All Things Michael Jackson 4 [9/8]

[sallemae]

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-07-07/local/me-12852_1_grand-juries


from the article: ...said Wednesday that Dist. Atty. Gil Garcetti should charge their clients or exonerate them now that a grand jury investigating both matters has disbanded.

Also from the article: ...A new grand jury has been impaneled and could take up the work of its predecessor, although officials would not confirm that either case is now before it.



Sounds like no evidence to me.


imo

[sallemae]

http://site2.mjeol.com/pdf/important-article/jackson-grand-jury-disbanded-1994.pdf


from the link: One juror told CNN he did not hear any damaging testimony during the hearings. CNN has
previously reported the panel was never asked to render an indictment, and that no vote was
taken to do so.


imo

[Cindylee]

Good Morning. :smile:

A little MJ news from TMZ.

Michael Jackson -- Tales from the Crypt

Posted Sep 8th 2009 2:00AM by TMZ Staff

Michael JacksonMichael Jackson's body is already causing a market shift in the cemetery world -- the price of graves near his tomb are already sky-rocketing.

TMZ spoke with a sales rep at Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Glendale who told us plots surrounding Jackson have already gone up $2,000-$3,000 each since MJ joined the neighborhood.

FLM was selling pre-Jacko units in the mausoleum for $7,000 a pop -- now they're up to $9,900.

The cemetery rep tells us, "When a high-profile person comes in, it can affect the prices of the surrounding plots."

Some people who own private units near MJ's crypt are looking for a bigger payday -- one person is asking $34,000 for a double unit inside Jackson's mausoleum.

We spoke with owner of the double unit who told us, "We've had a tremendous response ... we're weighing all of our options."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0QWpb244M

[Firehead11]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/08/janet-jackson-suits-up-for-mj-vma-tribute/

Janet Jackson has been busting her butt rehearsing for a Michael Jackson tribute at the MTV Video Awards this weekend -- and it promises to be a nipple-free affair. We think.

Ms. Jackson is set to put on a huge MJ-honoring performance featuring 20 backup dancers -- which is being put together by some of the best choreographers in the world, including Frank Gatson and Travis Payne.

According to Kryiss Grant, one of the dancers involved (who was also an usher at MJ's burial), some rehearsals have lasted 15 hours a day.

Once Janet is finished honoring her brother, Grant tells us "there won't be a dry eye in the house."


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/08/janet-jackson-suits-up-for-mj-vma-tribute/#ixzz0QWqSgePO

[Imperfect4]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/08/janet-jackson-suits-up-for-mj-vma-tribute/

Janet Jackson has been busting her butt rehearsing for a Michael Jackson tribute at the MTV Video Awards this weekend -- and it promises to be a nipple-free affair. We think.

Ms. Jackson is set to put on a huge MJ-honoring performance featuring 20 backup dancers -- which is being put together by some of the best choreographers in the world, including Frank Gatson and Travis Payne.

According to Kryiss Grant, one of the dancers involved (who was also an usher at MJ's burial), some rehearsals have lasted 15 hours a day.

Once Janet is finished honoring her brother, Grant tells us "there won't be a dry eye in the house."


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/08/janet-jackson-suits-up-for-mj-vma-tribute/#ixzz0QWqSgePO

Right person to do it, right venue to do it in. imo

[Cindylee]

Jermaine from www.Radaronline.com Talks about MJ drug use.



Jermaine Jackson Calls Michael Jackson Drug Question UnfairJermaine Jackson Calls Michael Jackson Drug Question Unfair
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Posted on Sep 08, 2009 @ 11:13AM
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Random Things
WENN

Jermaine Jackson deflected a drug-related question regarding his late brother, Michael Jackson, on The CBS Early Show Tuesday.

"Your brother's (heavy prescription) drug use was not a secret," CBS personality Harry Smith said. "Are there moments when the family says, 'What could we have done differently, what should we have done differently, how could we have avoided where we are now?'"

"I wouldn't call it that," Jermaine said, from a location in Vienna, Austria, where he was announcing an annual tribute concert in the Thriller singer's honor. "I wouldn't call it that because, as I (have) stated before, there was nothing that I saw of anything of that substance. So for you to say that question to me is really not fair."

He defended even asking about the drug questions by citing Michael Jackson's well-known track record of philanthropy and humanitarianism.

"There's tremendous speculation and talk in the media, but at the same time, look at the person he was," Jermaine said. "He was a wonderful person."

Jermaine's concert, called The Tribute in Memory of Michael Jackson, is slated for September 26 in front of Schoenbrunn Palace in Vienna.

Michael Jackson died after suffering a sudden cardiac arrest June 25 in Los Angeles; officials declared Jackson's sedative-induced death a homicide, but no charges have been filed.

[Imperfect4]

Jermaine from www.Radaronline.com Talks about MJ drug use.



Jermaine Jackson Calls Michael Jackson Drug Question UnfairJermaine Jackson Calls Michael Jackson Drug Question Unfair
Bookmark and Share
Posted on Sep 08, 2009 @ 11:13AM
print it send it
Random Things
WENN

Jermaine Jackson deflected a drug-related question regarding his late brother, Michael Jackson, on The CBS Early Show Tuesday.

"Your brother's (heavy prescription) drug use was not a secret," CBS personality Harry Smith said. "Are there moments when the family says, 'What could we have done differently, what should we have done differently, how could we have avoided where we are now?'"

"I wouldn't call it that," Jermaine said, from a location in Vienna, Austria, where he was announcing an annual tribute concert in the Thriller singer's honor. "I wouldn't call it that because, as I (have) stated before, there was nothing that I saw of anything of that substance. So for you to say that question to me is really not fair."

He defended even asking about the drug questions by citing Michael Jackson's well-known track record of philanthropy and humanitarianism.

"There's tremendous speculation and talk in the media, but at the same time, look at the person he was," Jermaine said. "He was a wonderful person."

Jermaine's concert, called The Tribute in Memory of Michael Jackson, is slated for September 26 in front of Schoenbrunn Palace in Vienna.

Michael Jackson died after suffering a sudden cardiac arrest June 25 in Los Angeles; officials declared Jackson's sedative-induced death a homicide, but no charges have been filed.

Ain't no way any of the Jacksons will ever cop to knowing and doing either nothing, or not enough.

imo

[Firehead11]

Right person to do it, right venue to do it in. imo


I think MJ and Janet were the closest of the kids. Jermaine is still his brother but I am beginning to wonder about his relationship with Tohme.

[Cindylee]

Ain't no way any of the Jacksons will ever cop to knowing and doing either nothing, or not enough.

imo

Although isn't this a little back peddling? Didn't one of them say they were going to try to do an intervention?

[Firehead11]

Ain't no way any of the Jacksons will ever cop to knowing and doing either nothing, or not enough.

imo

Didn't LaToya stated something that they tried? As it has been pointed out, most of his family was not in touch with him on a regular basis. This is not an excuse but rather a might be... know what I mean?

[Firehead11]

http://blogs.uptownlife.net/rblock/?p=1806

In a lengthy interview, Tito told the newspaper — which seems likely to have paid him for his time, as The Daily Mail did with LaToya — that the family was so concerned over Michael’s alleged abuse of prescription pills that they planned a military-style intervention at Jackson’s then-home, Neverland Valley Ranch. (Representatives for the Mail had not responded to MTV News’ request for comment at press time.)

“I never saw him on drugs. Not once. He deliberately did it away from us. He didn’t want his family to know anything about that part of him,” Tito reportedly told the paper, adding that Jackson did everything in his power to hide his activities, even ordering his staff to bar his brothers and sisters from the ranch.

http://m.usmagazine.com/moviestvmusic/news/latoya-jackson-michael-was-murdered-2009117

She blamed this "shadowy entourage" for supplying him with prescription drugs. "They got him hooked on drugs," she said. "He was pure and clean and then drugs came back into his system. I think it shocked his system so much it killed him." Although results from toxicology tests will take a few more weeks to reveal a definitive cause of death, La Toya -- who signed Michael's death certificate on June 25 after he suffered a cardiac arrest at the age of 50 -- is certain the investigation will reveal her worst fears.

See Michael Jackson's most unforgettable moments.

"He had needle marks on his neck and on his arms and more about those will emerge in the next few weeks," she said. " I cannot discuss that any further as I may jeopardise the investigation. I can, however, say that I have not changed my mind about my feeling that Michael was murdered." She added: "It will all come out. You will be shocked." La Toya, 53, also asserts that Michael -- whom she said "was the loneliest man in the world" -- was forced into doing 50 concerts in London and was kept away from his family as he went to rehearsals, costume fittings and vocal lessons at all hours. "It's impossible even for a healthy person to do that many shows," she said. "Michael was fragile. He always wanted to believe the best of people. But he was meek. In the last few months, he became isolated. I believe the staff were given strict instructions that if any of the family called, not to tell him. And if any of the family came by, not to let them in."

[Firehead11]

I think he was murdered too. I read last night that Dr. Murray moved Michael from room to room, to try to cover his tracks, and that the coroner knows this because of the levidity in the body, and the conclusion was that Michael died 5 hours before 911 was called.


Where did you read that Nic? I will admit that I didn't have a chance to read much this weekend at all.

[Cindylee]

I think he was murdered too. I read last night that Dr. Murray moved Michael from room to room, to try to cover his tracks, and that the coroner knows this because of the levidity in the body, and the conclusion was that Michael died 5 hours before 911 was called.

I would like to read that too. Interesting.

[Imperfect4]

Although isn't this a little back peddling? Didn't one of them say they were going to try to do an intervention?

Good luck getting any of them to admit that.

[Firehead11]

Good luck getting any of them to admit that.


See post 9

[Imperfect4]

Didn't LaToya stated something that they tried? As it has been pointed out, most of his family was not in touch with him on a regular basis. This is not an excuse but rather a might be... know what I mean?

I suspect what the Jacksons have said in the past will not be repeated, and will be denied if they are questioned ... Unless sufficient $$ are offered for a tell-all. Then one or more may sell out for his/her own benefit.

For now, I'd say they'll all be singularly focused on what they might collectively gain from civil suits against doctors.

Sorry to sound snarky, but not one Jackson has given me cause to believe what they say, and they have all given me cause to assume it's all about the Benjamins, at the end of the day.

[Firehead11]

I am not in their shoes and I really do not know about the siblings careers, but I do believe that most have been riding on Michael's back for years. Some may continue to do that. Amazing how the youngest children had the biggest burden of them all, isn't it.

[Imperfect4]

See post 9

Toya isn't credible, imo.

If she wants to be taken seriously, she can start by losing the snakes and that soft core porn career she seems to have immersed herself in.

[Firehead11]

Toya isn't credible, imo.

If she wants to be taken seriously, she can start by losing the snakes and that soft core porn career she seems to have immersed herself in.


I would tend to agree with you on that BUT I don't think she is creditable at any time, not just this time.

[Imperfect4]

I would tend to agree with you on that BUT I don't think she is creditable at any time, not just this time.

Exactly my point.

[Imperfect4]

In the long line at the grocery store. I don't remember which one it was.

Get us a link, please. You've been around long enough to know you can't post something that controversial without a link.

[Firehead11]

To be fair, Nic hasn't been the first person to post something controversial without a link and I am positive, she won't be the last either.

[Imperfect4]

To be fair, Nic hasn't been the first person to post something controversial without a link and I am positive, she won't be the last either.

No need to speak for Nic. Hopefully she'll be back shortly to speak for herself. With a link.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

Jackson tribute concert in Vienna with Mary J. Blige, Akon (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j7hWZ3Z1rT7TNL_KIi17FeyV9QLg)

VIENNA — R & B stars such as Mary J. Blige, Akon, Chris Brown, Natalie Cole and boy band US5 will top the bill at a Michael Jackson tribute concert in Vienna on September 26, organisers said Tuesday.

Musicians and dancers who were due to perform in Jackson's comeback shows in London this summer will also grace the stage in front of Vienna's sumptuous Schoenbrunn Palace, alongside actress Angela Bassett, they said.

Missing from the lineup are such big names as Madonna, Whitney Houston, U2 and Lionel Ritchie, who had been rumoured ahead of Tuesday's press conference.

[daniel green]

snipped

Once Janet is finished honoring her brother, Grant tells us "there won't be a dry eye in the house."


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/08/janet-jackson-suits-up-for-mj-vma-tribute/#ixzz0QWqSgePO

Yikes. :ohmy:

She does know that Russel Brand is hosting the event live, right?

[daniel green]

Jackson tribute concert in Vienna with Mary J. Blige, Akon (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j7hWZ3Z1rT7TNL_KIi17FeyV9QLg)

VIENNA — R & B stars such as Mary J. Blige, Akon, Chris Brown, Natalie Cole and boy band US5 will top the bill at a Michael Jackson tribute concert in Vienna on September 26, organisers said Tuesday.

snipped.

PERFECT. Akon and Chris Brown.
:cursing:

[retiredcop]

I think he was murdered too. I read last night that Dr. Murray moved Michael from room to room, to try to cover his tracks, and that the coroner knows this because of the levidity in the body, and the conclusion was that Michael died 5 hours before 911 was called.

OK, waiting for a link. Until than this is a lie.:rolleyes:

GMAB

in my opinion

[Unperson1984]

PERFECT. Akon and Chris Brown.
:cursing:

Not to be confused with Tito's tribute concerts in the UK, right?

“Katherine, the late King of Pop's mother, was due to attend the concert, along with Michael Jackson's three children, Jermaine said.”

Does this mean they’re not planing to attend at this point?

:confused:

[Firehead11]

No need to speak for Nic. Hopefully she'll be back shortly to speak for herself. With a link.

I wasn't speaking for Nic, just was pointing out a fact. I am still waiting for some of the links I have asked for.

[Imperfect4]

Not to be confused with Tito's tribute concerts in the UK, right?

“Katherine, the late King of Pop's mother, was due to attend the concert, along with Michael Jackson's three children, Jermaine said.”

Does this mean they’re not planing to attend at this point?

:confused:

I think it means Jermaine's using MJ's kids as an additional draw for his event.

Ugh.

[Imperfect4]

I wasn't speaking for Nic, just was pointing out a fact. I am still waiting for some of the links I have asked for.

Then there's no need for you and I to be discussing Nic's lack of a link.

[daniel green]

I think it means Jermaine's using MJ's kids as an additional draw for his event.

Ugh.

Oh, blech.

Poor, poor kids.

[Firehead11]

No need to get snarky either.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

No link. It was something I read while waiting in line at the store. Its your choice to believe or disbelieve either; that I read it, or what I said I read. I didn't state a fact, I stated what I read in line at the store.

Was it something similar to this article?

JACKSON 'DEAD FOR 5 HOURS' BEFORE 911 CALL~Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/123802/Jackson-dead-for-5-hours-before-911-call)

MICHAEL JACKSON may have been dead for five hours before paramedics were called, forensic evidence has revealed. Experts now believe he was moved to his own master bedroom suite by two people after he died from cardiac arrest.

[Firehead11]

Was it something similar to this article?

JACKSON 'DEAD FOR 5 HOURS' BEFORE 911 CALL~Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/123802/Jackson-dead-for-5-hours-before-911-call)

MICHAEL JACKSON may have been dead for five hours before paramedics were called, forensic evidence has revealed. Experts now believe he was moved to his own master bedroom suite by two people after he died from cardiac arrest.

Thank You for providing this. IIRC, we did speak about this a while back also.

[Imperfect4]

No link. It was something I read while waiting in line at the store. Its your choice to believe or disbelieve either; that I read it, or what I said I read. I didn't state a fact, I stated what I read in line at the store.

Does it strike you at all odd that you made several extremely long posts over the weekend in praise of MJ, complete with links, including full song lyrics to several of his songs, but yet you come here today and drop that bomb, with no link and no recollection of which rag you read in the supermarket checkout line?

Please.

[Firehead11]

Thank you Firehead. I don't think they care if there is a link or not.


No need to thank me, Nic. I just hate double standards and that has always been the case when dealing with Jackson's and Anna Nicole Smith's death.

[Imperfect4]

Was it something similar to this article?

JACKSON 'DEAD FOR 5 HOURS' BEFORE 911 CALL~Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/123802/Jackson-dead-for-5-hours-before-911-call)

MICHAEL JACKSON may have been dead for five hours before paramedics were called, forensic evidence has revealed. Experts now believe he was moved to his own master bedroom suite by two people after he died from cardiac arrest.

Ah, yes. The ever popular, unnamed "expert" and "forensic specialist" sources. And the article is over a week old.

[Unperson1984]

Was it something similar to this article?

JACKSON 'DEAD FOR 5 HOURS' BEFORE 911 CALL~Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/123802/Jackson-dead-for-5-hours-before-911-call)

MICHAEL JACKSON may have been dead for five hours before paramedics were called, forensic evidence has revealed. Experts now believe he was moved to his own master bedroom suite by two people after he died from cardiac arrest.

I think the doctors at UCLA would have noticed it was a body that had died six hours before it arrived at the hospital.

There are significant and obvious changes to the eye within three hours of death, not to mention the development of rigor in the face and neck area. Add to it he was found in a very warm room which accelerates both of the above signs of death.

IMHO

[Imperfect4]

I made a separate thread entiltled "All good things-Michael Jackson"
where I posted several long articles and songs by MJ. Those posts were intended for anyone who wanted to read good things about MJ, instead of the rumors, lies and disrespect. If it had been my choice to either delete the thread or merge it with this thread, I would have chosen to delete it rather than merge it with a thread who's spirit is not aligned with the "all good things" thread. My intent was to post info on a thread, where it would not get picked apart, or the authors get attacked. And it was working until the 2 threads merged.

What I dropped today wasn't exactly a bomb, just something I happened to glance at while shopping yesterday. Nothing so big and bad that it should create any controversy.

This isn't your forum, so it isn't your choice. It's easy enough to launch your own MJ fan site and control all activity on it, at all times. That might be a better venue for your need to pay tribute to MJ than a discussion board.

I disagree about your intent. Your intent was to discourage discussion. On a discussion board.

[Imperfect4]

If one is discussing facts and furnishing links it is not bashing. jmo

Exactly. And the intent of using terms like "bashing" and "haters" is also to shut down discussion. On a discussion board.

Fortunately, it rarely works, and says more about the poster making the accusations than anything else.

The constant labeling and making posts which attempt to induce guilt in posters who aren't worshiping at the altar of MJ is tiresome.

[daniel green]

On Tuesday, Jermaine Jackson will unveil plans for the “The Tribute,” the September 26 concert dedicated to his brother Michael, to be held in Vienna, Austria. The concert was originally announced in mid-August, and has yet to draw any of the big names Jackson originally bandied about — Larry King’s wife Shawn was the biggest name attached, and has since dropped out. Regardless of who appears on the roster after Tuesday’s announcement, ticket holders should be wary. The fine print on the show’s Web site makes no guarantees that any performers touted will show, and if they don’t, there’s no getting your money back. “Jermaine Jackson and the producers will make every attempt to present some of the world’s leading artists, however there is no right or legal claim whatsoever that certain artists will perform ‘The Tribute’,” according to the site. “All ticket sales are final. Any refund or discount due to the performance or non-performance of a specific artist is hereby explicitly excluded.” Tickets range from $78-$702, based on current exchange rates (they’re priced in euros), and other Jackson family members aren’t happy with Jermaine for moving forward with little-to-no support. “He’s been told he’s fleecing people in Michael’s name,” said one member of the Jackson clan.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32726977/ns/entertainment-gossip/

[Imperfect4]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32726977/ns/entertainment-gossip/

Unbelievable.

The Jacksons (with the exception of Janet, imo) need to get the hint the worst thing they can do is associate themselves with money-making ventures in Michael's name.

They stand to get a whole lot richer by simply fading to black and letting unrelated professionals make their money for them.

Skip the fame angle. Sit back and collect the cash they "earned" by being related to MJ.

[Imperfect4]

I call it rumor and the bashing of a victim of a homicide, who has no way to defend himself, and his family.

You're really in no position to use the word "rumor," Nic, linkless as you are today.

[Imperfect4]

Are you pretending to be the moderator today?

I'm asking for your link to the rumor you posted upthread. I thought that was obvious.

[Unperson1984]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32726977/ns/entertainment-gossip/

I notice in the other article about Jermaine's concert only half the tickets have sold, and those were sold when it was rumored A-list celebrities would be performing.

[Eagleeye]

I think the doctors at UCLA would have noticed it was a body that had died six hours before it arrived at the hospital.

There are significant and obvious changes to the eye within three hours of death, not to mention the development of rigor in the face and neck area. Add to it he was found in a very warm room which accelerates both of the above signs of death.

IMHO

You are right UP however, it also keeps the body warm and makes it more difficult to determine the TOD. The body looses temperature after death at the rate of 1 to 1 1/2 degrees per hour till it reaches room temp. It is my opinion that Dr. Murray set the temp up to try to cover his tracks so to speak.

[Cindylee]

Yeah, she sold out on Michael a long time ago.

Sold out? Or was she first telling the truth?

[Cindylee]

Was it something similar to this article?

JACKSON 'DEAD FOR 5 HOURS' BEFORE 911 CALL~Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/123802/Jackson-dead-for-5-hours-before-911-call)

MICHAEL JACKSON may have been dead for five hours before paramedics were called, forensic evidence has revealed. Experts now believe he was moved to his own master bedroom suite by two people after he died from cardiac arrest.

Thanks Rockstar.

[Firehead11]

Sold out? Or was she first telling the truth?

It comes down to this with LaToya, at least one time she lied.. was it about that Jackson did molest the children or was it when she said he didn't? Since he was not convicted of it, then I would say he didn't molest any children but she needed media attention. :confused:

[Cindylee]

It comes down to this with LaToya, at least one time she lied.. was it about that Jackson did molest the children or was it when she said he didn't? Since he was not convicted of it, then I would say he didn't molest any children but she needed media attention. :confused:

Or it could mean that La Toya was right, and the jury got it wrong. Either way, he is gone, and it doesn't really matter now. Except to those that were involved.

[Imperfect4]

The only thing obvious is your harassment against me.

Like I said, the constant effort to assign guilt to other posters here is tiresome. Extremely tiresome.

[RootBeer]

Or it could mean that La Toya was right, and the jury got it wrong. Either way, he is gone, and it doesn't really matter now. Except to those that were involved.

I keep thinking about Jordan Chandler..........

[Imperfect4]

You could try using your ignore function.

But then I'd miss that link I'm sure you're about to provide. :smile:

[retiredcop]

You are right UP however, it also keeps the body warm and makes it more difficult to determine the TOD. The body looses temperature after death at the rate of 1 to 1 1/2 degrees per hour till it reaches room temp. It is my opinion that Dr. Murray set the temp up to try to cover his tracks so to speak.


Turning up the heat makes the body decompose faster or didn't you know that. The temperature was kept up because Mr Jackson wanted it that way.

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

I keep thinking about Jordan Chandler..........

and ?????................

[flipflop]

Katherine to Jermaine: The Show Must Not Go On

Posted Sep 8th 2009 5:08PM by TMZ Staff

Katherine Jackson and Jemaine JacksonKatherine Jackson and other members of her family are angry at Jermaine over the Michael Jackson tribute concert in Vienna -- this according to various sources.

Members of the Jackson family along with others connected with the event claim Katherine was badgered into announcing her support of the September 26 event. The sources say Jermaine was complaining to his mom about all the bad press he was receiving and repeatedly asked her to support the Vienna event.

Our sources say other than Jermaine none of the other family members will be going to Vienna for the concert.

The sources say the family thinks it makes no sense to hold the first tribute event in a country that has no special connection to Michael Jackson.

One family member says it's another example of Jermaine doing what's best for Jermaine, regardless of what the rest of the family wants. The family member scoffed at the event, calling it "The Jermaine Jackson show."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0QYmi4C4c

[RootBeer]

Katherine Jackson and other members of her family are angry at Jermaine over the Michael Jackson tribute concert in Vienna -- this according to various sources.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0QYoMF1S7

[RootBeer]

and ?????................

I wonder how he is doing emotionally over the death of MJ. :sad:

[Eagleeye]

Turning up the heat makes the body decompose faster or didn't you know that. The temperature was kept up because Mr Jackson wanted it that way.

in my opinion

Of course I know that cop and you know I know that, and I said nothing about decomposition in my post. However when the coroner measures the liver temp it will be skewed due to the high temperature in the room which makes timing the cause of death more difficult. Please don't argue medical issues as I have forgotten more than you obviously have ever known. It doesn't matter whether MJ wanted it that way or not. The point is that it was up and that is why it is part of the reason the time of death is in question.

[Imperfect4]

Katherine to Jermaine: The Show Must Not Go On

Posted Sep 8th 2009 5:08PM by TMZ Staff

Katherine Jackson and Jemaine JacksonKatherine Jackson and other members of her family are angry at Jermaine over the Michael Jackson tribute concert in Vienna -- this according to various sources.

Members of the Jackson family along with others connected with the event claim Katherine was badgered into announcing her support of the September 26 event. The sources say Jermaine was complaining to his mom about all the bad press he was receiving and repeatedly asked her to support the Vienna event.

Our sources say other than Jermaine none of the other family members will be going to Vienna for the concert.

The sources say the family thinks it makes no sense to hold the first tribute event in a country that has no special connection to Michael Jackson.

One family member says it's another example of Jermaine doing what's best for Jermaine, regardless of what the rest of the family wants. The family member scoffed at the event, calling it "The Jermaine Jackson show."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0QYmi4C4c

This family is a trip. I predict they'll be eating their young soon enough.

[Unperson1984]

Seems like what we have here is a failure to communicate...


http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b143028_oops_chris_brown_wont_beat_it_jackson.html

Didn't we here at one point that President Obama was going to appear, the White House denied. Madonna was suppose to appear, but she denied. Now we're down to Chris Brown denying he'll be there.

[retiredcop]

Of course I know that cop and you know I know that, and I said nothing about decomposition in my post. However when the coroner measures the liver temp it will be skewed due to the high temperature in the room which makes timing the cause of death more difficult. Please don't argue medical issues as I have forgotten more than you obviously have ever known. It doesn't matter whether MJ wanted it that way or not. The point is that it was up and that is why it is part of the reason the time of death is in question.

The time of death is not in question. He died at 2:26 pm in the emergency room.

I have seen nothing that the time of death is in question other than on this message board.

in my opinion

[annalicious]

I keep thinking about Jordan Chandler..........

Hope he himself keeps thinking. I doubt he could sleep at night with all the millions under his pillow.

[annalicious]

The time of death is not in question. He died at 2:26 pm in the emergency room.

I have seen nothing that the time of death is in question other than on this message board.

in my opinion


As far as I know he was dead already at home.

[Unperson1984]

As far as I know he was dead already at home.

The doctors at UCLA could have called MJ DOA, but they didn't.

:shrug:

[RootBeer]

Posted Sep 8th 2009 4:00AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson's body is already causing a market shift in the cemetery world -- the price of graves near his tomb are already sky-rocketing.

TMZ spoke with a sales rep at Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Glendale who told us plots surrounding Jackson have already gone up $2,000-$3,000 each since MJ joined the neighborhood.

FLM was selling pre-Jacko units in the mausoleum for $7,000 a pop -- now they're up to $9,900.

The cemetery rep tells us, "When a high-profile person comes in, it can affect the prices of the surrounding plots."

Some people who own private units near MJ's crypt are looking for a bigger payday -- one person is asking $34,000 for a double unit inside Jackson's mausoleum.

We spoke with owner of the double unit who told us, "We've had a tremendous response ... we're weighing all of our options."




Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0QZ3hbiE9

[Firehead11]

and thinks about his virginity being stolen by a superstar ....

He could be thinking about how his father also used him to get to Jackson. We don't know.

[RootBeer]

He could be thinking about how his father also used him to get to Jackson. We don't know.

I think Jordan's mother used MJ more than the father. She did a lot of traveling and shopping while her son slept with a superstar. She had full custody of Jordan at the time when Michael became intimate with him.

[Unperson1984]

No cop, he was pronounced dead at 2:26 pm which doesn't mean that is when he died. The EMT's wanted to pronounce him dead hours earlier and Dr. Murray wouldn't allow them to. Doesn't that raise a red flag for you. He had lividity in the OR which happens from about 30 minutes to three hours after death. Apparently you haven't read some of the reports that validate this.

The only report that matters, the ME's report, hasn't been released yet.

[Imperfect4]

The only report that matters, the ME's report, hasn't been released yet.

Thank you.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

The doctors at UCLA could have called MJ DOA, but they didn't.

:shrug:

Of course they could have..but you have to take into consideration WHO the patient WAS..and the fact that the paramedic had a full code ongoing when they arrived..not to mention the ATTENDING physician was insisting full code be conducted..What are they to do??..IF they called it..( meaning denying resuscitation..they would always be called to fault.).so..given the circumstances..they pulled out all stops and tried..to NO AVAIL!!..as the poor man was DEAD..and likely had been for sometime!!..But that proof will come into trial..if and when that occurs..

I still have to say..given what I have read and my knowledge base..MJ was Dead at the scene..and had been for sometime..and IT will all come out in the wash..Court Proceedings...Im going out on a limb...but mark my words..MJ was DEAD long before that 911call...I will eat that proverbial "Crow Sandwich" if proven wrong....Crow is not my favorite wither!!

LMS

[GentleBreeze]

Of course they could have..but you have to take into conseration WHO the patient WAS..and the fact that the paramedic had a full code ongoing when they arrived..not to mention the ATTENDING physician was insisting full code be conducted..What are they to do??..IF they called it..( meaning denying resuscitation..they would always be called to fault.).so..given the circumstances..they pulled out all stops and tried..to NO AVAIL!!..as the poor man was DEAD..and likely had been for sometime!!..But that proof will come into trial..if and when that occurs..

I still have to say..given what I have read and my knowledge base..MJ was Dead at the scene..and had been for sometime..and IT will all come out in the wash..Court Proceedings...Im going out on a limb...but mark my words..MJ was DEAD long before that 911call...I will eat that proverbial "Crow Sandwich" if proven wrong....Crow is not my favorite wither!!

LMS

I agree, Lynda.

Just because they finally stood down and called it at 2:26 pm doesn't mean he ever showed any signs of life as they tried to resuscitate him.

imo

[Lyndawitha"Y]

These guys are great. :laugh::laugh:

You know..these videos..only reminded me just how fun loving my fellow co-workers were.....In all the hard situations we witnessed..we just had to have that "Black HumoUR" to get us thru those bleak and heartbreaking times...I really in truly enjoyed these guys!! TY to all who posted those links!!..I will never quite listen to those oldie goldies quit the same..LOL.

LMS:laugh:

[retiredcop]

Of course they could have..but you have to take into consideration WHO the patient WAS..and the fact that the paramedic had a full code ongoing when they arrived..not to mention the ATTENDING physician was insisting full code be conducted..What are they to do??..IF they called it..( meaning denying resuscitation..they would always be called to fault.).so..given the circumstances..they pulled out all stops and tried..to NO AVAIL!!..as the poor man was DEAD..and likely had been for sometime!!..But that proof will come into trial..if and when that occurs..

I still have to say..given what I have read and my knowledge base..MJ was Dead at the scene..and had been for sometime..and IT will all come out in the wash..Court Proceedings...Im going out on a limb...but mark my words..MJ was DEAD long before that 911call...I will eat that proverbial "Crow Sandwich" if proven wrong....Crow is not my favorite wither!!

LMS

That's not true. I guess you didn't watch Michael Jackson: His Final Days. The Fire Captain on the scene did an interview. Maybe you should watch that so you will stop repeating the same old rumors.

The truth is in the autopsy report which is not available.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I wonder who all the stars are that are suppose to attend?

[Lyndawitha"Y]

That's not true. I guess you didn't watch Michael Jackson: His Final Days. The Fire Captain on the scene did an interview. Maybe you should watch that so you will stop repeating the same old rumors.

The truth is in the autopsy report which is not available.

in my opinion

Please R..T...I never mentioned any report..nor made any claim to any rumor or claim by any report..I only made a comment on the impression I got from my knowledge base ( btw..the poster wondered why the staff at UCLA continued full code)..knowing about drugs..and what does happen..but please..unless you have been involved in any ER with a code..and have decades of experience..kindly refraim from claiming I am spreading rumor!!..I did not repeat any rumor..so kindly stop insinuating that I did...I can only speak to what I Know and have insight on..which you can believe or not..but please...Non-medical people need to mind their rhetoric..until they know of which I am saying....

Why..would you feel the need to post what you just did..I am baffled?

Re-read my post and the post that I responded to..You just may understand what I am saying..Knee Jerk responses arent always on target.At least in this case..You completely missed it!!

LMS

PS..What I posted was MY OPINION..based on my personal KNOWLEDGE. "Right or Wrong" in your eyes will ultimately be proven in court..and we will all have to wait for that!!..

[Cindylee]

You know..these videos..only reminded me just how fun loving my fellow co-workers were.....In all the hard situations we witnessed..we just had to have that "Black HumoUR" to get us thru those bleak and heartbreaking times...I really in truly enjoyed these guys!! TY to all who posted those links!!..I will never quite listen to those oldie goldies quit the same..LOL.

LMS:laugh:

My ER friend has me cracking up all the time with her stories. OMG, too funny.

One more from these guys. They are now singing at conferences. And you can by their CD's and download their songs. They are really pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtktUIUHmp4

Actually though, this one is sort of sad, because it could have been made for MJ.

[sallemae]

This isn't your forum, so it isn't your choice. It's easy enough to launch your own MJ fan site and control all activity on it, at all times. That might be a better venue for your need to pay tribute to MJ than a discussion board.

I disagree about your intent. Your intent was to discourage discussion. On a discussion board.



Is there really much discussion about MJ, either posters are hating him and saying all kinds of things as if they were fact, when they are not, and the few posters that are not hating him, get a terrible rap here.



imo

[Unperson1984]

Of course they could have..but you have to take into consideration WHO the patient WAS..and the fact that the paramedic had a full code ongoing when they arrived..not to mention the ATTENDING physician was insisting full code be conducted..What are they to do??..IF they called it..( meaning denying resuscitation..they would always be called to fault.).so..given the circumstances..they pulled out all stops and tried..to NO AVAIL!!..as the poor man was DEAD..and likely had been for sometime!!..But that proof will come into trial..if and when that occurs..

I still have to say..given what I have read and my knowledge base..MJ was Dead at the scene..and had been for sometime..and IT will all come out in the wash..Court Proceedings...Im going out on a limb...but mark my words..MJ was DEAD long before that 911call...I will eat that proverbial "Crow Sandwich" if proven wrong....Crow is not my favorite wither!!

LMS

I don't profess any medical knowledge, but earlier it was posted that MJ was dead for five hours before the 911 call. That would mean he had been dead for six hours before he arrived at UCLA.

I have posted links to forensic sites which explain the changes that take place within three hours of death and I do not believe that the excellent doctors at UCLA couldn't recognize a six-hour-dead corpse.

[sallemae]

Exactly. And the intent of using terms like "bashing" and "haters" is also to shut down discussion. On a discussion board.

Fortunately, it rarely works, and says more about the poster making the accusations than anything else.

The constant labeling and making posts which attempt to induce guilt in posters who aren't worshiping at the altar of MJ is tiresome.


Using terms like "worshiping of MJ" ......says more about the poster making the accusations than anything else.

The constant labeling and making post which attempt to induce guilt in a posters who aren't "bashing" and "haters"....


kinda of ironic.....imo

[sallemae]

I keep thinking about Jordan Chandler..........


And how he spent his millions!

[Imperfect4]

Is there really much discussion about MJ, either posters are hating him and saying all kinds of things as if they were fact, when they are not, and the few posters that are not hating him, get a terrible rap here.



imo

You've got that completely backwards, but whatever.

[ABC]

It is a rumor the EMTs said he was dead. It is a rumor Dr Murray made them continue on a corpse. It is a rumor the ER doctors worked on a corpse for over an hour. He was worked on because there was a chance to revive him. That is what doctors do.

I believe a Fire Captain that was on the scene much more than a poster on a message board who claims they have years of experience in the medical field.

in my opinion

Good post. I too, would believe a Fire Captain.

[Eagleeye]

[quote"The LAFD received a 911 call for a 50 year old male who was not breathing and unresponsive. Engine 71 and paramedic rescue ambulance 71 responded and was on scene within a few minutes," Marc Eckstein, MD, MPH, FACEP, Medical Director of the Los Angeles Fire Department, told JEMS.com. "They found Mr. Jackson in full cardiac arrest with CPR in progress."

"LAFD members immediately took over CPR and intiated both basic and advanced life support interventions," Eckstein continued. "They aggressively attempted resuscitation on scene for approximately 30 minutes, and after consultation with on-line medical control at the UCLA base station, they continued resuscitative efforts during the short transport to the UCLA emergency department. There was no change in the patient's status during his prehospital course."quote]

One would conclude that MJ was dead on arrival at the hospital as they were obviously unsuccessful in restoring his vital signs. He was dead even though they tried in the ER to save him. He was without a heartbeat and was not breathing far to long to restore his life.

You can believe that because of who he was that they went the extra futile mile to try to revive him. And I believe that it was for the sake of the family which is done more often than some here would believe.

http://www.firefighternation.com/forum/topics/michael-jackson-ems-response

[Cindylee]

[quote"The LAFD received a 911 call for a 50 year old male who was not breathing and unresponsive. Engine 71 and paramedic rescue ambulance 71 responded and was on scene within a few minutes," Marc Eckstein, MD, MPH, FACEP, Medical Director of the Los Angeles Fire Department, told JEMS.com. "They found Mr. Jackson in full cardiac arrest with CPR in progress."

"LAFD members immediately took over CPR and intiated both basic and advanced life support interventions," Eckstein continued. "They aggressively attempted resuscitation on scene for approximately 30 minutes, and after consultation with on-line medical control at the UCLA base station, they continued resuscitative efforts during the short transport to the UCLA emergency department. There was no change in the patient's status during his prehospital course."quote]

One would conclude that MJ was dead on arrival at the hospital as they were obviously unsuccessful in restoring his vital signs. He was dead even though they tried in the ER to save him. He was without a heartbeat and was not breathing far to long to restore his life.

You can believe that because of who he was that they went the extra futile mile to try to revive him. And I believe that it was for the sake of the family which is done more often than some here would believe.

http://www.firefighternation.com/forum/topics/michael-jackson-ems-response

I truly think that MJ was dead before the paramedics got there. I don't know exactly why the ER at UCLA would work on him for so long, but, I do think he was long dead. :shrug:

[Eagleeye]

As of this moment the cause of death has been labeled as Cardiac Arrest (http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4481). Currently there are no statistics for the exact number of Cardiac Arrests that occur each year; however it's estimated that more than 95 percent of Cardiac Arrest Victims die before reaching the hospital. I recall as an Emergency Medical Technician arriving to the scene of Cardiac Arrest Patients and the scenes were almost eerily similar. The patients almost always presented lying on their back, some on the bed but most were on the floor stretched out with their eyes open.
snipped:
I moved swiftly to prepare the defibrillator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_external_defibrillator)and my partner performed CPR (Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation). When defibrillation is provided within 5 to 7 minutes, the survival rate from sudden Cardiac Arrest is 30–45 percent. After preparing the defibrillator we anxiously waited for instructions from the machine. After following the instructions CPR (http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4479)was the last order that was given. This time I performed chest compressions and my partner used a Bag Valve Mask (http://www.procpr.org/cpr-training-video.php?video=intro-to-bag-valve-mask-1)to provide the patient with oxygen.
snipped:
One of the paramedics phoned the doctor that was on call to receive further instructions and give him the details of the patient including the patients medical history and current medications, after moments which seemed like hours the paramedic was instructed to pronounce the patient dead as we had performed all the interventions that would have been performed in the hospital. I recall praying silently to myself for the patient each time that I performed chest compressions and praying more profoundly silently as another rib broke. Until the paramedic announced the patients time of death I continued chest compressions hoping that I would stimulate the heart with the next compression. It was useless and the patient was pronounced dead.

Full article here:
http://www.examiner.com/x-5545-Norfolk-Health-and-Beauty-Examiner~y2009m6d28-What-the-death-of-Michael-Jackson-means-to-you-by-Joshua-Hill

[Eagleeye]

There was no mention of defibrillation during the period Dr. Murray worked on MJ at home before the EMT's arrived which supposedly was a period of thirty minutes or so. He didn't have a chance of survival.

"Brain death and permanent death start to occur in just 4 to 6 minutes after someone experiences cardiac arrest. Cardiac arrest can be reversed if it's treated within a few minutes with an electric shock to the heart to restore a normal heartbeat. This process is called defibrillation. A victim's chances of survival are reduced by 7 to 10 percent with every minute that passes without CPR and defibrillation. Few attempts at resuscitation succeed after 10 minutes."

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4481

[Unperson1984]

I truly think that MJ was dead before the paramedics got there. I don't know exactly why the ER at UCLA would work on him for so long, but, I do think he was long dead. :shrug:

I believe he was dead, but not for 5 or 6 hours.

[Cindylee]

I believe he was dead, but not for 5 or 6 hours.

No, not for 5 or 6 hours.

[Cindylee]

Home school for the kids.....I was hoping they would get to go to school. I think it is sad.


The Jackson Kids' Education -- Home Works

Posted Sep 9th 2009 1:45AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson's kids won't be attending a swanky school in Los Angeles after all -- the family has decided to keep them enrolled at the one learning facility they are very familiar with ... home.

Michael Jackson's Kids

A source extremely close to the situation tells us the decision was made not to enroll Michael Jr., Paris, and Prince at the Buckley School -- where Tito's three kids attended -- so they could continue being home schooled by the same tutors they had under Michael's supervision.

The only difference -- their home is now the Jackson's place in Encino, not Michael's place in Holmby Hills.

We're told the Jackson family is pulling out all the stops to recreate a "normal" school environment -- they're even building a school yard, complete with a volleyball court, so the kids can enjoy P.E. time. The kids will also go on field trips and have a designated "lunch hour" in between classes.

More Jackson Kids

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0QaVnTK2K

[Cindylee]

Lots to talk about tomorrow.............


Jacksons -- Problems With Wrongful Death Suit

Posted Sep 9th 2009 1:40AM by TMZ Staff

Various members of Michael Jackson's family tell TMZ they are already talking about lawyers who might rep them in a wrongful death lawsuit against Dr. Conrad Murray and others ... but Jackson's death may prove to be such an economic bonanza that it could torpedo a lawsuit.

In California, Jackson's immediate family could sue for the economic loss they have suffered by Jackson's death -- e.g., the financial support Jackson could have provided had he lived. Here's the problem -- Jackson's death may actually be an economic gain. It's already becoming clear Michael Jackson is more profitable in death than he was in the last years of his life. Therefore, even if lawyers proved Dr. Murray and others were responsible for Jackson's death ... they could still come up with goose eggs.

The family could also recover for non-economic damages such as loss of companionship and love. The problem -- in California, if the lawsuit is based on malpractice against a medical provider, these damages would be limited to $250,000 total.

The final possibility -- if the family could prove the defendants acted with malice, they could get punitive damages. "Malice" includes proof of "despicable conduct." The family could also win punitive damages if the defendant is convicted of felony homicide. But in California, punitive damages have to bear some relationship to damages for economic or non-economic losses. Typically punitives are limited to nine times those damages.

It ain't as easy as it seems.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0QaWoOh5s

[sallemae]

This family is a trip. I predict they'll be eating their young soon enough.


How could they do that and still make money off of them? :rolleyes:

[sallemae]

and thinks about his virginity being stolen by a superstar ....


Are there different types of virginity? What exactly did MJ steal from him? Just the facts please.

[sallemae]

You're wrong. He died at 2:26 pm in the emergency room. What raises a red flag with me is you are again bringing this up. :rolleyes:

in my opinion



I believe that's when they pronounced him DEAD, we don't know when he actually died. imo

[sallemae]

It is a rumor the EMTs said he was dead. It is a rumor Dr Murray made them continue on a corpse. It is a rumor the ER doctors worked on a corpse for over an hour. He was worked on because there was a chance to revive him. That is what doctors do.

I believe a Fire Captain that was on the scene much more than a poster on a message board who claims they have years of experience in the medical field.

in my opinion


A chance to revive him.....the word revive tells you he was dead! imo

[Firehead11]

It is a rumor the EMTs said he was dead. It is a rumor Dr Murray made them continue on a corpse. It is a rumor the ER doctors worked on a corpse for over an hour. He was worked on because there was a chance to revive him. That is what doctors do.

I believe a Fire Captain that was on the scene much more than a poster on a message board who claims they have years of experience in the medical field.

in my opinion

I think I would believe the MEDICS that had to work on Jackson before I would believe a FIRE CHIEF. The MEDICS are the ones who had to work on Jackson's body. The FIRE CHIEF had to guard the gate. I think both the MEDICS and the FIRE CHIEF were at the scene. PS, so were fans, but I would not take their word for anything either. Now if we were talking about putting out fire, then I would believe the chief before the medics.

And I think the underlined portion of your post is insulting to the poster.

[Firehead11]

I don't profess any medical knowledge, but earlier it was posted that MJ was dead for five hours before the 911 call. That would mean he had been dead for six hours before he arrived at UCLA.

I have posted links to forensic sites which explain the changes that take place within three hours of death and I do not believe that the excellent doctors at UCLA couldn't recognize a six-hour-dead corpse.

And what happes IF these doctors at the ER come out and say that they knew Jackson was dead but did indeed work on his body?

None of us can say exactly when Jackson died. But like others, I do believe he was dead before his body left that house. And I think he was dead longer than a few minutes.

I have posted many times, that my friends husband was worked on for an hour after he arrived at the hospital and he was dead before he was put into the ambulance.

[retiredcop]

I think I would believe the MEDICS that had to work on Jackson before I would believe a FIRE CHIEF. The MEDICS are the ones who had to work on Jackson's body. The FIRE CHIEF had to guard the gate. I think both the MEDICS and the FIRE CHIEF were at the scene. PS, so were fans, but I would not take their word for anything either. Now if we were talking about putting out fire, then I would believe the chief before the medics.

And I think the underlined portion of your post is insulting to the poster.

What is his time of death on the death certificate? Have you seen the EMTs report? What makes you think the time of death is in question by the coroner?

[sallemae]

The exact same thing EVERY pedophile steals from their prey. imo

Or do you think the molestation of as child is "no big deal" because he was paid off? Or do you think it's never a big deal?


I have no idea what a pedophile steals from their prey? I asked for the facts, What I've heard and is not known to be a fact is that he touched him or fondled him.

This isn't about the molestation of children, being a big deal or not, that isn't an issue, it's a terrible crime.

I want to know what you know as fact that he lost his virginity? and what that means.

So he lost his virginity of being fondled? Is that what you are saying?

[retiredcop]

A chance to revive him.....the word revive tells you he was dead! imo

When someone's heart and respirations stop, they are dead. The difference is there is a chance to revive some patients so they try to revive them. Are you saying they shouldn't have tried to bring Michael Jackson back? What exactly are you saying anyway?

in my opinion

[flipflop]

The Jackson Kids' Education -- Home Works

Posted Sep 9th 2009 1:45AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson's kids won't be attending a swanky school in Los Angeles after all -- the family has decided to keep them enrolled at the one learning facility they are very familiar with ... home.

Michael Jackson's Kids

A source extremely close to the situation tells us the decision was made not to enroll Michael Jr., Paris, and Prince at the Buckley School -- where Tito's three kids attended -- so they could continue being home schooled by the same tutors they had under Michael's supervision.

The only difference -- their home is now the Jackson's place in Encino, not Michael's place in Holmby Hills.

We're told the Jackson family is pulling out all the stops to recreate a "normal" school environment -- they're even building a school yard, complete with a volleyball court, so the kids can enjoy P.E. time. The kids will also go on field trips and have a designated "lunch hour" in between classes.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0QcJ8wf2K

[Firehead11]

What is his time of death on the death certificate? Have you seen the EMTs report? What makes you think the time of death is in question by the coroner?


Have you seen the death certificate? NO! And I am not implying that I have. You know full well that the medics report has not been printed but I will give you a link, that I have read, which you will NOT believe because it is a "source". I will believe that "source" more than I will believe the doctor who contributed to Jackson's death.

http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2009/06/27/medics-say-michael-jackson-dead-on-scene/

When EMTs arrived at Michael Jackson’s home yesterday, the medics wanted to pronounce him dead on the scene — but Michael’s personal doctor refused to let them “call it” — this according to sources close to the situation.

When EMTs arrived there was evidence someone had been performing CPR on Michael for “quite some time.” There was evidence of Lidocaine — an old-school drug that can be used to treat disturbances in the heart’s rhythm. Medics took over performing CPR but determined Jackson was lifeless — and wanted to call the coroner to pick up the body.



Oh and the coroner has stated that he finds Jackson's death to be a homicide. Do you believe him?

I don't believe that a FIRE CHIEF can determine what was going on or not with Jacksons life/death. Did that fire chief rule Jackson's death to be a homicide? And yes, I am being sarcastic.

[retiredcop]

[quote"The LAFD received a 911 call for a 50 year old male who was not breathing and unresponsive. Engine 71 and paramedic rescue ambulance 71 responded and was on scene within a few minutes," Marc Eckstein, MD, MPH, FACEP, Medical Director of the Los Angeles Fire Department, told JEMS.com. "They found Mr. Jackson in full cardiac arrest with CPR in progress."

"LAFD members immediately took over CPR and intiated both basic and advanced life support interventions," Eckstein continued. "They aggressively attempted resuscitation on scene for approximately 30 minutes, and after consultation with on-line medical control at the UCLA base station, they continued resuscitative efforts during the short transport to the UCLA emergency department. There was no change in the patient's status during his prehospital course."quote]

One would conclude that MJ was dead on arrival at the hospital as they were obviously unsuccessful in restoring his vital signs. He was dead even though they tried in the ER to save him. He was without a heartbeat and was not breathing far to long to restore his life.

You can believe that because of who he was that they went the extra futile mile to try to revive him. And I believe that it was for the sake of the family which is done more often than some here would believe.

http://www.firefighternation.com/forum/topics/michael-jackson-ems-response

So? He was in full cardiac arrest. They tried to revive him. What does this link say that hasn't already been determined. Michael Jackson had just died. He was not dead for hours. They tried to revive him just like they do thousands of people everyday.

They continued to try to revive him in the ER. I am saying he was not dead for hours. I'm saying he had just died.

As far as the family goes, they did not arrive at the hospital until after ER doctors called it.

Still the EMTs report has not been released nor has the autopsy report. What are you trying to prove anyway?

in my opinion

[flipflop]

Katherine Jackson Camp Going To Court Wednesday; Wants Say In Michael's EstateKatherine Jackson Camp Going To Court Wednesday; Wants Say In Michael's Estate

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 @ 06:39AM


The battle over Michael Jackson's estate continues in Los Angeles Wednesday afternoon, as a judge will determine whether the late entertainer's mother, Katherine, can formally contest the named executors in her son's will -- without compromising her 40 percent stake as a beneficiary.

A no-contest clause in the Thriller singer's prohibits Katherine from opposing the executors, John Branca and John McClain, who presiding Judge Mitchell Beckloff had previously appointed as the estate's temporary administrators. Londell McMillan, Katherine's attorney, said that the King of Pop's mother "deserves a seat at the table" to have a say in decisions involving the estate, despite Michael having not named her -- or any of the Jacksons -- as executors

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/katherine-jackson-camp-going-court-wednesday-wants-say-michaels-estate

[retiredcop]

Have you seen the death certificate? NO! And I am not implying that I have. You know full well that the medics report has not been printed but I will give you a link, that I have read, which you will NOT believe because it is a "source". I will believe that "source" more than I will believe the doctor who contributed to Jackson's death.

http://blogs.babble.com/famecrawler/2009/06/27/medics-say-michael-jackson-dead-on-scene/

When EMTs arrived at Michael Jackson’s home yesterday, the medics wanted to pronounce him dead on the scene — but Michael’s personal doctor refused to let them “call it” — this according to sources close to the situation.

When EMTs arrived there was evidence someone had been performing CPR on Michael for “quite some time.” There was evidence of Lidocaine — an old-school drug that can be used to treat disturbances in the heart’s rhythm. Medics took over performing CPR but determined Jackson was lifeless — and wanted to call the coroner to pick up the body.



Oh and the coroner has stated that he finds Jackson's death to be a homicide. Do you believe him?

I don't believe that a FIRE CHIEF can determine what was going on or not with Jacksons life/death. Did that fire chief rule Jackson's death to be a homicide? And yes, I am being sarcastic.

Well, look at the death certificate. It is available to look at. That is the official time of death.

I won't argue this anymore. We went over all this for pages and pages on several threads. I guess you missed all that.

The autopsy report is the only report that matters and it's not out yet.

Carry on.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Katherine Jackson Camp Going To Court Wednesday; Wants Say In Michael's EstateKatherine Jackson Camp Going To Court Wednesday; Wants Say In Michael's Estate

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 @ 06:39AM


The battle over Michael Jackson's estate continues in Los Angeles Wednesday afternoon, as a judge will determine whether the late entertainer's mother, Katherine, can formally contest the named executors in her son's will -- without compromising her 40 percent stake as a beneficiary.

A no-contest clause in the Thriller singer's prohibits Katherine from opposing the executors, John Branca and John McClain, who presiding Judge Mitchell Beckloff had previously appointed as the estate's temporary administrators. Londell McMillan, Katherine's attorney, said that the King of Pop's mother "deserves a seat at the table" to have a say in decisions involving the estate, despite Michael having not named her -- or any of the Jacksons -- as executors

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/katherine-jackson-camp-going-court-wednesday-wants-say-michaels-estate

I wonder if the judge will finally make a decision. I would think it is way past time to make the executors permanent. I think the will spells out that no family is to be involved in the estate. KJ has gotten plenty out of the estate already. The cost of the funeral was paid by the estate. Not to mention she is being given money for herself and the children.

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

Well, look at the death certificate. It is available to look at. That is the official time of death.

I won't argue this anymore. We went over all this for pages and pages on several threads. I guess you missed all that.

The autopsy report is the only report that matters and it's not out yet.

Carry on.

in my opinion

Autopsy report has not been released.

Death Certificate only states time when Jackson was pronounced dead.

I didn't miss all that.

I do not need your permission to carry on.

Need the directions to find the iggy button?

[Firehead11]

Katherine Jackson Camp Going To Court Wednesday; Wants Say In Michael's EstateKatherine Jackson Camp Going To Court Wednesday; Wants Say In Michael's Estate

Posted on Sep 09, 2009 @ 06:39AM


The battle over Michael Jackson's estate continues in Los Angeles Wednesday afternoon, as a judge will determine whether the late entertainer's mother, Katherine, can formally contest the named executors in her son's will -- without compromising her 40 percent stake as a beneficiary.

A no-contest clause in the Thriller singer's prohibits Katherine from opposing the executors, John Branca and John McClain, who presiding Judge Mitchell Beckloff had previously appointed as the estate's temporary administrators. Londell McMillan, Katherine's attorney, said that the King of Pop's mother "deserves a seat at the table" to have a say in decisions involving the estate, despite Michael having not named her -- or any of the Jacksons -- as executors

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/katherine-jackson-camp-going-court-wednesday-wants-say-michaels-estate

I really wish she would stop this stuff. She does not "deserve" a seat at the table either. Just because one gives birth to a child, does not make them automatically entitled to a darn thing.

[retiredcop]

Michael Jackson should have cut his entire family out of the will including his mother.

He should have made his children and the charities his only beneficiaries. The only money his mother should get is for the care of the children.

KJ is no different than Joe.:thumbdown:

in my opinion

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I truly think that MJ was dead before the paramedics got there. I don't know exactly why the ER at UCLA would work on him for so long, but, I do think he was long dead. :shrug:

Cindylee, After working in ER's for many many years, and experienced the arrival of many patients who were in the process of "Reuscitative" processes, the only time an immediate "Pronoucing" takes place when the patient is obviously DEAD..such as trauma's that are obvious not conducive to living, missing a vital part of their body, etc....For example we had a victim of a motorvehicle accident, ( motorcyclist) brought in intact,helmet still on..layed him on table, looked into face opening of helmet, where we could only see the BACK OF HIS HEAD..humm..I think we called that one, why???His head had been disarticulated from his spine...

Mr. Motorcycle was pronouced on arrival...Time of Death seemed obvious that it was truly at the time his head became disconnected to his body..2 different times... Broken Neck at Accident and actual pronouncing that death..

I think my point is "Calling" or Pronouncing Time of Death" in ER's anyway, is only a medical legal "Certification" that some one is deceased...The actual time of death, and cause of death has to be left to the Coroner..not the ER physician..

LMS

[retiredcop]

I believe that's when they pronounced him DEAD, we don't know when he actually died. imo

We certainly do know when he actually died. It was at 2:26 pm. Please tell me what makes you think the coroner is questioning his time of death. That questioning is only on blogs and message boards. It is all speculation and rumors. What difference does it make to the homicide ruling anyway? Can you tell me that???

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

We certainly do know when he actually died. It was at 2:26 pm. Please tell me what makes you think the coroner is questioning his time of death. That questioning is only on blogs and message boards. It is all speculation and rumors. What difference does it make to the homicide ruling anyway? Can you tell me that???

in my opinion


No, we do not know the time of death of Michael Jackson. We know what time he was pronounced dead.

I thought you weren't going to argue this point any longer.

[Firehead11]

Evidently MJ didn't agree with your opinion, and went ahead and did what he felt best, despite your feelings.


I can see him agreeing to give his mother a percentage of the interest of the trust fund but geesh, she should drop this fight. Let all that live there get a damn job and support themselves and the children that they have made.

[retiredcop]

Cindylee, After working in ER's for many many years, and experienced the arrival of many patients who were in the process of "Reuscitative" processes, the only time an immediate "Pronoucing" takes place when the patient is obviously DEAD..such as trauma's that are obvious not conducive to living, missing a vital part of their body, etc....For example we had a victim of a motorvehicle accident, ( motorcyclist) brought in intact,helmet still on..layed him on table, looked into face opening of helmet, where we could only see the BACK OF HIS HEAD..humm..I think we called that one, why???His head had been disarticulated from his spine...

Mr. Motorcycle was pronouced on arrival...Time of Death seemed obvious that it was truly at the time his head became disconnected to his body..2 different times... Broken Neck at Accident and actual pronouncing that death..

I think my point is "Calling" or Pronouncing Time of Death" in ER's anyway, is only a medical legal "Certification" that some one is deceased...The actual time of death, and cause of death has to be left to the Coroner..not the ER physician..

LMS

Having many years experience in my profession as well, I can tell you I have also been a witness in emergency rooms and trauma rooms so I am not ignorant to what goes on there. I know that your example should have gone to a hospital with a level I trauma rating and not simply an emergency room. Michael Jackson would not have gone to a level I. He went to an emergency room. There is a big difference in your example as to why that injury would be ruled on as time of death. He would have been killed in the accident.

Michael Jackson died in the emergency room when it was obvious reviving him was not going to happen. He had no trauma.

I don't see anything about time of death from the coroner.

As of right now his time of death is 2:26 pm. There is no getting around that.

The autopsy report is not available to see if the coroner changed that time of death or not.



in my opinion

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I can see him agreeing to give his mother a percentage of the interest of the trust fund but geesh, she should drop this fight. Let all that live there get a damn job and support themselves and the children that they have made.

Is it true or not true that MJ had been assisting and supporting his mother for many years???..Given that..if true, I can see why he wished to continue in that vein following his death. I also believe he understood very well, that the "Family" as a whole would try to take over his estate, and put at risk the estate's worth ..thus threaten the care and maintenance of his children..Thus he and his lawyers felt compelled to put a clause in there to protect it from challenges to his wishes in his will. Good for him..very wise move!

LMS

[retiredcop]

You may have to wait until trial, then it will become obvious when MJ died.

What trial?? Was an arrest made? :confused:

The autopsy report may never be available to the public.

in my opinion

[Eagleeye]

So? He was in full cardiac arrest. They tried to revive him. What does this link say that hasn't already been determined. Michael Jackson had just died. He was not dead for hours. They tried to revive him just like they do thousands of people everyday.

They continued to try to revive him in the ER. I am saying he was not dead for hours. I'm saying he had just died.

As far as the family goes, they did not arrive at the hospital until after ER doctors called it.

Still the EMTs report has not been released nor has the autopsy report. What are you trying to prove anyway?

in my opinion

Simply put that you don't have one single clue as to what you are talking about and you argue just for the sake of arguing. Since you refuse to listen to medical professionals here and you know it all, there is no longer a reason for me to respond to your inane argumentative posts.

[Eagleeye]

The TOD on the death certificate was symbolic since Dr. Murray refused to call it when the EMT's wanted to and Dr. Murray didn't want his name on the DC to call the TOD. No one actually knows what the TOD was because Dr. Murray obfuscated and the truth may never be known. That being said. Michael Jackson was dead long before 2:26 PM. Since some here refuse to accept what has been posted with links provided, the only thing I can say is you can lead a horse to water but you can't make her/him read. Oops I meant drink.

[Cindylee]

I really wish she would stop this stuff. She does not "deserve" a seat at the table either. Just because one gives birth to a child, does not make them automatically entitled to a darn thing.

I agree with you. I don't think she or the other Jackson's have done a bang up job with their own finances. She would be much better off to just leave the executors alone and let them handle it. They seem to know what they are doing.

[Cindylee]

The Jackson Kids' Education -- Home Works

Posted Sep 9th 2009 1:45AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson's kids won't be attending a swanky school in Los Angeles after all -- the family has decided to keep them enrolled at the one learning facility they are very familiar with ... home.

Michael Jackson's Kids

A source extremely close to the situation tells us the decision was made not to enroll Michael Jr., Paris, and Prince at the Buckley School -- where Tito's three kids attended -- so they could continue being home schooled by the same tutors they had under Michael's supervision.

The only difference -- their home is now the Jackson's place in Encino, not Michael's place in Holmby Hills.

We're told the Jackson family is pulling out all the stops to recreate a "normal" school environment -- they're even building a school yard, complete with a volleyball court, so the kids can enjoy P.E. time. The kids will also go on field trips and have a designated "lunch hour" in between classes.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0QcJ8wf2K

I was hoping the kids would be going to school with their cousins. Building a "normal" school environment is sure not the same as going to school.

[Firehead11]

Is it true or not true that MJ had been assisting and supporting his mother for many years???..Given that..if true, I can see why he wished to continue in that vein following his death. I also believe he understood very well, that the "Family" as a whole would try to take over his estate, and put at risk the estate's worth ..thus threaten the care and maintenance of his children..Thus he and his lawyers felt compelled to put a clause in there to protect it from challenges to his wishes in his will. Good for him..very wise move!

LMS


I agree totally with your post.

[Firehead11]

Makes one wonder why he refused to testify at a trial and took the money instead.

It made me wonder why he didn't testify at the trial. Hell he already had the twenty millon, he could have helped put his molester in a cell for a long, long time.

Oh and at 12 and 13 years of age, they know what french kissing is and a whole lot more. The entire story he swore to doesn't ring true.

And by the way, I do not see any notary signature on there. Who swore the kid in?

[Debb]

I was hoping the kids would be going to school with their cousins. Building a "normal" school environment is sure not the same as going to school.


You are right. I had originally heard that the kids would be going to a regular school. (Not sure if it was public or private, but their cousins attend there.)

Being isolated from other students seems cruel to me. I hope they obtained the advice from professionals. I think some people don't have the incentive, time, or desire to see to it that children get up in the morning and get to school on time. Then you have homework, the school activities, PTA, band, sports, cheerleading, etc. It's a lot of work, especially for 3 kids in different schools. I can see how Mrs. Jackson may not have been up to it. It's probably easier to have the homeschool teachers come to them.

[Cindylee]

You are right. I had originally heard that the kids would be going to a regular school. (Not sure if it was public or private, but their cousins attend there.)

Being isolated from other students seems cruel to me. I hope they obtained the advice from professionals. I think some people don't have the incentive, time, or desire to see to it that children get up in the morning and get to school on time. Then you have homework, the school activities, PTA, band, sports, cheerleading, etc. It's a lot of work, especially for 3 kids in different schools. I can see how Mrs. Jackson may not have been up to it. It's probably easier to have the homeschool teachers come to them.

It is a very exclusive private school that they were going to go to. I wonder if maybe there wasn't enough time....or maybe the kids didn't want to go. I of course don't know, but I think it would be good to get those kids out of their bubble. Get into the real world.

[warhorse46]

The murder trial. We will let you know when the arrest(s) are made.


If any arrests are made & a trial takes place the most that will be charged is manslaughter not murder.

[Eagleeye]

It is a very exclusive private school that they were going to go to. I wonder if maybe there wasn't enough time....or maybe the kids didn't want to go. I of course don't know, but I think it would be good to get those kids out of their bubble. Get into the real world.

Cin,
Or maybe they weren't academically qualified to get into that school. God only knows what their level of education is. I would think that this School has standards no matter who you are. And maybe just maybe the School didn't want the Paparazzi hanging around all day. Certainly not fair to the other students that go there.

[MK~ULTRA]

How could they do that and still make money off of them? :rolleyes:


Regurgitation? :shrug:

[retiredcop]

Simply put that you don't have one single clue as to what you are talking about and you argue just for the sake of arguing. Since you refuse to listen to medical professionals here and you know it all, there is no longer a reason for me to respond to your inane argumentative posts.

OK, good. Don't respond. Who cares? You are the one who dosen't have a single clue as to what YOU are talking about. The links you put up doesn't usually help your point either. I've noticed that when someone doesn't agree with you, you always flounce off saying there is no reason to respond to that poster anymore. I'm not the first by far and won't be the last.:biggrin:

in my opinion

[MK~ULTRA]

I say the crime rises to the level of Murder II.

You get the D.A. to agree with you and you just might have a case.

Or not.

[Imperfect4]

Home school for the kids.....I was hoping they would get to go to school. I think it is sad.


The Jackson Kids' Education -- Home Works

Posted Sep 9th 2009 1:45AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson's kids won't be attending a swanky school in Los Angeles after all -- the family has decided to keep them enrolled at the one learning facility they are very familiar with ... home.

Michael Jackson's Kids

A source extremely close to the situation tells us the decision was made not to enroll Michael Jr., Paris, and Prince at the Buckley School -- where Tito's three kids attended -- so they could continue being home schooled by the same tutors they had under Michael's supervision.

The only difference -- their home is now the Jackson's place in Encino, not Michael's place in Holmby Hills.

<snipped to address>


I actually think this is a good idea, at least for now. I imagine the Jacksons are trying to shelter MJ's kids from a lot of what is being written and said about him, as they should.

I also imagine those kids' lives were so far from *normal* that it would be hard for them to acclimate to a relatively normal school life so soon after MJ's death and their new existence with KJ and the rest.

[MK~ULTRA]

What exactly did MJ steal from him?

snipped

His innocence. His trust.

Hopefully, the money Michael Jackson paid him to shut up about it was enough for him to get enough counseling to gain back some semblance of trust. Unfortunately, money can't buy his innocence back.

[retiredcop]

By all accounts they are extremely bright, intelligent children. Possibly they just aren't ready to be thrust into the public eye, and would prefer to wait a while.

Accounts from who? Hope they are not raised in a cocoon like their father. We all know how that turned out.:scared:

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Nor can money absolve the boy of guilt.

Hopefully the counseling he received assured him the molestation wasn't his fault.

in my opinion

[♫Rock*Star♫]

Nor can money absolve the boy of guilt.

As much as Michael Jackson thought it would, the money didn't absolve Michael Jackson of guilt.

imo... of course.

[MK~ULTRA]

As much as Michael Jackson thought it would, the money didn't absolve Michael Jackson of guilt.

imo... of course.

Agreed. :thumbup:

[Cindylee]

Cin,
Or maybe they weren't academically qualified to get into that school. God only knows what their level of education is. I would think that this School has standards no matter who you are. And maybe just maybe the School didn't want the Paparazzi hanging around all day. Certainly not fair to the other students that go there.

Yes, those are all possibilities.

[retiredcop]

As much as Michael Jackson thought it would, the money didn't absolve Michael Jackson of guilt.

imo... of course.

Did Michael Jackson even know how to feel guilt? He was probably used to throwing money at parents for the use of their boys.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

That he was the most successful entertainer in music history, holds the guinness record for charity out of all other pop stars, before he was murdered.

Here we go again.:laugh:

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

That he was the most successful entertainer in music history, holds the guinness record for charity out of all other pop stars, before he was murdered.

That he was so unhappy with his "look" that he drastically change his face. That he was so unhappy with his life that he searched for Dr.'s that would give him drugs. I wouldn't wish that unhappiness on anyone, let alone his children.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

Did Michael Jackson even know how to feel guilt? He was probably used to throwing money at parents for the use of their boys.

in my opinion

Since 1981.

According to his sister, Latoya.

[Imperfect4]

#1 There were death threats against the boy. LE would not provide protective custody. If I were his father, my priority would be MY CHILD's life and well being.

#2 Are you implying a 12 or 13 year old can't be manipulated and molested? Or are you somehow blaming 12 & 13 year old victims?

#3 Then you know absolutely nothing about the way child molesters operate. I would suggest you educate yourself...I've tried to educate you and others by posting links........apparently you're not interested.

As I've said, I really have no opinion on whether MJ did or didn't do what he was accused of. (And I'm not looking to form one at this late date.)

However, I think it's horrific there are people willing to badmouth the adolescent boys wrapped up in this. If their parents are to blame, blame the damn parents. But to badmouth a young kid who may or may not have been molested (a fact, imo, which we will never know with absolute certainty, despite the acquittal, as guilty people are acquitted routinely), while wailing about the innocence of the adult male in question in the very same breath, is unconscionable. imo

Whatever the situation, the young boys who were under the influence of both their parents and MJ deserve kinder, gentler treatment than they receive here, that's for damn sure. :mad:

[Imperfect4]

In my professional experience...you would be STUNNED the number of parents that deny and defend their own child's sexual abuser. It's more common than you can even imagine.

This message board is a reflection of that.

It's even common among law enforcement, some just can't comprehend how a 12, 13 year old can be manipulated, care for their abuser, or be repeatedly molested, and actually enjoy it. It happens, the victim is BLAMELESS. Period. When GentleBreeze repeatedly asked how old the boy was and implied he was too old to be a victim, I almost lost my mind. I wasn't surprised, I've seen it at least 100 times, by PARENTS of VICTIMS...it still sends me off the deep end.

Some people are just so disgusted by it, and it's such a difficult topic it's easier for them to deny it happened at all. After all, it must be much more pleasant for the poster when they refuse to even give it serious educated consideration.

Every time this scenario happens with a victim of molestation, he or she is re-victimized.

It's no wonder victims are so reluctant to come forward. They've already been permanently damaged by their abuser. Why in God's name would they willingly open themselves up to further abuse by the system, strangers, and even their own loved ones? Disgraceful.

[warhorse46]

I say the crime rises to the level of Murder II.



Where is the malice?

[retiredcop]

Have you even read Jordan Chandlers sworn declaration?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/mjdec1.html

I just refreshed my memory by reading this again. It is as devastating as the first time I read it.

Michael Jackson would have been convicted on this one.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I read somewhere that when the maids son was testifying... a few jurors actually rolled their eyes and later were overheard mimicking him and laughing..."ohhh MJ was tickling me"

The man was a grown adult that had underwent 5 years of therapy and still cried on the stand recounting it...and ignorant & uneducated jurors laughed?

The whole thing sickens me.

IMO It's a slap in the face to ALL victims of child sexual assault.

I still don't know why a mistrial wasn't declared regarding the jury's actions.

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

As I've said, I really have no opinion on whether MJ did or didn't do what he was accused of. (And I'm not looking to form one at this late date.)

However, I think it's horrific there are people willing to badmouth the adolescent boys wrapped up in this. If their parents are to blame, blame the damn parents. But to badmouth a young kid who may or may not have been molested (a fact, imo, which we will never know with absolute certainty, despite the acquittal, as guilty people are acquitted routinely), while wailing about the innocence of the adult male in question in the very same breath, is unconscionable. imo

Whatever the situation, the young boys who were under the influence of both their parents and MJ deserve kinder, gentler treatment than they receive here, that's for damn sure. :mad:

I totally agree. Great post.

[Eagleeye]

That he was the most successful entertainer in music history, holds the guinness record for charity out of all other pop stars, before he was murdered.


At this time, I cannot find on the Guinness site that my bold by you is true. You have posted this numerous times. As far as I can see there is no category for that distinction. He has numerous records listed with them but yours so far is not one of them. However, I will reserve the rest of my comment when I hear back from Guinness as I have contacted them to see if what you say is in fact true.

http://community.guinnessworldrecords.com/_Michael-Jackson-dies-at-50/blog/407707/7691.html

[Firehead11]

#1 There were death threats against the boy. LE would not provide protective custody. If I were his father, my priority would be MY CHILD's life and well being.

#2 Are you implying a 12 or 13 year old can't be manipulated and molested? Or are you somehow blaming 12 & 13 year old victims?

#3 Then you know absolutely nothing about the way child molesters operate. I would suggest you educate yourself...I've tried to educate you and others by posting links........apparently you're not interested.

I am reporting this post for it's rudeness and for the implication that I somehow am blaming a child for being molested.

I think I know far more about molestion than you would ever care to know. You are on iggy.

[Cindylee]

Implied malice. Where is the implied malice?

[Firehead11]

Since 1981.

According to his sister, Latoya.

And now LaToya is going to be believed. :rolleyes:

[retiredcop]

And now LaToya is going to be believed. :rolleyes:

I believe LaToya 100%.

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

I totally agree. Great post.

At one time, we were not allowed to post the kids name. I think with JC, his father used him. But I do think he lied. Sorry but that is my opinion.
I really didn't want to discuss this at all but people just keep bringing it up.

[retiredcop]

-------------------
U said it right.............IGNORANT AND UNEDUCATED JURORS. imo

And very biased. Should have been a mistrial after they were caught discussing the case and a witness.:rolleyes:

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Oh good Lord, now we know you have gone over the edge.
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Thud

Not hardly. She is the only one who told the truth and had to recant because of the family. KJ and the rest of the family have always known what Michael Jackson was.

in my opinion

[Shameonme]

At this time, I cannot find on the Guinness site that my bold by you is true. You have posted this numerous times. As far as I can see there is no category for that distinction. He has numerous records listed with them but yours so far is not one of them. However, I will reserve the rest of my comment when I hear back from Guinness as I have contacted them to see if what you say is in fact true.

http://community.guinnessworldrecords.com/_Michael-Jackson-dies-at-50/blog/407707/7691.html

I also looked for "pop stars" record for charities and found nothing. Please let us know what you hear back. I highly doubt that's even a category.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Implied malice.

I am trying to find some examples in your law that explains why malice could be implied in this case..and it goes to the facts as we know them to be at this point..
1) Dr. Murray, Licensed Physician, treating MJ and on scene and actually administered the Medication Cocktail that killed him..
2) The act of administering such a cocktail was either known or should have been known to be capable to being lethal
3) Said physician continued to administered such dangerous drugs without proper equipment needed to treat the complications of said treatment
4) The delaying of getting help, in a timelly manner..simple really..dial 911 on any phone
5) Said physician not giving full cooperation and information regarding the patient in his care..i.e not mentioning Diprivan
6) CPR technique sadly lacking for someone who should know the proper procedures..

In any statutory definition of a crime, malice must be taken ... as requiring either:
(1) an actual intention to do the particular kind of harm that in fact was done; or
(2) recklessness as to whether such harm should occur or not (i.e. the accused has foreseen that the particular kind of harm might be done and yet has gone on to take the risk of it).

Lord Diplock confirmed the relationship to recklessness in R v Mowatt (1968) 1 QB 421:

In the offence under section 20 of the Offences against the Person Act 1861, the word "maliciously" does import upon the part of the person who unlawfully inflicts the wound or other grievous bodily harm an awareness that his act may have the consequence of causing some physical harm to some other person … It is quite unnecessary that the accused should have foreseen that his unlawful act might cause physical harm of the gravity described in the section, i.e. a wound or serious physical injury. It is enough that he should have foreseen that some physical harm to some person, albeit of a minor character, might result

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malice_%28legal_term%29

LMS

[retiredcop]

I don't believe he would ever have been convicted. Just read the board, it only takes one ignorant flake to get a mistrial. The only way MJ would have been convicted is if he molested the boy on center stage...and there would still be many that would swear they didn't see it and many more to make excuses as to what he was really doing. IMO

Sadly you're right. He probably would never have been convicted for molesting any boy.

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

Implied malice has nothing to do with hatred or ill will towards the victim. It is similar to what many call “reckless disregard for human life.” In California a defendant acts with implied malice if he intentionally commits a potentially fatal act with conscious disregard for human life.


Murray intentionally administered a deadly drug, without proper equipment or training, deviating from the standard of care, and with gross recklessness, he committed a fatal act with conscious desregard for human life.

Oh, I know what it means, I just don't see it in this case. Manslaughter, yes, not murder 2.

[retiredcop]

Do you have a link that says the Santa Maria jurors were uneducated?

TIA

GMAB she wrote it was her opinion. Unlike you who never writes your statements are your opinion and never furnishes a link when asked. :rolleyes:

in my opinion

[Imperfect4]

Do you have a link that says the Santa Maria jurors were uneducated?

TIA

Still waiting for links from you for the 5 hours dead rumor you posted yesterday, as well as your Guinness World Book of Records rumor from this morning.

[Imperfect4]

I told you yesterday, I wouldn't be posting a link. And for the Guinnes thing, I have posted the link numerous times, and was called a spammer because of it. Therefore you will have to find it yourself.

Then why are you requesting links from other posters?

[tiptop]

Still waiting for links from you for the 5 hours dead rumor you posted yesterday, as well as your Guinness World Book of Records rumor from this morning.

I'm still wondering about Nic's post #213, first para:

Implied malice has nothing to do with hatred or ill will towards the victim. It is similar to what many call “reckless disregard for human life.” In California a defendant acts with implied malice if he intentionally commits a potentially fatal act with conscious disregard for human life.

Which is eerily similar to this para from Patterico's Pontifications:

Implied malice has nothing to do with hatred or ill will towards the victim. It is similar to what many call “reckless disregard for human life.” In California (and I’m collapsing, paraphrasing, and simplifying the elements for clarity’s sake) a defendant acts with implied malice if he intentionally commits a potentially fatal act with conscious disregard for human life.

http://patterico.com/2007/05/02/fracture-murder-implied-malice-and-the-la-riots/

[Firehead11]

And your problem with post 213? I don't understand....

[tiptop]

And your problem with post 213? I don't understand....


No link was referenced.

[Firehead11]

No link was referenced.


oh......


:confused:

[Imperfect4]

Why do you continue to harass me? Just because you can.

How is responding to your post harassing you? If your definition of harassment is me asking you for links, then I guess you just harassed another poster to whom you directed the same question.

It would be helpful to the discussion if you didn't trot out the poor-pitiful-me thing every time you trip yourself up.

[tiptop]

oh......


:confused:

It's not nice to claim other people's words as your own. Without a link, it was implied those were Nic's words.

[Imperfect4]

I'm still wondering about Nic's post #213, first para:

Implied malice has nothing to do with hatred or ill will towards the victim. It is similar to what many call “reckless disregard for human life.” In California a defendant acts with implied malice if he intentionally commits a potentially fatal act with conscious disregard for human life.

Which is eerily similar to this para from Patterico's Pontifications:

Implied malice has nothing to do with hatred or ill will towards the victim. It is similar to what many call “reckless disregard for human life.” In California (and I’m collapsing, paraphrasing, and simplifying the elements for clarity’s sake) a defendant acts with implied malice if he intentionally commits a potentially fatal act with conscious disregard for human life.

http://patterico.com/2007/05/02/fracture-murder-implied-malice-and-the-la-riots/

Oh, my. Tell me she did not quote, verbatim, without attributing the quote? :sneaky:

[Firehead11]

It's not nice to claim other people's words as your own. Without a link, it was implied those were Nic's words.


I didn't take it as her claiming those words are hers but rather she was answering a question.

I guess I will be careful in the future.

[Imperfect4]

Nope, not verbatim.

Sure you did, minus what's in parentheses. Would you prefer "plagiarize?" Naughty, naughty. Doesn't reflect well on your credibility, I'm afraid.

[Imperfect4]

I didn't take it as her claiming those words are hers but rather she was answering a question.

<snipped to address>

Are you kidding? :laugh:

[retiredcop]

Sure you did, minus what's in parentheses. Would you prefer "plagiarize?" Naughty, naughty. Doesn't reflect well on your credibility, I'm afraid.

:ohmy: Plagiarism indeed. That is naughty.:ohmy:

in my opinion

[MK~ULTRA]

Sure you did, minus what's in parentheses. Would you prefer "plagiarize?" Naughty, naughty. Doesn't reflect well on your credibility, I'm afraid.

What credibility are you speaking of?

[Imperfect4]

What credibility are you speaking of?

Oops. My bad. :laugh:

[Imperfect4]

Its a definintion, and my words applied to that definition. Sorry you are having issues with it.

It's not a dictionary definition, but another private citizen's definition, which you plagiarized. I don't think I'm the one with "issues."

[Firehead11]

Wow, bet this thread gets closed down soon.

[MK~ULTRA]

Wow, bet this thread gets closed down soon.

Will Nic-A-Day's blatant plagiarism get this thread closed down?

[Imperfect4]

Wow, bet this thread gets closed down soon.

Maybe it should.

No new news with regard to the death investigation.

Rumors without links.

Quotes without links.

Not much value, imo.

[Firehead11]

It will be Coldwater's decision.

[Cindylee]

I posted this late last night, and thought I would re post it to get some opinions about this. :wink: What do you all think? Do you think the Jackson family have a case???


Jacksons -- Problems With Wrongful Death Suit

Posted Sep 9th 2009 1:40AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jacksons -- Problems With Wrongful Death SuitVarious members of Michael Jackson's family tell TMZ they are already talking about lawyers who might rep them in a wrongful death lawsuit against Dr. Conrad Murray and others ... but Jackson's death may prove to be such an economic bonanza that it could torpedo a lawsuit.

In California, Jackson's immediate family could sue for the economic loss they have suffered by Jackson's death -- e.g., the financial support Jackson could have provided had he lived. Here's the problem -- Jackson's death may actually be an economic gain.

It's already becoming clear Michael Jackson is more profitable in death than he was in the last years of his life. Therefore, even if lawyers proved Dr. Murray and others were responsible for Jackson's death ... they could still come up with goose eggs.

The family could also recover for non-economic damages such as loss of companionship and love. The problem -- in California, if the lawsuit is based on malpractice against a medical provider, these damages would be limited to $250,000 total.

The final possibility -- if the family could prove the defendants acted with malice, they could get punitive damages. "Malice" includes proof of "despicable conduct." The family could also win punitive damages if the defendant is convicted of felony homicide. But in California, punitive damages have to bear some relationship to damages for economic or non-economic losses. Typically punitives are limited to nine times those damages.

It ain't as easy as it seems.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0QdikX150

[Imperfect4]

It will be Coldwater's decision.

Obviously. :blink:

[MK~ULTRA]

It certainly isn't you.

perhaps the tab just kicked in?

The bowl must be cashed. :shrug:

[RootBeer]

I posted this late last night, and thought I would re post it to get some opinions about this. :wink: What do you all think? Do you think the Jackson family have a case???


Jacksons -- Problems With Wrongful Death Suit

Posted Sep 9th 2009 1:40AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jacksons -- Problems With Wrongful Death SuitVarious members of Michael Jackson's family tell TMZ they are already talking about lawyers who might rep them in a wrongful death lawsuit against Dr. Conrad Murray and others ... but Jackson's death may prove to be such an economic bonanza that it could torpedo a lawsuit.

In California, Jackson's immediate family could sue for the economic loss they have suffered by Jackson's death -- e.g., the financial support Jackson could have provided had he lived. Here's the problem -- Jackson's death may actually be an economic gain.

It's already becoming clear Michael Jackson is more profitable in death than he was in the last years of his life. Therefore, even if lawyers proved Dr. Murray and others were responsible for Jackson's death ... they could still come up with goose eggs.

The family could also recover for non-economic damages such as loss of companionship and love. The problem -- in California, if the lawsuit is based on malpractice against a medical provider, these damages would be limited to $250,000 total.

The final possibility -- if the family could prove the defendants acted with malice, they could get punitive damages. "Malice" includes proof of "despicable conduct." The family could also win punitive damages if the defendant is convicted of felony homicide. But in California, punitive damages have to bear some relationship to damages for economic or non-economic losses. Typically punitives are limited to nine times those damages.

It ain't as easy as it seems.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0QdikX150

I think they may get something for loss of companionship. jmo

[Imperfect4]

I posted this late last night, and thought I would re post it to get some opinions about this. :wink: What do you all think? Do you think the Jackson family have a case???

<snipped just for space>


I saw that, Cindy, and meant to respond.

Appears to be a bit of a sticky wicket, eh?

But I think the Jacksons will be good with it either way. The Benjamins are flowing and will continue to. That's the priority for them, imo.

[MK~ULTRA]

----------------

U would have learned alot. imo

Surely you understand she has only recently begun idolizing Michael Jackson. ;)

[Firehead11]

I posted this late last night, and thought I would re post it to get some opinions about this. :wink: What do you all think? Do you think the Jackson family have a case???


Jacksons -- Problems With Wrongful Death Suit

Posted Sep 9th 2009 1:40AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jacksons -- Problems With Wrongful Death SuitVarious members of Michael Jackson's family tell TMZ they are already talking about lawyers who might rep them in a wrongful death lawsuit against Dr. Conrad Murray and others ... but Jackson's death may prove to be such an economic bonanza that it could torpedo a lawsuit.

In California, Jackson's immediate family could sue for the economic loss they have suffered by Jackson's death -- e.g., the financial support Jackson could have provided had he lived. Here's the problem -- Jackson's death may actually be an economic gain.

It's already becoming clear Michael Jackson is more profitable in death than he was in the last years of his life. Therefore, even if lawyers proved Dr. Murray and others were responsible for Jackson's death ... they could still come up with goose eggs.

The family could also recover for non-economic damages such as loss of companionship and love. The problem -- in California, if the lawsuit is based on malpractice against a medical provider, these damages would be limited to $250,000 total.

The final possibility -- if the family could prove the defendants acted with malice, they could get punitive damages. "Malice" includes proof of "despicable conduct." The family could also win punitive damages if the defendant is convicted of felony homicide. But in California, punitive damages have to bear some relationship to damages for economic or non-economic losses. Typically punitives are limited to nine times those damages.

It ain't as easy as it seems.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0QdikX150

I think that Jackson is STILL supporting them all and the ones that would benefit from a lawsuit are the children of Jackson, and that is as it should be.

I don't know why a mal-practice suit would bring in so little when Goldman was awarded over 32 million.

As far as Jackson making more money now then he did while alive, that may be true but you never can tell how much more he could have made being alive.

[Cindylee]

I think they may get something for loss of companionship. jmo

Wouldn't they have to show that they saw him?

[Cindylee]

I saw that, Cindy, and meant to respond.

Appears to be a bit of a sticky wicket, eh?

But I think the Jacksons will be good with it either way. The Benjamins are flowing and will continue to. That's the priority for them, imo.

I agree.....

[Cindylee]

You would think....lol


Yeah you would think so. LOL

[Imperfect4]

Wouldn't they have to show that they saw him?

That's what I was thinking. I don't think MJ spent alot of time with the rest of his family.

Can they sue for loss of companionship on behalf of the 3 children?

[Cindylee]

That's what I was thinking. I don't think MJ spent alot of time with the rest of his family.

Can they sue for loss of companionship on behalf of the 3 children? I think they can sue on behalf of the kids, but what would that get Kathrine? She wouldn't get the money.

[Imperfect4]

I think they can sue on behalf of the kids, but what would that get Kathrine? She wouldn't get the money.

Ah. Good point. Waste of time.

[RootBeer]

---------------

True.........MJ's kids didnt even know their cousins. He kept them isolated.
I'm sure the jacksons will try any means possible to get more money.
Right now they r seeing dollar signs. imo

I do think they are getting to know their cousins now which is a great thing.

[aproudmom]

ALL THINGS MJ boy that could be alot of things...:tongue:
did not see a link thread so guess links go here with ALL THINGS


http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20287787_20303145,00.html

Janet Jackson to Honor Michael at VMAs

The Video Music Awards will pay homage to Michael Jackson when his sister Janet opens the show at Radio City Music Hall in New York on Sept. 13, MTV announced Tuesday:wub:

[aproudmom]

The finding increases the chances criminal charges will be filed against Murray, who was with Michael when he died.

The Jackson family is happy with the homicide ruling, and "look forward" to justice being served.

A statement released by the family said: "The Jackson family has full confidence in the legal process, and commends the ongoing efforts of the Los Angeles County Coroner, the Los Angeles District Attorney and the Los Angeles Police Department. The family looks forward to the day that justice can be served."

http://thebosh.com/archives/2009/09/michael_jacksons_death_was_homicide.php

[aproudmom]

http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2009/09/09/Janet-Jackson-says-she-cant-watch-TV/UPI-63441252513672/

LOS ANGELES, Sept. 9 (UPI) -- U.S. recording artist
Janet Jackson says she hasn't been able to watch television in the weeks since her brother Michael's sudden death at the age of 50.

"It will drive you crazy," Usmagazine.com quoted Jackson as telling Harper's Bazaar for its October issue. "People can have rhinoceros skin but there's a point when something's going to hurt you. Not everyone is stone, :crying:

Katherine against MJ tribute show:ohmy:

http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2009/09/09/Report-Katherine-against-MJ-tribute-show/UPI-35721252507903/

Katherine Jackson is against the tribute concert being planned in her late son Michael Jackson's honor in Vienna, sources told TMZ.

Michael's brother Jermaine is co-producing the event and intends to sing at the Sept. 26 show.

[aproudmom]

Sony Pictures and Yahoo! have premiered the poster for This Is It, the documentary based on the final days of Michael Jackson as he prepared for a London comeback tour

http://www.newsinfilm.com/?p=23854

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebritynews/news/janet-jackson-opens-up-about-losing-michael-200999

See photos from Michael Jackson's funeral

"My brother is, I mean was..." she stammers when talking about Michael's style. Shifting on the couch and staring at the floor, she adds, "You have to forgive me, because it's really hard to believe he's passed."

Janet Jackson expressed her grief over Michael's death on Twitter.

"I love you, Mike, and I miss you," Janet, 43, wrote Wednesday afternoon.

She signed her Tweet "Dunk," which is Michael's nickname for her.

Janet Jackson to Michael on Twitter: "I Miss You"
Friday – September 04, 2009:crying::sad::crying:

[aproudmom]

Boy I would love to be there..:sad:

http://www.sdentertainer.com/music/michael-jacksons-tribute-concert/

Michael Jackson’s Tribute Concert

His memorial was broadcast live at the Staples Center in Los Angeles where up to a billion people tuned in on July 7, 2009. Now, in a few weeks time Michael Jackson’s tribute will be held in front of the Schonbrunn Palace in Vienna on Sept. 26. Over 65,000 fans are expected to show up to the concert.

Top recording artists such as Madonna Mary J. Blige, Akon and Chris Brown have been added to the list. Sister Sledge, Natalie Cole, Angela Bassett and the German boy band US5 are among the 13 artists confirmed.

[aproudmom]

Jermaine Jackson breaks down at The Tribute press conference ITN NEWS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzQPUH7512E&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnews%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fnews%2Fsea rch%3Fum%3D1%26ned%3Dus%26hl%3Den%26q%3DMichael%2B Jackson%2527s%2Bdoctor%2Bcharged%2Bwith%2Bhomicide %26cf%3Dall%26as%5Fqdr%3Dd%26as%5Fdrrb%3D&feature=player_embedded#t=93

http://www.redorbit.com/news/entertainment/1749407/stars_line_up_for_jackson_tribute_concert/

[aproudmom]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/09/michael-jackson-wrongful-death-family-conrad-murray-lawyers/

It's already becoming clear Michael Jackson is more profitable in death than he was in the last years of his life. Therefore, even if lawyers proved Dr. Murray and others were responsible for Jackson's death ... they could still come up with goose eggs.:thumbdown:

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/09/michael-jackson-wrongful-death-suit-poses-financial-catch-22/
http://www.fashion.ie/aggregator/gossip/202292-michael-jackson-wrongful-death-suit-poses-financial-catch-22

Michael Jackson Wrongful Death Suit Poses Financial Catch-22
Under normal circumstances, Murray would certainly be found responsible and face consequences - or at least tried in court to see if he should be liable.
But in this case, Jackson's death may prove to be such an economic windfall - rather than a detriment to the family - that it could make a lawsuit moot.

[Eagleeye]

-------------------

The tribute concert in Vienna and the This is It concert in London.......
why out of the country? The United States isnt good enough for them? imo

IMO, it's the Jackson's way to get back at America for trying to prosecute or persecute their anointed one.

[Imperfect4]

Is there a reason we're reposting the same links over and over, day after day?

[Lyndawitha"Y]

IMO, it's the Jackson's way to get back at America for trying to prosecute or persecute their anointed one.

You know Eagleeye..I dont thing that the Jackson really care one iotta about "America"...it is really very simple..They need to generate income beyond the money that will coming to Grandma ..as they know now that any Civil Suit will not get past the front door...They "Jacksons" in general simply have to try and generate income however they can...and it really isnt surprising..look at Joe Jacksons comments from the giddyup.."He was a Super Star"..etc....Forgive me..I did not see "Grief" in his face one bit!! sorry folks..I really dont believe JJ (Joe) has a true empathetic bone in his body..but that is really beside the point...

I do believe however there are some family members who are grieving..but some are really far more interested in the "End Game"...in other words $$$$..since they know all the money generated by MJ is not in their pockets..they can do no more than "Capitalize" on his name and whatever goes with that....

Having said all that..I dont really blame them..as that is all they have..they havent thrived in the past many decades..and Grandma was exisiting on "Retirement" benefits..and the suport given by MJ..so to even entertain the Patriarchial (parents) identity as successful makes you wonder...

KJ..better be very careful when trying to challenge the control of the "Executors"...she could find herself out in left field!!

Back to the point...In the Big Picture..I dont for one minute believe they even care about the "Anointed One" and his perceived "Persecution"..IF that was their montra..IT should have been evident in the decades before MJ's death..to my way of thinking anyway!!

LMS

[ABC]

-------------------

The tribute concert in Vienna and the This is It concert in London.......
why out of the country? The United States isnt good enough for them? imo
In my opinion, Jackson was always more popular overseas then in America. I can't imagine going to see these guys give a 'tribute" concert in the States to a brother who refused to perform with them for fifteen years or more. I like Jermaine.

[Imperfect4]

Anyone know what happened to Daniel Green?

It appears she's at camp.

[Imperfect4]

-------------

Camp or permanently banned? I dont see her name in the members list anymore. imo

Can't tell. http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showgroups.php

[RootBeer]

--------------

IF that is true, then they should ALL move out of this country and dont let the door hit them in the butt. How quickly they forget.
and BTW.........i'll bet there isnt a one of them that has served in the military. imo

To be honest, years ago, I thought MJ would never move back to the USA.

[Cindylee]

--------------

Unfortunately, he did. imo

I sure was unfortunate for him.