8/12 thru 8/16

[Firehead11]

Coldwater, I don't know if this is ok or not. But I thought I would start the new thread.

[Firehead11]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1205931/Michael-Jacksons-secret-son-joins-Prince-Blanket-shopping-trip.html#ixzz0Nxy67XMu

There may be conflicting opinions over whether Omer Bhatti really is Michael Jackson's secret fourth child, but he certainly looked like part of the family as he enjoyed a shopping trip with the singer's other sons in Santa Monica yesterday.
The 25-year-old dancer, who was dressed in a bright yellow T-shirt, jeans, hi-top Nike trainers and a baseball cap, joined Prince Michael, 12, and long-haired Blanket, seven, on a trip to a book store.

With another friend and minder in tow, the group looked in good spirits as they headed home after their outing.
Prince Michael and Blanket were free of the masks their father always insisted they wore on public outings and both were dressed like average boys in shorts and T-shirts.

[flipflop]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1205931/Michael-Jacksons-secret-son-joins-Prince-Blanket-shopping-trip.html#ixzz0Nxy67XMu

There may be conflicting opinions over whether Omer Bhatti really is Michael Jackson's secret fourth child, but he certainly looked like part of the family as he enjoyed a shopping trip with the singer's other sons in Santa Monica yesterday.
The 25-year-old dancer, who was dressed in a bright yellow T-shirt, jeans, hi-top Nike trainers and a baseball cap, joined Prince Michael, 12, and long-haired Blanket, seven, on a trip to a book store.

With another friend and minder in tow, the group looked in good spirits as they headed home after their outing.
Prince Michael and Blanket were free of the masks their father always insisted they wore on public outings and both were dressed like average boys in shorts and T-shirts.

I think Omer looks a lot like Michael.

Thanks for starting the new thread. :smile:

[tiptop]

I dont recall Blanket's hair being that long at the memorial. Did I miss it? It looked shoulder length to me.

[who_is_it]

The now emerged alleged son Omar Bhatti was mentioned by former housekeeper Kiki Fournier in her testimony. She told there were always many, many children on Neverland and was asked if some of the invited families were closer to Michael Jackson than others.

"And would you agree, like most people, Mr. Jackson became a closer friend of some families rather than others, correct?"
source: page 2607, testimony Fournier

One of the names later dropped was Omar Bhatti.
source: page 2542, testimony Fournier

[flipflop]

I dont recall Blanket's hair being that long at the memorial. Did I miss it? It looked shoulder length to me.

Here is a picture but I think his hair might be pushed behind his shoulders.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IPSOmRdlS0Q/SlR5JXr0RxI/AAAAAAAAB7k/bpTtVkAdG58/s400/2009+prince+michael+II+blanket+jackson+pics+photos +memorial+funeral.jpg

[tiptop]

Here is a picture but I think his hair might be pushed behind his shoulders.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IPSOmRdlS0Q/SlR5JXr0RxI/AAAAAAAAB7k/bpTtVkAdG58/s400/2009+prince+michael+II+blanket+jackson+pics+photos +memorial+funeral.jpg


I think you're right! He's such a beautiful little boy IMO. Thanks for the link.

[retiredcop]

Well, a new day has dawned. I haven't seen much news on TV about the case anymore. Seems to be dropping out of the news for now. I think it may be a long time before the autopsy results are released.

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

Well, a new day has dawned. I haven't seen much news on TV about the case anymore. Seems to be dropping out of the news for now. I think it may be a long time before the autopsy results are released.

in my opinion

I am happy about that. Let LE do their investigation, files charges if need be and then maybe let us know the results.

[giraffe]

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/a170980/michael-jackson-tribute-date-announced.html

Jermaine Jackson's all-star birthday tribute for brother Michael will go ahead on September 26, organisers say.

The 54-year-old has partnered with US chatshow host Larry King's wife Shawn to organise the event, the New York Post reports.

The pair had intended to televise the memorial on August 25 in Vienna for a crowd of 250,000, but apparently did not have time to organise the celebration.

"We wanted to make sure that everyone [who] wanted to be there could be there," Shawn explained on her husband's CNN show.

Organisers have now confirmed that the concert will take place at Vienna's Schoenbrunn Palace on September 26. According to a publicist for Shawn, Whitney Houston, Usher, and Lionel Richie have confirmed that they will perform at the bash.

However, a spokesperson for Houston denied that the singer has committed to appear, while a White House source has refuted claims on the original promotional material that President Barack Obama was 'a confirmed talent'.

World Awards producer Georg Kindel, who is also part of the project, has hinted that Madonna will be on hand for the proceedings, but her rep Liz Rosenberg said: "It's not true. She's still on tour."

[Unperson1984]

President Obama? Do they seriously believe the POTUS would fly to Europe and appear at a concert? After the letters Members of Congress received disapproving the moment of silence, most all politicians stopped talking about honoring MJ.

IMO

[Cindylee]

President Obama? Do they seriously believe the POTUS would fly to Europe and appear at a concert? After the letters Members of Congress received disapproving the moment of silence, most all politicians stopped talking about honoring MJ.

IMO

Yes, can you imagine the outrage if he were to actually go? :ohmy:

[Unperson1984]

Yes, can you imagine the outrage if he were to actually go? :ohmy:

On many levels.

[Unperson1984]

It looks to me like Mark Lester is the sperm donor.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1205288/Is-Mark-Lester-father-Michael-Jacksons-daughter-Paris.html

I don't think so. Paris has dark hair, both Lester and Rowe have light hair. I think the light blue eyes came from Rowe.
IMO

[GentleBreeze]

Michael and his children were going to live at Rod Stewart's mansion while he did the 02 tour.

http://entertainment.stv.tv/showbiz/81600-michael-jackson-moves-to-rods/

Michael Jackson is planning to live in Rod Stewart's English mansion when he plays his 'This Is It' residency in London this summer.

A source said: "It's going to be perfect for Michael and his kids."

It has also been revealed Jackson - who has three children, son Prince Michael, 10, daughter Paris, nine, and five-year-old son Prince Michael II - will be releasing new music ahead of his shows.

Concert promoter Randy Phillips said: "There will be a new Michael Jackson single before the first date.

"Michael has got some new music and he is looking for a new way of disseminating his material to his fans."

The singer - who has not performed a full-length concert since 2001 - is also said to be planning some spectacular visual effects, including a complicated trick that will see him floating across the stage.

Phillips explained: "He wants to use some technical effects that have never been seen before."

Jackson's arrival in Britain will also be memorable - he has reportedly hired the £5,000-an-hour Challenger 604 plane that featured in the last James Bond film 'Quantum of Solace'.

imo

[retiredcop]

Michael and his children were going to live at Rod Stewart's mansion while he did the 02 tour.

http://entertainment.stv.tv/showbiz/81600-michael-jackson-moves-to-rods/

Michael Jackson is planning to live in Rod Stewart's English mansion when he plays his 'This Is It' residency in London this summer.

A source said: "It's going to be perfect for Michael and his kids."

It has also been revealed Jackson - who has three children, son Prince Michael, 10, daughter Paris, nine, and five-year-old son Prince Michael II - will be releasing new music ahead of his shows.

Concert promoter Randy Phillips said: "There will be a new Michael Jackson single before the first date.

"Michael has got some new music and he is looking for a new way of disseminating his material to his fans."

The singer - who has not performed a full-length concert since 2001 - is also said to be planning some spectacular visual effects, including a complicated trick that will see him floating across the stage.

Phillips explained: "He wants to use some technical effects that have never been seen before."

Jackson's arrival in Britain will also be memorable - he has reportedly hired the £5,000-an-hour Challenger 604 plane that featured in the last James Bond film 'Quantum of Solace'.

imo.

Just guessing, but I don't think this is happening anymore.:confused:

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

.

Just guessing, but I don't think this is happening anymore.:confused:

in my opinion

Sadly, no it isn't but it shows the Michael Jackson family were looking forward to their stay in the UK. I would have loved to see his child or children perform with their famous father.

The children would have loved this mansion and all the acreage around it. Maybe one day they will go there on their own.:smile:

imo

[Firehead11]

Good afternoon all ...

The Official Michael Jackson Opus will feature photos, essays and poetry, all bound in leather.

By Elysa Gardner, USA TODAY

The first new book about Michael Jackson sanctioned by his estate will be published Dec. 7, and it promises to be as razzle-dazzling as the late pop icon himself.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2009-08-11-jackson-opus_N.htm?csp=34


That might be something I order. As of now I have like 7 different magazines.

[who_is_it]

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/showbiz/a170980/michael-jackson-tribute-date-announced.html

Jermaine Jackson's all-star birthday tribute for brother Michael will go ahead on September 26, organisers say.

The 54-year-old has partnered with US chatshow host Larry King's wife Shawn to organise the event, the New York Post reports.

<snipped for length>


I've read this before and shortly thought to go there because it's so close to my own country. But I've changed my mind. I wanted to see Michael Jackson in London -- not any other performers who cash in with his death.

I keep it with Madonna. An impersonator performed during her show. She interrupted and said: "Let's give it up!" That was a quite smart move of her imo: A tribute followed by the words that no other artist dances as good as Michael.

[BOZGAL2]

Good afternoon all ...

The Official Michael Jackson Opus will feature photos, essays and poetry, all bound in leather.

By Elysa Gardner, USA TODAY

The first new book about Michael Jackson sanctioned by his estate will be published Dec. 7, and it promises to be as razzle-dazzling as the late pop icon himself.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2009-08-11-jackson-opus_N.htm?csp=34

TFS
I will be all over this one.
A great XMAS gift for a true MJ fan. :wink:

[daniel green]

[url]

However, a spokesperson for Houston denied that the singer has committed to appear, while a White House source has refuted claims on the original promotional material that President Barack Obama was 'a confirmed talent'.

snipped."

Yeah, right, the President is a confirmed talent.

Who are these ppl kidding?

How insulting.

[daniel green]

It looks to me like Mark Lester is the sperm donor.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1205288/Is-Mark-Lester-father-Michael-Jacksons-daughter-Paris.html

The two girls look remarkably the same. Say, like sisters.

[daniel green]

I would have loved to see his child or children perform with their famous father.
snipped

That would have been appalling, really, given MJ's alleged lost childhood doing the same thing.

[BOZGAL2]

It looks to me like Mark Lester is the sperm donor.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1205288/Is-Mark-Lester-father-Michael-Jacksons-daughter-Paris.html

This is old tabloid fodder.
I do not believe a word they print or say. JMO

But they do feed a hungry audience so to speak. JMO

[daniel green]

I am almost finished with the MJ bio I am reading. I had no idea about the history of JC with MJ. :cursing: I am just disgusted and disturbed.

I did find it ironic that JC had conscious sedation while having dental work.

[who_is_it]

That would have been appalling, really, given MJ's alleged lost childhood doing the same thing.

I disagree. Firstly Prince is 12 years old (not 5 years like Michael at the beginning of his childstar career was), secondly only 1 duet was planned (according to rumors in the press).

I can't imagine Michael would have forced Prince to perform something; my impression was that the children were interested in their father's career.

[who_is_it]

I am almost finished with the MJ bio I am reading. I had no idea about the history of JC with MJ. :cursing: I am just disgusted and disturbed.

I did find it ironic that JC had conscious sedation while having dental work.

There's another book which is about how Michael Jackson was extorted, written by LF's former secretary Geraldine Hughes: "Redemption". I've ordered it.

[daniel green]

And two weeks ago, investigators searched Murray's home and office using a warrant that cited probable cause to believe the searches would uncover evidence of excessive prescribing, prescribing to an addict, or prescribing to or treating an addict, according to warrants given to CNN by Las Vegas affiliate KTNV.

Former prosecutor Paul Callan, who's also defended anesthesiologists in medical malpractice cases, sat down with John Roberts and Kiran Chetry on CNN's "American Morning" on Wednesday to talk about what could be going on with the Los Angeles Police Department's investigation.

The following is an edited version of the interview.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/08/12/jackson.pharmacy.doctor/

[daniel green]

There's another book which is about the extortion of Michael Jackson, snipped.

Oh heavens, no. There was no extortion. I just had no idea what was in the interviews and medical records, etc, by and for JC.

[daniel green]

Callan: I've never seen a case involving criminal conduct. You know, it's interesting. I've represented three anesthesiologists this week in cases involving propofol.

CNN: Really?

Callan: Defended them at depositions. But it's routinely used. It's used during colonoscopies ...

CNN: It's one of those malpractice cases?

Callan: They're malpractice cases. They're cases where something goes wrong during the procedure and somebody dies. No one would even think about bringing a case against an anesthesiologist where an accident occurs in the operating room. But you see here, the claim is that Murray was hired at great expense and cost to the Jackson estate to prescribe drugs to him, and that Murray should've known that these drugs would kill Jackson.

CNN: Does he have an out here in terms of defending himself because propofol is not a controlled substance?

Callan: I don't think that will help him, ultimately. You have to remember, a drug being listed as a controlled substance just means that the federal government monitors dispensing of the drug a lot more carefully. But here, in terms of proving gross recklessness, even a non-controlled substance could be used in a grossly reckless way leading to criminal conduct. A little bit harder, but it can be done.

CNN: What about the pharmacy? If he was coming in and saying, "here are my prescriptions," and the pharmacy was just dispensing the drug, that's one thing. But if the pharmacy was complicit at all in prescribing this drug to him, could the pharmacy face charges?

Callan: It's a very hard case against the pharmacy, because they always have the excuse, "Hey, a doctor prescribed this; it's not our job to second-guess a doctor's judgment." And after all, the pharmacy doesn't know where the propofol is being administered, so unless they're on the take or there's bribery or something going on in the background, it's a very hard case against the pharmacy. I think the case will stay on Dr. Murray

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/08/12/jackson.pharmacy.doctor/

[Roxxanne]

I disagree. Firstly Prince is 12 years old (not 5 years like Michael at the beginning of his childstar career was), secondly only 1 duet was planned (according to rumors in the press).

I can't imagine Michael would have forced Prince to perform something; my impression was that the children were interested in their father's career.

Bolding what I'm addressing. Although I do agree with the whole post, I absolutely agree 100% with what I bolded. MO

[daniel green]

Well, a new day has dawned. I haven't seen much news on TV about the case anymore. Seems to be dropping out of the news for now. I think it may be a long time before the autopsy results are released.

in my opinion

No idea when the autopsy reports will be released. But even TMZ doesn't have "news" about it anymore.

The American public complained loud and hard about the saturation of MJ coverage and it quickly left the regular news and cable news and only Geraldo, NG and LKL gave it coverage, and they are not news shows.

[ScoobyDoo]

Oh heavens, no. There was no extortion. I just had no idea what was in the interviews and medical records, etc, by and for JC.

The book I'm reading tells all about the extortion, mostly by the Arvizo family.

[Firehead11]

I am almost finished with the MJ bio I am reading. I had no idea about the history of JC with MJ. :cursing: I am just disgusted and disturbed.

I did find it ironic that JC had conscious sedation while having dental work.

Then I would take it up with JC father since he is the one that ORDERED it.

[daniel green]

Why would I take it up with anyone? :confused:

I just found it a coincidence.

[Firehead11]

Why would I take it up with anyone? :confused:

I just found it a coincidence.


Oh why is that? Does the coincidence disgust and disturb you? Why?

Maybe you should find out a little more about the drug JC's father used on his own son.

IIRC there were some questions about how a person can be given false memory while being given this drug.

But this is really a topic that is not suppose to be discussed on this thread. So I will drop it.

[Roxxanne]

No idea when the autopsy reports will be released. But even TMZ doesn't have "news" about it anymore.

The American public complained loud and hard about the saturation of MJ coverage and it quickly left the regular news and cable news and only Geraldo, NG and LKL gave it coverage, and they are not news shows.

Really? I thought TMZ was all about it yesterday.

[daniel green]

Oh why is that? Does the coincidence disgust and disturb you? Why?

snipped.

No it neither disturbs or disgusts me.

I found it a coincidence is all.

BTW, it was a standard mixture of Robinul and Vistaril, used in dental practices.

What I find disturbing and disgusting are the facts of the case and all of the adults involved.

[who_is_it]

Oh heavens, no. There was no extortion. I just had no idea what was in the interviews and medical records, etc, by and for JC.

Yet I haven't got the ordered book which is shipped from the US to Europe. Can't tell something about the content of the book yet; just heard it's about how Michael Jackson was extorted.

May I ask: Which book did you read?

[who_is_it]

The book I'm reading tells all about the extortion, mostly by the Arvizo family.

Then you probably read the Ian Halperin book!?

The one I've ordered is about the 1993 thing.

[who_is_it]

I've read it.

IMO It's very poorly written and IMO by a huge fan with a agenda. IMO it just didn't jive with the actual legal documents & Bates stamped dates that were available.

Hhhmmm..., I will see. I personally don't mind if it's poorly written because English isn't my native language. I couldn't read James Joyce in English. :D

[who_is_it]

Really? I thought TMZ was all about it yesterday.

Michael Jackson articles on TMZ still have many more comments than articles about other celebrities. I conclude many people are interested.

[daniel green]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090811/ap_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_burial_8

On the certificate recording Jackson's June 25 death, the entertainer's body is listed as being at Los Angeles' Forest Lawn Memorial Park, but that location is listed as temporary, and no amended death certificate has been filed with Los Angeles County.

So, as the AP reported yesterday, he has not been buried yet.

[daniel green]

Michael Jackson's father said he supports building a shrine to the pop star along the lines of Neverland Ranch in Las Vegas, where Jackson lived for several years. Joe Jackson told E! that his son has not yet been buried but that he would like to see Jackson memorialized in Las Vegas with some sort of facility like Neverland, Jackson's compound in Santa Barbara County. "I think Vegas would be great," Joe Jackson said. "The fans would come." It remains unclear how much of a voice Joe Jackson, who was estranged from Michael Jackson for many years, will have in the creation of a memorial. There have been reports circulating that some in the Jackson camp would like to literally move parts of Neverland to Las Vegas and turn it into a Graceland-style attraction. More than a month after the death of Jackson, his family still hasn't decided where to bury the pop star.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/08/michael-jacksons-father-wants-shrine-for-pop-star-in-las-vegas.html

Why does Joe Jackson not get that his son never went back to NL and did not want to return there???????

And trying to entertain fans using his son, even in death? I find that just appalling.

[flipflop]

Isn't it amazing how people see images so differently? They look nothing alike IMO. The eye shape is different, the nose, the lips and the color. JMO

I don't think they look alike either. I also thought the same thing about the features you mention.

[Cindylee]

My 22 yr old son had surgery today, and the anesthesiolgist came in to tell us about how he was going to put him under, he said, " I am going to give you some medicine to put you to sleep," and I said, "Propofol?" And he looked at me really shocked, and I held up the people magazine I had been reading and held it up, and said "Michael Jackson". He laughed. It was kind of funny. :laugh:

[daniel green]

Don't know -- but the location does not have to be made public. JMO

No amended death certificate has been filed with Los Angeles County.

[Cindylee]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/08/michael-jacksons-father-wants-shrine-for-pop-star-in-las-vegas.html

Why does Joe Jackson not get that his son never went back to NL and did not want to return there???????

And trying to entertain fans using his son, even in death? I find that just appalling.


Of course Joe would think it was a great idea. Cha Ching...

[daniel green]

My 22 yr old son had surgery today, and the anesthesiolgist came in to tell us about how he was going to put him under, he said, " I am going to give you some medicine to put you to sleep," and I said, "Propofol?" And he looked at me really shocked, and I held up the people magazine I had been reading and held it up, and said "Michael Jackson". He laughed. It was kind of funny. :laugh:

Pretty funny! Hope he is doing well, Cindy.

I have to have my stupid MCL cleaned up again (what a summer with this stupid ligament) and the doc explained the orthroscopic surgery for me to sign the releases and glossed over the sedation. I asked the same thing. Prophol?????? :w00t: He assured me not.

[Cindylee]

Pretty funny! Hope he is doing well, Cindy.

I have to have my stupid MCL cleaned up again (what a summer with this stupid ligament) and the doc explained the orthroscopic surgery for me to sign the releases and glossed over the sedation. I asked the same thing. Prophol?????? :w00t: He assured me not.

He is doing well thank you. Sorry about your leg. And, actually it was propofol that he was using. He assured my son that he would have a tube in to breath for him. :wink:

[Cindylee]

I have contacted numerous pharmacies and asked if they stocked Propofol or Diprivan. Of the ten I contacted they said that the only pharmacies that stock it is the hospital pharmacies. Other than that it has to be ordered from a pharmaceutical warehouse by authorized clinics such as dental and cosmetic surgery suites etc.

No, I don't think that the pharmacy can face charges since it most likely wasn't purchased from one. It was reported earlier here that Dr Murray purchased the propofol illegally. Would that surprise anyone???

Good sluthing. That sounds like what we heard in the begining.

[BOZGAL2]

And why would it have to be amended? It says Forest Lawn Cemetary - temporary -- it won't be amended until the Coroner lists the cause of death and regardless the location does NOT have to be made public nor changed on the death certificate as the body is there whether it is permanent or temporary unless it is moved. :confused:

Exactly correct.

[daniel green]

The document will be changed and filed once he is actually buried. snipped

Yep. That's correct.

[GentleBreeze]

No idea when the autopsy reports will be released. But even TMZ doesn't have "news" about it anymore.

The American public complained loud and hard about the saturation of MJ coverage and it quickly left the regular news and cable news and only Geraldo, NG and LKL gave it coverage, and they are not news shows.

And HLN throughout the day.

How many viewers do all these cable network channels have total?

I have heard about the Propoval being bought by Murray from the pharmacy on every major cable news channel today. Also heard about the tribute to MJ too.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

There is no time frame in which a death certificate has to be amended:


http://ww2.cdph.ca.gov/certlic/birthdeathmar/Documents/Affidavit%20-%20Death%20PAMPHLET%20(10-08)%20MERGED20.pdf

Thank you, that is what I thought.

imo

[tiptop]

IMO The coroner has completed and made any changes to the death certificate. The document will be changed and filed once he is actually buried. He's not buried. IMO

In my state, a death certificate indicating PENDING for the COD can be filed allowing for certain things like official social security notification to begin. Once the COD has been determined, an amendment is added to the original certificate. Some people are long buried before autopsy results are completed. The state vitals registrar's signature makes it an official filed document, signing after both the funeral home director and the doctor who pronounced the person dead.

[daniel green]

Michael Jackson's father, Joe, has dismissed reports the superstar was secretly buried in Los Angeles last week. Reports over the weekend claimed the Jackson family held a private burial on Thursday and laid the singer to rest at the Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Los Angeles' Hollywood Hills. The news coincided with reports that Jackson's brain, which was removed as part of the investigation into his death, was returned to the family by coroners. However, Joe Jackson insists the family has still yet to decide on a resting place for the "Thriller" icon, some seven weeks after his death in June, according to E! Online. The family has been dogged by rumors of a disagreement over the King of Pop's remains, with his mother, Katherine, reportedly asking for her son to be interred at Forest Lawn and his brother Jermaine pushing for a burial at Jackson's Neverland Ranch in Santa Barbara, Calif.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=45410#ixzz0O0zs9kSk

[daniel green]

LQ--could you post the link to the articles, pls?

[GentleBreeze]

This one I will believe since stated by a direct family member. Thank you.

I still stick by my opinion however that the death certificate does not have to be amended right away unless the burial site changes from Forest Lawn.

If Katherine came out and said it I would but not Joe. I dont believe a word that man has to say.

imo

[who_is_it]

Dr. Conrad Murray's Latest Baby Mama

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/12/dr-conrad-murrays-latest-baby-mama-michael-jackson-nicole-alvarez/

[who_is_it]

I have contacted numerous pharmacies and asked if they stocked Propofol or Diprivan. Of the ten I contacted they said that the only pharmacies that stock it is the hospital pharmacies. Other than that it has to be ordered from a pharmaceutical warehouse by authorized clinics such as dental and cosmetic surgery suites etc.

No, I don't think that the pharmacy can face charges since it most likely wasn't purchased from one. It was reported earlier here that Dr Murray purchased the propofol illegally. Would that surprise anyone???

Thanx for your effort to inquire and share this interesting information at the board.

[daniel green]

Arthoroscopic knee surgery is generally not done with general anesthesia as in Propofol but a local anesthetic and is an outpatient procedure.

snipped.

Why thank you! Goodness, had I just googled instead of having a physican do surgeries nos 5 and 6 and a meniscus transplant, I would know all about it. :rolleyes:

[daniel green]

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/08/77465/

[Cindylee]

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/08/77465/

DD failed to explain how it is easier to get than first thought. :huh:

[daniel green]

Applied Pharmacy on Flamingo Road in Las Vegas sold the anesthetic propofol to Dr. Conrad Murray, Jackson's doctor, a source familiar with the investigation said.

The warrants, signed by District Judge Timothy Williams and given to CNN by Las Vegas affiliate KTNV, say that "there is probable cause to believe" that the searches would uncover evidence at Murray's home and office of excessive prescribing, prescribing to an addict, prescribing to or treating an addict and manslaughter.

They cite "probable cause to believe" that the premises contained "records, shipping orders, distribution lists, use records relating to the purchase, transfer ordering, delivery and storage of propofol (Diprivan)."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/08/11/jackson.search/index.html?eref=ib_topstories

[Cindylee]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/08/11/jackson.search/index.html?eref=ib_topstories

I wonder if the people in his office that may have shipped something would also be in trouble???

[flipflop]

The Michael Jackson Paternity Scandal?Who Is The New Mystery Woman In The Michael Jackson Paternity Scandal?
Bookmark and Share
Posted on Aug 12, 2009 @ 09:02AM
print it send it
Random Things
WENN

A new woman’s name has surfaced the Michael Jackson paternity saga -- and like Billie Jean, she was not his lover.

Rather, a Mexican nurse named Helena was handpicked by the late King of Pop to act as surrogate mother to the late entertainer's 7-year-old boy, Blanket, the Daily Mirror reported Wednesday.

Blanket was conceived, according to the Web site, via IVF, using King of Pop's sperm. The child was born February 21, 2002 at the Sharp Grossmont Hospital in La Mesa, California; on his birth certificate, Jackson is listed as the father, while the mother’s name is left blank.

The Thriller singer's third son was born to Helena, a friend told the Web site, because the mother of his first two kids, Debbie Rowe, had health problems that interfered with any more pregnancies, sending Jackson on a hunt for his next surrogate mother. He reportedly paid the woman $20,000 for her services, and gave her an expense account and a staff of servants, at one point.

“He chose Helena because she had a Latino background but she was also a US citizen and had quite fair skin," a friend of Jackson’s told the Web site. “He liked her because she was very attractive and seemed stable and intelligent. She was a nurse or medical assistant, which he also liked.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/08/who-new-mystery-woman-michael-jackson-paternity-scandal


Please, someone let me know if this has been posted. I looked and didn't see it. I can go look again, though.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.theinsider.com/news/2685155_The_Lost_Girl_of_Neverland_Spills_Michael_ Jackson_Secrets

Video Included

Meet Nisha Kataria, who tells "The Insider": "I was the last kid to ever live at Neverland with Michael Jackson."

Nisha tells us she met Michael when she was 17. She says the King of Pop gave her a private singing audition and was impressed with what he heard.

"The first thing he said was, 'You have the voice of an angel, and not a lot of people could do what you just did.'"

She became Michael's secret prodigy, and says she was even set to be an opening act for two or three of his comeback shows.

[Unperson1984]

Does anyone think it likely that Prince Michael and Paris have different fathers? I happened to see a 1999 picture of them both sitting on MJ's knees and was struck by how little they look like each other.

[who_is_it]

Jackson Earnings Grow by Millions After Death

(...) "He has already earned $100 million through a film deal and various merchandising contracts, and the executors expect another $100 million to roll in by the end of the year."

(...) "More recently, Mrs. Jackson and her legal team have sought, in behind-the-scenes negotiations, to have her named as an additional executor or as a co-trustee, a move that Mr. Branca and Mr. McClain have resisted, partly because they say that having a beneficiary also serve as a trustee could result in more taxes being owed.

Instead, a more likely possibility is that another member of the Jackson family would be named as a co-executor or co-trustee, according to Mr. Branca."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/business/media/13jackson.html

[who_is_it]

Does anyone think it likely that Prince Michael and Paris have different fathers? I happened to see a 1999 picture of them both sitting on MJ's knees and was struck by how little they look like each other.

I have no idea who the kids' biological father(s) is / are. I think there's something about Klein due to his strange remarks and behavior what the kids are concerned.

Prince looks a bit like Italian, Blanket a bit Peruvian imo.

[who_is_it]

http://www.theinsider.com/news/2685155_The_Lost_Girl_of_Neverland_Spills_Michael_ Jackson_Secrets

Video Included

Meet Nisha Kataria, who tells "The Insider": "I was the last kid to ever live at Neverland with Michael Jackson."

Nisha tells us she met Michael when she was 17. She says the King of Pop gave her a private singing audition and was impressed with what he heard.

"The first thing he said was, 'You have the voice of an angel, and not a lot of people could do what you just did.'"

She became Michael's secret prodigy, and says she was even set to be an opening act for two or three of his comeback shows.

I've seen this posted by you before on the links thread. Very sweet report imo.

I often ask myself: What if Michael had survived just a little bit longer? Could he have felt to be loved again by an audience? Would have the media robbed him of any fair chance of his comeback? Or would have his drug problem increased in a way that he would have messed up all he had worked for so hard before?

[who_is_it]

Jackson family lawyer backs Lester

"Jackson family lawyer Brian Oxman has backed Mark Lester after the former child star opened up about the possibility he fathered Michael Jackson's daughter Paris."
(...)
"He tells British morning show "GMTV," "Mark Lester is a very straight shooter, an honest man and when he describes the process by which he was asked to make a donation of sperm, I believe every word he says. Michael Jackson always told me he was the biological father so you have on one hand Mark saying he might be and Michael saying he might be -- so you have the question who the daddy is.
"Mark always told the truth and I believe he is telling us straight right now.""

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/dailydish/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=45257

[daniel green]

Does anyone think it likely that Prince Michael and Paris have different fathers? I happened to see a 1999 picture of them both sitting on MJ's knees and was struck by how little they look like each other.

They really do not look biologically related, do they?

[who_is_it]

Michael Jackson fans flock to see Egyptian model 'lookalike'

"Michael Jackson fans are flocking to a Chicago museum to see a 3,000 year old Egyptian model which looks remarkably like the late king of pop"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/6014942/Michael-Jackson-fans-flock-to-see-Egyptian-model-lookalike.html

[Unperson1984]

They really do not look biologically related, do they?

Different in every way, coloring, ears, noses, eye shape...

It makes me wonder if Rowe is their mother. I would expect some common traits if they share the same biological mother.

:confused:

[aproudmom]

sorry if already posted just got on..been taken care of my preg lil sister her sugar dropped and had to call EMT scared the holy crap out of me Geezzzzzzzzzz 7 more months:sleep:

Hudson Surprises With Birth Of First Child

There had been much speculation concerning her condition after the singer showed off a rounded bump when she performed at Michael Jackson's memorial concert.

The new arrival comes after tragic year for the American Idol star, who is said to be "ecstatic" about the arrival of her "beautiful and perfect" baby boy.:thumbsup:

[aproudmom]

Different in every way, coloring, ears, noses, eye shape...

It makes me wonder if Rowe is their mother. I would expect some common traits if they share the same biological mother.

:confused:

who Paris and Prince I think they look very much alike there eyes..and when younger they really did.. they do not look like DR but I am sure they are hers..

[aproudmom]

Jackson family lawyer backs Lester

"Jackson family lawyer Brian Oxman has backed Mark Lester after the former child star opened up about the possibility he fathered Michael Jackson's daughter Paris."
(...)
"He tells British morning show "GMTV," "Mark Lester is a very straight shooter, an honest man and when he describes the process by which he was asked to make a donation of sperm, I believe every word he says. Michael Jackson always told me he was the biological father so you have on one hand Mark saying he might be and Michael saying he might be -- so you have the question who the daddy is.
"Mark always told the truth and I believe he is telling us straight right now.""

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/dailydish/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=45257

wait I read he never said he was so guess that was not true?ugh

[aproudmom]

Maybe Michael Jackson's fans know more than we do. LOL

Michael Jackson buried in unmarked grave at Forest Lawn to prevent grave from being defaced

11 August 2009 02:07

Michael Jackson has finally been buried in an unmarked plot at a Los Angeles cemetery, according to reports.

The singer’s body is thought to be at Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Holly-wood, near the grave of his grandmother Martha Bridges, who died in 1990.

The quiet funeral was in stark contrast to last month’s star-studded memorial service. Jackson’s family have kept the plot’s location a secret.

A cemetery source said: 'Other than the Jackson family and the Forest Lawn management, no one knows the exact spot. Staff at the cemetery have been fed several locations, it’s as if they're hoping to confuse everyone.'

http://www.michaeljackson.ro/en/news/michael-jackson-buried-in-unmarked-grave-at-forest-lawn-to-prevent-grave-from-being-defaced(1465)

yeah read that and posted it since some reports say he is on ice and they are battling over where he will be buried but then some say he has already been buried in one of the Jackson's plots next to his GM..who knows..but they need to keep it quite and behind those gates IMO

[aproudmom]

http://www.theinsider.com/news/2685155_The_Lost_Girl_of_Neverland_Spills_Michael_ Jackson_Secrets

Video Included

Meet Nisha Kataria, who tells "The Insider": "I was the last kid to ever live at Neverland with Michael Jackson."

Nisha tells us she met Michael when she was 17. She says the King of Pop gave her a private singing audition and was impressed with what he heard.

"The first thing he said was, 'You have the voice of an angel, and not a lot of people could do what you just did.'"

She became Michael's secret prodigy, and says she was even set to be an opening act for two or three of his comeback shows.

thanks for the link very sad she did not get the chance :sad:

[Unperson1984]

who Paris and Prince I think they look very much alike there eyes..and when younger they really did.. they do not look like DR but I am sure they are hers..

I don't see it, Paris has blue eyes and Prince has brown eyes. Does anyone know why Prince's hair was bleached when he was little?

While I was at the manicure shop today I read a magazine with these beautiful pictures of the children when they were younger. I just found it online too.

http://www.okmagazine.com/2009/07/ok-exclusive-photos-michael-jacksons-life-as-a-dad/029_oknews_mic_092-copy/

[Kathlb]

I don't see it, Paris has blue eyes and Prince has brown eyes. Does anyone know why Prince's hair was bleached when he was little?

While I was at the manicure shop today I read a magazine with these beautiful pictures of the children when they were younger. I just found it online too.

http://www.okmagazine.com/2009/07/ok-exclusive-photos-michael-jacksons-life-as-a-dad/029_oknews_mic_092-copy/

What beautiful children they are. And wonderful photography. Thanks for that.

[GentleBreeze]

I don't see it, Paris has blue eyes and Prince has brown eyes. Does anyone know why Prince's hair was bleached when he was little?

While I was at the manicure shop today I read a magazine with these beautiful pictures of the children when they were younger. I just found it online too.

http://www.okmagazine.com/2009/07/ok-exclusive-photos-michael-jacksons-life-as-a-dad/029_oknews_mic_092-copy/

Thank you so much.

To me Paris doesn't have blue eyes...they seem to be a gorgeous shade of green and just illuminates her face. Prince and Blanket have brown eyes. The shape of Paris' eyes are much different from her brother, Prince imo.

I don't know if they bleached his hair or not. It looks light when he was a baby and may have lightened over the years and then began to darken and remained dark. One of our daughters was that way.

I thought the close up photo of Blanket when he was a baby was so pretty.

They all are such pretty children.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I've seen this posted by you before on the links thread. Very sweet report imo.

I often ask myself: What if Michael had survived just a little bit longer? Could he have felt to be loved again by an audience? Would have the media robbed him of any fair chance of his comeback? Or would have his drug problem increased in a way that he would have messed up all he had worked for so hard before?

Imo, this time he would have been successful and the media or anyone couldn't have stopped him. His ardent fans would have overpowered any negative the media tried to put out. I noticed in his rehearsal video how his voice was strong as ever. And lets face it, all of his shows were sold out. Lots of people believed in Michael and they wanted so much to see him perform again like no other entertainer in the world and imo these shows would have been even more spectacular than anything he had ever done before.

He may have continued to want to rest and may have used Diprivan because he said on tours he was lucky if he could sleep three hours a night but I do believe that Michael was trying to get healthier so that he would be in shape for the shows.

To this day, rightly or wrongly, I believe all MJ wanted to do is get some much needed sleep. Whether it was REM sleep for him or not he felt rested. Maybe he liked that for a little while his brain rested too as he was a perfectionist and must have had new ideas bombarding his mind continuously.

imo

[flipflop]

Thank you so much.

To me Paris doesn't have blue eyes...they seem to be a gorgeous shade of green and just illuminates her face. Prince and Blanket have brown eyes. The shape of Paris' eyes are much different from her brother, Prince imo.

I don't know if they bleached his hair or not. It looks light when he was a baby and may have lightened over the years and then began to darken and remained dark. One of our daughters was that way.

I thought the close up photo of Blanket when he was a baby was so pretty.

They all are such pretty children.

imo

IMO, there is a solid line of demarcation showing roots in some of the pictures I have seen when he was really young. Maybe MJ just hated to see Prince's gorgeous blond hair turn to brown. Those truly are beautiful kids.

[Firehead11]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/08/michael-jacksons-doctor-left-pop-star-alone-after-administered-powerful-drug-to-make-phone-calls.html

Michael Jackson's doctor left singer alone after giving him powerful drug, sources say


If this report is true, they better get those charges filed.
Dmitry Gorin, a defense lawyer who was a deputy district attorney, said that to prove involuntary manslaughter, prosecutors would have to show that Murray’s conduct was reckless to the point that no reasonable physician would consider such a course of treatment.

I think they have that part covered.

[Cindylee]

I don't see it, Paris has blue eyes and Prince has brown eyes. Does anyone know why Prince's hair was bleached when he was little?

While I was at the manicure shop today I read a magazine with these beautiful pictures of the children when they were younger. I just found it online too.

http://www.okmagazine.com/2009/07/ok-exclusive-photos-michael-jacksons-life-as-a-dad/029_oknews_mic_092-copy/

Thanks for sharing the pictures. I think they look like DR.

[ScoobyDoo]

It's my opinion he didn't actually sing at the dance rehearsals. He Lip synced

At some point he DID sing the actual song.

[flipflop]

Yes, he hair was surely bleached. imo

Well, you can use a high lift color on his baby fine hair and it would lift it up that light. But I'm not going to split hairs over it, lol. I agree that his hair was lightened as a young child.

[ScoobyDoo]

and which song would that be?


Each one that you can hear his voice.

[GentleBreeze]

Each one that you can hear his voice.

Even those who were actually there and a part of the rehearsal themselves talked about how he still had the same magnificent voice and range when he sang in the rehearsals.

Since they were there and would know if it was lip synced or not, I will stick with what they said.

I highly doubt that Columbia would buy 100s of hours of rehearsal video of MJ for 60M if he was just lip syncing.:laugh:

As one of them said "Mike was Back!":wink:

I think they very carefully selected the very very short clip they let the public see. When the movie comes out showing all of the song and dance routines he did it is going to make his fans run out and buy even more music by the great entertainer.

[ScoobyDoo]

Link to each one please

The link thread is right over there. -------->

[GentleBreeze]

Good morning

Thanks unperson for the pics. They are beautiful children.


Prince Michael's hair was definitely bleached -- here is a picture from the link that unperson linked (photo 24 of 30)

In photo 7 of 30 -- Paris looks just like DR.

http://www.okmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/030_oknews_jac_913.jpg

http://www.okmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/029_oknews_mic_042-copy.jpg

I guess she may due to her being lighter skin toned but I don't see much resemblance to Debbie.

I thought the photo of the young infant that you have linked was most likely Blanket when he was small since that child looks different and it does show Blanket being born because he is in the arms of President Clinton in one of the photos.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

“Michael hasn’t performed some of these songs for years. It’s expected that he will forget some of the words,” my source at the rehearsals tells me. Michael Jackson will be lip-syncing, rather than actually singing, most or all of the songs in the show.

http://www.examiner.com/x-7494-LA-Gossip-Examiner~y2009m6d10-Michael-Jackson-Having-trouble-lipsyncing-words-to-his-songs

LONDON - American R&B star Akon says that pop legend Michael Jackson won’t be singing live during his comeback concerts. The news has disappointed his fans who splurged on tickets to attend his shows.


Akon, who had earlier collaborated with Jackson, says he won’t be showing off his vocals during his This Is It revival tour and will instead rely on a pre-recorded track, reports contactmusic.com.

“Michael singing I’m not so sure about. He will perform but not sing,” he said.

http://blog.taragana.com/e/2009/05/31/jackson-to-lip-sync-during-comeback-gigs-fans-upset-6416/

Was this person even a part of the O2 rehearsals or anything to do with the show?

Or is he another one that speaks but was not even involved?

So which is it? He says he isnt sure about MJ singing then he says he will not sing. If he was not going to sing then how was he going to introduce his new song to his fans?

imo

[ScoobyDoo]

http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0geu6xLXYRKFfkAcO9XNyoA?p=R%26B+star+ Akon+michael+jackson+lip+sync&y=Search&fr=slv8-tyc7&fr2=sb-top&sao=1

about 50 more links ^


Why does it matter to you this much? He is dead now, and won't be singing another song.

[daniel green]

Different in every way, coloring, ears, noses, eye shape...

It makes me wonder if Rowe is their mother. I would expect some common traits if they share the same biological mother.

:confused:

I don't believe she is the biological mother.

[GentleBreeze]

Why does it matter to you this much? He is dead now, and won't be singing another song.

http://english.cri.cn/6666/2009/07/03/1321s498559.htm

Ed Alonzo, a concert magician-comedian hired by Michael Jackon to create two set-piece illusions for his London shows recalled that Wednesday night, "He looked great and had great energy. He wasn't singing at full level, but it was as beautiful as ever."

The magician said, "He didn't even take a moment to grab a bottle of water or take a rest. He went from one number to the other. 'Let's do that again.' He wanted to look at props for the 'Thriller' number, a gigantic spider. He was dancing, singing, joking with the crew. If he was having any aches or pains, nobody knew about it that night."

And if one googles there are countless others who have made similar statements that were actually there and saw him perform. That is why the videos of MJ brought 60 million.:smile:

imo

[daniel green]

snipped. Does anyone know why Prince's hair was bleached when he was little?



I have always wondered that. Under the age of 1, even. And blush on the children, too.

That little girl has gorgeous eyes.

[daniel green]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/08/michael-jacksons-doctor-left-pop-star-alone-after-administered-powerful-drug-to-make-phone-calls.html

Michael Jackson's doctor left singer alone after giving him powerful drug, sources say

From the link:

Jackson had been using propofol as a sleep aid on and off for a decade, according to one law enforcement source. :ohmy::ohmy::ohmy:

Evidence gathered during the investigation suggests that the propofol admission alone might not be enough to charge Murray with manslaughter. Other prescription drugs, including an anti-anxiety medication, were found in Jackson’s system along with a limited amount of propofol. The law enforcement source said the presence of the other drugs without a massive amount of propofol could complicate any prosecution. The other drugs may have amplified the effect of the anesthetic and depressed Jackson’s breathing, sources said. Another factor is Jackson’s history of drug addiction and his prior use of propofol in particular.

[daniel green]

Lip syncing is nothing new for MJ as well as many many others during live performances . It's really isn't that big a deal.

even his fans know it

Of course not, forpetesakes. Even Madonna does it while on tour. Britney Spears, etc.

I agree that MJ was lip synching to a track during the rehearsal snippets we've seen.

[daniel green]

We're told on July 19, two of Jackson's lawyers went with Vaccaro to the storage locker in Las Vegas where the memorabilia was being stored. According to Vaccaro, 114 items were missing, including the 8 items Jackson's lawyers were there to retrieve.The items ended up being sold a week later by Clark County Public Auction owner Mario Trabado -- who says he acquired the items legally from a private seller.
Jackson's lawyers were suspicious and believe Vaccaro took the items out of the storage unit. Vaccaro says he removed nothing, and filed a report with the North Las Vegas Police Department. The PD tells us they're investigating the case.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/13/michael-jackson-memorabilia-missing-henry-veccaro/

Geeze louise, just how many storage units are involved???

Is there anyone with whom MJ had a business relationship, long term, without disputes and legal battles during his career? No snark in that question, btw, I really don't know.

[GentleBreeze]

It matters to me because I soooooo enjoy being right;)

How do you know you are right?

imo

[daniel green]

Michael Jackson’s relatives are set to buy a private garden at Los Angeles’ Forest Lawn Memorial Park so they can all be laid to rest in the same place. The new plot may also be Michael’s final resting place, after his father Joe Jackson denied reports the late pop star has already been committed to the ground. A source said: “They are waiting to work out the details on buying plots for the whole family before they lay Michael to rest.” Joe has stated the ‘King of Pop’ is “not buried yet”, despite speculation he was laid to rest at Forest Lawn last week.

http://www.thetimes.co.za/Entertainment/CelebZone/Article.aspx?id=1049337

[ScoobyDoo]

It matters to me because I soooooo enjoy being right;)


What were you right about? I must have missed that event.

[ScoobyDoo]

Last post on the subject as I see many prefer the illusion to reality.


It's done all the time.


http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=47662



He could still sell out 50 shows.

[Poochie Pie]

He could still sell out 50 shows. Probably could have sold out 100.... :wink:

[ScoobyDoo]

Who disputed that?

I guess as the days go by, you finally run out of negative things to post about MJ.

[Rayosunshine]

You better let your uninformed orthopedic surgeons know right away! :)

And if your orthopedic surgeon is anything like the one I saw a few months ago, you better spell it out real simple - like you are talking to a kindergartener - scary!

[daniel green]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32408103/ns/entertainment-music/

[Firehead11]

I guess as the days go by, you finally run out of negative things to post about MJ.

Nah......:biggrin:

[daniel green]

We've obtained the search warrant used to raid the Las Vegas pharmacy that Dr. Conrad Murray has used in the past, and there appears to be a direct link between the doctor and Propofol ... and there may be a link to Michael Jackson as well. The documents show authorities were looking for credit card receipts and other docs related to the purchase of drugs purchased by Dr. Murray on May 122, 2009. The warrant then mentions a specific bottle of Propofol with the lot number manufactured by Teva and Hospira, Inc. We've already reported the LAPD found Propofol manufactured by Teva at Jackson's house.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/13/michael-jackson-propofol-search-las-vegas-pharmacy/

[who_is_it]

It's my opinion he didn't actually sing at the dance rehearsals. He Lip synced

No, he did NOT lip-sync.

ALONZO (magician):
"He looked great and had great energy. He wasn’t singing at full level, but it was as beautiful as ever," Alonzo said. "He didn’t even take a moment to grab a bottle of water or take a rest. (...)""
source: LA Times, 26 June 2009, "Michael Jackson's last rehearsal: 'just beaming with gladness'"; link no longer available

VOCAL TRAINER DORIAN HOLLEY:
"(...) and he would sing through all the parts rapid-fire to show us what he wanted. We would just sit there with our jaws open — it was awesome," Holley says. "He could still do everything""
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

[daniel green]

http://www.aolcdn.com/tmz_documents/0813_mjsearch_warrant.pdf

[VC2]

excellent excellent point by a doctor on HLN.

It won't matter how much propofol is there and it might not be the cause of death itself, the doctor will be. That the drug itself reduces breathing etc. and needs tight monitoring. That death does not happen instantaneously, and Michael Jackson would not have been in the condition he was in without the doctor administering it. By not monitoring it closely, by not having rescue equipment, leaving the room, even if he gave the correct dose Dr. Murray is responsible for MJ's death.

imo

[Roxxanne]

excellent excellent point by a doctor on HLN.

It won't matter how much propofol is there and it might not be the cause of death itself, the doctor will be. That the drug itself reduces breathing etc. and needs tight monitoring. That death does not happen instantaneously, and Michael Jackson would not have been in the condition he was in without the doctor administering it. By not monitoring it closely, by not having rescue equipment, leaving the room, even if he gave the correct dose Dr. Murray is responsible for MJ's death.

imo
Didn't he or someone else say even if Michael asked for it he should or could have said no. I just caught the tail end of that comment. But yea, excellent point! IMO

[BOZGAL2]

excellent excellent point by a doctor on HLN.

It won't matter how much propofol is there and it might not be the cause of death itself, the doctor will be. That the drug itself reduces breathing etc. and needs tight monitoring. That death does not happen instantaneously, and Michael Jackson would not have been in the condition he was in without the doctor administering it. By not monitoring it closely, by not having rescue equipment, leaving the room, even if he gave the correct dose Dr. Murray is responsible for MJ's death.

imo

BINGO :thumbsup:

The facts speak volumes. JMO

[ScoobyDoo]

Why couldn't he make the phones calls while he was in the room? MJ was knocked out - not like someone would be eavesdriopping.

Call me nutso, crazy, whatever any of you want to -- but I believe this Dr has admitted so much because he killed MJ for money and makes him look like he accidentally did it. Now just have to figure out why JMHO


Thats why they should go after him for murder 2.


imo...of course

and...hello

[daniel green]

snipped

Call me nutso, crazy, whatever any of you want to -- but I believe this Dr has admitted so much because he killed MJ for money and makes him look like he accidentally did it. Now just have to figure out why JMHO

Oh, my goodness, that is just so unlikely. You actually believe the doctor was in some scheme to kill MJ for money and did so? :w00t:

Seems from the search warrants that the employees of that "pharmacy" are known to the police, by name.

[flipflop]

Search in Jackson Case -- Smoking Gun?

Posted Aug 13th 2009 5:30PM by TMZ Staff

We've obtained the search warrant used to raid the Las Vegas pharmacy that Dr. Conrad Murray has used in the past, and there appears to be a direct link between the doctor and Propofol ... and there may be a link to Michael Jackson as well.

Search Warrant: Click to view
The documents show authorities were looking for credit card receipts and other docs related to drugs purchased by Dr. Murray on May 12, 2009. The warrant then mentions specific vials of Propofol manufactured by Teva and Hospira, Inc.

We've already reported the LAPD found Propofol manufactured by Teva at Jackson's house.

And authorities were looking for FedEx records relating to "the purchase, transfer, receiving, ordering, delivery and storage of Propofol to Dr. Conrad Murray."

Short story ... it looks like authorities believe they know where and when the Propofol that killed Jackson was purchased.


http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/13/michael-jackson-propofol-search-las-vegas-pharmacy/

[ScoobyDoo]

Oh, my goodness, that is just so unlikely. You actually believe the doctor was in some scheme to kill MJ for money and did so? :w00t:

Seems from the search warrants that the employees of that "pharmacy" are known to the police, by name.


I'm trying to figure out what was in that warrant that leads you to believe the employee names were known by the police. I only saw one name of an employee, and I can't see where his name was already known. Not being argumentative, just curious.
:huh:

[Cindylee]

Anyone watching HLN?...I havent posted here for a bit...well, it seems my initial upset is getting some backup..I hear Dr. Murray admits he left MJ alone..left the room to make some phone calls??..Humming..why?..Patient is unconscious..Pt. wont hear him...?? Maybe he is saying that because he knows his phone calls to his office will be linked/found..at around 9ish AM LA time (June25/09)....and he also says when he returned to room..MJ had stopped breathing...Yikes..wonder what he did until 1130ish before 911 call??..Conrad Murray is digging himself a huge hole ( at least thru his Attny Chernoff) with all these statements..Oh yeah..He also professes he didnt know about MJ;s addiction problems??..Now..that one I cannot believe..wonder where he has been..living under a rock somewhere??..Even regular housewives knew something about his perscription drug issues..Man! Attny Chernoff is not helping his client one bit!!

LMS

I agree 100% with everything you have said here.

[ScoobyDoo]

Nope"X"..you are not crazy..Conrad's Attny has all but admitted to negligence..admitted so much..however LOL denies knowing about Drug addictions..:lol:..but he also chose to administer this drug without the required equipment....He can deny all he wants..that this drug should NOT have killed him...Nope Conrad..the drug created issues..which you were unprepared or unqualified to deal with...As that Dr. of HLN said..he would have been fired if he had left a patient without proper monitoring..he is obviously disgusted with the medical practicing of Dr. Murray..He also had a funny reaction to Dr. Murrays "Odd CPR Mode" not a technique he has ever heard of??..

I do know I immediately came down very hard on Dr. Murray..as some just didnt believe he could be so ignorant of Policy and Procedures ..also many wished to give benefit of the doubt..Me?..Nope!...I saw immediately what went down..and knew exactly why..Dr. Murray's Negligence..period..and he should have known better!! Take away the Diprivan..MJ would be alive today..even given his other drug addictions...Diprivan was most likely the final straw that brokes the camel's back!!

LMS

I've been right there with you the whole way. I was just wondering if Dr. Murray already knew MJ was dead, and any chance of reviving him had long expired, and then he called people around and looked like he was giving CPR,even though he knew it would do no good, accept to make himself look better.... could that be considered tampering with a corpse?

[Unperson1984]

Why couldn't he make the phones calls while he was in the room? MJ was knocked out - not like someone would be eavesdriopping.

Call me nutso, crazy, whatever any of you want to -- but I believe this Dr has admitted so much because he killed MJ for money and makes him look like he accidentally did it. Now just have to figure out why JMHO

Murder-for-hire? The only people to profit from his death are the Jackson family.

[Cindylee]

I've been right there with you the whole way. I was just wondering if Dr. Murray already knew MJ was dead, and any chance of reviving him had long expired, and then he called people around and looked like he was giving CPR,even though he knew it would do no good, accept to make himself look better.... could that be considered tampering with a corpse?

And in the mean time, cleaned up some stuff, and left others. That was strange. Tampering with a corpse??? :ohmy::laugh:

[ScoobyDoo]

Maybe I'm missing it - but the only employees' names I saw were associated with Dr Murray. I did not see the name of any pharmacy employees :confused:


On the last page it states a copy of the warrant was left with someone. I assume that is the employee of the building that was searched.

[Cindylee]

Murder-for-hire? The only people to profit from his death are the Jackson family.

And maybe the concert promoters if they thought MJ wouldn't be able to finish the tour???

[VC2]

Anyone watching HLN?...I havent posted here for a bit...well, it seems my initial upset is getting some backup..I hear Dr. Murray admits he left MJ alone..left the room to make some phone calls??..Humming..why?..Patient is unconscious..Pt. wont hear him...?? Maybe he is saying that because he knows his phone calls to his office will be linked/found..at around 9ish AM LA time (June25/09)....and he also says when he returned to room..MJ had stopped breathing...Yikes..wonder what he did until 1130ish before 911 call??..Conrad Murray is digging himself a huge hole ( at least thru his Attny Chernoff) with all these statements..Oh yeah..He also professes he didnt know about MJ;s addiction problems??..Now..that one I cannot believe..wonder where he has been..living under a rock somewhere??..Even regular housewives knew something about his perscription drug issues..Man! Attny Chernoff is not helping his client one bit!!

LMS

ITA lynda!

i also think that Murray's attorney is as competent a lawyer as Murray is a physician...iow, not.

[Cindylee]

I agree that Dr. Murray needs to get a new attny. This guy didn't help him much. Although if I remember correctly, Dr. Murray talked to the police without his attny. the first time. Not sure though. Anyone?

[retiredcop]

Seems to me by the time everyone here is finished picking Dr Murray's bones, he will be in San Quinton along side Scott Peterson waiting for the death sentence to be carried out.

in my opinion

[Cindylee]

YEGADS..He is flippin Doctor...quite able to assess Death...I would even go so far as to believe " Abuse" of a corpse!!:angry:..He had been practicing medicine for many decades..he would know and understand when unretrievable life signs are there..and ya dont need any brain probe to assess that..Man oh man.... Dr. Conrad really got my hackles up..back on the day I heard the word "Diprivan"..I have not let go of my anger..as a HC professional..I immediately GOT IT!!

I truly hope something meaningful gets done soon..Not having the autopsy speaks volumes..It should have been out within a few weeks..and we are coming up to almost 2 months...You have to know, they want to affect an arrest..before they air that autopsy...

LMS

You and me both, when we heard "diprovan". Yikes those were some good posting days. :wink:

[Cindylee]

Seems to me by the time everyone here is finished picking Dr Murray's bones, he will be in San Quinton along side Scott Peterson waiting for the death sentence to be carried out.

in my opinion

You don't think he should be held responsible? I don't see how he can't be. And, have thought so all along.

[Unperson1984]

And AEG IMO - I do NOT believe MJ would have completed all of those concerts and I do believe they were aware of it. Thats why they were so quick to release the rehearsal video allegedly showing MJ in such good shape to get it out to the public before the rumors started he wouldn't do those shows.



AEG Live to make profit on Jackson's legacy
3 Jul 2009, 2006 hrs IST, PTI

LOS ANGELES: Michael Jackson's sudden death had left AEG Live, the promoter of his comeback concerts, in shock but what initially looked like a huge financial blow to the company may turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

But with plans to turn Jackson's last rehearsal videos into albums and televised tribute, a commemorative ticket plan and insurance money, the company may end up making profits, reported Los Angeles Times quoting AEG chief executive Randy Phillips.

Jackson died weeks before his much awaited sold-out comeback concerts series in London's O2 arena.

"For the record, this great company I work for is not bankrupt. They're not going out of business and they're certainly not in trouble. I'm heartbroken, but the company is fine," Phillips said.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/AEG-Live-to-make-profit-on-Jacksons-legacy/articleshow/4735007.cms

Isn't AEG the one who took out the insurance policy? Even if they're covered for loss, they would have made far more if the concerts had been held. And they still could have released a DVD of the concert for American audience.

IMHO

[ScoobyDoo]

Seems to me by the time everyone here is finished picking Dr Murray's bones, he will be in San Quinton along side Scott Peterson waiting for the death sentence to be carried out.

in my opinion

I think Corcoran... or perhaps The Pleasant Valley Prison. I love that name.

[Cindylee]

Isn't AEG the one who took out the insurance policy? Even if they're covered for loss, they would have made far more if the concerts had been held. And they still could have released a DVD of the concert for American audience.

IMHO

Aren't they getting a persentage of the rehersal video?

[retiredcop]

I think Corcoran... or perhaps The Pleasant Valley Prison. I love that name.

Sorry, I believe all death row inmates go to San Quentin.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

You don't think he should be held responsible? I don't see how he can't be. And, have thought so all along.

I don't know yet. I guess we'll see. I sure don't believe this was a murder for hire.

in my opinion

[Unperson1984]

Aren't they getting a persentage of the rehersal video?

Sure, but they could have made as much or more from a concert video. My point is their losses are covered by insurance, but with MJ dead there is no chance for any future profit.

[retiredcop]

Aren't they getting a persentage of the rehersal video?

I believe it is being released as a movie with the estate getting 90% and AEG 10%.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Sure, but they could have made as much or more from a concert video. My point is their losses are covered by insurance, but with MJ dead there is no chance for any future profit.

The only chance for future profit is going to the estate. They will control everything MJ.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Joe was strangely happy right after his son died. IMO planning a record company and thinking he was going to control that estate. The Jacksons didn't think there was a will and Katherine filed quickly to become the administrator. So if looking for suspects in a murder for hire, I would think Joe would be a suspect.

in my opinion

[Streetdreamer]

Held responsible yepper..San Quentin..Death Penalty..of course not!! Some really go over the top, eh?

The problem with Dr. Murray is by his own lawyer admissions..He was not just negligent..but due to his status as a "specialist"..demanding high dollars...as Dr. Murray told his patients...his "Opportunity of a Lifetime"...he simply must be held accountable for his professional decisions he made under hs contract with MJ..and that was first and foremost..first do no harm..and secondly..should never have put him a further risk...which he DID..not having rescue equipement..nor monitoring devices...

Dr. Murray created his own "problems"..no one forced him to disregard his "Oath"

No need for San Quentin...maybe losing his license to practice medicine as a Primary..and maybe some jail time!!..

Having said this..I do not believe for one minute he was involved in a murder for hire..NOPE...It was MJ himself that insisted on his "Hiring" to AEG..not the other way around....So Conrad Murray created his own swan song...and has to may for his part in causing this death.

I dont discount MJ's Drug abuse history one bit..nor MJ;s insistance for this treatment..It is simple..Licensed professionals have a higher calling..and Money shouldnt be in that call!! Lives are at risk when any physican makes a decision..and they know it..thats why so many years of mentored studies are necessary to train these guys!!..Licenses like his dont grow on trees..or found in crackerjack boxes!!

LMS

A very rational conclusion. I would warn anyone, dont ever hire someone with a large debt. They're looking for a fast way out of it even if its dishonest. I beleive this was the only method this doctor would use in order to justify his paycheck to MJJ. Now everyone suffers the loss. Jail time, yeah. He was put in a position of trust much like a teacher has over a student even though the student is over 18. Same goes a doctor over MJJ or even worse because I would contend this also involves some sort of fraud if all standard practical precautions aren't recognized or taken. Including the negligence of allowing someone to have access to MJJ while he was under medication. Jail time is definately on the horizon.

[Cindylee]

I don't know yet. I guess we'll see. I sure don't believe this was a murder for hire.

in my opinion
I don't either.

[GentleBreeze]

Murder-for-hire? The only people to profit from his death are the Jackson family.

I think many people will profit by Michael's death.

imo

[retiredcop]

I think many people will profit by Michael's death.

imo

Not likely with those executors on the job.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Why couldn't he make the phones calls while he was in the room? MJ was knocked out - not like someone would be eavesdriopping.

Call me nutso, crazy, whatever any of you want to -- but I believe this Dr has admitted so much because he killed MJ for money and makes him look like he accidentally did it. Now just have to figure out why JMHO

While I don't usually buy into conspiracies but in this case something just seems hidden right beneath the surface.

All of a sudden with the death of MJ anything remotely concerning MJ is going through the roof monetarily.

Now we have valuable memorabilia supposedly missing from a locked storage unit and auctioned off already. Who did that and how?

Now we see beautiful photos of the Michael Jackson family in OK magazine. Who did that and how much did they make? Since Katherine made a point to not want any footage of the children shown in the movie then surely the Jackson family didn't do it or did they and did that money going into the estate for the children?

And what about all the FORMERS in MJs life? Is there more millions out there owed to MJ and because they were his past financial advisers did he trust them too much and they did crooked deal behind his back and embezzled from him? Were they worried what Branca would find out if he went back and researched all those years?

And Murray trying to say he didn't know MJ had an addition problem is about as foolish as him trying to say that when he treated James Brown he thought the most he did was take an aspirin.:rolleyes:



imo

[GentleBreeze]

Not likely with those executors on the job.

in my opinion

He cannot stop everyone.

MJ memorabilia is selling in every city in this country and has been since he died. Our local flea markets are filled to the brim every weekend with Michael T-shirts, hats, faux gloves and CDs who are most likely illegally obtained and they have been selling like hotcakes since this happened.

The Warhol painting of MJ is being auctioned off with a starting bid of $800,000.

Memorabilia is being stolen and auctioned off already.

Sony's profits are rising fast with MJs music being in the top five albums for weeks on end.

Oh yeah, lots of people are profiting that don't have a thing to do with the MJ estate.

imo

[Cindylee]

Already being discussed, but here is the story from TMZ.

Dr. Conrad Murray: I Had No Idea ...

Posted Aug 13th 2009 6:00PM by TMZ Staff

Dr. Conrad Murray says he didn't have a clue about Michael Jackson's "very unusual problems" when he signed on to be his doc.

Murray, through his lawyer's publicist, told CNN Dr. Murray didn't know what drugs Jackson was taking or whether he was addicted when he accepted the gig.

And get this ... the publicist says Dr. Murray had no way of knowing, other than accepting Jackson at his word, if he was taking drugs. Remember, we broke the story that dozens of injection sites were found on Jackson's body, including multiple sites on his neck.

http://www.tmz.com/

[Cindylee]

Also from TMZ.

Propofol Manufacturer in MJ Case in the Dark

Posted Aug 13th 2009 5:01PM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson PropofolWe just got off the phone with Hospira Inc., one of the Propofol manufacturers mentioned in the Las Vegas warrant used to search a pharmacy connected to Dr. Conrad Murray.

It appears law enforcement believes Hospira manufactured one of the bottles of Propofol found in Michael Jackson's home after he died.

A rep from Hospira tells us "Hospira is one of a number of companies that currently produce Propofol. Hospira has no information regarding the manufacturer of the alleged bottles of Diprivan/Propofol at Michael Jackson's home. Any licensed health care provider could purchase drugs from many sources, including wholesalers and other distribution channels."

Translation ... they won't say if law enforcement has contacted the company -- though we know the DEA has already contacted the manufacturers of the Propofol lots found in Jackson's home.

The company also appears to be saying ... once it leaves their facility, they have no idea where it goes.

http://www.tmz.com/

[GentleBreeze]

Already being discussed, but here is the story from TMZ.

Dr. Conrad Murray: I Had No Idea ...

Posted Aug 13th 2009 6:00PM by TMZ Staff

Dr. Conrad Murray says he didn't have a clue about Michael Jackson's "very unusual problems" when he signed on to be his doc.

Murray, through his lawyer's publicist, told CNN Dr. Murray didn't know what drugs Jackson was taking or whether he was addicted when he accepted the gig.

And get this ... the publicist says Dr. Murray had no way of knowing, other than accepting Jackson at his word, if he was taking drugs. Remember, we broke the story that dozens of injection sites were found on Jackson's body, including multiple sites on his neck.

http://www.tmz.com/

It is laughable when a attorney has to have their own publicist to talk for them.:laugh:

Then why was it said that Dr. Murray gave the ER doctors a full list of prescriptions Mr. Jackson was taking if he didn't know? And the news article said that the list was lengthy.

Somebody is telling a tale, I believe. That dog aint gonna hunt, imo.

imo

[Cindylee]

It is laughable when a attorney has to have their own publicist to talk for them.:laugh:

Then why was it said that Dr. Murray gave the ER doctors a full list of prescriptions Mr. Jackson was taking if he didn't know? And the news article said that the list was lengthy.

Somebody is telling a tale, I believe. That dog aint gonna hunt, imo.

imo

Yep, I think Dr. M. is in big trouble.

[daniel green]

I'm trying to figure out what was in that warrant that leads you to believe the employee names were known by the police. snipped:

I do not think they didn't know before. That is why the employees' names are on the warrant.

[ScoobyDoo]

I do not think they didn't know before. That is why the employees' names are on the warrant.


oh.. you mean Dr. Murray's employees. Gotcha ;)

[daniel green]

I don't know yet. I guess we'll see. I sure don't believe this was a murder for hire.

in my opinion

Of course not. Gosh I didn't think anyone but Mr and Mrs Jackson thought up such consipracy theories. :scared:

[daniel green]

snipped Remember, we broke the story that dozens of injection sites were found on Jackson's body, including multiple sites on his neck.

http://www.tmz.com/

When the autopsy results are made public, one way or another, and they will be, I bet that the body being covered with injection marks will be true.

The fact that there were multiple Rxs at the rented house, etc, make it quite clear that MJ was an addict, which is why all the warrants state it.

[daniel green]

snipped

Then why was it said that Dr. Murray gave the ER doctors a full list of prescriptions Mr. Jackson was taking if he didn't know? And the news article said that the list was lengthy.


imo

Dr Murray, he alleges, did not know that MJ was an addict and taking multiple Rxs whe he took the gig. Not after. That is what TMZ says.

[daniel green]

A very rational conclusion. I would warn anyone, dont ever hire someone with a large debt. They're looking for a fast way out of it even if its dishonest. snipped.

Oh forpetesakes, why would the doctor kill the patient who was paying him the big bucks to give him anesthesia every night? :confused:

[daniel green]

A rep from Hospira tells us "Hospira is one of a number of companies that currently produce Propofol. Hospira has no information regarding the manufacturer of the alleged bottles of Diprivan/Propofol at Michael Jackson's home. Any licensed health care provider could purchase drugs from many sources, including wholesalers and other distribution channels."
snipped

Interesting.

[Poochie Pie]

It is laughable when a attorney has to have their own publicist to talk for them.:laugh:

Then why was it said that Dr. Murray gave the ER doctors a full list of prescriptions Mr. Jackson was taking if he didn't know? And the news article said that the list was lengthy.

Somebody is telling a tale, I believe. That dog aint gonna hunt, imo.

imo That dog, nor any of the other "dogs" coming from Dr. Murray are going to hunt, GB... He's becoming the "I didn't know" man... He "didn't know" the address where he was living to give to 911... He "didn't know" where a phone was.. And now, he "didn't know" the numerous prescription drugs that MJ was taking...!! I bet he DID know how much he was getting paid for his "opportunity of a Lifetime".. IMO

Poochie

[GentleBreeze]

Dr Murray, he alleges, did not know that MJ was an addict and taking multiple Rxs whe he took the gig. Not after. That is what TMZ says.

Well he sure seem to learn quick if he wrote all the prescriptions down for the ER doctors.

I didn't interpret that way either. I think he is trying to say he did not know at the time he was hired that MJ wanted to be put to sleep with Propovol.

Being addicted to prescription drugs is not an "unusual problem." I would think needing Propovol to sleep would be so I dont agree with you assesment as to what was reported by TMZ.

Strange though that supposedly Murray was buying Propovol on May 12, 2009. Guess he learned quickly.

imo

[Poochie Pie]

Anyone want to volunteer to go on NG's show? :laugh:

None of the TH's seem to know what they are talking about. Think Nancy needs a new researcher. NG is confused because she thought MJ collapsed in front of his children so doesn't understand how it "jives" with the report she heard today about the Dr leaving the room to find MJ not breathing. They apparently are NOT reading this Board, Xenam...!! If they were, they would know exactly what the story is.. Our "Sleuths" on here are quite amazing... :wink:

Poochie

[GentleBreeze]

That dog, nor any of the other "dogs" coming from Dr. Murray are going to hunt, GB... He's becoming the "I didn't know" man... He "didn't know" the address where he was living to give to 911... He "didn't know" where a phone was.. And now, he "didn't know" the numerous prescription drugs that MJ was taking...!! I bet he DID know how much he was getting paid for his "opportunity of a Lifetime".. IMO

Poochie

Hi there Poochie!:seeya:

I agree. Ignorance isnt gonna cut it.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Didn't a previous article say Dr Murray gave him sedatives before administering the propofol?

Yes, X. A lot of the links haven't been added in the link thread though so I am not sure it is there. We all need to try and stay on top of that so we can look back as these things go forward and we hear some conclusive evidence.

imo

[Poochie Pie]

Didn't a previous article say Dr Murray gave him sedatives before administering the propofol? Yep... I have read that as well... Of course tomorrow, we will probably hear that he "didn't know" that they were sedatives.... IMO

Poochie

[retiredcop]

They apparently are NOT reading this Board, Xenam...!! If they were, they would know exactly what the story is.. Our "Sleuths" on here are quite amazing... :wink:

Poochie

Yes, nothing like an armchair sleuth. LOL

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Good idea. As I come across any links will check to see if they are there and if not will post them.

Goodnight for now :seeya:

Goodnight. See ya tomorrow!:seeya:

[Poochie Pie]

Yes, nothing like an armchair sleuth. LOL

in my opinion That's the best kind, retired... :smile:

Poochie

[daniel green]

Didn't a previous article say Dr Murray gave him sedatives before administering the propofol?

Or concurrently. Multiple sedatives, xanax included.

[who_is_it]

Anyone want to volunteer to go on NG's show? :laugh:

None of the TH's seem to know what they are talking about. Think Nancy needs a new researcher. NG is confused because she thought MJ collapsed in front of his children so doesn't understand how it "jives" with the report she heard today about the Dr leaving the room to find MJ not breathing.

One of the TH's just said that Dr. Murrays current girlfriend is an ex-stripper and he set her up in an apartment near MJ's residence and giave her $3,500 for the first sexual encounter? I never heard or read this before -- anyone?

green: on TMZ
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/12/dr-conrad-murrays-latest-baby-mama-michael-jackson-nicole-alvarez/
red: never heard it before, either

[who_is_it]

I don't know yet. I guess we'll see. I sure don't believe this was a murder for hire.

in my opinion

I agree..., I don't believe in any of this conspiracy theories, either!

[Poochie Pie]

Or concurrently. Multiple sedatives, xanax included. I'm not a Dr. daniel... but, I would think that given all of the facts presented re propofol, how it must be constantly monitored, and how dangerous it can be.. that this could possibly be a lethal combination... I am very disappointed in Dr. Murray, to say the least..!!

Poochie

[Poochie Pie]

I agree..., I don't believe in any of this conspiracy theories, either! Nor do I, who_is_it... However, I do believe that a person can be responsible for someone's death without actually "conspiring" to murder them.. IMO

Poochie

[daniel green]

Oh, I agree, that it was nuts to administer/receive diprivan in such a fashion. I read today on TMZ that MJ had done that for a decade.
:w00t:

All I am saying is that on TMZ, that the dr's lawyer says Dr M did not know MJ was an addict prior to going to work for him. That's all.

[daniel green]

Nor do I, who_is_it... However, I do believe that a person can be responsible for someone's death without actually "conspiring" to murder them.. IMO

Poochie

I questioned X's remark that he/she believes that the doctor "killed MJ for money." Not saying someone is not responsible. But killed MJ for money?

[Poochie Pie]

Oh, I agree, that it was nuts to administer/receive diprivan in such a fashion. I read today on TMZ that MJ had done that for a decade.
:w00t:

All I am saying is that on TMZ, that the dr's lawyer says Dr M did not know MJ was an addict prior to going to work for him. That's all. "Dr M did not know that MJ was an addict prior to going to work for him"... Oh, I understand what you are saying.. I apologize if it came out wrong.. LOL I suppose that IS possible... Thanks for the reply... :smile:

Poochie

[Poochie Pie]

I questioned X's remark that he/she believes that the doctor "killed MJ for money." Not saying someone is not responsible. But killed MJ for money? Nah... I don't believe that at all... Heck, he was being paid 150,000.00 a month... living in a mansion.. all other expenses probably paid as far as travel and whatever... Nothing to be gained by killing him.. IMO

Poochie

[daniel green]

"Dr M did not know that MJ was an addict prior to going to work for him"... Oh, I understand what you are saying.. I apologize if it came out wrong.. LOL I suppose that IS possible... Thanks for the reply... :smile:

Poochie

No problem!

[who_is_it]

I questioned X's remark that he/she believes that the doctor "killed MJ for money." Not saying someone is not responsible. But killed MJ for money?

I didn't read the whole discussion before. All I can say is: The longer MJ had been alive the MORE money he would have made imo.

[who_is_it]

Nor do I, who_is_it... However, I do believe that a person can be responsible for someone's death without actually "conspiring" to murder them.. IMO

Poochie

I agree. He's responsible due to reckless behavior but I don't think it was an intentional (= planned) murder.

[aproudmom]

Red by me:

You must be kidding. Dr. Murray must have been living in a bubble not to know that MJ wasn't an addict.

Got to totally agree with you on this one Eagle

[aproudmom]

excellent excellent point by a doctor on HLN.

It won't matter how much propofol is there and it might not be the cause of death itself, the doctor will be. That the drug itself reduces breathing etc. and needs tight monitoring. That death does not happen instantaneously, and Michael Jackson would not have been in the condition he was in without the doctor administering it. By not monitoring it closely, by not having rescue equipment, leaving the room, even if he gave the correct dose Dr. Murray is responsible for MJ's death.

imo

I am just now watching the repeat and he did say just what you posted

[aproudmom]

Why couldn't he make the phones calls while he was in the room? MJ was knocked out - not like someone would be eavesdriopping.

Call me nutso, crazy, whatever any of you want to -- but I believe this Dr has admitted so much because he killed MJ for money and makes him look like he accidentally did it. Now just have to figure out why JMHO

can I please call you a nutso without getting a bashing? lol:laugh:
you really think so X I am not sure unless someone was paying him to kill him why give up a 150 grand a month unless you were promised something else...he pretty much is only going to get jail time by the way it is looking..I think they are going to challenge it by saying they can not prove it was that drug that killed him..since they are throwing in he did not know he was a addict...yeah right..I am smarter than him I guess if he did not know..

[Streetdreamer]

Oh forpetesakes, why would the doctor kill the patient who was paying him the big bucks to give him anesthesia every night? :confused:

This wasn't on purpose. This was a doctor who needed to justify his paycheck by engaging in unethical behavior in an unsafe enviroment. Its like Stevie Wonder insisting on being the limo driver for 1000 bucks an hour.

[mrsmcgoo]

Good morning all!

Personally, I don't believe that Dr. Murray left MJ's side to make calls. I think that claim is to coverup the calls that were made to his staff to get whatever he had in storage out, and to his family to remove things from the home. I think he made these calls after he was unable to revive MJ. I think without adequate equipment to monitor MJ, he probably stopped breathing and Dr. didn't notice until it was to late.

This is purely an opinion of my own.

[mrsmcgoo]

Valid observation IMO mrsmcgoo. I still believe the first story that he fell asleep and awoke to a dead MJ so agree with you that the calls afterward were made to cover his a**.

Hmmm - wonder why since he had the phone he did not call 911 and I don't buy not knowing the address either. Wasn't it first reported he did not even have access to a telephone? JMO

I don't understand the 911 call issue either. I always thought that when you called 911 they tracked the address somehow? And how could he not have an address or street name or something? He was there repeatedly, plus who filled out the Fed Ex delivery slips? Were the drugs delivered direct to MJ's house?

I just don't believe the Dr.'s story, I think he was busy coming up with his statement to LE to cover his butt.

So many questions!

All, JMO

[Poochie Pie]

Red by me:

You must be kidding. Dr. Murray must have been living in a bubble not to know that MJ wasn't an addict. Eagleeye... I was quoting part of a statement from daniel green's reply to one of my posts... I DO agree with you... I believe Dr. Murray was well aware of every aspect of MJ's personal life.. Being the respectable poster I am, I choose to give the benefit of the doubt to other's opinions.. :smile:

Poochie

[Roxxanne]

So far everything we've read have been about his drug abuse during and prior to his trial in 2005. We really do not have any "evidence" that he was abusing drugs recently. Not saying he wasn't -- just that there is no evidence supporting it. So far everything reported is saying that the Dr. gave him sedatives before administering the propofol.

Unlike 2005 and piror -- no one on his staff or anyone in direct contact with him the past few months says he showed any signs of drug abuse but just the opposite (other than the propofol). JMO

ITA. I heard Mark Geragos(sp) say this on LKL one night also. Probably the only thing I've ever agreed with that man on!

[Poochie Pie]

wow, you allowed 5 minutes for a reply?

No MJ did not kill himself. Agree Firehead... He most certainly DID NOT kill himself..!! IMO

Poochie

[who_is_it]

<snipped>

Unlike 2005 and piror -- no one on his staff or anyone in direct contact with him the past few months says he showed any signs of drug abuse but just the opposite (other than the propofol). JMO

Indeed nobody said so but the people couldn't admit in interviews they knew about. They would be held responsible, too (oven even would be investigated).

Many said he was in top shape at the rehearsals; I conclude he used these drugs only to sleep. It's not possible to rehearse all day long in a wasted condition imo.

[GentleBreeze]

Agree Firehead... He most certainly DID NOT kill himself..!! IMO

Poochie

I also agree, Poochie. In fact I believe MJ had much to live for and renewed hopes and dreams that were in his grasp and coming true.

He certainly knew like the ones that observed him in his last rehearsal that he still had what it took to mesmerize his fan base and beyond.

He was looking forward to his trip to the UK where he and his children would be living in Rod Stewart's mansion. Everything was already arranged and in place.

I don't believe for one second MJ wanted to die. I believe his only objective was to get some much needed sleep and he had become addicted to this method in order to obtain it. I believe he became addicted to Propovol when it was used many times in a hospital or doctor's office setting through the years.

No one killed Michael Jackson but Dr. Murray. It is his inept hands that have blood on them imo.

imo

[Poochie Pie]

I also agree, Poochie. In fact I believe MJ had much to live for and renewed hopes and dreams that were in his grasp and coming true.

He certainly knew like the ones that observed him in his last rehearsal that he still had what it took to mesmerize his fan base and beyond.

He was looking forward to his trip to the UK where he and his children would be living in Rod Stewart's mansion. Everything was already arranged and in place.

I don't believe for one second MJ wanted to die. I believe his only objective was to get some much needed sleep and he had become addicted to this method in order to obtain it. I believe he became addicted to Propovol when it was used many times in a hospital or doctor's office setting through the years.

No one killed Michael Jackson but Dr. Murray. It is his inept hands that have blood on them imo.

imo Absolutely agree, GB... "inept" would be an understatement..!! IMO

Poochie

[GentleBreeze]

On, come on who_is_it. With enough uppers one can fly like a kite for many hours. IMO, he looked like a dancing corpse in that rehearsal video.

I guess it is the individual and what they see but I certainly did not see a corpse on the tiny clip shown. I would much rather see the 100s of hours of video they have of him rather than sum him up in an edited very short version of a video. I think they saved the best for the movie and it will make this case even more tragic when they see how dynamic he was right before he passed away.

He did 11 or 12 run throughs that night and we have no clue in what order the one shown was in. It very well could have been the last routine of the night after running through the other 11 already but he looked great to me.

I also put much more weight into what the other people that were actually there saw and many of them have spoken out how they were awe struck that he still had it.

I think Michael looked better than he had in years in the rehearsal photos of him.

[GentleBreeze]

Sheesh.....the snakes just seem to be crawling out everywhere. Greed...greed...greed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/11/cbsnews_investigates/main5234202.shtml

Exclusive:Charity's Fake Link to Jackson?

CBS News has learned that a charity claiming to be affiliated with Michael Jackson has no connection to his estate.

[GentleBreeze]

Well there you go GB, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. When you dance with the white angel it eventually wears off, then you drop to the floor with a resounding THUD. The next day he was dead.

I dont know what the "white angel" is supposed to mean? Sorry.

But yes I know he was dead the next day or later in the same day since he didnt leave the center until 12:30 am when imo he was overdosed on Propovol by Dr. Murray sometime after then.

imo

[mrsmcgoo]

Why would people not admit it and what would they be investigated for or be held responsible for what? I am referring to the nurse, Lou Ferrigno, his dancers, Ken Erlich, the promoters, both of his chefs, etc. One chef (the guy that left in May) said he saw Dr Murray carrying oxygen tanks and saw MJ in surgical gear however saw no other drug use. Kai Chase the other chef that returned the early part of June said the same thing. JMO Again not saying he was not abusing drugs since I believe there were prescriptions found issued in Kai Chase's name and his son's but we don't know what the results were. Were they legitimate prescriptions for those people or were they issued in their name for MJ's use? We don't know what those prescriptions were for and haven't heard results yet. JMO

When the drugs were found at NL most of his employees spoke about it and all knew he was abusing drugs. Haven't heard that from his current staff at least not yet. JMO


I'm not picking on you honest!

But I remember reading, MJ's chef that was their the last day, her name was supposedly used. Apparently she was very shocked to learn this and had no idea prescriptions were written out to her name.

That came out about 2 weeks ago, give or take a few days.

JMO

[retiredcop]

It's called "Dancing with a White Rabbit" and that's exactly what MJ was doing.

www.csahq.org/pdf/bulletin/propofol_57_2.pdf

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Well there you go GB, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. When you dance with the white angel it eventually wears off, then you drop to the floor with a resounding THUD. The next day he was dead.


MJ may be dancing with a white angel now, but here on earth he was dancing with a white rabbit.

in my opinion

[who_is_it]

Why would people not admit it and what would they be investigated for or be held responsible for what? I am referring to the nurse, Lou Ferrigno, his dancers, Ken Erlich, the promoters, both of his chefs, etc. One chef (the guy that left in May) said he saw Dr Murray carrying oxygen tanks and saw MJ in surgical gear however saw no other drug use. Kai Chase the other chef that returned the early part of June said the same thing. JMO Again not saying he was not abusing drugs since I believe there were prescriptions found issued in Kai Chase's name and his son's but we don't know what the results were. Were they legitimate prescriptions for those people or were they issued in their name for MJ's use? We don't know what those prescriptions were for and haven't heard results yet. JMO

When the drugs were found at NL most of his employees spoke about it and all knew he was abusing drugs. Haven't heard that from his current staff at least not yet. JMO

All the people you listed as an example sound credible imo. If I were them I just would be careful and better say less than more. It's also a matter of dignity towards a passed away person not to fuel the sensational drug addict stories in the media imo.

But you're right: I also believe he didn't take drugs for a longer time.

[GentleBreeze]

I saw one of the choreographers on t,v, and he said it was hard to watch the other dancers when Michael was onstage with them because you couldn't take your eyes off of him .

I can certainly understand why. Even now when I watch his videos and he is surrounded by dancers I become so mesmerized with Michael that I don't even pay attention to them at all.

He was magnificent imo and had such an appeal.

imo

[breezie]

He sure did. An overdose that the damn doctor gave him through the IV. JMO

That doctor that he shopped for until he found one that would give him what he wanted. MJ has some blame in his own death. Not criminal blame, but blame all the same. How many doctors said no before he found this clown? You get what you pay for and he played russian roulette with his life.

[GentleBreeze]

That doctor that he shopped for until he found one that would give him what he wanted. MJ has some blame in his own death. Not criminal blame, but blame all the same. How many doctors said no before he found this clown? You get what you pay for and he played russian roulette with his life.

I don't think so. I don't imagine most doctors get paid $150K a month by one patient and if they did they would jump through hoops to make sure everything they did for their one client was done correctly right down to the smallest detail.

The only ones we know he asked was Nurse Lee and another physician before Murray came on the scene.

No, actually Murray played Russian Roulette with his patient's life and his patient paid the ultimate price for Murray's reckless and gross negligent actions.

imo

[Cindylee]

That doctor that he shopped for until he found one that would give him what he wanted. MJ has some blame in his own death. Not criminal blame, but blame all the same. How many doctors said no before he found this clown? You get what you pay for and he played russian roulette with his life.

ITA. It was just a matter of time. If not Dr. Murray, it would have been someone else. Maybe that someone else would have done a better job than Murray, however.

[Cindylee]

I don't think so. I don't imagine most doctors get paid $150K a month by one patient and if they did they would jump through hoops to make sure everything they did for their one client was done correctly right down to the smallest detail.

The only ones we know he asked was Nurse Lee and another physician before Murray came on the scene.

No, actually Murray played Russian Roulette with his patient's life and his patient paid the ultimate price for Murray's reckless and gross negligent actions.

imo

MJ knew what he was getting into. He had been warned about this drug, he still decided to take it. He must bare some of the blame. It was his choice. IMO

[who_is_it]

I saw one of the choreographers on t,v, and he said it was hard to watch the other dancers when Michael was onstage with them because you couldn't take your eyes off of him .

Hi,
his vocal trainer said so:

""He'd take the stage with this group of dancers, all in their 20s, but you couldn't take your eyes off him ... "
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

[GentleBreeze]

MJ knew what he was getting into. He had been warned about this drug, he still decided to take it. He must bare some of the blame. It was his choice. IMO

He did not know that it would kill him. Yes, he had been warned but he also knew that he had taken this type of anesthetic for years and did not die from it.

And he wouldn't have died when he did if Murray had not acted recklessly and grossly negligent when administering it, imo.

imo

[Emerald]

JMO

There is absolutely no reason if Dr Murray was negligent in some way.

If it had not been Dr. Murray, MJ would have found someone else to do it. MJ made the ultimate decision to have the procedure. That does not excuse Murray for hs own decisions.

[BOZGAL2]

MJ knew what he was getting into. He had been warned about this drug, he still decided to take it. He must bare some of the blame. It was his choice. IMO

DR M did not have to administer the drug. DR M is the one who made the choice. JMO

And may I add apparently did not know ZILCH about the drug either. JMO

[Citygirl]

MJ knew what he was getting into. He had been warned about this drug, he still decided to take it. He must bare some of the blame. It was his choice. IMO


As long as MJ had been takin serious drugs it makes me wonder if he didn't think this was the way he was gonna die..he had to know he would finally take that dose that would kill him..

[GentleBreeze]

JMO

There is absolutely no reason if Dr Murray was negligent in some way.

If it had not been Dr. Murray, MJ would have found someone else to do it. MJ made the ultimate decision to have the procedure. That does not excuse Murray for hs own decisions.

There is absolutely nothing that shows if another physician had administered the Propovol that the end results would have been the same.

MJ is dead because Murray was reckless and negligent in the way he administered and monitored his patient while he had him on Propovol.

imo

[Emerald]

There is absolutely nothing that shows if another physician had administered the Propovol that the end results would have been the same.

MJ is dead because Murray was reckless and negligent in the way he administered and monitored his patient while he had him on Propovol.

imo

Where is the evidence that propofol could safely be administered in the way it was to MJ? There have been reports MJ was shopping for the drug and someone to administer it.

I don't give Dr. Murray a pass for his negligence.

MJ was not forced to have the drug administered. He did it willingly.

There have also been reports MJ had ingested other drugs of which Dr. Murray may not have been aware. We just don't know yet.

BTW.... I'm a HUGE fan of MJ's talent.

[flipflop]

Where is the evidence that propofol could safely be administered in the way it was to MJ? There have been reports MJ was shopping for the drug and someone to administer it.

I don't give Dr. Murray a pass for his negligence.

MJ was not forced to have the drug administered. He did it willingly.

There have also been reports MJ had ingested other drugs of which Dr. Murray may not have been aware. We just don't know yet.

BTW.... I'm a HUGE fan of MJ's talent.

I am a big fan too. But to me, my opinion, my view is....it shouldn't have mattered how many times MJ asked for it. Shouldn't matter how many people he begged, promised money, sang songs for..whatever. NO ONE should have agreed to do it. Ever. And whoever administered the diprivan should be held responsible. :smile:

[who_is_it]

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2009-08-14-jackson-branca_N.htm?csp=34

In 1997 a will was drafted for Jackson — but not, Branca says, by him. Instead, he said he assigned it to a member of his firm who specialized in wills and trusts. It was redone in 2002, after the birth of Jackson's third child.

Branca said he played no role in advising Jackson on the will, but knew the singer did not want a family member in control of his estate. Jackson also felt he did not have to take care of his brothers and sisters, Branca said.

I totally believe this.

[Firehead11]

Since we do not have any reports from the LE investigating this CRIME, I refuse to say that MJ had a lot of drugs in his system. We do not have the autopsy or tox report. The facts AS reported:
1. was that MJ was found to be unresponsive with an IV line inserted into his vein for a drug to be administered.
2.This doctor was with him for a month. He had to have known his prior history all due to the fact that your system builds up a tolence to many things. MAYBE this drug is the same thing. It would take more and more to put MJ under.
3. This doctor was NOT trained to use this drug AT ALL.
4. This drug is NOT to be use at home but rather it should be used in a hospital type setting.
5. This doctor admits he gave MJ this drug.
6. This doctor did not call anyone or rescue for 30 MINUTES after MJ was found unresponsive.
7. This doctor accepted the responsibility to put MJ to sleep. He should have said NO. As should every doctor is approached by anyone. He sold his morals and ethics for 5 grand a night.

IMO, he is responsible for Jackson's death.

As for MJ taking responsibility for his actions, he did. He is DEAD.

[Firehead11]

Ok Coldwater, you have confused me....:confused:

[tiptop]

I agree with your first paragraph...sorta....

While in this case, I believe MJ was a notorious drug addict and "Dr." Murray should have known.

Doctors shouldn't have to be detectives. ...due diligence is all that should be expected. And due diligence isn't going to stop doctor shopping. Even great doctors can be used without even knowing it...

I totally disagree with the second paragraph.

Michael Jackson had the means to pick up the phone anytime he wanted and get the help he needed. He could have went to any one of the FINEST drug rehabs in the WORLD. He did have a choice.

I agree that Michael did have a choice in that he could have attended some of the best rehabs the world has to offer. But many drug abusers dont feel they have a problem; hence the term "functioning alcoholic" (as an example). Many people go about their daily lives addicted to all sorts of things. And they feel as long as they are keeping it together in the eyes of their family and those around them, then all is well. Maybe Michael felt this way. JMO

[tiptop]

As long as there is a demand for this type thing, there will always be a supply. No matter what the penalities. I hope that Dr. Murray is punished if he is found to be guilty in aiding or abetting. But I really dont think it's going to curtail this type of activity. Money talks and there will always be a medical professional in need just waiting for the right opportunity. And perhaps like the addict, the provider feels he/she is doing nothing wrong as long as things go well. JMO

[tiptop]

I do agree about demands..however not for this drug prior to this case..Prior to MJ..there had been absolutely no other case of diprivan abuse...other than Medical peeps who chose to pilfer it and use it...There has been no Lay people, or street demand for this drug..course I am sure now that the world knows about it..there may be a demand for it???And that is why it is so important DEA investigate..and gets to the bottom of how MJ/Dr. Murray got ahold of this Aneasthetic Drug..

I also think, that Diprivan will become a controlled and counted drug from here on in....and will remain a non-perscribed drug..so it should take care of that issue..Diprivan is not carried as a stock item in any pharmacy that lay people use..so no fear of some nutbar..trying to raid/steal from any pharmacy..LOL..Now, they may get some other stuff..but NOT THIS DRUG!!

I feel certain they (LE) will be able to track how Diprivan got into Dr. Murray's hands..and the rest will follow suite..given his admissions!!

LMS

I understand what you're saying Y, but to me it's the same thing. It doesn't matter if Michael was the first or the 500th person to be in this position. Whether it's food or sex or gambling or prescription drugs; its still the same end via a different means - and that end is destruction. JMO

On a side note, I thought I recalled someone posting some links about at least two other people hooked on Diprivan. Maybe one was from Germany? lol, my mind isnt what it once was.

[GentleBreeze]

http://www.hollyscoop.com/michael-jackson/paris-jackson-struggling-to-cope-with-michael-jacksons-death_21202.aspx

Paris Jackson Struggling to Cope With Michael Jackson's Death

Michael Jackson daughter Paris is really struggling to cope with her Dad's death, and is reportedly turning to Katherine Jackson to deal with her loss.

“Paris is struggling the most since Michael’s death,” a source told Britain’s Now magazine. “She was her daddy’s girl. He was her best friend and he was so proud of her. She’s really heartbroken and she misses him so much.

“She keeps having dreams that he’s still alive, then when she wakes up and realizes he’s dead, she starts sobbing. It’s horrible. Prince Michael has been great — he’s rising to the occasion and trying to be strong, but he’s suffering too.”

[daniel green]

So far everything we've read have been about his drug abuse during and prior to his trial in 2005. We really do not have any "evidence" that he was abusing drugs recently. Not saying he wasn't -- just that there is no evidence supporting it. So far everything reported is saying that the Dr. gave him sedatives before administering the propofol.

Unlike 2005 and piror -- no one on his staff or anyone in direct contact with him the past few months says he showed any signs of drug abuse but just the opposite (other than the propofol). JMO

The warrants specifically call MJ an addict.

[tiptop]

That's really sad, GB. In the midst of all the drugs and money and BS we tend to forget about the children missing their father. They knew him like no one else. I hope they can get the support they need during this difficult time.

When questioning the name PRINCE, I was surprised to find it was the name of Michael's maternal grandfather. While it was easy to think Michael just picked an odd name, not many (including me) thought it could be a family name.

[daniel green]

snipped

When the drugs were found at NL most of his employees spoke about it and all knew he was abusing drugs. Haven't heard that from his current staff at least not yet. JMO

The police found multiple Rx bottles at MJ's rented house after his death.

Those close to him have said MJ used diprivan for the past decade. That in and of itself is enough to show end stage addiction.

[tiptop]

The police found multiple Rx bottles at MJ's rented house after his death.

Do you recall what they found?

I've been reading so much lately it all runs together. Xanax has been mentioned, hasn't it?

[daniel green]

MJ knew what he was getting into. He had been warned about this drug, he still decided to take it. He must bare some of the blame. It was his choice. IMO

That's the truth. Any doctor giving this drug to someone outside of a hospital setting is, by definition, reckless. And many, many docs gave this to MJ over the past 10 yrs.

[daniel green]

Do you recall what they found?

I've been reading so much lately it all runs together. Xanax has been mentioned, hasn't it?

Don't know what they found at the house--they always just say multiple Rxs-- but the toxicology report leaks show MULTIPLE sedatives and Xanax.

[daniel green]

Where is the evidence that propofol could safely be administered in the way it was to MJ? snipped.

It can't bet.

And MJ was playing Russian Roulette every time he took that anesthesia over 10 yrs.

Just as with someone addicted to heroin, knowing each time he/she uses it could be the time they OD and die.

[tiptop]

It can't bet.

And MJ was playing Russian Roulette every time he took that anesthesia over 10 yrs.

Just as with someone addicted to heroin, knowing each time he/she uses it could be the time they OD and die.

This touches on something I mentioned upthread. IMO yes, maybe heroin users think that ---- maybe not. But in my mind Michael gave no thought to his ritual of sedation being something that could kill him.

I've been thinking about this very thing. How could someone who loves children so much ---- and someone who has his own kids, well --- how could they risk it like he did? Many possibilities here. Maybe he didnt know. Maybe he didnt care. Maybe he thought it would never happen to him because of the amount of money he was paying out for this "quality care." And IMO the latter is what he thought.

[daniel green]

Michael Jackson's father on Friday found himself at the center of a controversy in the family's hometown of Gary, Ind., over allegations that the city paid Joe Jackson's airfare for a Jackson memorial tribute. At issue is a memorial concert last month in Gary -- home to the Jackson family childhood home where Michael Jackson grew up. There were reports over the last few days that Joe Jackson, who is now living at the family's Encino compound, received a payment to attend the concert. But the Chicago Tribune reports that Gary's mayor, Rudy Clay, strongly denies that: Records released by the city show that Joe Jackson and 1970s soul group The Chi-Lites were paid $5,000 from a fund of donations set up by Clay for the concert in the city where Michael Jackson was born and spent his early years. But Clay and The Chi-Lites say the payment was only for Joe Jackson and the band's airplane tickets from California. "Anyone who says Joe Jackson was paid to attend his son's memorial is telling the biggest lie ever told in the history of the world," Clay said. Earlier this week, Joe Jackson said he supported the idea of building a Neverland Ranch-style attraction in Las Vegas to celebrate his son's life.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/08/controversy-over-payment-joe-jackson-received-for-michael-jackson-tribute.html

Truly unbelievable.

[daniel green]

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/08/14/entertainment/e052446D61.DTL#ixzz0OCs4Ys9p

[daniel green]

http://www.wtte28.com/template/inews_wire/wires.national/3cbf1371-www.wtte.com.shtml

[who_is_it]

This touches on something I mentioned upthread. IMO yes, maybe heroin users think that ---- maybe not. But in my mind Michael gave no thought to his ritual of sedation being something that could kill him.

<snipped>


I could imagine he "excused" or played down the risks of the drug by the fact that a doctor administers it like: If a doctor gives it to me it must be safe.

[Cindylee]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/08/controversy-over-payment-joe-jackson-received-for-michael-jackson-tribute.html

Truly unbelievable.


It doesn't surprise me a bit.

[tiptop]

I could imagine he "excused" or played down the risks of the drug by the fact that a doctor administers it like: If a doctor gives it to me it must be safe.

Yes, exactly. And that coupled with I WANT IT, well - explosive combo.

I am still trying to wrap my brain around his desire for this deep sleep. I have read so much about it. He had insomnia. He heard a constant beat in his head. He just couldnt rest. I can understand the insomniac desperate for sleep. But for Michael, I think it went deeper. So many people wanting things from him. He was in debt and it seemed his family was after him a good bit for money. Kinda sad to think he needed to be knocked out so much. JMO

[Roxxanne]

Do you recall what they found?

I've been reading so much lately it all runs together. Xanax has been mentioned, hasn't it?

What I have read is Xanax and Propofol (sp).

[sunstar]

http://www.hollyscoop.com/michael-jackson/paris-jackson-struggling-to-cope-with-michael-jacksons-death_21202.aspx

Paris Jackson Struggling to Cope With Michael Jackson's Death

Michael Jackson daughter Paris is really struggling to cope with her Dad's death, and is reportedly turning to Katherine Jackson to deal with her loss.

“Paris is struggling the most since Michael’s death,” a source told Britain’s Now magazine. “She was her daddy’s girl. He was her best friend and he was so proud of her. She’s really heartbroken and she misses him so much.

“She keeps having dreams that he’s still alive, then when she wakes up and realizes he’s dead, she starts sobbing. It’s horrible. Prince Michael has been great — he’s rising to the occasion and trying to be strong, but he’s suffering too.”


The poor kids. This has to be very hard for them since they all were very close to their dad. As much as their grandmother tries to comfort them, it's still impossible to take away their pain. :crying: MOO

[sunstar]

I could imagine he "excused" or played down the risks of the drug by the fact that a doctor administers it like: If a doctor gives it to me it must be safe.

I too believe he thought that ~ and trusted doctors too much. MOO

[Roxxanne]

All I heard was Xanax and Propofol. And that was all that was "leaked" about the tox report.

Yep, that's all I've seen "leaked"!

[retiredcop]

I still don't think the doctor knew Mr Jackson swallowed God knows how many Xanax the night he died. I think Mr Jackson took them and still asked for Diprivan. I don't think the doctor would have administered the Diprivan if he knew. I don't think Mr Jackson told him either because he knew he wouldn't get the Diprivan if he did.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

This touches on something I mentioned upthread. IMO yes, maybe heroin users think that ---- maybe not. But in my mind Michael gave no thought to his ritual of sedation being something that could kill him.

I've been thinking about this very thing. How could someone who loves children so much ---- and someone who has his own kids, well --- how could they risk it like he did? Many possibilities here. Maybe he didn't know. Maybe he didn't care. Maybe he thought it would never happen to him because of the amount of money he was paying out for this "quality care." And IMO the latter is what he thought.

Because addiction is a disease.

IMO

[tiptop]

All I heard was Xanax and Propofol. And that was all that was "leaked" about the tox report.


True or not, I did read about Ativan. Lots of google hits about it:

http://www.nydailynews.com/lifestyle/health/2009/07/10/2009-07-10_why_didnt_michael_jacksons_1993_rehab_stint_wor k.html

http://www.bet.com/Specials/michaeljackson/news/michaeljackson_doctorgavejacksonsedatives_8.7.09.h tm?wbc_purpose=Basic&WBCMODE=PresentationUnpublished

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/entertainment&id=6953426

[GentleBreeze]

Yep, that's all I've seen "leaked"!

Me too and it only said traces of Xanax was found and that Murray admitted to giving MJ sedatives.

I don't think the two drugs combined would have killed him. If that were the case then it would be an accidental overdose and this investigation is way way beyond an accidental anything.

imo

[sunstar]

Me too and it only said traces of Xanax was found and that Murray admitted to giving MJ sedatives.

I don't think the two drugs combined would have killed him. If that were the case then it would be an accidental overdose and this investigation is way way beyond an accidental anything.

imo

I agree with you. How many people, for example, have had prescription medication, alcohol or whatever in their system, maybe gotten into an accident and had to undergo an emergency surgery where they'd be anesthesized ~ and lived? But during surgery in a hospital, while anesthesized they'd also be monitored with an EKG, blood pressure, and so forth. Things that seemingly didn't happen in this case ~ at home. MOO

[GentleBreeze]

Don't know what they found at the house--they always just say multiple Rxs-- but the toxicology report leaks show MULTIPLE sedatives and Xanax.

The doctors today on HLN were stating the amount of Propovol found in his home would have been about enough for him to be under around 8 hours.

imo

[Roxxanne]

The doctors today on HLN were stating the amount of Propovol found in his home would have been about enough for him to be under around 8 hours.

imo

I just wonder how long he put him out and how many times this Dr. had done it.

[GentleBreeze]

I agree with you. How many people, for example, have had prescription medication, alcohol or whatever in their system, maybe gotten into an accident and had to undergo an emergency surgery where they'd be anesthetized ~ and lived? But during surgery in a hospital, while anesthetized they'd also be monitored with an EKG, blood pressure, and so forth. Things that seemingly didn't happen in this case ~ at home. MOO

How true. People are even given narcotics before they even go under anesthesia for surgery in a hospital. So to me the Xanax is not what killed him but Murray did by overdosing him on the Propovol.

imo

[tiptop]

I just wonder how long he put him out and how many times this Dr. had done it.

Same here. Maybe it was time to renew his stash if he was only found with 8 hours worth.

Wasnt Dr Murray only onboard since May 11, or there abouts? And Michael passed on June 25th. I have wondered just how much he knew about Michael's past history and comsumption. I'm not excusing him in any way --- just wondering if he hit the ground running knowing what Michael needed and wanted. JMO

[sunstar]

I just wonder how long he put him out and how many times this Dr. had done it.
So do I ~ and I'm more interested in how many shipments Dr. M had sent there or picked up from the pharmacy, than what was found at the house. That would tell a lot more. MOO

[Roxxanne]

Same here. Maybe it was time to renew his stash if he was only found with 8 hours worth.

Wasnt Dr Murray only onboard since May 11, or there abouts? And Michael passed on June 25th. I have wondered just how much he knew about Michael's past history and comsumption. I'm not excusing him in any way --- just wondering if he hit the ground running knowing what Michael needed and wanted. JMO

I have another question that's probably known by everybody but me, but here goes. Is oxygen easy to get? I mean do you need anything special as in scrips. or Dr.'s orders?

[Cindylee]

Oh Boy, NG is on LKL tonight with Anderson Cooper. I wonder if he will ask her why when she gets something in her head, even if it is wrong, she keeps repeating it? :ohmy::laugh:

[Cindylee]

I have another question that's probably known by everybody but me, but here goes. Is oxygen easy to get? I mean do you need anything special as in scrips. or Dr.'s orders?

My dad had to get a script for it.

[GentleBreeze]

I just wonder how long he put him out and how many times this Dr. had done it.

I think we would all love to know the exact time line LE is dealing with based on the evidence they have collected thus far.

All we know is MJ rehearsed for hours and left the center around 12:30 am that morning. We have no idea when he actually wanted the Propovol so he could sleep some. I would think he would have gone home and wound down some before doing this and we have no idea how long Murray was gone or the exact time he came back to find him dead and IMO he was already dead beyond ever bringing him back when Murray finally went back in.

Who knows, Roxxane, LE may have discovered by now that Murray had ordered Propovol long before he became MJs private physician.

Hopefully when they put all the pieces together the public will know more than they do now. In fact Murray may have done this in the past with other patients and nothing happened to them so he did not monitor MJ either.

I sure would like to know if James Brown ever used this method to sleep. Brown and Michael were very close and Murray had been Brown's physician also.

imo