8/27

[flipflop]

Michael Jackson Burial Triples in Price

Posted Aug 27th 2009 2:00AM by TMZ Staff

Michael JacksonThe Jackson family's decision to move Michael's burial from a Saturday to a Thursday is gonna cost some serious dough -- at least three times the original price!

According to the Glendale police, the cost for for the weekend service would have ran about $50,000 -- 90% of which goes to police handling street closures, security and perimeter control.

But officials say the Jackson family will now have to fork over "at least triple the price" to contract the cops for a weekday burial.

As for the cemetery, we're told it will be on total lockdown -- with security patrolling from the ground and from the air. At least one police chopper will be keeping an eye from the sky.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PNgu4A5X

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/27/michael-jackson-burial-triples-in-price/

[GentleBreeze]

I am bringing this post over from yesterday's thread.

Yes. Of course he could have. And he should have.

But addicts are very seductive, manipulative people and MJ was a wealthy, superstar taboot. I see him as preying on people in order to get what he wanted - and the most vulnerable, for whatever reason, got sucked in.

In Murray's case, he was in debt up to his eyeballs and probably a little starstruck. Contrary to what many people think, a person caught in the spiral of addiction focuses constantly on obtaining and using the drug, regardless of the cost.

Who knows what MJ really told Dr. Murray? :sad:

imo

I am not sure the justice system looks at it this way though. I do think they have learned that people who are addicted to drugs are very vulnerable people and no one knows that anymore than these licensed doctors who feed the addicted person with more drugs. If the addict has money then the doctors know they can be paid an exorbitant amount of money for their "services.":rolleyes: (high priced licensed drug pushers)

The doctors who do these things certainly aren't victims except maybe by their own greed.

It is only logical that someone addicted to drugs will want drugs and will pay any price to get it especially if they have the money to do it. To me the justice system is very aware of that and because they are addicted they become vulnerable no matter who they are. I think some of us would be astounded by what amount MJ had to pay in order to keep his addiction fed just because they knew he had money. That too is taking full advantage of a drug addict who these doctors know will pay any amount asked even if it is ridiculous amount.

So MJ wanting the drugs is what any person who is a hard core addict does but the doctors who takes an oath to "do no harm" are perfectly aware they are playing fast and loose with someone's life but it seems the doctors have the rule of "as long as you pay we will play."

I don't think Murray even took this job all for the money. I think he very much liked the celeb atmosphere and hobnobbing with the stars just like he probably did when he was James Brown's personal physician.

I think these type of doctors prey on these kind of people and keep them addicted instead of trying to offer help to them. It keeps the victim in their control because the victim knows these doctors have what it takes to keep their insatiable craving satisfied and they are willing to supply it to them.

So if Murray is a victim it is by his own design. No one made him do this. He jumped right in there with both feet and started administering MJ with diprivan when he first came on the scene and according to him he even set it up to be done in Las Vegas even before he became MJs personal physician. So it sounds like to me that Murray may have been a Dr. Feel Good and a "go to" guy even before he came to the Holmby mansion.

imo

[retiredcop]

Dr Murray tried to ween Mr Jackson off Diprivan. I also believe he is the victim here. Mr Jackson never had any intention of getting off any drugs. He was so addicted he was heading for an early death. He knew the danger of Diprivan and wanted it anyway. I feel sorry for Dr Murray.

I hope the funeral doesn't turn into another circus for the children's sake. The Jacksons should not have announced the time and place. I can't imagine why they did except they love the lime light.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Dr Murray tried to ween Mr Jackson off Diprivan. I also believe he is the victim here. Mr Jackson never had any intention of getting off any drugs. He was so addicted he was heading for an early death. He knew the danger of Diprivan and wanted it anyway. I feel sorry for Dr Murray.

I hope the funeral doesn't turn into another circus for the children's sake. The Jacksons should not have announced the time and place. I can't imagine why they did except they love the lime light.

in my opinion

Why would it be a circus and when has there been the first circus? The memorial was extremely well done and everyone was very respectful. This service is for family and close friends only.

I don't think there is any evidence to backup Dr. Murray's words. I don't think the Coroner or LE believed Murray for one second. MJ did not have weening amounts found. He died from a lethal overdose of driprivan.

I believe Murray made self serving statements thinking that the diprivan wouldn't be found in large amounts in MJs body at the time of autopsy.

I think the Jackson family wants all of MJs fans to know he will be laid to rest.

imo

[angellaw]

IMO..MJ should have been laid to rest when they did the first services. I just can not imagine why they are dragging this thing out so long.:confused:

[puppies]

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-me-jackson-drug27-2009aug27,0,4867035.story?track=rss

Dr. Conrad Murray told police he injected 25 milligrams the night the pop star died. Experts say that dose would have little effect on an average patient, and possibly no effect on a regular user.

If Michael Jackson died from lethal levels of the powerful anesthetic propofol, then he must have been injected with much more of the drug than his personal physician reportedly told police he gave the pop star, medical experts said.

--
"It doesn't make any sense," said Dr. John Dombrowski, a member of the American Society of Anesthesiologists. "I cannot believe that was the number that was given. Such a small amount won't tip anyone over in terms of respiratory depression."

What's more likely, Dombrowski said, is that the numbers in the documents are somehow in error. Murray might not have provided an infusion rate, such as 25 milligrams every few minutes, or police might not have understood the medical terminology, Dombrowski said.

--

The medical experts said that if the propofol dosage were higher and combined with other medications, it could have led to an overdose.

Dr. Scott Engwall, vice chair of anesthesiology at UC Irvine's School of Medicine, said that for an average person without a high tolerance to drugs, 50 milligrams of propofol might be enough to make them doze off for five or 10 minutes. But the drug would immediately wear off. Someone like Jackson, who had been using it nightly for as many as six weeks, according to Murray's testimony, might close his eyes briefly -- or it might not work at all, Engwall and other doctors said.

"I think it's not unreasonable that there is some part of this picture we still do not know," Engwall said.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.examiner.com/x-4732-Celebrity-Travel-Examiner~y2009m8d26-Michael-Jackson-wax-sculpture-to-be-unveiled-in-Hollywood

A wax sculpture of Michael Jackson will be unveiled at Madame Tussauds in Hollywood on Thursday, August 27, in honor of Michael Jackson's upcoming birthday on August 29.

imo

[retiredcop]

http://www.examiner.com/x-4732-Celebrity-Travel-Examiner~y2009m8d26-Michael-Jackson-wax-sculpture-to-be-unveiled-in-Hollywood

A wax sculpture of Michael Jackson will be unveiled at Madame Tussauds in Hollywood on Thursday, August 27, in honor of Michael Jackson's upcoming birthday on August 29.

imo

I always thought Madame Tussauds was so creepy.:scared:

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Michael Jackson Burial Triples in Price

Posted Aug 27th 2009 2:00AM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson The Jackson family's decision to move Michael's burial from a Saturday to a Thursday is gonna cost some serious dough -- at least three times the original price!

According to the Glendale police, the cost for for the weekend service would have ran about $50,000 -- 90% of which goes to police handling street closures, security and perimeter control.

But officials say the Jackson family will now have to fork over "at least triple the price" to contract the cops for a weekday burial.

As for the cemetery, we're told it will be on total lockdown -- with security patrolling from the ground and from the air. At least one police chopper will be keeping an eye from the sky.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PNgu4A5X

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/27/michael-jackson-burial-triples-in-price/

Isn't this all to take place on the private grounds of FL where MJ is at now?

You know in a way I find this very unfair.

The Jackson family has made it plain that the services are going to be private with close friends and family members only. So if a fan shows up on their own accord disregarding what the Jacksons have made clear..... the Jacksons are the ones that are punished monetarily for it????????????:thumbdown:

Is this going to be another case like the memorial where too many LE were on duty yet charged for and the police all showed up but very few fans did because LE had repeatedly over and over again told them not to come? And they did as they were instructed yet the police turns in an exorbitant bill for services not even needed.

Just another method of getting more money on someone else's dime imo.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I always thought Madame Tussauds was so creepy.:scared:

in my opinion

Why?

I love wax museums. The sculptures are so life like. I really admire the artistic talent.

imo

[retiredcop]

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-me-jackson-drug27-2009aug27,0,4867035.story?track=rss

Dr. Conrad Murray told police he injected 25 milligrams the night the pop star died. Experts say that dose would have little effect on an average patient, and possibly no effect on a regular user.

If Michael Jackson died from lethal levels of the powerful anesthetic propofol, then he must have been injected with much more of the drug than his personal physician reportedly told police he gave the pop star, medical experts said.

--
"It doesn't make any sense," said Dr. John Dombrowski, a member of the American Society of Anesthesiologists. "I cannot believe that was the number that was given. Such a small amount won't tip anyone over in terms of respiratory depression."

What's more likely, Dombrowski said, is that the numbers in the documents are somehow in error. Murray might not have provided an infusion rate, such as 25 milligrams every few minutes, or police might not have understood the medical terminology, Dombrowski said.

--

The medical experts said that if the propofol dosage were higher and combined with other medications, it could have led to an overdose.

Dr. Scott Engwall, vice chair of anesthesiology at UC Irvine's School of Medicine, said that for an average person without a high tolerance to drugs, 50 milligrams of propofol might be enough to make them doze off for five or 10 minutes. But the drug would immediately wear off. Someone like Jackson, who had been using it nightly for as many as six weeks, according to Murray's testimony, might close his eyes briefly -- or it might not work at all, Engwall and other doctors said.

"I think it's not unreasonable that there is some part of this picture we still do not know," Engwall said.

Is it just me or did that information on Mr Jackson dying from a lethal dose of Diprivan come from the S/W? If so, and that information has not been officially realeased in the autopsy report or the tox report, I take anything from the S/W with a large grain of salt.:mellow:

in my opinion

[Eagleeye]

Is it just me or did that information on Mr Jackson dying from a lethal dose of Diprivan come from the S/W? If so, and that information has not been officially realeased in the autopsy report or the tox report, I take anything from the S/W with a large grain of salt.:mellow:

in my opinion

Best you save some of your salt for Crow Pie. I have enough for mine. :laugh:

[retiredcop]

Why?

I love wax museums. The sculptures are so life like. I really admire the artistic talent.

imo

That's the trouble. They are so life like.:eek:

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Best you save some of your salt for Crow Pie. I have enough for mine. :laugh:

I always have plenty of salt.:biggrin:

I got extra because there will be a run on it with the large numbers of posters at the crow banquet.

[GentleBreeze]

Is it just me or did that information on Mr Jackson dying from a lethal dose of Diprivan come from the S/W? If so, and that information has not been officially released in the autopsy report or the tox report, I take anything from the S/W with a large grain of salt.:mellow:

in my opinion

I take what is in the actual SW with much more credibility than I do the media or lawyers, that is for sure.

But I have to agree with the expert. It doesn't make sense and I don't think Murray came close to telling the truth.

Just like he supposedly forgot to mention to LE he had been on his cell phone for 47 minutes during this crucial time.

Who I don't believe are defense lawyers. Just like I didn't believe MG when he came out and said his infamous client was "stone cold innocent." :smile:

imo

[Eagleeye]

http://www.examiner.com/x-4732-Celebrity-Travel-Examiner~y2009m8d26-Michael-Jackson-wax-sculpture-to-be-unveiled-in-Hollywood

A wax sculpture of Michael Jackson will be unveiled at Madame Tussauds in Hollywood on Thursday, August 27, in honor of Michael Jackson's upcoming birthday on August 29.

imo

I see from the slide show that they didn't show the new and improved version of MJ. You know the emaciated one with the prosthetic nose. :scared:

[GentleBreeze]

That's the trouble. They are so life like.:eek:

in my opinion

LOL! Oh, IKWYM. Sometimes I can feel like their eyes are following me around the room but I guess that shows how great the artist really is.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I see from the slide show that they didn't show the new and improved version of MJ. You know the emaciated one with the prosthetic nose. :scared:

Sorry, I didnt see that one.

I did just see a still shot of him at rehearsals.

Looked great to me.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/aug/27/michael-jackson-documentary-photographs

Ortega said: "This film shows a consummate performer working with and guiding singers, dancers, band members, choreographers, special effects creators and countless other creative members of the team as we all assemble this historic concert.

"This Is It may go down as the greatest concert that no one got a chance to see, but with this film, we get a rare portrait of Michael as he prepares for his final curtain-call and what I believe was going to be his master work."

imo

[Eagleeye]

I always have plenty of salt.:biggrin:

I got extra because there will be a run on it with the large numbers of posters at the crow banquet.

Are you sending out the invitations to the banquet or shall I? :laugh:

[puppies]

Experts,experts,they are driving me nuts sometimes:cursing:

"The medical experts said that if the propofol dosage were higher and combined with other medications, it could have led to an overdose."


Well if so,why are they talking about LETHAL LEVELS of PROPOFOL .
Lethal levels of propofol isn't the same with propofol+other meds overdose.

[retiredcop]

I take what is in the actual SW with much more credibility than I do the media or lawyers, that is for sure.

But I have to agree with the expert. It doesn't make sense and I don't think Murray came close to telling the truth.

Just like he supposedly forgot to mention to LE he had been on his cell phone for 47 minutes during this crucial time.

Who I don't believe are defense lawyers. Just like I didn't believe MG when he came out and said his infamous client was "stone cold innocent." :smile:

imo


S/Ws can have lots of descriptiveness because it only shows probable cause to search. Those phone calls were not during a crucial time. He was found not to be breathing at 12:05. If he was not breathing at 11:00 the EMTs and the ER doctors would not have worked on him as long as they did. Also, I believe those phone calls were made from the room Mr Jackson was in.

The fire captain on the scene said nothing at all about the EMTs wanting to call him dead. The report from the fire department is in the hands of the coroner. It is sealed to us.

Mr Murray's attorney was with the Dr when he spoke with police. So saying the Dr didn't say those things in the search warrant is no doubt correct. Have you seen the Dr's official statements? No, because they haven't been released. All the information you are going on is an old search warrant. Keep those rose colored glasses on. You wear them so well.:biggrin:

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Are you sending out the invitations to the banquet or shall I? :laugh:

You can just make an announcement. Everyone here is going to be choking down crow for some of their beliefs all along. :laugh:

Some think they have won this silly game if the coroner rules this a homicide. Not so. It doesn't end there and many posts all along will not match most of what is in the autopsy.

in my opinion

[Eagleeye]

You can just make an announcement. Everyone here is going to be choking down crow for some of their beliefs all along. :laugh:

Some think they have won this silly game if the coroner rules this a homicide. Not so. It doesn't end there and many posts all along will not match most of what is in the autopsy.

in my opinion

As Horatio Caine would say "we shall see, we shall see".

[GentleBreeze]

S/Ws can have lots of descriptiveness because it only shows probable cause to search. Those phone calls were not during a crucial time. He was found not to be breathing at 12:05. If he was not breathing at 11:00 the EMTs and the ER doctors would not have worked on him as long as they did. Also, I believe those phone calls were made from the room Mr Jackson was in.

The fire captain on the scene said nothing at all about the EMTs wanting to call him dead. The report from the fire department is in the hands of the coroner. It is sealed to us.

Mr Murray's attorney was with the Dr when he spoke with police. So saying the Dr didn't say those things in the search warrant is no doubt correct. Have you seen the Dr's official statements? No, because they haven't been released. All the information you are going on is an old search warrant. Keep those rose colored glasses on. You wear them so well.:biggrin:
in my opinion

I would really appreciate it very much if you did not make comments about me personally, retired.

It is totally unnecessary and uncalled for. Just debate the case, ok?

All I know is this officer has a sworn affidavit. He put his credibility up in his sworn statement and I do not think he would put any misinformation in such a high profile case. I don't think the officer is the bad guy here but I certainly do believe that Murray is and LE knows it and that is why they have not come out and ruled him out as being responsible for MJs death so that Murray can come out of his house and get on with his life.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

You can just make an announcement. Everyone here is going to be choking down crow for some of their beliefs all along. :laugh:

Some think they have won this silly game if the coroner rules this a homicide. Not so. It doesn't end there and many posts all along will not match most of what is in the autopsy.

in my opinion

Since when have opinions on a message board just become a silly immature game? I have never ever understood that foolishness since I have been a member here for many years, Never have I told someone they had to eat crow because their opinions differed and in the end I just got lucky and called the cases right. That seems very egotistical and arrogant behavior to me.

Is that all it's about? Winning the game? Being right or wrong? How revolting and so incredibly childish imo.

imo

[Cindylee]

Isn't this all to take place on the private grounds of FL where MJ is at now?

You know in a way I find this very unfair.

The Jackson family has made it plain that the services are going to be private with close friends and family members only. So if a fan shows up on their own accord disregarding what the Jacksons have made clear..... the Jacksons are the ones that are punished monetarily for it????????????:thumbdown:

Is this going to be another case like the memorial where too many LE were on duty yet charged for and the police all showed up but very few fans did because LE had repeatedly over and over again told them not to come? And they did as they were instructed yet the police turns in an exorbitant bill for services not even needed.

Just another method of getting more money on someone else's dime imo.

imo

If the Jackson's didn't want to pay for the police, why don't they quietly bury MJ. and then announce it? But, no, they have to make a big deal out of it. First it was to be on his birthday, then that changed. I think they want to get as much mileage out of this as possible. If not, they wouldn't have announced at all. IMO

[Rayosunshine]

I am bringing this post over from yesterday's thread.



I am not sure the justice system looks at it this way though. I do think they have learned that people who are addicted to drugs are very vulnerable people and no one knows that anymore than these licensed doctors who feed the addicted person with more drugs. If the addict has money then the doctors know they can be paid an exorbitant amount of money for their "services.":rolleyes: (high priced licensed drug pushers)

The doctors who do these things certainly aren't victims except maybe by their own greed.

It is only logical that someone addicted to drugs will want drugs and will pay any price to get it especially if they have the money to do it. To me the justice system is very aware of that and because they are addicted they become vulnerable no matter who they are. I think some of us would be astounded by what amount MJ had to pay in order to keep his addiction fed just because they knew he had money. That too is taking full advantage of a drug addict who these doctors know will pay any amount asked even if it is ridiculous amount.

So MJ wanting the drugs is what any person who is a hard core addict does but the doctors who takes an oath to "do no harm" are perfectly aware they are playing fast and loose with someone's life but it seems the doctors have the rule of "as long as you pay we will play."

I don't think Murray even took this job all for the money. I think he very much liked the celeb atmosphere and hobnobbing with the stars just like he probably did when he was James Brown's personal physician.

I think these type of doctors prey on these kind of people and keep them addicted instead of trying to offer help to them. It keeps the victim in their control because the victim knows these doctors have what it takes to keep their insatiable craving satisfied and they are willing to supply it to them.

So if Murray is a victim it is by his own design. No one made him do this. He jumped right in there with both feet and started administering MJ with diprivan when he first came on the scene and according to him he even set it up to be done in Las Vegas even before he became MJs personal physician. So it sounds like to me that Murray may have been a Dr. Feel Good and a "go to" guy even before he came to the Holmby mansion.

imo

Very well written. Your second to last paragraph is right on target and quite accurate (imo, according to my experience).

[retiredcop]

Since when have opinions on a message board just become a silly immature game? I have never ever understood that foolishness since I have been a member here for many years, Never have I told someone they had to eat crow because their opinions differed and in the end I just got lucky and called the cases right. That seems very egotistical and arrogant behavior to me.

Is that all it's about? Winning the game? Being right or wrong? How revolting and so incredibly childish imo.

imo

Oh come on. You are well aware of what I'm talking about. Maybe not those exact words were used about eating crow, but..........

I do agree it is immature and I do not practice that, but............

I received PMs and it was in fact rubbed in my face about the unofficial homicide ruling.

Now it is immature to continue this line of posting, don't you agree?

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

If the Jackson's didn't want to pay for the police, why don't they quietly bury MJ. and then announce it? But, no, they have to make a big deal out of it. First it was to be on his birthday, then that changed. I think they want to get as much mileage out of this as possible. If not, they wouldn't have announced at all. IMO

What mileage? The services are private services not open to the public or MJs fans. They have made that very perfectly clear.

But I do think the Jacksons believe they have some obligation to MJs fans throughout the world to let them know when and where he will rest in peace. I think they are saddened that they had to exclude his fans knowing what MJs fans meant to him but they thought the private burial was best for MJ and his family.

imo

[Rayosunshine]

I always thought Madame Tussauds was so creepy.:scared:

in my opinion

I've never been there, but the artists really do capture the likeness. They are good.

[Rayosunshine]

I want to know why the room MJ was in was so hot. This really irks me. I heard mention yesterday on one of the talk shows that a dead body's temperature drops approximately 1 degree per hour until it reaches ambient (room) temperature. Do we have any information on MJ's core temp?

[?WudScoobyDo]

I would really appreciate it very much if you did not make comments about me personally, retired.

It is totally unnecessary and uncalled for. Just debate the case, ok?

All I know is this officer has a sworn affidavit. He put his credibility up in his sworn statement and I do not think he would put any misinformation in such a high profile case. I don't think the officer is the bad guy here but I certainly do believe that Murray is and LE knows it and that is why they have not come out and ruled him out as being responsible for MJs death so that Murray can come out of his house and get on with his life.

imo


It is also sworn under penalty of perjury, which could lead to perjury charges if he didn't swear to the facts to the best of his knowledge and belief. Also his career might take a hit from something like that.

imo...of course.

[?WudScoobyDo]

http://www.examiner.com/x-4732-Celebrity-Travel-Examiner~y2009m8d26-Michael-Jackson-wax-sculpture-to-be-unveiled-in-Hollywood

A wax sculpture of Michael Jackson will be unveiled at Madame Tussauds in Hollywood on Thursday, August 27, in honor of Michael Jackson's upcoming birthday on August 29.

imo

I wonder if it originally came from the wax museum here in So.Cal, which closed its doors 2 years ago, and they auctioned off all the wax figures. I bet the MJ figure went pretty cheap at that time.

[Eagleeye]

Since when have opinions on a message board just become a silly immature game? I have never ever understood that foolishness since I have been a member here for many years, Never have I told someone they had to eat crow because their opinions differed and in the end I just got lucky and called the cases right. That seems very egotistical and arrogant behavior to me.

Is that all it's about? Winning the game? Being right or wrong? How revolting and so incredibly childish imo.

imo

You "Rock" Breeze. :thumbsup:

[?WudScoobyDo]

Oh come on. You are well aware of what I'm talking about. Maybe not those exact words were used about eating crow, but..........

I do agree it is immature and I do not practice that, but............

I received PMs and it was in fact rubbed in my face about the unofficial homicide ruling.

Now it is immature to continue this line of posting, don't you agree?

in my opinion

Someone actually pm'd you and rubbed your face in the facts? I think IS has a feature that allows you to prohibit pm's from any poster you don't want to receive a pm from.

[Cindylee]

What mileage? The services are private services not open to the public or MJs fans. They have made that very perfectly clear.

But I do think the Jacksons believe they have some obligation to MJs fans throughout the world to let them know when and where he will rest in peace. I think they are saddened that they had to exclude his fans knowing what MJs fans meant to him but they thought the private burial was best for MJ and his family.

imo

Is there a reason they can't simply announce to the fans, that he was laid to rest? If they don't want the tv crews and the helicopters, that would seem a simple solution. Since they choose to announce the time and place, they can expect to pay for it. The police have no way of knowing if people will show up or not. Just like the first service. They have to plan for everything.

[retiredcop]

What mileage? The services are private services not open to the public or MJs fans. They have made that very perfectly clear.

But I do think the Jacksons believe they have some obligation to MJs fans throughout the world to let them know when and where he will rest in peace. I think they are saddened that they had to exclude his fans knowing what MJs fans meant to him but they thought the private burial was best for MJ and his family.

imo

Why didn't they just announce it after the burial? Why all the police presence and a police helicopter flying over the cemetery? That will draw attention. Now the cemetery has to be closed down to others who have relatives they might want to visit.

If you don't want a crowd and news reporters there, you don't announce to the world. Poor kids.:sad:

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

S/Ws can have lots of descriptiveness because it only shows probable cause to search. Those phone calls were not during a crucial time. He was found not to be breathing at 12:05. If he was not breathing at 11:00 the EMTs and the ER doctors would not have worked on him as long as they did. Also, I believe those phone calls were made from the room Mr Jackson was in.

The fire captain on the scene said nothing at all about the EMTs wanting to call him dead. The report from the fire department is in the hands of the coroner. It is sealed to us.

Mr Murray's attorney was with the Dr when he spoke with police. So saying the Dr didn't say those things in the search warrant is no doubt correct. Have you seen the Dr's official statements? No, because they haven't been released. All the information you are going on is an old search warrant. Keep those rose colored glasses on. You wear them so well.:biggrin:

in my opinion


Are you relying on Murray's attorney to set the record straight, or the tvguide channel, or both. Just curious because your info paints a completely different picture of the event.

[retiredcop]

It is also sworn under penalty of perjury, which could lead to perjury charges if he didn't swear to the facts to the best of his knowledge and belief. Also his career might take a hit from something like that.

imo...of course.

Is there a sworn, noterized statement? If so I need the link again and the page number.

He is swearing to the facts as he knows them at that point.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

Why didn't they just announce it after the burial? Why all the police presence and a police helicopter flying over the cemetery? That will draw attention. Now the cemetery has to be closed down to others who have relatives they might want to visit.

If you don't want a crowd and news reporters there, you don't announce to the world. Poor kids.:sad:

in my opinion

Have you noticed the numerous comments regarding the family and the sinister plots to make money of a dead body somehow? Even putting a coin slot on his coffin for some kind of peep show? I have, and I bet the family has too. I guess they have responded to the best of their ability.

In a perfect world, there would be no need to take these precautions, because in a perfect world, decent people would be respectful and allow the family to bury their loved one, with the same integrity and respect as everyone else is afforded.

Unfortunately, and I believe through no fault of their own, a private burial becomes another subject of thoughtless debate.


imo...of course.

[retiredcop]

Are you relying on Murray's attorney to set the record straight, or the tvguide channel, or both. Just curious because your info paints a completely different picture of the event.

Both, and isn't it interesting how different it is?

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

Have you noticed the numerous comments regarding the family and the sinister plots to make money of a dead body somehow? Even putting a coin slot on his coffin for some kind of peep show? I have, and I bet the family has too. I guess they have responded to the best of their ability.

In a perfect world, there would be no need to take these precautions, because in a perfect world, decent people would be respectful and allow the family to bury their loved one, with the same integrity and respect as everyone else is afforded.

Unfortunately, and I believe through no fault of their own, a private burial becomes another subject of thoughtless debate.


imo...of course.

Wud...originally they wanted a glass coffin on a horse drawn carriage, at Neverland. I am sorry, but I don't think the Jackson family minds the attention. Just my take on things.

[retiredcop]

Someone actually pm'd you and rubbed your face in the facts? I think IS has a feature that allows you to prohibit pm's from any poster you don't want to receive a pm from.

No, not the facts, the rumor.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

Is there a sworn, noterized statement? If so I need the link again and the page number.

He is swearing to the facts as he knows them at that point.

in my opinion


There is no requirement to have that document notarized. And having a document notarized only establishes that the person signing their name to the document is in fact that person. A notary public can only verify the identity of the signer, not the validity of the facts presented on the signed document.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Wud...originally they wanted a glass coffin on a horse drawn carriage, at Neverland. I am sorry, but I don't think the Jackson family minds the attention. Just my take on things.

And now they want a private burial, and its my opinion that it shouldnt have to come at the cost of 10's of thousands of dollars. And I am baffled why it costs three times more for security on a weekday than on a weekend. Seems like it should be the other way around.

[retiredcop]

There is no requirement to have that document notarized. And having a document notarized only establishes that the person signing their name to the document is in fact that person. A notary public can only verify the identity of the signer, not the validity of the facts presented on the signed document.

So what are you talking about when you say he swore under penalty of perjury? Do you have the link and the page number?

BTW when was the last time you prepared a search warrant?

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

And now they want a private burial, and its my opinion that it shouldnt have to come at the cost of 10's of thousands of dollars. And I am baffled why it costs three times more for security on a weekday than on a weekend. Seems like it should be the other way around.

Then in my opinion, they should have made it private, and announced it after the fact.
Maybe it costs more because of weekday traffic. School, work, etc. :shrug:

[retiredcop]

And now they want a private burial, and its my opinion that it shouldnt have to come at the cost of 10's of thousands of dollars. And I am baffled why it costs three times more for security on a weekday than on a weekend. Seems like it should be the other way around.

They have to pay for the off duty police to work the detail and a police helicoper also costs a great deal. It's obvious on a week day there is more traffic which means more people around the cemetary. If it hadn't been announced, there wouldn't be the need for all the police.

Besides they decide how many extras they need like the chopper.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

So what are you talking about when you say he swore under penalty of perjury? Do you have the link and the page number?

BTW when was the last time you prepared a search warrant?

in my opinion


Page 16 of 32

Statement of Probable Cause

"Affiant declares under penalty of perjury that the following facts are true....."


There is probably a link on the link thread.

[?WudScoobyDo]

They have to pay for the off duty police to work the detail and a police helicoper also costs a great deal. It's obvious on a week day there is more traffic which means more people around the cemetary. If it hadn't been announced, there wouldn't be the need for all the police.

Besides they decide how many extras they need like the chopper.

in my opinion

I have always noticed a greater number of people in a cemetary on weekend days. My grandpa used to take my brother and I for picnics at his favorite cemetary, and I have adopted his appreciation of them. I never need a death to find myself in a cemetary. But anyway.. seems to me that citizens should be allowed to bury their loved ones, without having to pay the city an enormous fee to control the people within the city. I believe thats why we pay taxes.

imo..of course.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Then in my opinion, they should have made it private, and announced it after the fact.
Maybe it costs more because of weekday traffic. School, work, etc. :shrug:

With the paparazzi... I think privacy is an impossible task for them. You have to know that the paparazzi probably piched a tent across the street, so they will be the first to get the high money photos.

[Cindylee]

With the paparazzi... I think privacy is an impossible task for them. You have to know that the paparazzi probably piched a tent across the street, so they will be the first to get the high money photos.

That is true, they will always have the pap., but with the announcement now add, tv crews, and their helicopters, fans, etc. It will just be worse. It is certainly their choice to announce the burial. As you know I don't have a very high regard for this family. So, I have my opinions as to why the announcement.

[Eagleeye]

I have always noticed a greater number of people in a cemetary on weekend days. My grandpa used to take my brother and I for picnics at his favorite cemetary, and I have adopted his appreciation of them. I never need a death to find myself in a cemetary. But anyway.. seems to me that citizens should be allowed to bury their loved ones, without having to pay the city an enormous fee to control the people within the city. I believe thats why we pay taxes.

imo..of course.

Yup, you and "stick it to the taxpayer" Teddy Kennedy. May he never rest in peace for what he has done.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Yup, you and "stick it to the taxpayer" Teddy Kennedy. May he never rest in peace for what he has done.


I like you to much to report you. What has he done? Died of a brain tumor? Also.. as I was reminded yesterday, there is a politics forum.

ps.. keep in mind I am one of those taxpayers who pay the salaries of California government.

[retiredcop]

Page 16 of 32

Statement of Probable Cause

"Affiant declares under penalty of perjury that the following facts are true....."


There is probably a link on the link thread.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/probable+cause?db=dictionary


probable cause

–noun Law.
reasonable ground for a belief, as, in a criminal case, that the accused was guilty of the crime, or, in a civil case, that grounds for the action existed: used esp. as a defense to an action for malicious prosecution.

[?WudScoobyDo]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/probable+cause?db=dictionary


probable cause

–noun Law.
reasonable ground for a belief, as, in a criminal case, that the accused was guilty of the crime, or, in a civil case, that grounds for the action existed: used esp. as a defense to an action for malicious prosecution.


How does your post help your agenda?

You requested the page number of where it was said under penalty of perjury and I kindly honored your request. By the way, since you asked me, when is the last time YOU prepared a search warrant?

[retiredcop]

I have always noticed a greater number of people in a cemetary on weekend days. My grandpa used to take my brother and I for picnics at his favorite cemetary, and I have adopted his appreciation of them. I never need a death to find myself in a cemetary. But anyway.. seems to me that citizens should be allowed to bury their loved ones, without having to pay the city an enormous fee to control the people within the city. I believe thats why we pay taxes.

imo..of course.

No, taxpayers don't pay for security at private funerals.


in my opinion

[retiredcop]

How does your post help your agenda?

You requested the page number of where it was said under penalty of perjury and I kindly honored your request. By the way, since you asked me, when is the last time YOU prepared a search warrant?

A year before I retired. It is a probable cause affidavit. It can and will change. It is not an arrest affidavit.

in my opinion

[Eagleeye]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/probable+cause?db=dictionary


probable cause

–noun Law.
reasonable ground for a belief, as, in a criminal case, that the accused was guilty of the crime, or, in a civil case, that grounds for the action existed: used esp. as a defense to an action for malicious prosecution.

Does not apply in this case imo. Nice try though.

[daniel green]

I am bringing this post over from yesterday's thread.



I am not sure the justice system looks at it this way though. I do think they have learned that people who are addicted to drugs are very vulnerable people and no one knows that anymore than these licensed doctors who feed the addicted person with more drugs. snipped

Actually, the justice system does look at addicts' doc-shopping and getting Rxs for stuff they should not have EXACTLY as Forensicspy said.

[angellaw]

And now they want a private burial, and its my opinion that it shouldnt have to come at the cost of 10's of thousands of dollars. And I am baffled why it costs three times more for security on a weekday than on a weekend. Seems like it should be the other way around.


WHY DID THEY NOT BURY HIM THE 1ST TIME AROUND????:cursing: IIRC the city picke dup the tab for that one...this is just insane...

The man should have been 6 feet under weeks ago IMO..they are dragging this along for as long as possible for the publicity IMO

[?WudScoobyDo]

No, taxpayers don't pay for security at private funerals.


in my opinion


They do pay for crowd control and the safety of the public, whom they are charged to "serve and protect".

[retiredcop]

Does not apply in this case imo. Nice try though.

LOL Please explain how this case is different.

[ABC]

WHY DID THEY NOT BURY HIM THE 1ST TIME AROUND????:cursing: IIRC the city picke dup the tab for that one...this is just insane...

The man should have been 6 feet under weeks ago IMO..they are dragging this along for as long as possible for the publicity IMO
Easy to write when it is not your relative. Not so easy when it is.

[retiredcop]

They do pay for crowd control and the safety of the public, whom they are charged to "serve and protect".

Not for private funerals.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

All I know is this officer has a sworn affidavit. He put his credibility up in his sworn statement and I do not think he would put any misinformation in such a high profile case. snipped

I sure hope we don't have to reinvent the wheel today again.

Everything in that SW Affidavit is from what people TOLD police, including Murray.

:rolleyes:

[?WudScoobyDo]

WHY DID THEY NOT BURY HIM THE 1ST TIME AROUND????:cursing:

The man should have been 6 feet under weeks ago IMO..they are dragging this along for as long as possible for the publicity IMO


Why... I don't know, but I do know it is their choice on how to handle the remains of their relative, not ours.

I don't see how the publicity benefits them in any way.

[daniel green]

If the Jackson's didn't want to pay for the police, why don't they quietly bury MJ. and then announce it? But, no, they have to make a big deal out of it. First it was to be on his birthday, then that changed. I think they want to get as much mileage out of this as possible. If not, they wouldn't have announced at all. IMO

Exactly so.

[retiredcop]

I sure hope we don't have to reinvent the wheel today again.

Everything in that SW Affidavit is from what people TOLD police, including Murray.

:rolleyes:

Not according to Murray's lawyer who was present when Murray talked with police.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

I sure hope we don't have to reinvent the wheel today again.

Everything in that SW Affidavit is from what people TOLD police, including Murray.

:rolleyes:

Not everything. There are those pesky cell phone records of Murray, which I think are some of the most damaging facts within the document.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Not for private funerals.

in my opinion

How about the city streets and residents of those streets that surround Forest Lawn, for which crowd control comes into play.

[daniel green]

Page 16 of 32

Statement of Probable Cause

"Affiant declares under penalty of perjury that the following facts are true....."


There is probably a link on the link thread.

Scooby, you are so much better than this. When you discussed that very line yesterday--giving the complete line-- you yourself noted what the parameters are.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Not according to Murray's lawyer who was present when Murray talked with police.

in my opinion

I don't think I ever saw a defense attorney issue a statement to the public that his client was lying in a criminal investigation. So, yah..it makes sense his attorney would advocate for his client.

[retiredcop]

How about the city streets and residents of those streets that surround Forest Lawn, for which crowd control comes into play.

Tax payers do not pay for security for private funerals.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

Wud...originally they wanted a glass coffin on a horse drawn carriage, at Neverland. I am sorry, but I don't think the Jackson family minds the attention. Just my take on things.

They positively THRIVE on it.

Looks like we are re-discussing the same old thing discussed yesterday ad infinitum about the Affidavit. Yawn.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Scooby, you are so much better than this. When you discussed that very line yesterday--giving the complete line-- you yourself noted what the parameters are.


The poster asked me to show where the document said under penalty of perjury, because they didnt believe it said that anywhere. I merely corrected him and provided the page number where she could find it. It was more of a clerical response rather than analytical.

[retiredcop]

I don't think I ever saw a defense attorney issue a statement to the public that his client was lying in a criminal investigation. So, yah..it makes sense his attorney would advocate for his client.

Who said anything about lying? Have you seen Dr Murray's written statements or heard his recorded statement to police? Have you seen a video of him speaking with police?

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Is there a sworn, noterized statement? If so I need the link again and the page number.

He is swearing to the facts as he knows them at that point.

in my opinion

It was the police officer's affidavit.

Definition:


af·fi·da·vit (f-dvt)
n.
A written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other authorized officer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/affidavit

[retiredcop]

The poster asked me to show where the document said under penalty of perjury, because they didnt believe it said that anywhere. I merely corrected him and provided the page number where she could find it. It was more of a clerical response rather than analytical.

No, I didn't anything about believing it or not. I haven't read the search warrant. I consider it a waste of time.

in my opiinion

[Cindylee]

WHY DID THEY NOT BURY HIM THE 1ST TIME AROUND????:cursing: IIRC the city picke dup the tab for that one...this is just insane...

The man should have been 6 feet under weeks ago IMO..they are dragging this along for as long as possible for the publicity IMO

I agree. But, someone posted that they are going to reimburse the city for the first one. We'll see.

[?WudScoobyDo]

No, I didn't anything about believing it or not. I haven't read the search warrant. I consider it a waste of time.

in my opiinion

That would be a logical reason why you appear so misinformed.

[retiredcop]

It was the police officer's affidavit.

Definition:


af·fi·da·vit (f-dvt)
n.
A written declaration made under oath before a notary public or other authorized officer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/affidavit

Yes, it was a probable cause affidavit and it was for a search warrant. The officer believed that at the time. Do you think an arrest warrant would read the same if there is one?

in my opinion

[Kathlb]

Not for private funerals.

in my opinion

You must have been really shocked when your tax money went to pay for crowd control and a string of police cars to escort Brittany on her 5150 hold and to the hospital. I certainly remember hearing the outcry from the tax payers in CA over that one and there were more. So it does come into play when crowds form. They have to respond in order to protect and serve and the family isn't going to be paying for that. MOO

[?WudScoobyDo]

Who said anything about lying? Have you seen Dr Murray's written statements or heard his recorded statement to police? Have you seen a video of him speaking with police?

in my opinion


You are relying on the statement of the suspects attorney, but feel reading the actual statement of probable cause is a waste of time. Need I say more?

[retiredcop]

That would be a logical reason why you appear so misinformed.

What would be the reason you are so uniformed about legal procedures?

I don't care about an old S/W. I care about the autopsy report and the tox report.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

I sure hope we don't have to reinvent the wheel today again.

Everything in that SW Affidavit is from what people TOLD police, including Murray.

:rolleyes:

Then perhaps you should remind retiredcop of that. She was the one wanting to know about the sworn affidavit.

I don't think we are limited under any particular time span when things can only be discussed.

Many cases here constantly go over issues that have been discussed before. I see no reason why we should have to deviate from the norm when it comes to this particular one.

imo

[?WudScoobyDo]

Yes, it was a probable cause affidavit and it was for a search warrant. The officer believed that at the time. Do you think an arrest warrant would read the same if there is one?

in my opinion

I think the arrest warrant will be more damaging.

[?WudScoobyDo]

What would be the reason you are so uniformed about legal procedures?

I don't care about an old S/W. I care about the autopsy report and the tox report.

in my opinion

I'd venture a guess that I am better informed than you are as to legal procedures, especially in California. I certainly paid enough money to become informed.

[mrsmcgoo]

That is true, they will always have the pap., but with the announcement now add, tv crews, and their helicopters, fans, etc. It will just be worse. It is certainly their choice to announce the burial. As you know I don't have a very high regard for this family. So, I have my opinions as to why the announcement.

In my opinion, they have a method to their madness. Keep the attention going, which means interviews and media coverage. Which means memorabilia sales spike again, which means .....$$$$, you get the point.

A dignified, quiet, respectful service would have benefitted the children and their grieving. There will be lots of memorials to come in the year ahead, but the children won't get private time to say good bye to their father in this manner again. Poor children!

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Yes, it was a probable cause affidavit and it was for a search warrant. The officer believed that at the time. Do you think an arrest warrant would read the same if there is one?

in my opinion

No, much more has been learned by now. Each time a Judge issues a SW they expect LE to show more and more probable cause each time.. I think it will be much more damaging now that multiple SW have been done. I think every time they got a SW on Murray or a place connected to Murray it yielded evidence to support another SW and another, etc.

imo

[?WudScoobyDo]

In my opinion, they have a method to their madness. Keep the attention going, which means interviews and media coverage. Which means memorabilia sales spike again, which means .....$$$$, you get the point.

A dignified, quiet, respectful service would have benefitted the children and their grieving. There will be lots of memorials to come in the year ahead, but the children won't get private time to say good bye to their father in this manner again. Poor children!

JMO

There is no reason to think that it won't be dignified or respectful. As far as quiet, like in crowd control, how would you propose they could successfully achieve that as a family trying to bury their loved one? They wouldn't be allowed to carry weapons to freely shoot whomever they felt was in violation of Forest Lawn rules, or the law. Only the police are allowed to do that and get away with it.

[Cindylee]

In my opinion, they have a method to their madness. Keep the attention going, which means interviews and media coverage. Which means memorabilia sales spike again, which means .....$$$$, you get the point.

A dignified, quiet, respectful service would have benefitted the children and their grieving. There will be lots of memorials to come in the year ahead, but the children won't get private time to say good bye to their father in this manner again. Poor children!

JMO

And I think it is interesting timing with the concert in Europe and the film coming out.

[?WudScoobyDo]

No, much more has been learned by now. Each time a Judge issues a SW they expect LE to show more and more probable cause each time.. I think it will be much more damaging now that multiple SW have been done. I think every time they got a SW on Murray or a place connected to Murray it yielded evidence to support another SW and another, etc.

imo

That does make sense, doesn't it.

[GentleBreeze]

And I think it is interesting timing with the concert in Europe and the film coming out.

:confused: How?

Isn't the tribute in late September?

And the movie is not released until sometime in October?

imo

[mrsmcgoo]

There is no reason to think that it won't be dignified or respectful. As far as quiet, like in crowd control, how would you propose they could successfully achieve that as a family trying to bury their loved one? They wouldn't be allowed to carry weapons to freely shoot whomever they felt was in violation of Forest Lawn rules, or the law. Only the police are allowed to do that and get away with it.


I think they could achieve a peaceful atmosphere if they didn't announce to the public the date and time.

I never mentioned anyone getting "shot"??? I have no idea why you addressed that in your post. Guns?? I don't understand what you are saying.

I would like to point out that the children, up until MJ's death were masked for most of their lives in public. Now, not only are they dealing with the sudden death of their father, they get to do it under the watchful eye of the media.

JMO

[mrsmcgoo]

And I think it is interesting timing with the concert in Europe and the film coming out.

Keep the money train rolling!!


JMO

[?WudScoobyDo]

This was posted on last nights thread, and I find it so interesting that I am posting it here now.


The mysterious Tohme appeared to be in charge of Jackson's affairs in recent years and is believed to be the mastermind behind the late pop superstar's ill-fated comeback shows in London.

But Jacko's spiritual guru June Gatlin has now revealed her client was scared of his manager - and he agreed to be taped talking about his relationship with Tohme.

Gatlin says, "He was afraid of who this man is, afraid of whatever this man may be capable of doing... He had taken over Michael's complete life."

The advisor has handed over the tapes she recorded of phone conversations with Jackson in September 2008 to NBC News in America.

On the tapes, the King of Pop can be heard telling Gatlin, "This guy, he just... has ways about him... There's a divide between me and my representatives and I don't talk to my lawyer, my accountant. I talk to him and he talks to them.

"I don't like it. I wanna get somebody in there with him that I know and can trust. I don't know what's in my accounts."

Gatlin advised Jackson to investigate his manager.

She tells NBC, "Michael said, 'He's (Tohme) mean, he's trying to keep me and separate me from everybody and everything that I love."

Jackson severed ties with Tohme in May (09) after learning his manager had threatened the boss of a California auction house over memorabilia items that were set to go under the hammer.

After rehiring svengali Frank DiLeo to look after his affairs, Jackson sent a letter to all business associates, in which he insisted, "Dr. Tohme Tohme is no longer authorized to represent me."

But, Tohme spoke on behalf of Jackson hours after he died and conducted an interview with NBC two weeks after the tragedy in June (09), when he stated, "I'm still in charge of Michael Jackson's business until otherwise I am informed not to do so (sic)." (KL/WNV/IG)

http://www.themoneytimes.com/20090825/jackson-tapes-put-manager-dr-tohme-tohme-spotlight-id-1081399.htm

[?WudScoobyDo]

I think they could achieve a peaceful atmosphere if they didn't announce to the public the date and time.

I never mentioned anyone getting "shot"??? I have no idea why you addressed that in your post. Guns?? I don't understand what you are saying.

I would like to point out that the children, up until MJ's death were masked for most of their lives in public. Now, not only are they dealing with the sudden death of their father, they get to do it under the watchful eye of the media.

JMO

Not only the watchful eye of the media, but the haters as well. This is LA, where people get shot at every single day and night. There doesn't need to be a reason.

[mrsmcgoo]

Not only the watchful eye of the media, but the haters as well. This is LA, where people get shot at every single day and night. There doesn't need to be a reason.

Sad times we live in...:crying:

[Rayosunshine]

29 year old woman located today - kidnapped at age 11 - 18 year ago. There is HOPE, Never ever give up!

edit: forgot to say - on HLN (broke during Kennedy motorcade)

[mrsmcgoo]

29 year old woman located today - kidnapped at age 11 - 18 year ago. There is HOPE, Never ever give up!

edit: forgot to say - on HLN (broke during Kennedy motorcade)

Love your words...There is HOPE, Never ever give up!


Read about this developing story....a miracle indeed!
:wub:

[?WudScoobyDo]

29 year old woman located today - kidnapped at age 11 - 18 year ago. There is HOPE, Never ever give up!

edit: forgot to say - on HLN (broke during Kennedy motorcade)


Incredible, isn't it. And that she remembers the details of her childhood before being kidnapped is incredible too. I can't imagine her parents joy.

[GentleBreeze]

Incredible, isn't it. And that she remembers the details of her childhood before being kidnapped is incredible too. I can't imagine her parents joy.

Who kidnapped her and was she abused all of these years?

tia

[Eagleeye]

There is no reason to think that it won't be dignified or respectful. As far as quiet, like in crowd control, how would you propose they could successfully achieve that as a family trying to bury their loved one? They wouldn't be allowed to carry weapons to freely shoot whomever they felt was in violation of Forest Lawn rules, or the law. Only the police are allowed to do that and get away with it.

My bold:

That remark did not win you any points with me Scoob and you KNOW what I mean.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Who kidnapped her and was she abused all of these years?

tia

They arrested a couple in No Cal. but the press conference starts at 3:00 pst., and we don't know yet. It should be interesting.

[?WudScoobyDo]

My bold:

That remark did not win you any points with me Scoob and you KNOW what I mean.

I'm thinking I am in a deep point deficit at this point. Of course I don't mean all officers, but where I live it happens pretty regularly. I wish that someday, I live somewhere peaceful and friendly.

[retiredcop]

There is no reason to think that it won't be dignified or respectful. As far as quiet, like in crowd control, how would you propose they could successfully achieve that as a family trying to bury their loved one? They wouldn't be allowed to carry weapons to freely shoot whomever they felt was in violation of Forest Lawn rules, or the law. Only the police are allowed to do that and get away with it.

OMG you sure wasted your money.:biggrin:

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

OMG you sure wasted your money.:biggrin:

in my opinion

huh.. it didn't cost me anything to post my opinion to which you responded. I don't get your point.

[retiredcop]

huh.. it didn't cost me anything to post my opinion to which you responded. I don't get your point.


I'd venture a guess that I am better informed than you are as to legal procedures, especially in California. I certainly paid enough money to become informed.


You just posted this a few post ago. Do you remember what you post?:w00t:

Then you posted this.

They wouldn't be allowed to carry weapons to freely shoot whomever they felt was in violation of Forest Lawn rules, or the law. Only the police are allowed to do that and get away with it.


I then posted you sure wasted your money. LOL

in my opinion

[daniel green]

In my opinion, they have a method to their madness. Keep the attention going, which means interviews and media coverage. Which means memorabilia sales spike again, which means .....$$$$, you get the point.

A dignified, quiet, respectful service would have benefitted the children and their grieving. There will be lots of memorials to come in the year ahead, but the children won't get private time to say good bye to their father in this manner again. Poor children!

JMO

I quite agree. They love being in the news--even if it's literally about their deceased loved one.

I find it not only repulsive, but totally outside my capacity for understanding. No doubt, I come from a background in which we do not embalm and have a strict protocol of grief and rituals, but I certainly have been to many viewings and funerals outside my culture and religion.

And this strikes me as so crass as to be revolting.

[daniel green]

They arrested a couple in No Cal. but the press conference starts at 3:00 pst., and we don't know yet. It should be interesting.

Could we pls keep posts about that to the proper forum?

I do not read cases about child molestation, and would very much appreciate not being surprised by posts re that case here.

Many thanks.

[daniel green]

Retired and Scooby--any chance of you all taking that personal argument about legal education and knowledge to PM?

Much appreciated!

[daniel green]

An arrest in the alleged homicide death of Michael Jackson is not likely for months, detectives say. At the centre of the multi-agency manslaughter probe is his personal physician, Conrad Murray. However, unsealed court documents have widened the net of suspicion to potentially include parties Murray called over 47 minutes inside the hour and a half after his discovery that Jackson was not breathing. Other doctors who may have supplied Jackson with illegal prescription drugs are under investigation. A source said:"We're looking at months before we make any arrests. We want to build a concrete case." Murray's stated window of time [more than 90 minutes] between his discovery of Jackson not breathing and the time a security guard called 911 on a cell phone is a major issue of contention in the case, as is his failure to inform arriving paramedics of the presence of Propofol in the singer's body. Whether or not the exact time of death can be determined was thrown into doubt by a claim regarding the heat temperature of the room in which Jackson was found.

http://www.sawfnews.com/Gossip/59689.aspx

[daniel green]

And there comes a night – another in a long series – when you cannot get to sleep, when you lie abed like any workaday shlub, eyes wide open, mind wide awake, held hostage by the relentless ticking of the clock. But you are not a workaday shlub. You are a "star," and you have a doctor at your beck and call, so you ask him for something to put you to sleep. Unfortunately, what he gives you doesn't work. He gives you something else, but that doesn't do it, either. After five tries, you're still awake. And all through that long night, you are asking for, pleading for, "demanding" something you've used before, something much stronger. Finally, the doctor caves in. He adds the drug to your IV. And it works, all too well. That, according to court documents released this week, is how Michael Jackson died.

Now Dr. Conrad Murray faces the very real possibility of prosecution for manslaughter. According to the documents, he told police he administered propofol – a powerful anesthetic typically used only in a hospital under the supervision of an anesthesiologist – despite the fact that he had already given the singer three other sedatives five times over six hours, and despite the fact that he suspected Jackson was developing an addiction to the drug.
...

You think he would have driven his finances into the ground if there'd been someone who could say, No, Michael, you don't need another golden cherub or portrait of you as a medieval king? You think he would have done such violence to his features if there'd been someone who could say, No, Michael, don't carve your nose down until it looks like it belongs on some Disney princess? You think he would have made himself an object of ridicule if there'd been someone who could say, No, Michael, you should not allow children into your bed, no matter how innocent you think it is? And do you think he'd be dead if his doctor had said, No, Michael, I'm not giving you what you want?

We celebrate fame because it liberates us from restrictions that apply to others. But the moral of this story is that there are some restrictions from which we ought never be freed. When you're too big to be told no, you're too big. And ultimately, that's Michael Jackson's ineffable tragedy. He died from an overdose of yes.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/viewpoints/stories/DN-pitts_28edi.State.Edition1.26ee884.html

I have always loved Pitts' down to earth analyses.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.sawfnews.com/Gossip/59689.aspx

Quote:
An arrest in the alleged homicide death of Michael Jackson is not likely for months, detectives say. At the centre of the multi-agency manslaughter probe is his personal physician, Conrad Murray. However, unsealed court documents have widened the net of suspicion to potentially include parties Murray called over 47 minutes inside the hour and a half after his discovery that Jackson was not breathing. Other doctors who may have supplied Jackson with illegal prescription drugs are under investigation. A source said:"We're looking at months before we make any arrests. We want to build a concrete case." Murray's stated window of time [more than 90 minutes] between his discovery of Jackson not breathing and the time a security guard called 911 on a cell phone is a major issue of contention in the case, as is his failure to inform arriving paramedics of the presence of Propofol in the singer's body. Whether or not the exact time of death can be determined was thrown into doubt by a claim regarding the heat temperature of the room in which Jackson was found. Quote:

Oh my this sounds very sinister. Now I want to know more than ever who he was calling all that time. It seems to imply that those other parities may be in on this too.

As one media site said the other day .........more and more it is making the Jackson family claims more believable. This could be huge.

imo

[Roxxanne]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/viewpoints/stories/DN-pitts_28edi.State.Edition1.26ee884.html

I have always loved Pitts' down to earth analyses.

And ultimately, that's Michael Jackson's ineffable tragedy. He died from an overdose of yes. Took this from your article.


I have agree with this. I feel the same about Elvis.:sad:

[daniel green]

1 call--to MJ's assistant

1 call--to his office, we think, right, from "reports" we've read from
unnamed sources?

1 call--to Klein, as per DD last night on ET.

[Cindylee]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/viewpoints/stories/DN-pitts_28edi.State.Edition1.26ee884.html

I have always loved Pitts' down to earth analyses.

From you link: This is exactly on point. IMO. I completely agree with this guy.

"You think he would have driven his finances into the ground if there'd been someone who could say, No, Michael, you don't need another golden cherub or portrait of you as a medieval king? You think he would have done such violence to his features if there'd been someone who could say, No, Michael, don't carve your nose down until it looks like it belongs on some Disney princess? You think he would have made himself an object of ridicule if there'd been someone who could say, No, Michael, you should not allow children into your bed, no matter how innocent you think it is? And do you think he'd be dead if his doctor had said, No, Michael, I'm not giving you what you want?

We celebrate fame because it liberates us from restrictions that apply to others. But the moral of this story is that there are some restrictions from which we ought never be freed. When you're too big to be told no, you're too big. And ultimately, that's Michael Jackson's ineffable tragedy. He died from an overdose of yes."

[daniel green]

From you link: This is exactly on point. IMO. I completely agree with this guy.

snipped

Pitts has been someone I have always read and make my son read.

[daniel green]

A search warrant unsealed by Entertainment Tonight shows that tar heroin was found in Michael Jackson's home. Entertainment Tonight convinced the court in Los Angeles on Thursday to release two more search warrants in the Michael Jackson investigation. This story is developing. Keep checking back here for more details and the warrants we helped unseal.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/08/78015/index.html

[?WudScoobyDo]

Quote:
An arrest in the alleged homicide death of Michael Jackson is not likely for months, detectives say. At the centre of the multi-agency manslaughter probe is his personal physician, Conrad Murray. However, unsealed court documents have widened the net of suspicion to potentially include parties Murray called over 47 minutes inside the hour and a half after his discovery that Jackson was not breathing. Other doctors who may have supplied Jackson with illegal prescription drugs are under investigation. A source said:"We're looking at months before we make any arrests. We want to build a concrete case." Murray's stated window of time [more than 90 minutes] between his discovery of Jackson not breathing and the time a security guard called 911 on a cell phone is a major issue of contention in the case, as is his failure to inform arriving paramedics of the presence of Propofol in the singer's body. Whether or not the exact time of death can be determined was thrown into doubt by a claim regarding the heat temperature of the room in which Jackson was found. Quote:

Oh my this sounds very sinister. Now I want to know more than ever who he was calling all that time. It seems to imply that those other parities may be in on this too.

As one media site said the other day .........more and more it is making the Jackson family claims more believable. This could be huge.

imo


I consider the possibilty that Dr. Tohme was one of those calls.

imo...of course.

[daniel green]

One of those warrants relates to what is being characterized as the "crime scene," Michael Jackson's rental home at 100 North Carolwood Drive in the Holmby Hills area of Los Angeles. The other warrant revolves around the 2005 BMW connected to Dr. Conrad Murray, left at the Carolwood home after the singer's death and impounded and searched as part of the police investigation.

Among the items taken from the rental home -- multiple bags of marijuana, a pill bottle containing Temazepam (a sleeping aid, two other pill bottles of Lorazepam (an anti-anxiety drug) and Diazepam (an anxiety and insomnia drug), and a tube of skin-bleaching cream Benoquin.



http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/08/78012/index.html

[daniel green]

UPDATE: A source connected with the case tells TMZ the "tar heroin" was tested -- and the results showed it was not heroin of any kind. This is not reflected in the warrant.

A search warrant affidavit just released from the search of Michael Jackson's home says the Jackson family notified L.A. County Assistant Chief Coroner Ed Winter that they found "tar heroin in a bag" in Jackson's bedroom. Chief Winter notified LAPD detectives of the found evidence.

Cops also found Benoquin in the master bathroom. Benoquin is bleaching cream.

The affidavit also says surveillance cameras at Jackson's home captured Dr. Conrad Murray arriving at 1:00 AM the day Jackson died.

As for what else was found during the search -- an empty bottle of Lorazepam, an empty bottle of Diazepam, a baggy with the medical label with the name Dr. Conrad Murray, 2 cigarette packs, 1 cigarette paper, 4 pill bottles and 1 shaving case.

Detective Orlando Martinez wrote, "Conversations with family members lead me to believe that there may be additional medications and/or narcotics at the location as well as the necessity to confiscate these items for the safety of the minor children."

Story developing...

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PQPUnFJq

[?WudScoobyDo]

-----------------------

a tube of skin bleaching cream. OHHHHHHH say it aint so..............and i thought MJ had the V disease. yeah right. imo


You know Buzzzzz, considering there were enough drugs in and around the home to take down an entire city, and did bring Michael down, how is it that you focus on skin bleaching cream? Whatever disease he may or may not have had, is really a moot point now.

imo...of course.

[GentleBreeze]

You know Buzzzzz, considering there were enough drugs in and around the home to take down an entire city, and did bring Michael down, how is it that you focus on skin bleaching cream? Whatever disease he may or may not have had, is really a moot point now.

imo...of course.

Plus if he still had patches of blotched skin then he would have a need to use it.

Never could understand why that is a big upty doo anyway.

imo

[Roxxanne]

Plus if he still had patches of blotched skin then he would have a need to use it.

Never could understand why that is a big upty doo anyway.

imo

Some people just gotta hold onto the idea he wanted to be white. Ridiculous!

[?WudScoobyDo]

Plus if he still had patches of blotched skin then he would have a need to use it.

Never could understand why that is a big upty doo anyway.

imo


Did you read the search warrant for Michael's "rented" home? It said that Dr. Murray left the hospital after investigators had told him not to.?

[Eagleeye]

From you link: This is exactly on point. IMO. I completely agree with this guy.

"You think he would have driven his finances into the ground if there'd been someone who could say, No, Michael, you don't need another golden cherub or portrait of you as a medieval king? You think he would have done such violence to his features if there'd been someone who could say, No, Michael, don't carve your nose down until it looks like it belongs on some Disney princess? You think he would have made himself an object of ridicule if there'd been someone who could say, No, Michael, you should not allow children into your bed, no matter how innocent you think it is? And do you think he'd be dead if his doctor had said, No, Michael, I'm not giving you what you want?

We celebrate fame because it liberates us from restrictions that apply to others. But the moral of this story is that there are some restrictions from which we ought never be freed. When you're too big to be told no, you're too big. And ultimately, that's Michael Jackson's ineffable tragedy. He died from an overdose of yes."

Bravo, Excellent :thumbsup:

[?WudScoobyDo]

------------------

A mass conspiracy.................YEAH RIGHT !


I think the Jackson's are starting to look pretty informed and credible. Its bigger than what we know, just wait and see.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Bravo, Excellent :thumbsup:


I'd be interested to know what you think about a conspiracy suggestion, as posted upthread? And also what your feeling is on Dr. Tohme?

[Eagleeye]

Could we pls keep posts about that to the proper forum?

I do not read cases about child molestation, and would very much appreciate not being surprised by posts re that case here.

Many thanks.

What is your problem? I haven't seen where someone has been banned for posting a news flash. It doesn't matter what you read or don't read, this thread is not about you. You are as welcome to skip a post as the rest of us if it offends your sensibilities. I have also not seen where Coldwater has made you a thread monitor.

[Cindylee]

I'd be interested to know what you think about a conspiracy suggestion, as posted upthread? And also what your feeling is on Dr. Tohme?

You didn't ask me but I think Tohme is a crook. I think he latched onto MJ and took over. I think MJ finally figured it out and brought back people he trusted. IMO. I also think if the authorities look into Tohme they are going to find a lot.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Could we pls keep posts about that to the proper forum?

I do not read cases about child molestation, and would very much appreciate not being surprised by posts re that case here.

Many thanks.


You must read about child molestation, since there is no mention of it in my post. How suprised could you possibly be when it is routinely brought up on this thread?

[GentleBreeze]

Some people just gotta hold onto the idea he wanted to be white. Ridiculous!

Yep, never could understand that spin either. If they knew anything at all about MJ it was he was very proud to be a black man.


imo

[GentleBreeze]

Did you read the search warrant for Michael's "rented" home? It said that Dr. Murray left the hospital after investigators had told him not to.?

Yes, I did. Pretty brazen don't you think?

imo

[?WudScoobyDo]

Retired and Scooby--any chance of you all taking that personal argument about legal education and knowledge to PM?

Much appreciated!


How about you be the first to set the example we all can follow?

[Cindylee]

Yep, never could understand that spin either. If they knew anything at all about MJ it was he was very proud to be a black man.


imo

That may be true, but even some of his good friends questioned it. I believe even his brother did. :shrug:

[Unperson1984]

Yep, never could understand that spin either. If they knew anything at all about MJ it was he was very proud to be a black man.


imo

Yet he chose to have white children.

[Eagleeye]

I'd be interested to know what you think about a conspiracy suggestion, as posted upthread? And also what your feeling is on Dr. Tohme?

Scoob,

I don't think anything about a conspiracy theory. I also know nothing about Dr. Thome as I have not researched or read much about him. My experience is in police work and medicine. I will leave it at that. :smile:

ETA: Check your PM's

[GentleBreeze]

I'd be interested to know what you think about a conspiracy suggestion, as posted upthread? And also what your feeling is on Dr. Tohme?

I am not, Eagle but something about Tohme seems to be foreboding.

Here he was getting fired in May and then right after MJ died he is out front and center saying that he handles all of MJs business affairs.:ohmy: Was he still doing back door deals behind MJs back and MJ wasn't even aware of it? Why would Michael give this man 5 M when he said he didnt trust him and had fired him?

He gives me chills.

imoo

[?WudScoobyDo]

Scoob,

I don't think anything about a conspiracy theory. I also know nothing about Dr. Thome as I have not researched or read much about him. My experience is in police work and medicine. I will leave it at that. :smile:


I don't think he is a real doctor. He just calls himself one. It is reported he had control over all aspects of MJ's life shortly before his death, and there are taped recordings of Michael telling someone he was afraid of the man, and other stuff too. I was interested in your thoughts as someone familiar with law enforcement ..etc..

[Cindylee]

I am not, Eagle but something about Tohme seems to be foreboding.

Here he was getting fired in May and then right after MJ died he is out front and center saying that he handles all of MJs business affairs.:ohmy: Was he still doing back door deals behind MJs back and MJ wasn't even aware of it? Why would Michael give this man 5 M when he said he didnt trust him and had fired him?

He gives me chills.

imoo

Here is a very interesting news report on Thome Thome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCc82buMJxk&videos=7GJd-fcgICs

[?WudScoobyDo]

I am not, Eagle but something about Tohme seems to be foreboding.

Here he was getting fired in May and then right after MJ died he is out front and center saying that he handles all of MJs business affairs.:ohmy: Was he still doing back door deals behind MJs back and MJ wasn't even aware of it? Why would Michael give this man 5 M when he said he didnt trust him and had fired him?

He gives me chills.

imoo

He signed the 50 concert AEG contract, in Michael's behalf...supposedly.

[GentleBreeze]

Yet he chose to have white children.

You can look at the countless videos of MJ all across the world with children of all races. It was obvious that he had no color barrier and loved all children of all races.

Choosing white children, and I am not sure that Blanket is 100% Caucasian, shows he sees no colors. They don't have to have his bloodline for him to love them more than anyone on earth.

That is one of the things I have admired about MJ.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

He signed the 50 concert AEG contract, in Michael's behalf...supposedly.

OMG! Really?:ohmy:

imo

[Eagleeye]

I don't think he is a real doctor. He just calls himself one. It is reported he had control over all aspects of MJ's life shortly before his death, and there are taped recordings of Michael telling someone he was afraid of the man, and other stuff too. I was interested in your thoughts as someone familiar with law enforcement ..etc..

You know that conspiracy is not my area of expertise but if I were to venture a guess about that, it imo would be far and wide and involve a miriad of players. I can't speculate who they might be. Maybe DG or rc can help you out with that one.

[Cindylee]

OMG! Really?:ohmy:

imo

Watch the video I just posted. It is scary what this man had control over. :scared:

[GentleBreeze]

I don't think he is a real doctor. He just calls himself one. It is reported he had control over all aspects of MJ's life shortly before his death, and there are taped recordings of Michael telling someone he was afraid of the man, and other stuff too. I was interested in your thoughts as someone familiar with law enforcement ..etc..

And did you see where he had been sued for defrauding people?

Iirc, there were about 27 lawsuits and he settled out of court each time.

imo

[?WudScoobyDo]

Here is a very interesting news report on Thome Thome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCc82buMJxk&videos=7GJd-fcgICs


Do you know when this originally aired?

[?WudScoobyDo]

You know that conspiracy is not my area of expertise but if I were to venture a guess about that, it imo would be far and wide and involve a miriad of players. I can't speculate who they might be. Maybe DG or rc can help you out with that one.


Thanks.. I think I'll go ahead and rely on my own thoughts about it.

[GentleBreeze]

Watch the video I just posted. It is scary what this man had control over. :scared:

I have watched it, Cindy.

He scares me!:scared:

I can just picture him threatening someone with bodily harm if they didn't do what he wanted.

I think he is getting up there lying his butt off when he was on tv.

imo

[Cindylee]

Do you know when this originally aired?

I think the date on the youtube is Aug. 26. But, I am not sure when it aired.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Watch the video I just posted. It is scary what this man had control over. :scared:


It really is and I think when you add Tohme to the mix, some things seem to make more sense.

[Cindylee]

I have watched it, Cindy.

He scares me!:scared:

I can just picture him threatening someone with bodily harm if they didn't do what he wanted.

I think he is getting up there lying his butt off when he was on tv.

imo

Plus the fact that even after MJ sent him the letter terminating his relationship with Dr. Thomme, he continued to do business in MJ's name. :ohmy:

[Cindylee]

It really is and I think when you add Tohme to the mix, some things seem to make more sense.

What are you thinking???

[GentleBreeze]

Do you know when this originally aired?

I know this. He was hitting the airwaves when this first began but he sure has dropped out of sight lately.

I think he came to the hospital trying to schmooze the Jacksons into thinking he was still in charge of things. Thank goodness MJ was trying to get his life back on track and had hired the ones back that he could trust.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Plus the fact that even after MJ sent him the letter terminating his relationship with Dr. Thomme, he continued to do business in MJ's name. :ohmy:

I tell ya it is odd as heck. Tohme gets the boot then here comes Murray and 6 weeks later MJ is dead.:ohmy:

imo

[retiredcop]

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/08/78017/

ET has learned that the Los Angeles County Coroner's office will announce tomorrow morning the cause and manner of Michael Jackson's death.

[Cindylee]

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/08/78017/

ET has learned that the Los Angeles County Coroner's office will announce tomorrow morning the cause and manner of Michael Jackson's death.

Well, there you go. Finally.:wink:

[Eagleeye]

Thanks.. I think I'll go ahead and rely on my own thoughts about it.

I know what you mean. OK, I will give it too you even though I said I didn't have a theory. Let me just say that if I were to make bets, It would be that Jermaine and Dr. Thome are two of the main players along with Dr. Klein, Dr Murray and others. Now I am going to get my hat handed to me in my hand. You're going to get me in trouble here Scoob. :laugh:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I tell ya it is odd as heck. Tohme gets the boot then here comes Murray and 6 weeks later MJ is dead.:ohmy:

imo

Who actually introduced Murray to MJ?..If it was Jermaine.. there is something quit hinky there..as it was Jermaine who involved Tohme with MJ initially as per the YouTube video...

I dont think Tohme has made any onaire speeches since he turned over that 5Million to the estate...I dont for one minute think he did that on his own good will efforts..I think MJ made a note to his executors just where that 5 Mil was..and they just asked for it back after MJ died..

Time will only tell..when all the rocks get looked under...

LMS

[Cindylee]

Who actually introduced Murray to MJ?..If it was Jermaine.. there is something quit hinky there..as it was Jermaine who involved Tohme with MJ initially as per the YouTube video...

I dont think Tohme has made any onaire speeches since he turned over that 5Million to the estate...I dont for one minute think he did that on his own good will efforts..I think MJ made a note to his executors just where that 5 Mil was..and they just asked for it back after MJ died..

Time will only tell..when all the rocks get looked under...

LMS

If it was Tohme that brought Murray in, that could be very interesting.

[Cindylee]

........NOW....they're worried about the children coming in contact with the drugs????????????

.................HUGE DISGUSTED EYEROLL............

Yes, That was quite ironic.

[Cindylee]

I don't think it's as much wanting to be white as it was to erase every single bit of his original face.

Pretty darn sad.

[GentleBreeze]

Who actually introduced Murray to MJ?..If it was Jermaine.. there is something quit hinky there..as it was Jermaine who involved Tohme with MJ initially as per the YouTube video...

I don't think Tohme has made any onaire speeches since he turned over that 5Million to the estate...I don't for one minute think he did that on his own good will efforts..I think MJ made a note to his executors just where that 5 Mil was..and they just asked for it back after MJ died..

Time will only tell..when all the rocks get looked under...

LMS

I think the administrators are looking at Tohme even now to see how many more millions he may have bilked MJ out of....He probably withdrew that amount behind MJs back. MJ said he didn't even know what he had in his accounts.

Now wouldn't that be interesting to know. I have always believed someone gave MJ, Murray's name.

The time line of events are just uncanny imo.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

If it was Tohme that brought Murray in, that could be very interesting.

GASP! and THUD !!!!!!!:scared:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

If it was Tohme that brought Murray in, that could be very interesting.


Im also concerned about the "Jermaine" factor!!..He has been sorta outa loop with his family..and he kept pushing for the Neverland Buriel site too..and no one else in the family wants that...In heinsight, I am now looking at him thru different glasses...Its up to LE...but I am sure there is far more to this whole story than we know, or could even thinkup!!

LMS:ohmy:

[GentleBreeze]

He claimed they WERE his bloodline.................and he didn't love them enough.........imo

I think since they really know him ,and you do not and have never even met him ,that without a doubt they all know he loved them very much as they love him. Paris said he was the best daddy in the world.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Really now?

Had he loved them more than HIMSELF he would still be alive. imo

He didn't kill himself. Dr Murray did. They understand that.

IMO

[retiredcop]

Well, there you go. Finally.:wink:

Isn't that the truth? I just hope it happens.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I know what you mean. OK, I will give it too you even though I said I didn't have a theory. Let me just say that if I were to make bets, It would be that Jermaine and Dr. Thome are two of the main players along with Dr. Klein, Dr Murray and others. Now I am going to get my hat handed to me in my hand. You're going to get me in trouble here Scoob. :laugh:

I don't believe there are any conspiracies. Remember, Mr Jackson brought Mr Branca back and that ended anything that had to do with his money.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

If it was Tohme that brought Murray in, that could be very interesting.

No, I don't believe it was. From what I understand one of his children was ill and Dr Murray handled that. That was when he was in Nevada.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Im also concerned about the "Jermaine" factor!!..He has been sorta outa loop with his family..and he kept pushing for the Neverland Buriel site too..and no one else in the family wants that...In heinsight, I am now looking at him thru different glasses...Its up to LE...but I am sure there is far more to this whole story than we know, or could even thinkup!!

LMS:ohmy:

Oh, I doubt that.:biggrin:

[?WudScoobyDo]

IMO Michael Jackson is almost pathological in his lying. Who knows what storying he was spinning and why...........


Whatever story he was spinning wouldn't come close to the "stories" you continue to spin. Its laughable, really.

[retiredcop]

He didn't kill himself. Dr Murray did. They understand that.

IMO

Well, here's hoping they do now, but they will grow up at see things for what they were.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

I know what you mean. OK, I will give it too you even though I said I didn't have a theory. Let me just say that if I were to make bets, It would be that Jermaine and Dr. Thome are two of the main players along with Dr. Klein, Dr Murray and others. Now I am going to get my hat handed to me in my hand. You're going to get me in trouble here Scoob. :laugh:


Its okay.. when it turns out that you are closer to the truth than they ever were, they will all disappear.

[Cindylee]

Im also concerned about the "Jermaine" factor!!..He has been sorta outa loop with his family..and he kept pushing for the Neverland Buriel site too..and no one else in the family wants that...In heinsight, I am now looking at him thru different glasses...Its up to LE...but I am sure there is far more to this whole story than we know, or could even thinkup!!

LMS:ohmy:

And Jermaine is the one putting on the "concert" in Austria. And has plans to have a memorial concert every year in a different city. :ohmy:

[?WudScoobyDo]

Well, here's hoping they do now, but they will grow up at see things for what they were.

in my opinion


They already know what things were, and Paris told the world on the day of Michael's memorial. Maybe you missed it.

[Cindylee]

No, I don't believe it was. From what I understand one of his children was ill and Dr Murray handled that. That was when he was in Nevada.

in my opinion

But, IIRC someone gave MJ Dr. Murray's name. I think it may have been one his security people. But, I don't know.

And why a cardiologist???

[daniel green]

-----------------------

a tube of skin bleaching cream. OHHHHHHH say it aint so..............and i thought MJ had the V disease. yeah right. imo

MJ always seems to have had that around.

[retiredcop]

Whatever story he was spinning wouldn't come close to the "stories" you continue to spin. Its laughable, really.

Oh come on. You can't laugh and choke down crow at the same time.:laugh:

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

Oh, I doubt that.:biggrin:

Oh stop it. I am working on a good conspiracy theory. I like where this is going. :ohmy::laugh:

[retiredcop]

MJ always seems to have had that around.

What was that other stuff? Was that for his bed sores?

[daniel green]

Plus if he still had patches of blotched skin then he would have a need to use it.

Never could understand why that is a big upty doo anyway.

imo

Oh, please. Once you bleach out skin, that is it. No need to keep bleaching.

[retiredcop]

Oh stop it. I am working on a good conspiracy theory. I like where this is going. :ohmy::laugh:

Awwwww OK, but just don't forget Mr Branca was watching the money and the deals.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Well, here's hoping they do now, but they will grow up at see things for what they were.

in my opinion

I do agree. They will become very knowledgeable in understanding why their father had this disease and how he became addicted to prescription drugs and how doctors feed the addict, drug after drug for a certain price.

imo

[?WudScoobyDo]

........NOW....they're worried about the children coming in contact with the drugs????????????

.................HUGE DISGUSTED EYEROLL............


I'm fairly confident that the children had been removed from the home long before the search was executed, and at that point no reason to worry.

[daniel green]

What was that other stuff? Was that for his bed sores?

Just reading it now. Seems like there were some antibiotics and some anti-fungal and antibiotic creams, which could have been for the bed sores.

[Cindylee]

Awwwww OK, but just don't forget Mr Branca was watching the money and the deals.

in my opinion

But, but , but, Dr. T is said to have been still claiming to be representing MJ even after MJ wrote the letter dismissing him. So????? What about that???

[?WudScoobyDo]

Oh, please. Once you bleach out skin, that is it. No need to keep bleaching.


Of course that was his personal choice and really not the business of anyone but him.

[daniel green]

........NOW....they're worried about the children coming in contact with the drugs????????????

.................HUGE DISGUSTED EYEROLL............

I know. Kinda astonishing.

[Cindylee]

I do agree. They will become very knowledgeable in understanding why their father had this disease and how he became addicted to prescription drugs and how doctors feed the addict, drug after drug for a certain price.

imo

I agree it is an illness, but he continued to buy drug after drug. He could have paid to get help. Instead he bought a Dr. Sad.

[GentleBreeze]

Oh, please. Once you bleach out skin, that is it. No need to keep bleaching.

Would you just please stop with all the condescending crap :rolleyes: all the time??? Sheesh it gets so tiresome.

Have you seen all of MJs body? You think only his face, neck and chest has vitiliago. Even TM said that MJ had splotches all over his back and legs. You have no clue why he was still using it or where. In fact it could have been a tube he had had for years.:rolleyes:

imo

[daniel green]

IMO Michael Jackson is almost pathological in his lying. Who knows what storying he was spinning and why...........

I don't think that he was "almost" pathological. I believe he was a pathalogical liar. Gosh, just about every single think that came out of his mouth to the public was a lie.

[Cindylee]

I'm fairly confident that the children had been removed from the home long before the search was executed, and at that point no reason to worry.


"Detective Orlando Martinez wrote, "Conversations with family members lead me to believe that there may be additional medications and/or narcotics at the location as well as the necessity to confiscate these items for the safety of the minor children.""

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PRC1MAUP

I don't really know what they are talking about because I too thought the kids were gone from the house. :shrug:

[retiredcop]

But, but , but, Dr. T is said to have been still claiming to be representing MJ even after MJ wrote the letter dismissing him. So????? What about that???

I think he was out the door when the manager and Mr Branca came on board.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

snipped In fact it could have been a tube he had had for years.:rolleyes:

imo

Oh heavens to betsy, that is funny. :laugh:

Benoquin turns brown after just a little while. Gotta get new tubes of it all the time.

[Unperson1984]

Yes, That was quite ironic.

What's really ironic is that the kids were already with the Jackson family at the time they expressed this concern.

LAPD has left themselves wide open to another charge of incompetence, and now I'm suspicious about what was found on the
29th.

[retiredcop]

"Detective Orlando Martinez wrote, "Conversations with family members lead me to believe that there may be additional medications and/or narcotics at the location as well as the necessity to confiscate these items for the safety of the minor children.""

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PRC1MAUP

I don't really know what they are talking about because I too thought the kids were gone from the house. :shrug:

Absolutely, the children were gone.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

"Detective Orlando Martinez wrote, "Conversations with family members lead me to believe that there may be additional medications and/or narcotics at the location as well as the necessity to confiscate these items for the safety of the minor children.""

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PRC1MAUP

I don't really know what they are talking about because I too thought the kids were gone from the house. :shrug:

I did read it .. a couple times, because it doesn't make sense. They may have had reason to confiscate items, but there is no way the kids were still at the home on the day after his death.

[daniel green]

snipped
I don't really know what they are talking about because I too thought the kids were gone from the house. :shrug:

Why, that is so true. I wonder what on earth that is about.

Talk about a contaminated scene. :ohmy:

[daniel green]

What's really ironic is that the kids were already with the Jackson family at the time they expressed this concern.

LAPD has left themselves wide open to another charge of incompetence, and now I'm suspicious about what was found on the
29th.

I am so with you on this. Totally suspicious.

And, yeah, talk about closing the barn door too late, eh?

[retiredcop]

I agree it is an illness, but he continued to buy drug after drug. He could have paid to get help. Instead he bought a Dr. Sad.

Many doctors.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

I agree it is an illness, but he continued to buy drug after drug. He could have paid to get help. Instead he bought a Dr. Sad.

I think the children will learn just how hard it is for drug addicts to first ask for help and then if they do, how few of them stay sober the rest of their lives.

They will learn it is a brutal disease that robs so many of everything. Their father was not alone as there are many like him and a lot of them have money too and the kids will know that when money is there the addict will pay any amount to the licensed drug pushers who have their hands out.

I think this will become their mission to understand their father's disease hoping they in turn may be able to help someone in need when they are grown and more than able to do so.

IMO

[daniel green]

James Brown imo

Addicts who doctor shop always know who the docs to go to are. He had a dentis, Taddrissi, in LV who seems to have been dosing MJ up, and Adama in LV, too. Murray was sent to MJ's hotel room.

[Cindylee]

Of course that was his personal choice and really not the business of anyone but him.

Everything was his personal choice. His drugs, his surgeries, his shopping, his sharing his bed, all of it his personal choices. And when he went on tv and did interviews and talked about all of his choices, he made it everyone's business. Just like his family announcing all of their plans. They are making it everyone's business. IMO

[retiredcop]

I did read it .. a couple times, because it doesn't make sense. They may have had reason to confiscate items, but there is no way the kids were still at the home on the day after his death.

The Jackson's were their probable cause for the search warrant. I love it. LOL

in my opinion

[daniel green]

snipped

I think this will become their mission to understand their father's disease hoping they in turn may be able to help someone in need when they are grown and more than able to do so.

IMO

Where does one get these kind of fantastical myths and stories?

[?WudScoobyDo]

Why, that is so true. I wonder what on earth that is about.

Talk about a contaminated scene. :ohmy:

Since propofol was the cause of death, we reasonably presume, and since Murray admitted to having administered the lethal dose, I don't see a huge problem with the integrity of the search.

[daniel green]

It was present & seized during every raid on Neverland and "the hideout" and now in his rental home. I don't think he's been dragging around the same tube for years....it's impossible....and well...another really silly excuse. imo

Simply preposterous. A lil ole oz of benoquin, turned brown with contact to air, taking it hither and yon, through decades. :rolleyes:

[GentleBreeze]

I did read it .. a couple times, because it doesn't make sense. They may have had reason to confiscate items, but there is no way the kids were still at the home on the day after his death.

Does it say where it was found? Could it have been found in somethings the Jacksons took to their compound and when they found it they called LE to come get it?

Whatever, it seems the Jacksons turned it over to police.

Even though it wasn't tar heroin after all and was rancid old marijuana.

imo

[Cindylee]

I think he was out the door when the manager and Mr Branca came on board.

in my opinion

But, in the video I posted, he was at the hospital making an announcement, and still two weeks after MJ died, he is giving an interview at Neverland saying he is in charge of MJ's business. ???

[Cindylee]

Many doctors.

in my opinion True........

[daniel green]

snipped You think only his face, neck and chest has vitiliago.

I don't believe for one second he had vitiligo. Pls don't bother to re-post those pics from that blog claiming to prove he did. We have seen those over and over.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Simply preposterous. A lil ole oz of benoquin, turned brown with contact to air, taking it hither and yon, through decades. :rolleyes:


I'd like to know what this post has to do with the death of MJ. Can you admit that you just enjoy any opportunity to degrade a dead man?

[daniel green]

Everything was his personal choice. His drugs, his surgeries, his shopping, his sharing his bed, all of it his personal choices. And when he went on tv and did interviews and talked about all of his choices, he made it everyone's business. Just like his family announcing all of their plans. They are making it everyone's business. IMO

They always did.

Even their alleged grieving process, going to be blasted on a reality tv show.

[retiredcop]

But, in the video I posted, he was at the hospital making an announcement, and still two weeks after MJ died, he is giving an interview at Neverland saying he is in charge of MJ's business. ???

But he wasn't in charge of anything at that time. Dollars to donuts the manager and Branca wouldn't have allowed it. I think he was lying.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

Does it say where it was found? Could it have been found in somethings the Jacksons took to their compound and when they found it they called LE to come get it?

Whatever, it seems the Jacksons turned it over to police.

Even though it wasn't tar heroin after all and was rancid old marijuana.

imo

I was wondering about that too. I haven't seen brown marijuana in years. Why on earth would MJ or his doctor be smoking crappy pot, when the high grade is so available.

[GentleBreeze]

I don't believe for one second he had vitiligo. Pls don't bother to re-post those pics from that blog claiming to prove he did. We have seen those over and over.

Who made you the thread monitor?:no:

Don't tell me what to do. I had no intentions of doing so but now I will since it is being discussed again.

And if the only posts you can muster up are sarcastic ones please put me on ignore.

imo

[Cindylee]

But he wasn't in charge of anything at that time. Dollars to donuts the manager and Branca wouldn't have allowed it. I think he was lying.

in my opinion

Well, I hope so, and he didn't still have access to his accounts and business. But, he did still have 5 million plus dollars. AND, quit trying to ruin my new theory. :biggrin::wink:

[daniel green]

So this warrant says the found:

1 marijuana--2 baggies

2 XALATAN Sterile Ophthalmic Solution is indicated for the reduction of elevated intraocular pressure in patients with open-angle glaucoma or ocular hypertension

3 Temazepam (Restoril--old school hysnotic)

4 Benoquin, 20%

5) Valisone--Rx strength cortisone cream

[?WudScoobyDo]

Not curious enough........read my posts.

BTW The topic isn't me. It's flattering that you always want to discuss me, but your breaking TOS and the other posters may find the off topic posts as BORING as I do.;)

I dont think the title of this thread or its topic says " Jackson disgusting comments discussion"

[Cindylee]

I dont think the title of this thread or its topic says " Jackson disgusting comments discussion"

Sorry Scooby, but it also doesn't say, "only good comment allowed". You just have to take the good with the bad. IMO

[GentleBreeze]

I'd like to know what this post has to do with the death of MJ. Can you admit that you just enjoy any opportunity to degrade a dead man?

http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/vitiligo-photos-michael-jackson/

This shows it effected his upper and lower body.

imo

[daniel green]

found at rented house, as per warrant:

6) box of empty nystatin (anti-fungal) and Triamcinolone Ointment,
more topical steroid cream

7) Fex Ex envelope with tracking number

[Roxxanne]

------------

Yep............cause he wanted to be white but u just go on and believe what u want. imo


I will and you go right on believing what you want!

[daniel green]

8) empty bottle of Ativan

9) empty bottle of valium

10) 4 bottles on unknown pills, amber and green

[daniel green]

Search warrant says they are to search for and seize any heroin or paraphanelia.

[Cindylee]

------------

the jackson's credible? lol u giving those people too much credit. i think theres a lot of people here that would love to make this into some bigggggggggggg conspiracy.......not gonna happen. imo

:crying:...........:crying:

[daniel green]

pg 3/3 of Affidavit

No staff was allowed to leave ground floor or go upstairs.

No other adults other than MJ lived in the house

Jackson families called LAPD and said they had found heroin in MJ's
bedroom

[Cindylee]

pg 3/3 of Affidavit

No staff was allowed to leave ground floor or go upstairs.

No other adults other than MJ lived in the house

Jackson families called LAPD and said they had found heroin in MJ's
bedroom

But, didn't that turn out to not be heroin? :confused:

[?WudScoobyDo]

Sorry Scooby, but it also doesn't say, "only good comment allowed". You just have to take the good with the bad. IMO


I saw an interesting comment by CW today. I hope she won't mind if I post it here.
__________________________________________________ _______
Originally Posted by Coldwater
snipped for relevance

Have you been perfect all your life, what would be said about you?? Think of it as one of your own family, then if you still can post a public derogatory message you are to prayed for also PLUS it will be deleted if seen.

Thank you.


And no I'm not bias so don't PM me, I make this on all death forums if I see the deceased being "bashed".

[Cindylee]

I saw an interesting comment by CW today. I hope she won't mind if I post it here.
__________________________________________________ _______
Originally Posted by Coldwater
snipped for relevance

Have you been perfect all your life, what would be said about you?? Think of it as one of your own family, then if you still can post a public derogatory message you are to prayed for also PLUS it will be deleted if seen.

Thank you.


And no I'm not bias so don't PM me, I make this on all death forums if I see the deceased being "bashed".

And that was in regards to Senator Kennedy. There is a MJ memorial thread.

[daniel green]

Affidavit says that MJ had injection marks.

[?WudScoobyDo]

But, didn't that turn out to not be heroin? :confused:


Thats right. It was NOT heroin.

[daniel green]

But, didn't that turn out to not be heroin? :confused:

Doesn't say here.

[Cindylee]

Affidavit says that MJ had injection marks. But, those could be injections for anything. Demerol?

[?WudScoobyDo]

Affidavit says that MJ had injection marks.


I'm surprised you didn't know that already.

[Cindylee]

Doesn't say here.


Heroin at Jackson's House -- Not So Fast

Posted Aug 27th 2009 6:00PM by TMZ Staff

UPDATE: A source connected with the case tells TMZ the "tar heroin" was tested -- and the results showed it was not heroin of any kind. This is not reflected in the warrant.

A search warrant affidavit just released from the search of Michael Jackson's home says the Jackson family notified L.A. County Assistant Chief Coroner Ed Winter that they found "tar heroin in a bag" in Jackson's bedroom. Chief Winter notified LAPD detectives of the found evidence.

The search also turned up two baggies of "marijuana."

Cops also found Benoquin in the master bathroom. Benoquin is a bleaching cream.

The affidavit also says surveillance cameras at Jackson's home captured Dr. Conrad Murray arriving at 1:00 AM the day Jackson died.

As for what else was found during the search -- an empty bottle of Lorazepam, an empty bottle of Diazepam, a baggy with the medical label with the name Dr. Conrad Murray, 2 cigarette packs, 1 cigarette paper, 4 pill bottles and 1 shaving case.

Detective Orlando Martinez wrote, "Conversations with family members lead me to believe that there may be additional medications and/or narcotics at the location as well as the necessity to confiscate these items for the safety of the minor children."

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0PRLSc0vt

[daniel green]

But, those could be injections for anything. Demerol?

Or the antigen to benzos Murray said he gave him. But that would only be one injection.

[daniel green]

Heroin at Jackson's House -- Not So Fast

Posted Aug 27th 2009 6:00PM by TMZ Staff

UPDATE: A source connected with the case tells TMZ the "tar heroin" was tested -- and the results showed it was not heroin of any kind. This is not reflected in the warrant.

snipped

I saw that earlier tonight and posted it.

[Cindylee]

Or the antigen to benzos Murray said he gave him. But that would only be one injection.

I would just be guessing, but I think the injections sites are a long standing thing.

[?WudScoobyDo]

And that was in regards to Senator Kennedy. There is a MJ memorial thread.

In my world deceased means deceased regardless of who you are.

By the way the memorial thread has been locked for some time now, as far as I know.

[Cindylee]

I saw that earlier tonight and posted it. I know. So it says it wasn't heroin. Right?

[Roxxanne]

http://floacist.wordpress.com/2007/06/10/vitiligo-photos-michael-jackson/

This shows it effected his upper and lower body.

imo

Thanks GB! I had seen a you tube of some of these pix but not all of them. It must have been really hard to go through that and be in the spotlight.

[daniel green]

Debbie R back at Klein's office today. DD said he had canceled all his appts.

[daniel green]

I know. So it says it wasn't heroin. Right?

TMZ says that a source told them it had turned out not to be heroin.

[Cindylee]

In my world deceased means deceased regardless of who you are.

By the way the memorial thread has been locked for some time now, as far as I know.

This thread has been going on for a couple of months now. It is the MJ thread. Not just memorials to the man. My goodness if you couldn't say anything about good or bad about a dead person on this message board, it would have closed a long time ago. IMO

[daniel green]

I would just be guessing, but I think the injections sites are a long standing thing.

I agree. The more stuff comes out, the more those initial reports about the body riddled with injection marks, 110 lbs, etc, are true.

[?WudScoobyDo]

----------------
If MJ didnt have color barrier, then why didnt he have black kids? Because he wasnt proud of his heritage.
Taking pics with kids around the world is totally different. imo


Do you have a link to scentific proof that those kids are not his, or that they are 100 percent caucasion?