8/3 ~ 8/4 [8/3 custody and executor hearings]

[daniel green]

I was watching and I thought that Paris said something about being in movies and than MJ said something like "are you going to say your lines?" Something like that....seems strange though, Paris says almost word or word what she said at the memorial. Seems a little rehearsed.

They sang "You Are My Sunshine" and sang, please don't take my Dad away. Poor little children.

JMO

Oh, that is so sad. :sad:

[daniel green]

Was the "paid employee" a member of one of the professions that is required to report?

No, as a person. In many states anyone--not anyone of a profession--is supposed to report to child welfare/DSS.

[daniel green]

I think this is the whole video that is being discussed. Not sure though.

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2009/07/31/michael_jackson_home_video_surfaces_watc

Thank you. Actually, MJ asks the little boy if he will say his lines as an actor, if he's in a movie. Not like say his lines for the video.

That little girl has gorgeous eyes.

Did the kids always wear makeup?

Ugh, on the chimp. That is animal abuse to have a chimp in human clothes and in a house. :cursing:

[GentleBreeze]

All I can say is wow...Unless you have walked in those shoes..you really have no idea on just role "Nannies" play in the lives of kids..
Inconsequential???Rather uninformed about child caregivers..I wonder what life experiences of yours give this insight???..I feel rather sorry for your lack of experience..but then again we are all products of our Life Experiences

LMS

Hmmmmmm......

imo

[daniel green]

I think the video was a lot strange. The whole video looked very staged. But, on the other hand, I am sure some of our home movies look that way too.

Yes, I would agree. A lot strange.

Not least of all the song about "our mothers."

[daniel green]

That doesnt look like Grace to me.

Here is Grace.

http://fisherwy.blogspot.com/2009/07/michael-jackson-nanny-grace-rwaramba.html

"Grace loved Michael and he loved her. The kids called her ‘Mom’." Ian Barkley, Michael’s personal photographer for three years, was quoted as saying.

Is that the basis for the belief that this woman was a great nanny and mother figure or do we know that from other sources? No snark, I really don't know.

[daniel green]

Not in California... only a handful of professionals are required reporters.

Thankfully, most child abuse and/or neglect is not reported by those required reporters, but by caring human beings who are witnesses of any SUSPECTED abuse and/or neglect.

[BOZGAL2]

I must say I do not see anything staged with the videos.

I see PURE LOVE from the children for their Father and his love in return.
I know I would hate for my pictures or videos to be picked apart like a ragdoll. JMO and I am sticking to it.

I do not remember any home videos of Elvis being picked apart like this. Also my opinion and observation.

[February]

I don't think video was invented yet. But I agree with you. These are private home videos, not made for the public to view, much less analyze and critique every word said.


Sometimes you have to shake your heard and consider the source.
I've noticed a lot of haters on this forum which is really sad.

[CinderL.]

Sometimes you have to shake your heard and consider the source.
I've noticed a lot of haters on this forum which is really sad.

I don't think there are a lot of haters on the board. There are people who don't think everything MJ has done is wonderful, and there are people that question the family, and there are people who question the people that MJ had around him. There are many different opinions about everything in this case, doesn't mean people are haters. IMO

[BOZGAL2]

I don't think video was invented yet. But I agree with you. These are private home videos, not made for the public to view, much less analyze and critique every word said.

Sorry I said Elvis videos. I think they called them 'home movies' in those days. :smile:

I have seen them on TV, not sure if it was A&E, Biography or perhaps when Priscilla has appeared on various shows. Anyway I have seen numerous home movies of Elvis and his family.

I will be the first to admit my memory is not as good as it once was.:wink:

[daniel green]

1) Who gave the video to the media?

2) Could anyone pls tell me where the nanny's good reputation, etc, has been gleaned? Why was she fired by MJ?

3) Did anyone catch Entertainment Tonight? DD showed the picture of the alleged death bed scene, complete with medical equipement nearby, etc. There was also a phone right next to the bed.

[BOZGAL2]

And of course DR could not use his mobile because he did not know the address. I mean how did he arrive there in the first place?

I also thought new mobile phones have the 911 capability. Mine even has that.

JMO

[BOZGAL2]

1) Who gave the video to the media?

2) Could anyone pls tell me where the nanny's good reputation, etc, has been gleaned? Why was she fired by MJ?

3) Did anyone catch Entertainment Tonight? DD showed the picture of the alleged death bed scene, complete with medical equipement nearby, etc. There was also a phone right next to the bed.

1) I would think a family member or maybe one of the employees took the video. JMO
2) I do not Grace has been maligned one bit and I would like to know why she was released as well.
3) I did not see ET but the phone business has never flown with me. JMO

[BOZGAL2]

I watched LKL tonight as well and am curious about what proof KJ has.
Very interesting comments. IMO

TFS the link about Malnik. I had not heard that. Probably because it is one of the few comments that has not been discussed/repeated ad nauseam on all the shows.

[BOZGAL2]

Michael Jackson's Former Publicist Raymone Bain Talks About Michael As A Father (video)

http://video.ivillage.com/player/?id=1130761&ice=vid,fpp,as,4c,2,Michael+Jackson%27s+Former+Pub licist+Raymone+Bain+Talks+About+Michael+As+A+Fathe r

TFS
Raymone would certainly know of what she speaks.

Now I am curious about the lawsuit filed. Will this be settled from the estate? I assume it will.

[BOZGAL2]

MJ'S various fallouts with good friends in the past few years always makes me wonder who may have infiltrated into his inner circle and possibly precipitated these problems.

I think I need to research more about AEG. JMO

[daniel green]

Meyer Lansky?????? :ohmy:

[BOZGAL2]

June 19, 2009

“Despite rumors and innuendos that may have surfaced before that date, Mr. Jackson did not conceive any lawsuit would be possible” because of an agreement Bain allegedly signed, his lawyers wrote in their motion.

Besides asking Robertson to get rid of the default entry, Jackson’s lawyers have also filed a motion to dismiss Bain’s suit. The publicist alleges that Jackson never paid her money she earned by arranging a series of lucrative business deals for the star. But Jackson's lawyers say Bain signed a release agreement that paid her $500,000 in return for waiving her right to any future earnings.

http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/06/michael-jackson-finally-takes-the-stage-in-dc-court.html

Again TFS.
I thought GR mentioned the lawsuit on one of the occasions when RB was on his show. She was a wonderful spokesperson for him during the trial and was genuinely upset and concerned over his death.

This is another close relationship that suddenly went to the wayside. Again I am curious about who could have been behind these fallouts. JMO

[daniel green]

OK, I have gone to search for the info on the nanny, myself.

From the UK's newspaper of record, The Guardian:

She claims she was sacked by Jackson because she was getting too close to the children but had fully expected to be reinstated soon. She said he would regularly fire her then beg her to return as he was unable to look after the children or himself. She told Barak: "These poor babies ... I was getting phone calls that they were being neglected. Nobody was cleaning the rooms because Michael didn't pay the housekeeper. "I was getting calls telling me Michael was in such a bad shape. He wasn't clean. He hadn't shaved. He wasn't eating well. I used to do all this for him and they were trying to get me to go back." One theory behind Jackson's massive drug regimen is that he was taking them to combat the stress of his forthcoming 50 shows at the O2 arena in London. The nanny said: "Fifty performances! I told him ... 'what are you doing?' He said, 'I signed only for 10.' He didn't know what he was signing. He never did."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/jun/28/michael-jackson-death-nanny

[daniel green]

He was his lawyer. :rolleyes:

imo

Oh for the love of pete. What a collection of folks.

[daniel green]

From The Sunday Times, which is a serious newspaper.

Newspapers focused on serious journalism

The Sunday Times (est. 1822)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom

Grace Rwaramba, 42, who flew from London to Los Angeles yesterday in the hope of being reunited with his children, has given a graphic account of the singer’s increasingly desperate final months. She was speaking exclusively to top international interviewer Daphne Barak. She paints a grim picture of Jackson, sometimes penniless but deluded about his “riches”, leading a nomadic life, moving from country to country and hotel to hotel, before allegedly falling under the increasing influence of the Nation of Islam, the extremist sect. Jackson is believed to have been taking up to eight different drugs a day, including three narcotic painkillers. Rwaramba, who is expected to be interviewed by detectives about whether she helped administer the drugs, told Barak: “I had to pump his stomach many times. He always mixed so much of it. “There was one period that it was so bad that I didn’t let the children see him . . . He always ate too little and mixed too much.”

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article6591237.ece

[daniel green]

snipped

This is another close relationship that suddenly went to the wayside. Again I am curious about who could have been behind these fallouts. JMO

Wasn't it always money?

From the link:

On Monday, attorneys from Dewey & LeBoeuf filed an appearance for Jackson at the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, 11 days after the court clerk’s office filed entry of default against the performer. Jackson didn’t respond after his former publicist, Raymone Bain, filed a $44 million lawsuit against him on May 5. Last week, Judge James Robertson held a hearing with Bain’s attorney, Frederick Samuels, name partner of Cahn & Samuels, to discuss a possible default judgment for his client.

[BOZGAL2]

Meyer Lansky?????? :ohmy:


LOL
A little OT info.
Lucky, Bugsy, Frank and Meyer were longtime friends from when they were teens.

Actually, Meyer was know as the financial brains of the operations in later years. It is written his wealth was well overstated, at one time over 300 million, yet when he died he only had $37,000. I don't know if I believe that was all that was left. :wink:
But then it got real ugly when Meyer had to make the final visit to Bugsy about all the money that had been lost in the Flamingo deal in Las Vegas. Virginia Hill, Bugsy's gal had transferred the $ to Swiss accounts. Not ever proved if Bugs was in on the deal or not but he paid the price for it anyway.
All this info on Wiki.

I've always been fascinated by this stuff and read numerous books.

[BOZGAL2]

DG

Sometimes the fallouts were about $ but not always.

[daniel green]

Grace Rwaramba has spoken, in an article in the London Times! In the world of Michael Jackson this is equivalence of a nuclear bomb going off. Grace Rwaramba the closest thing to a wife Michael Jackson ever had. When the children arrived it was Grace who was there to swaddle them, hold them, feed them and give them the only “Mother Figure” they’ve ever known. She was like a roommate to Michael Jackson for some 15 years - and was rewarded for her devotion, she says, by repeatedly being fired and rehired. When her lupus flared to an alarming degree she finally decided she would never go back. Now that the biological mother of the oldest two children, Debbie Rowe, says she doesn’t want custody Grace could have a shot at gaining custody of the kids. Or maybe the sperm donor (which Rowe now acknowledges) would come forward. (He is a long time friend/business acquaintance of both Jackson and Rowe) The bottom line to the immediate nuclear fallout here: Grace is finally confirming the bizarre, nomadic, delusional and dangerous way Michael Jackson lived his life. She also reveals that the matriarch of the family - Katherine Jackson - called her after Michael died to quiz her about “where the money was hidden.” Grace says there wasn’t any. The article is written by journalist Daphne Barack.


UPDATE FOR THE RECORD:

Grace Rwaramba has issued a partial denial to the above story. Most specifically she denies ever having pumped Michael Jackson’s stomach. Her statement, issued on the web site of a friend, also denies she ever spoke to the Times of London.com. But the story posted there is NOT from a Times of London reporter it was written under the by-line of freelance journalist Daphne Barack. It is interesting to note in her statement Rwaramba does not deny other major portions of the story by Barack. Most notably she does not deny Jackson’s rampant drug abuse

http://dianedimond.net/michael-jackson-dead-at-50-part-2/

[MiamiNice1]

FYI, All the info posted about Nanny Grace is OLD info already discussed. Repeatedly.

[BOZGAL2]

http://www.intent.com/mallikachopra/blog/statement-grace-rwaramba-regarding-michael-jackson

This is a statement from Grace disputing some of the reported quotes.

[daniel green]

Also his children’s nanny, Grace Rwaramba claims in court documents that she suggested a Jackson associate to send her the money instead of Jackson, as she knew “he would squander the money shopping instead of paying his immediate obligations”. Even his spending patterns, declared during his divorce from Debbie Rowe in 1999, revealed his lavish lifestyle, as he spent 2.3 million dollars every month while he earned 707,000 dollars only.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/entertainment/mj-a-financial-and-legal-deadbeat_100226376.html

[mrsmcgoo]

I wonder how the media got their hands on the private video? It seems strange that the children were masked and kept out of the media, but now they are on display.

Also, I remember that when ANS died, pictures and videos were sold to the "Splash" and other highest bidders. I noticed that "Splash" was written on the video. That to me means that someone is selling these movies, a little pocket change at the children's expense in my opinion.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

GB, you may want to check you math on this one. That video was in 2002, seven years ago and there were four candles on that cake not that it really makes a difference. IIRC she in now 11.

Oh, I am sorry. I was going by what I thought Jean said last night and I thought she said the video was made in 1999-2000.

But you are right, whenever it was... these were private home videos done years ago,

[GentleBreeze]

Is that the basis for the belief that this woman was a great nanny and mother figure or do we know that from other sources? No snark, I really don't know.

Countless people over the years have commented on Grace's deep relationship with the children.

You can probably google and come up with some of their names.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Dr. Murray claims the phones were disconnected.

The doctor who was with Michael Jackson when he died was unable to call the emergency services because none of the phones in the singer's rented property worked, his lawyer has said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5686627/Michael-Jacksons-doctor-couldnt-dial-911-because-phones-didnt-work.html

So are we to believe that a doctor has no cell phone of his own?

imo

[GentleBreeze]

From The Sunday Times, which is a serious newspaper.





http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article6591237.ece

I first saw this reported in a UK tabloid.

Grace has said she never said these things and she also said she doesn't even know HOW to pump someone's stomach out.

imo

[flipflop]

So are we to believe that a doctor has no cell phone of his own?

imo

This is what I remember reading as to why the Dr didn't use his cell phone to call. :rolleyes:

Attorney Edward Chernoff explained this somewhat odd revelation regarding the Michael Jackson 911 call by saying that Dr. Conrad Murray didn't call from his cellphone because know the exact address of Michael Jackson's rented mansion.

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/06/criticism-of-dr-conrad-murray-intensifies-in-michael-jackson-cas/

[flipflop]

This is what I remember reading as to why the Dr didn't use his cell phone to call. :rolleyes:

Attorney Edward Chernoff explained this somewhat odd revelation regarding the Michael Jackson 911 call by saying that Dr. Conrad Murray didn't call from his cellphone because know the exact address of Michael Jackson's rented mansion.

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/06/criticism-of-dr-conrad-murray-intensifies-in-michael-jackson-cas/

I dont know about the credibility of thehollywoodgossip so here is the link from tmz regarding the same issue.

Chernoff explained this bizarre revelation by saying Dr. Conrad Murray didn't immediately make the call from his cell phone because he didn't know the exact address of Michael's mansion. For the record, the house is just above Sunset Blvd. in Beverly Hills -- one of the most famous streets in the country.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/06/29/jacksons-doc-didnt-call-911-for-30-minutes/

[VC2]

I wonder how the media got their hands on the private video? It seems strange that the children were masked and kept out of the media, but now they are on display.

Also, I remember that when ANS died, pictures and videos were sold to the "Splash" and other highest bidders. I noticed that "Splash" was written on the video. That to me means that someone is selling these movies, a little pocket change at the children's expense in my opinion.

JMO

exactly! someone is. as far as seeing their faces go, MJ and the kids had appeared a few times publicly and been photographed without masks the last year or two, probably because he felt his security was enough combined with the two oldest saying no! i won't wear one lol. you know what kids are like at 10-12.

Whoever sold the video to splash tho...grrrrr

[mrsmcgoo]

exactly! someone is. as far as seeing their faces go, MJ and the kids had appeared a few times publicly and been photographed without masks the last year or two, probably because he felt his security was enough combined with the two oldest saying no! i won't wear one lol. you know what kids are like at 10-12.

Whoever sold the video to splash tho...grrrrr

Just seems mean to expose the children this way. They have been through enough. :crying:

[GentleBreeze]

TMZ is being sued.

http://www.showbiz411.com/?71b62480

Debbie Rowe, the mother of Michael Jackson’s two eldest children, and Marc Schaffel, Jackson’s former business partner, have already had several email exchanges with the TMZ lawyers through their attorney, Howard King.

The issue: a video clip that TMZ posted on July 20th of Rowe from outtakes of an interview Schaffel produced in early 2003.

King sent a strongly worded letter to the Sheriff’s Department on July 27th that was the culmination of a week of frustration determining where the clip had come from and how it had been obtained.

Following Jackson’s acquittal, all those materials that formed the evidence from the child molestation trial were supposed to have been returned to the people from which they taken, or destroyed.

[ellegna]

Playing devil's advocate here.

Is it possible someone from the Jackson family released those videos?
There has been so much negativity reported about MJ so maybe someone from his family wanted the public to see a more gentle, caring MJ and what a great father he was.

KJ is a devout JW and is not permitted to attend birthday celebrations so it's quite possible MJ made copies for her to watch.

Maybe MJ's personal friends released the videos? Wont be surprised if MJ made copies for them. Here's a video released by Al Malnik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5fSrvb-3KY

Not saying that's what happened. Just throwing out another possibility the videos may not have been sold but voluntarily released by family/friends to allow the public to see a much more different side of MJ than what the media was reporting.

[who_is_it]

TMZ is being sued.

http://www.showbiz411.com/?71b62480

Debbie Rowe, the mother of Michael Jackson’s two eldest children, and Marc Schaffel, Jackson’s former business partner, have already had several email exchanges with the TMZ lawyers through their attorney, Howard King.

The issue: a video clip that TMZ posted on July 20th of Rowe from outtakes of an interview Schaffel produced in early 2003.

<snipped>

Yesterday I posted my thoughts about TMZ's methods to obtain information.

I wish more celebrities would sue them. If it's true that the obtain actually confidential material from the sheriff's department it's outrageous, means: One can't even trust the police.

Unlike many others I don't have a too negative opinion about DR. She wanted money, yes, but my impression is that she's straight forward and imo an honest person.

[who_is_it]

I first saw this reported in a UK tabloid.

Grace has said she never said these things and she also said she doesn't even know HOW to pump someone's stomach out.

imo

It wasn't a tabloid but -- to my surprise -- a quality paper, the Times UK.

I've meanwhile read that Grace had allegedly planned an interview for other reasons, then Michael died... and this one was published. I don't know if this information is true.

She herself has debunked the reports of the Times, UK, on the website of her friend Malika Chopra (daughter of Deepak Chopra).
http://www.intent.com/mallikachopra/blog/statement-grace-rwaramba-regarding-michael-jackson

[who_is_it]

Want to add on Grace:

Michael Jackson's secret girlfriend was his children's nanny, Grace Rwaramba

"Michael's personal photographer for the past three years, Ian Barkley, who traveled with Michael extensively, tells The Mirror that Michael's romance with Grace was an open secret amongst family members and staff."
http://www.sawfnews.com/Gossip/58728.aspx

I don't know how credible the photographer is but there were rumors in 2006 MJ and Grace wanted to marry (but she's still legally married to someone else).

----
Furthermore I've read (but don't find the link anymore) that there's allegedly video material of Grace's interview. It was coincidence that she allegedly spoke out to the English media shortly BEFORE his death.

Like posted above: She herself says she never spoke to the Times, UK.
http://www.intent.com/mallikachopra/blog/statement-grace-rwaramba-regarding-michael-jackson

[retiredcop]

Playing devil's advocate here.

Is it possible someone from the Jackson family released those videos?
There has been so much negativity reported about MJ so maybe someone from his family wanted the public to see a more gentle, caring MJ and what a great father he was.

KJ is a devout JW and is not permitted to attend birthday celebrations so it's quite possible MJ made copies for her to watch.

Maybe MJ's personal friends released the videos? Wont be surprised if MJ made copies for them. Here's a video released by Al Malnik

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5fSrvb-3KY

Not saying that's what happened. Just throwing out another possibility the videos may not have been sold but voluntarily released by family/friends to allow the public to see a much more different side of MJ than what the media was reporting.

Probably Joe. Always out to make a buck. Maybe Grace? Out to make a buck too?

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Want to add on Grace:

Michael Jackson's secret girlfriend was his children's nanny, Grace Rwaramba

"Michael's personal photographer for the past three years, Ian Barkley, who traveled with Michael extensively, tells The Mirror that Michael's romance with Grace was an open secret amongst family members and staff."
http://www.sawfnews.com/Gossip/58728.aspx

I don't know how credible the photographer is but there were rumors in 2006 MJ and Grace wanted to marry (but she's still legally married to someone else).

----
Furthermore I've read (but don't find the link anymore) that there's allegedly video material of Grace's interview. It was coincidence that she allegedly spoke out to the English media shortly BEFORE his death.

Like posted above: She herself says she never spoke to the Times, UK.
http://www.intent.com/mallikachopra/blog/statement-grace-rwaramba-regarding-michael-jackson

Please, his secret girlfriend? I don't believe that for a minuet and I think everyone knows why. I won't post why, but still.


in my opinion

[bkwits]

Want to add on Grace:

Michael Jackson's secret girlfriend was his children's nanny, Grace Rwaramba

"Michael's personal photographer for the past three years, Ian Barkley, who traveled with Michael extensively, tells The Mirror that Michael's romance with Grace was an open secret amongst family members and staff."
http://www.sawfnews.com/Gossip/58728.aspx

I don't know how credible the photographer is but there were rumors in 2006 MJ and Grace wanted to marry (but she's still legally married to someone else).

----
Furthermore I've read (but don't find the link anymore) that there's allegedly video material of Grace's interview. It was coincidence that she allegedly spoke out to the English media shortly BEFORE his death.

Like posted above: She herself says she never spoke to the Times, UK.
http://www.intent.com/mallikachopra/blog/statement-grace-rwaramba-regarding-michael-jackson

Some posters here have asserted that MJ was asexual.

[retiredcop]

Some posters here have asserted that MJ was asexual.

Does that mean he likes life like dolls like the one found in his death bed?
I sure noticed two legs of what appeared to be a child sticking out from under a cover on his bed. The legs had no clothes. Very odd. Of course the picture was shown on a tabloid paper held up to the TV camera.


in my opinion only of course

[KatieLady]

Good morning --

I want to know who and why the phones were disconnected? Just another strange event surrounding the time frame of MJs death isn't it? :scared:

I am one of the few ppl that I know that has a land line. Most everyone I know uses their cell phone as their home phone IMO

[retiredcop]

Jacko Custody Deal: Joe Moves Out

When the custody deal for Michael Jackson’s kids is filed tomorrow in Los Angeles Family Court, it will spell the end of Joseph Jackson living at the family’s home.

Part of the deal made by Debbie Rowe, the mother of the two eldest children, is that Joseph is gone for good from the Hayvenhurst Avenue, Encino, compound that he bought in the 1970s.

Rowe—as noted before—will allow Katherine Jackson to be the official guardian of the children for the time being. It was Rowe who suggested that a psychologist be involved in her meetings with the kids, Prince—whom she calls Michael—and Paris, while she gets to know them.

Rowe, who has a degree in psychology, is concerned, her friends say, that the kids not be manipulated or ”spun” after their meetings.

Rowe, they say, hopes to meet with Katherine Jackson immediately this week, and perhaps schedule the first the session with the kids before the end of this week.

http://www.showbiz411.com/michael-jackson-custody-katherine-joe-debbie-rowe


WOW! I hope this is true.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I never saw that and you are the only one I have ever heard say that they did see it.

Very odd.

imo...of course.

Really, you didn't notice that? I guess it's the cop in retiredcop. I notice everything. I also mentioned it before when the picture was first shown.

in my opinion

[CinderL.]

Really, you didn't notice that? I guess it's the cop in retiredcop. I notice everything. I also mentioned it before when the picture was first shown.

in my opinion

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/03/michael-jackson-deathbed-chilling-scene-of-star-s-final-moments-115875-21567266/


Michael Jackson deathbed: Chilling scene of star's final moments

*
*

By Victoria Ward and Ryan Parry 3/08/2009
Michael Jackson (Pic:AP)

A picture has been published showing the bedroom where medics battled to save Michael Jackson.

The photo, which appeared in a Sunday tabloid at the weekend, was taken the day after the singer's death and shows the scene exactly as 999 crews found it when they were called to his home last month.

Jacko was pronounced dead two hours later and the second-floor room - thought to have been used by his personal doctor Conrad Murray - was immediately sealed as police launched an investigation. Nothing was removed.

In a powerful snapshot of his final moments, medical kit used to try to revive him lies discarded.

On the rug at the foot of the bed is a used Ambu-bag - a hand-held device used to resuscitate patients by forcing air through a mask and into the lungs.

More medical equipment is stored away on a wheeled trolley in the corner of the room including alcohol prepara-tion pads, used to clean the skin before injections are given, a roll of surgical tape and a box of latex gloves.

On the bedside table is Jacko's glasses case, a half-finished bottle of orange and some Fiji mineral water.

A string of prayer beads, commonly worn by Jackson, is on the bed.

And what looks like an incontinence pad lies on the mattress where the cover has been thrown back and some blue ribbon believed to have been used as a tourniquet. Medics would have tied it tightly around Jacko's arm to find a vein to inject drugs.

An unopened tube of toothpaste is also on the bed and a doll can be seen poking out from the duvet.

Oxygen tanks are understood to be just out of sight.

It is believed the King of Pop suffered from chronic insomnia and used the strong anaesthetic Propofol to help him sleep, which is always given with oxygen.

But other equipment deemed vital in administering Propofol was absent from the 50-year-old's bedroom - kit that reports suggest could have saved his life.

[GentleBreeze]

Yesterday I posted my thoughts about TMZ's methods to obtain information.

I wish more celebrities would sue them. If it's true that the obtain actually confidential material from the sheriff's department it's outrageous, means: One can't even trust the police.

Unlike many others I don't have a too negative opinion about DR. She wanted money, yes, but my impression is that she's straight forward and imo an honest person.

Actually I have been very impressed with Debbie. I do think she has the best interest of Paris and Prince at heart.

Well what is going to happen if those things that TMZ flooded their site with shortly after his death that was to do with the old not guilty case then more people are going to sue. All of the photos and videos had to come from the disgruntled sheriff's department or the da's office.

imo

[retiredcop]

I am one of the few ppl that I know that has a land line. Most everyone I know uses their cell phone as their home phone IMO

I have wireless headsets and I'm always looking for one. lol Maybe I should hang one around my neck for an emergency.

my opinion only

[CinderL.]

------------

Cop..................do u have a link to the pic? thanks

I think you had to buy the paper. I don't think it is online. The article that I posted above talks about the picture.

From the article:
"An unopened tube of toothpaste is also on the bed and a doll can be seen poking out from the duvet."

It seems there was a doll in the bed.....according to this article.

[retiredcop]

Cops have more experience fabricating and manipulating evidence to better suit their agenda, thats for sure.

imo...of course.

Why are you insulting a profession. There is no need for that. Unbelievable.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Its fact and not intended as an insult to any profession.


Link to your statement of fact?

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Does that mean he likes life like dolls like the one found in his death bed?
I sure noticed two legs of what appeared to be a child sticking out from under a cover on his bed. The legs had no clothes. Very odd. Of course the picture was shown on a tabloid paper held up to the TV camera.


in my opinion only of course

Was the doll the size of a grown adult?

Doll legs sticking out with no clothes on????????????:lol::lol:

I would hate to know that every benign thing I see reminds me instantly of sex or that I find naked doll legs odd.:lol:

[KatieLady]

Its fact and not intended as an insult to any profession.

*sigh* Argue....you know it is your opinion not a fact. Otherwise you would have posted a link...right? :wink:

[KatieLady]

Was the doll the size of a grown adult?

Doll legs sticking out with no clothes on????????????:lol::lol:

I would hate to know that every benign thing I see reminds me instantly of sex or that I find naked doll legs odd.:lol:

I haven't heard anyone that saw the pic say adult size. Paris could have been playing on the bed with her doll and left it there...who knows?? IMO

[retiredcop]

Was the doll the size of a grown adult?

Doll legs sticking out with no clothes on????????????:lol::lol:

I would hate to know that every benign thing I see reminds me instantly of sex or that I find naked doll legs odd.:lol:

The legs looked the size of a child and like a child's legs in appearance. It was creepy. They didn't look like little plastic doll legs.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

I haven't heard anyone that saw the pic say adult size. Paris could have been playing on the bed with her doll and left it there...who knows?? IMO

Absolutely and it was said the doll had a porcelain face and in the photo of her bedroom at Neverland she had a vast collection of dolls including those with porcelain faces.

Once MJ woke up... the children may have been able to go into the room after the doctor told them they could.

imo

[retiredcop]

www.innocenceproject.com

Where in that link is the statement of fact you wrote?

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

The legs looked the size of a child and like a child's legs in appearance. It was creepy. They didn't look like little plastic doll legs.

in my opinion

I have no doubt it was to YOU.:wink:

It was said the doll was porcelain so I imagine the legs ....ummm I mean naked legs were porcelain as well.:smile:

imo

[retiredcop]

Absolutely and it was said the doll had a porcelain face and in the photo of her bedroom at Neverland she had a vast collection of dolls including those with porcelain faces.

Once MJ woke up... the children may have been able to go into the room after the doctor told them they could.

imo

There was a description of the dolls face that was laying on the bed under the covers? I didn't see that. Where was that written?

MJ was in the doctor's bedroom. I thought you posted the children were probably kept out of that room for their protection. :confused:
Wasn't that you who posted that or someone else?

in my opinion

[CinderL.]

Absolutely and it was said the doll had a porcelain face and in the photo of her bedroom at Neverland she had a vast collection of dolls including those with porcelain faces.

Once MJ woke up... the children may have been able to go into the room after the doctor told them they could.

imo

I am not quite sure why this is important but I found this.........
Headline:
"Michael Jackson 'slept with child-sized porcelain doll in dress"
****
“The singer’s bedroom was a mess, with items seemingly thrown about and some 20 handwritten notes stuck on the walls. A porcelain girl doll wearing a dress was found on top of the covers of the bed where he slept.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5929565/Michael-Jackson-slept-with-child-sized-porcelain-doll-in-dress.html

[KatieLady]

We are having a discussion on a discussion board. A better solution would be for you to place us both on ignore.

It is off topic...you know the rules. You need to take it to pm's

[retiredcop]

I have no doubt it was to YOU.:wink:

It was said the doll was porcelain so I imagine the legs ....ummm I mean naked legs were porcelain as well.:smile:

imo

Huh?

You have no doubt what was me? Are you insinuating something here?
If so spit it out.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

It appeared to be a child's doll - not a blow up. JMO

I never said a blow up doll.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

UNDERSTAND THE CAUSE


DNA exonerations have exposed official misconduct at every level and stage of a criminal investigation. This misconduct has included:

deliberate suggestiveness in identification procedures
the withholding of evidence from defense
the deliberate mishandling, mistreatment or destruction of evidence
the coercion of false confessions
the use of unreliable government informants or snitches

Police misconduct was a factor in 37 of the first 74 DNA exonerations.


www.innocenceproject.com

I don't agree, biased link.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Which one is the topic? Childsize doll vs. Lifesize doll.

:shrug: Take your pick.

in my opinion

[ellegna]

MSNBC reported and provided a photo.
I can't make out what that is sticking out of the sheets but that's just me.
Whatever it is appears to have stripes :shrug:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLp9crbCak

[Kathlb]

Personally I don't think that MJ sleeping with one life sized doll or the whole doll family nor wrongly convicted felons have anything to do with his death or what happened to cause it. I think all of that needs to go to PM's. JMHO

[retiredcop]

MSNBC reported and provided a photo.
I can't make out what that is sticking out of the sheets but that's just me.
Whatever it is appears to have stripes :shrug:i

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLp9crbCak

Stripes? The paper I saw and held up was closer and straighter, but those are life like child's legs sticking out from under the covers in what is suppose to be the doctor's bedroom. Those legs look too floppy to be porcelain. Maybe rubber and skin color. It's creepy to me.

in my opinion and I'm sticking to my opinion

[retiredcop]

Huh? Biased? What? What is biased about innocent people imprisoned for the better part of their lives, due to government misconduct, who were later proven innocent?

If you don't agree, what do you feel is the cause of the growing number of wrongful convictions?

Good grief. That innocent project started when DNA became available. It proves nothing about police misconduct. It just proves DNA helps.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Personally I don't think that MJ sleeping with one life sized doll or the whole doll family nor wrongly convicted felons have anything to do with his death or what happened to cause it. I think all of that needs to go to PM's. JMHO

Have you seen some of the topics that come up here on the daily thread?
This isn't that different. Can't have the entire board in pms. This is the topic of this thread. "custody and executor hearings"
I'm not trying to be off topic, just following along.



in my opinion

[Kathlb]

Yep, I've seen other threads, but that doesn't open the door to a free for all subjects in my mind. Two wrongs don't make a right and all of that stuff....

[retiredcop]

Yep, I've seen other threads, but that doesn't open the door to a free for all subjects in my mind. Two wrongs don't make a right and all of that stuff....

I don't see it as a free for all. Somewhere along the line it goes off. Whose to say which post did it? I don't think anyone is trying to go off topic on purpose. We all just follow along. Human nature maybe?

in my opinion

[mrsmcgoo]

It proves that innocent people are in prison, based on the evidence presented in court, which is later proven to be false evidence.


geeze... I'm not saying you are one of the "bad apples", but it can't be denied there are some.

Your posts show that where you see a life size doll, which imo, you insinuate to be a "creepy" sex toy, most everyone else see's nothing odd at all.

Another example could be how an innocent book of collectable art, gifted to MJ by Liz Taylor, is presented in court, to a jury as pornography.

I call that clear manipulation of evidence.

imo...of course.

I think there are honourable and not so honourable people in EVERY profession. That's life.

I must be odd or strange, but I have never heard of an adult male sleeping with a doll. I find that odd.

It could have been placed there by a child, we will never know. I have read numerous times that MJ shielded his children from his drug use, and if that is indeed true, than it wouldn't have been put there by one of the children.

JMO

[retiredcop]

A fact is not an insult. Also, I remember you expressed the same opinion about cops here a couple of days ago. You pointed out that Murray shouldn´t have spoken to the cops, as if this was a terrible mistake - for the same reason. It is unbelievable that you are calling someone else who has the same opinion you do "unbelievable" and "insulting" etc now.

IMO

If you want to talk to the police without an attorney, be my guest. Especially if you are guilty. Much better for law enforcement anyway. No more tips for anyone.

No I don't agree with the original post that ALL cops lie and manipulate evidence. That was insulting and I said so. It is an honorable profession. I will agree there are a few bad apples as in every profession.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

I think there are honourable and not so honourable people in EVERY profession. That's life.

I must be odd or strange, but I have never heard of an adult male sleeping with a doll. I find that odd.

It could have been placed there by a child, we will never know. I have read numerous times that MJ shielded his children from his drug use, and if that is indeed true, than it wouldn't have been put there by one of the children.

JMO

From what I have read this doll always sat on top of the covers in that room. It was probably just pushed aside instead of taking it off the bed.

No biggy to me and certainly not odd especially when MJ was known to place dolls throughout his home.

imo

[crazymama]

Hi,
I've been trying to keep up, see not much new on cause of
death or more on the doctors involved.
Wanna talk about diprivan? Ha.
Anyway I was thinking, he was using the drug and writing
at the same time. Like go under for awhile, then be brought out,
be all high for awhile, write, then go back under. Sound crazy? I just can't see someone go under every night for 6 or 8 hours. Just too unbelievable to do it or have someone willing to do such a thing.
I think he used the sleep excuse as a excuse to get the drug and to
justify it to himself, and not recognize it as cravings and true addiction to that drug, hence it's safe. all my thoughts here

[mrsmcgoo]

From what I have read this doll always sat on top of the covers in that room. It was probably just pushed aside instead of taking it off the bed.

No biggy to me and certainly not odd especially when MJ was known to place dolls throughout his home.

imo


Well that does certainly sound better if the doll had sat on the bed.

I hope you are right.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Well that does certainly sound better if the doll had sat on the bed.

I hope you are right.

JMO

http://celebrity.rightpundits.com/?p=6380

According to Radaronline.com, items found in or around the bed included:

-a strand of prayer beads
-a strewn doll that is said to normally sit prominently on the mattress
-a CD/DVD and alcohol-soaked pads normally used to disinfect the skin before an injection

In confirmation, the Los Angeles County Coroner Lieutenant Fred Corral said last night, “That IS the scene where Michael Jackson died.” The King of Pop was pronounced dead at 2:26PM.

[retiredcop]

http://celebrity.rightpundits.com/?p=6380

According to Radaronline.com, items found in or around the bed included:

-a strand of prayer beads
-a strewn doll that is said to normally sit prominently on the mattress
-a CD/DVD and alcohol-soaked pads normally used to disinfect the skin before an injection

In confirmation, the Los Angeles County Coroner Lieutenant Fred Corral said last night, “That IS the scene where Michael Jackson died.” The King of Pop was pronounced dead at 2:26PM.

Do you think he had one of those in every room.:scared: Just sitting on every bed?

This wasn't his bedroom. I wonder how many he has in there?

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

if someone is trustworthy, and this is what the police should be, you can talk to them without an attorney! If you cannot talk to the police without an attorney, the police can´t be trustworthy. If someone is guilty, they should tell the police what they did. I think it is outrageous if you cannot trust the police.

IIRC you also pointed out that Murray´s lawyer didn´t know the LAPD. I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. I do know that the quality of the police is very different in different places. IMO

Like I said, be my guest. Most people lawyer up now anyway.

I don't remember saying that. Maybe out of context? I have no idea either.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

Do you think he had one of those in every room.:scared: Just sitting on every bed?

This wasn't his bedroom. I wonder how many he has in there?

in my opinion

I would think he would have them placed all through his home. His kids had dolls, he had dolls so it is common that dolls would be displayed and many people display dolls in bedrooms throughout their homes.

imo

[daniel green]

Countless people over the years have commented on Grace's deep relationship with the children.

You can probably google and come up with some of their names.

imo

I tired last night, for a long time. Never could come up with anything. Only what she told The Sunday Times.

[daniel green]

It wasn't a tabloid but -- to my surprise -- a quality paper, the Times UK.

I've meanwhile read that Grace had allegedly planned an interview for other reasons, then Michael died... and this one was published. I don't know if this information is true.

She herself has debunked the reports of the Times, UK, on the website of her friend Malika Chopra (daughter of Deepak Chopra).
http://www.intent.com/mallikachopra/blog/statement-grace-rwaramba-regarding-michael-jackson

She only denied the stomach pumping--that she did not know how to do it. (notice not that he had it done...) Not anything else in the interview. The Times stood by their reporting, and it is a newspaper of record.

[daniel green]

Want to add on Grace:

[B]Michael Jackson's secret girlfriend was his children's nanny, Grace Rwaramba
snipped

Right. :rolleyes: I would not put a whole lot of stock, time or weight on that.

[daniel green]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/08/03/michael-jackson-deathbed-chilling-scene-of-star-s-final-moments-115875-21567266/


Michael Jackson deathbed: Chilling scene of star's final moments

*
*

By Victoria Ward and Ryan Parry 3/08/2009
Michael Jackson (Pic:AP)

A picture has been published showing the bedroom where medics battled to save Michael Jackson.

The photo, which appeared in a Sunday tabloid at the weekend, was taken the day after the singer's death and shows the scene exactly as 999 crews found it when they were called to his home last month.

Jacko was pronounced dead two hours later and the second-floor room - thought to have been used by his personal doctor Conrad Murray - was immediately sealed as police launched an investigation. Nothing was removed.

In a powerful snapshot of his final moments, medical kit used to try to revive him lies discarded.

On the rug at the foot of the bed is a used Ambu-bag - a hand-held device used to resuscitate patients by forcing air through a mask and into the lungs.

More medical equipment is stored away on a wheeled trolley in the corner of the room including alcohol prepara-tion pads, used to clean the skin before injections are given, a roll of surgical tape and a box of latex gloves.

On the bedside table is Jacko's glasses case, a half-finished bottle of orange and some Fiji mineral water.

A string of prayer beads, commonly worn by Jackson, is on the bed.

And what looks like an incontinence pad lies on the mattress where the cover has been thrown back and some blue ribbon believed to have been used as a tourniquet. Medics would have tied it tightly around Jacko's arm to find a vein to inject drugs.

An unopened tube of toothpaste is also on the bed and a doll can be seen poking out from the duvet.

Oxygen tanks are understood to be just out of sight.

It is believed the King of Pop suffered from chronic insomnia and used the strong anaesthetic Propofol to help him sleep, which is always given with oxygen.

But other equipment deemed vital in administering Propofol was absent from the 50-year-old's bedroom - kit that reports suggest could have saved his life.

That's what DD talked about last night on ET. But she did say the glass case could have belong to Murray--as both he and MJ used glasses.

[daniel green]

The large doll in the death bed picture is on the top right corner, as you look at it, partially covered by the covers.

[daniel green]

Where is this picture? I haven't seen a link to it. Do you have one?

It's been posted above and it's on the MSNBC video posted above as well.

[daniel green]

According to a psychiatrist's report quoted by The Sun newspaper, the singer's behaviour was increasingly erratic, with his mood swinging from an "almost manic" excitement about the tour to silence and staring into space. A source close to the investigation into his death reportedly told the paper that Jackson was "clearly not mentally or physically equipped to cope" with the 50-night performance schedule at the O2 Arena. '"Michael was always adamant the show must go on - to the point where he was obsessed with the idea he would be 'killed' if he couldn't go on stage," The Sun quoted the source as saying. "He had been backed into a corner and was falling apart under the strain."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5970307/Michael-Jackson-showing-signs-of-cracking-up-before-he-died.html

[daniel green]

Where is this picture? I haven't seen a link to it. Do you have one?

DD showed it and talked about it on ET last night.

I have just searched and found some. Here is one. But the MSNBC vid someone posted upthread shows it all.

http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/Michael-Jackson-Deathbed-Photo-Released.aspx

[daniel green]

British paper News of the World has published photos of the the final tableau in Jackson's Bel Air rental home, allegedly taken June 26 by a family insider after the space was deemed a possible crime scene by investigators. The paper confirmed a laundry list of items shown in the pics, all of which they claim were confirmed by investigators. Among the items shown:

-Ambu-Pump Air Bag (to facilitate CPR then assist breathing) and its instruction manual.
-A Makeshift Tourniquet, which appears to be a string of fabric believed to have assisted fine tying off Jackson.
-Incontinence Pads

These items, strewn in different locations, could imply a frantic struggle to revive the singer.Other items found in and around the bed: a strand of prayer beads, a strewn doll that is said to normally sit prominently on the mattress, a CD/DVD and alcohol-soaked pads normally used to disinfect the skin before an injection.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/08/details-michael-jackson%E2%80%99s-deathbed-scene-revealed

[ellegna]

I tired last night, for a long time. Never could come up with anything. Only what she told The Sunday Times.

Doesn't mention any names but I found this on Time's site:

An enigmatic woman in Michael Jackson's inner circle is re-emerging just as the battle over the guardianship and paternity of his kids continues. Grace Rwaramba — the Rwandan nanny of Prince Michael I, 12; Paris Michael Katherine, 11; and Prince Michael II (known as Blanket), 7 — is the woman Jackson insiders describe as the most maternal personality the children have known.

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1911880,00.html

[daniel green]

Doesn't mention any names but I found this on Time's site:

snipped

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1911880,00.html

Thank you. I did read that last night.

[retiredcop]

#475 08-04-2009, 08:56 AM
Arguendo
Registered User

Cops have more experience fabricating and manipulating evidence to better suit their agenda, thats for sure.

imo...of course


Where in this post do you see the word "ALL"?

The exact word no. You sure meant all, in my opinion, when you wrote "cops". You didn't write "some cops". You took in the entire profession by writing cops. That is why I wrote ALL. You should be much clearer in exactly what you mean.

in my opinion

[CinderL.]

I think there are honourable and not so honourable people in EVERY profession. That's life.

I must be odd or strange, but I have never heard of an adult male sleeping with a doll. I find that odd.

It could have been placed there by a child, we will never know. I have read numerous times that MJ shielded his children from his drug use, and if that is indeed true, than it wouldn't have been put there by one of the children.

JMO

Mrsmcgoo, I too find it odd. I found the pictures of Neverland with all of the dolls around to be strange. But, I also found MJ to be strange.

[mrsmcgoo]

Mrsmcgoo, I too find it odd. I found the pictures of Neverland with all of the dolls around to be strange. But, I also found MJ to be strange.

:thumbsup: Good! I didn't want to be the only strange one around here! lol

Yes, it gave me the creeps seeing those dolls around the house. They looked scary to me, horror movie scary!

JMO

[retiredcop]

Mrsmcgoo, I too find it odd. I found the pictures of Neverland with all of the dolls around to be strange. But, I also found MJ to be strange.

I could be very wrong in what I'm thinking. I am a very suspicious person. I can dial it down to he has an obsession with having dolls around. He had many at Neverland. He was found dead in a bed with a doll. Of all things for a grown man to be obsessed with having around or even collecting, I find it odd to be dolls. And then there was Bubbles.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

:thumbsup: Good! I didn't want to be the only strange one around here! lol

Yes, it gave me the creeps seeing those dolls around the house. They looked scary to me, horror movie scary!

JMO

You were never alone there was always me. Maybe I don't count. *sniff*

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I then went on to say this:

geeze... I'm not saying you are one of the "bad apples", but it can't be denied there are some.


See what I mean about manipulating the evidence to fit an agenda.

Your posts are misleading and done for the purpose of painting me in a false light.

imo...of course.

Yes, that was later and I do agree with there being some bad apples. Since you dialed back to some I agree.

I sent you a pm saying I had an answer to your post, but was afraid to answer at the time with all the complaints from posters of us being off topic. You said you had to go to work and would answer me later. You never did.

[retiredcop]

I saw that too, you are right. Same thing with the doll(s). It´s a pattern. imo

That is not true!!!!!!! Not at all!!!!!!! Read what I just posted. You just don't like me. *sniff*

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I saw that too, you are right. Same thing with the doll(s). It´s a pattern. imo

Oh, and this thread is not about me. Please refrain from making it so.

in my opinion

[legalmania]

Doesn't mention any names but I found this on Time's site:

An enigmatic woman in Michael Jackson's inner circle is re-emerging just as the battle over the guardianship and paternity of his kids continues. Grace Rwaramba — the Rwandan nanny of Prince Michael I, 12; Paris Michael Katherine, 11; and Prince Michael II (known as Blanket), 7 — is the woman Jackson insiders describe as the most maternal personality the children have known.

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1911880,00.html

Maybe Katherine will hire Grace to help out, I think it would be great for the kids. Somebody the kids could talk about their dad with, Grace probably can share more stories than most of the family can.

[GentleBreeze]

Maybe Katherine will hire Grace to help out, I think it would be great for the kids. Somebody the kids could talk about their dad with, Grace probably can share more stories than most of the family can.

Grace is with Katherine and the children and remains with them.

She and Rebbie have been seen with the children since they lost their father.

imo

[legalmania]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5970307/Michael-Jackson-showing-signs-of-cracking-up-before-he-died.html

Boy they do come out of the woodwork when someone dies. Where were all these people when he was out of the country? Not a word about him. Now they know he's dead and can't defend himself they figure they might as well ride on his coat tails and pick up a few thousand.

[legalmania]

Grace is with Katherine and the children and remains with them.

She and Rebbie have been seen with the children since they lost their father.

imo

Oh I'm so glad to hear that, I'm glad they are putting the childrens best interest first as it should be. Even DR came through, of course not cheep, but she did the right thing.

[Nic99]

It's been posted above and it's on the MSNBC video posted above as well.

I'm almost wishing I had bought a copy of the News of The World this week. I see they are selling it on ebay at a price you could have bought it for anyway:rolleyes:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MICHAEL-JACKSON-DEATHBED-PICS-NEWS-OF-THE-WORLD_W0QQitemZ280380314031QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_M usic_Music_Memorabilia_LE?hash=item4147f811af&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

[daniel green]

Mrsmcgoo, I too find it odd. I found the pictures of Neverland with all of the dolls around to be strange. But, I also found MJ to be strange.

I thought that was an actual butler in the vid posted last night and thuoght it was creepy to have him standing there and then realized it was a life-sized statue of some sort dressed like a butler, and thought that was even creepier.

[legalmania]

I'm almost wishing I had bought a copy of the News of The World this week. I see they are selling it on ebay at a price you could have bought it for anyway:rolleyes:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MICHAEL-JACKSON-DEATHBED-PICS-NEWS-OF-THE-WORLD_W0QQitemZ280380314031QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_M usic_Music_Memorabilia_LE?hash=item4147f811af&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

At least you realize it would have been a waste of time Nic. Unless you charge $20 for shipping. Oh that's right you don't use dollars. I doubt that's the room anyway. It looks staged.

[Nic99]

At least you realize it would have been a waste of time Nic. Unless you charge $20 for shipping. Oh that's right you don't use dollars. I doubt that's the room anyway. It looks staged.

Nah, I prefer a lie-in on a Sunday. Would have had to put a bag over my head if I walked out with the NOTW.

If it is staged then they will be sued for millions I am sure and that would really be sick (not the suing for millions BTW!).

[legalmania]

I thought that was an actual butler in the vid posted last night and thuoght it was creepy to have him standing there and then realized it was a life-sized statue of some sort dressed like a butler, and thought that was even creepier.

He would have him holding a tray of cookies for the children. It's cheaper and less cruel then having a real guy standing there as a lot of rich people do.

[legalmania]

Nah, I prefer a lie-in on a Sunday. Would have had to put a bag over my head if I walked out with the NOTW.

If it is staged then they will be sued for millions I am sure and that would really be sick (not the suing for millions BTW!).

I think it looks to neat for all the chaotic behavior that was going on, the pillows should be on the floor, the brown thing should be shoved out of the way, just looks like tight quarters to do c.p.r. and have IV and oxygen. I would have to read the article because sometimes the headline doesn't match the article. I don't think there is grounds to sue, unless they showed his body there.

[GentleBreeze]

Mrsmcgoo, I too find it odd. I found the pictures of Neverland with all of the dolls around to be strange. But, I also found MJ to be strange.

You find it odd at Neverland that there are dolls, statutes, mannequins?

Why? Neverland was patterned after Peter Pan where children never grow up. It is supposed to represent all the "children" in Neverland. Neverland was a fantasy play land where children could play with dolls, go on amusement rides,ride horses, see the animals, play on the 2800 acres of Neverland and do so all among the dolls/statues who represented so many of them from all across the world or vintage dolls who were child stars.

I don't find them strange at all. It would be very strange if Neverland had no dolls. Not many children have the opportunity to see or have life sized Supermans, Darth Vadars or a Nintendo Virtual game boy but Neverland was special so it had so many things to play with that only most children could just dream about. So it had a theme that made it instantly known that Neverland was a wonderful place for children just like Disney World promotes.

I find MJ an endearing man/child who was so comfortable and happy as he ran and played among the children who came there to get away to that fantasy land where one could be a child again and if they were still a child at the time they could enjoy that they were.

Gregory Peck loved to come to Neverland to enjoy his child experiences again when he was a young boy. He came often and he loved Neverland. He said it made him feel like a kid again and that was the whole purpose.

imo

[Nic99]

I think it looks to neat for all the chaotic behavior that was going on, the pillows should be on the floor, the brown thing should be shoved out of the way, just looks like tight quarters to do c.p.r. and have IV and oxygen. I would have to read the article because sometimes the headline doesn't match the article. I don't think there is grounds to sue, unless they showed his body there.

You're making me wish I bought it now:scared: I wish I had just so I could report back to posters on here. I must admit though, if it is staged, I still believe that they could be sued, with or without him there - it would just be too much imo, to do something so dreadful. They are stating it is MJ's deathbed after all and that would be totally wrong. I still think its in bad taste anyway tbh, but that does not surprise me considering the source imo.

[legalmania]

You find it odd at Neverland that there are dolls, statutes, mannequins?

Why? Neverland was patterned after Peter Pan where children never grow up. It is supposed to represent all the "children" in Neverland. Neverland was a fantasy play land where children could play with dolls, go on amusement rides,ride horses, see the animals, play on the 2800 acres of Neverland and do so all among the dolls/statues who represented so many of them from all across the world or vintage dolls who were child stars.

I don't find them strange at all. It would be very strange if Neverland had no dolls. Not many children have the opportunity to see or have life sized Supermans, Darth Vadars or a Nintendo Virtual game boy but Neverland was special so it had so many things to play with that only most children could just dream about. So it had a theme that made it instantly known that Neverland was a wonderful place for children just like Disney World promotes.

I find MJ an endearing man/child who was so comfortable and happy as he ran and played among the children who came there to get away to that fantasy land where one could be a child again and if they were still a child at the time they could enjoy that they were.

Gregory Peck loved to come to Neverland to enjoy his child experiences again when he was a young boy. He came often and he loved Neverland. He said it made him feel like a kid again and that was the whole purpose.

imo

I guess a lot of people forget Neverland wasn't just for healthy kids. He brought kids there who were very sick or dying. That might be the last thing they ever saw. He gave the kids dolls and candy it was a beautiful gift, for the children. What is the difference between Disney and Neverland? Neverland was free.

[legalmania]

You're making me wish I bought it now:scared: I wish I had just so I could report back to posters on here. I must admit though, if it is staged, I still believe that they could be sued, with or without him there - it would just be too much imo, to do something so dreadful. They are stating it is MJ's deathbed after all and that would be totally wrong. I still think its in bad taste anyway tbh, but that does not surprise me considering the source imo.

By deathbed what did they mean though, did he go there to get his treatments that could have killed him or did he die in that bed? Tabloids and bad taste go together it rolls off the tongue.

[legalmania]

I need to get back to work , talk later:seeya: A song for MJ

----------------
Now playing: Michael Jackson - Ben (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/michael_jackson/track/ben)
via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[GentleBreeze]

By deathbed what did they mean though, did he go there to get his treatments that could have killed him or did he die in that bed? Tabloids and bad taste go together it rolls off the tongue.

I believe what they are saying this is how the room looked a day after he died there. They do seem to stress that he was already dead in Murray's bed before EMTs arrived.

Of course if one looks at the tabloid title they may think that MJ is going to be laying in the bed. They do try to twist the wording to get the most response.

I find it so tasteless and so unnecessary.

imo

[Nic99]

By deathbed what did they mean though, did he go there to get his treatments that could have killed him or did he die in that bed? Tabloids and bad taste go together it rolls off the tongue.

Well, according to this link from the NOTW, it is was where MJ died. I quote them below, as per link at the end:

Start quote:
But last night Los Angeles County Coroner Lieutenant Fred Corral confirmed to us: "That IS the scene where Michael Jackson died."

It is pictured EXACTLY as detectives found it after paramedics rushed Jacko to the UCLA Medical Center where he was officially pronounced dead at 2.26pm.

Nothing has been touched or moved from the second-floor bedroom, thought to be used by Dr Murray to store medical supplies.

The room - suprisingly tidy after such drama - was sealed off and deemed a potential murder scene by the authorities.
End Quote


http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/431514/Michael-Jacksons-deathbed-photo.html

imo

[Roxxanne]

Nice post, Ms. Breeze! And since he brought sick children from all over the world to Neverland, it was all handicapped equipped. I can't think of another single human who, through goodness of heart, made a difference in the lives of those less fortunate, to the extent that MJ did.

Legalmania...jinx

imo...of course.

I just have to come out of lurking and say that it is a shame that some people only see the "creepy" and "odd" where Michael is concerned.
He's dead and still it goes on. My Opinion Only.

[on board!]

Please, his secret girlfriend? I don't believe that for a minuet and I think everyone knows why. I won't post why, but still.

in my opinion

I believe Michael was heterosexual.

Dancing is body language. Dance moves always speak volumes how physical contact with a person feels. To be his girlfriend must have been hot.
IMO

[flipflop]

Joe Jackson -- I Won't Be There ... Much

Posted Aug 4th 2009 5:54PM by TMZ Staff

We just got a declaration from Joe Jackson, filed with the court, and Joe makes it clear -- he supported Michael Jackson's decision to make his wife Katherine the guardian of Michael's 3 kids .. and Joe makes it clear he will keep his distance.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/04/joe-jackson-katherine-jackson-michael-jackson-custody-kids/

[Nic99]

I just have to come out of lurking and say that it is a shame that some people only see the "creepy" and "odd" where Michael is concerned.
He's dead and still it goes on. My Opinion Only.

Yes I agree, but there are many that don't agree that he is creepy or odd in anyway and appreciate his music and him as a caring person imo. I do think people have to allow for his upbringing, that wasn't normal and I am grateful for his music and dance.

[Dunlurken]

Dr. Murray is in deep doo-doo. If Michael actually died in Murray's room. Good Lord. JMO. :ohmy:

[Nic99]

Joe Jackson -- I Won't Be There ... Much

Posted Aug 4th 2009 5:54PM by TMZ Staff

We just got a declaration from Joe Jackson, filed with the court, and Joe makes it clear -- he supported Michael Jackson's decision to make his wife Katherine the guardian of Michael's 3 kids .. and Joe makes it clear he will keep his distance.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/04/joe-jackson-katherine-jackson-michael-jackson-custody-kids/

Well, lets hope so. Who knows....

[flipflop]

Well, lets hope so. Who knows....



Yeah, I know. But they live in separate houses so maybe it's true.

[GentleBreeze]

Yes I agree, but there are many that don't agree that he is creepy or odd in anyway and appreciate his music and him as a caring person imo. I do think people have to allow for his upbringing, that wasn't normal and I am grateful for his music and dance.

I really don't think his collectibles are odd. Most of them are whimsical. I am sure even some of us may have something someone would think is strange in our own home. Our son is married with two children but he is a vast collector of movies and transformers. Heck if someone came in and did a history search on my computer and found the subjects I have looked up since being on crime message board for years, I am sure they would look at me like this>>>>>:ohmy::ohmy::w00t:

I would imagine that all millionaires who have so much more access to funds have different from the norm things in their homes. If I had that kind of money I would want unique items and many will have them because they are conversation pieces. But I just think MJ loved toys and anything else that reminded him of a childhood. He even owns Johnny Depp's Edward Scissorhands and a lot of the paintings were sent to him from all over the world.

Elvis liked to collect big and bold specially made jewelry and loved to collect firearms and cars galore. lol

Rich people just don't have the limits put on them as the average citizen does. If they see something they like they just get it.

imo

[Nic99]

I really don't think his collectibles are odd. Most of them are whimsical. I am sure even some of us may have something someone would think is strange in our own home. Our son is married with two children but he is a vast collector of movies and transformers. Heck if someone came in and did a history search on my computer and found the subjects I have looked up since being on crime message board for years, I am sure they would look at me like this>>>>>:ohmy::ohmy::w00t:

I would imagine that all millionaires who have so much more access to funds have different from the norm things in their homes. If I had that kind of money I would want unique items and many will have them because they are conversation pieces. But I just think MJ loved toys and anything else that reminded him of a childhood. He even owns Johnny Depp's Edward Scissorhands and a lot of the paintings were sent to him from all over the world.

Elvis liked to collect big and bold specially made jewelry and loved to collect firearms and cars galore. lol

Rich people just don't have the limits put on them as the average citizen does. If they see something they like they just get it.

imo

LOL, yes I agree and rich people do have much more access to those whimsical items that we would never be able to purchase.

I think I may be on death row if anyone got hold of my computer lol...

[CinderL.]

You find it odd at Neverland that there are dolls, statutes, mannequins?

Why? Neverland was patterned after Peter Pan where children never grow up. It is supposed to represent all the "children" in Neverland. Neverland was a fantasy play land where children could play with dolls, go on amusement rides,ride horses, see the animals, play on the 2800 acres of Neverland and do so all among the dolls/statues who represented so many of them from all across the world or vintage dolls who were child stars.

I don't find them strange at all. It would be very strange if Neverland had no dolls. Not many children have the opportunity to see or have life sized Supermans, Darth Vadars or a Nintendo Virtual game boy but Neverland was special so it had so many things to play with that only most children could just dream about. So it had a theme that made it instantly known that Neverland was a wonderful place for children just like Disney World promotes.

I find MJ an endearing man/child who was so comfortable and happy as he ran and played among the children who came there to get away to that fantasy land where one could be a child again and if they were still a child at the time they could enjoy that they were.

Gregory Peck loved to come to Neverland to enjoy his child experiences again when he was a young boy. He came often and he loved Neverland. He said it made him feel like a kid again and that was the whole purpose.

imo

It does look like a wonderful fun place. And no, I don't find any of the memorabilia strange. I did find the mannequins posed around the house to be strange. But, each to his own I guess.

[flipflop]

I heard it.

It never sounded spontanious to me, I found it rather forced.

I heard one of the kids mention them being in a movie or something about a movie. Then I heard MJ ask, I thought, are you going to remember your lines. Then it sounded like I heard Prince say ..I am going to do this in the movie....and he put his hand on his hip and started waving it back and forth like a wing.

[GentleBreeze]

I heard one of the kids mention them being in a movie or something about a movie. Then I heard MJ ask, I thought, are you going to remember your lines. Then it sounded like I heard Prince say ..I am going to do this in the movie....and he put his hand on his hip and started waving it back and forth like a wing.

That is what I heard.

But of course MJ staged this I am sure some will try to infer.

Hmmm, staged yet this was a private moment with his children and it was never released until now.:confused:

LOL I thought Prince and Paris were trying to do the wiggle.:smile: So cute.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I think its something we ALL need to hear. I'm sure his kids learned to say it, when they heard him say it to them so often. Parents and kids saying I love you to each other is a good thing, not a bad thing.

imo...of course.

Exactly.:wink: Just like our children growing up told us often because we made sure we always told them how much we loved them. Don't think there is a quota yet stating someone can only tell someone they love someone just so many times a day. I sure hope not.lol

And I think MJs children loved him with every ounce of their precious hearts. I am glad they did because it is obvious just by looking at him and his children interact how much he loved them.

imo

[flipflop]

That is what I heard.

But of course MJ staged this I am sure some will try to infer.

Hmmm, staged yet this was a private moment with his children and it was never released until now.:confused:

LOL I thought Prince and Paris were trying to do the wiggle.:smile: So cute.

imo


I think Paris said something after her daddy asked if she would remember her lines but I don't remember what it was now. I wish I had Tivo so I could replay it.

[GentleBreeze]

I thought it was Dr. Murray's bedroom?

It wasn't his bedroom as if he had ownership of it. lol

He was staying in that bedroom that always had this doll displayed on the bed.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I think Paris said something after her daddy asked if she would remember her lines but I don't remember what it was now. I wish I had Tivo so I could replay it.

Yes, she did say something after he ask her would she remember her lines..but a lot of it is hard to hear but it sure is precious.

imo

[Mairi II]

I just watched the sinister video ~eye roll~ ... where MJ asks Prince about saying his lines after Prince said he was going to be in movies (something to that effect). There was nothing there to pick apart! It was a simple question on MJ's part to Prince's declaration of being in movies! Sheesh! (I thought it was Prince, although peeps are saying above that it was Paris.)

I'll admit that Paris' memorial "speech" seems, now, to haven't been very spontaneous. Yet they were her words, whether they were spoken for the first time at the memorial or not. Who cares. She CLEARLY loved MJ with all her heart. He was her daddy. For anyone to attempt to diminish the depth of her feeling for her daddy, like they were just well-rehearsed lines - well, I think it's despicable.

As an aside, she has to be one of the prettiest little girls I've ever seen. Absolutely darling.

[GentleBreeze]

That's sweet...but I have great difficulty reconciling that with his extensive porn collection.

Listen, please don't get this board shutdown. I could debate you forever about that but it is totally off topic.

I am no longer going to reply and for some reason I find you nic sort of offensive.:sad: So please pick someone else to bait.

imo

[Mairi II]

That thing was so staged it was rediculous. Who puts clipon mics on a child unless they are trying to do a video that would eventually be in the media. The mics on todays video cameras are good enough to record a child. This was no impromptu video. It was made soley to make Michael Jackson look like a real father which he wasn't. After the hanging of "Blanket" over the balcony, I lost all confidence that MJ was of reasonable mind much less body. The "Hero Worship" of Michael Jackson makes me want to barf

Or it could have been done to simply memorialize events. ~shrugs~ I don't consider family photos or videos of kids lined up in front of a Christmas tree, singing carols, as impromptu, either - yet they mean something to the family. I guess it gets down to a person's personal feelings about MJ.

[CinderL.]

It wasn't his bedroom as if he had ownership of it. lol

He was staying in that bedroom that always had this doll displayed on the bed.

imo

I am curious where you read that the was always on that bed???

[GentleBreeze]

That thing was so staged it was rediculous. Who puts clipon mics on a child unless they are trying to do a video that would eventually be in the media. The mics on todays video cameras are good enough to record a child. This was no impromptu video. It was made soley to make Michael Jackson look like a real father which he wasn't. After the hanging of "Blanket" over the balcony, I lost all confidence that MJ was of reasonable mind much less body. The "Hero Worship" of Michael Jackson makes me want to barf

People who are in the music and video business.

I loved the entire video. I hope the family releases more of them.

Whether you believe it was staged doesn't have anything to do with my opinion. You have a right to believe as you wish and it doesn't matter to me that is for sure.

This was a private video unseen for years and years. He did not make this clip of his children as a PR move. It was never seen until now.

Do you mean the ones here that sees that he loved his children dearly or the countless of other people that really knew the children and MJ who have constantly said the same thing and that MJ was a wonderful father?:shrug:

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I am curious where you read that the was always on that bed???

Gosh Cinder............I put up the link earlier today. It is somewhere in this thread.

I will try to locate it again but I have to go eat dinner now.

BBL

[CinderL.]

Gosh Cinder............I put up the link earlier today. It is somewhere in this thread.

I will try to locate it again but I have to go eat dinner now.

BBL

Thanks, but it doesn't matter. Just wondering. Did he have dolls on all the beds in the house?

[flipflop]

Thanks, but it doesn't matter. Just wondering. Did he have dolls on all the beds in the house?


Here it is I think.


http://celebrity.rightpundits.com/?p=6380

According to Radaronline.com, items found in or around the bed included:

-a strand of prayer beads
-a strewn doll that is said to normally sit prominently on the mattress
-a CD/DVD and alcohol-soaked pads normally used to disinfect the skin before an injection

In confirmation, the Los Angeles County Coroner Lieutenant Fred Corral said last night, “That IS the scene where Michael Jackson died.” The King of Pop was pronounced dead at 2:26PM.

[aproudmom]

Hi hope everyone has had a wonderful day..I seen Dr. K ended up sending a lawyer to the hearing..still in awe over that one..:rolleyes:

[CinderL.]

Here it is I think.


http://celebrity.rightpundits.com/?p=6380

According to Radaronline.com, items found in or around the bed included:

-a strand of prayer beads
-a strewn doll that is said to normally sit prominently on the mattress
-a CD/DVD and alcohol-soaked pads normally used to disinfect the skin before an injection

In confirmation, the Los Angeles County Coroner Lieutenant Fred Corral said last night, “That IS the scene where Michael Jackson died.” The King of Pop was pronounced dead at 2:26PM.

thanks. :smile:

[Mairi II]

Here it is I think.


http://celebrity.rightpundits.com/?p=6380

According to Radaronline.com, items found in or around the bed included:

-a strand of prayer beads
-a strewn doll that is said to normally sit prominently on the mattress
-a CD/DVD and alcohol-soaked pads normally used to disinfect the skin before an injection

In confirmation, the Los Angeles County Coroner Lieutenant Fred Corral said last night, “That IS the scene where Michael Jackson died.” The King of Pop was pronounced dead at 2:26PM.

{bolding added}

...just gives me the chills. Was it confirmed whether or not this was Murray's room? I guess that wouldn't surprise me, though. If it's true, I liken it to a "doctor's office" where Michael went for "treatment." It's not like Murray would be using the bed - he was supposed to have been awake to be tending to MJ while under.

[CinderL.]

I think I read in People that Omar B. is now living in the Encino house. Is that right? And that Remmie is living there to help with the children. Seems that house is really filling up. Is it that big?

[aproudmom]

Well, according to this link from the NOTW, it is was where MJ died. I quote them below, as per link at the end:

Start quote:
But last night Los Angeles County Coroner Lieutenant Fred Corral confirmed to us: "That IS the scene where Michael Jackson died."

It is pictured EXACTLY as detectives found it after paramedics rushed Jacko to the UCLA Medical Center where he was officially pronounced dead at 2.26pm.

Nothing has been touched or moved from the second-floor bedroom, thought to be used by Dr Murray to store medical supplies.

The room - suprisingly tidy after such drama - was sealed off and deemed a potential murder scene by the authorities.
End Quote


http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/431514/Michael-Jacksons-deathbed-photo.html

imo

was it after the family and employees had been in there removing stuff or before? or do we even know..

[Mairi II]

Do you happen to have a link to any report of an extensive porn collection, because you surely can't be refering to the collectable art book, given to him by Liz Taylor.

I shall await the link. TIA

And, quite frankly, MJ was single. I don't know why it would surprise anyone to find porn - or be a marker of a dark side. Heck, it might surprise many to find their husbands harbor porn themselves. It wouldn't me. ~shrugs~ Ain't no big thing.

[aproudmom]

I think I read in People that Omar B. is now living in the Encino house. Is that right? And that Remmie is living there to help with the children. Seems that house is really filling up. Is it that big?

I did also Cinder just do not know where I read or heard it..

[ellegna]

{bolding added}

...just gives me the chills. Was it confirmed whether or not this was Murray's room? I guess that wouldn't surprise me, though. If it's true, I liken it to a "doctor's office" where Michael went for "treatment." It's not like Murray would be using the bed - he was supposed to have been awake to be tending to MJ while under.

Don't know who's room it was but here is MSNBC reporting and providing photo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLp9crbCak

Now the bedroom in this video looks more like what MJ's room would look like. It's at the end of the clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG8NEOxcQgE

[aproudmom]

Do you happen to have a link to any report of an extensive porn collection, because you surely can't be refering to the collectable art book, given to him by Liz Taylor. I'm not talking about reports of the allegations for which he was exonerated, I'm asking for a link to an unrelated report of porn.

I shall await the link. TIA

don't hold your breathe Arguendo don't want to lose a poster:wink:

was it not that Cory Feldman that said he had shown him some book or something? do not remember him saying porn..heck could have been some of those sexy ancient statues for all we know..lol

[Mairi II]

Don't know who's room it was but here is MSNBC reporting and providing photo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLp9crbCak

Now the bedroom in this video looks more like what MJ's room would look like. It's at the end of the clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG8NEOxcQgE

Thank you, Ellegna! Definitely two different rooms and the 2nd one would make more sense to be MJ's than the first.

[VC2]

frank DiLeo is on LKL now

[Mairi II]

Was there anything interesting on Nancy Grace tonight regarding MJ?

[retiredcop]

Thank you, Ellegna! Definitely two different rooms and the 2nd one would make more sense to be MJ's than the first.

The second one looks more like a guest room. I don't think that's Mr Jackson's bedroom. There are no dolls in there.

in my opinion

[who_is_it]

Michael Jackson Movie Coming Soon

"New court documents in the Michael Jackson estate case reveal Columbia Pictures scored the footage of Michael Jackson's rehearsals and preparations for his London concerts ... but the studio is paying a hefty price.

Columbia will create a movie from the footage. Under the terms of the deal, the Jackson estate will get 90% of the profits and and AEG will get the remaining 10%.

Columbia will guarantee a minimum of $60 million in return for the rights."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/04/michael-jackson-columbia-pictures-aeg-estate-rehearsal%20footage/

I don't understand the news. Columbia pays $60 million, AEG gets 10% of the profits and the estate 90%.... -- and what does Columbia get? 0%? :confused:

[Mairi II]

The second one looks more like a guest room. I don't think that's Mr Jackson bedroom. There are no dolls in there.

in my opinion

Didn't you think the 2nd one looked more fancy than the 1st? Maybe that's not a good indication. It could be, too, that those are advertising pictures of the house and the bedrooms are not personalized yet. Don't know, though.

[aproudmom]

Don't know who's room it was but here is MSNBC reporting and providing photo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLp9crbCak

Now the bedroom in this video looks more like what MJ's room would look like. It's at the end of the clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG8NEOxcQgE

so which one is his..IIRC the second one was one that was taken awhile back when the house was up for sale..could even be the same room just not the actual picture of how it looked when he moved in..did anyone else see that interview from a couple years ago IIRC I know I am not losing it...lol..or hope not..

[daniel green]

snipped I can't think of another single human who, through goodness of heart, made a difference in the lives of those less fortunate, to the extent that MJ did.

.

Wow. Really? :confused:

[GentleBreeze]

Thank you, Ellegna! Definitely two different rooms and the 2nd one would make more sense to be MJ's than the first.

Yes, it seems they have the printed words going on the wrong bedroom.

That looks very much like it IS MJs bedroom in the second video but that is not where he died. You can tell the other room that NOTW is saying was the deathbed is a smaller bedroom.

And if he had stayed in Murray's bedroom then his own room would be neat because the maids would have cleaned it since the last time he slept in his room.

Sure is a beautiful bedroom though.

imo

[who_is_it]

Akon Remembers His 'Cool, Funny' Friend Michael Jackson

[/URL]"Akon has recorded tracks with some of the biggest and brightest stars in music. But there's one star who was bigger and brighter than all the rest: Michael Jackson."
(...)
"It was the craziest thing, because we sat down, we talked about Africa, we talked about my foundation (...)[URL="http://www.konfidence.org/"], (http://www.mtv.com/music/artist/akon/artist.jhtml) we talked about the music, we talked about girls. We had a great, incredible time that day," he continued. "He was extremely funny, he told jokes, and he liked to have fun."

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1617492/20090803/akon.jhtml

[daniel green]

It does look like a wonderful fun place. And no, I don't find any of the memorabilia strange. I did find the mannequins posed around the house to be strange. But, each to his own I guess.

Oh, absolutely. To each his/her own. But, for ME, a doll on a middle aged man's bed is beyond strange.

[aproudmom]

Didn't you think the 2nd one looked more fancy than the 1st? Maybe that's not a good indication. It could be, too, that those are advertising pictures of the house and the bedrooms are not personalized yet. Don't know, though.

I think the one was before he ever moved in..here are some pics of the home..and the second bedroom are in these pics just be sure and keep hitting next cause some come up 2 or more times so hit next through all them..
http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/michael_jacksons_new_houseintaer#32330

[daniel green]

All I know...if it was happening to someone I knew and loved...I would call the FEDS myself, if CPS didn't care.

You betcha. As would I.

[GentleBreeze]

so which one is his..IIRC the second one was one that was taken awhile back when the house was up for sale..could even be the same room just not the actual picture of how it looked when he moved in..did anyone else see that interview from a couple years ago IIRC I know I am not losing it...lol..or hope not..

The deathbed room is not the one that is shown in the last video imo. And I do think that was taken the same day that the deathbed video was taken which was supposed to be the next day. I imagine the family went in and videoed the home to make sure that it was established what was there in case something went missing.

Has he lived in this mansion for a couple of years?

The deathbed is in a much smaller bedroom that looks like a guest bedroom imo.

imo

[Mairi II]

Oh, absolutely. To each his/her own. But, for ME, a doll on a middle aged man's bed is beyond strange.

But you know, really, it could've represented something very meaningful to MJ. Even as simple as something his mother had in her room or something equally as benign. It may not have been a doll to MJ at all. It may have represented something far more symbolic to him. Maybe?

[who_is_it]

Would like to know 2 things:

Was this "family friend" Taraborrelli still in contact with Michael (or at least any other family member) during the last years?

Tommy Mottola just had nice words for Michael after his death. Did they reconcile after the fight in 2002?

[BOZGAL2]

I cannot see a doll.

Guess I need to make an appointment with my Opthamologist sooner than later. :shrug:

[daniel green]

That thing was so staged it was rediculous. Who puts clipon mics on a child unless they are trying to do a video that would eventually be in the media. The mics on todays video cameras are good enough to record a child. This was no impromptu video. It was made soley to make Michael Jackson look like a real father which he wasn't. After the hanging of "Blanket" over the balcony, I lost all confidence that MJ was of reasonable mind much less body. The "Hero Worship" of Michael Jackson makes me want to barf

I am with you all the way.

Who would mic up their children for a home vid the media would not get? Who puts makeup on same children for the impromptu video????? And photographs--which, btw, have been all over the media. Photographs taken that same day.

Of COURSE it was taken/shown to show him as a good father.

And, yeah, blech is how I feel, too. Incomprehensible to me and I guess because I never followed MJ trial or whatever, I had never seen or heard from anyone who felt like that. So it's a shock.

[who_is_it]

What did Frank DiLeo say on LKL?

[daniel green]

Yes, she did say something after he ask her would she remember her lines..but a lot of it is hard to hear but it sure is precious.

imo

The little boy says he wants to be in the next ghost movie and MJ asks if he will remember his lines as an actor. Not the daughter.

[flipflop]

I cannot see a doll.

Guess I need to make an appointment with my Opthamologist sooner than later. :shrug:

LOL. Thats what I was thinking but everyone says those are legs on the right side of the bed. Plus the news is saying it is the legs of the doll, so I do believe it, I just can't see it. It is all blurry to me.

[daniel green]

I heard one of the kids mention them being in a movie or something about a movie. Then I heard MJ ask, I thought, are you going to remember your lines. Then it sounded like I heard Prince say ..I am going to do this in the movie....and he put his hand on his hip and started waving it back and forth like a wing.

No. MJ tells them they have to do that. And both kids start the hip gyration dance. It was not the children's idea.

[flipflop]

The little boy says he wants to be in the next ghost movie and MJ asks if he will remember his lines as an actor. Not the daughter.


Oh. I thought it was Paris speaking also. Their young voices sound very similar to me. :smile:

[aproudmom]

Oh, absolutely. To each his/her own. But, for ME, a doll on a middle aged man's bed is beyond strange.

oh darn he was also strange for crying for feeling he did something wrong having his first Christmas 20years ago..if he was carrying baby dolls around I would freak but I don't really care what he wanted in his room or home heck who's business is it I have a neighbor that likes to dress in women's clothes I don't call him strange he is not hurting me it is his life who am I or anyone to judge..I think it is very sad a doll is so important to some kinda like let me see what I can find to judge him this time..and not just talking about your opinion I just do not get why the media or anyone gives a holy crap I think there are more important things than a freaking doll or some lyrics or him crying over feeling bad over celebrating Christmas since his religion does not celebrate it...JMO

On that note gotta take my doggy out:smile:

[flipflop]

No. MJ tells them they have to do that. And both kids start the hip gyration dance. It was not the children's idea.


I believe that is what you heard. I did not hear it like that. I wish I had Tivo so I could listen to it again.

[CinderL.]

Oh, absolutely. To each his/her own. But, for ME, a doll on a middle aged man's bed is beyond strange.

Even in a guest room seems strange to me. If it is a kids guest room that would be one thing, but the Dr.'s room, I think is weird.

[flipflop]

That gyration dance you refer to is called the Chicken Dance. He told his kids if you want your toys, you have to do the chicken dance with me.

If every parent interacted with their children in this manner, the world would be a better place.

imo...of course.

Wow. I didn't hear that either, lol. I missed a lot of it. The expense for Tivo is rationalizing itself more and more in my mind.

[daniel green]

Don't know who's room it was but here is MSNBC reporting and providing photo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLp9crbCak

snipped]

That is the bedroom where MJ apparently died.

[daniel green]

Even in a guest room seems strange to me. If it is a kids guest room that would be one thing, but the Dr.'s room, I think is weird.

It could not be a children's room.

But, yeah, even in a middle aged man's own room a dolls is strange to me. But in his live in doc's room???? Beyond weird to me.

[daniel green]

That gyration dance you refer to is called the Chicken Dance. He told his kids if you want your toys, you have to do the chicken dance with me.

If every parent interacted with their children in this manner, the world would be a better place.

imo...of course.

Oh, please. The kids were not doing the chicken dance, which I have done not only with my five children, but with my 3 grand-kids.

But, really, it is so not important to me.

[GentleBreeze]

oh darn he was also strange for crying for feeling he did something wrong having his first Christmas 20years ago..if he was carrying baby dolls around I would freak but I don't really care what he wanted in his room or home heck who's business is it I have a neighbor that likes to dress in women's clothes I don't call him strange he is not hurting me it is his life who am I or anyone to judge..I think it is very sad a doll is so important to some kinda like let me see what I can find to judge him this time..and not just talking about your opinion I just do not get why the media or anyone gives a holy crap I think there are more important things than a freaking doll or some lyrics or him crying over feeling bad over celebrating Christmas since his religion does not celebrate it...JMO

On that note gotta take my doggy out:smile:


LOL And it wasn't his bedroom. Maybe he let the kids place the things they liked out in the home. I mean after all it was their home

I would guess it wasn't just any doll either. Most likely a highly collectible doll that is well known......maybe even rare. Paris has bocoodles of dolls. I don't think her daddy would be upset with her if she wanted to place a doll in every room.:wink: Even Blanket brought his "daddy" doll with him to the memorial.

Sounds like the MJ family likes dolls.

imo

[who_is_it]

I am with you all the way.

Who would mic up their children for a home vid the media would not get? Who puts makeup on same children for the impromptu video????? And photographs--which, btw, have been all over the media. Photographs taken that same day.

Of COURSE it was taken/shown to show him as a good father.

And, yeah, blech is how I feel, too. Incomprehensible to me and I guess because I never followed MJ trial or whatever, I had never seen or heard from anyone who felt like that. So it's a shock.

I think he didn't depend on the video to prove that he was a good father. -- See the links..., enough people confirmed his qualities as a loving father.

What Was Michael Jackson Like As A Father?
Producer Teddy Riley recalls how MJ cared for his children in 'Michael Jackson's Human Nature,' airing Saturday at noon ET on MTV.
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1617390/20090731/jackson_michael.jhtml

Rabbi Says Michael Jackson Was a Good Father
http://www.theinsider.com/news/2380337_Rabbi_Says_Michael_Jackson_Was_a_Good_Fath er

Michael Jackson was a good father - Godfather said
http://www.examiner.com/x-3035-Everyday-People-Examiner~y2009m6d25-Michael-Jackson-was-a-good-father--godfather-said (http://www.examiner.com/x-3035-Everyday-People-Examiner%7Ey2009m6d25-Michael-Jackson-was-a-good-father--godfather-said)

Jackson's Former Publicist: Pop Star "Was a Wonderful Father"
http://www.nbcchicago.com/entertainment/celebrity/Jackson_s_Former_Publicist__Pop_Star__Was_a_Wonder ful_Father__All__National_.html

Jackson Adviser: "I Had Never Seen a Better Father"
Dr. Tohme Tohme breaks silence, speaks on "world of love"
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/entertainment/celebrity/NATLJackson-Adviser-I-Had-Never-Seen-a-Better-Father.html

Many call Jackson a loving, attentive father
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31736505/ns/entertainment-music/

"We [Jackson and Stan Lee] had met a number of times. In fact, he (Jackson) came to my house once with his son, and I remember my wife took care of his son for about an hour while Michael and I were talking," said Mr Lee."He was quite a good father. He was very solicitous, and he cared very much for the boy."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5965025/Michael-Jackson-planned-to-star-in-Spider-Man-movie.html

[daniel green]

Yeah really! In addition to the 500 million + he donated to various causes, he also opened his home to the sickest of children so that they could forget what ailed them and have fun.. if even for just a while. His humanitarian efforts stand far and apart from the average rich dude. And yes, I realize that Gates has donated a hefty sum of money as well.

OK, then. But in reality his "humanitarian efforts" pale in comparison to what rich ppl give and have given and do. Take for instance, just off the top of my head, Paul Newman.

But, whatever.

It just seems so sad to think that he was the biggest humanitarian ever.

[daniel green]

Paris has bocoodles of dolls. snipped

Link please.

[flipflop]

Even in a guest room seems strange to me. If it is a kids guest room that would be one thing, but the Dr.'s room, I think is weird.

I understand what you are saying. But if dolls are someone's thing, where would you put them? I guess you could dedicate a single room to display all of them. But to me it would be more creative to put them randomly in your home.

Dolls creep me out. Big dolls, little dolls, fat dolls skinny dolls. The scariest kind for me are the real old porcelain type. I wouldn't have them in my home, EVER. But for those who collect them, to me, it is not unusual for the doll to be there.

[daniel green]

http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2009/07/31/michael_jackson_home_video_surfaces_watc

Video, for those of you wishing to see it again.

[Mairi II]

I am with you all the way.

Who would mic up their children for a home vid the media would not get? Who puts makeup on same children for the impromptu video????? And photographs--which, btw, have been all over the media. Photographs taken that same day.

Of COURSE it was taken/shown to show him as a good father.

And, yeah, blech is how I feel, too. Incomprehensible to me and I guess because I never followed MJ trial or whatever, I had never seen or heard from anyone who felt like that. So it's a shock.

And what about family videos or pics... are they not taken to memorialize what a great time people were SUPPOSEDLY having? What a happy, cohesive family unit they are/were? You don't think they're staged? "Say cheeeeese." I know I'm over-simplifying, but the spirit of my analogy isn't far off course.

Sorry you feel so bleched. How a person could glean something nefarious, suspicious, creepy, you-name-it, in absolutely every action another person takes is disturbing and equally incomprehensible to me.

[CinderL.]

I understand what you are saying. But if dolls are someone's thing, where would you put them? I guess you could dedicate a single room to display all of them. But to me it would be more creative to put them randomly in your home.

Dolls creep me out. Big dolls, little dolls, fat dolls skinny dolls. The scariest kind for me are the real old porcelain type. I wouldn't have them in my home, EVER. But for those who collect them, to me, it is not unusual for the doll to be there.

At least they aren't CLOWNS. Yikes. I don't like them. :laugh::laugh:

And at least they aren't those new look like real babies dolls that people are buying and pretending they are "real" babies. Ewwww.

[retiredcop]

Yes, it seems they have the printed words going on the wrong bedroom.

That looks very much like it IS MJs bedroom in the second video but that is not where he died. You can tell the other room that NOTW is saying was the deathbed is a smaller bedroom.

And if he had stayed in Murray's bedroom then his own room would be neat because the maids would have cleaned it since the last time he slept in his room.

Sure is a beautiful bedroom though.

imo

Where were the dolls? All of a sudden there are no dolls? I don't believe that is his bedroom.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

Just for the record, the chicken dance is not done with one hand on your back. And what MJ actually says is "if you want another toy you have to do a little of this business" and shows them the gyrating moves the kids then repeat.

The 1, 2, 3 start to that song about "we wish for our mothers" is very strange to me.

More reasons it looks staged: the little girl's bow. Both of them wearing shoes and socks with pj's. BTW, my son had the very same pj's.

I found it MOST disturbing that MJ would have the children sing you are my sunshine with "you are my daddy, my only daddy...pls don't take my daddy away."

I find that really sick.

[GentleBreeze]

Oh. I thought it was Paris speaking also. Their young voices sound very similar to me. :smile:

And even with the mics they were hard to hear sometimes.

But they darn sure are adorable.

I thought it was so cute when MJ told them they had to do the chicken dance with him and then they start trying to flap their arms like a bird. I noticed Prince was all into it much more than Paris. But didn't they say that Prince was supposed to perform with his daddy at the 02 tour?

imo

[daniel green]

What "second bedroom" are you referring to, GB? The one on the second link in NV?

Because there is only one bedroom that has been shown as the place where MJ died.

[CinderL.]

And what about family videos or pics... are they not taken to memorialize what a great time people were SUPPOSEDLY having? What a happy, cohesive family unit they are/were? You don't think they're staged? "Say cheeeeese." I know I'm over-simplifying, but the spirit of my analogy isn't far off course.

Sorry you feel so bleched. How a person could glean something nefarious, suspicious, creepy, you-name-it, in absolutely every action another person takes is disturbing and equally incomprehensible to me.

You just hit the nail on the head for me with what was bothering me about that home video. No one really look like they were having fun. Except for the part where the kids kind of were chasing Michael around a bit. I don't know, I'll have to look at some of our home movies and see what we were like. I know I hated being on the film. :ohmy:

[Emerald]

JMO

Those home videos of the children look like home videos of any other normal family.

[daniel green]

I thought it was so cute when MJ told them they had to do the chicken dance with him and then they start trying to flap their arms like a bird. snipped

That did not happen in the video.

[Mairi II]

You just hit the nail on the head for me with what was bothering me about that home video. No one really look like they were having fun. Except for the part where the kids kind of were chasing Michael around a bit. I don't know, I'll have to look at some of our home movies and see what we were like. I know I hated being on the film. :ohmy:

I hated it, too!!! LOL!! Go look at 'em and report back. :biggrin:

[ellegna]

That is the bedroom where MJ apparently died.

I was aware of that. I was responding to a poster who asked if it was confirmed whether that picture was actually Dr Murray's room.

[GentleBreeze]

Just for the record, the chicken dance is not done with one hand on your back. And what MJ actually says is "if you want another toy you have to do a little of this business" and shows them the gyrating moves the kids then repeat.

The 1, 2, 3 start to that song about "we wish for our mothers" is very strange to me.

More reasons it looks staged: the little girl's bow. Both of them wearing shoes and socks with pj's. BTW, my son had the very same pj's.

I found it MOST disturbing that MJ would have the children sing you are my sunshine with "you are my daddy, my only daddy...pls don't take my daddy away."

I find that really sick.


Oh I think it was precious.:smile: They were all there just putting on their own little show inside their own home. After all it is normal for them to want to be entertainers or maybe actors one day. I even think I read that they were taking theater classes too when they were living in the Holmby house.

imo

[CinderL.]

I hated it, too!!! LOL!! Go look at 'em and report back. :biggrin: :laugh: Not tonight. Usually someone was crying, or fighting.

[daniel green]

Who puts blush on their children before home videos, I mean, really?

And the worst part of it to me, aside from the changing of sunshine to daddy is the abuse of that poor chimp. That just makes me angry, as an animal lover and knowing how horribly chimps suffer through that.

[Mairi II]

That did not happen in the video.

Funny thing is, DG, I didn't look at the video as closely as you obviously did. I thought it was the chicken dance. But, more telling, why in the world would you look that closely at a video to come to the conclusion it wasn't the chicken dance but rather whatever conclusion you came to? I think that, in and of itself, is interesting.

That video was not released as a PR ploy. It was done years and years ago. It was a family video. Even if it wasn't the chicken dance, what's so freakin' wrong with it?? I'm stumped. Help me!!!

[daniel green]

I hated it, too!!! LOL!! Go look at 'em and report back. :biggrin:

Me, three. Hated them.

[who_is_it]

And even with the mics they were hard to hear sometimes.

But they darn sure are adorable.

I thought it was so cute when MJ told them they had to do the chicken dance with him and then they start trying to flap their arms like a bird. I noticed Prince was all into it much more than Paris. But didn't they say that Prince was supposed to perform with his daddy at the 02 tour?

imo

It was rumored Prince would perform a song together with his father.

[daniel green]

Funny thing is, DG, I didn't look at the video as closely as you obviously did. snipped

You know, I just have a weird eye like that. I see something and I remember every detail. Something about my memory. Of course, I don't even know my children's or husband's cell phone number, but I remember every detail of every movie.

[GentleBreeze]

That did not happen in the video.

It looked like it to me. These children were very little, they were not perfect but to me it looks like they were trying to flap their "wings" as they pulled their hands into the body and wiggled their stiff little hips.

I thought it was absolutely so cute and funny.

imo

[Mairi II]

Who puts blush on their children before home videos, I mean, really?

And the worst part of it to me, aside from the changing of sunshine to daddy is the abuse of that poor chimp. That just makes me angry, as an animal lover and knowing how horribly chimps suffer through that.

OMG, MJ, of all people, would!!!!!!! It doesn't make him a negligent or abusive father. It was his lifestyle - he had been reared in the entertainment field most of his life. Take yourself out of the mindset that you and he would think alike. It's clear you (and most of us) wouldn't! Give him some slack, for crying out loud.

[aproudmom]

I cannot see a doll.

Guess I need to make an appointment with my Opthamologist sooner than later. :shrug:

I guess I need to go get me some new glasses not that it matters to me if he had 20 dolls in his room..ridiculous IMO..some of the stuff that is printed will hurt those kids more than MJ did so the ones that think they were in such horrible hands should be thinking about them and not talking about such crap..Brooke S. wanted to throw her baby out the car window but no one cared about that actually she spoke out about postpartum depression after that..Wynona Ryder was so addicted to prescription meds and stole clothes but never seen her get bashed, Heath L. never saw him getting this bad of bashing not even sure Anna N smith did or her son, James Brown, Elvis, Liz Taylor the one and only JVM was a bad alcoholic, delta Burke had 20 storage buildings and her home was full of stuff she was a hoarder, one of the Olsen twins could not look at her sister because she wanted to look like her FGS they are twins but she had a eating disorder, John Travolta some talked about his sons lack of medical care and hiding his autism, Chris brown just about killed his G/F, we got M Vick's playing again after all he did to those poor dogs..Mike Tyson's 2 year old died on a treadmill, Natasha Richardson did not wear a helmet I can go on and on not that it matters because all some look at is what he was found NOT GUILTY of.. we have no clue what the rich and famous are doing we would be shocked I am sure to find out some of our favorite singers, actors, doctors, and so on are addicts some may not be wonderful parents either..all JMO I am not bashing any of these people I am simply putting what the media reported and some said about these people but it sure was not like they have with MJ..come on lets be fair..MJ is dead he paid he will never be on a stage or near his kids or dolls or whatever bothers some..so why does it matter..he is gone he is dead and yes his kids are fatherless but no one was in that home and knows how he raised then like I said I will not judge any of them especially if it killed them what is worse NOTHING IMO..

BTW Hi BOZGAL got to run my dog out..I got your PM..Please no bashing just giving my opinion

[daniel green]

Oh, and I will add, that because professionally, I have looked and look at children's videos about a zillion times, I look at them differently, perhaps, than someone else does.

However, let us remember that this is not personal. It's about the post, not the poster.

[retiredcop]

LOL And it wasn't his bedroom. Maybe he let the kids place the things they liked out in the home. I mean after all it was their home

I would guess it wasn't just any doll either. Most likely a highly collectible doll that is well known......maybe even rare. Paris has bocoodles of dolls. I don't think her daddy would be upset with her if she wanted to place a doll in every room.:wink: Even Blanket brought his "daddy" doll with him to the memorial.

Sounds like the MJ family likes dolls.

imo

That was a room set up to administer drugs. Simple as that. There was Diprivan in the closet. There were oxygen bottles. There was an IV pole with an empty bag. He was in bed with a doll. I don't believe his children or their toys were ever allowed in that room.

I think both he and Dr Murray both had other bedrooms.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

It was rumored Prince would perform a song together with his father.

Ah, thanks.

I did notice even at his age then he seemed to have more rhythm than Paris.

imo

[Mairi II]

You know, I just have a weird eye like that. I see something and I remember every detail. Something about my memory. Of course, I don't even know my children's or husband's cell phone number, but I remember every detail of every movie.

{bolding added}

Hehehehe. You and me, both.

[daniel green]

OMG, MJ, of all people, would!!!!!!! snipped.

I think that is rather obvious. I do find that distasteful when done to children, wether it's a pageant mom doing it or a parent. You know, my opinion and all that.

[daniel green]

That was a room set up to administer drugs. Simple as that. There was Diprivan in the closet. There were oxygen bottles. There was an IV pole with an empty bag. He was in bed with a doll. I don't believe his children or their toys were ever allowed in that room.

I think both he and Dr Murray both had other bedrooms.

in my opinion

I have to say I agree completely. The alcohol wipes near the bed, the incontenence pad on the bed, the tourniquet, etc, all suggest it was for that purpose.

[GentleBreeze]

That was a room set up to administer drugs. Simple as that. There was Diprivan in the closet. There were oxygen bottles. There was an IV pole with an empty bag. He was in bed with a doll. I don't believe his children or their toys were ever allowed in that room.

I think both he and Dr Murray both had other bedrooms.

in my opinion

And how would you know that his children wouldn't be allowed in there when Murray was through and MJ was awake? The article said the doll found pushed aside on the deathbed was there consistently displayed on the mattress. How much room do you think it took for MJ to lay in that bed? Now the day that he died.....hell no they didnt come in...they were scared to death when Murray screamed.

Well I certainly do believe MJ had his own bedroom. The huge elegant beautiful bedroom that was shown in the second video tonight but it does not mean he or his kids didn't decorate the rest of their home as they saw fit.

imo

[aproudmom]

That gyration dance you refer to is called the Chicken Dance. He told his kids if you want your toys, you have to do the chicken dance with me.

If every parent interacted with their children in this manner, the world would be a better place.

imo...of course.

aw I love that dance me and my boys used to do that and the macarena..and goose goose goose your it..lol..:biggrin:

[GentleBreeze]

I think that is rather obvious. I do find that distasteful when done to children, wether it's a pageant mom doing it or a parent. You know, my opinion and all that.

Did MJ try to put them in pageants?

Did he sell his home videos of him and his children?

imo

[Mairi II]

I have to say I agree completely. The alcohol wipes near the bed, the incontenence pad on the bed, the tourniquet, etc, all suggest it was for that purpose.

ITA. But I think it was a "guest room" that a doll was in that meant something to MJ...I think it was initially set up as a bonafide guest bedroom. I don't think there was anything creepy to be made of the doll at all. I don't think Murray was expected to "sleep" there per se - but rather have it set up for MJ's diprivan drips. It makes me sick to think of that. At $150K per month, it would not be unheard of to have him come in and be expected to be awake all night while MJ was being "dripped." It would be like the graveyard shift: he would sleep at his home during the day.

[who_is_it]

I guess I need to go get me some new glasses not that it matters to me if he had 20 dolls in his room..ridiculous IMO..some of the stuff that is printed will hurt those kids more than MJ did

<snipped for length>
just giving my opinion

This is SO true imo!!!

[CinderL.]

Who puts blush on their children before home videos, I mean, really?

And the worst part of it to me, aside from the changing of sunshine to daddy is the abuse of that poor chimp. That just makes me angry, as an animal lover and knowing how horribly chimps suffer through that.


I thought the Chimp was abusing Prince. Prince didn't like him.

[who_is_it]

According to this article, that rehearsal footage is not going to include much of MJ:

News that the TV networks have balked at AEG's attempt to milk them for $20 million to use Michael Jackson's "This Is It" rehearsal footage for a tube special means there will be no special – so nothing to enter into Emmy competition. The reason the networks pooh-poohed the footage, by the way, was because it didn't feature Michael Jackson. Just outtakes from other scenes!

Rehearsal footage featuring Jackson is being hoarded for the feature documentary, directed by choreographer Kenny Ortega, which will be released to theaters this year, thus being Oscar eligible. The docu will include three music videos, one a newly digitized version of "Thriller," plus two totally new works too. The latter two will certainly be Grammy eligible.

http://goldderby.latimes.com/awards_goldderby/2009/07/michael-jackson-news-3816947052-story-article-.html

Thank you for the update!

I'm looking forward to seeing the documentary by Kenny Ortega. I like Kenny Ortega.

[who_is_it]

I thought the Chimp was abusing Prince. Prince didn't like him.

Chimps get aggressive when they get older.

Did you know Bubbles is still alive?

"The public might not recognize Bubbles. He's aged since his moonwalking days. But he is alive and well, feasting on cucumbers and bananas at the sanctuary, where the care for each animal costs about $17,000. Bubbles might be out of the public eye, but Ragan doesn't want his fans to forget him."
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/07/02/michael.jackson.bubbles/

[GentleBreeze]

Link please.


Here is one link that shows a part of her bedroom.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197565/Sheriffs-raid-Michael-Jacksons-Neverland-Ranch.html

You can google for others. I have seen several photos in the past.

imo

[aproudmom]

I have to say I agree completely. The alcohol wipes near the bed, the incontenence pad on the bed, the tourniquet, etc, all suggest it was for that purpose.

I will say it could be his room since they were working on him and I have no doubt MJ was using this drug and this doctor gave it to him..but he is dead so I guess I think what is the point maybe some good can come out of this and many others can be saved..but some of that stuff I do not see..and if they found all that stuff I would think the EMT would have reported everything to LE and the ME so why did it take 2 days after people were in and out to go and see just why MJ would have IV stands and tourniquet I just find it odd they would not have got a warrant that night just like they did for Dr Murrays sisters car..JMO

[retiredcop]

Did MJ try to put them in pageants?

Did he sell his home videos of him and his children?

imo

I think someone sold that last video to Splash. I'm thinking Grace did.

in my opinion

[who_is_it]

Who puts blush on their children before home videos, I mean, really?

And the worst part of it to me, aside from the changing of sunshine to daddy is the abuse of that poor chimp. That just makes me angry, as an animal lover and knowing how horribly chimps suffer through that.

"Michael Jackson loves his animals", Interview with animal rights activist Tippi Hedren"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jason-mannino/michael-jackson-loved-his_b_224324.html

I don't think that the chimp suffered. Monkeys like to be play around and don't shy away from man-made environments. In South Africa different species of monkeys sometimes climb into houses, hotels and other man-made places. They not only steal food but also items like mirrors, cups -- all what they find interesting.

Baboon "Gangs" run wild in suburban South Africa
"The large monkeys invade people's homes in the coastal Table Mountain region, sometimes confronting people who try to scare the baboons off."
"They even know how to open doors." (...)
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/10/061004-baboons.html

[GentleBreeze]

ITA. But I think it was a "guest room" that a doll was in that meant something to MJ...I think it was initially set up as a bonafide guest bedroom. I don't think there was anything creepy to be made of the doll at all. I don't think Murray was expected to "sleep" there per se - but rather have it set up for MJ's diprivan drips. It makes me sick to think of that. At $150K per month, it would not be unheard of to have him come in and be expected to be awake all night while MJ was being "dripped." It would be like the graveyard shift: he would sleep at his home during the day.

Right, he was not supposed to be sleeping. That seems to be the entire crux of the matter because it seems like he was sleeping rather than closely monitoring like he was supposed to do.:sad:

[CinderL.]

I will say it could be his room since they were working on him and I have no doubt MJ was using this drug and this doctor gave it to him..but he is dead so I guess I think what is the point maybe some good can come out of this and many others can be saved..but some of that stuff I do not see..and if they found all that stuff I would think the EMT would have reported everything to LE and the ME so why did it take 2 days after people were in and out to go and see just why MJ would have IV stands and tourniquet I just find it odd they would not have got a warrant that night just like they did for Dr Murrays sisters car..JMO

All great points. I am wondering all of the same.

[retiredcop]

ITA. But I think it was a "guest room" that a doll was in that meant something to MJ...I think it was initially set up as a bonafide guest bedroom. I don't think there was anything creepy to be made of the doll at all. I don't think Murray was expected to "sleep" there per se - but rather have it set up for MJ's diprivan drips. It makes me sick to think of that. At $150K per month, it would not be unheard of to have him come in and be expected to be awake all night while MJ was being "dripped." It would be like the graveyard shift: he would sleep at his home during the day.

I think that doll did mean something to Mr Jackson. No doubt about it.

in my opinion

[GentleBreeze]

I think someone sold that last video to Splash. I'm thinking Grace did.

in my opinion

What video? The one that shows his gorgeous bedroom? I thought NOTW said a family member took the video of the inside of the home the day after he died?

ETA; you mean the one of the kids. The family came and picked up all of MJs personal possessions, not Grace.


imo

[retiredcop]

Right, he was not supposed to be sleeping. That seems to be the entire crux of the matter because it seems like he was sleeping rather than closely monitoring like he was supposed to do.:sad:

I thought the treatment had ended and an aide came in a gave him a shot of Demerol while the doctor was sleeping.

in my opinion

[CinderL.]

I think that doll did mean something to Mr Jackson. No doubt about it.

in my opinion


Uh oh.

Has anyone heard anything about the autopsy report? Or when they may release the results?

[Mairi II]

I will say it could be his room since they were working on him and I have no doubt MJ was using this drug and this doctor gave it to him..but he is dead so I guess I think what is the point maybe some good can come out of this and many others can be saved..but some of that stuff I do not see..and if they found all that stuff I would think the EMT would have reported everything to LE and the ME so why did it take 2 days after people were in and out to go and see just why MJ would have IV stands and tourniquet I just find it odd they would not have got a warrant that night just like they did for Dr Murrays sisters car..JMO

I've wondered the same thing, APM.

Here is something else that makes me wonder - I'm not sure what about, but it makes me wonder....ha!!

I've wondered if Murray knew MJ was dead and went through the motions of CPR for the security guy's benefit. Why else would he be performing CPR on a bed? It's not going to do any good. It's like he wanted the security dude to think MJ was still alive but didn't count on the fact he was performing CPR on the bed & that it would be an issue. I think MJ was dead well before 911 was called. Murray freaked out.

[CinderL.]

I thought the treatment had ended and an aide came in a gave him a shot of Demerol while the doctor was sleeping.

in my opinion

I do think the Propofol is what killed him. I am not really believing the aide story.

[CinderL.]

I've wondered the same thing, APM.

Here is something else that makes me wonder - I'm not sure what about, but it makes me wonder....ha!!

I've wondered if Murray knew MJ was dead and went through the motions of CPR for the security guy's benefit. Why else would he be performing CPR on a bed? It's not going to do any good. It's like he wanted the security dude to think MJ was still alive but didn't count on the fact he was performing CPR on the bed & that it would be an issue. I think MJ was dead well before 911 was called. Murray freaked out.

I think MJ was dead when Dr. M. found him. Way dead. IMO

[retiredcop]

I do think the Propofol is what killed him. I am not really believing the aide story.

I really wish that tox report would come out. Wasn't it suppose to be this week?

in my opinion

[Mairi II]

I thought the treatment had ended and an aide came in a gave him a shot of Demerol while the doctor was sleeping.

in my opinion

So maybe that's where Murray's statement of...something to the effect... he didn't administer anything that could've killed MJ? Because Diprivan is out of the system within minutes? If that's what you're thinking, I've thought the same.

[GentleBreeze]

I thought the treatment had ended and an aide came in a gave him a shot of Demerol while the doctor was sleeping.

in my opinion

I don't believe that bird cage liner for one second.

They wouldn't be doing raids on Murray's home and search warrants on his storage areas.

No, no, imo he is da man.

imo

[Mairi II]

I think that doll did mean something to Mr Jackson. No doubt about it.

in my opinion

I think our thoughts on just what it meant, though, don't converge. :smile:

[CinderL.]

I really wish that tox report would come out. Wasn't it suppose to be this week?

in my opinion

I wish so too. Maybe we need to put a call into the LAPD and tell them to get on with it, so we all don't get banned first. :ohmy::laugh:

[retiredcop]

So maybe that's where Murray's statement of...something to the effect... he didn't administer anything that could've killed MJ? Because Diprivan is out of the system within minutes? If that's what you're thinking, I've thought the same.

And his lawyer issuing a statement soon after Mr Jackson's death that Dr Murrary had never prescribed Demerol or Oxicontin to him.

in my opinio

[daniel green]

snipped The article said the doll found pushed aside on the deathbed was there consistently displayed on the mattress.

Where does it say that, pls?

TIA

[GentleBreeze]

Uh oh.

Has anyone heard anything about the autopsy report? Or when they may release the results?

Last word.....indefinitely.

The Judge can seal the autopsy report and imo I think that is what we are going to see happen.

If they bring charges against Murray they will want to keep what was discovered during autopsy under wraps and if a Judge thinks it will impeded the investigation he/she can seal it up tight. At least for awhile anyway.

imo

[daniel green]

Here is one link that shows a part of her bedroom.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197565/Sheriffs-raid-Michael-Jacksons-Neverland-Ranch.html

You can google for others. I have seen several photos in the past.

imo

No place on that there that she had dolls. Let alone "bocoodles of dolls," as per your post.

So, I take it, you assume she had dolls, right?

[aproudmom]

Here is one link that shows a part of her bedroom.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1197565/Sheriffs-raid-Michael-Jacksons-Neverland-Ranch.html

You can google for others. I have seen several photos in the past.

imo

Boy that almost looks like a painting

[GentleBreeze]

Where does it say that, pls?

TIA

Sheesh daniel, I have put the link up today and not too long ago someone else linked it.

I'm tired..........cant you do a search?

imo