Federal Deficit Hits Record High 1.27T

[Freedom1]

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=89651

The federal deficit climbed higher into record territory in July, hitting $1.27 trillion with two months remaining in the budget year.

The Treasury Department says the July deficit totaled $180.7 billion, slightly more than the $177.5 billion economists had expected.

The Obama administration is projecting that when the current budget year ends on Sept. 30, the imbalance will total $1.84 trillion, more than four times last year's record-high.

[theal3]

I guess it's time for the other side to be "surprised" by the borrowing. When Dems complained about the Republican spend and borrow policies, they were called anti American. IMHO, am immune to it anymore, Bush left nothing, so we have to borrow even more, but there's a plan for it now, not just a blank check or openend ATM card.

[Lady_Jean_La]

There is always a plan and broken promises. imo

[theal3]

There is always a plan and broken promises. imo

It's called compromise, that is how legislation is made. No one gets all they want, all the time. One can have goals, ideals, aim high so to speak, then settle for a compromise.

[Jay]

This is why Washington makes me sick to my stomach, thier children and grandchildren are set for life from the taxpayers money they will leave them in thier estates.


I am sure they will make more in one year of "pension" then the average american worker will make in 5.

Bush and all the retired Prez's get an annual pension = to a Cabinet members salary, which, without looking, is about 180 thou/yr.

The rest of the American population is screwed, especially the children. They have no comprehension of what is in store for them, not a clue!

This country will NEVER recover from this, spending will NEVER go down, because of a group of idiots that claim they care about the American people, that makes me sick, they could care less about us.

I am so angry, I am boiling!

[flareon]

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=89651

One keeps wondering when the out of control spending is going to end.

As I have said, using Obama's rosy numbers (think much higher) the country's debt will be over 100% of GDP in the next couple of years. Knowing this, they still continue the wasteful spending.

[flareon]

This is why Washington makes me sick to my stomach, thier children and grandchildren are set for life from the taxpayers money they will leave them in thier estates.


I am sure they will make more in one year of "pension" then the average american worker will make in 5.

Bush and all the retired Prez's get an annual pension = to a Cabinet members salary, which, without looking, is about 180 thou/yr.

The rest of the American population is screwed, especially the children. They have no comprehension of what is in store for them, not a clue!

This country will NEVER recover from this, spending will NEVER go down, because of a group of idiots that claim they care about the American people, that makes me sick, they could care less about us.

I am so angry, I am boiling!

I think you have just put into words what many of us feel.

These people parlay a part time job into a lifetime of benefits and pensions, all the while using their so call connections to further feather their nest.

And you are right. The pain from this will first be felt at the state level and as usual the ones who will be paying the price will not be the ones who garnered the most benefit.

[Lady_Jean_La]

It's called compromise, that is how legislation is made. No one gets all they want, all the time. One can have goals, ideals, aim high so to speak, then settle for a compromise.

Or aim low if you have the votes works too. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

This is why Washington makes me sick to my stomach, thier children and grandchildren are set for life from the taxpayers money they will leave them in thier estates.


I am sure they will make more in one year of "pension" then the average american worker will make in 5.

Bush and all the retired Prez's get an annual pension = to a Cabinet members salary, which, without looking, is about 180 thou/yr.

The rest of the American population is screwed, especially the children. They have no comprehension of what is in store for them, not a clue!

This country will NEVER recover from this, spending will NEVER go down, because of a group of idiots that claim they care about the American people, that makes me sick, they could care less about us.

I am so angry, I am boiling!


Ditto! :scared:

[Patriot]

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=89651

No way, Freedom. It can't possibly be true. Don'tcha know that Bush spent us into oblivion?? The great one is here to fix all that was wrong with the Bush administration and the backwards, ignorant folk who were before him, so there is no way he could be spending even more. Bushdidit Bushdidit Bushdidit Bushdidit Bushdidit Bushdidit Bushdidit Bushdidit Bushdidit. Repeat ad nauseam and stick your head in the sand, then you will be with the program. :thumbup:

[AlohaRainbow]

Most Americans Want Unused Stimulus Money Returned to Taxpayers

With improvements in the economy and only a fraction of the stimulus money having been spent so far, most Americans -- 72 percent -- say returning the unused portion of the $787 billion dollar stimulus to taxpayers would do more to boost the economy than having the government spend it. Majorities of Democrats (59 percent), Republicans (87 percent) and independents (70 percent) think the money should be returned to taxpayers.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/13/fox-news-poll-americans-want-unused-stimulus-money-returned-taxpayers/
----------
an idea that might help with the deficit??

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

This is why Washington makes me sick to my stomach, thier children and grandchildren are set for life from the taxpayers money they will leave them in thier estates.


I am sure they will make more in one year of "pension" then the average american worker will make in 5.

Bush and all the retired Prez's get an annual pension = to a Cabinet members salary, which, without looking, is about 180 thou/yr.

The rest of the American population is screwed, especially the children. They have no comprehension of what is in store for them, not a clue!

This country will NEVER recover from this, spending will NEVER go down, because of a group of idiots that claim they care about the American people, that makes me sick, they could care less about us.

I am so angry, I am boiling!

I nominate thee for post of the year!

[Jay]

I nominate thee for post of the year!



I accept your nomination!! :smile:


If elected I promise... oops, wrong speech!

[Freedom1]

This is why Washington makes me sick to my stomach, thier children and grandchildren are set for life from the taxpayers money they will leave them in thier estates.


I am sure they will make more in one year of "pension" then the average american worker will make in 5.

Bush and all the retired Prez's get an annual pension = to a Cabinet members salary, which, without looking, is about 180 thou/yr.

The rest of the American population is screwed, especially the children. They have no comprehension of what is in store for them, not a clue!

This country will NEVER recover from this, spending will NEVER go down, because of a group of idiots that claim they care about the American people, that makes me sick, they could care less about us.

I am so angry, I am boiling!

Good post Jay! A lot of Americans feels the same way you do. Repulican or Democrat. This spending is out of control.

[Jay]

Good post Jay! A lot of Americans feels the same way you do. Repulican or Democrat. This spending is out of control.


The federal government was "intended" to be a "limited" government when the FF's drew the Constitution up.


Here is a chart of "interest" payments alone on the National debt.


http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm

While this staggering, staggering amount of money is paid simply as interest, the Principal keeps rising and rising, GOODBYE all that money.

This is why the debt keeps growing, no reveune to operate the government AND make obligatory payments to those who own the debt, thus, more borrowing, more debt, more interest.

You don't see any Congressman making $7.35 and hour do you?

Obama gets in and gives away 800 billion. Did we have the money, no, where did we get it, we borrowed it, more debt, more interest.

WE THE PEOPLE is a joke anymore, we are POWERLESS to stop them, yet, as mentioned, they sure get huge salaries, pension's, great health care.

They make me sick!!!

[Doc Holliday]

It's the size of the debt relative to the size of the economy that really matters. The debt to GDP ratio. Debt/GDP. This gives you a sense of what the burden of the debt is.

There are other issues, like investor attitudes/confidence and the inflationary potential resulting from monetizing the debt, but all-in-all, it's the relative size that matters, not the absolute size.

Imagine if our debt was 100 trillion dollars and the interest payment was 5 trillion dollars. You might think that is huge, but if the GDP was 800 trillion, then the Debt/GDP ratio is 12.5%. That is a very light debt burden. 5 trillion a year in interest is nothing for an economy that is 800 trillion in size.

So what's in our future? It's hard to predict, but I guess one report shows the ratio approaching 100% in 2020. But I remember an IMF report that had a more optimistic analysis and they show it falling from a peak of about 80%.

Time will tell. Remember in WWII the ratio got up to almost 120% because of the massive war spending (in other words, the debt burden has been much much higher in the past). And I think I wrote on this board before that I thought there were reasons why it was easier to handle that debt back then - we were in a advantageous competitive position vis-a-vis the rest of the world at the end of WWII.

We aren't in any favorable position now, it seems to me. And what if something bad happens? A supply shock? Pandemic flu, war?

Anything bad happens, and you can throw out those optimistic forecasts for GDP growth. And then the debt/GDP ratio will get worse faster. The burden gets heavier, instead of lighter.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

It's the size of the debt relative to the size of the economy that really matters. The debt to GDP ratio. Debt/GDP. This gives you a sense of what the burden of the debt is.

There are other issues, like investor attitudes/confidence and the inflationary potential resulting from monetizing the debt, but all-in-all, it's the relative size that matters, not the absolute size.

Imagine if our debt was 100 trillion dollars and the interest payment was 5 trillion dollars. You might think that is huge, but if the GDP was 800 trillion, then the Debt/GDP ratio is 12.5%. That is a very light debt burden. 5 trillion a year in interest is nothing for an economy that is 800 trillion in size.

So what's in our future? It's hard to predict, but I guess one report shows the ratio approaching 100% in 2020. But I remember an IMF report that had a more optimistic analysis and they show it falling from a peak of about 80%.

Time will tell. Remember in WWII the ratio got up to almost 120% because of the massive war spending (in other words, the debt burden has been much much higher in the past). And I think I wrote on this board before that I thought there were reasons why it was easier to handle that debt back then - we were in a advantageous competitive position vis-a-vis the rest of the world at the end of WWII.

We aren't in any favorable position now, it seems to me. And what if something bad happens? A supply shock? Pandemic flu, war?

Anything bad happens, and you can throw out those optimistic forecasts for GDP growth. And then the debt/GDP ratio will get worse faster. The burden gets heavier, instead of lighter.

Well thank you Doc for that explanation, I enjoyed reading it very much.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Exploding’ deficit plays into health reform

"It's not good enough that it's just paid for; it actually has to start driving long-term costs down," said Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.), one of nine freshman Democrats who last month urged Senate leaders to pay more attention to controlling federal health spending in this era of "exploding debt and deficits."

"The status quo is going to bankrupt the federal government and bankrupt most American families," Warner said.

( emphasis added)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32413579/ns/politics-washington_post

© 2009 Microsoft MSN Privacy

[Jay]

It's the size of the debt relative to the size of the economy that really matters.

We should not be in debt at all, when Clinton left office there was a surplus of over 200 billion. We were still in debt, sure, as he did not wipe it out, but there was NO annual deficit.

Imagine if our debt was 100 trillion dollars and the interest payment was 5 trillion dollars. You might think that is huge, but if the GDP was 800 trillion, then the Debt/GDP ratio is 12.5%. That is a very light debt burden. 5 trillion a year in interest is nothing for an economy that is 800 trillion in size.



You are equating size of gross revenue with debt, the point is, the interest payment, no matter what it is, is GONE.

[Doc Holliday]

We should not be in debt at all, when Clinton left office there was a surplus of over 200 billion. We were still in debt, sure, as he did not wipe it out, but there was NO annual deficit.

Here: http://zfacts.com/metaPage/lib/National-Debt-GDP-L.gif

That graph says it all. Reagan deficit spending reversed the downward trend. Clinton improved things. Bush/Obama has sent it skyrocketing.

As far as total debt numbers go, we have almost always had debt. http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm

I think debt went to zero once, but I can't find it on that treasury direct site because he uses total debt outstanding and other people insist that only net debt should be used.


You are equating size of gross revenue with debt, the point is, the interest payment, no matter what it is, is GONE.

No, Jay, I'm not equating anything. I am simply pointing out that you can not just look at the debt and pronounce yay or nay. You have to put that debt into context. The context we use is the Debt/GDP ratio. That ratio tells you the burden of debt.

$20,000 in credit card debt would mean a lot to me. The interest payments would kill me. That money is not only GONE, but it HURTS really really bad.

The same credit card balance and interest payments would mean nothing to Bill Gates. Yes, the money is gone, but he would hardly notice it.

The same thing applies at the macro level. 1 trillion dollars in interest hurts more when the size of the economy is 13 trillion than it does when the economy is 130 trillion.

[Doc Holliday]

I think debt went to zero once, but I can't find it on that treasury direct site because he uses total debt outstanding and other people insist that only net debt should be used.


On the other hand, I'm not sure there would be a big difference between the two back in the early 1800's and 1700's.

I'm sure it went to zero a few times, but I can't find it on that TreasuryDirect site.

Sorry, Jay, my mind is mush right now and I can't figure it out.

[LisaM22]

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=89651

because this administration included the cost of the war, the last administration hid that cost, it was still spent just the same though

[LisaM22]

as the last 8 years show, republicans do not mind spending trillions and trillions, they just hate spending anything on the people of this country

[LisaM22]

Right because the last 8 years there was no medaid, medicare, S-chip, prescription part D, welfare, WIC, social security or anything like that paid for with tax dollars from republicans. :rolleyes:

And it didn't become trillions and trillions until your dear, but feckless leader got the checkbook.

what did bush spend the trillions and trillions on, he double our debt, how did he spend more then any other president in the history of this planet? yet leave our country in such economic shambles? he gave to the rich and stole from the poor, and everyone was harmed, even the rich

[LisaM22]

No, Bush just spent more than Clinton....YOUR dear president has spent more than ALL the previous presidents...COMBINED. And yet unemployment continues to climb...foreclosures continue to take place, businesses continue to close, people and companies continue to file for bankruptcy, banks continue to be shut down, countries countinue to build nuclear weapons and threaten us.....

Feckless....the most descriptive word ever created to discribe Barack Obama.

IMO

no, get your facts straight, bush spent more then any other president on this planet, doubled our debt and what did the people get for all that money? - and really even the cost of cleaning up Bush's mess falls on Bush, but we will take it, you can blame it on us if it make you feel better about your party

[LisaM22]

Sorry dear, YOU are the one who needs to learn the facts

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/

The truth is a painful, painful thing.

you can't claim money that hasn't been spent yet - lol, silly you, most of the money spent to date is cleaning up Bush's mess, now health care will be all on the Obama administration, good or bad, if it passes, if republicans kill it, our health care problem is all on them

[Jay]

On the other hand, I'm not sure there would be a big difference between the two back in the early 1800's and 1700's.

I'm sure it went to zero a few times, but I can't find it on that TreasuryDirect site.

Sorry, Jay, my mind is mush right now and I can't figure it out.


I saw a chart once, can't find it now, where yes, the deficit was zero for that fiscal year or the national debt was zero? This was back around 1870??

I also saw a chart once in what year the Federal budget topped 1 billion $. If I remeber correctly, it was around the turn of the century?

[Doc Holliday]

I saw a chart once, can't find it now, where yes, the deficit was zero for that fiscal year or the national debt was zero? This was back around 1870??

I also saw a chart once in what year the Federal budget topped 1 billion $. If I remeber correctly, it was around the turn of the century?


I'm sure the deficit has been zero many times. Remember, deficit is the flow, debt is the stock. Anytime you run a budget surplus, or balance the budget, then the deficit is by definition 'zero'.

But even if you run a surplus, if you do something else with the extra money, like hand out bonuses or something, then the debt doesn't decrease.

Anyway, Jay, I found it: THE ELIMINATION OF THE NATIONAL DEBT IN 1835
AND THE MEANING OF JACKSONIAN DEMOCRACY (http://www.business.auburn.edu/~whittdo/THE%20ELIMINATION%20OF%20THE%20NATIONAL%20DEBT%20I N%201835.htm)

On January 1, 1835, the United States paid off entirely its longstanding public debt. For that year and the next the nation enjoyed debt-freedom, the only two years in its entire history when it held no obligation to creditors.

The Treasury Direct site lists national debt of just over $30,000 for each year. I know he adds intragovernmental holdings to 'debt held by public' to come up with total national debt outstanding, but 'intragovernmental holdings' in 1835 doesn't really make sense to me, because I thought it had something to do with social security. So, I don't really know why he lists debt in 1835 and 1836.