Is Obamacare Consistent With Our First Principles?

[RedSocksFan]

Is Obamacare Consistent With Our First Principles?

The entire purpose of this part of Obamacare would be to take medical decisions away from patients and vest it in a panel of experts specifically designed to be completely unaccountable to the American people. Is this what the Framers of the Constitution had in mind?http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/14/morning-bell-is-obamacare-consistent-with-our-first-principles/

[Lady_Jean_La]

The Founders sought liberty not this. imo

[History Buff]

I will answer this with a resounding NO. If our founders could rise from the dead they would go to Washington and kick some butt. This is not what they intended for this country.

[Carol25]

Health Care Exchange includes the commercial health insurers that have contracted with the government and the public option.

I read that standards will be set and if the insurance carriers detour from those standards, they can be fined, audited our dropped from the Exchange.

Doesn't that sound like the commercial carriers will have to abide by the same standards (some feel could be sub par) as the public otion?

[blueberri]

I agree with you, I am just a little tired of hearing about how the Canadian system would work here (apples and oranges) and how we are scared and uninformed.
IMOAnd you are 100% correct, BO's HC can't be compared to Canada's, in any way, shape or form. Don't blame you one bit for being sick and tired of hearing it.

[blueberri]

I havent directed my comments to those who are trying to understand..and trying to get specifics..and it seems you do fit into that group..and I wasnt blaming you or those that are TRYING..

Having said all that the questions of wanting to know exacts costs, exact coverages, exact anything will not get those answers...why?..because nothing has been decided upon..so much changes almost daily..when you get hundreds of Politicians involved...No bill has been passed yet..and you guys down there only have a provisional presented bill to digest, interpret and judge..yet it is NOT the final bill..Instead..so many interpretations along with spin to enflame is being done to derail the course..

The ' Town Hall" meetings have only shown me just how much mis-information has upset and scared people..I am not mocking nor angered by responses to what US citizens are facing...It is a unknown..and I realize unknowns alone create fears...and those fears need answers..Yelling and screaming..agenda driven comments arent helpful..but it all comes down to trusting the one you voted into office to do the right thing..not just vote NO because of agenda..but vote for their constituent's best interest...This type of change..should never be politicisized...as it directly effects ALL..regardless of your political , economic and personal levels..One can complicate it to death..then one can bring it into a simplistic views...IF everyone contribute..then ALL with benefit!

BTW..I have no horse you your race..and whatever happens does not effect me ( at least HC Reform)..so I only wish to calm some fears or uncertainties..No more no less..I have no affilations with American Resources..or politics...however..I have some appreciated friends ( posters) who I only want the best for!!

LMS Have you read the bill? Probably not, and neither have most Democrats. The people who are against it, like those attending the town hall meetings, can quote it chapter and verse, maybe that's why they oppose it?

[withay]

That is the issue. What does Canada have for a population? 20 Million? I think Australia has about the same but I do like the Australian plan. Its ain't that easy with 300 Million but doable, maybe. There are already in place huge programs in America for children, the working poor, the needy and down and outers. I think the limits for medicaid should be lowered and the Feds put more money in the State programs. Health Care is available to all, by law.

I worked in social services for 20 plus years before I became ill and had to retire. I was the most "over-insured" person you have ever seen because I used to believe that we had "plans in place". Then I saw exactly what was in place and how it worked and how it did not work. There is emergency healthcare available to all, by law by walking into any public hospital...true. But all they have to do is stablize you where you are no longer in immediate danger and then send you on your way. But how about people with chronic illnesses? One I saw all of the time was what happened to uninsured diabetics. They would get really sick and go in the hospital to be treated. Then they would be discharged with enough medication and supplies to last a short time. Until the diabetes had progressed enough to disable them (which is not necessary with adequate care), they would not be eligible for any of the programs you cite. I saw so many people who thought that they were protected by the SSI, SSA, Disability, Medicare and Medicaid or something! And I had to be the person to tell them they were wrong. I sincerely hope you never have to depend on one of those programs for your healthcare.

I do not know if what is being proposed is the answer; I am still reading and researching. What I do know is that what we have has huge holes in it that far too many people fall through and our country cannot afford to backburner this for another 15/16 years.

[withay]

Bt the way, I have a dual citizenship...Canadian and American. I am Native American from a band whose reserve stradles the border. My brother lives in Canada so I am also familiar with the Canadian plan. He has lived in the USA and Canada as an adult and is very gung-ho on the Canadian system.

[RedSocksFan]

It's no wonder some Americans have misgivings or at least want to talk this over. This is the bill Obama wanted congress to rush to vote and pass so he couls sign it into law before the reps went on their break last month. A law he claimed not to be familiar with, even.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

H.R.3200
America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 (Introduced in House)
July 14, 2009

http://www.smallgovtimes.com/2009/07/obama-admits-he%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cnot-familiar%E2%80%9D-with-house-bill/

Obama admits he’s “not familiar” with House bill

TY for the links.

Funny, the people objecting to this bill seem to be the only ones who can actually quote it verbatim.

It looks like the Pres and congress are the ones who are uninformed about this bill, yet they fully support it anyway.

[desmom]

If it were that simple, do you want doctors and ins. companies with years of experience making decisions about your care, or the government with no experience?
IMO

IMO, Doctors recommend treatment. Insurance companies decide if they will pay for the treatment.

Could you point out where it says the government will make plans about by one's care? TIA

[desmom]

It's my opinion after reading the proposed bill that the insurance companies will be so heavily regulated that many will go under. The rest will have to capitulate to the govt. For example, read pages 472 thru 476 concerning seniors, you will see that the end of life conference with your doctor is the government's idea, not the doctor's or the insurance companies'.
IMO

I remember reading something about no longer be able to cancel someone because of illness or deny insurance because of a pre-existing. Were there other regulations mentioned? TIA

Are you talking about the ‘‘Advance Care Planning Consultation" that begins on page 424 http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf ?

This already happens..or it did with my parents the lst time they saw their Dr after the enrolled in Medicare. Under the present program, doctors/staff are only reimbursed one time for this consultation. The new program will allow the consultation to occur every 5 years or more if the patient's health changes.

IMO, it is a good idea. I do not think most seniors would have a clue about how to set up a living will, power of attorney or legally documenting their wishes in the event of a debilitating illness. These consultations

I think everyone has been caught in the middle or know of a family that torn apart over "grandma would not want to live this way".

[drgnrtz]

It's my opinion after reading the proposed bill that the insurance companies will be so heavily regulated that many will go under. The rest will have to capitulate to the govt. For example, read pages 472 thru 476 concerning seniors, you will see that the end of life conference with your doctor is the government's idea, not the doctor's or the insurance companies'.
IMO

and why would anybody want an insurance company that wont or cant provide acceptable levels of care to exist? are you saying the representatives of the government cant have any good ideas to improve healthcare? and by the way it was a republican idea, and a good one.

[Mimi428]

I worked in social services for 20 plus years before I became ill and had to retire. I was the most "over-insured" person you have ever seen because I used to believe that we had "plans in place". Then I saw exactly what was in place and how it worked and how it did not work. There is emergency healthcare available to all, by law by walking into any public hospital...true. But all they have to do is stablize you where you are no longer in immediate danger and then send you on your way. But how about people with chronic illnesses? One I saw all of the time was what happened to uninsured diabetics. They would get really sick and go in the hospital to be treated. Then they would be discharged with enough medication and supplies to last a short time. Until the diabetes had progressed enough to disable them (which is not necessary with adequate care), they would not be eligible for any of the programs you cite. I saw so many people who thought that they were protected by the SSI, SSA, Disability, Medicare and Medicaid or something! And I had to be the person to tell them they were wrong. I sincerely hope you never have to depend on one of those programs for your healthcare.


Thank you!

Every time I see the claim being made that everyone really does have health care, I conclude that the person making that claim does not know anyone with no insurance who has a medical condition that requires maintenance care & daily meds. You don't get that kind of care by going to the ER.

Each state decides who will be covered under their specific Medicaid program. What might be available to someone living in California is not even close to being the same as what is available to someone living in Texas (or any other state). I can tell you for sure that in Texas, working ADULTS do not qualify for Medicaid.

[LizzieCat]

heritage.org, the source of the original post, is a right-wing propaganda machine.

[juliekan]

heritage.org, the source of the original post, is a right-wing propaganda machine.

doesn't make it any less true.....

[juliekan]

TY for the links.

Funny, the people objecting to this bill seem to be the only ones who can actually quote it verbatim.

It looks like the Pres and congress are the ones who are uninformed about this bill, yet they fully support it anyway.

ITA. Only intelligent questions are coming from the informed public.

Maybe if Sheila Jackson Lee could hear better, while in the midst of a question from a cancer patient she was ignoring, she could have found an answer on her cell phone.

[juliekan]

No Reality, I don't need to read another article to know that maybe if Sheila Jackson Lee could hear better, while in the midst of a question from a cancer patient she was ignoring, she could have found an answer on her cell phone. (They have to give them a 1-800 number because they haven't bothered to read anything. JMO)

Or that the most intelligent questions would obviously come from the most informed people. DUH.

[juliekan]

Reality,

you posted this

Quote:
Fear never fails. Americans, burdened with the worst and most exploitative health system of any advanced country, are now being expertly stampeded by the right's campaign that Obama's health plan means that state-licensed executioners will make the unilateral decision to give granny her final morphine shot whenever they think fit. The present system means that granny gets her final morphine shot once her money runs out.

http://www.counterpunch.org/

If this was not a real topic for concern, why have the dems backed off of "end of life counselling"? Oh yeah, they want to get re-elected so they don't have to have the same health insurance we will have.

[theal3]

Reality,

you posted this

Quote:
Fear never fails. Americans, burdened with the worst and most exploitative health system of any advanced country, are now being expertly stampeded by the right's campaign that Obama's health plan means that state-licensed executioners will make the unilateral decision to give granny her final morphine shot whenever they think fit. The present system means that granny gets her final morphine shot once her money runs out.

http://www.counterpunch.org/

If this was not a real topic for concern, why have the dems backed off of "end of life counselling"? Oh yeah, they want to get re-elected so they don't have to have the same health insurance we will have.

Makes no sense. I'm on medicare and same "end of life couselig" is there, it's just that it's not paid for now by medicare, it's out of pocket, legislation would have reinmbursed the doctor. and the elected folks, are not affected by this legislation, they get to keep what they have, as does anyone already with health insurance.

And, it is not backed off: the bill has not yet been written or passed, it's being "discussed."

I'm amazed at the dis information around.