8/9 to 8/11

[Mamie]

I nuke my ice cream for a couple of minutes to get it a little softer - I only buy Haagen Dazs too and only the pint size! :wink:

Maybe that's my problem, I need to start getting a smaller size container of ice cream----lol. But I might try nuking it a bit to get it softer. Thanks for the tip!

[daniel green]

Me either....

Nor do I...

[Mamie]

No -- Oxman was interviewed by UK's GMTV. Jermaine said the ultimate decision was up to KJ and the article was not based on Jermaine's interview with LKL -- the US Medias' articles were based upon Jermaine's interview. As I said previously -- I have no idea what is true and honestly -- don't care - it's up to the Jacksons however I do believe they don't want to tell anyone anyway an are under no obligation to do so. JMO

True that.

[who_is_it]

LMAO! Can't argue with that. :biggrin: Cinder's correct -- it may or may not be true however what I have found since MJ's death is that the Jackson family for whatever reason talks to the UK papers not to the media here which is one of the reasons I am inclined to believe it. Having said that -- of course I have to concede I absolutely have no idea. JMO

Xenam, I'm not so sure if they REALLY always talk to the UK papers. I scrutinized the British media actions in 2006 before and after the wma awards. Most of the British tabloids belong to the same group. I dedicated quite a lot of time to understand the "who is who" in this British tabloid circus. They've kind of ganged up BEFORE the performance took place and bashed him to an extent which was awful.

A few days after Michael's death some of the British tabloids dished gross and undignified stories. Now, for example, "The Mirror" has totally changed the line. I conclude they got many complaints by their readers after the initial coverages.

There are some British tabloids which don't care if the stories are true or not. It seems they take into account to get sued... but still the sensation seems to be more profitable than the damages they pay afterwards.

One of them is the News of the world:
- successfully sued by Sienna Miller for violation of privacy
- successfully sued for libel by Max Mosley
- secret damages paid to Jo Armstrong (? whoever this is ?)
- successfully sued for libel by Jordan and Peter Andre
- successfully sued for libel by Kate Moss
- false Britney sex tape story

Furthermore the NOTW often runs stories allegedly told by "poorer" people acquainted with celebrities, for example by Isaac Cohen (former boyfriend of Britney Spears), -- and are from other countries than Great Britain and couldn't afford an international lawsuit. The astonishing thing about it is: These "poorer" people never spoke out to any other media but allegedly to the NOTW. There's another example: An ex affair of Lindsay Lohan who's Italian and has no celebrity status.

By all this I conclude it's NOT proved that the Jackson family REALLY speaks to these British sources or at least maybe not every word which is printed!

[Mamie]

The Jacksons talk to the UK media -- none of them are speaking about MJ's burial however any media interviews given by them have been with the UK other than Jermaine and frankly I think Jermaine is out of the loop. JMO


Also if MJ is in the private section of Forest Lawn -- the cemetary will not give out the info either:

Secret burial

In some very rare cases, a person will be buried without identification, even when their identity is known. In some cases of infamous or notorious figures, this is to avoid desecration of the corpse or vandalism of the site. In others it may be for exactly the opposite reason. Famous graves often become tourist attractions, or destinations of pilgrimage. To avoid this the family or friends honoring the dead might bury them in an unpublicized place, a secret location, or in a grave with a false name — or no name at all — on the marker.

Some burial sites at Forest Lawn, such as those of Humphrey Bogart and Mary Pickford, are secluded in private gated gardens, with no entry for the public. A number of tombs are also kept from the public eye. Forest Lawn's Court of Honour advertises that in some of the crypts beneath it are spots which no amount of money can buy, but individuals may be "voted in" as "Immortals." Out of respect for the privacy of the dead, no photographs taken at Forest Lawn are ever allowed to be published, and their information office usually refuses to say where famous people are buried.

http://www.deardeath.com/special_burials.htm

Thanks for the site, but still no proof that the Jacksons talk to the UK media which is what I think I asked a few posts ago. Guess we'll never quite know until we see a letter in print, signed and dated by a Jackson family member or see an actual live recent film clip. I don't think Jermaine is out of the loop----why do you? JMO

[GentleBreeze]

I read something on another message board totally unrelated to MJ., but I am posting her comment it is pretty much how I feel about how MJ lived his life.

" Every single person has a choice. Our virtue or our character is not dependent upon the amount of money that we have--far from it---but each and everyone of us has a choice.

Not that this removes from me at least my sense of empathy and compassion towards those with less than I have or that I do not have responsibility towards my fellow man.

At the same time, I have come to the conclusion that it is pity not empathy and compassion that makes us think that some individuals are victims. Making people into victims removes from them the ability to make changes."

This person was talking about something else, but with MJ always talking about his abusive childhood, and never moving past that, he made himself a victim, and he couldn't make changes. IMO

He only talked about it because he was asked about it over and over and he was honest and respectful so he answered what they wanted to know.

I think every human being on earth has made bad choices in their lives. I also believe that most have also made some very good choices and this certainly included Michael Jackson.

How someone overcomes adversity or doesn't..... depends on the individual person and really doesn't have anything to do with how much money they have or don't, but how deeply they feel their pain and if they are strong enough to get beyond that pain. Sometime they are...sometimes they never do.

He didn't make himself a victim, his father made him one and those who were determined to ridicule him and make him feel like an outcast. Imo, Michael's pain did not just end when he was no longer under Joe Jackson's roof...the victimization kept coming in various ways.

So it wasn't simply getting over his childhood and searching for the childhood he never had, He was not able to get over the repeated hurt he felt from many others. He was a prime candidate to become addicted to drugs, where for a little while, it would numb that pain he felt in his wounded heart.

I do think MJ made drastic changes. He stopped the abuse in its tracks and made sure that each and everyday of his children's lives they knew they were loved and cherished by their father.

imo

[Rayosunshine]

ACK. That is rather extreme.

Yes, some would think it is rather extreme to want to see Dr. Murray nailed to a cross, but where I am coming from, it isn't.

[Rayosunshine]

I did not realize till today that MJ had not toured since 1997. :ohmy:

Wow, that is a long time (not that I would notice, since I'm not really into MJ, though don't mind seeing him perform when it happens)

What do you think he was doing for the last 12 years - good grief that is a long time!

[Rayosunshine]

I didn't know Elvis's doctor was acquitted of all prescription charges in his death. I had thought it was posted on here he was found guilty. It's very hard to convict a doctor.

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/11/05/us/presley-s-doctor-acquitted-on-all-prescription-charges.html

in my opinion\\

I'd think it's very hard to convict a doctor, because, as in these cases you would have to have a doctor/doctors as expert witnesses who agree to testify on the part of wrongdoing/less than acceptable standard of care. It's know as the "good old boy network". I cared for a retired pathologist years ago and she told me that the joke among seniors in medical school was that when they graduated they would have their M.D. (Medical Diety)!

[GentleBreeze]

Wow, that is a long time (not that I would notice, since I'm not really into MJ, though don't mind seeing him perform when it happens)

What do you think he was doing for the last 12 years - good grief that is a long time!

Spending the 85 million he had coming in yearly?

The 12 years would encompass his time with his children since Prince is 12 years old.

I would love nothing more than to see him perform again.

imo

[CinderL.]

He only talked about it because he was asked about it over and over and he was honest and respectful so he answered what they wanted to know.

I think every human being on earth has made bad choices in their lives. I also believe that most have also made some very good choices and this certainly included Michael Jackson.

How someone overcomes adversity or doesn't..... depends on the individual person and really doesn't have anything to do with how much money they have or don't, but how deeply they feel their pain and if they are strong enough to get beyond that pain. Sometime they are...sometimes they never do.

He didn't make himself a victim, his father made him one and those who were determined to ridicule him and make him feel like an outcast. Imo, Michael's pain did not just end when he was no longer under Joe Jackson's roof...the victimization kept coming in various ways.

So it wasn't simply getting over his childhood and searching for the childhood he never had, He was not able to get over the repeated hurt he felt from many others. He was a prime candidate to become addicted to drugs, where for a little while, it would numb that pain he felt in his wounded heart.

I do think MJ made drastic changes. He stopped the abuse in its tracks and made sure that each and everyday of his children's lives they knew they were loved and cherished by their father.

imo

I don't know how to bold what I want to reply to.....but as I have said, millions of people have had it much worse than MJ. He chose to be a victim.

From your post:

"He didn't make himself a victim, his father made him one and those who were determined to ridicule him and make him feel like an outcast. Imo, Michael's pain did not just end when he was no longer under Joe Jackson's roof...the victimization kept coming in various ways."

Joe may have abused him but MJ chose to be the perpetual victim. A lot of MJ's victimization he brought on himself. By the constant surgeries, the allegations of child abuse, when he knew he needed to change his behavior, and didn't. He wasn't a child, he KNEW what people were saying about him. If it was so horrendous to him, he would have found help and changed the behavior.

[GentleBreeze]

I don't know how to bold what I want to reply to.....but as I have said, millions of people have had it much worse than MJ. He chose to be a victim.

From your post:

"He didn't make himself a victim, his father made him one and those who were determined to ridicule him and make him feel like an outcast. Imo, Michael's pain did not just end when he was no longer under Joe Jackson's roof...the victimization kept coming in various ways."

Joe may have abused him but MJ chose to be the perpetual victim. A lot of MJ's victimization he brought on himself. By the constant surgeries, the allegations of child abuse, when he knew he needed to change his behavior, and didn't. He wasn't a child, he KNEW what people were saying about him. If it was so horrendous to him, he would have found help and changed the behavior.

No, the truth is how many surgeries he had or didnt have shouldnt have been anyone's business in the first place and it certainly didnt give anyone the right to demean and ridicule him. Just like no one had the right to make fun of his vitiligo.

We do not know what Michael Jackson endured for us to rate his pain among others. An emotional abuse doesnt have to leave bruises to leave emotional scars that never heal. By your premise Cinder people who have had horrible things happen to them would all come out equally the same. The human spirit is not a cookie mold. So many factors come into play that determines what the outcome will be. It wasnt just the childhood abuses, imo.

Imo MJ had no one to take him in his arms and assure him they would be there with him through thick and thin, no matter what, without any strings attached to his money. He had been used by so many others including his own flesh and blood he distrusted everyone and their intentions.

imo

[flipflop]

I read something on another message board totally unrelated to MJ., but I am posting her comment it is pretty much how I feel about how MJ lived his life.

" Every single person has a choice. Our virtue or our character is not dependent upon the amount of money that we have--far from it---but each and everyone of us has a choice.

Not that this removes from me at least my sense of empathy and compassion towards those with less than I have or that I do not have responsibility towards my fellow man.

At the same time, I have come to the conclusion that it is pity not empathy and compassion that makes us think that some individuals are victims. Making people into victims removes from them the ability to make changes."

This person was talking about something else, but with MJ always talking about his abusive childhood, and never moving past that, he made himself a victim, and he couldn't make changes. IMO

I agree with a lot of your posts about letting MJ assume responsibility for his choices. He was an adult. He was capable of making his own decisions.

And although I think some of the events in his life molded the path his choices took... he still had the option to pick an alternate route. Plain and simple. Michael Jackson woke up every single day and consciously made a decision to take drugs...or not. Each time someone gave him diprivan, he chose to allow it....or not

His "abuse" certainly isn't the worst case I have heard of. Many less fortunate children are raised in far worse conditions and have overcome the burden of their childhood. However, events affect people differently. Childbirth practically kills some women and others say it didn't hurt that bad. Or the couple who recently jumped off a cliff, wrought with grief, after the death of their son. Millions of parents have lost their children and were able to carry on. They were not.

It isn't up to me to interpret how deeply MJ's childhood affected him. Apparently, it was something he just couldn't move past. I think he could have benefited greatly from some kind of therapy. Maybe he did receive counseling, I don't know. Or maybe his outlet was drugs.

What bothers me is that no one who truly cared about him was able to get through to him. And the fact that most were out to take advantage, financially of a mentally broken man.

moo

[who_is_it]

I don't know how to bold what I want to reply to.....but as I have said, millions of people have had it much worse than MJ. He chose to be a victim.

<snipped>



All addicts are victims of their disease. Addiction isn't something which could be ended by will power. In previous discussions many links about the nature of addiction were posted by others.

Michael made wrong choices..., yes. At around 1:48 in the interview Michael says everything off stage is new to him and he has to learn many things like friendship.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lao3_sB0_nY

What these experiences are concerned he never could catch up with someone of his age imo. I don't wonder he made wrong choices. He didn't learn at an earlier age to distinguish between good and bad people.

Besides aggressive people less often become victims than defensive people. I've never seen Michael acting or speaking aggressively.

[flipflop]

an addiction is really not a matter of choice.

anyone that does not hide the fact that they were abused and actually talks about it also gets very nasty reactions from some that are inclined to take advantage of and abuse others.

I think Michael Jackson got more nasty reactions than anybody else you are comparing him to - just because he was such a great artist and so famous for his music. More than anyone could deal with alone. imo

In my opinion, continuing your addiction is a matter of choice. I am addicted to cigarettes. They are killing me, literally. But I still have the choice to light one up or not. Some people quit with no help at all..others need someone to practically quit for them.

I do understand addiction. Not just cigarettes. But you always have a choice.

[February]

Yes, some would think it is rather extreme to want to see Dr. Murray nailed to a cross, but where I am coming from, it isn't.


He is not fit to be a physician, he broke his oath as a healer.
As for nailing him to a cross, that would be an insult to Jesus.

Just revoke his license to practice and give him some jail time.

[February]

I'd be really surprised, given the time since MJ's death, if there will be any evidence still in existence. I would expect that a huge amount of paper trail has mysteriously disappeared.


They have his hard drive, his office files, and as of today his prescription records.
No way he is out of the woods. This is Michael Jackson, someone is going to go down. There are too many law enforcement officials involved at the tax payers expense.

[aproudmom]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but what does Jermaine's interview with LK have to do with MJ being buried already or not buried yet? I don't believe MJ has been buried yet. JMO

See I disagree I think he has..and his mother was very worried so I really doubt we will know anytime soon this place he is at is very secure and unmarked plus his GM is there but who know that is JMO

[aproudmom]

I would like to think that you're correct but Geez think of Elvis. No-one supplied anything for the King. So they said. Or to a lesser extent, Anna Nicole Smith. Until the authorities tighten up the ability of these 'doctors' to prescribe these drugs, the rich and famous will continue to get what they want.

I mean this 'dipravin'. That's the anaesthetic I think. Wouldn't the chemist filling the prescriptions have heard sirens screaming in his/her head that this was dodgy? I think the authorities have to go after the pharmacists as well.

I think it will continue..I wish I could say I thought it wouldn't but I see poor people getting the crap on the streets well not that sleeping drug..and if they make it harder on them who knows they may turn to illegal drugs like Billy M which totally shocked me and broke my heart to hear I would never have thought it..jmo

[giraffe]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/12/blanket-s-girl-next-door-mum-115875-21590667/

The surrogate mother of Michael Jackson's seven-year-old son Blanket is a Mexican nurse named Helena.

As several people come forward to claim parenthood over the King of Pop's three children, the Mirror has discovered the truth behind the birth of his youngest.

Despite rumours about who fathered the boy, we can reveal Jackson is his biological dad.

Blanket, real name Prince Michael Jackson II, was born on February 21, 2002 at the Sharp Grossmont Hospital in La Mesa, near San Diego in Southern California.

Now it can be revealed his mother was a pretty latino nurse who Jackson personally selected.

Jacko paid Helena a $20,000 surrogacy fee to have his child and lavished her with gifts, generous expenses and staff to see to her needs.

[aproudmom]

They have his hard drive, his office files, and as of today his prescription records.
No way he is out of the woods. This is Michael Jackson, someone is going to go down. There are too many law enforcement officials involved at the tax payers expense.

agree you can't get rid of everything plus if he told them he gave him this drug something will go down..jmo