8/31 Daily Discussion

[Firehead11]

Let us all please try to play nice. I would hate to see this topic closed down for good.

[Firehead11]

Over the weekend there were many tributes to Jackson. I did not get to watch them. Instead I played the "Ultimate Collection" .


What were your thoughts about the different programs IF you watched them?

[?WudScoobyDo]

I watched Geraldo last night, and he was talking about Dr. Tohme. He played the tape of Michael saying he was afraid of him. I remembered that Geraldo was the first to suggest this was a homicide. Someone said they expected the arrest of Murray this week, maybe it was Garragos, but I can't remember.

Did daylight savings end last night? One of my clocks says 8 and the other one says 9?

[?WudScoobyDo]

In 2009, daylight time begins on March 8 and ends on November 1


I thought I woke up late, until I turned on the computer and it said I actually was up early. How weird.

Thanks for the message CW.

[Cindylee]

Here is more about the boy that says he is MJ's son.
There are pictures that don't copy here. www.tmz.com


Michael Jackson -- The Kid Is (Maybe) His Son?

Posted Aug 31st 2009 1:58AM by TMZ Staff

Prince Michael Malachi Jet Jackson came out of the woodwork to claim he is Michael Jackson's third son -- and now we have the photos to help you judge if it's true.

Launch photos

According to documents released last week, PMMJJ requested a DNA test to prove he is the biological son of Michael Jackson. Ron Newt, a close family friend of PMMJJ, tells TMZ he approached Joe Jackson (whom he was friends with) before Michael's death. Newt says Joe denied the whole thing and told him to "leave it alone."

The "official" Prince Michael -- the one who was raised by MJ -- is 12 years old. This other PMMJJ is 24, and Newt says the man is just looking for "closure."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0Pm3VuIww

[Cindylee]

I wonder if the service for MJ at Forest Lawn scheduled for Thurs. will have to be postponed due to the horrible fires near there? The smoke is awful.

[Cindylee]

[QUOTE=Coldwater

What does this have to do w/his death?? I think this belongs more on a Gossip Board, not here.[/QUOTE]

Sorry.....

[Firehead11]

I watched Geraldo last night, and he was talking about Dr. Tohme. He played the tape of Michael saying he was afraid of him. I remembered that Geraldo was the first to suggest this was a homicide. Someone said they expected the arrest of Murray this week, maybe it was Garragos, but I can't remember.

Did daylight savings end last night? One of my clocks says 8 and the other one says 9?


I started to watch one of the shows on BET TV however all they did was show pictures of fans and very little of any Jackson infomation.

I went looking this am to see if anymore infomation was "leaked out". I was really hoping for an arrest to happen but I guess they are collecting all the evidence that they can before they file anything.

[?WudScoobyDo]

I just heard on the news that Joe Jackson is asking for a "congressional" investigation into his son's death. He was asked if there are more doctors that should be arrested, and he said... I didn't say doctors. I want everyone connected with his death arrested.

[retiredcop]

I just heard on the news that Joe Jackson is asking for a "congressional" investigation into his son's death. He was asked if there are more doctors that should be arrested, and he said... I didn't say doctors. I want everyone connected with his death arrested.

A congressional investigation?? That's ridiculous. GMAB:lol:

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

A congressional investigation?? That's ridiculous. GMAB:lol:

in my opinion

I thought it was a little odd. But then again, he knows more than we do.

[Cindylee]

Joe Jackson: 'Someone should pay' for son's death

(AP) – 27 minutes ago

NEW YORK — Michael Jackson's father says he'd never heard of the drug propofol until it was implicated in his son's death.

"I'm not angry. I'm mad," Joe Jackson said in an interview that aired Monday on NBC's "Today" show. "I didn't know all this was going on. That's what I'm mad about."

The Los Angeles County coroner's office announced Friday that Michael Jackson's death on June 25 was a homicide caused primarily by propofol and another sedative, and ruled propofol with other anti-anxiety drugs was a contributing factor in his death.

Jackson was using propofol to help him sleep, a practice medical experts consider extremely dangerous.

Joe Jackson said the coroner's announcement "tells me there was foul play done. That's what it tells me. And more to be investigated to see what is behind all of this stuff, not just Dr. Conrad Murray."

Murray, a Las Vegas cardiologist who was Michael Jackson's personal physician, hasn't been charged with any crime but he is the target of what police term a manslaughter investigation.

"Someone should pay. Not just someone but all of them should pay that's involved," Jackson said.

NBC is owned by General Electric Co.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hudBFcl-kLF---iax7w5Ka3N5zswD9ADUKT00

[retiredcop]

I thought it was a little odd. But then again, he knows more than we do.

Joe Jackson along with the rest of the family, including Katherine, want Mr Jackson's death somehow tied into Mr Branca. They want to challenge the executors for the will. What better way? They are after the money with no one else having control. That's why he hints at others and not just the doctors being involved in Mr Jackson's death.

That won't work.:thumbdown:

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

I just heard on the news that Joe Jackson is asking for a "congressional" investigation into his son's death. He was asked if there are more doctors that should be arrested, and he said... I didn't say doctors. I want everyone connected with his death arrested.

I must admit I sure would like to know who all was around MJ right around the time Murray entered the scene.

Selecting Murray as his private physician seems to have been an afterthought because he first had asked Nurse Lee and another doctor. From what we heard MJ met Murray in 2006 when Murray treated one of MJs children. Yet there seems to be no contact between that time and in 2009 that we are privy to knowing anyway. So did someone who was an enabler of MJs suggest Murray's name to him?

imo

[?WudScoobyDo]

Joe Jackson along with the rest of the family, including Katherine, want Mr Jackson's death somehow tied into Mr Branca. They want to challenge the executors for the will. What better way? They are after the money with no one else having control. That's why he hints at others and not just the doctors being involved in Mr Jackson's death.

That won't work.:thumbdown:

in my opinion


The way I understand it is that Dr. Tohme, isnt a doctor at all. I'm betting he is involved somehow. Katherine already gets more money then will last her lifetime. I don't blame her at least until she knows who is responsible for killing her son.

[GentleBreeze]

Joe Jackson along with the rest of the family, including Katherine, want Mr Jackson's death somehow tied into Mr Branca. They want to challenge the executors for the will. What better way? They are after the money with no one else having control. That's why he hints at others and not just the doctors being involved in Mr Jackson's death.

That won't work.:thumbdown:

in my opinion

Well if there were any enablers that were helping to facilitate any of this they too should be arrested.

imo

[Unperson1984]

A congressional investigation?? That's ridiculous. GMAB:lol:

in my opinion

Actually I would like Congress to hold hearings about prescription drug abuse, especially in connection with health care reform. Using MJ’s death could cause more interest in the problem and solution.

IMO

[GentleBreeze]

The way I understand it is that Dr. Tohme, isn't a doctor at all. I'm betting he is involved somehow. Katherine already gets more money then will last her lifetime. I don't blame her at least until she knows who is responsible for killing her son.

I can understand it as well. I don't put it past Joe and him wanting to make money for he was left high and dry in the Will, but I do understand Katherine's concerns.

If it were my son I would want anyone and everyone involved to be charged.

The CA/AG has brought charges against those they think enabled as we are all aware. So if they are here in this case they should be charged also.

imo

[retiredcop]

I must admit I sure would like to know who all was around MJ right around the time Murray entered the scene.

Selecting Murray as his private physician seems to have been an afterthought because he first had asked Nurse Lee and another doctor. From what we heard MJ met Murray in 2006 when Murray treated one of MJs children. Yet there seems to be no contact between that time and in 2009 that we are privy to knowing anyway. So did someone who was an enabler of MJs suggest Murray's name to him?

imo

NO, I think the Jacksons want to tie this to Branca as heading up a conspiracy to get the estate and get it fast. I'll never believe Joe Jackson isn't after that estate. That's his main goal. Serving justice is just an after thought.

At least he isn't angry, just mad.:confused:

When Mr Jackson tied that will up, he did it for a reason. Joe Jackson probably feels Mr Branca talked him into doing that giving Mr Branca contol.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

NO, I think the Jacksons want to tie this to Branca as heading up a conspiracy to get the estate and get it fast. I'll never believe Joe Jackson isn't after that estate. That's his main goal. Serving justice is just an after thought.

At least he isn't angry, just mad.:confused:

When Mr Jackson tied that will up, he did it for a reason. Joe Jackson probably feels Mr Branca talked him into doing that giving Mr Branca contol.

in my opinion

What are you talking about. Joe Jackson hasn't tied up any will. I can't speak for Joe or anyone else, but I'm pretty sure they all want justice served.

[retiredcop]

The way I understand it is that Dr. Tohme, isnt a doctor at all. I'm betting he is involved somehow. Katherine already gets more money then will last her lifetime. I don't blame her at least until she knows who is responsible for killing her son.

If Tohme was involved in some conspiracy, which I doubt there was a conspiracy, he had been fired and had no access to anything, so he was left high and dry.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

What are you talking about. Joe Jackson hasn't tied up any will. I can't speak for Joe or anyone else, but I'm pretty sure they all want justice served.

I was talking about Michael Jackson. He tied up that will but good.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

If Tohme was involved in some conspiracy, which I doubt there was a conspiracy, he had been fired and had no access to anything, so he was left high and dry.

in my opinion

That is not what he said. Two weeks after MJ died he was still telling everyone he was in charge of all of MJs business affairs.

imo

[?WudScoobyDo]

If Tohme was involved in some conspiracy, which I doubt there was a conspiracy, he had been fired and had no access to anything, so he was left high and dry.

in my opinion

He sure had access to 5 million dollars, that belonged to MJ. Odd that he would appear on tv claiming he was still involved in controlling Micahel's life, even after he was killed.

[retiredcop]

That is not what he said. Two weeks after MJ died he was still telling everyone he was in charge of all of MJs business affairs.

imo

So what if he said that. It is a fact he wasn't. He had been fired. Mr Branca was back on board. Do you actually believe Tohme could have been in charge of anything after that? There was only one person in charge of Mr Jackson's business affairs and that was Mr Branca who was working on trying to straighten every thing out.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

He sure had access to 5 million dollars, that belonged to MJ. Odd that he would appear on tv claiming he was still involved in controlling Micahel's life, even after he was killed.

The executors got that 5 million back. Tohme could not have gotten away with keeping that anyway. I don't think it odd about anything Tohme said. I think he is very upset he was kicked out of running Mr Jackson's business affairs. I do believe that 5 million was given to Tohme to hold back when Mr Branca was not on board yet. That 5 million was to hold to buy a home IIRC.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

The executors got that 5 million back. Tohme could not have gotten away with keeping that anyway. I don't think it odd about anything Tohme said. I think he is very upset he was kicked out of running Mr Jackson's business affairs. I do believe that 5 million was given to Tohme to hold back when Mr Branca was not on board yet. That 5 million was to hold to buy a home IIRC.

in my opinion


I'm thinking that when Tohme was fired, and after Michael stated his fear of the man, somehow... Michael would have asked for his money back. It's not logical to conclude that he was still authorized to have that money, or logical for him to be on tv saying he was working for MJ, when clearly he was not.

[retiredcop]

I can understand it as well. I don't put it past Joe and him wanting to make money for he was left high and dry in the Will, but I do understand Katherine's concerns.

If it were my son I would want anyone and everyone involved to be charged.

The CA/AG has brought charges against those they think enabled as we are all aware. So if they are here in this case they should be charged also.

imo

No charges have been brought against anyone. :confused:

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

The executors got that 5 million back. Tohme could not have gotten away with keeping that anyway. I don't think it odd about anything Tohme said. I think he is very upset he was kicked out of running Mr Jackson's business affairs. I do believe that 5 million was given to Tohme to hold back when Mr Branca was not on board yet. That 5 million was to hold to buy a home IIRC.

in my opinion


Ane you know what else.. someone felt it necessary to post and re-post Michael's credit score. How believable is it that Michael could get a loan for a new house, which surely exceeded the price of 5 million. It strikes me funny how you focus on the idea that Tohme gave the money back. Why not focus on how he got it. I would think any cop would want to do that.

[Emerald]

He sure had access to 5 million dollars, that belonged to MJ. Odd that he would appear on tv claiming he was still involved in controlling Micahel's life, even after he was killed.

JMO

There is lots of stuff the executors and trustees did immediately to protect the estate about which we nor the Jacksons are aware. Somebody besides MJ and Tomhe knew about that money, otherwise it would not have been returned.

MJ was going through some very in depth recent financial scrutiny, IIRC. Lots and lots of audited paper trails. The more noise they make about the estate, the more the peripheral Jacksons stand to lose.

I do not begrudge the Family wanting a full investigation into the events surrounding MJ's death. But, the estate battle is separate.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

The executors got that 5 million back. Tohme could not have gotten away with keeping that anyway. I don't think it odd about anything Tohme said. I think he is very upset he was kicked out of running Mr Jackson's business affairs. I do believe that 5 million was given to Tohme to hold back when Mr Branca was not on board yet. That 5 million was to hold to buy a home IIRC.

in my opinion

No one except Tohme has ever come out and even spoken about a home that MJ was supposedly going to buy. Not even the Realtor of Wonderland or whatever Tohme said it was going to be called. Why would he be buying a home in LV when he was going to be living in London for 9 months?

This man had been sued in the past for doing fraudulent deals. I don't put it past him as still trying to do back door deals in MJs name even though he had no legal authority anymore.

If he was just holding 5 mil he would have given it back right after MJ died and not almost a month later. And why would MJ let someone hold 5 million when he had fired him?

imo

[?WudScoobyDo]

I keep saying second degree murder on the premise of implied intent. Now some lawyer is also sayign 2nd degree based on the felony murder rule, because it was a felony for Murray to have or prescribe drugs in California.

[retiredcop]

Ane you know what else.. someone felt it necessary to post and re-post Michael's credit score. How believable is it that Michael could get a loan for a new house, which surely exceeded the price of 5 million. It strikes me funny how you focus on the idea that Tohme gave the money back. Why not focus on how he got it. I would think any cop would want to do that.

I already said I believe Tohme was given the money to hold in order to buy a new house. Who knows if Mr Jackson was waiting to get more money from the tour for the house or not? I don't care if he could get a loan or not. I some how think he could have gotten one when the time came.

Don't start making this personal again. Your snark is out of line.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

I already said I believe Tohme was given the money to hold in order to buy a new house. Who knows if Mr Jackson was waiting to get more money from the tour for the house or not? I don't care if he could get a loan or not. I some how think he could have gotten one when the time came.

Don't start making this personal again. Your snark is out of line.

in my opinion


Hey.. thats not snark, its common sense. If you take it personally that I think any investigator/cop would want to look into this aspect, thats your issue not mine. Change your nic if you are offended when anyone says the word cop. You are the one who put it out there that you were, no one else did that.

[retiredcop]

No one except Tohme has ever come out and even spoken about a home that MJ was supposedly going to buy. Not even the Realtor of Wonderland or whatever Tohme said it was going to be called. Why would he be buying a home in LV when he was going to be living in London for 9 months?

This man had been sued in the past for doing fraudulent deals. I don't put it past him as still trying to do back door deals in MJs name even though he had no legal authority anymore.

If he was just holding 5 mil he would have given it back right after MJ died and not almost a month later. And why would MJ let someone hold 5 million when he had fired him?

imo

When did he give Tohme the money? I think it was before he was fired.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Michael Jackson desperately wanted to buy a sprawling Las Vegas estate that he planned to call 'Wonderland', it has been claimed. The cash-strapped singer is said to have fallen in love with the 10-acre property, which boasts secret tunnels, a 20-car garage and a waterfall in the garden.

http://www.limelife.com/blog-entry/Michael-Jackson-wanted-to-buy-039Wonderland039-home/9144.html

Thank you for the correction.

Still I believe MJ would have given the money to Branca and not left it with a man he had fired about 6 weeks before he died.

He told his spiritual adviser that he was fearful of Tohme.

imo

[Firehead11]

If it were my child that was murdered, I would want answers also.

IMO, Brown will go after any Doctor that gave Jackson prescription drugs WITHOUT a medical reason. Sp all those doctors better make sure they have their patient files correct.

I agree with the fact that Jackson's death just might get some of these drugs place in the control substance lists. And actually bring the problem to the forefront of todays youth.

Joe Jackson blows hot wind most of the time but maybe this time, he has apoint. Anyone involved inthedeath of his son should be charged in one way or another.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Michael Jackson desperately wanted to buy a sprawling Las Vegas estate that he planned to call 'Wonderland', it has been claimed. The cash-strapped singer is said to have fallen in love with the 10-acre property, which boasts secret tunnels, a 20-car garage and a waterfall in the garden.

http://www.limelife.com/blog-entry/Michael-Jackson-wanted-to-buy-039Wonderland039-home/9144.html


I'd like that house too. I doubt being cash strapped and all, I will get it.

[Cindylee]

Realtor says mansion’s security was key as King of Pop set sights on $16.5 million home. Visitors to the Primm compound on Tomiyasu Lane walk through the front door into the grand foyer. To the left is one of five fireplaces in the estate. Pop singer Michael Jackson had set his sights on purchasing the home after returning from his London tour.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/aug/13/jackson-nearly-settled-his-vegas-wonderland/

I just was looking at this site. It has a video showing the guy that showed the house (can you call this place a house :ohmy:) to MJ and the kids.

[?WudScoobyDo]

When did he give Tohme the money? I think it was before he was fired.

in my opinion

If you believe that MJ gave him the money, one would presume it was given before he was fired... and it would have been given back at the time he was fired. Of course he claims he never received the letter saying he wasn't authorized to act in behalf of Michael. I think Michael was smart enough to send it return receipt.

[retiredcop]

Thank you for the correction.

Still I believe MJ would have given the money to Branca and not left it with a man he had fired about 6 weeks before he died.

He told his spiritual adviser that he was fearful of Tohme.

imo

Again, when was the money given to Tohme? Was it before he was fired and was it before Mr Branca came back on board? I'd like to know the answer to that one myself.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

So Tohme has this 5 million dollars, and Michael wants it back. Isn't that a motive for murder? Was it Tohme who decided that decided Michael should be injected with a cocktail of lethal drugs? Was it Tohme that Murray called before calling 911?

[Lyndawitha"Y]

If you believe that MJ gave him the money, one would presume it was given before he was fired... and it would have been given back at the time he was fired. Of course he claims he never received the letter saying he wasn't authorized to act in behalf of Michael. I think Michael was smart enough to send it return receipt.

Morning Scoob~~ The more I read about the connections between Tohme and Jermaine, the more my hinky meter starts to jungle..Also It was Jermaine that suggested MJ go to Bahrain following the trial..

I found this article which gives some insights to just how involved Tohme was in that time period prior to the shakeup in May prior to his death..It also gives huge light into the whys and wherefore for Jermaine to be so insistent of Neverland being the final resting place for MJ...

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2009/07/michael-jacksons-death-neverland-the-mysterious-dr-tohme-president-of-michael-jackson-productions/

Interesting article indeed...

LMS:huh:

[Firehead11]

Again, when was the money given to Tohme? Was it before he was fired and was it before Mr Branca came back on board? I'd like to know the answer to that one myself.

in my opinion

Another question should be, Did MJ knew that Tohme had 5.5 million dollars of his money and where did that amount come from? Advance from AEG? I find it hard to believe that he didn't know he was fired. And why did it take a month after Jackson's death to be returned?

I hope all of this info comes out also. One guy syas he returned it, the executors claim they recovered it. Which one is telling the truth....?

[retiredcop]

Another question should be, Did MJ knew that Tohme had 5.5 million dollars of his money and where did that amount come from? Advance from AEG? I find it hard to believe that he didn't know he was fired. And why did it take a month after Jackson's death to be returned?

I hope all of this info comes out also. One guy syas he returned it, the executors claim they recovered it. Which one is telling the truth....?

I don't think it matters where the money came from. I think the executors requested the money back and Tohme returned it to them.

Branca could have been requesting the return of the money even before Mr Jackson died. We don't know. Tohme could have just put off returning it until Mr Jackson died. Who knows what if anything was in writing regarding the money.

I don't think any of this matters one witt to the death of Michael Jackson. I don't believe there was some conspiracy involved anyway.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

I was just catchin a bit of news on MSNBC and Dr Nancy had the man who interviewed JJ this morning. He said that JJ was very hesitant, took eons to answer questions, and re the questions about how much about the drug abuse was known by the family, his lawyer/adviser kept telling him not to answer. When asked if he sees the three children, JJ said "I see them enough."

[Cindylee]

Morning Scoob~~ The more I read about the connections between Tohme and Jermaine, the more my hinky meter starts to jungle..Also It was Jermaine that suggested MJ go to Bahrain following the trial..

I found this article which gives some insights to just how involved Tohme was in that time period prior to the shakeup in May prior to his death..It also gives huge light into the whys and wherefore for Jermaine to be so insistent of Neverland being the final resting place for MJ...

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2009/07/michael-jacksons-death-neverland-the-mysterious-dr-tohme-president-of-michael-jackson-productions/

Interesting article indeed...

LMS:huh:

Wow. Long, but well worth the read. Very interesting.

[Emerald]

JMO

The Jackson Family needs to accept MJ's part in his own death. Yes, whoever administered any lethal dose should be liable. Yes, it was MJ's choice to have the drugs administered.

The $$$ were recovered by the trust when they gave the option of return it no questions asked or have it legally seized. There is a reason it was returned with a public announcement. I've often wondered if the amount returned was the same amount the Family reported. Maybe the total over and above $5 million was shared between the Family and Tohme? The Family is very quiet about this guy.

IMO

[retiredcop]

JMO

The Jackson Family needs to accept MJ's part in his own death. Yes, whoever administered any lethal dose should be liable. Yes, it was MJ's choice to have the drugs administered.

The $$$ were recovered by the trust when they gave the option of return it no questions asked or have it legally seized. There is a reason it was returned with a public announcement. I've often wondered if the amount returned was the same amount the Family reported. Maybe the total over and above $5 million was shared between the Family and Tohme? The Family is very quiet about this guy.

IMO

I don't think the family knew anything about the money given to Tohme. Mr Jackson was not giving his family any information about his business affairs.

You may be thinking of the 2 million cash and jewelry LaToya claimed was missing from the mansion.

It is two different things entirely.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I think Mr Branca was at that mansion right away. Nothing has been mentioned about where he was the day Mr Jackson died. At least I don't remember anything. He wasn't at the hospital was he?

Anyway, I think he was there and scooped up anything of real value such as jewelry and cash left there. I think he took it for the estate and the jewelry especially for the children for mementos.

He has probably informed LaToya and the family since they have shut up about anything stolen from the mansion.

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

I think Mr Branca was at that mansion right away. Nothing has been mentioned about where he was the day Mr Jackson died. At least I don't remember anything. He wasn't at the hospital was he?

Anyway, I think he was there and scooped up anything of real value such as jewelry and cash left there. I think he took it for the estate and the jewelry especially for the children for mementos.

He has probably informed LaToya and the family since they have shut up about anything stolen from the mansion.

in my opinion

Wasn't Mr. Branca on vacation, and cut it short and came home????? I think I remember that. Not sure though.

[Xenam]

Actually I would like Congress to hold hearings about prescription drug abuse, especially in connection with health care reform. Using MJ’s death could cause more interest in the problem and solution.

IMO

Good afternoon all

ITA Unperson. Perhaps MJ's death will be the catapult to see that laws are enforced for doctors who prescribe to drug addicts for all the average john/jane doe US citizens. I also believe that doctors should be required to intervene when they realize their patients have become addicted. I understand there is doctor/patient confidentiality but when the patient is in need of assistance that is "outside of their control", a doctor should be allowed to inform those closest to the patient for the purposes of intervention.

When MJ entered rehab in 1993 it is because the Doctor who was treating him at the time actually contacted Liz Taylor for intervention. This IMO is a responsible doctor. JMHO

[Firehead11]

Wasn't Mr. Branca on vacation, and cut if short and came home????? I think I remember that. Not sure though.


Mr. Branca was not at the hospital the day Jackson died, however Tohme was. Maybe in support of Jermaine?

[Xenam]

Wasn't Mr. Branca on vacation, and cut if short and came home????? I think I remember that. Not sure though.

You are correct Cindy; thus the delay in presenting the will. JMO

[Xenam]

Morning Scoob~~ The more I read about the connections between Tohme and Jermaine, the more my hinky meter starts to jungle..Also It was Jermaine that suggested MJ go to Bahrain following the trial..

I found this article which gives some insights to just how involved Tohme was in that time period prior to the shakeup in May prior to his death..It also gives huge light into the whys and wherefore for Jermaine to be so insistent of Neverland being the final resting place for MJ...

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2009/07/michael-jacksons-death-neverland-the-mysterious-dr-tohme-president-of-michael-jackson-productions/

Interesting article indeed...

LMS:huh:

I had read this before Lynda and indeed it is interesting. I also read that this Tohme is the ex-husband of Jermaine's current wife. I'm reading this again to see if this is where I read it and if not will do a search to find it. JMO

[Cindylee]

Mr. Branca was not at the hospital the day Jackson died, however Tohme was. Maybe in support of Jermaine?

I tried to find something about it, but no luck. I just remember it was about the will, and Kathrine went to court and said there was no will, and Mr.Branca came back from being out of the country, and produced the will. Does that ring a bell with anyone else?

[?WudScoobyDo]

JMO

The Jackson Family needs to accept MJ's part in his own death. Yes, whoever administered any lethal dose should be liable. Yes, it was MJ's choice to have the drugs administered.

The $$$ were recovered by the trust when they gave the option of return it no questions asked or have it legally seized. There is a reason it was returned with a public announcement. I've often wondered if the amount returned was the same amount the Family reported. Maybe the total over and above $5 million was shared between the Family and Tohme? The Family is very quiet about this guy.

IMO

I think the world needs to accept that Michael Jackson was the victim of homicide, as well as other crimes committed against him. I don't think we know with any certainty that MJ made the choice to give him lethal doses of the various drugs. Another thing I felt was odd, is they say all the pill bottles were empty when they recovered the bottles. I think an addict would have some on hand instead of empty bottes. Were those bottles placed there after death and before 911 call?

[?WudScoobyDo]

I tried to find something about it, but no luck. I just remember it was about the will, and Kathrine went to court and said there was no will, and Mr.Branca came back from being out of the country, and produced the will. Does that ring a bell with anyone else?


I remember that too.

[Cindylee]

You are correct Cindy; thus the delay in presenting the will. JMO

Sorry, I missed your post. That's what I remembered.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Very interesting.

But I am confused .......I don't understand the link between Pellicano and Tohme?????????


They are both criminals who involve themselves with famous and rich people.

[Xenam]

So Tohme has this 5 million dollars, and Michael wants it back. Isn't that a motive for murder? Was it Tohme who decided that decided Michael should be injected with a cocktail of lethal drugs? Was it Tohme that Murray called before calling 911?

There are a lot of questions surrounding this Dr. Tohme. JMO

I of course am skeptical about this whole conspiracy theory thing -- but makes interesting reading:

"In the last year of Elvis's life Col. Tom Parker arranged for Elvis to do two shows a night in vegas.....this according to friends and reports is what may have killed him, two shows a night was too much. Both Elvis and Michael were in very ill health in their last year. Elvis apparently had bone cancer and Michael skin cancer. Elvis was poorly sighted with glaucoma and Michael was almost blind in one eye. Another very suspicious coincidence I have found, is both, may have had Alpha-1 antitrypsin deficiency according to Michael's biographer Ian Halperin and Elvis biographers, Thompson and Cole. Now I have never in my life heard of this illness and I doubt many others have. Someone, including Ian Halperin is mirroring Elvis big time....but who and for why?"

Interesting video -- you have to scroll down and you'll see it below this caption (Conspiracy /(Tom Parker Elvis Bus Mgr and Dr Tohme MJ Bus Mgr):

"Please watch this video, I think you will find it very interesting, especially the part about Col Tom and Dr. Tohme." (from the article - not my statement)

http://michaeljacksonconspiracytheory.blogspot.com/

[?WudScoobyDo]

I was just catchin a bit of news on MSNBC and Dr Nancy had the man who interviewed JJ this morning. He said that JJ was very hesitant, took eons to answer questions, and re the questions about how much about the drug abuse was known by the family, his lawyer/adviser kept telling him not to answer. When asked if he sees the three children, JJ said "I see them enough."


Its good to know that Joe is following the advice of his lawyer. Joe also stated this morning he knew nothing about propofol.

[?WudScoobyDo]

There are a lot of questions surrounding this Dr. Tohme. JMO

Interesting video -- you have to scroll down and you'll see it below this caption (Conspiracy / Elvis - Michael:

"Please watch this video, I think you will find it very interesting, especially the part about Col Tom and Dr. Tohme." (from the article - not my statement)

http://michaeljacksonconspiracytheory.blogspot.com/


Did you all know that AEG and its insurers were the people connected to Jimmy Hendrix when he died from a drug overdose too.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Which JJ are ya talking about? Joe, Jackie, Jermaine??


I see that you are new here, so we like to extend a hearty welcome to you. :wink:

[daniel green]

Which JJ are ya talking about? Joe, Jackie, Jermaine??

Ack! Sorry, my bad. I was typing on the run. JOE Jackson. The interviewer said that there were looooooooong pauses between questions and answers. He said that the Jacksons always do that. Also, that handlers kept popping in to tell JJ not to answer.

Also said that many of MJ's friends had been told by MJ that he never wanted his children to be around Joe J and that it was troubling that he was now. That he tried to hedge the answer by saying "I see them often enough."

MSNBC legal correspondent and a ex LA DA said that they would be surprised if only one doc is indicted--that at least Klein will too, as will the pharmacy. Also said that it was just as likely there will be no indictments because it is so complicated.

[Xenam]

Sorry, I missed your post. That's what I remembered.

Here ya go Cindy :)

But this column reported three days earlier that Michael’s longtime attorney, John Branca, had a will and would present it to the court. Branca was away on vacation and didn’t get back until the 29th. Sources say he showed the Jacksons the will that afternoon, then filed it with the court.

http://showbiz411.blogs.thr.com/michael-jackson-will-katherine-joe-branca-mcclain-executor/

[?WudScoobyDo]

Ack! Sorry, my bad. I was typing on the run. JOE Jackson. The interviewer said that there were looooooooong pauses between questions and answers. He said that the Jacksons always do that. Also, that handlers kept popping in to tell JJ not to answer.

Also said that many of MJ's friends had been told by MJ that he never wanted his children to be around Joe J and that it was troubling that he was now. That he tried to hedge the answer by saying "I see them often enough."

MSNBC legal correspondent and a ex LA DA said that they would be surprised if only one doc is indicted--that at least Klein will too, as will the pharmacy. Also said that it was just as likely there will be no indictments because it is so complicated.


I guess it all depends on which lawyers you are listening to. I heard last night that in all probabilty many will be arrested, and that Murray will be lucky if he is only charged with manslaughter, instead of 2nd degree murder.

Also ... its also better to ponder an answer than regret what answer you gave.. at least , imo.

[retiredcop]

Wasn't Mr. Branca on vacation, and cut it short and came home????? I think I remember that. Not sure though.

Oh, he may have been. I don't remember. It is just odd he was no where to be seen. I hope someone got the jewelry so it is saved for the children.

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

I think the world needs to accept that Michael Jackson was the victim of homicide, as well as other crimes committed against him. I don't think we know with any certainty that MJ made the choice to give him lethal doses of the various drugs. Another thing I felt was odd, is they say all the pill bottles were empty when they recovered the bottles. I think an addict would have some on hand instead of empty bottes. Were those bottles placed there after death and before 911 call?

:eek:.....................:chicken:

[Firehead11]

Its good to know that Joe is following the advice of his lawyer. Joe also stated this morning he knew nothing about propofol.


The bolding is mine. He is not alone in this.

[retiredcop]

:eek:.....................:chicken:

I feel the same way about the post itself.:chicken:

[Xenam]

I did not know MJ had recorded with Queen:

Queen's Brian May Upset At Leaked Freddie Mercury/Michael Jackson Tracks

Classic Rock Magazine is reporting that Queen guitarist Brian May is angry after “music thieves” exploited Michael Jackson’s death by releasing previously unheard tracks by Jackson and Queen’s late frontman Freddie Mercury on the Internet.

http://nightwatchershouseofrock.blogspot.com/2009/07/queens-brian-may-upset-at-leaked.html

[?WudScoobyDo]

:eek:.....................:chicken:

Chicken of me? with an eek? Am I being to blunt today? haha
:sneaky:

[retiredcop]

I just read the posts about Mr Branca being on vacation. Thanks. Anyway who got the jewelry? I am still hoping the children will get it.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

I did not know MJ had recorded with Queen:

Queen's Brian May Upset At Leaked Freddie Mercury/Michael Jackson Tracks

Classic Rock Magazine is reporting that Queen guitarist Brian May is angry after “music thieves” exploited Michael Jackson’s death by releasing previously unheard tracks by Jackson and Queen’s late frontman Freddie Mercury on the Internet.

http://nightwatchershouseofrock.blogspot.com/2009/07/queens-brian-may-upset-at-leaked.html


You and I must google the same stuff, because I saw that too.

[?WudScoobyDo]

I just read the posts about Mr Branca being on vacation. Thanks. Anyway who got the jewelry? I am still hoping the children will get it.

in my opinion

What jewelry? Aside from Paris, there were no woman relatives in the home, and all the pictures and video's of MJ don't show him wearing a lot of jewelry. IN a MJ interview he said he has purchased jewelry but to give to Liz Taylor.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

I did not know MJ had recorded with Queen:

Queen's Brian May Upset At Leaked Freddie Mercury/Michael Jackson Tracks

Classic Rock Magazine is reporting that Queen guitarist Brian May is angry after “music thieves” exploited Michael Jackson’s death by releasing previously unheard tracks by Jackson and Queen’s late frontman Freddie Mercury on the Internet.

http://nightwatchershouseofrock.blogspot.com/2009/07/queens-brian-may-upset-at-leaked.html

I wonder if Brian May is unaware that "State Of Shock" featuring Freddie Mercury instead of Mick Jagger was available on youtube.com over a year ago.

[?WudScoobyDo]

I wonder if Brian May is unaware that "State Of Shock" featuring Freddie Mercury instead of Mick Jagger was available on youtube.com over a year ago.

Evidently he didn't know, or perhaps there is more than one recording.

[Xenam]

Did you all know that AEG and its insurers were the people connected to Jimmy Hendrix when he died from a drug overdose too.

I remember his death also was suspicious but involved his then girlfriend. AEG is a live concert promoter and has promoted many concerts. Recently they also promoted Prince's concert in March and Alicia Keyes. JMO

[Lyndawitha"Y]

The more I read about what went on in MJ's life, his last year..the more I wonder how the man MJ carried on...so many players, and even Dr. Tohme admitts to isolating him..he was the one who fired Nanny Grace twice...no doubt the cook too...

I tend to have many questions indeed..Why did the family insist that MJ was given Demerol Injections every day?...Wonder where they got that little tid Bit from??? Demerol wasnt on the list of meds found in MJ's system at the time of his death....Why would they make a statement that MJ was given an injection at 11am that morning??as we nowknow he was found not breathing at 1045AM..and 911 wasnt called until 82 minutes later??..The calmness by the calling has always bothered me too..It not a wonder the Investigation is taking so long..

LMS

[Xenam]

If it were my child that was murdered, I would want answers also.

IMO, Brown will go after any Doctor that gave Jackson prescription drugs WITHOUT a medical reason. Sp all those doctors better make sure they have their patient files correct.

I agree with the fact that Jackson's death just might get some of these drugs place in the control substance lists. And actually bring the problem to the forefront of todays youth.

Joe Jackson blows hot wind most of the time but maybe this time, he has apoint. Anyone involved inthedeath of his son should be charged in one way or another.

Even if not charged I think any of these Doctor enablers should be blasted on the front page of the news and humilitated. JMHO

[♫Rock*Star♫]

Evidently he didn't know, or perhaps there is more than one recording.

A quick search on youtube.com would have brought up the posting of both songs from three years ago. I have the utmost respect for Brian May but I think he's got this one wrong.

Both songs were posted three years ago. Hardly "exploiting" Michael Jackson's death.

[Xenam]

The more I read about what went on in MJ's life, his last year..the more I wonder how the man MJ carried on...so many players, and even Dr. Tohme admitts to isolating him..he was the one who fired Nanny Grace twice...no doubt the cook too...

<snip>

LMS

I had reported this a while ago because of an interview I saw with Raymone Bain on the Geraldo Show shortly after MJ's death. She also said he fired her. Tohme claimed it was done with the direction of MJ but I do not believe that and neither did Bain. JMO

"One of the first things Tohme, an avowed music business neophyte, said he did when he took over was to fire many members of Jackson's staff, including security guards, in order to build a fence around the singer and protect him from nameless others who wanted to control the pop star's finances. He also claimed to have twice fired, on Jackson's orders, the longtime nanny of the singers' children, Grace Rawaramba."

Denying he is affiliated with the Nation of Islam, Tohme said he actually fired some representatives of the religious sect who had taken over handling affairs for Jackson, who was raised as a Jehovah's Witness. The AP report described him as being on the verge of tears several times while discussing Jackson's death and said he was breaking his silence now because it is what Jackson wanted.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1615320/20090706/jackson_michael.jhtml

[?WudScoobyDo]

A quick search on youtube.com would have brought up the posting of both songs from three years ago. I have the utmost respect for Brian May but I think he's got this one wrong.

Both songs were posted three years ago. Hardly "exploiting" Michael Jackson's death.


Did Brian May specifically speak of those two songs?

[♫Rock*Star♫]

Did Brian May specifically speak of those two songs?

But May has been left incensed after two tunes by the pair, State Of Shock and There Must Be More To Life Than This, ended up on YouTube.

From the link posted above.

[?WudScoobyDo]

But May has been left incensed after two tunes by the pair, State Of Shock and There Must Be More To Life Than This, ended up on YouTube.

From the link posted above.


Thank you.

[Xenam]

But May has been left incensed after two tunes by the pair, State Of Shock and There Must Be More To Life Than This, ended up on YouTube.

From the link posted above.

You are correct -- Both 2006:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_BwMtPeWU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7hrUU-UeHk

[♫Rock*Star♫]

You are correct -- Both 2006:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_BwMtPeWU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7hrUU-UeHk

Yes... I remember finding both recordings last year. I was looking to listen to "State Of Shock" as I had not heard that tune in years.

I was surprised to find both of these tunes with Michael.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Yes... I remember finding both recordings last year. I was looking to listen to "State Of Shock" as I had not heard that tune in years.

I was surprised to find both of these tunes with Michael.

Well.. have you heard the one with Slash? haha
:tongueside:

[♫Rock*Star♫]

My previous post should read "I was surprised to find both of these tunes with Freddie." :biggrin:

[♫Rock*Star♫]

Well.. have you heard the one with Slash? haha
:tongueside:

Was it "Dirty Diana?"

[?WudScoobyDo]

My previous post should read "I was surprised to find both of these tunes with Freddie." :biggrin:


Could be one of the reasons Michael became so involved with AIDS charities, and donating so much money and time... etc... for that cause.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Was it "Dirty Diana?"

I was watching Dirty Diana last night..and this morning ..haha, and I was trying to figure out who was playing with him. It didn't look like Slash, but it was some long haired hard core rockers. I was talking about "Give in to me" in my previous post.

[Cindylee]

Here ya go Cindy :)

But this column reported three days earlier that Michael’s longtime attorney, John Branca, had a will and would present it to the court. Branca was away on vacation and didn’t get back until the 29th. Sources say he showed the Jacksons the will that afternoon, then filed it with the court.

http://showbiz411.blogs.thr.com/michael-jackson-will-katherine-joe-branca-mcclain-executor/

thanks. :smile:

[♫Rock*Star♫]

I was watching Dirty Diana last night..and this morning ..haha, and I was trying to figure out who was playing with him. It didn't look like Slash, but it was some long haired hard core rockers. I was talking about "Give in to me" in my previous post.

Steve Stevens is the one playing guitar on "Dirty Diana."

Billy Idol's former guitarist. As I have never been a big fan of the "hair" bands of the '80s, I confused Slash with Steve Stevens. :shrug:

[♫Rock*Star♫]

I was watching Dirty Diana last night..and this morning ..haha, and I was trying to figure out who was playing with him. It didn't look like Slash, but it was some long haired hard core rockers. I was talking about "Give in to me" in my previous post.

A little trivia... Sheryl Crow plays "Diana" in the video. According to wikipedia, she was a back-up singer for Michael at the time.

[Cindylee]

I remember his death also was suspicious but involved his then girlfriend. AEG is a live concert promoter and has promoted many concerts. Recently they also promoted Prince's concert in March and Alicia Keyes. JMO

They also do the American idol tour.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Steve Stevens is the one playing guitar on "Dirty Diana."

Billy Idol's former guitarist. As I have never been a big fan of the "hair" bands of the '80s, I confused Slash with Steve Stevens. :shrug:


I was always somewhat partial to the hair. The bands were ok, but the hair was great.

[?WudScoobyDo]

A little trivia... Sheryl Crow plays "Diana" in the video. According to wikipedia, she was a back-up singer for Michael at the time.

REally...is there a woman in that video? I guess I didn't notice, but I did see an interview with Sheryl, and she did indicate that she was a back up singer for him.

[retiredcop]

What jewelry? Aside from Paris, there were no woman relatives in the home, and all the pictures and video's of MJ don't show him wearing a lot of jewelry. IN a MJ interview he said he has purchased jewelry but to give to Liz Taylor.

Whatever jewelry LaToya claimed was stolen from the mansion. It may not have been "a lot" of jewelry, but if there was any there, it is the children's to have.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

REally...is there a woman in that video? I guess I didn't notice, but I did see an interview with Sheryl, and she did indicate that she was a back up singer for him.

What does this have to do with Mr Jackson's death?

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

Somehow, I thought that Coldwater said this thread was about the death of Michael Jackson not a walk down memory lane of his music. What does this have to do with his death?

His music and fame because of the music is what contributed to his death. I see a connection.

[?WudScoobyDo]

What does this have to do with Mr Jackson's death?

in my opinion


She was being interviewed in connection with MJ's murder, so theres your connection.

[retiredcop]

His music and fame because of the music is what contributed to his death. I see a connection.

I don't see a connection at all. Link?

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

I don't see a connection at all.

in my opinion


And...your point?

[retiredcop]

She was being interviewed in connection with MJ's murder, so theres your connection.

Link to connection.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Link to connection.

I imagine you could find it somewhere, but I'm not looking for you.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

All I know is that I wish California had the "Sunshine Law"..which would get us all up to speed just where they are in their investigation..instead we are at the mercy of tabloidy type of leaked information, which leaves us all to try and piece things together...

I think the only thing that is clear to me is the Propofol links and what ultimately caused MJ to die...and who infused it at the time of his death..all the rest of so complicated and difficult to link together...Far too many players to keep up with, and far too many koinkidinks that spell suspicions in so many directions..my head is swimming...TY all for at least trying to connect the dots..or trying to put things into some perspective..I appreciate that...

BTW..MJ was to be laid to rest on his 51st birthday..has it been confirmed tohave actually happened?? I would like to think he can at least rest in peace even at this late date..

LMS

[Cindylee]

Neither do I but she will post anything to build up her post count. MJ is dead but not buried. I find that repulsive on the part of the family.

We'll see if the burial goes on as planned for Thurs. Glendale is a mess right now.

[daniel green]

snipped

I tend to have many questions indeed..Why did the family insist that MJ was given Demerol Injections every day?...Wonder where they got that little tid Bit from??? Demerol wasnt on the list of meds found in MJ's system at the time of his death

We do not have the tox report, so we don't know what MJ had in his system at time of death.

[Unperson1984]

I tried to find something about it, but no luck. I just remember it was about the will, and Kathrine went to court and said there was no will, and Mr.Branca came back from being out of the country, and produced the will. Does that ring a bell with anyone else?

I remember that Branca was livid when on Monday Katherine filed there was no Will, he has spoken to both her and her lawyers on Friday and told them there was a valid Will.

IIRC he was going to file a complaint with the CBA.

[Cindylee]

All I know is that I wish California had the "Sunshine Law"..which would get us all up to speed just where they are in their investigation..instead we are at the mercy of tabloidy type of leaked information, which leaves us all to try and piece things together...

I think the only thing that is clear to me is the Propofol links and what ultimately caused MJ to die...and who infused it at the time of his death..all the rest of so complicated and difficult to link together...Far too many players to keep up with, and far too many koinkidinks that spell suspicions in so many directions..my head is swimming...TY all for at least trying to connect the dots..or trying to put things into some perspective..I appreciate that...

BTW..MJ was to be laid to rest on his 51st birthday..has it been confirmed tohave actually happened?? I would like to think he can at least rest in peace even at this late date..

LMS

The burial is planned for the 3rd. They changed it from his birthday. Joe said something about schools in the area starting or something.

[Cindylee]

---------------

The plans will probably change again. imo

They may. But, I guess we can't blame the fires on the Jackson's. :laugh:

[Cindylee]

I remember that Branca was livid when on Monday Katherine filed there was no Will, he has spoken to both her and her lawyers on Friday and told them there was a valid Will.

IIRC he was going to file a complaint with the CBA.


I remember that. We all talked about it here. The news had already reported that Branca had a will, and Kathrine filed that claim anyway. :shrug:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

The burial is planned for the 3rd. They changed it from his birthday. Joe said something about schools in the area starting or something.

TY Cindylee..I just found the links that showed me all the delays..and yep Sept 3rd seems to be the latest date..I wont hold my breath..but hope it does come to fruition...finally..Shades of James Brown..family dyfunction I guess...yikes...

LMS

[Cindylee]

TY Cindylee..I just found the links that showed me all the delays..and yep Sept 3rd seems to be the latest date..I wont hold my breath..but hope it does come to fruition...finally..Shades of James Brown..family dyfunction I guess...yikes...

LMS

I just found the tmz link. First it was to be on his birthday, then Aug.31, but that was the opening day of school, so yes, now the 3rd. We'll see. :wink:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

--------------------

The world needs to accept your opinions? i think not. MJ caused his own death. imo

Except the COD apparantly was a lethal dose of Diprivan..which is something Mj could not give himself..but if you mean rhetorically, because he sought drugs caused his death..then maybe indirectly you have a point...MJ has been found guilty of that tho, and has died already...its time now for all the other players to pay up on some legal level...

LMS

[Unperson1984]

Upthread I read that MJ was found at 10:45 not breathing, has new information been released?

:confused:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

---------------------

No one knows just EXACTLY what MJ was or was not able to do. And that fact cant be debated. imo

You are correct only in that you cannot debate something you dont have any understanding...for myself..I do have first hand knowledge of not only this drug Propofol, but the synergistic effects of all the drugs found in his system...so yep..You are correct on my bolded statement on your post..

LMS

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Upthread I read that MJ was found at 10:45 not breathing, has new information been released?

:confused:

This what I found..it says 82 minutes before 911 call..that 1045 time has been bandied about..however I think since Murray says he gave dose of 25mg of Diprivan at 1042..and he left room for 2 minutes..then returned to find MJ not breathing..some may have extrapilated that time..who knows??


http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/entertainment/dialing-911-mjs-doc-waited-82-mins_100238409.html

Murray told police he was continuously monitoring Jackson all night at the singer’s Holmby Hills mansion and had administered what would be the singer’s final dose of propofol, a hospital-strength anesthetic, at around 1040 hours.

From same link~~
Police later obtained Murray’s cell phone records, which revealed he was on the phone for 47 minutes – in three separate calls – beginning at 1118 hours, something he did not reveal to investigators, according to the affidavit

interesting..


LMS

[daniel green]

Upthread I read that MJ was found at 10:45 not breathing, has new information been released?

:confused:

Nope. No new info.

[Cindylee]

It really will be interesting to see if the service planned for the 3rd, does go on. I have been watching the fires carefully, as I grew up in the area. The last report about the service was that it was going to cost the Jackson family triple what it would have cost if it had been held on Sat. his birthday. The cost increase was for a helicopter, and for police to close streets etc. With the fires, I would think that every available officer and helicopter will be needed elsewhere. My thinking anyway.

[?WudScoobyDo]

--------------------

The world needs to accept your opinions? i think not. MJ caused his own death. imo


Since I share the same opinion as the coroner, then Yes, I'd say the world does.

[GentleBreeze]

It really will be interesting to see if the service planned for the 3rd, does go on. I have been watching the fires carefully, as I grew up in the area. The last report about the service was that it was going to cost the Jackson family triple what it would have cost if it had been held on Sat. his birthday. The cost increase was for a helicopter, and for police to close streets etc. With the fires, I would think that every available officer and helicopter will be needed elsewhere. My thinking anyway.

Why would they have to close the streets? I thought all the services were going to be done on the grounds inside of Forest Lawn.

If they were going to have helicopter detail wouldn't they have still had that no matter when he was buried?:confused:

[?WudScoobyDo]

--------------

Earlier today i seen a poll asking about if people still had interest in whats going on with MJ............85% said NO.

The Jacksons should have to pay............they can afford it. imo


I guess we are the remaining 15 %.

[?WudScoobyDo]

It really will be interesting to see if the service planned for the 3rd, does go on. I have been watching the fires carefully, as I grew up in the area. The last report about the service was that it was going to cost the Jackson family triple what it would have cost if it had been held on Sat. his birthday. The cost increase was for a helicopter, and for police to close streets etc. With the fires, I would think that every available officer and helicopter will be needed elsewhere. My thinking anyway.


Is Glendale near to LaCanada/Flintridge. Because there is just the hugest cloud of white smoke overhead there, even bigger than yesterday?

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Why would they have to close the streets? I thought all the services were going to be done on the grounds inside of Forest Lawn.

If they were going to have helicopter detail wouldn't they have still had that no matter when he was buried?:confused:

GB..that crossed my mind as well...No streets or traffic detail needed..as MJ is already onsite...no funeral procession thru the streets will happen...I have to wonder just what they are speaking to in regards to such a high costing factor??..Maybe securing a perimeter..or to keep lookyloo's away..What I have to ask as well, why not just pick a day when everyone is available and do it already?..no need to media blitz it to create a circus necessary...

LMS:confused:

[Cindylee]

Why would they have to close the streets? I thought all the services were going to be done on the grounds inside of Forest Lawn.

If they were going to have helicopter detail wouldn't they have still had that no matter when he was buried?:confused:

Don't know? For the drive from the "compound" to Forest lawn????


www.tmz.com

Home >> Michael Jackson, Exclusives >> Michael Jackson Burial Triples in Price
Michael Jackson Burial Triples in Price

Posted Aug 27th 2009 2:00AM by TMZ Staff

Michael JacksonThe Jackson family's decision to move Michael's burial from a Saturday to a Thursday is gonna cost some serious dough -- at least three times the original price!

According to the Glendale police, the cost for the weekend service would have ran about $50,000 -- 90% of which goes to police handling street closures, security and perimeter control.

But officials say the Jackson family will now have to fork over "at least triple the price" to contract the cops for a weekday burial.

As for the cemetery, we're told it will be on total lockdown -- with security patrolling from the ground and from the air. At least one police chopper will be keeping an eye from the sky.

And just to prove the cops mean business, Sergeant Tom Lorenz is warning uninvited fans, "Don't even try and come, because you won't even be able to see the green of the Forest Lawn."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/27/michael-jackson-burial-triples-in-price/#ixzz0PnSXbEKz

[?WudScoobyDo]

I would be interested in your learned opinion how how his music contributed to his death. You are grasping at straws imo.


It started with music, then went to fame, leading to money, leading to bad people wanting his money, leading to stress and also physical pain ( the accident and the physical work for a show), leading to greedy doctors, which ended in his death.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Speaking of helicopters. I did hear on the news that the one that carried MJ's body, is now being used to rescue people trapped in the fire.

[Cindylee]

GB..that crossed my mind as well...No streets or traffic detail needed..as MJ is already onsite...no funeral procession thru the streets will happen...I have to wonder just what they are speaking to in regards to such a high costing factor??..Maybe securing a perimeter..or to keep lookyloo's away..What I have to ask as well, why not just pick a day when everyone is available and do it already?..no need to media blitz it to create a circus necessary...

LMS:confused:

My thinking is that there will be a big ta do over it again. The black limos taking the family to Forest Lawn. Why helicopters???

[?WudScoobyDo]

My thinking is that there will be a big ta do over it again. The black limos taking the family to Forest Lawn. Why helicopters???

I can see one police helicopter there with the above view, in order to direct the ground officers where or if they see crowd problems.

[Cindylee]

I can see one police helicopter there with the above view, in order to direct the ground officers where or if they see crowd problems.

My point weeks ago, when it was announced, was if they wanted private, they shouldn't have announced it. Then there would be no crowds, or the need for a helicopter.

[Cindylee]

----------------
Just more excuses for MJ.
lots of people have pain and stress and deal with it w/o turning to drugs. imo

True......

[?WudScoobyDo]

-----------------
True, Cindy and i agree. But the problem is that the jacksons cant and wont keep their mouths shut.....they want a full blown circus. imo


Maybe they were trying to stifle all those strangers out there, who feel its their business to decide when he should, or should have been buried.

[Cindylee]

--------------

This is OT. There is a thread for that. imo

That was my fault Buzzzzz, I brought up the fires. I will find the thread. Thanks.

[Cindylee]

Well since you have continuously made excuses for his behavior, I am not surprised at your response. Fact is that MJ was a 50 year old adult. Be it percieved or not. I am as an adult responsible for my own actions, some of which I paid a price for. MJ was no different than that. He had every resourse in the World to seek help for his proclivities and yet he chose not to. In the history of mankind, I have never read that there was anyone like him. He was the master of his own destiny and like many many Pop Stars before him he chose the forbidden fruit that ultimately killed him. Whether he had help or not, he asked for it and got what he wanted. He courted the edge of death and Death Won.

It is sad, but true. We are all responsible for our own actions. Murray and the other Dr.s also.

Good post.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Well since you have continuously made excuses for his behavior, I am not surprised at your response. Fact is that MJ was a 50 year old adult. Be it percieved or not. I am as an adult responsible for my own actions, some of which I paid a price for. MJ was no different than that. He had every resourse in the World to seek help for his proclivities and yet he chose not to. In the history of mankind, I have never read that there was anyone like him. He was the master of his own destiny and like many many Pop Stars before him he chose the forbidden fruit that ultimately killed him. Whether he had help or not, he asked for it and got what he wanted. He courted the edge of death and Death Won.


Michael Jackson is the victim of homicide, not suicide, not overdose.

[Cindylee]

Michael Jackson is the victim of homicide, not suicide, not overdose.

It gets a bit frustrating discussing his death, if some cannot even acknowledge that MJ had a responsibility to his children and himself. There would have been no Dr. Murray if MJ, had taken a different road for himself.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

It gets a bit frustrating discussing his death, if some cannot even acknowledge that MJ had a responsibility to his children and himself. There would have been no Dr. Murray if MJ, had taken a different road for himself.

You know, you are correct, and I do believe that right after MJ's death someone stated it was Dr. Murray who was the "Last Man Standing"..no one has even floated the idea that MJ was not a Drug Addict, who chose not to heed warnings from some of his friends, Doctors amongst them, and according to Nurse Lee, weeks before his death, did not heed the warnings..

There are so many involved with MJ's Drug history, it likely would boggle even our minds to just what extent..thus tells you just how difficult it has been for LE to investigate..and try and put it all together. Who knows, maybe there is some sort of connection to a "Conspiracy"..we have only floated as a possibility.. There seems to be alot of blame to go around..not in the least MJ himself....

Having said all that tho, there is also the factor of MJ being in control of his enviornment??..Now Im not so sure after reading what I have in the past few weeks..MJ is now, but more importantly was a "Cash Cow" for many..not all by any means...but suffice to say..I just dont trust some of the characters that surrounded MJ...Self inflicted? circumstances?..maybe..but the jury is still out on exactly what really happened..except of course that a lethal dose of drugs cause his death..which he did not give himself...maybe asked for..could be???but he hired someone who was suppose to know how to give them..Am I wrong about that?

LMS

[Cindylee]

You know, you are correct, and I do believe that right after MJ's death someone stated it was Dr. Murray who was the "Last Man Standing"..no one has even floated the idea that MJ was not a Drug Addict, who chose not to heed warnings from some of his friends, Doctors amongst them, and according to Nurse Lee, weeks before his death, did not heed the warnings..

There are so many involved with MJ's Drug history, it likely would boggle even our minds to just what extent..thus tells you just how difficult it has been for LE to investigate..and try and put it all together. Who knows, maybe there is some sort of connection to a "Conspiracy"..we have only floated as a possibility.. There seems to be alot of blame to go around..not in the least MJ himself....

Having said all that tho, there is also the factor of MJ being in control of his enviornment??..Now Im not so sure after reading what I have in the past few weeks..MJ is now, but more importantly was a "Cash Cow" for many..not all by any means...but suffice to say..I just dont trust some of the characters that surrounded MJ...Self inflicted? circumstances?..maybe..but the jury is still out on exactly what really happened..except of course that a lethal dose of drugs cause his death..which he did not give himself...maybe asked for..could be???but he hired someone who was suppose to know how to give them..Am I wrong about that?

LMS

No, I don't think you are wrong about that.

[?WudScoobyDo]

There is also a school of thought that MJ was trying to get clean, shortly prior to his murder.

[Unperson1984]

Has there been any rumors about why MJ was going to Klein's office before Office Hours three days a week?