9/17 Pt. II, 9/18

[Babes]

I dont see this as an asian thing.... i think this is more of his stupid attitude and he wasnt able to control his anger IMO

[SavannahStar]

Thank you!

Whew I tried to post and got "sorry this thread is closed."

Well here we are, a new thread and new evening.

:smile:

[Babes]

Thank you!

Whew I tried to post and got "sorry this thread is closed."

Well here we are, a new thread and new evening.

:smile:


LOL i was looking for my post and here it comes.... I agree with your last post...

[Scampi]

AMS -
I think you are right scampi. In the pics I hav seen of him today at his arraignment and booking...he looks finished. He does not look like he is ready to put up a defense. Kind of empty. I would not be surpirsed if he was on suicide watch.

imo

Yes, he did look defeated and I'm sure the prison is erring on the side of caution to protect him and themselves from a civil suit should he attempt suicide. IMO

BTW,in the fullness of time I think we're going to learn that raymond treated men vastly differently then he did women, imo.

[SavannahStar]

LOL i was looking for my post and here it comes.... I agree with your last post...

Thanks. I think the idea that he "had a thing for Asian women" is pure rumor. I haven't seen anything at all that validates that.

I believe as you do: anger had more to do with it than anything.

[n/t]

His attorney quit and on HLN they speculated it was because of money issues. It will cost him a fortune to retain a private attorney.

I'd be interested to know about his family. His parents, siblings, etc. We know one sister worked at Yale.

[Babes]

Thanks. I think the idea that he "had a thing for Asian women" is pure rumor. I haven't seen anything at all that validates that.

I believe as you do: anger had more to do with it than anything.


Ived seen many lab pictures and lab members at Yale while researching this case and there are so many Asian in there --- but her GF is caucasian.... for his 4 years working there, he could have an asian GF or fling but he's with his GF for awhile now...ived seen their facebook and myspace pictures and they look happy just like Annie and her fiance.

[n/t]

AMS -
I think you are right scampi. In the pics I hav seen of him today at his arraignment and booking...he looks finished. He does not look like he is ready to put up a defense. Kind of empty. I would not be surpirsed if he was on suicide watch.

imo

Yes, he did look defeated and I'm sure the prison is erring on the side of caution to protect him and themselves from a civil suit should he attempt suicide. IMO

BTW,in the fullness of time I think we're going to learn that raymond treated men vastly differently then he did women, imo.

Interesting you bring that up. I wondered about his male friends. Did he have any? I could've missed it but alot of what's been coming out in the media is from his ex girlfriend, fiancee and neighbours. Where are his buddies?

[Babes]

His attorney quit and on HLN they speculated it was because of money issues. It will cost him a fortune to retain a private attorney.

I'd be interested to know about his family. His parents, siblings, etc. We know one sister worked at Yale.

I thought he is being represented by an attorney at public defender's office?

[aubrey04]

His attorney quit and on HLN they speculated it was because of money issues. It will cost him a fortune to retain a private attorney.

I'd be interested to know about his family. His parents, siblings, etc. We know one sister worked at Yale.

He has a public defender as an attorney now - a female, I believe. I forgot her name though.

[n/t]

Trust me, I know people who work in prisons. He's looking at the possibility of LWOP or the DP, so they'll have him on suicide watch for at least a couple weeks.

Do they have to prove premeditated to go for the DP?

[aproudmom]

AMS -
I think you are right scampi. In the pics I hav seen of him today at his arraignment and booking...he looks finished. He does not look like he is ready to put up a defense. Kind of empty. I would not be surpirsed if he was on suicide watch.

imo

Yes, he did look defeated and I'm sure the prison is erring on the side of caution to protect him and themselves from a civil suit should he attempt suicide. IMO

BTW,in the fullness of time I think we're going to learn that raymond treated men vastly differently then he did women, imo.

IIRC everyone is put on suicide watch for so many days it is just a common thing in cases like this or the ones I have followed anyway..

[n/t]

He has a public defender as an attorney now - a female, I believe. I forgot her name though.

Yup. I don't know her name either but I saw photos.

[StickyBeak]

HLN keeps quoting fiance myspace.

That is from a Bob Marley song, Lyrics:

Don't you look at me so smug
And say I goin' bad,
Who are you to judge me,
And the life I live?
I know that I'm not perfect
And that I don't claim to be,
So before you point your fingers,
Make sure your hands are clean.

Judge not,
Before you judge yourself!
Judge not,
If you're not ready for judgement! Oh-oh-oh!

The road of life is rocky,
And you may stumble too:
So while you talk about me,
Someone else is judging you

[imc_e]

I'm so glad that they have him in jail now.

He has ruined so many lives, including his family and fiance who will not likely be able to work there anymore.

I don't think much of Yale distancing themselves from their own employee who committed this murder right on University grounds, in their own building.

It is a University murder, by a University employee.

[n/t]

I thought he is being represented by an attorney at public defender's office?

I was talking about the other attorney he had...sorry don't recall his name. A public defender is not paid by the defendent, correct? It comes from tax payers?

[Ice Cycle]

I thought he is being represented by an attorney at public defender's office?

Well they can't quit I don't think, I would imagine the Attorney's would be lining up to take this one.

[Babes]

I was talking about the other attorney he had...sorry don't recall his name. A public defender is not paid by the defendent, correct? It comes from tax payers?

Right...they dont pay them a cent.

[psbperu]

Well I don't know the real deal but I am probably alone on this board in thinking that he was obsessed with her & coveted her no matter that he had a fiance & a questionable marriage date well into 2011.

I believe he was rebuffed & the situation escalated from that point on.

Just my opinion & pure speculation on my part & perhaps far from the real truth.

[Babes]

Well they can't quit I don't think, I would imagine the Attorney's would be lining up to take this one.

Maybe the first attorney told him that it is better if you get a woman to represent you so you can get more sympathy..... and may get lesser penalty..

[forensicpsy~]

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/annie_le_suspec.php

"Annie Le Suspect Knew Cops Were on His Tail"

"A day after playing softball in New Haven and attending the Hebron Fair, the suspect in the murder of a Yale graduate student noticed seven cops following him around. They wanted him to."

Full article at link.

[Tacori]

NEW HAVEN, Conn. — "As police charged a Yale animal lab technician with murdering a graduate student who worked in his building, a portrait began to emerge Thursday of an unpleasant stickler for the rules who often clashed with researchers and considered the mice cages his personal fiefdom.

..Clark appeared in court with two public defenders who were new to the case. A private-practice attorney who had represented him during the investigation did not attend the hearing and said Thursday he no longer represents Clark. The attorney declined to give a reason."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9APAMN81

[Babes]

Well I don't know the real deal but I am probably alone on this board in thinking that he was obsessed with her & coveted her no matter that he had a fiance & a questionable marriage date well into 2011.

I believe he was rebuffed & the situation escalated from that point on.

Just my opinion & pure speculation on my part & perhaps far from the real truth.


I would think that if an obsession exist - then this crime is going to be more planned ...IMO.

[aubrey04]

Yup. I don't know her name either but I saw photos.

Her name is Beth Merkin.. I just looked it up.. Assistant Public Defender Joseph E. Lopez and Senior Assistant Public Defender Beth Merkin are his lawyers.

http://www.mercurynews.com/california/ci_13356136?nclick_check=1

[Babes]

A difference exists between public defenders who the government pays and pro bono lawyers who are assigned the case without pay.

Right. RC doesnt have to pay these public defender's attorney... I didnt hear he has a pro bono lawyers.

[Babes]

I don't know what he has.

public defender

[SavannahStar]

NEW HAVEN, Conn. — "As police charged a Yale animal lab technician with murdering a graduate student who worked in his building, a portrait began to emerge Thursday of an unpleasant stickler for the rules who often clashed with researchers and considered the mice cages his personal fiefdom.

..Clark appeared in court with two public defenders who were new to the case. A private-practice attorney who had represented him during the investigation did not attend the hearing and said Thursday he no longer represents Clark. The attorney declined to give a reason."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9APAMN81

BBM. Interesting. Sounds more and more like workplace violence (or "workplace crime") to me, just as was stated in one of the PCs.

[5swab5]

NEW HAVEN, Conn. — "As police charged a Yale animal lab technician with murdering a graduate student who worked in his building, a portrait began to emerge Thursday of an unpleasant stickler for the rules who often clashed with researchers and considered the mice cages his personal fiefdom.

..Clark appeared in court with two public defenders who were new to the case. A private-practice attorney who had represented him during the investigation did not attend the hearing and said Thursday he no longer represents Clark. The attorney declined to give a reason."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9APAMN81

:seeya:

Le's work involved experiments on mice that were part of research into enzymes that could have implications for treatment of cancer, diabetes and muscular dystrophy.

Thanks for the link. We will never know what all Annie might have accomplished. :crying:

[lune3]

NEW HAVEN, Conn. — "As police charged a Yale animal lab technician with murdering a graduate student who worked in his building, a portrait began to emerge Thursday of an unpleasant stickler for the rules who often clashed with researchers and considered the mice cages his personal fiefdom.

..Clark appeared in court with two public defenders who were new to the case. A private-practice attorney who had represented him during the investigation did not attend the hearing and said Thursday he no longer represents Clark. The attorney declined to give a reason."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9APAMN81

So it's coworkers who told LE that the guy is a protocol stickler regarding the mice and their environment. Since it's he who was responsible for cleaning the floors, could be that it was more a matter of annoyance at extra work than regard for the animals. Maybe not.

In any case, this is the first time I read where the "rumour" came from, ....now finally the info appears credible. Could be I missed other reports though.

Whether the confrontation resulted from this issue, we don't know yet, other than that the emails hint at it and that LE specifies the crime as "workplace violence"

[n/t]

Well I don't know the real deal but I am probably alone on this board in thinking that he was obsessed with her & coveted her no matter that he had a fiance & a questionable marriage date well into 2011.

I believe he was rebuffed & the situation escalated from that point on.

Just my opinion & pure speculation on my part & perhaps far from the real truth.

No you're not alone. There are others who think it was as you described. As a matter of fact, even the reporter on HLN said it's anyone's guess at this point.

We just don't know and people will provide theories, opinions, speculations....

Some believe it's the rage, control, power and others think it was lust, obsession.

[KatieLady]

Just heard on my local news (CA) that the texts and emails have been released...have we seen them?

[n/t]

Maybe "Ray Ray" (Raymond Clark III) never grew up? :mellow:

Wow. "Workplace / job security" was 3rd on my list after "Obsession gone wrong" and "Professional/cultural/gender jealousy".

Are you considering putting workplace/job security as #1? :wink:

[SavannahStar]

So it's coworkers who told LE that the guy is a protocol stickler regarding the mice and their environment. Since it's he who was responsible for cleaning the floors, could be that it was more a matter of annoyance at extra work than regard for the animals. Maybe not.

In any case, this is the first time I read where the "rumour" came from, ....now finally the info appears credible. Could be I missed other reports though.

Whether the confrontation resulted from this issue, we don't know yet, other than that the emails hint at it and that LE specifies the crime as "workplace violence"


I'm not sure he was responsible for cleaning the floors. I do know one report said "maintenance" stuff and somehow the "janitor" description stuck. But, he is still called a "lab technician" in all the articles I've read. I've read he is in charge of caretaking the mice and the cages. Maybe a true custodian in the buildings cleans the floors. I dunno. But I do not think he is a "janitor" by any stretch.

[lune3]

No you're not alone. There are others who think it was as you described. As a matter of fact, even the reporter on HLN said it's anyone's guess at this point.

We just don't know and people will provide theories, opinions, speculations....

Some believe it's the rage, control, power and others think it was lust, obsession.

Could be a combination of the two to some extent. I lean towards the former imo. However Lewis himself stated that they do not have tunnel vision and that on examining the evidence, it's possible other things may unfold. Wise approach.

[Scampi]

Well I don't know the real deal but I am probably alone on this board in thinking that he was obsessed with her & coveted her no matter that he had a fiance & a questionable marriage date well into 2011.

I believe he was rebuffed & the situation escalated from that point on.

Just my opinion & pure speculation on my part & perhaps far from the real truth.

I'm with you. This incident in highschool, where he trashed his girlfriend's locker, to the extent that the police were called and he was ordered to stay away from her, all because she said their relationship was over is very disturbing.

This woman said she was still very much afraid of him, so much so that she and her Mother went to the police station and she reported that even tho they had had an intimate relationship, he did force her to have sex against her will. At that time she did not want to file formal charges.

There is a news outlet following up on this story and they reported today that the police officer went to raymond's parents and had a talk with them about what was reported to him. I apologize for not having a link to this, but surely we will see more of his prior problems in the days ahead.

IMO, his parents are well aware of raymond's anger and control issues, this didn't just happen over night.

[n/t]

Here's the AP article. It's the second story at the link. He was a baseball & football player in high school.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hitISYixOv_DC0ABZeYzc6dg2BDAD9APBCAG0

[forensicpsy~]

Just heard on my local news (CA) that the texts and emails have been released...have we seen them?

Yes. Sorry but you missed them. :biggrin:

[lune3]

I'm not sure he was responsible for cleaning the floors. I do know one report said "maintenance" stuff and somehow the "janitor" description stuck. But, he is still called a "lab technician" in all the articles I've read. I've read he is in charge of caretaking the mice and the cages. Maybe a true custodian in the buildings cleans the floors. I dunno. But I do not think he is a "janitor" by any stretch.

"As a technician, Clark's duties included cleaning mouse cages and the floors of the lab."

Maybe you're right. We don't really know who offered this info for this in the article.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9APAMN81

[n/t]

Just heard on my local news (CA) that the texts and emails have been released...have we seen them?

I haven't seen them Katie.

[n/t]

Yes. Sorry but you missed them. :biggrin:

:lol: .....

[Survivor]

SNIPPED & BBM

Some evidence does exist from studies that shows kids who grow up as Juniors or III's, IV's etc can suffer personality problems, and that the percentage rate of Juniors end up in jail/prison is significantly higher than those in society.

I mean, this 24yo man's nickname is "RayRay"; that tells me something. I don't mean anyone needs to have a "bleeding heart" for this guy.

When I was young, I had a nickname like, let us say, "Sammy" because my Dad was "Samuel". By the time I got to 8, I started asking to be called "Sam". No cooperation from the family. Finally at 12, I put my foot down and pretty much demanded to be called "Sam" and my family finally relented.
BBM

Once again Scienter....link please

[n/t]

I work in the industry. He's an animal tech. They feed and care for the animals, including cleaning cages and the room. It's a strictly controlled room, not for janitors. They may perform injections, take blood sample, and even operate and remove organs. There are strict protocols to follow. Some animal techs are certified.

It doesn't sound like he was what you describe. I don't recall what the Chief's exact words were but it sounded like his job didn't include injections, blood sampling and even operations.

It was more a "janitorial" type of position.

[lune3]

I work in the industry. He's an animal tech. They feed and care for the animals, including cleaning cages and the room. It's a strictly controlled room, not for janitors. They may perform injections, take blood sample, and even operate and remove organs. There are strict protocols to follow. Some animal techs are certified.

You've raised a good point. I can see where janitors would not be doing the cleaning in a controlled environment. Now that I remember, when my daughter was conducting research in a marine bio lab, all the cleaning etc was done by specialized staff.

[KatieLady]

Yes. Sorry but you missed them. :biggrin:

Oh drat! :scared:

Looks like Calif got it wrong again LOL

[Babes]

It doesn't sound like he was what you describe. I don't recall what the Chief's exact words were but it sounded like his job didn't include injections, blood sampling and even operations.

It was more a "janitorial" type of position.


As a technician, Clark's duties included cleaning mouse cages and the floors of the lab.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9APB8LO0

[achristie]

Thanks. I think the idea that he "had a thing for Asian women" is pure rumor. I haven't seen anything at all that validates that.

I believe as you do: anger had more to do with it than anything.

Me too. Anger fueled by feeling inferior.

MOO Aggie

[aubrey04]

Well reading that last article which discussed how he was a real stickler on the rules and he'd become upset if people didn't wear the shoe booties --- cements my theory from yesterday that he possibly was a real anal-type person/OCD-type who freaked out when the slightest thing was amiss (at least in his eyes)... These types are usually nothing more than annoying, but if they have a rage/violent temper.. they can become very dangerous.

The picture of "Ray Ray" that seems to be developing is that he was a controlling, stickler, type-A personality with a bad temper.

imo

Sadly for Mr. Ray Ray.. prison won't be an environment where he can control much.. He will be the one who will be controlled all day - every day.

[AMS]

Here's the AP article. It's the second story at the link. He was a baseball & football player in high school.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hitISYixOv_DC0ABZeYzc6dg2BDAD9APBCAG0

Just heard on JVM hat he was a member of he "Asian awareness" club in high school. Hmmm...


imo

[Leanne Weich]

He has a public defender as an attorney now - a female, I believe. I forgot her name though.He had 2 PDs prior to his arrest. When someone from the SA's office was asked about it he said it is not unusual in circumstances like this.

[SavannahStar]

As a technician, Clark's duties included cleaning mouse cages and the floors of the lab.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9APB8LO0

But what other duties? Seems I recall reading something like caring for the mice, in general.

[aproudmom]

This link makes it sound like he owned the building...maybe his other lawyer felt he was to controlling..JMO

As police charged a Yale animal lab technician with murdering a graduate student who worked in his building, a portrait began to emerge Thursday of an unpleasant stickler for the rules who often clashed with researchers and considered the mice cages his personal fiefdom.

Clark appeared in court with two public defenders who were new to the case. A private-practice attorney who had represented him during the investigation did not attend the hearing and said Thursday he no longer represents Clark. The attorney declined to give a reason.

Co-workers told police that Clark was a "control freak" who viewed the laboratory and its mice as his territory, according to a law enforcement official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing and many details remain sealed
http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/798806.html

[SavannahStar]

It doesn't sound like he was what you describe. I don't recall what the Chief's exact words were but it sounded like his job didn't include injections, blood sampling and even operations.

It was more a "janitorial" type of position.

I do know animal techs that work in boarding kennels, feeding them, monitoring them and cleaning the area, etc., are not called or hired as "janitors."

[AnniePie]

Yes. Sorry but you missed them. :biggrin:

:laugh: Funny!

[lune3]

But what other duties? Seems I recall reading something like caring for the mice, in general.
I recall that too. The quote has the word "included" so I think we can assume there were other responsibilities.

[FrankieBones1]

Anyone watching Jane Valez Mitchell tonight? A guest or caller brought up an interesting issue and that is why did Annie and Clarke have each others' cell phone numbers?

They are also calling him a janitor.

[FrankieBones1]

It doesn't sound like he was what you describe. I don't recall what the Chief's exact words were but it sounded like his job didn't include injections, blood sampling and even operations.

It was more a "janitorial" type of position.

All I've heard so far is that he cleaned mice cages.

[n/t]

Anyone watching Jane Valez Mitchell tonight? A guest or caller brought up an interesting issue and that is why did Annie and Clarke have each others' cell phone numbers?

They are also calling him a janitor.

Did anyone from the panel answer the question? Sorry..I don't have access to a tv.

My guess would be because they "worked" together per se, it was probably necessary. I have many of my coworkers cell phone numbers.

[AMS]

Anyone watching Jane Valez Mitchell tonight? A guest or caller brought up an interesting issue and that is why did Annie and Clarke have each others' cell phone numbers?

They are also calling him a janitor.

I heard that. I worked in a lab in a past life and if you had experiments going you were required to leave your phone number in case there was a problem on off-hours and you had to be contacted. May be why he had her #. Don't know why she would have his #. Just a thought...

imo

[n/t]

All I've heard so far is that he cleaned mice cages.

Me too. I haven't heard anything about his duties involving blood sampling, operations, etc.

[SavannahStar]

Anyone watching Jane Valez Mitchell tonight? A guest or caller brought up an interesting issue and that is why did Annie and Clarke have each others' cell phone numbers?

They are also calling him a janitor.

We had a good discussion on that this afternoon on here, Frankie. It seems like the consensus was (I'm sure there were some who disagreed) that it was not unusual to have the #s of the workers in the lab, and the people who used the lab. Also talked about text between the two. You know, many people now don't even have landlines anymore. I'd think especially younger people. And it would not be unusual for these two to have issues to talk about.

It doesn't surprise me that JVM and anyone on her show would call him a janitor. I think NG started that trend. His ex-employer stated he was a lab technician.

Well even doctors/lawyers/etc. and the most educated people on the planet commit heinous crimes. Calling him a janitor when that was not his title is unnecessarily demeaning. What he did to Annie is awful enough, assuming he is guilty of this crime.

[Casecase]

Yale's website lists his job title as "Animal Technician", but it doesn't say which classification. They have 5 different classifications of Animal Technician, each with varying degrees of duties and responsibilities.

Lowest level: http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/A_animal_tech_i.html

Highest level:
http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/job_template.html



IMO

[n/t]

I do know animal techs that work in boarding kennels, feeding them, monitoring them and cleaning the area, etc., are not called or hired as "janitors."

It could be that other animal techs have other responsibilities and duties. I don't know. All I'm saying is the way his job was described, it did not include any of the things mentioned by scienter.

[BOZGAL2]

Anyone watching Jane Valez Mitchell tonight? A guest or caller brought up an interesting issue and that is why did Annie and Clarke have each others' cell phone numbers?

They are also calling him a janitor.

NK
My ears perked up on that one too.

[SavannahStar]

Yale's website lists his job title as "Animal Technician", but it doesn't say which classification. They have 5 different classifications of Animal Technician, each with varying degrees of duties and responsibilities.

Lowest level: http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/A_animal_tech_i.html

Highest level:
http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/job_template.html



IMO

Thank you for those.

[n/t]

We had a good discussion on that this afternoon on here, Frankie. It seems like the consensus was (I'm sure there were some who disagreed) that it was not unusual to have the #s of the workers in the lab, and the people who used the lab. Also talked about text between the two. You know, many people now don't even have landlines anymore. I'd think especially younger people. And it would not be unusual for these two to have issues to talk about.

It doesn't surprise me that JVM and anyone on her show would call him a janitor. I think NG started that trend. His ex-employer stated he was a lab technician.

Well even doctors/lawyers/etc. and the most educated people on the planet commit heinous crimes. Calling him a janitor when that was not his title is unnecessarily demeaning. What he did to Annie is awful enough, assuming he is guilty of this crime.

Why is calling him a janitor demeaning?:confused:

[gordon24fan]

Got to say thank you all because i get to keep up to date with this case. i dont have time to google all this info...hmmm but then again i have the time to go through all of you 25 and more pages of post, i guess its more interesting to get all your inputs. :thumbsup:

[n/t]

Yale's website lists his job title as "Animal Technician", but it doesn't say which classification. They have 5 different classifications of Animal Technician, each with varying degrees of duties and responsibilities.

Lowest level: http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/A_animal_tech_i.html

Highest level:
http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/job_template.html



IMO


From what we've heard so far, I think he was in the lowest level of responsibilities category.

[SavannahStar]

Why is calling him a janitor demeaning?:confused:

It's all in the context......as in "JUST a janitor" (paraphrased; I HAVE seen that on here)....compared to what Annie was. And most definitely NG says it in a demeaning manner. IMO. But, in and of itself, nothing at all wrong with being a janitor or a custodian. Of course not. My Dad, bless his heart, was one himself for many years with the Federal Government.

[Survivor]

Got to say thank you all because i get to keep up to date with this case. i dont have time to google all this info...hmmm but then again i have the time to go through all of you 25 and more pages of post, i guess its more interesting to get all your inputs. :thumbsup:

Welcome fellow Canuck! Links are supposed to be provided when stating "fact". If not a factual statement, an IMO (IN MY OPINION ONLY) should be stated. :thumbup:

[KittyMom]

http://www.connpost.com/ci_13360183

Would personal alarm device have saved Le?

"The majority of college campuses do not use this technology. However, we are seeing the number who do increase each year," says Jonathan Kassa, executive director of Security on Campus, Inc., a non-profit organization that represents the safety interests of students and their families at colleges. "It costs tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars for these [kind of] wireless security devices," Kassa says. "It's a small percentage of any college's overall budget." Yale has a $2.3 billion budget and a $17 billion endowment.

This is an interesting read.

[gordon24fan]

Welcome fellow Canuck! Links are supposed to be provided when stating "fact". If not a factual statement, an IMO (IN MY OPINION ONLY) should be stated. :thumbup:

Thanks i kind of got that hint while going tru the haleigh cummings board and this one this afternoon. i really enjoy reading this board, my boyfriend thinks im addicted to this board si try to come when he's not arround:thumbsup:

[5swab5]

From what we've heard so far, I think he was in the lowest level of responsibilities category.

If Clark hadn't made it past level one in four years, I can't see him being so meticulous or anal about the lab. Heck why worry about anything, time to change jobs. JMOPO

[KittyMom]

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_13359930?source=most_viewed

Herhold: Killing of Yale grad student Annie Le has parallels with a 35-year-old Stanford slaying

Another interesting read. I don't remember hearing of the Stanford case before.

[Ice Cycle]

To those that don't know and I did post this once before.
Lab Technician - 2 years of college - Do testing
Lab Technologist- 4 years of college- Do Higher Testing

Kind of like the difference in a LPN nurse and a RN nurse.

It appears that Animal Tech are either certified or registered but college is not needed. See below.




AALAS' Certification and Registry Board (CRB) certifies three levels of technician competence:

Assistant Laboratory Animal Technician (ALAT)
Laboratory Animal Technician (LAT)
Laboratory Animal Technologist (LATG)
The technician certification designations of ALAT, LAT, and LATG are well known and widely used throughout the varied fields of laboratory animal care. In fact, these certifications have come to be a common requirement for a lab animal care position.

Below is a general overview of the technician certification process. For complete program information, download the Technician Certification Handbookhttp://www.aalas.org/images/pdf_sm.gif (http://www.aalas.org/pdf/Tech_Cert_handbook.pdf). The handbook contains everything you need to know about application and testing procedures, qualification criteria, exam fees, and many other topics, and should be retained for use as a reference during the application process.
http://www.aalas.org/images/top.jpg (http://www.aalas.org/certification/tech_cert.asp#Tech)

Education and Work Experience RequirementsALATNo high school diploma or GED +2 years laboratory animal science experienceHS diploma or GED +1 year laboratory animal science experienceAny college degree of 2 or more years duration+0.5 year laboratory animal science experienceLATHS diploma or GED +3 years laboratory animal science experienceAny AA/AS degree +2 years laboratory animal science experienceAny BA/BS or higher degree+1 year laboratory animal science experienceALAT certification plus HS diploma/GED, or college or higher degree +0.5 year after receiving ALAT certification ALAT certification without HS diploma/GED, or any college degree +2 years after receiving ALAT certification LATGHS diploma or GED +5 years laboratory animal science experienceAny AA/AS degree +4 years laboratory animal science experienceAny BA/BS or higher degree+3 years laboratory animal science experienceLAT certification plus HS diploma or GED, or college or higher degree+0.5 year after receiving LAT certification
A year's worth of work experience is equivalent to 1950 hours. The CRB allows for experience in non-laboratory animal environment (up to 3 years) to be applied to the required work experience using the following equation.

http://www.aalas.org/certification/tech_cert.asp

[KittyMom]

http://www.legacy.com/gb2/default.aspx?bookid=5575000400871&cid=full

Guest Book at legacy.com for Annie Le

[Survivor]

Thanks i kind of got that hint while going tru the haleigh cummings board and this one this afternoon. i really enjoy reading this board, my boyfriend thinks im addicted to this board si try to come when he's not arround:thumbsup:

I hear ya! My daughter thinks I'm nuts following true crime, but like you, addiction runs deep. :thumbup: At least this "addiction" is a heck of alot cheaper than some I could choose!:thumbup:

[aubrey04]

I don't think he was a "janitor". He was an animal tech. That's what LE calls him and most media sites refer to him as. NG and a few others have called him a "janitor", but I don't believe that's accurate.

He took care of the mice and cleaned that area.. so I guess one could surmise it is a janitorial-type position, but still.. I believe his position was a little more detailed/sensitive than a building custodian, since he was dealing with mice that were used for scientific studies.

I think the fact that he was dealing with these research animals that were used in studies made his duties slightly more important as far as following protocol and sanitation procedures..

..and that's why I think his involvement with Annie & the fact that he had her phone # - not surprising in the least.

jmo, of course

[aproudmom]

He had 2 PDs prior to his arrest. When someone from the SA's office was asked about it he said it is not unusual in circumstances like this.

He had a lawyer but it was not a PD but for some reason he is not taking the case and will not comment on why...so he had 1 lawyer prior to his arrest which was a private attorney so guessing he had to pay for that one.. once arrested these 2 PD were in court...I posted the link up thread

[gordon24fan]

I hear ya! My daughter thinks I'm nuts following true crime, but like you, addiction runs deep. :thumbup: At least this "addiction" is a heck of alot cheaper than some I could choose!:thumbup:

for sure, i fell upon this site while google haleigh cumming back in march and been reading every day ever since, i dont post much but really enjoy everyone's input on cases. i have to do it most from work cuz the b\f would be calling me crazy and morbid for following these cases

[5swab5]

To those that don't know and I did post this once before.
Lab Technician - 2 years of college - Do testing
Lab Technologist- 4 years of college- Do Higher Testing

Kind of like the difference in a LPN nurse and a RN nurse.

It appears that Animal Tech are either certified or registered but college is not needed. See below.




AALAS' Certification and Registry Board (CRB) certifies three levels of technician competence:

Assistant Laboratory Animal Technician (ALAT)
Laboratory Animal Technician (LAT)
Laboratory Animal Technologist (LATG)
The technician certification designations of ALAT, LAT, and LATG are well known and widely used throughout the varied fields of laboratory animal care. In fact, these certifications have come to be a common requirement for a lab animal care position.

Below is a general overview of the technician certification process. For complete program information, download the Technician Certification Handbookhttp://www.aalas.org/images/pdf_sm.gif (http://www.aalas.org/pdf/Tech_Cert_handbook.pdf). The handbook contains everything you need to know about application and testing procedures, qualification criteria, exam fees, and many other topics, and should be retained for use as a reference during the application process.
http://www.aalas.org/images/top.jpg (http://www.aalas.org/certification/tech_cert.asp#Tech)

Education and Work Experience RequirementsALATNo high school diploma or GED +2 years laboratory animal science experienceHS diploma or GED +1 year laboratory animal science experienceAny college degree of 2 or more years duration+0.5 year laboratory animal science experienceLATHS diploma or GED +3 years laboratory animal science experienceAny AA/AS degree +2 years laboratory animal science experienceAny BA/BS or higher degree+1 year laboratory animal science experienceALAT certification plus HS diploma/GED, or college or higher degree +0.5 year after receiving ALAT certification ALAT certification without HS diploma/GED, or any college degree +2 years after receiving ALAT certification LATGHS diploma or GED +5 years laboratory animal science experienceAny AA/AS degree +4 years laboratory animal science experienceAny BA/BS or higher degree+3 years laboratory animal science experienceLAT certification plus HS diploma or GED, or college or higher degree+0.5 year after receiving LAT certification
A year's worth of work experience is equivalent to 1950 hours. The CRB allows for experience in non-laboratory animal environment (up to 3 years) to be applied to the required work experience using the following equation.

http://www.aalas.org/certification/tech_cert.asp

Thank you!

Sooooo, If he didn't get in any trouble, he might have been up for a promotion to LATG in a year or so. Assuming of course, that he had been progressing all along?

[KittyMom]

Someone posted the atty's name earlier. He is representing one of the perps in the Petit family murders.

Hold the press....

http://www.middletownpress.com/articles/2009/09/16/news/doc4ab1406d22fcf985520966.txt

New Haven Public Defender Thomas J. Ullmann declined comment but did say that it is not unprecedented for his office to provide pre-arrest assistance.



Ullmann is the one defending of the Petit perps.

I confess, I never knew that the public defenders office could assist BEFORE an arrest.

[aproudmom]

He has a public defender as an attorney now - a female, I believe. I forgot her name though.

As police charged a Yale animal lab technician with murdering a graduate student who worked in his building, a portrait began to emerge Thursday of an unpleasant stickler for the rules who often clashed with researchers and considered the mice cages his personal fiefdom.

Clark appeared in court with two public defenders who were new to the case. A private-practice attorney who had represented him during the investigation did not attend the hearing and said Thursday he no longer represents Clark. The attorney declined to give a reason.
Co-workers told police that Clark was a "control freak" who viewed the laboratory and its mice as his territory, according to a law enforcement official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing and many details remain sealed
http://www.buffalonews.com/260/story/798806.html


Assistant Public Defender Joseph E. Lopez,
Senior Assistant Public Defender Beth Merkin

[SKARDYKAT]

Thanks to you above for the technical information. I have about had it with JVM putting down custodians. The panel included. They stated this tech was a "nothing" and jealous of the Yale doctorals who would be elite. I found that all of her panel, along with her, look down on the employees that make a place run. How uppity can you get? Eek, and I have a degree.

[crimeq]

His attorney quit and on HLN they speculated it was because of money issues. It will cost him a fortune to retain a private attorney.

I'd be interested to know about his family. His parents, siblings, etc. We know one sister worked at Yale.

I thought public defenders were paid by the state (or county)? Not so?

[Mr. Moto2]

It's all in the context......as in "JUST a janitor" (paraphrased; I HAVE seen that on here)....compared to what Annie was. And most definitely NG says it in a demeaning manner. IMO. But, in and of itself, nothing at all wrong with being a janitor or a custodian. Of course not. My Dad, bless his heart, was one himself for many years with the Federal Government.

Yes, and this is just one of the many reasons why "sweet" Nancy Grace leaves a sour taste in my mouth!

[crimeq]

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/09/annie_le_suspec.php

"Annie Le Suspect Knew Cops Were on His Tail"

"A day after playing softball in New Haven and attending the Hebron Fair, the suspect in the murder of a Yale graduate student noticed seven cops following him around. They wanted him to."

Full article at link.

But didn't start following him 'til Saturday, which surprised me.

ETA -- do we know when he was given the lie detector test?

[crimeq]

NEW HAVEN, Conn. — "As police charged a Yale animal lab technician with murdering a graduate student who worked in his building, a portrait began to emerge Thursday of an unpleasant stickler for the rules who often clashed with researchers and considered the mice cages his personal fiefdom.

..Clark appeared in court with two public defenders who were new to the case. A private-practice attorney who had represented him during the investigation did not attend the hearing and said Thursday he no longer represents Clark. The attorney declined to give a reason."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9APAMN81

ah, OK, so the reason is financial. It makes sense now.

[Tacori]

Someone posted the atty's name earlier. He is representing one of the perps in the Petit family murders.

Hold the press....

http://www.middletownpress.com/articles/2009/09/16/news/doc4ab1406d22fcf985520966.txt



Ullmann is the one defending of the Petit perps.

I confess, I never knew that the public defenders office could assist BEFORE an arrest.

Here's what I said...:smile:

"As an aside - Thomas Ullman is defending one of the monsters that killed the Petit family.
=============================================
"Two New Haven public defenders, Joe Lopez and Beth Merkin, are providing assistance.

New Haven Public Defender Thomas J. Ullmann declined comment but did say that it is not unprecedented for his office to provide pre-arrest assistance."

[Ice Cycle]

Thank you!

Sooooo, If he didn't get in any trouble, he might have been up for a promotion to LATG in a year or so. Assuming of course, that he had been progressing all along?

Right because evidently experience can be substituted for education to become registered.

I was thinking maybe NG would have the g/f on, I would like to here was she has to say about this. I bet she will be within the week.

[sunstar]

Hi all! I'm just getting news of what happened in court today, on Nancy's show, and see RC is at a maximum security prison. Is that how it's handled in CT? No county jails? :confused:

[Tacori]

ah, OK, so the reason is financial. It makes sense now.

That's what it sounds like, crimeq. The good state of CT is now footing the bill...

[crimeq]

NEW HAVEN, Conn. — "As police charged a Yale animal lab technician with murdering a graduate student who worked in his building, a portrait began to emerge Thursday of an unpleasant stickler for the rules who often clashed with researchers and considered the mice cages his personal fiefdom.

..Clark appeared in court with two public defenders who were new to the case. A private-practice attorney who had represented him during the investigation did not attend the hearing and said Thursday he no longer represents Clark. The attorney declined to give a reason."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9APAMN81

Tacori, this would be good to post in the Links area if you haven't already done so.

Also, on Part 1 for day, someone posted a link to an article that was an interview with one of the people he worked with at the lab, apparently talking about what a good guy he was (I didn't have time to read the article because I had to leave for an appt.). That would also be good to post in the Links area -- I don't remember who posted the link in Part 1 though :-(

[Tacori]

:seeya:

Le's work involved experiments on mice that were part of research into enzymes that could have implications for treatment of cancer, diabetes and muscular dystrophy.

Thanks for the link. We will never know what all Annie might have accomplished. :crying:

YW! I left that very important part out. My bad. Thanks so much for highlighting that!

[KittyMom]

Here's what I said...:smile:

"As an aside - Thomas Ullman is defending one of the monsters that killed the Petit family.
=============================================
"Two New Haven public defenders, Joe Lopez and Beth Merkin, are providing assistance.

New Haven Public Defender Thomas J. Ullmann declined comment but did say that it is not unprecedented for his office to provide pre-arrest assistance."

:thumbup: I knew I'd read it here.

Have you ever heard of the pd office assisting before an arrest?

[Ninja108]

If all janitors and "little people" took a couple of days off, JVM and a couple of the others wouldn't be talking about them the way they have.
On another note, prison is a stickler for rules, Clark will fit right in there!

[Casspian]

A difference exists between public defenders who the government pays and pro bono lawyers who are assigned the case without pay.

I don't believe a lawyer working pro bono is ever called a Public Defender

[Leanne Weich]

He had a lawyer but it was not a PD but for some reason he is not taking the case and will not comment on why...so he had 1 lawyer prior to his arrest which was a private attorney so guessing he had to pay for that one.. once arrested these 2 PD were in court...I posted the link up thread

I definitely read an article which named the 2 PDS who, aacording to the SA's office, were assisting him despite him having his own attorney. I looked for the link but my DH had alreay cleared the computer history and I am not too good at googling. I dare say someone else will recall seeing it.

[Tacori]

Tacori, this would be good to post in the Links area if you haven't already done so.

Also, on Part 1 for day, someone posted a link to an article that was an interview with one of the people he worked with at the lab, apparently talking about what a good guy he was (I didn't have time to read the article because I had to leave for an appt.). That would also be good to post in the Links area -- I don't remember who posted the link in Part 1 though :-(

Done. Thanks for reminding me!

[crimeq]

"As a technician, Clark's duties included cleaning mouse cages and the floors of the lab."

Maybe you're right. We don't really know who offered this info for this in the article.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9APAMN81

It would be interesting to see his actual job description at Yale. Someone (??) posted they had researched Yale positions and found several different levels of Lab Tech, I, II, III, III etc. and we don't know what level he was--but probably higher than I, after working there for four years.

Whoever posted that: could you post a link? I wonder how much information is given about duties for each level.

They are going to make Clark the lowest of the low now though, compared to Annie being highest of the high.

[lune3]

http://www.legacy.com/gb2/default.aspx?bookid=5575000400871&cid=full

Guest Book at legacy.com for Annie Le

Thank you for this.

I'm not sure how it works...I made an entry, submitted it but it doesn't show. Entries are still numbered at 287 when I imagine others have participated since I submitted mine......do you know if generally the entries are delayed or included in bunches?

[crimeq]

I work in the industry. He's an animal tech. They feed and care for the animals, including cleaning cages and the room. It's a strictly controlled room, not for janitors. They may perform injections, take blood sample, and even operate and remove organs. There are strict protocols to follow. Some animal techs are certified.

Scienter, thanks for this info--I know you've presented it before and I appreciate your input on the board :wink:

Do you have any ideas about what various levels of animal techs would be--entry level vs. Level 3 or 4, for example?

The media is going to make him out to be a lowly janitor from this point forward, though--IMO.

[Leanne Weich]

Someone posted the atty's name earlier. He is representing one of the perps in the Petit family murders.

Hold the press....

http://www.middletownpress.com/articles/2009/09/16/news/doc4ab1406d22fcf985520966.txt



Ullmann is the one defending of the Petit perps.

I confess, I never knew that the public defenders office could assist BEFORE an arrest.

A Proudmom

Here it is. I knew I read it.

[crimeq]

SNIPPED & BBM

Some evidence does exist from studies that shows kids who grow up as Juniors or III's, IV's etc can suffer personality problems, and that the percentage rate of Juniors end up in jail/prison is significantly higher than those in society.

I mean, this 24yo man's nickname is "RayRay"; that tells me something. I don't mean anyone needs to have a "bleeding heart" for this guy.

When I was young, I had a nickname like, let us say, "Sammy" because my Dad was "Samuel". By the time I got to 8, I started asking to be called "Sam". No cooperation from the family. Finally at 12, I put my foot down and pretty much demanded to be called "Sam" and my family finally relented.

BBM

Think of the number of Jrs., IIs, IIIs, and IVs actually end up as students at Yale, though :tonguewag:

[sunstar]

I'm confused about him having "issues" with Annie over the lab animals. He's been there 4 yrs., at the same job, and what I'd like to know is if he's ever had the same issues with other students doing the same research/experiments as Annie? Why all of a sudden would he have problems now, 4 yrs. into the job? I'm thinking maybe he really didn't care at all about the animals, how clean the cages were, and actually resented the fact that he had to clean up after students ~ maybe especially Annie? I don't think the only motive is the lab animals, but I do believe he had a hatred/resentment for Annie. MOO

[aproudmom]

well have a great night I am going to watch Survivor and some family time they say I am addicted to this..lol..have a GREAT EVENING EVERYONE:seeya:

[crimeq]

It doesn't sound like he was what you describe. I don't recall what the Chief's exact words were but it sounded like his job didn't include injections, blood sampling and even operations.

It was more a "janitorial" type of position.

I think that's what we'll hear about him from now on, but I believe he had animal tech responsibilities such as Scienter described. I don't think the janitor would have Annie's cell phone number, nor would someone whose only job was to clean the cages and floors.

It's unlikely a janitor is in such highly secured areas unsupervised, anyway--most likely the work is done by a supervised team. Obviously Clark had the run of the lab, unsupervised.

[Tacori]

:thumbup: I knew I'd read it here.

Have you ever heard of the pd office assisting before an arrest?

No, can't say that I have.

I'm sure his first private attorney knew from the time that they first interviewed him, he flunked the poly and were photographing his body that he was in trouble. I also think he knew that RC couldn't afford his services and perhaps contacted the PD's office himself...jmo

[Casspian]

I'm sorry, but law enforcement officials should not anonymously be releasing details like this - "Co-workers told police that Clark was a "control freak" who viewed the laboratory and its mice as his territory, according to a law enforcement official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing and many details remain sealed."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9APAMN81

This is evidence against him if it is true and it should not be fed to the press. On the other hand, no one has any way of verifying who said this or if it is true so it just serves to vilify someone who has been arrested, but not had his day in court where evidence can be presented by a witness and they can be cross examined.

[Ninja108]

Hi all! I'm just getting news of what happened in court today, on Nancy's show, and see RC is at a maximum security prison. Is that how it's handled in CT? No county jails? :confused:

Yes, there are no county jails. Pre-trial and those who have been convicted are housed in the same prisons, though in different areas.

[Tacori]

I wonder if there's a new job posting for his position?

[achristie]

If all janitors and "little people" took a couple of days off, JVM and a couple of the others wouldn't be talking about them the way they have.
On another note, prison is a stickler for rules, Clark will fit right in there!

I don't think the comments are meant to belittle someone. In the context of this case, in light of the "work place crime" , he certainly held a lesser position than Annie Le. She could breeze in and out doing her research. He had the full time job of caring for the rats and mice; cleaning the cages, feeding and watering, and scrubbing the floors. He's a stickler for following the rules? Ya think he felt tenderness toward the rats and mice? The same guy who reportedly left 2 huge dogs in crates whimpering all day long?

He was on a power trip. He did have power in his world. He had power over the rats and the mice.

MOO Aggie

[crimeq]

I do know animal techs that work in boarding kennels, feeding them, monitoring them and cleaning the area, etc., are not called or hired as "janitors."

Right you are, SS.

My vet's employees were vet students or trained in animal handling and care--not saying Clark was a vet student by any means, but I think he had some sophisticated animal handling training or certifications, though all we'll probably hear about from this point forward is his "controlling janitor" personality. Everything will be to distance him from Yale.

What he did was deplorable (assuming he's guilty, which I think he probably is) but the coverup on this will be massive (has been, is now, will become even more so).

[achristie]

I'm confused about him having "issues" with Annie over the lab animals. He's been there 4 yrs., at the same job, and what I'd like to know is if he's ever had the same issues with other students doing the same research/experiments as Annie? Why all of a sudden would he have problems now, 4 yrs. into the job? I'm thinking maybe he really didn't care at all about the animals, how clean the cages were, and actually resented the fact that he had to clean up after students ~ maybe especially Annie? I don't think the only motive is the lab animals, but I do believe he had a hatred/resentment for Annie. MOO

I have a feeling we will be hearing from former grad students who encountered difficulty with RC.

MOO

[sunstar]

Yes, there are no county jails. Pre-trial and those who have been convicted are housed in the same prisons, though in different areas.

Thanks so much! :smile:

[JHP]

I'm with you. This incident in highschool, where he trashed his girlfriend's locker, to the extent that the police were called and he was ordered to stay away from her, all because she said their relationship was over is very disturbing.

This woman said she was still very much afraid of him, so much so that she and her Mother went to the police station and she reported that even tho they had had an intimate relationship, he did force her to have sex against her will. At that time she did not want to file formal charges.

There is a news outlet following up on this story and they reported today that the police officer went to raymond's parents and had a talk with them about what was reported to him. I apologize for not having a link to this, but surely we will see more of his prior problems in the days ahead.

IMO, his parents are well aware of raymond's anger and control issues, this didn't just happen over night.

I wonder if the highschool girlfriend was Asian? He was a member of the Asian awareness club.

[sunstar]

I have a feeling we will be hearing from former grad students who encountered difficulty with RC.

MOO

That's what I'm wondering, if Annie was the only one or there were others he had issues with. On Nancy's show it was just brought up about the expected subservience of women in Asian culture and how he maybe expected Annie to do as he wanted (in the lab)?

[sunstar]

I wonder if the highschool girlfriend was Asian? He was a member of the Asian awareness club.

Good question! On Nancy's show, RC's high school friend just described the club, what it's purpose was. The friend couldn't answer NG's question why RC joined the club other than he had Asian friends.

[AlicePalace]

Thanks to you above for the technical information. I have about had it with JVM putting down custodians. The panel included. They stated this tech was a "nothing" and jealous of the Yale doctorals who would be elite. I found that all of her panel, along with her, look down on the employees that make a place run. How uppity can you get? Eek, and I have a degree.

I'm with you on this. I've had my fill of people getting their kicks out of crowing about how Raymond Clark was "just a JANITOR" and nothing more than a lowly JANITOR. Personally, I think far less of those who think they're above cleaning floors than I do the people who get out there and clean them. Making judgments about a person's line of work speaks far worse of the person making the judgment than it does the person doing the work.

[crimeq]

All I've heard so far is that he cleaned mice cages.

Here's a job order for a Mouse Tech, Level 4 at Colombia -- may be comparable to the Level 4 at Yale.

This position requires a degree and Clark doesn't have one, so he' not at this level -- but we can get a general idea of what a "Mouse Tech" does.

https://jobs.columbia.edu/applicants/jsp/shared/frameset/Frameset.jsp?time=1253234921904

[crimeq]

Did anyone from the panel answer the question? Sorry..I don't have access to a tv.

My guess would be because they "worked" together per se, it was probably necessary. I have many of my coworkers cell phone numbers.

Can you scroll right to the janitor's number on your cell? :tonguewag:

[sunstar]

On Nancy's show there was discussion about possible additional charges being brought, such as *if* she was sexually assaulted, to get the DP. Kidnapping was mentioned and one guest said holding someone against their will can be taken as kidnapping, and could apply in this case. Anyone think the DA might add something to seek the DP?

[Tacori]

Sorry if this video has been posted -

One classmate from HS describes RC as the class clown.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/17/raymond.clark.profile/#cnnSTCVideo

[AlicePalace]

That's what I'm wondering, if Annie was the only one or there were others he had issues with. On Nancy's show it was just brought up about the expected subservience of women in Asian culture and how he maybe expected Annie to do as he wanted (in the lab)?

Good lord. Annie Le was born in Placerville, California. I'm sorry, but it's an absolute insult to Le and every woman in America to bring up a tired old stereotype about "subservient" Asian women. Nancy Grace and everyone else should really know better in the year 2009.

[crimeq]

We had a good discussion on that this afternoon on here, Frankie. It seems like the consensus was (I'm sure there were some who disagreed) that it was not unusual to have the #s of the workers in the lab, and the people who used the lab. Also talked about text between the two. You know, many people now don't even have landlines anymore. I'd think especially younger people. And it would not be unusual for these two to have issues to talk about.

It doesn't surprise me that JVM and anyone on her show would call him a janitor. I think NG started that trend. His ex-employer stated he was a lab technician.

Well even doctors/lawyers/etc. and the most educated people on the planet commit heinous crimes. Calling him a janitor when that was not his title is unnecessarily demeaning. What he did to Annie is awful enough, assuming he is guilty of this crime.

Agree wholeheartedly, SS.

[Casecase]

It would be interesting to see his actual job description at Yale. Someone (??) posted they had researched Yale positions and found several different levels of Lab Tech, I, II, III, III etc. and we don't know what level he was--but probably higher than I, after working there for four years.

Whoever posted that: could you post a link? I wonder how much information is given about duties for each level.

They are going to make Clark the lowest of the low now though, compared to Annie being highest of the high.


Here you go. The job descriptions are very detailed.

Animal Tech I: http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compcla...al_tech_i.html

Animal Tech II: http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/B_Animal_Technician_II.htm

Animal Tech III: http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/C_animal_tech_iii.html

Animal Tech IV: http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/D_animal_tech_iv.html

Animal Tech V:
http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compcla..._template.html



IMO

[AlicePalace]

Agree wholeheartedly, SS.

Me three.

Additionally, I'm 33 years old and haven't had a landline for the past ten years. Most people I know in my age group don't have one either, and with anyone younger, the trend is even more strong.

[sunstar]

Good lord. Annie Le was born in Placerville, California. I'm sorry, but it's an absolute insult to Le and every woman in America to bring up a tired old stereotype about "subservient" Asian women. Nancy Grace and everyone else should really know better in the year 2009.

I interpreted the discussion as being how RC could've perceived Annie, not what Nancy thought. :smile:

[AlicePalace]

I just wanted to add that as Le lived in a house with roommates, it's even less likely that they would have a landline phone.

[AlicePalace]

I interpreted the discussion as being how RC could've perceived Annie, not what Nancy thought. :smile:

Even still, old Nancy Grace should be aware of the fact that Raymond Clark is a young man in his early 20s, not some retiree thumbing through pamphlets for a mail order bride. I guess it's possible, though highly unlikely, that Clark would think like that. Somehow I suspect that Branford High School's Asian Awareness Club didn't consist of women with bound feet hobbling around and serving the men tea, covering their mouths as they giggled.

[crimeq]

Yale's website lists his job title as "Animal Technician", but it doesn't say which classification. They have 5 different classifications of Animal Technician, each with varying degrees of duties and responsibilities.

Lowest level: http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/A_animal_tech_i.html

Highest level:
http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/job_template.html



IMO

Thanks for posting this, Casecase -- just what I was hoping for!

I'd say he's somewhere between -- no longer a TechI because obviously he didn't require constant supervision and he had what appears to be unlimited access to the high security lab.

Probably not Tech5 because he doesn't have a degree, but he probably has picked up a lot of those skills and perhaps responsibilities with OJT for four years.

He did more than clean floors as a "janitor." In fact, I'm surprised that Yale is letting it slide that one of their techs is being referred to as a "janitor" in the media.

[crimeq]

It could be that other animal techs have other responsibilities and duties. I don't know. All I'm saying is the way his job was described, it did not include any of the things mentioned by scienter.

Take a look at the job descriptions just posted by Casecase. They are Yale's own job descriptions. I think they've got it more correct than the media ;-) and am surprised they haven't issued a request for retraction/clarification as to the duties required of their animal techs.

[sunstar]

Even still, old Nancy Grace should be aware of the fact that Raymond Clark is a young man in his early 20s, not some retiree thumbing through pamphlets for a mail order bride. I guess it's possible, though highly unlikely, that Clark would think like that. Somehow I suspect that Branford High School's Asian Awareness Club didn't consist of women with bound feet hobbling around and serving the men tea, covering their mouths as they giggled.

Oh I agree with that. I do think though there could still be a resentment toward her accomplishments, since he is also 24 y/o, she's a doctoral student and he's a high school graduate with a somewhat menial job. Then enter into the scenario he may feel he's superior to her. MOO

[crimeq]

Why is calling him a janitor demeaning?:confused:

Because Yale Animal Techs have higher level skills and perform higher level job functions than that.

I'm not defending Clark for what he's done, but he's going to get smeared to the point that his prior life is unrecognizable even to him and his family AND HIS FORMER EMPLOYER.

[CanCan]

Well I don't know the real deal but I am probably alone on this board in thinking that he was obsessed with her & coveted her no matter that he had a fiance & a questionable marriage date well into 2011.

I believe he was rebuffed & the situation escalated from that point on.

Just my opinion & pure speculation on my part & perhaps far from the real truth.

:smile: Oh, no, you're not alone. I agree: Obsessed...Coveted...Rebuffed...Escalated. jmo

[Scampi]

I'm with you on this. I've had my fill of people getting their kicks out of crowing about how Raymond Clark was "just a JANITOR" and nothing more than a lowly JANITOR. Personally, I think far less of those who think they're above cleaning floors than I do the people who get out there and clean them. Making judgments about a person's line of work speaks far worse of the person making the judgment than it does the person doing the work.

LOL, how do you know who thinks they are above "cleaning floors" just by their posts on this forum, how absurd?

As for raymond, his job was to clean up mouse droppings and other assorted custodial duties in that lab. It is what it is.

[crimeq]

From what we've heard so far, I think he was in the lowest level of responsibilities category.

If so, he would not have been allowed to work unsupervised and it's very unlikely that he would have had universal high level lab security clearance on his electronic badge.

[crimeq]

From what we've heard so far, I think he was in the lowest level of responsibilities category.

and from this point forward, you won't hear ANYTHING to refute it, and you'll hear about how bad he was at his job--which of course is why Yale kept him onboard for four years. :sneaky:

[apothecary]

How could he even think to get away with this murder with all the high tech security.It certainly was not preplanned.

[CanCan]

So it's coworkers who told LE that the guy is a protocol stickler regarding the mice and their environment. Since it's he who was responsible for cleaning the floors, could be that it was more a matter of annoyance at extra work than regard for the animals. Maybe not.

In any case, this is the first time I read where the "rumour" came from, ....now finally the info appears credible. Could be I missed other reports though.

Whether the confrontation resulted from this issue, we don't know yet, other than that the emails hint at it and that LE specifies the crime as "workplace violence"

:glare: I'm not buying it. I think that RC only used this "clean cage" business as a ploy to have contact with Annie - to have conversations with her. Sounds sick, I know, but - hey - I think that the guy is probably a sicko.

jmo

[crimeq]

http://www.connpost.com/ci_13360183

Would personal alarm device have saved Le?



This is an interesting read.

Great read, thanks. Notice the writer said this: "Yale University Spokesman Tom Conroy didn't return my call on this."

Sadly, it may come to the point in our society where we each have to carry a security device like the one described, at all times, wherever we go.

[crimeq]

Thanks i kind of got that hint while going tru the haleigh cummings board and this one this afternoon. i really enjoy reading this board, my boyfriend thinks im addicted to this board si try to come when he's not arround:thumbsup:

hah! addicted already! lots of us have significant others who think we're addicted and just ... don't ... get it. LOL.

But my BF is addicted to playing online Hearts with good players all over the world, and I don't get that either.

[Scampi]

I wonder if the highschool girlfriend was Asian? He was a member of the Asian awareness club.

I don't know JHP, that's a good question. BTW, on Larry King right now, he has two very upset friends of raymonds on. They are shocked at this arrest.

[mitzi]

Anybody else watching Ray Ray's friends on LKL? No idea why they even bothered.....

[AlicePalace]

Oh I agree with that. I do think though there could still be a resentment toward her accomplishments, since he is also 24 y/o, she's a doctoral student and he's a high school graduate with a somewhat menial job. Then enter into the scenario he may feel he's superior to her. MOO

This has been my theory from the get-go. I don't mean to be demeaning, but Clark is a townie (an especially harsh stereotype in New Haven) who has spent four years working at a school with a student body that's primarily wealthy, and all too frequently spoiled, to put it bluntly. The idea of long-simmering anger and resentment comes as no shock to me, and I don't think that long-simmering anger and resentment was directed toward Le in particular. It's possible, but it seems Clark's issues have exhibited themselves in the past, what with the complaints about him being a control freak.

I am very curious to see the content of the Clark/Le e-mails and texts. While it's quite apparent what's wrong with Raymond Clark, I would not rule out the idea that he did find Le's lab protocol to be a long-standing problem.

We've seen reports that she was often spotting rolling her mice across campus, which is an unorthodox practice in that environment. I did not know Le personally, and don't mean to speak ill of her, but am simply going on stated facts. Even if she had the worst lab manners ever seen, Le did not deserve to die, but the dead are just as capable of making mistakes as the rest of us.

[achristie]

I'm with you on this. I've had my fill of people getting their kicks out of crowing about how Raymond Clark was "just a JANITOR" and nothing more than a lowly JANITOR. Personally, I think far less of those who think they're above cleaning floors than I do the people who get out there and clean them. Making judgments about a person's line of work speaks far worse of the person making the judgment than it does the person doing the work.

I'd rather be a janitor scrubbing floors than an animal custodian cleaning up after rats and mice. You are missing the point. Just sayin'.

MOO Aggie

[crimeq]

If Clark hadn't made it past level one in four years, I can't see him being so meticulous or anal about the lab. Heck why worry about anything, time to change jobs. JMOPO

My guess is he'd be about Level 3 and handled lots of responsibilities that he picked up over four years of OJT.

I'm not sure Yale would even keep anyone that was not progressing in a job. Progression is normal and expected.

[Missti]

Anybody else watching Ray Ray's friends on LKL? No idea why they even bothered.....


I am watching...and it's been really painful. LK is slow enough with speaking, let alone that woman who had no clue how to finish a sentence. One friend hasn't opened his mouth in minutes...and the other is talking in circles.

The best part of the show tonight appears to be the commercials.

JMO

[AlicePalace]

LOL, how do you know who thinks they are above "cleaning floors" just by their posts on this forum, how absurd?

As for raymond, his job was to clean up mouse droppings and other assorted custodial duties in that lab. It is what it is.

The only person who suggested I was speaking about anyone on this forum was you, Scampi.

[aubrey04]

Yes, there are no county jails. Pre-trial and those who have been convicted are housed in the same prisons, though in different areas.

Wow. You would have saved me some time earlier. When people were asking about his height/weight earlier (which we ended up finding out from the affidavit) - I went searching all over for which county jail he was in.

That's strange - I have never heard of inmates that are awaiting trial -- being kept in prison, instead of county jail. Very interesting.. thanks for the post.

[apothecary]

Great read, thanks. Notice the writer said this: "Yale University Spokesman Tom Conroy didn't return my call on this."

Sadly, it may come to the point in our society where we each have to carry a security device like the one described, at all times, wherever we go.
I wonder if the cell phones could have a sound device on them that sounds an alarm when someone presses a button.It would mean that the cell phones would have to be on the person at all times and if so may possible interfere with delicate machines.Just a thought.
.

[Casecase]

Even still, old Nancy Grace should be aware of the fact that Raymond Clark is a young man in his early 20s, not some retiree thumbing through pamphlets for a mail order bride. I guess it's possible, though highly unlikely, that Clark would think like that. Somehow I suspect that Branford High School's Asian Awareness Club didn't consist of women with bound feet hobbling around and serving the men tea, covering their mouths as they giggled.


Although food appears to play a large part in Branford's Asian Awareness Club, I think you're right!

It's interesting that most of the original club members were from India, not China, Japan, Phillippines, etc.

http://www.branfordhigh.org/?PageName='OrganizationPage'&OrganizationID='4770'


IMO

[Scampi]

This has been my theory from the get-go. I don't mean to be demeaning, but Clark is a townie (an especially harsh stereotype in New Haven) who has spent four years working at a school with a student body that's primarily wealthy, and all too frequently spoiled, to put it bluntly. The idea of long-simmering anger and resentment comes as no shock to me, and I don't think that long-simmering anger and resentment was directed toward Le in particular. It's possible, but it seems Clark's issues have exhibited themselves in the past, what with the complaints about him being a control freak.

I am very curious to see the content of the Clark/Le e-mails and texts. While it's quite apparent what's wrong with Raymond Clark, I would not rule out the idea that he did Find Le's lab protocol to be a long-standing problem.

We've seen reports that she was often spotting rolling her mice across campus, which is an unorthodox practice in that environment. I did not know Le personally, and don't mean to speak ill of her, but am simply going on stated facts. Even if she had the worst lab manners ever seen, Le did not deserve to die, but the dead are just as capable of making mistakes as the rest of us.

.....and by rolling the mice across campus, of course you mean in a cage upon a cart. Correct?

[Casecase]

I wonder if there's a new job posting for his position?


I checked when I was looking at the job descriptions, thought it would narrow down his classification. No new postings for an Animal Tech.


IMO

[crimeq]

To those that don't know and I did post this once before.
Lab Technician - 2 years of college - Do testing
Lab Technologist- 4 years of college- Do Higher Testing

Kind of like the difference in a LPN nurse and a RN nurse.

It appears that Animal Tech are either certified or registered but college is not needed. See below.




AALAS' Certification and Registry Board (CRB) certifies three levels of technician competence:

Assistant Laboratory Animal Technician (ALAT)
Laboratory Animal Technician (LAT)
Laboratory Animal Technologist (LATG)
The technician certification designations of ALAT, LAT, and LATG are well known and widely used throughout the varied fields of laboratory animal care. In fact, these certifications have come to be a common requirement for a lab animal care position.

Below is a general overview of the technician certification process. For complete program information, download the Technician Certification Handbookhttp://www.aalas.org/images/pdf_sm.gif (http://www.aalas.org/pdf/Tech_Cert_handbook.pdf). The handbook contains everything you need to know about application and testing procedures, qualification criteria, exam fees, and many other topics, and should be retained for use as a reference during the application process.
http://www.aalas.org/images/top.jpg (http://www.aalas.org/certification/tech_cert.asp#Tech)

Education and Work Experience RequirementsALATNo high school diploma or GED +2 years laboratory animal science experienceHS diploma or GED +1 year laboratory animal science experienceAny college degree of 2 or more years duration+0.5 year laboratory animal science experienceLATHS diploma or GED +3 years laboratory animal science experienceAny AA/AS degree +2 years laboratory animal science experienceAny BA/BS or higher degree+1 year laboratory animal science experienceALAT certification plus HS diploma/GED, or college or higher degree +0.5 year after receiving ALAT certification ALAT certification without HS diploma/GED, or any college degree +2 years after receiving ALAT certification LATGHS diploma or GED +5 years laboratory animal science experienceAny AA/AS degree +4 years laboratory animal science experienceAny BA/BS or higher degree+3 years laboratory animal science experienceLAT certification plus HS diploma or GED, or college or higher degree+0.5 year after receiving LAT certification
A year's worth of work experience is equivalent to 1950 hours. The CRB allows for experience in non-laboratory animal environment (up to 3 years) to be applied to the required work experience using the following equation.

http://www.aalas.org/certification/tech_cert.asp

Thanks, Ice. Some are just determined to spin that Clark was a surly janitor.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Because Yale Animal Techs have higher level skills and perform higher level job functions than that.

I'm not defending Clark for what he's done, but he's going to get smeared to the point that his prior life is unrecognizable even to him and his family AND HIS FORMER EMPLOYER.

I agree with this. The curious thing is that if Annie had been the tech (janitor), then the general concensus would probably be that RC thought he was superior since he had a degree, and she was just a tech (janitor). An entire case could be built around that. This is bad enough as it is IMO without embellishing what he was or wasn't. At this point he is wanted for murder and that trumps everything else IMO.

[AMS]

Anybody else watching Ray Ray's friends on LKL? No idea why they even bothered.....

Yeah the friend named Maurice doesn't seem like he wants to be there. The other friend is annoying....he talks way too much. Nervous I guess.

imo

[Scampi]

Anybody else watching Ray Ray's friends on LKL? No idea why they even bothered.....

The one on the right is hyper as all get out. Forget his male friends, let's hear from his female friends.:smile:

[AlicePalace]

I'd rather be a janitor scrubbing floors than an animal custodian cleaning up after rats and mice. You are missing the point. Just sayin'.

MOO Aggie

I'm not sure what point I'm missing? I don't mean to be obtuse, but I'm really not getting it.

[crimeq]

I hear ya! My daughter thinks I'm nuts following true crime, but like you, addiction runs deep. :thumbup: At least this "addiction" is a heck of alot cheaper than some I could choose!:thumbup:

And healthier, Survivor!:smile:

[crimeq]

Thank you!

Sooooo, If he didn't get in any trouble, he might have been up for a promotion to LATG in a year or so. Assuming of course, that he had been progressing all along?

That would be my take on it!

[mitzi]

I am watching...and it's been really painful. LK is slow enough with speaking, let alone that woman who had no clue how to finish a sentence. One friend hasn't opened his mouth in minutes...and the other is talking in circles.

The best part of the show tonight appears to be the commercials.

JMO

Painful is the perfect word. These 2 are pathetic. The guy on the left can barely put two words together. The one on the right is just babbling. No idea what he is talking about....

[AnniePie]

Thanks i kind of got that hint while going tru the haleigh cummings board and this one this afternoon. i really enjoy reading this board, my boyfriend thinks im addicted to this board si try to come when he's not arround:thumbsup:

Welcome to the boards!

I think we all have people in our lives who think we're addicted. And so what if we are! LOL :tonguewag:

[Scampi]

Thanks, Ice. Some are just determined to spin that Clark was a surly janitor.
Please tell me Miss Nancy didn't add surly to her janitor description of raymond........... :lol:

[achristie]

This has been my theory from the get-go. I don't mean to be demeaning, but Clark is a townie (an especially harsh stereotype in New Haven) who has spent four years working at a school with a student body that's primarily wealthy, and all too frequently spoiled, to put it bluntly. The idea of long-simmering anger and resentment comes as no shock to me, and I don't think that long-simmering anger and resentment was directed toward Le in particular. It's possible, but it seems Clark's issues have exhibited themselves in the past, what with the complaints about him being a control freak.

I am very curious to see the content of the Clark/Le e-mails and texts. While it's quite apparent what's wrong with Raymond Clark, I would not rule out the idea that he did Find Le's lab protocol to be a long-standing problem.

We've seen reports that she was often spotting rolling her mice across campus, which is an unorthodox practice in that environment. I did not know Le personally, and don't mean to speak ill of her, but am simply going on stated facts. Even if she had the worst lab manners ever seen, Le did not deserve to die, but the dead are just as capable of making mistakes as the rest of us.

Let me get this straight. Your opinion is that he had a problem because he was a townie? A townie who resented the rich, spoiled kids that went to Yale? And this rich, spoiled kid, Annie Le , whose mother owned a nail salon in California, ticked him off because of her disrespect for rats? She rolled them across town which is unorthodox? Are you kidding me?

[AMS]

On LKL - does Jeannine Pirro have a new hair color?

Wonder if she has defected from Fox.


imo

[AlicePalace]

.....and by rolling the mice across campus, of course you mean in a cage upon a cart. Correct?

That is correct.

It's my understanding that this practice was highly unusual, considering that the mice are generally kept in a strictly controlled environment.

[CanCan]

On LKL, Dr. Welner (shrink) just said, as to motive: "Rejection is the most common cause of workplace homicide." He said that people don't kill over mice.

[aubrey04]

The one on the right is hyper as all get out. Forget his male friends, let's hear from his female friends.:smile:

In particular, where is the old high school girlfriend who made the allegations about him back when they were in high school. She allegedly took to her facebook to discuss her shock that RayRay was arrested.

Wonder why Miss Nancy, JVM and/or LK couldn't get a hold of her?

[Missti]

Painful is the perfect word. These 2 are pathetic. The guy on the left can barely put two words together. The one on the right is just babbling. No idea what he is talking about....

And now he wants to shake the "kids" hand? WTH? They are the same age, why is he calling him a kid? He looked really frustrated as they went to commercial...probably realizing the segment is over and he didn't SAY anything.

[Scampi]

.....and bobby winds up his brilliant appearance on LKL by saying if raymond was there right now, he'd give him a big hug and shake his hand.

I'm sure the Le family is glad to hear that. What an idiot. imo

[AlicePalace]

Let me get this straight. Your opinion is that he had a problem because he was a townie? A townie who resented the rich, spoiled kids that went to Yale? And this rich, spoiled kid, Annie Le , whose mother owned a nail salon in California, ticked him off because of her disrespect for rats? She rolled them across town which is unorthodox? Are you kidding me?

No, I'm not kidding you. And I'm also not suggesting that Clark was driven to rage because he was a townie.

What I AM suggesting is that Raymond Clark was a townie (of that much we are sure) with a long history of rage, anger, and myriad other issues that all came to a head on Tuesday, September 8th, 2009.

As far as any of us know, Clark had no reason to have quizzed Annie Le about the contents of her bank account or her parents' line of work. I don't know about you, but the only people who know what my parents do are those who are very, very close to me. I could come from a line of railroad heirs or winos as far as 98% of people I speak with would know.

[Scampi]

In particular, where is the old high school girlfriend who made the allegations about him back when they were in high school. She allegedly took to her facebook to discuss her shock that RayRay was arrested.

Wonder why Miss Nancy, JVM and/or LK couldn't get a hold of her?

I bet the prosecutor gets ahold of her.

[CanCan]

If Clark hadn't made it past level one in four years, I can't see him being so meticulous or anal about the lab. Heck why worry about anything, time to change jobs. JMOPO

:biggrin: You read my mind, swab.

[crimeq]

Thanks to you above for the technical information. I have about had it with JVM putting down custodians. The panel included. They stated this tech was a "nothing" and jealous of the Yale doctorals who would be elite. I found that all of her panel, along with her, look down on the employees that make a place run. How uppity can you get? Eek, and I have a degree.

Playing up disparity in status is good for entertainment value, for JVM and NGrace. It is true that a brilliant star was snuffed by someone who would most likely contribute to an overall good such as Annie was capable of, but his job had meaning, dignity, and he wasn't a janitor.

It's better entertainment value for JVM and NGrace to present it in that light, though. Much more salacious.

[aubrey04]

I bet the prosecutor gets ahold of her.

I do too. Can't wait to hear what she has to say!

Hope we get to hear from her before LE tells her to zip it. :tongueside:

[AMS]

.....and bobby winds up his brilliant appearance on LKL by saying if raymond was there right now, he'd give him a big hug and shake his hand.

I'm sure the Le family is glad to hear that. What an idiot. imo

"Idiot" is the description that came to my mind. Moron and fool popped in as well.

INteresting that neither of the friends have contacted Ray-Ray's family. They seemed weird about doing so.

imo

[SavannahStar]

Playing up disparity in status is good for entertainment value, for JVM and NGrace. It is true that a brilliant star was snuffed by someone who would most likely contribute to an overall good such as Annie was capable of, but his job had meaning, dignity, and he wasn't a janitor.

It's better entertainment value for JVM and NGrace to present it in that light, though. Much more salacious.


You absolutely nailed it.

[sunstar]

I am watching...and it's been really painful. LK is slow enough with speaking, let alone that woman who had no clue how to finish a sentence. One friend hasn't opened his mouth in minutes...and the other is talking in circles.

The best part of the show tonight appears to be the commercials.

JMO

I see I'm not missing anything by choosing to watch CSI instead!

[Tacori]

I checked when I was looking at the job descriptions, thought it would narrow down his classification. No new postings for an Animal Tech.


IMO

Thank you!

[Missti]

I see I'm not missing anything by choosing to watch CSI instead!

You could have chosen to watch paint dry....and that would have been a better choice than mine was. :tonguewag:

[KatieLady]

Playing up disparity in status is good for entertainment value, for JVM and NGrace. It is true that a brilliant star was snuffed by someone who would most likely contribute to an overall good such as Annie was capable of, but his job had meaning, dignity, and he wasn't a janitor.

It's better entertainment value for JVM and NGrace to present it in that light, though. Much more salacious.

Hi crime...good to see you,

I really don't care what his job description is.....IMO even if he was a Professor....if he did this he is scum...pure and simple!

But I will say, before I retired, the Janitor at the school was my most valued co-worker. I couldn't have gotten along without his help....most everyday.

[Scampi]

Playing up disparity in status is good for entertainment value, for JVM and NGrace. It is true that a brilliant star was snuffed by someone who would most likely contribute to an overall good such as Annie was capable of, but his job had meaning, dignity, and he wasn't a janitor.

It's better entertainment value for JVM and NGrace to present it in that light, though. Much more salacious.

Yes, but they were discussing that in the context of motive and who knows, raymond may have been envious of kids his age who were able to go to college. I thought it was a legitimate discussion.

The psychologist on there even mentioned steroid rage, I mentioned that earlier today. He also gave a statistic that most workplace murders of men on women involved some type of rejection. I absolutely believe that applies in this case.

[sunstar]

.....and bobby winds up his brilliant appearance on LKL by saying if raymond was there right now, he'd give him a big hug and shake his hand.

I'm sure the Le family is glad to hear that. What an idiot. imo

I think LK has sunk to a new low tonight from what I'm reading. Why on earth would he want to have the defendant's friends on his show? If the purpose was to get some insight into what RC is like, or why he *allegedly* killed Annie, how about calling in some criminal profilers instead! MOO

[CanCan]

I'm confused about him having "issues" with Annie over the lab animals. He's been there 4 yrs., at the same job, and what I'd like to know is if he's ever had the same issues with other students doing the same research/experiments as Annie? Why all of a sudden would he have problems now, 4 yrs. into the job? I'm thinking maybe he really didn't care at all about the animals, how clean the cages were, and actually resented the fact that he had to clean up after students ~ maybe especially Annie? I don't think the only motive is the lab animals, but I do believe he had a hatred/resentment for Annie. MOO

:thumbup: Precisely, sunstar. I think that the timing has to do with Annie's upcoming wedding........in 5 days.

jmo

[crimeq]

Survivor, thanks for keeping me honest with sourcing my data:



http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31416975/ns/health-mens_health/

Very interesting, thanks Scienter. It makes sense: "Junior" is perpetually infantilizing.

[impartial]

No, I'm not kidding you. And I'm also not suggesting that Clark was driven to rage because he was a townie.

What I AM suggesting is that Raymond Clark was a townie (of that much we are sure) with a long history of rage, anger, and myriad other issues that all came to a head on Tuesday, September 8th, 2009.

As far as any of us know, Clark had no reason to have quizzed Annie Le about the contents of her bank account or her parents' line of work. I don't know about you, but the only people who know what my parents do are those who are very, very close to me. I could come from a line of railroad heirs or winos as far as 98% of people I speak with would know.

If it's the railroad heirs ... need a new friend? :w00t:

I really don't think Ray's or Annie's positions in life had anything to do with it.

Ray is a constant in the lab, students come and go. He probably is a control freak, and who knows how much his supervisors emphasized the importance of keeping things clean and perhaps the students didn't have the same perspective.

In no way do I believe this was a pre-planned event, other than a pre-planned meeting that went horribly and tragically wrong, with Ray becoming enraged and losing it.

imo

[AnniePie]

I'm with you on this. I've had my fill of people getting their kicks out of crowing about how Raymond Clark was "just a JANITOR" and nothing more than a lowly JANITOR. Personally, I think far less of those who think they're above cleaning floors than I do the people who get out there and clean them. Making judgments about a person's line of work speaks far worse of the person making the judgment than it does the person doing the work.

Hmmm... are you insinuating that some of us on this board are making judgments of janitors and that none of us have ever cleaned floors? :scared: Whoa. I certainly missed something here!

[crimeq]

I'm confused about him having "issues" with Annie over the lab animals. He's been there 4 yrs., at the same job, and what I'd like to know is if he's ever had the same issues with other students doing the same research/experiments as Annie? Why all of a sudden would he have problems now, 4 yrs. into the job? I'm thinking maybe he really didn't care at all about the animals, how clean the cages were, and actually resented the fact that he had to clean up after students ~ maybe especially Annie? I don't think the only motive is the lab animals, but I do believe he had a hatred/resentment for Annie. MOO

Or a fantasy about Annie.

An organization the quality of Yale would not keep an employee who didn't perform, perform well, and particularly didn't perform for four years. It wouldn't happen.

That would be making Yale very, very lax in the Research world, and they aren't anything close to that.
From what I understand, conditions in the animal lab must be kept pristine for results of the research. Why would you think a major research university would allow someone on staff for four years, who didn't perform up to standard or most likely since its an elite organization, well beyond standard?

[impartial]

Yes, but they were discussing that in the context of motive and who knows, raymond may have been envious of kids his age who were able to go to college. I thought it was a legitimate discussion.

The psychologist on there even mentioned steroid rage, I mentioned that earlier today. He also gave a statistic that most workplace murders of men on women involved some type of rejection. I absolutely believe that applies in this case.


Could have been as simple as a rejection of his ideas ... or felt she was being dismissive about the importance of protocol.

imo

[AlicePalace]

Hmmm... are you insinuating that some of us on this board are making judgments of janitors and that none of us have ever cleaned floors? :scared: Whoa. I certainly missed something here!

I was referring to the fact that Nancy Grace spits out the word "janitor" as if it was burning her tongue.

[AnniePie]

.....and by rolling the mice across campus, of course you mean in a cage upon a cart. Correct?

LOL! :laugh:

[crimeq]

well have a great night I am going to watch Survivor and some family time they say I am addicted to this..lol..have a GREAT EVENING EVERYONE:seeya:

We've got our own "Survivor" here, if still on! :tonguewag:

[achristie]

No, I'm not kidding you. And I'm also not suggesting that Clark was driven to rage because he was a townie.

What I AM suggesting is that Raymond Clark was a townie (of that much we are sure) with a long history of rage, anger, and myriad other issues that all came to a head on Tuesday, September 8th, 2009.

As far as any of us know, Clark had no reason to have quizzed Annie Le about the contents of her bank account or her parents' line of work. I don't know about you, but the only people who know what my parents do are those who are very, very close to me. I could come from a line of railroad heirs or winos as far as 98% of people I speak with would know.

I agree with all you said about rage, anger, etc., yet you say his menial job had nothing to do with it. I disagree. You are surmising that all Yalies are rich, spoiled kids. I disagree with that, as well.

MOO Aggie

[AlicePalace]

If it's the railroad heirs ... need a new friend? :w00t:

I really don't think Ray's or Annie's positions in life had anything to do with it.

Ray is a constant in the lab, students come and go. He probably is a control freak, and who knows how much his supervisors emphasized the importance of keeping things clean and perhaps the students didn't have the same perspective.

In no way do I believe this was a pre-planned event, other than a pre-planned meeting that went horribly and tragically wrong, with Ray becoming enraged and losing it.

imo

Precisely.

[crimeq]

I'm sorry, but law enforcement officials should not anonymously be releasing details like this - "Co-workers told police that Clark was a "control freak" who viewed the laboratory and its mice as his territory, according to a law enforcement official who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing and many details remain sealed."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j3Z7m0uROG-_CM8GzpRCqE2M9IbwD9APAMN81

This is evidence against him if it is true and it should not be fed to the press. On the other hand, no one has any way of verifying who said this or if it is true so it just serves to vilify someone who has been arrested, but not had his day in court where evidence can be presented by a witness and they can be cross examined.

Correct, when we get to hear him or others describe his job responsibilities on the witness stand, we'll find out he was no janitor--but by then the public will be so biased by the media representation, they'll think he was someone who couldn't clean the floors properly, never advanced in his job and didn't even do it properly.

Right, that's the kind of employee Yale likes to keep around!

[AlicePalace]

I agree with all you said about rage, anger, etc., yet you say his menial job had nothing to do with it. I disagree. You are surmising that all Yalies are rich, spoiled kids. I disagree with that, as well.

MOO Aggie

Where exactly did I say his job had nothing to do with this?

I know firsthand that all students at Yale are not rich, spoiled kids. But I also know that some of them are- and if you're inclined to notice those kids, a growing, blind resentment might blind you to the students who do not fit into that category.

[SavannahStar]

I was referring to the fact that Nancy Grace spits out the word "janitor" as if it was burning her tongue.


:laugh: Good description!

[sunstar]

Or a fantasy about Annie.

An organization the quality of Yale would not keep an employee who didn't perform, perform well, and particularly didn't perform for four years. It wouldn't happen.

That would be making Yale very, very lax in the Research world, and they aren't anything close to that.
From what I understand, conditions in the animal lab must be kept pristine for results of the research. Why would you think a major research university would allow someone on staff for four years, who didn't perform up to standard or most likely since its an elite organization, well beyond standard?

I think he probably did a very good job at work to be able to stay there for 4 yrs. but it was still beneath what Annie was doing, or capable of doing after she completed her studies. However, he also has some family members employed there in the same area, and they could've facilitated his employment to begin with. I think his motive could be anything from a fantasy about Annie, envisioning himself with her, not liking that she was marrying someone else, or a complete resentment of her professional status vs. his. MOO

[crimeq]

I wonder if there's a new job posting for his position?

I looked on indeedjobs.com that has Yale listings, and didn't see anything for an animal tech.

[CanCan]

Anybody else watching Ray Ray's friends on LKL? No idea why they even bothered.....

:thumbdown: Had to hit my Mute Button

[CanCan]

.....and by rolling the mice across campus, of course you mean in a cage upon a cart. Correct?


:laugh: Oh, thanks, Scampi. All I could picture was the hamster in the the movie BOLT.

[Browneyes]

In particular, where is the old high school girlfriend who made the allegations about him back when they were in high school. She allegedly took to her facebook to discuss her shock that RayRay was arrested.

Wonder why Miss Nancy, JVM and/or LK couldn't get a hold of her?

IMO, the high school girlfriend who made those allegations will probably be saved to testify at trial.

[AlicePalace]

I looked on indeedjobs.com that has Yale listings, and didn't see anything for an animal tech.

From what I understand, the lab was closed for a few days after the discovery of Le's body. I imagine they have enough pressing issues to deal with before they start advertising a job opening, especially in this economy.

Additionally, Clark's job appears to have been unionized, and that's a whole other can of worms. Here's the directly applicable quote:

The president said Clark was suspended from his job and barred from the Yale campus, while his ID no longer allows him access to any Yale building, the procedure for anyone at Yale charged with a major crime.

http://nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/17/news/new_haven/doc4ab2727d6e901745343321.txt

What the article doesn't state is whether or not the position is held until the outcome of the trial. I can't imagine Raymond Clark's going to be returning to Yale anytime soon, but it's unclear how a job search would go about under those circumstances. I'm sure many people are wondering, given this economy.

[Lianasmom]

Sorry if any of these opinions or thoughts have already been posted (I can only occasionally get on the board), but perhaps RC joined the Asian Awareness Club to meet Asian girls. HS kids don't do things for the same reasons we older folks do.

And I also believe he had to have had a romantic/sexual interest in Annie. I mean, let's face it, she was an adorable, beautiful, smart, and undoubtedly, charming 24 year old girl and he's 24. 24 year old men aren't thinking about mice, especially when girls like Annie are around.

Also, I've heard that traumatic asphyxiation could involve being in a choke hold or having a bar-type device held against your neck. Makes me wonder if RC grabbed Annie around the neck with his arm from behind. I could see her clawing him and her hands even reaching around to his back, but I still can't see how he got so many scratches if he had his clothes on. Surely, he wasn't hiding behind the door naked when she walked in.

JMO.

[CanCan]

.....and bobby winds up his brilliant appearance on LKL by saying if raymond was there right now, he'd give him a big hug and shake his hand.

I'm sure the Le family is glad to hear that. What an idiot. imo

:cursing: Is it safe to UN-MUTE my TV yet???

[crimeq]

Sorry if this video has been posted -

One classmate from HS describes RC as the class clown.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/17/raymond.clark.profile/#cnnSTCVideo

Also in this article, described by a researcher as a nice man:

One researcher said he often went by the lab in the Yale School of Medicine building where Le was found strangled and stuffed in a wall. Lufeng Zhang worked with Clark, he said, and thinks the police may have the wrong man.

"He's a nice man, always," he said.

[SavannahStar]

:cursing: Is it safe to UN-MUTE my TV yet???


No. NG repeat is on. :lol:

[CanCan]

Hi crime...good to see you,

I really don't care what his job description is.....IMO even if he was a Professor....if he did this he is scum...pure and simple!

But I will say, before I retired, the Janitor at the school was my most valued co-worker. I couldn't have gotten along without his help....most everyday.

:thumbsup: DITTO for me, KatieLady!!!!!

[Browneyes]

If this case goes to trial, I would love to hear what Annie's fiance and family thought of RC...or had she ever spoken of him at all?

[Scampi]

:cursing: Is it safe to UN-MUTE my TV yet???

It's safe, they're off. That's not to say they won't take their show on the road and wind up on The Today Show or GMA in the morning.

Bobby and Maurice's excellent adventure! Idiots, just what this case needs. :rolleyes:

[crimeq]

Here you go. The job descriptions are very detailed.

Animal Tech I: http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compcla...al_tech_i.html

Animal Tech II: http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/B_Animal_Technician_II.htm

Animal Tech III: http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/C_animal_tech_iii.html

Animal Tech IV: http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compclas/posn/D_animal_tech_iv.html

Animal Tech V:
http://www.yale.edu/hronline/compcla..._template.html



IMO

Thanks, Case! Exactly what I was looking for. IMO he's an Animal Tech III.

I'm going to post these links in the Links area--hope that's OK with you!

[SavannahStar]

And I also believe he had to have had a romantic/sexual interest in Annie. I mean, let's face it, she was an adorable, beautiful, smart, and undoubtedly, charming 24 year old girl and he's 24. 24 year old men aren't thinking about mice, especially when girls like Annie are around.

*snipped*



I totally agree that Annie was an absolutely lovely, beautiful woman in every sense of the word. But that doesn't mean every man that knew her "had to have had a a romantic/sexual interest" in her, does it? Remember RC was engaged and seemingly happy with his girlfriend. Do you think every male who worked there had a romantic/sexual interest in Annie? Is that what you're saying? Or just RC? If so, why? He was certainly not the only man who worked there while Annie was around.

[5swab5]

No. NG repeat is on. :lol:

LOL! JVM and her gavel have gotten on my last nerve. When did she get that obnoxious thing?:rolleyes:

[CanCan]

If it's the railroad heirs ... need a new friend? :w00t:

I really don't think Ray's or Annie's positions in life had anything to do with it.

Ray is a constant in the lab, students come and go. He probably is a control freak, and who knows how much his supervisors emphasized the importance of keeping things clean and perhaps the students didn't have the same perspective.

In no way do I believe this was a pre-planned event, other than a pre-planned meeting that went horribly and tragically wrong, with Ray becoming enraged and losing it.

imo

:biggrinjester: And this was his motive??!! :cursing:

[Lianasmom]

I totally agree that Annie was an absolutely lovely, beautiful woman in every sense of the word. But that doesn't mean every man that knew her "had to have had a a romantic/sexual interest" in her, does it? Remember RC was engaged and seemingly happy with his girlfriend. Do you think every male who worked there had a romantic/sexual interest in Annie? Is that what you're saying? Or just RC? If so, why? He was certainly not the only man who worked there while Annie was around.

I didn't say every man, I said a young 24 year old single guy like RC. You have two young, attractive people working together, RC's had his share of girlfriends and is probably use to attracting women. Annie is exceptionally attractive, so, of course, I believe he naturally had some type of attraction to her, even an obsession, and I think that will come out for certain. Just because he had a gf doesn't mean he wouldn't be attracted to other women. Remember being 24? IMO, RC's fantasies about Annie and his desire to control made for a dangerous combination in this case.

[Browneyes]

LOL! JVM and her gavel have gotten on my last nerve. When did she get that obnoxious thing?:rolleyes:

I agree about the gavel. Of course, it wasn't any more obnoxious than the host herself...imo. Do her guests get paid to take that abuse? :scared:

[crimeq]

This has been my theory from the get-go. I don't mean to be demeaning, but Clark is a townie (an especially harsh stereotype in New Haven) who has spent four years working at a school with a student body that's primarily wealthy, and all too frequently spoiled, to put it bluntly. The idea of long-simmering anger and resentment comes as no shock to me, and I don't think that long-simmering anger and resentment was directed toward Le in particular. It's possible, but it seems Clark's issues have exhibited themselves in the past, what with the complaints about him being a control freak.

I am very curious to see the content of the Clark/Le e-mails and texts. While it's quite apparent what's wrong with Raymond Clark, I would not rule out the idea that he did find Le's lab protocol to be a long-standing problem.

We've seen reports that she was often spotting rolling her mice across campus, which is an unorthodox practice in that environment. I did not know Le personally, and don't mean to speak ill of her, but am simply going on stated facts. Even if she had the worst lab manners ever seen, Le did not deserve to die, but the dead are just as capable of making mistakes as the rest of us.

Is "townie" a term normally given to just anyone who's from the town, or to college students who are from the town? Where I went to school, it was used to describe locals who were attending school there, but I don't recall it being applied to other people in town--businesspersons, housewives, teachers or professors who were local. Don't know for sure, I just never heard it in that context.

[Tacori]

Also in this article, described by a researcher as a nice man:

One researcher said he often went by the lab in the Yale School of Medicine building where Le was found strangled and stuffed in a wall. Lufeng Zhang worked with Clark, he said, and thinks the police may have the wrong man.

"He's a nice man, always," he said.


It does.

Is that the article you were referring to earlier?

[impartial]

:biggrinjester: And this was his motive??!! :cursing:



Uncontrolled anger ... no motive.

She may not have taken it as seriously as he did, may have been somewhat dismissive about his importance of booties, cleanliness, etc. It appears that others have indicated in the past, he made a big deal about booties, implying it wasn't as big of a deal as he made it out to be. Well, years of people dismissing his strict adherence to protocol may have been the catalist for his anger on this particular day.

Just guessing here ... but with the way LE has described it, it seems to fit.

imo

[crimeq]

.....and by rolling the mice across campus, of course you mean in a cage upon a cart. Correct?

as opposed to all dressed in little sun bonnets, in buggies? :tonguewag:

[CanCan]

It's safe, they're off. That's not to say they won't take their show on the road and wind up on The Today Show or GMA in the morning.

Bobby and Maurice's excellent adventure! Idiots, just what this case needs. :rolleyes:

:tonguewag: Hahahaha!!!!!

[Browneyes]

:biggrinjester: And this was his motive??!! :cursing:

You would be surprised what little things can set people off. One time, a guy I worked with threw his keys at me when I told him I couldn't send something by UPS for him on the company account. It doesn't take much sometimes. :sad:

[impartial]

I agree about the gavel. Of course, it wasn't any more obnoxious than the host herself...imo. Do her guests get paid to take that abuse? :scared:


There's not enough money.

I cannot and will not watch her. She has become nothing more than a characature (sp?); unfortunately, there are people that follow and accept her bs as gospel.

imo

[crimeq]

Please tell me Miss Nancy didn't add surly to her janitor description of raymond........... :lol:

It's coming, mark my words, so far it's just unpleasant disposition being reported, but you know how quickly that can turn surly. :tonguewag:

[Browneyes]

There's not enough money.

I cannot and will not watch her. She has become nothing more than a characature (sp?); unfortunately, there are people that follow and accept her bs as gospel.

imo

I can never make it through the whole show....her screaming and yelling gets on my last nerve.

[crimeq]

Hmmm... are you insinuating that some of us on this board are making judgments of janitors and that none of us have ever cleaned floors? :scared: Whoa. I certainly missed something here!

Well Annie <sneaking a look around my house that suffers from my addiction to IS, peeking at the kitchen floor>

Lo and behold, my BF mopped the kitchen floor :ohmy:

[crimeq]

I was referring to the fact that Nancy Grace spits out the word "janitor" as if it was burning her tongue.

LOL, Nancy spits out lots of words, she has a real hard attack in her inflections. But she has added "janitor" to a spitting word in her vocabulary, yes.

[crimeq]

I think he probably did a very good job at work to be able to stay there for 4 yrs. but it was still beneath what Annie was doing, or capable of doing after she completed her studies. However, he also has some family members employed there in the same area, and they could've facilitated his employment to begin with. I think his motive could be anything from a fantasy about Annie, envisioning himself with her, not liking that she was marrying someone else, or a complete resentment of her professional status vs. his. MOO

I agree with all you say, all of it, but simply cannot believe that a research facility of Yale's caliber would ever keep on board someone in their Animal Research lab anyone who performed sub-standard work for four years. Everything that happens in the lab is critical to the success of the lab research projects. They simply would not have kept someone around who was sub-par when it was Yale's desire to become the pre-eminent medical research facility in the world.

[sunstar]

Uncontrolled anger ... no motive.

She may not have taken it as seriously as he did, may have been somewhat dismissive about his importance of booties, cleanliness, etc. It appears that others have indicated in the past, he made a big deal about booties, implying it wasn't as big of a deal as he made it out to be. Well, years of people dismissing his strict adherence to protocol may have been the catalist for his anger on this particular day.

Just guessing here ... but with the way LE has described it, it seems to fit.

imo

You might just be right and there really wasn't anything in particular about Annie, but just his uncontrollable rage that had been building up over a period of time, and she was there that day. MOO

[Scampi]

It's coming, mark my words, so far it's just unpleasant disposition being reported, but you know how quickly that can turn surly. :tonguewag:

It could be worse, she could have given him a nic name like the tot mom she gave casey anthony. Mouse Master, or something like that....lol.

Lisa Bloom was on with Anderson Cooper and she is not buying the workplace violence notion. She thinks this was a case of raymonds obsession with Annie and her rejection of him. I have to agree.

[sunstar]

I agree with all you say, all of it, but simply cannot believe that a research facility of Yale's caliber would ever keep on board someone in their Animal Research lab anyone who performed sub-standard work for four years. Everything that happens in the lab is critical to the success of the lab research projects. They simply would not have kept someone around who was sub-par when it was Yale's desire to become the pre-eminent medical research facility in the world.

Oh I don't think he performed sub-standard work, but his job wasn't anywhere equivalent with what Annie was doing. That was my point. :smile: MOO

[AnniePie]

as opposed to all dressed in little sun bonnets, in buggies? :tonguewag:

:laugh: That made me LOL!

[KatieLady]

Watching the rerun of NG. I just have one question...why are her twins keeping her up all night? My daughter has 21 month old twins and they have slept thru the night (in the same room) since they were 5 months old :rolleyes:

[crimeq]

From what I understand, the lab was closed for a few days after the discovery of Le's body. I imagine they have enough pressing issues to deal with before they start advertising a job opening, especially in this economy.

Additionally, Clark's job appears to have been unionized, and that's a whole other can of worms. Here's the directly applicable quote:

The president said Clark was suspended from his job and barred from the Yale campus, while his ID no longer allows him access to any Yale building, the procedure for anyone at Yale charged with a major crime.

http://nhregister.com/articles/2009/09/17/news/new_haven/doc4ab2727d6e901745343321.txt

What the article doesn't state is whether or not the position is held until the outcome of the trial. I can't imagine Raymond Clark's going to be returning to Yale anytime soon, but it's unclear how a job search would go about under those circumstances. I'm sure many people are wondering, given this economy.

Note there is a separate union for service and maintenance workers sat Yale, Unite Here Local 35. That's not the union Clark is in, so his work isn't categorized as service or maintenance, but technical (or clerical)--which is Unite Here Local 34. He's not a janitor!

[girlspell]

Is "townie" a term normally given to just anyone who's from the town, or to college students who are from the town? Where I went to school, it was used to describe locals who were attending school there, but I don't recall it being applied to other people in town--businesspersons, housewives, teachers or professors who were local. Don't know for sure, I just never heard it in that context.

As a student, I went to a large university set around a small town. Everyone referred to the residence there as "townies" There some animosity between the groups too. Many of the town people were employed the university, mostly blue color. There was never any social interaction. We only went to the town bars to drink. And even then, we went to separate bars. There were the students, faculty and Townies. I currently work at another university. Same kind of subtle animosity there too. A kind of mini social cast system. The townies hated the students for the most part. In turn, the townies were considered beneath the faculty and students. But the residents needed the school for some kind of money system for the their town. Connectcut is considered a upper class wealthy bedroom state, with commuters to Manhattan. And it is in some parts. But there is a large blue color community there too. :closedeyes:

[crimeq]

It does.

Is that the article you were referring to earlier?

It is, Tacori. Thanks for posting it! I put it in the Links area; hope you don't mind.

[AlicePalace]

Is "townie" a term normally given to just anyone who's from the town, or to college students who are from the town? Where I went to school, it was used to describe locals who were attending school there, but I don't recall it being applied to other people in town--businesspersons, housewives, teachers or professors who were local. Don't know for sure, I just never heard it in that context.

In New Haven (and most of the northeast, in my experience), the term "townie" generally applies to any locals the students may encounter who do not attend (or teach at) the school. It also tends to imply that the person is working-class and somewhat provincial, but not always.

I've never heard the term used in the context you refer to- where it's a local attending the school. In what region of the country did you attend college, if you don't mind me asking?

[impartial]

Watching the rerun of NG. I just have one question...why are her twins keeping her up all night? My daughter has 21 month old twins and they have slept thru the night (in the same room) since they were 5 months old :rolleyes:


My twins were sleeping through the night at 10 weeks. Someone needs to buy her Baby Wise.

It could be her obnoxious voice ... it wouldn't lull me to sleep for sure.

:ohmy:

[crimeq]

It could be worse, she could have given him a nic name like the tot mom she gave casey anthony. Mouse Master, or something like that....lol.

Lisa Bloom was on with Anderson Cooper and she is not buying the workplace violence notion. She thinks this was a case of raymonds obsession with Annie and her rejection of him. I have to agree.

He already has a nickname, RayRay, according to his parents :wink: Maybe Nancy hasn't latched onto that, but she will, IMO. She won't have to make up her own name for him (not to say she won't--it is Nancy, after all!).

I agree that this happened because of Clark's obsession with Annie and her rejection of him. IMO, it's only the details that we don't know yet ....

[crimeq]

Oh I don't think he performed sub-standard work, but his job wasn't anywhere equivalent with what Annie was doing. That was my point. :smile: MOO

It wasn't, but it's being depicted in the media as even less than what it was, and insinuations are made that he didn't do it well.

Yale is not going to like getting the reputation that instead of having qualified animal techs assist in their funded medical research projects, they have poor-performing janitors, no-no-no :no:

LOL, TERRIBLE reputation for a research institution to have!

[AlicePalace]

As a student, I went to a large university set around a small town. Everyone referred to the residence there as "townies" There some animosity between the groups too. Many of the town people were employed the university, mostly blue color. There was never any social interaction. We only went to the town bars to drink. And even then, we went to separate bars. There were the students, faculty and Townies. I currently work at another university. Same kind of subtle animosity there too. A kind of mini social cast system. The townies hated the students for the most part. In turn, the townies were considered beneath the faculty and students. But the residents needed the school for some kind of money system for the their town. Connectcut is considered a upper class wealthy bedroom state, with commuters to Manhattan. And it is in some parts. But there is a large blue color community there too. :closedeyes:

This is spot on to what I know. To use "townie" in an example sentence:

"We went to a bar to meet some guys, but everyone there was a townie."

That's how I've generally heard the word used.

[imc_e]

My twins were sleeping through the night at 10 weeks. Someone needs to buy her Baby Wise.

It could be her obnoxious voice ... it wouldn't lull me to sleep for sure.

:ohmy:


:laugh:

Ya I agree with you and Katie.
My grand daughter is the same age and has been sleeping through the night for at least a year.

When I heard Nancy say that I realized she is embelling the sitch.

I do like hearing about her babies, but its too much, wish she would tone that down, for their sake.

[psbperu]

It could be worse, she could have given him a nic name like the tot mom she gave casey anthony. Mouse Master, or something like that....lol.

Lisa Bloom was on with Anderson Cooper and she is not buying the workplace violence notion. She thinks this was a case of raymonds obsession with Annie and her rejection of him. I have to agree.


Thanks Scampi for posting this, I missed it tonite. As I have stated before, it's been my opinion too that she rejected his advances.

[AlicePalace]

My twins were sleeping through the night at 10 weeks. Someone needs to buy her Baby Wise.

It could be her obnoxious voice ... it wouldn't lull me to sleep for sure.

:ohmy:

Maybe she creeps up on these kids and seethes, "You'd better not grow up to be a JANITOR!"

[gordon24fan]

Welcome to the boards!

I think we all have people in our lives who think we're addicted. And so what if we are! LOL :tonguewag:

I know but got to keep my relashionship healty so yes got to hide some things from the b\f like this, not that im doing anything wrong but to him this addiction is not healty for me but i think it is like survivor said it could be a worst addiction :thumbsup:

[gordon24fan]

hah! addicted already! lots of us have significant others who think we're addicted and just ... don't ... get it. LOL.

But my BF is addicted to playing online Hearts with good players all over the world, and I don't get that either.

mine is addicted to video games (he's a computer progamming engineer for Ubisoft) actually i am too come to think of if so thats 2 addictions for me :huh: oh no

[sunstar]

It wasn't, but it's being depicted in the media as even less than what it was, and insinuations are made that he didn't do it well.

Yale is not going to like getting the reputation that instead of having qualified animal techs assist in their funded medical research projects, they have poor-performing janitors, no-no-no :no:

LOL, TERRIBLE reputation for a research institution to have!
I'm not agreeing with the media either. This is one of the top research labs in the country! MOO

[crimeq]

As a student, I went to a large university set around a small town. Everyone referred to the residence there as "townies" There some animosity between the groups too. Many of the town people were employed the university, mostly blue color. There was never any social interaction. We only went to the town bars to drink. And even then, we went to separate bars. There were the students, faculty and Townies. I currently work at another university. Same kind of subtle animosity there too. A kind of mini social cast system. The townies hated the students for the most part. In turn, the townies were considered beneath the faculty and students. But the residents needed the school for some kind of money system for the their town. Connectcut is considered a upper class wealthy bedroom state, with commuters to Manhattan. And it is in some parts. But there is a large blue color community there too. :closedeyes:

Maybe it's been too long and I just don't remember :scared: I do remember the college kids who were "townies" being considered less-than.

You describe the kind of dependency well, though, the town being dependent on the college/university and the animosity that goes along with that.

Yale must be a predominant employer in New Haven--I don't know what other industry they have, but Yale is huge and requires so many employees to run it.

[crimeq]

In New Haven (and most of the northeast, in my experience), the term "townie" generally applies to any locals the students may encounter who do not attend (or teach at) the school. It also tends to imply that the person is working-class and somewhat provincial, but not always.

I've never heard the term used in the context you refer to- where it's a local attending the school. In what region of the country did you attend college, if you don't mind me asking?

That particular college (I went to two) was located in a Mason-Dixon line state, probably equally northern-southern.

[crimeq]

My twins were sleeping through the night at 10 weeks. Someone needs to buy her Baby Wise.

It could be her obnoxious voice ... it wouldn't lull me to sleep for sure.

:ohmy:
:w00t: the thought of her reading bedtime stories or singing bedtime lullabies! Eeeek! Tears and tantrums for sure.