No really I messed up, I meant to say Gee. Too many surnames in this case. Time to go have a cup of tea and watch TV I think. Again sorry everyone.

[m3t00]

Okay. 1. Google Logan county illinois public records. 2. Then click Logan county case search (it comes up 3rd on my page) then just 3. click on case search when the page comes up and type in the person's name.

Or you can add a link (http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_search.jsp?court=IL054025J&sort=full_name&order=ASC&case_number=&litigant_name=Gee%2C+Nicole&charge_text=)
:smile:

1) Copy the address from the page you want. Highlight, right-click, copy
2) Highlight some text in the Forum Reply editor, click the link button(world with chain-link icon)
3) right-click paste the address in the popup dialog

Try it! Makes things much clearer.

[CaliforniaGr]

Or you can add a link (http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_search.jsp?court=IL054025J&sort=full_name&order=ASC&case_number=&litigant_name=Gee%2C+Nicole&charge_text=)
:smile:

1) Copy the address from the page you want. Highlight, right-click, copy
2) Highlight some text in the Forum Reply editor, click the link button(world with chain-link icon)
3) right-click paste the address in the popup dialog

Try it! Makes things much clearer.

Thanks!!! I have expressed I didn't know how to do the link attachment. I will give it a try. Never noticed the chain-link icon!

[clueless]

--
I havent read anything yet on the "destroy evidence"..did you read that somewhere? That makes it a bit more explicit doesn't it. Could be anything from the cellphone, weapon, clothing etc, but if she did something like that she must have known what had happened either while she did it or shortly after...wonder if there could be charges on that other than the obstruction of justice charge. Wish I were a little more up on modern criminal law.

I think it can be an either/or/and situation. I believe she was only charged with obstruction of justice. The link is Judici :http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_search.jsp?court=IL054025J

[CaliforniaGr]

Or you can add a link (http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_search.jsp?court=IL054025J&sort=full_name&order=ASC&case_number=&litigant_name=Gee%2C+Nicole&charge_text=)
:smile:

1) Copy the address from the page you want. Highlight, right-click, copy
2) Highlight some text in the Forum Reply editor, click the link button(world with chain-link icon)
3) right-click paste the address in the popup dialog

Try it! Makes things much clearer.

Well, I guess I am tired. I just am not getting it...but thanks!

[corbi77]

I wonder if her license would be under the name of Harris instead of Gee? Just because she is using the Gee name now, doesn't mean that is her legal name. You can go by any name you want to, except on legal papers.
She was probably Harris when she started school too, as I would think they were married at the time she started.
Just a thought...

[happygert]

With the family pretty much wiped out, who's left to call the extended family and tell them the news? Also, would the grandparents be a little shell-shocked what with LE interviewing them and Tabitha in critical condition. Maybe no one thought of calling out-of-town family until the next day. Is that really such a big deal in the scope of this case? :shrug:

Well Ricks Mom's , Nicole, Lonny are still alive, Ricks stepdad, who found the bodies, Well you'd think someone would call the relatives instead of them having to read it on computer. Which by they way Carol lives in Lincoln. But then again. you may be right the StepDad notified the POLICE about the murders. So the next of Kin which would be Ricks Mom , Nicole, Lonny, already knew about the deaths. Since it was the Stepdad who found them and Nicole was there. So The LE would not be giving the aunts and uncles any info at all.

But it was a horrible way to find out that Your Nephew and His Family was murdered.

[happygert]

Well, I am a court reporting student and trust me, knowing more in law is still not knowing anything. It is confusing. Guess that is why they employ law clerks, to do all the grunt work. Anyway, I found that on the Logan County, IL court cases. Others have referred to the site but I don't know how to attach a link. Sorry.

Charge 1 OBSTRUCT JUST/DESTROY EVIDENCE Original Class 4 Felony

That was in 2007... Jason 's charges changed from obstruction charges to murder charges no obstuction charges in this case filed yet..

2007CF47 HARRIS, JASON LLast Search | Information | Dispositions | History | Payments | Fines & Fees
Name No. Qualifier Desc Type Date Plea Status
Count 1 Ticket Number: 47 11/21/2006
Charge 1 None OBSTRUCT JUST/DESTROY EVIDENCE Original No Plea Class 4 Felony
Disposition 1 223 - Charge Amended/Reduced 06/19/2007
Charge 2 None RESIST/PEACE OFFICER/CORR EMP Amended Guilty Class A Misdemeanor
Disposition 1 101 - Guilty 06/19/2007
Sentence 1 204 - Probation 24 months 06/19/2007 In Force
Sentence 2 202 - Jail 90 days 06/19/2007 In Force
Sentence 3 211 - Credit Time Served 21 days 06/19/2007 In Force
Disposition 2 650 - Modified/Trial Court 07/21/2009
Sentence 1 204 - Probation 12 months 07/21/2009 In Force
Sentence 2 202 - Jail

Here's what Jason was charged with.. in this case
2009CF178 HARRIS, JASON LEELast Search | Information | Dispositions | History | Payments | Fines & Fees
Name No. Qualifier Desc Type Date Plea Status
Count 1 Ticket Number: 178 09/21/2009
Charge 1 None MURDER/INTENT TO KILL/INJURE Original Class M Felony
Count 2 Ticket Number: 178 09/21/2009
Charge 1 None MURDER/INTENT TO KILL/INJURE Original Class M Felony
Count 3 Ticket Number: 178 09/21/2009
Charge 1 None MURDER/INTENT TO KILL/INJURE Original Class M Felony
Count 4 Ticket Number: 178 09/21/2009
Charge 1 None MURDER/INTENT TO KILL/INJURE Original Class M Felony
Count 5 Ticket Number: 178 09/21/2009
Charge 1 None MURDER/INTENT TO KILL/INJURE Original Class M Felony
Count 6 Ticket Number: 178 09/21/2009
Charge 1 Attempted MURDER/INTENT TO KILL/INJURE Original Class O Felony

[CaliforniaGr]

No, not Jason's record, Jennifer Earnest's record.

[CaliforniaGr]

I think it can be an either/or/and situation. I believe she was only charged with obstruction of justice. The link is Judici :http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_search.jsp?court=IL054025J

I read, under the the Dispositions tab, where it said "Obstruct Just/Destroy Evidence" and was wondering if they have a destroying evidence charge along with the obstruct justice charge and wondered if anyone heard something else. I see what you mean that it could be an either/or situation.

[desmom]

Snipped

I've asked the same thing a couple/three times, and I get ignored like a red-headed stepchild. :blink: Best I can figure, she's in the middle of this somehow.

Probably not ignored, just no one knew the answer to your question.

Morning local news reported Jason will be in court this afternoon, but they did not give a time.

jmo

[AmndaRcknwth]

SEARCH FOR LICENSEE BY PROFESSION:
Nurse Practical, Licensed
THERE ARE 1 RECORDS WHOSE NAME CONTAINS: N gee



Licensee's Name DBA /
AKA License
Number License
Status City, State Original
Issue
Date Current
Exprtn Ever
Discplned?
NICOLE M GEE 043104244 NOT RENEWED Streator, IL 09/20/2007 01/31/2009 N



If this is Nicole. She was an LPN, but her license has expired.

Nicoles name is Nicole Renee Gee. Above is Nicole M Gee.

Also, if she recently (May) graduated, she wouldn't be this same person.

[AmndaRcknwth]

I read, under the the Dispositions tab, where it said "Obstruct Just/Destroy Evidence" and was wondering if they have a destroying evidence charge along with the obstruct justice charge and wondered if anyone heard something else. I see what you mean that it could be an either/or situation.

Destroying evidence IS obstructing justice.

We can only speculate since they are so tight with info, but perhaps Jennifer destroyed bloody clothing.

[desmom]

I really don't even know if she was working with her child only being 8 weeks old but I did read that she had recently gotten her nursing degree shortly before this happened, iirc.

imo

That is what I remember also GentleBreeze.

If she recently received her nursing degree, she would still have to pass the State Boards. jmo

[IlliniFan]

Destroying evidence IS obstructing justice.

We can only speculate since they are so tight with info, but perhaps Jennifer destroyed bloody clothing.

Yet, I believe JoAnn had looked up the level of Obstruction charges and class 4 was a lower level charge of obstruction. (IIRC) I would think the destruction of evidence, might carry a heftier charge of obstruction. Does that make sense? Wonder if she has been talking?

[m3t00]

The links from the Dispositions page takes you to the actual law as it is written (http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072000050K31-4.htm).

I think "OBSTRUCT JUST/DESTROY EVIDENCE" is just a general name for the charge and wouldn't read too much into it.

[IlliniFan]

The links from the Dispositions page takes you to the actual law as it is written (http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072000050K31-4.htm).

I think "OBSTRUCT JUST/DESTROY EVIDENCE" is just a general name for the charge and wouldn't read too much into it.


ok thanks....guess she just gave a false alibi in a multiple murder case. Wonder if she is still locked up. I don't recall her bail...

[corbi77]

iirc her bail was listed at $5000.00
The boys have no bail and not even sure what exactly is happening with her mother.

[IlliniFan]

iirc her bail was listed at $5000.00
The boys have no bail and not even sure what exactly is happening with her mother.

Thank-you for the information. I am getting lazy about looking things up.....ty

[sinagua]

I am using the division of professional records (IL) to look up licenses for Nicole. http://www.idfpr.com/DPR/licenselookup/default.asp

There are Nicole Harris' listed but neither appear to be her.

But, perhaps she isn't licensed yet.

[CaliforniaGr]

ok thanks....guess she just gave a false alibi in a multiple murder case. Wonder if she is still locked up. I don't recall her bail...

It looks like she is still in there and has a prelim hearing on Oct 29 @ 10 am. There is a 50,000 bond requiring 10%. I think we would have heard if she was bailed/released.

[CaliforniaGr]

I am curious about something. Is the hospital in Peoria where Tabitha was taken a more fully equipped hospital than the one in Clinton, which is so close to Beason?

[corbi77]

Peoria is by far a much much better hospital than Clinton. They are extrememly well equipped for trauma. As a matter of fact, even the Bloomington, Normal hospitals send all child trauma there right away.

Clinton is a very small hospital. It has been trying to change it's image over the last few years, but not a place I would have even take my dog if injured, a year ago.

Peoria can give this child top notch care. I would say they already have with the condition she was in and has now been upgraded to fair.

[IlliniFan]

I am curious about something. Is the hospital in Peoria where Tabitha was taken a more fully equipped hospital than the one in Clinton, which is so close to Beason?


With out a doubt. The JWH in Clinton is a small hospital. The hospital's in Peoria are much bigger and better equipped. When there are individuals seriously hurt in this area, they typically are air lifted to either Peoria, or Springfield.

[KittyMom]

What I remember reading was that she "recently" had gotten her nursing degree--which could mean that she went back to school for an AD degree. That would take only one year, since her schooling for LPN would be counted toward an AD degree.

I guess it could mean that she didn't renew her LPN license because she now has an RN license?

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/article_de75d830-af59-11de-8998-001cc4c002e0.html

Nicole Gee graduated from the college with an associate degree in the spring.

[CaliforniaGr]

Thanks to both of you for the insight. Now I understand why all the wondering about records subppenaed from the hospital in Clinton. So, obviously somebody went to the Clinton hospital for medical care. I didn't get that before since I am not familiar with Southern Illinois.

[IlliniFan]

Thanks to both of you for the insight. Now I understand why all the wondering about records subppenaed from the hospital in Clinton. So, obviously somebody went to the Clinton hospital for medical care. I didn't get that before since I am not familiar with Southern Illinois.

I would presume that's why we see the JWH in the court records. The hospital has 24 hour emergency care. I don't know if Chris might have gone as a result of an injury after the murders?

[IlliniFan]

Beason suspect in court today; phone and hospital records sought


LINCOLN -- One of two brothers accused of brutally killing five members of a Beason family is due in court Tuesday, as authorities seek records from two phone companies and a Clinton hospital.






http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/article_de6babb4-b80d-11de-b2b4-001cc4c002e0.html

[KittyMom]

Another view of the request for hospital records...

maybe the hospital visit wasn't for a perp but rather is what led to the attack. What would upset a parent? If there is any truth to there having been an argument that afternoon where a person was seen leaving with a child, maybe the records are in regards to the child. I'm not saying that anyone was intentionally hurt, accidents with kids happen all the time. But, sometimes parents fly off the handle due to the heat of the moment and the scare that something happened to your child.

purely speculation and thoughts

[Mandysmom]

I'm kind of new to this forum and have been trying to keep up. I did note that someone said that an argument had taken place on Sunday.

The poster said at that time that they had someone in mind but didn't say who. I am just wondering if they ever found out who the argument was with.

If I'm mistaken, please just disregard.

[IlliniFan]

Another view of the request for hospital records...

maybe the hospital visit wasn't for a perp but rather is what led to the attack. What would upset a parent? If there is any truth to there having been an argument that afternoon where a person was seen leaving with a child, maybe the records are in regards to the child. I'm not saying that anyone was intentionally hurt, accidents with kids happen all the time. But, sometimes parents fly off the handle due to the heat of the moment and the scare that something happened to your child.

purely speculation and thoughts


That's a possibility too. I hadn't thought of that.

[AmndaRcknwth]

Another view of the request for hospital records...

maybe the hospital visit wasn't for a perp but rather is what led to the attack. What would upset a parent? If there is any truth to there having been an argument that afternoon where a person was seen leaving with a child, maybe the records are in regards to the child. I'm not saying that anyone was intentionally hurt, accidents with kids happen all the time. But, sometimes parents fly off the handle due to the heat of the moment and the scare that something happened to your child.

purely speculation and thoughts


Does the Clinton hospital have a behavioral wing?
Substance abuse? Mental health issues?

eta...
found my own answer. No, they do not.
http://www.djwhospital.org/index.html?addr=/

[cynical]

New here,

Two things: one a question, one a theory.

1. Did anyone ever hear anything about the family dog?

2. I have heard several hypothesized motives, and have developed a hybrid. What if there were drugs involved on all levels. Chris and Nicole supposedly lived in Florida, there is some connection there because Jennifer Earnest lived in and her mother also lives in Fl. So They all move back to Ill. Where they at least Chris and Nicole are still in contact with Rick Gee. Let's say Nicole is clueless about this, maybe she is, maybe she isn't. But what happens if Chris tells Rick about a hookup he has in Fl through his brother Jason. They get something going across state lines. Big Money, Big Deal. Rick wants more product, or can't come up with money owed. Jason gets pressured from Fl. and in turn pressures Rick, through Chris. Rick can't produce, so either Jason loses it and forces Chris in. (or Fl. comes to Il forces both brothers to do this thing(possibly at gun point, maybe silenced if indeed casings were found). Then Fl. goes back home free and clear knowing the Harris Brothers won't say a thing, they may even be safer in prison if convicted. Just a theory, drug murders have a tendency to be far more personal than other "money" murders. It could be these are two brothers that got in way over their head and are now paying for it.

could be way off

[Mandysmom]

New here,

Two things: one a question, one a theory.

1. Did anyone ever hear anything about the family dog?

2. I have heard several hypothesized motives, and have developed a hybrid. What if there were drugs involved on all levels. Chris and Nicole supposedly lived in Florida, there is some connection there because Jennifer Earnest lived in and her mother also lives in Fl. So They all move back to Ill. Where they at least Chris and Nicole are still in contact with Rick Gee. Let's say Nicole is clueless about this, maybe she is, maybe she isn't. But what happens if Chris tells Rick about a hookup he has in Fl through his brother Jason. They get something going across state lines. Big Money, Big Deal. Rick wants more product, or can't come up with money owed. Jason gets pressured from Fl. and in turn pressures Rick, through Chris. Rick can't produce, so either Jason loses it and forces Chris in. (or Fl. comes to Il forces both brothers to do this thing(possibly at gun point, maybe silenced if indeed casings were found). Then Fl. goes back home free and clear knowing the Harris Brothers won't say a thing, they may even be safer in prison if convicted. Just a theory, drug murders have a tendency to be far more personal than other "money" murders. It could be these are two brothers that got in way over their head and are now paying for it.

could be way off
That's an interesting theory, Cynical. I am of the opinion that when it goes to trial, we are going to hear some story maybe similar to this.

That or it was just an argument over something that had been brewing for quite a while and got crazy.

So sad to have so many killed in such a horrendous way.
:sad:

[clueless]

The links from the Dispositions page takes you to the actual law as it is written (http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072000050K31-4.htm).

I think "OBSTRUCT JUST/DESTROY EVIDENCE" is just a general name for the charge and wouldn't read too much into it.

Thanks m3, here is something in "plain language".


http://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/Practice_Areas/Obstruction_of_Justice.aspx

[m3t00]

Thanks m3, here is something in "plain language".


http://www.thefederalcriminalattorneys.com/Practice_Areas/Obstruction_of_Justice.aspx

I have two problems with that link. 1) It's likely California law. 2) The last sentence:
"If you have been charged with construction of justice, you should contact a Los Angeles Federal Criminal Defense Attorney as soon as possible!"

They fail. :laugh:

[IlliniFan]

Attorney: Beason murder cases likely won't be combined

LINCOLN -- One of two brothers accused of brutally killing a Beason family was in court Tuesday for a brief appearance, and his attorney said the brothers' cases will most likely not be combined. (snipped)


http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/article_de6babb4-b80d-11de-b2b4-001cc4c002e0.html

[KittyMom]

Attorney: Beason murder cases likely won't be combined

LINCOLN -- One of two brothers accused of brutally killing a Beason family was in court Tuesday for a brief appearance, and his attorney said the brothers' cases will most likely not be combined. (snipped)


http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/article_de6babb4-b80d-11de-b2b4-001cc4c002e0.html

It only mentioned the dad being there. I wonder if anyone else in the family went to show support. IIRC, there were about 20 family members at court for Chris.

[smile]

This is strange…….

http://www.prairieghosts.com/villisca.html

Check out William Mansfield and compare it to Chris Harris

[IlliniFan]

It only mentioned the dad being there. I wonder if anyone else in the family went to show support. IIRC, there were about 20 family members at court for Chris.


Hard to say if anyone else was there, but in the past the articles did describe the support for Chris. The step mother might have been there, but just didn't mention her. The lawyers have evidently asked her to quit speaking publically about the case.

This has probably been asked, but do Chris and Jason have any other siblings?

[desmom]

Attorney: Beason murder cases likely won't be combined

LINCOLN -- One of two brothers accused of brutally killing a Beason family was in court Tuesday for a brief appearance, and his attorney said the brothers' cases will most likely not be combined. (snipped)


http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/article_de6babb4-b80d-11de-b2b4-001cc4c002e0.html

Interesting! Once the evidence is released to the 2 defense attorneys, will one of the attorneys attempt a plea deal in return for testimony?

[KittyMom]

Hard to say if anyone else was there, but in the past the articles did describe the support for Chris. The step mother might have been there, but just didn't mention her. The lawyers have evidently asked her to quit speaking publically about the case.

This has probably been asked, but do Chris and Jason have any other siblings?

I'm not sure. I'm not sure if they have the same mother.

[KittyMom]

Interesting! Once the evidence is released to the 2 defense attorneys, will one of the attorneys attempt a plea deal in return for testimony?

It just may happen.

[Katherine]

Hard to say if anyone else was there, but in the past the articles did describe the support for Chris. The step mother might have been there, but just didn't mention her. The lawyers have evidently asked her to quit speaking publically about the case.

This has probably been asked, but do Chris and Jason have any other siblings?

According to Chris myspace, he has a sister named Amy. I believe I read somewhere she lives in Florida, but am not 100% sure.

Also, the hospital in Peoria has a pediatric neurologist and Springfield does not, which is most likely why Tabitha was taken there.

[IlliniFan]

According to Chris myspace, he has a sister named Amy. I believe I read somewhere she lives in Florida, but am not 100% sure.

Also, the hospital in Peoria has a pediatric neurologist and Springfield does not, which is most likely why Tabitha was taken there.

Thank-you for the information. I wasn't aware there was another sibling. I wasn't aware about the difference between the Springfield Hospitals and the one's in Peoria. That does make sense, because typically children seriously injured go to Peoria. I noticed over the weekend, a boy (10 - 11 yo) was burned in a campfire accident in Goodfield, near Peoria, but this little guy was air lifted to Springfield, IIRC, Maybe Springfield has a better burn unit?

[Katherine]

Thank-you for the information. I wasn't aware there was another sibling. I wasn't aware about the difference between the Springfield Hospitals and the one's in Peoria. That does make sense, because typically children seriously injured go to Peoria. I noticed over the weekend, a boy (10 - 11 yo) was burned in a campfire accident in Goodfield, near Peoria, but this little guy was air lifted to Springfield, IIRC, Maybe Springfield has a better burn unit?

Yes, Illinifan, that's right. Springfield (Memorial Medical Center) has an excellent burn center, for both adults and children. They have a great neonatal unit too, but I am not sure why there is not more advancement in pediatric neurology, especially with the med school in Springfield.

Have you looked at the myspace account? I can send the link if you'd like.

[desmom]

According to Chris myspace, he has a sister named Amy. I believe I read somewhere she lives in Florida, but am not 100% sure.

Also, the hospital in Peoria has a pediatric neurologist and Springfield does not, which is most likely why Tabitha was taken there.

Springfield has several pediatric neurologists and a pediatric neurology clinic.

[Katherine]

Springfield has several pediatric neurologists and a pediatric neurology clinic.

Is that fairly recent? Last fall, my friend had to travel to St. Louis with her daughter as none were available in Springfield.

[desmom]

Is that fairly recent? Last fall, my friend had to travel to St. Louis with her daughter as none were available in Springfield.

My daughter has been seeing pediatric neurologists in Springfield since her birth almost 19 years ago.

[Katherine]

My daughter has been seeing pediatric neurologists in Springfield since her birth almost 19 years ago.

Thanks for the information. Maybe it's because surgery was required she was taken to St. Louis? Sorry for the mistake....

[desmom]

Thanks for the information. Maybe it's because surgery was required she was taken to St. Louis? Sorry for the mistake....

Yes some surgeries can be preformed here, as they are in Peoria. Many pediatric neurology surgeries, from all over down state area, are transferred to St. Louis Children's Hospital. jmo

[happygert]

Yes, Illinifan, that's right. Springfield (Memorial Medical Center) has an excellent burn center, for both adults and children. They have a great neonatal unit too, but I am not sure why there is not more advancement in pediatric neurology, especially with the med school in Springfield.

Have you looked at the myspace account? I can send the link if you'd like.

neonatal center is at St. Johns. I think they do have some good peds neurologists there..

[happygert]

According to Chris myspace, he has a sister named Amy. I believe I read somewhere she lives in Florida, but am not 100% sure.

Also, the hospital in Peoria has a pediatric neurologist and Springfield does not, which is most likely why Tabitha was taken there.

Yes he does. She's going to school there and taking classes for LawEnforcement. last I heard..

[JoAnn]

I don't recall that this was discussed much .. but I came across 2 videos posted at youtube..one is the press release from the sheriff right after the murders happened.

The other is called "Remembering the Gees".

Links are below, if you haven't seen them, they are interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW7lrPmDA1U
Remembering the GEE Family. (video of church and search)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZh-Z-e9LZk&NR=1
sheriffs statement..

Old Press release by Sheriff Nichols right after the murders. The reason I am posting it is that he mentions the bodies were taken to Peoria (?) he said for autopsy. Couldn't hear him real well when he said it but sounded like Peoria.

And I am sorry to say I haven't read every post like I usually do, and apologize for that, but could this be the subpoena that we have been speculating about..the subpoena mentioned on our board, could it be for the results of the autopsies, instead of something about Chris or Jason being treated for injuries.

Or am I off base on this.. to busy today to read everything and I came across the videos by accident today..won't get chance to sit down and read thoroughly till late tonight.

Hope the links work..I didnt take the time to test them as I usually do.

[IlliniFan]

I don't recall that this was discussed much .. but I came across 2 videos posted at youtube..one is the press release from the sheriff right after the murders happened.

The other is called "Remembering the Gees".

Links are below, if you haven't seen them, they are interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW7lrPmDA1U
Remembering the GEE Family. (video of church and search)





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZh-Z-e9LZk&NR=1
sheriffs statement..

Old Press release by Sheriff Nichols right after the murders. The reason I am posting it is that he mentions the bodies were taken to Peoria (?) he said for autopsy. Couldn't hear him real well when he said it but sounded like Peoria.

And I am sorry to say I haven't read every post like I usually do, and apologize for that, but could this be the subpoena that we have been speculating about..the subpoena mentioned on our board, could it be for the results of the autopsies, instead of something about Chris or Jason being treated for injuries.

Or am I off base on this.. to busy today to read everything and I came across the videos by accident today..won't get chance to sit down and read thoroughly till late tonight.

Hope the links work..I didnt take the time to test them as I usually do.

The subpoena was for John Warner Hospital in Clinton....ty for the links...

[happygert]

Just looked at Jason's picture and watched him going in court house still see no visible injuries on him either.

Just another thought to.. Jason wears glasses you'd think in such a violent attack and the victims fighting back that Jason's glasses would be knocked off and possibly get broken and to say they least there should have been some kind of blood splatter on them.. At least I would think there would be.

[m3t00]

So,

HARRIS, CHRISTOPHER J (http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_information.jsp?court=IL054025J&ocl=IL054025J,2009CF171,IL054025JL2009CF171D1)
Preliminary hrg 10/28/2009 13:15
HARRIS, JASON LEE (http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_information.jsp?court=IL054025J&ocl=IL054025J,2009CF178,IL054025JL2009CF178D1)
Preliminary hrg 10/28/2009 13:45

Only a half hour between them. Anybody have an idea what sort of new information might be released at a preliminary hearing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preliminary_hearing)? Sounds like the judge is the only one who will see any evidence. I assume at that point the defense also gets to see some evidence or how does that work?

According to that Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preliminary_hearing) about all that will happen is setting a date for arraignment when they finally enter a plea. I seriously doubt there will need to be any grand jury if they have a strong case.

[IlliniFan]

Just looked at Jason's picture and watched him going in court house still see no visible injuries on him either.

Just another thought to.. Jason wears glasses you'd think in such a violent attack and the victims fighting back that Jason's glasses would be knocked off and possibly get broken and to say they least there should have been some kind of blood splatter on them.. At least I would think there would be.


Gert, I have more than one pair of glasses, plus contact lenses. In addition, we have no idea what injuries they might have had beneath the clothing, plus they have had time to heal.

Why do you think LE has subpoened the John Warner Hospital?

I know you believe in Chris, and maybe we will find he wasn't involved, perhaps we will have an indication after the preliminary hearing?

I don't know about Chris, but I think Jason has excellent representation.

[happygert]

Gert, I have more than one pair of glasses, plus contact lenses. In addition, we have no idea what injuries they might have had beneath the clothing, plus they have had time to heal.

Why do you think LE has subpoened the John Warner Hospital?

I know you believe in Chris, and maybe we will find he wasn't involved, perhaps we will have an indication after the preliminary hearing?

I don't know about Chris, but I think Jason has excellent representation.

Both boys do..Tim is good and so Steve Skelton.

Your right we dont know what under their clothes. However visible areas show not a scratch.. No hair missing on either no brusies, nothing.

I dont have a clue .But IMO it wont be anything they find..They've searched houses maybe the found a prescription from a dr over there. If there had been any injuries on Chris, Nicole would have seen them.

[happygert]

Gert, I have more than one pair of glasses, plus contact lenses. In addition, we have no idea what injuries they might have had beneath the clothing, plus they have had time to heal.

Why do you think LE has subpoened the John Warner Hospital?

I know you believe in Chris, and maybe we will find he wasn't involved, perhaps we will have an indication after the preliminary hearing?

I don't know about Chris, but I think Jason has excellent representation.

Looks the same pair..:shrug:

[clueless]

This is strange…….

http://www.prairieghosts.com/villisca.html

Check out William Mansfield and compare it to Chris Harris

Tis scary.....you know I had the same reaction with a clip from the Casey Anthony case. There was one moment when she was sitting at the table in court and had turned and given a great big smile to someone. Her eyes became "alive". In that instant, I even said out loud "OMG Ted Bundy". I'll never forget it. Stills sends shivers down my spine to think about it. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Both boys do..Tim is good and so Steve Skelton.

Your right we don't know what under their clothes. However visible areas show not a scratch.. No hair missing on either no bruises, nothing.

I don't have a clue .But IMO it wont be anything they find..They've searched houses maybe the found a prescription from a dr over there. If there had been any injuries on Chris, Nicole would have seen them.

I highly doubt they are subpoenaing John Warner Hospital over a prescription found. It has to be something directly related to the case and Chris Harris.

It sounds more to me that Chris may have gone to the hospital between the time of the murders and before he was arrested.

imo

[JoAnn]

The subpoena was for John Warner Hospital in Clinton....ty for the links...

My mistake on the location, I thought it was Peoria. But I am confused on the subpoena....the one we are talking about here on the board.


Is it a subpoena linked to Chris? Or just a subpoena for the hospital and we are guessing it is for Chris? I have read so much from so many sources that I have gotten myself confused.

IMO If it isn't linked to Chris's name, then it could also be for Jason, even Jennifer? Or even for one of the Gee's from earlier in the day?

Another bit of a stretch..IF there was an argument that day between the Gee's with a male that left with a child, is it remotely possible that someone (Rick or Ruth and/OR whoever was at there home for the argument) could have acquired a injury during the argument that might have required medical?

[clueless]

So,

HARRIS, CHRISTOPHER J (http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_information.jsp?court=IL054025J&ocl=IL054025J,2009CF171,IL054025JL2009CF171D1)
Preliminary hrg 10/28/2009 13:15
HARRIS, JASON LEE (http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_information.jsp?court=IL054025J&ocl=IL054025J,2009CF178,IL054025JL2009CF178D1)
Preliminary hrg 10/28/2009 13:45

Only a half hour between them. Anybody have an idea what sort of new information might be released at a preliminary hearing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preliminary_hearing)? Sounds like the judge is the only one who will see any evidence. I assume at that point the defense also gets to see some evidence or how does that work?

According to that Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preliminary_hearing) about all that will happen is setting a date for arraignment when they finally enter a plea. I seriously doubt there will need to be any grand jury if they have a strong case.

Here's Illinois law: 2. Preliminary Hearing or Grand Jury Proceeding
The next court date is usually the Preliminary Hearing, where the judge will determine if there is enough evidence against you to have a trial.

Instead of a Preliminary Hearing, sometimes a Grand Jury hearing is held. A Grand Jury is a group of people, just like a trial jury. They decide whether to issue an indictment (formal charge) against you. A Grand Jury proceeding is secret, meaning neither you nor your lawyer is allowed to be in the courtroom while it is taking place. You will find out afterwards if a trial will take place.

Under Illinois law, either a Preliminary Hearing or a Grand Jury usually must take place within 30 days of your arrest, if you are being held at a county jail, or 60 days if you are out on bond. The only exceptions are when a defendant creates the delay or there are issues involving the defendant's competency.

[AmndaRcknwth]

My mistake on the location, I thought it was Peoria. But I am confused on the subpoena....the one we are talking about here on the board.


Is it a subpoena linked to Chris? Or just a subpoena for the hospital and we are guessing it is for Chris? I have read so much from so many sources that I have gotten myself confused.

IMO If it isn't linked to Chris's name, then it could also be for Jason, even Jennifer? Or even for one of the Gee's from earlier in the day?

Another bit of a stretch..IF there was an argument that day between the Gee's with a male that left with a child, is it remotely possible that someone (Rick or Ruth and/OR whoever was at there home for the argument) could have acquired a injury during the argument that might have required medical?

The subpoena is for Chris.
No one else. Just Chris.

If subpoenas are issured regarding the others, it will appear under their own name(s).

Click on the picture of this document to make it full size in order to be able to read it.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Gee%20-%20Constant%20Murders/?action=view&current=subpoena.jpg

[GentleBreeze]

So,

HARRIS, CHRISTOPHER J (http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_information.jsp?court=IL054025J&ocl=IL054025J,2009CF171,IL054025JL2009CF171D1)
Preliminary hrg 10/28/2009 13:15
HARRIS, JASON LEE (http://www.judici.com/courts/cases/case_information.jsp?court=IL054025J&ocl=IL054025J,2009CF178,IL054025JL2009CF178D1)
Preliminary hrg 10/28/2009 13:45

Only a half hour between them. Anybody have an idea what sort of new information might be released at a preliminary hearing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preliminary_hearing)? Sounds like the judge is the only one who will see any evidence. I assume at that point the defense also gets to see some evidence or how does that work?

According to that Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preliminary_hearing) about all that will happen is setting a date for arraignment when they finally enter a plea. I seriously doubt there will need to be any grand jury if they have a strong case.

Usually in a PH the lead detective will testify, the ME and possibly a couple of other witnesses. The DA will give up very little of the evidence. The sole Judge will determine if there is enough probable cause that warrants a criminal trial where a jury will determine the guilt of the defendant.

Actually a GJ is not chosen because a case is weak. The DA is very aware that even though an indictment may be handed down by a GJ he has to prove the case BARD. Many DAs opts for a GJ as it prevents vital evidence from getting out into the public since grand jurors are sworn to secrecy. This can be done so that the jury pool will not be tainted or giving the defense attorney an opening to make a claim that their client has been unduly prejudiced by what has been released. It also gives the State a better advantage of trying the case in the county it happened in rather than having a change of venue which is both, tedious and costly.

So I don't expect we will hear much of the evidence at the PH but it may be more than we know now. DAs always holds their best evidence for trial. The defense attorneys will be able to cross examine witnesses only on what they have testified to.......they cannot go on a fishing expedition and go beyond the scope of direct examination.

The attorneys will not get any discovery evidence until at least after the arraignment. Usually the presiding Judge will give a time line for evidence to be turned over to the defense. In most states it has to all be done at least 30 days before trial begins and imo these trials will not happen anytime too soon.

imo

[JoAnn]

Usually in a PH the lead detective will testify, the ME and possibly a couple of other witnesses. The DA will give up very little of the evidence. The sole Judge will determine if there is enough probable cause that warrants a criminal trial where a jury will determine the guilt of the defendant.

Actually a GJ is not chosen because a case is weak. The DA is very aware that even though an indictment may be handed down by a GJ he has to prove the case BARD. Many DAs opts for a GJ as it prevents vital evidence from getting out into the public since grand jurors are sworn to secrecy. This can be done so that the jury pool will not be tainted or giving the defense attorney an opening to make a claim that their client has been unduly prejudiced by what has been released. It also gives the State a better advantage of trying the case in the county it happened in rather than having a change of venue which is both, tedious and costly.

So I don't expect we will hear much of the evidence at the PH but it may be more than we know now. DAs always holds their best evidence for trial. The defense attorneys will be able to cross examine witnesses only on what they have testified to.......they cannot go on a fishing expedition and go beyond the scope of direct examination.

The attorneys will not get any discovery evidence until at least after the arraignment. Usually the presiding Judge will give a time line for evidence to be turned over to the defense. In most states it has to all be done at least 30 days before trial begins and imo these trials will not happen anytime too soon.

imo
---

Good work!

[JoAnn]

The subpoena is for Chris.
No one else. Just Chris.

If subpoenas are issured regarding the others, it will appear under their own name(s).

Click on the picture of this document to make it full size in order to be able to read it.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Gee%20-%20Constant%20Murders/?action=view&current=subpoena.jpg

___
well that certainly narrows the field of possibilities doesn't it!

[GentleBreeze]

---

Good work!


Thank you, JoAnn.

Nice to "see" you.:smile:

imo

[happygert]

I highly doubt they are subpoenaing John Warner Hospital over a prescription found. It has to be something directly related to the case and Chris Harris.

It sounds more to me that Chris may have gone to the hospital between the time of the murders and before he was arrested.

imo

You dont think Nicole would have noticed if Chris had injuries?

Ok Lets say he went between time of murders and before the arrest can you say something didnt happen after the muders and not at the time of the murders?....

[happygert]

Exact Match? 2009CF171 HARRIS, CHRISTOPHER JLast Search | Information | Dispositions | History | Payments | Fines & Fees
Date Entry Judge
Entered Under: HARRIS, CHRISTOPHER J
10/08/2009 Subpoena Duces Tecum showing service by mail as to Dr. John Warner Hospital Filed. Returnable: 10-13-09 at 1:30 pm. Notice of Subpoena Duces Tecum as to Dr. John Warner Hospital Filed. Subpoena Duces Tecum showing service by mail as to Verizon Wireless Filed. Returnable: 10-13-09 at 1:30 pm. Notice of Subpoena Duces Tecum as to Verizon Wireless Filed. Subpoena Duces Tecum showing service by mail as to U.S. Cellular Filed. Returnable: 10-13-09 at 1:30 pm. Notice of Subpoena Duces Tecum as to U.S. Cellular Filed. Subpoena Duces Tecum showing service by mail as to U.S. Cellular Filed. Returnable: 10-13-09 at 1:30 pm. Notice of Subpoena Duces Tecum as to U.S. Cellular Filed. UNASSIGNED
10/06/2009 Mittimus issued to Logan County Sheriff. Sheriff's Transportation Slip filed. Sheriff Fees: $25.00 UNASSIGNED
10/06/2009 AAGStephen Plazibat, AAG Michael Atteberry, SA, ASAW and PD Timoney and deft appear. Matter set for Preliminary Hearing on October 28, 2009 at 1:15p.m. Notice given in open court. Deft remanded to custody of Logan County Sheriff. TMH
10/02/2009 Deft appears in custody of Logan County Sheriff. State present by AAG Stephen Plazibat, AAG Michael Atteberry, State's Attorney McIntosh and Assistant State's Attorney Jon Wright. Information read. Copy handed to deft. Deft advised of rights. Deft admonished. Deft advised of right to attorney. Defendant requests Public Defender. Chief Public Defender Patrick Timoney is appointed and appears with defendant. Bond is denied. Further appearance with counsel is set for 10-6-09 at 3:00pm. Verified statement of arrest is ordered sealed and not to be opened except by order of this court. Deft remanded to custody of Sheriff of Logan County. TMH
10/02/2009 **Complaint filed on 10/02/2009 6 Count Information Filed. Mittimus issued to Logan County Sheriff.


IMO this doesnt show anything yet......Maybe a fishing expedition..

[GentleBreeze]

Exact Match? 2009CF171 HARRIS, CHRISTOPHER JLast Search | Information | Dispositions | History | Payments | Fines & Fees
Date Entry Judge
Entered Under: HARRIS, CHRISTOPHER J
10/08/2009 Subpoena Duces Tecum showing service by mail as to Dr. John Warner Hospital Filed. Returnable: 10-13-09 at 1:30 pm. Notice of Subpoena Duces Tecum as to Dr. John Warner Hospital Filed. Subpoena Duces Tecum showing service by mail as to Verizon Wireless Filed. Returnable: 10-13-09 at 1:30 pm. Notice of Subpoena Duces Tecum as to Verizon Wireless Filed. Subpoena Duces Tecum showing service by mail as to U.S. Cellular Filed. Returnable: 10-13-09 at 1:30 pm. Notice of Subpoena Duces Tecum as to U.S. Cellular Filed. Subpoena Duces Tecum showing service by mail as to U.S. Cellular Filed. Returnable: 10-13-09 at 1:30 pm. Notice of Subpoena Duces Tecum as to U.S. Cellular Filed. UNASSIGNED
10/06/2009 Mittimus issued to Logan County Sheriff. Sheriff's Transportation Slip filed. Sheriff Fees: $25.00 UNASSIGNED
10/06/2009 AAGStephen Plazibat, AAG Michael Atteberry, SA, ASAW and PD Timoney and deft appear. Matter set for Preliminary Hearing on October 28, 2009 at 1:15p.m. Notice given in open court. Deft remanded to custody of Logan County Sheriff. TMH
10/02/2009 Deft appears in custody of Logan County Sheriff. State present by AAG Stephen Plazibat, AAG Michael Atteberry, State's Attorney McIntosh and Assistant State's Attorney Jon Wright. Information read. Copy handed to deft. Deft advised of rights. Deft admonished. Deft advised of right to attorney. Defendant requests Public Defender. Chief Public Defender Patrick Timoney is appointed and appears with defendant. Bond is denied. Further appearance with counsel is set for 10-6-09 at 3:00pm. Verified statement of arrest is ordered sealed and not to be opened except by order of this court. Deft remanded to custody of Sheriff of Logan County. TMH
10/02/2009 **Complaint filed on 10/02/2009 6 Count Information Filed. Mittimus issued to Logan County Sheriff.


IMO this doesnt show anything yet......Maybe a fishing expedition..

I don't think so happygert. They have to get a Judge to sign off on these subpoenas. I think it ties into the evidence they have uncovered during the investigation. A Judge doesn't just let them go on a fishing expedition.

imo

[Amy]

Blunder:w00t: Sorry Amy can't you see I'm trying to drive you crazy. No really I messed up, I meant to say Gee. Too many surnames in this case. Time to go have a cup of tea and watch TV I think. Again sorry everyone.

Quite all right. I know I don't get to all the posts and links, so was thinking there could have been something I missed. Thanks.

[m3t00]

Thanks for the thorough explanations clueless (http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showpost.php?p=13556089&postcount=130) and GentleBreeze (http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showpost.php?p=13556116&postcount=132).

The attorneys will not get any discovery evidence until at least after the arraignment.

This must make defense attorneys crazy when deciding how to plea guilty/not guilty. Once they've seen all the evidence, is that when defendants normally start plea bargaining?

[happygert]

If Chris was the victim here you'd all be saying yes Rick has been in trouble for drugs, maybe Chris owed Rick money...Maybe Rick owed someone money for drugs. You dont have 500 grams of pot laying around. For Your own personal use....
Everyone's so down on Chris cause he worked at steak an Shake an was going to school. I havent seen one thing where Nicole ever took him to court for back child support. So he was doing the right thing by his family. He had a job. more then I can say for some.
Everyons worried about what Nicoles doing and her nursing license.
Im sure Nicole has about all she can handle on her plate right now trying to PROTECT her children from people who believe that their DADDY murdered her Grandpa, step-grandma, and her Aunt and Uncles. which by the was Nicole dont believe it either. Also specualtions about Rick helping Nicole is just that and nothing more.

Where was the Gee income coming from? Oh I know you'll all say he had his own business...OK was he working at his own business?..Did he have jobs to do ? Was he working on some job?
He used to help his stepdad was he still helping him?



.

[GentleBreeze]

You don't think Nicole would have noticed if Chris had injuries?

Ok Lets say he went between time of murders and before the arrest can you say something didn't happen after the murders and not at the time of the murders?....

Surely she was in deep despair for days after losing so much of her family. I doubt she was gawking at his naked body at that time. Maybe he made sure she didnt see the wounds.

And he may have told her some cockamamie story about getting hurt doing some kind of manual work and she believed him.

If he was treated the doctor would know how old the wounds were and exactly what type of wound he suffered. Juries tend to not believe in coincidence when it comes to murder trials imo.

imo

[Amy]

That is what I remember also GentleBreeze.

If she recently received her nursing degree, she would still have to pass the State Boards. jmo

These days, you can take boards about any time. There are multiple testing sites, multiple dates. Nurses that graduated last May (here) could have taken boards within the week, altho they all waited a bit. Some had to wait because the seats @ the testing site they wanted were already filled. Also, you know pretty much the day of testing whether or not you have passed, and certainly within the week.

[happygert]

I don't think so happygert. They have to get a Judge to sign off on these subpoenas. I think it ties into the evidence they have uncovered during the investigation. A Judge doesn't just let them go on a fishing expedition.

imo

No i dont believe thats true.. The Judge does not have to sign a subpoenas......Judge signs warrants .....

[Amy]

Thanks to both of you for the insight. Now I understand why all the wondering about records subppenaed from the hospital in Clinton. So, obviously somebody went to the Clinton hospital for medical care. I didn't get that before since I am not familiar with Southern Illinois.

It could also be information about Tabitha. Possibly she was first taken to Clinton, if that was the closest ER, to be stabilized for the trip to Peoria. If so, I would imagine the records for what was done there for her would be important.

[happygert]

Surely she was in deep despair for days after losing so much of her family. I doubt she was gawking at his naked body at that time. Maybe he made sure she didnt see the wounds.

And he may have told her some cockamamie story about getting hurt doing some kind of manual work and she believed him.

If he was treated the doctor would know how old the wounds were and exactly what type of wound he suffered. Juries tend to not believe in coincidence when it comes to murder trials imo.

imo

OK and by the same token NICOLE would noticed....Ok the only was Nicole would not have noticed anything is if there was nothing to notice.

[GentleBreeze]

If Chris was the victim here you'd all be saying yes Rick has been in trouble for drugs, maybe Chris owed Rick money...Maybe Rick owed someone money for drugs. You dont have 500 grams of pot laying around. For Your own personal use....
Everyone's so down on Chris cause he worked at steak an Shake an was going to school. I haven't seen one thing where Nicole ever took him to court for back child support. So he was doing the right thing by his family. He had a job. more then I can say for some.
Everyons worried about what Nicoles doing and her nursing license.
Im sure Nicole has about all she can handle on her plate right now trying to PROTECT her children from people who believe that their DADDY murdered her Grandpa, step-grandma, and her Aunt and Uncles. which by the was Nicole dont believe it either. Also speculations about Rick helping Nicole is just that and nothing more.

Where was the Gee income coming from? Oh I know you'll all say he had his own business...OK was he working at his own business?..Did he have jobs to do ? Was he working on some job?
He used to help his stepdad was he still helping him?



.

The drug charges for either of them were so long ago I wouldn't find that relevant either way. If Chris was the victim instead of the perpetrator and he was killed by Rick then I would believe that Rick did it because he did not want Chris in his daughter's life BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED HERE. Chris isn't a victim nor Jason. They are the accused perpetrators of one of the most horrible crimes I have heard about in years imo.

Are you sure she never took him to court for child support. :confused: I thought I read that she did.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

No i dont believe thats true.. The Judge does not have to sign a subpoenas......Judge signs warrants .....


administer oaths and affirmations
issue subpoenas authorized by law
rule on offers of proof and receive relevant evidence
take or cause depositions to be taken
regulate the course of the hearing
hold conferences for the settlement or simplification of the issues, and
rule on procedural requests or similar matters

http://illinoislawyerfinder.com/legalinfo/pamphlets/legalcareer.html

[Amy]

Both boys do..Tim is good and so Steve Skelton.

Your right we dont know what under their clothes. However visible areas show not a scratch.. No hair missing on either no brusies, nothing.

I dont have a clue .But IMO it wont be anything they find..They've searched houses maybe the found a prescription from a dr over there. If there had been any injuries on Chris, Nicole would have seen them.

But, would she report them? She is in a hard place between the family she loves and the man she loves.

[clueless]

These days, you can take boards about any time. There are multiple testing sites, multiple dates. Nurses that graduated last May (here) could have taken boards within the week, altho they all waited a bit. Some had to wait because the seats @ the testing site they wanted were already filled. Also, you know pretty much the day of testing whether or not you have passed, and certainly within the week.

Hi Amy, I think we established she had just rec'd her "Associated Degree" from Lincoln College. It's upthread.

[KittyMom]

If Chris was the victim here you'd all be saying yes Rick has been in trouble for drugs, maybe Chris owed Rick money...Maybe Rick owed someone money for drugs. You dont have 500 grams of pot laying around. For Your own personal use....
Everyone's so down on Chris cause he worked at steak an Shake an was going to school. I havent seen one thing where Nicole ever took him to court for back child support. So he was doing the right thing by his family. He had a job. more then I can say for some.
Everyons worried about what Nicoles doing and her nursing license.
Im sure Nicole has about all she can handle on her plate right now trying to PROTECT her children from people who believe that their DADDY murdered her Grandpa, step-grandma, and her Aunt and Uncles. which by the was Nicole dont believe it either. Also specualtions about Rick helping Nicole is just that and nothing more.

Where was the Gee income coming from? Oh I know you'll all say he had his own business...OK was he working at his own business?..Did he have jobs to do ? Was he working on some job?
He used to help his stepdad was he still helping him?



.

I'm not about to begin to bash a victim. Not only is it uncalled for considering the circumstances but, iirc, it's a no-no on this board.

[TennB]

If Chris was the victim here you'd all be saying yes Rick has been in trouble for drugs, maybe Chris owed Rick money...Maybe Rick owed someone money for drugs. You dont have 500 grams of pot laying around. For Your own personal use....
Everyone's so down on Chris cause he worked at steak an Shake an was going to school. I havent seen one thing where Nicole ever took him to court for back child support. So he was doing the right thing by his family. He had a job. more then I can say for some.
Everyons worried about what Nicoles doing and her nursing license.
Im sure Nicole has about all she can handle on her plate right now trying to PROTECT her children from people who believe that their DADDY murdered her Grandpa, step-grandma, and her Aunt and Uncles. which by the was Nicole dont believe it either. Also specualtions about Rick helping Nicole is just that and nothing more.

Where was the Gee income coming from? Oh I know you'll all say he had his own business...OK was he working at his own business?..Did he have jobs to do ? Was he working on some job?
He used to help his stepdad was he still helping him?



.

I just went back and double checked the court records where Rick was charged with possession of pot. I may be reading it wrong, but I believe it says LESS than 500 grams. That could be any amount from 1 gram to 499. If I'm wrong, please, someone, correct me. I'm no expert.

[clueless]

I just went back and double checked the court records where Rick was charged with possession of pot. I may be reading it wrong, but I believe it says LESS than 500 grams. That could be any amount from 1 gram to 499. If I'm wrong, please, someone, correct me. I'm no expert.

I would be greater than (>).

[TennB]

I would be greater than (>).

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I'm the one who is clueless.:blushing:

[KittyMom]

Well, in looking for info on the subpoena process in Il I ran across this.

http://www.newsroomlawblog.com/tags/subpoenas/
Illinois Judge Orders Disclosure of Anonymous Commenters
The judge emphasized that the shield law ought not apply "to those individuals who voluntarily post information in a forum designed to elicit citizen's opinions in response to a newspaper article." (emphasis in original).

:ohmy: Considering some of the posts made in this case this is veryyyyyyy interesting!

[GentleBreeze]

Well, in looking for info on the subpoena process in Il I ran across this.

http://www.newsroomlawblog.com/tags/subpoenas/
Illinois Judge Orders Disclosure of Anonymous Commenters


:ohmy: Considering some of the posts made in this case this is veryyyyyyy interesting!

Wow! Very interesting. I have always felt that some of the posts on some of these kind of sites were going to come back and bite someone in the butt.

imo

[happygert]

I just went back and double checked the court records where Rick was charged with possession of pot. I may be reading it wrong, but I believe it says LESS than 500 grams. That could be any amount from 1 gram to 499. If I'm wrong, please, someone, correct me. I'm no expert.

1995CF158 GEE, RAYMOND FLast Search | Information | Dispositions | History | Payments | Fines & Fees
Name No. Qualifier Desc Type Date Plea Status
Count 1 07/25/1995
Charge 1 None POSSESS CANNABIS/>500 GRAMS Original Guilty Class 4 Felony
Disposition 1 101 - Guilty 01/02/1996
Count 2 07/25/1995
Charge 1 None Unknown Charge, Call Circuit Clerk's Office Original Class 2 Felony
Disposition 1 209 - Dismiss/State Motion



No its not less then.. if it was less then 500 grams they would have wrote it differently..for example



1994CF125 MILLER, GERALD LLast Search | Information | Dispositions | History | Payments | Fines & Fees
Name No. Qualifier Desc Type Date Plea Status
Count 1 12/28/1994
Charge 1 None POSS CANNABIS/30-500 GRAM/SUBQ Original Guilty Class 3 Felony
Disposition 1 101 - Guilty 06/28/1995
Sentence 1 201 - DOC
r example:

[happygert]

I'm not about to begin to bash a victim. Not only is it uncalled for considering the circumstances but, iirc, it's a no-no on this board.

Not bashing anyone.. It is a fact that Rick was busted for over 500 grams of pot. Asking questions..not supposed to ask questions about the victims?

[GentleBreeze]

Not bashing anyone.. It is a fact that Rick was busted for over 500 grams of pot. Asking questions..not supposed to ask questions about the victims?

But come on, happygert that happpened THIRTEEN YEARS AGO!!!!! ETA: Correction FOURTEEN YEARS AGO!

[JoAnn]

Well, in looking for info on the subpoena process in Il I ran across this.

http://www.newsroomlawblog.com/tags/subpoenas/
Illinois Judge Orders Disclosure of Anonymous Commenters


:ohmy: Considering some of the posts made in this case this is veryyyyyyy interesting!

----

Interesting!

[VC2]

Usually in a PH the lead detective will testify, the ME and possibly a couple of other witnesses. The DA will give up very little of the evidence. The sole Judge will determine if there is enough probable cause that warrants a criminal trial where a jury will determine the guilt of the defendant.

Actually a GJ is not chosen because a case is weak. The DA is very aware that even though an indictment may be handed down by a GJ he has to prove the case BARD. Many DAs opts for a GJ as it prevents vital evidence from getting out into the public since grand jurors are sworn to secrecy. This can be done so that the jury pool will not be tainted or giving the defense attorney an opening to make a claim that their client has been unduly prejudiced by what has been released. It also gives the State a better advantage of trying the case in the county it happened in rather than having a change of venue which is both, tedious and costly.

So I don't expect we will hear much of the evidence at the PH but it may be more than we know now. DAs always holds their best evidence for trial. The defense attorneys will be able to cross examine witnesses only on what they have testified to.......they cannot go on a fishing expedition and go beyond the scope of direct examination.

The attorneys will not get any discovery evidence until at least after the arraignment. Usually the presiding Judge will give a time line for evidence to be turned over to the defense. In most states it has to all be done at least 30 days before trial begins and imo these trials will not happen anytime too soon.

imo

A lot can come out of a PH. I fully believe that the case against OJ showed its weakness in the PH. I will never ever forget Shapiro asking the ME "well when do you plan to examine xyz..perhaps the time is NOW??" and the ME looking like a deer in the headlights. Didn't they also put on witnesses? I know it took a few days not just a half hour

More attorney's imo should take the aggressive position in a PH if the case is weak or has evidence problems. To many are afraid to do so but since discovery is reciprocal its not like the DA won't learn what they have...if they believe the defendant is innocent it's the best way to expose weaknesses from the start. I may be wrong but seems there have been a number of cases that the defense won by going on the offensive right out of teh starting gate.

I have a real problem with GJ's. I think the secrecy and the fact that only the prosecution can present the case is a huge unfairness. It gives rise to the old saw that a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich. If they want secret proceedings then let the defense be a part of it as well. Still sealed to the public but far more balanced.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

A lot can come out of a PH. I fully believe that the case against OJ showed its weakness in the PH. I will never ever forget Shapiro asking the ME "well when do you plan to examine xyz..perhaps the time is NOW??" and the ME looking like a deer in the headlights. Didn't they also put on witnesses? I know it took a few days not just a half hour

More attorney's imo should take the aggressive position in a PH if the case is weak or has evidence problems. To many are afraid to do so but since discovery is reciprocal its not like the DA won't learn what they have...if they believe the defendant is innocent it's the best way to expose weaknesses from the start. I may be wrong but seems there have been a number of cases that the defense won by going on the offensive right out of teh starting gate.

I have a real problem with GJ's. I think the secrecy and the fact that only the prosecution can present the case is a huge unfairness. It gives rise to the old saw that a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich. If they want secret proceedings then let the defense be a part of it as well. Still sealed to the public but far more balanced.

imo

Hi VC!

I have no problem with a Grand Jury. The DA is the only one there because he is the one that is seeking an indictment. He still certainly knows that he has to prove the case BARD at trial when and if he does get an indictment.

I don't believe that old saying. I have been on a GJ and took my oath very seriously. Since imo, more people are guilty than not so it is only logical that GJs hand out more true bills than no bills. With the one I was on we had cases which were true billed and some we did not.

No defense attorney should be allowed to go beyond the scope of direct and I am sure this Judge in this case will not let it happen in case one of these attorneys tries to go on a fishing expedition.

The attorney in this case doesn't have a clue what the DA has in this case and has stated they don't know the evidence the State has against their client.

I don't think much will be revealed in this case. The only PHs that I have seen that were actually lengthy have been California cases. Such as the one you mentioned and one of the most revealing was the Scott Dyleski PH out of California too. They seem to prefer mini-trials for PHs. I just dont see that happening with these cases.

I have a feeling the evidence against both of these defendants are very strong.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Rick's Class 4 felony with guilty finding was:


http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1937&ChapAct=720%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B550%2F&ChapterID=53&ChapterName=CRIMINAL+OFFENSES&ActName=Cannabis+Control+Act.

It seems that the description of the charge as "POSSESS CANNABIS/>500 GRAMS" means "possession of cannabis not greater than 500 grams" with the "greater than 30 grams" being implied.

Thank you for clearing that up.

I am sure TennB would be glad to know that.

imo

[VC2]

If Chris was the victim here you'd all be saying yes Rick has been in trouble for drugs, maybe Chris owed Rick money...Maybe Rick owed someone money for drugs. You dont have 500 grams of pot laying around. For Your own personal use....
Everyone's so down on Chris cause he worked at steak an Shake an was going to school. I havent seen one thing where Nicole ever took him to court for back child support. So he was doing the right thing by his family. He had a job. more then I can say for some.
Everyons worried about what Nicoles doing and her nursing license.
Im sure Nicole has about all she can handle on her plate right now trying to PROTECT her children from people who believe that their DADDY murdered her Grandpa, step-grandma, and her Aunt and Uncles. which by the was Nicole dont believe it either. Also specualtions about Rick helping Nicole is just that and nothing more.

Where was the Gee income coming from? Oh I know you'll all say he had his own business...OK was he working at his own business?..Did he have jobs to do ? Was he working on some job?
He used to help his stepdad was he still helping him?



.

Gert 15 years ago approx. it wasn't that unusual to have a pound for you and your friends use. However a pot possession charge from then means nothing. Probably many of us have bought pot when we were teens lol. Some might still and be otherwise law abiding.

IIRC Nicole did take him to court for back child supports, i believe it is in the links. 32,000 dollars worth.

You desperately want to believe that Chris was not the perpetrator and i can understand that, What i don't understand is why you think that it is impossible especially given the arrest now of Jason for the same crime. There is no way LE arrested either of the two for something like fingerprints in the house. Apparently there was a lot of forensics which makes sense if it was a rage fueled massacre and they tried to clean up there afterwards.

I really don't see them leaving with blood all over them, no reason they didn't just shower there and change clothes ..be it something they brought with them or something of ricks, just to get away looking normal. MANY a killer has been caught because of blood in the drains after they washed themselves or their hands.

Another thing that makes sense to me is Tabitha. When Chris was arrested we knew they were still looking at others but once the 3 were arrested for obstructing justice it seemed that the information she was in fair condition was released. She is 3 not an infant and would be fully capable of saying who did it if she saw them and they were part of the people she knew. Just like the 2 year old in the case where he said "mommy is sleeping in the rug" referring to his dad carrying her out in a duvet cover and telling about the fight and mommy hitting her head.

I think they were arrested on both forensic evidence and Tabitha's. I can't see any good reason to bar Nicole from seeing her unless she freaked when Nicole and Chris visited, which would be understandable if "uncle chris" had committed the crime. She might always think of them as a pair too at her age, just seeing Nicole upsetting her because of the association

IMO

[m3t00]

Rick's Class 4 felony with guilty finding was:


http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1937&ChapAct=720%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B550%2F&ChapterID=53&ChapterName=CRIMINAL+OFFENSES&ActName=Cannabis+Control+Act.

It seems that the description of the charge as "POSSESS CANNABIS/>500 GRAMS" means "possession of cannabis not greater than 500 grams" with the "greater than 30 grams" being implied.

Wondered about that too. Class 4 matches 30-500 and there was a Class 2 which was dropped. Must have had a good lawyer.

I regret posting about this stuff earlier. Unless somebody gets on here with first hand knowledge all this is meaningless and can only cause more pain.

[VC2]

Snipped

by William J Campbell, American jurist, judge, US District Court, US News & World Report, 19 June 1978
Campbell was the longest serving Chief Judge of the United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Campbell

I completely agree with him. Think about it, any one of us could with just a few facts make a case against someone we know for murder. circumstantial, but a case if there is no evidence from the other side.

[VC2]

Snipped

by William J Campbell, American jurist, judge, US District Court, US News & World Report, 19 June 1978
Campbell was the longest serving Chief Judge of the United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Campbell

you know, as we are discussing this, i am watching the story of Carey Stayner the Yosemite killer.

Listening to the Sheriff discuss how as he drove Carey for the first interview at the FBI, he mentioned the abduction of Steven Stayner and how he could tell Carey was really hurting..even offered to get him some help for it. At that time the sheriff of the town he was eating only knew they wanted to talk to him, not what for. It is amazing how good people can do terrible things or how people who were good to start with as kids turn into angry killers but no one can imagine it. They seem nice and quiet and friendly.

In that case i am convinced that if that pedophile had not kidnapped and kept little steven for 7 years Carey would have grown up as a normal man. What he did was horrific yet i can't help but feel a little empathy for him

Chris may well be the same sort of person, outwardly no one would have a clue but able to do some awful things due to internal rage

IMO

[happygert]

Rick's Class 4 felony with guilty finding was:


http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1937&ChapAct=720%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B550%2F&ChapterID=53&ChapterName=CRIMINAL+OFFENSES&ActName=Cannabis+Control+Act.

It seems that the description of the charge as "POSSESS CANNABIS/>500 GRAMS" means "possession of cannabis not greater than 500 grams" with the "greater than 30 grams" being implied.

the 30-500 was gerald miller class 3 felony..
Charge Text: Exact Match? 1994CF125 MILLER, GERALD LLast Search | Information | Dispositions | History | Payments | Fines & Fees
Name No. Qualifier Desc Type Date Plea Status
Count 1 12/28/1994
Charge 1 None POSS CANNABIS/30-500 GRAM/SUBQ Original Guilty Class 3 Felony
Disposition 1 101 - Guilty 06/28/1995
Sentence 1 201 - DOC

[VC2]

that last post was meant to ask if anyone has knowledge of the family dynamics of both men as kids?

[happygert]

this one is Rick's


1995CF158 GEE, RAYMOND FLast Search | Information | Dispositions | History | Payments | Fines & Fees
Name No. Qualifier Desc Type Date Plea Status
Count 1 07/25/1995
Charge 1 None POSSESS CANNABIS/>500 GRAMS Original Guilty Class 4 Felony
Disposition 1 101 - Guilty 01/02/1996
Count 2 07/25/1995
Charge 1 None Unknown Charge, Call Circuit Clerk's Office Original Class 2 Felony
Disposition 1 209 - Dismiss/State Motion 01/02/1996

[JoAnn]

Snipped

I don't see a simple answer. DA's often will use a GJ to get an indictment without exposing the evidence to the public because the case is weak, so they intend to coerce the defendant into a plea agreement, and they can't very well do that if the public knows the facts. DA's obtain facts that can't go to trial because the process used to obtain them were unlawful. About two-thirds of homicides end in a plea agreement, and the public learns almost nothing about the facts because those cases don't go to trial.

by Alan M Derschowitz, US News & World Report, 09 August 1982

---
A link to the booklet they give a person on the Grand Jury..it explains what the purpose of GJ and what it can do..

http://www.19thcircuitcourt.state.il.us/jury/jury3.htm

snipped
In cases presented to the grand jury, the grand jury has a dual function. It determines that a person should be charged or prosecuted for a criminal act when it finds there is probable cause to believe the person has committed an offense. At the same time, it protects the innocent from unfounded accusation of crime and from the trouble, expense, and anxiety of a trial when there is, in fact, insufficient evidence to believe the accused is guilty of any criminal offense.

snipped

INDICTMENTS
When the witnesses have finished their testimony, it is then your duty to weigh the evidence which has been presented and to decide whether the evidence is sufficient to require the person or persons named to stand trial and answer the charge. The grand jury is the sole judge of the sufficiency of the evidence required to indict.

[happygert]

Gert 15 years ago approx. it wasn't that unusual to have a pound for you and your friends use. However a pot possession charge from then means nothing. Probably many of us have bought pot when we were teens lol. Some might still and be otherwise law abiding.

IIRC Nicole did take him to court for back child supports, i believe it is in the links. 32,000 dollars worth.

You desperately want to believe that Chris was not the perpetrator and i can understand that, What i don't understand is why you think that it is impossible especially given the arrest now of Jason for the same crime. There is no way LE arrested either of the two for something like fingerprints in the house. Apparently there was a lot of forensics which makes sense if it was a rage fueled massacre and they tried to clean up there afterwards.

I really don't see them leaving with blood all over them, no reason they didn't just shower there and change clothes ..be it something they brought with them or something of ricks, just to get away looking normal. MANY a killer has been caught because of blood in the drains after they washed themselves or their hands.

Another thing that makes sense to me is Tabitha. When Chris was arrested we knew they were still looking at others but once the 3 were arrested for obstructing justice it seemed that the information she was in fair condition was released. She is 3 not an infant and would be fully capable of saying who did it if she saw them and they were part of the people she knew. Just like the 2 year old in the case where he said "mommy is sleeping in the rug" referring to his dad carrying her out in a duvet cover and telling about the fight and mommy hitting her head.

I think they were arrested on both forensic evidence and Tabitha's. I can't see any good reason to bar Nicole from seeing her unless she freaked when Nicole and Chris visited, which would be understandable if "uncle chris" had committed the crime. She might always think of them as a pair too at her age, just seeing Nicole upsetting her because of the association

IMO

Well I dont know cause I never smoked pot nor did my friends. And IMO 500 grams is sure alot of pot even if your sharing with your friends. Rick wasn't a Teenager he was in his 30's.

Chris's record was for burglary and that was 10 years ago when he was 20 but that doesn't stop anyone from debating that. It looked like Chris had kept his nose Clean and was trying to better himself for his family.. I just cant believe he would do this horrible crime.
And your wrong about Nicole Taking Chris to court for back child support that was .. Ruth Gee who Took Gerald Miller to court in 9-9-2007. Ruth got a judgement for 32,079.21. which but court records not one dime has been paid to date..

Well If Logan County got forensics back that fast then they are Faster then Quantico.

I dont want to believe Chris was capable of what horrible things that was done to Rick Ruth and the kids. No One on here knows what Chris is like.. Everyone is so sure he committed these horrible murders I am NOT. Along with many others who know Chris including Nicole and her family.

As far as Tabitha goes she in a coma (medically induced) right now. unless something has changed in last few days.she's in a coma.and has been. If Tabitha ever tells anything that happen it will be a miracle. THATS MY OPINION.
It was reported that Tabitha lit up when Nicole and Chris was there .

So if thats true she didn't freak..IIRC it was in one of the papers.

This family didn't deserve what happened to them.. But do I think it was Chris? NO not even tiny bit. Do I think Chris had this Kind of rage no I dont.

Do I think there more to this case yes I do.
So Yes I am defending Chris. on this and I'm really sorry if that upsets people here on this boards. But this is my opinion.

[clueless]

Rick's Class 4 felony with guilty finding was:


http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=1937&ChapAct=720%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B550%2F&ChapterID=53&ChapterName=CRIMINAL+OFFENSES&ActName=Cannabis+Control+Act.

It seems that the description of the charge as "POSSESS CANNABIS/>500 GRAMS" means "possession of cannabis not greater than 500 grams" with the "greater than 30 grams" being implied.

Then I'm totally confused. Why list it as greater than 500 if it's not. Are you sure this doesn't have to do with a plea? Rick got a fine and Miller time for the same thing.. :confused:

[TennB]

Then I'm totally confused. Why list it as greater than 500 if it's not. Are you sure this doesn't have to do with a plea? Rick got a fine and Miller time for the same thing.. :confused:

If you go to the link that Scienter posted, I think it will explain it. It appears that Gerald Miller's was a subsequent offence thus a class 3 felony and the jail time.

[happygert]

Here I hope this will explain it..
Chris was busted for 2.5 grams of pot in 97.. if it was less then 500 grams that Rick got busted with it would have said so.. or it would have been like what it said on geralds. 30 - 500.. both of them were felonies.s. 2.5 id not felony.

heres on for 2.5

1997CM216 HARRIS, CHRISTOPHER JLast Search | Information | Dispositions | History | Payments | Fines & Fees
Name No. Qualifier Desc Type Date Plea Status
Count 1 Ticket Number: 216 05/03/1997
Charge 1 None POSSESS DRUG PARAPHERNALIA Original Class A Misdemeanor
Disposition 1 209 - Dismiss/State Motion 05/27/1997
Count 2 Ticket Number: 216 05/03/1997
Charge 1 None POSSESS CANNABIS< 2.5 GRAMS Original Guilty Class C Misdemeanor
Disposition 1 101 - Guilty 05/27/1997
Sentence 1 207 - Cond Disch/Spec Cond 12 months 05/27/1997 In Force
Sentence 2 301 - Fine 05/27/1997 In Force
Sentence 3 401 - Study/Voc Training 05/27/1997 In Force
Disposition 2 708 - Terminate/Satisfied


maybe chris was less then < 2.5 grams..

[clueless]

If you go to the link that Scienter posted, I think it will explain it. It appears that Gerald Miller's was a subsequent offence thus a class 3 felony and the jail time.

HI TennB, First of all, I'm sorry with apparently bad info. Second, I understand Miller's subsequent (but couldn't find it here.) but the description 30-500 grams is NOT the same.
I guess I can't understand why list in the description greater than and it's not?? I'm terribly confused and want to know.

[happygert]

HI TennB, First of all, I'm sorry with apparently bad info. Second, I understand Miller's subsequent (but couldn't find it here.) but the description 30-500 grams is NOT the same.
I guess I can't understand why list in the description greater than and it's not?? I'm terribly confused and want to know.

Clueless if it was not 500 grams it would not have been charged that way.

He was charged with a felony. Class 4 felony..

Gerald was charged with 30 - 500 grams... class 3 felony

Chris was charged with <2.5 grams ...Class c misdeamoner....


I hope this helps ..

[clueless]

that last post was meant to ask if anyone has knowledge of the family dynamics of both men as kids?

I don't know the dynamics, but just from the arrest record and knowing there was a divorce, parents living so far away in different states. Seems to me the kids might not have had anyone to give them direction. (OTOH some kids with both parents and no divorce do not give direction either.) That's it's ok to be angry, but it's how you express it. That's alot of rage for someone 22 and 30. Nothing can justify that massacre. Someone once told me you never know what you would do in a situation until your there. Maybe we won't know, if ever, until the trial.

[VC2]

Well I dont know cause I never smoked pot nor did my friends. And IMO 500 grams is sure alot of pot even if your sharing with your friends. Rick wasn't a Teenager he was in his 30's.

Chris's record was for burglary and that was 10 years ago when he was 20 but that doesn't stop anyone from debating that. It looked like Chris had kept his nose Clean and was trying to better himself for his family.. I just cant believe he would do this horrible crime.
And your wrong about Nicole Taking Chris to court for back child support that was .. Ruth Gee who Took Gerald Miller to court in 9-9-2007. Ruth got a judgement for 32,079.21. which but court records not one dime has been paid to date..

Well If Logan County got forensics back that fast then they are Faster then Quantico.

I dont want to believe Chris was capable of what horrible things that was done to Rick Ruth and the kids. No One on here knows what Chris is like.. Everyone is so sure he committed these horrible murders I am NOT. Along with many others who know Chris including Nicole and her family.

As far as Tabitha goes she in a coma (medically induced) right now. unless something has changed in last few days.she's in a coma.and has been. If Tabitha ever tells anything that happen it will be a miracle. THATS MY OPINION.
It was reported that Tabitha lit up when Nicole and Chris was there .

So if thats true she didn't freak..IIRC it was in one of the papers.

This family didn't deserve what happened to them.. But do I think it was Chris? NO not even tiny bit. Do I think Chris had this Kind of rage no I dont.

Do I think there more to this case yes I do.
So Yes I am defending Chris. on this and I'm really sorry if that upsets people here on this boards. But this is my opinion.

Gert I am not upset you are defending Chris but all i want to suggest is that you take in all possibilities and not close the door on one because it doesnt seem like him. Family annihilators as they are called are almost universally liked, don't have a mean bone in their body etc. It is almost like the reason they end up exploding into massacring a family is that they repress all the negative feelings until there is a straw that breaks the camels back

I supported Joran Van der Sloot for years, became friends with Dave and Robin and still refused to believe he was involved. Now i think i was wrong, i still don't think it was a murder but a covered up accident after the tapes of Joran but i spent a lot of time and energy on the creep. Majority of the creep part came later oddly enough, i just saw him as a teen who did some things he shouldn't and his explanation of Natalee's death i think i believe.

So yes i know how you feel and understand it. I also know it is better to keep an open mind and at least entertain the possibilities since charachter, known to others doesn't always show the ability to kill.

In fact most people have the ability but don't...the weak ones give in to their rage

IMO

[VC2]

I don't know the dynamics, but just from the arrest record and knowing there was a divorce, parents living so far away in different states. Seems to me the kids might not have had anyone to give them direction. (OTOH some kids with both parents and no divorce do not give direction either.) That's it's ok to be angry, but it's how you express it. That's alot of rage for someone 22 and 30. Nothing can justify that massacre. Someone once told me you never know what you would do in a situation until your there. Maybe we won't know, if ever, until the trial.

You never do know and don't make light of psychological abnormalities too. As a sufferer of treatment resistant severe depression (on disability for it) i do understand how it affects judgement.

The one killer i felt for and still feel for is Jeffrey Dahmer. I agree with Robert Ressler he should have been found guilty by reason of insanity. Yes he knew right from wrong even enough to make cops believe him with a victim but there was no way he could conform his actions. That is not my biggest reason though. His mom and dad essentially abandoned him when they divorced. Both assumed the other had Jeffrey when he was actually left alone in the home. Before the parents moved out the house had been divided by line where neither side crossed. Bizarre for an already troubled child. What made me start to feel him as a person was his talks with his dad publicly from prison, and his dads pain also taking some blame for creating Jeffrey. Jeffrey refused protective custody, felt he deserved to die which he did by another inmate but he tried hard to understand his reasons for his acts..and they at root had to do with pathological loneliness

I use that example to show that i don't think all horrific killers are evil, some are sick, some snap and wouldn't have in other situations. One thing i know though, none of us can be sure another is unable to murder or massacre.

IMO

[Amy]

Gert 15 years ago approx. it wasn't that unusual to have a pound for you and your friends use. However a pot possession charge from then means nothing. Probably many of us have bought pot when we were teens lol. Some might still and be otherwise law abiding.

IIRC Nicole did take him to court for back child supports, i believe it is in the links. 32,000 dollars worth.

You desperately want to believe that Chris was not the perpetrator and i can understand that, What i don't understand is why you think that it is impossible especially given the arrest now of Jason for the same crime. There is no way LE arrested either of the two for something like fingerprints in the house. Apparently there was a lot of forensics which makes sense if it was a rage fueled massacre and they tried to clean up there afterwards.

I really don't see them leaving with blood all over them, no reason they didn't just shower there and change clothes ..be it something they brought with them or something of ricks, just to get away looking normal. MANY a killer has been caught because of blood in the drains after they washed themselves or their hands.

Another thing that makes sense to me is Tabitha. When Chris was arrested we knew they were still looking at others but once the 3 were arrested for obstructing justice it seemed that the information she was in fair condition was released. She is 3 not an infant and would be fully capable of saying who did it if she saw them and they were part of the people she knew. Just like the 2 year old in the case where he said "mommy is sleeping in the rug" referring to his dad carrying her out in a duvet cover and telling about the fight and mommy hitting her head.

I think they were arrested on both forensic evidence and Tabitha's. I can't see any good reason to bar Nicole from seeing her unless she freaked when Nicole and Chris visited, which would be understandable if "uncle chris" had committed the crime. She might always think of them as a pair too at her age, just seeing Nicole upsetting her because of the association

IMO

BBM

I think this could be a possibility. I don't think there has been any listing of what evidence was found and removed from the Gee home. I know there has been "leaks" about the crime scene, but it is quite possible that those who are doing the leaking haven't told all. Or, perhaps the leakers don't know all the evidence gathered.

[clueless]

You never do know and don't make light of psychological abnormalities too. As a sufferer of treatment resistant severe depression (on disability for it) i do understand how it affects judgement.

The one killer i felt for and still feel for is Jeffrey Dahmer. I agree with Robert Ressler he should have been found guilty by reason of insanity. Yes he knew right from wrong even enough to make cops believe him with a victim but there was no way he could conform his actions. That is not my biggest reason though. His mom and dad essentially abandoned him when they divorced. Both assumed the other had Jeffrey when he was actually left alone in the home. Before the parents moved out the house had been divided by line where neither side crossed. Bizarre for an already troubled child. What made me start to feel him as a person was his talks with his dad publicly from prison, and his dads pain also taking some blame for creating Jeffrey. Jeffrey refused protective custody, felt he deserved to die which he did by another inmate but he tried hard to understand his reasons for his acts..and they at root had to do with pathological loneliness

I use that example to show that i don't think all horrific killers are evil, some are sick, some snap and wouldn't have in other situations. One thing i know though, none of us can be sure another is unable to murder or massacre.

IMO

VC2, I thought about this for a very long time and was in the middle of answering and my computer went down. I hope I can remember everything I replied to.

I did not intended in any way to make light of psychological abnormalties. If you perceived that, I am truly sorry.
I do believe there is alot going on here psychologically, some we may find out about, and some we may never know.
I know I do feel sadness for Chris and Jason. If they did do this, it is sad that they felt they had no other options. That is sad.
I do think whether a person is evil, sick or just snap, there has to be a reasoning behind it. How they process that judgement. I am by no means a professonal in this field. If what I have read is correct, there will be a psychological evaluation done.
This case is just beginning, we don't know anything for certain, except they have been charged. JMOO

[VC2]

VC2, I thought about this for a very long time and was in the middle of answering and my computer went down. I hope I can remember everything I replied to.

I did not intended in any way to make light of psychological abnormalties. If you perceived that, I am truly sorry.
I do believe there is alot going on here psychologically, some we may find out about, and some we may never know.
I know I do feel sadness for Chris and Jason. If they did do this, it is sad that they felt they had no other options. That is sad.
I do think whether a person is evil, sick or just snap, there has to be a reasoning behind it. How they process that judgement. I am by no means a professonal in this field. If what I have read is correct, there will be a psychological evaluation done.
This case is just beginning, we don't know anything for certain, except they have been charged. JMOO

Thanks clueless. I also don't mean to suggest that they excuse the perpetrator, the only person i felt really strongly about being in a psych hospital for the rest of his life was Dahmer. Just with my own far lesser diseasei know what it is like to go out of control. THank god i am not the sort to commit violence and was lucky enough to have a doctor on top of things.

Most don't.

At the same time to pretend these ppl become monsters in a vacuum is naive imo. So is the notion that you can/could recognize them before an arrest. I believe a few monsters are born due to a hard wiring problem but the majority are made. To have two family members involved makes me want to know more about how they were brought up and any dysfunction in the family. Not as an excuse but because i think the only way to lower these sort of crimes is to identify the ones at risk for psychopathy or going off the rails and get them into treatment very early. If the state has to pay for it, so what? it can save lives and not just the future perps.

Charlie to me seems a textbook case from what we know so far

IMO