Prosecutor to Probe CIA Interrogations

[Not Telling]

The recommendation by the Office of Professional Responsibility, presented to Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. in recent weeks, comes as the Justice Department is about to disclose on Monday voluminous details on prisoner abuse that were gathered in 2004 by the C.I.A.’s inspector general but have never been released.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/us/politics/24detain.html




A long-awaited report on post-9/11 interrogation tactics will reveal harrowing new details about treatment of suspected terrorists.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/213188

[daniel green]

To investigate CIA wrongdoing.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=357641

[Hey Paula]

Is this part of a plot to move yet another division into direct control of this regime? What's next, a Detainee Interrogation Czar? Will Leon Panetta quit?

EXCERPT:

President Obama has approved the creation of an elite team of interrogators to question key terrorism suspects, part of a broader effort to revamp U.S. policy on detention and interrogation, senior administration officials said Sunday.

Obama signed off late last week on the unit, named the High-Value Detainee Interrogation Group, or HIG. Made up of experts from several intelligence and law enforcement agencies, the interrogation unit will be housed at the FBI but will be overseen by the National Security Council — shifting the center of gravity away from the CIA and giving the White House direct oversight. …

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/24/panetta-to-quit-cia/

[worried]

Is this part of a plot to move yet another division into direct control of this regime? What's next, a Detainee Interrogation Czar? Will Leon Panetta quit?

EXCERPT:

President Obama has approved the creation of an elite team of interrogators to question key terrorism suspects, part of a broader effort to revamp U.S. policy on detention and interrogation, senior administration officials said Sunday.

Obama signed off late last week on the unit, named the High-Value Detainee Interrogation Group, or HIG. Made up of experts from several intelligence and law enforcement agencies, the interrogation unit will be housed at the FBI but will be overseen by the National Security Council — shifting the center of gravity away from the CIA and giving the White House direct oversight. …

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/24/panetta-to-quit-cia/

No wonder Obama has upped his budget proposal for the next ten years by another 2 trillion dollars. He is appointing oversight committees for everything, on our dime. Weren't the dems crying about balancing the budget the last 8 years while Bush was on a spending spree? Hypocritical at best.

[Hey Paula]

No wonder Obama has upped his budget proposal for the next ten years by another 2 trillion dollars. He is appointing oversight committees for everything, on our dime. Weren't the dems crying about balancing the budget the last 8 years while Bush was on a spending spree? Hypocritical at best.

It seems the only "jobs, jobs, jobs" BO is creating are for his own use in increasing the power of his regime.

I recall GWB admonishing Congress about adding unnecessary spending to necessary bills, even threatening to veto them.

I often wonder if this was intentional (on the part of the Dems) to gain control of the WH in the 2008 elections by inflating the deficit. We now have a "never let a crisis go to waste" situation.

IMO

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Is this part of a plot to move yet another division into direct control of this regime? What's next, a Detainee Interrogation Czar? Will Leon Panetta quit?

EXCERPT:

President Obama has approved the creation of an elite team of interrogators to question key terrorism suspects, part of a broader effort to revamp U.S. policy on detention and interrogation, senior administration officials said Sunday.

Obama signed off late last week on the unit, named the High-Value Detainee Interrogation Group, or HIG. Made up of experts from several intelligence and law enforcement agencies, the interrogation unit will be housed at the FBI but will be overseen by the National Security Council — shifting the center of gravity away from the CIA and giving the White House direct oversight. …

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/24/panetta-to-quit-cia/

A great way to deflect attention from the Obama health care crisis IMO.

[magythekat]

This "regime" just gets scarier and scarier.
The money that is being paid to all of these "Czars" comes right from our taxes...and also Czar is not an American word..it reminds me of Russia...and something about that worries me. IMOO:scared:

[CANDYKISSES]

A great way to deflect attention from the Obama health care crisis IMO.

Indeed it serves that purpose IMO. :thumbdown:

[MercedesV]

The recommendation by the Office of Professional Responsibility, presented to Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. in recent weeks, comes as the Justice Department is about to disclose on Monday voluminous details on prisoner abuse that were gathered in 2004 by the C.I.A.’s inspector general but have never been released.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/us/politics/24detain.html




A long-awaited report on post-9/11 interrogation tactics will reveal harrowing new details about treatment of suspected terrorists.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/213188

Long overdue. What has been going on is a disgrace at best. It needs to be investigated, a bright light shown on it, and justice done. Enough with hiding everything.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

ITA! Wag the Dog!


I mean no one else finds this a bit convenient? First the supposed massacre investigation 2 weeks into the Afghan war and now this?

[watcher2005]

I mean no one else finds this a bit convenient? First the supposed massacre investigation 2 weeks into the Afghan war and now this?


I think it's probably a good thing, --and-- "a bit convenient" with even some of the left getting antsy lately.

But will much come of it? We shall see.


What it does show... is that even as far as the New World Order has come, the American People can be heard with stuff like this, with tea party's, and with ambigious government health plans... if they will only have the courage to speak.

High five for America. God Bless America. :patriot:

[Hey Paula]

I mean no one else finds this a bit convenient? First the supposed massacre investigation 2 weeks into the Afghan war and now this?

Since deflection is SOP for this regime, I suppose some are immune to its effects. If the MSM would do its job, in lieu of its assumed "protect Obama" mission, the less informed citizenry might stand up and take notice. I believe the MSM will suffer irreparable damage for their failure to report all the facts. They have lost credibility and trust, and it shows in their TV ratings along with a decline in newspaper subscriptions. I know a number of people who have canceled their NYT subscriptions.

IMO

[watcher2005]

...They have lost credibility and trust, and it shows in their TV ratings along with a decline in newspaper subscriptions. ...
IMO

I didn't know they had it. I thought it was more of a habit or maybe hypnosis. :laugh:

[Hey Paula]

I didn't know they had it. I thought it was more of a habit or maybe hypnosis. :laugh:

You might be right. Bad habits are hard to break and hypnosis is hard to resist. :biggrin:

[ABC]

I mean no one else finds this a bit convenient? First the supposed massacre investigation 2 weeks into the Afghan war and now this?
You bet I do. The Health Plan is tanking, Obama's rating are tanking, that 2 Trillion Dollar Math Error has made folks angry and now he is trying to run against George W. Bush, again. Way to convenient and surprise, surprise, Holder is Obama's employee and he does nothing without prior approval from the White House, IMOO. I don't think the American people are not going to like this, particularlly as the mass majority who have no sympathy for the Terrorist and think they got their just desserts. This is really going to blow up in the Dems faces and in particular, Obama. This is as ill advised as accussing the Cambridge Police Department as "acting stupidly" cause Sgt. Crawley arrested a guy who got in his face. I agree that the newspapers and TV shows are paying the price for their liberal agenda. I stopped reading the NYT three years ago due to their coverage of the Duke Lacrosse event and the WP and the LAT and the Chicago Tribune.

[Jumbo1]

You bet I do. The Health Plan is tanking, Obama's rating are tanking, that 2 Trillion Dollar Math Error has made folks angry and now he is trying to run against George W. Bush, again. Way to convenient and surprise, surprise, Holder is Obama's employee and he does nothing without prior approval from the White House, IMOO. I don't think the American people are not going to like this, particularlly as the mass majority who have no sympathy for the Terrorist and think they got their just desserts. This is really going to blow up in the Dems faces and in particular, Obama. This is as ill advised as accussing the Cambridge Police Department as "acting stupidly" cause Sgt. Crawley arrested a guy who got in his face. I agree that the newspapers and TV shows are paying the price for their liberal agenda. I stopped reading the NYT three years ago due to their coverage of the Duke Lacrosse event and the WP and the LAT and the Chicago Tribune.

Nope, that was the Bush/ Rove DOJ with all the loyal Bushies screened by the Regent Law experts. Obama has tried to ignore these war crimes by looking forward & forgetting the past.

[theal3]

When did we become a Nation that ignores the rule of law? internationally and otherwise. We were the leaders against abuse of power and the nurenberg trials, etc. We showed the whole world we were going to try throw a Pres. out of office for lying about his private sex life, cause he lied under oath. Bush ad Cheney swore on a Bible and took and oath and lied, as we are finding out. The prisons and all all revelations about Blackwater etc, is sickening, even tho, at the time we "suspected" and were shouted down for even suggesting such attrocities or violations of the Constitution. Called unpatriotic. Now especially the GOP wants to brush it off. I'm sickened by what the last Admin. did in our name. And the GOP won't even give a 1/4 inch to the new admin., to rectify all the wrongs.

What about the rule of law? nation of laws. The shiningbeacon etc. etal? Guess I'm a bleeding hearty liberal who believe in the rule of law, treaties, and the Constitution,no matter how high the office. And yes, I felt it was Okay, but nit picky to prosecute Clinton for his private indescretion..... but if that is the litmus test for Presidents: the entire Bush Admin should be in jail. IMHO

[snookums1]

In appointing a prosecutor to investigate alleged CIA interrogation abuses, including episodes that resulted in prisoner deaths, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. on Monday shook off warnings from President Obama to avoid becoming mired in past controversies.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/24/AR2009082401743.html?hpid=topnews

WTG Holder. We cannot appear to be a respectable nation without first washing our face. And this has been long overdue.

[snookums1]

We have laws in this country and we have signed onto international pacts pledging not to torture people. We did so in an effort to prevent our own from being torured, did so because we do not believe in inhumane acts and did so because we were an honorable country that tries to follow God's rules on how to treat people. All of that has been ignorred in recent years. We cannot move forward in the hopes of being once again respected unless we prove we are again a country bound by law.

[orangetaffy]

I think torture is probably a bad thing. I think the Geneva convention is probably a good thing. But, I also think what looks good on paper, or in theory, isnt always what reality is about.

I ask myself, if someone had my daughter, and was raping and abusing her...and I managed to get my hands on one of the people I felt was responsible...how far would I be willing to go to find her? Would I be willing to put a gun to their head? Would I be willing to make them think I was killing or beating someone else in another room? I would like to say "no way! Im better than that", but the truth of the matter is, I think that would probably be a lie on my part. I think when it came down to it, I would probably do whatever I thought would get my daughter back.

[snookums1]

I think torture is probably a bad thing. I think the Geneva convention is probably a good thing. But, I also think what looks good on paper, or in theory, isnt always what reality is about.

I ask myself, if someone had my daughter, and was raping and abusing her...and I managed to get my hands on one of the people I felt was responsible...how far would I be willing to go to find her? Would I be willing to put a gun to their head? Would I be willing to make them think I was killing or beating someone else in another room? I would like to say "no way! Im better than that", but the truth of the matter is, I think that would probably be a lie on my part. I think when it came down to it, I would probably do whatever I thought would get my daughter back. That is something totally different than what was done in by members of our country over recent years. If you know someone in a high ranking position in the military, ask them if our torturing people puts our own at risk.

[orangetaffy]

That is something totally different than what was done in by members of our country over recent years. If you know someone in a high ranking position in the military, ask them if our torturing people puts our own at risk.

Been there..done that. Served my 6 years. I know what most military folks would say. Kill em all..let God sort em out.

ETA: These people would strap explosives to their own mother if they thought they could kill an American. Torture or no torture, the goal is to wipe out any American they can.

[Jumbo1]

I think torture is probably a bad thing. I think the Geneva convention is probably a good thing. But, I also think what looks good on paper, or in theory, isnt always what reality is about.

I ask myself, if someone had my daughter, and was raping and abusing her...and I managed to get my hands on one of the people I felt was responsible...how far would I be willing to go to find her? Would I be willing to put a gun to their head? Would I be willing to make them think I was killing or beating someone else in another room? I would like to say "no way! Im better than that", but the truth of the matter is, I think that would probably be a lie on my part. I think when it came down to it, I would probably do whatever I thought would get my daughter back.

If it's fine for us to torture why wouldn't it also be OK for them to torture you're daughter should she ever become captured?

[orangetaffy]

If it's fine for us to torture why wouldn't it also be OK for them to torture you're daughter should she ever become captured?

I would expect she would be. Probably more than tortured, most likely beheaded. I dont think the taliban, al qaeda etc gives much thought to the Geneva Convention.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

If it's fine for us to torture why wouldn't it also be OK for them to torture you're daughter should she ever become captured?

TBQH some of that has been deemed "torture" is laughable IMO. Female undergarment on someone head-- torture? Please!

So of it is torture but some of it is ridiculous claims IMO.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

I would expect she would be. Probably more than tortured, most likely beheaded. I dont think the taliban, al qaeda etc gives much thought to the Geneva Convention.

Berg and Pearl come to mind quite quickly!

and

Taliban behead grandmother and grandson, 7, for 'spying for the Americans'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-501919/Taliban-behead-grandmother-grandson-7-spying-Americans.html

[MercedesV]

I would expect she would be. Probably more than tortured, most likely beheaded. I dont think the taliban, al qaeda etc gives much thought to the Geneva Convention.

And would you be outraged that she was tortured?

Seems if we aren't outraged by the use of torture when we do it, we can't or shouldn't be outraged when our enemies do it. Either you believe torture is acceptable, or you don't believe it is acceptable. No matter who is doing it to who.

[orangetaffy]

And would you be outraged that she was tortured?

Seems if we aren't outraged by the use of torture when we do it, we can't or shouldn't be outraged when our enemies do it. Either you believe torture is acceptable, or you don't believe it is acceptable. No matter who is doing it to who.

I believe you cant fight terrorism with a beer summit. War is war, and it is hell. Things happen that no one can ever understand, but none the less, they happen. Telling our troops they have to make nice while their fello soldiers are being butchered does nothing but make then wonder why in the world they are there in the first place. Put their life on the line for $1600.00/month, while the very leader of the country you are fighting for is spending his time telling the world how shamefull this country is, then he turns around and tries to bring more shame upon the troops by saying they are less than honorable men and women? No wonder recruiting numbers are down since the election.

[Susan43]

And would you be outraged that she was tortured?

Seems if we aren't outraged by the use of torture when we do it, we can't or shouldn't be outraged when our enemies do it. Either you believe torture is acceptable, or you don't believe it is acceptable. No matter who is doing it to who.

That's the point isn't it? Either one is for or against torture. To me it's a moral question. George Washington wouldn't allow the army to torture or mistreat the Hessians.

First among these may well be the tradition of humane warfare, articulated by George Washington after the Battle of Trenton, December 24, 1776. “Treat them with humanity,” Washington directed with respect to the captured Hessians. He forbade physical abuse and directed the detainees be quartered with the German-speaking residents of Eastern Pennsylvania, in the expectation that they would become “so fraught with a love of liberty, and property too, that they may create a disgust to the service among the rest of the foreign troops, and widen the breach which is already opened between them and the British.”

He went on to say...

“While we are contending for our own liberty, we should be very cautious of violating the rights of conscience in others, ever considering that God alone is the judge of hearts of men, and to Him only in this case are they answerable.”


http://thegooddemocrat.wordpress.com/2007/02/19/george-washington-and-the-treatment-of-the-enemy/

From the beginning of this country we stood for the high moral ground. We imprisoned and executed people that did the same things we have been accused of doing. (I have plenty of links to that)

I am ashamed of any American that would give up the moral ground so easily and/or make excuses for those that do it. I've wanted to think we were better then that, but I guess not. It really isn't about them, it's about us as a people.

[orangetaffy]

For one thing, I dont consider these "harsh interrogation techniques" to be torture. Head games, yes...torture, no. Our own law enforcement uses head games on suspects every day, and there is nothing illegal about it. How many interrogations have we seen where the suspect is begging to go to sleep? Sleep deprivation is used quite often by LE. Are they torturing suspects? When they tell a suspect how "you will be soooo loved by the big guys when you get to prison. Do you know what they do to pretty boys like you?" Is that torture?

[flareon]

I believe you cant fight terrorism with a beer summit. War is war, and it is hell. Things happen that no one can ever understand, but none the less, they happen. Telling our troops they have to make nice while their fello soldiers are being butchered does nothing but make then wonder why in the world they are there in the first place. Put their life on the line for $1600.00/month, while the very leader of the country you are fighting for is spending his time telling the world how shamefull this country is, then he turns around and tries to bring more shame upon the troops by saying they are less than honorable men and women? No wonder recruiting numbers are down since the election.

You are right, but it is just more of their situational values and morals. It always depends on the letter behind the name and little thought is who is put in danger due to their ideology run amuck.

[flareon]

For one thing, I dont consider these "harsh interrogation techniques" to be torture. Head games, yes...torture, no. Our own law enforcement uses head games on suspects every day, and there is nothing illegal about it. How many interrogations have we seen where the suspect is begging to go to sleep? Sleep deprivation is used quite often by LE. Are they torturing suspects? When they tell a suspect how "you will be soooo loved by the big guys when you get to prison. Do you know what they do to pretty boys like you?" Is that torture?

Don't laugh. To some of these people it would be. I don't know how many times I have seen a defense attorney try to get a confession thrown out because their client was so stupid they fell for a ploy and actually told the truth for once in their life.

[orangetaffy]

Don't laugh. To some of these people it would be. I don't know how many times I have seen a defense attorney try to get a confession thrown out because their client was so stupid they fell for a ploy and actually told the truth for once in their life.

All I can say is...if our government got word that in 3 days, nerve agents were going to be released in 7 U.S. cities, and they had captured 2 of the plotters...I would expect them to get answers from the 2 of them. And I really wouldnt care how they got those answers.

[MercedesV]

For one thing, I dont consider these "harsh interrogation techniques" to be torture. Head games, yes...torture, no. Our own law enforcement uses head games on suspects every day, and there is nothing illegal about it. How many interrogations have we seen where the suspect is begging to go to sleep? Sleep deprivation is used quite often by LE. Are they torturing suspects? When they tell a suspect how "you will be soooo loved by the big guys when you get to prison. Do you know what they do to pretty boys like you?" Is that torture?

We have killed people with these 'head games'. Ignoring what we are doing isn't going to make it go away. Read the recently released reports. We used torture, not head games.

[flareon]

All I can say is...if our government got word that in 3 days, nerve agents were going to be released in 7 U.S. cities, and they had captured 2 of the plotters...I would expect them to get answers from the 2 of them. And I really wouldnt care how they got those answers.

Well, I wouldn't go so far to cheer for a beheading or anything like that, but I wouldn't have a problem with many of the tactics previously used.

Now that they have been used, I'm sure the professionals have now looked at the results in order to determine what was the most beneficial and what changes could be implemented. I'm talking about the real professionals and not some wannabe who is willing to say anything to grab their "fifteen minutes".

For as long as I can remember, it has always been an accepted fact that people rest easier because of those in the armed forces and CIA performing tasks that many people wouldn't have the stomach for.

[orangetaffy]

We have killed people with these 'head games'. Ignoring what we are doing isn't going to make it go away. Read the recently released reports. We used torture, not head games.

Ive read them. I dont have an issue with it.

[Jumbo1]

I would expect she would be. Probably more than tortured, most likely beheaded. I dont think the taliban, al qaeda etc gives much thought to the Geneva Convention.

And that makes you want us to follow their lead?

[Jumbo1]

All I can say is...if our government got word that in 3 days, nerve agents were going to be released in 7 U.S. cities, and they had captured 2 of the plotters...I would expect them to get answers from the 2 of them. And I really wouldnt care how they got those answers.

Great movie plot, are you a writer for "24"?

[orangetaffy]

Just how many American lives is the left willing to put at risk? We know for a fact that waterboarding prevented Americans from having their heads blown off. Period. I do not really care that three jihadists were waterboarded.

That's what I hear so many saying. better to have 3 or 4 thousand American's blown up than to twist the arm of a terrorist for information. Hope folks still feel that way when it is their loved one who is blown to pieces by some act that could have been prevented.

[Silver & Go]

should be indicted for treason.

They are only in it for the money...to hell with the safety of the U.S.

Poor terrorists...embarrassed and all..:cursing:

[Not Telling]

Just how many American lives is the left willing to put at risk? We know for a fact that waterboarding prevented Americans from having their heads blown off. Period. I do not really care that three jihadists were waterboarded.

What facts do you know that waterboarding prevented Americans from having their heads blown off? Which Americans? Who was stopped from blowing their heads off and how were they stopped?

[Not Telling]

I would encourage you to read up on it.:smile:

Since you're claiming to know a fact and didn't provide a link, why don't you post the information and I'll be more than happy to read up on it?

[Not Telling]

In a strong pushback against claims made by former Vice President Dick Cheney, Sen. John McCain insisted on Sunday that the use of torture on terrorism suspects violated international law, didn't work, and actually helped al Qaeda recruit additional members.

"I think the interrogations were in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the convention against torture that we ratified under President Reagan," said the Arizona Republican. "I think these interrogations, once publicized, helped al Qaeda recruit. I got that from an al Qaeda operative in a prison camp in Iraq... I think that the ability of us to work with our allies was harmed. And I believe that information, according to the FBI and others, could have been gained through other members."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/30/mccain-whacks-cheney-tort_n_272179.html

[Brentwood]

In a strong pushback against claims made by former Vice President Dick Cheney, Sen. John McCain insisted on Sunday that the use of torture on terrorism suspects violated international law, didn't work, and actually helped al Qaeda recruit additional members.

"I think the interrogations were in violation of the Geneva Conventions and the convention against torture that we ratified under President Reagan," said the Arizona Republican. "I think these interrogations, once publicized, helped al Qaeda recruit. I got that from an al Qaeda operative in a prison camp in Iraq... I think that the ability of us to work with our allies was harmed. And I believe that information, according to the FBI and others, could have been gained through other members."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/30/mccain-whacks-cheney-tort_n_272179.html

I have to give McCain kudos for speaking up on how wrong torture is.

[Brentwood]

The recommendation by the Office of Professional Responsibility, presented to Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. in recent weeks, comes as the Justice Department is about to disclose on Monday voluminous details on prisoner abuse that were gathered in 2004 by the C.I.A.’s inspector general but have never been released.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/24/us/politics/24detain.html




A long-awaited report on post-9/11 interrogation tactics will reveal harrowing new details about treatment of suspected terrorists.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/213188

The cia wrongdoing needs to come out, then I hope that the source of the wrong doing (bush/cheney) are brought to justice.

[ShooFly]

Right on Mr. McCain.:thumbup:

[Bill Justice]

Cheney won two national elections.
McCain ..er..um...

and..he also said..

McCain still insisted that the Obama Justice Department was wrong to launch an investigation into the matter.

[Susan43]

Good for McCain! I'm actually a little suprised he is being so honest. But have to give him kudos for this. :thumbup:

[theal3]

McCain was right, and he would know. He fought hard to get the anti torture law passed, then it went in closed doors and he settled for the field manual...... and then, later it comes out Bush/Cheney had "secrets," and I think McCain feels betrayed.

Curious, though, today Gonzales said today, or it was reported today, that he agrees with what Holter, Attn General is doing in looking into what happened: the Rule of Law. While Cheney thinks it politics, but that's what he and Bush did. Too Bad Gonzales had to play along with Bush/Cheney out of loyalty and politics. Then they threw him under the bus, like so many others.

[orangetaffy]

Obama Moves Closer to Darth Cheney on Torture:

"President Barack Obama. He campaigned against torture and for restoring America’s good name in the world by abiding by the Geneva Conventions. But now in office, he’s decided to continue rendition and has come out -- at least publicly -- against any criminal investigation of Central Intelligence Agency interrogations of terror suspects. "

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=ahaXPFlbIWb4

[flareon]

Obama Moves Closer to Darth Cheney on Torture:

"President Barack Obama. He campaigned against torture and for restoring America’s good name in the world by abiding by the Geneva Conventions. But now in office, he’s decided to continue rendition and has come out -- at least publicly -- against any criminal investigation of Central Intelligence Agency interrogations of terror suspects. "

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=ahaXPFlbIWb4

This is typical of his approach. He says one thing publicly and then behind closed doors it is an entirely different matter.