All things michael jackson 5

[Buzzzzzz]

CW said we could start a new thread but she cant promise how long it will be open because the other one was OT and unacceptable. So lets play nice. :)

[retiredcop]

Mary J. Blige -- Jackson Concert Denial?:rolleyes:

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/09/jermaine-jackson-mary-j-blige-michael-jackson-tribute-video/

[Cindylee]

CW said we could start a new thread but she cant promise how long it will be open because the other one was OT and unacceptable. So lets play nice. :)

Good job Buzzzzzzzzz. We can do it. LOL

[RootBeer]

i like the name of this thread because it says jackson 5 at the end. lol :thumbsup:

[Cindylee]

Mary J. Blige -- Jackson Concert Denial?:rolleyes:

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/09/jermaine-jackson-mary-j-blige-michael-jackson-tribute-video/

So do we know of anyone who WILL be there other than Jermaine?

[Cindylee]

i like the name of this thread because it says jackson 5 at the end. lol :thumbsup::laugh::laugh:

[retiredcop]

I have been doing some research and can't find out what happened in court today. Looks like RadarOnline is not updating.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/katherine-jackson-camp-going-court-wednesday-wants-say-michaels-estate

[Imperfect4]

So do we know of anyone who WILL be there other than Jermaine?

Geez, what an embarrassment. This is about Jermaine, imo, not Michael. I think if an MJ tribute concert were planned by a legitimate organization, or even Janet, more entertainers would agree to perform.

I would think? :huh:

[Imperfect4]

------------

Jermaine and his brothers and sisters. lol

Not so sure about the brothers and sisters (other than Jermaine).

[Cindylee]

------------

Jermaine and his brothers and sisters. lol Is Janet going to be there???

[Cindylee]

Geez, what an embarrassment. This is about Jermaine, imo, not Michael. I think if an MJ tribute concert were planned by a legitimate organization, or even Janet, more entertainers would agree to perform.

I would think? :huh:

I think if they had waited a bit, it would have been better. But, I am sure people will show up. All I see with the Jackson's, even Janet is $$$$$.

[Imperfect4]

I have been doing some research and can't find out what happened in court today. Looks like RadarOnline is not updating.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/katherine-jackson-camp-going-court-wednesday-wants-say-michaels-estate

All's quiet on the Dr. Murray front as well.

[Cindylee]

-----------------

Who knows anymore..............people may start asking for refunds on their ticket purchases. imo

Didn't we read the other day that there is a clause in the ticket refund that no refunds would be given due to who is there, or not there??? Or, something like that???

[Imperfect4]

I think if they had waited a bit, it would have been better. But, I am sure people will show up. All I see with the Jackson's, even Janet is $$$$$.

I think you have a lot of company. People are on to the Jacksons, imo. It's mildly interesting that other entertainers don't want to associate themselves with Jermaine's event, though. At least to me.

[Imperfect4]

Didn't we read the other day that there is a clause in the ticket refund that no refunds would be given due to who is there, or not there??? Or, something like that???

Oooh. That could upset some folks who didn't read the fine print, as all the big names Jermaine mentioned jump ship (if they were ever on it).

[Cindylee]

Oooh. That could upset some folks who didn't read the fine print, as all the big names Jermaine mentioned jump ship (if they were ever on it).

Oh yeah. There was a link here somewhere, but I don't remember where. :shrug: I'll look.

[Cindylee]

I didn't find the ticket thing yet, but I found this:


http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/jermaine-jackson-defends-tribute-concert-planned-for-michael/

September 9, 2009, 11:56 am
Jermaine Jackson Defends Tribute Concert Planned for Michael
By Dave Itzkoff
Jermaine Jackson

One day after announcing some of the performers who are to headline a tribute concert for Michael Jackson in Austria later this month, the singer’s brother Jermaine Jackson denied that Mary J. Blige and Chris Brown would be unable to attend and that the concert had lost the support of some members of the Jackson family, Reuters reported. At a press conference in London on Wednesday, Jermaine Jackson said that though Ms. Blige would be at a fashion event in Italy on Sept. 26, she would fly to Vienna to perform at the Schönbrunn Palace that night. Mr. Jackson also said that Chris Brown, who in August was sentenced to probation for assaulting the pop star Rihanna, would perform at the tribute if he is given permission to leave the United States. “It’s just up to what he’s going through with his court case right now,” Mr. Jackson said, according to Reuters. “He’s definitely going to be here.” He also said that the Jackson family matriarch, Katherine, was in favor of the concert “from the very start.”

[Cindylee]

OK and here you can read all about the big show.


http://www.tribute2009.com/

Here are the terms and conditions on the ticket sales...........


GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS
All ticket purchasers hereby acknowledge and agree that all artists who will perform at THE TRIBUTE will be announced as described above. Jermaine Jackson and the producers will make every attempt to present some of the world’s leading artists, however there is no right or legal claim whatsoever that certain artists will perform at THE TRIBUTE. All ticket sales are final. Any refund or discount due to the performance or non-performance of a specific artist is hereby explicitly excluded. To minimize the risk of unauthorized ticket sales, tickets will be buffered, and made available in stages. Terms and Conditions of OeTicket apply.

[retiredcop]

I think anything Jackson is falling out of media interest. Nothing on the court case. Nothing on the investigation. Just plain nothing.

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

I think anything Jackson is falling out of media interest. Nothing on the court case. Nothing on the investigation. Just plain nothing.

in my opinion\

It seems so. But, I am sure that someone is working on the legal stuff. Is Gerry Brown still on the case???

[Cindylee]

--------------------

Chris Brown............yeah.........theres a real winner. lol imo

Yeah, I would pay good money to see Chris Brown. The only one that I would pay to see maybe is Natalie Cole.

[Imperfect4]

Gosh, not even Chris Brown? :blushing:

Welcome back! :seeya:

[February]

Whatever the Jacksons do or do not do, is their business and I wish them well.
I can't imagine losing a loved one and having the media/public scrutinize, condemn, lie and spread rumors while I am grieving.

I read an excerpt from a book by Jermaines ex-wife and each brother was paid $5 million dollars for the victory tour and they invested well, so I'm sure they ain't hurtin' for money as some keep reporting.

[flipflop]

Janet Jackson Takes Control: Her First Interview Since Michael Jackson's Death

As Janet Jackson prepares to perform a tribute to Michael Jackson at Sunday's MTV Video Music Awards, Harper's Bazaar publishes her first interview since his tragic death, finding the iconic pop star ready to embrace her new reality and share memories of her brother

By Laura Brown, Harper's Bazaar

The last time Janet saw Michael was on May 14, two days before her 43rd birthday. "We had so much fun that day," she says, her soft voice almost inaudible. "We kept calling each other after and saying how great it was." One of the most moving images from the memorial service was of Michael's daughter, Paris,


http://music.msn.com/janet-jackson-interview/photo-gallery/feature/?GT1=28102

more at link

[flipflop]

Neverland Owners Make Trademark Move

Posted Sep 10th 2009 1:50AM by TMZ Staff

The company that owns Neverland Ranch hasn't gotten permission to turn Michael Jackson's old stomping grounds into a tourist attraction -- but they just filed a bunch of trademarks with the U.S. Patent Office just in case they do.



We just got our hands on trademark applications filed by the Sycamore Valley Ranch Company -- a company started by Colony Capital and Michael Jackson -- who is attempting to lock down the following names to use with the property: Neverland Ranch, Neverland Valley, Neverland Valley Ranch, and Neverland.

Sycamore also filed paperwork requesting to use the four Neverland names on several products and services including:

1) "Museum services - namely opening a museum in Michael Jackson's former home and providing tours ... providing theme park services."

2) Printed material (post cards, greeting cards, bags, non-fiction books about Michael Jackson, etc.)

3) Games and playthings (toys, dolls, roller skates, toy rockets, board games, playing cards, etc.)

4) For "providing facilities for business meetings and conferences ... retail and online retail store services ... mail order catalog services in the field of novelty, gift, and souvenir items"

5) Clothing, footwear, headgear

But don't get too excited yet -- we spoke with several members of the Jackson family who claim they were never asked permission by SVRC. In fact, Joe Jackson made it very clear, "Colony Capital cannot do this without our permission."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0Qi8zbH7R

[retiredcop]

Gosh, not even Chris Brown? :blushing:


Welcome DG!:thumbsup:

[warhorse46]

Neverland Owners Make Trademark Move

Posted Sep 10th 2009 1:50AM by TMZ Staff

The company that owns Neverland Ranch hasn't gotten permission to turn Michael Jackson's old stomping grounds into a tourist attraction -- but they just filed a bunch of trademarks with the U.S. Patent Office just in case they do.



We just got our hands on trademark applications filed by the Sycamore Valley Ranch Company -- a company started by Colony Capital and Michael Jackson -- who is attempting to lock down the following names to use with the property: Neverland Ranch, Neverland Valley, Neverland Valley Ranch, and Neverland.

Sycamore also filed paperwork requesting to use the four Neverland names on several products and services including:

1) "Museum services - namely opening a museum in Michael Jackson's former home and providing tours ... providing theme park services."

2) Printed material (post cards, greeting cards, bags, non-fiction books about Michael Jackson, etc.)

3) Games and playthings (toys, dolls, roller skates, toy rockets, board games, playing cards, etc.)

4) For "providing facilities for business meetings and conferences ... retail and online retail store services ... mail order catalog services in the field of novelty, gift, and souvenir items"

5) Clothing, footwear, headgear

But don't get too excited yet -- we spoke with several members of the Jackson family who claim they were never asked permission by SVRC. In fact, Joe Jackson made it very clear, "Colony Capital cannot do this without our permission."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0Qi8zbH7R


If they own Neverland, why do they need the permission of the Jackson family to do what ever they want with it?

[Cindylee]

If they own Neverland, why do they need the permission of the Jackson family to do what ever they want with it?

The estate stills owns part of it, I think. 25% or something like that.

[warhorse46]

The estate stills owns part of it, I think. 25% or something like that.

Oh ok then that would make sense. I thought the company owned 100%.

[warhorse46]

Colony Capital and MJ entered a joint venture for the Neverland property. Tom Barrack of Colony Capital bought the mortgage to keep it from foreclosing and now that MJ is deceased; the joint venture is with the estate. I was looking for the original article but cannot find it but this refers to a "joint venture" as well. I believe the split was 60/40 (40 MJ)

"The project is tentatively called Sycamore Valley Ranch, LLC - the title of a joint venture Jackson entered into with the firm to save Neverland from foreclosure last year (08), and the name of the property before Jackson bought it in 1987."

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/story/jermaine-jackson-leading-talks-for-neverland-museum---reports_1115498


Thanks, it makes sense now that the Jackson family would have a say in what is done with Neverland.

[Unperson1984]

Oh ok then that would make sense. I thought the company owned 100%.

Sycamore Valley Ranch, LLC does own 100%, Jackson owned 40% of Sycamore. Depending on the partnership agreement, Sycamore may be within their legal rights.

[retiredcop]

Thanks, it makes sense now that the Jackson family would have a say in what is done with Neverland.

Actually, the Jackson family has NO say in anything. The executors of the estate have all the say.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Since there is no information on the court hearing yesterday, I assume it didn't happen. I can't find out anything about it.

in my opinion

[Unperson1984]

Actually, the Jackson family has NO say in anything. The executors of the estate have all the say.

in my opinion

And it's quite possible that the executors agreed to these actions to stop the name from being exploited. Maybe they forgot to consult with Joe.

[retiredcop]

And it's quite possible that the executors agreed to these actions to stop the name from being exploited. Maybe they forgot to consult with Joe.

That must be it.:biggrin:

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

Jackson Family Upset Over MJ Charities

Posted Sep 10th 2009 8:45AM by TMZ Staff

Michael JacksonMichael Jackson's family is upset over the charities that are supposed to get 20% of Michael's estate -- that's what family sources tell TMZ.

Here's the deal -- the family's concern is premature. No charities have been picked yet and no money will be donated for somewhere between 1 and 2 years.

Under the terms of the trust, Michael gave charities 20% of the value of his estate. Problem is -- no one knows how much the estate is worth and until it's determined, no money will go to any charity.

The creditor's claims are still being filed and we're told it will take between 1 and 2 years for the state and the probate judge to settle the creditor's claims and determine the net value of the estate.

As for who decides which charities get the 20% -- we've learned the trust provides for a committee of three people who will make that decision -- Katherine Jackson and co-executors John Branca and John McClain.

The trust doesn't specify how decisions are made if the committee is divided. It could be majority rule, it could be that each committee member gets to pick a certain number of charities or they could set other ground rules.

Go figure -- Michael Jackson didn't account for the possibility that people in his world might disagree.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0Qia0Fe5b

[Emerald]

Actually, the Jackson family has NO say in anything. The executors of the estate have all the say.

in my opinion

Yep. I agree.

If anyone of the MJ extended Family has a say, it MIGHT be Katherine. The 3 children are the immediate Family.

In any case, Joe Jackson has absolutely no say in anything and could screw it up for his meal ticket Katherine if he doesn't back off. MJ may have been a spendthrift, but he did well in setting up his will the way he did.

Joe Jackson is just blowing hot air. The executors know it, too. The only reason it is reported is because of the public's interest.

MJ is news. The Jackson Family is an entertaining clown distraction. Paris, Prince and Blanket are the real news, IMO. They have proved to not be stupid or easily shoved around.

At the recent funeral, the seats were obviously designated. Prince went to sit beside his Grandmother. LaToya shoved him aside to the end of the row. He came back and moved LaToya away. Janet was not sitting with them. Nor does she even acknowledge Joe, Katherine and LaToya. Looked like there is some serious dissension in that crowd. Janet has the means, wherewithal and power to rebuke the authority the extended Family tries weild over those children. IMO, she will too.

JMO

[retiredcop]

Jackson Family Upset Over MJ Charities

Posted Sep 10th 2009 8:45AM by TMZ Staff

Michael JacksonMichael Jackson's family is upset over the charities that are supposed to get 20% of Michael's estate -- that's what family sources tell TMZ.

Here's the deal -- the family's concern is premature. No charities have been picked yet and no money will be donated for somewhere between 1 and 2 years.

Under the terms of the trust, Michael gave charities 20% of the value of his estate. Problem is -- no one knows how much the estate is worth and until it's determined, no money will go to any charity.

The creditor's claims are still being filed and we're told it will take between 1 and 2 years for the state and the probate judge to settle the creditor's claims and determine the net value of the estate.

As for who decides which charities get the 20% -- we've learned the trust provides for a committee of three people who will make that decision -- Katherine Jackson and co-executors John Branca and John McClain.

The trust doesn't specify how decisions are made if the committee is divided. It could be majority rule, it could be that each committee member gets to pick a certain number of charities or they could set other ground rules.

Go figure -- Michael Jackson didn't account for the possibility that people in his world might disagree.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0Qia0Fe5b


I think KJ is concerned any money would go to charities. She wants it all for herself and Joe.

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

Jackson Family Upset Over MJ Charities

Posted Sep 10th 2009 8:45AM by TMZ Staff

Michael JacksonMichael Jackson's family is upset over the charities that are supposed to get 20% of Michael's estate -- that's what family sources tell TMZ.

Here's the deal -- the family's concern is premature. No charities have been picked yet and no money will be donated for somewhere between 1 and 2 years.

Under the terms of the trust, Michael gave charities 20% of the value of his estate. Problem is -- no one knows how much the estate is worth and until it's determined, no money will go to any charity.

The creditor's claims are still being filed and we're told it will take between 1 and 2 years for the state and the probate judge to settle the creditor's claims and determine the net value of the estate.

As for who decides which charities get the 20% -- we've learned the trust provides for a committee of three people who will make that decision -- Katherine Jackson and co-executors John Branca and John McClain.

The trust doesn't specify how decisions are made if the committee is divided. It could be majority rule, it could be that each committee member gets to pick a certain number of charities or they could set other ground rules.

Go figure -- Michael Jackson didn't account for the possibility that people in his world might disagree.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0Qia0Fe5b

Katherine gets to have a voice in the charities? That doesn't make much sense since she can't have a voice in the estate....

And I thought it was 20% of the interest not 20% of the total worth of his estate....

Something wrong here...

[warhorse46]

Actually, the Jackson family has NO say in anything. The executors of the estate have all the say.

in my opinion



Ah ha, I think you are right. Altho I think the executors would take the family wishes into consideration before making any decisions.

[retiredcop]

There may be something written in the trust that we are not privy to and it is the business dealings she has no say so over. It may state that KJ has a vote as to what charities get the donations though why "the family" would be upset makes no sense. Seems to me that whatever KJ says will be the final word as far as family goes much like she did with the burial. Seems KJ, Toya and Janet are in sync or at least they were with the burial. It's JJ and the brothers who try to throw the "wrenches" in. JMO

Have you forgotten KJ is trying to get permission from the judge to challenge the executors without being disinherited? KJ and Joe Jackson want control of the entire estate. There was suppose to be a hearing on this matter yesterday, but I can't find any information on the results of that hearing.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Ah ha, I think you are right. Altho I think the executors would take the family wishes into consideration before making any decisions.

The executors will make decisions based on financial gain for the estate only. They will try to build the estate up while paying off debtors. I doubt very seriously the executors will care about the family wishes. Their job is to grow that estate.

There are only four beneficiaries along with the charities. That's KJ and the three children. The rest of the family was cut out of the will and that includes Joe.

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

There may be something written in the trust that we are not privy to and it is the business dealings she has no say so over. It may state that KJ has a vote as to what charities get the donations though why "the family" would be upset makes no sense. Seems to me that whatever KJ says will be the final word as far as family goes much like she did with the burial. Seems KJ, Toya and Janet are in sync or at least they were with the burial. It's JJ and the brothers who try to throw the "wrenches" in. JMO

Did you read the interview with Janet? How sad was that?
I just wish that the "family" would stop all the bull.

I think Janet's tribute might be the only one I watch.

[Imperfect4]

Is Larry King's wife still preforming? Seems to me if she hasn't pulled out, she'll be the biggest start there. I read none of the other Jacksons are going!

Does Larry King's wife have a talent? I thought she was co-producing the event, more or less?

[retiredcop]

Does Larry King's wife have a talent? I thought she was co-producing the event, more or less?

She sings.

[Emerald]

The executors will make decisions based on financial gain for the estate only. They will try to build the estate up while paying off debtors. I doubt very seriously the executors will care about the family wishes. Their job is to grow that estate.

There are only four beneficiaries along with the charities. That's KJ and the three children. The rest of the family was cut out of the will and that includes Joe.

in my opinion

ITA

Plus, the $$ KJ received are to care for the children. Any $$ left when KJ dies revert back to the estate. It is regulated by the trustees.

Therefore..... any of those $$$ KJ uses to support the Jackson extended Family is ultimately coming from the children.

JMO

[retiredcop]

I believe they have to get the Executors' approval and court approval as well since the Judge stipulated until further notice he would have to approve anything involved with the estate. The estate now holds 40% of Sycamore Ranch. I don't know what Joe Jackson is talking about though since he has nothing to do with giving approval or not. :confused:

Actually this article says he only sold 1/4 share (25%)??

According to the London based Financial Times on-line newspaper, Citibank rode to Mr. Jackson's rescue by restructuring his now $300 million dollar debt, but in 2008, Jackson again fell behind on his payments owing over $24 million and this time Fortress did make good on a threat to foreclose Neverland. However,the crisis was averted when another hedge fund Colony Capital, bought Mr. Jackson's loans from Fortress and set up a joint-venture partnership with Mr. Jackson to co-own Neverland Ranch.Of which he promptly sold a quarter-share to Colony for $35 million dollars, according to the Times report.

Plans for the home included renovation and perhaps a Graceland type museum to display items from the singers storied entertainment career. According to Forbes On-line Magazine the ranches estimated value in 2004 was $US120 million.

Read more: http://entrepreneur-profiles.suite101.com/article.cfm/why_michael_jackson_could_never_be_broke#ixzz0Qiaz baPc

From the link:

Jackson's half ownership in ATV/Sony which owns the Beatles catalog estimated to be worth as much as $2 billion is held in a trust that shields it from his creditors. :ohmy:

[Emerald]

Jermaine is the worst opportunist in that family next to LaToya. They both need to go out and find their own gig and stop being bottom feeders off Michael's name.

I agree somewhat. At least Jermain is willing to go out and work for it (perform). It may be MJ name dropping, but it IS work. People can decide or not whether to buy tickets.

What does LaToya do?

[flipflop]

I agree somewhat. At least Jermain is willing to go out and work for it (perform). It may be MJ name dropping, but it IS work. People can decide or not whether to buy tickets.

What does LaToya do?

I see what you are saying. Latoya did just release this song and video though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G320rOh9Mfc

[retiredcop]

I see what you are saying. Latoya did just release this song and video though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G320rOh9Mfc

Actually, that wasn't bad. I still don't think she has a career in singing and needs to get a job. lol

in my opinion

[MK~ULTRA]

snipped

Katherine has since fought to keep her finances quiet, with her lawyer Burt Levitch arguing, "A bottom line dollar figure would make life more difficult for Katherine Jackson, it would create a feeding frenzy."


http://www.themoneytimes.com/20090910/jackson-fails-keep-allowance-details-private-id-1083407.html

A feeding frenzy by whom?

The rest of the Jackson family?

[retiredcop]

Michael Jackson's mother has failed in her bid to keep her allowance from her late son's estate private - a court in Los Angeles has ordered the details of the payments to be made public.

Katherine Jackson was granted permanent custody of the singer's three children, Prince Michael, 12, Paris, 11, and seven-year-old Prince Michael II, aka Blanket, following his tragic death in June (09).

In August (09) a judge allowed the 79 year old's request for an allowance from Jackson's estate to help provide for the kids.

Katherine has since fought to keep her finances quiet, with her lawyer Burt Levitch arguing, "A bottom line dollar figure would make life more difficult for Katherine Jackson, it would create a feeding frenzy."

But a judge in L.A. ruled against her on the grounds of public interest on Wednesday (09Sep09) - paving the way for the figures to be revealed.

However, Judge Mitchell Beckloff has conceded to keep the details of what the money is spent on out of the public domain.

The court will make a decision in the next few days over whether Katherine can contest the executors of her son's estate - John Branca and John McClain - without losing her 40 per cent stake because of a no contest clause in Jackson's will, according to Radar Online. (LR/WNWCDAR/ZN)

http://www.themoneytimes.com/20090910/jackson-fails-keep-allowance-details-private-id-1083407.html

Thanks for the information. I've been looking for this. I can't believe the judge hasn't make a decision on KJ contesting the executors. It seems simple to me. The will specified the executors. The answer is NO because it is the same as contesting the will.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

A feeding frenzy by whom?

The rest of the Jackson family?

Yes, and especially Joe.:laugh:

in my opinion

[MK~ULTRA]

Yes, and especially Joe.:laugh:

in my opinion

A more appropriate term would have been 'bottom feeding frenzy.'

imo... of course.

[retiredcop]

It would have been a good song without her singing it. Without all the background singers and the orchestration, she was hardly there to say nothing about the fact that it was a tribute to her brother who she trashed all over the medai as being a pedophile. Hmmmmmm, a bit of hypocrisy for the sake of a buck if you ask me.

:laugh: :laugh::laugh:

[Firehead11]

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=430460&GT1=42007

NEW YORK (AP) -- MTV says a trailer for a Michael Jackson film built around rehearsal footage left behind after the King of Pop's death will debut at Sunday's MTV Video Music Awards.

[Imperfect4]

She sings.

Ah. I did not know that.

Not exactly a headliner, eh?

[Emerald]

JMO

Who was arguing FOR the financial arrangements made public? Why? Those executors have worked feverishly to expand the estate. Katherine will be hard pressed to prove her presence would have made it better. Someone we have in the mix now that we have not heard much about is the GAL designated by the court. Seems to me the MJ executors are not going to get by with a lot of stuff. Actually, they will do more to protect the interests of the estate than KJ would.

IIRC, LaToya was booed off the stages in Paris. How will a YouTube video bring her any $$?

[flipflop]

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=430460&GT1=42007

NEW YORK (AP) -- MTV says a trailer for a Michael Jackson film built around rehearsal footage left behind after the King of Pop's death will debut at Sunday's MTV Video Music Awards.

Oh, good. Thank you for that.

[retiredcop]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/10/mjs-vienna-tribute-another-one-bites-the-dust/

MJ's Vienna Tribute -- Another One Bites the Dust

Posted Sep 10th 2009 3:30PM by TMZ Staff

We're not sure what the hell Jermaine Jackson was thinking when he announced the lineup for the Vienna tribute concert for Michael -- because Natalie Cole isn't gonna be there either.

[Cindylee]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/10/mjs-vienna-tribute-another-one-bites-the-dust/

MJ's Vienna Tribute -- Another One Bites the Dust

Posted Sep 10th 2009 3:30PM by TMZ Staff

We're not sure what the hell Jermaine Jackson was thinking when he announced the lineup for the Vienna tribute concert for Michael -- because Natalie Cole isn't gonna be there either.

I think it IS going to be just Jermaine. :laugh:

[retiredcop]

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/exclusive-michael-jacksons-coroner-hasnt-met-authorities-stalling-potential

EXCLUSIVE: Michael Jackson's Coroner Hasn't Met With Authorities, Stalling Potential Charges Being Pressed

Don't expect charges to be pressed against anyone in connection with Michael Jackson's homicide-ruled death in the near future, as RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned that the Los Angeles Police Dept. and the Los Angeles District Attorney's office still haven't met with the city's Coroner's Office to discuss further details of Michael Jackson's death.

"This is still very much an ongoing investigation," a law enforcement source told RadarOnline.com. "It could be weeks -- or months -- before the case is formally turned over to the DA's office."

In the majority of homicide cases, the DA meets in-depth with Coroner's Office authorities before deciding whether to pursue further action against a party. Los Angeles District Attorney's Office spokesperson Sandi Gibbons confirmed to RadarOnline.com that a meeting had between the parties had not yet taken place.

"There is no scheduled meeting on the books for anyone from the LA County Coroner's Office to meet with the LAPD and DA together," a source close to the situation told RadarOnline.com. "When the cops and DA's office are ready to meet with the coroner, they will let them know and the coroner will go over the findings of the death investigation into Michael Jackson. It's still under a security hold placed by the LAPD."

Jackson died after suffering a sudden cardiac arrest June 25 in Los Angeles.

[Imperfect4]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/10/mjs-vienna-tribute-another-one-bites-the-dust/

MJ's Vienna Tribute -- Another One Bites the Dust

Posted Sep 10th 2009 3:30PM by TMZ Staff

We're not sure what the hell Jermaine Jackson was thinking when he announced the lineup for the Vienna tribute concert for Michael -- because Natalie Cole isn't gonna be there either.

Wow. Just ... wow.

[Imperfect4]

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/exclusive-michael-jacksons-coroner-hasnt-met-authorities-stalling-potential

EXCLUSIVE: Michael Jackson's Coroner Hasn't Met With Authorities, Stalling Potential Charges Being Pressed

Don't expect charges to be pressed against anyone in connection with Michael Jackson's homicide-ruled death in the near future, as RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned that the Los Angeles Police Dept. and the Los Angeles District Attorney's office still haven't met with the city's Coroner's Office to discuss further details of Michael Jackson's death.

"This is still very much an ongoing investigation," a law enforcement source told RadarOnline.com. "It could be weeks -- or months -- before the case is formally turned over to the DA's office."

In the majority of homicide cases, the DA meets in-depth with Coroner's Office authorities before deciding whether to pursue further action against a party. Los Angeles District Attorney's Office spokesperson Sandi Gibbons confirmed to RadarOnline.com that a meeting had between the parties had not yet taken place.

"There is no scheduled meeting on the books for anyone from the LA County Coroner's Office to meet with the LAPD and DA together," a source close to the situation told RadarOnline.com. "When the cops and DA's office are ready to meet with the coroner, they will let them know and the coroner will go over the findings of the death investigation into Michael Jackson. It's still under a security hold placed by the LAPD."

Jackson died after suffering a sudden cardiac arrest June 25 in Los Angeles.

This just gets curiouser and curiouser.

[retiredcop]

This just gets curiouser and curiouser.

I don't think the police have enough to take to the DA. I think it will just fade away in regard to Dr Murray.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I sniff something exculpatory in that autopsy report.

in my opinion

[Imperfect4]

I don't think the police have enough to take to the DA. I think it will just fade away in regard to Dr Murray.

in my opinion

Would you assume the LAPD and the DA's office have had at least a preliminary sit down?

If so, it seems to me the DA would've told LAPD what else they need, and whatever it is isn't turning out to be so easy to get?

I would think if this was all about Dr. Murray and his treatment of MJ, which lasted only a couple months, LE has all the evidence by now they're apt to find. I could be wrong.

Thoughts?

[Firehead11]

It took 2 years for people to be charged in the Anna Nicole Smith death. They weren't charged with a homcide but they have been charged with a felony. I have faith that the LE will dot their i's and cross their t's before a charge is forth coming.

[Imperfect4]

It took 2 years for people to be charged in the Anna Nicole Smith death. They weren't charged with a homcide but they have been charged with a felony. I have faith that the LE will dot their i's and cross their t's before a charge is forth coming.

Anna Nicole Smith didn't have a doctor, who'd been her personal physician for a number of weeks/months, trying to resuscitate her as the paramedics arrived. In other words, things would seem to be MUCH more clear cut in this case -- MJ's doctor was front and center and admits to administering not only Diprovan, but a number of other medications throughout the night. You would think they'd have the man dead to rights. Yet, no arrest.

I don't think the ANS case is comparable, except she was a celebrity with a prescription drug habit. Otherwise, the two situations have little in common, imo.

[GentleBreeze]

I sniff something exculpatory in that autopsy report.

in my opinion

Why do you think that? If so it seems LAPD and the DA would have wanted to meet with the Coroner way before now since he has declared this death a homicide.

imo

[retiredcop]

Anna Nicole Smith didn't have a doctor, who'd been her personal physician for a number of weeks/months, trying to resuscitate her as the paramedics arrived. In other words, things would seem to be MUCH more clear cut in this case -- MJ's doctor was front and center and admits to administering not only Diprovan, but a number of other medications throughout the night. You would think they'd have the man dead to rights. Yet, no arrest.

I don't think the ANS case is comparable, except she was a celebrity with a prescription drug habit. Otherwise, the two situations have little in common, imo.

I agree, the two cases have little in common. It took a year (not two years) for that investigation and the charges involved drug/prescription charges which took a long time to track ect.

in my opinion

[Unperson1984]

I sniff something exculpatory in that autopsy report.

in my opinion

I smell the same scent in the air.

[GentleBreeze]

It took 2 years for people to be charged in the Anna Nicole Smith death. They weren't charged with a homicide but they have been charged with a felony. I have faith that the LE will dot their i's and cross their t's before a charge is forth coming.

I don't care how long they take. They may be gathering evidence for additional charges.

LAPD sure hasn't come out to the public and said Murray is totally off the hook have they?:wink:

Until they do that he will remain in the cross-hairs of their investigation.

imo

[retiredcop]

Why do you think that? If so it seems LAPD and the DA would have wanted to meet with the Coroner way before now since he has declared this death a homicide.

imo

It could still be a homicide, which means death by another's hand, which occurred when the Diprivan was administered. If there was something else in Jackson's system which the Doctor didn't know about, a conviction would be next to impossible to get as that is a defense.

in my opinion

[Unperson1984]

It could still be a homicide, which means death by another's hand, which occurred when the Diprivan was administered. If there was something else in Jackson's system which the Doctor didn't know about, a conviction would be next to impossible to get as that is a defense.

in my opinion

It wouldn't surprise me to learn Jackson was self-medicating without Murray's knowledge. I've been suspicious since I read that empty pill bottles were found in Jackson's room, yet empty vials is the way IV meds would be described.

IMO

[retiredcop]

Would you assume the LAPD and the DA's office have had at least a preliminary sit down?

If so, it seems to me the DA would've told LAPD what else they need, and whatever it is isn't turning out to be so easy to get?

I would think if this was all about Dr. Murray and his treatment of MJ, which lasted only a couple months, LE has all the evidence by now they're apt to find. I could be wrong.

Thoughts?

I think you are right. Detectives and DAs talk all the time during investigations and before the investigation is complete. The DA is going to be looking at what he needs to go to trial and get a conviction not just probable cause to arrest. I've been there and have done that dance with DAs more than once.

The investigation remains open. Why would they be waiting for the drug/prescription charges to be complete? If they have enough to do Murray now what is the hold up?

my opinion of course.

[Unperson1984]

It took 2 years for people to be charged in the Anna Nicole Smith death. They weren't charged with a homcide but they have been charged with a felony. I have faith that the LE will dot their i's and cross their t's before a charge is forth coming.

Murray has told LE what he administered to MJ and apparently that isn't enough to charge him.

[retiredcop]

It wouldn't surprise me to learn Jackson was self-medicating without Murray's knowledge. I've been suspicious since I read that empty pill bottles were found in Jackson's room, yet empty is the way IV meds would be described.

IMO

I have always thought the same. I have always thought this was accidental at another's hand. I think there is more in that tox report than Murray said he gave him. I think Jackson took something else. In that case, there is one heck of a good defense for Murray and a DA not so sure about wanting to go to trial.

I guess accidental at another's hand can be ruled a homicide. Just because this is ruled a homicide does not mean there will be charges.

in my opinion

[Imperfect4]

I think you are right. Detectives and DAs talk all the time during investigations and before the investigation is complete. The DA is going to be looking at what he needs to go to trial and get a conviction not just probable cause to arrest. I've been there and have done that dance with DAs more than once.

The investigation remains open. Why would they be waiting for the drug/prescription charges to be complete? If they have enough to do Murray now what is the hold up?

my opinion of course.

Bolded to address. That's my question. If Murray is so clearly and obviously the guy, why hasn't he been charged?

[retiredcop]

The night Mr Jackson died, Dr Murray told the police what he gave him and at what times he gave it to him. The doctor was trying to help him sleep without Diprivan. It was said Jackson remained awake, unable to sleep.

The doctor was probably in and out of the room during this time because he had not administered Diprivan at the time. I'm betting Jackson, being all upset because he couldn't sleep, swallowed some pills of something he had around without Dr Murray's knowledge.

When Jackson still couldn't sleep, Dr Murrary administered a low dose of Diprivan and Jackson died.

Dr Murray has said, right in the beginning, he gave him nothing that should have killed him.

A theory I have.

my opinion

[retiredcop]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/10/michael-jackson-moving-out/


Michael Jackson -- Moving Out

Two trucks showed up moments ago to Jackson's rented L.A. residence -- one for Michael's cars and the other for his property. Workers are currently unloading empty boxes and carting them inside the home.

Earlier this month, a bunch of property was removed from Michael's Las Vegas home -- including three Rolls Royce cars.

[Imperfect4]

The night Mr Jackson died, Dr Murray told the police what he gave him and at what times he gave it to him. The doctor was trying to help him sleep without Diprivan. It was said Jackson remained awake, unable to sleep.

The doctor was probably in and out of the room during this time because he had not administered Diprivan at the time. I'm betting Jackson, being all upset because he couldn't sleep, swallowed some pills of something he had around without Dr Murray's knowledge.

When Jackson still couldn't sleep, Dr Murrary administered a low dose of Diprivan and Jackson died.

Dr Murray has said, right in the beginning, he gave him nothing that should have killed him.

A theory I have.

my opinion

Interesting theory.

I was sort of assuming MJ held out for the Diprivan, reluctantly allowing Murray to give him the other meds because Murray was concerned about MJ's dependence on the propofol.

Maybe Murray didn't administer the same amount of one of the other meds MJ was used to, and MJ took a few extra assuming his tolerance was higher? I forget now whether everything Murray gave him was intravenous, or whether there were pills from him as well?

All pure speculation on my part. Just trying to imagine for myself how things got so far out of hand.

[retiredcop]

Interesting theory.

I was sort of assuming MJ held out for the Diprivan, reluctantly allowing Murray to give him the other meds because Murray was concerned about MJ's dependence on the propofol.

Maybe Murray didn't administer the same amount of one of the other meds MJ was used to, and MJ took a few extra assuming his tolerance was higher? I forget now whether everything Murray gave him was intravenous, or whether there were pills from him as well?

All pure speculation on my part. Just trying to imagine for myself how things got so far out of hand.

We don't know if Jackson was hooked up to an intravenous tube when the Diprivan was given to him in the morning or if he was hooked up all night. I don't know if he was given shots of the other medication or pills.

I do know drug addicts usually always have emergency stashes. I'm thinking he did have some pills somewhere in that room he could take.
I still sniff something in the autopsy report that is exculpatory for Dr Murrary.

my opinion

[Firehead11]

I will be patient.

[GentleBreeze]

It could still be a homicide, which means death by another's hand, which occurred when the Diprivan was administered. If there was something else in Jackson's system which the Doctor didn't know about, a conviction would be next to impossible to get as that is a defense.

in my opinion

I thought the drugs that killed him along with the propovol intoxication were drugs Murray had already told them he gave him?

No matter if something else was in his system and I have seen nothing to back up that it was, it certainly wasn't the cause of his death.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

The night Mr Jackson died, Dr Murray told the police what he gave him and at what times he gave it to him. The doctor was trying to help him sleep without Diprivan. It was said Jackson remained awake, unable to sleep.

The doctor was probably in and out of the room during this time because he had not administered Diprivan at the time. I'm betting Jackson, being all upset because he couldn't sleep, swallowed some pills of something he had around without Dr Murray's knowledge.

When Jackson still couldn't sleep, Dr Murray administered a low dose of Diprivan and Jackson died.

Dr Murray has said, right in the beginning, he gave him nothing that should have killed him.

A theory I have.

my opinion

Then why weren't they listed as cause of death along with the overdose of propovol? The only ones mentioned were the ones that Murray had said he had given him when he stacked them every hour on the hour it seems before he topped it off with the lethal dose of propovol at the end.

If that were true then why is the ME saying that MJs death was a homicide? It states the death was due to someone else taking his life not him overdosing himself.:confused:

imo

[Imperfect4]

We don't know if Jackson was hooked up to an intravenous tube when the Diprivan was given to him in the morning or if he was hooked up all night. I don't know if he was given shots of the other medication or pills.

I do know drug addicts usually always have emergency stashes. I'm thinking he did have some pills somewhere in that room he could take.
I still sniff something in the autopsy report that is exculpatory for Dr Murrary.

my opinion

If Murray was trying to reduce dosages of meds MJ was abusing, and MJ knew it, and MJ needed to sleep, I can clearly imagine him adding something(s) on the QT to what Murray was dispensing that night. Addicts don't continue to be addicts by accident.

It's possible the tox report shows much higher levels of certain meds than Murray is admitting he gave MJ. And propofol was the proverbial straw.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/10/michael-jackson-moving-out/


Michael Jackson -- Moving Out

Two trucks showed up moments ago to Jackson's rented L.A. residence -- one for Michael's cars and the other for his property. Workers are currently unloading empty boxes and carting them inside the home.

Earlier this month, a bunch of property was removed from Michael's Las Vegas home -- including three Rolls Royce cars.

Good. Keep those assets rolling in.

Looks like the administrators are coming right along.

imo

[Emerald]

I thought the drugs that killed him along with the propovol intoxication were drugs Murray had already told them he gave him?

No matter if something else was in his system and I have seen nothing to back up that it was, it certainly wasn't the cause of his death.

imo

JMO

We are not dealing with an official death certificate. It's still "reliable" unnamed sources. All that info about the homicide and impending arrest came at the same time as the interment.

[Imperfect4]

Good. Keep those assets rolling in.

Looks like the administrators are coming right along.

imo

What an odd thing to say. :confused:

[BOZGAL2]

What an odd thing to say. :confused:

I do not see anything odd in the comment at all. Just protecting Michael's assets.

Sure blows the theory out of the water that the Jackson's pilfered everything out of that house.

JMO

[Unperson1984]

I thought the drugs that killed him along with the propovol intoxication were drugs Murray had already told them he gave him?

No matter if something else was in his system and I have seen nothing to back up that it was, it certainly wasn't the cause of his death.

imo

Another drug could be an underlying cause of death.

Of course you haven't seen anything about other drugs, the report is sealed. We only know what Murray told LE he administered and it appears those drugs alone aren't enough to bring charges.

[Unperson1984]

Whatever it is that could be considered exculpatory was there at the time the coroner ruled it a homicide. If it was something so clear in favor of Murray, why would they rule it a homicide?

Homicide simply means at the hands of another, it doesn't have to be intentional or criminal.

[Imperfect4]

I do not see anything odd in the comment at all. Just protecting Michael's assets.

Sure blows the theory out of the water that the Jackson's pilfered everything out of that house.

JMO

Protecting Michael's assets from whom? Is there some conspiracy I haven't heard about to re-route Michael's assets away from his estate?

[warhorse46]

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/exclusive-michael-jacksons-coroner-hasnt-met-authorities-stalling-potential

EXCLUSIVE: Michael Jackson's Coroner Hasn't Met With Authorities, Stalling Potential Charges Being Pressed

Don't expect charges to be pressed against anyone in connection with Michael Jackson's homicide-ruled death in the near future, as RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned that the Los Angeles Police Dept. and the Los Angeles District Attorney's office still haven't met with the city's Coroner's Office to discuss further details of Michael Jackson's death.

"This is still very much an ongoing investigation," a law enforcement source told RadarOnline.com. "It could be weeks -- or months -- before the case is formally turned over to the DA's office."

In the majority of homicide cases, the DA meets in-depth with Coroner's Office authorities before deciding whether to pursue further action against a party. Los Angeles District Attorney's Office spokesperson Sandi Gibbons confirmed to RadarOnline.com that a meeting had between the parties had not yet taken place.

"There is no scheduled meeting on the books for anyone from the LA County Coroner's Office to meet with the LAPD and DA together," a source close to the situation told RadarOnline.com. "When the cops and DA's office are ready to meet with the coroner, they will let them know and the coroner will go over the findings of the death investigation into Michael Jackson. It's still under a security hold placed by the LAPD."

Jackson died after suffering a sudden cardiac arrest June 25 in Los Angeles.


I think this is a good thing. To me it shows the police dept is doing a thorough investigation, getting all the evidence they need for a solid case, taking one step @ a time before charging anyone.

[Imperfect4]

Homicide
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Homicide (Latin homicidium, homo human being + caedere to cut, kill) refers to the act of killing another human being.[1] It can also describe a person who has committed such an act, though this use is rare in modern English. Homicide is not always an illegal act, so although "homicide" is often used as a synonym for "murder," this is not formally correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homicide

Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary
Legal Dictionary Home

homicide
The killing of one human being by the act or omission of another. The term applies to all such killings, whether criminal or not. Homicide is noncriminal in a number of situations, including deaths as the result of war and putting someone to death by the valid sentence of a court. Killing may also be legally justified or excused, as it is in cases of self-defense or when someone is killed by another person who is attempting to prevent a violent felony. Criminal homicide occurs when a person purposely, knowingly, recklessly, or with extreme negligence causes the death of another. Murder and manslaughter are examples of criminal homicide.

http://www.nolapress.com/dictionary/homicide-term.html

Per the second definition, it would seem the distinction is homicide vs. criminal homicide. MJ's death has not been termed a criminal homicide.

[BOZGAL2]

Does this mean the LA Coroner needs to specify what type of 'homicide' for the MOD?

Maybe someone should call their office.

JMO

[Imperfect4]

Does this mean the LA Coroner needs to specify what type of 'homicide' for the MOD?

Maybe someone should call their office.

JMO

The LA Coroner's report hasn't been released. But go ahead and give them a call if you'd like. lol

[Imperfect4]

Do you think it could be justified by a claim of self defense by Murray? Or did Murray have to inject MJ in order to prevent a violent felony? How do you think he can justify his actions?

He doesn't have to justify anything at the moment. Sorry to disappoint.

[warhorse46]

Does this mean the LA Coroner needs to specify what type of 'homicide' for the MOD?

Maybe someone should call their office.

JMO


I am assuming you mean manner of death by MOD. There are only 5 manners of death a pathologist can choose from during an autopsy.
1. Natural
2. Accident
3. Homicide
4. Suicide
5. Undetermined

Cause of death is a very different thing.

[Unperson1984]

But they listed all the drugs that contributed to the death, and ruled it a homicide, and later amended it to establish that it was not self administered. If those drugs arent enough, then why rule it a homicide?

Not exactly, we only know what drugs Murray administered. We haven't seen the full tox screen or the death certificate.

[GentleBreeze]

I do not see anything odd in the comment at all. Just protecting Michael's assets.

Sure blows the theory out of the water that the Jackson's pilfered everything out of that house.

JMO

Yep.

I was just thinking if one glove could fetch $49,000 what in the world will all of the other collectibles yield? Mind boggling how many collectible assets this one man had and the price some are willing to pay for them.

I think they will auction some of his possessions off later after the memorabilia tours and then keep what the children want to keep.

iimo

[GentleBreeze]

-------------------

How could u know what was in his system when the autopsy wasn't even released? Hold on to your hat..........its gonna be involuntary homicide. imo

I'm a holding. I agree........Involuntary Manslaughter. Maybe or maybe not...it may be voluntary. We will have to wait and see.

I know he died from propovol intoxication.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

----------------

Self medicating........thats exactly what i think MJ was doing. imo

The Coroner doesn't agree with you.

I think he knows way more than any of us on a message board, don't you?

[retiredcop]

Not exactly, we only know what drugs Murray administered. We haven't seen the full tox screen or the death certificate.

The full tox screen is gonna get them. (Jaws music) :wink:

in my opinion of course

[Unperson1984]

The L.A. County Coroner has just officially announced the cause of Michael Jackson's death -- Acute Propofol intoxication.

The report says "other conditions contributing to death: Benzodiazepine effect." Benzodiazepines are a group of drugs (see below) used to treat anxiety and insomnia.

The manner of death is ruled: "HOMICIDE."

The Coroner did not release the full autopsy report -- just a press notice. It goes on:

The drugs PROPOFOL and LORAZEPAM (Ativan) were found to be the primary drugs responsible for Mr. Jackson's death.

Other drugs detected were: Midazolam (Versed), Diazepam (Valium), Lidocaine (topical anesthetic) and Ephedrine (used to treat hypotension associated with anesthesia).

The final Coroner's report, including the toxicology report, will remain on security hold, per the LAPD.

www.tmz.com

Don't you think that if the above drugs were all that was found there would be no reason to withhold the report?

[retiredcop]

The Coroner doesn't agree with you.

I think he knows way more than any of us on a message board, don't you?

WHY NO ARREST? :rolleyes:

[Imperfect4]

The coroner doesn't think so, thats why he didn't rule it a suicide or accidental overdose. He ruled it a homicide.

Yep. No mention of criminal homicide that we've seen.

[Imperfect4]

The coroner ruled that the drugs were administered by another person. So how does a tox screen help Murray. No matter what drugs are there, its already been determined that MJ didn't inject himself.

It has not, however, been determined Murray did anything criminal.

[retiredcop]

An arrest starts the clock. There is no need for an arrest. Murray isn't a flight risk, and not likely to be a danger to society, so whats the hurry?

What clock?

[Imperfect4]

An arrest starts the clock. There is no need for an arrest. Murray isn't a flight risk, and not likely to be a danger to society, so whats the hurry?

What clock?

How do you know he's not a flight risk?

Not a danger to society? Good grief, reading some of the comments on this thread you'd think he was Public Enemy #1.

[Imperfect4]

I have yet to hear a peep that it was justifiable homicide.

Doesn't have to be distinguished as such in order to be non-criminal. The lack of the descriptive term "criminal" in front of the word "homicide" means it was the death of one person at the hands of another, but not determined (at the time of the announcement of the MOD) to be a criminal act.

[GentleBreeze]

WHY NO ARREST? :rolleyes:

Why so antsy?:rolleyes:

Have they come out and set the record straight saying the Murray is no longer being looked at?

I am sure he would like to come out of his home and go about his business.

imo

[retiredcop]

You are a retiredcop, and you should know.

I think you're referring to speedy, but I really don't know for sure what you are talking about.


my opinion

[retiredcop]

Why so antsy?:rolleyes:

Have they come out and set the record straight saying the Murray is no longer being looked at?

I am sure he would like to come out of his home and go about his business.

imo

If they have a charge they would arrest. Why wouldn't they? What are they waiting for?

my opinion

[Unperson1984]

What clock?

Speedy trial.

[Imperfect4]

Speedy trial.

I honestly don't think the DA would have a problem with a request for a speedy trial. Murray's involvement with MJ as his personal physician was a matter of weeks/months. LE raided all his offices and his home. They interviewed him at least twice (IIRC). It seems he cooperated with their investigation. He admitted administering the propofol, so I don't imagine they're trying to trace it to him. If there's a criminal case here, seems to me LE should have what the DA needs to go forward.

[warhorse46]

If they have a charge they would arrest. Why wouldn't they? What are they waiting for?

my opinion




They are taking it one step @ a time, completing that step before moving to the next to make sure they have a solid case if there is a trial, IMO. Nobody can cry rush to judgement in this for sure like some many defense lawyers do.

[Unperson1984]

I honestly don't think the DA would have a problem with a request for a speedy trial. Murray's involvement with MJ as his personal physician was a matter of weeks/months. LE raided all his offices and his home. They interviewed him at least twice (IIRC). It seems he cooperated with their investigation. He admitted administering the propofol, so I don't imagine they're trying to trace it to him. If there's a criminal case here, seems to me LE should have what the DA needs to go forward.

It usually doesn't get much better than a confession... unless there is something in the tox report that is exculpatory.

IMO

[February]

---------------

Its too bad he didnt promote the slogan "SAY NO TO DRUGS." IMO


Too bad a doctor who took an oath to Heal didn't uphold his professional constitution and supplied the drugs instead of just saying no.

[Firehead11]

I honestly don't think the DA would have a problem with a request for a speedy trial. Murray's involvement with MJ as his personal physician was a matter of weeks/months. LE raided all his offices and his home. They interviewed him at least twice (IIRC). It seems he cooperated with their investigation. He admitted administering the propofol, so I don't imagine they're trying to trace it to him. If there's a criminal case here, seems to me LE should have what the DA needs to go forward.

Didn't we read somewhere that Murray stated that he didn't purchase the drug but yet LE have found credit card receipts from the ordering house? Anyone remember this?

[GentleBreeze]

-----------------------------

And have they come out and arrested him yet? NO
I don't think anyone is gonna attack Murray if he leaves his house.....it wouldn't be worth it for anyone to go to jail for MJ. imo

Quit avoiding the question?

Have they come out and said they are no longer investigating Dr. Murray?

Well then you need to tell that to Murray, not me. He was the one in his PR video said he was more or less shut in.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

He's already admitted to injecting him with the deadly dose of propofol. Homicide is not the same as prescribing to an addict.

Exactly, that is two different illegal acts.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

IMO Michael Jackson was a pack rat.

I believe anything that appeared to be valuable the Jackson's removed.....remember the reports that they even removed stuff that wasn't even his?

I would also bet even the movers there now have signed confidentiality agreements.

We don't even know what all that entailed though. The homeowner was very close friends with MJ. I am sure he has given them ample time to come and get the rest of MJs possessions.

He seems to have great valuables. Even two months later they were moving loads of boxes out of his LV home and three Rolls Royce and then at the Holmby mansion they removed another Rolls Royce among other things. I saw boxes especially made for paintings on TMZ yesterday.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

---------------

Its too bad he didn't promote the slogan "SAY NO TO DRUGS." IMO

Too bad that Dr. Murray didn't take his oath to "do no harm" seriously. :thumbdown:

imo

[GentleBreeze]

A 24-yr-old woman was found dead in her home from apparent propofol "toxicity." Her blood level of propofol was 4.3 µg/mL. She had no history of drug abuse and no evidence of such behavior at autopsy. The medical examiner and police investigators felt that she died from probable homicide. Attention was focused on a male registered nurse acquaintance, who had acquired propofol and other drugs in the course of his regular duties in a surgical intensive care unit. This is the first reported case of murder with propofol.


Laboratory analysis revealed a blood propofol concentration of 4.3 µg/mL. This value is within the range of blood propofol concentrations (1.3–6.8 µg/mL) after a bolus induction dose of 2.5 mg/kg of body weight. The medical examiner ruled that the manner of death was homicide. She noted that the fatal dose of propofol was administered by someone with skill in IV injections.

Follow-up investigation of the propofol national drug code lot numbers on the bottles at the crime scene revealed the drug had been obtained from an automated Omnicell® dispenser (Omnicell Headquarters, 1201 Charleston Road, Mountain View, CA) by a male registered nurse who worked in the surgical intensive care of Shands Hospital at the University of Florida. The most recent propofol had been dispensed to him on November 3, 2005. On or about the day of her death (between November 8 and 9, 2005), he left the area, subsequently went briefly to Georgia on approximately November 24, 2005, and ultimately flew to Ireland on November 29, 2005.

After further investigation, a second degree murder warrant was issued for the suspect on January 24, 2006. In June 2006, he was apprehended in the West African Republic of Senegal. On October 16, 2006, he was transported to the Alachua County Department of the Jail by the United States Marshall’s Service, and on November 29, 2007, the prior indictment for second degree murder was upgraded to first degree murder. Trial commenced on May 19, 2008. On May 23, he was found guilty of first degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.



http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/cgi/content/full/108/4/1182

OMG!!!

What an eye opener!:ohmy: Thanks for the very interesting and relevant link.

imo

[retiredcop]

OMG!!!

What an eye opener!:ohmy: Thanks for the very interesting and relevant link.

imo

I don't anything relevant at all.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

A 24-yr-old woman was found dead in her home from apparent propofol "toxicity." Her blood level of propofol was 4.3 µg/mL. She had no history of drug abuse and no evidence of such behavior at autopsy. The medical examiner and police investigators felt that she died from probable homicide. Attention was focused on a male registered nurse acquaintance, who had acquired propofol and other drugs in the course of his regular duties in a surgical intensive care unit. This is the first reported case of murder with propofol.


Laboratory analysis revealed a blood propofol concentration of 4.3 µg/mL. This value is within the range of blood propofol concentrations (1.3–6.8 µg/mL) after a bolus induction dose of 2.5 mg/kg of body weight. The medical examiner ruled that the manner of death was homicide. She noted that the fatal dose of propofol was administered by someone with skill in IV injections.

Follow-up investigation of the propofol national drug code lot numbers on the bottles at the crime scene revealed the drug had been obtained from an automated Omnicell® dispenser (Omnicell Headquarters, 1201 Charleston Road, Mountain View, CA) by a male registered nurse who worked in the surgical intensive care of Shands Hospital at the University of Florida. The most recent propofol had been dispensed to him on November 3, 2005. On or about the day of her death (between November 8 and 9, 2005), he left the area, subsequently went briefly to Georgia on approximately November 24, 2005, and ultimately flew to Ireland on November 29, 2005.

After further investigation, a second degree murder warrant was issued for the suspect on January 24, 2006. In June 2006, he was apprehended in the West African Republic of Senegal. On October 16, 2006, he was transported to the Alachua County Department of the Jail by the United States Marshall’s Service, and on November 29, 2007, the prior indictment for second degree murder was upgraded to first degree murder. Trial commenced on May 19, 2008. On May 23, he was found guilty of first degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.



http://www.anesthesia-analgesia.org/cgi/content/full/108/4/1182

Why have you posted this? There is no relevance with this case and the Jackson case. :thumbdown:

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/11/michael-jackson-tribute-concert-postponed/


Michael Jackson Tribute Concert Postponed

Posted Sep 11th 2009 8:00AM by TMZ Staff

Michael JacksonThe planned Michael Jackson tribute concert in Vienna this month has been postponed until 2010. It's amazing what having NO performers will do for a concert.

Citing scheduling conflicts, the event's promoter, Georg Kindel, made the announcement today and said the concert would now take place in London. As for why the delay, Kindel said they "underestimated" the scheduling issues many of the top performers had.

As we first reported, Natalie Cole said she wouldn't be there because she's set to attend an event with the Dalai Lama in Memphis. Chris Brown and Mary J. Blige were promoted as being part of the event -- but denied any involvement.

UPDATE -- Jermaine Jackson, who was helping to put this whole thing together, just posted a long-winded apology/explanation, that reads in part, "Instead of eight weeks we now have eight months to prepare and some of the stars who would not have been able to participate in the Vienna concert, but expressed their wish to participate in this event, will be able to perform live on stage at the renowned Wembley Stadium in London in June 2010."

[Firehead11]

I believe that Murray went a tad beyond just prescribing, he actually was incharge of administering those drugs not to mention giving a lethal cocktail of drugs that potentiate the effects of these drugs..which ultimately killed MJ...So..I happen to believe he is in far more trouble than just prescribing...

LMS

IMO, he sure did. I think that that is the very reason the coroner stated that it was a homicide and that jackson died at the hands of another.

LE will connect the dots and someone will be charged.

[retiredcop]

http://www.tmz.com/

Jermaine on London Concert -- Not So Fast

Posted Sep 11th 2009 9:09AM by TMZ Staff

Jermaine Jackson made it appear that he pushed back the date for the Michael Jackson tribute concert so big artists like Chris Brown, Mary J. Blige and Natalie Cole could clear their schedule and appear -- but here's something you probably didn't see.

On the official website for the concert, if you go to the jump page with all the legal mumbo jumbo ... it takes back everything Jermaine seems to have promised.

Here's a quote straight from the website:

"This website does not intend to convey the impression that the artists and personalities depicted here within have agreed to participate in the said event in any way, shape or form."

So if you buy tickets to Jermaine's tribute concert, a word of caution ... read the fine print.

[retiredcop]

For what its worth the slogan is actually "Just Say No," first introduced by Nancy Reagan. Dr. Murray wouldn't be in such a world of hurt if he had Just Said No.

Actually, the slogan "Just Say No" refers to individuals that may be thinking about or offered drugs. It doesn't refer to doctors in the practice of medicine. :rolleyes:

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Since Propofol and it's effects on the human body has been discussed here for weeks now, I think that it is quite relevant. It goes to show the levels that it takes to kill someone. Do you have something more relevant that you would like to share about this subject?

You missed the point.:huh:

my opinion of course

[retiredcop]

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b143641_la_toya_speaks_michael_was_god-like.html

La Toya Speaks: Michael Was "God-Like"

To say La Toya Jackson idolized her late brother would, it seems, be putting it lightly.

"I don't think we'll find a person as talented, a person who thought the way he thought," she tells Barbara Walters of Michael Jackson in a 20/20 interview airing tonight. "A person with the heart that Michael had.

more...........

[warhorse46]

Why have you posted this? There is no relevance with this case and the Jackson case. :thumbdown:

in my opinion




I find the article very relevant to the Jackson death. The scenarios are very similar.

[retiredcop]

I find the article very relevant to the Jackson death. The scenarios are very similar.

How so? In the cited case, malice and premeditation was present. The perpetrator set out to kill his victim. In the Jackson case that was not what happened. The drug is the only similarity, but was not used for the same purpose.

When the link was posted the poster highlighted this:

On May 23, he was found guilty of first degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.


Since the poster seems to be citing this and only this out of the link, I see no relevance to the Jackson case as to a charge or sentence for Dr Murray.

The scenrios are NOT similar.

in my opinion of course

[Firehead11]

What we KNOW is that the doctor gave Jackson the drugs which caused his death. Ok, some of us believe that is the case. We do not know what his intention was, thus the continuing investigation. IIRC, Murray stated that he DID NOT purchase the drugs. IIRC, he lied.

[retiredcop]

What we KNOW is that the doctor gave Jackson the drugs which caused his death. Ok, some of us believe that is the case. We do not know what his intention was, thus the continuing investigation. IIRC, Murray stated that he DID NOT purchase the drugs. IIRC, he lied.

I don't remember Murrary ever saying he did not purchase the drug. Do you happen to have a copy of his statement??

How did the police know to search the pharmacy where the drug was purchased if Murray didn't tell them about it?:rolleyes:

Remember the drug is not a controlled substance and therefore not illegal for him to purchase. He had no reason to lie.

in my opinion of course

[retiredcop]

How do you know with any certainty that Dr. Murray didn't intend to kill Mr. Jackson? Because he said so? What purpose was served to go through the motions of CPR, when the patient was dead? What medical purpose was served by bringing Prince into the room, where his father lay dead? If it was purely accidental, why all the self-serving cover up?


There was no self serving cover up. You're changing the goal posts again.:biggrin:

in my opinion

[MK~ULTRA]

How do you know with any certainty that Dr. Murray didn't intend to kill Mr. Jackson?

snipped

How do you know with any certainty that Dr. Murray intended to kill Michael Jackson?

[MK~ULTRA]

I don't.

snipped

My point exactly.

[retiredcop]

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/video-latoya-jackson-michael-wasnt-god-he-was-certainly-god

VIDEO: LaToya Jackson Makes Startling Accusation Against Dr. Conrad Murray

Dr. Conrad Murray knowingly called Michael Jackson's oldest son, Prince, into the room as Jackson lay dead, the Thriller singer's sister LaToya told Barbara Walters in a 20/20 interview slated to air Friday night.

"Prince watched him do this, Barbara," she said. "You don't do that to a child, especially when you knew prior to that child coming up, that child's father was no longer alive."

She said she thinks Murray summoned Prince, 13, so he could confirm Murray "had nothing to do with this."

When asked if Murray, a focal point in the investigation surrounding the Thriller singer's death, LaToya said: "Something went wrong; something went wrong."

LaToya discussed her other aspects of her brother's storied life in the interview.

Michael Jackson "wasn't God, but he was certainly God-like; he was the closest thing to God that I knew," the 53-year-old sister of the Thriller singer said, noting the singer's longtime philanthropy.

"I don't think we'll find a person
as talented, a person who thought the way he thought," LaToya told Walters. "A personal with the heart Michael had. People aren't that way anymore."

LaToya also commented on the oft-discussed background of the children of the late singer's children, most notably young Blanket, who she said Michael told her is Hispanic.

She said the children have a good relationship with their grandpa Joe Jackson, noting they "like the fact he is very outspoken." She said she believes Michael would have wanted his children to have Joe involved in their lives.

Michael Jackson died after suffering a sudden cardiac arrest June 25 in Los Angeles.

You can watch the entire interview with LaToya Jackson on 20/20 Friday at 10/9c.

____________________________________

There is no proof the doctor called Prince into the room. That has been speculation and rumor from the beginning.

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

I find the article very relevant to the Jackson death. The scenarios are very similar.

Except in the article it said that the woman who died, had no history of drug use. So did the guy shoot her up with the Propofol against her will? MJ begged for the drug. That IMO would be the difference.

[Firehead11]

I don't remember Murrary ever saying he did not purchase the drug. Do you happen to have a copy of his statement??

How did the police know to search the pharmacy where the drug was purchased if Murray didn't tell them about it?:rolleyes:

Remember the drug is not a controlled substance and therefore not illegal for him to purchase. He had no reason to lie.

in my opinion of course


No need to roll those eyes....
Lot number on the drug bottle will tell LE which direction to look at.

I will look for the link but as I stated, IIRC.

[MK~ULTRA]

Latoya spouting Blasphemy.

Trying to make up for her 1993 comments?

[Firehead11]

Except in the article it said that the woman who died, had no history of drug use. So did the guy shoot her up with the Propofol against her will? MJ begged for the drug. That IMO would be the difference.


MJ begged for the drug as per Murray.

[Cindylee]

MJ begged for the drug as per Murray. And the nurse.

[retiredcop]

MJ begged for the drug as per Murray.

You doubt that??? We all know Jackson begged nurse Lee for the drug. Seems he had a habit of that, no?

my opinion

[Firehead11]

And the nurse.

See that bothers me that she went to the media with that story. Why do that?

[Cindylee]

I think you hit on the vary reasoning this guy got charged and convicted of 1st degree murder....however, until MJ died, no one really acknowledged that Diprivan/Propofol was an issue...Boy...it sure is now..which will no doubt lead to some sort of accounting for each and every bottle of this stuff....It so happen the nurse that injected this women in her home, intended to kill her...and she died at the hands of another..thus misuse or improper administration of this drug is the core issue...

LMS

Oh, you are right about the Diprovan. I think there will be all kinds of changes. And I do think that Dr. Murray will be charged with something.

[warhorse46]

How so? In the cited case, malice and premeditation was present. The perpetrator set out to kill his victim. In the Jackson case that was not what happened. The drug is the only similarity, but was not used for the same purpose.

When the link was posted the poster highlighted this:

On May 23, he was found guilty of first degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.


Since the poster seems to be citing this and only this out of the link, I see no relevance to the Jackson case as to a charge or sentence for Dr Murray.

The scenrios are NOT similar.

in my opinion of course


Oh I see your point now & agree on that part of the scenario. I don't think there was any malice on Dr. Murray's part. IMO he is not facing first degree murder charges. More likely manslaughter or possibly second degree murder. The scenarios are similar in that the same drug was used, with the same result (death), administered by a medical person experienced in IV therapy but not in use of this drug.

[Cindylee]

See that bothers me that she went to the media with that story. Why do that?

I have thought about that. Remember the two guys that were at the house when MJ died, and they hired an attny. and he said that the guys had tried to contact the LAPD and they weren't talking to them. Maybe Nurse Lee had tried to contact LAPD and no one would talk to her. She went to the media, and then the police talked to her. ???

[Firehead11]

I have thought about that. Remember the two guys that were at the house when MJ died, and they hired an attny. and he said that the guys had tried to contact the LAPD and they weren't talking to them. Maybe Nurse Lee had tried to contact LAPD and no one would talk to her. She went to the media, and then the police talked to her. ???

Yes, I remember them. But we have all been around long enough to know that since she went to the media, her creditabilty MIGHT get shot all to hell. Hasn't it happened in prior cases?

[Firehead11]

All I know is that it is a good thing she did...as up until then there were accusations of Demerol injections being given, or fears of Morphine abuse..no one even thought of the possibility of Diprivan on that 25th of June 2009....I also think that Murray only admitted to giving Diprivan..because of what Cheryl Lee said...I know I heard about Diprivan before Dr. Murray even sat down with LE with his lawyer in tow..previous to that Lawyer only stated Dr. Murray did not give MJ anything that should have caused his death...

It's all in the timing of the information that rings to me..There actually was no confidentiality involved with her statements..as she was not treating MJ at that time...

LMS


It is not the confidentiality that concerns me.

[Cindylee]

Yes, I remember them. But we have all been around long enough to know that since she went to the media, her creditabilty MIGHT get shot all to hell. Hasn't it happened in prior cases?

But, as Lyndawithay, said, no one had even heard of Diprovan until she spoke up. When the police contacted her, she fully cooperated with them. I don't see why, if she contacted the police, her credibility would be in question. It seems that everything she said has turned out to be true.

[impartial]

Right around this same time Dr. Chopra ( think that was his name)..close friend to MJ..was on the air speaking to media night after night..about all the drugs, and requests to him by MJ and his denying or providing them...i actually see no difference...

LMS

There may not be any difference, but it's not necessarily appropriate ... the patient/physician privilege survives the patient's death ... the physician is not the holder of the privilege.

imo

[retiredcop]

But, as Lyndawithay, said, no one had even heard of Diprovan until she spoke up. When the police contacted her, she fully cooperated with them. I don't see why, if she contacted the police, her credibility would be in question. It seems that everything she said has turned out to be true.

I don't believe no one had heard of it until she went to the media. Dr Murray was interviewed by LAPD and told them what he had administered. Maybe none of us had ever heard of it, but I don't believe the detectives had never heard of it.

I thought we went over her motives at one time. She had a website business and was posting on her website about her TV interviews. She wanted her 15 minuets of fame and the publicity it would afford her to the business.

Why would she be an important witness for the state when the doctor admitted to everything he did? She would be a witness for the defense if that.

my opinion of course

[BOZGAL2]

What disturbed me about Cherilyn Lee was what I read on her own website. She lost all credibility with me at that point. I would post the link but it is no longer available which also speaks volumes to me.

JMO

[retiredcop]

Well, Dr. Deepak Chopra is a Doctor and spoke quite freely about drug abuse and enablers in MJ's life..even mentioned that he had been asked for it and denied to facilitate it..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/a-tribute-to-my-friend-mi_b_221268.html

Cheryl Lee, is a Nurse Practicioner, who was not treating MJ at the time, and she only recounted her knowlege and denial of assisting MJ..and the keey fact..Diprivan/Propofol is a name of a drug she was being asked for......could have been any drug..

In both cases, these people had been involved in treating or assisting MJ on "Wellness" attempts, whether it be mental, emotional or physical.
So, in that vain, I see no difference in speakingto the media.

LMS

Was Dr Chopra ever Jackson's physician or only his friend?

It doesn't matter if Nurse Lee was not threating Jackson at the time or that he was deceased. She was still bound by privilege.

in my opinion

[Imperfect4]

What we KNOW is that the doctor gave Jackson the drugs which caused his death. Ok, some of us believe that is the case. We do not know what his intention was, thus the continuing investigation. IIRC, Murray stated that he DID NOT purchase the drugs. IIRC, he lied.

I can't imagine his intention was to kill his $150K/month cash cow. Not with his own considerable financial problems. And I don't recall reading anything indicating Murray had a history of harming his patients.

[Imperfect4]

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/video-latoya-jackson-michael-wasnt-god-he-was-certainly-god

VIDEO: LaToya Jackson Makes Startling Accusation Against Dr. Conrad Murray

<snipped for space>

There is no proof the doctor called Prince into the room. That has been speculation and rumor from the beginning.

in my opinion

The female chef said the opposite about Prince. She said none of the children were in the room with Murray and their father. She was in the house at the time, LaToya was not. It appears LaToya's repeating what she's read in the media, and she's also now singing her father's praises. Did Joe tell her to watch her mouth or she wouldn't get her cut?

Never thought I'd see it, but it seems LaToya has jumped the shark in terms of her lack of innate intelligence and her desire to be noticed.

[tiptop]

I can't imagine his intention was to kill his $150K/month cash cow. Not with his own considerable financial problems. And I don't recall reading anything indicating Murray had a history of harming his patients.


IIRC Murray asked for something like 5 million to be at MJ's side during the whole concert run. He was told that was too much and was offered the $150K/month which he accepted. So, like you, I tended to believe he wouldnt harm Michael on purpose. But then some less-than-credible (lol) links popped up somewhat connecting Murray with James Brown's wife Adrienne and her mysterious death. Seems he was her doc, but was not connected to a liposuction clinic. She died after using an unlicensed spa. This link labels Murray a "feel good" physician.

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/printer_27244.shtml

[retiredcop]

the only problem with your scenerio is that Cherylin Lee had already spoken of Diprivan by July 27th, and Dr. Murray hadnt even made his statement to LE yet....Timing is way off there...

http://www.westwoodone.com/pg/jsp/larryking/transcript.jsp;jsessionid=16841B4F75CC08CC758BC152 A14BC46D?pid=27476

LMS:rolleyes:

How do you know when Dr Murray talked with LE the first time other than when he spoke with detectives at the hospital?

[GentleBreeze]

How do you know with any certainty that Dr. Murray didn't intend to kill Mr. Jackson? Because he said so? What purpose was served to go through the motions of CPR, when the patient was dead? What medical purpose was served by bringing Prince into the room, where his father lay dead? If it was purely accidental, why all the self-serving cover up?

I was wondering about that myself. How do any of us know what was in Murray's mind that day.:confused:

imo

[tiptop]

Until the Kai Chase (chef) spoke out it was widely reported that Prince was summoned to MJ's room and it did come from the family. I am even wondering if perhaps Prince did make a qiuck trip upstairs when called (Chef does say Murray called for Prince and everything happened so fast so it is possible that the chef was not aware of it. I do not recall anyone asking her if Prince was out of her sight even for just a couple of minutes. Maybe Prince told the family something we are not aware of. JMO

This whole calling Prince upstairs thing has always bothered me. I wonder if Michael at some point told Murray that if anything ever happened to him, to call for Prince. This young man seems older than his years. Perhaps Michael felt like Prince was the man of the house in some ways. Seems like there is a psychological term for parents who depend on their kids and think of them in an adult sense almost. Michael seemed emotionally weak and lonely to me. I dunno, I'm rambling...........lol

[retiredcop]

I was wondering about that myself. How do any of us know what was in Murray's mind that day.:confused:

imo

What was in his mind was trying to ween an addict off Diprivan.

in my opinion

[BOZGAL2]

What was in his mind was trying to ween an addict off Diprivan.

in my opinion

He miserably failed at that job.

JMO

[Firehead11]

IIRC Murray asked for something like 5 million to be at MJ's side during the whole concert run. He was told that was too much and was offered the $150K/month which he accepted. So, like you, I tended to believe he wouldnt harm Michael on purpose. But then some less-than-credible (lol) links popped up somewhat connecting Murray with James Brown's wife Adrienne and her mysterious death. Seems he was her doc, but was not connected to a liposuction clinic. She died after using an unlicensed spa. This link labels Murray a "feel good" physician.

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/printer_27244.shtml


So he wanted 5 million and settled for a total of 1.5 million instead?

[Firehead11]

He miserably failed at that job.

JMO


If you really wanted to get technical about that, he did succeed, but it cost his patient his life.

[tiptop]

So he wanted 5 million and settled for a total of 1.5 million instead?

Yes, IIRC. I will try to dig up a link. I read so much about this stuff I cant always remember where I read it. It was either a link online or in the updated J Randy Tab book. I thought it spoke to Murray's dire need of money.

[tiptop]

I cant find a link about the 5 million Murray initially wanted - maybe someone else can. So I will put a huge JMO on that statement.



Here's a link detailing Murray's financial woes:

http://www.apcsradio.com/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=597

[Unperson1984]

MJ begged for the drug as per Murray.

...and Nurse Lee and the doctor on CNN. Three unrelated people with the same story.

[Unperson1984]

Until the Kai Chase (chef) spoke out it was widely reported that Prince was summoned to MJ's room and it did come from the family. I am even wondering if perhaps Prince did make a qiuck trip upstairs when called (Chef does say Murray called for Prince and everything happened so fast so it is possible that the chef was not aware of it. I do not recall anyone asking her if Prince was out of her sight even for just a couple of minutes. Maybe Prince told the family something we are not aware of. JMO

Since you're the link queen perhaps you can help me. At some point didn't we hear that when Murray first called security for help no one came? I seem to remember that information.

Since we heard from the cook that staff were not ever allowed upstairs, could Murray have called for Prince because he could come upstairs or could give security permission to come upstairs?

[February]

Since you're the link queen perhaps you can help me. At some point didn't we hear that when Murray first called security for help no one came? I seem to remember that information.

Since we heard from the cook that staff were not ever allowed upstairs, could Murray have called for Prince because he could come upstairs or could give security permission to come upstairs?


No. Murray was on his cell phone , his records indicate he made calls to Houston and Las Vegas. He didn't call for help because he knew Michael was already dead which is why he performed CPR on the bed instead of a hard surface.
I believe it is called CYA.

[Imperfect4]

Until the Kai Chase (chef) spoke out it was widely reported that Prince was summoned to MJ's room and it did come from the family. I am even wondering if perhaps Prince did make a qiuck trip upstairs when called (Chef does say Murray called for Prince and everything happened so fast so it is possible that the chef was not aware of it. I do not recall anyone asking her if Prince was out of her sight even for just a couple of minutes. Maybe Prince told the family something we are not aware of. JMO

With all due respect to the grieving Jackson family, I'll go with the chef's version before any of theirs.

[Imperfect4]

IIRC Murray asked for something like 5 million to be at MJ's side during the whole concert run. He was told that was too much and was offered the $150K/month which he accepted. So, like you, I tended to believe he wouldnt harm Michael on purpose. But then some less-than-credible (lol) links popped up somewhat connecting Murray with James Brown's wife Adrienne and her mysterious death. Seems he was her doc, but was not connected to a liposuction clinic. She died after using an unlicensed spa. This link labels Murray a "feel good" physician.

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/printer_27244.shtml

Whether or not your link is credible (I didn't read it), I'm not really arguing he's a capable physician, lol. Just that it makes absolutely no sense he'd intentionally kill his "once in a lifetime opportunity" patient, especially given how much financial trouble he was in.

The only motive he could have, imo, would be if there was indeed some murder plot ala Joe and LaToya, and Murray's payday for doing the deed promised to be larger than his $150K monthly salary for, um, servicing Michael's needs.

I really don't believe that for a hot second, but if it were true, then Murray was a really, REALLY bad choice for hit man.

[Imperfect4]

This whole calling Prince upstairs thing has always bothered me. I wonder if Michael at some point told Murray that if anything ever happened to him, to call for Prince. This young man seems older than his years. Perhaps Michael felt like Prince was the man of the house in some ways. Seems like there is a psychological term for parents who depend on their kids and think of them in an adult sense almost. Michael seemed emotionally weak and lonely to me. I dunno, I'm rambling...........lol

No you're not rambling. It's called "parentification." Role reversal of parent and child. It happens a lot.

[Imperfect4]

Since you're the link queen perhaps you can help me. At some point didn't we hear that when Murray first called security for help no one came? I seem to remember that information.

Since we heard from the cook that staff were not ever allowed upstairs, could Murray have called for Prince because he could come upstairs or could give security permission to come upstairs?

My memory is the same as yours. Something about no one could summon security (besides MJ) but Prince. I've been assuming that's why Prince was in the mix at all.

[tiptop]

No you're not rambling. It's called "parentification." Role reversal of parent and child. It happens a lot.

Thats it, thanks!

[February]

.......barf.......


Funny, I get that same barf reaction when I read the bashing of a family in mourning and the nasty comments about their loved one.

[Imperfect4]

IMO Latoya is the product of an incestuous home. That's why the dysfunction runs so deep. That family, when all together, feed off each other and the greed surfaces....

Rebbie filed charges against Joe when she was a young teen, and Latoya out and out accused Joe. Now, she's singing his praises and claiming Michael Jackson would have wanted him around his children?


I will NEVER believe that.

A person would have to be blind not to see the the rampant dysfunction and greed at this point.

I ALMOST feel sorry for LaToya, all she ever wanted was to be loved and protected....and without therapy and working through these issues ...she is still busy trying to get it from her twisted parents. Parents that made her the emotional and social cripple she is today. The very same parents that finally got around to laying their son's body to rest months after his death.....cause they were more concerned about money. all IMO

I don't doubt the dysfunction of the Jackson household. (Was it you with the link about Oprah's reaction to an audience member who seemed to think Joe did a good job with his children? That was an eye opener!)

But ... just as I feel MJ had a responsibility as a grown man to work through his issues in a productive manner, the same applies to LaToya and the rest of them.

It's important to understand how our childhoods have affected and/or damaged us ... it's JUST as important, imo, to do the work to get past it. For ourselves, but more importantly for our children and their children and so forth.

/End rant.

[Imperfect4]

Or a good choice if he is not charged. If he is charged, I think he will roll over on someone and sing like a dime store canary.

Rolling over on someone would imply there was a conspiracy to murder Michael Jackson. I don't believe it for a hot second, BUT ... I'd like to know the who and the why. Any thoughts?

[Imperfect4]

Man, I am going to take some flack for this! The who, Jermaine and Dr. Klein. The why, I will leave up to your deductive reasoning.

I won't give you any flack. You'll get plenty from others. :laugh:

Let's see ... Jermaine for the Benjamins and a shot (in his mind) at becoming the most popular male Jackson. Klein? I'm stumped. To keep MJ quiet about all the good doctor's indiscretions in his treatment over the years?

And for those who are about to land on Eagle and/or me with both feet, please know we're simply chatting and speculating about the possibility of a murder-to-hire conspiracy as per the statements by Joe and LaToya.

[Imperfect4]

No, that wasn't me that posted about Oprah. I musta missed that post!

Agreed! That's why I said I ALMOST feel sorry for her;)

Wish I could remember who posted the dang link. It's in this thread somewhere, I believe.

It was a blog entry by a person who was in the audience for an Oprah show. The subject was stage parents. The comment from the audience was by a man who stood up to the mic and said he was proud to be raising his kids in the style of Joe Jackson. According to the audience member/blogger, Oprah came storming off the stage and right up into the guy's face and went on at some length about the damage JJ did to his kids, and that no one should be proud to be raising their kids like Joe did. I guess the show was pretty much in the tank after that.

When it aired, all that excitement was cut out.

It was a pretty interesting story by the blogger.

[Imperfect4]

I found it!

<snipped for space>


That be the one. Wonder how Oprah feels about MJ's kids being raised now by KJ, with her ever-lovin husband still present and accounted for?

And gee, when Grandpa Joe isn't around, the kids can hang out with Uncle Jermaine or Aunt LaToya. :scared:

[Cindylee]

That be the one. Wonder how Oprah feels about MJ's kids being raised now by KJ, with her ever-lovin husband still present and accounted for?

And gee, when Grandpa Joe isn't around, the kids can hang out with Uncle Jermaine or Aunt LaToya. :scared:

Scary isn't it. And now there will be more home school, so the only people they are really in contact with is family.

[Firehead11]

Man, I am going to take some flack for this! The who, Jermaine and Dr. Klein. The why, I will leave up to your deductive reasoning.

I won't give you any flack over it, hell some are trying to say there was a conspiracy to murder Anna Nicole Smith and well, I can't see anyone really making dollars off of her death unless they plan on getting and controlling the Marshall $$$$.

[Cindylee]

Since Home Schooling for the Jackson's kids has been decided upon...I have to wonder IF Grace is still involved???..Since she was with those kids for most of their lives, she must have done much of that "Home Schooling".???? Just wondering??

LMS:confused:

I don't know. The article, I think it was TMZ said they would have the same tutor they have had in the past.

[tiptop]

Not sure if this has been posted before..it goes to Jermaine and his yet again blasting media regarding the "Vienna Concert"....is it just me??? or is Jermaine rather less than candid...When it suits he claims "Grieving" and when what he says is proven less than accurate..he claims mis-interpretations...I really dont quite trust thisman..he soft voice belies what he does...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gJdSMDfl0xedmh8gBljJPSPEO12g

sorry..copyright rules makes it impossible to quote anything from this article..

LMS

I dont trust the guy either. Here's an interesting link about an alleged book Jermaine tried to push in 2003 but no one bit.

http://www.newser.com/story/66759/jermaines-old-book-pitch-michael-hated-jews.html

Seems like Jermaine and LaToya go with the flow. If they can make a buck off Michael, they say whatever is necessary. I have my doubts about whether this tribute concert will come to pass. I think at the moment a lot of people dont want to be seen aligning with him, for various reasons. Many still have their doubts about the molestation issues and for some, his "weird" factor is enough to keep them away. Why risk their reputation when they dont have to? Not to mention the family and their haphazard ways since Michael's death.

[Emerald]

Not to mention that more than once, he stated he feared for his life, and expressed fear over Tohme having taken over the details of his life, shortly before his untimely death.


From what I've gathered of MJ, he was a "yes" kind of person. Anything to keep the peace. Generally said he agreed with whoever he was talking to.

So, when I hear these covertly recorded conversations, I don't really believe every little snippet.

When he spoke to the Nurse about getting the propofol, she tells him it's bad. MJ agrees and says he will do better. (paraphrasing). Just like a little kid being chastised. Agree, apologize, blush and a promise to do better. This is a pattern I noticed.

JMO

[Imperfect4]

Not sure if this has been posted before..it goes to Jermaine and his yet again blasting media regarding the "Vienna Concert"....is it just me??? or is Jermaine rather less than candid...When it suits he claims "Grieving" and when what he says is proven less than accurate..he claims mis-interpretations...I really dont quite trust thisman..he soft voice belies what he does...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gJdSMDfl0xedmh8gBljJPSPEO12g

sorry..copyright rules makes it impossible to quote anything from this article..

LMS

Bolded to address. I've made note of this before -- the very soft voices imply personalities other than what we've seen from some of the Jacksons. It's disconcerting. imo

[Imperfect4]

Scary isn't it. And now there will be more home school, so the only people they are really in contact with is family.

Yeah, I'm rethinking the home school idea. I felt initially it was probably a good move, but the more I contemplate the situation, the more convinced I become that the sooner those kids get out into the world with relatively normal folks, the better off they'll be.

I'm sure an exclusive school in SoCal is prepared to handle the children of a celebrity in terms of security concerns and other issues.

[Imperfect4]

Oh I see exactly where you're coming from. Of course he isn't playing with a full deck...none of them are. I think some are beginning to understand my concern about those children being raised by any of them.

Michael Jackson did the same exact thing. Make outlandish claims and even when he was proven to be a liar...he somehow managed to twist it around by claiming HE was a victim of the media, extortionists, racism, police brutality....the list goes on and on....and there were many ready to lap it up and defend him.

My only question......why is it only obvious when Jermaine does it? Seems like common sense and logic remains in tact....when it's Jermaine and it all flies out the window when Michael Jackson did it.

imo

I think MJ appealed to a wide cross-section of what are referred to as the "disenfranchised." He was an oddity, presumably persecuted, and many people identify with that. I think that's why he got more of a pass that his comparatively well-adjusted brother, Jermaine. imo

[Imperfect4]

I dont trust the guy either. Here's an interesting link about an alleged book Jermaine tried to push in 2003 but no one bit.

http://www.newser.com/story/66759/jermaines-old-book-pitch-michael-hated-jews.html

Seems like Jermaine and LaToya go with the flow. If they can make a buck off Michael, they say whatever is necessary. I have my doubts about whether this tribute concert will come to pass. I think at the moment a lot of people dont want to be seen aligning with him, for various reasons. Many still have their doubts about the molestation issues and for some, his "weird" factor is enough to keep them away. Why risk their reputation when they dont have to? Not to mention the family and their haphazard ways since Michael's death.

ITA with all you said here.

[Imperfect4]

From what I've gathered of MJ, he was a "yes" kind of person. Anything to keep the peace. Generally said he agreed with whoever he was talking to.

So, when I hear these covertly recorded conversations, I don't really believe every little snippet.

When he spoke to the Nurse about getting the propofol, she tells him it's bad. MJ agrees and says he will do better. (paraphrasing). Just like a little kid being chastised. Agree, apologize, blush and a promise to do better. This is a pattern I noticed.

JMO

Insightful post. :thumbup:

[Imperfect4]

Especially when someone is pumping lethal doses into your veins.

That is not how MJ received the majority of his medication over the years, and that fact is well known. If he was paranoid as a result of his drug use, about Tohme or anyone else, it didn't come rushing on for the first time ever as Murray was "treating" him the night/morning of his death.

MJ self-medicated because he had a substance abuse problem. Why distort the facts? Are you at some point planning to claim MJ never willfully took a medication in his life and everything he ever ingested was forced into him?

Incredible. Otherwise known as lacking credibility. :rolleyes:

[Imperfect4]

I think alot of high value stars get away (pass) with alot of aberrant behaviors that most dont..and Jermaine's claim to fame lost its luster decades ago!! His only asset at this stage is his relationship with a "Star"....Sad really..but true!!

LMS:laugh:

Hate to dredge this back up (okay, no I don't), but wasn't Jermaine the one who married one of his brothers' ex-wives and had children with her?

Ugh x 1000. I'm sure both sets of kids really enjoy trying to explain their lineage.

[Imperfect4]

Barbara Walters is going to interview LaToya tonight on 20/20. Has this been posted yet?

Here is a link and a preview. http://www.abcnews.go.com/2020/MichaelJackson/la-toya-jackson-life-michael-jackson-barbara-walters/story?id=8541838

Yep. From the previews, it promises to be a doozy.

[Cindylee]

From your link:

•(Jackson father) “Joseph did some disgusting things to LaToya and Rebbie, especially. If it weren’t for mother’s loyalty to him, he’d probably be in prison for what he did to our sisters.”
•“My brother is a superstar, yes. ... He drinks, he does drugs, he lies, he cheats, he changed his skin color and mostly, he’s human. He attracts gay men and wards off women like the plague.”

Amazing how some of the Jackson's have said horrible things about Joe, and MJ, and some on here call them lies, but, then when those same Jackson's change their stories, and everything was wonderful, MJ was great, etc. Then the Jackson's are telling the truth. So, which stories are true, and which are not? Or could it be that there is a bit of truth in both stories.

[flipflop]

Oh yes flipflop. barf

Oops. I'm sorry I can see if I can delete it. I should have read back further.

ETA.........got it deleted. Thanks.

[flipflop]

Yep. From the previews, it promises to be a doozy.


Lol. Well, I am going to watch it though. I'm not a big fan of hers but I still want to see what she has to say.

[GentleBreeze]

----------------------------
Since u have painted janet more or less "wonderful" then why didn't she get help for her flesh and blood brother, MJ? Yeah.........i know some will say she tried..............but how much did she really try. If i had a brother in the condition that MJ was in, I would have hog-tied him (with help) and got him into rehab. Theres always ways to help someone................even if they don't want help. and actually, this goes for the entire jackson clan. All they can come up with is excuses as to why they didn't help him. imo

It isn't that easy. If it were that easy we wouldn't have millions of people addicted to prescription drugs in our country.

Individuals have constitutional rights and I imagine hogtying them up would be a crime.

imo

[tiptop]

From your link:

•(Jackson father) “Joseph did some disgusting things to LaToya and Rebbie, especially. If it weren’t for mother’s loyalty to him, he’d probably be in prison for what he did to our sisters.”
•“My brother is a superstar, yes. ... He drinks, he does drugs, he lies, he cheats, he changed his skin color and mostly, he’s human. He attracts gay men and wards off women like the plague.”

Uh huh. So the question remains...........are these accusations true or were they fabricated for this alleged book?

I've read many books and internet articles on the brothers. And the one thing they all have in common is the fact that the brothers normally would blow most of their money, then expect Michael to do a tour with them to enhance their bank accounts. I think all the brothers had limited talent. But IMO Michael and Janet got the most. Who knows though - maybe some of the others could have been more popular had they worked at it. But it seems Michael wanted to work while the others wanted to play and only work when they needed money.

[impartial]

I won't give you any flack. You'll get plenty from others. :laugh:

Let's see ... Jermaine for the Benjamins and a shot (in his mind) at becoming the most popular male Jackson. Klein? I'm stumped. To keep MJ quiet about all the good doctor's indiscretions in his treatment over the years?

And for those who are about to land on Eagle and/or me with both feet, please know we're simply chatting and speculating about the possibility of a murder-to-hire conspiracy as per the statements by Joe and LaToya.


The Benjamins? Clueless here. TIA !

[GentleBreeze]

Amazing how some of the Jackson's have said horrible things about Joe, and MJ, and some on here call them lies, but, then when those same Jackson's change their stories, and everything was wonderful, MJ was great, etc. Then the Jackson's are telling the truth. So, which stories are true, and which are not? Or could it be that there is a bit of truth in both stories.

Don't know. Some here don't believe a word out of any Jacksons' mouth yet then all of a sudden they will believe one Jackson totally.:confused: I think it is just to support positions/opinions which every the way the wind is blowing at the time.

imo

[who_is_it]

I dont trust the guy either. Here's an interesting link about an alleged book Jermaine tried to push in 2003 but no one bit.

http://www.newser.com/story/66759/jermaines-old-book-pitch-michael-hated-jews.html

Seems like Jermaine and LaToya go with the flow. If they can make a buck off Michael, they say whatever is necessary. I have my doubts about whether this tribute concert will come to pass. I think at the moment a lot of people dont want to be seen aligning with him, for various reasons. Many still have their doubts about the molestation issues and for some, his "weird" factor is enough to keep them away. Why risk their reputation when they dont have to? Not to mention the family and their haphazard ways since Michael's death.

I don't think doubts keep spectators and contributors away. Possible spectators wanted to see MICHAEL JACKSON -- not any other celebrities. Madonna did a tribute in one of her concerts, made an impersonator dance and then said: "Let's give it up!" -- imo true because no other celebrity could do a tribute which holds a candle to Michael. Imo THIS keeps contributors away and maybe also the assumption Jermaine wants to make money.

[who_is_it]

--------------

and then theres a lot here that would believe anything that a jackson said.
So u tell me.........for what possible reason would LaToya make a public statement saying her brother molested young boys? tell us. imo

Obviously she didn't believe it in the end because LaToya accompanied Michael to the court room.

[tiptop]

-----------------

MJ wanted to work alone .....he abandoned his brothers. I dont think they ever forgave him for that. imo

I agree. But I wonder why?

I think it's because they were lazy. In one way, I cant blame them. All the rehearsals and early hole-in-the-wall venues. Then the traveling and hectic lifestyle. But Michael wanted it. I think Michael loved it. He seemed to me to be a very troubled man. And I think performing and creating was his savior. But when drugs take over they can override everything. And in my mind, thats what happened to him. Something most of us take for granted ---- a normal night's sleep --- became the Holy Grail for him. It took precedence over his children and everything else in his life. Very sad.

[Imperfect4]

Lol. Well, I am going to watch it though. I'm not a big fan of hers but I still want to see what she has to say.

She said MJ was "God like." She said she's sure he was murdered. She said it all in that breathy, brainless way she has.

Girlfriend has zero credibility in my book.

[tiptop]

Obviously she didn't believe it in the end because LaToya accompanied Michael to the court room.

It's been said that her ex, Jack Gordon, forced her into saying and doing many things she did not want to, out of fear for her life. He wanted her to "sell" stories about the family for lots of money.

[Imperfect4]

The Benjamins? Clueless here. TIA !

$100 bills. :wink:

ETA: Slang http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_some_slang_words_for_money

[Cindylee]

It's been said that her ex, Jack Gordon, forced her into saying and doing many things she did not want to, out of fear for her life. He wanted her to "sell" stories about the family for lots of money.

And Jermaine also said many things about MJ.

[Imperfect4]

He never willfully self administered a lethal dose. That is a fact.

You weren't talking about the night/morning he died. You responded to a post about drugs muddling one's thinking, which was a post responding to MJ's fear of Tohme, by stating it was especially the case when "lethal doses are being pumped into your veins" or some such. Perhaps if you'd stop trying to pin everything bad that ever happened to MJ on Conrad Murray, you wouldn't be so confused about timeframes or whatever it is you're confused about.

[Unperson1984]

My memory is the same as yours. Something about no one could summon security (besides MJ) but Prince. I've been assuming that's why Prince was in the mix at all.

Thanks, it's good to know I'm not going crazy.

:smile:

[Imperfect4]

Obviously she didn't believe it in the end because LaToya accompanied Michael to the court room.

Michael was filmed going to court. LaToya appears to have never met a camera she didn't love.

[Imperfect4]

Even if hogtying was acceptable, a person cannot be locked in a rehab facility against his will, absent a court order.

Which is exactly why blaming anyone and everyone else for MJ's ongoing substance abuse problem is ludicrous. Only Michael could make the decision to enter rehab.

[who_is_it]

Michael was filmed going to court. LaToya appears to have never met a camera she didn't love.

I agree she seems to love publicity.

[tiptop]

And Jermaine also said many things about MJ.


It's getting really hard to keep up, isnt it? :biggrin:

[impartial]

$100 bills. :wink:

ETA: Slang http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_some_slang_words_for_money


:blushing:

Here's my conspiracy theory ... doesn't include Jermaine.

IIRC, MJ's joint venture to save Neverland was initially for a 10 concert tour. Somewhere along the line, it was upped to 50 concerts, after figuring out that 10 concerts would not cover the $350M debt against Neverland. It became apparent after rehearsals that MJ would never be able to complete a 50 concert tour, and TPTB realized that MJ was worth more dead than alive and the only way to recoup their $350M.

Do I believe it? No. Is it possible, anything's possible. If Dr. Murray was duplicitous in any conspiracy, the pay off would have to be more than $1.5M, and very easy to trace.

I'm still on the accidental death bus.

imo

[who_is_it]

--------------

Do u have any clue as to why she had to recant her story? Because her life was threatened.

So just as i asked another poster to explain to us why u she think LaToya made a false public statement saying her brother was a child molester......i ask u the same question. so tell us why imo

LaToya is the kind of person I don't bear to listen to. I've once watched an interview on youtube. She talked without interruption, it was unbearable. Furthermore her early murder statements were a bit freaky imo. Even if she thought her brother was murdered she shouldn't have talked to the media at an early stage of the death investigation imo.

[impartial]

Like what?



Not much can be done if you believe the mantra that addiction is the only disease that must be self-diagnosed for treatment/cure.

[tiptop]

Michael Jackson never wanted them to be successful. He signed them to his own label and basically owned them....and never produced or released anything. Read Bob Jone's book to see what the brothers actually were paid for the Victory Tour.


I thought about getting that book but never did. I read elsewhere they received 5 mil each. Is that not correct per Bob? I also read Michael donated his proceeds from the V tour.

[Imperfect4]

:blushing:

Here's my conspiracy theory ... doesn't include Jermaine.

IIRC, MJ's joint venture to save Neverland was initially for a 10 concert tour. Somewhere along the line, it was upped to 50 concerts, after figuring out that 10 concerts would not cover the $350M debt against Neverland. It became apparent after rehearsals that MJ would never be able to complete a 50 concert tour, and TPTB realized that MJ was worth more dead than alive and the only way to recoup their $350M.

Do I believe it? No. Is it possible, anything's possible. If Dr. Murray was duplicitous in any conspiracy, the pay off would have to be more than $1.5M, and very easy to trace.

I'm still on the accidental death bus.

imo

Plus, if Murray was the hit man, I'm sure he would've figured a better way to do MJ in than dosing him with a rather stunning cocktail of traceable medications, all of which it appears he fessed up to to the authorities.

Heck, our state controller Kathy Augustine was done in by her husband with a shot of succinylcholine, a paralytic. He was an RN. And he would've got away with it had he not opened his big mouth right before he did the deed to another RN about how easy it is to kill someone with a shot of the stuff. Apparently, dead bodies produce a similar compound, so autopsies looking for it tend to be inconclusive. Fortunately, they took fluids from her before they took her off the machines in the hospital, and that's how they found the drug. They didn't even notice the injection site until they knew to look.

O/T, but my point is, if there was a conspiracy to kill MJ, I think a whole lot more *attention to detail* would've been given to exactly how that could be done without leaving such a stunning amount of evidence behind.

[Unperson1984]

I don't think I'm a link queen just try to support my statements .....

Anyway according to the affidavit in the search warrant p19 , Murray says he called Williams (personal assistant - who was not in the home) to contact Security and after a few minutes security had not responded. He ran down into the kitchen and summoned Prince upstairs and asked the chef to summon security. Why would he want Prince upstairs if he told the chef to summon security? I doubt there would have been any question about Security coming upstairs in an emergency and it doesn't say he summoned Prince to give Security permission :shrug:

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf

Thank you for the link. Where does it point out that Williams wasn't in the home?

[who_is_it]

---------------

U skirted around my question to u. imo

No, I just stated that I don't take LaToya's statements serious.

[Firehead11]

You could hog tie all you want, it will not help that person if they choose to stay drugged. You cannot force someone into the hospital or rehab center unless they are a danger to themselves or others. I don't believe being a drug addict will qualify under that.

[Cindylee]

It's getting really hard to keep up, isnt it? :biggrin:

It sure is. :laugh:

[Cindylee]

Michael Jackson never wanted them to be successful. He signed them to his own label and basically owned them....and never produced or released anything. Read Bob Jone's book to see what the brothers actually were paid for the Victory Tour. Really? That isn't nice.

[tiptop]

Better grab that book! It's worth reading. imo

*amazon.com* lol

[Unperson1984]

:blushing:

Here's my conspiracy theory ... doesn't include Jermaine.

IIRC, MJ's joint venture to save Neverland was initially for a 10 concert tour. Somewhere along the line, it was upped to 50 concerts, after figuring out that 10 concerts would not cover the $350M debt against Neverland. It became apparent after rehearsals that MJ would never be able to complete a 50 concert tour, and TPTB realized that MJ was worth more dead than alive and the only way to recoup their $350M.

Do I believe it? No. Is it possible, anything's possible. If Dr. Murray was duplicitous in any conspiracy, the pay off would have to be more than $1.5M, and very easy to trace.

I'm still on the accidental death bus.

imo

Scoot over... :wink:

[tiptop]

Sorry that statement was in an interview with Williams and the Security Guard (which is why I put it in (). Those are the two that LE just recently interviewed. The links are here somewhere - posted days ago. If I come across it will link to it -- but this I thought was considered a known fact the night we discussed Mrurray's telephone calls in which one was to Williams (MJ's personal assistant) and Frank DeLeos interview with LKL. jmo

Doesnt it seem odd that they waited so very long to interview two people who were on the scene when MJ died? Also someone posted a link either yesterday or today about the coroner not talking to authorities for some reason (or something like that). If its to be believed, its all very strange. I wondered why they waited so long to interview people actually there when MJ died. And, if I'm not mistaken, they (those there when MJ died) wanted to talk with authorities but the excuse of "being too busy" was given by the authorities. WTF?

[tiptop]

The problem with Jones' book is under oath he admitted it was part fiction and he was NOT the lone writer and the other writer took the liberty to sensationalize it.

Just want to point one thing out though -- the only rights MJ has were to the Jacksons (which much wasn't done). Motown owns the rights to the Jackson 5 and their music and Berry Gordy is well known for his contracts with many artists who did not bother to read them before signing the dotted line and were cheated royally. Remember Florence Ballard from the Supremes who died in poverty? JMO

Thanks for the verification about that. I was chastised a few weeks ago when I suggested that Joe Jackson did not read his contract and was shocked to find he could not use the group name JACKSON 5 when he left Motown. By all accounts I've read, he admits to not reading the contract. He was just so elated the brothers had finally "made it," nothing else mattered.

[tiptop]

http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=430623&GT1=28102

I was just looking at this link again, about the tribute concert being moved to June 2010.

I think by then no one will give a crap about Michael Jackson. Sure, there may be a few hangers-on who want to perform but the big names will still be busy or uninterested. Maybe some new performers trying to stake their claim, but that will be it.

I think Michael was great in his time. But like so many greats before him, his time has faded. And in nine months, I doubt anyone will be thinking about him. It doesnt necessarily take away from his contributions to the music world. It just will be indicative of time and how it marches on.

[impartial]

Plus, if Murray was the hit man, I'm sure he would've figured a better way to do MJ in than dosing him with a rather stunning cocktail of traceable medications, all of which it appears he fessed up to to the authorities.

Heck, our state controller Kathy Augustine was done in by her husband with a shot of succinylcholine, a paralytic. He was an RN. And he would've got away with it had he not opened his big mouth right before he did the deed to another RN about how easy it is to kill someone with a shot of the stuff. Apparently, dead bodies produce a similar compound, so autopsies looking for it tend to be inconclusive. Fortunately, they took fluids from her before they took her off the machines in the hospital, and that's how they found the drug. They didn't even notice the injection site until they knew to look.

O/T, but my point is, if there was a conspiracy to kill MJ, I think a whole lot more *attention to detail* would've been given to exactly how that could be done without leaving such a stunning amount of evidence behind.

Or push potasium chloride ... stops the heart within 15 minutes, and the body naturally releases potasium chloride upon death.

[tiptop]

Or push potasium chloride ... stops the heart within 15 minutes, and the body naturally releases potasium chloride upon death.



Or an Italian dinner with Robert Blake...........

lol - J/K :biggrin:

[impartial]

Scoot over... :wink:


Always nice to sit next to a friend. :smile:

When did Dr. Murray sleep anyway.

[impartial]

Or an Italian dinner with Robert Blake...........

lol - J/K :biggrin:

:laugh:


Want meatballs with that bullet?

[tiptop]

Always nice to sit next to a friend. :smile:

When did Dr. Murray sleep anyway.

I'm thinking during the day. Wasnt he on 3rd shift with Michael?

[impartial]

I'm thinking during the day. Wasnt he on 3rd shift with Michael?


Michael wasn't getting home from rehearsals until after midnight, Dr. Murray started IIRC medicating him around 1:00 a.m., and didn't start the drip until 10:40 a.m. ... the drip would have been continuous until Michael wanted to wake up ... maybe 8 hours? That would have taken Dr. Murray to 6:00 p.m.

:confused:

[tiptop]

Michael wasn't getting home from rehearsals until after midnight, Dr. Murray started IIRC medicating him around 1:00 a.m., and didn't start the drip until 10:40 a.m. ... the drip would have been continuous until Michael wanted to wake up ... maybe 8 hours? That would have taken Dr. Murray to 6:00 p.m.

:confused:

I've always wondered if the night of his death was a normal night for MJ. If Murray got there at his normal time and if MJ was in a state which the doc was accustomed to. And exactly what does $150K/month pay for?

[impartial]

If there is a trial, you can bet that the defense attorneys are going to ask the coroner, how can he be sure that it was administered by another person. The answer is "he can't" because he wasn't there. It is a medical opinion not based on fact but a calculated wild a**ed guess.


Dr. Murray supposedly gave the police a statement that he administered 25 mgs diprivan drip.

The coroner did not say it was an overdose of diprivan, but diprivan intoxication as the primary cause with other meds as a contributing factor.

I presume that the tox report did not reveal a higher amount of diprivan than what Dr. Murray reported.

There may be another drug however that hasn't been mentioned publicly in the tox report.

imo

[tiptop]

I totally agree!

I was just watching tv and caught a commercial for Guitar Hero Rock Band ..."The Beatles". I'm wondering if this deal was one made by the executors? If it was...it's brilliant!


I am no gaming genius, but I figure it takes awhile to make a game such as the Beatles for Guitar Hero. I'm thinking it was probably in the works for quite some time. Between MJ's death in June and 9/9/09 when the game was released is not enough time to create it. It was in the works before MJ's death.

[tiptop]

Michael Jackson was not just an entertainer, he was a brother, a son, and a Father, and he will remain in their hearts and memories forever. To say that no one will give a "crap" about him in nine months doesn't seem realistic. I don't think he will fade for a long time, if ever. And as far as the "tribute shows" go, I think they are not so much a tribute to Michael Jackson, but more of an opportunity to profit from his death, and I am not surprised that no one wants to participate in it.

He will remain in the hearts of his children and those who depended on him for income. I hope I am around when Prince Michael writes his memoirs. He will eventually, because he will need the money.

[flipflop]

Did anyone watch the Barbara Walters interview? (was that a repeat and I am just slow to the race?)

[Unperson1984]

Dr. Murray supposedly gave the police a statement that he administered 25 mgs diprivan drip.

The coroner did not say it was an overdose of diprivan, but diprivan intoxication as the primary cause with other meds as a contributing factor.

I presume that the tox report did not reveal a higher amount of diprivan than what Dr. Murray reported.

There may be another drug however that hasn't been mentioned publicly in the tox report.

imo

That would be my best guess. Since the list of drugs Murray claims to have administered is already public, another drug is the only explanation for not releasing the tox report. Perhaps a self-administered drug which would make it more difficult to charge Murray.

[tiptop]

I believe the children will be very comfortable for the rest of their lives, as long as the executors uphold their fiduciary obligations to the estate. Every time a MJ song, or a Beatle's song is played, is another check in their pockets. Mr. Jackson may have had significant debt, but I believe his assets far outweigh the debt. And his post death earning potential has already skyrocketed, and will continue to do so for some time.

I hope you are correct, for the sake of the children. Michael owned it with Sony. It's not 100 percent to him. Plus Paul McCartney did manage to gain control of a few songs, not many though. Personally I think it will go toward MJ's debt and be exhausted. Wouldnt surprise me if the kids were left struggling in 15-20 years.

[who_is_it]

------------------

So that means u think she lied. why do u think she lied on her brother? imo

Again: I. don't. like. LaToya. This is my personal opinion. -- Therefore I don't care what she says.

[impartial]

I believe the children will be very comfortable for the rest of their lives, as long as the executors uphold their fiduciary obligations to the estate. Every time a MJ song, or a Beatle's song is played, is another check in their pockets. Mr. Jackson may have had significant debt, but I believe his assets far outweigh the debt. And his post death earning potential has already skyrocketed, and will continue to do so for some time.


If the songbook is so valuable, why didn't MJ have a ton of cash in the bank, why was the debt against Neverland $350M and it's value $60M.

Michael was losing Neverland, he couldn't pay the mortgage.

And I really don't hear the Beatles songs being played much. MJ's music will have an increase in airplay for a while, but for how long.

Also, it depends on what the original agreements were between the label, artist and writer. The label gets the lion share, the writer more than the artist, with the artist left with the smallest amount of the royalties while being responsible for all the costs of the concerts, band members, etc.

imo

[who_is_it]

I hope you are correct, for the sake of the children. Michael owned it with Sony. It's not 100 percent to him. Plus Paul McCartney did manage to gain control of a few songs, not many though. Personally I think it will go toward MJ's debt and be exhausted. Wouldnt surprise me if the kids were left struggling in 15-20 years.

As far as I know the Beatles catalogue is worth 1 billion!

[retiredcop]

Plus, if Murray was the hit man, I'm sure he would've figured a better way to do MJ in than dosing him with a rather stunning cocktail of traceable medications, all of which it appears he fessed up to to the authorities.

Heck, our state controller Kathy Augustine was done in by her husband with a shot of succinylcholine, a paralytic. He was an RN. And he would've got away with it had he not opened his big mouth right before he did the deed to another RN about how easy it is to kill someone with a shot of the stuff. Apparently, dead bodies produce a similar compound, so autopsies looking for it tend to be inconclusive. Fortunately, they took fluids from her before they took her off the machines in the hospital, and that's how they found the drug. They didn't even notice the injection site until they knew to look.

O/T, but my point is, if there was a conspiracy to kill MJ, I think a whole lot more *attention to detail* would've been given to exactly how that could be done without leaving such a stunning amount of evidence behind.

I'm just watching about that case as I white this. It is on Dominick Dunne: Power, Privilege on Tru TV. As a matter of fact it toatally paralyzes the body so there are no movements or twitches while the surgeon is operating.

Now that is a nasty drug used in surgery and needs a tube to breath. As a matter of fact it toatally paralyzes the body so there are no movements or twitches while the surgeon is operating. It is impossible to breath so the anesthesiologist must breath for you.

There is another case where a man named Dave Davis killed his wife with the drug. Nobody looked for that drug until it started being used in murders.

i don't believe for one minuet in a conspiracy killing regarding Michael Jackson. I have never believed in conspiracy theories. They are mostly on message boards and the internet for some reason anyway.

in my opinion