View Full Version : Natasha Cournoyer, 37, 10/01/09, Montreal Canada[BODY FOUND]
MONTREAL – Laval police are asking for the public's help to find Natasha Cournoyer, 37, who went missing Thursday after she left work about 8 p.m. at Place Laval on St. Martin Blvd. E. at the corner of des Laurentides Blvd. Sun Youth is offering a $10,000 reward for information that will help locate Cournoyer.
Video surveillance videos show she left the building but never made it to her car, a charcoal Mazda3, which was found in the parking lot on Friday.
Cournoyer works in the communications department for Corrections Canada and lives in Piedmont.
She is 5-foot-5, weighs 115 pounds and has blond hair and blue eyes.
Friends and family members believe Cournoyer was abducted.
Anyone with information is asked to call 450-662-4636.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Youth+offers+reward+help+find+missing+Piedmont+wom an/2066431/story.html
Unusual behaviour: boyfriend
Trottier, contacted authorities the following day and police found Cournoyer's car still parked in the lot near her workplace.
Trottier has been holding vigil at a command post set up near the building, as police officers scour the area for clues.
"We are very anxious about what's going on," Trottier told reporters. "She has no enemies, she's not the kind of girl that she will go for a party for a few days.
"We wish she is safe some place. We wish that. She is a very courageous girl," said Trottier.
Natasha Cournoyer's physical description:
•Five-foot-five.
•115 pounds.
•Blond hair.
•Blue eyes.
Laval police Lt-Det. Serge Vary said the relationship between Cournoyer and Trottier was "a bit ambiguous."
"They were together for four years, but had periods where they were off and on again," said Vary.
Authorities used a helicopter and police dogs to scan a wooded area near the federal agency building on Sunday.
Cournoyer worked as an internal communications officer for the Correctional Service of Canada, said Brigitte Dube, regional director for Quebec.
"She had no direct contact with offenders," said Dube.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/10/05/quebec-natacha-cournoyer-missing.html
Cournoyer, 37, was last spotted Thursday at 8 p.m., when she was filmed on surveillance cameras leaving the office tower at Place Laval at St. Martin and Industriel Blvds in Laval. No one has seen or heard from her since.
"I tried to call her all evening long, also through the night, also Friday morning and I never got an answer," said her boyfriend Michel Trottier.
After checking Cournoyer's home in Piedmont and checking with her mother, Trottier went to her office, where he discovered her car. That's when he called police.
"We don't know what's going on she is a very normal girl - no enemies, no people who didn't like her," said Trottier, who organized a group of about 30 people to put up posters in the area where she went missing.
http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091004/mtl_cournoyer_093004/20091004/?hub=MontrealHome
dreamtime
10-05-2009, 08:24 PM
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Youth+offers+reward+help+find+missing+Piedmont+wom an/2066431/story.html
Family feel she was abducted.
lune3
10-05-2009, 09:22 PM
Hopefully the videotapes will lead to something:
"While the parking lot isn't not entirely covered by video surveillance, the entrances and exits are, said Lt.-Det. Serge Vary. Police are now examining videotape of the cars that left the parking lot that night."
Though there seems no reason to suspect the BF, I would like to know if it can be proven that he did drive 60 miles north of Montreal before going to her mom's place.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091005/national/corrections_canada_missing
What happened in parking lot to now-missing Corrections Canada employee?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jU-C7q7Y5xPvb5X9y5UnMpt6-XXg
Photo of the BF. The article is in french but I'll do my best to paraphrase what it says.
He wrote an open letter which was given to media outlets addressing the perpetrator (s) begging them to let Natasha go. He tells the perp (s) that he understands the guilt they must feel for doing what they did but it's not too late. Drop her off anonymously without the police or a citizen noticing. Think of an intelligent way to do it. Do it discreetly like you did when you took her on Thursday. Act fast.
http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/societe/archives/2009/10/20091005-130400.html
I made a mistake with the date. She was last seen Thursday October 1st. and not the 29th. I'll ask CW to correct it.
lune3
10-05-2009, 09:58 PM
Photo of the BF. The article is in french but I'll do my best to paraphrase what it says.
He wrote an open letter which was given to media outlets addressing the perpetrator (s) begging them to let Natasha go. He tells the perp (s) that he understands the guilt they must feel for doing what they did but it's not too late. Drop her off anonymously without the police or a citizen noticing. Think of an intelligent way to do it. Do it discreetly like you did when you took her on Thursday. Act fast.
http://fr.canoe.ca/infos/societe/archives/2009/10/20091005-130400.html
I made a mistake with the date. She was last seen Thursday October 1st. and not the 29th. I'll ask CW to correct it.
His letter is heartfelt...even says that "we beg you on our knees and our hands joined (in prayer I guess)".
I wonder if LE have identified from the videos the vehicles seen entering/leaving the parking lot that night.
LAVAL – The last time Michel Trottier spoke to his partner at 5 p.m. last Thursday, she was swamped, and said she had to stay late at work.
“We really spoke about nothing at all,” Trottier, 32, said Monday.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Partner+fears+Natasha+Cournoyer+kidnapped/2066431/story.html
His letter is heartfelt...even says that "we beg you on our knees and our hands joined (in prayer I guess)".
I wonder if LE have identified from the videos the vehicles seen entering/leaving the parking lot that night.
I hope they have and I hope if this turns out to be the same tragic outcome as Jessica Neilson that they find the killer. Jessica's killer is roaming free. No leads. Nothing. :sad:
kelloggirl
10-06-2009, 01:16 PM
I'm usually pretty suspicious of the significant others, but in this case I'm not that suspicious of Trottier. It's pretty rare that the guilty party has the sang froid to lead volunteers, distribute flyers, write letters, etc. Usually there is one or two half-hearted pleas, then the guilty husband or boyfriend drops out of sight and doesn't participate in search efforts. So for that reason alone, I'm not too focused on him. However, I would not be surprised if it turns out the boyfriend is involved, as it is all too common a scenario when women go missing.
For now though, I'm thinking that the short time between when she was seen and where her car was says random abduction, a crime of opportunity by someone who lurked around the building, or maybe had his or her eye on Natasha for some time.
I'm usually pretty suspicious of the significant others, but in this case I'm not that suspicious of Trottier. It's pretty rare that the guilty party has the sang froid to lead volunteers, distribute flyers, write letters, etc. Usually there is one or two half-hearted pleas, then the guilty husband or boyfriend drops out of sight and doesn't participate in search efforts. So for that reason alone, I'm not too focused on him. However, I would not be surprised if it turns out the boyfriend is involved, as it is all too common a scenario when women go missing.
For now though, I'm thinking that the short time between when she was seen and where her car was says random abduction, a crime of opportunity by someone who lurked around the building, or maybe had his or her eye on Natasha for some time.
I'm concerned about their on and off again relationship. He's the last one to have spoken to her at 5 pm and we don't know what that conversation was about. I'd like to know if they were together or in the midst of another break up. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
I hope this is the break they need!!!!
Missing woman's cellphone signal picked up
After picking up Cournoyer's cellphone signal, authorities dispatched investigators to an area around De La Concorde Boulevard and Highway 19.
Volunteers and search dogs are helping investigators comb the region.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/10/06/quebec-laval-corrections-missing-woman.html
Boyfriend volunteers to take a polygraph
article in french
He volunteered to take a polygragh and it will be administered tomorrow morning.
http://www2.canoe.com/infos/societe/archives/2009/10/20091006-122418.html
Another article ...sorry in french again. Will just post the highlights.
Boyfriend was questioned for 3 hours on the weekend.
He volunteered to take a poly.
He gave LE his computer and passwords.
Parking security being questioned. She arrived late so had to park further away from the building and she would sometimes leave late and had to walk quite a distance to get to her car.
Parking lot is badly lit and security cameras are inadaquate (doesn't cover entire lot).
BF claims Natasha called him one time because she was afraid to walk to her car and asked him to remain on the phone with her. She said there was a suspicious car.
http://www.canoe.com/infos/societe/archives/2009/10/20091006-072400.html
lune3
10-06-2009, 02:04 PM
Trottier spoke to Natasha at 5pm Thursday. She was very busy and they "spoke about nothing"
Natasha left the building at 8pm (as reported)
Trottier repeatedly called Natasha Thursday night and calls were not returned
On Friday Trottier became concerned.
He went to her home in Piedmont 60 miles north of Montreal.
Then he went to her mom's house in Anjou.
Natasha did not show up for planned visit with mom
It is also reported that he went to the Laval parking lot and found her car, after which he called police.
Here's my question: WHEN exactly did he go to the parking lot? and what time did he call police. Driving 60 miles north and back, then to mom's house had to have taken time.
He lives in Old Montreal, on the island of Montreal. Laval is across the river north and on the way to Piedmont. Anjou is back on the island. From Anjou he went back to Laval.
I can understand he did not check her work area on the way to Piedmont, nor on the way back. It may not have crossed his mind at the time. But why didn't he call her mom in Anjou rather than drive there to find out if she was there.
Just thinking aloud here. No reason to suspect him at all, but I'm trying to figure out the timeline and to determine that he actually did go all the way to Piedmont that Friday.
lune3
10-06-2009, 02:08 PM
Just read n/t's post. So a new detail. Natasha called him as she was walking to her car? a suspicious car in area? If he was on phone with her, what happened? Surely he stayed on the phone with her? Did it just cut off, go dead? Why did he not call police then? Why wait till Friday and do all that driving?
Article says her car was parked near a wooded area.
Trottier spoke to Natasha at 5pm Thursday. She was very busy and they "spoke about nothing"
Natasha left the building at 8pm (as reported)
Trottier repeatedly called Natasha Thursday night and calls were not returned
On Friday Trottier became concerned.
He went to her home in Piedmont 60 miles north of Montreal.
Then he went to her mom's house in Anjou.
Natasha did not show up for planned visit with mom
It is also reported that he went to the Laval parking lot and found her car, after which he called police.
Here's my question: WHEN exactly did he go to the parking lot? and what time did he call police. Driving 60 miles north and back, then to mom's house had to have taken time.
He lives in Old Montreal, on the island of Montreal. Laval is across the river north and on the way to Piedmont. Anjou is back on the island. From Anjou he went back to Laval.
I can understand he did not check her work area on the way to Piedmont, nor on the way back. It may not have crossed his mind at the time. But why didn't he call her mom in Anjou rather than drive there to find out if she was there.
Just thinking aloud here. No reason to suspect him at all, but I'm trying to figure out the timeline and to determine that he actually did go all the way to Piedmont that Friday.
Good questions Lune.
I'm guessing when he tried calling her on the cell and she didn't answer, that's when he got concerned and went to check to see if she was at her mom's. Not sure why he wouldn't call her first though. Maybe mom wasn't home?? Also, if mom was expecting Natasha, wouldn't she have been the one raising the alarm and trying to get a hold of her daughter.
Just read n/t's post. So a new detail. Natasha called him as she was walking to her car? a suspicious car in area? If he was on phone with her, what happened? Surely he stayed on the phone with her? Did it just cut off, go dead? Why did he not call police then? Why wait till Friday and do all that driving?
Article says her car was parked near a wooded area.
No no...this was at some other time. Not that same night. Sorry for the confusion.
The parking lot is surrounded by a wooded area. I guess the building is in an underdeveloped area of Laval.
lune3
10-06-2009, 02:16 PM
Good questions Lune.
I'm guessing when he tried calling her on the cell and she didn't answer, that's when he got concerned and went to check to see if she was at her mom's. Not sure why he wouldn't call her first though. Maybe mom wasn't home?? Also, if mom was expecting Natasha, wouldn't she have been the one raising the alarm and trying to get of her daughter.
But he went all the way to Piedmont first. That's all the way near St Sauveur.
Since there was some fear expressed on Thursday night, and he called so many times without response, why not go straight to Laval on that night? And what happened with that phone call she made to him as she was walking to her car? She hung up? She asked him to stay on phone. Maybe battery went dead? Why wait till Friday to take action, particularly after her expression of fear and the fact he tried to call her numerous times.
lune3
10-06-2009, 02:17 PM
No no...this was at some other time. Not that same night. Sorry for the confusion.
The parking lot is surrounded by a wooded area. I guess the building is in an underdeveloped area of Laval.
Oh ok, sorry, I just skimmed the article. Now it makes sense if it was another night.
omsk99
10-06-2009, 02:18 PM
I hope this is the break they need!!!!
Missing woman's cellphone signal picked up
After picking up Cournoyer's cellphone signal, authorities dispatched investigators to an area around De La Concorde Boulevard and Highway 19.
Volunteers and search dogs are helping investigators comb the region.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/10/06/quebec-laval-corrections-missing-woman.html
In this photo, she looks like the late Carolyn Bessette-Kennedy...
We've seen more than once how quickly things can happen in a parking lot - Kelsey Smith, Susana De Jesus... But it's such a small window of opportunity, makes me think someone could have been stalking her.
kelloggirl
10-06-2009, 02:21 PM
I hope this is the break they need!!!!
Missing woman's cellphone signal picked up
After picking up Cournoyer's cellphone signal, authorities dispatched investigators to an area around De La Concorde Boulevard and Highway 19.
Volunteers and search dogs are helping investigators comb the region.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/10/06/quebec-laval-corrections-missing-woman.html
Good news, thanks for bringing this over. Any sense of where that area is in relation to her workplace?
Also, I don't disagree with you about the boyfriend - on again, off again relationships can mean volatility. We'll see what happens after the polygraph, if we even hear about the results as I've learned Canadian LE is very tight-lipped.
omsk99
10-06-2009, 02:24 PM
Per the posted article (http://www2.canoe.com/infos/societe/archives/2009/10/20091006-122418.html#), BF volunteered to take the poly - I doubt he has anything to do with her disappearance, it's a pretty bold move otherwise, IMO.
lune3
10-06-2009, 02:25 PM
I hope this is the break they need!!!!
Missing woman's cellphone signal picked up
After picking up Cournoyer's cellphone signal, authorities dispatched investigators to an area around De La Concorde Boulevard and Highway 19.
Volunteers and search dogs are helping investigators comb the region.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/10/06/quebec-laval-corrections-missing-woman.html
That's not far away from her place of work in Laval. But if she was taken onto Highway 19, that goes either further north or back onto Montreal Island. I wonder if the phone was still in the perp's car, or dumped in that area.
When LE pick up a signal, would that be a present signal or could it be a last signal that may have been that Thursday night?
Good news, thanks for bringing this over. Any sense of where that area is in relation to her workplace?
Also, I don't disagree with you about the boyfriend - on again, off again relationships can mean volatility. We'll see what happens after the polygraph, if we even hear about the results as I've learned Canadian LE is very tight-lipped.
Not far at all. Less than 10 minutes away.
That's not far away from her place of work in Laval. But if she was taken onto Highway 19, that goes either further north or back onto Montreal Island. I wonder if the phone was still in the perp's car, or dumped in that area.
If they picked up the signal, I'm guessing it was probably dumped there unless the perp is driving with it all over Laval:confused:
lune3
10-06-2009, 02:35 PM
Not far at all. Less than 10 minutes away.
There's a shopping mall in that area, possibly of the outdoor strip mall kind. Service lanes behind stores, dumpsters etc. I don't like the sounds of this.
lune3
10-06-2009, 02:37 PM
If they picked up the signal, I'm guessing it was probably dumped there unless the perp is driving with it all over Laval:confused:
When LE pick up such a signal, would that be one that's present or could it be a last signal from days ago?
There's a shopping mall in that area, possibly of the outdoor strip mall kind. Service lanes behind stores, dumpsters etc. I don't like the sounds of this.
I think I have an idea of where it is but I haven't been there in over 4 years. I usually get lost in Laval and try to avoid going. I'm right across the river on the other side. :wink:
When LE pick up such a signal, would that be one that's present or could it be a last signal from days ago?
I'm not sure. The way it was worded in the article, it sounded like they just picked up the signal. Hopefully we'll get clarification soon.
lune3
10-06-2009, 02:44 PM
Here's a map. Zoom in and see the Place Maxi Concorde which is in the area where the signal was located. I think that's a shopping mall. The rest of the area looks residential.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=laval+quebec&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Laval,+QC,+Canada&gl=us&ei=fXbLSpaWMYSoswOL2YSgAQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1
lune3
10-06-2009, 02:51 PM
I think I have an idea of where it is but I haven't been there in over 4 years. I usually get lost in Laval and try to avoid going. I'm right across the river on the other side. :wink:
I rarely went into Laval either, when I lived in Montreal. I do know that bridge. Ile de la Visitation isn't too far from the signal either. At night, nobody would be in that area.
Oh noooooo....her body was found. It was found in a wooded area.
This is in french. Will try to locate the English version. :crying:
http://www.ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/faitsdivers/11856-cadavre-natasha
Her body was found in Pointe-aux-Trembles. That's across the river and not in Laval.
Woman's body found in Pointe aux Trembles
The Montreal police are investigating the death of a woman whose body was discovered in Pointe aux Trembles early Tuesday afternoon.
The body was found near the corner of Notre Dame St. E. and 36th Ave. around noon.
Montreal police Constable Anie Lemieux said the death is being investigated as suspicious and that members of the major crimes division have been called in to investigate. Lemieux said the body has yet to be identified and that it was too early to draw conclusions as to whether the discovery can be linked to the recent disappearance of 37-year-old Natasha Cournoyer.
Cournoyer was last seen on Thursday leaving her office in Laval.
More to come.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Woman+body+found+Montreal/2072040/story.html
:rose:
lune3
10-06-2009, 03:13 PM
Oh noooooo....her body was found. It was found in a wooded area.
This is in french. Will try to locate the English version. :crying:
http://www.ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/faitsdivers/11856-cadavre-natasha
Oh no, how awful. They think she may possibly have been killed "sur place" at the site, in a wooded area by the water edge.
n/t where is Rue Notre Dame and 36th? The only Rue Notre Dame I remember is in Old Montreal.
Suspicious death in Pointe-aux-Trembles
Tue, 2009-10-06 13:46.
Shuyee Lee
Montreal police investigating a suspicious death in Pointe-aux-Trembles on the eastern tip of the island.
The body of a woman was found late this morning near 36th Avenue and Notre Dame, not far from a plant and tree nursery. The body was found underneath a Hydro tower and has marks of violence.
The body has not been identified. Major crimes investigators are on site.
Montreal police say it's too early to link the death with Natasha Cournoyer, the Corrections Canada employee who went missing in Laval last week.
http://www.cjad.com/news/565/1001742
lune3
10-06-2009, 03:19 PM
Pointe aux Trembles? That's pretty far from Laval, the east end of the island. This is horrible news.
Oh no, how awful. They think she may possibly have been killed "sur place" at the site, in a wooded area by the water edge.
n/t where is Rue Notre Dame and 36th? The only Rue Notre Dame I remember is in Old Montreal.
It's in Pointe-Aux Trembles. Do you know where Rivieres des Prairies is? It's east of RDP. Across the river.
Montreal North -----> RDP ------> Pointe-Aux Trembles
Pointe aux Trembles? That's pretty far from Laval, the east end of the island. This is horrible news.
It is. I don't understand why the perp would pick that spot. He must've known the area. Horrible and very frightening news. I hope they find who did this. :sad:
FWIW...
Pointe-Aux-Trembles is not far from Anjou (where Natasha mom lives). 15 minute drive.
lune3
10-06-2009, 03:30 PM
You can see exactly where it is...the electric wires are visible and it appears that there is a sort of nursery there. The woman's initial description must correspond to Natasha if they are already saying it might be her. I agree, what a strange area.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=laval+quebec&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Laval,+QC,+Canada&gl=us&ei=fXbLSpaWMYSoswOL2YSgAQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1
Don't know why the map goes back to Laval....type in Pointe aux Trembles and you'll see it.
Why that nursery? Why not go to a more remote area, a bit further and it would have been off the island?
Woman's body found in east-end Montreal
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/10/06/montreal-body-found.html
You can see exactly where it is...the electric wires are visible and it appears that there is a sort of nursery there. The woman's initial description must correspond to Natasha if they are already saying it might be her. I agree, what a strange area.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=laval+quebec&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Laval,+QC,+Canada&gl=us&ei=fXbLSpaWMYSoswOL2YSgAQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1
Don't know why the map goes back to Laval....type in Pointe aux Trembles and you'll see it.
Why that nursery? Why not go to a more remote area, a bit further and it would have been off the island?
It's interesting because the french media is saying it's her whereas the english is more cautious
lune3
10-06-2009, 03:50 PM
The location just seems odd to me. It's obvious a body would quickly be found there IMO. People work at a nursery, ...especially if she was found right under one of those two pylons. There doesn't seem to have been much care in concealing a body. Plus kind of dangerous for the perp with his car being seen by witnesses...looks residential on both sides. Hopefully somebody did see a strange vehicle.
Woman's body found in P.A.T.
Updated: Tue Oct. 06 2009 1:11:05 PM
ctvmontreal.ca
Montreal police say a woman's body has been found in Pointe-aux-Trembles, and that the death appears to be suspicious.
A police official says it's too early to connect the body to any of the recent cases of missing women in the Montreal region.
Someone called 911 around noon Tuesday to report seeing a body in some bushes near the water at Notre Dame St. and 36th Ave.
Detectives with the Montreal police major-crimes unit are on the scene and the area has been cordoned off.
Police said they would have more information later in the afternoon.
http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091006/mtl_body_found091006/20091006/?hub=MontrealHome
lune3
10-06-2009, 04:24 PM
Woman's body found in P.A.T.
Updated: Tue Oct. 06 2009 1:11:05 PM
ctvmontreal.ca
Montreal police say a woman's body has been found in Pointe-aux-Trembles, and that the death appears to be suspicious.
A police official says it's too early to connect the body to any of the recent cases of missing women in the Montreal region.
Someone called 911 around noon Tuesday to report seeing a body in some bushes near the water at Notre Dame St. and 36th Ave.
Detectives with the Montreal police major-crimes unit are on the scene and the area has been cordoned off.
Police said they would have more information later in the afternoon.
http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091006/mtl_body_found091006/20091006/?hub=MontrealHome
BBM.....more missing women cases?
Maybe it's not Natasha at all. The article you linked says the body was found "near the water" where others (maybe the French press?) said it was found under a pylon (which is not at water's edge). Could the body have washed ashore?
BBM.....more missing women cases?
Maybe it's not Natasha at all. The article you linked says the body was found "near the water" where others (maybe the French press?) said it was found under a pylon (which is not at water's edge). Could the body have washed ashore?
I don't know of any other missing women cases. :shrug:
Cedrika Provencher is still missing but she's a child.
Montreal Gazette has updated
The Montreal police are investigating the death of a woman whose body was discovered in Pointe aux Trembles early Tuesday afternoon.
The body was discovered by passersby on a dirt road near Notre Dame St. E. and 36th Ave. that leads to a boat launch in Pointe aux Trembles. It was found in bushes underneath a hydro-line tower around noon.
Lemieux said a doctor with Urgences Sante declared the person dead at the scene.
She said the major crimes investigators have secured a wide area to search for possible evidence.
Montreal police Constable Anie Lemieux said the death is being investigated as suspicious and that members of the major crimes division have been called in to investigate. Laval police investigators are also at the scene.
Lemieux said the body has yet to be identified and that it was too early to draw conclusions as to whether the discovery can be linked to the recent disappearance of 37-year-old Natasha Cournoyer.
Cournoyer was last seen on Thursday leaving her office in Laval.
More to come.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Woman+body+found+Pointe+Trembles/2072040/story.html
Leanne Weich
10-06-2009, 04:50 PM
Seeing as LE are investigating it as a suspicious death, I'd say she was likely not shot or stabbed and probably strangled or beaten to death. That being said, surely a visual identification is possible.
Although I haven't posted on this thread until now, I've been following alone and praying that Natasha would be found alive. Very sad that another woman just going about her nomal daily business wasn't safe. The world is becoming a sick place to live in when one can't leave work and assume you'll make it home safely. JMHO.
lune3
10-06-2009, 05:08 PM
I have a very bad feeling that this may be Natasha. Initial reports hinted at the body's discovery being connected to her disappearance, I think they've already established a visual resemblance but can't say more until a proper identification has been done.
She's been missing 5 days, it doesn't sound very likely that there is another explanation other than that she met with foul play. She did not drive her own car out of that parking lot, something bad happened there. I hope they catch the person who did this.
This is getting all so confusing. If the body is Natasha's, why would her cellphone ping in Laval? Unless the perp did it to throw off LE.
Search for missing Corrections Canada employee shifts neighbourhoods
LAVAL, Que. — The search for a Correctional Service of Canada employee is shifting from a sprawling parking lot to a residential neighbourhood where her cell phone signal was last caught.
Natasha Cournoyer vanished sometime last Thursday evening as she left her workplace in Laval, north of Montreal.
Laval police and volunteers from the Correctional Service of Canada fanned out over a three-kilometre area today looking in backyards and behind businesses for the missing woman.
A $10,000 reward is being offered for information leading to the return of the 37-year-old Cournoyer.
Police spokeswoman Nathalie Lorrain says detectives are working several leads but are still not able to determine the circumstances surrounding her disappearance.
In a separate development, Montreal police say they're investigating the discovery of a woman's body in the east end and whether it might be Cournoyer's.
http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091006/mtl_cournoyer_serach_091006/20091006/?hub=MontrealHome
lune3
10-06-2009, 05:23 PM
It's possible the perp threw her cell phone out the window while taking her away. I'm wondering also if he put her in the trunk since it would be hard to drive with her in the car. Unless he threatened her with a gun (which isn't easy to get in Canada) or restrained her somehow before he got her in his car.
I guess LE is searching the area since they do not yet know if the discovery in Pointe aux Trembles is related. I guess they are at least looking for the phone.
omsk99
10-06-2009, 06:34 PM
bolding is mine
Search broadens for Corrections Canada employee missing in Montreal area
MONTREAL — The search for a Correctional Service of Canada employee shifted Tuesday from a sprawling parking lot where she vanished to two other locations - a residential neighbourhood and a spot near the St. Lawrence River where a body was found.
Natasha Cournoyer, 37, disappeared last Thursday evening as she left her workplace in Laval, just north of Montreal.
Using a cellphone signal captured by a tower as their starting point, Laval police and volunteers from the Correctional Service of Canada fanned out over a three-kilometre area looking in backyards, under balconies and behind businesses for the missing woman.
"We found out that her cellphone gave a signal on Friday morning because her family members were trying to reach her and the tower that caught that signal reaches that area," said Laval police Const. Nathalie Lorrain.
More:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5haMwkrysPi27BbrxdDRYD6tEoj9w
Does this mean her cell phone was on all this time?
bolding is mine
Search broadens for Corrections Canada employee missing in Montreal area
MONTREAL — The search for a Correctional Service of Canada employee shifted Tuesday from a sprawling parking lot where she vanished to two other locations - a residential neighbourhood and a spot near the St. Lawrence River where a body was found.
Natasha Cournoyer, 37, disappeared last Thursday evening as she left her workplace in Laval, just north of Montreal.
Using a cellphone signal captured by a tower as their starting point, Laval police and volunteers from the Correctional Service of Canada fanned out over a three-kilometre area looking in backyards, under balconies and behind businesses for the missing woman.
"We found out that her cellphone gave a signal on Friday morning because her family members were trying to reach her and the tower that caught that signal reaches that area," said Laval police Const. Nathalie Lorrain.
More:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5haMwkrysPi27BbrxdDRYD6tEoj9w
Does this mean her cell phone was on all this time?
That's what it sounds like to me, omsk. 5 days to reach that area? :unsure:
I'm waiting for the 6 o'clock news to see if anything new is said.
lune3
10-06-2009, 07:01 PM
Does that mean that all those phone calls Trottier made to her cell on Thursday night did NOT reach that tower that caught signals? They only mention the Friday calls.
Ugh! I think I missed the local news at the top of the hour. I tuned in 10 minutes late. Anyhooo...
Montreal Gazette article is saying a source familiar with the investigation claims the body was discoverd by city workers on break. Earlier reports said it was a passerby. Not sure which is the correct version. Photo of the crime scene and map at the link.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Woman+body+found+Montreal/2072040/story.html
omsk99
10-06-2009, 07:44 PM
Ugh! I think I missed the local news at the top of the hour. I tuned in 10 minutes late. Anyhooo...
Montreal Gazette article is saying a source familiar with the investigation claims the body was discoverd by city workers on break. Earlier reports said it was a passerby. Not sure which is the correct version. Photo of the crime scene and map at the link.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Woman+body+found+Montreal/2072040/story.html
Hi n/t,
I read both as well - I guess you could say a worker is a passerby?.. I also noticed, like you mentioned earleir, that reports in French actually say it was Natasha's body (without formal confirmation). I think they know it's her, but have to wait for formal ID.
Updated. Autopsy scheduled for tomorrow and identity will be confirmed at that time. Investigators from Laval were at the scene.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Woman+body+found+Montreal/2072040/story.html
Hi n/t,
I read both as well - I guess you could say a worker is a passerby?.. I also noticed, like you mentioned earleir, that reports in French actually say it was Natasha's body (without formal confirmation). I think they know it's her, but have to wait for formal ID.
I think it's her but yes they have to wait for formal ID. :sad:
lune3
10-06-2009, 08:27 PM
I guess we won't know for sure till there's a positive identification announced. With Laval LE there it looks as though it's Natasha though. It's horrible. Montreal is a relatively safe city, at least it was when I lived there.
So this wasn't a nursery? Sounds as though this place is a real dump, with drug dealing and stuff going on.
My heart goes out to her poor mother, and Trottier...he tried so hard to find her.
I guess we won't know for sure till there's a positive identification announced. With Laval LE there it looks as though it's Natasha though. It's horrible. Montreal is a relatively safe city, at least it was when I lived there.
So this wasn't a nursery? Sounds as though this place is a real dump, with drug dealing and stuff going on.
My heart goes out to her poor mother, and Trottier...he tried so hard to find her.
It still is a relatively safe city. We do have our problems mostly gang related and there are unsafe neighbourhoods. Pointe-Aux-Trembles is not one of those neighbourhoods. Stranger abductions are rare.
If it is Natasha, I think the perp is someone who knew her and knew where to dump her body.
With that said, I am beginning to worry about a possible killer (s) on the loose. Jessica Neilson's murder remains unsolved. Do we have a killer on our streets?
omsk99
10-06-2009, 09:13 PM
It still is a relatively safe city. We do have our problems mostly gang related and there are unsafe neighbourhoods. Pointe-Aux-Trembles is not one of those neighbourhoods. Stranger abductions are rare.
If it is Natasha, I think the perp is someone who knew her and knew where to dump her body.
With that said, I am beginning to worry about a possible killer (s) on the loose. Jessica Neilson's murder remains unsolved. Do we have a killer on our streets?
I agree. There was so little time between when she left her building and was [allegedly] abducted that someone had to have been waiting for her, or someone REALLY made a quick decision in a split second they saw her to abduct her, if this wasn't planned or if it was a stranger abduction. Unless, she willingly got into someone's car because she knew the person?..
omsk99
10-06-2009, 09:23 PM
Boyfriend was never a suspect:
~snipped
"Meanwhile, Lorrain added, Laval police have agreed to repeated offers from Michel Trottier, Cournoyer’s boyfriend, that he take a polygraph test in connection with her disappearance.
Investigators will question Trottier Wednesday morning, using a lie detector.
“He was never a suspect” in the disappearance, Lorrain said.
“He’s still not a suspect for us.” she added."
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Cournoyer+cellphone+detected+after+disappeared/2071135/story.html
Also, per this article in French, about the body found today: Although ID is not yet confirtmed, the death was recent:
http://lcn.canoe.ca/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/archives/2009/10/20091006-192048.html
lune3
10-06-2009, 10:09 PM
Boyfriend was never a suspect:
~snipped
"Meanwhile, Lorrain added, Laval police have agreed to repeated offers from Michel Trottier, Cournoyer’s boyfriend, that he take a polygraph test in connection with her disappearance.
Investigators will question Trottier Wednesday morning, using a lie detector.
“He was never a suspect” in the disappearance, Lorrain said.
“He’s still not a suspect for us.” she added."
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Cournoyer+cellphone+detected+after+disappeared/2071135/story.html
Also, per this article in French, about the body found today: Although ID is not yet confirtmed, the death was recent:
http://lcn.canoe.ca/lcn/infos/faitsdivers/archives/2009/10/20091006-192048.html
In the French article they are saying that LE is refusing to give details on the body's condition, notably whether there were signs of violence, yet earlier reports said there were.
The death being recent does not sound good.
The location just seems odd to me. It's obvious a body would quickly be found there IMO. People work at a nursery, ...especially if she was found right under one of those two pylons. There doesn't seem to have been much care in concealing a body. Plus kind of dangerous for the perp with his car being seen by witnesses...looks residential on both sides. Hopefully somebody did see a strange vehicle.
probably felt guilt after killing her and wanted her found. I have read enough profiles for that to be one of the main reasons for leaving the body in a place that ensures finding. (it can also mean something else with a serial killer, like they want to show their "handiwork")
Thinking a stalker who finally caught her when i remember the suspicious car she was worried about it.
lune3
10-06-2009, 10:35 PM
probably felt guilt after killing her and wanted her found. I have read enough profiles for that to be one of the main reasons for leaving the body in a place that ensures finding. (it can also mean something else with a serial killer, like they want to show their "handiwork")
Thinking a stalker who finally caught her when i remember the suspicious car she was worried about it.
I'm wondering now about the time she called her friend Trottier, when she was uneasy...when was that btw? I think it's very possible she was being watched. She was also very attractive.
Santa'sMom
10-07-2009, 12:30 AM
I'm confused (as usual). It says on the header that Natasha's body has been found but I didn't notice any identification of the body that was found in any of the linked articles. Am I missing it? or did someone just assume that it was her and jump the gun? Thanks for clarification!
I'm confused (as usual). It says on the header that Natasha's body has been found but I didn't notice any identification of the body that was found in any of the linked articles. Am I missing it? or did someone just assume that it was her and jump the gun? Thanks for clarification!
My fault. We will know this morning.
I based my assumption on this french article which states police believe they found Natasha's body. It goes on to say that all indications are that the body is that of Natasha Cournoyer, 37 who disappeared in Laval last week.
http://www.ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/faitsdivers/11856-cadavre-natasha
Missing woman slain, police speculate
Major crimes investigators believe a woman's body found yesterday next to a dirt road in Pointe aux Trembles is that of Natasha Cournoyer, a Laval resident who disappeared Thursday, three police sources familiar with the investigation said yesterday.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Missing+woman+slain+police+speculate/2073743/story.html
Very sad. All indications are that it's Natasha. This article goes on to describe what happened yesterday afternoon in front of the Cournoyer home. The article is in french but I used Babel Fish for translation as I don't have time to do it myself.
====
17h. A black car pulls over in front of the house of Cournoyer. Two civil police déboulent, funereal clothing, closed face. The door of Cournoyer s' open quickly, the police officers s' engulf. The sky is covered with gray clouds. L' storm threatens, the branches of the trees ploient under the wind. Silence wraps the house, the blinds are lowered. On the lawn throne a large electoral sign of Gerald Tremblay, flanked of three candidates. Approximately, l' inscription: Montreal goes from l' front! A neighbor, Michel Lauzon, smoke a cigar on the step of his door. He knows Cournoyer. “Of the quite fine, quite quiet world.” The father died l' last winter. The heart. He was sailor. Monday, Mrs. Cournoyer came to see it. She told him her distress. “She said to me: “C' is terrible.” She braillait. She only lives since the death of her husband.” He believes that Natasha was single child. “C' is true that c' is terrible”, says it by shaking the head. Fatiha Hamraoui has known Cournoyer for three years. Its house touches practically theirs. “The mother of Natasha came to see me to think that his/her daughter had disappeared, she tells. She cried. One often did not see oneself. She wanted to just to say it me. C' was a rather solitary woman.” *** 17h30. The police officers leave the house, the face always also closed. They go d' a fast step. - The woman found in a field with Point-with-Tremble is Natasha? Silence. - Qu' do you have says to the family? Silence. The police officers slip by in their black car, without saying a mot. But the facts are disconcerting. The dead woman wore same clothing as Natasha. The door of Cournoyer s' half-open again. “Leave, one will not say anything to us”, begs l' close friend. Its reddened eyes and its upset face say some longer than the silence of the police force
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/opinions/chroniqueurs/michele-ouimet/200910/07/01-909109-lattente.php
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt
Tuesday, Michel Trottier, her boyfriend confirmed on his facebook that the body found is that of Natasha. The message was deleted this morning.
The message read: (translating from the article)
«Je vous annonce ce que jamais je n'aurais voulu. Natasha Cournoyer, mon ange, la femme de ma vie, a été retrouvée sans vie.»
I am announcing something I never wanted to. Natasha Cournoyer, my angel, the girl of my life was found dead.
http://matin.branchez-vous.com/nouvelles/2009/10/natasha_cournoyer_la_confirmat.html
Video
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Video+Body+found+Pointe+Trembles/2073743/story.html?tab=VID
d5cents
10-07-2009, 10:48 AM
First time poster here. I saw a video earlier this morning on a french language news station (LCN I believe) in which an ex MUC Police investigator was interviewed regarding the ongoing case. With regards to the location where the victim was found, the investigator said he believed the perp knew the area (heavily travelled by fishermen and city workers on breaks lol) and wanted the body to be found. He also said that the distance from the site of the kidnapping (25 km) to Pointe Aux Trembles would have involved a drive through a heavily populated area of Montreal. Another possible indicator that the perp knew the area well and perhaps also knew the victim well.
Is it me or does the on again off again boyfriend's actions seem a bit bizarre. For example: accepting any and all media requests for interviews, telling police he was sure certain she was kidnapped, offering to submit to a polygraph test and supposedly posting message (s) on his facebook regarding Ms Cournoyer.... Thank God I have not been in his position but I think if I was, the last thing I would be worrying about was proving my own innocence if I had nothing to hide. Hope I am wrong but just my 2 cents.
First time poster here. I saw a video earlier this morning on a french language news station (LCN I believe) in which an ex MUC Police investigator was interviewed regarding the ongoing case. With regards to the location where the victim was found, the investigator said he believed the perp knew the area (heavily travelled by fishermen and city workers on breaks lol) and wanted the body to be found. He also said that the distance from the site of the kidnapping (25 km) to Pointe Aux Trembles would have involved a drive through a heavily populated area of Montreal. Another possible indicator that the perp knew the area well and perhaps also knew the victim well.
Is it me or does the on again off again boyfriend's actions seem a bit bizarre. For example: accepting any and all media requests for interviews, telling police he was sure certain she was kidnapped, offering to submit to a polygraph test and supposedly posting message (s) on his facebook regarding Ms Cournoyer.... Thank God I have not been in his position but I think if I was, the last thing I would be worrying about was proving my own innocence if I had nothing to hide. Hope I am wrong but just my 2 cents.
The posting on facebook is bizarre, imo. I think the last place I'd want to be if someone I love was found dead would be posting on a social website. Why he felt the need to announce it before it was confirmed is puzzling, imo
As for the polygraph, I've seen many cases where a loved one volunteers to take one just so the suspicion is off of them and LE can focus on finding the missing person and the real perp. Cedrika Provencher's dad volunteered to take one immediately and so did Marc Klaas. It's not unusual.
I do find the BF's behaviour bizarre. I didn't watch french news last night but my coworkers did. Apparently it was said that the 2 were separated and not together. Natasha apparently was at a party without him on Tuesday.
kelloggirl
10-07-2009, 11:52 AM
...respectfully snipped...
Is it me or does the on again off again boyfriend's actions seem a bit bizarre. For example: accepting any and all media requests for interviews, telling police he was sure certain she was kidnapped, offering to submit to a polygraph test and supposedly posting message (s) on his facebook regarding Ms Cournoyer.... Thank God I have not been in his position but I think if I was, the last thing I would be worrying about was proving my own innocence if I had nothing to hide. Hope I am wrong but just my 2 cents.
Although I wasn't that suspicious of the boyfriend at first, the Facebook posting announcing her death before official confirmation definitely raised my eyebrows. While he seems to be doing the right things, such as offering to take a polygraph, everything he does seems a bit too visible and well-publicized, and maybe just a bit over the top.
Still searching for cellphone
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Missing+woman+slain+police+speculate/2073743/story.html
lune3
10-07-2009, 12:39 PM
Morning everyone. First thing I did was look to see if there was confirmation, hoping against hope that there was other news.
It's so very sad.
Reading the French article brought tears to my eyes..I feel so bad for Natasha's mom....her husband died last year and Natasha was her only child.
I don't know what to think about the body being placed so that it would be found so quickly. VC2's post upthread is very interesting...guilt or serial killer? I'm not sure what to think about whether Natasha knew the killer or not. It seems evident though that the killer was familiar with that location....a city worker?, a resident of P. A. T.? a drug dealer? But why stalk a woman all the way in Laval? How/where did he see/know her?
At this point I don't think I suspect Trottier. He'd have to be a sociopath to be able to calmly pass a LDT. Yet ...I wonder if it's true that Natasha called him that one night when she was scared in that parking lot. And they had broken up? Did he have an alibi Thursday night?
My god, it was mentioned early on that LE thought the body found was killed "sur place", at the site. I don't want to think of the terror Natasha must have endured on that 25 mile ride.
I don't know what the world's coming to anymore with these murders of innocent people.
grant
10-07-2009, 12:56 PM
First time poster here too.
I'm a friend of Michel. Of course, I'll be honest, I'm not very objective but the reason I'm posting this is to clarify why Facebook was used. I understand perfectly why it may seem strange to announced it on facebook, I would have the same reaction as you if it would'nt be a person I know. It's important to explain that facebook was used since the beginning to try to reach as much people as possible to let people know what's happening and try to have everyone see her picture (that was even before he was on every media). One of the main purpose of it was to create events too. Per example, an event was created for yesterday evening (before the new of the body found) to set up a meeting to continue the searching.
Michel continued to used it to post some very emotional sentences and I'm pretty sure it was a way for him to let people know what he was feeling inside.
Again, I'm not objective, but the way he reacted the last few days is very comprehensive. If it would happen to my girlfriend, I would do exactly the same thing to protect her mother and family from all the attention so they can be on their own.
lune3
10-07-2009, 01:07 PM
First time poster here too.
I'm a friend of Michel. Of course, I'll be honest, I'm not very objective but the reason I'm posting this is to clarify why Facebook was used. I understand perfectly why it may seem strange to announced it on facebook, I would have the same reaction as you if it would'nt be a person I know. It's important to explain that facebook was used since the beginning to try to reach as much people as possible to let people know what's happening and try to have everyone see her picture (that was even before he was on every media). One of the main purpose of it was to create events too. Per example, an event was created for yesterday evening (before the new of the body found) to set up a meeting to continue the searching.
Michel continued to used it to post some very emotional sentences and I'm pretty sure it was a way for him to let people know what he was feeling inside.
Again, I'm not objective, but the way he reacted the last few days is very comprehensive. If it would happen to my girlfriend, I would do exactly the same thing to protect her mother and family from all the attention so they can be on their own.
Thank you for joining in with your information. Personally I don't see a red flag with posting on FB. I can see that FB would be used as another means to publicize developments and searching plans among friends. It is also evident that Michel must be emotionally drained and distraught and would find some outlet in communicating with friends.
My deepest condolences to your friend.
First time poster here too.
I'm a friend of Michel. Of course, I'll be honest, I'm not very objective but the reason I'm posting this is to clarify why Facebook was used. I understand perfectly why it may seem strange to announced it on facebook, I would have the same reaction as you if it would'nt be a person I know. It's important to explain that facebook was used since the beginning to try to reach as much people as possible to let people know what's happening and try to have everyone see her picture (that was even before he was on every media). One of the main purpose of it was to create events too. Per example, an event was created for yesterday evening (before the new of the body found) to set up a meeting to continue the searching.
Michel continued to used it to post some very emotional sentences and I'm pretty sure it was a way for him to let people know what he was feeling inside.
Again, I'm not objective, but the way he reacted the last few days is very comprehensive. If it would happen to my girlfriend, I would do exactly the same thing to protect her mother and family from all the attention so they can be on their own.
Hi Grant,
Welcome and thanks for posting.
I tried to locate his facebook account but the only one I could find was set to private. Is there another one? A public one so everyone can see what you claim above.
Thank you. My heart goes out to Natasha's family and friends. Very sad.
ETA: If you can provide a link, it would be great.
Body is likely Natasha Cournoyer's: cops
The body apparently had clothing and hair that matched a description of Cournoyer.
http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091007/mtl_body_found091007/20091007/?hub=MontrealHome
lune3
10-07-2009, 01:41 PM
Trottier wrote more:
“I try to understand how one could take you, what we hold so valuable... life. To take the life of such a pretty woman with so much violence, with cowardice, what a wretched way to live. My heart this evening isn't any more, it is empty of this presence which before brought me comfort and confidence. This evening I am at a loss for words, this evil this evening inflicts me with an immense pain. This pain is not compared with the fear which you surely had this Thursday. Quite egoistically, I feel I am "dividing" with you my light wound, you who knew blackness, you who rests from now on at the side of your beloved dad who had greeted us hardly six months ago. I try to close my eyes and to believe that all that is in fact only a dream. That your departure actually is only an illusion. In vain”.
Also, the article states that the LDT is postponed due to his state of mind.
http://www2.canoe.com/infos/societe/archives/2009/10/20091007-092555.html
Also it states that the body identification will be made public later today.
Sombre photo
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/les-patrouilleurs/200910/06/01-908948-corps-retrouve-la-victime-serait-natasha-cournoyer.php
lune3
10-07-2009, 02:11 PM
Sombre photo
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/les-patrouilleurs/200910/06/01-908948-corps-retrouve-la-victime-serait-natasha-cournoyer.php
The article states that Trottier gave LE a description of what Natasha was wearing when she was taken. How would he know that? I guess she stayed at the Old Montreal apartment Wednesday night? But another article said they had broken up?
Family was questioned whether Natasha wore glasses. She did. I guess glasses were found?
Un mystérieux appel (a mysterious phone call)
Le téléphone cellulaire de Natasha Cournoyer, qui habitait à Piedmont, aurait été utilisé après sa disparition et le signal de l'appareil aurait été détecté dans le quartier Duvernay.
It's saying that her cell phone was actually used after her disappearance. Does this mean an outgoing call? They seem to be implying one call..."The" signal.
Duvernay is further north of Laval, past the 19. Yesterday it was said a signal was received near the 19 and Blvd de Concorde. This appears to be a different one, unless they have determined a more exact location somehow.
omsk99
10-07-2009, 02:54 PM
The article states that Trottier gave LE a description of what Natasha was wearing when she was taken. How would he know that? I guess she stayed at the Old Montreal apartment Wednesday night? But another article said they had broken up?
Family was questioned whether Natasha wore glasses. She did. I guess glasses were found?
Un mystérieux appel (a mysterious phone call)
Le téléphone cellulaire de Natasha Cournoyer, qui habitait à Piedmont, aurait été utilisé après sa disparition et le signal de l'appareil aurait été détecté dans le quartier Duvernay.
It's saying that her cell phone was actually used after her disappearance. Does this mean an outgoing call? They seem to be implying one call..."The" signal.
Duvernay is further north of Laval, past the 19. Yesterday it was said a signal was received near the 19 and Blvd de Concorde. This appears to be a different one, unless they have determined a more exact location somehow.
The got a signal from her cellphone on Friday, when her family was trying to reach her. I believe that is what they are referring to - but it wasn't actually used to answer or make a call.
lune3
10-07-2009, 03:09 PM
In one of the French articles it's stated that Natasha's dad was a sailor (http://www.cyberpresse.ca/opinions/chroniqueurs/michele-ouimet/200910/07/01-909109-lattente.php), and I could have sworn another one, in English, said he was a fisherman (which I can't find now).
The area of the boat ramp where the body was found is not far from Anjou, where the mom lives.
Is it possible that Natasha's dad liked to fish, had a boat and used this ramp, and that Trottier, knowing N's parents, was indeed familiar with the location?
Just trying to look at all angles and connections.
The cellphone issue is confusing.
BF claims he tried to get a hold of her all night on Thursday but yet those pings weren't picked up but the one call made on Friday led them to the ping? Wouldn't the cellphone provider have record of that? Maybe it's because I don't completely understand how it works.
In one of the French articles it's stated that Natasha's dad was a sailor (http://www.cyberpresse.ca/opinions/chroniqueurs/michele-ouimet/200910/07/01-909109-lattente.php), and I could have sworn another one, in English, said he was a fisherman (which I can't find now).
The area of the boat ramp where the body was found is not far from Anjou, where the mom lives.
Is it possible that Natasha's dad liked to fish, had a boat and used this ramp, and that Trottier, knowing N's parents, was indeed familiar with the location?
Just trying to look at all angles and connections.
Anjou is not far at all. I posted it yesterday as an FWIW.
The only report I saw stated her dad was a sailor but I could've missed some.
It's pouring rain here today. I hope evidence is not lost and they gathered most of the evidence yesterday.
omsk99
10-07-2009, 03:18 PM
The cellphone issue is confusing.
BF claims he tried to get a hold of her all night on Thursday but yet those pings weren't picked up but the one call made on Friday led them to the ping? Wouldn't the cellphone provider have record of that? Maybe it's because I don't completely understand how it works.
I'm with you on the whole cell phone thing. Unless, it as moved between Thursday and FridaY?.. Or, just a better reception on Friday? If there was no reception and MT tried to call her, would there be a record with the cell phone company?..
lune3
10-07-2009, 03:30 PM
I'm with you on the whole cell phone thing. Unless, it as moved between Thursday and FridaY?.. Or, just a better reception on Friday? If there was no reception and MT tried to call her, would there be a record with the cell phone company?..
I'm wondering that too. I don't really understand how the pings work either. Maybe it has something to do with MT having a different provider from the mom?
I keep wondering about MT's trip to Piedmont on Friday. I'm wondering if people saw him there. Since she wasn't at her home there, wouldn't he have asked a neighbour? Natasha could have been out shopping or something. In his shoes, I would have knocked on neighbour's doors.
Was Natasha planning on going there or to the Old Montreal apartment on Thursday night? If to the Old Montreal apt, if I were MT, I would have going looking for her that night rather than next day. I don't know.
omsk99
10-07-2009, 06:23 PM
Homicide victim identified as missing Corrections Canada employee
MONTREAL - The body of a female homicide victim has been identified as a missing Corrections Canada official.
Natasha Cournoyer mysteriously vanished last week after leaving her office building just north of Montreal.
The Quebec coroners' office has confirmed that a body found in a wooded area of the city was indeed the missing 37-year-old.
Video surveillance showed Cournoyer, a communications agent at Corrections Canada, leaving work but her car never left the parking lot.
Her boyfriend, Michel Trottier, has offered up the theory she was kidnapped.
http://www.metronews.ca/toronto/canada/article/333580--homicide-victim-identified-as-missing-corrections-canada-employee
RIP :rose:
omsk99
10-07-2009, 06:28 PM
"It is not yet clear how Cournoyer died. "
http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091007/mtl_natasha_cournoyer_id_confirmed_091007/20091007/?hub=MontrealHome
This article (below) has some new information:
~snips
"Despite knowing Cournoyer was very likely a homicide victim the Laval police organized the search of a very broad area in Laval. The search in Laval on Wednesday was based on knowledge that Cournoyer’s cell phone had been receiving calls on Friday, a day after she was last seen alive as she left an office building where she worked.
“What we know is that her family tried to contact her from Thursday night to Friday until the phone’s battery went dead. On Friday the calls from her family went through the same (celullar phone) tower,” Laval police Constable Natalie Lorrain said.
“Her cell phone wasn’t used but it received calls. That is why we are concentrating on this area, either to find that cell phone or any other object that might have been hers.”
"A police source said they were also searching for a pair of shoes Cournoyer might have been wearing when she disappeared. Cournoyer’s body was barefooted when it was discovered in thick bushes underneath a hydro power line tower next to a dirt road that leads to the shore of the St. Lawrence River. "
More at the link:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Body+found+Pointe+Trembles+Cournoyer+police/2078491/story.html#
I heard the news on my home from work.
Prayers going out to Natasha's family. :rose:
RIP :rose: Hope they find the monster who did this.
omsk99
10-07-2009, 07:57 PM
Per this article in French (last paragraph), Michel said Natasha would have had contact with inmates, but LE have not, however, established such a connection (between her and the inmates, I guess).
http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/Montreal/2009/10/07/006-cournoyer-natasha-mort.shtml
Per this article in French (last paragraph), Michel said Natasha would have had contact with inmates, but LE have not, however, established such a connection (between her and the inmates, I guess).
http://www.radio-canada.ca/regions/Montreal/2009/10/07/006-cournoyer-natasha-mort.shtml
If you read the comments, there is alot of confusion as to what her job entailed. IIRC, one of the articles quoted her supervisor who confirmed Natasha had no contact with inmates. She worked in the communications department. Not sure what her responsibilities were. Maybe more information will come out in the coming days.
Laval police:
Cournoyer began working for Correctional Service of Canada in May. She was part of its communications department, contributed to an internal journal for employees and edited speeches.
“She did go to certain penitentiaries to arrange parties or ceremonies for staff who were leaving or retiring. She might have crossed an inmate in a corridor but she no reason, as part of her job, to interact with an inmate. Her responsibilities had nothing to do with when an inmate would get released,” Lorrain said.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Dead+body+Cournoyer+police+confirm/2078491/story.html
omsk99
10-07-2009, 08:31 PM
Laval police:
Cournoyer began working for Correctional Service of Canada in May. She was part of its communications department, contributed to an internal journal for employees and edited speeches.
“She did go to certain penitentiaries to arrange parties or ceremonies for staff who were leaving or retiring. She might have crossed an inmate in a corridor but she no reason, as part of her job, to interact with an inmate. Her responsibilities had nothing to do with when an inmate would get released,” Lorrain said.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Dead+body+Cournoyer+police+confirm/2078491/story.html
That's how I understood that, too - that she had no direct contact, and no need for contact with inmates, working in the Communications dept. I think MT simply said she would have been exposed to contact with them, but like it says here, in passing. This reminds me of Kristi Cornwell, who had such contact but years earlier (prior to her disappearance), IIRC.
lune3
10-07-2009, 08:33 PM
I just got back and saw the most recent posts. Though it was strongly suspected the body was Natasha's, it still comes as a shock.
I hope they catch the savage who did this.
My heart goes out to her friends and family,... her mom especially.
:rose:
I just got back and saw the most recent posts. Though it was strongly suspected the body was Natasha's, it still comes as a shock.
I hope they catch the savage who did this.
My heart goes out to her friends and family,... her mom especially.
:rose:
My first thought went to her mom. I can't imagine what this poor woman must be going through. Losing her husband last year and her only daughter this year. So heartbreaking. :crying:
I hope LE doesn't let this one slip away. I'm really concerned.
That's how I understood that, too - that she had no direct contact, and no need for contact with inmates, working in the Communications dept. I think MT simply said she would have been exposed to contact with them, but like it says here, in passing. This reminds me of Kristi Cornwell, who had such contact but years earlier (prior to her disappearance), IIRC.
True. Kristi Cornwell does come to mind. I hope Kristi's case turns out to be a positive one.
omsk99
10-07-2009, 08:41 PM
My first thought went to her mom. I can't imagine what this poor woman must be going through. Losing her husband last year and her only daughter this year. So heartbreaking. :crying:
I hope LE doesn't let this one slip away. I'm really concerned.
Me too. Lindsay Buziak's and Jessica Neilsen's murders are still unsolved, as is Cedrika's disappearance. Cases go cold everywhere, of course, let's just hope it's not one of them.
lune3
10-07-2009, 08:43 PM
My first thought went to her mom. I can't imagine what this poor woman must be going through. Losing her husband last year and her only daughter this year. So heartbreaking. :crying:
I hope LE doesn't let this one slip away. I'm really concerned.
Same here, I don't know how she will cope. She lives alone.
Please let us know if you hear of developments there. I hope LE has leads.
Same here, I don't know how she will cope. She lives alone.
Please let us know if you hear of developments there. I hope LE has leads.
I will keep you posted if anything develops. Don't hold your breath though. Canada and its privacy laws are a pain when following cases. Unless there's a break, the media stops covering it. Just recently we had a brief update on Jessica Neilson's case and cops are still looking for clues. Not to mention sweet Cedrika who is still missing. Not very encouraging.
I'm hoping that because 2 police forces are involved (Laval & Montreal) there is a better chance that the perp will get caught. Crossing my fingers and praying.
omsk99
10-07-2009, 08:50 PM
"An autopsy had yet to be completed.
"It's going to be completed tomorrow," said Const. Olivier Lapointe. "Then we'll know things we don't know yet. About what is cause of death, was there a weapon used or only physical restraint."
Lapointe said the body was clothed and did not appear to be in an advanced state of decomposition.
Cournoyer's on-again, off-again boyfriend Michel Trottier told media earlier this week that he would submit to a polygraph test. But Lapointe said police have made no such request.
"So far, there's no suspect that's been identified," he said.
"He's the one who went forward everywhere in the press to tell he's ready to pass the test, but we didn't ask him. We cannot get into that."
Investigators are now working their way backward, from the crime scene where the body was discovered, to the spot outside Cournoyer's office building. "
http://www.eastottawa.ca/article-cp75483131-Police-identify-missing-corrections-worker-as-homicide-victim.html
ETA: Interesting, how it says the body was clothed, and only one article mentions that she was barefoot when the body was found.
"An autopsy had yet to be completed.
"It's going to be completed tomorrow," said Const. Olivier Lapointe. "Then we'll know things we don't know yet. About what is cause of death, was there a weapon used or only physical restraint."
Lapointe said the body was clothed and did not appear to be in an advanced state of decomposition.
Cournoyer's on-again, off-again boyfriend Michel Trottier told media earlier this week that he would submit to a polygraph test. But Lapointe said police have made no such request.
"So far, there's no suspect that's been identified," he said.
"He's the one who went forward everywhere in the press to tell he's ready to pass the test, but we didn't ask him. We cannot get into that."
Investigators are now working their way backward, from the crime scene where the body was discovered, to the spot outside Cournoyer's office building. "
http://www.eastottawa.ca/article-cp75483131-Police-identify-missing-corrections-worker-as-homicide-victim.html
ETA: Interesting, how it says the body was clothed, and only one article mentions that she was barefoot when the body was found.
I don't know if it's just me but I get the impression the cops are not too impressed with the BF. Anybody else get that same feeling? There's something odd about the way he comes across. Maybe it's just me and my suspicious mind.
The body being clothed is very interesting. I wonder if she was sexually assaulted. If not, I would suspect it could be someone who was p'd off at her.
BF
Coworker
Inmate
Friend
Why would her shoes be missing???
lune3
10-07-2009, 09:09 PM
You know n/t, I can't help having the same feeling. I did not suspect any involvement before...but now something's nagging at me.
If police did not ask for an LTD, that would assume he has a solid alibi. If he has a solid alibi, then why is he insisting?
Other things now bother me too.
You know n/t, I can't help having the same feeling. I did not suspect any involvement before...but now something's nagging at me.
If police did not ask for an LTD, that would assume he has a solid alibi. If he has a solid alibi, then why is he insisting?
Other things now bother me too.
Not necessarily, lune. If they believe he is involved, an LDT is worthless especially since it can't be used in court. IIRC, they questioned him and perhaps they're still checking him out.
There are still so many unanswered questions and very bizarre circumstances. To name a few:
The cellphone is still missing and the ping is in Duvernay. Duvernay is a residential area, why would the perp dispose of the cellphone there or was it Natasha who threw it out the window?? Why would he go through Duvernay? From St-Martin Boulevard, he could've gone over the Pie-IX Bridge and be on the Island in minutes? I honestly can't figure this part out. It's making me crazy. I didn't have much time today at work to talk to coworkers who live in Laval but I'll ask what they think.
Why would he then leave Laval to end up in East End Montreal to dispose of her body in Pointe-Aux-Trembles when he could've easily disposed of her body in Laval?
Why are her shoes missing?
Why in PAT....only 15 minutes from her mom's home?
I wish Grant would come back and give us a link to Trottier's facebook. Did any of you find a public facebook page for him? I could only find the private one and I have to become a friend to view what's on there.
lune3
10-07-2009, 09:56 PM
Not necessarily, lune. If they believe he is involved, an LDT is worthless especially since it can't be used in court. IIRC, they questioned him and perhaps they're still checking him out.
There are still so many unanswered questions and very bizarre circumstances. To name a few:
The cellphone is still missing and the ping is in Duvernay. Duvernay is a residential area, why would the perp dispose of the cellphone there or was it Natasha who threw it out the window?? Why would he go through Duvernay? From St-Martin Boulevard, he could've gone over the Pie-IX Bridge and be on the Island in minutes? I honestly can't figure this part out. It's making me crazy. I didn't have much time today at work to talk to coworkers who live in Laval but I'll ask what they think.
Why would he then leave Laval to end up in East End Montreal to dispose of her body in Pointe-Aux-Trembles when he could've easily disposed of her body in Laval?
Why are her shoes missing?
Why in PAT....only 15 minutes from her mom's home?
I question the Duvernay thing too. Also, an upthread link outlines the borders of the tower ping capability. Duvernay is not within the area, but on the OTHER side of the 19.
I question:
MT's immediate statement that it was his belief she was kidnapped. What about hurt or sick?
MT did not go out looking for her on Thursday (as far as we know) night after those frantic calls to her.
Why go out all the way to Piedmont first, on Friday? Though this could be explained.
How did he know what she was wearing, UNLESS she spent the night with him in Old Montreal on Wednesday.
None of his calls were pinged.,,ok maybe a different cell provider.
P.A.T. location really bothers me because of it's proximity to Anjou and the fact that MT MAY have been aware of the place IF N's dad used that boat ramp (since he was a sailor..liked boats, fishing, possibly)
P.A.T. location also bothers me because why would a perp drive TOWARDS built up areas rather than away. (perp was already off the island, why go onto it?)
Body being so carelessly hidden..to be quickly found, why? (one thought, guilt and to spare the mom the torment of the unknown, for someone who KNEW the mom)
No shoes but glasses? LE asked family if she wore glasses, presumably they found glasses. Shoes? Maybe they were sandals that would easily fall off? But it's already coldish in Montreal, right?
The outpouring of words on facebook over and above the initial statement that TM was grieving her as 'mon ange". Maybe it's his way of grieving, the shock, expressing himself to give some solace? Possibly.
The fact that they were on/off relationship and a report that they were no longer together.
Many of these questions could be answered with perfectly reasonable answers, ...We just don't have the complete info or circumstances. But I feel uneasy about some of them.
d5cents
10-07-2009, 09:57 PM
I have parked and worked at the Place Laval before. The parking lot is huge and one side of it (furthest from the buildings that make up the complexe) is remote and poorly lit. It is quite possible the victim was taken against her will. That said I still don't understand the on again off again boyfriend angle. Was the relationship with the victim ongoing at the time of her dissapearance? He seemed to go into overdrive the moment she went missing: visiting the mother, staying with the mother, answering all media requests, distributing posters, even posting stuff on his facebook page and offering himself up right away for the LDT. I am not pointing fingers but I doubt I would have the same ability to function that well if a loved one went missing. I pray the police solve this quickly to help bring some sort of closure to the family.
I question the Duvernay thing too. Also, an upthread link outlines the borders of the tower ping capability. Duvernay is not within the area, but on the OTHER side of the 19.
I question:
MT's immediate statement that it was his belief she was kidnapped. What about hurt or sick?
MT did not go out looking for her on Thursday (as far as we know) night after those frantic calls to her.
Why go out all the way to Piedmont first, on Friday? Though this could be explained.
How did he know what she was wearing, UNLESS she spent the night with him in Old Montreal on Wednesday.
None of his calls were pinged.,,ok maybe a different cell provider.
P.A.T. location really bothers me because of it's proximity to Anjou and the fact that MT MAY have been aware of the place IF N's dad used that boat ramp (since he was a sailor..liked boats, fishing, possibly)
P.A.T. location also bothers me because why would a perp drive TOWARDS built up areas rather than away. (perp was already off the island, why go onto it?)
Body being so carelessly hidden..to be quickly found, why? (one thought, guilt and to spare the mom the torment of the unknown, for someone who KNEW the mom)
No shoes but glasses? LE asked family if she wore glasses, presumably they found glasses. Shoes? Maybe they were sandals that would easily fall off? But it's already coldish in Montreal, right?
The outpouring of words on facebook over and above the initial statement that TM was grieving her as 'mon ange". Maybe it's his way of grieving, the shock, expressing himself to give some solace? Possibly.
The fact that they were on/off relationship and a report that they were no longer together.
Many of these questions could be answered with perfectly reasonable answers, ...We just don't have the complete info or circumstances. But I feel uneasy about some of them.
All good points, lune. Not sandal wear weather here that's for sure. It would be interesting to know what route is taken from Piedmont to PAT? Would highway 19 take you there and would they have to go through Duvernay?
Didn't Natasha have a rendez vous with her mom on Thursday night? Why didn't MT call mom?
I have parked and worked at the Place Laval before. The parking lot is huge and one side of it (furthest from the buildings that make up the complexe) is remote and poorly lit. It is quite possible the victim was taken against her will. That said I still don't understand the on again off again boyfriend angle. Was the relationship with the victim ongoing at the time of her dissapearance? He seemed to go into overdrive the moment she went missing: visiting the mother, staying with the mother, answering all media requests, distributing posters, even posting stuff on his facebook page and offering himself up right away for the LDT. I am not pointing fingers but I doubt I would have the same ability to function that well if a loved one went missing. I pray the police solve this quickly to help bring some sort of closure to the family.
d5 you make a good point regarding the parking lot. That's why it's not making any sense to me if this was a random abduction why drive all the way off island to the east end of Montreal. Well first of all he would've had to go North then East again. I just don't get it.
lune3
10-07-2009, 10:20 PM
All good points, lune. Not sandal wear weather here that's for sure. It would be interesting to know what route is taken from Piedmont to PAT? Would highway 19 take you there and would they have to go through Duvernay?
Didn't Natasha have a rendez vous with her mom on Thursday night? Why didn't MT call mom?
You just made me think of the possibility that Natasha may not have been killed on Thursday night. For some reason that was my belief, but what if she wasn't?
Piedmont to PAT? Are you thinking she was taken to home to Piedmont first? Very strange if he did since there's a heck of a lot of isolated spots in the Laurentides to dispose of a body.
I think the body was put there during nighttime, not Friday daytime.
The Blvd de la Concorde crosses the 19. I think the perp just stayed on that road and then crossed the river at the next bridge, into Montreal Nord and onto Pie IX or Henri Bourassa E.
I just thought of something regarding her glasses. The pictures we've seen of her, she's not wearing glasses. It could be she removed them for the pictures or she wore contact lenses during the day and took off her lenses at night after work and put on her glasses.
I have to go back to look but did the missing flyer say she was wearing jeans? Could she have gotten a ride from someone she knew, kicked back, removed her shoes, took off her contact lenses and put on her glasses........someone she was very comfortable with??
lune3
10-07-2009, 10:27 PM
I have parked and worked at the Place Laval before. The parking lot is huge and one side of it (furthest from the buildings that make up the complexe) is remote and poorly lit. It is quite possible the victim was taken against her will. That said I still don't understand the on again off again boyfriend angle. Was the relationship with the victim ongoing at the time of her dissapearance? He seemed to go into overdrive the moment she went missing: visiting the mother, staying with the mother, answering all media requests, distributing posters, even posting stuff on his facebook page and offering himself up right away for the LDT. I am not pointing fingers but I doubt I would have the same ability to function that well if a loved one went missing. I pray the police solve this quickly to help bring some sort of closure to the family.
I'm wondering the same thing, regarding the relationship and MT's intense activity after N disappeared. I still really wonder why the only possibility in his mind was that she was kidnapped, and not possibly sick or hurt and why he didn't go looking for her that night.
As for his "overdrive", maybe out of fear and the need to do something? An overabundance of adrenaline to keep active and purposeful?
kelloggirl
10-07-2009, 10:27 PM
I wish Grant would come back and give us a link to Trottier's facebook. Did any of you find a public facebook page for him? I could only find the private one and I have to become a friend to view what's on there.
I found a public one for Natasha, which may be what he was referring to:
Natasha Cournoyer - Missing (http://www.facebook.com/NatashaCournoyer?ref=mf)
Yes, it does bother me that the boyfriend immediately says "kidnapping". What about car accident? Could that explain his driving to Piedmont first? I don't know, if I was worried about someone that I thought didn't make it home from work, I think I would start at work, rather than the final destination, but of course it depends on where he was to begin with.
I agree with you on the tone of the police in regards to the boyfriend in that latest article. They sound slightly irritated, and perhaps a subtle warning to media not to believe everything he says?
But I also agree that a large, poorly lit parking lot is also a a great place for an abduction of opportunity.
You just made me think of the possibility that Natasha may not have been killed on Thursday night. For some reason that was my belief, but what if she wasn't?
Piedmont to PAT? Are you thinking she was taken to home to Piedmont first? Very strange if he did since there's a heck of a lot of isolated spots in the Laurentides to dispose of a body.
I think the body was put there during nighttime, not Friday daytime.
The Blvd de la Concorde crosses the 19. I think the perp just stayed on that road and then crossed the river at the next bridge, into Montreal Nord and onto Pie IX or Henri Bourassa E.
I just got shivers down my spine. Henri Bourassa is full of traffic lights except when you cross over from RDP to PAT. Where would he have hidden her without anyone noticing especially on a Thursday night? Stores close at 9 pm, alot of traffic on the road.
I wonder if the perp told her he'd give her a lift to her mom's? I still believe it's someone she knew.:sad:
lune3
10-07-2009, 10:43 PM
I just got shivers down my spine. Henri Bourassa is full of traffic lights except when you cross over from RDP to PAT. Where would he have hidden her without anyone noticing especially on a Thursday night? Stores close at 9 pm, alot of traffic on the road.
I wonder if the perp told her he'd give her a lift to her mom's? I still believe it's someone she knew.:sad:
Here's the map. Henri Bourassa take you right to PAT, practically right to that area where she was found. Follow the route. It also takes you through industrial areas which I imagine must be quite isolated at night. Why not hide the body there? Again why on earth in that spot in PAT, with houses bordering on both sides? It's like it's a personal thing to the perp.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=Duvernay+Quebec&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Duvernay,+Laval,+QC,+Canada&gl=us&ei=fz3NSoqUBpHysQOizqi3Dg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1
I found a public one for Natasha, which may be what he was referring to:
Natasha Cournoyer - Missing (http://www.facebook.com/NatashaCournoyer?ref=mf)
Yes, it does bother me that the boyfriend immediately says "kidnapping". What about car accident? Could that explain his driving to Piedmont first? I don't know, if I was worried about someone that I thought didn't make it home from work, I think I would start at work, rather than the final destination, but of course it depends on where he was to begin with.
I agree with you on the tone of the police in regards to the boyfriend in that latest article. They sound slightly irritated, and perhaps a subtle warning to media not to believe everything he says?
But I also agree that a large, poorly lit parking lot is also a a great place for an abduction of opportunity.
Thanks for the link . I don't think that's the one. There's one being circulated on facebook and it's MT's page but when I click on it, it says private and have to become a friend to view it. He has a picture of 2 white doves on his profile.
Here's the map. Henri Bourassa take you right to PAT, practically right to that area where she was found. Follow the route. It also takes you through industrial areas which I imagine must be quite isolated at night. Why not hide the body there? Again why on earth in that spot in PAT, with houses bordering on both sides? It's like it's a personal thing to the perp.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=Duvernay+Quebec&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Duvernay,+Laval,+QC,+Canada&gl=us&ei=fz3NSoqUBpHysQOizqi3Dg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1
I've never been that far east to where her body was found but I know the area right before PAT.:sad:
I'll see you all tomorrow. Have a good night.
RIP Natasha :rose:
lune3
10-07-2009, 10:54 PM
Thanks for the link . I don't think that's the one. There's one being circulated on facebook and it's MT's page but when I click on it, it says private and have to become a friend to view it. He has a picture of 2 white doves on his profile.
When I tried, I found 38 MT's, with at least 25 in Montreal. A lot were faceless. I gave up.
lanceman
10-08-2009, 04:38 AM
There are 4 towers, at the Place Laval. It contains
a lot of offices, for various services, such as medical
clinics, lawyers, government agencies, collection agencies,
computer services, etc.
There are cleaning and maintenance people late at night, in
the afternoon and as late as 10 PM.
There are security guards facing the parking lot, even at 12 AM or 1 PM
often, smoking outside, watching the parking lot as well.
The parking lot has a red car (?) that regularly patrols the area,
in search of people who don't have their parking sticker or
permit hanging from their rear view mirror, and that car rolls
around the lot, probably every couple of hours at least.
When they find a car without a sticker, they tow it to the lot,
which is EXACTLY IN FRONT of where the "scary" parking area
is located, from what I've seen in terms of the yellow ribboned
off area, over the past few days.
That tow truck place is a 24/7 operation, where ppl can recover
their towed car for $100 plus taxes, for example.
So, there's 2 security guys at 12 AM or 1 PM standing on the stairs, right in
front of the parking area used by Natasha Cournoyer last week
or so they say. There's the tow truck operation 24/7.
There's people leaving the nearby buildings collecting their cars
up until 12 AM mainly, regularly.
There's a Wendy's restaurant, also up until 12 AM.
Therefore, the odds of a "violent" or "stanger" kidnapping is very
unlikely, IMO.
Secondly, most animosities today, are motivated by money and power,
greed and fear. In the workplace, especially in high paid, high benefit,
pension paid jobs like government ones, there's a big focus and huge
leverage in terms of personal charisma. As such, everyone is very sensitive
to other people's skills, experience, talents, education and their potential
for getting promotions ahead of themselves. Jealously, whether in a loving
relationship, or boss/ co-worker relationship is central to what may occur,
in terms of violence, impact on financial status, employment status, etc.
Did anyone trace who was doing Natasha's communications office job before
she was doing it, starting in May 2009? Was the earlier employee fired, so
that Natasha was hired in his or her place? Any disgrunted ex-workers? What
about current jealous colleagues ?
Second, very strange is her choice to reside in Piedmont, which is 65 KM
from Montreal, or 60 KM from Laval. Why ? Most people reside right beside
their workplace. Her close friend Trottier lives in Old Montreal. Why didn't
she choose to reside in a place not far from that individual. She lived
away from her Mom. Why ?
Most people would suggest a double-life, such as having a sideline job
in Mont Saint Sauver, which is right beside Piedmont. Does the public
know anything ? This is suspicious to me... it takes people at rush
hour, living 10 minutes from Place Laval maybe 1 hour to 80 minutes
in the morning to get to work, whereas outside rush hour 10 mins.
In fact, from Piedmont, the ride is perhaps 2.5 hours (guess) during
morning traffic. Why put up with this ? Why ? There is so much
housing in Montreal, and Laval and surrounding areas.
Finally, I would suggest investigation the condominum families and people
in her building, as perhaps they disliked her single-person lift style,
if it was a gated community, with family lifestyles.
Overall, investigate coworkers and love interests for jealousies and
animosities, keeping in mind the problems that money causes and lack of it,
and also neighbors, who might not have liked her personality and lifestyle.
Hi lance and thanks for your input and detailed description of the parking lot.
I also believe it's someone she knew and according to this article their sources claim police are seriously looking at the theory that Natasha knew her abductor and murderer.
It goes on to say that police will be interviewing everyone on the surveillance video seen around the area.
I wonder if and where she stayed during the week? She may have had a condo/apartment in Piedmont but according to this article, one of her neighbours said she would come on the weekend. Maybe she stayed with her mom during the week and would head back to her place on the weekend? Or maybe she stayed with MT?
Still no suspects.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/justice-et-faits-divers/200910/07/01-909385-les-proches-de-natasha-cournoyer-atterres.php
La Presse (article above) also claiming police sources believe she was strangled. They also found blood on her face which they believe may have resulted from a fall. Not sure how they came to that theory. Maybe no other bruises on her face??
Investigators informed her family yesterday afternoon after receiving confirmation of the identity from the coroners' office. An autopsy had yet to be completed.
"It's going to be completed tomorrow," said Const. Olivier Lapointe. "Then we'll know things we don't know yet. About what is cause of death, was there a weapon used or only physical restraint."
Lapointe said the body was clothed and did not appear to be in an advanced state of decomposition.
Cournoyer's on-again, off-again boyfriend Michel Trottier told media this week he would submit to a polygraph test. But Lapointe said police have made no such request.
"So far, there's no suspect that's been identified," he said. "He's the one who went forward everywhere in the press to tell he's ready to pass the test, but we didn't ask him."
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/10/08/11340281-sun.html
Her cellphone still missing. They found a cellphone yesterday but it did not belong to Natasha. According to this article, there's indication that her purse is also missing.
http://lejournaldequebec.canoe.ca/journaldequebec/actualites/quebec/archives/2009/10/20091007-234744.html
So far, her cell, purse and shoes are missing?
I went back to an older article. This says Natasha and MT shared both dwellings. Also, she was supposed to meet her mom on the Friday.
Interesting that the other article stated that she would go to her Piedmont home mostly on weekends. If she was going to meet her mother on Friday, why would she go home to Piedmont, then to her mother's and then to work?? Heck, that would've taken her more than 4 hours. Makes no sense.
====
Cournoyer didn’t return repeated Trottier’s repeated phone calls on Thursday night. She was supposed to sleep at her house in Piedmont, while Trottier stayed in his apartment in Old Montreal. Trottier and Cournoyer share both dwellings.
On Friday, she missed a meeting with her mother at her home in Anjou. Trottier went to Place Laval and found Cournoyer’s car in the lot. That’s when he called police.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Partner+fears+Natasha+Cournoyer+kidnapped/2066431/story.html
Police hunting for Cournoyer's killer
Body identified in autopsy; 'She was a very, very nice girl,' uncle says of woman who vanished in Laval last week
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Police+hunting+Cournoyer+killer/2079943/story.html
New developments in last hours
Police believe Natasha knew her murderer.
Police believe she was murdered in Laval.
Items belonging to the victim have been found where the cellphone pings (boul de la Concorde & Highway 19).
Her shoes and cellphone still missing.
http://www.rockdetente.com/montreal/actualites/nouvelles-locales/112645-du-nouveau-dans-l-enquete-sur-natasha-cournoyer/
OK....here's the latest from one of my coworkers who lives in Laval and also listens to a french radio station. Mr. Claude Poirier is a renowned crime reporter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_Poirier
MT apparently has a solid alibi. He was at his apartment/condo watching the hockey game and there are security cameras so it would be easy for cops to check his comings and goings.
Natasha was supposed to meet her mom on Friday to pick out a tombstone for her dad who passed away 6 months ago. :sad:
Perp allegedly took boul. Laurentides to get to Highway 19 which crosses the Papineau Bridge. So he took Papineau and not Pie 1X .
Natasha knew her murderer.
BevAnn
10-08-2009, 09:57 AM
I assume LE is combing through her things, computer, etc....since her and MT were on again and off again - maybe she had someone else...maybe since she had been with MT very recently (that day/day before) the new someone else was jealous she wasn't ending things with MT for good??
I assume LE is combing through her things, computer, etc....since her and MT were on again and off again - maybe she had someone else...maybe since she had been with MT very recently (that day/day before) the new someone else was jealous she wasn't ending things with MT for good??
I'm assuming they are going through her things. They did go to her home in Piedmont last Saturday.
Your theory about another guy in her life being jealous is possible. Maybe he expected more out of the relationship.
Tragic day for Corrections Canada employee began with talk of promotion
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5iYl0sac3ADqvQyeBDQayPAgE9FGw
Article says she was filling in for an employee on maternity leave.
lanceman
10-08-2009, 01:56 PM
Assuming it is true that Natasha Cournoyer was replacing a lady
on maternity leave, and let's assume for a moment, too, that there
were job openings and promotions opening up, and let's assume as
well that NC had more education, skills, experience and drive for
success than the earlier person (yet to be verified or researched)
the outcome of this, could be that the closest pals of the lady
she's replacing took steps to ensure that NC would not exceed her
designed role in the organization. Which was a TEMP worker.
For someone at 37 years of age, with a fiancé or similar, and ready
to "take a lot more space" in the small, right-knit department of
corrections where everyone knows each other, everyone makes
a $50,000+ per year, perhaps $80,000 and up, full pension, full benefits,
and so on ... the prospect of losing all of that to a fast, up and coming,
bright and attractive lady, perhaps promoted and overtaking or
replacing the earlier lady could be too much to bear by her pals.
The latter would have acted to protect the interests of the original
employee ... either in person or by contract, with the underworld.
It's very likely it would have been a former love interest or neighbor,
as well, or a second life in Saint Sauver.
NC seemed to live alone, not unlike Nelly Arcand ... the latter reportedly
worked in escort services for VIP's in the literary and cultural social circle
in Quebec, rubbing elbows with the famous and had psychological weaknesses. If
that's the explanation for residing alone 65 km away from her workplace
near a town that the Rich and Wealthy attend, and to rub elbows with them,
and with Tourists (Mont St Sauveur) it could also have been a former John that
wanted to protect his privacy and reputation by burying a past relationship as a John
with her...but ... there's no evidence the 2 ladies shared the same sideline.
Aside from that, what evidence was there, that Nelly Arcand committed suicide, other
than her discussing it? Simulations of suicides occur on a regular basis ... remember
the death of Alexander Litvinenko... an inconvenient journalist, to the rich and powerful.
The KGB took him out, with a plutonium contaminated object at a restaurant, which itself
had to be renovated as the radiation at the table was still at dangerous levels even after
the Russian died from exposure to radiation after meeting the KGB agent at that death-trap.
omsk99
10-08-2009, 01:59 PM
I wish Grant would come back and give us a link to Trottier's facebook. Did any of you find a public facebook page for him? I could only find the private one and I have to become a friend to view what's on there.
Hi n/t :seeya:
This might have already been answered, but even if Grant would give us the link, it would still be the same - we'd have to be friends with MT to see the page, if it's not public.
lanceman
10-08-2009, 02:34 PM
These pictures are a few weeks old, already.
As you can see, the parking lot is split into 2 parts, because of
construction work in the back.
If criminal act was premeditated, it would not likely have been planned
long ago, but more likely, spontaneous and immediate. With the lot
split like this, the back-part which is dangerous, suggests to be
out of reach and unusable, whereas the front part has perfect
lighting.
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/lanceman2010/NC_4.jpg
On the right side here, until the very back part, there is perfect
lighting as well. Doesn't seem spooky at all. And the Wendy's
is 1 minute walk to the RHS of this fence
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/lanceman2010/NC_5.jpg
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/lanceman2010/NC_3.jpg
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/lanceman2010/NC_2.jpg
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/lanceman2010/NC_1.jpg
This is where the tow truck driver, and 24/7 towing business,
that manages the parking lot, oversees it, tows cars and vehicles
all the time back into this private lot operates. It also sends out
a small sub-compact car, sniffing around to find out who has their
parking ticket or not, and if not, sends out the towing vehicle to
bring it back here, where they charge $100 plus taxes.
The way I see it, for every action, there's often an equal and opposite reaction.
Women with babies, or those unable to have babies, sometimes committ irrational acts ... like stealing babies from other women's cribs at the hospitals ( if unable to have them), or commit acts of heinous violence, in order to "protect their baby" from other individuals. If Natasha Cournoyer
was thinking of upgrading her TEMP job into a PERM job, or getting a step ahead of her
replacement on maternity leave ... the pals who are often co-conspirators, may have acted upon
the original employee's suggestions of taking her out.
omsk99
10-08-2009, 02:44 PM
Statement From Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan on the Death of CSC Employee Natasha Cournoyer
OTTAWA, ONTARIO -- (Marketwire) -- 10/08/09 -- The Honourable Peter Van Loan, Minister of Public Safety, made the following statement today in response to the tragic death of a Correctional Service of Canada employee.
"I wish to extend my sympathies to the family, friends and colleagues of Natasha Cournoyer, an employee of the Correctional Service of Canada's Quebec regional office who had been missing since Thursday, October 1.
Ms. Cournoyer was a 37-year old internal communications officer who joined the CSC in May of 2009.
Ms. Cournoyer will be remembered for her enthusiasm and energy, as well as her commitment to her role in communications with the CSC."
Contacts:
Public Safety Canada
Media Relations
613-991-0657
http://in.sys-con.com/node/1138149
omsk99
10-08-2009, 02:51 PM
"Meanwhile, autopsy results should be available on Thursday, said Montreal Const. Olivier Lapointe.
Cournoyer's body was clothed and was not in an advanced state of decomposition, but it's not clear whether a weapon was used in her death, Lapointe said."
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/10/08/quebec-laval-cournoyer-missing.html
n/t, I wanted to address your earlier question about how MT knew what Natasha was wearing. I think it was known what she was wearing from co-workers and the surveillance video, why do you wonder how he knew it? I do agree with you and other posters here, though, that his behavior has been over the top. But not knowing him personally, it's hard to know if this is his typical behavior under stress & worry, or he is way too willing to help... If he does have a solid alibi, his behavior can be explained by a huge loss and worry, maybe he was into her a lot more than she was into him, which is why they were on/off again. By all accounts, it seems she knew the perp... The missing shoes is a very strange detail, I am sure she wasn't wearing flip-flops which could have fallen off.
lune3
10-08-2009, 02:55 PM
Very informative details about the parking lot and the fact that people are around till late at night. Thanks lanceman.
I'm just thinking about the theory proposed regarding jealousy and competition in the workplace. Office politics are a fact of life and can lead to all sorts of animosity and trouble...but murder? I'm just not sure.
Also, if such were the case, would such a person in the workplace, a person I'd assume is fairly educated and has no ties to seedier sides of life, take her all the way to that strange place in Pointe aux Trembles? Would such a person know about that spot hidden within a residential area? The perp who did this, I think was FAMILIAR with that boat ramp place IMO. Why take Natasha back onto Montreal Island through built up areas when it would have been easier and less dangerous to go north, out of Laval to less developed areas, better hiding places where there was less chance to be witnessed.
Now, the workers in the vehicle impounding place, the tow workers, security guards, cleaning personnel....blue collar workers etc...I can see that more of a possibility especially if they were often outside and may have have been watching Natasha...she was a very attractive woman. I also believe that whatever happened was not premeditated but opportunistic.
Piedmont, I don't know why she had a place there...../was she an avid skiier? Maybe she enjoyed the Laurentians and liked a more rural area as her own oasis away from the city. I also understood she shared the Old Montreal place with MT. I don't think at this point that I would consider that N may have led some sort of double life.
As for MT's alibi...is that settled then? Are there surveillance cameras at the fire escapes, the garage if there is one? I'm still bothered by the fact he so quickly assumed she was kidnapped and did not go looking for her on Thursday night. She could have been in an accident, been sick, fell and hurt her head..anything.
I do believe she knew the perp too, whoever it was. I hope that LE is very much on this and that he will be caught.
I can't help thinking of her poor mother, I do hope she is surrounded close friends who can offer her the greatest support. I worry about her.
I don't think it was someone who was out to get her because of her job status. Going from temp to perm or anything to do with her promotion. I still believe it's a guy who she perhaps dated when she and MT had a falling out in their relationship. Maybe she and MT were off and just recently got back together and the perp couldn't accept that she ended the relationship to get back with MT.
"Meanwhile, autopsy results should be available on Thursday, said Montreal Const. Olivier Lapointe.
Cournoyer's body was clothed and was not in an advanced state of decomposition, but it's not clear whether a weapon was used in her death, Lapointe said."
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/10/08/quebec-laval-cournoyer-missing.html
n/t, I wanted to address your earlier question about how MT knew what Natasha was wearing. I think it was known what she was wearing from co-workers and the surveillance video, why do you wonder how he knew it? I do agree with you and other posters here, though, that his behavior has been over the top. But not knowing him personally, it's hard to know if this is his typical behavior under stress & worry, or he is way too willing to help... If he does have a solid alibi, his behavior can be explained by a huge loss and worry, maybe he was into her a lot more than she was into him, which is why they were on/off again. By all accounts, it seems she knew the perp... The missing shoes is a very strange detail, I am sure she wasn't wearing flip-flops which could have fallen off.
I don't think I was the one who questioned why the BF knew what she was wearing. My question was what she was wearing. I wondered if she was wearing jeans and what the dress code was at work. In other words, if she was in jeans, did she go someplace to change? I haven't found anything where it stated what she was wearing. It was to do with the discussion we were having last night regarding her glasses and trying to come up with a theory as to why her shoes are missing.
lune3
10-08-2009, 03:06 PM
"Meanwhile, autopsy results should be available on Thursday, said Montreal Const. Olivier Lapointe.
Cournoyer's body was clothed and was not in an advanced state of decomposition, but it's not clear whether a weapon was used in her death, Lapointe said."
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/10/08/quebec-laval-cournoyer-missing.html
n/t, I wanted to address your earlier question about how MT knew what Natasha was wearing. I think it was known what she was wearing from co-workers and the surveillance video, why do you wonder how he knew it? I do agree with you and other posters here, though, that his behavior has been over the top. But not knowing him personally, it's hard to know if this is his typical behavior under stress & worry, or he is way too willing to help... If he does have a solid alibi, his behavior can be explained by a huge loss and worry, maybe he was into her a lot more than she was into him, which is why they were on/off again. By all accounts, it seems she knew the perp... The missing shoes is a very strange detail, I am sure she wasn't wearing flip-flops which could have fallen off.
That was me who questioned how MT would know what she was wearing. It was reported that it was him who furnished that info. At the time I thought she lived in Piedmont full time, but since then I learned that she shared an apt with MT...so he would know.
As for his over the top involvement in her search, that's not really a red flag to me as he was distraught and fearful, and purposeful activity is a normal reaction for some people under such stress. My only thing is that Thursday night...why did he wait till Friday after he couldn't reach her with all those calls. Then we don't know, maybe he took off to Piedmont in the wee hours of Friday morning.
Very informative details about the parking lot and the fact that people are around till late at night. Thanks lanceman.
I'm just thinking about the theory proposed regarding jealousy and competition in the workplace. Office politics are a fact of life and can lead to all sorts of animosity and trouble...but murder? I'm just not sure.
Also, if such were the case, would such a person in the workplace, a person I'd assume is fairly educated and has no ties to seedier sides of life, take her all the way to that strange place in Pointe aux Trembles? Would such a person know about that spot hidden within a residential area? The perp who did this, I think was FAMILIAR with that boat ramp place IMO. Why take Natasha back onto Montreal Island through built up areas when it would have been easier and less dangerous to go north, out of Laval to less developed areas, better hiding places where there was less chance to be witnessed.
Now, the workers in the vehicle impounding place, the tow workers, security guards, cleaning personnel....blue collar workers etc...I can see that more of a possibility especially if they were often outside and may have have been watching Natasha...she was a very attractive woman. I also believe that whatever happened was not premeditated but opportunistic.
Piedmont, I don't know why she had a place there...../was she an avid skiier? Maybe she enjoyed the Laurentians and liked a more rural area as her own oasis away from the city. I also understood she shared the Old Montreal place with MT. I don't think at this point that I would consider that N may have led some sort of double life.
As for MT's alibi...is that settled then? Are there surveillance cameras at the fire escapes, the garage if there is one? I'm still bothered by the fact he so quickly assumed she was kidnapped and did not go looking for her on Thursday night. She could have been in an accident, been sick, fell and hurt her head..anything.
I do believe she knew the perp too, whoever it was. I hope that LE is very much on this and that he will be caught.
I can't help thinking of her poor mother, I do hope she is surrounded close friends who can offer her the greatest support. I worry about her.
No his alibi hasn't been confirmed by LE that I'm aware of. We know he's not a suspect. They have no suspects.
Claude Poirier was the one who apparently brought that up on one of the french radio programs.
lune3
10-08-2009, 03:24 PM
I don't think it was someone who was out to get her because of her job status. Going from temp to perm or anything to do with her promotion. I still believe it's a guy who she perhaps dated when she and MT had a falling out in their relationship. Maybe she and MT were off and just recently got back together and the perp couldn't accept that she ended the relationship to get back with MT.
Thinking about this....would a guy she dated drive onto that parking lot to confront her after work? Maybe. Would he know that she was working late, or were these her regular hours? I just wonder if a guy who was jealous or obsessed with her wouldn't rather approach her someplace else, in Piedmont for example, I don't know.
The fact that her car was parked in that unsafe unlit area..to me that has a lot to do with this. I'm leaning at this point to some guy having watched her and taken an opportunity. Some guy who was a regular there and someone she knew in passing.
I don't know..makes me think of a scary experience I had in Ottawa late at night in a parking lot. Winter, lots of snowbanks, dark, and my locks were frozen. I couldn't get into my car. Another car with a couple of guys started circling me, it was terrifying, noone around. Then a police car came into the lot,,and the guys took off. Police helped me get into my car. If it wasn't for the policeman, I shudder to think what could have happened.
Maybe in this case it was something similar.
Leanne Weich
10-08-2009, 03:37 PM
I wonder if she was a super friendly person and one of the parking attendants had a thing for her. Someone in that position would know when patrols would be around and would be in the best position to accost her if he wanted. Wonder if anyone left abrubptly or knocked off at he time Natasha was going to her car?
omsk99
10-08-2009, 04:26 PM
That was me who questioned how MT would know what she was wearing. It was reported that it was him who furnished that info. At the time I thought she lived in Piedmont full time, but since then I learned that she shared an apt with MT...so he would know.
As for his over the top involvement in her search, that's not really a red flag to me as he was distraught and fearful, and purposeful activity is a normal reaction for some people under such stress. My only thing is that Thursday night...why did he wait till Friday after he couldn't reach her with all those calls. Then we don't know, maybe he took off to Piedmont in the wee hours of Friday morning.
Sorry for the confusion, to both you and n/t!
regarding Thursday... Maybe they were "off again" and he didn't want to panic just because she wasn't calling him back? I really would like to know if they on or off, and whether she was seeing or started seeing someone else at the same time (he coudl have gotten jealous).
She might have lost shoes in the struggle (I am assuming she put up a struggle, especially since there were signs of violence, and if the reports are true, blood).
I'm also very curious to find out what of her belongings was found in eth area where the cell phone signal was caught.
omsk99
10-08-2009, 04:32 PM
~snips
"Vallee said the late employee did communications work, noting that her own speeches were written by Cournoyer and that she also edited a departmental newsletter.
However, Vallee moved to dismiss any suggestion her job might have had anything to do with the killing. She said Cournoyer rarely came into contact with prisoners.
She said Cournoyer occasionally visited prisons for “protocol“ issues — and that’s it. Vallee noted that Cournoyer, like any other visitor, was always escorted at the facilities.
“She did not participate in activities involving inmates,” Vallee said.
“She visited some institutions . . . but she was in charge of activities involving correctional staff and she was not in contact with inmates.”
"Sources say at least one personal object belonging to Cournoyer was found by a highway that runs out of Laval, into Montreal.
Some media reports say personal ID was found at the site near Highway 19.
But a Montreal police spokesman wasn’t able to offer any information on the discovery.
Const. Andre Leclerc said major crimes investigators had nothing new to report on their investigation. "
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/canada/2009/10/08/11346821.html
Interesting to find out what was found at the site. Why woudl her ID (if that's true) be out there by itself? Was that a pass ID to get into her building, and maybe it was attached to ehr clothing, so the per ripped it off and threw it out to delay ID process?..
~snips
"Vallee said the late employee did communications work, noting that her own speeches were written by Cournoyer and that she also edited a departmental newsletter.
However, Vallee moved to dismiss any suggestion her job might have had anything to do with the killing. She said Cournoyer rarely came into contact with prisoners.
She said Cournoyer occasionally visited prisons for “protocol“ issues — and that’s it. Vallee noted that Cournoyer, like any other visitor, was always escorted at the facilities.
“She did not participate in activities involving inmates,” Vallee said.
“She visited some institutions . . . but she was in charge of activities involving correctional staff and she was not in contact with inmates.”
"Sources say at least one personal object belonging to Cournoyer was found by a highway that runs out of Laval, into Montreal.
Some media reports say personal ID was found at the site near Highway 19.
But a Montreal police spokesman wasn’t able to offer any information on the discovery.
Const. Andre Leclerc said major crimes investigators had nothing new to report on their investigation. "
http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/canada/2009/10/08/11346821.html
Interesting to find out what was found at the site. Why woudl her ID (if that's true) be out there by itself? Was that a pass ID to get into her building, and maybe it was attached to ehr clothing, so the per ripped it off and threw it out to delay ID process?..
One of the french articles mentioned her purse being missing. Maybe they found her wallet with ID?
I wonder if she was a super friendly person and one of the parking attendants had a thing for her. Someone in that position would know when patrols would be around and would be in the best position to accost her if he wanted. Wonder if anyone left abrubptly or knocked off at he time Natasha was going to her car?
Could be. The police believe Natasha knew the perp but it could've been a parking attendant, security guard...anyone she was friendly with. At this point it sounds like it could be anyone.
I hope they get a break in the case and solve it ASAP.
Thinking about this....would a guy she dated drive onto that parking lot to confront her after work? Maybe. Would he know that she was working late, or were these her regular hours? I just wonder if a guy who was jealous or obsessed with her wouldn't rather approach her someplace else, in Piedmont for example, I don't know.
The fact that her car was parked in that unsafe unlit area..to me that has a lot to do with this. I'm leaning at this point to some guy having watched her and taken an opportunity. Some guy who was a regular there and someone she knew in passing.
I don't know..makes me think of a scary experience I had in Ottawa late at night in a parking lot. Winter, lots of snowbanks, dark, and my locks were frozen. I couldn't get into my car. Another car with a couple of guys started circling me, it was terrifying, noone around. Then a police car came into the lot,,and the guys took off. Police helped me get into my car. If it wasn't for the policeman, I shudder to think what could have happened.
Maybe in this case it was something similar.
Yikes!!! You were very lucky.:scared:
lune3
10-08-2009, 04:57 PM
Natasha Cournoyer’s death a 'big loss,' boss says
“She was excellent. She was appreciated by all of us. She was very professional and we foresaw her having a long career with Correctional Service of Canada(CSC),” said Johanne Vallée, Quebec’s deputy commissioner for CSC, during a news conference held outside the office building where Cournoyer worked.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Natasha+Cournoyer+death+loss+boss+says/2082136/story.html
omsk99
10-08-2009, 05:59 PM
Per this article in French:
1) The ID which was found in the area where her cell phone signal was picked up, is a photo ID. Located on the border of HWY 19. The phone has never been found.
2) According to certain sources, the body had been where it was found for several days, and she was most likely killed the evening she went missing, or during the night that followed.
3) It is unknown at this time if the she was killed there or her body was left there. Although sources do say, she was strangled, there were signs of violence on the body, and the autopsy is not yet complete (NB: They may not tell us anyway!).
4) While looking for evidence, LE found numerous objects, such as jewelry, cell phones and clothes, but none of them belonged to Natasha.
Not much new, but a new source for some of the things we have already heard elsewhere (COD, ID, etc).
http://www.ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/faitsdivers/11941-suivi-cournoyer
lune3
10-08-2009, 06:39 PM
Per this article in French:
1) The ID which was found in the area where her cell phone signal was picked up, is a photo ID. Located on the border of HWY 19. The phone has never been found.
2) According to certain sources, the body had been where it was found for several days, and she was most likely killed the evening she went missing, or during the night that followed.
3) It is unknown at this time if the she was killed there or her body was left there. Although sources do say, she was strangled, there were signs of violence on the body, and the autopsy is not yet complete (NB: They may not tell us anyway!).
4) While looking for evidence, LE found numerous objects, such as jewelry, cell phones and clothes, but none of them belonged to Natasha.
Not much new, but a new source for some of the things we have already heard elsewhere (COD, ID, etc).
http://www.ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/faitsdivers/11941-suivi-cournoyer
It's strange that the ID card was found on the side of the highway that runs north, according to the article, the opposite direction to where she was found. Did the perp initially want to take her north and then u turned to go in the other direction?
lanceman
10-08-2009, 07:16 PM
" Why take Natasha back onto Montreal Island through built up areas when it would have been easier and less dangerous to go north, out of Laval to less developed areas, better hiding places where there was less chance to be witnessed. "
First, why was NC killed at 37 years of age, and not over the past
30 years ? What changed here?
It's clear that:
1) she began a new job, in May. This changed.
2) there was some construction work over the past 4 weeks, and
a lot of construction workers were onsite all day long, over the past
month too. Those were people new to the area, watching the parking
lot all day long, as they're driving and working in the yard, laying
asphalt, digging up the street sewer, bringing up a fence, etc.
3) perhaps she reconnected and then broke up and reconnected
again with the individual, Trottier. Maybe this is new.
4) how long was NC residing in Piedmont ? Is that a new residence ?
Maybe, it took time for her neighbors to get to know her, and
they didn't like what they saw, or suspected. Sometimes, in gated
communities (if this is one, in fact, as a condo) the neighbors frown
upon people who are different than them, especially if they're all
retired rich folk, or familes with kids, etc.
5) she made contact with inmates. This is the most difficult part.
What would any inmate have to gain by placing a hit on a public
relations person ?
6) the reason the papers talk of no sexual assault, and about the
ease in finding the body, is unfortunately, the killer visibly wasn't
interested in rape or money (nobody reported on emptied bank
accounts, or ATM card, or stolen jewelry, or stolen car, etc),
is because someone wanted to get Natasha Cournoyer "out of the
way" If it was a colleague or rival at work, the money is by keeping
the job, and not being passed over for NC or terminated because she
was a better worker or smarter of faster or more beautiful or more
athletic or younger, etc. If it was a former lover, what does that
ex-lover have to gain by killing the girl ? What is the point of getting
her out of the way ? Payback for being dumped ? Not sure what
relief or remedy this would bring about to the killer, from that insidous
act.
7. most drug addicts kill for money, to buy drugs. This wasn't the
case apparently. Nothing was stolen. This means the killer knew
exactly what he was doing, when he was doing it, and the
consequences of doing it, and what he or she had to gain from
doing it. Perhaps it's a new social phenomenon.... of godless people
who kill others the same way they drink a cup of coffee....someone
fill me in, what is in the minds of young people today.
5- finally, when interviewed by Claude Poirier, the twilight moment
was when Trottier said that "people masterbate inside the parking lot".
Who ? When? What ? I've never heard of anyone suggesting having
seen or done heard of that. It that a sign of mental weakeness ?
Here's a parking sign nearby:
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/lanceman2010/NC_6.jpg
lune3
10-08-2009, 07:22 PM
Just reread that article, where is was questioned why N's ID card would be found on the north side of the road, and the speculation that it may have been dumped AFTER she was killed, which is actually more likely.
But then that begs the question: why would he put her body out in Pointe aux Trembles and then backtrack to head north again near the area from where she was abducted? Does this guy live north someplace? Piedmont perhaps? I just can't fathom taking her to that particular spot.
Lance, I'll comment on a few of your points. By all accounts, her neighbours had no problems with her and they liked her. Some are tourists. It's not unusual for someone (Montrealers) to own or rent a place up North. Many have cottages. Avid skiers and/or those who love the country. I wish I could afford it, I'd have a place up there too.
She made no contact with inmates and that was clearly stated by her boss and law enforcement. She had no interaction with any inmates.
A former lover usually doesn't have a logical motive to kill. To them, it's the "if I can't have her, nobody else will". That's why they call it a crime of passion and in this case, if she was strangled and beaten without sexual assualt, it could very well be a case of anger/revenge/jealousy.
Yes the killer knew exactly what he was doing and where to dispose of her.
#8 - First time I hear this. When did Trottier say that and how would he know?
The photo of parking nearby you posted, where is that sign posted? One article (which I will find later) states that by 8 am the parking lot is full and that's why some who start their work day later have a difficult time finding a spot and have to park at the back where Natasha did.
Just reread that article, where is was questioned why N's ID card would be found on the north side of the road, and the speculation that it may have been dumped AFTER she was killed, which is actually more likely.
But then that begs the question: why would he put her body out in Pointe aux Trembles and then backtrack to head north again near the area from where she was abducted? Does this guy live north someplace? Piedmont perhaps? I just can't fathom taking her to that particular spot.
The PAT is really a big question mark. I don't get it.
lanceman
10-08-2009, 08:01 PM
> #8 - First time I hear this. When did Trottier say that and how
> would he know?
http://videos.lcn.canoe.ca/video/43606437001/disparition-son-conjoint-se-confie-a-claude-poirier/#
http://videos.lcn.canoe.ca/video/43869258001/claude-poirier-6-octobre/
http://videos.lcn.canoe.ca/video/43969533001/claude-poirier-7-octobre/
It's either this video, or another in the same video section of TVA
there. It's towards the end. I agree that the body was still warm
when Trottier posted on Facebook that NC "was dead" ...then
posts that huge message about listening to a fancy composer when
thinking back on old times, while speaking to a camera in a baseball
cap, unshaven, and talking about how "people masterbate in the
parking lot at Place Laval". Again, who told him that ? NC ? When
was that suggested to have happened ? Night ? Day ? Afternoons ?
Are those kids ? I would suggest Trottier has some psychological
issues here.
> The photo of parking nearby you posted, where is that sign posted?
The parking sign is posted all over the place, every 20 meters are thereabout.
They're tough on parking. If the killer was waiting for her, without being inside
his or her own car, it would have been towed in no-time at all. That parking
operation and tow-truck are vultures.
The surviving mother, should sue the parking lot company, for not posting a proper security
guard in the middle of the large lot, considering the money they make and the small amount
it otherwide would cost. If they tow 1 car in a day, that's enough to pay the salary of 1 full
time security person in the parking lot.
Let the company know how you feel:
COMINAR
4915 Rue Pare, Montreal
Tel. (514) 337-8151
lune3
10-08-2009, 08:08 PM
Lance, do you know if that security guy who monitors the parking lot, and the tow truck operation people, would still be there that late at night? After all, it's past the end of the working day and most people parking there would already have gone home. What are the chances somebody would park there without the proper sticker at that time of night?
lanceman
10-08-2009, 08:26 PM
Lance, do you know if that security guy who monitors the parking lot, and the tow truck operation people, would still be there that late at night? After all, it's past the end of the working day and most people parking there would already have gone home. What are the chances somebody would park there without the proper sticker at that time of night?
1 - the tow truck operation is 24/7, as far as I know. Because,
people whose car was towed, need to get the car back no matter
it if's business hours, or 1 AM. For sure, they are open at those hours.
2- in terms of security people, they are 24/7 ... and I've seen
2 security guards in front of the building watching the dark parking
lot side (on the left side, overwall) past midnight.
3- most activity is definitely ended, on a daily basis, by 12:30 ...
but 12 AM is the end of the last evening shift of many surrounding
business, whether it's the Wendy's fast food, I.T. companies near by,
maintenance ppl, electricians, plumbers, and so on renovating various
entire floors presently, in the 2 buildings out front.
4- weekends, the lot is really empty ... only a handful of cars
5 - as stated, if the killer parked his car there, without sitting in
the driver's seat, it would have been towed in the first 20 minutes
surely, back in the garage. It's not the tow truck that digs around
to see cars lacking the sticker ....it's a small econo-car that makes
that check, and then using a cell phone to call the garage to request
the tow truck go onsite, for a $100 sales revenue plus taxes for
the garage, per car.
lune3
10-08-2009, 08:34 PM
Thanks Lance, that answers my question about the personnel at the parking lot.
I just watched the video, the Oct 7th one. Did I hear the commentator say that someone, at the site where N was found, saw something and that his info and identity are presently being withheld? It's near the beginning of that video. I may have misunderstood...my French is not as good as it used to be.
> #8 - First time I hear this. When did Trottier say that and how
> would he know?
http://videos.lcn.canoe.ca/video/43606437001/disparition-son-conjoint-se-confie-a-claude-poirier/#
http://videos.lcn.canoe.ca/video/43869258001/claude-poirier-6-octobre/
http://videos.lcn.canoe.ca/video/43969533001/claude-poirier-7-octobre/
It's either this video, or another in the same video section of TVA
there. It's towards the end. I agree that the body was still warm
when Trottier posted on Facebook that NC "was dead" ...then
posts that huge message about listening to a fancy composer when
thinking back on old times, while speaking to a camera in a baseball
cap, unshaven, and talking about how "people masterbate in the
parking lot at Place Laval". Again, who told him that ? NC ? When
was that suggested to have happened ? Night ? Day ? Afternoons ?
Are those kids ? I would suggest Trottier has some psychological
issues here.
> The photo of parking nearby you posted, where is that sign posted?
The parking sign is posted all over the place, every 20 meters are thereabout.
They're tough on parking. If the killer was waiting for her, without being inside
his or her own car, it would have been towed in no-time at all. That parking
operation and tow-truck are vultures.
The surviving mother, should sue the parking lot company, for not posting a proper security
guard in the middle of the large lot, considering the money they make and the small amount
it otherwide would cost. If they tow 1 car in a day, that's enough to pay the salary of 1 full
time security person in the parking lot.
Let the company know how you feel:
COMINAR
4915 Rue Pare, Montreal
Tel. (514) 337-8151
Wow.....thanks for posting the video. I totally changed my mind about Trottier. He is not involved at all. In all fairness, he brought up the information about the masturbation because Poirier asked him. You notice how uncomfortable he was even talking about it and he kept saying he didn't want to get anyone in trouble because this was information given to him by some of the women who worked in the building furthermore, he mentions a coworker of Natasha who was always around her. Again, he says he doesn't want to mention any names and Poirier agreed.
Trottier was very forthcoming and honest. You can tell how choked up he got when Poirier asked him if he thought something bad happened to Natasha. :sad:
I also understand now why the cops may not be too happy that he talks to the media. He made a subtle statement that they didn't take him seriously at first and it took them a couple of hours to finally get going.
Very sad to listen and watch. My heart goes out to him.
lune3
10-08-2009, 08:37 PM
n/t, which of the three videos was that? I watched the Oct 7 one but stopped when he started to talk about unrelated news, and that video was an hour long.
n/t, which of the three videos was that? I watched the Oct 7 one but stopped when he started to talk about unrelated news, and that video was an hour long.
The first link Lance posted.
This one lune
http://videos.lcn.canoe.ca/video/43606437001/disparition-son-conjoint-se-confie-a-claude-poirier/#
omsk99
10-08-2009, 08:47 PM
Object found near Laval highway linked to Natasha Cournoyer
MONTREAL - Laval police Thursday say they have found an object possibly linked to homicide victim Natasha Cournoyer on the side of Highway 19, near de la Concorde Blvd. Details concerning the object, which was located yesterday, have yet to be released.
Police say they will close one lane of northbound Highway 19 between de la Concorde and St. Martin Blvd. this morning as a safety precaution while officers conduct a more thorough search of the highway median and the sides of the road."
http://www.globalmontreal.com/world/Object+near+Laval+highway+linked+Natasha+Cournoyer/2078491/story.html
Pretty comprehensive article, a brief interview with Natasha's uncle.
Lance, you're so right about the parking lot. This is so incredibly sad and disturbing. Natasha supposedly left at 8 pm. Althought it's dark out at that time, it's not late at all. Many women leave their jobs at that time or later.
This is so depressing. Are women not safe anywhere anymore??
They're looking for a vehicle that was spotted where Natasha's body was found. However, they won't disclose any other information to avoid jeopardizing the investigation.
http://www.rockdetente.com/montreal/actualites/nouvelles-locales/112756-natasha-cournoyer-le-spvm-a-la-recherche-d-un-vehicule/
lanceman
10-08-2009, 08:59 PM
> You notice how uncomfortable he was even talking about it and he
>kept saying he didn't want to get anyone in trouble because this was
>information given to him by some of the women who worked in the
>building
I didn't recall earlier, because Trottier was mentioning sexual maniacs
sitting in the parking lot, and I found that highly unlikely, bizarre
to say the least.
But, it dawned on me and I can confirm around the 3rd week of September,
either on the 22 or 23, or 29 or 30 of September, that 2 kids,
a girl and a guy, were having sex around the middle of the lot
around midnight ...with one of them standing up facing the car,
with the driver's side door opened, with their clothes unbuttoned.
So, at least young adults are confirmed to do that, rarely, but it's not the
only place.
Randomly, chances are you will spot kids with their
clothes unbottoned, or shirts off, and doing things in public. And only
if your eyesight is reasonably okay and they're near the public lighting
that it becomes obvious. It seems few and far between.
Today's youth isn't what it used to be.
lune3
10-08-2009, 09:00 PM
This one lune
http://videos.lcn.canoe.ca/video/43606437001/disparition-son-conjoint-se-confie-a-claude-poirier/#
Thanks n/t, I just watched it. I agree with you. He's not involved at all. He comes across as completely sincere and forthcoming. No hesitations, no looking for words, no shiftiness, no sign whatsoever that he might have something to hide. And yes I got the impression he tried to control himself when he was asked if he suspected the worst. He looked as though he wanted to cry.
It is so sad, I feel really badly for the guy too.
It's the first time I hear of his job, human resources at a large company.
lune3
10-08-2009, 09:01 PM
They're looking for a vehicle that was spotted where Natasha's body was found. However, they won't disclose any other information to avoid jeopardizing the investigation.
http://www.rockdetente.com/montreal/actualites/nouvelles-locales/112756-natasha-cournoyer-le-spvm-a-la-recherche-d-un-vehicule/
Maybe this is the witness that was mentioned in the Oct 7 video. I sure hope it's a good lead.
lune3
10-08-2009, 09:05 PM
Object found near Laval highway linked to Natasha Cournoyer
MONTREAL - Laval police Thursday say they have found an object possibly linked to homicide victim Natasha Cournoyer on the side of Highway 19, near de la Concorde Blvd. Details concerning the object, which was located yesterday, have yet to be released.
Police say they will close one lane of northbound Highway 19 between de la Concorde and St. Martin Blvd. this morning as a safety precaution while officers conduct a more thorough search of the highway median and the sides of the road."
http://www.globalmontreal.com/world/Object+near+Laval+highway+linked+Natasha+Cournoyer/2078491/story.html
Pretty comprehensive article, a brief interview with Natasha's uncle.
Upthread there is a report that the object was her ID card, found on the side of Highway 19 going north... in the opposite direction of where she was found.
> You notice how uncomfortable he was even talking about it and he
>kept saying he didn't want to get anyone in trouble because this was
>information given to him by some of the women who worked in the
>building
I didn't recall earlier, because Trottier was mentioning sexual maniacs
sitting in the parking lot, and I found that highly unlikely, bizarre
to say the least.
But, it dawned on me and I can confirm around the 3rd week of September,
either on the 22 or 23, or 29 or 30 of September, that 2 kids,
a girl and a guy, were having sex around the middle of the lot
around midnight ...with one of them standing up facing the car,
with the driver's side door opened, with their clothes unbuttoned.
So, at least young adults are confirmed to do that, rarely, but it's not the
only place. Drive by any park, at 10 PM on Sunday nights,
for example, or evenings and chances are you will spot kids with their
clothes unbottoned, or shift off, and doing things in public. And only
if your eyesight is reasonably okay and they're near the public lighting
that it becomes obvious. It seems few and far between.
He didn't say kids having sex though. Big difference. If it's a man while watching women leave a building that's a big concern. I wonder if it was ever reported? I'll bet my last loony that it was and the cops did nothing. They probably went once, saw nothing and never went back.
Thanks n/t, I just watched it. I agree with you. He's not involved at all. He comes across as completely sincere and forthcoming. No hesitations, no looking for words, no shiftiness, no sign whatsoever that he might have something to hide. And yes I got the impression he tried to control himself when he was asked if he suspected the worst. He looked as though he wanted to cry.
It is so sad, I feel really badly for the guy too.
It's the first time I hear of his job, human resources at a large company.
Yup, his body language didn't give me any bad vibes. He looked straight at the camera and came across as very honest and sincere.
What a difference reading versus seeing with your own eyes.
lune3
10-08-2009, 09:10 PM
He didn't say kids having sex though. Big difference. If it's a man while watching women leave a building that's a big concern. I wonder if it was ever reported? I'll bet my last loony that it was and the cops did nothing. They probably went once, saw nothing and never went back.
Trottier also mentioned Natasha's call to him the night she was afraid, back in September. The suspicious car. What are the chances there are more than one man doing such a thing?
Maybe this is the witness that was mentioned in the Oct 7 video. I sure hope it's a good lead.
I hope so too. Good for them in not releasing the details of the car. I pray they get this guy. This case is really close to home and I am very upset that this happened to a beautiful young woman. I just want to cry.:crying:
lanceman
10-08-2009, 09:22 PM
If the usual suspects are not the ones to blame, it may also be
a gang of youths who committed a truely unimaginable act
and that's where the "generation gap" appears with today's
youths. Too often, in the papers, readers learn of drug abuse,
sex abuse, gambling, gang activity, lack of religious sentiment,
and character in today's generation. Not wanting to generalize,
but too often, 2009 is very different from 30 years ago.
What's interesting is we don't know about anything else missing except her shoes?? What about her wallet? ATM card? Did anyone try to use her ATM card? What about credit cards? Money?
They're holding alot close to their vests. I don't think young kids would get their thrills in murdering a women without a motive. There would have to be something in it for them. They would've taken her car or purse or something of value.
I don't think it's kids. I think it's someone who was obsessed with her. Probably stalked her.
lune3
10-08-2009, 10:01 PM
What's interesting is we don't know about anything else missing except her shoes?? What about her wallet? ATM card? Did anyone try to use her ATM card? What about credit cards? Money?
They're holding alot close to their vests. I don't think young kids would get their thrills in murdering a women without a motive. There would have to be something in it for them. They would've taken her car or purse or something of value.
I don't think it's kids. I think it's someone who was obsessed with her. Probably stalked her.
I thought I read that her purse was missing. I might be wrong though.
I"m wondering if her car was still locked or unlocked. Did she get as far as her car and actually unlock the door? Was she attacked on the way walking to it, or at her car?
I expect LE has checked to see if her ATM card was used, any credit cards..
I'm inclined to believe she was stalked too, someone interested in her rather than money.
ok this article says they're looking for her shoes, cellphone, purse and coat. The ID card that was found was her employee card. It goes on to say that a city worker noticed a small truck with 2 occupants a few hours before the discovery of her body. Still waiting on confirmation from autopsy report as to whether she was sexually assaulted.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/justice-et-faits-divers/200910/08/01-909858-affaire-cournoyer-la-police-mise-sur-des-images-de-cameras.php
Cops probe Cournoyer’s last hours
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Cops+probe+Cournoyer+last+hours/2083728/story.html
d5cents
10-09-2009, 09:28 AM
Re parking lot stickers. I spend a week working at the Place Laval last winter. The parking lot is divided into two sections. One for cars for regular employees (with parking stickers) and one for visitors. When the sticker section is full, employees park in the visitor lot. From what I believe, your car wouldn't be towed from the visitor section if you didn't have a sticker and I believe that is where NC's car was parked. That said, the lot is huge and the visitor section is very far from the closest building entrance.
Re parking lot stickers. I spend a week working at the Place Laval last winter. The parking lot is divided into two sections. One for cars for regular employees (with parking stickers) and one for visitors. When the sticker section is full, employees park in the visitor lot. From what I believe, your car wouldn't be towed from the visitor section if you didn't have a sticker and I believe that is where NC's car was parked. That said, the lot is huge and the visitor section is very far from the closest building entrance.
There was an article in the Gazette today stating that the building owner will make changes to the parking lot so employees can park closer to the entrance. I wonder if the building owner also owns the parking lot?
Still waiting on autopsy report. Police believe she wasn't sexually assaulted because she was fully clothed. If that's the case, what could the motive be?
lune3
10-09-2009, 01:16 PM
n/t, do you remember when in the day Natasha's body was discovered? The article says that the small truck was seen "some hours" before she was discovered. I wish we knew if those "some hours before" was during the night time hours.
I hope the autoroute surveillance cameras do pick up this small truck traveling north on Highway 19, and that there actually is a camera near the location where the ID card was thrown.
It's strange that Natasha was "fully clothed" but not wearing her coat, ..unless she was carrying it rather than wearing it when she was taken.
I hope they make progress today, the longer this goes on, the more chance this savage will get away.
omsk99
10-09-2009, 01:21 PM
Upthread there is a report that the object was her ID card, found on the side of Highway 19 going north... in the opposite direction of where she was found.
Yes, supposedly it was a photo ID. This was the first article in English that I've seen mention it, before they were all in French. I also read in one of the articles (maybe even this one), that if/when Natasha went to the building where inmates were, she had to use her ID card to get in. I wonder if that's the one, her work ID - this would (somewhat) explain why it was there by itself, unlike a driver's license or another ID card which you keep in your wallet/purse. If this was a name badge, she probably wore it pinned to her clothes, and it could have fallen off (along with the shoes??), or was thrown away on purpose.
omsk99
10-09-2009, 01:25 PM
n/t, do you remember when in the day Natasha's body was discovered? The article says that the small truck was seen "some hours" before she was discovered. I wish we knew if those "some hours before" was during the night time hours.
I hope the autoroute surveillance cameras do pick up this small truck traveling north on Highway 19, and that there actually is a camera near the location where the ID card was thrown.
It's strange that Natasha was "fully clothed" but not wearing her coat, ..unless she was carrying it rather than wearing it when she was taken.
I hope they make progress today, the longer this goes on, the more chance this savage will get away.
Sorry if I missed it, but how do you know she wasn't wearing a coat? I don't always wear a coat since I am in and out of the car and into my work building, but I live in SoCal, so the weather here is different, of course. But I do/don't do that even when it's cold, less hassle :wink:
n/t, do you remember when in the day Natasha's body was discovered? The article says that the small truck was seen "some hours" before she was discovered. I wish we knew if those "some hours before" was during the night time hours.
I hope the autoroute surveillance cameras do pick up this small truck traveling north on Highway 19, and that there actually is a camera near the location where the ID card was thrown.
It's strange that Natasha was "fully clothed" but not wearing her coat, ..unless she was carrying it rather than wearing it when she was taken.
I hope they make progress today, the longer this goes on, the more chance this savage will get away.
IIRC, it was in the afternoon. I remember hearing about it on my way home from work....5:30 ish.
I agree with you regarding her coat. It was 8 pm and it gets cool here at that time. Weird that her coat and shoes are missing. I wonder if the perp (s) thought there would be DNA on the outer wear stuff? Coat and shoes?
lune3
10-09-2009, 01:33 PM
IIRC, it was in the afternoon. I remember hearing about it on my way home from work....5:30 ish.
I agree with you regarding her coat. It was 8 pm and it gets cool here at that time. Weird that her coat and shoes are missing. I wonder if the perp (s) thought there would be DNA on the outer wear stuff? Coat and shoes?
I thought it was late in the day too, when the body was discovered. I can't see how a perp would have disposed of the body in broad daylight where houses line both sides of the area,and anyone could be around. In earliest reports it was said the place was also a plant nursery, under that pylon. If so, people would be working there.
I hope the "some hours before" in fact means a lot of time before, very early dark hours of the morning. Even then, it's kind of frightening to think that Natasha may have been kept alive a long time from when she was taken at 8pm the night before.
It will be informative if the autopsy can determine the TOD, Since she was found so quickly, I imagine they could get a fairly accurate time.
omsk99
10-09-2009, 01:35 PM
ok this article says they're looking for her shoes, cellphone, purse and coat. The ID card that was found was her employee card. It goes on to say that a city worker noticed a small truck with 2 occupants a few hours before the discovery of her body. Still waiting on confirmation from autopsy report as to whether she was sexually assaulted.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/justice-et-faits-divers/200910/08/01-909858-affaire-cournoyer-la-police-mise-sur-des-images-de-cameras.php
I just saw this link - this answers my question about the coat. This article also says that the only signs of violence were on her neck, implying a strangulation, but no others. That, and the fact that she was fully clothed (save the shoes and the coat - which I presume they know she was wearing), they don't think there was a sexual assault. This makes me think it was a personal revenge/rage/anger, possibly a confrontation or an argument that got out of hand (assuming she knew the perp, and got into his car for a quick talk or something like that).
lune3
10-09-2009, 01:38 PM
Sorry if I missed it, but how do you know she wasn't wearing a coat? I don't always wear a coat since I am in and out of the car and into my work building, but I live in SoCal, so the weather here is different, of course. But I do/don't do that even when it's cold, less hassle :wink:
Well they are saying her coat is missing. I think she might have been carrying the coat rather than wearing it when she walked to her car. The distance from building to car was evidently far...don't know what the weather was like that night. The surveillance camera that shows her leaving would show that anyway.
omsk99
10-09-2009, 02:03 PM
Per this article (in French), they also found a "paper" belonging to Natasha, in the same area where her ID card was found.
http://matin.branchez-vous.com/nouvelles/2009/10/natasha_cournoyer_lenquete_pro.html
BevAnn
10-09-2009, 02:53 PM
hhmmm...I'm still sticking with a jealous (new?) boyfriend....that's my theory at this point....would explain no sexual assault possibly. And I really feel she was dumped to be found. Which indicates someone that knew her and had feelings for her.
lanceman
10-09-2009, 04:44 PM
Re parking lot stickers. I spend a week working at the Place Laval last winter. The parking lot is divided into two sections. One for cars for regular employees (with parking stickers) and one for visitors. When the sticker section is full, employees park in the visitor lot. From what I believe, your car wouldn't be towed from the visitor section if you didn't have a sticker and I believe that is where NC's car was parked.
It's clear, that the ppl where NC worked, would park in the surrounding
parking, right in front of her own building in particular, (small parking
lot, requiring the parking pass on the read view mirror) or in the giant
parking lot. From the TV footage, her car was at the EXTREME left
hand side, far back section of the lot itself. Thus, again, it would need
to have the parking pass on the mirror. Conversely, if a vehicle is
parked right in front of the tow truck operation, mostly towards the right
hand side, looking from the garage, it's by PAYMENT with credit
card or cash, and also, a printout of the payment made and the 2 hour
ticket, left on the dashboard.
Any car, without the parking pass or printout, will get towed in
20 minutes or less, as explained earlier.
d5cents
10-09-2009, 10:58 PM
When I was there there were two lots...a smaller lot that employees could enter using a pass that lifted a gate..and a huge lot, half of which was reserved for permit holders and the other half for visitors (because alot of people visited the passport office which is located in one of the buildings. There was no gate for this lot and the visitor parking was a good distance away from the nearest building. I would like to see an aerial shot of the parking lot her car was found in to better orient myself.
lune3
10-09-2009, 11:17 PM
There don't appear to be any updates today.
I certainly hope LE is onto something, particularly after they requested the surveillance tapes from the Minister of Transport, of that stretch of the 19 where Natasha's ID was found. I wonder if that small truck has been located. If it was not related, I hope the owner has come forward, at least to rule the truck out.
Hope also they are finding some evidence, whether at the site where her body was found, or in the Laval area.
lanceman
10-10-2009, 02:04 AM
When I was there there were two lots...a smaller lot that employees could enter using a pass that lifted a gate..and a huge lot, half of which was reserved for permit holders and the other half for visitors
This makes 3 lots, of which I've mentioned only 2. The 3rd one, with
the gate that lifts up, has a full time person managing the entry, and is
intended mainly for the bank that is present on the corner. It's the
CIBC or National Bank, I'm not sure. And it's surprisingly small, for a
full time person to be there, whereas the huge lots, both with the ticket
paid for 2 hours or the other ones for the people with passes
has nobody at all, except for the towing garage and the building security
nearby, that already has their hands full, monitoring what goes on inside those 4 huge buildings.
Looking at world news today, it seems to open the door to an equally likely possibility
of jealousy of a current lover or former one, as it could be something relating to other
possibilities, as well. What proofs turn out to be, obviously will determine the outcome of
the investigation. I hope that the proofs turn up.
d5cents
10-10-2009, 07:22 AM
Tried to post a link to an aerial view of the parking lot (it was bugging me to try and remember the exact layout. The bottom most section (furthest away from the buildings is the visitor section. If you do a google maps search on 1 Place Laval, you will see both lots. The main one is huge and looks remote at the furthest end.
lanceman
10-10-2009, 03:53 PM
Tried to post a link to an aerial view of the parking lot (it was bugging me to try and remember the exact layout. The bottom most section (furthest away from the buildings is the visitor section. If you do a google maps search on 1 Place Laval, you will see both lots. The main one is huge and looks remote at the furthest end.
Maybe this helps:
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/lanceman2010/place_laval.jpg
Heidi J.
10-10-2009, 09:20 PM
Maybe this helps:
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/lanceman2010/place_laval.jpg
Thanks for posting that lanceman. Gives us a better idea. It is quite far away from the building:sad:
d5cents
10-10-2009, 10:50 PM
I knew that had to be the area where NC parked. It is the furthest away from the building and I am sure very dark as hell at night. When I worked there I used to park a few rows off to the right. Not a smart layout to not have a guard patrolling and/or cameras.
lanceman
10-11-2009, 03:29 AM
Not working in the police or penitentiary sectors of the economy and
of society, some would suggest that the murder was an act of vengence
after a long history of neglect or frustration by the detainees and convicts
against the so-called "screws" or prison guards.
Assuming it was a temp job since May 2009, it's a long-shot as far
as I can tell, that it was a convict or retailiation by the incarcerated.
Not knowing the curriculum vitae of the victim, NC, perhaps someone
can clarify this aspect. I just don't see what the detainees would have to gain. Someone fill me in why
people are suggesting that.
d5cents
10-11-2009, 10:34 AM
I'm with Lanceman on this. I don't see any convict connection here, especially since NC worked in a pr role and not as a guard or prison administrator. In 1997 there was a Quebec prison guard killed but that crime was committed by order of Maurice 'mom' Boucher, head of the Hell's Angels in Quebec. Even then it had nothing to do with inmate grudge or payback but rather a statement by the angels that they could basically do what they wanted, when they wanted.
I believe the perpetrator (s) was someone who knew her (maybe/maybe not on a personal level) abducted her and then committed the crime. Maybe the kidnapper saw NC's correctional services i.d., got spooked and pannicked. The police have been quiet these last couple of days. Hopefully because they are pursuing leads or info that will lead to an arrest very soon. Somehow somewhere either a road camera or driver/pedestrian out there saw something.
Because my english is not perfect and that a lot of you seems to understand french I will present my point of vue in french:
Je crois qu'on a affaire à un crime passionnel:
1- NC ne semble pas avoir voulu vivre avec MT à long terme sinon elle n'aurait pas choisi de s'acheter une maison à Piedmont. Si elle avait voulu faire sa vie avec MT, elle aurait plutôt acheté une maison à mis chemin entre son travail et le travail de MT (ex.: Ahuntsic).
2-mardi soir avant le meurtre, NC est allée dans un party sans MT. POURQUOI sans lui?
3- Jeudi soir, selon les propose de MT, ils ne devaient pas voir NC. POURQUOI? Pourtant, il dit avoir été chez lui regardant le hockey. L'aurait-elle quittée.
4- Je crois que la relation entre NC et MT n'allait vraiment plus bien et que NC posait beaucoup de gestes en ce sens. Ce qui a exaspéré MT.
5-Une amie de NC a laissé 2 messages sur la boite vocale de Claude Poirier en début de semaine disant que NC craingnait pour sa vie. Claude Poirier a demandé à cette personne sur les ondes de LCN de rappeller et de fournir ses coordonnées.
6-Lorsque MT a été interviewé par Claude Poirier (samedi je crois) après le meurtre mais avant qu'on retrouve le corps, MT parlait déjà en mettant ces temps de verbe au passé! "Natasha étAIT...". Psychologiquement, MT savait qu'elle était déjà morte sinon il aurait parlé au présent: " Natasha EST..." Dans la même entrevue, MT dit qu'il a retrouvé la voiture de NC vendredi au même endroit où elle l'avait stationnée jeudi. Comment MT pouvait-il savoir où était stationnée la voiture de NC jeudi soir???? (à moins d'y avoir été)
7-MT dit s'être d'abord rendu à Piedmont vendredi pour voir si NC y était. Pourquoi allez si loin en premier quand il pouvait d'abord s'arrêter à la Place Laval pour voir si elle était à son travail.
lanceman
10-11-2009, 03:56 PM
>> Je crois qu'on a affaire à un crime passionnel:
I think we should use "Occam's Razor " as the process to solve
this one. And also, QUI BUONO ?
Who benefits ?
Who is the most obvious killer here ?
Let's stop looking for a needle in the haystack, and open our
eyes to what is the most obvious, and find the evidence.
The police simply doesn't have the investigative talent here,
too often, with the number of missing people over the past 10 years.
They too often rely on stool pigeons or confidential informatants,
to lock up people.
They need to double their efforts and mental skills on this one,
even if it means calling in experts from the USA.
lune3
10-11-2009, 03:59 PM
Because my english is not perfect and that a lot of you seems to understand french I will present my point of vue in french:
Je crois qu'on a affaire à un crime passionnel:
You feel that this was a crime of passion.
1- NC ne semble pas avoir voulu vivre avec MT à long terme sinon elle n'aurait pas choisi de s'acheter une maison à Piedmont. Si elle avait voulu faire sa vie avec MT, elle aurait plutôt acheté une maison à mis chemin entre son travail et le travail de MT (ex.: Ahuntsic).
You feel that NC did not want to live with MT on a permanent or long term basis because otherwise she would not have bought a property in Piedmont, but would rather have been better to get something between her and his place of work. Of this I'm not sure since it was reported that they shared an apartment in Old Montreal. Maybe NC liked having a place away from the city and we don't know how long she had that place, maybe longer than 4 years, the time she has known MT? Maybe MT also spent some time in the Piedmont place.
2-mardi soir avant le meurtre, NC est allée dans un party sans MT. POURQUOI sans lui? On Tuesday of that week, NC went to a party without MT. It's possible he couldn't go? Or that they have an understanding that they do things separately sometimes? Or that it was a party that was amongst friends who MT did not know? We don't really know what the occassion was and the circumstances of why he didn't go with her, and there could be reasons which are perfectly understandable.
3- Jeudi soir, selon les propose de MT, ils ne devaient pas voir NC. POURQUOI? Pourtant, il dit avoir été chez lui regardant le hockey. L'aurait-elle quittée. I'm not sure what you mean here. Why did he not see NC? She was working. He said he was watching a hockey game at home.
4- Je crois que la relation entre NC et MT n'allait vraiment plus bien et que NC posait beaucoup de gestes en ce sens. Ce qui a exaspéré MT.
You believe things weren't going well in their relationship anymore and that NC was making a lot of gestures that point to that and that this was exasperating MT. Maybe. The relationship was reportedly on and off. At the same time, we are not sure how he reacted to that. Maybe he respected her independence? Maybe he was more into her than the other way around, but could that result in such rage and jealousy that he would murder her? Were there any incidents in the past that could point to such violence?
5-Une amie de NC a laissé 2 messages sur la boite vocale de Claude Poirier en début de semaine disant que NC craingnait pour sa vie. Claude Poirier a demandé à cette personne sur les ondes de LCN de rappeller et de fournir ses coordonnées.
A friend of NC called the journalist CP saying that NC feared for her life. I didn't know this. This is alarming. Could it have to do with that one incident when she was scared walking through the parking lot? Or something else?
6-Lorsque MT a été interviewé par Claude Poirier (samedi je crois) après le meurtre mais avant qu'on retrouve le corps, MT parlait déjà en mettant ces temps de verbe au passé! "Natasha étAIT...". Psychologiquement, MT savait qu'elle était déjà morte sinon il aurait parlé au présent: " Natasha EST..." Dans la même entrevue, MT dit qu'il a retrouvé la voiture de NC vendredi au même endroit où elle l'avait stationnée jeudi. Comment MT pouvait-il savoir où était stationnée la voiture de NC jeudi soir???? (à moins d'y avoir été)
MT talked about NC is the past tense, before her body was found. I'm not sure this is a red flag since his extreme fear and his belief that she was kidnapped and hurt may have resulted in such words. As for "knowing" where her car was parked that Friday when he went to look there, maybe he just searched for it, and found it. He didn't necessarily know in advance exactly where it was parked.
7-MT dit s'être d'abord rendu à Piedmont vendredi pour voir si NC y était. Pourquoi allez si loin en premier quand il pouvait d'abord s'arrêter à la Place Laval pour voir si elle était à son travail.He went 60 miles north to Piedmont before going to the parking lot (on the way and closer). I questioned this too, but then I figured it didn't cross his mind to go to her work. He may have thought she was more likely in Piedmont. My question though is why did he immediately assume a kidnapping when it's possible she had been in an accident or was hurt. Did he call hospitals that night?
Lolo, thanks for posting your thoughts. My replies are added in red. Trying to see all angles regarding MT's actions and circumstances. Playing devil's advocate here in trying to see a different side to what you are suspecting. I did see that interview with Claude Poirier and him, and to me, MT appeared sincere. I did not get my indication from body language that he may have had something to hide.
I just hope that LE has leads, that whoever did this, is arrested soon.
First, thanks a lot Lune3 for your translation of my thoughts.
For no 3: MT said that he was not supposed to see NC on thursday night even if he was home alone watching hockey game. It meens she was supposed to sleep at Piedmont that night. It seems they spend a LOT OF TIME separatly (it's why I'm thinking the relationship is not going so well and that MT may be desperated).
I would like to add that MT never told that his relationship with NC was not going very well. And it means a lot for me.
Others very strange coincidences are that everythings found by the police are on the road between highway 19 and Piedmont (north side) or near the family neighbourhood (ex.: the body).
What is very interesting in a psychological aspect is that the murder is an excessive action. MT seems very excessive in his interviews, researches, annoucements of NC's death before autorities, his letter on facebook. I would like to have a psychologist point of you on that?
lanceman
10-11-2009, 09:21 PM
A lot now, is a guessing game, with everyone putting forth their own hypotheses,
naturally.
Occam Razor suggests that
If two hypotheses are equally accurate and neither appears more probable
than the other, the simple one is to be preferred over the complicated one,
because simplicity is practical.
In terms of the possibility of a killer from the penitentiary, it ASSUMES
that NC was sufficiently in the penal system in terms of time, and ASSUMES
that she may or may not have caused a gripe among people and ASSUMES
that someone from that underworld was hired on a contract to do the kill, and
ASSUMES that money or favors were exchanged for the deed, and ASSUMES
that her car was unprotected as was the parking lot at 10 PM, etc.
That is a lot to assume.
Occams Razor doesnt want to assume anything, or at least, the very minimum.
In terms of the possibility of a gang or random killing, it ASSUMES that someone in Montreal,
took crack or amphetamines, ASSUMES they drove to the workplace
of NC randomly, for no reason, ASSUMES they were there at 10 PM, ASSUMES
they wanted to kill for no other reason than to kill, and ASSUMES they didnt
want sex or money, since none was taken apparently. The police reported no rape,
no robbery.
In terms of the possibility of a present or former lover being suggested, it is
FACT that the 2 (or 3, or 4...) knew each other, a FACT that the lover knew
where she worked, a FACT that they would have known the parking lot to
be insecure and dark at night, a FACT that some payback or jealousy could
have been created, ASSUMING NC had broken off the relationship. Is that
enough for a murder ... that is the question.
Occams Razor ...says ... look at the obvious, and find the evidence. That is
all. Stop assuming. Stop imagining concocted hypotheses one more unlikely
than the other, and convoluted, and imaginary.
It the police says what they said and its true, then the killer was a known individual
to the lady.
Obviously, it may not be Trottier who did the deed, but someone who was and is in
his entourage that was a mind-reader, and who MT was talking to a lot,
and decided to do the dirty work that MT himself could not bring himself to do...based
perhaps on a criminal record or time in the underworld, and past proof of violence.
I would suggest interrogations to all of MTs close friends and entourage.
Because my english is not perfect and that a lot of you seems to understand french I will present my point of vue in french:
Je crois qu'on a affaire à un crime passionnel:
1- NC ne semble pas avoir voulu vivre avec MT à long terme sinon elle n'aurait pas choisi de s'acheter une maison à Piedmont. Si elle avait voulu faire sa vie avec MT, elle aurait plutôt acheté une maison à mis chemin entre son travail et le travail de MT (ex.: Ahuntsic).
2-mardi soir avant le meurtre, NC est allée dans un party sans MT. POURQUOI sans lui?
3- Jeudi soir, selon les propose de MT, ils ne devaient pas voir NC. POURQUOI? Pourtant, il dit avoir été chez lui regardant le hockey. L'aurait-elle quittée.
4- Je crois que la relation entre NC et MT n'allait vraiment plus bien et que NC posait beaucoup de gestes en ce sens. Ce qui a exaspéré MT.
5-Une amie de NC a laissé 2 messages sur la boite vocale de Claude Poirier en début de semaine disant que NC craingnait pour sa vie. Claude Poirier a demandé à cette personne sur les ondes de LCN de rappeller et de fournir ses coordonnées.
6-Lorsque MT a été interviewé par Claude Poirier (samedi je crois) après le meurtre mais avant qu'on retrouve le corps, MT parlait déjà en mettant ces temps de verbe au passé! "Natasha étAIT...". Psychologiquement, MT savait qu'elle était déjà morte sinon il aurait parlé au présent: " Natasha EST..." Dans la même entrevue, MT dit qu'il a retrouvé la voiture de NC vendredi au même endroit où elle l'avait stationnée jeudi. Comment MT pouvait-il savoir où était stationnée la voiture de NC jeudi soir???? (à moins d'y avoir été)
7-MT dit s'être d'abord rendu à Piedmont vendredi pour voir si NC y était. Pourquoi allez si loin en premier quand il pouvait d'abord s'arrêter à la Place Laval pour voir si elle était à son travail.
Lolo, c'est des bon questions, je pense aussi que cest un crime passionel mais sa inclus pas necessairement MT.
(my french isnt great even tho i am in quebec)
I am thinking stalker. Be it a work place or someone nearby who saw her go to work each day or followed her from home. These deluded nuts think that the object of their obsession returns it so it makes it just as much a crime of passion in terms of how it looks.
I don't get the feeling MT fits. many go to parties without their partner on some nights..overtime or someone just not into the people at a particular one or they just have a different schedule. Something could have happened at the party tho with another man who decided to go after her?
imo
lune3
10-11-2009, 10:39 PM
First, thanks a lot Lune3 for your translation of my thoughts.
For no 3: MT said that he was not supposed to see NC on thursday night even if he was home alone watching hockey game. It meens she was supposed to sleep at Piedmont that night. It seems they spend a LOT OF TIME separatly (it's why I'm thinking the relationship is not going so well and that MT may be desperated).
I would like to add that MT never told that his relationship with NC was not going very well. And it means a lot for me.
Others very strange coincidences are that everythings found by the police are on the road between highway 19 and Piedmont (north side) or near the family neighbourhood (ex.: the body).
What is very interesting in a psychological aspect is that the murder is an excessive action. MT seems very excessive in his interviews, researches, annoucements of NC's death before autorities, his letter on facebook. I would like to have a psychologist point of you on that?
You're welcome Lolo.
For #3...I didn't know that about Thursday night. Did you hear MT say that in an interview, or did someone else say that? Strange that NC would go all the way to Piedmont since the next day she planned to visit her mother. It would be easier to stay in the Old Montreal apartment, so why wasn't that planned?
I'm thinking now, IF MT was involved, do you think he would call the police on Friday? Why not just not call, until NC's mom raised the flag that NC did not show up? On the other hand, maybe that's what happened? She called him first?
If it's known by reliable people that their relationship was not going well, it does seem strange that he did not say that, especially since he was so active in the media after she became missing.
Was more found than NC's work ID card on the road? Still, I am puzzled by the fact that at least her ID was found on the road going north. Why go to Pointe aux Trembles and then go north again since the person was already in the area there earlier? It's like the person backtracked after he took NC to PAT. And I don't understand why that place.
I agree there was excessiveness on the part of MT. But some people, when they are in a panic, might act that way...to make themselves feel better by searching, talking, writing a lot...sort of staying active with purpose instead of alone and quiet. Still, what nags at me is that he assumed so quickly that she was kidnapped, and then dead, before authorities informed him for sure.
Lanceman...I also tend to lean towards Occam's Razor situations. At the least I believe NC knew the killer. This wasn't some drug thing or weird conspiracy IMO.
lanceman
10-12-2009, 04:22 AM
Someone has posted a video ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePW9XSdYBQk
Funeral scheduled for Saturday Oct 17.
Investigation continues.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5j1PlkjhrUMfhGtj6xQ2AB4UGIIaw
I guess the autopsy results and any further developments in the case are being kept secret. Why do I have a feeling another murder will go unsolved? Ugh!
grant
10-13-2009, 09:59 AM
Hi,
Like I said in a post before, I'm a friend of Michel. I just want to rectify some facts that I see in some of the posts (sorry if my english is not perfect) :
- They we're not sharing the appartment in Old Montreal. He was leaving there alone.
- They we're not supposed to see each other that night. He was watching the hockey game and I guess he was assuming they would call each other in the evening to wish each other a good night just like they did the others nights before when they didn't see each other.
- For sure he was in love with Natasha, but you seem to think he was
kind of paranoiak about her, which it's not the case. He was just a normal guy in love with a girl.
- The fact that she was going to a party alone does'nt mean anything. He was doing some stuff alone too and he was not upset about that.
- Again, about the fact he posted her death on facebook is maybe difficult to understand, but who can be completely rational when something that bad happen ? He just wanted to left people know his feeling. The fact is, everyone of his friend on facebook knew it was her before he annouced it because that night, we we're suppose to meet each other at a specific place to continue the searching but the ''rendez-vous'' was cancelled, suggesting that they have already found the body. When he received the confirmation it was her, I guess you can imagine how he was feeling.
Hi,
Like I said in a post before, I'm a friend of Michel. I just want to rectify some facts that I see in some of the posts (sorry if my english is not perfect) :
- They we're not sharing the appartment in Old Montreal. He was leaving there alone.
- They we're not supposed to see each other that night. He was watching the hockey game and I guess he was assuming they would call each other in the evening to wish each other a good night just like they did the others nights before when they didn't see each other.
- For sure he was in love with Natasha, but you seem to think he was
kind of paranoiak about her, which it's not the case. He was just a normal guy in love with a girl.
- The fact that she was going to a party alone does'nt mean anything. He was doing some stuff alone too and he was not upset about that.
- Again, about the fact he posted her death on facebook is maybe difficult to understand, but who can be completely rational when something that bad happen ? He just wanted to left people know his feeling. The fact is, everyone of his friend on facebook knew it was her before he annouced it because that night, we we're suppose to meet each other at a specific place to continue the searching but the ''rendez-vous'' was cancelled, suggesting that they have already found the body. When he received the confirmation it was her, I guess you can imagine how he was feeling.
Hi grant,
I guess some of the media got it wrong then. I remember reading that they shared both places. The one in old Montreal and the one in Piedmont.
Were they together or separated? Have the police requestioned him? Does he still want to go ahead with the polygraph?
TIA
Claude Poirier just repeated this morning (around 9:10 AM) on his show on LCN that a good friend of NC told him last week that NC was afraid of someone. According to the source, NC did not mention it to her mom because she did not want to stress her.
My conclusion is that the mother know the person she was afraid of.
Also if you were a girl and you were afraid of someone, would it be normal to live with your boyfriend and sleep at his place? And if you have a meeting a day after with your mom in MTL would it be easier to stay in the Old Montreal apartment? Unless you are afraid of your boyfriend?
d5cents
10-13-2009, 10:37 PM
"As he milled about a police command post Michel Trottier, the boyfriend, repeatedly voiced his theory: "I have no doubt it's a kidnapping. Nothing else comes to my mind," he said. "I don't know why, I don't know who, but I think it's somebody that knew her." Trottier says he and Cournoyer have parted ways several times during their four-year relationship. But he says they're still close, and talk regularly."
The above was taken from a Canadian Press article October 5th. What is tells me is that they were friends, not lovers (at least not at the time of her dissapearance) or am I missing something? I also find it strange that he opted to drive all the way to Piedmont rather than check her workplace first, which would seem the logical step since it was practically on the way up north. More questions than answers I guess.
lanceman
10-14-2009, 01:12 AM
Here's a picture looking outside from the tow truck yard,
into the Place Laval Parking lot, after dark.
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/lanceman2010/parking101.jpg
There's not too much lighting, in that area, but since the tow
truck operation seems 24/7, they seem to know what vehicles
park there on a regular basis, and which ones are unique or out
of the ordinary, which are illegitimate, in which case they are towed
away, into this particular space, and charged $100.
As for the investigation, if the police pursued the clues and evidence
as fast as they adopted combat attire and army pants and caps during
their labor strike for their city contract (salary increases, benefits,
pension, work conditions, etc.) this particular case would be
concluded in a matter of days and the suspect behind bars,
with the key thrown away.
In reality, the union cops are dragging their feet, just out of their
depth in terms of forensic skills, police technique, investigative
talent, cerebral potentials and shallow in experience that...the public
feels there's just no hope of finding the one to blame than offering
a box of donuts to some greaseball locked up in Parthenais penitentiary
or some place like that, hoping that there's a stool pigeon somewhere
who will start pointing fingers ... the usual technique for lazy assed
police, which is the "confidential informant".
The Place Laval owners are very much guilty here, for endangering
the people working in those places after dark without security. In
fact, 2 weeks after the murder, nothing has changed, and no
added security is the case either.
lanceman
10-14-2009, 02:23 AM
probably felt guilt after killing her and wanted her found.
Interesting theory. Guilty individuals desire to expose themselves
by giving clues to be caught ? There are very few clues here ....
a serial killer, like they want to show their "handiwork")
This makes sense.
Thinking a stalker who finally caught her when i remember the suspicious car she was worried about it.
A stalker ? Trottier did bring up that ... city workers presumably
doing construction work, suggested (as per the interview)
that certain individuals masterbate in their cars in the parking lot.
With such an outrageous statement, I would most certainly
have the police track down WHO said that, and WHICH individuals
(car color, car model, times, dates) were behaving in such a manner.
In fact, with the size of a parking lot like that, unless individuals have
binoculars and unless the people working in the building walk naked from
the building to their cars there's nothing to see, quite probably.
There are as many men as there are women workers there, so
this is really outlandish. Maybe the construction workers making
those allegations should be investigated...
lanceman
10-14-2009, 04:24 AM
I knew that had to be the area where NC parked. It is the furthest away from the building and I am sure very dark as hell at night. When I worked there I used to park a few rows off to the right. Not a smart layout to not have a guard patrolling and/or cameras.
New theory .... based on Claude Poirer's program.
At 8 pm, when NC walked out of her job, some individuals
were stealing an expensive automobile in the car parking
lot, or preparing to do so.
She spotted the crminals, and confronted the thieves,
and suggested they would be busted for car theft.
Before she could make a call to 911, to report the theft,
they grabbed it, and anyone with a criminal record having
done jail time, they didn't want to go back in the slammer.
So, they kidnapped the witness, crossed the Laurentides Bridge
going to Papineau, did a hard left on Henri Bourassa, following
that road to the very end, and "took out" the witness to
the car theft, in a well-known spot where thieves and the underworld
dump stolen vehicles for chop shops, and so on. So, they would
already have known the place.
The Laval Pl is 2nd for car theft in Laval to Carrefour Laval,
so everything makes sense. It all adds up.
It looks like the cops should be running background checks
on people recently paroled or released from jail, for convictions
for car thefts and chop shop / parts resales.
This would also explain why no ATM robbery or sexual assault
occurred. It consisted in eliminating a witness to a purely random
car heist. Not for money or sex or drugs. Jail time hardens criminals
to murder.
This means unless the culprits are arrested, it could happen again
and happen to anyone, and in particular to anyone working in places
where a car theft is taking place and they don't want witnesses. Especially
with those having phone-cameras these days.
lanceman
10-14-2009, 04:42 AM
Concerning the hypothesis of a random murder for witnessing a gang of car thieves
carrying out a car theft, and eliminating the witness ...
In Québec, in 2006, more than 38,800 vehicles were stolen, which
is 1 vehicle every 14 minutes. In order to compensate the owners
of stolen vehicles, insurers paid out more than approximately $300
million in 2006.
Vehicle theft occurs throughout Canada where more than 160,000
vehicles were stolen in 2006. Although the theft of motorized
vehicles affects the entire country, the problem and its
socioeconomic consequences vary from one province to the next.
These figures confirm Québec's reputation as the hub for
automobile theft in Canada and even North America. The networks of
thieves operating in Québec are very well structured and
efficient.
Robert Jeremy Osborne, B.C.'s most prolific and dangerous car
thief, could be back on the streets in less than two months.
"I can't think of a more dangerous car thief," says Cpl. Tim
Shields, a member of the Integrated Municipal Provincial Auto
Crime Taskforce (IMPACT). "He has stolen well over 1,000 vehicles
in the past 10 years. We know that on many days, he would steal
five to seven cars a day -- and he's been doing that for most of
his adult life."
Osborne, 29, became world infamous after footage of his June 2004
bait-car theft was broadcast in the U.S., Britain, Australia and
Japan.
For stealing the bait vehicle, dangerous driving and being in
possession of break-andenter tools, Osborne -- a chronic repeat
offender and drug addict -- was dealt a four-year jail term. On
Dec. 1, less than 18 months after being taken into custody, he
will be eligible for day parole.
Osborne, who is currently in Matsqui federal prison in Mission,
has faced 123 charges since he turned 18.
A worker at the Vancouver Provincial Court registry was stunned
when he pulled Osborne's record. "My goodness, he's got a lot of
files. This guy's hopeless," the worker commented.
Osborne has been in detention since his arrest in July 2004.
Because it took a year before his trial and sentencing was
complete, when he was given his four-year sentence, the single
year in custody was counted as two years. Dennis Finlay, spokesman
for the Correctional Service of Canada, says Osborne is eligible
for full parole on Jan. 30, 2006. If he is not paroled, he will be
released next October.
Finlay says the Correctional Service of Canada must release
prisoners when they have served two-thirds of their sentence,
unless they're ruled a danger to society. Particularly troubling
for Shields is word that Osborne has refused drug treatment while
in jail.
"It's scary that a guy who poses a massive threat to public safety
could be out so soon. It's well documented how dangerous this guy
is, and we would be doing a great disservice to the community if
he is released early," Shields says.
What happens to the stolen vehicle?
A vehicle stolen by a professional network will be disposed of in
one of three ways: it will be dismantled for parts, exported or
cloned/made over.
Parts
Vehicles are dismantled to supply the illegal recycled-parts
market. The stolen vehicle is taken to an illicit workshop or
"chop shop" where it is wholly or partially stripped. The parts
are then sold on the illegal recycled-parts market in Québec as
well as abroad.
This market operates like any other, that is, on the basis of
supply and demand. Generally speaking, the vehicles that are the
most likely targets for theft for their parts are the best-selling
models because demand for recycled parts for such vehicles
increases with their popularity.
Export
In certain parts of the world, the demand for stolen
top-of-the-line vehicles from North America continues to grow
Makeovers and cloning
A car theft ring procures a severely damaged vehicle (SDV) on the
legal market, and then steals a vehicle with similar
characteristics. The thieves then transfer the vehicle
identification number (VIN) of the SDV to the stolen vehicle,
therefore giving it the identity of the damaged vehicle. This
operation is called "making over" a stolen vehicle.
How is a vehicle stolen?
As a general rule, the theft of a vehicle by an organized network
is conducted in the following manner :
1. The thief spots a vehicle, frequently in a parking lot
(shopping centre, airport, etc.). In most cases, the thief will
have received an order from a network for a particular model;
2. He/she steals the vehicle. For an experienced thief, the actual
theft will take between 30 seconds and three minutes, depending
on whether or not the vehicle is equipped with a protection system
Anything is possible but I'm not buying the car theft theory unless the car they were going to steal was parked right beside Natasha's and she caught them in the act. Furthermore, I don't think they would murder someone, drive miles away to dump her body. They would've done the deed right there. I don't recall LE mentioning anything about a stolen car or anyone in the building reporting someone trying to break into their vehicle. There would've been evidence. Would they have gone back to get the vehicle after they murdered her? Isn't that what they wanted? The car.
Per your link, it takes 30 seconds to 3 minutes. An experienced car thief would've been out of there in a flash.
I still believe it's someone she knew.
"As he milled about a police command post Michel Trottier, the boyfriend, repeatedly voiced his theory: "I have no doubt it's a kidnapping. Nothing else comes to my mind," he said. "I don't know why, I don't know who, but I think it's somebody that knew her." Trottier says he and Cournoyer have parted ways several times during their four-year relationship. But he says they're still close, and talk regularly."
The above was taken from a Canadian Press article October 5th. What is tells me is that they were friends, not lovers (at least not at the time of her dissapearance) or am I missing something? I also find it strange that he opted to drive all the way to Piedmont rather than check her workplace first, which would seem the logical step since it was practically on the way up north. More questions than answers I guess.
Good catch.
>> Je crois qu'on a affaire à un crime passionnel:
I think we should use "Occam's Razor " as the process to solve
this one. And also, QUI BUONO ?
Who benefits ?
Who is the most obvious killer here ?
Let's stop looking for a needle in the haystack, and open our
eyes to what is the most obvious, and find the evidence.
The police simply doesn't have the investigative talent here,
too often, with the number of missing people over the past 10 years.
They too often rely on stool pigeons or confidential informatants,
to lock up people.
They need to double their efforts and mental skills on this one,
even if it means calling in experts from the USA.
Right. The KISS factor. Keep it simple and most often the case is solved.
Lover
Ex Lover
Family member
Co worker/friend
Stranger
Items found not linked to Natasha Cournoyer
The items found last week by passersby and police in the Natasha Cournoyer case did not belong to the murdered Piedmont woman.
The only thing that did belong to her was an i.d. card found by the side of a highway.
Among the objects found in a garbage bin behind a shopping mall on Sherbrooke Street in the east end of the city : a shirt, a shoe, a cell phone, even a purse.
But tests concluded they did not belong to the Corrections Canada employee.
Cournoyer was found dead a week ago underneath a Hydro tower near a boat launch in Pointe-aux- Trembles. She was reported missing since October 1.
Police still have no suspects in the murder.
http://www.cjad.com/news/565/1005087
hmmmm it looks like Michel removed his facebook page. :shrug:
If you click on the photo with the 2 doves, that was Michel's page but now it says not found.
http://www.facebook.com/photo_comments.php?subj=145616341777
Sorry, I need someone to translate me!
Jetez un coup d'oeil ce matin à la chronique de nécrologie du Journal de Montréal ou de La Presse: la famille de NC publie un message où
elle déplore le sort qu'a connu la femme de 37 ans qui s'est fait brutalement enlevée la vie en soulignant qu'elle ne méritait pas la cruauté dont elle a été victime.
Quand vient le temps d'énoncer les personnes que NC laisse dans le deuil, le nom de MT n'apparaît pas dans le message!!!
BevAnn
10-14-2009, 11:51 AM
yeah n/t - the pic is even gone now...just his name is left. and the comment he made.
I really didn't think he was involved...but he has started to set off my hinky meter....wish LE would arrest whoever did this soon!!
RIP Natasha
What strikes me since MT had his TV interview with CP (http://videos.lcn.canoe.ca/video/43606437001/disparition-son-conjoint-se-confie-a-claude-poirier), is that at about 5 minutes after the beginning of the interview, MT starts describing NC in the past. I don't understand why he's talking about the "girl of his life" in the past. Shouldn't he instead talk positively and believe that she's alive?
Natasha was a woman well connected to her emotions but controlled them very well. She was a woman that used to talk a lot. We've talked many times about her father's death. She was also very close to her cousin Pierre...
It's nothing that would make someone guilty, but I'm wondering if this kind of talk is odd according to the situation he's facing at that time.
Fred
lune3
10-14-2009, 01:30 PM
Sorry, I need someone to translate me!
Jetez un coup d'oeil ce matin à la chronique de nécrologie du Journal de Montréal ou de La Presse: la famille de NC publie un message où
elle déplore le sort qu'a connu la femme de 37 ans qui s'est fait brutalement enlevée la vie en soulignant qu'elle ne méritait pas la cruauté dont elle a été victime.
Quand vient le temps d'énoncer les personnes que NC laisse dans le deuil, le nom de MT n'apparaît pas dans le message!!!
Basically " when I looked at the obituaries in one of the French newspapers, it showed that the family left a message that deplored the brutality that took the life of NC and that NC didn't deserve this.
It says that the obituary does not mention the name MT among the people who are mourning NC.
lune3
10-14-2009, 01:35 PM
yeah n/t - the pic is even gone now...just his name is left. and the comment he made.
I really didn't think he was involved...but he has started to set off my hinky meter....wish LE would arrest whoever did this soon!!
RIP Natasha
I've been defending MT on many points, not suspecting that he had anything to do with this, always trying to find a reasonable explanation for his words and actions .......but......I'm beginning not to be so sure anymore.
Sorry, I need someone to translate me!
Jetez un coup d'oeil ce matin à la chronique de nécrologie du Journal de Montréal ou de La Presse: la famille de NC publie un message où
elle déplore le sort qu'a connu la femme de 37 ans qui s'est fait brutalement enlevée la vie en soulignant qu'elle ne méritait pas la cruauté dont elle a été victime.
Quand vient le temps d'énoncer les personnes que NC laisse dans le deuil, le nom de MT n'apparaît pas dans le message!!!
Interesting!
What strikes me since MT had his TV interview with CP (http://videos.lcn.canoe.ca/video/43606437001/disparition-son-conjoint-se-confie-a-claude-poirier), is that at about 5 minutes after the beginning of the interview, MT starts describing NC in the past. I don't understand why he's talking about the "girl of his life" in the past. Shouldn't he instead talk positively and believe that she's alive?
It's nothing that would make someone guilty, but I'm wondering if this kind of talk is odd according to the situation he's facing at that time.
Fred
Hi Fred and welcome.
I noticed comments posted in some of the news articles regarding MT using past tense. Others have noticed as well.
lune3
10-14-2009, 01:54 PM
I'm starting to wonder about something that's been puzzling me regarding the fact that NC's ID card was found on Route 19 on the side going north.
That's the main road leading to Piedmont. MT said he went to Piedmont on the Friday morning. Not that it means he threw it out...but what if?
I just don't get going from Laval through a built up area to Pointe aux Trembles to dispose of a body there, and then backtracking to Laval area and going north.
Just a thought.
yeah n/t - the pic is even gone now...just his name is left. and the comment he made.
I really didn't think he was involved...but he has started to set off my hinky meter....wish LE would arrest whoever did this soon!!
RIP Natasha
I hope they get whoever did this soon too!
BTW....did you notice the other guy who posted on Natasha's facebook page? Interesting. He claims to be a very good friend of hers. He sounded so heartbroken.
lanceman
10-14-2009, 03:40 PM
If it's a car robbery, there might have been some broken glass
on the ground, from a busted out window, that would have been
required to open the car door. They wouldn't have used the CAA's
method of an inflated rubber "pocket" to pry open the door, which
the CAA uses to push a steel coathanger in between so the switch
can be pulled up. The gang would have used a brick, large rock, object
or some escavation tool like that.
I haven't seen in the news any reports of broken glass in that area, but then again...
police are holding their cards close to their chests, so to speak.
Here's a picture of the surveillance booth, of the towing truck
operation right beside where the incident occurred.
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/lanceman2010/junkyard0.jpg
The surveillance guy has a huge map of Quebec on the wall. Why ?
Is he planning on driving somewhere ? He only has to know the path from the yard to the parking lot,
right in front, 10 meters away.
If it's a car robbery, there might have been some broken glass
on the ground, from a busted out window, that would have been
required to open the car door. They wouldn't have used the CAA's
method of an inflated rubber "pocket" to pry open the door, which
the CAA uses to push a steel coathanger in between so the switch
can be pulled up. The gang would have used a brick, large rock, object
or some escavation tool like that.
I haven't seen in the news any reports of broken glass in that area, but then again...
police are holding their cards close to their chests, so to speak.
Here's a picture of the surveillance booth, of the towing truck
operation right beside where the incident occurred.
http://i950.photobucket.com/albums/ad346/lanceman2010/junkyard0.jpg
The surveillance guy has a huge map of Quebec on the wall. Why ?
Is he planning on driving somewhere ? He only has to know the path from the yard to the parking lot,
right in front, 10 meters away.
Well, at least it's a map. I've seen some repulsive calendars in a few of these booths. :blushing:
Maybe he's had people ask for directions in the past and has a map available just in case.
lune3
10-14-2009, 04:15 PM
I don't know about a car theft theory, but who knows?
It seems to me that if this surveillance guy was into car theft, I'd think he, and an accomplice, would have stood guard to make sure nobody else was around or leaving that office. It was only 8pm. Also, dealing with stealing a car AND kidnapping a woman in a short amount of time would be difficult. At the least there would have needed to be another guy and another vehicle to get away in. The surveillance person wouldn't be able to leave his post without suspicion being aroused. Car theft and murder are two different things too.
As for the map...maybe he liked maps for whatever reason. Maybe his home town was Chicoutimi or some place and he liked to have a map on his wall showing a home town, or good up-north fishing spots..who knows?
I'm leaning to a stalker or creep who NC was familiar with, and I'm bothered by the friend who called Claude Poirier about the fact that NC was fearing for her life.
There has been no new news...I sure hope LE finds this guy.
Just to let you know that Claude Poirier just said (17h30 on LCN) that MT had past the polygraph and that he did not failed!
d5cents
10-14-2009, 07:02 PM
http://www.ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/faitsdivers/12189-test-polygraphe-michel-trottier-meurtre-natasha-cournoyer
Here is the link to the story (in french). Looks like it was definitely not MT. Hopefully police have some leads.....
lune3
10-14-2009, 07:21 PM
http://www.ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/faitsdivers/12189-test-polygraphe-michel-trottier-meurtre-natasha-cournoyer
Here is the link to the story (in french). Looks like it was definitely not MT. Hopefully police have some leads.....
Thank you d5cents and lolo. It's good to hear that MT passed the test, and he can be more credibly ruled out.
As far as leads are concerned, I noticed this article in the same Rue Frontenac site.
It seems LE are asking women to come forward if anyone has been approached by someone, and there seems to be some interest about an such an individual and his car near a bicycle path that runs in front of Place Laval? Police do not want to offer the person's identity or any further info so as not to contaminate future witnesses.
http://www.ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/faitsdivers/12186-enquete-meurtre-natasha-cournoyer-femmes-abordees
Interesting, I hope this comes to something solid.
Thanks for the link.
This other article says police is appealing to women to come forward if they were approached by a suspicious individual in a car days before Natasha's abduction and subsequent murder. They have received over 300 leads some were from women who claim to have been approached by this individual.
They're also appealing to anyone who noticed a suspicious individual around the bicycle path which is right behind the building where Natasha worked 1, Place Laval.
Call Info Crime at (514) 393-1133.
http://www.ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/faitsdivers/12186-enquete-meurtre-natasha-cournoyer-femmes-abordees
I don't understand why they won't give the description of the car. That really bothers me. They're saying they don't want to jeapordize the investigation but what about the safety of the women in Laval and Montreal. Ugh!:angry:
Thank you d5cents and lolo. It's good to hear that MT passed the test, and he can be more credibly ruled out.
As far as leads are concerned, I noticed this article in the same Rue Frontenac site.
It seems LE are asking women to come forward if anyone has been approached by someone, and there seems to be some interest about an such an individual and his car near a bicycle path that runs in front of Place Laval? Police do not want to offer the person's identity or any further info so as not to contaminate future witnesses.
http://www.ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/faitsdivers/12186-enquete-meurtre-natasha-cournoyer-femmes-abordees
Interesting, I hope this comes to something solid.
We posted at the same time. :wink:
Thank you d5cents and lolo. It's good to hear that MT passed the test, and he can be more credibly ruled out.
As far as leads are concerned, I noticed this article in the same Rue Frontenac site.
It seems LE are asking women to come forward if anyone has been approached by someone, and there seems to be some interest about an such an individual and his car near a bicycle path that runs in front of Place Laval? Police do not want to offer the person's identity or any further info so as not to contaminate future witnesses.
http://www.ruefrontenac.com/nouvelles-generales/faitsdivers/12186-enquete-meurtre-natasha-cournoyer-femmes-abordees
Interesting, I hope this comes to something solid.
The bicycle path is behind the building.
lune3
10-14-2009, 07:41 PM
The bicycle path is behind the building.
Oops, sorry...you're right....behind the building....typing too fast.
Oops, sorry...you're right....behind the building....typing too fast.
No problem. Here's another article. This one says police are looking for witnesses. It also states that police thought it may have been someone she knew at first but they're now leaning towards a stranger.
What's interesting is they haven't released the autopsy results yet. This article reiterates what was already said regarding Natasha being found clothed and police believe she wasn't raped but yet they won't confirm anything.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/justice-et-faits-divers/200910/14/01-911327-natasha-cournoyer-la-police-recherche-des-temoins.php
lune3
10-14-2009, 08:13 PM
No problem. Here's another article. This one says police are looking for witnesses. It also states that police thought it may have been someone she knew at first but they're now leaning towards a stranger.
What's interesting is they haven't released the autopsy results yet. This article reiterates what was already said regarding Natasha being found clothed and police believe she wasn't raped but yet they won't confirm anything.
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/justice-et-faits-divers/200910/14/01-911327-natasha-cournoyer-la-police-recherche-des-temoins.php
I wonder about a possible rape though, whether her clothing would necessarily be removed.
The same article states that the Ministry of Transport has supplied actual license plate registration info of that precise spot where her ID was recovered. So there WAS a camera in that particular location....which is encouraging, though there must have been thousands of cars go by there between Thursday night and Friday daytime.
I wonder about a possible rape though, whether her clothing would necessarily be removed.
The same article states that the Ministry of Transport has supplied actual license plate registration info of that precise spot where her ID was recovered. So there WAS a camera in that particular location....which is encouraging, though there must have been thousands of cars go by there between Thursday night and Friday daytime.
I can't find the link right now but when Jessica Neilson's body was found she was clothed and only parts of her body were exposed. I don't think they ever confirmed whether or not she was raped. If anyone remembers otherwise, please correct me.
I'm really concerned there may be a serial rapist/murderer on the loose.
marieanne
10-14-2009, 10:41 PM
Hi everyone:)....I just wanted to put in my 2 cents about all this...I hope you dont mind...
this is one of those cases that hit really close to home, so close in fact that I live off highway 19 where they found NT's ID, I actually passed the the police and the k9 unit on my way home that day...very sad when you know what they're looking for:(....I also work off St Martin......that night I was also headed home at 8:15, and I cant help but think that maybe some how, some way if only i payed more attention to the cars around me or something....I'm so frustrated!!...and a little nervous too that someone is out there right now...perhaps even near my house....getting away with murder....trust me that I've been looking twice before getting in to my car!
but here's another unsettling thing I'd like to get off my chest.....I moved into my house in june 08,.....the second night here, I was outside having a smoke at around maybe 1 or 2 in the morning...I heard the most gut wrenching scream (womans voice) come from about 2 streets away.... I obviously freaked out and got in my car to go look for what was going on....I drove around, up and down streets for an hour...nothing!!! (our streets have maybe 10-12 houses on either side and all our avenues lead to the water front)...when I got back home, I wasnt sure what to do, but my fiance convinced me not to call the police....i'll never forget that night...and these last few days I've been thinking about it more now that this happened to NT and that LE are saying that it's most probable that the ID was tossed after the attack on the way back....
and here's another one...there was the girl that went missing from the bus stop in Terrebonne, north of Laval (5 min from here) a few years back....julie suprenent...they never caught that person either....I'm really starting to get the feeling that maybe there is a connection..
I dont mean to through all my speculations out there, but i really wanted to share my thoughts and get some feed back...
Thanks, M:)
Hi everyone:)....I just wanted to put in my 2 cents about all this...I hope you dont mind...
this is one of those cases that hit really close to home, so close in fact that I live off highway 19 where they found NT's ID, I actually passed the the police and the k9 unit on my way home that day...very sad when you know what they're looking for:(....I also work off St Martin......that night I was also headed home at 8:15, and I cant help but think that maybe some how, some way if only i payed more attention to the cars around me or something....I'm so frustrated!!...and a little nervous too that someone is out there right now...perhaps even near my house....getting away with murder....trust me that I've been looking twice before getting in to my car!
but here's another unsettling thing I'd like to get off my chest.....I moved into my house in june 08,.....the second night here, I was outside having a smoke at around maybe 1 or 2 in the morning...I heard the most gut wrenching scream (womans voice) come from about 2 streets away.... I obviously freaked out and got in my car to go look for what was going on....I drove around, up and down streets for an hour...nothing!!! (our streets have maybe 10-12 houses on either side and all our avenues lead to the water front)...when I got back home, I wasnt sure what to do, but my fiance convinced me not to call the police....i'll never forget that night...and these last few days I've been thinking about it more now that this happened to NT and that LE are saying that it's most probable that the ID was tossed after the attack on the way back....
and here's another one...there was the girl that went missing from the bus stop in Terrebonne, north of Laval (5 min from here) a few years back....julie suprenent...they never caught that person either....I'm really starting to get the feeling that maybe there is a connection..
I dont mean to through all my speculations out there, but i really wanted to share my thoughts and get some feed back...
Thanks, M:)
Hi Marieanne,
Glad you joined. I'm just as paranoid and afraid as you are. I don't live in Laval but I live close to where her body was found. I went to get groceries tonight and I checked around before getting into my car. It's crazy. I never felt this way before.
I hope they get whoever did this real soon. I also hope if any women were approached/stalked/harrassed by a stranger that they come forward. It may lead to getting this monster.
Hopefully with the 300 leads they'll get a break in the case real soon. I wish they would release the description of the car.
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