Susan Atkins, 61, died of brain cancer

[withay]

Susan Atkins, who stabbed Sharon Tate and her unborn son to death, has requsted "compassionate release", again.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/05/california.manson.family.hearing/index.html

I am usually a pretty compassionate person but, IMHO, this is one person who should spend every second of the rest of her life behind bars. She showed not one iota of compassion for Sharon Tate and her child's life. Atkins admitted that Sharon begged for the life of her child and that she told her that she had no mercy for her before she stabbed her to death.
What I don't understand is why Vincent Bugliosi (the prosecuter) is supporting her request "because she is no longer a danger to anyone".
Personally, I think this is God letting her see that, while her soul may be saved by Grace, she still has to pay something for what she did. Her penance, if you will.

[Anakerie]

I agree too. She should get just as much "compassion" as she gave Sharon Tate and her unborn son.

[YoYo]

According to another article I just read in early 2008 Susan Atkins was given 6 months to live and denied parole in July 2008. Early 2008 to now is certainly more than 6 months.

MO - leave her where she is - she could live another year.

[withay]

According to another article I just read in early 2008 Susan Atkins was given 6 months to live and denied parole in July 2008. Early 2008 to now is certainly more than 6 months.

MO - leave her where she is - she could live another year.

Good point! Her health has obviously declined further since then. I have read she is almost completely paralyzed. The only question I really have is, who is paying for her medical care? If she is in jail, obviously the citizens of California. If they let her out, would she still end up being on MediCal?

[rambo55]

I can't believe anyone would even consider letting her out - regardless of her problems. She did unspeakable things to innocent people in their private home. I don't care what she is going through, I have ZERO sympathy for her and hope she stays there for many years to come laying there hoping for compassion that never shows up, MAYBE, just maybe then she might begin to understand what her victims went through. Maybe through her suffering, she might finally learn what a horrible act she commited.

Justice might have finally found her.

[LisaM22]

more about the prosecutors support

http://www.rickross.com/reference/manson/manson50.html

"He is backing her bid for release "on compassionate grounds" as Atkins has brain cancer and now suffers paralysis in 85 per cent of her body. "

[emdragon]

I would like to believe that as a society we have more compassion than Manson's followers showed their victims.

Susan Atkins is the least deserving of those family members, but what do we gain by keeping her in prison to die? She is without question suffering longer than her victims and she has been punished- the other reason for prison is to protect society- She is no longer a threat.

As a Christian I say let her go home to die.

[LisaM22]

I agree, I think we should be compassionate in this case, she has done 4 decades and is on her deathbed, she is 85% paralyzed, seems inhuman not to grant her this request if for no one else, her family, I would say she has paid her debt, she is dying, she is imprisoned in her own body at this point anyways

[withay]

I agree, I think we should be compassionate in this case, she has done 4 decades and is on her deathbed, she is 85% paralyzed, seems inhuman not to grant her this request if for no one else, her family, I would say she has paid her debt, she is dying, she is imprisoned in her own body at this point anyways

As I said before, I am usually a very compassionate person and have really thought long and hard about this. I just think this is a journey that she needs to complete behind bars. Our society has been compassionate in allowing her and her group 40 years of life that the jury originally voted to take from them. There are some crimes that are so horrific that the entire price should be paid. IMHO, this is one of them.

[NatalieB]

IMO, she should have been executed long ago, so I have no compassion for her whatsoever. She deserved to die 30 years ago just like each of the victims.

Vincent Bugliosi has no compassion for her either. He's just not fighting her release because if she's released, the state would no longer be responsible for her medical costs (which are enormous). He has stated that he does NOT favor her release, but for the above reason, he would not fight it. That's certainly not him believing that she's paid her due.

She never paid her due.

The woman said she had an orgasm as she was bludgeoning Sharon Tate to death. As Sharon begged for her own life and that of her baby's, Susan Akins said something to the effect of, ***** (this will be blocked out, but it begins with the letter B), I don't care about you and you'd better get ready to die.

Abigail Folger said something to the effect of, you got me, I'm already dead, please stop stabbing me.

Sorry, no mercy for any of them from me.

[NatalieB]

Good point! Her health has obviously declined further since then. I have read she is almost completely paralyzed. The only question I really have is, who is paying for her medical care? If she is in jail, obviously the citizens of California. If they let her out, would she still end up being on MediCal?

She's married to an attorney. I'd imagine she's on his policy.

[LisaM22]

She's married to an attorney. I'd imagine she's on his policy.

good point and with his income she would not qualify for free care I would not think

[MoonFlwr]

What she did was utterly despicable, of course!

I am in two minds about her plea, but part of me DOES feel, 'what harm could it possibly do now, to show a little humanity'.

(I know, I know, she showed NONE for Sharon Tate and her unborn son. ..and she got to live instead of having the death penalty carried out).

Still, being cruel to someone who is dying, and is 85 % paralysed, for the sake of it, seems uncivilized and uncalled for....(if people think she should stay in prison so it will teach her a lesson - she has already learned that lesson...being in jail for 4 decades of her life).

It is not as if she is going to go and live it up on the outside...she is too unwell for that.

[Martek]

When I think "old woman, dying, 85% paralyzed", I think "compassionate release".

I lived and grew up near where and when all this occured.

When I remember:

Susan Atkins stabbed pregnant Sharon Tate 16 times, and drank Sharon's blood, and used Sharon's own blood to scrawl the word "Pig" on the door.

When I remember learning that Susan Atkins told Sharon Tate "Woman, I have no mercy for you"

When I remember that Susan Atkins testified in court that she stabbed Sharon Tate, because she was, "sick of listening to her, pleading and begging, begging and pleading".

When I remember the sheer barbarity of these crimes, the lack of COMPASSION these perps held for their victims. The cruelness with which they carried out these crimes.

When I remember those things, I cannot agree with any "compassionate release" for any of them.

That does not lower me to their level. That does not make me the animal they are. That does not make me cruel. That does not me me "no better than she is". (In my mind it is laugably absurd to equate being against their compassionate release as being "like" them or "no better than them" - completely ridiculous! To equate someone wanting them to serve their sentence for what they did, as being as cruel and barbaric as they were when they commited these crimes has to be some kind of joke - quit kidding me!).

Perhaps the passage of time since she was imprisoned have changed her. Perhaps she has "converted". If so, then she can continue serving others while in prison and be thankful she got to live at all after what she did. She isn't in prison for those things she does while in prison - she is in prison for the barbaric things she did to other human beings outside of prison. And who knows how she would be as a person if she was never caught. Maybe she'd have become a "better person". Or maybe not - maybe it is the trappings of life in a cell that have allowed her to reflect and change. Who knows? In my mind - how she behaves in prison is not part of my equation when I come to my own personal opinion of whether I support "compassionate release" for her.

Susan Atkins basically was "fluked" into not receiving the death penatly. She deserved "the chair", and should have visited it long ago. She was commuted to life. And she should serve every minute of that sentence. For some, "life" should mean "life". She is one of them.

JMO
Martek

[joolz]

Even if you take the emotional component out of this, there is no reason why Susan Atkins deserves more special treatment than anyone else in her situation gets.

Life Without Parole means exactly that. Anyone sentenced to it will, of course, die in prison. And just like out in the world, some will die peacefully and some will die terrible, prolonged deaths. Atkins happens to be one of the latter, but I don't see why that entitles her to any privileges that other LWOP's don't get. jmo

[Adalena935]

According to another article I just read in early 2008 Susan Atkins was given 6 months to live and denied parole in July 2008. Early 2008 to now is certainly more than 6 months.

MO - leave her where she is - she could live another year.

I noticed that. She was paralyzed, near death, with weeks to live this time last year and prior to that even. She's may be the longest-running case of brain cancer in human history to date. If they leave her in longer they may find the cure.

Something else that never changes; she's still the lying con artist. :thumbdown:

http://www.nowpublic.com/strange/susan-atkins-hospitalized-dying-brain-cancer-update

[momof6]

I'am very compassionate.......That is why I have compassion for the victims and the victims families who have had to relive what their daughter and grandchild went through.

I guess we all see compassion in a different way. That is why I hate seeing people tortured and brutalized....Even babies.

She has been trying to get parole for years.....even before she had cancer. This is her Karma.

[Adalena935]

Even if you take the emotional component out of this, there is no reason why Susan Atkins deserves more special treatment than anyone else in her situation gets.

Life Without Parole means exactly that. Anyone sentenced to it will, of course, die in prison. And just like out in the world, some will die peacefully and some will die terrible, prolonged deaths. Atkins happens to be one of the latter, but I don't see why that entitles her to any privileges that other LWOP's don't get. jmo

That was not her sentence. Click on the OP's link and it says she's had many parole hearings in the story Highlights (upper right).

[joolz]

That was not her sentence. Click on the OP's link and it says she's had many parole hearings in the story Highlights (upper right).


You are right, but her original sentence was the death penalty. She's lucky the DP was reversed here in CA long enough for her to escape it. Or not escape it, depending on how you view her current circumstances. jmo

[StarShine]

I would like to believe that as a society we have more compassion than Manson's followers showed their victims.

Susan Atkins is the least deserving of those family members, but what do we gain by keeping her in prison to die? She is without question suffering longer than her victims and she has been punished- the other reason for prison is to protect society- She is no longer a threat.

As a Christian I say let her go home to die.

ITA with you.

[YoYo]

Read this (please) and tell me what you think.

http://www.susanatkins.org/6-Myth.html

[NatalieB]

Nope! Health Insurance Co.'s do not cover people while in prison. The State must provide their care. That the LAW in Calif.

IMO

Of course this is law. I was referring to who would be responsible if she were released.

[NatalieB]

Even if you take the emotional component out of this, there is no reason why Susan Atkins deserves more special treatment than anyone else in her situation gets.

Life Without Parole means exactly that. Anyone sentenced to it will, of course, die in prison. And just like out in the world, some will die peacefully and some will die terrible, prolonged deaths. Atkins happens to be one of the latter, but I don't see why that entitles her to any privileges that other LWOP's don't get. jmo

When their sentences were commuted, it wasn't without parole. There was no such thing at that time or that is exactly what they'd have gotten. So, all the sentence were life with the possibility of parole. Because of that, till their own dying day, Sharon's mother, father, and her beautiful sister, Patty (and the other families too) had to attend those hearings for all those monsters to beg the parole board not to release them. Sharon has 1 living sister who still fights for that cause today.

IMO, that made each member of the victim's families, victimized again and again. How cruel is that?

BTW, I think when the death penalty was reinstated, everyone's sentence should have been converted back. All that clan should thank their lucky star that this isn't the way it played out for them.


Martek GREAT POST! I feel exactly the same way.

[NatalieB]

Read this (please) and tell me what you think.

http://www.susanatkins.org/6-Myth.html

It's too long for me to read right now, but I have never bought into the "Helter Skelter" bit.

[Lavinia]

I am of two minds on this. On one hand, people die in prison every single day without a compassionate release. The prison where I worked had all the HIV, TB, Hep.C and terminal patients of all kinds. We had an ER, a clinic, and infectious disease clinic, and infirmary and a hospice. I can't count how many inmates I've watched die. I don't see why her case is special to get to go home.

Quite frankly, as horrible and heinous as the Manson Family was, I have seen/heard of much worse. Their crimes were publicized because the victims were wealthy, famous and beautiful and THAT was certainly new in the US. Charles Manson is a dime a dozen in prison. Half the guys in SEG have those same crazy eyes and bullchit hustle. He's no more a mad dog than half the guys in SEG. (Which is to say he IS a mad dog, lol.) I wouldn't be scared to be in the same room alone with him because he is a coward. He gets his dysfunctional, drugged up girls do his dirty work for him. His bark is louder than his bite.

That being said, I find it is REALLY easy to sit on my computer and say "Hang 'em, high!" or something similar. For example, I feel like I could whip Casey A's butt from here to breakfast but it's quite easy to feel this way from here. When I was charge nurse I was kind of afraid at first when someone heinous got into medical trouble that I might have a hard time helping them. Not so. For me, at least, when I saw a human, (someone who started life as innocently as we all did and some circumstances that there but for the grace of God or fates or whatever you believe, go us) who couldn't breathe, or was bleeding to death, or was wracked with the pain of bone cancer, my bravado disappeared. I've worked on my inmate patients just as hard as civilian patients and that was damned hard because I was nothing but a good nurse. Sometimes my care for those inmates was the only care they had ever received in their entire lives.

I am NOT forgiving those inmates for their crimes or minimizing what they did in any way shape of form. I'm just saying it's a lot easier to hate them and wish them the very worse life has to offer when you are completely removed from them.

Again, I am of two minds on this because I also wouldn't parole 1/99 of the people the boards do parole. For whatever regrettable reason, the vast majority of these people are "broken".

I'll tell ya'll later of one of the best persons I know who is a convicted murderer. :biggrin:

(I still think I could slap Casey, lol.)

[NatalieB]

Where is your link to Vincent Bugliosi's statements??? I believe you are incorrect.

I'm in favor of compassion. I'm not the animal she was/is, and never will be. I don't intend to go to her level. If I do, I am no better than she is. Got it?

IMO

Try this for starters. I realize it's a political site and the site is pushing the fact that he's taking on Bush, but that's not why I am linking to the site at all.

It's a video of him speaking directly about Susan Atkins release and one can clearly see, he has no sympathy for her whatsoever.

Watch the 4th video titled:
VIDEO EXLUSIVE: Vincent Bugliosi Supports Compassionate Release Of Manson 'Family' Member Susan Atkins
http://www.hotpotatomash.com/vincent_bugliosi/

[R~O~S]

Read this (please) and tell me what you think.

http://www.susanatkins.org/6-Myth.html


Although this may bring some sense to a horrible crime, that as it was prosecuted made no sense with regard to motive. I don't see how the reasons for it change the inhumanity of it or in any way decrease the responsibility of those involved.

Susan had every opportunity to leave, she chose to stay and did commit the acts that put her where she is.

I see no reason to release her now unless it's to save the state the cost of her medical care. She should have met her maker decades ago. When she does, she'll have completed her sentence here on earth. JMHO

[NatalieB]

Maybe you'll like these better?

Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted Atkins, said he was not opposed to her release given her current condition, adding that she had paid "substantially, though not completely, for her horrendous crimes. Paying completely would mean imposing the death penalty."[23] Bugliosi also stated that he supported her release in order to save the state money. The cost for Atkins' medical care since she was hospitalized on March 18, 2008 has reportedly surpassed $1.15 million with additional cost of over $300,000 to guard her hospital room." [22] Bugliosi stated that he was challenging the notion that "just because Susan Atkins showed no mercy to her victims, we therefore are duty-bound to follow her inhumanity and show no mercy to her". [24]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Atkins

Here is what I found in the links from that page:
Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted Atkins and other members of the Manson Family, said he supported her release, if only to save the state money. Through Monday, the cost for Atkins' medical care since she was hospitalized March 18 totaled more than $1.15 million, and the costs for guarding her hospital room are more than $308,000, said California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation spokeswoman Terry Thornton.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/15/release.denied/index.html

[NatalieB]

snip

Quite frankly, as horrible and heinous as the Manson Family was, I have seen/heard of much worse. Their crimes were publicized because the victims were wealthy, famous and beautiful and THAT was certainly new in the US. Charles Manson is a dime a dozen in prison.

snip

Actually, I think this is only partially true. Sure, these killings received the publicity that they did because of the status of the individuals murdered, but it's much deeper than that, IMO.

It's rare that we see such a rage when it comes to stranger murders. They killed them as if they had a personal vendetta against them and that's the truly the exception rather than the rule.

I've also never heard of a defendant jumping up on a table and yelling to the judge that someone outta cut his head off, as he mimicked it with his finger to this throat. The sheer power that Manson had on his followers also played a significant role in all of it.

[NatalieB]

you christians have me baffled where is your compasion or forgiveness and love that your leader and saviour jesus taught you ??


A life for a life you say .

so i hope you are behind the call for the death sentence should he be found quilty of the murderer of DR GEORGE TILLER .


I detest the way those who complain about being * attacked *by others * cus they are believers are very quick to judge others.
.
lets show to the world some of the love and compassion that is the cornerstone of the teaching of JC .....

Don't bring religion into this. The Bible is quite clear on the subject of murder.

If someone who is a Christian wants to show compassion toward a living creature, that's there business, but to try and bully one into it is nothing short of absurd when the Bible clearly states that it's a reason to execute.

[Lavinia]

Actually, I think this is only partially true. Sure, these killings received the publicity that they did because of the status of the individuals murdered, but it's much deeper than that, IMO.

It's rare that we see such a rage when it comes to stranger murders. They killed them as if they had a personal vendetta against them and that's the truly the exception rather than the rule.

I've also never heard of a defendant jumping up on a table and yelling to the judge that someone outta cut his head off, as he mimicked it with his finger to this throat. The sheer power that Manson had on his followers also played a significant role in all of it.

I disagree, Nat. I can think of many defendants who had to be removed from the courtroom as they were a danger to the judge, attorney's or anyone in sight. Also, many murderers will further mutilate a body postmortem and/or pose them in humiliating positions or do other perverted things to the body in an effort to express rage that even killing the victim did not squelch. It may be the exception rather than the rule, but I hesitate to say it's rare.

[NatalieB]

I disagree, Nat. I can think of many defendants who had to be removed from the courtroom as they were a danger to the judge, attorney's or anyone in sight. Also, many murderers will further mutilate a body postmortem and/or pose them in humiliating positions or do other perverted things to the body in an effort to express rage that even killing the victim did not squelch. It may be the exception rather than the rule, but I hesitate to say it's rare.

But it was the combination of it all in its totality that made this case as infamous as it is.

I do concur that Manson himself is nothing but a coward though. I could also slap Casey Anthony. :laugh:

[Lavinia]

But it was the combination of it all in its totality that made this case as infamous as it is.

I do concur that Manson himself is nothing but a coward though. I could also slap Casey Anthony. :laugh:

We'll take turns holding her down and slapping! :sneaky: :lol:

[LisaM22]

Read this (please) and tell me what you think.

http://www.susanatkins.org/6-Myth.html

it sounds like a fairly accurate description of the events to me, very sad story, many victims, many lives ruined by the ex felon pismp cult leader turned murderer named Manson

[LisaM22]

maybe some could say god gave her brain cancer, paralysis over 85% of her body, the amputation of her leg to give people a chance to be compassionate, a test to see if they are or are not - if so, will you pass or fail the test

[crocdog1]

The bible also teaches compassion . forgivness ,turn the other cheek because susan atkins showed no compassion dos,nt mean you as a christian should,nt .
if you want some respect and understanding for your ideals set an example .

ps.

religion (chrisianity ) was mentioned in this thread long before I responded
I didnt as you say* bought it into it *

re: [The bible also teaches compassion . forgivness ,turn the other cheek....]

Jesus was no fool. He knew that his teachings would be interpreted in different ways, especially regards laws of the State, so He made sure as to what Christians should do when their particular interpretation was in conflict with that of the State.

Please read: Matthew 22: 20-22

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=22&verse=20&end_verse=22&version=9&context=context

[Anakerie]

We'll take turns holding her down and slapping! :sneaky: :lol:
Hey.. I'd like to get a slap or two in as well.

As for Susan Atkins and her wish to die at "home"... Have any of you thought of where her "home" was before she was arrested, tried and convicted back then? I'm sure that her wish to die at "home" doesn't mean she wants to go back to that shack out in the desert near Death Valley. She wants a nice comfy house with all the conveniences and comforts that her husband's money can buy.

I still say no to a "compassionate release" for her or for any of the Manson "family". The only reason she or any of the others are still around to beg and plead for their freedom is the fluke that was mentioned in posts above. If their death sentences hadn't been commuted when the moratorium went into effect, this whole discussion wouldn't be taking place because there would never have been a chance for parole for any of them.

I say again, give her just as much compassion as she gave her victims. Which is to say; NONE.

[Noahs ARK]

As I said before, I am usually a very compassionate person and have really thought long and hard about this. I just think this is a journey that she needs to complete behind bars. Our society has been compassionate in allowing her and her group 40 years of life that the jury originally voted to take from them. There are some crimes that are so horrific that the entire price should be paid. IMHO, this is one of them.

I agree with every word!!

[LisaM22]

Okay, I read the book that was linked. Susan Atkins is wrong! She had options and CHOSE to remain with the Manson cult. SA says many times she stayed because she had nowhere else to go. That's BS.

One thing I noticed throughout the whole tome Susan Atkins STILL blames others for the choices SHE made. She takes little to no responsibility for her actions. In the end, Susan makes a long list of why Linda Kasabian is as culpable. However, Linda Kasabian was given immunity for the testimony. Hey Susan Atkins, your parole does not hinge on anyone else but YOU! Obviously, YOU never learned that. Therefore, are YOU genuinely rehabilitated? I don't believe you are.

I do not believe SA should be paroled. That said, I do not believe in judicially mandated death penalty.

wow, is that what you got out of that link, I got so much more, the real truth as to how it went down from one of those involved, she is dying, she wanted the story told, not to help her but to help others that think Manson is some kind of legend or something, she did not remove the blame from herself, she just showed how manipulative Manson was and how he went about it, do you really think she woudl of killed anyone had she never met Manson? I am glad she put her account of what happened in writing

the part I highlighted is not true at all and you know it, it is up to the parole board, simple as that, she has been a model prisoner, done everything right and still she has not been granted parole all these years, she is now dying, had her leg chopped off, 85% of her body is paralyzed, i think its ok to show a little compassion to her and her family don't you?

[R~O~S]

wow, is that what you got out of that link, I got so much more, the real truth as to how it went down from one of those involved, she did not remove the blame from herself, she just showed how manipulative Manson was and how he went about it, do you really think she woudl of killed anyone had she never met Manson?


I know you didn't ask me, but I did read it & I'd like to respond.

We'll never know. What we do know is that his behavior escalated, became more bizarre, more violent, more paranoid. The people he involved himself with were more and more shady. Many of his followers left him, Susan could have and didn't.

She chose to stay, she chose to do as he asked. The reasons for the asking don't matter. That's all she brought to light, an alternative motive. It doesn't absolve her in any way. Time and again she could have just left, she chose to stay, she chose to participate.

A drunk driver never would have run anyone over if he'd never gotten a car either, it doesn't bring his victim back and it doesn't mitigate his crime.

[Noahs ARK]

She chose her destiny. IMO, nobody can manipulate another person to do something this heartless!

From the link....

By her own admission, Atkins held Tate down as she pleaded for mercy and stabbed the pregnant woman 16 times. In a 1993 parole board hearing, Atkins said Tate "asked me to let her baby live. ... I told her I didn't have any mercy on her."

[LisaM22]

I know you didn't ask me, but I did read it & I'd like to respond.

We'll never know. What we do know is that his behavior escalated, became more bizarre, more violent, more paranoid. The people he involved himself with were more and more shady. Many of his followers left him, Susan could have and didn't.

She chose to stay, she chose to do as he asked. The reasons for the asking don't matter. That's all she brought to light, an alternative motive. It doesn't absolve her in any way. Time and again she could have just left, she chose to stay, she chose to participate.

A drunk driver never would have run anyone over if he'd never gotten a car either, it doesn't bring his victim back and it doesn't mitigate his crime.

your right, and she has never said she was not responsible, you can explain how a drunk driver killing someone happened without it meaning the person is not responsible, the reason she stayed was she was addicted to hallucinogenic drugs, just like the person the drives drunk is addicted to alcohol, but lets use your example, if someone give a person a date rape drug like alcohol and she knowingly drinks it, is she responsible if she gets drunk and has sex with that person or is it daterape? what if she drives home instead of having sex and kills someone, is it murder? so the law is not so cut and dry that when you do drugs you are responsible for your actions while on those drugs, be nice if life was so black and white, but there are many many shades of grey and good people can do bad things too, it happens

[LisaM22]

JMO...

All those thing would have happened even had SA not committed the crimes. Being in prison, she got better health care than millions who are law abiding.

which is exactly why Obama is pushing for universal health care

[R~O~S]

your right, and she has never said she was not responsible, you can explain how a drunk driver killing someone happened without it meaning the person is not responsible, the reason she stayed was she was addicted to hallucinogenic drugs, just like the person the drives drunk is addicted to alcohol, but lets use your example, if someone give a person a date rape drug like alcohol and she knowingly drinks it, is she responsible if she gets drunk and has sex with that person or is it daterape? what if she drives home instead of having sex and kills someone, is it murder? so the law is not so cut and dry that when you do drugs you are responsible for your actions while on those drugs, be nice if life was so black and white, but there are many many shades of grey and good people can do bad things too, it happens


On the contrary, intoxication is not a defense because the perp voluntarily ingested the intoxicant. Although it is possible to reduce charges by pleading to a lesser charge and save the state the cost of a trial, at trial the charge is rightfully vehicular homicide.

I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to suggest there was no malice as well as intent to kill in the crimes Susan admits committing:

http://criminal.lawyers.com/DUI-DWI/Death-Due-to-DUI-DWI.html

Murder involves malice, and some jurisdictions will include deaths caused by drunk driving within the definition of murder.

Yep, good people can do bad things, and they pay for them. Susan has not yet finished paying for her crimes here on earth. When she meets her maker he'll be the judge of her eternity.

[R~O~S]

She chose her destiny. IMO, nobody can manipulate another person to do something this heartless!

From the link....

By her own admission, Atkins held Tate down as she pleaded for mercy and stabbed the pregnant woman 16 times. In a 1993 parole board hearing, Atkins said Tate "asked me to let her baby live. ... I told her I didn't have any mercy on her."


:seeya:


ITA, no one could be manipulated to commit such a horrific act of inhumanity if they were morally incapable of it. This wasn't quick, it wasn't an accident, it took time & a total lack of empathy & it was completely unprovoked.

Anyone with a soul would have stopped, they couldn't have continued with the savagery that was perpetrated regardless of what or who they were influence by.

[LisaM22]

On the contrary, intoxication is not a defense because the perp voluntarily ingested the intoxicant. Although it is possible to reduce charges by pleading to a lesser charge and save the state the cost of a trial, at trial the charge is rightfully vehicular homicide.

I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to suggest there was no malice as well as intent to kill in the crimes Susan admits committing:

http://criminal.lawyers.com/DUI-DWI/Death-Due-to-DUI-DWI.html



Yep, good people can do bad things, and they pay for them. Susan has not yet finished paying for her crimes here on earth. When she meets her maker he'll be the judge of her eternity.

and we will never know what she is truly guilty of, was it trying to protect herself from Manson by lying, or was she trying to protect herself from Manson by telling the truth - she has done her time, she will never live free, even on the outside, she is a prisoner of her own body, I believe her story up until that point and then I do not know as either could be true, no one knows, but I say now is the time to show her what compassion is, do you really want to do what you condemn in her and not show compassion to someone in her condition? and just what if she is telling the truth?

[YoYo]

Many times, Susan Atkins states she stayed, because she had no where else to go. That's an excuse. She also states that many left the Family. She made the choice to stay.

Susan Atkins says her son was in the custody of Social Services. Why did she make the choice to retrieve him back to the Family?

Yes, Charles Manson is a despicable person. Susan Atkins chose to follow him even when she could have left. She is culpable for the choices she made. Whether Susan Atkins actually murdered Sharon Tate or not, she is a despicable human being as well.

If I read correctly in the article I posted, she indicated that Manson sent four of his men with her to retrieve her child and implied that she had "no choice."

[YoYo]

I asked what others thought of her story in the article I linked....

My opinion - (very simply stated) she admitted that she was involved, but mostly she wanted to point the blame at Manson.

[LisaM22]

I said "if someone give a person a date rape drug like alcohol and she knowingly drinks it, is she responsible if she gets drunk and has sex with that person or is it daterape? what if she drives home instead of having sex and kills someone, is it murder?"

R~O~S said "On the contrary, intoxication is not a defense because the perp voluntarily ingested the intoxicant."

so in your opinion someone that has sex while drunk is responsible for their actions, just as someone that drives drunk is? - that is what I mean by that not being cut and dry as some would disagree with you and call the prior daterape, but really this is probably getting to far off topic

[LisaM22]

I asked what others thought of her story in the article I linked....

My opinion - (very simply stated) she admitted that she was involved, but mostly she wanted to point the blame at Manson.

I think most of us would agree most of the Blame is with Manson

[R~O~S]

and we will never know what she is truly guilty of, was it trying to protect herself from Manson by lying, or was she trying to protect herself from Manson by telling the truth - she has done her time, she will never live free, even on the outside, she is a prisoner of her own body, I believe her story up until that point and then I do not know as either could be true, no one knows, but I say now is the time to show her what compassion is, do you really want to do what you condemn in her and not show compassion to someone in her condition? and just what if she is telling the truth?

It matters not, she committed the horrific acts of inhumanity against a total innocent when she had all the opportunity in the world to change course. Leave to Ceasar that which is Ceasar's.

That she had no place to go simply isn't a valid justification for what she did. Now she has a place to be & she earned it in spades.

There is a price to be paid for the acts of men here on earth. She was shown all the compassion she deserves when they reversed the death sentence originally imposed. She should have met her maker decades ago, that she didn't allowed her to live her life to this point. She had no such compassion for her victims.

[R~O~S]

I said "if someone give a person a date rape drug like alcohol and she knowingly drinks it, is she responsible if she gets drunk and has sex with that person or is it daterape? what if she drives home instead of having sex and kills someone, is it murder?"

R~O~S said "On the contrary, intoxication is not a defense because the perp voluntarily ingested the intoxicant."

so in your opinion someone that has sex while drunk is responsible for their actions, just as someone that drives drunk is? - that is what I mean by that not being cut and dry, but really this is probably getting to far off topic


Indeed they are, knowingly drank it, yes they are responsible for their actions. Which is completely different than being tabbed unknowingly. Which is exactly why I responded as I did.

[YoYo]

At the site that was linked earlier, Susan Atkins goes into great detail about NOT being responsible for the murder of Sharon Tate. She told Bugliosi she was to keep from getting the DP.

I say liar, liar pants on fire.

JMO

I'll admit - I didn't give the article 100% of my attention, but did she say (in the article) who did?

[R~O~S]

snipped for pertinence

Sorry to butt in, is alcohol considered a "date-rape drug"?

Apparently women are incapable of understanding alcohol reduces inhibitions and therefore they're not responsible for their own actions by drinking it and what happens thereafter.

Another subject for another thread, personal responsibility would be a good title.

[NatalieB]

The bible also teaches compassion . forgivness ,turn the other cheek because susan atkins showed no compassion dos,nt mean you as a christian should,nt .
if you want some respect and understanding for your ideals set an example .

ps.

religion (chrisianity ) was mentioned in this thread long before I responded
I didnt as you say* bought it into it *

Well, the others who spoke of religion spoke for themselves. They didn't chastise others for their beliefs. That's what you brought to the thread, IMO.

The Bible is clear that murders should be punished by death. That doesn't mean we have to treat them like animals, but it also doesn't mean we should turn the other cheek, either.

[NatalieB]

maybe some could say god gave her brain cancer, paralysis over 85% of her body, the amputation of her leg to give people a chance to be compassionate, a test to see if they are or are not - if so, will you pass or fail the test

It could also be her own karma catching up with her.

God doesn't interfere with free choice. He never has and he never will. We all suffer for the sins of the father.

[NatalieB]

which is exactly why Obama is pushing for universal health care

I like Obama as much as you, but the money simply isn't there for a universal health care system. It's just not.

[NatalieB]

:seeya:


ITA, no one could be manipulated to commit such a horrific act of inhumanity if they were morally incapable of it. This wasn't quick, it wasn't an accident, it took time & a total lack of empathy & it was completely unprovoked.

Anyone with a soul would have stopped, they couldn't have continued with the savagery that was perpetrated regardless of what or who they were influence by.

Yeah, she was so remorseful that she begged Manson not to send her out for the La Bianca murders, NOT!

She literally bragged about the Tate murders. That's in the most literal sense possible too. She was very pleased with herself.

[NatalieB]

and we will never know what she is truly guilty of, was it trying to protect herself from Manson by lying, or was she trying to protect herself from Manson by telling the truth - she has done her time, she will never live free, even on the outside, she is a prisoner of her own body, I believe her story up until that point and then I do not know as either could be true, no one knows, but I say now is the time to show her what compassion is, do you really want to do what you condemn in her and not show compassion to someone in her condition? and just what if she is telling the truth?

She's not condemned because she didn't know how to show compassion. She is condemned because she physically, methodically, willfully, and happily, bludgeoned people to death. Afterward, complained a bit because her hand hurt from hitting the bones as she was pushing a knife into her victim's body and the bones got in the way. Of course, let's not forget the orgasm she had while having her fun.

[NatalieB]

I think most of us would agree most of the Blame is with Manson

Prosecutors could never show anything that proved that Manson was physically involved in anyone's death. Of course, we know he did cut Hinman's ear.

There is no doubt he's the spawn of Satan, but Susan is just as guilty.

[airportwoman]

Susan Atkins, who stabbed Sharon Tate and her unborn son to death, has requsted "compassionate release", again.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/05/california.manson.family.hearing/index.html

I am usually a pretty compassionate person but, IMHO, this is one person who should spend every second of the rest of her life behind bars. She showed not one iota of compassion for Sharon Tate and her child's life. Atkins admitted that Sharon begged for the life of her child and that she told her that she had no mercy for her before she stabbed her to death.
What I don't understand is why Vincent Bugliosi (the prosecuter) is supporting her request "because she is no longer a danger to anyone".
Personally, I think this is God letting her see that, while her soul may be saved by Grace, she still has to pay something for what she did. Her penance, if you will.

I haven't read the whole thread, but Susan actually had a child (whom she sexually abused almost from birth) when she committed these murders.

I say leave her in prison. If her conversion to Christianity was genuine, that's for God to judge, but here on earth? Throw away the key.

[DesertWalker]

I asked what others thought of her story in the article I linked....

My opinion - (very simply stated) she admitted that she was involved, but mostly she wanted to point the blame at Manson.
I found it incredibly interesting, YoYo. Perhaps partly because I followed the Manson Family trials when they were happening and also because I find the human mind, and the horror it can create, accept, and recover from to be fascinating.

My take might be a tad less skeptical than yours but I certainly see your point.

[courtsinsession]

When I think "old woman, dying, 85% paralyzed", I think "compassionate release".

I lived and grew up near where and when all this occured.

When I remember:

Susan Atkins stabbed pregnant Sharon Tate 16 times, and drank Sharon's blood, and used Sharon's own blood to scrawl the word "Pig" on the door.

When I remember learning that Susan Atkins told Sharon Tate "Woman, I have no mercy for you"

When I remember that Susan Atkins testified in court that she stabbed Sharon Tate, because she was, "sick of listening to her, pleading and begging, begging and pleading".

When I remember the sheer barbarity of these crimes, the lack of COMPASSION these perps held for their victims. The cruelness with which they carried out these crimes.

When I remember those things, I cannot agree with any "compassionate release" for any of them.

That does not lower me to their level. That does not make me the animal they are. That does not make me cruel. That does not me me "no better than she is". (In my mind it is laugably absurd to equate being against their compassionate release as being "like" them or "no better than them" - completely ridiculous! To equate someone wanting them to serve their sentence for what they did, as being as cruel and barbaric as they were when they commited these crimes has to be some kind of joke - quit kidding me!).

Perhaps the passage of time since she was imprisoned have changed her. Perhaps she has "converted". If so, then she can continue serving others while in prison and be thankful she got to live at all after what she did. She isn't in prison for those things she does while in prison - she is in prison for the barbaric things she did to other human beings outside of prison. And who knows how she would be as a person if she was never caught. Maybe she'd have become a "better person". Or maybe not - maybe it is the trappings of life in a cell that have allowed her to reflect and change. Who knows? In my mind - how she behaves in prison is not part of my equation when I come to my own personal opinion of whether I support "compassionate release" for her.

Susan Atkins basically was "fluked" into not receiving the death penatly. She deserved "the chair", and should have visited it long ago. She was commuted to life. And she should serve every minute of that sentence. For some, "life" should mean "life". She is one of them.

JMO
Martek

you said exactly what I am thinking.

[YoYo]

I found it incredibly interesting, YoYo. Perhaps partly because I followed the Manson Family trials when they were happening and also because I find the human mind, and the horror it can create, accept, and recover from to be fascinating.

My take might be a tad less skeptical than yours but I certainly see your point.

:wub: ............

[YoYo]

No. SA says she was there but did not participate.:rolleyes:Read Chapter 26. http://www.susanatkins.org/6-Myth.html

I read the whole thing. Susan Atkins seems more irate at being caught than being remorseful. She blames everyone instead of accepting responsibility for her bad choices.

Thank you.

[LisaM22]

I haven't read the whole thread, but Susan actually had a child (whom she sexually abused almost from birth) when she committed these murders.

I say leave her in prison. If her conversion to Christianity was genuine, that's for God to judge, but here on earth? Throw away the key.

if she did not have terminal brain cancer, a leg recently amputated and 85% of her body paralyzed I would agree with you, I think she is just as much in a prison outside as inside the walls at this point, the only difference is the convince for her family when visiting her and the money that would be saved by the state, which from what I understand has already reached almost 1.5 million dollars sense her illness, if it is worth the expense to keep her there at this point is questionable

[LisaM22]

so are people upset that Linda Kasabian went free through a immunity deal? Atkins is only asking to be released while on her death bed, she also helped bring Manson down too, she just did not get as good a deal as linda did

[LisaM22]

She's not condemned because she didn't know how to show compassion. She is condemned because she physically, methodically, willfully, and happily, bludgeoned people to death. Afterward, complained a bit because her hand hurt from hitting the bones as she was pushing a knife into her victim's body and the bones got in the way. Of course, let's not forget the orgasm she had while having her fun.

that is what they say, but her knife was found not to have any traces of blood on it according to that article, so did she really kill her, not 100% sure of that, what would you say to protect yourself from mansons followers if you thought the police were against you and your were convicted and were gonna be locked up with them? I would say that leaves some doubt as to if she really did kill her - but that is not really the question here, the question is do we as a society have compassion for an old lady with brain cancer, an amputated leg and 85% of her body paralyzed, I say yes

I always have trouble believing the testimony of jailhouse snitches because the defendant is trying to act tough or the other criminal is lying to get a deal most of the time

[taylor63]

I am a Christian too like many of the posters on here. My heart goes out mainly to Sharon's family.

I remember a cousin of Mrs.Tate saying the mother would cry out like a wounded animal after her daughter was murdered. Imagine knowing your child went through that kind of terror in the last few moments of her life before she was brutally murdered it must be a parent's worst nightmare. It's so heartbreaking.

On the other hand,Susan has repented of her crime and has asked forgiveness and she is certainly not a threat to anyone anymore. She's a dying woman.

I feel for her family as well, but Susan was at least shown some mercy already in the fact that she did not get the death penalty. Even if she was released, how would it be any different then where she is right now isn't she is a hospital?

[taylor63]

You know I don't mean to change the subject, but I just can't help but compare this case to the case of John Demunak. He is an accussed Nazi war criminal who the German government recently extradiated.

Like Susan Atkins and her family are now fighting for her release,he and his family fought tooth and nail to keep him from being extradiated to Germany to stand trial for allegedly being responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent people.

His victims, who were mainly Jewish people, included men, women, pregnant woman,the elderly,infants,little children. Yet there's alot of people want mercy shown him because he is old and sick. I just wonder if these same people would feel the same way about Susan Atkins because she is a dying old woman.

[rambo55]

I would like to believe that as a society we have more compassion than Manson's followers showed their victims.

Susan Atkins is the least deserving of those family members, but what do we gain by keeping her in prison to die? She is without question suffering longer than her victims and she has been punished- the other reason for prison is to protect society- She is no longer a threat.

As a Christian I say let her go home to die.


Respectfully, I disagree 100%. That said, I DO believe that we as a society show we have much more compassion than people like SA all the time. Otherwise, she would not be alive all these years later to attempt to pull at our heartstrings.

I have no problem with her being disappointed she can't die outside prison. The people she helped slaughter had comitted no crime, were not infriging on anyones rights and begged in vain to have their lives spared. She showed no mercy and participated in their slaughter. She ignored their screams, pleas, terror and pain that she assisted in administering - even knowing an innocent unborn child was being murdered.

I don't understand how you can say she has been punished, and has suffered longer than her victims... Are you kidding me ??? They are dead and have been for a long time... They have families that have to live with knowing their loved ones went through unimaginable horror. I don't understand how you can say give someone like this a "pass" so they can go off and die in "peace and comfort".

Give me a break. IMO of course.

[taylor63]

so are people upset that Linda Kasabian went free through a immunity deal? Atkins is only asking to be released while on her death bed, she also helped bring Manson down too, she just did not get as good a deal as linda did

Linda Kasabian didn't murder anyone Lisa, and felt horrible about what happened thats the difference.

[LisaM22]

appears she was denied release on Friday, so she will die where she is, you all that wanted that can now be happy

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/susan-atkins-denied-parole-compassionate-release

[taylor63]

from what I read she participated in the crime, even sharpened the knives that were used to kill these people and that may be all Susan did as well, we will never know for sure if Susan actually killed anyone or not

I did not realize that. I read the book Helter Skelter, and from what I remember she did not even realize what was going to happen the night the gang went out to murder.

When one of the victims fell on a bush in the yard at Sharon Tate's house after he had been stabbed, she said that she said Oh God I am sorry.

She also said she was afraid to go to the police right away because her little daughter was at the Manson ranch, and was in fear of her life.

[Anakerie]

if she did not have terminal brain cancer, a leg recently amputated and 85% of her body paralyzed I would agree with you, I think she is just as much in a prison outside as inside the walls at this point, the only difference is the convince for her family when visiting her and the money that would be saved by the state, which from what I understand has already reached almost 1.5 million dollars sense her illness, if it is worth the expense to keep her there at this point is questionable
You are assuming that her husband and family would take over the costs of her care. I have a feeling that they would find a way for the costs of her continued care outside prison to be passed on to the taxpayers anyway. People play the system all the time, and I'm sure her husband and family have already researched the ways and means for the State to pay for her medical care.

[Anakerie]

so are people upset that Linda Kasabian went free through a immunity deal? Atkins is only asking to be released while on her death bed, she also helped bring Manson down too, she just did not get as good a deal as linda did
Linda Kasabian should have been in prison as well. The big difference between the two women is that Atkins seemed to be proud of what she did. Who did Kasabian kill? (I've forgotten and need to go hunting for information and I don't want to because my head feels like it's going to explode any minute now.. lol)

ETA: I went and did a bit of reading.. Kasabian didn't do any killing at either the Polanski/Tate home or the La Bianca home.. She was a lookout at the Tate murders and she left the La Bianca home with Manson before the killing started. She still should have served some time, but there is no way that she was as guilty as Atkins or the others who did the actual killings.

[rambo55]

if she did not have terminal brain cancer, a leg recently amputated and 85% of her body paralyzed I would agree with you, I think she is just as much in a prison outside as inside the walls at this point, the only difference is the convince for her family when visiting her and the money that would be saved by the state, which from what I understand has already reached almost 1.5 million dollars sense her illness, if it is worth the expense to keep her there at this point is questionable


If things are so bad for her give her the option of staying where she is or lethal injection...That's 2 more choices she gave her victims.

[withay]

appears she was denied release on Friday, so she will die where she is, you all that wanted that can now be happy

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/susan-atkins-denied-parole-compassionate-release

As I wrote earlier, my decision about how I feel has come after thinking about this a lot. I do believe that God has forgiven her if she has a genuine sorrow for what she did. And I believe that she can be treated compassionately without releasing her from prison. Apparently the California Parole Board believes the same.

[Anakerie]

appears she was denied release on Friday, so she will die where she is, you all that wanted that can now be happy

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/susan-atkins-denied-parole-compassionate-release
I don't think that film clip was from this past Friday.. I believe that is the hearing from last year.
Dying Manson follower Susan Atkins denied parole
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/15/RVII11PNU7.DTL


The only recent articles I can find about her are noting that no hearing will be taking place until September.
40 years after Manson murders, a bid for parole
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/05/california.manson.family.hearing/

You see, I live near Sacramento and I watch Sacramento TV stations. I would have remembered hearing about a hearing for a Manson follower if it had been on the news... It wasn't.

Here's a link for the channel your clip was from:
http://cbs13.com/

[Tracian]

appears she was denied release on Friday, so she will die where she is, you all that wanted that can now be happy

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/susan-atkins-denied-parole-compassionate-release

Works for me....she should have been executed but for the repeal of the DP she would have been.

Nice...all this sympathy for Akins...where was HERS when Sharon Tate begged for her baby's life? A baby that could have survived outside the womb?

Sorry...she is a creature, and because she was a 'model prisoner' means nothing to me, because it just means she was just too much of a coward to take on someone that could fight back.

[Lavinia]

your right, and she has never said she was not responsible, you can explain how a drunk driver killing someone happened without it meaning the person is not responsible, the reason she stayed was she was addicted to hallucinogenic drugs, just like the person the drives drunk is addicted to alcohol, but lets use your example, if someone give a person a date rape drug like alcohol and she knowingly drinks it, is she responsible if she gets drunk and has sex with that person or is it daterape? what if she drives home instead of having sex and kills someone, is it murder? so the law is not so cut and dry that when you do drugs you are responsible for your actions while on those drugs, be nice if life was so black and white, but there are many many shades of grey and good people can do bad things too, it happens

Hallucinogenic drugs are not addictive. She may have been living in a lifestyle that supported the use of such drugs, and by all accounts she did, but she did not take LSD due to an addiction. LSD and other hallucinogens have zero physiological addictive properties and mild to none psychological properties.

[Tracian]

As I wrote earlier, my decision about how I feel has come after thinking about this a lot. I do believe that God has forgiven her if she has a genuine sorrow for what she did. And I believe that she can be treated compassionately without releasing her from prison. Apparently the California Parole Board believes the same.



In prison or out she is going to live off my taxes. Funny, she is getting better care and compassion than many that suffer from cancer and that are too poor and are on Medical to get the same....and they never butchered people....

[joolz]

appears she was denied release on Friday, so she will die where she is, you all that wanted that can now be happy

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/susan-atkins-denied-parole-compassionate-release

Judgmental much? You feel free to support Atkins' wish for compassionate release, I feel free to oppose it. It doesn't make me "happy." There's nothing about the Manson crimes, the people involved or the aftermath - including Atkins dying in prison - that produces "happiness." :glare:

[Lavinia]

In prison or out she is going to live off my taxes. Funny, she is getting better care and compassion than many that suffer from cancer and that are too poor and are on Medical to get the same....and they never butchered people....

And she most likely will get excellent care. When I worked as an RN at a max. security prison, I was a contract worker from a well known medical university. When I first started at the prison, HIV deaths were at their zenith in the public sector yet the inmates were the first to use the triple-cocktail that became the drugs of choice among all HIV patients. First time in history we were taking our hospice patients OUT of hospice care because they weren't dying any more. Of course there are some diseases I wouldn't suggest getting in prison. The treatment is rather unequal to say the least. Don't EVEN try a psychiatric disease. Shhesh.

[Tracian]

your right, and she has never said she was not responsible, you can explain how a drunk driver killing someone happened without it meaning the person is not responsible, the reason she stayed was she was addicted to hallucinogenic drugs, just like the person the drives drunk is addicted to alcohol, but lets use your example, if someone give a person a date rape drug like alcohol and she knowingly drinks it, is she responsible if she gets drunk and has sex with that person or is it daterape? what if she drives home instead of having sex and kills someone, is it murder? so the law is not so cut and dry that when you do drugs you are responsible for your actions while on those drugs, be nice if life was so black and white, but there are many many shades of grey and good people can do bad things too, it happens



No. First if someone drinks and gets behind a wheel and kills someone...that is no different than taking a loaded gun and firing randomly on a busy street...they should be tried, and convicted of murder.


Second...

Unless she was abducted, forced to do drugs, led into a house and someone held the knife in her hand, forcing her to stab these people in a sick massacre..she is guilty of murder, and should have been gassed.


Third...

Drug raped drugs mean you are helpless to protect YOURSELF...never has a person on a drug rape drug raped someone, they were a victim, because they were unable to protect themselves...they did not butcher people, write things in their blood, and then pick them selves up, dust themselves off, and do it again.

As far as the driving and hitting someone..well that would have to be proven in court...otherwise, hey that would be a great defense for all the jerks that choose to drive altered and take a life...(I was drugged...it was not MY fault...someone is dead...Ohhhh...I am a victim TOOOOOOO!!!!!)

Forth...

IF we as a society continue to make 'excuses' ....'They were on drugs' "They read Porn" ...."They ate Twinkies"...."They were abused"

Then, golly, let's just open the prison doors, and let all of those that feel this way take these 'misunderstood' people into their homes and be held responsible, (unless they too become the next victim of the misunderstood) and then I have no problem with that; in fact let's go a step further...Sex offenders, served their time...how dare society have the nerve to monitor them...let's give them new names and identities, (as they suffered enough) and let them live like everyone else...should some unfortunate child or woman come up missing...that's the breaks..


Susan Atkins ENJOYED doing the bidding of Charlie, do I care that she has cancer...NOPE. She is getting better care than the poor in my state that NEVER broke a law.


Now, I agree that law and crime is not black and white..there are shades of grey...but where the 'Manson Family' is concerned...there is nothing by darkness...they ate with it, they slept with it, they invited it in their souls, they embraced it...and they murdered for it.

And I as a tax payer in the state of CA...want her right where she is...sympathy? compassion? She has gotten more than she ever gave.

...Ask Sharon, her baby, the Bianco's..and then ask the surviving victims of Susan Akins.

[LisaM22]

If things are so bad for her give her the option of staying where she is or lethal injection...That's 2 more choices she gave her victims.

I believe in death with dignity, so I feel she should be able to ask for assistance with that if she wants

[rambo55]

appears she was denied release on Friday, so she will die where she is, you all that wanted that can now be happy

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/susan-atkins-denied-parole-compassionate-release



Really? Is this true?... If so, for me personally - "happy" isn't the way I would describe it... However, "Just" seems quite appropriate . Maybe now her victims remaing family members can sleep without one eye open.

[LisaM22]

In prison or out she is going to live off my taxes. Funny, she is getting better care and compassion than many that suffer from cancer and that are too poor and are on Medical to get the same....and they never butchered people....

her husband is a attorney, I doubt she would qualify for financial aide

[LisaM22]

Really? Is this true?... If so, for me personally - "happy" isn't the way I would describe it... However, "Just" seems quite appropriate . Maybe now her victims remaing family members can sleep without one eye open.

yeah, I am sure they were worried about the one legged, mostly parallelized women coming to get them in their sleep if she was released

[joolz]

yeah, I am sure they were worried about the one legged, mostly parallelized women coming to get them in their sleep if she was released

It's called PTSD, and just because you scoff at it doesn't mean that the people traumatized by the Manson "family" don't suffer from it.

[Anakerie]

yeah, I am sure they were worried about the one legged, mostly parallelized women coming to get them in their sleep if she was released
So, you really and truly want this woman out of prison because she is sick, huh?

Should we then go through the prisons all over this country and release any and all prisoners who are sick with cancer, HIV or anything else just because they are sick and dying? No matter what their crime was? No matter how many human beings they killed? Even if they killed infants?

It doesn't work for me. They are in prison for a reason. Sometimes for many reasons. Susan Atkins is one woman, granted mostly paralyzed and dying, but do you truly want to set a precedent for hundreds of other prisoners to be released from prison because they are ill?

She was sentenced to death. She got life because of a fluke in the laws of the land. She now has a "death sentence" again, only this one is not from her fellow man... Let her stay where she is and serve her sentence.

[LisaM22]

It's called PTSD, and just because you scoff at it doesn't mean that the people traumatized by the Manson "family" don't suffer from it.

then they could be just as fearful of her ghost coming to get them after she dies, do you have a link to any living family members with PTSD though?

[rambo55]

yeah, I am sure they were worried about the one legged, mostly parallelized women coming to get them in their sleep if she was released


I bet they are... to them she will always be the "butcher". Face it, in her best days she wasn't anything you would THINK you needed to be afraid of. However, when you hand any disfunctional group with a murder mentality weapons, we all need to either be afraid or be ready to meet the challenge.

[Tracian]

her husband is a attorney, I doubt she would qualify for financial aide

Really...is the good hubby paying for her treatments now? Is the good hubby paying for anything, other than of course trying to get a murderess out of prison?


BTW, I believe in death with dignity as well...How much 'dignity' did Susan give her victims?


She has already gotten far more than that.


And as far as her husband...GMAB...he is just another twit that marries a notorious person because they don't want a real relationship, or have stars in their eyes for the book or movie rights. He is no different, IMO than those idiots females that marry the likes of Richard Ramirez.

Goes to prove a degree does not mean someone has the slighest morality or common sense.

[LisaM22]

So, you really and truly want this woman out of prison because she is sick, huh?

Should we then go through the prisons all over this country and release any and all prisoners who are sick with cancer, HIV or anything else just because they are sick and dying? No matter what their crime was? No matter how many human beings they killed? Even if they killed infants?

It doesn't work for me. They are in prison for a reason. Sometimes for many reasons. Susan Atkins is one woman, granted mostly paralyzed and dying, but do you truly want to set a precedent for hundreds of other prisoners to be released from prison because they are ill?

She was sentenced to death. She got life because of a fluke in the laws of the land. She now has a "death sentence" again, only this one is not from her fellow man... Let her stay where she is and serve her sentence.

if they are terminal ill, gonna die in a few months and 85% parallelized and costing tax payers millions to keep them in there like she is, then I say yes

not sure what you mean by set a precedent, there was a form she needed to fill out to request this, it was already there, all a inmate that is dying has to do is request it

[Tracian]

yeah, I am sure they were worried about the one legged, mostly parallelized women coming to get them in their sleep if she was released


Such compassion....I am sure the real victims appreciate that.

Karma...is a butt kicker.


Wait...remember that creature that abducted Stephen Stainer?....Yeah, he was in a wheel chair...yet, he still tried to purchase children for his sick needs once released....

Susan Akins has a cult following...she is where she belongs...well I take that back...she will be where she belongs soon....hopefully.

[Lavinia]

if they are terminal ill, gonna die in a few months and 85% parallelized and costing tax payers millions to keep them in there like she is, then I say yes

not sure what you mean by set a precedent, there was a form she needed to fill out to request this, it was already there, all a inmate that is dying has to do is request it

I'm willing to bet the taxpayers will be paying in one way or the other.

[Anakerie]

if they are terminal ill, gonna die in a few months and 85% parallelized and costing tax payers millions to keep them in there like she is, then I say yes
Susan Atkins used the "only have a few months to live" plea for freedom a year ago. She was 85% paralyzed last year too... What has changed?

Did you look at the links I put up thread? She has a hearing in September... I'm sure the family of her victims will be there.

[joolz]

then they could be just as fearful of her ghost coming to get them after she dies, do you have a link to any living family members with PTSD though?


No, I just have empathy for the victims' families, while you apparently reserve yours for the butchering killer. Your choice.

I just resent being told I'm "happy" about anything having to do with Atkins and that bunch of murdering psychos. They have all lived long, long lives after the two bloodbaths (more, actually, if you count their other Spahn Ranch victims and that pathetic lawyer) they were responsible for.

As I said before - and you chose to ignore - there is nothing about that entire hideous saga, including Atkins dying in or out of prison, that makes me "happy."

And I don't think that joking about being afraid of ghosts is very funny. jmo

[Tracian]

if they are terminal ill, gonna die in a few months and 85% parallelized and costing tax payers millions to keep them in there like she is, then I say yes

not sure what you mean by set a precedent, there was a form she needed to fill out to request this, it was already there, all a inmate that is dying has to do is request it


She should die in prison. Works for the taxpayers in CA.

She wants out...she wants to 'live the last days with loved ones'...

California, and those that still live and suffer want her to pay the price, and that is to die in prison...at least unlike her victims, her loved ones can be with her and hold her hand...

[LisaM22]

Such compassion....I am sure the real victims appreciate that.

Karma...is a butt kicker.


Wait...remember that creature that abducted Stephen Stainer?....Yeah, he was in a wheel chair...yet, he still tried to purchase children for his sick needs once released....

Susan Akins has a cult following...she is where she belongs...well I take that back...she will be where she belongs soon....hopefully.

being in a wheelchair and being terminally ill and unable to sit up on your own, 85% paralyzed, one leg amputated is not the same as someone just being in a wheelchair, as for karma, what if she is telling the truth and did not kill her and did life in prison for it? was it because she wished the same fate on someone that was innocent in a past life? ....

[Anakerie]

being in a wheelchair and being terminally ill and unable to sit up on your own, 85% paralyzed, one leg amputated is not the same as someone just being in a wheelchair, as for karma, what if she is telling the truth and did not kill her and did life in prison for it? was it because she wished the same fate on someone that was innocent in a past life? ....
Wow... So you want to retry the case? 40 years later?

Good grief. :rolleyes: It's not going to happen.

[Tracian]

then they could be just as fearful of her ghost coming to get them after she dies, do you have a link to any living family members with PTSD though?


This argument is why so many like myself are PRO DP...

Any excuse to get someone out is manuvered in the legal system, that is why LWOP means nothing.

Can you provide a link to prove that Susan Akins is really sorry for what she did? Can you provide a link to her mind, and soul?

Of course not...she just because she can live with what she did, proves to me she has no remorse.

If I in a frenzy of drugs, or whatever, could do what she did...I would be on suicide watch the minute that realization hit...how could anyone get through the slaughter they not only participated in, but relished in court?

Susan is lucky, she has so many looking out for mercy for her suffering..

Her living victims can only live with the images of her actions..

Yeah, I am sure that they are just ducky with that...no issues or pain there.

[Tracian]

being in a wheelchair and being terminally ill and unable to sit up on your own, 85% paralyzed, one leg amputated is not the same as someone just being in a wheelchair, as for karma, what if she is telling the truth and did not kill her and did life in prison for it? was it because she wished the same fate on someone that was innocent in a past life? ....


The evidence of her conviction had nothing to do with a past life.



While in jail, Atkins befriended two middle-aged career criminals, Virginia Graham and Veronica "Ronnie" Howard, to whom she confessed her participation in the Tate/LaBianca murders, for example telling the women that she stabbed Tate and that she had tasted Tate's blood. They subsequently reported her statements to the authorities.[13] This, combined with information from other sources, led to the arrest of Atkins and others involved in the Tate/LaBianca murders (Van Houten, Krenwinkel, Kasabian and Watson).

Atkins agreed to testify for the prosecution in exchange for dropping the death penalty, and she then testified before the grand jury as to what had transpired on the nights of August 8 and 9, 1969. [14] Atkins told the grand jury that she stabbed Frykowski in the legs and that she held Tate down while Watson stabbed her. She also testified that Tate had pleaded for her life and that of her unborn child, to which Atkins replied, "Woman, I have no mercy for you." She also denied her earlier statement to Howard and Graham that she had tasted Tate's blood.[5] Prior to the trial, Atkins discontinued her cooperation with the prosecution and repudiated her grand jury testimony, although years later she would state that this testimony was truthful and accurate as to what transpired in the Tate home.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Atkins


Truth is a convenient term for Atkins...why in the name of heaven or hell would she tell the Grand Jury one thing...change it, and then again admit the first statements?

Lisa, we have agreed and disagreed for a long time...on this we are at an impasse...I would rather keep your friendship and respect than destroy on the likes of Susan Atkins.

I will never have sympathy for her...not in a million years; I respect your right to have sympathy.

[Noahs ARK]

appears she was denied release on Friday, so she will die where she is, you all that wanted that can now be happy

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/susan-atkins-denied-parole-compassionate-release

I wonder if you would be defending her wish to die surrounded by her loved ones if it had been YOUR pregnant daughter that had been slaughtered.

She probably isn't a threat to anyone, but why in the world should she be shown any compassion after she refused to show any compassion to her victims?

I have no problem letting her die in prison. She's still lived years longer than she should have.

[LisaM22]

Wow... So you want to retry the case? 40 years later?

Good grief. :rolleyes: It's not going to happen.

nope, I am just saying we do not know for sure and she is dying and not a danger to anyone and I would of shown her and her family some compassion - but that is just me, not saying you have to show her any compassion at all

[LisaM22]

This argument is why so many like myself are PRO DP...

Any excuse to get someone out is manuvered in the legal system, that is why LWOP means nothing.
<snip>

she did not get lwop, she got life, there is a difference

[LisaM22]

The evidence of her conviction had nothing to do with a past life.<snip>

you brought up karma, I was just giving an alternative scenario, she got into drugs, had she killed tate or not I do not know, she was there, she participated in the before and after and is guilty in that aspect if no other, she made some major mistakes, I am just saying we could of shown a little compassion during her final days as she is dieing

[LisaM22]

The evidence of her conviction had nothing to do with a past life.



While in jail, Atkins befriended two middle-aged career criminals, Virginia Graham and Veronica "Ronnie" Howard, to whom she confessed her participation in the Tate/LaBianca murders, for example telling the women that she stabbed Tate and that she had tasted Tate's blood. They subsequently reported her statements to the authorities.[13] This, combined with information from other sources, led to the arrest of Atkins and others involved in the Tate/LaBianca murders (Van Houten, Krenwinkel, Kasabian and Watson).

Atkins agreed to testify for the prosecution in exchange for dropping the death penalty, and she then testified before the grand jury as to what had transpired on the nights of August 8 and 9, 1969. [14] Atkins told the grand jury that she stabbed Frykowski in the legs and that she held Tate down while Watson stabbed her. She also testified that Tate had pleaded for her life and that of her unborn child, to which Atkins replied, "Woman, I have no mercy for you." She also denied her earlier statement to Howard and Graham that she had tasted Tate's blood.[5] Prior to the trial, Atkins discontinued her cooperation with the prosecution and repudiated her grand jury testimony, although years later she would state that this testimony was truthful and accurate as to what transpired in the Tate home.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Atkins


Truth is a convenient term for Atkins...why in the name of heaven or hell would she tell the Grand Jury one thing...change it, and then again admit the first statements?

Lisa, we have agreed and disagreed for a long time...on this we are at an impasse...I would rather keep your friendship and respect than destroy on the likes of Susan Atkins.

I will never have sympathy for her...not in a million years; I respect your right to have sympathy.

I can only tell you the reasons she gave for saying that, she said she was already convicted and was fearful of being in prision with mansons associates, and when she told that it was her to those she was in jail with it was to act tough, she doesn't deny saying it

yes, we have agreed and disagreed many times :) this is one we disagree on, you still have my respect, lol, we just disagree, nothing wrong with that

[airportwoman]

yeah, I am sure they were worried about the one legged, mostly parallelized women coming to get them in their sleep if she was released

She might not be able to assault anybody now, but people like this can certainly get other people to do their dirty work.

[kitty1182]

I think she should stay where she is..IMO

[SwFlorida]

I think she should stay where she is..IMO
ITA

She had no compassion for Sharon Tate. Her sentence was life. Well we are close to seeing the sentence carried out. IMO

[Anakerie]

she did not get lwop, she got life, there is a difference
She was sentenced to the death penalty. The only reason she is still around is because for a short period of time there was no death penalty and all the condemned had their sentences commuted to life. Lucky her.

[LisaM22]

She was sentenced to the death penalty. The only reason she is still around is because for a short period of time there was no death penalty and all the condemned had their sentences commuted to life.

yes, so she was serving a life sentence, not lwop

[Anakerie]

yes, so she was serving a life sentence, not lwop

When a convict is sentenced to "life", there is no guarantee that they will be paroled. How many other prisoners who had their sentences commuted to life at the same time Susan had hers changed have been paroled?

IMO, there was a reason for a death sentence for all those people, including Susan and the rest of the Manson "family". The fluke that gave the condemned a "life" sentence was pure luck for those people and I have a feeling that the parole boards don't let any of them out just for the heck of it.. Susan asked for a release last year because of her health. She was turned down. She is giving the exact same reasons this year that she gave last year. What is the difference? IMO, nothing is different.

[LisaM22]

When a convict is sentenced to "life", there is no guarantee that they will be paroled. How many other prisoners who had their sentences commuted to life at the same time Susan had hers changed have been paroled?

IMO, there was a reason for a death sentence. The fluke that gave the condemned a "life" sentence was pure luck for those people and I have a feeling that the parole boards don't let any of them out just for the heck of it.. Susan asked for a release last year because of her health. She was turned down. She is giving the exact same reasons this year that she gave last year. What is difference? IMO, nothing is different.

regardless of how she got life with the option of parole instead of lwop doesn't matter, I know the parole board never planed to release her, you know that, but they can never admit that, they always have to act like she could do better and they would give her a parole, what do you think they told her she needed to do each time? be interesting to see the list of things the parole board requested of her over the years, the parole board is not there to turn a life with parole into a lwop, they are there to parole a prisoner when they have met the conditions required for a parole, that is why the parole board could never tell her strait up, were never gonna let you out, so stop even asking us

[Adalena935]

You are right, but her original sentence was the death penalty. She's lucky the DP was reversed here in CA long enough for her to escape it. Or not escape it, depending on how you view her current circumstances. jmo

O sure I meant after the SC commuted the DP for all death row prisoners. I think the manson family members were elated to have their sentences overturned.

[Adalena935]

Read this (please) and tell me what you think.

http://www.susanatkins.org/6-Myth.html

Thank you for the link. I will read it and let you know what I think of it when I'm finished.

[doctor_J]

Okay, I read the book that was linked. Susan Atkins is wrong! She had options and CHOSE to remain with the Manson cult. SA says many times she stayed because she had nowhere else to go. That's BS.

One thing I noticed throughout the whole tome Susan Atkins STILL blames others for the choices SHE made. She takes little to no responsibility for her actions. In the end, Susan makes a long list of why Linda Kasabian is as culpable. However, Linda Kasabian was given immunity for the testimony. Hey Susan Atkins, your parole does not hinge on anyone else but YOU! Obviously, YOU never learned that. Therefore, are YOU genuinely rehabilitated? I don't believe you are.

I do not believe SA should be paroled. That said, I do not believe in judicially mandated death penalty.

Boy do I agree. I read the book linked. Before reading that, I was leaning toward compassion. Now, no way. She takes NO responsibility. She has a well thought out excuse for every bad decision she ever made. She explains past lies with more lies and then says she is telling the truth. It defies explanation that she can attempt to shift ALL responsibility to Manson even after nearly 40 years. UGH! I'm glad I read that book. All this time I thought she was remorseful. She's only remorseful for not outwitting Bugliosi. Keep her locked up and away from her Manson groupie hubbie until he can bury her.

[doctor_J]

I want to emphasize how repulsed I was when reading Atkin's book when she continually excused all her actions by claiming she was fearful for her prematurely born son, whom she had offered up to Manson from his birth until he was finally rescued by the State. She's just a loving mother, after all. UGH, again. Nothing I've read in a long time has evoked such strong revulsion in me as her words describing the events that defined her life. This, offered, AFTER, she has served 37 years of exemplary confinement and rehabilitation courtesy of the State of California. Was I ever misinformed about her rehab and remorse, blah, blah. And to think I was going to speak for compassion. UGH!

[doctor_J]

When I first heard of the request by Atkins and her Attorney - I did access that blog (put up by the Attorney). I read her "story" as she had written it.

Self Serving is putting it mildly. No, she should not "go home to die". That is my opinion. Perhaps those who feel differently should check out the site of Real Crime Photos. And take a look at what she did to Sharon Tate.

Earthly Justice is what she is serving. What happens after that, of course, is not ours to say.

All her parole supporters need to do is read her book. That's what changed my mind. She needs to die in prison, and that won't be nearly enough.

[Adalena935]

Prosecutors could never show anything that proved that Manson was physically involved in anyone's death. Of course, we know he did cut Hinman's ear.

There is no doubt he's the spawn of Satan, but Susan is just as guilty.

They placed Manson inside the LaBianca residence. They were bound with his leather thongs. He went in first, bound them and put pillow cases over their heads.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/manson/mansonsummation.html

Closing Argument
The State of California v. Charles Manson) et al.
Delivered by Vincent Bugliosi
Los Angeles, California, January 15, 1971

[Adalena935]

appears she was denied release on Friday, so she will die where she is, you all that wanted that can now be happy

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/susan-atkins-denied-parole-compassionate-release

Nobody asked her to come into the judicial system. get a grip.

[Adalena935]

Really? Is this true?... If so, for me personally - "happy" isn't the way I would describe it... However, "Just" seems quite appropriate . Maybe now her victims remaing family members can sleep without one eye open.

That's a 2007 video of a compassionate parole hearing for Atkins then. (modified in '09)

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/susan-atkins-denied-parole-compassionate-release

A 2007 video

“...You will hear many arguments today, but you will hear nothing from the nine people who lie in their graves because of Susan Atkins..”

I don't know who the man was who said that. He was obviously for the state's side to keep her locked up.

Gary Hinman
Steven Parent
Wojciech Frykowski
Abigail Folger
Sharon Tate
Richard Polanski
Jay Sebring
Leno La Bianca
Rosemary La Bianca

[Adalena935]

And please, also read Helter Skelter by Vincent Bugliosi.

I agree that's a very good and concise book regarding the case. Susan Atkins is an animal.

[doctor_J]

And please, also read Helter Skelter by Vincent Bugliosi.

Read that years ago. But I had also read many reports about how she was remorseful and had taken full responsibility, etc., etc. BS. She takes NO responsibility, even on her death bed. Human scum. Blames an innocent infant for her bad, criminal choices. Blames everyone but herself. And her hatred for Bugliosi shines through in every paragraph.

[Adalena935]

When I first heard of the request by Atkins and her Attorney - I did access that blog (put up by the Attorney). I read her "story" as she had written it.

Self Serving is putting it mildly. No, she should not "go home to die". That is my opinion. Perhaps those who feel differently should check out the site of Real Crime Photos. And take a look at what she did to Sharon Tate.

Earthly Justice is what she is serving. What happens after that, of course, is not ours to say.

Thank you so much for all of that. I was going to say that. Watch what she did when she was free. Anyone can say anything when they're locked in a cage. What choice did she have to do wrong while locked in a cage after they captured her?

[Adalena935]

Read that years ago. But I had also read many reports about how she was remorseful and had taken full responsibility, etc., etc. BS. She takes NO responsibility, even on her death bed. Human scum. Blames an innocent infant for her bad, criminal choices. Blames everyone but herself. And her hatred for Bugliosi shines through in every paragraph.

An acquaintance of mine worked at Frontera. She said she'd carry her bible to parole hearings, then pitch it in the dumpster and cursed God afterward.

Watson rousted Frykowski where he rested and said, "I'm the devil, here to do the devil's work."

Atkins said the 9 month pregnant Sharon Tate was tied up. "..I told her I didn't have any mercy on her..." They said she called out for her Mother continually until the life drained out of her. Then it took time for the full-term baby boy to suffocate inside her body. They laughed about it and cavorted about how much fun they had killing them and bragged profusely to the others. Watched news of the horror on tv and gloated at the devil's work they had done.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26396401/

The devil's business

[Adalena935]

Judgmental much? You feel free to support Atkins' wish for compassionate release, I feel free to oppose it. It doesn't make me "happy." There's nothing about the Manson crimes, the people involved or the aftermath - including Atkins dying in prison - that produces "happiness." :glare:

Well said joolz. I totally agree.

[Adalena935]

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=43911626762+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

190. (a) Every person guilty of murder in the first degree shall be punished by death, imprisonment in the state prison for life without the possibility of parole, or imprisonment in the state prison for a term of 25 years to life.

This means they have to serve 25 years before they're eligible for parole hearings.

Just wanted to post the actual code for those interested.

[Adalena935]

For all eternity these people who were once alive and contributing human beings will be dead because Susan Atkins murdered them. No one can unring the bell.

100's of years from now their descendants from their family's will know they were murdered at the hands of Susan Atkins.

It's not a matter of us hating. It's not a matter of discompassion. It's a matter of fact.

These people aren't just names in a list. They were real live human beings with families, lives, interests, loved ones and friends. Friends who remember them and who's lives were enhanced because they were good decent loving kind people. Many of us are alive to remember who they were before Susan Atkins took their lives.

They did good. They helped people. If want for compassion think of them. They were compassionate and Susan Atkins killed them. Took all of their kindness toward society away forever. Changed everything for the worse.

It's not okay to simply say; "I'm okay with letting her out now. Enough time has passed."

Enough time will never pass to undo what Susan Atkins did to them and to the people's lives who they touched in so many good ways.

Just because they're nothing more than names in print to you, you have no right to make that judement for the people of the state of california. It's not okay. What she did will never be okay.

She was convicted in a court of law. She was sentenced. 40 years later she wants out & suddenly WE'RE the problem. Because of her again. Still we suffer at her hands. GIVE IT A REST. SHE MURDERED 9 LIVE HUMAN BEINGS. TORTURED THEM.

Please stop behaving as if society is the problem and lacks compassion. She's a diabolical monster who took the lives of 9 good young people. People who were denied everything because she said "...I'm okay with them being dead..", "...Hey, it's okay with me...."

It's not okay to pick up some magical eraser and wipe the slate clean. The trial's over. Give decent society some peace. Can you find compassion left over for Atkins for the rest of us.

[Adalena935]

Tracian, I think I read one of your posts where you said something to the effect that it's due to all the compassion for convicted murderers, all those who beg to have them released; is why you support the death penalty.

My sentiments too. I'm right there with you.

[poppy]

I'll go with whatever Bugliosi says because he is the expert on this case.

[doctor_J]

I'm still so incensed by her own words. Her insistance that nothing happened due to her own poor choices. She adapts her excuses to suit whatever situation that points to her. I wonder where all the "she's so remorseful, she's been a model prisoner, she's taken responsibility" ever came from. I think her Manson groupie husband/lawyer will not get the response he is hoping to get from releasing that manuscript. The whole thing was extremely offensive. I'm surprised Bugliosi would support her release, since she still calls him a liar throughout the book.

[taylor63]

I'm still so incensed by her own words. Her insistance that nothing happened due to her own poor choices. She adapts her excuses to suit whatever situation that points to her. I wonder where all the "she's so remorseful, she's been a model prisoner, she's taken responsibility" ever came from. I think her Manson groupie husband/lawyer will not get the response he is hoping to get from releasing that manuscript. The whole thing was extremely offensive. I'm surprised Bugliosi would support her release, since she still calls him a liar throughout the book.

What really got me was when she wrote 8 people were on their way to death row for "nothing". Like 9 innocent human beings weren't butchered by her and her friends? And I will never buy her claim she didn't murder poor Sharon. I think she said she didn't murder Sharon because she thought that would be her get out of jail for free card.

[Amy]

I agree, I think we should be compassionate in this case, she has done 4 decades and is on her deathbed, she is 85% paralyzed, seems inhuman not to grant her this request if for no one else, her family, I would say she has paid her debt, she is dying, she is imprisoned in her own body at this point anyways

No, she has not paid her debt. Her debt was Life in Prison.

[Amy]

Nope! Health Insurance Co.'s do not cover people while in prison. The State must provide their care. That the LAW in Calif.

IMO

I wonder if she got out, if his insurance would allow her to be on his policy? If not, the state will still be paying for her care. I don't see any insurance company agreeing to put her on a policy, but I could be wrong.

[LisaM22]

What really got me was when she wrote 8 people were on their way to death row for "nothing". Like 9 innocent human beings weren't butchered by her and her friends? And I will never buy her claim she didn't murder poor Sharon. I think she said she didn't murder Sharon because she thought that would be her get out of jail for free card.

that means they all died over Mansons fears of Bernard Crowe, which was false, so everyone died for nothing except a crazy mans fears

[LisaM22]

An acquaintance of mine worked at Frontera. She said she'd carry her bible to parole hearings, then pitch it in the dumpster and cursed God afterward. <snip>

she would have needed to have requested many bibles in order for that to happen as each one would need to be approved and stamped with her prison id number, that would be on record and we would of definitely heard about it, I think your "acquaintance" was pulling you chain and to be quite honest, I do not think the parole board cares anymore about christians then any other faith, that is not on their list of concerns

[Lavinia]

if they are terminal ill, gonna die in a few months and 85% parallelized and costing tax payers millions to keep them in there like she is, then I say yes

not sure what you mean by set a precedent, there was a form she needed to fill out to request this, it was already there, all a inmate that is dying has to do is request it

If an inmate gets the DP or LWOP, that means they die in prison. Are you wanting to reform that? Do people get LWOP unless they have a brain tumor? Do they get a pass if they have brittle diabetes? Lung cancer, lymphoma, HIV? Okay, then at what stage? When they require round the clock nursing? (Don't forget it is not unheard of for hospice patients to get well enough to leave hospice.) Must they be remorseful? For how long? Should there be in place a private health care policy before allowing a commutation? If so, only the relatively well of can go home, right?

[Lavinia]

I wonder if she got out, if his insurance would allow her to be on his policy? If not, the state will still be paying for her care. I don't see any insurance company agreeing to put her on a policy, but I could be wrong.

I seriously doubt if she is on anyone's policy except the state of CA. Amy. Inmates don't need insurance and once she became ill, she had one heck of a pre-existing condition. I am dubious about a private policy.

[aproudmom]

I agree with you 100%! Enough said.

I also agree and will stop at that or I may just end up in band camp

[YoYo]

appears she was denied release on Friday, so she will die where she is, you all that wanted that can now be happy

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/susan-atkins-denied-parole-compassionate-release

"You all that wanted that can now be happy"...........who are you to judge any of us? MO

[LisaM22]

If an inmate gets the DP or LWOP, that means they die in prison. Are you wanting to reform that? Do people get LWOP unless they have a brain tumor? Do they get a pass if they have brittle diabetes? Lung cancer, lymphoma, HIV? Okay, then at what stage? When they require round the clock nursing? (Don't forget it is not unheard of for hospice patients to get well enough to leave hospice.) Must they be remorseful? For how long? Should there be in place a private health care policy before allowing a commutation? If so, only the relatively well of can go home, right?

she was serving life not lwop, that has already been discused

[LisaM22]

"You all that wanted that can now be happy"...........who are you to judge any of us? MO

not judging anyone, where did I judge you in that post? I was just stating the facts as the article stated, if you wanted her to die in prison, you can be happy now as it appears that is what will happen

[YoYo]

not judging anyone, where did I judge you in that post? I was just stating the facts as the article stated, if you wanted her to die in prison, you can be happy now as it appears that is what will happen

"You can be happy now" = your words - not from the article (video).

[Tracian]

she did not get lwop, she got life, there is a difference


She was sentanced to death, it was repealed, and then it was life with parole; the DP was reinstated, but she was spared that.

'Life' means that maybe you can get parole, maybe not.

She is a 'not'.

[Tracian]

you brought up karma, I was just giving an alternative scenario, she got into drugs, had she killed tate or not I do not know, she was there, she participated in the before and after and is guilty in that aspect if no other, she made some major mistakes, I am just saying we could of shown a little compassion during her final days as she is dieing



Well, IMO, I have about as much compassion for her, as I had in history when I learned that Hitler killed himself; or that I have for Nazis being found years later and brought to justice.

IMO, you get out of life what you put into it; If one wants compassion, butchering seven people is not the way to get it.

[LisaM22]

She was sentanced to death, it was repealed, and then it was life with parole; the DP was reinstated, but she was spared that.

'Life' means that maybe you can get parole, maybe not.

She is a 'not'.

not because she was not a model prisoner, the parole board did not give her a chance, there was nothing she could of done to get a parole, but that is ok, I would not have paroled her either, I would though of offered her and her family a compassionate release in the state she is in now

[Tracian]

not because she was not a model prisoner, the parole board did not give her a chance, there was nothing she could of done to get a parole, but that is ok, I would not have paroled her either, I would though of offered her and her family a compassionate release in the state she is in now



IMO, she is paying the price that she should have faced years ago.

[museumgirl]

Here's what I see... she has spent most of her life in prison, she's dying... she is not a threat to anyone. Why don't they use that cell for some ******* who is out preying on children???

I know what she did (read every book I could find on it) and agree that she deserved to rot in prison. And she has. But you get people now who rape and murder kids and get very little time at all and are released back to the public knowing full well they are a danger to society ... but that's okay???

To release her to her family now is not going to be a ton of fun to her.. she's dying... a painful death. She's not going to be out doing the network circuit, shopping sprees or partying...

[Tracian]

Here's what I see... she has spent most of her life in prison, she's dying... she is not a threat to anyone. Why don't they use that cell for some ******* who is out preying on children???

I know what she did (read every book I could find on it) and agree that she deserved to rot in prison. And she has. But you get people now who rape and murder kids and get very little time at all and are released back to the public knowing full well they are a danger to society ... but that's okay???

To release her to her family now is not going to be a ton of fun to her.. she's dying... a painful death. She's not going to be out doing the network circuit, shopping sprees or partying...



If she is that sick, she is not in a cell, she is in the hospital ward of the prison.

Why not let her out? IMO, this is what she deserves, not to have any more comfort than she has right now.

As far as others that commit horrible crimes, and get out of prison early for whatever idiotic reason..I don't agree with that either.

[Amy]

I seriously doubt if she is on anyone's policy except the state of CA. Amy. Inmates don't need insurance and once she became ill, she had one heck of a pre-existing condition. I am dubious about a private policy.

The question was, if she would be released? A point of her release seemed to be related to the fact that the state is paying her medical care, which would seem to be that, once she is released, the state would no longer have to pay.

IF she was released, would she be able to get on her husband's insurance policy? I don't think any insurance would want to take that on. And, if no insurance would be willing to cover her, would she just be like regular Joe Blows and just have to do without? Or, would she be eligible for Medicare, MediCal or whatever? And, if so, the state would STILL be paying her medical costs. IF that would be the case, why bother to release her? (On the basis of medical coverage by the state.)

[Lavinia]

she was serving life not lwop, that has already been discused

Okay, draw and quarter me. She got life. Looks like she's going to get a back door parole.

[courtsinsession]

Here's what I see... she has spent most of her life in prison, she's dying... she is not a threat to anyone. Why don't they use that cell for some ******* who is out preying on children???

I know what she did (read every book I could find on it) and agree that she deserved to rot in prison. And she has. But you get people now who rape and murder kids and get very little time at all and are released back to the public knowing full well they are a danger to society ... but that's okay???

To release her to her family now is not going to be a ton of fun to her.. she's dying... a painful death. She's not going to be out doing the network circuit, shopping sprees or partying...

well now, ya never know; in the type of society we live in today you could expect several reporters to be there when she would be released from prison; then the story would be all over the internet, on all the cable stations who are dying for crumbs of stories like this to keep them going; Nancy Grace might even like this one and then of course there is Oprah or someone else who might want a death - bed story from Ms. Atkins. Please, just leave her where she is, where she belongs until she takes her last breath.

[Pretty Leaf]

Let her rot and then she can be turned away at the Pearly Gates.

[NatalieB]

Read this (please) and tell me what you think.

http://www.susanatkins.org/6-Myth.html

Boy, that was quite a long read, but I finally managed to get thru it all. I copied the book to a word document so that I didn't have to keep scrolling off the side of the page and I'd recommend everyone do so if they're planning on reading it.

I have to say, it really did offer some insights into the happenings at the time. I certainly don't want to take Susan Atkins word as fact for the crimes committed, but the timeline of events really explains the situation much more than, "Helter Skelter" ever did. I always thought the Tate residence was chosen because of, Terry Melcher (Doris Day's son) since he had recently moved from the residence. I'm rethinking that motive after having read this.

I'd like to go back and read some of the past articles/transcripts again to see how it plays out with Susan's version of the story here. I too feel like she wanted to place the blame more at the hands of Manson than taking responsibility for the crimes she committed herself. I would LOVE to read the transcripts of her grand jury testimony.

After having read this, I'm anxious to re-read other things to compare and contrast. One thing I did notice though that in this book, Susan wasn't very consistent with her own story where many issues are concerned. She contradicted herself time and time again. Could it be because it wasn't written by her and the writer just left gaps because all the details weren't known?

One last point is, these murders were horrendous in nature. How she put not accountability on any beside Manson just blows my mind. Manson wasn't stabbing and shooting people to death, yet, right before her eyes, this was all playing out and she never once tosses the blame anywhere but at Manson's feet? I just buy into that.

It was interesting though, I'll say that.

[LisaM22]

The question was, if she would be released? A point of her release seemed to be related to the fact that the state is paying her medical care, which would seem to be that, once she is released, the state would no longer have to pay.

IF she was released, would she be able to get on her husband's insurance policy? I don't think any insurance would want to take that on. And, if no insurance would be willing to cover her, would she just be like regular Joe Blows and just have to do without? Or, would she be eligible for Medicare, MediCal or whatever? And, if so, the state would STILL be paying her medical costs. IF that would be the case, why bother to release her? (On the basis of medical coverage by the state.)

depend on how financially well off her attorney husband is, she woudl not qualify for aid if he is too wealthy, I think the DA probably knows this best and he was recommending release

[LisaM22]

Okay, draw and quarter me. She got life. Looks like she's going to get a back door parole.

she was denied a parole last Friday per the link I posted earlier, so doesn't look like she will be given a compassionate release from the parole board

[NatalieB]

Another thing I'd like to add is, it was at one of Susan's last parole hearings (before her medical condition spiraled downhill), someone stood up and read a letter that Susan had sent. In that letter, Susan Atkins stated that she was not sorry about anything she'd done in her past. I believe the person addressing the board was Debra (Sharon's only living sister and from here on in, I will say it was Debra when in fact, it may have been someone else, but I don't think it was). I'm not sure how Debra got her hands on that letter, but someone must have sent it to her.

Anyway, Debra addressed the board saying, I've done a lot of things in my life that I regret doing. She then addressed the board and said, I'm sure you've all done things in your life that you regret. But, here sits Susan Atkins. She has no regrets for anything she's ever done.

Debra then says, this wasn't a letter Susan sent out when she was younger, this letter was sent just 6 short months ago! She then handed the letter over to the board.

[Suburban]

she was denied a parole last Friday per the link I posted earlier, so doesn't look like she will be given a compassionate release from the parole board




She's already been turned down for a Compassionate Release. She goes for another parole hearing Sept. 2nd. August will be 40yrs since these heinous crimes were commited, it will be all over the news again, more than likely she will be turned down.

[emdragon]

Respectfully, I disagree 100%. That said, I DO believe that we as a society show we have much more compassion than people like SA all the time. Otherwise, she would not be alive all these years later to attempt to pull at our heartstrings.

I have no problem with her being disappointed she can't die outside prison. The people she helped slaughter had comitted no crime, were not infriging on anyones rights and begged in vain to have their lives spared. She showed no mercy and participated in their slaughter. She ignored their screams, pleas, terror and pain that she assisted in administering - even knowing an innocent unborn child was being murdered.

I don't understand how you can say she has been punished, and has suffered longer than her victims... Are you kidding me ??? They are dead and have been for a long time... They have families that have to live with knowing their loved ones went through unimaginable horror. I don't understand how you can say give someone like this a "pass" so they can go off and die in "peace and comfort".

Give me a break. IMO of course.

She has been "punished" by sitting in prison for decades.
She has been "punished" by her own body turning against her.
She has suffered "longer" because cancer has been eating away at her slowly and painfully.

I am in no way a Susan Atkins apologist, I have always felt she was the worst of the bunch aside from Manson himself.

But at this point in time i see no reason not to let the people of CA off the hook and let her go die at home.

And if it would make you feel better they can let her go to WA or OR where there is assisted suicide and she can end it herself.


Now logically and realistically the truth is The Manson family are still sitting in Prison because of who they are and who they killed.
Most of the people on CA's death row who had their sentences commuted have been paroled.

Would I say let a healthy Susan Atkins out? Hell no

But I do believe Leslie Van Houten does understand the horror of her crime and takes responsibility and might deserve a shot at Parole.

And just a question for those who honestly feel Manson had no control over these people, and didn't bend them to his will- do you believe the people of Jones Town all wanted to die? That they wanted their families to die?
There are people who have an evil ability to manipulate others- and there are people who are susceptible to that manipulation.

[Marcia3]

When I think "old woman, dying, 85% paralyzed", I think "compassionate release".

I lived and grew up near where and when all this occured.

When I remember:

Susan Atkins stabbed pregnant Sharon Tate 16 times, and drank Sharon's blood, and used Sharon's own blood to scrawl the word "Pig" on the door.

When I remember learning that Susan Atkins told Sharon Tate "Woman, I have no mercy for you"

When I remember that Susan Atkins testified in court that she stabbed Sharon Tate, because she was, "sick of listening to her, pleading and begging, begging and pleading".

When I remember the sheer barbarity of these crimes, the lack of COMPASSION these perps held for their victims. The cruelness with which they carried out these crimes.

When I remember those things, I cannot agree with any "compassionate release" for any of them.

That does not lower me to their level. That does not make me the animal they are. That does not make me cruel. That does not me me "no better than she is". (In my mind it is laugably absurd to equate being against their compassionate release as being "like" them or "no better than them" - completely ridiculous! To equate someone wanting them to serve their sentence for what they did, as being as cruel and barbaric as they were when they commited these crimes has to be some kind of joke - quit kidding me!).

Perhaps the passage of time since she was imprisoned have changed her. Perhaps she has "converted". If so, then she can continue serving others while in prison and be thankful she got to live at all after what she did. She isn't in prison for those things she does while in prison - she is in prison for the barbaric things she did to other human beings outside of prison. And who knows how she would be as a person if she was never caught. Maybe she'd have become a "better person". Or maybe not - maybe it is the trappings of life in a cell that have allowed her to reflect and change. Who knows? In my mind - how she behaves in prison is not part of my equation when I come to my own personal opinion of whether I support "compassionate release" for her.

Susan Atkins basically was "fluked" into not receiving the death penatly. She deserved "the chair", and should have visited it long ago. She was commuted to life. And she should serve every minute of that sentence. For some, "life" should mean "life". She is one of them.

JMO
Martek


Beautifully stated, Martek, and ITA with every word.

[taylor63]

The question was, if she would be released? A point of her release seemed to be related to the fact that the state is paying her medical care, which would seem to be that, once she is released, the state would no longer have to pay.

IF she was released, would she be able to get on her husband's insurance policy? I don't think any insurance would want to take that on. And, if no insurance would be willing to cover her, would she just be like regular Joe Blows and just have to do without? Or, would she be eligible for Medicare, MediCal or whatever? And, if so, the state would STILL be paying her medical costs. IF that would be the case, why bother to release her? (On the basis of medical coverage by the state.)

I would think she would be eligible for Medicaid and Medicare because she has no type of income herself.

[emdragon]

If you read the link that was posted earlier, Susan Atkins seems to be pretty irritated about it. She post a long list of reasons Linda Kasabian is just as culpable, yet received immunity.


Susan is bitter because she was given the same deal and she changed her story giving the Prosecutors a way out which they took by giving the deal to Linda who had not physically killed anyone-

Susan herself gave them the opportunity to take the lesser of two evils so to speak, it is her own fault Linda isn't sitting in prison with the rest of them.

[Anakerie]

she was denied a parole last Friday per the link I posted earlier, so doesn't look like she will be given a compassionate release from the parole board
The link you posted earlier was a new posting of a video done last year. There has been no hearing this year. Apparently you missed my post about her parole hearing being postponed until September.. In that post I also made mention of that being an OLD video and gave you a link to the television station that the video came from. IT DID NOT HAPPEN LAST WEEK. IT HAPPENED LAST YEAR.

[LisaM22]

Another thing I'd like to add is, it was at one of Susan's last parole hearings (before her medical condition spiraled downhill), someone stood up and read a letter that Susan had sent. In that letter, Susan Atkins stated that she was not sorry about anything she'd done in her past. I believe the person addressing the board was Debra (Sharon's only living sister and from here on in, I will say it was Debra when in fact, it may have been someone else, but I don't think it was). I'm not sure how Debra got her hands on that letter, but someone must have sent it to her.

Anyway, Debra addressed the board saying, I've done a lot of things in my life that I regret doing. She then addressed the board and said, I'm sure you've all done things in your life that you regret. But, here sits Susan Atkins. She has no regrets for anything she's ever done.

Debra then says, this wasn't a letter Susan sent out when she was younger, this letter was sent just 6 short months ago! She then handed the letter over to the board.


you have a link to this claim, not finding anything on the Internet about it? where did you hear this?

[Suburban]

She was denied July 15th of last year


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25692507/

[NatalieB]

you have a link to this claim, not finding anything on the Internet about it? where did you hear this?

I watched the actual parole hearing on youtube.

[taylor63]

She has been "punished" by sitting in prison for decades.
She has been "punished" by her own body turning against her.
She has suffered "longer" because cancer has been eating away at her slowly and painfully.

I am in no way a Susan Atkins apologist, I have always felt she was the worst of the bunch aside from Manson himself.

But at this point in time i see no reason not to let the people of CA off the hook and let her go die at home.

And if it would make you feel better they can let her go to WA or OR where there is assisted suicide and she can end it herself.


Now logically and realistically the truth is The Manson family are still sitting in Prison because of who they are and who they killed.
Most of the people on CA's death row who had their sentences commuted have been paroled.

Would I say let a healthy Susan Atkins out? Hell no

But I do believe Leslie Van Houten does understand the horror of her crime and takes responsibility and might deserve a shot at Parole.

And just a question for those who honestly feel Manson had no control over these people, and didn't bend them to his will- do you believe the people of Jones Town all wanted to die? That they wanted their families to die?
There are people who have an evil ability to manipulate others- and there are people who are susceptible to that manipulation.

I am a Christian woman, I do feel compassion and mercy for her especially if she is in alot of pain. However,I am not so sure I support her release from where she is right now at a hospital. Her family wants to be with her now. I understand and sympathize with them greatly,but can't they visit her in the hospital anytime? Even if she was released, how would her circumstances be much different than they are right now wouldn't she have to be in some sort of a medical facility like a hospital or a hospice?

Also,I thought Susan was remorseful for her crimes. I was unaware of this book she wrote,I was very disturbed by some of the things she said. I agree with doctorj it just seems to me at least from what I have read that she is trying her best to minimize the brutality and viciousness of her crimes and make it look like she is a victim too when the only real victims were the people that were murdered.

I believe God can forgive any sin if we truly repent and just confess and ask for forgivness and mercy, by trusting and believing in His son Jesus. But I also believe sometimes we have to suffer the consequences of our actions,and that is sadly what is happening to Ms. Atkins right now.

[Anakerie]

I watched the actual parole hearing on youtube.
Same here... There is a person named bretg78 (http://www.youtube.com/user/bretg78) that posts just about all the Manson family videos on youtube as well as on his own website. He keeps track of the whole Manson "family".
http://www.mansonfamilytoday.info/manson.htm

[Suburban]

Do I think she should be let out to die...NO...I don't think 39yrs of incarceration is enough. THEY chose to do this, I don't buy the whole Charlie made me do it excuse.

I was unfortunate enough to actually share space with those Cold-Hearted killers. They were allowed to walk the campus (that's what CIW looks like) When I was first incarcerated, I too was going to church there. my roomie took me & there in the back of the church was Susan Atkins, I actually thought the building was gonna burn down.

They had their jobs. Patricia Krenwinkle was a physical fitness trainer for fire camp, I've read that now she trains dogs for the handicapped. Leslie Van Houten works in the front office & I'm not sure what Susan did, I probably only seen her 4 or 5 times in the 2yrs I was there.

At the beginning, they were living in what's now part of the Reception Center (where they figure out what there gonna do with you) On one of my 30 day dryouts, I was housed in what they called Deep Six. You could still feel the evil in that part. It's cold & eerie.

I guess enough time has passed that most people don't even know who they are anymore. There are alot of lifers at CIW. Some of them live in Miller A, which is for "exceptional acting lifers." Leslie & Patricia live in this housing, they can pretty much decorate their rooms as they see fit, so don't think they are living in cold, dark conditions. I don't thnk they talked to Susan after they got there, I NEVER seen all three together.

Susan is not there anymore, she's laying in a hospital bed at Central California Woman's Facility in Chowchilla more than likely handcuffed to the bed with guards sitting outside. A Web site maintained by her husband and attorney, James Whitehouse, says Atkins is now paralyzed over 85 percent of her body and cannot sit up in bed or even be moved into a wheelchair.

Should they unhook her from the IV that's giving her pain meds....YES!! Why should she get to rest comfortably? She should've been put to death years ago, I don't understand why they didn't reactivate the death penalty on these people when CA reinstated the death penalty. They would rather make the people of CA pay for keeping them in prison. I had always heard though that as long as they make Folgers coffee, they will never be released, which I think is great. They are all older than the oldest person they killed now.

Let them live out there days where they are.

[Snoopy50]

Now logically and realistically the truth is The Manson family are still sitting in Prison because of who they are and who they killed.
Most of the people on CA's death row who had their sentences commuted have been paroled.

Would I say let a healthy Susan Atkins out? Hell no

But I do believe Leslie Van Houten does understand the horror of her crime and takes responsibility and might deserve a shot at Parole.

And just a question for those who honestly feel Manson had no control over these people, and didn't bend them to his will- do you believe the people of Jones Town all wanted to die? That they wanted their families to die?
There are people who have an evil ability to manipulate others- and there are people who are susceptible to that manipulation.[/QUOTE]
Snipped:
From Emsdragon


I disagree with your opinion that she should ever get out, frankly, I do not have the slightest sympathy for her suffering. The families whose loved ones she murdered have lived a life sentence and so should Susan Atkins.
Do do, however, agree with your assessment of allowing parole for Leslie van Houten as there are extenuating circumstances where she is concerned. She is the ONLY Manson family member who have steadily shown remorse and has made a true contribution in prison. At the time of these crimes, Leslie was reeling from her parents divorce and while searching for a respite from her emotional pain, managed to get sucked into the Manson world of drugs and craziness. Up until that point, she had been a good kid. All of this does not negate her crimes, but I believe it does give sound reason why she should be freed. The rest of them need to stay right where they are until they leave in a body bag IMO.

[Adalena935]

Another thing I'd like to add is, it was at one of Susan's last parole hearings (before her medical condition spiraled downhill), someone stood up and read a letter that Susan had sent. In that letter, Susan Atkins stated that she was not sorry about anything she'd done in her past. I believe the person addressing the board was Debra (Sharon's only living sister and from here on in, I will say it was Debra when in fact, it may have been someone else, but I don't think it was). I'm not sure how Debra got her hands on that letter, but someone must have sent it to her.

Anyway, Debra addressed the board saying, I've done a lot of things in my life that I regret doing. She then addressed the board and said, I'm sure you've all done things in your life that you regret. But, here sits Susan Atkins. She has no regrets for anything she's ever done.

Debra then says, this wasn't a letter Susan sent out when she was younger, this letter was sent just 6 short months ago! She then handed the letter over to the board.

Thanks for that NatalieB. I know many (if not all) of her parole hearings are on the net. It's a matter of googling and finding the one you reference. If I find it I'll post the link here. Sounds like par for the old murderer. She's only got one tune to whistle; bad.

[Adalena935]

Beautifully stated, Martek, and ITA with every word.

Wasn't that great. Bravo Martek!

[Philly]

I was pregnant around the time of the murders so this crime really stood out in my mind. Now I can look at my beautiful (soon-to-be 39 yr old) daughter and know that Sharon Tate is gone and her son was never born. Susan Atkins was originally given the death penalty. I never agreed with the sentence being changed to Life with the possibility of parole. Since the government will have to pay for medical expenses whether she is in prison or out - let her stay where she is - where she belongs with the rest of the scum who committed these crimes.

[Adalena935]

Some great posters here. I appreicate everyone's opinions and openness and the links that have been posted. I have some reading to do.

Wouldn't it be the greatest con if Atkins and her lawyer husband got her released only to learn she's not near death. She's such a liar. The intro to her book is enough to make one's stomach roll. I'll read thru it anyway but with a lardose of salt. I prefer what Busliosi said about her in his closing arguements; the truth.

[LisaM22]

I watched the actual parole hearing on youtube.

as did I, she read her husbands letter, not a letter from Susan Atkins

[Adalena935]

I disagree with your opinion that she should ever get out, frankly, I do not have the slightest sympathy for her suffering. The families whose loved ones she murdered have lived a life sentence and so should Susan Atkins.
Do do, however, agree with your assessment of allowing parole for Leslie van Houten as there are extenuating circumstances where she is concerned. She is the ONLY Manson family member who have steadily shown remorse and has made a true contribution in prison. At the time of these crimes, Leslie was reeling from her parents divorce and while searching for a respite from her emotional pain, managed to get sucked into the Manson world of drugs and craziness. Up until that point, she had been a good kid. All of this does not negate her crimes, but I believe it does give sound reason why she should be freed. The rest of them need to stay right where they are until they leave in a body bag IMO.

Brings new meaning to '..reeling from parent's divorce.."


begged to go on the killing spree. Envious she didn't get to goto the Tate slaughter. Tackled Rosemary La Bianca after she had wrenched herself free from multiple murderers. But thanks to ol' reeling from parent's divorce Leslie, she got her, tackled her to the floor again and helped tie her up better this time so she could be slaughtered as Leslie decided befitted her victims.

Straddled the woman's back and plunged the large knife 41(6?) times severing her spinal cord so she couldn't move. Declared it downright orgasmic. Then she got hungry and had a nice meal out of her victim's refrigerator. Yesiree, sat right down and ate at their table after helping smear blood around on the walls. Nice appetizer touch there. Other women put flowers on the table, Leslie likes to put blood on the walls. WARM blood. With the bodies still in close proximity. A regular charmer.
Used her victim's shower & bath. Dressed in her victim's clothes.

She liked it. She said she did. The only reason she's reneged is because she's trying to make nice to the parole board so she can get her own fatt @$$ out of there. All about the spinal cord-severing princess.

Chortling all the way back to the ranch after helping to ditch the bloody clothing and weapons. And crowed about her evil rampage what great fun it was to all the others for days on end. Enjoyed news coverage on television, bragging and describing gory details to the blind man.

Then lied and held silent for 1 1/2 years so her pals wouldn't be discovered in their dirty deeds. Hid her evil to her own benefit. Reason was because she's trying to hide from the law so she keep her own sorry @$$ out of prison. All about the spinal cord-severing princess.

Charming new meaning brought to the innocuous phrase; "..... reeling from her parents divorce.."

Anyone can make bogus claim of remorse once they're captured and locked in a cage. Gotta love the way she crows about her degrees. What else did she have to do locked in a cage for 40 yrs.

Not as if she's going to straddle anyone else's back and plunge her knives in them severing their spinal cord without benefit of anesthetic.
The only reason she stopped torture-killing innocents and eating their food afterword is because she was captured by the law, brought to justice & locked in a cage following her nightmarish dreadful rampage.

So many people over the years have proclaimed..she's the only one....blah ...blah....blah...blah

I know. Let's give her the most effective con trophy of the group, k?

They were sentenced equal for a reason. I find her offensive as the devil himself. moo

[joolz]

Adalena, WOW! That was the single best argument I've ever heard to keep Van Houten in prison, and I always watch her parole hearings and all the commentary!

I agree with you 100%. And I would add, even if by any remote, slim-to-none chance she is actually "reformed," frankly, I don't care. She is exactly where she belongs (actually, where she belongs is dead and buried years ago, just as her original penalty called for), and there is no reason on earth to ever let this woman walk free. Let her spend the rest of her life using whatever knowledge she has acquired to help other prisoners who actually have futures to look forward to. She forfeited that right a very long time ago.

Good thing that most kids whose parents divorce don't "reel" in the same way, isn't it? :angry:

[LisaM22]

I watched the actual parole hearing on youtube.


which one, I watched some, she read her fathers letter, but not one from sharron

I also watched some of the Manson videos, scary how much his voice sounds like someone else we know at times

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVSn0JFKtYw&feature=related

[LisaM22]

To where should this 'compassionate release' be? Susan Atkins has never stepped foot into the home to which they want her released. She has never attended a family gathering with those to whom she is requesting the 'compassionate release'.

Susan Atkin's 'home' was the cult Family of Manson. Where ever they lived was her home. She chose it so.

her brother and husband would like to be by her side when she dies

[LisaM22]

"Charles Mansons View on Women"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9kT47PlLS0&NR=1

[Adalena935]

To where should this 'compassionate release' be? Susan Atkins has never stepped foot into the home to which they want her released. She has never attended a family gathering with those to whom she is requesting the 'compassionate release'.

Susan Atkin's 'home' was the cult Family of Manson. Where ever they lived was her home. She chose it so.

This is a short synopsis of her 2005 parole hearing (transcript linked at bottom). In it she says she wants to live in the Los Angeles area (scene of her crime spree). Where she hopes to work at her husband's law firm.

So if her hubby is in Los Angeles area I suppose that would be her choice now too. I've seen some of the truely deranged followers on tv still loyal to Manson and arranging their residences near proximity to one another and Manson. maybe if Atkins gets released they could do a luncheon at her place in Los Angeles. Even if she is sick, the rest of them aren't.

They're out there and in my estimation have not changed. All we need is one of the faithrul to get loose and it may be like a match on a tinder box.

[LisaM22]

Charles Manson Speaks"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIfGj_55FHI&feature=related

[Tracian]

her brother and husband would like to be by her side when she dies

I am sure that her victims would have liked to have loved ones at their side as well.

[Adalena935]

her brother and husband would like to be by her side when she dies

When she was murdering her victims she knew she was doing wrong. When she planned their murders she knew it was against our laws.
When she was killing others, she knew she would die one day also as nature has it's way with all of us.

Are we supposed to believe she's surprised? Are we supposed to be surprised? All humans die Lisa. Atkins knows this better than most.

Since she chose to go out of her way to put herself in the prison system, maybe she should figure it out herself. When it came to others dying she didn't have any trouble making them die alone. So right there, she's got more education in the dying dept than the rest of us.

I don't believe you're worried.

[Amused]

I say let her out.

I'm sick of paying millions for the medical care of scum.
Put her on home confinement. Strap on an ankle bracelet and let her fend for herself. Yuck.

[Adalena935]

Someone else talked about this during this discussion; There are people in this country who can only dream of being so well-tended as this old depraved Atkins. The arguement that we should be more compassionate toward her doesn't hold up.

If she were sorry she should be glad to pay for her deeds and never ask for more. Obviously that doesn't hold up either, that she's sorry. She's sorry she got caught.

my opinion

[LisaM22]

I am sure that her victims would have liked to have loved ones at their side as well.

sure they would, but her brother and husband are not the ones being punished here

[LisaM22]

Someone else talked about this during this discussion; There are people in this country who can only dream of being so well-tended as this old depraved Atkins. The arguement that we should be more compassionate toward her doesn't hold up.

If she were sorry she should be glad to pay for her deeds and never ask for more. Obviously that doesn't hold up either, that she's sorry. She's sorry she got caught.

my opinion

most of the money went for guards, she is getting the minimal treatment at the highest cost in prison, on the outside they may have tried to save her leg, in there they removed it, she has requested a wheel chair and was denied.. if it was so great everyone would shoplift to get this great treatment you refer too - be nice when we have universal health care so everyone will get the care they need

[Adalena935]

I am sure that her victims would have liked to have loved ones at their side as well.

It's said Sharon Tate cried out for her Mother continually until she was dead. Atkins knows crying out for comfort at time of death is all I can say.

My husband's been in the hospital a lot in recent years. Believe me they get the same care and comfort free gratis, that he toiled his whole life to earn honorably.

The arguement that society should show her more compassion is without merit.

[Tracian]

sure they would, but her brother and husband are not the ones being punished here


That is unfortunate. Her brother can not help being her brother; her husband on the other hand, well he knew what he was signing on for when he married this murderess.

I am sure that there are many family members of people in prison, that suffer; but again the blame is not on the prison system, they are being 'punished' by the very person that committed the crime in the first place.

[Adalena935]

most of the money went for guards, she is getting the minimal treatment at the highest cost in prison, on the outside they may have tried to save her leg, in there they removed it, she has requested a wheel chair and was denied.. if it was so great everyone would shoplift to get this great treatment you refer too - be nice when we have universal health care so everyone will get the care they need

You said her hearing was last Friday too.

[Tracian]

most of the money went for guards, she is getting the minimal treatment at the highest cost in prison, on the outside they may have tried to save her leg, in there they removed it, she has requested a wheel chair and was denied.. if it was so great everyone would shoplift to get this great treatment you refer too - be nice when we have universal health care so everyone will get the care they need


I am not saying it is great, but I seriously doubt that her care is substandard, because the ACLU would be there beating down the legal system if that was the case.

[YoYo]

most of the money went for guards, she is getting the minimal treatment at the highest cost in prison, on the outside they may have tried to save her leg, in there they removed it, she has requested a wheel chair and was denied.. if it was so great everyone would shoplift to get this great treatment you refer too - be nice when we have universal health care so everyone will get the care they need

Do you really understand what you'll be entitled to under universal health care? MINIMAL TREATMENT.

[LisaM22]

That is unfortunate. Her brother can not help being her brother; her husband on the other hand, well he knew what he was signing on for when he married this murderess.

I am sure that there are many family members of people in prison, that suffer; but again the blame is not on the prison system, they are being 'punished' by the very person that committed the crime in the first place.

I agree with you there, her husband knew what he was signing up for, the brother did not

[LisaM22]

Do you really understand what you'll be entitled to under universal health care? MINIMAL TREATMENT.

you will be able to pick whatever doctor you want, just like you can today, its universal insurance, not a replacement of the health care system as we know it

[LisaM22]

You said her hearing was last Friday too.

that is what the news link I posted said, is that not true?

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/susan-atkins-denied-parole-compassionate-release

[Suburban]

She was supposed to have a Parole Hearing on May 28th, it was put off till Sept 2nd.

[True2Blues]

That is unfortunate. Her brother can not help being her brother; her husband on the other hand, well he knew what he was signing on for when he married this murderess.

I am sure that there are many family members of people in prison, that suffer; but again the blame is not on the prison system, they are being 'punished' by the very person that committed the crime in the first place.

Right. She deserves exactly the amount of mercy she showed the innocent people she murdered.

[Anakerie]

that is what the news link I posted said, is that not true?

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/susan-atkins-denied-parole-compassionate-release

I'll say it again (for the THIRD time). That video is from LAST YEAR.

If you don't believe me, go to the channel 13 website yourself and search for that video.

http://cbs13.com/


ETA: I'm beginning to think that Lisa has me on ignore... **sigh**

Adding another little idea here.. Lisa, if you are reading this post, go to your link and click on the YouTube symbol in the video and go to YouTube to watch it.. Then look at the date it was added to YouTube by bretg78. JULY 30, 2008

[Suburban]

She was denied July 15th of last year


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25692507/


Let's try this again

[LisaM22]

She was supposed to have a Parole Hearing on May 28th, it was put off till Sept 2nd.

good deal, if I was her I would make them take me to the hearing no matter her condition, they need to see her to have any sympathy for her I think

[LisaM22]

I'll say it again (for the THIRD time). That video is from LAST YEAR.

If you don't believe me, go to the channel 13 website yourself and search for that video.

http://cbs13.com/


ETA: I'm beginning to think that Lisa has me on ignore... **sigh**

Adding another little idea here.. Lisa, if you are reading this post, go to your link and click on the YouTube symbol in the video and go to YouTube to watch it.. Then look at the date it was added to YouTube by bretg78. JULY 30, 2008

thanks....

[Anakerie]

thanks....
You're welcome.

[Suburban]

good deal, if I was her I would make them take me to the hearing no matter her condition, they need to see her to have any sympathy for her I think


According to her husband, she was supposed to pass away before Christmas, here we are June of next year & she's still alive.

[True2Blues]

Besides the fact that she deserves to rot - releasing her makes absolutely no sense.

She isn't in a prison as we know it. She's in a DOC skilled nursing facility, apparently receiving excellent care. She can't move and needs round the clock nursing care as well as security.

If they release her, where will she go? She'll only end up in another nursing home on the government's dime.

There's a political agenda here.


imo

Well, that's just it, the state will still have to pay for her and she's still a cold blooded murderer. She's right where she needs to be.

[True2Blues]

good deal, if I was her I would make them take me to the hearing no matter her condition, they need to see her to have any sympathy for her I think

I'd still have sympathy for her victims. They had no say over what happened to them, she had the choice not to be a murderer. She made both choices and she's where she belongs.

[LisaM22]

I'd still have sympathy for her victims. They had no say over what happened to them, she had the choice not to be a murderer. She made both choices and she's where she belongs.

as should we all give the victims and their families our sympathy , that is a given, I think Manson was the monster, the others were just stupid brain washed kids at the time, it's not like Susan will get out and have a life after all these decades, she is on the way out, her time is almost done here - not defending her actions, she spent her life in prison for whatever part she played in this, she will not be getting off scott free just because we let her die at home where family can say their goodbyes

[Suburban]

Yes but why is the husband making such an issue over her being paroled?

Something is wrong with this story.


imo



Maybe he really thinks he can take care of her by himself with only the help of her family???


JMO

[True2Blues]

Yes but why is the husband making such an issue over her being paroled?

Something is wrong with this story.


imo


That's a good question. I don't know the answer, but I do she's gotten more compassion than she deserves. When the DP was outlawed and she and her murdering family ended up with Life and the possibility of parole, they got a break not one of them should have had.

[True2Blues]

Maybe he really thinks he can take care of her by himself with only the help of her family???


JMO

Then that should be added to their plea for compassion, "I will provide all of the money for her care." and then it should still be refused.

[Suburban]

That's a good question. I don't know the answer, but I do she's gotten more compassion than she deserves. When the DP was outlawed and she and her murdering family ended up with Life and the possibility of parole, they got a break not one of them should have had.



They'd more than likely still be alive anyways.....California is no where near Texas when it comes to executing someone.

[Suburban]

Then that should be added to their plea for compassion, "I will provide all of the money for her care." and then it should still be refused.


I highly, highly doubt they'll let her out. like I said before, August will be 40yrs....It'll be all over the news again.



JMO

[LisaM22]

Besides the fact that she deserves to rot - releasing her makes absolutely no sense.

She isn't in a prison as we know it. She's in a DOC skilled nursing facility, apparently receiving excellent care. She can't move and needs round the clock nursing care as well as security.

If they release her, where will she go? She'll only end up in another nursing home on the government's dime.

There's a political agenda here.... Or she's not in as bad shape as her husband is saying.


imo

political agenda? what would that be? please explain... you think the state is just trying to save money? the da has already admitted that

[True2Blues]

as should we all give the victims and their families our sympathy , that is a given, I think Manson was the monster, the others were just stupid brain washed kids at the time, it's not like Susan will get out and have a lefe after all these decades, she is on the way out, her time is almost done here

I didn't mean to imply that anyone here does not have sympathy for the victims and their families. I'm sure we all do.

In my case, I have no sympathy for cold blooded murderers. Whether he was the instigator or not (and he was, and also a coward) Manson was still only one participant. Atkins was an adult and she had the ability to choose. She chose to kill, she's just as guilty as he is.

I don't buy into brainwashed as an excuse. I know they were all drugged up and all riled up, but they all put themselves in that position. They wanted to go, they wanted to kill. No one was holding their hands and forcing them to stab and torture people to death. That was their own personal choice.

[True2Blues]

They'd more than likely still be alive anyways.....California is no where near Texas when it comes to executing someone.

True enough, but there's always the possibility they might have been executed. If not, they should have been left on Death Row.

[Tracian]

Yes but why is the husband making such an issue over her being paroled?

Something is wrong with this story.


imo

IMO, he is going to try to make money off this--"The last days of a Manson Girl, her stuggles with cancer, and finding a way to forgive herself in her *last* days"

[True2Blues]

Are you old enough to remember that she called herself ***** Mae Glutz?


ETA - That is so strange that the first name is deleted. :confused:


I know she did that. I don't remember it, I was too young to care about the news when it happened, but I've read a lot on it.

It is weird that it won't show that.

[True2Blues]

IMO, he is going to try to make money off this--"The last days of a Manson Girl, her stuggles with cancer, and finding a way to forgive herself in her *last* days"

Sick, but I can believe it.

[Suburban]

True enough, but there's always the possibility they might have been executed. If not, they should have been left on Death Row.



That's one thing I don't understand, is why they didn't put them back on death row after overturning the death penalty. They were able to lead as productive of a life as you can in prison (except for Charlie of course)

[taylor63]

as should we all give the victims and their families our sympathy , that is a given, I think Manson was the monster, the others were just stupid brain washed kids at the time, it's not like Susan will get out and have a life after all these decades, she is on the way out, her time is almost done here - not defending her actions, she spent her life in prison for whatever part she played in this, she will not be getting off scott free just because we let her die at home where family can say their goodbyes

You think the murderers here were just "stupid,brainwashed" kids? You see this is where you and I disagree. Susan was 21 when she murdered people. She was an adult by any legal standards,and completely responsible for her own actions. She knew exactly what she was doing. She even laughed when she talked about butchering a pregnant woman who begged for mercy,if that isn't an evil person I don't know what is.

[True2Blues]

That's one thing I don't understand, is why they didn't put them back on death row after overturning the death penalty. They were able to lead as productive of a life as you can in prison (except for Charlie of course),

I think there was some law that stated once the DP had taken away and Life put in it's place, it couldn't be reinstated. I think there still is a law like that around, but I wouldn't guarantee it.

[LisaM22]

IMO her husband has an agenda or he is lying about her condition.

OR someone wants her parole to be an issue.

If she is as pathetic and disabled as her husband says, and she gets parole, she will only have to be moved from one nursing home to another.

What's the point?

for Susan their is no point, for the family it makes it much easier

[LisaM22]

You may be right.

The evil government wouldn't allow her to be paroled. :rolleyes:

He may already have a book deal.


imo

had not thought about that angle, could be, never know

[Tracian]

as should we all give the victims and their families our sympathy , that is a given, I think Manson was the monster, the others were just stupid brain washed kids at the time, it's not like Susan will get out and have a life after all these decades, she is on the way out, her time is almost done here - not defending her actions, she spent her life in prison for whatever part she played in this, she will not be getting off scott free just because we let her die at home where family can say their goodbyes


I disagree. This is not an act of 'stupidity' this was a sick act; I could almost buy the brainwashing if, and only if, the murderers were not so brutal.

Not all the Manson 'Family' took part in the murders; those that did enjoyed their work, and they are all right where they belong.

[Suburban]

BINGO!

I found this link.....from 2008

http://www.mahalo.com/susan-atkins

"James Whitehouse, Atkins' husband and attorney, said that his wife can't sit up in bed and should no longer be incarcerated during her dying days........"



Here's one from last Friday


http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/05/california.manson.family.hearing/index.html?iref=newssearch

[Tracian]

BINGO!

I found this link.....from 2008

http://www.mahalo.com/susan-atkins

"James Whitehouse, Atkins' husband and attorney, said that his wife can't sit up in bed and should no longer be incarcerated during her dying days........"

How long have they been married?

[LisaM22]

long but interesting, interview by Geraldo Rivera

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzIM4GGS1pI&feature=related

[Suburban]

How long have they been married?





She married a second time, in 1987, to a man 15 years her junior, James W. Whitehouse. Whitehouse earned a law degree and represented Atkins at her 2000 and 2005 parole hearings. He maintains a website dedicated to her legal representation.

[Tracian]

She married a second time, in 1987, to a man 15 years her junior, James W. Whitehouse. Whitehouse earned a law degree and represented Atkins at her 2000 and 2005 parole hearings. He maintains a website dedicated to her legal representation.

Yeah, IMO, this is not about 'love' it was a way for a young lawyer to get his name in the media.

[Suburban]

political agenda? what would that be? please explain... you think the state is just trying to save money? the da has already admitted that






In April 2002, she told a reporter of her work to discourage teenagers from idolizing Manson and her hope of someday leaving prison to live in Laguna Beach, California. In 2002, Atkins filed a lawsuit in federal court claiming that she is a "political prisoner" due to the repeated denials of her parole requests regardless of her suitability.

[True2Blues]

Yeah, IMO, this is not about 'love' it was a way for a young lawyer to get his name in the media.

I don't feel sorry for her for that either.

[Suburban]

And if she was gonna live in Laguna Beach, then I wonder if everyone moved up to Central California, cause that's where she is now, and that's quite a drive from Southern California.

[Tracian]

AND.......Here's a fantastic article from 2002. They have a lawsuit against the Bureau of Prisons with regard to her being denied parole for all these years. The suit was filed before she was ever sick.

Agenda = $$$$$$$$$$$

http://www.ocweekly.com/2002-05-02/news/all-in-the-family/2


imo


Wow...less and less this is about sympathy, and compassion; it is about poor Susan being sad and bent out of shape because she is in prison.

So much for her 'remorse'...I agree with you...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ is the motive.

[Suburban]

Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted Atkins, said he was not opposed to her release given her current condition, adding that she had paid "substantially, though not completely, for her horrendous crimes. Paying completely would mean imposing the death penalty. Bugliosi also stated that he supported her release in order to save the state money. The cost for Atkins' medical care since she was hospitalized on March 18, 2008 has reportedly surpassed $1.15 million with additional cost of over $300,000 to guard her hospital room." Bugliosi stated that he was challenging the notion that "just because Susan Atkins showed no mercy to her victims, we therefore are duty-bound to follow her inhumanity and show no mercy to her".

[Tracian]

I don't feel sorry for her for that either.


Nope, but if true he is a person of low character.

I wonder how happy he really would have been if she was granted parole when she was able to get around with no problems...betcha he would be less than pleased.

[True2Blues]

AND.......Here's a fantastic article from 2002. They have a lawsuit against the Board of Prison Terms with regard to her being denied parole for all these years. The suit was filed before she was ever sick.

Agenda = $$$$$$$$$$$

http://www.ocweekly.com/2002-05-02/news/all-in-the-family/2


imo

I hate to break it to her, but it's life with the POSSIBILITY of Parole, not the Guarantee of it. :rolleyes: She's really changed from thinking she's special, hasn't she?

[LisaM22]

Nope, but if true he is a person of low character.

I wonder how happy he really would have been if she was granted parole when she was able to get around with no problems...betcha he would be less than pleased.

probably, I doubt he is the type that likes to share a life with someone unless it can be part time - just my 2 cents as have never met the man, but not sure what other kinda person would marry a lifer in prision

[True2Blues]

Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted Atkins, said he was not opposed to her release given her current condition, adding that she had paid "substantially, though not completely, for her horrendous crimes. Paying completely would mean imposing the death penalty. Bugliosi also stated that he supported her release in order to save the state money. The cost for Atkins' medical care since she was hospitalized on March 18, 2008 has reportedly surpassed $1.15 million with additional cost of over $300,000 to guard her hospital room." Bugliosi stated that he was challenging the notion that "just because Susan Atkins showed no mercy to her victims, we therefore are duty-bound to follow her inhumanity and show no mercy to her".

I read that. Fortunately, he isn't on the parole board and there's nothing inhumane about not setting a cold blooded murderer free, just because she wants out. If LWOP had been a choice then, they would have gotten that sentence.

[LisaM22]

I read that. Fortunately, he isn't on the parole board and there's nothing inhumane about not setting a cold blooded murderer free, just because she wants out. If LWOP had been a choice then, they would have gotten that sentence.

either way she will be free before you know it, this life is almost over for her, the only ones that would benefit from her release is her family, Susan is gonna die either way

[Lavinia]

she was denied a parole last Friday per the link I posted earlier, so doesn't look like she will be given a compassionate release from the parole board

A back door parole means getting your parole by death in prison parlance.

[Adalena935]

Adalena, WOW! That was the single best argument I've ever heard to keep Van Houten in prison, and I always watch her parole hearings and all the commentary!

I agree with you 100%. And I would add, even if by any remote, slim-to-none chance she is actually "reformed," frankly, I don't care. She is exactly where she belongs (actually, where she belongs is dead and buried years ago, just as her original penalty called for), and there is no reason on earth to ever let this woman walk free. Let her spend the rest of her life using whatever knowledge she has acquired to help other prisoners who actually have futures to look forward to. She forfeited that right a very long time ago.

Good thing that most kids whose parents divorce don't "reel" in the same way, isn't it? :angry:

Yes there is no defense for any of these murderers. I agree with what you've said too. Van Houten and all of them have received more compassion from society than they ever deserved. If you read the book Helter Skelter it tells of many young people out in the desert with them who chose to leave & the girls went out on hunting parties and those attempting to flee were never seen or heard from again. It's my belief they are all guilty of many more murders than they were convicted of.

They're evil personified in my opinion. The only thing they're regretting is having been caught. Then they try to put the guilt trip on all of us. I'm not buying it. They are bad people who made evil choices because they love evil and wanted to be evil and do evil things. They did it because they loved it and I don't believe they've spent one moment (or will) in anything near remorse. They put themselves where they are.

One of the most tragic aspects is they were all young pretty women who could've done anything with their lives besides torture and kill, unprovoked. Now they have the audacity to tell us the good they've done (but only from their cages)? No!

[True2Blues]

either way she will be free before you know it, this life is almost over for her, the only ones that would benefit from her release is her family, Susan is gonna die either way

That doesn't bother me one bit. She's lived for almost 40 years that she denied an innocent woman and her unborn child. She's gone through two husbands, conjugal visits and all, run her own "ministry" in prison, making herself the center of attention. She deserved none of it. I sincerely believe that Susan Atkins will be getting the punishment she so richly deserves when she leaves this world.

It's unfortunate that her family cannot have things their way, but the only person to blame for that is Susan Atkins. Also, I have yet to see any evidence that her brother and husband will be denied the chance to be with her at the end, if it obvious that she is going to die. If it were to come suddenly, neither one of them might be at her side even in a facility of their choosing.

[LisaM22]

I think in her condition we are safe to let her out to die... its not like her family is asking to let her live outside the walls, they are asking to let her die outside the walls so they can be with her

[LisaM22]

That doesn't bother me one bit. She's lived for almost 40 years that she denied an innocent woman and her unborn child. She's gone through two husbands, conjugal visits and all, run her own "ministry" in prison, making herself the center of attention. She deserved none of it. I sincerely believe that Susan Atkins will be getting the punishment she so richly deserves when she leaves this world.

It's unfortunate that her family cannot have things their way, but the only person to blame for that is Susan Atkins. Also, I have yet to see any evidence that her brother and husband will be denied the chance to be with her at the end, if it obvious that she is going to die. If it were to come suddenly, neither one of them might be at her side even in a facility of their choosing.

she was punished in this world, she wont be punished for it in her next, she has paid her debt to society when she dies

[NatalieB]

as did I, she read her husbands letter, not a letter from Susan Atkins

I watched it some time ago, it may have even been over a year or even years since that time. So, you have a more handy link than I do. Care to share the video you watched and I can watch the ending to see if it's what I was referring to earlier?

[True2Blues]

Yes there is no defense for any of these murderers. I agree with what you've said too. Van Houten and all of them have received more compassion from society than they ever deserved. If you read the book Helter Skelter it tells of many young people out in the desert with them who chose to leave & the girls went out on hunting parties and those attempting to flee were never seen or heard from again. It's my belief they are all guilty of many more murders than they were convicted of.

They're evil personified in my opinion. The only thing they're regretting is having been caught. Then they try to put the guilt trip on all of us. I'm not buying it. They are bad people who made evil choices because they love evil and wanted to be evil and do evil things. They did it because they loved it and I don't believe they've spent one moment (or will) in anything near remorse. They put themselves where they are.

One of the most tragic aspects is they were all young pretty women who could've done anything with their lives besides torture and kill, unprovoked. Now they have the audacity to tell us the good they've done (but only from their cages)? No!

Very well said. I agree with you. Many years ago I saw parole hearings for Van Houten and Patricia Krenwinkle. Van Houten blamed it all on being young and on drugs. Personal responsibility wasn't something she wanted to admit. Krenwinkle actually broke down at one point and told the parole board that they didn't know how hard it was for her to live with what she'd done. At least she is aware and wasn't blaming anyone but herself. I still think they are where they belong. Susan Atkins too.

I'm sorry, but anyone who will murder an unborn child is more completely evil than a coward like Charles Manson ever dreamed of being. No one can force any other person to do that.

[True2Blues]

she was punished in this world, she wont be punished for it in her next, she has paid her debt to society when she dies

She hasn't paid her debt to God yet. When she leaves this world, she will.