Caylee Anthony, Part II

[AnniePie]

Perf, I do think the root of all evil in that house is Cindy. That doesn't excuse Casey one little bit, but Casey has probably paid all her life for the misfortune of being born to Cindy.

I think so too, crime. And poor little Caylee paid the ultimate price for being born into that horrific family.

[crimeq]

I think Casey is a lot more clearer about whats ahead then she has behaved in the past hearings. She was a lot more different this last time. Her disposition and her body language was from night to day.
I think she's genuinely scared and is finally taking this serious. Someone must have sat her down, looked her straight in the eyes and said, "Your dead meat" Casey Anthony. Get it! You are up a creek without that paddle! Casey Anthony, you are about to never see daylight again. Get it! Not a game. Casey Anthony, your Momma can't fix it! GET IT!
You killed your daughter and your momma can't fix it.
jmo

Hey Deanna, that "someone" is AndreaL, IMO. :wink:

[crimeq]

It still baffles me that there is not one picture of the Nanny, or that the Nanny was not invited to Caylee's 1st or 2nd Birthday Party or Casey's Birthday dinner's or BBQ's.. Not 1 picture in any of the many pictures Casey had in her's or Caylee's bedroom walls. For a person you have known for 4 years, dontcha think there'd be at least 1 pic? Of all the beaches and amusement park trips, I sure would think 1 pic would be taken... I hope the Prosecution brings this up at trial..

(psssst, she's in ALL those pics -- but she's invisible, remember?)

[crimeq]

Talkin' to myself :sad:

Where'd everybody go?

[marinewife5]

Talkin' to myself :sad:

Where'd everybody go?

i'm reading every word :wink:

i've been searching to see if howard stern had any comment on casey's offer.....something tells me even he is to classy for her

[crimeq]

Good point, crimeq.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I have to agree that Casey had been drugging Caylee for a very long time and she was getting away with it. This is why (perhaps) Caylee had circles under her little eyes. The sleep she was getting was not natural sleep that a child gets.

I think Caylee was always tired because when it was time to stop partying and Casey was done, she would get Caylee up and awake and take her home. This is sick and sad. Caylee's little body was so tired from it all when she was with her mother.

However, I still don't understand the duct tape and sticker part and if that particular night Casey was outraged at her mother and Caylee was not having it. (she was getting older) and Casey got pizzed this particular time because caylee was not cooperating.
To get Caylee to "shut up" she grabbed the duct tape and quickly wrapped it around her mouth and nose area and didn't realize she suffocated her daughter.

One possibility for the duct tape is that after killing Caylee unintentionally, Casey added the tape/sticker to try to make it look like a kidnapping/murder--and she concocted the kidnapping story.

The heart sticker was a mistake, if so. That was some emotional addition of Casey's. A kidnapper wouldn't have done that.

[crimeq]

Good point, crimeq.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I have to agree that Casey had been drugging Caylee for a very long time and she was getting away with it. This is why (perhaps) Caylee had circles under her little eyes. The sleep she was getting was not natural sleep that a child gets.

I think Caylee was always tired because when it was time to stop partying and Casey was done, she would get Caylee up and awake and take her home. This is sick and sad. Caylee's little body was so tired from it all when she was with her mother.

However, I still don't understand the duct tape and sticker part and if that particular night Casey was outraged at her mother and Caylee was not having it. (she was getting older) and Casey got pizzed this particular time because caylee was not cooperating.
To get Caylee to "shut up" she grabbed the duct tape and quickly wrapped it around her mouth and nose area and didn't realize she suffocated her daughter.

Agree, the tired eyes/dark circles could easily be from Caylee not getting normal, good sleep as a result of being drugged and having even that sleep interrupted when it was time for mommy to go home.

The most recently released pics of that sweet baby haunt me--the dark circles, the uncertain eyes.

[AnniePie]

Talkin' to myself :sad:

Where'd everybody go?

I'm still here, crime. Sorry. Just trying to keep up here and working on another painting.

[crimeq]

ITA, crimeq...Totally!

I do believe Casey really thought she'd have a "mistrial" (wrong word) and that Baez was leading her to believe that she'd be going free eventually (and could just scoot right out to the beach to work on her tan).

I think AndreaL told her in no uncertain terms that she might be able to get the death penalty off the table, but that she was most likely looking at LWOP.

I believe Andrea also had a come-to-jesus-meeting with C&G, telling them the same thing.

I believe it's the first dose of reality any of them have had about the seriousness of this case, and that they won't be able to control it or lie their ways out of it.

I'm still waiting for George to break ... and spill what he knows. He is the weak link in the AntFam.

ETA: This is probably the reason for C&G's recent baptism, they are probably turning to jesus as their only hope to save Casey. Not going to work.

[crimeq]

I'm still here, crime. Sorry. Just trying to keep up here and working on another painting.

Actually I need to go, Annie. I couldn't sleep last night so watched a couple of Netflix freebies on my computer, up 'til about 4 a.m. or a little later, so I've been dragging today ;-)

And tomorrow's a Monday-Monday for me. :thumbdown:

See you all later! Niters.

[AnniePie]

Good point, crimeq.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I have to agree that Casey had been drugging Caylee for a very long time and she was getting away with it. This is why (perhaps) Caylee had circles under her little eyes. The sleep she was getting was not natural sleep that a child gets.

I think Caylee was always tired because when it was time to stop partying and Casey was done, she would get Caylee up and awake and take her home. This is sick and sad. Caylee's little body was so tired from it all when she was with her mother.
However, I still don't understand the duct tape and sticker part and if that particular night Casey was outraged at her mother and Caylee was not having it. (she was getting older) and Casey got pizzed this particular time because caylee was not cooperating.
To get Caylee to "shut up" she grabbed the duct tape and quickly wrapped it around her mouth and nose area and didn't realize she suffocated her daughter.

I am so naive, DL. I seem to want to trust everyone way too long, and then I'm always disappointed. I've always just assumed that those dark circles under Caylee's eyes were from an allergy or something to that effect. But now that I've read your post, I (very sadly) believe you're right.

What an horrific life that little darling must have had.

[seeing_eye]

I am of the mind that Casey was drugging Caylee and putting her in the trunk of the car to sleep while she partied.

We know she didn't have a babysitter; we know she partied on nights when C&G didn't have Caylee; so where was Caylee? This wasn't just one night, but many.

She was knocked out in the trunk of the car.

I also think Caylee's death was an unintentional overdose, a dose gone wrong, rather than premeditated murder (I vacillate on this though). However, because she died from an OD of chloroform, most likely, it wasn't an accident Casey thought she could report. So she went into coverup mode and the case became what we have before us today.

I respectfully disagree about the mode of death. IMO that Casey killed Caylee in a fit of rage by putting the duct tape over her mouth and nose. Chloroform may not have been involved in it at all at that point.

[crimeq]

I respectfully disagree about the mode of death. IMO that Casey killed Caylee in a fit of rage by putting the duct tape over her mouth and nose. Chloroform may not have been involved in it at all at that point.

Very possible. I do go back and forth on this.

[AnniePie]

Actually I need to go, Annie. I couldn't sleep last night so watched a couple of Netflix freebies on my computer, up 'til about 4 a.m. or a little later, so I've been dragging today ;-)

And tomorrow's a Monday-Monday for me. :thumbdown:

See you all later! Niters.

'Night crime! Have a good sleep and see you tomorrow. :smile:

[AnniePie]

Very possible. I do go back and forth on this.

I go back and forth on several things like this. But one thing I do not waver on is that Casey killed her baby, and her family tried to cover it up. And it disgusts me to no end that this is true.

[Jester]

I am of the mind that Casey was drugging Caylee and putting her in the trunk of the car to sleep while she partied.

We know she didn't have a babysitter; we know she partied on nights when C&G didn't have Caylee; so where was Caylee? This wasn't just one night, but many.

She was knocked out in the trunk of the car.

I also think Caylee's death was an unintentional overdose, a dose gone wrong, rather than premeditated murder (I vacillate on this though). However, because she died from an OD of chloroform, most likely, it wasn't an accident Casey thought she could report. So she went into coverup mode and the case became what we have before us today.

Absolutely.
Tracy says GHB
Casey says roofies (rohypnol)
Tracy says ether
Casey says chloroform

Fun Game! I too believe that Casey was habitually drugging Caylee with chloroform, and one time she accidentally killed her. I too think she drugged her and put her in the trunk - there's still the night where Caylee was there when the boyfriend went to sleep (Ricardo?), and not there in the morning. Casey said Cindy demanded she take Caylee home, Cindy says it didn't happen. Maybe Caylee was chloroformed and started to vomit ... maybe Casey took her to the car, where she passed out again. Maybe Casey had already seen Caylee overdosed on chloroform. She couldn't admit that she was drugging her child, so she hid the body.

There was motive, to some extent, in that she did think it was okay to drug her child, and recklessly used a potentially lethal drug. She was willing to take the chance that it resulted in death for the sake of partying. After Caylee died, she indulged in partying ... as if Caylee was having a very long sleep. The heart on the duct tape ... symbolizing I love you but I don't want you ... another memory in the scrap book.

[seeing_eye]

I go back and forth on several things like this. But one thing I do not waver on is that Casey killed her baby, and her family tried to cover it up. And it disgusts me to no end that this is true.

I totally agree with you there!

[Irestmycase]

My most important hope would be that the jury takes exactly 31 minutes to convict this creature!

[seeing_eye]

My most important hope would be that the jury takes exactly 31 minutes to convict this creature!

Now that would be justice! :thumbup:

[Jester]

Hi Jester, there are several pics we've seen of Caylee in which she has a knotted-up forehead--she looks uncertain, is looking at the photographer in an uncertain fashion. Definitely not the look of a happy 2-yo.
No, not a happy child. It's an odd knot that I would expect to see in a teenager that is holding back an objection but learning to control themselves. I think that Caylee's feelings were being demolished and ignored, and she resented it, but she thrived on her mother's love - the center of her universe, but her mother caused her pain. Children that age can become so upset that their feelings are not validated that they become despondent, or learn not to really have the feelings anymore ... a method of coping. I think this is the face of a child whose mother is a sociopath. Okay, maybe I'm reading into it ... a bit ... but I think it's an odd expression for such a young child.

Found it ... here's the picture: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7L-chEz7n0E/SjvWu1ChLVI/AAAAAAAABgc/h6WG9BR0tBk/s400/caylee+collage.jpg

[Jester]

I do believe Casey really thought she'd have a "mistrial" (wrong word) and that Baez was leading her to believe that she'd be going free eventually (and could just scoot right out to the beach to work on her tan).

I think AndreaL told her in no uncertain terms that she might be able to get the death penalty off the table, but that she was most likely looking at LWOP.

I believe Andrea also had a come-to-jesus-meeting with C&G, telling them the same thing.

I believe it's the first dose of reality any of them have had about the seriousness of this case, and that they won't be able to control it or lie their ways out of it.

I'm still waiting for George to break ... and spill what he knows. He is the weak link in the AntFam.

ETA: This is probably the reason for C&G's recent baptism, they are probably turning to jesus as their only hope to save Casey. Not going to work.

Jesus is not going to save any of the family in this life. Baez had her believing it was a cake walk ... and that was enough to keep Casey as his client until she was so deep in she couldn't change lawyers.

[AnniePie]

My most important hope would be that the jury takes exactly 31 minutes to convict this creature!

Who were you in your most previous life?

[Jester]

One possibility for the duct tape is that after killing Caylee unintentionally, Casey added the tape/sticker to try to make it look like a kidnapping/murder--and she concocted the kidnapping story.

The heart sticker was a mistake, if so. That was some emotional addition of Casey's. A kidnapper wouldn't have done that.

Caylee was scrapbooked ... another memory.

[Jester]

I am so naive, DL. I seem to want to trust everyone way too long, and then I'm always disappointed. I've always just assumed that those dark circles under Caylee's eyes were from an allergy or something to that effect. But now that I've read your post, I (very sadly) believe you're right.

What an horrific life that little darling must have had.

Dark circles can be allergies, but there was redness under the eyes sometimes, and allergies go away fast in a young child - just change the environment. She was a healthy child that did not have a regular family doctor.

I too think she was tired not only from being hauled around throughout the night, but even when she was home she was not in bed at a decent time. Cindy phoned Casey to come home every time she went out because Cindy wanted to go to bed, and someone had to look after Caylee. If Caylee were asleep, a sleeping Cindy was enough to look after a sleeping Caylee - that's what parents do. The only reason Casey had to come home was because no one was putting Caylee to bed until they wanted to go to bed ... and then it was Casey's problem.

[Jester]

I respectfully disagree about the mode of death. IMO that Casey killed Caylee in a fit of rage by putting the duct tape over her mouth and nose. Chloroform may not have been involved in it at all at that point.

So do you think that Caylee was never chloroformed, like GHB, or that it didn't happen at the time that Caylee was murdered? Did Casey normally have duct tape in her car? Did Casey duct tape her daughter's face to keep the fluids from leaking, or was the duct tape part of the cover up, and the heart sticker a "happy thought"?

[happygert]

No, not a happy child. It's an odd knot that I would expect to see in a teenager that is holding back an objection but learning to control themselves. I think that Caylee's feelings were being demolished and ignored, and she resented it, but she thrived on her mother's love - the center of her universe, but her mother caused her pain. Children that age can become so upset that their feelings are not validated that they become despondent, or learn not to really have the feelings anymore ... a method of coping. I think this is the face of a child whose mother is a sociopath. Okay, maybe I'm reading into it ... a bit ... but I think it's an odd expression for such a young child.

Found it ... here's the picture: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7L-chEz7n0E/SjvWu1ChLVI/AAAAAAAABgc/h6WG9BR0tBk/s400/caylee+collage.jpg

Jester ITA Caylee was not a happy Little Girl in all her pictures even if she looks like she's smiling imo she's not really .. No sparkle in her little eyes she looks so sad.. I have a grandson whos 2 1/2 and when my little guy smiles his whole face lights up.. His eyes just sparkle all the more.. There's something about Caylee's eyes that really bugs me.. They say the window to our soul is thru our eyes and she looks soo sad to me.. Even when cindy is behind the camera there's still that look... IMO both thought Caylee was an inconvenience..Neither one imo really loved Caylee.. both too self centered to give Caylee the love and nurturing she needed..

[AnniePie]

Dark circles can be allergies, but there was redness under the eyes sometimes, and allergies go away fast in a young child - just change the environment. She was a healthy child that did not have a regular family doctor.

I too think she was tired not only from being hauled around throughout the night, but even when she was home she was not in bed at a decent time. Cindy phoned Casey to come home every time she went out because Cindy wanted to go to bed, and someone had to look after Caylee. If Caylee were asleep, a sleeping Cindy was enough to look after a sleeping Caylee - that's what parents do. The only reason Casey had to come home was because no one was putting Caylee to bed until they wanted to go to bed ... and then it was Casey's problem.

That is just too sad for words. A regular bedtime is so important to the proper development of children, and this just breaks my heart.

[happygert]

Dark circles can be allergies, but there was redness under the eyes sometimes, and allergies go away fast in a young child - just change the environment. She was a healthy child that did not have a regular family doctor.

I too think she was tired not only from being hauled around throughout the night, but even when she was home she was not in bed at a decent time. Cindy phoned Casey to come home every time she went out because Cindy wanted to go to bed, and someone had to look after Caylee. If Caylee were asleep, a sleeping Cindy was enough to look after a sleeping Caylee - that's what parents do. The only reason Casey had to come home was because no one was putting Caylee to bed until they wanted to go to bed ... and then it was Casey's problem.

IMO Caylee was being drugged.. cindy and george didnt have Caylee many nights when casey was gone Caylee was with her.. However most of the time no one ever saw Caylee.. No sitter not home with grandparents where was she? IMO casey drugged her and locked her in the trunk many nights..Why do I think she was in the trunk? Because if she was in trunk no one would see her.. Where did casey take and put her in the middle of the night when she told RM that her mom called her in middle of night to take Caylee home? That never happened..Caylee was not taken home that night..Where did casey take her? where did casey put her?

[seeing_eye]

So do you think that Caylee was never chloroformed, like GHB, or that it didn't happen at the time that Caylee was murdered? Did Casey normally have duct tape in her car? Did Casey duct tape her daughter's face to keep the fluids from leaking, or was the duct tape part of the cover up, and the heart sticker a "happy thought"?

I think it is a possibility that Caylee had been drugged, but not sure about that. I do not believe Casey kept duct tape in her car. I believe Caylee was killed in the house the night of the 15th by Casey placing duct tape across her mouth and nose so that she couldn't breathe or scream. I think Casey hid her body in the back yard for a little while. Then afraid the body would be discovered, she placed her in the trunk of her car. She probably just forgot about her back there until the stink got too bad and she was forced to dump the body. Then she forgot about her again.

[AlohaRainbow]

When Casey was talking to Tracy about a "mistrial" months ago I don't think Casey knew the difference between a mistrial and an acquittal.
I could see Casey back then if they tried it and the verdict came down as a "Mistrial" and Casey standing up quickly thinking that she was going to walk out the court room a free girl with mom and pops.:rolleyes::laugh:

I do believe she clearly knows what the difference is, now.
Welcome aboard AL.

that reminds me of a medical malpractice case that we defended for a physician. the patient didn't have an atty (he was pro se) and obviously didn't understand the medical records. we presented an evaluation in which a subsequent independent medical exam (IME) phsycian noted that the patient walked without a limp when he didn't realize he was being observed, but as soon as he knew he was being observed, he started limping. one of the IME doctor's conclusions was that he was malingering.

at the hearing for the claim, when the atty i work with read from the records about the "malingering", the patient/plaintiff got this smug look on his face as though the IME doctor had diagnosed him with some terrible medical conidtion that was fault of our physician client. the meaning of the word malingering went phffffttt! right over his head.

with casey's broken use of the language (i.e. "without haste"), i wouldn't be surprised if "mistrial" has/had a "different" meaning for her than it does to the rest of us :tongueside:

[happygert]

Lets face it. The little vamp was annoyed because she thought Caylee was a menace when she felt she was stuck with her. Casey had to have been drugging her and putting her in the trunk. Then go back to RM's casa and slide into the crib with him.
Her trips back and forth to that trunk was frequent when she took Caylee with her. IMO... For a long time.
She got hers and Caylee was suffering once again in a dark small box with tape across her mouth.
I think Casey had that duct tape across her mouth every time she put her in the trunk. Know why?
Cause Casey thought about the possibility of Caylee waking up and crying out because she was cold, it was dark and she was frightened. Casey had to make sure if Caylee cried out (screamed out) that someone wouldn't be walking by at that hour of the night or someone coming home and parking their car and hearing a baby screaming and crying from the trunk of a car.
This particular night didn't work for Casey because I bet she covered her mouth and nose by accident.

ITA about the tape but I think she used all the tape she took from amy. I also think Caylee was murdered in the house the night of the 15th and casey left and put her in the trunk.. I dont think it was an accident that she covered Caylee's nose.. IMO she knew exactly what she was doing.. Several pieces of tape around her nose and mouth..Caylee was wrapped in the pooh blanket and put in that laundry hamper so no one would see her Carrying a dead Baby.. If anyone looked in the trunk (like george for example) the first thing he'd see was the hamper probably with Caylee's Pooh Blanket and just think it was laundry..IMO It wasn't an accident..One thing casey never planned on was the smell of a decomposing body..

[crimeq]

that reminds me of a medical malpractice case that we defended for a physician. the patient didn't have an atty (he was pro se) and obviously didn't understand the medical records. we presented an evaluation in which a subsequent independent medical exam (IME) phsycian noted that the patient walked without a limp when he didn't realize he was being observed, but as soon as he knew he was being observed, he started limping. one of the IME doctor's conclusions was that he was malingering.

at the hearing for the claim, when the atty i work with read from the records about the "malingering", the patient/plaintiff got this smug look on his face as though the IME doctor had diagnosed him with some terrible medical conidtion that was fault of our physician client. the meaning of the word malingering went phffffttt! right over his head.

with casey's broken use of the language (i.e. "without haste"), i wouldn't be surprised if "mistrial" has/had a "different" meaning for her than it does to the rest of us :tongueside:

She probably thinks it means "mistakenly tried" -- as in, there was no reason for them to try her for something she didn't do.

Just popped back in for a sec ... haven't gone to bed yet, though I should ... am doing some reading at another site too, though.

[seeing_eye]

ITA about the tape but I think she used all the tape she took from amy. I also think Caylee was murdered in the house the night of the 15th and casey left and put her in the trunk.. I dont think it was an accident that she covered Caylee's nose.. IMO she knew exactly what she was doing.. Several pieces of tape around her nose and mouth..Caylee was wrapped in the pooh blanket and put in that laundry hamper so no one would see her Carrying a dead Baby.. If anyone looked in the trunk (like george for example) the first thing he'd see was the hamper probably with Caylee's Pooh Blanket and just think it was laundry..IMO It wasn't an accident..One thing casey never planned on was the smell of a decomposing body..

I totally agree. In no way was it an accidental death. And I'll tell you the reason I think that. It's because of the lack of emotion Casey has concerning Caylee and her death. If the death had been an accident, I do believe any mother would be showing some kind of emotion over the loss of her child. But not Casey. Instead, she acts as though she's glad to be rid of her child. She killed that child purposely in a fit of rage against Cindy.

[happygert]

I totally agree. In no way was it an accidental death. And I'll tell you the reason I think that. It's because of the lack of emotion Casey has concerning Caylee and her death. If the death had been an accident, I do believe any mother would be showing some kind of emotion over the loss of her child. But not Casey. Instead, she acts as though she's glad to be rid of her child. She killed that child purposely in a fit of rage against Cindy.

Yep.. She was tired of being a mother , that she never wanted to be in the first place..,and she was tired or competeing with cindy and Caylee.. one was bad enough let alone 2..IMO casey hated Caylee..

[AbbyNormal]

Perf, I do think the root of all evil in that house is Cindy. That doesn't excuse Casey one little bit, but Casey has probably paid all her life for the misfortune of being born to Cindy.Very much agree.

Casey is a young adult and needs to be accountable. But, once uopn a time, she was an innocent like Caylee.

[happygert]

I keep switching back and forth, gert.
There is so many questions that we would have to figure out and answer. What you have said makes a lot of sense, too.

The reason why the duct tape was wrapped completely around Caylee's head is because Casey had to make sure Caylee couldn't pull it off with her little hands. She certainly couldn't restrain her hands. Cindy would have noticed the marks on her wrists.
Then again, the duct tape would have made red marks or some kind of mark on her little face, too
This is confusing because there is always a question with an answer as to how she died, when she died and where she died.:confused:

I've thought about the red marks on Caylee's little face..Im guessing cindy didnt see much of Caylee like no one else did either so the marks for casey wasn't an issue.. .IMO it wasn't wrapped around her head until the night she murdered her..


My nieces teacher wrapped duct tape around Mindy's mouth and head because she was talking in class she went like that all day the tape wasn't even taking off during lunch.. She had to sit in lunch room and watch everyone eat.. then she went to assembly like that.. every single student, teacher and principle seen her and DID NOTHING!..
Tape was left on until it was time for her to get on bus.. when teacher pulled tape off it pulled off Mindy's skin and hair out.. Needless to say my brother went ballistic.. took her to police station filed charges on teacher and took her to every school board members house..BTW she has asthma

I think the tape that she was using before is tape she took from Amy, and I dont know how strong that roll was.. some has more adhesive then others..We know for sure the tape she used from her house was very strong..

One more thought what if she was using the chloroform and was just leaving the rag or what ever she was using on Caylee in the trunk wouldn't that keep Caylee out until casey took her out of the trunk?

[happygert]

Only difference is Casey is alive today. I think Cindy gave the only thing she had when she gave birth to Casey. Material things. I don't think Cindy is capable of warm and fuzzy based on Cindy's display of effection to date. Cindy happens to be a considerably cold person.

ITA IMO cindy is a narcissistic psychopath just like casey..

[happygert]

:ohmy: gert...That is a horrible true story and very close to home, if you will. I can't believe no one did a thing about it. What is wrong with these schools and teachers today.
He should have sue'd them big time for the anguish they put Mindy through.:ohmy:

He did big time. It was put in a trust until she turned 18 ..she was 8 or 9 at the time...NOPE, NO ONE did a darn thing.. she went like that from the time school started until time to get on bus.. Takes my brother a lot to get mad except when it comes to his kids.. Like most of us you dont mess with our kids.. Let me tell you all he!! broke lose...that night and the next day when he went to the school.. He had to be escorted out of the school..

So the duct tape thing with casey imo was put on Caylee's nose purposely.. IMO it wasn't an accident.. especially if it was wrapped around her nose and mouth.. It had to be wrapped so tight that it kept her jaws bones connected to her skull..

[happygert]

Casey wanted to make sure she didn't scream out. The tight tape around her jaw bone shows it was thought to be permanent...

Yep.. ITA. I dont understand why she just didnt give her up for adoption even at the age of 2 someone would have took her..and loved her..

[Jester]

My most important hope would be that the jury takes exactly 31 minutes to convict this creature!

One post, and what you say is the answer, just like the Restaurant at the end of the Universe ends with 42 ... or was that Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas ... or maybe it was about carrying a towel around. Never mind ... 31 minutes to be convicted is all it should take. I hope they synchronize their watches.

[Jester]

I go back and forth on several things like this. But one thing I do not waver on is that Casey killed her baby, and her family tried to cover it up. And it disgusts me to no end that this is true.

One advantage to lawyers taking so long to respond in court (all those delays) is that everyone can see the big picture ... and in this case, the big picture says the Anthony family, without a doubt, tried to cover up their granddaughter's murder.

I have to wonder if the only reason that the disappearance was reported is because the car was towed and someone outside the family knew it smelled like death ... they had to report her disappearance or it would become undeniable that they didn't know something was up.

[Jester]

When Casey was talking to Tracy about a "mistrial" months ago I don't think Casey knew the difference between a mistrial and an acquittal.
I could see Casey back then if they tried it and the verdict came down as a "Mistrial" and Casey standing up quickly thinking that she was going to walk out the court room a free girl with mom and pops.:rolleyes::laugh:

I do believe she clearly knows what the difference is, now.
Welcome aboard AL.

So you think Baez said that something Casey said or did might result in a mistrial, and Casey understood Baez could make the whole thing end in a dismissal ... and not until Linda Baden came along did Casey begin to understand the difference between "got away with it" and "life in prison or capital punishment"?

I missed her most recent court appearance. Is she heavier or less dramatic?

[happygert]

I agree...Casey could fair just as good if she pretended she still had her if she gave her up, just as good as she pretended she was not dead :glare:

I've always wondered why cindy and casey didn't tell everyone that casey put Caylee up for adoption.

IMO cindy knew the car was at amscot and she seen it when she went to work everyday.. I think she thought the car was stolen and thought casey was in the clear..Then when george went and got the letter they knew that plan wasnt going to work.. because of the smell of the car and she knew the guy at towyard smelled it to.. She also knew george said something about casey and Caylee being missing...
I also think thats bs about the notice for the letter being put elsewhere instead of with the rest of the mail.. IMO they were trying to come up with another plan thats why it took them so long to go and get the letter.. jmo..
If car had been stolen they would have blamed it on who ever stold the car..

[Jester]

So were all the rest of The Anthony's - seems they've ALL "scrapbooked themselves right into a corner!" but that is MOO. MOO only. :wink:

Yes, much was said yesterday about the overstuffed house with new useless things, people that were too scared to even trust blood relatives.

[happygert]

So you think Baez said that something Casey said or did might result in a mistrial, and Casey understood Baez could make the whole thing end in a dismissal ... and not until Linda Baden came along did Casey begin to understand the difference between "got away with it" and "life in prison or capital punishment"?

I missed her most recent court appearance. Is she heavier or less dramatic?

Heavier... looked a little more frumpy.. hair needed shampooed.. and a brush.. heres some pics..

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20491513/detail.html

[Leanne Weich]

Jester ITA Caylee was not a happy Little Girl in all her pictures even if she looks like she's smiling imo she's not really .. No sparkle in her little eyes she looks so sad.. I have a grandson whos 2 1/2 and when my little guy smiles his whole face lights up.. His eyes just sparkle all the more.. There's something about Caylee's eyes that really bugs me.. They say the window to our soul is thru our eyes and she looks soo sad to me.. Even when cindy is behind the camera there's still that look... IMO both thought Caylee was an inconvenience..Neither one imo really loved Caylee.. both too self centered to give Caylee the love and nurturing she needed..

I think the one phone photo where Caylee looked genuinely happy is the one where George is holding her and it looks like she has tinsel in her hair.

[Jester]

I've always wondered why cindy and casey didn't tell everyone that casey put Caylee up for adoption.

IMO cindy knew the car was at amscot and she seen it when she went to work everyday.. I think she thought the car was stolen and thought casey was in the clear..Then when george went and got the letter they knew that plan wasnt going to work.. because of the smell of the car and she knew the guy at towyard smelled it to.. She also knew george said something about casey and Caylee being missing...
I also think thats bs about the notice for the letter being put elsewhere instead of with the rest of the mail.. IMO they were trying to come up with another plan thats why it took them so long to go and get the letter.. jmo..
If car had been stolen they would have blamed it on who ever stold the car..

Good point. Not only did they wait until after they had to pick up the death car to actually phone police, but Cindy returned to work with the smell of her granddaughter's murder in her nostrils. George smelled it all the way home. Like the questions whether Cindy was truly unable to make contact with Casey for 31 days, and whether she really had no idea that Casey was not working :rolleyes: ... but you're right and the family made excuses right away about why they waited 5 days to actually respond to the tow notice, and 31 days to respond to the obvious missing child. Cindy would probably have covered for Casey, as would George and Lee, had the car not been towed.

[Jester]

Does anyone know the story on Lee getting immunity. And...Do you know what for.

I remember reading that it was automatic when he testified because he presumably had no complicity in the murder ... after he testified, his lawyer went on record to say that his services were no longer needed. I don't know the legal aspects, but that's the impression I had from reading about it.

[farrahrani]

You know...someone brought up a good point a while back, something that a lot of us haven't thought of. It changed my mind about the whole, 'locked in the trunk to sleep' scenario.

We live in Fl, a place where children die almost every summer from being accidentally left inside vehicles, for even short periods of time. It's never deliberate, just carelessness and parents who don't realize running into the store for 'just a minute' turns into an hour or two or more, and they come back and their kid is passed out.

I don't believe Caylee was left in that trunk, at least not on a regular basis. I think about that air mattress Casey had and can't help but wonder if she wasn't chloroforming the baby and locking her in that property that was unused, near where she was eventually found. Where the memorial was set up. I think that would be a much more likely story. Though overheated because of no electricity and no occupancy, it would be miserable, but not deadly like a car. Wasn't that house adjoining two streets with names like Zenaida and Gonzalez?

[Jester]

Casey needs to go see a barber there at the jail house. They do provide them for that. I think she has to use her commissary note to get it done. I also think she would look much better if she had her hair cut short like she had it.
Of course, IF AL has anything to say about it, Casey will continue to grow that greasy hair out more.
AL appears to be a fan of long hair, no matter how it looks on you.:w00t:
jmo

After Andrea Lyon joined the case, Casey was seen in court wearing a hair piece like a nice pinned up long-haired bun, and a suit. Maybe that was the trial run. Maybe Casey will grow out her hair so she no longer has to borrow AL's hairpieces.

Andrea needs to update her appearance ... maybe Casey can play dress up with her ... like Casey played dress up with Tracy and the watch.

[Jester]

You know...someone brought up a good point a while back, something that a lot of us haven't thought of. It changed my mind about the whole, 'locked in the trunk to sleep' scenario.

We live in Fl, a place where children die almost every summer from being accidentally left inside vehicles, for even short periods of time. It's never deliberate, just carelessness and parents who don't realize running into the store for 'just a minute' turns into an hour or two or more, and they come back and their kid is passed out.

I don't believe Caylee was left in that trunk, at least not on a regular basis. I think about that air mattress Casey had and can't help but wonder if she wasn't chloroforming the baby and locking her in that property that was unused, near where she was eventually found. Where the memorial was set up. I think that would be a much more likely story. Though overheated because of no electricity and no occupancy, it would be miserable, but not deadly like a car. Wasn't that house adjoining two streets with names like Zenaida and Gonzalez?

That's a freaky thought. What would Caylee have done if she came to and her mother wasn't there?

[Jester]

I was with the understanding that Cindy had talked to Casey within the 31 day time line and Casey kept telling her Caylee was fine and with the Nanny.:angry: Maybe it was by text, I don't remember which one. The reality is that "5" day window that both Cindy and George are using the excuse they didn't pick up the car because they had no Idea it was at a tow yard.
However, IIRC, Cindy was trying to get Casey home so avoid her going to jail..
Now, why would Cindy say something like that and why was it so important for Casey to get home to Cindy. Seems to me she wanted Casey to get there before they picked up the car from the tow yard.

Is my time line correct??:confused:

As far as I know, they talked. Cindy initially said that they talked and phoned daily, but phone records and texting suggests that Cindy was not always successful in connecting with Casey; that Casey was elusive, and avoided contact with Cindy. You're right and Casey, in fact, made excuses for denying contact between Cindy and Caylee, claiming that Caylee was busy here, there, and everywhere ... with the nice kidnapper in Jacksonville, Universal studios, or the beach.

I don't believe that Cindy and George were unaware of the tow notice ... I think they delayed. It is odd that the parents were able to contact Casey, and find out where she was, pretty fast when it was her or them that were going to have to claim responsibility for the death car.

It's certainly a possibility that Cindy wanted to get Casey home so Casey didn't have to face the music with no one but her internet boyfriend to have her back.

[Jester]

OK...that is TOO "LKL Weird" for me...Jester! You saying Synchronize the Watches and I posted one of my posties and said the EXACT same THING...so that leads to the only obvious thing there is! Great minds....and so on and so forth....lol :thumbup:

I think a number of us are starting to synchronize a clear understanding of what happened.

Cheers

[Jester]

Heavier... looked a little more frumpy.. hair needed shampooed.. and a brush.. heres some pics..

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20491513/detail.html

Thank you for that link. She looks heavier, and downright sick in a couple of shots. I would say she's scared of AL, and even Baez has straightened out their relationship ... professional relationship all the way now. Her other lawyers look very skeptical ... like they're voyeurs or something. She's about to cry, but holds it together. Dad in the background ... same big unpleasant frown that he always had. Casey hasn't been sleeping ... odd for a woman that has nothing to do.

She does need a barber, and she's better off with a bad jail cut than the do she has. It's much too harsh, and turns her into a dumb looking pinhead.

[farrahrani]

Thank you for that link. She looks heavier, and downright sick in a couple of shots. I would say she's scared of AL, and even Baez has straightened out their relationship ... professional relationship all the way now. Her other lawyers look very skeptical ... like they're voyeurs or something. She's about to cry, but holds it together. Dad in the background ... same big unpleasant frown that he always had. Casey hasn't been sleeping ... odd for a woman that has nothing to do.

She does need a barber, and she's better off with a bad jail cut than the do she has. It's much too harsh, and turns her into a dumb looking pinhead.


Someone mentioned that you only get these tiny packets of shampoo in jail. Her best bet would be to chop it off to chin length, try to make it like a pageboy, because long hair needs more shampoo. It's so greasy now, she needs to cut that off, and wash as well as she can. I don't know if the commissary will sell shampoo, but if it does, she needs to stop springing for pork rinds and invest in some personal cleansing items.

[legalmania]

Good point. Not only did they wait until after they had to pick up the death car to actually phone police, but Cindy returned to work with the smell of her granddaughter's murder in her nostrils. George smelled it all the way home. Like the questions whether Cindy was truly unable to make contact with Casey for 31 days, and whether she really had no idea that Casey was not working :rolleyes: ... but you're right and the family made excuses right away about why they waited 5 days to actually respond to the tow notice, and 31 days to respond to the obvious missing child. Cindy would probably have covered for Casey, as would George and Lee, had the car not been towed.

If they would have called the police and told them that their adult daughter and her baby were missing and so was the car, LE would have said well there is nothing we can do except take a report. LE would have treated it like it was a mother who was taking her daughter and moving away from her parents. As soon as Cindy found Casey without Caylee she called LE and told them the car smelt like something dead had been in it, if Cindy was covering up why did she say that? She could have not called LE and not said anything.

[Jester]

I agree...Casey could fair just as good if she pretended she still had her if she gave her up, just as good as she pretended she was not dead :glare:

That would have worked out just fine for the parents, but when that death car turned up at the tow yard with their names on the registration, there wasn't much they could do except delay, and then track Casey down (amazing how fast it happened when it mattered) and get her home to take the fall for the evidence. It was the parents, or Casey, that would ultimately take responsibility for the car ... the best Cindy could come up with was to call Nancy Grace and Greta van Susteren to pretend there was a kidnapped child ... with the smell of the death car still stuck in her nostrils ... a kidnapped child with the unknown nanny/friend of 2 - 4 years. She was probably ready to wretch from the stench in her house ... with the car doors open ... but she pretended it was instant exhaustion and collapse ... give her some gum and a water bottle.

[Jester]

If they would have called the police and told them that their adult daughter and her baby were missing and so was the car, LE would have said well there is nothing we can do except take a report. LE would have treated it like it was a mother who was taking her daughter and moving away from her parents. As soon as Cindy found Casey without Caylee she called LE and told them the car smelt like something dead had been in it, if Cindy was covering up why did she say that? She could have not called LE and not said anything.

I'm thinking that once the car was picked up from the tow yard, there was an outside the family person that knew about the smell, and the garbage bag in the dumster. The Anthonys probably talked it over before deciding what to do. We know that after they knew the smell of their murdered granddaughter's remains, Cindy went back to work, George drove the car home, and they had several hours to talk before Cindy picked up Casey and reported Caylee's disappearance. George and Cindy decided that they had to bring Casey into it to avoid being responsible for the death car. George would have known that concealing the car evidence was not an option with an outside the family person tow yard guy for dumpster diving evidence. Once the disappearance was announced, we know that the tow yard guy knew exactly what it was about and dove into the dumpster, only to report that it was missing ... having already been picked up by police. He was not going to forget the incident.

[legalmania]

I'm thinking that once the car was picked up from the tow yard, there was an outside the family person that knew about the smell, and the garbage bag in the dumster. The Anthonys probably talked it over before deciding what to do. We know that after they knew the smell of their murdered granddaughter's remains, Cindy went back to work, George drove the car home, and they had several hours to talk before Cindy picked up Casey and reported Caylee's disappearance. George and Cindy decided that they had to bring Casey into it to avoid being responsible for the death car. George would have known that concealing the car evidence was not an option with an outside the family person tow yard guy for dumpster diving evidence. Once the disappearance was announced, we know that the tow yard guy knew exactly what it was about and dove into the dumpster, only to report that it was missing ... having already been picked up by police. He was not going to forget the incident.

An outside of the family person? You have to be careful about bringing in people who have not been mentioned, this could easily turn into reasonable doubt. The tow yard guy said he smelt nothing, as well as no one reporting a strange smell coming from the car that sat in front of the video store for several days.

[Jester]

[/B]

THIS ONE, J! I vote for Door Number 2! But I might possibly be talked into bartering for some other Door - just keepin' my options open - you know, it truly feels like it totally IS "Let's Make a Deal with Monty Hall" doncha know? Delay delay delay - but know that ONE DAY - The whole "31 days" thingy goes to court. And then she is toast. Fork her. Done. :glare: MOO.

But I said I might want ANOTHER DOOR! BOO-HOO! I SAID IT ON THE THINGY BEFORE!! I DID!!!!!

If it's Casey Anthony, it's probably Monty Python, not Let's Make A Deal with Monty or Howard Stern. reporting on whether Jose is "hittin it".

[Jester]

I especially like the fifth slide ... dad, and the two other male lawyers are in the picture. By the seventh slide ... she's all composed. She's showing emotions on command. When the lawyers wince upon meeting her, she acts all hurt and traumatized, but she can't hold that up for long. She looks tired, but on her game ... somehow missing the point.

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20491513/detail.html

[Jester]

Also note: Borrowing her "cod pieces" are frowned upon. Ms. Lyons insists that Inmate Anthony somehow provide her own crotch coverer. She does not mind sharing a hair piece for a bun here and there - but DO NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HER GOOD MOOD by mentioning that you lost or misplaced your "cod piece" - cause she HATES when that happens! FGS, Criminals! Prepare yourselves for BATTLE! FIGHT! Full armor. YES, including. the. cod. piece. Dipstick.

New Caylee Thread for Monday ...
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=358218

What's a codpieces?

[Jester]

[/B]

Hey f - I had not considered this, either! But it sounds plausible, yes it does! Others have thought she was trying to CLUE IN LEE with these names and SHE'S CLOSE - OUR FAMILY (which means YOU, Lee) even goes there or is at least familiar with the location! And about the Zeneida and/or Gonzalez Names... - Question 1: was that unoccupied HOUSE once owned, or currently owned, by someone with a similar sounding surname? And Question 2: Wasn't the STREET name of that property also something with a similar sounding Hispanic accented surname?

That is very interesting...yes it is...:glare: Something to consider, for sure! Lee and Casey DEFINITELY used their CODED Language Skills and brazenly "Clicked and Knocked" about this on the jail visitation video thingy! She kept TRYING to tell him this stuff! This could be.

So did it turn out that Caylee was found at the crossroads of neighbors Zenaida and Gonzales or Fernandez ... those Mexican sounding names that were not allowed in the Anthony house. An unoccupied house for Caylee is possible, but the chance that she would wake up without Casey ... what would she do? It seems likely that she would have been found or seen if she had been left there regularly at all hours of the day and night. I suspect that Caylee had side effects from chloroform, or roofies/ether/GHB, and that she was administered some kind of "knock out" drug more than once.

[Jester]

Well, Jester, sorry to say this, but - I am sure that baby woke up in lots of LKL WEIRD places to find her mother wasn't there - or at least in her eyesight when she awoke - like during a "Party" in a strange apartment or house...IIRC - didn't Caylee have a BAD reaction when Casey left her line of sight? I think I saw that she threw a fit if she could not even SEE her mom!

Oh, no. To even have to speculate. To even wonder this. Please, God, NO! "Did she ever wake up in some abandoned and creepy house like this one?" SHUDDER. We may never know, sadly.

THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION, though. The invisinanny WAS FREE of charge! This would not cost her a dime. Zanny the kid...hide her. OOPS! PANIC!! WHAT DID YOU DO, CASEY!?!
Yes, she woke up in weird "mom met this guy on the internet last week" places ... wonder if the drums work. Oh look, there's two passed out guys on the couch. That was Caylee's life.

Interesting point. Perhaps Casey was taking Caylee to weird parties with strangers that were drunk or drugged, and Caylee developed a phobia about strangers ... needed to have her mom in her sight. There's a saying about children needing their parents, no matter how bad they are ... and another about children of sociopaths.

[crimeq]

You know...someone brought up a good point a while back, something that a lot of us haven't thought of. It changed my mind about the whole, 'locked in the trunk to sleep' scenario.

We live in Fl, a place where children die almost every summer from being accidentally left inside vehicles, for even short periods of time. It's never deliberate, just carelessness and parents who don't realize running into the store for 'just a minute' turns into an hour or two or more, and they come back and their kid is passed out.

I don't believe Caylee was left in that trunk, at least not on a regular basis. I think about that air mattress Casey had and can't help but wonder if she wasn't chloroforming the baby and locking her in that property that was unused, near where she was eventually found. Where the memorial was set up. I think that would be a much more likely story. Though overheated because of no electricity and no occupancy, it would be miserable, but not deadly like a car. Wasn't that house adjoining two streets with names like Zenaida and Gonzalez?

You're right about this but now I'm very confused; she was leaving Caylee SOMEwhere.

Now where?

[crimeq]

That's a freaky thought. What would Caylee have done if she came to and her mother wasn't there?

How might this play out with the reports we've heard that Caylee didn't want to lose sight of Casey, when with her? Screamed when she left the room, etc.

[legalmania]

How might this play out with the reports we've heard that Caylee didn't want to lose sight of Casey, when with her? Screamed when she left the room, etc.

People don't like when scenarios like that come into play, but the defense will use stuff like this a lot, there is going to be a lot of reasonable doubt thrown at the jury. Now can the prosecution explain it in a way to satisfy the jury , we will see.

[crimeq]

I especially like the fifth slide ... dad, and the two other male lawyers are in the picture. By the seventh slide ... she's all composed. She's showing emotions on command. When the lawyers wince upon meeting her, she acts all hurt and traumatized, but she can't hold that up for long. She looks tired, but on her game ... somehow missing the point.

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20491513/detail.html

Slide 6 - BradC is looking at Casey strangely ...

Slide 11 - Casey is doing the Chicken Dance

[legalmania]

Simon Burch WITNESSED The Car being picked up by "The Unhappy Anthony's", though. He also stated that he personally, "threw the bag of trash from the trunk into a dumpster at the yard."

We all know that The Anthony's claim The Smell came from The Pizza from That Trash from The Boyfriend's and placed in The Pontiac by The OC, herself. Mr. Birch can still testify, at the very least, something like, "well, I can tell you what it DID NOT smell like! Rotting maggoty pizza!" Does that make sense?

But will he testify that it smelt like death? Quick story there was this guy who had rotten octopus in his car for three days someone called police and said it smelt like a dead body, he had it parked in the post office parking lot police came and broke open the trunk thinking they would find a dead body, no body just octopus. What I am saying is if the smell was so bad at the junk yard why didn't it smell when it was in front of the video store?

[crimeq]

People don't like when scenarios like that come into play, but the defense will use stuff like this a lot, there is going to be a lot of reasonable doubt thrown at the jury. Now can the prosecution explain it in a way to satisfy the jury , we will see.

? not sure I follow? How will the defense use this, how will the prosecution use it? That Caylee cried if her mother left the room, and wouldn't go to anyone other than Casey (according to her friends)?

[crimeq]

But will he testify that it smelt like death? Quick story there was this guy who had rotten octopus in his car for three days someone called police and said it smelt like a dead body, he had it parked in the post office parking lot police came and broke open the trunk thinking they would find a dead body, no body just octopus. What I am saying is if the smell was so bad at the junk yard why didn't it smell when it was in front of the video store?

Many additional days in the hot Florida sun. The car got riper and riper.

[legalmania]

Many additional days in the hot Florida sun. The car got riper and riper.

The car with the octopus was in Florida also in the middle of summer also. I think we're on the wrong thread there is a new thread for Monday, we can talk over there.

[legalmania]

New Caylee Thread for Monday ...
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/sh...d.php?t=358218

[farrahrani]

But will he testify that it smelt like death? Quick story there was this guy who had rotten octopus in his car for three days someone called police and said it smelt like a dead body, he had it parked in the post office parking lot police came and broke open the trunk thinking they would find a dead body, no body just octopus. What I am saying is if the smell was so bad at the junk yard why didn't it smell when it was in front of the video store?



The car was sealed up, and probably decomp had just begun. You probably had to be right on top of it, like a foot away, to smell it. She had parked it right in front of the dumpster at the Amscot, and IIRC, it wasn't exactly next to the front doors, making it unlikely anyone would park next to it.

Simon Burch had already said that he had a cold when he went to tow the car, and couldn't smell anything, let alone a car he was only in front of long enough to hook it to the tow, then unhook when he got there.

It was only after it had been at the tow yard for a while that anyone noticed it. There would be no reason for anyone to be standing on top of it the entire time, so it was probably only noticed when someone had a reason to go near it.

JMO