All Things Michael Jackson

[Cindylee]

I will start this one. I hope it lasts. I put it in Entertainment to cover all bases. I hope.

[Firehead11]

It gets a bit frustrating discussing his death, if some cannot even acknowledge that MJ had a responsibility to his children and himself. There would have been no Dr. Murray if MJ, had taken a different road for himself.

Cindy, I was answering you and went to post and it was locked up....

But here is the reply I had:

I will discuss his death with you. Sure he had a responsibilty to his children and himself. And as I have stated numerous times about several issues that I have,

1. I would like to see a tox report (complete) which shows how long he was taking any drug, if that is possible. I want to see the levels of the drugs that were in his system at the time of his death.
2. Just because Murray stated something doesn't make it a true fact. Just because Nurse Lee stated something, doesn't make it a true fact.

3. I am really frustrated being put down or my opinions are considered another "excuse" for MJ.

4. I am really interested in seeing all the video of his rehearsals. (I won't go to the movies for it tho) The little snip-it that we have seen to date has most of us having a different opinion of the physical aspect of Jackson.

5. The bottom line, he is dead to early in life. There is so much more he could have done. But maybe some good will come out of his death. Just maybe one child, young adult will see that prescription drugs can be just as deadly as street drugs can be.

[Cindylee]

Cindy, I was answering you and went to post and it was locked up....

But here is the reply I had:

I will discuss his death with you. Sure he had a responsibilty to his children and himself. And as I have stated numerous times about several issues that I have,

1. I would like to see a tox report (complete) which shows how long he was taking any drug, if that is possible. I want to see the levels of the drugs that were in his system at the time of his death.
2. Just because Murray stated something doesn't make it a true fact. Just because Nurse Lee stated something, doesn't make it a true fact.

3. I am really frustrated being put down or my opinions are considered another "excuse" for MJ.

4. I am really interested in seeing all the video of his rehearsals. (I won't go to the movies for it tho) The little snip-it that we have seen to date has most of us having a different opinion of the physical aspect of Jackson.

5. The bottom line, he is dead to early in life. There is so much more he could have done. But maybe some good will come out of his death. Just maybe one child, young adult will see that prescription drugs can be just as deadly as street drugs can be.

I agree with all of your post. I would like much of the same.
We may be here for a while waiting for those reports. If we all can last that long. :laugh:

[retiredcop]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/30/macaulay-culkin-prince-mi_n_272392.html


Macaulay Culkin Is Prince Michael 'Blanket' Jackson's Father: UK Tabloid The Sun

[Cindylee]

Here is the fire map for those of you who don't know the area.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-la-fire-map-html,0,7464337.htmlstory

If you look at the top in the yellow, which is mandatory evacuation area....Acton is where MJ's two tigers are. They are at Tippy Hedren's (sp) animal sanctuary.

[Cindylee]

Is Debbie R.'s ranch in Palmdale?

[Unperson1984]

Has there been any rumors about why MJ was going to Klein's office before Office Hours three days a week?

[Cindylee]

He can't sue anybody. He's not the next of kin and MJ was not his sole support. imo

That's true. But, I guess he can get Kathrine to sue either for herself, or the kids.

[Cindylee]

As long as she's happy that's all that matters. I think the children will enjoy visiting her and getting away from the Jackson clan for a bit. jmo

I agree. I think it would be a good place....even though I don't like the desert....to visit. They could ride and learn about horses. I think it would be fun.

[Cindylee]

Yes, they would probably have chores to do running the little ranch and learning to take care of animals. She probably has lots of those around. She also rides a motorcycle. They would like that. She will probably teach Paris to cook and they would have a taste of a normal life. jmo

I don't know about the cooking.....DR doesn't seem like a domestic, cooking like person, :biggrin: but, I do think working with animals is a great thing. Teaches so many things.

[Cindylee]

I'll take the lack of response as a no.

Does anyone care to speculate?

I would guess Dr. Kline was doing some treatments. IYKWIM. I don't think it was ever said what he was doing there, just that he looked ok going in and sort of out of it coming out of the office.

[daniel green]

Has there been any rumors about why MJ was going to Klein's office before Office Hours three days a week?

That's very odd, no?

[daniel green]

Did anyone else watch the Forbes special on MJ's finances? :ohmy: I really hadn't thought too much about it, really, but watching the financial experts talk about the hundreds of millions on INTEREST payments alone was shocking. Nobody can get out from under that kind of debt.

[impartial]

I'll take the lack of response as a no.

Does anyone care to speculate?

It was said on some show I was watching that MJ had a prosthetic nose ... perhaps he was going to Klein's office to have it put on, adjusted, or blended in. I can't even believe I typed that.

Anyway, why was MJ going to Klein's office, instead of Klein going to MJ's house? Is Klein the cosmetologist (dermatologist) that is referenced in the warrant and cosmetologist is a typo?

[Unperson1984]

It was said on some show I was watching that MJ had a prosthetic nose ... perhaps he was going to Klein's office to have it put on, adjusted, or blended in. I can't even believe I typed that.

Anyway, why was MJ going to Klein's office, instead of Klein going to MJ's house? Is Klein the cosmetologist (dermatologist) that is referenced in the warrant and cosmetologist is a typo?

I don't think he had a prosthetic nose, he would have picked one that looked more natural.

[Xenam]

Has there been any rumors about why MJ was going to Klein's office before Office Hours three days a week?


According to Dr Klein -- he was "rebuilding" MJ's face/nose. Re: his nose -- the Doctor that treated him for Lupus said the cartilage in his nose had collapsed (which is an effect of Lupus) but he did not wear a prosthetic. If anyone can remember his name I could do a search ....... jut recall hearing him say this in an interview but cannot remember his name grrr

From LKL Transcript 7/8/09

KING: Grew from there.

You -- let's fast forward. You saw him the Monday before he died.

KLEIN: Absolutely. Yes, sir.

KING: What was the purpose of the visit?

KLEIN: He came to me because, basically, I was sort of rebuilding his face, because he had severe acne and scarring. He had scarring from having a lot of cosmetic surgery. And my expertise is -- like it is with every one of my patients. My patients are my treasures. And I was rebuilding his face so he looked much more normal. And contrary to what people said, he could not take off his nose. His nose was attached. But it looked too small. And I just was trying to get him ready to do the concert, because in the way he looked in his face, he wanted it to be absolutely as perfect as it could be.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/08/lkl.01.html

[Xenam]

The Dr. who treated him for Lupus was Dr Alan Metzger (also one of the Drs under investigation):

Dr. Allan Metzger, Lupus specialist, internist, rheumatologist, has a practice in West Hollywood, Calif.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,532821,00.html


Lupus is a chronic autoimmune disease that can damage any part of the body, and Chopra said it can cause skin discoloration known as vitiligo. "He had a lot of blotches on his skin, huge white patches all over his body. So he would cover up his body and that of course gave food for fodder to the press," Chopra says.

http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20287787_20288162,00.html


Description
Cartilage is a tough, flexible tissue that turns into bone in many places in the body. Bones all start out as cartilage in the fetus. Consequently, children have more cartilage than adults. Cartilage persists in adults in the linings of joints, the ears, the nose, the airway and the ribs near the breast bone. All these sites are attacked by relapsing polychondritis, which usually occurs equally in middle-aged males and females. It is frequently diagnosed along with rheumatoid arthritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, and other connective tissue diseases.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/relapsing+polychondritis

[Firehead11]

Having an impact on one young person hardly makes up for all the harm and pain he caused to so many others. imo

My bolding....

Besides his children, his family and himself, who else did he hurt?

[Lainey]

My bolding....

Besides his children, his family and himself, who else did he hurt?

I think this is true of 95% of all people that die and were not saints. He who is without sin cast the first stone .....and that is NONE of us.

RIP Michael. I still have trouble believing he's gone.

[Firehead11]

The three boys and their families and that's just the ones we know about.
A lot of pain rippled out from those three alone. jmo

If you are talking about the trial and the accusations, we are to talk about that on the under old cases or something like that.

Frankly, I never believe that anything happened but it is your choice to believe that it did.

Have a good day.

[retiredcop]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1209793/As-Michael-Jacksons-doctor-Conrad-Murray-faces-homicide-trial-evidence-grows-drug-addled-singer-blame.html


As Michael Jackson's doctor Conrad Murray faces a homicide trial, evidence grows the drug-addled singer was the only one to blame

[Cindylee]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1209793/As-Michael-Jacksons-doctor-Conrad-Murray-faces-homicide-trial-evidence-grows-drug-addled-singer-blame.html


As Michael Jackson's doctor Conrad Murray faces a homicide trial, evidence grows the drug-addled singer was the only one to blame


My goodness, this writer David Jones, sure didn't think much of MJ. Or, his family. :ohmy:

[daniel green]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1209793/As-Michael-Jacksons-doctor-Conrad-Murray-faces-homicide-trial-evidence-grows-drug-addled-singer-blame.html


As Michael Jackson's doctor Conrad Murray faces a homicide trial, evidence grows the drug-addled singer was the only one to blame

Thx for this piece! VERY well-written. The author has spoken to the security guy who called 911, eh? Interesting.

From the link:

Then there is Jackson himself. Thumbing through the police affidavit, it becomes clear that he had been a hardened and devious junkie for many years. His body resembled a pin-cushion with needle-marks everywhere — even between his toes — and he seems to have known as much about chemicals as choreography.

He described the anaesthetic he used nightly to put him to sleep as his ‘milk’. He had also invented an entire cast of aliases to moonwalk into his local chemist’s and collect his heavy-duty prescriptions. Fernand Diaz, Peter Madonie, Omar Arnold and Josephine Baker were just some of the bizarre names he used. This being the case, is it really right to persecute one doctor for his death? As Miranda Sevcik, the spokesman for Dr Murray’s legal team, told me this week: ‘He is being made the convenient scapegoat here. Unfortunately, there’s only one person to blame for Michael Jackson’s death — and he is no longer with us.’

I quite agree with the author about the Jackson family, as well.

[daniel green]

A drug addict? Perhaps. He hired at $150,000.00 per month a doctor, who's job was to MONITOR him, so that he would NOT die. snipped.

No perhaps about it. And MJ hired not only Murray to put him into a drug-induced coma every night, but hired all those other docs--including TWO anesthesiologists--to provide him with drugs.

From the link RC just provided:

Jackson’s medical retinue was sufficient to staff a cottage hospital, and other names mentioned in the damning court document — seen in its entirety by the Daily Mail — include his dermatologist, Dr Arnold Klein, long-time Jackson family GP Dr Allan Metzger, plastic surgeon Dr Larry Koplin, anaesthetists Dr David Adams and Dr Randy Rosen, and nurse practitioner Cherilyn Lee. At this stage, it is not clear which — if any — of these elite medical gurus (all of whom fiercely deny any wrongdoing) might join Murray in the dock. Yet the investigating detectives clearly suspect they have something to hide. They have applied for permission to search their offices, computers, professional records, and even their exclusive homes and sleek limousines, in an attempt to ascertain whether they illegally supplied Jackson with prescription drugs, and thereby ‘contributed to his death’.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1209793/As-Michael-Jacksons-doctor-Conrad-Murray-faces-homicide-trial-evidence-grows-drug-addled-singer-blame.html#ixzz0PszrPldt

[daniel green]

A bunch of Michael Jackson's stuff was moved out of his Las Vegas home yesterday -- and judging by previous collections of MJ's property, there was probably a lot of interesting items in those boxes. We're told Jackson's property is being moved to a storage facility in Los Angeles -- the best of which may be used for Michael's upcoming memorabilia tour.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/01/michael-jackson-cleans-house/#ixzz0Pt2U8DN7

[daniel green]

Do you have a link from a credible publication? by chance?

We know those docs and Lee were searched, as per the affidavit. So that is absolutely credible. As is every other word in the piece.

[daniel green]

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b142117_jackson_pal_arnie_klein_willing_take.html

[Cindylee]

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b142117_jackson_pal_arnie_klein_willing_take.html

A quote from your article:

""I think that he would like to be able to, as he promised his friend, do what he can to see that the children were making the best decisions.

"He would like to have input in respect to educational decisions for them, that's something that was particularly important to Michael Jackson.""
*******

Dr. Kline would be the last person I would want teaching my children about making good decisions.....or have any input towards their education. He pretty much just threw his education out the window. And for what?

[daniel green]

snipped

Dr. Kline would be the last person I would want teaching my children about making good decisions.....or have any input towards their education. He pretty much just threw his education out the window. And for what?

I thought the very same thing, Cindy.

[aproudmom]

It would be very easy to test to see if any was in his system have we heard he had it in his system? IIRC no...so not a big deal to me Fire and we don't know who's it was anyway..I walk away often believe me:wink:

[aproudmom]

I thought the very same thing, Cindy.

he gives me the creeps for some reason...I wouldn't get botox let alone want my kids around him....heck I watched MJ walk out his back door 3 times a week guess he did not give him any meds in there:sneaky:

[daniel green]

Michael Jackson was requesting midazolam, which often goes by the brand name Versed, in New York City-area hospitals as early as 1994, according to a physician who was asked, but declined, to accommodate Jackson’s request. According to the coroner’s report released Aug. 29, Jackson’s cause of death was “acute propofol intoxication” along with “benzodiazepine effect.” Midazolam is one of the benzodiazepines found in Jackson’s body, and is typically used in hospital settings for procedural sedation. Like propofol, it is not recommended to be used as a sleep aid. “Late one night we received a call from one of Michael’s people, saying Michael couldn’t sleep, and he’d like a Versed drip,” said the physician. “They were calling ahead to make sure he could be admitted directly to the hospital, and not go through the emergency room. “He was told no, he couldn’t just be given a Versed drip to go to sleep — that’s not an accepted medical use for Versed, and even if he was on it, he’d have to be hooked up to a cardiac monitor. He wanted to be left alone in the room after the drip was started.”


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32634419/ns/entertainment-gossip/

And, of course, we know that Versed vials were found at NL what, in 2003?

[aproudmom]

We know those docs and Lee were searched, as per the affidavit. So that is absolutely credible. As is every other word in the piece.

:ohmy:that would be a first for them....

[aproudmom]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32634419/ns/entertainment-gossip/

And, of course, we know that Versed vials were found at NL what, in 2003?

thanks for the link daniel I am going to call you king of the links before to long you must have a alert for any MJ news...:biggrin: poor thing must have really just wanted to sleep to go to those extremes..very sad IMO

[retiredcop]

What he wanted most in life is to bring joy to all people, to bring healing to the earth. So..no, he did not get everything he wanted. His generosity was returned with ridicule, and lies.

He was a "rich kid" because he worked from the age 5 forward, and earned every penny he made.

Like others with his financial status, he entrusted accountants, managers and the like, to handle financial matters. Yet he really could trust no one to do their job, without exploiting him in some way.

A drug addict? Perhaps. He hired at $150,000.00 per month a doctor, who's job was to MONITOR him, so that he would NOT die. Not only did the doctor directly end the life of MJ, he failed in his duty to do no harm, and if what he reported in true, to help MJ get weaned off drugs, although he wasn't qualified to do the job, and failed to bring in people who were.

And finally.. it is evident what some people wish to remember about him. Some people refuse to acknowledge all the good he did, and people he helped. I do think he deserves recognition for all that, rather than remembered as a drug addict.

By the way.. drug addiction is a disease, and people don't really choose to become addicts.

imo...of course.

The only thing he will be remembered for as time passes is his drug addictions and the other many weird things he did. Maybe his music a little, but even that will fade out.

To hire a doctor to monitor oneself so he wouldn't die of his addictions is the weirdest of all. A doctor can not assure anyone who has been an addict as long as he was that it will not do him in one day. All he could do was tell him what would surely happen.

Addicts do chose to be addicts and chose to stay addicts.

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

thanks for the link daniel I am going to call you king of the links before to long you must have a alert for any MJ news...:biggrin: poor thing must have really just wanted to sleep to go to those extremes..very sad IMO

I have no idea what links are credible anymore. Jackson isn't here to defend himself with all these people now popping out and making a statement.

[daniel green]

thanks for the link daniel I am going to call you king of the links before to long you must have a alert for any MJ news snipped

No problem. No, I don't have an alert, just look at places I normally read every day.

That being induced into a coma via Versed back in 94 is shocking, really. That is a long time ago. Then as we know it was found at NL in 03, it was an ongoing thing. And there it was in his system when he died.

[Firehead11]

The only thing he will be remembered for as time passes is his drug addictions and the other many weird things he did. Maybe his music a little, but even that will fade out.

To hire a doctor to monitor oneself so he wouldn't die of his addictions is the weirdest of all. A doctor can not assure anyone who has been an addict as long as he was that it will not do him in one day. All he could do was tell him what would surely happen.

Addicts do chose to be addicts and chose to stay addicts.

in my opinion

I would like you to tell my aunt that. I believe that she would strongly disagree with you about choosing to become an addict.

[retiredcop]

I would like you to tell my aunt that. I believe that she would strongly disagree with you about choosing to become an addict.

I don't believe, through no fault of his own, Mr Jackson became an addict because of the burn on his head. I believe he liked the medication and chose to keep on keeping on. I believe that was his choice.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

The only thing he will be remembered for as time passes is his drug addictions and the other many weird things he did. Maybe his music a little, but even that will fade out.

To hire a doctor to monitor oneself so he wouldn't die of his addictions is the weirdest of all. A doctor can not assure anyone who has been an addict as long as he was that it will not do him in one day. All he could do was tell him what would surely happen.

Addicts do chose to be addicts and chose to stay addicts.

in my opinion

Maybe his music a little?:biggrin:

Whether anyone likes it or not Michael Jackson will be known forever as the greatest entertainer in the world. No other entertainer has a fan base as large as he does. No matter which country it is in...he could pack thousands upon thousands in just to get a glimpse of him.

That is why there has been tributes all across world celebrating his birthday. His music/dance will live on forever.

imo

[ABC]

Maybe his music a little?:biggrin:

Whether anyone likes it or not Michael Jackson will be known forever as the greatest entertainer in the world. No other entertainer has a fan base as large as he does. No matter which country it is in...he could pack thousands upon thousands in just to get a glimpse of him.

That is why there has been tributes all across world celebrating his birthday. His music/dance will live on forever.

imo
Breeze, I disagree. Although the Stones are my very favorite, I think the Beattles, Elvis and the Rolling Stones are in the top five with Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr. MOO

[GentleBreeze]

Breeze, I disagree. Although the Stones are my very favorite, I think the Beatles, Elvis and the Rolling Stones are in the top five with Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr. MOO

Imo it isn't who is our favorite. It is who has the biggest fan base all across the world and no one can touch MJ.

The ones you have listed may be the top 5 in America or in the Beatles case in the UK/USA but they still do not have the draw or appeal that MJ did and will continue to do. Fans worldwide wait in anticipation for any new music released. He will only become more popular if possible.

[GentleBreeze]

Michael Jackson Cleans House
Posted Sep 1st 2009 12:05PM by TMZ Staff

A bunch of Michael Jackson's stuff was moved out of his Las Vegas home yesterday -- and judging by previous collections of MJ's property, there was probably a lot of interesting items in those boxes.


Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/01/michael-jackson-cleans-house/#ixzz0PtWcWo9f

:confused:So Michael owned a home in Las Vegas?

imo

[daniel green]

Breeze, I disagree. Although the Stones are my very favorite, I think the Beattles, Elvis and the Rolling Stones are in the top five with Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr. MOO

The Stones are my favorite of all time, as well.

Artists by reputed sales

500 million to 1 billion records

The Beatles United Kingdom 1960–1970 Rock / Pop rock 1 billion

Elvis Presley United States 1953–1977 Rock and Roll / Pop 1 billion


300 million to 499 million records


ABBA Sweden 1972–1982 Pop / Disco 370 million

Michael Jackson United States 1964–2009 Pop / R&B / Rock 350 million

Nana Mouskouri Greece 1958–2008 Pop folk 300 million

Queen United Kingdom 1970–present Hard rock / Pop rock 300 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists

[daniel green]

Does anyone know what level of education did MJ have? Did he even graduate from High School?

No, he did not. He was pulled out of school by his parents while still in elementary school.

[daniel green]

snipped

:confused:So Michael owned a home in Las Vegas?

imo

He rented one.

[ABC]

True..Young listeners are lucky to have heard of Elvis, much less Sinatra, or Sammy. Sinatra is also known for his questionable behavior in Las Vegas, and his blue eyes.
Questionable behavior? Well, no one ever put him on trial for his "doings" and although a weight gain, Frank looked like an older version of his young self, as did the other four mentioned. It is my understanding that Elvis outsells any other Entertainer, ever.

[daniel green]

True..Young listeners are lucky to have heard of Elvis, much less Sinatra, or Sammy. Sinatra is also known for his questionable behavior in Las Vegas, and his blue eyes.

Just as they are not likely to have heard much of MJ.

Times change, kids are born and grow up, older fans fade.

There has been a sea change in the world of music and entertainment since the 90's when MJ was popular.

I did not realize that when MJ was last at the MTV Music Award on a birthday, he was introduced by Britney Spears and MJ thought he was getting some sort of award rather than being told Happy B'day and he "accepted" for something he claimed was singer of the millenium. It made for a very uncomfortable, embarrasing moment. I saw it on an E compilation show that is running this week.

[daniel green]

snipped It is my understanding that Elvis outsells any other Entertainer, ever.

He comes second, after the Beatles and just ahead of ABBA, as per the link I just posted.

[daniel green]

Michael Jackson never attended High School. No matter is someone claims to have seen him in a cap and gown, MJ was pulled out of school by his parents when he was in elementary school to perform.

[ABC]

He comes second, after the Beatles and just ahead of ABBA, as per the link I just posted.
I typed too fast and just saw your post. Thanks for the breakdown. I know Satisfaction is in the top five best songs but think a Beattle tune is first. When we saw Mama Mia, which is a take off on the ABBA songs, most of the folk in the audience were in their twenties and thirties, standing up singing and dancing to "Dancing Queen". As were We.
OMG, what a sad story about the "Birthday" award.

[daniel green]

Eminem has officially become the highest selling rapper in the past ten years, outselling such names as Jay-Z and Nelly. Beyond rappers, Eminem's combined totals even outnumber The Beatles. In the last decade, Eminem has sold 31,127,000 albums starting in 1999 with "The Slim Shady Lp." The Beatles came in 2nd place with just over 22.5 million albums sold.

http://www.rapbasement.com/eminem/060109-eminem-has-become-the-past-decades-highest-selling-artist-beating-out-the-beatles-and-jay-z.html

[Firehead11]

Michael Jackson never attended High School. No matter is someone claims to have seen him in a cap and gown, MJ was pulled out of school by his parents when he was in elementary school to perform.

Why not supply a link to where you got that information?

[daniel green]

http://www.moopy.org.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=51130

[GentleBreeze]

I am basing my opinion on what my kids, and their peers appear to know. They definitely know who MJ is. The other two.. not so much.

I noticed at the MJ birthday celebration held by Spike Lee a lot of them there dressed like MJ were a younger group. In their 20s.

And if you watch the tributes a lot of the ones that came out were young.

By July 15th 2009 he had already sold 9 million CDs since his death.

imo

[daniel green]

All of MJ's bios show that he attended school till he was 11. He was out touring and singing with his family from a very early age.

[daniel green]

Artists by reputed sales

500 million to 1 billion records

The Beatles United Kingdom 1960–1970 Rock / Pop rock 1 billion

Elvis Presley United States 1953–1977 Rock and Roll / Pop 1 billion


300 million to 499 million records


ABBA Sweden 1972–1982 Pop / Disco 370 million

Michael Jackson United States 1964–2009 Pop / R&B / Rock 350 million

Nana Mouskouri Greece 1958–2008 Pop folk 300 million

Queen United Kingdom 1970–present Hard rock / Pop rock 300 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists

[daniel green]

Wrong again!


Michael Jackson's Thriller is the best selling album of all time; though sales figures for the album vary, the album is cited as selling as many as 110 million copies worldwide.

snipped...

Uh huh. And what does that mean in reference to how many albums/cd's combined other artists have sold? :confused:

Having the best selling album of all time does not make one the biggest selling artist of all time.:huh:

[daniel green]

Its not true, therefore more difficult to find a link that won't kill our computers, if any at all.

Right. Why don't you find a link of any name of any school MJ allegedly graduated from?

[daniel green]

Are you saying that ABBA has outsold MJ?
:lol:

Oh, yes. Absolutely.

[GentleBreeze]

No link to support your position. I will just go ahead and believe my eyes. He had some form of schooling whether you chose to believe it or not. In any case he was a genius, and knew stuff that no school could ever teach him.

What does it matter anyway? Is someone trying to say he couldnt get a well paying profession due to his lack of education?:w00t::biggrin:

[daniel green]

Another poster upthread asked the question, GB. I merely answered it.

[daniel green]

The 10 best-selling music acts of all time based on millions of albums & singles sold: (Source: Recording Industry Association of America)

The Beatles – 191 million
Elvis Presley – 168.5 million
Garth Brooks – 128.5 million
Led Zeppelin – 112 million
The Eagles – 101.5 million
Elton John – 91 million
Billy Joel – 83.5 million
Barbra Streisand – 78 million
Madonna – 78 million
Mariah Carey – 76.5 million
Pink Floyd – 75.5 million

http://www.musicramble.com/best-selling-music-artists-of-all-time/

[daniel green]

snipped

Michael Jackson received an honorary high school diploma from Roosevelt High School in Gary, IN in 2003

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_Michael_Jackson_graduate_high_school

Ah, so that is where the picture you saw was from.

As I said, he never attended nor graduated from any school past elementary. I had seen that link, but did not post it as it's the sketchy wikianswers.

[Cindylee]

This is the only link I found about MJ's schooling so far.

http://www.seeing-stars.com/schools/GardnerSchool.shtml

Here is another:

http://www.mjsite.com/pages/3.html

[GentleBreeze]

Artists by reputed sales



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_music_artists


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson

Michael Joseph Jackson (August 29, 1958 – June 25, 2009), known as the "King of Pop", was an American musician and one of the most commercially successful entertainers of all time. His unique contributions to music and dance, along with a highly publicized personal life, made him a prominent figure in popular culture for four decades.

He started a solo career in 1971, having made his debut in 1964 as a member of The Jackson 5. His 1982 album Thriller remains the best-selling album of all time, with four others — Off the Wall (1979), Bad (1987), Dangerous (1991), and HIStory (1995) — among the best selling. He popularized several intricate dance moves, such as the robot and the moonwalk. He is widely credited with having transformed the music video from a promotional tool into an art form, with videos for his songs "Billie Jean", "Beat It" and "Thriller" making him the first African American artist to amass a strong crossover following on MTV, and has influenced scores of music artists.

Twice inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, his other achievements feature multiple Guinness World Records — including the "Most Successful Entertainer of All Time" — 13 Grammy Awards, 17 number one singles (including the four as a member of the Jackson 5), and estimated sales between 350 million and 750 million records worldwide.[2] He was also a notable philanthropist and humanitarian who donated and raised millions of dollars through support of 39 charities and his own Heal the World Foundation

[daniel green]

snipped

Here is another:

http://www.mjsite.com/pages/3.html

Such a cute picture!

Michael Jackson's school picture (possibly 1st grade) He went to public school while he lived in Indiana with his family. He did try to to go to a public school when he first moved to California, but it didn't last long

[daniel green]

Therefore he is a high school graduate... snipped.

That is absolutely false.

[daniel green]

[url]snipped

Twice inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, his other achievements feature multiple Guinness World Records — including the "Most Successful Entertainer of All Time" — 13 Grammy Awards, 17 number one singles (including the four as a member of the Jackson 5), and estimated sales between 350 million and 750 million records worldwide.[2]

Again, just simple math, folks. Having the best selling album of all time does not make one the best selling artist of all time. :huh:

[GentleBreeze]

Well.. is that all? hahahaha

Well no, it could be way more than that. I just read an article that said they did not keep up with the sales worldwide back then that much. In recent years they do.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Well.. I think most people know how successful he was, and some people are fixated on tearing him down any way they can think of, no matter how ridiculous.

Did you ever know he had a house in Las Vegas?:confused: I know he stayed with his children in a exquisite casino out there for awhile but I never knew he had a home there.

DG said it was rented but I have never heard of that either.

If that was the front of the gate though it sure looked like a snazzy place. (TMZ photo) Could this be where Joe lives?

imo

[Cindylee]

Gee no DG. I saw it on tv when they were broadcasting Jackson family home movies. :rolleyes:

I read just now, but I don't know how good the source is so I won't link it, but, it was saying he did go to those two prep schools that you mentioned, but didn't graduate from either. He would have graduated in 1977. But, with all of the information on MJ, I think it is strange that there is hardly anything about his education. One said after he left elementary school, they had tutors. :shrug:

I am changing my mind about putting the link, cause I got in trouble once for not putting one.
But, it is from one of those types that anyone can put up information.
So, take it or leave it. :)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_Michael_Jackson_graduate_high_school

[GentleBreeze]

When he was shopping with Bashir, Bashir asked him if he had enough room at Neverland for all the stuff he was buying, and Michael told him it was for one of his other houses.

Oh thanks. I remember him saying that now and I had heard in the past he had other properties.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

A genius he was not. He had some schooling however he didn't graduate from High School.

"Michael Jackson attended both Montclair Prep and Cal Prep high schools in the San Fernando Valley... though he was primarily taught by private tutors. Though he did not officially graduate from either school his year of graduation would have been 1977."

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_Michael_Jackson_graduate_high_school

One doesn't have to finish school in order to be a genius and imo MJ was a musical genius.

imo

[tiptop]

Michael Jackson received an honorary high school diploma from Roosevelt High School in Gary, IN in 2003
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_M...te_high_school

I think he was a musical genius, and many others think so too.

In his genre, I think he was a genius as well. But honorary degrees are given to people who do not complete their formal education. Michael did not complete HS and therefore did not graduate. Wonder how many Joe Sixpacks out there working have honorary HS diplomas?

[daniel green]

What are your credentials to determine that MJ was a musical Genius beisides in your own mind, and who are the others that think so too?? An Honorary High School Diploma and $5.00 will get you a Latte at Starbucks. It sure won't get you into a College or University.

Sure enough. I think it is very sad to get an "honorary" hs degree. :sad:

[daniel green]

A musical Genius knows how to read and write music. He could not. snipped

A musical genious is Mozart, Bethoven.

I think it is ridiculous to call any pop star a musical genious.

[flipflop]

Jackson's Death Certificate: 'Injection by Another'

Posted Sep 1st 2009 7:00PM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson's death certificate has been amended now that the L.A. County Coroner believe his death was the result of a homicide -- so the document now reads "injection by another" as Michael's fatal injury.

The Coroner announced Michael's cause of death last week as "acute Propofol intoxication." The Coroner's report also said the presence of a number of anxiety and insomnia medications in Michael's system contributed to his death -- which is called a "benzodiazepine effect."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PtxDFo55

[ABC]

His son also received a degree without completing his required credits.
Bill Cosby's poor son has been dead for many years and murdered. If the son received an honorary degree from his University, after his death, it was a nice gesture.:sad::sad::sad:

[daniel green]

Bill Cosby's poor son has been dead for many years and murdered. If the son received an honorary degree from his University, after his death, it was a nice gesture.:sad::sad::sad:

And in one of those weird coincidences, Ennis Cosby's (may he RIP) killer attended the same grade school as MJ did.

[daniel green]

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/jun/25/reports-michael-jackson-dies-after-heart-attack/

The house is Vegas was not owned by MJ.

I cannot find any indication that he had any other houses other than NL.

[daniel green]

snipped

If that was the front of the gate though it sure looked like a snazzy place. (TMZ photo) Could this be where Joe lives?

imo

That house is owned by the Prince of Brunai, with whom MJ subsequently had a huge falling out.

[daniel green]

The actual death certificate document:

http://www.etonline.com/documents/et_mjackson_ammended_deathcertificate_090901.pdf

[flipflop]

Paris visited the trendy Amp Salon at the Palms Resort and Casino accompanied by a bodyguard and her tutors 'Sister Rose' and 'Aunt Emily' in August.

"After the stylist had cut off about two inches of her hair Sister Rose scrapped the clippings-up and put them in a clear plastic baggy," Alicia Jacobs, a KVBC reporter who was at the salon during Paris' visit, told RadarOnline.com. “She did the same thing after the final cut was over and I realized it must have been to stop somebody from stealing them for any DNA testing or to maybe sell on EBay.”

“She was very polite and was joking that she had been ‘dancing in the rain’ after a shower had suddenly hit Las Vegas," Jacobs remembered. "At first she got a green manicure, to match the limos at the Palms."


http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/exclusive-hair-salon-protects-michael-jacksons-daughter-dna-probe

[GentleBreeze]

That house is owned by the Prince of Brunai, with whom MJ subsequently had a huge falling out.

Had a falling out with and he still let him keep loads of memorabilia there?

I still see nothing that shows this home was being rented by MJ or even who it belongs to.

Do you have a photo of the home so the front area can be compared to the TMZ photo?

Why would TMZ say the memorabilia was taken from MJs home if they knew it did not belong to him?

imo

[flipflop]

Had a falling out with and he still let him keep loads of memorabilia there?

I still see nothing that shows this home was being rented by MJ or even who it belongs to.

Do you have a photo of the home so the front area can be compared to the TMZ photo?

Why would TMZ say the memorabilia was taken from MJs home if they knew it did not belong to him?

imo


I found this.

Michael Jackson, 48, has moved into a house in Las Vegas and plans to live there while working on a deal to do a live show on the Strip, a la Celine Dion, a source tells Us Weekly.

A veil-clad Jacko arrived at McCarron airport's private hangar on Saturday afternoon, eager to take up residence in his new pad. The gated Spanish-style mansion (featured above) is located in a custom-home community on the city's west side, and features a classic stucco red tile roof.

Las Vegas entertainer Jeff Beacher, creator of Beacher's Madhouse at the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino, confirms Jackson's arrival in Vegas.

"He wants to make his comeback here,” the LV entertainer tells Us. "Jackson wants this to be his new Neverland."


http://www.usmagazine.com/i_us_i_exclusive_michael_jacksons_new_house

[retiredcop]

Had a falling out with and he still let him keep loads of memorabilia there?

I still see nothing that shows this home was being rented by MJ or even who it belongs to.

Do you have a photo of the home so the front area can be compared to the TMZ photo?

Why would TMZ say the memorabilia was taken from MJs home if they knew it did not belong to him?

imo

Because he had been staying there. Either for free or renting it.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

Do you have a photo of the home so the front area can be compared to the TMZ photo?

snipped

It's right there in the Vegas link I posted upthread.

As to why MJ stuff was still there, no idea. The falling out with the Prince of Brunai is well known.

[GentleBreeze]

I found this.

Michael Jackson, 48, has moved into a house in Las Vegas and plans to live there while working on a deal to do a live show on the Strip, a la Celine Dion, a source tells Us Weekly.

A veil-clad Jacko arrived at McCarron airport's private hangar on Saturday afternoon, eager to take up residence in his new pad. The gated Spanish-style mansion (featured above) is located in a custom-home community on the city's west side, and features a classic stucco red tile roof.

Las Vegas entertainer Jeff Beacher, creator of Beacher's Madhouse at the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino, confirms Jackson's arrival in Vegas.

"He wants to make his comeback here,” the LV entertainer tells Us. "Jackson wants this to be his new Neverland."


http://www.usmagazine.com/i_us_i_exclusive_michael_jacksons_new_house

Thank you.

Would he still have this home? That was back in 2006.



imo

[retiredcop]

Did he also default in rental payments in the LV home, like you claim he did in the LA home?

He was probably mooching off his friend, the prince, and staying for there for free.

in my opinion

[tiptop]

He was probably mooching off his friend, the prince, and staying for there for free.

in my opinion

It's possible. He did seem to have a problem paying his debts in the latter years.

[GentleBreeze]

Jackson's Death Certificate: 'Injection by Another'

Posted Sep 1st 2009 7:00PM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson's death certificate has been amended now that the L.A. County Coroner believe his death was the result of a homicide -- so the document now reads "injection by another" as Michael's fatal injury.

The Coroner announced Michael's cause of death last week as "acute Propofol intoxication." The Coroner's report also said the presence of a number of anxiety and insomnia medications in Michael's system contributed to his death -- which is called a "benzodiazepine effect."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PtxDFo55

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/jackson-died-from-lethal-levels-of-propofol/


Interestingly, according to the warrant, Dr. Murray refused to sign the death certificate at the UCLA Medical Center.

UPDATE: If Dr. Murray is charged with a crime, there's a statement in the affidavit that could be evidence of a consciousness of guilt. The document also states both "UCLA doctors and L.A. Fire Dept. paramedics stated that Dr. Murray had only disclosed that he had given the medication Lorazepam [Ativan] to Jackson prior to his medical emergency." Dr. Murray did not disclose that he had given Jackson Propofol.

[daniel green]

Jackson used some of these assets as collateral to borrow money after his album sales peaked out in the 1980s. In 1995, he merged ATV with Sony (SNE)'s library of songs and sold Sony music publishing rights for $95 million. Then in 2001, he used his half of the ATV assets as collateral to secure $200 million in loans from Bank of America (BAC). The problem was that his appetite for spending exceeded his cash inflows -- to the tune of $20 million to $30 million each year.

But the Michael Jackson magic enabled him to attract wealthy benefactors. Abdulla bin Hamad Al Khalifa, the second son of the king of Bahrain, took Jackson under his wing, giving him a palace and showering him with money in hopes that Jackson would cut an album and write an autobiography. But Al Khalifa was disappointed and sued Jackson for $7 million.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-leaves-1-billion-in-assets-500-million-in-unp/

If MJ owned any other house other than the portion of NL he still owned, I sure cannot find it.

[flipflop]

EXCLUSIVE: LAPD Interview Michael Jackson WitnessesEXCLUSIVE: LAPD Interview Michael Jackson Witnesses

Posted on Sep 01, 2009 @ 09:03PM

Two key witnesses in the Michael Jackson investigation have finally been interviewed by the LAPD, RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned.

Alberto Alvarez, the security guard that made the 911 call, and Michael Amir, Michael Jackson's chief of staff, were interviewed Monday at the office of their attorney, Carl Douglas.

The two men were interviewed separately, and the interview was audio taped. A well place law enforcement source tells RadarOnline.com, "The information that was gained from both men was extremely helpful to the investigation. Both men were very thoughtful and honest with their answers, and both of their stories were consistent. Total time the two were interviewed was about 2 1/2 hours."

Two detectives from the LAPD Robbery Homicide Division conducted the interview, and the insider says, "Investigators were very impressed and thankful that neither men have spoken with the media, nor will they. There are no plans at this point for a follow-up interview, but if necessary, both will gladly comply. Alvarez and Amir's only interest was telling investigators what they knew."

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/exclusive-lapd-interview-michael-jackson-witnesses

[GentleBreeze]

He was probably mooching off his friend, the prince, and staying for there for free.

in my opinion

Do you have a link showing this was the prince's home?

imo

[GentleBreeze]

EXCLUSIVE: LAPD Interview Michael Jackson WitnessesEXCLUSIVE: LAPD Interview Michael Jackson Witnesses

Posted on Sep 01, 2009 @ 09:03PM

Two key witnesses in the Michael Jackson investigation have finally been interviewed by the LAPD, RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned.

Alberto Alvarez, the security guard that made the 911 call, and Michael Amir, Michael Jackson's chief of staff, were interviewed Monday at the office of their attorney, Carl Douglas.

The two men were interviewed separately, and the interview was audio taped. A well place law enforcement source tells RadarOnline.com, "The information that was gained from both men was extremely helpful to the investigation. Both men were very thoughtful and honest with their answers, and both of their stories were consistent. Total time the two were interviewed was about 2 1/2 hours."

Two detectives from the LAPD Robbery Homicide Division conducted the interview, and the insider says, "Investigators were very impressed and thankful that neither men have spoken with the media, nor will they. There are no plans at this point for a follow-up interview, but if necessary, both will gladly comply. Alvarez and Amir's only interest was telling investigators what they knew."

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/exclusive-lapd-interview-michael-jackson-witnesses

That is great news. Little by little they are making progress.

imo

[daniel green]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124484259109711019.html

Excellent article re the debts vs income and financials at death.

[tiptop]

EXCLUSIVE: LAPD Interview Michael Jackson WitnessesEXCLUSIVE: LAPD Interview Michael Jackson Witnesses

Posted on Sep 01, 2009 @ 09:03PM

Two key witnesses in the Michael Jackson investigation have finally been interviewed by the LAPD, RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned.

Alberto Alvarez, the security guard that made the 911 call, and Michael Amir, Michael Jackson's chief of staff, were interviewed Monday at the office of their attorney, Carl Douglas.

The two men were interviewed separately, and the interview was audio taped. A well place law enforcement source tells RadarOnline.com, "The information that was gained from both men was extremely helpful to the investigation. Both men were very thoughtful and honest with their answers, and both of their stories were consistent. Total time the two were interviewed was about 2 1/2 hours."

Two detectives from the LAPD Robbery Homicide Division conducted the interview, and the insider says, "Investigators were very impressed and thankful that neither men have spoken with the media, nor will they. There are no plans at this point for a follow-up interview, but if necessary, both will gladly comply. Alvarez and Amir's only interest was telling investigators what they knew."

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/exclusive-lapd-interview-michael-jackson-witnesses

Seems odd to me they waited so long to interview these two. Someone posted a link about it at some point - how the LAPD was short of help and didnt have enough people to do all that needed to be done. Or some crazy BS like that. Hmmmm, its almost as if they were waiting for them to go to the media before they interviewed them. We all know how info paid by paper and TV tabloids is shunned; I wonder what these two had to say?

[daniel green]

Thank you.

Would he still have this home? That was back in 2006.



imo

GB--if you look at the links themselves, and the articles you will see that it's the Prince of Barain's house.

[tiptop]

He also had a problem with the person he hired to take care of those business type tasks, as reflected in the tape recording, where he says he's afraid and has no contact with his lawyers or accountants, and that he had no idea how much was in his accounts. He was probably robbed blind, all the while thinking his debts were being paid.

I hear you, but I have a hard time believing that anyone could allow this type thing to happen. Although I know it does. How on earth could you work your whole life creating an empire then not know what you were worth or how much you had? It boggles my clear mind. But, perhaps Michael's mind was on other things......

[GentleBreeze]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124484259109711019.html

Excellent article re the debts vs income and financial at death.

We have know for quite a while he was about 400K in debt.

I think his estate will easily satisfy those debts and have a vast amount left over.

It will also be interesting once the accountants thoroughly go through his accounts and will determine if there has been some underhanded dealings done by others over the years behind MJs back.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

GB--if you look at the links themselves, and the articles you will see that it's the Prince of Barain's house.

OK but is this the same house TMZ is claiming was MJs home?

imo

[retiredcop]

Do you have a link showing this was the prince's home?

imo

The link has been posted. You must have missed it.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Since the article was published prior to his death, I'm guessing that the record sales post death was not figured into their calculations.

Of course not and that figure is increasing everyday.

Nor was the AGE/Sony deal for 60 million.

This has just begun........that estate will continually have money flowing into it.

That is why it can take up to 7 to 10 years to even have the estate closed and finalized. Even after the children are grown they will be receiving more money.

Plus I have read that MJ was receiving about 85 million yearly and now with him deceased and no longer spending more money will go into the estate.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

The link has been posted. You must have missed it.

in my opinion

I know this was the one in 2006. I am talking about the one that TMZ is saying is MJs home in Las Vegas. I thought he had a falling out with the prince so why would it still be considered MJs home today?

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I believe it was 400 million. But I also believe it has probably been wiped out with the money made since his murder.

OOPS! :tonguewag:

I made a boo boo.......meant 400 million.

Sorry, my bad.

imo

[Cindylee]

I think he probably did own property, who knows where. On one of the specials this weekend they said he had been advised to invest in something that would be there forever, like the Beatles catalog. And so the story goes...

One thing I don't understand is MJ is the victim of homicide, leaving 3 small children behind, and the discussion is about attending school, and "rented" homes, as if any of that matters now. But it certainly is a fitting discussion for an entertainment thread.

imo...of course.

But, really Just, until there is more information about his death like the autopsy report, or someone is arrested, there really isn't much more to say about it, except he is dead. We have been all over the Propofol the other possible drugs, the who's and the where's. If you have something to add specifically to the death that hasn't been hashed over, I would love to hear it. :smile: Right now, I think people are just talking. :shrug:

[daniel green]

I know this was the one in 2006. I am talking about the one that TMZ is saying is MJs home in Las Vegas. I thought he had a falling out with the prince so why would it still be considered MJs home today?

imo

It's the SAME house, GB, forpetesakes. :rolleyes: The links/pics are upthread, several of them. Just like there are a zillion articles referring to MJ's house in LA, the one in which he died, it was a rental house.

I just read the forensic financial testimony to make sure I am not missing a house somewhere, and other than NL (which he only owned a portion of and highly mortgaged), MJ owned no other real estate.

[retiredcop]

If I recall correctly you had some concerns that Michael might have injected himself with the lethal drug propofol, and that Murray was innocent after all. Your concerns have been addressed in todays report that the lethal injection was at "the hands of another". That rules out the idea that MJ accidentally or intentionally killed himself with the deadly drug propofol.

You do not recall correctly. We've known this information since it was released by the coroner anyway. I think he might have taken some other medication like pills when the doctor didn't know it.

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

EXCLUSIVE: LAPD Interview Michael Jackson WitnessesEXCLUSIVE: LAPD Interview Michael Jackson Witnesses

Posted on Sep 01, 2009 @ 09:03PM

Two key witnesses in the Michael Jackson investigation have finally been interviewed by the LAPD, RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned.

Alberto Alvarez, the security guard that made the 911 call, and Michael Amir, Michael Jackson's chief of staff, were interviewed Monday at the office of their attorney, Carl Douglas.

The two men were interviewed separately, and the interview was audio taped. A well place law enforcement source tells RadarOnline.com, "The information that was gained from both men was extremely helpful to the investigation. Both men were very thoughtful and honest with their answers, and both of their stories were consistent. Total time the two were interviewed was about 2 1/2 hours."

Two detectives from the LAPD Robbery Homicide Division conducted the interview, and the insider says, "Investigators were very impressed and thankful that neither men have spoken with the media, nor will they. There are no plans at this point for a follow-up interview, but if necessary, both will gladly comply. Alvarez and Amir's only interest was telling investigators what they knew."

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/exclusive-lapd-interview-michael-jackson-witnesses

We heard about these guys last week. Why did it take so long for LAPD to talk to them? They were calling LAPD, and LAPD wasn't giving them the time of day. :confused:

[Cindylee]

He also had a problem with the person he hired to take care of those business type tasks, as reflected in the tape recording, where he says he's afraid and has no contact with his lawyers or accountants, and that he had no idea how much was in his accounts. He was probably robbed blind, all the while thinking his debts were being paid.

I think that is very possible. I don't think he had a clue of his finances.

[daniel green]

Time and again, however, Jackson found a way to wring cash out of high-value assets, borrowing tens of millions at a time or leaning on wealthy friends for advice, if not for money. Al Khalifa, 33, took Jackson under his wing after his acquittal, moving him to the small Gulf estate and showering him with money. In his lawsuit, Al Khalifa claimed he gave Jackson millions of dollars to help shore up his finances, cut an album, write an autobiography and subsidize his lifestyle -- including more than $300,000 for a "motivational guru." The lawsuit was settled last year for an undisclosed amount. Neither the album nor book was ever produced.

Another wealthy benefactor came to Jackson's aid last year as he faced the prospect of losing Neverland in a public auction. Billionaire Thomas Barrack, chairman and CEO of Los Angeles-based real estate investment firm Colony Capital LLC, agreed to bail out the singer and set up a joint venture with Jackson that took ownership of the vast estate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/26/michael-jacksons-death-ki_n_221303.html

[GentleBreeze]

You do not recall correctly. We've known this information since it was released by the coroner anyway. I think he might have taken some other medication like pills when the doctor didn't know it.

in my opinion

Well the coroner is saying the injection given to him by another is what caused his death.

imo

[Cindylee]

We have know for quite a while he was about 400K in debt.

I think his estate will easily satisfy those debts and have a vast amount left over.

It will also be interesting once the accountants thoroughly go through his accounts and will determine if there has been some underhanded dealings done by others over the years behind MJs back.

imo

Not 400K......It was said, 400 to 500 Million.

Opps, catching up. I see this was already brought up. Sorry.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/26/michael-jacksons-death-ki_n_221303.html

Nice that Barrack bought the note and then went into a joint venture with MJ.

[daniel green]

Musically, Jackson had become directionless, DJ Paul Gambaccini argues. "Everything suggests it's not just his real fans who bought the act, it appears as if he bought the act: he believed that he was the King of Pop, he believed he was still a major star even though in today's marketplace he did not even have a presence. He seemed clueless about what to do next."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jun/29/michael-jackson-finances-debt-neverland

[GentleBreeze]

Not 400K......It was said, 400 to 500 Million.

Opps, catching up. I see this was already brought up. Sorry.

That is okay. I expected it.:laugh:

[retiredcop]

I know this was the one in 2006. I am talking about the one that TMZ is saying is MJs home in Las Vegas. I thought he had a falling out with the prince so why would it still be considered MJs home today?

imo

He put 5 million with Tohme to buy a mansion in LV when he returned from the tour and had enough money. Do you remember that? If he already owned a home he wouldn't have done that.

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

My simple mind just thinks that the amended death cert. is more revealing, relevant, and discussion worthy, than his high school diploma, or lack thereof, or his status as a renter or owner. But thats just me.

Carry on.:smile:

Except that is not new, we already heard what the coroner had to say.

The injection is new, but we knew that, or at least I think we knew, he couldn't give himself Propofol.

[daniel green]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31853848/ns/business-tax_tactics/

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jun/29/michael-jackson-finances-debt-neverland

You can believe this trashloid if you wish but since I have read such articles that Grace was to say this and Grace was to say that and she said she did not say those things, I think I will refrain from buying hogwash. "Earlier this year" Grace wasnt even with MJ and the kids anymore. Tohme had fired her at the end of last year.

The US media is bad enough without looking to the UK for credible informaiton.

I wonder who the UK media will say Blanket's bio dad is tomorrow.:wink:

imo

[daniel green]

He put 5 million with Tohme to buy a mansion in LV when he returned from the tour and had enough money. Do you remember that? If he already owned a home he wouldn't have done that.

in my opinion

Indeed, RetiredCop.

There really is nothing under MJ and real estate other than the portion he controlled of NL.

[daniel green]

You can believe this trashloid if you wish but since I have read such articles that Grace was to say this and Grace was to say that and she said she did not say those things, I think I will refrain from buying hogwash.

snipped

Excuse me? :confused: The Guardian is THE newspaper of record in the UK.

[GentleBreeze]

He put 5 million with Tohme to buy a mansion in LV when he returned from the tour and had enough money. Do you remember that? If he already owned a home he wouldn't have done that.

in my opinion

I wouldn't believe Tohme Tohme if I saw his tongue being notarized.

imo

[daniel green]

Jackson, 50, grossed about $1 billion in a career that spanned more than 40 years. But his legendary reputation for profligate spending and his huge legal bills could leave little for his three children and other beneficiaries, considering that creditors' claims could range to $400 million or more.

If the liabilities exceeded the assets, "you would have a bankrupt estate, and a court would divide up the assets among creditors, much like you would have in a bankruptcy proceeding," says San Francisco attorney Max Gutierrez Jr.

Jackson's estate is also subject to federal inheritance taxes of up to 45%, depending on what was placed in tax-limiting personal or family trusts. A trust arrangement also would keep much of the estate disbursement private and out of probate court but wouldn't prevent public scrutiny from legal challenges by creditors and other claimants.

"It wouldn't surprise me if there were other people making claims," says Roy Kozupsky of New York law firm Smith, Gambrell & Russell.

Moreover, if it's determined that Jackson's permanent residence was in California, his estate could be subject to millions of dollars in state probate fees, which are assessed on the value of the estate before debt.

Even the valuation of Jackson's most valuable asset — his stake in a music catalog whose publishing rights includes Beatles songs — could be subject to protracted debate. Jackson snapped up the catalog for $47.5 million in a 1985 deal that had provided him millions in annual income, and he pocketed $95 million from selling Sony a 50% stake in 2005.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2009-06-28-jackson-estate_N.htm

[GentleBreeze]

Excuse me? :confused: The Guardian is THE newspaper of record in the UK.

And? Tohme said that Grace was fired by him in December.

Are you saying they are above reproach. I dont find one media outlet above reproach. Who owns this newspaper? Please dont tell me it is Ruppert Murdoch.

imo

[Cindylee]

I actually learned something new last night. I was talking to my ER nurse friend, and we were talking about the Propofol. And I said that Dr. Murray didn't have the tubing equipment to resuscitate Mj if he had had a problem. She told me you don't need the tube. The bag and mask were usually enough if you catch it in time. She said in the ER they use the drug all the time, and if the breathing slows, or the oxygen thing starts dropping, they bag them for a minute and all is well. She said the only time you would have to tube someone is if the heart had stopped. So, take that as you will. I was wrong to think the bag thing wouldn't have worked at all. Nurses online???????

[daniel green]

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b142245_michael_jacksons_possessions_leaving.html

[Cindylee]

You can believe this trashloid if you wish but since I have read such articles that Grace was to say this and Grace was to say that and she said she did not say those things, I think I will refrain from buying hogwash. "Earlier this year" Grace wasnt even with MJ and the kids anymore. Tohme had fired her at the end of last year.

The US media is bad enough without looking to the UK for credible informaiton.

I wonder who the UK media will say Blanket's bio dad is tomorrow.:wink:

imo

I think they are back to Prince and Paris. :laugh:

[daniel green]

snipped

Are you saying they are above reproach. I dont find one media outlet above reproach. Who owns this newspaper? Please dont tell me it is Ruppert Murdoch.

imo

Your allegation that the Guardian is a tabloid, or, as you said, a trashoid, is just absolutely incorrect.

Newspaper of record is a term that may refer either to any publicly available newspaper that has been authorized by a government to publish public or legal notices, or any major newspaper that has a large circulation and whose editorial and news-gathering functions are considered professional and typically authoritative. The first type of newspaper of record (or newspaper of public record) is often formally defined by a statute or other official action of a governing body. Such a newspaper is supposed to be available to the public, and publication of notices in that newspaper is considered sufficient to comply with legal requirements for public notice.

The second type of "newspaper of record" is not defined by any formal criteria. The use of the term implies that a newspaper is a reliable institution that publishes trustworthy descriptions of events, but this assessment may be disputed. Major newspapers of record may be expected to have independent editorial policies, and to publish statements of opinion that are distinct from those of their proprietor or their government. They are more likely than other newspapers to be sold abroad and to be cited in scholarly publications

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_of_record

Newspapers focused on serious journalism

Daily
The Guardian (est. 1821) — owned by the Scott Trust

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom

[daniel green]

I actually learned something new last night. I was talking to my ER nurse friend, and we were talking about the Propofol. And I said that Dr. Murray didn't have the tubing equipment to resuscitate Mj if he had had a problem. She told me you don't need the tube. The bag and mask were usually enough if you catch it in time. She said in the ER they use the drug all the time, and if the breathing slows, or the oxygen thing starts dropping, they bag them for a minute and all is well. She said the only time you would have to tube someone is if the heart had stopped. So, take that as you will. I was wrong to think the bag thing wouldn't have worked at all. Nurses online???????

How interesting! There goes all the techical know-how and mssg board pronouncements, eh?

[daniel green]

Mr. Jackson’s estate has been valued at several hundred million dollars. It contains some big assets, including a 50 percent stake in Sony/ATV, a music publishing partnership that includes the rights to the Beatles catalog; Mr. Jackson’s own song catalog; and Neverland Ranch. But there also are large debts, because of Mr. Jackson’s free-spending ways. While Mr. Jackson’s portion of Sony/ATV was worth an estimated $500 million at the time of his death, he had about $300 million of debt against it held by Barclays.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/business/media/13jackson.html

[daniel green]

Cindy--other than mssg board expertise on all things medical, there was never any actual news or credible reports about "tubing" being needed with diprivan, right?

[daniel green]

The lavish lifestyle was made possible in part by a $200 million loan secured by his stake in the Beatles catalog. Jackson owned the music in a joint venture with Sony Corp known as Sony/ATV. Jackson refinanced those loans in 2006 in a bid to stave off insolvency.

In addition, Jackson last November had to hand over the title on his Neverland estate in California to a company made up of himself and Los Angeles-based real estate investment trust Colony Capital LLC, the firm that holds his $23 million loan on the property. Colony Capital has been sprucing up the ranch and planned to sell it, according to the Journal. Colony Chief Executive Tom Barrack told the newspaper last month the estate could fetch $70 million to $80 million, or more if Jackson's career were revitalized.

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUKTRE55P0Q520090626

[Cindylee]

In fairness to MJ, my husband is a great salesman, and entrepreneur, but he isn't great with money. That is why we have an office manager, and accountants, and me... :laugh: But, we also trust our employees, and keep an eye on things, which I don't think MJ did.....until he didn't trust Thome. But, who knows what Thome did before he was fired.

[tiptop]

Or he should have stayed in school longer. MJ lived in a fantasy world where common sense was thrown out the window. It was quite obvious he had no sense of what he was doing with his spending habits. I guess he thought he had so much money, he couldn't spend it all in his lifetime. Well, in retrospect he was right, except he can't spend it now can he? The vultures picking his bones will. imo

All I have to go on is what I read about Michael. And in the beginning I think he did an OK job of keeping his finances in order. IMO his drug use precluded his common sense for money from the early 1990s on. Given his experience with Joe Jackson and others out to use him for money, I cannot imagine after all those years he would take a back-seat to his finances. Something kept him from it, and IMO it was drugs. The vultures may have swooped in; but Michael left the gate open.

[Cindylee]

How interesting! There goes all the techical know-how and mssg board pronouncements, eh?

I told her that Murray had oxygen but I wasn't sure if he had the bag. I told her in the picture that there was one on the bed, but I didn't know if it was there, or if the Medics left it. She said that you would have to have the bag to force the oxygen in.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.limelife.com/blog-entry/Michael-Jacksons-Estate-Worth-A-Billion-Dollars/13323.html

Michael Jackson's Estate Worth 'A Billion Dollars'
In Celebs by SplashNews , on Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 6:06 PM (PDT)

Courtesy of SplashNews.com.


Michael Jackson's estate could be worth as much as a a billion US dollars over the next 20 years, it has been claimed. The Thriller singer's legacy is expected to rake in cash from record sales and royalties, and from licensing his image for a massive range of memorabilia.

[GentleBreeze]

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2009/08/michael_jacksons_200_million_2.html

Michael Jackson’s $200 Million Year

The Times reports today that in the 48 days since the King of Pop's death, his estate has made $100 million — with another $100 million likely before the end of 2009 — which will almost certainly set an unbeatable record for single-year earnings for an expired celebrity. Where's it all coming from? Album sales account for a small fraction, but it's mostly from the recent judge-approved deal for his upcoming 3-D movie and the tasteful sale of his likeness for use on commemorative coins and school supplies. Even before one considers the annual $50 million to $100 million his stake in the Sony/ATV catalogue will generate, a proposed MJ-memorabilia museum in Las Vegas, or the hypothetical eventual sale of his entire estate (easily worth hundreds of millions), his family should have no trouble covering his debts, and can soon begin the expected battle over their fair share of his assets (and their possible concert tour!). But the L.A. Times says a new Jackson song will be released this fall with his movie, so at least people creeped out by the legal wrangling, school supplies, and commemorative coins will have that to look forward to.

[Cindylee]

Cindy--other than mssg board expertise on all things medical, there was never any actual news or credible reports about "tubing" being needed with diprivan, right?

I don't think so. When I first talked to her about the diprovan, she said the patient needs to be monitored and checked every 2 to 3 minutes. She said before they give diprovan the respiratory therapist has to be present. She said assisted breathing must be available and I think I assumed.....I know what that means........that meant the tube. My bad.

[daniel green]

Is the burial supposed to be tomorrow?

[daniel green]

http://www.limelife.com/blog-entry/Michael-Jacksons-Estate-Worth-A-Billion-Dollars/13323.html

snipped[/B]

Oh, goodness. And you claimed the Guardian was a trashoid. :blushing:

I think I will stay with the excellent financial reporting of the WSJ, the NYT and Forbes, as I have linked upthread.

[Cindylee]

Is the burial supposed to be tomorrow? Thursday I think. And Al Sharpton will be there.

[flipflop]

Jackson Funeral Goes to Court

Posted Sep 1st 2009 10:10PM by TMZ Staff

TMZ has learned Katherine Jackson has filed legal papers asking the judge in the Jackson probate case to have the estate pay for the funeral.

Informed sources tell us lawyers for the estate will neither support nor oppose the motion -- but rather they will leave it to the judge.

A hearing is set for tomorrow morning at 9:30.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PuZIsH5b

[tiptop]

When is the concert-rehearsal movie coming out? They best not wait too long. Interest in the U.S. will die down first. They may have to release overseas first if they dont get a move on. Commerative coins and school supplies? School supplies?????? Wow, I just dont see that taking off. But I hope I am wrong, for the sake of the kids.

[daniel green]

I don't think so. When I first talked to her about the diprovan, she said the patient needs to be monitored and checked every 2 to 3 minutes. She said before they give diprovan the respiratory therapist has to be present. She said assisted breathing must be available and I think I assumed.....I know what that means........that meant the tube. My bad.

Thx! Oh, well, so much for mssg board nursing and doctoring, I reckon. Assisted breathing means via bag or intubation.

Oh, all the pages and threads worth of wrong info re the "tubing." :blushing:

[daniel green]

snipped Commerative coins and school supplies? School supplies?????? Wow, I just dont see that taking off. .

Ya know, I had the same reaction when I read that.

[daniel green]

TMZ has learned Katherine Jackson has filed legal papers asking the judge in the Jackson probate case to have the estate pay for the funeral.

Informed sources tell us lawyers for the estate will neither support nor oppose the motion -- but rather they will leave it to the judge.

snipped

Oh, my goodness.

BTW, TMZ says that KJ is asking for the estate to pay for the burial.
TMZ has learned Katherine Jackson has filed legal papers asking the judge in the Jackson probate case to have the estate pay for the burial.

[GentleBreeze]

Jackson Funeral Goes to Court

Posted Sep 1st 2009 10:10PM by TMZ Staff

TMZ has learned Katherine Jackson has filed legal papers asking the judge in the Jackson probate case to have the estate pay for the funeral.

Informed sources tell us lawyers for the estate will neither support nor oppose the motion -- but rather they will leave it to the judge.

A hearing is set for tomorrow morning at 9:30.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PuZIsH5b

My father stipulated that all of his funeral expenses were to be paid out of his estate.

But these people are going to get millions because of MJ so the least they could do is pay for his funeral.

The Judge will most likely approve it though since the administrators aren't contesting.

imo

[daniel green]

You can rest assured that MJ isn't the one who made that decision. He had advisors that suggested that he bid on that Beatles catalog.

And MJ has gotten so many loans on it he only half of it (iirc) at the time of his death, and much of that was mortgaged many times over.

[Cindylee]

Ok something has been brought to my attention that needs explaining. My friend works in a small ER, not a trauma center. Their use of Popofol is for quick.....10/15 minute use, or less. To set a bone, stitches in kids, that sort of thing. It would be very different if you were to use it for hours. IMO

[tiptop]

You can rest assured that MJ isn't the one who made that decision. He had advisors that suggested that he bid on that Beatles catalog.

Perhaps. Allegedly Mike talked to Paul McCartney many years ago and Paul told him about the prospect of publishing and how much money was to be made. True? I have no clue. But apparently Paul wasnt too happy when Mike bought the Beatles stuff. It's been said Paul was just too cheap to make the purchase then got upset with Michael when he did it. Who knows.........

[GentleBreeze]

When is the concert-rehearsal movie coming out? They best not wait too long. Interest in the U.S. will die down first. They may have to release overseas first if they dont get a move on. Commemorative coins and school supplies? School supplies?????? Wow, I just dont see that taking off. But I hope I am wrong, for the sake of the kids.

I would think they would release it in the UK first. It will be played around the world imo.

Nothing would surprise me. I have never known until lately how so many young kids liked MJ and I think it would do great in other countries and big towns like LA, NY or Atlanta.

imo

[Cindylee]

I think its pretty common that ones final expenses are paid by the estate of the deceased. Perhaps it is the amount that brings them to court. After all the County of LA intends to charge the Jackson's what... 150,000.00 to provide security to the residents of the city, in order for the family to assure a private service for their murdered loved one.

Which they wouldn't have had to do if they just had kept the private funeral private. IMO

[tiptop]

Ya know, I had the same reaction when I read that.

It sounds like they are pushing things way too far with the money-making schemes. Sounds like desperation to me. IMO there is money to be made now and possibly in the future. But it must be packaged right. And this doesnt sound right to me.

[GentleBreeze]

I thought i read yesterday something about the authorities coming down on all the people making a fortune off of MJ's name and likeness, while illegally peddling their pirated goods on some street corner.

The administrators brought that up to the Judge.

And they are right. Millions of knock off MJ items are being sold and have been starting the day after he died. From hats/caps, t-shirts-sequined glove, and CDs etc.

Our flea markets are filled with MJ stuff and they are selling like hotcakes.

No way they can stop all of it but I know they will stop the ones they know about.

imo

[Cindylee]

I would think they would release it in the UK first. It will be played around the world imo.

Nothing would surprise me. I have never known until lately how so many young kids liked MJ and I think it would do great in other countries and big towns like LA, NY or Atlanta.

imo


I am curious about something. Without getting into details, does anyone know how the British press treated MJ during the T***L? I am wondering if it was positive or negative press.

[tiptop]

I would think they would release it in the UK first. It will be played around the world imo.

Nothing would surprise me. I have never known until lately how so many young kids liked MJ and I think it would do great in other countries and big towns like LA, NY or Atlanta.

imo

Yes, that makes sense to me. UK first then moving west. Maybe certain cities in the U.S. in between Euro areas.

[GentleBreeze]

It sounds like they are pushing things way too far with the money-making schemes. Sounds like desperation to me. IMO there is money to be made now and possibly in the future. But it must be packaged right. And this doesn't sound right to me.

They would be remiss if they didn't want to market MJ right away. I think they know exactly what they are doing and will only get better at it with more and more ideas on how to increase the estate.

When Elvis died immediately everyone wanted to buy anything Elvis, including me lol but as the months went by it settled down some.

imo

[Cindylee]

Not a chance with the paparazzi.

Do you think that the Paparazzi is still camped out at the Encino home? Probably, but I don't know. :shrug: Even so, the paparazzi would maybe follow them, but there would be no chance for fans. Now people have had a lot of time to make plans to show up.

[GentleBreeze]

I am curious about something. Without getting into details, does anyone know how the British press treated MJ during the T***L? I am wondering if it was positive or negative press.

I don't think the UK press treats anyone in a positive light. Positive is not what sells newspapers but negativity does.

imo

[tiptop]

I am curious about something. Without getting into details, does anyone know how the British press treated MJ during the T***L? I am wondering if it was positive or negative press.

I was living in London in the mid 1990s --- after the first trial. Granted that was a few years after the 1993 trial but I heard nothing bad about him. In the press or from chatting with locals.

I think it was easier for people outside the U.S. to have a gentler attitude about the whole thing. It wasnt really "in their face" like it was here.

[GentleBreeze]

Do you think that the Paparazzi is still camped out at the Encino home? Probably, but I don't know. :shrug: Even so, the paparazzi would maybe follow them, but there would be no chance for fans. Now people have had a lot of time to make plans to show up.

THey probably are. I couldnt believe the paparazzi was right there when the movers were moving the memborialia items today from the LV home but there they were.:ohmy:

I would go nuts just sitting there watching a place hoping something happened.

imo

[daniel green]

Cindy--I do not follow the UK tabs, but the regular press, such as the Guardian, for instance, followed it much the same way as the US mainstream press did.

The taped conversation of MJ with the anti-Semitic remarks, though, got some bad press.

[daniel green]

THey probably are. I couldnt believe the paparazzi was right there when the movers were moving the memborialia items today from the LV home but there they were.:ohmy:

snipped

You know how that works, right? That the movers or even the Jacksons call TMZ or whomever and they send a photog, right? Not that there are photogs at all those locations.

[tiptop]

They would be remiss if they didn't want to market MJ right away. I think they know exactly what they are doing and will only get better at it with more and more ideas on how to increase the estate.

When Elvis died immediately everyone wanted to buy anything Elvis, including me lol but as the months went by it settled down some.

imo

In the U.S., there is still that stigma (as evidenced on these boards) of him being guilty of molestation. I dont feel that is such an issue abroad. Elvis did not carry this controversy like Michael did. Yes, there was his alleged drug abuse but that goes deeper with Michael. And time can also allow people to think and remember. And perhaps not remember Michael in a good light. We shall see.....

[Cindylee]

Cindy--I do not follow the UK tabs, but the regular press, such as the Guardian, for instance, followed it much the same way as the US mainstream press did.

The taped conversation of MJ with the anti-Semitic remarks, though, got some bad press.

I guess I am trying to figure out.... and as I have said a lot, I didn't follow that part of MJ's life, well really didn't follow him at all..... but why the difference in the reaction of the US as apposed to other parts of the world? The US pretty much dumped him from what I have heard, the rest didn't.

[Cindylee]

You know how that works, right? That the movers or even the Jacksons call TMZ or whomever and they send a photog, right? Not that there are photogs at all those locations.

Do you think so, really? I don't have a clue how they know where people are going to be. Other than going to the places where they hang out.
Growing up in the LA area, we would see movies being made all the time. And go into Westwood and see "stars". But, I think that was before the Paps were everywhere. I know I am getting old. :laugh:

[Cindylee]

In the U.S., there is still that stigma (as evidenced on these boards) of him being guilty of molestation. I dont feel that is such an issue abroad. Elvis did not carry this controversy like Michael did. Yes, there was his alleged drug abuse but that goes deeper with Michael. And time can also allow people to think and remember. And perhaps not remember Michael in a good light. We shall see.....

Don't forget now there is instant "news". I think it makes a difference in everything.

[daniel green]

Do you think so, really? I don't have a clue how they know where people are going to be. Other than going to the places where they hang out.
snipped:

Yeah, I know so. I watched a fascinating documentary last year about those photogs. And that's how they work.

My SIL is a photo-journalist for a network, far different, and even he/his network get calls and text about such photo ops.

[Cindylee]

Yup, I can. Once he reached the age of majority as you put it, he has the resourses to get the best education money could buy.

That is true, and to protect yourself from people like Thome, you must educate yourself.

[daniel green]

snipped The US pretty much dumped him from what I have heard, the rest didn't.

Cindy, I really do not believe there was a much different reaction in other parts of the world as in the US.

[Cindylee]

You can choose school. He chose to become the most famous person on the planet, loved by millions, and helped by millions. And he was quite successful at it.

I think you may want to edit this one. The most famous person on the planet????? I don't think so.

[Cindylee]

Cindy, I really do not believe there was a much different reaction in other parts of the world as in the US.

No? I really don't know anyone who was following this at the time, so I have no idea. I would have thought the British press would have been worse than here, they seem a bit more sensational, but it seems MJ felt very welcome in Brittan. :confused:

[Cindylee]

No.. I believe, as do many others, that he was and is the most famous person on the planet. I didn't just make it up, its been reported over and over.

Are you talking entertainer or person in general?

[daniel green]

This is a very interesting article, particularly in retrospect.



May 31, 2009


The world's bestselling male pop artist was hunkered down with his three children in a dumpy housing compound in an older section of town. At 49, he was awash in nearly $400 million of debt and so frail that he greeted visitors in a wheelchair. The rich international friends who offered him refuge after his 2005 acquittal on molestation charges had fallen away. His Santa Barbara ranch, Neverland, was about to be sold at public auction. Compounding his money difficulties are a revolving door of litigious advisors and hangers-on. Jackson has run through 11 managers since 1990, according to DiLeo. At least 19 people -- financial advisors, managers, lawyers, a pornography producer and even a Bahraini sheik -- have taken Jackson to court, accusing him of failing to pay bills or backing out of deals. He settled many of the suits. Currently, he is facing civil claims by a former publicist, a concert promoter and the writer-director of his "Thriller" video, John Landis.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-michael-jackson31-2009may31,0,1441957.story

[daniel green]

No? I really don't know anyone who was following this at the time, so I have no idea. I would have thought the British press would have been worse than here, they seem a bit more sensational, but it seems MJ felt very welcome in Brittan. :confused:

I do not think there was any difference in the type/amount of coverage or the general reaction, Cindy.

[GentleBreeze]

That is true, and to protect yourself from people like Thome, you must educate yourself.

I think that had more to do with MJs personality. He said he was fearful of Tohme but yet he did fire him even though I think he was sort of scared to do so.

Here are some famous high school and college drop outs.

college drop-outs

1) Bill Gates-founder of Microsoft; billionaire
2) Michael Dell-founder of Dell Computers; billionaire
3) Steve Jobs-co-founder of Apple Computers; billionaire
4) Steve Wozniak-co-founder of Apple Computers
5) David Geffen-co-founder of Dreamworks, SKG
6) Larry Ellison-founder of the database company Oracle; billionaire
7) William Hanna-of the cartoon producers Hanna-Barbera
8) Sheldon Adelson-real estate and casino owner; billionaire
9) Jack Taylor-Enterprise Rent-A-Car; billionaire

The more I've continued to look into this, it's nearly the same story with most industrialized nations around the world. There are a lot of billionaires that dropped out of high school and college for various reasons, from Li Ka-Shing in Asia (net worth of nearly $12 billion) to Roman Abramovich (richest man in Russia at $18.2 billion) to Amancio Ortega (Spain's richest man at $14.8 billion). There is a pattern to all of this, and it's interesting to me. For all the famous people out there, there are thousands of successful people that aren't as well known but have similar circumstances.

I think the message you can take away from all these businessmen is that you have your success in your hands. The lack of a formal education does not have to be an excuse not to succeed in life unless you want it to be. In my case, I better not let my college degree be an excuse not to succeed!

http://www.helium.com/items/794842-famous-college-drop-outs-who-became-successful-businessmen

[GentleBreeze]

From your posted link:

so frail that he greeted visitors in a wheelchair

Another reason to look at a conspiracy to commit murder against MJ. Someone is lying.

This part is interesting too.

"You are talking about a guy who could make $500 million a year if he puts his mind to it," Barrack said recently. "There are very few individual artists who are multibillion-dollar businesses. And he is one."

Amazing.

[Cindylee]

He was well loved throughout the world, both alive and deceased. His donated money, time and music, helped to feed and care for many people, in all countries. "We are the World" is just one example. "Heal the World" is another.

I am not saying he wasn't known though out the world. But, most famous??? Not in my opinion.

We are talking most famous right? Not popular right? I would say Mozart, Beethoven, Einstein, The Pope, The Queen, Princess Di, The Dalai Lama, President Obama, President Bush, Madonna (both), JFK, I could go on. As for the infamous, the list is very long. But, as far as being the MOST famous on the planet. I still say I don't think so.

[daniel green]

hmmm.. Bill Gates. Imagine that.

Gates attended public elementary school and the private Lakeside School. There, he discovered his interest in software and began programming computers at age 13. In 1973, Gates entered Harvard University as a freshman, where he lived down the hall from Steve Ballmer, now Microsoft's chief executive officer. While at Harvard, Gates developed a version of the programming language BASIC for the first microcomputer - the MITS Altair. In his junior year, Gates left Harvard to devote his energies to Microsoft, a company he had begun in 1975 with his childhood friend Paul Allen. Guided by a belief that the computer would be a valuable tool on every office desktop and in every home, they began developing software for personal computers. Gates' foresight and his vision for personal computing have been central to the success of Microsoft and the software industry.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/billg/bio.mspx

OK, seriously, nobody is actually going to compare Gates/Allen/Wozniak, etc, with MJ, are they? :blushing::blushing::blushing:

[daniel green]

snipped
And yes, the article did say HIGH SCHOOL drop outs too!:rolleyes: But of course you conveniently omitted that.

The article, which you did not use quotation marks for, btw, might have mentioned them, but those men listed in the article???? Even the article is titled:

"Famous college drop-outs who became successful businessmen"

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/billg/bio.mspx

OK, seriously, nobody is actually going to compare Gates/Allen/Wozniak, etc, with MJ, are they?

Yes, it does not take an education to be very successful.

They are powerful executives who started their own companies that were huge successes.

IIRC, Ari Onassis had very little formal education.

[GentleBreeze]

The article, which you did not use quotation marks for, btw, might have mentioned them, but those men listed in the article???? Even the article is titled:

"Famous college drop-outs who became successful businessmen"

Here ya go, pick which one you want..the list is long.:rolleyes:

http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts.htm


The First Rule Of Education Should Be:
"Do No Harm"

Shaun Kerry, M.D.
Diplomate, American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology
The present day educational system is damaging to young people. Evidence of this harm is being presented from psychological, neurological,

sociological, statistical, and common-sense perspectives.

There are many notable people, who did not complete their formal education, but accomplished great things. Bill Gates, founder of the software giant Microsoft, and the wealthiest person in the world, dropped out of Harvard in his freshman year. His incredible rise to prominence in the computer industry is testimony to the fact that formal education is not synonymous with success. In fact, his phenomenal knowledge of computers was not acquired in the structured environment of the classroom. Instead, Gates pursued this interest after school by studying the BASIC language from a manual with his friend Paul Allen, helping a local company debug its computers, and designing computer programs.
Many will dismiss Gates as an exceptional individual, who may have dropped out of college, but excelled in high school before being accepted at Harvard. There are, however, many other people who have reached the highest echelons of their profession without even completing elementary school, let alone high school. The following list offers a small sample of the thousands of individuals who have achieved tremendous success in their lives without completing their formal education:

• Albert Einstein: Nobel Prize-winning physicist; "Time" magazine's "Man of the Century" (20th century) (after dropping out of high school, he studied on his own and passed the entrance exam on his second try to the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology)

• John D. Rockefeller Sr.: Self-made billionaire American businessman-philanthropist; co-founder of "The Standard Oil Company;" history's first recorded billionaire (dropped out of high school two months before graduation; took business courses for ten weeks at Folsom Mercantile College [a chain business school])

• Henry Ford: Self-made multimillionaire American businessman; assembly-line auto manufacturing pioneer; founder of the "Ford Motor Company"

• Walt Disney: Oscar-winning American film/TV producer; animation and theme park pioneer; self-made multimillionaire founder and spokesperson of "The Walt Disney Studios/Company; "Presidential Medal of Freedom recipient; Congressional Gold Medal recipient; French Legion of Honor admittee/Medal recipient (received honorary high-school diploma from hometown high school at age 58)

• Abraham Lincoln: 16th President of the United States; (little formal education - Lincoln himself estimated approximately one year; home schooling/life experience; later earned a law degree through self study of books that he borrowed from friends)

• Carl Sandburg: Pulitzer Prize-winning American author (little formal education; later passed entrance exam to Lombard College and graduated)

list continues

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I hardly think so Daniel. And to top it off, I don't recall that anyone on that list mutilated their faces and were ever reported to be addicted to propofol. And I do believe that collectively or individually those on that list have donated to charity far more that MJ ever did. I am reasonably sure the Bill Gates Foundation has.

Well I would certainly think and hope so. Bill Gates is one of the richest men in the world.

But no other pop artist contributed as much as MJ did.

[daniel green]

I don't think so. When I first talked to her about the diprovan, she said the patient needs to be monitored and checked every 2 to 3 minutes. She said before they give diprovan the respiratory therapist has to be present. She said assisted breathing must be available and I think I assumed.....I know what that means........that meant the tube. My bad.

I meant to ask earlier, Cindy--did you tell her that MJ had been monitored with a pulse-ox?

[Cindylee]

Well I would certainly think and hope so. Bill Gates is one of the richest men in the world.

But no other pop artist contributed as much as MJ did.

But, it has been said for a couple month now that MJ gave more than anyone else. :confused:

[daniel green]

I hardly think so Daniel. And to top it off, I don't recall that anyone on that list mutilated their faces and were ever reported to be addicted to propofol. And I do believe that collectively or individually those on that list have donated to charity far more that MJ ever did. I am reasonably sure the Bill Gates Foundation has.

That is the absolute truth, LoneWolf. I am just astonished as to any kind of comparison.

[Cindylee]

I meant to ask earlier, Cindy--did you tell her that MJ had been monitored with a pulse-ox?

Yes, I did last night. I didn't know that before. But, she said he should have also been hooked up to a heart/ blood pressure monitor.

[daniel green]

snipped

But no other pop artist contributed as much as MJ did.

That is just not true.

Right off the top of my head, Stevie Wonder and his amazing contributions. Many, many, many others. Say, Elton John, Springsteen, etc.

[daniel green]

Yes, I did last night. I didn't know that before. But, she said he should have also been hooked up to a heart/ blood pressure monitor.

That makes sense. Maybe Murray was taking his blood pressure, too?

Bottom line, it is crazy being put into a drug-induced coma in a home for 10++++ yrs. With Versed apparently back to 1994.

[Cindylee]

That is just not true.

Right off the top of my head, Stevie Wonder and his amazing contributions. Many, many, many others. Say, Elton John, Springsteen, etc.

Oh, I meant to add Elton to my list of most famous.

[Cindylee]

That makes sense. Maybe Murray was taking his blood pressure, too?

I don't think he had that machine that does the heart and blood pressure. I would guess no. But, I really don't have any idea. No one has mentioned it.

[Cindylee]

That makes sense. Maybe Murray was taking his blood pressure, too?

Bottom line, it is crazy being put into a drug-induced coma in a home for 10++++ yrs. With Versed apparently back to 1994.

Daniel, the whole thing is crazy. No one should be on those types of drugs. I think MJ, and the Dr.'s were crazy.

[daniel green]

I guess there was no reason to move the bag off the bed to the patients face, since the patient was already dead, and no amount of oxygen on the planet was going to restore his life.

And yet we know from the picture of MJ in the ambulance that he was indeed intubated and had the mask on en route to hospital.

[GentleBreeze]

But, it has been said for a couple month now that MJ gave more than anyone else. :confused:

Not really. He holds the record for contributions given to charities by a pop artist.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

That is just not true.

Right off the top of my head, Stevie Wonder and his amazing contributions. Many, many, many others. Say, Elton John, Springsteen, etc.

Who much of their own money did they give?

imo

[daniel green]

I am not saying he wasn't known though out the world. But, most famous??? Not in my opinion.

We are talking most famous right? Not popular right? I would say Mozart, Beethoven, Einstein, The Pope, The Queen, Princess Di, The Dalai Lama, President Obama, President Bush, Madonna (both), JFK, I could go on. As for the infamous, the list is very long. But, as far as being the MOST famous on the planet. I still say I don't think so.

Who else could it be? One friend suggest Muhammad Ali, another Princess Diana, and a third said Bill Clinton. Surely all are global brands with enormous reach and broad appeal. But all fall short of the man-meets-the-moment frenzy unleashed by Obama.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dee-dee-myers/is-obama-the-most-famous_b_161613.html


The Holy Father, Pope John Paul, II
Mother Theresa
Queen Elizabeth, II
Nelson Mandela
Oprah

The list is long

[GentleBreeze]

That is the absolute truth, LoneWolf. I am just astonished as to any kind of comparison.

Oh really?

Perhaps you missed the link I put up thread about those who did not have a high school education. The list is quite lengthy.

I highly doubt these outstanding men, including presidents, were dummies just because they did not have a formal education.:rolleyes:

Here is the lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng list again.


http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts.htm

[daniel green]

Not really. He holds the record for contributions given to charities by a pop artist.

imo

No, for the most charities. He was trying to break that record. Nobody knows the amounts.

[daniel green]

Daniel, the whole thing is crazy. No one should be on those types of drugs. I think MJ, and the Dr.'s were crazy.

For real. It is simply insane.

[GentleBreeze]

No, for the most charities. He was trying to break that record. Nobody knows the amounts.

Oh dont say "nobody" knows the amount. I imagine someone does know and it has never been disputed by any other pop artist that they gave more than MJ did.

imo

[daniel green]

It is unusual to find celebrities who will publicly declare how much they have personally given, since many donors prefer to remain anonymous to maintain their privacy and to deter other outstretched hands. But Ms. Palmer said she was surprised that, given the exceptional wealth that so many celebrities have amassed, only one well-known member of the entertainment industry — Oprah Winfrey — actually gave enough to make The Chronicle’s list of “America’s Most Generous Donors” in 2006. On the list for the fourth year, Ms. Winfrey was No. 36, pledging and paying out $58.3 million last year. Warren E. Buffett, the investor, topped the list, pledging $43.5 billion. The Chronicle recently ran an article on its Web site about a survey conducted by the Nationwide Mutual Insurance Company that named Jerry Lewis the most effective celebrity for charitable causes; Ms. Winfrey came in second.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/10/business/media/10philanthropy.html

[Unperson1984]

Anything new today?

:smile:

[daniel green]

Not much about the world of celebrity philanthropy surprises Stephanie Sandler anymore. For the past nine years, Sandler, senior vice president at the Giving Back Fund, a philanthropic consulting and management firm in Los Angeles, has helped celebrities set up their own foundations. Along the way, she's had first-hand experience in the not-always-truthful world of celebrity giving. Take the well-known entertainer who was supposedly known as being especially generous. The problem was, there was no public record of it, and the celebrity didn't return calls for clarification. "It tends to be that if the people who are putting their names out there as being philanthropic really are, they get back to you," she says. :blushing::blushing::blushing:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/24/oprah-philanthropy-celebrity-biz-media-cz_dkr_1124charitycelebs.html

Oprah, not surprisingly, comes in first on both lists. The Queen of Daytime Television donated $50 million last year, five times more than any other celebrity and nearly 20% of the $275 million she earned last year.

Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt came in next for giving $8.4 million to their Jolie-Pitt Foundation. The couple donated approximately 25% of the $34million they earned last year, with much of it going to the Make It Right Project, which plans to build 150 green homes in New Orleans' Ninth Ward.

Michael Jordan followed suit for donating $5 million, or 11% of the $45 million he brought in last year, to Chicago's Hales Franciscan High School, a historically African-American Catholic prep school.

[ABC]

Oh really?

Perhaps you missed the link I put up thread about those who did not have a high school education. The list is quite lengthy.

I highly doubt these outstanding men, including presidents, were dummies just because they did not have a formal education.:rolleyes:

Here is the lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng list again.


http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts.htm
Breeze, They were not only University Drop Outs, they dropped out of places like Harvard.

[daniel green]

http://www.forbes.com/2008/11/24/oprah-philanthropy-celebrity-biz-media-cz_dkr_1124charitycelebs_slide_2.html

[daniel green]

Posted On: September 12, 2008


Parade magazine just published a list of the 30 most generous celebrities and not surprisingly Oprah Winfrey tops the list. Oprah donated over $50 million to various charities dealing with education, health, women and child advocacy and her own Oprah’s Angel Network. Go O! Fifty Million Dollars Kids! That’s A LOT of money.

Number two on the list is a bit of a shocker; musician Herb Alpert gave $13 million to various charities last year including his own music foundation. I had no idea that the 73 trumpet player had that much paper. Good for him.

Number three was Barbra Streisand at $11 million, Fourth place was Paul Newman at $10 million and Fifth place goes to Mel Gibson with a total donation of $9.9 million. Brad and Angie come in at sixth place for giving away $8.4 million to their foundation that funds reconstruction in New Orleans and well as their donations to refugee aid.


Jerry Seinfeld $3 million; Hugh Hefner $2 million; Tiger Woods $1.3 million and Steven Spielberg at $1 million.

http://www.hollywoodbackwash.com/oprah-winfrey-top-list-of-most-generous-celebrities/

[Cindylee]

Not really. He holds the record for contributions given to charities by a pop artist.

imo

Oh, I am sorry, I didn't realize that. I thought it was said of all people. My mistake.

[Cindylee]

Well, as a good night, it is very nice that we have all of these wealthy people that give for whatever reason. Whether it is from the heart or for tax breaks ( which I hope continues) or because they have a specific cause they care about. It is all a good thing. :seeya:

[flipflop]

Jackson's Auction Property Still in Limbo

Posted Sep 2nd 2009 1:55AM by TMZ Staff

The auction items Michael Jackson fought to have returned to him before he died are still not in his estate's possession ... and it's all because MJ's former manager won't let the auction house give the stuff back.



The drama began back in May, when Julien's Auction House filed documents saying they couldn't return the property to Michael because someone else was trying to claim it too: Dr. Tohme Tohme.

In new documents filed by Julien's, they say Dr. Tohme² still hasn't signed release papers for the property -- which is the final step in returning Michael's stuff to its rightful owner.

We spoke to Jerry Hawxhurst -- a lawyer for Julien's -- who said Tohme has had the papers for nearly a month. Jerry said if Tohme doesn't sign the papers within the next few weeks, he'll have to take MJ's estate and Tohme to court.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PwydyB6m

[GentleBreeze]

Breeze, They were not only University Drop Outs, they dropped out of places like Harvard.

:confused:

All of the people on the list were high school dropouts and some didn't even have a grammar school education.

Which one on the list was a college dropout other than Gates?



imohttp://www.education-reform.net/dropouts.htm

[GentleBreeze]

Jackson's Auction Property Still in Limbo

Posted Sep 2nd 2009 1:55AM by TMZ Staff

The auction items Michael Jackson fought to have returned to him before he died are still not in his estate's possession ... and it's all because MJ's former manager won't let the auction house give the stuff back.

The drama began back in May, when Julien's Auction House filed documents saying they couldn't return the property to Michael because someone else was trying to claim it too: Dr. Tohme Tohme.

In new documents filed by Julien's, they say Dr. Tohme² still hasn't signed release papers for the property -- which is the final step in returning Michael's stuff to its rightful owner.

We spoke to Jerry Hawxhurst -- a lawyer for Julien's -- who said Tohme has had the papers for nearly a month. Jerry said if Tohme doesn't sign the papers within the next few weeks, he'll have to take MJ's estate and Tohme to court.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PwydyB6m

Just as I thought.

Wasn't there a mention already that the administrators had found that some of MJs memorabilia had already been sold by a private seller? Hmmmm

imo

[flipflop]

Just as I thought.

Wasn't there a mention already that the administrators had found that some of MJs memorabilia had already been sold by a private seller? Hmmmm

imo

Are you talking about this?


Jackson Memorabilia Missing

Posted Aug 13th 2009 1:45PM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson Memorabilia MissingSome of Michael Jackson's memorabilia is missing and the cops are on the case.

Jackson was in a prolonged legal dispute with a guy named Henry Vaccaro, who got a judgment against the singer in the 90s that Jackson never paid. Vaccaro ended up with a treasure trove of memorabilia, including 60 unreleased master tapes -- which contained 26 of Jackson's songs which have never been heard by the public.

We've been told the dispute between Jackson and Vaccaro lingered and recently Vaccaro agreed to give Jackson 8 items that Michael wanted. We do not know which specific items Jackson flagged.

We're told on July 19, two of Jackson's lawyers went with Vaccaro to the storage locker in Las Vegas where the memorabilia was being stored. According to Vaccaro, 114 items were missing, including the 8 items Jackson's lawyers were there to retrieve.

The items ended up being sold a week later by Clark County Public Auction owner Mario Trabado -- who says he acquired the items legally from a private seller.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/13/michael-jackson-memorabilia-missing-henry-veccaro/#ixzz0Px8YAI8h

[flipflop]

VIDEO: La Toya Jackson's New Video Pays Homage To Fallen Brother

La Toya Jackson, the sister of Michael Jackson, has released a new single and music video, Home, as a tribute to her brother, Michael.

The video features many nuances associated with the late King Of Pop: It was shot at at Disney's Golden Oak Ranch in Santa Clarita, California, giving it a backdrop similar to the Neverland compound the Thriller singer called home. La Toya is also seen climbing up a tree, an activity Michael also professed to enjoying in his life.

All proceeds from the song's downloads will go to AIDS Project Los Angeles.

Said La Toya of the charity: "It means a lot to me because, as you all know, my brother has given to so many organizations, and this is one of the organizations he's been giving to for over 10 years."

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/video-la-toya-jacksons-new-video-pays-homage-fallen-brother


I actually liked the song. :smile:

[GentleBreeze]

Are you talking about this?


Jackson Memorabilia Missing

Posted Aug 13th 2009 1:45PM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson Memorabilia MissingSome of Michael Jackson's memorabilia is missing and the cops are on the case.

Jackson was in a prolonged legal dispute with a guy named Henry Vaccaro, who got a judgment against the singer in the 90s that Jackson never paid. Vaccaro ended up with a treasure trove of memorabilia, including 60 unreleased master tapes -- which contained 26 of Jackson's songs which have never been heard by the public.

We've been told the dispute between Jackson and Vaccaro lingered and recently Vaccaro agreed to give Jackson 8 items that Michael wanted. We do not know which specific items Jackson flagged.

We're told on July 19, two of Jackson's lawyers went with Vaccaro to the storage locker in Las Vegas where the memorabilia was being stored. According to Vaccaro, 114 items were missing, including the 8 items Jackson's lawyers were there to retrieve.

The items ended up being sold a week later by Clark County Public Auction owner Mario Trabado -- who says he acquired the items legally from a private seller.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/13/michael-jackson-memorabilia-missing-henry-veccaro/#ixzz0Px8YAI8h

Yes, thank you.

So how could they be stolen and sold if Vaccaro is the only one that has access?:confused:

Was he in collusions with "someone"?

Where does Toihme Tohme reside?

imo

[GentleBreeze]

VIDEO: La Toya Jackson's New Video Pays Homage To Fallen Brother

La Toya Jackson, the sister of Michael Jackson, has released a new single and music video, Home, as a tribute to her brother, Michael.

The video features many nuances associated with the late King Of Pop: It was shot at at Disney's Golden Oak Ranch in Santa Clarita, California, giving it a backdrop similar to the Neverland compound the Thriller singer called home. La Toya is also seen climbing up a tree, an activity Michael also professed to enjoying in his life.

All proceeds from the song's downloads will go to AIDS Project Los Angeles.

Said La Toya of the charity: "It means a lot to me because, as you all know, my brother has given to so many organizations, and this is one of the organizations he's been giving to for over 10 years."

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/video-la-toya-jacksons-new-video-pays-homage-fallen-brother


I actually liked the song. :smile:

She did great and the video is so well done. I have never listened to LaToya that much but she too has a very nice voice.

My my, she looks great! lol

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Jackson's Auction Property Still in Limbo

Posted Sep 2nd 2009 1:55AM by TMZ Staff

The auction items Michael Jackson fought to have returned to him before he died are still not in his estate's possession ... and it's all because MJ's former manager won't let the auction house give the stuff back.



The drama began back in May, when Julien's Auction House filed documents saying they couldn't return the property to Michael because someone else was trying to claim it too: Dr. Tohme Tohme.

In new documents filed by Julien's, they say Dr. Tohme² still hasn't signed release papers for the property -- which is the final step in returning Michael's stuff to its rightful owner.

We spoke to Jerry Hawxhurst -- a lawyer for Julien's -- who said Tohme has had the papers for nearly a month. Jerry said if Tohme doesn't sign the papers within the next few weeks, he'll have to take MJ's estate and Tohme to court.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PwydyB6m

Who the Hell Owns Michael Jackson's Junk!
Posted May 14th 2009 8:00PM by TMZ Staff

The auction house that was going to sell millions of dollars of property from Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch has filed legal papers, because it seems everyone on earth is claiming they own the goods.


UPDATE: Dr. Tohme just contacted TMZ. He says he controls MJJ Productions, but says all the auction items are in Jacko's name. Tohme tells us he's not trying to claim any of MJ's property.

UPDATE: Dr. Tohme just contacted us again, to say that Michael is the one in charge of MJJ Productions, not him. Sounds like this is reason the papers were filed in the first place.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/05/14/who-th...#ixzz0PxZEWX8t

[Firehead11]

Who the Hell Owns Michael Jackson's Junk!
Posted May 14th 2009 8:00PM by TMZ Staff

The auction house that was going to sell millions of dollars of property from Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch has filed legal papers, because it seems everyone on earth is claiming they own the goods.


UPDATE: Dr. Tohme just contacted TMZ. He says he controls MJJ Productions, but says all the auction items are in Jacko's name. Tohme tells us he's not trying to claim any of MJ's property.

UPDATE: Dr. Tohme just contacted us again, to say that Michael is the one in charge of MJJ Productions, not him. Sounds like this is reason the papers were filed in the first place.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/05/14/who-th...#ixzz0PxZEWX8t


Was this before or after he was fired?

[retiredcop]

Bill Gates compared to Michael Jackson????? Someone on here has evidently not read Bill Gates biography. Let's get real. :laugh:

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Steve Jobs compared to Michael Jackson. Someone on here has not read Steve Jobs biography. Let's get real. :laugh:

in my opinion

[Xenam]

Was this before or after he was fired?

Good afternoon all :)

Trying to get caught up so if this has already been posted please 4give me:

Jackson's Auction Property Still in Limbo
Posted Sep 2nd 2009 6:55AM by TMZ Staff

The auction items Michael Jackson fought to have returned to him before he died are still not in his estate's possession ... and it's all because MJ's former manager won't let the auction house give the stuff back.

We spoke to Jerry Hawxhurst -- a lawyer for Julien's -- who said Tohme has had the papers for nearly a month. Jerry said if Tohme doesn't sign the papers within the next few weeks, he'll have to take MJ's estate and Tohme to court.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/09/02/jacksons-auction-property-still-in-limbo/

[Cindylee]

Jackson's Auction Property Still in Limbo

Posted Sep 2nd 2009 1:55AM by TMZ Staff

The auction items Michael Jackson fought to have returned to him before he died are still not in his estate's possession ... and it's all because MJ's former manager won't let the auction house give the stuff back.



The drama began back in May, when Julien's Auction House filed documents saying they couldn't return the property to Michael because someone else was trying to claim it too: Dr. Tohme Tohme.

In new documents filed by Julien's, they say Dr. Tohme² still hasn't signed release papers for the property -- which is the final step in returning Michael's stuff to its rightful owner.

We spoke to Jerry Hawxhurst -- a lawyer for Julien's -- who said Tohme has had the papers for nearly a month. Jerry said if Tohme doesn't sign the papers within the next few weeks, he'll have to take MJ's estate and Tohme to court.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PwydyB6m

I don't get this........Why would Tohme have the right, or authority, to sign anything to get MJ's stuff?????

[Unperson1984]

Many have posted that MJ's ever changing appearance was due to a skin disorder and Lupus, and I accepted that reasoning because I had no basis not to.

Then I saw these pictures of LaToya on another thread. In many of these pictures she could be MJ in drag, she certainly has the same lightened skin and the same nose. I doubt they both have the same skin disorder and lupus.


http://music.msn.com/latoya-jackson/photo-gallery/in-focus/?iv=0

[Xenam]

Many have posted that MJ's ever changing appearance was due to a skin disorder and Lupus, and I accepted that reasoning because I had no basis not to.

Then I saw these pictures of LaToya on another thread. In many of these pictures she could be MJ in drag, she certainly has the same lightened skin and the same nose. I doubt they both have the same skin disorder and lupus.


http://music.msn.com/latoya-jackson/photo-gallery/in-focus/?iv=0

LaToya definitely had a nose job -- but I do not believe she ever lightened her skin. If you look at her photos all depends on the lighting. She IS the lightest out of all the Jacksons and has always been shades lighter.

I've seen other pictures but here is one with the whole family -- note LaToya's complexion compared to the others:

http://frankpaulgambino.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/jackson-five-family-photo.jpg

Recent pictures:

http://www.absolutenow.com/photos/6169_jackson_latoya_07.html

http://www.absolutenow.com/photos/6143_jackson_latoya_12.html

[Unperson1984]

I don't get this........Why would Tohme have the right, or authority, to sign anything to get MJ's stuff?????

I'd guess at some point Tohme had a legal Power of Attorney. In the recorded conversation with his Spiritual Advisor MJ said that Tohme talked to MJ's lawyers and I can't imagine they would talk to him without a valid PoA in place.

[ABC]

:confused:

All of the people on the list were high school dropouts and some didn't even have a grammar school education.

Which one on the list was a college dropout other than Gates?



imohttp://www.education-reform.net/dropouts.htm
All of the names are easly googled. Just a few and the University they dropped out of :
Michael Dell - University of Texas
Steve Jobs - Reed University
Steve Wojank - University of Califronia, Berkley - he actually got an econ degree, years later.
David Geffen - Santa Monica University, Brooklyn University and University of Texas
Bill Gates - Harvard University
Abe Lincoln was self taught.

[Xenam]

Musically, Jackson had become directionless, DJ Paul Gambaccini argues. "Everything suggests it's not just his real fans who bought the act, it appears as if he bought the act: he believed that he was the King of Pop, he believed he was still a major star even though in today's marketplace he did not even have a presence. He seemed clueless about what to do next."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jun/29/michael-jackson-finances-debt-neverland

And the next paragraph:

The fact that such a prolonged run sold out so fast proved Jackson still had extraordinary pulling power.

[Cindylee]

I'd guess at some point Tohme had a legal Power of Attorney. In the recorded conversation with his Spiritual Advisor MJ said that Tohme talked to MJ's lawyers and I can't imagine they would talk to him without a valid PoA in place.

Would it still be valid? If so, there is no telling what he could do. He could still be getting into accounts, things like that. Yikes.

[Xenam]

Gosh.. it almost appears as though we might have been intentionally mislead.
:ohmy:

Yes very surprising .......... not ! :tongueside:

[GentleBreeze]

All of the names are easly googled. Just a few and the University they dropped out of :
Michael Dell - University of Texas
Steve Jobs - Reed University
Steve Wojank - University of Califronia, Berkley - he actually got an econ degree, years later.
David Geffen - Santa Monica University, Brooklyn University and University of Texas
Bill Gates - Harvard University
Abe Lincoln was self taught.

What in the heck are you talking about?:confused:

I am talking about this link. http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts.htm

These are not college dropouts although several of them are Presidents.

The list is endlessly, even Albert Einstein which is noted as a genius. A lot of these very successful people had no formal eduction at all and some had grammar school educations. Oh and Walt Disney received an honorary high school diploma at the age of 58.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I'd guess at some point Tohme had a legal Power of Attorney. In the recorded conversation with his Spiritual Advisor MJ said that Tohme talked to MJ's lawyers and I can't imagine they would talk to him without a valid PoA in place.

That was before Tohme was fired and replaced with another manager and lawyer who both are over his estate now.

I think Tohme knows he is in a world of trouble.

He is saying one thing and then coming back and saying the opposite.

I am sure MJs lawyers will get wind that he called TMZ and admitted he didn't have rights to MJs memorabilia and then admitted that MJ controlled MJJ Productions instead of him.

But this is the same man that was opining to the public right after MJ died that he was in charge of all of MJs business affairs. Of course we have learned that is not true.

More to come out about Tohme imo.

imo

[Xenam]

EXCLUSIVE: LAPD Interview Michael Jackson WitnessesEXCLUSIVE: LAPD Interview Michael Jackson Witnesses
Posted on Sep 01, 2009 @ 09:03PM

Alberto Alvarez, the security guard that made the 911 call, and Michael Amir, Michael Jackson's chief of staff, were interviewed Monday at the office of their attorney, Carl Douglas.
<snip>

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/09/exclusive-lapd-interview-michael-jackson-witnesses

Gentle giant Alberto, who is 5ft 11in and a muscular 15st, briefly emerged from hiding to tell us that he had been ordered not to talk.

“Loyalty is everything in the security business,” said Alberto, 32. “I am going to go away for a few days to work out what to do.”

His wife Anna fought back tears as she told how her husband’s life has been turned upside down by Jacko’s death.

“He is going through a lot and needs time out to think about everything and decide what to do,” she said at the modest bungalow they share with Alberto’s father, brother and sister.

“It’s been really hard. He has to get away. We haven’t got a lawyer or anyone to help us through this.”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1197571/Jackson-family-fallout-Exclusive-interview-manager-reveals-rift-funeral.html

Picture of Alberto Alvarez -- described as very loyal to MJ:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1197571/Jackson-family-fallout-Exclusive-interview-manager-reveals-rift-funeral.html

At 12:13 p.m., Murray made a four-second call to Jackson's personal assistant, Michael Amir Williams, pleading for help, Williams' attorney Carl Douglas said. Within two minutes, Williams called Alberto Alvarez, Jackson's bodyguard, with a similar plea.

Douglas, who also represents Alvarez, said the bodyguard hurried to the top floor of Jackson's rented mansion, a private sanctum where staff were not normally allowed, and assisted a confused-looking Murray as he frantically tried to revive Jackson. It was Alvarez that placed the 911 call at 12:21 p.m.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iMkoNA7ANMxeUu2iZ9hdf_Vr1FfQD9AAHF5O0

[GentleBreeze]

I know of a few posters in here, who would not appreciate the slamming of Walt for his honorary HS diploma, as Michael was last night.

imo...of course.

I thought the link was so enlightening. It really had a good massage. A college education doesn't define success. It is the passion and drive of the individual that makes them what they become.

I know people that have college degrees that make lower wages than those with just a high school education. Just having book knowledge is no assurance that success will ever be achieved.

These great outstanding people on that list I linked is absolute proof of that.:smile:

imo

[Xenam]

Question for anyone........

Who said Dr. Tohme Tohme was fired and when was he fired? I cannot find anything on it. TIA

The only business manager I can find that was fired was Rowe. :confused:

[ABC]

I thought the link was so enlightening. It really had a good massage. A college education doesn't define success. It is the passion and drive of the individual that makes them what they become.

I know people that have college degrees that make lower wages than those with just a high school education. Just having book knowledge is no assurance that success will ever be achieved.

These great outstanding people on that list I linked is absolute proof of that.:smile:

imo
I would be the first to agree that inventing the Hula Hoop is far better then any University Degree but the fact is, its not my list and of the folks mentioned most dropped out of University or later graduated.

[GentleBreeze]

Question for anyone........

Who said Dr. Tohme Tohme was fired and when was he fired? I cannot find anything on it. TIA

The only business manager I can find that was fired was Rowe. :confused:

In the video of the spiritual adviser a letter stating TT no longer represented him was shown with MJs signature. I believe it was done in May and that would correlate with him rehiring his old manager and lawyer team 6 weeks before he died.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I would be the first to agree that inventing the Hula Hoop is far better then any University Degree but the fact is, its not my list and of the folks mentioned most dropped out of University or later graduated.

Why you have such a great need to put these great outstanding individuals down I don't have a clue.:rolleyes:

The list is countless and no where in the link does it say that they dropped out of an university or later graduated.:rolleyes:

[GentleBreeze]

The difference is that Walt Disney had character, ethics and dignity. Michael Jackson did not.

Baloney. We are talking about being highly successful without a formal education.:rolleyes:

[daniel green]

Bill Gates compared to Michael Jackson????? Someone on here has evidently not read Bill Gates biography. Let's get real. :laugh:

in my opinion

I am dumbfounded.

Geffen.
Wozniak
Allen

:blushing::blushing:

[GentleBreeze]

I remember seeing the letter on tv, and Tohme he denied receiving it. Maybe if you look for a tv interview with tohme, cause I can't remember which show, or who interviewd him.

LOL, well I am sure that old trick has been used a few times.:biggrin:

Wonder why he thought the old manager and old lawyer team was back again?:wink:

[daniel green]

:confused:

All of the people on the list were high school dropouts and some didn't even have a grammar school education.

Which one on the list was a college dropout other than Gates?
snipped

ALL of them on that list you posted last night. We told you last night several times.

[marco]

The difference is that Walt Disney had character, ethics and dignity. Michael Jackson did not.

Oh, did I mention, it was also thought that he was a genius. :)

ETA: It is undisputable that Walt Disney's legacy will live on far longer that Micheal Jackson's.

It could be said that both Disney and Jackson loved children. Although... Jackson might have loved children a little bit "more." I mean... he shared his bed with little boys.

How many little boys did Walt Disney share his bed with?

[daniel green]

Many have posted that MJ's ever changing appearance was due to a skin disorder and Lupus, and I accepted that reasoning because I had no basis not to.

Then I saw these pictures of LaToya on another thread. In many of these pictures she could be MJ in drag, she certainly has the same lightened skin and the same nose. I doubt they both have the same skin disorder and lupus.


http://music.msn.com/latoya-jackson/photo-gallery/in-focus/?iv=0


Oh, absolutely. Which makes the whole preposterous vitiligo and lupus stories so unbelievable.

[Xenam]

I remember seeing the letter on tv, and Tohme he denied receiving it. Maybe if you look for a tv interview with tohme, cause I can't remember which show, or who interviewd him.

OK -- I found out. It was Frank DiLeo who said Dr Tohme Tohme was fired and he replaced him and now I remember. I believe he stated this on LKL as well. Duh :huh: Thanks GB for the video reminder as well.

"The next day, however, Frank DiLeo, Jackson’s current manager and a friend of three decades, claimed he was Jackson’s manager and said Tohme had been fired a month and a half earlier. Tohme denied being fired but declined further comment.”

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2009/07/michael-jacksons-death-neverland-the-mysterious-dr-tohme-president-of-michael-jackson-productions/

[GentleBreeze]

ALL of them on that list you posted last night. We told you last night several times.

Nope only posted the list once about college dropouts.

Here is the one I linked more than once and here it is again.

I see no mention of Geffen.Wozniak,Allen

http://www.education-reform.net/dropouts.htm

[GentleBreeze]

Einstein, Abe Lincoln and W. Disney, By the way W. Disney has an honorary HS diploma, just like MJ.

Ooooooooooh, I know. Imagine that.:smile:

[GentleBreeze]

Excuse me GB but Walt Disney got an honorary HS Diploma. So we are talking about the same thing. Add to that the Disney Empire is worth far more than MJ's and always will be.

Still doesn't mean that MJ wasn't a very successful man. It is estimated that he had made over a billion dollars through the years.

You may think that is ordinary but I do not.

And imo he is going to make more money posthumously than any other entertainer before this is all over with.

imo

[marco]

I guess one fact stands out. One not need a high school diploma or college degree to make the immoral decision to share one's bed with little boys.

[daniel green]

Einstein, Abe Lincoln and W. Disney, By the way W. Disney has an honorary HS diploma, just like MJ.

OK, now I know you are jesting, because nobody in his/her right mind would even dare compare President Lincoln to someone like MJ.