8/25

[puppies]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090825/ap_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_investigation

Murray told investigators he didn't order or buy any propofol, but investigators served a search warrant Aug. 11 at a Las Vegas pharmacy and uncovered evidence showing Murray legally purchased from the store the propofol he gave Jackson on the day he died.




The line between safe and dangerous doses of propofol is thin, and according to the drug's guidelines a trained professional must always stay bedside. Home use of propofol is virtually unheard of — safe administration requires both a specially trained anesthesiologist and an array of lifesaving equipment. Murray was trained as a heart doctor, not a pain and sedation specialist.



I am sick and tired of these docs who just play around with these meds like with candy.

[Firehead11]

Which application for the search warrant are you reading? Murray called Williams on his cell phone. At one point Murray runs out to the hall, downstairs to the kitchen and requests that
Prince be sent up. Williams was NOT in the room. Page 19/32

[Firehead11]

And GB how do you think they will feel when they learn that MJ begged for that same drug? Do you think they just might be angry at him?

I think they will be angry at him for various reasons. One reason is that he left them. That is a given.

But let's talk reality here, you have the nurse claiming that he begged her to get a name of a doctor, a drug etc..... (Is she believable?) You have Murray stating one time that Jackson refused to give him any of the past history and then a few pages later we read that he knew about the drug being given to him in the past. (Is he believable?) We have so many "stories" coming out right now and that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Children are not stupid. Not at the age of Prince and Paris. They hear things within their own home, they see things with their own eyes. Time will tell if they accept the fact that their father "begged" for this drug.

I would like to know if during this 4 hour physical if that doctor ever ordered blood work to see if their were drugs in Jackson system and if so, which ones. I would also like to know if Jacksons hair was tested during the autopsy.

Maybe after all is said and done, maybe MJ will be able to rest in peace.

[ellegna]

The question here is: was Michael Jackson worth more dead than alive? Why kill the golden goose? Think about the amount of promotional material and merchandise they could have sold had MJ lived to go on with the tours. Dr. Murray would have had to have been in cahoots with this team. Don't you think the good doctor would have rolled over by now and started naming names? He knows he's going down, it would be logical to not want to be the only one to take the blame.

It's very possible AEG realized 50 concerts would put them way over their heads financially?
IIRC. Ticket sales were 85 Mill. MJ dies. How many of those ticket holders do you think asked for a refund?
Then there is the insurance policy.
AEG sells the rehearsal videos to Sony for 60 Mill. Hmmmmm?

Do I believe the good Dr is in cahoots? At this point and time, anything is possible.
I wouldn't be surprised if the good Dr is being paid to remain silent and take the fall. I wonder if there is an off shore account out there with his name on it?

[Kathlb]

Did you all know that AEG was the beneficiary of the insurance proceeds paid in the drug overdose death of Jimmy Hendrix?

Wow, no, I didn't know that. I think there needs to be an investigation into AEG pronto. :scared:

[Not Telling]

The drug doesn't require it be administered by an anesthesiologist only in a hospital setting. It's safe when given in correct dosages.


Diprivan Official FDA information, side effects and uses.

Warnings

For general anesthesia or monitored anesthesia care (MAC) sedation, Diprivan Injectable Emulsion should be administered only by persons trained in the administration of general anesthesia and not involved in the conduct of the surgical/diagnostic procedure. Patients should be continuously monitored, and facilities for maintenance of a patent airway, artificial ventilation, and oxygen enrichment and circulatory resuscitation must be immediately available.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/diprivan.html

[Firehead11]

So...if LE had all this information over a month ago can anyone explain why Murray hasn't been arrested? What else could they possibily need to convict?

Because they were connecting the dots, collecting evidence. Finding all the medical records, from all the doctors, pharmacies. Have you not been paying attention to all of the searches and the different states? Hell the LE and DEA have accomplished more in Jackson's homicide in less than two months,than they did in another well known drug death in 2 years.

Just this month they found where Murray (or his office)did indeed purchase the drug using a credit card. They needed to get his crdiet card info before they could actually look for recipts that were using the credit card numbers.

[puppies]

Diprivan Official FDA information, side effects and uses.

Warnings

For general anesthesia or monitored anesthesia care (MAC) sedation, Diprivan Injectable Emulsion should be administered only by persons trained in the administration of general anesthesia and not involved in the conduct of the surgical/diagnostic procedure. Patients should be continuously monitored, and facilities for maintenance of a patent airway, artificial ventilation, and oxygen enrichment and circulatory resuscitation must be immediately available.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/diprivan.html

Thank you.
here's even more:

"Using this drug for insomnia is sort of like using a shotgun to kill an ant," Dr. Howard Nearman, department chairman of anesthesia at University Hospitals Case Medical Center in Ohio, told FOXNews.com. "How someone could get a hold of this medication — and use it for the purpose that he allegedly used it for — is just incredible."


"It should not be used out of an ICU or an operating room setting," Nearman said. "Here at University Hospitals Case Medical Center … Diprivan can only be used by anesthesiologists or intensivists ... and these people, who by virtues of training and experience, can handle this drug and manage any adverse side effect should they arise."

It doesn't take a large dose of Propofol to cause respiratory depression, which basically means a person will stop breathing, Nearman said, calling it a "slippery slope."

"Once the breathing is slowed down or the blood pressure drops, eventually the heart won't be able to sustain itself," he said.

Nearman said it's imperative that Propofol be used only in a controlled setting where doctors can monitor the heart rate, blood pressure and breathing, and where if anything goes wrong, there is equipment in place to resuscitate a patient.



http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,542223,00.html?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a4:g4:r3:c0. 000000:b0:z5

[puppies]

My question for the good doc would be why did he wait for more than an hour to call 911 if it was obvious he alone can't handle it?

[Not Telling]

I won't deny that he abused drugs, but really I've never known a drug addict to want a drug and then sleep thru the high!

The enphasis on him being a drug addict and wanting drugs, then just to sleep is a bit bizarre, Any drug addict would tell you that. imo


What about all of the people addicted to sleep meds, you think they're addicted because they want to get high or because they can't sleep without them? In many cases, when a user becomes habituated to a drug, he no longer gets a buzz, he simply needs the chemical to feel normal....


Drug and Alcohol Information
Addictive Drugs - Legal Drugs

Drugs (such as sedatives and tranquilizers) are available by prescription and are considered safe for medical purposes, but they are highly addictive, even at prescribed dosages.

Tranquilizers
Tranquilizers are drugs used to treat anxiety or problems with sleep. They have a calming effect by depressing the nervous system in a way similar to alcohol. The most common forms of minor tranquilizers prescribed are the benzodiazepines. These include Xanax, Ativan, Valium, and Librium. Major tranquilizers such as Haldol, Navane, Thorazine, Mellaril are called "anti-psychotics". They are generally used to treat symptoms of paranoia, psychosis, hallucinations or delusions. Tranquilizers are frequently abused because of their ability to reduce anxiety. Tolerance for these types of drug develops rapidly,as more and more of the drug is needed to be effective.

Sedatives
Like alcohol and tranquilizers, sedatives depress the nervous system. They have a calming effect and help induce sleep. Of the four groups of sedatives, barbiturates are the most commonly abused and the most addictive. Commonly abused barbiturates are Nembutal, Seconal, and Amytal. The other three groups of sedatives are benzodiazepines, barbiturate-like sedatives, and other sedatives. Benzodiazepines, which are prescribed as sleep medications, include Restoril, Dalmane, and Halcion. Barbiturate-like sedatives include Placidyl, Miltown, Doriden, Noludar, and Quaaludes. Other sedatives prescribed as sleep medications include Ambien and Sonata. Desyrel, an older antidepressant, is also prescribed as a sleep medication.

http://www.egetgoing.com/drug_addiction/legal_drugs.asp

[RootBeer]

I think Michael wanted to die. jmo

[Firehead11]

From TMZ
Michael Jackson -- Very Cash Poor

Posted Aug 25th 2009 2:00AM by TMZ Staff

TMZ has reviewed financial documents that show MIchael Jackson's cash flow was in the red zone. Jackson's liquid cash totaled .05% of his net worth.

According to the documents obtained by TMZ, Jackson's net worth was estimated at $1,360,839,979 on July 31, 2007. It's a fortune, to be sure ... but of that $1,150,000,000 is the Sony-ATV Publishing Trust (Beatles Catalog).

As for cold, hard "Cash in Bank" -- $668,215. Jackson could blow through that amount in a trip or two to the antique store.

The other assets:

-- Real property $73,475,000 (Neverland valued at $66,875,000, Encino Home valued at $6,600,000)
-- Restricted cash $10,696,764 (this is a cash reserve to pay interest on loans)
-- Media Archival materials $20,000,000
-- MJ Publishing Trust $85,000,000
-- Professional equipment $1,000,000
-- Automobiles, antiques, collectibles & other personal property $20,000,000

Combined assets total $1,360,839,979.

As for liabilities, the big ticket item is Neverland -- $323,000,000. The description "Notes payable to Fortress are collateralized by Mr. Jackson's interest in the Sony-ATV Publishing Trust and a partial security interest in the Los Olivos, California (Neverland) property. Additionally, as of March 31, 2007, the bank holds restricted cash in the approximate amount of $7,803,621. With other liabilities, the sum comes to $331,000,000."

Jackson's bottom line net worth was listed at $1,360,839,979. But the cash flow is pretty stunning.

Paper rich but cash poor has been a saying for a long time and I am sure that Jackson is/was not the only rich person to be such. But things must have changed in recent times. How did Tohme have over 5 Million in cash?

[Not Telling]

Since I can't reply on the Homicide thread where it was posted, I'll respond here...

In regards to "Did you all know that AEG was the beneficiary of the insurance proceeds paid in the drug overdose death of Jimmy Hendrix?"


AEG won't be making any money from the insurance proceeds... Concert promoters have insurance policies to protect their investments... They can't insure against any potential profits... jmo

[Scampi]

I cannot believe how badly Murray attended Michael Jackson. To give him all those strong medications, one right after the other, topping them off with the very dangerous diprivan is criminal in my estimation.

His lies about being on the phone is proof of his culpability, imo.

I look for charges and an arrest very soon.


:angry:

[flipflop]

Who's to Blame in Jackson's Death?

Posted Aug 25th 2009 9:27AM by TMZ Staff

Michael JacksonWe've been telling you for weeks Propofol killed Michael Jackson and authorities had their sights set on Dr. Conrad Murray. The affidavit to the Houston search warrant makes it clear -- Dr. Murray fueled Jackson with multiple drugs before he stopped breathing and Propofol was the crowning blow.

So the questions -- did Dr. Murray come clean when he spoke with the LAPD or is it even worse than we thought? Why was he on the phone for 47 minutes after Jackson stopped breathing? Why did he wait so long to call 911? Why did he refuse to pronounce Jackson dead at UCLA? Why did Dr. Murray disappear for a day?

And the bigger question -- is Dr. Murray the patsy -- taking the heat for years of prescription abuse at the hands of various doctors?

What do you think? (they have a poll)

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-drugs-prescription-polls/

[GentleBreeze]

I think they will be angry at him for various reasons. One reason is that he left them. That is a given.

But let's talk reality here, you have the nurse claiming that he begged her to get a name of a doctor, a drug etc..... (Is she believable?) You have Murray stating one time that Jackson refused to give him any of the past history and then a few pages later we read that he knew about the drug being given to him in the past. (Is he believable?) We have so many "stories" coming out right now and that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Children are not stupid. Not at the age of Prince and Paris. They hear things within their own home, they see things with their own eyes. Time will tell if they accept the fact that their father "begged" for this drug.

I would like to know if during this 4 hour physical if that doctor ever ordered blood work to see if their were drugs in Jackson system and if so, which ones. I would also like to know if Jacksons hair was tested during the autopsy.

Maybe after all is said and done, maybe MJ will be able to rest in peace.

I think if they have any anger toward their father it will be because they feel they need him and he is not there like he always was for them but I think that anger will quickly dissipate. I do feel they already feel anger at Dr. Murray for taking their father's life, as they should.

However, over and over it has been said that all these children love to read, so they will not stay ignorant about prescription drug addicts and how it processes into becoming a disease.

I think before this over with they will know all about how their father became a drug addict and how the countless doctors fed his known addiction at every turn.

They will want to understand all the particulars of this addiction and how it happens and why so little are ever cured. Imo they will thirst for knowledge until they find it. And in the end I think they will try to help other addicts and there are millions of them in our country.

I do expect that once they are out on their own they will continue on with humanitarian work and it would not surprise me if this is the charities that they will support.

imo

[puppies]

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1619415/20090825/jackson_michael.jhtml?rsspartner=rssYahooNewscrawl er


Michael Jackson Doctor's Attorney Says Affidavit Is 'Police Theory'Dr. Conrad Murray's lawyer says the timeline of events is speculative.



And the spin starts.:rolleyes:

[Firehead11]

I think Michael wanted to die. jmo

I know I should just let this one go by but I just couldn't.

Oh I doubt that. If what they say is true, about what drugs were found, then MJ could have easily taken an overdose on all the pills instead of having a doctor put him permanently to sleep.

[puppies]

I think if they have any anger toward their father it will be because they feel they need him and he is not there like he always was for them but I think that anger will quickly dissipate. I do feel they already feel anger at Dr. Murray for taking their father's life, as they should.

However, over and over it has been said that all these children love to read, so they will not stay ignorant about prescription drug addicts and how it processes into becoming a disease.

I think before this over with they will know all about how their father became a drug addict and how the countless doctors fed his known addiction at every turn.

They will want to understand all the particulars of this addiction and how it happens and why so little are ever cured. Imo they will thirst for knowledge until they find it. And in the end I think they will try to help other addicts and there are millions of them in our country.

I do expect that once they are out on their own they will continue on with humanitarian work and it would not surprise me if this is the charities that they will support.

imo

It's actually so easy these days to become an addict,look how "helpful" the ones who are supposed to protect life,sanity and health are.Sometimes addicts don't even realize anymore where they stand,isn't that why there needs to be someone sober around,to make the right decisions?
Okay,he was whining that he couldn't sleep,I understand how tough that was,but isn't this the reason a doctor was supervising him?Okay,he wanted the drug......do you have to give it to him?>If he's an addict,of course he wants it but it's up to you whether you give it to him or not.
The doc was the one thinking straight.....should have been...seems he wasn't....

[Firehead11]

I think if they have any anger toward their father it will be because they feel they need him and he is not there like he always was for them but I think that anger will quickly dissipate. I do feel they already feel anger at Dr. Murray for taking their father's life, as they should.

However, over and over it has been said that all these children love to read, so they will not stay ignorant about prescription drug addicts and how it processes into becoming a disease.

I think before this over with they will know all about how their father became a drug addict and how the countless doctors fed his known addiction at every turn.

They will want to understand all the particulars of this addiction and how it happens and why so little are ever cured. Imo they will thirst for knowledge until they find it. And in the end I think they will try to help other addicts and there are millions of them in our country.

I do expect that once they are out on their own they will continue on with humanitarian work and it would not surprise me if this is the charities that they will support.

imo

GB

I think the children know a lot more of what is going on now than people give them credit for. To get angry at the one that leaves you is part of the process of grieving. Reaching that point might take some time.

I keep coming back to wanting to know IF his system was clean when he had his physical. I am hoping that some answers will come out in the coming months or years.

[Carol25]

Do you know this has been ruled a homicide and there was and overdose of propofyl (sp?)) in the body? It is on drudge today.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090824/ap_en_ot/us_michael_jackson_investigation



After reading this article, it appears it was a combination of drugs.

[GentleBreeze]

I think Michael wanted to die. jmo

I think MJ wanted very much to live and thought he would do exactly that. He wanted to sleep and let his brain rest but he did not mean he wanted it to happen forever.

Murray is the one that made that happen with the drug cocktail he gave him and finishing it off with a deadly overdose of Propovol.

imo

[mrsmcgoo]

I think they are not arresting Dr. Murray because they are sorting out his timeline and lies to determine what level of manslaughter they are going to charge him with.


I am sickened that MJ's son was called upstairs by Dr. Murray. Can't imagine why he would ever do that other than to secure a witness, it certainly wouldn't be to help with CPR.

Also, have to remember, MJ was an addict. Dr. Murray or any of the Dr.'s wouldn't have ever been in MJ's life if MJ had not of been shopping for the medication.

JMO

[puppies]

Do you know this has been ruled a homicide and there was and overdose of propofyl (sp?)) in the body? It is on drudge today.


Dunno if 25mg can be lethal or not for someone in his condition or maybe mr.doc forgot to mention how many times he gave him 25mg that night/morning?

[puppies]

I think MJ wanted very much to live and thought he would do exactly that. He wanted to sleep and let his brain rest but he did not mean he wanted it to happen forever.

Murray is the one that made that happen with the drug cocktail he gave him and finishing it off with a deadly overdose of Propovol.

imo

I agree...

[Firehead11]

We know that the LE founds bottles of propofol in the closet. I wonder how many mlg's were in each of those bottles. IIRC, didn't Murray state that those bottles were 1 nights worth? :scared:

[GentleBreeze]

It's actually so easy these days to become an addict,look how "helpful" the ones who are supposed to protect life,sanity and health are.Sometimes addicts don't even realize anymore where they stand,isn't that why there needs to be someone sober around,to make the right decisions?
Okay,he was whining that he couldn't sleep,I understand how tough that was,but isn't this the reason a doctor was supervising him?Okay,he wanted the drug......do you have to give it to him?>If he's an addict,of course he wants it but it's up to you whether you give it to him or not.
The doc was the one thinking straight.....should have been...seems he wasn't....

Exactly. The addict will make irrational demands but that never means that an ethical doctor with supposedly a sound mind will simply wimp out and give into those demands.

They are to "do no harm" and Murray had to know he was playing Russian Roulette with his patient's life.

Of course MJ wanted it. He was addicted to it and it seems Murray was already aware of that but he loads him up on drug after drug and then overdoses him on Propovol. Reprehensible behavior.

And I don't believe Murray one nano second. If he was cutting back on the Propovol they wouldn't have declared that MJ died from a LETHAL OVERDOSE of Propovol. His story just does not add up because from the very start we heard that Propovol quickly leaves the body once it has been administered. So IMO he was given a lethal amount the morning he died.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

We know that the LE founds bottles of propofol in the closet. I wonder how many mlg's were in each of those bottles. IIRC, didn't Murray state that those bottles were 1 nights worth? :scared:

I cant remember if Murray said it but there have been anesthesiologists on the news shows that knew the amount and sizes found and said it would be enough for about 8 hours.

imo

[puppies]

Exactly. The addict will make irrational demands but that never means that an ethical doctor with supposedly a sound mind will simply wimp out and give into those demands.

They are to "do no harm" and Murray had to know he was playing Russian Roulette with his patient's life.

Of course MJ wanted it. He was addicted to it and it seems Murray was already aware of that but he loads him up on drug after drug and then overdoses him on Propovol. Reprehensible behavior.

And I don't believe Murray one nano second. If he was cutting back on the Propovol they wouldn't have declared that MJ died from a LETHAL OVERDOSE of Propovol. His story just does not add up because from the very start we heard that Propovol quickly leaves the body once it has been administered. So IMO he was given a lethal amount the morning he died.

imo

Sounds silly but good that we're not dealing with pills here....M. would have said MJ just swallowed them all while he went to the bathroom.:rolleyes:

[mrsmcgoo]

Here is a link that talks about dosage of Diprivan

http://www.rxlist.com/diprivan-drug.htm#

[retiredcop]

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2009-08-24-jackson-death_N.htm

snipped

USA TODAY could not confirm with the coroner or the Los Angeles Police Department that a ruling of homicide has been made; the AP's law enforcement source spoke on condition of anonymity because the findings have not been publicly released.
-------------------------------------

Anyone know if this has been confirmed yet???


in my opinion

[mrsmcgoo]

Sounds silly but good that we're not dealing with pills here....M. would have said MJ just swallowed them all while he went to the bathroom.:rolleyes:


Do you have a link that states that there were no pills involved?

[Firehead11]

well to most of us, that search warrant speaks volumes.

But if you want to goggle for a link to confirmation, go ahead.

[mrsmcgoo]

well to most of us, that search warrant speaks volumes.

But if you want to goggle for a link to confirmation, go ahead.

Is this post in response to my request for a link regarding the pills????:confused:

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2009-08-24-jackson-death_N.htm

snipped

USA TODAY could not confirm with the coroner or the Los Angeles Police Department that a ruling of homicide has been made; the AP's law enforcement source spoke on condition of anonymity because the findings have not been publicly released.
-------------------------------------

Anyone know if this has been confirmed yet???


in my opinion

I don't expect them to confirm but they sure haven't denied it either.

I trust AP reporters more than any other news agency.

The entire country is reporting on it now.

I see it in my news ticker all the time and it was on the front page of my local newspaper this morning.

imo

[Firehead11]

Is this post in response to my request for a link regarding the pills????:confused:

No, not at all.

Sorry if you took it that way.

About the pills, I think it was reported that there were two semi disolved pills found in his stomach. Now whether that is true or not I do not know.

[puppies]

thanks for the link,mrsmcgoo

DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion is available as follows:

20 mL ready-to use single patient infusion vial.
50 mL ready-to use single patient infusion vial.
100 mL ready-to use single patient infusion vial.



He said 25mg,right?
So how did he do it,he took 20 from one bottle and opened another one for another 5?:huh: (yeah right)

I think he gave him more than 25.......

[mrsmcgoo]

I don't expect them to confirm but they sure haven't denied it either.

I trust AP reporters more than any other news agency.

The entire country is reporting on it now.

I see it in my news ticker all the time and it was on the front page of my local newspaper this morning.

imo

I agree on that GB.

Associated Press has proven itself to be very reliable in it's reporting for many many years.

JMO

[retiredcop]

I don't expect them to confirm but they sure haven't denied it either.

I trust AP reporters more than any other news agency.

The entire country is reporting on it now.

I see it in my news ticker all the time and it was on the front page of my local newspaper this morning.

imo

I've seen AP make mistakes before with their anonymous sources and have to apologize. Just saying. I trust them the least. All the news agencies are going off the AP report. If this is not true they are the only ones that will have to answer for it.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

I agree on that GB.

Associated Press has proven itself to be very reliable in it's reporting for many many years.

JMO

I have given stories much more weight if the AP reporters are the ones coming out with it.

I knew when I first heard Neil Cabuto yesterday saying that the AP was reporting that Jackson's death had been ruled a homicide it wouldn't be long until the news traveled like wildfire.

imo

[Firehead11]

I have given stories much more weight if the AP reporters are the ones coming out with it.

I knew when I first heard Neil Cabuto yesterday saying that the AP was reporting that Jackson's death had been ruled a homicide it wouldn't be long until the news traveled like wildfire.

imo

Some have given bloggers stories more credit than the AP. :confused:

[GentleBreeze]

I've seen AP make mistakes before with their anonymous sources and have to apologize. Just saying. I trust them the least. All the news agencies are going off the AP report. If this is not true they are the only ones that will have to answer for it.

in my opinion

I think it is true and even media outlet makes mistakes but out of the rest the AP is the best of the best,imo.

Yes, all media outlets certainly find AP the most credible that is why they use their news so much.

I don't think they will have to be eating crow.:smile: I think they are right on point and not wrong. It makes even more sense now since we have seen the foolish story that Murray tried to feed LE.

imo

[retiredcop]

I have given stories much more weight if the AP reporters are the ones coming out with it.

I knew when I first heard Neil Cabuto yesterday saying that the AP was reporting that Jackson's death had been ruled a homicide it wouldn't be long until the news traveled like wildfire.

imo

Did you give much weight to them reporting from an anonymous source about the DNA of the Lauderbach baby?

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Some have given bloggers stories more credit than the AP. :confused:

:cool::lol:

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Did you give much weight to them reporting from an anonymous source about the DNA of the Lauderbach baby?

in my opinion

I didn't see that. Were they saying that Gabriel was Laurean's? I may not have paid attention to it because I always felt he wasn't CL's child.

Back on topic:
I think they are dead on with this one.

imo

[Eagleeye]

Diprivan Official FDA information, side effects and uses.

Warnings

For general anesthesia or monitored anesthesia care (MAC) sedation, Diprivan Injectable Emulsion should be administered only by persons trained in the administration of general anesthesia and not involved in the conduct of the surgical/diagnostic procedure. Patients should be continuously monitored, and facilities for maintenance of a patent airway, artificial ventilation, and oxygen enrichment and circulatory resuscitation must be immediately available.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/diprivan.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Telling
How was MJ dehydrated when he had been receiving IV fluids for approximately 11 hours before he died? Someone suffering from dehydration can be rehydrated in as little as several hours with IV fluids...

Brought over from Wrongful death thread.

[/quote] Just because there was an IV bag on that pole doesn't mean that he was hydrated for 11 hours. That is a supposition by yourself. Dr. Murray supposedly didn't give him an IV suspension of propofol until around 10:00 am the day he died after he had ingested numerous drugs through the morning which didn't make him sleep. I think he was too wired from the rehearsal. Any of those drugs could have given MJ Bradycardia (slowness of the heart). Symptoms such as fatigue, weakness, dizziness, lightheadedness and shortness of breath were likely present and with the infusion of Propofol which slows the heartrate even further, was more that MJ's heart could handle.

Secondly, Dr. Murray reported that MJ had a faint pulse and commenced CPR. YOU DON'T DO CPR ON A BARELY BEATING HEART. You take the chance of stopping it altogether. Dr. Murray should have recognized the symptoms of dehydration and as I have said here a few times before, given him and immediate push of IV fluids and mechanical ventilation or intubation. Dehydration lowers the blood volume and without that volume CPR (pumping his chest) would do nothing but create a larger problem. If you recall the EMT's wanted to call him dead at the scene. Dr. Murray insisted he be transported to the ER.

This is the last time I am going to reapeat this. MJ was dead when he got to the ER and they only worked on him for the benefit of the family waiting outside of the ER. It is done all the time to show that they did all the could to try and save him. Michael Jackson died at the hands of an incompetent Cardioligist and for that Dr. Murray will pay a huge price IMO.[\quote]

Not telling, you just proved my point. Circulatory resusitation must be immediately available. ie IV fluids to rehydrate. I have not read that there were multiple empty bags of IV fluids found in the bedroom.

[retiredcop]

All I want to know is the coroner's report on how this is ruled. The autopsy is the source for me.

Why should the coroner's office, the LAPD, or the DA's office even confirm or deny this? It has already been said many times the results of the autopsy is not being released. The coroner's office or the LAPD would have to have a leak for that anonymous source.

I am doing my research to see if there is confirmation. All I want to know is if this case has been ruled a homicide or not.

I also think it odd that Geraldo said on his show Sunday night the Jacksons had informed him there would be a bombshell released on Monday. They did not tell him anything else about the bombshell.

Monday, an anonymous source came forward along with the release of the S/W. No where in the search warrant does anything say how the coroner ruled this case. Maybe the Jacksons had something to do with anonymous source? It sure brings the case back on the news and the Jacksons the publicity they crave. Could this be a push to have the coroner go ahead and release the autopsy report?

This is still only from one anonymous source.

in my opinion

[Eagleeye]

All I want to know is the coroner's report on how this is ruled. The autopsy is the source for me.

Why should the coroner's office, the LAPD, or the DA's office even confirm or deny this? It has already been said many times the results of the autopsy is not being released. The coroner's office or the LAPD would have to have a leak for that anonymous source.

I am doing my research to see if there is confirmation. All I want to know is if this case has been ruled a homicide or not.

I also think it odd that Geraldo said on his show Sunday night the Jacksons had informed him there would be a bombshell released on Monday. They did not tell him anything else about the bombshell.

Monday, an anonymous source came forward along with the release of the S/W. No where in the search warrant does anything say how the coroner ruled this case. Maybe the Jacksons had something to do with anonymous source? It sure brings the case back on the news and the Jacksons the publicity they crave. Could this be a push to have the coroner go ahead and release the autopsy report?

This is still only from one anonymous source.

in my opinion

My bold:

Me too cop cause I have a load of crow to eat if I am wrong. :laugh:

[GentleBreeze]

All I want to know is the coroner's report on how this is ruled. The autopsy is the source for me.

Why should the coroner's office, the LAPD, or the DA's office even confirm or deny this? It has already been said many times the results of the autopsy is not being released. The coroner's office or the LAPD would have to have a leak for that anonymous source.

I am doing my research to see if there is confirmation. All I want to know is if this case has been ruled a homicide or not.

I also think it odd that Geraldo said on his show Sunday night the Jacksons had informed him there would be a bombshell released on Monday. They did not tell him anything else about the bombshell.

Monday, an anonymous source came forward along with the release of the S/W. No where in the search warrant does anything say how the coroner ruled this case. Maybe the Jacksons had something to do with anonymous source? It sure brings the case back on the news and the Jacksons the publicity they crave. Could this be a push to have the coroner go ahead and release the autopsy report?

This is still only from one anonymous source.

in my opinion

I highly doubt that it had to do with any Jackson.

The AP is saying their source is an official within law enforcement.

imo

[Rayosunshine]

Diprivan Official FDA information, side effects and uses.

Warnings

For general anesthesia or monitored anesthesia care (MAC) sedation, Diprivan Injectable Emulsion should be administered only by persons trained in the administration of general anesthesia and not involved in the conduct of the surgical/diagnostic procedure. Patients should be continuously monitored, and facilities for maintenance of a patent airway, artificial ventilation, and oxygen enrichment and circulatory resuscitation must be immediately available.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/diprivan.html

And, Dr. Murray is a Cardiologist - NOT qualified to administer general anesthesia. He needs to have a tattoo on his forehead, so he can see it whenever he looks in a mirror, or so that it can be read by those he treats, it should read, "!tsigoloisehtsenA na ton am I". FYI a nurse working alone in recovery room overnight DOES NOT have bathroom priviledges, unless someone is so kind (and that is very, very rare) to relieve her - that is, someone who is competent in that area of care.

[retiredcop]

From EagleEye's post snipped:


Secondly, Dr. Murray reported that MJ had a faint pulse and commenced CPR. YOU DON'T DO CPR ON A BARELY BEATING HEART. You take the chance of stopping it altogether.

____________________________________

CPR is called CPR whether you are doing only chest compressions or rescue breaths or both. It's all CPR. Suppose you tell me what only rescue breaths are suppose to be called. Is it RB? What is only chest compressions suppose to be called. Is it CP?

in my opinion

[mrsmcgoo]

All I want to know is the coroner's report on how this is ruled. The autopsy is the source for me.

Why should the coroner's office, the LAPD, or the DA's office even confirm or deny this? It has already been said many times the results of the autopsy is not being released. The coroner's office or the LAPD would have to have a leak for that anonymous source.

I am doing my research to see if there is confirmation. All I want to know is if this case has been ruled a homicide or not.

I also think it odd that Geraldo said on his show Sunday night the Jacksons had informed him there would be a bombshell released on Monday. They did not tell him anything else about the bombshell.

Monday, an anonymous source came forward along with the release of the S/W. No where in the search warrant does anything say how the coroner ruled this case. Maybe the Jacksons had something to do with anonymous source? It sure brings the case back on the news and the Jacksons the publicity they crave. Could this be a push to have the coroner go ahead and release the autopsy report?

This is still only from one anonymous source.

in my opinion

I hear what you are saying for sure. You make great points about the Jacksons.

I wish we had actual documents that we could verify the information with. I do have to say though that ,personally, I feel the Associated Press has a proven track record for accurate information.

(I know, you stated the Lauren case, but do we actually know that the A/P was the first to break this news? Although I followed the case, I really don't remember who was the first to state the baby parentage.)

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

AP Article

The homicide ruling was based on forensic tests that found the anesthetic propofol combined with at least two sedatives to kill Jackson, a law enforcement official told The Associated Press on Monday, speaking on condition of anonymity because the findings have not been publicly released.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090825/ap_on_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_investigation

[Rayosunshine]

All I want to know is the coroner's report on how this is ruled. The autopsy is the source for me.

Why should the coroner's office, the LAPD, or the DA's office even confirm or deny this? It has already been said many times the results of the autopsy is not being released. The coroner's office or the LAPD would have to have a leak for that anonymous source.

I am doing my research to see if there is confirmation. All I want to know is if this case has been ruled a homicide or not.

I also think it odd that Geraldo said on his show Sunday night the Jacksons had informed him there would be a bombshell released on Monday. They did not tell him anything else about the bombshell.

Monday, an anonymous source came forward along with the release of the S/W. No where in the search warrant does anything say how the coroner ruled this case. Maybe the Jacksons had something to do with anonymous source? It sure brings the case back on the news and the Jacksons the publicity they crave. Could this be a push to have the coroner go ahead and release the autopsy report?

This is still only from one anonymous source.

in my opinion

I had the same thoughts that the media was pushing for info, so by making up a story they would force the coroner to release accurate information.

Also, could it be that the individuals who where snooping into records and on MJ's body in the morgue are the ones who leaked the info? Wasn't there something in the past about snoops in the office?

[retiredcop]

My bold:

Me too cop cause I have a load of crow to eat if I am wrong. :laugh:

LOL I'll eat it with ya. I don't mind eating crow. I must say even if it is ruled a homicide it does not mean any charges will be filed or a conviction will be obtained. The ruling does not mean this is over by a long shot.

in my opinion

[Eagleeye]

From EagleEye's post snipped:


Secondly, Dr. Murray reported that MJ had a faint pulse and commenced CPR. YOU DON'T DO CPR ON A BARELY BEATING HEART. You take the chance of stopping it altogether.

____________________________________

CPR is called CPR whether you are doing only chest compressions or rescue breaths or both. It's all CPR. Suppose you tell me what only rescue breaths are suppose to be called. Is it RB? What is only chest compressions suppose to be called. Is it CP?

in my opinion

Well, excuse me!! Let me clarify for you, I guess I should have said you don't do chest compressions on a barely beating heart. Does that make you feel better?

[retiredcop]

I had the same thoughts that the media was pushing for info, so by making up a story they would force the coroner to release accurate information.

Also, could it be that the individuals who where snooping into records and on MJ's body in the morgue are the ones who leaked the info? Wasn't there something in the past about snoops in the office?

I don't remember that, but I would think the coroner's office is buttoned down tight on this case. I would also think LAPD is too. No one connected to this case is leaking. As far as the DAs office, they are saying they haven't received the case yet from LAPD to make any determinations.

Heads will roll if a leak is found.

in my opinion

[Rayosunshine]

From EagleEye's post snipped:


Secondly, Dr. Murray reported that MJ had a faint pulse and commenced CPR. YOU DON'T DO CPR ON A BARELY BEATING HEART. You take the chance of stopping it altogether.

____________________________________

CPR is called CPR whether you are doing only chest compressions or rescue breaths or both. It's all CPR. Suppose you tell me what only rescue breaths are suppose to be called. Is it RB? What is only chest compressions suppose to be called. Is it CP?

in my opinion

Hey RC, it IS called "rescue breathing". NO you NEVER compress the chest of a person with a beating heart! But, I will allow for the obvious panic at the time of the events and maybe CPR was a catchword, however, the man on the phone to 911 did say, "pumping his chest", so obviously Dr. Murray, a Cardiologist, didn't know diddly about emergency care - an idiot to say the least. I wonder how much it costs to buy a MD Degree in Grenada?

[retiredcop]

Hey RC, it IS called "rescue breathing". NO you NEVER compress the chest of a person with a beating heart! But, I will allow for the obvious panic at the time of the events and maybe CPR was a catchword, however, the man on the phone to 911 did say, "pumping his chest", so obviously Dr. Murray, a Cardiologist, didn't know diddly about emergency care - an idiot to say the least. I wonder how much it costs to buy a MD Degree in Grenada?


I guess you missed my point about CPR. I just think it silly to jump on that being called CPR and shouldn't have been called that. I had years of training in CPR. Every year for one week x 30 years.

Have you seen his biography about his training? This is beginning to sound a little ethnic here.

in my opinion

[puppies]

Why did he feel the need to say "I LOWERED" the dose?Makes you wonder.....was he already being defensive?
Even if "lowered" doesn't make it better anyway in this case.

[retiredcop]

Well, excuse me!! Let me clarify for you, I guess I should have said you don't do chest compressions on a barely beating heart. Does that make you feel better?

But you do if the heart stops and it appears it did stop. How long did that faint heartbeat last? Not long I would say.

in my opinion

[Rayosunshine]

It's very possible AEG realized 50 concerts would put them way over their heads financially?
IIRC. Ticket sales were 85 Mill. MJ dies. How many of those ticket holders do you think asked for a refund?
Then there is the insurance policy.
AEG sells the rehearsal videos to Sony for 60 Mill. Hmmmmm?

Do I believe the good Dr is in cahoots? At this point and time, anything is possible.
I wouldn't be surprised if the good Dr is being paid to remain silent and take the fall. I wonder if there is an off shore account out there with his name on it?

In this day and age, I wouldn't be at all surprised. Morality is in the garbage in the world we live in.

[Rayosunshine]

Why did he feel the need to say "I LOWERED" the dose?Makes you wonder.....was he already being defensive?
Even if "lowered" doesn't make it better anyway in this case.

Maybe because he knows he did not lower the dose and thought that sounded better, made him look good, more conscientious - yeah right! I am gonna get that cross out of the shed.

[?WudScoobyDo]

I guess you missed my point about CPR. I just think it silly to jump on that being called CPR and shouldn't have been called that. I had years of training in CPR. Every year for two weeks x 30 years.

Have you seen his biography about his training? This is beginning to sound a little ethnic here.

in my opinion

His place of origin has nothing to do with his recklessness, and culpability for the unnecessary death of another human being.

imo..of course.

[?WudScoobyDo]

And, Dr. Murray is a Cardiologist - NOT qualified to administer general anesthesia. He needs to have a tattoo on his forehead, so he can see it whenever he looks in a mirror, or so that it can be read by those he treats, it should read, "!tsigoloisehtsenA na ton am I". FYI a nurse working alone in recovery room overnight DOES NOT have bathroom priviledges, unless someone is so kind (and that is very, very rare) to relieve her - that is, someone who is competent in that area of care.

I believe he wasn't even a certified cardiologist. I can't imagine how freaked out his former living patients must be, knowing they put their lives in the hands of such incompetence.

imo...of course.

[retiredcop]

His place of origin has nothing to do with his recklessness, and culpability for the unnecessary death of another human being.

imo..of course.

Don't tell me that. I didn't say it did, but you know that don't you? I was not the one mentioning Grenada.

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

Conrad Murray A Liar, Dr. Claims

Posted Aug 25th 2009 11:50AM by TMZ Staff

A Las Vegas doctor says Dr. Conrad Murray was lying when he told LAPD detectives he watched the Vegas doc administer Propofol to Michael Jackson earlier this year.

Liborius Agwara, the lawyer repping Dr. David Adams, tells TMZ his client never administered Propofol to Michael Jackson in a cosmetologist's office. According to the search warrant affidavit, Dr. Murray told LAPD detectives he was present when Dr. Adams administered the drug "sometime between March and April of this year."

Agwara would not say if Dr. Adams has ever administered Propofol to Jackson.

TMZ.com

[Rayosunshine]

I guess you missed my point about CPR. I just think it silly to jump on that being called CPR and shouldn't have been called that. I had years of training in CPR. Every year for one week x 30 years.

Have you seen his biography about his training? This is beginning to sound a little ethnic here.

in my opinion

I have not see Dr. M's bio, or as it is called in the US, Curriculum Vitae. I would like to see it, better yet, I would like to see it verified as truthful.

Ethnic? I'm not sure I follow what you mean?

Didn't you hate doing CPR every year - drove me nuts, now we have 4 years, I think. I hear there are changes and you MUST compress on the second of a stopwatch, if you are out of rhythm you fail - that is soooo stupid. (I performed CPR once, in the OR, yes the OR - the anesthetist had to be told that the patient flatlined and she was at a loss for words when it happened - anesthesiologist came in and gave orders - thank God the lady survived, but I felt horrible when when she was in recovery crying that her chest hurt - she was about 280 lbs and I was 110 lbs - Adrenalin is for real!

[?WudScoobyDo]

All I want to know is the coroner's report on how this is ruled. The autopsy is the source for me.

Why should the coroner's office, the LAPD, or the DA's office even confirm or deny this? It has already been said many times the results of the autopsy is not being released. The coroner's office or the LAPD would have to have a leak for that anonymous source.

I am doing my research to see if there is confirmation. All I want to know is if this case has been ruled a homicide or not.

I also think it odd that Geraldo said on his show Sunday night the Jacksons had informed him there would be a bombshell released on Monday. They did not tell him anything else about the bombshell.

Monday, an anonymous source came forward along with the release of the S/W. No where in the search warrant does anything say how the coroner ruled this case. Maybe the Jacksons had something to do with anonymous source? It sure brings the case back on the news and the Jacksons the publicity they crave. Could this be a push to have the coroner go ahead and release the autopsy report?

This is still only from one anonymous source.

in my opinion


The coroner has ruled its a homicide. The preliminary report says that MJ died from a lethal dose of propofol and that Dr. Murray administered it along with massive doses of various other drugs. If you add those facts together, it equates to homicide, and thats what the coroner has determined.

imo...of course.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Conrad Murray A Liar, Dr. Claims

Posted Aug 25th 2009 11:50AM by TMZ Staff

A Las Vegas doctor says Dr. Conrad Murray was lying when he told LAPD detectives he watched the Vegas doc administer Propofol to Michael Jackson earlier this year.

Liborius Agwara, the lawyer repping Dr. David Adams, tells TMZ his client never administered Propofol to Michael Jackson in a cosmetologist's office. According to the search warrant affidavit, Dr. Murray told LAPD detectives he was present when Dr. Adams administered the drug "sometime between March and April of this year."

Agwara would not say if Dr. Adams has ever administered Propofol to Jackson.

TMZ.com

I wish they would stop saying a "cosmetologist's" office. Cosmetology is the study of hair, and haircuts are done in salons, without anesthesia. They must have meant to say dermatologist. But I tend to think that Dr. Murray has been less than truthful too.

[Rayosunshine]

Don't tell me that. I didn't say it did, but you know that don't you? I was not the one mentioning Grenada.

in my opinion


I am the one who mentioned Grenada. So what? My heritage is Cuban!
A mention of a person's origins is NOT an ethnic slur - unless you are so inclined to be bigoted and think that way. I have no intentions to slur someone because of their ethnicity - it is not me, PERIOD! If that is the first thing that came to your mind, then there you have it.

Don't ever interpret what I say and make it something else that it is not. That is strictly prohibited and I will not tolerate it again!

[puppies]

Maybe because he knows he did not lower the dose and thought that sounded better, made him look good, more conscientious - yeah right! I am gonna get that cross out of the shed.

My bet would be that the doc probably even increased the dose.....maybe MJ's body was getting used to 50mg and he needed more in order to "sleep".

[retiredcop]

Affidavit Statement
August 24th, 2009

August 24, 2009

With regard the affidavit released today in Houston Texas, Mr. Chernoff responds:

“Much of what was in the search warrant affidavit is factual. However, unfortunately, much is police theory. Most egregiously, the timeline reported by law enforcement was not obtained through interviews with Dr. Murray, as was implied by the affidavit. Dr. Murray simply never told investigators that he found Michael Jackson at 11:00 am not breathing. He also never said that he waited a mere ten minutes before leaving to make several phone calls. In fact, Dr. Murray never said that he left Michael Jackson’s room to make phone calls at all.

We will not comment on the “anonymous” law enforcement source that claims that Michael Jackson’s death will be ruled a homicide. Most of the reports by “anonymous” sources have been proven wrong. We will be happy to address the Coroner’s report when it is officially released.”


http://houstoncriminallaw-pressroom.com/

[Rayosunshine]

My bet would be that the doc probably even increased the dose.....maybe MJ's body was getting used to 50mg and he needed more in order to "sleep".

My bet would be the doctor doesn't know how much he gave him - he probably can't calculate dosage/kg. He is a liar anyway, imo. Who knows what to believe anymore. Trust me, he will be saying all the "right" things - that class he did not miss. What he doesn't know, is that we've heard it all before and with the end result, none of it makes sense.

[Rayosunshine]

Affidavit Statement
August 24th, 2009

August 24, 2009

With regard the affidavit released today in Houston Texas, Mr. Chernoff responds:

“Much of what was in the search warrant affidavit is factual. However, unfortunately, much is police theory. Most egregiously, the timeline reported by law enforcement was not obtained through interviews with Dr. Murray, as was implied by the affidavit. Dr. Murray simply never told investigators that he found Michael Jackson at 11:00 am not breathing. He also never said that he waited a mere ten minutes before leaving to make several phone calls. In fact, Dr. Murray never said that he left Michael Jackson’s room to make phone calls at all.

We will not comment on the “anonymous” law enforcement source that claims that Michael Jackson’s death will be ruled a homicide. Most of the reports by “anonymous” sources have been proven wrong. We will be happy to address the Coroner’s report when it is officially released.”


http://houstoncriminallaw-pressroom.com/

Chernoff is Murray's attorney, right?

[puppies]

My bet would be the doctor doesn't know how much he gave him - he probably can't calculate dosage/kg. He is a liar anyway, imo. Who knows what to believe anymore. Trust me, he will be saying all the "right" things - that class he did not miss. What he doesn't know, is that we've heard it all before and with the end result, none of it makes sense.


yeah I would only ask him why on earth did he wait more than 1 hour to call 911??:angry:

[retiredcop]

The coroner has ruled its a homicide. The preliminary report says that MJ died from a lethal dose of propofol and that Dr. Murray administered it along with massive doses of various other drugs. If you add those facts together, it equates to homicide, and thats what the coroner has determined.

imo...of course.

That's what I am looking for! The preliminary report from the coroner.

Do you have a link?

in my opinion

[Rayosunshine]

He got his degree in the U.S.
He never got board certified.
You do the math.

I had heard Grenada? Which Medical School in the US? thanks

[Eagleeye]

But you do if the heart stops and it appears it did stop. How long did that faint heartbeat last? Not long I would say.

in my opinion

Then you are now finally admitting that he was dead. I am assuming that the faint heartbeat didn't last very long as the EMT's said he had expired. As I have repeatedly said, if there was low blood volume due to dehydration, chest compressions would be fruitless especially if he did have a faint heartbeat. Let's give this a rest (no pun intended) you must be as tired of posting about this subject as I am. :unsure:

[Rayosunshine]

yeah I would only ask him why on earth did he wait more than 1 hour to call 911??:angry:

It's called CYA, simply.

[retiredcop]

Chernoff is Murray's attorney, right?

Yes, everyone should know that by now. It's a better source than anonymous.:biggrin:

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

Chernoff is Murray's attorney, right?


hehe, yes he is. The attorney who has hired his own attorney and a publicist.

[Cindylee]

http://houstoncriminallaw-pressroom.com/biographical-information-%E2%80%93-dr-conrad-murray/

Biographical Information: Dr. Conrad Murray

Contact: Miranda Sevcik 713 515-9729

Dr. Conrad Murray was born in St. Andrews, Grenada. He spent the first seven years of his life being cared for by his maternal grandparents. His mother, Milta, traveled to Trinidad and Tobago, seeking better occupational opportunities. His grandparents were indigent farmers who lived off the land.

At age seven he moved to Trinidad & Tobago to join his mother and stepfather. He later became a citizen and completed his primary schooling under the British education system. At age 18 he spent a year as a voluntary elementary school teacher in Trinidad. He then became a customs clerk, and later worked as a part-time insurance underwriter for American Life Insurance Company. When he was 19 years old he bought his first home. The proceeds of its sale later funded his education in the United States.

In 1978, at the age of 25, he met his father for the first time, Rawle Andrews, M.D.. Dr. Andrews served the greater Houston metropolitan area for 37 years prior to his death.

In the spring of 1980, Dr. Murray returned to Houston and enrolled at Texas Southern University. He completed his degree in pre-medicine and biological sciences in three years and graduated with honors as Magna Cum Laude.

In 1989 he graduated with a degree in medicine from Meharry Medical College in Nashville, Tennessee. This followed his return from 4th year senior elective medical training at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. In 1992, he completed his internship and residency at Loma Linda University Medical Center, in Loma Linda, CA.

After Loma Linda Medical Center, he attended the University of Arizona for his Cardiology Fellowship training. Dr. Murray later went into his sub-specialty training at University of San Diego and Sharp Healthcare in San Diego, California. There, Dr. Murray was under the guidance of renowned Interventional Cardiologist, Professor Maurice Buchbinder, M.D., with whom he spent 3 years following his training as the associate director for the interventional cardiology fellowship-training program at Sharp Memorial Hospital San Diego.

>>>>snipped>>>>>>

It looks like he had an outstanding education. What a waste, all that time and money and he gives it all up for MJ. and money.

[retiredcop]

Then you are now finally admitting that he was dead. I am assuming that the faint heartbeat didn't last very long as the EMT's said he had expired. As I have repeatedly said, if there was low blood volume due to dehydration, chest compressions would be fruitless especially if he did have a faint heartbeat. Let's give this a rest (no pun intended) you must be as tired of posting about this subject as I am. :unsure:

If you have a chance watch "The last days of Michael Jackson" on the TV Guide channel. Very informative about what happened on the scene and about the EMTs and ER.



in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

That's what I am looking for! The preliminary report from the coroner.

Do you have a link?

in my opinion


Its in the sworn statement. The statement of facts, sworn to under penalty of perjury.

[Rayosunshine]

hehe, yes he is. The attorney who has hired his own attorney and a publicist.

At least Chernoff speaks as though he does have some smarts. An attorney - I know them I've been married to one for 28 years. His favorite t-shirt has a shark on it and it says, "trust me, I'm a lawyer", lol.

[Rayosunshine]

Its in the sworn statement. The statement of facts, sworn to under penalty of perjury.

Isn't it in the Texas document? I don't know the link and only saw a part of it, locked up my computer and had to "force quit".

[?WudScoobyDo]

yeah I would only ask him why on earth did he wait more than 1 hour to call 911??:angry:


Well..for 47 minutes of that hour, he was talking on the phone to people apparently more important than 911 dispatch.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Isn't it in the Texas document? I don't know the link and only saw a part of it, locked up my computer and had to "force quit".


Yes.. the statement of facts leading to probable cause to secure and execute the search warrant.

[retiredcop]

hehe, yes he is. The attorney who has hired his own attorney and a publicist.

Another rumor. :laugh:

in my opinion

[Rayosunshine]

http://houstoncriminallaw-pressroom.com/biographical-information-%E2%80%93-dr-conrad-murray/

Biographical Information: Dr. Conrad Murray

Contact: Miranda Sevcik 713 515-9729

Dr. Conrad Murray was born in St. Andrews, Grenada. He spent the first seven years of his life being cared for by his maternal grandparents. His mother, Milta, traveled to Trinidad and Tobago, seeking better occupational opportunities. His grandparents were indigent farmers who lived off the land.

At age seven he moved to Trinidad & Tobago to join his mother and stepfather. He later became a citizen and completed his primary schooling under the British education system. At age 18 he spent a year as a voluntary elementary school teacher in Trinidad. He then became a customs clerk, and later worked as a part-time insurance underwriter for American Life Insurance Company. When he was 19 years old he bought his first home. The proceeds of its sale later funded his education in the United States.

In 1978, at the age of 25, he met his father for the first time, Rawle Andrews, M.D.. Dr. Andrews served the greater Houston metropolitan area for 37 years prior to his death.

In the spring of 1980, Dr. Murray returned to Houston and enrolled at Texas Southern University. He completed his degree in pre-medicine and biological sciences in three years and graduated with honors as Magna Cum Laude.

In 1989 he graduated with a degree in medicine from Meharry Medical College in Nashville, Tennessee. This followed his return from 4th year senior elective medical training at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. In 1992, he completed his internship and residency at Loma Linda University Medical Center, in Loma Linda, CA.

After Loma Linda Medical Center, he attended the University of Arizona for his Cardiology Fellowship training. Dr. Murray later went into his sub-specialty training at University of San Diego and Sharp Healthcare in San Diego, California. There, Dr. Murray was under the guidance of renowned Interventional Cardiologist, Professor Maurice Buchbinder, M.D., with whom he spent 3 years following his training as the associate director for the interventional cardiology fellowship-training program at Sharp Memorial Hospital San Diego.

>>>>snipped>>>>>>

It looks like he had an outstanding education. What a waste, all that time and money and he gives it all up for MJ. and money.

Makes you wonder, with all the fluff in his bio, what happened? I hope those people he studied under will be interviewed on LKL.

[?WudScoobyDo]

http://houstoncriminallaw-pressroom.com/biographical-information-%E2%80%93-dr-conrad-murray/

Biographical Information: Dr. Conrad Murray
snipped


It looks like he had an outstanding education. What a waste, all that time and money and he gives it all up for MJ. and money.


I have wondered why he was so broke? Unable or unwilling to support his numerous children, unable to pay his mortgage, and I believe defaulted on student loans. Doesn't a successful doctor have at least some money to support himself and family. Living in Las Vegas, I wonder if he has a gambling problem.

[retiredcop]

Its in the sworn statement. The statement of facts, sworn to under penalty of perjury.

Where is it said the coroner has ruled this a homicide? Where is the preliminary report from the coroner?


In my opinion

[Not Telling]

thanks for the link,mrsmcgoo

DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion is available as follows:

20 mL ready-to use single patient infusion vial.
50 mL ready-to use single patient infusion vial.
100 mL ready-to use single patient infusion vial.



He said 25mg,right?
So how did he do it,he took 20 from one bottle and opened another one for another 5?:huh: (yeah right)

I think he gave him more than 25.......

How many mg. of diprivan per ml?

The link you thanked mrsmcgoo for posting states that 2.5 mL = 25mg. 5 mL = 50 mg.

[retiredcop]

Well..for 47 minutes of that hour, he was talking on the phone to people apparently more important than 911 dispatch.

I don't believe for one second that's true. He never told the police he discoverd Mr Jackson not breathing at 11:00.

in my opinion

[mrsmcgoo]

Hi Cinder...

Snipped from your post:It looks like he had an outstanding education. What a waste, all that time and money and he gives it all up for MJ. and money.

I agree!
I wonder if he didn't have the money problems, would he have ever put himself in this position?

I know this is not a popular opinion, but if it hadn't of been Dr. Murray, it would have been another Dr. MJ seemed to get what he wanted and if he wanted this drug to sleep, he wouldn't have stopped until he got it.

What a mess!


JMO

[Eagleeye]

If you have a chance watch "The last days of Michael Jackson" on the TV Guide channel. Very informative about what happened on the scene and about the EMTs and ER.



in my opinion

cop, I don't know what the TV Guide channel is. I have seen people mention it but have never looked for it. Is it on the net or on the Television?

[retiredcop]

Makes you wonder, with all the fluff in his bio, what happened? I hope those people he studied under will be interviewed on LKL.

Oh please. I had a feeling his bio would shock you. Thanks Cindylee. I was going to go get the same link myself. Saved me the trouble.

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

Hi Cinder...

Snipped from your post:It looks like he had an outstanding education. What a waste, all that time and money and he gives it all up for MJ. and money.

I agree!
I wonder if he didn't have the money problems, would he have ever put himself in this position?

I know this is not a popular opinion, but if it hadn't of been Dr. Murray, it would have been another Dr. MJ seemed to get what he wanted and if he wanted this drug to sleep, he wouldn't have stopped until he got it.

What a mess!


JMO

I agree. You should have been here last night. I was fighting that battle. Good to see you. :wink:

[?WudScoobyDo]

Where is it said the coroner has ruled this a homicide? Where is the preliminary report from the coroner?


In my opinion


A quick review leads me to page 23 of 32.. the paragraph starting with;
The LA Chief Medical Examiner....and throughout the document the indication that they are searching for evidence of homicide. Now I think I have a better answer for you, but will be late to work, if I sit here, and reread the documents. If I can, I will update my response later on.

[Not Telling]

Originally Posted by Not Telling
How was MJ dehydrated when he had been receiving IV fluids for approximately 11 hours before he died? Someone suffering from dehydration can be rehydrated in as little as several hours with IV fluids...

Brought over from Wrongful death thread.

Just because there was an IV bag on that pole doesn't mean that he was hydrated for 11 hours. That is a supposition by yourself. Dr. Murray supposedly didn't give him an IV suspension of propofol until around 10:00 am the day he died after he had ingested numerous drugs through the morning which didn't make him sleep. I think he was too wired from the rehearsal. Any of those drugs could have given MJ Bradycardia (slowness of the heart). Symptoms such as fatigue, weakness, dizziness, lightheadedness and shortness of breath were likely present and with the infusion of Propofol which slows the heartrate even further, was more that MJ's heart could handle.

Secondly, Dr. Murray reported that MJ had a faint pulse and commenced CPR. YOU DON'T DO CPR ON A BARELY BEATING HEART. You take the chance of stopping it altogether. Dr. Murray should have recognized the symptoms of dehydration and as I have said here a few times before, given him and immediate push of IV fluids and mechanical ventilation or intubation. Dehydration lowers the blood volume and without that volume CPR (pumping his chest) would do nothing but create a larger problem. If you recall the EMT's wanted to call him dead at the scene. Dr. Murray insisted he be transported to the ER.

This is the last time I am going to reapeat this. MJ was dead when he got to the ER and they only worked on him for the benefit of the family waiting outside of the ER. It is done all the time to show that they did all the could to try and save him. Michael Jackson died at the hands of an incompetent Cardioligist and for that Dr. Murray will pay a huge price IMO.

Not telling, you just proved my point. Circulatory resusitation must be immediately available. ie IV fluids to rehydrate. I have not read that there were multiple empty bags of IV fluids found in the bedroom.


No where in the search warrant does it state that MJ ingested any of the medications...it states that they were all given by IV starting at 0200 hours...


The search warrant states that that at approximately 0200 hours, Murray INJECTED Jackson with 2 mg. Lorazepam (Ativan) AFTER DILUTION, PUSHED SLOWLY INTO HIS IV. At approximately 0300 hours, Murray then administered 2mg. Midazolam (Versed) to Jackson AFTER DILUTION, ALSO PUSHED SLOWLY INTO HIS IV. At approximately 0500 hours, Murray administered another 2mg. Lorazepam (Ativan) AFTER DILUTION, PUSHED SLOWLY INTO HIS IV. At approximately 0730 hours, Murray administered another 2mg. of Midazolam (Versed) AFTER DILUTION, INTO HIS IV. At approximately 1040 hours Murray finally administered 25mg. of Propofol (Diprivan) DILUTED WITH LIDOCAINE (Xylocaine) VIA IV DRIP to keep Jackson sedated after repeated demands/requests from Jackson...

[retiredcop]

cop, I don't know what the TV Guide channel is. I have seen people mention it but have never looked for it. Is it on the net or on the Television?

I have it through dish. It's on television and has very good shows. Through cable or satellite. I don't know how Mr Green gets it.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

cop, I don't know what the TV Guide channel is. I have seen people mention it but have never looked for it. Is it on the net or on the Television?

Its the channel that scrolls the tv listings for that day.

[Cindylee]

Oh please. I had a feeling his bio would shock you. Thanks Cindylee. I was going to go get the same link myself. Saved me the trouble.

in my opinion

He had an excellent education. All good schools. He was a board certified cardiologist up until last year, IIRC. He didn't pass the boards this last time.

[Eagleeye]

No where in the search warrant does it state that MJ ingested any of the medications...it states that they were all given by IV starting at 0200 hours...


The search warrant states that that at approximately 0200 hours, Murray INJECTED Jackson with 2 mg. Lorazepam (Ativan) AFTER DILUTION, PUSHED SLOWLY INTO HIS IV. At approximately 0300 hours, Murray then administered 2mg. Midazolam (Versed) to Jackson AFTER DILUTION, ALSO PUSHED SLOWLY INTO HIS IV. At approximately 0500 hours, Murray administered another 2mg. Lorazepam (Ativan) AFTER DILUTION, PUSHED SLOWLY INTO HIS IV. At approximately 0730 hours, Murray administered another 2mg. of Midazolam (Versed) AFTER DILUTION, INTO HIS IV. At approximately 1040 hours Murray finally administered 25mg. of Propofol (Diprivan) DILUTED WITH LIDOCAINE (Xylocaine) VIA IV DRIP to keep Jackson sedated after repeated demands/requests from Jackson...

So I used the word ingested instead of infused. Pardon me!!!! Please quit picking apart my posts. You knew dam well what I meant.

[puppies]

How many mg. of diprivan per ml?

The link you thanked mrsmcgoo for posting states that 2.5 mL = 25mg. 5 mL = 50 mg.


Sorry for the messy post.Not sure I get it 100% either.:blushing:

[retiredcop]

He had an excellent education. All good schools. He was a board certified cardiologist up until last year, IIRC. He didn't pass the boards this last time.

I looked him up a long time ago. What a shame he got mixed up with Jackson. I wonder if it is a sign of the times. The economic decline that got him in regard to earning big bucks. It doesn't matter to the practice of medicine to be board certified. It's only a test. I researched that one time when looking for a primary. I feel sorry for him. It's not popular, but he spent many years getting this excellent education.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

I looked him up a long time ago. What a shame he got mixed up with Jackson. I wonder if it is a sign of the times. The economic decline that got him in regard to earning big bucks. It doesn't matter to the practice of medicine to be board certified. It's only a test. I researched that one time when looking for a primary. I feel sorry for him. It's not popular, but he spent many years getting this excellent education.

in my opinion


But why was he so broke after 20 years in practice? Thats not reasonable, no matter the difficult economic times. I'm positive that I make far less than a doctor, yet I somehow manage to keep a roof over my head. What happened to Dr. Murray that lead him to desparation to take the Jackson "opportunity of a lifetime"?

[retiredcop]

Its the channel that scrolls the tv listings for that day.

No I don't think so. It is TV Guide Network. It shows different shows. I have never seen the listings on this channel.

Right now it's showing "Hollywood 411".

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

Well I looked to see if I could find The Last Days of Michael Jackson on the TV Guide Network. I couldn't. I would be interested who was the source for all that was stated.

[retiredcop]

But why was he so broke after 20 years in practice? Thats not reasonable, no matter the difficult economic times. I'm positive that I make far less than a doctor, yet I somehow manage to keep a roof over my head. What happened to Dr. Murray that lead him to desparation to take the Jackson "opportunity of a lifetime"?

All the women and kids? I don't know. It has nothing to do with his ability to be a doctor. He likes women. So what?

in my opinion

[Poochie Pie]

But why was he so broke after 20 years in practice? Thats not reasonable, no matter the difficult economic times. I'm positive that I make far less than a doctor, yet I somehow manage to keep a roof over my head. What happened to Dr. Murray that lead him to desparation to take the Jackson "opportunity of a lifetime"? Very good questions, ScoobyDo...!! I would be interested to know the answers...

Poochie

[retiredcop]

Well I looked to see if I could find The Last Days of Michael Jackson on the TV Guide Network. I couldn't. I would be interested who was the source for all that was stated.

Well right now it is Hollyood 411 with late breaking news on Michael Jackson and it's running the last days of him again after this. Michael Jackson: His Final Days is running again at 11:00 AM PT. Sorry, it's not the Last Days.

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

Well, I did find this just now:

TVGN Tue, Aug 25
2:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Wed, Aug 26
5:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Thu, Aug 27
7:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Sat, Aug 29
12:00 AM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Sat, Aug 29
4:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Sun, Aug 30
2:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Mon, Aug 31
1:00 AM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Mon, Aug 31
3:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Tue, Sep 1
7:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Tue, Sep 1
10:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Wed, Sep 2
3:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Thu, Sep 3
12:00 AM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Sat, Sep 5
3:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Sun, Sep 6
2:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days

No other info about it tho

[Cindylee]

No I don't think so. It is TV Guide Network. It shows different shows. I have never seen the listings on this channel.

Right now it's showing "Hollywood 411".

in my opinion

It is a regular channel. Has a lot of "special" type shows. On Dish network it is channel...117. The "Michael Jackson: His Final Days" is on at 11:00 am. Pacific Time.

[mrsmcgoo]

I agree. You should have been here last night. I was fighting that battle. Good to see you. :wink:

:thumbsup:

It's a battle that I feel is so true!!

I don't mean that in anyway to be disrespectful to anyone, but an addict will do whatever they need too. MJ is no different.

jmo

[Cindylee]

:thumbsup:

It's a battle that I feel is so true!!

I don't mean that in anyway to be disrespectful to anyone, but an addict will do whatever they need too. MJ is no different.

jmo

That is what I think. And with the type of drugs that MJ seemed to like, IMO it was just a matter of time before he died. The Dr.'s that have talked about the drugs, have said he must have built up a huge tolerance, to be able to tolerate the amount of drugs he was taking. Most people they said with the 2mg.'s of Ativan alone, would have been knocked out all day.

[retiredcop]

Well, I did find this just now:

TVGN Tue, Aug 25
2:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Wed, Aug 26
5:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Thu, Aug 27
7:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Sat, Aug 29
12:00 AM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Sat, Aug 29
4:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Sun, Aug 30
2:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Mon, Aug 31
1:00 AM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Mon, Aug 31
3:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Tue, Sep 1
7:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Tue, Sep 1
10:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Wed, Sep 2
3:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Thu, Sep 3
12:00 AM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Sat, Sep 5
3:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days
TVGN Sun, Sep 6
2:00 PM Michael Jackson: His Final Days

No other info about it tho



OK, that's worth watching for information. Mr Green pointed it out to me. It's an hour long. They are running a lot of shows on him. Another good one is comparing him and Elvis.

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

OK, that's worth watching for information. Mr Green pointed it out to me. It's an hour long.

in my opinion

I still can't find out who were the sources for this. It is a shame that only this channel is covering it tho. Oh well.

[Not Telling]

So I used the word ingested instead of infused. Pardon me!!!! Please quit picking apart my posts. You knew dam well what I meant.

I took your post to mean what you said...

[retiredcop]

It is a regular channel. Has a lot of "special" type shows. On Dish network it is channel...117. The "Michael Jackson: His Final Days" is on at 11:00 am. Pacific Time.

Another good one is where they compare him and Elvis. There is another one about him and his entourage and where they are now. Then there is the Michael Jackson story about his growing up and the Jackson 5. Very interesting. I love this channel. It's like little documentaries.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I still can't find out who were the sources for this. It is a shame that only this channel is covering it tho. Oh well.

If you watch it you will see the sources in the interviews. It is not all one sided. None of the little documentaries about him are on this channel. You will see how wrong the speculation has been about the EMTs and the ER.

in my opinion

[Not Telling]

Sorry for the messy post.Not sure I get it 100% either.:blushing:

Diprivan is not a 1:1 ratio (mg:ml)

Hope that makes sense!

[puppies]

Diprivan is not a 1:1 ratio (mg:ml)

Hope that makes sense!

Does now.Thank you.:smile:

[Firehead11]

If you watch it you will see the sources in the interviews. It is not all one sided. None of the little documentaries about him are on this channel. You will see how wrong the speculation has been about the EMTs and the ER.

in my opinion

I would love to watch it, that is why I looked for it however I do not get this channel. I can get just about any ther one tho.

[Cindylee]

Another good one is where they compare him and Elvis. There is another one about him and his entourage and where they are now. Then there is the Michael Jackson story about his growing up and the Jackson 5. Very interesting. I love this channel. It's like little documentaries.

in my opinion

I saw the Elvis one. It was good.

[impartial]

thanks for the link,mrsmcgoo

DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion is available as follows:

20 mL ready-to use single patient infusion vial.
50 mL ready-to use single patient infusion vial.
100 mL ready-to use single patient infusion vial.



He said 25mg,right?
So how did he do it,he took 20 from one bottle and opened another one for another 5?:huh: (yeah right)

I think he gave him more than 25.......


Murray said he gave 25 mgs, not mLs. mg=milligram; ml=millileter.

[Eagleeye]

No I don't think so. It is TV Guide Network. It shows different shows. I have never seen the listings on this channel.

Right now it's showing "Hollywood 411".

in my opinion

I found it on my TV it is the TVGN channel and Michael Jackson/His Final Days will be on here at 2:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time.

[Rayosunshine]

I would love to watch it, that is why I looked for it however I do not get this channel. I can get just about any ther one tho.

Does it stream on the net? I might check.

[?WudScoobyDo]

That is what I think. And with the type of drugs that MJ seemed to like, IMO it was just a matter of time before he died. The Dr.'s that have talked about the drugs, have said he must have built up a huge tolerance, to be able to tolerate the amount of drugs he was taking. Most people they said with the 2mg.'s of Ativan alone, would have been knocked out all day.

It might not have been a matter of time if Dr. Murray had followed a standard of care reasonable to the medical community, which would have been addiction treatment by qualified professionals. But then he might not get his bigtime paycheck.

imo...of course.

[Firehead11]

Does it stream on the net? I might check.

Trying to find that out but to no avail.... :crying:

[impartial]

:thumbsup:

It's a battle that I feel is so true!!

I don't mean that in anyway to be disrespectful to anyone, but an addict will do whatever they need too. MJ is no different.

jmo


Since it appears that MJ was getting diprivan from his other health care providers before Murray came onto the scene, if Murray didn't continue the practice, someone else would have. MJ tolerated diprivan for what appears to be years ... how does one dose equate to homicide given his history of use and tolerance.

:shrug:

[daniel green]

Interesting how some the same drugs ANS had in her system at time of death, MJ had as well.

Both were using Valium, Klonopin and Ativan.

She used the powerful sleep med, chloral hydrate.

MJ used two anesthetics--Versed and Diprivan on top of powerful
sleep med, Restoril.

It will be interesting to see just what all else MJ had in his system when he died.

[daniel green]

Since it appears that MJ was getting diprivan from his other health care providers before Murray came onto the scene, if Murray didn't continue the practice, someone else would have. MJ tolerated diprivan for what appears to be years ... how does one dose equate to homicide given his history of use and tolerance.

:shrug:

Gosh, yes. MJ had used diprivan for a decade. He'd been using Versed at least since 2003.

And all those opiates, the ativan, the sleep meds, muscle relaxers, etc, MJ had been using since 1984.

[puppies]

Since it appears that MJ was getting diprivan from his other health care providers before Murray came onto the scene, if Murray didn't continue the practice, someone else would have. MJ tolerated diprivan for what appears to be years ... how does one dose equate to homicide given his history of use and tolerance.

:shrug:

It still doesn't make it right.If you can't handle the patient,better back off.
If a husband is beating up his wife every day but then there comes a stranger giving her the final lethal hit,who's going to jail for murder?

[daniel green]

If you have a chance watch "The last days of Michael Jackson" on the TV Guide channel. Very informative about what happened on the scene and about the EMTs and ER.



in my opinion

It really is interesting. Especially since they interview the actual 911 dispatcher, etc. They speak about the ongoing conversations between EMT, dispatcher, hospital for the 38 mins they worked to stabilize Jackson at the house before he was safe enough to travel to the ER.

http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx?id=12010869

There is the info. The show is called, Michael Jackson: His Final Days.

[mrsmcgoo]

That is what I think. And with the type of drugs that MJ seemed to like, IMO it was just a matter of time before he died. The Dr.'s that have talked about the drugs, have said he must have built up a huge tolerance, to be able to tolerate the amount of drugs he was taking. Most people they said with the 2mg.'s of Ativan alone, would have been knocked out all day.


I heard Dr. Drew talking about this on LKL and he stated that it isn't unusual for an addict to develop a huge level of tolerance.

It really is a wonder that this didn't happen before.

JMO

[Firehead11]

It really is interesting. Especially since they interview the actual 911 dispatcher, etc. They speak about the ongoing conversations between EMT, dispatcher, hospital for the 38 mins they worked to stabilize Jackson at the house before he was safe enough to travel to the ER.

http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx?id=12010869

There is the info. The show is called, Michael Jackson: His Final Days.

Sorry, I believe he was DEAD before Murray ever called for help.

And apparently, LE doesn't believe that either so, I guess we will wait to see if ever there is a trial.

[Poochie Pie]

It really is interesting. Especially since they interview the actual 911 dispatcher, etc. They speak about the ongoing conversations between EMT, dispatcher, hospital for the 38 mins they worked to stabilize Jackson at the house before he was safe enough to travel to the ER.

http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx?id=12010869

There is the info. The show is called, Michael Jackson: His Final Days. "Stabilize" him..??? So, are they saying he died AT the Hospital, daniel..?? and that the EMT's did NOT want to "call it" when they got there..?? hmmmm... Interesting.. Still, IMO... he was gone before he ever arrived at the Hospital...

Poochie

[Cindylee]

It still doesn't make it right.If you can't handle the patient,better back off.
If a husband is beating up his wife every day but then there comes a stranger giving her the final lethal hit,who's going to jail for murder?

No one has said it was right. Not that I have seen anyway.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Since it appears that MJ was getting diprivan from his other health care providers before Murray came onto the scene, if Murray didn't continue the practice, someone else would have. MJ tolerated diprivan for what appears to be years ... how does one dose equate to homicide given his history of use and tolerance.

:shrug:

Because that one dose is what killed this victim, at the hands of another human being, without legal justification, making it equate to homicide.

imo...of course.

[Cindylee]

Sorry, I believe he was DEAD before Murray ever called for help.

And apparently, LE doesn't believe that either so, I guess we will wait to see if ever there is a trial.

I think so too, but as some have asked why would the ER work for an hour? :shrug:

[daniel green]

Who's to Blame in Jackson's Death?

snipped

And the bigger question -- is Dr. Murray the patsy -- taking the heat for years of prescription abuse at the hands of various doctors?

What do you think? (they have a poll)

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-drugs-prescription-polls/

Interesting poll results.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Gosh, yes. MJ had used diprivan for a decade. He'd been using Versed at least since 2003.

And all those opiates, the ativan, the sleep meds, muscle relaxers, etc, MJ had been using since 1984.


All those drugs you mention, were not self administered during the early morning hours of June 25, which is really the date that matters.

imo...of course.

[mrsmcgoo]

Since it appears that MJ was getting diprivan from his other health care providers before Murray came onto the scene, if Murray didn't continue the practice, someone else would have. MJ tolerated diprivan for what appears to be years ... how does one dose equate to homicide given his history of use and tolerance.

:shrug:

Good question and one that in my opinion, we may never know.

We only have bits and pieces of this puzzle, and those are sketchy at best. Can we believe the Dr. that it was only the one dose that night? I don't know at this point.

I myself have always felt it would be determined to be a combination of drugs.

jmo

[daniel green]

"Stabilize" him..??? So, are they saying he died AT the Hospital, daniel..?? and that the EMT's did NOT want to "call it" when they got there..?? hmmmm... Interesting.. Still, IMO... he was gone before he ever arrived at the Hospital...

Poochie

Yes, they are. And this show has the info from the horse's mouth. From the dispatcher and folks from the EMT. That they worked on MJ for 38 mins in the house, stablizing him and took him to the ER when the ER docs who were on the phone with them said MJ appeared well enough to transport.

And yes, MJ died at the hospital, over an hour after he arrived in the ER.

[Cindylee]

From the TVGuide tv show. MJ reportedly called his manager after the rehearsal saying he wasn't feeling well.

[daniel green]

From the TVGuide tv show. MJ reportedly called his manager after the rehearsal saying he wasn't feeling well.

Yes, I noticed that.

[Cindylee]

Yes, they are. And this show has the info from the horse's mouth. From the dispatcher and folks from the EMT. That they worked on MJ for 38 mins in the house, stablizing him and took him to the ER when the ER docs who were on the phone with them said MJ appeared well enough to transport.

And yes, MJ died at the hospital, over an hour after he arrived in the ER.

Wow, I just turned it on. I will have to watch it again later.

[daniel green]

snipped
I myself have always felt it would be determined to be a combination of drugs.

jmo

In the Affidavit for search warrants for Klein, Murray, Adams, Rosen, Nurse Lee and the other docs I can't remember now, the LAPD states that they do not know if the death resulted from one single night's drugs or from a long time overuse of drugs given by multiple docs, multiple drugs.

[impartial]

Because that one dose is what killed this victim, at the hands of another human being, without legal justification, making it equate to homicide.

imo...of course.


Hi Wud !

If losing a patient all by itself amounted to homicide, then most doctors would be charged. Performing below the standard of practice is malpractice, not homicide.

Some egregious examples that did not result in criminal investigations -pushing KCL instead of piggybacking, patient dead within 15 minutes; removing the wrong kidney thereby leaving a non-functioning kidney; failing to hospitalize a 14 year old with spiking fevers to 108 degrees ... I could go on. I don't have a link because these were cases wherein I represented the doctors.

imo

[Eagleeye]

It really is interesting. Especially since they interview the actual 911 dispatcher, etc. They speak about the ongoing conversations between EMT, dispatcher, hospital for the 38 mins they worked to stabilize Jackson at the house before he was safe enough to travel to the ER.

http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx?id=12010869

There is the info. The show is called, Michael Jackson: His Final Days.

Safe enough or dead and Murray wanted him transported to the ER so he wouldn't be pronounced on his watch? Before I say anymore about this I want to watch it. In fact record every word.

[daniel green]

Sorry, I believe he was DEAD before Murray ever called for help.

And apparently, LE doesn't believe that either so, I guess we will wait to see if ever there is a trial.

Where did you get that LE believes he was dead before he was pronounced dead at the hospital? :confused:

[mrsmcgoo]

It might not have been a matter of time if Dr. Murray had followed a standard of care reasonable to the medical community, which would have been addiction treatment by qualified professionals. But then he might not get his bigtime paycheck.

imo...of course.

That can be said about many many Dr.'s that treated MJ over the years.

He just happened to be the one at the scene that day.

JMO

[daniel green]

If you watch it you will see the sources in the interviews. It is not all one sided. None of the little documentaries about him are on this channel. You will see how wrong the speculation has been about the EMTs and the ER.

in my opinion

Certainly will. I watched it this weekend and having gone by what has been posted here over and over that Murray had no monitoring of MJ (wrong, he did) or that the EMT's though MJ was dead already, that Murray called the shots--none of that is true.

[impartial]

Yes, they are. And this show has the info from the horse's mouth. From the dispatcher and folks from the EMT. That they worked on MJ for 38 mins in the house, stablizing him and took him to the ER when the ER docs who were on the phone with them said MJ appeared well enough to transport.

And yes, MJ died at the hospital, over an hour after he arrived in the ER.


I wondered why Murray refused to sign the death certificate ... now I understand.

Did they say anything about whether Murray gave them a history of the 25 mg diprivan?

[daniel green]

That can be said about many many Dr.'s that treated MJ over the years.

He just happened to be the one at the scene that day.

JMO

Murray says he'd been giving MJ diprivan every night for 6 wks. MJ had been using diprivan for a decade, with multiple docs.

Have you ever heard of any patient who uses not one but TWO anesthesiologists as primary care physicians, other than MJ? :scared:

[Firehead11]

I think so too, but as some have asked why would the ER work for an hour? :shrug:

Like I have said, they did the same with my friend's husband. He was dead before they loaded him onto the stretcher. But still they didn't call him DOA. :confused: I think in the application for the warrant, it states that Murray refused to call him at the hospital also. :confused: I have to bring that back up to read which page. Maybe that was the delay? I thought maybe they were waiting for all of the familty to get there, I have no idea.

Where did we get that the ER worked on him for over an hour?

[Imperfect4]

I agree. You should have been here last night. I was fighting that battle. Good to see you. :wink:

:seeya: I had to get out of here last nite before I got myself in trouble. Guess I missed your return.

[daniel green]

I wondered why Murray refused to sign the death certificate ... now I understand.

Did they say anything about whether Murray gave them a history of the 25 mg diprivan?

Not on that documentary, no. I did not realize that 2 EMT trucks and 6 firetrucks had gone to MJ's rented house, nor that the EMTs and the ER docs were in communication the whole time, prior to watching this.

[puppies]

That can be said about many many Dr.'s that treated MJ over the years.

He just happened to be the one at the scene that day.

JMO

But didn't he know that Diprivan is not a sleeping pill?I think this is everybody's problem.....he gave MJ something he shouldn't have.It shouldn't have been in his house in the first place,doesn't even matter who purchased it for him.It matters that it was administered to him in the first place.Is there anyone on this planet who believes that taking anesthesics in order to get some sleep is a normal thing to do?

[?WudScoobyDo]

All the women and kids? I don't know. It has nothing to do with his ability to be a doctor. He likes women. So what?

in my opinion


So what? Its great that he likes women. Women get pregnant, and have children who have a legal and moral right to be supported by BOTH parents. Dr. Murray apparently didn't feel any responsibility to be responsible for his own children. He wasn't responsible enough to pay his bills, why should we think he was responsible enough to manage patients, if he can't manage his own life.

[Imperfect4]

It is a regular channel. Has a lot of "special" type shows. On Dish network it is channel...117. The "Michael Jackson: His Final Days" is on at 11:00 am. Pacific Time.

It's Channel 237 on DirectTV (satellite). It's playing right now in the west. I tuned in a few minutes ago -- about a half hour into the show.

[retiredcop]

I found it on my TV it is the TVGN channel and Michael Jackson/His Final Days will be on here at 2:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time.

OK, that's it. It is really good. Different people are interviewed. Kai, his chef about his breakfasts and the lunches with the children, his choreographer who rehearsed with him every day at the mansion. His rehearsals are in it. Responding Fire Captain is interviewed. There was no saying he was dead on scene. They were in contact with the ER while trying to stabilize him while still on scene. His arrival at the ER. The only crappy part is that Brian Oxman interview about what happened at the hospital. He is creepy. All relatives arrived minuets after he was declared dead. No pretense in ER for their sake. It will open your eyes about what has been speculation.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

Not on that documentary, no. I did not realize that 2 EMT trucks and 6 firetrucks had gone to MJ's rented house, nor that the EMTs and the ER docs were in communication the whole time, prior to watching this.


I'm just curious. I have noticed you always make it a point to say "rented house". I don't understand what difference that makes in the case. Do you think renters should have a different standard or something? I truly mean no snark, but I am curious.

[retiredcop]

It's Channel 237 on DirectTV (satellite). It's playing right now in the west. I tuned in a few minutes ago -- about a half hour into the show.

It will air again on the west at 2:00 pm.

[impartial]

But didn't he know that Diprivan is not a sleeping pill?I think this is everybody's problem.....he gave MJ something he shouldn't have.It shouldn't have been in his house in the first place,doesn't even matter who purchased it for him.It matters that it was administered to him in the first place.Is there anyone on this planet who believes that taking anesthesics in order to get some sleep is a normal thing to do?


I wouldn't ever call sedation sleep. Whoever was the wingnut that started this regime. Apparently regular sleeping meds didn't do the trick on MJ, but anesthesia for sleep? MJ only knew it knocked him out, so he equated it to sleep.

I am dehydrated for days after anesthesia, I can't imagine having it on a regular basis. I hate the stuff.

imo

[Firehead11]

Let me just say

*thud*

[Imperfect4]

It might not have been a matter of time if Dr. Murray had followed a standard of care reasonable to the medical community, which would have been addiction treatment by qualified professionals. But then he might not get his bigtime paycheck.

imo...of course.

It was MJ's responsibility to get himself sober, no one else's. Murray should not have done what he did, that goes without saying. He wouldn't have been there, doing what he did, if MJ had done the right thing -- get sober -- years ago, especially before he decided to become a father.

[mrsmcgoo]

But didn't he know that Diprivan is not a sleeping pill?I think this is everybody's problem.....he gave MJ something he shouldn't have.It shouldn't have been in his house in the first place,doesn't even matter who purchased it for him.It matters that it was administered to him in the first place.Is there anyone on this planet who believes that taking anesthesics in order to get some sleep is a normal thing to do?


Oh I agree careless for sure. But the history is there puppies. MJ was treated with Diprivan for years, by other Dr.'s. Other Dr.'s that treated him and at home and reportedly when MJ was on tour. That is the thing. Dr. Murray had poor ethics and judgement, but so did many who treated MJ over the years, except he died on Murray's watch.

Like I said and I"ll say it again. It's a wonder this didn't happen sooner.

JMO

[?WudScoobyDo]

That can be said about many many Dr.'s that treated MJ over the years.

He just happened to be the one at the scene that day.

JMO


I don't disagree with that. He also happened to be the one who stood to receive $150,000.00 per month salary to tend to his one patient.

[puppies]

Oh I agree careless for sure. But the history is there puppies. MJ was treated with Diprivan for years, by other Dr.'s. Other Dr.'s that treated him and at home and reportedly when MJ was on tour. That is the thing. Dr. Murray had poor ethics and judgement, but so did many who treated MJ over the years, except he died on Murray's watch.

Like I said and I"ll say it again. It's a wonder this didn't happen sooner.

JMO

I agree.It's not okay to blame it ALL on Murray.The fact that he was treated with it for years says a lot ,about everybody who knew it and agreed with it.

[Cindylee]

But didn't he know that Diprivan is not a sleeping pill?I think this is everybody's problem.....he gave MJ something he shouldn't have.It shouldn't have been in his house in the first place,doesn't even matter who purchased it for him.It matters that it was administered to him in the first place.Is there anyone on this planet who believes that taking anesthesics in order to get some sleep is a normal thing to do?

No Diprovan should never have been used, and no it shouldn't have been there. I think MJ got to liking it with his surgeries, and treatments. Why he would like it I have no idea. It wouldn't be like getting high on something. Although it has been posted that some anesthesiologists have been addicted to it. :shrug:

[retiredcop]

I'm just curious. I have noticed you always make it a point to say "rented house". I don't understand what difference that makes in the case. Do you think renters should have a different standard or something? I truly mean no snark, but I am curious.

It is a rented house. The question here is what difference it makes to YOU. Just saying.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

It is a rented house. The question here is what difference it makes to YOU. Just saying.

in my opinion


Perhaps you misunderstood. I wasn't asking you.

[Imperfect4]

It will air again on the west at 2:00 pm.

2:00pm tomorrow is the next airing, according to my TV listings.

[Cindylee]

I'm just curious. I have noticed you always make it a point to say "rented house". I don't understand what difference that makes in the case. Do you think renters should have a different standard or something? I truly mean no snark, but I am curious. the TV show kept calling it MJ's rental house.

[Cindylee]

It was MJ's responsibility to get himself sober, no one else's. Murray should not have done what he did, that goes without saying. He wouldn't have been there, doing what he did, if MJ had done the right thing -- get sober -- years ago, especially before he decided to become a father.

I agree......

[Imperfect4]

I agree.It's not okay to blame it ALL on Murray.The fact that he was treated with it for years says a lot ,about everybody who knew it and agreed with it.

Including the patient.

[Firehead11]

Could Have, Should Have, Would Have................. doesn't make a bit of difference now. Jackson is dead. Overdosed on medicines that Murray gave him thru an IV. And from that search warrant application, he gave him a lot of different drugs.

Why continue to argue over what he should have done? Wouldn't the point be more to what should be done now?

[Cindylee]

Oh I agree careless for sure. But the history is there puppies. MJ was treated with Diprivan for years, by other Dr.'s. Other Dr.'s that treated him and at home and reportedly when MJ was on tour. That is the thing. Dr. Murray had poor ethics and judgement, but so did many who treated MJ over the years, except he died on Murray's watch.

Like I said and I"ll say it again. It's a wonder this didn't happen sooner.

JMO

And, I agree.....

[puppies]

Including the patient.

Sometimes sadly the patient isn't thinking straight anymore and that's why he needs help.Who wants and likes a life like this...it's only an illusion.

[?WudScoobyDo]

the TV show kept calling it MJ's rental house.

I had hoped DG would answer my question, but since she hasn't I will accept your answer in her behalf. I just failed to see the necessity in including the word on so many posts.

[retiredcop]

2:00pm tomorrow is the next airing, according to my TV listings.

On Dish it's 2:00 pm here on the west coast today. I just checked again.

[Imperfect4]

Could Have, Should Have, Would Have................. doesn't make a bit of difference now. Jackson is dead. Overdosed on medicines that Murray gave him thru an IV. And from that search warrant application, he gave him a lot of different drugs.

Why continue to argue over what he should have done? Wouldn't the point be more to what should be done now?

What should be done now, imo, is to prosecute all the medical care "professionals" who are found to have helped MJ continue his addiction. Hopefully that will send the message that enabling addicts, no matter who they are, will not be tolerated by those in the medical field.

Then perhaps, once we've taken away all excuses for why addicts use, we can hold them accountable for choosing to stay addicted.

While there are scapegoats like Murray available, it seems clear addicts will not be expected to take personal responsibility for themselves.

[Cindylee]

Could Have, Should Have, Would Have................. doesn't make a bit of difference now. Jackson is dead. Overdosed on medicines that Murray gave him thru an IV. And from that search warrant application, he gave him a lot of different drugs.

Why continue to argue over what he should have done? Wouldn't the point be more to what should be done now?

What is being done now, is that the police are looking into it. What else needs to be done now IMO is take MJ out of the freezer and bury him. Forget about the concerts, and the estate for a second and put MJ to rest. How long can it take? And no, I am not part of his family, and don't know what they are going through.

[Imperfect4]

On Dish it's 2:00 pm here on the west coast today. I just checked again.

I've got DirectTV. Guess that explains the difference.

[Scampi]

I'm sorry but I do blame it all on Murray. He was the doctor and MJ was the patient. One had more responsibility then the other, imo.

Murray should have known better then to inject all those very dangerous drugs into his patient, without having the necessary equipment available to monitor his patient's responses and to initiate emergency measures if necessary. He had none of this and in addition, he LEFT HIS PATIENT UNATTENDED. This is disgraceful in my opinion and criminal.

[?WudScoobyDo]

I'm sorry but I do blame it all on Murray. He was the doctor and MJ was the patient. One had more responsibility then the other, imo.

Murray should have known better then to inject all those very dangerous drugs into his patient, without having the necessary equipment available to monitor his patient's responses and to initiate emergency measures if necessary. He had none of this and in addition, he LEFT HIS PATIENT UNATTENDED. This is disgraceful in my opinion and criminal.


Wow! Nice to see you Scampi. I have missed that beautiful blue color. I agree with your post, by the way.

[retiredcop]

I've got DirectTV. Guess that explains the difference.

I recorded this because it has so much information.:smile:

in my opinion

[Imperfect4]

I'm sorry but I do blame it all on Murray. He was the doctor and MJ was the patient. One had more responsibility then the other, imo.

Murray should have known better then to inject all those very dangerous drugs into his patient, without having the necessary equipment available to monitor his patient's responses and to initiate emergency measures if necessary. He had none of this and in addition, he LEFT HIS PATIENT UNATTENDED. This is disgraceful in my opinion and criminal.

No argument, Scamp. However, if MJ wasn't a substance abuser, Murray would not have been hired to sit by his bedside every night, pumping him full of drugs. The problem didn't start with Murray. And even if the problem started with a prescription written by some doc long ago, it was always MJ's ultimate responsibility to find more productive ways to deal with his illnesses, conditions, and life, than developing a very serious, dangerous drug habit.

[Emerald]

I think Michael wanted to die. jmo

JMO

I agree. It would have been a long time ago had it not been for his children. I can certainly relate to that. Every single day is a battle to live through the pressures to be what everyone expects.

ETA.... I can come and go at will, without having any public scrutiny. MJ couldn't walk out his front door or have a conversation without the constant overbearing pressure of his notoriety.

[Imperfect4]

I recorded this because it has so much information.:smile:

in my opinion

I'm going to try to tune in tomorrow at 2pm to catch the first half of it.

[mrsmcgoo]

I wouldn't ever call sedation sleep. Whoever was the wingnut that started this regime. Apparently regular sleeping meds didn't do the trick on MJ, but anesthesia for sleep? MJ only knew it knocked him out, so he equated it to sleep.

I am dehydrated for days after anesthesia, I can't imagine having it on a regular basis. I hate the stuff.

imo

I think this goes back to the plastic surgery. Just my opinion, but maybe MJ enjoyed that feeling or somehow felt relaxed when he was put under. Then he starting asking Dr.'s for the drug.

JMO

[Cindylee]

I think this goes back to the plastic surgery. Just my opinion, but maybe MJ enjoyed that feeling or somehow felt relaxed when he was put under. Then he starting asking Dr.'s for the drug.

JMO

I think that was when it started too.

[mrsmcgoo]

I don't disagree with that. He also happened to be the one who stood to receive $150,000.00 per month salary to tend to his one patient.

Shameful really.

There are alot of people who hold trusted positions in our society who seem to lose all sense of logic, moral and duty when money comes in to play.

Even those under professional oaths unfortunately.

JMO

[Eagleeye]

Murray says he'd been giving MJ diprivan every night for 6 wks. MJ had been using diprivan for a decade, with multiple docs.

Have you ever heard of any patient who uses not one but TWO anesthesiologists as primary care physicians, other than MJ? :scared:

Which two anesthesiologists? If you are talking about Dr Klein and Dr. Murray, let me break this to you gently. Dr. Murray is a Cardiologist.

[Cindylee]

Shameful really.

There are alot of people who hold trusted positions in our society who seem to lose all sense of logic, moral and duty when money comes in to play.

Even those under professional oaths unfortunately.

JMO

It is shameful. Dr.'s, Attnys. etc. put in so much time, work, and money to get those diplomas. It seems such a waste. You would think they would think twice about doing something illegal or unethical. But, as you say money talks to some. Unfortunately.

[retiredcop]

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1918363,00.html

snipped

With the wisdom of hindsight, Deepak Chopra recalls a conversation he had with Michael Jackson a few years ago. "He said there's something you can take that takes you to the valley of death and then takes you back," the best-selling author and physician tells TIME. "I hadn't the vaguest idea of what he was talking about. And then he quickly changed the subject." Now, says Chopra, "I see he was talking about propofol."

[Scampi]

No argument, Scamp. However, if MJ wasn't a substance abuser, Murray would not have been hired to sit by his bedside every night, pumping him full of drugs. The problem didn't start with Murray. And even if the problem started with a prescription written by some doc long ago, it was always MJ's ultimate responsibility to find more productive ways to deal with his illnesses, conditions, and life, than developing a very serious, dangerous drug habit.

That's just it IMP, MJ had an illness. It was up to the physician to treat it. Murray failed his patient by a total disregard for
his safety in treating the illness., to the extent of not having the proper equipment or meds available to revive him should he crash, which he did while not being attended.

[Eagleeye]

Interesting poll results.

To say the least.

[retiredcop]

Shameful really.

There are alot of people who hold trusted positions in our society who seem to lose all sense of logic, moral and duty when money comes in to play.

Even those under professional oaths unfortunately.

JMO

I think the problem here is Dr Murray was administering this drug to Mr Jackson every night for six weeks and had no problem. He believed Mr Jackson was getting addicted. Little did he realize Mr Jackson had been using this drug for years and was totally addicted. When he tried to ween him off it by using other drugs, it backfired.

Mr Jackson should have been honest with his doctor.

This does not rise to manslaughter in my opinion.

in my opinion

[Scampi]

Wow! Nice to see you Scampi. I have missed that beautiful blue color. I agree with your post, by the way.

Hiya Scoob!! Great to be on the same side in this issue. :seeya:

[?WudScoobyDo]

I think the problem here is Dr Murray was administering this drug to Mr Jackson every night for six weeks and had no problem. He believed Mr Jackson was getting addicted. Little did he realize Mr Jackson had been using this drug for years and was totally addicted. When he tried to ween him off it by using other drugs, it backfired.

Mr Jackson should have been honest with his doctor.

This does not rise to manslaughter in my opinion.

in my opinion


It's okay. You don't have to agree with the charges that will be brought against him. I often side with the defendant, and am usually one of few who do.

[Cindylee]

EXCLUSIVE: Dr Conrad Murray's Defense: Michael Jackson's Drug Addiction Killed Him EXCLUSIVE: Dr Conrad Murray's Defense: Michael Jackson's Drug Addiction Killed Him
Bookmark and Share
Posted on Aug 25, 2009 @ 02:16PM
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Random Things
Splash News

With the net closing in on Dr. Conrad Murray, RadarOnline.com spoke exclusively with power house criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos about what Dr. Murray's defense strategy might be.

BREAKING NEWS: Court Documents Confirm Michael Jackson Died From Propofol

"This case will be won or lost during jury selection," Geragos tells RadarOnline.com. "The defense would be looking for a juror that take a strong position, and side with doctors and not second guess doctors. The prosecution would be looking for people that are sympathetic to Michael Jackson. This isn't a slam dank case for the prosecution. It's very hard for a jury to convict a doctor of criminal wrongdoing."

VIDEO: Secret Tapes Reveal Michael Jackson’s Fear Of His Advisor

"The defense looks like it's shaping up to be that Dr. Murray encountered an addict and he was trying to wean Michael off the drugs and he was the last man standing. It will also come down to causation, meaning whether it was those particular drugs that caused Michael's death. It will also be a battle of the experts. The defense could say that the Los Angeles County Coroner was influenced by the cops and Murray could bring in his own pathologist to dispute the findings," Geragos says.

EXCLUSIVE: Dr. Drew Explains New Mystery Drug in Michael Jackson Death Cocktail

The biggest hurdle facing Dr. Murray is explaining why Propofol was being used in a home setting, says Geragos. "That will be the biggest obstacle for Murray to overcome, is explaining why Propofol was being used at home. Dr. Murray's attorney's will say that he was trying to help Michael."
www.radaronline.com

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20287787_20300194,00.html?cnn=yes

Police: Michael Jackson's Doctor Waited 82 Mins. Before Dialing 911

Police later obtained Murray's cell phone records, which revealed he was on the phone for 47 minutes – in three separate calls – beginning at 11:18 a.m., something he did not reveal to investigators, according to the affidavit. The document suggests Murray was either not paying full attention to Jackson's monitoring, or was frantically making calls following the discovery that the singer had stopped breathing.

[retiredcop]

Hiya Scoob!! Great to be on the same side in this issue. :seeya:

Doesn't that make you wonder if you are on the wrong side.:biggrin:

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20287787_20300194,00.html?cnn=yes

Police: Michael Jackson's Doctor Waited 82 Mins. Before Dialing 911

Police later obtained Murray's cell phone records, which revealed he was on the phone for 47 minutes – in three separate calls – beginning at 11:18 a.m., something he did not reveal to investigators, according to the affidavit. The document suggests Murray was either not paying full attention to Jackson's monitoring, or was frantically making calls following the discovery that the singer had stopped breathing.


The big question is to whom were those 3 frantic calls made, more important than dialing 911, or even calling someone who could give him the address of his place of employment.

[Cindylee]

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/08/video-secret-tapes-reveal-michael-jackson%E2%80%99s-fear-his-advisor

MJ tape tells his spiritual adviser that he didn't trust Thome Thome.



Recordings from Michael Jackson to his spiritual adviser June Gatlin indicate the Thriller singer was fearful of Dr. Tohme R. Tohme, the advisor he had appointed to preside over his personal affairs last year.

"He just has ways about him ... the things he's done," Jackson tells Gatlin on the tapes. "There's a divide between my representatives and I ... I don't talk to my lawyer or my accountant -- he talks to them, and I talk to him."

On the tape, Jackson revealed his concerns over Tohme's control over his finances.

"I know it’s not good -- I don't know what's in my account," he said.

Tohme, according to the Today Show, met Jackson through the late King of Pop's brother, Jermaine, when he was battling to keep his Neverland estate last year. He is not a licensed physical in the U.S.

Tohme said in a Today Show appearance two weeks after Jackson’s death that he was in control of the singer’s day-to-day life. According to the show, Tohme has been fingered in connection with many illicit real estate deals.

Jackson died after suffering a sudden cardiac arrest June 25 in Los Angeles; results of an autopsy conducted on the pop icon are being withheld by the Los Angeles Coroner's Office until the police investigation has been completed.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Doesn't that make you wonder if you are on the wrong side.:biggrin:

in my opinion

I guess this type comment is okay as long as you put a cute emoticon in the post.

[retiredcop]

To say the least.

Where is the poll? I can't find the original post you quoted and can't bring up the link.

[Cindylee]

I guess this type comment is okay as long as you put a cute emoticon in the post. I don't speak for Retiredcop, but maybe he/she was just trying to joke with you a little. Maybe?

[?WudScoobyDo]

I don't speak for Retiredcop, but maybe he/she was just trying to joke with you a little. Maybe?

Maybe. Maybe not. Its no big deal either way.

[retiredcop]

The big question is to whom were those 3 frantic calls made, more important than dialing 911, or even calling someone who could give him the address of his place of employment.

What 3 "frantic" calls. Link?

in my opinion

[Eagleeye]

2:00pm tomorrow is the next airing, according to my TV listings.

2:00 PM PDT Today August 25, 2009 and every day this week.

[?WudScoobyDo]

What 3 "frantic" calls. Link?

in my opinion


Directing you to post #209.

[retiredcop]

Directing you to post #209.

Oh you mean the suggestion from the magazine? I got it now.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

Oh you mean the suggestion from the magazine? I got it now.

in my opinion


Its also in the sworn affidavit released yesterday by the Texas authorities.

[Eagleeye]

Where is the poll? I can't find the original post you quoted and can't bring up the link.

I didn't post it Daniel did. Here it is.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-drugs-prescription-polls/

[Firehead11]

Oh you mean the suggestion from the magazine? I got it now.

in my opinion

suggestion?

Some posters here disagree with your stance, others agree.

And Murray isn't the scapegoat for Jackson's death. He contributed to it.

Again if this had happened to anyone in your own family you would be screaming from the rooftops about incompetent this doctor acted during an emergency that HE created.

Amazing to me...........

[Firehead11]

---------------
Good post, Cop. I agree.......this does not rise to manslaughter......more like malpractice. Gee........it amazes how everyone has Murray convicted already. I also read here a poster said she was gonna get the cross out of the shed. If i didnt know better, i would have thought our Constitution was thrown out the window.
imo

It sure was.... You know innocent until proven guilty... are you speaking about that one?

[?WudScoobyDo]

-----------------

uncalled for.


It was an opinion, and not a violation of TOS. Ignore is a great feature, I suggest you might benefit from utilizing it. Hope your day is a pleasant one.

[?WudScoobyDo]

-----------------

u know exactly what i meant.


Forgive me for being so bold as to suggest that the same constitutional protection was and continues to be thrown out the window, in regards to MJ.

imo..of course.

[Firehead11]

If everyone though him guilty, we would be talking about his sentence. Personally, I want to see him charged with at least manslaughter. His actions alone prove disregard for a human life. And to call Jackson's son in to witness this bull is unreal.

Here is the big difference here... Many want Murray to get charged for his contribution to Jackson's death. I would also love to see a malpractice suit levied against him. He has yet to be charged or to stand trial. I know I am judging him by his own actions and lies that have been told. IF court records show that I have been lied to by the media, then I have my crow pie ready. And believe me I was shocked to read what drugs he had administered to Jackson in the hours prior to his death.

Jackson stood trial, was found NOT GUILTY but yet people did persecute him, even after he was found NOT GUILTY. Look at some of these posts and try to see the absolute hate that some have for the man. And you really believe he didn't know that?

IMO, a big difference when you talk about our constitution.

[Scampi]

Doesn't that make you wonder if you are on the wrong side.:biggrin:

in my opinion

You know I love ya more then my luggage, but I think you are on the wrong side with this one doll. Bet ya a cyber beer that Murray is arrested within 2 weeks. Are we on? :thumbsup:

[Imperfect4]

That's just it IMP, MJ had an illness. It was up to the physician to treat it. Murray failed his patient by a total disregard for
his safety in treating the illness., to the extent of not having the proper equipment or meds available to revive him should he crash, which he did while not being attended.

I'm not arguing Murray's negligence, don't get me wrong. But if the illness you speak of was MJ's addiction, Murray wasn't hired to treat it. In fact, Murray was hired to do just the opposite. Addiction is one of the few, if not the only, illnesses for which there is no cure unless the patient is willing to help himself.

Again, there's no excuse for Murray's negligence. What he should've done was either investigate his patient before signing on, or walk away just as soon as he discovered what the real deal was going to be. But, like many doctors before him, he was more impressed by the money and the name than by the oath he took to Do No Harm.

Where there is demand for something, there will always be supply. It's not always right, just a fact of life. If there were no addicts demanding prescription drugs, there'd be no doctors feeding their addictions. At the end of the day, as adults, we're all responsible for the choices we make. imo

[Imperfect4]

2:00 PM PDT Today August 25, 2009 and every day this week.

Helloooo! I have DirectTV. Scheduling is different among carriers.

Don't make me copy/paste the dang airing schedule. :sneaky:

:laugh:

[Cindylee]

Was Demerol mentioned at all in the list of drugs? Hasn't it been said that MJ was addicted to Demerol? We don't know if that was in his system also, right?

[?WudScoobyDo]

If everyone though him guilty, we would be talking about his sentence. Personally, I want to see him charged with at least manslaughter. His actions alone prove disregard for a human life. And to call Jackson's son in to witness this bull is unreal.

Here is the big difference here... Many want Murray to get charged for his contribution to Jackson's death. I would also love to see a malpractice suit levied against him. He has yet to be charged or to stand trial. I know I am judging him by his own actions and lies that have been told. IF court records show that I have been lied to by the media, then I have my crow pie ready. And believe me I was shocked to read what drugs he had administered to Jackson in the hours prior to his death.

Jackson stood trial, was found NOT GUILTY but yet people did persecute him, even after he was found NOT GUILTY. Look at some of these posts and try to see the absolute hate that some have for the man. And you really believe he didn't know that?

IMO, a big difference when you talk about our constitution.


You know what? This is a GREAT post! Thank you.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I didn't post it Daniel did. Here it is.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-drugs-prescription-polls/

Indeed, Eagleeye..Very telling in all those numbers..many realie MJ was his own worst enemy...but fruition was caused, and created by Dr. Murray..

I have heard comments saying things like Dr. Murray was the "Fall Guy"..That..I dont agree (IMO) for the simle point he should have known better, folowed by his negligent treatment practice...I dont give one hoot what he claims or others for that matter..THAT cocktail given to MJ that night was a highway to DEATH....Conrad was a supposed knowledgeable, revered physician..and he didnt realize mixing those drugs would create issues??? Not to mention not having APPROPRIATE Life saving equipement at bedside???Now that just boggles my mind!!
O2 is only helpful if someone is breathing????..Nevermind..I am ticked at this guy..Would ya guess?...:blush:

LMS

[retiredcop]

You know I love ya more then my luggage, but I think you are on the wrong side with this one doll. Bet ya a cyber beer that Murray is arrested within 2 weeks. Are we on? :thumbsup:

Sure, we're on. Anytime.:biggrin:

[retiredcop]

I didn't post it Daniel did. Here it is.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/25/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-drugs-prescription-polls/

Thanks, Interesting.

[retiredcop]

I'm not arguing Murray's negligence, don't get me wrong. But if the illness you speak of was MJ's addiction, Murray wasn't hired to treat it. In fact, Murray was hired to do just the opposite. Addiction is one of the few, if not the only, illnesses for which there is no cure unless the patient is willing to help himself.

Again, there's no excuse for Murray's negligence. What he should've done was either investigate his patient before signing on, or walk away just as soon as he discovered what the real deal was going to be. But, like many doctors before him, he was more impressed by the money and the name than by the oath he took to Do No Harm.

Where there is demand for something, there will always be supply. It's not always right, just a fact of life. If there were no addicts demanding prescription drugs, there'd be no doctors feeding their addictions. At the end of the day, as adults, we're all responsible for the choices we make. imo

I think Dr Murray should have run the other way as soon as he met him. There is no way Mr Jackson wanted to get off drugs. I think the idea of traveling around to concerts got to him. I also think he was going to try to get him off drugs.

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

Odd, I say the exact same thing about about Michael Jackson. ...well everything except "he likes women" part.

His children deserved a mother, he didn't pay his bills and he didn't feel enough responsibility to his own children either. He certainly couldn't manage his own life.

I was thinking the same thing when I read that post. I agree with you.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Odd, I say the exact same thing about about Michael Jackson. ...well everything except "he likes women" part.

His children deserved a mother, he didn't pay his bills and he didn't feel enough responsibility to his own children either. He certainly couldn't manage his own life.


The kids have a mother, it is a necessity to their existence. MJ liked women, men and children, all shades and sizes. As far as his sexual preference, neither you nor I were in a position to make any determination, not to mention it was no one's business but his own. But most important, is MJ did not take an oath to "do no harm". Dr. Murray took that oath and violated it when he allowed his patient to die.

imo...of course.

[Eagleeye]

Helloooo! I have DirectTV. Scheduling is different among carriers.

Don't make me copy/paste the dang airing schedule. :sneaky:

:laugh:

If you did it would take a whole page. Anyway on the TVGN website I found it said that it would be aired at 2:00pm PDT every day this week and dang it I missed it today because I got company. I hate when my friends disrupt my time on the blog. They have no consideration. :laugh:

[Cindylee]

If you did it would take a whole page. Anyway on the TVGN website I found it said that it would be aired at 2:00pm PDT every day this week and dang it I missed it today because I got company. I hate when my friends disrupt my time on the blog. They have no consideration. :laugh:

Make sure you look closely at the title. There are three MJ programs that they are airing. I don't know the titles for sure, but one is something about The Faces of MJ. And one is about the comparisons of MJ and Elvis. And the third one is MJ: His Final Days.

[Eagleeye]

Indeed, Eagleeye..Very telling in all those numbers..many realie MJ was his own worst enemy...but fruition was caused, and created by Dr. Murray..

I have heard comments saying things like Dr. Murray was the "Fall Guy"..That..I dont agree (IMO) for the simle point he should have known better, folowed by his negligent treatment practice...I dont give one hoot what he claims or others for that matter..THAT cocktail given to MJ that night was a highway to DEATH....Conrad was a supposed knowledgeable, revered physician..and he didnt realize mixing those drugs would create issues??? Not to mention not having APPROPRIATE Life saving equipement at bedside???Now that just boggles my mind!!
O2 is only helpful if someone is breathing????..Nevermind..I am ticked at this guy..Would ya guess?...:blush:

LMS

Would ya guess that I agree with ya. :thumbup:

[september]

Well poor Michael won't be suffering from insomnia anymore. Michael always got what he wanted.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Well poor Michael won't be suffering from insomnia anymore. Michael always got what he wanted.

Sleep and death are not the same thing. With sleep you wake up.

[sallemae]

What about all of the people addicted to sleep meds, you think they're addicted because they want to get high or because they can't sleep without them? In many cases, when a user becomes habituated to a drug, he no longer gets a buzz, he simply needs the chemical to feel normal....


Drug and Alcohol Information
Addictive Drugs - Legal Drugs

Drugs (such as sedatives and tranquilizers) are available by prescription and are considered safe for medical purposes, but they are highly addictive, even at prescribed dosages.

Tranquilizers
Tranquilizers are drugs used to treat anxiety or problems with sleep. They have a calming effect by depressing the nervous system in a way similar to alcohol. The most common forms of minor tranquilizers prescribed are the benzodiazepines. These include Xanax, Ativan, Valium, and Librium. Major tranquilizers such as Haldol, Navane, Thorazine, Mellaril are called "anti-psychotics". They are generally used to treat symptoms of paranoia, psychosis, hallucinations or delusions. Tranquilizers are frequently abused because of their ability to reduce anxiety. Tolerance for these types of drug develops rapidly,as more and more of the drug is needed to be effective.

Sedatives
Like alcohol and tranquilizers, sedatives depress the nervous system. They have a calming effect and help induce sleep. Of the four groups of sedatives, barbiturates are the most commonly abused and the most addictive. Commonly abused barbiturates are Nembutal, Seconal, and Amytal. The other three groups of sedatives are benzodiazepines, barbiturate-like sedatives, and other sedatives. Benzodiazepines, which are prescribed as sleep medications, include Restoril, Dalmane, and Halcion. Barbiturate-like sedatives include Placidyl, Miltown, Doriden, Noludar, and Quaaludes. Other sedatives prescribed as sleep medications include Ambien and Sonata. Desyrel, an older antidepressant, is also prescribed as a sleep medication.

http://www.egetgoing.com/drug_addiction/legal_drugs.asp

What drug addict get a buzz to go to sleep? I understand MJ being referred to a drug addict if he had to have the sleep aids, but sleeping is not a buzz. Sleeping is a buzz kill!

[?WudScoobyDo]

snipped

I don't know about you...but when person decides to become a parent to three children, it shouldn't be considered lightly. IMO The unspoken moral oath when becoming a parent far surpasses some oath a doctor takes. imo


I understand this is your opinion, mine is that Michael Jackson was a wonderful father. I tend to agree with the opinion of his daughter over yours. According to her, he was the best Daddy in the world.

[retiredcop]

This is what I found out:

1 g
100 ML
1000 mg

These are the equations. All are the same.

25 mg is an extremely low dose in my opinion. How could this be considered a lethal dose? This was done with an IV and not a one shot deal.

I don't have the list of the other drugs given him right here, but that would depend on the strength of the pill or shot and the amount of time between them, no? Actually we haven't see the tox report so we don't know for sure what was in his system. I'm with LaundryQueen that there may be demoral in his system. He wasn't sleeping so he could have taken something else himself.

in my opinionn

[retiredcop]

I understand this is your opinion, mine is that Michael Jackson was a wonderful father. I tend to agree with the opinion of his daughter over yours. According to her, he was the best Daddy in the world.

She is a child. Children have been known to say very good things about very bad parents.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

This is what I found out:

1 g
100 ML
1000 mg

These are the equations. All are the same.

25 mg is an extremely low dose in my opinion. How could this be considered a lethal dose? This was done with an IV and not a one shot deal.

I don't have the list of the other drugs given him right here, but that would depend on the strength of the pill or shot and the amount of time between them, no? Actually we haven't see the tox report so we don't know for sure what was in his system. I'm with LaundryQueen that there may be demoral in his system. He wasn't sleeping so he could have taken something else himself.

in my opinionn


According to the anesthesiologist on tv last night, you are correct that 25mg is a low dose, and thats why she believed there was no way that Dr. Murray was being truthful about the dosage, in that it had to have been a much greater dosage, to have killed a person.

Considering the massive amout of drugs, Murray admitted to having administered, I don't think MJ could have done anything on his own, including breathing.

imo...of course.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Well poor Michael won't be suffering from insomnia anymore. Michael always got what he wanted.

Yep!..He sure did..He got that "Eternal Sleep"..and I have to let those that may wonder..MJ went to sleep..never felt a thing..so did not suffer at all!!/// I kinda think that is how DP are carried out..but that is beside the point..Since MJ wasnt wishing to DIE..only wanted sleep, and this nutbar of a pshysician allowed himself to give such a cocktail without backup of medical intervention was ENTIRELY HIS FAULT//IF MJ had a terminal illness there would be a pause to wonder...maybe????..but in this case case, Dr. Murray took up that torch many others carried over the years..and dropped the "Proverbial BALL"...He has to be held accountable..as what he did was not a slip up..or unknowing ..yet he will not doubt claim ingnorance (LOL)..I also believe there may be others who will be held accountable as well..just dont know at what level..(Dr. Klein is the biggest enabler over 25 years!!/IMO)

His (CM) claims (via his lawyer) he didnt give MJ anything that should kill him????I have to ask?..what the heck did he know about the combining drugs..synagergic effects..at over $200.00/hr 24/7 he SHOULD have known..

LMS:cursing:

[retiredcop]

According to the anesthesiologist on tv last night, you are correct that 25mg is a low dose, and thats why she believed there was no way that Dr. Murray was being truthful about the dosage, in that it had to have been a much greater dosage, to have killed a person.

Considering the massive amout of drugs, Murray admitted to having administered, I don't think MJ could have done anything on his own, including breathing.

imo...of course.

I don't think he lied about the dose knowing full well a tox screening was gong to be done. What massive amount of drugs? Are you kidding or what? Wasn't it three other low dose drugs? Mr Jackson couldn't sleep.. He stayed awake all night until he got the Diprivan. That shows you how much of an addict he really was. He needed more than it would take to knock an elephant out with the tolerance he built up over the years. That includes his tolerance to Diprivan too.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

I don't think he lied about the dose knowing full well a tox screening was gong to be done. What massive amount of drugs? Are you kidding or what? Wasn't it three other low dose drugs? Mr Jackson couldn't sleep.. He stayed awake all night until he got the Diprivan. That shows you how much of an addict he really was. He needed more than it would take to knock an elephant out with the tolerance he built up over the years. That includes his tolerance to Diprivan too.

in my opinion

I think he was depending on what he may have learned in his inner circle and thought the diprivan wouldn't be found during the autopsy so he made self serving statements.

What he didn't figure on is the Coroner not only found the diprivan when he did the autopsy but he found it to be a lethal amount.

A licensed anesthesiologist just now on HLN said this case is both malpractice and criminal. He said that Murray was not board certified and it showed because no competent doctor would have given this cocktail and compound it with diprivan... to a patient and he also said it was obvious that Murray knew he was an addict.

imo

[Eagleeye]

Make sure you look closely at the title. There are three MJ programs that they are airing. I don't know the titles for sure, but one is something about The Faces of MJ. And one is about the comparisons of MJ and Elvis. And the third one is MJ: His Final Days.

Cin, I may be really old but I still have 20/20 vision. Michael Jackson/His Final Days. Right? :smile:

[Cindylee]

Cin, I may be really old but I still have 20/20 vision. Michael Jackson/His Final Days. Right? :smile:

Hahahaha. I well I must be older and don't have such good eyesite. I thought I tivo'd the right one last night and got the Elvis one. BUT, it said I was taping the right one. BUT, I just got this tivo thing, so I might have messed up. Very possible. :laugh: