10/6,10/7

[hello its me]

Wasn't the state present at the GJ testimony?

Yes, Ashton says his recollection of George's testimony is materially different from what he said in his depo. Ashton must have been there. He wants to check his memory against the written transcript. Judge said he can. YAY! One step closer to justice for Caylee.

[Pam1569]

i guess the defense filed another motion today to back up their claims about having the death penalty first degree murder and aggravated child abuse accounts all thrown out it is here in this article

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-grand-jury-100609,0,07743670.story

says they can't prove Caylee was murdered by the states evidence and Medical Examiner there is something about 2 statements casey made to one IN WHICH SHE LIED!!!!!

Good evening neid :seeya:
TY for the link and the following info. But if this is all the defense has it isn't going to fly in the court room. jmo

[Pam1569]

Wasn't the state present at the GJ testimony?

Evening seeing, Yes the SA's office was present when the GJ was in session. I remember seeing LDB heading in to the court house and not making any comments on the way in.

[denjet]

she forgot a few:

I did tell law enforcement I worked at Universal.
I did tell law enforcement I reported my phone missing to Security.
I did tell law enforcement I talked with my daughter just today on the phone.
I did tell law enforcement I had been searching for my daughter for 31 days.

and on and on and on.
LOL, Bett boy oh boy that Baez and KC are pretty slick, huh?

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."
What happened to the 31 days? That was conveniently omitted ... She NEVER reported her missing, her mother did!!

"I did tell law enforcement that I had dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez when questioned by law enforcement."
Conveniently left out where she dropped her off ... so she didn't have to say the different places she told them ... and am I missing something ... we KNOW what she told LE but their investigation has not been able to find ANY information about Zenaida or anything tangible that proves she exists ...
I have a feeling Ashton's getting a good chuckle over this if in fact an ammendment was even files ... seems the press got the news before the clerk !!

[Pam1569]

From WFTV's site:

MORE DOCS EXPECTED TO BE RELEASED
Also this week, the state is expected to release more documents in the case.
Eyewitness News has learned they are releasing every document the state has received to date. That's a total of 10,400 pages.

Yippee! :w00t:

Hi den, Can you tell I am reading past pages. LOL Ok So the State is going to release everything that they have given the defense already. I guess this means that all the hundreds of pages that we have missing is finally come to light. Maybe even let us know why the DP was put back on the table on April 13th.
By the way I do believe we all have to thank for these docs being released is Brad Conway. If he hadn't by past the clerk's office and their schedule then this would not be happening imo. Bravo BC :thumbup:

Back fires are a good thing!

[Pam1569]

LOL, Bett boy oh boy that Baez and KC are pretty slick, huh?

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."
What happened to the 31 days? That was conveniently omitted ... She NEVER reported her missing, her mother did!!

"I did tell law enforcement that I had dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez when questioned by law enforcement."
Conveniently left out where she dropped her off ... so she didn't have to say the different places she told them ... and am I missing something ... we KNOW what she told LE but their investigation has not been able to find ANY information about Zenaida or anything tangible that proves she exists ...
I have a feeling Ashton's getting a good chuckle over this if in fact an ammendment was even files ... seems the press got the news before the clerk !!

Hi den :seeya:
On the first bolding. These are thing that she can swear to, because after all the 911 tape from her mother is going to be used against her in court.
On the second bolding. This is another statement that she can say a swear to but nicely leave out which theory she has given or her parents to which is the truth so her lawyers may run with it. jmo

[need2no]

Hi den, Can you tell I am reading past pages. LOL Ok So the State is going to release everything that they have given the defense already. I guess this means that all the hundreds of pages that we have missing is finally come to light. Maybe even let us know why the DP was put back on the table on April 13th.
By the way I do believe we all have to thank for these docs being released is Brad Conway. If he hadn't by past the clerk's office and their schedule then this would not be happening imo. Bravo BC :thumbup:

Back fires are a good thing!

I hope they post the info in a manner where we can readily locate the new stuff.

Yes, we do owe Brad Conway a big round of thanks. :tonguewag:

I wonder if the Anthony's will fire their pro bono attorney for causing 'all this mess'.

[crimeq]

You know JB already has seen these documents.
I wonder if this explains why he changed his "she is innocent" to "its up to Casey if she wants to accept a Pea" (or something close to that) he told Geraldo.
Maybe he knows what these documents will contain.

Good point Julie -- it was a strange statement for Jose to make, IMO. Totally unlike everything that's come before.

If he knows what's in those docs that's incriminating, plus he expects Judge S to smack down the motions showing that "we mean business", maybe he doesn't have too much leverage or wiggle room.

[need2no]

Good point Julie -- it was a strange statement for Jose to make, IMO. Totally unlike everything that's come before.

If he knows what's in those docs that's incriminating, plus he expects Judge S to smack down the motions showing that "we mean business", maybe he doesn't have too much leverage or wiggle room.


Motion Granted To Review George Anthony's Testimony

Prosecutors want to look at his testimony because they are looking for inconsistencies between the statements George Anthony gave on Oct. 14 of last year and the sworn deposition he gave two months ago.


Prosecutor Jeff Ashton said he will share the testimony with Casey Anthony's defense team.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21219043/detail.html


I guess all the defense team knows about George's GJ testimony is what George told them. Should be interesting to find out if George 'shared' all with Baez.

[frances1]

Hi den :seeya:
On the first bolding. These are thing that she can swear to, because after all the 911 tape from her mother is going to be used against her in court.
On the second bolding. This is another statement that she can say a swear to but nicely leave out which theory she has given or her parents to which is the truth so her lawyers may run with it. jmo

I guess I must be really dense, because I don't understand how her swearing to these two statements will help the defense. Also, if she were to sweat to these things, wouldn't that mean she was going to testify, which she probably is not going to do. What am I missing here?

[denjet]

Hi den, Can you tell I am reading past pages. LOL Ok So the State is going to release everything that they have given the defense already. I guess this means that all the hundreds of pages that we have missing is finally come to light. Maybe even let us know why the DP was put back on the table on April 13th.
By the way I do believe we all have to thank for these docs being released is Brad Conway. If he hadn't by past the clerk's office and their schedule then this would not be happening imo. Bravo BC :thumbup:

Back fires are a good thing!

Hi Pam :seeya:
Let's hope we see those missing pages ... that's what I can't wait to see ... I think you're right on target about Brad ... not only did he not do a very convincing job at his presser ... he opened a whole big can of worms !! Way to go Bradley !! :tonguewag:

[denjet]

I guess I must be really dense, because I don't understand how her swearing to these two statements will help the defense. Also, if she were to sweat to these things, wouldn't that mean she was going to testify, which she probably is not going to do. What am I missing here?
Hi frances! I'm equally confused .... I think a lot of people are going HUH? I'm going to wait to see this so called amendment ... I'm not even sure if this is just a PR ploy ... I guess Baez notified the press about this new amendment but it's not filed with the clerk ?? It set my hinky meter off ...
Hopefully one of the TH legal analyst can shed some light on this latest stunt (and I think that's all it is) ..:shrug:

[CelticDawn]

LOL, Bett boy oh boy that Baez and KC are pretty slick, huh?

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."
What happened to the 31 days? That was conveniently omitted ... She NEVER reported her missing, her mother did!!

"I did tell law enforcement that I had dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez when questioned by law enforcement."
Conveniently left out where she dropped her off ... so she didn't have to say the different places she told them ... and am I missing something ... we KNOW what she told LE but their investigation has not been able to find ANY information about Zenaida or anything tangible that proves she exists ...
I have a feeling Ashton's getting a good chuckle over this if in fact an ammendment was even files ... seems the press got the news before the clerk !!

????????



Oh My


I TOLD LAW ENFORCEMENT

Lie #1....

....lie#5,000...


"because THEY wouldn't listen to me....THEY wouldn't let me talk"

[need2no]

????????



Oh My


I TOLD LAW ENFORCEMENT

Lie #1....

....lie#5,000...


"because THEY wouldn't listen to me....THEY wouldn't let me talk"

So how did LE misconstrue everything casey said if they didn't listen to her.


Poor casey...like Dr. Pepper, so misunderstood.....


"Because nobody is (expletive) listening to anything that I'm saying," Casey Anthony said. "The media misconstrued everything that I said. The (expletive) detectives pulled (expletive) (expletive). They got all of their information from me but at the same time they are twisting stuff. They already said they are going to pin this on me if they don't find Caylee. They've already said that. They arrested me because they said..." They found Caylee, and they STILL 'pinned' it on you casey.

They have not listened to a (expletive) thing that I've said." Never fear casey, they listened, bless their hearts.

"I know, nobody is going to get away with it but at the same time, the only way they are going to find Caylee is if they actually listen to what I'm saying and I'm trying to help them and they are not letting me help them." Wrong, they found her without any assistance from you.

[Chardonnay]

So how did LE misconstrue everything casey said if they didn't listen to her.


Poor casey...like Dr. Pepper, so misunderstood.....


"Because nobody is (expletive) listening to anything that I'm saying," Casey Anthony said. "The media misconstrued everything that I said. The (expletive) detectives pulled (expletive) (expletive). They got all of their information from me but at the same time they are twisting stuff. They already said they are going to pin this on me if they don't find Caylee. They've already said that. They arrested me because they said..." They found Caylee, and they STILL 'pinned' it on you casey.

They have not listened to a (expletive) thing that I've said." Never fear casey, they listened, bless their hearts.

"I know, nobody is going to get away with it but at the same time, the only way they are going to find Caylee is if they actually listen to what I'm saying and I'm trying to help them and they are not letting me help them." Wrong, they found her without any assistance from you.

Great post !!

[velvetbrown]

So how did LE misconstrue everything casey said if they didn't listen to her.


Poor casey...like Dr. Pepper, so misunderstood.....


"Because nobody is (expletive) listening to anything that I'm saying," Casey Anthony said. "The media misconstrued everything that I said. The (expletive) detectives pulled (expletive) (expletive). They got all of their information from me but at the same time they are twisting stuff. They already said they are going to pin this on me if they don't find Caylee. They've already said that. They arrested me because they said..." They found Caylee, and they STILL 'pinned' it on you casey.

They have not listened to a (expletive) thing that I've said." Never fear casey, they listened, bless their hearts.

"I know, nobody is going to get away with it but at the same time, the only way they are going to find Caylee is if they actually listen to what I'm saying and I'm trying to help them and they are not letting me help them." Wrong, they found her without any assistance from you.

Well done, n2n!

[summer]

This is hysterical. I hope it's OK to post it here (from a WFTV commenter). Snipped:

"...Has anyone noticed that the day Casey was arrested that a lot of people seemed to vanish into thin air? I mean the way I see it the following people just stopped being on this planet when Casey was arrested:

1. Zani The Nanny
2. Zani's Mother
3. Rachael (Zanni's roommates)
4. Juliet Lewis (outcry person at Universal)
5. Jeffrey Michael Hopkins (outcry person at Universal)
6. Nurse who found wound behind Zani's ear at hospital
7. Doctors who examined Zani at hospital after accident
8. Entire Hospital Staff who were there when Zani was brought to the hospital
9. Zachary (Jeffey Micheal Hopkins kid)
10. Ambulance driver who took Zani to hospital
11. Donale Johnson (orderly who brought Zani her dinner in the room)
12. Shequanda (orderly who picked up empty food tray in Zani's room)
13. Officer Jake (officer who took report of accident)
14. Entire hotel staff at Hard Rock where Zani and Casey stayed
15. Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales (the Ten)

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few missing people...can anyone add to the list?"

Oct. 6, 2009 9:33pm EDT | from kameronJ

[summer]

Bermuda Triangles?

Ha ha, I am just ROFL. Anyway, night all! :seeya:

[CelticDawn]

So how did LE misconstrue everything casey said if they didn't listen to her.


Poor casey...like Dr. Pepper, so misunderstood.....


"Because nobody is (expletive) listening to anything that I'm saying," Casey Anthony said. "The media misconstrued everything that I said. The (expletive) detectives pulled (expletive) (expletive). They got all of their information from me but at the same time they are twisting stuff. They already said they are going to pin this on me if they don't find Caylee. They've already said that. They arrested me because they said..." They found Caylee, and they STILL 'pinned' it on you casey.

They have not listened to a (expletive) thing that I've said." Never fear casey, they listened, bless their hearts.

"I know, nobody is going to get away with it but at the same time, the only way they are going to find Caylee is if they actually listen to what I'm saying and I'm trying to help them and they are not letting me help them." Wrong, they found her without any assistance from you.

That could be a part of the prosecutions closing argument!


You hit the nail on the head....


Actually, this drives quite a few nails into the defenses coffin.

[adair]

i guess the defense filed another motion today to back up their claims about having the death penalty first degree murder and aggravated child abuse accounts all thrown out it is here in this article

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-grand-jury-100609,0,07743670.story

says they can't prove Caylee was murdered by the states evidence and Medical Examiner there is something about 2 statements casey made to one IN WHICH SHE LIED!!!!!


From the link above


Cough~Cough


Her attorneys Jose Baez and Andrea Lyon point out again that Caylee's "cause of death is not known and that the prosecution's evidence cannot satisfy the elements of first-degree murder."

They said their motion is based on law enforcement lab results and the Orange County Medical Examiner and Casey Anthony "cannot legally swear" to their findings.

[charmin 66]

This is hysterical. I hope it's OK to post it here (from a WFTV commenter). Snipped:

"...Has anyone noticed that the day Casey was arrested that a lot of people seemed to vanish into thin air? I mean the way I see it the following people just stopped being on this planet when Casey was arrested:

1. Zani The Nanny
2. Zani's Mother
3. Rachael (Zanni's roommates)
4. Juliet Lewis (outcry person at Universal)
5. Jeffrey Michael Hopkins (outcry person at Universal)
6. Nurse who found wound behind Zani's ear at hospital
7. Doctors who examined Zani at hospital after accident
8. Entire Hospital Staff who were there when Zani was brought to the hospital
9. Zachary (Jeffey Micheal Hopkins kid)
10. Ambulance driver who took Zani to hospital
11. Donale Johnson (orderly who brought Zani her dinner in the room)
12. Shequanda (orderly who picked up empty food tray in Zani's room)
13. Officer Jake (officer who took report of accident)
14. Entire hotel staff at Hard Rock where Zani and Casey stayed
15. Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales (the Ten)

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few missing people...can anyone add to the list?"

Oct. 6, 2009 9:33pm EDT | from kameronJ

Two guys who pushed Casey's car into Amscot parking lot when she ran out of gas

[Darcy]

Notice she say dropped of my child with a person named ZFG...but she does not say where...Sawgrass or BP...




Hey there Armadillo, she also said 'dropped off' not kidnapped or taken by force. I guess she needs to keep her options open :confused:

[Sun]

Good morning everyone! Here is some of the news from yesterday. The State had their motion approved to get a copy of George's GJ testimony. I'm wondering how Casey is feeling about this? Remember in that Oct 14th jail video, where she questioned the FBI agent in regards to how she thought that "the GJ proceedings were to be kept secret." Perhaps a big blow to her defense, as now George cannot just "easily" change his testimony from what he said to the GJ back in Oct 2008.


http://www.wftv.com/news/21218784/detail.html

A judge ordered Tuesday that the grand jury testimony George Anthony gave in October 2008 be handed over to state prosecutors in the case against Casey Anthony. (note: the defense did not get a copy)

Also this week, the state is expected to release more documents in the case. (YES.....another doc dump!!!!)

[Sun]

Here are the latest entries on the Clerk of Courts records.

10/6/2009 A ADDENDUM TO MOTION TO DISMISS COUNTS I AND II OF THE INDICTMENT AGAINST CASEY MARIE ANTHONY
10/6/2009 A REPLY TO DEFENDANT'S RESPONSE TO MOTION FOR TRANSCRIPTION OF GRAND JURY TESTIMONY

[Sun]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-grand-jury-100609,0,07743670.story

Late Tuesday, Casey Anthony's defense team filed an addendum to its motion to dismiss the first-degree murder and aggravated child abuse charges against her. According to this article, Casey Anthony did sign a document, swearing to two statements:

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."

"I did tell law enforcement that I had dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez when questioned by law enforcement."

[ClimbingRose]

That could be a part of the prosecutions closing argument!


You hit the nail on the head....


Actually, this drives quite a few nails into the defenses coffin.



Ms. CD,

Would you care to use my hammer?:wub:

ClimbingRose

[cassidy]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-grand-jury-100609,0,07743670.story

Late Tuesday, Casey Anthony's defense team filed an addendum to its motion to dismiss the first-degree murder and aggravated child abuse charges against her. According to this article, Casey Anthony did sign a document, swearing to two statements:

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."

"I did tell law enforcement that I had dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez when questioned by law enforcement."

Note that she stated "dropped off my child" not that her child was physically removed from her. that blows her kidnapping in Blanchard Park tale.

JMO

[hello its me]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-grand-jury-100609,0,07743670.story

Late Tuesday, Casey Anthony's defense team filed an addendum to its motion to dismiss the first-degree murder and aggravated child abuse charges against her. According to this article, Casey Anthony did sign a document, swearing to two statements:

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."

"I did tell law enforcement that I had dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez when questioned by law enforcement."

It took many days of burning the midnight oil...for this? :tongue:

[Sun]

Note that she stated "dropped off my child" not that her child was physically removed from her. that blows her kidnapping in Blanchard Park tale.

JMO

Good morning Cassidy! Maybe it's just me, but I found her wording of this statement to be a bit odd. And, what do these statements really add to the motion anyway? I am completely confused as to how the defense would believe that these statements would help in any way to get their motion approved. :confused:


"I did tell law enforcement that I had dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez when questioned by law enforcement."

[Sun]

It took many days of burning the midnight oil...for this? :tongue:

I'm hoping one of the media will make this addemdum to the defense's motion (with Casey's sworn statements) available online this morning. I'd like to read it.

[Sun]

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."

Interesting that Casey thought it an important fact to point out that it was her "mother" that called. Is this Casey's way of telling Cindy that "this is all her fault?"

[Lavinya]

Excuse me???

This week the state is going to release the rest of the documents that have NOT been previously released to the public, bringing the total to over 10K pages.

[JadedPoet]

Am I getting this right? The response from LDB calling the defense's motion to dismiss the charges essentially a legal mess said in part that Casey would have to agree to the facts of the case but prove to the court that even then, they can't prove it was her who committed the crime. Is this the defense's way of adding on, "Oh yeah, Casey agrees to these basic facts"? :blink: If not, I don't get it.

[LadyHam]

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."

Interesting that Casey thought it an important fact to point out that it was her "mother" that called. Is this Casey's way of telling Cindy that "this is all her fault?"

I think it is important to point out that the bolded statement is still not true. Casey never reported Caylee missing, Cindy did. The above statement should have read something like 'My daughter, Caylee, was not reported missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008'.

I fail to see how this new addendum filed by the defense is going to help the motion. :shrug:

[BettyC]

I think it is important to point out that the bolded statement is still not true. Casey never reported Caylee missing, Cindy did. The above statement should have read something like 'My daughter, Caylee, was not reported missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008'.

I fail to see how this new addendum filed by the defense is going to help the motion. :shrug:

I don't either. I certainly hope that Ms. Lyon has read Casey's "complete" statement.


http://investigation.discovery.com/blogs/criminal-report/casey_anthony_full_coverage/files/casey_anthony_documents01.pdf

Pages 31,32,33,34.

Lots more lies there. In fact, I don't see one truthful statement, including the dates. This IS a sworn statement (Scampi was asking about that yesterday.)

Note at the bottom of each page, she checked off "willing to testify in court and willing to prosecute." Reminds me of George and his gas cans.

[LadyHam]

Am I getting this right? The response from LDB calling the defense's motion to dismiss the charges essentially a legal mess said in part that Casey would have to agree to the facts of the case but prove to the court that even then, they can't prove it was her who committed the crime. Is this the defense's way of adding on, "Oh yeah, Casey agrees to these basic facts"? :blink: If not, I don't get it.

Bolding by me....

I think that's where most of us are at right now. I don't get it either and I don't understand how the defense thinks their latest addendum is going to help in getting the motion granted. The 1st degree murder charge is not going to be dismissed. Take it to trial. If the jury feels the evidence is not there to to support a 1st degree murder charge, then she will not be convicted on that count. I think the defense knows that she will be convicted though and right now they are just grasping at straws.

[Sun]

I think it is important to point out that the bolded statement is still not true. Casey never reported Caylee missing, Cindy did. The above statement should have read something like 'My daughter, Caylee, was not reported missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008'.

I fail to see how this new addendum filed by the defense is going to help the motion. :shrug:

I'm scratching my head. I don't understand this either. I guess we may have to wait until the court hearing on Oct 16th, so that the defense can try explain it to the Judge.

[Scampi]

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."

Interesting that Casey thought it an important fact to point out that it was her "mother" that called. Is this Casey's way of telling Cindy that "this is all her fault?"

Morning Sun and everyone. It's still a very misleading statement because it fails to mention the prior 911 calls that were made by cynthia because she was concerned about the car. It wasn't until the very last one that she appeared to get hysterical and mentions Caylee.

If any of the defendant's statements are played I hope the one where she whines "why do they want to talk to me?" referring to the 911 operator, is played for this jury.

When I think of all the circumstances it just makes my blood boil. :cuss:

[Sun]

Morning Sun and everyone. It's still a very misleading statement because it fails to mention the prior 911 calls that were made by cynthia because she was concerned about the car. It wasn't until the very last one that she appeared to get hysterical and mentions Caylee.

If any of the defendant's statements are played I hope the one where she whines "why do they want to talk to me?" referring to the 911 operator, is played for this jury.

When I think of all the circumstances it just makes my blood boil. :cuss:

Good morning Scampi. I sure hope that these two statements aren't a portion of the "compelling reasons" that Baez says we'll hear at the trial.

[hello its me]

Morning Sun and everyone. It's still a very misleading statement because it fails to mention the prior 911 calls that were made by cynthia because she was concerned about the car. It wasn't until the very last one that she appeared to get hysterical and mentions Caylee.

If any of the defendant's statements are played I hope the one where she whines "why do they want to talk to me?" referring to the 911 operator, is played for this jury.

When I think of all the circumstances it just makes my blood boil. :cuss:

bold by me. So true, Scampi. THAT is as close as Casey came to *reporting* her daughter missing.

[Pruddennce]

I think it is important to point out that the bolded statement is still not true. Casey never reported Caylee missing, Cindy did. The above statement should have read something like 'My daughter, Caylee, was not reported missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008'.

I fail to see how this new addendum filed by the defense is going to help the motion. :shrug:

it isnt LadyH......LDB responded that she is 'guessing' which Rule of Procedure they are basing their motion on. simply put, the defense's motion is a mess:

"Although Miss Anthony's motion to dismiss does not specifically move for dismissal under any particular rule of procedure, it appears she was inartfully attempting to ask......"

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[Kathlb]

The response to the Def.'s wanting to have the Grand Jury transcripts also is listed above? Does anyone know what the judge ruled concerning the Defense having them also?

[need2no]

WKMG's Tony Pipitone said, "Prosecutors today effectively tried to take the defense team to school -- law school, pointing out rules in effect for 41 years in Florida require Casey Anthony to face trial except under very limited circumstances."

Pipitone added: "And this, they say, is not one of those circumstances."
The defense's motion does not contain a sworn statement from Anthony, Pipitone explained. Prosecutors have asked Judge Stan Strickland not even to consider the defense motion.


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/10/casey-anthony-wftv-asks-if-jose-baez-signals-shift-in-defense.html

So....now the defense has included the 2 sworn statements by casey.

[need2no]

The response to the Def.'s wanting to have the Grand Jury transcripts also is listed above? Does anyone know what the judge ruled concerning the Defense having them also?

I don't have the link handy, but Ashton was quoted as saying he will provide a copy of the GJ testimony to the defense.

[Lavinya]

If Casey claims she was protecting the family from rogue murderers/kidnappers, (or thought she was) why didn't she break down with Cindy and beg her not to call 911? Why not, "NO MOM! We're in *danger*! We could get killed or they could kill Caylee.", instead of her little teed-off mood? Why not tell LE right off the bat that they need some kind of protection from the invis-a-nanny?

[Sun]

The response to the Def.'s wanting to have the Grand Jury transcripts also is listed above? Does anyone know what the judge ruled concerning the Defense having them also?

The Judge only ordered the transcript to be turned over to the State. I would think that if the defense wanted a copy for themselves, they would have to file a motion, and provide specific reasons as to why they would be entitled to get a transcript (just like the State successfully did).

[Sun]

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Casey's%20Sworn%20Affidavit%20March%2010.pdf

Does everyone remember this sworn/signed affidavit by Casey? The one that included the handwritten statement penciled in. (for a crime that I DID NOT COMMIT)

[LadyHam]

WKMG's Tony Pipitone said, "Prosecutors today effectively tried to take the defense team to school -- law school, pointing out rules in effect for 41 years in Florida require Casey Anthony to face trial except under very limited circumstances."

Pipitone added: "And this, they say, is not one of those circumstances."
The defense's motion does not contain a sworn statement from Anthony, Pipitone explained. Prosecutors have asked Judge Stan Strickland not even to consider the defense motion.


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/10/casey-anthony-wftv-asks-if-jose-baez-signals-shift-in-defense.html

So....now the defense has included the 2 sworn statements by casey.

Bolding by me....

I still don't see how they think this is going to help their motion. :shrug:

[sydney]

morning everyone!

so does this mean we'll get a copy of the gj testimony? (sorry if it's been asked and answered). i sure hope so.

[LadyHam]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/10/casey-anthony-.html

Casey Anthony: State will get to look for George's inconsistencies

Snipped from the article:

"The question is now: Did George try to somehow soften or change his testimony in August knowing that his daughter is, of course, facing the death penalty?" Kealing said.

[Jen]

WKMG's Tony Pipitone said, "Prosecutors today effectively tried to take the defense team to school -- law school, pointing out rules in effect for 41 years in Florida require Casey Anthony to face trial except under very limited circumstances."

Pipitone added: "And this, they say, is not one of those circumstances."
The defense's motion does not contain a sworn statement from Anthony, Pipitone explained. Prosecutors have asked Judge Stan Strickland not even to consider the defense motion.


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/10/casey-anthony-wftv-asks-if-jose-baez-signals-shift-in-defense.html

So....now the defense has included the 2 sworn statements by casey.


Gawd, I'm so confused :confused:

[need2no]

Bolding by me....

I still don't see how they think this is going to help their motion. :shrug:

Me either. It's like they just act and respond somehow or other without really thinking anything through or concerning themselves with whether or not something makes sense, or even further hurts their case. Geez, all these attorneys, yet they apparently didn't know they would have to provide a sworn statement when they filed the motion to dismiss. It seems to me they opened a can of worms.

Now granted, they have responded and provided the necessary sworn statement to prevent their motion from being tossed out of court, but the statement sure doesn't help casey's case. In fact just the opposite in my opinion. casey is admitting she was the last one seen with her daughter, and that her mother was the one who called 911 to report Caylee missing.

It's like saying ok, casey swore she was the last one with her daughter when she dropped her off, then 31 days later her mother reports Caylee is missing....now please Your Honor, drop the charges against my client.

~DENIED~

[sydney]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/10/casey-anthony-.html

Casey Anthony: State will get to look for George's inconsistencies

Snipped from the article:

"The question is now: Did George try to somehow soften or change his testimony in August knowing that his daughter is, of course, facing the death penalty?" Kealing said.

they haven't released the transcript of that depo, have they? if they have, could someone steer me in the right direction? if not, i would like to see that as well.

[Scampi]

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Casey's%20Sworn%20Affidavit%20March%2010.pdf

Does everyone remember this sworn/signed affidavit by Casey? The one that included the handwritten statement penciled in. (for a crime that I DID NOT COMMIT)


Yes, I remember that bit of spitefullness by anthony. I want to see that handwritten statement that she wrote in the first days of this, I swear we had it in one of the doc releases. I would assume that was under oath.

Plus, we have her on tape at Universal and Detective Melich gave he every opportunity to tell the truth. Surely that tape will be played for this jury.

[LadyHam]

they haven't released the transcript of that depo, have they? if they have, could someone steer me in the right direction? if not, i would like to see that as well.

No, they haven't released the deposition George gave the state. The only deposition that has been released is the one from the civil trial. I don't think the state has released any of the depositions that they have taken, and I don't think they are going to.

I hope the state can compare George's GJ testimony to both their deposition and the deposition he gave in the ZFG civil suit.

[need2no]

If Casey claims she was protecting the family from rogue murderers/kidnappers, (or thought she was) why didn't she break down with Cindy and beg her not to call 911? Why not, "NO MOM! We're in *danger*! We could get killed or they could kill Caylee.", instead of her little teed-off mood? Why not tell LE right off the bat that they need some kind of protection from the invis-a-nanny?

ITA, and casey sure didn't look frightened or even concerned in the least as she strutted and sashayed around. Heck, it didn't even appear she had any pepper spray shoved in the waist or pocket of those tight fitting jeans. :wink:

[Sun]

Me either. It's like they just act and respond somehow or other without really thinking anything through or concerning themselves with whether or not something makes sense, or even further hurts their case. Geez, all these attorneys, yet they apparently didn't know they would have to provide a sworn statement when they filed the motion to dismiss. It seems to me they opened a can of worms.

Now granted, they have responded and provided the necessary sworn statement to prevent their motion from being tossed out of court, but the statement sure doesn't help casey's case. In fact just the opposite in my opinion. casey is admitting she was the last one seen with her daughter, and that her mother was the one who called 911 to report Caylee missing.

It's like saying ok, casey swore she was the last one with her daughter when she dropped her off, then 31 days later her mother reports Caylee is missing....now please Your Honor, drop the charges against my client.

~DENIED~

At times, I just wonder if Casey is intent on saying that Cindy has framed her for Caylee's death. And, that Cindy was the last person that she saw Caylee with. ...I just have a feeling that Casey is still very, very angry with Cindy. Perhaps even more angry with the prosecution and LE/FBI.

[sydney]

No, they haven't released the deposition George gave the state. The only deposition that has been released is the one from the civil trial. I don't think the state has released any of the depositions that they have taken, and I don't think they are going to.

I hope the state can compare George's GJ testimony to both their deposition and the deposition he gave in the ZFG civil suit.

(bbm)
not sure they can do that because the two cases are unrelated. of course, i could be wrong. but that wouldn't stop US from doing it (heh heh)

[Scampi]

I am confused about these depositions and the video taped questioning of cynthia and george by the FBI and Detective Allen and Melich. Those were under oath also and as we know, lying to the FBI in a criminal matter is against the law.

I think both parents have skated very close to the edge here.

IIRC, cynthia even balked at signing her statements at one point..

[sydney]

At times, I just wonder if Casey is intent on saying that Cindy has framed her for Caylee's death. And, that Cindy was the last person that she saw Caylee with. ...I just have a feeling that Casey is still very, very angry with Cindy. Perhaps even more angry with the prosecution and LE/FBI.

if they wait until trial to do this, that is another "defense" that will not fly. as far as i've seen, there is no evidence pointing at cindy at all. no a shred of evidence pointing to anyone else, either.

now, cindy being involved in the post 911 call coverup (the car smells like there's been a da** dead body in it)? possibly.

[Sun]

(bbm)
not sure they can do that because the two cases are unrelated. of course, i could be wrong. but that wouldn't stop US from doing it (heh heh)

Sydney, we won't be getting access to George's GJ testimony. At least I don't think so. In the Sunshine Law, it specifically mentions that GJ testimony is exempt from the Sunshine Law.

[Scampi]

(bbm)
not sure they can do that because the two cases are unrelated. of course, i could be wrong. but that wouldn't stop US from doing it (heh heh)

I agree Syd, the State is not going to get involved in the civil matter, but John Morgan is very much getting involved with every statement under oath that these parents have made in the murder trial, imo.

[LadyHam]

If Casey claims she was protecting the family from rogue murderers/kidnappers, (or thought she was) why didn't she break down with Cindy and beg her not to call 911? Why not, "NO MOM! We're in *danger*! We could get killed or they could kill Caylee.", instead of her little teed-off mood? Why not tell LE right off the bat that they need some kind of protection from the invis-a-nanny?

Bolding by me....

Simply put, because she didn't think of it at the time. Casey's lies revolving around Caylee's kidnapping were still evolving at the time. It wasn't part of the "script".... yet.

[sydney]

Sydney, we won't be getting access to George's GJ testimony. At least I don't think so. In the Sunshine Law, it specifically mentions that GJ testimony is exempt from the Sunshine Law.

rats. that just ruined my day.

[need2no]

At times, I just wonder if Casey is intent on saying that Cindy has framed her for Caylee's death. And, that Cindy was the last person that she saw Caylee with. ...I just have a feeling that Casey is still very, very angry with Cindy. Perhaps even more angry with the prosecution and LE/FBI.

No doubt casey is angry, and blaming everybody except herself for the mess she is in, and wouldn't hesitate to have someone else take her place in jail.

I also question if the defense team is going to try to throw Cindy under the bus, but the 2 sworn statements would 'seem' to prevent this from being attempted. Unless of course they say casey only wrote those sworn statements because she was under duress and following the script.

The best I can make out of this right now is they are going to stick with the unidentified Zenaida took Caylee story, and casey tried to investigate to find her without involving LE because she didn't trust them. Which IMO is ludicrous.

[Scampi]

I agree, the script nonsense did not appear until casey and cynthia anthony put their heads together to come up with a fairytale they thought they could advanced. They did an awful job, imo. No jury is going to buy it.

[Pruddennce]

Yes, I remember that bit of spitefullness by anthony. I want to see that handwritten statement that she wrote in the first days of this, I swear we had it in one of the doc releases. I would assume that was under oath.

Plus, we have her on tape at Universal and Detective Melich gave he every opportunity to tell the truth. Surely that tape will be played for this jury.

yes, she swore to it:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1473802/Statement---Casey-Anthony-Written-2008-0715

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[Scampi]

Wasn't it the FBI video interview where she had a fit because she said later she didn't know it was being video taped???

I think so Armadillo. That made her look so deceptive. IMO.

[sydney]

Wasn't it the FBI video interview where she had a fit because she said later she didn't know it was being video taped???

it was one of those interviews. i recall her saying at the end words to the effect of "no, you didn't tell me it was being recorded" when they asked her if what she told them was true and accurate (paraphrasing again). who CARES if it's being taped as long as you sincerely want to find your missing grandchild and are telling the truth?

(i know, i know)

[Scampi]

yes, she swore to it:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1473802/Statement---Casey-Anthony-Written-2008-0715

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

Thank you Pru, off to reread this......

[need2no]

if they wait until trial to do this, that is another "defense" that will not fly. as far as i've seen, there is no evidence pointing at cindy at all. no a shred of evidence pointing to anyone else, either.

now, cindy being involved in the post 911 call coverup (the car smells like there's been a da** dead body in it)? possibly.

But...the reality is Cindy was the last known (documented) person to have been with Caylee. Not one person has come forward saying they saw Caylee with casey after Cindy took her to visit the GGF on June 15th.

[sydney]

I have to agree with you, syd.
The jury would not believe that at all. I am interested to know how they will defend Casey since this is a very unusual murder case and the defense does not even have witnesses to testify that would help Casey in any way as I can see. They will have to try this case on their (ahem) expert witnesses.

hey, deann - not sure even their "expert" witnesses can explain why kc didn't report caylee missing all that time. unless, of course, they go with a psych or "brain damage" angle - but even then, that wouldn't fly with me.

[sydney]

But...the reality is Cindy was the last known (documented) person to have been with Caylee. Not one person has come forward saying they saw Caylee with casey after Cindy took her to visit the GGF on June 15th.

but need, didn't george say he fed caylee breakfast the day she disappeared with kc? i realize he has credibility issues (to say the least). and how would one explain away the evidence found in kc's car that she admitted she left at amscot because it "ran out of gas"?

nah - i still think kc did it.

[Pruddennce]

Wasn't it the FBI video interview where she had a fit because she said later she didn't know it was being video taped???

she was angry because she didnt know 'she had to swear to anything':

at the very end:


http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2419748/Casey-Anthony-Cindy-Anthony-Transcript

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[need2no]

yes, she swore to it:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1473802/Statement---Casey-Anthony-Written-2008-0715

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

Don't believe I've ever seen so many lies crammed and gathered in such a small area in my entire life!

Thank goodness casey let us know Zenaida's birthday is in September, I've been wondering about that. :biggrin:

[sydney]

she was angry because she didnt know 'she had to swear to anything':

at the very end:


http://www.docstoc.com/docs/2419748/Casey-Anthony-Cindy-Anthony-Transcript

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

thanks pru. i knew it was something like that.....just couldn't remember the details. again, if you are telling the truth and truly wanted to find your grandchild, why WOULDN'T you swear it was the truth?

[Scampi]

Just finished rereading anthony's statement written on 7/16, lots of lies in that statement, to which she swore. The most damaging, imo, is her assertion that she received a call from Caylee, when LE has proof thru her cell records that she did not.

This defense team is cherry picking sworn statements to present in their motions, do they really think Judge Stan was born yesterday?

No wonder Linda Drane Burdick is so appalled at the lack of legal points contained in the defense's motions, this defense is wasting everyone's time, imo.

[msgatorslayer]

but need, didn't george say he fed caylee breakfast the day she disappeared with kc? i realize he has credibility issues (to say the least). and how would one explain away the evidence found in kc's car that she admitted she left at amscot because it "ran out of gas"?

nah - i still think kc did it.

Hey Syd! George remembered just a couple of months ago that he had fed Caylee that day. {So he says}

[ruth66]

Oh yes...this is before she started signing her name like JB...LOL

Remember this is the only story LE has...she has never told LE the Blanchard Park story.

Coming out of lurkdom to say: My concern has always been that too many stories have been floating out there that Casey supposedly said, it makes me wonder what that does to this case. So many of the people involved (and those who have put themselves in the middle) have passed on stories and comments but we really have only heard one story from Casey. And that is that the nanny took Caylee. It is difficult to hash out truth from fiction and I hope that doesn't trip up the prosecution.

JMO

[Pierre]

But...the reality is Cindy was the last known (documented) person to have been with Caylee. Not one person has come forward saying they saw Caylee with casey after Cindy took her to visit the GGF on June 15th.

Been outa the loop but what about Thompsons statement that he saw Casey and Caylee at walmart?

[need2no]

but need, didn't george say he fed caylee breakfast the day she disappeared with kc? i realize he has credibility issues (to say the least). and how would one explain away the evidence found in kc's car that she admitted she left at amscot because it "ran out of gas"?

nah - i still think kc did it.

Initially George did not mention one word about feeding Caylee breakfast in his interview with LE which proves to me it's BS. While remembering exactly what Caylee and casey were wearing on the last day he saw his precious granddaughter, and the exact time they left the house, but he didn't remember getting to prepare her breakfast until much later when he threw that in-horse hockey. But the bottom line is there is proof Cindy was with Caylee on June 15th, there is no proof of George or anyone else being with Caylee after that date.

I'm not saying casey isn't the one responsible for Caylee's death, however anyone could have placed that car at Amscot with Caylee's car seat, doll and other stuff in it.

[sweetlaurie]

But...the reality is Cindy was the last known (documented) person to have been with Caylee. Not one person has come forward saying they saw Caylee with casey after Cindy took her to visit the GGF on June 15th.

IIRC In the last doc dump - the computer guy said he saw them together comming out of Walmart on the day AFTER father's day.
So there is 1 person, oh yeah and George.

ETA: Pierre beat me to it lol

[need2no]

Been outa the loop but what about Thompsons statement that he saw Casey and Caylee at walmart?


Well heck, I could claim I saw Caylee on the 20th or any day in June, doesn't make it so without some proof. Unless they have a video from Walmart showing casey and Caylee entering or leaving, Thompson's statement won't carry any weight, IMO.

[Pierre]

if they wait until trial to do this, that is another "defense" that will not fly. as far as i've seen, there is no evidence pointing at cindy at all. no a shred of evidence pointing to anyone else, either.

now, cindy being involved in the post 911 call coverup (the car smells like there's been a da** dead body in it)? possibly.

My bold: The very first 911 call when Cindy was waiting to be connected to the right department and Cindy said to Casey something about getting custody of caylee and asked Casey if thats how she wanted to play it, and Casey said no thats not the way I want to play it.
Cindy didnt know she was still being recorded. But in that statement Cindy thought Caylee was still alive IMO.
Ya I've been at the library reading for at least a week. LOL!

[sydney]

Hey Syd! George remembered just a couple of months ago that he had fed Caylee that day. {So he says}

hey back, ms! it's funny - people's memories usually aren't that good, the more time passes. maybe george's memory is an exception to that rule, huh?

[need2no]

IIRC In the last doc dump - the computer guy said he saw them together comming out of Walmart on the day AFTER father's day.
So there is 1 person, oh yeah and George.

ETA: Pierre beat me to it lol

There is video proof of Cindy being with Caylee at the Assisted Living Facility visting Cindy's dad, and AL employees, Cindy, and Shirley have confirmed this visit on the 15th. There is no proof, or witnesses to casey or anyone else including George being seen with Caylee after the 15th.

[ruth66]

Well heck, I could claim I saw Caylee on the 20th or any day in June, doesn't make it so without some proof. Unless they have a video from Walmart showing casey and Caylee entering or leaving, Thompson's statement won't carry any weight, IMO.

I really haven't put much stock into Thompson's statement because I have a hard time believing that Casey was even out looking for a computer monitor. How was she going to pay for it? What did she need a monitor for, she didn't even own a computer. The girl couldn't rub two nickels together....JMO

[msgatorslayer]

WKMG's Tony Pipitone said, "Prosecutors today effectively tried to take the defense team to school -- law school, pointing out rules in effect for 41 years in Florida require Casey Anthony to face trial except under very limited circumstances."

Pipitone added: "And this, they say, is not one of those circumstances."
The defense's motion does not contain a sworn statement from Anthony, Pipitone explained. Prosecutors have asked Judge Stan Strickland not even to consider the defense motion.


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/10/casey-anthony-wftv-asks-if-jose-baez-signals-shift-in-defense.html

So....now the defense has included the 2 sworn statements by casey.

Color me confused on what Casey's statements have to do with backing up the defenses claims that charges need to be dropped.:confused:

Another thing about this article, say this Thomas guy did see Casey and Caylee at a Walmart, it still shows that Caylee was last seen alive with her Mother. I don't see how that's gonna help the defense.

[sydney]

I'm not saying casey isn't the one responsible for Caylee's death, however anyone could have placed that car at Amscot with Caylee's car seat, doll and other stuff in it.

(snipped by me)
that's interesting, need. do you think this may be a viable defense pitch to a jury?

[Pierre]

I really haven't put much stock into Thompson's statement because I have a hard time believing that Casey was even out looking for a computer monitor. How was she going to pay for it? What did she need a monitor for, she didn't even own a computer. The girl couldn't rub two nickels together....JMO

I believe she asked Thompson if he would accept a check. correct me if im wrong.

[sweetlaurie]

There is video proof of Cindy being with Caylee at the Assisted Living Facility visting Cindy's dad, and AL employees, Cindy, and Shirley have confirmed this visit on the 15th. There is no proof, or witnesses to casey or anyone else including George being seen with Caylee after the 15th.

I understand that. I actually agree the guy could be full of bunk, however, I was responding to your statement that not 1 person has come forward to say they had seen them after she was last seen with Cindy. A person DID come forward. Not with proof, or even much crediblity, but they did come forward.
I only responded because I thought you might have missed it. Not because I wanted to argue.
I will go back to lurking now.

[jammies]

My bold: The very first 911 call when Cindy was waiting to be connected to the right department and Cindy said to Casey something about getting custody of caylee and asked Casey if thats how she wanted to play it, and Casey said no thats not the way I want to play it.
Cindy didnt know she was still being recorded. But in that statement Cindy thought Caylee was still alive IMO.
Ya I've been at the library reading for at least a week. LOL!



Very good point, Pierre. One that I don't believe we've discussed before. Great catch!

[Sun]

Motion to Dismiss Counts I and II of the Indictment
Defense's Motion (9/30/09): http://www.wftv.com/pdf/21163520/detail.html

State's Motion to Strike (10/5/09): http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/1005%20Casey%20Motion.pdf

And, the defense has now filed an Amended Motion, I guess in response to the State's Response. No link to this one yet... if someone finds it, please post. TIA

[sydney]

Color me confused on what Casey's statements have to do with backing up the defenses claims that charges need to be dropped.:confused:

Another thing about this article, say this Thomas guy did see Casey and Caylee at a Walmart, it still shows that Caylee was last seen alive with her Mother. I don't see how that's gonna help the defense.

i don't put a whole lot of stock in this guy's statement. he seemed more interested in kc's appearance by the way he described her and getting her to come back by appealing to caylee than helping in a murder investigation.

also kind of strange to me that he waited so long to come out with this - and as everyone else had said, video from wal-mart confirming his "sighting" would go a long way. i wonder if video that old would still exist. my guess would be no.

[ruth66]

I believe she asked Thompson if he would accept a check. correct me if im wrong.

Well that I would believe...wonder who's check she was planning on using? :confused:

[Dtviewer3]

Well that I would believe...wonder who's check she was planning on using? :confused:


Wonder if Amy knows how close she was to buying a new computer monitor:biggrin:

[ruth66]

Wonder if Amy knows how close she was to buying a new computer monitor:biggrin:

oh so true...:laugh:

[Pierre]

Very good point, Pierre. One that I don't believe we've discussed before. Great catch!

well thats what happens when your in the library all week long.But Its better than camp.LOL And Im no fan of Cindy Marie Anthony.

[need2no]

(snipped by me)
that's interesting, need. do you think this may be a viable defense pitch to a jury?

Well....it's possible, IMO. I think the motive for George and Cindy's madness throughout has been to cast reasonable doubt by trying to keep everything as muddled and confusing as humanly possible, and Baez is doing the same. Of course it's Baez's job to do so, NOT George, Cindy or Lee.

Can you imagine how different this case would be if George and Cindy had simply stated...we believe our daughter is innocent and plan to stand behind her until justice is served and she is cleared of these charges. We love and miss our granddaughter, as does casey. The only statements they should have made were to plea to the kidnapper (cough, cough) to return Caylee safely to them, to ask the public to help look for Caylee, and to ask for privacy at this difficult time in their lives. Information regarding timelines, casey's problems, activities, and such should have only been conveyed in interviews with LE, FBI, and in depos.

They have definitely created a tangled web, and I have no doubt it was done purposefully.

[Barbara fl.]

Color me confused on what Casey's statements have to do with backing up the defenses claims that charges need to be dropped.:confused:
Another thing about this article, say this Thomas guy did see Casey and Caylee at a Walmart, it still shows that Caylee was last seen alive with her Mother. I don't see how that's gonna help the defense.



I love the way you put that...:lol:

[sydney]

Well....it's possible, IMO. I think the motive for George and Cindy's madness throughout has been to cast reasonable doubt by trying to keep everything as muddled and confusing as humanly possible, and Baez is doing the same. Of course it's Baez's job to do so, NOT George, Cindy or Lee.

Can you imagine how different this case would be if George and Cindy had simply stated...we believe our daughter is innocent and plan to stand behind her until justice is served and she is cleared of these charges.

(snipped by me)

oh so true, need. they have created this monster and have no one but themselves to blame. they thought they could harness the power of the media, divert attention, and send the media and le scurrying in any direction but that of their daughter. too bad they underestimated the intelligence of le and the media, and overestimated their own.

[ruth66]

Well....it's possible, IMO. I think the motive for George and Cindy's madness throughout has been to cast reasonable doubt by trying to keep everything as muddled and confusing as humanly possible, and Baez is doing the same. Of course it's Baez's job to do so, NOT George, Cindy or Lee.
Can you imagine how different this case would be if George and Cindy had simply stated...we believe our daughter is innocent and plan to stand behind her until justice is served and she is cleared of these charges. We love and miss our granddaughter, as does casey. The only statements they should have made were to plea to the kidnapper (cough, cough) to return Caylee safely to them, to ask the public to help look for Caylee, and to ask for privacy at this difficult time in their lives. Information regarding timelines, casey's problems, activities, and such should have only been conveyed in interviews with LE, FBI, and in depos.

They have definitely created a tangled web, and I have no doubt it was done purposefully.

bolding mine
I couldn't agree with you more on all points but especially the bolded.:thumbsup:

[msgatorslayer]

Wonder if Amy knows how close she was to buying a new computer monitor:biggrin:

Who's computer needed a new monitor? Anyone know?

[ruth66]

(snipped by me)

oh so true, need. they have created this monster and have no one but themselves to blame. they thought they could harness the power of the media, divert attention, and send the media and le scurrying in any direction but that of their daughter. too bad they underestimated the intelligence of le and the media, and overestimated their own.

ITA although, it sure makes for a more interesting movie plot which is sure to keep raking in the cash for the Anthony family. And that I believe was also part of their plan. JMO

[Barbara fl.]

(snipped by me)

oh so true, need. they have created this monster and have no one but themselves to blame. they thought they could harness the power of the media, divert attention, and send the media and le scurrying in any direction but that of their daughter. too bad they underestimated the intelligence of le and the media, and overestimated their own.


My honest opinion is that this family picked the wrong state to try their diversions with...Florida doesn't like to spend money needlessly, and this family has caused Florida to go way over their budget...Florida will NOT let Casey off under any circumstances....they have a vendetta aganst Casey right now and they have the upper hand.....


If it was ever to come down to just the check charges...Casey will get LWOP...:biggrin:

[jammies]

well thats what happens when your in the library all week long.But Its better than camp.LOL And Im no fan of Cindy Marie Anthony.


I've pretty much thought it was AFTER the 911 calls that Cindy put two and two together. Up til those calls she held out hope. At some point that evening SOMETHING was said (probably when she overheard Casey and Lee talking) that clued her in. Lee wiping out the info on Casey's laptop that very same night is a huge red flag, IMO.

[need2no]

I understand that. I actually agree the guy could be full of bunk, however, I was responding to your statement that not 1 person has come forward to say they had seen them after she was last seen with Cindy. A person DID come forward. Not with proof, or even much crediblity, but they did come forward.
I only responded because I thought you might have missed it. Not because I wanted to argue.
I will go back to lurking now.

sweetlaurie, I'm so sorry if I came off like I was arguing, I certainly didn't mean for my post to sound that way. (Blame the full moon-lol) It's just that I feel so strongly about the fact that there is no one, not a single person that knows casey, who has reported seeing Caylee with casey after Cindy's visit to the ALF, and that just bugs me to no end. But you are correct, Mr. Thompson has come forward 14 months later to state he saw the 2 of them together. From his blog stating his background he comes off like an up and up guy, but I don't know, still can't get past him waiting so long to share this info.

Please don't just lurk, we need everyone's thoughts and opinions as we work through this difficult and confusing case, ok.

[need2no]

ITA although, it sure makes for a more interesting movie plot which is sure to keep raking in the cash for the Anthony family. And that I believe was also part of their plan. JMO

I sooooo agree 100% ruth. Heck early on in this case this probably became more of their motive than trying to muddy the water to save casey as they soon recognized the financial potential. Also I don't think Cindy wants to save casey, she just thinks it makes HER look better to give that appearance, may be is afraid what casey will spill if she doesn't come off like she supports her, and it gives her an excuse to keep hitting the media circuit.

[ish]

Hey there Armadillo, she also said 'dropped off' not kidnapped or taken by force. I guess she needs to keep her options open :confused:

Cindy would say that when Casey says "dropped off" it might mean that she did indeed "drop her off", but it could also mean "someone took her":huh:

[Katprint]

Can you imagine how different this case would be if George and Cindy had simply stated...we believe our daughter is innocent and plan to stand behind her until justice is served and she is cleared of these charges. ...<respectfully snipped>

Yes, then the case would be a lot like the Melissa Huckaby/Sandra Cantu murder case, the kidnapping/child molestation/murder case that the press hardly bothers to cover anymore even though the facts are arguably worse than the Caylee Anthony murder case.. Huckaby's parents basically said, one time only before vanishing from the spotlight, that they were shocked at the allegations against their daughter and they hoped the allegations were not true. The defense attorneys successfully sought a gag order and then obeyed it, and so has the prosecution. By the time Huckaby goes to trial, it should be easy to find a jury of people who never heard of her.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[sweetlaurie]

sweetlaurie, I'm so sorry if I came off like I was arguing, I certainly didn't mean for my post to sound that way. (Blame the full moon-lol) It's just that I feel so strongly about the fact that there is no one, not a single person that knows casey, who has reported seeing Caylee with casey after Cindy's visit to the ALF, and that just bugs me to no end. But you are correct, Mr. Thompson has come forward 14 months later to state he saw the 2 of them together. From his blog stating his background he comes off like an up and up guy, but I don't know, still can't get past him waiting so long to share this info.

Please don't just lurk, we need everyone's thoughts and opinions as we work through this difficult and confusing case, ok.

No offense was taken Need :wub:
I understand your frustration. I guess I just tend to think: If CINDY was really the last one with Caylee - Casey would have spoken up by now. Or will soon, if the intention is to continue to scam the public. I can see it...Casey's job is to sit in jail while the sr. Anthoneys work the public, and they all get rich. In the mean time, they all thow doubt as hard as they can so when it comes right down to it the State can't prove their case, Casey goes free, and they all get rich.

I do, however, feel that ANY jury will have a very hard time getting past Casey's own words that SHE was the last person to see Caylee (sans a nanny) alive. I know I do. In other words, to me, the person who knows Casey - that came forward and said they saw Caylee alive with Casey after the trip to the ALF - is CASEY herself. (again not much credibility in most things she says but......)

[sydney]

I sooooo agree 100% ruth. Heck early on in this case this probably became more of their motive than trying to muddy the water to save casey as they soon recognized the financial potential. Also I don't think Cindy wants to save casey, she just thinks it makes HER look better to give that appearance, may be is afraid what casey will spill if she doesn't come off like she supports her, and it gives her an excuse to keep hitting the media circuit.

(bbm)
this absolutely horrifies me! no thinking, loving human being would place financial gain, "fame and fortune" over their own flesh and blood. nothing surprises me with these folks anymore - absolutely nothing.

[Dtviewer3]

<respectfully snipped>

Yes, then the case would be a lot like the Melissa Huckaby/Sandra Cantu murder case, the kidnapping/child molestation/murder case that the press hardly bothers to cover anymore even though the facts are arguably worse than the Caylee Anthony murder case.. Huckaby's parents basically said, one time only before vanishing from the spotlight, that they were shocked at the allegations against their daughter and they hoped the allegations were not true. The defense attorneys successfully sought a gag order and then obeyed it, and so has the prosecution. By the time Huckaby goes to trial, it should be easy to find a jury of people who never heard of her.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Kat, can you weigh in (explain) on the new Motions to dismiss, the States response and the Defense's new addendum to their motion to dismiss.

More specifically, the parts about Caseys' signed statements.

Thanks!!!!

[need2no]

Who's computer needed a new monitor? Anyone know?

Wondered about that myself, since she and TonE used laptops. Maybe she was going to surprise Cindy and George with a new 24 inch monitor. Perhaps a combination of a late birthday present for Cindy, and a late Father's day present for George.:wink:

[ruth66]

I sooooo agree 100% ruth. Heck early on in this case this probably became more of their motive than trying to muddy the water to save casey as they soon recognized the financial potential. Also I don't think Cindy wants to save casey, she just thinks it makes HER look better to give that appearance, may be is afraid what casey will spill if she doesn't come off like she supports her, and it gives her an excuse to keep hitting the media circuit.

Cindy is no fool, she knows that if for some crazy reason Casey gets out of this one, CA & GA will no longer be the ones the media will be courting. Casey would be the recipient of all the monetary fortunes that have come by way of Caylees demise. Casey IMO is not going to share that wealth with GA & CA.....they would be an afterthought as they were before this tragedy began. JMO

[Pierre]

I've pretty much thought it was AFTER the 911 calls that Cindy put two and two together. Up til those calls she held out hope. At some point that evening SOMETHING was said (probably when she overheard Casey and Lee talking) that clued her in. Lee wiping out the info on Casey's laptop that very same night is a huge red flag, IMO.

Yes! Isn't that when Cindy asked Casey "What have you done?"


And George knew before Cindy; It was George who drove the car home in the rain with all the windows all the way down barely able to get home because the smell was so bad. Oh yes, George Anthony had that smell in his nose for DAYS after. MOO

[summer]

I think it is important to point out that the bolded statement is still not true. Casey never reported Caylee missing, Cindy did. The above statement should have read something like 'My daughter, Caylee, was not reported missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008'.

I fail to see how this new addendum filed by the defense is going to help the motion. :shrug:

Added to that - when 911 wanted to talk to her she squealed: "Why do they want to talk to meeee?"

[Barbara fl.]

sweetlaurie, I'm so sorry if I came off like I was arguing, I certainly didn't mean for my post to sound that way. (Blame the full moon-lol) It's just that I feel so strongly about the fact that there is no one, not a single person that knows casey, who has reported seeing Caylee with casey after Cindy's visit to the ALF, and that just bugs me to no end. But you are correct, Mr. Thompson has come forward 14 months later to state he saw the 2 of them together. From his blog stating his background he comes off like an up and up guy, but I don't know, still can't get past him waiting so long to share this info.

Please don't just lurk, we need everyone's thoughts and opinions as we work through this difficult and confusing case, ok.


Casey put herself with Caylee the last time....remember? She claims to have dropped her off at sawgrass apts, then at blanchard park....what better witness can there be?...it's the only part of her story that is fact...she had Caylee the last time she was ever seen....

[ish]

i don't put a whole lot of stock in this guy's statement. he seemed more interested in kc's appearance by the way he described her and getting her to come back by appealing to caylee than helping in a murder investigation.

also kind of strange to me that he waited so long to come out with this - and as everyone else had said, video from wal-mart confirming his "sighting" would go a long way. i wonder if video that old would still exist. my guess would be no.

Yeah, a bit too much interest in her "cleavage and short shorts", I wouldn't risk putting him on the stand. I think he's "odd" to say the least.

[Pierre]

Do we have a hearing on Friday???

Bumped ; I was wondering too, anyone?

[Dtviewer3]

Yeah, a bit too much interest in her "cleavage and short shorts", I wouldn't risk putting him on the stand. I think he's "odd" to say the least.

Odd?.....or just honest.....:wink:

[Barbara fl.]

Yes, if George and Cindy had stayed out of the spotlight and if JB would have agreed to the gag order that the State wanted...things would be totally different...but me thinks JB did not want the gag order because then he would have got no publicity...plus if there had been a gag order...I think Cindy would have been arrested by now cause we know she just can't stop talking...JMO


Exactly....Geragos was wrecked when hgag order was placed....Baez would go banana's , and so would LKB if they couldn't get in the media attention......That is how they intend to win their case...:laugh:


Little do they know....

[Bala]

Bumped ; I was wondering too, anyone?
I believe it's Friday the 16TH.

[Barbara fl.]

Added to that - when 911 wanted to talk to her she squealed: "Why do they want to talk to meeee?"


After all she's just the mother...(shows the mantality)....:rolleyes:

[summer]

Yes, if George and Cindy had stayed out of the spotlight and if JB would have agreed to the gag order that the State wanted...things would be totally different...but me thinks JB did not want the gag order because then he would have got no publicity...plus if there had been a gag order...I think Cindy would have been arrested by now cause we know she just can't stop talking...JMO

IMO Cindy & George wanted the spotlight so they could collect dollars and JB went along with it because that's how he was being paid.

[need2no]

No offense was taken Need :wub:
I understand your frustration. I guess I just tend to think: If CINDY was really the last one with Caylee - Casey would have spoken up by now. Or will soon, if the intention is to continue to scam the public. I can see it...Casey's job is to sit in jail while the sr. Anthoneys work the public, and they all get rich. In the mean time, they all thow doubt as hard as they can so when it comes right down to it the State can't prove their case, Casey goes free, and they all get rich.

I do, however, feel that ANY jury will have a very hard time getting past Casey's own words that SHE was the last person to see Caylee (sans a nanny) alive. I know I do. In other words, to me, the person who knows Casey - that came forward and said they saw Caylee alive with Casey after the trip to the ALF - is CASEY herself. (again not much credibility in most things she says but......)


Cool, we're good.:wub:

BBM

I agree, it makes no sense casey wouldn't have spoken up and spilled the beans, especially after all this time. But another thing that bugs me is the jail house visit where Cindy sees casey talking to the doctor (psycho), and casey says...don't worry mom, I haven't told them anything. WTH did she mean by that statement? Was she merely saying she hasn't admitted guilt? If so, why would she say that to Cindy when she continually told her parents she didn't harm Caylee and in her gut she believed Caylee was ok. No need to worry she'd tell the pyscho doc something else. Just curious, very curious.

I agree with this as well, and think that is their dream. Have their sweet little family back together, minus their precious granddaughter, and live the life with no money worries. They probably think all their troubles were because of money being tight-WRONG.

Yes, casey has stated she was with Caylee, so it's going to be an uphill battle to state otherwise at the trial.

[Katprint]

Kat, can you weigh in (explain) on the new Motions to dismiss, the States response and the Defense's new addendum to their motion to dismiss.

More specifically, the parts about Caseys' signed statements.

Thanks!!!!
I have zero luck pulling up documents on the court's website, and I haven't read the parts about Casey's signed statements. When I heard about the statements, however, I immediately thought, "Wow, they better be careful or they are going to waive her right against self-incrimination." A criminal defendant can't testify via sworn declaration but then refuse to be cross-examined about that testimony.

As far as the motions to dismiss, based on how I have seen them characterized by others, the defense basically seems to be arguing that the evidence is insufficient as a matter of law to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Their problem is that it doesn't take much evidence to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Circumstantial evidence is sufficient, and there is a LOT of circumstantial evidence in this case. Cause of death does not need to be proven; the body doesn't even need to have been found. I really don't see any way the judge is going to dismiss this case.

As far as the motion not to monitor the attorney-client jailhouse visits, those visits should be subject to realtime visual monitoring only for jail security purposes and not for improper purposes such as lipreading, trying to get closeups of the attorney's file notes, etc. I agree with Baez (*gasp*) that the jail staff should not be listening in, nor should video or audio recordings of the visits be turned over to the prosecution for their analysis/potential use against Casey.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[summer]

Odd?.....or just honest.....:wink:

I go with honest. He didn't censor himself and he threw in every detail he could possibly remember. Who knows, maybe something about her clothing would've been an important tidbit to the police. Not the cleavage of course but ... big deal. I put no negative weight on his harmless observance of her appearance and his goofy reaction. I think people are being a bit too PC here.

[msgatorslayer]

Wondered about that myself, since she and TonE used laptops. Maybe she was going to surprise Cindy and George with a new 24 inch monitor. Perhaps a combination of a late birthday present for Cindy, and a late Father's day present for George.:wink:

I don't think it was her at the puter shop. Casey is not the type to use stolen funds to buy something for her parents, lol.

That we know of, nobody was in need of a monitor. Casey had her Mom's laptop. As long as she had puter access, why would she worry about a monitor for someone else? Doesn't make sense.

[need2no]

I believe it's Friday the 16TH.


That's the way I interpreted this article that was posted on the 5th.


A judge just set a new hearing date for next Friday morning and Casey Anthony is expected to be there.


http://www.wftv.com/news/21209000/detail.html

Of course if they want to have the hearing THIS Friday, fine by me. :smile:

[Daffodil]

sweetlaurie, I'm so sorry if I came off like I was arguing, I certainly didn't mean for my post to sound that way. (Blame the full moon-lol) It's just that I feel so strongly about the fact that there is no one, not a single person that knows casey, who has reported seeing Caylee with casey after Cindy's visit to the ALF, and that just bugs me to no end. But you are correct, Mr. Thompson has come forward 14 months later to state he saw the 2 of them together. From his blog stating his background he comes off like an up and up guy, but I don't know, still can't get past him waiting so long to share this info.

Please don't just lurk, we need everyone's thoughts and opinions as we work through this difficult and confusing case, ok.



Need, That has always bothered me too. Plus the fact that George claims he saw them that day around noonish. Where were they the rest of the morning? Cindy could "hear" them sleeping through the door. I think this is the only way the defense can go.

[summer]

I don't think it was her at the puter shop. Casey is not the type to use stolen funds to buy something for her parents, lol.

That we know of, nobody was in need of a monitor. Casey had her Mom's laptop. As long as she had puter access, why would she worry about a monitor for someone else? Doesn't make sense.

Maybe she was planning to steal a computer that needed a shiny new monitor. La Bella Vida baby. Who knows what was in her manic and demonic head at that point?

[Barbara fl.]

Cool, we're good.:wub:

BBM

I agree, it makes no sense casey wouldn't have spoken up and spilled the beans, especially after all this time. But another thing that bugs me is the jail house visit where Cindy sees casey talking to the doctor (psycho), and casey says...don't worry mom, I haven't told them anything. WTH did she mean by that statement? Was she merely saying she hasn't admitted guilt? If so, why would she say that to Cindy when she continually told her parents she didn't harm Caylee and in her gut she believed Caylee was ok. No need to worry she'd tell the pyscho doc something else. Just curious, very curious.

I agree with this as well, and think that is their dream. Have their sweet little family back together, minus their precious granddaughter, and live the life with no money worries. They probably think all their troubles were because of money being tight-WRONG.

Yes, casey has stated she was with Caylee, so it's going to be an uphill battle to state otherwise at the trial.


That is not exactly what was said...Cindy was asking Casey if she spoke to a particular detective and before Cindy could finish, Casey say's I haven't told anyone anything....I took that to mean that Casey THOUGHT her mother was about to tell her not to talk to anyone but her lawyer and Casey responded prematurely...I did not take that as Casey meaing in any way that she didn't tell on Cindy....not at all...That's what I got out of that.....

[Daffodil]

No offense was taken Need :wub:
I understand your frustration. I guess I just tend to think: If CINDY was really the last one with Caylee - Casey would have spoken up by now. Or will soon, if the intention is to continue to scam the public. I can see it...Casey's job is to sit in jail while the sr. Anthoneys work the public, and they all get rich. In the mean time, they all thow doubt as hard as they can so when it comes right down to it the State can't prove their case, Casey goes free, and they all get rich.

I do, however, feel that ANY jury will have a very hard time getting past Casey's own words that SHE was the last person to see Caylee (sans a nanny) alive. I know I do. In other words, to me, the person who knows Casey - that came forward and said they saw Caylee alive with Casey after the trip to the ALF - is CASEY herself. (again not much credibility in most things she says but......)



Maybe........it was both Casey and Cindy that were the last ones to see Caylee alive. One of my theories is that something happened while Casey and Cindy were arguing.

[need2no]

I don't think it was her at the puter shop. Casey is not the type to use stolen funds to buy something for her parents, lol.

That we know of, nobody was in need of a monitor. Casey had her Mom's laptop. As long as she had puter access, why would she worry about a monitor for someone else? Doesn't make sense.

ITA, in fact I wonder if casey ever bought anything for anyone other than the beer and food she provided for TonE and roommate, courtesy of Amy and Cindy's money.

Seems odd if Thompson made up the story why he wouldn't have said a lap top or web cam, or something like that rather than a MONITOR. Perhaps it was just some other scantily dressed mom with a child that looked similiar to Caylee...but I doubt it.

[Ellie]

I don't think it was her at the puter shop. Casey is not the type to use stolen funds to buy something for her parents, lol.

That we know of, nobody was in need of a monitor. Casey had her Mom's laptop. As long as she had puter access, why would she worry about a monitor for someone else? Doesn't make sense.

Ummm...maybe she thought she could buy it with a (stolen) check and then return it for cash.....

[ish]

Something very interesting I've noticed in this case is that so much of what went on during that month from June 15th til Cindy called 911, came from Cindy directly.

Casey as far as we know didn't tell any of these stories about car accidents, Jeff Hopkins and his kid and his mother's wedding, and all these wacky goings on, to LE. These are all Cindy's tales, that she allegedly heard from Casey.

Casey has only talked about what happened the day she left Caylee at Sawgrass apt 210.

We don't know how much of what Cindy is saying is actually what Casey told her and how much of it has been twisted and embellished by Cindy herself. We've seen how she goes on and on in the FBI interview, almost like she is taking bits and pieces of numerous stories and weaving them together to create a whole scenario. I wonder if Casey has heard or read her mother's comments and interviews and what her reaction to them is. Will she deny telling Cindy these things? I worry that the defense will drive the case off course by highlighting Cindy and her inconsistant stories/fabrications and take the focus off of Caylee.

[summer]

That is not exactly what was said...Cindy was asking Casey if she spoke to a particular detective and before Cindy could finish, Casey say's I haven't told anyone anything....I took that to mean that Casey THOUGHT her mother was about to tell her not to talk to anyone but her lawyer and Casey responded prematurely...I did not take that as Casey meaing in any way that she didn't tell on Cindy....not at all...That's what I got out of that.....

That's how I interpreted that particular statement too, Barb. It's almost like the "I haven't cried" when she was talking to her parents from jail. Like she was telling her mom something to be proud of. There's something about the Anthony home, like you should stick with deception and be resistant to any authority. It's so strange.

[sydney]

how do we know for sure it was kc and caylee in the puter shop? the guy was kinda vague in his description of both of them (except of course, for kc's legs and cleavage). he gave his statement so much later, that perhaps his recollection was tainted by all the videos, photos, etc, that were all over the media? as far as the little girl saying her name was "caylee", she could have been saying "katie" or some such variation.

to me, it's kinda like the caylee sightings in other states. could be the people he saw resembled kc and caylee, but were not them at all.

if he has that good of a memory, too bad he never saw the invisi-nanny. i'm sure, her being a "10" and all, he'd have remembered her and been able to identify her in a heartbeat.

[summer]

Ummm...maybe she thought she could buy it with a (stolen) check and then return it for cash.....

Good one Ellie! I think that's entirely possible.

[summer]

how do we know for sure it was kc and caylee in the puter shop? the guy was kinda vague in his description of both of them (except of course, for kc's legs and cleavage). he gave his statement so much later, that perhaps his recollection was tainted by all the videos, photos, etc, that were all over the media? as far as the little girl saying her name was "caylee", she could have been saying "katie" or some such variation.

to me, it's kinda like the caylee sightings in other states. could be the people he saw resembled kc and caylee, but were not them at all.

if he has that good of a memory, too bad he never saw the invisi-nanny. i'm sure, her being a "10" and all, he'd have remembered her and been able to identify her in a heartbeat.

It's my recollection he met her the week before? That's how he knew.

[Dtviewer3]

I have zero luck pulling up documents on the court's website, and I haven't read the parts about Casey's signed statements. When I heard about the statements, however, I immediately thought, "Wow, they better be careful or they are going to waive her right against self-incrimination." A criminal defendant can't testify via sworn declaration but then refuse to be cross-examined about that testimony.

As far as the motions to dismiss, based on how I have seen them characterized by others, the defense basically seems to be arguing that the evidence is insufficient as a matter of law to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. ----snipped----prosecution for their analysis/potential use against Casey.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Thanks for the insight Kat.
This is from a story from the Sentinal that talks about Caseys statements and the Defenses' addendum. I dont understand the argument about her statements and what it means to her Motions to Dismiss:blushing:

'Late Tuesday, Casey Anthony's defense team filed an addendum to its motion to dismiss the first-degree murder and aggravated child abuse charges against her. The state had called the defense's initial motion "legally flawed."

Her attorneys Jose Baez and Andrea Lyon point out again that Caylee's "cause of death is not known and that the prosecution's evidence cannot satisfy the elements of first-degree murder."

They said their motion is based on law enforcement lab results and the Orange County Medical Examiner and Casey Anthony "cannot legally swear" to their findings.

But Casey Anthony did sign a document, swearing to two statements:

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."

"I did tell law enforcement that I had dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez when questioned by law enforcement." '

[need2no]

Need, That has always bothered me too. Plus the fact that George claims he saw them that day around noonish. Where were they the rest of the morning? Cindy could "hear" them sleeping through the door. I think this is the only way the defense can go.

I think George and Cindy eventually tossed in the comment about George feeding Caylee breakfast only after so many bloggers were questioning why a 2 year old didn't have breakfast or lunch when it was allegedly almost 1pm when casey and Caylee exited from casey's bedroom ready to head out the door. Heck didn't either one of them need to use the barhroom. If Caylee woke up to use the bathroom I just wouldn't believe for a second that she'd simply head back to bed knowing George was up and about. Two year olds hit the floor running, full of energy and full steam ahead.

George's story doesn't hold weight, IMO, which brings us back to Cindy being the last one known to be with Caylee....unless we buy Thompson's story. I don't suppose he's been offered some......oh, never mind.

[summer]

As for the bolded: IMO that was a punk assed, pissy attempt to smarm at her mom. I don't know if I can explain what I mean, but I'll try.
We know (as much as we can know with what we have observed) that Cindy hid family situations. She was (is) compulsive about presenting the face of the perfect family to the world , her friends and family. Casey not finishing HS, George's gambeling, etc, all hidden away.
I am absolutely positive there are secrets in that family, as there are in most families, that Cindy would not want strangers to hear about. It could be as simple as Cindy seeing a therapist. Maybe Casey had accused her of being a wino, or found out Cindy was having an affair, maybe Cindy kicked the dogs in private....Maybe Cindy and George liked to dress in each others clothes and hang from the ceiling fan....what ever Cindy didn't want known, CASEY was saying Don't worry mom, you little secrets are safe with me....for now, but just you remember..I got stuff on you too, lady.
At least that's how I look at it. Cindy is an easy target for the people who know her secrets. She's nutty to the extreme about appearences. Casey enjoyed making her sweat.

I know it's a stretch but I've always wondered if they weren't *swingers*. They would be a dead ringer for that kind of activity except they don't have any friends so I'm sure I'm wrong. But they have that kind of sleaze vibe to me. Also if serious porn pics come out on Casey (and I believe they will, don't know if they advance the prosecution's case though) it would make sense that Casey came from that kind of environment.

Whatever it is - there are secrets for sure.

[ruth66]

Something very interesting I've noticed in this case is that so much of what went on during that month from June 15th til Cindy called 911, came from Cindy directly.

Casey as far as we know didn't tell any of these stories about car accidents, Jeff Hopkins and his kid and his mother's wedding, and all these wacky goings on, to LE. These are all Cindy's tales, that she allegedly heard from Casey.

Casey has only talked about what happened the day she left Caylee at Sawgrass apt 210.

We don't know how much of what Cindy is saying is actually what Casey told her and how much of it has been twisted and embellished by Cindy herself. We've seen how she goes on and on in the FBI interview, almost like she is taking bits and pieces of numerous stories and weaving them together to create a whole scenario. I wonder if Casey has heard or read her mother's comments and interviews and what her reaction to them is. Will she deny telling Cindy these things? I worry that the defense will drive the case off course by highlighting Cindy and her inconsistant stories/fabrications and take the focus off of Caylee.

Bolding mine
That is what I have been trying to verbalize for some time. The only other person to repeat even a portion of these stories is GA and he has indicated that he heard them from CA. The details she gives FBI in those interviews amazes me. One would think after hearing Casey lie for oh so long, you would tune her out when she started spewing yet another whopper of a story. The fact that CA could tell with such great detail a story like that makes me think CA was on a mission that day. Unbelievable....

[sydney]

It's my recollection he met her the week before? That's how he knew.

but summer, he didn't come forward for sooooo long - i think his memory may be tainted by all the stuff already out there.

[LadyHam]

Do we have a hearing on Friday???

We do on next Friday, the 16th. Too bad it wasn't this Friday.

[summer]

Something very interesting I've noticed in this case is that so much of what went on during that month from June 15th til Cindy called 911, came from Cindy directly.

Casey as far as we know didn't tell any of these stories about car accidents, Jeff Hopkins and his kid and his mother's wedding, and all these wacky goings on, to LE. These are all Cindy's tales, that she allegedly heard from Casey.

Casey has only talked about what happened the day she left Caylee at Sawgrass apt 210.

We don't know how much of what Cindy is saying is actually what Casey told her and how much of it has been twisted and embellished by Cindy herself. We've seen how she goes on and on in the FBI interview, almost like she is taking bits and pieces of numerous stories and weaving them together to create a whole scenario. I wonder if Casey has heard or read her mother's comments and interviews and what her reaction to them is. Will she deny telling Cindy these things? I worry that the defense will drive the case off course by highlighting Cindy and her inconsistant stories/fabrications and take the focus off of Caylee.

I bet Casey is flipping out at half the stuff her mom said. She probably figured, OK, whatever she has to do to get me out of this, fine. Which is what probably happened many times in the past... "I'll handle this, Casey..." But the stories didn't help her much this time, did they.

[ish]

my bold

Always wondered about that statement too...When I first heard her say that...I thought of the big fight...or some family secret???


The last known person with Caylee was Casey, but in Casey's statement the last known person with Caylee was ZFG...it will be up to the state to prove her wrong...JMO

my bold

I think this is the most incriminating part of the case, once Casey left the house with Caylee according to George (if George's recollection of Caylee's clothing jives with the clothing found with her body that is even more incriminating), no one has ever come forward to say that they ever saw Caylee after that. In all her travels, caught on video writing stolen checks, getting a tattoo, hanging with her friends, NO ONE saw Caylee, she never purchased anything for Caylee, she never took any of Caylee's things from her parent's home for Caylee, even though she took things for herself. Caylee was never seen again.

Even if we believe the guy from the computor store, that he saw them in WalMart, and I doubt he did, that sighting is only minutes from when George says she left home, so it is possible she went to WalMart just prior to when whatever happened to Caylee took place.

[need2no]

As for the bolded: IMO that was a punk assed, pissy attempt to smarm at her mom. I don't know if I can explain what I mean, but I'll try.
We know (as much as we can know with what we have observed) that Cindy hid family situations. She was (is) compulsive about presenting the face of the perfect family to the world , her friends and family. Casey not finishing HS, George's gambeling, etc, all hidden away.
I am absolutely positive there are secrets in that family, as there are in most families, that Cindy would not want strangers to hear about. It could be as simple as Cindy seeing a therapist. Maybe Casey had accused her of being a wino, or found out Cindy was having an affair, maybe Cindy kicked the dogs in private...]Maybe Cindy and George liked to dress in each others clothes and hang from the ceiling fan....what ever Cindy didn't want known, CASEY was saying Don't worry mom, you little secrets are safe with me....for now, but just you remember..I got stuff on you too, lady.
At least that's how I look at it. Cindy is an easy target for the people who know her secrets. She's nutty to the extreme about appearences. Casey enjoyed making her sweat.

BBM

:lol:

Thanks for that (clothes & ceiling fan), I needed a good laugh this morning.

I think you have presented a very plausible explanation which makes perfect sense to me. I think you've nailed it. And the kicker is...Cindy couldn't say anything back, or even question her what with knowing they were being video taped. :biggrin:

[sydney]

Casey as far as we know didn't tell any of these stories about car accidents, Jeff Hopkins and his kid and his mother's wedding, and all these wacky goings on, to LE. These are all Cindy's tales, that she allegedly heard from Casey.


(snipped by me)

ish, didn't she tell le at some point about jeff hopkins and his kid and the invisi-nanny arrangement (one of her statements)? i thought she also mentioned some "co-workers" to le she had at the time that le found out hadn't worked there in quite some time.

as far as the goings-on - i believe you are correct. but do you honestly think cindy would not try and find kc sooner if kc didn't have SOME sort of explanation as to where she and caylee were? cindy prolly embellished those tales. could she really have cared so little about caylee?

[summer]

but summer, he didn't come forward for sooooo long - i think his memory may be tainted by all the stuff already out there.

Hey Sydney, I know, he waited a year. But the SA has him on the witness list and I think that carries a lot of weight. They don't have the floppy hat guy as a witness, for example. Maybe there's an explanation we haven't heard yet or maybe it's just one of those human nature things that's particular to Thompson and his psychology. I bet the SA has some corroboration for this story. Should be interesting!

[Sun]

Something very interesting I've noticed in this case is that so much of what went on during that month from June 15th til Cindy called 911, came from Cindy directly.

Casey as far as we know didn't tell any of these stories about car accidents, Jeff Hopkins and his kid and his mother's wedding, and all these wacky goings on, to LE. These are all Cindy's tales, that she allegedly heard from Casey.

Casey has only talked about what happened the day she left Caylee at Sawgrass apt 210.

We don't know how much of what Cindy is saying is actually what Casey told her and how much of it has been twisted and embellished by Cindy herself. We've seen how she goes on and on in the FBI interview, almost like she is taking bits and pieces of numerous stories and weaving them together to create a whole scenario. I wonder if Casey has heard or read her mother's comments and interviews and what her reaction to them is. Will she deny telling Cindy these things? I worry that the defense will drive the case off course by highlighting Cindy and her inconsistant stories/fabrications and take the focus off of Caylee.

Cindy has stated many things that I don't find to be the truth. I wish more of Casey's txtmsgs were available, as even those little snippets give us insight into what Casey was saying during June/July.

You don't hear Cindy saying things like "Casey slept over at Chris's house when his parents were away" or "Casey showered one morning at Jesse's" or Casey "slept at Ricardo's apt" or ...anything about Will Waters or Tony Rusciano. Gee, did I miss any of Casey's boyfriends.

[need2no]

Bolding mine
That is what I have been trying to verbalize for some time. The only other person to repeat even a portion of these stories is GA and he has indicated that he heard them from CA. The details she gives FBI in those interviews amazes me. One would think after hearing Casey lie for oh so long, you would tune her out when she started spewing yet another whopper of a story. The fact that CA could tell with such great detail a story like that makes me think CA was on a mission that day. Unbelievable....

Gotta wonder where George was at when casey was sharing these stories with Cindy, especially since Cindy told Larry King they didn't talk about this when casey was home. I think it's very telling that George made a point of saying this is what Cindy told him.

[summer]

Gotta wonder where George was at when casey was sharing these stories with Cindy, especially since Cindy told Larry King they didn't talk about this when casey was home. I think it's very telling that George made a point of saying this is what Cindy told him.

Gawd, LE needed a thousand people working this case. You've got a lying perp and 3 lying family members... a gargantuan task sorting through this mess.

[need2no]

Hey Sydney, I know, he waited a year. But the SA has him on the witness list and I think that carries a lot of weight. They don't have the floppy hat guy as a witness, for example. Maybe there's an explanation we haven't heard yet or maybe it's just one of those human nature things that's particular to Thompson and his psychology. I bet the SA has some corroboration for this story. Should be interesting!

Maybe they put him on the list while they try to find something to collaborate his story. Just because he is on the witness list doesn't mean he will be called to testify.

[summer]

Maybe they put him on the list while they try to find something to collaborate his story. Just because he is on the witness list doesn't mean he will be called to testify.

True. For example I don't think L Padilla will ever testify for the prosecution and he's on the list - it's a pretty long list - so anything is possible.

[need2no]

Gawd, LE needed a thousand people working this case. You've got a lying perp and 3 lying family members... a gargantuan task sorting through this mess.

Amen!
Even IF this were the only case they worked in the past year and 3 months, they would have earned their pay and then some.

[summer]

Amen!
Even IF this were the only case they worked in the past year and 3 months, they would have earned their pay and then some.

And not only were they lied to and had to run around in circles but they were smeared constantly by the family in the press. Talk about mental stress. They deserve combat pay and a half.

[Scampi]

(snipped by me)

ish, didn't she tell le at some point about jeff hopkins and his kid and the invisi-nanny arrangement (one of her statements)? i thought she also mentioned some "co-workers" to le she had at the time that le found out hadn't worked there in quite some time.

as far as the goings-on - i believe you are correct. but do you honestly think cindy would not try and find kc sooner if kc didn't have SOME sort of explanation as to where she and caylee were? cindy prolly embellished those tales. could she really have cared so little about caylee?

You have a good memory Syd, I think she mentioned all of that during her interview at Universal with Allen and Melich.

[Dtviewer3]

True. For example I don't think L Padilla will ever testify for the prosecution and he's on the list - it's a pretty long list - so anything is possible.

I agree.

If he does testify it will be very quick.
"Did you bail Casey out" "On what date did you revoke" "Did she help you find Caylee".....done.

[msgatorslayer]

Okay, after digging around a bit, I have a better understanding of these motions. From a laypersons view, anyway. I think, lol.

In the defense motion to dismiss, they should have written down the FACTS. That Caylee Marie Anthony was reported missing, that her body was found, etc all. A short synopsis of the case.

That they do not dispute the FACTS. {We agree that Caylee was reported missing. We also agree it was her body that was found in the woods} However, we do not think it rises to the level of murder one, child abuse, and the death penalty. The FACT is Caylee is dead. We have no FACTS to support how she died.

I THINK, in the defense motion, when they say Casey can't swear to certain FACTS, they are talking about the ME report. The ME saying the COD is homicide. Casey can't swear to and agree with that.

[neid_77]

Thanks for the insight Kat.
This is from a story from the Sentinal that talks about Caseys statements and the Defenses' addendum. I dont understand the argument about her statements and what it means to her Motions to Dismiss:blushing:

'Late Tuesday, Casey Anthony's defense team filed an addendum to its motion to dismiss the first-degree murder and aggravated child abuse charges against her. The state had called the defense's initial motion "legally flawed."

Her attorneys Jose Baez and Andrea Lyon point out again that Caylee's "cause of death is not known and that the prosecution's evidence cannot satisfy the elements of first-degree murder."

They said their motion is based on law enforcement lab results and the Orange County Medical Examiner and Casey Anthony "cannot legally swear" to their findings.

But Casey Anthony did sign a document, swearing to two statements:

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."

"I did tell law enforcement that I had dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez when questioned by law enforcement." '

what i don'[t get is one of them is plain and simply a BOLD FACE LIE!!! she never dropped Caylee off at those apartments..why are they going with this statement? i thought the whole thing went down at J Blanchard park? That's where everything was so "surreal" and it can be proven to be a lie! why did they put that in there if they had any legal smarts...becouse they are trying to prove Casey never had Caylee or didn't know what happened becouse she was with the Nanny? Is the going to be a defense strategy to use the Nanny? just in the motion hearing. I Guess they leave out everything she did inbetween the 31 days until Caylee was reported missing BY HER MOTHER...and her mother had to track her down to do it

[KatieLady]

You have a good memory Syd, I think she mentioned all of that during her interview at Universal with Allen and Melich.

Morning Scampi...just saw your location :lol:

I still can't believe she had the nerve to tell them those lies sitting right there in Universal! It just amazes me!!!

[Scampi]

Morning Scampi...just saw your location :lol:

I still can't believe she had the nerve to tell them those lies sitting right there in Universal! It just amazes me!!!

Hiya Katie!! That interview at Universal is a study in abnormal psychology, casey anthony lied, was caught in the lie and then proceeded to lie again. All the while attempting to flirt and laugh with the Detectives. I don't know how Allen and Melich kept their tempers in check.

[need2no]

Okay, after digging around a bit, I have a better understanding of these motions. From a laypersons view, anyway. I think, lol.

In the defense motion to dismiss, they should have written down the FACTS. That Caylee Marie Anthony was reported missing, that her body was found, etc all. A short synopsis of the case.

That they do not dispute the FACTS. {We agree that Caylee was reported missing. We also agree it was her body that was found in the woods} However, we do not think it rises to the level of murder one, child abuse, and the death penalty. The FACT is Caylee is dead. We have no FACTS to support how she died.

I THINK, in the defense motion, when they say Casey can't swear to certain FACTS, they are talking about the ME report. The ME saying the COD is homicide. Casey can't swear to and agree with that.

BBM

Actually they can state casey can't swear to many of the facts in this case because she allegedly doesn't know what happened to her daughter after she left her with Zenaida. :wink: Remember casey said if she didn't want her daughter she would just have given Caylee to her parents, no need to harm her. :rolleyes:

BBL

[Pierre]

what i don'[t get is one of them is plain and simply a BOLD FACE LIE!!! she never dropped Caylee off at those apartments..why are they going with this statement? i thought the whole thing went down at J Blanchard park? That's where everything was so "surreal" and it can be proven to be a lie! why did they put that in there if they had any legal smarts...becouse they are trying to prove Casey never had Caylee or didn't know what happened becouse she was with the Nanny? Is the going to be a defense strategy to use the Nanny? just in the motion hearing. I Guess they leave out everything she did inbetween the 31 days until Caylee was reported missing BY HER MOTHER...and her mother had to track her down to do it

Caseys story changed before the Blanchard park story ,to left Caylee at the bottom of the stairs once she was told there was video at sawgrass.Before that she dropped Caylee off at the apartment. (I forgot which #). IMO that is very telling.

[summer]

Hiya Katie!! That interview at Universal is a study in abnormal psychology, casey anthony lied, was caught in the lie and then proceeded to lie again. All the while attempting to flirt and laugh with the Detectives. I don't know how Allen and Melich kept their tempers in check.

And didn't Strickland say something like Casey's psychological test results were "indescribable". Quite a wry statement.

[msgatorslayer]

Caseys story changed before the Blanchard park story ,to left Caylee at the bottom of the stairs once she was told there was video at sawgrass.Before that she dropped Caylee off at the apartment. (I forgot which #). IMO that is very telling.

Right, and the BP story wasn't told to LE. She told it to her parents, who told it to Lenny??? She was trying to back peddle after hearing about the cameras and the apartment being empty.

[sydney]

as far as the defense saying there is no cause of death, there have been many cases with no cause of death (s. peterson for one) and it was still determined to be a murder.

[Pierre]

but summer, he didn't come forward for sooooo long - i think his memory may be tainted by all the stuff already out there.

My bold: IIRC he said 6 months Caylee was found on the 5th month.

[impartial]

I have zero luck pulling up documents on the court's website, and I haven't read the parts about Casey's signed statements. When I heard about the statements, however, I immediately thought, "Wow, they better be careful or they are going to waive her right against self-incrimination." A criminal defendant can't testify via sworn declaration but then refuse to be cross-examined about that testimony.

As far as the motions to dismiss, based on how I have seen them characterized by others, the defense basically seems to be arguing that the evidence is insufficient as a matter of law to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Their problem is that it doesn't take much evidence to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Circumstantial evidence is sufficient, and there is a LOT of circumstantial evidence in this case. Cause of death does not need to be proven; the body doesn't even need to have been found. I really don't see any way the judge is going to dismiss this case.

As far as the motion not to monitor the attorney-client jailhouse visits, those visits should be subject to realtime visual monitoring only for jail security purposes and not for improper purposes such as lipreading, trying to get closeups of the attorney's file notes, etc. I agree with Baez (*gasp*) that the jail staff should not be listening in, nor should video or audio recordings of the visits be turned over to the prosecution for their analysis/potential use against Casey.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions


While I agree that there is no way the judge is going to dismiss the case, I do agree that there is insufficient evidence for the death penalty. There is no cause of death and no trauma to the remains.

While some may see this as not being problematic ie no cause of death in the Scott Peterson case, it is abundantly clear that Laci did not drive herself to the Bay area to go swimming. Caylee lived in a house that had a pool, and without a cause of death and the ME declaring there is no trauma to her remains, it is not outside the realm of possibility that Caylee drowned. Nor is it outside the realm of possibility that Casey snapped and killed Caylee without intending to kill her.

Add to that, there is no DNA in the trunk, an FBI agent's and third unknown person's DNA on the duct tape, the heart shape no longer exists on the duct tape, the heart found at the crime scene was attached to a piece of cardboard and is dissimilar to the hearts found at the Anthony home, no fibers at the crime scene transfered from the Anthony home, etc.

There is a ton of circumstantial evidence to implicate Casey in the death of Caylee, but little to no evidence of how it happened ... drowning, Xanax, strangulation, suffocation, etc, to prove premeditation. The first degree murder charge is based on the aggravated child abuse charge. What actual evidence is there to prove aggravated child abuse.

When the State overcharges, they run the risk of losing the whole shootin match.

imo

[Pierre]

as far as the defense saying there is no cause of death, there have been many cases with no cause of death (s. peterson for one) and it was still determined to be a murder.

I would say that finding Caylee tripple bagged with duct tape on her mouth is equal to finding an adult dead with their hands tied together.
It equals murder.

[denjet]

I have zero luck pulling up documents on the court's website, and I haven't read the parts about Casey's signed statements. When I heard about the statements, however, I immediately thought, "Wow, they better be careful or they are going to waive her right against self-incrimination." A criminal defendant can't testify via sworn declaration but then refuse to be cross-examined about that testimony.

As far as the motions to dismiss, based on how I have seen them characterized by others, the defense basically seems to be arguing that the evidence is insufficient as a matter of law to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Their problem is that it doesn't take much evidence to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Circumstantial evidence is sufficient, and there is a LOT of circumstantial evidence in this case. Cause of death does not need to be proven; the body doesn't even need to have been found. I really don't see any way the judge is going to dismiss this case.

As far as the motion not to monitor the attorney-client jailhouse visits, those visits should be subject to realtime visual monitoring only for jail security purposes and not for improper purposes such as lipreading, trying to get closeups of the attorney's file notes, etc. I agree with Baez (*gasp*) that the jail staff should not be listening in, nor should video or audio recordings of the visits be turned over to the prosecution for their analysis/potential use against Casey.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions
Hi Kat!
Thanks for your post ... I was wondering about the statements KC made to put in the amendment ... thanks for putting it into perspective ... when the defense files motions (especially the latest ones) it leaves me thinking either it's really stupid without legal standing or it's some clever defense move ... (I know that's a stretch) Also, knowing Lyon is on the team, I expected her to be filing motions they'd have a good chance of the court granting ... that doesn't seem to hold true so far ...

As far as a motion to dismiss, even a lay person like me thinks HUH? don't they have to take this to trial and let a jury decide if the evidence is enough to convict her ... :blink:

[AlohaRainbow]

I don't think it was her at the puter shop. Casey is not the type to use stolen funds to buy something for her parents, lol.

That we know of, nobody was in need of a monitor. Casey had her Mom's laptop. As long as she had puter access, why would she worry about a monitor for someone else? Doesn't make sense.

if it was casey in the computer store... maybe buying a monitor for tonE?

or, maybe not actually planning to buy one, but wanted to find out info about monitors for some reason?

or, just passing time because she needed to fill her "work hours" away from the house?

[Bala]

as far as the defense saying there is no cause of death, there have been many cases with no cause of death (s. peterson for one) and it was still determined to be a murder.
I think Caylee having duct tape around her mouth and being tripled bagged and thrown out like trash rules out an accident at least where I come from.

[msgatorslayer]

as far as the defense saying there is no cause of death, there have been many cases with no cause of death (s. peterson for one) and it was still determined to be a murder.

Yeah, the COD or 'no body' defense doesn't work to well anymore.

[summer]

While I agree that there is no way the judge is going to dismiss the case, I do agree that there is insufficient evidence for the death penalty. There is no cause of death and no trauma to the remains.

While some may see this as not being problematic ie no cause of death in the Scott Peterson case, it is abundantly clear that Laci did not drive herself to the Bay area to go swimming. Caylee lived in a house that had a pool, and without a cause of death and the ME declaring there is no trauma to her remains, it is not outside the realm of possibility that Caylee drowned. Nor is it outside the realm of possibility that Casey snapped and killed Caylee without intending to kill her.

Add to that, there is no DNA in the trunk, an FBI agent's and third unknown person's DNA on the duct tape, the heart shape no longer exists on the duct tape, the heart found at the crime scene was attached to a piece of cardboard and is dissimilar to the hearts found at the Anthony home, no fibers at the crime scene transfered from the Anthony home, etc.

There is a ton of circumstantial evidence to implicate Casey in the death of Caylee, but little to no evidence of how it happened ... drowning, Xanax, strangulation, suffocation, etc, to prove premeditation. The first degree murder charge is based on the aggravated child abuse charge. What actual evidence is there to prove aggravated child abuse.

When the State overcharges, they run the risk of losing the whole shootin match.

imo

Do you think Caylee wrapped duct tape around her mouth, triple bagged and placed herself in the woods? Plenty of aggravating circumstances. As a matter of fact, I'm aggravated just typing that.

Oopsie, bala got there first... natch. :)

And Pierre too. sigh... :)

[msgatorslayer]

I think Caylee having duct tape around her mouth and being tripled bagged and thrown out like trash rules out an accident at least where I come from.

Yep, and the state can use the computer searches to show planning.

[AlohaRainbow]

Ummm...maybe she thought she could buy it with a (stolen) check and then return it for cash.....
oooh - that's an interesting theory :)

[AlohaRainbow]

my bold

Always wondered about that statement too...When I first heard her say that...I thought of the big fight...or some family secret???


The last known person with Caylee was Casey, but in Casey's statement the last known person with Caylee was ZFG...it will be up to the state to prove her wrong...JMO

but if one were to use her description of leaving caylee alone at the stairwell, then casey still puts herself as the last person to be with caylee

[Scampi]

I don't think the prosecutor's have overcharged in this case. If ever a case calls out for the death penalty this is the one, imo. I'm sure the prosecution will lay out a very grim last few minutes of Caylee for the jury, with the circumstantial evidence to back it up.

As for casey anthony "swearing" to anything, oh how ironic, especially when the motion is before Judge Stan who onced stated that casey and the truth are strangers.

The State will win these motions, imo.

[impartial]

Do you think Caylee wrapped duct tape around her mouth, triple bagged and placed herself in the woods? Plenty of aggravating circumstances. As a matter of fact, I'm aggravated just typing that.


No, but that does not tell us what happened before she died, or how she died. The ME knew about the duct tape at the time it was declared an unknown cause of death, so the tape is not going to be able to be argued as causing her death.

imo

[Dtviewer3]

While I agree that there is no way the judge is going to dismiss the case, I do agree that there is insufficient evidence for the death penalty. There is no cause of death and no trauma to the remains.

While some may see this as not being problematic ie no cause of death in the Scott Peterson case, it is abundantly clear that Laci did not drive herself to the Bay area to go swimming. Caylee lived in a house that had a pool, and without a cause of death and the ME declaring there is no trauma to her remains, it is not outside the realm of possibility that Caylee drowned. Nor is it outside the realm of possibility that Casey snapped and killed Caylee without intending to kill her.

Add to that, there is no DNA in the trunk, an FBI agent's and third unknown person's DNA on the duct tape, the heart shape no longer exists on the duct tape, the heart found at the crime scene was attached to a piece of cardboard and is dissimilar to the hearts found at the Anthony home, no fibers at the crime scene transfered from the Anthony home, etc.

There is a ton of circumstantial evidence to implicate Casey in the death of Caylee, but little to no evidence of how it happened ... drowning, Xanax, strangulation, suffocation, etc, to prove premeditation. The first degree murder charge is based on the aggravated child abuse charge. What actual evidence is there to prove aggravated child abuse.

When the State overcharges, they run the risk of losing the whole shootin match.

imo

And its just as clear Caylee didnt triple bag herself and wrap duct tape around her head.
Though I do see where you are coming from with this, I dont agree.

(Since Kat seems to have left, maybe you can answer a question for me? What is the state and the defense talking about with Caseys statements here:
'Late Tuesday, Casey Anthony's defense team filed an addendum to its motion to dismiss the first-degree murder and aggravated child abuse charges against her. The state had called the defense's initial motion "legally flawed."

Her attorneys Jose Baez and Andrea Lyon point out again that Caylee's "cause of death is not known and that the prosecution's evidence cannot satisfy the elements of first-degree murder."

They said their motion is based on law enforcement lab results and the Orange County Medical Examiner and Casey Anthony "cannot legally swear" to their findings.

But Casey Anthony did sign a document, swearing to two statements:

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."

"I did tell law enforcement that I had dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez when questioned by law enforcement." ')

Thanks....always nice to have another lawyer chiming in here!

[Bala]

I have zero luck pulling up documents on the court's website, and I haven't read the parts about Casey's signed statements. When I heard about the statements, however, I immediately thought, "Wow, they better be careful or they are going to waive her right against self-incrimination." A criminal defendant can't testify via sworn declaration but then refuse to be cross-examined about that testimony.

As far as the motions to dismiss, based on how I have seen them characterized by others, the defense basically seems to be arguing that the evidence is insufficient as a matter of law to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Their problem is that it doesn't take much evidence to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Circumstantial evidence is sufficient, and there is a LOT of circumstantial evidence in this case. Cause of death does not need to be proven; the body doesn't even need to have been found. I really don't see any way the judge is going to dismiss this case.

As far as the motion not to monitor the attorney-client jailhouse visits, those visits should be subject to realtime visual monitoring only for jail security purposes and not for improper purposes such as lipreading, trying to get closeups of the attorney's file notes, etc. I agree with Baez (*gasp*) that the jail staff should not be listening in, nor should video or audio recordings of the visits be turned over to the prosecution for their analysis/potential use against Casey.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions
I agree with you that the State should not have access to the video of Baez and Casey to try and use to get privilege info but I think Baez is worried about what they'll see on the tape like him smuggling in mail to Casey from her parents. It seems strange to me that he asked for this after Cindy&George report to the media that they would no longer go through him to get letters to Casey but send them through the mail. Casey should get no special treatment and be subjected to everything every other inmate must go through.

[summer]

No, but that does not tell us what happened before she died, or how she died. The ME knew about the duct tape at the time it was declared an unknown cause of death, so the tape is not going to be able to be argued as causing her death.

imo

IMO the jury will be able to draw their own conclusions. They won't be from Planet Xeno. They're not fools like the Anthonys think everyone is. Duct tape + baby in woods + triple bags + lies upon lies upon lies. Plus 31 days. Plus the mother NEVER reported her child missing. Plus plus plus......

She was indicted in 30 minutes before the body was even found. I'm not worried that justice will be served -- upon the whole family.

[Pruddennce]

Something very interesting I've noticed in this case is that so much of what went on during that month from June 15th til Cindy called 911, came from Cindy directly.

Casey as far as we know didn't tell any of these stories about car accidents, Jeff Hopkins and his kid and his mother's wedding, and all these wacky goings on, to LE. These are all Cindy's tales, that she allegedly heard from Casey.

Casey has only talked about what happened the day she left Caylee at Sawgrass apt 210.

We don't know how much of what Cindy is saying is actually what Casey told her and how much of it has been twisted and embellished by Cindy herself. We've seen how she goes on and on in the FBI interview, almost like she is taking bits and pieces of numerous stories and weaving them together to create a whole scenario. I wonder if Casey has heard or read her mother's comments and interviews and what her reaction to them is. Will she deny telling Cindy these things? I worry that the defense will drive the case off course by highlighting Cindy and her inconsistant stories/fabrications and take the focus off of Caylee.

the problem with Cindy and her interviews with LE/FBI is this:

she did not tell them 'what she knew personally'. she simply told them 'what was being told to her by Casey'. fancy lying.

she knew Casey was returning to the home and taking things: she withheld that information from LE but told Brittany about it: she stated to Brittany she was being baited out of the home. this is what she personally knew as fact.

she withheld from LE/FBI that Lee went to find her and reported back 'she is local'. this is what she personally knew as fact. she WAS NOT in Jacksonville with Jeff H and his supposed son. yet she continues telling LE/FBI 'this is what Casey told me'. she knew it wasnt true.

she knew Casey was using her JC Penny card. she withheld that information from LE/FBI. *I checked, there is nothing on the statement*.....when confronted with her lie, she blamed LEE for not turning it in.

she knew personally that Casey was a thief, having stolen from family members AND, the nite of the 16th, was informed directly by Amy, that her account was wiped out. she withheld that information from LE/FBI.

she knew personally that the blanket was missing. when? this excited utterance did not occur until her remains were found and it was noted on the search warrant.

she knew personally she did not have any contact information on the supposed babysitter. yet, she lied and said she had AN ADDRESS. however, whether she did or didnt, the end result is this: she said she had an address, yet she doesnt 'offer up' information as it relates to HER checking it out or not checking it out.

she contacts Amy? why, if she had an address for the babysitter. an address she supposedly had in her possession the entire month. Once she found out she was local, which was July 3rd, why didnt she drive there?

and if she really did have an address, she would have known it was bogus if she drove there. which she should have told LE. but she didnt tell them anything...she merely said I HAVE AN ADDRESS.

Cindy made many attempts to compromise the investigation. 'what she personally knew as fact' was never offered up.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[impartial]

And its just as clear Caylee didnt triple bag herself and wrap duct tape around her head.
Though I do see where you are coming from with this, I dont agree.

(Since Kat seems to have left, maybe you can answer a question for me? What is the state and the defense talking about with Caseys statements here:
'Late Tuesday, Casey Anthony's defense team filed an addendum to its motion to dismiss the first-degree murder and aggravated child abuse charges against her. The state had called the defense's initial motion "legally flawed."

Her attorneys Jose Baez and Andrea Lyon point out again that Caylee's "cause of death is not known and that the prosecution's evidence cannot satisfy the elements of first-degree murder."

They said their motion is based on law enforcement lab results and the Orange County Medical Examiner and Casey Anthony "cannot legally swear" to their findings.

But Casey Anthony did sign a document, swearing to two statements:

"I did not report my daughter missing until my mother called on July 15, 2008."

"I did tell law enforcement that I had dropped off my child with a person named Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez when questioned by law enforcement." ')

Thanks....always nice to have another lawyer chiming in here!


I wasn't able to pull up the addendum. The link that was upthread takes you to a page that indicates no longer exists.

I'm also not familiar with Florida procedural laws, but it sounds like a declaration of some sort is needed to support the Motion to Dismiss; and without such, the State is saying the Motion is legally flawed.

I agree with Kat that they are playing with fire if in fact they had Casey sign a declaration to support their motion. Perhaps they used a portion of her interview with LE to support their motion. I trust AL would not subject her client to a waiver of her fifth amendment rights, but you never know.

imo

[MorningGlory]

I have zero luck pulling up documents on the court's website, and I haven't read the parts about Casey's signed statements. When I heard about the statements, however, I immediately thought, "Wow, they better be careful or they are going to waive her right against self-incrimination." A criminal defendant can't testify via sworn declaration but then refuse to be cross-examined about that testimony.
As far as the motions to dismiss, based on how I have seen them characterized by others, the defense basically seems to be arguing that the evidence is insufficient as a matter of law to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Their problem is that it doesn't take much evidence to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Circumstantial evidence is sufficient, and there is a LOT of circumstantial evidence in this case. Cause of death does not need to be proven; the body doesn't even need to have been found. I really don't see any way the judge is going to dismiss this case.

As far as the motion not to monitor the attorney-client jailhouse visits, those visits should be subject to realtime visual monitoring only for jail security purposes and not for improper purposes such as lipreading, trying to get closeups of the attorney's file notes, etc. I agree with Baez (*gasp*) that the jail staff should not be listening in, nor should video or audio recordings of the visits be turned over to the prosecution for their analysis/potential use against Casey.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Bolding mine.
Wow! Thanks for your insight (again), Kat. Could this be the intention of the state in requesting a sworn statement from Casey - to open her up to cross examination? Sure sounds like the defense walked right into that with these two statements. jmo of course

[denjet]

Okay, after digging around a bit, I have a better understanding of these motions. From a laypersons view, anyway. I think, lol.

In the defense motion to dismiss, they should have written down the FACTS. That Caylee Marie Anthony was reported missing, that her body was found, etc all. A short synopsis of the case.

That they do not dispute the FACTS. {We agree that Caylee was reported missing. We also agree it was her body that was found in the woods} However, we do not think it rises to the level of murder one, child abuse, and the death penalty. The FACT is Caylee is dead. We have no FACTS to support how she died.

I THINK, in the defense motion, when they say Casey can't swear to certain FACTS, they are talking about the ME report. The ME saying the COD is homicide. Casey can't swear to and agree with that.

Hi msgator!
All of this legal mumbo jumbo boggles the mind ... common sense tells me that KC can't swear or agree to anything because (as she's already stated over and over) SHE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED !!

Common sense also tells me the word of a person charged with 1st degree murder and pleading not guilty is NOT enough to drop charges against them ...

Maybe the defense is saying based on what evidence they've seen so far, there is not enough for the capital murder charge ... but my question is HAVE they seen ALL the evidence that will be used at trial ??? I mean depositions are still going on for pete's sake !

[Ellie]

I don't think the prosecutor's have overcharged in this case. If ever a case calls out for the death penalty this is the one, imo. I'm sure the prosecution will lay out a very grim last few minutes of Caylee for the jury, with the circumstantial evidence to back it up.

As for casey anthony "swearing" to anything, oh how ironic, especially when the motion is before Judge Stan who onced stated that casey and the truth are strangers.

The State will win these motions, imo.

While I completely understand where the OP is coming from, I agree with you here. I also think the State has sooooo much we don't know about.... I mean Casey has been incarcerated for how long based on what they have, which if all we know is all they have I don't think they could keep her (could they?).

[Pruddennce]

No, but that does not tell us what happened before she died, or how she died. The ME knew about the duct tape at the time it was declared an unknown cause of death, so the tape is not going to be able to be argued as causing her death.

imo

The ME specifically states due to the position of the jaw it was placed there BEFORE DECOMPOSITION: a determination cannot cannot be made if death occurred by employing use of the tape or applied after death.

however, an inference can be drawn from the use of duct tape on the mouth. to stifle cries being the #1 reason. additional 'reasons' can be brought forth, *make it look like a kidnapping*, etc.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[Dtviewer3]

I wasn't able to pull up the addendum. The link that was upthread takes you to a page that indicates no longer exists.

I'm also not familiar with Florida procedural laws, but it sounds like a declaration of some sort is needed to support the Motion to Dismiss; and without such, the State is saying the Motion is legally flawed.

I agree with Kat that they are playing with fire if in fact they had Casey sign a declaration to support their motion. Perhaps they used a portion of her interview with LE to support their motion. I trust AL would not subject her client to a waiver of her fifth amendment rights, but you never know.

imo

Thanks Impartial.
That sentence I highlighted above clicked for me.

I get the feeling from the Sates response and Ashtons earlier response to the motions last week that the State doesnt have much respect for the Defense team.
They seem to 'needle' the Defense team quite a bit.

[impartial]

The ME specifically states due to the position of the jaw it was placed there BEFORE DECOMPOSITION: a determination cannot cannot be made if death occurred by employing use of the tape or applied after death.

however, an inference can be drawn from the use of duct tape on the mouth. to stifle cries being the #1 reason. additional 'reasons' can be brought forth, *make it look like a kidnapping*, etc.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*


Hey Pru,

Did any maggot evidence ever come out?

TIA

[Pierre]

While I agree that there is no way the judge is going to dismiss the case, I do agree that there is insufficient evidence for the death penalty. There is no cause of death and no trauma to the remains.

While some may see this as not being problematic ie no cause of death in the Scott Peterson case, it is abundantly clear that Laci did not drive herself to the Bay area to go swimming. Caylee lived in a house that had a pool, and without a cause of death and the ME declaring there is no trauma to her remains, it is not outside the realm of possibility that Caylee drowned. Nor is it outside the realm of possibility that Casey snapped and killed Caylee without intending to kill her.

Add to that, there is no DNA in the trunk, an FBI agent's and third unknown person's DNA on the duct tape, the heart shape no longer exists on the duct tape, the heart found at the crime scene was attached to a piece of cardboard and is dissimilar to the hearts found at the Anthony home, no fibers at the crime scene transfered from the Anthony home, etc.

There is a ton of circumstantial evidence to implicate Casey in the death of Caylee, but little to no evidence of how it happened ... drowning, Xanax, strangulation, suffocation, etc, to prove premeditation. The first degree murder charge is based on the aggravated child abuse charge. What actual evidence is there to prove aggravated child abuse.

When the State overcharges, they run the risk of losing the whole shootin match.

imo
I agree with this post except I think the problem will be determning if it was first Degree. It seems to me that casey didnt plan anything in her life ahead of time.
Jury members want to know how it happened, but I dont think the law requires it. IMO

[impartial]

Thanks Impartial.
That sentence I highlighted above clicked for me.

I get the feeling from the Sates response and Ashtons earlier response to the motions last week that the State doesnt have much respect for the Defense team.
They seem to 'needle' the Defense team quite a bit.


While there is no reason to have any respect for Baez, they would be foolish not to have respect for AL or LKB. These are the kind of lawyers that one needs to pay attention to, otherwise, they could get hit with something out of left field that they failed to anticipate.

imo

[Pruddennce]

Hey Pru,

Did any maggot evidence ever come out?

TIA

hey impartial: NO! GRRRRRRRRRR :laugh:


IMO

best regards,
Pru


*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[Pierre]

if it was casey in the computer store... maybe buying a monitor for tonE?

or, maybe not actually planning to buy one, but wanted to find out info about monitors for some reason?

or, just passing time because she needed to fill her "work hours" away from the house?

I vote C- just passing time, while everyone else works.

[impartial]

hey impartial: NO! GRRRRRRRRRR :laugh:


IMO

best regards,
Pru


*waiting on maggot evidence....*


Well that's odd. It's been a long time since I reviewed that portion of the case, but didn't they send the maggots found in the trunk out for testing? Wasn't that one of the complaints by the defense that Dr. Lee hadn't been told about this testing and/or the results. Or am I confusing it with something else.

[Pruddennce]

I agree with this post except I think the problem will be determning if it was first Degree. It seems to me that casey didnt plan anything in her life ahead of time.
Jury members want to know how it happened, but I dont think the law requires it. IMO

Casey was adept at planning her outings...COME TO FUSIAN!

Casey did plan many things: she had no income, however, she was constantly scheming 'as things came up' as to how she was going to obtain money to pay this, buy that.

that takes some thought. she had to figure out who to steal from next.

Casey 'looked' for opportunities to steal. always looking. for instance, Caylee's 2nd birthday: grandmom had a checkbook, Casey saw it. if there was no checkbook, she would be looking somewhere else. She didnt have any money to buy the things she wanted for the party, so she 'planned' on stealing. from someone.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence...*

[Pruddennce]

Well that's odd. It's been a long time since I reviewed that portion of the case, but didn't they send the maggots found in the trunk out for testing? Wasn't that one of the complaints by the defense that Dr. Lee hadn't been told about this testing and/or the results. Or am I confusing it with something else.

many notations about them being gathered and sent out for testing. no results have been released in the doc dumps.

Lee complained about not having all of the items from the trunk available to test himself. results? probably that as well, IIRC.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[MK~ULTRA]

While there is no reason to have any respect for Baez, they would be foolish not to have respect for AL or LKB. These are the kind of lawyers that one needs to pay attention to, otherwise, they could get hit with something out of left field that they failed to anticipate.

imo

ummm... yeah. LKB's left field opening remarks in the first Spector trial were neither anticipated or believed.

Her remarks were factually wrong.

[impartial]

ummm... yeah. LKB's left field opening remarks in the first Spector trial were neither anticipated or believed.

Her remarks were factually wrong.

And yet, the first trial ended in a hung jury. I think her opening statement, whether factually right or wrong, was a huge factor in opening the door for reasonable doubt.

imo

[Pierre]

Casey was adept at planning her outings...COME TO FUSIAN!

Casey did plan many things: she had no income, however, she was constantly scheming 'as things came up' as to how she was going to obtain money to pay this, buy that.

that takes some thought. she had to figure out who to steal from next.

Casey 'looked' for opportunities to steal. always looking. for instance, Caylee's 2nd birthday: grandmom had a checkbook, Casey saw it. if there was no checkbook, she would be looking somewhere else. She didnt have any money to buy the things she wanted for the party, so she 'planned' on stealing. from someone.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence...*
so, yes she was planning on making a plan. If casey did plan on killing Caylee she surely didnt have a plan for her body.

[Pruddennce]

Im interested in knowing how she paid for her tattoo and how much it cost.

and she was planning on another one that saturday, prior to being arrested.

I dont recall seeing an invoice nor interview by LE asking the tattoo guys how she paid for it.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[summer]

Im interested in knowing how she paid for her tattoo and how much it cost.

and she was planning on another one that saturday, prior to being arrested.

I dont recall seeing an invoice nor interview by LE asking the tattoo guys how she paid for it.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

Hey Pru. Pay you Thursday for a hamburger today? :smile:

[summer]

And yet, the first trial ended in a hung jury. I think her opening statement, whether factually right or wrong, was a huge factor in opening the door for reasonable doubt.

imo

I didn't follow that trial so this is third-hand but wasn't it one rogue juror? The foreman I believe. Anyway, I heard it had nothing to do, good or bad, with L. Baden.

[Pierre]

Hey Pru. Pay you Thursday for a hamburger today? :smile:
The description of Casey by Thompson tells me how she may have paid for her tat.

[impartial]

I didn't follow that trial so this is third-hand but wasn't it one rogue juror? The foreman I believe. Anyway, I heard it had nothing to do, good or bad, with L. Baden.


I watched the trial. I thought they had him dead to rights, and wondered how in the heck they were going to put on any kind of defense. After LKB's opening statement, I was like, wow, they do have some things to talk about.

The hung jury was actually kind of a blessing, the second trial came fairly early. The judge's rulings relative to the jury instructions were not good, and grounds for an appeal if they had convicted him at the first trial.

imo

[Pruddennce]

so, yes she was planning on making a plan. If casey did plan on killing Caylee she surely didnt have a plan for her body.

premeditation can be formulated in a blink of an eye. the end result, what of disposal, not so easily accomplished: huge stain in trunk? she was unable to dispose of Caylee quickly because she did not have funds for fuel to travel very far. she drove around locally, stole gas from family, went and rented videos with Tony that nite, went to Fusian friday nite, wondering what to do. down the street was a last resort, IMO.

the car: she did not want to spend time cleaning it to try to get rid of the smell. so she dumped it. coupled with the fact, she did not have any money to go very far.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[LadyHam]

I wonder why it is taking so long for Judge Strickland to set the date for the fraud trial? I think it has been close to a month now since he made this ruling, and yet we still don't have a court date. I don't know, maybe this is how things are done, but I would have expected to have a court date by now. Do you think this may be one of the items up for discussion during the next court hearing on the 16th?

[Pruddennce]

Hey Pru. Pay you Thursday for a hamburger today? :smile:

you are probably right :D I do recall reading Amy's text messages from someone asking HER if she knew if Casey had their money to pay them. I forget who that was.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[BettyC]

you are probably right :D I do recall reading Amy's text messages from someone asking HER if she knew if Casey had their money to pay them. I forget who that was.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

IIRC it ws Ricardo.

Re: the conversation earlier about what Cindy said to Casey in their jail visit of 7/25.

Cindy - at 0:36 - We forgive anything you've said.
Casey - I haven't said anything, don't worry.

http://www.wftv.com/video/18205452/index.html

I've said this previously but I recall Cindy talking to someone, not sure if it was a talk show or to reporters, but she said that Casey had to know she'd be forgiven before she'd tell them anything. I've always believed that's why Cindy started off the conversation this way on this visit.

[Pruddennce]

The description of Casey by Thompson tells me how she may have paid for her tat.

well, according to him 'it was during the lunchtime' he saw her at Walmart in her skimpy clothes (dont know what he considers lunchtime clockwise); so that means, Casey changed in the car from her gray slacks and 'dressy blouse' she had on when GA saw her while he watched his cooking show at 12:50pm?

the slacks he said she was wearing were in the car. what of the blouse?

I must note that I dont believe GA at all. I think the clothes he described was something CA used as her 'work costume' for her imaginary job; something he pulled from his memory of the last couple of years of watching her leave to 'go to work'.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence........*

[Pruddennce]

IIRC it ws Ricardo.

Re: the conversation earlier about what Cindy said to Casey in their jail visit of 7/25.

Cindy - at 0:36 - We forgive anything you've said.
Casey - I haven't said anything, don't worry.

http://www.wftv.com/video/18205452/index.html

I've said this previously but I recall Cindy talking to someone, not sure if it was a talk show or to reporters, but she said that Casey had to know she'd be forgiven before she'd tell them anything. I've always believed that's why Cindy started off the conversation this way on this visit.

Betty, I think you are right.....thank you.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[Pruddennce]

IIRC it ws Ricardo.

Re: the conversation earlier about what Cindy said to Casey in their jail visit of 7/25.

Cindy - at 0:36 - We forgive anything you've said.
Casey - I haven't said anything, don't worry.

http://www.wftv.com/video/18205452/index.html

I've said this previously but I recall Cindy talking to someone, not sure if it was a talk show or to reporters, but she said that Casey had to know she'd be forgiven before she'd tell them anything. I've always believed that's why Cindy started off the conversation this way on this visit.

my bold: you are correct:

“I forgive her,” Cindy Anthony said. “I have not said that to her.”

“Forgive her for what?” Curry asked.

“For not telling me sooner, for not telling the police sooner,” Cindy Anthony answered. “Someone can’t come to grips until they’re forgiven. She’s probably not going to be able to tell me everything until I can forgive her.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25780516/

her forgiveness ploy didnt work. OBVIOUSLY.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[Spots]

IIRC it ws Ricardo.

Re: the conversation earlier about what Cindy said to Casey in their jail visit of 7/25.

Cindy - at 0:36 - We forgive anything you've said. Or done.
Casey - I haven't said anything, don't worry.

http://www.wftv.com/video/18205452/index.html

I've said this previously but I recall Cindy talking to someone, not sure if it was a talk show or to reporters, but she said that Casey had to know she'd be forgiven before she'd tell them anything. I've always believed that's why Cindy started off the conversation this way on this visit.

Correction in red.

Note that Casey did not address this second area of forgiveness.

[Pruddennce]

Correction in red.

Note that Casey did not address this second area of forgiveness.

right.....and obviously something was lost in translation. Casey was NOT addressing her mother's proclamation at all. She was 'thinking' something else entirely.

and I think it goes back to Cindy's use of the word "BETRAYAL" in her blog online to Casey. it was an odd word to use between mother and daughter.

WIERD.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[cassidy]

my bold: you are correct:

“I forgive her,” Cindy Anthony said. “I have not said that to her.”

“Forgive her for what?” Curry asked.

“For not telling me sooner, for not telling the police sooner,” Cindy Anthony answered. “Someone can’t come to grips until they’re forgiven. She’s probably not going to be able to tell me everything until I can forgive her.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25780516/

her forgiveness ploy didnt work. OBVIOUSLY.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*


How can you forgive someone unless you know what you are forgiving them for? :shrug:

[Barbara fl.]

I didn't follow that trial so this is third-hand but wasn't it one rogue juror? The foreman I believe. Anyway, I heard it had nothing to do, good or bad, with L. Baden.


Maybe so, but LKB certainly took credit for it....That's all these attornies want to do is get to that one lone juror to give a hung jury and they feel as though they won their case...

But, Casey won't be as lucky as PS, she doesn't have the money to get out on bond pending a new trial,....she will stay put...

[Barbara fl.]

And yet, the first trial ended in a hung jury. I think her opening statement, whether factually right or wrong, was a huge factor in opening the door for reasonable doubt.

imo


Correct, and that is all this defense is going to have in this case...opening and closing arguements....

But, lets remember , that was all Geragos had and it back fired on him...he wasn't able to prove anything he claimed in the opening statement....Let's just hope that this jury will react the same....I really hate to go thru all this again in another year after this trial....

But of course, if it should happen, Casey will still be where she is going to be for the rest of her life...:biggrin:

[Spots]

How can you forgive someone unless you know what you are forgiving them for? :shrug:

A typical response from Cynthia: Carte Blanche for Casey, blame for everyone else.

[Spots]

Maybe so, but LKB certainly took credit for it....That's all these attornies want to do is get to that one lone juror to give a hung jury and they feel as though they won their case...

But, Casey won't be as lucky as PS, she doesn't have the money to get out on bond pending a new trial,....she will stay put...

There is *no* bail in first-degree murder cases in Florida. Even Bill Gates couldn't get her out of this one.

[martha]

Correct, and that is all this defense is going to have in this case...opening and closing arguements....

But, lets remember , that was all Geragos had and it back fired on him...he wasn't able to prove anything he claimed in the opening statement....Let's just hope that this jury will react the same....I really hate to go thru all this again in another year after this trial....

But of course, if it should happen, Casey will still be where she is going to be for the rest of her life...:biggrin:Hi sweetie, I sure hope you or right no matter how many trials they have I sure hope she stayes in jail the whole time. I did not watch that tiral of sp but I really think he got what was coming to him.Lacy;s mother just broke my heart and still does to this day. I just don;t understand how cindy acts about her gd.I guess I just will never understand a mother not telling anyone her baby was missing. If she had not done anything to Caylee why would she not tell everyone she was missing?jmho:wub:

[impartial]

IIRC it ws Ricardo.

Re: the conversation earlier about what Cindy said to Casey in their jail visit of 7/25.

Cindy - at 0:36 - We forgive anything you've said.
Casey - I haven't said anything, don't worry.

http://www.wftv.com/video/18205452/index.html

I've said this previously but I recall Cindy talking to someone, not sure if it was a talk show or to reporters, but she said that Casey had to know she'd be forgiven before she'd tell them anything. I've always believed that's why Cindy started off the conversation this way on this visit.


Maybe I'm more sinister, but that whole conversation was weird, and Cindy was worried about what she might say.

As for Cindy explaining it later, I don't put much stock into anything Cindy says ... she spins when she thinks there is a need to spin, even when there isn't a need.

imo

[Barbara fl.]

There is *no* bail in first-degree murder cases in Florida. Even Bill Gates couldn't get her out of this one.


Your right, I forgot this is a capital case.....so she should know that she isn't going anywhere....

I doubt very much if she thinks that she will be found "not guilty"....:thumbdown:

[hello its me]

And yet, the first trial ended in a hung jury. I think her opening statement, whether factually right or wrong, was a huge factor in opening the door for reasonable doubt.

imo


LKB gets no credit for that. A monkey could have presented the case and that juror would have voted not guilty. She was a mess. I watched her lose her place and be unable to come back with coherent questions to the true forensic experts. She hasn't earned my respect.

[PrincessR]

please forgive me if I do this wrong I have been lurking for a while and I just wanted to know if anyone thought the defense team was going to start jumping ship soon. It seems like this is headed the way

[Barbara fl.]

Hi sweetie, I sure hope you or right no matter how many trials they have I sure hope she stayes in jail the whole time. I did not watch that tiral of sp but I really think he got what was coming to him.Lacy;s mother just broke my heart and still does to this day. I just don;t understand how cindy acts about her gd.I guess I just will never understand a mother not telling anyone her baby was missing. If she had not done anything to Caylee why would she not tell everyone she was missing?jmho:wub:

I don't even consider her to be human....and funny you bring up SP case, I see alot of simularities between Scott and Casey....I am trying to get in some exercise lately and get bored so I read, and I happen to be reading "for Laci" by Sharon Roacha......the two of them (Casey and Scott) are so alike....

[impartial]

please forgive me if I do this wrong I have been lurking for a while and I just wanted to know if anyone thought the defense team was going to start jumping ship soon. It seems like this is headed the way


You can't really just jump ship.

A motion to withdraw has to be made and ruled on. The ruling will depend on the grounds for the motion and the proximity to the trial date.

imo

[Barbara fl.]

please forgive me if I do this wrong I have been lurking for a while and I just wanted to know if anyone thought the defense team was going to start jumping ship soon. It seems like this is headed the way


Welcome to teh board,

I truely doubt that they will jump ship...just too much publicity attached to this case....I believe they will give it their best shot....

[Spots]

please forgive me if I do this wrong I have been lurking for a while and I just wanted to know if anyone thought the defense team was going to start jumping ship soon. It seems like this is headed the way

Welcome aboard, PrincessR. You did just fine.

Here's an article written by a person who also thinks the defense may abandon the case. You're not the only one who thinks this may happen.

http://blinkoncrime.com/

[Barbara fl.]

LKB gets no credit for that. A monkey could have presented the case and that juror would have voted not guilty. She was a mess. I watched her lose her place and be unable to come back with coherent questions to the true forensic experts. She hasn't earned my respect.


I agree with what you say about LKB....but she only got a "hung jury" nothing near a "not guilty" and that was only due to that one lone juror...

[BettyC]

Maybe I'm more sinister, but that whole conversation was weird, and Cindy was worried about what she might say.

As for Cindy explaining it later, I don't put much stock into anything Cindy says ... she spins when she thinks there is a need to spin, even when there isn't a need.

imo


I could be wrong but I thought Cindy came up with that statement BEFORE she went to visit Casey. That's why I've always had it straight in my head what it was all about.

[PrincessR]

You can't really just jump ship.

A motion to withdraw has to be made and ruled on. The ruling will depend on the grounds for the motion and the proximity to the trial date.

imo

so does that mean that it can be denied. I guess the reason why I ask is at some point jose will want to save what is left of his career and turning it around making it like Casey would not take his advise might just save him for his media tour... what is imo? just asking

[BettyC]

my bold: you are correct:

“I forgive her,” Cindy Anthony said. “I have not said that to her.”

“Forgive her for what?” Curry asked.

“For not telling me sooner, for not telling the police sooner,” Cindy Anthony answered. “Someone can’t come to grips until they’re forgiven. She’s probably not going to be able to tell me everything until I can forgive her.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25780516/

her forgiveness ploy didnt work. OBVIOUSLY.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*


Thank you very much for validating my memory Pru !! lol She said that on July 21st and the jail visit was July 25th.

[impartial]

so does that mean that it can be denied. I guess the reason why I ask is at some point jose will want to save what is left of his career and turning it around making it like Casey would not take his advise might just save him for his media tour... what is imo? just asking


Yes, it can be denied ... the court takes into consideration the grounds for the motion ie. is there a conflict of interest if the attorney continues the representation; the costs expended by the defendant (or the state if appointed); the likelihood that the trial would have to be continued to allow new counsel to get up to speed on the case, etc.

A true conflict of interests is normally grounds that will allow the withdrawal ... an attorney cannot knowingly allow their client to lie while under oath, otherwise the attorney is complicit in perjury and a fraud upon the court. So, if your client lies, and you know they are lying, while testifying under oath, it creates a conflict for the attorney, and are grounds for withdrawal.

imo

[Dtviewer3]

You can't really just jump ship.

A motion to withdraw has to be made and ruled on. The ruling will depend on the grounds for the motion and the proximity to the trial date.

imo

If the death penalty is taken off the table can/will AL be able to step away?

[Dtviewer3]

Yes, it can be denied ... the court takes into consideration the grounds for the motion ie. is there a conflict of interest if the attorney continues the representation; the costs expended by the defendant (or the state if appointed); the likelihood that the trial would have to be continued to allow new counsel to get up to speed on the case, etc.

A true conflict of interests is normally grounds that will allow the withdrawal ... an attorney cannot knowingly allow their client to lie while under oath, otherwise the attorney is complicit in perjury and a fraud upon the court. So, if your client lies, and you know they are lying, while testifying under oath, it creates a conflict for the attorney, and are grounds for withdrawal.

imo

If the death penalty is taken off the table can/will AL be able to walk away?

[impartial]

If the death penalty is taken off the table can/will AL be able to step away?


Yes, since she was brought in for that purpose ... the defense team had to have a death qualified attorney. If the state withdraws the death penalty, she would be able to withdraw. Her withdrawal at that point would not have an impact on the remainder of the case.

As long as the withdrawal does not impact the defendant's rights or the trial, there's no problem.

imo

[Pierre]

well, according to him 'it was during the lunchtime' he saw her at Walmart in her skimpy clothes (dont know what he considers lunchtime clockwise); so that means, Casey changed in the car from her gray slacks and 'dressy blouse' she had on when GA saw her while he watched his cooking show at 12:50pm?

the slacks he said she was wearing were in the car. what of the blouse?

I must note that I dont believe GA at all. I think the clothes he described was something CA used as her 'work costume' for her imaginary job; something he pulled from his memory of the last couple of years of watching her leave to 'go to work'.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence........*

I believe Thompson over George Anthony anyday.

[Dtviewer3]

I believe Thompson over George Anthony anyday.

I agree with you that Thompson would be less likely to lie than George, but I think there is a chance that Thompson could be mistaken.
(about when he saw her, not about her cleavage! J/K!)

[BlueTurtle]

As far as the motion not to monitor the attorney-client jailhouse visits, those visits should be subject to realtime visual monitoring only for jail security purposes and not for improper purposes such as lipreading, trying to get closeups of the attorney's file notes, etc. I agree with Baez (*gasp*) that the jail staff should not be listening in, nor should video or audio recordings of the visits be turned over to the prosecution for their analysis/potential use against Casey.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Has there been an actual incident that the jail has recorded a session of Baez and Casey and turned it over to the prosecution?

If not, then they are blowing hot air for something that is not happening.

The recording of her reaction to the tv news was not priviledged and I could understand them recording that even though I don't think it will come into play during the trial. I think it would be a distraction from the main focus of the case: the 31 days of Bella Vita.

[Scampi]

Can't snip a word, Pru. You framed this up perfectly. Anyone who still thinks Cindy was simply "confused" by Casey's lies and didn't know what to do other than to repeat them to the authorities, needs to re-read your post.

That was an excellent summation wasn't it? cynthia anthony should thank her lucky stars she has not been arrested for obstruction, imo.

[Spots]

That was an excellent summation wasn't it? cynthia anthony should thank her lucky stars she has not been arrested for obstruction, imo.

Cynthia should thank her lucky stars Pru doesn't have a badge in Orange County. :D

[ish]

You have a good memory Syd, I think she mentioned all of that during her interview at Universal with Allen and Melich.

She talked about Jeff and his son and Zanny but it wasn't in regard to her dating him and looking to move in with him to create a family. She told LE that she had met Zanny thru Jeff, and that he and Juliet Lewis were two people who knew of the existance of Zanny.

I don't think she talked to LE ever about Zanny's car accident, or Jeff's mom having cancer, or 95% of the crap Cindy was spewing in her interview with the FBI.

When exactly did Casey tell Cindy all these stories, none of it is in the texts, her phone calls didn't last long enough to go into all those details. Once Casey was home without Caylee and the police were involved, Casey can't create all these tales about the car accident and such because Cindy now knows Zanny supposedly kidnapped Caylee back in June. The only odd statement Cindy makes to Casey is in the jail interview, when she asks Casey flat out, "why didn't she come back for the car, it doesn't make sense" Who is the she Cindy is referring to? Amy? Zanny?

[msgatorslayer]

Can't snip a word, Pru. You framed this up perfectly. Anyone who still thinks Cindy was simply "confused" by Casey's lies and didn't know what to do other than to repeat them to the authorities, needs to re-read your post.

Piggy backing off your post, ITA. Well put, Pru!!!

The only thing Cindy knew for FACT was that her Daughter was evading and lying to her for 31 days. But she repeated her lying Daughter's faux adventures instead of telling them what she really knew.

[crimeq]

I am confused about these depositions and the video taped questioning of cynthia and george by the FBI and Detective Allen and Melich. Those were under oath also and as we know, lying to the FBI in a criminal matter is against the law.

I think both parents have skated very close to the edge here.

IIRC, cynthia even balked at signing her statements at one point..

Hi Scampi :seeya: I remember she objected to swearing that she'd told the truth in an LE interview, she said swear? nobody said swear? I wasn't asked to do that before!

Hahahahaha, gotcha Cindy.

[shellzbi]

Why hasn't LE brought charges against Cindy, Geo. or Lee Anthony for lying and hindering LE
in a homicide investigation?

Been thinking bout this for over a year. Thank You to anyone who will reply in anyway.

[MGM111]

I bet Casey is flipping out at half the stuff her mom said. She probably figured, OK, whatever she has to do to get me out of this, fine. Which is what probably happened many times in the past... "I'll handle this, Casey..." But the stories didn't help her much this time, did they.

Hello Summer....
Could explain the odd statement casey made in the background of the 911 call "why do they want to talk to me"...her mother may have always handled the uncomfortable/unexplainable/inappropriate behavior of her little sociopath....me thinks theres trouble brewing down the road for mrs. cindy.