Caylee Anthony 9/25, 9/26, 9/27

[desmom]

Docs Show Caylee Evidence Destroyed
Fingerprint Test Apparently Destroyed Evidence Of Heart Sticker On Duct Tape
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21104174/detail.html

FBI Document: http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0924/21103527.pdf

[cassidy]

Docs Show Caylee Evidence Destroyed
Fingerprint Test Apparently Destroyed Evidence Of Heart Sticker On Duct Tape
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21104174/detail.html

FBI Document: http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0924/21103527.pdf


I just read that. Wonder if they had to choose one test over the other?

[Sun]

Docs Show Caylee Evidence Destroyed
Fingerprint Test Apparently Destroyed Evidence Of Heart Sticker On Duct Tape
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21104174/detail.html

FBI Document: http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0924/21103527.pdf

There were more pages to that FBI document. Don't know why Channel 6 decided to not publish the entire document.

[desmom]

I just read that. Wonder if they had to choose one test over the other?

Could be.

We do know:

State: Duct Tape In Anthony Case 'Rare'
Prosecution Plans To Link Tape Found On Caylee's Body To Gas Can
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/20713777/detail.html
The odds of two pieces of randomly discovered duct tape manufactured in 2006 and 2007 being of that same, rare type approach 250,000 to 1. The odds of such a coincidence are much higher, if you factor in all the duct tape in existence, regardless of when it was manufactured, and determine how much duct tape sales have grown since 2002....

The FBI Laboratory in Quantico, VA, has already examined the tape samples found with the body and on the gas can and reported in December that they “are comparable to one another in all physical attributes and in the chemical composition of their backing and adhesive components. Therefore, they originated from the same source roll of tape or from rolls of tape manufactured in the same manner.”

Henkel Tape Specs
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/10725800/Henkel-Tape-Specs

[sully]

Disappointing as this may be-it is certainly not a Get Out of Jail Free card for KC. I'm sure many photos were taken before the tape was given to this examiner for testing. Baez and crew will try to spin this-but if this is all they have-I'm not worried. Heart or no heart-the duct tape was still there applied so hard that the mandible was still attached after months in the elements. Caylee will still get her justice!:wub:

[Julie Dupree]

Good Morning Everyone,
I know other pictures were taken of the heart shaped residue because we have seen it. I wonder if these pictures can be used even if the original was destroyed?

[cassidy]

Disappointing as this may be-it is certainly not a Get Out of Jail Free card for KC. I'm sure many photos were taken before the tape was given to this examiner for testing. Baez and crew will try to spin this-but if this is all they have-I'm not worried. Heart or no heart-the duct tape was still there applied so hard that the mandible was still attached after months in the elements. Caylee will still get her justice!:wub:


I hope you're right Sully. the big question though is: Were there any fingerprints on the duct tape? they have stated whose were NOT on there but I don't believe they have stated if there were ANY on there?

[sydney]

I just read that. Wonder if they had to choose one test over the other?

mornin'! i wondered that too, until i thought how difficult would it have been to take a photo first? i would have thought that was SOP.

it seems to me that no investigation can ever be perfect because we humans aren't perfect. there will always be mistakes which the defense will try to capitalize on.

no worries, though. i think they have enough other evidence to tie kc to the crime

[sully]

I hope you're right Sully. the big question though is: Were there any fingerprints on the duct tape? they have stated whose were NOT on there but I don't believe they have stated if there were ANY on there?

I believe you're right! And I don't think it is unusual to lose or degrade some evidence in the course of testing. I'm sure the FBI is well aware of this and take whatever precautions they can.

[BettyC]

Disappointing as this may be-it is certainly not a Get Out of Jail Free card for KC. I'm sure many photos were taken before the tape was given to this examiner for testing. Baez and crew will try to spin this-but if this is all they have-I'm not worried. Heart or no heart-the duct tape was still there applied so hard that the mandible was still attached after months in the elements. Caylee will still get her justice!:wub:

Morning all. We don't know if the prosecution was even planning on using this info that was destroyed.

I do recall reading that one of the reasons for a defense to try and delay trials is just this. This is Michigan but describes Prejudice.

Prejudice. Two types of prejudice which a defendant may experience are prejudice to his or her person and prejudice to his or her defense. People v Collins, 388 Mich 680 (1972). After a delay of 18 months, prejudice is presumed. People v DenUyl, 320 Mich 477 (1948); People v Collins, 388 Mich 680 (1972). Prejudice can also be shown by loss of evidence, witnesses, and memory loss. People v Nuss, 75 Mich App 346 (1977), aff'd 405 Mich 437 (1979) [death of witness and inability of other witnesses to recall evidence established prejudice to the defendant];

http://www.sado.org/motions/chapt13.htm

[Kathlb]

Good morning all.

I am hoping that photos exist going back to Dr G's autopsy, although the sticker was not mentioned specifically at that point, quality photos should have been taken.

Good morning everyone!

Yep they took photos since we have seen at least one of them. And it seems to be fairly normal that testing may use up all of the sample. I remember that JB in court wanted the judge to let them sit in on all testing since sometimes testing destroys the sample and they wouldn't be able to test it themselves then. I don't believe there is a problem & I'm sure the state has evidence of the testing and the picture. MOO

[desmom]

Gas can with duct tape is in pic 18 and close up in pic 19 http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/19105250/detail.html

Evidence photos from the A's home (include pics of heart stickers found in the home) http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18740442/detail.html

Evidence photos from the crime scene: http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/18739950/detail.html

[Sun]

http://www.wftv.com/_blank/18740668/detail.html

Here is some old Discovery, which describes a bit of the collection processes at the scene.

[ish]

Looking back over some of last nights posts regarding Casey changing her story from dropping Caylee at Sawgrass to having her taken at JBP,
a story we've never heard directly from Casey, only thru others, I thought perhaps Casey may try to explain away the Sawgrass story which includes the very incriminating empty apartment by saying that story was part of the script that Zanny gave her in JBP. She can say she never dropped her at Sawgrass, never knew any apartment at Sawgrass, she was just following the script, only later revealing the true location of the abduction.

[Pam1569]

Docs Show Caylee Evidence Destroyed
Fingerprint Test Apparently Destroyed Evidence Of Heart Sticker On Duct Tape
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21104174/detail.html

FBI Document: http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0924/21103527.pdf

Hi desmom :seeya:
Thank you for posting this doc that somehow got into clickorlando hands just like Lenamon's 1st page brief.
I don't think that it means much at all imo. I do believe that there are pictures to show the impression plus the technician testimony. Which I do believe the defense already has in their hands, also if you notice they only showed this page of a 5 page doc from the FBI. imo this just means that since wesh came out with their news story on the money and the State came back at the defense with a put up motion that this is the defenses way of saying See we told you the FBI labs were not good, so we could talk about how there were no finger prints found (which if I remember the FBI just ruled out CA, GA and LA but not CMA/OC) and that they have destroyed evidence. Just imo only this is just a diversion from the actual case. all jmo

[desmom]

Looking back over some of last nights posts regarding Casey changing her story from dropping Caylee at Sawgrass to having her taken at JBP,
a story we've never heard directly from Casey, only thru others, I thought perhaps Casey may try to explain away the Sawgrass story which includes the very incriminating empty apartment by saying that story was part of the script that Zanny gave her in JBP. She can say she never dropped her at Sawgrass, never knew any apartment at Sawgrass, she was just following the script, only later revealing the true location of the abduction.

I think Cindy let the truth come out in an ooops moment when she called NG's show on 9/2/08 http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/02/ng.01.html

Cindy: "No. What she told the sheriff's department all along was that she was kidnapped by Zenaida and, you know -- and that's what she's maintained. She told me, you know, some things during the month of June because she was trying to look for her and tried to get her back herself.

And when that didn't work, that's when, you know, she was -- you know, came clean with the other. But, again, the description of the person that she described to the police on July 16th is the same description of that Dallas tip."

jmo

[trich]

I hope you're right Sully. the big question though is: Were there any fingerprints on the duct tape? they have stated whose were NOT on there but I don't believe they have stated if there were ANY on there?



On Dec. 13, two days after the body was found, she describes how Elizabeth K. Fontaine, a forensic examiner in the lab's latent print operations unit, noticed "a heart shape/outline" on the duct tape, but was "unable to see it after powder process." That process is used to lift any fingerprints from materials. No such prints were found on the tape, according to previously released FBI lab reports.

This is from that article.

[SoggyBayou]

I think Cindy let the truth come out in an ooops moment when she called NG's show on 9/2/08 http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/02/ng.01.html

Cindy: "No. What she told the sheriff's department all along was that she was kidnapped by Zenaida and, you know -- and that's what she's maintained. She told me, you know, some things during the month of June because she was trying to look for her and tried to get her back herself.

And when that didn't work, that's when, you know, she was -- you know, came clean with the other. But, again, the description of the person that she described to the police on July 16th is the same description of that Dallas tip."

jmo

Also,
"She told me, you know, some things during the month of June because she was trying to look for her and tried to get her back herself."

I thought Cindy did NOT know that Caylee was missing until July 15.[911 call]
Double oops.
IMO

[shelkobe]

Since there are documents floating around that have not been released to the public yet, is there any indication that we will see any of these today?

[Kathlb]

Since there are documents floating around that have not been released to the public yet, is there any indication that we will see any of these today?

I hope so and I'd like to see some rulings today by the Judge too. Or Judges as in more than one. ;-)

[Pam1569]

I have an unusual question if anyone can answer I would appreciate. The question that I have is: Can Pipitone from clickorlando.com be made to tell the source of where he was able to receive the FBI document from last nights broadcast since it has not been released to the public/media as of yet?:confused:

[SoggyBayou]

I have an unusual question if anyone can answer I would appreciate. The question that I have is: Can Pipitone from clickorlando.com be made to tell the source of where he was able to receive the FBI document from last nights broadcast since it has not been released to the public/media as of yet?:confused:

My guess would be Baez. This new info is something the defense wants out there. Of course the timing of his report maybe the defenses way of highlighting a positive for the defense. Which may mean that a new doc dump has more incriminating evidence against Casey.
IMO

[sully]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/09/casey-anthony-wkmg-says-fbi-destroyed-crucial-evidence.html#more
Casey Anthony: WKMG says FBI destroyed crucial evidence in case against Casey Anthony
posted by halboedeker on Sep 25, 2009 9:29:50 AM
snipped from article:
It was another first-rate report from Pipitone. And he promised a follow-up today: an interview with a former prosecutor about the revelation could mean to the case

[breezie]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/09/casey-anthony-wkmg-says-fbi-destroyed-crucial-evidence.html#more
Casey Anthony: WKMG says FBI destroyed crucial evidence in case against Casey Anthony
posted by halboedeker on Sep 25, 2009 9:29:50 AM
snipped from article:
It was another first-rate report from Pipitone. And he promised a follow-up today: an interview with a former prosecutor about the revelation could mean to the case

It was consumed by testing verses the sinister *destroyed*. Sheesh. ( the article not you Sully).

[Kathlb]

Morning Pam...and everyone


ITA...
I'm sure they have pictures of the residue...I still wonder why they did not rule out KC's fingerprints while they ruled out the rest of the family...I remember that article about what we won't see...and think sometimes we need to look beyond the obvious...

In my daydream, hers are there and that's when the DP went back on the table.

[Pam1569]

That's been a debate for many years over many things...but freedom of the press is like a dr/patient relationship where they are protected from revealing their resources...but some have been forced by the courts of tell...so who knows???

Maybe one of our legal eagles can help with this...interesting point.

TY Rapunzel, I was hoping that since they had been given to the defense only that it might be obvious to the judge to go ahead and ask for his source. I do agree that this argument has been around for along time, but I was hoping that this could actually prove to the public who is leaking what and accusing others of doing the leaking. TY again for responding. :smile:

[Pam1569]

In my daydream, hers are there and that's when the DP went back on the table.

Hi Kathlb, Mine also. I still think that the State has at least 7 doc dumps from the month of March that we have not seen plus the latest ones. The DP was put back on April 13th and I am sure that the defense knows way more than they have been motioning for. For example: They motioned for the jail video not to be released and Baez did several depositions of the jail house officers (who by the way are not even on the State's witness list), but for the actual Murder State witnesses he has done only 6 and has not even finished with them yet or he would have filed them with the clerk of courts and given them to the State. jmo

[Bala]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/09/casey-anthony-wkmg-says-fbi-destroyed-crucial-evidence.html#more
Casey Anthony: WKMG says FBI destroyed crucial evidence in case against Casey Anthony
posted by halboedeker on Sep 25, 2009 9:29:50 AM
snipped from article:
It was another first-rate report from Pipitone. And he promised a follow-up today: an interview with a former prosecutor about the revelation could mean to the case

I don't see this as crucial evidence. I don't even see it as all that important to proving Casey did it. Yes it makes her look bad and can maybe be connected to the house but I don't think not having it will hurt them.

[Bala]

You could be right...this is something he would want out there...after all this would support his motion...Spoliation of Evidence...

I think that this should and could be used in the COV motion and if Baez or anyone else leaked it then the paper should have to come forward and tell them their source. If Baez claims his office didn't do it and someone knows they did then they should come forward and tell the court he's lying.

[marshmallow]

there is a difference between destroying evidence and using it up because there is a small amount.

I don't think this is a big deal either and it really won't matter. The only way it might is if the used evidence matched a sticker from Casey's hobby stuff and that's really not that big of a loss evidence wise. There is plenty for the SA to work withwith out this. The duct tape itself is much more important.

[nana6]

there is a difference between destroying evidence and using it up because there is a small amount.

I don't think this is a big deal either and it really won't matter. The only way it might is if the used evidence matched a sticker from Casey's hobby stuff and that's really not that big of a loss evidence wise. There is plenty for the SA to work withwith out this. The duct tape itself is much more important.

you are making me feel alot betther thank you:smile:

[Scampi]

I have an unusual question if anyone can answer I would appreciate. The question that I have is: Can Pipitone from clickorlando.com be made to tell the source of where he was able to receive the FBI document from last nights broadcast since it has not been released to the public/media as of yet?:confused:

I would say the short answer is no. But, since this news at first glance
seems beneficial to jose's side, imo the defense probably sent this little
gem his way.

I am very disappointed if pictures of the residue were not documented before any further testing. Unless, the test itself showed the heart shaped residue and before the tech could grab the camera it disappeared. In that case, we would be left with the tech's testimony about what happened.

At any rate, I think there is ample evidence to convict casey anthony in this case.

Morning all, great to have the board open again.

[sully]

I would say the short answer is no. But, since this news at first glance
seems beneficial to jose's side, imo the defense probably sent this little
gem his way.

I am very disappointed if pictures of the residue were not documented before any further testing. Unless, the test itself showed the heart shaped residue and before the tech could grab the camera it disappeared. In that case, we would be left with the tech's testimony about what happened.

At any rate, I think there is ample evidence to convict casey anthony in this case.

Morning all, great to have the board open again.

ITA It would seem that the defense is using the media to try their case in instead of the court where it belongs!!:angry:

[marshmallow]

I would say the short answer is no. But, since this news at first glance
seems beneficial to jose's side, imo the defense probably sent this little
gem his way.

I am very disappointed if pictures of the residue were not documented before any further testing. Unless, the test itself showed the heart shaped residue and before the tech could grab the camera it disappeared. In that case, we would be left with the tech's testimony about what happened.

At any rate, I think there is ample evidence to convict casey anthony in this case.

Morning all, great to have the board open again.


he didn't quite say that though.


We don't know if some other agency might have taken a similar picture that shows such an outline," Pipitone said. "But we know that there's no mention of such a photo in the 8,000 pages that have been released so far."


at least we know who his sources are though. Only one page of five was used. makes me wonder what the other 4 said.

you can always tell when a doc dump is forthcoming.

[Scampi]

ITA It would seem that the defense is using the media to try their case in instead of the court where it belongs!!:angry:

Hiya Sully, thanks for that link by the way. You're right, and this defense has tried this case in the media from day 31, imo. All the while whining that the State is "leaking" info when the reality is everything we have gotten has been thru the liberal Sunshine Laws of the great state of
Florida.

[Scampi]

he didn't quite say that though.


We don't know if some other agency might have taken a similar picture that shows such an outline," Pipitone said. "But we know that there's no mention of such a photo in the 8,000 pages that have been released so far."


at least we know who his sources are though. Only one page of five was used. makes me wonder what the other 4 said.

you can always tell when a doc dump is forthcoming.

You are absolutely correct marsh, thank you for straightening me out. :seeya:

[sully]

Hiya Sully, thanks for that link by the way. You're right, and this defense has tried this case in the media from day 31, imo. All the while whining that the State is "leaking" info when the reality is everything we have gotten has been thru the liberal Sunshine Laws of the great state of
Florida.

I agree! It's not LE or the SA that has been all over the morning shows and other talk shows. The defense can't call discovery made public by the Sunshine Law a "leak"! I think Baez and Co.(that includes the Anthony's) really are underestimating the intelligence of their potential jury pool!

[need2no]

I agree! It's not LE or the SA that has been all over the morning shows and other talk shows. The defense can't call discovery made public by the Sunshine Law a "leak"! I think Baez and Co.(that includes the Anthony's) really are underestimating the intelligence of their potential jury pool!

You're correct sully, and your post reminds me that the defense were the ones who didn't want a gag order imposed in this case:

Judge: Gag order wouldn't stop Caylee media frenzy

A judge denied prosecutors' request for a gag order in the case of Casey Anthony, the Florida woman charged with killing her missing 3-year-old daughter, Caylee.

"The state attorney's office argued that the defense team, as well as the Anthony family's lust for the 'limelight,' may well sabotage the potential jury pool when this case is ultimately tried," the judge continued.
"While this argument has some appeal, it does not rise to the level of being a serious and imminent threat to the administration of justice. Further, this court is confident that even with a 'gag order' the publicity and media attention would continue unabated."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/11/26/caylee.anthony.gag.order/index.html

[sully]

You're spot on n2n! The gag order would have prevented the defense from their commentary when the damning discovery came out! They knew they would need to comment and spin! I remember BC stating (I believe on LKL) that what was being released thru the Sunshine Law is not evidence it is discovery!!:rolleyes:

[Bala]

I just hope when it comes time for the COV hearing the judge remembers who didn't want the gag order and who did the talk show circuit.

[Pam1569]

I just hope when it comes time for the COV hearing the judge remembers who didn't want the gag order and who did the talk show circuit.

Hi Bala, I am sure Judge Strickland will recall the initial gag motion being fought by the defense and he will remember who has been out talking about the case in the media. Also I hope that maybe the defense brings up the fact that even Mrs Baden husband has been on NG doing the same. jmo

[sully]

I just hope when it comes time for the COV hearing the judge remembers who didn't want the gag order and who did the talk show circuit.

Bala-Do you remember when LDB was asking George in court how many shows they had been ? Priceless!!:thumbsup:

[denjet]

Hi all! :seeya:

I agree with all of you ... this one page being leaked to the media and coming out shortly after the defenses motion about evidence being destroyed .... it's a no-brainer who leaked it! If this is all they have from all the discovery that the defense has gotten ... then their client is screwed !! It seems to me a weak foundation to prove their accusations of evidence being destroyed ...

It pleases me that this is all they've been able to come up with .... what angers me is that the defense is still sitting on reams of discovery that the public has still not seen ... there must be some pretty damning discovery ...

IMO the prosecutions doesn't need a stupid heart sticker to prove their case ... the fingerprint evidence had priority over the sticker residue and not the other way around ... JMHO

[need2no]

I just hope when it comes time for the COV hearing the judge remembers who didn't want the gag order and who did the talk show circuit.

All Judge Strickland will need to do is a quick google to confirm his memory of who's been jabbering since the get-go in this case, if that's even necessary... which I seriously doubt it will be IMO.

n2n

[cherish]

I need some help trying to read this FBI lab report

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0924/21103527.pdf

[neid_77]

how is this such a big win for the defense!?!?:unsure: they still have explain away how the whinnie the pooh blanket made it in the bags caylee was found in...and why cynthia only decided to tell police about AFTER IT WAS FOUND WITH THE BODY AT THE CRIME SCENE! obviously there is no babysitter so which one of casey's friends got into their house and took the blanket...oh wait i forgot about Kronk that sneaky fella breaking in to their house..taking that blanket you bet...there are somem things the defense will hack and hack at but will avail nothing!!!

justice for Caylee Maire is COMING!:wub:

[Pam1569]

how is this such a big win for the defense!?!?:unsure: they still have explain away how the whinnie the pooh blanket made it in the bags caylee was found in...and why cynthia only decided to tell police about AFTER IT WAS FOUND WITH THE BODY AT THE CRIME SCENE! obviously there is no babysitter so which one of casey's friends got into their house and took the blanket...oh wait i forgot about Kronk that sneaky fella breaking in to their house..taking that blanket you bet...there are somem things the defense will hack and hack at but will avail nothing!!!

justice for Caylee Maire is COMING!:wub:

Hi neid_77 :seeya:
I am sure that this is another whine and is superficial with what the state has already turned over to the defense and this is a diversion to the facts that placed the DP back on the table. So I am thinking it is just like the jail video imo. I wonder who Baez is going to depos now. He deposed many jail correctional officers about the jail tape, but can't find the time to depos all the state's witnesses yet. all jmo

[denjet]

how is this such a big win for the defense!?!?:unsure: they still have explain away how the whinnie the pooh blanket made it in the bags caylee was found in...and why cynthia only decided to tell police about AFTER IT WAS FOUND WITH THE BODY AT THE CRIME SCENE! obviously there is no babysitter so which one of casey's friends got into their house and took the blanket...oh wait i forgot about Kronk that sneaky fella breaking in to their house..taking that blanket you bet...there are somem things the defense will hack and hack at but will avail nothing!!!

justice for Caylee Maire is COMING!:wub:

Hi Neid! :seeya:

Not to worry ... this is not exactly a bombshell ! If this is the kind of "evidence" that they will present at trial, then justice for Caylee is defintely coming!!

[bballgrl]

Thats such a good point, even now.

How many shows, interviews, deals HAVE the Anthonys done to date?

That would be an interesting list, to say the least. :ohmy:

F$ollow t$he m$oney.

You know, there was an article on this the other day. The Anthony's ARE being compensated for the interview they give, however it is being cloaked under the heading of "licensing fees". My understanding is that the licensing fees are being inflated so that the news outlet can get a story from the A's. Most news agencies will not pay for interviews, but they ALL pay licensing fees.... so inflate the licensing fees to gaurantee your story. That is one way around things.

This could be what happened with the Oprah interview.... someone else was willing to pay higher "licensing fees" than Oprah????? JMO

[spydernweb2006]

I never felt that lil sticker residue was gonna nail Casey to the murder . I always knew that duct tape was gonna be the item that was.

One lil report doesnt absolve Casey in my eyes by any means.

JMHO

Hugs,
Spyder

[AlohaRainbow]

I never felt that lil sticker residue was gonna nail Casey to the murder . I always knew that duct tape was gonna be the item that was.

One lil report doesnt absolve Casey in my eyes by any means.

JMHO

Hugs,
Spyder
i agree - especially since/if (iirc) they were not able to find a "matching" heart sticker from the house.

i think the matching rare type duct tape that was found on both caylee's remains and on the gas cans from the anthony household is much more vital

[Pierre]

Hiya folks,

Those poor Anthony's. It must be awful to loose a loved one. And so young. George and Cindy must be so heartbroken and sad. I bet all they do is sit at home and cry. They both lost their jobs, well I dont remember George having one but no matter, poor people. I bet they cant even get dressed in the morning. They must be broke.
Cindy is so sweet for setting up a non-profit foundation when she should be working, bless her heart.
Poor Casey too! If only Nanny would come back. I dont know why nanny would harm Caylee, because Casey followed the script. LE tried to break her but she stayed so strong for Caylee.

I am so sad myself, I prolly wouldnt be if I wasnt such a fat lazy blogger.
I have to take a nap now, someone sent me to france overnight and I still have Jet lag.barf

Please be kind to the anthonys!

[Katprint]

Hi Bala, I am sure Judge Strickland will recall the initial gag motion being fought by the defense and he will remember who has been out talking about the case in the media. Also I hope that maybe the defense brings up the fact that even Mrs Baden husband has been on NG doing the same. jmo
There is a legal term for this principle: "Judicial estoppel." In a nutshell, you can't take a position in one legal proceeding and get a favorable ruling then take the opposite position in a different legal proceeding.

Similarly, when the Anthony defense team took the position that they needed a lengthy continuance of the murder trial until sometime in 2010 and the judge granted their request for that extended amount of time to adequately prepare their defense to the First Degree Murder with Special Death-Penalty Circumstances, then their position that the check theft/fraud/forgery trial should be delayed because the murder trial will be over by October 2009 was rejected by the judge.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[Anakerie]

Does anyone know when Judge Strickland will be setting the trial date for the fraud trial? I was out of town for a couple days, and have been "out of it" since I got back... Has there been any information about it?

[Bala]

Bala-Do you remember when LDB was asking George in court how many shows they had been ? Priceless!!:thumbsup:
Yes I think it was a preview of what the COV motion hearing will be. Jose how many talk shows have you done? How many have the Anthony's done? How many have the State done. Every time the defense leaves the court house they give a interview. I have never heard from the State.

[SoggyBayou]

OK, group hug
I'm waiting on a doc dump. Not the little leaks from the defense.
As for the heart sticker, I agree with many posts that it maybe too prejudicial for trial, it was NOT destroyed, and Dr.G photographed all portions of the duct tape. Remember, we do not have privy to autopsy photos. They are sealed.
IMO

[no1what]

[/B]


There are ways to make a point without scolding posters like we are 3 years olds. It is insulting.



You have to admit tho that there are some posters on here who do post like 3 year olds.

[Bala]

I think that the fact that the defense has to make such a big deal out of the heart sticker speaks volumes about their case.

[Katprint]

OK, group hug
I'm waiting on a doc dump. Not the little leaks from the defense.
As for the heart sticker, I agree with many posts that it maybe too prejudicial for trial, it was NOT destroyed, and Dr.G photographed all portions of the duct tape. Remember, we do not have privy to autopsy photos. They are sealed.
IMO
I agree that there are likely photos of the sticker adhesive residue, even if the FBI Latent Print lab didn't take any photos of it.

It is important to keep in mind the motive behind the destruction of the adhesive residue. It wasn't to prejudice Casey by destroying evidence; it was to try to find fingerprints of the person who applied the duct tape to Caylee's head. If fingerprints of some registered pedophile sex offender had been discovered, Casey's defense team would be singing "Hallelujah!" and congratulating the FBI Latent Print lab on its good work. Instead, a particularly egregious, incriminating piece of evidence against Casey was destroyed.

If the prosecution had an expert willing to testify that the heart sticker had come from a particular sheet of stickers found at the Anthony residence then perhaps the destruction of the residue would be more important, because preserving the residue for independent testing by the defense so they could conceivably refute the match (like the identical duct tape match) would have been more important. However, IIRC they did not find any stickers that were exactly the same although they had many, many sheets of heart stickers and it was clearly the Anthonys' general custom and practice to use heart stickers for purposes of decoration, for example, the heart stickers shown in one of the photos of Casey's heart sticker-decorated cell phone.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[bballgrl]

I never felt that lil sticker residue was gonna nail Casey to the murder . I always knew that duct tape was gonna be the item that was.

One lil report doesnt absolve Casey in my eyes by any means.

JMHO

Hugs,
Spyder

To be honest Spyder, that sticker (while a horrifying thought) means next to nothing. It could have been alraedy stuck on the duct tape when it was placed over her little face. The Duct Tape itself is the worst thing ever... not the sticker.

[bballgrl]

Hey martha, I haven't posted much lately but, like you, pop in frequently to see if there's anything new. Was surprised at CW's comment, but I suppose posters have such a camaraderie they might get a little off track? :smile:

Does anyone have any idea why it's taking Judge Strickland so long to set a date for the civil check case? Also any clue when Judge R might set hearing on Mr. Mitnik's motion re DC lies? TYIA and please excuse if discussed recently.

I have to admit that I am eternally disgusted by the length of time each and every little thing in this case is being drawn out. Each time there is a hearing on something, there is NO determination on that case, but another is brought out and a ruling is delayed... It's nuts. Just make a ruling already! FGS.... sheesh. It's like he is afraid to make any rulings and have bad press or something. If the law is on your side, do your job. Man, can you tell I am getting anxious for some kind of Justice.. For Caylee, for Zenaida... etc..... Nothing is happening! A whole lotta nothing!

[need2no]

Yes I think it was a preview of what the COV motion hearing will be. Jose how many talk shows have you done? How many have the Anthony's done? How many have the State done. Every time the defense leaves the court house they give a interview. I have never heard from the State.


No doubt about it, it's impossible to keep up with all the media appearances over the past 14 months... sidewalks outside of court, front yard, tent where donations were collected, various events such as the derby races, beside the Caylee boat, at a hospital, and so on.

It sure didn't take long to get the ball rolling with the media as evidenced by this jailhouse interview right after casey was initially arrested and jailed in July, the day after her daughter was reported missing.

(Snipped) Text Of Casey Anthony's Jailhouse Phone Call To Home In July, 2008:

"Mom," Casey Anthony said. "I just saw your nice little cameo on TV."
"Which one," Cindy Anthony said.
"What do you mean, which one?" Casey Anthony said.
"Which one?" Cindy Anthony said. "I did four different ones, and I haven't seen them all. I've only seen one or two so far."

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/16993169/detail.html

[Pierre]

WELCOME TO INSESSION!!
Your views fit well here with current trends.

My thoughts exactly! :rolleyes:

KC such a brave young woman. (Candidate for Mother of The Year You know)

Hard to understand why so many hurtfull things are said about brave young Casey and her marvellous family at EVERY SINGLE message site? :confused:

I knew I wasnt the only one who felt this way, Hopefully Casey will only get life in prison with no parole.
What a wonderful message board!

[Anakerie]

No worries, Ana - you will be informed if you get one, believe me. Just remember to be kind when you post about the Anthonys and it will all be good.:sneaky:
Does that mean that I should be "kind" to Cindy if she sends me another email like the one I posted on my blog way back when? :sneaky:

[Lapis]

I have to admit that I am eternally disgusted by the length of time each and every little thing in this case is being drawn out. Each time there is a hearing on something, there is NO determination on that case, but another is brought out and a ruling is delayed... It's nuts. Just make a ruling already! FGS.... sheesh. It's like he is afraid to make any rulings and have bad press or something. If the law is on your side, do your job. Man, can you tell I am getting anxious for some kind of Justice.. For Caylee, for Zenaida... etc..... Nothing is happening! A whole lotta nothing!

I have to say that is one of the most frustrating things about this case. While I sometimes complain about the procedures here in NJ, we do handle things in an efficient manner. Every other Friday is designated a motion day in every court in the state. Fourteen days must be given for most motions (summary judgment and some other are 28 days). The motion is then listed for the first motion Friday following the expiration of the 14 days. Opposition must be filed no later than 8 days preceding the return date. The moving party has one further opportunity to file papers no later than 4 days before the return date. You are not permitted to bring new papers with you on the return date of the motion. This means that the court has all the papers prior to the return date. (The parties may request one adjournment of the motion to allow for scheduling difficulties) On the return date the court may order oral argument or decide "on the papers". Either way a decision is made on the return date of the motion and an order entered. It is very rare (and discouraged by the NJ Supreme Court) for the motion judge to take matters under advisement for a decision at a later date. The judge must give his reasoning on the record and enter a written order.

Maybe I should forward the suggestion to the Florida Supreme Court or the rules committee. JMO

[Sun]

-snip-
Does anyone have any idea why it's taking Judge Strickland so long to set a date for the civil check case? Also any clue when Judge R might set hearing on Mr. Mitnik's motion re DC lies? TYIA and please excuse if discussed recently.

A court hearing date of Jan 10, 2010 has been set to hear Morgan/Mitnik's Motion to Compel DCasey to be deposed. Judge Rodriguez still hasn't ruled on Kasen's Motion to Dismiss or Stay.

No pre-trial or trial dates have been announced yet, for the Criminal check/fraud case.

[jaxback]

Does that mean that I should be "kind" to Cindy if she sends me another email like the one I posted on my blog way back when? :sneaky:

Hmmmm. . . yes. Apparently it's fine for Cindy to engage in any kind of public behavior she likes, but it's not fine for anyone to criticize her.

I'll start: I really, really hope the Anthonys are coming to grips with the reality of their situation and getting the help they need.:smile:

Has anyone seen Lee lately? :rolleyes:

[nana6]

Good afternoon all. I just got on here and noticed we have very few posts today??? Anyway, is there any news to report? I thought i heard this past week we might be gettting some docs released. Is that true? Thank you, Nana

[nana6]

i think the fact that kc has been provided free a world class top legal defence team, and a formidable team of world leading expert consultants, in itself proves she is fully supported by thousands of people world wide, who have devoted their expertise, and money in support of her defence against totally false allegations :eek:

I am confident she will be found "not guilty" of all charges related to any harm that might have befallen her daughter.

The remaining "misdemeanours" involving temporarily appropriating funds to help with her desperate quest for her missing child, i think will also be seen in context. She has suffered enough already and time already served is more than punishment for that?

what???????

[Roux]

A court hearing date of Jan 10, 2010 has been set to hear Morgan/Mitnik's Motion to Compel DCasey to be deposed. Judge Rodriguez still hasn't ruled on Kasen's Motion to Dismiss or Stay.

No pre-trial or trial dates have been announced yet, for the Criminal check/fraud case.

Heavens to Mehitable! January 2010? Guess Judge R is waiting for winter sweeps season. That is utterly ridiculous. But thanks very much for the info.

[bballgrl]

A court hearing date of Jan 10, 2010 has been set to hear Morgan/Mitnik's Motion to Compel DCasey to be deposed. Judge Rodriguez still hasn't ruled on Kasen's Motion to Dismiss or Stay.

No pre-trial or trial dates have been announced yet, for the Criminal check/fraud case.

See, this is what I mean. I still can NOT believe that nothing has been done about Dominic Casey refusing to be deposed. Holy Carp... really? He was subpeonead (sp) and he just did not show up. Then they call him to court about that and the judge just says.. well, we'll see. Then they set another date and it is in JANUARY. For real? Good lord. That just boggles my mind. If they do decide that Casey has to be deposed, by then everyone will have forgotten the questions and Casey can literally say "I can't remember".... :cursing:

[saywhat04]

Heavens to Mehitable! January 2010? Guess Judge R is waiting for winter sweeps season. That is utterly ridiculous. But thanks very much for the info.

I prefer to think maybe Judge R is so :blushing: about his ratings of late, he doesn't want to be seen on camera anytime soon. :laugh:

[saywhat04]

See, this is what I mean. I still can NOT believe that nothing has been done about Dominic Casey refusing to be deposed. Holy Carp... really? He was subpeonead (sp) and he just did not show up. Then they call him to court about that and the judge just says.. well, we'll see. Then they set another date and it is in JANUARY. For real? Good lord. That just boggles my mind. If they do decide that Casey has to be deposed, by then everyone will have forgotten the questions and Casey can literally say "I can't remember".... :cursing:

Plus, it's now been proven DCasey LIED on the stand in front of Rodriguez. But ... let's wait until 2010. No biggie. :glare:

[bballgrl]

I think the fact that KC has been provided FREE a world class top legal defence team, AND a formidable team of World leading expert consultants, in itself proves she is fully supported by thousands of people world wide, who have devoted their expertise, and money in support of her defence against totally false allegations :eek:

I am confident she will be found "NOT GUILTY" of all charges related to any harm that might have befallen her daughter.

The remaining "Misdemeanours" involving temporarily appropriating funds to help with her desperate quest for her missing child, I think will also be seen in context. She has suffered enough already and Time already served is more than punishment for that?

Yes, I am sure that she needed a proper wardrobe and shades (to hide her identity) while searching for Caylee. Also, she needed Beer to loosen the tongues of her witnesses. Yes, I am sure that is why she needed to "borrow" money from her BFF>... Definitely :rolleyes:

[Roux]

I prefer to think maybe Judge R is so :blushing: about his ratings of late, he doesn't want to be seen on camera anytime soon. :laugh:

Well now I have another reason to go vote again!

[bballgrl]

Plus, it's now been proven DCasey LIED on the stand in front of Rodriguez. But ... let's wait until 2010. No biggie. :glare:

Ah yes... New year.. new chance to be a Bad A$$ judge. Maybe he wants to make a comeback and is waiting for a brandy new year??? :thumbup:

[Anakerie]

Hmmmm. . . yes. Apparently it's fine for Cindy to engage in any kind of public behavior she likes, but it's not fine for anyone to criticize her.

I'll start: I really, really hope the Anthonys are coming to grips with the reality of their situation and getting the help they need.:smile:

Has anyone seen Lee lately? :rolleyes:
Hmm.. After that 1st nastygram from Cindy, it's not easy for me to be kind to her. Oh dear.

I doubt if the Anthony family will come to grips with reality until the trial is over and all appeals are exhausted. If, in fact, they can come to grips with what happened to their granddaughter.

[BettyC]

Good afternoon all. I just got on here and noticed we have very few posts today??? Anyway, is there any news to report? I thought i heard this past week we might be gettting some docs released. Is that true? Thank you, Nana

Hi nana. Few posts because there was a mass banning yesterday.

We were hoping there would be doc dump today but so far, no news of it.

I just found this though:

The defense team of Casey Anthony said there is no evidence of a heart-shaped sticker allegedly found across Caylee Anthony's skull.

Casey Anthony is charged with murder in connection with her 2-year-old daughter's death.

Investigators claim they found sheets of similar stickers among Anthony's belongings.

Attorney Jose Baez's spokeswoman was reacting to reports that the FBI destroyed evidence of the sticker residue on the tape when they were testing it for fingerprints.

Didn't take them long to jump on it.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21114372/detail.html

[Pierre]

Hi nana. Few posts because there was a mass banning yesterday.

We were hoping there would be doc dump today but so far, no news of it.

I just found this though:

The defense team of Casey Anthony said there is no evidence of a heart-shaped sticker allegedly found across Caylee Anthony's skull.

Casey Anthony is charged with murder in connection with her 2-year-old daughter's death.

Investigators claim they found sheets of similar stickers among Anthony's belongings.

Attorney Jose Baez's spokeswoman was reacting to reports that the FBI destroyed evidence of the sticker residue on the tape when they were testing it for fingerprints.

Didn't take them long to jump on it.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21114372/detail.html

of all of the horrendous things Casey has done, the sticker was the only thing that had centiment to it.
So.....no sticker is ok with me.

[SoggyBayou]

I thought JB complained about evidence testing awhile back. Claiming that the defense could not do secondary testing due to contamination or destruction.
Anyone remember? Help, I need a link.

[need2no]

When I watched one of the Larry King Live shows with Cindy, George and Brad Conway I was a bit taken a back by Conway's bold denial of a heart sticker being on the duct tape. Now I'm wondering how long he and the Anthony's have known this evidence was accidently destroyed by the FBI.

KING: The duct tape covering Caylee`s mouth allegedly had a heart- shaped residue apparently from a sticker and a sheet of a heart-shaped sticker was missing found at your home. How do you explain that?

BRAD CONWAY, ATTORNEY FOR CINDY & GEORGE ANTHONY: Not true.

KING: What do you mean not true?

CONWAY: Not true. There was no heart-shaped sticker on the duct tape.

KING: It was reported.

CONWAY: That`s, again, speculation that comes from the thousands of pages of...

KING: How can you speculate a heart-shaped thing on a duct tape? It`s either there or it isn`t there. How do you speculate that?

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/14/ijvm.01.html

[kakax]

Hi nana. Few posts because there was a mass banning yesterday.

We were hoping there would be doc dump today but so far, no news of it.

I just found this though:

The defense team of Casey Anthony said there is no evidence of a heart-shaped sticker allegedly found across Caylee Anthony's skull.

Casey Anthony is charged with murder in connection with her 2-year-old daughter's death.

Investigators claim they found sheets of similar stickers among Anthony's belongings.

Attorney Jose Baez's spokeswoman was reacting to reports that the FBI destroyed evidence of the sticker residue on the tape when they were testing it for fingerprints.

Didn't take them long to jump on it.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21114372/detail.html


Like Jose didn't leak this report?

I don't think it is that big of a deal, but I will be disappointed if it can't be referrenced at trial. A picture would be worth a 1000 words.

[Kathlb]

I thought JB complained about evidence testing awhile back. Claiming that the defense could not do secondary testing due to contamination or destruction.
Anyone remember? Help, I need a link.

Yep, it was in a hearing and he wanted the defense to be able to sit in on all testing since sometimes the test destroys the evidence and the Def. then wouldn't be able to do their own testing.

[Kathlb]

ITA, it won't mean a thing with all of the other evidence they have. Wishful thinking on JB's part. MOO

[martha]

Like Jose didn't leak this report?

I don't think it is that big of a deal, but I will be disappointed if it can't be referrenced at trial. A picture would be worth a 1000 words.

they did have a picture of it did they not? i thought I saw it in the evd.pictures.oh I hope I am right.just don;t know for sure.jmho:wub:

[Scampi]

Come on everybody, let's settle down and try to discuss the case with absolutely no name calling of any of the participants and do not go off topic. These have always been the rules here.

I am very much looking forward to another document release that we can sleuth together.

Also, hopefully Judge Strickland will schedule the hearing so that jose can present his evidence that the State contaminated the crimescene. I am really looking forward to that.

[spydernweb2006]

Hi nana. Few posts because there was a mass banning yesterday.

We were hoping there would be doc dump today but so far, no news of it.

I just found this though:

The defense team of Casey Anthony said there is no evidence of a heart-shaped sticker allegedly found across Caylee Anthony's skull.

Casey Anthony is charged with murder in connection with her 2-year-old daughter's death.

Investigators claim they found sheets of similar stickers among Anthony's belongings.

Attorney Jose Baez's spokeswoman was reacting to reports that the FBI destroyed evidence of the sticker residue on the tape when they were testing it for fingerprints.

Didn't take them long to jump on it.

http://www.wesh.com/news/21114372/detail.html

Notice they dont mention the duct tape that matched the Anthony's gas cans.......

I guess the defense can just ignore evidence they dont like and excentuate the lil things they believe is in their favor.

I guess the next round from the defense will be Invisi Nanny also stole the Anthony gas cans to implicate innocent Mother of the Year Casey.

Man, that invis Nanny is some sorta talented to do all this and never be seen! I didnt realize Casey was soooooo special that a nanny would do all this to her and her family for NOTHING! No ransom or seen demands. I guess Invisi Nanny did this just for spite, but I havent seen any reason for Invisi Nanny to be spitefull to Casey. IF Invisi Nanny was doing it for love of Caylee, why kill her? I just havent seen any reason for Nanny to kidnap, steal a child, kill the child, and set the Mother of the year up for the crime. In the words of Dr.Lee, sometings wrong here.

JMHO

Hugs,
Spyder

[BettyC]

Notice they dont mention the duct tape that matched the Anthony's gas cans.......

I guess the defense can just ignore evidence they dont like and excentuate the lil things they believe is in their favor.

I guess the next round from the defense will be Invisi Nanny also stole the Anthony gas cans to implicate innocent Mother of the Year Casey.

Man, that invis Nanny is some sorta talented to do all this and never be seen! I didnt realize Casey was soooooo special that a nanny would do all this to her and her family for NOTHING! No ransom or seen demands. I guess Invisi Nanny did this just for spite, but I havent seen any reason for Invisi Nanny to be spitefull to Casey. IF Invisi Nanny was doing it for love of Caylee, why kill her? I just havent seen any reason for Nanny to kidnap, steal a child, kill the child, and set the Mother of the year up for the crime. In the words of Dr.Lee, sometings wrong here.

JMHO

Hugs,
Spyder

IIRC didn't Brad Conway also state that there was NO duct tape around Caylee's head?

That was similar to a Caseyism, say anything and don't worry that they'll prove you wrong.

[need2no]

I thought JB complained about evidence testing awhile back. Claiming that the defense could not do secondary testing due to contamination or destruction.
Anyone remember? Help, I need a link.

Yes, I remember. I also recall Baez asking for an explantion from the FBI regarding how they perform various tests. I think this 'dry' info is what we will get whenever the docs are finally released.

I'm not sure this is the exact motion you are referring to, but in this motion Baez is asking for the defense experts to be permitted to be present during testing on the remains.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/fun-images/Baez_motion1_body_20found.jpg

You will need to zoom to read it.

[cassidy]

IIRC didn't Brad Conway also state that there was NO duct tape around Caylee's head?

That was similar to a Caseyism, say anything and don't worry that they'll prove you wrong.

I remember it the same way you do. Brad said no duct tape. I suppose he got his misinformation directly from the Anthony's.

JMO

[Scampi]

IIRC didn't Brad Conway also state that there was NO duct tape around Caylee's head?

That was similar to a Caseyism, say anything and don't worry that they'll prove you wrong.

He sure did Betty. It was on the LKL show, iirc. Came right out and totally denied that there was tape found wrapped around the skull.

[SoggyBayou]

Notice they dont mention the duct tape that matched the Anthony's gas cans.......

I guess the defense can just ignore evidence they dont like and excentuate the lil things they believe is in their favor.

I guess the next round from the defense will be Invisi Nanny also stole the Anthony gas cans to implicate innocent Mother of the Year Casey.

Man, that invis Nanny is some sorta talented to do all this and never be seen! I didnt realize Casey was soooooo special that a nanny would do all this to her and her family for NOTHING! No ransom or seen demands. I guess Invisi Nanny did this just for spite, but I havent seen any reason for Invisi Nanny to be spitefull to Casey. IF Invisi Nanny was doing it for love of Caylee, why kill her? I just havent seen any reason for Nanny to kidnap, steal a child, kill the child, and set the Mother of the year up for the crime. In the words of Dr.Lee, sometings wrong here.

JMHO

Hugs,
Spyder

Yep, I agree, that nanny is one multi task wonder free of charge. Big teeth and a "10" to boot.
But why did the nanny kidnap and kill Caylee?
IMO

[cassidy]

Yep, I agree, that nanny is one multi task wonder free of charge. Big teeth and a "10" to boot.
But why did the nanny kidnap and kill Caylee?
IMO


I guess sometimes even the best of nannies simply go bad. This must be such a case.

[kakax]

You're still here. Your post count has dropped a bit. :wink:

Imo, the defense is hoping they can catapult this heart-shaped adhesive business into something important.

They can't. It's a big nothing, imo. The duct tape didn't "disappear." The duct tape wrapped across that baby's mouth and nose, and around her tiny head didn't disappear. :angry:


No it isn't...but I sure will hate listening to this all over the news. Please spare me the Jose tour with Geraldo.

[alisa31235]

I guess sometimes even the best of nannies simply go bad. This must be such a case.

What I dont understand is why are C&G not out looking for this nanny that done this to their GD IMO thats what i would be doing

[sully]

He sure did Betty. It was on the LKL show, iirc. Came right out and totally denied that there was tape found wrapped around the skull.

Do we know for sure that there was tape "around" the skull?
I think Brad was being very technical with his words and making it sound like there was no duct tape at all!
Kinda of a "mistruth" maybe-and ya know that's allowable in some parts of Orlando!:wink:

[kakax]

He sure did Betty. It was on the LKL show, iirc. Came right out and totally denied that there was tape found wrapped around the skull.



Completely forgot about it. Such a good point that the Anthony's must have known about this earlier. How much else do they all know? Lots, I am assuming.

[kakax]

Some how I missed you...yes I missed you :wub:

I do love this forum for all the information, if it wasn't for this site I do believe Caylee would have been forgotten a long time ago...



I agree with all that you have said. :wub:

[cassidy]

What I dont understand is why are C&G not out looking for this nanny that done this to their GD IMO thats what i would be doing

I don't think that Casey ever gave a description of the evil nanny, did :shrug:she? Kind of hard to hunt down someone if you don't know what they really look like.

[alisa31235]

I don't think that Casey ever gave a description of the evil nanny, did :shrug:she? Kind of hard to hunt down someone if you don't know what they really look like.

You are right cass all we really know is that she is a "10" but if this is gonna be the defense then somebody needs to try and pretend they are looking for her IMO

[cassidy]

You are right cass all we really know is that she is a "10" but if this is gonna be the defense then somebody needs to try and pretend they are looking for her IMO

Kind of late for that isn't it? They should have pretended to look a long time ago?

[bballgrl]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/crime/orl-casey1909feb19,0,6533014.story

"Studying the tape

The duct tape wrapped the skull was examined by the FBI lab in Quantico, Va. While the FBI's latent print unit was examining the duct tape, analysts found "residue in the perfect shape of a heart."

A picture of the crime scene showed a pink heart stuck to what appeared to be a cardboard mat."

I thought I remembered a sticker too, but I do remember now that it was on a piece of cardboard, not the duct tape. But this story does indicate the tape was wrapped AROUND the skull.

[denjet]

He sure did Betty. It was on the LKL show, iirc. Came right out and totally denied that there was tape found wrapped around the skull.
Hi Scampi!
I remember it too, and remember thinking another play on words? In other words the tape may not have been completely wrapped around the entire head ... these lawyers seem to be so good at putting spin on evidence ... he could have said there was no tape or there was no tape wrapped from ear to ear that held the jaw in place ... but he chose his words wisely ... same thing that we've heard time and time again from the defense ...

[bballgrl]

Kind of late for that isn't it? They should have pretended to look a long time ago?

IMO they should have LITERALLY looked a while ago. Not talked about it, or driven bill boards around. They should have gone out as Cindy stated she would do and go "Door to Door" looking for this poor baby. Although, as we all believe, it probably wouldn't ahve helped anyway cause Caylee was already gone. RIP Baby!

[LadyHam]

What I dont understand is why are C&G not out looking for this nanny that done this to their GD IMO thats what i would be doing

I agree. If I was in the same position and I thought my daughter was being wrongly accused, I would be doing everything in my power to find the person responsible. Nothing else would matter to me. Nothing.

Hello, everyone! :seeya:

[need2no]

What I dont understand is why are C&G not out looking for this nanny that done this to their GD IMO thats what i would be doing

You betcha. I came across this today and thought it was interesting:

LARRY KING, CNN HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Do you have any idea why Caylee (SIC) didn`t call police all the time her daughter was missing?

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Casey? I can`t answer that. You know, Casey was probably coping and grieving the best that she could.

KING: Yes, but isn`t that...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hello. Why would Casey be grieving? Her daughter`s skeletal remains were not discovered until several months later. The very first time she was confronted, Casey claimed the nanny, Zanny the nanny, took the baby and told her brother Lee, she thought little Caylee was alive and well.

hmmm...rather telling, don't you think.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0905/14/ijvm.01.html

[LadyHam]

I don't think that Casey ever gave a description of the evil nanny, did :shrug:she? Kind of hard to hunt down someone if you don't know what they really look like.

IIRC, she gave a very vague description. Curly hair that she wears straight, 5'7", a PERFECT 10. Basically it was a nondescript description that wouldn't have helped, even if Zanny the nanny had actually existed.

[need2no]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/crime/orl-casey1909feb19,0,6533014.story

"Studying the tape

The duct tape wrapped the skull was examined by the FBI lab in Quantico, Va. While the FBI's latent print unit was examining the duct tape, analysts found "residue in the perfect shape of a heart."

A picture of the crime scene showed a pink heart stuck to what appeared to be a cardboard mat."

I thought I remembered a sticker too, but I do remember now that it was on a piece of cardboard, not the duct tape. But this story does indicate the tape was wrapped AROUND the skull.


Putting everything together that we've read and heard I just interpreted that to mean the sticker was not found on the duct tape which was around Caylee's little skull, but rather it was found stuck to a random piece of cardboard, (perhaps the heart sticker washed away from the duct tape by the rainwater.) Then during examination of the duct tape they discovered the residue in the shape of a heart...a heart that matched the heart found on the cardboard. This is my take anyway.

[AbbyNormal]

He sure did Betty. It was on the LKL show, iirc. Came right out and totally denied that there was tape found wrapped around the skull.Good afternoon everybody. I think Mr. Conway was misleading, but accurate with his words. No tape wrapped AROUND the skull. The tape, IIRC, was over the face of the skull in such a manner that the jaw stayed attached to the skull. He was technically correct.

Same way his comment about the heart sticker. There was no heart sticker found on the tape. Technically correct. The residue remained on the tape, not the sticker itself.

I am no fan of the defense team. The words they use are intended to confuse. jmo

[saywhat04]

I agree. If I was in the same position and I thought my daughter was being wrongly accused, I would be doing everything in my power to find the person responsible. Nothing else would matter to me. Nothing.

Hello, everyone! :seeya:

Welcome to the board! :wink:

[cassidy]

IMO they should have LITERALLY looked a while ago. Not talked about it, or driven bill boards around. They should have gone out as Cindy stated she would do and go "Door to Door" looking for this poor baby. Although, as we all believe, it probably wouldn't ahve helped anyway cause Caylee was already gone. RIP Baby!

But they didn't. They never even pretended to look. They accepted the vague description Casey gave them and never pushed for more detail. This (the nanny) was someone Casey was telling them she saw daily for almost 2 years and they never questioned that the simple description she gave them was the best that she could do? But they want the world to believe that Casey didn't do it?
OK sure...............

[Scampi]

I agree. If I was in the same position and I thought my daughter was being wrongly accused, I would be doing everything in my power to find the person responsible. Nothing else would matter to me. Nothing.

Hello, everyone! :seeya:

Welcome Newbie!! You're right, that would be the number one goal, find the "Nanny"

Since this would fall under the "work product" rule, I wonder how the
prosecution will ferret out the information that cindy and george never
had anyone looking for this "nanny?"

[Scampi]

Good afternoon everybody. I think Mr. Conway was misleading, but accurate with his words. No tape wrapped AROUND the skull. The tape, IIRC, was over the face of the skull in such a manner that the jaw stayed attached to the skull. He was technically correct.

Same way his comment about the heart sticker. There was no heart sticker found on the tape. Technically correct. The residue remained on the tape, not the sticker itself.

I am no fan of the defense team. The words they use are intended to confuse. jmo

Good point Abby, they are great at twisting and spinning. imo.

[need2no]

Welcome Newbie!! You're right, that would be the number one goal, find the "Nanny"

Since this would fall under the "work product" rule, I wonder how the
prosecution will ferret out the information that cindy and george never
had anyone looking for this "nanny?"

Didn't the Anthony's state they were leaving this up to LE and their PI?

[sully]

Good afternoon everybody. I think Mr. Conway was misleading, but accurate with his words. No tape wrapped AROUND the skull. The tape, IIRC, was over the face of the skull in such a manner that the jaw stayed attached to the skull. He was technically correct.

Same way his comment about the heart sticker. There was no heart sticker found on the tape. Technically correct. The residue remained on the tape, not the sticker itself.

I am no fan of the defense team. The words they use are intended to confuse. jmo

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0619/19802034.pdf
The autopsy report says "several overlapping pieces of duct tape, over the anterior portion of the lower skull, including mandible and a portion of the maxilla."
I think your assessment of Brad is correct! He was using the truth in an untruthful way!!:thumbdown:

[nana6]

are we up and running???:confused:

[ish]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/crime/orl-casey1909feb19,0,6533014.story

"Studying the tape

The duct tape wrapped the skull was examined by the FBI lab in Quantico, Va. While the FBI's latent print unit was examining the duct tape, analysts found "residue in the perfect shape of a heart."

A picture of the crime scene showed a pink heart stuck to what appeared to be a cardboard mat."

I thought I remembered a sticker too, but I do remember now that it was on a piece of cardboard, not the duct tape. But this story does indicate the tape was wrapped AROUND the skull.

was the heart actually attached to the cardboard? I thought the cardboard was just used as a backdrop to photograph the sticker against.

[breezie]

was the heart actually attached to the cardboard? I thought the cardboard was just used as a backdrop to photograph the sticker against.

my understanding is that is was found on the cardboard at the site and was collected as such. Photographed.

[ish]

my understanding is that is was found on the cardboard at the site and was collected as such. Photographed.

Thanks, the only reference I'd seen to the cardboard was the picture of it. The notes I saw only referred to the sticker being found.

[KTBarTheDoor]

I cant believe that no one has a picture of the heart outline on the duct tape.. and can anyone tell me why only one thing has come out from the FBI reguarding this.. I didnt see any other documents come out this week other then this one.....Am I missing them? thanks KT

[Katprint]

Welcome Newbie!! You're right, that would be the number one goal, find the "Nanny"

Since this would fall under the "work product" rule, I wonder how the
prosecution will ferret out the information that cindy and george never
had anyone looking for this "nanny?"
The admissibility of this fact could be determined during a motion in limine, which would give Cindy and George the opportunity to claim that their attorney told them not to look for the imagi-nanny. This is the only way I can think of that not looking for the imagi-nanny could possibly be covered by attorney work product although even that is a stretch. Normally, "attorney work product" consists of affirmative actions like investigation, consultation with experts, interviewing witnesses, etc. Off the top of my head I cannot think of any refraining from doing something that would be privileged.

Sometimes people do something or refrain from doing something due to "advice of counsel." This is normally in the context of financial matters or pending legal matters involving issues not normally understood by laypersons lacking specialized legal educations. I can't imagine an attorney advising their client not to look for their grandchild's kidnapper. I'm certain that all of the Anthonys' attorneys will deny having given that advice (which isn't really legal advice, per se) just like they can be expected to deny advising Cindy to withhold critical information from authorities such as Casey switching from the Sawgrass Apts scenario to the Blanchard Park scenario.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[Scampi]

Thank you so much Kat.

[Barbara fl.]

I just read that. Wonder if they had to choose one test over the other?


That is exactly what I was thinking..They may have been more interested to see if they can get finger prints off the tape and in the interim they messed up the sticket tape.....just a thought....

[Cheri_G]

I cant believe that no one has a picture of the heart outline on the duct tape.. and can anyone tell me why only one thing has come out from the FBI reguarding this.. I didnt see any other documents come out this week other then this one.....Am I missing them? thanks KT

I was wondering why there are no photos as well. I thought they usually took pictures of things like that before starting their testing.

[Cheri_G]

But they could have taken a picture of it before I think. Wouldn´t be too much work for them.
Anyway, 31 days is the biggest nail in the coffin. And a nanny that doesn´t exist. And a family that doesn´t search for this nanny. I would travel around the world just to find her. And believe me, I would have adresses, tel.no. and all if that would be the nanny of my grandbaby.

And CW. Don´t get angry. You gave the hint with the A..s in the first place. I didn´t even think about that before.

LL

(bold by me)

I've always wondered about that. Its info one would think Cindy would/should have pressed for.

When my kids were little and in daycare I always made sure someone from my family not only had a number and address but visited them at least once with me so the dc provider would know them if they ever needed to pick the kids up for me.

[Cheri_G]

I remember seeing a photo I believe it was on NG.

A photo of the sticker or a photo of the imprint on the tape?

[Barbara fl.]

But they could have taken a picture of it before I think. Wouldn´t be too much work for them.
Anyway, 31 days is the biggest nail in the coffin. And a nanny that doesn´t exist. And a family that doesn´t search for this nanny. I would travel around the world just to find her. And believe me, I would have adresses, tel.no. and all if that would be the nanny of my grandbaby.

And CW. Don´t get angry. You gave the hint with the A..s in the first place. I didn´t even think about that before.

LL

You are sooooooo right....that heart sticker doesn't change a thing as far as I can see....LE has enough to hang Casey with their first sentence....

But of course the defene is going to ride on this, but only because they have anything else...Casey is going...no if's and's or but's....

[Barbara fl.]

A photo of the sticker or a photo of the imprint on the tape?



I think Bala is correct, I too remember seeing a photo of the sticker as well as the imprint....unless it was a picture of the likely hood...but I do remember a picture....

[Lavinya]

Hey all! :seeya:(Well, you seven or eight, lol.)

Has that legal common-tater "Shaeffer" had a take yet about the implications and ramifications about the loss of the heart adhesive?

[Barbara fl.]

Welcome Newbie!! You're right, that would be the number one goal, find the "Nanny"

Since this would fall under the "work product" rule, I wonder how the
prosecution will ferret out the information that cindy and george never
had anyone looking for this "nanny?"


Exactly....ANY grandparent, especially one that has their granddaughter living in their hoem, would insist that they have a phone number as well as an address for the baby sitter....ANY grandparent would have made a trip to see exactly where their grand baby was staying and being treated...I would have made a point to have to meet this baby sitter......BUT for a year and a half, not Cindy nor George ever tried to check out where their grand was going.....that doesn't speak well of them, it says that they didn't care where she was going...

And the mere fact that they never tried to go to the address that Casey said Zanny lived, after Caylee went "missing", is an indication that they never believed the story from day one.....JMO

[Barbara fl.]

Didn't the Anthony's state they were leaving this up to LE and their PI?



The only problem with that is...LE and their PI were working the opposite side of the fence...(so to speak)....:angry:

[denjet]

Hey all! :seeya:(Well, you seven or eight, lol.)

Has that legal common-tater "Shaeffer" had a take yet about the implications and ramifications about the loss of the heart adhesive?

HI there!!! Can't hold a good woman down !! Glad to see ya :seeya:

(glad you kept your sig)

[Pruddennce]

OK, group hug
I'm waiting on a doc dump. Not the little leaks from the defense.
As for the heart sticker, I agree with many posts that it maybe too prejudicial for trial, it was NOT destroyed, and Dr.G photographed all portions of the duct tape. Remember, we do not have privy to autopsy photos. They are sealed.
IMO

exactly, Soggy. the ME takes pictures of EVERYTHING before they examine it. the tape around the mouth area was A HUGE piece of evidence as to WHY the jaw was not separated from the skull. the condition of this particular part of her remains is important....

IMO, yes, the pic exists. the FBI lab, pic or no pic, Im not concerned with.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence...*

[Dierdra]

Hi Newbie here! Glad to be here. I absolutely remember seeing pic of the imprint on the tape way back when? Why is it not in dump of when it happened? UMMMMM :angry: Not to worry, they have soooo much more.

[Barbara fl.]

exactly, Soggy. the ME takes pictures of EVERYTHING before they examine it. the tape around the mouth area was A HUGE piece of evidence as to WHY the jaw was not separated from the skull. the condition of this particular part of her remains is important....

IMO, yes, the pic exists. the FBI lab, pic or no pic, Im not concerned with.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence...*


I agree, they must have a picture of it....but will it be as good as the actual thing? But either way, I don't see it making a bit of difference...


Let's always keep in mind that Casey was charged with murder one before any body was even found....

[gaelicpeas]

I agree, they must have a picture of it....but will it be as good as the actual thing? But either way, I don't see it making a bit of difference...


Let's always keep in mind that Casey was charged with murder one before any body was even found....

The ironic thing IMO is that LE would WANT to preserve this heart debris impression. So it makes no sense that the FBI would willingly destroy it. Obviously, it was lost either knowingly or inadvertently in the search for fingerprints - a direct link.

Anyway, interesting afternoon. I see some went to the mall. Reminds me of that video some dear somebody posted the other day of Casey's shopping spree at Tar-jay.

[kakax]

Hi Newbie here! Glad to be here. I absolutely remember seeing pic of the imprint on the tape way back when? Why is it not in dump of when it happened? UMMMMM :angry: Not to worry, they have soooo much more.




Hey welcome!!!

I thought I remembered seeing it too. Is it possible it was a reconstruction on NG or something?

I think there is a picture somewhere. Wouldn't the remains (sorry) have gone to the ME's office first? Isn't that the first stop before identification? I can't imagine that Dr. G wouldn't have taken pictures.

I may have the order all messed up though.

[gaelicpeas]

Hey welcome!!!

I thought I remembered seeing it too. Is it possible it was a reconstruction on NG or something?

I think there is a picture somewhere. Wouldn't the remains (sorry) have gone to the ME's office first? Isn't that the first stop before identification? I can't imagine that Dr. G wouldn't have taken pictures.

I may have the order all messed up though.I am pretty sure I have seen everything that has been in discovery, and I don't remember seeing a picture of an imprint of heart residue on tape. However, I definitely have not seen all the NG shows, or the others for that matter, so it is possible that it was a reconstruction.

I DO remember seeing a sheet of heart stickers with hearts missing. All JMO.

[Anakerie]

This news about the sticker residue (or the lack of the residue) has been leaked by the defense, right? Or have I misunderstood?

Anyway, why is there so much concern over a "leak" from the defense? Would this just be something they are throwing out there in hopes that it will stick to the wall and perhaps put a touch of doubt in the mind of one potential juror?

The heart sticker was just one tiny piece of the picture. I have confidence that there is a whole lot more that the defense is worried about way beyond this one tiny piece. Joel and company have to tear down the tiny pieces because there is no way they can move the big pieces of the puzzle. Like the big piece that says "Missing 31 days and mommy parties on".

[kakax]

I am pretty sure I have seen everything that has been in discovery, and I don't remember seeing a picture of an imprint of heart residue on tape. However, I definitely have not seen all the NG shows, or the others for that matter, so it is possible that it was a reconstruction.

I DO remember seeing a sheet of heart stickers with hearts missing. All JMO.

I remember that clearly as well. I wish Desmom were here. I bet she would know.

[Lavinya]

I'm not at all worried if the sticker evidence is lost, but I hate to see many more of those kinds of mistakes.

[Pruddennce]

I recall seeing the heart sticker. But not an imprint on the duct tape.
I can´t recall seeing any of the duct tape except the one on the gas can.
Tried to find the heart sticker picture but no success. Where´s desmom btw?
Was she also "eliminated" yesterday? Glad I didn´t post.
Well, maybe today is MY day? Who knows? Anybody thinks this Coldwater is another one than the one we knew from courttv?

Hi Lavinia :seeya:

LL

this is the heart sticker found near the remains:

http://www.crimesceneblog.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/heartshaped-sticker-on-caylees-mouth.jpg

we have never seen the tape on her remains or the imprint. just a description of the outline.

it is unclear whether the photos which were taken of the remains, while being handled by Dr Utz and Dr Shultz et al (I am confident they took pics as they went along)...it appears the narrative below states the FBI lab 'noticed' the residue in that particular shape..so the ME pics may not show it, if its not pronounced.

page 6
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0121/18531372.pdf

however, I seem to recall mention of it being noted in another document, seen by others BEFORE the lab received it. someone here might recall.....

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[gaelicpeas]

This news about the sticker residue (or the lack of the residue) has been leaked by the defense, right? Or have I misunderstood?

Anyway, why is there so much concern over a "leak" from the defense? Would this just be something they are throwing out there in hopes that it will stick to the wall and perhaps put a touch of doubt in the mind of one potential juror?

The heart sticker was just one tiny piece of the picture. I have confidence that there is a whole lot more that the defense is worried about way beyond this one tiny piece. Joel and company have to tear down the tiny pieces because there is no way they can move the big pieces of the puzzle. Like the big piece that says "Missing 31 days and mommy parties on".Yes, the general supposition is that this was leaked from the defense. Can't see a reason for the prosecution to release it, and AFAIK, those are the only two parties with supposed access to it. So, I basically agree with you completely.

[gaelicpeas]

this is the heart sticker found near the remains:

http://www.crimesceneblog.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/heartshaped-sticker-on-caylees-mouth.jpg

we have never seen the tape on her remains or the imprint. just a description of the outline.

it is unclear whether the photos which were taken of the remains, while being handled by Dr Utz and Dr Shultz et al (I am confident they took pics as they went along)...it appears the narrative below states the FBI lab 'noticed' the residue in that particular shape..so the ME pics may not show it, if its not pronounced.

page 6
http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0121/18531372.pdf

however, I seem to recall mention of it being noted in another document, seen by others BEFORE the lab received it. someone here might recall.....

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*Thanks, Pru. That is how I remember things, except for your last paragraph. The only thing I remember is the FBI noticed it, which sent LE to the Anthony's home with their search warrants.

However, on a positive note, I am quite confident that the ME took LOTS of photographs, and it is possible that enhancement of these may show the imprint.

[TunaMelt]

exactly, Soggy. the ME takes pictures of EVERYTHING before they examine it. the tape around the mouth area was A HUGE piece of evidence as to WHY the jaw was not separated from the skull. the condition of this particular part of her remains is important....

IMO, yes, the pic exists. the FBI lab, pic or no pic, Im not concerned with.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence...*

Agree, Pru.

The defense is going to leak and twist and try to obscure the facts any which way they can.

IMO, this is one of those times, and it doesn't make one bit of difference re: KC Anthony's guilt.

If I recall, before this "leak" the defense was saying how thousands of girls had those sticker hearts and how do we know these are from the Anthony house -- and now they turn it around with this leak to say the heart sticker is a BIG DEAL.

It's not.

Try try again, Jose.:thumbdown:

[LadyHam]

This news about the sticker residue (or the lack of the residue) has been leaked by the defense, right? Or have I misunderstood?

Anyway, why is there so much concern over a "leak" from the defense? Would this just be something they are throwing out there in hopes that it will stick to the wall and perhaps put a touch of doubt in the mind of one potential juror?

The heart sticker was just one tiny piece of the picture. I have confidence that there is a whole lot more that the defense is worried about way beyond this one tiny piece. Joel and company have to tear down the tiny pieces because there is no way they can move the big pieces of the puzzle. Like the big piece that says "Missing 31 days and mommy parties on".

I so agree w/you. I think the heart sticker residue was just a piece of the puzzle. It's not like the entire case depends upon it. I think though that this will be an opening for the defense to start to create reasonable doubt in terms of the other evidence and it will play right into any potential "junk science" and "spoilage of evidence" theories.

I don't think the residue was carelessly destroyed. They were doing a much more important test, one for fingerprints. If they would have saved the residue at the expense of doing a proper fingerprint analylsis, the defense might have been up in arms about that. The defense could have said that since a proper analysis wasn't done that LE could have missed fingerprints that would have exonerated Casey. I think the defense is going to run w/this because it's all they've got, and even though I don't think it is big break for them, it is at least something.

[LadyHam]

I'm not at all worried if the sticker evidence is lost, but I hate to see many more of those kinds of mistakes.

I so agree w/you. I know the people doing the tests and other investigating are just human and they are going to make errors, but I just hope it is very minimal. The defense will jump on anything, any little thing that they can, which I guess they should since it is their job. I just don't want to see any careless errors that would result in justice not being served in this case.

[sully]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21104174/detail.html
Docs Show Caylee Evidence Destroyed
Fingerprint Test Apparently Destroyed Evidence Of Heart Sticker On Duct Tape
Tony Pipitone

POSTED: Thursday, September 24, 2009
UPDATED: 5:16 pm EDT September 25, 2009

snipped from article:
Former prosecutor Elizabeth Rahter told Local 6 that evidence of the heart on the duct tape could be a big help to a prosecutor trying to implicate a mother in the death of a child.

“Obviously, it's somebody who felt some love or remorse or wanted to give some sign of not just brutality,” she said of the killer, adding the heart may have been a signal that “I killed you, but I'm sorry. I killed you but, I love you anyway."

She said any mistakes by crime labs can raise doubts in jurors’ minds, if they are conditioned to the open-and-shut crime cases seen on shows like CSI.

“Obviously, you always have that human element. So I'm sure she did not intentionally say, 'I'm going to destroy this,'" Rahter said. “And she probably thought it was going to come out better when she started applying the powder used to lift fingerprints."

But, Rahter added, all is not lost for the prosecution, because Fontaine could still testify about what she saw.

“Everybody's a witness, right? So they're either a witness because they've seen something or they know something or they heard something,” Rahter said. “So this person is a person who saw something, so she'll have to testify to it.”

[Dierdra]

I agree, No careless errors in this case of the century!!!! I want it PRISTINE from the Prosecution side and they are doing a fantastic job so far:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[LadyHam]

Agree, Pru.

The defense is going to leak and twist and try to obscure the facts any which way they can.

IMO, this is one of those times, and it doesn't make one bit of difference re: KC Anthony's guilt.

If I recall, before this "leak" the defense was saying how thousands of girls had those sticker hearts and how do we know these are from the Anthony house -- and now they turn it around with this leak to say the heart sticker is a BIG DEAL.

It's not.

Try try again, Jose.:thumbdown:

I agree, the heart sticker in the grand scheme of things is not a big deal at all. After the jury hears that Casey didn't report her daughter missing for 31 days while she went on to live the good life, the sticker is not going to matter to the jury. Not one bit.

[Pruddennce]

Cindy Anthony caught on quick as to the MONEY that could be made from the death of her grandchild.

Garrison was hired to 'handle' the Anthonys...and handle he did. He got paid a LICENSING FEE which he was entitled to (sorry but it is what it is)....Cindy, LIGHTBULB, *wait a minute, you mean I can get paid a LICENSING FEE????*

so thats what they are engaged in now, for quite awhile. Garrison opened the door early for them.

so instead of getting jobs, this is their new job. Im anxiously awaiting the day it all dries up.

make note of her inquiry...no wonder NeJame bailed on them. they had full intentions of doing the circuit and getting what "larry got"...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2008-11/43322348.pdf

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[TunaMelt]

Cindy Anthony caught on quick as to the MONEY that could be made from the death of her grandchild.

Garrison was hired to 'handle' the Anthonys...and handle he did. He got paid a LICENSING FEE which he was entitled to (sorry but it is what it is)....Cindy, LIGHTBULB, *wait a minute, you mean I can get paid a LICENSING FEE????*

so thats what they are engaged in now, for quite awhile. Garrison opened the door early for them.

so instead of getting jobs, this is their new job. Im anxiously awaiting the day it all dries up.

make note of her inquiry...no wonder NeJame bailed on them. they had full intentions of doing the circuit and getting what "larry got"...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2008-11/43322348.pdf

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

They will have to pay the reknowned BAEZ LAW FIRM out of this "income" won't they?

I mean, Baez doesn't do drunks pro bono, and he's planning on making a pile of money off of KC.

How do you think Jose has been paid, or is being paid, or plans on being paid.

And for the fun of it, how much?

:sneaky:

[LadyHam]

Cindy Anthony caught on quick as to the MONEY that could be made from the death of her grandchild.

Garrison was hired to 'handle' the Anthonys...and handle he did. He got paid a LICENSING FEE which he was entitled to (sorry but it is what it is)....Cindy, LIGHTBULB, *wait a minute, you mean I can get paid a LICENSING FEE????*

so thats what they are engaged in now, for quite awhile. Garrison opened the door early for them.

so instead of getting jobs, this is their new job. Im anxiously awaiting the day it all dries up.

make note of her inquiry...no wonder NeJame bailed on them. they had full intentions of doing the circuit and getting what "larry got"...

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/media/acrobat/2008-11/43322348.pdf

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

Once this case is over with and if Casey is convicted, I can definitely see the money dry up. Maybe there would be a potential book or movie deal then, but all licensing fees will have dried up. I think their foundation's days may be numbered as well. If Casey is convicted, I can't see many wanting and willing to be associated w/it. I think even if it one day dries up, the potential is there to make enough to live a lifetime off of it. If they invest wisely, the money could last them for the rest of their lives.

[gaelicpeas]

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21104174/detail.html
Docs Show Caylee Evidence Destroyed
Fingerprint Test Apparently Destroyed Evidence Of Heart Sticker On Duct Tape
Tony Pipitone

POSTED: Thursday, September 24, 2009
UPDATED: 5:16 pm EDT September 25, 2009

snipped from article:
Former prosecutor Elizabeth Rahter told Local 6 that evidence of the heart on the duct tape could be a big help to a prosecutor trying to implicate a mother in the death of a child.

“Obviously, it's somebody who felt some love or remorse or wanted to give some sign of not just brutality,” she said of the killer, adding the heart may have been a signal that “I killed you, but I'm sorry. I killed you but, I love you anyway."

She said any mistakes by crime labs can raise doubts in jurors’ minds, if they are conditioned to the open-and-shut crime cases seen on shows like CSI.

“Obviously, you always have that human element. So I'm sure she did not intentionally say, 'I'm going to destroy this,'" Rahter said. “And she probably thought it was going to come out better when she started applying the powder used to lift fingerprints."

But, Rahter added, all is not lost for the prosecution, because Fontaine could still testify about what she saw.

“Everybody's a witness, right? So they're either a witness because they've seen something or they know something or they heard something,” Rahter said. “So this person is a person who saw something, so she'll have to testify to it.”
See, this is the irony. It would ABSOLUTELY be in the prosecution's best interests to have this heart residue imprint as evidence, so the fact that it got "destroyed" in the search for direct fingerprint evidence, whether knowingly for the search for justice or inadvertently in the search for justice - it makes ZERO sense for the FBI to blatantly destroy this in some effort to discredit the defendant. JMO

[Pruddennce]

They will have to pay the reknowned BAEZ LAW FIRM out of this "income" won't they?

I mean, Baez doesn't do drunks pro bono, and he's planning on making a pile of money off of KC.

How do you think Jose has been paid, or is being paid, or plans on being paid.

And for the fun of it, how much?

:sneaky:

I tend to go back and forth on that:

on one hand: the anthonys 'giving up their pity me tour money' and 'alibi tour' money: I tend to think they are enjoying the newfound funds and wont turn it over for her defense....it may not seem like alot of money, $6K here, $10K there for example, but to them its a goldmine...

all they have to do is show up, get in makeup and talk in parables.

then there's my other hand: old habits do not die. Cindy wants her to be NOT GUILTY, not because she feels she isnt guilty, but because its a direct reflection on HER. I do believe at times she is funding Baez thru Casey....but wouldnt they need to have some type of agreement to pay him?

we still have not discovered what 'arrangements' Baez has that the court did not allow to be made public...only that it wasnt a 'conflict'.

Im still curious...and I do believe we havent heard the end of Baez and his 'secret'. once trial rolls around, he cant have it both ways, no money, and secret money.

perhaps our esteemed lawyers can talk about that again, as they previously did a few threads ago with regard to experts, indigent, wanting money for this or that....

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence......*

[BettyC]

See, this is the irony. It would ABSOLUTELY be in the prosecution's best interests to have this heart residue imprint as evidence, so the fact that it got "destroyed" in the search for direct fingerprint evidence, whether knowingly for the search for justice or inadvertently in the search for justice - it makes ZERO sense for the FBI to blatantly destroy this in some effort to discredit the defendant. JMO

True, but if she's put on the stand to testify to it the defense will just try and make the investigators look sloppy. If they damaged this piece of evidence, what else did they damage/destroy. (what the defense will say)

I don't think it's important enough to bring it up now that the residue is gone. The fact that her mouth/head was duct taped is horrific enough.

[kakax]

There have been NO PICTURES released of tape from the skull. There were pics of other tape pieces at remains site and a picture of plastic type sticker on what looked like "scrapping" cardboard. That pictured sticker was frmly attached to the card and NOT the one that may have been on the skull. The one from the skull likely to be thin paper sticker easily dissolved/gone. It was never found.
POSSIBLE matches of similar stickers were photographed during search of the Anthony home.



Thanks Trim! I think I'm losing it LOL!!!

[LadyHam]

They will have to pay the reknowned BAEZ LAW FIRM out of this "income" won't they?

I mean, Baez doesn't do drunks pro bono, and he's planning on making a pile of money off of KC.

How do you think Jose has been paid, or is being paid, or plans on being paid.

And for the fun of it, how much?

:sneaky:

Bolding by me....

I think the publicity just may be enough for him. After this case is over and done with, he will be a high profile defense attorney and may be in demand as a TH on the talk show circuit. The publicity this case will generate will be priceless. You just can't put a price tag on it.

[Pruddennce]

True, but if she's put on the stand to testify to it the defense will just try and make the investigators look sloppy. If they damaged this piece of evidence, what else did they damage/destroy. (what the defense will say)

I don't think it's important enough to bring it up now that the residue is gone. The fact that her mouth/head was duct taped is horrific enough.

it is horrific.....and the fact that the ME stated that the tape was affixed prior to decomposition. (link below)

Caylee could have been dead (but then why the tape after the 'terminal event'?) or Caylee was taped before (makes sense it was possibly part of the murdering event).....afterall, she wasnt found tossed...she was concealed inside bags which allows for the thought process that she died with the tape on her mouth. IMO

prior to decomposition:

page 14

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/06/19/caylee.anthony.autopsy.pdf

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[cherish]

It doesn't matter if the sticker adhesive is no longer there. I saw it. Maybe not with my eyes, but the image will remain just as vivid and clear forever in my mind. The defense can't take that image away from me.

[Pruddennce]

Bolding by me....

I think the publicity just may be enough for him. After this case is over and done with, he will be a high profile defense attorney and may be in demand as a TH on the talk show circuit. The publicity this case will generate will be priceless. You just can't put a price tag on it.

I doubt it :D

especially when he loses. or gets replaced. or tossed.

IMO:

He is not very bright as it relates to proper decorum in a given situation: he shows up at the Ritz, to meet with the Anthonys, the PI's, an ABC rep and LA and his gf? on the eve that a small child's body is being recovered...... and none of these people were his clients?

why was he there?

IMO, he will not be in demand. in fact, he disgraced himself in front of the media talking about HIMSELF and how he wanted them to stop CRITICIZING him. he isnt very professional. and he has a difficult time preparing motions and presenting them verbally.

I dont see him evolving into a hotshot, winning this case or losing this case. in fact, I see him struggling, demanding his pay from 'whoever' is supposed to be paying him. so far, the courtroom motions are difficult for him to discuss at the podium without first telling the judge ALL ABOUT HIS PROFESSIONALISM. ??????

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[sully]

True, but if she's put on the stand to testify to it the defense will just try and make the investigators look sloppy. If they damaged this piece of evidence, what else did they damage/destroy. (what the defense will say)

I don't think it's important enough to bring it up now that the residue is gone. The fact that her mouth/head was duct taped is horrific enough.

I agree!! Just leave it alone! However, if the defense calls her to show sloppy work then they will have opened up their own pandora's box that the prosecution can use to their advantage!

[TunaMelt]

Bolding by me....

I think the publicity just may be enough for him. After this case is over and done with, he will be a high profile defense attorney and may be in demand as a TH on the talk show circuit. The publicity this case will generate will be priceless. You just can't put a price tag on it.

Publicity is priceless, you're right -- but he's in it for $$, there's no doubt in my mind.

And his intention was to make it off of this case.

Remember his felon pal, Todd Black? He's the money guy, imo he used to front for Jose, and my thinking is he's still doing it -- just not on the public payroll.

If Jose had any scruples, he might just walk away with the publicity, but he doesn't. He's got expensive tastes, and he's not the kind of guy to save for something he wants.

And who pays his "staff"?

:confused:

[TunaMelt]

I doubt it :D

especially when he loses. or gets replaced. or tossed.

IMO:

He is not very bright as it relates to proper decorum in a given situation: he shows up at the Ritz, to meet with the Anthonys, the PI's, an ABC rep and LA and his gf? on the eve that a small child's body is being recovered...... and none of these people were his clients?

why was he there?

IMO, he will not be in demand. in fact, he disgraced himself in front of the media talking about HIMSELF and how he wanted them to stop CRITICIZING him. he isnt very professional. and he has a difficult time preparing motions and presenting them verbally.

I dont see him evolving into a hotshot, winning this case or losing this case. in fact, I see him struggling, demanding his pay from 'whoever' is supposed to be paying him. so far, the courtroom motions are difficult for him to discuss at the podium without first telling the judge ALL ABOUT HIS PROFESSIONALISM. ??????

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

Yes.
Yes, indeed.

He underestimated "high profile attornies." He thought all they did was show up on television and talk. He didn't realize that, while they are big face men and talkers, they also practice law, and they didn't become high profile without having some notches on their bedposts already.

I think Jose is going to be an also-ran, before he even gets out of the gate.

My heart bleedeth.
:sneaky:

[LadyHam]

I doubt it :D

especially when he loses. or gets replaced. or tossed.

IMO:

He is not very bright as it relates to proper decorum in a given situation: he shows up at the Ritz, to meet with the Anthonys, the PI's, an ABC rep and LA and his gf? on the eve that a small child's body is being recovered...... and none of these people were his clients?

why was he there?

IMO, he will not be in demand. in fact, he disgraced himself in front of the media talking about HIMSELF and how he wanted them to stop CRITICIZING him. he isnt very professional. and he has a difficult time preparing motions and presenting them verbally.

I dont see him evolving into a hotshot, winning this case or losing this case. in fact, I see him struggling, demanding his pay from 'whoever' is supposed to be paying him. so far, the courtroom motions are difficult for him to discuss at the podium without first telling the judge ALL ABOUT HIS PROFESSIONALISM. ??????

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

I hope you are right, Pru, but you know how they say any publicity (even negative) is good publicity. Unfortunately, I think JB will benefit for this more than we think he will.:sneaky:

[frances1]

Publicity is priceless, you're right -- but he's in it for $$, there's no doubt in my mind.

And his intention was to make it off of this case.

Remember his felon pal, Todd Black? He's the money guy, imo he used to front for Jose, and my thinking is he's still doing it -- just not on the public payroll.

If Jose had any scruples, he might just walk away with the publicity, but he doesn't. He's got expensive tastes, and he's not the kind of guy to save for something he wants.

And who pays his "staff"?

:confused:

Tuna, do you know the source of Todd Black's money?

[TunaMelt]

I tend to go back and forth on that:

on one hand: the anthonys 'giving up their pity me tour money' and 'alibi tour' money: I tend to think they are enjoying the newfound funds and wont turn it over for her defense....it may not seem like alot of money, $6K here, $10K there for example, but to them its a goldmine...

all they have to do is show up, get in makeup and talk in parables.

then there's my other hand: old habits do not die. Cindy wants her to be NOT GUILTY, not because she feels she isnt guilty, but because its a direct reflection on HER. I do believe at times she is funding Baez thru Casey....but wouldnt they need to have some type of agreement to pay him?

we still have not discovered what 'arrangements' Baez has that the court did not allow to be made public...only that it wasnt a 'conflict'.

Im still curious...and I do believe we havent heard the end of Baez and his 'secret'. once trial rolls around, he cant have it both ways, no money, and secret money.

perhaps our esteemed lawyers can talk about that again, as they previously did a few threads ago with regard to experts, indigent, wanting money for this or that....

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence......*

Yes, again.

This is where I think that Todd Black is involved. He didn't just go away because Jose told him too, because he was "found out." He's still Jose's connection to media, I believe. The media market, I mean.

I'd love to know what the agreements are, I hope we do know someday.

I'm just curious to see how dirty Jose's hands were before this case really got going -- it would show what his intentions were re: the case at the outset. Seeking justice for his client and getting paid for his work? or just getting paid. period.?

I think we know, but I want to SEE for myself. I dislike him that much.

[BettyC]

Yes, again.

This is where I think that Todd Black is involved. He didn't just go away because Jose told him too, because he was "found out." He's still Jose's connection to media, I believe. The media market, I mean.

I'd love to know what the agreements are, I hope we do know someday.

I'm just curious to see how dirty Jose's hands were before this case really got going -- it would show what his intentions were re: the case at the outset. Seeking justice for his client and getting paid for his work? or just getting paid. period.?

I think we know, but I want to SEE for myself. I dislike him that much.

Didn't "Todd Black" say that Jose couldn't fire him because he was hired by the rich Connecticut family?

[TunaMelt]

Tuna, do you know the source of Todd Black's money?

No I don't.

But he's done several years of prison time, I believe he blackmailed a newswoman in L.A. or something like that, and he went in again for some sort of scam.

His address was in Nashville, and it had to do with "Media Events." He'd previously been located for a time in Florida...

I think he's a small time scam artist who's not really good at what he does -- he's a lot like his business "partner" (imo) Jose Baez. Also, Jose's wife's phone was one of the numbers listed as a contact for Todd Black, on his letterhead, so they are definitely connected, Black and Baez.

Jose finds a high profile case and he peddles it to Todd Black who uses his media contacts to sell it -- which is one reason that I believe Jose didn't want this case to end in a plea deal, because it would make for a much much better movie or whatever to have it go to trial. You know?

There will be movies -- and I think Todd Black and Jose are involved in the making of those movies, or whatever they can sell to the media.

Jose catches the trial, Black sells it. It ought to work, except neither of them are very good at what they do.

Too bad, huh?
:sneaky::w00t:

[TunaMelt]

Didn't "Todd Black" say that Jose couldn't fire him because he was hired by the rich Connecticut family?

I don't remember the rich Connecticut family and Todd Black. I do remember talk about some sort of Connecticut money involving Cindy and George Anthony, though.

I think.

My brain freezes now and again.
So much information, not enough room in my head.

Maybe it was Todd Black, I'm getting tired...I'm experiencing brain freeze, now, in fact.

:wink:

[apothecary]

Yes, again.

This is where I think that Todd Black is involved. He didn't just go away because Jose told him too, because he was "found out." He's still Jose's connection to media, I believe. The media market, I mean.

I'd love to know what the agreements are, I hope we do know someday.

I'm just curious to see how dirty Jose's hands were before this case really got going -- it would show what his intentions were re: the case at the outset. Seeking justice for his client and getting paid for his work? or just getting paid. period.?

I think we know, but I want to SEE for myself. I dislike him that much.

I agree entirely with this statement.The money is coming from the media.Did Baez not have a media relation company in his wife's or daughter's name?I thought I remember something like that early in the case but am not really sure.

[gaelicpeas]

I lose bits too:smile:

Brain so full bits fall out. Longer this goes on before trial, harder it is to hang on to bits of info.

That could be part of the Defence cunning plan? Even witnesses must be struggling to retain memories? :tongueside:Of COURSE it is the defense plan... delay, delay, delay.... until people forget, people don't care, whatever it takes.... WHY should the defense want to go trial NOW?

JMO

[gaelicpeas]

I doubt it :D

especially when he loses. or gets replaced. or tossed.

IMO:

He is not very bright as it relates to proper decorum in a given situation: he shows up at the Ritz, to meet with the Anthonys, the PI's, an ABC rep and LA and his gf? on the eve that a small child's body is being recovered...... and none of these people were his clients?

why was he there?

IMO, he will not be in demand. in fact, he disgraced himself in front of the media talking about HIMSELF and how he wanted them to stop CRITICIZING him. he isnt very professional. and he has a difficult time preparing motions and presenting them verbally.

I dont see him evolving into a hotshot, winning this case or losing this case. in fact, I see him struggling, demanding his pay from 'whoever' is supposed to be paying him. so far, the courtroom motions are difficult for him to discuss at the podium without first telling the judge ALL ABOUT HIS PROFESSIONALISM. ??????

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*Good points.. but in today's internet advertising world, just saying he was involved with this case will bring him business. Some folks just don't do their research - they go for the names with the most hits, and Jose certainly has those hits. JMO, and I am sorry to say.

[denjet]

I doubt it :D

especially when he loses. or gets replaced. or tossed.

IMO:

He is not very bright as it relates to proper decorum in a given situation: he shows up at the Ritz, to meet with the Anthonys, the PI's, an ABC rep and LA and his gf? on the eve that a small child's body is being recovered...... and none of these people were his clients?

why was he there?

IMO, he will not be in demand. in fact, he disgraced himself in front of the media talking about HIMSELF and how he wanted them to stop CRITICIZING him. he isnt very professional. and he has a difficult time preparing motions and presenting them verbally.

I dont see him evolving into a hotshot, winning this case or losing this case. in fact, I see him struggling, demanding his pay from 'whoever' is supposed to be paying him. so far, the courtroom motions are difficult for him to discuss at the podium without first telling the judge ALL ABOUT HIS PROFESSIONALISM. ??????

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*
Hi Pru!
Exactly! I too think he will be the laughing stock of the legal community and nobody will be looking to hire him, either as a lawyer or a TH !!
His dreams of grandeur will fizzle with the guilty verdict ... JMO

[denjet]

Publicity is priceless, you're right -- but he's in it for $$, there's no doubt in my mind.

And his intention was to make it off of this case.

Remember his felon pal, Todd Black? He's the money guy, imo he used to front for Jose, and my thinking is he's still doing it -- just not on the public payroll.

If Jose had any scruples, he might just walk away with the publicity, but he doesn't. He's got expensive tastes, and he's not the kind of guy to save for something he wants.

And who pays his "staff"?

:confused:
Hi Tuna!
and not the kind of guy who wants to hand over his windfall to anyone else ... or for anything like the CDs he squawked about paying for ... I'll be he won't be paying to depose any of TES either ....

[gaelicpeas]

Anybody here?

I am not sure what is going on with the court schedule. It seems we have numerouse motions pending... and no word on a court hearing. This is true for all 3 cases - criminal, fraud, and civil. WTH is going on?

[gaelicpeas]

Anybody here?

I am not sure what is going on with the court schedule. It seems we have numerouse motions pending... and no word on a court hearing. This is true for all 3 cases - criminal, fraud, and civil. WTH is going on?
hello?

hmm... hopefully someone is here. So, if we look at the defense motions from a week or so ago, they are stipulating that the prosecution needs to respond within so many days, and then they are saying they (as the defense) get another few days to respond.... so best I can figure, we will have a hearing within the month.

[gaelicpeas]

on here if anyone is still interested in posting otherwise I'm closing the forum either for the night or for good if no one wants to follow the rules and discuss the case and not me.

ETA: I'll check at 10:15 pm ET.There are quite a few of us here that would like to discuss the case. I think I have posted quite a few things in the last hour or so worth discussing. JMO

[spiritwolf46]

hello?

hmm... hopefully someone is here. So, if we look at the defense motions from a week or so ago, they are stipulating that the prosecution needs to respond within so many days, and then they are saying they (as the defense) get another few days to respond.... so best I can figure, we will have a hearing within the month.

Hiya Gaelic,

I am here. I have been lurking forever but only because I just do not seem to have enough time anymore.

I am not at all scared of the latest developments. I just think that the defense HAS to do things of this nature. I am sure that all that was involved did the very best and this is just another thing that the defense has to do.

There may just be another hearing, that is for sure. I guess we will all wait and see what happens.

I think that it will go in the Prosecutors way though.

[gaelicpeas]

Hiya Gaelic,

I am here. I have been lurking forever but only because I just do not seem to have enough time anymore.

I am not at all scared of the latest developments. I just think that the defense HAS to do things of this nature. I am sure that all that was involved did the very best and this is just another thing that the defense has to do.

There may just be another hearing, that is for sure. I guess we will all wait and see what happens.

I think that it will go in the Prosecutors way though.ITA... if a defense team has nothing.. then they have to go after anything. It is their job, and we need to get used to this kind of posturing. JMO

[gaelicpeas]

hmmm... either everyone has been banned or no one has anything to say.

hmmm.....

So................. we are due for a huge doc dump. At least we should get the pics of Casey's tattoo (ick, IMO). So, do you think we have seen all of the prosecution's discovery, or are they holding out on some things?

[spiritwolf46]

hmmm... either everyone has been banned or no one has anything to say.

hmmm.....

So................. we are due for a huge doc dump. At least we should get the pics of Casey's tattoo (ick, IMO). So, do you think we have seen all of the prosecution's discovery, or are they holding out on some things?

I would like to say that they are holding out, but I am not sure that they are allowed to do so. Do you know? I PRAY that there is a lot more than we know at this point and even though they have a lot, they also have her wrapped so tightly, there is no other way than the death penalty.

ETA: I meant by the Sunshine law, I was not sure if they were allowed to hold back anything. ;)

[Pam1569]

hmmm... either everyone has been banned or no one has anything to say.

hmmm.....

So................. we are due for a huge doc dump. At least we should get the pics of Casey's tattoo (ick, IMO). So, do you think we have seen all of the prosecution's discovery, or are they holding out on some things?

gaelicpeas, I do believe that they have a lot more to come in dumps but I also believe that the firm has a lot that we will never see til the trial. jmo

[LadyHam]

hmmm... either everyone has been banned or no one has anything to say.

hmmm.....

So................. we are due for a huge doc dump. At least we should get the pics of Casey's tattoo (ick, IMO). So, do you think we have seen all of the prosecution's discovery, or are they holding out on some things?

I think we are due for a big doc dump next week. Hopefully it will be on Monday.:thumbup: I think last week we were promised one in the next few weeks so hopefully it is forthcoming very soon.

I hope we hear something about the fraud trial very soon. I wonder if it will be scheduled for sometime this year? I fear if we get too far into 2010 the defense may argue it is interfering w/the murder trial too much:unsure:

I think the case so far against Casey is very strong, but I certainly hope the prosecution has at least a few things up their sleeves yet. We will see!

[spiritwolf46]

By the smirks and smiles on the prosecutors face every time we see them in court, I would bet they're holding something we don't know about.
Of course, that's just my opinion.

But the question was about the Prosecution. Do you or anyone know if the Prosecution can hold things back even though Fla. has the Sunshine law?

Thanks in advance!

[spiritwolf46]

I think we are due for a big doc dump next week. Hopefully it will be on Monday.:thumbup: I think last week we were promised one in the next few weeks so hopefully it is forthcoming very soon.

I hope we hear something about the fraud trial very soon. I wonder if it will be scheduled for sometime this year? I fear if we get too far into 2010 the defense may argue it is interfering w/the murder trial too much:unsure:

I think the case so far against Casey is very strong, but I certainly hope the prosecution has at least a few things up their sleeves yet. We will see!

Bold mine:

I totally agree!

Night all! Have a safe and great eve!

[LadyHam]

I would like to say that they are holding out, but I am not sure that they are allowed to do so. Do you know? I PRAY that there is a lot more than we know at this point and even though they have a lot, they also have her wrapped so tightly, there is no other way than the death penalty.

ETA: I meant by the Sunshine law, I was not sure if they were allowed to hold back anything. ;)

Well, we know they are holding out a few things. There are some interviews we haven't heard yet (Mark Hawkins comes to mind) and there is some evidence such as the maggot evidence that hasn't been released yet. Why, I don't know. :shrug: Hopefully there is some good evidence there and LE is just making sure to thoroughly investigate it before handing it over to the prosecution. I think there is so much evidence in this case already. What we already know now seems to be more than most cases have as evidence as a whole, so we will just have to keep the faith that justice will be served.

[LadyHam]

By the smirks and smiles on the prosecutors face every time we see them in court, I would bet they're holding something we don't know about.
Of course, that's just my opinion.

Oh, that is a very good point! The state may be thinking 'just wait till trial', lol!:biggrin:
'

[Lapis]

Oh, that is a very good point! The state may be thinking 'just wait till trial', lol!:biggrin:
'

I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs of the Florida Sunshine laws, but I do know that they cannot withhold anything from the defense. JMO

[LadyHam]

gaelicpeas, I do believe that they have a lot more to come in dumps but I also believe that the firm has a lot that we will never see til the trial. jmo

I agree. There seems to be numerous doc dumps that the defense got that we never got to see. Maybe those doc dumps contain some very incriminating evidence against Casey? I just wonder why we never got to see them? Maybe the evidence is just too incriminating and would interfere w/Casey's right to get a fair trial if it was released now?

[LadyHam]

Bold mine:

I totally agree!

Night all! Have a safe and great eve!

Good night! :seeya:

[LadyHam]

I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs of the Florida Sunshine laws, but I do know that they cannot withhold anything from the defense. JMO

I know they won't hold things until trial, but there may be some things that haven't been released yet because they are still being investigated. That is what I meant.

I don't know all the ins and outs of the sunshine laws either, but I do know that they can't hold out anything until the trial because then they wouldn't be even able to present it. I just hope the state knows things we don't know because I want this case to be solid by the time it goes to trial. I also have to admit I wish the state's attorney would quit w/his smirking and laughing at JB during the court hearings and just effectively do his job.:unsure: It's all about justice for Caylee, no matter where that leads.

[Spots]

I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs of the Florida Sunshine laws, but I do know that they cannot withhold anything from the defense. JMO

I thought they could withhold evidence under certain circumstances? Eventually, they have to cough it up, but not ~always~ quickly.

Or, I'm totally delusional on this subject.

[gaelicpeas]

I think we are due for a big doc dump next week. Hopefully it will be on Monday.:thumbup: I think last week we were promised one in the next few weeks so hopefully it is forthcoming very soon.

I hope we hear something about the fraud trial very soon. I wonder if it will be scheduled for sometime this year? I fear if we get too far into 2010 the defense may argue it is interfering w/the murder trial too much:unsure:

I think the case so far against Casey is very strong, but I certainly hope the prosecution has at least a few things up their sleeves yet. We will see!As to the fraud case... I just don't know what to think about that. The judge in that case seems to be... ummmmm... I dunno... but he seems to have some other agenda or something. Doesn't make sense to me. JMO

[Pam1569]

I agree. There seems to be numerous doc dumps that the defense got that we never got to see. Maybe those doc dumps contain some very incriminating evidence against Casey? I just wonder why we never got to see them? Maybe the evidence is just too incriminating and would interfere w/Casey's right to get a fair trial if it was released now?

Hi LadyHam, I figured that there were 7 doc dumps that were released in March that was never released and the next doc dump that we did get after that contained the Morgan depositions which were done on April 4th. And IIRC just before that doc dump of the depos is when the DP went back on the table and that was on April 13th. So my feeling is that the State is turning over everything they have to the defense the way the law states. jmo

[gaelicpeas]

But the question was about the Prosecution. Do you or anyone know if the Prosecution can hold things back even though Fla. has the Sunshine law?

Thanks in advance!I have no legal expertise whatsoever, other than following these cases and reading novels. However, the Brass Ring novel that recently came out seems to say that either side can hold onto stuff until close to trial. But, everything has to be released before trial. Hope I got this right - maybe Katprint or Lapis can weigh in on this.

[LadyHam]

As to the fraud case... I just don't know what to think about that. The judge in that case seems to be... ummmmm... I dunno... but he seems to have some other agenda or something. Doesn't make sense to me. JMO

Are you referring to the civil case? The judge in the fraud case is Judge Strickland, the same judge that is handling the murder trial. I like the way Strickland runs things in his courtroom, but I wish he would make a ruling on when the fraud trial can begin. Hopefully it is soon. I'd like to see Casey be accoutable for some of her recent actions and I can see no way she will get out of these fraud charges. No way.

I think it is Judge Rodriquez that is handling the civil trial and let's just say he has a very different style from Judge Strickland.:sneaky:

[Pam1569]

As to the fraud case... I just don't know what to think about that. The judge in that case seems to be... ummmmm... I dunno... but he seems to have some other agenda or something. Doesn't make sense to me. JMO

gaelicpeas, the fraud case is held in the court of Judge Strickland as well as the murder 1 case. The civil case is held by Judge Rodriquez and that is the judge I believe that you are speaking about. I do think he has to be very careful to not interfere with the murder case with his decisions and that is why he has put off the next hearing til January. jmo

[gaelicpeas]

You are the only one who has replied, thank you, even this request gets ignored.

Yes, your posts have been worth discussing and I see a few are answering you. I'm going to leave it open for now.Thank you. This forum is important to a lot of folks.

[LadyHam]

Thank you. This forum is important to a lot of folks.

Yes it is. It is the best place to get information on the case and it has the BEST posters here.:thumbup:

[gaelicpeas]

Are you referring to the civil case? The judge in the fraud case is Judge Strickland, the same judge that is handling the murder trial. I like the way Strickland runs things in his courtroom, but I wish he would make a ruling on when the fraud trial can begin. Hopefully it is soon. I'd like to see Casey be accoutable for some of her recent actions and I can see no way she will get out of these fraud charges. No way.

I think it is Judge Rodriquez that is handling the civil trial and let's just say he has a very different style from Judge Strickland.:sneaky:
Sorry, my bad.. yes, I was referring to the civil case.

[gaelicpeas]

If I was a gambler, I'd bet Judge Rodriguez was a "Defense" attorney before a Judge. Of course, that's just my opinion from watching him at the bench. He won't make a decision or he has one already made before the parties talk or he does not allow the parties to finish pleading their case and issues.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing and hearing from this Judge last week.Interesting... I had some qualms back when the first hearing was held in the civil case. Guess time will tell......

[Lapis]

I thought they could withhold evidence under certain circumstances? Eventually, they have to cough it up, but not ~always~ quickly.

Or, I'm totally delusional on this subject.

The state has an obligation to turn over the evidence as it is received. IIRC I read somewhere that it is 15 days after receipt in Florida. So, IMO they cannot withhold evidence. I doubt that the prosecution would jeopardize the case by being caught dragging their feet on discovery. Remember most things (reports and statements) are dated in some way. So, that would be some indication of when they were prepared. The state has already produced their witness list, so any statements from those witnesses one would expect the prosecution to have read in order to determine if they intend to use that witness.

Now, LE can hold certain evidence if that particular aspect of the case is still "under investigation". But I would venture to guess that they better be able to demonstrate what they were still investigating. As a defense attorney I would be looking very closely at that sort of thing. JMO

[AbbyNormal]

You are the only one who has replied, thank you, even this request gets ignored.

Yes, your posts have been worth discussing and I see a few are answering you. I'm going to leave it open for now.

:blushing: Just now saw this. Thank you for leaving the board open.

[Lapis]

If you really wish to keep the forum open may I suggest that we stop discussing Coldwater and keep to the subject at hand?

[AbbyNormal]

As to the fraud case... I just don't know what to think about that. The judge in that case seems to be... ummmmm... I dunno... but he seems to have some other agenda or something. Doesn't make sense to me. JMOHi Gaelicpeas,
I think you might have the fraud case mixed up with the defamation case? Amy's check fraud case is being heard by Judge Strickland, I think, and Judge Rodriguez is over the Zenaida case.

[seeing_eye]

Hi Lapis,

I know we have had some disagreements about various things related to this case in the past.

However, we are now down to 3 posters the best I can tell. This does not make for a good discussion. You and I can go on forever about things.. but we need other people to enter into our discussions, IMO.

I'm still here and I'm waiting for a doc dump! Where is it? I thought we were supposed to get one by now?

[Anakerie]

on here if anyone is still interested in posting otherwise I'm closing the forum either for the night or for good if no one wants to follow the rules and discuss the case and not me.

ETA: I'll check at 10:15 pm ET.
I just now found this post, so I'm sorry if I'm late in answering.

I am still interested in the case, and this board is the main source of news about the case that I use. News media in California aren't terribly interested in it..

[AbbyNormal]

If I was a gambler, I'd bet Judge Rodriguez was a "Defense" attorney before a Judge. Of course, that's just my opinion from watching him at the bench. He won't make a decision or he has one already made before the parties talk or he does not allow the parties to finish pleading their case and issues.
I couldn't believe what I was seeing and hearing from this Judge last week.That was very interesting, wasn't it? I do not understand courtroom procedures, but it just all seemed very odd. He was openly coaching Ms. Tennis to object at certain times. It didn't seem a very fair or impartial way to handle the situation. Really had me scratching my head over some of it.

[Lapis]

I don't hold grudges. LOL

Perhaps part of the problem is there is really nothing new to discuss. We could use a document drop. JMO

[Pruddennce]

hmmm... either everyone has been banned or no one has anything to say.

hmmm.....

So................. we are due for a huge doc dump. At least we should get the pics of Casey's tattoo (ick, IMO). So, do you think we have seen all of the prosecution's discovery, or are they holding out on some things?

the tattoo is an important piece of evidence as to exactly 'what Casey was doing with her time' while her daughter was supposedly 'kidnapped'.

and....that she made yet ANOTHER appt that coming saturday (which she couldnt keep due to her arrest).

sticky residue on the tape, somewhat compromised, say news reports, kind of drops down on the list of significance when compared to all of the other evidence...namely the Pooh blanket....

Cindy A withheld information. when you put that up side by side with her ZILLION words and waste of time interviews with LE, that deliberate ommission of information turned out to be evidence...

......that blanket, missing from the home was found with the remains: (and yes, I do believe it came from the home)....

it NOW holds significance as to WHY she withheld that information. it was either (a) something she witnessed Casey removing from the home, with or without Caylee in tow or: (b) identifies a timeline as to when she removed it from the home when she was sneaking back in to 'get things' after she left.....the timeline of course being when she decided to dispose of Caylee.

I choose (b): because according to GA, she was back at the home and he had interaction with her. also neighbor Burner saw her car there several times backed in.

Cindy knows when she took the blanket. she deliberately compromised the efforts of LE to establish a timeline, not just as to when she was missing....but when she may have been in a deceased state (which of course they have to weigh as well).

so yes, IMO, LE has not released a few interviews: and of course, IMO, the state has turned that information over, but the media has not been made aware to readily request it.......I dont think the defense would want interviews such as Mark Hawkins out there, because IMO, MH has revealed some pretty damaging information.

for instance: (my guess): Casey indicated a desire to go see him and he (unknowingly) was going to help her make the trip. and she, most likely told him Caylee was going to be home with her nanny or parents.

pretty damaging....all of course is my 'guess' as to why she was conversing with MH more often during the period Caylee was no longer with us.

and of course, Im waiting on maggot evidence :D

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence......*

[cherish]

IIRC the defense filed a motion to suppress the jail video of Casey after Caylee was identified.

Does the defense get to file a motion for any evidence they deem incriminating, and would that motion be made public?

.

[AbbyNormal]

The state has an obligation to turn over the evidence as it is received. IIRC I read somewhere that it is 15 days after receipt in Florida. So, IMO they cannot withhold evidence. I doubt that the prosecution would jeopardize the case by being caught dragging their feet on discovery. Remember most things (reports and statements) are dated in some way. So, that would be some indication of when they were prepared. The state has already produced their witness list, so any statements from those witnesses one would expect the prosecution to have read in order to determine if they intend to use that witness.

Now, LE can hold certain evidence if that particular aspect of the case is still "under investigation". But I would venture to guess that they better be able to demonstrate what they were still investigating. As a defense attorney I would be looking very closely at that sort of thing. JMOLapis, How do state rules apply to any information the FBI has? Or do they apply at all, do you know? Could information the FBI has be considered part of an ongoing investigation?

[Lapis]

That was very interesting, wasn't it? I do not understand courtroom procedures, but it just all seemed very odd. He was openly coaching Ms. Tennis to object at certain times. It didn't seem a very fair or impartial way to handle the situation. Really had me scratching my head over some of it.

When I first started practicing law (a hundred years ago) judges routinely ruled on objections before they were made. It was actually a very good way to learn. I can still remember how it felt the first time I stood to make an objection and actually knew what I was objecting to beforehand. Now some judges fail to make a ruling even when an objection is made. I find myself saying to myself "can you please make a ruling....I don't care if you rule against me, just rule!!!!!"

I also find myself watching law shows and objecting to the tv. LOL

JMO

[Lapis]

IIRC the defense filed a motion to suppress the jail video of Casey after Caylee was identified.

Does the defense get to file a motion for any evidence they deem incriminating, and would that motion be made public?

o/t I have to admit that I've been reading this board since day 31. The majority of the posters on this board usually stay on topic. Most of the posters have been respectful to other fellow posters.

I never thought that when some referred to the Anthony's in an abbreviated manner that they meant anything else.

Maybe the only poster that should have been reprimanded is a poster with connections.

Anyways, I hope that this board is soon back on track.

Either party can make a motion to withhold information from the public. You will recall it was the prosecution that moved to seal the autopsy. Additionally, the prosecution has taken no position with regard to the motions filed by the defense. It is the media that has opposed these motions. But yes, a motion would have to be made to prevent publication of the evidence. The motions would be a matter of public record. JMO

[Spots]

the tattoo is an important piece of evidence as to exactly 'what Casey was doing with her time' while her daughter was supposedly 'kidnapped'.

<respectfully snipped. *very* respectfully snipped.>
IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence......*

I am very curious why the tattoo required a CD full of pictures and only *1* piece of paper regarding the tattoo.

With my luck, the paper says something like, "Here's the CD." But I remain hopeful for bombshell information.

[Lapis]

Lapis, How do state rules apply to any information the FBI has? Or do they apply at all, do you know? Could information the FBI has be considered part of an ongoing investigation?

The FBI dances to its own drummer. It has always been my experience that when part of a state investigation, they rarely take any position. They are just to busy to make these decisions. They process the evidence and report. The request is usually made by local LE so the FBI sends their reports to them. It is then up to local LE to turn things over to the prosecution.

JMO

[cherish]

I am very curious why the tattoo required a CD full of pictures and only *1* piece of paper regarding the tattoo.

With my luck, the paper says something like, "Here's the CD." But I remain hopeful for bombshell information.

Yes, I wondered about that myself. How many ways can you view a tattoo? They seem rather one dimensional to me.

[Dierdra]

Hey, I am an advocate for Our Caylee and will never go anywhere. I hope and Pray that she will be "Released" . Let's All Take A Time Out And Pray And Relax. Stop and Listen > Thank God She is In Heaven. Thank the Lord She is where she Is!!!!!!!!!!! Love and Prayers for Caylee>:rolleyes:

[Pruddennce]

I am very curious why the tattoo required a CD full of pictures and only *1* piece of paper regarding the tattoo.

With my luck, the paper says something like, "Here's the CD." But I remain hopeful for bombshell information.
do we know its a 'full cd'?

the cd practice is common, even if it only holds a few items or documents.

the cd might also hold documentation about her invoice for the tattoo, how much it cost, was it done in one visit, was she going back for more 'color' in addition to another full one or 'addition' to this one, a copy of the appt book...things like that perhaps.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[cherish]

I still haven't seen a copy of the JCpenny receipt in the docs. Certainly LE would be able to get a copy from the company.

[Spots]

do we know its a 'full cd'?

the cd practice is common, even if it only holds a few items or documents.

the cd might also hold documentation about her invoice for the tattoo, how much it cost, was it done in one visit, was she going back for more 'color' in addition to another full one or 'addition' to this one, a copy of the appt book...things like that perhaps.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

Point taken.

I would assume that if it was one photo, they'd just print it out and save $ on CDs. I had never considered the documentation.

So what's on the paper? Probably a catalogue of the item(s) on the CD.

Buzz kill.

[AbbyNormal]

The Anthony family never fails to surprise me. There will probably be new discovery or new antics to digest soon enough.

[AbbyNormal]

When I first started practicing law (a hundred years ago) judges routinely ruled on objections before they were made. It was actually a very good way to learn. I can still remember how it felt the first time I stood to make an objection and actually knew what I was objecting to beforehand. Now some judges fail to make a ruling even when an objection is made. I find myself saying to myself "can you please make a ruling....I don't care if you rule against me, just rule!!!!!"

I also find myself watching law shows and objecting to the tv. LOL

JMO There's sure a lot to it all. Thank you for translating all the legal stuff.

A lot of television these days is objectionable :biggrin:

[AbbyNormal]

The FBI dances to its own drummer. It has always been my experience that when part of a state investigation, they rarely take any position. They are just to busy to make these decisions. They process the evidence and report. The request is usually made by local LE so the FBI sends their reports to them. It is then up to local LE to turn things over to the prosecution.

JMO Thanks! I wonder if Casey was interveiwed by FBI, or if it was only George and Cindy? Just thinking outloud.

[AbbyNormal]

I still haven't seen a copy of the JCpenny receipt in the docs. Certainly LE would be able to get a copy from the company. Good point! There are so many little details like this one that I keep forgetting. Do you think Casey or Cindy purchased a new pooh blanket for the bedroom?

[farrahrani]

Point taken.

I would assume that if it was one photo, they'd just print it out and save $ on CDs. I had never considered the documentation.

So what's on the paper? Probably a catalogue of the item(s) on the CD.

Buzz kill.

Cd's purchased in bulk are actually pretty cheap. I can get a spindle of them maybe fifty or so for under ten dollars, this week on sale for four bucks. LE will probably be able to get them much cheaper buying in much larger quantities or having discounts or whatever.

I missed the situation earlier and had to scroll back about Coldwater's announcement. Usually I lurk and follow along, this is the best source for news and documentation all in one place, much more reliable than news sites. I'd hate for it to be shut down. :crying:

[Neffy]

ITA... if a defense team has nothing.. then they have to go after anything. It is their job, and we need to get used to this kind of posturing. JMO

Everything you say is true, however, bringing a bucket of nothing to court is still having nothing.

It's obvious when your defense has something to do with the price of rice in China and nothing to do with the actual facts. Isnt' this something that gets brought up to the bar when Attorneys do this? Ethics commitee or something.

[marshmallow]

to be honest, I'd have been disappointed if the defense had not noticed the missing evidence. I want them to do their jobs, I want a fair representation for Casey to avoid a poor representation claim after trial. The evidence lost is not due to error on the part of a lab tech. or misuse. It is due to precessing the small amount of material. If they hadn't done this test then the defense would still be complaining only it would be because no fingerprint detection/comparison was done. It is the defense's job to complain and file these motions. This was no bombshell, the Pimptone man who wrote the article only worded it as such. Big ado about nada and it won't be the last time it happens.


and to be more honest, I cannot post here as a generic stranger and pretend I've not grown both respect and friendship toward my fellow Caylee Board posters. To ask us to go from friendly discourse and kind disagreement to unpersonal and cold,topic related only words is unfair and a bit skewed. If the new rules state we have to refrain from anything but the facts of the case then I think IS is no longer a good fit for me.

[apothecary]

do we know its a 'full cd'?

the cd practice is common, even if it only holds a few items or documents.

the cd might also hold documentation about her invoice for the tattoo, how much it cost, was it done in one visit, was she going back for more 'color' in addition to another full one or 'addition' to this one, a copy of the appt book...things like that perhaps.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

How much would a tattoo like Casey's cost?

[SilentTears]

How much would a tattoo like Casey's cost?

Depending on size and how much color it could be one or two hundred dollars.

[Neffy]

How much would a tattoo like Casey's cost?

I don't have any tats but most of my friends do. I know it depends on how big it is and also how detailed/colored in it is and who does it.

Going off of what one of my friends has which is a $300.00 tat, those few words don't compare so I can't see Casey's really costing much at all. I'd ballpark less then $100.00, perhaps $50.00? I could be way off but I just don't see it costing a whole heck of a lot.

But any cost is to much when you have no money. :)

[Sun]

How much would a tattoo like Casey's cost?

It's been rumored that the photos recently taken of Casey's tattoo(s) will be released shorty in a doc dump. How much her tattoo cost has never been mentioned in the LE interviews, has it? Amy's $400 went "missing" just prior to Casey getting her tattoo.

Good morning to all! and Thanks!

[Pruddennce]

Thanks! I wonder if Casey was interveiwed by FBI, or if it was only George and Cindy? Just thinking outloud.

she was never interviewed by anyone in LE again after she was arrested on July 16, 2008.

its interesting to note that her written statement is number one, among other things, an erroneous statement as to the date: the jurors are going to wonder how a mother of a missing child is a full week off the mark; and two, claiming she waited TWO HOURS at Sawgrass and left at 7pm to 'look for Zenaida and Caylee'.....however, at around 8pm, she is with Tony at Blockbuster.

the jurors will be scratching their heads as to her written statement: 'Ive spent every day looking for my daughter'. however, one hour later, she was lining up movie nite with her boyfriend, caught on video at the blockbuster.

the very beginning of her account, written down and recorded by LE is the last time LE had an opportunity to officially speak with her.

Baez wrote a letter to LE pledging cooperation. Casey agreed to speak with LE with Baez present.

words were exchanged between her family about talking to the FBI, anyone: transcript of jailhouse call which was played on NG show (linking this because its easier to read than go listen to)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/31/ng.01.html

this entire exchange is reallllllllllly interesting.

and:

these meetings never took place.

Casey, IMO will never take the stand, therefore, her interviews with LE and her written statement will be her testimony....and it will sink her when it is held up side by side with her actual activities during that 31 day period: and most importantly: that she never reported her child missing.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[Neffy]

she was never interviewed by anyone in LE again after she was arrested on July 16, 2008.

its interesting to note that her written statement is number one, among other things, an erroneous statement as to the date: the jurors are going to wonder how a mother of a missing child is a full week off the mark; and two, claiming she waited TWO HOURS at Sawgrass and left at 7pm to 'look for Zenaida and Caylee'.....however, at around 8pm, she is with Tony at Blockbuster.

the jurors will be scratching their heads as to her written statement: 'Ive spent every day looking for my daughter'. however, one hour later, she was lining up movie nite with her boyfriend, caught on video at the blockbuster.

the very beginning of her account, written down and recorded by LE is the last time LE had an opportunity to officially speak with her.

Baez wrote a letter to LE pledging cooperation. Casey agreed to speak with LE with Baez present.

words were exchanged between her family about talking to the FBI, anyone: transcript of jailhouse call which was played on NG show (linking this because its easier to read than go listen to)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/31/ng.01.html

this entire exchange is reallllllllllly interesting.

and:

these meetings never took place.

Casey, IMO will never take the stand, therefore, her interviews with LE and her written statement will be her testimony....and it will sink her when it is held up side by side with her actual activities during that 31 day period: and most importantly: that she never reported her child missing.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

I like the tape better. It's got more 'tude in the voice than you can read in the transcript.

But you know reading this something else comes to mind. When I heard the verbal it definately comes across as Casey was caught lying about the apartment. But reading it, I'm wondering if Cindy playing detective thinks she solved the "zanny" invisible "nanny" mystery. Cindy paraphrased: Is this Zanny's apt because I know who's apartment this really belongs to.

Reading it I don't think Cindy see's Casey as lying but she thinks she solved the case. Ricardo is Zanny. They need to hang up there PI licenses. :thumbdown:

[Sun]

I like the tape better. It's got more 'tude in the voice than you can read in the transcript.

But you know reading this something else comes to mind. When I heard the verbal it definately comes across as Casey was caught lying about the apartment. But reading it, I'm wondering if Cindy playing detective thinks she solved the "zanny" invisible "nanny" mystery. Cindy paraphrased: Is this Zanny's apt because I know who's apartment this really belongs to.

Reading it I don't think Cindy see's Casey as lying but she thinks she solved the case. Ricardo is Zanny. They need to hang up there PI licenses. :thumbdown:

It's my belief that Baez had "coached" George and Cindy on what, and what not to say in the jail video visits. However, Baez didn't know that Casey was going to go against him, and visit with George and Cindy on Aug 14th.

[kakax]

she was never interviewed by anyone in LE again after she was arrested on July 16, 2008.

its interesting to note that her written statement is number one, among other things, an erroneous statement as to the date: the jurors are going to wonder how a mother of a missing child is a full week off the mark; and two, claiming she waited TWO HOURS at Sawgrass and left at 7pm to 'look for Zenaida and Caylee'.....however, at around 8pm, she is with Tony at Blockbuster.

the jurors will be scratching their heads as to her written statement: 'Ive spent every day looking for my daughter'. however, one hour later, she was lining up movie nite with her boyfriend, caught on video at the blockbuster.

the very beginning of her account, written down and recorded by LE is the last time LE had an opportunity to officially speak with her.

Baez wrote a letter to LE pledging cooperation. Casey agreed to speak with LE with Baez present.

words were exchanged between her family about talking to the FBI, anyone: transcript of jailhouse call which was played on NG show (linking this because its easier to read than go listen to)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/31/ng.01.html

this entire exchange is reallllllllllly interesting.

and:

these meetings never took place.

Casey, IMO will never take the stand, therefore, her interviews with LE and her written statement will be her testimony....and it will sink her when it is held up side by side with her actual activities during that 31 day period: and most importantly: that she never reported her child missing.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*



Morning Pruddy!!!

The way you put this...who needs the heart shaped sticker residue? She is toast.

She never, not once reached out to find her daughter. She claims to want to of course, but how can you explain that she didn't? She didn't want her to be found.

Will it even take the jury an hour to come to a verdict? So cut and dry. :sneaky:

[Barbara fl.]

Either party can make a motion to withhold information from the public. You will recall it was the prosecution that moved to seal the autopsy. Additionally, the prosecution has taken no position with regard to the motions filed by the defense. It is the media that has opposed these motions. But yes, a motion would have to be made to prevent publication of the evidence. The motions would be a matter of public record. JMO

You are correct...but the media can have a representative appeal that decision due to the "sunshine laws"....and unless the lawyers's can show a good enough reason for keeping this info from the public, it can be overturned...

[farrahrani]

I like the tape better. It's got more 'tude in the voice than you can read in the transcript.

But you know reading this something else comes to mind. When I heard the verbal it definately comes across as Casey was caught lying about the apartment. But reading it, I'm wondering if Cindy playing detective thinks she solved the "zanny" invisible "nanny" mystery. Cindy paraphrased: Is this Zanny's apt because I know who's apartment this really belongs to.

Reading it I don't think Cindy see's Casey as lying but she thinks she solved the case. Ricardo is Zanny. They need to hang up there PI licenses. :thumbdown:


That's an interesting take on it, about Cindy trying to implicate Ricardo. Since in that same convo they were very specific about it NOT being Zanny's apt., and it being Ricardo's I never thought it out like that, but you might be right.

My take on it has been this: Cindy knew that apt. wasn't Zanny's. I am wondering if Casey had passed off those pictures as Zanny's apt to other people and Cindy got wind of it. OR, Cindy had heard the references to Zanny's drum set, knew that wasn't her apartment in the picture and was warning Casey not to try to pass them off. Having lived with enabling batards who allowed their son to get away with darned near anything, and were very much like this family, I recall similar discussions.

"Who's baggie was that we found under your mattress? Before you answer, I know it isn't ______'s they have been out of town all week."

Pretty much giving them the info that they should NOT use, but still giving them leeway to lie.

IMO.

[Barbara fl.]

I like the tape better. It's got more 'tude in the voice than you can read in the transcript.

But you know reading this something else comes to mind. When I heard the verbal it definately comes across as Casey was caught lying about the apartment. But reading it, I'm wondering if Cindy playing detective thinks she solved the "zanny" invisible "nanny" mystery. Cindy paraphrased: Is this Zanny's apt because I know who's apartment this really belongs to.

Reading it I don't think Cindy see's Casey as lying but she thinks she solved the case. Ricardo is Zanny. They need to hang up there PI licenses. :thumbdown:


I believe that when Cindy said that to Casey she was warning her not to tell LE that the picture was of Zanny's apt because LE already knew whose apt it was, and Casey would be caught in even one more lie....All those visits at the jail was coded when they were talking to Casey...

Also when Cindy stated to Casey "well Zanny has a key to the house, right"? and Casey answers "yes, I told you that a long tme ago"....

All this was getting their stories straight (or at least trying to)....JMO

They are all born liars, they know each other very well and think they can get over with this whole thing.....they are so wrong.....

[Pruddennce]

I like the tape better. It's got more 'tude in the voice than you can read in the transcript.

But you know reading this something else comes to mind. When I heard the verbal it definately comes across as Casey was caught lying about the apartment. But reading it, I'm wondering if Cindy playing detective thinks she solved the "zanny" invisible "nanny" mystery. Cindy paraphrased: Is this Zanny's apt because I know who's apartment this really belongs to.

Reading it I don't think Cindy see's Casey as lying but she thinks she solved the case. Ricardo is Zanny. They need to hang up there PI licenses. :thumbdown:

well, yes. listening is a definite eye opener. and yes, that is how Cindy justified 'pinning this on someone else' via the apt exchange. Cindy prevented Casey from lying outright by giving her the head's up "that SHE knows'.....which enabled Casey to formulate another lie...although Cindy certainly wont acknowledge that despite what LE told her about the lies.

and again, Cindy, when confronted with FACTS, for instance, about the JC Penny statements, she, like her daughter LIES in a heartbeat...its the same behaviour....she lies and says 'there's nothing on them' but when told they know otherwise, she formulates a lie with one blink, that Lee was supposed to give them to LE. she 'blames' someone else.

makes one's head spin, this neverending lying behaviour which IMO has been a staple in this family: EVERYONE LIES. all of them are responsible for the outcome of Caylee's life ending. IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[Sun]

Originally Posted by Lapis
Either party can make a motion to withhold information from the public. You will recall it was the prosecution that moved to seal the autopsy. Additionally, the prosecution has taken no position with regard to the motions filed by the defense. It is the media that has opposed these motions. But yes, a motion would have to be made to prevent publication of the evidence. The motions would be a matter of public record. JMO

As I recall, the prosecution did motion to prevent the release of the autopsy photos. It was BConway (for George and Cindy) that unsuccessfully motioned to have the autopsy sealed until the trial.

I found it interesting that in this motion, Lyon has not copied the media. Shouldn't they have a say? Or is her motion directly pointed to altering the jail procedures (as in special treatment for an inmate)? I become a bit confused when reading this motion, as it leads me to think that Lyon is trying to set things in motion for Casey to be able to meet with her family face-to-face with her attorney present. That is never allowed, is it?

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20972696/detail.html

[Sun]

well, yes. listening is a definite eye opener. and yes, that is how Cindy justified 'pinning this on someone else' via the apt exchange. Cindy prevented Casey from lying outright by giving her the head's up "that SHE knows'.....which enabled Casey to formulate another lie...although Cindy certainly wont acknowledge that despite what LE told her about the lies.

and again, Cindy, when confronted with FACTS, for instance, about the JC Penny statements, she, like her daughter LIES in a heartbeat...its the same behaviour....she lies and says 'there's nothing on them' but when told they know otherwise, she formulates a lie with one blink, that Lee was supposed to give them to LE. she 'blames' someone else.

makes one's head spin, this neverending lying behaviour which IMO has been a staple in this family: EVERYONE LIES. all of them are responsible for the outcome of Caylee's life ending. IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

I have always wondered just how quickly J.C. Penney's sends a statement out, once a purchase is charged. For instance, how soon could Cindy have found out about the late June charges that Casey made on Cindy's CC? Charges made at an Orlando store, when Casey was supposedly saying that she was out-of-town.

[Neffy]

I believe that when Cindy said that to Casey she was warning her not to tell LE that the picture was of Zanny's apt because LE already knew whose apt it was, and Casey would be caught in even one more lie....All those visits at the jail was coded when they were talking to Casey...

Also when Cindy stated to Casey "well Zanny has a key to the house, right"? and Casey answers "yes, I told you that a long tme ago"....

All this was getting their stories straight (or at least trying to)....JMO

They are all born liars, they know each other very well and think they can get over with this whole thing.....they are so wrong.....

TX Barb and Pru,



I agree, they are all responsible in the end and all have their hand in the cover up.

[Pruddennce]

Morning Pruddy!!!

The way you put this...who needs the heart shaped sticker residue? She is toast.

She never, not once reached out to find her daughter. She claims to want to of course, but how can you explain that she didn't? She didn't want her to be found.

Will it even take the jury an hour to come to a verdict? So cut and dry. :sneaky:

hey k!

I think the jurors will take their time, but will always come back to the 31 days and her activities during that period. and her interviews with LE coupled with her written statement.

items found with the remains. hamper bag, Pooh blanket (drum roll, Cindy's statement during the search warrant <----I think it will be presented).....the car, the stain and the smell.

anything the family offers will be highly suspect as the state can present bits and pieces or in whole, official statements/interviews, namely GA's and his gj testimony.

IF the jury hears the family implicating others, the jurors, already armed with the knowledge that everything Casey told LE was a lie, that will certainly be another layer as to who had motive to compromise/withhold information during the investigation.

Casey already compromised the investigation before her mother called 911. she never reported her missing.

I predict 2 days. CE is extremely strong.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence.....*

[Neffy]

I have always wondered just how quickly J.C. Penney's sends a statement out, once a purchase is charged. For instance, how soon could Cindy have found out about the late June charges that Casey made on Cindy's CC? Charges made at an Orlando store, when Casey was supposedly saying that she was out-of-town.

Like any other charge they should recieve a monthly statement. With the rare exception that one billing cycle was just missed perhaps it may seem like two billing cycles but in reality just one.

[Pruddennce]

I have always wondered just how quickly J.C. Penney's sends a statement out, once a purchase is charged. For instance, how soon could Cindy have found out about the late June charges that Casey made on Cindy's CC? Charges made at an Orlando store, when Casey was supposedly saying that she was out-of-town.

thats an interesting question Sun. IMO, Cindy was viewing online. SHE KNEW. in her 911 call, she stated that Casey stole money and the car.

a little bit of truth...the theft of the JC Penny charge.

Cindy ignores pertinent facts...she connects imaginary dots.....when confronted with the truth, she blows by it. she already knew she was local when Lee reported back on July 3rd.

Cindy did not tell LE she sent Lee out to find her and he found her to be local (not physically) but thru friends.

Cindy, at every turn, twisted the facts for her own benefit. LE already knew she was local, videos of her at Penny's.

when Lee was sent out, look at the facts preceding that: Cindy is blogging online AFTER she was sent on a futile mission to meet up with Caylee and Casey at Universal....why, all of a sudden is she being baited there...IMO, because Casey was coming and going from the house, AND she was shopping on her charge card.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence....*

[Pruddennce]

As I recall, the prosecution did motion to prevent the release of the autopsy photos. It was BConway (for George and Cindy) that unsuccessfully motioned to have the autopsy sealed until the trial.

I found it interesting that in this motion, Lyon has not copied the media. Shouldn't they have a say? Or is her motion directly pointed to altering the jail procedures (as in special treatment for an inmate)? I become a bit confused when reading this motion, as it leads me to think that Lyon is trying to set things in motion for Casey to be able to meet with her family face-to-face with her attorney present. That is never allowed, is it?

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20972696/detail.html

the first thing wrong with that document: the state is not disseminating information to the media. the media is permitted to request it and release it.

secondly, she references the law as to how a prisoner is fed. comparing that to 'emotional support'. she wants special treatment and privacy afforded her.

IMO, the motion is ridiculous. Casey's in jail and well, TOO BAD...I would like the judge to say that outright. how she chooses to accept or reject visitors because of the jail policy, is up to her.

Lyons doesnt want the media to see Casey lose it with her family. plain and simple. she does not trust Casey to keep a lid on it.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence...*

[Barbara fl.]

It's been rumored that the photos recently taken of Casey's tattoo(s) will be released shorty in a doc dump. How much her tattoo cost has never been mentioned in the LE interviews, has it? Amy's $400 went "missing" just prior to Casey getting her tattoo.

Good morning to all! and Thanks!


Most tattoo's out here start at $75.00, my son had one name put on for 75.00...her's might have cost a little more....

[Barbara fl.]

the first thing wrong with that document: the state is not disseminating information to the media. the media is permitted to request it and release it.

secondly, she references the law as to how a prisoner is fed. comparing that to 'emotional support'. she wants special treatment and privacy afforded her.

IMO, the motion is ridiculous. Casey's in jail and well, TOO BAD...I would like the judge to say that outright. how she chooses to accept or reject visitors because of the jail policy, is up to her.

Lyons doesnt want the media to see Casey lose it with her family. plain and simple. she does not trust Casey to keep a lid on it.

IMO

best regards,
Pru

*waiting on maggot evidence...*


I agree fully with what you say....Lyons and the rest can not trust their client and her family to talk publically.....But I do not see any special treatment being given to Casey for any reason....and she doesn't deserve it either...