Husband of wrong way driver says she didn't drive drunk

[sinagua]

I can't find this topic, so please combine this if it is elsewhere.

Diane Schuler is the NY driver that killed 8 people (including herself), when entered the freeway, going the wrong way.

Toxicology reports showed her BAL to be at twice the legal level and she was high on mj.

Now, her family says that she drank very minimally and could not have been drunk.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/juli-charkes/who-to-believe-in-diane-s_b_253854.html

[taylor63]

I think this poor guy is in denial big time. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8268313&page=1

[Lavinia]

I have been following this story. I don't know WHAT to think. I DO think the husband is in major denial, but I don't blame him if what he says is true. Do you think she had been a closet alcoholic or what? Even if she did have a medical condition, NO medical condition puts alcohol and weed in your system. That poor husband will NEVER know what exactly happened, I don't think. I'm so sorry for ALL the families.

[taylor63]

I have been following this story. I don't know WHAT to think. I DO think the husband is in major denial, but I don't blame him if what he says is true. Do you think she had been a closet alcoholic or what? Even if she did have a medical condition, NO medical condition puts alcohol and weed in your system. That poor husband will NEVER know what exactly happened, I don't think. I'm so sorry for ALL the families.

I have been following it too, and from all I have read I do think it's possible she was a closet alcoholic. As far as her having a medical condition, as I understand it, she had diabetes when she was pregnant, but from what I have read of gestational diabetes it almost always goes away after her pregnancy. I think she probably had a drinking problem no one in the family knew about. I also feel very sad for her family and everyone who lost their loved ones that day.

[flareon]

I think this poor guy is in denial big time. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8268313&page=1

I don't know. According to reports they found a broken vodka bottle in her car. Now, they would have just had this on the camping trip but it does look somewhat suspicious.

[dgfred]

Really the answer you would expect from the husband... even if he knew otherwise. Shed some doubt to hopefully avoid the pile of lawsuits headed his way.

[taylor63]

I don't know. According to reports they found a broken vodka bottle in her car. Now, they would have just had this on the camping trip but it does look somewhat suspicious.

I guess that was the bottle she was drinking from. It's hard to believe anyone could jeopardize the life of their own children like that.

[taylor63]

Really the answer you would expect from the husband... even if he knew otherwise. Shed some doubt to hopefully avoid the pile of lawsuits headed his way.

It does make you wonder.

[Lavinia]

I have been following it too, and from all I have read I do think it's possible she was a closet alcoholic. As far as her having a medical condition, as I understand it, she had diabetes when she was pregnant, but from what I have read of gestational diabetes it almost always goes away after her pregnancy. I think she probably had a drinking problem no one in the family knew about. I also feel very sad for her family and everyone who lost their loved ones that day.

Yeah Taylor it is my understanding that, gest. diabetes almost always resolves at the birth of the child/ren or a few days later. Even if she was the RARE exception, it would be way most likely that she would be a Type 2 diabetic, not requiring insulin. (I had insulin dependent gest. diabetes on one of my pgs. and had OB/gyn patients also.) A covert drinking problem is all I can come up with so far, but WOW, what a secret!

[Lavinia]

I don't know, could be a false positive on the toxicology report too

(What explains the vodka bottle with her?) They would re-run that test like dogs to rule out a false positive on such a serious matter, IMO. The ME would NOT let that by with all that is on line for these families now. MOO. I believe the test and I believe she had it in her. I'm just curious if this was a habit, or some odd thing she did, and if not a habit, why?

[flareon]

I guess that was the bottle she was drinking from. It's hard to believe anyone could jeopardize the life of their own children like that.

I know, but I have seen people do it. But like I said, the broken bottle may not have anything to do with her blood alcohol level. How old was her surviving child or any other survivors? They should be able to say whether she was drinking anything.

[Leanne Weich]

I know, but I have seen people do it. But like I said, the broken bottle may not have anything to do with her blood alcohol level. How old was her surviving child or any other survivors? They should be able to say whether she was drinking anything.

I heard on tv that the surviving son is 5 y.o.

[Lavinia]

"Suffolk County Child protective Services has opened a formal investigation to learn how much Daniel Schuler knew about his wife's drinking and marijuana use the day of the Taconic State Parkway crash that killed eight, three sources close to the probe said."





http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/daniel-schuler-subject-of-suffolk-cps-probe-sources-say-1.1355949

I sure hope this shines light on it.

[taylor63]

They'll have to prove that the husband knew she was high.

Also, the other family is meeting with the D.A. which means they're considering a criminal prosecution against someone. Since she's dead, I'm not sure who they can prosecute and for what? :confused:

imo

I don't understand that either,are they trying to imply the husband knows something more then he's telling? From what I understand, he did say she was a casual drinker, but that was it.

How was he supposed to know she was going to get drunk, get behind the wheel of her car, and kill 7 innocent people, including her own children and nieces? It's so tragic and heartbreaking for all involved, and I do understand the other's families anger and grief.

I can't say what I would do if I had lost a loved one in such a horrific situation because I have never been there and pray I never will.

But I do know this young man has just lost his wife and child and I am sure if he loved them he like he said he did he is grieving just as much as the other families.

I guess I just wish everyone involved would step back and at least give themselves and others involved in this terrible tragedy a time to grieve, and mourn their losses before getting lawyers involved.

[ABC]

(What explains the vodka bottle with her?) They would re-run that test like dogs to rule out a false positive on such a serious matter, IMO. The ME would NOT let that by with all that is on line for these families now. MOO. I believe the test and I believe she had it in her. I'm just curious if this was a habit, or some odd thing she did, and if not a habit, why?
Blood Alcohol tests don't do positive or negative. They give a reading as amount of alcohol in the blood. There is an alcohol level available in the brain matter. I too believe the reading. This business of doing two or three autopsies or redoing testing until folks get the result they want needs to stop, in my opinion.

[daniel green]

Blood Alcohol tests don't do positive or negative. They give a reading and the alcohol level is also available in the brain matter. I too believe the reading. This business of doing two or three autopsies or redoing testing until folks get the result they want needs to stop, in my opinion.

You are absolutely right, ABC.

And that alcohol test was done from blood, which is very precise.

[flareon]

One survivor. Her 5 y/o son who is critical. :sad:

Oh, that's not going to be much help. Thanks for the information.

[flareon]

I heard on tv that the surviving son is 5 y.o.

Thank you. I imagine the only information they will have will be the campground people.

[ABC]

You are absolutely right, ABC.

And that alcohol test was done from blood, which is very precise.
I read that this woman had undigested alcohol in her stomach, too.

[daniel green]

"Suffolk County Child protective Services has opened a formal investigation to learn how much Daniel Schuler knew about his wife's drinking and marijuana use the day of the Taconic State Parkway crash that killed eight, three sources close to the probe said."

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/daniel-schuler-subject-of-suffolk-cps-probe-sources-say-1.1355949

Ahhhhhhhhh. Maybe that's what sparked his press conference. thx

[Lady_Jean_La]

I read that this woman had undigested alcohol in her stomach, too.
She was an alcoholic and some are in denial. Give it time. imo

[Details]

I just wonder - IF the husband, and family, are being honest - it would be quite a stretch to think she's that bad of an alcoholic, to drink that huge quantity of alcohol - and never show a sign of it that they saw. Secret lives are possible - but this seems to go beyond probability, to be that heavy of a drinker, but in control when family is around.

IF that's the case - it's either family is mislead - OR - something really dire in the line of a setup. Hard to believe either of those. Maybe some really extreme blowup they aren't admitting happened? I don't buy a bad toxicology report, not with the bottle in the car and the booze in the stomach.

[forensicfan]

NG asked last night how they determine blood alcohol levels in a person's system and it is not just a simple blood test. They take tissue samples of liver and brain and they draw eye fluid and urine as well as blood.

I find it hard to believe all those tests were false readings. Then there is a the bottle of Absolute in the car. I wonder if any pieces of the mouth of the bottle or if any liquid remained where they could test for saliva. I doubt it since there was a fire.

Also, there was the marijuana found in her system. High levels apparently indicating that she had smoked within an hour of the crash. I know marijuana stays in the body for a long time but I think the levels can be measured well enough to tell if it was recently ingested.

I do feel for her husband. He may not have known she had a drinking problem. My own husband is a recovering alcoholic and had gone to rehab more than once. After the first time, I thought he was doing fine until I found hidden bottles around the house and you would think that KNOWING that he had a problem that I would have been able to tell right away that he had gone back to drinking but I didn't until I found those hidden bottles. He said he would wait until I was sleeping or would sneak a drink while I was doing stuff around the house. She may have drank while he was at work and it's very typical of a closet drinker to drink vodka because its odor is not very pungent.

Does anyone know if she was the only adult on the trip?

[daniel green]

How many children was this woman driving in her car at the time of the horrific accident?

[daniel green]

I think so. IMO the other family is going to try and sue him civilly and CPS is going to try and take the baby away.

So he's being pre-emptive. :sad:

That makes sense. I had no idea why he would do that press conference yesterday, and be so angry like that.

Thx for the info--I had not heard.

[SavannahStar]

I think so. IMO the other family is going to try and sue him civilly and CPS is going to try and take the baby away.

So he's being pre-emptive.

:ohmy: This is what just makes me sick!!! Why would they try to sue that poor man? He should be responsible for what his wife did????? And....try to take the baby away?????????? :ohmy:

:cursing:

[jaxback]

How many children was this woman driving in her car at the time of the horrific accident?

Five. Her own two, and three nieces. Her son is the only survivor.

[airportwoman]

I don't know, could be a false positive on the toxicology report too

Okay, haven't read the whole thread, but the autopsy report said that there was undigested alcohol in her stomach (and believe me, that's a definite indicator of recent - as in SECONDS - alcohol use because alcohol can be absorbed without digestion) and THC was found in her system.

I also wonder if the children had measurable THC levels themselves.

[n/t]

I can't imagine the horror and the nightmare this family is going through and the family of the other victims.

Mom and daughter are dead, 3 beautiful nieces and 3 other men.

So incredibly sad. :crying:

[Leanne Weich]

:ohmy: This is what just makes me sick!!! Why would they try to sue that poor man? He should be responsible for what his wife did????? And....try to take the baby away?????????? :ohmy:

:cursing:

I don't agree with suing the husband although, legally, I guess a case could be made if he knew she had a drinking problem and allowed her to leave the campsite intoxicated. As far as the other child is concerned, if what I stated above is fact, he certainly shows an incredible lack of care to allow a drunk person to drive off with his children (exacerbated perhaps because he is a LEO). JMHO.

[doctor_J]

I read that this woman had undigested alcohol in her stomach, too.
Yes the link I read said she had 6 gms of undigested alcohol in her stomach, which would prove she was actively drinking while driving, not just before. Also, they not only check blood and urine alcohol levels at autopsy in a case like these, involving fatalities, but cerebrospinal fluid, liver and brain tissue levels and levels in the aqueous humor (most accurate). With 8 people dead and certainly lawsuits in the works, they won't rely on just one test or even one lab. No chance of a mix-up in the lab with other samples or just a false negative.

The husband is probably simply making an attempt to salvage something of his wife's memory. Her THC level was very high and showed intake had to have been within the hour prior to death. Unlikely she smoked dope alone, but possilbe. Impossible to cover the smell though. Could be he's just trying to avoid some kind of criminal or civil liability. I see CPS is investigating, no doubt to see if dad, aunt and/uncle knowingly put their kids at risk.

Even sadder is the fact that even if the adult relatives did not know (which I doubt) the children almost certainly did. Hard to keep the vodka bottle and the drunken behaviour hidden from the kids in a car, depending of course, on their ages.

[airportwoman]

I guess that was the bottle she was drinking from. It's hard to believe anyone could jeopardize the life of their own children like that.

A few years ago in my region, an elementary school principal, her auto mechanic husband, and their two grade-school aged children drowned when their van ran off the road into a pond in heavy fog.

It was a huge story around here, and disappeared from the news to the point where you cannot find ANY evidence of it online when it turned out that both parents had BACs along the lines of 0.25. It was impossible to determine who was driving.

In other words, those two precious children were murdered.

The wife may well have been able to hide her alcoholism if her husband had a job where he traveled a lot or worked very long and/or unusual hours. Not all alcoholics and/or drug addicts use every day.

[airportwoman]

I don't agree with suing the husband although, legally, I guess a case could be made if he knew she had a drinking problem and allowed her to leave the campsite intoxicated. As far as the other child is concerned, if what I stated above is fact, he certainly shows an incredible lack of care to allow a drunk person to drive off with his children (exacerbated perhaps because he is a LEO). JMHO.

She may not have been drunk or high when she left, and maybe she thought the kids couldn't tell anyone what she had been doing because they were so young? Or they wouldn't have known it was wrong because their own parents (I'm referring to the nieces) did it too? Who knows?

[SavannahStar]

I think there is something called third party negligence in a drunk driving case.

They want to see how much he knew about her drinking that day.

imo


I dunno. Still.

Well 99% of the time I am totally against civil suits. And this would be one. America is WAY too sue-happy for my liking.

This poor man....

[ABC]

I just wonder - IF the husband, and family, are being honest - it would be quite a stretch to think she's that bad of an alcoholic, to drink that huge quantity of alcohol - and never show a sign of it that they saw. Secret lives are possible - but this seems to go beyond probability, to be that heavy of a drinker, but in control when family is around.

IF that's the case - it's either family is mislead - OR - something really dire in the line of a setup. Hard to believe either of those. Maybe some really extreme blowup they aren't admitting happened? I don't buy a bad toxicology report, not with the bottle in the car and the booze in the stomach.
I think that maybe no one has seen this woman sober in a long time and her behavior when drunk is her "normal" behavior to them. I don't think anyone is a secret drinker. You can smell it, vodka too, see the eyes, the uncoordinated movements and sloppy slurred speach. Any one who has ten drinks in a short time is drunk for sure and as it was early AM, maybe she was half drunk from the night before. It is obvious to me that her brother knew something was UP and was concerned enough to call the police. This is so tragic. Those poor children.:rose:

[Lady_Jean_La]

only if he knew she was drinking heavily before she loaded up the five kids and let her go would he be responsible

Doesn't the owner of the car have some responsibility?

[ish]

A few years ago in my region, an elementary school principal, her auto mechanic husband, and their two grade-school aged children drowned when their van ran off the road into a pond in heavy fog.

It was a huge story around here, and disappeared from the news to the point where you cannot find ANY evidence of it online when it turned out that both parents had BACs along the lines of 0.25. It was impossible to determine who was driving.

In other words, those two precious children were murdered.

The wife may well have been able to hide her alcoholism if her husband had a job where he traveled a lot or worked very long and/or unusual hours. Not all alcoholics and/or drug addicts use every day.

Very possible she was a binge drinker. I heard two different stories as to what happened that morning. First one that her husband had left from the campsite to go fishing and she took the kids to Mickey D's for breakfast and then on home. Is it possible she was pizzed he was extending his vacation while she had to lug the kiddies to Mickey's and then home? Maybe that sent her on a binge, perhaps they can fnd a liquor store on the route and see if she purchased anything. The other story is that dad took the family dog and left for home earlier that morning. Maybe her having to drive 5 small kids home on a long drive set her off. I would like to know what the daughter told her brother when the driver called him to say she was ill. They found they phone on the side of the road. Tragic any way it happened, but if the hubby admits he had a clue she was a drinker, he could lose everything in a lawsuit. Not just from his in laws who lost their kids, but the other 3 victims family. This is a mess.!!

[SavannahStar]

I do not know how that works when a spouse commits a crime in a car, is the other spouse responsible if they knew nothing about it?

Yeh I don't get THAT mindset at all.

To me, there is only ONE person at fault here. And she's dead. Period.

[n/t]

no, they won't.

They will sue her insurance company and her estate and all they have to prove is that she was at fault.

The husband can deflect all he wants but the likelihood of a false positive for both weed and booze is pretty hard to calculate.

I'm sure she was higher than a kite but I don't get why CPS is involved and why this man could lose custody of his only surviving son? That doesn't make sense to me.

I agree that likelihood of collecting insurance and her estate is at stake, perhaps, but taking his son away from him?

She was an adult and sadly her stupid choice to drink and drive cost her own life and 7 other innocent victims. Why is the husband and son being punished for that?

[Lady_Jean_La]

I do not know how that works when a spouse commits a crime in a car, is the other spouse responsible if they knew nothing about it?In my state the owner of the vehicle has some responsibility. I assume the vehicle was jointly owned. imo

[SavannahStar]

I'm sure she was higher than a kite but I don't get why CPS is involved and why this man could lose custody of his only surviving son? That doesn't make sense to me.

I agree that likelihood of collecting insurance and her estate is at stake, perhaps, but taking his son away from him?

She was an adult and sadly her stupid choice to drink and drive cost her own life and 7 other innocent victims. Why is the husband and son being punished for that?


I couldn't have said it better myself. :thumbsup:

Seems I recall disagreeing with you vehemently on another case but on THIS one we agree 100%. Just the idea of "punishing" that poor man for what his wife did is repugnant to me. :mad:

[Pat]

Before I pass judgment on the husband, I'll wait until all the details of what he knew and when he knew, are in.

If he knew she'd been drinking and using, he's as culpable as she was. Doesn't matter how much...even a single swig from the bottle.

I am of the thought there will be much more about this family that will come out in the days to come.

[SavannahStar]

Before I pass judgment on the husband, I'll wait until all the details of what he knew and when he knew, are in.

If he knew she'd been drinking and using, he's as culpable as she was. Doesn't matter how much...even a single swig from the bottle.

I am of the thought there will be much more about this family that will come out in the days to come.


I'll just NEVER agree that someone who "knew" is as culpable as the person who actually did the crime. Never. My own two cents: personal responsibility is the bottom line.

[Jester]

I'm sure she was higher than a kite but I don't get why CPS is involved and why this man could lose custody of his only surviving son? That doesn't make sense to me.

I agree that likelihood of collecting insurance and her estate is at stake, perhaps, but taking his son away from him?

She was an adult and sadly her stupid choice to drink and drive cost her own life and 7 other innocent victims. Why is the husband and son being punished for that?

I think the problem is that she was with 9 other adults before she left the campsite, and someone should have stopped her from driving after smoking pot and drinking. Of course, the converse argument is that she drank and smoked pot after leaving the campsite, presumably with the children in the car.

[n/t]

I'll just NEVER agree that someone who "knew" is as culpable as the person who actually did the crime. Never. My own two cents: personal responsibility is the bottom line.

LOL..here you go. Now we have to disagree again.

If the husband knew she was drunk and let her drive with 5 kids in the car, he is just as guilty as she is. He could've stopped her. Called the cops on her right then and there before she got behind the wheel of that car.

However, if she hid the bottle from him or picked up a bottle of vodka on her way home and started drinking in the car and he knew nothing about it then I have to say he should not be held responsible.

[trigger]

I think this whole thing will be settled if they ever find her buying liquor. They can trace her credit card...possibly stopped by someones house and bought marijuana. Alos they will be releasing the 911 calls soon. 4hr drive from camp site to location of the auto accident is to long..it should only take one hour.

[n/t]

I think the problem is that she was with 9 other adults before she left the campsite, and someone should have stopped her from driving after smoking pot and drinking. Of course, the converse argument is that she drank and smoked pot after leaving the campsite, presumably with the children in the car.

Right. I have to believe that 9 other adults would not let this woman drive intoxicated. But then again, we haven't heard everything yet. There's a reason why CPS is investigating. Maybe there's more to this story than we know or they're just doing their job.

I wish they were just as vigilant in checking on other cases as well but alas, that's for another day, another topic.

[SavannahStar]

LOL..here you go. Now we have to disagree again.

If the husband knew she was drunk and let her drive with 5 kids in the car, he is just as guilty as she is. He could've stopped her. Called the cops on her right then and there before she got behind the wheel of that car.

However, if she hid the bottle from him or picked up a bottle of vodka on her way home and started drinking in the car and he knew nothing about it then I have to say he should not be held responsible.

I thought "knew" was meant as in "knew" she drank. Not as in he "knew" she was drunk and getting in the car to drive with those kids.

But even then I do not think his culpability should rise to the level of hers.

[Lavinia]

Blood Alcohol tests don't do positive or negative. They give a reading as amount of alcohol in the blood. There is an alcohol level available in the brain matter. I too believe the reading. This business of doing two or three autopsies or redoing testing until folks get the result they want needs to stop, in my opinion.

I understand. I used the term positive to say it wouldn't show as alcohol if it were another substance.

[AZCHARGED]

Try thinking of it this way. If someone goes into a bar and is served a number of drinks which cause the person to be intoxicated and that person leaves the bar and gets into a car and kills five people, the bar can be held liable.

If this woman is found to have been drinking 10 drinks (or however many she drank) WITH her husband, and he knowingly watched her get into the car with all these children, then he also can be held liable because he COULD have stopped her. We do not know at this time the exact circumstances, so please do not quote me. I am just explaining how he could be held legally liable for her actions.

[ABC]

I think this whole thing will be settled if they ever find her buying liquor. They can trace her credit card...possibly stopped by someones house and bought marijuana. Alos they will be releasing the 911 calls soon. 4hr drive from camp site to location of the auto accident is to long..it should only take one hour.
What is the time line? I have no idea where this occurred? Did I hear it was the Taconic Parkway? Was she drinking the night before and if so, when did she stop? When did she leave the ?campground? How fast does alcohol matabolize in the body per ounce? Clearly, if she had undigested alcohol in her stomach, she was drining while driving. What was with the phone call to her brother? I imagine the police are back tracking the car and her stops, etc.

[Leanne Weich]

Try thinking of it this way. If someone goes into a bar and is served a number of drinks which cause the person to be intoxicated and that person leaves the bar and gets into a car and kills five people, the bar can be held liable.

If this woman is found to have been drinking 10 drinks (or however many she drank) WITH her husband, and he knowingly watched her get into the car with all these children, then he also can be held liable because he COULD have stopped her. We do not know at this time the exact circumstances, so please do not quote me. I am just explaining how he could be held legally liable for her actions.

ITA with this and although I know, legally, it will not make a difference, as a LEO he, of all people, should know better - if he did, that is.

[SavannahStar]

Try thinking of it this way. If someone goes into a bar and is served a number of drinks which cause the person to be intoxicated and that person leaves the bar and gets into a car and kills five people, the bar can be held liable.

If this woman is found to have been drinking 10 drinks (or however many she drank) WITH her husband, and he knowingly watched her get into the car with all these children, then he also can be held liable because he COULD have stopped her. We do not know at this time the exact circumstances, so please do not quote me. I am just explaining how he could be held legally liable for her actions.

Well I here ya, there.

But didn't this husband say he didn't even know his wife to drink at all? Do they suspect he knew all about her drinking, and particularly at THAT time, that day, prior to her driving? This is what I don't really understand.

[Jester]

Right. I have to believe that 9 other adults would not let this woman drive intoxicated. But then again, we haven't heard everything yet. There's a reason why CPS is investigating. Maybe there's more to this story than we know or they're just doing their job.

I wish they were just as vigilant in checking on other cases as well but alas, that's for another day, another topic.

The image that comes to mind is a woman leaving the campsite, motoring over to the liquor barn, grabbing a two six of vodka, cruising over to the fast food joint, then guzzling the vodka, toking a reefer, all the while driving and looking after children, and then having a horrendous fatal accident. It seems more likely that her drinking and toking happened before she left the campsite.

I guess the investigation will bring out the facts.

[n/t]

Here's an article with some sort of timeline and an eyewitness at the fast food restaurant.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jAJAp341-paJmsICuZzSIf5lmV6wD99UBQ480

[AnniePie]

I think so. IMO the other family is going to try and sue him civilly and CPS is going to try and take the baby away.

So he's being pre-emptive. :sad:

This entire thing is beyond sad. I just don't see how taking that baby away from his dad is going to solve anything. The one with the problem is dead. He needs to be with his family.

[Rucky*Ron]

I don't know, could be a false positive on the toxicology report too

If the tox was wrong, how do you explain the unprocessed Oz's of alcohol remaining in her stomach?

Looking at a couple of her pictures shown on TV she has IMO the 'red nose syndrome' of a drinker.

I think her family was unaware. MOO

[SavannahStar]

This entire thing is beyond sad. I just don't see how taking that baby away from his dad is going to solve anything. The one with the problem is dead. He needs to be with his family.

Agree.

Totally.

:mellow:

[AnniePie]

Yes the link I read said she had 6 gms of undigested alcohol in her stomach, which would prove she was actively drinking while driving, not just before. Also, they not only check blood and urine alcohol levels at autopsy in a case like these, involving fatalities, but cerebrospinal fluid, liver and brain tissue levels and levels in the aqueous humor (most accurate). With 8 people dead and certainly lawsuits in the works, they won't rely on just one test or even one lab. No chance of a mix-up in the lab with other samples or just a false negative.

The husband is probably simply making an attempt to salvage something of his wife's memory. Her THC level was very high and showed intake had to have been within the hour prior to death. Unlikely she smoked dope alone, but possilbe. Impossible to cover the smell though. Could be he's just trying to avoid some kind of criminal or civil liability. I see CPS is investigating, no doubt to see if dad, aunt and/uncle knowingly put their kids at risk.

Even sadder is the fact that even if the adult relatives did not know (which I doubt) the children almost certainly did. Hard to keep the vodka bottle and the drunken behaviour hidden from the kids in a car, depending of course, on their ages.

If my sister had a drinking problem, she would not be driving my kids out of my driveway let alone on a camping trip. I just find it difficult to believe that this woman's relatives knew she had a drinking problem. Alcoholism can be very easy to hide. And I know that from experience.

[n/t]

So heartbreaking to look at the photos:crying:


http://www.newsday.com/long-island/5-liers-killed-in-ny-parkway-crash-1.1328669?image=2

[AZCHARGED]

ITA with this and although I know, legally, it will not make a difference, as a LEO he, of all people, should know better - if he did, that is.

Wow, I missed that -- husband was a Police Officer -- have to pay better attention. Changes things just a little in my mind. I'll have to do some thinking on that. I am thinking we will be learning a whole lot more sooner rather than later. I spotted some other things which looked a little hinky to me in that press conference. Have to wait and see.

[Brentwood]

You are absolutely right, ABC.

And that alcohol test was done from blood, which is very precise.

I agree. They also found alcohol still in her stomach, per op link. The evidence seems clear that she was under the influence.

[Brentwood]

Five. Her own two, and three nieces. Her son is the only survivor.

Do you know if the surviviing son was injured? Since there was a fire, I hope someone got him out fast.

[Pat]

http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20090804/UPDATES01/90804030/1005/NEWS01/Report++Wrong-way+driver+in+crash+that+killed+8+was+drunk

Her husband is a Public Safety Officer, not a Police Officer (evidently there is a difference, because another article made the distinction of his not being a "sworn police officer).

The article says:

"Schuler left the Hunter Lake Campground in Parksville, N.Y., at 9:30 a.m. with the five children. Her husband, Daniel Schuler, a Nassau County public safety officer, was driving home in a separate vehicle with the family dog.

Police said Diane Schuler, who crossed the Tappan Zee about 1 p.m., and pulled over on the Tarrytown end of the bridge. At 1:02 p.m., she called her brother, Warren Hance, and had an eight minute cell phone conversation, relating that she was feeling disoriented and had trouble seeing.

Hance told Schuler to stay put and he would drive to her. But Schuler instead drove off, leaving her cell phone at the roadside stop. But instead of heading south towards home, she drove north.

At 1:35 p.m., Schuler drove the Windstar against traffic down the Pleasantville Road off-ramp and headed south in the northbound lanes of the Taconic parkway."

There is another article I read yesterday which quoted a driver as saying she was driving erratically, honking and passing cars, and flashing her headlights before she pulled off at the end of the bridge. I am trying to find the link. I'll post it when I do.

Those poor kids must have been so frightened.

[BOZGAL2]

This is a terrible tragedy to say the least.

I have a real problem with the tox reports.
I've never seen anyone who never had a drinking problem be able to consume that amount of alcohol and be able to walk, much less drive.
Sadly it is clear she had a drinking problem. There is no disputing that. JMO

I had not heard her husband was at the campsite as well. News to me, but I just started following this case. IMO this changes the game so to speak.

I completely understand why an investigation would take place and also unfortunately a 3rd party can be held liable. Not a pleasant picture but just the facts. JMO

My heart breaks for all the victims.

[Pat]

http://www.newsday.com/columnists/joye-brown/diane-schuler-no-longer-a-victim-1.1349200

I can't locate the newspaper article I read yesterday, but this piece in Newsday is almost a direct quote from the driver (who was identified by name) who was quoted in the article in the newspaper. I'll keep looking.

"She stopped for breakfast and then kept driving; stopped to call her brother, and kept driving. She drove about 60 miles before reaching the Taconic, aggressively straddling lanes, tailgating, flashing brights and using the shoulder to pass one car, according to motorists' reports."

[Lavinia]

If my sister had a drinking problem, she would not be driving my kids out of my driveway let alone on a camping trip. I just find it difficult to believe that this woman's relatives knew she had a drinking problem. Alcoholism can be very easy to hide. And I know that from experience.

I totally agree AP! Some are past experts at hiding alcoholism.

[Heidi J.]

NG asked last night how they determine blood alcohol levels in a person's system and it is not just a simple blood test. They take tissue samples of liver and brain and they draw eye fluid and urine as well as blood.

I find it hard to believe all those tests were false readings. Then there is a the bottle of Absolute in the car. I wonder if any pieces of the mouth of the bottle or if any liquid remained where they could test for saliva. I doubt it since there was a fire.

Also, there was the marijuana found in her system. High levels apparently indicating that she had smoked within an hour of the crash. I know marijuana stays in the body for a long time but I think the levels can be measured well enough to tell if it was recently ingested.

I do feel for her husband. He may not have known she had a drinking problem. My own husband is a recovering alcoholic and had gone to rehab more than once. After the first time, I thought he was doing fine until I found hidden bottles around the house and you would think that KNOWING that he had a problem that I would have been able to tell right away that he had gone back to drinking but I didn't until I found those hidden bottles. He said he would wait until I was sleeping or would sneak a drink while I was doing stuff around the house. She may have drank while he was at work and it's very typical of a closet drinker to drink vodka because its odor is not very pungent.

Does anyone know if she was the only adult on the trip?

Maybe she didn't smoke the weed, maybe she ate it?

[Brentwood]

Here's an article with some sort of timeline and an eyewitness at the fast food restaurant.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jAJAp341-paJmsICuZzSIf5lmV6wD99UBQ480

Interesting...

Schuler was said to be sober when she left the camp at 9:30 am.

She stopped at McDs. Interviewed McD employees said no indication of impairment.

In the final phone call, Schuler's 8yo niece told her dad that she wasn't feeling well and had trouble seeing/speaking.

[trigger]

What is the time line? I have no idea where this occurred? Did I hear it was the Taconic Parkway? Was she drinking the night before and if so, when did she stop? When did she leave the ?campground? How fast does alcohol matabolize in the body per ounce? Clearly, if she had undigested alcohol in her stomach, she was drining while driving. What was with the phone call to her brother? I imagine the police are back tracking the car and her stops, etc.

She left around 930 am and the crash occured at 130pm. It should have taken her one hour to get where she crashed. If she ran into traffic well it still wouldnt have taken her all that time. The campground is run by Ann Scott who is very strict with her rules there.My daughter use to go there all the time. Ann is a busy body always walking around and is into everyones business. So when NG interviewed her and she said she was not drinking that morning she left you know well I believe her only because of my daughter knowing Ann. I think Dianes cell phone will be one clue as to where she was, hopefully. Diane called her brother but she refused to pull over. So sad.

[Heidi J.]

I think that maybe no one has seen this woman sober in a long time and her behavior when drunk is her "normal" behavior to them. I don't think anyone is a secret drinker. You can smell it, vodka too, see the eyes, the uncoordinated movements and sloppy slurred speach. Any one who has ten drinks in a short time is drunk for sure and as it was early AM, maybe she was half drunk from the night before. It is obvious to me that her brother knew something was UP and was concerned enough to call the police. This is so tragic. Those poor children.:rose:

Her SIL was on CBS this morning.. said she always entrusted her son with Diane. I believed her, just as I believe the hubby. Something is out of sorts here.. I just can't put my finger on it. Normal business woman, drove that route several times in the past, entrusted many times before with niece's and nephews. Now it is learned she had BAL of 2x's the legal limit along with THC.

2 thongs stuck out in the interview with the SIL. No one has ever denied she used weed.. which doesn't mean anything really. Pot doesn't make people homicidal. But that did stick out. Also, the fact that she had the abscess in her mouth. They can hurt alot! I had one before, and I felt like I wanted to drill into my skull to relieve the pain. Just a few things that stuck out.

This one has me stumped.. I really don't see this lady being a closet alcoholic.

JMO

[Pat]

Police said Diane Schuler, who crossed the Tappan Zee about 1 p.m., and pulled over on the Tarrytown end of the bridge. At 1:02 p.m., she called her brother, Warren Hance, and had an eight minute cell phone conversation, relating that she was feeling disoriented and had trouble seeing.

Please go back and read the link I provided on the prior page. Her brother told her to stay put and he'd come...she didn't.

[Rucky*Ron]

Those poor children.

[Shells2]

I think there is something hinky with this story.

A closet alcoholic does not phone someone in their family and tell them that they feel disoriented and can't see right.. That would sort of defeat the whole "closet" issue..

I think there is something that the police are missing.

ETA : I was thinking about this last night, as I was driving. I had a bottle of vodka and a bottle of wine behind my seat. They weren't for me. I had picked them up for a friend who was having a dinner party. I was thinking, that since on the rare occasion that I do drink, I either drink wine or vodka, that people would automatically assume that I was drinking if there was an accident and those bottles were found. I then started thinking about what if I had an underlying medical condition that I wasn't aware of that would cause me to drive irrationally and test positive for THC and alcohol.. No one would ever know the truth.

[Pat]

I don't drink, but wouldn't someone with no history of alcohol abuse get really sick (throwing up) after drinking as much as she did in just a few hours?

[Shells2]

I don't drink, but wouldn't someone with no history of alcohol abuse get really sick (throwing up) after drinking as much as she did in just a few hours?


Right! And if she was a closet alcoholic like the people are saying, the coroner would have been able to detect liver damage from all her drinking wouldn't he/she?

[trigger]

Gee I had no idea hes employed where im employed. My department is across the street from his and I live 20 minutes from his house. I feel so sorry for him. And our paychecks are being lagged for 6 months. I truly think if he knew she drank or that matter her brother knew she drank theres no way her brother would let her drive his 3 children home. No way. Something does not make sense. I wonder if she maybe drank some vodka to wash down a asprin? Lets say the pain didnt go away so she took another drink with another asprin. Heres the website to the campground. Its says its 2 1/2 hrs from NY City.

http://www.hunterlakecampground.com/


Articles of the incident..

http://www.1010wins.com/Police-Track-Mom-s-Path/4964007

[Lavinia]

I don't drink, but wouldn't someone with no history of alcohol abuse get really sick (throwing up) after drinking as much as she did in just a few hours?

I drank some back when I was a kid. Not terribly often but when I did, I could really put it away. I never vomited, never blacked out and I never got a hangover. I would be dehydrated the next day, but not hungover.

[Barbara2]

I don't drink, but wouldn't someone with no history of alcohol abuse get really sick (throwing up) after drinking as much as she did in just a few hours?

Definitely not. I have seen an alcoholic drink enough that would KILL me and he got up in the morning and went to work.

[Shells2]

Definitely not. I have seen an alcoholic drink enough that would KILL me and he got up in the morning and went to work.


Wouldn't an alcoholic be classified as alcohol abuse?? :confused:

[Barbara2]

Right! And if she was a closet alcoholic like the people are saying, the coroner would have been able to detect liver damage from all her drinking wouldn't he/she?

Not at the age of 36. Our bodies take a lot of abuse and liver damage wouldn't show up by the age of 36 for most.

[Lavinia]

Gee I had no idea hes employed where im employed. My department is across the street from his and I live 20 minutes from his house. I feel so sorry for him. And our paychecks are being lagged for 6 months. I truly think if he knew she drank or that matter her brother knew she drank theres no way her brother would let her drive his 3 children home. No way. Something does not make sense. I wonder if she maybe drank some vodka to wash down a asprin? Lets say the pain didnt go away so she took another drink with another asprin. Heres the website to the campground. Its says its 2 1/2 hrs from NY City.

http://www.hunterlakecampground.com/


Articles of the incident..

http://www.1010wins.com/Police-Track-Mom-s-Path/4964007

Why wash down aspirin with vodka? <shudder> Bleeding ulcer city.

The ME said she had the equivalent of *10* shots of vodka, not counting what was still unmetabolized in her stomach. And then what explains the weed?

[Barbara2]

Wouldn't an alcoholic be classified as alcohol abuse?? :confused:

For sure. That doesn't mean that her husband was aware that she was an abuser though.

[Lavinia]

I think there is something hinky with this story.

A closet alcoholic does not phone someone in their family and tell them that they feel disoriented and can't see right.. That would sort of defeat the whole "closet" issue..

I think there is something that the police are missing.

ETA : I was thinking about this last night, as I was driving. I had a bottle of vodka and a bottle of wine behind my seat. They weren't for me. I had picked them up for a friend who was having a dinner party. I was thinking, that since on the rare occasion that I do drink, I either drink wine or vodka, that people would automatically assume that I was drinking if there was an accident and those bottles were found. I then started thinking about what if I had an underlying medical condition that I wasn't aware of that would cause me to drive irrationally and test positive for THC and alcohol.. No one would ever know the truth.

Shells, there is NO underlying medical disorder that would make you have, or test, for something in your blood that shows up as alcohol or THC. You're safe. :wink:

[Lavinia]

Right! And if she was a closet alcoholic like the people are saying, the coroner would have been able to detect liver damage from all her drinking wouldn't he/she?

Depends on when she started, how often she would have abused and the general health of her liver.

[trigger]

I think there is something hinky with this story.

A closet alcoholic does not phone someone in their family and tell them that they feel disoriented and can't see right.. That would sort of defeat the whole "closet" issue..

I think there is something that the police are missing.

ETA : I was thinking about this last night, as I was driving. I had a bottle of vodka and a bottle of wine behind my seat. They weren't for me. I had picked them up for a friend who was having a dinner party. I was thinking, that since on the rare occasion that I do drink, I either drink wine or vodka, that people would automatically assume that I was drinking if there was an accident and those bottles were found. I then started thinking about what if I had an underlying medical condition that I wasn't aware of that would cause me to drive irrationally and test positive for THC and alcohol.. No one would ever know the truth.

Very true it could happen that way. Oh my brother was tested postive for having marijuana in his system and it turned out to be a poppy bagel or some bagel with seeds that he ate,,,but his job, Post Office totally flipped out and did not believe him then they made him go get retested again and thats how they found out it was a bagel.

[daniel green]

They'll have to prove that the husband knew she was high.

Also, the other family is meeting with the D.A. which means they're considering a criminal prosecution against someone. Since she's dead, I'm not sure who they can prosecute and for what? :confused:

imo

They can't prosecute anyone unless somebody sold her the alcohol, and, even then, it's dicey.

But the family of the three men can and will sue the woman's insurance company and family.

[BOZGAL2]

Not at the age of 36. Our bodies take a lot of abuse and liver damage wouldn't show up by the age of 36 for most.

You are absolutely correct on this.

[trigger]

Why wash down aspirin with vodka? <shudder> Bleeding ulcer city.

The ME said she had the equivalent of *10* shots of vodka, not counting what was still unmetabolized in her stomach. And then what explains the weed?


I heard there was 4 grams of alcohol in her stomach...Just saying the what if's...

[daniel green]

Four. One survived.

Oh, how horrible. Were they all in car seats/seat belts? Were any of the kids in the front seat?

[Lavinia]

I heard there was 4 grams of alcohol in her stomach...Just saying the what if's...

I know you're just saying the "what-ifs" trigger. I hope i didn't sound like I was fussing with you. :blushing: I'm just trying to figure this out and I'm frustrated. Didn't mean to sound harsh about it.

[AnniePie]

I think there is something hinky with this story.

A closet alcoholic does not phone someone in their family and tell them that they feel disoriented and can't see right.. That would sort of defeat the whole "closet" issue..

I think there is something that the police are missing.

ETA : I was thinking about this last night, as I was driving. I had a bottle of vodka and a bottle of wine behind my seat. They weren't for me. I had picked them up for a friend who was having a dinner party. I was thinking, that since on the rare occasion that I do drink, I either drink wine or vodka, that people would automatically assume that I was drinking if there was an accident and those bottles were found. I then started thinking about what if I had an underlying medical condition that I wasn't aware of that would cause me to drive irrationally and test positive for THC and alcohol.. No one would ever know the truth.


Hey Shells,

I'm not a doctor, but I have worked in the health care industry for 25 years. I can assure you that there is no underlying medical condition that would cause you to test positive for THC or alcohol unless you had ingested it yourself.

Annie

[daniel green]

no, they won't.

They will sue her insurance company and her estate and all they have to prove is that she was at fault.

The husband can deflect all he wants but the likelihood of a false positive for both weed and booze is pretty hard to calculate.

Hey, Hairy, I agree. It was ruled a homicide before they even had the alcohol and THC tests back.

What would the odds be on BOTH tests being wrong?

She didn't have to smoke marijuana, btw, as I am reading the thread. She could have ingested it.

[daniel green]

Hey Shells,

I'm not a doctor, but I have worked in the health care industry for 25 years. I can assure you that there is no underlying medical condition that would cause you to test positive for THC or alcohol unless you had ingested it yourself.

Annie

Agree.

I happened upon a Dr Nancy news hour on MSNBC yesterday, I believe, and she was talking about how it was virtually impossible for those tests to be incorrect. She also spoke to a physician who is an expert in hormones (cannot for the life of me think of the name of the specialty right now) and they both said that the gestational diabetes had no bearing on the tests and would have been resolved after childbirth.

[annalyzer]

I think there is something hinky with this story.

A closet alcoholic does not phone someone in their family and tell them that they feel disoriented and can't see right.. That would sort of defeat the whole "closet" issue..

I think there is something that the police are missing.

ETA : I was thinking about this last night, as I was driving. I had a bottle of vodka and a bottle of wine behind my seat. They weren't for me. I had picked them up for a friend who was having a dinner party. I was thinking, that since on the rare occasion that I do drink, I either drink wine or vodka, that people would automatically assume that I was drinking if there was an accident and those bottles were found. I then started thinking about what if I had an underlying medical condition that I wasn't aware of that would cause me to drive irrationally and test positive for THC and alcohol.. No one would ever know the truth.

And why call her brother and say she was feeling disoriented? And why drive flashing her lights and honking the horn? Drunks don't (normally) do that.

[trigger]

I know you're just saying the "what-ifs" trigger. I hope i didn't sound like I was fussing with you. :blushing: I'm just trying to figure this out and I'm frustrated. Didn't mean to sound harsh about it.

Me too...:thumbsup: Please take time to read this article I found....

http://www.duicentral.com/dui_blood_case/index.html

[Rucky*Ron]

They can't prosecute anyone unless somebody sold her the alcohol, and, even then, it's dicey.

But the family of the three men can and will sue the woman's insurance company and family.

How could a package liquor store be liable in any way?
Their business is selling state sealed bottles of alcohol.
Had she sat around in the store drinking it'd be different IMO.

Is it fair to hold her family responsible though? The insurance company yes... that's what the premiums paid..

But her husband? I don't get that...

[daniel green]

[B][COLOR="Sienna"]How could a package liquor store be liable in any way?
snipped

Sorry, my post was unclear. No the pkg store could not be charged.

I meant if she had, say, been drinking at a bar and they kept serving her.

[Lavinia]

Me too...:thumbsup: Please take time to read this article I found....

http://www.duicentral.com/dui_blood_case/index.html

Oh there's no doubt that there have been mistakes in a lab, trig. I really, really think that they made sure to be accurate on this. This was no simple DUI. This was a high profile, multiple death of kids and other innocents. I bet anything, all "T's" were crossed and all "I's" were dotted.

[Shells2]

Hey Shells,

I'm not a doctor, but I have worked in the health care industry for 25 years. I can assure you that there is no underlying medical condition that would cause you to test positive for THC or alcohol unless you had ingested it yourself.

Annie


Ibuprofen, diabetes and kidney problems can all cause false positives for marijuana.

Diabetes and Kidney disease can cause false positives for alchol.

She had an abcess on her tooth - I would take ibuprofen ( anti-inflammatory) if I had that.

Not being able to see right, feeling disoriented would coincide with a low blood sugar level which could be indicative of diabetes.

I'm telling you the phone call just isn't sitting right with me... she would not have made that call if she was a closet alcoholic IMO.

[Shells2]

And why call her brother and say she was feeling disoriented? And why drive flashing her lights and honking the horn? Drunks don't (normally) do that.

Exactly.. something was crazy wrong here IMO.

Maybe the 5 year old survivor will be able to provide some answers when he gets better...

[trigger]

Theres a website called Go Ask Alice. Someone asked her about what happens to you if you smoke MJ and drive. It sounds like what happen to Diane...

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/1651.html

[daniel green]

Ibuprofen, diabetes and kidney problems can all cause false positives for marijuana.

Diabetes and Kidney disease can cause false positives for alchol.

snipped.

The autopsy would reveal low or high blood sugar levels, had she had diabetes.

Ibuprophen can cause false positives for THC????? No way. And neither can diabetes or renal problems.

No way.

[daniel green]

snipped
Not being able to see right, feeling disoriented would coincide with a low blood sugar level which could be indicative of diabetes.

.

Actually, quite the opposite as with diabetes one gets HIGH sugar levels. And it would take blood sugar levels about 3X the normal +++ to have any visual problems.

[Shells2]

Actually, quite the opposite as with diabetes one gets HIGH sugar levels. And it would take blood sugar levels about 3X the normal +++ to have any visual problems.

I wish you were right, but sadly not so much... diabetes has both high and low blood sugar levels.

My Grandma has diabetes and gets low blood sugar.. this is why when some diabetics are having an "attack" you give them orange juice or a candy.

http://www.healthlinkbc.ca/kbase/topic/symptom/tm7018/overview.htm

Secondly, when you are having an "attack" your vision may be blurry just due to the disorientation and dizziness.

[Lavinia]

I wish you were right, but sadly not so much... diabetes has both high and low blood sugar levels.

My Grandma has diabetes and gets low blood sugar.. this is why when some diabetics are having an "attack" you give them orange juice or a candy.

http://www.healthlinkbc.ca/kbase/topic/symptom/tm7018/overview.htm

Secondly, when you are having an "attack" your vision may be blurry just due to the disorientation and dizziness.

That is due to diabetic meds or insulin or diabetic diet almost exclusively though Shells.. From what we know, she did not have diabetes.

Visual disturbances are almost exclusively with very high blood sugar. You usually get pale, weak and with a high thready heart rate with low blood-sugar.

I have no doubt it was alcohol and THC, but why, when and who knew?

[trigger]

Oh there's no doubt that there have been mistakes in a lab, trig. I really, really think that they made sure to be accurate on this. This was no simple DUI. This was a high profile, multiple death of kids and other innocents. I bet anything, all "T's" were crossed and all "I's" were dotted.


Your right Lavinia..Its just blew my mind when the news broke the other day. Totally shocking. I wonder if someone got her so mad that she just flipped out...Well gotta get some sleep. Night all.. :seeya:

[daniel green]

snipped

Secondly, when you are having an "attack" your vision may be blurry just due to the disorientation and dizziness.

There is no such thing as a diabetes "attack."

[Lavinia]

Your right Lavinia..Its just blew my mind when the news broke the other day. Totally shocking. I wonder if someone got her so mad that she just flipped out...Well gotta get some sleep. Night all.. :seeya:

Good night trigger! I hope we get the answers. :seeya:

[Shells2]

There is no such thing as a diabetes "attack."


Notice the quotations? When a person gets extremely low blood sugar/high blood sugar they get disoriented and a mulititude of things happen. I used the word "attack" to sum that up... I thought you would have been able to figure that out yourself, but guess not...

Now why not address the part of my post that was responding to your incorrect statement that diabetes does not cause low blood sugar... LOL

[daniel green]

Notice the quotations? When a person gets extremely low blood sugar/high blood sugar they get disoriented and a mulititude of things happen. snipped

Nope. When blood sugar levels get very elevated, there is no such disorientation.

[Shells2]

That is due to diabetic meds or insulin or diabetic diet almost exclusively though Shells.. From what we know, she did not have diabetes.

Visual disturbances are almost exclusively with very high blood sugar. You usually get pale, weak and with a high thready heart rate with low blood-sugar.

I have no doubt it was alcohol and THC, but why, when and who knew?


My grandmother gets low blood sugar and she was not on diabetic meds or insulin until just recently. If she didn't eat properly, or went too long without eating, she gets low blood sugar, gets very grumpy then gets disoriented, really dizzy and can't focus on anything.

[Shells2]

Nope. When blood sugar levels get very elevated, there is no such disorientation.


"Low" does not mean "elevated" where I come from.

[Lavinia]

My grandmother gets low blood sugar and she was not on diabetic meds or insulin until just recently. If she didn't eat properly, or went too long without eating, she gets low blood sugar, gets very grumpy then gets disoriented, really dizzy and can't focus on anything.

That's what I meant by diet, Shells. Diabetics can get a reactive hypoglycemia yet their usual glucose level is high.

I dunno, there was really no indication that she had diabetes is there? She had gestational diabetes some time before this happened, but that should have been resolved at the child's birth, plus they apparently didn't find anything on the autopsy to suggest diabetes. They would have done an A1C test on her, also, to see what her glucose levels were for appx. the preceding 3 months to see if she had been having problems metabolizing glucose. Apparently she tested okay. Even if she had diabetes, it still doesn't explain the alcohol and mj.

[Shells2]

That's what I meant by diet, Shells. Diabetics can get a reactive hypoglycemia yet their usual glucose level is high.

I dunno, there was really no indication that she had diabetes is there? She had gestational diabetes some time before this happened, but that should have been resolved at the child's birth, plus they apparently didn't find anything on the autopsy to suggest diabetes. They would have done an A1C test on her, also, to see what her glucose levels were for appx. the preceding 3 months to see if she had been having problems metabolizing glucose. Apparently she tested okay. Even if she had diabetes, it still doesn't explain the alcohol and mj.


her family says she is diabetic..

[Lavinia]

her family says she is diabetic..

Oh, I thought they were just speculating that she might be since she had the gestational diabetes. My bad, if so. Still doesn't explain the alcohol and weed, for me though. I can't get past that.

[daniel green]

http://news.aol.com/health/article/drinking-dui-arrests-rise-among-women/607149?icid=main|htmlws-main|dl5|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Fhealth% 2Farticle%2Fdrinking-dui-arrests-rise-among-women%2F607149

[Shells2]

Oh, I thought they were just speculating that she might be since she had the gestational diabetes. My bad, if so. Still doesn't explain the alcohol and weed, for me though. I can't get past that.

I dunno.. It just doesn't make any sense to me at all .. I just have a feeling there is more to this.

[Musterion]

"Police investigating a head-on highway crash that killed a suburban mother and seven other people said Friday she was fine at a fast-food restaurant an hour after starting her drive, narrowing the timeline for when she may have begun a drinking binge."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/07/AR2009080700681.html

Praying for the victim's families. :sad:

IMO.
M.

[Lavinia]

I dunno.. It just doesn't make any sense to me at all .. I just have a feeling there is more to this.

I do too (think there is more to this). It fascinates me because there is definitely a puzzle piece missing.

[Lady_Jean_La]

I wish you were right, but sadly not so much... diabetes has both high and low blood sugar levels.

My Grandma has diabetes and gets low blood sugar.. this is why when some diabetics are having an "attack" you give them orange juice or a candy.

http://www.healthlinkbc.ca/kbase/topic/symptom/tm7018/overview.htm

Secondly, when you are having an "attack" your vision may be blurry just due to the disorientation and dizziness.

I wonder what she ate at McDonalds? Maybe a roll and sugary drink?

[Pat]

How many think the families of the men in the other car who were killed will file wrongful death suits? If those families believe she was driving drunk and while high, who could blame them. There has been sympathy for this woman's husband because of the death of his wife and child...but what about the other victims?

If they do, and the insurance companies won't settle, I think this woman and her family will be put under a very public microscope.

[Lady_Jean_La]

There is no such thing as a diabetes "attack."

Really?

Dogs rescue owner during diabetic attack

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Dogs_rescue_owner_during_diabetic_attack

[Pat]

I wonder what she ate at McDonalds? Maybe a roll and sugary drink?

None of that explains the high alcohol levels and high THC level. And she had undigested alcohol in her stomach.

[Lady_Jean_La]

My grandmother gets low blood sugar and she was not on diabetic meds or insulin until just recently. If she didn't eat properly, or went too long without eating, she gets low blood sugar, gets very grumpy then gets disoriented, really dizzy and can't focus on anything.
There are many borderline diabetics who do not take medication and can manage through exercise and diet. imo

[AJandTam]

I don't know this story real well so excuse my not knowing the details yet. But why were all of those children in the car w/her anyhow?? Was she babysitting??

Did she call her brother or did one of her brothers daughters call dad..??

[Lady_Jean_La]

None of that explains the high alcohol levels and high THC level. And she had undigested alcohol in her stomach.True. That can't be explained away. imo

[daniel green]

None of that explains the high alcohol levels and high THC level. And she had undigested alcohol in her stomach.

Nope.

And the autopsy would have revealed low or high blood sugar levels.

[Shells2]

None of that explains the high alcohol levels and high THC level. And she had undigested alcohol in her stomach.

Right.. I forgot about the undigested alcohol...

This is just so weird..

[daniel green]

So, there is no info out there if the children had been properly restrained in car seats/seat belts or if any of them were sitting in the front seat?

[AJandTam]

None of that explains the high alcohol levels and high THC level. And she had undigested alcohol in her stomach.

Yeah, just guessing, I could be wrong. It just seems like she couldn't very well stop off at the liquor store on a sunday morning w/all of those kids and pick up booze or pick up the MJ . She must have had this stuff in her van.. I don't know what laws are in all states but do they even sell booze on sunday mornings, plus, what time do they open on sunday anyhow??

[Musterion]

I don't know this story real well so excuse my not knowing the details yet. But why were all of those children in the car w/her anyhow?? Was she babysitting??

Did she call her brother or did one of her brothers daughters call dad..??

I'm wondering some things, as well, AJandTam, my friend.

Where were the three girls who died mother and father? Were they camping as well, or were the girls there with the Aunt and Uncle only? Why, if the girls parents were there, did they go with their Aunt?

I'm not insinuating blame on anyone else, except the one who may have done the drinking and drugging and driving, but I am not clear on why all the children were with Diane?

Anyone know?

TIA.
IMO.
M.

[AJandTam]

I'm wondering some things, as well, AJandTam, my friend.

Where were the three girls who died mother and father? Were they camping as well, or were the girls there with the Aunt and Uncle only? Why, if the girls parents were there, did they go with their Aunt?

I'm not insinuating blame on anyone else, except the one who may have done the drinking and drugging and driving, but I am not clear on why all the children were with Diane?

Anyone know?

TIA.
IMO.
M.

Hey You. Haven't seen you in a while. Hope you are good.

I"m wondering if there were others out camping w/them if they were tested for drugs too. Maybe a bunch of adults were out on a weekend camping trip and all of them were drinking and doing drugs. It happens. I don't think you can just make a couple of stops to pick up MJ and Booze on a sunday morning, can you? If she didn't have a combo of both drugs and booze in her system, we might have a mystery here but w/both. I think she did it herself. I also wonder why if she wasn't feeling well, she didn't call her husband instead of her brother?? I'd of called my husband. But I don't have a brother, so maybe those w/brothers would have called a brother instead.

[Shells2]

Nope.

And the autopsy would have revealed low or high blood sugar levels.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the link to the autopsy.. can you paste it here for all of us?

All I have heard the Cheif ME say regarding non alcohol caused problems is the following :

An autopsy ruled out conditions such as an aneurysm, stroke or heart attack, and that there were no signs of diabetes in her eye fluid, he said.

I haven't heard anything about testing for blood sugar levels.

[Lavinia]

So, there is no info out there if the children had been properly restrained in car seats/seat belts or if any of them were sitting in the front seat?

Hey DG. I'm thinking that they were restrained properly as that doesn't seem to be an issue with anyone. I think there would have been a huge hue and cry if they hadn't been restrained. I stand to be corrected though.

[Shells2]

Hey You. Haven't seen you in a while. Hope you are good.

I"m wondering if there were others out camping w/them if they were tested for drugs too. Maybe a bunch of adults were out on a weekend camping trip and all of them were drinking and doing drugs. It happens. I don't think you can just make a couple of stops to pick up MJ and Booze on a sunday morning, can you? If she didn't have a combo of both drugs and booze in her system, we might have a mystery here but w/both. I think she did it herself. I also wonder why if she wasn't feeling well, she didn't call her husband instead of her brother?? I'd of called my husband. But I don't have a brother, so maybe those w/brothers would have called a brother instead.

I read in an article that one of the children also got on the phone and told her father that she ( Diane) wasn't feeling well. I'm wondering what she was doing to make the child say that...

[Lavinia]

I'm sorry, I must have missed the link to the autopsy.. can you paste it here for all of us?

All I have heard the Cheif ME say regarding non alcohol caused problems is the following :

An autopsy ruled out conditions such as an aneurysm, stroke or heart attack, and that there were no signs of diabetes in her eye fluid, he said.

I haven't heard anything about testing for blood sugar levels.

Glucose levels are ALWAYS done in an autopsy Shells. It's considered routine.

[daniel green]

snipped
An autopsy ruled out conditions such as an aneurysm, stroke or heart attack, and that there were no signs of diabetes in her eye fluid, he said.

I haven't heard anything about testing for blood sugar levels.

Blood sugar levels is what gives a Dx of diabetes. :rolleyes: That is how you find out at autopsy. As well as insulin levels.

[daniel green]

Glucose levels are ALWAYS done in an autopsy Shells. It's considered routine.

Yep. It is.

[daniel green]

Hey DG. I'm thinking that they were restrained properly as that doesn't seem to be an issue with anyone. I think there would have been a huge hue and cry if they hadn't been restrained. I stand to be corrected though.

I sure hope so. It was the first thing I wondered, that and if any child was in the front seat where there is an airbag.

[daniel green]

This week, police released toxicology findings from Diane Schuler's July 27 autopsy. The report said Schuler had a blood-alcohol level of 0.19 percent at the time of the crash - the equivalent of 10 drinks and more than twice the legal limit of 0.08 percent. She also had "high levels" of THC in her system. THC is the active ingredient in marijuana. Westchester County's chief toxicologist, Elizabeth Spratt, said this week that Schuler would have smoked marijuana as recently as 15 minutes before the crash. The Westchester medical examiner said last night that there was no THC in the children.

http://www.lohud.com/article/2009908070356

[AJandTam]

I read in an article that one of the children also got on the phone and told her father that she ( Diane) wasn't feeling well. I'm wondering what she was doing to make the child say that...

HI Shells, I don't know, acting irratically or something. Those babies must have really scared. I haven't figured out yet if Diane called her brother or the children did?? I have been reading mostly a couple of articles and some comments on the case. Someone said the cell phone was thrown out the window?

[daniel green]

Dr. Ronald E. Gots of the International Center for Toxicology and Medicine, a private consulting firm in Maryland, said it was "extraordinarily unlikely" that any medical or physical condition other than ingesting alcohol and marijuana would produce toxicology results similar to Schuler's. "Not to my knowledge," Gots said. "It doesn't make any sense."

From same link

[daniel green]

Mr. Ruskin said on Friday that phone records showed that four calls were logged on Ms. Schuler’s cellphone in the last hours of her life — two incoming calls and two outgoing ones. He said that Ms. Schuler called her brother, Warren Hance, at 11:37 a.m., to say that she was in traffic, “running a bit late,” but that her nieces would be home in time for a scheduled performance rehearsal. At 12:08 p.m., Ms. Schuler received a call, but it is not yet known who made the call, Mr. Ruskin said. Emma Hance called her father at 12:58 p.m. and said,
“Daddy, there is something wrong with Aunt Diane and she is having trouble seeing and she is talking funny, she is slurring,” Mr. Ruskin said. That call was dropped after three minutes and Mr. Hance called back at 1:01 p.m., in a conversation that lasted nine minutes. The authorities, who have recovered Ms. Schuler’s abandoned cellphone, will dig into the phone records as part of a criminal investigation by the New York State Police and the Westchester County district attorney’s office. Law enforcement officials said on Friday that while misdemeanor charges could be brought if someone knowingly allowed a drunken driver to take off with children in a car, they did not expect to seek criminal charges against Mr. Schuler or Mr. Hance.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/08/nyregion/08crash.html

[Shells2]

Blood sugar levels is what gives a Dx of diabetes. :rolleyes: That is how you find out at autopsy. As well as insulin levels.

HAHA.. You really know nothing about diabetes do you? Love the eye rolling when you are wrong.. funny stuff.. keep it up :)

Here is some stuff for you to read.. then maybe you will be better equipped to contribute factual stuff to the conversation..

http://www.bddiabetes.com/ca/english/main.aspx?cat=1001&id=1104
( testing for diabetes in live patients - here is a hint: dead people can't fast)

http://www.springerlink.com/content/20q69bgcb91k3ded/
( why the tests dont work in deceased patients )

[AJandTam]

http://www.lohud.com/article/2009908070356

Does he think they got her lab results crossed w/someone elses??

[Shells2]

HI Shells, I don't know, acting irratically or something. Those babies must have really scared. I haven't figured out yet if Diane called her brother or the children did?? I have been reading mostly a couple of articles and some comments on the case. Someone said the cell phone was thrown out the window?

It could have been that she was acting irrationally.. poor little things...

I heard the cell phone was at a rest stop??? Omigosh.. so many rumors. This is just crazy.. I hope we get some facts soon!

[AJandTam]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/08/nyregion/08crash.html

Hmmmmmm thanks for the link. Whomever else she was talking to maybe can help figure out why she was drinking and doing drugs like that.

[daniel green]

Tests will be done on the fluid behind Ms. Schuler’s eyes, he said, to determine if she had elevated glucose levels that might help explain the symptoms she described to her brother.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/03/nyregion/03crash.html

[Details]

While the bloodwork, alcohol in the stomach, and bottle in the car seem conclusive...

If this were diabetes, diabetics are held responsible for maintaining their blood sugar, avoiding an attack, if they are to drive. It's much like driving drunk, if you drive with your blood sugar out of balance, and cause an accident due to that - it's the same thing as driving drunk (nearly).

So, if she were a diabetic, and started having trouble - she'd still be on the hook for the accident, in a fault situation. It's one of the awful things about being a diabetic - but there's no way you can let a person who might go 'strange', pass out, etc. drive on the roads otherwise. They usually keep some candy or donuts on hand to deal with problems.

[AJandTam]

It could have been that she was acting irrationally.. poor little things...

I heard the cell phone was at a rest stop??? Omigosh.. so many rumors. This is just crazy.. I hope we get some facts soon!

In the link by another poster it says she was having trouble seeing, talking funny (slurring)..Then it says that she was on the phone, I guess w/her brother for 9 minutes.. before whatever happend w/the cell phone? No one knows what the deal is w/the cell phone, Just guessing cause they found it someplace after the accident??

[daniel green]

Police said witnesses also identified a minivan fitting the description of Schuler's Ford Windstar driving erratically on upstate roads earlier in the day. That was the same time that Schuler was returning from a Parksville, N.Y., campground where the family kept a trailer. By the time Schuler arrived at the Tappan Zee hours later, she was severely drunk and had high levels of THC - the active ingredient in marijuana - in her system. Elizabeth Spratt, Westchester County's chief toxicologist, said Schuler had smoked marijuana "in a recent period - by that we mean 15 minutes to an hour." Combining that much marijuana with alcohol only compounded the effects, she said. "She would've had difficulty with perception, with her judgment, with her memory," Spratt said. "Around that level of alcohol you also start to get what's called tunnel vision, where your perception is changed so you can't see peripherally all the time, depending on her tolerance that she has to alcohol as well."

http://lohud.com/article/20090805/NEWS02/908050353/-1/SPORTS

[Shells2]

While the bloodwork, alcohol in the stomach, and bottle in the car seem conclusive...

If this were diabetes, diabetics are held responsible for maintaining their blood sugar, avoiding an attack, if they are to drive. It's much like driving drunk, if you drive with your blood sugar out of balance, and cause an accident due to that - it's the same thing as driving drunk (nearly).

So, if she were a diabetic, and started having trouble - she'd still be on the hook for the accident, in a fault situation. It's one of the awful things about being a diabetic - but there's no way you can let a person who might go 'strange', pass out, etc. drive on the roads otherwise. They usually keep some candy or donuts on hand to deal with problems.

I totally agree with that.. I just wonder if it was something she herself didn't realize. And that moving lump on her leg.. I wonder what that was all about.

Are alcoholics prone to abscesses? I'm just curious..

[daniel green]

snipped

So, if she were a diabetic, and started having trouble - she'd still be on the hook for the accident, in a fault situation. It's one of the awful things about being a diabetic - but there's no way you can let a person who might go 'strange', pass out, etc. drive on the roads otherwise. They usually keep some candy or donuts on hand to deal with problems.

Anyone with diabetes would be very aware when he/she is having either high or low glucose levels.

Also, where is her insulin?

[Shells2]

In the link by another poster it says she was having trouble seeing, talking funny (slurring)..Then it says that she was on the phone, I guess w/her brother for 9 minutes..

What's the deal w/the cell phone? You know?

Her brothers daughter is apparently the one that phoned him the first time, complained that Aunt Diane was slurring and acting funny and not feeling well. That call was dropped and then he called her back and that's when the call lasted 9 minutes.

I would love to know how that conversation went...was he giving her heck and freaking out cuz she was drunk, or was he trying to figure out what was wrong with her with genuine concern?

[AJandTam]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/03/nyregion/03crash.html

Isn't it a stretch to say that she had diabetes, that caused this, but then her test got mixed up w/someone elses in the lab??

[Lavinia]

Anyone with diabetes would be very aware when he/she is having either high or low glucose levels.

Also, where is her insulin?

There is a condition known as "hypoglycemia unawareness" which is when (usually) long time diabetic people and some older people just wind up passing out without feeling a thing. I had a friend, who has since had a kidney and pancreas transplant, that did this while we were working. Scarrr-ee.

ETA: But I don't think that's what happened here.

[daniel green]

She had a blood-alcohol level of 0.19 percent, and even more alcohol still in her stomach, so fresh that it had yet to be metabolized. There were high levels of a chemical found in marijuana, enough to pinpoint her last use at 15 minutes to an hour before her death in the worst traffic accident in Westchester County in 75 years. For all the misguided and well-meaning speculation about what may have caused Diane Schuler to drive the wrong way on the Taconic State Parkway 10 days ago, killing eight people in a head-on collision, the real reason was stark in its tragedy and simplicity: She was drunk.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/nyregion/05crash.html

[AJandTam]

Her brothers daughter is apparently the one that phoned him the first time, complained that Aunt Diane was slurring and acting funny and not feeling well. That call was dropped and then he called her back and that's when the call lasted 9 minutes.

I would love to know how that conversation went...was he giving her heck and freaking out cuz she was drunk, or was he trying to figure out what was wrong with her with genuine concern?

Good questions. I would think he would be trying to reason w/her and get her off the road. ?? Then call for help.. .

[Lavinia]

"The husband of the intoxicated woman who killed herself and seven others after driving the wrong way on the Taconic State Parkway said Friday that they carried the same bottle of vodka every weekend between their home and a campground during the summer."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/08/nyregion/08crash.html?ref=nyregion

[AJandTam]

There is a condition known as "hypoglycemia unawareness" which is when (usually) long time diabetic people and some older people just wind up passing out without feeling a thing. I had a friend, who has since had a kidney and pancreas transplant, that did this while we were working. Scarrr-ee.

ETA: But I don't think that's what happened here.

I passed out one time from low sugar, no real warning as I remember it. Just remember waking up on the ground. Then another time my BP went real low..

[daniel green]

Prior to the crash on the Taconic, the last contact Ms. Schuler had with anyone was a cellphone call at 1:02 p.m. to her brother at his home. Investigators said they believed she was on the Westchester side of the Tappan Zee Bridge, because Mr. Hance’s 8-year-old daughter, Emma, got on the phone and said she could see a sign for Tarrytown. Ms. Schuler’s cellphone was found later near the bridge’s toll plaza. On the phone, Mr. Hance told Ms. Schuler to stop and wait for him, but she kept driving, heading north, away from her home on Long Island. Twenty-five minutes later, Ms. Schuler crashed into the Chevy TrailBlazer carrying the two Bastardi men and their friend Daniel Longo, 74. Ms. Schuler’s 5-year-old son, Bryan, was the only child to survive. He is recovering, relatives said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/nyregion/06crash.html?pagewanted=2

[Lavinia]

I passed out one time from low sugar, no real warning as I remember it. Just remember waking up on the ground. Then another time my BP went real low..

Both of those conditons can knock you on your patootie, for sure. (Hope you're better AJ&T!)

[AJandTam]

Both of those conditons can knock you on your patootie, for sure. (Hope you're better AJ&T!)

No doubt, w/the sugar, I was w/someone, and wasn't a big deal but the LBP incident, I was home alone w/my two little ones, and it scared me.

[AJandTam]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/nyregion/06crash.html?pagewanted=2

I could be wrong but by the sounds of this, it kind of sounds like she was mad ?? The phone out the window and headed away from home. Maybe not, but it does kind sound like it. And they won't say who the other two calls were but will say her brother talked to her.

[tv4me]

The husband of the intoxicated woman who killed herself and seven others after driving the wrong way on the Taconic State Parkway said Friday that they carried the same bottle of vodka every weekend between their home and a campground during the summer.

Ok...that has me thinking that both the husband and wife might have been functioning alcoholics. Something about the husband's statement has me thinking that a lot more about this family is going to come out. This could be why Child Services is looking into the family.

So am I correct that it was her niece who called her dad to say that her Aunt wasn't feeling well, slurring words and not able to see well, and that's when he tried to get her to pull over and he'd come and get them?

How horrible for the brother to have all his children killed by the actions of his sister. I wonder if he knew she drank, and if so, now feels guilty for letting the children be in the car with her.

As for the "crazy driving", I think she was drunk, high and in a hurry to get her nieces home for their recital.

All imo

[Nellie]

This story is heartbreaking.
I think that last phone call with her brother could be very revealing.
My heart breaks for that little 8 year old girl who called her daddy.
It sounds to me that she called because she was afraid...NOT because Aunt Diane told her to call.
Then the phone being discarded makes me think she was angry after talking with her brother and maybe even angry with her neice for calling him...and she threw the phone out the window so it could not be used again. All just my speculation...

And after reading the husband say they had that bottle of Vodka on every trip....well, that answers where the Vodka came from, imo.
I also find myself asking how he knew it was the same Vodka bottle every time? And why take it along every time if you're not going to even drink it? What would be the point to drag that bottle along every time? This makes me believe that he knew she drank. And I think her brother was scared/worried with that phone call. IMO....

This is just heartbreaking........

[Nellie]

I could be wrong but by the sounds of this, it kind of sounds like she was mad ?? The phone out the window and headed away from home. Maybe not, but it does kind sound like it. And they won't say who the other two calls were but will say her brother talked to her.

What I just said....sounds like she was mad after talking with the brother. I have a sister who drank and did drugs and she would get very angry with anyone who would try to tell her she had too much to drink and drive. I think the brother knew she was drunk.....and I think she got angry with him for even suggesting it. I also think she may have been mad at her niece for calling him. She may have just headed away from home from her "intoxicated state".

JMO

[Nellie]

Ok...that has me thinking that both the husband and wife might have been functioning alcoholics. Something about the husband's statement has me thinking that a lot more about this family is going to come out. This could be why Child Services is looking into the family.

So am I correct that it was her niece who called her dad to say that her Aunt wasn't feeling well, slurring words and not able to see well, and that's when he tried to get her to pull over and he'd come and get them?

How horrible for the brother to have all his children killed by the actions of his sister. I wonder if he knew she drank, and if so, now feels guilty for letting the children be in the car with her.

As for the "crazy driving", I think she was drunk, high and in a hurry to get her nieces home for their recital.

All imo

Why tote around a bottle of Vodka that you never drink?

[Xenam]

Actually, quite the opposite as with diabetes one gets HIGH sugar levels. And it would take blood sugar levels about 3X the normal +++ to have any visual problems.

My husband has diabetes and yes you can get EXTREMELY disoriented and your vision becomes blurry due to low sugar levels. He has had a couple of episodes and the he now carries a candy bar with him at all times and orange juice. Blood sugar fluctuates which is why diabetics have to test themselves throughout the day to monitor it. It also comes on suddenly; sometimes with no warning. I worry about him every single day because he drives sometimes long distances.

5 Things You Need to Know About Recognizing Low Blood Sugar Symptoms In Diabetics

1. Watch for the Symptoms

Each diabetic will have different symptoms of low blood sugar level. The early symptoms range from anxiety, irritability and confusion. Having dizziness, shaking, disorientation and a pounding heart is common. The symptoms progress to a bad headache, poor coordination, extreme tingling in the body and numbness in the mouth and tongue. A diabetic may pass out during an extreme blood sugar attack or have convulsions or seizures. Recognizing low blood sugar symptoms in diabetics is challenging. The individual may not realize the attack is coming on even if questioned by others. (more)

http://www.livestrong.com/article/4921-need-recognizing-low-blood-sugar/

[AlohaRainbow]

The autopsy would reveal low or high blood sugar levels, had she had diabetes.

Ibuprophen can cause false positives for THC????? No way. And neither can diabetes or renal problems.

No way.
according to this website
http://www.askdocweb.com/falsepositives.html
alot of the nsaids (anaprox, ibuprofen, etc) can cause false positives for thc :shrug:

[AlohaRainbow]

Nope. When blood sugar levels get very elevated, there is no such disorientation.

disorientation can occur with hyperglycemia
http://www.healthline.com/hlc/disorientation

[Lavinia]

according to this website
http://www.askdocweb.com/falsepositives.html
alot of the nsaids (anaprox, ibuprofen, etc) can cause false positives for thc :shrug:

I just don't believe that site. (The site sells drugs, too.) The list they have there would make all drug and alcohol testing worthless as anyone and everyone takes something on that list or at least they can say they use something on that list. I don't know where they get their info, but I can't believe it or drug testing is the biggest scandal in the US.

[Xenam]

While the bloodwork, alcohol in the stomach, and bottle in the car seem conclusive...

If this were diabetes, diabetics are held responsible for maintaining their blood sugar, avoiding an attack, if they are to drive. It's much like driving drunk, if you drive with your blood sugar out of balance, and cause an accident due to that - it's the same thing as driving drunk (nearly).

So, if she were a diabetic, and started having trouble - she'd still be on the hook for the accident, in a fault situation. It's one of the awful things about being a diabetic - but there's no way you can let a person who might go 'strange', pass out, etc. drive on the roads otherwise. They usually keep some candy or donuts on hand to deal with problems.

Just addressing the diabetic comment. When someone has diabetes a low sugar level "attack" can occur suddenly and without warning even though they ARE monitoring their blood sugar so NO it is not anywhere near comparable to someone driving drunk. JMO

[AlohaRainbow]

I dunno.. It just doesn't make any sense to me at all .. I just have a feeling there is more to this.

i think there's a lot more to the story, too...
really sad situation.

[aproudmom]

denial big time

[Nellie]

If I read correctly, she was driving her brother's van.....is that correct?
The article didn't make it sound like her brother and SIL went on this camping trip......just their kids? Is that correct?
I'm just trying to piece this together with what information is out there.
So, if she was driving her brother's van.....they would sue HIS insurance company, right? I need to go back and see what article said she was driving her brother's van....brb

[aproudmom]

While the bloodwork, alcohol in the stomach, and bottle in the car seem conclusive...

If this were diabetes, diabetics are held responsible for maintaining their blood sugar, avoiding an attack, if they are to drive. It's much like driving drunk, if you drive with your blood sugar out of balance, and cause an accident due to that - it's the same thing as driving drunk (nearly).

So, if she were a diabetic, and started having trouble - she'd still be on the hook for the accident, in a fault situation. It's one of the awful things about being a diabetic - but there's no way you can let a person who might go 'strange', pass out, etc. drive on the roads otherwise. They usually keep some candy or donuts on hand to deal with problems.

no very incorrect my sister is diabetic her sugar can drop at anytime not that I think that is what caused it but tonight it happened to my sister she was sitting up just fine then boom she felt dizzy so I had to get her some juice and a piece of candy..if she had been driving if she could not have got out of traffic in seconds I don't know that she would be safe driving..

[Nellie]

By late Friday, investigators had gleaned a meaningful clue: The last call made from the cellphone was at 1:02 p.m. the previous Sunday — apparently from Ms. Schuler to her brother, said Lieutenant Chiumento. At 1:15 p.m., the phone began to log missed calls, he said.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/03/nyregion/03crash.html

This indicates that someone (probably her brother) was trying to call her after she discarded her phone.

And this contradicts the erratic driving reports, doesn't it?

The police received about six 911 calls from motorists just before the crash. “Nobody, to this point, has indicated she was weaving or driving erratically,” Lieutenant Chiumento said.

[Nellie]

Found it! This says the van belonged to her brother!

On July 26, Ms. Schuler left the campground at the edge of the Catskills with all five children in the Ford Windstar that belonged to her brother. Mr. Schuler left in a gray pickup with the family dog.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/nyregion/06crash.html?pagewanted=2

[AlohaRainbow]

I just don't believe that site. (The site sells drugs, too.) The list they have there would make all drug and alcohol testing worthless as anyone and everyone takes something on that list or at least they can say they use something on that list. I don't know where they get their info, but I can't believe it or drug testing is the biggest scandal in the US.
:laugh: it seems that website presents "false-positive friendly" info to employees who test positive for drugs and want to contest the results.

and i don't think the driver in this case actually had false positive results.

very strange circumstances. it does seems as though there's a large piece of the info puzzle missing.

[Lavinia]

:laugh: it seems that website presents "false-positive friendly" info to employees who test positive for drugs and want to contest the results.

and i don't think the driver in this case actually had false positive results.

very strange circumstances. it does seems as though there's a large piece of the info puzzle missing.

I agree AR! :laugh: Someting wrong, both with that site and this story. I will certainly be following this but I'm afraid we will be frustrated for doing so. There may never be an answer. I sure wish the best for the families. They have a very long roe to hoe and their situation is one that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy (if I had one). :sad:

[aproudmom]

My husband has diabetes and yes you can get EXTREMELY disoriented and your vision becomes blurry due to low sugar levels. He has had a couple of episodes and the he now carries a candy bar with him at all times and orange juice. Blood sugar fluctuates which is why diabetics have to test themselves throughout the day to monitor it. It also comes on suddenly; sometimes with no warning. I worry about him every single day because he drives sometimes long distances.

5 Things You Need to Know About Recognizing Low Blood Sugar Symptoms In Diabetics

1. Watch for the Symptoms

Each diabetic will have different symptoms of low blood sugar level. The early symptoms range from anxiety, irritability and confusion. Having dizziness, shaking, disorientation and a pounding heart is common. The symptoms progress to a bad headache, poor coordination, extreme tingling in the body and numbness in the mouth and tongue. A diabetic may pass out during an extreme blood sugar attack or have convulsions or seizures. Recognizing low blood sugar symptoms in diabetics is challenging. The individual may not realize the attack is coming on even if questioned by others. (more)

http://www.livestrong.com/article/4921-need-recognizing-low-blood-sugar/

very very scary I know that I think tonight was the worse for me when my preg lil sis sugar dropped so fast I did not know if I could even get the the candy and juice to her I thought she was going to pass out and she checks her sugar 4 times a day and is on insulin it seems like it has got worse since she got preg..

[Lavinia]

very very scary I know that I think tonight was the worse for me when my preg lil sis sugar dropped so fast I did not know if I could even get the the candy and juice to her I thought she was going to pass out and she checks her sugar 4 times a day and is on insulin it seems like it has got worse since she got preg..

It often does get worse during pregnancy APM. Is she being followed by an endocrinologist?

[AlohaRainbow]

Found it! This says the van belonged to her brother!

Quote:
On July 26, Ms. Schuler left the campground at the edge of the Catskills with all five children in the Ford Windstar that belonged to her brother. Mr. Schuler left in a gray pickup with the family dog.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/06/nyregion/06crash.html?pagewanted=2

interesting. [eta - i'll bet there will be suits and counter-suits]
i bet that the families of the victims will add ford into their lawsuit (perhaps even the spouse of the driver might join in the suit). i could also see some of the victims' families suing the owner of the car (the driver's brother), alleging that he didn't keep it properly maintained or some such thing... it's interesting to see how creative plaintiff lawyers can be when it comes to horrific accidents...

i'm familiar with a case in which the driver had thc in his system and apparently ran a stop sign before colliding with another vehicle. he (the driver) died, and his child was severely injured. his estate is suing the other driver, as well as the car rental company (it was a rented car - alleging that they rented out a car that they knew was unsafe), the car manufacturer (alleging insufficient and/or faulty airbags, etc.), and the county (alleging the intersection was faulty, etc).

[Nellie]

so it wont be the husband, it will be the brother that is held responsible for his sisters actions?

the brother told her to pull over immediately and then he called the police, what more could he do, i would say once he told her to pull over he was off the hook and she was driving without permission

My heart goes out to these people.
I can't even imagine the fear I'd feel for my child after getting a call like that. His last conversation with his daughter was her being afraid. How incredibly sad.

One other thing that didn't "sound right" to me.
Her husband said that she didn't drink the Vodka....that he did.
But then he said she was very frugal with it, packing the same bottle time after time. Something about that "just isn't right". And like I already said.....why bring it if you're not going to drink it. BUT, if she didn't drink it anyway....and he was the one who drank it...then it would be HE who would be "frugal" with it, wouldn't it? Then he stated that the bottle would last "us" a year. That indicates to me that she did drink it as well as him. And like I said, how would he know it was always the same bottle? Was their something "special/different" about that bottle? If so, how would he know whether she refilled it or not?
Just thoughts going through my mind. Gotta head to bed.

[aproudmom]

:laugh: it seems that website presents "false-positive friendly" info to employees who test positive for drugs and want to contest the results.

and i don't think the driver in this case actually had false positive results.

very strange circumstances. it does seems as though there's a large piece of the info puzzle missing.

I have heard of false positive preg test..lol..is that the same thing..she was drunk if it was in her system no getting around a tox test..very sad story,..

[Rucky*Ron]

My heart goes out to these people.
I can't even imagine the fear I'd feel for my child after getting a call like that. His last conversation with his daughter was her being afraid. How incredibly sad.

One other thing that didn't "sound right" to me.
[Her husband said that she didn't drink the Vodka....that he did.
But then he said she was very frugal with it, packing the same bottle time after time. Something about that "just isn't right". And like I already said.....why bring it if you're not going to drink it. BUT, if she didn't drink it anyway....and he was the one who drank it...then it would be HE who would be "frugal" with it, wouldn't it? Then he stated that the bottle would last "us" a year. That indicates to me that she did drink it as well as him. And like I said, how would he know it was always the same bottle? Was their something "special/different" about that bottle? If so, how would he know whether she refilled it or not?
Just thoughts going through my mind. Gotta head to bed.

So explain how 6 grams were found in HER stomach?
This family is going to be hit hard when the truth finally sinks in.
How sad.

[Xenam]

Interesting article on glucose levels re: alcohol v diabetic hypoglycemia and how it is differentiated when conducting post-mortal exam on pilots in aircraft accidents:

The specific aspects and pitfalls regarding the assessment of the postmortal alcohol detection, the diagnostics of chronic alcohol abuse, the analysis of POL substances and combustion gases, the diagnostics of disturbances of the glucose metabolism and the microscopic examination of the heart will be discussed.


http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public/PubFullText/RTO/EN/RTO-EN-HFM-113/EN-HFM-113-05.pdf

[Nellie]

So explain how 6 grams were found in HER stomach?
This family is going to be hit hard when the truth finally sinks in.
How sad.

Hey.....I think she drank it.
I have a sister who used to drink and drive and use drugs (she finally quit, I think!). But, her history was drinking and using drugs and driving.
And yet, one time she was pulled over by a cop and hauled off to jail and my mom, even though she knew her history, defended her and was mad at the cops! And she was mad at the unknown person that was travelling the highway and called the police because of her driving.
So, even though mom knew, she still denied it and was making all kinds of excuses. It happens.

[Why]

I think that's it's probable that she did not drink on a regular basis but because she had tooth pain, she started drinking to escape the pain. So maybe she wasn't an alcoholic but was trying anything to drown out what she was feeling at the time. If she was driving erratically, it's probably because she was trying to get home as soon as she could so that she could lie down or something. She probably pulled over a few times (including the MCD trip) and that's why it took her 4 hours to go 90 miles.

That pain in her tooth was "controlling" how she reacted to everything that day. The tooth hurts -- so she drinks. The tooth hurts -- so she tries anything to get home as soon as possible. She wants to be in her own bed to lie down. She exits off the ramp to talk on the phone to her brother and tries to gather herself for a few moments. She then takes that same ramp and goes in the wrong direction. One of the weird things is that she is so out of it that she doesn't even notice that she is on the left side of the expressway instead of the right. She also doesn't notice that cars are coming in her direction and trying to let her know that she is going the wrong way.

[Lavinia]

Interesting article on glucose levels re: alcohol v diabetic hypoglycemia and how it is differentiated when conducting post-mortal exam on pilots in aircraft accidents:

The specific aspects and pitfalls regarding the assessment of the postmortal alcohol detection, the diagnostics of chronic alcohol abuse, the analysis of POL substances and combustion gases, the diagnostics of disturbances of the glucose metabolism and the microscopic examination of the heart will be discussed.


http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public/PubFullText/RTO/EN/RTO-EN-HFM-113/EN-HFM-113-05.pdf

Thanks, I'm slogging through it. :tongueside:

[Heidi J.]

so it wont be the husband, it will be the brother that is held responsible for his sisters actions?

the brother told her to pull over immediately and then he called the police, what more could he do, i would say once he told her to pull over he was off the hook and she was driving without permission

If he knew she was a closet alcoholic.. no way would he let her drive with his children.. :crying:

[Nellie]

Many families drink together and never think they drink too much.
I've been to plenty of family events where several are drinking all day long and none of them would think the other has a "problem". They're just "having a good time". Not saying that happened here but just saying people are good at denying drinking is a problem.

[Lady_Jean_La]

So, there is no info out there if the children had been properly restrained in car seats/seat belts or if any of them were sitting in the front seat?

Wouldn't that be in the police report?

[Heidi J.]

I think that's it's probable that she did not drink on a regular basis but because she had tooth pain, she started drinking to escape the pain. So maybe she wasn't an alcoholic but was trying anything to drown out what she was feeling at the time. If she was driving erratically, it's probably because she was trying to get home as soon as she could so that she could lie down or something. She probably pulled over a few times (including the MCD trip) and that's why it took her 4 hours to go 90 miles.

That pain in her tooth was "controlling" how she reacted to everything that day. The tooth hurts -- so she drinks. The tooth hurts -- so she tries anything to get home as soon as possible. She wants to be in her own bed to lie down. She exits off the ramp to talk on the phone to her brother and tries to gather herself for a few moments. She then takes that same ramp and goes in the wrong direction. One of the weird things is that she is so out of it that she doesn't even notice that she is on the left side of the expressway instead of the right. She also doesn't notice that cars are coming in her direction and trying to let her know that she is going the wrong way.

I don't buy that.. I have had an abscessed tooth, and while I have wanted to jab a screwdriver into my mouth to relieve the pain, I have never made rash decisions while in this pain.. I can't put my thumb on it, but something is just "off" with this story.

I am not sure if the weed played a role in this at all. THC will stay in your system for 30 days, so because she tested positive for it doesn't mean she had smoked it recently. I also mention before that she may not have even smoked it, she could have eaten it, possibly with out knowing it. I am a year younger then Diane, I have smoked pot occasionally through out my life. Never have I ever had a problem. But my best friend, on the other hand.. it makes her really ill to smoke it. She has a total different reaction to it then I do. With Diane having other medical issues, and possible popping other pain meds because of her tooth, all this was a bad mixture. It has not been stated if she was being treated with pain meds for the tooth. But I was given Vicodin, when I had a bad tooth.

I still can't get over the alcohol in her stomach though.. that totally blows my mind.

[Lady_Jean_La]

While the bloodwork, alcohol in the stomach, and bottle in the car seem conclusive...

If this were diabetes, diabetics are held responsible for maintaining their blood sugar, avoiding an attack, if they are to drive. It's much like driving drunk, if you drive with your blood sugar out of balance, and cause an accident due to that - it's the same thing as driving drunk (nearly).

So, if she were a diabetic, and started having trouble - she'd still be on the hook for the accident, in a fault situation. It's one of the awful things about being a diabetic - but there's no way you can let a person who might go 'strange', pass out, etc. drive on the roads otherwise. They usually keep some candy or donuts on hand to deal with problems.

Absolutely. It is just society would treat a person more harshly for drinking than a medical condition. imo

[AZCHARGED]

Many families drink together and never think they drink too much.
I've been to plenty of family events where several are drinking all day long and none of them would think the other has a "problem". They're just "having a good time". Not saying that happened here but just saying people are good at denying drinking is a problem.

Agree. And these same people might think it's normal to carry around a "spare" bottle of vodka in your vehicle, while transporting your children and others'.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Anyone with diabetes would be very aware when he/she is having either high or low glucose levels.

Also, where is her insulin?

Do you have a link to her requiring insulin?

[ExArkie]

Many families drink together and never think they drink too much.
I've been to plenty of family events where several are drinking all day long and none of them would think the other has a "problem". They're just "having a good time". Not saying that happened here but just saying people are good at denying drinking is a problem.

That certainly is true!! I remember once when we went to a hunting camp - which was being used as a family vacation site - no hunting - it was summer. The person who invited us had been drinking ALL day and he wanted my DH and I to go on a sight-seeing trip up the mountain in his car. I have NEVER felt so close to death in my life!:w00t: This was years ago when drinking and driving was a lot more accepted as "normal."

[Lady_Jean_La]

Why tote around a bottle of Vodka that you never drink?

BINGO! barf In case of snake bite.:tonguewag:

[Lady_Jean_La]

no very incorrect my sister is diabetic her sugar can drop at anytime not that I think that is what caused it but tonight it happened to my sister she was sitting up just fine then boom she felt dizzy so I had to get her some juice and a piece of candy..if she had been driving if she could not have got out of traffic in seconds I don't know that she would be safe driving..

In my state, if your sister reported that to her doctor, they might restrict or revoke her driving priviledges. Another reason to keep the condition secret. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

very very scary I know that I think tonight was the worse for me when my preg lil sis sugar dropped so fast I did not know if I could even get the the candy and juice to her I thought she was going to pass out and she checks her sugar 4 times a day and is on insulin it seems like it has got worse since she got preg..

Perhaps she should be checking her blood pressure also. imo

[ExArkie]

BINGO! barf In case of snake bite.:tonguewag:

Yes, if there were no bottle; I would agree that something is wrong with this scenario and that illness may be involved; but, there IS a bottle, sooooo......

[AJandTam]

What I just said....sounds like she was mad after talking with the brother. I have a sister who drank and did drugs and she would get very angry with anyone who would try to tell her she had too much to drink and drive. I think the brother knew she was drunk.....and I think she got angry with him for even suggesting it. I also think she may have been mad at her niece for calling him. She may have just headed away from home from her "intoxicated state".

JMO

You know Nellie, I really don't know alot about people who drink and do drugs, but what i'm wondering is if she was ok when she left, ok at McDonalds, maybe something happened that upset her bad, and this caused her to consume alot of booze and smoke the MJ really fast.. If someone is prone to turning to substances to cope w/thier lives anyhow, would they overdo it really fast and really furious if something upset them?? I know this sometimes happens. Kids pick up on something around them that they might not know is letting the cat out of the bag. I kind of wonder if that didn't happen here. She got mad, started drinking heavily in big swigs or something, 10 drinks wow.. plus the drugs..

[Lady_Jean_La]

Yes, if there were no bottle; I would agree that something is wrong with this scenario and that illness may be involved; but, there IS a bottle, sooooo......It would be interesting to know where the bottle came from and when it was pruchased. imo

[tv4me]

I'm thinking that wife and husband had a fight. It just seems strange that she has all the kids and he just takes the dog. I know everyone at the camp site said they were fine, but perhaps they just didn't like to fight in front of other people.

I don't believe for a minute that she was ill. I think she was drunk, high, mad and in a hurry to get home. If the husband said they carried a bottle of vodka in their car all the time....why was it found in the brother's van or was this a different bottle? I think that perhaps the entire family has a drinking problem, and it's ususally the people with the problem who deny that there is a problem.

all imo

[SavannahStar]

That's assuming it was her bottle or that she even knew it was there.

I just find this whole series of events very mysterious. Her husband, her family, her neighbors, the campground owners who knew the family for 4 years - none of them had ever see her drunk, most had never even seen her have a drink. All of a sudden she drinks a whole bottle of vodka and smokes pot in a matter of hours. I just think there has got to be something we don't know. This makes no sense.

Hopefully when the son recovers he will be able to shed some light on that day up until the point they got in the car.

I'm with you.

VERY mysterious.

[Lady_Jean_La]

That's assuming it was her bottle or that she even knew it was there.

I just find this whole series of events very mysterious. Her husband, her family, her neighbors, the campground owners who knew the family for 4 years - none of them had ever see her drunk, most had never even seen her have a drink. All of a sudden she drinks a whole bottle of vodka and smokes pot in a matter of hours. I just think there has got to be something we don't know. This makes no sense.

Hopefully when the son recovers he will be able to shed some light on that day up until the point they got in the car.

It will be interesting if the father does not permit the son to be questioned. imo

[Nellie]

That's assuming it was her bottle or that she even knew it was there.

I just find this whole series of events very mysterious. Her husband, her family, her neighbors, the campground owners who knew the family for 4 years - none of them had ever see her drunk, most had never even seen her have a drink. All of a sudden she drinks a whole bottle of vodka and smokes pot in a matter of hours. I just think there has got to be something we don't know. This makes no sense.

Hopefully when the son recovers he will be able to shed some light on that day up until the point they got in the car.

Husband said she always packed the bottle of Vodka for these trips (even though she never drank it according to him but she was frugal with it). So by his admission about this bottle of Vodka, I'm convinced it was her bottle and she knew it was there.

[Nellie]

I'm thinking that wife and husband had a fight. It just seems strange that she has all the kids and he just takes the dog. I know everyone at the camp site said they were fine, but perhaps they just didn't like to fight in front of other people.

I don't believe for a minute that she was ill. I think she was drunk, high, mad and in a hurry to get home. If the husband said they carried a bottle of vodka in their car all the time....why was it found in the brother's van or was this a different bottle? I think that perhaps the entire family has a drinking problem, and it's ususally the people with the problem who deny that there is a problem.

all imo

I'm with you....I don't believe she was ill either.
And the discarding of the cell phone tells me she was angry.
You could be right.....
Something just isn't "right" with this story and hubby coming out so strongly to protest the autopsy reports.
I feel sad for this whole family.

[AJandTam]

That's assuming it was her bottle or that she even knew it was there.

I just find this whole series of events very mysterious. Her husband, her family, her neighbors, the campground owners who knew the family for 4 years - none of them had ever see her drunk, most had never even seen her have a drink. All of a sudden she drinks a whole bottle of vodka and smokes pot in a matter of hours. I just think there has got to be something we don't know. This makes no sense.

Hopefully when the son recovers he will be able to shed some light on that day up until the point they got in the car.

It seems like she was very good at hiding it. This is my take on it. She has two different substances in her system, you can't inadvertently accidently end up w/10 drinks in your system..plus the MJ. I wouldn't think that beings she was out of town and it was a sunday morning, she could have picked this stuff up on the fly, I think she had it w/her to begin w/.. If she just had the MJ in her system then I might buy someone put it in her food at McDonalds maybe some stupid giggling teen or something but the two combined. I don't buy she didn't do this herself..I think the real problem here is that this women was not the kind of women we would think capable of this and we just don't want to believe it's true, but i think it is.

[Heidi J.]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,538485,00.html

"They were known — because they were not drinkers — to carry the same bottle of vodka for the whole season back and forth, because Daniel liked to have a drink every once in a while at home," Tom Ruskin, the Schuler family's private investigator, said in an interview on the "Today" show Friday.

"So they would use the same bottle of vodka," Ruskin said. "They did carry it open sometimes in the back of the car in one of their bags.

One of Diane's drinking buddies has told The Post that her pal felt "trapped" in her marriage and regularly drowned her sorrows with vodka at a Long Island bar.

According to the autopsy report, Diane had downed the equivalent of 10 shots of vodka and had smoked marijuana anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour before steering her minivan full of kids the wrong way down the Taconic in Westchester County, N.Y.

[Nellie]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,538485,00.html

"They were known — because they were not drinkers — to carry the same bottle of vodka for the whole season back and forth, because Daniel liked to have a drink every once in a while at home," Tom Ruskin, the Schuler family's private investigator, said in an interview on the "Today" show Friday.

"So they would use the same bottle of vodka," Ruskin said. "They did carry it open sometimes in the back of the car in one of their bags.

One of Diane's drinking buddies has told The Post that her pal felt "trapped" in her marriage and regularly drowned her sorrows with vodka at a Long Island bar.

According to the autopsy report, Diane had downed the equivalent of 10 shots of vodka and had smoked marijuana anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour before steering her minivan full of kids the wrong way down the Taconic in Westchester County, N.Y.

I and my husband are truly non-drinkers. Non drinkers do NOT carry Vodka around. And what he is saying is making absolutely no sense!
If he liked to drink once in awhile at home, why tote the bottle away from home? Why are they trying to cover up her drinking? Guilty feelings? I think it would be hard to accept that you maybe could have done something different to save those children's lives. That's the only reason I can think of for all of the covering up of her drinking. Like I said, I could see my own mother do this with my sister. Alll my own opinon.

And now a "drinking buddy" comes forward? Non drinkers don't have drinking buddies.

[AJandTam]

I and my husband are truly non-drinkers. Non drinkers do NOT carry Vodka around. And what he is saying is making absolutely no sense!
If he liked to drink once in awhile at home, why tote the bottle away from home? Why are they trying to cover up her drinking? Guilty feelings? I think it would be hard to accept that you maybe could have done something different to save those children's lives. That's the only reason I can think of for all of the covering up of her drinking. Like I said, I could see my own mother do this with my sister. Alll my own opinon.

And now a "drinking buddy" comes forward? Non drinkers don't have drinking buddies.

Great post Nellie, You are right. I am a non drinker and I do not have any booze in my vehicle, nor do I make a point of taking it w/me if I leave home to go on any trips. And I certainly do not have any drinking buddies..

[AZCHARGED]

Wouldn't that be in the police report?

After seeing that burned out, smashed to he** shell of a vehicle afterward, it would have been better to have been thrown from it. Amazing that the one child survived.

[R~O~S]

It will be interesting if the father does not permit the son to be questioned. imo


Considering the serious nature of the childs injuries, it's not likely he's going to remember the circumstances leading up to the trauma that caused them. Since he's already talking/conscious, I would think they'd know by now if he remembers anything. Since he's not going to be questioned as a suspect, but a witness, I don't think the dad can keep them from questioning him.

I certainly wish for him a full recovery.

On the subject of the bottle in the car, DH and I would be considered social drinkers at best. The DH does enjoy a beer at a game or family event. We've been known to have a drink or two while on vacation.

We do not carry a bottle of hard liquor with us in the car. I can't even imagine doing that. The story just doesn't sound plausible. A bottle of liquor would be right behind a bag of cat litter on the vacation packing list especially when the children were little.

For heavens sakes, we go to an island off the cape for two weeks at a time and we do not bring liquor with us. There's no place to buy on the island & the ferry comes and goes less than once a day. I really have to believe if we don't do this, it would be rare indeed for a social drinker to carry a bottle of vodka as a routine let alone a near tea total-er.

[Xenam]

Anyone with diabetes would be very aware when he/she is having either high or low glucose levels.

Also, where is her insulin?

This statement is absolutely INCORRECT!!!! Has nothing to do with this woman -- but a diabetes attack can occur SUDDENLY and WITHOUT WARNING

[ruth66]

Great post Nellie, You are right. I am a non drinker and I do not have any booze in my vehicle, nor do I make a point of taking it w/me if I leave home to go on any trips. And I certainly do not have any drinking buddies..

ITA AJandTam. In my experience drinkers aren't that fond of hanging out with non drinkers at bars either.

I had a friend that I had known for several years before she told me that she was an alcoholic. I had lunch with this friend several times a week and would never have guessed. Her choice of alcoholic beverage was vodka which she explained could not be smelled on your breath as easily. Had she not told me her secret I would of never known, I did not suspect it in the least. Needless to say, I never let my children be driven in a vehicle by her after that. I feel for those children in the car especially the child that spoke to her father on the phone and described her aunt's behavior. Those poor innocent children.
JMO

[AJandTam]

This statement is absolutely INCORRECT!!!! Has nothing to do with this woman -- but a diabetes attack can occur SUDDENLY and WITHOUT WARNING

YES it most certainly can. I had my own experience w/that. I was working in the garden w/my husband when I passed out. After he came to my rescue, we happened to have had a blood testing machine on hand, and he tested my sugar. It was infact, dangerously low.

However, I don't think diabetes played a role here. I think it was the booze and MJ. JMO

[Xenam]

IMO I believe Diane and her husband had a fight that morning and she was angry with him. Also she worked days and her husband worked nights so it is very possible he was unaware of her drinking even though my hubby says that is BS (just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt)

On our local news (I live on LI) I saw this woman (Sheila) being interviewed:

Schuler, a manager in Cablevision's accounting department, would suck down screwdrivers at a Long Island saloon, where she was a regular the past few years and usually came by herself, her pal said, adding:

"I wouldn't say she was an alcoholic, but she liked her drinks.

"She liked her vodka."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08062009/news/regionalnews/wed_woes_drove_crash_ma_to_drink_183240.htm?page=0

[AJandTam]

ITA AJandTam. In my experience drinkers aren't that fond of hanging out with non drinkers at bars either.

I had a friend that I had known for several years before she told me that she was an alcoholic. I had lunch with this friend several times a week and would never have guessed. Her choice of alcoholic beverage was vodka which she explained could not be smelled on your breath as easily. Had she not told me her secret I would of never known, I did not suspect it in the least. Needless to say, I never let my children be driven in a vehicle by her after that. I feel for those children in the car especially the child that spoke to her father on the phone and described her aunt's behavior. Those poor innocent children.
JMO

Yep, years ago, I knew a guy in the marines who was pretty high up. He drank almost 24 hours a day, his GF said that he would wake up in the middle of the night and take a swig, then go back to sleep and would drink all day every day. Before and after work and during the night. You can bet he was most likely drinking at work too, but over the years I knew him. The miliatary never found out... and he never got into trouble for it. At least not during the years that I knew him.

Yes, that poor child knew that they were in a dangerous situation. Sadly, I think she tried to do something but there was just nothing the poor little darlin' could do. Bless her heart.

[Xenam]

YES it most certainly can. I had my own experience w/that. I was working in the garden w/my husband when I passed out. After he came to my rescue, we happened to have had a blood testing machine on hand, and he tested my sugar. It was infact, dangerously low.

However, I don't think diabetes played a role here. I think it was the booze and MJ. JMO

Oh I agree with you -- don't think it was diabetes either; just wanted to address the incorrect statement. My hubby is a diabetic; Type II - does not take insulin but takes medication 2x a day - but occasionally for some reason his blood sugar level drops dramatically with no warning - just thank goodness his worst attacks have been when he was not driving. He is working with his Dr now keeping very stringent records because the medication taken 2x a day may have been just too strong and took his blood sugar levels to low

The marijuana though can stay in your system up to 30 days IIRC.

[Xenam]

Yep, years ago, I knew a guy in the marines who was pretty high up. He drank almost 24 hours a day, his GF said that he would wake up in the middle of the night and take a swig, then go back to sleep and would drink all day every day. Before and after work and during the night. You can bet he was most likely drinking at work too, but over the years I knew him. The miliatary never found out... and he never got into trouble for it. At least not during the years that I knew him.

Yes, that poor child knew that they were in a dangerous situation. Sadly, I think she tried to do something but there was just nothing the poor little darlin' could do. Bless her heart.

I cannot imagine the fear she must have felt as she watched her aunt drinking.

:rose:

[Lavinia]

To be fair, it's Fox News who characterizes Diane Schuler's friend as a "drinking buddy". However, things don't look good. :sad:

[Xenam]

To be fair, it's Fox News who characterizes Diane Schuler's friend as a "drinking buddy". However, things don't look good. :sad:

This is true Lavinia -- but I did see the woman being interviewed and she pretty much said the same thing that is in the article.
I did edit my post as well to remove the "drinking buddy" designation because I don't think it fit. JMO

[R~O~S]

This statement is absolutely INCORRECT!!!! Has nothing to do with this woman -- but a diabetes attack can occur SUDDENLY and WITHOUT WARNING

Although this is true in a brittle diabetic, I don't understand why it's being debated.

The woman had gestational diabetes while pregnant, she wasn't a brittle diabetic on insulin & if she indulged in pina coladas she wasn't a type 1 or 2 diabetic that had to watch her diet.

http://news.aol.com/article/diane-schuler-in-new-york-crash/603338

Gestational diabetes almost always resolves with birth.

http://www.diabetes.org/gestational-diabetes.jsp

Gestational diabetes usually goes away after pregnancy. But once you've had gestational diabetes, your chances are 2 in 3 that it will return in future pregnancies. In a few women, however, pregnancy uncovers type 1 or type 2 diabetes. It is hard to tell whether these women have gestational diabetes or have just started showing their diabetes during pregnancy. These women will need to continue diabetes treatment after pregnancy.

Since the youngest child was 2 years old, she would have known if she was the rare person who's type 1 or 2 symptoms simply came to light at the time of pregnancy. She wouldn't have been diagnosed as gestational, treatment would have continued after birth for the condition.

I haven't seen anything to indicate Diane was pregnant at the time of the accident, has that been said, or is there an infant child that wasn't with her?

Knowing a brittle diabetic quite well, I can assure you an incident of high or low blood sugar would not allow for two or three hours of driving around in that condition. Minutes maybe, and walking would be a problem, let alone driving.

[AJandTam]

Oh I agree with you -- don't think it was diabetes either; just wanted to address the incorrect statement. My hubby is a diabetic; Type II - does not take insulin but takes medication 2x a day - but occasionally for some reason his blood sugar level drops dramatically with no warning - just thank goodness his worst attacks have been when he was not driving. He is working with his Dr now keeping very stringent records because the medication taken 2x a day may have been just too strong.

The marijuana though can stay in your system up to 30 days IIRC.

I hope the record keeping helps limit the attacks he has. Sadly, when driving a vehicle medical issues can suddenly affect our driving but there really isn't anything you can do about it. People have to drive. We can have a stroke, a brain aneurism, a diabetic attack or a heart attack at any time, all we can do is tackle known issues the best we can.

It sounds like all of the lab test and autospies did prove that she was impaired by substances. They know way more about that then I do. So i've been going w/what the science says. .

[Lavinia]

This is true Lavinia -- but I did see the woman being interviewed and she pretty much said the same thing that is in the article.
I did edit my post as well to remove the "drinking buddy" designation because I don't think it fit. JMO

Oh well, carp. Thanks Xenam. I'm hoping the family is just trying to cover for her then and they aren't in that kind of denial. I don't advocate covering for someone, but I think their pain will be a thousand fold if they are in denial about her habits. Just a horrible story.

[need2no]

What I find confusing is if this lady was indeed a non drinker, or rarely drank, it would only take one or two drinks to noticably affect her. After a couple of drinks she would have a 'buzz', been tipsy, perhaps felt light headed, and find it difficult to concentrate on driving & even staying in her lane. Yet with 5 children in the car this mother kept on drinking, and they are saying she had the equivalent of TEN drinks in her system, and THC! This sounds like a suicide mission to me.

I read Diane called her brother, and I've also read one of the nieces called him. I'm betting the niece called her dad because if Diane was having a problem driving it would seem to me she'd call her husband, not her brother.

Can you imagine the horror of the children, (at least the 7 and 8 year olds) when they saw Diane driving in the wrong direction.:scared:
I'm sure they must have told their Aunt she was going the wrong way as they sat there horrified, scared, and unable to do a thing. How terribly sad, and heartbreaking for so many.

Don't know if this has been posted yet but there are 80 pics from this case:

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/daniel-schuler-subject-of-suffolk-cps-probe-sources-say-1.1355949

[Pat]

The family is horrified and the husband and lawyer are throwing up all kinds of excuses and hoping something will stick. Like the alleged diabetes and "lump" that was moving and the tooth. It will all come out in the autopsy report, of course, but in the meantime, there is the pesky issue of public perception.

There is more to come regarding this woman, her husband and their life together.

There were other victims in this horrific accident who were not her kin. I hope people are thinking of them and praying for their families. They, along with the children in her van, are the real innocents in this.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Considering the serious nature of the childs injuries, it's not likely he's going to remember the circumstances leading up to the trauma that caused them. Since he's already talking/conscious, I would think they'd know by now if he remembers anything. Since he's not going to be questioned as a suspect, but a witness, I don't think the dad can keep them from questioning him.

I certainly wish for him a full recovery.

On the subject of the bottle in the car, DH and I would be considered social drinkers at best. The DH does enjoy a beer at a game or family event. We've been known to have a drink or two while on vacation.

We do not carry a bottle of hard liquor with us in the car. I can't even imagine doing that. The story just doesn't sound plausible. A bottle of liquor would be right behind a bag of cat litter on the vacation packing list especially when the children were little.

For heavens sakes, we go to an island off the cape for two weeks at a time and we do not bring liquor with us. There's no place to buy on the island & the ferry comes and goes less than once a day. I really have to believe if we don't do this, it would be rare indeed for a social drinker to carry a bottle of vodka as a routine let alone a near tea total-er.

It is all relative. I know people who think having 5 or six drinks after work is normal. I think it is difficult for a tea totaler to understand a drunks reasoning.

[Nellie]

So do I AJandTam.
I think the family is covering up or denying it because it's too hard to admit to themselves. What would be easier to accept?
1. She had a medical condition no one knew about and could do anything to prevent.
OR
2. We allowed the kids to go with her even though we know she drinks and we will have to live with the knowledge that we could have prevented it.
How sad. And those poor kids....just the fact the little girl called daddy tells me how scared they were. They knew they were in danger from her driving!
This tragedy makes me both sad and angry.

And her husband's explanation for why they found a vodka bottle under the seat is lame. For non-drinkers, it seems this bottle of vodka was way too important.

I wonder why she had her brother's van. Did he and his wife go with them on this camping trip? I'll have to go research the early reports. I know one of the early reports said LE did not suspect alcohol was involved....but then the reports came back! So, it shows they didn't zero in to pinpoint it on alcohol right off the bat.

I think the husband's adamant denial of her drinking is making matters worse. It will make the survivors of the other 3 dead men even angrier....and who can blame them?

Another thought crossed my mind. If this van was equipped with the little tvs in the ceiling, the kids could have easily been zoned in on a movie and been totally unaware that she was drinking.

[Dunlurken]

She was drunk, IMO. Toxicology doesn't lie. She probably didn't have a drink for two days or so, got in her car and went overboard. Vodka doesn't leave a smell on your breath, IIRC. Just watch the movie with Meg Ryan.....

Alcoholics can be very "cunning". Her husband probably didn't know. JMO.

[Lavinia]

IMO I believe Diane and her husband had a fight that morning and she was angry with him. Also she worked days and her husband worked nights so it is very possible he was unaware of her drinking even though my hubby says that is BS (just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt)

On our local news (I live on LI) I saw this woman (Sheila) being interviewed:

Schuler, a manager in Cablevision's accounting department, would suck down screwdrivers at a Long Island saloon, where she was a regular the past few years and usually came by herself, her pal said, adding:

"I wouldn't say she was an alcoholic, but she liked her drinks.

"She liked her vodka."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08062009/news/regionalnews/wed_woes_drove_crash_ma_to_drink_183240.htm?page=0

Ugh. I just got to this post. I guess the speculation is over for me.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Although this is true in a brittle diabetic, I don't understand why it's being debated.

The woman had gestational diabetes while pregnant, she wasn't a brittle diabetic on insulin & if she indulged in pina coladas she wasn't a type 1 or 2 diabetic that had to watch her diet.

http://news.aol.com/article/diane-schuler-in-new-york-crash/603338

Gestational diabetes almost always resolves with birth.

http://www.diabetes.org/gestational-diabetes.jsp



Since the youngest child was 2 years old, she would have known if she was the rare person who's type 1 or 2 symptoms simply came to light at the time of pregnancy. She wouldn't have been diagnosed as gestational, treatment would have continued after birth for the condition.

I haven't seen anything to indicate Diane was pregnant at the time of the accident, has that been said, or is there an infant child that wasn't with her?

Knowing a brittle diabetic quite well, I can assure you an incident of high or low blood sugar would not allow for two or three hours of driving around in that condition. Minutes maybe, and walking would be a problem, let alone driving.

I think the alcohol was enough.

[Dunlurken]

The husband better keep his big trap shut, or else the last child will be taken away from him. He probably was smoking too. JMO.

[R~O~S]

I think the alcohol was enough.

I think the ME is making it clear when saying there was undigested alcohol in her stomach, that there was no mistake in the blood draw. They know the difference between her blood absorption level and what was in her stomach.

I think she was smashed, I think they had a fight and that's why she called her brother instead of her husband.

What I can't fathom is why she didn't pull off the road and stay put if she knew she was confused and having difficulty seeing.

I don't drive at night, I'm night blind, I wasn't always, I have a degenerative vision condition. I would walk before I'd voluntarily drive a car at night & I'm usually alone in the car, my children are grown.

I can't imagine a mother putting her children in that situation, driving while having vision issues, regardless of the source of the problem.

[ruth66]

What I find confusing is if this lady was indeed a non drinker, or rarely drank, it would only take one or two drinks to noticably affect her. After a couple of drinks she would have a 'buzz', been tipsy, perhaps felt light headed, and find it difficult to concentrate on driving & even staying in her lane. Yet with 5 children in the car this mother kept on drinking, and they are saying she had the equivalent of TEN drinks in her system, and THC! This sounds like a suicide mission to me.

I read Diane called her brother, and I've also read one of the nieces called him. I'm betting the niece called her dad because if Diane was having a problem driving it would seem to me she'd call her husband, not her brother.

Can you imagine the horror of the children, (at least the 7 and 8 year olds) when they saw Diane driving in the wrong direction.:scared:
I'm sure they must have told their Aunt she was going the wrong way as they sat there horrified, scared, and unable to do a thing. How terribly sad, and heartbreaking for so many.

Don't know if this has been posted yet but there are 80 pics from this case:

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/daniel-schuler-subject-of-suffolk-cps-probe-sources-say-1.1355949

Morbid question here but looking through those pictures and reading the captions below them, was there only one casket for all the members of the Shuler and Hance families? This is the caption below a picture of a single casket being carried out of the church; "Pallbearers carry the coffins of members of the Hance and Schuler family out of Our Lady of Victory Church in Floral Park after the funeral". (Photo by Howard Schnapp/July 30, 2009) Credit: Photo by Howard Schnapp (32 of 80)

Does anyone know?

Never mind, I just saw a picture of several hursts leaving the church. Please disregard

[Nellie]

The husband better keep his big trap shut, or else the last child will be taken away from him. He probably was smoking too. JMO.

......the thought has crossed my mind....

Something else I thought of...
What if her brother and sister-in-law (parents of the cousins that died) truly were unaware of her drinking....but hubby wasn't. You wouldn't want to let them know that you knew she drinks like that! That could be a reason for such protest against the drinking evidence. Or if you had been drinking with her on this camping trip....maybe even got in a fight with her and she took off angry.....you wouldn't want to tell her brother that. The brother truly seems shocked in news articles I've been reading. I wonder how "close" they were.

[Nellie]

I think the ME is making it clear when saying there was undigested alcohol in her stomach, that there was no mistake in the blood draw. They know the difference between her blood absorption level and what was in her stomach.

I think she was smashed, I think they had a fight and that's why she called her brother instead of her husband.

What I can't fathom is why she didn't pull off the road and stay put if she knew she was confused and having difficulty seeing.

I don't drive at night, I'm night blind, I wasn't always, I have a degenerative vision condition. I would walk before I'd voluntarily drive a car at night & I'm usually alone in the car, my children are grown.

I can't imagine a mother putting her children in that situation, driving while having vision issues, regardless of the source of the problem.

Personally, I don't think she ever did call her brother to tell his she was disorientated. I believe her niece got scared and called her daddy. Then they were disconnected and he called back and Diane answered the phone and they talked for 8-9 minutes....then she threw the phone out the window and drove off. I don't think she ever admitted to herself or anyone else that she was incapable of driving! JMO The drunk ones never do admit they've had too much. I'd like to kow what the conversation was with her brother. Was he trying to convince her she was too drunk to drive?

This is just so sad.

[ABC]

She was drunk, IMO. Toxicology doesn't lie. She probably didn't have a drink for two days or so, got in her car and went overboard. Vodka doesn't leave a smell on your breath, IIRC. Just watch the movie with Meg Ryan.....

Alcoholics can be very "cunning". Her husband probably didn't know. JMO.
Not so. All byproducts of alcohol leave a smell on the breath. My quess is she was drinking the night before, was still half in the bag in the morning and her alcohol level jumped right up again when she started drinking in the AM. Of course the husband knew. Whats with "she didn't drive drunk"? How does he know that and sadly, she obviously did. Drunks are not that clever and although they believe "nobody knows", in fact everybody knows. Their faces betray them too from being puffed up, tired eyes and red spots.

[Xenam]

Morbid question here but looking through those pictures and reading the captions below them, was there only one casket for all the members of the Shuler and Hance families? This is the caption below a picture of a single casket being carried out of the church; "Pallbearers carry the coffins of members of the Hance and Schuler family out of Our Lady of Victory Church in Floral Park after the funeral". (Photo by Howard Schnapp/July 30, 2009) Credit: Photo by Howard Schnapp (32 of 80)

Does anyone know?

Never mind, I just saw a picture of several hursts leaving the church. Please disregard

Each family member had their own hearse:

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/galleries/funeral_for_lives_lost_in_taconic_parkway_accident/funeral_for_lives_lost_in_taconic_parkway_accident .html#ph6

[AnniePie]

Ibuprofen, diabetes and kidney problems can all cause false positives for marijuana.

Diabetes and Kidney disease can cause false positives for alchol. She had an abcess on her tooth - I would take ibuprofen ( anti-inflammatory) if I had that.

Not being able to see right, feeling disoriented would coincide with a low blood sugar level which could be indicative of diabetes.

I'm telling you the phone call just isn't sitting right with me... she would not have made that call if she was a closet alcoholic IMO.

Nope. I'm sorry, that's just not true.

[airportwoman]

Anyone with diabetes would be very aware when he/she is having either high or low glucose levels.

Also, where is her insulin?

Most diabetics do not use insulin. Of course, all Type I's do but most Type II's do not.

[AnniePie]

It will be interesting if the father does not permit the son to be questioned. imo

If my five year old son had been in an excrutiating experience like this, I don't think I'd allow him to be questioned. It wouldn't necessarily mean that I had anything to hide. I'd just want to keep him from being more emotionally scarred than he already had been.

[ABC]

Most diabetics do not use insulin. Of course, all Type I's do but most Type II's do not.

No, Type 11 do not which is why I disagree with calling it diabetis and should be X.

[Lavinia]

No, Type 11 do not which is why I disagree with calling it diabetis and should be X.

Some type 2 diabetics require insulin. They both (Type 1 and 2 diabetes) still have the same effect on the body causing CV disease, infections, eye problems, stroke, etc., although in Type 1 in can be more pronounced.

[Rucky*Ron]

That's assuming it was her bottle or that she even knew it was there.

I just find this whole series of events very mysterious. Her husband, her family, her neighbors, the campground owners who knew the family for 4 years - none of them had ever see her drunk, most had never even seen her have a drink. All of a sudden she drinks a whole bottle of vodka and smokes pot in a matter of hours. I just think there has got to be something we don't know. This makes no sense.

Hopefully when the son recovers he will be able to shed some light on that day up until the point they got in the car.

I guess it's possible the weekend away from "her drinking" could have caused her to consume too much too fast when she finally got the chance..

As for the diabetes..... if it was gestational as suggested.... that would have disappeared after the birth.
Her baby was two.

[Shells2]

Nope. I'm sorry, that's just not true.

Unfortunately, it is.

I provided links to back this up.