8/24 & 8/25

[desmom]

I am keeping my fingers crossed Judge Strickland makes his rulings today re the motions we heard on Friday.

I really hope we get to see LP and Crew's interviews.

[Kathlb]

Me too desmom! I think that they can testify to some "Bombshells". :biggrin: Also I want the fraud case to go forward.

[desmom]

IMO, M/M wanted Hoover and D. Casey's depos to show the family was not looking for Zanny the Nanny.

If Hoover's video had not come out, I do not believe M/M would have depo'ed the two.

jmo

[Deannalynn]

OH ME TOO, Des! Those will be gold mines I am sure! Don't you find it odd though that M/M wanted Hoover and DCasey's depos for the ZFG civil suit? Um, because they knew they wanted info about where the money was coming in and then Hoover told him all about the crab puff dinner and Lee order Josie's steak there? And Hoover told the story about how they were looking for WHATEVER they were trying to imply about "remains, body" whichever - and that Hoover said Baez told them NOT to call LE if they found Caylee's body? And how they were watching over the Anthony's and all that?

Why didn't M/M want Lenny and Crews depositions, too? If they were supposedly "hired" by the defense (Baez himself) and signed their little agreement about "privacy" - even though it clearly states that would go out the window if they were asked by authorities or subpoenaed to testify? That would make the agreement "null" anyway? If Lenny was such an insider and had all this valuable information, then why didn't M/M depose ALL of them for the civil trial - right alongside GA, CA, LA, and Hoover, too!

NO WONDER DCasey refused!!!! I WOULD TOO - for as long as I could get away from it!!! He can deny all he wants until he is sworn to tell the truth legally - which is what the depo does, right ? Makes it legally admissible in court because it was SWORN to, correct? Silly DCasey - all of this is tied into the beef that has been filed against Baez by Strickland isn't it? Will he ever be made to comply, or is that part of what Strickland is ruling on today?

OK Guys, that's it for FMO for now - I hope the decisions come down today! I thought it was great that the hearings made Tru TV - wonder if this ruling hearing will make it to air there either? Godspeed and play nice posters! I will catch you all later! :closedeyes: Nighters.

Good night/morning FMO...:biggrin:

[Myka]

IMO, M/M wanted Hoover and D. Casey's depos to show the family was not looking for Zanny the Nanny.

If Hoover's video had not come out, I do not believe M/M would have depo'ed the two.

jmo


so much going on in this case.........how was Hoover's video leaked?

[aproudmom]

I am keeping my fingers crossed Judge Strickland makes his rulings today re the motions we heard on Friday.

I really hope we get to see LP and Crew's interviews.

me to..thanks for the new thread Morning everyone..

[aproudmom]

so much going on in this case.........how was Hoover's video leaked?

Hoover IIRC

[Myka]

Hoover IIRC


ok, I remember now

Thanks

[aproudmom]

IMO, M/M wanted Hoover and D. Casey's depos to show the family was not looking for Zanny the Nanny.

If Hoover's video had not come out, I do not believe M/M would have depo'ed the two.

jmo

des did he not put it out there..he being Hoover ..also I would be searching for the real killer if my child was on trial for the death penalty since they seem to say she did not do it..but guess CA said JB and team are doing that..Oh gosh forbid it take anytime away from the Anthony's they have a book to write and teddy bears to pass out they sure don't have time to look for he person that really killed Caylee...yeah right like I ever believe them just like OJ searching for Nicole's killer on the back nine of the golf course

[aproudmom]

ok, I remember now

Thanks

NP I thought he did..heck he videoed them fingerprinting the Anthony's..lol..he likes his cameras I guess

[Scampi]

I am keeping my fingers crossed Judge Strickland makes his rulings today re the motions we heard on Friday.

I really hope we get to see LP and Crew's interviews.

Me too, Des. Baez had no proof of an "oral" agreement, and the written agreement specifically states that Padilla and company were not associated with the defense, so I think at least some of their testimony is coming into court.

I think we also have our proof that there is evidence out there that the DA has kept away from the sunshine laws and these interviews are among them. What else is being kept from the public?

Tracy McLaughlin is going to have critical information, imo.

[desmom]

so much going on in this case.........how was Hoover's video leaked?

The lst news article I can find is dated 12/29.

P.I. Says He Videotaped Area Where Caylee Was Later Found
http://www.wftv.com/news/18377039/detail.html

[cassidy]

Me too, Des. Baez had no proof of an "oral" agreement, and the written agreement specifically states that Padilla and company were not associated with the defense, so I think at least some of their testimony is coming into court.

I think we also have our proof that there is evidence out there that the DA has kept away from the sunshine laws and these interviews are among them. What else is being kept from the public?

Tracy McLaughlin is going to have critical information, imo.

I would think she must or the defense wouldn't be so he**bent on keeping it out.

Good Morning Everyone! :)

[martha]

Good morning everyone, I hope we get some news today and I do mean good news. I have so much I need to do but I will be checking back to see if anything comes from judge s.today. You all have a wonderful day and take care of your self. Justice for CAYLEE is all we want.jmho:wub:

[ish]

Good Morning !! I've been doing some thinking over the weekend and a thought occured to me regarding the check fraud trial. Did AL state that Casey had repaid the bank the money taken from Amy? I know the bank had repaid Amy and that Baez sent a check to BOA to repay them, but for AL to state that the money came from Casey, isn't that an admission of guilt? Who pleads not guilty to something and then repays the money, prior to the trial? Is Casey going to try to say "yes I cashed the checks, but it wasn't stealing"? It just seems strange that
her attorney is, I think admitting, her client's guilt.

As far as Casey's appearance, yeah she looks like crap but I think that is normal after being in jail 10 months with little access to sunlight. As far as her tears, I call BS. She sniffed, her eyes were red but I never saw any tears. She rubs the bottom of her eyes so hard with the tissue I think it is in an attempt to force a tear or two. I'll bet this is the exact thing she did when G&C nailed her on stealing from them, George said in his statement that she "bawled". She's working the public, a few of the talking heads even sounded like they felt sorry for her. I'm saving my sympathy for Caylee, left to rot in the underbrush, like so much trash.

[desmom]

Good Morning !! I've been doing some thinking over the weekend and a thought occured to me regarding the check fraud trial. Did AL state that Casey had repaid the bank the money taken from Amy? I know the bank had repaid Amy and that Baez sent a check to BOA to repay them, but for AL to state that the money came from Casey, isn't that an admission of guilt? Who pleads not guilty to something and then repays the money, prior to the trial? Is Casey going to try to say "yes I cashed the checks, but it wasn't stealing"? It just seems strange that
her attorney is, I think admitting, her client's guilt.

As far as Casey's appearance, yeah she looks like crap but I think that is normal after being in jail 10 months with little access to sunlight. As far as her tears, I call BS. She sniffed, her eyes were red but I never saw any tears. She rubs the bottom of her eyes so hard with the tissue I think it is in an attempt to force a tear or two. I'll bet this is the exact thing she did when G&C nailed her on stealing from them, George said in his statement that she "bawled". She's working the public, a few of the talking heads even sounded like they felt sorry for her. I'm saving my sympathy for Caylee, left to rot in the underbrush, like so much trash.


Katprint gave her legal opinion here re paying the bank and admission of guilt: http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13393622#post13393622

[Sun]

I am keeping my fingers crossed Judge Strickland makes his rulings today re the motions we heard on Friday.

I really hope we get to see LP and Crew's interviews.

Good morning everyone! I'm not expecting Judge SS to have worked throughout his weekend on this case. And it looks like he had a lot of material handed to him in the courtroom on Friday, that he'll need to review before ruling. I'd be happy if he surprised me though!

I watched an old media interview yesterday, this early attorney of Casey's appears to have also disappeared from this case. Very interesting interview.

http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/m/20545668/shocking-new-allegations.htm#q=cindy+anthonyMegyn and Michael Walsh

[ish]

Katprint gave her legal opinion here re paying the bank and admission of guilt: http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13393622#post13393622

Thanks, I missed that post, am still reading the weekend board.

[desmom]

Good morning everyone! I'm not expecting Judge SS to have worked throughout his weekend on this case. And it looks like he had a lot of material handed to him in the courtroom on Friday, that he'll need to review before ruling. I'd be happy if he surprised me though!

I watched an old media interview yesterday, this early attorney of Casey's appears to have also disappeared from this case. Very interesting interview.

http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/m/20545668/shocking-new-allegations.htm#q=cindy+anthonyMegyn and Michael Walsh

Why the heck not? Doesn't he realize we are on pins and needles here? :tonguewag:

I can't get the video to play. Is this the transcript? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,395299,00.html TIA

[Sun]

Good Morning !! I've been doing some thinking over the weekend and a thought occured to me regarding the check fraud trial. Did AL state that Casey had repaid the bank the money taken from Amy? I know the bank had repaid Amy and that Baez sent a check to BOA to repay them, but for AL to state that the money came from Casey, isn't that an admission of guilt? Who pleads not guilty to something and then repays the money, prior to the trial? Is Casey going to try to say "yes I cashed the checks, but it wasn't stealing"? It just seems strange that
her attorney is, I think admitting, her client's guilt.

As far as Casey's appearance, yeah she looks like crap but I think that is normal after being in jail 10 months with little access to sunlight. As far as her tears, I call BS. She sniffed, her eyes were red but I never saw any tears. She rubs the bottom of her eyes so hard with the tissue I think it is in an attempt to force a tear or two. I'll bet this is the exact thing she did when G&C nailed her on stealing from them, George said in his statement that she "bawled". She's working the public, a few of the talking heads even sounded like they felt sorry for her. I'm saving my sympathy for Caylee, left to rot in the underbrush, like so much trash.

Kat's opinion in regards to Casey paying off the damages is really good, that desmom posted above.

I have a fairly good idea that Casey's emotional reaction when George was called to testify, is involuntary and not something that Casey really can fully control. No matter how hard she tries to not tearup, sob, or cry, or to show emotion when in the courtroom, this is happening over her wishes. I suspest that in Casey's early years, George was the disciplinarian in that family. I also suspect that while Casey was growing up in that family, she was a daddy's girl. Yet, one thing that she feared the most, was that he would stop loving her when she was bad or did something wrong. This isn't really about George... but about how she feels about her own self. Facing George just is a trigger. (or any boyfriend might also trigger this too).

[Sun]

Why the heck not? Doesn't he realize we are on pins and needles here? :tonguewag:

I can't get the video to play. Is this the transcript? http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,395299,00.html TIA

Yes, that's the transcript. Those FOX videos can be finicky to play.

[desmom]

Yes, that's the transcript. Those FOX videos can be finicky to play.

Thanks. That one is dated 7/31/08. Michael Walsh was on the night before http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,394286,00.html He stated that was the lst day he had met Casey.

[desmom]

Michael Walsh also did: 'Verdict with Dan Abrams' for Wednesday, July 30
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25950531/

It begins about half way down the page. In this interview, Walsh slams Jesse.

jmo

ETA ~ http://www.wesh.com/news/17039556/detail.html reported Baez is working with attorney Mike Walsh, who specializes in appeals.

This could explain why Walsh has disappeared into the sunset.

[sammy62]

I am keeping my fingers crossed Judge Strickland makes his rulings today re the motions we heard on Friday.

I really hope we get to see LP and Crew's interviews.

Hey Des. Do you have a link to hearing Casey had on or around July 28, 2008 to have her bail reduced?

[Sun]

Michael Walsh also did: 'Verdict with Dan Abrams' for Wednesday, July 30
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25950531/

It begins about half way down the page. In this interview, Walsh slams Jesse.

jmo

ETA ~ http://www.wesh.com/news/17039556/detail.html reported Baez is working with attorney Mike Walsh, who specializes in appeals.

This could explain why Walsh has disappeared into the sunset.

I am not sure just when Walsh "went missing" from this case. I do recall that TLenamon did CC him on a letter around the time that TLenamon wrote that document in regards to the death penalty (Nov?).

[desmom]

Hey Des. Do you have a link to hearing Casey had on or around July 28, 2008 to have her bail reduced?

Sorry for the delay. I had to look. I found these news links:

Casey Anthony's Attorney Appeals For Another Bond Hearing
http://www.wftv.com/news/17034577/detail.html

Casey Anthony Won't Get New Bond Hearing
http://www.wftv.com/news/17037646/detail.html

[sammy62]

Sorry for the delay. I had to look. I found these news links:

Casey Anthony's Attorney Appeals For Another Bond Hearing
http://www.wftv.com/news/17034577/detail.html

Casey Anthony Won't Get New Bond Hearing
http://www.wftv.com/news/17037646/detail.html

thanks...and good morning. Your awesome :wub:

[ish]

Kat's opinion in regards to Casey paying off the damages is really good, that desmom posted above.

I have a fairly good idea that Casey's emotional reaction when George was called to testify, is involuntary and not something that Casey really can fully control. No matter how hard she tries to not tearup, sob, or cry, or to show emotion when in the courtroom, this is happening over her wishes. I suspest that in Casey's early years, George was the disciplinarian in that family. I also suspect that while Casey was growing up in that family, she was a daddy's girl. Yet, one thing that she feared the most, was that he would stop loving her when she was bad or did something wrong. This isn't really about George... but about how she feels about her own self. Facing George just is a trigger. (or any boyfriend might also trigger this too).

A daddy's girl? Maybe way back when, but I think George had difficulty when Casey got pregnant. Like a lot of dads, George didn't want to think about his little girl "doing the nasty" and when Casey turns up preggers, well, there's no denying what's she's been up to. I think George then turns cold to Casey and gets judgemental. When George later becomes an adoring grandpa, Casey gets angry and resentful that he is now showering the love that she feels is rightfully hers on Caylee. He rejects Casey for disappointing him but the living proof of his disappointment (Caylee) is the apple of his eye now. Casey turns on George, telling her friends he cheats on Cindy and is a gambler. Her relationship with Cindy has probably always been rocky and the increased tension with George only makes it worse. Caylee is getting love and attention, Casey is being criticized. She tries to get back in the good graces with her "job" and show the parents that she is a successful career woman and single mother but by stealing and lying to them she only makes things worse.

[AnnInOhio]

A daddy's girl? Maybe way back when, but I think George had difficulty when Casey got pregnant. Like a lot of dads, George didn't want to think about his little girl "doing the nasty" and when Casey turns up preggers, well, there's no denying what's she's been up to. I think George then turns cold to Casey and gets judgemental. When George later becomes an adoring grandpa, Casey gets angry and resentful that he is now showering the love that she feels is rightfully hers on Caylee. He rejects Casey for disappointing him but the living proof of his disappointment (Caylee) is the apple of his eye now. Casey turns on George, telling her friends he cheats on Cindy and is a gambler. Her relationship with Cindy has probably always been rocky and the increased tension with George only makes it worse. Caylee is getting love and attention, Casey is being criticized. She tries to get back in the good graces with her "job" and show the parents that she is a successful career woman and single mother but by stealing and lying to them she only makes things worse.

George & Cindy seemed to deny Casey being pregnant way more than any parents I've ever known!

[Sun]

A daddy's girl? Maybe way back when, but I think George had difficulty when Casey got pregnant. Like a lot of dads, George didn't want to think about his little girl "doing the nasty" and when Casey turns up preggers, well, there's no denying what's she's been up to. I think George then turns cold to Casey and gets judgemental. When George later becomes an adoring grandpa, Casey gets angry and resentful that he is now showering the love that she feels is rightfully hers on Caylee. He rejects Casey for disappointing him but the living proof of his disappointment (Caylee) is the apple of his eye now. Casey turns on George, telling her friends he cheats on Cindy and is a gambler. Her relationship with Cindy has probably always been rocky and the increased tension with George only makes it worse. Caylee is getting love and attention, Casey is being criticized. She tries to get back in the good graces with her "job" and show the parents that she is a successful career woman and single mother but by stealing and lying to them she only makes things worse.

We are on nearly on the same wavelength! Daddy's little girl was a long, long time ago, but Casey didn't ever want it to end. Casey's emotions are self-centered and only about herself. You've continued on where I left off.

[Eagleeye]

Katprint gave her legal opinion here re paying the bank and admission of guilt: http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13393622#post13393622

From this quote:

"The payment itself, however, cannot be used as evidence that Casey is guilty of the criminal charges."

I don't understand this logic at all. Why would she pay back the money if she wasn't guilty of theft of money from Amy? Making Amy whole still doesn't negate the fact that Casey stole money from her. I am not going to disagree with Kat because I am not a lawyer but that not being evidence of guilt of the criminal charges makes no sense to me. Making restitution for a crime one commits indicates to me that a crime was committed and should IMO be evidence of guilt. What am I missing here? Kat are you out there? :confused:

[jose]

Did every one quit for the day?

I still can not get into my thick head how KC associated Zanida with the Sawgrass Apts. And how KC knew that ZFG looked at the Apt where she told LE she dropped off Caylee. It's too much of a coincidence, for me anyway. Can anyone explain that to me?

[AnnInOhio]

Did every one quit for the day?

I still can not get into my thick head how KC associated Zanida with the Sawgrass Apts. And how KC knew that ZFG looked at the Apt where she told LE she dropped off Caylee. It's too much of a coincidence, for me anyway. Can anyone explain that to me?

To that end, has anyone ever determined what LE took from Casey's wallet but would not let Lee see when she was first questioned? Has there ever been any mention of how the real Zenaida got to the Sawgrass apartments? My theory is that Casey rifled the real Zenaida's car looking for money while it was parked near Sawgrass while she was looking at the apartments, which I understand are near Casey's boyfriend's apartment. I'd love to know if Casey took some kind of i.d. with Zenaida's name on it, had it in her wallet and if that's what LE took.

[Barbara fl.]

To that end, has anyone ever determined what LE took from Casey's wallet but would not let Lee see when she was first questioned? Has there ever been any mention of how the real Zenaida got to the Sawgrass apartments? My theory is that Casey rifled the real Zenaida's car looking for money while it was parked near Sawgrass while she was looking at the apartments, which I understand are near Casey's boyfriend's apartment. I'd love to know if Casey took some kind of i.d. with Zenaida's name on it, had it in her wallet and if that's what LE took.


The only reason that I wouldn't go along with that, is because what would be the odds of breaking into someones car who would possibly have the same name as the nanny that you made up? The name Zanny had been thrown around by Casey for some time before all this happened...she invented the name back when she was telling Jesse's father that she found a baby sitter for Caylee....

I truly believe that i was just a coincidence that this Zenaida happen to go to the sawgrass apts and the police spottd the name and decided to check her out to clear her for the trial to come....

Just suppose what the defense would have done had they found out later on that a "Zenaida" had registered to look at an apt around the same time that Caylee had gone missing, and didn't check it out....?

[breezie]

Did every one quit for the day?

I still can not get into my thick head how KC associated Zanida with the Sawgrass Apts. And how KC knew that ZFG looked at the Apt where she told LE she dropped off Caylee. It's too much of a coincidence, for me anyway. Can anyone explain that to me?

she had friends there. That's the only connection. Unless Casey tells us, we'll never know the truth of where she got the name/apt number/nanny from.

[Barbara fl.]

Did every one quit for the day?

I still can not get into my thick head how KC associated Zanida with the Sawgrass Apts. And how KC knew that ZFG looked at the Apt where she told LE she dropped off Caylee. It's too much of a coincidence, for me anyway. Can anyone explain that to me?


Well first, her name is not Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales" it is just "Zenaida Gonzales"...and although I have never personally knew a Zenaida, I have been told that it is not that uncommon of a name...Orlando is a highly hispanic area, so it could very well have been a coincidence...I honestly do not believe that it was set to look like this was the Zenaida, Casey is not smart enough to have even thought of figuring that out.....

[Barbara fl.]

From this quote:

"The payment itself, however, cannot be used as evidence that Casey is guilty of the criminal charges."

I don't understand this logic at all. Why would she pay back the money if she wasn't guilty of theft of money from Amy? Making Amy whole still doesn't negate the fact that Casey stole money from her. I am not going to disagree with Kat because I am not a lawyer but that not being evidence of guilt of the criminal charges makes no sense to me. Making restitution for a crime one commits indicates to me that a crime was committed and should IMO be evidence of guilt. What am I missing here? Kat are you out there? :confused:


Good morning Eagleeye,

I believe like you, I would also take it as an admission of guilt...however, (like you said) what sense did it make to pay back the bank, the charges have already be brought....I would think that the court would initiate the restitutation that should be made....for Baez to do this upfront doesn't really make any sense...but then again, what does Baez do that makes any sense?

[breezie]

Good morning Eagleeye,

I believe like you, I would also take it as an admission of guilt...however, (like you said) what sense did it make to pay back the bank, the charges have already be brought....I would think that the court would initiate the restitutation that should be made....for Baez to do this upfront doesn't really make any sense...but then again, what does Baez do that makes any sense?

I think Kat is saying that the law protects idiot defendants and defense attorneys from themselves. Sad to say.

[Eagleeye]

Good morning Eagleeye,

I believe like you, I would also take it as an admission of guilt...however, (like you said) what sense did it make to pay back the bank, the charges have already be brought....I would think that the court would initiate the restitutation that should be made....for Baez to do this upfront doesn't really make any sense...but then again, what does Baez do that makes any sense?

Morning Barb,

You ask a loaded question. IMO if Baez had any sense he would recuse himself from this case and get the hell out of Orlando ASAP. :wink:

[desmom]

Did every one quit for the day?

I still can not get into my thick head how KC associated Zanida with the Sawgrass Apts. And how KC knew that ZFG looked at the Apt where she told LE she dropped off Caylee. It's too much of a coincidence, for me anyway. Can anyone explain that to me?

I think Casey used the name Zanny because it rhymed with nanny or it came from the children's book that was posted on here way back when..."Double Trouble" I think was the name of it.

At sometime in Casey's travels or while surfing myspace/facebook she ran across ZG. ZG could have posted it on her myspace she had looked at Sawgrass or someone mentioned it in a conversation that Casey was a part of her overheard. Zanny the Nanny now had a full name - Zenaida Gonzalez.

Casey threw in the Fernandez so she could tell LE that the ZG that looked at Sawgrass LE uncovered during the investigation was not Caylee's nanny.

jmo

[KittyMom]

I'm hoping the judge gets a decision on the motions soon and we can get this circus on the road.

[Barbara fl.]

Morning Barb,

You ask a loaded question. IMO if Baez had any sense he would recuse himself from this case and get the hell out of Orlando ASAP. :wink:

That's if he had an ounce of sense....This guy would probably have to study for a blood test...Someone also needs to tell him how to try and act professional...everytime the prosecutor says something in court, Baez looks over to one of his counterparts and rolls his eyes with a real stupid grin on his face....With all the publicity that he is getting from this case, I doubt strongly that he will get any business from this...even the stupidest of criminals wouldn't use this guy.....

[AnnInOhio]

The only reason that I wouldn't go along with that, is because what would be the odds of breaking into someones car who would possibly have the same name as the nanny that you made up? The name Zanny had been thrown around by Casey for some time before all this happened...she invented the name back when she was telling Jesse's father that she found a baby sitter for Caylee....

I truly believe that i was just a coincidence that this Zenaida happen to go to the sawgrass apts and the police spottd the name and decided to check her out to clear her for the trial to come....

Just suppose what the defense would have done had they found out later on that a "Zenaida" had registered to look at an apt around the same time that Caylee had gone missing, and didn't check it out....?

Refresh my memory as to who heard the name "Zanny" before the 911 call. Zanny could easily have been a made-up name simply because it rhymes with nanny. Is Zanny a "common" nickname for Zenaida? Remember that Casey would have already killed Caylee by the time Zenaida was at Sawgrass, and she's maybe still got the body in her car, so she had to be searching her mind for a story. She sees the name Zenaida and her Zanny the Nanny took her plan begins to hatch.

[AnnInOhio]

Morning Barb,

You ask a loaded question. IMO if Baez had any sense he would recuse himself from this case and get the hell out of Orlando ASAP. :wink:

Well Baez having any sense is as imaginary a scenario as Zanny the Nanny kidnappng Caylee!

[101Spots]

Refresh my memory as to who heard the name "Zanny" before the 911 call. Zanny could easily have been a made-up name simply because it rhymes with nanny. Is Zanny a "common" nickname for Zenaida? Remember that Casey would have already killed Caylee by the time Zenaida was at Sawgrass, and she's maybe still got the body in her car, so she had to be searching her mind for a story. She sees the name Zenaida and her Zanny the Nanny took her plan begins to hatch.

I believe Mr. Grund said she mentioned Zanny to him 'way back when.

However, there was some discussion on this board a while ago that the ~correct~ nickname pronunciation for Zenaida is Zenny, not Zanny (or, for George, Zany).

If Casey invented Zanny the nanny, and happened upon Zenaida's application at Sawgrass, she may have just adopted the name unaware that the pronunciation would not really match.

Or, she speaks Spanish with an American accent.

Or, she just got lucky.

Who knows?

:shrug:

[Barbara fl.]

Refresh my memory as to who heard the name "Zanny" before the 911 call. Zanny could easily have been a made-up name simply because it rhymes with nanny. Is Zanny a "common" nickname for Zenaida? Remember that Casey would have already killed Caylee by the time Zenaida was at Sawgrass, and she's maybe still got the body in her car, so she had to be searching her mind for a story. She sees the name Zenaida and her Zanny the Nanny took her plan begins to hatch.


Jesse Grunds father told NG that Casey told him of Zanny back when she was still working at Universal studio, also the name was used around the Anthony home as well as Tone being tld of Zanny, and when Tone asked Casey what did Zanny stand for, she said Zenaida....but I truely believe that it was just a made up name and ZG happened to be at the wrong pace at the wrong time...I honestly do not see the connection....Gonzales is a very common hispanic name, and Orlando being highly populated with hispanics, it wouldn't be hard to find a "Gonzales" on almost every block...Now "Zenaida" is a different story, it is some what of an odd name, but not I don't believe it is That odd....

I'm prone to believe that it was just a coincidence.......but I can be wrong. It is just my opinion...and I have certainly been wrong in the past...

[desmom]

Refresh my memory as to who heard the name "Zanny" before the 911 call. Zanny could easily have been a made-up name simply because it rhymes with nanny. Is Zanny a "common" nickname for Zenaida? Remember that Casey would have already killed Caylee by the time Zenaida was at Sawgrass, and she's maybe still got the body in her car, so she had to be searching her mind for a story. She sees the name Zenaida and her Zanny the Nanny took her plan begins to hatch.

Rev. Grund told LE he heard it in April '06. He found it odd that Casey's description of Zanny in July '08 was almost word for word what she told him April '06.

page 6 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5556906/Casey-Anthony-Richard-Grund-Transcript

[AnnInOhio]

I believe Mr. Grund said she mentioned Zanny to him 'way back when.

However, there was some discussion on this board a while ago that the ~correct~ nickname pronunciation for Zenaida is Zenny, not Zanny (or, for George, Zany).

If Casey invented Zanny the nanny, and happened upon Zenaida's application at Sawgrass, she may have just adopted the name unaware that the pronunciation would not really match.

Or, she speaks Spanish with an American accent.

Or, she just got lucky.

Who knows?

:shrug:

I don't think Casey saw the card in the office at Sawgrass. That's why I think its more likely that a thief like Casey who needed money was probably ripping off cars in the neighborhood. I suspect she'd been doing that for pocket money for some time - how else besides stealing did she ever have money for anything?

[AnnInOhio]

Rev. Grund told LE he heard it in April '06. He found it odd that Casey's description of Zanny in July '08 was almost word for word what she told him April '06.

page 6 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5556906/Casey-Anthony-Richard-Grund-Transcript

Casey has a habit of taking a part of this and a part of that to concoct her lies. I think in she'd been using the "with a nanny" story for sme time. Searching for a story she saw the name Zenaida and resurrected the name Zanny she had used previously. After all, people had obviously "bought" the story before.

[Barbara fl.]

I just did a "people search" for a Zenaida Gonzales and came up with about 85, also I have a Zenaida Gonzales age 75, living right in my area in Ocala...so although it is somewhat of an odd name, it does show up here and there......

[desmom]

For those that have not been able to watch the video of Friday, August 21, 2008, motion hearing, I found a very nice recap of the events:

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2009/08/casey-anthony-august-21-hearing-report.html

[Elle]

Refresh my memory as to who heard the name "Zanny" before the 911 call. Zanny could easily have been a made-up name simply because it rhymes with nanny. Is Zanny a "common" nickname for Zenaida? Remember that Casey would have already killed Caylee by the time Zenaida was at Sawgrass, and she's maybe still got the body in her car, so she had to be searching her mind for a story. She sees the name Zenaida and her Zanny the Nanny took her plan begins to hatch.

I know that zanny came up when Rev. Grund was asking her what plans she had re. Caylee and someone to watch her, she shot back that she already had a nanny to watch Caylee and her name was zanny. I think that was the best she could do, I think it just came out and zanny was born.
I believe Zenaida was born the night Ricardo asked her wth zanny was from or what kind of name zanny was, and she responded it was short for zenaida.
I think that she came upon this Zenaida's myspace or something in search for a Z that she could take bits of her life from, and simultaneously change some.
I believe she saw Z's crashed up silver car (resembled a ford) and the tampa crash story came to be, I believe that Z's real 2 children's names were changed a bit and made into her roomates, or else maybe she forgot the exact names and only could remember sort of what they sounded like because they are similar. I think she probably even had a heads up as to Z apartment searching and maybe one of her journal entries or blurbs or messages even outright stated she checked out sawgrass or alluded to it.
Maybe she ended up behind her at a store or something and heard her call her children, or saw her ID, or overheard that she was going to sawgrass, maybe she had been following her around, maybe even before she killed Caylee. God knows she had nothing else to do during the day, and being a mother was not a priority.
I think Casey knew she had to have more of a persona to her zanny the nanny, that she had to have more of a back story, that she had to incorporate 'truth into her lies' so her piecemealed zanny would seem more believable.

imoo

[ish]

The only reason that I wouldn't go along with that, is because what would be the odds of breaking into someones car who would possibly have the same name as the nanny that you made up? The name Zanny had been thrown around by Casey for some time before all this happened...she invented the name back when she was telling Jesse's father that she found a baby sitter for Caylee....

I truly believe that i was just a coincidence that this Zenaida happen to go to the sawgrass apts and the police spottd the name and decided to check her out to clear her for the trial to come....

Just suppose what the defense would have done had they found out later on that a "Zenaida" had registered to look at an apt around the same time that Caylee had gone missing, and didn't check it out....?

Sometimes things are just a coincidence. I think the only person who said Zanny was short for Zenaida was Ricardo. Everyone else says the nanny was referred to as nanny or zanny. Casey may have just pulled the Zenaida out of her azz when the questions started flying and things developed from there. I'm going back to read her statement to the cops now to see if she gave an exact apartment number or did she point out an apartment that happened to be apt 210, the one that ZG turns out to have been shown.

[ish]

Jesse Grunds father told NG that Casey told him of Zanny back when she was still working at Universal studio, also the name was used around the Anthony home as well as Tone being tld of Zanny, and when Tone asked Casey what did Zanny stand for, she said Zenaida....but I truely believe that it was just a made up name and ZG happened to be at the wrong pace at the wrong time...I honestly do not see the connection....Gonzales is a very common hispanic name, and Orlando being highly populated with hispanics, it wouldn't be hard to find a "Gonzales" on almost every block...Now "Zenaida" is a different story, it is some what of an odd name, but not I don't believe it is That odd....

I'm prone to believe that it was just a coincidence.......but I can be wrong. It is just my opinion...and I have certainly been wrong in the past...

She went to school with a Zenaida, I believe.

[AnnInOhio]

Sometimes things are just a coincidence. I think the only person who said Zanny was short for Zenaida was Ricardo. Everyone else says the nanny was referred to as nanny or zanny. Casey may have just pulled the Zenaida out of her azz when the questions started flying and things developed from there. I'm going back to read her statement to the cops now to see if she gave an exact apartment number or did she point out an apartment that happened to be apt 210, the one that ZG turns out to have been shown.

But had Ricardo heard Zenaida before 6/17 or so? I thought that conversation was during the 31 days. I hate to ask others to do the research, but I'm supposed to be working!

[Sun]

Does anyone remember an apt being broke into in the same apt complex where TL lived? I'm specifically looking for the date of the break-in. Lee and Tony sure make reference to maybe that Casey was the one who did the B&E. Lee sure was wondering if that might be how casey got some money.

http://www.wftv.com/video/19106469/index.html

The sting that TL did with Lee.

[kattitude]

I would like Baez to explain why he never gave up this photo that he said proved there is a Zanny. If you can remember, Baez stated that there was a photo of Casey, Caylee, and Zanny together. That the person that had it was out of the state, and he (Baez) was sending someone to get the photo. I have never heard Baez talk about this photo since that day.

Of course, we all know there was no photo. :rolleyes:

[Elle]

But had Ricardo heard Zenaida before 6/17 or so? I thought that conversation was during the 31 days. I hate to ask others to do the research, but I'm supposed to be working!

IIRC it was either late winter/early spring sometime when Ricardo asked about the name zanny and Casey had to think quick imo and shot back Zenaida.

imo

[desmom]

Rev. Grund told LE he heard it in April '06. He found it odd that Casey's description of Zanny in July '08 was almost word for word what she told him April '06.

page 6 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5556906/Casey-Anthony-Richard-Grund-Transcript

Hmm, sorry to quote myself, but I checked Casey's statement to LE.

page 6 - 7 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Anthony,%20Casey%20No%201-0721.pdf

Q And you say you’ve known Zenaida for about four years?
A Almost four years yes.
Q So, you knew her before you had your child?
A Well, I met her just before I was actually pregnant at the time so.
Q And when did star watching over your child?
A Um, it’s been within the last year and a half, two years that she started watching Caylee. I had another friend watch Caylee that I’ve known since middle school. When she went back to school I was looking for a new nanny. Jeff offered to have Zenaida
watch both kids. She agreed and it kind of went from there.
Q Before Zenaida started watching over your child who was it, who was the nanny?
A Her name was Lauren Gibbs, G-I-B-B-S.
Q And when did Lauren stop watching Zen.. ah, your child?
A Um, maybe April of 2006.
Q Okay. And end of April 2006 roughly is when Zenaida started watching her?
A Yes

Funny how Casey forgot about Jesse and family watching Caylee. Maybe she didn't consider it important at the time. Maybe she didn't want her parents to know the Grunds were keeping Caylee.

jmo

[Barbara fl.]

Hmm, sorry to quote myself, but I checked Casey's statement to LE.

page 6 - 7 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Anthony,%20Casey%20No%201-0721.pdf

Q And you say you’ve known Zenaida for about four years?
A Almost four years yes.
Q So, you knew her before you had your child?
A Well, I met her just before I was actually pregnant at the time so.
Q And when did star watching over your child?
A Um, it’s been within the last year and a half, two years that she started watching Caylee. I had another friend watch Caylee that I’ve known since middle school. When she went back to school I was looking for a new nanny. Jeff offered to have Zenaida
watch both kids. She agreed and it kind of went from there.
Q Before Zenaida started watching over your child who was it, who was the nanny?
A Her name was Lauren Gibbs, G-I-B-B-S.
Q And when did Lauren stop watching Zen.. ah, your child?
A Um, maybe April of 2006.
Q Okay. And end of April 2006 roughly is when Zenaida started watching her?
A Yes

Funny how Casey forgot about Jesse and family watching Caylee. Maybe she didn't consider it important at the time. Maybe she didn't want her parents to know the Grunds were keeping Caylee.

jmo



I do believe there was a whole lot that Casey hadn't anticipated coming out of this....and she thought she planned it so well....:mad:

[summer4meplz]

I think Casey used the name Zanny because it rhymed with nanny or it came from the children's book that was posted on here way back when..."Double Trouble" I think was the name of it.

At sometime in Casey's travels or while surfing myspace/facebook she ran across ZG. ZG could have posted it on her myspace she had looked at Sawgrass or someone mentioned it in a conversation that Casey was a part of her overheard. Zanny the Nanny now had a full name - Zenaida Gonzalez.

Casey threw in the Fernandez so she could tell LE that the ZG that looked at Sawgrass LE uncovered during the investigation was not Caylee's nanny.

jmo

wasn't zenaida gonzales' boyfriend associated with the tattoo parlor?

[AnnInOhio]

Hmm, sorry to quote myself, but I checked Casey's statement to LE.

page 6 - 7 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Anthony,%20Casey%20No%201-0721.pdf

Q And you say you’ve known Zenaida for about four years?
A Almost four years yes.
Q So, you knew her before you had your child?
A Well, I met her just before I was actually pregnant at the time so.
Q And when did star watching over your child?
A Um, it’s been within the last year and a half, two years that she started watching Caylee. I had another friend watch Caylee that I’ve known since middle school. When she went back to school I was looking for a new nanny. Jeff offered to have Zenaida
watch both kids. She agreed and it kind of went from there.
Q Before Zenaida started watching over your child who was it, who was the nanny?
A Her name was Lauren Gibbs, G-I-B-B-S.
Q And when did Lauren stop watching Zen.. ah, your child?
A Um, maybe April of 2006.
Q Okay. And end of April 2006 roughly is when Zenaida started watching her?
A Yes

Funny how Casey forgot about Jesse and family watching Caylee. Maybe she didn't consider it important at the time. Maybe she didn't want her parents to know the Grunds were keeping Caylee.

jmo

As Cindy's brother said to Cindy and George, "You guys will go down in history as the stupidest parents in the universe."

[*Serenity*]

wasn't zenaida gonzales' boyfriend associated with the tattoo parlor?

I know the courts finally decided the LE/The State could photograph Casey's tattoo (new one while Caylee missing) however, I am really curious if they made the trip over yet to get a nice pin-up of that for the case. I hope they super enlarge it for the jury.

[*Serenity*]

As Cindy's brother said to Cindy and George, "You guys will go down in history as the stupidest parents in the universe."

I bet Cindy has sent additional nasty emails to Rick since he aired some of that family's dirty laundry. Thankfully he and his Mother were wise enough to get the truth out to LE and help, instead of hiding, lying, and contributing to a cover up.

Wonder if Cindy ever goes to see her Mom and Dad, since her Mother told the truth to LE about her lying-cheating daughter?

[desmom]

wasn't zenaida gonzales' boyfriend associated with the tattoo parlor?

http://helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?p=417556#post417556

[Katprint]

From this quote:

"The payment itself, however, cannot be used as evidence that Casey is guilty of the criminal charges."

I don't understand this logic at all. Why would she pay back the money if she wasn't guilty of theft of money from Amy? Making Amy whole still doesn't negate the fact that Casey stole money from her. I am not going to disagree with Kat because I am not a lawyer but that not being evidence of guilt of the criminal charges makes no sense to me. Making restitution for a crime one commits indicates to me that a crime was committed and should IMO be evidence of guilt. What am I missing here? Kat are you out there? :confused:
I agree that as far as simple logic goes, yes, if you are accused of wrongfully taking money/property and you repay/give back the property then that logically seems to show guilt and/or a valid claim against you. However, as a matter of public policy, to encourage people to return property to its rightful owner and/or to settle civil disputes out of court, compromising a disputed claim (even by paying it in full) is inadmissible to prove guilt. Otherwise, there would be no incentive for people to settle disputes out of court because their settlement negotiations and their payments would be used as evidence against them.

The applicable Florida statute is section 90.408: "Compromise and offers to compromise. -- Evidence of an offer to compromise a claim which was disputed as to validity or amount, as well as any relevant conduct or statements made in negotiations concerning a compromise, is inadmissible to prove liability or absence of liability for the claim or its value." http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0090/SEC408.HTM&Title=-%3E2009-%3ECh0090-%3ESection%20408#0090.408

I just don't know what else I can tell you about this.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[summer4meplz]

http://helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?p=417556#post417556

Thanks, Des....:thumbsup:

[JHP]

I bet Cindy has sent additional nasty emails to Rick since he aired some of that family's dirty laundry. Thankfully he and his Mother were wise enough to get the truth out to LE and help, instead of hiding, lying, and contributing to a cover up.

Wonder if Cindy ever goes to see her Mom and Dad, since her Mother told the truth to LE about her lying-cheating daughter?

I am happy that Cindy's mom didn't jump on the perfect family bandwagon. I bet that G&C have written most of the family off because they figured out just how totally messed up they were.

[desmom]

Thanks, Des....:thumbsup:

YW. Until you asked, I had forgot about it.

Yes I suffer from CRS. :tonguewag:

[Deannalynn]

Rev. Grund told LE he heard it in April '06. He found it odd that Casey's description of Zanny in July '08 was almost word for word what she told him April '06.

page 6 http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5556906/Casey-Anthony-Richard-Grund-Transcript

Cindy's mentality.

Cindy is talking to Jesse's dad about what a wonderful daughter Casey is.
Grund says "you are telling me what a wonderful daughter you have and we both know she ripped Jesse off for 250.00."
Jesse gave Casey $250.00 and she wrote him a bad check.
Cindy says, "Yes, but she only did it once.":laugh:

Cindy deserves Casey...

[desmom]

Does anyone remember an apt being broke into in the same apt complex where TL lived? I'm specifically looking for the date of the break-in. Lee and Tony sure make reference to maybe that Casey was the one who did the B&E. Lee sure was wondering if that might be how casey got some money.

http://www.wftv.com/video/19106469/index.html

The sting that TL did with Lee.

Thanks for the link. When these were released, my speakers were not working correctly. I never did listen to them. Off to do that now.... :chicken:

[ish]

I agree that as far as simple logic goes, yes, if you are accused of wrongfully taking money/property and you repay/give back the property then that logically seems to show guilt and/or a valid claim against you. However, as a matter of public policy, to encourage people to return property to its rightful owner and/or to settle civil disputes out of court, compromising a disputed claim (even by paying it in full) is inadmissible to prove guilt. Otherwise, there would be no incentive for people to settle disputes out of court because their settlement negotiations and their payments would be used as evidence against them.

The applicable Florida statute is section 90.408: "Compromise and offers to compromise. -- Evidence of an offer to compromise a claim which was disputed as to validity or amount, as well as any relevant conduct or statements made in negotiations concerning a compromise, is inadmissible to prove liability or absence of liability for the claim or its value." http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0090/SEC408.HTM&Title=-%3E2009-%3ECh0090-%3ESection%20408#0090.408

I just don't know what else I can tell you about this.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Thanks so much for your input and expertise and don't expect any additonal info but, I find this confusing in Casey's situation, where are the negotiations? This isn't a civil case. She is accused of stealing and is pleading not guilty to that. If they offered her a lesser charge if restitution were made I can see the logic, but to plead not guilty, pay restitution and then go to trial? If she is found not guilty, would BOA have to pay her back? Does Amy then have to give the money back to BOA, how does that resolve the fact that Amy is the injured party, where is her "justice"?

[Sun]

Thanks for the link. When these were released, my speakers were not working correctly. I never did listen to them. Off to do that now.... :chicken:

Video's of Lee & Tony
http://www.wftv.com/video/19105515/index.html
http://www.wftv.com/video/19106026/index.html
http://www.wftv.com/video/19106469/index.html
http://www.wftv.com/video/19106773/index.html

[Dells]

I am keeping my fingers crossed Judge Strickland makes his rulings today re the motions we heard on Friday.

I really hope we get to see LP and Crew's interviews.

Thanks so much for starting a new daily thread! Good morning, everyone. :seeya:

I hope we get the rulings today too. I am a little nervous for them. I just hope that Judge Strickland makes the right rulings, even if it is not the rulings that I want. I just want to make sure that Casey is convicted and that she doesn't have any recourse for an appeal.

[Dells]

Me too desmom! I think that they can testify to some "Bombshells". :biggrin: Also I want the fraud case to go forward.

Bolding mine....

I do too, but I have a sinking feeling that the judge is going to delay the fraud trial until after the murder trial. At least the prosecution tried.

[Sun]

desmom, Lee sure does talk a lot in those videos. Non-stop. I sort of got the impression that once he moved out in Jan 2006, that he may have not spent a great deal of time with any of the Anthonys. At least I sure didn't get an impression of a close brother-sister bond. I also got the impression that Lee had a weird dismissive attitude towards George. Not a normal son/father love or respect.

[happygert]

Hi everyone... Any rulings yet from the Judge?

[Dells]

Me too, Des. Baez had no proof of an "oral" agreement, and the written agreement specifically states that Padilla and company were not associated with the defense, so I think at least some of their testimony is coming into court.

I think we also have our proof that there is evidence out there that the DA has kept away from the sunshine laws and these interviews are among them. What else is being kept from the public?

Tracy McLaughlin is going to have critical information, imo.

Bolding mine....

I think she's going to as well. Wasn't she the one that Casey said something like 'they haven't even found her (Caylee's) clothes yet?

I don't think Tracy will have any information along the lines of a confession, but she will be able to testify as to Casey's demeanor and frame of mind during the time she was w/her. LDB already said in court that Tracy said Casey was trolling for men on the internet while she was out. Who does that type of thing while their 2 year old child is missing? :scared: What else did Casey do during that time frame? I think Tracy will be able to testify about Casey's character and what she did and did not do while out on bond. What Casey did not do was care about Caylee's whereabouts or help in any way to find Caylee. To me that is important information.

[Sun]

Thanks so much for your input and expertise and don't expect any additonal info but, I find this confusing in Casey's situation, where are the negotiations? This isn't a civil case. She is accused of stealing and is pleading not guilty to that. If they offered her a lesser charge if restitution were made I can see the logic, but to plead not guilty, pay restitution and then go to trial? If she is found not guilty, would BOA have to pay her back? Does Amy then have to give the money back to BOA, how does that resolve the fact that Amy is the injured party, where is her "justice"?

What seems non-logical to me is that the defense paid for those damages just a few days prior to this motion. And, it doesn't appear that they negotiated with the State/LE to try to get any of the charges dropped or lowered. And, it's clear that the bank didn't accept payment in liu of dropping the charges. It appears to me that the defense made the payment for only one reason, and that was to try to manipulate the court in regards to the setting of a trial date. ...something about this just seems so wrong. Perhaps we've not all been shown the whole picture yet, and there are more defense manuvers coming down the road.

[desmom]

desmom, Lee sure does talk a lot in those videos. Non-stop. I sort of got the impression that once he moved out in Jan 2006, that he may have not spent a great deal of time with any of the Anthonys. At least I sure didn't get an impression of a close brother-sister bond. I also got the impression that Lee had a weird dismissive attitude towards George. Not a normal son/father love or respect.

I noticed Lee's jabbering in the lst video you linked. I don't know if I will be able to get all of them today. I wonder how much motrin I have in the house. :tonguewag:

[Dells]

Good Morning !! I've been doing some thinking over the weekend and a thought occured to me regarding the check fraud trial. Did AL state that Casey had repaid the bank the money taken from Amy? I know the bank had repaid Amy and that Baez sent a check to BOA to repay them, but for AL to state that the money came from Casey, isn't that an admission of guilt? Who pleads not guilty to something and then repays the money, prior to the trial? Is Casey going to try to say "yes I cashed the checks, but it wasn't stealing"? It just seems strange that
her attorney is, I think admitting, her client's guilt.

As far as Casey's appearance, yeah she looks like crap but I think that is normal after being in jail 10 months with little access to sunlight. As far as her tears, I call BS. She sniffed, her eyes were red but I never saw any tears. She rubs the bottom of her eyes so hard with the tissue I think it is in an attempt to force a tear or two. I'll bet this is the exact thing she did when G&C nailed her on stealing from them, George said in his statement that she "bawled". She's working the public, a few of the talking heads even sounded like they felt sorry for her. I'm saving my sympathy for Caylee, left to rot in the underbrush, like so much trash.

Bolding mine....

Yes, I think that is exactly what Casey is going to do. Their defense will be that Casey had permission to use Amy's money and checks. They will say that Casey just simply "repaid" the loan that Amy gave her and that it wasn't an admission of guilt at all. It's a ridiculous defense, but what else can they do besides plead guilty? There is no defense for Casey in the fraud case, all they can do is grasp at straws and come up w/ridiculous defense strategies.:sneaky:

[AnnInOhio]

desmom, Lee sure does talk a lot in those videos. Non-stop. I sort of got the impression that once he moved out in Jan 2006, that he may have not spent a great deal of time with any of the Anthonys. At least I sure didn't get an impression of a close brother-sister bond. I also got the impression that Lee had a weird dismissive attitude towards George. Not a normal son/father love or respect.

Duh! George runs up gambling debts, works sporadically and reportedly runs around on Cindy. George doesn't seem to bring a lot to the table as a dad to be proud of. I think that explains the bond between him and Casey...as the dual black sheep of the family.

[Dells]

From this quote:

"The payment itself, however, cannot be used as evidence that Casey is guilty of the criminal charges."

I don't understand this logic at all. Why would she pay back the money if she wasn't guilty of theft of money from Amy? Making Amy whole still doesn't negate the fact that Casey stole money from her. I am not going to disagree with Kat because I am not a lawyer but that not being evidence of guilt of the criminal charges makes no sense to me. Making restitution for a crime one commits indicates to me that a crime was committed and should IMO be evidence of guilt. What am I missing here? Kat are you out there? :confused:

Bolding mine....

I so agree w/you. As an average lay person I think this a huge flaw in our criminal justice system. I think Casey Anthony's murder case is bringing a lot of flaws like this to the forefront. I do not follow cases on a regular basis. I am sure that I don't have to explain to all of you why this case has touched me so much because I am sure you are all here for the same reasons that I am. The twisting of facts, the mistruths and halftruths, and trying this case in the media has left me very disillusioned.:sneaky:

[Dells]

I do believe there was a whole lot that Casey hadn't anticipated coming out of this....and she thought she planned it so well....:mad:

Casey should have spent more time going over her story during those 31 days rather than partying, stealing money from her friends, and getting tattoos.:sneaky:

[AnnInOhio]

Casey should have spent more time going over her story during those 31 days rather than partying, stealing money from her friends, and getting tattoos.:sneaky:

She should have fessed up to her folks right away. I seriously don't think they'd have turned her in and would have helped her come up with an Anthonyesquely plausible story.

[ish]

Listening to George's testimony Friday, he said that Lenny and crew were hired as security for Casey and the rest of the family, because of the protestors. Lenny's previous statements were that he was there to get info to help find Caylee and to make sure Casey stuck around as he was on the hook for a 1/2 million dollars as well. I don't recall Lenny saying he provided security other than to transport Casey to the lawyers office. But didn't George and Cindy travel freely around without any of Padilla's staff? What security did he provide them other than be outside the house? George was off selling T shirts and Cindy was making Tv appearances, no Padilla around.

Oh and Baez was "too busy" to slap a gag order on Padilla when he wasall over Nancy Grace, HLN and JVM, discussing privleged communications. I thought the judge was going to laugh out loud at that. Any lawyer worth his salt would have had Padilla served with papers to knock it off before his first appearance was concluded.

[Dells]

What seems non-logical to me is that the defense paid for those damages just a few days prior to this motion. And, it doesn't appear that they negotiated with the State/LE to try to get any of the charges dropped or lowered. And, it's clear that the bank didn't accept payment in liu of dropping the charges. It appears to me that the defense made the payment for only one reason, and that was to try to manipulate the court in regards to the setting of a trial date. ...something about this just seems so wrong. Perhaps we've not all been shown the whole picture yet, and there are more defense manuvers coming down the road.

Bolding mine.....

I so agree w/you. It just seems so underhanded to me and wrong on numerous levels. If the state wouldn't have pushed to move up the fraud trial, would any of the money been repaid? I think not.:sneaky:

[ish]

She should have fessed up to her folks right away. I seriously don't think they'd have turned her in and would have helped her come up with an Anthonyesquely plausible story.

I can imagine their story.."Caylee who, what's a Caylee"? Oh that's another Casey Anthony's daughter, not this Casey Anthony, you have the wrong Casey Anthony..

[court~critic1®]

Cindy's mentality.

Cindy is talking to Jesse's dad about what a wonderful daughter Casey is.
Grund says "you are telling me what a wonderful daughter you have and we both know she ripped Jesse off for 250.00."
Jesse gave Casey $250.00 and she wrote him a bad check.
Cindy says, "Yes, but she only did it once.":laugh:

Cindy deserves Casey...



"Yes, But She Only Did It Once" sounds like it could be the title of Cindys book.

[♫Rock*Star♫]

"Yes, But She Only Did It Once" sounds like it could be the title of Cindys book.

Agreed.

"Cindy, your daughter murdered your granddaughter."

"Yes, But She Only Did It Once."

[Barbara fl.]

Casey should have spent more time going over her story during those 31 days rather than partying, stealing money from her friends, and getting tattoos.:sneaky:


And I bet she is regreting every minute of those 31 days....She must be having alot of those "shoulda, coulda, woulda moments"....

I must say that it looks like jail is taking a toll on her....isn't that too bad......:rolleyes:

[Barbara fl.]

I hope NG will talk some on the case tonight...the other top stories she has been handling should be at a close now...

[denjet]

From this quote:

"The payment itself, however, cannot be used as evidence that Casey is guilty of the criminal charges."

I don't understand this logic at all. Why would she pay back the money if she wasn't guilty of theft of money from Amy? Making Amy whole still doesn't negate the fact that Casey stole money from her. I am not going to disagree with Kat because I am not a lawyer but that not being evidence of guilt of the criminal charges makes no sense to me. Making restitution for a crime one commits indicates to me that a crime was committed and should IMO be evidence of guilt. What am I missing here? Kat are you out there? :confused:
Good Afternoon guys!
I've tried to wrap my head around this and I can see where it might not be an admission of guilt in a way ... but ony that the money's been taken care of for the time being, making it less urgent for a court decision on it .. I guess if KC's saying Amy told her she could "borrow" the money and use her checkbook, then the conflict is between Amy and her and Amy would be the one with the desire to get this settled as quickly as possible and get her life back on track ... which in my opinion is reason enough to move forward with the case. If it HAS come down to KC's word against Amy, then all the more reason to clear Amy of this ... but, there's still the little detail, from the state's perscpective of forgery, etc. It's still not legal is it? ...

It just really irks me (as much as everyone else) that Amy and Zenaida have to have their lives put on hold and still be involved in KC's murder trial when it could have been settled a long time ago ... Amy has nothing to do with Caylee's disappearance and KC could state on the record that this Zenaida is NOT the person that took her daughter ... How could this possibly affect the outcome of the murder trial, I mean if they're not being accused of having anything to do with it? :shrug:

[Holden]

She should have fessed up to her folks right away. I seriously don't think they'd have turned her in and would have helped her come up with an Anthonyesquely plausible story.

:thumbup: Exactly AnnInOhio. If casey had come to the A's right after this thing happened, they would have covered up for her somehow, as they covered up for everything else their little sociopath ever did. I know CA is still kicking herself for that spontaneous 911 call. If she hadn't done that, some other excuse/reason/lie would have come to them to explain Caylee's absence.

[Katprint]

Thanks so much for your input and expertise and don't expect any additonal info but, I find this confusing in Casey's situation, where are the negotiations? This isn't a civil case. She is accused of stealing and is pleading not guilty to that. If they offered her a lesser charge if restitution were made I can see the logic, but to plead not guilty, pay restitution and then go to trial? If she is found not guilty, would BOA have to pay her back? Does Amy then have to give the money back to BOA, how does that resolve the fact that Amy is the injured party, where is her "justice"?
I think I understand what is causing your confusion.

Frequently, a single action creates civil and criminal liability. For example, when Scott Peterson killed his wife Laci, he 1) committed a murder - criminal - for which he was prosecuted in a criminal court of law, and simultaneously 2) caused a wrongful death - civil - for which he was sued in a civil court by Laci's parents.

Sometimes an action which definitely creates to civil liability might also create criminal liability. If you crash your car into someone else's car then you are civilly liable for that (although normally your insurance company pays the civil claim.) Depending on the circumstances, you might also be criminally liable if you were driving recklessly or while intoxicated or whatever. However, your insurance company's payment of the civil claim against you is not admissible in any criminal action against you.

Similarly, if you write a bad check, you are civilly liable to reimburse the amount of the check plus bank fees. Depending on the circumstances, you may also be criminally liable. However, reimbursing the amount of the check plus bank fees to settle the civil claim is not admissible in any criminal action to prove guilt (although prompt voluntary reimbursement might be admissible to show state of mind such as lack of intent to defraud.)

Although DA's often will not bother to prosecute crimes when the victim doesn't ask them to (i.e. "to press charges"), the final decision whether or not to prosecute a crime belongs to the DA, not the victim. The victim can only sue in civil court. So, Amy and BOA are not in charge of whether or not Casey is criminally prosecuted; that is up to the DA.

Amy and BOA could theoretically sue Casey in civil court except that their recovery would be limited to the amount of their loss and they have already been reimbursed for that. The best they could hope for in civil court would be a judgment awarding the amount that Casey took but then Casey would be entitled to an offset for the amount she had already paid to them, and the net judgment would be zero. It is not worth the attorneys fees and court costs for them to pursue vindication; Amy has been slandered a little bit but not accused of kidnapping and murder like the Zenaida Gonzales who is suing Casey for defamation.

Hope that helps!

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[denjet]

Bolding mine....

I think she's going to as well. Wasn't she the one that Casey said something like 'they haven't even found her (Caylee's) clothes yet?

I don't think Tracy will have any information along the lines of a confession, but she will be able to testify as to Casey's demeanor and frame of mind during the time she was w/her. LDB already said in court that Tracy said Casey was trolling for men on the internet while she was out. Who does that type of thing while their 2 year old child is missing? :scared: What else did Casey do during that time frame? I think Tracy will be able to testify about Casey's character and what she did and did not do while out on bond. What Casey did not do was care about Caylee's whereabouts or help in any wa to find Caylee. To me that is important information.
Hi Dell's!
I'm wondering myself what Tracy has to say about what the Ants were or were not doing ... were they busy following up on leads? was Dominic busy investigating ? what were the conversations that took place between KC and her family? Couldn't she testify to what Cindy and George were saying and doing?

[onlykaty]

Well first, her name is not Zenaida Fernandez Gonzales" it is just "Zenaida Gonzales"...and although I have never personally knew a Zenaida, I have been told that it is not that uncommon of a name...Orlando is a highly hispanic area, so it could very well have been a coincidence...I honestly do not believe that it was set to look like this was the Zenaida, Casey is not smart enough to have even thought of figuring that out.....

Another coincidence? ZG, had NY plates on her car and Casey said that also? I read at one time that Casey had maybe been around the apartments when ZG, applied for an apartment there and somehow saw her application. Am I wrong about this?


I asked this before reading further, still confusing but I can see it might have been one of many reasons why she used that name for the nanny.

edited my post.

[Deannalynn]

Hi Dell's!
I'm wondering myself what Tracy has to say about what the Ants were or were not doing ... were they busy following up on leads? was Dominic busy investigating ? what were the conversations that took place between KC and her family? Couldn't she testify to what Cindy and George were saying and doing?

The link that desmom provided to us with Rev. Grunds statements said that he asked George why he was not out looking for Caylee. George told him, "You know why I'm not out there looking?" "Because my wife told me I am not to."

It is completely true that none of them wanted Caylee's remains to be found. I think they knew all along she was dead. LE certainly knew.:rolleyes:

[happygert]

Listening to George's testimony Friday, he said that Lenny and crew were hired as security for Casey and the rest of the family, because of the protestors. Lenny's previous statements were that he was there to get info to help find Caylee and to make sure Casey stuck around as he was on the hook for a 1/2 million dollars as well. I don't recall Lenny saying he provided security other than to transport Casey to the lawyers office. But didn't George and Cindy travel freely around without any of Padilla's staff? What security did he provide them other than be outside the house? George was off selling T shirts and Cindy was making Tv appearances, no Padilla around.

Oh and Baez was "too busy" to slap a gag order on Padilla when he wasall over Nancy Grace, HLN and JVM, discussing privleged communications. I thought the judge was going to laugh out loud at that. Any lawyer worth his salt would have had Padilla served with papers to knock it off before his first appearance was concluded.

I guess they didnt need security when george and cindy was raking in the money from donations either..cindy took care of that..
wasn't dc and hoover suppose to provide "security"?..
All I can say is LAIR, LAIR... hope SA and LE provide's security soon for them.. what better way then behind bars and in PC like casey?..

[Eagleeye]

Agreed.

"Cindy, your daughter murdered your granddaughter."

"Yes, But She Only Did It Once."

Cindy Anthony logic at it's best. :cursing:

[onlykaty]

Casey should have spent more time going over her story during those 31 days rather than partying, stealing money from her friends, and getting tattoos.:sneaky:

I think Casey was so used to things going her way after telling her lies that she never thought for a second it wouldn't be accepted. Casey just didn't account for the fact that there are laws we all have to abide by, knowing how her parents act, thinking they are above the law, I'm sure Casey felt the same way...jmo

[Lapis]

Good Afternoon guys!
I've tried to wrap my head around this and I can see where it might not be an admission of guilt in a way ... but ony that the money's been taken care of for the time being, making it less urgent for a court decision on it .. I guess if KC's saying Amy told her she could "borrow" the money and use her checkbook, then the conflict is between Amy and her and Amy would be the one with the desire to get this settled as quickly as possible and get her life back on track ... which in my opinion is reason enough to move forward with the case. If it HAS come down to KC's word against Amy, then all the more reason to clear Amy of this ... but, there's still the little detail, from the state's perscpective of forgery, etc. It's still not legal is it? ...

It just really irks me (as much as everyone else) that Amy and Zenaida have to have their lives put on hold and still be involved in KC's murder trial when it could have been settled a long time ago ... Amy has nothing to do with Caylee's disappearance and KC could state on the record that this Zenaida is NOT the person that took her daughter ... How could this possibly affect the outcome of the murder trial, I mean if they're not being accused of having anything to do with it? :shrug:

Casey cannot just state on the record that this is not the ZG that took her daughter. She would subject herself to further questioning in the civil matter and that testimony can be used against her in the criminal matter. In fact, the case could be made that by speaking in the civil matter she waived her rights in the criminal matter. A defendant cannot pick and choose which questions to answer.

The justice system recognizes that at this point in time Casey is presumed innocent. No matter what inconvenience may be suffered by others while the criminal trial is pending, it does not compare (in the eyes of the law) to the inconvenience suffered by the defendant. The presumption is not just idle talk. It really means something. That is why we have trials and do not just charge and punish. I know that its not a popular sentiment, but Casey's life is on the line. Ensuring that she get a fair trial in the murder case is the most important thing in the view of the court.

It is important that we look at the system removed from this case. Casey has been convicted of nothing and is entitled to the full protection of the system. There are safeguards in place to ensure that the all defendants receive fair trials both the innocent and the guilty.

JMO

[Eagleeye]

I think I understand what is causing your confusion.

However, reimbursing the amount of the check plus bank fees to settle the civil claim is not admissible in any criminal action to prove guilt (although prompt voluntary reimbursement might be admissible to show state of mind such as lack of intent to defraud.)
//snipped for space//
Hope that helps!

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Kat,

my bold: Then why conversely wouldn't making an eleventh hour restitution not show state of mind such as "intent to defraud" and be admissible as well? Does our court system have that level of a double standard?

[Barbara fl.]

Another coincidence? ZG, had NY plates on her car and Casey said that also? I read at one time that Casey had maybe been around the apartments when ZG, applied for an apartment there and somehow saw her application. Am I wrong about this?


I asked this before reading further, still confusing but I can see it might have been one of many reasons why she used that name for the nanny.

edited my post.


Yes, I do remember hearing Casey say that the police should check NY for Zanny, that she often traveled there (or something to that affect)...I personally do not remember hearing that ZFG had NY plates on her car (((BUT I COULD BE MISTAKEN)))...I haven't had the time to read all the transcrips.....Desmom, would know for sure, she is awesome with how she has kept up with this case...

And if that be the truth, then I change my opinion as to whether Casey had actually saw ZG's car at sawgrass or not.....I just would not give Casey that much intelligence to try and cover up by using a strangers car at sawgrass....let's not forget, tha if Casey was trying to cover up what she had did, she would have needed time away from her boyfriens and fusion and she certainly would have taken the time to dispose of Caylee's remains better then she did....

I just can not see her planning too far ahead .....but I can be wrong...

[denjet]

....Amy has been slandered a little bit but not accused of kidnapping and murder like the Zenaida Gonzales who is suing Casey for defamation.

Hope that helps!

Katprint
Always only my own opinions
*Respectfully snipped*
Hi Kat!
I totally understand the legalities ... thanks for your explanation ...
but have to disagree with you when it comes to how this is affecting Amy ... the fact that KC is pleading not guilty to the fraud/financial charges and Amy's been dragged into the murder trial makes it more than a case of slander, to me ... we've yet to see how else Amy will be implicated and Amy's word and good name need, IMO, to be cleared before the murder trial as it could affect her credibility when testifying ... the defense has been attacking everyone associated with KC during those 31 days and I for one would like to see Amy get justice before, rather than later ... this is only being delayed because of the sentencing phase ... most likely KC will plead guilty to the 13 felony charges AFTER she is found guilty on the murder charge ... JMO

[Bala]

Does the fraud charges not included BOA and the missing money from Casey's grandfather's account as well? Didn't Casey's grandmother have to agree to filing charges to get back the money Casey stole from the bank?

[Eagleeye]

Lapis or Kat since you are here I have another question. Since it would appear that Baez knows Casey is guilty and possibly she has confessed to him; if Baez allows her on the stand in the criminal case, wouldn't he have to recuse himself since he would be suborning perjury and likely be disbarred?

[denjet]

The link that desmom provided to us with Rev. Grunds statements said that he asked George why he was not out looking for Caylee. George told him, "You know why I'm not out there looking?" "Because my wife told me I am not to."

It is completely true that none of them wanted Caylee's remains to be found. I think they knew all along she was dead. LE certainly knew.:rolleyes:
Hi Dean!
Yep, and I'm sure lots of other things were said under that roof during that time by different people ... I'm thinking Tracy's testimony could be used to confirm testimony of other witnesses too ... Not sure if Tracy heard Grund's statements in particular, but I can't wait to here what she has to say! :sneaky:

[Lapis]

Lapis or Kat since you are here I have another question. Since it would appear that Baez knows Casey is guilty and possibly she has confessed to him; if Baez allows her on the stand in the criminal case, wouldn't he have to recuse himself since he would be suborning perjury and likely be disbarred?

I don't know that where you get that it appears he knows she is guilty. At this point it is just an opinion and to charge an attorney with suborning perjury requires somethng more. If she insists on taking the stand and he knows what that she will be perjuring herself then he must withdraw. However, to prove that he is suborning perjury there first must be a finding that Casey committed perjury and then a separate finding that Baez knew. Since this would require a piercing of attorney client priviledge it is difficult to prove. Also proving state of mind is also difficult. JMO

[newsjunkie]

Just peaking in with no time to read back.

Has anyone heard if the judge has made any decisions concerning Friday's hearing? I didn't see anything in links yet but figured I would ask anyway.
Thanks in advance :tonguewag:

[Kathlb]

Lapis or Kat since you are here I have another question. Since it would appear that Baez knows Casey is guilty and possibly she has confessed to him; if Baez allows her on the stand in the criminal case, wouldn't he have to recuse himself since he would be suborning perjury and likely be disbarred?

You guys really have wonderful minds, you know that? I'm not being facetious, you really do! I can see some lawyers or judges that should have been here in this forum. :thumbsup:

[denjet]

Casey cannot just state on the record that this is not the ZG that took her daughter. She would subject herself to further questioning in the civil matter and that testimony can be used against her in the criminal matter. In fact, the case could be made that by speaking in the civil matter she waived her rights in the criminal matter. A defendant cannot pick and choose which questions to answer.

The justice system recognizes that at this point in time Casey is presumed innocent. No matter what inconvenience may be suffered by others while the criminal trial is pending, it does not compare (in the eyes of the law) to the inconvenience suffered by the defendant. The presumption is not just idle talk. It really means something. That is why we have trials and do not just charge and punish. I know that its not a popular sentiment, but Casey's life is on the line. Ensuring that she get a fair trial in the murder case is the most important thing in the view of the court.

It is important that we look at the system removed from this case. Casey has been convicted of nothing and is entitled to the full protection of the system. There are safeguards in place to ensure that the all defendants receive fair trials both the innocent and the guilty.

JMO
Hi Lapis!
I understand about Zenaida, as unfair as it seems to her, and how her case could not go forward without KC's full cooperation and deposition ... if KC could at least say "this is not" the Zenaida and it could be put out there in the media, it would help her somewhat ... I know that you can't pick and choose questions, I was just thinking of someway the suspicion of Zenaida could be lessened even before either case goes to trial .. Just wishful thinking ...
As far as Amy, why can't this go to trial before the murder case ... if KC's innocent of those charges, then why not go forward?

[Bala]

I don't know that where you get that it appears he knows she is guilty. At this point it is just an opinion and to charge an attorney with suborning perjury requires somethng more. If she insists on taking the stand and he knows what that she will be perjuring herself then he must withdraw. However, to prove that he is suborning perjury there first must be a finding that Casey committed perjury and then a separate finding that Baez knew. Since this would require a piercing of attorney client priviledge it is difficult to prove. Also proving state of mind is also difficult. JMO

I agree but George is another matter. Anyone watching the testimony of George on Friday could clearly see he was lying through his teeth. The whole world knew why Padilla was there in Florida and it wasn't to provide security. Besides when you hire a security team don't you have to pay them and is there no one in Florida that George could hire for security since it's what he does for a living? Baez had to know and I would bet put George up to perjuring himself.

[Eagleeye]

You guys really have wonderful minds, you know that? I'm not being facetious, you really do! I can see some lawyers or judges that should have been here in this forum. :thumbsup:

Thanks Kath. Judge Roy Bean here. Hang the bunch of em and get er dun!! :wink:

[really3997]

I guess they didnt need security when george and cindy was raking in the money from donations either..cindy took care of that..
wasn't dc and hoover suppose to provide "security"?..
All I can say is LAIR, LAIR... hope SA and LE provide's security soon for them.. what better way then behind bars and in PC like casey?..

It was DC that provided the fort knox cameras around the A's house not LP.

[Scampi]

Bolding mine....

I think she's going to as well. Wasn't she the one that Casey said something like 'they haven't even found her (Caylee's) clothes yet?

I don't think Tracy will have any information along the lines of a confession, but she will be able to testify as to Casey's demeanor and frame of mind during the time she was w/her. LDB already said in court that Tracy said Casey was trolling for men on the internet while she was out. Who does that type of thing while their 2 year old child is missing? :scared: What else did Casey do during that time frame? I think Tracy will be able to testify about Casey's character and what she did and did not do while out on bond. What Casey did not do was care about Caylee's whereabouts or help in any way to find Caylee. To me that is important information.

Hiya Dell! I am hoping Tracy has some infor about the red heart stickers, she may have seen them. I agree with you that she will most definetly testify as to the OC's demeanor, not that of a sad and worried mother of a missing child, that's for sure, imo.

[desmom]

Inmate Claims He Knows Who Killed Caylee
http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Jerry Jackson's Letter
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20533041/detail.html

Inmate's Mug
http://images.ibsys.com/2009/0824/20533955_640X360.jpg

ETA ~ This man has a history of confessing or being in the know. jmo

[really3997]

Inmate Claims He Knows Who Killed Caylee
http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Jerry Jackson's Letter
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20533041/detail.html

Inmate's Mug
http://images.ibsys.com/2009/0824/20533955_640X360.jpg

ETA ~ This man has a history of confessing or being in the know. jmo

Great this is all we need..:cursing:

[Kathlb]

Inmate Claims He Knows Who Killed Caylee
http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Jerry Jackson's Letter
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20533041/detail.html

Inmate's Mug
http://images.ibsys.com/2009/0824/20533955_640X360.jpg

ETA ~ This man has a history of confessing or being in the know. jmo

If you can believe any of the cop shows on tv :-) they get lots of these each unsolved murder case. He is just one more I imagine.

[desmom]

Did you read his letter? :blink:

[5boxersmom]

Inmate Claims He Knows Who Killed Caylee
http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Jerry Jackson's Letter
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20533041/detail.html

Inmate's Mug
http://images.ibsys.com/2009/0824/20533955_640X360.jpg

ETA ~ This man has a history of confessing or being in the know. jmo

Boy will Cindy latch on to this. :rolleyes:

jmo

[seeing_eye]

Good morning Eagleeye,

I believe like you, I would also take it as an admission of guilt...however, (like you said) what sense did it make to pay back the bank, the charges have already be brought....I would think that the court would initiate the restitutation that should be made....for Baez to do this upfront doesn't really make any sense...but then again, what does Baez do that makes any sense?

I don't usually defend Bozo's actions, but in this case it makes plenty of sense to me. I believe their defense to the theft case will be their claim that Casey did not steal the money because Amy had given her permission to use her checks for a "loan." So, if they maintain her taking the money was a "loan," then it stands to reason that Casey should pay back the "loan" - which is what she did through her agent, Jose.

That said, however, it is my own opinion that it was not a "loan," but a "theft." Good thing they won't have me on the jury!

[Lapis]

Hi Lapis!
I understand about Zenaida, as unfair as it seems to her, and how here case could not go forward without KC's full cooperation and deposition ... if KC could at least say "this is not" the Zenaida and it could be put out there in the media, it would help her somewhat ... I know that you can't pick and choose questions, I was just thinking of someway the suspicion of Zenaida could be lessened even before either case goes to trial .. Just wishful thinking ...
As far as Amy, why can't this go to trial before the murder case ... if KC's innocent of those charges, then why not go forward?

As unfair as it seems there is a ranking of cases in courts. There are limited resources and time. Criminal cases are more pressing than civil cases. Even in each type of cases there is a ranking. Divorces with children are more pressing than divorces that only deal with the division of property. In this instance, the capital murder case is more pressing than the fraud case.

I found myself, as an attorney, a little uncomfortable with the state's argument on Friday. The state's argument in one respect was "the defendant should just waive her constitutional rights to the attorney of her choice and to a jury trial". "Oh and by the way, as an employee of the state I get paid whether I work on this case or another, and I am not responsible for rainmaking, but the defense attorneys should give up other cases and bankrupt themselves and work on this case 24/7."

I have never tried a capital case, but do know how much time and resources must be put into a murder case and can only imagine the amount of work and investigation involved in a capital case. In addition, in Florida, with the taking of depositions even more work is involved. It is not just a matter reading the discovery provided as we do here. How many people do you think appear here on this message board on a regular basis? That's how many people are reading the material and analyzing it and comparing and contrasting. Very few law firms have that amount of personel. Research has to be done into each witness and experts consulted on the science.

Additionally, while I know some here poohpoohed AL's argument about the pre-trial motions in the fraud case, in point of fact those motions need to be made otherwise she has an issue for appeal. I know some refer to these as delaying tactics but the canons of ethics require a zealous defense. A zealous defense requires these pre-trial motions be made. A zealous defense requires that the defense counsel concern themselves with how the fraud case impacts on the murder trial.

JMO

[enigma™]

If you can believe any of the cop shows on tv :-) they get lots of these each unsolved murder case. He is just one more I imagine.

It is my most unhumble opinion that this murder case is solved. The proof is in the proving, and the prosecution has a way to go, however I do believe they will prevail.

[ish]

I think Casey was so used to things going her way after telling her lies that she never thought for a second it wouldn't be accepted. Casey just didn't account for the fact that there are laws we all have to abide by, knowing how her parents act, thinking they are above the law, I'm sure Casey felt the same way...jmo

Yes, I think Casey was used to having her lies accepted at face value, no need for detail or to clarify those niggling little details that don't quite add up, Cindy didn't press for the truth, George didn't, Lee was out of there, life was easy. Mom was missing money, oh sorry, Universal screwed up my direct deposit again, I'll pay you back. Gas missing? Oh, the gauge was broken and I thought I had half a tank, when I get my mileage reimbursement I'll give dad the money. No, I didn't take any money from your purse, how dare you accuse me!!! I'm sorry, I won't do it again.

The cops didn't play that game, so she added to the lies, told more lies, embellished the lies she told, corrected the lies she told with new lies and when that didn't work, she clammed up. Baez was her hero, he tells her "don't talk to anyone, don't say anything to anybody" Now her life is simple again, the only people she talks to are her attornies and THEY DON"T WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, cause that will make their job more difficult. She she tells them whatver she wants to tell them and they work with it. Who cares about Caylee, I doubt they even think about her.

[KittyMom]

ohhhh....someone tell Stan we're waiting.
<tapping foot>

[Deannalynn]

Great this is all we need..:cursing:

They say he has a history of mental Illness.
I'm not concerned. We will be getting a lot of this before trial..
JMO

[marinewife5]

Boy will Cindy latch on to this. :rolleyes:

jmo

I could be wrong, but judging from the date of the letter, that it is addressing casey's defense team, and the strong indicators that he is refering to Tone Lazarro, it seems that Jose already has latched on to this.

JMO

[ClimbingRose]

Boy will Cindy latch on to this. :rolleyes:

jmo

While reading this letter the handwriting seemed vaguely familiar. IMO suspect C. or C. wrote it. IIRC there is some handwriting of KC's where she printed a check, a note or something where she was attempting to make it appear as if two individuals had written it.:confused:

[Sun]

Inmate Claims He Knows Who Killed Caylee
http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Jerry Jackson's Letter
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20533041/detail.html

Inmate's Mug
http://images.ibsys.com/2009/0824/20533955_640X360.jpg

ETA ~ This man has a history of confessing or being in the know. jmo

It is sad that Cindy and George have to see this in print. That letter is just someone wanting attention, and an escape from the boredom of prison.

[ruth66]

Inmate Claims He Knows Who Killed Caylee
http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Jerry Jackson's Letter
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20533041/detail.html

Inmate's Mug
http://images.ibsys.com/2009/0824/20533955_640X360.jpg

ETA ~ This man has a history of confessing or being in the know. jmo

With visions of the Melanie Mcguire case dancing in my head. For the sake of all that is good, really this is where we are going to go? JMO

[desmom]

Boy will Cindy latch on to this. :rolleyes:

jmo

Too late. He wrote, "I will give you until 8/15/09 to respond to this letter after then I'm going to the grave with this."

[breezie]

As unfair as it seems there is a ranking of cases in courts. There are limited resources and time. Criminal cases are more pressing than civil cases. Even in each type of cases there is a ranking. Divorces with children are more pressing than divorces that only deal with the division of property. In this instance, the capital murder case is more pressing than the fraud case.

I found myself, as an attorney, a little uncomfortable with the state's argument on Friday. The state's argument in one respect was "the defendant should just waive her constitutional rights to the attorney of her choice and to a jury trial". "Oh and by the way, as an employee of the state I get paid whether I work on this case or another, and I am not responsible for rainmaking, but the defense attorneys should give up other cases and bankrupt themselves and work on this case 24/7."

I have never tried a capital case, but do know how much time and resources must be put into a murder case and can only imagine the amount of work and investigation involved in a capital case. In addition, in Florida, with the taking of depositions even more work is involved. It is not just a matter reading the discovery provided as we do here. How many people do you think appear here on this message board on a regular basis? That's how many people are reading the material and analyzing it and comparing and contrasting. Very few law firms have that amount of personel. Research has to be done into each witness and experts consulted on the science.

Additionally, while I know some here poohpoohed AL's argument about the pre-trial motions in the fraud case, in point of fact those motions need to be made otherwise she has an issue for appeal. I know some refer to these as delaying tactics but the canons of ethics require a zealous defense. A zealous defense requires these pre-trial motions be made. A zealous defense requires that the defense counsel concern themselves with how the fraud case impacts on the murder trial.

JMO

does a zealous defense include becoming an attorney of record for the case? I found AL sloppy in both dress and procedures. She's been a disappointment so far. I was hoping she'd be 180 from Baez, but not so far.

[marinewife5]

While reading this letter the handwriting seemed vaguely familiar. IMO suspect C. or C. wrote it. IIRC there is some handwriting of KC's where she printed a check, a note or something where she was attempting to make it appear as if two individuals had written it.:confused:

the circles used to dot the i's seems very attention-seeking to me, kinda junior high school. somewhat whimsicle for a letter regarding such a serious subject.


i also find the "deadline" and the claim the writer will take this info to the grave very dramatic, also kind of junior high.

jmo

[Kathlb]

It is sad that Cindy and George have to see this in print. That letter is just someone wanting attention, and an escape from the boredom of prison.

I'll bet if the pros asked to see the photos, they mysteriously came up missing and dang, but he's mad about that!:wink:

[AnniePie]

For those that have not been able to watch the video of Friday, August 21, 2008, motion hearing, I found a very nice recap of the events:

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2009/08/casey-anthony-august-21-hearing-report.html

Thank you for this, des. I'm playing catch-up here after being away, and this will help.

(Can someone remind me of who Macaluso is? :confused:)

[Bala]

I don't usually defend Bozo's actions, but in this case it makes plenty of sense to me. I believe their defense to the theft case will be their claim that Casey did not steal the money because Amy had given her permission to use her checks for a "loan." So, if they maintain her taking the money was a "loan," then it stands to reason that Casey should pay back the "loan" - which is what she did through her agent, Jose.

That said, however, it is my own opinion that it was not a "loan," but a "theft." Good thing they won't have me on the jury!
Who loans people their check book to start with? I wouldn't even allow my children to "borrow" my check book. Besides isn't it illegal for the bank to cash a check with someone else's signature on it.

[desmom]

Thank you for this, des. I'm playing catch-up here after being away, and this will help.

(Can someone remind me of who Macaluso is? :confused:)

http://www.wftv.com/news/18846454/detail.html
Todd Macaluso has been a trial lawyer for more than 20 years. His practice is based in San Diego, California.

Macaluso says he joined Casey's team, because he believes she's innocent and wants to prove that in a court of law.

"I believe that Casey Anthony is innocent. I'm going to fight alongside Jose Baez and Linda Kenney Baden, as hard as I can to prove that in a court of law," Macaluso said through a statement released Tuesday.

ETA ~ Casey Anthony New Attorney Todd Macaluso Under Investigation In Cali Federal Suit in NJ
http://blinkoncrime.com/2009/03/12/casey-anthony-new-attorney-todd-macaluso-under-investigation-in-cali/

[Deannalynn]

I could be wrong, but judging from the date of the letter, that it is addressing casey's defense team, and the strong indicators that he is refering to Tone Lazarro, it seems that Jose already has latched on to this.

JMO
Bold mine

He writes that the killer was charged with 3 molestations and he's originally from New York.:confused:
Don't sound like Tony.

[Lapis]

does a zealous defense include becoming an attorney of record for the case? I found AL sloppy in both dress and procedures. She's been a disappointment so far. I was hoping she'd be 180 from Baez, but not so far.

I have noticed that there seems to be little criticism of the state in their failure to timely file papers. We seem to have a double standard here.

I am sure that should the state prevail in their motion that she will file a notice of appearance in the fraud case. Additionally, I noticed that the court had no problem with her arguing the motion. In point of fact she is the attorney of record in the murder case and the motion has an impact on the murder trial.

I don't comment on people's appearances as I don't judge people that way.

JMO

[cassidy]

Listening to George's testimony Friday, he said that Lenny and crew were hired as security for Casey and the rest of the family, because of the protestors. Lenny's previous statements were that he was there to get info to help find Caylee and to make sure Casey stuck around as he was on the hook for a 1/2 million dollars as well. I don't recall Lenny saying he provided security other than to transport Casey to the lawyers office. But didn't George and Cindy travel freely around without any of Padilla's staff? What security did he provide them other than be outside the house? George was off selling T shirts and Cindy was making Tv appearances, no Padilla around.

Oh and Baez was "too busy" to slap a gag order on Padilla when he wasall over Nancy Grace, HLN and JVM, discussing privleged communications. I thought the judge was going to laugh out loud at that. Any lawyer worth his salt would have had Padilla served with papers to knock it off before his first appearance was concluded.

Hired huh? Next question should have been: who paid them?

[KittyMom]

http://www.wftv.com/news/18846454/detail.html
Todd Macaluso has been a trial lawyer for more than 20 years. His practice is based in San Diego, California.

Macaluso says he joined Casey's team, because he believes she's innocent and wants to prove that in a court of law.

"I believe that Casey Anthony is innocent. I'm going to fight alongside Jose Baez and Linda Kenney Baden, as hard as I can to prove that in a court of law," Macaluso said through a statement released Tuesday.

ETA ~ Casey Anthony New Attorney Todd Macaluso Under Investigation In Cali Federal Suit in NJ
http://blinkoncrime.com/2009/03/12/casey-anthony-new-attorney-todd-macaluso-under-investigation-in-cali/

If Macaluso truly believes in Casey's innocence, I've got a nice strip of beach to sell him in TN.

[Deannalynn]

Hi Lapis!
I understand about Zenaida, as unfair as it seems to her, and how her case could not go forward without KC's full cooperation and deposition ... if KC could at least say "this is not" the Zenaida and it could be put out there in the media, it would help her somewhat ... I know that you can't pick and choose questions, I was just thinking of someway the suspicion of Zenaida could be lessened even before either case goes to trial .. Just wishful thinking ...
As far as Amy, why can't this go to trial before the murder case ... if KC's innocent of those charges, then why not go forward?

She's obviously guilty. It was said the reason why they don't want to try it before the murder trial is because they don't want a felony charge when the murder case goes to trial.:shrug:

[marinewife5]

Bold mine

He writes that the killer was charged with 3 molestations and he's originally from New York.:confused:
Don't sound like Tony.

I think the three molestations are fictional, or to create a sense of evil in the accusee. and tony is from new york. he would also qualify as someone casey had a relationship with.

jmo

[Deannalynn]

I think the three molestations are fictional, or to create a sense of evil in the accusee. and tony is from new york. he would also qualify as someone casey had a relationship with.

jmo

Oh...I didn't know Tony was from New York. The crazy kid!:rolleyes:

[Lapis]

She's obviously guilty. It was said the reason why they don't want to try it before the murder trial is because they don't want a felony charge when the murder case goes to trial.:shrug:

and the state wants the felony conviction before the murder case to use in the murder trial. So who gets the moral highground?

[breezie]

I think the three molestations are fictional, or to create a sense of evil in the accusee. and tony is from new york. he would also qualify as someone casey had a relationship with.

jmo

Since dude has been in prison for a while, it should be easy to check whether Lazzaro ever visited him or wrote him. :rolleyes:

[marinewife5]

Oh...I didn't know Tony was from New York. The crazy kid!:rolleyes:

crazy doesn't begin to describe that letter! :laugh:

[marinewife5]

Since dude has been in prison for a while, it should be easy to check whether Lazzaro ever visited him or wrote him. :rolleyes:

i'm sure :thumbup:

i'm just curious to know if this letter influenced the defense implying that tony may have been the killer.

jmo

also...i found it interesting that author said the alleged molestation charges were dropped (there go those biased police working against casey anthony again)

[Kathlb]

I think the three molestations are fictional, or to create a sense of evil in the accusee. and tony is from new york. he would also qualify as someone casey had a relationship with.

jmo

I'm sorry but I really don't go along with this method and I would have thought that Andrea wouldn't either. I have heard over and over that the defense doesn't have to prove she didn't do it, only cast reasonable doubt.

So what in the world is with them trying to ruin another person's life as attorneys??!! Is it strictly low underhanded meanness? I wonder how Baez and Lyons would like one of their children to get accused by a defense team of murder? Even if they are never brought up on trial, it can ruin their lives. How many lives ruined does it take to let Casey kill her daughter and walk? two; three; four?? The Baez law firm, AL, LKB and the Anthony's should all lose whatever respect and good name they ever had right along with the young lives they are trying to ruin!! :cursing:

[crimeq]

I think Casey used the name Zanny because it rhymed with nanny or it came from the children's book that was posted on here way back when..."Double Trouble" I think was the name of it.

At sometime in Casey's travels or while surfing myspace/facebook she ran across ZG. ZG could have posted it on her myspace she had looked at Sawgrass or someone mentioned it in a conversation that Casey was a part of her overheard. Zanny the Nanny now had a full name - Zenaida Gonzalez.

Casey threw in the Fernandez so she could tell LE that the ZG that looked at Sawgrass LE uncovered during the investigation was not Caylee's nanny.

jmo

Didn't Zenaida Gonzalez' former boyfriend work at the tattoo parlor where Casey got her Bella Vita tat? Casey had been to that parlor many times before, is the impression I got. She could have known a lot about Zenaida G. from the former boyfriend.

[AnniePie]

"Yes, But She Only Did It Once" sounds like it could be the title of Cindys book.

Good one, CC. :thumbsup:

[marinewife5]

I'm sorry but I really don't go along with this method and I would have thought that Andrea wouldn't either. I have heard over and over that the defense doesn't have to prove she didn't do it, only cast reasonable doubt.

So what in the world is with them trying to ruin another person's life as attorneys??!! Is it strictly low underhanded meanness? I wonder how Baez and Lyons would like one of their children to get accused by a defense team of murder? Even if they are never brought up on trial, it can ruin their lives. How many lives ruined does it take to let Casey kill her daughter and walk? two; three; four?? The Baez law firm, AL, LKB and the Anthony's should all lose whatever respect and good name they ever had right along with the young lives they are trying to ruin!! :cursing:

ITA. every word of it

[Kathlb]

ITA. every word of it

:-) sorry to pick your post to respond to marinewife5, sometimes it just has to come boiling out or I choke on it. :tongueside::smile:

[marinewife5]

:-) sorry to pick your post to respond to marinewife5, sometimes it just has to come boiling out or I choke on it. :tongueside::smile:

lol....i knew you weren't dogging me :smile:


i'm not sure what would be worse for jose....that he received this letter and ran with the info without checking it out first, or if he has never seen it before and is now possibly going to be lumped in with this wingnut for suggesting that tony could be the perp. either way, they need to stop throwing casey's former associates against the wall to see who sticks.

jmo

[seeing_eye]

Who loans people their check book to start with? I wouldn't even allow my children to "borrow" my check book. Besides isn't it illegal for the bank to cash a check with someone else's signature on it.

I don't know of anybody dumb enough to loan their checkbook. But I'll bet that's exactly what Baez is going to use as a defense. I guess he'll claim Amy is that stupid.

[desmom]

lol....i knew you weren't dogging me :smile:


i'm not sure what would be worse for jose....that he received this letter and ran with the info without checking it out first, or if he has never seen it before and is now possibly going to be lumped in with this wingnut for suggesting that tony could be the perp. either way, they need to stop throwing casey's former associates against the wall to see who sticks.

jmo

WFTV reported http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Eyewitness News is working to learn what actions were taken on the letter he wrote regarding the Casey Anthony case.

I have this mental image of Kathi Belich with microphone in hand standing outside JB's office door. :lol:

jmo

[5boxersmom]

Who was this letter sent to?

tia

[desmom]

Who was this letter sent to?

tia

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20533041/detail.html

Whom ever is representing Ms. Anthony

[cassidy]

WFTV reported http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Eyewitness News is working to learn what actions were taken on the letter he wrote regarding the Casey Anthony case.

I have this mental image of Kathi Belich with microphone in hand standing outside JB's office door. :lol:

jmo

And Jose slinking out the backdoor :)

[KatieLady]

WFTV reported http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Eyewitness News is working to learn what actions were taken on the letter he wrote regarding the Casey Anthony case.

I have this mental image of Kathi Belich with microphone in hand standing outside JB's office door. :lol:

jmo

The letter is melodramatic drivel IMO

[cassidy]

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20533041/detail.html

Whom ever is representing Ms. Anthony

So was it mailed to Jose? Or to the TV station? Or even mailed at all?

[denjet]

It was DC that provided the fort knox cameras around the A's house not LP.
Hi Really!
Interesting ... didn't know that! I thought that was odd the bond team would do that ... I'm still wondering what the significance of Baez trying to get George to say Padilla and crew communicated with each other using walkie tallkies as opposed to cell phones? Was this to make them look more like a security team? Burdick brought it up again when she was questioning them ...

This whole idea of them being there to "protect" Casey rather than watch her from taking off and jumping bond is ridiculous ... if something happened to her during that time or she was killed, wouldn't they get their money back?

[desmom]

ohhhh....someone tell Stan we're waiting.
<tapping foot>

I agree. It does not look like we are going to hear or see anything today. Hopefully tomorrow.

http://www.inciid.org/forum/images/smilies/z_felix.gif

[denjet]

Inmate Claims He Knows Who Killed Caylee
http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Jerry Jackson's Letter
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20533041/detail.html

Inmate's Mug
http://images.ibsys.com/2009/0824/20533955_640X360.jpg

ETA ~ This man has a history of confessing or being in the know. jmo
Why is this letter just coming out now? If this is the kind of credible evidence the defense is going to try to use, KC's goose is cooked!
What a joke! :tongue:

[5boxersmom]

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/20533041/detail.html

Whom ever is representing Ms. Anthony

So who had the letter?

[desmom]

So who had the letter?

:shrug: The article does not say. http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

[marinewife5]

WFTV reported http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Eyewitness News is working to learn what actions were taken on the letter he wrote regarding the Casey Anthony case.

I have this mental image of Kathi Belich with microphone in hand standing outside JB's office door. :lol:

jmo

I trust Kathi to get to the bottom of this!

[cassidy]

:shrug: The article does not say. http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

This is the 1st we have seen of this letter right? So someone just released it to the press. I'd like to know who that was too. Or did the writer mail it to the press. We need more details! (not blaming you desmom :) )

[Sun]

I have noticed that there seems to be little criticism of the state in their failure to timely file papers. We seem to have a double standard here.

I am sure that should the state prevail in their motion that she will file a notice of appearance in the fraud case. Additionally, I noticed that the court had no problem with her arguing the motion. In point of fact she is the attorney of record in the murder case and the motion has an impact on the murder trial.

I don't comment on people's appearances as I don't judge people that way.

JMO

I noted that the State offered to the court, not a newly signed affidavit from Amy in regards to the criminal check/fraud charges, but instead handed them a document that Amy signed while some time ago. Judge SS didn't seem to happy about that.

[Bala]

and the state wants the felony conviction before the murder case to use in the murder trial. So who gets the moral highground?

Even thou I agree that the state wants to use the convictions so what. What about Amy that's what bothers me. We have no idea of the impact this has had on her life. Why should she have to continue to wait indefinitely to clear her name. If the murder trial was happening soon I'd say wait but it's already been a year and there's no telling when this trial will happen. At what point in time do her rights kick in.

[ttcRider]

Just taking a read down Anthony Lane and came across the hair straightener.... Cindy said that Casey told her she got it from Zanny. I guess that was better than saying she (probably) stole it! :laugh: Another one of Cindy's Zanny must exist - she gave Casey a hair iron!!

[5boxersmom]

:shrug: The article does not say. http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Hmmm. Very interesting. This comes out after what was said about Tony in Court friday.

jmo

[ttcRider]

:shrug: The article does not say. http://www.wftv.com/news/20533924/detail.html

Why does Mental Illness jump out at me? :confused:

[Katprint]

Kat,

my bold: Then why conversely wouldn't making an eleventh hour restitution not show state of mind such as "intent to defraud" and be admissible as well? Does our court system have that level of a double standard?
Yes, there is a "double standard" here. Same as how Casey's out-of-court statements - to the police, to her friends and family, to Leonard Padilla and his people, etc. - are admissible if the prosecution wants to use them against her but not admissible if the defense wants to use them instead of Casey testifying on the witness stand subject to cross-examination.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[Lapis]

Even thou I agree that the state wants to use the convictions so what. What about Amy that's what bothers me. We have no idea of the impact this has had on her life. Why should she have to continue to wait indefinitely to clear her name. If the murder trial was happening soon I'd say wait but it's already been a year and there's no telling when this trial will happen. At what point in time do her right kick in.

The way I understood things, the right to a speedy trial (whether the defense or prosecution) has to be timely asserted. The state's request was not timely made. Therefore, the court must look to other factors. The state supreme court has determined that the same analysis must be made whether it is the state or the defense making the request. AL enumerated those in her argument. The state did not seem to address her argument on those factors. In the affadavit, Amy seemed to be saying that this is causing her anxiety. The supreme court has already determined that anxiety caused to the defendant is not sufficient to support the application, and since the same rules must apply when the state asserts its (Amy's) rights, then Amy's anxiety cannot support the application. JMO

[Eagleeye]

As unfair as it seems there is a ranking of cases in courts. There are limited resources and time. Criminal cases are more pressing than civil cases. Even in each type of cases there is a ranking. Divorces with children are more pressing than divorces that only deal with the division of property. In this instance, the capital murder case is more pressing than the fraud case.

I found myself, as an attorney, a little uncomfortable with the state's argument on Friday. The state's argument in one respect was "the defendant should just waive her constitutional rights to the attorney of her choice and to a jury trial". "Oh and by the way, as an employee of the state I get paid whether I work on this case or another, and I am not responsible for rainmaking, but the defense attorneys should give up other cases and bankrupt themselves and work on this case 24/7."

JMO

Addressing my bold:
Lapis, they have had over a year to prepare for the fraud case. I find it difficult to believe that they would bankrupt themselves trying the fraud case ahead of the criminal. This is a stall tactic to keep Casey from having a felony on her record. You know that she will be sentenced to time served if she gets convicted of the fraud case since it is a minor issue compared to the criminal charges. And lest we forget there are the charges for lying to Law Enforcement as well. This is a simple case of stall delay, stall delay by Baez and Company to get the criminal trial put out as far as possible to challenge the witnesses memory and hopefully to get the media attention on another case. I don't think it will matter one wit if she is tried for the fraud case before the criminal. I think that the Prosecution is right in wanting to get the other charges out of the way so that Judge SS can set a firm date for the criminal complaint and get the show on the road. Damit, get er dun, Caylee deserves better.

[ish]

Who loans people their check book to start with? I wouldn't even allow my children to "borrow" my check book. Besides isn't it illegal for the bank to cash a check with someone else's signature on it.

I would think if Amy wanted to lend KC money all she had to do was WRITE HER A CHECK!! No drama, no cashing Amy's check with Casey's signature, no obvious emergency with AMy out of town and unable to write the check, unless the invisinanny needed a twelve pack of BUD from Target, and wanted to punish Casey some more by making her steal the money from her friend. Yes that might be a defense, Zanny makes her steal from Amy as punishment for being a bad mother and also kills Casey's daughter. Makes sense to me!!:laugh:

[Sun]

8/24/2009 A NOTICE OF PROVISION OF SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY
8/24/2009 A SUPPLEMENTAL STATE WITNESS LIST FILED

Here are some new entries on the Clerk of Courts records in the Criminal Murder Case. And here is an entry on the Criminal check/fraud charges. (looks like the defense filed a last minute amended response. Did we see this amended one?)

8/21/2009 A DEFENSE'S AMENDED RESPONSE TO MOTION TO SET TRIAL DATE

[Lapis]

Addressing my bold:
Lapis, they have had over a year to prepare for the fraud case. I find it difficult to believe that they would bankrupt themselves trying the fraud case ahead of the criminal. This is a stall tactic to keep Casey from having a felony on her record. You know that she will be sentenced to time served if she gets convicted of the fraud case since it is a minor issue compared to the criminal charges. And lest we forget there are the charges for lying to Law Enforcement as well. This is a simple case of stall delay, stall delay by Baez and Company to get the criminal trial put out as far as possible to challenge the witnesses memory and hopefully to get the media attention on another case. I don't think it will matter one wit if she is tried for the fraud case before the criminal. I think that the Prosecution is right in wanting to get the other charges out of the way so that Judge SS can set a firm date for the criminal complaint and get the show on the road. Damit, get er dun, Caylee deserves better.


Please see my other posts. I was not referring to the fraud case alone but to the murder case as well. There are certain things that a defense attorney must do pre-trial. Failure to do so could result in a verdict being overturned on appeal. Call them delay tactics if you wish, I call it zealous representation which the canons of ethics demand. In addition, I sincerely doubt the witnesses memories will be that affected by the delay.

It will matter if she is tried for the fraud case first and this is the advantage the state is seeking. Why do they get the moral highground? JMO

[Katprint]

*Respectfully snipped*
Hi Kat!
I totally understand the legalities ... thanks for your explanation ...
but have to disagree with you when it comes to how this is affecting Amy ... the fact that KC is pleading not guilty to the fraud/financial charges and Amy's been dragged into the murder trial makes it more than a case of slander, to me ... we've yet to see how else Amy will be implicated and Amy's word and good name need, IMO, to be cleared before the murder trial as it could affect her credibility when testifying ... the defense has been attacking everyone associated with KC during those 31 days and I for one would like to see Amy get justice before, rather than later ... this is only being delayed because of the sentencing phase ... most likely KC will plead guilty to the 13 felony charges AFTER she is found guilty on the murder charge ... JMO
I agree that we will be seeing mud flung right and left, landing on TonE, Amy, Jesse and everyone else who had the misfortune to befriend this toxic tart. I am in complete agreement with other posters who have commented on Cindy's amazing hypocrisy in demanding that nobody should speculate about her daughter's obvious guilt but simultaneously encouraging people to speculate concerning the involvement of TonE, Amy, Jesse, etc.

However, as I see it, the current defamation is pretty much limited to calling Amy a liar; unlike Ms. Zenaida Gonzales - later mutating into Z-A-N-Y Gonzales per George even though he never met the imagi-nanny either - Amy has not been specifically named as the person who kidnapped and murdered Caylee. Not yet.

*scratching my head, debating whether to explain the legal theory of "ripeness." Nah.*

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[AnniePie]

I just watched the video of George at the hearing. Sorry, my comments are old news, but I can't keep some of this in!

- I was surprised George wasn't struck down by a bolt of lightning when he promised to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth! :scared: I guess we were right in saying that the re-baptism thing didn't "take".

- Casey O' could not possibly look any worse. She looks pasty and pale and her hair is greasy and horrible. I guess prison life isn't agreeing with her all that much. And whomever it was who provided her with clothing should be shot.

- And did you see her eyes? They've always had that flat, vacant look to them... but now even more so.

- What on earth were Cindy and George laughing about while sitting there waiting for things to begin? I guess life goes on, but it just seemed so inappropriate to me to see them laughing considering what they were there for.

- Why was just George on the stand and not Cindy? I would love to see Cindy up there too spinning a newer version of the truth.

[denjet]

I have noticed that there seems to be little criticism of the state in their failure to timely file papers. We seem to have a double standard here.

I am sure that should the state prevail in their motion that she will file a notice of appearance in the fraud case. Additionally, I noticed that the court had no problem with her arguing the motion. In point of fact she is the attorney of record in the murder case and the motion has an impact on the murder trial.

I don't comment on people's appearances as I don't judge people that way.

JMO
You bring up a point that was made about Lyon NOT being the attorney of record for the fraud charges, then why was she arguing the defense's points ... shouldn't Baez have been doing that? I understand her interest in a felony conviction going into the penalty phase of a murder conviction ... but Lyon didn't file to be the attorney of record ... that with wrong case number, or whatever it was ... so far I haven't been too impressed with her ...
Also, what does her lack of time to prepare for defending KC on the fraud charges have to do with anything ... it should have been Baez arguing that ... IMO

[ish]

Hmmm. Very interesting. This comes out after what was said about Tony in Court friday.

jmo

Interesting, he has been in jail since 2004, but has spoken to the guy who killed Caylee and also has 3 photos of Caylee. I'd say he's right up there with Casey as far a credibility goes.

[Barbara fl.]

I don't usually defend Bozo's actions, but in this case it makes plenty of sense to me. I believe their defense to the theft case will be their claim that Casey did not steal the money because Amy had given her permission to use her checks for a "loan." So, if they maintain her taking the money was a "loan," then it stands to reason that Casey should pay back the "loan" - which is what she did through her agent, Jose.

That said, however, it is my own opinion that it was not a "loan," but a "theft." Good thing they won't have me on the jury!

Well it's a good thing neither one of us will be on that jury :biggrin:..But I still don't understand him paying the money to the bank, she was charged with stealing it, and at that point only the judge could advise how restitution has to be made....and it would have to go thru the court, in other words Casey would have to make the check payable to the court and in turn the court would pay the bank....but Baez paying it up front indicates (to me anyway) that Baez has made that ruling....and I don't think he is qualified....:confused:

[Lapis]

You bring up a point that was made about Lyon NOT being the attorney of record for the fraud charges, then why was she arguing the defense's points ... shouldn't Baez have been doing that? I understand her interest in a felony conviction going into the penalty phase of a murder conviction ... but Lyon didn't file to be the attorney of record ... that with wrong case number, or whatever it was ... so far I haven't been too impressed with her ...
Also, what does her lack of time to prepare for defending KC on the fraud charges have to do with anything ... it should have been Baez arguing that ... IMO

The court permitted her to argue because the disposition of the motion relating to the fraud case has a direct bearing on the murder trial. She was speaking for the entire defense team in that they are concentrating their resources and time on the capital case. The response to the fraud motion was filed with the murder trial docket number by mistake. The court hardly found a problem, alluding he was smart enough to figure it out. JMO

[denjet]

The way I understood things, the right to a speedy trial (whether the defense or prosecution) has to be timely asserted. The state's request was not timely made. Therefore, the court must look to other factors. The state supreme court has determined that the same analysis must be made whether it is the state or the defense making the request. AL enumerated those in her argument. The state did not seem to address her argument on those factors. In the affadavit, Amy seemed to be saying that this is causing her anxiety. The supreme court has already determined that anxiety caused to the defendant is not sufficient to support the application, and since the same rules must apply when the state asserts its (Amy's) rights, then Amy's anxiety cannot support the application. JMO
I thought the state said it wasn't asking for a speedy trial but rather to get the case back on the docket ... also, Lyon was saying there hadn't been 3 continuances on the case so far, but there were 2 in court and 1 possibly in camera or closed session ... does anyone remember hearing that? Have there already been 3 continuances? I'm trying to find out where I saw or read that ...

[ish]

So was it mailed to Jose? Or to the TV station? Or even mailed at all?

Well, now we know what Casey is doing in the courtroom with the pen and pad, besides practicing her Mrs. Jose Baez signature.:laugh:

[Katprint]

I don't comment on people's appearances as I don't judge people that way.<respectfully snipped>

I especially discourage negative comments about AL's appearance because in height, weight, coloring and general looks, I resemble her so much I could be her sister.

Also, I continued to make court appearances while I was pregnant up until practically the day before I delivered. My maternity clothes must not have looked as professional because I noticed a distinct increase in my being stopped by the bailiff and being asked whether or not I was an attorney when I would go through the gate and approach the bench to check-in with the court clerk. Luckily the judges never seemed to care how fashionably I was dressed; they generally focused on the case at hand.

By contrast to AL (and myself upon occasion), Baez is quite a snappy dresser. I guess you can't judge a book by its cover!

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

[ish]

I just watched the video of George at the hearing. Sorry, my comments are old news, but I can't keep some of this in!

- I was surprised George wasn't struck down by a bolt of lightning when he promised to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth! :scared: I guess we were right in saying that the re-baptism thing didn't "take".

- Casey O' could not possibly look any worse. She looks pasty and pale and her hair is greasy and horrible. I guess prison life isn't agreeing with her all that much. And whomever it was who provided her with clothing should be shot.

- And did you see her eyes? They've always had that flat, vacant look to them... but now even more so.

- What on earth were Cindy and George laughing about while sitting there waiting for things to begin? I guess life goes on, but it just seemed so inappropriate to me to see them laughing considering what they were there for.

- Why was just George on the stand and not Cindy? I would love to see Cindy up there too spinning a newer version of the truth.


It was a Friday and they all wanted to get out of court early. With Cindy on the stand, I think they'd still be there.:thumbsup:

[Eagleeye]

Please see my other posts. I was not referring to the fraud case alone but to the murder case as well. There are certain things that a defense attorney must do pre-trial. Failure to do so could result in a verdict being overturned on appeal. Call them delay tactics if you wish, I call it zealous representation which the canons of ethics demand. In addition, I sincerely doubt the witnesses memories will be that affected by the delay.

It will matter if she is tried for the fraud case first and this is the advantage the state is seeking. Why do they get the moral highground? JMO

Lapis,
Most likely you don't have time to research this but is there any precedence that the Prosecution can site for trying the fraud case before the criminal. I lost my access to Westlaw since my attorney doesn't use it any longer or I would look for one myself.

[Barbara fl.]

The court permitted her to argue because the disposition of the motion relating to the fraud case has a direct bearing on the murder trial. She was speaking for the entire defense team in that they are concentrating their resources and time on the capital case. The response to the fraud motion was filed with the murder trial docket number by mistake. The court hardly found a problem, alluding he was smart enough to figure it out. JMO


Hi Lapis,

Could it be that the prosecution wants her convicted of the fraud so that during the questioning and arguements they will be able to show how Casey was defiantely using stolen checks to buy those items from Target and wherever else, while her daughter was missing.....However, if she is not convicted of the fraud charge, those arguements can be objected to....Not sure...

Just wondering....

[Sun]

I watched Friday's court hearing. I listened to the defense saying something about the time and resources necessary to try the criminal check/fraud case before the murder case. ...then I counted all the people sitting over there on the defense side.

Baez
Attorney from Baez Law Firm (maybe Gabrial Adam?)
Macaluso
Lyon
New fellow yet to be introduced (maybe with Lyon?)

All these people gathered to represent Casey during a court hearing to litigate 4 motions. One from California. One from Michigan/Chicago area.

[Barbara fl.]

Who was this letter sent to?

tia

Probably to Cindy......

[AnniePie]

It was a Friday and they all wanted to get out of court early. With Cindy on the stand, I think they'd still be there.:thumbsup:

I knew there had to be a logical explanation. :laugh:

[Barbara fl.]

The letter is melodramatic drivel IMO



In other words B*** S***.......:laugh:

[Barbara fl.]

I watched Friday's court hearing. I listened to the defense saying something about the time and resources necessary to try the criminal check/fraud case before the murder case. ...then I counted all the people sitting over there on the defense side.

Baez
Attorney from Baez Law Firm (maybe Gabrial Adam?)
Macaluso
Lyon
New fellow yet to be introduced (maybe with Lyon?)

All these people gathered to represent Casey during a court hearing to litigate 4 motions. One from California. One from Michigan/Chicago area.

She must be a very important client :rolleyes:...boy are they in for a surprise....Lyons should really have thought this one out before committing herself.....

[Eagleeye]

<respectfully snipped>

I especially discourage negative comments about AL's appearance because in height, weight, coloring and general looks, I resemble her so much I could be her sister.

Also, I continued to make court appearances while I was pregnant up until practically the day before I delivered. My maternity clothes must not have looked as professional because I noticed a distinct increase in my being stopped by the bailiff and being asked whether or not I was an attorney when I would go through the gate and approach the bench to check-in with the court clerk. Luckily the judges never seemed to care how fashionably I was dressed; they generally focused on the case at hand.

By contrast to AL (and myself upon occasion), Baez is quite a snappy dresser. I guess you can't judge a book by its cover!

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Kat, while I appreciate what you are saying, I would bet that you wouldn't wear a jacket so tight that you were about to bust the buttons to court. As a professional, I also appreciate why you would not criticize another attorney for her looks and appearance but there are ways that an oversized woman can dress as to not look slovenly and unkempt. IMO it leaves that attorney open to criticism and doesn't present well in court.

[denjet]

The court permitted her to argue because the disposition of the motion relating to the fraud case has a direct bearing on the murder trial. She was speaking for the entire defense team in that they are concentrating their resources and time on the capital case. The response to the fraud motion was filed with the murder trial docket number by mistake. The court hardly found a problem, alluding he was smart enough to figure it out. JMO
I understand the connection to the murder case, but she is not listed as her attorney for the fraud case and hasn't to date filed to be, Baez is, and Lyon is not employed by the Baez law firm, she's a part of the defense team in the murder case ... that was my point, Burdick did not argue the points for the state's side, another state attorney did ...

[desmom]

Bondsmen: I Wasn't Working For Anthony's Attorney
Tony Padilla Says He Wasn't Part Of Defense Team
http://www.wesh.com/news/20535221/detail.html

[Myka]

In other words B*** S***.......:laugh:

ITA!! and as far as the letter, we could all send letters to Bozo's office, saying we know who killed Caylee.......duh Casey did it

[seeing_eye]

Well it's a good thing neither one of us will be on that jury :biggrin:..But I still don't understand him paying the money to the bank, she was charged with stealing it, and at that point only the judge could advise how restitution has to be made....and it would have to go thru the court, in other words Casey would have to make the check payable to the court and in turn the court would pay the bank....but Baez paying it up front indicates (to me anyway) that Baez has made that ruling....and I don't think he is qualified....:confused:

Barbara, I may be totally confused here, but in my way of thinking it would seem that the court would advise how restitution would be made to the bank if it was proved that that Casey had stolen the money. If it was a "loan," however, Casey could then just take it upon herself to repay the "loan." I think that's what Jose is going to argue in court.

Wise move on his part, I have no idea, but I do think that is his idea.

[desmom]

3 Rulings Awaited In Anthony Case
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/20535269/detail.html

The judge in the Casey Anthony murder case has not yet ruled on three motions presented at a hearing last week.

[Deannalynn]

Bondsmen: I Wasn't Working For Anthony's Attorney
Tony Padilla Says He Wasn't Part Of Defense Team
http://www.wesh.com/news/20535221/detail.html

Don't be surprised if Baez finds someone who wants a claim to fame for 15 minutes. (Who will say they were right there, nothing):glare:

[Deannalynn]

Barbara, I may be totally confused here, but in my way of thinking it would seem that the court would advise how restitution would be made to the bank if it was proved that that Casey had stolen the money. If it was a "loan," however, Casey could then just take it upon herself to repay the "loan." I think that's what Jose is going to argue in court.

Wise move on his part, I have no idea, but I do think that is his idea.

How would that work seeing_eye. Didn't casey sign Amy's check?
How could he argue that?:confused:

[Postergeist]

Interesting, he has been in jail since 2004, but has spoken to the guy who killed Caylee and also has 3 photos of Caylee. I'd say he's right up there with Casey as far a credibility goes.

I think this young man could very well be the soul mate that Casey's been looking for.

They both see and talk to invisible people, they both have invisible pictures, etc.

A regular jail house love connection.

next on the doodle sheet will be Mrs. Casey Jackson

imo

[AnniePie]

Still catching up so ignore me if you like, but I have to say:

Cindy says she teared up because she saw Casey tearing up when George was on the stand? Huh? She was sitting directly behind Casey, wasn't she?

And then she mentioned Casey "sobbing". For Pete's sake! :cursing: We all watched Casey cry (although I should have that word in brackets as well), and she was lucky to have had watery eyes, let alone SOB.

That woman is a maniac. No wonder she mothered a kid like Casey O'Marie. :ohmy:

[101Spots]

I don't know how I missed the pictures of the snake. That was one big snake.

http://www.wftv.com/slideshow/news/20318814/detail.html

wonder what kind if evidence it may have held?

According to the forensic report, nothing. I don't have a link - maybe Desmom does - but it was very cute the way it was worded.

[Lapis]

Lapis,
Most likely you don't have time to research this but is there any precedence that the Prosecution can site for trying the fraud case before the criminal. I lost my access to Westlaw since my attorney doesn't use it any longer or I would look for one myself.

I got the distinct impression from the argument and comments from the bench that this may be a case of first impression. This is also a distinct issue to Florida in most states the prosecution does not have a right to a speedy trial. But if I get a chance I will look and see. JMO

[Postergeist]

Kat, while I appreciate what you are saying, I would bet that you wouldn't wear a jacket so tight that you were about to bust the buttons to court. As a professional, I also appreciate why you would not criticize another attorney for her looks and appearance but there are ways that an oversized woman can dress as to not look slovenly and unkempt. IMO it leaves that attorney open to criticism and doesn't present well in court.

All the books that have been written for generations on applying for jobs, etc. make a point to say that appearances DO matter.

How one is groomed does make an impression, either favorably, or disfavorably. How comfortable would many of us feel if say- our surgeon came in with mechanic's grease under his or her nails, or their nose hair was so long that it blended in with their moustache?

Being disheveled gives the impression that one hasn't taken the time to care and gives me the impression of self-neglect.

Even if a person only owns one blouse, one jacket, one pair of pants- they could carve out 10 minutes of their life to have their garment/s ironed/pressed.

Would it alter my decision as a juror? No- I've been a juror on a capital murder trial and what mattered was the facts presented and if there was enough evidence to find the defendant guilty and should he get the death penalty. While I had a dislike towards the defendant's female atty (he had 2 attys)- I didn't let my low opinion of her factor into the decision making. The other jurors most certainly did notice and did comment on the attire of the witnesses taking the stand.

imo

[seeing_eye]

How would that work seeing_eye. Didn't casey sign Amy's check?
How could he argue that?:confused:

He could say that Amy left her checkbook in Casey's possession to use as needed, but with a promise to pay her back. That's not to say that Casey signing the checks was legal, but that Amy and Casey were not concerned with the "legality" of the "loan." I still think that's what Baez is going to argue as a defense, i.e., that Casey had Amy's permission to sign and cash the checks in her absence as a "loan." No one in their right mind is going to believe such a defense, but I think that's what Baez is going to try.

[Lapis]

Hi Lapis,

Could it be that the prosecution wants her convicted of the fraud so that during the questioning and arguements they will be able to show how Casey was defiantely using stolen checks to buy those items from Target and wherever else, while her daughter was missing.....However, if she is not convicted of the fraud charge, those arguements can be objected to....Not sure...

Just wondering....

I'm not sure that where the funds came from is germane to the murder trial and I would object even with a conviction. The state cannot use the commission of one crime as the evidence in another. If they want to argue that they are related then try them together. They can still show her demeanor while shopping and the types of things she was purchasing without reference to the source of the funds. The only way for them to use the conviction is in the penalty phase as an aggravating factor. JMO

[desmom]

He could say that Amy left her checkbook in Casey's possession to use as needed, but with a promise to pay her back. That's not to say that Casey signing the checks was legal, but that Amy and Casey were not concerned with the "legality" of the "loan." I still think that's what Baez is going to argue as a defense, i.e., that Casey had Amy's permission to sign and cash the checks in her absence as a "loan." No one in their right mind is going to believe such a defense, but I think that's what Baez is going to try.

bolding mine and I agree!

[Lavinia]

I am woefully behind here (baby went back to school :crying:) and I didn't even read the inmate's letter claiming knowledge of Caylee's murder but I will tell you that even in sick call requests from inmates, you had someone about once a week spouting off about "personal knowledge" of who killed JFK, or they were a co-conspirator of Timothy McVeigh's or Jack the Ripper or whoever the murderer du jour was. :rolleyes: The answer was "This is not a medical concern. Please contact your counsel regarding your claims."

NEVER overestimate the mental health status of an inmate. (That isn't meant to be mean, it's actually a sad truth.) I'm impressed, not a whit by the presence of such a letter. I'm sure they have had others and will get more. Oh and Casey will be pregnant with an alien before long. There will be an eyewitness to the insemination. :blink:

(HI everyone!)

[Barbara fl.]

Barbara, I may be totally confused here, but in my way of thinking it would seem that the court would advise how restitution would be made to the bank if it was proved that that Casey had stolen the money. If it was a "loan," however, Casey could then just take it upon herself to repay the "loan." I think that's what Jose is going to argue in court.

Wise move on his part, I have no idea, but I do think that is his idea.


I would assume you to be right...but Casey has already been arrested for the crime, so either charges would have to be dropped or she would have to plead guilty or go to trial.....Had she not been arrested, maybe she could have paid off Amy or the bank...but the state picks up the charges automatically....and the way it will be handled is thru the courts..

In other words, by Baez giving the bank a check does not mean the charges are going to be dropped...Casey didn't borrow the money from the bank, she forged one of their clients signature....the bank can not drop the charges nor can Amy....The charge will read "The State vs Casey Anthony"...so with Baez paying the money to the bank doesn't mean anything at all.....I can imagine that Baez is trying to make it look as though his client is sorry....but if it were that easy..no one would worry about being arrested, they would just pay the person they robbed back and forget the whole thing....

That's not the way it works.....

[Lavinia]

Why does Mental Illness jump out at me? :confused:

Not to fret hon, it's probably just genetic. :lol:

[Barbara fl.]

I'm not sure that where the funds came from is germane to the murder trial and I would object even with a conviction. The state cannot use the commission of one crime as the evidence in another. If they want to argue that they are related then try them together. They can still show her demeanor while shopping and the types of things she was purchasing without reference to the source of the funds. The only way for them to use the conviction is in the penalty phase as an aggravating factor. JMO


Thank you Lapis...makes sense to me.....

[Lavinia]

I think this young man could very well be the soul mate that Casey's been looking for.

They both see and talk to invisible people, they both have invisible pictures, etc.

A regular jail house love connection.

next on the doodle sheet will be Mrs. Casey Jackson

imo

The bride and groom have their bridal registry at The Orange County Jail Commissary.

Needed: 24 pkg.s Top Ramen
5 boxes Pop Tarts
2 toothbrushes
4 pair Tube Socks
2 jars cocoa butter
3 pkgs. licorice
12 pkgs. KoolaAid, pref. Grape
2 sticks deodorant

[Zeus]

He could say that Amy left her checkbook in Casey's possession to use as needed, but with a promise to pay her back. That's not to say that Casey signing the checks was legal, but that Amy and Casey were not concerned with the "legality" of the "loan." I still think that's what Baez is going to argue as a defense, i.e., that Casey had Amy's permission to sign and cash the checks in her absence as a "loan." No one in their right mind is going to believe such a defense, but I think that's what Baez is going to try.


And when Amy says "No, I never gave Casey permission to use my checkbook. Casey stole my money" Then what's Baez going to say?

[cuddlyrunner]

I asked this yesterday but it got missed and as I can't sleep again(it's nearly midnight here) I am reading the boards.

Do you think there has ever been a time where in the night maybe George and Cindy reached for each other and said 'she did it didn't she?'

or do we think they don't even acknowledge it to themselves?

[Lavinia]

And when Amy says "No, I never gave Casey permission to use my checkbook. Casey stole my money" Then what's Baez going to say?

"You will learn to respect me?" :shrug: :laugh:

[Deannalynn]

I said something to that effect the other day. Cindy didn't see Caseys reaction. No way and Casey didn't mouthed I love you. I didn't see Casey make eye contact with Cindy.

I wonder if Cindy said that because in reality Baez is planning to throw Cindy under the bus, too. Baez tells his Client Casey she is to stop talking to her mother and he will just say it was his suggestion so Casey would not accidentally say anything that may incriminate herself.
Maaaaybe, the reason why Casey got a little emotional last friday was because she's planning to throw Cindy under the bus.
I think she loves her dad. I think she and her Dad have taken a lot of garbage from Cindy for years. Screaming, yelling, insulting and telling them both they're worthless.

Think about it, the crowd would go wild if it was known that Casey wants nothing to do with Mom. If that's real than she couldn't have nothing to do with dad either.
Cindy making all that stuff up in front of the camera's.
Boy, the apple does not fall far from the tree, as they say.

Just a wild thought.:unsure:

[Lavinia]

I asked this yesterday but it got missed and as I can't sleep again(it's nearly midnight here) I am reading the boards.

Do you think there has ever been a time where in the night maybe George and Cindy reached for each other and said 'she did it didn't she?'

or do we think they don't even acknowledge it to themselves?

I often wonder this CR. I just wonder if the discussion is verboten as if to even raise the question is a form of disloyalty or if they duke it out over the new events that are uncovered or what. I am SUCH a nosy Nelly and I want to KNOW, lol.

[panokatana]

bolding mine and I agree!

I've been reading a lot lately about where (as some sort of defense) Baez might say that Casey had Amy's permission to use the checks... Wouldn't Amy be called to testify that this is a lie...that Casey had no right to use her checks? What good would it do Baez to even present that theory to the court if Amy can deny it?

JMO

[Deannalynn]

The bride and groom have their bridal registry at The Orange County Jail Commissary.

Needed: 24 pkg.s Top Ramen
5 boxes Pop Tarts
2 toothbrushes
4 pair Tube Socks
2 jars cocoa butter
3 pkgs. licorice
12 pkgs. KoolaAid, pref. Grape
2 sticks deodorant

:biggrinjester: Don't forget the pork rinds..

[Lavinia]

:biggrinjester: Don't forget the pork rinds..

Duh me! The cake will be made from pork rinds, grits and mayonnaise. "Bella Vida" will be inscribed on the top with toothpaste.

[101Spots]

I've been reading a lot lately about where (as some sort of defense) Baez might say that Casey had Amy's permission to use the checks... Wouldn't Amy be called to testify that this is a lie...that Casey had no right to use her checks? What good would it do Baez to even present that theory to the court if Amy can deny it?

JMO

Why, he'd have to point out repeatedly that Amy is ~such~ a liar.


:rolleyes:

[Deannalynn]

I often wonder this CR. I just wonder if the discussion is verboten as if to even raise the question is a form of disloyalty or if they duke it out over the new events that are uncovered or what. I am SUCH a nosy Nelly and I want to KNOW, lol.

I still think Cindy is Bi polar. Cindy gets happy, Cindy gets sad.
Cindy laughs one minute and the next she's in a rage.
I think when Cindy gets pizzed at George or frustrated and they're alone she gets angry at Casey and she does say something to George.

She probably doesn't say it like you did.
She probably goes something like, YOUR LITTLE PRINCESS, YOUR LITTLE MISS BEAUTIFUL. IT'S YOUR FAULT ALL THIS HAPPENED, YOU HAVE BEEN LETTING HER GET AWAY WITH EVERYTHING SINCE SHE WAS A TOT!
Ya see, Cindy does no wrong. Cindy has been trying to straighten the little princess out for years and years and DAD just kept looking the other way. Why, George did nothing to help Cindy with Casey.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yep, I can hear the wench now. Blaming this all on George.

[Lapis]

I've been reading a lot lately about where (as some sort of defense) Baez might say that Casey had Amy's permission to use the checks... Wouldn't Amy be called to testify that this is a lie...that Casey had no right to use her checks? What good would it do Baez to even present that theory to the court if Amy can deny it?

JMO

When this sort of defense is used the defense is banking on the jury not believing Amy. Or not knowing who to believe. If the two stories are just as believable then the prosecution has not met its burden. You have to remember the jury will not hear any of the evidence on the murder. All they will have is the video, which is not being disputed by the defense with this scenario and Amy's testimony. If they can present a plausible reason why Amy would lie (because after Casey's arrest she was afraid she would not be paid back and the only way BOA would reimburse her is to file a police report, or the prosecution pressured her into saying the money was stolen in order to place pressure on Casey in the murder case, or the plan was for Amy to report the money stolen so she could be reimbursed). We really don't know what kind of witness Amy will make. We have yet to see video of her testifying. She could be one of those people who have difficulty making eye contact or could shift in her chair or have a history of such behavior. JMO

[seeing_eye]

I would assume you to be right...but Casey has already been arrested for the crime, so either charges would have to be dropped or she would have to plead guilty or go to trial.....Had she not been arrested, maybe she could have paid off Amy or the bank...but the state picks up the charges automatically....and the way it will be handled is thru the courts..

In other words, by Baez giving the bank a check does not mean the charges are going to be dropped...Casey didn't borrow the money from the bank, she forged one of their clients signature....the bank can not drop the charges nor can Amy....The charge will read "The State vs Casey Anthony"...so with Baez paying the money to the bank doesn't mean anything at all.....I can imagine that Baez is trying to make it look as though his client is sorry....but if it were that easy..no one would worry about being arrested, they would just pay the person they robbed back and forget the whole thing....

That's not the way it works.....

I don't think Baez paid the money to the bank in an effort to get the theft/fraud charges dropped. His purpose was to be able to argue in front of a jury that what Casey did was not theft, but a loan, and that is why she "paid the money back." I'm also not saying that the defense Baez intends to argue at trial is sensible or reasonable. If it was, it would be the first thing he's done that is sensible or reasonable! But I still think that's where he's headed.

[101Spots]

I still think Cindy is Bi polar. Cindy gets happy, Cindy gets sad.
Cindy laughs one minute and the next she's in a rage.
I think when Cindy gets pizzed at George or frustrated and they're alone she gets angry at Casey and she does say something to George.

She probably doesn't say it like you did.
She probably goes something like, YOUR LITTLE PRINCESS, YOUR LITTLE MISS BEAUTIFUL. IT'S YOUR FAULT ALL THIS HAPPENED, YOU HAVE BEEN LETTING HER GET AWAY WITH EVERYTHING SINCE SHE WAS A TOT!
Ya see, Cindy does no wrong. Cindy has been trying to straighten the little princess out for years and years and DAD just kept looking the other way. Why, George did nothing to help Cindy with Casey.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Yep, I can hear the wench now. Blaming this all on George.

I think Cindy ingests too many chemicals.

[seeing_eye]

Thanks Spots. I never understood why they killed and froze the snake in the first place.

Poor innocent snake. And no I'm not referring to any of the Anthony's :lol:

I don't think they killed the snake. IIRC, it was already dead when found.

[seeing_eye]

And when Amy says "No, I never gave Casey permission to use my checkbook. Casey stole my money" Then what's Baez going to say?

That happens a lot in court cases. One person says one thing, someone else says something different.

I'm sure Baez will come up with something. Whether or not it will work is another story!

[marinewife5]

I don't think Baez paid the money to the bank in an effort to get the theft/fraud charges dropped. His purpose was to be able to argue in front of a jury that what Casey did was not theft, but a loan, and that is why she "paid the money back." I'm also not saying that the defense Baez intends to argue at trial is sensible or reasonable. If it was, it would be the first thing he's done that is sensible or reasonable! But I still think that's where he's headed.

I think (that is everyone's cue to roll past if they could not care less about what I think) that they should not try the check fraud charges until after the murder trial. I feel for Amy, but it will do nothing but delay the murder trial. Casey will be in jail until the trial starts so it's not lilke being found guilty of the fraud will get her off the streets and away from society. AND, finally, I do not believe the state needs the fraud conviction to get the murder conviction, and it would almost be sweeter that casey be found guilty of murder and still have to deal with that pesky check writing business. I am by no means of the thought that Amy's issue is trivial, but Caylee is the much bigger victim in all of this.

jmo:closedeyes:

[Lapis]

IIRC dear Lapis, didn't we see Amy in a depo for M&M ?

That was Annie Dowling or Downing. IIRC

[denjet]

I've been reading a lot lately about where (as some sort of defense) Baez might say that Casey had Amy's permission to use the checks... Wouldn't Amy be called to testify that this is a lie...that Casey had no right to use her checks? What good would it do Baez to even present that theory to the court if Amy can deny it?

JMO
Hi panok!
some of us were just speculating as to what KC's defense could possibly be in the fraud charges ... since she's pleading not guilty ... and we all know she was caught red-handed ... boggles the mind ... as far as permission goes, still makes the checks fraudulent that KC signed ...

[happygert]

8/24/2009 A NOTICE OF PROVISION OF SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY
8/24/2009 A SUPPLEMENTAL STATE WITNESS LIST FILED

Here are some new entries on the Clerk of Courts records in the Criminal Murder Case. And here is an entry on the Criminal check/fraud charges. (looks like the defense filed a last minute amended response. Did we see this amended one?)

8/21/2009 A DEFENSE'S AMENDED RESPONSE TO MOTION TO SET TRIAL DATE

Sun do you have a link? Like to read them..

O/T found the millionaire boyfriend Ryan Jenkins who killed Jasmine Fores the swimsuit model dead..was found hanging in motel room..

[Pam1569]

I thought the state said it wasn't asking for a speedy trial but rather to get the case back on the docket ... also, Lyon was saying there hadn't been 3 continuances on the case so far, but there were 2 in court and 1 possibly in camera or closed session ... does anyone remember hearing that? Have there already been 3 continuances? I'm trying to find out where I saw or read that ...

Hi denjet. If I remember correctly the State asked for a transcript of the sidebar discussion for March 25th trial which I believe had to do with the 3rd opposition for the check fraud charges to go to trial. So 2 are on court record but the 3rd was at the side bar and if this is the case the State has 3 tries from the court and denied. Because Strickland was there and waved the stenographer off. So Baez knows that they have done it 3 times but Lyon didn't know. I wonder since this is the case that Strickland will go ahead and set the trial now and make it known in his court order that it was discussed at the side bar on 3/25 and the State has met all requirements. jmo

[Julie Dupree]

When this sort of defense is used the defense is banking on the jury not believing Amy. Or not knowing who to believe. If the two stories are just as believable then the prosecution has not met its burden. You have to remember the jury will not hear any of the evidence on the murder. All they will have is the video, which is not being disputed by the defense with this scenario and Amy's testimony. If they can present a plausible reason why Amy would lie (because after Casey's arrest she was afraid she would not be paid back and the only way BOA would reimburse her is to file a police report, or the prosecution pressured her into saying the money was stolen in order to place pressure on Casey in the murder case, or the plan was for Amy to report the money stolen so she could be reimbursed). We really don't know what kind of witness Amy will make. We have yet to see video of her testifying. She could be one of those people who have difficulty making eye contact or could shift in her chair or have a history of such behavior. JMO

I think this sounds exactly like something that Casey might say. I can see this being the story she told JB about the checks.

[denjet]

All the books that have been written for generations on applying for jobs, etc. make a point to say that appearances DO matter.

How one is groomed does make an impression, either favorably, or disfavorably. How comfortable would many of us feel if say- our surgeon came in with mechanic's grease under his or her nails, or their nose hair was so long that it blended in with their moustache?

Being disheveled gives the impression that one hasn't taken the time to care and gives me the impression of self-neglect.

Even if a person only owns one blouse, one jacket, one pair of pants- they could carve out 10 minutes of their life to have their garment/s ironed/pressed.

Would it alter my decision as a juror? No- I've been a juror on a capital murder trial and what mattered was the facts presented and if there was enough evidence to find the defendant guilty and should he get the death penalty. While I had a dislike towards the defendant's female atty (he had 2 attys)- I didn't let my low opinion of her factor into the decision making. The other jurors most certainly did notice and did comment on the attire of the witnesses taking the stand.

imo
Hi Poster!
ITA ... although I'm uneasy about criticizing someone looks or appearance it does affect my judgement of them, their professionalism and yes it can be very distracting at times in listening to them ... Like Baden's hair all over the place ... simply put it up ... look polished, prepared ... I notice she's got a very nice, updated hair do now ... Now if she can lose some of the bangles, again very, very distracting...I find Lyon's hair to be a huge distraction ... very unprofessional...she could get it under control, trim it, put it up or what ever ... she's not teaching class, she's in court for pete's sake ... it's not like these ladies don't have the money to ... it's not just the defense side either ... Burdick dresses appropriately, but again the hair ... geez ... just look at the difference between Ashton and her ... I guess I just don't get it ... court calls for conservative dressing and respectful clothing ...maybe it's just me but if you want to be treated seriously and with respect, you have to show it too ...
JMHO

[happygert]

I take it no rulings came down today.. Dang was hoping .. Maybe tomorrow..

[denjet]

Hi denjet. If I remember correctly the State asked for a transcript of the sidebar discussion for March 25th trial which I believe had to do with the 3rd opposition for the check fraud charges to go to trial. So 2 are on court record but the 3rd was at the side bar and if this is the case the State has 3 tries from the court and denied. Because Strickland was there and waved the stenographer off. So Baez knows that they have done it 3 times but Lyon didn't know. I wonder since this is the case that Strickland will go ahead and set the trial now and make it known in his court order that it was discussed at the side bar on 3/25 and the State has met all requirements. jmo
Hi Pam!
Thanks ... I knew I heard that and have been trying to figure out where ... so they HAVE gotten 3 continuances ... it bugs me that Lyon's saying that the state hasn't asked for a speedy trial in a timely fashion ... it didn't help that they didn't have a more recent doc signed by Amy ... but it's not like the state hasn't been trying to get it heard ..

[101Spots]

2W4U:

Snake Necropsy (http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/fbireport.pdf)

See page 21.

"Diagnosis: Blunt Force Trauma - Vehicular" :lol:

[happygert]

I must be doing something wrong.. when I try to look up casey's records only one i get it the ZFG case... hate being so computer stupid..ready to throw it out the dang door..:unsure:..can someone help....tia..

[101Spots]

So some one ran over him? and he could have still moved around cause you know the old saying a snake never dies until the sun goes down.

It seems so.

I always back up and hit 'em again for good measure. :sneaky:

[101Spots]

I must be doing something wrong.. when I try to look up casey's records only one i get it the ZFG case... hate being so computer stupid..ready to throw it out the dang door..:unsure:..can someone help....tia..

Are you looking on MyOrangeClerk?

ZFG is a civil case. You want the criminal cases.

Look at the left column. There should be a place where you can check "criminal" cases, and you're good to go.

[happygert]

hey happy! Try looking up Caylee Anthony Vs Casey Anthony. You'll get there then.

2w4u

Thanks..2w4u

[Sun]

I think (that is everyone's cue to roll past if they could not care less about what I think) that they should not try the check fraud charges until after the murder trial. I feel for Amy, but it will do nothing but delay the murder trial. Casey will be in jail until the trial starts so it's not lilke being found guilty of the fraud will get her off the streets and away from society. AND, finally, I do not believe the state needs the fraud conviction to get the murder conviction, and it would almost be sweeter that casey be found guilty of murder and still have to deal with that pesky check writing business. I am by no means of the thought that Amy's issue is trivial, but Caylee is the much bigger victim in all of this.

jmo:closedeyes:

You are not alone in your thinking or opinion.

[CatMagnet]

I think (that is everyone's cue to roll past if they could not care less about what I think) that they should not try the check fraud charges until after the murder trial. I feel for Amy, but it will do nothing but delay the murder trial. Casey will be in jail until the trial starts so it's not lilke being found guilty of the fraud will get her off the streets and away from society. AND, finally, I do not believe the state needs the fraud conviction to get the murder conviction, and it would almost be sweeter that casey be found guilty of murder and still have to deal with that pesky check writing business. I am by no means of the thought that Amy's issue is trivial, but Caylee is the much bigger victim in all of this.

jmo:closedeyes:

I totally agree with you. I think that justice for Caylee is paramount, and needs to be resolved first. After that, fraud matter can be resolved. Also, I would be very happy if the prosecution were to stand up and say something like, "We do not need a felony conviction on the fraud because we've got a rock solid case against her for murder".
Right now, with the prosecution wanting to pursue the check charges, it kind of looks like they're grasping at straws, imo.

[breezie]

Are you referencing weight? 180? In that case I wonder who wins?

I don't know, but I meant I was hoping she'd be prepared, succinct, professional. I found her sloppy. Not the Professor Perfectis Baez and she led us to believe she was at the last hearing.

That jacket was distracting, as was the skirt that was higher in the back than the front. Sorry, Katprint... NO WAY I will ever believe you would appear in court that way. I know enough from following your coverage/opinions of Hans Reiser...