8/26 - 10/12

[MystryPhobia]

Hey everybody... CW has given us permission to discuss Nicholas and his disappearance

Several things have happened since we last were able to post about him.

Christine has married and left the state.

There has been discussion among those that knew him on b3 and now other sites that Nicholas has been found.. living in Dana Point (e)?, California and that he either works for or owns a cleaning company by the name 'Nicolas Cleans'. I was hoping some of the sleuths on here might be able to find out some information. Calls have been made to the business but they don't return them. I have NO IDEA if KCSO has been notified of this or where it originated from.

As far as I know he is still listed as missing.

I haven't had a lot of time to look into any of this or even try to verify any of it. But.. do think that it is a good starting point for starting the discussion back up.

Thanks CW for allowing us to talk about this new information. :wub:

[Leanne Weich]

Interesting Mystery. Here is a link to that business.

http://www.nicolascleans.com/

[Musterion]

Hey everybody... CW has given us permission to discuss Nicholas and his disappearance

Several things have happened since we last were able to post about him.

Christine has married and left the state.

There has been discussion among those that knew him on b3 and now other sites that Nicholas has been found.. living in Dana Point (e)?, California and that he either works for or owns a cleaning company by the name 'Nicolas Cleans'. I was hoping some of the sleuths on here might be able to find out some information. Calls have been made to the business but they don't return them. I have NO IDEA if KCSO has been notified of this or where it originated from.

As far as I know he is still listed as missing.

I haven't had a lot of time to look into any of this or even try to verify any of it. But.. do think that it is a good starting point for starting the discussion back up.

Thanks CW for allowing us to talk about this new information. :wub:

Thank you, CW! And, thank you, Miss M. for starting the thread.

M.

[n/t]

FWIW, with his incredible graphic design talent and his love of technology (his laptop and internet), I have a difficult time believing he would open up a cleaning business but hey, anything is possible I suppose.

If true, I'm glad he's alive and doing well.

What state did the former Mrs Francisco move to? California? :w00t:

[Musterion]

Interesting Mystery. Here is a link to that business.

http://www.nicolascleans.com/

Hi Leanne!

Thanks for that link.

Here is an update:

"As far as we know, Nicholas Francisco is still missing, and has never been found. There are rumors that has been found at a cleaning company in California but again this is not verified and we have no way to verify. No calls have been returned."

http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=5689

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

FWIW, with his incredible graphic design talent and his love of technology (his laptop and internet), I have a difficult time believing he would open up a cleaning business but hey, anything is possible I suppose.

If true, I'm glad he's alive and doing well.

What state did the former Mrs Francisco move to? California?
:w00t:

And would he use his real name, albeit a slight change in spelling?

IMO.
M.

[n/t]

Hi Leanne!

Thanks for that link.

Here is an update:

"As far as we know, Nicholas Francisco is still missing, and has never been found. There are rumors that has been found at a cleaning company in California but again this is not verified and we have no way to verify. No calls have been returned."

http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=5689

IMO.
M.

Oh dear. I would hate to be the owner of that company if it's not Nicholas. Imagine the people calling there to find out? Yikes.

So, as far as we know, it hasn't been confirmed by a credible source and it's just a rumor and Nicholas is still missing.

[n/t]

And would he use his real name, albeit a slight change in spelling?

IMO.
M.

Exactly. It could be possible but highly unlikely. And....move to a Western State?? I would think if he wanted to vanish without a trace, he'd move somewhere less obvious? Don't you think? A foreign country, perhaps? Or the East Coast? :shrug:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Oh dear. I would hate to be the owner of that company if it's not Nicholas. Imagine the people calling there to find out? Yikes.



(respectfully snipped)
AY YI YI YI YI n/t - can you imagine??........in order to open a business, there would have had to of been a paper trail a mile long. You don't just hang a sign out. He would have needed money, credit, and references, possibly have to sign a lease. He would have had to file income tax, and probably get a drivers license in California, all in his own name. Did KCSO never look for him or what? Geeeeeeeeeez

JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

I am very concerned if this is Nicholas. Unless he had a lobotomy when he got to California, it would not make one bit of sense that he would open up a business on main street while the entire world thinks he is missing. He has been featured on America's Most Wanted, Nancy Grace, GVS, and numerous print articles have been written about him, including updates from Publicis, his former employer. Thousands and thousands of posts have been written about him on at least three message boards that I know of. This was not a low profile case.

IF this is him, I hope his family flies down there and takes him to a hospital.....I'm serious.....

[n/t]

(respectfully snipped)
AY YI YI YI YI n/t - can you imagine??........in order to open a business, there would have had to of been a paper trail a mile long. You don't just hang a sign out. He would have needed money, credit, and references, possibly have to sign a lease. He would have had to file income tax, and probably get a drivers license in California, all in his own name. Did KCSO never look for him or what? Geeeeeeeeeez

JMO

I don't think this is our Nicholas. Just my opinion. I wonder who started the rumor?

[Shelby1]

Thanks for directing me to this thread N/T!


I'd sure like to know where the info about the cleaning business originated.

[Shelby1]

Another thing. It says the site is designed by Integrity Technology Service. Nicholas is so talented, wouldn't he design his own site??

[RainyNiteNTx]

Another thing. It says the site is designed by Integrity Technology Service. Nicholas is so talented, wouldn't he design his own site??

Hey Shelby
Maybe he owns that business also :glare:

[n/t]

Thanks for directing me to this thread N/T!


I'd sure like to know where the info about the cleaning business originated.

Me too.....but I think we both know the answer to that question. :rolleyes:

[Cheri_G]

Mornin' all,

MP if you have any links to the sites where it is being claimed that Nick is alive and well and running this cleaning company, that would be a great help.

I have seen posts by these B3 members before. To me they tend to be flippant and do not take any of this seriously. There has also been claims by these people before that Nick is alive and in CA and doing this or that that have never been confirmed.

My impression is that the previous claims as well as this one are just wind ups. They throw things out there and then sit back and have a laugh at the sudden flurry of activitiy it causes.

I've looked that the cleaning company website and see nothing on it that might connect it in some way to Nick. To me the site appears to be "canned commericial". A basic design layout that can be bought by anyone then tweaked to fit their company. Its unimaginative and there's nothing unique about it. It's nothing like what I would expect to see if it were indeed Nick's.

Just because somebody posts that a website, blog, account, etc. bearing the name Nicholas, Steven, or Fransico, or some variation of those names belongs to Nick doesn't make it so.

I see no substance to this newest claim at this time. Maybe Tribble Agency will have some luck in confirming it one way or another.

[Shelby1]

Mornin' all,

MP if you have any links to the sites where it is being claimed that Nick is alive and well and running this cleaning company, that would be a great help.

I have seen posts by these B3 members before. To me they tend to be flippant and do not take any of this seriously. There has also been claims by these people before that Nick is alive and in CA and doing this or that that have never been confirmed.

My impression is that the previous claims as well as this one are just wind ups. They throw things out there and then sit back and have a laugh at the sudden flurry of activitiy it causes.

I've looked that the cleaning company website and see nothing on it that might connect it in some way to Nick. To me the site appears to be "canned commericial". A basic design layout that can be bought by anyone then tweaked to fit their company. Its unimaginative and there's nothing unique about it. It's nothing like what I would expect to see if it were indeed Nick's.

Just because somebody posts that a website, blog, account, etc. bearing the name Nicholas, Steven, or Fransico, or some variation of those names belongs to Nick doesn't make it so.

I see no substance to this newest claim at this time. Maybe Tribble Agency will have some luck in confirming it one way or another.

http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=1023#comment-40546

Someone named Nicolas posted the cleaning site here.

[n/t]

Wasn't it rumoured that he was in San Diego at one point? Is that close to where this cleaning business is?

[n/t]

Sounds like someone is doing a good job at diverting the investigation AWAY from Seattle.

[Cheri_G]

http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=1023#comment-40546

Someone named Nicolas posted the cleaning site here.

Thanks Shelby.

The cleaning site doesn't say anything about their company history. Nothing about when or where they were founded or by whom.

What I did find with a little searching is that there is a Nicolas, CA near Temecula, CA in Riverside county which is one of the counties this company services.

Its quite possible the the company started and got its name there and then moved when they grew. I'd be more inclined at this point to believe that than believe that the company has anything to do with Nick.

[n/t]

Thanks Shelby.

The cleaning site doesn't say anything about their company history. Nothing about when or where they were founded or by whom.

What I did find with a little searching is that there is a Nicolas, CA near Temecula, CA in Riverside county which is one of the counties this company services.

Its quite possible the the company started and got its name there and then moved when they grew. I'd be more inclined at this point to believe that than believe that the company has anything to do with Nick.

Ahhh great sleuthing! Makes sense, Cheri

[KatieLady]

Hey everybody... CW has given us permission to discuss Nicholas and his disappearance

Several things have happened since we last were able to post about him.

Christine has married and left the state.

There has been discussion among those that knew him on b3 and now other sites that Nicholas has been found.. living in Dana Point (e)?, California and that he either works for or owns a cleaning company by the name 'Nicolas Cleans'. I was hoping some of the sleuths on here might be able to find out some information. Calls have been made to the business but they don't return them. I have NO IDEA if KCSO has been notified of this or where it originated from.

As far as I know he is still listed as missing.

I haven't had a lot of time to look into any of this or even try to verify any of it. But.. do think that it is a good starting point for starting the discussion back up.

Thanks CW for allowing us to talk about this new information. :wub:

OMG that is right were I live! :scared:

[n/t]

OMG that is right were I live! :scared:

:w00t:


What are you doing today? :w00t:

[KatieLady]

I am very concerned if this is Nicholas. Unless he had a lobotomy when he got to California, it would not make one bit of sense that he would open up a business on main street while the entire world thinks he is missing. He has been featured on America's Most Wanted, Nancy Grace, GVS, and numerous print articles have been written about him, including updates from Publicis, his former employer. Thousands and thousands of posts have been written about him on at least three message boards that I know of. This was not a low profile case.

IF this is him, I hope his family flies down there and takes him to a hospital.....I'm serious.....

Rainy...La Serena Dr. is not a main street. It is a tiny side street in a tiny beach town. I plan to drive by there today but IIRC it is not commercial....it is all homes/condos on that street.

[KatieLady]

:w00t:


What are you doing today? :w00t:

I think I see a drive in my future today :biggrin: My guess is this business is being run out of a home. I am pretty sure there are no offices on that street

[n/t]

Rainy...La Serena Dr. is not a main street. It is a tiny side street in a tiny beach town. I plan to drive by there today but IIRC it is not commercial....it is all homes/condos on that street.

Great. You can check it out for us and perhaps finally put this rumour to rest. :thumbup:

[KatieLady]

Wasn't it rumoured that he was in San Diego at one point? Is that close to where this cleaning business is?

San Diego county is 45 min south...downtown SD about an hour

[n/t]

I think I see a drive in my future today :biggrin: My guess is this business is being run out of a home. I am pretty sure there are no offices on that street

It's possible. Maybe you can hire them to do your cleaning? Just saying....:tongueside:

[Shelby1]

Great. You can check it out for us and perhaps finally put this rumour to rest. :thumbup:

OH good!!!! I can't wait to hear back :thumbup:

[Cheri_G]

Rainy...La Serena Dr. is not a main street. It is a tiny side street in a tiny beach town. I plan to drive by there today but IIRC it is not commercial....it is all homes/condos on that street.


Hi Katie,

You can find pictures of Nick here:

http://www.findnicholasfrancisco.com/ (http://www.findnicholasfrancisco.com/)


I don't think there's anything to this, but as long as your driving by it can't hurt have what Nick looks like fresh in your mind.

[n/t]

Hi Katie,

You can find pictures of Nick here:

http://www.findnicholasfrancisco.com/ (http://www.findnicholasfrancisco.com/)


I don't think there's anything to this, but as long as your driving by it can't hurt have what Nick looks like fresh in your mind.


Ohhhh...I think she knows. :sneaky:

[KatieLady]

Hi Katie,

You can find pictures of Nick here:

http://www.findnicholasfrancisco.com/ (http://www.findnicholasfrancisco.com/)


I don't think there's anything to this, but as long as your driving by it can't hurt have what Nick looks like fresh in your mind.

Thanks Cheri...I was just thinking that! I have printed it out.

[Musterion]

Thanks Shelby.

The cleaning site doesn't say anything about their company history. Nothing about when or where they were founded or by whom.

What I did find with a little searching is that there is a Nicolas, CA near Temecula, CA in Riverside county which is one of the counties this company services.

Its quite possible the the company started and got its name there and then moved when they grew. I'd be more inclined at this point to believe that than believe that the company has anything to do with Nick.

Hi Cheri!

I don't think it is him either.

But, as for the name. I found this:

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_x3tnk

The owner is Nicolas Francisco.

"Company Contacts
Contact Name Gender
Francisco Nicolas, Principal"

States 1 employee. Made $42,000 last year. Business has been around for 1 year. It doesn't say what date it started, or when this info was collected, so don't know year from what.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I think I see a drive in my future today :biggrin: My guess is this business is being run out of a home. I am pretty sure there are no offices on that street

Hi Katie!!

Bless your heart! Be very careful. Lots of prayer for you today.

It is an apartment. Here is a link to that address and map.

http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=34111%20La%20Serena%20Dr%20Apt%20B%20dana%20poin t%2C%20ca&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

IMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

Hi Cheri!

I don't think it is him either.

But, as for the name. I found this:

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_x3tnk

The owner is Nicolas Francisco.

"Company Contacts
Contact Name Gender
Francisco Nicolas, Principal"

States 1 employee. Made $42,000 last year. Business has been around for 1 year. It doesn't say what date it started, or when this info was collected, so don't know year from what.

IMO.
M.

Hi Musterion,

It does make you wonder when you first look at it, but looking the name up on Intelius, it looks like there are atleast 7 different Nicolas Francisco's who live or have lived in CA.

http://www.intelius.com/search-summary-out.php?ReportType=1&qf=nicolas&qmi=&qn=francisco&qs=CA&trackit=74&focusfirst=1

[KatieLady]

I am back.....drove by and took some pictures. It is a heavily Hispanic neighborhood of apartments and duplexes.

Does he speak Spanish? If he does...with his looks he would blend right in to the neighborhood.

http://s778.photobucket.com/albums/yy61/KatieLady_photo/

[Musterion]

Hi Musterion,

It does make you wonder when you first look at it, but looking the name up on Intelius, it looks like there are atleast 7 different Nicolas Francisco's who live or have lived in CA.

http://www.intelius.com/search-summary-out.php?ReportType=1&qf=nicolas&qmi=&qn=francisco&qs=CA&trackit=74&focusfirst=1

You're right, Cheri. It seems to be somewhat common of a name.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I am back.....drove by and took some pictures. It is a heavily Hispanic neighborhood of apartments and duplexes.

Does he speak Spanish? If he does...with his looks he would blend right in to the neighborhood.

http://s778.photobucket.com/albums/yy61/KatieLady_photo/

Thanks for the photos, Katie!

I don't know if he speaks Spanish. That is a good question.

Was there any activity around the apartments?

IMO.
M.

[KatieLady]

Thanks for the photos, Katie!

I don't know if he speaks Spanish. That is a good question.

Was there any activity around the apartments?

IMO.
M.

No...but there were 3 cars in the driveway. It is a 2 apt duplex it looked like to me.

Our poster Shelby found this

http://www.foroswebgratis.com/tema-nicolas_cleans_oc_orange_county_ca-117138-1516153.htm

says that the it has been in business since 2003 so I don't think it is him

[Musterion]

If he is alive, I don't think he'd be using his real name, maybe a relatives name.
Or his Son's name. I have not forgotten about Nick, and I am still not sure that he is alive. I hope that he is, I hope one day he has the chance to clear his name, his reputation, and his relationships with his children.

These things take time and I'm sure if he's alive, one day he will make sure that they know exactly who he is.

But my gut still screams at me that he did go home that night. And something happened. Whether he left of his own volition I am still conflicted.
I don't believe his ex wife at all, and found her behavior of asking for money online, the biggest "tragedy" of all. Actually, because I know exactly how she felt, and had been in an exact situation, I would have never asked for "donations" from people online. It smacked of true tacky behavior to me. I was embarrassed for her. Maybe Nicks family does know exactly where he is.

Because they sure are not out looking for him, still to date. This was a terrible case, because from the first interview I felt something was very wrong. Either it was her way of getting back at him (going public) and embarrassing him publicly (which I think is what happened) I still believe that she is only looking for him for one reason: to soak him for child support, not to find out if he is ok. The love, this great love, I never picked up on that in the interviews. I only saw revenge and hate but that was MY take on this case. Sometimes what goes on behind closed doors is so ugly, divorce is horrible and custody battles even worse for some.

I still think the alleged pregnancy was an attempt at keeping him in that marriage. Based on his Twits online, it was clear, this wasn't a planned parenting event. That's how I READ all the info, going back to just before he went missing. In my heart I have to believe as with other cases, that CF whatever her name is now, is being watched by LE closely. Because, as they say, NF is still "missing" and the spouse must be ruled out first in all cases. I don't believe anyone has been ruled out yet in his disappearance.

People do leave their marriages every day. And, they also leave their children. Some do it legally others abscond. Others do the best they can to save themselves, and their sanity. This is one subject that I understand fully. And some take a few years to get their head and lives back together before addressing the custody and visitation. It sure doesn't mean they don't love their children. I'm still very conflicted about this case, but there is one constant: I believe this ex spouse about as much as I believe DP in Michigan. First Impressions are everything :( I think the pregnancy was the trigger for whatever happened. That could have been a fight, a murder, the deal breaker and final straw, but for me I believe it was the trigger in this case that started the ball rolling. Sad as that sounds, based on NF's own writings with his friends, that is what I believe still today.

Bugged :rose: I hope he is found alive, because I'm sure he is a good person as all his friends described him. Running away, we don't know if that "fits" his patterns in his life. But he does cycle and he does like to run, and events such as these are places he will show up. A good PI should be able to find him, if he truly is alive.

Well, there you are! I was hoping you'd post!

It's been 18 months since Nicholas went missing. I am just having a hard time believing that he would use his own name, with a slight variation, to start a business. It makes no sense that he would stage this incredibly secret disappearance, only to broadcast his name across the internet as advertising for his cleaning business!

If it is Nicholas, then, why has LE not been given this information when the B3's were talking about it? Because Nicholas is still listed as missing.

I would think, if Christine had an inkling that it was Nicholas, he would be hauled into court quickly and had his wages garnished.

It doesn't add up, IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Hey everybody... CW has given us permission to discuss Nicholas and his disappearance

Several things have happened since we last were able to post about him.

Christine has married and left the state.

There has been discussion among those that knew him on b3 and now other sites that Nicholas has been found.. living in Dana Point (e)?, California and that he either works for or owns a cleaning company by the name 'Nicolas Cleans'. I was hoping some of the sleuths on here might be able to find out some information. Calls have been made to the business but they don't return them. I have NO IDEA if KCSO has been notified of this or where it originated from.

As far as I know he is still listed as missing.

I haven't had a lot of time to look into any of this or even try to verify any of it. But.. do think that it is a good starting point for starting the discussion back up.

Thanks CW for allowing us to talk about this new information. :wub:

Hey M.,

How long ago were the B3's saying that he'd been found in Dana Point?

IMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

I am back.....drove by and took some pictures. It is a heavily Hispanic neighborhood of apartments and duplexes.

Does he speak Spanish? If he does...with his looks he would blend right in to the neighborhood.

http://s778.photobucket.com/albums/yy61/KatieLady_photo/

Thanks for the pics Katie. I looked around for a bit to see if anyone ever mentioned if Nick speaks Spanish. I didn't find anything.

[Musterion]

I am very concerned if this is Nicholas. Unless he had a lobotomy when he got to California, it would not make one bit of sense that he would open up a business on main street while the entire world thinks he is missing. He has been featured on America's Most Wanted, Nancy Grace, GVS, and numerous print articles have been written about him, including updates from Publicis, his former employer. Thousands and thousands of posts have been written about him on at least three message boards that I know of. This was not a low profile case.

IF this is him, I hope his family flies down there and takes him to a hospital.....I'm serious.....

Hi Rainy!

LOL! A lobotomy. Or amnesia?

I hope his family sends someone to make sure it is or is not Nicholas.

It's good to post with you again! And all of our other friends who care about the missing person: Nicholas Francisco. He's the one still missing. Still the victim.

IMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

No...but there were 3 cars in the driveway. It is a 2 apt duplex it looked like to me.

Our poster Shelby found this

http://www.foroswebgratis.com/tema-nicolas_cleans_oc_orange_county_ca-117138-1516153.htm

says that the it has been in business since 2003 so I don't think it is him

Well that pretty much clinches it for me. This is a different person and any claims that it's Nick are a mistake or a windup.

[n/t]

Well that pretty much clinches it for me. This is a different person and any claims that it's Nick are a mistake or a windup.

I agree.

Thanks Katie for taking the drive and photos!! :wub:

[Musterion]

Well that pretty much clinches it for me. This is a different person and any claims that it's Nick are a mistake or a windup.

I agree.

IMO.
M.

[KatieLady]

I agree.

Thanks Katie for taking the drive and photos!! :wub:

You are welcome. It was fun being out in "the field" :lol:

[MystryPhobia]

Exactly. It could be possible but highly unlikely. And....move to a Western State?? I would think if he wanted to vanish without a trace, he'd move somewhere less obvious? Don't you think? A foreign country, perhaps? Or the East Coast? :shrug:

I think that a lot of people.. that knew him.. think that if he left on his own that he would move to California.. he talked about moving there alot.

I am not sure where this rumor started. I do know that there was talk amongst the family of this place and stuff but nobody ever said where it came from originally.

If he doesn't have any affiliation with the place.. it would seem quite easy for them to just say that. The opposite is true tho. They say nothing.. which makes it all the more strange. IMO

I think it is quite common for those that have walked away from one life to start up another doing something completely different. Anyway.. Thought maybe someone close to there would know how to find business information.. such as owner info and all that without having to bother the actual business.

[MystryPhobia]

Hey M.,

How long ago were the B3's saying that he'd been found in Dana Point?

IMO.
M.


I heard about it months ago but just chalked it up to the same old rumors we had discussed before about him being in San Diego. And.. since we have no way of seeing or talking to anyone on B3.. it kinda makes the whole thing impossible.

If that place has been in business since 03 then I highly doubt he owns the place.. doesn't mean he doesn't work for them but I don't know. Wish I knew where the info actually came from or if was all just another thing to put out there to see if it would stick.

[n/t]

You are welcome. It was fun being out in "the field" :lol:

:lol:

...

[Musterion]

I heard about it months ago but just chalked it up to the same old rumors we had discussed before about him being in San Diego. And.. since we have no way of seeing or talking to anyone on B3.. it kinda makes the whole thing impossible.

If that place has been in business since 03 then I highly doubt he owns the place.. doesn't mean he doesn't work for them but I don't know. Wish I knew where the info actually came from or if was all just another thing to put out there to see if it would stick.

I remember the San Diego rumour. And Nicholas, supposedly, on B3 posting.

M., if you heard this months ago, him being in Dana Point, I find it really odd that it wasn't followed up by LE or Christine. Especially Christine.

Now, when you say that you heard it months ago, I'm assuming it was after the San Diego rumour didn't pan out? Do you remember more specifically when you first heard? And on what site? I'm asking because I think it can help us verify who started the nicolascleans info.

:smile:

(I'm so glad you contacted CW. Thank you for getting Nicholas' forum back up and running!)

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

You are welcome. It was fun being out in "the field" :lol:

LOL!

Now, Katie, what would you have done if Nicholas Francisco, the missing, walked out of that apartment when you were taking pictures!!!

That would have been surreal and wild!!

IMO.
M.

[Starkist]

This whole scenario is just so sick and twisted. How could anyone joke about their missing friend? I am surprised no one has put Amber Dubois and Nick together since they both disappeared on the same day although 1 year apart. I would not doubt Nick knows some Spanish as many Filipino descendants do however I truly do not believe this is him. House cleaners have to be licensed and bonded...he would have been found out, absolutely, if not by name, by fingerprints. I just can't see him risking that chance if he did not want to be found.

[KatieLady]

LOL!

Now, Katie, what would you have done if Nicholas Francisco, the missing, walked out of that apartment when you were taking pictures!!!

That would have been surreal and wild!!

IMO.
M.

Hopefully I would have snapped a picture before I ran! :biggrin:

[Starkist]

I think I'd have dropped my future dentures and needed a Depend if I'd have found him there. :blushing:

[Musterion]

I think I'd have dropped my future dentures and needed a Depend if I'd have found him there. :blushing:

Future dentures! LOL!

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Hopefully I would have snapped a picture before I ran! :biggrin:

I bet you would have gotten one, too!

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Rainy...La Serena Dr. is not a main street. It is a tiny side street in a tiny beach town. I plan to drive by there today but IIRC it is not commercial....it is all homes/condos on that street.

Hey Katie - "on main street" was just a metaphor. I just cannot see so many people looking for him, so many major networks featuring his story, etc. and him just opening up shop. The paperwork would have been ridiculous. I read ahead - great job girl!

[SilverDove]

I don't believe Nicolas Cleans OC has anything to do with Nicholas Francisco. I think they are just another company that spams blogs to try to get their name out there.

Looks to me like the rumor was started with this post on http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=5689 because the company spammed their blog here: http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=1023 in the comments.

I did some searching of blogs and find it is common for this company to spam random blogs.

Why don't they return calls? My guess is they get lots of angry calls from blog owners because of spam.

[Musterion]

No...but there were 3 cars in the driveway. It is a 2 apt duplex it looked like to me.

Our poster Shelby found this

http://www.foroswebgratis.com/tema-nicolas_cleans_oc_orange_county_ca-117138-1516153.htm

says that the it has been in business since 2003 so I don't think it is him

Wanted to say GREAT FIND, to Shelby!!!

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I don't believe Nicolas Cleans OC has anything to do with Nicholas Francisco. I think they are just another company that spams blogs to try to get their name out there.

Looks to me like the rumor was started with this post on http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=5689 because the company spammed their blog here: http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=1023 in the comments.

I did some searching of blogs and find it is common for this company to spam random blogs.

Why don't they return calls? My guess is they get lots of angry calls from blog owners because of spam.

Hi SD! Good to see you and I agree that they spam like crazy.

What are your thoughts on where Nicholas might be IF he is alive?

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Hi SD! Good to see you and I agree that they spam like crazy.

What are your thoughts on where Nicholas might be IF he is alive?

IMO.
M.

Don't know but I think the key is his birth family. I still find it interesting that they don't say anything and don't answer any emails from people who support them. Just seems like they would be a touch more interested in finding him. They haven't even updated anything on the facebook account that they started. I also just don't believe that it is because they are "private people" or are scared to death of Christine.

[SeattleEddie]

According to Orange County, Nicolas Cleans is owned by First Name: Francisco Last Name: Nicolas. I would think the OC clerk wouldn't get that wrong.

https://efbn.ocgov.com/eFBNweb/Default.aspx

Another wild goose chase.

[Leanne Weich]

Hi Leanne!

Thanks for that link.

Here is an update:

"As far as we know, Nicholas Francisco is still missing, and has never been found. There are rumors that has been found at a cleaning company in California but again this is not verified and we have no way to verify. No calls have been returned."

http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=5689

IMO.
M.

Thanks M. I must say, if that is his business, I'd have thought his website would have been better.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Don't know but I think the key is his birth family. I still find it interesting that they don't say anything and don't answer any emails from people who support them. Just seems like they would be a touch more interested in finding him. They haven't even updated anything on the facebook account that they started. I also just don't believe that it is because they are "private people" or are scared to death of Christine.

I certainly may have missed some posts, but who stated that the family is "scared to death of Christine"??

[Musterion]

Don't know but I think the key is his birth family. I still find it interesting that they don't say anything and don't answer any emails from people who support them. Just seems like they would be a touch more interested in finding him. They haven't even updated anything on the facebook account that they started. I also just don't believe that it is because they are "private people" or are scared to death of Christine.

It has been an interesting case, from all angles. IMO.

Who emailed them and they didn't respond?

I think that they are very private. From the beginning it has seemed that way. IMO. We don't know, do we, that they haven't hired a PI who is working to find Nicholas? Maybe they have and are letting the PI do the work, opting to keep painful information out of the public eye about their loved one.

Also, I don't think they are scared to death of Christine. I think they may have been scared that she would alienate Nicholas' children from them. And, moving across the country with her new husband, seems like she certainly did do just that.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Thanks M. I must say, if that is his business, I'd have thought his website would have been better.

I agree, Leanne.

Nicholas' designs have a uniqueness to them. I don't know that his creativeness would let him not make a business site more artsy and appealing. At least, my dh who has his own graphic design company, would struggle to not add his own mark on anything he works on!!

And, of course, if he was trying to purposefully go the opposite way (in designing the cleaning site) so no one would know it was him behind the cleaning company, he would not have used his name, or a variation of his name. IMO.

Hoping for good (and truthful) news about Nicholas today.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

According to Orange County, Nicolas Cleans is owned by First Name: Francisco Last Name: Nicolas. I would think the OC clerk wouldn't get that wrong.

https://efbn.ocgov.com/eFBNweb/Default.aspx

Another wild goose chase.

Hi SE,

I think you are absolutely correct. On both points.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I don't believe Nicolas Cleans OC has anything to do with Nicholas Francisco. I think they are just another company that spams blogs to try to get their name out there.

Looks to me like the rumor was started with this post on http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=5689 because the company spammed their blog here: http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=1023 in the comments.

I did some searching of blogs and find it is common for this company to spam random blogs.

Why don't they return calls? My guess is they get lots of angry calls from blog owners because of spam.

Wow. You know what, SD. I'm doing some in depth research on Nicolascleans tonight.

I think I am wrong. I don't think it is spam. At least not like what I was thinking. It seems that, from what I can gather, this post to tribbleagency was deliberate and not spam.

I'll post what I find.

IMO.
M.

[Starkist]

Anyone who desperately wants this company to appear as though it is Nick himself, can spam this company's link into as many blogs as he/she desires in their vain attempt to throw off the search. Obviously their trick to make everyone believe it was actually Nick on B3 didn't work so it's on to "Plan B". I suspect he will next show up as "Jolly Old St. Nicholas" at the mall in Mission Viejo, Calif. :laugh:

[RainyNiteNTx]

http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=1023 in the comments.

On this link, there is a Scott Shaefer who commented in April 2008,,,

To assume that “bloggers just don’t care if the story won’t drive them traffic” is quite wrong, at least in my case. I publish/edit the B-Town (Burien) Blog and have numerous RSS feeds set up specifically regarding Nicholas. I check for news daily…but no news in a long timeBody found on the Duwamish recently…could that be NF? Rather than blog about that, or about his wife (IMO that’s getting too personal), speculate on his disappearance, etc. I choose to wait until there’s actual news. Sorry if that’s not the “right thing” but heck why not blog about the dozens of missing women from the Greenriver Killer then? Just my .02 cents… – scott

From his comments are we to assume that unless he gets word that Nicholas has been found dead or alive he won't report? No public interest story? No anniversary story? Thats a good way to keep Nicholas' name out there :rolleyes:

[RainyNiteNTx]

I heard about it months ago but just chalked it up to the same old rumors we had discussed before about him being in San Diego. And.. since we have no way of seeing or talking to anyone on B3.. it kinda makes the whole thing impossible.

If that place has been in business since 03 then I highly doubt he owns the place.. doesn't mean he doesn't work for them but I don't know. Wish I knew where the info actually came from or if was all just another thing to put out there to see if it would stick.

(bolded by me) Hey MP - good to see you. I highly doubt a business that was started in 2003 would rename their company after an employee that they would have had to have hired in 2008 or 2009. JMO though.

[ginky41]

Wow...glad to see a new thread set up!

I was just reading about NF a few weeks ago. At one point there was a link posted to Christine's etsy.com website and she had a note up that she was in the process of moving. I don't remember where she said she was going and I didn't save the link, but IIRC, she has a new last name.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Wow...glad to see a new thread set up!

I was just reading about NF a few weeks ago. At one point there was a link posted to Christine's etsy.com website and she had a note up that she was in the process of moving. I don't remember where she said she was going and I didn't save the link, but IIRC, she has a new last name.

Yes, she remarried a couple of months ago.

[SilverDove]

Wow. You know what, SD. I'm doing some in depth research on Nicolascleans tonight.

I think I am wrong. I don't think it is spam. At least not like what I was thinking. It seems that, from what I can gather, this post to tribbleagency was deliberate and not spam.

I'll post what I find.

IMO.
M.

Try using nicolascleans and google blogs. You'll find that this person regularly posts in the comments of blogs all over the internet.

If you want I can post a list although most blog owners delete them as spam so mostly you find them in the search.

[Starkist]

It almost looks like they spend more time spamming than they do cleaning houses! :ohmy:

[MystryPhobia]

Anyone who desperately wants this company to appear as though it is Nick himself, can spam this company's link into as many blogs as he/she desires in their vain attempt to throw off the search. Obviously their trick to make everyone believe it was actually Nick on B3 didn't work so it's on to "Plan B". I suspect he will next show up as "Jolly Old St. Nicholas" at the mall in Mission Viejo, Calif. :laugh:

Are you saying that someone spammed this into blogs to make it appear to be Nicholas?

Maybe someone should email the author at the tribble agency and see where they got that information. I think you will find that there is more to this than a spamming from a company. That the idea came from someone and not just a random thing. Not saying that this is the same Nicholas.. because I think it is more than likely he has nothing to do with this place.. but still believe the info came from somewhere and was put out there as a thought that someone ran with.

I don't really understand the whole spamming thing tho.. perhaps everyone is implying that it was spammed so that someone would pick up on it and assume it was this Nicholas..

I think I am confused.. nothing new there tho! LOL

[Musterion]

Well, would you look at that. Nicolas Cleans strikes again on Tribble Agency!

http://www.tribbleagency.com/?p=820&cpage=1#comment-40652

Nicolas Cleans.O.C on August 28th, 2009 1:57 pm
Nicolas Cleans.O.C!!
34111 La Serena Dr
Dana Point Ca 92629
http://www.nicolascleans.com/
http://www.servicescleans.com/

Hm.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Try using nicolascleans and google blogs. You'll find that this person regularly posts in the comments of blogs all over the internet.

If you want I can post a list although most blog owners delete them as spam so mostly you find them in the search.

Thank you, SD.

I did find that.

I'm not saying that they don't spam. I'm saying that it is very curious that Tribble Agency was spammed at the time that it was. And, then, after so much discussion here about them, my gosh, they spammed again today!

Coincidence?

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Are you saying that someone spammed this into blogs to make it appear to be Nicholas?

Maybe someone should email the author at the tribble agency and see where they got that information. I think you will find that there is more to this than a spamming from a company. That the idea came from someone and not just a random thing. Not saying that this is the same Nicholas.. because I think it is more than likely he has nothing to do with this place.. but still believe the info came from somewhere and was put out there as a thought that someone ran with.

I don't really understand the whole spamming thing tho.. perhaps everyone is implying that it was spammed so that someone would pick up on it and assume it was this Nicholas..

I think I am confused.. nothing new there tho! LOL

I don't think they are trying to look like Nicholas at all. They just want the name out all over the internet. I'm guessing they never even read the blog post. Don't know why they picked that blog then again I have never figured out why spammers pick the places they do.

here are some links to the "market strategy" of it all
http://ezinearticles.com/?How-to-Use-Blogs-and-Forums-to-Maximize-Your-Exposure&id=2727441

http://www.bashbosh.com/best-ways-to-get-backlinks/

Trust me even though the articles say to post something interest most don't. Person with the company might have search their own name and found that site.

I still say nothing what so ever to do with anything to do with Nicholas Francisco.

[Musterion]

Are you saying that someone spammed this into blogs to make it appear to be Nicholas?

Maybe someone should email the author at the tribble agency and see where they got that information. I think you will find that there is more to this than a spamming from a company. That the idea came from someone and not just a random thing. Not saying that this is the same Nicholas.. because I think it is more than likely he has nothing to do with this place.. but still believe the info came from somewhere and was put out there as a thought that someone ran with.

I don't really understand the whole spamming thing tho.. perhaps everyone is implying that it was spammed so that someone would pick up on it and assume it was this Nicholas..

I think I am confused.. nothing new there tho! LOL

Hi M.,

Someone, IMO, wanted that put out there.

Which leads me back to a question I asked you the other day, which I don't see a response to?

What sites, other than the B3's, did you see information about Nicholas possibly owning or working for that company?

I'd really, really, really, did I say really? LOL! Really would like to know.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Thank you, SD.

I did find that.

I'm not saying that they don't spam. I'm saying that it is very curious that Tribble Agency was spammed at the time that it was. And, then, after so much discussion here about them, my gosh, they spammed again today!

Coincidence?

IMO.
M.

No they are doing it deliberately now because they are getting the attention that the original post was about. When I had a server I could back track every hit that came from a link. How many hits to you think they have gotten from that link? Lots.

What better place to get attention then on a site where people are already interest in the name close to what you are using? Of course they will post there and I'm really surprised they aren't posting here.

[Musterion]

No they are doing it deliberately now because they are getting the attention that the original post was about. When I had a server I could back track every hit that came from a link. How many hits to you think they have gotten from that link? Lots.

What better place to get attention then on a site where people are already interest in the name close to what you are using? Of course they will post there and I'm really surprised they aren't posting here.

I'm surprised they aren't either!

We have analytics, as well, that tell every hit and where it is from.

What you are saying is very true. IMO.

I wouldn't rule out, though, of this being an intentional placement. And, I think, if Detective Holland hasn't learned of it, he should be made aware of it quickly.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

How can you tell when something is spam on a website? I've gone to google before and it will ocassionally want to know if I'm human and I have to type in a code shown on the screen.

[Starkist]

Are you saying that someone spammed this into blogs to make it appear to be Nicholas?



Snipped by me.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Someone here has an agenda.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Snipped by me.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Someone here has an agenda.

AARGH - I hate when I can't find the objects in the picture. What would be the purpose of making internet land think Nicholas is alive and well, PLUS use an unsuspecting company to do so?

[SilverDove]

AARGH - I hate when I can't find the objects in the picture. What would be the purpose of making internet land think Nicholas is alive and well, PLUS use an unsuspecting company to do so?

I still say it has nothing to do with Nicholas just Nicolas cleans spamming to get there name out there.

http://www.ricardoroman.cl/content/view/81921/Facebook_ayuda_a_articular_grupos_en_todo_el_mundo .html

Here is another example if you check the comments. Now do you really think someone spammed this blog just to make people think it is Nicholas. They are all over the internet. If they wanted people to think it was Nicholas don't you think they would have spelled it with an H?

[Cheri_G]

I still say it has nothing to do with Nicholas just Nicolas cleans spamming to get there name out there.

http://www.ricardoroman.cl/content/view/81921/Facebook_ayuda_a_articular_grupos_en_todo_el_mundo .html

Here is another example if you check the comments. Now do you really think someone spammed this blog just to make people think it is Nicholas. They are all over the internet. If they wanted people to think it was Nicholas don't you think they would have spelled it with an H?

I think you're right SD. I found others that they spammed that, like the one you linked, has absolutely nothing to do with Nick. Some were online classifieds. Some are posted to the comment sections of news articles and blogs.

I thought at first they'd purposely chosen the article about Nick on Tribble Agency figuring it would at the very least drive their hit counter up, but now I'm thinking it was just a fluke that it happened to end up on that particular article.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I still say it has nothing to do with Nicholas just Nicolas cleans spamming to get there name out there.

http://www.ricardoroman.cl/content/view/81921/Facebook_ayuda_a_articular_grupos_en_todo_el_mundo .html

Here is another example if you check the comments. Now do you really think someone spammed this blog just to make people think it is Nicholas. They are all over the internet. If they wanted people to think it was Nicholas don't you think they would have spelled it with an H?

This is from MystryPhobia's first post on this thread....

There has been discussion among those that knew him on b3 and now other sites that Nicholas has been found.. living in Dana Point (e)?, California

If you remember, SeekingTruth posted that there was a rumor NF was living in San Diego. San Diego is 65 miles from Dana Point. So my point is why are there continual rumors about NF being in CA?

[Starkist]

I still say it has nothing to do with Nicholas just Nicolas cleans spamming to get there name out there.

http://www.ricardoroman.cl/content/view/81921/Facebook_ayuda_a_articular_grupos_en_todo_el_mundo .html

Here is another example if you check the comments. Now do you really think someone spammed this blog just to make people think it is Nicholas. They are all over the internet. If they wanted people to think it was Nicholas don't you think they would have spelled it with an H?

Did you look at the dates they spammed? They didn't start until April of 2008. AFTER Nick went missing. Why would the company not spam until then when they've been in business since 2003? And what exact purpose would there be to spam blogs out of their own service area? The reason the planter didn't spell with an H is because she/he is hoping to get people to believe it's Nicholas "incognito".

[RainyNiteNTx]

Did you look at the dates they spammed? They didn't start until April of 2008. AFTER Nick went missing. Why would the company not spam until then when they've been in business since 2003? And what exact purpose would there be to spam blogs out of their own service area? The reason the planter didn't spell with an H is because she/he is hoping to get people to believe it's Nicholas "incognito".

Thank you - I've been wondering the same thing.
(highlighted and bolded by me)

[SilverDove]

Thank you - I've been wondering the same thing.
(highlighted and bolded by me)

This article has some information about back links: http://www.bashbosh.com/best-ways-to-get-backlinks/

The more places that link your web site the more popular your site appears. It then makes your site come up at the top of the search. The back links don't have to be in your own area to make this work.

The more they spam the more popular they look.

Then again who knows maybe Nicholas moved there married the woman after Christine divorce him and he is now thumbing his nose at all of us.

[RainyNiteNTx]

This article has some information about back links: http://www.bashbosh.com/best-ways-to-get-backlinks/

The more places that link your web site the more popular your site appears. It then makes your site come up at the top of the search. The back links don't have to be in your own area to make this work.

The more they spam the more popular they look.

Then again who knows maybe Nicholas moved there married the woman after Christine divorce him and he is now thumbing his nose at all of us.

what woman?

[Starkist]

Married what woman?

[SilverDove]

what woman?

Why Francisco Nicolas who owns the company. Duh

[Starkist]

Why Francisco Nicolas who owns the company. Duh

Francisco is a man, dear....Duh. :laugh:

[Starkist]

Alot of good it does the company when the only people talking about them are nowhere near their service area and most likely those same people know no one in their service area to suggest their services to. :rolleyes:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Alot of good it does the company when the only people talking about them are nowhere near their service area and most likely those same people know no one in their service area to suggest their services to. :rolleyes:

Smoke and Mirrors
Now why does the rumor of NF being in CA keep surfacing? The first rumor about this was long before this tedious discussion of spam.

[Cheri_G]

Smoke and Mirrors
Now why does the rumor of NF being in CA keep surfacing? The first rumor about this was long before this tedious discussion of spam.

Back in March of this year somebody directed us to posts on yay hooray where it was stated that Nick was alive, living in San Diego, and talking with B3 members about it on a thread he had started himself.

However, there was a post by someone else who said that was wrong. IIRC, they said there had been a thread on B3 started by Nick where he did talk about possibly moving his family to San Diego someday, but that it was BEFORE he went missing.

Then somebody else came along a little later and despite earlier clarification, stated once again that Nick was alive, in San Diego, and that people from B3 had talked to him. Even though there is ZERO evidence to support this, it seems to have stuck with people and I think that's why it keeps coming up time and again.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Great recap Cheri, but how does all of that figure into this latest rumor that Nicholas owns a cleaning company in Dana Point? In MP's first post on this thread, she says...

There has been discussion among those that knew him on b3 and now other sites that Nicholas has been found.. living in Dana Point

I believe Musterion has asked a couple of times "what other sites?" I would also like to know the answer to that question also.

[Cheri_G]

Great recap Cheri, but how does all of that figure into this latest rumor that Nicholas owns a cleaning company in Dana Point? In MP's first post on this thread, she says...

There has been discussion among those that knew him on b3 and now other sites that Nicholas has been found.. living in Dana Point

I believe Musterion has asked a couple of times "what other sites?" I would also like to know the answer to that question also.

Hi Rainy,

I'm not sure that the new claim is related to the last one. I think in the case of the Nicolas Cleans claim, somebody saw the spammed ad some place, jumped to a conclusion, and ran with it, or somebody saw it and started this rumor purposely as a wind up.

I did mention a few days ago that it would be nice if MP could provide us links to some of these sites we are being told are discussing it. I think that if we could read the posts in context between us we may be able to figure out how it all came about.

Even without them I'm still of the mind that this company is not connected to Nick and any attempts to convince us otherwise are just to stir things up.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi Rainy,

I'm not sure that the new claim is related to the last one. I think in the case of the Nicolas Cleans claim, somebody saw the spammed ad some place, jumped to a conclusion, and ran with it, or somebody saw it and started this rumor purposely as a wind up.

I did mention a few days ago that it would be nice if MP could provide us links to some of these sites we are being told are discussing it. I think that if we could read the posts in context between us we may be able to figure out how it all came about.

Even without them I'm still of the mind that this company is not connected to Nick and any attempts to convince us otherwise are just to stir things up.

I think your post says it all. If you type in the name Nicholas Francisco on Facebook for example, there are over 500 results. I guess we could just start pointing to somebody and saying he is alive and owns this company - owns that company - lives here - lives there.:confused:

If it is known that Nicholas is alive in California, then perhaps the people who started this information should contact KCSO and let them know. JMO

[Cheri_G]

I think your post says it all. If you type in the name Nicholas Francisco on Facebook for example, there are over 500 results. I guess we could just start pointing to somebody and saying he is alive and owns this company - owns that company - lives here - lives there.:confused:

If it is known that Nicholas is alive in California, then perhaps the people who started this information should contact KCSO and let them know. JMO

Mornin' Rainy,

Personally, I think the source of this latest claim is Christine. I believe she's been playing games and spreading false info from the begining.

Does anybody know if this has come up at etsy?

I'll ask again... MP, could you please point us to the sites where you found discussions of this claim?

[SeattleEddie]

suddenly, it's quiet.:rolleyes:

[Starkist]

I hear wheels turning attempting to figure out a Plan C.... :laugh:

[Starkist]

Rainy, I wonder too... why people will run to blogs and message boards to point out Nick's "whereabouts" yet won't report their findings, that they are so sure about, to LE.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Rainy, I wonder too... why people will run to blogs and message boards to point out Nick's "whereabouts" yet won't report their findings, that they are so sure about, to LE.

What I find so disturbing is that this missing person's case seems to have become fun and entertainment for some. I've followed missing persons' cases for years and I have never seen anything like it. Somewhere in all of this, Nicholas Francisco, the victim, the missing, has been lost. As recent as this thread, he continues to be the butt of jokes to some. :thumbdown:

JMO

[Cheri_G]

What I find so disturbing is that this missing person's case seems to have become fun and entertainment for some. I've followed missing persons' cases for years and I have never seen anything like it. Somewhere in all of this, Nicholas Francisco, the victim, the missing, has been lost. As recent as this thread, he continues to be the butt of jokes to some. :thumbdown:

JMO

It is sad and what's worse is they probaby aren't done yet. Like Starkist said, wheels are probably turning in an effort to come up with a new plan to misdirect people.

[RainyNiteNTx]

It is sad and what's worse is they probaby aren't done yet. Like Starkist said, wheels are probably turning in an effort to come up with a new plan to misdirect people.

What would be the advantage to misdirecting people? Do some really not want Nicholas found??

[Cheri_G]

What would be the advantage to misdirecting people? Do some really not want Nicholas found??

I don't know Rainy, but there have been some who seem to find it important that people believe Nick is not a victim but a jerk who ran out on his family and is living it up someplace else.

As far as I'm concerned, until we know different Nick is missing for unknown reasons and remains a victim.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I don't know Rainy, but there have been some who seem to find it important that people believe Nick is not a victim but a jerk who ran out on his family and is living it up someplace else.

As far as I'm concerned, until we know different Nick is missing for unknown reasons and remains a victim.


Missing under suspicious circumstances....

[Starkist]

It certainly appears to be a giant cover up for some sort of misdeed.

[Musterion]

What would be the advantage to misdirecting people? Do some really not want Nicholas found??

Hi Rainy!

Good question.

I think it is about diverting attention to make sure that people remember that Nicholas left a pregnant wife and two small children with no income. Callously abandoning them.

Why? My thoughts are that whenever there seems to be an event, like divorcing a missing spouse, meeting someone and committing to a marriage well before the year mark of the first anniversary of a missing person, remarrying within fourteen months of the spouse going missing, moving across the country, there is an output of activity to draw sympathy toward the missing spouse's ex.

It seems, IMO, that it might be to stop people from empathy for Nicholas, which does stop the search for him.

It, also, seems that maybe that does say someone does not want Nicholas, or his body found.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi Rainy!

Good question.

I think it is about diverting attention to make sure that people remember that Nicholas left a pregnant wife and two small children with no income. Callously abandoning them.

Why? My thoughts are that whenever there seems to be an event, like divorcing a missing spouse, meeting someone and committing to a marriage well before the year mark of the first anniversary of a missing person, remarrying within fourteen months of the spouse going missing, moving across the country, there is an output of activity to draw sympathy toward the missing spouse's ex.

It seems, IMO, that it might be to stop people from empathy for Nicholas, which does stop the search for him.
It, also, seems that maybe that does say someone does not want Nicholas, or his body found.

IMO.
M.

(bold and highlight by me)
Very very good point. We have seen that happen not only with posters, but with organizations dedicated to the missing.

[RainyNiteNTx]

(respectfully snipped) (bolded by me)

If any of you get time, read them. No one, not one person has ever written anything about Nicholas that was this kind. Even though he matched Paige in zest for life, humour, kindness, being there for his children, as well as his dedication in providing for Christine and their children, taking on more than one job, and his service to his church volunteering to do their on line bulletin, no one blogged or wrote, publicly, with this much love for who Nicholas was.
http://helpfindthemissing.org/blog/?p=29

http://helpfindthemissing.org/blog/?p=17

http://helpfindthemissing.org/blog/?cat=28

Washington State Missing Persons, as of 1 September 2009:

http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php?wac=08M0002895

Nicholas Francisco is the missing person. He deserves, no matter what his secret life was, the dignity that every missing person deserves, and that is respect as a human being. He deserves the resources to be found. He deserves the help that is said to be for the missing. Just like Paige does.

IMO.
M.

This just makes me sad. You are right - no one has ever done that for Nicholas. It seems they all believed the worst about him and went on with their respective lives. It would seem that ONE person - one caring Christian person from church, or ONE long time friend, or ONE work associate from Publicis would have tried to remind the public of who he was, and that he deserved to be found. NOBODY stepped up to the plate, but rather chose to snicker and gloat that a secret life had been found. I would like to think I have friends like Paige had, and not like Nicholas had, but I bet Nicholas would have thought the same thing. JMO

[Starkist]

This just makes me sad. You are right - no one has ever done that for Nicholas. It seems they all believed the worst about him and went on with their respective lives. It would seem that ONE person - one caring Christian person from church, or ONE long time friend, or ONE work associate from Publicis would have tried to remind the public of who he was, and that he deserved to be found. NOBODY stepped up to the plate, but rather chose to snicker and gloat that a secret life had been found. I would like to think I have friends like Paige had, and not like Nicholas had, but I bet Nicholas would have thought the same thing. JMO

This is what I don't understand at all. I also don't understand why his "friends" get angry when we question their loyalty to him. If they had been truly friends, they'd be standing up for him, catching his fall and watching his back. With friends like these, no wonder he won't come forward. :crying:

[Musterion]

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=350114

03-08-2009, 06:03 AM
RainyNiteNTx
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingTruth
"Actually it's been referenced on another website that he has been spoken to and that some know he lives in San Diego. However I'm not sure if i'm allowed to post that link on here or not."

Is it a blog or a website? I've looked at three sleuthing websites and there is no mention.
__________________

03-09-2009, 12:26 AM
Musterion
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,257
I am referencing these two Posts, 671 & 679 on the closed thread from:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/sh...334688&page=17

"SeekingTruth,

Could you clarify something?

You said that someone on another website knows that Nicholas is alive and has spoken to him. And that he is living in San Diego.

You then say that you have given this information to LE.

Are you saying that LE did not unearth this information? That it came from you to LE via you finding some people, at random, on a website that claim to know the missing Nicholas Francisco from Seattle?

I find this incredible detective work on your part if that is what you are saying.

Do you mind clarifying? Maybe I have misread.

M."
________________________

03-10-2009, 01:18 PM
Musterion
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,257
Quote:
"Originally Posted by cteall
I am not sure if I am allowed to post this or not, but I know many people are interested in where the San Diego thing supposedly came from. This is a message board that I have never heard of that Nick was apparently a member of. ST gave me the link in a PM and referenced page 8. It was definitely a thread about Nicholas, but I couldn't find anything to indicate he was in San Diego, maybe someone else can.

http://www.yayhooray.com/thread/1397...missing?page=8"

Hi cteall,

It came from ST huh?

It isn't Nicholas. At least it wasn't Nicholas at the beginning of the case when someone was logging on and deleting his posts there.

Remember this:

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/fo...d.php?p=179320
Post 111
"
Nicholas' sites being logged in to ....as they are found, yes they are being logged in to by someone other than Nicholas. Not all have been logged in to, but some have had access figured out. That's so hopefully some information can be found to help in locating him. Christine is not deleting information from the sites. http://www.virb.com/francisco http://francisco.yayhooray.com/ These sites have been known about for quite a while now. Along with a few others."

And Post 127 on page 13 Pauli says that as far as who is logging into that site, all she could say was that it was NOT Nicholas.

Unless Harlett was dead wrong or was told wrong information by Christine or LE then I would say that it is still not Nicholas. And, whoever is posting on here that it is has some agenda for some reason. IMO.

Nicholas IS still listed on the Washington State Missing Person's site:

http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php

This is just IMO.
M.
__________________

03-11-2009, 06:14 PM
SeekingTruth
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 56
here is the link i was referring to earlier. the site is now working again.

http://www.yayhooray.com/thread/1397...missing?page=9
__________________
__________________

Bolding Mine.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

This is what I don't understand at all. I also don't understand why his "friends" get angry when we question their loyalty to him. If they had been truly friends, they'd be standing up for him, catching his fall and watching his back. With friends like these, no wonder he won't come forward. :crying:

It's true. When was the last time anyone heard of a friend of Nicholas' saying that they were still looking for him?

Matt Donovan, Nicholas' best friend in high school and close buddy, who had just been visiting with Nicholas and family something like a week or so before Nicholas disappeared, pulled a disappearing act himself, quite soon, after he appealed to the public on tv.

Where did he go? Why no more appeals, publicly, to help find his friend, no matter what lifestyle he had been living?

What is going on?

IMO.
M.

[Starkist]

Someone is still accessing Nick's Yayhooray:

Francisco last logged in on June 11 2009 at 4:33pm.

http://francisco.yayhooray.com/

[Musterion]

Someone is still accessing Nick's Yayhooray:

Francisco last logged in on June 11 2009 at 4:33pm.

http://francisco.yayhooray.com/

That is really creepy. Wonder if LE knows?

IMO.
M.

[SeattleEddie]

also this:
http://www.yayhooray.com/thread/183296/is-francisco-alive

[SeattleEddie]

some recent updates on this thread I hadn't seen in a while either.
Same old, same old.....

http://mydeathspace.com/smf/index.php?topic=13514.0

please forgive if these have been posted before, I hadn't seen them.

All the "news" seems to come from a single source.

[Starkist]

some recent updates on this thread I hadn't seen in a while either.
Same old, same old.....

http://mydeathspace.com/smf/index.php?topic=13514.0

please forgive if these have been posted before, I hadn't seen them.

All the "news" seems to come from a single source.

Bolded by me.

With the greatest common demoninator being "his wife/ex-wife".

[Starkist]

OOPS! I meant "denominator"...must have been a Freudian slip...:laugh:

[RainyNiteNTx]

That is really creepy. Wonder if LE knows?

IMO.
M.

Wow - maybe we should contact them and let them know. Of course it is not like they are looking for NIcholas or concerned about him...but still...

[RainyNiteNTx]

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=350114

03-08-2009, 06:03 AM
RainyNiteNTx
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,614
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingTruth
"Actually it's been referenced on another website that he has been spoken to and that some know he lives in San Diego. However I'm not sure if i'm allowed to post that link on here or not."

Is it a blog or a website? I've looked at three sleuthing websites and there is no mention.
__________________

03-09-2009, 12:26 AM
Musterion
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,257
I am referencing these two Posts, 671 & 679 on the closed thread from:

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/sh...334688&page=17

"SeekingTruth,

Could you clarify something?

You said that someone on another website knows that Nicholas is alive and has spoken to him. And that he is living in San Diego.

You then say that you have given this information to LE.

Are you saying that LE did not unearth this information? That it came from you to LE via you finding some people, at random, on a website that claim to know the missing Nicholas Francisco from Seattle?

I find this incredible detective work on your part if that is what you are saying.

Do you mind clarifying? Maybe I have misread.

M."
________________________

03-10-2009, 01:18 PM
Musterion
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,257
Quote:
"Originally Posted by cteall
I am not sure if I am allowed to post this or not, but I know many people are interested in where the San Diego thing supposedly came from. This is a message board that I have never heard of that Nick was apparently a member of. ST gave me the link in a PM and referenced page 8. It was definitely a thread about Nicholas, but I couldn't find anything to indicate he was in San Diego, maybe someone else can.

http://www.yayhooray.com/thread/1397...missing?page=8"

Hi cteall,

It came from ST huh?

It isn't Nicholas. At least it wasn't Nicholas at the beginning of the case when someone was logging on and deleting his posts there.

Remember this:

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/fo...d.php?p=179320
Post 111
"
Nicholas' sites being logged in to ....as they are found, yes they are being logged in to by someone other than Nicholas. Not all have been logged in to, but some have had access figured out. That's so hopefully some information can be found to help in locating him. Christine is not deleting information from the sites. http://www.virb.com/francisco http://francisco.yayhooray.com/ These sites have been known about for quite a while now. Along with a few others."

And Post 127 on page 13 Pauli says that as far as who is logging into that site, all she could say was that it was NOT Nicholas.

Unless Harlett was dead wrong or was told wrong information by Christine or LE then I would say that it is still not Nicholas. And, whoever is posting on here that it is has some agenda for some reason. IMO.

Nicholas IS still listed on the Washington State Missing Person's site:

http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php

This is just IMO.
M.
__________________

03-11-2009, 06:14 PM
SeekingTruth Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 56
here is the link i was referring to earlier. the site is now working again.

http://www.yayhooray.com/thread/1397...missing?page=9
__________________
__________________

Bolding Mine.

IMO.
M.

why why why
(highlighted by me)

[Shelby1]

Washington State Missing Persons, as of 1 September 2009:

http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php?wac=08M0002895

Nicholas Francisco is the missing person. He deserves, no matter what his secret life was, the dignity that every missing person deserves, and that is respect as a human being. He deserves the resources to be found. He deserves the help that is said to be for the missing. Just like Paige does.

IMO.
M.[/QUOTE]


Respectfully snipped......


It's damn sad that no one from the King County Sheriff's Office could scrape up a picture of Nicholas to post. :mad:

[Musterion]

some recent updates on this thread I hadn't seen in a while either.
Same old, same old.....

http://mydeathspace.com/smf/index.php?topic=13514.0

please forgive if these have been posted before, I hadn't seen them.

All the "news" seems to come from a single source.

Hi SE,

Thank you for those two links.

The news does not seem to ever be confirmed by LE!

This is what is maddening! Christine can go ahead and post all over the internet, er, I mean tell people she doesn't want information out but they have so much anger and sympathy that Nicholas left her pregnant and penniless and with two small children (and she seems to know that certain people will act on their emotions and she can safely say that they betrayed that confidence, that is master manipulation from any psychological viewpoint, IMO), that they post what she has confided to them. She can have this information out and yayhooray and b3 can be talking about it (and notice the anger people have toward Nicholas!) with absolutely NO confirmation by LE. AND Nicholas is still listed as missing.

These people are saying that Nicholas was talked to. Really? And these people did not contact LE? That's odd.

I cannot believe that these people have talked to or seen Nicholas and Christine knows that is a fact and there is no enforcement for child support. There is no word from LE or confirmation from LE that he has been found! Actually, the opposite is true! No one that I have emailed is saying that Nicholas has been found, not in LE, not in the media.

Now, why is that?

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

OOPS! I meant "denominator"...must have been a Freudian slip...:laugh:

LOL! Starkist, just when I am getting to the height of frustration over this case, there you go, making me laugh!

I think I'm going to find cinder and ask some questions. Oh, but wait, he/she said (conveniently!): "This is somewhat of a parting post.
I may post follow up replies in this thread but I will be closing this thread in the relatively near future."

If anyone can help me track down who cinder really is that may answer some questions we all might have.

Also, remember when we start searching a lot of things get deleted. So, remember to take screen shots or save the information in some form.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Washington State Missing Persons, as of 1 September 2009:

http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php?wac=08M0002895

Nicholas Francisco is the missing person. He deserves, no matter what his secret life was, the dignity that every missing person deserves, and that is respect as a human being. He deserves the resources to be found. He deserves the help that is said to be for the missing. Just like Paige does.

IMO.
M.


Respectfully snipped......


It's damn sad that no one from the King County Sheriff's Office could scrape up a picture of Nicholas to post. :mad:[/QUOTE]

Don't get me started, Shelby!! LOL!

So good to see you!

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nicolebrodeur/2004440078_brodeur27m.html (old article but interesting to read it over a year later)

If he is found alive, deputies will inform his wife of only that — not where he is.

"It's not up to the police to tell others of a found person's whereabouts," Urquhart said.

From the article above, if LE had found Nicholas, they would not have told anyone where he was. So I think we can stop with the San Diego/Dana Point stories.

Interesting also is the attitude from LE. They admit they have never seen anything like this - I would have thought they experienced something similar with the Tanya Ryder case.

[elf999]

Washington State Missing Persons, as of 1 September 2009:

http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php?wac=08M0002895

Nicholas Francisco is the missing person. He deserves, no matter what his secret life was, the dignity that every missing person deserves, and that is respect as a human being. He deserves the resources to be found. He deserves the help that is said to be for the missing. Just like Paige does.

IMO.
M.


Respectfully snipped......


It's damn sad that no one from the King County Sheriff's Office could scrape up a picture of Nicholas to post. :mad:[/QUOTE]

From reading that site it looks like someone has to request a photo before one appears on there. I think someone needs to call the agency and ask them to attach a photo "via WebMSS", then after they do that, it will appear automatically.

Has somebody called the agency? If not, I'm assuming one of the people that discovered it will make the call, thanks.

Many Blessings

[Cury-us Coyote]

Respectfully snipped......


It's damn sad that no one from the King County Sheriff's Office could scrape up a picture of Nicholas to post. :mad:

From reading that site it looks like someone has to request a photo before one appears on there. I think someone needs to call the agency and ask them to attach a photo "via WebMSS", then after they do that, it will appear automatically.

Has somebody called the agency? If not, I'm assuming one of the people that discovered it will make the call, thanks.

Many Blessings[/QUOTE]

Have you located any missing person on the WASPC with a photograph?
http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php

[elf999]

From reading that site it looks like someone has to request a photo before one appears on there. I think someone needs to call the agency and ask them to attach a photo "via WebMSS", then after they do that, it will appear automatically.

Has somebody called the agency? If not, I'm assuming one of the people that discovered it will make the call, thanks.

Many Blessings

Have you located any missing person on the WASPC with a photograph?
http://www.waspc.org/mp/missing.php[/QUOTE]

My post was responding to Shelby's post where she said:
"It's damn sad that no one from the King County Sheriff's Office could scrape up a picture of Nicholas to post."

I don't know much about the site or how it works, just pointing out if someone wanted a picture put up they could have it done, just call.

Many Blessings

[Musterion]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nicolebrodeur/2004440078_brodeur27m.html (old article but interesting to read it over a year later)

If he is found alive, deputies will inform his wife of only that — not where he is.

"It's not up to the police to tell others of a found person's whereabouts," Urquhart said.

From the article above, if LE had found Nicholas, they would not have told anyone where he was. So I think we can stop with the San Diego/Dana Point stories.

Interesting also is the attitude from LE. They admit they have never seen anything like this - I would have thought they experienced something similar with the Tanya Ryder case.

Yeah. And they had Lynn Stafford a suicide, via her husband. Closed the case. :crying: But, that's a whole 'nother story.

Good point, Rainy.

But, she isn't his wife anymore. So, maybe they are under no obligation to tell her now?

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Respectfully snipped......


It's damn sad that no one from the King County Sheriff's Office could scrape up a picture of Nicholas to post. :mad:

From reading that site it looks like someone has to request a photo before one appears on there. I think someone needs to call the agency and ask them to attach a photo "via WebMSS", then after they do that, it will appear automatically.

Has somebody called the agency? If not, I'm assuming one of the people that discovered it will make the call, thanks.

Many Blessings[/QUOTE]

Hi elf!

Hope all is well in New York!

IIRC, there were many here and on other sites asking Christine to submit a picture, early, early on. Like the day he was listed on WASPC.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Bolding Mine.

Maybe this says it all for those who wonder if Nicholas disappeared on his own.

Missing Persons


"Missing person cases are uniquely complicated. First, detectives must determine if a person is missing against their will. Another complication is that there is frequently a lack of evidence that points to a specific suspect. The Major Crimes Unit analyzes all missing persons and runaway reports. If the reviewer suspects foul play, the case is immediately assigned to a Major Crimes detective.

Cases are sorted by decade (on the tabs to the left).

Based on factors determined during these investigations, we suspect that foul play may be involved in their disappearances. If you have information on these or any other missing person cases that the Sheriff's Office is investigating, please contact our Major Crimes Unit at (206) 296-7530. You may also email us at MCUTips.KCSO@kingcounty.gov."

http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Contact/TIPS/Missing.aspx

***Press the 2000-To Present Tab and, guess what, this is the ONLY Cold Case they have listed:, IMO. M.

""Missing Person 2000 - present"


Please contact the listed detectives if you have any information regarding these cases:

Name: Nicholas Francisco

Age: 28

Height/Weight: 6'00", 160 lbs

Hair/Eye Color: Black/Brown

Mr. Francisco was last seen leaving his place of employment in the city of Seattle, on 02/13/08 at approx. 1800 hours. He was believed to be in route to the Tukwila Costco & then home to his residence in the city of SeaTac. The investigation showed that he made no purchases at the Costco the day he disappeared. His car was found weeks later in the city of Federal Way in South King County.

Anyone with information on his whereabouts or disappearance is asked to call detectives. KCSO Case # 08-037211

King County Major Crimes, Cold Case Squad 206-296-7530"

Anyone who believes Nicholas is thought to have left on his own and believe that LE believes that, I would love to hear what you have to say after reading this.

IMO.
M.

[SeattleEddie]

Bolding Mine.

Maybe this says it all for those who wonder if Nicholas disappeared on his own.

Missing Persons


"Missing person cases are uniquely complicated. First, detectives must determine if a person is missing against their will. Another complication is that there is frequently a lack of evidence that points to a specific suspect. The Major Crimes Unit analyzes all missing persons and runaway reports. If the reviewer suspects foul play, the case is immediately assigned to a Major Crimes detective.

Cases are sorted by decade (on the tabs to the left).

Based on factors determined during these investigations, we suspect that foul play may be involved in their disappearances. If you have information on these or any other missing person cases that the Sheriff's Office is investigating, please contact our Major Crimes Unit at (206) 296-7530. You may also email us at MCUTips.KCSO@kingcounty.gov."

http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Contact/TIPS/Missing.aspx

***Press the 2000-To Present Tab and, guess what, this is the ONLY Cold Case they have listed:, IMO. M.

""Missing Person 2000 - present"


Please contact the listed detectives if you have any information regarding these cases:

Name: Nicholas Francisco

Age: 28

Height/Weight: 6'00", 160 lbs

Hair/Eye Color: Black/Brown

Mr. Francisco was last seen leaving his place of employment in the city of Seattle, on 02/13/08 at approx. 1800 hours. He was believed to be in route to the Tukwila Costco & then home to his residence in the city of SeaTac. The investigation showed that he made no purchases at the Costco the day he disappeared. His car was found weeks later in the city of Federal Way in South King County.

Anyone with information on his whereabouts or disappearance is asked to call detectives. KCSO Case # 08-037211

King County Major Crimes, Cold Case Squad 206-296-7530"

Anyone who believes Nicholas is thought to have left on his own and believe that LE believes that, I would love to hear what you have to say after reading this.

IMO.
M.

Wow. This is very interesting, Musterion.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Yeah. And they had Lynn Stafford a suicide, via her husband. Closed the case. :crying: But, that's a whole 'nother story.

Good point, Rainy.

But, she isn't his wife anymore. So, maybe they are under no obligation to tell her now?

IMO.
M.

I wouldn't think LE would be under any obligation whatsover in light of the changes she has made since Nicholas went missing.

[RainyNiteNTx]

From reading that site it looks like someone has to request a photo before one appears on there. I think someone needs to call the agency and ask them to attach a photo "via WebMSS", then after they do that, it will appear automatically.

Has somebody called the agency? If not, I'm assuming one of the people that discovered it will make the call, thanks.

Many Blessings

Hi elf!

Hope all is well in New York!

IIRC, there were many here and on other sites asking Christine to submit a picture, early, early on. Like the day he was listed on WASPC.

IMO.
M.[/QUOTE]

This does not surprise me - think back to his missing flyer. It talked about leaving toast in the toaster - cavities - wearing his laptop like a wedding ring. Seriously that was a joke. Who is going to converse with someone and think "gosh this looks like Nicholas Francisco but I would need to look in his mouth for cavities to be sure". That sounded more like something you would need for an autopsy report....YIKES

[RainyNiteNTx]

Bolding Mine.

Maybe this says it all for those who wonder if Nicholas disappeared on his own.

Missing Persons


"Missing person cases are uniquely complicated. First, detectives must determine if a person is missing against their will. Another complication is that there is frequently a lack of evidence that points to a specific suspect. The Major Crimes Unit analyzes all missing persons and runaway reports. If the reviewer suspects foul play, the case is immediately assigned to a Major Crimes detective.

Cases are sorted by decade (on the tabs to the left).

Based on factors determined during these investigations, we suspect that foul play may be involved in their disappearances. If you have information on these or any other missing person cases that the Sheriff's Office is investigating, please contact our Major Crimes Unit at (206) 296-7530. You may also email us at MCUTips.KCSO@kingcounty.gov."

http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Contact/TIPS/Missing.aspx

***Press the 2000-To Present Tab and, guess what, this is the ONLY Cold Case they have listed:, IMO. M.

""Missing Person 2000 - present"


Please contact the listed detectives if you have any information regarding these cases:

Name: Nicholas Francisco

Age: 28

Height/Weight: 6'00", 160 lbs

Hair/Eye Color: Black/Brown

Mr. Francisco was last seen leaving his place of employment in the city of Seattle, on 02/13/08 at approx. 1800 hours. He was believed to be in route to the Tukwila Costco & then home to his residence in the city of SeaTac. The investigation showed that he made no purchases at the Costco the day he disappeared. His car was found weeks later in the city of Federal Way in South King County.

Anyone with information on his whereabouts or disappearance is asked to call detectives. KCSO Case # 08-037211

King County Major Crimes, Cold Case Squad 206-296-7530"

Anyone who believes Nicholas is thought to have left on his own and believe that LE believes that, I would love to hear what you have to say after reading this.

IMO.
M.

WOW Musterion! I would love to hear what they have to say also, but I'm betting no one will comment on this.

[Starkist]

Bolding Mine.

Maybe this says it all for those who wonder if Nicholas disappeared on his own.

Missing Persons


"Missing person cases are uniquely complicated. First, detectives must determine if a person is missing against their will. Another complication is that there is frequently a lack of evidence that points to a specific suspect. The Major Crimes Unit analyzes all missing persons and runaway reports. If the reviewer suspects foul play, the case is immediately assigned to a Major Crimes detective.

Cases are sorted by decade (on the tabs to the left).

Based on factors determined during these investigations, we suspect that foul play may be involved in their disappearances. If you have information on these or any other missing person cases that the Sheriff's Office is investigating, please contact our Major Crimes Unit at (206) 296-7530. You may also email us at MCUTips.KCSO@kingcounty.gov."

http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Contact/TIPS/Missing.aspx

***Press the 2000-To Present Tab and, guess what, this is the ONLY Cold Case they have listed:, IMO. M.

""Missing Person 2000 - present"


Please contact the listed detectives if you have any information regarding these cases:

Name: Nicholas Francisco

Age: 28

Height/Weight: 6'00", 160 lbs

Hair/Eye Color: Black/Brown

Mr. Francisco was last seen leaving his place of employment in the city of Seattle, on 02/13/08 at approx. 1800 hours. He was believed to be in route to the Tukwila Costco & then home to his residence in the city of SeaTac. The investigation showed that he made no purchases at the Costco the day he disappeared. His car was found weeks later in the city of Federal Way in South King County.
Anyone with information on his whereabouts or disappearance is asked to call detectives. KCSO Case # 08-037211

King County Major Crimes, Cold Case Squad 206-296-7530"

Anyone who believes Nicholas is thought to have left on his own and believe that LE believes that, I would love to hear what you have to say after reading this.

IMO.
M.

That says his car was found "weeks" later...Ummmm it was only 4 days IIRC...

[elf999]

Bolding Mine.

Maybe this says it all for those who wonder if Nicholas disappeared on his own.

Missing Persons


"Missing person cases are uniquely complicated. First, detectives must determine if a person is missing against their will. Another complication is that there is frequently a lack of evidence that points to a specific suspect. The Major Crimes Unit analyzes all missing persons and runaway reports. If the reviewer suspects foul play, the case is immediately assigned to a Major Crimes detective.

Cases are sorted by decade (on the tabs to the left).

Based on factors determined during these investigations, we suspect that foul play may be involved in their disappearances. If you have information on these or any other missing person cases that the Sheriff's Office is investigating, please contact our Major Crimes Unit at (206) 296-7530. You may also email us at MCUTips.KCSO@kingcounty.gov."

http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Contact/TIPS/Missing.aspx

***Press the 2000-To Present Tab and, guess what, this is the ONLY Cold Case they have listed:, IMO. M.

""Missing Person 2000 - present"


Please contact the listed detectives if you have any information regarding these cases:

Name: Nicholas Francisco

Age: 28

Height/Weight: 6'00", 160 lbs

Hair/Eye Color: Black/Brown

Mr. Francisco was last seen leaving his place of employment in the city of Seattle, on 02/13/08 at approx. 1800 hours. He was believed to be in route to the Tukwila Costco & then home to his residence in the city of SeaTac. The investigation showed that he made no purchases at the Costco the day he disappeared. His car was found weeks later in the city of Federal Way in South King County.

Anyone with information on his whereabouts or disappearance is asked to call detectives. KCSO Case # 08-037211

King County Major Crimes, Cold Case Squad 206-296-7530"

Anyone who believes Nicholas is thought to have left on his own and believe that LE believes that, I would love to hear what you have to say after reading this.

IMO.
M.

Hi Musterion,

LE has said all along that they don't know whether foul play is involved in Nicholas's disappearance. This seems consistent with the statement on the Sheriff's Department website that they "suspect that foul play may be involved" in the cases listed there.

It doesn't say on that website that foul play is definitely involved in those cases.

I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like anything new to me.

Many Blessings

[Musterion]

Hi Musterion,

LE has said all along that they don't know whether foul play is involved in Nicholas's disappearance. This seems consistent with the statement on the Sheriff's Department website that they "suspect that foul play may be involved" in the cases listed there.

It doesn't say on that website that foul play is definitely involved in those cases.

I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like anything new to me.

Many Blessings

Hey elf,

Thank you for stepping in and giving your insight. We don't always see things the same and I want you to know that I respect your opinion, although, of course, I don't agree that it isn't anything new.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I found this interesting on the Cold Case Squad site, as well.

With everything that has been claimed about Nicholas. All of the rumours. All of his 'alternate' life, the abuse claims by Christine, LE doesn't speak about his 'secret life' or 'high risk' lifestyle.

Yet, here:

http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Contact/TIPS/Missing/1980s.aspx

Ralph Newcombe disappeared in 1989.

Here is what they say:

"Since 1989 there have been indications that he may have been in the Montana and Wyoming. Ralph may have changed his name and assumed a different identity."

Why, if Nicholas has talked to someone on the B3 site, or YayHooray, or any of the other sites that claimed to have talked to him, did LE not write something like they did about Ralph Newcombe? Indications that Nicholas is alive?

Why didn't LE say that there were indications that Nicholas may have been in San Diego or Dana Pointe, CA? Why didn't they just go ahead and give a little more info, like they did with Ralph?

To address elf999, it would seem that LE is saying that there is a chance that Ralph Newcombe left on his own. Why don't they say that about Nicholas, on this Cold Case site?

IMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

The site was last updated May this year. No mention a secret life or deviant sexual behaviour including meeting up with strangers he met at online sex sites (which could be considered "high risk" behaviour).

Seems to me if LE had found evidence of any of those things they would have noted it as they did on some of the others they have listed.


BTW, great find, Musterion :thumbup:

[Musterion]

The site was last updated May this year. No mention a secret life or deviant sexual behaviour including meeting up with strangers he met at online sex sites (which could be considered "high risk" behaviour).

Seems to me if LE had found evidence of any of those things they would have noted it as they did on some of the others they have listed.


BTW, great find, Musterion :thumbup:

Those were my thoughts, too, Cheri. No reason to NOT put that out there. Nothing to lose for LE, only leads to gain.

Thanks, Cheri. I am praying Nicholas is found very soon. So his children can know the truth. I know you are, as well.

IMO.
M.

[elf999]

I found this interesting on the Cold Case Squad site, as well.

With everything that has been claimed about Nicholas. All of the rumours. All of his 'alternate' life, the abuse claims by Christine, LE doesn't speak about his 'secret life' or 'high risk' lifestyle.

Yet, here:

http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Contact/TIPS/Missing/1980s.aspx

Ralph Newcombe disappeared in 1989.

Here is what they say:

"Since 1989 there have been indications that he may have been in the Montana and Wyoming. Ralph may have changed his name and assumed a different identity."

Why, if Nicholas has talked to someone on the B3 site, or YayHooray, or any of the other sites that claimed to have talked to him, did LE not write something like they did about Ralph Newcombe? Indications that Nicholas is alive?

Why didn't LE say that there were indications that Nicholas may have been in San Diego or Dana Pointe, CA? Why didn't they just go ahead and give a little more info, like they did with Ralph?

To address elf999, it would seem that LE is saying that there is a chance that Ralph Newcombe left on his own. Why don't they say that about Nicholas, on this Cold Case site?

IMO.
M.

I recall that LE has always said that they just don't know what happened to Nicholas. I don't think they've ever had any good leads to where he might have gone, if he took off. I don't believe the Dana Point lead is valid, and I've never heard anything much that convinces me that he is in San Diego, either.

I think that they had something more substantial for the man that you referenced in your post, which is why they mentioned it.

Many Blessings

[Musterion]

This article only lists missing persons in Washington State up to 2002.

http://www.seattlepi.com/dayart/20030217/missing0217.pdf

However, it would be interesting to know how many have been solved of those listed as missing from 2000-2002.

And, find stats from 2002-2009.

Because, out of all that are listed in this article:

61 missing in 2000
146 missing in 2001
1394 missing in 2002 (wow, what a huge jump in missing persons, btw)

Not including 2003 to present, the ONLY Cold Case LE puts on their site for 2000 to present is Nicholas Francisco.

Interesting.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I recall that LE has always said that they just don't know what happened to Nicholas. I don't think they've ever had any good leads to where he might have gone, if he took off. I don't believe the Dana Point lead is valid, and I've never heard anything much that convinces me that he is in San Diego, either.

I think that they had something more substantial for the man that you referenced in your post, which is why they mentioned it.

Many Blessings

Hi elf,

How do you know they had something more substantial?

IMO.
M.

[elf999]

The site was last updated May this year. No mention a secret life or deviant sexual behaviour including meeting up with strangers he met at online sex sites (which could be considered "high risk" behaviour).

Seems to me if LE had found evidence of any of those things they would have noted it as they did on some of the others they have listed.


BTW, great find, Musterion :thumbup:

I don't believe they could/would mention the details of Nicholas's personal life unless they are pertinent to or there was something that specifically involved his disappearance.

[elf999]

Hi elf,

How do you know they had something more substantial?

IMO.
M.

I think it would be just a matter of policy not to mention something on the website unless there is reason to think it might be true. Inotherwords, there is more information than just rumors.

[Musterion]

I don't believe they could/would mention the details of Nicholas's personal life unless they are pertinent to or there was something that specifically involved his disappearance.

I think it would be extremely pertinent to mention that he was at the WetSpot or went by FunTime Steven, or was meeting up with people on AFF. Maybe not specifically but in generic terms.

As for being something specific to his disappearance, how would LE know whether or not it was pertinent until they received tips and clues?

Christine sure made it public that it was pertinent. As a matter of fact, she made sure that the internet world felt it was pertinent to his disappearance.

Why would that be...

IMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

I don't believe they could/would mention the details of Nicholas's personal life unless they are pertinent to or there was something that specifically involved his disappearance.

I disagree. I think if there was evidence of a second/secret life and evidence that he was meeting people IRL that he'd met on the internet they would mention it because if that was the case it may have been a factor in his disappearance.

[Cheri_G]

I think it would be extremely pertinent to mention that he was at the WetSpot or went by FunTime Steven, or was meeting up with people on AFF. Maybe not specifically but in generic terms.

As for being something specific to his disappearance, how would LE know whether or not it was pertinent until they received tips and clues?

Christine sure made it public that it was pertinent. As a matter of fact, she made sure that the internet world felt it was pertinent to his disappearance.

Why would that be...

IMO.
M.


(bold by me)

Good point, Musterion. We've been told time and again that this whole secret sex life means its more likely that he just took off or if he met with foul play it was at the hands of someone he met at an adult site or club. So if its true it seems like it would warrant a mention.

[Musterion]

I think it would be just a matter of policy not to mention something on the website unless there is reason to think it might be true. Inotherwords, there is more information than just rumors.

So, are you saying that everything that Christine claimed and made public, on the internet, is not true? That LE realizes that it has NO merit?

IMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

I think it would be just a matter of policy not to mention something on the website unless there is reason to think it might be true. Inotherwords, there is more information than just rumors.

So you feel the adult sites attributed to Nick and claims by Christine that he was meeting up with men and women for sex are just rumour and probably not true?

[SilverDove]

Funny site that is. Out of all the missing people in King County it has only 10 cases and of those 5 are listed with detective names, 3 including the guy they think was in Montana, Nicolas and a girl who went missing are just listed to Cold case which if I remember right was were all old missing cases with no info went.

Making a guess I think Nicholas got on there because of all the interest that his case got as compared to most of them where sadly no one even notices. Since there is no detective list I'm wondering if they really think something happen or are just trying to keep forum people off their backs.

Some how I'm not surprised there isn't more information.

Edit to add: Maybe they just have to much information and didn't bother to write it up, I'm sure there was more information then is on that site about all of the other 9 cases.

Second edit looking again I just noticed they didn't even say anything about arresting someone in the Robert J. Wykel case. :o

[Musterion]

(bold by me)

Good point, Musterion. We've been told time and again that this whole secret sex life means its more likely that he just took off or if he met with foul play it was at the hands of someone he met at an adult site or club. So if its true it seems like it would warrant a mention.

Right, Cheri. Exactly.

Out of hundreds of missing over many years, who, WHO gets a mention in the Cold Case Squad?

In spite of how information, true or false, was manipulated to the internet public? Nicholas. He gets mentioned. Thank God. In spite of Christine's efforts, someone in LE is still keeping a door open to find Nicholas. Thank God.

IMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

Funny site that is. Out of all the missing people in King County it has only 10 cases and of those 5 are listed with detective names, 3 including the guy they think was in Montana, Nicolas and a girl who went missing are just listed to Cold case which if I remember right was were all old missing cases with no info went.

Making a guess I think Nicholas got on there because of all the interest that his case got as compared to most of them where sadly no one even notices. Since there is no detective list I'm wondering if they really think something happen or are just trying to keep forum people off their backs.

Some how I'm not surprised there isn't more information.

Edit to add: Maybe they just have to much information and didn't bother to write it up, I'm sure there was more information then is on that site about all of the other 9 cases.

Second edit looking again I just noticed they didn't even say anything about arresting someone in the Robert J. Wykel case. :o

I seriously doubt they would list an unsolved case just to keep people off their backs.

http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Contact/TIPS/Missing.aspx

We are making updates to this site as time allows, this does not reflect our full library of cold cases. Please check back to review additional cases.

[Musterion]

Funny site that is. Out of all the missing people in King County it has only 10 cases and of those 5 are listed with detective names, 3 including the guy they think was in Montana, Nicolas and a girl who went missing are just listed to Cold case which if I remember right was were all old missing cases with no info went.

Making a guess I think Nicholas got on there because of all the interest that his case got as compared to most of them where sadly no one even notices. Since there is no detective list I'm wondering if they really think something happen or are just trying to keep forum people off their backs.

Some how I'm not surprised there isn't more information.

Edit to add: Maybe they just have to much information and didn't bother to write it up, I'm sure there was more information then is on that site about all of the other 9 cases.

Second edit looking again I just noticed they didn't even say anything about arresting someone in the Robert J. Wykel case. :o

I wondered how long it would take you, SD, to try to shoot down the obvious. (you know I love ya anyway!!)

SD, when you email these detectives and they tell you that adding Nicholas was because of public pressure, I'd like to hear from you. And, while you're at it, ask them why they didn't include ALL the other information that is available and has formed most public opinion on what happened to Nicholas Francisco.

As for Robert Wykel. In that email to the Cold Case maybe ask them why they haven't updated. I'm sure there is an explanation, as to why they didn't include details of Nicholas being the run away husband/father that you believe him to be.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I seriously doubt they would list an unsolved case just to keep people off their backs.

http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Contact/TIPS/Missing.aspx


Wow. That's good Cheri!

IMO.
M.

Nicholas, there are people looking for you. :rose:

[Cheri_G]

Wow. That's good Cheri!

IMO.
M.

Nicholas, there are people looking for you. :rose:

I'm kind of surprised that such an absurd idea was even suggested...

[SilverDove]

I wondered how long it would take you, SD, to try to shoot down the obvious. (you know I love ya anyway!!)

SD, when you email these detectives and they tell you that adding Nicholas was because of public pressure, I'd like to hear from you. And, while you're at it, ask them why they didn't include ALL the other information that is available and has formed most public opinion on what happened to Nicholas Francisco.

As for Robert Wykel. In that email to the Cold Case maybe ask them why they haven't updated. I'm sure there is an explanation, as to why they didn't include details of Nicholas being the run away husband/father that you believe him to be.

IMO.
M.

Don't think I'll be letting out any information that I get from the police again. Last time I did that it got really ugly. I'm also sure this comment will be jumped on and twisted even worse then the last one.

Sadly if Nicholas is dead there is a very good chance that no matter how much his name is kept out there he will never been found. Several of Ted Bundy's have never been found, 6 of the Green River Killers, of course the one I mentioned Robert J. Wykel and many more are still out there some where. This area seems to hid it's secrets well.

If he is alive it is much easier to keep on looking because it is more likely a clue will show up.

[elf999]

Don't think I'll be letting out any information that I get from the police again. Last time I did that it got really ugly. I'm also sure this comment will be jumped on and twisted even worse then the last one.

Sadly if Nicholas is dead there is a very good chance that no matter how much his name is kept out there he will never been found. Several of Ted Bundy's have never been found, 6 of the Green River Killers, of course the one I mentioned Robert J. Wykel and many more are still out there some where. This area seems to hid it's secrets well.

If he is alive it is much easier to keep on looking because it is more likely a clue will show up.

Hi Silver Dove, Good to see you again.

I like your comment about it being easier to keep looking for Nicholas if he is alive, i think you're right, if he is alive a little hint, a little rumor of him here and there keep people's interest and hopes up of finding him. I do hope he's alive and that he's found and identified soon, and this can all all be laid to rest, wouldn't that be wonderful?

I feel a bit like I'm being pounced on too, here. I don't have the time for all this charming banter, so I'll be back when there is something important and interesting to discuss.

Take good care!!

Many Blessings

[SeattleEddie]

I think it would be extremely pertinent to mention that he was at the WetSpot or went by FunTime Steven, or was meeting up with people on AFF. Maybe not specifically but in generic terms.

As for being something specific to his disappearance, how would LE know whether or not it was pertinent until they received tips and clues?

Christine sure made it public that it was pertinent. As a matter of fact, she made sure that the internet world felt it was pertinent to his disappearance.

Why would that be...

IMO.
M.
(emphasis added) Exactly. Thank you for finding this! On Robert Downey, for example, http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Contact/TIPS/Missing/1980s.aspx it's mentioned that he associated with people much older than he was. If LE has evidence that NF was involved in the sex.alt lifestyle, that information would be there.

What this points to IMO is proof of what many of us have suspected all along, that there is no credible evidence that NF went to sex clubs or had a "secret life."

And what if further points to is the fact that CFC has made it her mission to convince the general public that NF abandoned her to live out his wild fantasies. This is not the normal reaction of the spouse of a missing person. The woman knows what happened to NF, and it's not what she's broadcasting to the world - including the one-year interview. That piece of garbage takes the cake for shoddy journalism. Because CFC said it, it was reported as if it were true. I'm sure many people watched it and figured the missing person case was all wrapped up. GRRR:cursing:

all opinions IMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

I think it would be extremely pertinent to mention that he was at the WetSpot or went by FunTime Steven, or was meeting up with people on AFF. Maybe not specifically but in generic terms.

As for being something specific to his disappearance, how would LE know whether or not it was pertinent until they received tips and clues?

Christine sure made it public that it was pertinent. As a matter of fact, she made sure that the internet world felt it was pertinent to his disappearance.
Why would that be...

IMO.
M.

(bold by me)
Not only the internet world, but on television as well, with her first year anniversary interview. If it was pertinent enough to let the world know, then I think it would be pertinent enough to the investigation.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I disagree. I think if there was evidence of a second/secret life and evidence that he was meeting people IRL that he'd met on the internet they would mention it because if that was the case it may have been a factor in his disappearance.

exactly - as in the case regarding Jeremy Scully.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I'm kind of surprised that such an absurd idea was even suggested...

I'm not - it has been this way for a year and a half now. In some people's minds, Nicholas does not deserve to be found, and doesn't deserve the same resources and attention as other missing persons. So, if there is an indicator that Nicholas IS getting those resources or someone IS looking for him, it is minimized and chalked up to something else.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi Silver Dove, Good to see you again.

I like your comment about it being easier to keep looking for Nicholas if he is alive, i think you're right, if he is alive a little hint, a little rumor of him here and there keep people's interest and hopes up of finding him. I do hope he's alive and that he's found and identified soon, and this can all all be laid to rest, wouldn't that be wonderful?

I feel a bit like I'm being pounced on too, here. I don't have the time for all this charming banter, so I'll be back when there is something important and interesting to discuss.

Take good care!!

Many Blessings

Thankfully, there are people who continually try to keep missing persons' cases out front long after they have gone cold,....long after there is nothing important or interesting to discuss. Here are a few dated cases on the Amber Alerts/Missing Persons Forums...

February 1985
November 1997
August 2006
May 2007
November 2007
December 2007

I applaud everyone who tries to do whatever they can, no matter how minimal it is to find answers for those who are lost and missing.

[RainyNiteNTx]

http://porchlightinternationalformissinguid.com/

Is anyone familiar with this organization? Wonder if Nicholas could be added to their website or if a family member has to request it?

[Cheri_G]

http://porchlightinternationalformissinguid.com/

Is anyone familiar with this organization? Wonder if Nicholas could be added to their website or if a family member has to request it?


Mornin' Rainy,

He's listed there.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=29282

[RainyNiteNTx]

Mornin' Rainy,

He's listed there.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=29282

Thanks Cheri - I tried to search his name on that site and it said I wasn't a member - I couldn't navigate around very well. I'm so glad to see he is listed there!

[Musterion]

Hi Silver Dove, Good to see you again.

I like your comment about it being easier to keep looking for Nicholas if he is alive, i think you're right, if he is alive a little hint, a little rumor of him here and there keep people's interest and hopes up of finding him. I do hope he's alive and that he's found and identified soon, and this can all all be laid to rest, wouldn't that be wonderful?

I feel a bit like I'm being pounced on too, here. I don't have the time for all this charming banter, so I'll be back when there is something important and interesting to discuss.

Take good care!!

Many Blessings

You succeeded in upsetting me this morning, elf.

Nicholas, in and of himself, as a human being, is important and interesting. By the mere fact that he was made in the image of God, breathed life, makes him important and interesting.

You write 'blessings', my friend, and it gives the illusion that you are a caring person. Your statement makes me really sad. For you.

You know the reason I am SO excited, so Happy to see Nicholas on the Cold Case Site? Because it says that at least ONE person in LE, ONE person cares enough about Nicholas to keep looking for him.

Nicholas has not had that since Christine put a stop to it with making public a 'secret' life.

Post with us, elf, give us your opinions and insights. It is good to have different viewpoints. But, please don't minimize Nicholas' life or belittle those of us who do care.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Thanks Cheri - I tried to search his name on that site and it said I wasn't a member - I couldn't navigate around very well. I'm so glad to see he is listed there!

Yay!!!!!

IMO.
M.

Hoping for news about Nicholas today!

[elf999]

You succeeded in upsetting me this morning, elf.

Nicholas, in and of himself, as a human being, is important and interesting. By the mere fact that he was made in the image of God, breathed life, makes him important and interesting.

You write 'blessings', my friend, and it gives the illusion that you are a caring person. Your statement makes me really sad. For you.

You know the reason I am SO excited, so Happy to see Nicholas on the Cold Case Site? Because it says that at least ONE person in LE, ONE person cares enough about Nicholas to keep looking for him.

Nicholas has not had that since Christine put a stop to it with making public a 'secret' life.

Post with us, elf, give us your opinions and insights. It is good to have different viewpoints. But, please don't minimize Nicholas' life or belittle those of us who do care.

IMO.
M.

Hi Musterion,

I'm sorry if what I said upset you Musterion but I don't know Nicholas and I have a busy life and I never said I don't care about Nicholas nor all human beings, just that I don't have the time to post here, unless there is something important to post about. Much of the stuff that goes on on this board is not what I consider to be fruitful conversation, there is lots of bickering and disagreement, and it does no good.

Certainly you shouldn't be upset by what I said, I never said Nicholas isn't important, and never felt that he isn't. I am a caring person and if you don't think I am, that's too bad, and I'm sorry that you would think that, it means you don't know me.

When all is said and done, all the arguing and bickering that has gone on on the board has done no good towards finding Nicholas, and that is what is important. If there is a break in the case, or more interesting and new information that might help to find him, I will again post here.

With love and great care Musterion

[porchlight]

Thanks Cheri - I tried to search his name on that site and it said I wasn't a member - I couldn't navigate around very well. I'm so glad to see he is listed there!

Hi, I am Lauran, Porchlight's founder. The international board...the one linked here...has any and all cases we can find listed by year. Under the year, the cases are alphabetized by last name. We also have smaller satellite boards that divide first by county. PorchlightUSA http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/index.php?act=idx has cases first divided by state, then by year and last name. I wish I could make the search thing work without registering but I have never figured out how to do it. All other case information, potential matches and ruled out matches are all available to anyone, registered or not.
We will list any case of a missing or unidentified person. Just contact me at lauran.halleck@gmail.com and I will be glad to add any case or information.
Thanks for caring about all our lost souls.
Here is Nicholas's Porchlightusa link http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/index.php?showtopic=13375&st=0&

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi, I am Lauran, Porchlight's founder. The international board...the one linked here...has any and all cases we can find listed by year. Under the year, the cases are alphabetized by last name. We also have smaller satellite boards that divide first by county. PorchlightUSA http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/index.php?act=idx has cases first divided by state, then by year and last name. I wish I could make the search thing work without registering but I have never figured out how to do it. All other case information, potential matches and ruled out matches are all available to anyone, registered or not.
We will list any case of a missing or unidentified person. Just contact me at lauran.halleck@gmail.com and I will be glad to add any case or information.
Thanks for caring about all our lost souls.

Thank you so much Lauran!! That is very helpful information - and thank you for all that you do.

[RainyNiteNTx]

You succeeded in upsetting me this morning, elf.

Nicholas, in and of himself, as a human being, is important and interesting. By the mere fact that he was made in the image of God, breathed life, makes him important and interesting.

You write 'blessings', my friend, and it gives the illusion that you are a caring person. Your statement makes me really sad. For you.

You know the reason I am SO excited, so Happy to see Nicholas on the Cold Case Site? Because it says that at least ONE person in LE, ONE person cares enough about Nicholas to keep looking for him.

Nicholas has not had that since Christine put a stop to it with making public a 'secret' life.

Post with us, elf, give us your opinions and insights. It is good to have different viewpoints. But, please don't minimize Nicholas' life or belittle those of us who do care.

IMO.
M.

Its okay M - :wub:

Don't let a "stranger's" words upset you. There is a group of us who have continually tried to find out truthful information, to keep NF's name front and center, and to not be manipulated by rumors. I'm sure this core group will continue despite the old tactics of some and new tactics yet to be attempted. It is Nicholas that is important - the one that is missing, and if not another "interesting" word is uttered about him, the mere fact that we are here shows that we take time out of our busy lives to do what we can do.

[porchlight]

Thank you so much Lauran!! That is very helpful information - and thank you for all that you do.
My pleasure. Anytime you need some help getting a case out there, just let me know.

I should add that anyone is free to join us at Porchlight. Our only rule is the golden rule, and there are no other requirements. We welcome discussion, and try to accumulate as much information, articles, blogs etc as we can on any given case. More hands are always welcome. I firmly believe that every pair of eyes searching is another beacon of hope for the lost. So I applaud you all for shining your light!

[Musterion]

My pleasure. Anytime you need some help getting a case out there, just let me know.

I should add that anyone is free to join us at Porchlight. Our only rule is the golden rule, and there are no other requirements. We welcome discussion, and try to accumulate as much information, articles, blogs etc as we can on any given case. More hands are always welcome. I firmly believe that every pair of eyes searching is another beacon of hope for the lost. So I applaud you all for shining your light!

You are amazing, Lauran. Absolutely.

Your philosophy and heart are an inspiration.

Thank you, so much. :rose:

[porchlight]

:blushing:
You are amazing, Lauran. Absolutely.

Your philosophy and heart are an inspiration.

Thank you, so much. :rose:

[RainyNiteNTx]

You are amazing, Lauran. Absolutely.

Your philosophy and heart are an inspiration.

Thank you, so much. :rose:

In total agreement....it just felt so good for someone to encourage us on our efforts rather than tear us down or make fun of us. I love her signature - its sobering, yet hopeful.

[porchlight]

What I find so disturbing is that this missing person's case seems to have become fun and entertainment for some. I've followed missing persons' cases for years and I have never seen anything like it. Somewhere in all of this, Nicholas Francisco, the victim, the missing, has been lost. As recent as this thread, he continues to be the butt of jokes to some. :thumbdown:

JMO

Sigh. I have seen this scenario before myself. What has been done to the Tammy Lynn Leppert case alone is a prime example. There appear to be people out there who thrive on drama, creating upset and disturbance, creating smokescreens to obscure those who are sincere. Half the time these people have no connection to the case in point, either. They just seem to pick one at random, especially if they can find a case being discussed. Tis a sorry state of affairs, but sadly in my experience, it really is not a new phenomenon. Just calling them as I see them...trolls.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Sigh. I have seen this scenario before myself. What has been done to the Tammy Lynn Leppert case alone is a prime example. There appear to be people out there who thrive on drama, creating upset and disturbance, creating smokescreens to obscure those who are sincere. Half the time these people have no connection to the case in point, either. They just seem to pick one at random, especially if they can find a case being discussed. Tis a sorry state of affairs, but sadly in my experience, it really is not a new phenomenon. Just calling them as I see them...trolls.

Lauran - well thank you. I didn't know it existed in other cases as well. That is just beyond sad. I pray every day for the missing, for answers for the families, and if I ever win the lottery, the private eye business will be booming :)

[porchlight]

What I find so disturbing is that this missing person's case seems to have become fun and entertainment for some. I've followed missing persons' cases for years and I have never seen anything like it. Somewhere in all of this, Nicholas Francisco, the victim, the missing, has been lost. As recent as this thread, he continues to be the butt of jokes to some. :thumbdown:

JMO

Sadly, it is all too common. I have been attacked myself so many times I have lost track. They are all the same though. Belligerent blabbermouths without the decency to put their hearts and souls into anything productive. Instead, it is easier to attack people for showing dedication. Thirty years I have been doing this, only to be told it is all for my own self aggrandizement. I could have spent these thirty years in many ways, lots of them lucrative or publicity enhancing. I chose to work for the lost.

[porchlight]

and if I ever win the lottery, the private eye business will be booming :)


I'll pray for that to happen! LOL

[porchlight]

Funny site that is. Out of all the missing people in King County it has only 10 cases and of those 5 are listed with detective names, 3 including the guy they think was in Montana, Nicolas and a girl who went missing are just listed to Cold case which if I remember right was were all old missing cases with no info went.

Making a guess I think Nicholas got on there because of all the interest that his case got as compared to most of them where sadly no one even notices. Since there is no detective list I'm wondering if they really think something happen or are just trying to keep forum people off their backs.

Some how I'm not surprised there isn't more information.

Edit to add: Maybe they just have to much information and didn't bother to write it up, I'm sure there was more information then is on that site about all of the other 9 cases.

Second edit looking again I just noticed they didn't even say anything about arresting someone in the Robert J. Wykel case. :o

I didn't try to count just King County, but there are over seven hundred missing persons cases listed here
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/index.php?showforum=830

[Cheri_G]

Sadly, it is all too common. I have been attacked myself so many times I have lost track. They are all the same though. Belligerent blabbermouths without the decency to put their hearts and souls into anything productive. Instead, it is easier to attack people for showing dedication. Thirty years I have been doing this, only to be told it is all for my own self aggrandizement. I could have spent these thirty years in many ways, lots of them lucrative or publicity enhancing. I chose to work for the lost.

(bold by me)

Anyone who said that to you has no clue as to the time, dedication, and hard work it takes to keep a site, (particularly one as large as Porchlight), up to date.

I haven't come across another site that covers so many cases, not just in one area, but all over the world and I for one appreciate what you do and what it takes to do it.

[Shelby1]

Wow, Porchlight, what a great site and what a great thing you are doing :wub:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Sadly, it is all too common. I have been attacked myself so many times I have lost track. They are all the same though. Belligerent blabbermouths without the decency to put their hearts and souls into anything productive. Instead, it is easier to attack people for showing dedication. Thirty years I have been doing this, only to be told it is all for my own self aggrandizement. I could have spent these thirty years in many ways, lots of them lucrative or publicity enhancing. I chose to work for the lost.

You are an amazing, dedicated person and I'm so thankful for people like you. I understand the attacks. I have personally been made fun of for caring about NF's whereabouts. I've been accused of being in love with him (never mind I'm old enough to be his mother and never met the young man), simply for caring about his case. People like you have a special place in Heaven IMO.

[Musterion]

I didn't try to count just King County, but there are over seven hundred missing persons cases listed here
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/index.php?showforum=830

Lauran,

I am so sorry that I have not been on your site before! I was over there today and am overwhelmed at the amount of information you have for the missing. What a tremendous amount of work and love you have shown.

Thank you for this encouragement you've brought today. It helps us to keep going and searching for Nicholas.

Hugs,
M.

[Musterion]

(bold by me)

Anyone who said that to you has no clue as to the time, dedication, and hard work it takes to keep a site, (particularly one as large as Porchlight), up to date.

I haven't come across another site that covers so many cases, not just in one area, but all over the world and I for one appreciate what you do and what it takes to do it.

You're right, Cheri. No one has a clue. But, you do. You, also, dedicate a lot of time to the missing and murdered on your site. A :rose: for you and your heart. What you do is appreciated!

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

You're right, Cheri. No one has a clue. But, you do. You, also, dedicate a lot of time to the missing and murdered on your site. A :rose: for you and your heart. What you do is appreciated!

IMO.
M.

ITA - Cheri also has a wonderful site that takes a lot of work. Thank goodness for people like you guys!

[Cheri_G]

You're right, Cheri. No one has a clue. But, you do. You, also, dedicate a lot of time to the missing and murdered on your site. A :rose: for you and your heart. What you do is appreciated!

IMO.
M.

Thank you, Musterion. That was a kind thing to say, in fact too kind. I do have an idea what it takes to do what Lauran does, and I also know how easily things can fall behind (I'm an example of that), which makes me all the more appreciative of what Lauran has managed to do with Porchlight.

[Cheri_G]

I guess we should try to pull the thread back on topic.

I think we pretty well debunked the "Nick works at/owns" Nicolas Cleans. There doesn't seem to be any evidence that he is or was in San Diego. LE did not suggest any kind of lifestyle that might play into his disappearance.

Going back to the day Nick disappeared. He went to work. According to Christine they had talked off and on all day. Using what phones? Supposedly Nick's cell phone was dead, so did Christine call the office and has that been confirmed?

He left work around 6pm, was suppose to go to Costco, no indication he made it there. Was he suppose to go there? That info came from Christine, who can not be trusted based on the lies she's been caught in.

Did he make it home that evening? Christine says no. What were their neighbors like? Observant, nosey? Was there somebody else who could confirm he did not come home?

Did anybody check the back yard?

[RainyNiteNTx]

The only thing we know about Nicholas going somewhere after work is what the coworker said. She said he said he had to go "up there". What was up there? An ATM machine? A super market? A bus stop?

[Cheri_G]

The only thing we know about Nicholas going somewhere after work is what the coworker said. She said he said he had to go "up there". What was up there? An ATM machine? A super market? A bus stop?

Or his car?

[RainyNiteNTx]

If you remember, Christine said on her blog that Nicholas always parked on the street. I would think there would be very limited parking on the street. Wonder how he was always able to park on the street? Wouldn't that be a parking spot people would fight her, and get - the ones who got to work earlier than Nicholas did?

Can anyone in the area confirm about how many parking spots would be on the street in front of Publicis?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Or his car?

true - I just posted about CFC saying he always parked on the street, so yeah...maybe his car

[porchlight]

If you remember, Christine said on her blog that Nicholas always parked on the street. I would think there would be very limited parking on the street. Wonder how he was always able to park on the street? Wouldn't that be a parking spot people would fight her, and get - the ones who got to work earlier than Nicholas did?

Can anyone in the area confirm about how many parking spots would be on the street in front of Publicis?

Or could this mean that there is an employee lot usually full by the time he arrives...and thus parks on the public street? I guess it depends on the locale. I also tend to think in terms of street parking as opposed to commercial parking lots or structures? I could be off base here, if so, sorry. I am not exactly a sleuth.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Or could this mean that there is an employee lot usually full by the time he arrives...and thus parks on the public street? I guess it depends on the locale. I also tend to think in terms of street parking as opposed to commercial parking lots or structures? I could be off base here, if so, sorry. I am not exactly a sleuth.

No, you're right. It was reported he parked on the street. There was a picture of the front of Publicis where he worked and it just looked to me like that would be a prime parking space. I know I would prefer parking there and walking right in the front door.

[porchlight]

No, you're right. It was reported he parked on the street. There was a picture of the front of Publicis where he worked and it just looked to me like that would be a prime parking space. I know I would prefer parking there and walking right in the front door.
Perhaps spaces were assigned or employees asked to use the street only as overflow when lot was full? Just thinking out loud. I never saw any photos

[Cheri_G]

Or could this mean that there is an employee lot usually full by the time he arrives...and thus parks on the public street? I guess it depends on the locale. I also tend to think in terms of street parking as opposed to commercial parking lots or structures? I could be off base here, if so, sorry. I am not exactly a sleuth.

I want to say there was parking nearby and street parking, but not parking just for Publicis, but thinking about it, I just don't know and can't remember for sure if this has been addressed.

As I recall there was a lot of speculation about how far away he may have to park which led me to believe Publicis did not have its own parking.

Maybe somebody who worked with Nick (or who works there now)can tell us if there is parking for the company.

[Cheri_G]

true - I just posted about CFC saying he always parked on the street, so yeah...maybe his car


Glad to know my memory isn't totally unreliable. So if he parked on the street regularly as claimed there probably was no specific parking lot for Publicis.... ?

[Cheri_G]

Perhaps spaces were assigned or employees asked to use the street only as overflow when lot was full? Just thinking out loud. I never saw any photos

That's possible. I guess I got in my head based on things reported and said that he left for work and arrived there early and left late/came home late. But thinking about it now, leaving home early doesn't necessarily mean getting in before everyone else.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Glad to know my memory isn't totally unreliable. So if he parked on the street regularly as claimed there probably was no specific parking lot for Publicis.... ?

I could have sworn there was a parking lot for Publicis, and Christine said he did not park in the parking lot, but parked on the street. I wish we had access to our old posts and links.

[RainyNiteNTx]

A co-worker saw him leave the building at 6:10PM - he never said he was going to safeway that was speculation on the co-workers part based on him saying he need to “go up here” as he pointed up the hill towards his car. the co-worker really did just assume he was going to safeway and had no basis for that assumption.
*He would have parked on the street not in a parking lot.
*No one saw him get in his car or drive away.
*His cell phone battery was dead all day, confirmed by co-workers

This was from Christine's blog dated March 3rd, 2008 in her blog called FAMILY. It answers some questions about the cell phone, and about the parking.

[Starkist]

From what I recall, it was said Nick parked on the street because the parking structure cost him money to park in.

Why does elf even come here when he/she has nothing valid to add to this discussion? He/she says there's nothing of interest or importance to talk about so why does he/she continue to post? If that was the way I felt, I certainly would not be sitting here wasting my time on a daily basis for someone I do not know or particularly care for. This is not a car wreck, or a game or some sort of bottlenecking sport...this is about a fellow human being who is missing...We do not know why he is missing or if he is hurt, sick or dead...any speck of information in the help for finding him is important IMO.

[SilverDove]

Here is a map with the building marked. You can drag the little person from the top to the street and look around that way.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=424+2nd+Ave+W,+Seattle,+WA%E2%80%8E&sll=47.622468,-122.359385&sspn=0.000944,0.002607&ie=UTF8&ll=47.623854,-122.359242&spn=0.007549,0.020857&t=h&z=16&iwloc=A

[RainyNiteNTx]

Here is a map with the building marked. You can drag the little person from the top to the street and look around that way.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=424+2nd+Ave+W,+Seattle,+WA%E2%80%8E&sll=47.622468,-122.359385&sspn=0.000944,0.002607&ie=UTF8&ll=47.623854,-122.359242&spn=0.007549,0.020857&t=h&z=16&iwloc=A


Well thats cool - thanks SD. If I did it right, it looks like the street would hold limited parking in front of Publicis.

[SilverDove]

Well thats cool - thanks SD. If I did it right, it looks like the street would hold limited parking in front of Publicis.

True it is limited but depending on how far you are willing to walk and if there are any events going on at the Seattle Center you should be able to find a spot. The big problem is the two hour parking. That is why he had so many parking tickets. I've parked in that area and trust me the parking enforcement can be very active in areas like that.

[RainyNiteNTx]

True it is limited but depending on how far you are willing to walk and if there are any events going on at the Seattle Center you should be able to find a spot. The big problem is the two hour parking. That is why he had so many parking tickets. I've parked in that area and trust me the parking enforcement can be very active in areas like that.

It seems like it would have been cheaper to pay for the parking and park in the lot rather than have to pay all those parking tickets. That could be up to 4 tickets a day if it was two hour parking.

[Musterion]

Here is a map with the building marked. You can drag the little person from the top to the street and look around that way.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=424+2nd+Ave+W,+Seattle,+WA%E2%80%8E&sll=47.622468,-122.359385&sspn=0.000944,0.002607&ie=UTF8&ll=47.623854,-122.359242&spn=0.007549,0.020857&t=h&z=16&iwloc=A

Thank you, SD.

That is absolutely amazing and helpful. Good job.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

It seems like it would have been cheaper to pay for the parking and park in the lot rather than have to pay all those parking tickets. That could be up to 4 tickets a day if it was two hour parking.

Well, I'm not sure he ever paid those tickets, Rainy. ???

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Well, I'm not sure he ever paid those tickets, Rainy. ???

IMO.
M.

But how long do they let you go or how many tickets can you have before they arrest you or something?

[Musterion]

But how long do they let you go or how many tickets can you have before they arrest you or something?

IIRC, he was due in court for some and, of course, didn't show.

Let me whip over to the WA Courts and see if that is still there.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

But how long do they let you go or how many tickets can you have before they arrest you or something?

Well, I'm not finding them. Hm. Why do things get deleted and go missing when we try to find them in this case? Just curious.

I'm sure I just overlooked it.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Well, I'm not finding them. Hm. Why do things get deleted and go missing when we try to find them in this case? Just curious.

I'm sure I just overlooked it.

IMO.
M.


Would they still show up if they were paid? Or maybe they were erased from his record because he is missing? I dunno.

[Musterion]

But how long do they let you go or how many tickets can you have before they arrest you or something?

Oh, okay. Here we go.

http://web1.seattle.gov/courts/cpi/

He's in default for this one:

Case Number: 202636847
Case Type: IP
Case Category:
Case Status: DFLT
End Date: 6/17/2008
Filing Date: 2/1/2008
File Location: REC
Total Obligation Due: $55.00
Defendant Name: NICHOLAS FRANCISCO
Defense Attorney:
Arraignment Waiver Date:
Attorney Waiver Date:
Jurisdiction End Date:
Jury Waiver Date:
Police Incident#:
Amount in Collection: Go to collection window on First Floor

These have been resolved:

202472335 IP CLSE Sep 15, 2006
202469164 IP CLSE Sep 07, 2006
202463625 IP CLSE Aug 17, 2006
202461294 IP CLSE Aug 08, 2006
202437984 IP CLSE May 24, 2006
202393403 IP CLSE Jan 10, 2006
202252533 IP CLSE Oct 16, 2004
202247288 IP CLSE Sep 29, 2004
202234613 IP CLSE Sep 04, 2004
202181857 IT CLSE Apr 05, 2004
202032245 IP CLSE Feb 05, 2003
201650826 IN CLSE May 05, 2000

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Oh, okay. Here we go.

http://web1.seattle.gov/courts/cpi/

He's in default for this one:

Case Number: 202636847
Case Type: IP
Case Category:
Case Status: DFLT
End Date: 6/17/2008
Filing Date: 2/1/2008
File Location: REC
Total Obligation Due: $55.00
Defendant Name: NICHOLAS FRANCISCO
Defense Attorney:
Arraignment Waiver Date:
Attorney Waiver Date:
Jurisdiction End Date:
Jury Waiver Date:
Police Incident#:
Amount in Collection: Go to collection window on First Floor

These have been resolved:

202472335 IP CLSE Sep 15, 2006
202469164 IP CLSE Sep 07, 2006
202463625 IP CLSE Aug 17, 2006
202461294 IP CLSE Aug 08, 2006
202437984 IP CLSE May 24, 2006
202393403 IP CLSE Jan 10, 2006
202252533 IP CLSE Oct 16, 2004
202247288 IP CLSE Sep 29, 2004
202234613 IP CLSE Sep 04, 2004
202181857 IT CLSE Apr 05, 2004
202032245 IP CLSE Feb 05, 2003
201650826 IN CLSE May 05, 2000

IMO.
M.

He got only one ticket in 2008 until the time he went missing? If he parked on the street every day how could he have only one parking ticket in 2008? That would have been a period of six weeks, and SD said it is two hour parking.

[Starkist]

He got only one ticket in 2008 until the time he went missing? If he parked on the street every day how could he have only one parking ticket in 2008? That would have been a period of six weeks, and SD said it is two hour parking.

Perhaps he went out every 2 hours and moved his car? I do it at the Dr's office every half hour if I am there that long. It's really a hassle though so I cannot see how he could have done it everyday!

[Musterion]

He got only one ticket in 2008 until the time he went missing? If he parked on the street every day how could he have only one parking ticket in 2008? That would have been a period of six weeks, and SD said it is two hour parking.

Look on the link SD sent. I had to go back and look. It doesn't look like there are meters on the street? Does it look that way to you two, Rainy, Starkist?

My eyes are probably tired.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

He got only one ticket in 2008 until the time he went missing? If he parked on the street every day how could he have only one parking ticket in 2008? That would have been a period of six weeks, and SD said it is two hour parking.

Lots of people do it in Seattle. You park in the morning at break you move it, then drive it for lunch, and again move it at afternoon break. Sometimes you can even just trade with a buddy who is also parked on the street. Not particularly unusual and if you don't get many tickets can still save money.

Even with parking sometimes you don't get a space but you more get the right to have a spot without paying if one is still open. So if you are late and there are no open spaces you would still be parking on the street.

[SilverDove]

Look on the link SD sent. I had to go back and look. It doesn't look like there are meters on the street? Does it look that way to you two, Rainy, Starkist?

My eyes are probably tired.

IMO.
M.

Nope no meters it is free parking BUT the parking enforcement comes around ever two hours or slightly more and marks the tires then around in another 2 hours and any marked tires get tickets.

Edit to add: I take that back it looks like it is part metered and part free depending on the street. We don't have parking meters we have boxes that print a sticker that you take back and put on your car. No free left over meter time for us. I don't remember if they were in down there a year and a half ago though.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Look on the link SD sent. I had to go back and look. It doesn't look like there are meters on the street? Does it look that way to you two, Rainy, Starkist?

My eyes are probably tired.

IMO.
M.

I didn't see any - maybe they come through and mark the tires. Do they put those jaw things on the tires? Anybody know?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Lots of people do it in Seattle. You park in the morning at break you move it, then drive it for lunch, and again move it at afternoon break. Sometimes you can even just trade with a buddy who is also parked on the street. Not particularly unusual and if you don't get many tickets can still save money.

Even with parking sometimes you don't get a space but you more get the right to have a spot without paying if one is still open. So if you are late and there are no open spaces you would still be parking on the street.

wow - I can't imagine having to do all of that. The parking lots must cost a lot of money for someone to choose to do all of that.

[Musterion]

wow - I can't imagine having to do all of that. The parking lots must cost a lot of money for someone to choose to do all of that.

SD is right, about the tire marks. I had forgotten about it since I haven't had to worry about parking on the street or moving my car for some reason!!

I keep thinking why in the world, with all the technology, were there not some camera on some building, in some parking lot, on the highways showing Nicholas in his car, or even if he made it to his car....

And, remind me, the ATM withdrawal was never confirmed, right?

IMO.
M.

[Starkist]

SD is right, about the tire marks. I had forgotten about it since I haven't had to worry about parking on the street or moving my car for some reason!!

I keep thinking why in the world, with all the technology, were there not some camera on some building, in some parking lot, on the highways showing Nicholas in his car, or even if he made it to his car....

And, remind me, the ATM withdrawal was never confirmed, right?

IMO.
M.

The only one who ever confirmed the ATM withdrawl was C.

[Musterion]

Hey everyone here we are for the weekend.

Answering Starkist about Nicholas' alleged ATM withdrawal the day he went missing, you are right, to this day:

I still can't find ANY CONFIRMATION from LE that the last call made to or from Nicholas' cell phone was at 4:47PM on 13 February.

I still can't find ANY CONFIRMATION from LE that Nicholas made an ATM withdrawal from a 'secret' Paypal account at 6:13PM 13 February.

If anyone can, please, find LE's confirmation to these facts, please post.

All we have is his ex-wife's confirmation and she remarried shy of a year that Nicholas went missing. And moved across the US with his children.

"I am moving to a place where mountains are only a dream. I took my kids to a wonderful park and the sun was starting to set. I love how the sun captivated the Olympic Mountain Range. Magnificent creation."

http://www.jpgmag.com/photos/1847697

"Bella Style is closed while we move across the country."

http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=5008691

Her Marriage License App.

http://kcwaimg.co.kitsap.wa.us/recorder/web/login.jsp

Marriage Application - 200904150160
General Data
Aud. File Num
200904150160 Recording Fee
$64.00 Number Pages
1 Recording Date
04/15/2009 02:33:36 PM
Sign Date
04/15/2009 Date License Valid
04/18/2009 Expiration Date
06/17/2009 LicenseNumber

Groom
First
BRENT Middle
JONOTHAN Last
CARTER
CARTER BRENT JONOTHAN
Age
30 Age Verify
30
BirthPlace
DENVER Birth State
CO Status
Single
Mother Consent
Father Consent

Father's Name
JAMES CARTER SR Father's Birth State
IA
Mother's Birth State
MO
Bride
First
CHRISTINE Middle
ANN Last
FRANCISCO
FRANCISCO CHRISTINE ANN
Age
28 Age Verify
28
Birth Place
MT VERNON Birth State
WA Status
Divorced
Father Consent
Mother Consent

Father's Name
RICHARD FOX Father's Birth State
WA
Mother's Birth State
UNKNOWN

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Major Crimes Unit

The King County Sheriff’s Office Major Crimes Unit is responsible for investigating crimes such as homicide, robbery, and felony assault. They also are responsible for investigating tips regarding “cold” homicide and missing persons cases.

http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Enforcement/Investigations/MajorCrime.aspx

Since this is a "cold" missing person and since no detective is assigned to it I'm not sure we can determine if it is there because it is a cold case or because they believe it was homicide. Personally since most of the others have detectives assigned, even much older ones, I suspect that is nothing making them think it is a homicide. jmo

[SilverDove]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=2004440078&zsection_id=2003952987&slug=brodeur27m&date=20080527

This is an interesting article which may explain that all the attention did get Nicholas on King County missing web site when so many 100's of others aren't that on there. Just hundreds of others that no one has paid attention to. Also it does say that LE looked at camera but says nothing about if they did or didn't find anything.

[SilverDove]

If we are going back over everything this is a great collection of what was found and emails from LE. http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dcbh2vh8_12chs2qchq

[Starkist]

Major Crimes Unit

The King County Sheriff’s Office Major Crimes Unit is responsible for investigating crimes such as homicide, robbery, and felony assault. They also are responsible for investigating tips regarding “cold” homicide and missing persons cases.

http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Enforcement/Investigations/MajorCrime.aspx

Since this is a "cold" missing person and since no detective is assigned to it I'm not sure we can determine if it is there because it is a cold case or because they believe it was homicide. Personally since most of the others have detectives assigned, even much older ones, I suspect that is nothing making them think it is a homicide. jmo

A case is merely assigned to a detective or department working there at the time. How many of those detectives, assigned to prior cold cases are even still at KCSO? It doesn't matter whether a case was assigned to a detective or not, essentially, for them to think it was a homicide or otherwise. You can define this piece of information any way you wish, however Nicholas's case fit the criteria to be placed in the "major crime" category and that's the bottom line.

[Danette44]

A case is merely assigned to a detective or department working there at the time. How many of those detectives, assigned to prior cold cases are even still at KCSO? It doesn't matter whether a case was assigned to a detective or not, essentially, for them to think it was a homicide or otherwise. You can define this piece of information any way you wish, however Nicholas's case fit the criteria to be placed in the "major crime" category and that's the bottom line.

This is one case that from the start I felt and still feels Christine knows what happen to Nicholas. I just feel if he was alive he would come out of hiding now that Christine is remarried. She sure got her hands on alot of donations from day one and then BAM.....she is moving and then files for a divorce and now married......people just amazes me. They need to check that Lake out! Wouldn't he be taken off the missing persons links if LE knew he was alive and living else where - Christine states it's a FACT that Nicholas was leading a double life and she knew nothing about it. I really wonder if her young baby is really Nicholas??? Would she have to wait 7 yrs to claim him dead in order to collect Social Sercurity for her children? jmoo

[Cheri_G]

Hey everyone here we are for the weekend.

Answering Starkist about Nicholas' alleged ATM withdrawal the day he went missing, you are right, to this day:

I still can't find ANY CONFIRMATION from LE that the last call made to or from Nicholas' cell phone was at 4:47PM on 13 February.

I still can't find ANY CONFIRMATION from LE that Nicholas made an ATM withdrawal from a 'secret' Paypal account at 6:13PM 13 February.

If anyone can, please, find LE's confirmation to these facts, please post.

**respectfully snipped**

IMO.
M.

FWIW Det. Holland told me that the info regarding the ATM withdrawl and the cell phone call at 4:47pm originated with him.

[Musterion]

Major Crimes Unit

The King County Sheriff’s Office Major Crimes Unit is responsible for investigating crimes such as homicide, robbery, and felony assault. They also are responsible for investigating tips regarding “cold” homicide and missing persons cases.

http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Enforcement/Investigations/MajorCrime.aspx

Since this is a "cold" missing person and since no detective is assigned to it I'm not sure we can determine if it is there because it is a cold case or because they believe it was homicide. Personally since most of the others have detectives assigned, even much older ones, I suspect that is nothing making them think it is a homicide. jmo

Hi SD,

I just posted this to you on HTFM regarding what you are saying here as well:

"Hi SD!

I'm not sure what you are saying.

Nicholas went missing. He remains listed on the WASPC site. His case has been assigned to the Cold Case Division.

He would not be assigned to the Cold Case Division if he did not meet the criteria.

Criteria states: "First, detectives must determine if a person is missing against their will."

It sounds like they may not believe Nicholas left on his own if this is their first criteria.

As for not listing the name of a detective, specifically, on Nicholas' profile, out of the 9 person's listed, 5 do not have a specific detective listed.

There are only two Detectives with the Cold Case Unit: Scott Tompkins and Jake Pavlovich. You are saying no specific investigator is assigned to Nicholas? It says call 'detectives'. It sounds like both Detectives are pursuing this case.

It sounds like you are minimizing Nicholas' case being listed on the Cold Case Site. Like there are no other missing person's in Washington State/King County so they just felt they had to slap Nicholas' case up there.

But, SD, on this site:

http://z13.invisionfree.com/Porchlig...?showforum=830

I count roughly over 600 missing cases in Washington State alone. From 2000-2009, I estimate over 60 unsolved missing person's cases in King County alone. I haven't counted how many from KC in the other years, but it is enough to tell me that Nicholas isn't just nonchalantly thrown up on this site.

It means something. IMO. It means something important.

M."

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

If we are going back over everything this is a great collection of what was found and emails from LE. http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dcbh2vh8_12chs2qchq

There is some good info there!

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=2004440078&zsection_id=2003952987&slug=brodeur27m&date=20080527

This is an interesting article which may explain that all the attention did get Nicholas on King County missing web site when so many 100's of others aren't that on there. Just hundreds of others that no one has paid attention to. Also it does say that LE looked at camera but says nothing about if they did or didn't find anything.

Thank you about the camera info.

SD, I don't understand. Are you saying that the only reason Nicholas is on the Cold Case Site is because he got so much attention from the media?

Are you, totally, dismissing the fact that he fits the criteria to be on the Cold Case Site?

Or are you saying that Nicholas is listed on the WASPC Missing Web site purely because he received media attention and not because he fit the criteria of a missing person?

I'm confused. Can you clarify for me?

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Thank you about the camera info.

SD, I don't understand. Are you saying that the only reason Nicholas is on the Cold Case Site is because he got so much attention from the media?

Are you, totally, dismissing the fact that he fits the criteria to be on the Cold Case Site?

Or are you saying that Nicholas is listed on the WASPC Missing Web site purely because he received media attention and not because he fit the criteria of a missing person?

I'm confused. Can you clarify for me?

IMO.
M.

Of course he is on there because he is missing but if he hadn't got all of the attention he wouldn't be there. If you look at what they posted it appears to be a quick job. There isn't even any information like he left 2 children and a pregnant wife or that he was a good father and devoted wife which would point to the fact he had no reason to leave on his own.

100's and 100's of other case with much less attention and none of them are there? Seems to me it was added because so many people were interested not that he was more important then the many others who no one takes about.

The police have said there is not one shred of evidence that he met with foul play.

Now do I think it is important that he be found no matter what his life style, no matter what happened? Of course I do. I want nothing more then to find out what happened. I wouldn't be here if I didn't but blinding to anything other then Christine killed him or had him killed won't do that. Trying to grab any tiny thing to try to prove some point won't find him.

I also believe there are people out there who know where he is but I don't believe that it is Christine. She was just the main face and the one who wrote the most so people pin all of their frustration on her.

[Musterion]

FWIW Det. Holland told me that the info regarding the ATM withdrawl and the cell phone call at 4:47pm originated with him.

Thanks, Cheri.

Why, I wonder, where the withdrawal was made and who the call was from or to have been kept quiet.

It would seem that information could yield more clues.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Of course he is on there because he is missing but if he hadn't got all of the attention he wouldn't be there. If you look at what they posted it appears to be a quick job. There isn't even any information like he left 2 children and a pregnant wife or that he was a good father and devoted wife which would point to the fact he had no reason to leave on his own.

100's and 100's of other case with much less attention and none of them are there? Seems to me it was added because so many people were interested not that he was more important then the many others who no one takes about.

The police have said there is not one shred of evidence that he met with foul play.

Now do I think it is important that he be found no matter what his life style, no matter what happened? Of course I do. I want nothing more then to find out what happened. I wouldn't be here if I didn't but blinding to anything other then Christine killed him or had him killed won't do that. Trying to grab any tiny thing to try to prove some point won't find him.

I also believe there are people out there who know where he is but I don't believe that it is Christine. She was just the main face and the one who wrote the most so people pin all of their frustration on her.

Bolding Mine.

Who is turning a blind eye to anything other than Christine killed Nicholas or had him killed?

I believe that we are starting in the most logical place and working from that.

Christine was Nicholas' wife when he went missing. That is who is scrutinized and investigated first, until answers come. (Isn't that how most MP and Murder cases are?)

Many of us feel we do not have the answers where Christine is concerned. Her behaviours since Nicholas disappeared have been and continue to be suspicious. IMO.

Any other theories are just as valid to be investigated.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Bolding Mine.

Who is turning a blind eye to anything other than Christine killed Nicholas or had him killed?

I believe that we are starting in the most logical place and working from that.

Christine was Nicholas' wife when he went missing. That is who is scrutinized and investigated first, until answers come. (Isn't that how most MP and Murder cases are?)

Many of us feel we do not have the answers where Christine is concerned. Her behaviours since Nicholas disappeared have been and continue to be suspicious. IMO.

Any other theories are just as valid to be investigated.

IMO.
M.

So did she manage to kill him, hid the body, clean up and move the car with two kids in tow and pregnant?

Did she hire someone and if so would someone kill another person and do all the work on the vague promise that she might sell enough aprons or get donations to pay him?

Was it a lover that no one saw her with? Why would he want to go to all the work and risk of killing him when divorce would be so much easier?

Did she find someone who hated him so much that they were willing to do the job for free? Why did know one know about this person?

Why if she or they were able to plan and commit the perfect murder did they not come up with a plan that either left evidence that he had been killed such as leaving blood in the car or even allowing the body to be found so that she could collect social security and insurance? With evidence of foul play she could have had him declared dead much sooner.

As to some of her behavior abuse could explain much of it. Abuse is funny. It is like if you put a frog hot water it will jump out but if you put it in cold water and heat it up slowly the frog will stay in it until it dies. Abuse isn't something that starts out from the start and is unrelenting. It usually starts slowly and is interspersed with good times. Many woman don't even notice they are in an abusive relationship until it stops or they talk to someone and see the abuse for what it is.

I still can't understand how she could commit such a perfect murder and not leave on trace of evidence. I'm still trying to figure out a scenario that has her being involved in killing him but just haven't come up with it.

Now if she did come to see that she was in an abusive relationship and she did find evidence of a secret life I can see her moving on his quickly.

Just because some spouses kill their spouse doesn't lead to all dead spouses were killed by their spouse. Using the same logic you could also come up with it is more unusual for women to kill then for men to kill.

[Danette44]

Bolding Mine.

Who is turning a blind eye to anything other than Christine killed Nicholas or had him killed?

I believe that we are starting in the most logical place and working from that.

Christine was Nicholas' wife when he went missing. That is who is scrutinized and investigated first, until answers come. (Isn't that how most MP and Murder cases are?)

Many of us feel we do not have the answers where Christine is concerned. Her behaviours since Nicholas disappeared have been and continue to be suspicious. IMO.

Any other theories are just as valid to be investigated.

IMO.
M.

Thank You Musterion! I am so surprised she is remarried and moved out of the state already! If people truly knew where Nicholas was why hasn't LE taken him off the Missing Persons Link - I'm sure they would be the first to know if he's in hiding and alive and well ( which I pray, but still have doubts ). Everything Nicholas had worked and lived for is all gone - GONE, if he indeed left on his own then he deserves it. I guess this means also his family won't beable to see the grandkids now - how sad is that. MOO.

[Musterion]

April 1, 2009 12:52 PM

King County sheriff starts cold case unit

Posted by Nick Provenza

"A Justice Department grant is funding a cold case unit in the King County sheriff's office.

The grant will pay for two detectives and an analyst and expenses for 18 months.

They are reviewing 193 unsolved homicide and missing person cases dating back to 1942.

They'll tackle the cases most likely to be solved with DNA or other new forensic testing.

Until now unsolved homicides were handled by the sheriff's major crimes detectives."

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/crime/2009/04/01/king_county_sheriff_starts_col.html

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Thank You Musterion! I am so surprised she is remarried and moved out of the state already! If people truly knew where Nicholas was why hasn't LE taken him off the Missing Persons Link - I'm sure they would be the first to know if he's in hiding and alive and well ( which I pray, but still have doubts ). Everything Nicholas had worked and lived for is all gone - GONE, if he indeed left on his own then he deserves it. I guess this means also his family won't beable to see the grandkids now - how sad is that. MOO.

Hi Danette!

The whole case is sad, isn't it?

I think it does mean that that Nicholas' children won't be seeing Nicholas' family much at all. And, I would almost bet that the children will end up with the last name of Carter some day, as well.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

So did she manage to kill him, hid the body, clean up and move the car with two kids in tow and pregnant?

Did she hire someone and if so would someone kill another person and do all the work on the vague promise that she might sell enough aprons or get donations to pay him?

Was it a lover that no one saw her with? Why would he want to go to all the work and risk of killing him when divorce would be so much easier?

Did she find someone who hated him so much that they were willing to do the job for free? Why did know one know about this person?

Why if she or they were able to plan and commit the perfect murder did they not come up with a plan that either left evidence that he had been killed such as leaving blood in the car or even allowing the body to be found so that she could collect social security and insurance? With evidence of foul play she could have had him declared dead much sooner.

As to some of her behavior abuse could explain much of it. Abuse is funny. It is like if you put a frog hot water it will jump out but if you put it in cold water and heat it up slowly the frog will stay in it until it dies. Abuse isn't something that starts out from the start and is unrelenting. It usually starts slowly and is interspersed with good times. Many woman don't even notice they are in an abusive relationship until it stops or they talk to someone and see the abuse for what it is.

I still can't understand how she could commit such a perfect murder and not leave on trace of evidence. I'm still trying to figure out a scenario that has her being involved in killing him but just haven't come up with it.

Now if she did come to see that she was in an abusive relationship and she did find evidence of a secret life I can see her moving on his quickly.

Just because some spouses kill their spouse doesn't lead to all dead spouses were killed by their spouse. Using the same logic you could also come up with it is more unusual for women to kill then for men to kill.

Hi SD!

I've always loved your passionate responses!

I don't think I said that because someone kills their spouse ALL murdered people were killed by their spouse.

I do not believe that Christine was an abused wife.

I believe the prisons are full of people convicted of murder who didn't kill for money at all. Money was not the motive. Freedom to pursue another relationship or life or marriage may be just as strong or stronger motives than money. IMO.

As for the scenario you mentioned. Yes, I believe anyone is capable, with kids in tow, pregnant, of committing a homicide.

And, as for cleaning up a murder scene, not all murder scenes leave blood evidence. Or much evidence at all.

IMO.
M.

[porchlight]

Many adults go "missing" as a last resort. And although we find it hard to imagine being without debit cards, cell phones etc. the truly desparate manage just fine. I truly pray that this case is like the recent Jon Von**** case, who came home after 5+ years only to seek a divorce. Or another recent case of a man who surfaced only when he wanted to renew his license. He was essentially "caught" only then but had managed to live under the radar until then. I think often these people have little recourse but to end their unhappy lives. There are two ways to do that...suicide or disappearing. I think it takes a special inner strength to be that desparate and still choose to live.
Please Nicholas, just let somebody know you are okay....

[porchlight]

The number of people, children and adults, who go missing each year is simply mind bloggling. The number of people left behind to wonder, worry and wait are even greater. The loss reverberates through every aspect of life. Every holiday or family occasion is also an occasion for a renewal of loss, a renewal of pain and uncertainty. Please help bring some of these lost souls home...

Sometimes it is just a shadow, a small missing piece of light where light should be. Sometimes it is an echo, a hint of a voice that only you still hear. On a bright summer day, it is the empty swing, moving without a hint of a breeze. On a warm afternoon, it is the rocking chair that gently rocks beside mine, Sometimes it is a fleeting memory, passing through your mind. It is easy to chase that memory and get lost in the journey.
These are just some of the events that fill the days of a family with a missing loved one. The empty chair at the dining table, the birthday gifts that have never been given, the haunting feeling of a closet full of clothes never worn become daily wounds that can never heal.
What kind of answer can you give when asked how many children you have? Do you say I have three, but one is missing? Do people want to hear? Life gets divided between people you knew before the disappearance, and people you met after. Who to tell? And just how much to tell? When your husband or wife goes missing, are you still married? The questions and difficulties are endless, painful and all consuming.
And then you realize you are not alone. There are people who care, even if they don't even know your name. There are people who spend countless precious hours of their time trying to help complete strangers. That is when you know that although you may always live with the shadows and echos of your missing loved one, you are also strengthened by the kindness and caring of others. I thank you all from the bottom of my heart.


If you would like to see more of the many faces of the missing, adults and children, see here. This is still under reconstruction after half of the site crashed, but you can get an idea of the scope of the problem.
http://porchlightusamissing.1colony.com/

[Cheri_G]

**respectfully snipped**

Just because some spouses kill their spouse doesn't lead to all dead spouses were killed by their spouse. Using the same logic you could also come up with it is more unusual for women to kill then for men to kill.

You're absolutely right, but it the fact remains that sometimes people do kill their spouse. Whether or not Christine did remains to be seen.

I don't think that innocence by reason of children/pregnancy makes a good argument. I believe Christine said she found out she was pregnant mid to late January so assuming she told the truth, when Nick went missing in February she would have been in her first trimester. Unless there is something in the air or water in WA that makes women weak or invalid upon discovering they are pregnant, there's no physical reason Christine couldn't have harmed Nick. She has demonstrated that she has a temper when she's not getting her way so who's to say what she may have been capable of.

I do agree that if Christine had anything to do with Nick's disappearance its unlikely that she hired someone, however I wouldn't easily dismiss the possibility of a lover and their involvement. Jealousy is a powerful motivation. If it was somebody who had never met Nick and she had told them he was abusive, feeling like they had to protect her could be another possible reason.

Innocence by reason of no evidence in the home or Nick's car assumes that if Nick met with foul play and Christine was involved it had to happen at the home and his car was used to dispose of him. The fact is there are other possibilities and there are enough unsolved homicides to indicate that there isn't always enough evidence to lead to the perpetrator.

While I can see your reasoning that abuse may explain why Christine moved on so quickly, the fact is there is no evidence of Nick being abusive other than a box ticked on a form. The quick filing for divorce and remarrying could suggest that Christine had been planning to end her marriage to Nick one way or another.

As for why if she was involved she wouldn't set things up for Nick's body to be found quickly to collect insurance or whatever, I think that the sooner someone is found the easier it is to work out what happened to them, when and by whom. If Nick met with foul play and she is involved its better for her that he's not found for a long time if it all.