Michael Jackson -9/21 ------ [includes 9/25 Dateline]

[warhorse46]

The same scenario happens when someone dies at home. The same checks and balances are in place. If the person at home appears to have died of natural causes that is.

In both cases, if there is obvious trauma to the bodies, the personal doctor is skipped and Homicide takes the case.

JMO



I agree with you that if there are obvious signs of trauma to a person who has died @ home or something unusual then homicide does take over.

[Trissy]

You mean the police weren't called to the hospital to handle that for you?? No wonder the funeral parlor wouldn't accept the body. Geez.

No the police werent called. My sister and i had asked for an autopsy but one wasnt given to her. So we had to find a doctor that my Mom had seen years ago. He didnt want to sign the DC but he finally did. FACT

[Trissy]

Like I said earlier everyone who came into contact with Michael, would eventually use him for financial or personal gain. Even the Rabbi. Shame on him.

Its my opinion that every doctor Michael Jackson came in contact with was used by MJ for his drug habits. MOO

[warhorse46]

You mean the police weren't called to the hospital to handle that for you?? No wonder the funeral parlor wouldn't accept the body. Geez.



I don't know about where you live but in my area police are not summoned for things like that unless there is some sign of a crime being committed.

[warhorse46]

If there is a state now that doesn't require a pathologist to be an ME, I'd sure like to know what state that is. I would think that would be the state to take someone to kill them and get away with it. Not that I'm looking for that. IMO

It's not required that MEs have law degrees. Most don't. IMO


There is a big difference between MEs & Coroners. My state has both. A Coroner does not have to hold a medical degree of any kind & is an elected official.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-a-coroner-and-a-medical-examiner.htm

http://money.howstuffworks.com/question732.htm

[daniel green]

Seems he's surprised by the Hitler attention.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/michael-jackson-despised_b_300158.html

As far as Michael's contention in the book that he could have touched something inside of Hitler in a one-hour meeting, obviously this is ridiculous and I criticize the comment heavily in the book. Hitler was intrinsically evil and had utterly erased any trace of the image of G-d from his countenance. Touch Hitler and all you would have found is rancid bile and poison. But far from this being a demonstration that Michael excused Hitler's evil, it is rather a sad commentary on Michael's hopeless naïveté and growing ******* complex.

That is exactly what I thought of MJ's comment re Hitler.


Never again.

[daniel green]

I will wait until I hear what he says but it does not change my comments or opinion about the Rabbi releasing these tapes.


snipped

Michael wanted these conversations published and made available to the public. He felt that if people understood the extreme suffering he had endured and if he exposed his heart to what he knew to be a suspicious public, people might judge him more charitably. In the final analysis, this book is Michael in his own words and each person will make his own judgment.

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/michael-jackson-despised_b_300158.html

[daniel green]

Its my opinion that every doctor Michael Jackson came in contact with was used by MJ for his drug habits. MOO

I quite agree.

Dr Choprah, for instance. Nurse Lee. Etc.

[daniel green]

Hitler was a genius orator. He was [able] to make that many people turn and change and hate. He had to be a showman and he was. Before he would speak, he would pause, drink a bit of water, and then he would clear his throat, and look around. It was what an entertainer would do trying to work out how to play his audience. He would go into this fury of the first words he would say and he would hit them hard. But where did he come from? I know he failed school and he wanted to be an architect. He failed a lot of things. But I think it all happened in prison, the whole Mein Kampf thing, didn't it?


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/michael-jackson-despised_b_300158.html

Blech.

Never again.

[Firehead11]

When my girlfriend was found dead one morning at her home, the police were called, EMT's were called and in turn the county coroner was called. Her death was not expected at all. The police did their little investigation, coroner pronounced her dead and the coroner took her body to the funeral parlor. There was no sign of any trauma to her body. No visit to the hospital. By that night some of her children had made it into this state and had their viewing that night. Of course the coroner signed the death certificate.

I agree with another poster, who said that the laws might differ from state to state.

[Firehead11]

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/michael-jackson-despised_b_300158.html

Blech.

Never again.


Never Again?
What do you mean?

[daniel green]

Never Again?
What do you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League

http://www.jdl.org/index.php/ideology-advocacy/core-ideology/never-again/

[daniel green]

I am listening to the interview with Rabbi (on the Huff-Po pg above) and he says the 30 hrs of tape took place at Neverland.

[daniel green]

Oops. MJ says Madonna was not nice and was jealous of him.

[Firehead11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League

http://www.jdl.org/index.php/ideology-advocacy/core-ideology/never-again/


Thank You for the Info. I wasn't aware of that particular saying. I do not want to start a debate on this subject under the topic of Michael Jackson.

[daniel green]

Three months after Michael Jackson’s death, I’m still surprised by the passion of his fans. On Thursday, fans in Los Angeles began lining up for tickets to his concert documentary, This Is It — the film doesn’t open until Oct. 27, but tickets go on sale Sunday morning. I once invested a whole day in line for Rocky IV tickets, so I’m not about to tell anyone that these Michael Jackson fans are wasting their time. But I sort of feel like Tom Hanks in Big, when he tentatively raised his hand in the business meeting to say, “I don’t get it.” I don’t get it. I mean, I grew up in the 1980s, but I never felt like Michael Jackson’s music grew up with me. His songs were my musical equivalent of Star Wars toys, fossilized artifacts of a frivolous childhood. At some point, his sound ceased to evolve, and eventually, I moved onto other toys, other music. Don’t get me wrong, the opening bars of “Billie Jean” are still thrilling, but little more than a special edition Boba Fett figurine.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2009/09/25/this-is-it-michael-jackson-lines/

[LadyFuzz]

I don't know about where you live but in my area police are not summoned for things like that unless there is some sign of a crime being committed.

Well in my state police are called. It is checks and balances that keep a homicide from slipping through the cracks. A homicide can happen without any suspicious signs on the body. We don't have coroners just MEs.

The only time police are not called is when a DNR is on file by the next of kin and the person dies in a nursing home without a doctor in attendance at the death. That leaves it open to slipping a homicide through. I find that outrageous. Nursing home accidents cause deaths.

The only checks and balances in that case is the funeral parlor which may call police if they discover unusual trauma after receiving the body.

By the way, when police arrive, they have to check the body all over for any suspicious bruises ect before calling the doctor to sign. That means rolling the body over to check everything. I found those calls very unpleasant.

JMO

[LadyFuzz]

Oops. MJ says Madonna was not nice and was jealous of him.

I think this book may be interesting to read. jmo

[LadyFuzz]

There is a big difference between MEs & Coroners. My state has both. A Coroner does not have to hold a medical degree of any kind & is an elected official.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-a-coroner-and-a-medical-examiner.htm

http://money.howstuffworks.com/question732.htm

Yes, I have always known what a coroner is. A big waste of taxpayers dollars. Just be thankful you have both. imo

[LadyFuzz]

No the police werent called. My sister and i had asked for an autopsy but one wasnt given to her. So we had to find a doctor that my Mom had seen years ago. He didnt want to sign the DC but he finally did. FACT

That's horrible you had to go through that. You shouldn't of had to do that at all. IMO

[tiptop]

I just purchased the Rabbi's book The Michael Jackson Tapes. This is my third MJ book. lol

*tosses Dan Brown aside*

[RootBeer]

3 months now since MJ died

[RootBeer]

"I think growing old is the ugliest thing" Michael Jackson

[RootBeer]

His rabbi buddy taped many discussions with MJ years ago. $$$$$$

[RootBeer]

Rabbi's family still has the dog "Marshmellow" that MJ gave to them.

[RootBeer]

By VICTOR EPSTEIN (AP) – 4 hours ago

ENGLEWOOD, N.J. — Pop superstar Michael Jackson feared the ravages of old age, sought the company of sycophants and appeared to be abusing prescription drugs and cosmetic surgery nearly a decade before his death, according to a new book by a former adviser.

"The Michael Jackson Tapes" breaks little in the way of new ground but the book by Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, based on 30 hours of taped interviews, provides firsthand detail about the performer's excesses and obsessions.

"I don't want to be seen now," Jackson confessed. "Because I am like a lizard. It is horrible."

Jackson died June 25 at age 50. His death is being treated as a homicide.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hTLwdVnXl1bkiA8wOqeAxx-1DW-wD9AUIEAO0

[tiptop]

FUSE channel is showing a Michael special now.

[RootBeer]

I just purchased the Rabbi's book The Michael Jackson Tapes. This is my third MJ book. lol

*tosses Dan Brown aside*

they are talking about the book on dateline right now

i started a post about it

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=358912

[ResJudicata]

IMO This interview with the Rabbi....MJ was playing him and counting on him for the sole purpose of painting himself even more as a victim to the rest of the world. Michael Jackson again was playing the audience. The man wanted sympathy and to be excused for his inappropriate behavior. I believe most of it, since it came from MJ's lips,...to be LIES.

The Rabbi and MJ parted ways when MJ AGAIN REFUSED to listen, continued having boys in his bed and was arrested for child molestation.


And he was acquited of ALL charges of child molestation, due to lack of evidence.

[tiptop]

And he was acquited of ALL charges of child molestation, due to lack of evidence.

Yes. And according to the book jacket, the tapings took place in 2000-2001. Wasnt the first trial in 2003?

[RootBeer]

It is hard for me to believe things that MJ said on those tapes because he may of been on drugs when he was talking. jmo

[tiptop]

It is hard for me to believe things that MJ said on those tapes because he may of been on drugs when he was talking. jmo

I havent read the book yet --- what things did he say you dont believe?

[RootBeer]

I havent read the book yet --- what things did he say you dont believe?

I guess I believe he believed what he said, but I don't think he actually "healed" people. jmo

[tiptop]

I guess I believe he believed what he said, but I don't think he actually "healed" people. jmo

He claims to have "healed" people?

[RootBeer]

He claims to have "healed" people?

------
yes

-----

[ResJudicata]

IMO It was stupidity and ignorance on the jury's part.


Or on the part of the people who refuse to respect and acknowledge a decision by the 12 people who were sworn to base their verdict on the evidence, or in this case, lack thereof.

[sallemae]

"oh please" to you!!!! Your little snide comments are unnecessary. So he says - don't think MJ can dispute that they are being released with his permission can he? Agreeing to taped interviews and being released to the public are very different.

I'm with you on this, if MJ wanted them released and the book made by the rabbi, why now, after MJ is dead? Why not while MJ was alive? If MJ wanted people to know who he really was.

imo

[LadyFuzz]

Or on the part of the people who refuse to respect and acknowledge a decision by the 12 people who were sworn to base their verdict on the evidence, or in this case, lack thereof.

What do you think about the jury being overheard making fun of a witness on a break?

[ResJudicata]

What do you think about the jury being overheard making fun of a witness on a break?


Her stories were ridiculous, and they saw her for what she was.

[LadyFuzz]

I'm with you on this, if MJ wanted them released and the book made by the rabbi, why now, after MJ is dead? Why not while MJ was alive? If MJ wanted people to know who he really was.

imo

None of this matters now. The Rabbi has the right to release the tapes and did so. jmo

[sallemae]

None of this matters now. The Rabbi has the right to release the tapes and did so. jmo



None of this matters now, according to who?


I heard the rabbi say he didn't release the tapes before, because the public was receptive to MJ back then....2002 - 2003. (paraphrased)

All about making money off of MJ. imo

[tiptop]

Her stories were ridiculous, and they saw her for what she was.

One of the issues I have with this whole thing is ---- if I was accused of child molestation, even if I was doing perfectly innocent things, would I continue to do things perceived by most as criminal? Would I continue to tell the public I slept with children and it was totally innocent?

You escape prosecution once; yet you continue to broadcast that which got you in hot water the first time. Does that make sense? Either Michael was naive and innocent or he was incredibly stupid in this arena. If his thoughts and actions were pure, he could have kept that to himeslf. Instead he chose to advertise it and have his actions subject to scrutiny. It makes no sense to me that his legacy is one of doubt and questions. Due to his (perceived) wealth, I can see why some may try to extort. But its easy to see why some believe him guilty of youth explotation.

[tiptop]

I'm with you on this, if MJ wanted them released and the book made by the rabbi, why now, after MJ is dead? Why not while MJ was alive? If MJ wanted people to know who he really was.

imo

I do have to think though --- with someone of MJ's popularity; how could you not think about it being released against your will? You are famous and you make RECORDINGS. HELLO ---- if someone is taping something you say, you need to be aware that it could possibly be released against your wishes.

According to the book jacket, these tapes were made 2000-2001. Almost ten years ago. We have no idea about any stipulations pursuant to this release.

[daniel green]

IMO This interview with the Rabbi....MJ was playing him and counting on him for the sole purpose of painting himself even more as a victim to the rest of the world. snipped

Yep.

VictimEST. It really gets old, doesn't it?

[LadyFuzz]

None of this matters now, according to who?


I heard the rabbi say he didn't release the tapes before, because the public was receptive to MJ back then....2002 - 2003. (paraphrased)

All about making money off of MJ. imo

How do you know that? The man has written many other books. Does he even need the money? Where are the profits going? jmo

I don't understand why Jackson would allow himself to be taped. He had to know there was a possibility of the tapes being made public at sometime. Obviously he didn't care. imo

[LadyFuzz]

After hearing what his father did to him, according to him, and his mother only verbalizing for Joe to stop, I am amazed he still grew up seeing his mother as a saint.

How did he separate the two when it came to abuse? I feel the mother was just like the father and still is. It was all about money to both of them. It still is all about money when it comes to the estate.

imo

[LadyFuzz]

People are lined up to purchase MJ movie tickets!
They are camping out on the street.

Though tickets go on sale on Sunday, September 27, 2009, according to the This is It movie website, the photos from L.A. Live in Los Angeles, show lines were already forming, with fans bringing blankets and such.

http://www.examiner.com/x-22153-Cleveland-Pop-Culture-Examiner~y2009m9d25-Michael-Jackson-This-is-It-movie-tickets--Fans-buy-Michael-Jackson-This-is-It-movie-tickets

And why wouldn't hard core fans be lined up to get tickets? It is his last performance.

There are others who will want tickets also. People are drawn to freak shows. Coney Island made millions on their freaks shows. It's the same as when traffic slows down to gawk at a traffic accident. It is human nature.

imo of course

[LadyFuzz]

Her stories were ridiculous, and they saw her for what she was.

Whose stories? Are you saying someone lied about over hearing what the jury was laughing about? When I heard that, I knew it would be a not guilty verdict. I knew, at that time, the jury was biased. I also knew, at that time, I would never accept a not guilty verdict.

Was this so called rumor brought before the judge? Where members of the jury questioned separately by the judge regarding this so called rumor? There should have been questioning to determine if there would be a mistrial.

Whose "they" you refer to?

jmo

[LadyFuzz]

Im not sure if you all know that Rabbi Boteach was a friend and spiritual advisor to Michael..so maybe there was some sort of therapeutic goal in mind when all these discussions and tapes were done??

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/07/76062/index.html

and in this link..Rabbi Boteach went into the MJ and feelings about Hitler ..Rabbi is really upset that claims of MJ idolized the man for his principles...you have to read the article to get what I mean...


It was bizarre seeing this morning how hundreds of news sources on the Internet alleged that Michael Jackson admired Hitler and considered him a genius. Nothing could be further from the truth and these scandalous allegations are all based on a simple misrepresentation of a quote from Michael in my book The Michael Jackson Tapes: A Tragic Icon Reveals His Soul in Intimate Conversation.




http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/michael-jackson-despised_b_300158.html

LMS

I think there was a therapeutic goal in mind by the Rabbi. He seemed to care a great deal about Jackson as did his family. Those tapes would have never been released had Jackson not died unless he had some written authorization by Jackson to write the book.

It is possible, however, that Jackson was playing him for some reason. Didn't Jackson say he only had two plastic surgeries as an example? I don't believe tapes had to be made for therapeutic purposes either. Jackson allowed that and for what reason would he allow that in the first place if not to write a book?

jmo

jmo

[LadyFuzz]

None of this matters now, according to who?


I heard the rabbi say he didn't release the tapes before, because the public was receptive to MJ back then....2002 - 2003. (paraphrased)

All about making money off of MJ. imo

That's always the excuse for anything said or done regarding Jackson.
Everyone was just trying to make money off Jackson, even the children who claimed molestation.

No, it doesn't matter now because Jackson is dead. The Rabbi wrote a book and released some tapes. There is nothing that can be done about that except complain it's all about the money.

That excuse is getting old. After all, that was always Jackson's excuse and fans bought it. Geez

IMO of course

[ResJudicata]

That's always the excuse for anything said or done regarding Jackson.
Everyone was just trying to make money off Jackson, even the children who claimed molestation.

No, it doesn't matter now because Jackson is dead. The Rabbi wrote a book and released some tapes. There is nothing that can be done about that except complain it's all about the money.

That excuse is getting old. After all, that was always Jackson's excuse and fans bought it. Geez

IMO of course


I think the complaint is that Michael never said the things that are being attributed to him. Including here, where I have read that Michael admired Hitler, which simply isn't true. Its true what the Rabbi says in the Huffington Post article, that Michael had enough real flaws, that its unfair to continue to make false allegations about him. And I agree with the Rabbi.

[ResJudicata]

Whose stories? Are you saying someone lied about over hearing what the jury was laughing about? When I heard that, I knew it would be a not guilty verdict. I knew, at that time, the jury was biased. I also knew, at that time, I would never accept a not guilty verdict.

Was this so called rumor brought before the judge? Where members of the jury questioned separately by the judge regarding this so called rumor? There should have been questioning to determine if there would be a mistrial.

Whose "they" you refer to?

jmo

You asked:

Originally Posted by LadyFuzz
What do you think about the jury being overheard making fun of a witness on a break?

The witness's stories were ridiculous, and the jury saw her for what she was. Evidently the judge didn't feel any jury misconduct took place and the only reason to consider a mistrial, would be for the lack of evidence, and the expense to taxpayers for the DA to have ever brought it to trial in the first place.

[who_is_it]

MJ -- If Not for Kids He Would 'Choose Death'

"As for his infamous date with Madonna, he remembers that she didn't want to go to Disneyland and he didn't want to go to a strip club."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/26/michael-jackson-dateline-rabbi-video/

Imo it's soooooooooooo gross that the Rabbi released the negative words Michael said about Madonna. Madonna spoke loving words and showed empathy at the vma. Her message was genuine imo. Why did the Rabbi release something which destroys the respect and regret she showed for Michael!?

[daniel green]

How do you know that? The man has written many other books. Does he even need the money? Where are the profits going? jmo

I don't understand why Jackson would allow himself to be taped. He had to know there was a possibility of the tapes being made public at sometime. Obviously he didn't care. imo

1) No, he does not need the money.

2) MJ WANTED the tapes released. That is why he had them made.

[daniel green]

None of this matters now, according to who?


I heard the rabbi say he didn't release the tapes before, because the public was receptive to MJ back then....2002 - 2003. (paraphrased)

All about making money off of MJ. imo

Actually, what the Rabbi said is that the public was NOT receptive at the time, because of the child molestation charges.

When they were taping this stuff for the book, MJ wanted the book and tapes to come out as a way to re-tool his image which had taken some major hits due to settling the molestation case (civil) and the charges of anti-Semitism.

Then, as they were planning on the book, MJ was arrested and the Rabbi shelved the tapes, as he did not feel the public would be receptive to them.

[daniel green]

I think the complaint is that Michael never said the things that are being attributed to him. Including here, where I have read that Michael admired Hitler, which simply isn't true. Its true what the Rabbi says in the Huffington Post article, that Michael had enough real flaws, that its unfair to continue to make false allegations about him. And I agree with the Rabbi.

Nobody here has ever claimed that he admired Hitler.

His comments about Hitler needing therapy and love, though, were repulsive, and even the Rabbi says that. All posted upthread. In the Huff-Po link Lynda just re-posted. The Rabbi also says he saw the remarks by MJ about being able to heal Hitler as part of the M-complex. Also evidenced by the painting of the Last Supper MJ had commissioned, with him in it.

[daniel green]

snipped


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/michael-jackson-despised_b_300158.html

LMS

As far as Michael's contention in the book that he could have touched something inside of Hitler in a one-hour meeting, obviously this is ridiculous and I criticize the comment heavily in the book. Hitler was intrinsically evil and had utterly erased any trace of the image of G-d from his countenance. Touch Hitler and all you would have found is rancid bile and poison. But far from this being a demonstration that Michael excused Hitler's evil, it is rather a sad commentary on Michael's hopeless naïveté and growing ******* complex. Michael hated Hitler and knew he was evil. But it was his mistaken belief that there was still something human in him that Michael could uniquely touch. In my book I discuss how one of the more corrosive elements of superstardom is the deification by fans that can lead the object of undo veneration to believe that he is possessed of special abilities. Michael deserves to be strongly criticized for believing too much in his own power to reform those who migrated irreversibly toward the dark side.



Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/michael-jackson-despised_b_300158.html

[daniel green]

Mr Boteach said he became disillusioned with the book - originally set for release in 2003 - after Jackson failed to adhere to recovery programmes they had worked out for his public image and private self. On the Today programme, he insisted that Jackson would still have wanted the tapes to be released. "He did all this because he wanted to consecrate his fame to a higher cause, and that was cause was 'parents prioritise your kids. Don't neglect them, because look what it did to me.'"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8276323.stm

[sallemae]

How do you know that? The man has written many other books. Does he even need the money? Where are the profits going? jmo

I don't understand why Jackson would allow himself to be taped. He had to know there was a possibility of the tapes being made public at sometime. Obviously he didn't care. imo

What does him having written other books have to do with anything? Where are the profits going? I heard him say "SOME" money will go to charity. If he didn't need the money why not all of the proceeds? What's amount is some? Don't you think most interviews are taped?

I don't know that MJ didn't care. imo

[warhorse46]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8276323.stm



I find it rather odd that MJ is advising other parents to prioritize their children when he did not. He prioritized drugs over his children IMO.

[sallemae]

That's always the excuse for anything said or done regarding Jackson.
Everyone was just trying to make money off Jackson, even the children who claimed molestation.

No, it doesn't matter now because Jackson is dead. The Rabbi wrote a book and released some tapes. There is nothing that can be done about that except complain it's all about the money.

That excuse is getting old. After all, that was always Jackson's excuse and fans bought it. Geez

IMO of course


You are so right with the Geez, that's what all of you say when you want defend anyone against MJ...... talk about the excuses!

Anyone that has anything of value that had to do with MJ, knows that it is worth more now than it ever was.....!

imo

[sallemae]

1) No, he does not need the money.

2) MJ WANTED the tapes released. That is why he had them made.


And you know this how?

[sallemae]

Actually, what the Rabbi said is that the public was NOT receptive at the time, because of the child molestation charges.

When they were taping this stuff for the book, MJ wanted the book and tapes to come out as a way to re-tool his image which had taken some major hits due to settling the molestation case (civil) and the charges of anti-Semitism.

Then, as they were planning on the book, MJ was arrested and the Rabbi shelved the tapes, as he did not feel the public would be receptive to them.


did you notice the word paraphrase! Oh, and I had a typo....:rolleyes:

[Imperfect4]

I find it rather odd that MJ is advising other parents to prioritize their children when he did not. He prioritized drugs over his children IMO.

Exactly my thought.

[sallemae]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8276323.stm


So the rabbi was disillusioned? and the book wouldn't sell back then?

[daniel green]

I find it rather odd that MJ is advising other parents to prioritize their children when he did not. He prioritized drugs over his children IMO.

It is absolutely startling.

[sallemae]

I find it rather odd that MJ is advising other parents to prioritize their children when he did not. He prioritized drugs over his children IMO.


Did MJ say this or did the Rabbi speak for him? I didn't read or listen to it.

[daniel green]

did you notice the word paraphrase! Oh, and I had a typo....:rolleyes:

What you posted was not paraphrased. It was the OPPOSITE of what the Rabbi actually said.

[MK~ULTRA]

I find it rather odd that MJ is advising other parents to prioritize their children when he did not. He prioritized drugs over his children IMO.

What's crazy is Michael Jackson was probably on drugs when he offered the advice.

imo... of course.

[MK~ULTRA]

What you posted was not paraphrased. It was the OPPOSITE of what the Rabbi actually said.

Here's why:

snipped

I didn't read or listen to it.

[daniel green]

Meredith Vieira, NBC News: But one of the first questions that people might ask is "did you betray his confidence in any way by releasing these tapes now, after his death?"

Rabbi Shmuley: Not only have I not betrayed any confidences, Michael used to hold the tape recorders directly to his mouth. He would constantly talk to me about the book. “Make sure this is in the book." He desperately wanted this out.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32987303/ns/dateline_nbc-newsmakers/

[daniel green]

What's crazy is Michael Jackson was probably on drugs when he offered the advice.

imo... of course.

Yeah, true.

That stash of drugs and vials was found at NL just after this.

[Imperfect4]

I am not interested in MJ's parenting advice or his personal habits. I don't know what he did and I suggest that neither did anyone else, including his mother. This sad poor frail man lived in the fast lane for many years and I am surprised he made it to 51. RIP Michael.

The "sad poor frail man" who lived in the fast lane was the father of three motherless children who deserved more than a sad poor frail parent.

And he didn't make it to 51.

[on board!]

That's always the excuse for anything said or done regarding Jackson.
Everyone was just trying to make money off Jackson, even the children who claimed molestation.

No, it doesn't matter now because Jackson is dead. The Rabbi wrote a book and released some tapes. There is nothing that can be done about that except complain it's all about the money.

That excuse is getting old. After all, that was always Jackson's excuse and fans bought it. Geez

IMO of course

Not "even" but specially those who came up with false allegations just tried to make money.

[sallemae]

What you posted was not paraphrased. It was the OPPOSITE of what the Rabbi actually said.

I didn't know you needed this much help:


I heard the rabbi say he didn't release the tapes before, because the public was( WASN'T) receptive to MJ back then....2002 - 2003. (paraphrased)


Do you know what typo means??

[sallemae]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32987303/ns/dateline_nbc-newsmakers/

Only the Rabbi makes this statement.....anyone else????

[sallemae]

Here's why:


What are you posting about? I didn't read or listen to what Warhorse posted about..... Either follow along accurately or don't bother.

And I would think that the posters on this board had enough common sense to see that the sentence as it was didn't make sense. Geez anything to bash a poster that doesn't hate on MJ.....

how sad......imo

[warhorse46]

Did MJ say this or did the Rabbi speak for him? I didn't read or listen to it.


Read back through the thread & you will find the answer to your question.

[warhorse46]

I am not interested in MJ's parenting advice or his personal habits. I don't know what he did and I suggest that neither did anyone else, including his mother. This sad poor frail man lived in the fast lane for many years and I am surprised he made it to 51. RIP Michael.


This "sad poor frail man" chose to get himself into that condition through heavy drug use, bizaar behavior & self mutilation. He chose to shoulder the responsibility of the 3 children he created alone, yet he chose to jeopardize that responsibility because of his love for drugs, then tried to convince the world he was the victim. He was a very talented entertainer 20 years ago who allowed his life to be ruined by his out of control behavior. He did not live to 51.

[daniel green]

I am not interested in MJ's parenting advice or his personal habits. snipped.

Amen, ABC. Absolutely.

[daniel green]

This "sad poor frail man" chose to get himself into that condition through heavy drug use, bizaar behavior & self mutilation. He chose to shoulder the responsibility of the 3 children he created alone, yet he chose to jeopardize that responsibility because of his love for drugs, then tried to convince the world he was the victim. He was a very talented entertainer 20 years ago who allowed his life to be ruined by his out of control behavior. He did not live to 51.

You have summed it up very well, WH. Than you.

[Trissy]

I find it rather odd that MJ is advising other parents to prioritize their children when he did not. He prioritized drugs over his children IMO.

Excellent post.

[sallemae]

I find it rather odd that MJ is advising other parents to prioritize their children when he did not. He prioritized drugs over his children IMO.

The rabbi is doing a lot of interpreting, No where did it state MJ advised this or that...imo

[sallemae]

Read back through the thread & you will find the answer to your question.



MJ never said it.....the rabbi did an interpretation!

That wasn't so hard to answer.

[sallemae]

I am not interested in MJ's parenting advice or his personal habits. I don't know what he did and I suggest that neither did anyone else, including his mother. This sad poor frail man lived in the fast lane for many years and I am surprised he made it to 51. RIP Michael.



I really don't think MJ ever lived in the fast lane?!

[Firehead11]

We all know MJ abused drugs -- but what you have to admit is that any person that spent any time with MJ, including the Rabbi, never saw any outward signs of drug use. I have never been in contact with a person that I knew who abused drugs not to show it; even if they tried their best to hide it. Strange ! JMO

I agree with you. Everyone could tell when Anna was drugged out of her mind.

But I do not recall any one time I had seen Jackson drugged. And I also think it is amazing that after he died "everyone knew he was on drugs".

[LadyFuzz]

You asked:

Originally Posted by LadyFuzz
What do you think about the jury being overheard making fun of a witness on a break?

The witness's stories were ridiculous, and the jury saw her for what she was. Evidently the judge didn't feel any jury misconduct took place and the only reason to consider a mistrial, would be for the lack of evidence, and the expense to taxpayers for the DA to have ever brought it to trial in the first place.

Again, did the judge question those jurors separately to determine what had happened? That verdict was invalid as far as I'm concerned because of jury misconduct and the judge letting it ride.

I don't care who overheard the jury, the judge should have investigated that for sure.

imo

[LadyFuzz]

I agree with you. Everyone could tell when Anna was drugged out of her mind.

But I do not recall any one time I had seen Jackson drugged. And I also think it is amazing that after he died "everyone knew he was on drugs".

In the Bashier documentary, Jackson looked high as a kite when he dangled the baby over the balcony and while trying to feed the baby. He looked speeded up on something. The something was probably why he had so much trouble sleeping all the time. Up than down, see what I mean???

JMO

[ResJudicata]

Again, did the judge question those jurors separately to determine what had happened? That verdict was invalid as far as I'm concerned because of jury misconduct and the judge letting it ride.

I don't care who overheard the jury, the judge should have investigated that for sure.

imo


The only misconduct in that trial was by Mr. Sneddon, who imo, should have been prosecuted himself for his gross abuse of power, at the expense of taxpayers.

[ResJudicata]

Amen, ABC. Absolutely.


Odd. For someone praising someone else for not beling interested in him, you seem to spend a lot of time showing your interest.

[Firehead11]

My doctor said something interesting the other day. We talked very little about Steve Tyler and his drug problems. I asked him about Jackson and he said "It is their profession that gets to them"

Interesting!

[ResJudicata]

Actually not. My post about MJ are very few and far between and mainly cause something written caught my attention. The jury in Santa Maria does interest me and for sure, I think those middle class farming community folks were looking to find the truth and I think they did.

It wasn't you I was thinking of when I said it was odd. Sorry if you thought it was. I respect your respect for the Santa Maria jury and their verdict. Hope your weekend is a pleasant one!
:smile:

[ResJudicata]

It's blatantly obvious you have never been in a courtroom for a child sexual abuse case, and know nothing about the topic.

There was FAR more evidence and corroboration in the Michael Jackson case than I have ever witnessed, in over 40 trials....that ended in comviction.

Its blatantly obvious you were never in that Santa Maria courtroom, and that you know nothing about that trial. In the 40 trials that you claim witness to, how many included testimony about escaping via a hot air balloon, or being held against your will, while shopping on Rodeo Drive. Perhaps you have witnessed so many child abuse trials, that you are now incapable of deciphering truth from fiction. And also... if you are in favor of convicting people with less evidence than was presented in the Jackson trial, I'm guessing you don't take issue with all the innocent people who have been convicted, based on false allegations of child sexual abuse.
:bored:

[sallemae]

You're making the same mistake the jury did. The accuser's mother wasn't on trial...Michael Jackson was.

The jury was instructed they could disregard her testimony whole or in part. That went right over their heads.

While I am certain many have been wrongfully convicted, the streets are FILLED with known convicted child sex offenders, they're even registered as such. There's plenty more that haven't been caught. It's a compulsion, they can't stop....and neither could Michael Jackson. imo


Where's the hundreds or dozens of boys at, Michael had thousands of children at Neverland.....where are they? :rolleyes:

[tiptop]

Actually, I was a volunteer witness for a mother falsy accused by the police. Yep, sadly, there is a long history of conviction of those falsley accussed. When the RN, thats me, showed up to testify for the defense, the case was dropped immediately by the ADA. Sadly, Jackson had to go through that whole thing with a DA that was out to get him, ruining his life, Neverland (which was a haven for sick children). I believe McCaully then and I believe him now that there was no child abuse perpetrated against him. Sheldon never proved his case, IMOO.


You touched on something I have been thinking about and dont understand.

By his own admission, children were Michael's life. Their welfare and well being. To heal them if possible or make their last days memorable. His charities and own contributions were so very important to him. So why would you continue to tarnish that which is so important to you? Even if you were innocent/naive of all charges, why would you continue (after court scrutiny) do anything to shed a negative light on those things most important to you? Who would continue to donate to a worthy cause once it was hinted at that the leader had questionable ties to children? I just cant figure out why Michael continued to broadcast that he slept with kids. He should have ceased with that type talk after the first trial.

[GentleBreeze]

You're making the same mistake the jury did. The accuser's mother wasn't on trial...Michael Jackson was.

The jury was instructed they could disregard her testimony whole or in part. That went right over their heads.

While I am certain many have been wrongfully convicted, the streets are FILLED with known convicted child sex offenders, they're even registered as such. There's plenty more that haven't been caught. It's a compulsion, they can't stop....and neither could Michael Jackson. imo

So it is coulda/woulda/shoulda? They also had a right to weigh her totally credibility and they did. Why would any sane juror want her testimony out the equation since she was supposed to be one of the star witnesses in the case? Sneddon put her in but you think the jury should have discounted what she testified to? Her lack of credibility was just more of the same that Sneddon had to contend with throughout his CIC. His case was going down the tubes no matter what DD tried to spin it otherwise.

Couldn't stop? Michael Jackson has been around hundreds possible thousands of children. Where are all these other many many many victims over these many years? Cant stop? Where are all the so called children since 2005? You don't think their parents would want to come forth? So where are they since you say that it is a compulsion and he couldn't stop?

Even psychiatrists have said MJ does not fit the profile of a pedophile and IMO he doesnt because he wasnt a pedophile but he was an easy target for grifters and money grubbers.

imo

[ResJudicata]

You touched on something I have been thinking about and dont understand.

By his own admission, children were Michael's life. Their welfare and well being. To heal them if possible or make their last days memorable. His charities and own contributions were so very important to him. So why would you continue to tarnish that which is so important to you? Even if you were innocent/naive of all charges, why would you continue (after court scrutiny) do anything to shed a negative light on those things most important to you? Who would continue to donate to a worthy cause once it was hinted at that the leader had questionable ties to children? I just cant figure out why Michael continued to broadcast that he slept with kids. He should have ceased with that type talk after the first trial.


That was the first trial, and he did stop. There were no more sick children invited to Neverland after that. There were no more visits from him at the hospitals caring for the dying children. He helped a lot more children than he was falsely accused of hurting. It baffles me that even though this man was fully exonerated of all wrongdoing, the focus is still there, while completely ignoring the hundreds of children he helped for no other reason but that he cared.

[GentleBreeze]

You touched on something I have been thinking about and don't understand.

By his own admission, children were Michael's life. Their welfare and well being. To heal them if possible or make their last days memorable. His charities and own contributions were so very important to him. So why would you continue to tarnish that which is so important to you? Even if you were innocent/naive of all charges, why would you continue (after court scrutiny) do anything to shed a negative light on those things most important to you? Who would continue to donate to a worthy cause once it was hinted at that the leader had questionable ties to children? I just cant figure out why Michael continued to broadcast that he slept with kids. He should have ceased with that type talk after the first trial.


I have never known MJ to have but one trial.

And it was around that time that he admitted he shared his bed with children wasn't it?

I don't recall after the trial was over that he still continued to say he shared his bed with children after then.

I think MJ more or less went into isolation after the verdict and I haven't heard about any other child sharing MJs bed. I think the last one to stay at Neverland was a young girl that MJ had taken interest in her musical talent and she was even to preform during his This Is It tour.

Imo, to the day he died, MJ saw nothing wrong with sharing his bed with children but knew he would always be judged harshly because he had and openly admitted it.

Really MJ was in the entertainment field for 45 years. I think he trusted the children and the parents he came into contact with and was naive enough to think there wouldn't be money grubbers that were willing to do anything to feed their greed for money. He misjudged who he was dealing with a few times along the many years he encountered probably thousands of children.

imo

[tiptop]

That was the first trial, and he did stop. There were no more sick children invited to Neverland after that. There were no more visits from him at the hospitals caring for the dying children. He helped a lot more children than he was falsely accused of hurting. It baffles me that even though this man was fully exonerated of all wrongdoing, the focus is still there, while completely ignoring the hundreds of children he helped for no other reason but that he cared.


Here he is in 2003 talking to 60 Minutes about how it's still ok to share your bed with kids:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/26/60minutes/main590295.shtml

And another in 2003:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30853

The googles go on and on. How can you say he stopped talking about having children in his bed?

[ResJudicata]

Here he is in 2003 talking to 60 Minutes about how it's still ok to share your bed with kids:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/26/60minutes/main590295.shtml

And another in 2003:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30853

The googles go on and on. How can you say he stopped talking about having children in his bed?

It wasn't me who said that.

[tiptop]

I have never known MJ to have but one trial.

And it was around that time that he admitted he shared his bed with children wasn't it?

I don't recall after the trial was over that he still continued to say he shared his bed with children after then.

I think MJ more or less went into isolation after the verdict and I haven't heard about any other child sharing MJs bed. I think the last one to stay at Neverland was a young girl that MJ had taken interest in her musical talent and she was even to preform during his This Is It tour.

Imo, to the day he died, MJ saw nothing wrong with sharing his bed with children but knew he would always be judged harshly because he had and openly admitted it.

Really MJ was in the entertainment field for 45 years. I think he trusted the children and the parents he came into contact with and was naive enough to think there wouldn't be money grubbers that were willing to do anything to feed their greed for money. He misjudged who he was dealing with a few times along the many years he encountered probably thousands of children.

imo

Yes, one trial. He settled the first time around. My mistake in wording. But dont you think after that he should have learned his lesson? Why continue to yap about sleeping with young children?

[tiptop]

<snip>

Imo, to the day he died, MJ saw nothing wrong with sharing his bed with children but knew he would always be judged harshly because he had and openly admitted it. imo

If you had a charity to raise money for abused fighing dogs, would people give knowing Michael Vick headed the organization? I just dont get why MJ continued to talk about it. He could have easily continued doing it without broadcasting to the world.

[GentleBreeze]

Yes, one trial. He settled the first time around. My mistake in wording. But dont you think after that he should have learned his lesson? Why continue to yap about sleeping with young children?

I have no clue. The insurance company settled the first time didnt they? MJ said it was never sexual so I guess he didnt see anything wrong with sharing his bed with children.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

If you had a charity to raise money for abused figging dogs, would people give knowing Michael Vick headed the organization? I just don't get why MJ continued to talk about it. He could have easily continued doing it without broadcasting to the world.

When was the last time he talked about it.

MV did a criminal act and served time for it.

MJ was found Not Guilty of any criminal act. Even Bashir stated he thought MJ lived an eccentric life style but thinks he never did anything illegal.

[LadyFuzz]

I have never known MJ to have but one trial.

And it was around that time that he admitted he shared his bed with children wasn't it?

I don't recall after the trial was over that he still continued to say he shared his bed with children after then.

I think MJ more or less went into isolation after the verdict and I haven't heard about any other child sharing MJs bed. I think the last one to stay at Neverland was a young girl that MJ had taken interest in her musical talent and she was even to preform during his This Is It tour.

Imo, to the day he died, MJ saw nothing wrong with sharing his bed with children but knew he would always be judged harshly because he had and openly admitted it.

Really MJ was in the entertainment field for 45 years. I think he trusted the children and the parents he came into contact with and was naive enough to think there wouldn't be money grubbers that were willing to do anything to feed their greed for money. He misjudged who he was dealing with a few times along the many years he encountered probably thousands of children.

imo

There was another young boy Jackson was grooming imo. The young boy that sang at his memorial. He was scheduled to travel and sing a song at every concert with Jackson. It gives me the shivers. In whose room would he be staying?

IMO of course

[LadyFuzz]

When was the last time he talked about it.

MV did a criminal act and served time for it.

MJ was found Not Guilty of any criminal act. Even Bashir stated he thought MJ lived an eccentric life style but thinks he never did anything illegal.

When did Bashir state he didn't think Jackson did anything illegal? Link please.

[sallemae]

If you had a charity to raise money for abused fighing dogs, would people give knowing Michael Vick headed the organization? I just dont get why MJ continued to talk about it. He could have easily continued doing it without broadcasting to the world.

I understand your train of thought but....
Then it would have been so much worse for the people that immediately thought it was sexual. Sleeping doesn't mean sex! People would have immediately jumped on the bandwagon that he was hiding something.


imo

[daniel green]

WOW. I just finally watched the Dateline I had taped last nigh.

Sooooooooooooo many thinks stuck out.

I'm too tired to write up my thought and comments now, but will do so tomorrow.

But, for starters, MJ believed he could heal children? :scared:

Also, that the impetus for the tape/book was so that MJ and this Rabbi could get a Ntl day of family eating together. :scared: Because it reduces drug use. :ohmy:

[Firehead11]

I have seen several pictures where his eyes clearly showed he was
higher than a kite.

He was pretty jumpy trying to feed PM2 in that documentary. Very spastic and goosey.


Pretty jumpy shows he was drugged? I saw that video where Michael is trying to fed Blanket a bottle. Seemed to me to be pretty nervous and didn't want the baby to cry. But he did not seemed drugged there, IMO.

[sallemae]

Purchased 8 tickets to see the show, "This Is It"

My adult children and their significant others are going with me and my significant other. :cool:

[GentleBreeze]

This "sad poor frail man" chose to get himself into that condition through heavy drug use, bizaar behavior & self mutilation. He chose to shoulder the responsibility of the 3 children he created alone, yet he chose to jeopardize that responsibility because of his love for drugs, then tried to convince the world he was the victim. He was a very talented entertainer 20 years ago who allowed his life to be ruined by his out of control behavior. He did not live to 51.

In the rehearsal clip he neither looked sickly and he sure didn't seen to be sad imo.

I don't think the issue of being a drug addict is that simplistic. I don't think it is a conscious choice they make. No one wants to be a drug addict and the way they start out being one is the doctors who supply them with legitimate drugs at the time it first begins and keeps funneling it to them instead of weening them back.

I don't think MJ loved drugs. I do feel that he thought to exist he had to have these drugs. By taking these drugs for so long it had become a disease.

If it were so easy to break this type of addiction then millions upon millions of addicts would do so each year instead of it being such a teeny tiny minority who does. Very few prescription hard core drug addicts stay clean and sober the rest of their lives even if they try to fight the addiction monster that controlled their lives.

MJ was a victim starting very early on in his life and victimization can make a person vulnerable to become a drug addict. Imo, it is common that addicts do have life experiences of trauma that have happened to them in their lives and it makes them more susceptible to want something to make the pain they feel inside to go away.

The ones who got MJ hooked on these drugs and all the others thereafter kept the addiction going caused the addiction of MJ to happen in the first place. They not only started it but the last doctor who recklessly kept pushing the drugs to him was the last man standing. MJ was dead and another licensed physician acting like a licensed drug pusher.

imo

[LadyFuzz]

Pretty jumpy shows he was drugged? I saw that video where Michael is trying to fed Blanket a bottle. Seemed to me to be pretty nervous and didn't want the baby to cry. But he did not seemed drugged there, IMO.

Yes he did. The baby had a scarf over his face and Jackson trying to shove the nipple in his mouth through the scarf. Jacksons legs were jumping up and down a mile a minuet and Bashir trying to help him get the nipple in the baby's mouth. All this with the baby being bounced up and down very fast and Jackson talking about himself a mile a minuet. Please!!!

Jackson was speeding for sure and was acting very drugged. The look on his face in still pictures when he was dangling the baby was scary.

Nervous?? He said he fed the baby bottles all the time.

JMO of course

[Firehead11]

Yes he did. The baby had a scarf over his face and Jackson trying to shove the nipple in his mouth through the scarf. Jacksons legs were jumping up and down a mile a minuet and Bashir trying to help him get the nipple in the baby's mouth. All this with the baby being bounced up and down very fast and Jackson talking about himself a mile a minuet. Please!!!

Jackson was speeding for sure and was acting very drugged. The look on his face in still pictures when he was dangling the baby was scary.

Nervous?? He said he fed the baby bottles all the time.

JMO of course

Well we have a difference in opinion here, nothing new. Oh and I bounce my leg all the time, drives my hubby nuts but I am not drugged.

[warhorse46]

In the rehearsal clip he neither looked sickly and he sure didn't seen to be sad imo.

I don't think the issue of being a drug addict is that simplistic. I don't think it is a conscious choice they make. No one wants to be a drug addict and the way they start out being one is the doctors who supply them with legitimate drugs at the time it first begins and keeps funneling it to them instead of weening them back.

I don't think MJ loved drugs. I do feel that he thought to exist he had to have these drugs. By taking these drugs for so long it had become a disease.

If it were so easy to break this type of addiction then millions upon millions of addicts would do so each year instead of it being such a teeny tiny minority who does. Very few prescription hard core drug addicts stay clean and sober the rest of their lives even if they try to fight the addiction monster that controlled their lives.

MJ was a victim starting very early on in his life and victimization can make a person vulnerable to become a drug addict. Imo, it is common that addicts do have life experiences of trauma that have happened to them in their lives and it makes them more susceptible to want something to make the pain they feel inside to go away.

The ones who got MJ hooked on these drugs and all the others thereafter kept the addiction going caused the addiction of MJ to happen in the first place. They not only started it but the last doctor who recklessly kept pushing the drugs to him was the last man standing. MJ was dead and another licensed physician acting like a licensed drug pusher.

imo


While I agree with some of your post re the pill pushing money hungry doctors, they are not the sole cause of the problem. If an addict wants to get & stay clean bad enough they will enter rehab & work @ it. Yes they will stumble & back slid some along the way but they persist. A good example is Michael Downy Jr. MJ knew his problem but did not take the necessary steps to solve the problem so he allowed himself to become what he was, an addicted, self mutilated man with bizaar behavior. He loved the drugs more than he loved his children or his family IMO.

[GentleBreeze]

While I agree with some of your post re the pill pushing money hungry doctors, they are not the sole cause of the problem. If an addict wants to get & stay clean bad enough they will enter rehab & work @ it. Yes they will stumble & back slid some along the way but they persist. A good example is Michael Downy Jr. MJ knew his problem but did not take the necessary steps to solve the problem so he allowed himself to become what he was, an addicted, self mutilated man with bizaar behavior. He loved the drugs more than he loved his children or his family IMO.

I respectfully disagree, warhorse and I hold your opinion highly. You cannot convince me that all these millions of people choose to be addicted they way they are. It makes no sense that if a person had a choice and that choice was cut and dried then we wouldn't see CEOs of huge corporations who were millionaires lose everything they had worked so hard for all of their lives. I don't think they make a conscious decision to lose their livelihood, wives and even rights to see their children.

The drug is in control of these people's lives and imo they have no control over a monster so horrible that it is gobbling up more people everyday.

Yes, Robert Downey Jr. so far has advanced but he really was given no choice but to stay clean and sober since he was winding up in the justice system often. But many more are not successful than those who beat this. I don't even take prescription drugs but I have known good decent people who have because they needed it at the time and became addicted and their lives crashed down around them. It is just such a formidable enemy that is unyielding it seems.

JVM said on her show a couple of weeks ago that over 20,000 people lose their lives yearly due to drugs. That shows what a grip this addiction has on people.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

There was another young boy Jackson was grooming imo. The young boy that sang at his memorial. He was scheduled to travel and sing a song at every concert with Jackson. It gives me the shivers. In whose room would he be staying?

IMO of course

Link please........

imo

[GentleBreeze]

When did Bashir state he didn't think Jackson did anything illegal? Link please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8THqOPZywY&feature=related

In his own words.

Now since I have provided the link you asked for I will be expecting you to provide the link where MJ was "grooming" any child.:rolleyes:

imo

[Firehead11]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8THqOPZywY&feature=related

In his own words.

Now since I have provided the link you asked for I will be expecting you to provide the link where MJ was "grooming" any child.:rolleyes:

imo

It will never end, will it?
The boy who sang at the Tribute auditioned on England's Got Talent. Michael was NOT traveling for this tour. All of his shows were to be in London.

[Poochie Pie]

Oh for goodness sake!!! :rolleyes: MJ's shows were in London - the boy LIVED in London and was the winner of the British Has Talent show and sang MJ songs in a couple of his performances. Let's keep it real. JMO "Let's keep it real" indeed, Xenam....!! Always amazes me how "some" will fight tooth and nail to convict a dead man....

Poochie

[Poochie Pie]

WOW. I just finally watched the Dateline I had taped last nigh.

Sooooooooooooo many thinks stuck out.

I'm too tired to write up my thought and comments now, but will do so tomorrow.

But, for starters, MJ believed he could heal children? :scared:

Also, that the impetus for the tape/book was so that MJ and this Rabbi could get a Ntl day of family eating together. :scared: Because it reduces drug use. :ohmy: Hi daniel.... You know, I had kind of the same reaction you had when reading some of the bits and pieces from the Rabbi's interviews... EXCEPT, the things that "scared" me the most were the descriptions from Michael re the beatings he suffered from Daddy Joe... How he "oiled them down before he beat them with the iron cord".. You have posted that for years you have been involved in some manner with troubled and abused children... Just curious as to what your take on these revelations are..??

Poochie

[daniel green]

Hi daniel.... You know, I had kind of the same reaction you had when reading some of the bits and pieces from the Rabbi's interviews... EXCEPT, the things that "scared" me the most were the descriptions from Michael re the beatings he suffered from Daddy Joe... How he "oiled them down before he beat them with the iron cord".. You have posted that for years you have been involved in some manner with troubled and abused children... Just curious as to what your take on these revelations are..??

Poochie

That was a very strange story.

In my work, I have seen many children with keloid scars on their legs, arms and back from being hit with extension cords, or, as we say in the south, drop cords. But the oil thing?

What I found interesting is that the Rabbi said he had no idea if any of those things really happened, but that MJ thought they had happened. :huh:

Also found it bizarre that MJ thought he could heal sick children with his touch.

[daniel green]

In the Bashier documentary, Jackson looked high as a kite when he dangled the baby over the balcony and while trying to feed the baby. He looked speeded up on something. The something was probably why he had so much trouble sleeping all the time. Up than down, see what I mean???

JMO

The shaking hands while attempting to feed the baby a bottle through the veil. :scared:

Maybe the Provigil he took?

[daniel green]

Wah wah...I was brutalized and my shoulder was DISLOCATED by the police...eyeroll...

And the painted-on "bruise." :blushing:

BTW, the Rabbi (who I dislike and disagree with on just about everything he says) did not say he didn't know MJ did drugs. He said he never saw MJ TAKE drugs. He says he knew MJ was an addict and that he broke off their relationship because MJ would not heed his advice about how to lead a good, clean life.

[daniel green]

I have never known MJ to have but one trial.

And it was around that time that he admitted he shared his bed with children wasn't it?

I don't recall after the trial was over that he still continued to say he shared his bed with children after then.

I think MJ more or less went into isolation after the verdict and I haven't heard about any other child sharing MJs bed. snipped

You read much news from the palaces in Bahrain? :huh:

[Firehead11]

I think that many misinterrept the words Jacksons says. This may be because of how one feels about him. I am seeing the same thing said about his songs and his words. Just a feeling I have.


And NO, it is not another excuse used by someone who appreciated Jackson's music and his songs.

[daniel green]

I have no clue. The insurance company settled the first time didnt they? snipped

It was no insurance company, for petes sakes.

It was MJ himself and his two PERSONAL lawyers--who worked for MJ, not any alleged insurance company.

And what MJ signed was that he acknowledged "offensive contacts with plaintiff, both explicitly sexual and otherwise." Settled on explicit sexual negligence.

[Poochie Pie]

That was a very strange story.

In my work, I have seen many children with keloid scars on their legs, arms and back from being hit with extension cords, or, as we say in the south, drop cords. But the oil thing?

What I found interesting is that the Rabbi said he had no idea if any of those things really happened, but that MJ thought they had happened. :huh:

Also found it bizarre that MJ thought he could heal sick children with his touch. Thanks for the reply... Of course it is logical that the Rabbi had no idea if any of those things really happened.. Since he wasn't there... IMO, MJ not only "thought" those things happened, they actually DID happen.. which further supports Michael's "bizzare" behavior in his adult years... Namely, the massive surgeries, especially to his nose.. the skin whitening procedures, caucasion children... etc. It appears to me that he did everything humanly possible to NOT look like his Father.. Very telling, IMO

Poochie

[daniel green]

Both parties signed a legal agreement declaring they would not speak about the case details. When asked why he paid off his accuser, Jackson answered, "I wanted to go on with my life. Too many people had already been hurt. I want to make records. I want to sing. I want to perform again...It's my talent. My hard work. My life. My decision."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_child_sexual_abuse_accusations_against_Michae l_Jackson#cite_ref-tara_540-545_33-4

[Firehead11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_child_sexual_abuse_accusations_against_Michae l_Jackson#cite_ref-tara_540-545_33-4

Although I don't swear by this link because they allow people to correct items and they also do not guarentee that their information is accurate.
Part of their disclaimer:

That is not to say that you will not find valuable and accurate information in Wikipedia; much of the time you will. However, Wikipedia cannot guarantee the validity of the information found here. The content of any given article may recently have been changed, vandalized or altered by someone whose opinion does not correspond with the state of knowledge in the relevant fields. Note that most other encyclopedias and reference works also have similar disclaimers.


Look at when that page was modified:

This page was last modified on 27 September 2009 at 13:47.

Do you agree with this also?

The People v. Jackson trial began in Santa Maria, California, two years after Jackson was originally charged. During the trial, the judge allowed the prosecution to bring in evidence needed to determine whether or not a defendant had a propensity to commit certain crimes. This meant that the prosecution was allowed to use any evidence it had against Jackson from the 1993 allegations to help secure a conviction.[11][12] Although evidence from 1993 was used, Jordan Chandler did not appear in the Jackson trial. The trial lasted five months, and Jackson was found not guilty on all counts in June.[56]

[daniel green]

Although I don't swear by this link because they allow people to correct items and they also do not guarentee that their information is accurate.
snipped

Wiki gives the reference of the MJ quotation saying it was his life, his decision as ^ a b c d e f Taraborrelli, p. 540–545

[saywhat04]

Hi daniel.... You know, I had kind of the same reaction you had when reading some of the bits and pieces from the Rabbi's interviews... EXCEPT, the things that "scared" me the most were the descriptions from Michael re the beatings he suffered from Daddy Joe... How he "oiled them down before he beat them with the iron cord".. You have posted that for years you have been involved in some manner with troubled and abused children... Just curious as to what your take on these revelations are..??

Poochie

I guess the thing that disturbs me about MJ's revelations about his father is, despite all the horrors he claims to have suffered at the hands of JJ -- with his mother looking on -- he thought it was a good idea to leave his children in the care of Katherine, knowing full well his father was still very much in the picture.

[daniel green]

The document then continues to clearly state who is responsible for the payment:

k. "Settlement Payment" refers to the financial consideration to be paid pursuent to this Confidential Settlement by Jackson in accordance with provisions of paragraph 3 hereinbelow.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/thesmokinggun.c...

And here it's explained a bit more detailed:

e. Upon court approval of this Confidential Settlement, Jackson will execute and deliver to the Minor's attorneys of record confessions of judgment, in forms to be approved by the attorneys of record for the Minor prior to execution of this Confidential Settlement, in the total amount of $15,331,250, to be held in trust by the Minor's attorneys of record with no to be made or provided to any other person.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/thesmokinggun.c...

As you see, Jackson - Michael Joseph Jackson - is responsible for the payment of the settlement. The document concludes that with his own signature:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/thesmokinggun.c...

Not once is an insurance company/carrier mentioned in the settlement document. There is a list of third parties, but it doesn't mention one in there either:

http://www.topix.com/forum/who/michael-jackson/TKBVN4QPDBLVHSNM9

[daniel green]

I guess the thing that disturbs me about MJ's revelations about his father is, despite all the horrors he claims to have suffered at the hands of JJ -- with his mother looking on -- he thought it was a good idea to leave his children in the care of Katherine, knowing full well his father was still very much in the picture.

That is hugely troubling. Very disturbing.

[Poochie Pie]

I guess the thing that disturbs me about MJ's revelations about his father is, despite all the horrors he claims to have suffered at the hands of JJ -- with his mother looking on -- he thought it was a good idea to leave his children in the care of Katherine, knowing full well his father was still very much in the picture. I found that a bit disturbing as well, saywhat...!! However, perhaps there were private conversations thru the years with his Mother re the abuse.. We really don't know... Possibly she assured him that if anything ever happened to him, that his children would be cared for and protected under her care.. Obviously he trusted them with her.. I hope that trust is deserved...

Poochie

[Firehead11]

Wiki gives the reference of the MJ quotation saying it was his life, his decision as ^ a b c d e f Taraborrelli, p. 540–545

Oh goody, I'll run right out and purchase that book to find out if it is there. :rolleyes:

That page was altered today, by whom I don't know. I could add something and put a reference number there.

But no matter what you will believe what you have choosen to believe for all of these years. I just pointed out a fact.

I do question why JC never testified at the trial. Hell he could have helped put his molester in jail and he didn't. I wonder why. He already had ALL of his millions.

[ResJudicata]

Wiki gives the reference of the MJ quotation saying it was his life, his decision as ^ a b c d e f Taraborrelli, p. 540–545


He also said:

"They've worn me down, I admit it, what more can they do to humiliate me, to ruin me? I don't know what else to do but pay the guy."
(page 542)

And this:

..."I'd never hurt a child, and any child that has ever been my friend knows that. I'd never, ever, ever hurt any child on this planet." "I want to go on with my life. I want to make records. I want to sing. I want to perform again."
(page 544)

[daniel green]

He also said:

snipped

And he also said he'd had only two plastic surgeries (on his nose) and could heal children with his touch. :blushing:

[ResJudicata]

And he also said he'd had only two plastic surgeries (on his nose) and could heal children with his touch. :blushing:


He probably would have been better off saying its none of your business. And as far as healing children with his touch, I'm not sure. I am sure that he visited many hospitals, and terminally ill children, as well as inviting many to Neverland. I feel confident that the joy he brought those children during their last days meant the world to the children, and their families. I think that whether or not he had healing powers isn't what really matters. What really matters is that he cared deeply, and that he did in fact bring smiles and joy to a good number of terminally ill kids, and he donated large sums of money to various medically related charities. I believe its very unfortunate and speaks to what this world has become, that we have loss sight of the good in people and focus on trivial things that serve no purpose and further diminish humanity.

[Firehead11]

I don't believe for a second that Joe beat up on any of those kids. Just as I don't believe the Phillips girl. Do or did they believe what they claimed? I don't know. As much as Jackson was in the Public Eye, except for his own self mutilation, did anyone ever see him bruised or battered? Very sad and may he RIP. I do believe he thought he could help children and that he did. I find his peace at Neverland and all he did for kid being disrupted a tragedy. Joe lives in Las Vegas and is frequently out and about. being seen. Which leads me to believe he is not actually much in the picture of the LA family.

I agree with the bolded part. I don't know about Joe beating up on him or the other children but there was something that hurt him at an early age. I mean no offense to anyone but I think mental abuse is a lot worse than physical abuse. But if you look at the early pictures of Jackson, most times he was in long sleeves and a vest, how could you tell?

I think that is what he meant when he says he could heal children. He gave them a hope that no one else could have. Sort of like if you are distressed and someone gives you a hug, it heals a part of your heart but not any disese, know what I mean?

I never believed he would hurt a child, never. Out of all the children his life has touched, only three have claimed anything. The first got paid millions. Once that was done, it opened up the door to others.

Such a shame. So much more could have been accomplished with his life.

[Firehead11]

He probably would have been better off saying its none of your business. And as far as healing children with his touch, I'm not sure. I am sure that he visited many hospitals, and terminally ill children, as well as inviting many to Neverland. I feel confident that the joy he brought those children during their last days meant the world to the children, and their families. I think that whether or not he had healing powers isn't what really matters. What really matters is that he cared deeply, and that he did in fact bring smiles and joy to a good number of terminally ill kids, and he donated large sums of money to various medically related charities. I believe its very unfortunate and speaks to what this world has become, that we have loss sight of the good in people and focus on trivial things that serve no purpose and further diminish humanity.



:thumbsup:

[LadyFuzz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8THqOPZywY&feature=related

In his own words.

Now since I have provided the link you asked for I will be expecting you to provide the link where MJ was "grooming" any child.:rolleyes:

imo

I guess you didn't notice I put in my opinion. However, it was said at the memorial he would be meeting Jackson in England and singing one song with him in each concert. He was grooming that child like he did others traveling with him to concerts. That is my opinion.:rolleyes:

IMO

As to your statement, you didn't put it was in your opinion nor did you supply a link.

[Poochie Pie]

I agree with the bolded part. I don't know about Joe beating up on him or the other children but there was something that hurt him at an early age. I mean no offense to anyone but I think mental abuse is a lot worse than physical abuse. But if you look at the early pictures of Jackson, most times he was in long sleeves and a vest, how could you tell?

I think that is what he meant when he says he could heal children. He gave them a hope that no one else could have. Sort of like if you are distressed and someone gives you a hug, it heals a part of your heart but not any disese, know what I mean?

I never believed he would hurt a child, never. Out of all the children his life has touched, only three have claimed anything. The first got paid millions. Once that was done, it opened up the door to others.

Such a shame. So much more could have been accomplished with his life. Firehead, you read my mind..!! I was just going to post the fact that in all of the appearances of The Jackson 5 that I have seen, Michael did have on long sleeves and pants... We would not see bruises nor scars... I absolutely agree that "something" hurt him in the early years... We should all keep in mind that "scars" from mental abuse are invisible as well.. To the naked eye, of course..

Poochie

[LadyFuzz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8THqOPZywY&feature=related

In his own words.

Now since I have provided the link you asked for I will be expecting you to provide the link where MJ was "grooming" any child.:rolleyes:

imo

Wow, what BS coming from Bashir. When he filmed that documentary he sure felt there was plenty wrong. I can see he said what he did at this time because Jackson had just died. jmo

[daniel green]

snipped

I think that is what he meant when he says he could heal children. He gave them a hope that no one else could have. Sort of like if you are distressed and someone gives you a hug, it heals a part of your heart but not any disese, know what I mean?

.

It's not what MJ meant. Have you listened to the tapes? Did you watch Dateline or the Today Show? Because MJ was quite explicit about his ability to heal.

Just like he thought he could have healed Hitler and changed him.

It's what MJ said.

[GentleBreeze]

He also said:

"They've worn me down, I admit it, what more can they do to humiliate me, to ruin me? I don't know what else to do but pay the guy."
(page 542)

And this:

..."I'd never hurt a child, and any child that has ever been my friend knows that. I'd never, ever, ever hurt any child on this planet." "I want to go on with my life. I want to make records. I want to sing. I want to perform again."
(page 544)

Thank you.

[LadyFuzz]

You are entitled to an opinion even if it is far removed from reality.

Stop bashing me for my opinions!!!!! My bolding.

[ResJudicata]

It's not what MJ meant. Have you listened to the tapes? Did you watch Dateline or the Today Show? Because MJ was quite explicit about his ability to heal.

Just like he thought he could have healed Hitler and changed him.

It's what MJ said.


We have listened to the snippets of the tapes. I don't believe any of us have heard the tapes in totality, and we really have no idea what else might have been said, or if those snippets were taken out of context. The thing that struck me most is the Rabbi admitting that he walked away from MJ instead of trying to help him, during his time of need.

[daniel green]

[B]Firehead, you read my mind..!! I was just going to post the fact that in all of the appearances of The Jackson 5 that I have seen, Michael did have on long sleeves and pants... We would not see bruises nor scars... snipped

As ABC so interestingly pointed out upthread, MJ was in the public eye since he was 5. Someone would have noticed the welts, brusing and scarring if it were the case the Joe J beat the oiled children with an iron cord, as MJ alleges.

http://www.jackson5abc.com/albums/goin-back-to-indiana/goin-back_photo1.jpg

http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00345/Michael-03_Getty_345343s.jpg

[ResJudicata]

Stop bashing me for my opinions!!!!! My bolding.


It was an observation. Sorry if you interpreted it as bashing.

[ResJudicata]

As ABC so interestingly pointed out upthread, MJ was in the public eye since he was 5. Someone would have noticed the welts, brusing and scarring if it were the case the Joe J beat the oiled children with an iron cord, as MJ alleges.

http://www.jackson5abc.com/albums/goin-back-to-indiana/goin-back_photo1.jpg


The picture you linked proves absolutely nothing. I don't recall ever seeing pictures of MJ's backside. Joe has admitted to beating MJ. Is it common in your profession to discount tales of an abusive parent, or is that just the standard for MJ?

[LadyFuzz]

It was an observation. Sorry if you interpreted it as bashing.

You're saying I am detracted from reality is bashing. I don't care about your observations of me. This thread is not about me. You made a big deal about putting me on ignore the other day. Too bad it didn't last longer. imo

[sallemae]

It was no insurance company, for petes sakes.

It was MJ himself and his two PERSONAL lawyers--who worked for MJ, not any alleged insurance company.

And what MJ signed was that he acknowledged "offensive contacts with plaintiff, both explicitly sexual and otherwise." Settled on explicit sexual negligence.


One of several articles stating that an Insurance company paid
http://mjthekingofpop.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/the-1993-civil-settlement-was-made-by-mr-jackson%E2%80%99s-insurance-company-and-was-not-within-mr-jackson%E2%80%99s-control/


From the article: .... The insurance carrier negotiated and paid the
settlement, over the protests of Mr. Jackson and his personal legal counsel.”

[ResJudicata]

You're saying I am detracted from reality is bashing. I don't care about your observations of me. This thread is not about me. You made a big deal about putting me on ignore the other day. Too bad it didn't last longer. imo


I don't put posters on ignore, and if I did I think its pretty lame to announce it on the board. You have me mistaken for another poster.

[saywhat04]

I found that a bit disturbing as well, saywhat...!! However, perhaps there were private conversations thru the years with his Mother re the abuse.. We really don't know... Possibly she assured him that if anything ever happened to him, that his children would be cared for and protected under her care.. Obviously he trusted them with her.. I hope that trust is deserved...

Poochie

With all due respect, I don't think private conversations between MJ and Katherine would be sufficient to resolve the legacy of the reported physical and sexual abuse perpetrated by JJ on his children.

[saywhat04]

I don't believe for a second that Joe beat up on any of those kids. Just as I don't believe the Phillips girl. Do or did they believe what they claimed? I don't know. As much as Jackson was in the Public Eye, except for his own self mutilation, did anyone ever see him bruised or battered? Very sad and may he RIP. I do believe he thought he could help children and that he did. I find his peace at Neverland and all he did for kid being disrupted a tragedy. Joe lives in Las Vegas and is frequently out and about. being seen. Which leads me to believe he is not actually much in the picture of the LA family.

I have no clue what you're trying to say here. Sorry. :confused:

[GentleBreeze]

Wow, what BS coming from Bashir. When he filmed that documentary he sure felt there was plenty wrong. I can see he said what he did at this time because Jackson had just died. jmo

Why can you see this man who tried his best to ruin MJ saying this? barf

Brashir was a backstabber from the get go. He praised MJ many times in MJs home yet he edited the documentary, even his own words he left out.... to get more bang for the buck.

I think after MJs death Brashir is left with a guilty conscience on how he lied and twisted the real MJ in order to sensationalize it for ratings. He was a hypocrite all along. He didn't even believe MJ hurt children when he did the documentary but conveyed a much different slanted view to the world.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym39bti4rCk&feature=related

[GentleBreeze]

The picture you linked proves absolutely nothing. I don't recall ever seeing pictures of MJ's backside. Joe has admitted to beating MJ. Is it common in your profession to discount tales of an abusive parent, or is that just the standard for MJ?

True and abusers know where to strike their victims. Joe was never going to mar his face so he couldn't perform but he sure could beat on the rest of him that went unseen. It happens in many families where the children are abused.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

We have listened to the snippets of the tapes. I don't believe any of us have heard the tapes in totality, and we really have no idea what else might have been said, or if those snippets were taken out of context. The thing that struck me most is the Rabbi admitting that he walked away from MJ instead of trying to help him, during his time of need.


I did find that odd since he is a Rabbi.

imo

[Poochie Pie]

As ABC so interestingly pointed out upthread, MJ was in the public eye since he was 5. Someone would have noticed the welts, brusing and scarring if it were the case the Joe J beat the oiled children with an iron cord, as MJ alleges.

http://www.jackson5abc.com/albums/goin-back-to-indiana/goin-back_photo1.jpg

http://www.independent.ie/multimedia/archive/00345/Michael-03_Getty_345343s.jpg And as "I" pointed out daniel, with long sleeves and pants on in all of the Videos that I saw, how would someone notice welts, bruising and scarring on MJ's back and his buttocks..?? Many abused children are in the public eye every day.. How would we KNOW they being abused if the bruises and scars are under their clothing..?? :unsure:

Poochie

[ResJudicata]

I did find that odd since he is a Rabbi.

imo


He reminds me of the Rabbi on Seinfeld.

[Poochie Pie]

I did find that odd since he is a Rabbi.

imo He may be a Rabbi, GB... But unfortunately he has now made himself just one of the many who have come out of the wood work to present MJ as a bizzare, drug addicted, abnormal freak... I find that sad... IMO

Poochie

[sallemae]

Not all is good with the Rabbi! imo

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,73709,00.html


....London newspapers reported that Boteach was ousted from the L'Chaim Society of Oxford University for mismanagement of funds....


Seems the money he collected for one of MJ's charities is unaccounted for.



I think he is trying to make money off of MJ. imo

[Poochie Pie]

Not all is good with the Rabbi! imo

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,73709,00.html


....London newspapers reported that Boteach was ousted from the L'Chaim Society of Oxford University for mismanagement of funds....


Seems the money he collected for one of MJ's charities is unaccounted for.



I think he is trying to make money off of MJ. imo Well.... imagine THAT...!! Thanks for the info salle... Interesting..

Poochie

[saywhat04]

Folks can hammer away at the rabbi all day, but the fact remains, it was Michael's voice on the tapes.

I find it amusing, and "telling," even though it was Michael's odd view of the world and himself, described in Michael's very own taped words that were heard, it is the rabbi who is to blame.

Michael Jackson simply cannot be held accountable for anything he said or did in his life. Imo, this is a disturbing study in how some can be struck blind by idol worship.

The people who seem nearly giddy at the presumed fortune being amassed by their idol's estate since his death, are the same people who pass judgment on the rabbi and his motives.

[ResJudicata]

[QUOTE=ABC;13513274]Whats to be sorry? Its not like it's Paul's Letter to the Corthianthians. Its my little post on a debate board.

snipped
QUOTE]


This totally made me crack up. Too funny!
:laugh:

[saywhat04]

Whats to be sorry? Its not like it's Paul's Letter to the Corthianthians. Its my little post on a debate board.
BTW, I don't believe folks beaten by a slicked iron cord or kicked or bruised and battered are jumping, dancing, singing and looking happy. I don't think it works like that.

What I found confusing about your post is that you apparently don't believe a word MJ said about his abuse by his father, yet you are a big MJ fan. In my head, the two things can't co-exist. A grown man who would say horrible, untrue things about his own father is not someone I would admire.

[ResJudicata]

Folks can hammer away at the rabbi all day, but the fact remains, it was Michael's voice on the tapes.

I find it amusing, and "telling," even though it was Michael's odd view of the world and himself, described in Michael's very own taped words that were heard, it is the rabbi who is to blame.

Michael Jackson simply cannot be held accountable for anything he said or did in his life. Imo, this is disturbing study in how some can be struck blind by idol worship.

The same people who seem nearly giddy at the presumed fortune being amassed by their idol's estate since his death, are the same people who pass judgment on the rabbi and his motives.

I think people are questioning the Rabbi's motive, and perhaps some will think twice before they ever again confide in clergy. Michaels words are his words, probably taken out of context, and interpreted differently by different people.

By the way, I have worshiped one person as an idol, and that was Robert Plant, and that ended by age 17. Although I still enjoy watching him in the Song Remains the Same....every now and again.

Michael Jackson was a human being, and as such had faults. None of us are immune from it. But Michael also had many good qualities, that are too often forgotten...imo

[Poochie Pie]

Folks can hammer away at the rabbi all day, but the fact remains, it was Michael's voice on the tapes.

I find it amusing, and "telling," even though it was Michael's odd view of the world and himself, described in Michael's very own taped words that were heard, it is the rabbi who is to blame.

Michael Jackson simply cannot be held accountable for anything he said or did in his life. Imo, this is disturbing study in how some can be struck blind by idol worship.

The same people who seem nearly giddy at the presumed fortune being amassed by their idol's estate since his death, are the same people who pass judgment on the rabbi and his motives. I can ASSURE you saywhat, that I am in no way "struck blind by idol worship" re MJ..!! With that said, I do question the Rabbi's motives.. It simply has to do with respect and responsibility.. If you had personal problems in your life, or struggled with some sort of addiction, made some "off the wall musings", would you expect a Rabbi, or Minister.. Pastor of your Church to be discussing it with the national public after your death..?? I just find it disrespectful... IMO

Poochie

[saywhat04]

I can ASSURE you saywhat, that I am in no way "struck blind by idol worship" re MJ..!! With that said, I do question the Rabbi's motives.. It simply has to do with respect and responsibility.. If you had personal problems in your life, or struggled with some sort of addiction, made some "off the wall musings", would you expect a Rabbi, or Minister.. Pastor of your Church to be discussing it with the national public after your death..?? I just find it disrespectful... IMO

Poochie

Sycophant: In a modern context a sycophant (from the Greek συκοφάντης sykophántēs) is a servile person who, acting in his or her own self-interest, attempts to win favor by flattering one or more influential persons, or by saying lies against a fellow citizen for gaining a kind of profit. These actions are executed at the cost of his or her own personal pride, principles, and peer respect. Such a manner is also called obsequiousness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sycophant

There are sycophants in every profession, and many celebrities surround themselves with them. MJ's inner circle was composed of people who would do his bidding. The rabbi was the cardiologist was the financial advisor was the attorney was the concert promoter and on and on. All the various sycophant advisers of MJ's past who done him wrong (including members of his own family), coupled with the actions of the shady drug doc, and now comes the shady rabbi, and I'm sure there are more floats in this parade ... should be a surprise to no one. imo

[LadyFuzz]

I noticed, in the tapes, Jackson talked about his obsession with mannequins. :rolleyes:

imo

[sallemae]

Wow, what BS coming from Bashir. When he filmed that documentary he sure felt there was plenty wrong. I can see he said what he did at this time because Jackson had just died. jmo


Why would Bashir just say it now, because MJ has passed, Think someone made him say it? Did he need the attention? Maybe he's going to write a book.....:rolleyes:

I think he believes what he said about MJ, there was no criminal acts!'

imo

[sallemae]

I noticed, in the tapes, Jackson talked about his obsession with mannequins. :rolleyes:

imo

They don't tell lies....:w00t:

[Roxxanne]

They don't tell lies....:w00t:

Good one sallemae!!:laugh:

[LadyFuzz]

Why can you see this man who tried his best to ruin MJ saying this? barf

Brashir was a backstabber from the get go. He praised MJ many times in MJs home yet he edited the documentary, even his own words he left out.... to get more bang for the buck.

I think after MJs death Brashir is left with a guilty conscience on how he lied and twisted the real MJ in order to sensationalize it for ratings. He was a hypocrite all along. He didn't even believe MJ hurt children when he did the documentary but conveyed a much different slanted view to the world.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym39bti4rCk&feature=related


Slanted, editied, much different slanted view to the world? That was the most real documentary ever about Jackson.

Jackson said to the world he slept with little boys and saw nothing wrong with it. He said what's wrong with showing love and everyone should do it. That was done with a young boy's head on his shoulder.barf

There was nothing edited or slanted there. That's when the world knew what Jackson was. If there was a doubt before, that ended it right there.

imo of course

[LadyFuzz]

They don't tell lies....:w00t:

I'm not.:rolleyes:

[LadyFuzz]

Why would Bashir just say it now, because MJ has passed, Think someone made him say it? Did he need the attention? Maybe he's going to write a book.....:rolleyes:

I think he believes what he said about MJ, there was no criminal acts!'

imo

None proven unfortunately. One big one paid off though. imo

[Poochie Pie]

I noticed, in the tapes, Jackson talked about his obsession with mannequins. :rolleyes:

imo I noticed that too... Not that bizzare to me though.. I have an obsession with The Borg... But.. that's another story.. LOL

Poochie

[sallemae]

None proven unfortunately. One big one paid off though. imo



Not a big criminal act..... :angry: The lies paid off..... I think I might get me some mannequins. :glare:

[LadyFuzz]

I noticed that too... Not that bizzare to me though.. I have an obsession with The Borg... But.. that's another story.. LOL

Poochie

Life size mannequins of young boys are different. Ewwwww:ohmy: IMO

[LadyFuzz]

Not a big criminal act..... :angry: The lies paid off..... I think I might get me some mannequins. :glare:


WAAAA WAAAAAA everyone lies on Jackson. Even children. Same old excuse Jackson used and posters always use.

At least the public found out what he was. IMO

That type mannequin is very expensive. Hope you can aford them. imo

[Poochie Pie]

I don't believe that Joe abused Michael of any of the children. I am NOT an MJ fan, at all. Never heard his voice and only saw snippets of his "dancing" from the unavoidable endless loops played in the little box on Fox News after his death. That is true of the Jackson 5 too and I think they are NO talent. None the less, I feel sadness for the way he was persecuted by DA Sheldon, self mutilated and felt the need to abandon his treasured home at Neverland. I found him a sad soul. Pray he Rests In Peace and those children grow up to be happy, productive adults. Folks can have empathy without agreeing about issues, IMOO. Very nice and honest post ABC... You are correct.. Folks can have empathy without agreeing about issues..

Poochie

[saywhat04]

They don't tell lies....:w00t:

Plenty of real life humans don't tell lies, either. But the humans MJ chose to associate with were the ones who told him what he wanted to hear. imo

[saywhat04]

I don't believe that Joe abused Michael of any of the children. I am NOT an MJ fan, at all. Never heard his voice and only saw snippets of his "dancing" from the unavoidable endless loops played in the little box on Fox News after his death. That is true of the Jackson 5 too and I think they are NO talent. None the less, I feel sadness for the way he was persecuted by DA Sheldon, self mutilated and felt the need to abandon his treasured home at Neverland. I found him a sad soul. Pray he Rests In Peace and those children grow up to be happy, productive adults. Folks can have empathy without agreeing about issues, IMOO.

Ah. I understand now. Thanks for the explanation. :smile:

[ResJudicata]

snipped

At least the public found out what he was. IMO

imo


You don't speak for the public, and you for sure don't speak for me.

[GentleBreeze]

I noticed, in the tapes, Jackson talked about his obsession with mannequins. :rolleyes:

imo

Reminds me of someone else here a while ago that seemed to be fixated on mannequins.

Maybe they were lonely too like MJ, who knows.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

They don't tell lies....:w00t:

And when they are there you are never alone.:w00t:

imo

[GentleBreeze]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_en_mu/us_film_michael_jackson

Jackson sneak peek screenings sell out in 2 hours


1 hr 11 mins ago
LOS ANGELES – Michael Jackson is still playing to sellout crowds.

Advance screenings to the music documentary "Michael Jackson: This Is It" sold out within two hours early Sunday as fans who began lining up three days earlier snapped up all 3,000 tickets to the Los Angeles shows.

[Poochie Pie]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_en_mu/us_film_michael_jackson

Jackson sneak peek screenings sell out in 2 hours


1 hr 11 mins ago
LOS ANGELES – Michael Jackson is still playing to sellout crowds.

Advance screenings to the music documentary "Michael Jackson: This Is It" sold out within two hours early Sunday as fans who began lining up three days earlier snapped up all 3,000 tickets to the Los Angeles shows. doesn't surprise me GB..!! I would have loved to have been there..

Poochie

[LadyFuzz]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_en_mu/us_film_michael_jackson

Jackson sneak peek screenings sell out in 2 hours


1 hr 11 mins ago
LOS ANGELES – Michael Jackson is still playing to sellout crowds.

Advance screenings to the music documentary "Michael Jackson: This Is It" sold out within two hours early Sunday as fans who began lining up three days earlier snapped up all 3,000 tickets to the Los Angeles shows.

Of course. Everyone wants to see if he is high on drugs. After all, the publicity of his death pushed sales. imo

My guess, in a year or two if it shows again, people will be wondering who he is. :biggrin:

It's always good to strike while the iron is hot to make the bucks.

JMO

[LadyFuzz]

Reminds me of someone else here a while ago that seemed to be fixated on mannequins.

Maybe they were lonely too like MJ, who knows.

imo

Wasn't there a poster here who thought the mannequins meant nothing? I guess they found out different with those tapes coming out. They sure meant a lot to Jackson. imo

[LadyFuzz]

And when they are there you are never alone.:w00t:

imo

Oh for sure. For sure. In more ways than one. :w00t:

imo

[Poochie Pie]

Of course. Everyone wants to see if he is high on drugs. After all, the publicity of his death pushed sales. imo

My guess, in a year or two if it shows again, people will be wondering who he is. :biggrin:

It's always good to strike while the iron is hot to make the bucks.

JMO Have to disagree there, LadyFuzz... I have no desire what so ever to see if he was "high on drugs"... The publicity of a celebrity's death ALWAYS pushes sales.. After Elvis died, a piece of fuzz from one of his costumes was more than likely in demand..

Poochie

[GentleBreeze]

Oh for sure. For sure. In more ways than one. :w00t:

imo

Hmmm so you are saying you know.:w00t:

Oh my, please tell us more.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Wasn't there a poster here who thought the mannequins meant nothing? I guess they found out different with those tapes coming out. They sure meant a lot to Jackson. imo

I don't remember a poster saying they meant nothing to MJ. I think MJ prided himself in having the high priced collectible mannequins and they held a special spot in his heart. He was a lonely man and I hope he felt happy when surrounded by them.

Of course they meant something to him just like others who collect other type of collectibles.

imo

[ResJudicata]

Hmmm so you are saying you know.:w00t:

Oh my, please tell us more.

imo


Eww...NO.... please, no.
barf

[GentleBreeze]

Have to disagree there, LadyFuzz... I have no desire what so ever to see if he was "high on drugs"... The publicity of a celebrity's death ALWAYS pushes sales.. After Elvis died, a piece of fuzz from one of his costumes was more than likely in demand..

Poochie

Me either and he sure didn't look high on drugs to me. He was very engaging and totally involved.

I sure want to see this movie.

imo

[warhorse46]

I don't believe that Joe abused Michael of any of the children. I am NOT an MJ fan, at all. Never heard his voice and only saw snippets of his "dancing" from the unavoidable endless loops played in the little box on Fox News after his death. That is true of the Jackson 5 too and I think they are NO talent. None the less, I feel sadness for the way he was persecuted by DA Sheldon, self mutilated and felt the need to abandon his treasured home at Neverland. I found him a sad soul. Pray he Rests In Peace and those children grow up to be happy, productive adults. Folks can have empathy without agreeing about issues, IMOO.



Do you mead DA Sneddon? He is the one who prosecuted MJ, not someone named Sheldon.

[LadyFuzz]

It seems as though the Jacksons are falling out of public and media interest. I'll bet they don't like that. Even Geraldo says nothing more about Jackson.

I bet Dr Murray is back practicing at his offices. No reason not to. Since his patients loved him there won't be a shortage of patients to threat.

jmo

[ResJudicata]

It seems as though the Jacksons are falling out of public and media interest. I'll bet they don't like that. Even Geraldo says nothing more about Jackson.

I bet Dr Murray is back practicing at his offices. No reason not to. Since his patients loved him there won't be a shortage of patients to threat.

jmo

Or he's busy fighting off creditors.



He has been less than reliable in his personal affairs. Murray has been plagued with unpaid debts, delinquent taxes and lawsuits from creditors, legal records show.

He has fathered at least seven children with six women over the years, most of them out of wedlock, according to a deposition he gave in a 1998 paternity suit and a California birth record for his youngest child, who was born in March. He has been sued several times for child support, and in his youth was arrested at least twice on charges brought by female companions, once for fraudulent breach of trust and once for domestic violence, though never convicted.

Murray declined to be interviewed for this article. His spokeswoman, Miranda Sevcik, said Murray does not regard his personal life and financial difficulties as germane to the investigation of Jackson’s death.

By all accounts, Murray was in dire financial condition when he took the job with Jackson in May. He was $100,000 behind on the mortgage on his 5,200-square-foot home in Las Vegas and faced foreclosure, an official with Stewart Title Foreclosure told The Associated Press.

Since April 2008, his practices in Nevada and Texas have faced $634,000 in court judgments for unpaid rent and medical equipment, court records in both states show.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/6639298.html

[ResJudicata]

It seems as though the Jacksons are falling out of public and media interest. I'll bet they don't like that. Even Geraldo says nothing more about Jackson.

I bet Dr Murray is back practicing at his offices. No reason not to. Since his patients loved him there won't be a shortage of patients to threat.

jmo

Heres one patient who loves him:



In an exclusive interview with RadarOnline.com, Becky Altringer said Evi Quaid went to Dr. Conrad Murray to fill her many drug prescriptions, including one for Demerol, which she allegedly like to snort on a regular basis.

“Evi told me she got her Demerol from Dr. Murray and plus another doctor,” Altringer said. “She told me that she and Michael Jackson had the same doctors.”

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/exclusive-pi-says-evi-quaid-michael-jackson-had-drug-connection

[MK~ULTRA]

snipped

He has been less than reliable in his personal affairs. Murray has been plagued with unpaid debts, delinquent taxes and lawsuits from creditors, legal records show.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/6639298.html

Wow. Murray and Michael Jackson were 'two peas in a pod' when it comes to financial responsibility.

imo... of course.

[saywhat04]

Or he's busy fighting off creditors.



He has been less than reliable in his personal affairs. Murray has been plagued with unpaid debts, delinquent taxes and lawsuits from creditors, legal records show.

He has fathered at least seven children with six women over the years, most of them out of wedlock, according to a deposition he gave in a 1998 paternity suit and a California birth record for his youngest child, who was born in March. He has been sued several times for child support, and in his youth was arrested at least twice on charges brought by female companions, once for fraudulent breach of trust and once for domestic violence, though never convicted.

Murray declined to be interviewed for this article. His spokeswoman, Miranda Sevcik, said Murray does not regard his personal life and financial difficulties as germane to the investigation of Jackson’s death.

By all accounts, Murray was in dire financial condition when he took the job with Jackson in May. He was $100,000 behind on the mortgage on his 5,200-square-foot home in Las Vegas and faced foreclosure, an official with Stewart Title Foreclosure told The Associated Press.

Since April 2008, his practices in Nevada and Texas have faced $634,000 in court judgments for unpaid rent and medical equipment, court records in both states show.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/6639298.html

Shady across-the-board, it would seem.

You'd think MJ would make a better selection of a personal physician he agreed to compensate at $150K a month.

[saywhat04]

Heres one patient who loves him:



In an exclusive interview with RadarOnline.com, Becky Altringer said Evi Quaid went to Dr. Conrad Murray to fill her many drug prescriptions, including one for Demerol, which she allegedly like to snort on a regular basis.

“Evi told me she got her Demerol from Dr. Murray and plus another doctor,” Altringer said. “She told me that she and Michael Jackson had the same doctors.”

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/exclusive-pi-says-evi-quaid-michael-jackson-had-drug-connection

Wonder if MJ did any sort of background check on Dr. Shady there before he signed him up? If I agreed to pay a personal physician $150K/month, I'd definitely do a background check.

Either MJ didn't have him checked out, which is about $150k/month worth of crazy ... or he did check him out, and liked what he learned.

[warhorse46]

It seems as though the Jacksons are falling out of public and media interest. I'll bet they don't like that. Even Geraldo says nothing more about Jackson.

I bet Dr Murray is back practicing at his offices. No reason not to. Since his patients loved him there won't be a shortage of patients to threat.

jmo


He should work all he can to pay off all those debts & now his lawyer fees.

[warhorse46]

Shady across-the-board, it would seem.

You'd think MJ would make a better selection of a personal physician he agreed to compensate at $150K a month.




I think shady is exactly what MJ wanted. Someone who would do his bidding without any questions or fuss.

[LadyFuzz]

Wonder if MJ did any sort of background check on Dr. Shady there before he signed him up? If I agreed to pay a personal physician $150K/month, I'd definitely do a background check.

Either MJ didn't have him checked out, which is about $150k/month worth of crazy ... or he did check him out, and liked what he learned.

Background check???? Jackson was only thinking about getting his drugs anyway he could.:biggrin:

imo

[saywhat04]

He should work all he can to pay off all those debts & now his lawyer fees.

I don't know about you, warhorse, but I'll pass. There's a veterinarian up the street I'd go to first. :laugh:

[ResJudicata]

Wow. Murray and Michael Jackson were 'two peas in a pod' when it comes to financial responsibility.

imo... of course.

At least Michael didn't make a living negligently killing people.

Today, TMZ published an exclusive which cites a Nevada coroner’s report claiming that in 2007, Jackson’s now famous doctor, cardiologist Conrad Murray (who had offices in Texas and Nevada) mistakenly punctured the heart of a 67-year-old Las Vegas man during a procedure—and that the medical misstep was a cause in the man’s death. But because the case (like all medical malpractice cases) would have been so extremely expensive to pursue, the family never filed suit. Consequently, we’ll never know if this case may have been enough to raise red flags for future patients like Michael Jackson.

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:YTw4yj0bItUJ:www.thepoptort.com/2009/07/michael-jacksons-doctor-and-socalled-tort-reform-.html+dr.+conrad+murray+cardiologist,+punctured+pa tients+heart&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&ie=UTF-8

[saywhat04]

Background check???? Jackson was only thinking about getting his drugs anyway he could.:biggrin:

imo

I agree. Just wanted to make the point (again) that MJ didn't walk into his arrangement with Murray as the innocent victim some would like to paint him to be. His eyes were wide open to the kind of "treatment" Murray would provide, imo. He took a huge gamble on Murray, and he lost.

[saywhat04]

At least Michael didn't make a living negligently killing people.

Today, TMZ published an exclusive which cites a Nevada coroner’s report claiming that in 2007, Jackson’s now famous doctor, cardiologist Conrad Murray (who had offices in Texas and Nevada) mistakenly punctured the heart of a 67-year-old Las Vegas man during a procedure—and that the medical misstep was a cause in the man’s death. But because the case (like all medical malpractice cases) would have been so extremely expensive to pursue, the family never filed suit. Consequently, we’ll never know if this case may have been enough to raise red flags for future patients like Michael Jackson.

http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:YTw4yj0bItUJ:www.thepoptort.com/2009/07/michael-jacksons-doctor-and-socalled-tort-reform-.html+dr.+conrad+murray+cardiologist,+punctured+pa tients+heart&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&ie=UTF-8

Look how easily you're finding all this background on Murray. Why didn't Jackson do his homework on this guy, I wonder?

[daniel green]

HOUSTON — Dr. Conrad Murray, who became famous for treating Michael Jackson just before the star’s death, has been sued more than a dozen times for claims including breach of contract and unpaid child support. Yet he has never been sued for malpractice. The court record highlights two often-contradictory sides of the man at the center of the controversy over Mr. Jackson’s death from an overdose of sedatives. To many of his patients, he is an affable and sympathetic physician, who took extra time with them and found effective therapies when others had given up. At the same time, he led a stormy and at times racy personal life, playing fast and loose with his obligations and leaving behind a trail of unpaid bills and unwed mothers. “It’s almost as if when I read the paper, I’m reading about another doctor,” said Michael Goyer, a retired city manager who was treated for heart disease by Dr. Murray in Las Vegas. “I thought he was beyond excellent.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/us/27murray.html

Interesting. So, his g/f had visited MJ's several times in 2007.

[daniel green]

And here is how MJ and Dr M met:

Dr. Murray met Mr. Jackson in 2006, when the singer’s daughter, Paris, became ill on a trip with Mr. Jackson to Las Vegas, Ms. Sevcik said. A member of the singer’s entourage knew Dr. Murray and called him in to treat her; he struck up a friendship with Mr. Jackson.

ibid

[saywhat04]

And here is how MJ and Dr M met:



ibid

Okay, so now I'm hoping the children weren't treated by Murray for long or for anything serious. Good gawd. :scared:

[sallemae]

Of course. Everyone wants to see if he is high on drugs. After all, the publicity of his death pushed sales. imo

My guess, in a year or two if it shows again, people will be wondering who he is. :biggrin:

It's always good to strike while the iron is hot to make the bucks.

JMO



The publicity of his death pushed sales of drugs? :huh:

[Firehead11]

It seems as though the Jacksons are falling out of public and media interest. I'll bet they don't like that. Even Geraldo says nothing more about Jackson.

I bet Dr Murray is back practicing at his offices. No reason not to. Since his patients loved him there won't be a shortage of patients to threat.
jmo

Freudian Slip?

[GentleBreeze]

Wow. Murray and Michael Jackson were 'two peas in a pod' when it comes to financial responsibility.

imo... of course.

I doubt that Murray will have enough continued money coming in or assets where his debts will be paid off and then some leftover.

imo