Caylee Anthony 9/14

[cassidy]

Hope I am doing this right :)

[bchand]

Perfect Cassidy !!

Let's hope we hear something this week from Judge Strickland about the date for the check fraud trial. Looking forward to that.

[desmom]

Great Job Cassidy!

Tonight at 11: Weakness in Anthony Case
http://www.wesh.com/video/20899908/index.html

[marshmallow]

mythoughts on the chloroform searches:
were the searches around the same time Ricardo put up that stupid chloroform thing on his myspace (or whichever social thing it was)?


that question has been nagging me a little. did Casey, not the smartest 5th grader in the class, have to research it to understand his pathetic pic?


I just finished reading Morgans latest court fiing. That will have an interesting turn out. I admit, I am far more interested in the criminal case in terms of court decisions but that'll be a good one too.

[really3997]

Great Job Cassidy!

Tonight at 11: Weakness in Anthony Case
http://www.wesh.com/video/20899908/index.html

Morning Des, can you post what the weakness is I am at work and am blocked from the sites.

Thanks

[breezie]

Morning Des, can you post what the weakness is I am at work and am blocked from the sites.

Thanks

Richard Hornsby doesn't believe that the State has proven that an accidental death did not occur and that the only answer was intentional murder. I guess the duct tape doesn't prove that to him.

[Tia]

Morning Des, can you post what the weakness is I am at work and am blocked from the sites.

Thanks

Me too-I'm blocked as well.

Good morning all!

[breezie]

I'm interested in the civil case because it's giant thorn in Cindy's side. Anything that irritates her is OK in my book. :D

It will be interesting to see how Judge Ego reacts to perjury in his court. Testifying differently under oath is not usually taken well, but can Ego put aside his..er ego and *good judgement*?

[Rapunzel]

There is no evidence to support intentional death???

You can't be serious???

Oh yeah...it's quite normal to die with duct tape over your mouth!!!:cursing:

[really3997]

Richard Hornsby doesn't believe that the State has proven that an accidental death did not occur and that the only answer was intentional murder. I guess the duct tape doesn't prove that to him.

I am betting there is more that they are holding on too that will. JMO.
If you notice anytime the news start going with storys that Casey will get off. BAM. more documents to turn it back to Casey will get DP.

Again JMO but after a year or so it seems thats what happens.

[really3997]

There is no evidence to support intentional death???

You can't be serious???

Oh yeah...it's quite normal to die with duct tape over your mouth!!!:cursing:

REALLY Rapunzel how many times have you accidentially duck tape someones mouth. 2/3x It happens all the time in FL..:tonguewag:

[need2no]

mythoughts on the chloroform searches:
were the searches around the same time Ricardo put up that stupid chloroform thing on his myspace (or whichever social thing it was)?


that question has been nagging me a little. did Casey, not the smartest 5th grader in the class, have to research it to understand his pathetic pic?


I just finished reading Morgans latest court fiing. That will have an interesting turn out. I admit, I am far more interested in the criminal case in terms of court decisions but that'll be a good one too.

Baez wants prosecutors’ information about ex-boyfriend Ricardo Morales, who has been questioned by detectives at least twice. The ex-boyfriend allegedly posted a picture on MySpace that showed a man and woman with the title “win her over with chloroform.”
Morales told detectives he posted the picture on his MySpace page around the beginning of 2008, before someone searched for “chloroform” Anthony’s home computer.


http://kreuzer33.wordpress.com/2009/01/25/casey-anthony-baez-requests-more-information-about-ricardo-morales/

[Rapunzel]

REALLY Rapunzel how many times have you accidentially duck tape someones mouth. 2/3x It happens all the time in FL..:tonguewag:


Oh now I understand...don't live in Florida...so there ya go...how would I know??? So sorry for my stupidity...:tonguewag:

[desmom]

Desmom-

I was looking for a file in the Links last night. The old Links stop on 11/6/08 and the Links Page 2 starts on 4/15/09. Any idea where the missing pieces might be?

Links from Caylee Anthony Closed Threads http://boards.insessiontrials.com/forumdisplay.php?f=587

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=338043 begins on 7/22/08 and was locked on 11/06/08.

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=344981 begins on 11/06/08 and was locked on 4/18/09.

Link from the Caylee Anthony, 2, Murder Open Threads http://boards.insessiontrials.com/forumdisplay.php?f=551

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=352149 begins on 4/14/09 and is still ongoing.

[desmom]

I am betting there is more that they are holding on too that will. JMO.
If you notice anytime the news start going with storys that Casey will get off. BAM. more documents to turn it back to Casey will get DP.

Again JMO but after a year or so it seems thats what happens.

WESH is supposed to be more tonight at 11.

[need2no]

For those who can't watch...from this link Tonight at 11: Weakness in Anthony Case
http://www.wesh.com/video/20899908/index.html

They are saying from a legal standpoint it's not casey's job to prove her innocence. There is a big hole in the State's case if they want to get the death penalty. The State has nothing which precludes this being an accidental death and points only to intentional death. Richard Hornsby is saying the State must fill this hole if they want to convince the jury to give casey the death penalty for casey.

More tonight at 11 on wesh.

[Sun]

Perfect Cassidy !!

Let's hope we hear something this week from Judge Strickland about the date for the check fraud trial. Looking forward to that.

I'm hoping for this also. Soon! I assume that there will be a pre-trial conference set, in addition to a trial date. (and I expect that the defense will later on will delay as much as Judge Strickland will allow, and the trial date may get pushed back a bit).

And, where are all those Motions that Lyon has talked about filing after Labor Day? It's now close to mid-September.

[desmom]

Thank you! :seeya: Apparently I didn't look closely enough.

YW. :seeya:

The dates confuse me every time I go to the closed threads and I have to stop and think about it.

[Sun]

For those who can't watch...from this link Tonight at 11: Weakness in Anthony Case
http://www.wesh.com/video/20899908/index.html

They are saying from a legal standpoint it's not casey's job to prove her innocence. There is a big hole in the State's case if they want to get the death penalty. The State has nothing which precludes this being an accidental death and points only to intentional death. Richard Hornsby is saying the State must fill this hole if they want to convince the jury to give casey the death penalty for casey.

More tonight at 11 on wesh.

As a common sense sort of person, the fact that Casey didn't report Caylee's death is an indicator to me that Caylee didn't die accidentally. 31 days. And even then, everything that she told LE was all lies. IMO, Casey is a huge danger to society.

[Tia]

As a common sense sort of person, the fact that Casey didn't report Caylee's death is an indicator to me that Caylee didn't die accidentally. 31 days. And even then, everything that she told LE was all lies. IMO, Casey is a huge danger to society.

I think most jurors would think the same thing. Her behavior afterwards only reinforces it, unless you believe the "ugly coping" theory-:rolleyes:

[need2no]

As a common sense sort of person, the fact that Casey didn't report Caylee's death is an indicator to me that Caylee didn't die accidentally. 31 days. And even then, everything that she told LE was all lies. IMO, Casey is a huge danger to society.

I agree completely Sun. But let's say the argument could be made that casey flipped out after an accidental death, feared telling her parents so she foolishly did not report it and hid the body. Well then how do they explain casey not going into depression, holding herself up at TonE's or whereever, shunning her friends and shutting down all her social activities. The girl never skipped a beat from manicures to tattoos to text messages to partying hardy. If there was evidence she secluded herself and acted abnormally for even a few weeks then maybe I could consider an accident occurred. And Lord help me if I hear anybody say.... we all grieve differently, or she was ugly coping. That's BS.

I don't think a jury would be fooled by such nonsense.

[msgatorslayer]

For those who can't watch...from this link Tonight at 11: Weakness in Anthony Case
http://www.wesh.com/video/20899908/index.html

They are saying from a legal standpoint it's not casey's job to prove her innocence. There is a big hole in the State's case if they want to get the death penalty. The State has nothing which precludes this being an accidental death and points only to intentional death. Richard Hornsby is saying the State must fill this hole if they want to convince the jury to give casey the death penalty for casey.

More tonight at 11 on wesh.

Right! :rolleyes:

Searching the net for 'missing children', 'shovels', and 'chloroform' is just a coincidence.

The jury will see that even though Casey had a 'missing child', borrowed a 'shovel' from the neighbor, and had 'chloroform' along with a decomposing body in her trunk, that there was some kind of accident that caused a "Terminal event' to Caylee.

So, Casey just did what any Mother of the Year would do. Slap some duct tape on her only childs mouth, triple bag her, and toss her in the woods by her house.

Yeah, an accident. I see it all so clearly now that the defense has pointed it out to me.:rolleyes:

[Piratexox]

Good Morning All - As you can tell this is my 1st post here. I've been reading other boards and felt this is the best for me. Lots of good, informative posters here. I believe I've read and heard every thing about this case.
I do have questions that you might be able to answer though. Any one up for them?

[Sun]

I agree completely Sun. But let's say the argument could be made that casey flipped out after an accidental death, feared telling her parents so she foolishly did not report it and hid the body. Well then how do they explain casey not going into depression, holding herself up at TonE's or whereever, shunning her friends and shutting down all her social activities. The girl never skipped a beat from manicures to tattoos to text messages to partying hardy. If there was evidence she secluded herself and acted abnormally for even a few weeks then maybe I could consider an accident occurred. And Lord help me if I hear anybody say.... we all grieve differently, or she was ugly coping. That's BS.

I don't think a jury would be fooled by such nonsense.

IMO, Casey began "celebrating" her newfound freedom. And, lying to everyone about just "where" Caylee was. Getting a tattoo "beautiful life." Casey was responsible for Caylee. If there was indeed an accident, then Casey was responsible for reporting it. Which she did not. Even when given plenty of opportunity to do so. ....it's now far too late for her to go down that path with any hope of success.

[breezie]

Good Morning All - As you can tell this is my 1st post here. I've been reading other boards and felt this is the best for me. Lots of good, informative posters here. I believe I've read and heard every thing about this case.
I do have questions that you might be able to answer though. Any one up for them?

sure! I'm sure someone will know or point you to the right documents.

welcome! :seeya:

[spiritwolf46]

Good Morning All - As you can tell this is my 1st post here. I've been reading other boards and felt this is the best for me. Lots of good, informative posters here. I believe I've read and heard every thing about this case.
I do have questions that you might be able to answer though. Any one up for them?

Welcome to the board, Piratexox! This is the best board ever with so many wonderful posters. I hope you like it and stay. :)

[really3997]

Oh now I understand...don't live in Florida...so there ya go...how would I know??? So sorry for my stupidity...:tonguewag:

Personally I thought duck tape was a Wisconsin thing but who Knew:w00t:

[Piratexox]

Thank you all. Here's what I'd like to know:
1). Why don't we have access to Lenamon's 30 page filing to remove the DP? If it's not sealed it should be available through the Sunshine Law, correct?
2). I noticed in last weeks hearings that on Tuesday The Judge "didn't get his exercise jumping to conclusions" yet on Wednesday he "prepares himself to be 3 or 4 steps ahead" of the attorneys. Why the over night change?
Thanks - Pirate

[KittyMom]

For those who can't watch...from this link Tonight at 11: Weakness in Anthony Case
http://www.wesh.com/video/20899908/index.html

They are saying from a legal standpoint it's not casey's job to prove her innocence. There is a big hole in the State's case if they want to get the death penalty. The State has nothing which precludes this being an accidental death and points only to intentional death. Richard Hornsby is saying the State must fill this hole if they want to convince the jury to give casey the death penalty for casey.

More tonight at 11 on wesh.

I believe the SA can cover that hole with a strip of Henkle duct tape with the outline of a heart sticker and a clump of Caylee's hair and BAM we have a death sentence.

[Rapunzel]

Well it will be interesting what AL will do...she said this is not a DP case...who decides that??? Will she make a motion to the judge to take this off the table??? Then Stan the Man will decide??? I think we need one of our legal eagles...

[jose]

Good Morning All - As you can tell this is my 1st post here. I've been reading other boards and felt this is the best for me. Lots of good, informative posters here. I believe I've read and heard every thing about this case.
I do have questions that you might be able to answer though. Any one up for them?

Ahoy Pirate ask away, I agree there are many informed people on this board. But caution, Cindy will be most displeased to see a new FLB here, George may ram your vessel with his boat.

[need2no]

IMO, Casey began "celebrating" her newfound freedom. And, lying to everyone about just "where" Caylee was. Getting a tattoo "beautiful life." Casey was responsible for Caylee. If there was indeed an accident, then Casey was responsible for reporting it. Which she did not. Even when given plenty of opportunity to do so. ....it's now far too late for her to go down that path with any hope of success.

Indeed, too late to unring that bell, casey left a trail of breadcrumbs behind with all her documented activities including text, MySpace, pics, tattoo, and her out-of-this-world lies and behavior.

[Barbara fl.]

For those who can't watch...from this link Tonight at 11: Weakness in Anthony Case
http://www.wesh.com/video/20899908/index.html

They are saying from a legal standpoint it's not casey's job to prove her innocence. There is a big hole in the State's case if they want to get the death penalty. The State has nothing which precludes this being an accidental death and points only to intentional death. Richard Hornsby is saying the State must fill this hole if they want to convince the jury to give casey the death penalty for casey.

More tonight at 11 on wesh.


Good morning everyone,

That is correct, the state must prove that the murder was a heinous act...What is not correct, or only that individuals opinion is that the state wont be able to prove this...It has already been established by several scientific experts which included (Dr. Purper) that there would have been absolutely no reason for Caylees mouth and nose to be covered with tape AFTER death....that fluids do not drain from these areas...therefore the only possible reason for the tape to have been placed there was for the kill itself....

Now the defense might get Henry Lee or Dr. Baden to argue this...but I doubt that it will stand up....And once it has been proven that the tape must have been put there prior to Caylee dying would be proof enough that it was infact a heinous murder that would carry a death sentence....

Now, I personally do not think that the DP will be upheld by the court...she will probably get LWOP....and the reason that I say this is because Cindy will have alot to say in this direction...she was the one to call 911 which caused her daughter to be arrested and eventually be charged with murder...and I really do not think that a judge would put this on a mother who lost her granddaughter and now be responsible for her daughter being given the DP....I just can not see it happening....But I could be wrong....

[Barbara fl.]

I agree completely Sun. But let's say the argument could be made that casey flipped out after an accidental death, feared telling her parents so she foolishly did not report it and hid the body. Well then how do they explain casey not going into depression, holding herself up at TonE's or whereever, shunning her friends and shutting down all her social activities. The girl never skipped a beat from manicures to tattoos to text messages to partying hardy. If there was evidence she secluded herself and acted abnormally for even a few weeks then maybe I could consider an accident occurred. And Lord help me if I hear anybody say.... we all grieve differently, or she was ugly coping. That's BS.

I don't think a jury would be fooled by such nonsense.


Good post and all true.....

[Jeepers]

Thank you all. Here's what I'd like to know:
1). Why don't we have access to Lenamon's 30 page filing to remove the DP? If it's not sealed it should be available through the Sunshine Law, correct?
2). I noticed in last weeks hearings that on Tuesday The Judge "didn't get his exercise jumping to conclusions" yet on Wednesday he "prepares himself to be 3 or 4 steps ahead" of the attorneys. Why the over night change?
Thanks - Pirate

Good morning Welcome!

Here is a news link talking about the 30 page doc. I have not found the actual doc. yet.
Hope some of the information in the article helps to define what he did actually write about.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey0608nov06,0,7406889.story

[Piratexox]

Ahoy Pirate ask away, I agree there are many informed people on this board. But caution, Cindy will be most displeased to see a new FLB here, George may ram your vessel with his boat.

Ha I've seen that tub 1 time in the water. They haven't used it YET to help find any one. I hope the IRS seizes it when they get audited.

[Piratexox]

Good morning Welcome!

Here is a news link talking about the 30 page doc. I have not found the actual doc. yet.
Hope some of the information in the article helps to define what he did actually write about.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey0608nov06,0,7406889.story

TY. I've read this. I was hoping to see the actual motion. BTW where is the motion Tenis filed that the Judge was discussing off record on Wednesday?

[Jeepers]

http://mamanetbebe.blogspot.com/2008/11/caylee-anthony-update-6-november.html

This talks more about the 30 page document and about middle ways down it says this was not made public.
So, the document as of now is not available to us.

[legalmania]

This is what the state has to prove can they fill in all the pieces of the puzzle. Only time will tell.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/criminal-overview/common-defenses-to-criminal-charges.html

[Barbara fl.]

Right! :rolleyes:

Searching the net for 'missing children', 'shovels', and 'chloroform' is just a coincidence.

The jury will see that even though Casey had a 'missing child', borrowed a 'shovel' from the neighbor, and had 'chloroform' along with a decomposing body in her trunk, that there was some kind of accident that caused a "Terminal event' to Caylee.

So, Casey just did what any Mother of the Year would do. Slap some duct tape on her only childs mouth, triple bag her, and toss her in the woods by her house.

Yeah, an accident. I see it all so clearly now that the defense has pointed it out to me.:rolleyes:


:lol: I sure hope the prosecution is as swift as you are.....

[breezie]

Thank you all. Here's what I'd like to know:
1). Why don't we have access to Lenamon's 30 page filing to remove the DP? If it's not sealed it should be available through the Sunshine Law, correct?
2). I noticed in last weeks hearings that on Tuesday The Judge "didn't get his exercise jumping to conclusions" yet on Wednesday he "prepares himself to be 3 or 4 steps ahead" of the attorneys. Why the over night change?
Thanks - Pirate

I believe that the 30 page document was leaked by the defense, but was never part of discovery. That's why it's not part of the document drops.

I have not found any logic in Judge R (Ego)'s ravings about himself and his abilities. I think he says whatever makes him look good at the moment.

[Piratexox]

http://mamanetbebe.blogspot.com/2008/11/caylee-anthony-update-6-november.html

This talks more about the 30 page document and about middle ways down it says this was not made public.
So, the document as of now is not available to us.

Thanks. I wonder if Lenamon or Baez asked for this to be sealed?
This case is a rollercoaster ride in the dark. You never know which way the Judges will rule.

[Barbara fl.]

This is what the state has to prove can they fill in all the pieces of the puzzle. Only time will tell.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/criminal-overview/common-defenses-to-criminal-charges.html


Thanks for the link... I read it, and do not see a problem at all...

[legalmania]

There is no evidence to support intentional death???

You can't be serious???

Oh yeah...it's quite normal to die with duct tape over your mouth!!!:cursing:


Can the state prove the duct tape was placed pre mortem?

[Lapis]

Thank you all. Here's what I'd like to know:
1). Why don't we have access to Lenamon's 30 page filing to remove the DP? If it's not sealed it should be available through the Sunshine Law, correct?
2). I noticed in last weeks hearings that on Tuesday The Judge "didn't get his exercise jumping to conclusions" yet on Wednesday he "prepares himself to be 3 or 4 steps ahead" of the attorneys. Why the over night change?
Thanks - Pirate

With respect to the Lenamon letter. This is not something that was filed with the court. It was a letter sent to the prosecutor outlining an argument as to why the DP should not be sought. It is not part of discovery since it is a opinion letter from one attorney to another and cannot be used against Casey.

As to the judge's statements. I don't see this as a change. Jumping to conclusions referred to the attorneys asking the court to infer certain facts relative to the motives of others based upon certain actions. Staying 3-4 steps ahead merely refers to the anticipation of the arguments counsel will make relative to the law. The first asks the court to read people's minds and the second is the court knowing the law and applying it. JMO

[need2no]

Right! :rolleyes:

Searching the net for 'missing children', 'shovels', and 'chloroform' is just a coincidence.

The jury will see that even though Casey had a 'missing child', borrowed a 'shovel' from the neighbor, and had 'chloroform' along with a decomposing body in her trunk, that there was some kind of accident that caused a "Terminal event' to Caylee.

So, Casey just did what any Mother of the Year would do. Slap some duct tape on her only childs mouth, triple bag her, and toss her in the woods by her house.

Yeah, an accident. I see it all so clearly now that the defense has pointed it out to me.:rolleyes:


It's almost laughable, if it all wasn't so sad.

I'm still curious about casey's diary. If they can prove she wrote the entry we've seen on June 21, 2008, and IF there was something in the diary about doing this as a mercy killing to protect Caylee from Cindy...that would really wrap it up for the prosecution.

[Barbara fl.]

Can the state prove the duct tape was placed pre mortem?

The question is, why would it be put there after death? I would really love to hear a scientific reason for that....

[legalmania]

Thanks. I wonder if Lenamon or Baez asked for this to be sealed?
This case is a rollercoaster ride in the dark. You never know which way the Judges will rule.

Your never going to see the entire case before trial. The defendant as well as the witnesses have rights.

[Jeepers]

If the prosecutor can't convince the jury that the defendant is guilty, the defendant goes free. = 31 days, sleeping around,pics of party girl, cell phone records, duct tape, decomp in care, hair, decomp in car, grave wax on paper towel in car, traces of foliage on boots in car, trunk
No real Zanny, No real kidnapping at JBP, see cell phone pings

The prosecutor must convince the judge or jury hearing the case that the defendant is guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt.= See above

An alibi defense consists of evidence that a defendant was somewhere other than the scene of the crime at the time it was committed = See cell phone records, witness testimonies of whereabouts at certain times, view physical evidense

Self-Defense = N/A

The Insanity Defense = N/A

I just don't see a problem Legalmania
What do you see that I am not seeing

[legalmania]

The question is, why would it be put there after death? I would really love to hear a scientific reason for that....
I think it would be a more of a physiological question than a scientific.

[Jeepers]

Can the state prove the duct tape was placed pre mortem?

I don't know if they can prove that or not. They have so many test they can perform on the deceased.
If I was on a jury the thought of the tape would be sinister in itself.
I guess it could fall under descecrating a body. I think the state could convince easily about the tape and the heart.

[Barbara fl.]

If the prosecutor can't convince the jury that the defendant is guilty, the defendant goes free. = 31 days, sleeping around,pics of party girl, cell phone records, duct tape, decomp in care, hair, decomp in car, grave wax on paper towel in car, traces of foliage on boots in car, trunk
No real Zanny, No real kidnapping at JBP, see cell phone pings

The prosecutor must convince the judge or jury hearing the case that the defendant is guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt.= See above

An alibi defense consists of evidence that a defendant was somewhere other than the scene of the crime at the time it was committed = See cell phone records, witness testimonies of whereabouts at certain times, view physical evidense

Self-Defense = N/A

The Insanity Defense = N/A

I just don't see a problem Legalmania
What do you see that I am not seeing


Also Jeepers, the jury only has to go with a reasonable doubt (not beyond any doubt).....there is no reasonable doubt here (there is not ANY doubt)...it all falls to Casey (mother of the year)....

[happygert]

Personally I thought duck tape was a Wisconsin thing but who Knew:w00t:

LOL...... about 2 1/2 - 3 years .. I told my hubby that there was a leak in pipe under sink.. he told me he fixed it .. ok i thought .. well just what in the world do you think he fixed it with? DUCT TAPE.....roflamo..:lol: and it's still there... Yep my hubby is very handy..lol..

I read on one of the threads where someone posted baez could bring in experts to say that tape could not have stayed on Caylee's nose and mouth all the time while her little body was in the water... Nope I dont think they'll find a true expert to say that.. yes they may find someone to say that but imo the SA will throw that right out the window..

[Jeepers]

Also Jeepers, the jury only has to go with a reasonable doubt (not beyond any doubt).....there is no reasonable doubt here (there is not ANY doubt)...it all falls to Casey (mother of the year)....

Thank you very much for your closing argument. Casey is guilty and should be sentenced immediatley.
I agree.
The State has a good case in my opinion.
The DP or LWOP does not matter. It is a sentence she will have to live with along with George & Cindy.

[Piratexox]

With respect to the Lenamon letter. This is not something that was filed with the court. It was a letter sent to the prosecutor outlining an argument as to why the DP should not be sought. It is not part of discovery since it is a opinion letter from one attorney to another and cannot be used against Casey.

As to the judge's statements. I don't see this as a change. Jumping to conclusions referred to the attorneys asking the court to infer certain facts relative to the motives of others based upon certain actions. Staying 3-4 steps ahead merely refers to the anticipation of the arguments counsel will make relative to the law. The first asks the court to read people's minds and the second is the court knowing the law and applying it. JMO

Thanks for the answer. So does that mean that when the SA letter to end the offer for a plea deal is released because they can use that against her? Meaning CA not taking the deal?

[Barbara fl.]

I think it would be a more of a physiological question than a scientific.


Sorry...not when it comes to a body being found in this condition...it becomes scientific....and there is NO scientific reason for the tape being placed over all air supply areas AFTER death...

I believe that would be considered over kill, if she did place it there after death....(like stabbing a dead body).....

[legalmania]

If the prosecutor can't convince the jury that the defendant is guilty, the defendant goes free. = 31 days, sleeping around,pics of party girl, cell phone records, duct tape, decomp in care, hair, decomp in car, grave wax on paper towel in car, traces of foliage on boots in car, trunk
No real Zanny, No real kidnapping at JBP, see cell phone pings

The prosecutor must convince the judge or jury hearing the case that the defendant is guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt.= See above

An alibi defense consists of evidence that a defendant was somewhere other than the scene of the crime at the time it was committed = See cell phone records, witness testimonies of whereabouts at certain times, view physical evidense

Self-Defense = N/A

The Insanity Defense = N/A

I just don't see a problem Legalmania
What do you see that I am not seeing

When did I say she was going free? First of all she did commit the check fraud which carries a lot of time second she was responsible for Caylees death, the only question is was it with intent and done maliciously.

[Jeepers]

LOL...... about 2 1/2 - 3 years .. I told my hubby that there was a leak in pipe under sink.. he told me he fixed it .. ok i thought .. well just what in the world do you think he fixed it with? DUCT TAPE.....roflamo..:lol: and it's still there... Yep my hubby is very handy..lol..

I read on one of the threads where someone posted baez could bring in experts to say that tape could not have stayed on Caylee's nose and mouth all the time while her little body was in the water... Nope I dont think they'll find a true expert to say that.. yes they may find someone to say that but imo the SA will throw that right out the window..

Be careful the state might call your hubby in as an expert witness for rebuttal.

[Piratexox]

Your never going to see the entire case before trial. The defendant as well as the witnesses have rights.

I do agree w/ that. Sad isn't it? Caylee won't get all she deserves.

[Jeepers]

When did I say she was going free? First of all she did commit the check fraud which carries a lot of time second she was responsible for Caylees death, the only question is was it with intent and done maliciously.

I did not say you said anything about her being set free.
I was just asking if I left anything out or if you saw a weakness somewhere in the State's case that I am not seeing.

[Barbara fl.]

LOL...... about 2 1/2 - 3 years .. I told my hubby that there was a leak in pipe under sink.. he told me he fixed it .. ok i thought .. well just what in the world do you think he fixed it with? DUCT TAPE.....roflamo..:lol: and it's still there... Yep my hubby is very handy..lol..

I read on one of the threads where someone posted baez could bring in experts to say that tape could not have stayed on Caylee's nose and mouth all the time while her little body was in the water... Nope I dont think they'll find a true expert to say that.. yes they may find someone to say that but imo the SA will throw that right out the window..


The defense is going to say a lot of ludicrous things (that's there job)...but will anyone buy it? I don't think so....

[Barbara fl.]

When did I say she was going free? First of all she did commit the check fraud which carries a lot of time second she was responsible for Caylees death, the only question is was it with intent and done maliciously.

In answer to your only question.....YES.....

[legalmania]

Sorry...not when it comes to a body being found in this condition...it becomes scientific....and there is NO scientific reason for the tape being placed over all air supply areas AFTER death...

I believe that would be considered over kill, if she did place it there after death....(like stabbing a dead body).....

It doesn't take a expert to explain why her body was found in the condition it was after being under water and the animals and insects, but what is the meaning of the duct tape. This is usually something they do to a rat or some kind of serial killer thing. Bolding mine

[Lapis]

Thanks for the answer. So does that mean that when the SA letter to end the offer for a plea deal is released because they can use that against her? Meaning CA not taking the deal?

No. The fact that the defendant refused a plea deal is not admissible at the time of trial. Offers of settlement are never admissible at trial. I'm not sure who leaked that to the press but it is not part of the discovery and will not be used at trial. JMO

[Barbara fl.]

With respect to the Lenamon letter. This is not something that was filed with the court. It was a letter sent to the prosecutor outlining an argument as to why the DP should not be sought. It is not part of discovery since it is a opinion letter from one attorney to another and cannot be used against Casey.

As to the judge's statements. I don't see this as a change. Jumping to conclusions referred to the attorneys asking the court to infer certain facts relative to the motives of others based upon certain actions. Staying 3-4 steps ahead merely refers to the anticipation of the arguments counsel will make relative to the law. The first asks the court to read people's minds and the second is the court knowing the law and applying it. JMO


You are so correct...Only discovery has to be published according to the Sunshine Law...

[Rapunzel]

I don't know if they can prove that or not. They have so many test they can perform on the deceased.
If I was on a jury the thought of the tape would be sinister in itself.
I guess it could fall under descecrating a body. I think the state could convince easily about the tape and the heart.

In one of the forensic reports I remember reading they said the duct tape was put on pre-decomposition...that does not necessarily mean before death...but why would you put duct tape over someone's mouth and nose after death...there would be no reason...not only that, but if it was put there as some have speculated to keep the decomp. fluids from leaking...I personally don't think KC was educated enough to know that and the report said it was put on pre-decomposition...so that throws that theory out.

[msgatorslayer]

I can see a couple of possible reasons for Casey to put duct tape on Caylee after she killed her.

To shut her up for good. Symbolic and twisted!!

To try and prevent bugs from coming out of her mouth and nose. Sickening and equally twisted!!! :sad:

I don't think the state or defense will ever be able to show when it was placed on her mouth though.

[legalmania]

I do agree w/ that. Sad isn't it? Caylee won't get all she deserves.

I think by Caylee being dead at two, definitely will never get what she deserved that is a full and complete life.

[KatieLady]

I can see a couple of possible reasons for Casey to put duct tape on Caylee after she killed her.

To shut her up for good. Symbolic and twisted!!

To try and prevent bugs from coming out of her mouth and nose. Sickening and equally twisted!!! :sad:

I don't think the state or defense will ever be able to show when it was placed on her mouth though.

I think they can ms. Can't they tell if Caylee breathed into it? Saliva on it etc?

[Barbara fl.]

It doesn't take a expert to explain why her body was found in the condition it was after being under water and the animals and insects, but what is the meaning of the duct tape. This is usually something they do to a rat or some kind of serial killer thing. Bolding mine


Well Caylee was neither a rat or a serial killer....and if it was placed there by her mother....EVEN AFTER DEATH...would signify that she wanted to make sure her daughter couldn't take another breath....

So what's your point? Can Casey actually claim accidental death with having done that to her child? If it was placed there before, then the tape was the murder weapon and if it was placed there after death then it was an overkill...So pick your choice....


Let's get real here...what do you think happened...Caylee stopped breathing and Casey panicked so put duct tape over her air supply to try and bring her to?...

[Jeepers]

In one of the forensic reports I remember reading they said the duct tape was put on pre-decomposition...that does not necessarily mean before death...but why would you put duct tape over someone's mouth and nose after death...there would be no reason...not only that, but if it was put there as some have speculated to keep the decomp. fluids from leaking...I personally don't think KC was educated enough to know that and the report said it was put on pre-decomposition...so that throws that theory out.

That to me is sinister. There are other places body fluids leak from. Why not cover the rest of the body in tape if that was reason.
To me there would not be an innocent explanation for using the tape.

[legalmania]

I think they can ms. Can't they tell if Caylee breathed into it? Saliva on it etc?

I doubt it, as far as I remember the duct tape was attached to her hair. Was there a finger print or no?

[KatieLady]

I doubt it, as far as I remember the duct tape was attached to her hair. Was there a finger print or no?

We haven't heard about fingerprints. It was attached to her hair but IIRC over her mouth

[msgatorslayer]

I think they can ms. Can't they tell if Caylee breathed into it? Saliva on it etc?

I may be wrong but I don't recall much of any evidence in the reports that have been released.

The water and the heat could have degraded any of that evidence, had it existed. There weren't even any finger prints on the tape.

[neid_77]

For those who can't watch...from this link Tonight at 11: Weakness in Anthony Case
http://www.wesh.com/video/20899908/index.html

They are saying from a legal standpoint it's not casey's job to prove her innocence. There is a big hole in the State's case if they want to get the death penalty. The State has nothing which precludes this being an accidental death and points only to intentional death. Richard Hornsby is saying the State must fill this hole if they want to convince the jury to give casey the death penalty for casey.

More tonight at 11 on wesh.


wasn't it the ever glorious Bill Schaffear on Nancy Grace the other night saying how he thinks it was a good bet the state could get the death penalty now!?!? the whole time casey was on her little vacation the thing that got me the most was her TATOO!! la bella vita!! THE BUEATIFUL LIFE WILL YOUR CHILD IS "MISSING" That would leave me absoulely speechless!:cursing: i am so curious how the defense is going to spin all this..if they go with ugly cooping i believe it will fail bigtime!

why is it that Wesh is always focusing on the Defense aspect to all this!?!? i mean there the ones that came up with ugly cooping perhaps and inside source for the defense:confused::sneaky: oY VaY!

[KatieLady]

I may be wrong but I don't recall much of any evidence in the reports that have been released.

The water and the heat could have degraded any of that evidence, had it existed. There weren't even any finger prints on the tape.

Thanks Ms.

Do we know for sure no finger prints? Has that been released? So much to remember in this case lol

[Barbara fl.]

That to me is sinister. There are other places body fluids leak from. Why not cover the rest of the body in tape if that was reason.
To me there would not be an innocent explanation for using the tape.

Your right...there is none....why secure one area and not the rest...I would think that Casey would think that the bagging of the body would have taken care of the bugs and the fluids.....she was just WRONG, that's all..

I don't think it will be hard to convince a jury that the tape was te murder weapon and that Caylee died a horrific death....As sad as it is to even say....

[Lapis]

In one of the forensic reports I remember reading they said the duct tape was put on pre-decomposition...that does not necessarily mean before death...but why would you put duct tape over someone's mouth and nose after death...there would be no reason...not only that, but if it was put there as some have speculated to keep the decomp. fluids from leaking...I personally don't think KC was educated enough to know that and the report said it was put on pre-decomposition...so that throws that theory out.

I think this is the argument Hornsby is making. The only statement that can be made within a degree of scientific certainty is that the tape was placed there pre-decomposition. The jury may be willing to speculate that it was placed there before death to assess guilt, however, that may be a step too far for the penalty phase.
The jury may say "We are willing to accept the prosecution's theory relative to the guilt phase, but to ask us to impose the death penalty without scientific evidence is just too much to ask. " JMO

[legalmania]

I may be wrong but I don't recall much of any evidence in the reports that have been released.

The water and the heat could have degraded any of that evidence, had it existed. There weren't even any finger prints on the tape.

So most likely any saliva won't be there either.

[Rapunzel]

I may be wrong but I don't recall much of any evidence in the reports that have been released.

The water and the heat could have degraded any of that evidence, had it existed. There weren't even any finger prints on the tape.


my bold

Not that we have heard...IIRC they ruled out any latent prints from the rest of the family...we never heard about KC...IMHO...they have latent prints from KC on that duct tape.

Even if submerged in water for up to a year...prints can still be viable on duct tape.

[cassidy]

I think this is the argument Hornsby is making. The only statement that can be made within a degree of scientific certainty is that the tape was placed there pre-decomposition. The jury may be willing to speculate that it was placed there before death to assess guilt, however, that may be a step too far for the penalty phase.
The jury may say "We are willing to accept the prosecution's theory relative to the guilt phase, but to ask us to impose the death penalty without scientific evidence is just too much to ask. " JMO

And that's OK with me. LWOP works. IMO

[frances1]

And that's OK with me. LWOP works. IMO

I agree, Cassidy. No automatic appeals.

[happygert]

Thanks Ms.

Do we know for sure no finger prints? Has that been released? So much to remember in this case lol

No Katie we dont know for sure there was no prints.. we know cindy ,george nor lee's were there but they DID NOT say casey's were not there...

[KatieLady]

No Katie we dont know for sure there was no prints.. we know cindy ,george nor lee's were there but they DID NOT say casey's were not there...

Thanks Gert...that is what I thought

[Imperfect4]

my bold

Not that we have heard...IIRC they ruled out any latent prints from the rest of the family...we never heard about KC...IMHO...they have latent prints from KC on that duct tape.

Even if submerged in water for up to a year...prints can still be viable on duct tape.

This is my thought as well. It isn't the rare duct tape, or the adhesive from the heart sticker, or the fact the tape was placed over her mouth and nose very close to her time of death. It's a fingerprint on the duct tape. imo

[happygert]

Thanks Gert...that is what I thought

IMO if casey's were not there I think they would have said casey's prints was not on the Tape just like they did the rest of the A's..

[need2no]

In one of the forensic reports I remember reading they said the duct tape was put on pre-decomposition...that does not necessarily mean before death...but why would you put duct tape over someone's mouth and nose after death...there would be no reason...not only that, but if it was put there as some have speculated to keep the decomp. fluids from leaking...I personally don't think KC was educated enough to know that and the report said it was put on pre-decomposition...so that throws that theory out.

We will probably never know why or exactly when casey did this. It may have been a symbolic act, similiar to the way some murderers pose their victims after death. Perhaps it was casey's way of saying "I told you to shut up but you wouldn't listen", and then she added the heart later as a way of saying....but mommie stills loves you.

Psychopath.

[Imperfect4]

And that's OK with me. LWOP works. IMO

Whatever takes her off the street permanently and ensures she won't ever have another baby.

If it's LWOP, I'd like to see mandatory birth control while she attempts her appeals, and when they fail, mandatory sterilization before she's transported to the rest of her life in prison.

[Barbara fl.]

This is my thought as well. It isn't the rare duct tape, or the adhesive from the heart sticker, or the fact the tape was placed over her mouth and nose very close to her time of death. It's a fingerprint on the duct tape. imo


The only problem is, they didn't find any prints on the duct tape...if they had, it would have been considered discovery and would have had to be in the reports...so it's nothing that can be held back for trial...

But I think it would be safe to conclude that Casey is the one that put it there...

[Lavinia]

Has anyone touched on the possibility that a Columbian drug cartel took Caylee and killed her because Casey bought the wrong color of sunglasses at target? :sneaky:

Gotta run to the Dr. and get nekkid and I have to pay THEM for the "privilege" :angry: Sux getting old. BBL.

[Rapunzel]

IMO if casey's were not there I think they would have casey's prints was not on the Tape just like they did the rest of the A's..

A big yes to that...eventually that will have to be handed over to the defense if it hasn't already...but will prolly not be released to the public...we may not hear about it until trial.

[msgatorslayer]

my bold

Not that we have heard...IIRC they ruled out any latent prints from the rest of the family...we never heard about KC...IMHO...they have latent prints from KC on that duct tape.

Even if submerged in water for up to a year...prints can still be viable on duct tape.

Why is it that the rest of the family were excluded but there was no mention of Casey?

That has me very confused.

The basis of the Sunshine Law is to keep government open and in check. To show the people that the state has evidence to back up it's claims. That there is no witch hunt going on. The defendants finger print on a key piece of evidence would be huge!!!

[no1what]

IMO if casey's were not there I think they would have casey's prints was not on the Tape just like they did the rest of the A's..


OR maybe they would have said "NO PRINTS" were found on the duct tape instead of specifically stating names of who's were not found.

Maybe we're reading more into a statement or maybe they're sending the defense on a goose chase.

Or hopefully they have Casey's prints but if they did wouldn't the defense know that?

[happygert]

This is my thought as well. It isn't the rare duct tape, or the adhesive from the heart sticker, or the fact the tape was placed over her mouth and nose very close to her time of death. It's a fingerprint on the duct tape. imo


I also think that casey's prints are on that tape.. too much tape for there not to be one print.. It helps that the tape was rare thou and same kind being found on georges gas can.......mo

[Rapunzel]

The only problem is, they didn't find any prints on the duct tape...if they had, it would have been considered discovery and would have had to be in the reports...so it's nothing that can be held back for trial...

But I think it would be safe to conclude that Casey is the one that put it there...

If there were latent KC prints on the duct tape and has already been turned over to defense it would not necessarily be released...LE or the judge can require it not be released.

[Dells]

Richard Hornsby doesn't believe that the State has proven that an accidental death did not occur and that the only answer was intentional murder. I guess the duct tape doesn't prove that to him.

I was thinking the same thing when I was watching that video clip. Doesn't the duct tape prove it was intentional murder? To me it does. Who knows, the state may have some very interesting tidbits of information that we are not privy to yet. I think they were very sure of their case before they put the DP back on the table.

[breezie]

OR maybe they would have said "NO PRINTS" were found on the duct tape instead of specifically stating names of who's were not found.

Maybe we're reading more into a statement or maybe they're sending the defense on a goose chase.

Or hopefully they have Casey's prints but if they did wouldn't the defense know that?


I bet the defense knows, but that is sooo damning if it's true, that they will not release it until trial. It would be hard to pick a jury if everyone knows for sure Casey's fingerprint is on the tape around her dead daughter's skull.

[Imperfect4]

The only problem is, they didn't find any prints on the duct tape...if they had, it would have been considered discovery and would have had to be in the reports...so it's nothing that can be held back for trial...

But I think it would be safe to conclude that Casey is the one that put it there...

I'm not convinced we've seen everything there is to see with regard to the duct tape, Barb. We saw/read/heard there were no prints from the other Anthonys. We haven't heard conclusively there were no prints, period.

[Rapunzel]

I was thinking the same thing when I was watching that video clip. Doesn't the duct tape prove it was intentional murder? To me it does. Who knows, the state may have some very interesting tidbits of information that we are not privy to yet. I think they were very sure of their case before they put the DP back on the table.

Exactly!!!

[msgatorslayer]

I bet the defense knows, but that is sooo damning if it's true, that they will not release it until trial. It would be hard to pick a jury if everyone knows for sure Casey's fingerprint is on the tape around her dead daughter's skull .

Oh, excellent point!

[Dells]

There is no evidence to support intentional death???

You can't be serious???

Oh yeah...it's quite normal to die with duct tape over your mouth!!!:cursing:

I so agree. Plus, I personally think her behavior afterward shows that it was an intention murder. You don't go out and live your life in a celebratory type of way after the "accidental death" of your 2 year old child. From a legal standpoint, I don't know if that type of evidence can be used in the trial to prove intentional murder. But for me, from a human perspective it proves intentional murder.

[KittyMom]

Has anyone touched on the possibility that a Columbian drug cartel took Caylee and killed her because Casey bought the wrong color of sunglasses at target? :sneaky:

Gotta run to the Dr. and get nekkid and I have to pay THEM for the "privilege" Sux getting old. BBL.

:lol: for the drug cartel theory

:lol: for the doc visit description

[Barbara fl.]

A big yes to that...eventually that will have to be handed over to the defense if it hasn't already...but will prolly not be released to the public...we may not hear about it until trial.

According to the Sunshine law, everything pertaining to the discovery will have to be released to the defense and the public, all within a specified time limit prior to the trial...If this evidence was on the tape, it would have been in the defense hands by now and we would have known about it....I believe they have already made the statement that no prints were on the tape....All discovery must be turned over for the defense's experts to go over fo a rebuttal....

I believe it is safe to say that they were unable to get a prints from the tape...probably due to the body having been in the water for so long....The same exact thing happened in the Scott Peterson case, and no cause of death was obtainable and no prints were able to be obtained...all due to the time the body's were in the water......

[CRRJJ]

Right! :rolleyes:

Searching the net for 'missing children', 'shovels', and 'chloroform' is just a coincidence.

The jury will see that even though Casey had a 'missing child', borrowed a 'shovel' from the neighbor, and had 'chloroform' along with a decomposing body in her trunk, that there was some kind of accident that caused a "Terminal event' to Caylee.

So, Casey just did what any Mother of the Year would do. Slap some duct tape on her only childs mouth, triple bag her, and toss her in the woods by her house.

Yeah, an accident. I see it all so clearly now that the defense has pointed it out to me.:rolleyes:

Oh, my, yes, it is all so clear now. Why didn't I think of that. Well, now they can drop all charges, apologize to the little darling, and we can all head for the bar where Casey's friends await her, and celebrate her well earned freedom. What'll you have, you poor abused, misunderstood soul? :thumbsup:

[KittyMom]

I think the evidence for deliberate murder will come from the 6/15 argument....neighbors overhearing, cell records, friends' interviews, Shirley's interview

[no1what]

I bet the defense knows, but that is sooo damning if it's true, that they will not release it until trial. It would be hard to pick a jury if everyone knows for sure Casey's fingerprint is on the tape around her dead daughter's skull.


So are the Anthony's and the defense using a Cynthism in saying they can prove Casey didn't kill Caylee?

In other words Caylee died of an accident and they will present this information during the trial but they don't won't it out before the jury is selected.

[Imperfect4]

Why is it that the rest of the family were excluded but there was no mention of Casey?

That has me very confused.

The basis of the Sunshine Law is to keep government open and in check. To show the people that the state has evidence to back up it's claims. That there is no witch hunt going on. The defendants finger print on a key piece of evidence would be huge!!!

There are many "exceptions" to the Sunshine Laws which can be employed when one side or the other has a compelling reason to keep something quiet.

[Barbara fl.]

I so agree. Plus, I personally think her behavior afterward shows that it was an intention murder. You don't go out and live your life in a celebratory type of way after the "accidental death" of your 2 year old child. From a legal standpoint, I don't know if that type of evidence can be used in the trial to prove intentional murder. But for me, from a human perspective it proves intentional murder.


Amen....and I'm sure the jury will see it that way as well...

[Dells]

As a common sense sort of person, the fact that Casey didn't report Caylee's death is an indicator to me that Caylee didn't die accidentally. 31 days. And even then, everything that she told LE was all lies. IMO, Casey is a huge danger to society.

Exactly. I think Casey's behavior, actions, and demeanor after Caylee went missing (and was apparently murdered) are going to go a long way in convicting her. If it was an accident, you would think that there would be a big change in her behavior. You would think she would be besides herself w/grief and not be able to go on living her life the way she had been. Plus, if it was an accident, why cover it up? If your child is in an accident where they are seriously injured in killed, you call 911 and report it. You don't cover it up and then go on to live your life like it is the happiest time ever.

[happygert]

I was thinking the same thing when I was watching that video clip. Doesn't the duct tape prove it was intentional murder? To me it does. Who knows, the state may have some very interesting tidbits of information that we are not privy to yet. I think they were very sure of their case before they put the DP back on the table.

I agree. not only that 31 days no 911 call. triple bagging etc.. Dells there are so many things that to me add up intentional premeditated murder.

[no1what]

According to the Sunshine law, everything pertaining to the discovery will have to be released to the defense and the public, all within a specified time limit prior to the trial...If this evidence was on the tape, it would have been in the defense hands by now and we would have known about it....I believe they have already made the statement that no prints were on the tape....All discovery must be turned over for the defense's experts to go over fo a rebuttal....

I believe it is safe to say that they were unable to get a prints from the tape...probably due to the body having been in the water for so long....The same exact thing happened in the Scott Peterson case, and no cause of death was obtainable and no prints were able to be obtained...all due to the time the body's were in the water......


I thought the evidence was turned over as the defense request certain pieces of evidence and they haven't requested this evidence because they know the detail findings.

[breezie]

So are the Anthony's and the defense using a Cynthism in saying they can prove Casey didn't kill Caylee?

In other words Caylee died of an accident and they will present this information during the trial but they don't won't it out before the jury is selected.

I don't know what the defense will do, but I doubt Casey will allow them to say she had any role in Caylee's death and dump, accident or not.

[cherish]

Good morning Welcome!

Here is a news link talking about the 30 page doc. I have not found the actual doc. yet.
Hope some of the information in the article helps to define what he did actually write about.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey0608nov06,0,7406889.story

Thanks for sharing that Jeepers. I don't remember seeing that before.

Word of the day: Filicide -- the act of a parent killing a child

[Imperfect4]

I also think that casey's prints are on that tape.. too much tape for there not to be one print.. It helps that the tape was rare thou and same kind being found on georges gas can.......mo

I think it's logical her prints are there. Lots of tape was used, and let's face it, Casey just isn't real bright. I would also assume her emotional state while she was applying the tape wouldn't lend itself to her being especially sneaky about it.

[Barbara fl.]

I'm not convinced we've seen everything there is to see with regard to the duct tape, Barb. We saw/read/heard there were no prints from the other Anthonys. We haven't heard conclusively there were no prints, period.


But that would be just too much of a discovery to be left out...the defense would ague that their stragedy would have depended on the prints....it would only delay the trial even more so...and there really wouldn't be any reason for the pros to leave it out at this time...

Unless they found prints that weren't Casey's...and that would also be too big of a discovery to lay low on...

I would really be surprised if prints have been found on the tape....jmo

[Dells]

I agree completely Sun. But let's say the argument could be made that casey flipped out after an accidental death, feared telling her parents so she foolishly did not report it and hid the body. Well then how do they explain casey not going into depression, holding herself up at TonE's or whereever, shunning her friends and shutting down all her social activities. The girl never skipped a beat from manicures to tattoos to text messages to partying hardy. If there was evidence she secluded herself and acted abnormally for even a few weeks then maybe I could consider an accident occurred. And Lord help me if I hear anybody say.... we all grieve differently, or she was ugly coping. That's BS.

I don't think a jury would be fooled by such nonsense.

Bolding mine.....

I so agree w/you. Not only did Casey not go into any kind of depressive state, but she went on to live her life in a celebratory-type fashion. To me that says that she was glad that Caylee was gone from her life which to me further points to the fact that she murdered her intentionally.

[Dells]

Good Morning All - As you can tell this is my 1st post here. I've been reading other boards and felt this is the best for me. Lots of good, informative posters here. I believe I've read and heard every thing about this case.
I do have questions that you might be able to answer though. Any one up for them?

Welcome to the board, Piratexox! :seeya: Glad to have you here w/us. I agree, this is the best board around.:thumbup: Looking forward to posting w/you.

[msgatorslayer]

There are many "exceptions" to the Sunshine Laws which can be employed when one side or the other has a compelling reason to keep something quiet.

Right! I'm totally aware of that.

Breezie just posted a good reason for a print match to be kept under seal.

[KatieLady]

But that would be just too much of a discovery to be left out...the defense would ague that their stragedy would have depended on the prints....it would only delay the trial even more so...and there really wouldn't be any reason for the pros to leave it out at this time...

Unless they found prints that weren't Casey's...and that would also be too big of a discovery to lay low on...

I would really be surprised if prints have been found on the tape....jmo

But doesn't the Judge have the discretion to keep somethings from being made public under the Sunshine Law? I thought that he does and has????

[legalmania]

Has anyone touched on the possibility that a Columbian drug cartel took Caylee and killed her because Casey bought the wrong color of sunglasses at target? :sneaky:

Gotta run to the Dr. and get nekkid and I have to pay THEM for the "privilege" :angry: Sux getting old. BBL.

If that is a dig at me, you are so off point, have fun at the docs.

[no1what]

But that would be just too much of a discovery to be left out...the defense would ague that their stragedy would have depended on the prints....it would only delay the trial even more so...and there really wouldn't be any reason for the pros to leave it out at this time...

Unless they found prints that weren't Casey's...and that would also be too big of a discovery to lay low on...

I would really be surprised if prints have been found on the tape....jmo


Then why list names? Why not say no prints were found at all on the tape?

[Rapunzel]

According to the Sunshine law, everything pertaining to the discovery will have to be released to the defense and the public, all within a specified time limit prior to the trial...If this evidence was on the tape, it would have been in the defense hands by now and we would have known about it....I believe they have already made the statement that no prints were on the tape....All discovery must be turned over for the defense's experts to go over fo a rebuttal....

I believe it is safe to say that they were unable to get a prints from the tape...probably due to the body having been in the water for so long....The same exact thing happened in the Scott Peterson case, and no cause of death was obtainable and no prints were able to be obtained...all due to the time the body's were in the water......

You may be right Barb...I just thought I read that somethings LE can hold back or the LE can go to the judge and request certain things not be released...remember there were certain things not released...remember some of those blacked out pages and certain things in Caylee autopsy report??? What about those???

[Barbara fl.]

Why is it that the rest of the family were excluded but there was no mention of Casey?

That has me very confused.

The basis of the Sunshine Law is to keep government open and in check. To show the people that the state has evidence to back up it's claims. That there is no witch hunt going on. The defendants finger print on a key piece of evidence would be huge!!!


Exactly my point....

Also, the tape was wrapped around Caylee's head over and over...therefore any real prints would have been on the initial starting point and the tear off point of the tape...the first part could have had duct tape go right over the print thus making it impossible to lift a print and the final piece that would have been ripped off was the part that was in the water...not the glue side but the outer surface....

When they say that duct tape can hold a finger print for just about ever, that is when the finger print was actually on the tape and the tape is found before it stickes to anything else...but it would be very hard to take a finger print from tape when you have to seperate the tape...jmo

[KatieLady]

You may be right Barb...I just thought I read that somethings LE can hold back or the LE can go to the judge and request certain things not be released...remember there were certain things not released...remember some of those blacked out pages and certain things in Caylee autopsy report??? What about those???

I believe you are right Rapunzel IMO

[legalmania]

But that would be just too much of a discovery to be left out...the defense would ague that their stragedy would have depended on the prints....it would only delay the trial even more so...and there really wouldn't be any reason for the pros to leave it out at this time...

Unless they found prints that weren't Casey's...and that would also be too big of a discovery to lay low on...

I would really be surprised if prints have been found on the tape....jmo

If there were prints found and they weren't linked with any of the Anthony's, then I could see why the prosecution would prefer to keep this out of discovery, however the defense may be saving it for some eleventh hour hail Mary.

[margaritaville]

Can the state prove the duct tape was placed pre mortem?


Well she certainly wouldn't want a dead Caylee to be screaming while going through the "Terminal event' .......

moo

[Barbara fl.]

You may be right Barb...I just thought I read that somethings LE can hold back or the LE can go to the judge and request certain things not be released...remember there were certain things not released...remember some of those blacked out pages and certain things in Caylee autopsy report??? What about those???

When it has no bearing on the trial itself and it can be damaging to another they will redact it....that is allowed in any document...however those items that have been redacted for whatever the reason can no longer be put into evidence at a later date...

But most of the time, the redactment is only names of witnesses, or records that do not belong to the case due to a LE agent handling a few cases at a time and notes get included that do not belong there...

But anything pertaining or pertinent to the trial will be there....

As for the autopsy report...they can request that it not be shown to the public for abvious reasons...it would be too hurting to the family and it would end up on the internet by some sicko...so items such as that can be withheld from the public (photo's)....but not evidence...

[no1what]

Exactly my point....

Also, the tape was wrapped around Caylee's head over and over...therefore any real prints would have been on the initial starting point and the tear off point of the tape...the first part could have had duct tape go right over the print thus making it impossible to lift a print and the final piece that would have been ripped off was the part that was in the water...not the glue side but the outer surface....

When they say that duct tape can hold a finger print for just about ever, that is when the finger print was actually on the tape and the tape is found before it stickes to anything else...but it would be very hard to take a finger print from tape when you have to seperate the tape...jmo



What about on top of the heart shapped sticker? Could that have a partial print?

[Rapunzel]

I thought the Sunshine Law also had provisions for ongoing investigations??? Which I believe this still is...I will see if I can find something...BBL

Or if any of our legal eagles can answer this question...

Does Sunshine Law have to release all discovery to the public??? No matter what...or can certain things be held back from release???

[legalmania]

Well she certainly wouldn't want a dead Caylee to be screaming while going through the "Terminal event' .......

moo

How do you scream if your dead?

[Rapunzel]

When it has no bearing on the trial itself and it can be damaging to another they will redact it....that is allowed in any document...however those items that have been redacted for whatever the reason can no longer be put into evidence at a later date...

But most of the time, the redactment is only names of witnesses, or records that do not belong to the case due to a LE agent handling a few cases at a time and notes get included that do not belong there...

But anything pertaining or pertinent to the trial will be there....

As for the autopsy report...they can request that it not be shown to the public for abvious reasons...it would be too hurting to the family and it would end up on the internet by some sicko...so items such as that can be withheld from the public (photo's)....but not evidence...

OK...are you an attorney??? just curious...you sound like you know what your talking about...and seem to know Sunshine Law quite well.

[Barbara fl.]

If there were prints found and they weren't linked with any of the Anthony's, then I could see why the prosecution would prefer to keep this out of discovery, however the defense may be saving it for some eleventh hour hail Mary.


As I stated in my post "that too would be too big of a discovery to lay low on" it would also be consider holding back evidence that would be able to clear their client....so I doubt very much that the pros would even contemplete such a thing....

They also would not be able to hold info out on any prints to the 11th hour....that would only cause a delay in the trial and the judge wouldn't look to kindly to the state for having done that....

[need2no]

If there were prints found and they weren't linked with any of the Anthony's, then I could see why the prosecution would prefer to keep this out of discovery, however the defense may be saving it for some eleventh hour hail Mary.

So do you think the state would leave the death penalty on the table if they found fingerprints on the duct tape that belonged to someone outside of the Anthony family?

[Dtviewer3]

I thought the Sunshine Law also had provisions for ongoing investigations??? Which I believe this still is...I will see if I can find something...BBL

Correct

Or if any of our legal eagles can answer this question...

Does Sunshine Law have to release all discovery to the public??? No matter what...or can certain things be held back from release???

The State or the Defense can request to the Judge for certain things not to be released and they will hold a hearing on it. So you are correct again, not everything gets released.

Above.........

[happygert]

According to the Sunshine law, everything pertaining to the discovery will have to be released to the defense and the public, all within a specified time limit prior to the trial...If this evidence was on the tape, it would have been in the defense hands by now and we would have known about it....I believe they have already made the statement that no prints were on the tape....All discovery must be turned over for the defense's experts to go over fo a rebuttal....

I believe it is safe to say that they were unable to get a prints from the tape...probably due to the body having been in the water for so long....The same exact thing happened in the Scott Peterson case, and no cause of death was obtainable and no prints were able to be obtained...all due to the time the body's were in the water......

IIRC they never have said that NO PRINTS were on the tape.. bc said there was no duct tape then IIRC he said no prints on tape.. I dont recall any SA saying there was NO PRINTS at ALL..

.There wasn't any duct tape on Lacy..Where did that come from?

There was many layers of tape on Caylee's mouth and nose with it being layered there is a GREAT possibilty that there was a fingerprint on that tape.. Also I'll bet someone has done a test to see if the duct tape would remain on a body in the water for the same length of time that Caylee's little body was under water.. If they've done the squirrel test, pizza, test. I'll bet they have also done the duct tape test..

[Barbara fl.]

OK...are you an attorney??? just curious...you sound like you know what your talking about...and seem to know Sunshine Law quite well.


No, I am no where near being an attorney (thank goodness)...however, in about 2 months my case will become public following the discovery..(civil case)...so I sort of learned alot about the sunsine law thru this....

[Barbara fl.]

IIRC they never have said that NO PRINTS were on the tape.. bc said there was no duct tape then IIRC he said no prints on tape.. I dont recall any SA saying there was NO PRINTS at ALL..

.There wasn't any duct tape on Lacy..Where did that come from?

There was many layers of tape on Caylee's mouth and nose with it being layered there is a GREAT possibilty that there was a fingerprint on that tape.. Also I'll bet someone has done a test to see if the duct tape would remain on a body in the water for the same length of time that Caylee's little body was under water.. If they've done the squirrel test, pizza, test. I'll bet they have also done the duct tape test..


I do believe that Lacy's legs were duct taped closed so that the fetus would not come out...which it ended up being a coffin birth....but tape was found at the scene..(if i'm not mistaken)

All I am saying here is that the state wouldn't allow any evidence to be held back from the defense, especially such evidence of print on tape...that is all I am saying....

[legalmania]

I thought the Sunshine Law also had provisions for ongoing investigations??? Which I believe this still is...I will see if I can find something...BBL

Or if any of our legal eagles can answer this question...

Does Sunshine Law have to release all discovery to the public??? No matter what...or can certain things be held back from release???

Here is the evidence code:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0090/titl0090.htm&StatuteYear=2009&Title=-%3E2009-%3EChapter%2090

[Rapunzel]

No, I am no where near being an attorney (thank goodness)...however, in about 2 months my case will become public following the discovery..(civil case)...so I sort of learned alot about the sunsine law thru this....

Would the law of release of discovery be the same in a civil case as opposed to a criminal case???

[happygert]

So do you think the state would leave the death penalty on the table if they found fingerprints on the duct tape that belonged to someone outside of the Anthony family?

Exactly n2n.. defense would have already taken that evidence to the Judge and asked for either a bond reduction or a dismissal of the murder charge.. DA would have not put the DP back on the table either.. defense would be screaming to the media at the top of their lungs "Prints found on duct tape DOES NOT MATCH OUR CLIENTS!".

[Barbara fl.]

So do you think the state would leave the death penalty on the table if they found fingerprints on the duct tape that belonged to someone outside of the Anthony family?


If they found prints on the tape other then Casey's they might just as well set her free...because that would make the defense's case....It would be their dream....

[Barbara fl.]

Would the law of release of discovery be the same in a civil case as opposed to a criminal case???

Yes...that is the whole "Sunshine Law"...everything is to be made public once it is considered discovery in any case....

[happygert]

I do believe that Lacy's legs were duct taped closed so that the fetus would not come out...which it ended up being a coffin birth....but tape was found at the scene..(if i'm not mistaken)

All I am saying here is that the state wouldn't allow any evidence to be held back from the defense, especially such evidence of print on tape...that is all I am saying....

IIRC it was debris from the water like tape was found around Connor.. .. but none on Lacy..Lacy still had her pants on.her panties and her bra.dont recall her having a top on think that was found in the hamper at home... Baby Connor didn't expell from Lacy until not too long before his little body was found..Lacy's legs were not taped shut

[Rapunzel]

Here is the evidence code:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0090/titl0090.htm&StatuteYear=2009&Title=-%3E2009-%3EChapter%2090

You don't really expect a lay person such as myself to be able to decipher this do you???

Can you explain the answer???

[need2no]

Exactly n2n.. defense would have already taken that evidence to the Judge and asked for either a bond reduction or a dismissal of the murder charge.. DA would have not put the DP back on the table either.. defense would be screaming to the media at the top of their lungs "Prints found on duct tape DOES NOT MATCH OUR CLIENTS!".

Don't you just know Baez would love to have something this good for his defense case. Sorry Jose...you're going to have to pull a rabbit out of your hat.:biggrin:

[Barbara fl.]

IIRC it was debris from the water like tape was found around Connor.. but it wasn't tape like normal tape it was yellow .. but none on Lacy..Lacy still had her pants on.her panties and her bra.dont recall her having a top on think that was found in the hamper at home... Baby Connor didn't expell from Lacy until not too long before his little body was found..

I don't exactly remember the details...but I knew that they couldn't positively connect Scott to the bodies thru any finger prints...

Finger prints would be number one in discovery...there is just no way the pros would be able to sit on this for any logical reason....The judge would go balistic...

[bchand]

Linda Kenny Baden on TruTV right now, discussing Casey Anthony.

She says she feels they wanted a death penalty qualified jury and thats why they are going for the death penalty.

Her best guess for the murder trial is next June or July.

In FL she says you don't have to go to a neighboring county. The judge and prosecution go with the case if it's moved.

[KP1935]

If you go with the accident theory why come up with a convaluted story about a kidnapping? If it was accident how do you explain dumping the body in the brush like garbage? If it was an accident how do you explain the lack of emotion or the fact that she didn't alert anyone to the 'accident'? If it was an accident how do you go on with your life as if nothing has happened? (tatoo, shopping, partying)

Nope, accident theory won't work. She insisted it was a kidnapping even after LE proved her complete story didn't hold any truth.

[legalmania]

You don't really expect a lay person such as myself to be able to decipher this do you???

Can you explain the answer???

The law has so many gray areas I thought maybe you would like to go through them, it just depends on the judge.

[Barbara fl.]

Linda Kenny Baden on TruTV right now, discussing Casey Anthony.

She says she feels they wanted a death penalty qualified jury and thats why they are going for the death penalty.

Her best guess for the murder trial is next June or July.

In FL she says you don't have to go to a neighboring county. The judge and prosecution go with the case if it's moved.


Darn, too late...I only caught the book she wrote...I wonder if Casey is in the book?

[Dells]

IIRC they never have said that NO PRINTS were on the tape.. bc said there was no duct tape then IIRC he said no prints on tape.. I dont recall any SA saying there was NO PRINTS at ALL..

.There wasn't any duct tape on Lacy..Where did that come from?

There was many layers of tape on Caylee's mouth and nose with it being layered there is a GREAT possibilty that there was a fingerprint on that tape.. Also I'll bet someone has done a test to see if the duct tape would remain on a body in the water for the same length of time that Caylee's little body was under water.. If they've done the squirrel test, pizza, test. I'll bet they have also done the duct tape test..

I so agree. Plus, that one time LP was on the NG show he said something along the lines that Casey's fingerprints were all over the tape. Now I know everything Lenny says should be taken w/a grain of salt, but I find it hard to believe he would just blurt out something that important w/out anything to back it up. I guess we just have to wait and see. I still think there is some very interesting and damning evidence yet to be released by the state.

[Rapunzel]

The law has so many gray areas I thought maybe you would like to go through them, it just depends on the judge.


Oh, I will go through them...don't know if I will understand them...but I will go through them...are you available for private tutoring???:biggrin:

[legalmania]

Yes...that is the whole "Sunshine Law"...everything is to be made public once it is considered discovery in any case....

Which is up to the judge what is considered evidence. Once it's filed it can be viewed by the public, but sometimes it takes a motion to get the prosecution or the defense to file something.

[Barbara fl.]

Where did you hear that? Or read that? Do you have a link?
Oh shut, I missed so much while on holiday.
Sorry girls, guys!
LL


I don't have any links either...but I do remembe hearing it on the NG show...and i'm pretty sure we would have heard this by now...

Also, I'm sure that the defense has received all this evidence to go over themselves and had prints been found it would have been mentioned just to prove that the pros didn't do a good enough job...just like when Henry Lee said that he found more hairs in the trunk that LE missed...they would be the first to scream that the state didn't do their job....jmo

[Barbara fl.]

Which is up to the judge what is considered evidence. Once it's filed it can be viewed by the public, but sometimes it takes a motion to get the prosecution or the defense to file something.


Well, quite naturely something has to be proven to be evidence before it is released to the public....that is what the discovery is all about...

[trich]

IIRC they never have said that NO PRINTS were on the tape.. bc said there was no duct tape then IIRC he said no prints on tape.. I dont recall any SA saying there was NO PRINTS at ALL..

.There wasn't any duct tape on Lacy..Where did that come from?

There was many layers of tape on Caylee's mouth and nose with it being layered there is a GREAT possibilty that there was a fingerprint on that tape.. Also I'll bet someone has done a test to see if the duct tape would remain on a body in the water for the same length of time that Caylee's little body was under water.. If they've done the squirrel test, pizza, test. I'll bet they have also done the duct tape test..

I believe what was said was that neither Cindy nor George's prints were on the duck tape.
Nothing about Casey's.

[legalmania]

Oh, I will go through them...don't know if I will understand them...but I will go through them...are you available for private tutoring???:biggrin:

I think I'll probably confuse you. You'll get it.

[Dells]

If you go with the accident theory why come up with a convaluted story about a kidnapping? If it was accident how do you explain dumping the body in the brush like garbage? If it was an accident how do you explain the lack of emotion or the fact that she didn't alert anyone to the 'accident'? If it was an accident how do you go on with your life as if nothing has happened? (tatoo, shopping, partying)

Nope, accident theory won't work. She insisted it was a kidnapping even after LE proved her complete story didn't hold any truth.

I agree. I think the jury will think logically and they will see that there is absolutely nothing that points to Caylee's death being an accident.

[happygert]

I don't exactly remember the details...but I knew that they couldn't positively connect Scott to the bodies thru any finger prints...

Finger prints would be number one in discovery...there is just no way the pros would be able to sit on this for any logical reason....The judge would go balistic...

I dont think they are sitting on this evidence..IMO baez knows about this evidence and they dont want it turned over yet because then its released to the public.defense does not want this info out ..How would that look to everyone out there in the potential jury pool it would be bad for defense..

[Imperfect4]

Oh, I will go through them...don't know if I will understand them...but I will go through them...are you available for private tutoring???:biggrin:

This link is better: http://www.myflsunshine.com/sun.nsf/sunmanual/1BB05D142D8E4724852566F3006C7A1A

(It addresses exemptions.)

[legalmania]

Well, quite naturely something has to be proven to be evidence before it is released to the public....that is what the discovery is all about...

No a lot of things get filed that never get into evidence.

[Jeepers]

O/T Suspect named (some report also arrested) in the murder of Annie Le. Student with defensive wounds who failed a polygraph.

That is good news if they have arrested someone. Such a creepy thinking murderer. Clothes in the ceiling and Annie Le found in a wall.
Folks, these kinda of people are walking our streets.
Look at Casey, Cute girl (until you found out all of her skill sets) But looking at the nice pics of her. I would have never picked her out of crowd to be a baby killer.
It is just not safe anywhere. Annie was at work and was killed in her work environment.

[kakax]

I believe the SA can cover that hole with a strip of Henkle duct tape with the outline of a heart sticker and a clump of Caylee's hair and BAM we have a death sentence.

Wonder if that can be shown in court (the duct tape with hair on it). Would that be too prejudicial? I would not like to see it, but I think you have a point. After seeing that, I have a hard time believing anyone would think it was an accident or not intentional.

[Barbara fl.]

I agree. I think the jury will think logically and they will see that there is absolutely nothing that points to Caylee's death being an accident.


Your right, the accident theory will never go over...also, Casey had that chance to say that and refused...

The insanity defense also can not be used, because according to Florida statute, one can not claim insanity if they hid the crime....

so, no accident....no insanity...and no Nanny....

[Kathlb]

I so agree. Plus, that one time LP was on the NG show he said something along the lines that Casey's fingerprints were all over the tape. Now I know everything Lenny says should be taken w/a grain of salt, but I find it hard to believe he would just blurt out something that important w/out anything to back it up. I guess we just have to wait and see. I still think there is some very interesting and damning evidence yet to be released by the state.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if LP was correct. In fact, in my mind, ever since they put the DP back on the table, I felt that they had just gotten word of some really incriminating evidence. And I've always been watching for more reports on the fingerprints on the duct tape. When they ruled out the family, but never mentioned Casey, I felt Uh Oh, hers are on there and they are not telling us right now. Bingo! A slam dunk for a conviction. JMHO:thumbup:

[happygert]

I believe what was said was that neither Cindy nor George's prints were on the duck tape.
Nothing about Casey's.

Exactly ! they also said lee's were not there.. but not one word about casey's..

[legalmania]

This link is better: http://www.myflsunshine.com/sun.nsf/sunmanual/1BB05D142D8E4724852566F3006C7A1A

(It addresses exemptions.)

Better for who, how is she suppose to look up case law?

[Rapunzel]

This link is better: http://www.myflsunshine.com/sun.nsf/sunmanual/1BB05D142D8E4724852566F3006C7A1A

(It addresses exemptions.)

TY!!!
Legalmania...TY too!!!

[really3997]

Your right, the accident theory will never go over...also, Casey had that chance to say that and refused...

The insanity defense also can not be used, because according to Florida statute, one can not claim insanity if they hid the crime....

so, no accident....no insanity...and no Nanny....

If it was an accident would she be smirking for the cameras when she was arrested. nope cold blood calculated.

[Barbara fl.]

No a lot of things get filed that never get into evidence.

Yes, if they weren't pertinent to the case...but anything that is to be used at trial does go into evidence and falls under discovery...therefore gets released to the public...

What ever we don't see....will not be allowed in trial...

Except photo's that could be to disturbing to the family if released...the jury will only see those...but the public will get the autopsy results stating what is in those photo's....

[Kathlb]

I also remember that at the first hearing she attended after the judge ordered her brought in, LDB mentioned the fingerprints on the tape and I definitely remember seeing a head up quickly and looking at LDB in surprise. She hadn't thought of that. UH OH...

[bchand]

Oh, I will go through them...don't know if I will understand them...but I will go through them...are you available for private tutoring???:biggrin:

You funny Rapunzel :)

s. 119.071(2)(c)1., F.S., exempts active criminal intelligence information and active criminal investigative information from public inspection. To be exempt, the information must be both "active" and constitute either "criminal investigative" or "criminal intelligence" information.


http://myfloridalegal.com/sun.nsf/manual/1BB05D142D8E4724852566F3006C7A1A

I can't see any info about finger prints being held back because they're not actively investigating. They're ready to prosecute and they have the defendant in jail already. JMO.


eta: I see Imp beat me to it!

[Barbara fl.]

If it was an accident would she be smirking for the cameras when she was arrested. nope cold blood calculated.

By no means was this an accident...I said that from the very beginning before a body was ever found...actually from the start of this whole thing....no way would a person be charged with murder one if they could get off with an accidental death....the difference is 7 years vs LWOP (even Baez would have convinced her to take that deal)...the tape is what stopped her from taking that deal...she knew she would have to take LE to the body and she knew that tape was over Caylee's head....no accident....

[legalmania]

If it was an accident would she be smirking for the cameras when she was arrested. nope cold blood calculated.

I still haven't seen where the intent comes in?

[no1what]

I also remember that at the first hearing she attended after the judge ordered her brought in, LDB mentioned the fingerprints on the tape and I definitely remember seeing a head up quickly and looking at LDB in surprise. She hadn't thought of that. UH OH...



Maybe Casey put the tape on after as one of her "the nanny" took her and put duck tape on her mouth to keep her quiet stories.

Yet why would Caylee, who loved to be with the Nanny be making noise?

I still think the dp came to the table due to finger print evidence.

[Imperfect4]

Better for who, how is she suppose to look up case law?

Give it a rest.

[Kathlb]

I still haven't seen where the intent comes in?

Try the duct tape over Caylee's mouth and nose. Are you ignoring that? Seems cut and dried to me and anyone else who hears the evidence.

[really3997]

I still haven't seen where the intent comes in?

Ok if you did not intead to kill your child would you be smirking for the cameras the first time you were arrested. That was my first impression of Casey.. and it still haunts me. Sorry she has no soul. JMO

[Dtviewer3]

Which is up to the judge what is considered evidence. Once it's filed it can be viewed by the public, but sometimes it takes a motion to get the prosecution or the defense to file something.

Stop spreading this nonsense.

What gets released to the Defense and then to the public is everything the State investigates, whether they decide it is evidence or not.

[Dells]

Your right, the accident theory will never go over...also, Casey had that chance to say that and refused...

The insanity defense also can not be used, because according to Florida statute, one can not claim insanity if they hid the crime....

so, no accident....no insanity...and no Nanny....

Bolding mine....

So true. Casey has had ample opportunity to say this was an accident. Once Caylee's body was found and the DP was put back on the table she could have said it was an accident when she saw that this was not going to look good for her. If she would have cooperated w/LE and told them all she knew (if it was an accident) then she could have gotten considerably less time in jail then the DP or LWOP that she is going to get. The only logical conclusion that I can come up w/is that she is responsible and she is trying for a "Hail Mary" defense strategy where she may get off on some technicality. It would be extremely stupid for her to take a risk like that if it wasn't an intentional murder. I think JB goofed it up for her. I truly think Casey just wanted to make this whole thing go away in the beginning and JB went along w/her. He got her in so deep that even after better, more qualified lawyers came on the case they had nothing they could do except go along w/what she and JB started.

[Rapunzel]

Try the duct tape over Caylee's mouth and nose. Are you ignoring that? Seems cut and dried to me and anyone else who hears the evidence.

I have to agree...that's what does it for me...plus the 31 days of not reporting Caylee missing.

[really3997]

I have to agree...that's what does it for me...plus the 31 days of not reporting Caylee missing.

Don't forget she was looking for Caylee at Fusion.

[really3997]

Intent....How about the 31 days that she never reported.......(Intent to cover up)

Intent...How about the 278 lies she told to investigators...(intent to thwart an investigation)

Intent....How about the Duct tape and the plastic garbage bags...( Intent to murder and hide the body)

Intent....How about the 40lbs she gained in prison....(Intent to be content).....*sorry....made that one up :)

Afternoon everyone!

Nope I would say it is about 40 lbs..I just cant show you the link:tonguewag:

[Rapunzel]

intent....how about the 31 days that she never reported.......(intent to cover up)

intent...how about the 278 lies she told to investigators...(intent to thwart an investigation)

intent....how about the duct tape and the plastic garbage bags...( intent to murder and hide the body)

intent....how about the 40lbs she gained in prison....(intent to be content).....*sorry....made that one up :)

afternoon everyone!



lmflbao!!!

[Kathlb]

*snip*

I think JB goofed it up for her. I truly think Casey just wanted to make this whole thing go away in the beginning and JB went along w/her. He got her in so deep that even after better, more qualified lawyers came on the case they had nothing they could do except go along w/what she and JB started.

True, he and she were a Two Stooges team. "Dewey, Cheatem & Howe" I think LKB is Howe, not sure yet. It could be AL. Baez is clearly out of his league here. From botched filings to bad advice and moves. (hugging the client and has to be told stop) and more. It's a comedy of errors. MOO

[Katprint]

Wonder if that can be shown in court (the duct tape with hair on it). Would that be too prejudicial? I would not like to see it, but I think you have a point. After seeing that, I have a hard time believing anyone would think it was an accident or not intentional.
Some things are inherently "prejudicial" but are not "unduly prejudicial." In other words, the probative value (how much the jury learns from looking at the evidence) is not unfairly outweighed by the natural emotions caused by viewing the evidence.

So, crime scene photos of bloody gaping wounds may be excluded (in addition to many people's strong emotional reaction to seeing blood, heavy bleeding often makes wounds look worse than they really are which lessens the probative value of such photos) while medical photos of stitched wounds and/or autopsy photos of washed wounds may be admissible. The duct tape with hair on it probably cannot be displayed wrapped around a skull but if it isn't too gory then they can probably display it on a mannequin head to show how it was wrapped the skull when the remains were discovered.

I expect the crime scene photos of the duct tape/hair/skull will probably be admissible even if the defense succeeds in preventing the actual hair/duct tape itself from being brought into the courtroom. but I also expect this entire category of evidence to be hotly litigated with pretrial motions, including motions to prevent public disclosure like the autopsy restraining orders we saw last December, and extensive motions in limine concerning admissibility.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[really3997]

Hey Legal I needed to ask you to clarify something for me that you said over the weekend. Can you tell me where the Quarry is behind the Anthony's house..I am just really confused about this. Thanks

[Imperfect4]

You funny Rapunzel :)

s. 119.071(2)(c)1., F.S., exempts active criminal intelligence information and active criminal investigative information from public inspection. To be exempt, the information must be both "active" and constitute either "criminal investigative" or "criminal intelligence" information.


http://myfloridalegal.com/sun.nsf/manual/1BB05D142D8E4724852566F3006C7A1A

I can't see any info about finger prints being held back because they're not actively investigating. They're ready to prosecute and they have the defendant in jail already. JMO.


eta: I see Imp beat me to it!

Not sure about that, bchand.

(3) Pending prosecutions or appeals

Criminal intelligence and investigative information is also considered to be "active" while such information is directly related to pending prosecutions or direct appeals. Section 119.011(3)(d), F.S. See News-Press Publishing Co., Inc. v. Sapp, supra; and Tal-Mason v. Satz, 614 So. 2d 1134 (Fla. 4th DCA), review denied, 624 So. 2d 269 (Fla. 1993) (contents of prosecutorial case file must remain secret until the conclusion of defendant's direct appeal).

[need2no]

I still haven't seen where the intent comes in?


Criminal intent may be presumed from the commission of the act.

The intent element is usually fulfilled if the defendant was generally aware that she was very likely committing a crime. This means that the prosecution need not prove that the defendant was aware of all of the elements constituting the crime.

From Dr. Stone's scale of evil:

# 7 Highly narcissistic, not distinctly psychopathic people with a psychotic core who kill people close to them (jealousy an underlying motive)


#13 Psychopathic killers with inadequate, rage-filled personalities who "snapped"

[Barbara fl.]

Bolding mine....

So true. Casey has had ample opportunity to say this was an accident. Once Caylee's body was found and the DP was put back on the table she could have said it was an accident when she saw that this was not going to look good for her. If she would have cooperated w/LE and told them all she knew (if it was an accident) then she could have gotten considerably less time in jail then the DP or LWOP that she is going to get. The only logical conclusion that I can come up w/is that she is responsible and she is trying for a "Hail Mary" defense strategy where she may get off on some technicality. It would be extremely stupid for her to take a risk like that if it wasn't an intentional murder. I think JB goofed it up for her. I truly think Casey just wanted to make this whole thing go away in the beginning and JB went along w/her. He got her in so deep that even after better, more qualified lawyers came on the case they had nothing they could do except go along w/what she and JB started.


That is correct...I just hope that Casey will not yell at the end that she had "inefficient council" to be used for an appeal...Any attorney in his right mind would have had her make a deal....but I think that the high profile status of this case cause Baez to go banana's and her saying she was not guilty of this crime fell right up his alley to be the lead attorney for such a big case....probably the biggest he will ever see, and he will be known after this....

[Dtviewer3]

Yes, if they weren't pertinent to the case...but anything that is to be used at trial does go into evidence and falls under discovery...therefore gets released to the public...

What ever we don't see....will not be allowed in trial...

Except photo's that could be to disturbing to the family if released...the jury will only see those...but the public will get the autopsy results stating what is in those photo's....


Not exactly Barb.

Whether it is going to be used at trial or not, it still falls under Discovery and MUST be turned over to the Defense at which time it becomes public record. (Whether it is pertinent to the case or not, it must be turned over.)

The State cant just say, 'well, we arent going to use that evidence so we wont turn it over to the defense'.

Both sides are still entitled to review 'everything' that was investigated.

[Scampi]

I still haven't seen where the intent comes in?

IMO, partial intent comes in with her researching how to make chloroform and then very high levels of chloroform being found on the carpet of the car trunk. Add in the duct tape found on the skull and I think it's reasonable for a jury to believe this defendant murdered her child.

[really3997]

That is correct...I just hope that Casey will not yell at the end that she had "inefficient council" to be used for an appeal...Any attorney in his right mind would have had her make a deal....but I think that the high profile status of this case cause Baez to go banana's and her saying she was not guilty of this crime fell right up his alley to be the lead attorney for such a big case....probably the biggest he will ever see, and he will be known after this....

IIRC wasn't that why she has to appear now so that she cannot claim that. Correct me if I am wrong

[Dells]

I still haven't seen where the intent comes in?

I don't think we have seen everything that the state has yet, but for me personally, I think the intent comes from the fight that Casey and Cindy had on the 15th. I don't know how much of that, if any, the state can introduce at trial. Also, the intent comes in for me in her behavior, actions, and demeanor after Caylee went missing/was murdered. Casey acted like a person that was glad her child was gone and dead, not a mother who was overcome w/grief, worry, and guilt that she had done something to cause her child's accidental death. Again, I don't know how much of that, if any, will be introduced at trial, but for me personally w/the evidence that I have seen, I truly believe on every level that this was an intentional murder and I am very interested to see how the state presents their case.

Also, I didn't want to forget the duct tape. I think the duct tape on Caylee's mouth points directly to the fact that the person her put it there wanted her dead.

[bchand]

Some things are inherently "prejudicial" but are not "unduly prejudicial." In other words, the probative value (how much the jury learns from looking at the evidence) is not unfairly outweighed by the natural emotions caused by viewing the evidence.

So, crime scene photos of bloody gaping wounds may be excluded (in addition to many people's strong emotional reaction to seeing blood, heavy bleeding often makes wounds look worse than they really are which lessens the probative value of such photos) while medical photos of stitched wounds and/or autopsy photos of washed wounds may be admissible. The duct tape with hair on it probably cannot be displayed wrapped around a skull but if it isn't too gory then they can probably display it on a mannequin head to show how it was wrapped the skull when the remains were discovered.

I expect the crime scene photos of the duct tape/hair/skull will probably be admissible even if the defense succeeds in preventing the actual hair/duct tape itself from being brought into the courtroom. but I also expect this entire category of evidence to be hotly litigated with pretrial motions, including motions to prevent public disclosure like the autopsy restraining orders we saw last December, and extensive motions in limine concerning admissibility.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions


Thanks Katprint. I was right with you until the motions inlime.

No problem, it leads me to look things up.


motion in limine

A motion made before a trial begins, asking the court to decide whether particular evidence will be admissible. A motion in limine is most often made to exclude evidence by a party who believes that evidence would prejudice the jury against him or her. For example, a defendant in a criminal trial might make a motion in limine to exclude evidence of previous crimes.

(For all of us laypersons, this site may come in handy.)
http://www.nolopress.com/nolopedia/dictionary.do?content_id=M

[sydney]

Exactly n2n.. defense would have already taken that evidence to the Judge and asked for either a bond reduction or a dismissal of the murder charge.. DA would have not put the DP back on the table either.. defense would be screaming to the media at the top of their lungs "Prints found on duct tape DOES NOT MATCH OUR CLIENTS!".

good day everyone!

hey, gert - even if there are other prints found on the duct tape, that would not mean kc isn't complicit in the murder of caylee.

and you can bet if there were other prints that were identifiable, le would have to be checking these people out.

[Deannalynn]

I thought the evidence was turned over as the defense request certain pieces of evidence and they haven't requested this evidence because they know the detail findings.

I don't think the defense team has all the evidence that the State is holding. I sure wish we knew what the defense's plans are and which way they plan to go for their client.
It slays me that Casey sits up next to Baez writing little notes and whispering to him every time the state gets up with an argument.
She still doesn't have a clue (just like Cindy and George) the magnitude of this trial forthcoming. moo
June or July of next year.:rolleyes: Whooe. Another year in the slammer Casey with your pork rinds and cup o' soup. Maybe Cindy will send her a JC Penny catalog to look at for beach wear.:lol:

[legalmania]

Yes, if they weren't pertinent to the case...but anything that is to be used at trial does go into evidence and falls under discovery...therefore gets released to the public...

What ever we don't see....will not be allowed in trial...

Except photo's that could be to disturbing to the family if released...the jury will only see those...but the public will get the autopsy results stating what is in those photo's....

Isn't that what I said? Photos that are disturbing to the family get released remember Nicole. There is always somebody out there that can either hack in or take bribes.

[Barbara fl.]

Not exactly Barb.

Whether it is going to be used at trial or not, it still falls under Discovery and MUST be turned over to the Defense at which time it becomes public record. (Whether it is pertinent to the case or not, it must be turned over.)

The State cant just say, 'well, we arent going to use that evidence so we wont turn it over to the defense'.

Both sides are still entitled to review 'everything' that was investigated.


Yes, I agree...I was answering a poster as to whether everything had to be released...The point I was making was that if it wasn't released in the discovery then it wouldn't be allowed in the trial...i.e. if the defense had evidence they didn't give over to the prosecution, it can be taken out completely and not be allowed into the trial....anything that is to be used at the trial must be turned over prior to the trial...or they risk not haveing it at all... no surprises....

[Dtviewer3]

Yes, I agree...I was answering a poster as to whether everything had to be released...The point I was making was that if it wasn't released in the discovery then it wouldn't be allowed in the trial...i.e. if the defense had evidence they didn't give over to the prosecution, it can be taken out completely and not be allowed into the trial....anything that is to be used at the trial must be turned over prior to the trial...or they risk not haveing it at all... no surprises....

I knew thats what you were saying just the posts were getting hard to follow because of the nonsense some other poster is spewing.............

[Deannalynn]

That is correct...I just hope that Casey will not yell at the end that she had "inefficient council" to be used for an appeal...Any attorney in his right mind would have had her make a deal....but I think that the high profile status of this case cause Baez to go banana's and her saying she was not guilty of this crime fell right up his alley to be the lead attorney for such a big case....probably the biggest he will ever see, and he will be known after this....

Cindy has that one in her back pocket, you betcha! moo

[kakax]

Some things are inherently "prejudicial" but are not "unduly prejudicial." In other words, the probative value (how much the jury learns from looking at the evidence) is not unfairly outweighed by the natural emotions caused by viewing the evidence.

So, crime scene photos of bloody gaping wounds may be excluded (in addition to many people's strong emotional reaction to seeing blood, heavy bleeding often makes wounds look worse than they really are which lessens the probative value of such photos) while medical photos of stitched wounds and/or autopsy photos of washed wounds may be admissible. The duct tape with hair on it probably cannot be displayed wrapped around a skull but if it isn't too gory then they can probably display it on a mannequin head to show how it was wrapped the skull when the remains were discovered.

I expect the crime scene photos of the duct tape/hair/skull will probably be admissible even if the defense succeeds in preventing the actual hair/duct tape itself from being brought into the courtroom. but I also expect this entire category of evidence to be hotly litigated with pretrial motions, including motions to prevent public disclosure like the autopsy restraining orders we saw last December, and extensive motions in limine concerning admissibility.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions


As always, thanks Kat! Oh the things we have to look forward to!

Do you think that LKB estimate of June or July of next year is an ambitous one? I would love for it to be then, just don't want to get my hopes up!

[Barbara fl.]

IIRC wasn't that why she has to appear now so that she cannot claim that. Correct me if I am wrong


I'm really not too sure about that, maybe Lapis or Katprint could help with this one...

I would think that the judge only wants Casey present so that she couldn't later say that she wasn't aware of something that was going on pertaining to her case....that may be a little different that inefficent council...but I'm not sure......

Baez last client is claiming that after being found guilty of murder...

[Rapunzel]

Yes, I agree...I was answering a poster as to whether everything had to be released...The point I was making was that if it wasn't released in the discovery then it wouldn't be allowed in the trial...i.e. if the defense had evidence they didn't give over to the prosecution, it can be taken out completely and not be allowed into the trial....anything that is to be used at the trial must be turned over prior to the trial...or they risk not haveing it at all... no surprises....


OK...let me ask this...the trial will prolly not be until June/July next year...say the State had these fingerprints...can they hold it back for awhile??? Say not turn it over till the first of the year??? As an ongoing investigation can't they say they just determined it with a forensic lab???

[Barbara fl.]

Isn't that what I said? Photos that are disturbing to the family get released remember Nicole. There is always somebody out there that can either hack in or take bribes.


With all due respect Legalmania, we have been posting together for a long time......Do you need a hug..?:shrug:

[summer]

Intent....How about the 31 days that she never reported.......(Intent to cover up)

Intent...How about the 278 lies she told to investigators...(intent to thwart an investigation)

Intent....How about the Duct tape and the plastic garbage bags...( Intent to murder and hide the body)

Intent....How about the 40lbs she gained in prison....(Intent to be content).....*sorry....made that one up :)

Afternoon everyone!

I keep reminding myself she NEVER reported her baby missing! 31 days could've been 3000 days if Cindy hadn't made that call.

Just read through the thread and something for Barbara FL (hi barb!)... you mention the jury might not go for DP to spare the grandmothers' feelings but after thinking about it I think it might be the factor that does give the DP a better chance. It just HIGHLIGHTS the fact that Casey never told anyone Caylee was missing. That SOMEONE ELSE made that call. It just lights the whole thing up for me and I think it will also for the jury.

Also, by the time Cindy gets off the stand no one is going to give two hoots about her. Just JMO.

[Barbara fl.]

OK...let me ask this...the trial will prolly not be until June/July next year...say the State had these fingerprints...can they hold it back for awhile??? Say not turn it over till the first of the year??? As an ongoing investigation can't they say they just determined it with a forensic lab???


I personally do not think there would be any logical reason to do that...but I may be wrong.....

[legalmania]

Thanks Katprint. I was right with you until the motions inlime.

No problem, it leads me to look things up.


motion in limine

A motion made before a trial begins, asking the court to decide whether particular evidence will be admissible. A motion in limine is most often made to exclude evidence by a party who believes that evidence would prejudice the jury against him or her. For example, a defendant in a criminal trial might make a motion in limine to exclude evidence of previous crimes.

(For all of us laypersons, this site may come in handy.)
http://www.nolopress.com/nolopedia/dictionary.do?content_id=M

When I served on a jury once they asked us before they started picking jurors if anyone had a problem with blood, well if I would have known how much blood I was gonna see in super size pictures I would have not served on that jury. One lady lost her lunch, everybody was sick that week.

[summer]

OT I'm still a relative newbie here but can I say how delighted I am to have found the ignore feature? It's like a little slice of heaven. Thank you.

[Dtviewer3]

OT I'm still a relative newbie here but can I say how delighted I am to have found the ignore feature? It's like a little slice of heaven. Thank you.

Imagine how nice it would be if that button also worked to 'ignore' Cindy Anthony?

LOL....no one grates my nerves like that woman.........

[Barbara fl.]

I keep reminding myself she NEVER reported her baby missing! 31 days could've been 3000 days if Cindy hadn't made that call.

Just read through the thread and something for Barbara FL (hi barb!)... you mention the jury might not go for DP to spare the grandmothers' feelings but after thinking about it I think it might be the factor that does give the DP a better chance. It just HIGHLIGHTS the fact that Casey never told anyone Caylee was missing. That SOMEONE ELSE made that call. It just lights the whole thing up for me and I think it will also for the jury.

Also, by the time Cindy gets off the stand no one is going to give two hoots about her. Just JMO.

I agree that Cindy is not a likable person and would probably not make a good witness for the pros on the stand...but in the impact statements, I think that the judge will forgive alot of what Cindy and George have done to try and protect their daughter (we may never forgive them) but the judge will probably not want to lay that burden on the mother who was the one that called 911 and turned her daughter in...and then receives the death penalty...

That is only my point of view, i'm sure alot may disagree....

[summer]

Some things are inherently "prejudicial" but are not "unduly prejudicial." In other words, the probative value (how much the jury learns from looking at the evidence) is not unfairly outweighed by the natural emotions caused by viewing the evidence.

So, crime scene photos of bloody gaping wounds may be excluded (in addition to many people's strong emotional reaction to seeing blood, heavy bleeding often makes wounds look worse than they really are which lessens the probative value of such photos) while medical photos of stitched wounds and/or autopsy photos of washed wounds may be admissible. The duct tape with hair on it probably cannot be displayed wrapped around a skull but if it isn't too gory then they can probably display it on a mannequin head to show how it was wrapped the skull when the remains were discovered.

I expect the crime scene photos of the duct tape/hair/skull will probably be admissible even if the defense succeeds in preventing the actual hair/duct tape itself from being brought into the courtroom. but I also expect this entire category of evidence to be hotly litigated with pretrial motions, including motions to prevent public disclosure like the autopsy restraining orders we saw last December, and extensive motions in limine concerning admissibility.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Hi Katprint - do you think there's any way the defense could be successful in keeping any of Casey's phone visits with her parents (calling you all a waste... huge waste... gimme Tony's number") or her interviews with LE ("what, did you think Caylee would hail a cab to Universal?") those interviews -- out?

[legalmania]

Oh Legal, c´mon! That was a bad one don´t you think?
LL
imo



How is your health. Better it seems ?

Well somebody said something about death and screaming. I only feel better because they have me on this cough syrup with codeine. How long does it take to beat this? They told me to stay away at work, but they keep calling. Thanks for asking.

[really3997]

OT I'm still a relative newbie here but can I say how delighted I am to have found the ignore feature? It's like a little slice of heaven. Thank you.

As long as you don't ignore me... I would be sad... Does anyone have the info on whatever the A's are suppose to be attending today. I thought I would have heard about thier cameo by now...:wink:

[Imperfect4]

OT I'm still a relative newbie here but can I say how delighted I am to have found the ignore feature? It's like a little slice of heaven. Thank you.

It hasn't been needed in months. <sigh>

[summer]

I agree that Cindy is not a likable person and would probably not make a good witness for the pros on the stand...but in the impact statements, I think that the judge will forgive alot of what Cindy and George have done to try and protect their daughter (we may never forgive them) but the judge will probably not want to lay that burden on the mother who was the one that called 911 and turned her daughter in...and then receives the death penalty...

That is only my point of view, i'm sure alot may disagree....

Hmmm... well we'll never know until the trial but I can't imagine after all the hideous testimony and evidence (and I believe zero character witnesses) anyone is going to spare Casey anything (if the case is proven) no matter how they feel about Cindy. Even if she was a nice (choke) lady it would floor me to think much weight would be put toward her feelings!

So many nice loving moms I'm sure have testified for and sobbed for their children now sitting on death row. Well, we shall see.. :wub:

[summer]

It hasn't been needed in months. <sigh>

sigh. :mad:

[summer]

As long as you don't ignore me... I would be sad... Does anyone have the info on whatever the A's are suppose to be attending today. I thought I would have heard about thier cameo by now...:wink:

nevah! :wub:

[Rapunzel]

It hasn't been needed in months. <sigh>

I don't need it either...:mellow:

[Katprint]

As always, thanks Kat! Oh the things we have to look forward to!

Do you think that LKB estimate of June or July of next year is an ambitous one? I would love for it to be then, just don't want to get my hopes up!
As a strategic matter, you generally don't want to tell a judge that it will take more than a year for you to be ready for trial. Judges want the cases to move faster than that, and if you tell the judge you will need 18 months or two years to get ready, the judge may hold your feet to the fire and make you explain why you need so much time and exactly what you plan to be doing. So if you are asking for more time and the judge wants to know when you will be ready, you tell him 3 months or 6 months at the most. Then, in 3 months or 6 months you tell him that things were not able to be accomplished as quickly as you had hoped - maybe throw in that it is the other side's fault that things went slowly - and so you need another 3 months or 6 months. Rinse, repeat as necessary.

Of course, Casey Anthony is in custody awaiting trial so she gains little from interminable delay. Casey has already begun serving her sentence - whatever it ends up being - on the installment plan. Also, I think the delay is harmful to the defense because it is giving the prosecution time to discover more and more evidence, track down more and more witnesses, etc. By contrast, when OJ was in custody awaiting trial on his murder case, his counsel invoked his speedy trial rights and they were able to force his case to trial before the prosecution could really get their act together, which IMO was a factor in his acquittal. His robbery/kidnapping case didn't go as fast - perhaps because he wasn't in pretrial custody so he wasn't pushing his attorneys to make it happen - and lo and behold he was found guilty on all 12 counts.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[need2no]

Hmmm... well we'll never know until the trial but I can't imagine after all the hideous testimony and evidence (and I believe zero character witnesses) anyone is going to spare Casey anything (if the case is proven) no matter how they feel about Cindy. Even if she was a nice (choke) lady it would floor me to think much weight would be put toward her feelings!

So many nice loving moms I'm sure have testified for and sobbed for their children now sitting on death row. Well, we shall see.. :wub:

I agree Summer, and what it comes down to IMO is whether sparing Cindy/George's feelings outweighs justice for Caylee. I think that Barbara may have been making the point that Judge Strickland makes the final call and he may debunk the juries recommendation of death.

ETA: Has anyone else noticed how Strickland mainly looks down when George is speaking, rather than looking AT him?

[Katprint]

Hi Katprint - do you think there's any way the defense could be successful in keeping any of Casey's phone visits with her parents (calling you all a waste... huge waste... gimme Tony's number") or her interviews with LE ("what, did you think Caylee would hail a cab to Universal?") those interviews -- out?
Yes, to the extent that the dialogue being discussed is not relevant then it can be kept out. In theory, only relevant evidence is admissible. If the evidence merely shows that Casey is an obnoxious person - like Casey's "waste" remark, for example - that is probably not legally relevant and may not be admissible. OTOH, if the prosecution can demonstrate relevance to the case or to put another piece of evidence in context or some other proper purpose then it will come in.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[legalmania]

Hey Legal I needed to ask you to clarify something for me that you said over the weekend. Can you tell me where the Quarry is behind the Anthony's house..I am just really confused about this. Thanks

OK goggle earth there is a road just behind that row of houses. You'll see some man made lakes and some rocks. I call it a quarry. Please lets not discuss what a quarry is I really could care less.

[summer]

Yes, to the extent that the dialogue being discussed is not relevant then it can be kept out. In theory, only relevant evidence is admissible. If the evidence merely shows that Casey is an obnoxious person - like Casey's "waste" remark, for example - that is probably not legally relevant and may not be admissible. OTOH, if the prosecution can demonstrate relevance to the case or to put another piece of evidence in context or some other proper purpose then it will come in.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Thanks, that's what I thought. Another question though -- if portions of the tapes are in context would they be edited or would the entire tapes come in at that point?

[summer]

I agree Summer, and what it comes down to IMO is whether sparing Cindy/George's feelings outweighs justice for Caylee. I think that Barbara may have been making the point that Judge Strickland makes the final call and he may debunk the juries recommendation of death.

ETA: Has anyone else noticed how Strickland mainly looks down when George is speaking, rather than looking AT him?

Yes, definitely is a possibility... as far as Strickland, I personally think he can't stand the blatant attempts at manipulation not to mention the downright lies. His way of politely not giving it credence is to look down...

[legalmania]

:rose: *hug*

Hope you feel better soon...kick the roommate out for about a week...:biggrin:

Thank you Rapunzel, I would love to kick the roommate but I need someone to go shopping and run my stuff to the courthouse and work. Working from home has it's good and bad points.

[need2no]

Yes, definitely is a possibility... as far as Strickland, I personally think he can't stand the blatant attempts at manipulation not to mention the downright lies. His way of politely not giving it credence is to look down...

ITA on both points.

[Katprint]

Thanks, that's what I thought. Another question though -- if portions of the tapes are in context would they be edited or would the entire tapes come in at that point?
They will be edited or "redacted." I would expect the prosecution to have digitized recordings but if not, they will be cued up just like a DJ does when playing music.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[summer]

They will be edited or "redacted." I would expect the prosecution to have digitized recordings but if not, they will be cued up just like a DJ does when playing music.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

OK. Darn. (I so hope all the tapes come in -- in their entirety because they are so shockingly damning.)

Thanks.

[Imperfect4]

I don't need it either...:mellow:

Then you're not as bothered by talk of drug cartels as some of the rest of us. lol

[Dtviewer3]

Then you're not as bothered by talk of drug cartels as some of the rest of us. lol

You mean I'm not the only one??????

[Dells]

I agree that Cindy is not a likable person and would probably not make a good witness for the pros on the stand...but in the impact statements, I think that the judge will forgive alot of what Cindy and George have done to try and protect their daughter (we may never forgive them) but the judge will probably not want to lay that burden on the mother who was the one that called 911 and turned her daughter in...and then receives the death penalty...

That is only my point of view, i'm sure alot may disagree....

Barbara, I totally see where you are coming from. I just wonder how apt the judge would be to rule against the jury if they do in fact vote for the DP? I think Cindy would have to reach the jurors first in getting them not to recommend the DP, and IIRC they don't have to be unanimous in their decision. Either way, whether it is LWOP or the DP I will be satisfied w/the sentence. I think that both are equally fitting punishments for the heinous act that Casey committed.

[Imperfect4]

You mean I'm not the only one??????

Not hardly.

[Katprint]

Imagine how nice it would be if that button also worked to 'ignore' Cindy Anthony?

LOL....no one grates my nerves like that woman.........
Every time Baez appears in court or speaks to the media, he grates on my nerves at least as much as Cindy does. In particular I dislike Baez' self-aggrandizement and gratuitous insulting of the other attorneys, each of whom have probably been practicing for at least twice as long as Baez' has been.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[really3997]

OK goggle earth there is a road just behind that row of houses. You'll see some man made lakes and some rocks. I call it a quarry. Please lets not discuss what a quarry is I really could care less.

Holy cranky batman...I just wanted to point out that houses exist there now..

[Imperfect4]

Every time Baez appears in court or speaks to the media, he grates on my nerves at least as much as Cindy does. In particular I dislike Baez' self-aggrandizement and gratuitous insulting of the other attorneys, each of whom have probably been practicing for at least twice as long as Baez' has been.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Wonder why it is liars and buffoons always have so much more to say than the rest of us? :rolleyes:

[need2no]

Yes yes! I don't think the prosecution will have to try very hard to show Cindy's duplicity. Her fingerprints (metaphorically) are all over this case and not in a flattering light. I think the jury will *get* who she is and her actions all the way through, regardless of her 9th hour academy award performance when she pleads for Casey's life. I hope they are saavy about human psychology. I know Judge Strickland is.


~my bold~

And can you imagine Lee's next academy award winning performance at the penalty phase of the trial, complete with wrist kissing and wailing CMA, CMA, CMA. They may have to haul him out of there in a straight jacket.

[summer]

Every time Baez appears in court or speaks to the media, he grates on my nerves at least as much as Cindy does. In particular I dislike Baez' self-aggrandizement and gratuitous insulting of the other attorneys, each of whom have probably been practicing for at least twice as long as Baez' has been.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

You being an attorney it must be particularly irritating. Cubed.

[summer]

~my bold~

And can you imagine Lee's next academy award winning performance at the penalty phase of the trial, complete with wrist kissing and wailing CMA, CMA, CMA. They may have to haul him out of there in a straight jacket.

On the day of penalty phase it'll be like the clown car just pulled into the courtroom and all the jackazzes pile out.

[legalmania]

Then you're not as bothered by talk of drug cartels as some of the rest of us. lol

Stop bringing it up. I wouldn't use the word cartels, even they are to good for Casey.

[Imperfect4]

~my bold~

And can you imagine Lee's next academy award winning performance at the penalty phase of the trial, complete with wrist kissing and wailing CMA, CMA, CMA. They may have to haul him out of there in a straight jacket.

"CMAAAAAAA! You taught me how to live!"

<retch>

Yeah, okay Lee. Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the state of Florida is fixing to teach your CMA how to do the reverse.

[ish]

Richard Hornsby doesn't believe that the State has proven that an accidental death did not occur and that the only answer was intentional murder. I guess the duct tape doesn't prove that to him.

She's dead. Unless Casey wants to tell us how she died "accidently" and unless the defense can produce evidence to show she died "accidently",(without testimony from Casey), and since we don't know how she died (per autopsy), I think to say the prosecution can't get a murder conviction is ridiculous. All the circumstances and the BEHAVIOR of Casey show that an accident is the least likely situation.

If it were an accident and Casey was afraid to come forth, I would think the method that she disposed of the body would be very different, more care would have been taken to wrap her up and even bury her instead of just tossing her like trash.

[need2no]

Holy cranky batman...I just wanted to point out that houses exist there now..

IIRC, legal was the one who brought up the quarry in the 1st place, now she doesn't want to discuss what a quarry is and could care less. Hmmmm.....

[Imperfect4]

Stop bringing it up. I wouldn't use the word cartels, even they are to good for Casey.

Your cranky-and-sick excuse isn't flying with me. Sell it elsewhere.

[cherish]

The Evidence You’re Not Allowed to See

http://63.119.11.61/blogs-and-stories/2009-06-21/the-evidence-yoursquore-not-allowed-to-see/?cid=tag:all1

[summer]

"CMAAAAAAA! You taught me how to live!"

<retch>

Yeah, okay Lee. Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the state of Florida is fixing to teach your CMA how to do the reverse.

HA HA - I gotta cop to the fact that I never watched that *show*. I couldn't stand the thought of it... but I swear I'll watch Lee's performance after the trial is done. OMG the picture in my mind of it is too bizarre!

[need2no]

"CMAAAAAAA! You taught me how to live!"

<retch>

Yeah, okay Lee. Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the state of Florida is fixing to teach your CMA how to do the reverse.



:laugh:

Good thing the impact statements are reviewed in advance and must be approved. I suspect at least 1/2 of what the Anthony's want to say will not get approval. Why does that make me :biggrin:?

[Dtviewer3]

IIRC, legal was the one who brought up the quarry in the 1st place, now she doesn't want to discuss what a quarry is and could care less. Hmmmm.....


Shocking isnt it.................

[summer]

She's dead. Unless Casey wants to tell us how she died "accidently" and unless the defense can produce evidence to show she died "accidently",(without testimony from Casey), and since we don't know how she died (per autopsy), I think to say the prosecution can't get a murder conviction is ridiculous. All the circumstances and the BEHAVIOR of Casey show that an accident is the least likely situation.

If it were an accident and Casey was afraid to come forth, I would think the method that she disposed of the body would be very different, more care would have been taken to wrap her up and even bury her instead of just tossing her like trash.

I think about that often. The only chance they have to prove a crazy accident theory would be if Casey tells it in her own words on the stand... and that ain't happening.

[summer]

:laugh:

Good thing the impact statements are reviewed in advance and must be approved. I suspect at least 1/2 of what the Anthony's want to say will not get approval. Why does that make me :biggrin:?

I did not know that!!!