8/5

[on board!]

I participated in the discussion during the trial and registered to share this BREAKING NEWS:

After Michael Jackson's death the former witness Azja Pryor spoke out on Access Hollywood: She spoke to the accuser several times a day, also on a day he later claimed he's been molested. The accuser begged to sleep in Michael's room even when he wasn't on Neverland.

She called the now adult to speak out and accuses him for his false allegations. Azja doesn't know how the family could sleep at night knowing the Gavin was never ever touched by Michael Jackson. She also wrote an open letter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcXi3HHTIOY
tv version

http://www.accesshollywood.com/azja-pryor
(interview; extended version)

http://www.accesshollywood.com/azja-pryor-calls-for-michael-jacksons-2005-molestation-accuser-to-do-the-right-thing_article_20517
(article)

The tv version is phenomenal. What a genuine, straight forward woman!

[CinderL.]

Kathrine Jackson wants another autopsy.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08052009/news/nationalnews/jackos_ma_cries_murder__183037.htm

[who_is_it]

CINDER from yesterday's thread
Night all. I will be having nightmares about dolls, monkeys, and CLOWNS. Thank you very much. :laugh::laugh::seeya:

I had to laugh... and hope you didn't have nightmares. :-)

[who_is_it]

@ aproudmom (referring to yesterday's post)

Yes, I've seen the video. He looked old.

[GentleBreeze]

I am bringing this post over from the yesterday's thread.

mrsmcgoo
Registered User Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: ~~In Memory Of My Dear Sweet Friend Sammie....Who Will Always Hold A Place In My Heart~~
Posts: 508

Quote:

I respectfully disagree with you. Yes, there is not doutb that MJ donated alot of money, but others have contributed to try and make this world a better. Many, many famous people have given back through awareness and celebrity. Princess Diana was wonderful to children and continued to make appearances up until her death.

Others, such as Bono, Oprah, Elton John, and George Clooney come quickly to mind. I am sure I am missing more as well.

Here is a link that will give you some insight into the work and dedication MANY celebrities have done and continue to do.

http://www.looktothestars.org/category/1-aids End of Quote:

I respectfully have to disagree with you. MJ did not raise money...he GAVE his half a billion to 30 charities. He is in the Guinness Book of World Records as giving more to charities than any other entertainer.

http://www.examiner.com/x-7230-Atlanta-Special-Needs-Kids-Examiner~y2009m6d25-Thank-You-Michael-Jackson-for-your-life-long-charity-work

Thank You Michael Jackson for your life long charity work

imo

[CinderL.]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0908/04/lkl.01.html
(snipped)

DiLeo obviously has his own take on events.

My impression of both DiLeo and AEG's Randy Phillips is that they are professional, articulate, and appear to be genuine. If Joe Jackson and his sidekick Leonard Rowe decides to take them on and make them part of some shadowy entourage that conspired to murder Michael Jackson, I think they will be formidable foes. imo.

Hi Zenyatta, thanks for posting the transcripts. Very interesting. I agree with you that Joe and Leonard have an uphill battle. I thought at one point MJ wasn't paying attention to his finances, and people were taking advantage of that lack of attention. It seems in the months before his death, he was getting a handle on his life. He hired back the attnys. and other people he had let go. It is sad, he was getting it together, but unfortunately couldn't get a handle on his drug use.

[CinderL.]

I had to laugh... and hope you didn't have nightmares. :-)

Ha, I did have weird dreams. :scared: No monkeys though. :laugh:

[CinderL.]

I think that's a really good assessment, CinderL.

I said it in an earlier post. I believe that based on what may be inconclusive or questionable results in the autopsy/toxicology reports, and the fact that getting any money from Dr. Murray in a civil suit might be akin to squeezing blood from a turnip, that Joe J (and sadly, Katherine) have decided to see if they have a chance at going after AEG's deep pockets in a wrongful death action.

Leonard Rowe has a motive for joining the madness. He is a disgruntled ex-employee who was fired by Michael once DiLeo came back on board and AEG came into the picture.

The thought once crossed my mind that Michael hadn't been buried yet because the family might consider a third autopsy if the first two weren't to their liking or didn't suit their purposes. I didn't say anything at the time because I thought it was a bit out there. imo

O/T Pennywise the clown was one of the scariest fictional characters ever. That is, if he was fictional....

I agree with all of your post......even the clown. :laugh:

[mrsmcgoo]

Gentlebreeze, I am not disputing that MJ gave millions to charities. :confused:

What I am saying is that MANY have given, made public appearances, even at the risk of their own safety on behalf of charities. I think we can at least give credit where it is due and not be offended that others have contributed to those in need.

JMO

[mrsmcgoo]

Kathrine Jackson wants another autopsy.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08052009/news/nationalnews/jackos_ma_cries_murder__183037.htm

I don't know what to think of this. It makes me think that the family is in denial of MJ's drug problems. As stated from this article, it doesn't matter how many times an autopsy is done, the results are the same. Even states that they will have a fourth and a fifth autopsy done until they get the results they want. Huh??? Do they think they can manipulate the results?

JMO

[CinderL.]

I don't know what to think of this. It makes me think that the family is in denial of MJ's drug problems. As stated from this article, it doesn't matter how many times an autopsy is done, the results are the same. Even states that they will have a fourth and a fifth autopsy done until they get the results they want. Huh??? Do they think they can manipulate the results?

JMO

I don't have any idea what they are thinking. The results will be the same I would think too.

[mrsmcgoo]

Thank you for posting the transcripts Zenyetta!

Very interesting reading. I wonder what business it was of Joe's and Katerine's to attend a meeting concerning MJ? Seems very strange to me.

I agree with you and Cinder, Joe and Rowe are in for a huge uphill battle. It sure sounds very creditible what Dileo is stating, more so than many speaking out since MJ's death. He actually sounds realistic!

JMO

[retiredcop]

I think it's appauling! She needs to lay her son's body to rest.

I certainly agree. If they are waiting for brain tissue that is unbelievable.
He certainly won't need it now. If their concern is it might be sold on ebay or something, they could stand by and watch it destroyed.

BTW anything new on the doll situation?


in my opinion of course

[retiredcop]

Kathrine Jackson wants another autopsy.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08052009/news/nationalnews/jackos_ma_cries_murder__183037.htm

I think this shows the results are not indicating a "homicide". This brings me right back to an accidental overdose either by his own hand or someone else's.

I don't think Dr Murrary will be arrested for anything in that regard. I think doctors may go down for drug violations like in the Anna Nicole Case, but who knows? That's hard to prove.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I agree they should be the same. However, sounds like she is specifically asking them to look for something else although I don't know what "it" could be. From your link:

"Katherine Jackson looked at the results of the second autopsy, and she wasn't happy with what it did not reveal to her,"

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08052009/news/nationalnews/jackos_ma_cries_murder__183037.htm

She wants someone charged with homicide.

in my opinion

[mrsmcgoo]

Hi CinderL and Mrs. McGoo,

I wish the Geraldo Rivera Show provided transcripts. I think you both would have found what Joe said to be interesting. Katherine backed him up. Basically they said that Dr. Murray was just the fall guy for a larger conspiracy that planned to kill Michael.

Michael's former plastic surgeon, Dr. Hoefflin, wrote a letter stating that he was authorized to speak on behalf of Joe and Katherine. He fingered Dr. Klein as being involved.

Whether or not there's even a scintilla of truth in any of it, it seems to be the direction Joe and Katherine are heading. Or were at the time.

I wish I would have taped it so I could watch it again, when I wasn't half asleep.

I hope Michael Jackson doesn't make the Guinness Book of World Records for having the most autopsies performed. Sorry, but they need to bury him, and move on. If for no other reason than the sake of Michael's children. imo


Hi!

Yes, I couldn't agree more! This man needs to be buried. It is getting to be the norm for celebrites to be dead weeks and even months before they are buried. (James Brown/Anna Nicole Smith)

I am puzzled whether the need to blame someone for their sons death is because Joe and Katherine are in denial, or they see dollar signs in their eyes and need to sue someone. But it is what it is. If Dr. Murray messed up, than yes he needs to be called on it. I question at this point whether anyone was aware of the amount of drugs MJ was doing, which I feel will be found as a contributing factor in his death.

JMO

[mrsmcgoo]

Just wondering if maybe the diprivan wasn't picked up in their private autopsy report. They got their report a few days after MJ's death. Maybe they did not test for it?


Maybe the case Xenam. I would think testing for Diprivan would have taken place since then though. I always thought that certain tests take longer than others, but that might just be for us common folk. lol

JMO

[mrsmcgoo]

I'm afraid that with Joe, it's dollar signs. IIRC, I don't think it was too long after Michael died that he first mentioned filing a wrongful death action.

I'm extremely disappointed in Katherine. She's not the person I thought she was, though I will concede that her grief may be affecting her logic.

My feeling is that it can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Diprivan was the drug solely responsible for Michael's death. If there were other drugs in his system, such as Demerol, and Murray didn't know that, he can claim that his lack of knowledge didn't allow him to make the necessary adjustments in the amount of Diprivan he administered.

Please know I'm not making excuses for Murray. Just trying to think of what his defense would be in a court of law, and that seems to align with Chernoff saying that Murray didn't give Michael anything that would kill him.

If this drags on for years and years, it can't help but have a detrimental effect on the children's lives if for no other reason than the distraction it creates for their caregivers. Prince, Paris, and Blanket should come first.

From what's been reported, there should be plenty of money for everyone, without any wrongful death judgments. imo

We are on EXACTLY the same page!

I feel the same, about the drugs.

As a defense for sure all the Dr.'s will state they were unaware of other Dr.'s treating and prescribing drugs to MJ, especially Dr. Murray. Also as you stated, his lawyer states as much from his carefully worded statement.

There will be more money in the estate than there ever was in my opinion, and although the Dr.'s need to be reprimanded for writing prescriptions under alias's, that will probably be as far as this will go.

I just hope the children are protected from people who may exploit them and they will be able to act and be children. I hope they are given alot of hugs and are getting comforted to the moon and back. They are so innocent in all this.

JMO.

[daniel green]

Hi Zenyatta, thanks for posting the transcripts. Very interesting. I agree with you that Joe and Leonard have an uphill battle. snipped.

What a pair those two are. :scared:

[mrsmcgoo]

ET reporting that MJ burial will be in Forest Hills as per link.

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/08/77227/

I hope this is true. The children need this to be done.

JMO

[Imperfect4]

I understand that she wants someone to be charged with murder -- but what is it that she is looking for that "was not" revealed in the autopsy as per my post?
Just wondering .....

From what I can gather, what "was not" revealed in the autopsy was a tie to someone they can sue for lots of $$. Murray doesn't suit that purpose.

I mean, what other conclusion is to be drawn from her demand for a 3rd autopsy? The entire family knew MJ was a substance abuser, so whatever the tox results reveal can't be a complete surprise. :huh:

[retiredcop]

I understand that she wants someone to be charged with murder -- but what is it that she is looking for that "was not" revealed in the autopsy as per my post?
Just wondering .....

The tox results are probably not showing anything intentional against Dr Murray and the Diprivan didn't kill him. I still think this will be ruled an accidental overdose either by Mr Jackson's own hand or by someone else.

just my opinion

[retiredcop]

Wasn't it said somewhere they were waiting for the Chief's return from vacation to release the tox reports?

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Good morning Imperfect4,

I may be looking at this all wrong. I've suspected that the autopsy/tox results might show numerous drugs that would make it difficult to determine exactly which one killed Michael.

Maybe it's the other way around -- maybe there was no evidence of any drug in Michael's system in any amount that should have killed him. Maybe cardiac arrest was determined to be the cause of death with no definitive etiology.

Katherine Jackson's recent statement to Geraldo Rivera on 8/1 or 8/2 might hint at that conclusion:

http://www.goldcoastmail.com.au/story/2009/08/03/jackson-too-young-to-die-naturally-mum/

//snip//
MICHAEL Jackson's mother Katherine says she doesn't believe her son died of natural causes.

Katherine Jackson said in a recorded phone interview with Geraldo Rivera the 50-year-old pop superstar was too young to die of natural causes. The interview aired on Sunday night on Geraldo at Large on the Fox News Channel.

"All I know that my son is dead, and I don't think he just died of natural causes or whatever," she said.

"He's too young to have that. Something happened. I don't know what it was. And I can't say."
//snip//

Why would she even say anything about natural causes unless someone else had suggested it? Like the coroner?

all imo

It could be natural causes if his heart just couldn't take his usual round of medications he was taking anymore like that last dose of Demoral, I would think. I still think it will be an accidental overdose though. I'd be surprised if the coroner ruled it natural.

in my opinion

[Roxxanne]

Good morning Imperfect4,

I may be looking at this all wrong. I've suspected that the autopsy/tox results might show numerous drugs that would make it difficult to determine exactly which one killed Michael.

Maybe it's the other way around -- maybe there was no evidence of any drug in Michael's system in any amount that should have killed him. Maybe cardiac arrest was determined to be the cause of death with no definitive etiology.

Katherine Jackson's recent statement to Geraldo Rivera on 8/1 or 8/2 might hint at that conclusion:

http://www.goldcoastmail.com.au/story/2009/08/03/jackson-too-young-to-die-naturally-mum/

//snip//
MICHAEL Jackson's mother Katherine says she doesn't believe her son died of natural causes.

Katherine Jackson said in a recorded phone interview with Geraldo Rivera the 50-year-old pop superstar was too young to die of natural causes. The interview aired on Sunday night on Geraldo at Large on the Fox News Channel.

"All I know that my son is dead, and I don't think he just died of natural causes or whatever," she said.

"He's too young to have that. Something happened. I don't know what it was. And I can't say."
//snip//

Why would she even say anything about natural causes unless someone else had suggested it? Like the coroner?

all imo

Glad you brought this up about Katherine's statement on GR. I've been wondering about it and why she would say that . I also remember the coroner spokesman not long saying something about there might not be an answer as to why he died.

[Poochie Pie]

What do you suppose was the probable cause necessary to obtain and execute all the searches of Dr. Murray's offices, home, and storage? Very good question, Arguendo..!! I would venture a guess that it wasn't just on a "whim"...

Poochie

[Imperfect4]

Good morning Imperfect4,

I may be looking at this all wrong. I've suspected that the autopsy/tox results might show numerous drugs that would make it difficult to determine exactly which one killed Michael.

Maybe it's the other way around -- maybe there was no evidence of any drug in Michael's system in any amount that should have killed him. Maybe cardiac arrest was determined to be the cause of death with no definitive etiology.

Katherine Jackson's recent statement to Geraldo Rivera on 8/1 or 8/2 might hint at that conclusion:

http://www.goldcoastmail.com.au/story/2009/08/03/jackson-too-young-to-die-naturally-mum/

//snip//
MICHAEL Jackson's mother Katherine says she doesn't believe her son died of natural causes.

Katherine Jackson said in a recorded phone interview with Geraldo Rivera the 50-year-old pop superstar was too young to die of natural causes. The interview aired on Sunday night on Geraldo at Large on the Fox News Channel.

"All I know that my son is dead, and I don't think he just died of natural causes or whatever," she said.

"He's too young to have that. Something happened. I don't know what it was. And I can't say."
//snip//

Why would she even say anything about natural causes unless someone else had suggested it? Like the coroner?

all imo

Hi Zenyatta :seeya:

Good catch. Taken at face value, it would appear Katherine is disputing something in her statements to GR -- "something" perhaps being that MJ's cause or manner of death doesn't point to anything nefarious.

Since the Jacksons are rumored to have been told the results of both autopsies and are now demanding a 3rd, I'd say your take on things is probably correct. And you can hardly blame her, actually, given all the information that has come out about the propofol and his other prescription drug use.

However, I think she's wrong that he couldn't have died from "natural causes." People MJ's age and younger die all the time of natural causes. Even if drug use took a tremendous toll on his body, if he had no drugs in his system at the time of his death, to my knowledge his cause or manner of death would be by "natural causes."

[mrsmcgoo]

I don't think this has been posted...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/05/jacko-o2-ok-medic-115875-21572108/

"Michael Jackson insurers thought glowing medical examination for tour must have been on "the body of a Nasa astronaut"

Seems the insurance policy is not as cut and dry as I had thought.

JMO

[mrsmcgoo]

Hi Zenyatta :seeya:

Good catch. Taken at face value, it would appear Katherine is disputing something in her statements to GR -- "something" perhaps being that MJ's cause or manner of death doesn't point to anything nefarious.

Since the Jacksons are rumored to have been told the results of both autopsies and are now demanding a 3rd, I'd say your take on things is probably correct. And you can hardly blame her, actually, given all the information that has come out about the propofol and his other prescription drug use.

However, I think she's wrong that he couldn't have died from "natural causes." People MJ's age and younger die all the time of natural causes. Even if drug use took a tremendous toll on his body, if he had no drugs in his system at the time of his death, to my knowledge his cause or manner of death would be by "natural causes."


Great points!

Also worth noting is the effect of eating disorders on the heart.

JMO

[Imperfect4]

The coroner already ruled that all his vital organs including his heart did not appear to have damage, disease, or any other abnormalities. He did not die of natural causes.

We don't know what he died of.

[Thumper Too]

Great interview. Thanks for sharing.

[Imperfect4]

Correct. But what we do know is that there was no damage to his heart or other vital organs.. according to the coroner.

... and that doesn't rule out death by "natural causes."

[retiredcop]

The coroner already ruled that all his vital organs including his heart did not appear to have damage, disease, or any other abnormalities. He did not die of natural causes.

It wasn't completely ruled out. There were still tissue sample studies of organs to be done, including the heart. Don't you ever watch Doctor G??

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

I don't think this has been posted...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/05/jacko-o2-ok-medic-115875-21572108/

"Michael Jackson insurers thought glowing medical examination for tour must have been on "the body of a Nasa astronaut"

Seems the insurance policy is not as cut and dry as I had thought.

JMO

Now that article just makes no sense. What mega insurance company signs the agreement FIRST and then says they want to do another physical?

I cant believe anyone would be this stupid to even utter such nonsense.

But over and over I keep seeing that MJ only wanted to do 10 shows. I feel we are going to see that issue come to the forefront in the coming months.


imo

[GentleBreeze]

Press conference at 12:30. They said he gave notice this morning and he is leaving to take a position at a private security company.

I wonder if the position is in NY. Rickki Kleiman (sp?) who is his wife has been a fill in on IS recently and even this week.

imo

[retiredcop]

Now that article just makes no sense. What mega insurance company signs the agreement FIRST and then says they want to do another physical?

I cant believe anyone would be this stupid to even utter such nonsense.

But over and over I keep seeing that MJ only wanted to do 10 shows. I feel we are going to see that issue come to the forefront in the coming months.


imo

So his manager was lying on LKL last night? I found him credible and he said Mr Jackson was up on everything going on.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Could very well be true about his heart, Zenyatta.... Lucky for him he had a skilled "Cardiologist" looking out for him, huh..?? Or, maybe not..

Poochie

How would the Cardiologist know his heart would go out like that over drugs. The coroner didn't find anything wrong at first blush and he was holding it in his hands. If it can't be found unless through tissue testing, I don't think the doctor could tell by looking at him.

Mr Jackson had had a physical that was excellent by the insurance company doctor, no???

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Look above your post for a link indicating MJ's death is the subject of a criminal investigation. ie: not natural causes

Any investigation police do is called criminal. Police investigate criminal offenses and enforce criminal law. In death investigations it is always investigated as a homicide until proven otherwise.

Police Investigations 101:wink:

in my opinion

[who_is_it]

<snipped>

DiLeo obviously has his own take on events.

My impression of both DiLeo and AEG's Randy Phillips is that they are professional, articulate, and appear to be genuine. If Joe Jackson and his sidekick Leonard Rowe decides to take them on and make them part of some shadowy entourage that conspired to murder Michael Jackson, I think they will be formidable foes. imo.

I share this impression from the beginning on. DiLeo and Philipps always appeared genuine, professional, dignified and decent to me -- no impostors, no leeches.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"DILEO: He was very smart. When you get back to the number of shows; Michael Jackson knew that if you spent 27 million dollars to create a stage and a production, ten shows weren't going to cover it.

MORET: To that point, Michael Jackson knew there were 31 shows originally. AEG told me there were 31 shows. They rolled out the first ten. They said this is going so well, we've got to add more. They agreed to 19 more. That is how they got to 50."

This is what I thought from the beginning, too. 10 shows wouldn't have paid back the investment. Michael couldn't have been so stupid that he thought 10 shows only would amortisize the costs.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0908/04/lkl.01.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think DiLeo was a TRUE friend who never let him down.
"But Dileo never had hard feelings. In fact, during Jackson's 2005 trial, Dileo went to L.A. on his own dime to be with Michael and offer support. Here's Dileo proclaiming Jackson's innocence on Fox News (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lzd7MWl4jY).And that loyalty paid off, when Jackson asked Dileo to take over as his manager earlier this year."


http://blogs.nashvillescene.com/pitw/2009/06/a_word_from_frank_dileo_michae.php

[retiredcop]

to funny!

http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/4944872.php?contentType=4&contentId=4465333

OMG especially the nose!!!

in my opinion

[who_is_it]

---------------

and i keep saying that MJ knew he couldnt even do just the 10 shows.
jmo

M-a-y-b-e he thought he could get a sick note after some of the shows.... but be sure he knew 10 shows couldn't amortisize the high costs of this mega spectacle.

[BOZGAL2]

Now that article just makes no sense. What mega insurance company signs the agreement FIRST and then says they want to do another physical?

I cant believe anyone would be this stupid to even utter such nonsense.

But over and over I keep seeing that MJ only wanted to do 10 shows. I feel we are going to see that issue come to the forefront in the coming months.


imo

Unfortunately I have become used to the utter nonsense printed about MJ. It just fuels the fire. IMO

I also believe the issue with the number of shows will come out in the future and I believe it was for 10. JMO

[who_is_it]

What I like about Frank, too, is that he didn't deny Michael's drug problem.

[Imperfect4]

The attorney for Michael Jackson's personal doctor, Dr. Conrad Murray, confirmed Wednesday (July 22) that when officials executed a search warrant on his client's office in Houston, it was in connection with an investigation seeking evidence of manslaughter in the singer's death.

"We can confirm that a search warrant was executed today on Dr. Murray's offices in Houston, Texas," reads the statement from attorney Ed Chernoff about the search, which The Associated Press said was conducted based on preliminary autopsy results. "We reviewed the warrant and remained on the premises while the search was being executed. The search was conducted by members of the DEA, two Robbery/Homicide detectives from the Los Angeles Police Department and Houston Police officers. The search warrant authorized law enforcement to search for and seize items, including documents, they believed constituted evidence of the offense of manslaughter."

Law-enforcement officials have described the probe into Jackson's death as a criminal case, and the wording of Chernoff's statement is a clear indication that investigators could be considering filing serious criminal charges against anyone tied to the June 25 death of the self-proclaimed King of Pop.


http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1616752/20090722/jackson_michael.jhtml


Call it what you want.
*shrug*

I'll wait for the autopsy report to "call it."

Meantime I'll continue to wonder why the Jacksons want a 3rd autopsy. They maintain there was foul play, which means there was no definitive evidence of foul play in autopsies #1 or #2, or they wouldn't be ordering a 3rd examination. Logic leads me to believe the criminal aspect of his death isn't quite as obvious as you seem to believe.

[daniel green]

Now LA Police Chief Bratton is steeping down. I'm so surprised at the timing. He didn't finish out his term.

imo

Me, too. Any notion why?

I hope he is not sick.

[retiredcop]

It hasn't been proven otherwise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Arguendo View Post
Look above your post for a link indicating MJ's death is the subject of a criminal investigation. ie: not natural causes

My answer

Any investigation police do is called criminal. Police investigate criminal offenses and enforce criminal law. In death investigations it is always investigated as a homicide until proven otherwise.

Police Investigations 101


Conclusion: MJ's death is the subject of a criminal investigation means nothing. It is a normal way of investigating a death.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

It may have been something as simple as an offer he couldn't refuse.

If he is going to work in the pvt sector, I reckon so.

[daniel green]

Open the floodgates -- the creditors are getting in line for a piece of the action in the Michael Jackson estate case. Segye Times -- a South Korean newspaper -- won a judgment against Katherine, Joe and Jermaine Jackson, along with the Jackson Record Company, back in 1994. The suit claimed the newspaper paid the family $5.5 million for a series of Jackson family concerts in 1989 that never took place. A judgment was entered for $4 million. Segye Times now wants $7,865,730.78 -- interest is a b---! It's interesting that Michael was not sued personally. Nonetheless, under the category "better late than never," Segye wants the estate to pay up.

Stay tuned...
http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/05/michael-jackson-katherine-jackson-joe-jackson-jermaine-jackson-estate-lien-segye-times/

[retiredcop]

I'll wait for the autopsy report to "call it."

Meantime I'll continue to wonder why the Jacksons want a 3rd autopsy. They maintain there was foul play, which means there was no definitive evidence of foul play in autopsies #1 or #2, or they wouldn't be ordering a 3rd examination. Logic leads me to believe the criminal aspect of his death isn't quite as obvious as you seem to believe.

Logic? OMG not logic!

Of course Katherine wasn't happy with the first two results so try try again. Maybe the third time will be the charm. Since she seems to be hot to trot in proving foul play, I'm thinking it's just not there.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

Non snarky serious question, because I just don't know. Did MJ ever complete a tour in his career?

TIA

[retiredcop]

So I guess all deaths involve multiple search warrants, stating probable cause exists, by multiple state and federal agencies.

When it comes to Michael Jackson, the international singing genius it seems to. Any old death, maybe not.

in my opinion.

[daniel green]

He was about to reach the end of a 3 term limit and the City Council had tabled a proposal to do away with the limit, so... he accepted another position.

Ahhhhhhh, that makes sense. I did not know that!
Thank you!

[GentleBreeze]

Unfortunately I have become used to the utter nonsense printed about MJ. It just fuels the fire. IMO

I also believe the issue with the number of shows will come out in the future and I believe it was for 10. JMO

ITA! While his lawyer may be a fine man I will not dismiss the fact that he has much to gain by trying to say MJ was in a clear frame of mind when supposedly the show went from 10, out of MJs own mouth, to supposedly 31 and then onto 50. Every deal he helped negotiate for MJ he also makes a boatload of money.

This man will make millions just by being the co-administrator of the Will.

He knows if MJ was not in mental shape to make such decisions then KJ can bring that up in court, especially if she has witnesses that heard MJ say he didn't sign to do 50. Her lawyer said that she wants them deposed. So maybe this is what is nagging at her because she never heard of the 50 tours.

The whole thing sounds suspicious. It started at 10 then ended at 50 and now the mega insurance company is stating after the fact that they had already signed off on the insurance policy that they wanted to do further physical. The entire thing just seems ominous to me and hinky.

While MJ has lost some cases where he was sued he also has won cases where he sued concerning contractural issues. Maybe he would have done the 10 and then refused to do anymore.

imo

[CinderL.]

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/05/michael-jackson-katherine-jackson-joe-jackson-jermaine-jackson-estate-lien-segye-times/

I was just reading this. Why would MJ's estate have to pay if MJ wasn't sued??? Kathrine might have to pay out of her 40% but not the kids money.

[Imperfect4]

Logic leads me to question anything printed in the NY Post, who's source remains unnamed. Even TMZ hasn't printed this story, have they?

It's not on TMZ. I Googled and found plenty of links, several saying it's Joe who requested the 3rd autopsy (mostly Indian newspapers). I have no idea as to the credibility of any of those sources.

That said, logic still leads me to believe the results of both autopsies are inconclusive as to what caused MJ's death. If there was conclusive proof of what killed him and who did it, my guess is the autopsy results would have been released, and an arrest(s) made.

[GentleBreeze]

I was just reading this. Why would MJ's estate have to pay if MJ wasn't sued??? Kathrine might have to pay out of her 40% but not the kids money.

Exactly. She may have to pay but Michael was not sued.

Only Katherine, Joe ad Jermaine.

imo

[BOZGAL2]

ITA! While his lawyer may be a fine man I will not dismiss the fact that he has much to gain by trying to say MJ was in a clear frame of mind when supposedly the show went from 10, out of MJs own mouth, to supposedly 31 and then onto 50. Every deal he helped negotiate for MJ he also makes a boatload of money.

This man will make millions just by being the co-administrator of the Will.

He knows if MJ was not in mental shape to make such decisions then KJ can bring that up in court, especially if she has witnesses that heard MJ say he didn't sign to do 50. Her lawyer said that she wants them deposed. So maybe this is what is nagging at her because she never heard of the 50 tours.

The whole thing sounds suspicious. It started at 10 then ended at 50 and now the mega insurance company is stating after the fact that they had already signed off on the insurance policy that they wanted to do further physical. The entire thing just seems ominous to me and hinky.

While MJ has lost some cases where he was sued he also has won cases where he sued concerning contractural issues. Maybe he would have done the 10 and then refused to do anymore.

imo

ITA
My hinky meter went off the day MJ died.

I do not think KJ would be one to rollover. She knows alot more than any of us do. JMO
And I do believe the truth will come out. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

ITA
My hinky meter went off the day MJ died.

I do not think KJ would be one to rollover. She knows alot more than any of us do. JMO
And I do believe the truth will come out. JMO

I have a feeling a lot of people have been contacting KJ that know very important things.

I think this is why she wants these two men deposed under oath.

Oops in my prior post I said 50 tours. lol I meant 50 shows.:biggrin:

imo

[Imperfect4]

Hoefflin told Access that according to a reliable source, Jackson’s toxicology report indicated the singer “had lethal amounts of Demerol and Propofol in his body” when he died.

This is the doctor that has Katherine Jackson's permission to speak.

http://expobusiness.com/article/exdoc_lethal_drugs_found_in_jackson.html

So now I'm wondering ... if this is the doctor speaking for Mrs. Jackson, and he is so clearly stating MJ had lethal amounts of those two drugs in his body, why is it Mrs. Jackson didn't simply refer to those two drugs in her call-in with Geraldo? She said she "couldn't say" or something similar, except he didn't die of natural causes.

If the J's have definitive proof MJ died of lethal amounts of drugs, why not come out and say it? :confused:

[GentleBreeze]

I am beginning to believe that Dr. Klein is running on pure T guilt.

If he has a heart he has to feel so guilty for ruining MJs face and causing a lot of his problems.:crying:

imo

[who_is_it]

<snipped>

While MJ has lost some cases where he was sued he also has won cases where he sued concerning contractural issues. Maybe he would have done the 10 and then refused to do anymore.

imo

I believe there must have been a contract over more than 10 shows. Like said above 10 shows could have never ever amortisized the costs.

What you say in the quoted passage is possible imo. Imo it could also be that he (or even AEG and him inofficially) planned to get a sick note after some shows. The insurance would have paid.

[BOZGAL2]

I have a feeling a lot of people have been contacting KJ that know very important things.

I think this is why she wants these two men deposed under oath.

Oops in my prior post I said 50 tours. lol I meant 50 shows.:biggrin:

imo

I know what you meant. :biggrin:

KJ and MJ were always very close. She holds the key to alot of this. JMO
Whatever people print or read MJ did have some good friends. Powerful friends. JMO

She is a strong willed determined woman who will not give up and I do not blame her one bit. Neither would I.

I also believe the children may possess some helpful information as well. JMO

[BOZGAL2]

No kidding.. if my son was on stage dancing and singing, and described as awesome, and a few hours later was stone cold dead, with a private doctor hired at $150,000.00 each month on scene, I would question it too.

You got that right. :wink:

[who_is_it]

I am beginning to believe that Dr. Klein is running on pure T guilt.

If he has a heart he has to feel so guilty for ruining MJs face and causing a lot of his problems.:crying:

imo

:confused: What does this mean?

[GentleBreeze]

I believe there must have been a contract over more than 10 shows. Like said above 10 shows could have never ever amortisized the costs.

What you say in the quoted passage is possible imo. It could also be that he (or even AEG and him unofficially) planned to get a sick note after some shows.

But how do we really know what the cost are? Are we just trusting AEG to say that? Or his lawyer when trying to shore up the reason he supposedly upped it from 10 to 50? I sure don't think it would take that many shows for AEG to be rolling in the dough if they originally were just going to do 10. That is a huge increase.

imo

[BOZGAL2]

I am beginning to believe that Dr. Klein is running on pure T guilt.

If he has a heart he has to feel so guilty for ruining MJs face and causing a lot of his problems.:crying:

imo

DR K is puzzling to me to say the least.
I'm sure he is not the only one eating guilt stew right now. JMO

[who_is_it]

So now I'm wondering ... if this is the doctor speaking for Mrs. Jackson, and he is so clearly stating MJ had lethal amounts of those two drugs in his body, why is it Mrs. Jackson didn't simply refer to those two drugs in her call-in with Geraldo? She said she "couldn't say" or something similar, except he didn't die of natural causes.

If the J's have definitive proof MJ died of lethal amounts of drugs, why not come out and say it? :confused:

... BECAUSE if you accuse somebody FALSELY you can be sued for libel.

I wondered how LaToya could have been so dumb to babble all her unproved thoughts to the media.

[daniel green]

So now I'm wondering ... if this is the doctor speaking for Mrs. Jackson, and he is so clearly stating MJ had lethal amounts of those two drugs in his body, why is it Mrs. Jackson didn't simply refer to those two drugs in her call-in with Geraldo? She said she "couldn't say" or something similar, except he didn't die of natural causes.

If the J's have definitive proof MJ died of lethal amounts of drugs, why not come out and say it? :confused:

It's a head-scratcher, ain't it?

[BOZGAL2]

But how do we really know what the cost are? Are we just trusting AEG to say that? Or his lawyer when trying to shore up the reason he supposedly upped it from 10 to 50? I sure don't think it would take that many shows for AEG to be rolling in the dough if they originally were just going to do 10. That is a huge increase.

imo


I personally do not believe a word of what AEG says. :thumbdown:
And that is my opinion and observation.

[GentleBreeze]

Wait a minute..did I miss something..did Kathrine, Jermaine and Joe have a contract with these people?...Boy..I would like to know details..One can not sue a third party who did not sign the contract..at least not to my knowledge..and what about the time lapse...It seems only the lawyers are going to make money on this one!!

LMS

From what I read this must have been a contract between Katherine, Joe and Jermaine and yes they sued them and got a judgment. However MJ was not named as a part of the suit and that is why it is ridiculous if they think the MJ estate is going to pay them.

If they want to collect from Katherine's part they will have to proceed on an individual basis.

imo

[daniel green]

I dont think this will fly at all..there has to be some sort of "Statue of Limitations"..why didnt they sue back in the day?..snipped

Um, they did.

[CinderL.]

Wait a minute..did I miss something..did Kathrine, Jermaine and Joe have a contract with these people?...Boy..I would like to know details..One can not sue a third party who did not sign the contract..at least not to my knowledge..and what about the time lapse...It seems only the lawyers are going to make money on this one!!

LMS

According to the article they did sue KJ, Jermaine, and Joe, and won. But, that still wouldn't make MJ's estate liable for the payment.
**********

"posted Aug 5th 2009 2:44PM by TMZ Staff

Michael Jackson -- Lien on MeOpen the floodgates -- the creditors are getting in line for a piece of the action in the Michael Jackson estate case.

Segye Times -- a South Korean newspaper -- won a judgment against Katherine, Joe and Jermaine Jackson, along with the Jackson Record Company, back in 1994. The suit claimed the newspaper paid the family $5.5 million for a series of Jackson family concerts in 1989 that never took place.

A judgment was entered for $4 million. Segye Times now wants $7,865,730.78 -- interest is a *****!

It's interesting that Michael was not sued personally. Nonetheless, under the category "better late than never," Segye wants the estate to pay up.

Stay tuned..."

[who_is_it]

But how do we really know what the cost are? Are we just trusting AEG to say that? Or his lawyer when trying to shore up the reason he supposedly upped it from 10 to 50? I sure don't think it would take that many shows for AEG to be rolling in the dough if they originally were just going to do 10. That is a huge increase.

imo

I was following the news about the concerts precisely before Michael's death because I thought about going there. While MJ was still alive an English tabloid said he only wanted to do 10 shows. Back then I already thought "can't be..., 10 shows can't pay back the enormous costs". They've planned the biggest show ever, had the biggest screen ever used etc. etc. Other superstars like Madonna, for example, also have to do many shows. You also can't get "the best" dancers if it's only for 10 shows. They have to rehearse and exercise over months; the involvement has to pay back for them, too. It wouldn't be profitable for them to do just a few shows.

[Imperfect4]

That would lead one to wonder why the death cert. hasn't been amended to read unknown instead of deferrred.

I'm not following you at all. They are still investigating his death. Why would they amend the death certificate before the investigation is wrapped up?

I'm not saying he died of natural causes. What I'm saying is if the tox results are inconclusive and no major organ failure was seen, they could be leaning in the direction of "natural causes," thus Mrs. Jackson's repeated reference to it in her Geraldo interview.

If it was known for certain what he died of, and for certain at whose hand, there'd be no reason to keep the information quiet, and there'd be no reason not to arrest a suspect(s).

[GentleBreeze]

:confused: What does this mean?

Because I think Klein had a great influence over MJ and he did things that were hurtful instead of helpful to him.


"Dr. Klein is the one who made his face white by using Benoquin, a permanent bleaching agent," Hoefflin claimed. "[Michael] had Lupus and it was made worse by Dr. Klein's massive injections of collagen. Patients who have lupus should not have collagen... For many years, Dr. Klein was using the very powerful cortisone Celestine to inject into the deep pimples on Michael's face and nose - cortisone injections can thin out tissue in the face. I told him that he should not have any further injections... as it was thinning out his face and nose... [And Klein] was prescribing him narcotics under an alias name, Omar Arnold."

[Imperfect4]

I know what you meant. :biggrin:

KJ and MJ were always very close. She holds the key to alot of this. JMO
Whatever people print or read MJ did have some good friends. Powerful friends. JMO

She is a strong willed determined woman who will not give up and I do not blame her one bit. Neither would I.

I also believe the children may possess some helpful information as well. JMO

I just have to ask ... if MJ and his mother were so close, and if Mrs. Jackson is, as you state, "a strong willed determined woman" ... why didn't she protect her son from her husband?

Doesn't seem to me you can have it both ways. If what MJ has told the world about his father is true, and if KJ is the real backbone of the family (which is also a popular opinion), then why in heaven's name did KJ not remove Michael from his father's grasp? It seems JJ was at the root of all MJ's problems. How did "strong willed determined" Mrs. Jackson sit by while her son's psyche was devastated on so many levels by her husband?

Does not compute. :confused:

[GentleBreeze]

----------------

u forgot to add "JMO"

The humanitarian is a fact.

imo

[Imperfect4]

Maybe she doesn't want to interfere with the ongoing criminal investigation into the suspicious death of her son.

Then perhaps she shouldn't have called Geraldo Rivera to chat. On TV.

[GentleBreeze]

I just have to ask ... if MJ and his mother were so close, and if Mrs. Jackson is, as you state, "a strong willed determined woman" ... why didn't she protect her son from her husband?

Doesn't seem to me you can have it both ways. If what MJ has told the world about his father is true, and if KJ is the real backbone of the family (which is also a popular opinion), then why in heaven's name did KJ not remove Michael from his father's grasp? It seems JJ was at the root of all MJ's problems. How did "strong willed determined" Mrs. Jackson sit by while her son's psyche was devastated on so many levels by her husband?

Does not compute. :confused:


Oh I think we have all seen someone who may have been fearful of their husbands when they were younger who progressed and grew into a strong woman in later years.

imo

[who_is_it]

DR K is puzzling to me to say the least.
I'm sure he is not the only one eating guilt stew right now. JMO

I don't find him credible at all since his first media appearances. I also always had the impression MJ depends for any reasons on him, like there were some secrets by which Klein could indirectly extort MJ or at least exert pressure on him (just an opinion; no fact).

[Imperfect4]

... BECAUSE if you accuse somebody FALSELY you can be sued for libel.

I wondered how LaToya could have been so dumb to babble all her unproved thoughts to the media.

So she sends her latest "spokesperson" out to commit libel? :huh:

[who_is_it]

Because I think Klein had a great influence over MJ and he did things that were hurtful instead of helpful to him.


"Dr. Klein is the one who made his face white by using Benoquin, a permanent bleaching agent," Hoefflin claimed. "[Michael] had Lupus and it was made worse by Dr. Klein's massive injections of collagen. Patients who have lupus should not have collagen... For many years, Dr. Klein was using the very powerful cortisone Celestine to inject into the deep pimples on Michael's face and nose - cortisone injections can thin out tissue in the face. I told him that he should not have any further injections... as it was thinning out his face and nose... [And Klein] was prescribing him narcotics under an alias name, Omar Arnold."

:scared: Very sad.

Do you personally think Mr Hoefflin is credible? -- I never saw / heard him speaking.

[GentleBreeze]

GB..I will take your word for it..and if indeed there was a judgement..then they could attach to Kathrine....but only whatever portion the court deem appropriate..and since Kathrine will only get a money amt..as a payout from the "Trust"..then they can just maybe get their poun of flesh until KJ dies....as they cannot attach said amt to that 40% kathrine's percentage..since it will revert to the kids...

I hope its understood...dont want to confuse..but Kathrine doesn't get 40% of the Estate Worth....only the residuals that 40% pays out monthly..the principal remains within the "TRUST"..

LMS:scared:

Yes that is correct. She does not get 40% of the money in the Trust. She will live off of the 40% amount that is being made off of his estate.

So I think these people are trying to whistle dixie with soda crackers in their mouths. lol They are wasting their time imo.

imo

[who_is_it]

So she sends her latest "spokesperson" out to commit libel? :huh:

I don't know if it's libel or not... -- just the truth (hopefully the result of the investigations) could tell. If I were LaToya I would be much more careful with what to tell the media and what not -- not only for legal reasons. She just fuels the conspiracy theories and sensational news imo.

[GentleBreeze]

Thanks..so I posted above what I think they might get...and it ain't 40% of the Estate....Good thinking MJ/Executors...keep everything within the trust..and no one can touch it!!!..LOL..So maybe these creditors/people might get a few hindred dollars a month...and that will stop the minute Kathrine passes..LOL..and from what I have heard..Jermaine doesn't have anything to be attached to..LOL

LMS:biggrin:

I am thinking now this is why KJ may have filed bankruptcy some years ago.

imo

[Imperfect4]

Oh I think we have all seen someone who may have been fearful of their husbands when they were younger who progressed and grew into a strong woman in later years.

imo

With respect, I think that's a HUGE supposition with regard to Mrs. Jackson.

[GentleBreeze]

Beating your kid back then wasn't considered abuse. Even the teachers hit the kids. I went to a religious school, and got caught talking in chapel, and the pastor( male) made me and my friend both bend over and he hit us with a paddle. I thought and still think I was wronged, but back then it was considered discipline.

Corporal punishment is still the law in most states.

It just cant rise to the level of abuse where it leaves bruises on the child.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

With respect, I think that's a HUGE supposition with regard to Mrs. Jackson.

Why? He signed a declaration that he would not be around the children much and would still be away from them and living in LV.

Sounds like a strong minded woman to me.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

----------------

How can anyone say he looked awesome. He looked sick. jmo and what is NBD ?

He looked great in all of his recent photos but the nicest one was of him in that gorgeous purple jacket. Awesome.

IMO

[Imperfect4]

Beating your kid back then wasn't considered abuse. Even the teachers hit the kids. I went to a religious school, and got caught talking in chapel, and the pastor( male) made me and my friend both bend over and he hit us with a paddle. I thought and still think I was wronged, but back then it was considered discipline.

We're not talking a paddling. We're talking complete and utter devastation of a child's psyche, according to MJ's recounting, and all the problems he seemed to have his entire adult life which were rooted in what his father did and said to him.

If KJ was tuned into Michael, and she was the backbone of the family, it's a damn shame she didn't protect him.

Nothing to be done about it now. But I find it difficult to read praise for Mrs. Jackson, when it is clear her husband was literally the "root of all evil" that played out in Michael's life. He should have been protected. His life might've been a whole lot more manageable if he'd been rescued from Joe's grasp.

[Imperfect4]

Why? He signed a declaration that he would not be around the children much and would still be away from them and living in LV.

Sounds like a strong minded woman to me.

imo

:confused: Sounds like Joe signed what he needed to sign to insure MJ's kids remained with the clan. Not sure what Katherine had to do with that.

[who_is_it]

----------------

How can anyone say he looked awesome. He looked sick. jmo and what is NBD ?

I think he looked awesome though he didn't wore his stage costumes. I'm serious..., I don't say this to "defend / excuse MJ".

Unfortunately we won't see the stage costumes because he just was dressed casually during the rehearsals. I LOVE most of Michael's clothes -- specially some of his jackets and also what he wore in the "Dirty Diana" video. I would love to wear these clothes.

[Imperfect4]

I'm getting a better understanding suddenly of how so many women make so many bad choices in men. :laugh:

[Gilly]

----------------

How can anyone say he looked awesome. He looked sick. jmo and what is NBD ?


Quite easily ... I think he looked awesome. He didn't look sick to me. NBD ... no big deal.

[GentleBreeze]

:confused: Sounds like Joe signed what he needed to sign to insure MJ's kids remained with the clan. Not sure what Katherine had to do with that.

It is simple. She picked her grandchildren over her husband.

imo

[Poochie Pie]

How would the Cardiologist know his heart would go out like that over drugs. The coroner didn't find anything wrong at first blush and he was holding it in his hands. If it can't be found unless through tissue testing, I don't think the doctor could tell by looking at him.

Mr Jackson had had a physical that was excellent by the insurance company doctor, no???

in my opinion LOL retired.... Have you missed the many, many posts with numerous links stating how this Drug propofol, (Diprivan) can stop the heart and how it has to be monitored continously..?? How dangerous it can be..?? I would think a Cardiologist, above ALL people, would know his heart could "go out like that over drugs"... and a lot of those "required" physicals by insurance companies are simply to ascertain that you can "walk, talk, and see from a fair distance".. IMO

Poochie

[who_is_it]

------------------

Hold tight............his clothes may show up on ebay soon. jmo

Yeah, Buzz, but a shirt was auctioned after his death for $ US 52,000. I couldn't afford a jacket, I guess.

[GentleBreeze]

I'm getting a better understanding suddenly of how so many women make so many bad choices in men. :laugh:

Who has made bad choices in men?

That is a strange statement Imperfect.

Whom are you referring to since you seem to be talking about "women" now and not KJ.:confused:

imo

[Imperfect4]

It is simple. She picked her grandchildren over her husband.

imo

Just as likely her husband signed the agreement to insure the kids stayed with the Jackson clan. Joe and Katherine are still married.

[Gilly]

I have a feeling a lot of people have been contacting KJ that know very important things.

I think this is why she wants these two men deposed under oath.

Oops in my prior post I said 50 tours. lol I meant 50 shows.:biggrin:

imo

ITA I would think the children would have given her info. I know my 13 year old grandaughter tells me everything.

[GentleBreeze]

Yeah, Buzz, but a shirt was auctioned after his death for $ US 52,000. I couldn't afford a jacket, I guess.

We ain't seen nothing yet, IMO. If any of MJs personal possession goes to a private auction the amounts are going to be HUGE.

Heck when he was alive he gave a piece of artwork for charity to be auctioned off of him and Bubbles, iirc and it sold for 1.5 million dollars.:ohmy::biggrin:

I wonder if they will auction off Johnny Depp's Edward Scissorhands? That should really bring in the money to the MJ estate.

imo

[CinderL.]

Then perhaps she shouldn't have called Geraldo Rivera to chat. On TV.


Good point. I think they should all be staying off of the tv. But, then what would we have to talk about. :wink::biggrin:

[Poochie Pie]

Police Investigations 101??? No such course. Investigations 101 was a three day seminar with the Miami Police Department. Are you referring to the Course, "Criminal Law 101" ?? ahhhh.... You most definitely live up to your nic... "Eagleeye"..:wink:

Poochie

[GentleBreeze]

Just as likely her husband signed the agreement to insure the kids stayed with the Jackson clan. Joe and Katherine are still married.

Just in name only imo.

She goes her way most of the time and he does his thing in another state. They both probably like it that way and now she will even see him less than she did.

imo

[Gilly]

That goes both ways. :laugh:

It sure does :thumbsup:

[Imperfect4]

Just in name only imo.

She goes her way most of the time and he does his thing in another state. They both probably like it that way and now she will even see him less than she did.

imo

ROFL! You clearly have an inside track to all things Jackson. I bow to your clearly superior insider knowledge of who does what thing where, when it comes to the Jacksons.

:laugh:

[daniel green]

Beating your kid back then wasn't considered abuse. Even the teachers hit the kids. I went to a religious school, and got caught talking in chapel, and the pastor( male) made me and my friend both bend over and he hit us with a paddle. I thought and still think I was wronged, but back then it was considered discipline.

Someone should have told MJ about this and that it was not abuse. He might have felt relief and not called it abuse.

[Imperfect4]

Good point. I think they should all be staying off of the tv. But, then what would we have to talk about. :wink::biggrin:

Good point as well. Actually, I have no idea why I'm talking about any of this, anyway! :laugh:

[daniel green]

We're not talking a paddling. We're talking complete and utter devastation of a child's psyche, according to MJ's recounting, and all the problems he seemed to have his entire adult life which were rooted in what his father did and said to him.

If KJ was tuned into Michael, and she was the backbone of the family, it's a damn shame she didn't protect him.

Nothing to be done about it now. But I find it difficult to read praise for Mrs. Jackson, when it is clear her husband was literally the "root of all evil" that played out in Michael's life. He should have been protected. His life might've been a whole lot more manageable if he'd been rescued from Joe's grasp.

And as per the Jackson sisters.

[GentleBreeze]

------------

In his rehearsal video, he looked downright sick. jmo

Not to me.

And we have no clue even which spot that particular song/dance routine happened. They said he had gone through 11 or 12 song and dance rehearsals that night alone. WOW!


imo

[Imperfect4]

Someone should have told MJ about this and that it was not abuse. He might have felt relief and not called it abuse.

True that. Maybe Katherine told MJ it wasn't abuse, and he didn't believe her? Or did Katherine think it was abuse? Very confusing dynamic there. :huh:

[daniel green]

I'm getting a better understanding suddenly of how so many women make so many bad choices in men. :laugh:

Laughed out loud.

[daniel green]

True that. Maybe Katherine told MJ it wasn't abuse, and he didn't believe her? Or did Katherine think it was abuse? Very confusing dynamic there. :huh:

Well, it was not abuse back then. It was discipline. Even today, apparently, if it does not rise to the level of bruising, it's OK. :scared:

However, she might have considered it abuse but not illegal but she grew since then.

I am totally confused.

[daniel green]

Has the actual will/estate been linked to? Did I miss that?

Or are ppl making interpretations re residuals and such out of what we have seen?

TIA

[Poochie Pie]

I thought he looked pretty awesome. You didn't. NBD LOL... I will second that Arguendo... And I'm an OLD woman... Not a man in this Universe that will ever dance like Michael Jackson... IMO, of course.. :biggrin:

Poochie

[Gilly]

True that. Maybe Katherine told MJ it wasn't abuse, and he didn't believe her? Or did Katherine think it was abuse? Very confusing dynamic there. :huh:

I think she probably didn't think of it as abuse. As children, we were made to stand in a line and my father would hit us with a broom handle. To this day my mother still says it was dicipline and not abuse. She is 77 now and I am sure she will never change her point of view. Confusing dynamics in my family too. :sad:

[Poochie Pie]

We're not talking a paddling. We're talking complete and utter devastation of a child's psyche, according to MJ's recounting, and all the problems he seemed to have his entire adult life which were rooted in what his father did and said to him.

If KJ was tuned into Michael, and she was the backbone of the family, it's a damn shame she didn't protect him.

Nothing to be done about it now. But I find it difficult to read praise for Mrs. Jackson, when it is clear her husband was literally the "root of all evil" that played out in Michael's life. He should have been protected. His life might've been a whole lot more manageable if he'd been rescued from Joe's grasp. Post of the day, Imperfect...!!! When you spend your entire adult life trying to change what you look like, something went very, very wrong in your childhood.... Children need to be supported and loved for who they are.. not humiliated and ridiculed by their Parents... (or "Parent" in this case).. IMO

Poochie

[CinderL.]

Why? He signed a declaration that he would not be around the children much and would still be away from them and living in LV.

Sounds like a strong minded woman to me.

imo

I don't think that had anything to do with KJ. I think DR had something to do with that. IMO

[Poochie Pie]

:confused: Sounds like Joe signed what he needed to sign to insure MJ's kids remained with the clan. Not sure what Katherine had to do with that. Exactly..!!! I smell a rat...

[CinderL.]

Good point as well. Actually, I have no idea why I'm talking about any of this, anyway! :laugh:

Hahahaha. me either. :laugh: Except for some strange reason, I am interested.

[CinderL.]

Has the actual will/estate been linked to? Did I miss that?

Or are ppl making interpretations re residuals and such out of what we have seen?

TIA

The will was posted, not the trust.

[tiptop]

I don't think that had anything to do with KJ. I think DR had something to do with that. IMO

Perhaps. But something tells me JJ wont give a rats rear end whether he signed something or not. He appears to be a controller and manipulator from way back. Someone incredibly concerned with cash flow. It remains to be seen whether or not he injects himself into the lives of his grandchildren. I think he will give it some time then try to push his way in. JMO

[Imperfect4]

Well, it was not abuse back then. It was discipline. Even today, apparently, if it does not rise to the level of bruising, it's OK. :scared:

However, she might have considered it abuse but not illegal but she grew since then.

I am totally confused.

Glad I'm not the only one. :scared:

For the record, I'm 3 years older than Michael was. My mother protected me from the type of *non-abuse* he suffered. So apparently, it was termed abuse in some households "back then."

[Imperfect4]

Honestly I don't think JJ had much choice in signing that consent. I think it was part of the agreement with DR and KJ. I don't necessarily think he was "forced" but to make it go smoother was asked as you say to ensure that KJ would get permanent custody. However, he can still see the children when he visits Encino. JMO

Of course he can. They're still married.

[Poochie Pie]

Awww Poochie, I am real old and I can do the moon walk. :laugh: You've got it over on me, then... LOL I've been watching a few of the videos on youtube... He surely mastered the moon walk... A lot of MJ performances on there that I had never seen..

Poochie

[Roxxanne]

You've got it over on me, then... LOL I've been watching a few of the videos on youtube... He surely mastered the moon walk... A lot of MJ performances on there that I had never seen..

Poochie

LOL, I've been watching them too! I saw one the other day he was tap dancing. Really good I might add, Hadn't saw that one before.

[Imperfect4]

I wonder who injected him with the demerol and why the doctor was allegedly sleep when this happened when he was supposed to be monitoring MJ? I don't understand the necessity of the 3rd autopsy but I do understand her having questions. This doctor was getting paid $150,000 a month -- he shouldn't have been sleeping. JMO

No, he certainly should not have been -- no matter what his monthly salary was. (Not sure why that $150K keeps coming up. If he'd been paid $5K a month, would it be more understandable, his falling asleep? I don't get the connection. But I digress ...)

Ahem. The doctor should've been tending his "patient." But if we roll this scenario back a bit further in the woulda-shoulda-coulda realm, the doctor's 50 year-old patient should not have been requesting anesthesia for a sleeping problem. There were other solutions, and a 50 year-old man with 3 children should have sought them out. imo

I don't necessarily object to the Jacksons' going after Murray or whoever with a civil suit, however, I would hope at some point at least one of them makes a public statement about Michael's personal responsibility to have looked after his own health in a more productive way.

[CinderL.]

Perhaps. But something tells me JJ wont give a rats rear end whether he signed something or not. He appears to be a controller and manipulator from way back. Someone incredibly concerned with cash flow. It remains to be seen whether or not he injects himself into the lives of his grandchildren. I think he will give it some time then try to push his way in. JMO

What exactly did he sign.....just that he would not be living there? I agree with you. I don't think there is a snowballs chance in Heck that he won't have his or one of his cronies fingers in everything. He doesn't have to live there to do that.

[Poochie Pie]

Glad I'm not the only one. :scared:

For the record, I'm 3 years older than Michael was. My mother protected me from the type of *non-abuse* he suffered. So apparently, it was termed abuse in some households "back then." "My mother protected me from the type of *non-abuse* he suffered".... As did mine, Imperfect..!!! It is my opinion that the "abuse" shaped, sadly enough, his entire adulthood...

Poochie

[CinderL.]

I do think that the "Trust Laws" were posted..it is a very obscure law that most dont know about or understand unless they are setting one up in a will such as MJ did..or looking into it if you want to protect your estate...

LMS

Oh I think the trust is safe.....as long as the exs. stay the same. If the one of the Jackson's should get that changed, I think the trust will be gone in short order.

[CinderL.]

No, he certainly should not have been -- no matter what his monthly salary was. (Not sure why that $150K keeps coming up. If he'd been paid $5K a month, would it be more understandable, his falling asleep? I don't get the connection. But I digress ...)

Ahem. The doctor should've been tending his "patient." But if we roll this scenario back a bit further in the woulda-shoulda-coulda realm, the doctor's 50 year-old patient should not have been requesting anesthesia for a sleeping problem. There were other solutions, and a 50 year-old man with 3 children should have sought them out. imo

I don't necessarily object to the Jacksons' going after Murray or whoever with a civil suit, however, I would hope at some point at least one of them makes a public statement about Michael's personal responsibility to have looked after his own health in a more productive way.

Exactly, on all of your points. :thumbup:

[tiptop]

What exactly did he sign.....just that he would not be living there? I agree with you. I don't think there is a snowballs chance in Heck that he won't have his or one of his cronies fingers in everything. He doesn't have to live there to do that.

I see GB posted something about a declaration. Not sure what all that entailed - I need to research that a bit. And yes, I too suspect JJ could manipulate and control from a distance. JMO

[Poochie Pie]

LOL, I've been watching them too! I saw one the other day he was tap dancing. Really good I might add, Hadn't saw that one before. I will have to go look for that one..!! I found a Video where he was performing the "Earth Song" and a Fan ran up the ramp and got onto the lift with him standing on the outside of it through the entire performance...!! Michael put an arm around him so he wouldn't fall off and never missed a beat... Wow...

Poochie

[Imperfect4]

What exactly did he sign.....just that he would not be living there? I agree with you. I don't think there is a snowballs chance in Heck that he won't have his or one of his cronies fingers in everything. He doesn't have to live there to do that.

And there's no reason to believe his wife will behave any differently this time around, unless I'm missing something.

I certainly hope the Jackson siblings who've spoken out against Joe take a stand for Michael's children. Enough already.

[tiptop]

-------

that was staged imo

Yes, probably. IMO

[Poochie Pie]

-------

that was staged imo I really don't think so, Buzzzz... did you watch it through to the very end..?? I thought he would actually pull MJ's arm off before they could get him off of the stage... the Fan looked like he was high on something thru the whole incident...

Poochie

[Roxxanne]

I will have to go look for that one..!! I found a Video where he was performing the "Earth Song" and a Fan ran up the ramp and got onto the lift with him standing on the outside of it through the entire performance...!! Michael put an arm around him so he wouldn't fall off and never missed a beat... Wow...

Poochie

I saw that one today after my cousin e-mailed me about it. It was wild. Check out the tap dance looks to be from the Jackson's TV show, may be back in the 70's.

[tiptop]

I really don't think so, Buzzzz... did you watch it through to the very end..?? I thought he would actually pull MJ's arm off before they could get him off of the stage... the Fan looked like he was high on something thru the whole incident...

Poochie

I dunno, Pie. Would they really risk MJ's security for an unknown person interacting with him like that? I cant imagine someone unknown approaching MJ and security letting it happen. JMO

[Poochie Pie]

I saw that one today after my cousin e-mailed me about it. It was wild. Check out the tap dance looks to be from the Jackson's TV show, may be back in the 70's. It sure was wild..!! And I really don't believe it was "staged"... That crazy Fan could have fallen to his death at any time during the song... Can't see Promoters or anyone else taking that risk... IMO

Poochie

[BOZGAL2]

I wonder who injected him with the demerol and why the doctor was allegedly sleep when this happened when he was supposed to be monitoring MJ? I don't understand the necessity of the 3rd autopsy but I do understand her having questions. This doctor was getting paid $150,000 a month -- he shouldn't have been sleeping. JMO

I'm not totally convinced there was a demoral injection.
Demoral does come in tablet form as well as injectable.

And as far as the monitoring of MJ while administering Propofol, oxygen does not cut it. The required medical equipment was not there to administer the drug. Plain and simple. Besides the fact last time I saw a picture of the home I did not see a Hospital sign out front. And this is not just my opinion but documented medical facts and protocol.

As far as I'm concerned it did not matter if DR was asleep or not. He was not set up to monitor a teddy bear much less MJ on Propofol. JMO

I'm curious about the 3rd autopsy but if she wants it - fine. She is his Mother.

[Poochie Pie]

I dunno, Pie. Would they really risk MJ's security for an unknown person interacting with him like that? I cant imagine someone unknown approaching MJ and security letting it happen. JMO Good point tiptop... However, there are several videos of MJ's performances on the net where Fan's WERE able to just break and run upon the stage with him... Could have been one of those spontaneous things where it happened so fast... Once that lift was up in the air, it was probably set by timer to run it's course through the song... No way to get him down from there until it ran it's course, know what I mean..??

Poochie

[CinderL.]

It sure was wild..!! And I really don't believe it was "staged"... That crazy Fan could have fallen to his death at any time during the song... Can't see Promoters or anyone else taking that risk... IMO

Poochie

Could someone post the video please? TIA

Never mind....I found it. LOL
That was crazy.

[Streetdreamer]

Made my day. The truth has been exposed, it just hasn't been accepted.

[BOZGAL2]

Im with you B...Diprivan Infusion was done under unsafe circumstances..no IFs Ands or Buts..so the least that can happen to Dr. Murray is Negligence..IF he fell asleep..that only adds to that negligence..I dont buy fir ione minute some aid MJ woke up and asked for Demerol..Geesh..any layperon would go to the Doctor there to check that out..anyway..the pills in Mj;s stomach will tell some of the tale..so far havent heard those results...

I think the investigations is attempting to find linkages to others..not just Conrad Murray...there is alot to be accounted for in just how all this got put into motion...not even counting MJ's visits to Dr. Klein 3 times weekly???

LMS:ohmy:

This investigation has broad reaching hands, even though I believe DR M is IN DEEP. JMO

[tiptop]

Im with you B...Diprivan Infusion was done under unsafe circumstances..no IFs Ands or Buts..so the least that can happen to Dr. Murray is Negligence..IF he fell asleep..that only adds to that negligence..I dont buy fir ione minute some aid MJ woke up and asked for Demerol..Geesh..any layperon would go to the Doctor there to check that out..anyway..the pills in Mj;s stomach will tell some of the tale..so far havent heard those results...

I think the investigations is attempting to find linkages to others..not just Conrad Murray...there is alot to be accounted for in just how all this got put into motion...not even counting MJ's visits to Dr. Klein 3 times weekly???

LMS:ohmy:

I probably missed this because I am not on here a lot, but I recall Kai saying when she saw Dr Murray come in, and when MJ would normally take his juice and breakfast in the morning, etc. But has anyone mentioned an seeing an aide, or mentioned an aide in general?

I wondered -- did the doc delegate duties to an aide while he slept? And if, like Kai said, the doc came in at night --- shouldnt he have been well rested knowing what was expected of him during the night?

[BOZGAL2]

tiptop..she mentioned nothing about any aides..and she recalled routine morning stuff..and late morning that day....NOTHING was routine..He ( Conrad) comes down the stairs yelling..I doubt any aide would be giving MJ anything without the Doctor's knowledge or OK...its just not done when a Doctor is in the house...I dont buy this at all!! that is an Aide gave him a shot....NOPE!!..

LMS

I do not either. :thumbdown:

[tiptop]

tiptop..she mentioned nothing about any aides..and she recalled routine morning stuff..and late morning that day....NOTHING was routine..He ( Conrad) comes down the stairs yelling..I doubt any aide would be giving MJ anything without the Doctor's knowledge or OK...its just not done when a Doctor is in the house...I dont buy this at all!! that is an Aide gave him a shot....NOPE!!..

LMS

Well, that was my thinking as well. I wondered if I had missed something critical. lol. I have yet to hear anything about an aide other than the one-blame-game with the injection. Hmmmmmm, wonder if this smell I detect is a scapegoat BBQing.......??? JMO

[Details]

I don't want to open videos - is there a transcript?

Or maybe someone can answer - how does she know he wasn't molested?

Kids can like their molester. They can even enjoy what is happening, and look forward to it. If given drugs or alcohol, they can even not remember it. So the quotes given so far do not disprove a thing to me. But if she says he said he was never abused - that'd be a bit more solid (although kids, particularly boys, tend to deny it for a very long time - even more than girls, it's considered to be their shame more than the abuser, and people will, honestly and truely, suggest that they must now be gay because of the abuse).

[Poochie Pie]

I dunno, Pie. Would they really risk MJ's security for an unknown person interacting with him like that? I cant imagine someone unknown approaching MJ and security letting it happen. JMO Went back and watched it again, tiptop... It appears that the lift had already started rising up into the air when that guy ran up on it... Perhaps the Security guys were apprehensive about their legs being torn off or something and could do nothing but wait for it to come down.. The guy appears to be a little "off" to me..

Poochie

[Poochie Pie]

Could someone post the video please? TIA

Never mind....I found it. LOL
That was crazy. sure was..!! I loved that song.. Never heard it before...

Poochie

[BOZGAL2]

Well, that was my thinking as well. I wondered if I had missed something critical. lol. I have yet to hear anything about an aide other than the one-blame-game with the injection. Hmmmmmm, wonder if this smell I detect is a scapegoat BBQing.......??? JMO

Could very well be. JMO

[tiptop]

Went back and watched it again, tiptop... It appears that the lift had already started rising up into the air when that guy ran up on it... Perhaps the Security guys were apprehensive about their legs being torn off or something and could do nothing but wait for it to come down.. The guy appears to be a little "off" to me..

Poochie

I guess there's really no telling, Pie. It's totally possible it was a spur-of-the-moment event. I still have a hard time believing that, but it is certainly possible. JMO

[CinderL.]

sure was..!! I loved that song.. Never heard it before...

Poochie

Watch this. This is the first time I heard that song.

This is so funny. Loved this guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM3C_Rc3uwk&feature=related

eta: a better link

[Roxxanne]

Went back and watched it again, tiptop... It appears that the lift had already started rising up into the air when that guy ran up on it... Perhaps the Security guys were apprehensive about their legs being torn off or something and could do nothing but wait for it to come down.. The guy appears to be a little "off" to me..

Poochie

I went back and watched it again too and I think it's legit. Like you posted up thread, I don't think the promoter's or anyone else would risk a stunt like that. The guy was on the outside anything could have happened. I think he just got by and got up the ramp. I imagine security got their a's chew out tho!

[Poochie Pie]

I guess there's really no telling, Pie. It's totally possible it was a spur-of-the-moment event. I still have a hard time believing that, but it is certainly possible. JMO Thanks for the consideration, tiptop... IF it is authentic, I will certainly say that it was admirable of Michael J. to hold the guy the entire time to keep him from falling off..!! don't know how high that lift went, but it's scary just watching it.... It actually "bounces" from time to time as it moves up above the stage and had a speedy drop as it came down..!

Poochie

[daniel green]

The will was posted, not the trust.

Oh, OK! Thank you! I thought I had totally missed something.

So any details about residuals or whatever are just conjecture.

[GentleBreeze]

Michael Jackson Movie Is In The Works

http://newsone.com/entertainment/michael-jackson-movie-is-in-the-works/#more-270107

[Poochie Pie]

I went back and watched it again too and I think it's legit. Like you posted up thread, I don't think the promoter's or anyone else would risk a stunt like that. The guy was on the outside anything could have happened. I think he just got by and got up the ramp. I imagine security got their a's chew out tho! Agree, Roxxanne..!! Frightening just to watch it.... If his foot had slipped or anything... looks like it would have been quite the drop... I was very impressed with the way MJ just went on with the performance... Like I said, never missed a beat..!! I imagine that he was pretty freaked out about the whole thing though... truth be known..

Poochie

[daniel green]

I see GB posted something about a declaration. Not sure what all that entailed - I need to research that a bit. And yes, I too suspect JJ could manipulate and control from a distance. JMO

It was an affidavit that Joe Jackson signed saying that Katherine Jackson would be raising the children.

It has no legal meaning in that it is not enforceable nor was her being granted custody was contingent on it.

[daniel green]

I do think that the "Trust Laws" were posted..it is a very obscure law that most dont know about or understand unless they are setting one up in a will such as MJ did..or looking into it if you want to protect your estate...

LMS

Trust laws in general give absolutely no indication what is in MJ's.

[Poochie Pie]

Michael Jackson Movie Is In The Works

http://newsone.com/entertainment/michael-jackson-movie-is-in-the-works/#more-270107 Thanks GB..!! Have you been able to watch the video that we have been discussing..?? It's on youtube.. Search for "Earth Song".. I'm sure you would be impressed with Michael's humanity... I certainly was..

Poochie

[tiptop]

Michael Jackson Movie Is In The Works

http://newsone.com/entertainment/michael-jackson-movie-is-in-the-works/#more-270107

*sigh* Sad really that one may be worth more in death than in life. Why is that?

I found myself buying a Jackson 5 Greatest Hits CD. Only seven bucks. I guess we do tend to remember and emotion-buy. It may say more about ourselves than the artists, but it still pumps money into the system. And in this case, it pumps money into MJ's fund for the children. JMO

[CinderL.]

*sigh* Sad really that one may be worth more in death than in life. Why is that?

I found myself buying a Jackson 5 Greatest Hits CD. Only seven bucks. I guess we do tend to remember and emotion-buy. It may say more about ourselves than the artists, but it still pumps money into the system. And in this case, it pumps money into MJ's fund for the children. JMO

I wish all of our sluthing on here would pump some money into my fund. :laugh:

[tiptop]

It was an affidavit that Joe Jackson signed saying that Katherine Jackson would be raising the children.

It has no legal meaning in that it is not enforceable nor was her being granted custody was contingent on it.

Hmmmm, so just for show and the general public, per se?

Sounds like the Joe I know and..............dont love. lol JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Thanks GB..!! Have you been able to watch the video that we have been discussing..?? It's on youtube.. Search for "Earth Song".. I'm sure you would be impressed with Michael's humanity... I certainly was..

Poochie

I don't think I have but I sure will watch it, Poochie. I did see one where I thought he was very sweet but this one had a young woman who came running up on stage and she grabbed him and he didn't try to break away he just held onto her with one hand around her waist and continued to sing. He didn't miss a beat. I liked that one very much too but I have listened and watched so many of the videos I cant remember now what he was singing.:smile:

imo

[retiredcop]

Perhaps. But something tells me JJ wont give a rats rear end whether he signed something or not. He appears to be a controller and manipulator from way back. Someone incredibly concerned with cash flow. It remains to be seen whether or not he injects himself into the lives of his grandchildren. I think he will give it some time then try to push his way in. JMO

I don't think so because Ms Rowe has visitation rights. She will know how much he is around those children and what is going on. She has not given up her rights to the children. Ms Rowe wanted him away from those kids period. I believe this is her dong and Katherine gave in to this. Ms Rowe probably had to give in some too because he does not have to stay completely away from them. He can visit.

Katherine is appointed guardian for now. That can change. They will be careful. I do believe the affidavit was filed with the court.

in my opinion

[tiptop]

I wish all of our sluthing on here would pump some money into my fund. :laugh:

haha - you got a CD? I'll buy it...... :biggrin:

[CinderL.]

haha - you got a CD? I'll buy it...... :biggrin:


I wish. You want some gemstones? :scared:

[tiptop]

I don't think so because Ms Rowe has visitation rights. She will know how much he is around those children and what is going on. She has not given up her rights to the children. Ms Rowe wanted him away from those kids period. I believe this is her dong and Katherine gave in to this. Ms Rowe probably had to give in some too because he does not have to stay completely away from them. He can visit.

Katherine is appointed guardian for now. That can change. They will be careful.

in my opinion

I disagree, but I suppose it all remains to be seen. I think DR will eventually fade from the scene. After the autopsies have been divulged. After all the money has been situated. And in a year or two from now, DR will be a Christmas visitor and JJ will being trying his hardest to manipulate and control like he has always done. Well, if he is still alive. I hope you are right though. JMO

[retiredcop]

I disagree, but I suppose it all remains to be seen. I think DR will eventually fade from the scene. After the autopsies have been divulged. After all the money has been situated. And in a year or two from now, DR will be a Christmas visitor and JJ will being trying his hardest to manipulate and control like he has always done. Well, if he is still alive. I hope you are right though. JMO

I disagree completely about Ms Rowe. Posters have been completely wrong about her all along. This was NOT about money. The Lawyers on both sides made that perfectly clear.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

*sigh* Sad really that one may be worth more in death than in life. Why is that?

I found myself buying a Jackson 5 Greatest Hits CD. Only seven bucks. I guess we do tend to remember and emotion-buy. It may say more about ourselves than the artists, but it still pumps money into the system. And in this case, it pumps money into MJ's fund for the children. JMO

I think MJ has really made a tremendous amount of money in his lifetime and we know he gave half a billion away to charities but it does look like he is going to out do himself posthumously.

That is true and the co-administrators are saying this one movie could make hundreds of millions. They will market it to a worldwide audience. Wow what a deal for MJs estate which gets 90%.

I certainly have bought CDs since he passed away and now our grandchildren are wanting MJ music.:biggrin:

But it is great for MJs children.

Did you notice in the article that certain products cannot be in any of the commercials?

Man these guys are good. They seemed to have thought of everything.

imo

[tiptop]

I disagree completely about Ms Rowe. Posters have been completely wrong about her all along. This was NOT about money. The Lawyers on both sides made that perfectly clear.

in my opinion

I dont think it's about money. I think she will just lose interest.

She seems to be in a zone void of children. And that is fine. I am one who thinks she did nothing wrong in accepting money for being a surrogate. It all so fresh and current now. Let's see what happens in a year or two. JMO

[Imperfect4]

I disagree completely about Ms Rowe. Posters have been completely wrong about her all along. This was NOT about money. The Lawyers on both sides made that perfectly clear.

in my opinion

I'm not sure why she's taking such a beating here myself. She was, after all, the person MJ chose to carry two of his 3 children, and he was married to the woman.

She had something he wanted, and vice versa. He got children, she got money. Why is her side of the deal the one everyone takes shots at?

It's conceivable to me she felt she owed it to MJ and her children to at least slow down Joe's gravy train where Michael's kids are concerned. Seems she accomplished that, more or less.

[Poochie Pie]

*sigh* Sad really that one may be worth more in death than in life. Why is that?

I found myself buying a Jackson 5 Greatest Hits CD. Only seven bucks. I guess we do tend to remember and emotion-buy. It may say more about ourselves than the artists, but it still pumps money into the system. And in this case, it pumps money into MJ's fund for the children. JMO Awww... tiptop... what a nice sentiment.. "And in this case, it pumps money into MJ's fund for the children"... Now you have to admit it... When you play some of his music... ever catch yourself moving a little bit to the rythmn..?? Billie Jean is my all time favorite... :smile:

Poochie

[retiredcop]

I'm not sure why she's taking such a beating here myself. She was, after all, the person MJ chose to carry two of his 3 children, and he was married to the woman.

She had something he wanted, and vice versa. He got children, she got money. Why is her side of the deal the one everyone takes shots at?

It's conceivable to me she felt she owed it to MJ and her children to at least slow down Joe's gravy train where Michael's kids are concerned. Seems she accomplished that, more or less.

Yes, Mr Jackson and Ms Rowe reached a settlement and nothing wrong with that. She will keep getting the payments from that settlement as she should.

She was content with the children being with Mr Jackson, but when he died, she wasn't content with the dysfunctional Jackson clan having those kids without ground rules laid down.

She will visit and bond with them. I have no doubt about that now. She will be a torn in the side of Joe Jackson and Katherine if things don't go right.

in my opinion

[tiptop]

I'm not sure why she's taking such a beating here myself. She was, after all, the person MJ chose to carry two of his 3 children, and he was married to the woman.

She had something he wanted, and vice versa. He got children, she got money. Why is her side of the deal the one everyone takes shots at?

It's conceivable to me she felt she owed it to MJ and her children to at least slow down Joe's gravy train where Michael's kids are concerned. Seems she accomplished that, more or less.

I've wondered why she was chosen to have his kids. And have come to the conclusion that she was pretty much thrust into his orbit. I mean, how many women did Michael have a chance to meet and really get to know? It's not like he went to bars or met women online. lol, well - that we know of........

DR was his doc's nurse, right? Someone he saw frequently in a non-threatening manner. No pressure, no hassle. It doesnt surprise me she was a choice for him to bear his children. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

I will have to agree with you on this point..Debbie Row didn't get one extra dime out of this custody hearing..it does seems she only sought to make sure the kids get properly supervised..and that maybe with councilling she may be able to have some sort of relationship..but doubt she would wish to force those kids to do anything....

I think this whole hearing is based on "Outstanding" debt owed to her...nothing more and nothing less..but only wished all avenues be left open...

She doesn't strict me as a "maternal entity'..but I am sure since Mj is not here now..wants to make sure their interests are looked after..

I am NOT a DRowe lover...lol..but I do think the bashing of her is unfounded..she does create much emotion..

LMS

I am actually very proud of Debbie. I truly think she did the right thing this time. It has always been said that Debbie really deeply loved MJ so she knows what these children meant to him and I think she will be determined to see that they are properly cared for and I have always believed that Katherine and Debbie were never at odds with each other either and that will make it much better for the children. The ones that really count in all of this.

imo

[Poochie Pie]

I disagree completely about Ms Rowe. Posters have been completely wrong about her all along. This was NOT about money. The Lawyers on both sides made that perfectly clear.

in my opinion It is MY opinion retired, that being married to Michael J and knowing him so well, Ms rowe was privy to the abuse he suffered at the hands of his Father... and we have no idea how MUCH she knows re MJ's childhood.. I never thought her actions were about the "money" either... I believe she may have figured into the guardianship agreement with KJ... and Joe Jackson writing the "letter"... I don't believe she is in favor of JJ being involved in raising Michael's children... IMO

Poochie

[GentleBreeze]

I guess it's a matter of opinion. The purple jacket looked like something Maude would wear. imo

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[CinderL.]

I will have to agree with you on this point..Debbie Row didnt get one extra dime out of this custody hearing..it does seems she only sought to make sure the kids get properly supervised..and that maybe with councilling she may be able to have some sort of relationship..but doubt she would wish to force those kids to do anything....

I think this whole hearing is based on "Outstanding" debt owed to her...nothing more and nothing less..but only wished all avenues be left open...

She doesnt strict me as a "maternal entity'..but I am sure since Mj is not here now..wants to make sure their interests are looked after..

I am NOT a DRowe lover...lol..but I do think the bashing of her is unfounded..she does create much emotion..

LMS

I think she does care about the children, and IIRC MJ hadn't been paying her what he owed her. She wanted her money.

[Imperfect4]

I've wondered why she was chosen to have his kids. And have come to the conclusion that she was pretty much thrust into his orbit. I mean, how many women did Michael have a chance to meet and really get to know? It's not like he went to bars or met women online. lol, well - that we know of........

DR was his doc's nurse, right? Someone he saw frequently in a non-threatening manner. No pressure, no hassle. It doesnt surprise me she was a choice for him to bear his children. JMO

I have no clue. To your point, I suppose she was just in his orbit when he decided he wanted kids. Maybe the women we know he knew -- Brooke Shields, Lisa Marie Presley, whoever -- weren't approached on the subject, or weren't interested in any unorthodox parenting arrangements.

It's all so very odd. :huh:

[GentleBreeze]

I think she does care about the children, and IIRC MJ hadn't been paying her what he owed her. She wanted her money.

That was a few years back wasn't it. Nothing was mentioned about back pay just that she would continue to receive the monthly agreed amount that she and MJ had agreed upon.

imo

[CinderL.]

That was a few years back wasn't it. Nothing was mentioned about back pay just that she would continue to receive the monthly agreed amount that she and MJ had agreed upon.

imo

I don't think he had been paying her. It was talked about in the beginning of this but, I am not sure. He was 400 mil. in debt.

[CinderL.]

I think it was either DR or it was spelled out in the trust.

Could be it was spelled out. Good point.

[retiredcop]

It is MY opinion retired, that being married to Michael J and knowing him so well, Ms rowe was privy to the abuse he suffered at the hands of his Father... and we have no idea how MUCH she knows re MJ's childhood.. I never thought her actions were about the "money" either... I believe she may have figured into the guardianship agreement with KJ... and Joe Jackson writing the "letter"... I don't believe she is in favor of JJ being involved in raising Michael's children... IMO

Poochie

I think she doesn't want Joe anywhere near them. She tied him up in regard to being able to do much with them. Her and Mr Jackson were friends for thirty years and she loved him. I believe she loved him because she had two children with him and for him. She probably knows everything about the Jackson clan.

I think it will be good for the children to get to know her. It has been reported she is a very kind person, funny, and has many friends. She has moxie too. Those kids being around her would be in a normal setting. A little ranch and probably learning to do chores taking care of and riding horses. I think those kids will love it.

She loves those kids because she loved Mr Jackson.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

I don't think he had been paying her. It was talked about in the beginning of this but, I am not sure. He was 400 mil. in debt.

Oh believe me a lot of rich people are knee deep in debt yet they still spend loads of money and MJ was living in a 100,000K monthly rental and was still bringing in 85 million a year.

It is a common joke about rich people.....some say they are rich because they don't pay their bills. So he sure isn't any different than a lot of these other millionaires that overspend.

I just know her lawyer, irrc, said that she will continue to get the monthly support that he set up for her.

We don't know if they may have negotiated it after she went to court because from what I have read she hasn't been back to court since then saying he wasn't paying her.

imo

[daniel green]

I don't think "spanking" or "paddling" is what went on in that house. IMO There was EXTREME physical and mental abuse. I'm talking fists flying, bloody brutally sickening attacks. IMO

and according to LaToya

I agree.

And yet those 3 poor children are going to live with those ppl.

[daniel green]

IMO MJ injected himself with Demerol...just like always.

Yeah, I agree.

[tiptop]

I have no clue. To your point, I suppose she was just in his orbit when he decided he wanted kids. Maybe the women we know he knew -- Brooke Shields, Lisa Marie Presley, whoever -- weren't approached on the subject, or weren't interested in any unorthodox parenting arrangements.

It's all so very odd. :huh:

Yes, I guess this is something we may never know the truth about. I still think his marriage to Lisa Marie was orchestrated to aid in his defense against being called a pedophile. Lisa was only 3 weeks divorced when the marriage occurred IIRC. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

I think she doesn't want Joe anywhere near them. She tied him up in regard to being able to do much with them. Her and Mr Jackson were friends for thirty years and she loved him. I believe she loved him because she had two children with him and for him. She probably knows everything about the Jackson clan.

I think it will be good for the children to get to know her. It has been reported she is a very kind person, funny, and has many friends. She has moxie too. Those kids being around her would be in a normal setting. A little ranch and probably learning to do chores taking care of and riding horses. I think those kids will love it.

She loves those kids because she loved Mr Jackson.

in my opinion

I believe she loved him way before she had children for him and the reason she did have the children for him was because she loved him and felt he would be a wonderful father.

imo

[tiptop]

Not to mention she was always there...with a smile and a shot of Demerol. imo


Stop it.......:biggrin:

[daniel green]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124951605785809351.html

VERY interesting.

[retiredcop]

Not to mention she was always there...with a smile and a shot of Demerol. imo

Probably on Dr K's orders who she worked for when he was caring for Mr Jackson, not after.

in my opinion

[tiptop]

I believe she loved him way before she had children for him and the reason she did have the children for him was because she loved him and felt he would be a wonderful father.

imo

I would love to believe that too. But I have no clue about her, her thoughts, his thoughts about her, etc. So easy for the media to grab ahold of it all and create doubt for us.

While I dont chastise her for being a surrogate, I cant help but feel it was a perfect setup for her and she did it for the money, not for MJ. I dont think you go from having kids to loving horses and not wanting anything to do with kids overnight. But that is JMO of course. And again, to each her own. I dont think ill of her because of it. JMO

[GentleBreeze]

I agree. Somewhere it's written... that MJ paid LMP 15 million and the promise of helping her singing career for her to marry him. IMO cause I can't recall where I read it.

Pay Lisa Marie? LMAO!!!!

That woman has got more money than she will ever be able to spend in her life time.

Help her with her singing career? Lisa has plenty of contacts being EAPs daughter to get her own singing career.

Lisa can sing ok.......she tried it but she just isn't Elvis quality.

The best song she ever sang is when they had her daddy singing in the background.

imo

[retiredcop]

Probably...but that smile;)


Yesssssss:wink:

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Probably on Dr K's orders who she worked for when he was caring for Mr Jackson, not after.

in my opinion

Of course. Debbie worked for Dr. K for over 20 years.

imo

[who_is_it]

I agree. Somewhere it's written... that MJ paid LMP 15 million and the promise of helping her singing career for her to marry him. IMO cause I can't recall where I read it.

Lisa Marie is so so so straight forward and confident. She does what she WANTS and only what she wants. Listen to her music; no mainstream at all. I'm convinced it was a love marriage. Moreover Lisa Marie doesn't need money.

Here you can listen to LMP's and MJ's interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paMQXQzsJbc
(It has 4 parts.)

I think she was the love of his life.

[retiredcop]

Have we ever discussed if Diprivan is illegal to administer by a doctor in a home? It's not a controlled substance. If it were bought over the internet it was not obtained illegally. I don't think it is illegal to buy anyway. I know it shouldn't be done that way, but there were oxygen bottles in that room and who knows what other equipment was there.

I don't think it's the law only an anesthesiologist can administer it.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Guess what? I don't disagree with you or retrocop about Ms. Rowe.
:scared:

I am still trying to figure out who all are the ones that are supposed to be against DR. :confused: In fact I haven't seen her mentioned that much lately one way or the other.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Lisa Marie is so so so straight forward and confident. She does what she WANTS and only what she wants. Listen to her music; no mainstream at all. I'm convinced it was a love marriage. Moreover Lisa Marie doesn't need money.

Here you can listen to LMP's and MJ's interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paMQXQzsJbc

Lisa is so much like her father. She, like him, does things her way, like it or not.

imo

[tiptop]

Pay Lisa Marie? LMAO!!!!

That woman has got more money than she will ever be able to spend in her life time.

Help her with her singing career? Lisa has plenty of contacts being EAPs daughter to get her own singing career.

Lisa can sing ok.......she tried it but she just isn't Elvis quality.

The best song she ever sang is when they had her daddy singing in the background.

imo

I dont know about any money paid, but I do think part of their marriage arrangement was for MJ to help with her music career.

As you stated, Lisa is not the best singer. And with MJ's money, well maybe she would have stood a better chance of being played on the radio. Payola is still alive and well, unfortunately. Their marriage worked for some on many levels. And I am one who believes that Scientology (both Lisa and her mom are members) thought they would prosper from MJ's money because of the marriage. JMO

[retiredcop]

Guess what? I don't disagree with you or retrocop about Ms. Rowe.
:scared:


:scared::scared:

[who_is_it]

I believe she loved him way before she had children for him and the reason she did have the children for him was because she loved him and felt he would be a wonderful father.

imo

Like you I believe she had a crush on him since he went to Dr. Klein's office... but I'm not sure if Michael loved her (or just liked her).

I believe he loved Lisa Marie.

[Imperfect4]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124951605785809351.html

VERY interesting.

The arguments against regulation are compelling. I hadn't even considered the ramifications of not having the stuff immediately available in the case of an emergency, including needing to keep a patient under longer than anticipated.

As a patient, I think I want the anesthesiologist to have open access to my anesthesia. :scared:

[GentleBreeze]

I don't know about any money paid, but I do think part of their marriage arrangement was for MJ to help with her music career.

As you stated, Lisa is not the best singer. And with MJ's money, well maybe she would have stood a better chance of being played on the radio. Payola is still alive and well, unfortunately. Their marriage worked for some on many levels. And I am one who believes that Scientology (both Lisa and her mom are members) thought they would prosper from MJ's money because of the marriage. JMO

I don't think there was a prearrangement on anything. Now of course if he married her he would be supportive of what she wanted to do.

Lisa just looked at MJ with stars in her eyes to me. Why they came together who really knows. They both were rebels but I do think she did love him when she married him.

imo

[retiredcop]

I dont know about any money paid, but I do think part of their marriage arrangement was for MJ to help with her music career.

As you stated, Lisa is not the best singer. And with MJ's money, well maybe she would have stood a better chance of being played on the radio. Payola is still alive and well, unfortunately. Their marriage worked for some on many levels. And I am one who believes that Scientology (both Lisa and her mom are members) thought they would prosper from MJ's money because of the marriage. JMO

I think it was done to make Mr Jackson look like he wasn't involved with special little friends. Wasn't it shortly after the Jordy incident they got married?

I think it was to repair Mr Jackson very bad publicity. I just don't think he was ever involved romantically with any woman.

in my opinion only of course

[Imperfect4]

Guess what? I don't disagree with you or retrocop about Ms. Rowe.
:scared:

:scared: ..........

[who_is_it]

I dont know about any money paid, but I do think part of their marriage arrangement was for MJ to help with her music career.

As you stated, Lisa is not the best singer. And with MJ's money, well maybe she would have stood a better chance of being played on the radio. Payola is still alive and well, unfortunately. Their marriage worked for some on many levels. And I am one who believes that Scientology (both Lisa and her mom are members) thought they would prosper from MJ's money because of the marriage. JMO

I could imagine many women would have married MJ to push their career or for money... but not Lisa Marie. In the interview which I've posted above (don't remember which of the 4 parts is was) SHE said she doesn't want to sing and Michael said: "I would like her to sing."

She's no "yes"-sayer. She grew up with a portion of self confidence as Elvis' daughter. She's quite direct and confident.

[who_is_it]

Agree with every word! I think LMP was infatuated and used. She tired quickly when he wouldn't give up his special friends. imo

Why don't you watch the interview on youtube? -- It sounds very plausible. They knew each other as children, then had no more contact. Michael saw her on a cover of a magazine many years later and thought "wow", asked John Branca (= now executor) to find out her contact data.

Btw, Akon said in a recent interview they've talked about girls.
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1617492/20090803/akon.jhtml

[retiredcop]

I am still trying to figure out who all are the ones that are supposed to be against DR. :confused: In fact I haven't seen her mentioned that much lately one way or the other.

imo

OMG I guess I'll just say no comment. Oh wait, I will comment. The last barrage of insults to her was when she stepped forward regarding the custody of the children after Mr Jackson died. Debbie Rowe is selling the kids again! She sold them twice and now she selling them again and on and on. Please. I remember commenting page after page defending her, and not that long ago either.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Agree with every word! I think LMP was infatuated and used. She tired quickly when he wouldn't give up his special friends. imo

Yes, and Brooke Shields did too.

in my opinion

[who_is_it]

I think it was done to make Mr Jackson look like he wasn't involved with special little friends. Wasn't it shortly after the Jordy incident they got married?

I think it was to repair Mr Jackson very bad publicity. I just don't think he was ever involved romantically with any woman.

in my opinion only of course

Watch the interview. Lisa and Michael also talk about the allegations.

[retiredcop]

The extreme recklessness of the act is what makes it unlawful. Its not illegal to drive a car, but if you drive it through the mall on Saturday afternoon, and kill people, it becomes a criminal act.

I'm not talking about recklessness. I'm talking about the law regarding Diprivan.

in my opinion

[tiptop]

I think it was done to make Mr Jackson look like he wasn't involved with special little friends. Wasn't it shortly after the Jordy incident they got married?

I think it was to repair Mr Jackson very bad publicity. I just don't think he was ever involved romantically with any woman.

in my opinion only of course


This is my line of thinking as well. Mid-to-late 1993 MJ was in trouble, and in May 1994 he married Lisa. After her May 1994 divorce to Danny Keough. MJ allegedly proposed over the phone. Trying not to judge, but how can you not? They may have grown to care about each other somewhat, but I still think it was initially set up. JMO

[retiredcop]

Like you I believe she had a crush on him since he went to Dr. Klein's office... but I'm not sure if Michael loved her (or just liked her).

I believe he loved Lisa Marie.

Mr Jackson liked her and was friends with Ms Rowe for 30 years. No he didn't love her but respected her and their friendship. Ms Rowe love him. One sided.

Mr Jackson never loved any woman romantically.

in my opinion

[CinderL.]

Oh believe me a lot of rich people are knee deep in debt yet they still spend loads of money and MJ was living in a 100,000K monthly rental and was still bringing in 85 million a year.

It is a common joke about rich people.....some say they are rich because they don't pay their bills. So he sure isn't any different than a lot of these other millionaires that overspend.

I just know her lawyer, irrc, said that she will continue to get the monthly support that he set up for her.

We don't know if they may have negotiated it after she went to court because from what I have read she hasn't been back to court since then saying he wasn't paying her.

imo

could be.
As to the money .....it was said he was spending 35 grand more a month than he was taking in. And, I thought that AEG was paying for the house??? Not sure about that either.

[GentleBreeze]

I think it was done to make Mr Jackson look like he wasn't involved with special little friends. Wasn't it shortly after the Jordy incident they got married?

I think it was to repair Mr Jackson very bad publicity. I just don't think he was ever involved romantically with any woman.

in my opinion only of course

I think you are wrong.

Lisa wasn't even married to Nicolas Cage but 180 days before he divorced her.:biggrin: She has been married four times.

http://askville.amazon.com/times-Lisa-Marie-Presley-married/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=13980256

Twenty days after her divorce from Keough, Presley married singer Michael Jackson on May 26, 1994, in the Dominican Republic. They had first met when 7-year-old Presley attended several of his shows in Las Vegas. According to Yahoo.com, when they met again as adults, "things moved very quickly", with Jackson proposing over the telephone after four months. They stayed in contact every day over the telephone. As child molestation accusations became public, Jackson became dependent on Lisa Marie for emotional support; she was concerned about his faltering health and his addiction to drugs. Lisa Marie explained, "I believed he didn't do anything wrong, and that he was wrongly accused and, yes, I started falling for him. I wanted to save him. I felt that I could do it." Shortly afterwards, she tried to persuade Jackson to settle the allegations out of court and go into rehabilitation to recover—he subsequently did both.

In 1995, she appeared in nothing but a towel around her waist in the music video for his song "You Are Not Alone". In the video they kissed and hugged, it was one of the few instances where their affection for one another was seen in public view. The marriage was, in her words, "a married couple's life ... that was sexually active". Presley filed for divorce in January 1996, but the couple remain friendly. In 2005, Presley was considered as a witness for Jackson's trial after he had been charged with child molestation. The media took Presley out of context reporting that she had said "I saw things I couldn't do anything about". Presley then released a statement saying that she never saw her then-husband engage in improper behavior with children". Jackson was found not guilty of the charges.

Presley was engaged in 2000 to rocker John Oszajca. She broke off the engagement after meeting Nicolas Cage at a party.

[retiredcop]

and Tatum O'Neil imo

YES, didn't she say he would freeze up when she tried to get romantic with him and never would even touch her?

in my opinion only

[who_is_it]

OMG I guess I'll just say no comment. Oh wait, I will comment. The last barrage of insults to her was when she stepped forward regarding the custody of the children after Mr Jackson died. Debbie Rowe is selling the kids again! She sold them twice and now she selling them again and on and on. Please. I remember commenting page after page defending her, and not that long ago either.

in my opinion

DR has had visitation rights in the past. It was a problem, she said, because Michael and the kids often were outside of the US. I believe she was always interested in seeing the kids.

She took money... -- so what? There were worse leeches surrounding Michael Jackson.

DR never spoke out to the media and wasn't out to get her 15 minutes -- not even now. She always was discrete. This speaks for her imo.

The prosecution dined with her one night before she testified... but surprisingly she said what SHE thought was righteous.

[CinderL.]

Have we ever discussed if Diprivan is illegal to administer by a doctor in a home? It's not a controlled substance. If it were bought over the internet it was not obtained illegally. I don't think it is illegal to buy anyway. I know it shouldn't be done that way, but there were oxygen bottles in that room and who knows what other equipment was there.

I don't think it's the law only an anesthesiologist can administer it.

in my opinion

It doesn't have to be given by only an anesthesiologist. My RN friend gives it all the time in the ER....but, there is always a respiratory therapist present and another RN. I really don't think he, Dr. Murray bought it online. I think someone got it for him.

[tiptop]

could be.
As to the money .....it was said he was spending 35 grand more a month than he was taking in. And, I thought that AEG was paying for the house??? Not sure about that either.

I wondered about the rented house too. I heard MJ was paying something like $100K a month when it was only worth maybe $25-35K/month. Would AEG be an idiot again here ---- much like it appears they have been with the medical physical? Could Michael really pass a 4-hour physical to their liking? JMO

[retiredcop]

I think you are wrong.

Lisa wasn't even married to Nicolas Cage but 180 days before he divorced her.:biggrin: She has been married four times.

http://askville.amazon.com/times-Lisa-Marie-Presley-married/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=13980256

Twenty days after her divorce from Keough, Presley married singer Michael Jackson on May 26, 1994, in the Dominican Republic. They had first met when 7-year-old Presley attended several of his shows in Las Vegas. According to Yahoo.com, when they met again as adults, "things moved very quickly", with Jackson proposing over the telephone after four months. They stayed in contact every day over the telephone. As child molestation accusations became public, Jackson became dependent on Lisa Marie for emotional support; she was concerned about his faltering health and his addiction to drugs. Lisa Marie explained, "I believed he didn't do anything wrong, and that he was wrongly accused and, yes, I started falling for him. I wanted to save him. I felt that I could do it." Shortly afterwards, she tried to persuade Jackson to settle the allegations out of court and go into rehabilitation to recover—he subsequently did both.

In 1995, she appeared in nothing but a towel around her waist in the music video for his song "You Are Not Alone". In the video they kissed and hugged, it was one of the few instances where their affection for one another was seen in public view. The marriage was, in her words, "a married couple's life ... that was sexually active". Presley filed for divorce in January 1996, but the couple remain friendly. In 2005, Presley was considered as a witness for Jackson's trial after he had been charged with child molestation. The media took Presley out of context reporting that she had said "I saw things I couldn't do anything about". Presley then released a statement saying that she never saw her then-husband engage in improper behavior with children". Jackson was found not guilty of the charges.

Presley was engaged in 2000 to rocker John Oszajca. She broke off the engagement after meeting Nicolas Cage at a party.

This prove nothing. I still believe it was a set up marriage. No love at all.

in my opinion

[who_is_it]

<snipped for length>
The marriage was, in her words, "a married couple's life ... that was sexually active". Presley filed for divorce in January 1996, but the couple remain friendly.
<snipped>



In this video they say that she was -- to the surprise of the moderator -- with him in his dressing room at a concert AFTER their divorce.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaX607Grc8E

[Poochie Pie]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124951605785809351.html

VERY interesting. Thank you Daniel... Dear Lord...!!! what a frightening read... To think this is kept with the band aids and ointment... I am just astounded..!! this drug needs to be regulated and controlled ASAP... IMO

Poochie

[Roxxanne]

For someone who appears to dislike, disagree and disaprove of Michael Jackson, you sure know a lot of intimate details about every aspect of his life.

Very odd.

imo...of course.

Very odd indeed! MOO

[who_is_it]

YES, didn't she say he would freeze up when she tried to get romantic with him and never would even touch her?

in my opinion only

Allegedly she said he was very shy. "Freeze up"? -- I don't know about this. Everybody knows how touchy-feely MJ was, for example with fans. He hugged "everybody".

[GentleBreeze]

This prove nothing. I still believe it was a set up marriage. No love at all.

in my opinion

And I still believe you are wrong.

Love is easy to recognize and Lisa looked at MJ with love struck stars in her eyes. It showed on her face as she seems so wrapped up in him with him just sitting close to her.

IMO

[retiredcop]

It doesn't have to be given by only an anesthesiologist. My RN friend gives it all the time in the ER....but, there is always a respiratory therapist present and another RN. I really don't think he, Dr. Murray bought it online. I think someone got it for him.

I agree maybe someone got it for him, but I don't believe it is illegal for a doctor to administer it in a home. I don't think Dr Murray is in legal trouble for that.

in my opinion

[who_is_it]

I wondered about the rented house too. I heard MJ was paying something like $100K a month when it was only worth maybe $25-35K/month. Would AEG be an idiot again here ---- much like it appears they have been with the medical physical? Could Michael really pass a 4-hour physical to their liking? JMO

The source of the "information" about the house was the interview with Grace Rwaramba in the "Times, UK". It was debunked by Grace. The "Times UK" deleted the link.

[CinderL.]

I wondered about the rented house too. I heard MJ was paying something like $100K a month when it was only worth maybe $25-35K/month. Would AEG be an idiot again here ---- much like it appears they have been with the medical physical? Could Michael really pass a 4-hour physical to their liking? JMO

I can't find anything about AEG paying for the house. I thought I had heard that right after MJ died. I must be wrong.
As to the physical, I have no idea how he would pass.

[BOZGAL2]

For someone who appears to dislike, disagree and disaprove of Michael Jackson, you sure know a lot of intimate details about every aspect of his life.

Very odd.

imo...of course.

:lol:
Its the simple things. :lol:

[retiredcop]

For someone who appears to dislike, disagree and disaprove of Michael Jackson, you sure know a lot of intimate details about every aspect of his life.

Very odd.

imo...of course.

I followed him over the years like others I followed. I did like his music.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

In this video they say that she was -- to the surprise of the moderator -- with him in his dressing room at a concert AFTER their divorce.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaX607Grc8E

Oh that was so cool. I am glad Lisa was there.

But OMG! Did you see his costumes? It said he may change clothes 15 times in one three hour show.:scared:

imo

[tiptop]

The source of the "information" about the house was the interview with Grace Rwaramba in the "Times, UK". It was debunked by Grace. The "Times UK" deleted the link.

Interesting. I hadnt heard the debunked part of it.

[CinderL.]

I agree maybe someone got it for him, but I don't believe it is illegal for a doctor to administer it in a home. I don't think Dr Murray is in legal trouble for that.

in my opinion

It would be IMO illegal just for the fact that he didn't have the proper equipment. That would be negligence of some kind. I don't know if he could maybe just lose his medical license or more could be charged. Look at HKS he was arrested for getting medication for ANS. If there was no legal distribution of the drug, I think the Dr. will be in trouble, for that alone.....let alone the negligence.

[who_is_it]

Mr Jackson liked her and was friends with Ms Rowe for 30 years. No he didn't love her but respected her and their friendship. Ms Rowe love him. One sided.

Mr Jackson never loved any woman romantically.

in my opinion

I agree on your words about DR...

... but not on the last part of your post. I think he was in love with Lisa Marie and in general attracted by women. Why would Akon tell MTV they talked about girls, for example? The magazines found in the raid also clearly shows his heterosexual orientation when he was single.

I don't know yet if I should believe the story that Grace was his longterm girlfriend.... but most time there's something true about rumors -- specially as it was already discussed in 2006.

[CinderL.]

You asked if its illegal to administer diprivan in the home. I answered yes because the drug is inherently dangerous, and to administer outside a hospital setting is a gross deviation from the standard of conduct, and a Doctor is or should be aware that there was a substantial danger of serious bodily harm or death.

Yes. Jinx. :laugh:

[who_is_it]

Interesting. I hadnt heard the debunked part of it.

"The nanny who cared for Michael Jackson's three kids says reports that she pumped Jackson's stomach several times are bogus."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/mjs-former-nanny-i-never-pumped-his-stomach/


... and on the website of her friend:

"I am shocked, hurt and deeply saddened by recent statements the press has attributed to me, in particular, the outrageous and patently false claim that I “routinely pumped his stomach after he had ingested a dangerous combination of drugs". I don’t even know how to pump a stomach!! In addition, I have never spoken to the Times Online, the original source of the story that has now been picked up worldwide. The statements attributed to me confirm the worst in human tendencies to sensationalize tragedy and smear reputations for profit."

http://www.intent.com/mallikachopra/blog/statement-grace-rwaramba-regarding-michael-jackson

[retiredcop]

The source of the "information" about the house was the interview with Grace Rwaramba in the "Times, UK". It was debunked by Grace. The "Times UK" deleted the link.

I remember hearing on the news Mr Jackson was behind in his rent and that is why the family members rushed over with the moving vans. They were afraid the landlord would keep his things.

in my opinion

[CinderL.]

I agree on your words about DR...

... but not on the last part of your post. I think he was in love with Lisa Marie and in general attracted by women. Why would Akon tell MTV they talked about girls, for example? The magazines found in the raid also clearly shows his heterosexual orientation when he was single.

I don't know yet if I should believe the story that Grace was his longterm girlfriend.... but most time there's something true about rumors -- specially as it was already discussed in 2006.

I have to say, I don't think MJ was attracted to women. I really don't think he was attracted to anyone but maybe himself. IMO

[tiptop]

You asked if its illegal to administer diprivan in the home. I answered yes because the drug is inherently dangerous, and to administer outside a hospital setting is a gross deviation from the standard of conduct, and a Doctor is or should be aware that there was a substantial danger of serious bodily harm or death.

I'm not sure if that answers the question though. Is it a controlled substance? It may be morally wrong to use it outside a hospital setting but is it legally wrong?

[retiredcop]

You asked if its illegal to administer diprivan in the home. I answered yes because the drug is inherently dangerous, and to administer outside a hospital setting is a gross deviation from the standard of conduct, and a Doctor is or should be aware that there was a substantial danger of serious bodily harm or death.

IS IT ILLEGAL? Is there a written law about it? Do you have a link to the state statute? Don't bother, you don't understand what I'm trying to find out.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

I remember hearing on the news Mr Jackson was behind in his rent and that is why the family members rushed over with the moving vans. They were afraid the landlord would keep his things.

in my opinion

I haven't ever heard that. It certainly would be wise for the family to remove his possessions quickly as I have no doubt he had many many expensive things in the home.

He died on the 25th so why pay rent on the 1st when he no longer would be living there?

imo

[retiredcop]

I'm not sure if that answers the question though. Is it a controlled sunstance? It may be morally wrong to use it outside a hospital setting but is it legally wrong?

Exactly, thank you. I know it is not a controlled substance.

in my opinion

[CinderL.]

I'm not sure if that answers the question though. Is it a controlled sunstance? It may be morally wrong to use it outside a hospital setting but is it legally wrong?

I think it would be legally wrong for a Dr., first of all depending on where it came from, as there is no RX for it, and second, IF you didn't have the proper equipment on hand to administer it. That would be negligent homicide right?

[who_is_it]

Oh that was so cool. I am glad Lisa was there.

But OMG! Did you see his costumes? It said he may change clothes 15 times in one three hour show.:scared:

imo

Very artsy fartsy costumes -- somehow "space look".

[retiredcop]

To know all those intimate details you would have had to follow him over the years, in a literal sense. Listening to Thriller on the radio doesn't give someone detailed insight into his private issues.

imo...of course.

This thread is not about me. Stop baiting.

in my opinion

[CinderL.]

I haven't ever heard that. It certainly would be wise for the family to remove his possessions quickly as I have no doubt he had many many expensive things in the home.

He died on the 25th so why pay rent on the 1st when he no longer would be living there?

imo

All rent isn't due on the first of the month.

[GentleBreeze]

I have to say, I don't think MJ was attracted to women. I really don't think he was attracted to anyone but maybe himself. IMO

I think he was. The more I have read and research I think he had sex and probably a lot of it with Lisa and maybe through the years with Grace. They both are very attractive women.

Plus he could have had women in other countries. I am sure he had those who were more than willing to oblige.

imo