FLDS trials 8/17 thru 10/25

[walton]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/aug/10/flds-trials-might-be-held-in-schleicher-county/
Judge: Schleicher County for FLDS trials
By Matt Phinney

Jury selection and the trials for members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints on charges related to sexual abuse of children, bigamy and others will all be held in Schleicher County if possible.

“That’s the plan,” said 51st District Judge Barbara Walther on Monday. “If we get there and it’s not working, we can change if we have to.”

Following is the schedule for trials:
* Raymond Merril Jessop, Oct. 26, sexual abuse of a child.
* Allan Eugene Keate, Dec. 7, sexual abuse of a child.
* Michael Emack, Jan. 25, 2010, sexual abuse of a child.
* Merrill Leroy Jessop, March 8, 2010, sexual abuse of a child and bigamy.
* Lehi Barlow Jeffs, April 26, 2010, sexual abuse of a child and bigamy.
* Abram Harker Jeffs, June 7, 2010, sexual abuse of a child and bigamy.
* Keith William Dutson, July 26, 2010, sexual abuse of a child.
* Wendell Loy Nielson, Sept. 7, 2010, three counts of bigamy.
* Frederick Merril Jessop, Oct. 11, 2010, conducting an unlawful marriage ceremony involving a minor.
* Leroy Johnson Steed, Dec. 6, 2010, first-degree felony sexual assault of a child, second-degree felony bigamy, third-degree felony bigamy and third-degree felony tampering with physical evidence.

[momof6]

I just finished reading Escape by Carolyn Jessop.....I was totally amazed that this type stuff could go on know days and be accepted by the people living this way.

I have not read these threads, so if I'm asking a repeat question sorry.

Are any of the woman being charged for accessory to a crime? In the book Escape, it was like the mom's pushed these girl's to get married to older men and not to ask questions. There was alot of abuse from some of the mom's too. Thanks

[walton]

To the best of my knowledge there hasn't been any charges filed against the "moms" as of yet.

I know that they are still investigating things and they are still trying to piece it all together. There was an awful lot of evidence seized and there was an awful lot of puzzles to put together.

From what I understand the agencies in at least 3-6 states and 2-3 countries are working together.

If you've any more questions ask away. If I don't have the answer I will try to find it.

[Roux]

To the best of my knowledge there hasn't been any charges filed against the "moms" as of yet.

I know that they are still investigating things and they are still trying to piece it all together. There was an awful lot of evidence seized and there was an awful lot of puzzles to put together.

From what I understand the agencies in at least 3-6 states and 2-3 countries are working together.

If you've any more questions ask away. If I don't have the answer I will try to find it.

:seeya: Walton, I'm glad you posted this info. Many people are not aware of what's been going on and it will be a darned good thing for more light to be shed on these evil men.

Momof6, I can tell you that Walton is a researcher extraordinaire. Anything you need to know, she can find out!

[momof6]

Thanks for the answer. I agree about this being a big puzzle. It will take a long while to piece it together.

[texski]

thanks walton for the new thread
the question about the mothers is a very good one. when reading the copies of the marriage certificates filed with the flds you will see the women must have been present as they take place in the homes. and i do recall in past articles they would try to marry off their children to the men with the most influence in the group.
as a mother i find that repulsive, but the mindset of most of these women do not really make much sense to an outsider.

[walton]

:seeya: Walton, I'm glad you posted this info. Many people are not aware of what's been going on and it will be a darned good thing for more light to be shed on these evil men.

Momof6, I can tell you that Walton is a researcher extraordinaire. Anything you need to know, she can find out!

:seeya: Good to see you Roux. My father use to say that I asked an awful lot of questions. My mother said I was just plain old nosey.

[walton]

http://web.gosanangelo.com/pdf/BishopsList.pdf

Here is a partial list that was found during the raid.

This list shows that this group was well aware of breaking the laws.

1. Polygamy
2. Marrying girls underage
3. Having sex with girls underage


Mark Shurtleff from Utah seems to think that breaking the Polygamy law is no big deal. However if he stops the law breakers at this point law number 2,3,4,5 and others wouldn't follow. jmo

Dr. Barlow who also practices Polygamy didn't feel the need to contact authorities when the young girls were coming into his office pregnant.

Sad.

[walton]

Here are some sites that I recommend for those that are wanting to learn more.

Banking on Heaven- film documentary by Laurie Allen and Dot Reidelbach
very good gives an inside look from those that are/were involved.
http://bankingonheaven.com/ Watch the trailer

Sons of Perdition a documentary about some of the kids that have been kicked out or that have left the sect on their own. ( I couldn't find the original site but here is an interview) http://www.plumtv.com/videos/docstock-sons-of-perdition/index.html

Books- While there are many wonderful books out there and more being written may I suggest:
The Polygamists by Benjamin G. Bistline
When Men Become Gods by Stephen Singular

These two books will help describe some of the active players in this story. Stephen Singulars book describes a lot of the activity that has taken place the last few years.

Bens book gives a more detailed list of who is who and why and how. His history goes back further.

On the internet: http://thehopeorg.org/ Loads of information and this group is very active in trying to help. At the top of the page are tabs and each tab containing an awful lot of info.

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/ << lots of info the owners of this blog keep it running smoothly and are willing to share the info as they get it.

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/ << the person that runs this blog is also very good at sharing. Bluesman has a talent of putting the legal talk into words that everyone can understand. Blues also has common sense. Says it like it is and doesn't play games.

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/ Brooke Adams from the Salt Lake Trib. She has been following the story way before it was a story in many papers. Brooke reports both sides and works with photographer Trent Nelson.

http://www.azfamily.com/sharedcontent/southwest/azfamily/features/polygamy/index3.html Mike Watkiss also has been covering this story for a long time. He has loads of information.

Hope this helps.

[juliekan]

http://web.gosanangelo.com/pdf/BishopsList.pdf

Here is a partial list that was found during the raid.

This list shows that this group was well aware of breaking the laws.

1. Polygamy
2. Marrying girls underage
3. Having sex with girls underage


Mark Shurtleff from Utah seems to think that breaking the Polygamy law is no big deal. However if he stops the law breakers at this point law number 2,3,4,5 and others wouldn't follow. jmo

Dr. Barlow who also practices Polygamy didn't feel the need to contact authorities when the young girls were coming into his office pregnant.

Sad.

Also, here's the Texas Dept. of Family and Protective Services Report from the investigation of YFZ ranch in 2008

http://web.gosanangelo.com/pdf/EldInvRpt.pdf

[juliekan]

The Texas Attorney General’s Office filed a response in the evidence
suppression case

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Response_to_Brief_and_Argument.PDF

[walton]

Wow!!

I just read that link julie. I didn't know that there were people hiding in the trees. :ohmy:

I know I've said it before but I am going to say it again.

Texas is awesome! One phone call and the law-enforcement acted accordingly.

I love Texas!

[walton]

While Texas takes steps to get things ready to protect victims and stop the abuses, Utah takes steps to close one eye and protect those that break the law. jmo

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=7646420

Utah's polygamous families have helped create a revamped guidebook called The Primer that they hope will help combat what they consider to be myths and stereotypes about their culture.

The 65-page booklet is designed to give social workers, police and other service providers a better understanding of the tenets of polygamist's beliefs, unique family structures and even their language.

"We're going to continue to have those situations, but that doesn't mean that we can sit by when we are perceived incorrectly and not speak up," said Anne Wilde of Salt Lake City, a plural wife for 33 years and now a widow. "By having a primer that has our input and expresses things the way we want to have them expressed I think is very helpful. It gives us a voice."


Here is a voice: http://www.counterpunch.org/mazur03022005.html

[walton]

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-church-donation-for-ex-polygamist-help,0,4286785.story
Church Organization Offering Sizable Donation to Help Those Leaving Polygamy Societies
Aaron Vaughn Staff Writer

The nation's largest Presbyterian denomination is making a sizable donation to help people after they leave Utah's polygamous communities. The Presbyterian Church U.S.A. is giving $40,000 to a southern Utah based group called the Hope Organization. "We can probably, by the end of this, help a couple hundred children," says The Hope Organization's Elaine Tyler. The grant from the Presbyterian Church U.S.A. will help the non-profit provide life skills classes to people who choose to leave the communities.


Check out the video. This is awesome!! People helping people.

The people working at Hope have worked so very hard trying to get things and monies for those that need it.

[walton]

Texas-SE

Thanks for bringing all the links. In one the links Rod Parker made the comment that Bruce Wisan wanted to sell the Berry Knoll so he could get paid his money.

Rod Parker has been a very active attorney for the FLDS for many years. From everything that I've read he has only represented those that have been accused of breaking the law. Never have I seen him represent any women or children.

He also has helped the FLDS in making from what I understand different leasing contracts.

With all that is going on... All the stuff still in mid air, it makes me think that the FLDS have wasted their monies on this lawyer.

Rod Parker has not worked for free, I wonder why he thinks others should?

[walton]

Appears the Texas Bluesmans has new article on Merril Jessops legal woes over child support, appears that Malonis is going after Merril in Utah as well as in Texas. Can't quote article due to copyright rules, but read it for yourself. http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/2009/08/yet-another-blow-to-flds-merril-ought.html

Another blow to FLDS in addition to sale of Barry Knoll to highest bidder.

LMAO on this one.:w00t:

I love Bluesman. One of the posters at Blues site made the comment that some of Merril's kids could possibly get child support against his social security.

I wonder if Merril worked for companies that paid in? If Merril was self employed did he pay in?

Natalie Malonis is imo extremely smart. Not just book smart but people smart and she is strong.

[texski]

reading the bluesman and enjoying it as usual, then went to some comments, one is so funny i wanted to share. one of the posters was calling the texas ranch the YEARNING FOR ZIPPERS RAUNCH.

[walton]

Brooke wrote in her blog that Seth Cookes wife Sharon died. Seth is Ruth Cookes brother. Seth was in the documentary Banking on Heaven.

Edson Holm also died. Edson is the brother of Richard Holm.

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/

[GossipGirl]

Hi Walton, GardenGirl here, under my new nic.
First, again I must tell you how amazing it is that you so diligently keep up with this. I have always been impressed by you.
secondly, I saw Banking on Heaven, and is the one who died the really sad lady in the stipey leggings?
No, I guess not. I think her name was Ruth.
She haunts me, whoever she is.

I will read your links and info so I can get back on track. been following murders.........
GG

[GossipGirl]

Walton,
I know a woman who escaped from an FLDS-type home in Utah, and have come to feel the women are really all victims. Therefore I'm not in favor of pressing charges upon any but the men. I think it's just legalized child molestation, which morphs into brainwashed adult women.
What do you think?
GG

[texski]

i am not walton, but i do agree that most of the women are more to be pitied than reviled. years of imbreeding, constant brain washing , numerous pregnancys, need to have someone to feed the children, etc. but, i do think that some of them want something better for their children and need to be shown somehow that there is a way out for them.
carolyn jessup had a big advantage of having an education and being put to work, by her so called husband, out in a public place where she could get a taste of the real world. she also had a helper to pick her up, and many other good people to get her a place for the children.

[walton]

Hi Walton, GardenGirl here, under my new nic.
First, again I must tell you how amazing it is that you so diligently keep up with this. I have always been impressed by you.
secondly, I saw Banking on Heaven, and is the one who died the really sad lady in the stipey leggings?
No, I guess not. I think her name was Ruth.
She haunts me, whoever she is.

I will read your links and info so I can get back on track. been following murders.........
GG

Garden Girl :smile:

Ruth was the one that spoke about being beaten for disobeying her father. Ruths brother Seth was the one that was taped talking about the funeral of Fred Jessop.

He was sitting in the car talking about the many things that go on in this culture. I believe it was his wife that was in the car with him. It was Seths wife that died.

From what I understand Ruth is still struggling to see her children. And as far as I know she still lives in the country. I liked Ruth. And I admire her strength.

Edson Holm is Richard Holms brother. Warren tossed Richard out and reassigned his wife to his brother Edson.

It is nice to see you Garden Girl.

[walton]

Walton,
I know a woman who escaped from an FLDS-type home in Utah, and have come to feel the women are really all victims. Therefore I'm not in favor of pressing charges upon any but the men. I think it's just legalized child molestation, which morphs into brainwashed adult women.
What do you think?
GG

If a person really wanted to do some major digging a person could say many of those that commit crimes are victims of their culture. But is it enough to say they don't know any better and let it go at that? I don't know.

What I do know is that many of them knew and know that what they are doing is against the law. I do know that many of them did a lot of things to make sure they wouldn't get caught.

Do they excuse a woman who steals food for her children? Or would they put her in jail?

If the women are allowed to get the out of jail card because the things she did was part of her culture then the same card should be applied to the men. Victims of their Culture.

A person can dance all night to those words and maybe even change the Chorus a bit. But the final line is that they knowingly broke the law and put the Children in harms way.

We try so hard to be politically correct that we are now often times wrong trying to make excuses for those that hurt others.

Those that I would really like to see "punished" are the ones who truly knew better and did nothing, not one thing to help these people. Judges who turned their heads and made light of the subject. Politicians who had their own personal gain in mind and those that just wouldn't do the job that they were paid to do.

To serve and Protect

jmo

[texski]

does anyone know where merrill jessup is living, texas or utah???
i love carolyn jessup, way to go girl.
from reading the book i remember that she worked most of the marriage and every penny she earned went to him. she had to beg and please him in bed to get shoes for those children.
and went on charity help and government assistance to care for them after she left.
if she could get back child support she should make him as pennyless as he left her and their children.

[texski]

i was just reading online a story in the detroit paper about a woman with two husbands at the same time. the headline called it polygamy. i thought there was another term for multiply husbands, maybe polyandry? or something similiar. anyone know. i know we want equal rights but reporters should know better.

[Cheri_G]

i was just reading online a story in the detroit paper about a woman with two husbands at the same time. the headline called it polygamy. i thought there was another term for multiply husbands, maybe polyandry? or something similiar. anyone know. i know we want equal rights but reporters should know better.

Either term would be correct. Polyandry is the term specific to a woman with more than one husband/male mate. Polygamy refers to a person of either sex who has more than one spouse/mate. Polygyny is specific to a man having more than one wife/female mate.

[texski]

thanks cheri, i am a very old, very nosy person. it always amazes me how many things one can learn on these pages.
o/t memo to you and our other posters , today is 9/9/09, i was married on 9/9/50, so it is our 59 anniversery.

[Cheri_G]

thanks cheri, i am a very old, very nosy person. it always amazes me how many things one can learn on these pages.
o/t memo to you and our other posters , today is 9/9/09, i was married on 9/9/50, so it is our 59 anniversery.

Happy anniversary :smile:

[juliekan]

thanks cheri, i am a very old, very nosy person. it always amazes me how many things one can learn on these pages.
o/t memo to you and our other posters , today is 9/9/09, i was married on 9/9/50, so it is our 59 anniversery.

Oh what a wonderful thing :wub:Texski!

Glad to see people here.

Thanks Tex-SE for the update.

Glad to see Cheri posting. Welcome.

Walton? You there?

Don't have a computer right now until DH brings his home....so i have limited computer time...off to read and see if I see anything..

[juliekan]

Breaking News from Schleicher County

The Schleicher County Appraisal District in Eldorado, Texas has denied a request for a religious property tax exemption at the YFZ Ranch.

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/breaking-news-from-schleicher-county/

[texski]

if merrill has to prove that a certain percentage of his income comes from being a clergyman, then he would have to show his income . if he did that, carolyn jessup could jump on that for her child support suit. squeeze the man. i dont think we will hear anymore about an exemption for his home in texas compound.
everytime i go to that texas site i see that looming evil old man staring at me and think of the poor little girls that had to look up at that while he was molesting them.

[Roux]

Breaking News from Schleicher County

The Schleicher County Appraisal District in Eldorado, Texas has denied a request for a religious property tax exemption at the YFZ Ranch.

http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/breaking-news-from-schleicher-county/

All I've got to say is, YAY! :thumbsup:

[walton]

thanks cheri, i am a very old, very nosy person. it always amazes me how many things one can learn on these pages.
o/t memo to you and our other posters , today is 9/9/09, i was married on 9/9/50, so it is our 59 anniversery.


A Belated Happy Anniversary to you and Mr. Texski.

I was out of town doing the Grandma thing. :)

[walton]

I found something in my internet travels and I've been sitting on it for a few days. I wasn't sure if it should be brought over or not.

I decided it should.

On this thread they talk about Joseph Knudson and one of his wives named Linda Earl. Linda was/is one of the "happy wives" from Centennial Park.

http://polygabuse.aimoo.com/category/Laurene-Jessop-followup-will-b-1-324901.html This site had been very active and the blog owners imo have provided much info over the years.


Joseph is the brother to Kenneth Knudson. The two that want to buy the Berry Knoll. Supposedly the only ones who have placed a bid for the land.

Should it make a difference who buys the land? yes? no?

Now remember the Centennial Park was formed when they had the split from the FLDS Church. This is the group that Shurtleff wants to "help". He won't crack down on Polygamy only the abuses in Polygamy. :confused: In essence they get a pass on breaking the law for practicing polygamy but he SAYS he will enforce the other laws.

yeah ok

This is the same group that Mary Batchelor and Heidi Mattingly Kingston belong. This is the same group to which Kenneth and Joseph belong.

[walton]

In December 1989 Mountain States Mortgage directors Dorothy R. Knudson and Joseph Knudson, joined by Joseph's brother Alan E. Knudson, incorporated their own Utah firm called West Star Financial Corporation, thus laying the foundation for an eventual split from J. R. Bills and Mountain States. Alan Knudson, a University of Utah grad, had begun at Mountain States in 1984 as a loan officer and manager of the Sandy branch and had risen to become vice-president. In the early 1990s, J.R. Bills bought out the Knudsons' shares of Mountain States, becoming the company's sole stockholder. Still, Mountain States and West Star reportedly worked out of the same building in Sandy, before West Star eventually left to merge with the VanderFord Company, another Nevada corporation headed by the Knudson family.

more at link:

http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Mountain-States-Mortgage-Centers-Inc-Company-History.html

[walton]

Incorporated by Knudson, Dorothy R., Knudson, Joseph C., Knudson, Kenneth C., West Star Financial Corporation is located at 1725 S Berry Knoll Blvd Colorado City, AZ 86021. West Star Financial Corporation was incorporated on Monday, July 27, 1992 in the State of FL and is currently not active. C T Corporation System represents West Star Financial Corporation as their registered agent.
Source: Public Record data - Department of State - Division of Corporations

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Arizona/Colorado-City/west-star-financial-corporation-2392102.aspx

[walton]

The Vanderford Company, Inc.
Incorporated by Dorothy R Knudson, Joseph C Knudson, Kenneth C Knudson, The Vanderford Company, Inc. is located at 1725 S Berry Knoll Blvd Colorado City, AZ 86021. The Vanderford Company, Inc. was incorporated on Tuesday, May 28, 1996 in the State of FL and is currently not active. C T Corporation System represents The Vanderford Company, Inc. as their registered agent.
Source: Public Record data - Department of State - Division of Corporations

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Arizona/Colorado-City/the-vanderford-company-inc-6285475.aspx

[walton]

Linda Earl lives in a multimillion-dollar, 30,000-square-foot mansion. She says there's plenty of room for more than one wife and many, many children.

"I'm pretty independent," Earl said. "I don't want to have to dote on a guy every night. I don't want to make sure that he has a meal every night. Let somebody else do it that likes it."

The kitchen is the size of a cafeteria. After all, there are dozens of mouths to feed in Earl's home -- from newborns to teenagers.

Thirteen-year-old Derek said he doesn't know how many brothers and sisters he has. "Nobody really knows, 'cause we don't count the numbers," he said.

They say they don't keep track of how many children live here because they are afraid the authorities might charge them with polygamy and break up their families. That's why there's only one "official" wife -- at least in the eyes of the law. The other marriages are only religious.


And further into the story:

The man of the house is a wealthy businessman who did not want to be identified because it could cause him legal and financial difficulties.

"Let's just say I believe that multiple relationships are superior to single relationships," he said. "It's more compatible to the needs of the man; it's more compatible to the needs of the ladies."

He wouldn't discuss numbers, but a relative said that the man has as many as 15 wives and perhaps 75 children.

This polygamous husband also said the relationships are "serious and committed" -- his love life is not one big sex party.



http://i.abcnews.com/Primetime/Story?id=1675606&page=1

[walton]

Susanna Barlow has one father, six mothers, and forty-five brothers and sisters. She grew up in a polygamist family in Utah, part of a Mormon fundamentalist religious sect.

When I talked to her on KTRS/St. Louis, she detailed what life was like growing up with so many people around, the abuse she suffered at the hands of one of the mothers, how they were kept sheltered from the outside world, and how she left that life behind.

Barlow's memoir is called "What Peace There May Be."

You can listen to the interview at this site.

Thanks Paul Harris and Susanna.


http://paulharrisonline.blogspot.com/2009/08/child-of-polygamy.html

[juliekan]

Linda Earl lives in a multimillion-dollar, 30,000-square-foot mansion. She says there's plenty of room for more than one wife and many, many children.

"I'm pretty independent," Earl said. "I don't want to have to dote on a guy every night. I don't want to make sure that he has a meal every night. Let somebody else do it that likes it."

The kitchen is the size of a cafeteria. After all, there are dozens of mouths to feed in Earl's home -- from newborns to teenagers.

Thirteen-year-old Derek said he doesn't know how many brothers and sisters he has. "Nobody really knows, 'cause we don't count the numbers," he said.

They say they don't keep track of how many children live here because they are afraid the authorities might charge them with polygamy and break up their families. That's why there's only one "official" wife -- at least in the eyes of the law. The other marriages are only religious.


And further into the story:

The man of the house is a wealthy businessman who did not want to be identified because it could cause him legal and financial difficulties.

"Let's just say I believe that multiple relationships are superior to single relationships," he said. "It's more compatible to the needs of the man; it's more compatible to the needs of the ladies."

He wouldn't discuss numbers, but a relative said that the man has as many as 15 wives and perhaps 75 children.

This polygamous husband also said the relationships are "serious and committed" -- his love life is not one big sex party.



http://i.abcnews.com/Primetime/Story?id=1675606&page=1

Ever notice how they have such a dim view of the average man/wife marriage?

and from the article:

"I am unwilling to restrict who I love," he continued. "And if I have to choose between loving Sarah versus loving Dorothy, I resent it. And so I will make them the same offer, and if they want to participate, they can. If they don't, they don't need to. But no woman is going to tell me I can't love another woman."

And how does this sound different from Hugh Hefner????? No difference, jmo.

[walton]

"THE MAN" is getting his L words mixed up imo.

Love vs Lust


There are an awful lot of people in my life. Many of them I dearly love. But it doesn't mean I have to sleep with them and make a number of babies.

[walton]

Why are they holding it there?

Would Warren be attending? Or will just his attorney and some followers show?

If they thought security was an issue in a small courtroom what are they thinking? Bringing the show to a University and especially this University is going to cost the tax-payers big bucks for security.

[walton]

The Utah Supreme Court periodically holds court sessions in other locations to provide an opportunity to enhance public understanding of the court’s work and to provide law students with an opportunity to see the Supreme Court in session.


http://www.utahbar.org/news/2007/10/utah_supreme_court_to_hear_ora_3.html


This might work out to be a good thing. I see that they've held other hearings there as well.

[texski]

Ever notice how they have such a dim view of the average man/wife marriage?

and from the article:

"I am unwilling to restrict who I love," he continued. "And if I have to choose between loving Sarah versus loving Dorothy, I resent it. And so I will make them the same offer, and if they want to participate, they can. If they don't, they don't need to. But no woman is going to tell me I can't love another woman."

And how does this sound different from Hugh Hefner????? No difference, jmo.

yes it does sound just like the playboy with his fantasy harim,
but i did not see any mention of religion, at least he does not excuse his lust by claiming god told him to do it. does this group follow the flds leadership and beliefs??

[walton]

To the best of my knowledge yes they do.

The CPark started after Rulons greediness became more obvious. When Rulon snuck in the door and claimed himself Prophet he did the two step and then the Curly shuffle to lose the rest of the command team.

They got fed up with spitting in the wind and started the new group. When they left they took with them the learned lessons and years of experience from watching how to side step laws and work the system to benefit their needs. jmo

[walton]

Texas-SE do you remember the Senate hearing that they held in Texas?

Those guys at the hearing won't let this drop.

I thought the article was really good. I saw some stuff that I hadn't seen or put together.

[walton]

Texas-SE

I was looking for the video concerning the Texas Senate hearing. I found an article but no link to the video.

http://m.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/Jul/24/live-from-the-senate-flds-coverage/

I remember watching the video thru tears. Listening to Dan Fischer, Carolyn and those testifying on behalf of the children. The the things they were saying imo confirmed the "grooming" of the young children.

I was sooo very impressed with those at the hearing especially those sitting at the bench. They asked questions and expected answers. They didn't fall for the Woe is me I don't know what you are asking BS from Willie and the gang.

Do you know where I can find a link to the video. It would be a shame that this video isn't made available to the public. Those kids growing up need to see that there are many many people that tried to help them.

[walton]

When Dan Fischer was testifying his words showed the impact of growing up in such a way. The story about his father was heart wrenching.

Polygamy is rarely ever about consenting adults.


Robert Kirby from the Salt Lake Tribune wrote an article 9/07/07 titled Facing the truth of Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Though talking about the Mountain Meadows Massacre he made a comment that stuck in the back of my head and resurfaces now and then.

These are his words: " Faith can be a tricky business. It's a valuable lesson we should have learned years ago. As we commemorate the 150th anniversary of Mountain Meadows, we can start by realizing that faith is something we owe God, not other human beings."

[walton]

I can understand the members of the FLDS concern.

I think it would be a great idea if 25 or more law students went to the hearings though. They should be able to earn some extra points by attending and sharing what they've learned in their class rooms.

[walton]

Christian groups like this one that separate themselves from society are rarely ever about consenting adults. ( Monogamy or Polygamy )

no one can be legally married to more then one person at once, the second marriage is a religious one only, not legal, as a society we only recognize the first marriage


Well said.

[walton]

Another redhead. :biggrin:

Oscar-winning actress Sissy Spacek is joining the HBO drama for a multi-episode arc as a powerful Washington, D.C., lobbyist, according to the L.A. Times.

:)

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Sissy-Spacek-Signs-1009847.aspx

[texski]

on my google page several papers are reporting on polygamy tours.by a former flds member. would love to see and hear how close to the closed town areas he can go. any of our posters live close enough to take the tour??? i bet grammy bear would have gone.

[walton]

:smile: That is what I thought when I read the story.

Would you go? I would. I think Richard Holm is a smart man. Times are tough and he found a way to make some money. He has been in business before so I am sure he can make it work.


There are lots of places that do the tour our state and spend a day in our history type things. I spent an hour on a Rent A Horse deal out in Washington state.( Beautiful State) Couldn't figure out how to get that horse to move. It just stood there. Wouldn't move.

I asked the guy how to start it and he said "kick it". Huh? Not me. So I just sat there and enjoyed the moment.

I would enjoy the ride and for sure the question and answer part of the tour. Utah has a very very interesting history.


Texski did you see Sissy Spacek is going to be in Big Love? :smile: I am going to have the kids show me how to record on this movie player thing I have. I can hardly wait.

[walton]

Here is the link to the story. I thought I already brought it over.

Those curious about the polygamous community that has thrived on the Utah/Arizona state line for nearly 75 years may now take a guided tour through what promoters bill as "the largest and most secluded polygamist colony" in America.

"Why the prairie dresses and long braids? No makeup? More than one wife?" -- all questions to be answered during "The Polygamy Experience: A Guided Tour of Colorado City."

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_13361089

"All questions to be answered." <<<< Wow!! Heck yeah I would go. It would be my luck the bus wouldn't start and we'd sit behind a local Smiths food store.

But that would be ok with me too. I'd run across the street at a local diner and get some "homemade fresh peach ice cream" or pralines and cream. Top that with all the questions I could ask? Can't top that.

[juliekan]

Here is the link to the story. I thought I already brought it over.

Those curious about the polygamous community that has thrived on the Utah/Arizona state line for nearly 75 years may now take a guided tour through what promoters bill as "the largest and most secluded polygamist colony" in America.

"Why the prairie dresses and long braids? No makeup? More than one wife?" -- all questions to be answered during "The Polygamy Experience: A Guided Tour of Colorado City."

http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_13361089

"All questions to be answered." <<<< Wow!! Heck yeah I would go. It would be my luck the bus wouldn't start and we'd sit behind a local Smiths food store.

But that would be ok with me too. I'd run across the street at a local diner and get some "homemade fresh peach ice cream" or pralines and cream. Top that with all the questions I could ask? Can't top that.

Oh my, Pliggy is doing bus tours?! I'm shocked, wonder if the cops are going to follow them around like they do other non FLDS that come into town?

We're getting close to Oct.... the trials start then... hope my computer is not still dead then.

[walton]

Not Pliggy. Richard Holm

Warren gave Richards wives and kids to his brother and others. Richard Holm is at least trying. He is still trying to be active in his kids lives and he is taking that one and two steps to move on.

Julie did ya see Sissy Spacek is going to be on Big Love? :biggrin:

Check this out: http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_13369041

A man who lost his job in a polygamous community alleges Arizona officials trampled his civil rights and defamed him when they revoked his police certification.

Preston Barlow, a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, filed the lawsuit Friday against Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard, two special investigators and the state's police certification board.

Barlow, 30, alleges the state officials imposed a religious test on his service as a peace officer and misled him about the focus of an investigation that resulted in his certification being revoked in 2007.

The lawsuit also names special investigators John Malkiewicz and Ron Gibson and the Arizona Police Officer Standards and Training Board as defendants.

"This was a pretty clear case of religious discrimination and Preston feels it violated his constitutional rights," said Rod Parker, the Salt Lake City attorney representing Barlow.



Religious discrimination my arse.

[texski]

parker, again. how can he handle all these cases at once?? does anyone from the flds have another attorney ??

the article in the texas magazine was great. but told me a bunch of stuff i really did not want to know about the political fighting going on. the safety of the children was just not that important to many people there. bravo to the magazine staff for putting that in.

as a native texan i am well aware of the macho male and my home is my domain, dont mess with it. the state was founded by people who wanted freedom and no interference from outside sources. i remember as a farm child there when the government sent down some social workers from up north who were appalled that we were running around barefoot and made us all give stool samples to prove we did not have worms. we were running and yelling those yankees women want our poop, go hide. they insisted we needed shoes and we had to prove that we had shoes for church and boots for riding, we just liked to go barefoot.

[walton]

Texski your post made me smile. Going barefoot. Nothing like feeling the earth beneath your feet to make a person feel good about a lot of things.
:)

Texski are those guys that were on that Senate hearing we watched feeling the "good ol boy" attitude?

They really aren't giving up are they? Gov. Perry? The guy that asked Willie to answer the questions? They aren't playing the political game are they? For real?

[texski]

Texski your post made me smile. Going barefoot. Nothing like feeling the earth beneath your feet to make a person feel good about a lot of things.
:)

Texski are those guys that were on that Senate hearing we watched feeling the "good ol boy" attitude?

They really aren't giving up are they? Gov. Perry? The guy that asked Willie to answer the questions? They aren't playing the political game are they? For real?

we have a friend who is in the state legislature. he says that the day after the election you must start running for the next one. so they all play political games all the time. but, those with basic moral principles will always remember that a community must protect the children. i think texas was really trying to do that, but we will have to settle for what we can get. public trials will get out more information about these groups and that is a really good thing. look at the record, texas has done more in the short time that flds has been there than utah and/or arizona have done in years.

[juliekan]

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/2009/09/will-jessop-v-jessop-become-jessop-v.html

Will Jessop v. Jessop become Jessop v. Jessop, FLDS, et al?

Natalie Malonis has filed a new motion in the child support case that does two things. First, it asks for a partial continuance to conduct discovery, and second, gives notice that she intends to bring other parties into the case due to the fraudulent transfer of assets from Merril to third parties.

So it looks like Natalie is about to include such FLDS members as Lyle and Willie, et al, in the case. All will be subject to discovery, and this being a civil case, there is no right to remain silent.

[texski]

that is great news, go after the money trail.
a writer named sarah foster wrote an article on sept 26 , email: onmilwaukee.com, magazine for milwaukee readers. title, polygamy often leads to mind control and abuse.
good article, nothing new for posters here. i did not know that the milwaukee area had a problem with polygamy?? comments on the article seemed to be in favor of leaving people alone to do whatever, said mind control and abuse w as in monogamy as much as it was in polygamy. i guess the new world is whatever floats your boat is okay???
anyone from milwaukee area on this board??

[walton]

Check out the latest. Newest stories towards the bottom.

http://thehopeorg.org/news.html

I've said it once and maybe twice- I love Texasbluesman
http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/
:thumbsup:

[texski]

i think merrill caved in on the child support trial because he got orders from up high, ie prison jeffs, not to let the court start looking into the finances and money transfers of flds. it shows how much they are afraid of someone finding out what they have been doing . hope the feds start looking????

[juliekan]

Check out the latest. Newest stories towards the bottom.

http://thehopeorg.org/news.html

I've said it once and maybe twice- I love Texasbluesman
http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/
:thumbsup:



:wub::wub:

to the Texasbluesman

(even though you're an ou fan)

[walton]

I've been stewing about something for a couple of weeks now but I think I finally got it. This might work for everyone.

I think having an affordable newspaper should be on everybody's doorstep. No matter if it comes via the internet or actually on the door step. There is no way that the every day reader is going to be able to buy every archived article.

The library buys daily newspapers and allow their "members" to read the whole newspaper. Often times a person doesn't even need a library card.

I don't understand the whole AP thing but one thing I do know is that they help get the story out there. So does people sharing from one site to the next.

The AP should be considered the cable guy for the news. Those getting internet could pay an annual fee to have access to all articles. This would be provided by the internet server and the internet server pays the AP guy and the AP guy pays the newspaper.

The newspaper pays the writer and we all win.

I would pay for such a service. But it would be impossible for me to pay for each article I want to read. It isn't just about money but convenience.

Yup, I think I am on to something. Someone else can work out all the details and until then I am going to continue sharing links to articles.

When different news outlets start charging "libraries" for each person to read that same newspaper article read... that is when I will quit sharing.

What do you think?

[walton]

Polygamists Seek Decriminalization Of Their Lifestyle
Family Or Felony? Conference Brings Polygamists, Prosecutors Together To Talk About Controversial Topic
by Ben Winslow

http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-polygamists-seek-decriminalization,0,919279.story

Members of Utah's polygamous communities want to see their lifestyle decriminalized. But it appears prosecutors are reluctant to take any such case to court.

During a conference Friday on polygamy and the law, representatives from the Utah Attorney General's Office, defense attorneys and pro-polygamy activists met at Snowbird to talk about decriminalization and other issues.

Christine Brown, a plural wife and member of the Bluffdale-based Apostolic United Brethren, said she was not afraid to sit in the same room as Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff.

"It doesn't make me nervous at all because the attorney general, he specifically says as long as there are no child-bride marriages, as long as there's no child abuse, he's not going to prosecute," she told Fox 13 News.

[walton]

Shurtleff Meets Behind Closed Doors with Willie Jessop
by Brian Mullahy

http://connect2utah.com/content/news/story?cid=53271

Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff met for more than a half hour behind closed doors Friday with FLDS leader Willie Jessop.


Behind closed doors? What would these two be talking about that couldn't be said in front of the public? Didn't Shurtleff learn anything from his luncheon meetings with another questionable character?

[texski]

I've been stewing about something for a couple of weeks now but I think I finally got it. This might work for everyone.

I think having an affordable newspaper should be on everybody's doorstep. No matter if it comes via the internet or actually on the door step. There is no way that the every day reader is going to be able to buy every archived article.

The library buys daily newspapers and allow their "members" to read the whole newspaper. Often times a person doesn't even need a library card.

I don't understand the whole AP thing but one thing I do know is that they help get the story out there. So does people sharing from one site to the next.

The AP should be considered the cable guy for the news. Those getting internet could pay an annual fee to have access to all articles. This would be provided by the internet server and the internet server pays the AP guy and the AP guy pays the newspaper.

The newspaper pays the writer and we all win.

I would pay for such a service. But it would be impossible for me to pay for each article I want to read. It isn't just about money but convenience.

Yup, I think I am on to something. Someone else can work out all the details and until then I am going to continue sharing links to articles.

When different news outlets start charging "libraries" for each person to read that same newspaper article read... that is when I will quit sharing.

What do you think? i am of the generation that starts my day with the newspaper. but they are getting smaller and smaller and to get more news i go to the internet. you are right, i am not paying anyone to read thier articles. my son tells me that books are also going high tech and will be going the way of the newspapers. i tried to tell him that the feel of a new book, the cover, the smell, make me want to open it and go into another world. will our children lose this , together with reading the paper???
some system needs to be in place to pay the writers, but how ??

[walton]

i am of the generation that starts my day with the newspaper. but they are getting smaller and smaller and to get more news i go to the internet. you are right, i am not paying anyone to read thier articles. my son tells me that books are also going high tech and will be going the way of the newspapers. i tried to tell him that the feel of a new book, the cover, the smell, make me want to open it and go into another world. will our children lose this , together with reading the paper???
some system needs to be in place to pay the writers, but how ??

Everyone needs the same opportunity Texski. We need newspapers. We all should want newspapers. But the newspapers also need to pay their writers/reporters. Instead of being the biggest and best people should be known for being the best.

I get newspapers delivered both ways. At the step and on line. But I also read a lot of other articles on line. Should I buy the whole newspaper? Shouldn't have to. Don't want to. There are some stories that I follow and some I don't. There are some writers I believe and some I don't.

Check this out: http://www.internetworldstats.com/am/us.htm

According to this site there are 227,636,000 internet users. If those 227,636,000 users pay an additional dollar per month to have access to stories and articles and the internet providers could keep a small percentage, newspapers a small percentage and writers/reporters the largest portion.

If a large number of people are clicking on xxx writers story they should be paid accordingly. If no one is clicking on so and so's story is it because no one is interested in the story or is it because no one believes the writer? Let's just say that the writer is known to be a page filler and not known for details, needed information?

Anyone wanting to protect their stories and their writers/reporters would sign up for such a deal. They would be that much further ahead.

I can't even begin to understand the whole computer thing but I know someone out there can. I am almost positive it can be done. Everyone would win.

I am sure that there would be some that would think they should charge more. How much are they getting now? If they raise the price too much people won't participate. Then they would get less than.

Like I said I don't know how that AP thing works but I think everyone needs to join together to make it work.

Reading and sharing stories with other web sites would increase the numbers and increase readers to that newspaper. Can't lose imo.

I personally don't want big newspapers. I want the best. I don't want to waste my time with a page filler. jmo I don't want a big headline with no facts. I don't want a picture with no story. I don't want a story with no picture. With or without the camera. (Some stories can be written without stories and some pictures don't need a story.)

[juliekan]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/oct/02/flds-member-pleads-not-guilty-to-sex-assault/

Judge: Prosecutors can use seized documents in FLDS trialsFLDS spokesman Willie Jessop said he was disappointed but not surprised by the ruling. The defendants will use the argument for the basis of an appeal if convicted, he said.

they must be counting on the Texas Supreme Court to once again rule in their favor. jmo

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2009/oct/02/flds-member-pleads-not-guilty-to-sex-assault/

FLDS member pleads not guilty to sex assault charge

The indictment against the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints member has been amended, prosecutor Eric Nichols said this morning, with the removal of an enhancement that would have raised the offense to a first-degree felony.

Nichols said the enhancement was based on legislation passed in Texas that wasn’t in effect at the time the alleged act occurred, so the allegation against Jessop is now a second-degree felony punishable by two to 20 years in prison. He was previously facing a penalty of five to 99 years.

[texski]

just reading about the upcoming trial in texas. article states that willie has 9 wives???
they must all be good cooks , he has that little round pot belly. what would the other 8 male members who would have married some of these women get???? i am not good at math, but this cannot work in a closed community.

[birdwatch]

i am of the generation that starts my day with the newspaper. but they are getting smaller and smaller and to get more news i go to the internet. you are right, i am not paying anyone to read thier articles. my son tells me that books are also going high tech and will be going the way of the newspapers. i tried to tell him that the feel of a new book, the cover, the smell, make me want to open it and go into another world. will our children lose this , together with reading the paper???
some system needs to be in place to pay the writers, but how ??
I wish the newspapers would charge a small amount for their online papers - just so they won't go out of business. I read my local paper every morning with my coffee - but in the evenings I like to look at the LA and NY papers and others. I just hate it when I hear well known and respected paper has ceased publishing.

[texski]

i do know that some papers are doing that now, making you pay a fee , but i am not familiar with them, as i have not done that. our esteemed "leader" walton will have better info for you later i am sure.
posters here always give us links to papers that have articles about polygamy and i have always been able to read those articles free. the one that needs a proscription that has polygamy info is the one for the small town near the flds ranch. el dorado, i think.
i bet some of us would like to pay for the time of the trial coming up.
walton has an idea that we could all pay a fee and then the writer would ge money anytime the article was read. like the music industry, i think. i think it could be a good idea, but i dont know who would be influential enough to get the ball rolling on the idea. writers guild???

[walton]

i do know that some papers are doing that now, making you pay a fee , but i am not familiar with them, as i have not done that. our esteemed "leader" walton will have better info for you later i am sure.
posters here always give us links to papers that have articles about polygamy and i have always been able to read those articles free. the one that needs a proscription that has polygamy info is the one for the small town near the flds ranch. el dorado, i think.
i bet some of us would like to pay for the time of the trial coming up.
walton has an idea that we could all pay a fee and then the writer would ge money anytime the article was read. like the music industry, i think. i think it could be a good idea, but i dont know who would be influential enough to get the ball rolling on the idea. writers guild???

I am no leader but buying the newspaper on line is easy. I do buy the Eldorado Success and will continue even after all the trials. Besides writing the news, Randy Mankin has a spot that he shares a story now and then. Not a big headliner but usually one that makes a person stop and think. I personally would like to see more from him.

I also get the local from back "home" on line. Getting the paper on line comes out the same day as they print. How cool is that? Years ago I would have the paper show up in the mail and it came when the mail man wanted to deliver heavy bulk. Needless to say I'd get a little anxious and yes, testy.

If they only could deliver that newspaper on line showing up with that 'newspaper smell".

Texski I had to look up writers guild. Kinda sounds like their own little union per se. I am no writer so I am not actually sure how a lot of that stuff works. I just know that I like to read.

I don't know how it all can be done but I think it can be done. I win and they win. Actually we all win.

[Roux]

http://coramnonjudice.blogspot.com/2009/10/what-denial-of-flds-motion-to-suppress.html

Tuesday, October 6, 2009
What the Denial of the FLDS Motion to Suppress Means

In Judge Walther's order, she made 66 findings of fact and 20 conclusions of law. Aside from the obvious fact that this ruling means that the evidence from the search warrants gets into the trials, what does this mean?

Very good analysis by TBM

:thumbsup: to Judge Walther. I also enjoyed last Saturday's comment on Willie. What a bully and how arrogant, but his day is coming too.

[texski]

for those who dont live in texas, the state song says THE EYES OF TEXAS ARE UPON YOU. hello, willie, we are watching you.
this is one great judge.

[walton]

I am still stewing. Went looking for an a piece that Mike Watkiss did about the Polygamy Bus tour. Gone. Then tried to find the piece about Jason Williams. Gone. Then I tried finding the Polygamy Diaries. Everything gone.

:(

We're Sorry.
The page you are looking for could not be found.

If you typed in the address, used a bookmark or followed a link from another site, it is possible the page no longer exists at this location.

[withay]

http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Hispanics.pdf

Now the FLDS is off on another wild goose chase.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, Hispanics are the largest minority in the country, and 70 percent identify themselves as Catholic.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0509fea3.asp

Why would the FLDS want more hispanics, who may be Catholic, on the grand jury? The Catholics I know would not be any more supportive of the FLDS live-style. jmo

I think that the issue that the Defense is trying to use is that the way the jury is picked is not valid because it is not representative of the local population. By the time this could be corrected, the defense will then say that their client's right to a speedy trial is not being met. I think they are just "throwing as much stuff as they can to see what sticks." It sucks but the longer they can postpone this, the more likely it is that they will get away with it. Especially since some of the accused are quite old....if they put it off long enough, they may die first!

[texski]

you are never alone, dont forget that people can be reading, but not allowed to post or not able to right now. we just moved to florida for the winter and got new computer. your news is very important to me and i know to others. got hooked up with internet last night, am looking forward to reading from the tips you have posted.

[Roux]

Several new good articles here...tired of talking to myself, so this will be my last post until someone else shows up to talk to.

http://txbluesman.wordpress.com/

Don't feel like you're talking to yourself - I love all your intelligent and informative posts! :biggrin: You and Walton are so well informed that I feel inadequate to post, but I read.

[texski]

just reading the story about the upcoming trial. that was just posted. i had missed all those shows, .thanks for the update.
does anyone know if the insession/trutv will be covering anything?? any other links to coverage from anyone would be very welcome to me. texas papers/tv stations??

[juliekan]

just reading the story about the upcoming trial. that was just posted. i had missed all those shows, .thanks for the update.
does anyone know if the insession/trutv will be covering anything?? any other links to coverage from anyone would be very welcome to me. texas papers/tv stations??

hi tex...

I know that Walton notified people earlier asking the same thing...I don't know who will show up, but I do know that K Dee says she will be there. Do you do facebook? I just have one, don't really "do" it (post anything). If you join facebook, you can request her as a friend (pm me if you're interested.)

[juliekan]

Thanks, Texas SE

I wonder if my DH loves me enough to let me go? Then again I think the weather is going to be cool, and sleeping in the car might not be so great. :laugh:

[walton]

:seeya: Hey everybody I am still reading. Twice a day. Everyday.

My job has kidnapped me and they are trying to suck out the rest of those working brain cells.

Please please keep posting and sharing what you can.

With each and every passing day I believe that there will be more that comes out.



:patriot: I really love Texas

Julie if you make it to Eldorado or see Randy and Kathy tell them I say hi.

I wish I could be there.