8/26 - 10/12

[RainyNiteNTx]

Snipped For Bandwith

The bottom line is simple; Christine is innocent until proven guilty. Very important.

Next; there is not one shred of evidenceto think Christine did ie.

Next; anyone having a gut feeling that she killed her husband is nonsense.

Next; and most importantly, he has not been found dead.

Last; people move everyday. It doesn't mean they killed someone. Thank goodness we have a judicial process in this country or we'd be seeing another example of the Salem Witch Trials.

I can't believe people are still posting about this case when there hasn't been any news in months and months. Nothing has changed.

I hope Nicholas is found safe. :rose:

MOO

Do you also frequent the Ray Gricar thread and tell them you can't believe they are still posting about him even though there hasn't been any news? Or the Trenton Duckett thread, or the Christine Sheddy thread, or the Louetta Harrelson/Peggy Merimon thread? Just wondering.

[Postergeist]

How anyone thinks their "gut" is a barometer for the truth and/or guilt or innocence is beyond me. IMO

MOO

For Nicholas :rose:

<snipped>

IRRC, I thought that the former Mrs. Francisco and others that knew him mentioned their "gut" about he wouldn't have just walked away.

I have to say, I'm glad that it was 2 police offers that had a "gut instinct" to look into the background of Philip Garrido, or else Jaycee Dugard would still be listed as "missing".

http://www.newsweek.com/id/214693

Following a Hunch, Solving a Mystery
How intuition worked to free Jaycee Dugard—and why it took so long for someone to speak up.


The FBI spent 18 years trying to find Jaycee Dugard, a girl abducted in 1991, when she was 11, while walking to her bus stop in South Lake Tahoe, Calif. But when the case broke last week, it wasn't a sweeping raid or a well-placed tip that eventually led the FBI to Dugard and the arrest of her alleged captor, Philip Garrido. It was intuition.

"My police intuition was kicking in, but I would say it's more of a mother's intuition," Allison Jacobs, a police officer with the University of California, Berkeley, recently told Anderson Cooper...


color added by me

[RainyNiteNTx]

Morning Postie - yeah, I watched a Dateline special the other night where the detective said he went with a hunch he had (and ended up solving the case)...happens all the time. You are correct that Christine said she knew it in her gut (and had since he went missing) that Nicholas was a victim of foul play. She posted that on an Etsy forum on February 19th.

[Postergeist]

Mornin' Rainy!

(boy was it rainy here yesterday- so I didn't go to the Butterbean Festival and we didn't get the ribs smoked)

hey- I taped that Dateline special- had to leave to get groceries but had watched the first 30 min. and thought I needed to be sure to see the rest of it. (that was the one where the lady had been attacked in her home & some thought she was lying?)

I'm glad you have good recall on what Christine had said- it's been so long and it is just a sad, sorry thing all around it seems.

But she changed her mind later on with what her gut told her, so...

I think it's going to be one in another long list of unsolved mysteries, without someone coming forward or a confession- this will never be resolved. imo

[RainyNiteNTx]

Mornin' Rainy!

(boy was it rainy here yesterday- so I didn't go to the Butterbean Festival and we didn't get the ribs smoked)

hey- I taped that Dateline special- had to leave to get groceries but had watched the first 30 min. and thought I needed to be sure to see the rest of it. (that was the one where the lady had been attacked in her home & some thought she was lying?)

I'm glad you have good recall on what Christine had said- it's been so long and it is just a sad, sorry thing all around it seems.

But she changed her mind later on with what her gut told her, so...

I think it's going to be one in another long list of unsolved mysteries, without someone coming forward or a confession- this will never be resolved. imo

Yes - that was the one. It took a detective newly assigned to the case to go back and really start looking at things. I've found that to be the common denominator in most unsolved cases. Just one person willing to start from scratch and really look at things. I don't believe NF's case ever had that. We had the Sarge scratching his head saying he either left or was the victim of foul play (well yeah) and you had LE erasing his name off the board once his "secret life" was exposed. I've said it before and I'll say it forever - if his secret life was what "some" say it is, then that would give even more credence to Nicholas being a victim of foul play, i.e. Jeremy Scully. IMO

[elf999]

Morning Postie - yeah, I watched a Dateline special the other night where the detective said he went with a hunch he had (and ended up solving the case)...happens all the time. You are correct that Christine said she knew it in her gut (and had since he went missing) that Nicholas was a victim of foul play. She posted that on an Etsy forum on February 19th.

Yes gut feelings are good at first but you do have to figure out what is causing them.

Yes at first many people had a suspicious feeling about Christine because she seemed too self concerned, and she was trying to make a perfect marriage, maybe too perfect...

Eventually however, it did become known her marriage was not perfect and there were reasons for her behavior.

There also has never been shown to be any motive for Christine to kill Nicholas. Plus she had a very limited window of opportunity to do away with him, dispose of his body in a manner so no one would find it, dispose of his car, and make it home and call the police, all while pregnant, with 2 kids in tow.

Plus there has never been any evidence that Christine had an affair prior to Nicholas's disappearance, and there has been no evidence that she was with anyone the night he disappeared that might have helped her dispose of the body.

It has been shown sufficiently to many people that Nicholas was having affairs on the side before he disappeared, many of us have seen the evidence (web sites that still exist where he advertised to meet people) and know credible people who have spoken directly to people who have actually met Nicholas in his secret life when he was posing as another person. Those who choose to believe this evidence do not find it suspicious that Christine has moved on and gotten married again.

So for those who have a "hinkey" feeling, maybe it is time to examine that feeling for what it actually might be. Maybe that gut feeling first occurred because of the way Christine acted when Nicholas first disappeared, a bit too self concerned, a little odd. However, there was a good reason for this, her marriage was not good, even though she was trying to believe it was "perfect"... She was not happy, she was needy, and Nicholas was not happy either. Theirs was a relationship that had troubles, and the troubles showed in the way Christine acted. This I think got people suspicious at first. But it has been shown why she acted as she did.

So after seeing what caused the suspicious feelings, the true nature of Nicholas and Christine's relationship, and the fact that there is nothing tying Christine to Nicholas's disappearance, no motive, the extreme difficulty of her killing him in the small window of opportunity she had, no signs of an accomplice, no large insurance policy, no affair, then maybe it's time for those suspicions to be laid to rest, and other aspects of the disappearance be focused on in order to really help to find Nicholas.


Back to lurking mode.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi Elf...I have come short of thinking CF killed Nicholas, and you won't find one post where I have stated that. However, I have always maintained that Christine knew much more than what she acted like she knew. SO with your post in mind....

Are you saying that Christine's marriage was not what she portrayed it to be to all of the media, Etsy, her friends, etc? Is this why people wondered about the coffee in bed and the cookie baking story? Were those things Christine simply wanted yet never really happened except in her mind? If so, I can understand why she came across suspicious.

On the other hand, we have proof that Nicholas designed special labels for her spices, called her Bella, built a special sewing room for her, had pictures of his kids' artwork on his wall at work, and probably other things we don't even know about.

This is where it gets confusing, at least to me. Even if we put aside what Christine said about how wondeful their love and life was, we know the things Nicholas did for her that I mentioned above.

So were they both miserable people in an unhappy marriage, or were they just like most couples who have their good days and bad days?

Do you think Nicholas just walked off?

[RainyNiteNTx]

If Nicholas had been leading a secret life for years to the extent it has been reported, why leave that particular night? He had the flu the previous week-end (per his best friends), had just been promoted (per Christine), and nothing seemed different about him that day at work (per his coworkers). So why that night?

[Cheri_G]

Snipped For Bandwith

The bottom line is simple; Christine is innocent until proven guilty. Very important.

Next; there is not one shred of evidenceto think Christine did ie.

Next; anyone having a gut feeling that she killed her husband is nonsense.

Next; and most importantly, he has not been found dead.

Last; people move everyday. It doesn't mean they killed someone. Thank goodness we have a judicial process in this country or we'd be seeing another example of the Salem Witch Trials.

I can't believe people are still posting about this case when there hasn't been any news in months and months. Nothing has changed.

I hope Nicholas is found safe. :rose:

MOO

The fact that Christine is innocent until proven guilty does not mean that the possibility she could have been involved or knows more than she has said can't, or shouldn't be explored.

As you said there isn't one shred of evidence (that has been released by LE) that points to.... well anything... leaving all possibilities open at the moment.

If you don't feel this case is worth discussing then by all means don't discuss it. There are plenty of other discussions on this board. Maybe you can find one that you think is worth your while to participate in.

[Cheri_G]

He left, she didn't leave him, and there is not one credible reason to believe she had anything to do with his disappearance.

You can't believe she remarried and left the state ALREADY? How long do you think is suitable to wait for a husband that is GONE?? Forever?

We don't know what happened to him, and Christine needs to move on with her life. I don't know if HIS parent's are going to get to see the grandkids or not. Maybe yes, maybe no. I do know it's none of our business, and I have bigger things to worry about than their business.

Christine has had more than her deserved share of bashing, accusations, and attacks by people on message boards. How anyone thinks their "gut" is a barometer for the truth and/or guilt or innocence is beyond me. IMO

MOO

For Nicholas :rose:

He left? What evidence do you have of this? He is gone yes, but we don't know whether or not he left of his own free will or if something to happened to him.

[Postergeist]

There are plenty of other discussions on this board. Maybe you can find one that you think is worth your while to participate in.

<snipped>

Mornin' Cheri- question for you and any of the other long-timers here-

is this a somewhat typical phenomena- posters that become members to a site and only discuss the one case (maybe due to ties to the person missing, or ties to the MP's family?) and then that is the ONLY case that they ever post on?

I noticed that with 2 different posters on this thread.

Reading your post made me wonder why other posters never venture out and participate in any other forum/case/thread topic.

[aproudmom]

I never even heard of this case..but go with your gut it is usually right as I have seen...

[Cheri_G]

<snipped>

Mornin' Cheri- question for you and any of the other long-timers here-

is this a somewhat typical phenomena- posters that become members to a site and only discuss the one case (maybe due to ties to the person missing, or ties to the MP's family?) and then that is the ONLY case that they ever post on?

I noticed that with 2 different posters on this thread.

Reading your post made me wonder why other posters never venture out and participate in any other forum/case/thread topic.

Mornin' Postie,

I think that sometimes a particular case will draw a persons interest more than other cases for whatever reason. They may read up on other cases but maybe not participate in them because they don't have strong opinions on them or aren't as interested in them.

I also think that with these holiday threads people are more apt to check out discussions that they had little or no interest in before or perhaps didn't even know about and sometimes post even though they hadn't before and probably won't again when the forums are reopened in their normal places and they go back to the specific forums that do interest them.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Yes gut feelings are good at first but you do have to figure out what is causing them.

Yes at first many people had a suspicious feeling about Christine because she seemed too self concerned, and she was trying to make a perfect marriage, maybe too perfect...

Eventually however, it did become known her marriage was not perfect and there were reasons for her behavior.

There also has never been shown to be any motive for Christine to kill Nicholas. Plus she had a very limited window of opportunity to do away with him, dispose of his body in a manner so no one would find it, dispose of his car, and make it home and call the police, all while pregnant, with 2 kids in tow.

Plus there has never been any evidence that Christine had an affair prior to Nicholas's disappearance, and there has been no evidence that she was with anyone the night he disappeared that might have helped her dispose of the body.

It has been shown sufficiently to many people that Nicholas was having affairs on the side before he disappeared, many of us have seen the evidence (web sites that still exist where he advertised to meet people) and know credible people who have spoken directly to people who have actually met Nicholas in his secret life when he was posing as another person. Those who choose to believe this evidence do not find it suspicious that Christine has moved on and gotten married again.

So for those who have a "hinkey" feeling, maybe it is time to examine that feeling for what it actually might be. Maybe that gut feeling first occurred because of the way Christine acted when Nicholas first disappeared, a bit too self concerned, a little odd. However, there was a good reason for this, her marriage was not good, even though she was trying to believe it was "perfect"... She was not happy, she was needy, and Nicholas was not happy either. Theirs was a relationship that had troubles, and the troubles showed in the way Christine acted. This I think got people suspicious at first. But it has been shown why she acted as she did.

So after seeing what caused the suspicious feelings, the true nature of Nicholas and Christine's relationship, and the fact that there is nothing tying Christine to Nicholas's disappearance, no motive, the extreme difficulty of her killing him in the small window of opportunity she had, no signs of an accomplice, no large insurance policy, no affair, then maybe it's time for those suspicions to be laid to rest, and other aspects of the disappearance be focused on in order to really help to find Nicholas.


Back to lurking mode.

Do you have a theory for the Francisco's departure from Mars Hill a few days before Nicholoas' disappearance? TIA

[2-B]

Do you also frequent the Ray Gricar thread and tell them you can't believe they are still posting about him even though there hasn't been any news? Or the Trenton Duckett thread, or the Christine Sheddy thread, or the Louetta Harrelson/Peggy Merimon thread? Just wondering.

Thank you, Rainy. As a Gricar case follower, I was just going to post something similar to what you've said here.

Lulu says, "Nothing has changed."

Sometimes nothing changes if nobody cares enough about the missing to keep their stories alive.

I check in on Nicholas regularly, too.

For me, this board isn't about following the latest "hot news." Some cases get under the skin and resonate, and you can't forget those missing people, no matter how long they've been gone.

Kudos to those of you who are keeping the flame going for Nick. We do the same for Ray, unapologetically.

[Musterion]

Snipped For Bandwith
The bottom line is simple; Christine is innocent until proven guilty. Very important.
MOO

Hi lulu,

Your terminology is a legal term.

It refers to legal guilt not factual guilt. Meaning, a person can be acquitted of a crime, found not guilty by a jury, and factually still have committed the crime.

We have freedom of speech, as individuals, living in this society. We have the right to discuss, share ideas without censorship.

We, here, are not assessing this situation in a court of law. We are here, as private citizens, discussing a young man's disappearance.

When and if Christine ever sits in a court room accused of having anything to do with Nicholas' disappearance she would, then, have the presumption of innocence, in that courtroom, with that judge, with that jury.

Not in the public sphere, though. Her husband disappeared and has not been found. There is no indication that he left on his own. To many that appears suspicious.

Most of us do and have given Christine the benefit of the doubt. We've walked this out since Day One. We don't discuss and conclude things flippantly. We take this seriously.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

<snipped>

Mornin' Cheri- question for you and any of the other long-timers here-

is this a somewhat typical phenomena- posters that become members to a site and only discuss the one case (maybe due to ties to the person missing, or ties to the MP's family?) and then that is the ONLY case that they ever post on?

I noticed that with 2 different posters on this thread.

Reading your post made me wonder why other posters never venture out and participate in any other forum/case/thread topic.

Since I am one of the posters who rarely post on other topics I'll let you know my reason. I live in Seattle. I move in the areas that we talk about. When this case first happened I didn't believe that he was dead for many reason connected to other things I have seen and read about in my city. A man leaving working and driving to a Cosco vanishing just seemed strange. When I drove some of the roads he might have drove I was watching for places a car could have gone off the road. Then the car was found with no damage, no blood, no evidence of anything.

So yes this is the only one that really catches my attention. I also know that IF he is dead this area as I have said doesn't give up it's secrets easily. There are people known dead but their bodies have never been found. I have family 2 of them who went out on the Sound in bad weather, one body was found far up the way and the other never has been. Does this mean that the one who wasn't found killed the other? No just that it was washed even further away.

There have been other missing person case that I would have followed but no one paid any attention to them. The man who walked away from his hotel in SeaTac comes to mind but no one even noticed that one. Lots of cases never make these boards.

I very much want Nicholas found so that everyone can let it go.

Comment on why that night. I have always thought that it was because it was Valentines eve and that someone Nicholas was seeing may have said it is now or never and he moved on with them. That is just a gut feeling because of the date.

[Cheri_G]

Since I am one of the posters who rarely post on other topics I'll let you know my reason. I live in Seattle. I move in the areas that we talk about. When this case first happened I didn't believe that he was dead for many reason connected to other things I have seen and read about in my city. A man leaving working and driving to a Cosco vanishing just seemed strange. When I drove some of the roads he might have drove I was watching for places a car could have gone off the road. Then the car was found with no damage, no blood, no evidence of anything.

So yes this is the only one that really catches my attention. I also know that IF he is dead this area as I have said doesn't give up it's secrets easily. There are people known dead but their bodies have never been found. I have family 2 of them who went out on the Sound in bad weather, one body was found far up the way and the other never has been. Does this mean that the one who wasn't found killed the other? No just that it was washed even further away.

There have been other missing person case that I would have followed but no one paid any attention to them. The man who walked away from his hotel in SeaTac comes to mind but no one even noticed that one. Lots of cases never make these boards.

I very much want Nicholas found so that everyone can let it go.

Comment on why that night. I have always thought that it was because it was Valentines eve and that someone Nicholas was seeing may have said it is now or never and he moved on with them. That is just a gut feeling because of the date.

I'm sorry about your loss, SD. Have you considered looking into getting the details of your still missing family member entered onto NamUs?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Thank you, Rainy. As a Gricar case follower, I was just going to post something similar to what you've said here.

Lulu says, "Nothing has changed."

Sometimes nothing changes if nobody cares enough about the missing to keep their stories alive.

I check in on Nicholas regularly, too.

For me, this board isn't about following the latest "hot news." Some cases get under the skin and resonate, and you can't forget those missing people, no matter how long they've been gone.

Kudos to those of you who are keeping the flame going for Nick. We do the same for Ray, unapologetically.

Thanks so much! There are a few of us who try to keep this thread going despite attempts by some to have Nick's forum closed (they did succeed at one point). I've never understood why it is an issue for some people on here - all they have to do is skip this particular forum.

I check often on Ray's thread to see if he has been found. I applaud all of you who keep on keeping on. Maybe some day there will be answers for both of these guys.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I'm sorry about your loss, SD. Have you considered looking into getting the details of your still missing family member entered onto NamUs?

The founder of Porchlight, Lauran has some very old cases listed and she still tries to get resolution on those. Maybe see if SD could give her more information so her family member could be listed would be a good idea also. (sorry o/t)

[2-B]

Thanks so much! There are a few of us who try to keep this thread going despite attempts by some to have Nick's forum closed (they did succeed at one point). I've never understood why it is an issue for some people on here - all they have to do is skip this particular forum.

I check often on Ray's thread to see if he has been found. I applaud all of you who keep on keeping on. Maybe some day there will be answers for both of these guys.

Thanks, Rainy. IMO, it is vital for cases no longer in the media spotlight to have additional support beyond what LE can provide. In Nick's case, particularly, his former wife has moved on with her life and isn't pushing for answers.

So many times cases get solved because of one little tip from the public. Discussions like these do help keep people long missing in the minds of the public. Far more people view the discussions than actually contribute posts--people are reading what gets said on these cases, and that means the public is more aware than they would be if they relied only on media releases.

I'm grateful to In Session for providing a place where those interested in various cases can gather and discuss!

[Musterion]

Yes gut feelings are good at first but you do have to figure out what is causing them.

Yes at first many people had a suspicious feeling about Christine because she seemed too self concerned, and she was trying to make a perfect marriage, maybe too perfect...

Eventually however, it did become known her marriage was not perfect and there were reasons for her behavior.

There also has never been shown to be any motive for Christine to kill Nicholas. Plus she had a very limited window of opportunity to do away with him, dispose of his body in a manner so no one would find it, dispose of his car, and make it home and call the police, all while pregnant, with 2 kids in tow.

Plus there has never been any evidence that Christine had an affair prior to Nicholas's disappearance, and there has been no evidence that she was with anyone the night he disappeared that might have helped her dispose of the body.

It has been shown sufficiently to many people that Nicholas was having affairs on the side before he disappeared, many of us have seen the evidence (web sites that still exist where he advertised to meet people) and know credible people who have spoken directly to people who have actually met Nicholas in his secret life when he was posing as another person. Those who choose to believe this evidence do not find it suspicious that Christine has moved on and gotten married again.

So for those who have a "hinkey" feeling, maybe it is time to examine that feeling for what it actually might be. Maybe that gut feeling first occurred because of the way Christine acted when Nicholas first disappeared, a bit too self concerned, a little odd. However, there was a good reason for this, her marriage was not good, even though she was trying to believe it was "perfect"... She was not happy, she was needy, and Nicholas was not happy either. Theirs was a relationship that had troubles, and the troubles showed in the way Christine acted. This I think got people suspicious at first. But it has been shown why she acted as she did.

So after seeing what caused the suspicious feelings, the true nature of Nicholas and Christine's relationship, and the fact that there is nothing tying Christine to Nicholas's disappearance, no motive, the extreme difficulty of her killing him in the small window of opportunity she had, no signs of an accomplice, no large insurance policy, no affair, then maybe it's time for those suspicions to be laid to rest, and other aspects of the disappearance be focused on in order to really help to find Nicholas.


Back to lurking mode.

(Bolding Mine)

Hi elf,

I don't understand why anyone comes on this thread or any other, expounds their theory (which is fine), but then says, 'oh I'm going to just dump this here and refuse to dialogue'. Elf, come on, you said a lot in this post and if we (and hopefully Nicholas) are worth your time to post with (mostly AT), then don't we deserve an answer to our questions about your statements and questions. It is maddening.

Having said that. If you decide to answer this I would be interested in some clarification. First, what it seems like you are saying is that Christine lied to the media, her friends, the Etsy community, AND especially LE. Is that what I'm hearing you say? She knew, in reality, that there were problems and issues in her marriage, yet she lied to everyone?

Thank you, if you decide to answer.

IMO.
M.

[Shelby1]

Thank you, Rainy. As a Gricar case follower, I was just going to post something similar to what you've said here.

Lulu says, "Nothing has changed."

Sometimes nothing changes if nobody cares enough about the missing to keep their stories alive.

I check in on Nicholas regularly, too.

For me, this board isn't about following the latest "hot news." Some cases get under the skin and resonate, and you can't forget those missing people, no matter how long they've been gone.

Kudos to those of you who are keeping the flame going for Nick. We do the same for Ray, unapologetically.



I couldn't have said this better myself :smile:

[Musterion]

Since I am one of the posters who rarely post on other topics I'll let you know my reason. I live in Seattle. I move in the areas that we talk about. When this case first happened I didn't believe that he was dead for many reason connected to other things I have seen and read about in my city. A man leaving working and driving to a Cosco vanishing just seemed strange. When I drove some of the roads he might have drove I was watching for places a car could have gone off the road. Then the car was found with no damage, no blood, no evidence of anything.

So yes this is the only one that really catches my attention. I also know that IF he is dead this area as I have said doesn't give up it's secrets easily. There are people known dead but their bodies have never been found. I have family 2 of them who went out on the Sound in bad weather, one body was found far up the way and the other never has been. Does this mean that the one who wasn't found killed the other? No just that it was washed even further away.

There have been other missing person case that I would have followed but no one paid any attention to them. The man who walked away from his hotel in SeaTac comes to mind but no one even noticed that one. Lots of cases never make these boards.

I very much want Nicholas found so that everyone can let it go.

Comment on why that night. I have always thought that it was because it was Valentines eve and that someone Nicholas was seeing may have said it is now or never and he moved on with them. That is just a gut feeling because of the date.

I'm so sorry, SD. :sad: What a tragedy.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Thanks, Rainy. IMO, it is vital for cases no longer in the media spotlight to have additional support beyond what LE can provide. In Nick's case, particularly, his former wife has moved on with her life and isn't pushing for answers.

So many times cases get solved because of one little tip from the public. Discussions like these do help keep people long missing in the minds of the public. Far more people view the discussions than actually contribute posts--people are reading what gets said on these cases, and that means the public is more aware than they would be if they relied only on media releases.

I'm grateful to In Session for providing a place where those interested in various cases can gather and discuss!

Thank you for saying all of what you have said.

I believe you are right. I just found a Twitter, yesterday, where some random person spent all night reading up on Nicholas' case, just because of the stirred up interest lately.

Maybe that one person will lead to more people investigating, researching and, suddenly, a clue will appear.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Thanks, Rainy. IMO, it is vital for cases no longer in the media spotlight to have additional support beyond what LE can provide. In Nick's case, particularly, his former wife has moved on with her life and isn't pushing for answers.

So many times cases get solved because of one little tip from the public. Discussions like these do help keep people long missing in the minds of the public. Far more people view the discussions than actually contribute posts--people are reading what gets said on these cases, and that means the public is more aware than they would be if they relied only on media releases.

I'm grateful to In Session for providing a place where those interested in various cases can gather and discuss!


I feel the exact same way. If in some small way, the discussion sparks someone's memory or makes them remember that Nicholas and Ray are still missing (and others being posted about), then we have contributed, albeit very small. I'm also grateful for the opportunity to discuss this here at IS as I think this forum has a large following.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Thank you for saying all of what you have said.

I believe you are right. I just found a Twitter, yesterday, where some random person spent all night reading up on Nicholas' case, just because of the stirred up interest lately.

Maybe that one person will lead to more people investigating, researching and, suddenly, a clue will appear.

IMO.
M.

It probably happens more than we know M. Thats why I think it is crucial to keep the dialogue open.

[2-B]

Thank you for saying all of what you have said.

I believe you are right. I just found a Twitter, yesterday, where some random person spent all night reading up on Nicholas' case, just because of the stirred up interest lately.

Maybe that one person will lead to more people investigating, researching and, suddenly, a clue will appear.

IMO.
M.

I think that's exactly what we all hope for, "we" meaning those of us who largely devote our time to a case others might see as "old news." Stirring up interest. Getting research going. Having someone stumble on one little thing that hadn't been noticed before or noticing some "old" thing in a new way--that's what it takes to get these cold cases moving again and get them solved!

I don't want to derail this thread from Nick-focused discussion, but it's an interesting issue that's been raised here, since there's sometimes a nudge to back burner (or worse yet, close down) discussion of older cases. These are the ones that need attention the most because they are not getting the media spotlight!!

I know there are posters on every crime message board who travel from case to case the way the media tend to, shifting their interests and following whatever the hottest story is at the moment. I don't see anything wrong with that, if that's what someone wants to do.

But there's also something to be said for depth as opposed to breadth. Researching a case inside and out--including all the issues related to the case--is for me a better way to contribute than knowing a little about a lot of cases.

In the investigative world, it's been those "loco," "rogue" detectives who felt the same way who have often been the keys to getting long unsolved cases moved into the solved columns. I don't know if we'll ever be able to help do the same sitting behind our computer screens and our keyboards, but on the off chance that we can, I don't see that we're doing anyone any harm by obsessing over these otherwise orphan cases! My opinion only, of course.

Now returning you to more Nicholas-centered discussion. . . .

[Musterion]

I feel the exact same way. If in some small way, the discussion sparks someone's memory or makes them remember that Nicholas and Ray are still missing (and others being posted about), then we have contributed, albeit very small. I'm also grateful for the opportunity to discuss this here at IS as I think this forum has a large following.

I'm grateful, too, Rainy. I think IS does have a large following, as well.

If 'views' of Nicholas' thread are any indication of interest about him (on any given day), I would say that there are many interested in what happened to this young father.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I think that's exactly what we all hope for, "we" meaning those of us who largely devote our time to a case others might see as "old news." Stirring up interest. Getting research going. Having someone stumble on one little thing that hadn't been noticed before or noticing some "old" thing in a new way--that's what it takes to get these cold cases moving again and get them solved!

I don't want to derail this thread from Nick-focused discussion, but it's an interesting issue that's been raised here, since there's sometimes a nudge to back burner (or worse yet, close down) discussion of older cases. These are the ones that need attention the most because they are not getting the media spotlight!!

I know there are posters on every crime message board who travel from case to case the way the media tend to, shifting their interests and following whatever the hottest story is at the moment. I don't see anything wrong with that, if that's what someone wants to do.

But there's also something to be said for depth as opposed to breadth. Researching a case inside and out--including all the issues related to the case--is for me a better way to contribute than knowing a little about a lot of cases.

In the investigative world, it's been those "loco," "rogue" detectives who felt the same way who have often been the keys to getting long unsolved cases moved into the solved columns. I don't know if we'll ever be able to help do the same sitting behind our computer screens and our keyboards, but on the off chance that we can, I don't see that we're doing anyone any harm by obsessing over these otherwise orphan cases! My opinion only, of course.

Now returning you to more Nicholas-centered discussion. . . .

I agree!

As SD was saying above, there are many cases that get no attention. If one person just kept posting about that MP and making fliers, hanging those fliers, inquiring with LE about the case, that may be all it takes to find that person. No matter how old or cold the case is!

If one person were diligent, every day, about one MP, we may just be able to get resolutions to so many cases.

IMO.
M.

[porchlight]

It is a fine line we walk when discussing missing persons cases (uid cases are a little safer actually) We do have freedom of speech, but that speech is not unlimited. We still have libel and slander laws (thank goodness for those of us on the receiving end of the belligerent trolls who reside in internet space) and there is still common decency. It is that fine line between speculation and accusation that we must all walk. When Jaycee Duggard was recently freed, my first thought was for her poor stepfather. ..a man vilified, accused, suspected and convicted in the court of public opinion for harming Jaycee. He has lived with that additional burden, adding to the burden of actually seeing her abducted, and added to the burden of living life without Jaycee. It is a wonder the man survived at all. He was truly liberated that day as well, from an completely undeserved life sentence of condemnation from people who knew NOTHING at all. So tread lightly, please, when speculating about anyone else's involvement in any missing person's case. If we knew the answers, they wouldn't be missing anymore...

[porchlight]

Silver Dove, I am so sorry to read about your missing family member. I would be happy to showcase their story on porchlight if you would like.

[Musterion]

It is a fine line we walk when discussing missing persons cases (uid cases are a little safer actually) We do have freedom of speech, but that speech is not unlimited. We still have libel and slander laws (thank goodness for those of us on the receiving end of the belligerent trolls who reside in internet space) and there is still common decency. It is that fine line between speculation and accusation that we must all walk. When Jaycee Duggard was recently freed, my first thought was for her poor stepfather. ..a man vilified, accused, suspected and convicted in the court of public opinion for harming Jaycee. He has lived with that additional burden, adding to the burden of actually seeing her abducted, and added to the burden of living life without Jaycee. It is a wonder the man survived at all. He was truly liberated that day as well, from an completely undeserved life sentence of condemnation from people who knew NOTHING at all. So tread lightly, please, when speculating about anyone else's involvement in any missing person's case. If we knew the answers, they wouldn't be missing anymore...

I agree, Porchlight. Freedom of speech is limited.

As someone who has had public opinion cast upon her with no way to refute the lies and accusations, I understand what you are saying. I was innocent of what was said about me and it hurt to hear, in court, outside of court, people who I thought were friends, who said they loved me, say the things they did which were against me. And, to have complete strangers believe lies and voice their disdain toward me, well, not a great feeling.

However, in this case, I cannot say that there are any of us, (who have stayed the long haul), who are hanging in here today, have come out and in any way, shape or form, libeled or slandered Nicholas' ex wife.

We have watched, been in communication with, seen the inconsistencies of Nicholas' ex wife. None of us take what we say and how we investigate lightly where she is concerned.

As for Jaycee's step father, a man I believe who has integrity. He recently said this:

"Reflecting on the rediscovery of his stepdaughter, Probyn said it never bothered him that he was suspected by many people of being involved in the kidnapping and that he was gratified the descriptions he gave of the car used in the kidnapping and the appearance of Nancy Garrido were "dead on."

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_13279493

IMO.
M.

[porchlight]

However, in this case, I cannot say that there are any of us, (who have stayed the long haul), who are hanging in here today, have come out and in any way, shape or form, libeled or slandered Nicholas' ex wife.

I hope I didn't imply I thought any of you had. That was not my intention.

I was truly glad to hear that Mr. Probyn did not suffer behind the accusations. That does not exactly jive with what I usually hear over the years. Usually people are disturbed and deeply hurt by accusations that are unfounded. All too often marriages crumble, businesses or employment opportunities dry up and friendships dissolve.

[SilverDove]

Silver Dove, I am so sorry to read about your missing family member. I would be happy to showcase their story on porchlight if you would like.

Thank you so much but it was over 30 years ago and there is close to no chance that he didn't drown and his body was washed out to sea. Sad but no amount of anything will cause the sea to give up her secrets.

To everyone who commented thank you.

[Musterion]

Thank you so much but it was over 30 years ago and there is close to no chance that he didn't drown and his body was washed out to sea. Sad but no amount of anything will cause the sea to give up her secrets.

To everyone who commented thank you.

Oh, SD, it must still hurt like it was yesterday. I'm sorry, my fellow poster.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

If Nicholas had been leading a secret life for years to the extent it has been reported, why leave that particular night? He had the flu the previous week-end (per his best friends), had just been promoted (per Christine), and nothing seemed different about him that day at work (per his coworkers). So why that night?

Okay. Back on track, Rainy!

Why that night?

It is an intriguing, even romantic, thought that is was Valentine's Eve. I have thought that, myself, and run with it. Lovers demanding, "leave them, or else".

But, looking over the context of the facts. Does it mean anything?

It might have meant something to Christine. If she knew Nicholas could have been betraying her???

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

It is a fine line we walk when discussing missing persons cases (uid cases are a little safer actually) We do have freedom of speech, but that speech is not unlimited. We still have libel and slander laws (thank goodness for those of us on the receiving end of the belligerent trolls who reside in internet space) and there is still common decency. It is that fine line between speculation and accusation that we must all walk. When Jaycee Duggard was recently freed, my first thought was for her poor stepfather. ..a man vilified, accused, suspected and convicted in the court of public opinion for harming Jaycee. He has lived with that additional burden, adding to the burden of actually seeing her abducted, and added to the burden of living life without Jaycee. It is a wonder the man survived at all. He was truly liberated that day as well, from an completely undeserved life sentence of condemnation from people who knew NOTHING at all. So tread lightly, please, when speculating about anyone else's involvement in any missing person's case. If we knew the answers, they wouldn't be missing anymore...

The things that have been said on the internet about Nicholas are disturbing. Everything about him has been questioned - his honesty, his integrity, and his sexuality, and he is not here to defend himself. His reputation is basically ruined. Its like he never did anything good in his life, but was just the worst of the worst of humanity. I've never understood it.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Okay. Back on track, Rainy!

Why that night?

It is an intriguing, even romantic, thought that is was Valentine's Eve. I have thought that, myself, and run with it. Lovers demanding, "leave them, or else".

But, looking over the context of the facts. Does it mean anything?

It might have meant something to Christine. If she knew Nicholas could have been betraying her???

IMO.
M.

I never really thought she knew anything. At least that is the way things were initially portrayed - that she was blindsided. But if you reread Elf's post, and assuming Elf knows, it now makes me wonder if Christine knew all along that things were not right in their marriage and their life. JMO

[Danette44]

Morning Postie - yeah, I watched a Dateline special the other night where the detective said he went with a hunch he had (and ended up solving the case)...happens all the time. You are correct that Christine said she knew it in her gut (and had since he went missing) that Nicholas was a victim of foul play. She posted that on an Etsy forum on February 19th.


G'Morning Rainy

Her "gut", also stated he was near or in water!

[RainyNiteNTx]

G'Morning Rainy

Her "gut", also stated he was near or in water!

Hey Danette :)
Yes you're right - she did state that she felt he was in or near water. That was stated pretty early on, wasn't it?

[n/t]

Hey friends,

One thing that keeps bothering me is Nick's family lack of concern. There are only 2 possible scenarios that I can think of:

1) They know he's ok.
2) They're waiting on LE to solve the case.

I find it very unusual that they're not actively searching for him. No one year anniversary interviews or pleas. No actions to do more searches in Seatac...etc etc etc.

I find that very odd. I know that if it was one of my loved ones who went missing without a trace regardless of age, I'd do everything in my power to keep the awareness going. That's not happening here in Nick's case.

Why?

[RainyNiteNTx]

If we go back to the beginning, and go by Christine's feeling that Nicholas was in or near water, I wonder why TES was never called in, or why there were no searches by LE in water. I'm assuming Christine was going with a wife's intuition and I understand she had no concrete proof, but as discussed earlier, all it takes sometimes is a hunch. JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hey friends,

One thing that keeps bothering me is Nick's family lack of concern. There are only 2 possible scenarios that I can think of:

1) They know he's ok.
2) They're waiting on LE to solve the case.

I find it very unusual that they're not actively searching for him. No one year anniversary interviews or pleas. No actions to do more searches in Seatac...etc etc etc.

I find that very odd. I know that if it was one of my loved ones who went missing without a trace regardless of age, I'd do everything in my power to keep the awareness going. That's not happening here in Nick's case.

Why?

Morning n/t - I would only be speculating in my answer, but perhaps they are looking - maybe they have hired a private investigator - maybe they dedicated their church service to finding Nicholas on the one year anniversary of his missing. Maybe they did a local interview in their hometown. I do remember NF's mother being very concerned about him being persecuted (and seems she was right), so anything they are doing may be behind the scenes. I have no idea.

Now I'm off to work - guess that is why it is called LABOR day.

[n/t]

If we go back to the beginning, and go by Christine's feeling that Nicholas was in or near water, I wonder why TES was never called in, or why there were no searches by LE in water. I'm assuming Christine was going with a wife's intuition and I understand she had no concrete proof, but as discussed earlier, all it takes sometimes is a hunch. JMO

Yah but she also said he may be sipping margaritas in Mexico. Another clue she wasn't taking his disappearance seriously. Who would say something like that of their supposed love of their life, best husband in the world?

[n/t]

Morning n/t - I would only be speculating in my answer, but perhaps they are looking - maybe they have hired a private investigator - maybe they dedicated their church service to finding Nicholas on the one year anniversary of his missing. Maybe they did a local interview in their hometown. I do remember NF's mother being very concerned about him being persecuted (and seems she was right), so anything they are doing may be behind the scenes. I have no idea.

Now I'm off to work - guess that is why it is called LABOR day.

Maybe. I hope you're right. If he truly met with foul play he deserves justice.

Sorry you have to work.:thumbdown:

[SilverDove]

The things that have been said on the internet about Nicholas are disturbing. Everything about him has been questioned - his honesty, his integrity, and his sexuality, and he is not here to defend himself. His reputation is basically ruined. Its like he never did anything good in his life, but was just the worst of the worst of humanity. I've never understood it.

In all of the LE scenarios there seems to be a 50/50 chance that he walked away or that he met with foul play. Disturbing things have been said about Christine and it seems that the only way she could defend herself is to open every little detail of her life to the internet and even then it would just be said that she is lying. In fact everything she says is dismissed as lying other then maybe that he is by water.

On the other hand if he did walk away then some or even all of the disturbing things about that have been said about him could be true. If he just walked away and is in a new life then he really doesn't have much in the way of honesty and integrity.

If we are all busy searching in lakes and under bushes he could just walk by and we would never notice.

I think until we know for sure what happened then his life has to be looked at for clues and just as everything that Christine does or says has to be looked at.

BTW Personally none of the things we have found to me has ruined his reputation other then that he wasn't honest with his wife. If he walked away then he ruined his own reputation. If he died by someone he met on the internt then again it was his life choices that caused his death. These need to be looked at in the hopes of finding a clue, too.

[SilverDove]

If we go back to the beginning, and go by Christine's feeling that Nicholas was in or near water, I wonder why TES was never called in, or why there were no searches by LE in water. I'm assuming Christine was going with a wife's intuition and I understand she had no concrete proof, but as discussed earlier, all it takes sometimes is a hunch. JMO

TES is really just a search and rescue group from what I have read they do a great job at finding lost people and a fair job of getting the word out about missing but Washington and King County also has great groups like this they just don't seek the spot light. As it was there really wasn't any real place to look using search and rescue. The area that Nicholas was just too large. The "lakes" you are talking about are more like puddles some of which even dry up in the summer. There are hundred of green belts from Seattle to Tukwilla where the car was found. I really don't see where TES could have done anything more then what was done. TES isn't some magic group that finds every person. In fact I notice a lot of missing cases they have on their site weren't even solved by them.

KC Search and Rescue go out all the time searching and are truly wonderful and unsung heroes. Bring back many who have been lost. If there had been a place to search they would have gladly gone and searched it inch by inch.

It is easy to say drag the lakes and search the green belts until you really see how large the area truly is.

[RainyNiteNTx]

TES is really just a search and rescue group from what I have read they do a great job at finding lost people and a fair job of getting the word out about missing but Washington and King County also has great groups like this they just don't seek the spot light. As it was there really wasn't any real place to look using search and rescue. The area that Nicholas was just too large. The "lakes" you are talking about are more like puddles some of which even dry up in the summer. There are hundred of green belts from Seattle to Tukwilla where the car was found. I really don't see where TES could have done anything more then what was done. TES isn't some magic group that finds every person. In fact I notice a lot of missing cases they have on their site weren't even solved by them.

KC Search and Rescue go out all the time searching and are truly wonderful and unsung heroes. Bring back many who have been lost. If there had been a place to search they would have gladly gone and searched it inch by inch.

It is easy to say drag the lakes and search the green belts until you really see how large the area truly is.

For the record, I have the highest respect for any person in search and rescue. I don't care whether they have the latest and greatest equipment with a sophisticated organization or those who pull on tshirts in the middle of the night as volunteers.

Christine is the one who asked the name of the searching company in Texas. Maybe she didn't know about King County Search and Rescue - I have no way to know. But since she is the one who brought them up, that is why I mention them SD - not to plug them or think they perform magic.

[Cheri_G]

TES is really just a search and rescue group from what I have read they do a great job at finding lost people and a fair job of getting the word out about missing but Washington and King County also has great groups like this they just don't seek the spot light. As it was there really wasn't any real place to look using search and rescue. The area that Nicholas was just too large. The "lakes" you are talking about are more like puddles some of which even dry up in the summer. There are hundred of green belts from Seattle to Tukwilla where the car was found. I really don't see where TES could have done anything more then what was done. TES isn't some magic group that finds every person. In fact I notice a lot of missing cases they have on their site weren't even solved by them.

KC Search and Rescue go out all the time searching and are truly wonderful and unsung heroes. Bring back many who have been lost. If there had been a place to search they would have gladly gone and searched it inch by inch.

It is easy to say drag the lakes and search the green belts until you really see how large the area truly is.

Maybe it was just poor reporting on the media's part but I have always had the impression that the searches that were conducted were half arsed at best.

If an SAR group had been brought in, whether it was TES or another group, I think the searches would have been more organized and more thorough.

They still might not have found anything but I think the chances of them finding something (if there was something to find) would have been much greater.

[SilverDove]

Maybe it was just poor reporting on the media's part but I have always had the impression that the searches that were conducted were half arsed at best.

If an SAR group had been brought in, whether it was TES or another group, I think the searches would have been more organized and more thorough.

They still might not have found anything but I think the chances of them finding something (if there was something to find) would have been much greater.

There were posters put up everywhere when he went missing. Many people drove the routes he could have taken to see if they could find any place where it might look like a car had gone off the road.

Once the car was found there was both no where and to many places to look even by a SaR group. There was nothing to say that he was dead or that a body had been in the car.

Now if he was dead and they used his car to move his body did they leave it close to the car? People have walked the area near where the car was found. From what they have said it would have been hard to get a body into the lake there.

Did they drive up to the mountains and drop the body? Did they stop at any of the hundreds of green belts, lakes or the Green River on the way and drop off a body?

Remember this is a totally urban area but at the same time we have so many over grown areas that we have had bear sightings and a cougar in the middle of the city. Not to even mentioning all the raccoons and opossums that live in the city.

[invreporter1105]

Hi everyone. It's been awile since I have posted here. I have been checking Google and the boards daily for any developments in this case. Needless to say, there really is no new information. Basically what is found out there and on this very board is pure speculation based on what little facts we have about Nicholas' disappearance. I would like to see LE and the media more involved in this case. I am not sure what more LE can be doing given that a seemingly happy father and husband essentially dropped completely off radar on the evening of Feb 13, 2008. Also, media outlets really can do nothing either unless some new information comes to light.

Hopefully someday soon Nicholas' family will have some closure. I would think that LE would be leaning toward a fould play theory at this point since there has been no trace (digital or physical) of Nicholas Francisco since the evening of his disappearance. But with no evidence and no leads, I am sure they wouldn't begin to know where to look.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Maybe it was just poor reporting on the media's part but I have always had the impression that the searches that were conducted were half arsed at best.

If an SAR group had been brought in, whether it was TES or another group, I think the searches would have been more organized and more thorough.

They still might not have found anything but I think the chances of them finding something (if there was something to find) would have been much greater.

IIRC there were only a few areas canvassed, and I believe this was done by friends and family. I never heard of there being a full court press by LE to find Nicholas. Most of the older articles state they don't know where to look.

[Cheri_G]

There were posters put up everywhere when he went missing. Many people drove the routes he could have taken to see if they could find any place where it might look like a car had gone off the road.

Once the car was found there was both no where and to many places to look even by a SaR group. There was nothing to say that he was dead or that a body had been in the car.

Now if he was dead and they used his car to move his body did they leave it close to the car? People have walked the area near where the car was found. From what they have said it would have been hard to get a body into the lake there.

Did they drive up to the mountains and drop the body? Did they stop at any of the hundreds of green belts, lakes or the Green River on the way and drop off a body?

Remember this is a totally urban area but at the same time we have so many over grown areas that we have had bear sightings and a cougar in the middle of the city. Not to even mentioning all the raccoons and opossums that live in the city.

So what are you saying exactly? That unless there is a blood trail leading to some place specific that LE and/or SAR groups should not bother looking for missing people?

There have been other cases where there was little or no evidence found at the last place a person was seen or where their vehicle was found abandoned yet specific areas based on those locations were targeted and searched thoroughly. Sometimes the searches turn up nothing, sometimes evidence is found or even the MP themselves.

If they were to go by your reasoning that if they don't know for certain something or someone will be found so there's no point looking, then there would never be any searches for anyone and as a result I expect the number of unsolved cases would become even higher than it already is.

[ginky41]

I am a somewhat new follower to this case and I've done a lot of reading to "catch up" but I have a question.... Has it ever been verified by LE that NF had a secret/double life or was that just put out there by CF? TIA.

[Cheri_G]

I am a somewhat new follower to this case and I've done a lot of reading to "catch up" but I have a question.... Has it ever been verified by LE that NF had a secret/double life or was that just put out there by CF? TIA.

LE confirmed that they found a bank account belonging to Nick that Christine claims she didn't know about. $50 was withdrawn from that account on the day Nick disappeared. I don't recall that the type of account and whether or not it contained much money was ever confirmed by LE. To the best of our knowlege the account has not been accessed since that day.

At the time of that discovery KCSO spokesperson, Sgt. Urquhart said that Nick had apparently been keeping some secrets from his wife. LE never specified what type of secrets and it was widely assumed that the comment was in regards to the bank account until people started attributing various adult site accounts to Nick.

LE has never confirmed that any of these accounts were investigated and found to belong to Nick.

[Musterion]

I never really thought she knew anything. At least that is the way things were initially portrayed - that she was blindsided. But if you reread Elf's post, and assuming Elf knows, it now makes me wonder if Christine knew all along that things were not right in their marriage and their life. JMO

Hi Rainy!

When you say that you never thought that CC never knew anything, do you mean that he may have had extra marital relationships? Is that what you thought at first? That she was blindsided?

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I think until we know for sure what happened then his life has to be looked at for clues and just as everything that Christine does or says has to be looked at.

Hi SD,

I agree.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

If he walked away then he ruined his own reputation. If he died by someone he met on the internt then again it was his life choices that caused his death. These need to be looked at in the hopes of finding a clue, too.

*snipped by me

SD,

I disagree that someone who is murdered caused their own death.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi Rainy!

When you say that you never thought that CC never knew anything, do you mean that he may have had extra marital relationships? Is that what you thought at first? That she was blindsided?

IMO.
M.

At first, if you remember, Christine painted this picture of a perfect marriage. She went nuts when we first tried to entertain the possibility that Nicholas may have left voluntarily. She resorted to name calling not only the posters on this board, but on the West Seattle Blog. (they had to remind her that that was their blog, not hers). She said that Nicholas would never leave them, and if he did, that he would take them with him.

But from what Elf posted, it seems that Christine was not being truthful about that - that she knew there were problems in the marriage even as she portrayed things differently to LE, media, Etsy community, friends, etc.

Until Elf's post I thought Christine really believed things were good in her marriage. IIRC, several other posters have justified Christine's actions by saying she thought things were good and was horrified to learn the truth. JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

*snipped by me

SD,

I disagree that someone who is murdered caused their own death.

IMO.
M.

Anywhere else on this board, if a victim is blamed, people are outraged. However, in some people's opinion, Nicholas seems to be deserving of homicidal violence if that did happen to him. Quite alarming. JMO

[SilverDove]

So what are you saying exactly? That unless there is a blood trail leading to some place specific that LE and/or SAR groups should not bother looking for missing people?

There have been other cases where there was little or no evidence found at the last place a person was seen or where their vehicle was found abandoned yet specific areas based on those locations were targeted and searched thoroughly. Sometimes the searches turn up nothing, sometimes evidence is found or even the MP themselves.

If they were to go by your reasoning that if they don't know for certain something or someone will be found so there's no point looking, then there would never be any searches for anyone and as a result I expect the number of unsolved cases would become even higher than it already is.



SaR has to have a place to start. The car was found at some condos. I saw a news report where someone at those condos said that the car had been parked next to theirs in the parking lot and then moved. This makes it less likely that there was a body hidden close by because it is unlikely that someone would hid a body in their "backyard" and then park the car out front and drive it around. People did go down by the lake and search around and found nothing.

Now between where Nicholas left from work to where the car was found there are hundreds of location where a body could be hidden. If you add in the fact that the car may have been driven and it wasn't found for a week there are thousands of possible places. Even "free" SaR someone has to pay the price. Sending people out to search every place that a body might be hidden would take millions of man hours to search it carefully.

Every case is different. Now say it was a child who wander away from home you know an area. If he had been seen with people anywhere you might have an area to look in but the car drove through 5 cities and a couple of unincorporated areas to get to where it was found. Cities were Seattle, Burien, Seatac, Tukwila and Federal Way. The fact that the car was being driven also makes a difference.

[SilverDove]

*snipped by me

SD,

I disagree that someone who is murdered caused their own death.

IMO.
M.

Okay I worded that badly and I am sorry.

If life style choices could have lead to his death as in the case of the murder of Jeremy Scully then those things must be looked at to find the person or persons who did the crime and bring them to justice. Ignoring them could easily allow a killer to go free.

If everyone had just said that Scully was a couch and a wonderful man who couldn't do any of "those thing" his killer would have went free.

[SilverDove]

Anywhere else on this board, if a victim is blamed, people are outraged. However, in some people's opinion, Nicholas seems to be deserving of homicidal violence if that did happen to him. Quite alarming. JMO
I don't believe that anyone deserves homicidal violence but at the same time life style choices can come into play as to why someone is killed. I chose my words badly. I do believe that life choice can put one in a place where there is more chances of being killed but then again I still believe that he walked away.

Everything that might be a part of Nicholas' life must be looked at just like every word that Christine has said or written has been gone over with a fine tooth comb.

[Cheri_G]

SaR has to have a place to start. The car was found at some condos. I saw a news report where someone at those condos said that the car had been parked next to theirs in the parking lot and then moved. This makes it less likely that there was a body hidden close by because it is unlikely that someone would hid a body in their "backyard" and then park the car out front and drive it around. People did go down by the lake and search around and found nothing.

Now between where Nicholas left from work to where the car was found there are hundreds of location where a body could be hidden. If you add in the fact that the car may have been driven and it wasn't found for a week there are thousands of possible places. Even "free" SaR someone has to pay the price. Sending people out to search every place that a body might be hidden would take millions of man hours to search it carefully.

Every case is different. Now say it was a child who wander away from home you know an area. If he had been seen with people anywhere you might have an area to look in but the car drove through 5 cities and a couple of unincorporated areas to get to where it was found. Cities were Seattle, Burien, Seatac, Tukwila and Federal Way. The fact that the car was being driven also makes a difference.

I see what you're saying and I'm not suggesting that every single possible hiding place can be searched since the place that Nick actually disappeared from is unknown.

Aren't there a number of lakes and parks with wooded areas around Federal Way? It just seems like the closest ones, say the ones within 5 miles of where the car was found would have been worth looking at.

We can't be sure that the car was being driven or if it had been left somewhere else and moved to Federal Way later or if the person who thought it had been moved hadn't been mistaken.

If it was being driven before finally being abandoned, then who was driving it? IIRC, LE said there were no fingerprints in the car other than ones that were expected. So it would have to be Nick, Christine or someone they knew well enough that their prints in the car didn't raise any flags.

[RainyNiteNTx]

So what are you saying exactly? That unless there is a blood trail leading to some place specific that LE and/or SAR groups should not bother looking for missing people?

There have been other cases where there was little or no evidence found at the last place a person was seen or where their vehicle was found abandoned yet specific areas based on those locations were targeted and searched thoroughly. Sometimes the searches turn up nothing, sometimes evidence is found or even the MP themselves.

If they were to go by your reasoning that if they don't know for certain something or someone will be found so there's no point looking, then there would never be any searches for anyone and as a result I expect the number of unsolved cases would become even higher than it already is.



Cheri, I've said the same thing on many many posts. There seems to be a universal excuse here - "theres no where to look". As you said, if every LE agency took this stance, nobody would get found. JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

Okay I worded that badly and I am sorry.

If life style choices could have lead to his death as in the case of the murder of Jeremy Scully then those things must be looked at to find the person or persons who did the crime and bring them to justice. Ignoring them could easily allow a killer to go free.

If everyone had just said that Scully was a couch and a wonderful man who couldn't do any of "those thing" his killer would have went free.

Oh I agree about Scully. His family and fiance were more than honest about his shortcomings and never tried to portray him as perfect. I believe it is DUE to their honesty that LE was able to investigate his habits, hangouts, lifestyle, etc. The thing that has happened with this case IMO is that there does not seem to be the same respect, if you will, when discussing Nicholas.

Everything about him that was good seems to have been tossed out the window. I think that is where a lot of people get hung up. He was neither good nor bad - he was human. I'm sure he was not as good as some, and definitely not as bad as others. I think everything needs to be looked at, but it needs to be looked at with some discretion and respect. There has always seemed to be a "hang him high" attitude with some where he is concerned. All JMO.

[Miss Behavin]

hey everyone -

I haven't posted for awhile and the last time I checked in the thread was closed. Thought I'd take a minute to see if anything new has been found, but, sadly - nothing new - as I noticed from reading all 9 of these pages.

I hope he turns up!

[Musterion]

It is easy to say drag the lakes and search the green belts until you really see how large the area truly is.

Hi SD,

I live here and can attest that there are innumerable lakes and green belts.

I don't remember anyone demanding searching all lakes and green belts from Publicis to Federal Way.

I do remember many of us saying that the lake near the condo's where Nicholas' car was found, should have a search attempted.

Not necessarily for a body. But, maybe, the lake might yield a clue, like Nicholas' cell phone, or computer.

JMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

hey everyone -

I haven't posted for awhile and the last time I checked in the thread was closed. Thought I'd take a minute to see if anything new has been found, but, sadly - nothing new - as I noticed from reading all 9 of these pages.

I hope he turns up!

Turns up? Interesting choice of words.

[Musterion]

Okay I worded that badly and I am sorry.

If life style choices could have lead to his death as in the case of the murder of Jeremy Scully then those things must be looked at to find the person or persons who did the crime and bring them to justice. Ignoring them could easily allow a killer to go free.

If everyone had just said that Scully was a couch and a wonderful man who couldn't do any of "those thing" his killer would have went free.

Gotcha. Thank you for clarifying, SD!

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

If we are going back over everything this is a great collection of what was found and emails from LE. http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dcbh2vh8_12chs2qchq

Wanted to say, also, this is an interesting collection, almost exhaustive recap of the whole case:

http://www.cherigriffiths.com/phpbb3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1603

A great 'food for thought' read. Thank you, need2no.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Wanted to say, also, this is an interesting collection, almost exhaustive recap of the whole case:

http://www.cherigriffiths.com/phpbb3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1603

A great 'food for thought' read. Thank you, need2no.

IMO.
M.

Personally I find the way that longer post were cut for the best impact, the editorializing and all the "cute" titles like "cry me to river" and even worse pictures that had nothing to do with the case made it not worth much to be honest.

Great hack job on Christine though. To bad it wasn't written more straight forward with full post rather then just bites.

[Starkist]

Personally I find the way that longer post were cut for the best impact, the editorializing and all the "cute" titles like "cry me to river" and even worse pictures that had nothing to do with the case made it not worth much to be honest.

Great hack job on Christine though. To bad it wasn't written more straight forward with full post rather then just bites.

So I guess if it was going for Nick's jugular and canonizing C it would have been much more interesting and worthwhile to you? :rolleyes:

[RainyNiteNTx]

So I guess if it was going for Nick's jugular and canonizing C it would have been much more interesting and worthwhile to you? :rolleyes:

Well there are certainly those types of things out there - blogs and such with unfounded scintillating details for no reason other than to trash NF and make CFC the victim.

(red highlight by me)

[RainyNiteNTx]

Personally I find the way that longer post were cut for the best impact, the editorializing and all the "cute" titles like "cry me to river" and even worse pictures that had nothing to do with the case made it not worth much to be honest.

Great hack job on Christine though. To bad it wasn't written more straight forward with full post rather then just bites.


Ahhhhh but when an editorial hack job is written about Nicholas, it merits a "wonderful job" from you. Hmmmm

[SilverDove]

Ahhhhh but when an editorial hack job is written about Nicholas, it merits a "wonderful job" from you. Hmmmm

But I have also seen far more energy put into destroying Christine even though on the same site that that 20 part "editorial" on Christine. Had this quote from the LE "We have no reason to believe Christine Francisco had anything to do with her husband’s disappearance, or knew in advance that we was going to disappear."

Nicholas NEEDS to be found and I don't see how spending so much time and energy on Christine is going to do that. Unless we believe that somehow we have more information and are better then LE.

Neither of them are angels or devils they are just 2 very real people with all the flaws and warts that we all have. Someone knows where Nicholas is and I don't believe it is Christine.

[Cheri_G]

But I have also seen far more energy put into destroying Christine even though on the same site that that 20 part "editorial" on Christine. Had this quote from the LE "We have no reason to believe Christine Francisco had anything to do with her husband’s disappearance, or knew in advance that we was going to disappear."

Nicholas NEEDS to be found and I don't see how spending so much time and energy on Christine is going to do that. Unless we believe that somehow we have more information and are better then LE.

Neither of them are angels or devils they are just 2 very real people with all the flaws and warts that we all have. Someone knows where Nicholas is and I don't believe it is Christine.

I don't think anyone has destroyed Christine or even tried to. In fact I think its fairly clear that she has got on with things quite well (not to mention quickly) and seemingly without much distress.

I don't know if she had anything to do with Nick's disappearance or not but certain things about her, including things she has done and said raise some flags for me.

First, I don't think she ever seemed all that upset Nick was gone. She seemed much more concerned about who was going to support her financially.

Second, she was quick to say she believed him dead, in or near water (as has been brought up many times).

Third, despite claims to the contrary it didn't seem to take much convincing for Christine to believe Nick was meeting people on sex sites and then meeting them in person, a subject that raises more questions as far as I'm concerned. I think its quite possible that Christine took speculation by posters and turned it to her advantage.

Fourth, Christine has demonstrated that she's not always honest which calls into question everything she has ever claimed. I think she may have withheld some things or been dishonest about them with everyone, including LE, possibly about something that may be critical to figuring out what happened to Nick and why.

[RainyNiteNTx]

But I have also seen far more energy put into destroying Christine even though on the same site that that 20 part "editorial" on Christine. Had this quote from the LE "We have no reason to believe Christine Francisco had anything to do with her husband’s disappearance, or knew in advance that we was going to disappear."

Nicholas NEEDS to be found and I don't see how spending so much time and energy on Christine is going to do that. Unless we believe that somehow we have more information and are better then LE.

Neither of them are angels or devils they are just 2 very real people with all the flaws and warts that we all have. Someone knows where Nicholas is and I don't believe it is Christine.

The part I don't understand about your post is that Christine is NOT missing....Nicholas is. Of course people are going to listen, analyze and weigh everything Christine said from the beginning to now. If there are lies or mistruths from her (which there seemed to be), then that is going to be dissected. It seems that Nicholas and Christine were put on an even playing field from the very beginning and that is just not possible IMO.

If Christine were missing, we would be analyzing everything Nicholas said and did, and if he had done half the things Christine has done, there would probably be a sentencing without a trial. JMO

This is not a tit for tat or a contest. This is about one person missing, not two.

(o/t sort of - I know you don't follow other cases but I wish you would read Page Two of the Toni Sharpton thread under Amber Alerts. It will verify how efficient TES is and how they will come immediately if asked to find missing adults and search vast areas).

[SeattleEddie]

The part I don't understand about your post is that Christine is NOT missing....Nicholas is. <clipped for focus>
(emphasis added above)

Great point, Rainy, can't make it enough! NICHOLAS IS MISSING. Amazing how the CFC fans and ex-wife herself always manage to make it about her. And it's been that way since day #1. More about her financial problems, her pregnancy, her housing, her anger, her shock, her being alone, her finding a house, her business, her etsy, her indignation, her image, her pride, ad nauseum. I suspect there's only room for one person in that rowboat.

[SilverDove]

The part I don't understand about your post is that Christine is NOT missing....Nicholas is. Of course people are going to listen, analyze and weigh everything Christine said from the beginning to now. If there are lies or mistruths from her (which there seemed to be), then that is going to be dissected. It seems that Nicholas and Christine were put on an even playing field from the very beginning and that is just not possible IMO.

If Christine were missing, we would be analyzing everything Nicholas said and did, and if he had done half the things Christine has done, there would probably be a sentencing without a trial. JMO

This is not a tit for tat or a contest. This is about one person missing, not two.

(o/t sort of - I know you don't follow other cases but I wish you would read Page Two of the Toni Sharpton thread under Amber Alerts. It will verify how efficient TES is and how they will come immediately if asked to find missing adults and search vast areas).

Seems that all the analyzing, examining and so forth has created a brilliant case for Nicholas having just gotten tired of it all and walked away. Other then that I'm not sure it has done anything to find Nicholas.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Seems that all the analyzing, examining and so forth has created a brilliant case for Nicholas having just gotten tired of it all and walked away. Other then that I'm not sure it has done anything to find Nicholas.

A missing entity can be found by either looking for the missing entity or accidentally happening upon said entity. IMO, the difference is desire.

[Musterion]

Seems that all the analyzing, examining and so forth has created a brilliant case for Nicholas having just gotten tired of it all and walked away. Other then that I'm not sure it has done anything to find Nicholas.

(bolding mine)

We won't know if it has done anything to find Nicholas until Nicholas is found. We won't know if just one post that was read by one person who knew something about where Nicholas is, helped to bring Nicholas home, until Nicholas is home.

That is why analyzing and examining, over and over and over again, and keeping Nicholas' case in some public forum is a GOOD thing. And, I am extremely grateful we have the opportunity to discuss here, on IS.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

But I have also seen far more energy put into destroying Christine even though on the same site that that 20 part "editorial" on Christine. Had this quote from the LE "We have no reason to believe Christine Francisco had anything to do with her husband’s disappearance, or knew in advance that we was going to disappear."

Nicholas NEEDS to be found and I don't see how spending so much time and energy on Christine is going to do that. Unless we believe that somehow we have more information and are better then LE.

Neither of them are angels or devils they are just 2 very real people with all the flaws and warts that we all have. Someone knows where Nicholas is and I don't believe it is Christine.

(bolding mine)

That statement has always baffled me.

It would seem logical that LE cannot make a definitive statement like that when they have NO idea if the missing person walked or met with foul play. The case is not closed. They don't know what happened to him, so how in the world could they know whether or not Christine had anything to do with what happened to Nicholas, or knowledge of what happened!!!

IMO.
M.

[need2no]

Speaking of analyzing... I STILL want to know when Nicholas had the time to do these things Christine has accused him of doing, and why not one person has come forward to share the 'dirt' on him.

For me accusations without a factual basis regarding a missing man is very suspicious and disturbing, especially when the spouse moves on so quickly.

[SeattleEddie]

Statements made by police are almost always strategic, particularly when some facts are unknown or evidence inconclusive.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Seems that all the analyzing, examining and so forth has created a brilliant case for Nicholas having just gotten tired of it all and walked away. Other then that I'm not sure it has done anything to find Nicholas.

We'll have to agree to disagree on both counts. Everything I have looked at indicates to me that he did not voluntarily leave. Additionally there are hundreds of posts a day here on IS on other forums that are doing the same thing we are doing - analyzing and examining. This is the only forum though where that seems to be a problem for some.

[RainyNiteNTx]

(bolding mine)

We won't know if it has done anything to find Nicholas until Nicholas is found. We won't know if just one post that was read by one person who knew something about where Nicholas is, helped to bring Nicholas home, until Nicholas is home.

That is why analyzing and examining, over and over and over again, and keeping Nicholas' case in some public forum is a GOOD thing. And, I am extremely grateful we have the opportunity to discuss here, on IS.

IMO.
M.

ITA with everything you just said.

[RainyNiteNTx]

(emphasis added above)

Great point, Rainy, can't make it enough! NICHOLAS IS MISSING. Amazing how the CFC fans and ex-wife herself always manage to make it about her. And it's been that way since day #1. More about her financial problems, her pregnancy, her housing, her anger, her shock, her being alone, her finding a house, her business, her etsy, her indignation, her image, her pride, ad nauseum. I suspect there's only room for one person in that rowboat.

I have followed missing persons cases for years and I've never seen anything like it. You forgot to mention the numerous support sites set up for Christine. Not one was set up for Nicholas until a poster here set one up.

[Musterion]

Statements made by police are almost always strategic, particularly when some facts are unknown or evidence inconclusive.

I hope so, SE.

I have seen, in other cases, where LE has gone out of their way to say a person who is obviously a suspect, is not one, has been 'cleared', is not being 'looked at', and no need to 'pursue' anymore questioning, etc.

JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Speaking of analyzing... I STILL want to know when Nicholas had the time to do these things Christine has accused him of doing, and why not one person has come forward to share the 'dirt' on him.

For me accusations without a factual basis regarding a missing man is very suspicious and disturbing, especially when the spouse moves on so quickly.

Hi n2n!

She and some of the friends said he was home, after work, every night. I believe it was said he frequented the Wet Spot, which was near work and it was possible he went there on his lunch hour.

There was a couple, that came forward in the form of email, that Mystry had contacted or they had contacted her. I can't remember the details. They had told M. that they had gone to the police and said they knew Nicholas, intimately and gave LE pictures of the encounter. IIRC, they met him through a local sex club, they said, that met one night a week. Christine never said Nicholas was absent in the evenings, though, to my knowledge.

That was all that I have heard of this couple, though.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Why did LE check to see if Nicholas had a membership at AFF? Is that standard operating procedure with LE when an adult goes missing in Seattle? Did they check to see if Fale had one, or Stafford-Yilmaz, or any others? Anyone know?

[n/t]

Why did LE check to see if Nicholas had a membership at AFF? Is that standard operating procedure with LE when an adult goes missing in Seattle? Did they check to see if Fale had one, or Stafford-Yilmaz, or any others? Anyone know?

It is my understanding that the wife discovered it and shared it with someone.:wink:

[Musterion]

Not really lol, but thats okay. Something specific made the Detective check to see if NF was a member of AFF, unless that is just standard operating procedure for all missing adults in Seattle.

I really, kinda, don't think that LE scrolls through AFF memberships when there is a missing person. Could be wrong!

However, if there is a secret bank account, wouldn't Nicholas have to use a social security number to open that account?

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

I really, kinda, don't think that LE scrolls through AFF memberships when there is a missing person. Could be wrong!

However, if there is a secret bank account, wouldn't Nicholas have to use a social security number to open that account?

IMO.
M.
Some of the people who were contacted on AFF replied that they had already contacted LE. This could have been how LE learned of the account.

As to the bank account if I remember correctly it was a PayPal account. These do not require Social Security numbers and can have ATM cards. Many people who have online business do this because it is an easy safe way to get paid from around the world.

[Cheri_G]

Why did LE check to see if Nicholas had a membership at AFF? Is that standard operating procedure with LE when an adult goes missing in Seattle? Did they check to see if Fale had one, or Stafford-Yilmaz, or any others? Anyone know?

I feel like I've missed or forgotten something. Did LE state at some point that they checked to see if Nick had an AFF membership?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Some of the people who were contacted on AFF replied that they had already contacted LE. This could have been how LE learned of the account.

As to the bank account if I remember correctly it was a PayPal account. These do not require Social Security numbers and can have ATM cards. Many people who have online business do this because it is an easy safe way to get paid from around the world.

Your post states "some of the people who were contacted on AFF...." my question is why would LE (I guess that is who contacted them) would contact anyone on AFF. How did they think to do that?

[RainyNiteNTx]

I feel like I've missed or forgotten something. Did LE state at some point that they checked to see if Nick had an AFF membership?

You probably haven't missed or forgotten anything - I'm just trying to figure out why AFF was contacted, and who first contacted them. I just assumed it was LE who first contacted them.

[RainyNiteNTx]

It is my understanding that the wife discovered it and shared it with someone.:wink:

What would make her think to look at AFF?

[n/t]

What would make her think to look at AFF?

Your guess is as good as mine.

[n/t]

Some of the people who were contacted on AFF replied that they had already contacted LE. This could have been how LE learned of the account.

As to the bank account if I remember correctly it was a PayPal account. These do not require Social Security numbers and can have ATM cards. Many people who have online business do this because it is an easy safe way to get paid from around the world.

In order to apply for a PayPal account, you need banking information. In order to get a bank account, you need to have ID.

[Musterion]

In order to apply for a PayPal account, you need banking information. In order to get a bank account, you need to have ID.

Good Morning, n/t!

Then, did LE run Nicholas' SS# and his bank accounts came up?

IMO.
M.

[Shelby1]

In order to apply for a PayPal account, you need banking information. In order to get a bank account, you need to have ID.

I signed up just using one of my credit cards.........I didn't have to submit any banking info. When I use paypal, it just charges my credit card.

[n/t]

I signed up just using one of my credit cards.........I didn't have to submit any banking info. When I use paypal, it just charges my credit card.

Right. That can be done also. But in order to apply for a credit card, you need banking information. So, one way or the other, LE could access Nick's banking informaion through his SS #.

Hope that makes sense. LOL

[Shelby1]

Right. That can be done also. But in order to apply for a credit card, you need banking information. So, one way or the other, LE could access Nick's banking informaion through his SS #.

Hope that makes sense. LOL

Ok, I get it now.

I get confused with details lol.

[SilverDove]

Your post states "some of the people who were contacted on AFF...." my question is why would LE (I guess that is who contacted them) would contact anyone on AFF. How did they think to do that?

Never post late at night

Should have read: Some of the people on AFF contacted LE.

[need2no]

Never post late at night

Should have read: Some of the people on AFF contacted LE.

Strange how LE never stated Nicholas was a member of AFF, yet they have stated this publicly in so many other cases.


IRRC LE also never confirmed Nicholas had a 'secret' paypal account.

[SilverDove]

Strange how LE never stated Nicholas was a member of AFF, yet they have stated this publicly in so many other cases.


IRRC LE also never confirmed Nicholas had a 'secret' paypal account.

Isn't that the whole problem all along? LE has never released much of any information. They say Nicholas was keeping secrets from his wife but not what the secrets were. The only thing they have ever contradicted Christine saying was what time she call 911. Also every email LE has sent has been twisted to mean almost anything or nothing.

In the end LE, Nicholas' family and even most of his friends have been so very quiet. Are they protecting his reputation at the cost of his body being found or are they protecting a person they think or know is alive?

My other question if Nicholas was the wonderful friend, father, brother, son that people keep saying he is why are none of the people who knew him doing anything any more.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Isn't that the whole problem all along? LE has never released much of any information. They say Nicholas was keeping secrets from his wife but not what the secrets were. The only thing they have ever contradicted Christine saying was what time she call 911. Also every email LE has sent has been twisted to mean almost anything or nothing.

In the end LE, Nicholas' family and even most of his friends have been so very quiet. Are they protecting his reputation at the cost of his body being found or are they protecting a person they think or know is alive?

My other question if Nicholas was the wonderful friend, father, brother, son that people keep saying he is why are none of the people who knew him doing anything any more.

Thank you for the reminder regarding the time descrepancy of the 911 call.

Just an observation and likely a rhetorical question but shouldn't "ex-husband" be included in the list of Nicholas' roles/titles?
jmo

[Shelby1]

Thank you for the reminder regarding the time descrepancy of the 911 call.

Just an observation and likely a rhetorical question but shouldn't "ex-husband" be included in the list of Nicholas' roles/titles?
jmo


Yes, I had forgotten the 911 call time difference.

AND yes, he is and should now be described as Christine's ex.

[Musterion]

I signed up just using one of my credit cards.........I didn't have to submit any banking info. When I use paypal, it just charges my credit card.

LOL, Shelby, Reason for your edit.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Right. That can be done also. But in order to apply for a credit card, you need banking information. So, one way or the other, LE could access Nick's banking informaion through his SS #.

Hope that makes sense. LOL

Exactly! What we might want to look back at is the timing of when LE said they first accessed his bank info and what they said at that point.

Because, IIRC, they accessed his accounts and said they found nothing.

But, I'll have to look into that unless someone else has it at their fingertips.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Isn't that the whole problem all along? LE has never released much of any information. They say Nicholas was keeping secrets from his wife but not what the secrets were. The only thing they have ever contradicted Christine saying was what time she call 911. Also every email LE has sent has been twisted to mean almost anything or nothing.

In the end LE, Nicholas' family and even most of his friends have been so very quiet. Are they protecting his reputation at the cost of his body being found or are they protecting a person they think or know is alive?

My other question if Nicholas was the wonderful friend, father, brother, son that people keep saying he is why are none of the people who knew him doing anything any more.

Hi SD!

I know it is possible, but, in this particular situation, I just don't see why anyone would protect Nicholas if they thought he was hiding, or knew he was hiding.

What would be the point? Why would they risk possible legal issues of their own by doing that?

Maybe his family is looking. Maybe they do have a PI discreetly investigating. We don't know that.

As for everyone else appearing to not be searching, all I can see is that when the 'secret life' came out, it appears most people felt they didn't know Nicholas and felt betrayed in some way. And, believed the 'possibility' that he just up and left. Which, if true, is so sad, because if Nicholas had a secret life, IMO, it only makes the risk of him being dead more likely. And, his body needs to be brought home for his children to say goodbye.

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Hi SD!

I know it is possible, but, in this particular situation, I just don't see why anyone would protect Nicholas if they thought he was hiding, or knew he was hiding.

What would be the point? Why would they risk possible legal issues of their own by doing that?

Maybe his family is looking. Maybe they do have a PI discreetly investigating. We don't know that.

As for everyone else appearing to not be searching, all I can see is that when the 'secret life' came out, it appears most people felt they didn't know Nicholas and felt betrayed in some way. And, believed the 'possibility' that he just up and left. Which, if true, is so sad, because if Nicholas had a secret life, IMO, it only makes the risk of him being dead more likely. And, his body needs to be brought home for his children to say goodbye.

IMO.
M.

What legal risk? He isn't wanted for anything. No one even has to answer any police questions if they don't want to. If he walked away on his own and he doesn't want to be found why would a friend turn him in? I guess they could do it for money but I know there is no amount of money that would make me turn in a friend unless he had done something really horrible.

Wouldn't the family be more likely to get information if they were asking for it. Who hires a discreet PI to find a missing person? I thought you used them to find cheating mates. We also don't know that he hasn't contacted his family and told them he was okay and ask them not to say anything. I can't imagine them giving him up to the police just so that Christine could get a support order and then they would be more likely to be in trouble if they didn't give him up.

Secret life could have got him dead or even more likely gave him a way to walk away and hid. Also it would be horribly sad if he went to meet a lover before going home and got killed doing that but in that case he may never been found. If no one knew where he was going who ever killed him would have lots of time to hid a body and so many place. This is the reason it is so important to find out what the secret life is.

[need2no]

Exactly! What we might want to look back at is the timing of when LE said they first accessed his bank info and what they said at that point.

Because, IIRC, they accessed his accounts and said they found nothing.

But, I'll have to look into that unless someone else has it at their fingertips.

IMO.
M.

Hi Musterion :seeya:


I just happen to have the info at my fingertips since I've got a great resource for everything about this case. :wink:

Detectives also are checking Francisco's financial records to determine whether they reveal any clues to his disappearance. "There's no indication that there is foul play or any incident in his life that would lead him to go missing voluntarily," Urquhart said. "It's a real 'where is he?' (Feb. 20)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004191118_missingman20m.html

Detectives have searched the couple's financial records and found nothing to help lead them to the missing man, said sheriff's Sgt. James Laing.

We looked at Nicholas’ financial records and credit card receipts and nothing has lead us in one particular direction or anything. Per Urquhart.


ETA: I just noticed the number of views for this thread; it's good to know so many still have an interest in this case.

[n/t]

Hi Musterion :seeya:


I just happen to have the info at my fingertips since I've got a great resource for everything about this case. :wink:

Detectives also are checking Francisco's financial records to determine whether they reveal any clues to his disappearance. "There's no indication that there is foul play or any incident in his life that would lead him to go missing voluntarily," Urquhart said. "It's a real 'where is he?' (Feb. 20)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004191118_missingman20m.html

Detectives have searched the couple's financial records and found nothing to help lead them to the missing man, said sheriff's Sgt. James Laing.

We looked at Nicholas’ financial records and credit card receipts and nothing has lead us in one particular direction or anything. Per Urquhart.


ETA: I just noticed the number of views for this thread; it's good to know so many still have an interest in this case.

IIRC, a month later approx end of March is when the alleged secret life began to surface.

Good to see you!

[Musterion]

Hi Musterion :seeya:


I just happen to have the info at my fingertips since I've got a great resource for everything about this case. :wink:

Detectives also are checking Francisco's financial records to determine whether they reveal any clues to his disappearance. "There's no indication that there is foul play or any incident in his life that would lead him to go missing voluntarily," Urquhart said. "It's a real 'where is he?' (Feb. 20)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004191118_missingman20m.html

Detectives have searched the couple's financial records and found nothing to help lead them to the missing man, said sheriff's Sgt. James Laing.

We looked at Nicholas’ financial records and credit card receipts and nothing has lead us in one particular direction or anything. Per Urquhart.


ETA: I just noticed the number of views for this thread; it's good to know so many still have an interest in this case.

Oh thank you, N2N! I was hoping you would save me the look up!

20 February, financial and credit records checked and, it seems, a very definitive statement that there was nothing alarming.

Can we assume that they would have hit the secret account at that point?

If they ran Nicholas' SSN and got all of his bank and credit card/records, it would seem really unusual, IMO, they would not have found any bank/paypal record under that SSN.

Am I missing something?

They said they found nothing? Yet Cheri's email to Detective Holland states a 'found by me' when asked if he had found the secret life?

Thoughts? Anyone?

And, yeah, N2N, I notice the views as well. Interesting how many are interested!

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

IIRC, a month later approx end of March is when the alleged secret life began to surface.

Good to see you!

What happened in that month?

Why didn't LE make a different statement if they had found a secret life? Not: We've found nothing alarming or to indicate he left on his own. Maybe something like, it is an ongoing investigation and we can't reveal anything about bank accounts or credit cards.

I think it would be, and evidently was/is alarming to many, about a secret life of a man who lived a life in direct opposition to that secret life.

Hm.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

What legal risk? He isn't wanted for anything. No one even has to answer any police questions if they don't want to. If he walked away on his own and he doesn't want to be found why would a friend turn him in? I guess they could do it for money but I know there is no amount of money that would make me turn in a friend unless he had done something really horrible.

Wouldn't the family be more likely to get information if they were asking for it. Who hires a discreet PI to find a missing person? I thought you used them to find cheating mates. We also don't know that he hasn't contacted his family and told them he was okay and ask them not to say anything. I can't imagine them giving him up to the police just so that Christine could get a support order and then they would be more likely to be in trouble if they didn't give him up.

Secret life could have got him dead or even more likely gave him a way to walk away and hid. Also it would be horribly sad if he went to meet a lover before going home and got killed doing that but in that case he may never been found. If no one knew where he was going who ever killed him would have lots of time to hid a body and so many place. This is the reason it is so important to find out what the secret life is.

If Nicholas is alive and his family knows and they have lied to police, they are obstructing an investigation.

Same for his friends.

This is an ongoing investigation into a missing person's case. The State Of Washington is spending time and money looking for Nicholas. Would you, really, want to take a chance and lie for a friend who abandoned his three small children? Who left them in a cruel and sudden way, to fend for themselves? To be left with a distraught mother who had no where to turn except to charity? Whose mother rebounded in marriage to a man she says she barely knew and moved those children across the country to a state and culture totally foreign to them?

Nicholas has broken a law, IF he abandoned his children. I've posted that law numerous times on this board. He's in trouble if he left those children without providing for them. Even without an order of child support enforcement.

And, let's not forget, even in this day and age there is a moral responsibility. And, again, it is to those children.

I don't see Nicholas' mother and family the way you do, SD. I don't see them as bereft of conscience and concern for Nicholas' children. I, somehow, believe and have seen evidence that Nicholas' mother and sisters are all remarkably talented and live a life of giving to others. Responsible. I think Nicholas portrayed that same responsibility the 28 years of his life, by getting an education and working to provide for Christine and his children.

His secret life is important. And this is what we are trying to do. Once again. Start at the beginning and find out if there was a secret life, where and how that secret life came out. To what extent was there a secret life, when did it start, how long was he involved in it.

IMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

What happened in that month?

Why didn't LE make a different statement if they had found a secret life? Not: We've found nothing alarming or to indicate he left on his own. Maybe something like, it is an ongoing investigation and we can't reveal anything about bank accounts or credit cards.

I think it would be, and evidently was/is alarming to many, about a secret life of a man who lived a life in direct opposition to that secret life.

Hm.

IMO.
M.

Maybe the "secret life" consisted of nothing more than the bank account Christine claims to have not known about, which was discovered by Det. Holland during the course of his investigation.

I learned a valuable lesson from Det. Holland about how not to pose questions if I want the answers to be clear.

[SeattleEddie]

If the "secret life" was the bank account, it seems it would have been found relatively early in the investigation. Or maybe it was the finding of the bank account that opened up the whole "secret life" discussion. Once LE found the bank account that wife didn't know about, the floodgates opened with all the accusations about FF, naked photos, sex clubs, etc. So someone (not LE) made the leap from bank account to everything else.

At the time, I went to every ATM machine in the vicinity of his work oh, within a ten-block area. I went to every little mom-and-pop and 7-11 type store, as well as the banks and grocery stores. The only ATM where he could have made a $50 withdrawal was at Bank of America a few blocks up from his work, based on the withdrawal amount and fee amount. All those ATMs have cameras, but I believe all ATMs have cameras. Even if he made the withdrawal in some other part of the city, we know that LE most likely has a photo of him making that withdrawal. (as I recall, though, he made the w/d within a few minutes of his last sighting by a co-worker near work)

So as far as we know, he left work and drove up to the bank to make a withdrawal, and LE has evidence of these actions.

Everything after that is conjecture. There hasn't been any evidence of sex clubs, naked typing, lovers, dates, affairs, etc etc etc. God knows we spent hours and hours poring over the photo of the naked torso on the office chair wife insisted was in their study. We were even distracted to the point of analyzing photos of pumpkins to see if he may have been in the same group of swingers with Scully. IMO the obsession with a "secret life" is an unfounded diversion that takes us further and further away from the truth. IMO

As Musterion said above, the really interesting question is where do these allegations come from? and why? I wish we could figure that out.

[n/t]

Maybe the "secret life" consisted of nothing more than the bank account Christine claims to have not known about, which was discovered by Det. Holland during the course of his investigation.

I learned a valuable lesson from Det. Holland about how not to pose questions if I want the answers to be clear.

See....what I have a problem with is ex wife claims to not have known about this paypal account. She may very well have known but we only have her word for it. For all we know, this paypal account may have been set up for her Etsy business and Nick would take care of buying her stuff with this account like the organic sugar to make the cookies.

I guess if people believe her she is the victim and Nicholas is the lying, cheating husband who ran off on his family.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I don't see Nicholas' mother and family the way you do, SD. I don't see them as bereft of conscience and concern for Nicholas' children. I, somehow, believe and have seen evidence that Nicholas' mother and sisters are all remarkably talented and live a life of giving to others. Responsible. I think Nicholas portrayed that same responsibility the 28 years of his life, by getting an education and working to provide for Christine and his children.

His secret life is important. And this is what we are trying to do. Once again. Start at the beginning and find out if there was a secret life, where and how that secret life came out. To what extent was there a secret life, when did it start, how long was he involved in it.

IMO.
M.
(respectfully snipped) (highlighted by me)

I agree M. I'm not sure why some try to paint Nicholas' mother and family in such a negative light. Well, think about it, some people have put Nicholas in a negative light from very early on, AND have put those of us who have tried to keep his name out there in a negative light.

I'm not sure why it is so important to some to have this all go away.
All JMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

See....what I have a problem with is ex wife claims to not have known about this paypal account. She may very well have known but we only have her word for it. For all we know, this paypal account may have been set up for her Etsy business and Nick would take care of buying her stuff with this account like the organic sugar to make the cookies.

I guess if people believe her she is the victim and Nicholas is the lying, cheating husband who ran off on his family.

Didn't Nicholas have a freelance job, in addition to his regular job? Didn't Christine say that? If so, I can see him having a paypal account.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi Musterion :seeya:


I just happen to have the info at my fingertips since I've got a great resource for everything about this case. :wink:

Detectives also are checking Francisco's financial records to determine whether they reveal any clues to his disappearance. "There's no indication that there is foul play or any incident in his life that would lead him to go missing voluntarily," Urquhart said. "It's a real 'where is he?' (Feb. 20)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004191118_missingman20m.html

Detectives have searched the couple's financial records and found nothing to help lead them to the missing man, said sheriff's Sgt. James Laing.

We looked at Nicholas’ financial records and credit card receipts and nothing has lead us in one particular direction or anything. Per Urquhart.


ETA: I just noticed the number of views for this thread; it's good to know so many still have an interest in this case.

Okay, the Sgt. says there is nothing that leads them in one particular direction....so if they looked at Nicholas' financial records and credit card receipts, would they not have found an indication of a secret life at that point?

[RainyNiteNTx]

Four days after Nicholas went missing, Christine's sister stated they were in desperate financial shape. This would mean they were in desperate financial shape before Nicholas went missing. Their financial situation could not have changed the moment Nick disappeared. IMO

[RainyNiteNTx]

SeattleEddie - I just want to thank you for all of the time and labor you have put into this case. You've done far more than even some organizations who are supposed to be dedicated to the missing.

[Cheri_G]

If the "secret life" was the bank account, it seems it would have been found relatively early in the investigation. Or maybe it was the finding of the bank account that opened up the whole "secret life" discussion. Once LE found the bank account that wife didn't know about, the floodgates opened with all the accusations about FF, naked photos, sex clubs, etc. So someone (not LE) made the leap from bank account to everything else.

At the time, I went to every ATM machine in the vicinity of his work oh, within a ten-block area. I went to every little mom-and-pop and 7-11 type store, as well as the banks and grocery stores. The only ATM where he could have made a $50 withdrawal was at Bank of America a few blocks up from his work, based on the withdrawal amount and fee amount. All those ATMs have cameras, but I believe all ATMs have cameras. Even if he made the withdrawal in some other part of the city, we know that LE most likely has a photo of him making that withdrawal. (as I recall, though, he made the w/d within a few minutes of his last sighting by a co-worker near work)

So as far as we know, he left work and drove up to the bank to make a withdrawal, and LE has evidence of these actions.

Everything after that is conjecture. There hasn't been any evidence of sex clubs, naked typing, lovers, dates, affairs, etc etc etc. God knows we spent hours and hours poring over the photo of the naked torso on the office chair wife insisted was in their study. We were even distracted to the point of analyzing photos of pumpkins to see if he may have been in the same group of swingers with Scully. IMO the obsession with a "secret life" is an unfounded diversion that takes us further and further away from the truth. IMO

As Musterion said above, the really interesting question is where do these allegations come from? and why? I wish we could figure that out.

The term "secret life" originated with us (meaning posters online) not LE. What LE (I believe it was an email from Sgt. Urquhart) said was that Nick was apparently keeping some secrets from his wife, referring I believe, to the bank account.

You may recall that after the discovery of this account Christine (either on her blog or etsy) then posted a bunch of stuff about how Nick was trying to protect her from the realities of their financial situation.

As for the adult sites attributed to Nick, only one account on each site was offered up as possibly being Nick and then quickly assumed that they were in fact his. Out of how many?

I think if you take a look at AFF for example you'll find that there are over a million users claiming WA as home and of those over a hundred thousand claiming to be in the Seattle area, and of those, hundreds maybe even thousands that use Nicholas or Steven or some variation/abbreviaton of them in their nicknames. So how was it that only a single account was posted as possibly being Nick's, when anyone searching should have come up with a lot more possibilites? I its expect because the people who posted these accounts were directed to them rather than found them through random searches.

We have been told that Nick wore his laptop like a wedding ring. It has been said he never let it out of his sight even taking it to the bathroom with him. Statements designed to make you think he was keeping something on it he didn't want to risk anyone finding. Something like a secret sex life. If that's the case and all evidence of this secret life was on his laptop which went missing with Nick how could it be confirmed that any of these accounts were his?

[Cheri_G]

Didn't Nicholas have a freelance job, in addition to his regular job? Didn't Christine say that? If so, I can see him having a paypal account.

He also had his own etsy shop. It would make sense that he had a paypal account for that if for no other reason.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Why would Nicholas leave traces of a "secret" life on the home computer? Why would he even use the home computer? That would have been the only thing Christine could have searched since Nicholas and his laptop were missing.

Great points Cheri.

[Cheri_G]

Okay, the Sgt. says there is nothing that leads them in one particular direction....so if they looked at Nicholas' financial records and credit card receipts, would they not have found an indication of a secret life at that point?

One would think so. We've been told (NOT by LE) the AFF account which is a free account had been a pay account and only recently (at the time of Nick's disappearance) had become a free account. We were told there was an electronic trail of this. Well if someone online could find this out you can bet LE could.

If such a thing was discovered it would seem like the next step would be to subpoena the records and check the activity on the account. Whether it was recent and whether or not there was any person(s) in particular he interacted with regularly, then maybe find them and question them. Nothing like that appears to have happened.

If the account is Nick's and if it was discovered and looked at by LE there was obviously nothing there to make them think that he met someone and ran off with them or someone who may have harmed him since they have always maintained there is zero evidence pointing one way or another.

[RainyNiteNTx]

[COLOR=#0000ff]If the account is Nick's and if it was discovered and looked at by LE there was obviously nothing there to make them think that he met someone and ran off with them or someone who may have harmed him since they have always maintained there is zero evidence pointing one way or another.

(respectfully snipped)
Right! So lets just say for the sake of argument that the account is Nicks' account. It evidently did not warrant LE stating that "due to the evidence they had found, that it appears Mr. Francisco chose to leave voluntarily".

So why people took this ball and ran with it in the direction they did, is not only curious, but suspicious IMO.

[Cheri_G]

(respectfully snipped)
Right! So lets just say for the sake of argument that the account is Nicks' account. It evidently did not warrant LE stating that "due to the evidence they had found, that it appears Mr. Francisco chose to leave voluntarily".

So why people took this ball and ran with it in the direction they did, is not only curious, but suspicious IMO.

(bold by me)

Maybe somebody was encouraging/leading them in that direction.

[RainyNiteNTx]

(bold by me)

Maybe somebody was encouraging/leading them in that direction.

and the agenda would be?

[Cheri_G]

and the agenda would be?

Maybe somebody doesn't want Nick found.

[Musterion]

For Nicholas and all the missing. :rose:

[Musterion]

If the "secret life" was the bank account, it seems it would have been found relatively early in the investigation. Or maybe it was the finding of the bank account that opened up the whole "secret life" discussion. Once LE found the bank account that wife didn't know about, the floodgates opened with all the accusations about FF, naked photos, sex clubs, etc. So someone (not LE) made the leap from bank account to everything else.

At the time, I went to every ATM machine in the vicinity of his work oh, within a ten-block area. I went to every little mom-and-pop and 7-11 type store, as well as the banks and grocery stores. The only ATM where he could have made a $50 withdrawal was at Bank of America a few blocks up from his work, based on the withdrawal amount and fee amount. All those ATMs have cameras, but I believe all ATMs have cameras. Even if he made the withdrawal in some other part of the city, we know that LE most likely has a photo of him making that withdrawal. (as I recall, though, he made the w/d within a few minutes of his last sighting by a co-worker near work)

So as far as we know, he left work and drove up to the bank to make a withdrawal, and LE has evidence of these actions.

Everything after that is conjecture. There hasn't been any evidence of sex clubs, naked typing, lovers, dates, affairs, etc etc etc. God knows we spent hours and hours poring over the photo of the naked torso on the office chair wife insisted was in their study. We were even distracted to the point of analyzing photos of pumpkins to see if he may have been in the same group of swingers with Scully. IMO the obsession with a "secret life" is an unfounded diversion that takes us further and further away from the truth. IMO

As Musterion said above, the really interesting question is where do these allegations come from? and why? I wish we could figure that out.

You're right. The floodgates came wide open with speculation. That is where we need to pinpoint exactly who put the first speculation out there and how that person got the info.

I had forgotten you had done all that legwork. Amazing. Why the big secret where he made the withdrawal from LE, from Christine? Would it not help the investigation to know where he was actually last seen?

Thanks, SE. I think we, those who are left here, are determined to NOT be diverted again.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Maybe somebody doesn't want Nick found.

Dead or Alive?

IMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

Dead or Alive?

IMO.
M.

Either way.

[Musterion]

Either way.

If it is Christine, why would she not want him found is he is alive?

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Four days after Nicholas went missing, Christine's sister stated they were in desperate financial shape. This would mean they were in desperate financial shape before Nicholas went missing. Their financial situation could not have changed the moment Nick disappeared. IMO

That's a good point, Rainy.

They hadn't missed a paycheck. How did things get financially worse in four days?

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

(respectfully snipped)
Right! So lets just say for the sake of argument that the account is Nicks' account. It evidently did not warrant LE stating that "due to the evidence they had found, that it appears Mr. Francisco chose to leave voluntarily".

So why people took this ball and ran with it in the direction they did, is not only curious, but suspicious IMO.

Remember the 'paper trail'? It was said that, somehow, the PayPal account showed that Nicholas had an AFF membership for years. Alluding that this account was where he paid for that membership.

Do we have proof of that document? That membership somewhere? A screen shot or anything?

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

The term "secret life" originated with us (meaning posters online) not LE. What LE (I believe it was an email from Sgt. Urquhart) said was that Nick was apparently keeping some secrets from his wife, referring I believe, to the bank account.

You may recall that after the discovery of this account Christine (either on her blog or etsy) then posted a bunch of stuff about how Nick was trying to protect her from the realities of their financial situation.

As for the adult sites attributed to Nick, only one account on each site was offered up as possibly being Nick and then quickly assumed that they were in fact his. Out of how many?

I think if you take a look at AFF for example you'll find that there are over a million users claiming WA as home and of those over a hundred thousand claiming to be in the Seattle area, and of those, hundreds maybe even thousands that use Nicholas or Steven or some variation/abbreviaton of them in their nicknames. So how was it that only a single account was posted as possibly being Nick's, when anyone searching should have come up with a lot more possibilites? I its expect because the people who posted these accounts were directed to them rather than found them through random searches.

We have been told that Nick wore his laptop like a wedding ring. It has been said he never let it out of his sight even taking it to the bathroom with him. Statements designed to make you think he was keeping something on it he didn't want to risk anyone finding. Something like a secret sex life. If that's the case and all evidence of this secret life was on his laptop which went missing with Nick how could it be confirmed that any of these accounts were his?



You're right, Cheri.

IIRC they did not have a 'home' computer? They each had a laptop? Is that true? Maybe not.

As much as Christine was on the internet, I think she may have worn her computer like a wedding ring, too.

IMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

If it is Christine, why would she not want him found is he is alive?

IMO.
M.

I don't know. Some sort of punishment maybe? An effort to make it harder to come back into the children's lives if he is alive and turns up?

[Musterion]

Maybe the "secret life" consisted of nothing more than the bank account Christine claims to have not known about, which was discovered by Det. Holland during the course of his investigation.

I learned a valuable lesson from Det. Holland about how not to pose questions if I want the answers to be clear.

LOL! About the valuable lesson!

I learned that very hard lesson, myself, in court years ago. Never ask an open ended question.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

(respectfully snipped)
Right! So lets just say for the sake of argument that the account is Nicks' account. It evidently did not warrant LE stating that "due to the evidence they had found, that it appears Mr. Francisco chose to leave voluntarily".

So why people took this ball and ran with it in the direction they did, is not only curious, but suspicious IMO.

Good Morning, Rainy!

Can we go back and find out who ran with it first?

IMO.
M.

[Cheri_G]

You're right, Cheri.

IIRC they did not have a 'home' computer? They each had a laptop? Is that true? Maybe not.

As much as Christine was on the internet, I think she may have worn her computer like a wedding ring, too.

IMO.
M.

I'm fairly certain it was stated somewhere that there was a "home" computer. I don't recall any mention of whether it was a desktop or a laptop. Whichever one it was, the amount of time Christine was online would certainly indicate she was the primary if not sole user.

[Cheri_G]

Good Morning, Rainy!

Can we go back and find out who ran with it first?

IMO.
M.

I think it was first posted at WS.

[Musterion]

I don't know. Some sort of punishment maybe? An effort to make it harder to come back into the children's lives if he is alive and turns up?

Possibly true.

It just seems money is important to Christine. She has sole custody of the children. With what she alleges in her court papers for the divorce it would be a long and difficult process for Nicholas to see his children again. Not impossible. But, in the meantime, living across the US, she could be collecting child support without dealing with Nicholas at all.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I think it was first posted at WS.

Do you remember which poster, Cheri?

IMO.
M.

[SilverDove]

Do you remember which poster, Cheri?

IMO.
M.

It was first posted on Cheri's board in an message form Pauli that May posted trying to show that Pauli was taking credit for finding the secret that the LE said they found. In that message it said that he was sleeping with men and women. From there is spread.

[Cheri_G]

Possibly true.

It just seems money is important to Christine. She has sole custody of the children. With what she alleges in her court papers for the divorce it would be a long and difficult process for Nicholas to see his children again. Not impossible. But, in the meantime, living across the US, she could be collecting child support without dealing with Nicholas at all.

IMO.
M.

This is true and if Nick did just walk away he has at the very least a financial obligation to his children. I don't recall that we came across any support orders when we looked at the divorce documentation.

It might be worth another look to see if there is one because the only reason (I can think of) not to ask for it and get it in place even with Nick's whereabouts unknown is if Christine is sure he won't be turning up alive.

[Cheri_G]

Do you remember which poster, Cheri?

IMO.
M.

No but I do remember discussion about who found found the AFF account and how they managed it when there were so many to go through. Not sure about the other accounts but it all came about around the same time. It might take a while but I'll see if I can track it down.

[Cheri_G]

It was first posted on Cheri's board in an message form Pauli that May posted trying to show that Pauli was taking credit for finding the secret that the LE said they found. In that message it said that he was sleeping with men and women. From there is spread.

Actually I believe the chain of events was...

Somebody posted a link (possibly to one of the adult accounts, I don't remember) at WS. HOH then posted it here at IS, (I think it got deleteld) and as a result that post and some others concerning the alleged secret life made here that PM thing then happened at the Corner.

[Cury-us Coyote]

If the "secret life" was the bank account, it seems it would have been found relatively early in the investigation. Or maybe it was the finding of the bank account that opened up the whole "secret life" discussion. Once LE found the bank account that wife didn't know about, the floodgates opened with all the accusations about FF, naked photos, sex clubs, etc. So someone (not LE) made the leap from bank account to everything else.

At the time, I went to every ATM machine in the vicinity of his work oh, within a ten-block area. I went to every little mom-and-pop and 7-11 type store, as well as the banks and grocery stores. The only ATM where he could have made a $50 withdrawal was at Bank of America a few blocks up from his work, based on the withdrawal amount and fee amount. All those ATMs have cameras, but I believe all ATMs have cameras. Even if he made the withdrawal in some other part of the city, we know that LE most likely has a photo of him making that withdrawal. (as I recall, though, he made the w/d within a few minutes of his last sighting by a co-worker near work)

So as far as we know, he left work and drove up to the bank to make a withdrawal, and LE has evidence of these actions.

Everything after that is conjecture. There hasn't been any evidence of sex clubs, naked typing, lovers, dates, affairs, etc etc etc. God knows we spent hours and hours poring over the photo of the naked torso on the office chair wife insisted was in their study. We were even distracted to the point of analyzing photos of pumpkins to see if he may have been in the same group of swingers with Scully. IMO the obsession with a "secret life" is an unfounded diversion that takes us further and further away from the truth. IMO

As Musterion said above, the really interesting question is where do these allegations come from? and why? I wish we could figure that out.

To better understand the source of the allegations and their purpose, it might be helpful to identify which information was immediately deleted, which information remained, and who had the ability and desire to achieve those actions.
jmo

[Cheri_G]

To better understand the source of the allegations and their purpose, it might be helpful to identify which information was immediately deleted, which information remained, and who had the ability and desire to achieve those actions.
jmo

Reading back through some old stuff it would appear that the info regarding Nick having adult accounts and meeting both men and women for sex IRL orginated with Christine.

ETA: When the AFF account was posted which I believe happend at WS first, assuming my memory isn't failing me, it was presented as something that the OP had found rather than something they had got from Christine.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Remember the 'paper trail'? It was said that, somehow, the PayPal account showed that Nicholas had an AFF membership for years. Alluding that this account was where he paid for that membership.

Do we have proof of that document? That membership somewhere? A screen shot or anything?

IMO.
M.

IRRC the document (even in a largely redacted format) and alleged tapes have never been disclosed, IMO. Another outstanding why?

[Musterion]

It was first posted on Cheri's board in an message form Pauli that May posted trying to show that Pauli was taking credit for finding the secret that the LE said they found. In that message it said that he was sleeping with men and women. From there is spread.

Morning, SD!

Do you remember the date that that happened? Or could you find that info?

I think it is important in the timeline of events.

Thank you!

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

No but I do remember discussion about who found found the AFF account and how they managed it when there were so many to go through. Not sure about the other accounts but it all came about around the same time. It might take a while but I'll see if I can track it down.

Thanks, Cheri.

I think it might yield a lot of answers.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

5/11/2008

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2562&page=29

Post 289

"This is the information collected by a great group of researchers that has been passsed on to LE. I want to thank the posters at WS for all of their efforts in collecting information. They have done an amazing job."

It seems from this post Harlett made that the information came from WS.

I wish Mystry would post because she made some posts here, on IS, that I can't find and want to confirm what was said. Mystry had been over on WS helping with finding info on AFF, etc. at that time. IIRC, it was LionRun and RKnowley as well.

I'll have to go over to WS, when I have time, around the above date and read to see who began the investigation and where they got the info.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

is this post:

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2562&page=30

Post 294

"Thank you LionRun, but it took the help from you, RKnowly, MysteryPhobia, SilverDove and a few others searching for information to put this all together as quickly as it was. You have done some fantastic researching, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack with all the information on the web. It would have taken one person a long time to find what has been found so far. That's why it's so important when people can work together to get to an answer that just may help find someone that is missing sooner rather than later."

LionRun, Rknowly, Mystry and SilverDove, plus a few others found this information according to this post.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

is this post:

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2562&page=30

Post 294

"Thank you LionRun, but it took the help from you, RKnowly, MysteryPhobia, SilverDove and a few others searching for information to put this all together as quickly as it was. You have done some fantastic researching, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack with all the information on the web. It would have taken one person a long time to find what has been found so far. That's why it's so important when people can work together to get to an answer that just may help find someone that is missing sooner rather than later."

LionRun, Rknowly, Mystry and SilverDove, plus a few others found this information according to this post.

IMO.
M.

And they found what? the AFF membership or the picture?

Oh never mind - the AFF membership.

[RainyNiteNTx]

is this post:

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2562&page=30

Post 294

"Thank you LionRun, but it took the help from you, RKnowly, MysteryPhobia, SilverDove and a few others searching for information to put this all together as quickly as it was. You have done some fantastic researching, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack with all the information on the web. It would have taken one person a long time to find what has been found so far. That's why it's so important when people can work together to get to an answer that just may help find someone that is missing sooner rather than later."

LionRun, Rknowly, Mystry and SilverDove, plus a few others found this information according to this post.

IMO.
M.

How wonderful it would be if people would jump in so readily to try and help find Nicholas as they did when trying to find out about the AFF membership. Seems after that, everyone chalked him up to being a no good cad who walked out on Christine and that sentiment is still here today. Sad. JMO

[need2no]

I'm taking a quick break from painting and just wanted to add a few things along the lines of what y'all are discussing.


Question to Detective Holland-
What is the source of the "secret life" information? Did Christine inform LE? Did someone else, if so who - not who as in giving us names, but a "reliable source" etc.? Or was it based on information that was discovered through your investigation? Discovered by me
(per Det. Holland) Discovered in an email to him, or a phone call to him, perhaps?

Posted at WS ( by R Knowley) - March 27th:
His wife is now publically saying that Nicholas was leading a “secret life” and that leads us even further away from a foul play theory.
Did he leave voluntarily? Perhaps. Information has come to light that he was keeping some secrets from his wife, and she has now declined to do any further media interviews.
Sgt. John Urquhart

Why did Urquhart say his wife is now publically saying....? Why did Urquhart say "come to light", instead of saying we have discovered, if in fact 'they' did discover this info?

A little play on words by LE?
IMHO LE 'discovered' this information when it was given to them by someone, not from investigation they personally conducted. I wonder if they even followed up to confirm this as fact. And if they did, obviously they wouldn't come out in public and call someone, (especially a 'distraught' pregnant woman/mother) a liar after determining there was no validity to any secrets.

Again IMO, most LE agencies readily publicly take credit for their work, therefore I did not, and do not believe they were the ones to discover any of this 'secret life' information. Additionally I found it strange if LE had information about a secret bank account, and membership in adult clubs that this would not be enough information to sway them to think it was leaning toward Nic may have walked, and to say as much to the public. Goodness knows we have seen LE state publicly in many other cases about memberships to adult clubs, but not in this case for some reason.

A lot of info about who discovered what can be found on PART 20 at CC.

This case is mind boggling......


IMO,

N2N

[need2no]

I tried to edit my post after re-reading it...edit feature would not come up for some reason. :shrug:

To clarify...

I think LE may have spoken publicly after being provided some info, and before they confirmed anything, and therefore when they checked out the information given to them they found it, (if there was anything) to be blown out of proportion, or nothing to substaniate what they were being told. Once the info was out there it would have been awkward at best to come back and say the wife, or whoever shared the 'discovered' info was mistaken, confused, or grabbing at straws so they just left it as it was and went silent publicly. IIRC nothing further was ever stated by LE regarding a 'secret life'.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I tried to edit my post after re-reading it...edit feature would not come up for some reason. :shrug:

To clarify...

I think LE may have spoken publicly after being provided some info, and before they confirmed anything, and therefore when they checked out the information given to them they found it, (if there was anything) to be blown out of proportion, or nothing to substaniate what they were being told. Once the info was out there it would have been awkward at best to come back and say the wife, or whoever shared the 'discovered' info was mistaken, confused, or grabbing at straws so they just left it as it was and went silent publicly. IIRC nothing further was ever stated by LE regarding a 'secret life'.

When I initially asked how the AFF membership came up, SD stated on this thread that members of AFF contacted LE. If that is the case what were the ones mentioned on WS looking for? Did AFF members contact LE or did HOH and her group find the membership? If HOH and her group found the membership, what made them even think to look at that? I'm back to my original question. :huh:

[Cheri_G]

When I initially asked how the AFF membership came up, SD stated on this thread that members of AFF contacted LE. If that is the case what were the ones mentioned on WS looking for? Did AFF members contact LE or did HOH and her group find the membership? If HOH and her group found the membership, what made them even think to look at that? I'm back to my original question. :huh:

And what made them look for accounts using the name Steven instead of Nick or Nicholas? Maybe Christine found something at home, possibly on the home computer that she was able to give HOH as a starting point on where to look and what to look for??

[RainyNiteNTx]

And what made them look for accounts using the name Steven instead of Nick or Nicholas? Maybe Christine found something at home, possibly on the home computer that she was able to give HOH as a starting point on where to look and what to look for??



Well yeah - good question. And I thought AFF memberships were very private - can the general public look to see if someone has a membership?

[RainyNiteNTx]

And what made them look for accounts using the name Steven instead of Nick or Nicholas? Maybe Christine found something at home, possibly on the home computer that she was able to give HOH as a starting point on where to look and what to look for??



But WHYYYYYY would Nicholas have things like that on the home computer when he had a laptop that he kept with him at all times? That makes no sense. IMO

[need2no]

When I initially asked how the AFF membership came up, SD stated on this thread that members of AFF contacted LE. If that is the case what were the ones mentioned on WS looking for? Did AFF members contact LE or did HOH and her group find the membership? If HOH and her group found the membership, what made them even think to look at that? I'm back to my original question. :huh:


Per HOH-
So to answer some questions, LE found the original information of Nicholas' secret life. That info was passed on to Christine. From there we began to search to see what, if anything, could be found. All information that has been found has been given to LE. Any and all further information will also be given to them. Hopefully at some point we can find the answers to where Nicholas is or what has happened to him.

http://www.cherigriffiths.com/phpbb3/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=1603&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=9efa66de95469adab31e6dce11f9521f&start=15


Hope this helps answer your question Rainy...gotta run for now.

N2N

[need2no]

But WHYYYYYY would Nicholas have things like that on the home computer when he had a laptop that he kept with him at all times? That makes no sense. IMO



Even IF he did, Christine, or whoever would need Nic's password to access this info. If my hubby wanted to read what I write at this board, or any other board, he wouldn't be able to do so without my Login and password. Furthermore if I had anything to hide I sure as heck would NOT have my logins and passwords written down ANYWHERE.

if y'all keep this up I'm never going to finish my painting today. :ohmy:

[Cheri_G]

Well yeah - good question. And I thought AFF memberships were very private - can the general public look to see if someone has a membership?

Not unless they know the username on the account. There is no way to search for given names that would have been needed to purchase an account.

The only thing you could do is scroll through every account for your area and see if you recognize anybody. No easy task given what most of the user pics are, LOL.

[Cury-us Coyote]

You're right, Cheri.

IIRC they did not have a 'home' computer? They each had a laptop? Is that true? Maybe not.

As much as Christine was on the internet, I think she may have worn her computer like a wedding ring, too.

IMO.
M.

Reportedly Nicholas' computer was a MAC. Do we know if CFC's was as well????

[Cheri_G]

But WHYYYYYY would Nicholas have things like that on the home computer when he had a laptop that he kept with him at all times? That makes no sense. IMO

I don't know, but Christine posted on her blog way back in the begining that Nick's email was on a server she could access from her computer and that she had his password. She checked all his emails and found nothing that could link to his disappearance. So if she found something it apparently wasn't from any emails he'd been sending and receiving.

[Cury-us Coyote]

I don't know, but Christine posted on her blog way back in the begining that Nick's email was on a server she could access from her computer and that she had his password. She checked all his emails and found nothing that could link to his disappearance. So if she found something it apparently wasn't from any emails he'd been sending and receiving.

IMO, emails would remain on that accessible server ONLY until deleted or otherwise downloaded to a laptop or other device.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Even IF he did, Christine, or whoever would need Nic's password to access this info. If my hubby wanted to read what I write at this board, or any other board, he wouldn't be able to do so without my Login and password. Furthermore if I had anything to hide I sure as heck would NOT have my logins and passwords written down ANYWHERE.

if y'all keep this up I'm never going to finish my painting today. :ohmy:

Hey N2N - sorry about your painting project lol.
Same here - I don't think anybody doing anything wrong would leave passwords laying around.

[Starkist]

Hey N2N - sorry about your painting project lol.
Same here - I don't think anybody doing anything wrong would leave passwords laying around.

Nor would you use one anyone could possibly guess.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I don't know, but Christine posted on her blog way back in the begining that Nick's email was on a server she could access from her computer and that she had his password. She checked all his emails and found nothing that could link to his disappearance. So if she found something it apparently wasn't from any emails he'd been sending and receiving.

If there was nothing in his emails, and if she had all of his passwords, and she could access everything of his due to a server, then why would he need to "wear his laptop like a wedding ring"?

[Starkist]

If there was nothing in his emails, and if she had all of his passwords, and she could access everything of his due to a server, then why would he need to "wear his laptop like a wedding ring"?

According to her, Nick was never without his laptop yet I have seen dozens of pics and even a video where it is nowhere near him...hmmmmmm....:glare:

[RainyNiteNTx]

Reportedly Nicholas' computer was a MAC. Do we know if CFC's was as well????

I don't know that we were ever told that information.

[Shelby1]

If there was nothing in his emails, and if she had all of his passwords, and she could access everything of his due to a server, then why would he need to "wear his laptop like a wedding ring"?

Exactly what I've thought all along.

As nosy ( and I mean this in the nicest way) as I've seen Christine be, I (IMO) doubt that Nicholas would take his 'puter into the bathroom or any other private place and do anything without her asking/looking/knowing what he was doing.

[Cheri_G]

According to her, Nick was never without his laptop yet I have seen dozens of pics and even a video where it is nowhere near him...hmmmmmm....:glare:

I guess the claim that Nick wore his computer like a wedding ring was a slight exaggeration then...

I wonder who came up with that.

[Shelby1]

I guess the claim that Nick wore his computer like a wedding ring was a slight exaggeration then...

I wonder who came up with that.

While we're on the "who came up with that" subject, I STILL want to know who came up with/and what the heck does

"leaves toast in the toaster" mean.????

[Cheri_G]

While we're on the "who came up with that" subject, I STILL want to know who came up with/and what the heck does

"leaves toast in the toaster" mean.????

LOL, maybe its another way of saying he left a bun in the oven!

[ginky41]

After spending some more time reading up on this case I am leaning toward the possibility that NF left on his own accord. My opinion is based solely on the fact that there has been no forensic evidence to suggest otherwise. With that said, I still can't fathom a motive. CF may not have been the easiest person to live with, certainly there are struggles in daily family life, especially with 2 young children and one on the way. But there didn't seem to be any reason for him to abandon his children completely. Who would do that? Even if they had a secret life as has been suggested about NF.

Great...now that I've typed that out I'm wondering about the possibility that NF did not leave willingly. I cannot make heads or tails of any of it. :confused:

[ginky41]

I don't know that if anyone else has posed a similar theory, but here is something I just thought about:

Maybe N and CF weren't getting along and decided to "end" their union. Maybe due to financial hardship NF suggested that he could just "disappear" thus dodging his responsibility for any outstanding bills, mortgage payments etc. Maybe they both thought that people would come out in droves to help support CF and the kids, both emotionally and financially if NF was "gone." And maybe NF promised to still see and provide for the kids under the table or under an alias.

Does that make sense how I explained it?

I guess I just wonder if they are in cahoots..... Maybe he is out there and maybe he still sees/supports the kids. And CF got out from underneath any bills and got to move on with her life with another man but the kids still get to see their dad. (I'm not suggesting that her new husband was involved before NF disappeared. Although if my theory were correct, hypothetically, he would know now.)

[need2no]

After spending some more time reading up on this case I am leaning toward the possibility that NF left on his own accord. My opinion is based solely on the fact that there has been no forensic evidence to suggest otherwise. With that said, I still can't fathom a motive. CF may not have been the easiest person to live with, certainly there are struggles in daily family life, especially with 2 young children and one on the way. But there didn't seem to be any reason for him to abandon his children completely. Who would do that? Even if they had a secret life as has been suggested about NF.

Great...now that I've typed that out I'm wondering about the possibility that NF did not leave willingly. I cannot make heads or tails of any of it. :confused:

Right.... abandon his children, his family, his friends, his career, his dog, his home and personal belongings, his websites, his identification and so on.

[need2no]

I don't know that if anyone else has posed a similar theory, but here is something I just thought about:

Maybe N and CF weren't getting along and decided to "end" their union. Maybe due to financial hardship NF suggested that he could just "disappear" thus dodging his responsibility for any outstanding bills, mortgage payments etc. Maybe they both thought that people would come out in droves to help support CF and the kids, both emotionally and financially if NF was "gone." And maybe NF promised to still see and provide for the kids under the table or under an alias.

Does that make sense how I explained it?

I guess I just wonder if they are in cahoots..... Maybe he is out there and maybe he still sees/supports the kids. And CF got out from underneath any bills and got to move on with her life with another man but the kids still get to see their dad. (I'm not suggesting that her new husband was involved before NF disappeared. Although if my theory were correct, hypothetically, he would know now.)


Yes, you explained your thoughts well and this theory was tossed around by many of us following the case. If this was what happened I've got to give them credit for pulling it off, so far. But if they get caught they will have a lot more to worry about than financial problems. It seems to me filing bankruptcy and starting off with a clean slate would be preferable. And it would also seem Nicholas got the short end of the stick in this deal if this is indeed what happened.

[Starkist]

Kids and honesty go hand in hand and I doubt Zea could hold onto that secret this long without telling anyone. C would have to keep her under glass and away from the english speaking world.

[RainyNiteNTx]

According to her, Nick was never without his laptop yet I have seen dozens of pics and even a video where it is nowhere near him...hmmmmmm....:glare:

I never thought about this, but you're right. There were many many pictures of Nicholas and the laptop was not strapped to his back or even laying beside him.

[n/t]

Does anyone remember if Nick had a cellphone? Having a mental block this morning.:mellow:

[Cheri_G]

Does anyone remember if Nick had a cellphone? Having a mental block this morning.:mellow:

Hi n/t,

Yes he did. It went missing along with Nick and his laptop.

[n/t]

Hi n/t,

Yes he did. It went missing along with Nick and his laptop.

Thanks Cheri. I remember the laptop but I couldn't remember the cellphone.

Interesting. Would someone who would want to leave his life behind, his wife, children, job,,take his laptop and cellphone and $50.00? No clothes, no car, no other personal belongings except a laptop and cellphone?

Doesn't make any sense.

[need2no]

Thanks Cheri. I remember the laptop but I couldn't remember the cellphone.

Interesting. Would someone who would want to leave his life behind, his wife, children, job,,take his laptop and cellphone and $50.00? No clothes, no car, no other personal belongings except a laptop and cellphone?

Doesn't make any sense.

Hey n/t!

Remember all the hoopla about getting the cell phone recs. LE said they couldn't get a warrant to serve on the cell phone carrier since there was no evidence of a crime. Many of us wondered why Christine couldn't access these recs from her computer. Finally near the end of February Christine was able to get the recs and stated she had given them to LE. Strange....we never heard if there was anything suspicious or informative on those phone records.

One things for sure...if Nic walked he would have no use for his (employer plan) cell phone. He would know LE could track him this way, so the phone was useless.

[ginky41]

Yes, you explained your thoughts well and this theory was tossed around by many of us following the case. If this was what happened I've got to give them credit for pulling it off, so far. But if they get caught they will have a lot more to worry about than financial problems. It seems to me filing bankruptcy and starting off with a clean slate would be preferable. And it would also seem Nicholas got the short end of the stick in this deal if this is indeed what happened.

I agree. I'm no super-sleuth, by any means, I was just trying to come up with a possible explanation. Hadn't thought about the kids being able to keep a secret...good point there.

N2N I know you've done a lot of research and put together the 20 part read over at Cheri's site....you know a whole lot more about this case than I do, what do you think happened?

[Starkist]

Hey n/t!

Remember all the hoopla about getting the cell phone recs. LE said they couldn't get a warrant to serve on the cell phone carrier since there was no evidence of a crime. Many of us wondered why Christine couldn't access these recs from her computer. Finally near the end of February Christine was able to get the recs and stated she had given them to LE. Strange....we never heard if there was anything suspicious or informative on those phone records.

One things for sure...if Nic walked he would have no use for his (employer plan) cell phone. He would know LE could track him this way, so the phone was useless.

He had a TMobile account and a Razr phone. I thought it odd how C could have passwords to all his other sites but not his cell phone site. Made no sense to me. I can pull up my son's cell record anytime being I have his password. Nick's phone was his IIRC and he was given a discount through his employer because TMobile was one of their advertising accounts. The only thing we heard as a result of the records found was the call around 4:17 PM or thereabouts. We don't know if it was incoming or outgoing but something else odd about that is even if his phone was dead, there'd be record of people who tried to call him as the phone would go directly to voicemail. Just because the phone is dead, does not mean no one can attempt to call it. I don't know how valid her claims are about his calls that day.

[CC I See]

I don't know that if anyone else has posed a similar theory, but here is something I just thought about:

Maybe N and CF weren't getting along and decided to "end" their union. Maybe due to financial hardship NF suggested that he could just "disappear" thus dodging his responsibility for any outstanding bills, mortgage payments etc. Maybe they both thought that people would come out in droves to help support CF and the kids, both emotionally and financially if NF was "gone." And maybe NF promised to still see and provide for the kids under the table or under an alias.

Does that make sense how I explained it?

I guess I just wonder if they are in cahoots..... Maybe he is out there and maybe he still sees/supports the kids. And CF got out from underneath any bills and got to move on with her life with another man but the kids still get to see their dad. (I'm not suggesting that her new husband was involved before NF disappeared. Although if my theory were correct, hypothetically, he would know now.)

A few of us who have been following this case since he first went missing thought that, "yes" he must of walked away. I am not sure about the other posters but I have looked at the evidence and believe that this is no longer true. He must of met with foul play. He would not have put his family through the pain and misery they have lived through since he went missing. Although it is possible, it is very difficult for someone to walk away from one life to start another one without help. So far, there has been no trace of that, "help".

[ginky41]

A few of us who have been following this case since he first went missing thought that, "yes" he must of walked away. I am not sure about the other posters but I have looked at the evidence and believe that this is no longer true. He must of met with foul play. He would not have put his family through the pain and misery they have lived through since he went missing. Although it is possible, it is very difficult for someone to walk away from one life to start another one without help. So far, there has been no trace of that, "help".

Thank you for your response. It was hard for me to tell from reading the boards what most people were thinking regarding his disappearance. This one is so perplexing....although most of them I follow are. :confused:

[Cury-us Coyote]

Does anyone know exactly when the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco became the one and apparently ONLY Cold Case of the current decade in the King County inventory of cases assigned to the Cold Case Squad of Major Crimes?

[Starkist]

Does anyone know exactly when the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco became the one and apparently ONLY Cold Case of the current decade in the King County inventory of cases assigned to the Cold Case Squad of Major Crimes?

Feb. 14, 2008? :sad:

Seems the case went cold rather quickly, IMO.

[Cury-us Coyote]

Feb. 14, 2008? :sad:

Seems the case went cold rather quickly, IMO.

Alrighty then...........maybe I should have inserted the word "officially" in the question.

[Starkist]

I am sorry Cury. I am just so frustrated with this case! The website doesn't give an "added to list" date?

[Cheri_G]

Does anyone know exactly when the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco became the one and apparently ONLY Cold Case of the current decade in the King County inventory of cases assigned to the Cold Case Squad of Major Crimes?

I don't know when Nick's case was added to the site. They do state on there that the cases listed are not all the cold cases they have. They are adding them to the site when time allows. Nick's case is the first one listed for this decade, but I suspect its not the only one.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Okay, There have been so many statements that Christine said......

He would never leave them
If he did leave them, he would take them with him
He would never walk off and leave his artwork
He might be in or near water
It might mean he was in Mexico sipping margaritas
Rumors of California


If we throw out everything she ever suggested - what do we have?

It is a mind boggling question because if we discard all of the scenarios she suggested, we have nothing. We have a coworker who last saw him around 6 pm.....we have his car found a few days later in Federal Way....then nothing.

[Starkist]

If we discard all those scenarios offered up by C, we have what appears to be a man who left against his own free will.

[Musterion]

Feb. 14, 2008? :sad:

Seems the case went cold rather quickly, IMO.

A friend of mine said that the case was so cold it was frozen.

I agree with that.

But, sometimes frozen things can be thawed out, and quickly, depending on the amount of heat used.

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

Alrighty then...........maybe I should have inserted the word "officially" in the question.

Hi Cury,

Officially, as in 'in house' with LE, I don't know.

But, the Cold Case Unit was started in April 2009, according to this article.

"April 1, 2009 12:52 PM
King County sheriff starts cold case unit
Posted by Nick Provenza
A Justice Department grant is funding a cold case unit in the King County sheriff's office.

The grant will pay for two detectives and an analyst and expenses for 18 months.

They are reviewing 193 unsolved homicide and missing person cases dating back to 1942.

They'll tackle the cases most likely to be solved with DNA or other new forensic testing.

Until now unsolved homicides were handled by the sheriff's major crimes detectives."

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/crime/2009/04/01/king_county_sheriff_starts_col.html

IMO.
M.

[Postergeist]

o/t just wanted to wish Cheri a very happy birthday and to let you know I have a bd thread for you here-

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13475590#post13475590

:wub:

[Musterion]

Okay, There have been so many statements that Christine said......

He would never leave them
If he did leave them, he would take them with him
He would never walk off and leave his artwork
He might be in or near water
It might mean he was in Mexico sipping margaritas
Rumors of California


If we throw out everything she ever suggested - what do we have?

It is a mind boggling question because if we discard all of the scenarios she suggested, we have nothing. We have a coworker who last saw him around 6 pm.....we have his car found a few days later in Federal Way....then nothing.

You're right, Rainy. Mind boggling.

This bothers me, as well.

"also his laptop and cell phone were NOT in the car and though there is no physical sign of foul play we all know, even the detective, that this is foul play. please pray."

This was said when his car was found. Around 18 February, on Etsy.

We ALL know, even the detective, that it is foul play.

I don't understand.

IMO.
M.

[invreporter1105]

Does anyone know exactly when the disappearance of Nicholas Francisco became the one and apparently ONLY Cold Case of the current decade in the King County inventory of cases assigned to the Cold Case Squad of Major Crimes?

I don't know CuC, but thanks for sharing this information. I had no clue that NF's case was listed under the cold cases.

[AlicePalace]

I've been following this case since February 2008, but haven't commented about anything until now. I check in every so often, hoping to read that Nicholas Francisco has been found alive and well, living under an assumed name with a new life. Honestly, I think that's how this story will end. I hope so, at least.

I lived in Washington state until the mid 1990s, and find that Christine Francisco Carter to be representative of a certain time of woman you often encounter in that region. She's attractive, tends toward hysteria, and frankly, seems not all that bright. I get the feeling that despite all of her claims to be a master manipulator, she generally acts without thinking and then tries to reverse the impact of her actions by throwing fits, begging for sympathy, and straight-up lying. I would bet money that she's reading my words right now, as we all know she loves to Google her own name, and I suspect gets a secret kick out of her infamy, because she loves attention in any and all forms.

In the taped interview she gave a year after Nicholas' disappearance, you could see her eyes flash every time she spoke about finding the man. She didn't give the impression of a woman who wanted to uncover the fate of a person she'd once loved, but rather someone who sought revenge for making her look foolish and unwanted. I suspect that she's always known more about cracks in her relationship and possible reasons Nicholas might have left than she has let on, but initially relished playing the role of damsel in distress. When that got old, she got into the role of scorned lover and slandered her former husband. And when that wasn't putting bread on the table, returned to the role of damsel in distress and found herself a new breadwinner. Given the woman's apparent propensity for drama, I suspect that her new relationship won't last all that long, either.

As I said before, I suspect we haven't seen the last of Nicholas Francisco, but we definitely haven't seen the last of Christine Francisco Carter. As soon as she gets settled in from that cross-country move and gets her internet access back, there's going to be plenty more trash-talking to go around. All you can hope is that the people who matter will ignore it, and that Nicholas Francisco has finally found some peace.

[Cury-us Coyote]

I don't know CuC, but thanks for sharing this information. I had no clue that NF's case was listed under the cold cases.


Cold Case Cowboys
Meet the "retired" homicide detectives who don't believe in dead ends
(Douglas Co Oregon, volunteers, spouse's encouraged, sense of right & wrong, 2 days a wk, study case files, reconstruct victim's life, passage of time benefits)
http://www.aarpmagazine.org/people/cold_case_cowboys.html

Other Posses
http://www.aarpmagazine.org/people/cold_case_other_posses.html?print=yes

[RainyNiteNTx]

I've been following this case since February 2008, but haven't commented about anything until now. I check in every so often, hoping to read that Nicholas Francisco has been found alive and well, living under an assumed name with a new life. Honestly, I think that's how this story will end. I hope so, at least.

I lived in Washington state until the mid 1990s, and find that Christine Francisco Carter to be representative of a certain time of woman you often encounter in that region. She's attractive, tends toward hysteria, and frankly, seems not all that bright. I get the feeling that despite all of her claims to be a master manipulator, she generally acts without thinking and then tries to reverse the impact of her actions by throwing fits, begging for sympathy, and straight-up lying. I would bet money that she's reading my words right now, as we all know she loves to Google her own name, and I suspect gets a secret kick out of her infamy, because she loves attention in any and all forms.

In the taped interview she gave a year after Nicholas' disappearance, you could see her eyes flash every time she spoke about finding the man. She didn't give the impression of a woman who wanted to uncover the fate of a person she'd once loved, but rather someone who sought revenge for making her look foolish and unwanted. I suspect that she's always known more about cracks in her relationship and possible reasons Nicholas might have left than she has let on, but initially relished playing the role of damsel in distress. When that got old, she got into the role of scorned lover and slandered her former husband. And when that wasn't putting bread on the table, returned to the role of damsel in distress and found herself a new breadwinner. Given the woman's apparent propensity for drama, I suspect that her new relationship won't last all that long, either.

As I said before, I suspect we haven't seen the last of Nicholas Francisco, but we definitely haven't seen the last of Christine Francisco Carter. As soon as she gets settled in from that cross-country move and gets her internet access back, there's going to be plenty more trash-talking to go around. All you can hope is that the people who matter will ignore it, and that Nicholas Francisco has finally found some peace.

I don't think personalities like Christine has are limited to Washington state.

[Musterion]

I don't think personalities like Christine has are limited to Washington state.

Thank you, Rainy. On behalf of all Washingtonian women, I thank you!

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I've been following this case since February 2008, but haven't commented about anything until now. I check in every so often, hoping to read that Nicholas Francisco has been found alive and well, living under an assumed name with a new life. Honestly, I think that's how this story will end. I hope so, at least.

I lived in Washington state until the mid 1990s, and find that Christine Francisco Carter to be representative of a certain time of woman you often encounter in that region. She's attractive, tends toward hysteria, and frankly, seems not all that bright. I get the feeling that despite all of her claims to be a master manipulator, she generally acts without thinking and then tries to reverse the impact of her actions by throwing fits, begging for sympathy, and straight-up lying. I would bet money that she's reading my words right now, as we all know she loves to Google her own name, and I suspect gets a secret kick out of her infamy, because she loves attention in any and all forms.

In the taped interview she gave a year after Nicholas' disappearance, you could see her eyes flash every time she spoke about finding the man. She didn't give the impression of a woman who wanted to uncover the fate of a person she'd once loved, but rather someone who sought revenge for making her look foolish and unwanted. I suspect that she's always known more about cracks in her relationship and possible reasons Nicholas might have left than she has let on, but initially relished playing the role of damsel in distress. When that got old, she got into the role of scorned lover and slandered her former husband. And when that wasn't putting bread on the table, returned to the role of damsel in distress and found herself a new breadwinner. Given the woman's apparent propensity for drama, I suspect that her new relationship won't last all that long, either.

As I said before, I suspect we haven't seen the last of Nicholas Francisco, but we definitely haven't seen the last of Christine Francisco Carter. As soon as she gets settled in from that cross-country move and gets her internet access back, there's going to be plenty more trash-talking to go around. All you can hope is that the people who matter will ignore it, and that Nicholas Francisco has finally found some peace.

Hello AlicePalace!

Welcome to the board!

You know. You may be right about all your perceptions (well, except that Washington comment :sad: ), but this what I think...

No matter Nicholas' issues, problems, addictions, personality, etc.

No matter Christine's issues, problems, additions, personality, etc.

Nicholas is missing. He is gone. LE said it was a fifty/fifty chance that he met with foul play or that he left on his own.

But, the last thing they 'said' was that he is a Cold Case. And, listed him as such on their Cold Case website. The criteria to be listed on the CC site is specific. IMO. Nicholas would not be listed there if they did not lean more toward foul play.

Many people have characteristics as you've listed that Christine seems to portray. After a year and a half those attributes matter less, to me, than the facts of how quickly she moved, moved on, married and then moved out of state. Christine could have any personality in the world, but, IMO, those things raise a warning flag. The lies and contradictions that some have experienced only add to that suspicion.

All JMO.
M.

[Musterion]

o/t just wanted to wish Cheri a very happy birthday and to let you know I have a bd thread for you here-

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13475590#post13475590

:wub:

Oh Cheri!!

I hope it was a great birthday!!

IMO.
M.

[Cury-us Coyote]

<snipped for focus>

Nicholas is missing. He is gone. LE said it was a fifty/fifty chance that he met with foul play or that he left on his own.

But, the last thing they 'said' was that he is a Cold Case. And, listed him as such on their Cold Case website. The criteria to be listed on the CC site is specific. IMO. Nicholas would not be listed there if they did not lean more toward foul play.

Many people have characteristics as you've listed that Christine seems to portray. After a year and a half those attributes matter less, to me, than the facts of how quickly she moved, moved on, married and then moved out of state. Christine could have any personality in the world, but, IMO, those things raise a warning flag. The lies and contradictions that some have experienced only add to that suspicion.

All JMO.
M.

Detectives reopen cold cases, look to public for help

Sheehan's case is one of 193 homicide cases and missing person cases believed to be homicides getting another look from the Sheriff's Office and being categorized by solvability. The work is made possible by a grant from the National Institute of Justice, part of the Justice Department, which covers pay for detectives Scott Tompkins and Jake Pavlovich, analyst Tom Jensen and other investigation costs.
...
HAVE A TIP FOR DETECTIVES?

Contact Det. Jake Pavlovich at 206-205-7887 or by e-mail at john.pavlovich@kingcounty.gov.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/405333_coldcase21ww.html

[MystryPhobia]

If we discard all those scenarios offered up by C, we have what appears to be a man who left against his own free will.

If we discard all that she said then we aren't left with "he left against his own free will "either. She started out saying that he would never leave them. That she knew something bad had happened to him.. etc. etc.

If we take Christine out of this scenerio.. as a possible suspect.. and we listen to what her gut intinct was at the time that he didn't come home.. then I think it is very possible that something terrible happened to Nicholas that night or soon after.

I don't think that Christine had anytihng to do with why Nicholas disappeared THAT night. I could be wrong about that. That is just how I have always felt. I don't think it was possible. She was on the phone with a friend most of the night and called the friend immediately when Nicholas didn't come home that night.. This same friend went down to Queen Anne to look for Nicholas' car. Then the police were called. Christine was told to give him a couple hours and then to call back.

I am not saying that Christine didn't know things weren't right in her home or that something might be coming. I'm just saying.. I don't think he came home and was murdered by her that night. JMO

[MystryPhobia]

Thank you, Rainy. On behalf of all Washingtonian women, I thank you!

IMO.
M.

I second this. LOL

[n/t]

Detectives reopen cold cases, look to public for help

Sheehan's case is one of 193 homicide cases and missing person cases believed to be homicides getting another look from the Sheriff's Office and being categorized by solvability. The work is made possible by a grant from the National Institute of Justice, part of the Justice Department, which covers pay for detectives Scott Tompkins and Jake Pavlovich, analyst Tom Jensen and other investigation costs.
...
HAVE A TIP FOR DETECTIVES?

Contact Det. Jake Pavlovich at 206-205-7887 or by e-mail at john.pavlovich@kingcounty.gov.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/405333_coldcase21ww.html

There's still hope for Nick!

[n/t]

If we discard all that she said then we aren't left with "he left against his own free will "either. She started out saying that he would never leave them. That she knew something bad had happened to him.. etc. etc.

If we take Christine out of this scenerio.. as a possible suspect.. and we listen to what her gut intinct was at the time that he didn't come home.. then I think it is very possible that something terrible happened to Nicholas that night or soon after.

I don't think that Christine had anytihng to do with why Nicholas disappeared THAT night. I could be wrong about that. That is just how I have always felt. I don't think it was possible. She was on the phone with a friend most of the night and called the friend immediately when Nicholas didn't come home that night.. This same friend went down to Queen Anne to look for Nicholas' car. Then the police were called. Christine was told to give him a couple hours and then to call back.

I am not saying that Christine didn't know things weren't right in her home or that something might be coming. I'm just saying.. I don't think he came home and was murdered by her that night. JMO

Well that's interesting. I always thought you believed Nick was a lying, cheating husband who took off on his family willingly and his ex wife was a victim.

Wow. Change of heart? Just curious.

[AlicePalace]

Thank you, Rainy. On behalf of all Washingtonian women, I thank you!

IMO.
M.

Hey, I still count myself amongst that group. You can take the gal out of Washington, but you can't take the Washington out the the gal. I don't mean to imply that Christine Francisco Carter is representative of all the women who live in that state, merely that she's representative of a certain type I've found to be somewhat noticeable there, especially in the Seattle area. I know there are dim, bible-thumping hipsters all over the country, but Seattle has more than its fair share.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Thank you, Rainy. On behalf of all Washingtonian women, I thank you!

IMO.
M.

You're vedry welcome :wink:

[RainyNiteNTx]

If we discard all that she said then we aren't left with "he left against his own free will "either. She started out saying that he would never leave them. That she knew something bad had happened to him.. etc. etc.

If we take Christine out of this scenerio.. as a possible suspect.. and we listen to what her gut intinct was at the time that he didn't come home.. then I think it is very possible that something terrible happened to Nicholas that night or soon after.

I don't think that Christine had anytihng to do with why Nicholas disappeared THAT night. I could be wrong about that. That is just how I have always felt. I don't think it was possible. She was on the phone with a friend most of the night and called the friend immediately when Nicholas didn't come home that night.. This same friend went down to Queen Anne to look for Nicholas' car. Then the police were called. Christine was told to give him a couple hours and then to call back.

I am not saying that Christine didn't know things weren't right in her home or that something might be coming. I'm just saying.. I don't think he came home and was murdered by her that night. JMO

Hey MP - good to see you. IIRC, In a recent post made by Elf, he/she/they stated that Christine had been alone all night the night NF went missing. Wasn't her sister living with her at the time?

[Starkist]

If we discard all that she said then we aren't left with "he left against his own free will "either. She started out saying that he would never leave them. That she knew something bad had happened to him.. etc. etc.

If we take Christine out of this scenerio.. as a possible suspect.. and we listen to what her gut intinct was at the time that he didn't come home.. then I think it is very possible that something terrible happened to Nicholas that night or soon after.

I don't think that Christine had anytihng to do with why Nicholas disappeared THAT night. I could be wrong about that. That is just how I have always felt. I don't think it was possible. She was on the phone with a friend most of the night and called the friend immediately when Nicholas didn't come home that night.. This same friend went down to Queen Anne to look for Nicholas' car. Then the police were called. Christine was told to give him a couple hours and then to call back.

I am not saying that Christine didn't know things weren't right in her home or that something might be coming. I'm just saying.. I don't think he came home and was murdered by her that night. JMO

Wow such a change of tune from the old song you had been singing against Nick. Not wanting to be graphic, I used the word "left" against his own free will. I do not believe this man is still alive and moreso believe he was murdered that night.

Makes me wonder why one would start calling friends only minutes after her husband is late, worried, unless she know something... Why was the friend merely looking for the car and not Nick himself?

It was already stated by LE that C did not call PD until 1 am Feb 14. All calls to PD are monitored and recorded so very hard to challenge that fact.

Are all statements she's made just a unfortunate choice of verbiage?

[RainyNiteNTx]

I think whenever a case is followed this long that opinions and theories are fluid - they will be ever changing as we find out more facts and details. JMO

[Musterion]

Detectives reopen cold cases, look to public for help

Sheehan's case is one of 193 homicide cases and missing person cases believed to be homicides getting another look from the Sheriff's Office and being categorized by solvability. The work is made possible by a grant from the National Institute of Justice, part of the Justice Department, which covers pay for detectives Scott Tompkins and Jake Pavlovich, analyst Tom Jensen and other investigation costs.
...
HAVE A TIP FOR DETECTIVES?

Contact Det. Jake Pavlovich at 206-205-7887 or by e-mail at john.pavlovich@kingcounty.gov.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/405333_coldcase21ww.html

As usual, Cury, information unearthed by you that is poignant and relevant.

I don't know what anyone else can say except that since Nicholas IS on that list, it would seem that LE believes it is not a run of the mill 'husband ran off' case. Why waste the grant money on that? They only have a grant for 18 months. If LE really leaned toward Nicholas being the man with the secret life who took off and hasn't looked back, I cannot reconcile in my mind why they would pursue any effort/money on his case.

Why do people look at this and dismiss it?

Thank you, Cury!!! Thank you, so much!

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

As usual, Cury, information unearthed by you that is poignant and relevant.

I don't know what anyone else can say except that since Nicholas IS on that list, it would seem that LE believes it is not a run of the mill 'husband ran off' case. Why waste the grant money on that? They only have a grant for 18 months. If LE really leaned toward Nicholas being the man with the secret life who took off and hasn't looked back, I cannot reconcile in my mind why they would pursue any effort/money on his case.

Why do people look at this and dismiss it?

Thank you, Cury!!! Thank you, so much!

IMO.
M.

(bold/highlight by me)
Because it does not fit their agenda M - because Nicholas is supposed to be the devil who deserted his children and wife after he was abusive to them.

[Musterion]

I second this. LOL

I'm so glad to see you, my friend. Absolutely, so glad!

Hugs,
M.

[Musterion]

there's still hope for nick!

yes!!!!

M.

[Musterion]

Hey, I still count myself amongst that group. You can take the gal out of Washington, but you can't take the Washington out the the gal. I don't mean to imply that Christine Francisco Carter is representative of all the women who live in that state, merely that she's representative of a certain type I've found to be somewhat noticeable there, especially in the Seattle area. I know there are dim, bible-thumping hipsters all over the country, but Seattle has more than its fair share.

LOL! Whew. Gotcha AP!

IMO.

[Musterion]

(bold/highlight by me)
Because it does not fit their agenda M - because Nicholas is supposed to be the devil who deserted his children and wife after he was abusive to them.

Hi Rainy,

It all became so convoluted. And, now, if Nicholas is dead, instead of an intense search for him and maybe being found with his body intact and not deteriorated, he, more than likely, is nothing but bones strewn around a greenbelt.

Whether Christine did something to Nicholas, had something done to Nicholas or not, the one thing that I believe she had a hand in was preventing Nicholas from being found quickly. From his body being found quickly.

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hi Rainy,

It all became so convoluted. And, now, if Nicholas is dead, instead of an intense search for him and maybe being found with his body intact and not deteriorated, he, more than likely, is nothing but bones strewn around a greenbelt.

Whether Christine did something to Nicholas, had something done to Nicholas or not, the one thing that I believe she had a hand in was preventing Nicholas from being found quickly. From his body being found quickly.
IMO.
M.

(bold by me)
Or Nicholas being found period - dead or alive. She focused all of the attention onto herself, but she could not do this without many people going along with it. This is the problem I've had all along with this case. It has never seemed to be about Nicholas missing, but about Christine being alone. JMO

[Musterion]

(bold by me)
Or Nicholas being found period - dead or alive. She focused all of the attention onto herself, but she could not do this without many people going along with it. This is the problem I've had all along with this case. It has never seemed to be about Nicholas missing, but about Christine being alone. JMO

Good morning, Rainy!

You're right, or Nicholas being found. Period.

Then, it leads us back to this:

Why would Christine not cooperate and participate with "48 Hours Mystery" to feature a story on Nicholas, almost immediately after he went missing?

Why would Christine not sign off on free billboards to go up around Seattle and where Nicholas went missing, immediately after Nicholas went missing and it was offered to her?

Why would Christine tell people that LE told her to say nothing to anyone regarding the case, yet, when emailed and asked if this was true the reply was that no, they had not asked her to not discuss the case?

IMO.
M.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Good morning, Rainy!

You're right, or Nicholas being found. Period.

Then, it leads us back to this:

Why would Christine not cooperate and participate with "48 Hours Mystery" to feature a story on Nicholas, almost immediately after he went missing?

Why would Christine not sign off on free billboards to go up around Seattle and where Nicholas went missing, immediately after Nicholas went missing and it was offered to her?

Why would Christine tell people that LE told her to say nothing to anyone regarding the case, yet, when emailed and asked if this was true the reply was that no, they had not asked her to not discuss the case?

IMO.
M.

If you didn't know better, you would think she did not want Nicholas found. But why would that be??:confused:

[AlicePalace]

Why would Christine not cooperate and participate with "48 Hours Mystery" to feature a story on Nicholas, almost immediately after he went missing?

Why would Christine not sign off on free billboards to go up around Seattle and where Nicholas went missing, immediately after Nicholas went missing and it was offered to her?

Why would Christine tell people that LE told her to say nothing to anyone regarding the case, yet, when emailed and asked if this was true the reply was that no, they had not asked her to not discuss the case?


All really excellent questions.

In many cases, I can see why a lot of people don't want to appear on camera and give extensive media interviews simply because they're quiet people who don't want to make their lives public. Nicholas Francisco's family has struck me as this type from the beginning- like they were horrified to find themselves thrust into the public eye. Christine Francisco, however, seems like anything but a shrinking violet.

As to the second question, that seems pretty inexplicable.

And the third? The woman who claims to be so clever and such a master manipulator clearly can't keep her stories straight.

[MystryPhobia]

Wow such a change of tune from the old song you had been singing against Nick. Not wanting to be graphic, I used the word "left" against his own free will. I do not believe this man is still alive and moreso believe he was murdered that night.

Makes me wonder why one would start calling friends only minutes after her husband is late, worried, unless she know something... Why was the friend merely looking for the car and not Nick himself?

It was already stated by LE that C did not call PD until 1 am Feb 14. All calls to PD are monitored and recorded so very hard to challenge that fact.

Are all statements she's made just a unfortunate choice of verbiage?

My opinions have really never changed. I said I didn't think that she had anything to do with him disappearing. I have also said that I have NO idea whether he is alive or not. Just because I went looking for reasons or excuses for him to have disappeared on his own.. doesn't mean that is what I believe happened or not. I, just like everyone else here, have no idea why he has disappeared. I think there was enough extra curricular activity found that could lead to reasons why he may have wanted out of his life and could have walked away. How 19 months have gone by without him showing up again, I can't imagine tho.

My point was only that Christine has said both things so we can't count on everything she says and make a broad statement that something she said proves one way or the other. She has stated both way.

She wasn't talking to her friend at 7 because her husband had gone missing. She was chatting with her friend and it had nothing to do with Nicholas. So.. to say she called minutes after her husband went missing is not being fair.

The friend drove down to Queen Anne to see if she could find Nicholas or his car. Are you implying that the friend was in on the murder that you say took place that night? Otherwise why would she lie about talking to Christine and going downtown to look for Nicholas.. especially when the calls could be easily checked.

[MystryPhobia]

Good morning, Rainy!

You're right, or Nicholas being found. Period.

Then, it leads us back to this:

Why would Christine not cooperate and participate with "48 Hours Mystery" to feature a story on Nicholas, almost immediately after he went missing?

Why would Christine not sign off on free billboards to go up around Seattle and where Nicholas went missing, immediately after Nicholas went missing and it was offered to her?

Why would Christine tell people that LE told her to say nothing to anyone regarding the case, yet, when emailed and asked if this was true the reply was that no, they had not asked her to not discuss the case?

IMO.
M.


I would really like the answers to those questions too.. and why move out of the area??

I know that Christine does believe that Nicholas left on his own. That could be the reason for alot of what she does. Or.. at least that is what she portrays to people that she believes.

[MystryPhobia]

I'm so glad to see you, my friend. Absolutely, so glad!

Hugs,
M.

Thanks M! Missed all of you! Hugs!

[MystryPhobia]

Hey MP - good to see you. IIRC, In a recent post made by Elf, he/she/they stated that Christine had been alone all night the night NF went missing. Wasn't her sister living with her at the time?

Hi Miss Rainy. I have never heard that her sister lived with them at the time.. except on here. But.. I could have completely missed.

I don't know who Elf is but I know that Christine was talking to her best friend on the phone that night.. that they hung up and when Nicholas didn't return home and she became worried.. they talked again. The friend agreed to drive down to Seattle to check on Nicholas and see if she could find him or his car still down there, since the children were in bed by then. She didn't find it.. that is when Christine initially called 911. She was told to give him a little more time and to call back. She called back and told them that he still wasn't home and that she was very worried. The call was ended and then someone called her back and that is when the missing person report was taken. I have no idea if the friend went to the home that night or not. My assumption would be that she did. If my bf's spouse came up missing and they were stressing out.. I can't imagine leaving them to deal with that all night by themselves but that is just what I would do. I don't know for sure if they did that or not.

[RainyNiteNTx]

Hey MP - thanks for the clarification. I too would go be with my friend if any of their family was missing. Nothing sinister about that. I'm not sure where it came up that Christine's sister was staying with her. Maybe that was just the impression because she was the one organizing the money and food. IDK.

[RainyNiteNTx]

I would really like the answers to those questions too.. and why move out of the area??

I know that Christine does believe that Nicholas left on his own. That could be the reason for alot of what she does. Or.. at least that is what she portrays to people that she believes.

Maybe her new husband got transferred?

Even if Christine believe NF left on his own, why wouldn't she want him found, if for nothing else than to help support the children?

[AlicePalace]

I would really like the answers to those questions too.. and why move out of the area??


I think she might have seen a lot of burned bridges in her rear view mirror as she left Washington.

[AlicePalace]

Maybe her new husband got transferred?

Even if Christine believe NF left on his own, why wouldn't she want him found, if for nothing else than to help support the children?

Given her melodramatic statements about how Nicholas would NEVER leave and everything was PERFECT, turning to Nicholas being a FREAK and ABUSIVE, I get the sense that CFC sees things in a pretty black/white manner.

Nicholas coming back or turning up would inevitably stir up a lot of unpleasant emotions, and maybe she's the sort of person who thinks that now that she's married to someone else, everything is completely different and there's no room to incorporate the past. Her new husband seems to have his own skeletons, so maybe she thinks it's better to just plug her ears and sing a happy song?

From his court records, we can see that CFC's new husband had a pretty contentious divorce involving children. You can see from this record that he's got some sort of charge for contempt of court for not paying a previous judgment:

http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.casesummary&crt_itl_nu=S34&casenumber=09-9-30250-5&searchtype=sName&token=2198BAAC5FA4DEB8A8E05719DCFADDCF&dt=09AFA6EDACDE9F9BAB059CAFC90DC1D2

Maybe that had something to do with why they split town?

[Starkist]

My opinions have really never changed. I said I didn't think that she had anything to do with him disappearing. I have also said that I have NO idea whether he is alive or not. Just because I went looking for reasons or excuses for him to have disappeared on his own.. doesn't mean that is what I believe happened or not. I, just like everyone else here, have no idea why he has disappeared. I think there was enough extra curricular activity found that could lead to reasons why he may have wanted out of his life and could have walked away. How 19 months have gone by without him showing up again, I can't imagine tho.

My point was only that Christine has said both things so we can't count on everything she says and make a broad statement that something she said proves one way or the other. She has stated both way.

She wasn't talking to her friend at 7 because her husband had gone missing. She was chatting with her friend and it had nothing to do with Nicholas. So.. to say she called minutes after her husband went missing is not being fair.

The friend drove down to Queen Anne to see if she could find Nicholas or his car. Are you implying that the friend was in on the murder that you say took place that night? Otherwise why would she lie about talking to Christine and going downtown to look for Nicholas.. especially when the calls could be easily checked.

WOW there you go reading into things that aren't there again...:blink:

[Musterion]

Given her melodramatic statements about how Nicholas would NEVER leave and everything was PERFECT, turning to Nicholas being a FREAK and ABUSIVE, I get the sense that CFC sees things in a pretty black/white manner.

Nicholas coming back or turning up would inevitably stir up a lot of unpleasant emotions, and maybe she's the sort of person who thinks that now that she's married to someone else, everything is completely different and there's no room to incorporate the past. Her new husband seems to have his own skeletons, so maybe she thinks it's better to just plug her ears and sing a happy song?

From his court records, we can see that CFC's new husband had a pretty contentious divorce involving children. You can see from this record that he's got some sort of charge for contempt of court for not paying a previous judgment:

http://dw.courts.wa.gov/index.cfm?fa=home.casesummary&crt_itl_nu=S34&casenumber=09-9-30250-5&searchtype=sName&token=2198BAAC5FA4DEB8A8E05719DCFADDCF&dt=09AFA6EDACDE9F9BAB059CAFC90DC1D2

Maybe that had something to do with why they split town?

Hi Alice,

How do we know that that is the Brent Jonathan Carter that married Christine?

IMO.
M.

[Musterion]

I would really like the answers to those questions too.. and why move out of the area??

I know that Christine does believe that Nicholas left on his own. That could be the reason for alot of what she does. Or.. at least that is what she portrays to people that she believes.

Hi M,

This is the thing, you say that Christine does believe Nicholas left on his own. Yet, just as recent as the last interview she did, IIRC, she talked about his horrific secret life and said that she didn't believe he would leave on his own. And that he was a great father.

I don't get all of the double talk.

IMO.
M.

[invreporter1105]

If you didn't know better, you would think she did not want Nicholas found. But why would that be??:confused:

Hi Rainy. I have often pondered this question. I don't understand how in the beginning C seemed (however fake it may have been) so desperate to find Nicholas, and as time went on she became so indifferent. I don't know if anyone has determined when CF and BC met, but maybe Brent was the reason CF got over Nicholas so quickly after his disappearance.:confused:

[AlicePalace]

Hi Alice,

How do we know that that is the Brent Jonathan Carter that married Christine?

IMO.
M.

They appear to share the same first five digits of a social security number, name, and county of residence. I'm sure there's room for leeway, but it seems unlikely, especially when Brent Carter's middle name is actually spelled "Jonothan," as opposed to the more common "Jonathan."

[Starkist]

They appear to share the same first five digits of a social security number, name, and county of residence. I'm sure there's room for leeway, but it seems unlikely, especially when Brent Carter's middle name is actually spelled "Jonothan," as opposed to the more common "Jonathan."

How did you get their SS#s?