8/24 -8/25 - MJ's death has been ruled as a homicide

[kattitude]

Coroner Found Lethal Levels of Propofol in Michael Jackson's Body (http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-jackson-death-investigation,0,3373962.story)

[kattitude]

Los Angeles, CA—According to a Los Angeles, California law enforcement official, the Los Angeles County Coroner has ruled Michael Jackson’s death a homicide.

Los Angeles County Coroner Rules Michael Jackson’s Death A Homicide/ (http://www2.wjbf.com/jbf/news/national/article/los_angeles_county_coroner_rules_michael_jacksons_ death_a_homicide/18752/)

[ABC]

Okay, I will eat Crow. I am totally surprised at finding this drug in MJ's body and never thought any one would be stupid enough to use this drug in a home setting.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Okay, I will eat Crow. I am totally surprised at finding this drug in MJ's body and never thought any one would be stupid enough to use this drug in a home setting.


At least you won't be eating alone.

[kattitude]

Okay, I will eat Crow. I am totally surprised at finding this drug in MJ's body and never thought any one would be stupid enough to use this drug in a home setting.

Well you would think that, but these days..anymore...you never know.
People are crazy!

[retiredcop]

Okay, I will eat Crow. I am totally surprised at finding this drug in MJ's body and never thought any one would be stupid enough to use this drug in a home setting.

Not yet. We haven't seen the autopsy report and there is no official word from the coroner's office, the DA's office, or the police. The media is running wild as usual.

in my opinion

[Ahlou]

At least you won't be eating alone.

I had posted the timeline of drugs given on your Breaking News thread.

1:30 a.m. given valium
2 a.m. given larazepam intravenously
3 a. m adminsterred midazolam
7hours 40 minutes later
10:40 a.m. adminstered propofol

Seems to me Michael got at least 7 hours sleep before the last. That's a lots of medicine given by any doctor.

[?WudScoobyDo]

I posted the timeline of drugs given on your Breaking News thread.


I'm surprised it didn't exceed the allowable band width space.

[Ahlou]

I'm surprised it didn't exceed the allowable band width space.
I think one can edit within 5 minutes.

[?WudScoobyDo]

I had posted the timeline of drugs given on your Breaking News thread.

1:30 a.m. given valium
2 a.m. given larazepam intravenously
3 a. m adminsterred midazolam
7hours 40 minutes later
10:40 a.m. adminstered propofol

Seems to me Michael got at least 7 hours sleep before the last. That's a lots of medicine given by any doctor.

Especially a doctor who's attorney claimed he didn't give him any drugs that should have killed him. Thank God this Doctor will never be allowed to harm another victim again.

[court~critic1®]

Gee, I wonder just whom they will accuse of holding a gun to mjs' head and told him he had to take all these drugs? roflmao!!!

Murder.......:laugh:barf

[sunstar]

HLN is reporting on MJ now.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Gee, I wonder just whom they will accuse of holding a gun to mjs' head and told him he had to take all these drugs? roflmao!!!

Murder.......:laugh:barf


Whats so funny about a homicide that left three children without a father?

[sunstar]

Especially a doctor who's attorney claimed he didn't give him any drugs that should have killed him. Thank God this Doctor will never be allowed to harm another victim again.

Another interesting part is after starting the propofol he went to the bathroom and make phone calls ~ clearly leaving MJ unattended. :sad: MOO

[Firehead11]

If this report is true since it is an "unknown source", holy cow dung. I never expected that many drugs to be administered to Jackson by a DOCTOR.

I am just dumb founded.

[?WudScoobyDo]

CBS News has learned the affidavit says the following:

• "I have reason to believe and do believe that evidence of the crime of manslaughter" was found in Murray’s storage facility.
• Murray says he administered "several drugs to Jackson in the early morning hours" and at 11am, Jackson stopped breathing.
• "toxicology analysis showed that MJ had lethal levels of Propofol in his blood"
• Murray administered Propofol and Lidocaine intravenously in early morning hours of 6/25/09


And the 9-1-1 call was made at 12:22. What happened for the one hour and 22 minutes?

[Nic99]

CBS News has learned the affidavit says the following:

• "I have reason to believe and do believe that evidence of the crime of manslaughter" was found in Murray’s storage facility.
• Murray says he administered "several drugs to Jackson in the early morning hours" and at 11am, Jackson stopped breathing.
• "toxicology analysis showed that MJ had lethal levels of Propofol in his blood"
• Murray administered Propofol and Lidocaine intravenously in early morning hours of 6/25/09


And the 9-1-1 call was made at 12:22. What happened for the one hour and 22 minutes?

Blind panic I would imagine

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I had posted the timeline of drugs given on your Breaking News thread.

1:30 a.m. given valium
2 a.m. given larazepam intravenously
3 a. m adminsterred midazolam
7hours 40 minutes later
10:40 a.m. adminstered propofol

Seems to me Michael got at least 7 hours sleep before the last. That's a lots of medicine given by any doctor.

The underlined and bolded portion..I do not believe for one minute...IF MJ had slept from 130-1040AM..why need to give a short dosing of Diprivan..which only lasts short period...I think this timeline was given by Dr. Murray..to explain the delay of calling 911..He called his ofice in Texas..to clean out Storage..920 AM.....Sorry..I cant swollow this...I wonder what the levels of lorazepam was,and valium..and midazalom..just a side note..no dosing of those just mentioned drugs..

There were a couple of pills found in his stomach...I find that rather suspicious that pils he took 7++ hours earlier were still in his stomach??

LMS

[sunstar]

If this report is true since it is an "unknown source", holy cow dung. I never expected that many drugs to be administered to Jackson by a DOCTOR.

I am just dumb founded.

Randi Kaye, CNN reporter, is on HLN right now and she was just reading off an AP report citing a source from the Coroner's office. I too am shocked that the Dr. would administer all those sedatives and then the propofol. From what I'm hearing it's not like MJ took pills and then Dr. M unknowingly gave the anesthesia ~ as if that wouldn't be bad enough. :scared: MOO

[retiredcop]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6808546.ece

snipped

A law enforcement official in Los Angeles confirmed this evening that a ruling from the coroner’s office has deemed Jackson’s death to be a homicide.
--------------------------------------------
There is no information from the cororner's office, the DA, or the police. This is a single source not named.

HLN reporting they contacted the LAPD who said this information did not come from them. This has not been confirmed that it is ruled a homicide.

in my opinion

[sunstar]

The underlined and bolded portion..I do not believe for one minute...IF MJ had slept from 130-1040AM..why need to give a short dosing of Diprivan..which only lasts short period...I think this timeline was given by Dr. Murray..to explain the delay of calling 911..He called his ofice in Texas..to clean out Storage..920 AM.....Sorry..I cant swollow this...I wonder what the levels of lorazepam was,and valium..and midazalom..just a side note..no dosing of those just mentioned drugs..

There were a couple of pills found in his stomach...I find that rather suspicious that pils he took 7++ hours earlier were still in his stomach??

LMS

I think the timeline is slightly "off" too for starting propofol, or maybe he gave him more sedatives, closer to administering propofol, that he didn't mention? :shrug: MOO

[Justice4all]

HLN is reporting on MJ now.

It's amazing the amount of drugs he gave MJ

[retiredcop]

Gee, I wonder just whom they will accuse of holding a gun to mjs' head and told him he had to take all these drugs? roflmao!!!

Murder.......:laugh:barf

I agree with you 100%. Have to have a fall guy I guess. Conviction if charged not likely.

There is no confirmation from the coroner's office, the DAs office, or police this is true anyway.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

It's amazing the amount of drugs he gave MJ

Time was passing between the medication and Mr Jackson wasn't sleeping so he gave him Diprivan and Mr Jackson was asking for it.

It's not how many pills but how strong are they and how much time elapsed between doses.

in my opinion

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I think the timeline is slightly "off" too for starting propofol, or maybe he gave him more sedatives, closer to administering propofol, that he didn't mention? :shrug: MOO

Oh..BTW..Midazolam is better know to the public as versed..yet another medication used during induction of aneasthesia...I have a link here which pretty well covers it..Man..Murray was even more incompetent than I thought....The timeline for the drugs listed...just dont make sense..Also Lorazepam IV solution has to be maintained in cold chain..( between 2-8 degrees Celcius)..wonder where the doctor kept that hidden away..wonder if chef noticed that vial in her fridge??Wonder if LE found some in their searches?..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midazolam



LMS

[Firehead11]

I, for one, am going to use my iggy button. I wish to discuss this new report and not fight over how great that doctor is.

[ABC]

Not yet. We haven't seen the autopsy report and there is no official word from the coroner's office, the DA's office, or the police. The media is running wild as usual.

in my opinion
WOW, thanks for the information. Will hold Crow order till verification from the authorities. Would the DA not indicit Dr Murray long before this if that were true and not wait till two months after the event? Surely, the Coroner would notify the cops. Do you think?

[?WudScoobyDo]

Blind panic I would imagine

Or conscience cover up.

[cantstandnuts]

I agree with you 100%. Have to have a fall guy I guess. Conviction if charged not likely.

There is no confirmation from the coroner's office, the DAs office, or police this is true anyway.

in my opinion

This doctor should fall, IMO if it's all proven true. These aren't prescription opiates or benzodiazepines that people get on a routine basis to abuse, these are drugs used in anesthesia and they have absolutely no business being used anywhere else...period. When you have surgery, it is explained to you that you could DIE from the use of these same drugs, Versed and Propofol. Only an incredible idiot would ever administer them for insomnia. Murray, IMO, should not ever prescribe again.

[ABC]

This doctor should fall, IMO if it's all proven true. These aren't prescription opiates or benzodiazepines that people get on a routine basis to abuse, these are drugs used in anesthesia and they have absolutely no business being used anywhere else...period. When you have surgery, it is explained to you that you could DIE from the use of these same drugs, Versed and Propofol. Only an incredible idiot would ever administer them for insomnia. Murray, IMO, should not ever prescribe again.
But is it illegal for a Doctor to prescribe these drugs? Does a Doc need a special license? I know it is stupid for home use but is it illegal or malpractice?

[Lyndawitha"Y]

WOW, thanks for the information. Will hold Crow order till verification from the authorities. Would the DA not indicit Dr Murray long before this if that were true and not wait till two months after the event? Surely, the Coroner would notify the cops. Do you think?

A little birdie whispered in my ear...I think the "Cops" have known for a long while..how else could they obtain their search warrants for houses, pharmacies and offices??..They have to be based on something..not speculations...Also, the delay was to allow them (Cops) to obtain proof of wrong doings..who did what and when??...which is a wise move if one is to arrest somebody..

LMS

[?WudScoobyDo]

WOW, thanks for the information. Will hold Crow order till verification from the authorities. Would the DA not indicit Dr Murray long before this if that were true and not wait till two months after the event? Surely, the Coroner would notify the cops. Do you think?


I'm sure the police are quite aware of the coroner report.

[CANDYKISSES]

Whats so funny about a homicide that left three children without a father?

I'm unable to think of anything to justify such an inappropriate remark with a laughing icon no less, but that's JMO. :unsure:

[sunstar]

Oh..BTW..Midazolam is better know to the public as versed..yet another medication used during induction of aneasthesia...I have a link here which pretty well covers it..Man..Murray was even more incompetent than I thought....The timeline for the drugs listed...just dont make sense..Also Lorazepam IV solution has to be maintained in cold chain..( between 2-8 degrees Celcius)..wonder where the doctor kept that hidden away..wonder if chef noticed that vial in her fridge??Wonder if LE found some in their searches?..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midazolam



LMS
Thanks for the additional info about the drugs! :read:

[?WudScoobyDo]

But is it illegal for a Doctor to prescribe these drugs? Does a Doc need a special license? I know it is stupid for home use but is it illegal or malpractice?

Its illegal to use it in a reckless manner and thereby causing the death of the victim.

[?WudScoobyDo]

I'm unable to think of anything to justify such an inappropriate remark with a laughing icon no less, but that's JMO. :unsure:

There is no justification. Its inhumane period.

imo...of course

[sunstar]

I'm sure the police are quite aware of the coroner report.

I agree. There has to be something they based their search warrant applications on. And what's in the report today supposedly came directly from what Dr. M told LE. MOO

[ABC]

I'm sure the police are quite aware of the coroner report.
Then why is the Doctor not in jail, arrested in the last two months or even now if homicide is on the table? Just asking!!!

[?WudScoobyDo]

Why was the Doctor not in jail, arrested in the last two months or even now if homicide is on the table? Just asking!!!


I guess its his elite status.

[GentleBreeze]

I'm sure the police are quite aware of the coroner report.

You bet they are and the Coroner signed off on the death investigation around August 11, 2009.

imo

[ABC]

Its illegal to use it in a reckless manner and thereby causing the death of the victim.

Is that homicide or malpractice? Can they place the stuff in the Doc's hands? Could MJ not taken it himself without any help?

[Firehead11]

Why was the Doctor not in jail, arrested in the last two months or even now if homicide is on the table? Just asking!!!

I would say, the investigation and what they could find out. Where did the drug come from, who purchased it etc...Don't forget, they needed the results back from tox tests first. That only happened a few weeks ago. It is one thing for the doctor to say these drugs were given to Jackson by him, another thing to have the proof in writing. Also since the propofol was given 7 hours later after Jackson must have slept, what is the reason for it? Why the delay about calling 911. so many questions.

[Firehead11]

Is that homicide or malpractice? Can they place the stuff in the Doc's hands? Could MJ not taken it himself without any help?

According to the reports, Murray told the police he gave him the drugs.

[sunstar]

According to the reports, Murray told the police he gave him the drugs.

And according to this Search Warrant issued in Harris Co., Texas ~

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf

[GentleBreeze]

Is that homicide or malpractice? Can they place the stuff in the Doc's hands? Could MJ not taken it himself without any help?

I think Murray's own words about the actions he took and when shows it is all on his watch.

Homicide, imo. He was even more reckless and negligent than I first thought.

I am sure a malpractice suit will follow also.

imo

[?WudScoobyDo]

Is that homicide or malpractice? Can they place the stuff in the Doc's hands? Could MJ not taken it himself without any help?


Its homicide in a criminal case, and malpractice in a civil case. Its both.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I guess its his elite status.

You got that right...you know all the outrages of rush to judgement ..not to mention it is always helpful to have evidence..since MJ's drug history was so convoluted..they had to be sure there arent others involved...
Having said that, you have to know if it was a regular person, or drug dealing rom the streets..they would be in jail..then investigated...It's somethin that unfortunately goes on ....frustrating...we also have to remember that Murray had a lawyer in tow even before he gave his statement to Police...creates some barriers / obsticles / and hoops to jump thru..

LMS

[Unperson1984]

Another interesting part is after starting the propofol he went to the bathroom and make phone calls ~ clearly leaving MJ unattended. :sad: MOO

IIRC, 47 minutes of phone calls.

[BOZGAL2]

That timeline of the drug administering is as SCREWY AS DR M IS.
WHAT A QUACK :scared: JMO

And this man graduated from Medical School? :scared: JMO

[sunstar]

I think Murray's own words about the actions he took and when shows it is all on his watch.

Homicide, imo. He was even more reckless and negligent than I first thought.

I am sure a malpractice suit will follow also.

imo
(bolding mine)

Thank you for the reminder ~ "Murray's own words"! :smile:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

He did not have a DEA number for CA. So, yeah, I think him buying it in NV and transporting it to CA for use is illegal.

Ya know.I am more upset with Conrad Murray's behavior, and treatment practice ...the other charges are only gravy to me...I do hope his conduct ( Klein too for that matter)..get exposed and maybe put the brakes on any physician's desire to cross the line...Just because you know something, doesnt make it a valid excuse to do it inappropriately! IF he wasnt a physician..the culpibility wouldnt be so bad (in my eyes)..but his license gives him powers but with those powers comes obligations to practice within the guidelines..and oath you take!!

LMS

[sunstar]

If it is true about him having the boy involved in the CPR,
I hope his head is handed to him on a platter. :cursing:

That part is very bothersome to me too. And why delay calling 911? Well, I think we know the answer. :mad: MOO

[?WudScoobyDo]

IIRC, 47 minutes of phone calls.


It says his medical certificate expired last year. What does that mean?

[Lyndawitha"Y]

It says his medical certificate expired last year. What does that mean?

Im not the linkmyster of MJ's thread..but I think you are referring to his losing his accreditation as a "Cardioligist Specialist"..not losing his license to practice medicine....If you go back to the first half dozen thread..that point was addressed..just didnt keep the links to that..

LMS

[CANDYKISSES]

sounds like assisted suicide to me - jmho

I think it's going to be a manslaughter charge, and pretty soon too. :sneaky:JMO

[retiredcop]

Im not the linkmyster of MJ's thread..but I think you are referring to his losing his accreditation as a "Cardioligist Specialist"..not losing his license to practice medicine....If you go back to the first half dozen thread..that point was addressed..just didnt keep the links to that..

LMS

Is 25 mg of Diprivan considered high or lethal like is being reported on the news?

in my opinion

[daniel green]

I had posted the timeline of drugs given on your Breaking News thread.

1:30 a.m. given valium
2 a.m. given larazepam intravenously
3 a. m adminsterred midazolam
7hours 40 minutes later
10:40 a.m. adminstered propofol

Seems to me Michael got at least 7 hours sleep before the last. That's a lots of medicine given by any doctor.

GOOD GOLLY MISS MOLLY!!!:scared::scared::scared:


Versed, too.
What an amazing combination of drugs.

[Firehead11]

sounds like assisted suicide to me - jmho

You are kidding right?

OMG, according to one report Murray was trying to get him off the prescription drugs, he succeeded.

[barskin&co.]

Gee, I wonder just whom they will accuse of holding a gun to mjs' head and told him he had to take all these drugs? roflmao!!!

Murder.......:laugh:barf

The Coroner's finding is homicide, not murder. That can mean manslaughter, as well. And, yes, MJ asked his doctors for these strong drugs, but, it can still be a criminal act for a doctor to give them to him.

[retiredcop]

Any level is too high for your bedroom with no
monitoring devices.

That's not what I asked.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

sounds like assisted suicide to me - jmho


Oddly enough, there is not one mention of assisted suicide in the warrant. But manslaughter was mentioned quite a few times.

[retiredcop]

The Coroner's finding is homicide, not murder. That can mean manslaughter, as well. And, yes, MJ asked his doctors for these strong drugs, but, it can still be a criminal act for a doctor to give them to him.

Homicide ruling covers murder and manslaughter.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

Is 25 mg of Diprivan considered high or lethal like is being reported on the news?

in my opinion

A dead body indicates it was probably lethal.

[Firehead11]

Is 25 mg of Diprivan considered high or lethal like is being reported on the news?

in my opinion

Induction of anesthesia with DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion is frequently associated with apnea in both adults and pediatric patients. In adult patients who received DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion (2 to 2.5 mg/kg), apnea lasted less than 30 seconds in 7% of patients, 30-60 seconds in 24% of patients, and more than 60 seconds in 12% of patients. In pediatric patients from birth through 16 years of age assessable for apnea who received bolus doses of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion (1 to 3.6 mg/kg), apnea lasted less than 30 seconds in 12% of patients, 30-60 seconds in 10% of patients, and more than 60 seconds in 5% of patients.



Adults: Propofol clearance ranges from 23-50 mL/kg/min (1.6 to 3.4 L/min in 70 kg adults). It is chiefly eliminated by hepatic conjugation to inactive metabolites which are excreted by the kidney. A glucuronide conjugate accounts for about 50% of the administered dose. Propofol has a steady state volume of distribution (10-day infusion) approaching 60 L/kg in healthy adults. A difference in pharmacokinetics due to gender has not been observed. The terminal half-life of propofol after a 10-day infusion is 1 to 3 days.

http://www.rxlist.com/diprivan-drug.htm#cp

Lynda !!! Help !!

[VC2]

GOOD GOLLY MISS MOLLY!!!:scared::scared::scared:


Versed, too.
What an amazing combination of drugs.

thing is, the first 3 probably were not at an issue at all. 7 hours between them and the diprivan. So even if you discount those (as far as his death goes) he still gave a lethal dose of diprivan and left the room.

That is where it comes down to homicide. Its not like he just gave him the first three which i think he might have had an argument that it was not lethal per se.

[Ahlou]

GOOD GOLLY MISS MOLLY!!!:scared::scared::scared:

Versed, too.
What an amazing combination of drugs.
I know very little about any of the medications but thought 7 hours sleep is fairly good - heck I'm real happy when I get 7 hours. Then I thought why in the heck would a doctor give that much medication in that time.

[retiredcop]

A dead body indicates it was probably lethal.

I'm just trying to figure out about the meds before going off half cocked like you.:biggrin:

in my opinion

[daniel green]

Any level is too high for your bedroom with no
monitoring devices.

It says right on that warrant that Dr Murray had a pulse ox machine and was monitoring MJ correctly.

[daniel green]

thing is, the first 3 probably were not at an issue at all. snipped.

Hey, VC--good to see you.

Versed at home? :confused:

[Firehead11]

-------------

Yep. A while back on one of the talk shows, a friend of MJ (i cant remember his name) said that MJ would carry a suicide note in his pocket. imo

Have a link?

Apparently there was no note in the pocket or around the house. The doctor admits he gave Jackson all of those drugs. Are you now implying that Jackson begged for enough drugs to kill himself?

[retiredcop]

thing is, the first 3 probably were not at an issue at all. 7 hours between them and the diprivan. So even if you discount those (as far as his death goes) he still gave a lethal dose of diprivan and left the room.

That is where it comes down to homicide. Its not like he just gave him the first three which i think he might have had an argument that it was not lethal per se.

I don't think the first three matter because of time and dosage. But is 25 mg of Diprivan lethal? News is going nuts and we don't even have confirmation this is a homicide yet. I thought he would have more drugs in him than this.

in my opinion

[?WudScoobyDo]

It says right on that warrant that Dr Murray had a pulse ox machine and was monitoring MJ correctly.


It also says right on the warrant, probable cause to obtain evidence of the crime of manslaughter.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Is 25 mg of Diprivan considered high or lethal like is being reported on the news?

in my opinion

I wouldnt completely swallow some of the detailing given my Murray..but as to your question~~ here is what is outlined as proper dosing..


http://www.rxlist.com/diprivan-drug.htm


Induction of General Anesthesia
Adult Patients: Most adult patients under 55 years of age and classified as ASA-PS I or II require 2 to 2.5 mg/kg of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion for induction when unpremedicated or when premedicated with oral benzodiazepines or intramuscular opioids. For induction, DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion should be titrated (approximately 40 mg every 10 seconds) against the response of the patient until the clinical signs show the onset of anesthesia. As with other sedative-hypnotic agents, the amount of intravenous opioid and/or benzodiazepine premedication will influence the response of the patient to an induction dose of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion.

Elderly, Debilitated, or ASA-PS III or IV Patients: It is important to be familiar and experienced with the intravenous use of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion before treating elderly, debilitated, or ASA-PS III or IV patients. Due to the reduced clearance and higher blood concentrations, most of these patients require approximately 1 to 1.5 mg/kg (approximately 20 mg every 10 seconds) of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion for induction of anesthesia according to their condition and responses. A rapid bolus should not be used, as this will increase the likelihood of undesirable cardiorespiratory depression including hypotension, apnea, airway obstruction, and/or oxygen desaturation (See DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION).

Ive bolded and highlighted just some huge issues tha Murray obviouslu didnt consider...Lorazepam is a benzo as is Versed ...NOT recommended..

You have to be reminded..that this is all surrounding useage when all support systems aka..ET tubes, Ambu Bag, Cardiac Monitor, O2Sat. Monitor MUST be at bedside..to intervene in adverse/life threatening responses...NONE of these items were in the MJ home..much less at his bedside!!

Hope that helps..

LMS

[daniel green]

I've been working for the last few hrs and just now seeing the news.

I gather this is not the tox report but what Dr M himself said, right? What is the warrant to search his office and home?

[?WudScoobyDo]

-------------

Yep. A while back on one of the talk shows, a friend of MJ (i cant remember his name) said that MJ would carry a suicide note in his pocket. imo


Apparently they didn't find the note, so they are ruling it a homicide.
:blink:

[retiredcop]

Induction of anesthesia with DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion is frequently associated with apnea in both adults and pediatric patients. In adult patients who received DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion (2 to 2.5 mg/kg), apnea lasted less than 30 seconds in 7% of patients, 30-60 seconds in 24% of patients, and more than 60 seconds in 12% of patients. In pediatric patients from birth through 16 years of age assessable for apnea who received bolus doses of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion (1 to 3.6 mg/kg), apnea lasted less than 30 seconds in 12% of patients, 30-60 seconds in 10% of patients, and more than 60 seconds in 5% of patients.



Adults: Propofol clearance ranges from 23-50 mL/kg/min (1.6 to 3.4 L/min in 70 kg adults). It is chiefly eliminated by hepatic conjugation to inactive metabolites which are excreted by the kidney. A glucuronide conjugate accounts for about 50% of the administered dose. Propofol has a steady state volume of distribution (10-day infusion) approaching 60 L/kg in healthy adults. A difference in pharmacokinetics due to gender has not been observed. The terminal half-life of propofol after a 10-day infusion is 1 to 3 days.

http://www.rxlist.com/diprivan-drug.htm#cp

Lynda !!! Help !!

So to me it looks like 25 mg was on the low side of dosage. I might not be reading this right though.

in my opinion

[VC2]

looks like consciousness of guilt too. In the warrant he told both the paramedics and the ER only about the lorazepam or am i reading that wrong? on page 8

[?WudScoobyDo]

I'm just trying to figure out about the meds before going off half cocked like you.:biggrin:

in my opinion


Good luck in that endeavor.

[daniel green]

Oh..BTW..Midazolam is better know to the public as versed..yet another medication used during induction of aneasthesia snipped

Just like it was found at NeverLand in 2003--a vial of Versed.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Induction of anesthesia with DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion is frequently associated with apnea in both adults and pediatric patients. In adult patients who received DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion (2 to 2.5 mg/kg), apnea lasted less than 30 seconds in 7% of patients, 30-60 seconds in 24% of patients, and more than 60 seconds in 12% of patients. In pediatric patients from birth through 16 years of age assessable for apnea who received bolus doses of DIPRIVAN Injectable Emulsion (1 to 3.6 mg/kg), apnea lasted less than 30 seconds in 12% of patients, 30-60 seconds in 10% of patients, and more than 60 seconds in 5% of patients.



Adults: Propofol clearance ranges from 23-50 mL/kg/min (1.6 to 3.4 L/min in 70 kg adults). It is chiefly eliminated by hepatic conjugation to inactive metabolites which are excreted by the kidney. A glucuronide conjugate accounts for about 50% of the administered dose. Propofol has a steady state volume of distribution (10-day infusion) approaching 60 L/kg in healthy adults. A difference in pharmacokinetics due to gender has not been observed. The terminal half-life of propofol after a 10-day infusion is 1 to 3 days.

http://www.rxlist.com/diprivan-drug.htm#cp

Lynda !!! Help !!

I used same link..and just added my usual highlighting...LOL..I dont pretend to be an aneasthiologist...but nowhere in the monograph is there any description for giving a quick shot of Diprivan..not part of any prtocol for administrations that I could tell..Unless it is done just prior to induction of aneasthesia..

LMS:wink:

[retiredcop]

Apparently they didn't find the note, so they are ruling it a homicide.
:blink:

Not official yet. Another unknown police source.:wink:

in my opinion

[VC2]

So to me it looks like 25 mg was on the low side of dosage. I might not be reading this right though.

in my opinion

page 8 says he gave 50 mg diluted with lidocaine as a regular dose according to Murray and only 25 the day of his death..uh?

[?WudScoobyDo]

-----------

I have said from day one that i believe that MJ wanted to die.
and no, i dont have a link.......it may have been on LKL. I know i'm not the only one who heard it. imo

Actually it is in the book written by Ian Halperin. He believed the same thing. But evidently the evidence doesn't support that theory.

[retiredcop]

I used same link..and just added my usual highlighting...LOL..I dont pretend to be an aneasthiologist...but nowhere in the monograph is there any description for giving a quick shot of Diprivan..not part of any prtocol for administrations that I could tell..Unless it is done just prior to induction of aneasthesia..

LMS:wink:

How do we know it was a quick shot and not a drip?

in my opinion

[daniel green]

I used same link..and just added my usual highlighting...LOL..I dont pretend to be an aneasthiologist...but nowhere in the monograph is there any description for giving a quick shot of Diprivan..not part of any prtocol for administrations that I could tell..Unless it is done just prior to induction of aneasthesia..

LMS:wink:

According to Dr M--and that's all we know, right, what Murray told police and is that warrant, or am I missing something?--he didn't push the diprivan, he gave it in IV drip.

[?WudScoobyDo]

looks like consciousness of guilt too. In the warrant he told both the paramedics and the ER only about the lorazepam or am i reading that wrong? on page 8


No, you are not reading it wrong. He deliberately mislead the EMT's. Had Michael not already been dead, it could have made the difference whether or not he could have been saved.

[retiredcop]

page 8 says he gave 50 mg diluted with lidocaine

Do you have a link to the search warrant? I can't find it. So now I wonder if it was a drip, shot, or what? I just wonder if this is a high or low dosage.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

page 8 says he gave 50 mg diluted with lidocaine as a regular dose according to Murray and only 25 the day of his death..uh?

Lemme read the warrant carefully, VC. Pls tell me if this is all we know so far? The warrant does state that the tox report shows lethal levels of diprivan.

[GentleBreeze]

Learn more about the events of the night Jackson died »

-- At about 1:30 a.m., Murray gave Jackson 10 mg of Valium.

-- At about 2 a.m., he injected Jackson with 2 mg of the anti-anxiety drug Ativan.

-- At about 3 a.m., Murray then administered 2 mg of the sedative Versed.

-- At about 5 a.m., he administered another 2 mg of Ativan.

-- At about 7:30 a.m., Murray gave Jackson yet another 2 mg of Versed while monitoring him with a device that measured the oxygen saturation of a his blood.

-- At about 10:40 a.m., "after repeated demands/requests from Jackson," Murray administered 25 mg of propofol, the document said.

The drug works as a depressant on the central nervous system.

"It works on your brain," said Dr. Zeev Kain, the chair of the anesthesiology department at the University of California, Irvine. "It basically puts the entire brain to sleep."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/08/24/michael.jackson.propofol/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[daniel green]

Do you have a link to the search warrant? I can't find it. So now I wonder if it was a drip, shot, or what? I just wonder if this is a high or low dosage.

in my opinion

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf

It says diprivan DRIP.

[ish]

Blind panic I would imagine

What kind of protocol did MJ have with his employees that the Dr, in an emergency, instead of calling an adult for help, calls for a 13 yr old!! Whatever rules MJ had with regard to the "help" being in the family area should go out the window in an emergency. Instead he calls a kid up to see his father dying. :cursing:

[daniel green]

From the warrant--police found 8 bottles of diprivan in the rented house and "numerous other vials and pills."

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf

[?WudScoobyDo]

-------------

Why? Just because there was no note found?


My guess is there was sufficient evidence that pointed in a different direction.

[retiredcop]

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0824_murray_search_warrant_2.pdf

It says diprivan DRIP.

Thank you Mr Green.

in my opinion

[VC2]

Timeline on page 1 is missing things.

As per page 8 and 9:

01:30 - 10 mg valium tablet
02:00 - 2 mg Lorazepam (ativan) via IV
03:00 - 2 mg Versed via IV
05:00 - 2 mg Lorazepam again
07:30 - 5 mg Versed again
10:40 - 25 mg diprivan
10:50 - .2 mg flumanezil (opiate antagonist, narcan type)

[daniel green]

From the warrant--ibid--police had served several warrants to search for MJ "procuring drugs" using "several nicknames," including Propofol.

[Firehead11]

It says right on that warrant that Dr Murray had a pulse ox machine and was monitoring MJ correctly.

I must have missed it, which page, if I may ask?

[daniel green]

snipped
10:50 - .2 mg flumanezil (opiate antagonist, narcan type)

HA! I called that one.

I wonder what opiates MJ had in his system on top of all this.

[Firehead11]

Timeline on page 1 is missing things.

As per page 8 and 9:

01:30 - 10 mg valium tablet
02:00 - 2 mg Lorazepam (ativan) via IV
03:00 - 2 mg Versed via IV
05:00 - 2 mg Lorazepam again
07:30 - 5 mg Versed again
10:40 - 25 mg diprivan
10:50 - .2 mg flumanezil (opiate antagonist, narcan type)

Where are the 2 partially digested pills?

[daniel green]

Huh, this is weird.

Martinez, the detective from LAPD, according to the warrant says that DEA confirmed that Murray "never ordered, purchased or received any profofol."

From the warrant.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

What kind of protocol did MJ have with his employees that the Dr, in an emergency, instead of calling an adult for help, calls for a 13 yr old!! Whatever rules MJ had with regard to the "help" being in the family area should go out the window in an emergency. Instead he calls a kid up to see his father dying. :cursing:

I also heard a recount that MJ collapsed infront of his kids..So I take somethings with a grain of salt...IF Murray did call Prince to MJ;s death bed..I would believe it was to prove he was trying to save his dad...(That delay in calling 911 haunts me!!)...I dont believe for a minute Prince was in that room..BUT..if he was..I would love to smack Murray up side of head!! Cruel or what!!

LMS

[Firehead11]

I also heard a recount that MJ collapsed infront of his kids..So I take somethings with a grain of salt...IF Murray did call Prince to MJ;s death bed..I would believe it was to prove he was trying to save his dad...(That delay in calling 911 haunts me!!)...I dont believe for a minute Prince was in that room..BUT..if he was..I would love to smack Murray up side of head!! Cruel or what!!

LMS

I agree. What a damn cruel thing to do to a child.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Where are the 2 partially digested pills?

I think it will be the pills that ultimately prove that MJ died far earlier than what Murray is attempting to suggest..I think it was valium pills..the rest could be given IV....Valium can be given IV..but not usually recommened unless in Grand mal seizure......Man..Murray;s attourney was so silly to assert..nothing he gave MJ should have killed him???Yikes!!

LMS

[VC2]

I have found nothing about 2 undigested pills in his system, seems to me that was just a tmz rumor. it was never ever confirmed.

DG the narcan type would do nothing for the diprivan whatsoever. It was a clear hail mary imo.

Also an oximeter is not the only monitoring equipment needed for diprivan. You need respiration monitoring as well as heart monitoring. An oximeter might help but more is needed. the biggest piece of missing equipment is an intubation kit which as far as every single reference i have read is mandatory to save someone who collapses on diprivan

[daniel green]

On pg 17/32--police also found at MJ's beside:

Rxd by Murray:

Flomax
valium
Ativan
Restoryl

Rxd by Metsger:
Klonopin
Deseryl

Rxd by Klein:
zanaflex

Yikes.:scared:

[Firehead11]

Not official yet. Another unknown police source.:wink:

in my opinion

Did you read the warrant? The term "man-slaughter" is in the application for the search warrant.

[VC2]

I also heard a recount that MJ collapsed infront of his kids..So I take somethings with a grain of salt...IF Murray did call Prince to MJ;s death bed..I would believe it was to prove he was trying to save his dad...(That delay in calling 911 haunts me!!)...I dont believe for a minute Prince was in that room..BUT..if he was..I would love to smack Murray up side of head!! Cruel or what!!

LMS

Murray himself says he went to the kitchen and asked them to send Prince up to the bedroom :sad:

[daniel green]

I have found nothing about 2 undigested pills in his system, seems to me that was just a tmz rumor. it was never ever confirmed.

DG the narcan type would do nothing for the diprivan whatsoever. It was a clear hail mary imo.

snipped

We don't know Murray didn't have an intubation kit.

No, narcam would not have worked for diprivan at all--just wondered what opiates MJ had on board for the dr to try narcam.

No, nothing about the 2 pills in stomach here. But this is just a warrant based on what Murray TOLD police happened and what he administered.

The only reference I see to a tox report is that there were lethal amounts of diprivan found.

[daniel green]

Did you read the warrant? The term "man-slaughter" is in the application for the search warrant.

Which is why Murray's lawyer told TMZ and the press that it was a search warrant to find evidence of manslaughter, the day this warrant was served back when Murray's office and storage unit were served.

[Firehead11]

-------------

stop the baiting.

I think I said the same thing. I was going by what you orginally posted, that you heard that Jackson actually carried a suicide note in his pocket. I don't consider that baiting.

[daniel green]

From pg 18/32 of warrant:

Murray says he had been giving MJ 50 mgs diprivan ea night, IV, with lidocaine. Murray felt MJ was addicted to diprivan, tried to wean off by giving MJ 25 mgs diprivan with Versed and Ativan.

[retiredcop]

Did you read the warrant? The term "man-slaughter" is in the application for the search warrant.

I'm reading it. That has nothing to do with the ruling by the coroner which HAS NOT been released as of yet.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

June 23d Murray gave MJ only Ativan and Versed ("only" :scared::scared::scared:) and MJ was able to sleep.

[?WudScoobyDo]

[QUOTE=daniel green;13397024]We don't know Murray didn't have an intubation kit.

snipped
QUOTE]

But we do know that Michael Jackson was the victim of homicide, and that Dr. Murray is the person responsible for the unlawful death.

[GentleBreeze]

Huh, this is weird.

Martinez, the detective from LAPD, according to the warrant says that DEA confirmed that Murray "never ordered, purchased or received any profofol."

From the warrant.

But this search warrant was done on July 22, 2009.

They have gotten other search warrants since then including a pharmacy that Murray uses.

imo

[daniel green]

Fire--the part about the pulse-ox monitoring of MJ is on pg 18/32--near the bottom.

[Firehead11]

Which is why Murray's lawyer told TMZ and the press that it was a search warrant to find evidence of manslaughter, the day this warrant was served back when Murray's office and storage unit were served.

I know that, tell it to retiredcop who insists that it is not verfied by the local LE or the cornorers office.

I still have not found where it says anything about any machinery or equipment being found. It could be I skipped over it. Again could you give me the page of it. The link I have has 23 pages out of the 32 so maybe I am missing that page??:confused:

[?WudScoobyDo]

I wonder why Dr. Murray didn't mention to the investigators that he spent 47 minutes on the phone prior to calling 911. I also wonder why he fled the scene, and was inaccesable for considerable amount of time. What could have been more important for him to take off like that?

[VC2]

i am simply stunned at the 47 minutes of phone calls he made, that in itself ...omg

[Firehead11]

-------------

I was not talking to u.



WOW, talk about rude. So you are telling someone not to bait and didn't tell me when I said the samething?

[?WudScoobyDo]

I know that, tell it to retiredcop who insists that it is not verfied by the local LE or the cornorers office.

I still have not found where it says anything about any machinery or equipment being found. It could be I skipped over it. Again could you give me the page of it. The link I have has 23 pages out of the 32 so maybe I am missing that page??:confused:


It does say it, Im not sure which page. It is one of those things they stick on your finger.

[daniel green]

But this search warrant was done on July 22, 2009.

They have gotten other search warrants since then including a pharmacy that Murray uses.

imo

The warrant clearly states that the DEA confirmed that Murray had never ordered, purchased or received diprivan.

The pharmacy raided this past week was in Klein's bldg and always used by Klein.

[?WudScoobyDo]

i am simply stunned at the 47 minutes of phone calls he made, that in itself ...omg


I'm thinking LAPD should take Murray into custody, if not for his own safety, but the safety of the public, who is likely outraged and ready to riot or something.

[daniel green]

I know that, tell it to retiredcop who insists that it is not verfied by the local LE or the cornorers office.

I still have not found where it says anything about any machinery or equipment being found. It could be I skipped over it. Again could you give me the page of it. The link I have has 23 pages out of the 32 so maybe I am missing that page??:confused:

This warrant in and of itself has nothing to do with the coroner's office.

Look at the pages titled State of California, County of Los Angeles.

See pg marked 18/32 at top right.

The part about the pulse ox monitoring is at the bottom, lines 25-6.

[?WudScoobyDo]

The warrant clearly states that the DEA confirmed that Murray had never ordered, purchased or received diprivan.

The pharmacy raided this past week was in Klein's bldg and always used by Klein.

He must have received it at some point, since he admits he administered the lethal dose.

[Firehead11]

It does say it, Im not sure which page. It is one of those things they stick on your finger.

I kinda figured it was that, but how would that show that Murray was "monitoring Jackson" that way he should have been?

[daniel green]

pg 19/32--Murray left MJ's bedside for 2 mins, maximum.

[GentleBreeze]

My guess is there was sufficient evidence that pointed in a different direction.

He actually had his story down pat pretty good but he seemed to have forgotten one important thing. He told them that he only stepped out of the room for 2 minutes to relieve himself but failed to tell them he was on his cell phone for quite a length of time. 47 minutes iirc. Conveniently between the time that he administrated the diprivan and shortly before he was to have been doing CPR, so he said.

Surely he knew they would get his cell phone records.

imo

[Firehead11]

i am simply stunned at the 47 minutes of phone calls he made, that in itself ...omg

You think that shows reckless regard of a life?

[daniel green]

I kinda figured it was that, but how would that show that Murray was "monitoring Jackson" that way he should have been?

That is what a hospital would use, as well, to monitor the oxygen levels on a patient.

[daniel green]

Pg 19/32--Prince Jackson responds and goes upstairs and Prince summoned security detail.

[?WudScoobyDo]

pg 19/32--Murray left MJ's bedside for 2 mins, maximum.


I guess thats 2 minutes too many, since his sole patient died.

[daniel green]

I know. Mr Jackson was a such heavy duty drug addict it took a whole lot to get him to sleep.


in my opinion

Unbelievable the tolerance MJ had achieved.

[GentleBreeze]

The warrant clearly states that the DEA confirmed that Murray had never ordered, purchased or received diprivan.

The pharmacy raided this past week was in Klein's bldg and always used by Klein.

I am not talking about the pharmacy in K's building.

This warrant was for July 22, 2009 and LE did another SW on a Las Vegas pharmacy. It had nothing to do with Klein and everything to do with Murray and it was after 7-22-09 iirc.

imo

[Firehead11]

He actually had his story down pat pretty good but he seemed to have forgotten one important thing. He told them that he only stepped out of the room for 2 minutes to relieve himself but failed to tell them he was on his cell phone for quite a length of time. 47 minutes iirc. Conveniently between the time that he administrated the diprivan and shortly before he was to have been doing CPR, so he said.

Surely he knew they would get his cell phone records.

imo

Page 20 of 32. He started his phone calls appox 18 minutes AFTER he found Jackson not breathing. Called 3 different people and spoke until 12:05.

[Firehead11]

According to the timeline, Jackson was asleep for 7 hours, why did he give him 25mg of the drug?

[daniel green]

pg 19/32--Murray left his doctor's bag at the rented house and told LAPD exactly where they could find it.

pg19/32 Murray had repeatedly asked MJ what other docs were treating him. MJ said Klein and Metzger.

Murray noticed injection marks on MJ's hands and feet. :scared:

MJ said "Dr" Lee had given him a "cocktail" to help him. Murray believes it was diprivan. :scared:

[ABC]

[QUOTE=daniel green;13397024]We don't know Murray didn't have an intubation kit.

snipped
QUOTE]

But we do know that Michael Jackson was the victim of homicide, and that Dr. Murray is the person responsible for the unlawful death.

NO, WE don't know that at all. Gonna have to wait for the Coroner's report and an arrest. An anonymous source from the LAPD won't do and sure hope they are investigating this "leak".

I don't see the cops not arresting him in this time frame. He could have taken off for parts unknown and no extradiction long before this.

[?WudScoobyDo]

Page 20 of 32. He started his phone calls appox 18 minutes AFTER he found Jackson not breathing. Called 3 different people and spoke until 12:05.

I guess thats how long it takes to hide or destroy evidence of murder.

[GentleBreeze]

pg 19/32--Murray left MJ's bedside for 2 mins, maximum.

Those words are going to come back to haunt him especially when he omitted being on the phone for 47 minutes during the time line of unfolding events.

imo

[daniel green]

I am not talking about the pharmacy in K's building.

This warrant was for July 22, 2009 and LE did another SW on a Las Vegas pharmacy. It had nothing to do with Klein and everything to do with Murray and it was after 7-22-09 iirc.

imo

Uh huh, the infusion pharmacy where Dr Murray would have gotten the other injectibles and IV drugs he was giving MJ--like the ativan, deseryl, versed.

[Firehead11]

It wasn't a leak, the search warrant application was found in Harris Court. Apparently, it just made the public documents.

[daniel green]

NO, WE don't know that at all. Gonna have to wait for the Coroner's report and an arrest. An anonymous source from the LAPD won't do and sure hope they are investigating this "leak".

I don't see the cops not arresting him in this time frame. He could have taken off for parts unknown and no extradiction long before this.

Gosh, this is what we knew (not the details of what Murray says he gave MJ) from Murray's lawyer on the day of the search for which this warrant was obtained.

[Firehead11]

I guess thats how long it takes to hide or destroy evidence of murder.

I won't say that until we know who he called during that time frame. It could have been, his minister, his partner in life but I do believe that he certainly contributed to Jacksons death. I really hope that the LE can connect the dots all the way.

[GentleBreeze]

Page 20 of 32. He started his phone calls appox 18 minutes AFTER he found Jackson not breathing. Called 3 different people and spoke until 12:05.

Wow he is amazing. He can talk on the telly and still do CPR continously.

imo

[?WudScoobyDo]

Obviously not.


Yeah, I guess not, huh.

[GentleBreeze]

Uh huh, the infusion pharmacy where Dr Murray would have gotten the other injectibles and IV drugs he was giving MJ--like the ativan, deseryl, versed.

How do we know he didnt pick up some Propovol too?

imo

[Firehead11]

Wow he is amazing. He can talk on the telly and still do CPR continously.

imo

It just sickens me that he had his oldest son there to witness his attempt at reviving the dead Jackson.

[daniel green]

In March-April, MJ asked Murray to get a Dr David Adams to give MJ diprivan in Las Vegas. Murray told this to police and that he did, in fact, arrange for Dr Adams to give diprivan to MJ while there during that time.

[GentleBreeze]

Blue tooth? :confused:

Ah, now the defense would like that thought.:smile:

[?WudScoobyDo]

It just sickens me that he had his oldest son there to witness his attempt at reviving the dead Jackson.

That fact will probably play a significant part in the wrongful death case.

[daniel green]

How do we know he didnt pick up some Propovol too?

imo

I am just stating what this warrant says. It clearly says that DEA had confirmed that Murray had never ordered, purchased or received diprivan. :rolleyes:

[VC2]

Page 20 of 32. He started his phone calls appox 18 minutes AFTER he found Jackson not breathing. Called 3 different people and spoke until 12:05.

shocking, this is before he called 911 too isn't it?

[GentleBreeze]

It just sickens me that he had his oldest son there to witness his attempt at reviving the dead Jackson.

That was totally unnecessary. Murray could have yelled out for the Chef or any adult there to get them to call 911.

I hope Prince did not go all the way up but ran to get security instead.

imo

[daniel green]

HOLEY MOLEY!!!!!! :scared:

Pg 20/32:

Murray was present during at a COSMETOLOGIST"S OFFICE while MJ was sedated with diprivan. :scared:

This was around the time MJ asked Murray to be his consierge doc.

[?WudScoobyDo]

HOLEY MOLEY!!!!!! :scared:

Pg 20/32:

Murray was present during at a COSMETOLOGIST"S OFFICE while MJ was sedated with diprivan. :scared:

This was around the time MJ asked Murray to be his consierge doc.


Cosmetologist's generally work in a salon. I think that must have been a type-o.

[?WudScoobyDo]

I am just stating what this warrant says. It clearly says that DEA had confirmed that Murray had never ordered, purchased or received diprivan. :rolleyes:

He received enough of it to kill his patient.... obviously.

[VC2]

pg 19/32--Murray left his doctor's bag at the rented house and told LAPD exactly where they could find it.

pg19/32 Murray had repeatedly asked MJ what other docs were treating him. MJ said Klein and Metzger.

Murray noticed injection marks on MJ's hands and feet. :scared:

MJ said "Dr" Lee had given him a "cocktail" to help him. Murray believes it was diprivan. :scared:

I lol'd at that. What bull. considering that diprivan only works for a minute unless given continuously i have never heard such a stupid comment from someone.

I think Murray just wanted to pass the buck because diprivan is not part of a vitamin cocktail mix and is useless as a one time injection

[daniel green]

Police found at the house:

None of these had the name of patient--unlabled.

Lidocaine
Diprivan
bottles and vials of Ativan
Versed
Anexate

pg 21/32

[Firehead11]

shocking, this is before he called 911 too isn't it?

Yep...
and he didn't perform CPR continuously. He left Jackson and ran downstairs to the kitchen to have Prince summoned to the bedroom.

BY the way, I found where they mentioned the meter. I went and look up the drug mentioned right before that.

[daniel green]

Pg 21/32 DEA told LAPD that Propofol/Diprivan is difficult to track.

DEA told LAPD that all docs and nurse practitioners have to have a DEA number and with said number, all Rx charges/orders can be found by the DEA.

THE DEA SEACHED VARIOUS SYSTEMS AND NEVER FOUND ANY PURCHASE OR ORDER MADE BY MURRAY FOR DIPRIVAN.

[GentleBreeze]

I am just stating what this warrant says. It clearly says that DEA had confirmed that Murray had never ordered, purchased or received diprivan. :rolleyes:

But when were these Texas recorded documents done? Before or after other SW and raids of other places connected to Murray. Werent the Houston office and storage unit raid before the others that have now transpired since then?

imo

[Firehead11]

Police found at the house:

None of these had the name of patient--unlabled.

Lidocaine
Diprivan
bottles and vials of Ativan
Versed
Anexate

pg 21/32

They mention the doctors bag at the beginning of the same paragraph. I took it to mean that these drugs were in the doctors bag. :confused:

[Firehead11]

But when were these Texas recorded documents done? Before or after other SW and raids of other places connected to Murray. Werent the Houston office and storage unit raid before the others that have now transpired since then?

imo

YES, remember that none of us could understand the week delay between the two searches?

[GentleBreeze]

HOLEY MOLEY!!!!!! :scared:

Pg 20/32:

Murray was present during at a COSMETOLOGIST"S OFFICE while MJ was sedated with diprivan. :scared:

This was around the time MJ asked Murray to be his consierge doc.

Yes, Murray sure seem more than willing to see that MJ got what he wanted. Heck he didn't even have to be his doctor and he was the go to man to see that another doc did it for him.

Somehow I think a lot of these doctors are doing similar favs for other celebrities.

imo

[daniel green]

But when were these Texas recorded documents done? Before or after other SW and raids of other places connected to Murray. Werent the Houston office and storage unit raid before the others that have now transpired since then?

imo

The DEA searche on every computer system they have and NO profofol/diprivan has ever been purchased with Murray's DEA number.

Now, I have explained this several times. That means EVER. No purchases made, orders made, or received by Murray.

You might want to read the warrant.

[daniel green]

They mention the doctors bag at the beginning of the same paragraph. I took it to mean that these drugs were in the doctors bag. :confused:

Seems like 2 different things to me, read it again and lemme know.

[Unperson1984]

It just sickens me that he had his oldest son there to witness his attempt at reviving the dead Jackson.

That was wrong on every level, why did Murray call a child for help? What was he thinking?

[Firehead11]

Pg 21/32 DEA told LAPD that Propofol/Diprivan is difficult to track.

DEA told LAPD that all docs and nurse practitioners have to have a DEA number and with said number, all Rx charges/orders can be found by the DEA.

THE DEA SEACHED VARIOUS SYSTEMS AND NEVER FOUND ANY PURCHASE OR ORDER MADE BY MURRAY FOR DIPRIVAN.

I take it to mean, up until July 17, 2009. You can see a fax time stamp from Ca. on the page before 16/32. The order was granted on the 22nd of July.

[Firehead11]

That was wrong on every level, why did Murray call a child for help? What was he thinking?

Witness to Jackson still be alive and doctor working on Daddy.

[Unperson1984]

Yes, Murray sure seem more than willing to see that MJ got what he wanted. Heck he didn't even have to be his doctor and he was the go to man to see that another doc did it for him.

Somehow I think a lot of these doctors are doing similar favs for other celebrities.

imo

It appears Murray wasn't the only doctor making sure MJ got what he wanted.

[daniel green]

Pg 21/32

Randy Burke, Jackson fam atty, told LAPD that MJ was being treated by Dr Randy Rosen--that MJ had told them that. Jacksons also said that MJ would have Rxs written in the names of his entourage.

Through interviews with Jackson's staff, employees and family LAPD determined that, at the time of his death, MJ's closest associates were

Michael Amir Williams Muhammed
Jimmy Nicholas
Prince Jackson
Kai Chase
Faheem Muhammed

A female called LAPD on JULY 17th and told them about the aliases MJ used while seeing Dr Klein--"Omar Arnold," "Fernand Diaz," "Peter Madonie," and "Josephine Baker."

LAPD found Rxs by Dr Klein made out to "Omar Arnold" in the house.
"

[sunstar]

i am simply stunned at the 47 minutes of phone calls he made, that in itself ...omg

All while the patient was unresponsive. And the long delay before finally calling 911. :sad: MOO

[daniel green]

That was wrong on every level, why did Murray call a child for help? What was he thinking?

HORRIBLE.

The only thing I can figure is that, since Prince gave the staff orders--as per articles we have seen--that Prince had to get the security detail???? Because Murray said he called MJ's personal assistant up and had him try to get Sec Detail, then says he called the chef to get Prince--and then Prince responds and HE gets the sec detail.

[retiredcop]

The report the coroner is ruling this a homicide is still all coming from a single source, law enforcement person, no name, and reported to only the AP. They have been known to be wrong in the past.

If this is true they should just go ahead and release the autopsy report since the cat is out of the bag.:wink:

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

I know that, tell it to retiredcop who insists that it is not verfied by the local LE or the cornorers office.

I still have not found where it says anything about any machinery or equipment being found. It could be I skipped over it. Again could you give me the page of it. The link I have has 23 pages out of the 32 so maybe I am missing that page??:confused:


I read it between pages 9 - 11. ????

[Firehead11]

Seems like 2 different things to me, read it again and lemme know.

Where they list all those drugs is located on page 20/32 near the bottom. Line 19 to 25. To make things clearer, I am just talking about the drugs that were found that didn't appear to be prescribed to anyone.

The following paragraph deals with the propofol which continues onto page 21/32.

[retiredcop]

All while the patient was unresponsive. And the long delay before finally calling 911. :sad: MOO

This makes no sense to me at all. I believe the 11:00 should really be 12:00. Something got mixed up here.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

I take it to mean, up until July 17, 2009. You can see a fax time stamp from Ca. on the page before 16/32. The order was granted on the 22nd of July.

OK. One last attempt and them I am done.

The DEA can check EVERY SINGLE PURCHASE made--EVER--on its computer systems. They ckd them all and there has never been an order, purchase or delivery from or to Murray.

It makes no difference that there have been subsequent searches at pharmacies. The DEA knew already Murray had not made any such purchase/orders/received from its own files. :tongueside:

[Firehead11]

I read it between pages 9 - 11. ????

I finally found it, thanks. Oh we are using the page number at the top right corner as the page number.

[daniel green]

It appears Murray wasn't the only doctor making sure MJ got what he wanted.

Seems like there were a huge number of docs doing same. AND cosmetologists and nurses.

[Unperson1984]

He actually had his story down pat pretty good but he seemed to have forgotten one important thing. He told them that he only stepped out of the room for 2 minutes to relieve himself but failed to tell them he was on his cell phone for quite a length of time. 47 minutes iirc. Conveniently between the time that he administrated the diprivan and shortly before he was to have been doing CPR, so he said.

Surely he knew they would get his cell phone records.

imo

I imagine Murray will claim he made the calls from the room MJ was in at the time, and it will be hard to prove he wasn't.

IMO

[daniel green]

Yes, Murray sure seem more than willing to see that MJ got what he wanted. Heck he didn't even have to be his doctor and he was the go to man to see that another doc did it for him.

snipped

Have you read the warrant? :confused: You did read that this Dr Adams was an old buddy's of MJ and MJ was the one who told Murray to call him, right? :confused:

[daniel green]

I imagine Murray will claim he made the calls from the room MJ was in at the time, and it will be hard to prove he wasn't.

IMO

Yeah. And for all anyone knows, he made the calls from his room or the kitchen or the garage or the pool or wherever.

[Cindylee]

That was wrong on every level, why did Murray call a child for help? What was he thinking?

That was pretty sick. Why not tell the chef to call 911? Grrrrrrr

[Unperson1984]

Could this be the bombshell Geraldo hinted at last night?

:sad:

[retiredcop]

That was wrong on every level, why did Murray call a child for help? What was he thinking?

Could he have been thinking Mr Jackson was dying and he wanted his older son to be there with his father? I think the child may just be grateful for that.

in my opinion

[impartial]

OK. One last attempt and them I am done.

The DEA can check EVERY SINGLE PURCHASE made--EVER--on its computer systems. They ckd them all and there has never been an order, purchase or delivery from or to Murray.

It makes no difference that there have been subsequent searches at pharmacies. The DEA knew already Murray had not made any such purchase/orders/received from its own files. :tongueside:


Oh daniel, you're so patient.

Controlled substances are tracked and are triple RX's. The DEA's search apparently searched all of the DEA number's that prescribed/received diprivan. The lot numbers would show which hospital/pharmacy received it. Those searches revealed Murray had not ordered (as in hospital setting), prescribed or purchased diprivan.

IMO

[daniel green]

pg21-22/32

LAPD searched for records from:

Nurse Lee
Metzger
Klein
Murray
David Adams
Tadrissi
David Slavit (doc who performed physical for AEG)
Randy Rosen

[Firehead11]

OK. One last attempt and them I am done.

The DEA can check EVERY SINGLE PURCHASE made--EVER--on its computer systems. They ckd them all and there has never been an order, purchase or delivery from or to Murray.

It makes no difference that there have been subsequent searches at pharmacies. The DEA knew already Murray had not made any such purchase/orders/received from its own files. :tongueside:

Ok one more last attempt here also, the search warrant application was issued on July 17 and the search warrant approval was issued on July 22, 2009. There were additional search warrants AFTER July 22, 2009, in Vegas. They could not have possibly known what they could have found in further searches. The DEA even went back last week to his favorite pharamacy. Remember? After this search, he could have ordered it online. That is all that is being said. Up to that date, they searched and found no evidence of any purchased but now?? Personally I think that once they find that link, an arrest will be made.

[retiredcop]

Could this be the bombshell Geraldo hinted at last night?

:sad:

I thought that right away. Could they have had someone get in contact with AP themselves? Seems coincidental to me. It also starts the publicity rolling again.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

Oh daniel, you're so patient.

Controlled substances are tracked and are triple RX's. The DEA's search apparently searched all of the DEA number's that prescribed/received diprivan. The lot numbers would show which hospital/pharmacy received it. Those searches revealed Murray had not ordered (as in hospital setting), prescribed or purchased diprivan.

IMO

HA! Nobody has ever called me patient before!! :laugh: Thank you!

I do think you explained it so much better than I did, though!

[Cindylee]

HORRIBLE.

The only thing I can figure is that, since Prince gave the staff orders--as per articles we have seen--that Prince had to get the security detail???? Because Murray said he called MJ's personal assistant up and had him try to get Sec Detail, then says he called the chef to get Prince--and then Prince responds and HE gets the sec detail.

Not a great security detail if they can't be found in an emergency. :confused:

[daniel green]

Could this be the bombshell Geraldo hinted at last night?

:sad:

WHAT a coindinky, huh?

[Cindylee]

I finally found it, thanks. Oh we are using the page number at the top right corner as the page number.

I was using the page number at the bottom of the adobe reader. ???

[Cindylee]

I thought that right away. Could they have had someone get in contact with AP themselves? Seems coincidental to me. It also starts the publicity rolling again.

in my opinion

And didn't the Jackson's say they had an announcement today???

[GentleBreeze]

I imagine Murray will claim he made the calls from the room MJ was in at the time, and it will be hard to prove he wasn't.

IMO

That will be a hard sell imo. His patient that night was having a terrible terrible time going to sleep so when he does finally get him under he yaps on the phone 47 minutes in his room? I don't buy it.

He would be walking on pincushions making sure that he did not dare make any noise that may bring him out from under it. After all he hadn't even given him as much as he had been giving him, so he says.

imo

[Unperson1984]

Ok one more last attempt here also, the search warrant application was issued on July 17 and the search warrant approval was issued on July 22, 2009. There were additional search warrants AFTER July 22, 2009, in Vegas. They could not have possibly known what they could have found in further searches. The DEA even went back last week to his favorite pharamacy. Remember? After this search, he could have ordered it online. That is all that is being said. Up to that date, they searched and found no evidence of any purchased but now?? Personally I think that once they find that link, an arrest will be made.

It doesn't matter what items were found in subsequent searches, the DEA had already completed the search of pharmacy records by the 17th of July.

Whatever else was found it wouldn't change the outcome of the DEA's computer search.

[GentleBreeze]

Oh daniel, you're so patient.

Controlled substances are tracked and are triple RX's. The DEA's search apparently searched all of the DEA number's that prescribed/received diprivan. The lot numbers would show which hospital/pharmacy received it. Those searches revealed Murray had not ordered (as in hospital setting), prescribed or purchased diprivan.

IMO

Diprivan isn't a controlled substance though.

imo

[daniel green]

pg21-22/32

LAPD searched for records from:

Nurse Lee
Metzger
Klein
Murray
David Adams
Tadrissi
David Slavit (doc who performed physical for AEG)
Randy Rosen

pg 22/32 (upper right hand corner numbers)

Some of those docs made files/records available to coroner.

Murray provided records for MJ back to 2006. WOW. 2006?????
Including aliases MJ had used with him--Omar Arnold, Paul Farance,
Paul Farance.

Klein wouldn't give any records except from March 2009, and said MJ used alias Omar Arnold.

Tadrissi provided records with aliases Mike Jackson and Bryan Singleton

[Cindylee]

Re posting this over here.

TMZ:

"Dr. Arnold Klein, Michael Jackson's friend and doctor, wrote dozens of prescriptions for powerful controlled substances for himself, according to a search warrant obtained by TMZ.

dr. arnold klein

We got hold of the affidavit for the search warrant that allowed the DEA to raid Mickey Fine Pharmacy in Beverly Hills -- the pharmacy Dr. Klein often used to fill prescriptions for Michael Jackson, often using aliases.

According to the affidavit, records show Dr. Klein self-prescribed 27 times from March, 2006 through May, 2009. The prescriptions include "the medications hydrocodone (Vicodin), modafinil (Provigil), diazepam (Valium), and injectable midazolam (Versed). The prescriptions were filled at Mickey Fine Pharmacy in Beverly Hills.

According to California law, "No person shall prescribe, administer, or furnish a controlled substance for himself."

It is not known if Dr. Klein used the prescriptions for himself or possibly for Michael Jackson. We do know Dr. Klein often prescribed to Jackson using various aliases.

Interestingly, the affidavit states Dr. Klein's lawyer told the DEA that his client "has never self-prescribed."

[Unperson1984]

That will be a hard sell imo. His patient that night was having a terrible terrible time going to sleep so when he does finally get him under he yaps on the phone 47 minutes in his room? I don't buy it.

He would be walking on pincushions making sure that he did not dare make any noise that may bring him out from under it. After all he hadn't even given him as much as he had been giving him, so he says.

imo

I don't think noise bothers a person on diprivan. This wasn't a normal state of sleep, it was a chemically induced sleep.

[impartial]

It doesn't matter what items were found in subsequent searches, the DEA had already completed the search of pharmacy records by the 17th of July.

Whatever else was found it wouldn't change the outcome of the DEA's computer search.


Adams is an anesthesiologist ... wonder if he supplied it.

:shrug:

[daniel green]

That will be a hard sell imo. His patient that night was having a terrible terrible time going to sleep so when he does finally get him under he yaps on the phone 47 minutes in his room? snipped

Why not? Docs in the operating room listen to sports radio, laugh, make jokes, listen to music, whatever. Patients in a coma aren't gonna hear.

[Unperson1984]

pg 22/32 (upper right hand corner numbers)

Some of those docs made files/records available to coroner.

Murray provided records for MJ back to 2006. WOW. 2006?????
Including aliases MJ had used with him--Omar Arnold, Paul Farance,
Paul Farance.

Klein wouldn't give any records except from March 2009, and said MJ used alias Omar Arnold.

Tadrissi provided records with aliases Mike Jackson and Bryan Singleton

I notice Nurse Lee hadn't provided the requested records at the time of this warrant.

Hmmm...

[Firehead11]

It doesn't matter what items were found in subsequent searches, the DEA had already completed the search of pharmacy records by the 17th of July.

Whatever else was found it wouldn't change the outcome of the DEA's computer search.

Then you ask them why they went to the pharmacy yet once again. I am done with this subject. The US pharmacy, maybe not internet purchase. Like out of the county purchase?

[GentleBreeze]

Ok one more last attempt here also, the search warrant application was issued on July 17 and the search warrant approval was issued on July 22, 2009. There were additional search warrants AFTER July 22, 2009, in Vegas. They could not have possibly known what they could have found in further searches. The DEA even went back last week to his favorite pharmacy. Remember? After this search, he could have ordered it online. That is all that is being said. Up to that date, they searched and found no evidence of any purchased but now?? Personally I think that once they find that link, an arrest will be made.

Since diprivan isn't even a controlled substance it seem to me in other SWs after the July 17th that the DEA could have found purchases bought and paid for with a credit card from some pharmacy that Murray may have been known to buy from.

imo

[Unperson1984]

Adams is an anesthesiologist ... wonder if he supplied it.

:shrug:

Hi Impartial :seeya:

That's real possibility.

[Firehead11]

http://gossiprex.com/police-track-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-shipments

Submitted by admin on August 14, 2009 – 5:38 amNo Comment

It is believed Murray was getting shipments of the drug through FedEx and may have been storing it outside Jackson's home, so he could regularly administer it.

A search warrant used to raid the Las Vegas pharmacy that Dr. Conrad Murray has used in the past has been obtained and there appears to be a direct link between the doctor and Propofol and possibly a link to Michael Jackson as well.
Documents show authorities were looking for credit card receipts and other documents related to drugs purchased by Dr. Murray on May 12, 2009. The warrant mentions specific vials of Propofol manufactured by Teva and Hospira, Inc.

Take it for what it is worth but this is all I am saying... They did not finish looking at everything by July 17 or July 22.

[Unperson1984]

Since diprivan isn't even a controlled substance it seem to me in other SWs after the July 17th that the DEA could have found purchases bought and paid for with a credit card from some pharmacy that Murray may have been known to buy from.

imo

Why wouldn't the DEA's computer search have found them? They would have to have been filled before MJ died.

[GentleBreeze]

Why not? Docs in the operating room listen to sports radio, laugh, make jokes, listen to music, whatever. Patients in a coma aren't gonna hear.

I have heard of cases where the patient did hear what was going on even though they were supposed to be under and in the middle of surgery.

Just doesn't seem feasible to me.

imo

[Firehead11]

Since diprivan isn't even a controlled substance it seem to me in other SWs after the July 17th that the DEA could have found purchases bought and paid for with a credit card from some pharmacy that Murray may have been known to buy from.

imo

see post #225

[Unperson1984]

Then you ask them why they went to the pharmacy yet once again. I am done with this subject. The US pharmacy, maybe not internet purchase. Like out of the county purchase?

I hadn't thought of out of the country pharmacies, that's a possibility. I imagine there aren't a lot of pharmacies that carry diprivan so it shouldn't be too difficult to track.

Another possibility would be that Murray paid for a prescription which another doctor wrote.

[GentleBreeze]

Why wouldn't the DEA's computer search have found them? They would have to have been filled before MJ died.

How could they find something that had no chain of custody. Diprivan is not even a controlled substance so the DEA doesn't keep up with it and that is a problem but I do think that will be rectified due to this high profile case.

It can take many weeks to get credit card records on purchases. From what I understand it is not illegal to buy this uncontrolled drug, no more than it is to buy vitamins.

All I know is the DEA accompanied them on all raids in Las Vegas after 7-17 so imo they were looking for a link to Murray and the purchasing of Propovol.



imo

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Re posting this over here.

TMZ:

"Dr. Arnold Klein, Michael Jackson's friend and doctor, wrote dozens of prescriptions for powerful controlled substances for himself, according to a search warrant obtained by TMZ.

dr. arnold klein

We got hold of the affidavit for the search warrant that allowed the DEA to raid Mickey Fine Pharmacy in Beverly Hills -- the pharmacy Dr. Klein often used to fill prescriptions for Michael Jackson, often using aliases.

According to the affidavit, records show Dr. Klein self-prescribed 27 times from March, 2006 through May, 2009. The prescriptions include "the medications hydrocodone (Vicodin), modafinil (Provigil), diazepam (Valium), and injectable midazolam (Versed). The prescriptions were filled at Mickey Fine Pharmacy in Beverly Hills.

According to California law, "No person shall prescribe, administer, or furnish a controlled substance for himself."

It is not known if Dr. Klein used the prescriptions for himself or possibly for Michael Jackson. We do know Dr. Klein often prescribed to Jackson using various aliases.

Interestingly, the affidavit states Dr. Klein's lawyer told the DEA that his client "has never self-prescribed."

What is PROVIGIL (modafinil), and what does it do?
PROVIGIL is a prescription medicine used to improve wakefulness in adults who experience excessive sleepiness (ES) due to one of the following diagnosed sleep disorders: obstructive sleep apnea (OSA), shift work sleep disorder, also known as shift work disorder, or narcolepsy.

http://www.provigil.com/



So what did he become too sleepy from his other meds and then he needed this? One an upper to combat the downers?

Either way, Murry IMO is not at fault for his addiction-- look at what Murray gave him before the diprovan-- enough to kill a horse.

I can only hope that ALL doctors involved in his addiction are prosecuted.

[daniel green]

According to the affidavit, records show Dr. Klein self-prescribed 27 times from March, 2006 through May, 2009. The prescriptions include "the medications hydrocodone (Vicodin), modafinil (Provigil), diazepam (Valium), and injectable midazolam (Versed). The prescriptions were filled at Mickey Fine Pharmacy in Beverly Hills.

snipped
Interestingly, the affidavit states Dr. Klein's lawyer told the DEA that his client "has never self-prescribed."

YOUZER :scared::scared::scared:

Unbelievable--thx. Cindy!!!

[Xenam]

I think it will be the pills that ultimately prove that MJ died far earlier than what Murray is attempting to suggest..I think it was valium pills..the rest could be given IV....Valium can be given IV..but not usually recommened unless in Grand mal seizure......Man..Murray;s attourney was so silly to assert..nothing he gave MJ should have killed him???Yikes!!

LMS

Hi everyone --

Lynda was just thinking the same thing as I was logging in and saw your post. Pills only take 20 minutes to digest (an hour max) but valium is considered fast-acting. Why would there be undigested pills in his stomach if he died after 10:40AM the following morning? Timeline doesn't make sense. JMO

[Cindylee]

http://gossiprex.com/police-track-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-shipments

Submitted by admin on August 14, 2009 – 5:38 amNo Comment

It is believed Murray was getting shipments of the drug through FedEx and may have been storing it outside Jackson's home, so he could regularly administer it.

A search warrant used to raid the Las Vegas pharmacy that Dr. Conrad Murray has used in the past has been obtained and there appears to be a direct link between the doctor and Propofol and possibly a link to Michael Jackson as well.
Documents show authorities were looking for credit card receipts and other documents related to drugs purchased by Dr. Murray on May 12, 2009. The warrant mentions specific vials of Propofol manufactured by Teva and Hospira, Inc.

Take it for what it is worth but this is all I am saying... They did not finish looking at everything by July 17 or July 22.

The LV pharmacy was the infusion pharmacy right?

[retiredcop]

And didn't the Jackson's say they had an announcement today???

Yes they sure did according to Geraldo last night and it was going to be a real bombshell. Maybe they are just tired of waiting for the investigation to conclude.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

I have heard of cases where the patient did hear what was going on even though they were supposed to be under and in the middle of surgery.

Just doesn't seem feasible to me.

imo

The noise level during every surgery is off the chain.

When a person is a drug-induced coma (which is what diprivan and versed do) docs and nurses and techs have music blasting, tons of converstaion, the whole shebang. So a doc making a few cell phone calls is so unreal? Nah.

[Cindylee]

How could they find something that had no chain of custody. Diprivan is not even a controlled substance so the DEA doesn't keep up with it and that is a problem but I do think that will be rectified due to this high profile case.

It can take many weeks to get credit card records on purchases. From what I understand it is not illegal to buy this uncontrolled drug, no more than it is to buy vitamins.

All I know is the DEA accompanied them on all raids in Las Vegas after 7-17 so imo they were looking for a link to Murray and the purchasing of Propovol.



imo

The bottles have lot numbers I think.

[Unperson1984]

http://www.provigil.com/



So what did he become too sleepy from his other meds and then he needed this? One an upper to combat the downers?

Either way, Murry IMO is not at fault for his addiction-- look at what Murray gave him before the diprovan-- enough to kill a horse.

I can only hope that ALL doctors involved in his addiction are prosecuted.

I said from the start that I thought MJ was taking amphetamines, it explains his extreme thinness and his sleeping problem. IMO

[daniel green]

http://www.provigil.com/



So what did he become too sleepy from his other meds and then he needed this? One an upper to combat the downers?

Either way, Murry IMO is not at fault for his addiction-- look at what Murray gave him before the diprovan-- enough to kill a horse.

I can only hope that ALL doctors involved in his addiction are prosecuted.

Wow, I missed that provigil. YIKES. That is straight up speed. It is what is Rxd to ppl with narcolepsy, for petesakes.

So he has to take provigil to get up and going and then that slew of downers to get to sleep and/or get high.

Oh, yeah, the tolerance MJ had was amazing. Just the versed alone would have knocked out huge linebackers.

Thx for noticing the provigil. BTW, nobody in their right mind would ever Rx provigil to a patient that has insomnia. :scared:

[impartial]

How could they find something that had no chain of custody. Diprivan is not even a controlled substance so the DEA doesn't keep up with it and that is a problem but I do think that will be rectified due to this high profile case.

It can take many weeks to get credit card records on purchases. From what I understand it is not illegal to buy this uncontrolled drug, no more than it is to buy vitamins.

All I know is the DEA accompanied them on all raids in Las Vegas after 7-17 so imo they were looking for a link to Murray and the purchasing of Propovol.



imo


You still have to have a DEA number to order, prescribe or purchase any prescription medication. A search of his DEA number would reveal his RX's.

So I'm confused why a search of a specific pharmacy would reveal something more than a search of his prescribing history.

:confused:

[GentleBreeze]

http://gossiprex.com/police-track-dr-conrad-murray-propofol-shipments

Submitted by admin on August 14, 2009 – 5:38 amNo Comment

It is believed Murray was getting shipments of the drug through FedEx and may have been storing it outside Jackson's home, so he could regularly administer it.

A search warrant used to raid the Las Vegas pharmacy that Dr. Conrad Murray has used in the past has been obtained and there appears to be a direct link between the doctor and Propofol and possibly a link to Michael Jackson as well.
Documents show authorities were looking for credit card receipts and other documents related to drugs purchased by Dr. Murray on May 12, 2009. The warrant mentions specific vials of Propofol manufactured by Teva and Hospira, Inc.

Take it for what it is worth but this is all I am saying... They did not finish looking at everything by July 17 or July 22.

Ah ha.........now I remember the May 12 date.

Yes, I knew it was far from over when the July 17th SW was done. The DEA/LAPD continued on diligently after then.

imo

[retiredcop]

That will be a hard sell imo. His patient that night was having a terrible terrible time going to sleep so when he does finally get him under he yaps on the phone 47 minutes in his room? I don't buy it.

He would be walking on pincushions making sure that he did not dare make any noise that may bring him out from under it. After all he hadn't even given him as much as he had been giving him, so he says.

imo

No, not if Mr Jackson was under Diprivan. I do bet those phone calls were made from the bedroom.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

You still have to have a DEA number to order, prescribe or purchase any prescription medication. A search of his DEA number would reveal his RX's.

So I'm confused why a search of a specific pharmacy would reveal something more than a search of his prescribing history.

:confused:

Is diprivan known as a prescription drug?

imo

[daniel green]

Adams is an anesthesiologist ... wonder if he supplied it.

:shrug:

Oh, is he? Well, surprise, surprise.

[Xenam]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6808546.ece

snipped

A law enforcement official in Los Angeles confirmed this evening that a ruling from the coroner’s office has deemed Jackson’s death to be a homicide.
--------------------------------------------
There is no information from the cororner's office, the DA, or the police. This is a single source not named.

HLN reporting they contacted the LAPD who said this information did not come from them. This has not been confirmed that it is ruled a homicide.

in my opinion

From your link:

An official at the coroner’s office said a fatal combination of drugs was given to Jackson hours before he died in his rented Los Angeles mansion on June 25. Forensic tests found the powerful anesthetic propofol in Jackson's system along with two sedatives, the official said

[Cindylee]

Is diprivan known as a prescription drug?

imo

Gentle, you can't get diprovan at any pharmacy. Hospital pharmacy's on Dr. order. Nurses can get it in the hospital. Or at a pharmacy like the one in Vegas. An infusion pharmacy. And a Dr. would have to get it. That is my understanding anyway.

[impartial]

Is diprivan known as a prescription drug?

imo



If a pharmacy is filling it, it's a prescription drug. Apparently it's not a controlled substance only because they didn't think there was a risk of addiction.

"Because a dose lasts just a few minutes, it's not uncommon for users to inject themselves 80 times a day as they search for a brief high or the sensation of slipping into unconsciousness, according to physicians who have studied Diprivan abuse." http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourhealth/medications/articles/diprivan_the_drug_found_in_michael_jacksons_home_m ay_be_more_tightly_restricted.html


Yowzer !

[daniel green]

You still have to have a DEA number to order, prescribe or purchase any prescription medication. A search of his DEA number would reveal his RX's.

So I'm confused why a search of a specific pharmacy would reveal something more than a search of his prescribing history.

:confused:

Try hitting your head against a brick. It will not only be easier, it will hurt lesss! :biggrin:

[daniel green]

Is diprivan known as a prescription drug?

imo

YES. :rolleyes:

[GentleBreeze]

No, not if Mr Jackson was under Diprivan. I do bet those phone calls were made from the bedroom.

in my opinion

That is not true, imo. A lot of people are given diprivan and there have been some who could hear the doctors and nurses talking even though they were to be under.

So I highly doubt that Murray was yapping it up in the room for 47 minutes where the man who was who was paying him $150K monthly to administer the meds correctly and monitor him constantly throughout.

Strangers yet that he simply omits that part even though it is right smack in the middle of when he had just given him the diprivan and shortly before he realized his patient is in dire straits.

imo

[daniel green]

pg 22

Dr Tadrissi said he also used Dr Adams to give MJ "consious sedation" per MJ's request.

And how about this--Lee's records had not been received as of the date of this warrant. :confused:

Neither had Mezger's.

[GentleBreeze]

YES. :rolleyes:

Really? So doctors can prescribe diprivan for their patients and they just go by the drug store like usual and pick it up??:w00t:

[retiredcop]

LKL has report on Mr Jackson, on now.

[Firehead11]

A child? Not a bodyguard, not the cook, not the maid ?

How would a panicked child be able to tell if his dad was
still breathing?

Wouldn't that be the point of calling the child in?

[daniel green]

That is not true, imo. A lot of people are given diprivan and there have been some who could hear the doctors and nurses talking even though they were to be under.

snipped

It's factual. Nothing noisier than an OR.

You keep bringing up those known number of ppl (very small) that hear and feel and remember during anesthesia--and that has nothing to do with anything.

[Xenam]

I lol'd at that. What bull. considering that diprivan only works for a minute unless given continuously i have never heard such a stupid comment from someone.

I think Murray just wanted to pass the buck because diprivan is not part of a vitamin cocktail mix and is useless as a one time injection

Definitely gotta be angry with Lee for turning in the knowledge of the diprivan and now he's trying to pass the blame to her :rolleyes:

[daniel green]

Really? So doctors can prescribe diprivan for their patients and they just go by the drug store like usual and pick it up??:w00t:

Being obtuse never gets anyone anywhere.

The DEA confirms that Murray never ordered/purchased/received any diprivan with his DEA number. And the DEA can figure it out, even if posters can't.

[VC2]

This makes no sense to me at all. I believe the 11:00 should really be 12:00. Something got mixed up here.

in my opinion

I don't. The LE officer stated specifically that he was on the phone for 47 minutes during those times. Not a mistake. If it was even at noon that meant he was on the phone before 911 was called, during cpr at the house, in the ambulance and at the ER. However it fits with other info we have received, and the officer also pointed out that Murray did not let the m know about.

btw LKL is covering it now. One doc says nned BP, respiration rate monitors, heart monitors for Diprivan.

IO

[Firehead11]

I just found a place online that I can order Propofol:

Diprivan - 10mg/ml Emulsion 50ml Vial
Quantity Our Price
1 vial $25.99
3 vials $65.97
4 vials $87.96
5 vials $109.95
6 vials $131.94
other: update price

:scared:

If Coldwater would like to see the link to verify it, I will give it to her only.

[GentleBreeze]

Gentle, you can't get diprovan at any pharmacy. Hospital pharmacy's on Dr. order. Nurses can get it in the hospital. Or at a pharmacy like the one in Vegas. An infusion pharmacy. And a Dr. would have to get it. That is my understanding anyway.

Thank you. I am getting rather confused I think, because I cant think of a reason why a doctor would prescribe diprivan in the first place or a pharmacy filling it for just a patient.

All I have read is there is absolutely no control on this drug, not even in a hospital setting and because it isn't a controlled substance it sits right among the gauze and band aids on the hospital shelves.

imo

[Firehead11]

Being obtuse never gets anyone anywhere.

The DEA confirms that Murray never ordered/purchased/received any diprivan with his DEA number. And the DEA can figure it out, even if posters can't.

Ummm, I don't have a DEA number........BUT I found one site that I could order this drug.

[BOZGAL2]

Really? So doctors can prescribe diprivan for their patients and they just go by the drug store like usual and pick it up??:w00t:

Not that I've ever heard of. The DR and RN I have asked say
ABSOLUTELY NOT. JMO

[impartial]

I just found a place online that I can order Propofol:

Diprivan - 10mg/ml Emulsion 50ml Vial
Quantity Our Price
1 vial $25.99
3 vials $65.97
4 vials $87.96
5 vials $109.95
6 vials $131.94
other: update price

:scared:


Still need a prescription, even for online ordering:

http://www.abconlinepharmacy.com/ns/customer/product2793-c-p1

[retiredcop]

From your link:

An official at the coroner’s office said a fatal combination of drugs was given to Jackson hours before he died in his rented Los Angeles mansion on June 25. Forensic tests found the powerful anesthetic propofol in Jackson's system along with two sedatives, the official said


First of all this so called unknown official at the coroner's office did not say the coroner has ruled this a homicide. LKL right now is reporting the coroner's office is still saying no comment.

in my opinion

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Wow, I missed that provigil. YIKES. That is straight up speed. It is what is Rxd to ppl with narcolepsy, for petesakes.

So he has to take provigil to get up and going and then that slew of downers to get to sleep and/or get high.

Oh, yeah, the tolerance MJ had was amazing. Just the versed alone would have knocked out huge linebackers.

Thx for noticing the provigil. BTW, nobody in their right mind would ever Rx provigil to a patient that has insomnia. :scared:

Thanks Daniel I did not think they would- it made no sense. And I had no idea it was basically speed. Wow this whole thing is insane!

[VC2]

anaesthesiologist says versed is given daily along with diprivan at the same time.

Which makes sense. Of course its an hospital setting with a trained anaesthesiologist

ETA i cracked up because drew pinsky was trying to say that theyw wouldn't be given together (the addiction specialist) and kept trying to say but that would not be safe and the anaesthesiologist shot him right down. I do get annoyed at him when he pretends to know things he doesn't..he already said he had never heard of propofol addiction ever when it first was mentioned so to hear him spout that giving what is considered protocol for anaesthesia is unsafe ticked me off. glad he was told he was wrong.