8/24 -8/25 - MJ's death has been ruled as a homicide

[Unperson1984]

he wasn't an innocent patient, he was and is the victim of homicide.

Ultimately he was the victim of his own addiction.

[February]

Then he would have been out of luck with the drugs, wouldn't he?

Nope. He would be alive.

[Cindylee]

He wouldn't be an addict of prescription drugs, if a doctor hadnt started the chain. You are right, my bad. No one has to take responsibility anymore, I forgot, it is always someone else that is at fault. That works for me.:rolleyes:

[February]

Ultimately he was the victim of his own addiction.

OK but he didn't inject himself with the fatal dosages.
Murray committed a crime, according to the Official Autopsy report.
You can debate the small points with me, but the report still stands.

[Cindylee]

Nope. He would be alive. I hardly think so. He would have found someone else, and it just might have taken a little longer. But, death from drugs would have found him.

[Stellagant]

Ultimately he was the victim of his own addiction.

According to the ME, he was the victim of a homicide. Jackson didn't overdose himself.

[Cindylee]

OK but he didn't inject himself with the fatal dosages.
Murray committed a crime, according to the Official Autopsy report.
You can debate the small points with me, but the report still stands. And Murray will pay for it. He already has.

[Cindylee]

According to the ME, he was the victim of a homicide. Jackson didn't overdose himself.
He asked to be administered the drugs. He did overdose himself, with the help of Murray.

[Stellagant]

I hardly think so. He would have found someone else, and it just might have taken a little longer. But, death from drugs would have found him.

You don't know that to be true. Jackson died of an overdose of legal drugs dispensed by a licensed doctor.

[daniel green]

According to the ME, he was the victim of a homicide. Jackson didn't overdose himself.

Pls do link that statement by the ME.

TIA

[February]

According to the ME, he was the victim of a homicide. Jackson didn't overdose himself.


Precisely. Michael was murdered. This is a fact.

[Stellagant]

He asked to be administered the drugs. He did overdose himself, with the help of Murray.

Jackson didn't ask to be administered the cocktail of drugs Murray gave to him. And Jackson certainly didn't dictate dosage. That was all Murray's idea because he feared Jackson was getting addicted to the propofol.

[Unperson1984]

OK but he didn't inject himself with the fatal dosages.
Murray committed a crime, according to the Official Autopsy report.
You can debate the small points with me, but the report still stands.

Have you read the Official Autopsy Report? Or like the rest of us only heard rumors from unnamed sources?

To date, Murray has not been charged with a crime. Perhaps he will be, perhaps not.

[Cindylee]

You don't know that to be true. Jackson died of an overdose of legal drugs dispensed by a licensed doctor. Oh I think the law of averages was on the side of MJ dieing young of drugs. He had been doing it for years. Fact. He has had many Dr. that were willing to give him the drugs he wanted. If not Murray, it would have been someone else. He had been Dr. shopping before Murray came on the scene.

[Stellagant]

Pls do link that statement by the ME.

TIA

You posted the link to the AP story. Or do you think the unnamed official is a liar?

[Cindylee]

Jackson didn't ask to be administered the cocktail of drugs Murray gave to him. And Jackson certainly didn't dictate dosage. That was all Murray's idea because he feared Jackson was getting addicted to the propofol.
How in the world do you know that? MJ was very aware of medication, and what he was taking. You don't do those kind of drugs for years and not know about them.
Oh but yes, I forgot he was really a child.

[Unperson1984]

Jackson didn't ask to be administered the cocktail of drugs Murray gave to him. And Jackson certainly didn't dictate dosage. That was all Murray's idea because he feared Jackson was getting addicted to the propofol.

We don't really know what else MJ asked for, we do know he asked for the Diprivan. Let's not pretend MJ didn't know a great deal about the drugs he took.

[Stellagant]

Oh I think the law of averages was on the side of MJ dieing young of drugs. He had been doing it for years. Fact. He has had many Dr. that were willing to give him the drugs he wanted. If not Murray, it would have been someone else. He had been Dr. shopping before Murray came on the scene.

Michael Jackson didn't administer the drugs to himself and the drugs were legal. He'd still be alive if he had been administered correct dosages. :rolleyes:

[Stellagant]

We don't really know what else MJ asked for, we do know he asked for the Diprivan. Let's not pretend MJ didn't know a great deal about the drugs he took.

Murray claims MJ asked for the Diprivan but I don't know if he is telling the truth. I find it pretty incredible MJ was able to ask for anything at that point in time after being given all the other drugs.

[February]

Have you read the Official Autopsy Report? Or like the rest of us only heard rumors from unnamed sources?

To date, Murray has not been charged with a crime. Perhaps he will be, perhaps not.


Oh, trust me. He will be charged. I'm sure LE officials do not waste tax payer monies raiding warehouses, offices and towing the car of an innocent person.
btw, where exactly was Murray when they towed his car? Apparently he had escaped from the premises before the police arrived.
Did he even bother to accompany his patient to the hospital?
Just wondering.

[impartial]

Precisely. Michael was murdered. This is a fact.


Murdered?

Did I miss something?

The only thing I've seen is a search warrant, which contained all hearsay, and based on that hearsay, the declarant thought there was probable cause for the warrant based on a possible charge of manslaughter. The hearsay also alluded to the coronor indicating homicide.

Where does MJ was murdered come from?

imo

[Cindylee]

Michael Jackson didn't administer the drugs to himself and the drugs were legal. He'd still be alive if he had been administered correct dosages. :rolleyes:

When Stellagant are you going to get it that I DO hold the Dr. responsible. But, Mj, as much as some would like to claim he was a child in a man's body, and didn't know what he was doing, and everything he did was innocent.....knew exactly what he was taking, knew the risks, and asked the Dr. for the medications anyway. The man was asking to die....and he did. If it wasn't Murray, it would have been someone else....unless he finally went into rehab and got himself under control. So, without Murray, he might have lived a bit longer, but IMO it wouldn't have been much longer. :rolleyes: back at ya.

[Unperson1984]

Oh, trust me. He will be charged. I'm sure LE officials do not waste tax payer monies raiding warehouses, offices and towing the car of an innocent person.
btw, where exactly was Murray when they towed his car? Apparently he had escaped from the premises before the police arrived.
Did he even bother to accompany his patient to the hospital?
Just wondering.

Yes, he did.

[impartial]

Its the logical conclusion.


Logical?

okie dokie.

[Unperson1984]

Murray claims MJ asked for the Diprivan but I don't know if he is telling the truth. I find it pretty incredible MJ was able to ask for anything at that point in time after being given all the other drugs.

How do you explain at least two other health care professionals who have stated MJ asked them for Diprivan? Did they all make it up?

[daniel green]

snipped
Did he even bother to accompany his patient to the hospital?
Just wondering.

Yes, he did, in fact, accompany EMT to the hospital. And, as per the Affidavit, was who told the Jackson family about MJ's death. At the hospital.

[Stellagant]

How do you explain at least two other health care professionals who have stated MJ asked them for Diprivan? Did they all make it up?

I'm referring to Murray's comments about the drugs he administered to Jackson the day of his death that appears in the LA Times story posted upthread.

[February]

Yes, he did.


You sure?
We've learned law enforcement is looking for a doctor who lived at Michael Jackson's home -- and the doctor is nowhere to be found.

Law enforcement sources tell us a BMW belonging to the doctor was towed from Jackson's home last night.

Cops are looking to interview the doc.

A law enforcement source says the doctor gave Jackson an injection before he died.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-doctor-morphene-demerol-lapd-overdose/

[Cindylee]

Logical?

okie dokie.

Logical..........:lol::lol:

[February]

Murdered?

Did I miss something?

The only thing I've seen is a search warrant, which contained all hearsay, and based on that hearsay, the declarant thought there was probable cause for the warrant based on a possible charge of manslaughter. The hearsay also alluded to the coronor indicating homicide.

Where does MJ was murdered come from?

imo
Coroners report said MJ is a victim of Homicide.


hom⋅i⋅cide
  /ˈhɒməˌsaɪd, ˈhoʊmə-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hom-uh-sahyd, hoh-muh-] Show IPA
Use homicide in a Sentence
–noun
1. the killing of one human being by another.
2. a person who kills another; murderer.

[Cindylee]

I'm referring to Murray's comments about the drugs he administered to Jackson the day of his death that appears in the LA Times story posted upthread.
And according to Murray, MJ couldn't sleep. Do you think that the drugs were shoved down his throat? OR given IV without MJ knowing what he was taking? Drug addicts know what they are taking. He was awake.

[Unperson1984]

You sure?
We've learned law enforcement is looking for a doctor who lived at Michael Jackson's home -- and the doctor is nowhere to be found.

Law enforcement sources tell us a BMW belonging to the doctor was towed from Jackson's home last night.

Cops are looking to interview the doc.

A law enforcement source says the doctor gave Jackson an injection before he died.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/26/michael-jackson-doctor-morphene-demerol-lapd-overdose/

Quite sure.

[Stellagant]

You make a good point. The more one thinks about it, the worse it looks for Dr Death.

There is no excuse for his actions. He claims Jackson begged for the drug but then admitted Jackson fell asleep without the propofol a few nights earlier. He's not credible.

[annalyzer]

[url]
It says MJ was very thin and had bedsores. :scared:



He still had bedsores on him that he supposedly got back in 2005? :confused:

[Unperson1984]

I'm referring to Murray's comments about the drugs he administered to Jackson the day of his death that appears in the LA Times story posted upthread.

If the other drugs had put MJ to sleep there wouldn't have been a need for diprivan, which seemed to be MJ's drug of choice.

[February]

Quite sure.

I like you Unperson, it's nice to debate with you.

But I prefer links. :wink: when you are supporting a questionable statement.

[Cindylee]

There is no excuse for his actions. He claims Jackson begged for the drug but then admitted Jackson fell asleep without the propofol a few nights earlier. He's not credible.

Maybe the other drugs worked the other nights and didn't work the night he ended up giving the diproval. Why would that not be credible?

[Unperson1984]

I like you unperson, it's nice to debate with you.

But I prefer links. :wink:

Have you read the search warrant affidavit?

[LordMisRule]

Yes. It's a safe drug when administered correctly. That's why he hired Dr. Murray.

What??! Dr. Murray is NOT an anesthesiologist. The house was NOT a hospital setting. He hired Dr. Murray because Dr. Murray would give MJ whatever MJ demanded.

[Stellagant]

If the other drugs had put MJ to sleep there wouldn't have been a need for diprivan, which seemed to be MJ's drug of choice.

I don't know that there was a "need" for diprivan or that Jackson begged for it. I don't believe everything Murray says is the truth. Telling cops that Jackson "begged for it" is a way to place blame on Jackson, just as some of you are trying to do.

[February]

OK what do bedsores on a person's body have to do with a doctor injecting him with a Deadly Dosage?
Bedsores are not life threatening.
Criminal doctors are.

[Cindylee]

I am putting this here because it seems to be the Dr. thread.

From TMZ

Jackson Doc Reaches Out to President Obama

Posted Aug 25th 2009 1:45AM by TMZ Staff

One of the doctors assisting the LAPD in Michael Jackson's death investigation has fired off a letter to President Barack Obama -- the topic ... to make it tougher for people to obtain "controlled medication."



In the letter, Dr. Susan Essien Etok -- the doc who claims Michael offered her £500,000 to supply him with drugs -- urges the President to consider "harsher punitive measures" for "unethical Doctors" who are willing to hand out strong drugs to anyone with the right amount of money.

Etok also says "no individual Doctor is responsible for Michael's death," then compares the singer's passing to that of Elvis Presley, Heath Ledger and Anna Nicole Smith -- all of whom died with drug cocktails in their system.

See Also

[Unperson1984]

I don't know that there was a "need" for diprivan or that Jackson begged for it. I don't believe everything Murray says is the truth. Telling cops that Jackson "begged for it" is a way to place blame on Jackson, just as some of you are trying to do.

There's enough blame to go around.

Goodnight all!

[Stellagant]

What??! Dr. Murray is NOT an anesthesiologist. The house was NOT a hospital setting.

The drug doesn't require it be administered by an anesthesiologist only in a hospital setting. It's safe when given in correct dosages.

[Cindylee]

I don't know that there was a "need" for diprivan or that Jackson begged for it. I don't believe everything Murray says is the truth. Telling cops that Jackson "begged for it" is a way to place blame on Jackson, just as some of you are trying to do.

Let me ask you this.........how are you invested in Mj that you couldn't believe that he would beg for a drug that he was addicted to.

[Cindylee]

The drug doesn't require it be administered by an anesthesiologist only in a hospital setting. It's safe when given in correct dosages. No it is not safe without the proper equipment and monitoring.

[February]

Let me ask you this.........how are you invested in Mj that you couldn't believe that he would beg for a drug that he was addicted to.


An investment in the Truth is the best investment one can make.

[Stellagant]

OK what do bedsores on a person's body have to do with a doctor injecting him with a Deadly Dosage?
Bedsores are not life threatening.
Criminal doctors are.

They're not life threatening unless they get infected. Can also be quite painful and a reason Jackson couldn't get to sleep. Bedsores are most likely part of his autoimmune disease.

[Stellagant]

No it is not safe without the proper equipment and monitoring.

Jackson died from an OVERDOSE of the drug. He was being monitored by a doctor but there was no way to save him. Hello?

[Cindylee]

An investment in the Truth is the best investment one can make. And the truth is that Mj was an addict and addicts want their drugs. However they can get them. No different than the street addict. He just had the money to pay for a Dr. to get them for him, and administer them.

[February]

Jackson died from an OVERDOSE of the drug. He was being monitored by a doctor but there was no way to save him. Hello?

Well not when the "doctor' is on his cell phone for 47 minutes after the patient expires.
Explain that.

[Stellagant]

Let me ask you this.........how are you invested in Mj that you couldn't believe that he would beg for a drug that he was addicted to.

I've not seen any proof Jackson was addicted to the drug. His doctor said he didn't give it to Jackson a few nights earlier and he fell asleep without it. Doesn't sound like an addict.

The doctor said Jackson begged for the drug but that's an incredibly self-serving statement for the doctor to blame the patient rather than admit he gave him an overdose.

[Cindylee]

Jackson died from an OVERDOSE of the drug. He was being monitored by a doctor but there was no way to save him. Hello?He wasn't monitored. Did he have an EKG hooked up...did he have a blood pressure hooked up.....did he have intubation equipment available in case it was needed...(which it was) he was not being monitored. No there was no was to save him. The equipment was not there to save him.

[Cindylee]

I've not seen any proof Jackson was addicted to the drug. His doctor said he didn't give it to Jackson a few nights earlier and he fell asleep without it. Doesn't sound like an addict.

The doctor said Jackson begged for the drug but that's an incredibly self-serving statement for the doctor to blame the patient rather than admit he gave him an overdose. He had been taking it for years. It was given to him on the last tour he went on. Do you read the threads?

[Stellagant]

Well not when the "doctor' is on his cell phone for 47 minutes after the patient expires.
Explain that.

I'd like an explanation. I do wonder if the overdose was intentional and that's why Murray dragged his feet. Did Jackson fire him? If he was trying to wean Jackson from the drug, then there would be no need for Jackson to keep him on the payroll.

[impartial]

He wasn't monitored. Did he have an EKG hooked up...did he have a blood pressure hooked up.....did he have intubation equipment available in case it was needed...(which it was) he was not being monitored. No there was no was to save him. The equipment was not there to save him.


And sometimes even with the equipment they can't be saved.

The truth is, the synergistic affects of multiple drugs, even given in correct doses, can cause death. Anesthetics have a risk of death every time they are given ... even the ones dentists use.

imo

[February]

I've not seen any proof Jackson was addicted to the drug. His doctor said he didn't give it to Jackson a few nights earlier and he fell asleep without it. Doesn't sound like an addict.

The doctor said Jackson begged for the drug but that's an incredibly self-serving statement for the doctor to blame the patient rather than admit he gave him an overdose.


Consider the source. The doctor is a liar and according the the autopsy report a murderer.
His character ( for lack of a better word) has demonstrated his constant behavior to run away from responsibility.
Ask his ex wife and his children and the child support agency.

[Stellagant]

I think he couldn't sleep because dr death provided his patient with speed to assure rehearsal would go as planned. As distasteful as Joe Jackson might come off, I wouldn't so quickly discount his theory that his son was being controlled by people who had something to gain. Speed to bring him to life, and propofal to put him to sleep.

I don't quickly discount that theory at all. Especially when his promoters quickly pointed out that drug overdose was covered under his mega insurance policy.

[Stellagant]

Consider the source. The doctor is a liar and according the the autopsy report a murderer.
His character ( for lack of a better word) has demonstrated his constant behavior to run away from responsibility.
Ask his ex wife and his children and the child support agency.

Jackson was his meal ticket. But, if he was trying to wean Jackson off the drug as he claims, he was eliminating his own job. I agree, he's a liar.

[Cindylee]

And sometimes even with the equipment they can't be saved.

The truth is, the synergistic affects of multiple drugs, even given in correct doses, can cause death. Anesthetics have a risk of death every time they are given ... even the ones dentists use.

imo

That is true. But, for people to try to put ALL of the blame on these Dr.'s is just insane. I don't hold any of these type of Dr.'s in a good light, and I think this Dr. shopping and paying for drugs from these Dr. is a crime, and I hope that they are all put out of business, and if indicated, put in jail. I hope it is a lesson to all of the other Doc's out there that there will be zero tolerance for this kind of thing.

[Stellagant]

His dead cold body suggests not.

I have to wonder if the overdose was intentional. Every other night, he was monitored. How coincidental that not only did he die from a lethal drug combo, his physician admits he also stepped out of the room.

[February]

That is true. But, for people to try to put ALL of the blame on these Dr.'s is just insane. I don't hold any of these type of Dr.'s in a good light, and I think this Dr. shopping and paying for drugs from these Dr. is a crime, and I hope that they are all put out of business, and if indicated, put in jail. I hope it is a lesson to all of the other Doc's out there that there will be zero tolerance for this kind of thing.


I agree. And it took Michael to 'Make A Change' even in death.

[LordMisRule]

The drug doesn't require it be administered by an anesthesiologist only in a hospital setting. It's safe when given in correct dosages.

It's NOT safe when given by somebody who not only does not know how to properly administer CPR, but somebody who does not have the proper equipment (ekg, defibrillator). For Pete's sake, the drug is an anesthetic, who better than an anesthesiologist would know about it and the affects of this drug in combination with other drugs to a patient. You ask any reputable anesthesiologist (heck, any reputable physician), and they would have never, ever administered this drug without the proper equipment, the proper medical setting. Has any well respected physician or anesthesiologist come forward in support of Conrad Murray? None, none at all. MJ had asked multiple people to administer diprivan to him, they refused. He finally found somebody who was greedy enough to give him what he wanted.

[February]

It's NOT safe when given by somebody who not only does not know how to properly administer CPR, but somebody who does not have the proper equipment (ekg, defibrillator). For Pete's sake, the drug is an anesthetic, who better than an anesthesiologist would know about it and the affects of this drug in combination with other drugs to a patient. You ask any reputable anesthesiologist (heck, any reputable physician), and they would have never, ever administered this drug without the proper equipment, the proper medical setting. Has any well respected physician or anesthesiologist come forward in support of Conrad Murray? None, none at all. MJ had asked multiple people to administer diprivan to him, they refused. He finally found somebody who was greedy enough to give him what he wanted.

Not One doctor has stepped up to support Murray.
Doctors are a unified community, but not this time! .

[LordMisRule]

I've not seen any proof Jackson was addicted to the drug. His doctor said he didn't give it to Jackson a few nights earlier and he fell asleep without it. Doesn't sound like an addict.

The doctor said Jackson begged for the drug but that's an incredibly self-serving statement for the doctor to blame the patient rather than admit he gave him an overdose.

If you ask more than one person for a certain type of drug to "sleep", and offer thousands of dollars for it, what do you call that?! You cannot ignore the fact that Michael Jackson was an addict. If he was addicted to other drugs (his own family even staged an intervention), it's not difficult to believe that he was addicted to diprivan.

[February]

If you ask more than one person for a certain type of drug to "sleep", and offer thousands of dollars for it, what do you call that?! You cannot ignore the fact that Michael Jackson was an addict. If he was addicted to other drugs (his own family even staged an intervention), it's not difficult to believe that he was addicted to diprivan.


I call it a doctor who is a legal drug dealer.

And, there is no proof his family ever staged an intervention.
More media hype, imo.

[sallemae]

And the truth is that Mj was an addict and addicts want their drugs. However they can get them. No different than the street addict. He just had the money to pay for a Dr. to get them for him, and administer them.


I won't deny that he abused drugs, but really I've never known a drug addict to want a drug and then sleep thru the high!

The enphasis on him being a drug addict and wanting drugs, then just to sleep is a bit bizarre, Any drug addict would tell you that. imo

[LordMisRule]

I call it a doctor who is a legal drug dealer.

And, there is no proof his family ever staged an intervention.
More media hype, imo.

But February, you do not believe Tito Jackson or Miko Brando? Multiple people have come forward to say that MJ asked them for drugs. Family and friends of Michael Jackson want his image to live on untarnished, why would these people and others come forward with this if it wasn't true?

[sallemae]

He had been taking it for years. It was given to him on the last tour he went on. Do you read the threads?


When was his last tour?

[LordMisRule]

I'm seriously beginning to think this was an intentional murder, and that Dr. Tohme, and AEG might not be the innocent bystanders they promote themselves to be.

The question here is: was Michael Jackson worth more dead than alive? Why kill the golden goose? Think about the amount of promotional material and merchandise they could have sold had MJ lived to go on with the tours. Dr. Murray would have had to have been in cahoots with this team. Don't you think the good doctor would have rolled over by now and started naming names? He knows he's going down, it would be logical to not want to be the only one to take the blame.

[puppies]

Well not when the "doctor' is on his cell phone for 47 minutes after the patient expires.
Explain that.

Exactly.And if I understand correctly the doc DID lie about not purchasing that stuff.