9/16--OREGON v Worthington (taped)

[RootBeer]

A crew from TruTV is documenting the faith-healing trial of Carl and Raylene Worthington in Oregon City
By Kevin Harden

Pamplin Media Group, Jul 8, 2009, Updated Jul 8, 2009

Failing to seek help
Oregon City’s Raylene, 26, and Carl Brent Worthington, 29, both face second-degree manslaughter and second-degree criminal mistreatment charges because prosecutors say they didn’t seek medical help for their ailing 15-month-old Ava as her condition worsened in late February and early March last year.

Ava died shortly after 7 p.m. March 2, 2008, in her parents’ bed. The medical examiner said the cause of death was sepsis, pneumonia and possible complications from a benign cyst hygroma on the right side of her neck that had grown to about the size of a man’s wallet and was choking off her ability to eat and breathe.

Instead of taking Ava to a doctor, the Worthingtons relied on prayer, fasting and Biblical “laying on of hands.” They are members of the Followers of Christ Church in Oregon City, which believes in faith healing over medical treatment.

Prosecutors said the Worthingtons were negligent in their daughter’s death and were charged with the crimes because, since 1999 Oregon law requires parents to seek medical attention for their ailing children, even those who usually rely on faith healing. Their case is the first to be brought under the state law that is seen at odds with religious freedom.

Their trial began two weeks ago when a 12-person jury was selected. The presentation of evidence started last week, with prosecution witnesses painting a picture for the jury of a sickly, malnourished child who might have survived the onslaught of illness had she received medical care.

Defense attorneys countered that Ava Worthington was a reasonably healthy, growing child who suffered a fast-moving “deadly duo” of sepsis and pneumonia in her last hours. The defense, which claims Ava would not have survived the deadly illnesses even if she had received immediate medical care, will present its case after prosecutors have concluded their evidence.


http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/print_story.php?story_id=124707361610180700

[RootBeer]

July 27, 2009

http://ericback.wordpress.com/2009/07/27/followers-of-christ-verdict-in-oregon-city/

[RootBeer]

The church and prosecutors will meet again in court early next year.
Raylene Worthington's parents, Jeff and Marci Beagley, go on trial
in January. They are charged with criminally negligent homicide in the
death of their 16-year-old son, Neil Beagley, who died last June of an
untreated urinary tract blockage.

[mickey mouse]

Parents Charged in Baby’s Death I don't what to say i am just so upset . the state of oregan need to lock the worthington up and throw away the key, That is not god he does not operate like that . And she is pregant again, .

[Shlohe]

Faith needs to be tempered by common sense. These family members are guilty of negligence. Haven't seen much of this trial it's true but did hear it said that some members of their religious group have sought out medical help. Modern medicine saves lives - wouldn't God intend that for all humankind?

Sharon in E. Boston, MA

[PaperMoon]

I don't what to say i am just so upset . the state of oregan need to lock the worthington up and throw away the key, That is not god he does not operate like that . And she is pregant again, .

Exactly! I agree! I was flipping channels and came across this case and I just had to watch it and I could not believe what I was seeing! that was cruelty and murder, that poor baby suffered and was sick for a long time. That is crazy how they can watch their little baby sick like that and not get her help. :sad: How could they watch her day in and day out with that huge bowling ball lump on her neck and not get her help. That was crazy. I believe in God but I also know that God put doctors on this planet and gave them the wisdom to treat illnesses so that people can get well through doctors! What that couple did was unbelievable. :sad:

[PaperMoon]

The church and prosecutors will meet again in court early next year.
Raylene Worthington's parents, Jeff and Marci Beagley, go on trial
in January. They are charged with criminally negligent homicide in the
death of their 16-year-old son, Neil Beagley, who died last June of an
untreated urinary tract blockage.

Really? OMG! They are all nuts. That is sad.

[stevielew]

Parents Charged in Baby’s Death


This is crazy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They lost their child. Of course they are sad. If I took my child to get their vacines and they got autism or sick and died would I be a fault. This is a nation of freedom of religion. I don't believe that way but for them to do what they know and believe is not wrong. That would be like us saying taking your child to the doctor to get an antibotic is wrong. The child develops an immunity to antibotics and can't fight any thing on their own they die are we killers. No we are doing what we know and believe. They believe in God. What is this world coming to really. We aren't in a dictatorship, We are in the US and this country was built on freedom of religion. I am personally not someone who believes that but they have been raised with that. It' not like they just started that religion to hide behind the death of their child, they have generations of that.

[CRRJJ]

This is sickening. No one has more faith in God than I do, but for goodness sake there comes a time when you need to turn to the medical people for help. Otherwise, why would there be Drs. if not in God's plan.
I guess if an adult chooses to skip the medical profession, that's their own business, but to keep a very ill child from help is not right.
The one thing that I would like to have one of them explain to me: If you don't need Drs. for illnesses, why have you hired attorneys to represent you in court? Why not let God represent you? Their thinking makes absolutely no sense to me. :confused:

[Constance]

This is sickening. No one has more faith in God than I do, but for goodness sake there comes a time when you need to turn to the medical people for help. Otherwise, why would there be Drs. if not in God's plan.
I guess if an adult chooses to skip the medical profession, that's their own business, but to keep a very ill child from help is not right.
The one thing that I would like to have one of them explain to me: If you don't need Drs. for illnesses, why have you hired attorneys to represent you in court? Why not let God represent you? Their thinking makes absolutely no sense to me. :confused:

WOW, that's a powerful post! ["If you don't need Drs. for illnesses, why have you hired attorneys to represent you in court?"]

Good question and well said.

[hmc718]

Does this family think the whole world is insane? All their testimony made them seem to be extremely ignorant; of rearing children. I just hope this doesn't happened to any of their other children. The lump obviously hampered her life. That had to have been a horrible death. My heart goes out for poor Ava. Only constellation is she doesn't have to live with such an awful family & she's in a much better place. How could a family have kept buying food for Ava when it was obvious, she wasn't eating it. Of course she was playing with her bottle. She was starving to death. The Aunt saying she was buying age appropriate clothes & they fit is ludicrous. The entire family needs to get their head & eyes examed. I feel everyone has the right to religious freedom. In this case I feel they should have sought medical intervention. If they had it's clear Ava would still be alive. :sad:

[shelly]

How much medical training did these people that were "laying hands" have?
The good lord gives us the brains, ability and free will to educate ourselves.
God helps those who help themselves.
Maybe she seemed to be getting better because GOD was saw that the parents he blessed with this child, whose care he put this precious child's life in was not going to get help for the child and take care of her so he was giving that poor suffering baby some relief.
The medical community chooses to use the brains GOD has given them to help others.
I am outraged that they watched that child suffer and die. They are barbarians.
Is their religion preaching this crap so the congregation is not spending money on medical care that could be going to the church?
They are a group of smiling idiots !!!!!!!!!

[shelly]

WOW, that's a powerful post! ["If you don't need Drs. for illnesses, why have you hired attorneys to represent you in court?"]

Good question and well said.

WELL SAID !!!! They kept a child from receiving help but was quick to get help for themselves.

[shelly]

#1

This is crazy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They lost their child. Of course they are sad. If I took my child to get their vacines and they got autism or sick and died would I be a fault. This is a nation of freedom of religion. I don't believe that way but for them to do what they know and believe is not wrong. That would be like us saying taking your child to the doctor to get an antibotic is wrong. The child develops an immunity to antibotics and can't fight any thing on their own they die are we killers. No we are doing what we know and believe. They believe in God. What is this world coming to really. We aren't in a dictatorship, We are in the US and this country was built on freedom of religion. I am personally not someone who believes that but they have been raised with that. It' not like they just started that religion to hide behind the death of their child, they have generations of that.

REALLY ??? Because something has gone on for generations we are suppose to accept it, embrace it, stand by and do nothing and let it continue? Slavery? Womens Rights? Civil Rights? With that kind of thinking we may as well be in a dictatorship. What is this world coming to, because people are expressing their thoughts? But it's okay to sit by and watch a child suffer and die? I don't believe in stealing or lying either, but if my child was suffering and dying you can bet your butt I would lie and steal!!! I am sick about that poor baby. Wasn't enough that she was suffering with illness, she was starving on top of it! I will pray for you. My GOD is a loving, forgiving GOD.

[CRRJJ]

well, shoot!! one of the aunts to the little girl testified how their practice of 'hands on' healing works. The prosecutor asked her if she had ever been to a dr. or had any type of medical assistance. Her answer was 'No'.
However, she mentioned that she had 2 wisdom teeth left Where did the other ones go and who pulled them? Rotted away? :sneaky:

[CRRJJ]

REALLY ??? Because something has gone on for generations we are suppose to accept it, embrace it, stand by and do nothing and let it continue? Slavery? Womens Rights? Civil Rights? With that kind of thinking we may as well be in a dictatorship. What is this world coming to, because people are expressing their thoughts? But it's okay to sit by and watch a child suffer and die? I don't believe in stealing or lying either, but if my child was suffering and dying you can bet your butt I would lie and steal!!! I am sick about that poor baby. Wasn't enough that she was suffering with illness, she was starving on top of it! I will pray for you. My GOD is a loving, forgiving GOD.

Shelly, I couldn't agree with you more. Of course God can heal and I believe he has given the medical profession the ability to also do that. They are here for a reason. However, if they have gone as far as they they are able to do, I truly believe prayer can move mountains. I just pray to God for giving us people who can help us when they're needed.

[CRRJJ]

REALLY ??? Because something has gone on for generations we are suppose to accept it, embrace it, stand by and do nothing and let it continue? Slavery? Womens Rights? Civil Rights? With that kind of thinking we may as well be in a dictatorship. What is this world coming to, because people are expressing their thoughts? But it's okay to sit by and watch a child suffer and die? I don't believe in stealing or lying either, but if my child was suffering and dying you can bet your butt I would lie and steal!!! I am sick about that poor baby. Wasn't enough that she was suffering with illness, she was starving on top of it! I will pray for you. My GOD is a loving, forgiving GOD.

Shelly, I couldn't agree with you more. Of course God can heal and I believe he has given the medical profession the ability to also do that. They are here for a reason. However, if they have gone as far as they they are able to do, I truly believe prayer can move mountains. I just pray to God for giving us people who can help us when they're needed.

[CRRJJ]

oops!! didn't mean to double post. sorry. :rolleyes: :blushing:

[ExArkie]

I think this OLD, OLD joke is appropriate to this case. I believe modern medicine and the doctors who save us are gifts from God.
_______________________________

It had been raining for days and days, and a terrible flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.

As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.

Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

###

[CRRJJ]

[

Oh for Heaven's sake, absolutely perfect comparison, but they won't want to understand it, unfortunately Thanks for sharing this with us. :thumbsup:

[PaperMoon]

This is sickening. No one has more faith in God than I do, but for goodness sake there comes a time when you need to turn to the medical people for help. Otherwise, why would there be Drs. if not in God's plan.
I guess if an adult chooses to skip the medical profession, that's their own business, but to keep a very ill child from help is not right.
The one thing that I would like to have one of them explain to me: If you don't need Drs. for illnesses, why have you hired attorneys to represent you in court? Why not let God represent you? Their thinking makes absolutely no sense to me. :confused:

That's a good point! What's the difference between hiring a lawyer and going to a doctor, yeah why don't they rely on prayer to keep their butts out of jail. I believe in God too but God does not like foolishness and it was just foolish and crazy for them to not take the child to a doctor. God gives us all common sense!

[PaperMoon]

Does this family think the whole world is insane? All their testimony made them seem to be extremely ignorant; of rearing children. I just hope this doesn't happened to any of their other children. The lump obviously hampered her life. That had to have been a horrible death. My heart goes out for poor Ava. Only constellation is she doesn't have to live with such an awful family & she's in a much better place. How could a family have kept buying food for Ava when it was obvious, she wasn't eating it. Of course she was playing with her bottle. She was starving to death. The Aunt saying she was buying age appropriate clothes & they fit is ludicrous. The entire family needs to get their head & eyes examed. I feel everyone has the right to religious freedom. In this case I feel they should have sought medical intervention. If they had it's clear Ava would still be alive. :sad:

Exactly! That baby had been sick for a long time! She was only 26 inches long??? A newborn is 21 inches! She only weighed 16 pounds??? Some newborns weigh 10 pounds! And she was over a year old. That lump on her neck was keeping her from eating because she could not swallow, poor thing. The one aunt tried to say she was active because she rolled around on the bed??? That's not active! That's a poor sick child trying to get comfortable! They all sound crazy as I don't know what! They knew she was getting worse because they kept calling for more and more all night prayer vigils. Wow I didn't think people still did things like this family did in the 21st century. :sad: Even Amish people go to doctors.

[PaperMoon]

But it's okay to sit by and watch a child suffer and die? I don't believe in stealing or lying either, but if my child was suffering and dying you can bet your butt I would lie and steal!!! I am sick about that poor baby. Wasn't enough that she was suffering with illness, she was starving on top of it! I will pray for you. My GOD is a loving, forgiving GOD.

Very good point! Most people would do things they don't normally believe in to save their child's life! If they believe in God they should also believe in forgiveness and could have just taken her to a doctor and then ask forgiveness if they thought taking her to a doctor was so wrong. It isn't wrong but if they think it is they should have just done it anyway to save her life then just repent afterwards if that's what it takes to ease their minds. At least their child would still be alive. Their beliefs are no escuse.

[PaperMoon]

That's good, I like that! :thumbup:

[lindakay]

i checked out this church (cult) Followers of Christ Church, after watching some of the coverage on IN SESSION. unbelievable! in the last 10 years 3 women have died while giving birth because they don't have doctors or any prenatal care, their cemetary is full of young children. in fact the Worthingtons have a grandfather that left this church years ago and still prays the rest of his family would get out-- they don't have a minister or leader in charge since the death of their "leader" in (i think it said) 1989. a sixteen year old died last year because of a urinary track infection that went untreated. some members sneak out of town to go to doctors, so church members won't find out. this is a cult and Oregon needs to change laws protecting religion over the lives of inocent children.

[dref99]

I think this OLD, OLD joke is appropriate to this case. I believe modern medicine and the doctors who save us are gifts from God.
_______________________________

snipped for space



I liked your old old joke :smile: - but also would like to mention that I believe modern medicine and doctors are a gift of science and individuals who believe in same, making medicine their life work. That any parent could knowingly deny their child access to some of this science is not a parent that I have ever known.

jmo

[CRRJJ]

I liked your old old joke :smile: - but also would like to mention that I believe modern medicine and doctors are a gift of science and individuals who believe in same, making medicine their life work. That any parent could knowingly deny their child access to some of this science is not a parent that I have ever known.

jmo

You know, some just don't get it. I believe God works through drs. hands, our hands, and if you think about it, isn't that why we , (and they) have pastors, ministers, priests, etc. who are doing God's work? They are doing God's work by teaching us about Him. So, what? we don't need them either??
Someone send them a boat!!!

[ExArkie]

Do you have a link or author for this??? Advise or I'll have to delete.

I think this is so old - just changed to include modern helicopters and motorboats that no one knows where it comes from; but, I'll check.

checked and all I can find is "Author Unknown." Wish I had written it - really good stuff/moral!!

[ExArkie]

I did find this "joke" on several different links. Here is one of them - is this OK?

http://mckaysblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/recognizing-my-own-rowboat.html

[kjm]

This is sickening. No one has more faith in God than I do, but for goodness sake there comes a time when you need to turn to the medical people for help. Otherwise, why would there be Drs. if not in God's plan.
I guess if an adult chooses to skip the medical profession, that's their own business, but to keep a very ill child from help is not right.
The one thing that I would like to have one of them explain to me: If you don't need Drs. for illnesses, why have you hired attorneys to represent you in court? Why not let God represent you? Their thinking makes absolutely no sense to me. :confused:

ITA and well said!

[kjm]

i checked out this church (cult) Followers of Christ Church, after watching some of the coverage on IN SESSION. unbelievable! in the last 10 years 3 women have died while giving birth because they don't have doctors or any prenatal care, their cemetary is full of young children. in fact the Worthingtons have a grandfather that left this church years ago and still prays the rest of his family would get out-- they don't have a minister or leader in charge since the death of their "leader" in (i think it said) 1989. a sixteen year old died last year because of a urinary track infection that went untreated. some members sneak out of town to go to doctors, so church members won't find out. this is a cult and Oregon needs to change laws protecting religion over the lives of inocent children.

Can anyone answer these questions:

Are the grandparents going on trial in Jan 2010 for allowing their 16 year old to die? (Yay, the State will get another shot at it...maybe will pick a jury this time who doesn't have their heads where the sun don't shine!)

Did this same couple have a child who died in 2001? Any info on this if it's true.

Is it true that Raylene (sp.?) is already pregnant again?

Thanks for answers to any of the above.

[sofiesmom]

I think this OLD, OLD joke is appropriate to this case. I believe modern medicine and the doctors who save us are gifts from God.
_______________________________

It had been raining for days and days, and a terrible flood had come over the land. The waters rose so high that one man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.

As the waters rose higher and higher, a man in a rowboat appeared, and told him to get in. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the rowboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and suddenly a speedboat appeared. "Climb in!" shouted a man in the boat. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the man in the speedboat went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters continued to rise. A helicopter appeared and over the loudspeaker, the pilot announced he would lower a rope to the man on the roof. "No," replied the man on the roof. "I have faith in the Lord; the Lord will save me." So the helicopter went away. The man on the roof prayed for God to save him.

The waters rose higher and higher, and eventually they rose so high that the man on the roof was washed away, and alas, the poor man drowned.

Upon arriving in heaven, the man marched straight over to God. "Heavenly Father," he said, "I had faith in you, I prayed to you to save me, and yet you did nothing. Why?" God gave him a puzzled look, and replied "I sent you two boats and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

###I was just sitting here trying to remember the particulars of that story when I saw this post. It's exactly how I think of this case. However, I think the defense is doing a great job.

I finally broke down and went to worthingtondefense.info. I had sort of guessed the verdict, but am not sure that I agree with it.

[ransomcat]

Anyone know if little Ava was born at home or in the hospital?