8/3 to

[moonlite]

Here is Victoria (Tori) Elizabeth Marie Stafford's obituary which is posted as "August 1, 2009" (tomorrow's date).

http://cgi.bowesonline.com/pedro.php?id=306&x=obituaries&xid=56523#56523

"STAFFORD, Victoria "Tori" Elizabeth Marie - An angel taken from her family and community on April 8, 2009 at the age of 8 years old. Tori will be forever missed by her father Rodney Stafford (Whitney E. Roth) and lovingly remembered by her mother Tara McDonald and her husband James Goris. Loved Sissy of Daryn "Duder" Stafford. Beloved granddaughter of Linda Winters and her late husband Robert (2007), Jim and Sharon McDonald, Doreen Graichen, Mark Stafford and Darlene and Dave Goris and great granddaughter of Frank Webb. Loved niece of John McDonald (Laurel), Rob Stafford, Randi Millen (Steve), Rebecca Nichols (Nathan), Russell Edmonds (Natasha) Matthew Stafford and Jennifer Goris. Special goddaughter to Shawn and Barb Derbowka. Predeceased by her uncle Scott McDonald (2008). Tori was a student at Oliver Stephens Public School and attended Sunday School at College Ave. Church in Woodstock. She will be missed by all who knew her and remembered by the many hearts and minds of her local, national and world wide community. A private family service was held at the Longworth Funeral Home, Woodstock, 519-539-0004. Contributions in memory of Tori may be made to Child Find Canada and may be arranged at www.longworthfuneralhome.com
Posted on 2009-08-01"

BBM - I am presuming the private service has now taken place.

May Tori rest in peace and love eternally! :wub:And may all her loved ones, especially her brave big brother, Daryn :wub:, be filled with happy and enduring memories of their beloved little one, Tori!:wub:

Greetings'
Hope4Tori"

Thanks for posting this and the link. May Tori rest in peace!!!

Hopefully' There will be justice for Tori!!!

Moonlite

[Jester]

A few more articles about the memorial and bike trip

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Tori+Stafford+father+plans+fundraiser+bike+ride+ac ross+Canada/1858602/story.html

[north-eh]

Hi everyone. I'm just passing through to say "hi" and to say that I still think of Victoria and pray to God there is truly justice for this prescious child.
For Victoria......:rose:
N

[moonlite]

Hi everyone. I'm just passing through to say "hi" and to say that I still think of Victoria and pray to God there is truly justice for this prescious child.
For Victoria......:rose:
N

Greetings"
North-eh'

I know what you mean thinking of Lil Tori!!! Today' I was thinking of when Tori said(Love your enemies) I know I did not spell it like she did!!

Moonlite

[moonlite]

A few more articles about the memorial and bike trip

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Tori+Stafford+father+plans+fundraiser+bike+ride+ac ross+Canada/1858602/story.html

Greetings'

Jester'

Thanks for posting this update!! Tori's dad is not biking alone is he?

Has Tara done anything in Tori's memory?

Moonlite

[Jester]

Greetings'

Jester'

Thanks for posting this update!! Tori's dad is not biking alone is he?

Has Tara done anything in Tori's memory?

Moonlite

You're welcome. I think he's biking alone. I haven't read anything about Tara's intentions.

I also happened to be talking with someone today who was able to shed some light on murder charges and sentences. Even though second degree murder stipulates that no parole be given until after 10 years, the length of time before someone is eligible for parole is up to the Judge. That is, even for a 2nd degree conviction, the Judge can stipulate 12 years, 14 years, or even 25 years, before a convict is eligible to apply for parole ... and in fact any convicted murderer is on parole for the remainder of their life. For example, Terri-Lynne could have her charges reduced to second degree, but that doesn't mean her parole eligibility is automatically 10 years. First degree murder is minimum 25 years before parole eligibility, but that could be lengthened. Also, there is no guarantee that applying for parole means it will be granted.

[moonlite]

You're welcome. I think he's biking alone. I haven't read anything about Tara's intentions.

I also happened to be talking with someone today who was able to shed some light on murder charges and sentences. Even though second degree murder stipulates that no parole be given until after 10 years, the length of time before someone is eligible for parole is up to the Judge. That is, even for a 2nd degree conviction, the Judge can stipulate 12 years, 14 years, or even 25 years, before a convict is eligible to apply for parole ... and in fact any convicted murderer is on parole for the remainder of their life. For example, Terri-Lynne could have her charges reduced to second degree, but that doesn't mean her parole eligibility is automatically 10 years. First degree murder is minimum 25 years before parole eligibility, but that could be lengthened. Also, there is no guarantee that applying for parole means it will be granted.

Greetings"
Jester"

Thanks for the clarification. I think no way or how should TLM get 2nd degree murder.IMO I mean it should be 1st degree for both TLM & MR and nothing less. Tori sure in the heck is not going to get a second chance at anything and these punks should not either!!

I really hope the prosecutors will not even consider the thought of a lesser charge.IMO Tori deserves justice with both perps having the title of 1st degree child murders & rapist!!

Moonlite

[Amy]

Greetings"
Jester"

Thanks for the clarification. I think no way or how should TLM get 2nd degree murder.IMO I mean it should be 1st degree for both TLM & MR and nothing less. Tori sure in the heck is not going to get a second chance at anything and these punks should not either!!

I really hope the prosecutors will not even consider the thought of a lesser charge.IMO Tori deserves justice with both perps having the title of 1st degree child murders & rapist!!

Moonlite

I agree. It isn't like either of them seem to have been the most law-abiding, stalwart citizens. In fact, seems they had been living on the shady side of the law. Whether or not they have had previous convictions against them shouldn't be considered, either. This murder in and of itself is heinous enough to require 1st degree, and I sure hope that if they live long enough for a chance @ parole, that they never get it.

[n/t]

When are they expected to appear in court? Anybody remember? I know it's this month but can't remember the dates. Been following so many cases that I lost track.

o/t a mom who allegedly murdered her 2 girls in Montreal in March will be in court to face charges on Aug 18th. Not sure if any of you know about the case. Anyway, this one is really close to home in more ways than one. I am just heartbroken and will never understand why she did it. Never. :crying:

[moonlite]

When are they expected to appear in court? Anybody remember? I know it's this month but can't remember the dates. Been following so many cases that I lost track.

o/t a mom who allegedly murdered her 2 girls in Montreal in March will be in court to face charges on Aug 18th. Not sure if any of you know about the case. Anyway, this one is really close to home in more ways than one. I am just heartbroken and will never understand why she did it. Never. :crying:

Greetings"
N/T

I think one of the court dates is the 12th or 13th. I can't remember which one either. I know what you mean about senseless murder of a child from a parent. We have the case down here in Boise and it is heartbreaking.

Hoping Lil Tori gets justice!!

Moonlite

[Jester]

Greetings"
Jester"

Thanks for the clarification. I think no way or how should TLM get 2nd degree murder.IMO I mean it should be 1st degree for both TLM & MR and nothing less. Tori sure in the heck is not going to get a second chance at anything and these punks should not either!!

I really hope the prosecutors will not even consider the thought of a lesser charge.IMO Tori deserves justice with both perps having the title of 1st degree child murders & rapist!!

Moonlite

There's a small upside to reducing the charges to 2nd degree - but it's a big gamble in terms of what the Judge will decide. With a second degree conviction, there is pretty much no chance of appeal, and a sentence of 25 years before being eligible for parole is possible - if the Judge decides that. However, even if the prosecution and defense agree on 25 years before parole, the Judge doesn't have to go along with it.

Conversely, in my opinion, there is absolutely no reason for the prosecution to make a deal ... so they should shut down the defense lawyer's request to meet and be done with it.

[gordon24fan]

When are they expected to appear in court? Anybody remember? I know it's this month but can't remember the dates. Been following so many cases that I lost track.

o/t a mom who allegedly murdered her 2 girls in Montreal in March will be in court to face charges on Aug 18th. Not sure if any of you know about the case. Anyway, this one is really close to home in more ways than one. I am just heartbroken and will never understand why she did it. Never. :crying:

I am aware of this case case im in Montreal, and that women is/was a customer of ours so was her husband who i still on the run, but i never heard, was it ever proven that she did murder them?

[Gugug]

With court appearances pending, this article caught my eye:

http://www.theprovince.com/health/sexually+assaulted+hitchhiker+declared+dangerous+o ffender/1866728/story.html

B.C. man who sexually assaulted hitchhiker declared dangerous offender


By Keith Fraser, The Province
August 6, 2009



VANCOUVER — A northern B.C. man who pleaded guilty to unlawfully confining, choking and then sexually assaulting a teenage hitchhiker has been declared a dangerous offender.

In imposing sentence on Daniel Joseph Bruneau, B.C. Supreme Court Madam Justice Janet Sinclair Prowse said she was satisfied there was evidence that the accused was a dangerous offender and that he had no reasonable prospect of being controlled in the community.

“Given these decisions, I impose upon you a jail sentence of an indefinite period.”

Bruneau, 48, a father of two, sat quietly in the prisoner’s dock during the sentencing Thursday in a Vancouver courtroom.

He’d earlier confessed that in August 2007 he had picked up the 18-year-old girl while she was hitchhiking and had taken her back to his residence in Kitwanga, a small village located between Terrace and Smithers. After plying her with alcohol, the former garbage-dump employee choked her and brought her to the ground before slapping handcuffs on her and then dragging her into his bedroom where he sexually assaulted her.

The judge, who said she will release her full written reasons at a later date, took into account Bruneau’s past criminal record, which included a manslaughter conviction and a prior sexual assault.

In 1990, he was sentenced to three years and six months in prison for choking to death a teenaged girl, who he was angry at because she was in the midst of her menstrual cycle. The body of Crystal Hogg, 17, was found near the Terrace airport. Initially charged with second-degree murder, Bruneau claimed the choking was accidental.

Several months later, he was sentenced to an additional six months in jail for sexually assaulting a 10-year-old girl while she was walking home from school. The manslaughter happened in 1988 and the sex assault dated back to 1986. The two sentences were served consecutively.

The judge told Bruneau that, while the dangerous offender designation carries an indeterminate period of incarceration, it doesn’t mean he’ll be in prison the rest of his life.

She noted that the National Parole Board must do periodic reviews, with the first one occurring after he’s served seven years in prison, then every two years.

The judge also ordered Bruneau to comply with the sex-offender registry and provide a DNA sample. RCMP have ruled out Bruneau as a suspect in connection with the missing women along Highway 16, now called the Highway of Tears.

E-mail: kfraser@theprovince.com
© Copyright (c) The Province

[Amy]

With court appearances pending, this article caught my eye:

http://www.theprovince.com/health/sexually+assaulted+hitchhiker+declared+dangerous+o ffender/1866728/story.html

B.C. man who sexually assaulted hitchhiker declared dangerous offender


By Keith Fraser, The Province
August 6, 2009



VANCOUVER — A northern B.C. man who pleaded guilty to unlawfully confining, choking and then sexually assaulting a teenage hitchhiker has been declared a dangerous offender.

In imposing sentence on Daniel Joseph Bruneau, B.C. Supreme Court Madam Justice Janet Sinclair Prowse said she was satisfied there was evidence that the accused was a dangerous offender and that he had no reasonable prospect of being controlled in the community.

“Given these decisions, I impose upon you a jail sentence of an indefinite period.”

Bruneau, 48, a father of two, sat quietly in the prisoner’s dock during the sentencing Thursday in a Vancouver courtroom.

He’d earlier confessed that in August 2007 he had picked up the 18-year-old girl while she was hitchhiking and had taken her back to his residence in Kitwanga, a small village located between Terrace and Smithers. After plying her with alcohol, the former garbage-dump employee choked her and brought her to the ground before slapping handcuffs on her and then dragging her into his bedroom where he sexually assaulted her.

The judge, who said she will release her full written reasons at a later date, took into account Bruneau’s past criminal record, which included a manslaughter conviction and a prior sexual assault.

In 1990, he was sentenced to three years and six months in prison for choking to death a teenaged girl, who he was angry at because she was in the midst of her menstrual cycle. The body of Crystal Hogg, 17, was found near the Terrace airport. Initially charged with second-degree murder, Bruneau claimed the choking was accidental.

Several months later, he was sentenced to an additional six months in jail for sexually assaulting a 10-year-old girl while she was walking home from school. The manslaughter happened in 1988 and the sex assault dated back to 1986. The two sentences were served consecutively.

The judge told Bruneau that, while the dangerous offender designation carries an indeterminate period of incarceration, it doesn’t mean he’ll be in prison the rest of his life.

She noted that the National Parole Board must do periodic reviews, with the first one occurring after he’s served seven years in prison, then every two years.

The judge also ordered Bruneau to comply with the sex-offender registry and provide a DNA sample. RCMP have ruled out Bruneau as a suspect in connection with the missing women along Highway 16, now called the Highway of Tears.

E-mail: kfraser@theprovince.com
© Copyright (c) The Province

Bolding mine.

But, it should, especially with HIS history. Does the judge think that he will benefit from any sex offender's programs? Well, I doubt that anything will help him change his mind set and behaviours. Chokes a girl to death because she is on her period? FGS!!!! And, assaulting a 10 y/o girl? He should never have been released after these 2 crimes, ever. Too bad he was ever out and able to continue his sexual assaults on women and girls. :cursing:

[Gugug]

Bolding mine.

But, it should, especially with HIS history. Does the judge think that he will benefit from any sex offender's programs? Well, I doubt that anything will help him change his mind set and behaviours. Chokes a girl to death because she is on her period? FGS!!!! And, assaulting a 10 y/o girl? He should never have been released after these 2 crimes, ever. Too bad he was ever out and able to continue his sexual assaults on women and girls. :cursing:

So many disturbing things about that one. He claimed the girl's death was an accident, so he served a few years for her death. I wonder how many other incidents were not reported to the police? What about his two children?

I wonder why the police are convinced that this person had nothing to do with the numerous murders of girls and young women along the Highway of Tears? Are they taking his word for it? Given that some of the victims have never been found, and disappeared in the area where this man lived, how can they know for sure?

[moonlite]

In a comment on an article about the findings in Mount Forest, a presumably local person mentioned MR having gone to highschool in Palmerston. It referred to the article www.theobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1664427

MR must have been very familiar with the area. Makes me wonder about the extent of premeditation again. Did they take poor Tori out there well knowing that only the occasional horse buggy might come by? Was it all planned out in detail? Horrible to think about it.

"Highway 6 and 89 cross in Mt Forest. The road they are talking about--if you go down 89 towards Conn it is the second corner on the right and if you follow the road 6th conc now called parkland road it come out on Hwy6, It is a short road which is more or less a back alley road to take a short cut across from 6 to 89 and miss the stoplight at 6 and 89. Now what I cant figure out is the directions that McLintic gave to the OPP. She said it was between Fergus and Guelph-a distance of about 50 miles south of Mt Forest on the #6. When you come into Mt Forest as there are two main highways cross in Mt Forest there are huge signs that say Mt Forest not to mention the small signs saying you are approaching Mt Forest.
It is indeed a very sad thing that someone never checked that road and the back road that leads off it where Tori's body was found especially when so many people were looking and it was on the news every day.
I even told them to search farther north as that is where the stones are in piles north of Fergus and thru Mt Forest to Owen Sound. It was customary in the olden days for the Scots to pile the stones in the corner of a field and later build a house with them or a shed. Most of the farms have been bought by the mennonite people which speak Pennsylvania Dutch, cant own a car, or a television etc. This is no reason however that someone else shouldnt have searched.
On top of all this Michael Rafferty went to high school at Palmerston, lived at Guelph and Mississauga so he knew the area well as Palmerston was very close." (snipped)

Greetings'
ThinkTank'

Thanks for posting this link. I agree' and I hope this does give the prosecutors a little bit more ammunition regarding premeditation. Have you heard if the police found the back seat yet? I know TLM suppose to have her first court appearance sometime this week? Is this court appearance her plea?

Moonlite

[Gugug]

Wise words:

http://www.thespec.com/article/605062

[Gugug]

http://www.cjcsradio.com/news/index.php:

McClintic Court Date - Wed. August 12 10:49 am
Terri-Lynne McClintic has made another appearance in court - to answer to charges of kidnapping and murder in the death of eight-year-old Tori Stafford. She appeared in a Woodstock court via a video link and a new court date was set for October 1st. Her lawyer says there is a "substantial amount of evidence" to review before the case goes any further. This was the first court appearance for McClintic since Tori's remains were found in a field near Mount Forest on July 19th. Her father, Rodney Stafford, is currently on a bicycle ride to Alberta to pay tribute to his daughter and to raise funds for Child Find Ontario.

[moonlite]

http://www.cjcsradio.com/news/index.php:

McClintic Court Date - Wed. August 12 10:49 am
Terri-Lynne McClintic has made another appearance in court - to answer to charges of kidnapping and murder in the death of eight-year-old Tori Stafford. She appeared in a Woodstock court via a video link and a new court date was set for October 1st. Her lawyer says there is a "substantial amount of evidence" to review before the case goes any further. This was the first court appearance for McClintic since Tori's remains were found in a field near Mount Forest on July 19th. Her father, Rodney Stafford, is currently on a bicycle ride to Alberta to pay tribute to his daughter and to raise funds for Child Find Ontario.

Greetings"
Gugug"

Thanks for posting the links. Do you know if TLM has enetered a plea yet? Was today's hearing just to update the judge on where the attorney's are at in the case?

Moonlite

[Jester]

Regarding "dangerous offender" status, Terry Driver murdered one girl in Abbotsford, BC, attempted to murder another, and taunted the community after the murder. He was declared a dangerous offender based on the one murder, and the other factors of injuring another woman, and taunting. There was no prior criminal record.

This, to me, means that Terri-Lynn and/or Michael Rafferty could be declared dangerous offenders.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/1999/11/29/bc_driver991129.html

[n/t]

Regarding "dangerous offender" status, Terry Driver murdered one girl in Abbotsford, BC, attempted to murder another, and taunted the community after the murder. He was declared a dangerous offender based on the one murder, and the other factors of injuring another woman, and taunting. There was no prior criminal record.

This, to me, means that Terri-Lynn and/or Michael Rafferty could be declared dangerous offenders.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/1999/11/29/bc_driver991129.html

I hope you're right, Jester. A possible plea deal for TLM still scares me.

[Gugug]

Greetings"
Gugug"

Thanks for posting the links. Do you know if TLM has enetered a plea yet? Was today's hearing just to update the judge on where the attorney's are at in the case?

Moonlite

No, she has not entered a plea:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1698406

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090812/mclintic_court_090812/20090812/?hub=TorontoNewHome

[moonlite]

No, she has not entered a plea:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1698406

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090812/mclintic_court_090812/20090812/?hub=TorontoNewHome

Greetings'
Gugug'

Thanks for the update!! I can just imagine what type of evidence or disclosure the police have collected. I do think the police have done a good job with Tori's case so far.IMO I'm glad at least right now there is no plea deal of a lesser charge.

Hoping there will be justice for Lil Tori!!

[Gugug]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/08/14/10463646.html

Another kiddie porn case in the London-Woodstock area FYI.

[Gugug]

No word of an Amber Alert on this one:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Deer+police+investigating+reports+child+abduction/1894533/story.html

[Gugug]

It is rare, but plea bargains can be overturned:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Alberta+court+upholds+revoking+plea+bargain/1892659/story.html

[Gugug]

Organized crime continues to thrive:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1700620

[Gugug]

The problem of stolen copper wire plagues communities across the country, and those along Highway 401 are seeing a lot of this:

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:Inpoxg5XrXwJ:twp.puslinch.on.ca/Uploads/Meetings/Files/Minutes/245_2009%252001%252028%2520Minutes.pdf+puslinch+%2 B+copper+wire&hl=en&gl=ca

Meanwhile, on April 11, 2009, the Guelph Mercury reported a theft of copper wire from a south-side business in week prior.

Smaller thefts are often the work of addicts needing cash for a fix. Neither construction sites nor public utilities are exempt. Rural and urban communities are both targets.

[Gugug]

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Statement+from+John+Fulton+family/1906471/story.html

[Gugug]

I'd be curious to know what doctor_J and others familiar with such things have to say:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/Heroin+better+addicts+recovery+Study/1909940/story.html

[Gugug]

The problem of stolen copper wire plagues communities across the country, and those along Highway 401 are seeing a lot of this:

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:Inpoxg5XrXwJ:twp.puslinch.on.ca/Uploads/Meetings/Files/Minutes/245_2009%252001%252028%2520Minutes.pdf+puslinch+%2 B+copper+wire&hl=en&gl=ca

Meanwhile, on April 11, 2009, the Guelph Mercury reported a theft of copper wire from a south-side business in week prior.

Smaller thefts are often the work of addicts needing cash for a fix. Neither construction sites nor public utilities are exempt. Rural and urban communities are both targets.

Forgot to mention that this business was just down the road from a car wash, for what it's worth.

[Gugug]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1710448

[doctor_J]

I'd be curious to know what doctor_J and others familiar with such things have to say:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/Heroin+better+addicts+recovery+Study/1909940/story.html

The information in that report made no sense to me. I get the NEJM so I will look for the article that presents the study and see if I can sort out what they're trying to prove.

[Gugug]

Rodney's in Manitoba now:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/dad-cycling-country-for-charity-56314947.html

Dad cycling country for charity
Father of slain girl helping Child Find

By: Bruce Owen

31/08/2009 1:00 AM

HIS little girl is bringing some of the best weather Manitoba will see all summer. And because of that, Rodney Stafford could cycle across the province without getting drenched.

"It's my daughter helping everybody out and helping me get through this," Stafford said Sunday evening from Ste. Anne, where he spent the night before cycling into Winnipeg this morning.

Stafford, whose daughter Victoria (Tori) Stafford was abducted and killed April 8 as she walked home from her Woodstock, Ont., school, is using his 3,400-kilometre Kilometres For Kids ride to raise money and awareness for Child Find.

So far he's raised about $15,000 in donations for the charity. His journey started Aug. 5 from his home in Woodstock.

Stafford, 34, will ride down the Trans-Canada Highway and hit Winnipeg's outskirts at about 10:30 a.m. He'll be escorted from there by officers with the Winnipeg Police Service's bicycle patrol unit to the Inn At The Forks.

They should arrive at about noon, and the public is encouraged to come out.

Stafford, who, before his trip began, had no cycling experience, joked he should have no problem keeping up with the WPS bike unit.

"I have a better bike," Stafford said. "Going through northern Ontario my legs might be a little bit stronger than theirs right now."

He said he will remain in the city Tuesday raising money at a local Wal-Mart. He'll leave Wednesday to continue west.

The forecast calls for sunny skies and temperatures in the high 20s all week.

Stafford ends his trip in Edmonton where his daughter visited a favourite aunt last year. He'll release a single purple (her favourite colour) balloon from a mountain near Jasper as a way to say goodbye to his daughter. He'll also auction off his bike for the fundraiser.

Stafford has paid for the trip on his own with a few donations from businesses.

A website, www.eye-zon.com, has also provided a GPS transmitter so his progress can be tracked online. There is also a Facebook page called Rodney Stafford's Ride For Tori.

Stafford said he couldn't pedal from Kenora to Manitoba because of safety reasons. A decision was made to ride in the van to Ste. Anne because traffic on the Trans-Canada was so heavy.

"Without a police escort there was no way I could do it," he said. "The traffic... wouldn't even notice I was there. There was a number of close calls."

Police discovered Tori's remains on July 19 in a rural area north of Toronto. Two residents of Woodstock, which is 125 km southwest of Toronto, are in custody.

Michael Thomas Rafferty, 28, and Terri-Lynne McClintic, 18, are charged with kidnapping and first-degree murder in the girl's death.

bruce.owen@freepress.mb.ca

Republished from the Winnipeg Free Press print edition August 31, 2009 B1

[moonlite]

Rodney's in Manitoba now:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/dad-cycling-country-for-charity-56314947.html

Dad cycling country for charity
Father of slain girl helping Child Find

By: Bruce Owen

31/08/2009 1:00 AM

HIS little girl is bringing some of the best weather Manitoba will see all summer. And because of that, Rodney Stafford could cycle across the province without getting drenched.

"It's my daughter helping everybody out and helping me get through this," Stafford said Sunday evening from Ste. Anne, where he spent the night before cycling into Winnipeg this morning.

Stafford, whose daughter Victoria (Tori) Stafford was abducted and killed April 8 as she walked home from her Woodstock, Ont., school, is using his 3,400-kilometre Kilometres For Kids ride to raise money and awareness for Child Find.

So far he's raised about $15,000 in donations for the charity. His journey started Aug. 5 from his home in Woodstock.

Stafford, 34, will ride down the Trans-Canada Highway and hit Winnipeg's outskirts at about 10:30 a.m. He'll be escorted from there by officers with the Winnipeg Police Service's bicycle patrol unit to the Inn At The Forks.

They should arrive at about noon, and the public is encouraged to come out.

Stafford, who, before his trip began, had no cycling experience, joked he should have no problem keeping up with the WPS bike unit.

"I have a better bike," Stafford said. "Going through northern Ontario my legs might be a little bit stronger than theirs right now."

He said he will remain in the city Tuesday raising money at a local Wal-Mart. He'll leave Wednesday to continue west.

The forecast calls for sunny skies and temperatures in the high 20s all week.

Stafford ends his trip in Edmonton where his daughter visited a favourite aunt last year. He'll release a single purple (her favourite colour) balloon from a mountain near Jasper as a way to say goodbye to his daughter. He'll also auction off his bike for the fundraiser.

Stafford has paid for the trip on his own with a few donations from businesses.

A website, www.eye-zon.com, has also provided a GPS transmitter so his progress can be tracked online. There is also a Facebook page called Rodney Stafford's Ride For Tori.

Stafford said he couldn't pedal from Kenora to Manitoba because of safety reasons. A decision was made to ride in the van to Ste. Anne because traffic on the Trans-Canada was so heavy.

"Without a police escort there was no way I could do it," he said. "The traffic... wouldn't even notice I was there. There was a number of close calls."

Police discovered Tori's remains on July 19 in a rural area north of Toronto. Two residents of Woodstock, which is 125 km southwest of Toronto, are in custody.

Michael Thomas Rafferty, 28, and Terri-Lynne McClintic, 18, are charged with kidnapping and first-degree murder in the girl's death.

bruce.owen@freepress.mb.ca

Republished from the Winnipeg Free Press print edition August 31, 2009 B1

Greetings"
Gugug"

Thanks for the update!! Sounds like Rodney is really doing something positive in remembrance of Tori. I hope he continues his work with Child find in the future. Do you know if Tara has done anything? Hows Tori's brother doing? I was wondering if Tara had a relapse as there appears to be no information coming from her?

Moonlite

[moonlite]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1710448



Greetings"
Gugug"

I'm just getting caught up reading here!! So MR' is pleading not guilty? I'm wondering what kind of strategy his lawyer going to use to support that claim? I'm wondering if he is going to blame it all on TLM? I'm also wondering about the DNA evidence? I mean I really hope the police have some DNA or something to nail his hinney.

Moonlite

[Gugug]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1732417

Meanwhile, Rodney's journey continues. He's near Regina:

http://www.eye-zon.com/EyezonBlack20090213/Portal/kilometres_for_kids.php

[kelloggirl]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1732417

Meanwhile, Rodney's journey continues. He's near Regina:

http://www.eye-zon.com/EyezonBlack20090213/Portal/kilometres_for_kids.php

Thanks for the updates, Gugug. I think it makes sense for Daryn and Tara to move away, especially since Daryn would have to make the same walk and relive the same path from which Tori was abducted. A fresh start will hopefully be a good thing for all.

Now that Tori's abductors and murderers have been put behind bars, I wonder if we will ever learn the truth of the limousine ride. Did it really happen? Was law enforcement behind it? Any news/gossip on this? In the large scheme of things, it is of course, unimportant, but I admit it still puzzles me to this day.

[moonlite]

I am sure he will aim for a lesser charge, Moonlite, presenting himself as a victim of TLM`s influence or a victim of mind altering drugs, if that will make a difference at all. Let`s hope all the evidence is self-evident.

Speaking of evidence, has the backseat been found yet?
There is an auto recycler in Fergus, conveniently located in continuation of Jones Baseline. The intersection of Jones Baseline and Eighth Line, close to Wellington Rd, was where police removed the dumpster with items of interest.

Greetings"
ThinkTank'

I don't recall that the back seat has been found. I really hope the police have enough evidence to put TLM & MR away for a very long time.
I'm wondering if the car had any type of DNA evidence that could be detected. Has anything more been said about the pictures?

Hoping for Justice for Tori.

Moonlite

[Gugug]

Here's how Oxycontin found its way to the streets:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Calgary+pharmacist+guilty+trafficking+painkillers/1977732/story.html

[Gugug]

And for each little handfull of pills in the market another little crime is committed, another poor soul is getting addicted, another crook getting a bit richer and once in a while a victim is a child.

Pharmacists in Alberta want greater prescribing powers, and continue to lobby for it. The pharmacist's own addiction led him to this: a gambling addiction.

On another note, human trafficking made headlines today, too:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Edmonton+human+trafficking+charges/1979578/story.html

Further background:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/tourists+target+Canada+report/1701338/story.html

[moonlite]

And for each little handfull of pills in the market another little crime is committed, another poor soul is getting addicted, another crook getting a bit richer and once in a while a victim is a child.

Greetings'
ThinkTank"

Thanks for the link. I agree with you. Where I live Inland Northwest, people have been robbing pharmacies to get the drug. I wonder if this helps Tara to stay clean? I mean knowing all that we do about Tori's case.

Moonlite

[Gugug]

Doctors are part of the problem:

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0012610#SEC788101

[Gugug]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2009/09/08/sk-stafford-bike-campaign.html

Rodney has a cycling companion, a broken-hearted father himself.

This is a case I mentioned a long time ago. The offender in question is a habitual pedophile. I am glad Rodney and the anonymous father are able to spend some time together. I think there will be some healing here.

[Gugug]

This is from a book "Predators" by Anna C. Salter Ph.D. She is giving some great and disturbing insight into the mind of predators and the different motivations they have.

Here are a few quotes:
"You can`t incarcerate fantasies. (snipped) He gets three meals a day. He gets to fantasize all he wants to about what he wants to do, and when he gets out, he`s going to carry that out. Because as a man thinks, he does."

Paraphrased from her book, there are child molesters who are either simply attracted to children or others that are psychotic and feel entitled, yet others too timid to obtain intimacy from adults.
Then there are female offenders who can be related or not and either be coerced into molestation by a partner or have sadistic impulses themselves.
There are opportunistic rapists who take the opportunity while committing another crime. There are compulsive rapists who do it out of anger and get a thrill out of the violence committed.
Then there is plain distorted thinking of being entitled to whatever the fantasies are producing in a rapists mind. Entitlement with no empathy for the victim.
"Sadists are the sex offenders we fear the most, and rightly so. The acts they commit are brutal beyond description, inhumane in the true sense of the word, and senselesss to those without their particular type of hunger. (snipped) Sadists hurt people for the sexual thrill it gives them. (snipped) Sadism looks and sounds like a drug addiction, albeit an internal one (snipped), these men may have learned to trigger internal chemicals through violent fantasy and eventually through violent behavior."

Combine this with what I wrote earlier, that Oxy use numbs down sexual desires with the effect of seeking higher and higher thrills, it just makes me wish we never learn the full truth about Tori`s fate.

MR's lawyer has made clear his intention to plead not guilty. A guilty plea would keep this information from coming forward in a trial.

[moonlite]

Greetings"
ThinkTank' & Gugug"

I really hope the police have a rock solid case. I have a feeling MR & TLM will be pointing fingers at each other. If the prosecutor is any good he/she can use that to their advantage. A prosecutor can pit one against the other and maybe come to some conclusion of truth. I hope the police have DNA that will nail both TLM & MR. I mean with the current advancement in DNA, that can be pretty hard to refute.

P.S. Thank you both for all the links and information.

Moonlite

[moonlite]

This is a case I mentioned a long time ago. The offender in question is a habitual pedophile. I am glad Rodney and the anonymous father are able to spend some time together. I think there will be some healing here.

Greetings"
Gugug"

I agree with you!! I hope Rodney is getting some type of healing from his journey. I hope too that Rodney will always continue his quest to raise awareness for missing kids and child find. I'm glad that perp turned himself in and the boys were found alive.

Anyone hear how Daryn is doing? I'm assuming he is in counseling?

Moonlite

[moonlite]

This is from a book "Predators" by Anna C. Salter Ph.D. She is giving some great and disturbing insight into the mind of predators and the different motivations they have.

Here are a few quotes:
"You can`t incarcerate fantasies. (snipped) He gets three meals a day. He gets to fantasize all he wants to about what he wants to do, and when he gets out, he`s going to carry that out. Because as a man thinks, he does."

Paraphrased from her book, there are child molesters who are either simply attracted to children or others that are psychotic and feel entitled, yet others too timid to obtain intimacy from adults.
Then there are female offenders who can be related or not and either be coerced into molestation by a partner or have sadistic impulses themselves.
There are opportunistic rapists who take the opportunity while committing another crime. There are compulsive rapists who do it out of anger and get a thrill out of the violence committed.
Then there is plain distorted thinking of being entitled to whatever the fantasies are producing in a rapists mind. Entitlement with no empathy for the victim.
"Sadists are the sex offenders we fear the most, and rightly so. The acts they commit are brutal beyond description, inhumane in the true sense of the word, and senselesss to those without their particular type of hunger. (snipped) Sadists hurt people for the sexual thrill it gives them. (snipped) Sadism looks and sounds like a drug addiction, albeit an internal one (snipped), these men may have learned to trigger internal chemicals through violent fantasy and eventually through violent behavior."

Combine this with what I wrote earlier, that Oxy use numbs down sexual desires with the effect of seeking higher and higher thrills, it just makes me wish we never learn the full truth about Tori`s fate.

Greetings'
ThinkTank"

Thanks for posting this from your book. What is scary' some of these perps refuse any kind of treatment and are in denial they have a problem. But then again' getting treatment for a perp has never been proven to be successful.IMO

Down here in the States we have an Island in Washington that perpetual offenders are sent to live out their lives. I think it's called civil commitment of offender. Civil commitment usually happens after an offender completes their criminal sentence. I do believe perpetual perps should be kept away from society.IMO

Moonlite

[Gugug]

Greetings"
Gugug"

I agree with you!! I hope Rodney is getting some type of healing from his journey. I hope too that Rodney will always continue his quest to raise awareness for missing kids and child find. I'm glad that perp turned himself in and the boys were found alive.

Anyone hear how Daryn is doing? I'm assuming he is in counseling?

Moonlite

Since Tara and Daryn left Woodstock, they seem to have disappeared from the public eye. Does anyone know how Daryn is doing?

Here's word on Rodney and his sister:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1753521

[moonlite]

Since Tara and Daryn left Woodstock, they seem to have disappeared from the public eye. Does anyone know how Daryn is doing?

Here's word on Rodney and his sister:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1753521

Greetings"
Gugug"

Thanks for the link. Maybe it is a good thing that Tara and Daryn have dropped out of site. I mean maybe Daryn, can go back to some semblance of normal with counseling.
I'm very proud of Rodney for turning his life around and doing positive things.

Moonlite

[Gugug]

According to the LFP, Rodney will reach Edmonton today. Right now, he's almost at the big Pysanka:

http://www.geocities.com/williamwchow/egg/e-egg.htm
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/Local/2009/09/17/10949181-sun.html
http://www.eye-zon.com/EyezonBlack20090213/Portal/kilometres_for_kids.php

For anyone in Edmonton, he'll be at WEM, Phase 1 between 1 and 4 p.m. on Saturday.

[moonlite]

Rodney looks different after 3500 km on his bike. A look of health, clarity, strength and sadness.

http://www.globaltvedmonton.com/entertainment/story.html?id=2004602

EDMONTON — Before his daughter was abducted and killed this spring, the longest rides Rodney Stafford usually took on his bike were back and forth to his local Tim Hortons.

The father of eight-year-old Victoria Stafford has now cycled about 3,500 kilometres across Canada from his home in Woodstock, Ont., hoping to raise money and awareness for Child Find.

Like most parents, he once thought child abductions only happened to other people.

"You hear about it all the time and you think, you know, it's only in the movies, it's in big towns and other countries," Stafford said Thursday as he stepped off his bike after a 75-kilometre ride between Vegreville and Ardrossan and lit a cigarette.

"But no, it's everywhere... children go missing all the time and it's about time we all stood up and hopefully some people higher up can finally realize we've got to do something about our children's safety."

Stafford has raised about $22,000 so far for Child Find, and said he has spoken to countless people who have offered words of encouragement, sympathy and condolences.

At times, the trek has been gruelling, with wind and rain testing his strength, he said. Stafford blogged about patching up a blown tire on Sunday with duct tape, because he had sent all his spare tubes home.

"I fought with myself to get through each day. Some days were really easy but other days, where the wind is like today, I've gotta fight against the wind to get through it but I'm going to get through it."

Stafford will spend Friday in Sherwood Park before he bikes through Edmonton's river valley on Saturday to reach his final destination at West Edmonton Mall.

The finale will take place from 1 to 4p.m. at the mall's centre court.

Stafford will then head to Jasper, where Victoria spent a week on vacation last summer. He plans to climb a mountain and stand at the same spot where Victoria stood. There he will release a purple balloon.

"It's my way of saying goodbye to Victoria. I want to be as close to her as I can and get a picture taken of myself on the same mountain in the same spot my daughter was," he said.

Stafford plans to use photo editing software to put the two images together. "Then people can see their last image of Victoria was with me on top of the mountain and not walking away with some mysterious woman in a video," he said.

Victoria was last seen April 8 after video surveillance footage recorded her walking away af ter school hand-in-hand with a woman. In May, more than a month after she disappeared Michael Rafferty, 28, was charged with first-degree murder and abduction in her death. Ontario Provincial Police confirmed in late July that human remains found in a field about 150 kilometres northwest of Toronto belonged to Victoria.

Greetings"
ThinkTank"

Thanks for the article. I have to admit, that I did wipe away a few tears after reading the post. What Rodney said is so true' people never think it can happen to them. I think every country' nation' providence' needs stronger laws to help protect children.IMO

Moonlite

[Gugug]

http://www.cd989.com/modules/news/index.php?start=110&storytopic=0

A large drug bust in Woodstock has ended in various charges being laid. Oxford Community Police say they started the investigation in August because of problems with selling drugs on Main Street. The investigation led them to a Wilson Street home where two people were found with nearly $2000 worth of oxycodone and cash on them. 34-year-old Christina Lee Morrison and 21-year-old Andrew Donald Abbey were both arrested and charged with possession. Morrison also faces several more charges including two counts of possession for the purpose of sale and breach of probation.

on 2009/9/9 12:17:36 (457 reads) Comments?

------------------------------------------------

Police in Woodstock are looking for a suspect after a teen was stabbed. Oxford Community Police say early Sunday morning they were called to a home on Dundas Street and found a boy with several stab wounds. The 16-year-old had been stabbed in the arm and stomach, and was cut across the throat, luckily the injuries aren't life threatening.

This afternoon on CD 98.9 with Adam Liefl - the story of another violent crime in Woodstock involving a child.

on 2009/9/9 7:20:27 (358 reads) Comments?

---------------------------------------------

The green light has been given to dissolve the Oxford Community Police, although it likely won't happen until 2010. The province's civilian commission says the re-born Woodstock Police Service and the OPP will provide adequate service to the area. The commission now has 45 days to come up with spots in the OPP for 14 Oxford officers not needed in the Woodstock service, as well as get those officers into OPP training without disrupting service.

on 2009/9/10 6:25:13 (269 reads) Comments

-----------------------------------------------------

As another poster said some time ago, a Barney Fife police department?

[n/t]

Victoria....always remembered. :rose:

[Gugug]

"This (the cycling journey) is a little bit of closure, but we still have the trial coming up," Stafford said. "As painful as it is going to be I need to be there. I need to find out what happened to my baby."

From: http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jvZPgq5HOsVLpNafqlB1_4vqgfUA

Families need to know what happened to their loved ones, even when it is something they know will be horrible. The public needs to see justice being served.

MR's lawyer's promise to enter a not-guilty plea allows this to happen. In no way should MR be given a plea bargain to "spare" the family. It is way too late for that. The time to spare the family was before Tori was taken. JMO.

[n/t]

It must've been so emotional. I'm glad the media respected his privacy.

Victoria :rose:


BTW...thank you all for keeping Victoria's thread going. I really appreciate all the updates. :wub:

[Gugug]

What I don`t understand is - was it not MR who said he would not plead guilty? Not pleading guilty to 1st degree murder only but maybe to manslaughter? Does he WANT all the facts to come out in a trial? Does he want that because he feels others played a more important role in matters of guilt? Or is it his lawyer who wants to assure the public that justice will be served? I am confused about all this. We just do not have a lot of information via the press.

MR's lawyer, said his client will plead not guilty:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2009/08/21/ont-stafford-rafferty.html

The reason why is anyone's guess at this point. He could be pleading not criminally responsible. This is what we knew previously as the insanity plea.

Or, the lawyer could be saying this in order to have leverage for a plea bargain. MR's legal team might be trying to convince Crown Prosecutors to reduce the charges, offering to have MR plead guilty to a lesser charge. They may even be using the argument that reducing the charges and not allowing this information to become public would "spare" the family from the gruesome details. As we all know from the visceral reaction of the public so far, this choice by the Crown would be extremely unpopular, and would bring out the Karla Homolka comparisons again. Bargaining down the value of a child's life is never a wise thing to do. The public needs to see justice being served, not closed-door deals that ultimately let the accused off more lightly than if he faced the higher charges. To me, a plea bargain is an indication of guilt of the higher charge. It is done for expediency, rather than for justice.

Many believe that a plea bargain will not happen, which is why MR and TLM's trials were separated by the Crown. I hope that no plea bargains happen for either one of them.

So, yes, another strategy for MR's defence would be to have all the details come out in the trial, if MR's lawyer believes the evidence will point the finger at someone else: TLM and possibly others.

And finally, MR could be innocent. Or the evidence may not hold up in court. There are a lot of witnesses whose credibility is questionable. Drug users, for example, may not have accurate recall of events. We saw this at the Pickton trial.

[Gugug]

What I don`t understand is - was it not MR who said he would not plead guilty? Not pleading guilty to 1st degree murder only but maybe to manslaughter? Does he WANT all the facts to come out in a trial? Does he want that because he feels others played a more important role in matters of guilt? Or is it his lawyer who wants to assure the public that justice will be served? I am confused about all this. We just do not have a lot of information via the press.

I mentioned evidence not standing up in court, but there is another possibility, too, for a not guilty plea in the face of overwhelming evidence: improper procedural handling of the case. See this:

http://cancrime.com/2009/05/little-lie-goes-long-way-to-catch.html

Technicalities can take apart a case.

[Gugug]

Thanks for this analysis of possibilities.
Since his lawyer gained fame in another case letting a suspect off the hook because witnesses were under the influence of drugs, it may not be far fetched to see him trying to get MR at least off the full criminal responsibility. A mix of some drug induced irresponsibility with possibly improper procedural handling of the case plus TLM`s participation could give his lawyer a jump start. However, family and public in this case are a strong factor of opposition and justice will hopefully be just a matter of time.

For reference, as we get set for MR's court appearance today, here are a couple of Dirk Derstine's previous cases:

http://www.thestar.com/article/458093
http://sturbaindesigns.com/DerstinePenman/Finale/R.%20v.%20J.R..html

Note previous experience with a case involving dismembered body parts distributed in various places.

[Gugug]

This seems to be a specialization of Dirk Derstine:

http://derstinepenman.com/R.v.Gray.html

I think we'll see admissibility of evidence as a prime strategy by the defence. Hal Mattson, MR's previous lawyer, had said MR said certain things to the police before he had a lawyer. Perhaps the case was handed off to someone who specializes in such things.

[Gugug]

Another brief video court appearance. Another October 16:

http://www.cjcsradio.com/news/index.php

Pretrial meeting between lawyers and judge October 8.

[Gugug]

And now, this:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1770186

Parents in Woodstock must be feeling a great deal of unease.

[Gugug]

TLM's lawyer, Jeanine LeRoy, removed herself as counsel of record for John Douglas Robinson in this case, involving murder and dismemberment:

http://www.oxfordreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1638261&auth=Bruce%20Urquhart,%20SENTINEL-REVIEW

Robinson's co-accused, Amy Gilbert-Cassidy, had a sentencing hearing on Friday, September 25. She'll learn her fate September 28. She pleaded guilty. Interesting to read about the temporary publication ban, which is in effect to protect Robinson's right to a fair trial:

http://www.oxfordreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1716397

[Gugug]

I wonder if the McClintic/Rafferty trials will parallel the Gilbert-Cassidy/Robinson trials. If I were a family member, I'd be watching this closely.

Interestingly, lawyers for both McClintic and Rafferty have experience with cases involving murder and dismemberment. With Derstine Penman & Associates, the experience includes a client who hid body parts in various places.

I also find it interesting that the Woodstock Sentinel-Review had their lawyer challenge the publication ban.

[Gugug]

Oh, I did find some more general information on publish bans.

INDEPTH: PUBLICATION BANS
Publication bans: What the media can't say

By John Bowman and Justin Thompson, CBC News Online | Updated November 7, 2003




Under the law, judges must grant a publication ban on evidence presented at bail hearings and preliminary inquiries if the accused asks for one. During the trial, anything that is said or presented in court while the jury is away cannot be reported. Only after the trial can the press reveal "what the jury didn't see."

In the Paul Bernardo trial, the judge imposed a partial publication ban and prohibited journalists and the public from viewing videotapes presented in court. These bans are often imposed in the name of public decency and out of respect for the families of the victims.

News organizations will sometimes fight the publication bans, as they did in the Bernardo case, claiming that they violate freedom of expression guaranteed under the Constitution.

PUBLICATION BAN
During a trial, anything that is said or presented in court while the jury is away cannot be reported. Only after the trial can the press reveal "what the jury didn't see."

By law, judges must grant a publication ban on evidence presented at bail hearings and preliminary inquiries if requested to do so.

In general, publication bans exist to:

1. Ensure a fair trial for a person accused of a crime.

2. Ensure transparency of proceedings so Canadians know that crimes are prosecuted, and punished if proven.

3. Ensure privacy of people who may be affected by the information divulged in court.




But not all publication bans are imposed to protect citizens. In two separate murder cases, in Manitoba and B.C., judges have prohibited publication of the details of police stings. The judges in those cases ruled that future police operations could be jeopardized if the details of how they work are made public.

The Winnipeg Free Press, Brandon Sun and Vancouver Sun challenged the publication bans and the case is now before the Supreme Court of Canada.

A controversial publication ban in Britain was imposed for another reason: to protect the killers of two-year-old James Bulger from vigilante justice. Robert Thompson and Jon Venables, who were 10 years old when they beat the toddler to death in 1993, were given new identities when they were released in June 2002.

The judge imposed a permanent publication ban on any details about their new identities or where they will be relocated. He said that the press's continued interest in the case left the two vulnerable to harassment and violence.

In July, the publication ban was eased slightly to protect Internet service providers from prosecution if information violating the ban appears on one of their customers’ Web sites.

In Ontario, the names of an Aylmer couple whose children were removed by the Children's Aid Society have not appeared in the press. Neither have the names of a couple from Oshawa, Ont., who were accused of confining their two teenage sons in makeshift cages. Publication bans in both cases have prevented writers and broadcasters from revealing their identities.

PRELIMINARY HEARING
In serious criminal cases, a preliminary hearing is held to ensure that sufficient evidence exists to justify a full trial. All preliminary inquiries are held before provincial courts.

Among other things, the preliminary hearing is a chance for the Crown prosecutor to present witnesses whose testimony may persuade the judge there is enough evidence to go to trial.

The preliminary hearing is not meant to establish guilt or innocence. It is an opportunity for the judge to evaluate the case before choosing to proceed with or drop the charges. The judge may also decide to upgrade or downgrade the charges.

If, after attending the preliminary hearing, the accused decides the Crown has enough evidence, he or she may elect to enter a guilty plea, thus eliminating the need for a full trial.





Publication bans are often imposed when children are involved, to protect them from harmful publicity. In Ontario, it is illegal to reveal the names of children involved in hearings regarding their custody. In fact, publishing any information that would identify them, including their parents' names, their ages or sometimes even the school they attend, is banned.

Federal laws, including the Young Offenders Act, prohibit identifying in the press anyone under the age of 18 who is involved in a criminal proceeding. This includes the accused, witnesses and victims, unless the victims have died.

The Internet is becoming a challenge for those trying to enforce publication bans. Paul Bryan of Burnaby, B.C., was charged for posting results of last November's federal election on his Web site.

Under the Canada Elections Act, it is illegal to publish election results from parts of the country where polls have closed in parts of the country where polls are still open. The law is in place so that results from the East will not influence voters from the West.

But Bryan believes that the law infringes on his freedom of expression and, with the advent of the Internet and satellite television, is unenforceable besides. He is challenging the law under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

In the case of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka, British media were publishing the things that Karla had done, while Canadians were not allowed to read this in our own newspapers. Much of this information came from the preliminary hearing. I obtained one of those newspapers to read for myself. Coverage was extensive and detailed. I don't recall ever reading some of those things in our newspapers. Ultimately, Crown prosecutors were protected from negative public reaction for their role in the infamous "deal with the devil" for Homolka. Why? Is protection of the Crown from the court of public opinion for dubious decisions really the goal of such bans?

So here's the quandary: if the courts ban the sale of foreign newspapers, they are restricting our freedom of expression and information. With the internet thrown into that equation, what purpose do publication bans serve in a modern world? Anyone can go to court and reveal banned information on a website almost instantly. Of course, if they're Canadian, they risk prosecution. If not, there aren't any consequences. The judge could ban non-Canadians from attending court, but they are also protected by our Charter of Rights and Freedoms while in our country. So, no go. Will the courts ban Canadians' access to websites outside Canada in order to preserve publication bans? That would be restricting our freedom, too.

Nobody seems to have answered this question. Our courts sometimes appeared outdated, insular, and unresponsive to modern society as a result, IMHO.

Back-door deal-making is a symbol of old-boys' elitism that has no place in a modern, democratic society, IMO. This is one of the flaws with publication bans. Protecting a person's right to a fair trial is a good thing, but who is really being protected in such cases?

There are rare occasions when a preoccupied lawyer forgets to request a publication ban at a preliminary hearing. Some say that preliminary hearings should be eliminated altogether, which would eliminate the need for publication bans in those instances.

[Gugug]

Following up on the trial mentioned earlier:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1773860

[Gugug]

Here's another fundraiser for Child Find:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1973864

And more about that Amber Alert:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1973867

In this year's case of the 12-year-old autistic boy in Grand Forks who went missing, the issues of age and disability were never taken into account. An amber alert was not issued. The boy was found murdered.

[Gugug]

In the meantime - here is a general prison website. If inmates had computer access, they could calculate their chances for parole with this little tool:
http://www.insideprison.com/parole_decision_making.asp
You can also look up which gangs are repesented in Canadian prisons. Not sure who this site is set up for. Future inmates maybe? Not for the victims though. Statistics are not presented in their favour.

Maybe this parole calculator is set up for defence lawyers and Crown Prosecutors. I think repeat offenders have a pretty good idea already of how to play the system in their favor.

[Gugug]

Remember Vince Li, the bus beheader? It's a good thing he isn't in Alberta:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/health/Alberta+Hospital+psychiatrists+want+changes+hold/2068554/story.html

I can see why a plea of "not criminally responsible" would be so appealing.

[moonlite]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091003/national/woodstock_missing_girl

See, Tori`s case has changed the Amber Alert situation already.
P.S. Sorry for the monologue on here...thought I sprinkle in some general links until we hear again from court.

Greetings'
ThinkTank'

Thanks for posting the link. I'm glad more awarness and use is coming from Tori's Law. Just checking to see when TLM & MR are going to court for murdering Lil Tori.

Moonlite

[moonlite]

Here's another fundraiser for Child Find:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1973864

And more about that Amber Alert:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1973867

In this year's case of the 12-year-old autistic boy in Grand Forks who went missing, the issues of age and disability were never taken into account. An amber alert was not issued. The boy was found murdered.

Greetings"
Gugug"

Thanks for the articles!! Hopefully Rodney will continue helping Child Find and will become a spokes person for them. I'm glad the police did issue an Amber Alert for that young girl that was missing. I'm also glad she came home safe.

Moonlite

[Amy]

Hi Moonlite, there are two dates I am aware of: on October 8th this week the pre-trial content and its dates will be discussed and on Oct. 16th MR will have another court appearance. The actual trial date is not known at this point. Also, as Gugug mentioned before, there could be a publication ban in the making. Nothing at all is confirmed in public but Tori`s sad fate.

On another note regarding above mentioned "bus beheader": isn`t it amazing how often we read these days "God made me do it". It used to be "Satan made me do it". It makes a killer sound so much more good natured in the ear of a judge like the one who dealt with Vince Li.

I guess I have a problem w/the part about @ some point in time, the person might be found "okay" by the psychiatrists to return to society. I assume it is in Canada the way it is here--you can't force a person to take medication. So, the fellow takes his meds and goes to his therapy and whatever else he is required to do, and the psychiatrist(s) say he's ready to return to the free world. There is where the trouble starts up again, IMO. There are many who feel they are doing so well that they don't bother to take their meds, or perhaps can't get a job that pays enough for him to afford the drugs. So, he goes off the meds, and then starts hearing the "voice" and kills again. This time, maybe more than one poor soul, maybe 2 or maybe goes on a rampage and kills a dozen or more.

[Gugug]

I guess I have a problem w/the part about @ some point in time, the person might be found "okay" by the psychiatrists to return to society. I assume it is in Canada the way it is here--you can't force a person to take medication. So, the fellow takes his meds and goes to his therapy and whatever else he is required to do, and the psychiatrist(s) say he's ready to return to the free world. There is where the trouble starts up again, IMO. There are many who feel they are doing so well that they don't bother to take their meds, or perhaps can't get a job that pays enough for him to afford the drugs. So, he goes off the meds, and then starts hearing the "voice" and kills again. This time, maybe more than one poor soul, maybe 2 or maybe goes on a rampage and kills a dozen or more.

That is the frightening part of it. The other disturbing thing is that Vince Li could be set free without any notice to anyone.

In Alberta, the Stelmach government has announced cutbacks in the number of chronic care hospital beds. This means, in effect, that many of the patients from Alberta Hospital will effectively be put out on the streets when that facility is shut down.

It is a very good thing that Vince Li is in Manitoba.

[Gugug]

This story appeared in September in the London Free Press, about a man by the name of David Rock, who is a convicted sex offender living in the London area. This person makes a living by filming stunts for Youtube.

The original story is now gone from the LFP's website, but I found it here:

http://www.dailyheraldtribune.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1764078


"YouTube star says his criminal past is behind him
Posted By PATRICK MALONEY, Sun Media
Updated 14 days ago

A London man who's among YouTube's most-watched Canadian performers, his vehicle-stunt videos a hit with "young males", is a convicted child sex offender who did jail time for exploiting teenage boys.

David Rock says his stint behind bars in the early 1990s for sexual assault and exploitation is a thing of the past. And while he says the popularity of videos shot at his Lucan-area farm "put me around a lot of children," any concerns are misplaced.

"There are no issues, no complaints," said Rock.

He said an "initial diagnosis" of him years ago pointed to "pedophilia," but that when he was tested again in 1998 -- when what he considers the underlying medical issues, such as manic depression, were under control -- "they never even mentioned pedophilia."

Rock also makes it clear why he's achieved such a huge profile on YouTube.

"Everybody knows that the demographics of the Internet is young people, and mostly young males, so you have to try to create a type of program that appeals to young males," said Rock, whose popularity prompted Google-owned YouTube to make him a business partner.

"Young males want something short and sweet, something maybe sexy -- so I use pretty women to do my things -- they want maximum excitement, like a big jump or something that's outrageous or crazy ... that's how the teenage male brain works."

Through an ad revenue-sharing deal with Google-owned YouTube, Rock says the Internet giant is paying him as much as $15,000 a month.

But the 47-year-old's successful quest for Internet fame has also trained a spotlight on his past, giving ammunition to his critics and pause to even some dedicated fans.

Rock was jailed in 1992 for the sexual exploitation of a pair of what court records refer to as "young person(s)." He says they were teenage boys he encouraged to masturbate while he videotaped them, and sexual assaults on two children whose genitals he says he touched and videotaped.

He was also convicted of giving a child rum, court records show. In all, Rock pleaded guilty to seven charges and four more were dropped, He was sentenced to a year behind bars, records show.

"I'm not involved in doing sexual things with people, I was doing things with video cameras," he said.

Documents related to his crimes have been widely circulated by his critics -- a group that includes Anna Thoms, the mother of one of his children.

Rock, a gifted machinist who has modified many of the vehicles used in his videos, says no minors visit the farm without their parents.

patrick.maloney@sunmedia.ca"

Parents should never let their guard down.

[moonlite]

That is the frightening part of it. The other disturbing thing is that Vince Li could be set free without any notice to anyone.

In Alberta, the Stelmach government has announced cutbacks in the number of chronic care hospital beds. This means, in effect, that many of the patients from Alberta Hospital will effectively be put out on the streets when that facility is shut down.

It is a very good thing that Vince Li is in Manitoba.

Greetings"
Gugug"

The Government should make a law that makes it mandatory to give the public notice.IMO We had a convicted killer down here in the States, walked away from an outing couple weeks ago. The guy is in the criminally insane ward at Eastern State hospital and was let out for a field trip. I think the people in charge who let these people out should be held accountable too!! What is dangerous these people can get out and end up anywhere!!

So far it doesn't sound like MR is going for the insanity plea.IMO I hope the police have enough evidence to show premeditation. IMO' I think a person who acts on premeditation is not insane!!

Hoping for justice for Lil Tori!!

Moonlite

[Gugug]

Very reassuring... Not all parents are protective by nature.

And what is this today? Same location?
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2009/10/08/11348041.html

Ah, Biddulph Township, home of that historically-infamous family, the Black Donnellys.

[Gugug]

It is said that Biddulph Township was a lawless place. The descendants of those who murdered the Donnellys still live in the area, and they try to keep the subject quiet to this day, according to some. Here is background on that historic case:

http://hectormacisaac.com/donnellys.html
http://leggsgeneralstore.ca/donnellyofbiddulph.html

[Gugug]

Would it be a sign of lesser involvement of TLM if she only has court appearances every two months versus about every two weeks for MR?

Is is a sign of lesser involvement by TLM, or more incriminating evidence against MR?

[Gugug]

I just realized something. The judge in the Bandidos trial denied a request to move the trial to another location. Why? The extensive publicity about the case was just as great elsewhere. Changing the location would not have made a difference.

This may well be the case with the trials of TLM and MR.

[Gugug]

Joe Wamback minces no words about pedophiles on this radio show:

http://www.570news.com/listen/jeff-allan/media.jsp?content=20090923_134254_6596
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjxW-WQ-KCE

[Gugug]

Very reassuring... Not all parents are protective by nature.

And what is this today? Same location?
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2009/10/08/11348041.html

Apparently he grows catnip on his farm.

[moonlite]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/edmsun/091011/canada/vicious_beatings_filmed

As I said before, a lot of things happen these days just because there is a market for videotaped extremes. Something to keep in mind when following the trial to come.

Greetings'
ThinkTank"

I thought the police said they did find pictures or something of Tori? That was awhile back when TLM & MR were first arrested I think.

Moonlite

[Gugug]

Stupid question but - is the change of trial location usually done for the sake of the accused or for the sake of the prosecutors or lawyers? In the sense that they do not keep running into each other or their families after the trial?

I'm not a lawyer, but a request for a change of location is usually made by lawyers representing the accused, in order to protect their clients' right to a fair trial. They don't want potential jurors to be prejudiced by pre-trial publicity. When the accused have chosen trial by judge alone, this becomes pretty much a non-issue.

I don't know if Crown Prosecutors make such requests (to protect Crown witnesses, for example).

I believe that cases are also moved where the facilities available aren't appropriate, such as a trial of a gang member, where the local court doesn't have adequate security, or where the courthouse isn't large enough to handle a major trial.

It isn't done for the sake of the lawyers.

[moonlite]

I'm not a lawyer, but a request for a change of location is usually made by lawyers representing the accused, in order to protect their clients' right to a fair trial. They don't want potential jurors to be prejudiced by pre-trial publicity. When the accused have chosen trial by judge alone, this becomes pretty much a non-issue.

I don't know if Crown Prosecutors make such requests (to protect Crown witnesses, for example).

I believe that cases are also moved where the facilities available aren't appropriate, such as a trial of a gang member, where the local court doesn't have adequate security, or where the courthouse isn't large enough to handle a major trial.

It isn't done for the sake of the lawyers.

Greetings'
Gugug"

I have a question!! I was wondering if the judge does allow a change of venue; meaning different location for the trial. Where and who in Canada has not heard of Lil Tori's case? I mean at this point it would appear that Tori's case is still high profile and people know about it. My other question' can the local jurisdiction handle a trial like Tori's? What are your thoughts?

Moonlite

[moonlite]

I am not sure if this was ever officially stated by the police, Moonlite, however the existence of graphic evidence via someone`s cell phone had been discussed in so many different forums that I believe it to be true. And that could be pictures or videos. I am sure we will learn more about this one day.

Greetings'
ThinkTank'

Yes' I do remember the cell phone being mentioned and that was what I was referring too. I'm wondering if the police can show that TLM & MR, were into child pornography or something? I mean that could show premeditation.IMO If MR had been looking at child porn' then kidnapped Tori, took the pictures? Ok' maybe that is just a long shot!! I'm just hoping Lil Tori does get justice and the perps never get out of jail.

Moonlite

[Gugug]

Greetings'
Gugug"

I have a question!! I was wondering if the judge does allow a change of venue; meaning different location for the trial. Where and who in Canada has not heard of Lil Tori's case? I mean at this point it would appear that Tori's case is still high profile and people know about it. My other question' can the local jurisdiction handle a trial like Tori's? What are your thoughts?

Moonlite

I think it is unlikely that the judge would allow a change of venue strictly on the basis of publicity potentially prejudicing jurors. The Bandidos trial was not moved out of London, Ontario because the judge deemed that it would not have made a difference. People throughout the province were aware of the story. This is MOO.

In other parts of the country, many have not heard of Tori. However, the trial cannot be moved out of province. This is in the hands of the Ontario courts.

I defer the second question to Woodstock and area residents. I am not at all familiar with the courthouse. Does anyone know if the Woodstock courthouse is equipped to handle a case like this, in terms of security, capacity, etc.?

I'm thinking it may not be, as I recall how Stafford family members were on hand to greet Michael Rafferty when he made a court appearance. Courthouses elsewhere have direct transfer of inmates to holding cells via underground parking lots, so observers have no contact with inmates prior to the court proceedings.

[moonlite]

Another video appearance by MR:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2009/10/16/11424736.html

This time the lawyer is a recent law school graduate. Wow, MR has been passed down the line at Derstine Penman. Not that there's all that much involved in a brief video appearance from jail, the new jail, that is.

Greetings"
Gugug"

Thanks for the link. So MR' is pleading not guilty? I'm wondering if he going to point the finger at TLM? I'm wondering who's phone had the pictures on it? Is TLM' pleading not guilty? I'm also wondering if the prosecutor will do a plea deal with him?

Moonlite

[moonlite]

http://www.ocl.net/archives/vrtour_uf.html
This site gives a good impression of the courthouse, a virtual tour. It seems rather like a historical/ architectural point of interest than high security environment - but then again security features would probably not be shown on a public website.

Greetings"
ThinkTank'

Thank you for the virtual tour of court house. How come the upper level of court house shows that it has two sets of jury seats? How many jurors do Canadian trials have? Hoping for justice for Lil Tori!!

Moonlite

[jljayne]

I was really hoping that Rodney's ride would be a wake-up call to schools to warn their kids (especially girls and the very young) about the dangers of walking alone outdoors. Hopefully schools in Canada are doing this, considering that Tori vanished in Canada. However, given the large number of children vanishing on the way to/from school in the US in recent weeks, schools evidently aren't warning kids in the US. Or perhaps it's the kids and the parents who aren't heeding the warnings.

[moonlite]

I was really hoping that Rodney's ride would be a wake-up call to schools to warn their kids (especially girls and the very young) about the dangers of walking alone outdoors. Hopefully schools in Canada are doing this, considering that Tori vanished in Canada. However, given the large number of children vanishing on the way to/from school in the US in recent weeks, schools evidently aren't warning kids in the US. Or perhaps it's the kids and the parents who aren't heeding the warnings.

Greetings"
Jljayne'

I think Rodney's bicycle ride has promoted awareness in Canada.IMO I agree there are allot of children missing walking from or too school. I mean here in USA. I think stranger danger is something all parents needs to teach children. But then again' Tori knew her abductor through Tara her mother. I think we can educate our children and try to keep them safe. But until we (the people) start demanding tougher laws on perps. I think that will help reduce child rapes, murders, abductions. I think the threat of getting a death sentence might be a great deterrent or being locked up for life.IMO I think Tori's hometown police and their FBI people did a great job so far.IMO

I think the police(USA) response to allot of missing children's cases needs to change.IMO I mean how many cases do you read that a child is missing the (USA) police classify the child as a run away. The police don't issue an Amber Alert!! Then time is lost and that time can be crucial when there is a missing child. I know in Tori's case there was no Amber Alert issued. But I do think the Canadian police are changing certain things with their Amber Alert system. So once again' I do think more awareness has come from Lil Tori's abduction and murder.IMO

Moonlite

[Amy]

This article here digs a bit into rumours why he was transferred and that`s exactly what I figured...
http://www.theobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2135000

Here is part of the article:

But one of the sources that tipped off The Free Press about the move said Rafferty had made several complaints about the mail delivery, phone access and taunting by guards and other inmates at EMDC.
Especially upsetting to Rafferty were threats from members of
the Bandidos motorcycle gang, also held at EMDC on murder charges, the source said.
Rafferty's life is much quieter and more casual at the Chatham jail, where he's held by himself in an area usually quartering four people, the source said.
He's allowed more privileges, such as snacks and access to a television, the source said.
"There aren't as many rules governing him."
A source inside the corrections system made a similar assessment of Rafferty's stay in the Chatham jail, built to hold 53 inmates.
"They're lucky if they have 20 or 30 inmates. It's very small. It's really, really quiet. They sent him there to pretty much hide him, just to kind of keep him out of the limelight."
The possibility Rafferty is getting anything he wants angered Tori's mother, Tara McDonald.
"Our family is absolutely outraged. There is no way that he should be receiving any sort of special treatment," she said.

BBM

That was my initial tho't, too. Then again, the motorcycle gang might do him in before trial, and I don't think that would be a good idea. If the perp is dead, there is no trial, no conviction. I do think he shouldn't be getting snacks and tv, and "luxury" accommodations, but do want him alive for a trial.

[moonlite]

This article here digs a bit into rumours why he was transferred and that`s exactly what I figured...
http://www.theobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2135000

Here is part of the article:

But one of the sources that tipped off The Free Press about the move said Rafferty had made several complaints about the mail delivery, phone access and taunting by guards and other inmates at EMDC.
Especially upsetting to Rafferty were threats from members of
the Bandidos motorcycle gang, also held at EMDC on murder charges, the source said.
Rafferty's life is much quieter and more casual at the Chatham jail, where he's held by himself in an area usually quartering four people, the source said.
He's allowed more privileges, such as snacks and access to a television, the source said.
"There aren't as many rules governing him."
A source inside the corrections system made a similar assessment of Rafferty's stay in the Chatham jail, built to hold 53 inmates.
"They're lucky if they have 20 or 30 inmates. It's very small. It's really, really quiet. They sent him there to pretty much hide him, just to kind of keep him out of the limelight."
The possibility Rafferty is getting anything he wants angered Tori's mother, Tara McDonald.
"Our family is absolutely outraged. There is no way that he should be receiving any sort of special treatment," she said.

Greetings"
ThinkTank'

I know this is not nice' but MR' can't believe he will be protected all the time. I mean when MR' is convicted won't he be with the general population of people in prison? MR' is a drama queen'IMO I think MR deserves the same treatment he gave to Tori.IMO MR' new attorney, is insulting peoples intelligence by saying keep an open mind. Lets see' Tori, was abducted and murder, her body dumped, pictures taken, the drug connection, raped, forensic evidence!! Those facts alone should be enough to convict both MR & TLM.
I think MR' attorney is going to need pull his head out of the clouds and get a reality check. What could anyone say' that would be a plausible defense to a child being raped and murder. I don't think insanity defense will wash either in Tori's case. I mean there does appear to be some afore thought or premeditation involved.

Moonlite

[Amy]

Courthouse security is bound to be a big issue now.

Things may not be so grand if MR is found guilty. Remember this?

http://www.thestar.com/article/114781

And there's a protest:

http://ckdp.ca/protest-being-planned-at-chatham-jail-concerning-tori-stafford-murder-suspect/


Ah, yes. Keeping my fingers crossed that MR will enjoy such a lifestyle after the trial.

[Gugug]

I remember that article. Makes you shudder.
Maybe his move to Chatham is the equivalent of TLM`s helicopter rides and only of short lived nature.

Speaking of TLM, I wonder if she's still in the Elgin-Middlesex Detention Centre. Maybe she'll want an upgraded suite, too.

[moonlite]

Courthouse security is bound to be a big issue now.

Things may not be so grand if MR is found guilty. Remember this?

http://www.thestar.com/article/114781

And there's a protest:

http://ckdp.ca/protest-being-planned-at-chatham-jail-concerning-tori-stafford-murder-suspect/

Greetings'
Gugug"

I'm glad the people of Canada are standing up for Tori. I hope MR' is locked away for the rest of his life. TLM deserves the same treatment too!! Hoping for justice for Lil Tori.

Moonlite

[Gugug]

She may be quite comfortable with the Crips at the EMDC.

Off topic: an article on crime statistics, pretty interesting for locals.
http://www.brantfordexpositor.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1666396

Here's a summary of gangs/drugs at EMDC:

http://www.insideprison.com/elgin-middlesex-detention-centre.asp

I imagine all accused sex offenders are kept separate from the general population.

[Gugug]

I came across "Sarnia" in several articles as well.
The articles all had the same wording and were published 4 days ago. Misunderstanding or smoke and mirrors for the press?

If MR was indeed in Sarnia, he may have found himself worse off:
http://www.theobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1720879
Apparently it is overcrowded and hazardous to an inmate`s health, unlike the solitude of Chatham.

If he was in Sarnia at some point, that could explain the move. Three to a cell, with one sleeping on the floor, would not work for a prisoner who needs protective custody.

God forbid if H1N1 ever breaks out in a place like that.

[Gugug]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090521/stafford_suspects_090521/20090521?hub=Canada

This article is five months old now. What I see for the first time spelled out is this:

"Police allege that McClintic helped Rafferty abduct Tori, and then helped him escape the area. Later, police allege Rafferty killed the girl on his own."
(BBM)

Later? After what and where? On his own? Where and where was TLM?
I know these questions have been asked hundreds of times but I wonder how police came up with that statement in May.

It does seem to appear that they had video evidence, from surveillance cameras/cellphones/the internet.

[Gugug]

Everett, Ontario is not too far from Mt. Forest.

[Gugug]

Yes, he did.
Interesting! OPP uncovered this group of 31 people via peer-to-peer file sharing program analysis? Means it is not one large anonymous, possibly foreign based ring but a tight local network? Close to MR`s former roaming zone?
The three mentioned above were also listed in this article.
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/582992

I can not shake off the image of a "modern" king in rural Ontario who orders in a couple of innocent girls per year, picked off the street by anyone who is desperate enough to get quick money. And maybe the latest deal went wrong because the messenger could not keep his hands off the deliverables. Whatever the truth, it sure contains some sickening elements.

I remember seeing the list of names before, but the local article from Guelph made things more clear. Bravo to the Guelph Mercury staff for giving this some perspective.

[Gugug]

That`s right. Release of full names before trial has been abandoned in many European countries, just as death penalty is a matter of the past, all based on the possibility of false accusations that may ruin a person`s life.
Just as the U of G is studying how wrongful convictions may be avoided in future, the territory of the media in general should undergo some ethical research as well. The first thing to go would probably be this message board :)
I assume in Canada it is permitted to publish names. Some of the media will gladly want to please part of the public that is frustrated having no access to the sex offender registry as would be the case in the US.

The following is an article from the Alliston Herald, referring to the same child porn ring bust, however without the whole list of 31 names. Instead a couple of statistical and psychological remarks are added. Remove the charged man`s name and the article would be informative for the public without jumping to premature conclusions, wouldn`t it?

http://www.allistonherald.com/article/128256

The additional remarks are quite interesting, IMO: (snipped)

"•Studies suggest 19 out of 20 cases of child sexual abuse go undetected. • Only one in 10 adults report sexual assault and the sexual assault of children is reported less often. • Possessors of child pornography have a very high propensity to be hands-on abusers, and studies in the United States indicate that anywhere from 30-80 per cent of collectors of child sexual abuse images are hands-on abusers. • Studies indicate abusers have anywhere from 13-30 child victims each."
(snipped)
"The raids were executed by police services in 18 municipalities, including Barrie, as part of the Provincial Strategy to Protect Children from Sexual Assault and Exploitation on the Internet.
Since the strategy was implemented in August 2006 at the request of the provincial government, police have laid 1,983 charges against 634 people as a result of 4,782 investigations.
The Child Sexual Exploitation Section of the OPP investigated another 996 cases, resulting in 392 charges being laid against 144 people."
(snipped)

Police say collections of child pornography in circulation on the Internet include hundreds of thousands of images and hundreds of child rape videos.
The victims are increasingly younger and the images are more violent as the appetite for live video of child sexual abuse on the Internet grows, say police.
Often mistaken as victimless, most child pornography offences in Ontario involve the actual sexual exploitation, rape and sexual torture of children, including infants, on-camera, said police."
(snipped)

This article points out quite well that there is a market for madness, maybe madder than many of us assumed.

Media are allowed to print names of adults who have been charged with crimes. The exception to this would be in cases where those adults have committed those crimes against minor children whose identities might become known as a result of publication of the adults' names, such as a parent committing a sex crime against their own child.

It is interesting that some adult victims of sex crimes now come forward to release their names to the public. These individuals seem to want their identities to be known, because it reveals their humanity, and shows that they are victims who should not feel shame for being victimized. Not all victims feel this way.

The court process is shrouded in secrecy enough that I think any attempt by the justice system to keep the identities of people accused of crimes private would be met with lawsuits by the media. The North American view differs from the old world European view of things, in that the public's right to know, and freedom of the press is seen as an inextricable part part of freedom in general. The infamous "deal with the devil" in the case of Karla Homolka is a prime example of what Crown Prosecutors will do if they are not answerable to the public. Expediency is not always in the public interest, and Crown Prosecutors do not always know best.

I think North Americans want greater transparency from the justice system, not less of it. Cases of people who were wrongly convicted were not a creation of the public, but of the police who carried out the investigations, and Crown Prosecutors who went along with it. If the public did not know the names of those individuals, the convictions still would have occurred. I think it is because the public knew these names that the individuals were finally able to clear their names.

I don't think that the media always conduct themselves in a forthright manner. Sometimes the truth takes a back seat to running a story that will sell. There is plenty of room for improvement. For now, they're all we have. And without them, we would never have known about that Karla deal.

[Gugug]

Please put your links in the links thread so posters who do not have time to read the forum can go there quickly for updates.

If you wish to discuss the link, bring it to the thread as a copy then.
Thanks you.

Quick question: does this apply to our "asides", which are not directly related to Tori's case, but serve as background and examples?

[Gugug]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2148656

[Amy]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2148656

Good move!!!!

[Gugug]

I wonder if parents in Woodstock are following the case of a teacher who is accused of sexual assault:

http://www.oxfordreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2150321

The elementary school(s) in the area where this teacher taught have not been named. Link not posted in the links page, as it doesn't directly relate to Tori's case.

[Gugug]

The ride for Tori -- Rodney's, that is, brought in a lot of money for Child Find:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2154407

[moonlite]

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2148656

Greetings'
Gugug"

Thanks for the link. Yes' it good news that the changes are being made. I hope it might help save another child. Any updates on TLM & MR?

Hoping for justice for little Tori!!!

Moonlite

[moonlite]

It does seem to appear that they had video evidence, from surveillance cameras/cellphones/the internet.

Greetings'
Gugug"

I remember reading that Tori's abductors did in fact take some type of pictures or have some kind of incriminating evidence. I just hope the police can nail both TLM & MR and put them away for a very long time.

Moonlite

[debbadoo]

I just had to post this......just finished reading it. Tori would be SO proud of her daddy.....


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Good_News/2009/10/30/11575346-sun.html

[Gugug]

I just read that Canada's youngest multiple killer is about to get escorted trips into the community. She is currently housed at Alberta Hospital in Edmonton. That facility is closing beds and downgrading as part of a political move by the Alberta government to cut costs. This is the same government currently embroiled in a huge controversy over mishandling of the H1N1 vaccine, and a large bonus to be paid for cost-cutting to the Australian in charge of the province's health services.

Four years ago this murderer was labelled "seriously disturbed", but now she's being allowed out under supervision. You have to wonder sometimes if it's a coincidence that such decisions are made when the facility is getting downsized. Are such things done strictly because that is what is medically advisable, or politically expedient?

A plea of "not criminally responsible" might be attractive to an accused murderer.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/freedoms+Medicine+killer/2172945/story.html

Link posted here only, as it is not directly related to Tori's case.

[moonlite]

Greetings'
Gugug"
ThinkTank'


What are your thoughts on MR' pleading insanity? The concept of pleading insane and only doing a few years' just boggles my mind. I mean there has got to be a way premeditation can be proven in Tori's case. If premeditation can be proven will a judge allow for the insanity defense?

I really hope there will be justice for Tori.

Moonlite

[moonlite]

I just had to post this......just finished reading it. Tori would be SO proud of her daddy.....


http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Good_News/2009/10/30/11575346-sun.html

Greetings"
Debbadoo'

Thanks for the link. Yes' I think Tori would be happy about how her dad has not only raised money for Child Find. But the awareness that every one at anytime can become a victim. I really do hope Rodney continues to help Child Find.

Moonlite

[debbadoo]

Greetings"
Debbadoo'

Thanks for the link. Yes' I think Tori would be happy about how her dad has not only raised money for Child Find. But the awareness that every one at anytime can become a victim. I really do hope Rodney continues to help Child Find.

Moonlite

I hope he does, too. My heart breaks for him and Tara.....:sad:

[Gugug]

MR was represented in court by a junior lawyer, who urges everyone to keep an open mind:

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2173170

[Gugug]

This case is going to trial. This means that MR will be pleading not guilty. It sounds as though the lawyers are firm on this. It sounds as though MR will not get a plea bargain.

And so, the public will learn what happened to Victoria Stafford. We will have to wait until after the preliminary hearing. It is possible that there may be a temporary publication ban on the trial, depending on who goes first. The second accused's right to a fair trial cannot be jeopardized.

What kind of plea will the second accused make?

[Gugug]

Greetings"
Debbadoo'

Thanks for the link. Yes' I think Tori would be happy about how her dad has not only raised money for Child Find. But the awareness that every one at anytime can become a victim. I really do hope Rodney continues to help Child Find.

Moonlite

Although custodial parents taking drugs, and hanging around with drug dealers and criminals increases the likelihood of this happening. Not a shot at Rodney, BTW.

Take a look at this checklist:

http://www.oes.ca.gov/WebPage/oeswebsite.nsf/PDF/Child%20Abduction%20First%20Responding%20Officer%2 0Checklist/$file/CAfirstResponCklst.PDF

[moonlite]

This case is going to trial. This means that MR will be pleading not guilty. It sounds as though the lawyers are firm on this. It sounds as though MR will not get a plea bargain.

And so, the public will learn what happened to Victoria Stafford. We will have to wait until after the preliminary hearing. It is possible that there may be a temporary publication ban on the trial, depending on who goes first. The second accused's right to a fair trial cannot be jeopardized.

What kind of plea will the second accused make?

Greetings"
Gugug"

I hope neither one of the perps get a plea deal. TLM & MR' deserve to be locked behind bars for life. I think they are both a danger to society. But it does sound like TLM' is getting a plea deal' which is not right!!

Hoping Tori gets justice.

Moonlite

[moonlite]

Greetings'

I'm just checking to see if there has been any updates on Tori's case.

Hoping Tori gets justice!!


Moonlite