Release of Lockerbie bomber.

[IcyLogic]

Sorry if there's another thread along these lines, I did search it and got nothing.


The convicted bomber of Flight 103 in 1988, has been released on compassionate grounds due to terminal cancer. He is expected to live less than 3 months.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=8371442


There seems to be an awful lot of fury about this decision here in the US. Personally I don't see anything wrong in letting this person die in his homeland.

[cassidy]

Sorry if there's another thread along these lines, I did search it and got nothing.


The convicted bomber of Flight 103 in 1988, has been released on compassionate grounds due to terminal cancer. He is expected to live less than 3 months.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=8371442


There seems to be an awful lot of fury about this decision here in the US. Personally I don't see anything wrong in letting this person die in his homeland.


I do. He killed a lot of people. Some didn't even have the chance to grow up, let alone die in their homeland. He was cheered as a hero in Libia. :cursing:

[IcyLogic]

I do. He killed a lot of people. Some didn't even have the chance to grow up, let alone die in their homeland. He was cheered as a hero in Libia. :cursing:


What Libya does is irrelevant. Our compassion is what separates us from the terrorists. If we stop showing it, we become no better than them. This person will be dead inside 3 months. As far as punishment goes he is paying the ultimate price.

All those cheering him in Libya know down inside that their own country would never show anything like this kind of compassion.
Let them hail him as a hero, each time they do they are admitting a western country showed human decency to a mass killer from their country.

[imajean]

Icy, you have got to be kidding????? We should show him compassion???? How much compassion did he have when he killed all those people??? He should have been strung up and left to die.

He is a terrorist and letting him loose shows a weakness for strong justice. The only way he should have gotten out is in a body bag. imo

[GMTminus6]

Icy, you have got to be kidding????? We should show him compassion???? How much compassion did he have when he killed all those people??? He should have been strung up and left to die.

He is a terrorist and letting him loose shows a weakness for strong justice. The only way he should have gotten out is in a body bag. imoAbsotively. I couldn't agree more!

[Citygirl]

Icy, you have got to be kidding????? We should show him compassion???? How much compassion did he have when he killed all those people??? He should have been strung up and left to die.

He is a terrorist and letting him loose shows a weakness for strong justice. The only way he should have gotten out is in a body bag. imo


I agree with every word you wrote..all those young people will never be able to fulfill their potential..all the innocent people that deserved justice..all the parents that will never be able to say goodbye to their loved ones..
why is this guy so special..and what does this do for the image of Scotland to the world..
This was not justice. :cursing:

[Rucky*Ron]

Are there no prisons in his "homeland" he can rot in?
8 years for 200+ deaths... Great message to send the terrorists.

OT: I see on CNN Bernie Madoff says he has cancer too.... <groan>
He next to be released?

[Spyder88]

:cursing: Unfortunately, there are simply no words to accurately express my feelings about this fiasco. Argh!

That miserable excuse of a human being doesn't deserve to be buried anywhere except maybe the bottom of a pig pen, in the middle of nowhere, as far from his beloved homeland as possible.

Quite frankly, I don't think he deserved to ever see the light of day. :mad:

Compassion has nothing to do with it, either. It's about sending the right message to those enemies who choose to terrorize and kill innocent people. No, I don't think people like this understand "compassion". They view it as weakness and strike, again.

MVHO

[IcyLogic]

Icy, you have got to be kidding????? We should show him compassion???? How much compassion did he have when he killed all those people??? He should have been strung up and left to die.

He is a terrorist and letting him loose shows a weakness for strong justice. The only way he should have gotten out is in a body bag. imo

Once again, how we behave, is what makes us different from the terrorists. He had no compassion, killed indiscriminately and without mercy.

He will die within the next 3 months, keeping him in jail serves no purpose under those circumstances. Releasing him to die in his homeland, is an act of mercy we show to OURSELVES. We do it not for him, but to confirm to ourselves and everyone else, who and what we are.

[Mandysmom]

Sorry if there's another thread along these lines, I did search it and got nothing.


The convicted bomber of Flight 103 in 1988, has been released on compassionate grounds due to terminal cancer. He is expected to live less than 3 months.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=8371442


There seems to be an awful lot of fury about this decision here in the US. Personally I don't see anything wrong in letting this person die in his homeland. Right, just as he let his victims die in their homeland. :cursing:

[GMTminus6]

Right, just as he let his victims die in their homeland. :cursing:If I remember correctly, most of the vics were from New York.

[MsBondJamesBond]

This action has opened a wound for hundreds, thousands of surviving loved ones. Didn't 270 people die? Think how many people loved each one of them. Didn't I read that he was only convicted of this crime sometime after the year 2000? How long did he actually serve? Not long at all.

I thought that I heard that the Scottish official who made the decision claimed that a majority of the population approved of the decision. Then I heard it countered that 90% of the residents of Scotland disapproved.

The Libyans don't even believe he was guilty so they are not going to see the West as having more compassion than they do as someone upthread asserted. Oh, I reviewed the thread. It was the OP, Icy Logic, who claims that,

"All those cheering him in Libya know down inside that their own country would never show anything like this kind of compassion.
Let them hail him as a hero, each time they do they are admitting a western country showed human decency to a mass killer from their country."

Again, I disagree. They just see it as a victory for their people, their country.

[bearwds]

I would invite the immediate relatives of the hundreds of victims to escort him to Liberia. Send him on a well deserved reality tour.


bear

[openminded]

I don't believe that Scotland releases everyone who is dying (and I'm not convinced this guy really is but time will tell).

So my vote for the real reason goes to OIL, OIL, OIL.

[CelticDawn]

I am fairly sure this was some kind of a back room commerce-related deal between Scotland and Libya.

People are calling for the boycot of scottish goods, which I don't know how effective that would be, but LIBYA WELCOMED HIM AS A HERO. THAT IN ITSELF tells of the STILL EXISTING attitude of Libya: that country's true nature.

trade embargos immigration bans are in order.

[jaxback]

What Libya does is irrelevant. Our compassion is what separates us from the terrorists. If we stop showing it, we become no better than them. This person will be dead inside 3 months. As far as punishment goes he is paying the ultimate price.

All those cheering him in Libya know down inside that their own country would never show anything like this kind of compassion.
Let them hail him as a hero, each time they do they are admitting a western country showed human decency to a mass killer from their country.

What he is doing is nothing different than any human on the planet: he's dying. To glamorize it as "the ultimate price" is insulting to everyone who lives and dies without killing a few hundred people before they go.

Also, your attitude about compassion seems very ivory tower to me. In the real world of Libya, they aren't admitting anything when they hail him as a hero except that they see him as a hero - and they see us as suckers. jmo

[Rucky*Ron]

<<< Snipped >>>


Didn't I read that he was only convicted of this crime sometime after the year 2000? How long did he actually serve? Not long at all.



8 years

[cassidy]

I don't believe that Scotland releases everyone who is dying (and I'm not convinced this guy really is but time will tell).

So my vote for the real reason goes to OIL, OIL, OIL.

Yeppers :(

[IcyLogic]

Our justice system isn't about revenge, no matter how much most of you would like it to be, its about punishment, and where necessary mercy.

Keeping Megrahi behind bars whilst he dies of cancer neither serves justice nor brings back any of those he was sentenced for killing.

What mercy does do, is demonstrate we have not been brutalized or desensitized by any acts of terror perpetrated against us. I'm disheartened that not a single post (barring mine) thus far on this thread, believes we should temper justice with mercy.

Regardless of this mans crimes, we, as (mostly) decent humans should allow him to die with at least a modicum of dignity.

I'll not bother raising the possibility that his trial was flawed. I can see by the baying for blood here that it will not even be entertained. But if any open-minded person wants to check, here is a link to the statement by the official UN observer to the trial.

http://i-p-o.org/nr-lockerbie-14Oct05.htm

Were this a criminal case in the US, you guys would be all over the issues he raises. But apparently not for this man.

Compassion is like a muscle, using it makes it, and us, stronger. Lack of use simply makes it wither away. Its very easy to be compassionate to friends, relatives and the weak and helpless. Not so easy to be compassionate to the strong and cruel. But then thats the real test of compassion isn't it?

[incidentally]

Our justice system isn't about revenge, no matter how much most of you would like it to be, its about punishment, and where necessary mercy.

Keeping Megrahi behind bars whilst he dies of cancer neither serves justice nor brings back any of those he was sentenced for killing.

What mercy does do, is demonstrate we have not been brutalized or desensitized by any acts of terror perpetrated against us. I'm disheartened that not a single post (barring mine) thus far on this thread, believes we should temper justice with mercy.

Regardless of this mans crimes, we, as (mostly) decent humans should allow him to die with at least a modicum of dignity.

I'll not bother raising the possibility that his trial was flawed. I can see by the baying for blood here that it will not even be entertained. But if any open-minded person wants to check, here is a link to the statement by the official UN observer to the trial.

http://i-p-o.org/nr-lockerbie-14Oct05.htm

Were this a criminal case in the US, you guys would be all over the issues he raises. But apparently not for this man.

Compassion is like a muscle, using it makes it, and us, stronger. Lack of use simply makes it wither away. Its very easy to be compassionate to friends, relatives and the weak and helpless. Not so easy to be compassionate to the strong and cruel. But then thats the real test of compassion isn't it?

Well said, IcyLogic. I agree.

[momof6]

I have lots of compassion........But it is for the families of the victims. They are the ones suffering.

[IcyLogic]

I have lots of compassion........But it is for the families of the victims. They are the ones suffering.

If some of the families can find compassion for this man, I'm pretty sure I can too.

[IcyLogic]

Wonderful rant by sci fi author Charles Stross. He sums up my feelings pretty well. Caution, his anger is reflected in some of the language.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/08/merciless.html

[jimbob]

The murder of hundreds of innocent people, decades ago in a foreign country, is once again in the news. An act of brutality that made headlines around the world has again surfaced in our consciousness. And the only person ever convicted of this crime against humanity, although sentenced to life in prison, is a free man making news once more.

Ahh..sound familiar eh ? Id like those baying loudest for blood to read that and then the link,and know the world sees a hypocrite.

http://www.startribune.com/yourvoices/54623407.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUncacyi8cyaiUiD3aPc:_ Yyc:aUU

[Lavinia]

Our justice system isn't about revenge, no matter how much most of you would like it to be, its about punishment, and where necessary mercy.

Keeping Megrahi behind bars whilst he dies of cancer neither serves justice nor brings back any of those he was sentenced for killing.

What mercy does do, is demonstrate we have not been brutalized or desensitized by any acts of terror perpetrated against us. I'm disheartened that not a single post (barring mine) thus far on this thread, believes we should temper justice with mercy.

Regardless of this mans crimes, we, as (mostly) decent humans should allow him to die with at least a modicum of dignity.

I'll not bother raising the possibility that his trial was flawed. I can see by the baying for blood here that it will not even be entertained. But if any open-minded person wants to check, here is a link to the statement by the official UN observer to the trial.

http://i-p-o.org/nr-lockerbie-14Oct05.htm

Were this a criminal case in the US, you guys would be all over the issues he raises. But apparently not for this man.

Compassion is like a muscle, using it makes it, and us, stronger. Lack of use simply makes it wither away. Its very easy to be compassionate to friends, relatives and the weak and helpless. Not so easy to be compassionate to the strong and cruel. But then thats the real test of compassion isn't it?

Respectfully, I think you are confusing compassion and *privilege*, IMO. I think he was shown compassion that he was able to have his life end by its natural means and I would bet my last dime he was provided medical care and palliative relief to ease his cancer burden as much as possible on someone other than Libya's dime. It is hardly uncompassionate to hold someone on a piece of land that is not of the criminal's choice at the time of their death. What if he had died 2 years ago of a sudden heart attack. Should we have housed him in Libya all this time "just in case"?

I think I'm a very compassionate person, but too bad, so sad, he didn't shouldn't get a *privilege*, IMO.

[Spyder88]

My husband's entire family died of cancer. First, his sister. Then his mother. Then his brother. None of them did anything to deserve such a horrible death, but they died in agony anyway. :shrug: As will this terrorist...but he dies a free man, which, IMVHO, is just, plain wrong. Home he goes, just like nothing happened. How quaint.

I'm sorry if I'm not "compassionate" enough for some people when it comes to my feelings about this particular terrorist.

My compassion actually comes into play pretty hard when I think of the surviving families and friends. So much for "justice tempered with mercy" for them. :rolleyes: I think how I'd feel if it were my family member and his going free wouldn't sit real well for me.

Now, what??? Now, we wait for another attack by another freaky, terrorist who's willing to die or go to prison for his noble cause, because there's little to deter him if he gets caught. :shrug:

[IcyLogic]

Some of the surviving families have no problem with Megrahi being returned home to die.

Nothing done to this man can bring back any of those who died on flight 103. He is going to die in a short time, letting him return home to do that with his family harms no-one beyond that which they have already suffered.

Whether or not his deeply flawed guilty verdict will hold up under scrutiny remains to be seen. Should there be doubt raised (and I strongly suspect there will be) then allowing him some small mercy at the end will turn out to be the right thing to have done.

Read the link I posted earlier about problems raised with the evidence in his conviction, then tell me there isn't enough reasonable doubt to let us give him a few weeks with family before he dies.

[Spyder88]

[QUOTE=IcyLogic;13413674]Some of the surviving families have no problem with Megrahi being returned home to die.

/[QUOTE]

The definative word here, is SOME. If all the survuving familyies had no problem, then fine...I'd concede to their wishes. However, I seriously doubt if even a minority of them agree it's the right thing to do.

Again, let me reiterate. My feelings of compassion are with the victims and their families.

As for doubt being raised regarding this man's trial and subsequent finding of guilt, all I can say is there are very few guilty men in prison. Just ask them.

Should this be an innocent man, then it's a very sad thing, but I'm not about to set murderers free on the off chance they might be innocent. In the meantime, does Charles Manson get an out of jail free card if he gets cancer and has a few months left? After all, it's the compassionate thing to do...

[orangetaffy]

Jack Straw admits cave-in over Libyan Lockerbie bomber demands

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/6114982/Jack-Straw-admits-cave-in-over-Libyan-Lockerbie-bomber-demands.html

"He said the Libyans deserved "something" in return for giving up their nuclear weapons programme but vehemently denied striking a "backdoor deal" over Megrahi. "

"Shortly after the reversal of Britain's stance, a multi-billion pound oil exploration deal between Libya and BP was rubberstamped"

[Lavinia]

I have to admit, I'm not up on the particulars of this guy's case and really don't feel like researching it, frankly, but he has either been found guilty and all that that implies or he was acquitted and all that implies. I don't think it's a good argument to say, (paraphrased) "he needs to be shown more mercy than other prisoners because his case *may* have not been meritorious". It may not have been, but the remedy for that is a new trial. You can't go down the line at the prisons and say, "Okay *you* were found guilty, but the finding was based on shakier evidence than inmate "B", therefore we will allow you to do things differently than all other convicted inmates." "Inmate "B", the evidence against you was stronger than "D's", so you not only have to serve your sentence, but we're going to add on to your sentence. Inmate "C", in "our" estimation, you had a crummy attorney, so you get to have your Mom here for Sunday dinner. every week."

[IcyLogic]

The Scottish courts are independant of the rest of the UK. They are administered by the Scottish parliament, and as such, not under the juristiction of the UK governemnt at all.

The is no evidence of any deal with Libya based on the exchange of Megrahi for oil.

DS: Not sure where you got the idea that Megrahi was the "Mastermind" behind the bombing. I'm not aware that was ever claimed by the prosecution.

The fact that you're trying to include Obama in this, despite his anger and disagreement with the decision to free Megrahi, leads me to think you're simply pursuing your own political agenda, when the issue here is compassion to a dying man.

I have compassion for all the families and loved ones of those who died in the explosion, those who agree and disagree with the decision to free Megrahi. But once again I'll point out that freeing this person to die in his homeland, rather than dying in Scotland, is a simple act of humanitarian kindness,

I should add at this point that he would NOT have died in jail. As death neared he would have been moved to a Hospice outside the jail. Free in effect. His lawyer complained after he was released that it would have been kinder to keep him in Scotland where he would receive top class paliative care, rather than releasing him to Libya where the care is far inferior.

However, he wanted to die with his family and was allowed to do so,

As a secondary issue the evicence in his case raises some strong indications that there was at least reasonable doubt in the conviction.
Enough IMO for a fair justice system to allow him leave to die with his family,

[Spyder88]

*snipped*

However, he wanted to die with his family and was allowed to do so,

As a secondary issue the evicence in his case raises some strong indications that there was at least reasonable doubt in the conviction.
Enough IMO for a fair justice system to allow him leave to die with his family,

I'll bet his victims wanted to die with their families, too. I'll bet there are tons of prisoners who want to get out to die with their families at their sides and someone holding their hand.

Where, exactly, do you think we should draw the line when it comes to the laws set forth? If they're eventually going to be meaningless rhetoric, then why bother? :confused:

Sure, there've been innocent people imprisoned. Nothing is perfect, but the vast majority of people who are found guilty are really just that. I'm not about to agree to let any CONVICTED prisoners free on the off chance they might be innocent and I don't care how much oil is promised.

[IcyLogic]

I'll bet his victims wanted to die with their families, too. I'll bet there are tons of prisoners who want to get out to die with their families at their sides and someone holding their hand.

Where, exactly, do you think we should draw the line when it comes to the laws set forth? If they're eventually going to be meaningless rhetoric, then why bother? :confused:

Sure, there've been innocent people imprisoned. Nothing is perfect, but the vast majority of people who are found guilty are really just that. I'm not about to agree to let any CONVICTED prisoners free on the off chance they might be innocent and I don't care how much oil is promised.

This case followed all the legal precedents under Scottish law. All terminally ill patients are released to outside care units if they are deemed not to be a danger to the public. Megrahi was entitled to the same treatment as every other prisoner in Scotland.

If you can prove a link between an Oil deal and the release of Megrahi I urge you to forward it to the British tabloids who are anxiously seeking that very thing.

[CelticDawn]

although I disagree with the release of this terrorist, I also disagree with the fact that if this man were kept in prison, the people of scotland would have to pay for his care, which is far better than the care he would receive in his homeland of Libya. It is a two edged sword.

If he had remained in prison, Scotland, as a civilised nation of people would be morally obligated to care for this man as they would any other person stricken with an illness despite his crimes. It would go against morality ot allow him to die in pain and suffering. On the other hand, he "allowed" the people on the flight and on the ground no such compassion.