Vick Signs With Eagles

[Dawn]

Foxsports is reporting that they signed a one-year deal, with a one-year option. The deal was reached Tues. and sealed today.

Vick wil make 1.6 million for the first year. The Eagles have an option on the second year for 5.2 million.

Wow!!! Glad it wasn't with my Titans.

[SavannahStar]

:cursing:```````````

[dinojen]

LMAO.. same team that was stupid enough to sign Terrell Owens.. now signs the dog hater... disgusting.. Eagle fans are pretty fierce.. going to love to see how they take this... I hope he gets booed off the field..

All I have to say is it's disgusting...:cursing:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090814/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_eagles_vick_signs

[jaxback]

LMAO.. same team that was stupid enough to sign Terrell Owens.. now signs the dog hater... disgusting.. Eagle fans are pretty fierce.. going to love to see how they take this... I hope he gets booed off the field..

All I have to say is it's disgusting...:cursing:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090814/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_eagles_vick_signs

I was hoping against hope that no team would be sleazy and greedy enough to sign him. :angry::cursing:

[dinojen]

I was hoping against hope that no team would be sleazy and greedy enough to sign him. :angry::cursing:


Philly fans are the best.. ya ever watch the movie Invincible... great movie.. shows how into the team the fans are... I can't believe the Eagles signed this guy...

Check out the comments on this blog.. I googled Philly Eagle fans opinion on signing Vick... it's not pretty..

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dneagles/Eagles_confirm_Vick_signing.html?viewAll=Y&text=#comments

[SavannahStar]

I'm so disgusted. :thumbdown:

[Mimi428]

The Philadelphia Eagles have corporate sponsors. Here is the page that lists them...

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/corporatepartners.html

I will be going to the websites of each of these sponsors & will see what I can find in the way of a "contact us" link. I see no reason to refrain from telling each & every one of the corporate sponsors that I will not be doing business with any of them for as long as they continue an association with people who are so lacking in human decency that they would employ a person with the monstrous mindset of Michael Vick.

Be back soon.

[dinojen]

I'm so disgusted. :thumbdown:

I don't think they had a clue.. they are playing a preseason tonite... check out this link.... I bet the fans are livid... JMOOC..

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txeaglesvicksigns&prov=st&type=lgns

Check out these comments from NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d811df48c/comments/flying-to-philly-reinstated-qb-vick-signs-twoyear-deal-with-eagles

[Ahlou]

YES! YES! YES! Thank you Eagles for stopping the madness. He paid more than most! GO Eagles. YES! YES! YES! Sanity is back at last!!!!

[sunstar]

Well, he might not get to play much ~ :biggrin:

"Commissioner Roger Goodell conditionally lifted Vick’s suspension on July 27, allowing him to sign with a team, practice and play in the last two preseason games. Once the season begins, Vick can participate in all team activities except games, and Goodell said he would consider Vick for full reinstatement by Week 6 (Oct. 18-19) at the latest."

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32410622/ns/sports-nfl/

[Mimi428]

Lincoln Financial Group is a BIG sponsor. Here is the "Contact Us" Webpage...

http://www.lfg.com/LincolnPageServer?LFGPage=/lfg/lfgclient/cus/corp/index.html

Scroll to the bottom - I think I will be using the 'general' contact email address.

94 WYSP (radio station)- here is the page on how to send them an email...

http://www.94wysp.com/pages/1063305.php

Miller Lite - here is the "talk to us" page -

https://www.millertalk.com/TalkToUs/default.aspx

[dinojen]

Well, he might not get to play much ~ :biggrin:

"Commissioner Roger Goodell conditionally lifted Vick’s suspension on July 27, allowing him to sign with a team, practice and play in the last two preseason games. Once the season begins, Vick can participate in all team activities except games, and Goodell said he would consider Vick for full reinstatement by Week 6 (Oct. 18-19) at the latest."

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32410622/ns/sports-nfl/


Thank god... hope he breaks his probation... and goes back to the dog kennels and let them deal with him... I'm sorry.. I just think it's wrong..

People are treated better than he treated those poor animals..

That goes for Stallworth and the rest of the NFL players that think someone owes them something.. it's disgusting IMO..

[sunstar]

Thank god... hope he breaks his probation... and goes back to the dog kennels and let them deal with him... I'm sorry.. I just think it's wrong..

People are treated better than he treated those poor animals..

That goes for Stallworth and the rest of the NFL players that think someone owes them something.. it's disgusting IMO..

I was really hoping he could play all the regular games, especially the one against my Panthers on Sept. 13 ~ you know we've got some great defensive players who'd love to sack him a few times!! :lol:

[Mimi428]

More corporate sponsors -

Sovereign.com - Flexible Luxury Holidays - here is their contact page...

http://www.sovereign.com/contact

Acme Markets - contact page...

https://www.acmemarkets.com/eCommerceWeb/AboutAlbertsonsAction.do?action=getContactUs

Nova Care Rehabilitation - http://novacare.com/email/contact.aspx

US Airways/America West Airline - corporate hdq - http://www.usairways.com/awa/content/contact/generalform.aspx

[Mimi428]

More contact info on the corporate sponsors of the Philadelphia Eagles...

Budweiser - http://contactus.anheuser-busch.com/Email/email.aspx?Site=IB

Pepsi - http://cr.pepsi.com/usen/pepsiusen.cfm?date=20090813

Verizon Wireless - http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/vzwfly?go=/ContactUsControllerServlet

[Mimi428]

7/Eleven - http://www.7-eleven.com/ContactUs/tabid/184/Default.aspx

AAA - scroll to the bottom - http://www.aaa-texas.com/dosearch/contact_us.aspx

Aflac - https://www.aflac.com/us/en/classic/forms/customer_service_contact.asp

Best Buy - http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=cat12104&type=page

[TobyTiger]

I'm so disgusted. :thumbdown:

You are not alone.

[TobyTiger]

More contact info on the corporate sponsors of the Philadelphia Eagles...

Budweiser - http://contactus.anheuser-busch.com/Email/email.aspx?Site=IB

Pepsi - http://cr.pepsi.com/usen/pepsiusen.cfm?date=20090813

Verizon Wireless - http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/vzwfly?go=/ContactUsControllerServlet

I would suspect some of these sponsors may withdraw their support.

My opinion.

[ChocHollyK]

I literally feel sick to my stomach and feel like I'm going to cry...

this is just plain sickening and disgusting....

[Noahs ARK]

Thanks to everyone who posted contact info on the sponsors.

The sponsors that have my business will be LOSING my business.

[True2Blues]

I read on CNN he was signed for two years. It's appalling.

I sincerely hope that the Philadelphia Eagles have the worst season in the history of the franchise. I hope revenue plummets and they go into bankruptcy and that they consistently come in last place.

I also think they should be required to change their mascot to something that isn't an animal, since they condone animal abuse.

[True2Blues]

I would suspect some of these sponsors may withdraw their support.

My opinion.

I contacted Pepsi a week ago, they have signed as official sponsors of the NFL through 2011 and sent me a form letter saying they don't feel they condone animal abuse and would continue to support the NFL as a sponsor. They don't care if people relate the two because they're such a huge corporation. Tropicana, Aquafina, Frito Lay and Gatorade are all part of Pepsi as well.

[Kat4Eagles]

Foxsports is reporting that they signed a one-year deal, with a one-year option. The deal was reached Tues. and sealed today.

Vick wil make 1.6 million for the first year. The Eagles have an option on the second year for 5.2 million.

Wow!!! Glad it wasn't with my Titans.


Umm, thanks , Dawn!!
I just heard it myself and I am in shock.
If ever there was a need for a ::thud:: icon.......
I don't believe it..........out of 32 teams he lands here !!
I don't know what else to say, it is on here on every
channel in Philly right now.
Wow..
Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

I read on CNN he was signed for two years. It's appalling.

I sincerely hope that the Philadelphia Eagles have the worst season in the history of the franchise. I hope revenue plummets and they go into bankruptcy and that they consistently come in last place.

I also think they should be required to change their mascot to something that isn't an animal, since they condone animal abuse.

Wait a minute now, I am upset too but,,this isn't fair.
Don't take it out on me or anyone else who loves our team.
We didn't make this decision.
Had Vick ended up anywhere else, Carolina, Green Bay, or where~ever, I would merely had said this would be their problem......
I certainly wouldn't want your season to end or wish you bad luck.
And, I certainly wouldn't think you or anyone else condones animal abuse.
:(

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Thank god... hope he breaks his probation... and goes back to the dog kennels and let them deal with him... I'm sorry.. I just think it's wrong..

People are treated better than he treated those poor animals..

That goes for Stallworth and the rest of the NFL players that think someone owes them something.. it's disgusting IMO..


Stallworth has been suspended for the entire 2009 season without pay.

Plaxico Burress's court date is set for next week....8/20.

I don't know who else is in trouble...
Kat

[True2Blues]

Wait a minute now, I am upset too but,,this isn't fair.
Don't take it out on me or anyone else who loves our team.
We didn't make this decision.
Had Vick ended up anywhere else, Carolina, Green Bay, or where~ever, I would merely had said this would be their problem......
I certainly wouldn't want your season to end or wish you bad luck.
And, I certainly wouldn't think you or anyone else condones animal abuse.
:(

Kat

Sorry, I have nothing against the team, but I wish no one who embraces him good luck. They've embraced an animal abuser and I see that as condoning his actions.

The fans don't deserve it, but the team needs a knock in the pocket book to teach them a lesson. Vick on the other hand deserves failure and whoever he plays for will pay for it. Nothing personal to you, but that's the way I feel. Living creatures are more important than sports to me.

[Kat4Eagles]

Sorry, I have nothing against the team, but I wish no one who embraces him good luck. They've embraced an animal abuser and I see that as condoning his actions.

The fans don't deserve it, but the team needs a knock in the pocket book to teach them a lesson. Vick on the other hand deserves failure and whoever he plays for will pay for it. Nothing personal to you, but that's the way I feel. Living creatures are more important than sports to me.


I can understand that, but, please, don't think this is something we wanted or asked for.

As far as I know, and I am a very loyal fan, we were not even in the running or interested in Vick, so I don't know what the heck happened..

I am just as sick and saddened by the charges that were made against him, and will never defend him for such.

And, then there will be others who will say he served his time and should be given a second chance.

I guess when they say sports are about business, they mean just that.
This is not a good night in the city where I live and for a team that I love.
:(
Kat

[True2Blues]

I can understand that, but, please, don't think this is something we wanted or asked for.

As far as I know, and I am a very loyal fan, we were not even in the running or interested in Vick, so I don't know what the heck happened..

I am just as sick and saddened by the charges that were made against him, and will never defend him for such.

And, then there will be others who will say he served his time and should be given a second chance.

I guess when they say sports are about business, they mean just that.
This is not a good night in the city where I live and for a team that I love.
:(
Kat

It's always the fans who pay for decisions like this. The commissioner should have banned Vick for life in the first place.

[dinojen]

I can understand that, but, please, don't think this is something we wanted or asked for.

As far as I know, and I am a very loyal fan, we were not even in the running or interested in Vick, so I don't know what the heck happened..

I am just as sick and saddened by the charges that were made against him, and will never defend him for such.

And, then there will be others who will say he served his time and should be given a second chance.

I guess when they say sports are about business, they mean just that.
This is not a good night in the city where I live and for a team that I love.
:(
Kat

Philly fans are like Packer fans.. some of the most diehard fans you would ever want to meet.. just feel bad for you guys.. I can't imagine what that stadium will sound like when he takes the field... unfriggin believable.. what the heck were they thinking... I am so sorry for the fans...

[tinkerbell]

I thought he signed with the Bills along with TO......

[Hanalei]

Great now I have to add another team I hate to my list:thumbdown:


Foxsports is reporting that they signed a one-year deal, with a one-year option. The deal was reached Tues. and sealed today.

Vick wil make 1.6 million for the first year. The Eagles have an option on the second year for 5.2 million.

Wow!!! Glad it wasn't with my Titans.

[Hanalei]

I don't have anything against the Eagle fans I just hate the people that signed him which is the owners and the management of the Eagles. They have no class.


I can understand that, but, please, don't think this is something we wanted or asked for.

As far as I know, and I am a very loyal fan, we were not even in the running or interested in Vick, so I don't know what the heck happened..

I am just as sick and saddened by the charges that were made against him, and will never defend him for such.

And, then there will be others who will say he served his time and should be given a second chance.

I guess when they say sports are about business, they mean just that.
This is not a good night in the city where I live and for a team that I love.
:(
Kat

[Hanalei]

You just read my mind:thumbsup: I'm so proud to be a Charger fan I would have to kick some butt if we took in Vick :puke:


I read on CNN he was signed for two years. It's appalling.

I sincerely hope that the Philadelphia Eagles have the worst season in the history of the franchise. I hope revenue plummets and they go into bankruptcy and that they consistently come in last place.

I also think they should be required to change their mascot to something that isn't an animal, since they condone animal abuse.

[Hanalei]

McNabb was the one that lobbied to get them to take Vick gotta add that fool to my hate list:cursing:

[Meridian]

Wait - so there should be ETERNAL damnation for Vick? Would this be just as it relates to football, or would it apply across the board for any future employment he would ever have in his life? :ohmy:

[SavannahStar]

Wait - so there should be ETERNAL damnation for Vick? Would this be just as it relates to football, or would it apply across the board for any future employment he would ever have in his life? :ohmy:

In my opinion, he should have been banned from the NFL for life. That was a possibility that unfortunately didn't happen.

I don't personally care what he does with his life, employment-wise, as long as it does not include pro football and the millions of dollars of salary that come with it. :cursing:

I don't like the idea of sports figures being animal abusers. Our youth should be able to look up to and admire football heroes.

I really do hope and pray the Eagles have the worst season ever. I hope Vick has lost his physical ability to play ball like he did before this crime happened. And I hope the minute he runs out on the field he is booed unmercifully. I hope Goodell finally realizes that re-instating Vick was a horrible mistake that will cost the NFL dearly.

There, that's my opinion! :cursing:

[Meridian]

In my opinion, he should have been banned from the NFL for life. That was a possibility that unfortunately didn't happen.

I don't personally care what he does with his life, employment-wise, as long as it does not include pro football and the millions of dollars of salary that come with it. :cursing:

I don't like the idea of sports figures being animal abusers. Our youth should be able to look up to and admire football heroes.

I really do hope and pray the Eagles have the worst season ever. I hope Vick has lost his physical ability to play ball like he did before this crime happened. And I hope the minute he runs out on the field he is booed unmercifully. I hope Goodell finally realizes that re-instating Vick was a horrible mistake that will cost the NFL dearly.

There, that's my opinion! :cursing:
Thanks for your honest response. I respect all opinions; just wanted some clarity.

(Hope all is well with you, by the way).

[SavannahStar]

Thanks for your honest response. I respect all opinions; just wanted some clarity.

(Hope all is well with you, by the way).

Hey Meridian! Good to see you and hope all is well with you too.

Well, I am a pitbull owner. We tend to be a bit fierce on this subject!

And you know, with me anyway, it's not that he "just" ran a dogfighting ring...more than that, it's what he PERSONALLY did to some of those individual dogs. Makes me gag and cry at the same time.

It's always been my opinion that a person who could physically harm animals like that is comparable to a pedophile in that this predisposition can never be cured. It's like something is inside him that even THOUGH he may not act on it again in the future, it's still there, lurking. I truly believe this.

I cannot honestly find even one ounce of forgiveness in myself for what that man did. I had hoped he would fade away into anonymity.

The truly GOOD thing that has come out of all of this is a greater awareness of the crime of dogfighting and resulting stiffer penalties and a great many dogfighting rings busted. So, I always say, "those precious pitbulls did not die in vain." :sad: And I do enjoy hearing the stories of the "Vicktory Dogs" that were taken and socialized and trained and adopted by loving people. :rose:

I think it's those DOGS that should be remembered, not Michael Vick, front and center again in the NFL.

[Hanalei]

ITA he should never be able to play football again and doing 2 yrs in prison isn't enough what he did to those poor dogs. He should be forced to give at least 50% of his pay to animal charities. He's a loser in my book and if he comes to my town to play against the Chargers I'll make sure he gets the welcome he deserves:mad:


In my opinion, he should have been banned from the NFL for life. That was a possibility that unfortunately didn't happen.

I don't personally care what he does with his life, employment-wise, as long as it does not include pro football and the millions of dollars of salary that come with it. :cursing:

I don't like the idea of sports figures being animal abusers. Our youth should be able to look up to and admire football heroes.

I really do hope and pray the Eagles have the worst season ever. I hope Vick has lost his physical ability to play ball like he did before this crime happened. And I hope the minute he runs out on the field he is booed unmercifully. I hope Goodell finally realizes that re-instating Vick was a horrible mistake that will cost the NFL dearly.

There, that's my opinion! :cursing:

[Beach]

Thanks to everyone who posted contact info on the sponsors.

The sponsors that have my business will be LOSING my business.

I agree with you, Noah. They will be losing my business as well.

[dinojen]

Check this out... and look at the percentages on the vote..

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/14/pink-to-vick-i-hope-the-fans-tear-you-apart/

[SavannahStar]

Check this out... and look at the percentages on the vote..

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/14/pink-to-vick-i-hope-the-fans-tear-you-apart/


~~~~:thumbup:~~~~

[R~O~S]

Check this out... and look at the percentages on the vote..

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/14/pink-to-vick-i-hope-the-fans-tear-you-apart/

Never heard of her, yes I'm still stuck in the 70's and 80's musically, I'm very happy there. But, I'm gonna have some free cash now that I won't be patronizing any of the Eagle's sponsors.

There's a house full of teens across the street, betcha they could all use a copy of Funhouse, nieces, nephews. lol

[Rangerx1]

Never heard of her, yes I'm still stuck in the 70's and 80's musically, I'm very happy there. But, I'm gonna have some free cash now that I won't be patronizing any of the Eagle's sponsors.

There's a house full of teens across the street, betcha they could all use a copy of Funhouse, nieces, nephews. lol

I agree. I'm also more into 70/80's music. I've heard the name Pink, but have no clue on music. Just glad to see high profile people speaking out. This one comment has spread to many people already. Hopefully more follow suit.

[5boxersmom]

In my opinion, he should have been banned from the NFL for life. That was a possibility that unfortunately didn't happen.

I don't personally care what he does with his life, employment-wise, as long as it does not include pro football and the millions of dollars of salary that come with it. :cursing:

I don't like the idea of sports figures being animal abusers. Our youth should be able to look up to and admire football heroes.

I really do hope and pray the Eagles have the worst season ever. I hope Vick has lost his physical ability to play ball like he did before this crime happened. And I hope the minute he runs out on the field he is booed unmercifully. I hope Goodell finally realizes that re-instating Vick was a horrible mistake that will cost the NFL dearly.

There, that's my opinion! :cursing:

ITA. I mean come on Pete Rose got banned for life for gambling on baseball. I think this is alot worse. He hurt innocent animals. Not once but several times. Just makes me sick.

Just have to hit them in the pocket books to make them understand we don't want him in Football.

jmo

[True2Blues]

ITA. I mean come on Pete Rose got banned for life for gambling on baseball. I think this is alot worse. He hurt innocent animals. Not once but several times. Just makes me sick.

Just have to hit them in the pocket books to make them understand we don't want him in Football.

jmo

It's all they understand.

[History Buff]

I know I'm going to be in the minority for saying this and it isn't going to be PC but I'm going to say it anyway, I couldn't careless that they signed him. As disgusting and repulsive as what he did was he did take the punishment that was given to him and took responsibility for his actions. Do ya'll not believe in second chances? He probably would have gotten lesser punishment if he had hurt or killed a fellow human being.

[Noahs ARK]

He probably would have gotten lesser punishment if he had hurt or killed a fellow human being.

If he'd killed as many people as he did dogs, he would be on death row right now.

Anyone remember how many dogs he killed?

[History Buff]

I love animals as much as the next person and what he did is disgusting but come on, it's been what, two or three years? I'm sorry but there are bigger fish to fry IMO.

[ChocHollyK]

ITA. I mean come on Pete Rose got banned for life for gambling on baseball. I think this is alot worse. He hurt innocent animals. Not once but several times. Just makes me sick.

Just have to hit them in the pocket books to make them understand we don't want him in Football.

jmo

Amen!!!!

I also hope and pray that the booing and ranting is soooo loud when Vick enters the stadium, that we won't even be able to hear the announcers.

Except for the fact that I'm sure they are beefing up security for fans who may be tempted to throw stuff onto the field and to hold up anti-Vick signs, I would LOVE to see that happen.... throw stuffed dogs all over the damn place....
just in honor of the dirty dog that's returning to the NFL and the Philly Eagles..

I'm going to be sick....

[SavannahStar]

I love animals as much as the next person and what he did is disgusting but come on, it's been what, two or three years? I'm sorry but there are bigger fish to fry IMO.

No. I'm sorry. This is a HUGE issue to many people. If you don't agree, fine. But don't tell me what fish need to be fried, by ME. I don't care if this crime happened two years, three years, ten years or twenty years ago.

[True2Blues]

No. I'm sorry. This is a HUGE issue to many people. If you don't agree, fine. But don't tell me what fish need to be fried, by ME. I don't care if this crime happened two years, three years, ten years or twenty years ago.

I don't care either. Time won't change what he did and he doesn't deserve to be rewarded for torturing and killing innocent animals. It also won't change the fact that he's perfectly capable of doing the same or worse again.

I've yet to to see any true remorse. He wanted his career and all it's perks back, and was willing to say anything to get it. He walked out of prison as arrogant and unrepentant as he went in.

I don't think children need to see that people like Vick can get rewarded for doing reprehensible things. I don't think children should be exposed to him at all, yet professional athletes do a lot of work with children. I don't see Vick opting out on a chance for exposure. Comforting thought, isn't it?

[SavannahStar]

I don't care either. Time won't change what he did and he doesn't deserve to be rewarded for torturing and killing innocent animals. It also won't change the fact that he's perfectly capable of doing the same or worse again.

I've yet to to see any true remorse. He wanted his career and all it's perks back, and was willing to say anything to get it. He walked out of prison as arrogant and unrepentant as he went in.

I don't think children need to see that people like Vick can get rewarded for doing reprehensible things. I don't think children should be exposed to him at all, yet professional athletes do a lot of work with children. I don't see Vick opting out on a chance for exposure. Comforting thought, isn't it?

I'm really praying he fails MISERABLY at this stint in the NFL. He could and should just get a job elsewhere and fade away into the sunset. Maybe as a street cleaner in some obscure city. :tonguewag:

[5boxersmom]

I'm really praying he fails MISERABLY at this stint in the NFL. He could and should just get a job elsewhere and fade away into the sunset. Maybe as a street cleaner in some obscure city. :tonguewag:

Or cleaning up dog poo. :wink:

He is not sorry for what he did just sorry he got caught, like most criminals.

jmo

[Noahs ARK]

I've changed my mind.

I think he should be allowed to play, as long as he has to play by the same rules that his dogs played by.

IIRC they were beaten, drowned, hanged or electrocuted if they didn't perform.

I can live with those contract rules.

[daniel green]

I'm so disgusted. :thumbdown:

And angry. I remember when it first came out about his drowning those helpless dogs and electrocuting them and my family talking about how he would never play again. My son and husband were the only ones who said he would.

Anyone want to read something that is a true eye-opener, read "The Criminals in the NFL."

[daniel green]

Just remember that this is the man who had the teeth PULLED out of his female dogs (all the teeth) so that they would not attack the dogs he forcefully had mount them.

[Clara Harris]

I know I'm going to be in the minority for saying this and it isn't going to be PC but I'm going to say it anyway, I couldn't careless that they signed him. As disgusting and repulsive as what he did was he did take the punishment that was given to him and took responsibility for his actions. Do ya'll not believe in second chances? He probably would have gotten lesser punishment if he had hurt or killed a fellow human being.


I am going to join the minority with you. I despise what he has done. But he has paid his dues and will determine his own destiny.

The drunk NFL player that mowed down the pedestrian in Miami got what? 30 or 60 days off season. The former NBA player that killed someone in his house is still free (Jasyon Blair??) The steroids. The domestic violence that goes unpunished. How many baseball players go back home to PR or DR and participate in their culture's version of animal cruelty like cockfighting? Pac Man Jones. Ray Lewis. Plaxico Burrell.

I adore animals. But I don't place a higher value on animals than I do on humans. When I see the same outcry and demand for justice regarding human life, I will ramp up my dislike for Michael Vick. Everyone and every animal deserves to be treated with dignity but until it is reality, I will have to set my own priorities.

[Clara Harris]

In my opinion, he should have been banned from the NFL for life. That was a possibility that unfortunately didn't happen.

I don't personally care what he does with his life, employment-wise, as long as it does not include pro football and the millions of dollars of salary that come with it. :cursing:

I don't like the idea of sports figures being animal abusers. Our youth should be able to look up to and admire football heroes.

I really do hope and pray the Eagles have the worst season ever. I hope Vick has lost his physical ability to play ball like he did before this crime happened. And I hope the minute he runs out on the field he is booed unmercifully. I hope Goodell finally realizes that re-instating Vick was a horrible mistake that will cost the NFL dearly.

There, that's my opinion! :cursing:

Hello, SS. I admire your passion. I have a question tho. Does it bother you that no one else was punished? All the parties that provided information were basically exempt from prosecution? The kennel competed with other operations. Vick wasn't the only one funding illegal operations. Aren't you concerned about the other dog breeders that haven't been penalized? Are they still in operation?

Vick was severly penalized. Maybe even used as an example. Do you think he might breed and illegally operate again?

I am not endorsing him. But I am willing to give him a 2nd chance. He has paid his dues. He'll either rehabilitate as intended or he will fall in disgrace. Again. But at least I think he should be allowed to try. I certainly respect your right to disagree. woof!

[apothecary]

Wait - so there should be ETERNAL damnation for Vick? Would this be just as it relates to football, or would it apply across the board for any future employment he would ever have in his life? :ohmy:
I agree,he does deserve a second chance and maybe prove to all that he learned something.He is on probation is he not?

[R~O~S]

I agree,he does deserve a second chance and maybe prove to all that he learned something.He is on probation is he not?

Sure, just as soon as the four dogs he admitted personally killing by slamming their bodies to the ground, hanging & electrocuting get a second chance at a life without being tortured.

He admitted to four, but getting him to tell the truth was something of a feat.

He had no remorse, he admitted to nothing until he knew his accomplices were going to spill their guts and even then he had a very difficult time with it, negotiating what he'd admit.

The man personally took pleasure in killing animals, he admitted to four, he's responsible for every animal hurt, tortured and killed under his financing.


Chokholly: The fans can boo, hiss and hold signs, those things they won't stop, they'll draw the line at throwing things & they'll probably increase security entering the stadium to protect against it.

Different stadiums have different levels of security, Patriots fans get patted down before every game, pockets emptied, pocketbooks searched and you can't bring in a pocketbook or bag larger than 8-1/2 X 11", no coolers or duffel bags or anything like that allowed. That's been the procedure since 911.

[GentleBreeze]

I am going to join the minority with you. I despise what he has done. But he has paid his dues and will determine his own destiny.

The drunk NFL player that mowed down the pedestrian in Miami got what? 30 or 60 days off season. The former NBA player that killed someone in his house is still free (Jasyon Blair??) The steroids. The domestic violence that goes unpunished. How many baseball players go back home to PR or DR and participate in their culture's version of animal cruelty like cockfighting? Pac Man Jones. Ray Lewis. Plaxico Burrell.

I adore animals. But I don't place a higher value on animals than I do on humans. When I see the same outcry and demand for justice regarding human life, I will ramp up my dislike for Michael Vick. Everyone and every animal deserves to be treated with dignity but until it is reality, I will have to set my own priorities.


I know also my opinion will not sit well with the majority but what I see happening in our society is so much outrage and vindictive anger that seems to never quell. I find that sad and sort of frightening that no longer are we willing to give someone a second chance and wait and see if they pass muster or not.

I am such a deep animal lover. My entire life shows nothing but by the countless animals I have adopted, loved, cared for as if they were my own human babies but I put even more value on human life. If pedophiles can walk away with just probation and go on their way to live out their lives then I truly think that Vick should be given a chance to prove himself and he is certainly aware that all eyes are watching.

I believe dog fighting was taught to him as he was growing up through his childhood just like skinheads can be taught to hate from a early age but even they too can break that mold and realize that what they did and thought was wrong.

There is no outrage for others who were in dogfighting rings and we can all believe that some of them have a lot of money too and go back to their fancy offices dressed in suits and ties. So to pick Vick and just ostracize him seems within itself like a personal vendetta against one man and no storming the doors of others who have been busted for dogfighting rings.

What it shows, imo, is more and more people devalue human life and rise the animals life up as if having more worth. While I love them with all my heart it still does not compare to the heartbreak every time I see another defenseless little child die in horrible ways.

I think Vick has done a lot of soul searching. He did a lot out of ignorance and what he had been taught to be acceptable, imo and now I think he realizes that what he did was as wrong can be and wants to show everyone that even people like him, can change.

I think he should be given that chance. If he blows it, which I don't believe he will, then it will be no one's fault but his own.

imo

[R~O~S]

(respectfully snipped)

I think Vick has done a lot of soul searching. He did a lot out of ignorance and what he had been taught to be acceptable, imo and now I think he realizes that what he did was as wrong can be and wants to show everyone that even people like him, can change.

I think he should be given that chance. If he blows it, which I don't believe he will, then it will be no one's fault but his own.

imo

Gentle, I know you for the animal advocate you say you are, but I think you're forgetting just a couple of things.

1) I don't think anyone wants to deny MV the right to go out and find himself a means of support. What we are saying is that playing for the NFL or any other professional sport, being placed in the position of someone children look to for emulation is a privilege, not a right. When you conduct yourself in a fashion that is so outside the realm of societal values, you sacrifice that privilege until you actually do something to redeem yourself.

2)Michael Vick was not a "good guy" long before the dog fighting charges came to light. He'd been warned again and again that his behavior reflected on his team and the sport & he needed to straighten up. I posted a list of his scrapes earlier in the thread.

3) Michael Vick wasn't just an attendee at these dog fights, he was an organizer and owner of the operation, a hands on owner, not a silent partner.

If he were truly remorseful, he could have done great things re providing information on other major players. How many other rings could have been shut down by now had he actually co-operated & been willing to testify?

I have no doubt the other players have relocated their operations by now, making whatever he knew stale information. He had a limited window for making a difference, he can never make it right. Instead he chose to divert, claim innocence, negotiate what he'd actually admit.

Those aren't the actions of a remorseful man who made a mistake or learned from them.

[SavannahStar]

I'll respond, GB.

First of all, the hue and cry over Michael Vick does not, I think, show that people are now devaluing human life and raising animals above that. You would have to personally know the people who are showing the most outcry against Vick and know that they don't get upset over human killing, child killing. You know one does not negate the other! How can you say that just BECAUSE there is such outrage against Vick, there is no like outrage against murderers of human beings?

Secondly, about "breaking that mold"....I just don't believe that is true. I posted many times, and above in this thread, that I liken animal abusers to pedophiles in that they never really lose the capability of doing harm. It can be controlled, but not cured. So there I guess we disagree. Vick has something deep within himself that was ABLE to torture and kill dogs. Does that ever go away? I personally don't believe so. Will he ever hurt a dog again? I don't know, but I sure wouldn't want him in my neighborhood around MY dogs. Same as I wouldn't want a convicted pedophile in my neighborhood.

"There is no outrage for others who were in dogfighting rings"??? Now how do you know this? This thread is specifically about Michael Vick. Start a thread on dogfighting in general and I'm confident you will see a lot of outrage against ALL who participate in any way at all in that despicable crime. Google it and you WILL find plenty of outrage.

I agree with you that Vick deserves a second chance, but a second chance at life outside of prison, NOT in the NFL making millions of dollars. Said it before and I'll say it again, our children's sports heroes should be moral persons, above reproach. Not convicted felons. THAT'S what so sad about "the system." Vick could have been banned for life; he should have been, IMO. Do you think a policeman, for example, who was convicted of a felony, could be reinstated so easily? I hope not! He would get out of prison and get a different job. That's what Vick should have done.

Make no mistake: yes, Vick is "sorry"....sorry he got caught. And that's about it! I wouldn't trust that monster with a goldfish! :cursing:

[SavannahStar]

And angry. I remember when it first came out about his drowning those helpless dogs and electrocuting them and my family talking about how he would never play again. My son and husband were the only ones who said he would.

Anyone want to read something that is a true eye-opener, read "The Criminals in the NFL."

Oh Daniel. I just KNEW he'd never play again either. My best friend said, "oh he'll be back in the NFL." NEVER thought I'd see that happen. :sad:

[SavannahStar]

I adore animals. But I don't place a higher value on animals than I do on humans. When I see the same outcry and demand for justice regarding human life, I will ramp up my dislike for Michael Vick. Everyone and every animal deserves to be treated with dignity but until it is reality, I will have to set my own priorities.

*snipped*

See, this is just what I don't understand. The mindset that because people are upset about animal abuse, it means that don't care about human life, is just NOT true at all.

You don't see outcry and demand for justice regarding human life? Take a look on some of the current crime forums here.

[R~O~S]

*snipped*

See, this is just what I don't understand. The mindset that because people are upset about animal abuse, it means that don't care about human life, is just NOT true at all.

You don't see outcry and demand for justice regarding human life? Take a look on some of the current crime forums here.

It is because I have a deep concern for all life that this upsets me so.

Those who abuse animals are shown to be likely to abuse children.

Serial killers start out abusing animals.

The link between abuse of animals and violent crime cannot be denied.

This is the person we want our children looking to as something to emulate? GMAFB

http://cats.about.com/cs/crueltyconnection/a/cruelty.htm

http://www.hsus.org/hsus_field/first_strike_the_connection_between_animal_cruelty _and_human_violence/animal_cruelty_and_family_violence_making_the_conn ection/

http://www.hsus.org/hsus_field/first_strike_the_connection_between_animal_cruelty _and_human_violence/children_and_animal_cruelty_what_parents_should_kn ow.html

Children emulate their sports heroes, what are we telling the children when a man can do this and in under two years he's back to making millions as if it didn't happen? We can't point to his remorse, he's shown none. We can't point to the good he's done since, he's done none.

Michael Vick has campaigned for Michael Vick. He had to be ordered to finance the care of the animals confiscated from his property, he didn't do it voluntarily. Not one thing has he done voluntarily to show so much as a stitch of remorse.

Even his interview done in conjunction with the Humane Society was done for the purpose of rehabilitating his image.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4385808

Vick's visit to a suburban Atlanta community center was largely off limits to the very neighborhood it was supposed to be helping. In an agreement between Vick's handlers and the Humane Society of the United States, only 55 people and one media crew were allowed inside. An Associated Press reporter, videographer and photographer were among the media banished from the property by police.

(skip)

The quarterback is apparently planning to do his first major interview since completing a 23-month prison sentence with the CBS news magazine "60 Minutes," which sent a three-person crew to film the event. The AP was barred from entering, and the windows were covered to prevent anyone from looking inside. Eventually, police were called, and all media were forced to stand on a sidewalk in front of the complex.

If this was about bringing the message to the streets he grew up, that abuse of animals is wrong, the event would have been open to more than 50 people. It would have been publicized, at least locally.

The people there, the ones who live in that neighborhood, where he supposedly was taught this was OK, would have not only known about the event, they would have been welcome to hear what he had to say. But it wasn't, it was an orchestrated event for the purpose of a "60 minutes" rebuild Michael Vick's image interview.

[GentleBreeze]

I do understand why the majority thinks the way they do but there is no assurances they they are right and Vick will forever be the same man he was. He, of all people can show children what happens when the wrong path is chosen in life and what the outcome can be. None of the others caught in the same participation has lost so much as far as I am aware. I think he will try to show the children that yes, he is sorry and urge them never to harm an animal as it is so wrong. I just think that out of every bad comes some good and I do hope that Vick will still promote that nothing but kindness needs to be shown to our defenseless animals.

Dog fighting has always been more prevelant in our society for many decades than has ever been spoken about in the media until recent years. Even as a young child from the south I knew of this unspeakable game going on somewhere unknown in my county and imo it is still going on. When I became older I listened more to the whispers and these people werent who I thought they would be. Many were a lot of influential people involved, both men and women who came to make money off these horrible abuses and watch them suffer.

I even had one of my precious dogs go missing and to this day I believe Red was taken to be put into a dog fighting ring and it tears my heart out everytime I think of him. He was such a big, strong, lovable and faithful dog but the day before he went missing, two pit bulls jumped out of the back of a pick up truck and came into our yard after him and he sent them both running, bloody and limping. The next day he was gone forever.:crying:

imo

[True2Blues]

I am going to join the minority with you. I despise what he has done. But he has paid his dues and will determine his own destiny.

The drunk NFL player that mowed down the pedestrian in Miami got what? 30 or 60 days off season. The former NBA player that killed someone in his house is still free (Jasyon Blair??) The steroids. The domestic violence that goes unpunished. How many baseball players go back home to PR or DR and participate in their culture's version of animal cruelty like cockfighting? Pac Man Jones. Ray Lewis. Plaxico Burrell.

I adore animals. But I don't place a higher value on animals than I do on humans. When I see the same outcry and demand for justice regarding human life, I will ramp up my dislike for Michael Vick. Everyone and every animal deserves to be treated with dignity but until it is reality, I will have to set my own priorities.


I find it interesting that some think since the NFL has let so many other criminals back into their ranks, that this one should be welcomed back with open arms as well.

I would think that the idea that the NHL should get their act together and stop letting these people represent them would be a better path to take.

[True2Blues]

*snipped*

See, this is just what I don't understand. The mindset that because people are upset about animal abuse, it means that don't care about human life, is just NOT true at all.

You don't see outcry and demand for justice regarding human life? Take a look on some of the current crime forums here.

It's a justification because the NFL also welcomed back someone who killed a man while driving drunk. Rather than chalk this up as another WRONG, and make it clear the NFL needs to clean up it's act, this is said to be a lesser crime.

Two wrongs make it all right, sort of thing.

[ChocHollyK]

snipped for relevance.....

What it shows, imo, is more and more people devalue human life and rise the animals life up as if having more worth. While I love them with all my heart it still does not compare to the heartbreak every time I see another defenseless little child die in horrible ways.

I think Vick has done a lot of soul searching. He did a lot out of ignorance and what he had been taught to be acceptable, imo and now I think he realizes that what he did was as wrong can be and wants to show everyone that even people like him, can change.


imo

I do not, and do not know anyone who DOES, state or believe that animals lives are more valuable than childrens'. I think your statement ignores the issue.
You are comparing apples with oranges when you speak about horrific deaths of children, and it truly has no part in this discussion about Michael Vick.

But, I am not sure I can believe what I read, your implication of Vick's 'ignorance' and 'what he had been taught to be acceptable.'
I did not ever ever have to be TAUGHT it was cruel and unacceptable to deliberately hurt dogs or any other animals.

I don't care if Michael Vick can change, but my opinion is that he probably can't and won't. Especially now, when he is able to waltz right back in where he left off.
I would be willing to be big bucks that if this were any Joe off the street, he wouldn't be able to return to even a Janitor's job after this horrific debacle that demonstrates pure disregard and total lack of empathy for beings that have no voice, no choices, no escape from brutality.

THIS is what the issue is... it is NOT about paying a debt to society and then being able to merely move on... Certainly he can move on, I hope that he does and i hope that he never owns another dog.

Every child that lives in or near a dysfunctional environment where people's lives or safety are disregarded already believe that there is no escape and no justice for their situation.... what will they believe when they see MV back out on the field, as if no big deal had occurred... how much MORE are those children at risk NOW for crime and violence?

I mean, WTH, MV outright KILLED these animals, LOTS of them, when they failed to continue to perform. And, in fact, when he said he was "sorry", he got the green light to now move on to return to fame and fortune.

Have fun, kids.... just don't get caught... but even if you do, you're good enough at what you do that you might STILL be able to play and earn the big bucks .....

[daniel green]

Hello, SS. I admire your passion. I have a question tho. Does it bother you that no one else was punished? All the parties that provided information were basically exempt from prosecution? snipped!

Hey, Clara!

Didn't the two other men who ran the dogfighting/killing ring go to prison, too? :confused:

[daniel green]

I find it interesting that some think since the NFL has let so many other criminals back into their ranks, that this one should be welcomed back with open arms as well.

I would think that the idea that the NHL should get their act together and stop letting these people represent them would be a better path to take.

I am gonna agree with this.

Just because they let in rapists and killers and spouse abusers and addicts and drug dealers (like I said, read The Criminals in the NFL) doesn't mean that they should let this particular one in.

What he did shocked ppl because of the absolute helplessness of those poor animals he killed and tortured with his own hands.

The kids I work with who think it's cool to put big chains on their pits and still wear Vick gear are tickled pink that Vick made it back. I hate to see that validation of such horrific behavior.

And it's not like this Vick was a choir boy before the horrific dog ring was discovered. He had been in several problems before, as has his brother (who, I believe is still in prison).

Vick played in the ACC so we knew him way back when and I was one of his biggest fans for years. Loved the way he played, loved the way he ran, his strength, all of it.

But you hurt a child, someone disabled or a frail adult, or a helpless animal, you just lost your ticket to humanity as far as I am concerned.

The NFL should have sent a message that this will not be tolerated.

It's not like he doesn't deserve a second chance or he couldn't have gotten a job somwhere else. But in a pro football team for slews of kids to think he's a hero? No way.

[daniel green]

*snipped*

See, this is just what I don't understand. The mindset that because people are upset about animal abuse, it means that don't care about human life, is just NOT true at all.

You don't see outcry and demand for justice regarding human life? Take a look on some of the current crime forums here.

Now that is something I don't get at all. Who on earth is not upset about the loss of human life?

And if Vick wanted a second chance he might should have begun an animal rescue and hired the best folks and put in some years helping animals in need.

[R~O~S]

Hey, Clara!

Didn't the two other men who ran the dogfighting/killing ring go to prison, too? :confused:

Indeed his three accomplices served time.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/27/michael.vick/index.html

Peace, 35, of Virginia Beach, Virginia; Phillips, 28, of Atlanta, Georgia; and Taylor, 34, of Hampton, Virginia, have accepted agreements to plead guilty in exchange for reduced sentences.

Of course the big difference is, they actually gave information and were willing to testify in exchange for their reduced jail time.

http://www.aldf.org/article.php?id=928

December 10, 2007 The Federal Case - Sentencing
At the sentencing hearing, due to Vick’s deliberate false statements to federal investigators about his role in killing dogs, the prosecutor recommended Vick be sentenced at the upper end of the 12-18 month guideline range. Vick had also lied to investigators about testing positive for marijuana in September, a violation of the terms of his release on bail.

(skip)

Peace, Phillips and Taylor all pled guilty to the same charge earlier in the year. Peace was sentenced to 18 months prison and Phillips to 21 months prison.

A few days later, Tony Taylor was sentenced. Since Taylor had been the first co-conspirator to plead guilty and had provided investigators with details of the dogfighting operation, the prosecutor had recommended that Taylor only serve probation. However, the judge said it wouldn't be fair to give Taylor probation after sentencing his co-defendants to 18 months or more in prison. He told Taylor, "You were as much an abuser of animals as any other defendant in this case." The judge sentenced Taylor to 2 months in prison.

I just loved this judge, he sentenced Vick to 5 months more than the Prosecution suggested because he lied right up to the very end. They had him on a polygraph that nailed him for killing dogs himself, which he denied even after being caught, after having a deal, if he told the truth.

[ChocHollyK]

I am gonna agree with this.

Just because they let in rapists and killers and spouse abusers and addicts and drug dealers (like I said, read The Criminals in the NFL) doesn't mean that they should let this particular one in.

What he did shocked ppl because of the absolute helplessness of those poor animals he killed and tortured with his own hands.

The kids I work with who think it's cool to put big chains on their pits and still wear Vick gear are tickled pink that Vick made it back. I hate to see that validation of such horrific behavior.

And it's not like this Vick was a choir boy before the horrific dog ring was discovered. He had been in several problems before, as has his brother (who, I believe is still in prison).

Vick played in the ACC so we knew him way back when and I was one of his biggest fans for years. Loved the way he played, loved the way he ran, his strength, all of it.

But you hurt a child, someone disabled or a frail adult, or a helpless animal, you just lost your ticket to humanity as far as I am concerned.

The NFL should have sent a message that this will not be tolerated.

It's not like he doesn't deserve a second chance or he couldn't have gotten a job somwhere else. But in a pro football team for slews of kids to think he's a hero? No way.

very well said....

[ChocHollyK]

I don't think Vick, as part of his probation, is allowed to be near animals, nor able to own one.

So I don't understand how he is going to be able to work on the behalf of animals.

Speeches aren't going to get it.
Public appearances won't be able to resolve or help anything or any cause.

As far as I'm concerned, the NFL and the coaches and administrators, etc, made horrible mistakes here this week.

And I'll bet you ten to one, we'll see a little bit of fringe 'talk' and an appearance or two about animal abuse, and then he'll be 'done'......

I'm going to be sick...

[True2Blues]

Indeed his three accomplices served time.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/27/michael.vick/index.html



Of course the big difference is, they actually gave information and were willing to testify in exchange for their reduced jail time.

http://www.aldf.org/article.php?id=928



I just loved this judge, he sentenced Vick to 5 months more than the Prosecution suggested because he lied right up to the very end. They had him on a polygraph that nailed him for killing dogs himself, which he denied even after being caught, after having a deal, if he told the truth.

Which pretty much tells you what his word that he's a changed man is worth. Nothing.

[True2Blues]

I don't think Vick, as part of his probation, is allowed to be near animals, nor able to own one.

So I don't understand how he is going to be able to work on the behalf of animals.

Speeches aren't going to get it.
Public appearances won't be able to resolve or help anything or any cause.

As far as I'm concerned, the NFL and the coaches and administrators, etc, made horrible mistakes here this week.

And I'll bet you ten to one, we'll see a little bit of fringe 'talk' and an appearance or two about animal abuse, and then he'll be 'done'......

I'm going to be sick...

Too bad they couldn't ban him from ever being near an animal again in his lifetime.

Still, as a professional football player he'll be exposed to a lot of children's charities, sick children, children in need.

It will be great exposure for him and he'll be in contact with children.

Feeling better or a little sicker? I know which one I feel.

[SavannahStar]

I do not, and do not know anyone who DOES, state or believe that animals lives are more valuable than childrens'. I think your statement ignores the issue.
You are comparing apples with oranges when you speak about horrific deaths of children, and it truly has no part in this discussion about Michael Vick.

But, I am not sure I can believe what I read, your implication of Vick's 'ignorance' and 'what he had been taught to be acceptable.'
I did not ever ever have to be TAUGHT it was cruel and unacceptable to deliberately hurt dogs or any other animals.

I don't care if Michael Vick can change, but my opinion is that he probably can't and won't. Especially now, when he is able to waltz right back in where he left off.
I would be willing to be big bucks that if this were any Joe off the street, he wouldn't be able to return to even a Janitor's job after this horrific debacle that demonstrates pure disregard and total lack of empathy for beings that have no voice, no choices, no escape from brutality.

THIS is what the issue is... it is NOT about paying a debt to society and then being able to merely move on... Certainly he can move on, I hope that he does and i hope that he never owns another dog.

Every child that lives in or near a dysfunctional environment where people's lives or safety are disregarded already believe that there is no escape and no justice for their situation.... what will they believe when they see MV back out on the field, as if no big deal had occurred... how much MORE are those children at risk NOW for crime and violence?

I mean, WTH, MV outright KILLED these animals, LOTS of them, when they failed to continue to perform. And, in fact, when he said he was "sorry", he got the green light to now move on to return to fame and fortune.

Have fun, kids.... just don't get caught... but even if you do, you're good enough at what you do that you might STILL be able to play and earn the big bucks .....


I love this post. Can't snip any of it. It's perfect. Thank you!

[SavannahStar]

I am gonna agree with this.

Just because they let in rapists and killers and spouse abusers and addicts and drug dealers (like I said, read The Criminals in the NFL) doesn't mean that they should let this particular one in.

What he did shocked ppl because of the absolute helplessness of those poor animals he killed and tortured with his own hands.

The kids I work with who think it's cool to put big chains on their pits and still wear Vick gear are tickled pink that Vick made it back. I hate to see that validation of such horrific behavior.

And it's not like this Vick was a choir boy before the horrific dog ring was discovered. He had been in several problems before, as has his brother (who, I believe is still in prison).

Vick played in the ACC so we knew him way back when and I was one of his biggest fans for years. Loved the way he played, loved the way he ran, his strength, all of it.

But you hurt a child, someone disabled or a frail adult, or a helpless animal, you just lost your ticket to humanity as far as I am concerned.

The NFL should have sent a message that this will not be tolerated.

It's not like he doesn't deserve a second chance or he couldn't have gotten a job somwhere else. But in a pro football team for slews of kids to think he's a hero? No way.

Again here.....very well said, Daniel. Thank you thank you thank you.

Some of you guys are so much better than me with the written word, at least on this subject. I go wild, I admit it. It just hits too close to home. When you actually own a pitbull, and see the love in their eyes and know what wonderful dogs they are, as precious, wonderful PETS, and then you hear about people who specifically pick out the breed for torture and killing......whoa, just whoa. :sad:

But even that's not the real issue. You said it best, Daniel:

But you hurt a child, someone disabled or a frail adult, or a helpless animal, you just lost your ticket to humanity as far as I am concerned.

And keep remembering what he SPECIFICALLY PERSONALLY did to those dogs. So many people, I think, don't even know the specifics. You mentioned some above, Daniel. What he did....it wasn't "just" being involved in a dogfighting ring. It was far, far worse. I want to gag.

[R~O~S]

Which pretty much tells you what his word that he's a changed man is worth. Nothing.

Oh he's changed alright. He knows he has to be a bit better at hiding his off field activities.

[daniel green]

snipped

I just loved this judge, he sentenced Vick to 5 months more than the Prosecution suggested because he lied right up to the very end. They had him on a polygraph that nailed him for killing dogs himself, which he denied even after being caught, after having a deal, if he told the truth.

Lots of remorse right there. :rolleyes:

Thx so much for the links about the other 2 guys serving time as well. I thought they had.

[R~O~S]

Lots of remorse right there. :rolleyes:

Thx so much for the links about the other 2 guys serving time as well. I thought they had.

Three Daniel, Taylor had been out of the operation for a long time, but he was charged because the investigation had been ongoing back to when he was a contributing player.

He was the first to plead and co-operate. The Pros suggested probation because he was out by the time he was arrested, the judge gave him two months in prison followed by probation.

[daniel green]

snipped

And keep remembering what he SPECIFICALLY PERSONALLY did to those dogs. So many people, I think, don't even know the specifics. You mentioned some above, Daniel. What he did....it wasn't "just" being involved in a dogfighting ring. It was far, far worse. I want to gag.

Oh, absolutely. It shows some real lack of basic humanity to be actually able to torture a helpless being, whether it's a child or an animal or ppl who hit/abuse elderly folks. Something is just gone from their makeup to be able to do that.

I think we are all wired NOT to do that. So when a person can, it is frightening. Heck, even a child finding a baby bird outside has as a first instinct to take it in and feed it and nurture it.

In court I have always been able to handle tough cases, but I have not taken on anything involving a firestarter or abusive to animals case because of the depth of depravity goes so deep, it's a lost cause.

The biggest thing to me was watching one of the poor dogs taken from Vick's house of horrors and the vet showing how ALL of her teeth had been removed from her mouth, and that it looked like a pro did it--and that it had been done to keep her from attacking the male dogs they put in the rape stand to mount her. There was something about that so absolutely inhuman, it just make my heart ache.

The NFL is about making money, of course, and it they want to let this man back, then have at it. But, as a football fan--heck, fanatic--it sickens me. And whatever I can do to fight against it, I will.

[daniel green]

Thank you, ROS. I could only remember two.

[daniel green]

Again here.....very well said, Daniel. Thank you thank you thank you.

Some of you guys are so much better than me with the written word, at least on this subject. I go wild, I admit it. It just hits too close to home. When you actually own a pitbull, and see the love in their eyes and know what wonderful dogs they are, as precious, wonderful PETS, and then you hear about people who specifically pick out the breed for torture and killing......whoa, just whoa. :sad:

snipped

You know, I think if you own or love Pit bulls it hits you harder. They are so smart, and loving and loyal. One of the Panthers has two absolutely gorgeous blue Pit Bulls and he goes to the same vet we do and they are absolute breathtaking. And so friendly. Here I came out of the exam room with my two lil fluff balls and held the leashes when I first saw them, but all four just sniffed and played like old friends. I asked if I could pet them, and got covered in kisses by them. They were absolutely gorgeous. Didn't find out till I was paying my bill and he was in the exam room that he played with the Panthers. I was just going on and on about the gorgeous animals.

[True2Blues]

Oh he's changed alright. He knows he has to be a bit better at hiding his off field activities.

I can accept that to be the one thing he learned. The one and only thing that got through to him.

[Hanalei]

IMO if you were really an animal lover you wouldn't have said what you did:thumbdown: I will never forgive what Vick did and when he cried in prison he cried for himself not for those dogs. Not for one minute do I believe he feels bad for what he did if he had a human heart he would have never have hurt animals I don't understand people that do they are sick in the head. I hope nothing but bad karma for Vick.


I love animals as much as the next person and what he did is disgusting but come on, it's been what, two or three years? I'm sorry but there are bigger fish to fry IMO.

[Hanalei]

ITA this is something that doesn't need to be forgiven or forgotten what he did is beyond my understanding or forgiveness every time I see his ugly mug on my screen during football season curse words will be flying:cursing:

No. I'm sorry. This is a HUGE issue to many people. If you don't agree, fine. But don't tell me what fish need to be fried, by ME. I don't care if this crime happened two years, three years, ten years or twenty years ago.

[Hanalei]

Don't worry if he plays against my Chargers #56 will take care of him and I'm looking forward to it:thumbsup:


I'm really praying he fails MISERABLY at this stint in the NFL. He could and should just get a job elsewhere and fade away into the sunset. Maybe as a street cleaner in some obscure city. :tonguewag:

[Hanalei]

Now that I would mind watching and I don't feel bad saying it.


I've changed my mind.

I think he should be allowed to play, as long as he has to play by the same rules that his dogs played by.

IIRC they were beaten, drowned, hanged or electrocuted if they didn't perform.

I can live with those contract rules.

[Hanalei]

Crimes against animals aren't strict enough and they need to change. Unlike you if someone hurts or kills an animal or person in a disgusting way that person should be punished big time. I personally value my animals then most people some people are just a waste of space like Vick he doesn't do anything to make this world better. My animals have never let me down or screwed me over like people do.


I am going to join the minority with you. I despise what he has done. But he has paid his dues and will determine his own destiny.

The drunk NFL player that mowed down the pedestrian in Miami got what? 30 or 60 days off season. The former NBA player that killed someone in his house is still free (Jasyon Blair??) The steroids. The domestic violence that goes unpunished. How many baseball players go back home to PR or DR and participate in their culture's version of animal cruelty like cockfighting? Pac Man Jones. Ray Lewis. Plaxico Burrell.

I adore animals. But I don't place a higher value on animals than I do on humans. When I see the same outcry and demand for justice regarding human life, I will ramp up my dislike for Michael Vick. Everyone and every animal deserves to be treated with dignity but until it is reality, I will have to set my own priorities.

[Firehead11]

Many Eagke fans are NOT agreeing with Vick being signed with them. They might lose a fan base in their home state.

[True2Blues]

Many Eagke fans are NOT agreeing with Vick being signed with them. They might lose a fan base in their home state.

Good. A hit in the money bag is the only voice the fan has in this. If they show their disgust, maybe The team management will wake up.

[Valkyrie08]

I'm going to join the minority here as well. I don't hate Michael Vick. I just hate what he did. As an animal lover, I despise dogfighting. He's made some bad choices that have severely damaged his career and image. Innocent dogs have lost their lives.

I pray that he has learned from this experience and will do something good toward animal welfare (e.g. donate money to shelters and raising awareness on dog fighting). Only time will tell, though.

[History Buff]

I've said on this thread and I'll say it again. I LOVE animals and again I find what he did repulsive but quite frankly I don't appreciate being called a liar. Valkyrie08, I like the way you said what you did, it's certainly better than the way I said it. Just because I'm not spewing the hate toward him doesn't make me a bad person or someone who hates animals.

[Noahs ARK]

I've said on this thread and I'll say it again. I LOVE animals and again I find what he did repulsive but quite frankly I don't appreciate being called a liar.

Maybe the post was deleted by CW, by I haven't seen anyone calling you a liar. :confused:

[ChocHollyK]

You know, I keep thinking how history and psychology tells us that serial killers most often were involved in animal abuse, including animal torture, prior to their first killing.
NOW DO NOT, PLEEEEEASE DO NOT CONSTRUE THAT TO BELIEVE I AM SAYING VICK IS HEADED FOR SERIAL MURDER!!!!!! I DID NOT AND AM NOT SAYING THAT....
BUT...
we do know, psychology DOES know, that individuals who have a disregard for life, any life, animal or human, walks a very very fine line...

Personally, I can never and will never trust anyone who abuses an animal in any fashion. They scare the hell out of me.... so....
to use them for sport, and such a bloody, deadly sport at that... and then to mercilessly and nonchalantly be able to drown them, kill them in any fashion, is just unthinkable...

So .... NO.... to those of you who say, "He did his time, leave him alone...
.... NO!!! He was dangerous then and he's dangerous now.
That is NOT opinion, that is conventional wisdom among the experts....

[Hanalei]

I HARDLY CALL KILLING INNOCENT ANIMALS AND PULLING ALL THE TEETH OUT OF A FEMALE DOG SO SHE CAN'T DEFEND HERSELF IS MAKING A FEW MISTAKES!!! You make it sound like he shoplifted bubble gum from 7/11 I really take offensive of your comment on like we should forgive him I for one wish the same life for Vick as he gave his dogs.:cursing: I am also ashamed of our court system they aren't hard enough on animal killers.


Michael Vick deserves a second chance at redemption, he’s made a few mistakes along the way, but he’s paid for those mistakes by serving time in the federal prison system.

It’s time to let bygones be bygones and let’s see what he’s capable of doing between the lines :thumbup:

[lilismom]

Now that is something I don't get at all. Who on earth is not upset about the loss of human life?

And if Vick wanted a second chance he might should have begun an animal rescue and hired the best folks and put in some years helping animals in need.

And then we let him back in the NFL? Why can't he prove himself while he salvages what is left of his career and reputation? Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Maybe he's truly sorry. Maybe he's not. I guess we wait and see.

I don't consider myself an "animal lover" but you don't have to be to be sick with what he did and calls a mistake. Those are some HUGE mistakes fella.

I am conflicted. I live here and the Eagles have been my team for as long as I can remember. My first reaction was "oh no, not here". If not here, then where? Is it ok in someone else's backyard? So you try to get used to it. Its a done deal. He's here now. From a football standpoint, it isn't a bad thing for the Eagles since I believe Donovan is nearing the end of the road. The NFL didn't see fit to ban him and there are only a few markets where this would work. So, what do we do as fans? Do we hate the player but love the play ala T.O.? My prediction? They'll boo and bark at him when he takes the field until the first touchdown. Then you'll see a stadium full of "cat people".

IMO,
Lilismom

[True2Blues]

And then we let him back in the NFL? Why can't he prove himself while he salvages what is left of his career and reputation? Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Maybe he's truly sorry. Maybe he's not. I guess we wait and see.

I don't consider myself an "animal lover" but you don't have to be to be sick with what he did and calls a mistake. Those are some HUGE mistakes fella.

I am conflicted. I live here and the Eagles have been my team for as long as I can remember. My first reaction was "oh no, not here". If not here, then where? Is it ok in someone else's backyard? So you try to get used to it. Its a done deal. He's here now. From a football standpoint, it isn't a bad thing for the Eagles since I believe Donovan is nearing the end of the road. The NFL didn't see fit to ban him and there are only a few markets where this would work. So, what do we do as fans? Do we hate the player but love the play ala T.O.? My prediction? They'll boo and bark at him when he takes the field until the first touchdown. Then you'll see a stadium full of "cat people".

IMO,
Lilismom

That's a really sad and frightening thought. How pathetic to be able to excuse cruel and sickening behavior because someone can play football. It certainly says little for a value system if it's true. By the way, you'll find that cat people don't like animal torturers and killers either.

[Noahs ARK]

http://www.kxly.com/global/story.asp?s=10966693

SANDPOINT, Idaho -- A bar in Sandpoint will pull a few football games from it's televisions and a few beers from their menu this fall. It's all over the controversy surrounding one NFL player.
You might not find Miller and Coors products on tap at Slate's Prime Time Grill in Sandpoint. Owner Steve Coffman says he's boycotting the Philadelphia Eagles and their corporate sponsors. He and several bar owners across the country have one message: Get rid of Michael Vick.

Coffman owns three dogs and is a self-proclaimed animal lover. When quarterback Michael Vick was being investigated in connection with a dog fighting ring, he wasn't happy with the athlete's actions.

Now the Sandpoint bar owner says he's disappointed that Vick was recently signed by the Philadelphia Eagles after serving two years in prison.

It's why Coffman joined the national "Sack Vick" movement.

Coffman says athletes should be held accountable and NFL teams should have better judgement, that's why he's decided to boycott all Eagles games at his bar & grill.

He's even considering pulling beers off his menu connected to the team's corporate sponsors like Coors and Miller Lite.

"We just seem to say 'okay' and we continue to spend $40 to $50 and go to a game and buy the products. I think it's time we stopped and said, 'Hey, you know its enough.', " said Coffman.

Coffman says the boycott will last as long as Vick stays on the team.

[ChocHollyK]

http://www.kxly.com/global/story.asp?s=10966693

SANDPOINT, Idaho -- A bar in Sandpoint will pull a few football games from it's televisions and a few beers from their menu this fall. It's all over the controversy surrounding one NFL player.
You might not find Miller and Coors products on tap at Slate's Prime Time Grill in Sandpoint. Owner Steve Coffman says he's boycotting the Philadelphia Eagles and their corporate sponsors. He and several bar owners across the country have one message: Get rid of Michael Vick.

Coffman owns three dogs and is a self-proclaimed animal lover. When quarterback Michael Vick was being investigated in connection with a dog fighting ring, he wasn't happy with the athlete's actions.

Now the Sandpoint bar owner says he's disappointed that Vick was recently signed by the Philadelphia Eagles after serving two years in prison.

It's why Coffman joined the national "Sack Vick" movement.

Coffman says athletes should be held accountable and NFL teams should have better judgement, that's why he's decided to boycott all Eagles games at his bar & grill.

He's even considering pulling beers off his menu connected to the team's corporate sponsors like Coors and Miller Lite.

"We just seem to say 'okay' and we continue to spend $40 to $50 and go to a game and buy the products. I think it's time we stopped and said, 'Hey, you know its enough.', " said Coffman.

Coffman says the boycott will last as long as Vick stays on the team.

THANK YOU MR. COFFMAN, wish I could phone him and genuinely thank him...
and....
I wish TONS more were doing the same....

[R~O~S]

THANK YOU MR. COFFMAN, wish I could phone him and genuinely thank him...
and....
I wish TONS more were doing the same....

I don't think I want to tie up the mans phone or clog up his e-mail, but I'm definitely sending him a thank you card via US Postal.

http://www.slatesprimetime.com/


Slate's Prime Time Grill & Sports Bar
477272 Highway 95
Ponderay, Idaho 83852


I was hoping they had merchandise available on line, but I don't think they do, at least I haven't found it yet.

ETA: I wonder if they'd take an order over the phone, let me pay by debit card and send it to the local firehouse or animal shelter?

[ForestFairy]

I am sickened by this! I love dogs(animals!), and what he did was EVIL!!!!:cursing:

[Noahs ARK]

ETA: I wonder if they'd take an order over the phone, let me pay by debit card and send it to the local firehouse or animal shelter?

I was thinking the same thing!! I'm trying to figure out how to contribute to his business as a way of saying "thank you!!"

[ABC]

I was thinking the same thing!! I'm trying to figure out how to contribute to his business as a way of saying "thank you!!"

Cash is always nice.

[ABC]

I don't think I want to tie up the mans phone or clog up his e-mail, but I'm definitely sending him a thank you card via US Postal.

http://www.slatesprimetime.com/


Slate's Prime Time Grill & Sports Bar
477272 Highway 95
Ponderay, Idaho 83852


I was hoping they had merchandise available on line, but I don't think they do, at least I haven't found it yet.

ETA: I wonder if they'd take an order over the phone, let me pay by debit card and send it to the local firehouse or animal shelter?

Lovely idea.

[R~O~S]

You people are too cynical; last week on 60 minutes Michael Vick seemed truly remorseful and apologetic :thumbup:



A doctor who abuses a patient is truly apologetic when his license is revoked. Does that mean we should give him his license back?

How about the cop who fabricates evidence? Should we give him back his job?

The postal carrier who pilfers from the mail? Should we let him back on the workroom floor?

The train operator who can't seem to keep his cell phone in his pocket while driving?

The priest who abuses children?

Michael Vick had a checkered past long before the dog fighting charges came to light. He'd been warned time and again by the Falcons that his behavior reflected not only on himself but the team.

Yet, he did this, he did this & when caught wasn't man enough to stand up and take responsibility. He lied, he had a plea deal dependent on telling the truth & continued to lie resulting in additional prison time.

Michael Vick is remorseful alright, he has great remorse that he got caught.

If there were remorse, he would have given information that would have resulted in additional arrests and the shut down of the rings his kennel competed against.

None of that happened, instead he lied right up to the end & he hasn't done a dang thing since his release to mitigate any of that. What he has done is a self serving interview that served only Michael Vick.

Come tell me I need to be less cynical when he actually does something that makes him deserving of forgiveness.

[R~O~S]

I was thinking the same thing!! I'm trying to figure out how to contribute to his business as a way of saying "thank you!!"


Noah, I don't think they deliver, I'm going to call them today to make sure.

If not, I'm sending a card with one of those visa gift cards you can get at the store. I'm going to ask him to use it as he sees fit, but suggest treating a deserving local of his choosing.

[daniel green]

We posted an item earlier today regarding an observation from Brian Costello of the New York Post that Eagles quarterback Mike Vick was drinking vodka despite a league-imposed requirement that he abide by the terms of his probation, including "prohibitions regarding drug and alcohol use." Despite indications that Vick possibly is prohibited only from "excessive" use of alcohol, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello has declined to elaborate on the matter. "Our press release referred to conditions imposed by the court," Aiello told us via e-mail. "Anything to do with the league's program is confidential. I am not aware of any violations to the terms of his reinstatement." We then asked Aiello specifically whether Vick is or isn't prohibited from drinking alcohol, Aiello said, "We are not going to be any more specific on the conditions than what was in the press release. As I said, I am not aware of any violations of the conditions." Even if Vick is permitted to drink alcohol as long as he doesn't consume "excessive" amounts, wouldn't the smart move be to drink no alcohol at all? In Vick's case, it's not enough to simply stay on the right side of the line. The challenge is to know where the line is, and to stay as far away from it as he possibly can.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/22/league-wont-comment-on-whether-vick-is-permitted-to-drink-alcohol/

[Noahs ARK]

Noah, I don't think they deliver, I'm going to call them today to make sure.

If not, I'm sending a card with one of those visa gift cards you can get at the store. I'm going to ask him to use it as he sees fit, but suggest treating a deserving local of his choosing.

If he doesn't deliver, I'll be sending him a thank you card and a donation to their local animal shelter in his name.

[True2Blues]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/22/league-wont-comment-on-whether-vick-is-permitted-to-drink-alcohol/

Gee, what a surprise, Vick breaking the rules before he's even off probation. He couldn't even keep it in private. So much for committed to change. (like I believed it in the first place.)

[Spyder88]

You people are too cynical; last week on 60 minutes Michael Vick seemed truly remorseful and apologetic :thumbup:




He was probably half sloshed on vodka, the worthless thug. :rolleyes:

He hasn't changed one iota. If he could he'd be back to gambling and killing dogs in a nano second. It's how his kind feel like big, macho he-men. He's a perverted and warped animal abuser and he doesn't feel any compassion for anyone other than himself. He's an idiot.

[lilismom]

That's a really sad and frightening thought. How pathetic to be able to excuse cruel and sickening behavior because someone can play football. It certainly says little for a value system if it's true. By the way, you'll find that cat people don't like animal torturers and killers either.


Of course they don't. I'm sure you knew what my point was.

It is sad. But I bet I'm right. We'll see Thursday night....

IMO,
Lilismom

[Noahs ARK]

He was probably half sloshed on vodka, the worthless thug. :rolleyes:

He hasn't changed one iota. If he could he'd be back to gambling and killing dogs in a nano second. It's how his kind feel like big, macho he-men. He's a perverted and warped animal abuser and he doesn't feel any compassion for anyone other than himself. He's an idiot.

ITA - he's not gonna change. He's gonna walk right up to the line and stand there, just daring somebody to challenge him.

I don't believe somebody THAT cruel could suddenly "see the light" and reform.

I'm wondering how long before he's back in prison.

[IcyLogic]

ITA - he's not gonna change. He's gonna walk right up to the line and stand there, just daring somebody to challenge him.

I don't believe somebody THAT cruel could suddenly "see the light" and reform.

I'm wondering how long before he's back in prison.

The man's done his time. Let him have a chance to prove he's changed before you say he hasn't.

[Noahs ARK]

The man's done his time. Let him have a chance to prove he's changed before you say he hasn't.

Naw - he doesn't get a second chance with me. I have a house full of animals that were abused, so my tolerance level for this kind of behavior is ZERO.

[IcyLogic]

Naw - he doesn't get a second chance with me. I have a house full of animals that were abused, so my tolerance level for this kind of behavior is ZERO.


Its not being tolerant to punish someone for a crime then allow them a chance to go on with life. Thats justice.

[Hanalei]

not for one second do I believe he regrets what he did only an idiot would not know that killing dogs and making them fight is not ok. Karma will follow Vick forever!

ITA - he's not gonna change. He's gonna walk right up to the line and stand there, just daring somebody to challenge him.

I don't believe somebody THAT cruel could suddenly "see the light" and reform.

I'm wondering how long before he's back in prison.

[Hanalei]

Not with me either if he did that to any of my animals he would be breathing.


Naw - he doesn't get a second chance with me. I have a house full of animals that were abused, so my tolerance level for this kind of behavior is ZERO.

[Hanalei]

:rolleyes: Abuser is always an abuser they don't change I've not met one yet yeah he's being good now but it's just a PR move IMO

Its not being tolerant to punish someone for a crime then allow them a chance to go on with life. Thats justice.

[IcyLogic]

:rolleyes: Abuser is always an abuser they don't change I've not met one yet yeah he's being good now but it's just a PR move IMO

An abuser who's been punished for his crime, and has stopped abusing, is a person. Worthy of the chance to move on.
If he abuses again, jail him again, if not, give him a chance to make good.

[Noahs ARK]

Its not being tolerant to punish someone for a crime then allow them a chance to go on with life. Thats justice.

Yes, I get it - he served his time and should be allowed to prove himself.

In the meantime, I'll continue using my voice for the animals that can't speak for themselves and for THEIR justice.

[True2Blues]

ITA - he's not gonna change. He's gonna walk right up to the line and stand there, just daring somebody to challenge him.

I don't believe somebody THAT cruel could suddenly "see the light" and reform.

I'm wondering how long before he's back in prison.

Look at his eyes. His cold, glittering, cruel, empty eyes. He'd say the wizard gave him a heart if he thought people would buy it and excuse his behavior. He would, and is saying anything he thinks people want to hear.

I'd like to think someone is there waiting to slap him the minute he crosses the line, but he's already pushing it and the NHL has shown they're going to ignore anything he does.

Unless he guns someone down in the street, in front of witnesses, they're going to cover for him, they did enough of it before they caught him at dog fighting.

I hope prison sapped whatever athletic ability he had and he's absolute carp at the game now. It's the only way to stop him with the NHL covering his back.

[True2Blues]

Its not being tolerant to punish someone for a crime then allow them a chance to go on with life. Thats justice.

We don't have to be tolerant of sick, demented, evil cruelty to animals. We also don't have to like the fact that he's being rewarded for that behavior by the NFL.

[Ahlou]

Most hate filled thread I've seen lately. Wonder how many of those without-sin/error people are posting do so just because they can sprew hate without worry.

Society gave him a sentence he paid for the crime. Would I rather he not have a job, heck no let him do something positive. What about the breeders who supplied him the dogs? What about those caught in the last month with big money operations. Yes I read this is about Vick I say that's a con statement to vindicate the hate filled post.

[IcyLogic]

We don't have to be tolerant of sick, demented, evil cruelty to animals. We also don't have to like the fact that he's being rewarded for that behavior by the NFL.

My bad, I mistakenly thought the NFL were rewarding him for whatever talent he has for football. And as a previous poster suggested, I don't expect there's a single one of us here who hasn't done something we later regretted and tried to put behind us. His crimes were nasty. he went to jail for them and is trying to go on with life. Give him a chance.

[True2Blues]

My bad, I mistakenly thought the NFL were rewarding him for whatever talent he has for football. And as a previous poster suggested, I don't expect there's a single one of us here who hasn't done something we later regretted and tried to put behind us. His crimes were nasty. he went to jail for them and is trying to go on with life. Give him a chance.

I have never, ever, even contemplated torturing and killing animals, human or other wise. There's one he!! of a difference between that and regretting a non felony choice that didn't break laws and harm or kill living creatures.

I understand that you think it's excusable behavior and that, as you suggested, he needs another chance and if he does it again, well that's not nice. Once was inexcusable as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, he went to jail, that's his sentence in the penal system. Now he's trying to get on with his life and yes, he wants that millionaire lifestyle back. That doesn't mean he deserves it. It doesn't mean he's even capable of it anymore, and I sincerely hope he isn't.

He has proven that he is one who will prey on the weak and helpless. He has also proven that he will lie to make himself look better, as he did to the FBI when he had agreed to cooperate with them. That is what he's proven to me and others.

He'd say anything to try and make himself look good and get that $$$ and fame. Nothing has changed. He stopped torturing and killing animals because he was caught and forced to stop. He hasn't been doing it because he just got out of jail, where there was no opportunity to do it.

[R~O~S]

See there’s that cynicism again :sad:

With the help of former Indianapolis head coach and mentor Tony Dungy, Michael Vick experienced an epiphany while behind bars in federal prison, and has dedicated himself to both divine worship and the protection of animals (most especially, man’s best friend)

& he was preaching his new found religion in a bar while in violation of his parole? Gotcha. :rolleyes:

[IcyLogic]

I posted this on another thread, but it applies equally well here. This is sci fi author Charles Stross opining about mercy in the US.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/08/merciless.html

Looking at this thread, I find it difficult to disagree with him in the least.

[SavannahStar]

See there’s that cynicism again :sad:

With the help of former Indianapolis head coach and mentor Tony Dungy, Michael Vick experienced an epiphany while behind bars in federal prison, and has dedicated himself to both divine worship and the protection of animals (most especially, man’s best friend)

I used to simply ADORE Tony Dungy! He was "our" coach for the Bucs, and I loved him just as much when he went to Indy. My son got his autograph years ago when he came to his school for a talk on good sportsmanship.

I feel totally saddened and so disappointed that Dungy has now embraced Vick!

:sad:
'
'
'

[SavannahStar]

I have never, ever, even contemplated torturing and killing animals, human or other wise. There's one he!! of a difference between that and regretting a non felony choice that didn't break laws and harm or kill living creatures.

I understand that you think it's excusable behavior and that, as you suggested, he needs another chance and if he does it again, well that's not nice. Once was inexcusable as far as I'm concerned.

Yes, he went to jail, that's his sentence in the penal system. Now he's trying to get on with his life and yes, he wants that millionaire lifestyle back. That doesn't mean he deserves it. It doesn't mean he's even capable of it anymore, and I sincerely hope he isn't.

He has proven that he is one who will prey on the weak and helpless. He has also proven that he will lie to make himself look better, as he did to the FBI when he had agreed to cooperate with them. That is what he's proven to me and others.

He'd say anything to try and make himself look good and get that $$$ and fame. Nothing has changed. He stopped torturing and killing animals because he was caught and forced to stop. He hasn't been doing it because he just got out of jail, where there was no opportunity to do it.


Bravo for that post! I couldn't agree more.

I wouldn't trust MV with a goldfish!!! :cursing:

[dinojen]

It has been thirteen days since Mike Vick joined the Eagles, and there still hasn't been any tangible evidence of meaningful amends-making by Vick in the city in which his new NFL team plays its games.

A recent meeting between Eagles brass and local animal-rights groups resulted in some apparent progress. However, the fact that Vick didn't attend the meeting isn't encouraging.

And for those who respond to Vick's lack of activity by pointing out that he's focusing on his new job, the fact remains that Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie made it clear when Vick joined the team that Vick was expected to be proactive in matters unrelated to football.

Look, pro football players don't spend every waking moment perfecting their craft. Unlike football bloggers with OCD, they have free time. So for Vick to win the hearts and minds of the skeptic and the critics, he needs to devote some of that free time to something other than Madden.

Meanwhile, our pal Michael David Smith of FanHouse points out that the Humane Society of the United States recently has released a promotional video featuring excerpts of Vick's Chicago visit, which prompted at the time rumors he might be signing with the Bears.

"I wish I could take back some of the things that I did," Vick says in the video. "But the solution is for me to help more animals than I hurt in the past."

We agree. We're just wondering when that process will begin in earnest. (Or, as Ernie Pantusso would say, in Philadelphia.) Once the season starts and Vick receives clearance to play, it's not as if he'll have more time to convert his words into actions.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/26/eagles-begin-to-mend-fences-with-local-animal-rights-groups/

[Spyder88]

Gee. WHAT a surprise. :rolleyes:

I'm sure Mr. Sincerity has been working on a special vodka dog biscuit. You know. So the dogs he doesn't kill after they lose a fight will feel better. :rolleyes:

I'm tellin' you. I sincerely dislike this sorry excuse for a man. Geez. What a message he's sending to those youngsters who will try to emulate him. Gives me the heebs.

:mad:

[True2Blues]

It has been thirteen days since Mike Vick joined the Eagles, and there still hasn't been any tangible evidence of meaningful amends-making by Vick in the city in which his new NFL team plays its games.

A recent meeting between Eagles brass and local animal-rights groups resulted in some apparent progress. However, the fact that Vick didn't attend the meeting isn't encouraging.

And for those who respond to Vick's lack of activity by pointing out that he's focusing on his new job, the fact remains that Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie made it clear when Vick joined the team that Vick was expected to be proactive in matters unrelated to football.

Look, pro football players don't spend every waking moment perfecting their craft. Unlike football bloggers with OCD, they have free time. So for Vick to win the hearts and minds of the skeptic and the critics, he needs to devote some of that free time to something other than Madden.

Meanwhile, our pal Michael David Smith of FanHouse points out that the Humane Society of the United States recently has released a promotional video featuring excerpts of Vick's Chicago visit, which prompted at the time rumors he might be signing with the Bears.

"I wish I could take back some of the things that I did," Vick says in the video. "But the solution is for me to help more animals than I hurt in the past."

We agree. We're just wondering when that process will begin in earnest. (Or, as Ernie Pantusso would say, in Philadelphia.) Once the season starts and Vick receives clearance to play, it's not as if he'll have more time to convert his words into actions.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/26/eagles-begin-to-mend-fences-with-local-animal-rights-groups/

"I wish I could take back SOME of the things I did." Exactly. Whatever got him caught, presumably.

I can't imagine any decent honorable animal rescue wanting to be associated with an unrepentant animal abuser like Vick.

[True2Blues]

Gee. WHAT a surprise. :rolleyes:

I'm sure Mr. Sincerity has been working on a special vodka dog biscuit. You know. So the dogs he doesn't kill after they lose a fight will feel better. :rolleyes:

I'm tellin' you. I sincerely dislike this sorry excuse for a man. Geez. What a message he's sending to those youngsters who will try to emulate him. Gives me the heebs.

:mad:

He hasn't even started the season and he's flaunting his arrogance, while the NFL ignores it. It's pathetic.

[Noahs ARK]

Most hate filled thread I've seen lately. Wonder how many of those without-sin/error people are posting do so just because they can sprew hate without worry.

I'd be more than happy to "spew the same hatred" to Vick's face if I got the chance.

You've been posting here long enough to know that the majority of us on this thread are involved in animal rescue.

Do you have any idea the sacrifices most of us make so that we can bring "just one more" abused or abandoned animal into our homes because of people like Vick?

Somebody could hold a gun to my head and I still wouldn't do to an animal what Vick did.

What Vick did with PLEASURE.

Vick - who could have saved thousands of animals with the money he made, chose to torture and kill.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - give a person power and/or money and you will SEE what they're made of.

He sure showed us, didn't he?

[True2Blues]

I'd be more than happy to "spew the same hatred" to Vick's face if I got the chance.

You've been posting here long enough to know that the majority of us on this thread are involved in animal rescue.

Do you have any idea the sacrifices most of us make so that we can bring "just one more" abused or abandoned animal into our homes because of people like Vick?

Somebody could hold a gun to my head and I still wouldn't do to an animal what Vick did.

What Vick did with PLEASURE.

Vick - who could have saved thousands of animals with the money he made, chose to torture and kill.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - give a person power and/or money and you will SEE what they're made of.

He sure showed us, didn't he?

Yes he did. There's nothing I say here I wouldn't say to his smug, arrogant face either, Noah.

[Spyder88]

See there’s that cynicism again :sad:

With the help of former Indianapolis head coach and mentor Tony Dungy, Michael Vick experienced an epiphany while behind bars in federal prison, and has dedicated himself to both divine worship and the protection of animals (most especially, man’s best friend)

Cynicism, again? What? You have a problem with the truth? I didn't make up some story about his penchant for vodka.

Michael Vick has Tony Dungy and others like him so snowed it's pathetic. He's taken advantage of a Christian man and anyone else foolish and gullible enough to believe his lies. I wouldn't trust Michael Vick if his tongue came notorized.

I shudder to think of the poor animals that will suffer when he gets the urge to gamble on them and watch as they are forced to tear each other to shreds.

He's an idiot and a thug. I couldn't care less if he dropped off the face of the earth. Simple as that. You and Mr. Dungy can have him. I don't want him. He's too sick for me. Vick and his lifestyle are nothing but a disappointment to anyone with a sense of fair play.

[bchand]

Obviously I can’t change your mind, but it should be interesting tonight when the Pennsylvania chapter of the NAACP (who wholeheartedly support Michael Vick) square off with the Pennsylvania chapter of the SPCA (who are protesting Michael Vicks presence on the Philadelphia eagles) :ohmy:

Btw: Michael Vick is scheduled to play tonight to display his talent (and no not torturing animals :angry: only torturing other teams defensive schemes)

A poll in a local paper about the game tonight:

What will the fan response be when Michael Vick takes the field for the Eagles on Thursday?

Total votes: 928

Wild Applause - 7.7%
Applause & Boos - 44.7%
Wild boos - 32.9%
Throw Stuff - 11.9%
Other - 2.9%


My son is going to the game tonight. I'll be anxious to ask him about the reaction.

[True2Blues]

A poll in a local paper about the game tonight:

What will the fan response be when Michael Vick takes the field for the Eagles on Thursday?

Total votes: 928

Wild Applause - 7.7%
Applause & Boos - 44.7%
Wild boos - 32.9%
Throw Stuff - 11.9%
Other - 2.9%


My son is going to the game tonight. I'll be anxious to ask him about the reaction.

I hope he reports that Vick has lost whatever talent he had and is as worthless a football player as he is a human being.

[ChocHollyK]

I don't give a damn about his public appearances on behalf of the Humane Society, or any other animal rights/animal protection societies.
Words are easy to come by and cheap.

Mr. Vick, find sanctuaries for abused and abandoned animals. Don't take your sorry *** NEAR them; instead send approximately 60-70% of your earnings from the NFL and any other financial advantages you gain; for instance, commercials, etc.

Keep your mouth shut; I don't believe a word out of it anyway. Just fund the places that protect animals, that keep them safe and fed and cared for ... I'm not talking about shelters that are forced to keep animals caged up, where they have to defecate within three feet of their own meal... You can send money to humane societies also, because those poor caged animals need food and water and care also, but.....
You can find plenty of them, the sanctuaries.... don't go NEAR them, just send the money to them. Give the animals there a chance to be free of fear and starvation and violence...
Give .....

This would be the ONLY sign whatsoever that you have genuine regret and genuine remorse for what you've done. I see NO OTHER sign whatsoever of your change of heart.

Words are the cheapest of commodities, so keep your lying mouth shut. Just send the money, at least 60% of your earnings, for the care, feeding and appreciation of animals who have no voice...

Let's see if you can put your money where your mouth is.... and even if you are still a lying p***k, at least your money will be supporting a very worthy cause....
Let's see where you really stand with this remorse, Mr. Vick.... I'm not talking about gifts here and there... I'm talking about a major and significant commitment of a hefty portion of your earnings....

Cause we are going to be watching you....

[ChocHollyK]

.... and Tony Dungy.... i am sorely disappointed in you. I believe that YOU see what you've done as a Christian action.
i don't. A Christian extends hope, prayers, faith, and information about our Savior, and when warranted, intervention and possibly funds.

But what you've done, in my opinion, is to sugar coat the violent, hateful, self-centered actions of a young man who needs to first show US, all of us, that he is truly changed. Stepping out of prison when his term is up, or his probation begins, has not been a BIT of Mr. Vick's own doing; instead, it is the administration of a legality.

Each and every other prisoner that walks out those doors are asked to conduct himself in certain ways, to fulfill certain obligations, before trust is again extended to him.

WHY are you not asking the same of Michael Vick?
Truly, I am serious when I say I am deeply disappointed by your actions, Mr. Dungy.

[lilismom]

I wouldn't trust Michael Vick if his tongue came notorized.


SNIPPED

Toooooo funny! :lol: That's the best line I've heard in a long time!

IMO,
Lilismom

[bchand]

Well given the way the eagles fans generally acted up outside of the hotel room at Alltell stadium in Jacksonville, Florida for super bowl 39’ (Patriot's vs Eagles) I’d guess (and rightfully so) that Vick will be greeted with thunderous applause :wink:

The same local paper that did that poll is reporting that he got a standing ovation when he entered the field.

I just emailed my son to see what he says happened. I'll post his reply.

[Kat4Eagles]

The same local paper that did that poll is reporting that he got a standing ovation when he entered the field.

I just emailed my son to see what he says happened. I'll post his reply.


Oh, it did happen!!
The minute he walked on the field, the crowd broke out in thunderous applause and cheers!!
It even took Vick back a little bit, he did not expect all that.
Either did I , and I am in shock.
He has already won over a city that boasts one of the toughest crowds in sports history.

:shrug:

Kat

[Kat4Eagles]

Eagle Fans Greet Vick Warmly......

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20090828_Eagles_Fans_greet_Vick_warmly.html

[Noahs ARK]

Oh, it did happen!!
The minute he walked on the field, the crowd broke out in thunderous applause and cheers!!


Yeah - I saw it on CNN this morning.

[SavannahStar]

Yeah - I saw it on CNN this morning.

Sick, isn't it? Really, really sick. To actually applaud and cheer for a depraved animal killer.

:sad:
'
'
'

[True2Blues]

Sick, isn't it? Really, really sick. To actually applaud and cheer for a depraved animal killer.

:sad:
'
'
'

It is sick. The stadium was only half full supposedly, but it's still sick.

[bchand]

The fans in philly were no doubt ushering in a new era for eagles football which suddenly includes a quarterback controversy :ohmy:

I don't think so. Donovan McNabb wanted him with the Eagles. No controversy there.

[bchand]

Oh, it did happen!!
The minute he walked on the field, the crowd broke out in thunderous applause and cheers!!
It even took Vick back a little bit, he did not expect all that.
Either did I , and I am in shock.
He has already won over a city that boasts one of the toughest crowds in sports history.

:shrug:

Kat

I must say I'm really surprised. The fans have such a reputation for being "boo birds".

Here's my son's (who went to the game) reply when I emailed him for his take on it. lol


It wasn't really a standing ovation, but a lot of people did cheer - I was surprised too....although I swear I could replace mcnabb and they would cheer........

[R~O~S]

So we'll see how it goes. I'm glad to hear it wasn't really a standing ovation - and that the stadium was only half full. I gather MV didn't play all that well. If he doesn't step it up they will boo him for sure. Too bad they would likely boo him for not playing well - and not becasue he is an awful human being.
So I guess it was decided that he didn't break parole by drinking vodka? How can that be? I thought there were pretty strict rules for his parole.

Ahhh but it is, unfortunately a reporter putting it in an article isn't proof. If just saying it was enough, I'm sure there would be a good many people saying exactly that to get the neighborhood sex offender bounced back into jail.

I'm sure he heard about it from his parole officer, the humane society and the team though, along with a warning that type of venue wouldn't be appropriate regardless of what's in his glass.

[True2Blues]

There’s no use in living in denial people; Michael Vick is a big hit in philly and short of demeaning the cheese steak or the liberty bell he’ll remain on top :thumbup:

And he'll still be an unrepentant animal abuser and dog killer.

[Noahs ARK]

There’s no use in living in denial people; Michael Vick is a big hit in philly and short of demeaning the cheese steak or the liberty bell he’ll remain on top :thumbup:

Pretty sad statement for mankind when a cheese steak is more important than a living, breathing animal being tortured and killed.

[True2Blues]

I agree what vick did was horrible :flamemad: but there are those of us who are enlightened enough to understand that michael vicks actions were those of someone who was raised in a culture in which dog fighting was commonplace; and as michael vick indicated in his 60 minutes interview “even the local police turned a deaf ear when they witnessed dog fighting” reinforcing his belief that dog fighting and side-betting on various methods of torture were ok :ohmy:

That's a popular excuse among criminals, true enough. When Danny Rolling the "Gainsville Ripper" spoke before being sentenced for 5 sadistic murders, he also claimed to be a product of 'society' and his upbringing. Oddly enough, his brother isn't a murderer.

Yet, when it comes right down to it, not everyone raised in the same culture as Michael Vick bankrolls dog fighting and takes sadistic pleasure in torturing and murdering dogs.

Michael Vick had a choice. That's the bottom line.

I don't care how he was raised, he knew all along that what he was doing was against the law and that torturing and killing animals was wrong, morally and legally. Never once did he think it was 'okay' or he never would have tried to hide his operation from the law. It would have been out in the open.

[ChocHollyK]

Ahhh but it is, unfortunately a reporter putting it in an article isn't proof. If just saying it was enough, I'm sure there would be a good many people saying exactly that to get the neighborhood sex offender bounced back into jail.

I'm sure he heard about it from his parole officer, the humane society and the team though, along with a warning that type of venue wouldn't be appropriate regardless of what's in his glass.

Oh, so Vick has already violated parole?
I didn't know that and I am not at all surprised. He really has paid no significant price for his unthinkable crime.

I am astounded by those who come in here and defend the NFL putting him back on the field and on the payroll.

And, a prior post mentioned something about Vick's not having been around animals and thus, not having an understanding about it not being okay to abuse and torture them....
Please.............
Humanity carries with it instincts and emotions, we easily decide to protect and defend those beings that cannot protect themselves in certain situations....
this is a natural reaction.... if a breathing, sociable animal wags a tail, nuzzles your arm, licks your hand....
okay, you either get that or you don't....
apparently Michael Vick didn't ever get that OR his ego and self-importance and GREED convinced his soul to ignore the caring reactions....
I will be forever sick over this entire situation, just as I am over every story I ever hear about animal abuse...
I'm not kidding; the stories and facts stay with me FORRRREVER!!
while some don't even respond at all.....

[SavannahStar]

I’m sorry but I wouldn’t equate a serial killer with a serial dog killer :thumbdown:

While I admit serial killers often begin with animals and work their way up to humans, to suggest or even hint at the possibility that the two are somehow similar in scope is preposterous.

Michael Vick witnessed his first dog fight at the age of 5 and the local authorities did nothing; other than perhaps (and I’m speculating here) possibly laid down a bet or two

Yeh blame it on the "authorities" there ya go. :rolleyes:

So he was raised in an area that thought dog-fighting was okay? Did that include slamming dogs on the floor and killing them if they didn't fight satisfactorily? Oh SORRY, but I can "somewhat" understand the excuse of being brought up where dog-fighting was the social norm (not really) but I CANNOT ever believe that ANY normal person would think the torture killing of a dog would be okay, for whatever reason.

You know, even hunters kill their prey mercifully. They don't TORTURE deer and other game. :cursing:

[R~O~S]

You seem to be suggesting that michael vick is sadistic; instead of merely accepting of a lifestyle common among ancient cultures for thousands of years; the pitting of animal against animal, man against man, or insect against insect, for public entertainment and gaming :mad:

Even if we accept your suggestion that man is unable to evolve & we've failed to become civilized, where in your description is man torturing animals with his own hand?

Sorry guy, you can try to explain it away from now until doomsday, it won't change the fact that Michael Vick, by his own hand used methods such as slamming them to the ground, hanging & electrocution to kill dogs himself.

Not his lackeys, not some hired hand, but the money man, the CEO, the corporate leader for the operation took pleasure in killing animals himself.

Last time I checked, CEO's don't do the dirty work unless they enjoy it.

[True2Blues]

I’m sorry but I wouldn’t equate a serial killer with a serial dog killer :thumbdown:

While I admit serial killers often begin with animals and work their way up to humans, to suggest or even hint at the possibility that the two are somehow similar in scope is preposterous.

Michael Vick witnessed his first dog fight at the age of 5 and the local authorities did nothing; other than perhaps (and I’m speculating here) possibly laid down a bet or two :ohmy:

I said they're both criminals, both trying to blame their hideous crimes on anyone but themselves. Those who are enlightened about criminals can see the connection, even if you can't. Personal responsibility is the last thing criminals want to accept.

Michael Vick is an adult. He knew perfectly well that he was breaking the law and he knew that torturing and killing animals is wrong in every way. I don't care where he was raised. He wasn't hiding what he was doing because he was sure it was legal and right.

He's no Einstein,but he also isn't so stupid he doesn't know torturing and killing dogs is legally and morally wrong. Dog fighting is a big issue, one openly advertised against, as is animal abuse and killing innocent dogs. He couldn't be unaware, but he most certainly showed himself sadistic, unempathetic to suffering, cruel, and demented. Not to mention willing to victimize those who were under his control and had no voice to tell others.

[SavannahStar]

I’m guessing (and this is mere conjecture) that michael vick has been around dog fighting for so long that he could no longer derive pleasure by simply fighting dogs; he had to torture and kill them as well :ohmy:

His bout of voyeurism cost him dearly, but he should be pitied not chastised :mad:


"He should be pitied".........

Now I've really heard it all.........

Wow. Just wow. :angry:

[True2Blues]

I’m guessing (and this is mere conjecture) that michael vick has been around dog fighting for so long that he could no longer derive pleasure by simply fighting dogs; he had to torture and kill them as well :ohmy:

His bout of voyeurism cost him dearly, but he should be pitied not chastised :mad:

That wasn't voyeurism, it was sadistic cruelty and deserves chastising and punishment.

Trying to blame it on his upbringing and 'culture' is a bunch of manure. It's simply a way to shift blame to everyone but the person who is truly responsible. Typical of criminals.

He deserves no pity and no more mercy than he showed those innocent animals.:cursing:

[True2Blues]

"He should be pitied".........

Now I've really heard it all.........

Wow. Just wow. :angry:

It's typical of criminals to try to avoid personal responsibility. My sympathy is always for the victims, never the sick, sadistic, cruel, abusers. Just grab a shovel and dig on through!

[jaxback]

I’m guessing (and this is mere conjecture) that michael vick has been around dog fighting for so long that he could no longer derive pleasure by simply fighting dogs; he had to torture and kill them as well :ohmy:

His bout of voyeurism cost him dearly, but he should be pitied not chastised :mad:

It's not voyeurism when you actively participate, which he did. And what he did didn't cost him nearly as much as it cost his victims. Why should I waste my pity on a monster who - as you say - derived pleasure from torture and murder? Answer: I don't.

Did you pity Jeffrey Dahmer too?

[SavannahStar]

In addition to spending time in federal prison, michael vick has lost millions in NFL contract negotiations and endorsements - he’s paid his dues; now let him earn a living :thumbup:


I have no problem at all with allowing him to "earn a living." I just think it should be someplace other than the NFL. I believe that our national sports heroes should be morally above reproach. Unfortunately that's doesn't seem to be the case in so many instances, but Goodall sure missed a chance to send a message. Our children need people to look up to and admire, not only for their athletic ability but also for how they conduct themselves in their personal daily life. Vick TORTURED animals. To me, that is the bottom line. Let him go get a job on a garbage truck or cleaning out cages in a zoo.

[IcyLogic]

It's not voyeurism when you actively participate, which he did. And what he did didn't cost him nearly as much as it cost his victims. Why should I waste my pity on a monster who - as you say - derived pleasure from torture and murder? Answer: I don't.

Did you pity Jeffrey Dahmer too?


Hmm I wasn't aware of any murder in this case. I understood he was convicted of crimes against animals.

Can you post a link to the murder?

[Spyder88]

Hmm I wasn't aware of any murder in this case. I understood he was convicted of crimes against animals.

Can you post a link to the murder?

Some people consider the killing of an animal to be murder. I don't. But some do. Therefore, I think any Vick link regarding the abuse and killing of his "pets" would suffice for those believing he's right up there with actual human killing. The step from animal killing to human killing isn't all that far, after all.

[IcyLogic]

Some people consider the killing of an animal to be murder. I don't. But some do. Therefore, I think any Vick link regarding the abuse and killing of his "pets" would suffice for those believing he's right up there with actual human killing. The step from animal killing to human killing isn't all that far, after all.

I disagree that the killing of animals be called murder. Its used in this context only as further justification for whatever punishment the writers see fit to heap upon Vick.

Labeling him a murderer makes it so much easier to demand he not be allowed to pursue his chosen career and earn a decent living.

Killing animals for sport is cruel and unjustifiable, but it ain't murder. The killing of humans is a far more serious crime and trying to make the two the same thing is hugely misguided at best, and much more likely to be deliberate self-serving misinformation.

Whilst we all know there are certain links between animal abuse and serial killings, I'm pretty sure Vick isn't going to go on to become a serial killer. He did the crime, did the time, and deserves a second chance to turn his life around.

[lilismom]

I have no problem at all with allowing him to "earn a living." I just think it should be someplace other than the NFL. I believe that our national sports heroes should be morally above reproach. Unfortunately that's doesn't seem to be the case in so many instances, but Goodall sure missed a chance to send a message. Our children need people to look up to and admire, not only for their athletic ability but also for how they conduct themselves in their personal daily life. Vick TORTURED animals. To me, that is the bottom line. Let him go get a job on a garbage truck or cleaning out cages in a zoo.

Two jobs that someone's hero probably does for a living.

Isn't it our job as parents to guide our own children? Don't misunderstand, what he did and allowed to be done and funded was and is disgusting. But, is he or any other "celebrity" worthy of hero status to my child? Isn't it my job as the parent to help decide the lessons my child learns from things like this?

IMO,
Lilismom

[RayStar]

I disagree that the killing of animals be called murder. Its used in this context only as further justification for whatever punishment the writers see fit to heap upon Vick.

Labeling him a murderer makes it so much easier to demand he not be allowed to pursue his chosen career and earn a decent living.

Killing animals for sport is cruel and unjustifiable, but it ain't murder. The killing of humans is a far more serious crime and trying to make the two the same thing is hugely misguided at best, and much more likely to be deliberate self-serving misinformation.

Whilst we all know there are certain links between animal abuse and serial killings, I'm pretty sure Vick isn't going to go on to become a serial killer. He did the crime, did the time, and deserves a second chance to turn his life around.Thank you for this post. Yes, Vick did not commit murder.

I wish he had not killed the dogs but it is time for him to get his life back on track. Vick was a good QB. I rather he earn a living than we the people taking care of him.

[SavannahStar]

Two jobs that someone's hero probably does for a living.

Isn't it our job as parents to guide our own children? Don't misunderstand, what he did and allowed to be done and funded was and is disgusting. But, is he or any other "celebrity" worthy of hero status to my child? Isn't it my job as the parent to help decide the lessons my child learns from things like this?

IMO,
Lilismom

I think Tony Dungy is a good case in point...a star NFL coach who has lived in his personal life with a high moral standard. He certainly was worthy of hero status, IMO. Until he embraced Michael Vick. :cursing:

Let's put it this way, certainly parents have the job of teaching their children lessons from things like this. What's the lesson here though? You kill animals, go to prison, and then you're right back earning millions again in pro football, as if nothing ever happened. Some lesson. :thumbdown:

[IcyLogic]

I think Tony Dungy is a good case in point...a star NFL coach who has lived in his personal life with a high moral standard. He certainly was worthy of hero status, IMO. Until he embraced Michael Vick. :cursing:

Let's put it this way, certainly parents have the job of teaching their children lessons from things like this. What's the lesson here though? You kill animals, go to prison, and then you're right back earning millions again in pro football, as if nothing ever happened. Some lesson. :thumbdown:

We should be teaching our kids that there is forgiveness and redemption in this world, not that doing something wrong marks one forever as an outcast.

Crime, punishment and a chance at redemtion... thats how it should work. Not Crime punishment punishment punishment ad infinitum.

I'd rather save a lifetime of punishment for those who commit capital and child related crimes. Not animal abuse.

[SavannahStar]

You have a point - but realistically I would want young people to know that there are acts that many people will never forgive you for committing. We could start listing them - but the torture of those who cannot defend themselves - animals and people will be very high on the list.
And the fact is that, at the moment, there is nothing to show that MV is sorry about anything except getting caught and losing a lot of time and money. Personally I think he resents not being able to drink and does not accept that punishment. I think it is very likely he will get caught drinking in a way that is sufficient to be prosecuted and lose his parole .....the next time he is caught, that is. Appararently this last time there was not enought evidence to prosecute.

Oh I hope, I hope, I hope! :thumbup:

[SavannahStar]

We should be teaching our kids that there is forgiveness and redemption in this world, not that doing something wrong marks one forever as an outcast.

Crime, punishment and a chance at redemtion... thats how it should work. Not Crime punishment punishment punishment ad infinitum.

I'd rather save a lifetime of punishment for those who commit capital and child related crimes. Not animal abuse.


Personally I wasn't asking for a "lifetime of punishment" for him. Only that he not be allowed back in the NFL.

[True2Blues]

Personally I wasn't asking for a "lifetime of punishment" for him. Only that he not be allowed back in the NFL.

That's what this is about. No one said he didn't serve his time in jail, we all understand he did that, it's his presence in the NFL that we believe isn't right.

[lilismom]

That's what this is about. No one said he didn't serve his time in jail, we all understand he did that, it's his presence in the NFL that we believe isn't right.


**Please don't think that by discussing these issues that I am in any way condoning what he did.**

The NFL is his JOB. It is what he does for a living. Do sports stars earn glory and adoration plus millions of dollars? Yep. But its still their job. So he should go do what instead? I realize that no one cares what he knows how to do outside of football but that really is the point. The NFL didn't see fit to ban him so he's back to work. Isn't the problem then with the NFL and not necessarily with Michael Vick?

IMO,
Lilismom

[lilismom]

I think Tony Dungy is a good case in point...a star NFL coach who has lived in his personal life with a high moral standard. He certainly was worthy of hero status, IMO. Until he embraced Michael Vick. :cursing:

Let's put it this way, certainly parents have the job of teaching their children lessons from things like this. What's the lesson here though? You kill animals, go to prison, and then you're right back earning millions again in pro football, as if nothing ever happened. Some lesson. :thumbdown:

You gotta believe there is something there for Dungy to embrace him as you said. I don't believe this man would put his reputation on the line for Vick if he didn't truly think he deserved it. Why would he?

Its hardly as if nothing ever happened. The boos have been heard around the country for allowing him back in the NFL and then signing with the Eagles. I'm sure everywhere he goes he has to deal with what he did and I'm not saying that he shouldn't. He'll always be Michael Vick the dog killer. Whether he's playing football or not.

IMO,
Lilismom

[Rangerx1]

A good article, and why my donations now go to ASPCA rather than split with the Humane Society given their stance with Vick.

http://www.aspca.org/blog/ed-sayres-the-road-ahead-for.html

<snipped>

60 Minutes provided a convicted criminal a national platform to selfishly focus on his own recovery when, in fact, the animals, the victims who cannot speak for themselves, should have received the attention. CBS did a grave disservice to the animal welfare community by failing to show the ugly truth of Mr. Vick’s actions and the horrors of dog fighting and animal cruelty in this country. The continued attention paid to Mr. Vick is only reinforcing that criminal behavior does not destroy fame and fortune.

[Spyder88]

Two jobs that someone's hero probably does for a living.

Isn't it our job as parents to guide our own children? Don't misunderstand, what he did and allowed to be done and funded was and is disgusting. But, is he or any other "celebrity" worthy of hero status to my child? Isn't it my job as the parent to help decide the lessons my child learns from things like this?

IMO,
Lilismom

Ah, Lilismom. If only all parents were as protective and watchful of their children....

:rose:

[SavannahStar]

You gotta believe there is something there for Dungy to embrace him as you said. I don't believe this man would put his reputation on the line for Vick if he didn't truly think he deserved it. Why would he?

Its hardly as if nothing ever happened. The boos have been heard around the country for allowing him back in the NFL and then signing with the Eagles. I'm sure everywhere he goes he has to deal with what he did and I'm not saying that he shouldn't. He'll always be Michael Vick the dog killer. Whether he's playing football or not.

IMO,
Lilismom

He'll always be Michael Vick the dog killer. Bears repeating.

How true.

[Noahs ARK]

A good article, and why my donations now go to ASPCA rather than split with the Humane Society given their stance with Vick.

http://www.aspca.org/blog/ed-sayres-the-road-ahead-for.html

More from the article - thank you for the link, Ranger. I encourage everyone to read it.

Several months ago, Mr. Vick's PR representatives approached the ASPCA to help educate America about the heinous act of dog fighting following his release from prison. We were the first animal welfare organization given the opportunity to work with Mr. Vick but immediately turned him down due to the unique knowledge we had of his indescribable and barbaric acts of animal cruelty where he and his associates savagely electrocuted and beat dogs to death after they lost their brutal fights.

The ASPCA's general consultation and our specific role in processing the forensic evidence in this case were key elements that resulted in Mr. Vick and the three other defendants all pleading guilty to felony crimes. As such, this organization and I personally have seen the acts of cruelty committed by Mr. Vick first hand—acts so heinous that the public has never laid witness to them. And now that Mr. Vick has spoken out for the first time since his release from prison, the ASPCA wants to make clear why this organization chose not to partner with him in his supposed rehabilitation efforts. We are simply not convinced that Mr. Vick has demonstrated compassion toward animals as living beings or the necessary remorse for his criminal actions against them.

ETA ~ I have already contacted the Humane Society to take me off their mailing list. I'll use that money to adopt another abused animal instead.

[SavannahStar]

More from the article - thank you for the link, Ranger. I encourage everyone to read it.

Several months ago, Mr. Vick's PR representatives approached the ASPCA to help educate America about the heinous act of dog fighting following his release from prison. We were the first animal welfare organization given the opportunity to work with Mr. Vick but immediately turned him down due to the unique knowledge we had of his indescribable and barbaric acts of animal cruelty where he and his associates savagely electrocuted and beat dogs to death after they lost their brutal fights.

The ASPCA's general consultation and our specific role in processing the forensic evidence in this case were key elements that resulted in Mr. Vick and the three other defendants all pleading guilty to felony crimes. As such, this organization and I personally have seen the acts of cruelty committed by Mr. Vick first hand—acts so heinous that the public has never laid witness to them. And now that Mr. Vick has spoken out for the first time since his release from prison, the ASPCA wants to make clear why this organization chose not to partner with him in his supposed rehabilitation efforts. We are simply not convinced that Mr. Vick has demonstrated compassion toward animals as living beings or the necessary remorse for his criminal actions against them.

ETA ~ I have already contacted the Humane Society to take me off their mailing list. I'll use that money to adopt another abused animal instead.

WONDERFUL statement! I'm with you.....I want nothing to do with the Humane Society, nothing! I mean, I expected PETA to embrace Michael Vick......but the Humane Society??!!!!! :cursing:

ASPCA ROCKS!!! :thumbsup:

[R~O~S]

**Please don't think that by discussing these issues that I am in any way condoning what he did.**

The NFL is his JOB. It is what he does for a living. Do sports stars earn glory and adoration plus millions of dollars? Yep. But its still their job. So he should go do what instead? I realize that no one cares what he knows how to do outside of football but that really is the point. The NFL didn't see fit to ban him so he's back to work. Isn't the problem then with the NFL and not necessarily with Michael Vick?

IMO,
Lilismom


Untrue, Michael Vick was indefinitely suspended from the league. His crimes definitively fall within the parameters of the NFL code of conduct instituted by Com Goodell allowing for a lifetime ban & his reinstatement is "conditional". The Com has not yet cleared him to play with the Eagles or anyone else for the regular season.

As a result, I'm glad the Eagles are today faced with trying to decide whether to cut him from the roster. If they keep him, they risk having a player taking up a valuable spot who may not be eligible to play.

At best, he won't be eligible until the sixth game of the season, but it is not by any stretch of the imagination a given he'll be eligible then.

He's been given this time to show what/how he's going to show his remorse & rehabilitate his personal image. To date, he's done one self serving interview and been spotted in bar rooms only to have it show up in the press.

Not very bright IMO, and definitely indicates he still thinks he's above the rules. I'm sure the commissioner is watching and waiting for that indication he's actually "turned his life around".

http://www.comcast.net/articles/sports-nfl/20090901/Balzer.Vick/

Will Vick Make Eagles Roster?

AP article, no quoting

[True2Blues]

Your logic escapes me :unsure:

You believe he has a right to make a living but not in the NFL

Baltimore Ravens Ray Lewis has been playing since he was indicted by a grand jury on two counts of murder and aggravated assault back in 2000; although the charges were ultimately dropped because it was his bodyguards, not ray, who gunned down the two innocent bystanders like it was the gunfight at the OK Corral :ohmy:


I don't get your logic either. I know there are other criminals in the NFL. They need to clean that league up and that's a fact, but letting even more convicted felons in because others were allowed back, isn't a good enough reason. Two wrongs still don't make a right.

If you are basing this on actual record, Lewis was not prosecuted for murder. He plead to a misdemeanor, did his probation and paid his fine. If you think Felon Vick is so deserving of a place in the NFL, aren't you being a bit disingenuous to support one and condemn the other?

(were there two events? All reports I have seen say stabbing.)

[True2Blues]

My apology you’re right; ray lewis’s companions were charged in the stabbing death of two decatur, georgia residents. although there’s strong evidence to suggest that lewis encouraged the attacks :ohmy:

My point being; there are guys in the NFL that have committed crimes commiserate with vicks and there’s no one out there questioning their presence - so why single out Michael Vick?

From things I've seen on this board and in articles about Vick being allowed back in, there are a lot of people who question the presence of other felons in the NFL.

The answer isn't to let another one in because they've already got a collection of them, it should be to clean house. If they can't oust the others, then now is a good time to start fixing the mess. Their presence does not excuse Vick's crime.

As for singling out Vick, what he did was reprehensible. To torture and kill innocent animals, creatures rendered helpless, who can't ask for help, simply because it brings a person pleasure is sick, demented and it doesn't go away. He has no empathy for the suffering of living creatures, that will never change not at his age, it's ingrained into his personality. He would say anything to get the public to support him, he's a proven liar.

This is not a person who belongs in an organization that is known for covering it's players illegal activities when it can.

He's arrogant and unrepentant about it and I believe that he is a dangerous person. Athletes spend a lot of time with children's charities, MV is that last person who needs to be around children. He doesn't deserve to be painted the Patron Saint of Animals after what he's done either, but they're trying that too.

As far as he's concerned, he can do whatever he wants and be rewarded with millions of dollars and lots of attention. This sick, dangerous, individual is not a person who needs any more encouragement to believe he is entitled to do as he pleases, because he believes he's above the law.

[R~O~S]

My apology you’re right; ray lewis’s companions were charged in the stabbing death of two decatur, georgia residents. although there’s strong evidence to suggest that lewis encouraged the attacks :ohmy:

My point being; there are guys in the NFL that have committed crimes commiserate with vicks and there’s no one out there questioning their presence - so why single out Michael Vick?

The entire reason the new code of conduct was instituted by Commissioner Goodell in April of 2007 was in response to not only the Lewis situation but the entire Dallas Cowboys lineup of bad boys giving the game and the league a bad name.

The Ray Lewis incident dates back to 2000, long before Goodell was commissioner, and long before his highly public vow to clean up the league.

It's time for the Commissioner to put up or admit his policy was nothing more than a public relations ploy.

There is nothing ambiguous about the new code of conduct. There was none before Commissioner Goodell took over. You can't ban people from the league when there's no policy in place to support it.

The players are unionized, lacking a policy that allowed suspension or banning from the league in clear language, there was little that could be done with a player who had legal issues but either beat them or didn't end up in a jail cell during the playing season resulting in them missing playing time.

The new code doesn't even require legal charges be filed. A determination that their behavior reflects negatively on the league or the game is enough to allow the Commissioner to ban them for life & there in lies the difference.

[lilismom]

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/ESPN-Michael-Vick-Ruling-Likely-by-Cut-Day-56880727.html

Ruling is expected by Saturday - the Eagles' cut day.

IMO,
Lilismom

[dinojen]

What a bunch of bogus crappolla... really really disgusting in my opinion.. won't post what I really hope happens to him first game out.. would have to go to confession on Saturday and it's a holiday weekend..

I am just totally disgusted with this decision, he got off way to easy.. and you watch he won't do jack diddly as far as community service..

Whatever.. glad he isn't on my team... the Eagles can have him... :barf:

[True2Blues]

A success story that is good for society? :rolleyes: A big slice of society is utterly appalled at what both Vick and Goodall have done. Looks like the NFL will remain a haven for felons.

Where he thinks it will benefit society to know that torturing animals to death can be pushed to the side and the killer rewarded I don't know.

[R~O~S]

Well it’s good to know that without those new rules in place; you’d wholeheartedly support MV effort for full reinstatement :rolleyes:

Who exactly said that? You do know what happens when you A.S.S-U-M.E, correct?

You want to hold the same standard to players from the year 2000 as the players of today. The players of 2000 are exactly the reason the rules had to be changed.

Civilized human beings shouldn't need a personal code of conduct to realize that it's a privilege to play in the NFL, not a right.

I'm so sorry you don't know the history of the league and therefore gave a totally faulty example of why MV shouldn't suffer the consequences of his actions knowing full well what the policy changes were.

Don't ever try to misconstrue my words again. TIA

[Spyder88]

From things I've seen on this board and in articles about Vick being allowed back in, there are a lot of people who question the presence of other felons in the NFL.

The answer isn't to let another one in because they've already got a collection of them, it should be to clean house. If they can't oust the others, then now is a good time to start fixing the mess. Their presence does not excuse Vick's crime.

As for singling out Vick, what he did was reprehensible. To torture and kill innocent animals, creatures rendered helpless, who can't ask for help, simply because it brings a person pleasure is sick, demented and it doesn't go away. He has no empathy for the suffering of living creatures, that will never change not at his age, it's ingrained into his personality. He would say anything to get the public to support him, he's a proven liar.

This is not a person who belongs in an organization that is known for covering it's players illegal activities when it can.

He's arrogant and unrepentant about it and I believe that he is a dangerous person. Athletes spend a lot of time with children's charities, MV is that last person who needs to be around children. He doesn't deserve to be painted the Patron Saint of Animals after what he's done either, but they're trying that too.

As far as he's concerned, he can do whatever he wants and be rewarded with millions of dollars and lots of attention. This sick, dangerous, individual is not a person who needs any more encouragement to believe he is entitled to do as he pleases, because he believes he's above the law.

This is a very eloquent and wonderful post, True!!! :thumbsup:

[IcyLogic]

There are certain occupations out there which a criminal record can prevent you working at.

NFL isn't one of them. And there are many reason why it should stay that way.

Our justice system was designed to work in such a way that once one's punishment has been completed, we allow the criminal a chance to continue on with life. What that criminal does with that chance is up to him.

MV is using that chance to regain full employment, and hopefully avoid any further criminal acts. I'm pretty sure the scrutiny he will be under will effectively make recidivism in his case impossible.

Instead of supporting what is ostensibly a successful outcome, (criminal punished, criminal avoids crime and pursues a full time job) here you are demanding he gets a further punishment not mandated by law.

In lesser crimes we don't require repentance, we only require that one does ones time and one doesn't re-offend.

As always what worries me here is the need so many seem to show for revenge. That shouldn't be any part of our justice system, thats why we have courts and not lynch mobs deciding the punishments meted out for each crime.

If Vick stays away from owning and fighting dogs and being in any way involved with animal cruelty, he should be allowed to go on his way unmolested by those who cannot accept he has paid his debt to society.

[True2Blues]

Commissioner Roger Goodall will be having an online chat this Tuesday September 8 at 2pm EST. Questions can be sent in advance, an address is given near the bottom of the article linked if anyone would like to ask what he was thinking reinstating Vick.

Not that he'll give more than lip service, but if you're interested.

http://www.examiner.com/x-13860-Sacramento-Dog-Rescue-Examiner~y2009m9d4-Michael-Vicks-lame-game-feels-like-retribution

[SPYCEE]

There are certain occupations out there which a criminal record can prevent you working at.

NFL isn't one of them. And there are many reason why it should stay that way.

Our justice system was designed to work in such a way that once one's punishment has been completed, we allow the criminal a chance to continue on with life. What that criminal does with that chance is up to him.

MV is using that chance to regain full employment, and hopefully avoid any further criminal acts. I'm pretty sure the scrutiny he will be under will effectively make recidivism in his case impossible.

Instead of supporting what is ostensibly a successful outcome, (criminal punished, criminal avoids crime and pursues a full time job) here you are demanding he gets a further punishment not mandated by law.

In lesser crimes we don't require repentance, we only require that one does ones time and one doesn't re-offend.

As always what worries me here is the need so many seem to show for revenge. That shouldn't be any part of our justice system, thats why we have courts and not lynch mobs deciding the punishments meted out for each crime.

If Vick stays away from owning and fighting dogs and being in any way involved with animal cruelty, he should be allowed to go on his way unmolested by those who cannot accept he has paid his debt to society.

:beer: This impressive, eloquent post needs to be repeated.

Thank God for the Justice System...or MV would have been tarred and feathered and hung from the highest tree by mob mentality.

He served his time! He deserves the chance, like anyone else, to prove he is a changed man.

GOOOOOOOOOO EAGLES (my team)!:thumbsup:

[Doc Holliday]

:beer: This impressive, eloquent post needs to be repeated.

Thank God for the Justice System...or MV would have been tarred and feathered and hung from the highest tree by mob mentality.

He served his time! He deserves the chance, like anyone else, to prove he is a changed man.

GOOOOOOOOOO EAGLES (my team)!:thumbsup:

Of course, the type of quarterback that Vick is means that he's over the hill. Sad to say, but he won't help the Eagles at all.

Once again, it will be a disappointing season for the Eagles and their fans. :(

[SPYCEE]

Of course, the type of quarterback that Vick is means that he's over the hill. Sad to say, but he won't help the Eagles at all.

Once again, it will be a disappointing season for the Eagles and their fans. :(

If the Eagles have a disappointing season...it won't have much to do with the presence of MV. Once again, it will have everything to do with the way the team plays...who knows from one season to the next.

I love Donovan McNabb but I must say he has been a single disappointment to me of late. I won't give up on him though.

AGAIN....GOOOOO EAGLES!

[Doc Holliday]

If the Eagles have a disappointing season...it won't have much to do with the presence of MV. Once again, it will have everything to do with the way the team plays...who knows from one season to the next.

I love Donovan McNabb but I must say he has been a single disappointment to me of late. I won't give up on him though.

AGAIN....GOOOOO EAGLES!

Why don't you cheer for a winner for a change, Spycee? The Buffalo Bills have TO now. I think they have a shot at making the SB this year. :)

[SavannahStar]

:beer: This impressive, eloquent post needs to be repeated.

Thank God for the Justice System...or MV would have been tarred and feathered and hung from the highest tree by mob mentality.

He served his time! He deserves the chance, like anyone else, to prove he is a changed man.

GOOOOOOOOOO EAGLES (my team)!


You're kidding, right? :rolleyes: "A changed man"? Maybe he won't participate in dog-fighting anymore. Glory be for that much! Hey listen, if a person can do what HE did to dogs (I'm speaking of the torture and killing...maybe you don't know these details?)....I don't think THAT ever changes. Oh maybe he can curb those tendencies, but he'll always have that ABILITY to torture animals. Sad, that. It's in his personality make-up, psychology, whatever you want to call it. Disgusting! HE is an animal. The animals he killed are better than he is! :cursing:

[SPYCEE]

You're kidding, right? :rolleyes: "A changed man"? Maybe he won't participate in dog-fighting anymore. Glory be for that much! Hey listen, if a person can do what HE did to dogs (I'm speaking of the torture and killing...maybe you don't know these details?)....I don't think THAT ever changes. Oh maybe he can curb those tendencies, but he'll always have that ABILITY to torture animals. Sad, that. It's in his personality make-up, psychology, whatever you want to call it. Disgusting! HE is an animal. The animals he killed are better than he is! :cursing:

Nope, not kidding...are you?

[SPYCEE]

Why don't you cheer for a winner for a change, Spycee? The Buffalo Bills have TO now. I think they have a shot at making the SB this year. :)

Yeah, okay Doc...the Bills are off to a good start to the SB...

AFC East Team W - L - T

Buffalo Bills..... 1 - 4 - 0

Don't even get me started on T.O.

I'll stick with my Eagles...thank you very much. :seeya:

[SavannahStar]

Nope, not kidding...are you?


No. You think a person can kill anything at all..........and not have that "in them" all their life? I don't. Sorry we can agree to disagree.

The man (I use that term loosely) needs to be OUT of the NFL. He is disgusting.

[SPYCEE]

No. You think a person can kill anything at all..........and not have that "in them" all their life? I don't. Sorry we can agree to disagree.

The man (I use that term loosely) needs to be OUT of the NFL. He is disgusting.

Yes, I think a person can kill something....and not have that "in them" all their life.

I'm glad we can agree to disagree. I do agree with you that he may be disgusting...but he still deserves another chance. He did his time for the despicable, disgusting thing he did.

Have a great long weekend!

[Rangerx1]

No. You think a person can kill anything at all..........and not have that "in them" all their life? I don't. Sorry we can agree to disagree.

The man (I use that term loosely) needs to be OUT of the NFL. He is disgusting.


You're right Savannah. MV killed for fun. He found various ways to torture those poor dogs to death. That is not a normal person or someone that just changes with nothing more than words.

[SPYCEE]

Hey Doc H...I forgot...are the Buffalo Bills your team? It's been so long since we have corresponded.

Good luck this season! :biggrin:

[Doc Holliday]

Hey Doc H...I forgot...are the Buffalo Bills your team? It's been so long since we have corresponded.

Good luck this season! :biggrin:

Hello Miss Spycee!... yes, the Bills are my team, and, yes, it's been a while since we corresponded....don't need luck though, because the Bills will shock everybody this season and win it all..... :)

[ChocHollyK]

snipped for space & relevance::



As always what worries me here is the need so many seem to show for revenge. That shouldn't be any part of our justice system, thats why we have courts and not lynch mobs deciding the punishments meted out for each crime.



Excuse me, I can only speak for myself here, but I do speak for myself, and have spoken for myself previously in here.
You have missed the entire point. I have no desire whatsoever to 'seek revenge' on Michael Vick. There is a HUGE difference between justice and revenge.
I have expressed my personal opinion before and will state it again. It sickens me to see Mr. Vick so readily re-instated into a position of wealth, power, and stature, after serving a criminal sentence.
It also sickens me to think of all the young boys and men who emulate their sports heroes. What does this teach the young fans who want to strive for a career in sports; or even just to participate locally?
It teaches everyone that IF you are talented enough, IF an organization needs you financially to a great enough degree, IF there is enough money, you can do just about anything. You can even break the law; you can kill & maim helpless beings who did nothing whatever to deserve such treatment, AND you can profit from that venture, and then, because your "value" to this entity is great enough, you can skip home from your jail cell and start practicing. You're gonna be rich again.

And yes, I know he is required to be of service in his community and yes, I know he has said that he understands and accepts the gravity of his crime.... but... I'm sorry, I am of the belief that MV has had all the right words since his release from prison...

Criminology has shown us that abuse and killing of animals is a first step to far greater crimes. You can vet your little re-recruit all you want....
He should NOT be allowed to just waltz right back in and start over.
The NBA should have stood up and turned a deaf ear to Mr. Vick and to Mr. Dungy.
And.... I will not even begin to speak of how I now think of Mr. Dungy; a man who I always admired and looked up to. I do not doubt his motives, but I think he was as wrong as wrong can be to step into the middle of that, and further, to support the reinstatement of M. Vick.

[seeing_eye]

You're right Savannah. MV killed for fun. He found various ways to torture those poor dogs to death. That is not a normal person or someone that just changes with nothing more than words.

You're right. He is not a normal person. The deplorable acts to which Vick pled guilty give the appearance that he is someone with a depraved character capable of abominable acts. The appearance alone is enough that should prevent an organization from affiliation with him, and especially providing him an opportunity as an NFL athlete to portray himself as some kind of "hero."

I have not seen where Vick has shown any remorse for the deeds he did to those dogs. He has shown remorse for getting caught. He's said he's sorry to people he disappointed such as his fans, his fellow athletes, the NFL. But he's never said he's sorry for what he did to those poor defenseless sentient creatures, creatures that feel pain, both emotional and physical. He has excused his actions by saying he was never aware how some people cared and loved their dogs. Again, he was apologizing to dog owners, but not to the dogs. He's said what he did was immature and that he was using poor judgment. I would not classify what he did as immature or using poor judgment. I think it was being downright evil and depraved. He still is unfeeling and uncaring where the dogs are concerned. We don't need someone of that character in the NFL and held up to our impressionable youth as a "hero."

I know that many people think we should give Michael Vick another chance. Yes, he should have another chance, but not in the NFL. He may have done his time to satisfy the legal system, but in my opinion, that was not nearly enough payment for what he did. I understand Vick has a prior history of working in construction. I haven't heard of any construction worker who is known nationally and adored as a hero by thousands. Let him work in construction.

[ChocHollyK]

Well, there was a time when I did not think OJ would ever have to pay his due here on earth either...

but time and his own sick character did him in, and now, he will either never see the outside of a prison again, or he will be far too old to appreciate it if he does happen to live long enough to be released....

Vick's recompense will come due as well.... I feel almost certain I can count on that. The ability to do the things that he did to helpless, restrained animals will assure that....

His story is not yet finished.....

[SPYCEE]

The NBA should have stood up and turned a deaf ear to Mr. Vick and to Mr. Dungy.


snipped for space & relevance:

The NBA had nothing to do with any of this...only the "NFL" is involved. MV is a quarterback and there is no such thing in the National Basketball Association.

[ChocHollyK]

snipped for space & relevance:

The NBA had nothing to do with any of this...only the "NFL" is involved. MV is a quarterback and there is no such thing in the National Basketball Association.

I am keenly aware of the distinction.
I am such a HUGE fan of basketball, much less so of football, so I guess I just reverted to my first love without even thinking about what I was writing.....

Surely you know that I know the difference... my posts are sprinkled all over this thread....

otherwise, thank you so much for the review....

[SPYCEE]

Well, there was a time when I did not think OJ would ever have to pay his due here on earth either...

but time and his own sick character did him in, and now, he will either never see the outside of a prison again, or he will be far too old to appreciate it if he does happen to live long enough to be released....

Vick's recompense will come due as well.... I feel almost certain I can count on that. The ability to do the things that he did to helpless, restrained animals will assure that....

His story is not yet finished.....

There is absolutely no comparison between what OJ did (and got away with) as versus what MV did (and paid for with his time in prison)...taking nothing away from the gruesome killing of the Pit Bulls.

OJ cold-bloodedly, heinously, murdered two human beings and GOT AWAY WITH MURDER. He left two small innocent children without a mother and another family without their son and brother. The time that OJ is currently spending in prison for kidnapping and robbery does not even begin to pay for a crime he should have gotten the death penalty for.

We will continue to read and hear about the OJ saga...but I'm not sure what you mean by saying MV's story is not yet finished. I'm sure he will be headline news for a long time...but I truly believe he will not repeat his offense or do anything more to send him back to prision. I feel almost certain I can count on that.

At the request of federal authorities before sentencing, MV agreed to deposit nearly $1 million in an escrow account with attorneys for use to reimburse costs of caring for the confiscated dogs, most of which were being offered for adoption on a selective basis under supervision of a court-appointed specialist.

Almost 50 of the dogs have been adopted as versus being put to death by the animal shelters....as would normally be the case because the dogs were trained to fight.

I in no way condone what MV did...but I do believe in giving him a second chance without condemning him forever. JMO

[SPYCEE]

I am keenly aware of the distinction.
I am such a HUGE fan of basketball, much less so of football, so I guess I just reverted to my first love without even thinking about what I was writing.....

Surely you know that I know the difference... my posts are sprinkled all over this thread....

otherwise, thank you so much for the review....

You're welcome! I have only read a sprinkling of most of the posts on this thread because they are generally saying the same thing. I have to admit the post I'm referring to is the only one I read by you.

Not being critical but you said MV has apologized to a lot of people for what he did but...he has never apologized to the dogs. With all due respect...how would he do that?

[True2Blues]

I am keenly aware of the distinction.
I am such a HUGE fan of basketball, much less so of football, so I guess I just reverted to my first love without even thinking about what I was writing.....

Surely you know that I know the difference... my posts are sprinkled all over this thread....

otherwise, thank you so much for the review....

Easy mistake to make. I've found myself typing NHL, because I live for Hockey. I had no problem knowing what you meant, and I agree with you. (no nitpicking here.)

[Spyder88]

You're welcome! I have only read a sprinkling of most of the posts on this thread because they are generally saying the same thing. I have to admit the post I'm referring to is the only one I read by you.

Not being critical but you said MV has apologized to a lot of people for what he did but...he has never apologized to the dogs. With all due respect...how would he do that?

With all due respect...that's exactly the point. He can't apologize to the dogs. What he did to them, even the living ones, he can't apologize to any of them. They are dogs. Innocent creatures who deserve nothing less than respect for their welfare. It would be like apologizing to a two-year-old. They wouldn't get it.

I believe MV is as close to being truly evil as they come. He's shown what kind of "man" he is. I find his presence in the league repulsive. There are too many talented young men deserving of that honor. Not some gambling, dog-torturing, stupid drunk.

What's sad, is the young, impressionable kids out there who will strive to be like their hero. Anyone who says that's not true needs a good dose of reality.

As far as I'm concerned those who choose Vick can have him. :shrug: I think he'd like nothing more than to go to a dog-fighting ring, place his bets, swill his vodka, and clean the blood off his face when it's over.

He cares nothing for the feelings of anyone or anything. He'd rather give a woman vd before confessing he's a carrier. Oh heck yeah, he's a real jewel now that he's learned his lesson. :rolleyes:

[SPYCEE]

With all due respect...that's exactly the point. He can't apologize to the dogs. What he did to them, even the living ones, he can't apologize to any of them. They are dogs. Innocent creatures who deserve nothing less than respect for their welfare. It would be like apologizing to a two-year-old. They wouldn't get it.

I believe MV is as close to being truly evil as they come. He's shown what kind of "man" he is. I find his presence in the league repulsive. There are too many talented young men deserving of that honor. Not some gambling, dog-torturing, stupid drunk.

What's sad, is the young, impressionable kids out there who will strive to be like their hero. Anyone who says that's not true needs a good dose of reality.

As far as I'm concerned those who choose Vick can have him. :shrug: I think he'd like nothing more than to go to a dog-fighting ring, place his bets, swill his vodka, and clean the blood off his face when it's over.

He cares nothing for the feelings of anyone or anything. He'd rather give a woman vd before confessing he's a carrier. Oh heck yeah, he's a real jewel now that he's learned his lesson. :rolleyes:

Thank you for your opinion. The nice thing about message boards is we can agree to disagree.

This is an excerpt from Seeing_Eye's post: "Again, he was apologizing to dog owners, but not to the dogs." I guess you and I interpreted this statement differently...but that's another thing about message boards...it's a matter of interpretation.

I believe in second chances and that includes MV.

Take care and have a nice week! :smile:

[SavannahStar]

Vick to Philly students: Resist following crowd
‘My future was promising ... at some point, I got sidetracked,’ Eagle QB says

("sidetracked"??? That's what he calls it??? :glare:)

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32736793/ns/sports-nfl/

Interesting article. What gets me the most about MV is, in all I've read about his comments about his arrest and incarceration, he NEVER EVER mentions the literal torturing/killing of the dogs. (That I recall.) It's always about dog fighting in general...."the wrong choice"...etc. Participating in this illegal activity is one thing, bad enough. But what he himself literally did to some of the dogs is an atrocity.

But he never talks about that. If I were him, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. It would kill me to think, "My God, how could I KILL dogs like that??? How could I cause that horrific suffering to a poor animal?" Maybe that doesn't cross his mind; seems his only concern is the illegal gambling activity.

:cursing:

[Spyder88]

Thank you for your opinion. The nice thing about message boards is we can agree to disagree.

This is an excerpt from Seeing_Eye's post: "Again, he was apologizing to dog owners, but not to the dogs." I guess you and I interpreted this statement differently...but that's another thing about message boards...it's a matter of interpretation.

I believe in second chances and that includes MV.

Take care and have a nice week! :smile:

Thanks for such good wishes, SPYCEE. :smile:

I'm willing to bet that we'll find some topic we can agree on in the future. :beer:

I hope your optimism is justified, because this is one person I sincerely pray I'm wrong about. If I'm right, more dogs and other innocent, weaker beings are going to suffer at his merciless hands.

[True2Blues]

Vick to Philly students: Resist following crowd
‘My future was promising ... at some point, I got sidetracked,’ Eagle QB says

("sidetracked"??? That's what he calls it??? :glare:)

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32736793/ns/sports-nfl/

Interesting article. What gets me the most about MV is, in all I've read about his comments about his arrest and incarceration, he NEVER EVER mentions the literal torturing/killing of the dogs. (That I recall.) It's always about dog fighting in general...."the wrong choice"...etc. Participating in this illegal activity is one thing, bad enough. But what he himself literally did to some of the dogs is an atrocity.

But he never talks about that. If I were him, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. It would kill me to think, "My God, how could I KILL dogs like that??? How could I cause that horrific suffering to a poor animal?" Maybe that doesn't cross his mind; seems his only concern is the illegal gambling activity.

:cursing:

He wouldn't even tell the FBI about that, why should he bother with students? I've never heard him say anything that wasn't generalization. To this day he minimizes his atrocious actions with nice general words.

He's a complete hypocrite and only makes speeches because it's what he has to do to keep the money, the fame, the place on a team. He feels NOTHING about what he did. Any remorse is for getting caught. There is no empathy, no compassion, no humanity in that creature and there never will be. He was beyond redemption long before he got caught. A person has to want to change, all Vick wants is for things to be the way they were, before he got caught.

[dinojen]

Great article... and great idea... hope he see's lots of dirt. or astro turf.. think of all the dog food that the shelters will get...:thumbsup: Eat dirt Vick...


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Homeless-dogs-will-benefit-every-time-Michael-Vi?urn=nfl,188591

[True2Blues]

Great article... and great idea... hope he see's lots of dirt. or astro turf.. think of all the dog food that the shelters will get...:thumbsup: Eat dirt Vick...


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Homeless-dogs-will-benefit-every-time-Michael-Vi?urn=nfl,188591

That's a great idea! Though, quite frankly, I don't care what happens to Vick when he gets tackled. The harder the hit, the happier I'll be.

[SPYCEE]

Go Vick! imo once a man has paid his dues in prison he is free to pursue his dreams. . no reason for Vick not to have the same advantages.
Oliver North and Gordon Liddy were criminals also, they paid their dues are resumed their lives. Is there a difference?? If so splain it to me.

:beer: Finally a voice of reason. I so totally agree with you. :smile:

[R~O~S]

Go Vick! imo once a man has paid his dues in prison he is free to pursue his dreams. . no reason for Vick not to have the same advantages.
Oliver North and Gordon Liddy were criminals also, they paid their dues are resumed their lives. Is there a difference?? If so splain it to me.


Neither Oliver North nor Gordon Liddy were allowed to return to their previous careers, but took alternative positions which is all anyone is saying MV should do.

Liddy was out of politics and out of the white house, he wrote a book and now he's a radio talk show host.

Oliver North had his convictions overturned due to a limited immunity deal he had made. He was retired from the military once convicted & fired by Reagan. He wrote several very successful books, ran for public office but never won and he hosted a radio program until 2003. He does TV spots from time to time.

[IcyLogic]

[QUOTE=ChocHollyK;13447844]snipped for space & relevance::




I have expressed my personal opinion before and will state it again. It sickens me to see Mr. Vick so readily re-instated into a position of wealth, power, and stature, after serving a criminal sentence.
It also sickens me to think of all the young boys and men who emulate their sports heroes. What does this teach the young fans who want to strive for a career in sports; or even just to participate locally?
It teaches everyone that IF you are talented enough, IF an organization needs you financially to a great enough degree, IF there is enough money, you can do just about anything.

QUOTE]


Again... what exactly would you prefer, that he be rendered cashless, jobless and homeless? He is pursuing the career he is trained and fully capable of carrying out. The fact that it is high profile and well rewarded doesn't justify forcing him to forgo it.

And as far as I can see the lesson our kids will learn is that society punishes anyone who is caught abusing animals.

In fact, the lesson learned here, is whatever the caring parent wants to make it.

[ChocHollyK]

There is absolutely no comparison between what OJ did (and got away with) as versus what MV did (and paid for with his time in prison)...taking nothing away from the gruesome killing of the Pit Bulls.

OJ cold-bloodedly, heinously, murdered two human beings and GOT AWAY WITH MURDER. He left two small innocent children without a mother and another family without their son and brother. The time that OJ is currently spending in prison for kidnapping and robbery does not even begin to pay for a crime he should have gotten the death penalty for.

We will continue to read and hear about the OJ saga...but I'm not sure what you mean by saying MV's story is not yet finished. I'm sure he will be headline news for a long time...but I truly believe he will not repeat his offense or do anything more to send him back to prision. I feel almost certain I can count on that.

At the request of federal authorities before sentencing, MV agreed to deposit nearly $1 million in an escrow account with attorneys for use to reimburse costs of caring for the confiscated dogs, most of which were being offered for adoption on a selective basis under supervision of a court-appointed specialist.

Almost 50 of the dogs have been adopted as versus being put to death by the animal shelters....as would normally be the case because the dogs were trained to fight.

I in no way condone what MV did...but I do believe in giving him a second chance without condemning him forever. JMO





And so we differ in opinion......

[ChocHollyK]

[QUOTE=ChocHollyK;13447844]snipped for space & relevance::




I have expressed my personal opinion before and will state it again. It sickens me to see Mr. Vick so readily re-instated into a position of wealth, power, and stature, after serving a criminal sentence.
It also sickens me to think of all the young boys and men who emulate their sports heroes. What does this teach the young fans who want to strive for a career in sports; or even just to participate locally?
It teaches everyone that IF you are talented enough, IF an organization needs you financially to a great enough degree, IF there is enough money, you can do just about anything.

QUOTE]


Again... what exactly would you prefer, that he be rendered cashless, jobless and homeless? He is pursuing the career he is trained and fully capable of carrying out. The fact that it is high profile and well rewarded doesn't justify forcing him to forgo it.

And as far as I can see the lesson our kids will learn is that society punishes anyone who is caught abusing animals.

In fact, the lesson learned here, is whatever the caring parent wants to make it.

Of course I would not want him rendered cashless and jobless... Homeless, I don't care one way or the other.
I have clearly stated what I prefer; that he not be allowed to return to the NFL in ANY capacity, nor to provide commentary on games, as many ex-players do, but that he be banned from the NFL forever.
What he did is a very telling sign about his lack of compassion and empathy and is sickening to the core.
Law enforcement and psychology continuously and repeatedly inform us that animal cruelty is a pre-cursor to some of the most horrific crimes we have seen. MV practiced animal cruelty in one of its most horrific forms.
There are ways to receive an income outside the NFL, and there are certainly, clearly ways to live on much less income than NFL personnel. I am a strong believer that MV should not be allowed to return to the NFL in any capacity whatsoever, at any time during his lifetime.
Furthermore, he is already crying the blues about his position and his work. Please, please don't tell me he wants any empathy or comfort for feeling 'underutilized'.