Michael Jackson 10/7/09 thru 10/11

[Firehead11]

Jackson Investigation Wraps Up Next Week
Posted Oct 7th 2009 1:10AM by TMZ Staff

TMZ has learned the LAPD is on schedule to present the case against Dr. Conrad Murray to the L.A. County D.A.'s office next week.

As we first reported LAPD detectives planned to wrap up their case and present it by the second week in October. They were waiting on some written evaluations by medical professionals who reviewed the evidence surrounding Michael Jackson's death.

Our law enforcement sources say the medical reports are in and the LAPD plans to formally present the case to the D.A. next week.

Prosecutors have been working with the LAPD for months now, so it's not as if the evidence will be a surprise.

Sources say Dr. Murray is still the sole target.

One well-placed law enforcement source says there's a "70/30 chance" the D.A. will take the case to the L.A. County Grand Jury rather than charge Murray directly.

As one source said, this could be a complicated case and a lengthy preliminary hearing wouldn't have a whole lot of upside for prosecutors. A grand jury indictment would be easy to get and it would avoid a prelim.



Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0TG1RzwBV

[Firehead11]

Bitter Bidder Sues over Michael Jackson Auction
Posted Oct 6th 2009 3:18PM by TMZ Staff

A man who claims to have placed the highest bids on 170 items in a canceled Michael Jackson auction is furious he was never given the goods -- and now he wants at least $5,000,000 to ease the pain of the monumental letdown.


Richard Lapointe just filed a lawsuit against Michael Jackson's estate and Julien's Auction House -- the company that put together a massive MJ auction that was supposed to go down in April of this year. Julien's and Michael ended up butting heads over the auction -- it was eventually canceled.

In the lawsuit, filed in L.A. County Superior Court, Richard claims he was the only (and therefore the highest) bidder on 82 items and "may have been the highest bidder on not less than 88 additional items."

Richard claims Julien's notified him in writing on April 11 and 14 that his registration was complete and his bids had been received.

Then, on April 15, Richards claims Julien's canceled the auction "despite having accepted bids."

He's asking for a minimum of $5 million -- because he claims that's the "true market value of the items" he was bidding on.

Darren Julien just gave us this statement:

"He called us the day the auction was canceled and told us he has been emotionally damaged, and he asked what we would do to compensate for it. If he is that emotionally damaged, he can bet on the items when they come back up for auction on November 21st. Also, he accepted the terms on the bidder form which said the auction could be canceled at any time. "




Read more: http://www.tmz.com/page/2/#ixzz0TG2A1OAF


We all know that Jackson was sued a lot for unpaid bills. But in regards to this lawsuit, do you think it is a fair one? Should the estate be sued over this?

This man suffered pain? From a let down? Hey, I play the Powerball lottery when it gets big. Can I sue all of the states that support this lottery for the emotional pain of a major letdown because I did not win it?

[Unperson1984]

Thanks for the update Firehead. It will be interesting to see what Cooley decides to do with the case, I think he has to charge Murray with something.

[Firehead11]

Doesn't get any clearer than that FH. Maybe we should all file a class action suit for the emotional pain of not winnng the Powerball. Hell I was counting on that money. :wink:


Class action suits only make the lawyer richer The clients gets next to nothing....:wink:

I am greedy, I want my millions.

I really hate any courts time being wasted by the insane lawsuits that are filed on a daily basis.

Anyway, this will get us all a good laugh. (But no too loud, we might get sued for mocking him)

[Firehead11]

Thanks for the update Firehead. It will be interesting to see what Cooley decides to do with the case, I think he has to charge Murray with something.

I think most knew it was headed that way (Grand Jury) when LE had Murray's girlfriend interviewed there. Also since they now (rumored) linked the drug to Murray and being sent into CA from Neveda, this just might be the one crossed t that LE felt they needed.

I also believe that Jerry Brown will not let this case go without someone being charged for something, somewhere. How could he, when he charged Stern and the two doctors for contributing to Smith's drug abuse. :confused:

[Unperson1984]

I think most knew it was headed that way (Grand Jury) when LE had Murray's girlfriend interviewed there. Also since they now (rumored) linked the drug to Murray and being sent into CA from Neveda, this just might be the one crossed t that LE felt they needed.

I also believe that Jerry Brown will not let this case go without someone being charged for something, somewhere. How could he, when he charged Stern and the two doctors for contributing to Smith's drug abuse. :confused:

Politically speaking I hope the only African-American doctor involved isn't the only doctor charged. Other Jackson doctors certainly carry the same responsibility as those involved in the Smith case.
IMO

[LadyFuzz]

I think most knew it was headed that way (Grand Jury) when LE had Murray's girlfriend interviewed there. Also since they now (rumored) linked the drug to Murray and being sent into CA from Neveda, this just might be the one crossed t that LE felt they needed.

I also believe that Jerry Brown will not let this case go without someone being charged for something, somewhere. How could he, when he charged Stern and the two doctors for contributing to Smith's drug abuse. :confused:

Well it is Jackson. I guess the doctor will have to be charged, right? Just like it was Smith.

I would think some one should be charged for the medications Jackson craved and doctor shopped to get.

The drug Diprivan is not a controlled substance. I'm still surprised Jackson was addicted to this drug. Who would have thought that? Weird

Jackson knew how dangerous that drug was and chose to take his chances. Just saying.......

JMO

[LadyFuzz]

I'm coming to he conclusion Murray will probably be charged. I still don't believe Jackson's death was criminal.

I will be looking forward to the trial of anyone charged. I wonder if cameras will be allowed in the trials in CA.

JMO

[LadyFuzz]

I think most knew it was headed that way (Grand Jury) when LE had Murray's girlfriend interviewed there. Also since they now (rumored) linked the drug to Murray and being sent into CA from Neveda, this just might be the one crossed t that LE felt they needed.

I also believe that Jerry Brown will not let this case go without someone being charged for something, somewhere. How could he, when he charged Stern and the two doctors for contributing to Smith's drug abuse. :confused:

I thought a pharmacy was searched in CA and was linked to Murray right there. I hadn't heard the other rumor. Do you have the link? Remember this drug is NOT a controlled substance. Murray told police he gave Jackson diprivan. That is a link don't ya think?

JMOt

[Shells2]

Politically speaking I hope the only African-American doctor involved isn't the only doctor charged. Other Jackson doctors certainly carry the same responsibility as those involved in the Smith case.
IMO


I don't think it's necessary to pull the race card into this case.

[warhorse46]

I'm coming to he conclusion Murray will probably be charged. I still don't believe Jackson's death was criminal.

I will be looking forward to the trial of anyone charged. I wonder if cameras will be allowed in the trials in CA.

JMO



The state of California does allow camers in their court rooms but it is solely @ the discretion of the Judge. It will be the call of what ever Judge gets assigned the trial if there is one. Like you I hope the Judge does allow cameras in this trial.

[LadyFuzz]

:confused: The Doctor's SO was questioned during the Grand Jury. A Fed Ex receipt linked the diprivan ordered by Dr. Murray and shipped to her home. The links have been posted in recent threads and I recall responding to the post with link as it showed the importance of the Fed Ex receipt.

Was that a reliable source giving out that information? The Grand Jury and what occurs there is secret.

imo

[warhorse46]

Jackson Investigation Wraps Up Next Week
Posted Oct 7th 2009 1:10AM by TMZ Staff

TMZ has learned the LAPD is on schedule to present the case against Dr. Conrad Murray to the L.A. County D.A.'s office next week.

As we first reported LAPD detectives planned to wrap up their case and present it by the second week in October. They were waiting on some written evaluations by medical professionals who reviewed the evidence surrounding Michael Jackson's death.

Our law enforcement sources say the medical reports are in and the LAPD plans to formally present the case to the D.A. next week.

Prosecutors have been working with the LAPD for months now, so it's not as if the evidence will be a surprise.

Sources say Dr. Murray is still the sole target.

One well-placed law enforcement source says there's a "70/30 chance" the D.A. will take the case to the L.A. County Grand Jury rather than charge Murray directly.

As one source said, this could be a complicated case and a lengthy preliminary hearing wouldn't have a whole lot of upside for prosecutors. A grand jury indictment would be easy to get and it would avoid a prelim.



Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0TG1RzwBV



I sure wish the DA would go the prelim route but I understand why he would go the Grand Jury route with this case.

[LadyFuzz]

What I don't understand is that you continue to ask for links that have been posted over and over again as well as the fact that you have posted that Diprivan in not a controlled substance more times than I can remember. We get it. Diprivan/Propofol is NOT a controlled substance. Once again, We get it!!!

Why so snarky? I didn't see that information and what difference does ita make that is was shipped from Nevada to the girlfriend's house in CA?

I don't think anyone gets it about Diprivan not being a controlled substance. It can be bought and shipped can't it????

Besides, it was bought in CA at a pharmacy by Murray, wasn't it?????

I don't continue to ask for links over and over again for your information.

jmo

[LadyFuzz]

I sure wish the DA would go the prelim route but I understand why he would go the Grand Jury route with this case.

I do too. Prosecutors will do that with a weaker case. Especially because they won't have to be going to a preliminary hearing where the defense is present and can tear at the evidence. In a Grand Jury only the prosecutors evidence is presented with no defense present. Plus it is secretive and the prosecutors case is not revealed to the defense. The prosecutor's only have to produce probable cause and not beyond a reasonable doubt evidence.

imo

[warhorse46]

I do too. Prosecutors will do that with a weaker case. Especially because they won't have to be going to a preliminary hearing where the defense is present and can tear at the evidence. In a Grand Jury only the prosecutors evidence is presented with no defense present. Plus it is secretive and the prosecutors case is not revealed to the defense. The prosecutors only have to produce probable case.

imoe


In my state Grand Jury is the route the DA has, we have no prelim hearings like in other states. I wish we did. IMO it is another tool to insure the state has the strongest case possible to convict a defendant. We do have probable cause hearings but they are about 5 minutes long, the defense doesn't get to present any evidence & they are held @ the magistrate level.

[LadyFuzz]

In my state Grand Jury is the route the DA has, we have no prelim hearings like in other states. I wish we did. IMO it is another tool to insure the state has the strongest case possible to convict a defendant. We do have probable cause hearings but they are about 5 minutes long, the defense doesn't get to present any evidence & they are held @ the magistrate level.

I don't see how a Grand Jury can insure the strongest case possible since the case in chief is not presented there. Only probable cause to arrest is decided there.

How does the Grand Jury operate in your state? I can't believe there is still a state with only a Grand Jury.

It sounds to me like the hearing in front of the magistrate is the arraignment. That is done after the defendant is arrested.

Are you saying a prosecutor can't get a warrant for arrest in front of a judge by direct filing in your state? If he does that there has to be a preliminary hearing.

What is your state?


JMO

[Unperson1984]

Hi everyone,

In the Smith case an overdose of prescription meds killed ANS. Is it possible the tox report shows any other drugs taken by MJ to be within normal levels? If so -- can other doctors even be charged with contributing to MJ's death or perhaps it could be a separate case for overprescribing drugs and them using aliases and the willingness of the pharmacies to fill those prescriptions?

Seems everything reported thus far about drugs possibly being abused by MJ go back to the 2002-2003 time frame.

I am actually quite surprised that the charges against Dr Murray are being brought so soon if it does happen.

The doctors charged in the Smith case aren't charged with causing her death, they're charged with prescribing to an addict, writing script in a false name or obtaining controlled drugs in a false name. No doubt the same charges could be brought against some of MJ's doctors.

[Unperson1984]

I don't think it's necessary to pull the race card into this case.

It's a relevant issue if Murray is the only doctor held accountable. Remember this is a diverse jury pool in LA, the same jury pool that acquitted OJ.

[Firehead11]

It's a relevant issue if Murray is the only doctor held accountable. Remember this is a diverse jury pool in LA, the same jury pool that acquitted OJ.


I have to agree with Shells. I believe there will come a time when other doctors will be charged for prescribing drugs to an addict as the did in the Smith case.

I do not know how anyone else but Murray can be held accountable for Jackson's death at this point.

[Shells2]

It's a relevant issue if Murray is the only doctor held accountable. Remember this is a diverse jury pool in LA, the same jury pool that acquitted OJ.

Considering that Dr. Murray was the doctor "on duty" with MJ when MJ had too much medication flowing through his body, no skin color is not relevant. At all.

If Dr. Murray were white, would you be saying " I sure hope that they charge some Black doctors too!" ????

I didn't think so.

[MK~ULTRA]

Considering that Dr. Murray was the doctor "on duty" with MJ when MJ had too much medication flowing through his body, no skin color is not relevant. At all.

If Dr. Murray were white, would you be saying " I sure hope that they charge some Black doctors too!" ????

I didn't think so.

In other words, if the doctor was white would the poster be saying "Politically speaking I hope the only caucasian doctor involved isn't the only doctor charged?"

I agree with you Shells. Race in this case is not an issue and it should not be an issue.

Can anyone here explain why Dr. Murray being an African-American should be an issue?

And... can anyone here explain why there would be any 'politically speaking' in this case?

[Unperson1984]

Considering that Dr. Murray was the doctor "on duty" with MJ when MJ had too much medication flowing through his body, no skin color is not relevant. At all.

If Dr. Murray were white, would you be saying " I sure hope that they charge some Black doctors too!" ????

I didn't think so.

Nor did I imply that.

As I posted above, there are doctors involved with MJ who can be charged under the same violations as the doctors in the Smith case although they bear no direct responsibility for MJ's death.

[MK~ULTRA]

How about 2 separate issues ... the cause of death issue is one, the prescribing of drugs to an addict is the other?

Its just like you to bring logic to the discussion. :)

[Unperson1984]

How about 2 separate issues ... the cause of death issue is one, the prescribing of drugs to an addict is the other?

Absolutely, but other doctors were responsible for prescribing controlled drugs to an addict, and writing script under a false identity.

[MK~ULTRA]

Absolutely, but other doctors were responsible for prescribing controlled drugs to an addict, and writing script under a false identity.

And to paraphrase the immortal words of Michael Jackson... it don't matter if they're black or white.

[Shells2]

Nor did I imply that.

As I posted above, there are doctors involved with MJ who can be charged under the same violations as the doctors in the Smith case although they bear no direct responsibility for MJ's death.


But you did imply that.. when you stated :

I hope the only African-American doctor involved isn't the only doctor charged

Why not say, I hope that Dr. Conrad is not the only doctor that is charged in this issue? His race means nothing in this case. His behavior and his credentials do.

[Firehead11]

Please everyone, don't make it a race issue because it is not. If Murray was green and Jackson was purple, it would still come down to the fact that the doctor administered drugs that killed Jackson.

And I disagree about the you-tube statement. It was self serving. IMO.

[Shells2]

Right -- that's my point. Perhaps the other doctors are under investigation and separate charges will be brought against them, unrelated to the death.

(For the record, in case I seem a bit lost, I'm not referencing the race question at all -- just the fact LE seems to be ready to charge Murray, based imo, on the relatively cut and dried nature of that situation. If separate charges are coming at some point against other MJ drug docs, that's probably a much more complex situation, just based on how long it took to bring charges against Stern and ANS's doctors.)

Hope I'm making sense. :huh:


ITA with that..

I'm wondering/hoping if this will change the way celebs and the wealthy have such easy access to prescription meds.

I also wonder where the line of personal responsibility will be drawn in this. IE - Michael's, and in the other case, Anna Nicole Smith, own responsibility.

[Unperson1984]

But you did imply that.. when you stated :

I hope the only African-American doctor involved isn't the only doctor charged

Why not say, I hope that Dr. Conrad is not the only doctor that is charged in this issue? His race means nothing in this case. His behavior and his credentials do.

Firehead and I were discussing the fact that doctors were charged for violations other than being responsible for the death in the Smith case. I simply pointed out that if the Jackson case isn't given the same attention, and the only one charged with a crime is the only African-American doctor involved, it would be politically unwise.

With an ambitious Attorney General and an Ambitious District Attorney, it would be naive to think that political considerations won't impact the decision on who to charge in this case.

I've spent most of my professional life working in Law and Politics and my thoughts always factor in those considerations.

[LadyFuzz]

Firehead and I were discussing the fact that doctors were charged for violations other than being responsible for the death in the Smith case. I simply pointed out that if the Jackson case isn't given the same attention, and the only one charged with a crime is the only African-American doctor involved, it would be politically unwise.

With an ambitious Attorney General and an Ambitious District Attorney, it would be naive to think that political considerations won't impact the decision on who to charge in this case.

I've spent most of my professional life working in Law and Politics and my thoughts always factor in those considerations.

It could factor in if the jury is mostly made up of blacks as in the OJ trial.

Dr Murray is a striking figure and it has been said he would make an excellent witness in his own defense.

Jackson being black won't figure in near as much and neither will his celebrity as he is now deceased and he sure looked like he was trying to look white.

If it were me I would try for as many black females on that jury as I could get. I would also try for as many females as I could get period.:wink:

JMO

[Firehead11]

It could factor in if the jury is mostly made up of blacks as in the OJ trial.

Dr Murray is a striking figure and it has been said he would make an excellent witness in his own defense.

Jackson being black won't figure in near as much and neither will his celebrity as he is now deceased and he sure looked like he was trying to look white.

JMO


No matter how many times it is stated about his skin, "he sure tried to look white". :rolleyes:

I think a jury can look past "that striking figure" and judge the man for what his actions or lack of actions were in regarding Jackson death.

[LadyFuzz]

I was just thinking about this earlier as well. On the one hand, I think maybe Jerry Brown is on the right track. It IS California, after all, where so many rich-and-famous live, and it would seem the combination of the entertainment industry, celebrity, and money makes this group highly susceptible to drug use/abuse. And because of the "culture of celebrity" there is also a segment of the population ready, willing and able to enable the drug use/abuse. My point is, this particular brand of demand and supply could be somewhat peculiar to California (and perhaps New York), and as such, it makes sense Brown is trying to get something done about it. So from that standpoint, it makes a sense to me.

On the flip side is the personal responsibility thing, and I'm a huge proponent of not letting any adult off the hook for being responsible for his or her own choices and behavior.

I obviously haven't thought the whole thing through yet. I definitely think the use of pseudonyms for celebrity prescriptions should be outlawed. If the problem is media intrusion into the personal business of celebs, then go after the media. But I think the pseudonym game opens the door wider than it already is for all kinds of abuse. That was certainly the case with MJ.

It is illegal now for everyone to use different names. There are no exceptions in the law for celebrities to use aliases for privacy. imo

[Unperson1984]

It could factor in if the jury is mostly made up of blacks as in the OJ trial.

Dr Murray is a striking figure and it has been said he would make an excellent witness in his own defense.

Jackson being black won't figure in near as much and neither will his celebrity as he is now deceased and he sure looked like he was trying to look white.

If it were me I would try for as many black females on that jury as I could get. I would also try for as many females as I could get period.:wink:

JMO

I think MJ's celebrity is a huge factor, would Cooley be thinking of filing criminal charges if you or I who had died of an overdose after years of addiction...I don't think so. The same can be said of Brown charging Stern and the doctors in the Smith case.

Winning high profile cases can make or break political dreams, just ask Gil Garcetti.


:wink:

[LadyFuzz]

I think MJ's celebrity is a huge factor, would Cooley be thinking of filing criminal charges if you or I who had died of an overdose after years of addiction...I don't think so. The same can be said of Brown charging Stern and the doctors in the Smith case.

Winning high profile cases can make or break political dreams, just ask Gil Garcetti.


:wink:

Of course in that regard, but the jury is a different matter. Those ladies may tend to swoon over Dr Murray. I'd be going for the black females on that jury. :wink:

The only reason there would be charges is because it's Jackson.

jmo

[LadyFuzz]

Why swoon over a man who has multiple children, with multiple mothers, all of whom he owes child support? Men like that are a dime a dozen.

I don't think the filing of charges will have anything to do with it being Michael Jackson. They could and should file charges whenever a person is injected full of lethal drugs by another person.

imo.

Oh, you mean the person who begged for those drugs and was going to get them any way he could? imo

Swoon is right. Why do you think he has multiple women?

jmo

[warhorse46]

I don't see how a Grand Jury can insure the strongest case possible since the case in chief is not presented there. Only probable cause to arrest is decided there.

How does the Grand Jury operate in your state? I can't believe there is still a state with only a Grand Jury.

It sounds to me like the hearing in front of the magistrate is the arraignment. That is done after the defendant is arrested.

Are you saying a prosecutor can't get a warrant for arrest in front of a judge by direct filing in your state? If he does that there has to be a preliminary hearing.

What is your state?


JMO


The purpose of an arraignment here is to afix the accused's identy & hear his plea. It cannot be held until 2 full days after the accused has been served with the indictment. We have a Court Of Inquiry which is sort of like a prelim but not quite the same & not used very much.
Pay special attention to chapters 20, 26 & 27.
http://law.justia.com/texas/codes/cr.html

[sallemae]

Of course in that regard, but the jury is a different matter. Those ladies may tend to swoon over Dr Murray. I'd be going for the black females on that jury. :wink:

The only reason there would be charges is because it's Jackson.

jmo

I choked after reading the ..."swoon over Dr Murray"....:thumbdown:

[flipflop]

Arrest Warrant Sought for Dr. Conrad Murray

Posted Oct 8th 2009 8:03AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson doc Conrad Murray bailed on a very important date -- and now a Family Law court wants a bench warrant for his arrest and possibly the suspension of his medical license.

Murray failed to show up to a scheduled child support hearing yesterday -- he allegedly owes more than $13,000 to baby mama Nenita Malibiran, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

The bench warrant would have to be signed by district judge before it can be enforced.

The D.A.'s office says they'll also ask for Murray's medical license to be suspended -- as of now, he can still practice medicine.

As TMZ previously reported, the investigation into MJ's death should wrap up next week -- and Murray is still the sole target.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0TLZGTr0h

[GentleBreeze]

No matter how many times it is stated about his skin, "he sure tried to look white". :rolleyes:

I think a jury can look past "that striking figure" and judge the man for what his actions or lack of actions were in regarding Jackson death.

So someone is saying the jury will not do their jobs that they are sworn to do because the defendant may happened to be "striking" (not to me)? Hmmm I wonder what happened in all those other cases when the defendant was "striking" but yet they were found guilty?

I would think in LA Michael has many fans and honestly I cant understand for the life of me what Michael's skin color has to do with a trial against Murray, if it is held. Wasn't it said that the ME who did the autopsy said MJ had a skin disorder?

Surely a jury will keep their concentration on the evidence presented at trial against Murray. If they have been prejudiced by the tabloid rag mags then they shouldn't be sitting jurors anyway.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hHa_UvpwRAzTZhIyWVKZSP3yGaigD9B2DU4G1

The coroner found depigmentation of his skin around his chest, abdomen, face and arms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depigmentation

The definition of depigmentation is the lightening of the skin, or loss of pigment. Depigmentation of the skin can be caused by a number of local and systemic conditions. The pigment loss can be partial (injury to the skin) or complete (caused by vitiligo). It can be temporary (from tinea versicolor) or permanent (from albinism).

Most commonly, depigmentation of the skin is linked to people who suffer with vitiligo. These individuals, if they so decided to complete the lightening process, would apply a topical cream containing the organic compound monobenzone to remove the remaining pigment. The brand drug incorporating 20% monobenzone is Benoquin, made by ICN.

[LadyFuzz]

Arrest Warrant Sought for Dr. Conrad Murray

Posted Oct 8th 2009 8:03AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson doc Conrad Murray bailed on a very important date -- and now a Family Law court wants a bench warrant for his arrest and possibly the suspension of his medical license.

Murray failed to show up to a scheduled child support hearing yesterday -- he allegedly owes more than $13,000 to baby mama Nenita Malibiran, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

The bench warrant would have to be signed by district judge before it can be enforced.

The D.A.'s office says they'll also ask for Murray's medical license to be suspended -- as of now, he can still practice medicine.

As TMZ previously reported, the investigation into MJ's death should wrap up next week -- and Murray is still the sole target.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0TLZGTr0h

bolding mine

I wonder who the source of this information is. Why would the DA's office even be involved in this?

[LadyFuzz]

So someone is saying the jury will not do their jobs that they are sworn to do because the defendant may happened to be "striking" (not to me)? Hmmm I wonder what happened in all those other cases when the defendant was "striking" but yet they were found guilty?

I would think in LA Michael has many fans and honestly I cant understand for the life of me what Michael's skin color has to do with a trial against Murray, if it is held. Wasn't it said that the ME who did the autopsy said MJ had a skin disorder?

Surely a jury will keep their concentration on the evidence presented at trial against Murray. If they have been prejudiced by the tabloid rag mags then they shouldn't be sitting jurors anyway.

imo

What happeed in the OJ case? Jury nulification?

[LadyFuzz]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hHa_UvpwRAzTZhIyWVKZSP3yGaigD9B2DU4G1

The coroner found depigmentation of his skin around his chest, abdomen, face and arms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depigmentation

The definition of depigmentation is the lightening of the skin, or loss of pigment. Depigmentation of the skin can be caused by a number of local and systemic conditions. The pigment loss can be partial (injury to the skin) or complete (caused by vitiligo). It can be temporary (from tinea versicolor) or permanent (from albinism).

Most commonly, depigmentation of the skin is linked to people who suffer with vitiligo. These individuals, if they so decided to complete the lightening process, would apply a topical cream containing the organic compound monobenzone to remove the remaining pigment. The brand drug incorporating 20% monobenzone is Benoquin, made by ICN.

Did the coroner say it was in fact vitilago or a skin disorder? Depigmetation of the skin can be caused by bleaching the skin also.

jmo

[LadyFuzz]

If Jackson had a skin disorder, why wouldn't the coroner name what the skin disorder was? Why wouldn't there be signs of the disorder all over his body?:confused:

IIRC Jordy Chandler said there was depigmentation on Jackson's genitals and the police had pictures from the search warrant. Could Jackson have bleached that area also??? Yikes!!

Maybe he stopped bleaching there after the pictures were taken since the coroner didn't mention that.

JMO

[Firehead11]

Oh, you mean the person who begged for those drugs and was going to get them any way he could? imo

Snipped
jmo


Like Anna Nicole Smith also did?
But yet 3 people have been charged. Not for her accidental death but for obtaining drugs for an addict.

[Firehead11]

If Jackson had a skin disorder, why wouldn't the coroner name what the skin disorder was? Why wouldn't there be signs of the disorder all over his body?:confused:

We haven't had access to the entire autopsy report either.

[GentleBreeze]

snipped.......If Jackson had a skin disorder, why wouldn't the coroner name what the skin disorder was? Why wouldn't there be signs of the disorder all over his body?:confused:

JMO

No there wouldnt be.

As far as I am aware the autopsy has not been released for public consumption and only general remarks have been made by those who say they have seen the report. For all we know the Coronor may have listed it.

There are five main types of vitiligo, which are based upon the location of the white patches and the pattern of involvement: focal, generalized, acrofacial, segmental and universal.

Focal vitiligo: minimal involvement with only one or a very few white patches scattered on the skin
Generalized vitiligo: the most common type with symmetrical patches on any location on the skin including the trunk and/or extremities
Acrofacial vitiligo: white patches limited to the fingers and around the mouth and eyes
Segmental vitiligo: white patches on one side of the body and in a linear or line-like distribution (dermatome)
Universal vitiligo: Widespread patches involving all over the body.

imo

[LadyFuzz]

Like Anna Nicole Smith also did?
But yet 3 people have been charged. Not for her accidental death but for obtaining drugs for an addict.

Did she? Looks like she didn't even have to ask. There is a difference between controlled substances and non controlled substances. JMO

[LadyFuzz]

No there wouldnt be.

As far as I am aware the autopsy has not been released for public consumption and only general remarks have been made by those who say they have seen the report. For all we know the Coronor may have listed it.

There are five main types of vitiligo, which are based upon the location of the white patches and the pattern of involvement: focal, generalized, acrofacial, segmental and universal.

Focal vitiligo: minimal involvement with only one or a very few white patches scattered on the skin
Generalized vitiligo: the most common type with symmetrical patches on any location on the skin including the trunk and/or extremities
Acrofacial vitiligo: white patches limited to the fingers and around the mouth and eyes
Segmental vitiligo: white patches on one side of the body and in a linear or line-like distribution (dermatome)
Universal vitiligo: Widespread patches involving all over the body.

imo

Well, like some of us have been saying all along, the autopsy report hasn't been released, so whatever that dipigmentation is, if it exists, we don't know, do we?

It could be from bleaching which is one you left out.

Again we are back to rumor and speculation.

JMO

[LadyFuzz]

We haven't had access to the entire autopsy report either.

We haven't had access to the autopsy report period. What we know is rumor and speculation period. Some of us have been saying that all along. Others say that only when it is convenient.

JMO

[Firehead11]

Did she? Looks like she didn't even have to ask. There is a difference between controlled substances and non controlled substances. JMO


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/MichaelJackson/story?id=8302959&page=1

According to law enforcement officials familiar with the investigation, the warrant was issued "for items of interest in a criminal investigation" because evidence already obtained allegedly suggests that Murray obtained both regulated and unregulated drugs from Applied Pharmacy Services, 6370 West Flamingo #1, Las Vegas.


http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/orangebook/c_cs_alpha.pdf
http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=10982769
-- About 1:30 a.m., Murray gave Jackson 10 mg of Valium. (controlled)

-- About 2 a.m., he injected Jackson with 2 mg of the anti-anxiety drug Ativan. (controlled)
-- About 3 a.m., Murray then administered 2 mg of the sedative Versed.

(controlled)
-- About 5 a.m., he administered another 2 mg of Ativan.

-- About 7:30 a.m., Murray gave Jackson yet another 2 mg of Versed while monitoring him with a device that measured the oxygen saturation of his blood.

-- About 10:40 a.m., "after repeated demands/requests from Jackson," Murray administered 25 mg of propofol, the document said.

Want to tell me again about the big difference between controlled and not controlled drugs? The only drugs that isn't on the control list is the propofol. Go figure.

[tiptop]

Australian TV show apologizes for blackface skit:

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=435513&GT1=28103

[warhorse46]

Arrest Warrant Sought for Dr. Conrad Murray

Posted Oct 8th 2009 8:03AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson doc Conrad Murray bailed on a very important date -- and now a Family Law court wants a bench warrant for his arrest and possibly the suspension of his medical license.

Murray failed to show up to a scheduled child support hearing yesterday -- he allegedly owes more than $13,000 to baby mama Nenita Malibiran, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

The bench warrant would have to be signed by district judge before it can be enforced.

The D.A.'s office says they'll also ask for Murray's medical license to be suspended -- as of now, he can still practice medicine.

As TMZ previously reported, the investigation into MJ's death should wrap up next week -- and Murray is still the sole target.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0TLZGTr0h


I think it is rather stupid to ask for his medical license to be suspended re this case. First of all doing that would stop any chance he could work to make the money to pay the back child support. And being in arrears in child support is not in any way connected to his medical practice.

[Poochie Pie]

Arrest Warrant Sought for Dr. Conrad Murray

Posted Oct 8th 2009 8:03AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson doc Conrad Murray bailed on a very important date -- and now a Family Law court wants a bench warrant for his arrest and possibly the suspension of his medical license.

Murray failed to show up to a scheduled child support hearing yesterday -- he allegedly owes more than $13,000 to baby mama Nenita Malibiran, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal.

The bench warrant would have to be signed by district judge before it can be enforced.

The D.A.'s office says they'll also ask for Murray's medical license to be suspended -- as of now, he can still practice medicine.

As TMZ previously reported, the investigation into MJ's death should wrap up next week -- and Murray is still the sole target.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0TLZGTr0h Thanks for the Link flipflop... You know, I just have NO respect for a man who does not support his Children...!! Especially when he has a lucrative career, and is living in a mansion fit for a King.. It just absolutely amazes me that being a Medical Doctor, he apparently knows very little about birth control... Either that, or he just doesn't care.. I am not only disgusted with him as a "Doctor", but as a human being as well.. IMO

Poochie

[Poochie Pie]

I think it is rather stupid to ask for his medical license to be suspended re this case. First of all doing that would stop any chance he could work to make the money to pay the back child support. And being in arrears in child support is not in any way connected to his medical practice. Agree about his medical license, warhorse... Suspending it will do nothing to ensure that his children are supported... But, on the other hand... as more personal info surfaces re the Doctor, I'm wondering how long he will actually HAVE all of those patients....

Poochie

[MK~ULTRA]

Jackson Blackface 'Tribute' Flops - CNN Video (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2009/10/08/adama.aus.tv.show.blackface.ninenet)

Unbelievable that this type of 'entertainment' still exists. :thumbdown:

[LadyFuzz]

The coroner did menbtion vitilligo in the report. Jordy wasn't shown MJ's genitals, not by MJ anyway.

What report? The autopsy report has not been released. Remember?

Jordy did see MJ genitals according to the police. He described them and the subsequent search warrant revealed this to be true. I will not discuss
that any further.

JMO

[LadyFuzz]

They already have too many homicides. They don't want another one at the hands of Murray. He shouldn't be allowed to treat even a goat, much less a person.

imo.

THE POINT IS the DA has no jurisdiction with the medical board. I've never heard of a DA's office filing a complaint with a medical board. I think that is another rumor and it was from a well placed source. Another words, no named source.

Criminal charges and medical board complaints are two separate things.

JMO

[Roxxanne]

THE POINT IS the DA has no jurisdiction with the medical board. I've never heard of a DA's office filing a complaint with a medical board. I think that is another rumor and it was from a well placed source. Another words, no named source.

Criminal charges and medical board complaints are two separate things.

JMO

This link names a source.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b148044_finally_conrad_murray_thisclose_arrest.htm l

[LadyFuzz]

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/MichaelJackson/story?id=8302959&page=1

According to law enforcement officials familiar with the investigation, the warrant was issued "for items of interest in a criminal investigation" because evidence already obtained allegedly suggests that Murray obtained both regulated and unregulated drugs from Applied Pharmacy Services, 6370 West Flamingo #1, Las Vegas.


http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/schedules/orangebook/c_cs_alpha.pdf
http://www.woio.com/Global/story.asp?S=10982769
-- About 1:30 a.m., Murray gave Jackson 10 mg of Valium. (controlled)

-- About 2 a.m., he injected Jackson with 2 mg of the anti-anxiety drug Ativan. (controlled)
-- About 3 a.m., Murray then administered 2 mg of the sedative Versed.

(controlled)
-- About 5 a.m., he administered another 2 mg of Ativan.

-- About 7:30 a.m., Murray gave Jackson yet another 2 mg of Versed while monitoring him with a device that measured the oxygen saturation of his blood.

-- About 10:40 a.m., "after repeated demands/requests from Jackson," Murray administered 25 mg of propofol, the document said.

Want to tell me again about the big difference between controlled and not controlled drugs? The only drugs that isn't on the control list is the propofol. Go figure.

top bolding mine

I was talking about Diprivan. You have yet another unnamed source that Murray obtained both controlled and non controlled drugs. JMO

[LadyFuzz]

This link names a source.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b148044_finally_conrad_murray_thisclose_arrest.htm l

snipped

Not that that's the only potential punishment the office has in store for Murray. Driver said they also plan to recommend to the Nevada medical board that his license be suspended.



So it is the Nevada Medical Board and it has to do with child support. That's different. It's not the DA asking the medical board to suspend his license in the Jackson criminal case.

This has nothing to do with the Jackson case.

IMO

[daniel green]

So, nothing new?

[LadyFuzz]

So, nothing new?

No, nothing.:wink:

[LadyFuzz]

I think it is rather stupid to ask for his medical license to be suspended re this case. First of all doing that would stop any chance he could work to make the money to pay the back child support. And being in arrears in child support is not in any way connected to his medical practice.

This is in Nevada. He can still practice in Texas even if the board does suspend his license over child support. imo

[LadyFuzz]

Jackson Blackface 'Tribute' Flops - CNN Video (http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/showbiz/2009/10/08/adama.aus.tv.show.blackface.ninenet)

Unbelievable that this type of 'entertainment' still exists. :thumbdown:

This happened in Australia and therefore none of our business. Besides they were (5) while doctors. What were they suppose to do to look black?

One was wearing white face anyway. I guess only blacks can parody the Jackson 5 and one of them would be allowed to wear white face I bet.

This is a bunch of ado about nothing and off topic to boot.

JMO

[Firehead11]

This happened in Australia and therefore none of our business. Besides they were (5) while doctors. What were they suppose to do to look black?

One was wearing white face anyway. I guess only blacks can parody the Jackson 5 and one of them would be allowed to wear white face I bet.

This is a bunch of ado about nothing and off topic to boot.

JMO

I think the thread is titled: Michael Jackson Discussion and therefore a post involving his name would be on topic.

I really believe that Coldwater, after doing this moderating job for so many years, does know what posts would be on topic and off.

The article made the news because Harry Connick Junior (am American) didn't appreciate the act that involved racism. And racism is not just an American problem.

Blackface was a traditional trope of minstrel shows in the U.S. that dates to the 19th century. Whites playing stock black characters — usually offensive stereotypes meant to demean — rubbed coal, grease or shoe polish on their faces. Blackface performances are not common in Australia.
Public reaction to the "Hey Hey" performance in online forums was mixed. Some Australians said they were embarrassed such a racist sketch had been broadcast, while others said detractors were too politically correct and that the skit was funny.

[Rayosunshine]

Why so snarky? I didn't see that information and what difference does ita make that is was shipped from Nevada to the girlfriend's house in CA?

I don't think anyone gets it about Diprivan not being a controlled substance. It can be bought and shipped can't it????

Besides, it was bought in CA at a pharmacy by Murray, wasn't it?????

I don't continue to ask for links over and over again for your information.

jmo

Yes, LadyFuzz, you are right, Diprivan is not a controlled substance. Dr. Murray could order truckloads of the stuff and not break any law. However, the one really bad thing Dr. Murray did do is, he breached standards of care, and that could be worse than criminal charges, since he may never practice medicine again when the medical board is finished with him. At least in a jail cell, he would have a bed to sleep in and three meals a day, plus all the medical care he could ever hope for, but out on the streets it will be a different story. Dr. Murray will be dropped down several rungs on the ladder of society. Ouch! I hope it hurts him really bad.

[LadyFuzz]

Yes, LadyFuzz, you are right, Diprivan is not a controlled substance. Dr. Murray could order truckloads of the stuff and not break any law. However, the one really bad thing Dr. Murray did do is, he breached standards of care, and that could be worse than criminal charges, since he may never practice medicine again when the medical board is finished with him. At least in a jail cell, he would have a bed to sleep in and three meals a day, plus all the medical care he could ever hope for, but out on the streets it will be a different story. Dr. Murray will be dropped down several rungs on the ladder of society. Ouch! I hope it hurts him really bad.

If the medical board does anythinyg. Drugs can be used off label and Diprivan can be given in a home setting and the proper medical equipment could have been there.

There is also the consideration that Jackson wasn't an innocent victim in all of this.

imo

[LadyFuzz]

I think the thread is titled: Michael Jackson Discussion and therefore a post involving his name would be on topic.

I really believe that Coldwater, after doing this moderating job for so many years, does know what posts would be on topic and off.

The article made the news because Harry Connick Junior (am American) didn't appreciate the act that involved racism. And racism is not just an American problem.

Blackface was a traditional trope of minstrel shows in the U.S. that dates to the 19th century. Whites playing stock black characters — usually offensive stereotypes meant to demean — rubbed coal, grease or shoe polish on their faces. Blackface performances are not common in Australia.
Public reaction to the "Hey Hey" performance in online forums was mixed. Some Australians said they were embarrassed such a racist sketch had been broadcast, while others said detractors were too politically correct and that the skit was funny.

I don't believe there was any intent by the group to be racist. jmo

[Firehead11]

If the medical board does anythinyg. Drugs can be used off label and Diprivan can be given in a home setting and the proper medical equipment could have been there.

There is also the consideration that Jackson wasn't an innocent victim in all of this.
imo


I am getting really tired of posting the same thing every time you post the bolded statement.

For the last time, we ALL know that Jackson at one time admitted he was a prescription drug addict. We ALL know that according to Lee, Jackson was asking for this UNCONTROLLED drug.According to an LF offical Murray admitted to give drugs, controlled and uncontrolled drugs tp Jackson. Jackson may have asked for this drug, he did not ask to be given enough of these drugs to die.

Aren't you tired of hearing this? Jackson paid his price, time for Murray to pay his.

Medical board may not do anything in three states, however, "feel good" Jerry Brown will.

[Unperson1984]

Hi Unp.....

I think I worded my post poorly -- it was actually meant to be a question Thanks and sorry for the misunderstanding and ITA with your response as this is what my post was supposed to be asking. I also believe it may be a separate case as the DEA would most likely be involved in that and those are federal charges if I am not mistaken. Did the state bring the charges against Stern and the Dr or did the Feds? Haven't been really following the case other than I know they were charged. :)

They were charged by the State. I am hoping doctors in the Jackson case will be similarly charged.

[Unperson1984]

OK thanks -- thought they would have been federal charges since DEA was involved.

They definitely should charge the other doctors Unp... and their names should be plastered on the front page news too and not because it was MJ but because maybe it would be a deterrent to Doctors who do knowingly over-prescribe to anyone whether celebrity or average Jane/John Doe. I also hope the pharmacies involved are held accountable as from what I recall reading some filled the prescriptions via telephone (which is a no-no with controlled substances) and some prescriptions had NO names at all. This cannot be just a "slap on the wrist" or it will never cease. This is becoming an epidemic in this country especially with the elderly. :( JMO

Also want to let you know that I truly value your opinion.

I truly believe that publicly prosecuting the prescribing doctors is the only way to curtail the prescription drug abuse problem.

[LadyFuzz]

I am getting really tired of posting the same thing every time you post the bolded statement.

For the last time, we ALL know that Jackson at one time admitted he was a prescription drug addict. We ALL know that according to Lee, Jackson was asking for this UNCONTROLLED drug.According to an LF offical Murray admitted to give drugs, controlled and uncontrolled drugs tp Jackson. Jackson may have asked for this drug, he did not ask to be given enough of these drugs to die.

Aren't you tired of hearing this? Jackson paid his price, time for Murray to pay his.

Medical board may not do anything in three states, however, "feel good" Jerry Brown will.

And I'm getting tired of having to post the same answers over and over again when posters post the same things over and over again about the search warrant.

I'll post what I want the same as everyone else does. If you don't like it just skip right over my posts. No one is saying you have to answer anyway.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I am getting really tired of posting the same thing every time you post the bolded statement.

For the last time, we ALL know that Jackson at one time admitted he was a prescription drug addict. We ALL know that according to Lee, Jackson was asking for this UNCONTROLLED drug.According to an LF official Murray admitted to give drugs, controlled and uncontrolled drugs tp Jackson. Jackson may have asked for this drug, he did not ask to be given enough of these drugs to die.

Aren't you tired of hearing this? Jackson paid his price, time for Murray to pay his.

Medical board may not do anything in three states, however, "feel good" Jerry Brown will.

I am just glad that the ones who really count don't have the same mindset as some others do. AG Brown considers people like Anna and Michael vulnerable victims of these high priced doctors who funnel drugs to them.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

IMO racism is a global issue and kudos to Harry Connick Jr. Liked him anyway -- now the respect goes further for me.

Absolutely.

I am so proud that he stood up for what is right.

If that had happened in this country in today's time all hell would have broken loose. It is racist and demeaning to black people.

imo

[daniel green]

I truly believe that publicly prosecuting the prescribing doctors is the only way to curtail the prescription drug abuse problem.

It might help it, but not curtail it, to be sure.

The only way to deal with addiction is to provide free access to good, intreatment health facilities for long-term addiction, mental health and family counseling, then sober living.

If it were to curtail Rx drug addiction/abuse, then the role model of our war on drugs should have worked. And it has been a dismal failure.

[daniel green]

Dr. Murray is not African American. He was born in Grenada, not in America.

snipped.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but Granada is, in fact, in the Americas.

[ResJudicata]

Michael was definitely murdered. No doubt about it, the Coroner has confirmed it.
Murray needs to show some remorse and apologize to the Jackson family before a jury is selected. Damage control. He might receive a lighter sentence.


He's probably only sorry he lost all the big money.

[ResJudicata]

I disagree completely with the murder conclusion and have huge doubts about it. I think MJ was doing his own drugs while the Doc was trying to help him. In any event, sometimes an apology is not enough. Still waiting for the Doc to be charged, arrested and found quilty at a jury trial before sentencing. Its how we do it in America and that thing of Innocent Until PROVEN Quilty.

Thats not how we did it in America when MJ was arrested and charged with a crime.

[ResJudicata]

Michael did not take the Hipocratic oath. He was murdered by a so called doctor who practiced medicine in a bedroon instead of a hospital. Illegal and immoral.
Innocent until proven is usually the way, unless a criminal is obviously guilty as would be the case of Murray.


I believe Murray had lost priveledges at the only hospital he was allowed to practice in. So .. the bedroom was the only other alternative. That constitutional protection re: Innocent until proven guilty will apply only after he is charged with a crime. I agree he sure does appear guilty.

[Firehead11]

I disagree completely with the murder conclusion and have huge doubts about it. I think MJ was doing his own drugs while the Doc was trying to help him. In any event, sometimes an apology is not enough. Still waiting for the Doc to be charged, arrested and found quilty at a jury trial before sentencing. Its how we do it in America and that thing of Innocent Until PROVEN Quilty.

Normally I would agree with you regarding Innocent until PROVEN guilty but somehow this doesn't apply to anything Jackson. He had a trial, was found not guilty and was still persecuted even after death because some believe what Sneddon pushed.

I also believe that the coroner would know a hell of a lot more than we do, so I will believe his findings. Jackson's death was/is a homicide case.

[Firehead11]

Dr. Klein Draws Huge Crowds ... With Booze
Posted Oct 9th 2009 12:45AM by TMZ Staff

We're guessing it wasn't the horribly tacky Windows 95 poster that enticed people to Arnie Klein's lecture last Saturday -- it was probably the free food and open bar, courtesy of Klein's fat wallet ... but that's just us.



We've learned Klein was in Phoenix last Saturday for a dermatologist convention at the Marriott Desert Ridge Resort Hotel. When it was all over, the good doctor held his very own lecture on Michael Jackson called "Heal the Skin" ... luring crowds with free Italian food and an open bar -- and we're told he paid for all of it.

We spoke to a rep for the hotel's restaurant -- where Klein hosted his talk -- and we're told he rented out a private dining room just for the occasion ... racking up a bill of at least $6,000. And that didn't even include the bar tab.

He claims on Twitter he talked about real problems with the FDA and Drug Companies ... but we're guessing people didn't hear much over the sound of mouths munching.


More Arnie Klein

Arnie Klein Shut Down in Jackson Court

Michael Jackson Doc Sues

Cops Descene on Dr. Klein's Block






Tags: arnie klein, ArnieKlein, arnold klein, ArnoldKlein, mariott desert ridge resort hotel, MariottDesertRidgeResortHotel, marriott, michael jackson, MichaelJackson, twitter



Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/09/dr-klein-draws-huge-crowds-with-booze/#ixzz0TQwIbX5s





What a work of art. I hope that the executors can do something about this creep using the Jackson name for his benefit.

[GentleBreeze]

I disagree completely with the murder conclusion and have huge doubts about it. I think MJ was doing his own drugs while the Doc was trying to help him. In any event, sometimes an apology is not enough. Still waiting for the Doc to be charged, arrested and found guilty at a jury trial before sentencing. Its how we do it in America and that thing of Innocent Until PROVEN Quilty.

I believe there would be evidence of that in the autopsy and as of now there isn't. The only drugs mentioned where the ones that Murray said he gave him.

I don't know why IUPG will apply here.:confused: It sure didn't when MJ was accused and it still didn't apply even after he was found Not Guilty in a court of law.

imo

[LadyFuzz]

Okay, I won't discuss it any further other than to say I think the police either showed Jordy the picture, or just told him what to say. Even though he couldn't describe it with accuracy.

And... it has been reported that the coroner did detect vitiligo.

Link to the coroner detecting vitillago. No unnamed soursces either.

[LadyFuzz]

I believe there would be evidence of that in the autopsy and as of now there isn't. The only drugs mentioned where the ones that Murray said he gave him.

I don't know why IUPG will apply here.:confused: It sure didn't when MJ was accused and it still didn't apply even after he was found Not Guilty in a court of law.

imo

Of course it applied with Jackson. He was found not guilty and couldn't ever be retried again.

People can continue to have opinions, but it doesn't change the verdict.

imo

[LadyFuzz]

I believe Murray had lost priveledges at the only hospital he was allowed to practice in. So .. the bedroom was the only other alternative. That constitutional protection re: Innocent until proven guilty will apply only after he is charged with a crime. I agree he sure does appear guilty.

At what hospitals did he practice and what hospitals did he lose privileges at? Do you even know why he lost privileges if he did?

jmo

[LadyFuzz]

Point taken. But, he's still a crooked, illegal, medical manipulator... Who just happened to be the last person to see Michael Jackson alive and could have prevented his death had he been a physician who abided by the law.

What law didn't he abide by?

[EvilEyeBall]

Normally I would agree with you regarding Innocent until PROVEN guilty but somehow this doesn't apply to anything Jackson. He had a trial, was found not guilty and was still persecuted even after death because some believe what Sneddon pushed.

I also believe that the coroner would know a hell of a lot more than we do, so I will believe his findings. Jackson's death was/is a homicide case.

IMO "Innocent until proven guilty" applies to jurors only.

A judge deoesn't have presume the accused is innocent, if he did...there wouldn't be bail set or denied in any case. When defendants are bound over for trial, it means there is enough to believe guilt...but the decision is left for the jury.

[EvilEyeBall]

Okay, I won't discuss it any further other than to say I think the police either showed Jordy the picture, or just told him what to say. Even though he couldn't describe it with accuracy.

And... it has been reported that the coroner did detect vitiligo.

Link that "And... it has been reported that the coroner did detect vitiligo"

[warhorse46]

I disagree completely with the murder conclusion and have huge doubts about it. I think MJ was doing his own drugs while the Doc was trying to help him. In any event, sometimes an apology is not enough. Still waiting for the Doc to be charged, arrested and found quilty at a jury trial before sentencing. Its how we do it in America and that thing of Innocent Until PROVEN Quilty.


Innocent until proven guilty (IUPG) is a legal concept that applies ONLY inside a court room to a Judge or jury, the tryers of facts. It was not designed to, never has nor ever will apply to the general public (of which posters on a message are a part). All it means is that the tryers of facts, Judge or jury, will view the defendant as innocent unless the state proves beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise. In other words it does not apply here.

[warhorse46]

IMO "Innocent until proven guilty" applies to jurors only.

A judge deoesn't have presume the accused is innocent, if he did...there wouldn't be bail set or denied in any case. When defendants are bound over for trial, it means there is enough to believe guilt...but the decision is left for the jury.



A Judge does have to presume the accused to be innocent if it is a bench trial & he is the tryer of facts.

[ResJudicata]

What law didn't he abide by?


"Thou shalt not kill."

[ResJudicata]

At what hospitals did he practice and what hospitals did he lose privileges at? Do you even know why he lost privileges if he did?

jmo


Authorities also obtained a suspension notice from a Houston hospital.

In the wake of the investigation, a slew of liens and lawsuits against Murray has emerged. In the last three years, Murray has faced lawsuits for unpaid business bills totaling over $700,000, including rent on his medical offices. He also owes more than $13,000 in child support and $70,000 to a business partner with whom he launched an energy drink called Pitbull. Plus, he failed to pay more than $71,000 worth of student loans from medical school.

Murray was also charged with domestic violence in February 1994 while undergoing a cardiology fellowship at the University of Arizona at Tucson. He stood trial in July of that year and was ultimately acquitted.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?page=1&id=8319786

[ResJudicata]

Link to the coroner detecting vitillago. No unnamed soursces either.



The singer also had depigmentation of the skin around his face, chest, abdomen and arms, corroborating reports that he suffered from vitiligo

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Michael-Jackson-Was-Healthy-When-He-Died-Autopsy-Reveals-123233.shtml

[MK~ULTRA]

The singer also had depigmentation of the skin around his face, chest, abdomen and arms, corroborating reports that he suffered from vitiligo

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Michael-Jackson-Was-Healthy-When-He-Died-Autopsy-Reveals-123233.shtml

'The Guardian informs.'

'The Guardian says.'

'The Guardian further says.'

[ResJudicata]

'The Guardian informs.'

'The Guardian says.'

'The Guardian further says.'


Were you trying to make some point?

[MK~ULTRA]

Were you trying to make some point?

Have you seen the autopsy report or are you just posting links from sites that claim they have seen the autopsy report?

[Firehead11]

Links were provided. Sorry they are not to your liking but it does follow the TOS. If you really need to make an issue about it, maybe you should contact Coldwater and ask her opinion. At least they are something that each person can read and form their own opinion on it, unlike some of the things that have been posted on here.

IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO

[MK~ULTRA]

Links were provided.

snipped

IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO

Obviously.

[who_is_it]

Dr. Klein has a twitter page on which he announced a lecture on Michael Jackson called "Heal the skin" (which already took place).

[Firehead11]

"The singer also had depigmentation of the skin around his face, chest, abdomen and arms, corroborating reports that he suffered from vitiligo."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/oct/02/michael-jackson-autopsy


I believe the point was " a name sourced". From your link:

"His overall health was fine," said Dr Zeev Kain, the University of California physician who reviewed the report for the Associated Press. "The results are in normal limits."

Jackson had scars behind his ears and beside his nostrils, likely caused by cosmetic surgery, and on his knee, probably from a medical procedure. His remaining hair, according to the report, was short and tightly-curled. The singer also had depigmentation of the skin around his face, chest, abdomen and arms, corroborating reports that he suffered from vitiligo

[Firehead11]

Dr. Klein has a twitter page on which he announced a lecture on Michael Jackson called "Heal the skin" (which already took place).

I posted about that at another site. It makes me sick that he did this. I hope that there is some recourse that the executors can take against this (cough) doctor.

[Firehead11]

Are you trying to lead us to believe that this rag news article is verification that someone outside of the LA Medical Examiners Office proves what a poster here is saying that she saw the Autopsy Report?

I would think that there are two issues that are being confused. Xenam was addressing the issue of a named source that someone wanted.


IMO, no-one but Res can address the issue of the autopsy report claim that she has made.

[who_is_it]

I posted about that at another site. It makes me sick that he did this. I hope that there is some recourse that the executors can take against this (cough) doctor.

He announced the lecture with pics of Michael (not like a scientific lecture). I also wonder how he could could disclose information about Michael's diseases:

"(...)These laws stem from 1990s legislation known as the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act or HIPAA. Basically, the law forbids medical professionals from disclosing health information unless a patient provides consent to do so."

http://www.salon.com/env/vital_signs/2009/07/13/dr_arnold_klein/

[who_is_it]

I posted about that at another site. It makes me sick that he did this. I hope that there is some recourse that the executors can take against this (cough) doctor.

Want to add to my reply above:

Imo Dr. Klein harms his own business. Celebrities don't like to be treated by a doctor who doesn't keep information confidential.

[Firehead11]

Want to add to my reply above:

Imo Dr. Klein harms his own business. Celebrities don't like to be treated by a doctor who doesn't keep information confidential.

I would also think that the use of Jackson's image may also be a problem for klein.

[LadyFuzz]

I believe the point was " a name sourced". From your link:

"His overall health was fine," said Dr Zeev Kain, the University of California physician who reviewed the report for the Associated Press. "The results are in normal limits."

Jackson had scars behind his ears and beside his nostrils, likely caused by cosmetic surgery, and on his knee, probably from a medical procedure. His remaining hair, according to the report, was short and tightly-curled. The singer also had depigmentation of the skin around his face, chest, abdomen and arms, corroborating reports that he suffered from vitiligo

What report would that be? Do you really believe the Associated Press has the official autopsy report?

The autopsy report has not been released yet. No one has it. If the Associated Press really had it they would have put it out by now.

JMO

[LadyFuzz]

Authorities also obtained a suspension notice from a Houston hospital.

In the wake of the investigation, a slew of liens and lawsuits against Murray has emerged. In the last three years, Murray has faced lawsuits for unpaid business bills totaling over $700,000, including rent on his medical offices. He also owes more than $13,000 in child support and $70,000 to a business partner with whom he launched an energy drink called Pitbull. Plus, he failed to pay more than $71,000 worth of student loans from medical school.

Murray was also charged with domestic violence in February 1994 while undergoing a cardiology fellowship at the University of Arizona at Tucson. He stood trial in July of that year and was ultimately acquitted.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/story?page=1&id=8319786

This is ridicules. I was only asking about hospital suspensions. Not all this other stuff.

Again, what hospitals, why, and who are your sources that he was not allowed to practice in hospitals? There is nothing in this link that backs up what you said in your original post. jmo

[ResJudicata]

This is ridicules. I was only asking about hospital suspensions. Not all this other stuff.

Again, what hospitals, why, and who are your sources that he was not allowed to practice in hospitals? There is nothing in this link that backs up what you said in your original post. jmo


I believe I read that he got that suspension for failing to keep adequate patient records. I have never heard of him practicing at any other hospital, except for maybe when he had accidentally poked a hole in his patients heart, killing him. I guess that would have occured in a hospital, but I don't know which one.

[LadyFuzz]

I believe I read that he got that suspension for failing to keep adequate patient records. I have never heard of him practicing at any other hospital, except for maybe when he had accidentally poked a hole in his patients heart, killing him. I guess that would have occured in a hospital, but I don't know which one.

What are you talking about?

[ResJudicata]

What are you talking about?

Oh, I'm sorry. I was talking about the other patient that Dr. Murray killed during a procedure. You know, the one before MJ.

[ResJudicata]

There is nothing about your comment that I misunderstood!! You specifically stated that "I saw the autopsy report." If that is true then share with us a copy of that report or where it is we can find it since you are the only one who has seen it. Don't give us a song and dance about a leak of a report. That dog won't hunt.


I said I meant report of report. It all can be easily found on the internet. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
:smile:

[Firehead11]

http://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/news/a181388/jackson-doc-misses-court-hearing.html

Michael Jackson's former doctor Conrad Murray may be taken into custody after he missed a scheduled court hearing.

The medical practitioner, who is being investigated in a manslaughter probe into the death of the singer, skipped a legal hearing over late child support payments.

Murray was to appear in a Las Vegas courtroom to explain why he was behind on the restitution, PA reports.

Clark County district attorney David Rogers said that the physician's non-attendance could result in him being served an arrest warrant within 10 days' time.

He stated: "At that time we'll send our investigators out to locate and arrest Dr Murray."

Rogers added that he planned to call the Nevada state medical board to have Murrray's licence suspended over the outstanding monies owed.

Court documents have suggested that Murray administered the drug propofol to the popstar in order to aid his sleep depravation. Jackson's passing been ruled as homicide.

AND
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/criminal-case-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray/story?id=8790604The Los Angeles Police Department plans to present its criminal case against Michael Jackson's personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, to the LA district attorney as early as Monday, a source told ABC News today.


Share
Anti-anxiety medications and marijuana may have caused Jackson's death.Murray remains the focus of a manslaughter investigation into the pop star's death. Another source told ABC News that while the DA may be presented with the case imminently, it's likely to take another "several weeks" for the DA to decide whether to bring charges against Murray. If they bring a case, they'll most likely do it via grand jury, but they could also charge Murray through a criminal complaint.

That means any indictment wouldn't happen for at least another month, and any trial could be about six months away

[LadyFuzz]

Oh, I'm sorry. I was talking about the other patient that Dr. Murray killed during a procedure. You know, the one before MJ.


Link to patient Dr Murray killed during a procedure before MJ.

[ResJudicata]

Link to patient Dr Murray killed during a procedure before MJ.



Today, TMZ published an exclusive which cites a Nevada coroner’s report claiming that in 2007, Jackson’s now famous doctor, cardiologist Conrad Murray (who had offices in Texas and Nevada) mistakenly punctured the heart of a 67-year-old Las Vegas man during a procedure—and that the medical misstep was a cause in the man’s death. But because the case (like all medical malpractice cases) would have been so extremely expensive to pursue, the family never filed suit.

http://www.thepoptort.com/2009/07/michael-jacksons-doctor-and-socalled-tort-reform-.html

[ResJudicata]

http://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/news/a181388/jackson-doc-misses-court-hearing.html

Michael Jackson's former doctor Conrad Murray may be taken into custody after he missed a scheduled court hearing.

The medical practitioner, who is being investigated in a manslaughter probe into the death of the singer, skipped a legal hearing over late child support payments.

Murray was to appear in a Las Vegas courtroom to explain why he was behind on the restitution, PA reports.

Clark County district attorney David Rogers said that the physician's non-attendance could result in him being served an arrest warrant within 10 days' time.

He stated: "At that time we'll send our investigators out to locate and arrest Dr Murray."

Rogers added that he planned to call the Nevada state medical board to have Murrray's licence suspended over the outstanding monies owed.

Court documents have suggested that Murray administered the drug propofol to the popstar in order to aid his sleep depravation. Jackson's passing been ruled as homicide.

AND
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/criminal-case-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray/story?id=8790604The Los Angeles Police Department plans to present its criminal case against Michael Jackson's personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, to the LA district attorney as early as Monday, a source told ABC News today.


Share
Anti-anxiety medications and marijuana may have caused Jackson's death.Murray remains the focus of a manslaughter investigation into the pop star's death. Another source told ABC News that while the DA may be presented with the case imminently, it's likely to take another "several weeks" for the DA to decide whether to bring charges against Murray. If they bring a case, they'll most likely do it via grand jury, but they could also charge Murray through a criminal complaint.

That means any indictment wouldn't happen for at least another month, and any trial could be about six months away

Marijuana has never caused the death of anyone, including Michael Jackson.

[LadyFuzz]

Today, TMZ published an exclusive which cites a Nevada coroner’s report claiming that in 2007, Jackson’s now famous doctor, cardiologist Conrad Murray (who had offices in Texas and Nevada) mistakenly punctured the heart of a 67-year-old Las Vegas man during a procedure—and that the medical misstep was a cause in the man’s death. But because the case (like all medical malpractice cases) would have been so extremely expensive to pursue, the family never filed suit.

http://www.thepoptort.com/2009/07/michael-jacksons-doctor-and-socalled-tort-reform-.html

Where are the criminal charges? Do you even know the difference between a tort and criminal?

This is like the Jackson case. A tort and not criminal charges.

imo

[LadyFuzz]

http://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/news/a181388/jackson-doc-misses-court-hearing.html

Michael Jackson's former doctor Conrad Murray may be taken into custody after he missed a scheduled court hearing.

The medical practitioner, who is being investigated in a manslaughter probe into the death of the singer, skipped a legal hearing over late child support payments.

Murray was to appear in a Las Vegas courtroom to explain why he was behind on the restitution, PA reports.

Clark County district attorney David Rogers said that the physician's non-attendance could result in him being served an arrest warrant within 10 days' time.

He stated: "At that time we'll send our investigators out to locate and arrest Dr Murray."

Rogers added that he planned to call the Nevada state medical board to have Murrray's licence suspended over the outstanding monies owed.

Court documents have suggested that Murray administered the drug propofol to the popstar in order to aid his sleep depravation. Jackson's passing been ruled as homicide.

AND
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/MichaelJackson/criminal-case-jackson-doctor-conrad-murray/story?id=8790604The Los Angeles Police Department plans to present its criminal case against Michael Jackson's personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, to the LA district attorney as early as Monday, a source told ABC News today.


Share
Anti-anxiety medications and marijuana may have caused Jackson's death.Murray remains the focus of a manslaughter investigation into the pop star's death. Another source told ABC News that while the DA may be presented with the case imminently, it's likely to take another "several weeks" for the DA to decide whether to bring charges against Murray. If they bring a case, they'll most likely do it via grand jury, but they could also charge Murray through a criminal complaint.

That means any indictment wouldn't happen for at least another month, and any trial could be about six months away

bolding mine

First I've heard of this. Your links aren't working.

[ResJudicata]

Where are the criminal charges? Do you even know the difference between a tort and criminal?

This is like the Jackson case. A tort and not criminal charges.

imo

No, that isn't like the Jackson case. In the earlier case Murray was actually performing a bonifide medical procedure, and the man died as a result of negligence. That is a tort.

In the MJ case, Murray was NOT performing a bonifide medical procedure, he was not in a hospital with adequate equipment, and he used a combination and dosage of drugs that were lethal. His actions went way beyond negligence, into homicidal actions. That is what makes it criminal. Thats not to say that the Jackson's don't have a great medical malpractice against him, but that won't preclude the filing of crimnal charges against Murray.

[LadyFuzz]

Marijuana has never caused the death of anyone, including Michael Jackson.

And how do you know marijuana has never caused a death? Especially when mixed with other drugs.

[LadyFuzz]

No, that isn't like the Jackson case. In the earlier case Murray was actually performing a bonifide medical procedure, and the man died as a result of negligence. That is a tort.

In the MJ case, Murray was NOT performing a bonifide medical procedure, he was not in a hospital with adequate equipment, and he used a combination and dosage of drugs that were lethal. His actions went way beyond negligence, into homicidal actions. That is what makes it criminal. Thats not to say that the Jackson's don't have a great medical malpractice against him, but that won't preclude the filing of crimnal charges against Murray.

You were the one who was comparing them, not me.

[ResJudicata]

Never Res??? I am sure I can find more.

YAKIMA — A young driver had been smoking marijuana before he got into a head-on crash that left an off-duty sheriff's deputy dead, state troopers say.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003999176_webdeputyfatal07.html


The crash killed him, not the marijuana.

[ResJudicata]

And how do you know marijuana has never caused a death? Especially when mixed with other drugs.


First of all.. the report that we all read and that was reviewed by the UCI doctor indicated there were no other drugs in his system, which would mean that MJ hadn't used marijuana within the prior 30 days minimum, if he ever used it at all.

And secondly, marijuana, in and of itself has never caused a death. If you mix it with other drugs, it would be the other drugs that killed you. Even people who have been injected with pure THC have not overdosed, according to the medical research out there.

[ResJudicata]

You can spin this anyway you want to. If he hadn't been smoking dope, he wouldn't have killed the deputy. He was impaired by the effects of marijuana which caused the accident that caused a fatality. Your defense of the use of marijuana is well noted.

Thats ridiculous. The effects of any medication can impair ones driving ability. It sounds to me like he would be a bad driver either way. Its off topic anyway. Michael Jackson did not die from marijuana, nor was it present in his system at the time of his death.

[LadyFuzz]

Thats ridiculous. The effects of any medication can impair ones driving ability. It sounds to me like he would be a bad driver either way. Its off topic anyway. Michael Jackson did not die from marijuana, nor was it present in his system at the time of his death.

We don't know what was present in his system. We have not seen the tox report just the same as we have not seen the autopsy report.

jmo

[LadyFuzz]

Thank you; you are absolutely correct. Lady Fuzz asked for a source and MK Ultra referred to the article that Res posted which quoted the Guardian so I linked the original article in question

Of course I cannot vouch for anyone on the board claiming to have seen the autopsy report and actually surprised Eagle would think that? :confused:

Why would you be surprised since that is exactly what the poster said?

[ResJudicata]

We don't know what was present in his system. We have not seen the tox report just the same as we have not seen the autopsy report.

jmo

If you don't want to believe all of the reports last week regarding the autopsy, thats fine with me. It seems that you continue to grasp at anything and everything other than what is reality.


An Associated Press story last week speculated that the autopsy results showing Jackson to be in good health for a man his age and free of illegal drugs in his system could pose a problem for Murray. The coroner has ruled Jackson's death a homicide caused by acute propofol intoxication — which the coroner found was administered without any medical reason — and the autopsy findings negate a potentially strong defense for Murray: that Jackson was hiding serious preexisting conditions that increased his risk of death from the drugs he willingly took and requested.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1623256/20091007/jackson_michael.jhtml

[LadyFuzz]

*OnmyJudicata* used the words "it has been reported" so don't expect any link with a direct quote from the coroner coming from either one of her nics.

......:laugh::laugh::laugh:.........

[LadyFuzz]

If you don't want to believe all of the reports last week regarding the autopsy, thats fine with me. It seems that you continue to grasp at anything and everything other than what is reality.

I sure don't grasp at your reality.:biggrin:

[LadyFuzz]

Good evening all..just checking in to see if there is anything new?? Doesnt seem so....Happy Friday to all...BTW this is our Thanksgiving Weekend..looking forward to my Turkey Gobbler....LOL..Anyway You guys keep posting..love to hear/read news updates....at this point dont wish to rehash old things..

LMS :loveeyes:

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.:rose:

[ResJudicata]

I sure don't grasp at your reality.:biggrin:


Yes, I am well aware of that.

[ResJudicata]

Off Topic!! You are the one who brought it up not I. That is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black don't you think? I have never said a word about Michael Jackson smoking dope.


You are mistaken again. I am not the one who brought it up. I personally don't think MJ did smoke "dope" either.

[EvilEyeBall]

"The singer also had depigmentation of the skin around his face, chest, abdomen and arms, corroborating reports that he suffered from vitiligo."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/oct/02/michael-jackson-autopsy

imo the depigmentation of his skin was due to his own depigmentation of it, using benoquin.

[GentleBreeze]

imo the depigmentation of his skin was due to his own depigmentation of it, using benoquin.

What is Benoquin (monobenzone topical)?
Monobenzone topical (for the skin) is a depigmenting agent. It works by increasing the amount of skin pigment molecules (melanin) eliminated from skin cells in the body.

Monobenzone is used to permanently depigment (lighten) skin in people with a condition called vitiligo. Depigmenting (lightening) darker skin around areas of skin affected by vitiligo helps even out the coloring and appearance of the skin.

http://www.drugs.com/mtm/benoquin.html

[LadyFuzz]

What is Benoquin (monobenzone topical)?
Monobenzone topical (for the skin) is a depigmenting agent. It works by increasing the amount of skin pigment molecules (melanin) eliminated from skin cells in the body.

Monobenzone is used to permanently depigment (lighten) skin in people with a condition called vitiligo. Depigmenting (lightening) darker skin around areas of skin affected by vitiligo helps even out the coloring and appearance of the skin.

http://www.drugs.com/mtm/benoquin.html

You don't have to have vitillago to use Benoquin. It can be used to bleach the skin just because you want to bleach your skin. IMO

[warhorse46]

This is ridicules. I was only asking about hospital suspensions. Not all this other stuff.

Again, what hospitals, why, and who are your sources that he was not allowed to practice in hospitals? There is nothing in this link that backs up what you said in your original post. jmo


Read here re what hospital suspended Dr. Murray.
http://dig.abclocal.go.com/ktrk/second_search_Warrant_Texas.pdf

[daniel green]

imo the depigmentation of his skin was due to his own depigmentation of it, using benoquin.

Well, yeah. And the portions of his body he depigmented were clear in the autopsy report that AP saw.

[Firehead11]

Marijuana has never caused the death of anyone, including Michael Jackson.


I didn't write the article so I cannot be held responsible for the authors opinion of pot.:tongueside:

[ResJudicata]

Well, yeah. And the portions of his body he depigmented were clear in the autopsy report that AP saw.

I guess the AP saw the bedsores too, huh?

[who_is_it]

"An auction of MJ memorabilia took place yesterday in L.A., including his 1976 high school yearbook from Cal Prep in Encino, CA. In the yearbook, Michael was voted pretty much what everyone would have expected -- best dressed, most creative, shyest -- but NOT most likely to succeed."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/10/michael-jackson-not-most-likely-to-succeed/

[who_is_it]

"Here's a tug on the heartstrings: Michael Jackson'skids saw a sad, two-legged puppy on the news ... and now they're trying to raise money to buy it new mechanical legs."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/10/jackson-kids-take-on-canine-crusade-two-legged-dog-paris-michael-jr-blanket/

The kids seem to be like his father..., raised by him they do what he would have done imo...

[Firehead11]

I have started to watch past rehersal videos of Jackson's so I have a point to compare when I see the last movie. These can be found at You Tube.

[ResJudicata]

Michael went shopping for a drug doctor. It is his initial action which brought on the subsequent chain of events which ended in his death. MJ sought out a bought-and-paid-for doctor who would give him the drugs he wanted and *hopefully* keep him safe while he took them. Michael got what he went looking for -- a shady physician with outrageous financial and personal responsibility issues.

Let's get real. The Hippocratic Oath goes right out the window when the discussion is about a substance abuser and a doctor he found who was willing to help him abuse his substances of choice. If MJ went looking for an ethical physician, one who upheld the Hippocratic Oath, he would not have found one who would agree to do for him what Murray did.

You may be right about the doctor shopping, but that confirms that he wasn't doing the drug consistently for the past "decade" as some have suggested. I think he only started doing it again, because he thought that was the only way he would get through doing the 50 shows. I think he was injected with speed for the shows/rehearsals, and broght back down with propofol when they were done for the day. I'm not sure if Michael had control over that situation or not.

[ResJudicata]

What do you mean "he was injected with speed?" As in, against his will? And "brought back down with propofol" against his will? For real? This 50 year-old man ... father of three ... musical genius ... humanitarian ... "King of Pop" ... gazillionaire ... and on and on? This is the same man who was injected with uppers and anesthesia against his will?

Utter nonsense, imo. Either he was the "King" or a helpless victim. Pick one, because you can't have both, imo

It was incredibly self-absorbed and manipulative of MJ to try to play both roles. No one should defend it.

I find it refreshing that you have finally admitted he was a musical genius and a humanitarian. Good for you!
:thumbsup:

[Firehead11]

Michael went shopping for a drug doctor. It is his initial action which brought on the subsequent chain of events which ended in his death. MJ sought out a bought-and-paid-for doctor who would give him the drugs he wanted and *hopefully* keep him safe while he took them. Michael got what he went looking for -- a shady physician with outrageous financial and personal responsibility issues.

Let's get real. The Hippocratic Oath goes right out the window when the discussion is about a substance abuser and a doctor he found who was willing to help him abuse his substances of choice. If MJ went looking for an ethical physician, one who upheld the Hippocratic Oath, he would not have found one who would agree to do for him what Murray did.

Would you also think that if a prostitute got murdered by her john that it would be the same thing? Maybe her john would be into rough sex or worse.

Jackson asked to be knocked out according to Murray & Lee. It may or may not be true. But I doubt that he was addicted to as many drugs as some suggest. But he did not ask for his doctor to kill him.

I can't wait for the entire tox report to be released. I think a few will be surprised at what was found. If I am wrong, I will eat crow. I have the recipes ready.

[LadyFuzz]

"Here's a tug on the heartstrings: Michael Jackson'skids saw a sad, two-legged puppy on the news ... and now they're trying to raise money to buy it new mechanical legs."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/10/jackson-kids-take-on-canine-crusade-two-legged-dog-paris-michael-jr-blanket/

The kids seem to be like his father..., raised by him they do what he would have done imo...

Oh, that sweet, precious little life. I hope the kids get plenty of publicity to help raise money for this pup. I hope they donate a great deal of money too. I will donate too.

[LadyFuzz]

You may be right about the doctor shopping, but that confirms that he wasn't doing the drug consistently for the past "decade" as some have suggested. I think he only started doing it again, because he thought that was the only way he would get through doing the 50 shows. I think he was injected with speed for the shows/rehearsals, and broght back down with propofol when they were done for the day. I'm not sure if Michael had control over that situation or not.

It is well known Jackson was an addict from the time he got his head burned. Didn't you yourself say that's what started his addiction?? You know, the excuse for his starting on the path of being an addict?

jmo

[ResJudicata]

It is well known Jackson was an addict from the time he got his head burned. Didn't you yourself say that's what started his addiction?? You know, the excuse for his starting on the path of being an addict?

jmo

I know that he was on tv at one time and said he was seeking help for addiction. Beyond that, I don't know if he was or wasn't using drugs. I know the autopsy report showed no other drugs besides what Murray gave him.

[ResJudicata]

Oh, that sweet, precious little life. I hope the kids get plenty of publicity to help raise money for this pup. I hope they donate a great deal of money too. I will donate too.

It is a cute dog, with a cute name too. Scooby Roo... haha

[ResJudicata]

Whether it's a prostitute and her john or MJ and his drug doc, the fact is, when you play with fire in this life, you often get burned. What, in heaven's name, is so difficult to understand about that concept? :shrug:

Michael didn't ask his doctor to kill him. There is nothing hard to understanding that... for some of us anyway.

[ResJudicata]

No one who plays with fire expects to burn himself up. If Michael wanted to insure his safety, he should've given up his reliance on drugs and his doctor shopping. Apparently, MJ's desire for drugs and/or or his desire to have whatever he desired, trumped his desire to remain safe.

The reason we don't do certain things in life is because of the risk involved. Michael assumed the risk. It didn't work out so well this time around.


Michael didn't administer the drugs to himself. He hired someone he felt was qualified to do the deed without killing him. He had a desire to sleep, and I don't see that as a crime.

[Firehead11]

Whether it's a prostitute and her john or MJ and his drug doc, the fact is, when you play with fire in this life, you often get burned. What, in heaven's name, is so difficult to understand about that concept? :shrug:

What is so hard to understand that this doctor took a life? He administered drugs that should only be administered by a trained anesthesiologist and in a hospital setting? Not in a bedroom without the proper medical equipment, standing at the ready. Just in case it was needed and IT WAS needed on June 25th.

If this had happened to one in your family, I can't imagine that you would just say "Oh well".

[Firehead11]

No one who plays with fire expects to burn himself up. If Michael wanted to insure his safety, he should've given up his reliance on drugs and his doctor shopping. Apparently, MJ's desire for drugs and/or or his desire to have whatever he desired, trumped his desire to remain safe.

The reason we don't do certain things in life is because of the risk involved. Michael assumed the risk. It didn't work out so well this time around.


I wonder if you will be saying all of this IF the full tox report shows ONLY the drugs that doctor administered were present in his system.

[LadyFuzz]

I know that he was on tv at one time and said he was seeking help for addiction. Beyond that, I don't know if he was or wasn't using drugs. I know the autopsy report showed no other drugs besides what Murray gave him.

No, you do not know that since the tox report isn't out. I guess he needed all those aliases and doctors because he wasn't a drug addict.:rolleyes:

jmo

[LadyFuzz]

Michael didn't ask his doctor to kill him. There is nothing hard to understanding that... for some of us anyway.

Did he think the white rabbit he was dancing with would kill him? He knew how dangerous the drug was and took it anyway. :rolleyes:

jmo

[ResJudicata]

Did he think the white rabbit he was dancing with would kill him? He knew how dangerous the drug was and took it anyway. :rolleyes:

jmo

The white rabbit? Is this a flashback to the 60's?

[LadyFuzz]

I'm still wondering if Murray is holding a signed waiver from Jackson.

A waiver signed by Jackson saying he knew how dangerous the drug was and it could kill him, but he wanted it anyway. Maybe even saying he wanted it without the proper medical equipment because he didn't want to put the money out for it.

After all, since the doctor was treating Jackson in his home, it would be up to Jackson to let the doctor order equipment and Jackson to agree to pay for it. He has all the responsibility to have the medical equipment there for the doctor to use as far as I'm concerned.

After all, Jackson had the equipment long ago for the doctor giving him Diprivan at that time. It's not like Jackson didn't know it was needed.

I wonder what the jury would think of that?

Again, it is not a controlled substance.:wink:

JMO

[ResJudicata]

I'm still wondering if Murray is holding a signed waiver from Jackson.

A waiver signed by Jackson saying he knew how dangerous the drug was and it could kill him, but he wanted it anyway. Maybe even saying he wanted it without the proper medical equipment because he didn't want to put the money out for it.

After all, since the doctor was treating Jackson in his home, it would be up to Jackson to let the doctor order equipment and Jackson to agree to pay for it. He has all the responsibility to have the medical equipment there for the doctor to use as far as I'm concerned.

After all, Jackson had the equipment long ago for the doctor giving him Diprivan at that time. It's not like Jackson didn't know it was needed.

I wonder what the jury would think of that?

Again, it is not a controlled substance.:wink:

JMO

I don't think he signed a waiver saying it would be ok for Murray to leave the room and call everyone he ever knew, while Michael lay dying.

[LadyFuzz]

The white rabbit? Is this a flashback to the 60's?

http://freerangetalk.com/?p=17409

Dancing With The White Rabbit

snipped

Some say it induces mild euphoria, others don’t. But all users concur that it makes you uninhibited and horny as hell. As if that isn’t enough, it gives the user hyper-real sexual hallucinations. People who had undergone bona fide procedures where Propofol was “on board” as part of the anesthesia protocol firmly believe they just had a wild sexual hook up. It takes effect so quickly that if you had to count backward from 100, you wouldn’t make it to 97. And it doesn’t make you groggy, so no one will ever know you just hooked up with a hallucination.

[ResJudicata]

http://freerangetalk.com/?p=17409

Dancing With The White Rabbit



"White Rabbit" is a psychedelic rock/acid rock song from Jefferson Airplane's 1967 album Surrealistic Pillow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rabbit_(song)

[ResJudicata]

http://freerangetalk.com/?p=17409

Dancing With The White Rabbit

snipped

Some say it induces mild euphoria, others don’t. But all users concur that it makes you uninhibited and horny as hell. As if that isn’t enough, it gives the user hyper-real sexual hallucinations. People who had undergone bona fide procedures where Propofol was “on board” as part of the anesthesia protocol firmly believe they just had a wild sexual hook up. It takes effect so quickly that if you had to count backward from 100, you wouldn’t make it to 97. And it doesn’t make you groggy, so no one will ever know you just hooked up with a hallucination.

I doubt that Michael needed a drug if he wanted a wild sexual hookup. Personally, I don't think he was into that due to his religious beliefs.

[LadyFuzz]

I doubt that Michael needed a drug if he wanted a wild sexual hookup. Personally, I don't think he was into that due to his religious beliefs.

Personally, I think Jackson was addicted to this drug for much more than just sleep. imo

[LadyFuzz]

"White Rabbit" is a psychedelic rock/acid rock song from Jefferson Airplane's 1967 album Surrealistic Pillow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rabbit_(song)

There must be more than one White Rabbit.:biggrin: I think maybe Dirprivan was named after this song. imo

[ResJudicata]

Personally, I think Jackson was addicted to this drug for much more than just sleep. imo

I can't say that I'm surprised you would think that.

[ResJudicata]

There must be more than one White Rabbit.:biggrin:


It all originates from "Alice in Wonderland."

[LadyFuzz]

snipped from the same link:

http://freerangetalk.com/?p=17409

Dancing with the White Rabbit


It’s safe in the hands of an anesthesiologist, but in the recreational user, there is a 25% chance of dying. You die really, really quickly and it’s a snap to do. Only a couple of cc’s, or 20 milligrams more than the therapeutic dose will make you permanently dance with the white rabbit. But great sex is great sex even if it’s all between the ears and zipper-less; the odds at 25% don’t deter users

[LadyFuzz]

The whole "he just wanted to sleep, poor baby" line of reasoning is ludicrous, imo, especially given how many times MJ had apparently been put under with propofol over the years. He knew he wasn't getting good quality REM sleep, as I'm sure he was just as fatigued after a hit of propofol as he was after a sleepless night. He didn't want the stuff to "sleep." He wanted it for the pleasurable effects he received from it. It's just garden variety substance abuse when you boil it down -- nothing fancy or special about it, imo.

We may have a handle on this drug. The hallucinations must be very vivid indeed. imo

[LadyFuzz]

It all originates from "Alice in Wonderland."

Funny, I thought it had something to do with hallucinations??? Sort of like Diprivan. imo

[LadyFuzz]

I can't say that I'm surprised you would think that.

Now what do you mean by that? Are you not reading my posts and did you not read the link I supplied regarding hallucinations with Diprivan? :tonguewag:

[ResJudicata]

Now what do you mean by that? Are you not reading my posts and did you not read the link I supplied? :tonguewag:

The link is to a blog, not any news source whatsoever. I generally try to stay away from those racy blogs, but please don't let me stop you from having your fun.

[LadyFuzz]

The link is to a blog, not any news source whatsoever. I generally try to stay away from those racy blogs, but please don't let me stop you from having your fun.

That was not a "racy blog". That's just information about Diprivan we didn't know, until now that is.:wink:

Did you see this?

Categorized | Chemistry, Health, Healthcare, Media

Stop bashing me and my link.

[ResJudicata]

That was not a "racy blog". That's just information about Diprivan we didn't know, until now that is.:wink:

Did you see this?

Categorized | Chemistry, Health, Healthcare, Media

Stop bashing me and my link.


this is what I saw from your link:


Tags: addicts, anesthetic, Babs please don't go there, healthcare professionals, horny as hell, pronapping, Propofol, sexual hallucinations

[Roxxanne]

The drug doesn't create a good night's sleep -- nothing we've read or heard makes that claim. MJ wasn't using propofol to sleep any more than any substance abuser uses his drug of choice for "therapeutic" reasons. He liked the high for whatever reason.

It's expected MJ would come up with every excuse in the book why he "needed" the drugs he took -- that's what substance abusers do. Why anyone in the world chooses to buy the excuses he was selling is the real curiosity, imo.

From Fuzz's link.
It can make a 10 minute nap feel like you’ve slept a full night

[LadyFuzz]

this is what I saw from your link:


Tags: addicts, anesthetic, Babs please don't go there, healthcare professionals, horny as hell, pronapping, Propofol, sexual hallucinations

So what? That just happens to be Propofol. imo

I can see why YOU don't like the link, but so be it. imo

Prove that is a racy link.

[LadyFuzz]

http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/97/2/268

* Oxford Journals
* Medicine
* BJA: British Journal of Anaesthesia
* Volume 97, Number 2
* Pp. 268


snipped:

Euphoria, sexual hallucinations and disinhibition have been described on recovery of propofol anaesthesia.1 2 These effects could explain the recreational use of the drug.

[LadyFuzz]

From Fuzz's link.
It can make a 10 minute nap feel like you’ve slept a full night

Except the body didn't get the sleep it needed. jmo

[Cindylee]

MJ hired a shady drug doc who would do his bidding and hopefully keep his mouth shut about it, for which MJ was willing to pay $150K/month. Jackson had a desire to have his drugs, administered by a doctor. No legitimate doctor would sign on for such work, just as no legitimate doctors over the years would prescribe all the drugs MJ wanted, in the quantities MJ wanted them, for the purposes MJ claimed to need them. In none of my posts will you see me allude to MJ as having committed a "crime." Nor will you see me post that I don't believe Murray should be charged with whatever crimes he has committed. My point is, was, and will continue to be MJ contributed to his own death by handing over his well-being to the various nefarious characters he was acquainted with for purposes of continuing his substance abuse.

:seeya: I agree with every word.

[ResJudicata]

So what? That just happens to be Propofol. imo

I can see why YOU don't like the link, but so be it. imo

Prove that is a racy link.


umm, just look at the taglines. Theres your proof.

[who_is_it]

The drug doesn't create a good night's sleep -- nothing we've read or heard makes that claim. MJ wasn't using propofol to sleep any more than any substance abuser uses his drug of choice for "therapeutic" reasons. He liked the high for whatever reason.

It's expected MJ would come up with every excuse in the book why he "needed" the drugs he took -- that's what substance abusers do. Why anyone in the world chooses to buy the excuses he was selling is the real curiosity, imo.

It doesn't make a big difference. Addiction is a disease and one can't hold any addict responsible. I'm tired to discuss this over and over.

Addicts use excuses, yes. But why is this relevant in the whole discussion? (Though I believe the drug was used to make him sleep) to me it doesn't make a difference if insomnia or the wish of a "high" was the reason why Dr. Murray administered the drug.

[LadyFuzz]

umm, just look at the taglines. Theres your proof.

Not true. What's your excuse for the other link?:tonguewag:

[LadyFuzz]

Michael didn't ask his doctor to kill him. There is nothing hard to understanding that... for some of us anyway.

Jackson might as well have. Obviously he didn't fork over the money for the life saving equipment needed. He hired a doctor not a miracle worker. imo

[BOZGAL2]

Jackson might as well have. Obviously he didn't fork over the money for the life saving equipment needed. He hired a doctor not a miracle worker. imo


The only obvious assumption in this senseless death is that DR M is totally clueless or asleep during Med School.

JMO

[who_is_it]

Jackson might as well have. Obviously he didn't fork over the money for the life saving equipment needed. He hired a doctor not a miracle worker. imo

To get the life saving equpiment or to tell MJ about the necessity is really, really the doctor's job.

MJ always went to see doctors, maybe he even was a bit hypochondriac... -- why wouldn't have been a defibrillator in the house if Murray had told him about its importance?

[who_is_it]

Jay-Z pays tribute to Michael Jackson

"Rap’s foremost MC pays tribute to the King of Pop in British music magazine NME's new issue, which is dedicated to lost musical icons."
(...)
"Shawn Carter also mentions the little-known fact that Jackson sang on the remix of "Girls, Girls, Girls" back in 2001, which went mostly unnoticed because MJ wasn’t credited on the single. But take a listen to the song below—once you know what to expect, you can totally tell it’s Michael’s silky voice on the hook."

http://music-mix.ew.com/2009/10/07/jay-z-tribute-michael-jackson-nme/

Jay-Z - What Michael Jackson meant to me
http://www.nme.com/blog/index.php?blog=125&p=7256

One can CLEARLY hear Michael's voice on the single "Girls, Girls, Girls" (linked on the site of the article).

[daniel green]

The whole "he just wanted to sleep, poor baby" line of reasoning is ludicrous, imo, especially given how many times MJ had apparently been put under with propofol over the years. He knew he wasn't getting good quality REM sleep, as I'm sure he was just as fatigued after a hit of propofol as he was after a sleepless night. He didn't want the stuff to "sleep." He wanted it for the pleasurable effects he received from it. It's just garden variety substance abuse when you boil it down -- nothing fancy or special about it, imo.

Yep. That's it, exactly. Nothing fancy about it. Of course, there is nothing fancy or special about substance abuse and addiction.

[daniel green]

ET's Kevin Frazier exclusively sits down with Michael Jackson's former dermatologist Dr. Arnie Klein, who says he warned Michael about the dangers of the powerful drug that allegedly led to his death. "I told him that it was very dangerous. I told him it was addicting. And, I told him that he really shouldn't be using it," Klein says he told Michael about Propofol. Klein says he didn't know Jackson was allegedly using Propofol around the time of his death, but he says Jackson had told him in years past that he'd used the drug. "I knew that he had over-used Profol because in Germany on a tour, he told me that he was using Propofol. And I know that he had a bag of Propofol and called me one night and wanted me to start, and I told him how insane he was and went out there and told him, 'You can't start doing this.'"

Click the video for more of Kevin's interview with Dr. Klein.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/10/79538/index.html

[sallemae]

No one who plays with fire expects to burn himself up. If Michael wanted to insure his safety, he should've given up his reliance on drugs and his doctor shopping. Apparently, MJ's desire for drugs and/or or his desire to have whatever he desired, trumped his desire to remain safe.

The reason we don't do certain things in life is because of the risk involved. Michael assumed the risk. It didn't work out so well this time around.


Why was that doctor Murray hired for?:rolleyes:

[LadyFuzz]

Apparently you neglected to actually read the article and the blog. It is quite informative especially the link down in the blog that gives the drugs that have serious effects on the liver. There was nothing "racy" or wrong with that article. You are using those tags to obfuscate the true meaning of the article which is to inform. Frankly, I was happy to get the information especially which drugs adversely effect the liver. Read it again and become informed for yourself. Good find LadyFuzz, I don't always agree with you but this was good information, as I am sure most here will agree.

http://freerangetalk.com/?p=17409

http://hepcnet.net/drugsandliverdamage.html

Thank you Eagle.

[LadyFuzz]

To get the life saving equpiment or to tell MJ about the necessity is really, really the doctor's job.

MJ always went to see doctors, maybe he even was a bit hypochondriac... -- why wouldn't have been a defibrillator in the house if Murray had told him about its importance?

Probably because MJ didn't think it necessary. Since Murray hadn't been paid, he couldn't very well afford the medical equipment. I think Murray told him about the danger. Others sure had told him too.

Jackson wanted this kept quiet. Perhaps he balked at having any equipment delivered to his house.

I really don't think Jackson worried about getting this drug. His drive for it outweighed everything.

JMO

[Firehead11]

I already know what I am going to hear but I will ask anyway, Where does it state that Jackson received this drug nightly for 6 weeks?

I thought that it had been reported that there was no signs of liver damage. Wouldn't that be a conflicting issue regarding drug abuse and Jackson?

[Firehead11]

FH,

If you are talking about Propofol, I don't think that it was on the list of drugs that contribute to liver damage, that I saw. Since it rapidly leaves the system, I don't think it would cause him any liver problems. I just rechecked the list and I didn't see it there.

http://hepcnet.net/drugsandliverdamage.html

Hi Eagle, actually I am talking about all the other drugs that people believe that Jackson abused for years.

As for propofol, I found somethings but it does not suggest liver damage. BUT the research was done over a period of several surgeries. Nothing what is being claimed by 6 steady weeks of abuse. :confused:

http://www.drugs.com/propofol.html
How should I use propofol?
Propofol is for injection into a vein. It is given by trained anesthesia professionals in a controlled environment.

http://www.drugs.com/mtm/diprivan.html

[ResJudicata]

I already know what I am going to hear but I will ask anyway, Where does it state that Jackson received this drug nightly for 6 weeks?

I thought that it had been reported that there was no signs of liver damage. Wouldn't that be a conflicting issue regarding drug abuse and Jackson?


Six weeks is an improvement over the previously stated 10 years of abuse. Its whatever happens to fit their agenda for that particular day.

[Firehead11]

As far as sexual side effects:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10769556

I sort of doubt that Jackson used this drug for this particular side effect.
http://www.examiner.com/x-4079-SF-Sexual-Health-Examiner~y2009m7d27-The-sexual-side-of-propofol-abuse?cid=exrss-SF-Sexual-Health-Examiner
Why would someone abuse propofol? Unlike many other abused substances propofol does not induce euphoria. According to one anesthesiologist, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, it “makes you uninhibited and horny.” In fact, sexual hallucinations among patients who have received propofol as an anesthetic are well described. These dreams can be so vivid that some patients emerge from the anesthesia with the unshakable belief that they have just experienced a wild sexual encounter.


Also from the same link:


The recreational use of propofol is a high stakes dance with the devil. Knowing that Jackson abused the drug, his untimely death was not so much a matter of if, but when. Jackson, like any other adult, was clearly responsible for his own choices and actions; however, given the risk of death associated with the uncontrolled use of propofol any doctor of health care professional who supplied or administered the drug should be held accountable to the full extent of the law.

[ResJudicata]

MJ's addiction is highly relevant to the discussion, so if you're tired of discussing it, feel free not to. MJ's addiction is what brought trouble to him in the first place. Yes, addicts can be held responsible. Addicts take responsibility every day to clean up their lives. Michael didn't take responsibility, but many addicts do.


Now its time for the doctor(s) who freely write prescriptions for their own financial gain take responsibility for it.

[Firehead11]

I'd love to know the back story on why Murray hadn't been paid. Who was supposed to actually cut him his paycheck? AEG? Or MJ? While I think the entire arrangement is outrageous, you make a valid point that perhaps broke n' busted Murray couldn't afford some of the equipment he needed to properly administer MJ's deadly dangerous drugs to him. That stuff costs big money, I'm guessing.

And you bet MJ wanted it kept quiet. That's why, I'm sure, it was left to Murray to schlep oxygen tanks up and down the backstairs on a regular basis, per Kai Chase. You'd think that sort of *work* would be handled by maintenance or housekeeping staff, not the highly paid physician. It goes directly to the secrecy of the operation, imo.

And I also agree MJ's drive for the drug far surpassed his concern about the risks involved in getting it. By all accounts (Klein, the nurse, and I forget what other sources both credible and incredible), MJ was warned by many people about the dangers of that particular drug. He wanted it despite the risks, and he was clearly determined to have it. imo

But yet, again and again excuses are made for this so called doctor.

I am also tired of the mentality that the doctor is some kind of hero. He contributed to Jacksons death, he should be facing criminal charges for this. I certainly hope it is soon. I feel real sorry for his children. Not only do they have a dead beat dad but their father will also go down into history for contributing to the death of Michael J. Jackson.

I'll tell you what, Murray has some set of gonads complaining about not receiiving his money after he killed his patient.

[ResJudicata]

But yet, again and again excuses are made for this so called doctor.

I am also tired of the mentality that the doctor is some kind of hero. He contributed to Jacksons death, he should be facing criminal charges for this. I certainly hope it is soon. I feel real sorry for his children. Not only do they have a dead beat dad but their father will also go down into history for contributing to the death of Michael J. Jackson.

I'll tell you what, Murray has some set of gonads complaining about not receiiving his money after he killed his patient.


Murray actually sent an invoice after killing Michael. And then complained about it.

[Cindylee]

Welcome back! :seeya:

Thanks. Not much going on I take it. :wink:

[Cindylee]

But yet, again and again excuses are made for this so called doctor.

I am also tired of the mentality that the doctor is some kind of hero. He contributed to Jacksons death, he should be facing criminal charges for this. I certainly hope it is soon. I feel real sorry for his children. Not only do they have a dead beat dad but their father will also go down into history for contributing to the death of Michael J. Jackson.

I'll tell you what, Murray has some set of gonads complaining about not receiiving his money after he killed his patient.

Oh come on. I might have missed it, I have been gone, but can you name one person on this board who has called Dr. Murray a hero????

[Firehead11]

You are one of the ones that can see both sides and believe that this doctor should get punished in some way. There are others who believe that doctor murray did nothing wrong. To me when someone can't do anything wrong then someone thinks he is a hero.

I admit that Jackson contributed to his death and paid the price of his choices. So I am not one who believes that Jackson has no blame in this matter. How many on here do you see that think that all murray did was a malpractice issue. Every excuse is being made for the man. He didn't have the right medical equipment because:

1. Jackson wanted it a secret and didn't want any purchased and brought into the house. OR
2. Murray was broke and couldn't afford to have the proper eqiupment available to him. OR
3. Murray was only doing what Jackson wanted.

And no one has answered my question... where did we hear that Jackson was receiving the propofol for 6 weeks? The ONLY place I saw it mentioned is on the search warrant application. Murray supposely told LE that he was giving Jackson this drug for a long period of time. He supposely stated this on June 27 when he was interviewed by LE.
And if am reading this correctly, Murray DID NOT talk to police on the 25th which has been stated over and over again by some. On the 25th he spoke with LAFD and with Dr. Cooper at the hospital.

IMO IMO IMO

[Roxxanne]

Supposed to play at midnight tonight, but a snippet has been leaked;

Here it is on TMZ:
http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/11/michael-jackson-this-is-it-song/#comments

[LadyFuzz]

I doubt that will be a viable defense for killing Michael Jackson at trial.

I think the jury will find that interesting. jmo

[EvilEyeBall]

Supposed to play at midnight tonight, but a snippet has been leaked;

Here it is on TMZ:
http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/11/michael-jackson-this-is-it-song/#comments

Yeah..."leaked"...snicker.....Just like the concert was for ten shows!.........eyeroll.......

It's called marketing and creating interest and manufacturing news. imo

[Roxxanne]

I think the jury will find that interesting. jmo

What do you mean a jury will find it interesting? That whole thing about the equipment was someones opinion, not a fact. IMO

[flipflop]

Supposed to play at midnight tonight, but a snippet has been leaked;

Here it is on TMZ:
http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/11/michael-jackson-this-is-it-song/#comments

I think it sounds great. Thanks for posting this.

[Roxxanne]

I think it sounds great. Thanks for posting this.


You're welcome. I thought some posters would like to hear it. I can't wait to hear the whole song and see the movie.

[GentleBreeze]

Supposed to play at midnight tonight, but a snippet has been leaked;

Here it is on TMZ:
http://www.tmz.com/2009/10/11/michael-jackson-this-is-it-song/#comments

Thanks.:thumbsup:

MJs children are going to have more money than they will ever be able to spend in their lifetime.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/et-cetera/MJs-kids-hit-5-bn-jackpot/articleshow/5113716.cms


MJ’s kids hit 5 Billion jackpot

LONDON: Late singer Michael Jackson’s kids are likely to inherit more money than their father ever had in the bank, say analysts from America’s Forbes magazine.

With the fan frenzy following the ‘Thriller’ hitmaker’s death, Jackson’s three kids Prince, 12, Paris, 11, and Blanket, 7, have hit a jackpot of $5 billion. Jackson’s spendthrift lifestyle ended up with debts of $400 million.

“I don’t think they’ll ever have to work a day in their lives,” the Daily Star quoted Matthew Miller, senior editor at Forbes, as telling E! Entertainment in a programme Michael Jackson: Where’s The Money? A new TV documentary will reveal only 20% of the songs recorded by the King of Pop have ever been released.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26190665-421,00.html

Michael Jackson memorabilia found in Aussie fraud raid

MICHAEL Jackson memorabilia has been discovered during a raid on a Sydney office that was conducted as part of a multi-million dollar fraud investigation.

The haul allegedly included two fedora-style hats autographed by Jackson, as well as 600 pieces of jewellery and cosmetics.

Expensive champagne was also found among about 40 boxes in the Kent St office of a multi-national finance company, not yet named by police.

Police said they later discovered the goods were part of an elaborate fraud scheme in which more than $20 million was allegedly stolen from the company and used to buy real estate, diamonds and other investment items.

Inquiries have also led police to a paid order for a guitar, once owned by the late pop star.

A 40-year-old female accounts manager from Castle Hill was arrested and charged with seven offences relating to a series of fraudulent fund transfers.

[LadyFuzz]

Even if he had the proper equipment, he still left the patient alone, and in doing so... allowed him to die.

No he didn't. imo

[LadyFuzz]

I guess I am looking at this rather rationally (knowing the drug..knowing the risks..knowing what safeguards are needed)..If I was to hire someone wo do a job.....I would expect them to either stipulate what equipment they required to do the job..or other side..the contracted individual would obtain the prequisite equipment needed..it all comes down to Dr. Murray to know what he needed in order to do the job..not MJ...So..who's at fault?..MJ or Dr. Murray?..Food for thought??

LMS

I think MJ is at fault. He was the one with the money to buy the equipment and obviously didn't think he needed it. He knew how dangerous the drug was. He got the equipment when the other doctor shot him up with his favorite hallucinogenic. I think Murray asked for the equipment and Jackson didn't want it delievered to his house for secrecy reasons.

JMO

[LadyFuzz]

According to the reports... yes he did, and admitted to it. Then there's that 47 minutes of cell phone chat, before 911 was called.
:sad:

He didn't find Jackson not breathing at 11:00 AM. The phone calls were made from Jackson's room while he was alive. imo

[LadyFuzz]

Thanks.:thumbsup:

MJs children are going to have more money than they will ever be able to spend in their lifetime.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/news-by-industry/et-cetera/MJs-kids-hit-5-bn-jackpot/articleshow/5113716.cms


MJ’s kids hit 5 Billion jackpot

LONDON: Late singer Michael Jackson’s kids are likely to inherit more money than their father ever had in the bank, say analysts from America’s Forbes magazine.

With the fan frenzy following the ‘Thriller’ hitmaker’s death, Jackson’s three kids Prince, 12, Paris, 11, and Blanket, 7, have hit a jackpot of $5 billion. Jackson’s spendthrift lifestyle ended up with debts of $400 million.

“I don’t think they’ll ever have to work a day in their lives,” the Daily Star quoted Matthew Miller, senior editor at Forbes, as telling E! Entertainment in a programme Michael Jackson: Where’s The Money? A new TV documentary will reveal only 20% of the songs recorded by the King of Pop have ever been released.

imo

Well, I hope with all that money they will make sure that poor little dog gets the money needed instead of them just asking for donations.


jmo

[GentleBreeze]

Bet the kids would trade all that material nothingness for a sober father and a mother they could name. :shrug:

I think they would give up all of their worldly possessions if they could have the father, they loved deeply, back with them again.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Thats great for them, but I hope being rich won't stop them from being productive.

I don't expect it will. I think they are very grounded children who have goals in mind. It wouldn't surprise me if we see some of them or all of them in the entertainment business one day.

It is nice to see that they have their father's kind soul. I know they will enjoy caring for the little dog that needed someone to care about it.
I think they will be big contributors to humanitarian efforts.

imo

[LadyFuzz]

Thats not what happened, but if it makes you feel better to think that, then go for it.

Link please to your statement.

[LadyFuzz]

No.. You link to your statement, that Michael refused to buy necessary medical equipment, in order to keep it a secret.

No, I put it was in my opinion as per TOS. You did not, so it is a statement which needs a link. Were you lying when you posted that?

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I think its more of a respose to all those who insisted that Michael left the children destitute.

LOL! I don't know who would have believed that in the first place.

And these children are not all alone by any means, they have their father's family and from the Judge's statement they are doing remarkably well with their grandmother. And they are constantly around friends and their extended family also.

I am so happy for them.


imo

[LadyFuzz]

Oh my goodnes..My first paragraph leaves something to be desired...Yikes.I have a sticky keyboard..and was called away before I could preview..My apology..That first paragraph was my impression of some who believe Conrad wass such a scholar, and upstanding physician..thus whatever he did was "Gold" also whatever he said is "Gold"..althought in the next breath they say he is a sleeze..money hungry bought guy who would do whatever asked...I guess..I get confused by the spins....LOL

He (Conrad) WAS a well regarded Specialist....up and until he got hired by MJ...and it seems all his acolades were for not..He failed miserably!!
Like any Contracted professional..parameters have to be met..or the job doesnt get done..and no amount of money would or should compromise your ethical responsibilities...MJ wanted someone to feed him his milk...it was the feeder of that milk who is responsible to know how to feed it!!

LMS:laugh:

So you're saying he didn't need the equipment anyway? He should have just known how to feed it?

[LadyFuzz]

Their father was a good, loving, gentle, generous, and honorable man. I think they have already shown some of his wonderful qualities in themselves. They had a father who's goal in life was to love and be loved, to bring peace and joy to the entire world. We should wish that quality on all children, everywhere.

Please, bite your tongue. We don't need children everywhere growing up to be hallucinogenic addicts just like Jackson.

my opinion of course

[LadyFuzz]

You need to re-read TOS.

I'm waiting for the link.

[warhorse46]

Their father was a good, loving, gentle, generous, and honorable man. I think they have already shown some of his wonderful qualities in themselves. They had a father who's goal in life was to love and be loved, to bring peace and joy to the entire world. We should wish that quality on all children, everywhere.


I disagree with your statement. Yes MJ did some good things in his life & he gave to charities (but remember those donations were tax deductable). He may have loved his children but IMO he loved the drugs more. I think his goal in life was obtaining the drugs he so craved. Had he loved his children more than the drugs he would have made efforts to get off them & get his life straight so he could be the father he claimed to have never had. I hope his children will learn from his mistakes & not repeat the cycle.

[warhorse46]

It should be no surprise that I don't see MJ in the same light as you do. I have the ability to see the good in him, you seem to see only the bad or perceived bad. He did a lot of good in his life, not just bad.

Nobody is all good nor all bad, we are all, including MJ, a mixture of both. Some have more good than bad & some have more bad than good.

[warhorse46]

I am not really sure of the drugs you speak of since the only drugs found at the time of autopsy were those given to him by Murray. I don't think addicts "love" the drugs more than their families. They are addicted to the drugs.

It seems what MJ may have been addicted to around the time of his death was the diprivan which he used as a sleep aide. I don't see how a drug he used as a sleep aide that supposedly does not leave the person groggy or stoned out would affect his behavior when he was around his children.

Murray was to have given the diprvan for six weeks straight and then Murray says he is worried that MJ is becoming addicted to the diprivan. That makes me think before then MJ had used this drug intermittently in the past and wasn't addicted to the drug until Murray started administering it to him on a daily basis for six weeks.

I think those who give to humanitarian charities do so because they really feel a need to help contribute to the people in need all across the world. A tax break certainly wouldn't be even close to the amount given away.

imo



Many many people close to MJ have spoken publicly about his drug abuse for it not to be true. Elizabeth Taylor even got him in a rehab center but he checked himself out within a very short tiime. She has spoken in interviews about this even recently. And I could tell he was high during his trial on child abuse charges. I have seen too many people who were high not to recognize it when I see it.