Subject: In America, Crazy is a Pre-Existing Condition

[Sunshine@SC]

A good article about “right wing rage” relating to health care reform but also in the context of history. It's long but well worth the read. It is enlightening just how similar today's "rage" is to the same unfounded "rage" of yesteryear. If the opposers will take the time to read it,and put it in a reality check, perhaps even the opposers will come away enlightened. As I'm old enough to remember most of these past events it was a reminder to be just how absurd it can become.

Birrthers, Town Hall Hecklers and the Return of Right-Wing Rage

By Rick Perlstein Sunday, August 16, 2009 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/14/AR2009081401495.html

In Pennsylvania last week, a citizen, burly, crew-cut and trembling with rage, went nose to nose with his baffled senator: "One day God's going to stand before you, and he's going to judge you and the rest of your damned cronies up on the Hill. And then you will get your just deserts." He was accusing Arlen Specter of being too kind to President Obama's proposals to make it easier for people to get health insurance.

In Michigan,meanwhile,the indelible image was of the father who wheeled his handicapped adult son up to Rep. John Dingell and bellowed that "under the Obama health-care plan, which you support, this man would be given no care whatsoever." He pressed his case further on Fox News.

In New Hampshire,outside a building where Obama spoke, cameras trained on the pistol strapped to the leg of libertarian William Kostric. He then explained on CNN why the "tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of tyrants and patriots."

AND there's more and there's more and there's still more...

[Pat]

A good article about “right wing rage” relating to health care reform but also in the context of history. It's long but well worth the read. It is enlightening just how similar today's "rage" is to the same unfounded "rage" of yesteryear. If the opposers will take the time to read it,and put it in a reality check, perhaps even the opposers will come away enlightened. As I'm old enough to remember most of these past events it was a reminder to be just how absurd it can become.

Birrthers, Town Hall Hecklers and the Return of Right-Wing Rage

By Rick Perlstein Sunday, August 16, 2009 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/14/AR2009081401495.html

<snip>

AND there's more and there's more and there's still more...

You do realize you are no better than those you accuse when you continuously post stuff like this, implying that anyone who disagrees with your point of view falls into the category of whatever insult you choose to use at the time?

You obviously have no desire to rationally discuss the pros and cons of health care reform as it is being presented by the administration when your only contibution is wild-eyed press pieces that we all know is presenting a biased view of what is actually happening.

When I see the kind of rethoric used in your subject line, I know there is nothing of value and what I read will be biased.

I'm waiting for the grownups to start discussing what we can do about health care. I just hope I can hear them over the screaming of the kids.

[Barbara2]

the cap on taxes for the rich is what is the issue with Medicare, they need to remove the caps, the program has been very successful

Do the rich receive more benefits for the extra money they pay? It makes sense to have a cap. Just how many non-paying people do you expect one "rich" person to carry?

[bkwits]

Do the rich receive more benefits for the extra money they pay? It makes sense to have a cap. Just how many non-paying people do you expect one "rich" person to carry?

Just how many poor working class or middle class people have made that person rich? How can a person become "rich" without the labor or support of others in their endeavors?

And what do you mean by "non-paying"? Virtually everyone who works pays Medicare tax.

IMO

[Barbara2]

Just how many poor working class or middle class people have made that person rich? How can a person become "rich" without the labor or support of others in their endeavors?

And what do you mean by "non-paying"? Virtually everyone who works pays Medicare tax.

IMO

How much do you expect one person to put into the Medicare system for no increased return? Do you think the person that puts in 200/ per check gets better benefits than the person that puts in 20/ per check? Do they differentiate the care provided based on amount paid in or does everyone get the same care? How much should one person be expected to pay into the system in order to pay for others?

[Brentwood]

Birrthers, Town Hall Hecklers and the Return of Right-Wing Rage

By Rick Perlstein Sunday, August 16, 2009 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/14/AR2009081401495.html

<SNIP>



Things haven't changed much, have they?

Summerized from you link...

The lockstep strangeness of the mad lies on the protesters' signs -- too uniform to be spontaneous.

Elites exploit the crazy for their own narrow interests

Repubs accuse Roosevelt & Truman of surrendering the free world to communism.

RWr’s state Protestants translation of bible in 1950’s was the hand of soviet agents.

VP Nixon claimed he found in WH…,a blueprint for socializing America.

RW’rs accuse JFK of secretly disarming USA.

1961 version of today's tea parties; "Tom Anderson has turned moderate! ….. I'm for hanging him!"

RW’rs claim access to secret documents from 1920s proving "civil rights movement" had been hatched in the Soviet Union….one frequently read in the South that it would "enslave" whites. Good thing our leaders weren't so cowardly in 1964, or we would never have passed a civil rights.

Widely listened-to RW radio programs had millions believing a facility in AK was being built to intern political dissidents (conservatives), just like in the Soviet Union.

Internment camps for conservatives? That's the latest theory of tea party favorite Michael Savage.

When Adlai Stevenson spoke at a 1963 UN Day in Dallas, a grimacing and wild-eyed lady thwacked him with a picket sign. Stevenson was baffled. "What's the matter, madam?" he asked. "What can I do for you?" The woman responded with self-righteous fury: "Well, if you don't know I can't help you."

Powerful elites -- find reason to stoke and exploit that fear….with intent on forcing different values down others throats.

Proposed "grass-roots" letter manufactured by the (Nixon) WH. "When will you people realize that he was elected President and he is entitled to the respect of that office no matter what you people think of him?"… those fake Nixon letters were a long-term success.

The proposed legislation to help elderly who want living wills/learn their options -- turned into the "death panel" canard.

[bkwits]

I would turn that right around and ask how many people are the rich responsible for with employment, their health care and other benefits?
This class envy will probably be treated under the govt. health plan.
Also, I wonder if you know how high the premium to have Medicare can be? It's based upon your income and deducted from social security payments. So, everyone pays in to Medicare but some pay a lot more for it when they are eligible at 65.
IMO

The employee pays through his labor for his own health care. He just doesn't have any control over it, or get the tax benefit that his employer does. And I wasn't only addressing the people who work for the rich person, but also the people who support him buying or using his expertise or product. Of course, there is the rich person who gets that way from political connections. We all pay for that.

I don't understand the second part of your post. What do you mean about the premium for Medicare? Do you mean the total of what a person has paid in in his/her lifetime until 65? If you mean the actual premiums that one pays for Medicare when one reaches 65, as far as I know, it is the same for everyone. There is no deduction for Part A, and Part B is approx. $120 per month. If you know differently, please enlighten me.

[Jumbo1]

How about we tax EVERYONE equally regardless of what they earn....since what they earn is their personal fruits of their labor and the government is not Constitutionally entitled to it in the first place. How about everyone pay their EQUAL share. How about everyone, regardless of income pay a flat tax rate. How about we start with equality and leave class envy out of the equation?

Great idea! Why doesn't the govt just take the first $50,000 income and allow you to keep all the rest. That would actually encourage everyone to become wealthy.

[bkwits]

The employee doesn't pay with his labor for health insurance. That is a fringe benefit and its value is not considered income to the person or is it taxed as income. I have always thought it should be, but it isn't.

The only compensation a person actually is entitled to earn due to their labor is a wage. I don't quite understand what you mean by supporting a wealthy person by buying their product. You are getting a product in exchange for your money. If you don't want the product, you are free to shop elsewhere.

As far as wealthier people paying more into medicare, they certainly do through the payroll tax. Since it is determined by percentage and matched by the employer (even worse for a wealthier self-employed person) A percentage of $100,000 is far greater than a percentage of $40,000.

Of course, the worker must produce enough to pay for his salary and other benefits. He is not given them. The employer gets to deduct the health insurance he pays for his employee just as he gets to deduct the salary he pays the employee. In an article in the Atlantic Monthly, David Goldhill estimates the average American family will pay $1.77 million for health insurance, medicare and health care.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care/6

[bkwits]

Why do you think the government is entitled to anything anyone earns? How about the government stop taking people's property at the end of a gun (money via threat of IRS) and return to the original intent of the Constitution of voluntary taxation? I do not owe this government anything, much less the first 45K I EARN.:rolleyes:

Oh, you don't drive on the streets and highways that govt provides. You didn't go to public school or state colleYge. You send your kids to private school? No one in your family uses the library or public park? You have your own well and sewer system, not one provided by the community you live in? You see no need for police, firefighters, or a govt. supported military ? You will not collect social security or rely on medicare? In your world there are no courts or prisons? It must be a happy place. :rolleyes:

[theal3]

Oh, you don't drive on the streets and highways that govt provides. You didn't go to public school or state colleYge. You send your kids to private school? No one in your family uses the library or public park? You have your own well and sewer system, not one provided by the community you live in? You see no need for police, firefighters, or a govt. supported military ? You will not collect social security or rely on medicare? In your world there are no courts or prisons? It must be a happy place. :rolleyes:

Well said. IMHO. The poster reminds me of a relative who just before reitrement in the 80s, ask what I was earning, after college and 15 years of teaching and still with kids in elementay and a toddler, and it was the same as what he was retiring on after 40 years of working and he thought that was just plain wrong that I was making at age 40 what he was retiring on at age 65. Apple and oranges I told him my housing, food, gas, utilities are so much more higher than when he was raising 3 kids and my employers pays only half if my insurance, when his paid all etc. Told him we were just above the poverty line for income raising 3 kids at the time, considered low income, never would be "rich" but was gonna do it for 30 years cause love it.

He had worked in several jobs, had graduated from high school, started several businesses and finally worked for last 10 years for someone else before retiring, and did his own thing I guess: a self made man so to speak and smart. So I just said: guess we all make choices. What would you be making at retirement if you stuck with the first job, which he left after 20 years, before deciding to be "independent." His answer: you never look back.

Yes, we all make choices.