Tax Burden of Top 1% Now Exceeds That of Bottom 95%

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Tax Burden of Top 1% Now Exceeds That of Bottom 95%

Newly released data from the IRS clearly debunks the conventional Beltway rhetoric that the "rich" are not paying their fair share of taxes.

More at link:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24944.html

Tax Foundation:

The Tax Foundation is a Washington-D.C.-based tax research organization founded in 1937. It is organized as 501(c)3 non-profit educational organization. The group is most famous for its annual calculation of Tax Freedom Day, which it has produced since the early 1970s. The Tax Foundation's stated mission is to "educate taxpayers about sound tax policy and the size of the tax burden borne by Americans at all levels of government."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Foundation

[Brat2002]

They won't be happy till the top 1% pays 99% of all taxes.

IMO

[Lady_Jean_La]

And when the top 1% lose income they don't pay tax as California found out. imo

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

They won't be happy till the top 1% pays 99% of all taxes.

IMO

The research is startling IMO. What would happen if just half of the "rich" decided to become expatriate's , I wonder?

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

And when the top 1% lose income they don't pay tax as California found out. imo

Would you like an IOU? :bored:

[flareon]

The research is startling IMO. What would happen if just half of the "rich" decided to become expatriate's , I wonder?

I can tell what will happen. The tax increase ceiling will keep going down and all those who believed the nonsense that you can get something for nothing will have the truth hit them in the face. The bad part is this will also happen on the state level.

[flareon]

They won't be happy till the top 1% pays 99% of all taxes.

IMO

Are you serious? They want them to pay 100% because they somehow have been programmed to believe it is a God given right that the government is supposed to take care of someone from cradle to grave.

[flareon]

Would you like an IOU? :bored:

God, can you imagine the hardship that is creating for people?

[Lady_Jean_La]

I can tell what will happen. The tax increase ceiling will keep going down and all those who believed the nonsense that you can get something for nothing will have the truth hit them in the face. The bad part is this will also happen on the state level.
Exactly.
:scared:

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

I can tell what will happen. The tax increase ceiling will keep going down and all those who believed the nonsense that you can get something for nothing will have the truth hit them in the face. The bad part is this will also happen on the state level.

Sagely shaking my head in agreement.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

God, can you imagine the hardship that is creating for people?




Hey Lady, I'm sorry, we have a stack of paper for dinner this evening because the Government could not pay us for that air conditiong I installed last month.... would you like that shaken or stirred?

OOps sorry should have been grilled or broiled---- the lack of food is affecting my brain!! :tongueside:

[flareon]

Hey Lady, I'm sorry, we have a stack of paper for dinner this evening because the Government could not pay us for that air conditiong I installed last month.... would you like that shaken or stirred?

OOps sorry should have been grilled or broiled---- the lack of food is affecting my brain!! :tongueside:

Absolutely and this would have a real trickle down affect.

From what I understand the people affected are to be paid back with a large amount of interest, but isn't that just going to make the problem worse?

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Are you serious? They want them to pay 100% because they somehow have been programmed to believe it is a God given right that the government is supposed to take care of someone from cradle to grave.






Don't forget it is also the responsibility to take care of those who are here ‘sans permission’ (:confused:) too.

[LisaM22]

Tax Burden of Top 1% Now Exceeds That of Bottom 95%



More at link:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24944.html

Tax Foundation:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Foundation

what percent of the income does the top 10% take in, what percent of the taxes do the top 10% pay out

I just love how republicans want us to feel sorry for those that make more then 99% of America, more then the rich ceo's more then the president, more then almost anyone, of course they are gonna pay more taxes, they make more then anyone - yet republicans pick them as their poster child - lol

[flareon]

Don't forget it is also the responsibility to take care of those who are here ‘sans permission’ (:confused:) too.

I know. It doesn't make any sense.

[LisaM22]

LOL great reasoning. Companies, factories, clinics, stores, etc. that employ all of you can go right along with them. I suppose Obama would take care of you 100% then?
IMO

the top 10% have 90% of the wealth in this country, is that not enough, do you really thing they need more then 90% - get real, they can afford to go back to the tax rates they had under Reagan

and with 90% of the wealth, they can afford to pay 90% of the taxes

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

what percent of the income does the top 10% take in, what percent of the taxes do the top 10% pay out

I just love how republicans want us to feel sorry for those that make more then 99% of America, more then the rich ceo's more then the president, more then almost anyone, of course they are gonna pay more taxes, they make more then anyone - yet republicans pick them as their poster child - lol

Lisa did you look at the chart?

In 2007, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 40.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.8 percent of adjusted gross income. Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—are significantly higher than they were in 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.


http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

:lol: You proved her point. fwiw, there is help on-line for you math challenged people.



The top one percent earned 22.8 percent of adjusted gross income and paid 40.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes.

How did that illustrate her point?

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

:sleep: 1 no LINK to YOUR alleged "NUMBERS" and IF you could prove those 'numbers' wHat fool in their right mind would find them acceptable? :blink:

Same link two posts above you commented on ALREADY, post number 23. In fact you quoted the link.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

:sleep: 1 no LINK to YOUR alleged "NUMBERS" and IF you could prove those 'numbers' wHat fool in their right mind would find them acceptable? :blink:



Here it is again, it also happens to be in the OP of this thread and in post number 22, and YOU quote it in post number 23.

In 2007, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 40.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.8 percent of adjusted gross income. Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—are significantly higher than they were in 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

:sleep: 1 no LINK to YOUR alleged "NUMBERS" and IF you could prove those 'numbers' wHat fool in their right mind would find them acceptable? :blink:

And they are totally unacceptable!

[LisaM22]

Lisa did you look at the chart?


I said top 10%, not top 1%, but I think the top 1% making almost 1\4 of all the income in this country is crazy and yes they should pay more tax then the rest of us

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

And, because you have nothing to add, anyone should scroll back? Post it quote it or ... face it, you have no facts. :wub:




Is this what they call 'baiting' here on this forum?

You asked for a link @ 12:34 am (post number 25). I post it 12:41 am in post number 27 and now you claim I dd not post the link and you claim ignorance to the fact it has already been posted 4 times in this thread.

Yes, I think this must be “baiting" someone to get them to react unkindly.


Psssttttt

I'm not a fishy-- won't take your bait. :lol:

[Brat2002]

LOL great reasoning. Companies, factories, clinics, stores, etc. that employ all of you can go right along with them. I suppose Obama would take care of you 100% then?
IMO

My thoughts exactly! Do liberals realize that when rich people leave, the government can no longer pick their pockets and give the money away to others? Those rich people and companies create more opportunites and offer more needed services than any government program ever will. The liberals should be worried about the jobs we tax payers need so we can keep things going. If the liberals in Washington could get all their bills passed, some are estimating that many would pay nearly 50% of their wages in state and federal taxes. Half!!! That amazes me.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

I said top 10%, not top 1%, but I think the top 1% making almost 1\4 of all the income in this country is crazy and yes they should pay more tax then the rest of us

And the OP was about the top 1 percent. Write to the Tax foundation or read their website, perhaps your answer is there. I do not see how it changes anything in the OP.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/



You find this fair?



In 2007, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 40.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.8 percent of adjusted gross income. Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—are significantly higher than they were in 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

( empahsis added)

What happens if that top 1 percent became expatriate's tomorrow -- where would that leave us?

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

My thoughts exactly! Do liberals realize that when rich people leave, the government can no longer pick their pockets and give the money away to others? Those rich people and companies create more opportunites and offer more needed services than any government program ever will. The liberals should be worried about the jobs we tax payers need so we can keep things going. If the liberals in Washington could get all their bills passed, some are estimating that many would pay nearly 50% of their wages in state and federal taxes. Half!!! That amazes me.


Great post! I just do not understand where people think all this money will come from if they leave.

[LisaM22]

And the OP was about the top 1 percent. Write to the Tax foundation or read their website, perhaps your answer is there. I do not see how it changes anything in the OP.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/



You find this fair?





( empahsis added)

What happens if that top 1 percent became expatriate's tomorrow -- where would that leave us?

yes, I find it fair, I am sure many would trade places with them, if they do not think it is fair, then make less money, simple as that, no one is forcing them to take so much, that is their choice, the more you earn the more you pay.... the top 10% get the most America has to offer, that comes at a price

[LisaM22]

Great post! I just do not understand where people think all this money will come from if they leave.

if they are unAmerican enough to ship so many jobs overseas, then let them leave, I think most love this country and are willing to pay their taxes to live here - even with the Bush tax cuts look at all the jobs shipped overseas, greed is what causes that, no mater what the tax rate is

a corporation can not just get up and leave, but a rich person can, if they dislike this country so much, then maybe leaving would not be such a bad idea

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Still gathering non- facts from blogs to support your agendas??? :crying:




That is not a blog-- no matter how you try to spin it, what you don't like the link so you say it is a blog when it is clearly not, nice try . :lol:

It is a non profit located in Washington DC.

Link again:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/

And an article to show who they are:

The Tax Foundation is a Washington-D.C.-based tax research organization founded in 1937. It is organized as 501(c)3 non-profit educational organization. The group is most famous for its annual calculation of Tax Freedom Day, which it has produced since the early 1970s. The Tax Foundation's stated mission is to "educate taxpayers about sound tax policy and the size of the tax burden borne by Americans at all levels of government."

(PS thanks for the bump)

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

if they are unAmerican enough to ship so many jobs overseas, then let them leave, I think most love this country and are willing to pay their taxes to live here - even with the Bush tax cuts look at all the jobs shipped overseas, greed is what causes that, no mater what the tax rate is

a corporation can not just get up and leave, but a rich person can, if they dislike this country so much, then maybe leaving would not be such a bad idea

I do believe you misundestood my question. What would happen to all the programs that their money supports in the tax base if they were to leave tomorrow? How would those programs be funded? 40% of all tax revenue is A LOT of money wouldn't you agree?

It would affect a lot of people because the rest of the taxpayers who may remain would have a lot of slack to pick up.

[LisaM22]

also I think republicans forget, the rich pay a very very small percent of social security and Medicare tax, the tax is capped at around 100k, those taxes need to be included in those number but they are not

we need to remove the caps, everyone should pay the same tax for every dollar they earn, not have a cap

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

SNIPPED TO SAVE BANDWITH

Wrong! This is what you posted in your very first post on this thread:

http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24944.html

It's a blog. Gotcha! :wink:

The truth will set you free, try it.

You can see the article from the main link as well.

Here

Income Tax Payment of Top 1% of Filers Exceeds that of Bottom 95%

The top 1 percent of tax filers earned about 22.8 percent of the nation's income in 2007 (the latest IRS data available) and paid 40.4 percent of all federal income taxes—more than the bottom 95 percent of tax filers combined, according to a Tax Foundation analysis of just-released IRS data. In Fiscal Fact No. 183, "Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data," Tax Foundation Senior Economist Gerald Prante notes that the record-setting trend for income and income tax shares is likely to end with 2007, given the economic downturn in 2008.

( emphais added)

http://www.taxfoundation.org/

and Here from the publications link

The Internal Revenue Service has released new data on individual income taxes, reporting on calendar year 2007, a year in which the economy remained healthy and continued to grow. Individual income tax collections increased substantially that year, while the overall average effective tax rate remained about the same.

In 2007, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 40.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.8 percent of adjusted gross income. Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—are significantly higher than they were in 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

( emphais added)


http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html

Both of which are not blogs. :closedeyes:

[LisaM22]

IaNsSyAlNuE, that doesn't include all federal taxes, your twisting the number by leaving out the taxes the majority of us pay for every dollar we earn and the rich pay only for a small fraction of the dollars they earn - social security and Medicare are not counted, yet that is a big tax on most Americans, though a tiny tax on the rich as they do not have to pay that tax on most of the money they earn

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

IaNsSyAlNuE, that doesn't include all federal taxes, your twisting the number by leaving out the taxes the majority of us pay for every dollar we earn and the rich pay only for a small fraction of the dollars they earn - social security and Medicare are not counted, yet that is a big tax on most Americans, though a tiny tax on the rich

I have not twisted any numbers and have copied and pasted directly from the web site perhaps you would like to read it again, or point out where you think I have copied and pasted it wrong?



In 2007, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 40.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.8 percent of adjusted gross income. Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—are significantly higher than they were in 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

(emphasis added)

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html

PS if you like you can call me 'Ian's' for short.

[LisaM22]

I have not twisted any numbers and have copied and pasted directly from the web site perhaps you would like to read it again, or point out where you think I have copied and pasted it wrong?





(emphasis added)

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html

PS if you like you can call me 'Ian's' for short.
that is FICA and doesn't include the federal tax for social security and Medicare and you know it don't you.....

[LisaM22]

republican priorities, let's worry about the top 1% who are not in trouble and ignore the rest of the country that needs the help now - they wont give up on this trickle down theory even though it has been proved time and time again to be a failure

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

that is FICA and doesn't include the federal tax for social security and Medicare and you know it don't you.....

I have never mentioned Social Security and or Medicare. I said 'Income Tax' AKA FICA. We have been discussing Income tax NOT social Security or Medicare. It changes NOTHING in the OP


In 2007, the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 40.4 percent of all federal individual income taxes and earned 22.8 percent of adjusted gross income. Both of those figures—share of income and share of taxes paid—are significantly higher than they were in 2004 when the top 1 percent earned 19 percent of adjusted gross income (AGI) and paid 36.9 percent of federal individual income taxes.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/

To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent is comprised of just 1.4 million taxpayers and they pay a larger share of the income tax burden now than the bottom 134 million taxpayers combined.

[LisaM22]

I have never mentioned Social Security and or Medicare. I said 'Income Tax' AKA FICA. We have been discussing Income tax NOT social Security or Medicare. It changes NOTHING in the OP




http://www.taxfoundation.org/

To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent is comprised of just 1.4 million taxpayers and they pay a larger share of the income tax burden now than the bottom 134 million taxpayers combined.


I guess you do not get a paycheck (or you stopped having that deduction after you hit 100k), those federal taxes are taken out just like any other for our paychecks (every one), of course you do not want to count them, cause then your numbers do not favor your argument

as for that 1%, even after paying taxes they make more then the rest of us, simple as that, so cry me a river why don't ya

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

I guess you do not get a paycheck, those federal taxes are taken out just like any other for mine, of course you do not want to count them, cause then your numbers do not favor your argument

I do get a paycheck and they are all broken down into seperate areas. Social Security, Medicare, State taxes, and Federal AKA Income Tax.



Social Security funds Social Security.

Medicare funds medicare.


Income Tax is what is used to fund roads, police, social programs such as welfare, etc....

Income tax is what we were discussing. And the top one percent pays over 40 percent of those taxes or 'Income tax AKA individual Federal Taxes'.

[LisaM22]

I do get a paycheck and they are all broken down into seperate areas. Social Security, Medicare, State taxes, and Federal AKA Income Tax.



Social Security funds Social Security.

Medicare funds medicare.


Income Tax is what is used to fund roads, police, social programs such as welfare, etc....

Income tax is what we were discussing. And the top one percent pays over 40 percent of those taxes or 'Income tax AKA individual Federal Taxes'.

yes and Medicare and social security tax is part of income tax, you just do not want to count it as they do not favor your argument

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

QUOTE Snipped to address edit


as for that 1%, even after paying taxes they make more then the rest of us, simple as that, so cry me a river why don't ya

QUOTE snipped

Again, I will ask if that percentage leaves, how do you think this economy will fair? 40% of income tax gone.

[LisaM22]

QUOTE Snipped to address edit



QUOTE snipped

Again, I will ask if that percentage leaves, how do you think this economy will fair? 40% of income tax gone.

then someone that wants to pay the tax will earn the money and pay tax on it.... believe it or not, the majority of America would not mind making enough money to pay that tax

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

yes and Medicare and social security tax is part of income tax, you just do not want to count it as they do not favor your argument

I'm not sure if I understand why you think that this would not add quite a bit more onto the top one percents tax burden. If one adds it on then it goes up significantly from 40 percent they already pay. It certainty does not get any lower.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

then someone that wants to pay the tax will earn the money and pay tax on it.... believe it or not, the majority of America would not mind making enough money to pay that tax

What happens to the social programs which were being funded by the 40 percent? It seems like a lot would be lost...

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

:tonguewag: so your latrest revision of NON fact is what? :tongueside: bye bye to fact?

http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/wp1.pdf

[LisaM22]

I'm not sure if I understand why you think that this would not add quite a bit more onto the top one percents tax burden. If one adds it on then it goes up significantly from 40 percent they already pay. It certainty does not get any lower.

which is why the top 10% should not make 90% of the income in this country anyways, it should be more like 50-60%, it's a national security risk from the story you be a tellen if the top 1% own so much of America's resources, we can do without those that hate America, they will take their wealth, but the income will move on to someone else who will be glad to make enough to pay those taxes

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

which is why the top 10% should not make 90% of the income in this country anyways, it should be more like 50-60%, it's a national security risk from the story you be a tellen, we can do without those that hate America, they will take their wealth, but the income will move on to someone else who will be glad to make enough to pay those taxes


Where do you get that the top 1 percent or 10 percent hate America? And that they make 90 percent of the income?

[LisaM22]

Where do you get that the top 1 percent or 10 percent hate America?

I never said that, you said some would hate America and leave, I said good riddens to them if that is the way they feel about America

the top 10% have the most America has to offer, they should have no problem giving back to the country that has given them so much

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

I never said that, you said some would hate America and leave, I said good riddens to them if that is the way they feel about America

the top 10% have the most America has to offer, they have no problem giving back to the country that has given them so much

I did not say they hate America—I said what happened if something happened to them or they became expatriates. An expat does not have to hate America to leave. They could simply move on.

What happens to that Money-- you keep saying someone else could pay it-- why do you think the income would be avaliable?

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Have a good night all.... I've got to be going for now...

:seeya:

[LisaM22]

I did not say they hate America—I said what happened if something happened to them or they became expatriates. An expat does not have to hate America to leave. They could simply move on.

What happens to that Money-- you keep saying someone else could pay it-- why do you think the income would be avaliable?

as I said, this is why the top 10% should not make 90% of the income, it should be more evenly distributed, having 10% make 90% of the income is a national security risk according to what your saying

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

as I said, this is why the top 10% should not make 90% of the income, it should be more evenly distributed, having 10% make 90% of the income is a national security risk according to what your saying

I did not say that the top 10% made 90 percent of the income. That is something you said-- numbers you came up with.

The top one percent make 22.8 percent of of adjusted gross income in 2007 and paid 40.4 percent in taxes, according to Tax Foundation. org.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Again-- have a good night all.... I'm off for now.

[Circe]

It's not a big mystery you know........ever since J.P. Morgan basically bailed out the government by buying $200 million of government bonds......with gold mind you.........the Republicans have owed the rich and big business big time. And big business would give their right AND left arm to go back to those days, and the Republicans do everything that they can to help them get back to the so called "Gilded Age" when this country had two classes..........the rich and everyone else. So they cry over the fact that someone making more money than most of us would make in several lifetimes have to actually pay taxes on it. Ain't it a shame.

JMO, of course.

[flareon]

Just another way of those resentful of people who earn big money saying "I want all of mine and part of yours." MO

You're exactly right. But I guess it is easier than planning ahead, getting an education, honing your skills, taking a risk, sacrificing your time, etc.

[LisaM22]

the income of the top keeps going up, the bottom stays the same or goes down and that is if your lucky enough to find a job anymore as so many of the top 10% have off-shored American jobs for slave labor wages that no American can compete with - of course the top 10% is paying more taxes percentage wise then before, but they are not paying more per dollar, in fact they are still paying the same as they were under Bush, the Bush tax cuts don't expire until next yeaar

[LisaM22]

Just another way of those resentful of people who earn big money saying "I want all of mine and part of yours." MO

it's about those that have taken 90% of the pie and complaining about wanting that last 10%

[LisaM22]

Don't be so resentful of those making big money, they aren't to blame for whatever part of the pie you're in. Everyone is responsible for themselves in my book.
IMO

if that were true, the rich and the corps would not have so many lobbyist to make sure they took a bigger part of the pie, don't be so resentful of the working class, just because they were not lucky enough to be in the top 10%

[theal3]

if that were true, the rich and the corps would not have so many lobbyist to make sure they took a bigger part of the pie, don't be so resentful of the working class, just because they were not lucky enough to be in the top 10%

If the top 10% want to keep making all that money it stands to reason they should invest in a healthy, smart workforce. Who do they think buys, makes, and uses their products. We need a strong, healthy, smart middle classes and it's been eroding. There will always be poor.

Let them realize thier extra taxes going back to the rates before the last Bush tax cut.....is really an investment in America' future and their future, too. IMHO

[Brat2002]

You're exactly right. But I guess it is easier than planning ahead, getting an education, honing your skills, taking a risk, sacrificing your time, etc.

Now, flareon, you don't think that "personal responsibility" stuff is going to fly around here, do ya? LOL I believe in many cases, people could have done so much better for themselves, but they would rather blame those producers who sacrificed and worked hard to get where they are. Don't you understand the liberal mantra that anyone who is doing well must have cheated somehow or won life's lottery? Only those who threw in the towel and ran to the government are worthy.

Just because some quit school and made bad decisions, we can't hold that against them. I'm sure it's the wealthy people's fault for leading them into temptation. And who are these businesses that insult us by offering jobs and opportunity to advance one's lot in life? Where do they get off thinking we should actually work? Just because they are smart and dedicated their entire adult life to their work, does that mean they should enjoy the fruits of their labor? Of course not. We must punish them for their ingenuity because they are responsible for all the people's woes. All that competition in the free market that makes anything and and everything available at reasonable prices is just evil. We even entice people from other countries to flock here to join in and some are so anxious for a better life, they don't have time to check in at the border and they sneak in and get right to work.

Companies kept reinvesting their money in their business and more unwanted jobs and opportunity were creeping up everywhere. How frightening was that? Seriously, how tempted were those companies to hire on the illegals beating a path to their door and save all that money? How different it would have been if citizens had been going after those jobs. That's one thing I give credit to illegals for. They are willing to work to make their own life better. For those waiting for someone else to do it for them, it may never come.

Most of us are not wealthy, but we make an honest living and strive to live within our means. We pay a lot in taxes already, but it's just never enough. You see, liberals understand that people are too stupid to know the proper way to spend their money and that's why they think government should do it all for us. Haven't you learned anything from reading the liberal posts on this board?

Wasn't it Andrea Mitchell who recently said, regarding the healthcare bill, that even though most Americans state that they are happy with our current system, we don't know what is good for us? That is the liberal creed in a nutshell. We're stupid and we need them to tell us how to live.

disclaimer:
Before anyone attacks, I am not talking about elderly or disabled above. And I don't consider a dropout with a long police record or someone who never even tried to do for themselves as disabled.

IMO

[LisaM22]

If the top 10% want to keep making all that money it stands to reason they should invest in a healthy, smart workforce. Who do they think buys, makes, and uses their products. We need a strong, healthy, smart middle classes and it's been eroding. There will always be poor.

Let them realize thier extra taxes going back to the rates before the last Bush tax cut.....is really an investment in America' future and their future, too. IMHO

exactly, how much money did they make under Bush, they thought Bush was helping them with the tax cuts for the rich, but by hurting the middle class, he hurt everyone, including the rich

[StarShine]

Are you serious? They want them to pay 100% because they somehow have been programmed to believe it is a God given right that the government is supposed to take care of someone from cradle to grave.

sickening, but true!!

[LisaM22]

Can you imagine what the world's going to be like when the children of all of these who feel entitled come of age? Who is going to provide for them since obviously they will not have been taught anything about personal responsibility? MO

I grew up part of my childhood on welfare, I can't imagine what life would of been like without it

[Lady_Jean_La]

Don't be so resentful of those making big money, they aren't to blame for whatever part of the pie you're in. Everyone is responsible for themselves in my book.
IMOWhat we need is more pie but it seems things are going the other way. imo

[LisaM22]

flareon, no one said they want the top 10% to pay a tax rate of 100%, how about the tax rate under Regan, sounds good to me

[LisaM22]

What we need is more pie but it seems things are going the other way. imo

corps are outsourcing the pie overseas and the saving goes into their bank accounts via huge unreasonable salaries and bonuses, the cause and effect of those actions is starting to show more and more - less jobs for Americans equal less taxes for government and less spending, and the snowball gets bigger and bigger

[flareon]

Now, flareon, you don't think that "personal responsibility" stuff is going to fly around here, do ya? LOL I believe in many cases, people could have done so much better for themselves, but they would rather blame those producers who sacrificed and worked hard to get where they are. Don't you understand the liberal mantra that anyone who is doing well must have cheated somehow or won life's lottery? Only those who threw in the towel and ran to the government are worthy.

SNIPPED FOR SPACE



Great post.

It is a strange mindset and one that is born out of many causes. Some are just outright jealous but some have these notions because they don't think they can ever achieve success. Much of this is a result of policies that are designed to make someone dependent.

[flareon]

Can you imagine what the world's going to be like when the children of all of these who feel entitled come of age? Who is going to provide for them since obviously they will not have been taught anything about personal responsibility? MO

I shudder to think but I think we saw a hint of it during this economic downturn. The standard fix seemed to be rewarding bad behavior and neglecting the ones who had been paying the freight all along.

[Brat2002]

What we need is more pie but it seems things are going the other way. imo

The pie does get bigger when companies expand and create more jobs. You just have to come to the table and not wait for it to be delivered, IMO.

[Brat2002]

Which resentful people are those? Do you know about some special "herd" of people that are resentful of those who earn big money? I've earned huge money in my lifetime, and so did my husband, yet you want to accuse everyone who is NOT right wing of beingresentful. Do you see how ridiculous your OPINION is?

What I do resent about the Right Wing is NOT their income, but their "I've got mine, too bad about the rest" mentality.

IMO

No, it's "I worked hard for my family and myself and you can, too". I don't have any problem helping those who are unable to help themselves. For the ones that are perfectly capable, I'd rather give them a kick in the behind rather than a hand out.

Some of us try way harder, though it doesn't seem to get us anywhere. Does anyone else cringe when they look at their paystub and see how much is taken in taxes? If you're low income, you're good to go and you qualify for help. I know of some cases where these folks end up with more than the rest of us by the time you add up their benefits. Food stamps, assistance with rent and utilities and if their kids want college, all they have to do is study and get good grades. Of course, that's where the parents come in and teach their kids what is really important for their own future. Being poor does not stop anyone from having good priorities and a functional home.

The ones that have the toughest time paying high utility bills, food, taxes and getting to college are middle class. We don't earn enough to pay things easily and I have to be on the budget plan for heat. I also have to be careful with the budget. I was not able to pay the full college tuition and we're not poor enough for help, so we are up to our eyeballs in student loans. I was in the finance office at the college and I heard one woman in there being told that the parental responsibility after FAFSA paid would be zero! I found out that low income people qualify. The more kids in school, the better. Of course, that money runs out each semester so it's first come, first serve, but I should think those kids would also qualify for low interest student loans. If you don't mind working to pay them back, it's definitely an option. But so much better to use our tax dollars instead. After all, we aren't using our money wisely.

IMO

[Veritas]

LINK
(http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/08/geithner-wont-rule-out-new-taxes-for-middle-class.html)

To get the economy back on track, will President Barack Obama have to break his pledge not to raise taxes on 95 percent of Americans? In a “This Week” exclusive, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner told me, "We’re going to have to do what’s necessary.”

Geithner was clear that he believes a key component of economic recovery is deficit reduction. When I gave him several opportunities to rule out a middle class tax hike, he wouldn’t do it.



Surprise, Surprise!! :rolleyes:

[History Buff]

I wonder if he'll be willing to pay his fair share.

[Veritas]

LINK (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/01/us/politics/01taxes.html?_r=2)



“There is no way we can pay for health care and the rest of the Obama agenda, plus get our long-term deficits under control, simply by raising taxes on the wealthy,” said Isabel V. Sawhill, a former Clinton administration budget official. “The middle class is going to have to contribute as well.”




Surprise, Surprise! :rolleyes:

[Veritas]

Barack Obama said:

"I pledge that under my plan, no one making less than $250,000 a year will see any type of tax increase. Not income tax, not capital gains taxes, not any kind of tax." - Barack Obama



:rolleyes:

[dinojen]

LINK (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/01/us/politics/01taxes.html?_r=2)






Surprise, Surprise! :rolleyes:



We can do it yes we can....:rolleyes:

His next town hall will start out with his infamous.. Let me be clear.. let me be perfectly clear... hmmmm wait need to get my teleprompter started up...then I can tell you what I need you to put in your pipe and smoke...

Thanks for the link and no I'm not surprised.. in the least. JMVHO


Let's bail out a few more banks, invest in a few more corporations with taxpayer monies and pay out a few more bonuses for bailed out corps...:thumbsup:

[FurthurBB]

No, it's "I worked hard for my family and myself and you can, too". I don't have any problem helping those who are unable to help themselves. For the ones that are perfectly capable, I'd rather give them a kick in the behind rather than a hand out.

Some of us try way harder, though it doesn't seem to get us anywhere. Does anyone else cringe when they look at their paystub and see how much is taken in taxes? If you're low income, you're good to go and you qualify for help. I know of some cases where these folks end up with more than the rest of us by the time you add up their benefits. Food stamps, assistance with rent and utilities and if their kids want college, all they have to do is study and get good grades. Of course, that's where the parents come in and teach their kids what is really important for their own future. Being poor does not stop anyone from having good priorities and a functional home.

The ones that have the toughest time paying high utility bills, food, taxes and getting to college are middle class. We don't earn enough to pay things easily and I have to be on the budget plan for heat. I also have to be careful with the budget. I was not able to pay the full college tuition and we're not poor enough for help, so we are up to our eyeballs in student loans. I was in the finance office at the college and I heard one woman in there being told that the parental responsibility after FAFSA paid would be zero! I found out that low income people qualify. The more kids in school, the better. Of course, that money runs out each semester so it's first come, first serve, but I should think those kids would also qualify for low interest student loans. If you don't mind working to pay them back, it's definitely an option. But so much better to use our tax dollars instead. After all, we aren't using our money wisely.

IMO

There are less than 0.001% on public assistance that end up with more and they are criminals. The rest is just nonsense, no one wants to live that way. I am sorry, the rest is just hateful nonsense. IMO

[watcher2005]

...


Let's bail out a few more banks, invest in a few more corporations with taxpayer monies and pay out a few more bonuses for bailed out corps...


That's our system.

[flareon]

Barack Obama said:




:rolleyes:

Many of us knew he was lying the minute his lips moved.

As he continues his mindless spending and puts forth costly plans, anyone with commonsense knows that the it can't all be dumped on the wealthy.

[flareon]

We can do it yes we can....:rolleyes:

His next town hall will start out with his infamous.. Let me be clear.. let me be perfectly clear... hmmmm wait need to get my teleprompter started up...then I can tell you what I need you to put in your pipe and smoke...

Thanks for the link and no I'm not surprised.. in the least. JMVHO


Let's bail out a few more banks, invest in a few more corporations with taxpayer monies and pay out a few more bonuses for bailed out corps...:thumbsup:

You are absolutely right. Since he is incapable of taking responsibility for anything, he will probably blame it all on the teleprompter saying that he didn't understand what he was saying.

Let's keep up the spending so we can keep dipping the ceiling lower.

[Brat2002]

There are less than 0.001% on public assistance that end up with more and they are criminals. The rest is just nonsense, no one wants to live that way. I am sorry, the rest is just hateful nonsense. IMO

Talking about actual problems some of us face and the reality of things is hateful? Do you have a link to support how many end up with more? I know quite a few around our small town that don't work at all, are completely able bodied and because they have children, they have a house, internet, car, utilities paid, cell phones and food. How are they doing this? I'll tell you. They go to every agency that offers help and they take all there is to get. My neighbors nephew just quit school last year at age 16. His mother was on welfare as far back as I can remember. Her mother was on welfare before that. The child saw no need to finish his last year of school. He did get a job, briefly, but said they expected too much from him and he quit after two weeks. All he had to do was bag groceries. His 16 year old girlfriend was pregnant and his other grandmother tried her hardest to get him to finish school or at least keep the job. No deal. Once the baby was born, they moved into an apartment and have done absolutely nothing since. I would think they would be in dire straits since some of you claim they don't get much help, yet they are always driving around in the car, always smoking and wandering aimlessly, hanging out with friends or whatever. They often come to a little restaurant and hang out all afternoon. They have all the necessities, like furniture, TV and computer. I know the grandmother who wanted him to work isn't helping them financially because she can't. I doubt if the girl's family can do much, as they are also on welfare. Yet, they seem to have it all. I want to know why there are so many people like this and just how they manage. And what is their incentive to give up a life of sleeping late and doing what they want all day to get up early and spend every day at work. Just how to we convince them that they will be better off? Years down the road, they will be exactly where they are now or worse, just like the generations before them. And some of the kids their own age will someday have a nice house and take fun vacations each year. Will the welfare kids think that their peers won the lottery or are being selfish and mean because they don't give them more money? Probably, if what I've read here is any indication. And all the while this new baby is growing up, the parents will leave it to society to worry about the child. I guess they have better things to do. Instead of giving them the message that they need to go out and do what they are perfectly capable of, we're sending the message that they can sit back and do nothing, be nothing, accomplish nothing and still enjoy life. While they think they're doing pretty great now, just wait a few years and they'll realize how miserable it is and then who will they blame? I mostly blame the system for encouraging this type of dependency. Kids are impressionable and when they come from a home where parents had no ambition, they are less likely to want to soar on their own and the familiar old government checks looks pretty darn good to them.

IMO

[Brat2002]

Which resentful people are those? Do you know about some special "herd" of people that are resentful of those who earn big money? I've earned huge money in my lifetime, and so did my husband, yet you want to accuse everyone who is NOT right wing of beingresentful. Do you see how ridiculous your OPINION is?

What I do resent about the Right Wing is NOT their income, but their "I've got mine, too bad about the rest" mentality.

IMO

I believe there are many who resent people who have done well. Like the bus loads of angry people who toured the neighborhoods of the CEOs and had some nasty things to say? Or maybe like the numerous posts right here accusing all wealthy Republicans of being greedy and selfish. I think that sounds resentful. Apparently, if you're not willing to split your income 50/50, then you are selfish.

[flareon]

Maybe so and maybe not - remember the "Graduated Income Tax"?

I'm sure Google would be more than happy to answer your other questions.

:smile:

Not only that but when you consider that 40% of the taxpayers don't pay anything (zip, nada, zero) taxes, it isn't hard to figure why the top 1% is paying so much more than the bottom 95%.

[LisaM22]

I think we need a flat tax, something like 35% with a 30k tax credit for everyone rich and poor a like, all income is considered income, ALL income is taxed

if your caught sending money overseas to avoid taxes, the government confiscates all your possessions and money and throws you in jail for a mandatory 5 years, just like if they caught you with drugs

[LisaM22]

Democrats wouldn't like that.

Most Democrats don't pay Federal Income tax.

I think a little creative Googling will substantiate this.

:smile:

I am a Democrat and I like it, so obviously not true, maybe some are against it, but I am all for it

[LisaM22]

Lisa, the flat tax is something you and I have agreed on right from the start, even though we disagree on other things. I think it's the only fair way to tax.
IMO

it definitely seems like the right way to go to me, and is indeed the only fair way, no caps, no income that doesn't get taxed as income, it's all the same tax for every dollar everyone makes

[flareon]

Or you could say some just don't know how to play the game. :)

But oh, how they try.

[theal3]

Democrats wouldn't like that.

Most Democrats don't pay Federal Income tax.

I think a little creative Googling will substantiate this.

:smile:

Most Democrats don't pay Federal Income Tax? Link to that fact please. or is that your opinion? Unbelievable! Please google and provide a valid link for that info.

[Carol25]

If you were rich and had to pay the high taxes proposed by Obama, would you place your money in foreign banks and live in another country at least 6 months out of the year to avoid those taxes?

It may sound appealing to many of them. What will that do to help us?

[flareon]

If you were rich and had to pay the high taxes proposed by Obama, would you place your money in foreign banks and live in another country at least 6 months out of the year to avoid those taxes?

It may sound appealing to many of them. What will that do to help us?

I would imagine most of them will meet with their tax advisers and figure out the best way to minimize tax and defer their income. After that I would imagine relocating would be one of the last options to look at.

[Barbara2]

I would imagine most of them will meet with their tax advisers and figure out the best way to minimize tax and defer their income. After that I would imagine relocating would be one of the last options to look at.

Probably something like this:

If you look at their publicized financial records you will find that their money is protected from the IRS through trusts or foundations. For example Sen. Kennedy has $500 million in trusts based in Jamaica, Cayman Islands, and the bulk of it in Fiji. The Kennedy oil company operating in five states, once called Kenn Oil, is now named The Arctic Oil Royalty Trust. George Soros "holds the bulk of his billions in tax-free overseas accounts."

http://fairtaxreform.blogspot.com/2005/12/wealthy-democrats-dont-pay-their-fair.html

[LisaM22]

Most Democrats don't pay Federal Income Tax? Link to that fact please. or is that your opinion? Unbelievable! Please google and provide a valid link for that info.

I am waiting for a link too, I am a democrat, I pay taxes :confused:

[flareon]

Probably something like this:



http://fairtaxreform.blogspot.com/2005/12/wealthy-democrats-dont-pay-their-fair.html

Anytime there is a new tax law, accountants and advisers work overtime to try to minimize the burden.

Back before the election, I know many people restructured their portfolios and assets in the event Obama was elected. It was funny too. It saved many of them from suffering the losses they would have during the downturn.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

QUOTE SNIPPED



What I do resent about the Right Wing is NOT their income, but their "I've got mine, too bad about the rest" mentality.

IMO

QUOTE snipped

If that were really the case-- why do Republicans give more money and time than Liberals. Your assetion is far from the truth.



Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism


http://richiericher.wordpress.com/2008/02/01/arthur-brooks-who-really-cares-the-surprising-truth-about-compassionate-conservatism/

This book was the focus of an ABC News 20/20 report entitled “Cheap in America” Who Gives and Who Doesn’t”


Sioux Falls is rural and religious; half of the population goes to church every week. People in San Francisco make much more money, are predominantly liberal, and just 14 percent of people in San Francisco attend church every week. Liberals are said to care more about helping the poor; so did people in San Francisco give more?
It turns out that this idea that liberals give more…is a myth. Of the top 25 states where people give an above average percent of their income, 24 were red states in the last presidential election.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

If you accuse the President of the USA of lying, remember recent history.
"Mushroom shaped cloud" George W Bush.

If you accuse the President of the USA of lying, at least you should be able to state the lie, as I just did.

"Transparency"

OK, true enough, I cannot vouch for any post-promise merriment, but I can vouch that it did not take all that long for the administration to emulate former Vice President Dick Cheney’s thoroughly castigated private meetings with top energy executives working with him on policy issues. The public did not learn what was said or who attended. Especially among liberals, suspicion of dastardliness was high.

The Obama version was to meet secretly with coal executives while devising the content of a cap-and-trade global-warming tax, explaining that presidential communications are privileged and did not fall under the Freedom of Information Act. Judges had differed with that idea, and so did Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics, which filed suit and, then, not too much later had reason to try again to get the names of people visiting the White House for sessions on the nation’s future.


http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/aug/02/jay-ambrose-seeing-through-obamas-promise-transpar/

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

O OK, those of us who live on Social Security will be taxed? Or only those of you who live on $199,000 and more a year?

Why is this link not filled with the facts and figures? NONE?? Oh wait.... you don't have any. OK, when you have the figures, come back at us with some of those..........otherwise, post all you want, you hate having Obama as President, start your next thread with that, not with a feckless factless editorial........OK?

In other words that you might understand, show me real numbers, not opinions of 5 people summarized in one sentence each.. can't you do that?

Read the arcile again-- no where does it say SS benificiaries would be taxed for this-- but the middle class would be.

The article was quite clear as to why the taking from the rich and giving to the poor AND taking from the rich to make the decifit smaller would not work.

[FurthurBB]

Talking about actual problems some of us face and the reality of things is hateful? Do you have a link to support how many end up with more? I know quite a few around our small town that don't work at all, are completely able bodied and because they have children, they have a house, internet, car, utilities paid, cell phones and food. How are they doing this? I'll tell you. They go to every agency that offers help and they take all there is to get. My neighbors nephew just quit school last year at age 16. His mother was on welfare as far back as I can remember. Her mother was on welfare before that. The child saw no need to finish his last year of school. He did get a job, briefly, but said they expected too much from him and he quit after two weeks. All he had to do was bag groceries. His 16 year old girlfriend was pregnant and his other grandmother tried her hardest to get him to finish school or at least keep the job. No deal. Once the baby was born, they moved into an apartment and have done absolutely nothing since. I would think they would be in dire straits since some of you claim they don't get much help, yet they are always driving around in the car, always smoking and wandering aimlessly, hanging out with friends or whatever. They often come to a little restaurant and hang out all afternoon. They have all the necessities, like furniture, TV and computer. I know the grandmother who wanted him to work isn't helping them financially because she can't. I doubt if the girl's family can do much, as they are also on welfare. Yet, they seem to have it all. I want to know why there are so many people like this and just how they manage. And what is their incentive to give up a life of sleeping late and doing what they want all day to get up early and spend every day at work. Just how to we convince them that they will be better off? Years down the road, they will be exactly where they are now or worse, just like the generations before them. And some of the kids their own age will someday have a nice house and take fun vacations each year. Will the welfare kids think that their peers won the lottery or are being selfish and mean because they don't give them more money? Probably, if what I've read here is any indication. And all the while this new baby is growing up, the parents will leave it to society to worry about the child. I guess they have better things to do. Instead of giving them the message that they need to go out and do what they are perfectly capable of, we're sending the message that they can sit back and do nothing, be nothing, accomplish nothing and still enjoy life. While they think they're doing pretty great now, just wait a few years and they'll realize how miserable it is and then who will they blame? I mostly blame the system for encouraging this type of dependency. Kids are impressionable and when they come from a home where parents had no ambition, they are less likely to want to soar on their own and the familiar old government checks looks pretty darn good to them.

IMO


I am sorry, but, I do not believe this is at all the case. You are not talking about a problem you are having, you are associating it with other people. Granted I have never personally know what it is like to be poor or even middle class, but, I have worked with underpriviliged children and women on welfare, not to mention I teach graduate school classes and have only once or twice seen anything like what you are talking about. Also, if all these welfare mothers are getting so much money for their children to go to university, I guess none of them happen to be interested in microbiology. Now, I know that welfare can become a way of life, but, not because it looks good to them, because they see no way out. How about we all thank our lucky stars that we were not born into that life. Stop looking at someone else's piece of the pie, because very rarely will it be any sweeter than yours. IMO

[FurthurBB]

Not only that but when you consider that 40% of the taxpayers don't pay anything (zip, nada, zero) taxes, it isn't hard to figure why the top 1% is paying so much more than the bottom 95%.


Everyone pays taxes, even if they get it all back at the end of the year. IMO

[FurthurBB]

Most Democrats don't pay Federal Income Tax? Link to that fact please. or is that your opinion? Unbelievable! Please google and provide a valid link for that info.


I know more than a few Dems who are the top 1%, how about most of Hollywood. How about Jewish people. The people on here complaining about this are barely middle class. IMO

[ABC]

LINK
(http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/08/geithner-wont-rule-out-new-taxes-for-middle-class.html)



Surprise, Surprise!! :rolleyes:
:ohmy: Well, of course. I'm not surprised.

[Circe]

I am sorry, but, I do not believe this is at all the case. You are not talking about a problem you are having, you are associating it with other people. Granted I have never personally know what it is like to be poor or even middle class, but, I have worked with underpriviliged children and women on welfare, not to mention I teach graduate school classes and have only once or twice seen anything like what you are talking about. Also, if all these welfare mothers are getting so much money for their children to go to university, I guess none of them happen to be interested in microbiology. Now, I know that welfare can become a way of life, but, not because it looks good to them, because they see no way out. How about we all thank our lucky stars that we were not born into that life. Stop looking at someone else's piece of the pie, because very rarely will it be any sweeter than yours. IMO

Just a personal observation, as someone who has been on welfare, so has seen it from the inside........there are times when it seems like the whole system is geared towards keeping you on welfare. JMO, of course.

[IaNsSyAlNuE]

Everyone pays taxes, even if they get it all back at the end of the year. IMO


Not exactly true. Those who do not report and those who make fewer than 5,700 dollars do not pay federal income tax.

Not to mention Re Your scenario above) not only do they get it all back at the end of the year -- they also may get EIC, ACC, and a plethora of other credits which amount to a return double or even triple what they paid and got back.


And Illegal aliens do not pay taxes if they are working off the books and or with fake papers.

[flareon]

Not exactly true. Those who do not report and those who make fewer than 5,700 dollars do not pay federal income tax.

Not to mention Re Your scenario above) not only do they get it all back at the end of the year -- they also may get EIC, ACC, and a plethora of other credits which amount to a return double or even triple what they paid and got back.


And Illegal aliens do not pay taxes if they are working off the books and or with fake papers.

You're exactly right. They set their withholding allowances so there are no taxes taken out with the exception of FICA. They also can do advanced EIC and have that extra money included in their net pay each period. At the end of the year, then they would get the balance of their EIC and additional child credit if they are eligible.