July 28...daily thread [Archive] - In Session Message Boards

daniel green

07-28-2009, 01:13 PM

DIAZ: Right. And you guys are all talking about, you know, when charges are going to be filed. I think the thing we have to look at first is the toxicology report and when it comes back. I mean that's, you know, even though Diprivan could be out of his system, that's going to offer up a much clearer analysis of what killed Michael Jackson.

But talking about a time line, new reports today, of course, that the EMTs showed up and they didn't even know they were working on Michael Jackson. They thought they were working on a sickly old man. It took them 10 minutes to realize they were talk -- they were even working on Michael Jackson after they got there.

And then, of course, other reports today saying today that Dr. Conrad Murray did not at all, you know, reconfirming your earlier reports, did not at all want to pronounce Michael Jackson at the house. He wanted...

MORET: He wanted to make sure he was brought to the hospital.

DIAZ: He wanted him to the hospital and kept performing CPR, which the EMTs thought were strange and they -- they said that, you know, there were reports that he was in the way a lot of times, as well.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/27/lkl.01.html

aproudmom

07-28-2009, 02:00 PM

wow did not know we had the daily thread..I also heard and read what you have to watched when taking this drug and pretty much everything was on the list..plus IIRC they usually do blood work to check your numbers before using this but it may be something else it has been a couple weeks since I was reading about it..

kakax

07-28-2009, 02:07 PM

Thanks for the transcript of AC last night! I hadn't seen it. Very interesting!

daniel green

07-28-2009, 02:09 PM

What is even more shocking is that this dipravin is like Ketamin, a cat tranc.

http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/96/5/597.pdf

And we know that there is Ketamin abuse.

http://www.clearhavencenter.com/substance-abuse-treatment-resources/signs-of-Ketamine-abuse.php

Ketamine use
I.M. (intra-muscular injection) Ketamine generally takes 1-5 minutes to take effect. Snorted ketamine takes a little longer at 5-15 minutes. Depending on how much and how recently one has eaten, oral ketamine can take between 5 and 30 minutes to take effect. The primary effects of ketamine last approximately a 30-45 minutes if injected, 45-60 minutes when snorted, and 1-2 hours if used orally. The Drug Enforcement Administration reports that the drug can still affect the body for up to 24 hours.

Hallucinations- it blocks chemical messengers in the brain that carry sensory input; the brain fills the resulting void with visions, dreams, or memories.

visual distortions
lost sense of time, senses, and identity
euphoria
confusion
smells and tastes seem muted
visual perception and sense of touch are amplified
may feel 'floaty' - slightly or far away from your body
numbness in your extremities
k hole - comparatively similar to a near death experience, with the sensation of rising above one's body, inner peace, and radiant light

A BBC report in May 2000 claimed that medical research had shown that controlled tests on Ketamine users had revealed impaired memory and mild schizophrenia several days after taking the drug.

Two psychological difficulties which seem to come up for those who use Ketamine regularly are paranoia and egocentrism. There are many reports of regular users starting to see patterns and coincidences (synchronicities) in the world around them which seem to indicate that they are somehow more important or integral to the world than others. This same sense of the world focusing on the user can also feed into a sense of paranoia. A main characteristic of Ketamine is a stupor similar to extreme drunkenness. This is commonly known as "being in the K-hole."

aproudmom

07-28-2009, 02:16 PM

daniel green

07-28-2009, 02:23 PM

aproudmom

07-28-2009, 02:26 PM

Good afternoon Daniel Green,

Thanks -- that's interesting. Ketamine is the drug known as "Special K", correct?

IMO the only reason diprivan's abuse is mainly restricted to the medical community and not more mainstream is that both access of the drug and knowledge of its properties are restricted to anesthesiological circles.

umm did that say 100 pain killers a day or 100mg a day:ohmy:
I can see the Xanax because they had me on 2 1mg 3 times a day which would have been 6 a day at one point when I was being taken off of klonopin but I never listened to them I never took more than 3 a day I was to afraid of becoming were I had to take more and more..

Mairi II

07-28-2009, 02:32 PM

aproudmom

07-28-2009, 03:00 PM

Good afternoon, all.

I was watching NG last night while that family friend of the Jackson's (guy with the hat) and Cherilyn Lee were on. They had both been on Jane's show, too. At any rate, the friend seemed to be confronting Lee. Did anyone else see? If so, do you know what he was driving at?

he has voiced his opinion on all the doctors and why they are just now coming forward on TV..but agree he got carried away last night..IMO

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 03:18 PM

Hi Mairi II,

Yes -- it was discussed last night's daily thread too. Firpo Carr is the notorious "hat guy." He acted as though Lee was on the stand and he was cross examining her. Quite rude, I thought.

I don't know what he was driving at. The times I've seen him, that seems to be his style. He's confrontational, and may be addicted to righteous indignation. JMO

ETA: Here's a link on Dr. Firpo Carr.

http://www.lasentinel.net/Dr.-Firpo-W.-Carr/

While I have never cared for Firpo Carr and his attitude, I have my doubts on Lee also. She is appearing on every show she can get on and I don't believe she is all that truthful. I wonder how much she gets paid for the many shows she seems to get herself on since Mr Jackson died?

in my opinion

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 03:33 PM

Hi retired cop,

I have no idea. When Nurse Lee first appeared, I got a good first impression from her. However, repeated appearances have given me pause.

This situation is so convoluted and clouded in so much chaos that it's hard for me to know who to trust.

How about Dr. Klein? Didn't get a good impression of him at all. And now it's rumored (Geraldo Rivera's show - sorry no link) that Klein's attorney wrote a letter to the media asking that they stop the speculation and innuendos. The very speculation Klein initiated when he addressed paternity rumors regarding Michael's children. imo

Zenyetta, that is exactly where I think the Diprovan came from. Dr. Kline. I think he would have had the drug in his office for quick surgeries.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 03:43 PM

Zenyetta, that is exactly where I think the Diprovan came from. Dr. Kline. I think he would have had the drug in his office for quick surgeries.

That's what I think from the beginnning on. Klein has access to the drug because he does plastic surgery.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 03:45 PM

<snipped>

How about Dr. Klein? Didn't get a good impression of him at all. And now it's rumored (Geraldo Rivera's show - sorry no link) that Klein's attorney wrote a letter to the media asking that they stop the speculation and innuendos. The very speculation Klein initiated when he addressed paternity rumors regarding Michael's children. imo

Can't tell you why but I've never had a good impression of Dr. Klein. There's something unhonest about him imo. I also disliked how he disclosed Michael's medical details on tv.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 03:46 PM

While I have never cared for Firpo Carr and his attitude, I have my doubts on Lee also. She is appearing on every show she can get on and I don't believe she is all that truthful. I wonder how much she gets paid for the many shows she seems to get herself on since Mr Jackson died?

in my opinion

Oh, did she appear on SEVERAL shows -- not only one?

VC2

07-28-2009, 03:52 PM

daniel green

07-28-2009, 03:53 PM

She was on LKL, last night, as well. Which is the only one I watched.

Not sure what to think about her, to tell you the truth.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 03:54 PM

Huge huge difference between the two Daniel though. snipped)

imo

Not sure if the differences are huge, but yeah, they are different.

I would have never thought to link them were it not for the info on the diprivan Rx info itself where it says it is like Ketamin.

VC2

07-28-2009, 04:01 PM

Yep. That's the one.

But, how interesting. On the diprivan's own info, it says that Ketamine is a similar or same class of drug.

yes but the effects, use and its working mechanism are not the same. Happens alot both when they have similar profiles and when they don't - where the effect is the same then as another class.

A really good example of this is the COPD drug Atrovent. I was really really surprised at how after every 5 minute inhalation treatment scootch just ran for the food bowl immediately so researched it. Imagine my surprise when i found this respiratory drug is related (part of the same chemical family) to a mild anti depressant (cant remember the name, starts with a C) which is known for its effect on the appetite stimulating area of the brain. In late winter when i was so ill with a respiratory infection myself they gave me 4 treatments with atrovent at ER to get me breathing and i sooo wanted to eat right after lol.

So that its in the same class does not mean it works the same way or even is used for the same things. Also different in how Ketamine works in a veterinary situation and how it works on humans (look at aspirin and cats for example)

no link on the atrovent/anti depressant info, its been a long time since i looked it up but its there if you dig around so

IMO

crazymama

07-28-2009, 04:22 PM

I still cannot believe he took this drug. Because of the nature of the drug and method of delivery.But anyway saw this about the drug and you can be addicted, but u don't get withdrawals. I guess u just get cravings. So that would be a plus for a addict from his perspective. Worked on my linkability.

Propofol Dependency in a Lay Person
Fritz, Georg A. M.D.; Niemczyk, Wolfgang E. M.D.
American Society of Anesthesiologists, Inc.

for more than 15 yr, this drug has been widely used in clinical practice, and because of its unique pharmacologic qualities and its excellent safety record, it was administered to millions of patients. Now, there is evidence emerging that this drug might have addictive properties that we did not consider. 2 The complete lack of withdrawal phenomena might prevent a potential victim from recognizing this addiction, and might prevent the careworkers involved from understanding and interpreting the problem as addiction, because with other substances the presence of withdrawal symptoms serves as a warning signal and increases readiness to intervene.
journals.lww.com/anesthesiology/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=2002&issue=02000&article=00039&type=fulltext

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 04:23 PM

Sheriff probes leaks by coroner's employees in Jackson case

L.A. County supervisors want to know if the singer's private records were breached and if information from his death investigation was illegally disclosed or sold.

(....)
"Supervisors were troubled by graphic descriptions of Jackson's body that surfaced in British tabloids and the New York Post before his funeral July 7, Ridley-Thomas said."

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-coroner-investigation25-2009jul25,0,3787500.story

I would LOVE to see people who released confidential data in hot water...

I just think of the Rihanna pic which was published by TMZ. That goes too far imo.

crazymama

07-28-2009, 04:31 PM

Good afternoon, all.

I was watching NG last night while that family friend of the Jackson's (guy with the hat) and Cherilyn Lee were on. They had both been on Jane's show, too. At any rate, the friend seemed to be confronting Lee. Did anyone else see? If so, do you know what he was driving at?
-----
My opinion, Nurse Lee gave MJ a infusion of Myers Cocktail and she sat with through the night. Myers Cocktail can help flush drugs from your system among its other uses. So maybe he saw something in that.

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 04:32 PM

Dr. Richmond? ugh... I have learned so much from you guys :tonguewag:

HLN's Jane Velez Mitchell is reporting not only on the state of Michael's bedroom (extreme disarray -- notes on wall ala John Nash (?)), but also on rumors that the house was always extremely hot because Michael complained about being cold.

Who is John Nash? I saw the JVM report on the messy room and notes. ???

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 04:35 PM

I posted a link...on the links thread....doll in a dress on his bed, sweltering heat upstairs...etc...

The link didn't work for me.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 04:36 PM

ah....so I take it those initial reports were true!!! Did anyone save the link to those reports? I dismissed it as fake and never bothered reading it the first time around.

I don't want to link them.

This is the "low version" by TMZ -- still sensationalizing enough imo.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/01/jackson-riddled-with-injection-marks/

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 04:37 PM

John Nash

John Nash, the mathematical genius, experienced a mental breakdown at age thirty. Particular emphasis is given to the problem of intimacy, a central feature of identity confusion, especially as this manifested itself in bisexual confusion. Special note is taken of the traditional psychoanalytic emphasis on the regressive pull in cases of preschizophrenic illness, together with Erikson's own emphasis on commitment pressures and consequent psychosocial and psychosexual foreclosures

http://www.springerlink.com/content/x431w401522w06p4/

Thanks. :)

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 04:49 PM

Yesterday it was discussed how many songs Michael would have performed.

"Each concert was expected to have 18-22 songs, with different sets for each."

http://www.sonyinsider.com/2009/07/27/sony-bringing-michael-jackson-concert-this-is-it-film-to-theaters-halloween-eve/

I recall (... that's not part of the posted article) that they either wanted to cut down the number or make him perform all with a break.

disneyfreak

07-28-2009, 04:51 PM

Good afternoon Daniel Green,

Thanks -- that's interesting. Ketamine is the drug known as "Special K", correct?

Yes, it is one and the same (sources include Disco Bloodbath by James St. James among others)

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 04:55 PM

I am very curious. I would like to compare the early reports to the actual autopsy report that we're expected to get this week.

Anyone else want to link it??? Please?

I don't support the way the information allegedly was obtained. Therefore I don't post a link. Moreover I don't support British tabloids like the "The Sun" or "NOTW" because of their (imo) unethical, non-factual reports. To post a link means that they get more readers.

You have to google for "thesun" (written in 1 word), "bald" and "bruised". Then you will find it.

crazymama

07-28-2009, 04:57 PM

Here's an interesting quote from a supposed Doctor of Pharmacology (he writes under a pseudonym) regarding the Myer's Cocktail:

http://scienceblogs.com/terrasig/2009/07/michael_jackson_cherilyn_lee_d.php

//snip//

While Myers actually recipe was never published, this is the formula that Gaby uses as published in his review:

2-5 mL of magnesium chloride hexahydrate 20% (assume w/v?)
1-3 mL of calcium gluconate 10%
1 mL of hydroxocobalamin 1,000 mcg/mL (one form of vitamin B12)
1 mL of pyridoxine hydrochloride 100 mg/mL (vitamin B6)
1 mL of dexpanthenol 250 mg/mL (vitamin B5)
1 mL of "B complex 100 (B complex)" (composition not defined in Gaby paper)
4-20 mL of Vitamin C 222 mg/mL (C)

Results of a recent trial of Myers' Cocktail (termed intravenous micronutrient therapy, or IVMT) in patients with fibromyalgia were published in the Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine but concluded that there was no statistically significant difference in symptoms between placebo and IVMT.

Most relevant to the Jackson case is that the safety of Myers' Cocktail is not yet clear. I am particularly concerned with the calcium composition of this intravenous brew; while not likely to be toxic on its own, if dosed as listed, I do have some concern if Mr Jackson already had pre-existing cardiac problems and/or was receiving drugs such as Demerol (meperidine) or Diprivan (propofol) which each pose a risk of cardiac toxicity.

So, while press reports will be focusing today on Diprivan (propofol), let us not forget to consider the potential contributions of this "natural, alternative" therapy in the sad case of his death.

//snip//

Regardless of how Michael died, it sounds as if the cumulative effects of all of this possible drug use put Michael at risk.

Again, they were all playing Russian Roulette with Michael's life. Even Nurse Cherilyn Lee, if this is true. imo
--------
But she knew he asked for diprivan before she gave him the cocktail. Most doctors ask what your taking and then check for interactions. And would her flushing his system,effect blood tests, or the autopsy?

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 04:58 PM

Oh, did she appear on SEVERAL shows -- not only one?

Oh, many more. It's incredible. She was even on the other night, can't remember the show, as one of three experts on a panel. She looked very out of place and didn't say much.

I didn't realized it was on Father's Day she claimed Mr Jackson called her for Diprivan and he was dead four days later. You pointed that out today. Why in the world would Mr Jackson call her since he had a doctor in the house supplying the drug. I don't find her credible, after all, everything thing she says is only coming from her about what a dead man said.

I found her hinky from the beginning. I think she is a con artist.

Good catch, thanks

all my opinion

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 05:00 PM

<snipped to address>

So, while press reports will be focusing today on Diprivan (propofol), let us not forget to consider the potential contributions of this "natural, alternative" therapy in the sad case of his death.

//snip//

Regardless of how Michael died, it sounds as if the cumulative effects of all of this possible drug use put Michael at risk.

Again, they were all playing Russian Roulette with Michael's life. Even Nurse Cherilyn Lee, if this is true. imo

:seeya: (lol on the manila folder label from last nite's thread!)

Bolding mine.

Just have to add this. I would guess a majority of "Doctors of Pharmacology" speak or write with disdain about treatments or therapies that don't involve a controlled substance someone is making lots of money on. His quotes around "natural, alternative" speak to his disdain for anything not brewed in a drug company's lab and intended to make big money for said drug company.

imo

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 05:04 PM

Oh, many more. It's incredible. She was even on the other night, can't remember the show, as one of three experts on a panel. She looked very out of place and didn't say much.

I didn't realized it was on Father's Day she claimed Mr Jackson called her for Diprivan and he was dead four days later. You pointed that out today. Why in the world would Mr Jackson call her since he had a doctor in the house supplying the drug. I don't find her credible, after all, everything thing she says is only coming from her about what a dead man said.

I found her hinky from the beginning. I think she is a con artist.

Good catch, thanks

I can't judge her because I didn't see these interviews....

Athena just posted on another thread that - according to the media reports - Jackson called her in April for the drug and 4 days before his death because he didn't feel well. Indeed it's a bit strange why he called HER for medical help as he had a personal doctor at home.

crazymama

07-28-2009, 05:10 PM

He asked her for the diprivan in April. She had been treating him since January.
---------
Ok, but I don't trust any of them. Would you know if anyone
other than a doctors or the nurse said he was using diprivan?

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 05:15 PM

I can't judge her because I didn't see these interviews....

Athena just posted on another thread that - according to the media reports - Jackson called her in April for the drug and 4 days before his death because he didn't feel well. Indeed it's a bit strange why he called HER for medical help as he had a personal doctor at home.

Also, when she gives her spiel, it's almost the same, word for word, like practice makes perfect or memorized. Recently, in one dissertation, I noticed she had left a little something out. That stood out like a sore thumb to me. If she gets paid for going on these shows, she is probably making some good money.

in my opinion

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 05:19 PM

Yes she had been treating with nutritional supplements from Jan-April. Dr. Murray entered the scene in May and moved in on 6/11.

May sound strange but maybe the "staff" that called her on 6/21 was Dr. Murray and he needed help and he would know that MJ trusted her and certainly would not want to take him to the hospital.
Just a thought ......

IMO Nurse Lee is probably the most credible in this whole event and she did NOT have to come forward.

She certainly WANTED to come forward. I don't buy for a minute a doctor would have Mr Jackson call her for anything. She's lying and knows the only one who could refute her is dead.

I don't find her credible at all.

in my opinion

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 05:28 PM

Yes she had been treating with nutritional supplements from Jan-April. Dr. Murray entered the scene in May and moved in on 6/11.

May sound strange but maybe the "staff" that called her on 6/21 was Dr. Murray and he needed help and he would know that MJ trusted her and certainly would not want to take him to the hospital.
Just a thought ......

IMO Nurse Lee is probably the most credible in this whole event and she did NOT have to come forward.

I think a little bit like retiredcop: Why doesn't she tell her message ONCE... and that's it.

But what I conclude from your post about 6/21 is: MJ already felt in a bad condition some days before his death. -- With this knowledge Dr. Murray acted even more recklessly. How could he administer the drug if MJ didn't feel healthy (maybe also as a result of the drug use the days before)?!!!

VC2

07-28-2009, 05:32 PM

:seeya: (lol on the manila folder label from last nite's thread!)

Bolding mine.

Just have to add this. I would guess a majority of "Doctors of Pharmacology" speak or write with disdain about treatments or therapies that don't involve a controlled substance someone is making lots of money on. His quotes around "natural, alternative" speak to his disdain for anything not brewed in a drug company's lab and intended to make big money for said drug company.

imo

Best comment i ever heard on the all natural craze as healthy is a nutritionist and dietician on PBS years ago. He was doing a talk and explaining what happens to foods in your body, its where i learned avocado's and salmon are very high fat foods. Anyway he talked about a woman who came up to him saying she "never used sugar, only honey because it is natural" when discussing how fats are afats and sugars are sugars in the body when metabolized, then looked at the audience and said you have to be careful, not everything natural is healthy...to drive his point home:

"Syphilis is natural, do you want that too?" :thumbsup:

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 05:38 PM

Seems to me the TH's have asked her on their shows for questions. She is not getting paid. CNN mainly -- and they do not pay someone to come on their show. JMO

I thought I was on Iggy. I believe all these shows pay. Maybe not so as to be considered pay, but they do find a way to compensate them very well.

in my opinion

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 05:40 PM

I really think he wasn't healthy at all....the man was a stick!

Like Philips said he didn't eat enough.

But I don't think he was too unhealthy. Soooooooo many people watched the rehearsals. He was described as "energetic", "magic" and -- ironically -- "dead-on".

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 05:46 PM

Best comment i ever heard on the all natural craze as healthy is a nutritionist and dietician on PBS years ago. He was doing a talk and explaining what happens to foods in your body, its where i learned avocado's and salmon are very high fat foods. Anyway he talked about a woman who came up to him saying she "never used sugar, only honey because it is natural" when discussing how fats are afats and sugars are sugars in the body when metabolized, then looked at the audience and said you have to be careful, not everything natural is healthy...to drive his point home:

"Syphilis is natural, do you want that too?" :thumbsup:

I can see you and I should not have a discussion on this topic, lol.

If all you came away with from that PBS show is salmon and avocado are "high fat foods" (and therefore bad, I assume?) and syphilis is natural har-har, it wasn't a very educational show, imo.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 05:50 PM

But she was the first person to mention diprovan. I believe it was on the phone on the LKL show. That was before we had ever heard it.

So how would she know about the dirivan if she's lying?

imo

Oh, I think she knew about the Diprivan. She was around there enough to know about that. I think she is just a con artist and telling her little story to get on shows. I think most of her spiel is made up about what went on between Mr Jackson and her in regard to the drug. Only he can refute it and he is dead. Also I think her being upset for poor Mr Jackson is a little over acted. I just don't think her and Mr Jackson were that close at all. I think she is lying about the call she received from Mr Jackson on Father's day. Mr Jackson had a live in doctor there so why would he call her?

in my opinion

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 05:55 PM

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 06:02 PM

Just found that video. Michael speaks but you can't hear what he says because people are just screaming....

Michael Jackson appears on Christian Audigier's birthday party
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWxY-dVNU10

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 06:04 PM

Maybe he reminded her advise that Diprivan is a risky, dangerous drug at the time he didn't feel well?

Could be, but I just have this feeling she is a con. If Mr Jackson didn't feel well, why didn't he ask the doctor he was paying all that money too?

I think she is making all that up about talking to him reference that drug including all that risky business stuff. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. She researched the drug, but not for Mr Jackson. It was for herself to know about it. I also do not think the police found out about Diprivan from her.

She probably saw all those vials around that house too. Why didn't she go directly to the police instead of calling LKL?

in my opinion

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 06:04 PM

Oh, I think she knew about the Diprivan. She was around there enough to know about that. I think she is just a con artist and telling her little story to get on shows. I think most of her spiel is made up about what went on between Mr Jackson and her in regard to the drug. Only he can refute it and he is dead. Also I think her being upset for poor Mr Jackson is a little over acted. I just don't think her and Mr Jackson were that close at all. I think she is lying about the call she received from Mr Jackson on Father's day. Mr Jackson had a live in doctor there so why would he call her?

in my opinion

The call or lack of one can be verified, if necessary, through phone records.

Seems to me MJ's doctors served one purpose, and those interested in the state of his health served another. I think it's entirely possible he didn't consult with his drug pushing doctors when he felt just generally lousy. He probably assumed (as many substance abusers do) the way he was feeling wasn't connected to the drugs he was ingesting. He might've assumed he needed nutritional counseling from Lee.

imo

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 06:10 PM

Also, when she gives her spiel, it's almost the same, word for word, like practice makes perfect or memorized. Recently, in one dissertation, I noticed she had left a little something out. That stood out like a sore thumb to me. If she gets paid for going on these shows, she is probably making some good money.

in my opinion

I remember what Mark Klaus has said many times "the truth never changes" and I find her extremely credible. There is no reason why her words would change.

imo

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 06:12 PM

The call or lack of one can be verified, if necessary, through phone records.

Seems to me MJ's doctors served one purpose, and those interested in the state of his health served another. I think it's entirely possible he didn't consult with his drug pushing doctors when he felt just generally lousy. He probably assumed (as many substance abusers do) the way he was feeling wasn't connected to the drugs he was ingesting. He might've assumed he needed nutritional counseling from Lee.

imo

OK then. I just have a different opinion of her. She should have gone to the police instead of LKL. I don't think the police will call to verify a phone call she said happened. I don't believe she will be an important witness at all. Maybe not even a witness period. She really didn't witness anything. Just hearsay from Mr Jackson.

in my opinion

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 06:13 PM

Could be, but I just have this feeling she is a con. If Mr Jackson didn't feel well, why didn't he ask the doctor he was paying all that money too?

I think she is making all that up about talking to him reference that drug including all that risky business stuff. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. She researched the drug, but not for Mr Jackson. It was for herself to know about it. I also do not think the police found out about Diprivan from her.

She probably saw all those vials around that house too. Why didn't she go directly to the police instead of calling LKL?

in my opinion

Why would she see them if they were in a bedroom closet?

imo

sofiesmom

07-28-2009, 06:15 PM

Can't tell you why but I've never had a good impression of Dr. Klein. There's something unhonest about him imo. I also disliked how he disclosed Michael's medical details on tv.No kidding! (about the blabbing of what I assumed to be confidential). Dr. Klein physically reminds me of Larry Flynt (sp). Something icky about him.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 06:15 PM

Why would she see them if they were in a bedroom closet?

imo

Not that it matters if she saw any vials laying around, but they may have been out from time to time. I'm saying she was probably aware of Diprivan and Mr Jackson since she was around there enough.

in my opinion

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 06:18 PM

Correction to previous post. Propofol may have been found at Neverland:

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/10/raid-at-michael-jacksons-neverland-ranch-netted-heavy-drugs

-- A vial of Versed -- a powerful sedative
-- Several IV bags containing "a milky white fluid, located in a small cardboard box on top of the bathtub." Propofol and other anesthesias are milky white. As we first reported, Propofol was in Jackson's home the day he died.
-- A vial of Promethazine -- an antihistamine with strong sedative effects
-- A bottle of Alprazolam (generic for Xanax, a powerful anti-anxiety drug)
-- A bottle of Percocet -- a painkiller
-- A syringe
-- A vial with Demerol in it
-- Numerous loose pills outside bottles
-- A bottle of Prednisone -- a steroid
-- Ery-tab -- an antibiotic
-- Prescriptions for Xanax that had been filled
-- A prescription for Alprazolam
-- Oxygen tanks
-- IV stands

Can that be pre-mixed and kept for any length of time?

in my opinion

VC2

07-28-2009, 06:19 PM

I can see you and I should not have a discussion on this topic, lol.

If all you came away with from that PBS show is salmon and avocado are "high fat foods" (and therefore bad, I assume?) and syphilis is natural har-har, it wasn't a very educational show, imo.

:laugh: hey that was 20 plus years ago or longer! it actually was a show that inspired me to learn more about what happens to foods and things when they enter our system. He was very good and in no way saying natural things were bad but warning people that "all natural" does not always mean safe or good for you. IIRC it was in the time when people died from taking to many vitamins, or went vegetarian without checking out how many proteins they needed to stay healthy. Also the diets to lose weight, many people thought using honey would not be as bad calorie wise as white sugar. He used the example to make a point, the show itself was very good. just i love avocados and was horrified to realize they were so high in fat..quite happy about the salmon lol.

My doctor is like athena's, he prefers natural therapies and he is where i discovered lyseine as an immune booster and treatment of cold sores, but prescribes when needed.

MJ's Meyers Cocktail may be perfectly healthy but interact with some other meds he took, many many people just assume that if its natural vitamin supplements and therapies it can cause no harm, which i think even you will agree is not always the case especially when interacting with other substances. Foxglove produces digitalis and is an excellent plant for a naturall based treatment for heart disease but if someone without a heart problem ate it or ate to much of it, its lethal.

but..you are right i am more the "give me a pill" type rather than a give me an alternative therapy, especially if it means eating rabbit food..salads and stuff :blushing:

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 06:20 PM

------------

From what i had seen, i didn't find him good at all. If u look at the part when the guitarist comes on the stage and MJ goes up to that person to rock out, he gets disoriented.....he doesn't know what to do. watch it and see. jmo

I did watch it. He looked very energetic to me and evidently the rehearsals are great if companies are willing to pay many millions for them. How many hours of video are they buying?

I just don't think we can size him up in a short clip.

imo

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 06:23 PM

I did watch it. He looked very energetic to me and evidently the rehearsals are great if companies are willing to pay many millions for them. How many hours of video are they buying?

I just don't think we can size him up in a short clip.

imo

I thought he looked sluggish, pale, and out of breath. I wonder what the tempo of that music was......slow motion?

in my opinion

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 06:24 PM

OK then. I just have a different opinion of her. She should have gone to the police instead of LKL. I don't think the police will call to verify a phone call she said happened. I don't believe she will be an important witness at all. Maybe not even a witness period. She really didn't witness anything. Just hearsay from Mr Jackson.

in my opinion

I'm put off by her ongoing TV appearances, but I'm not prepared to call her a liar. LE has her MJ file -- I'm sure they've figured out by now whether or not she's credible or has anything of value to add to the investigation.

I do think it's entirely likely MJ had a nutritionist on board. He'd be crazy not to, imo. And I think it's conceivable she was concerned about his health in a way none of his many doctors were ... and he may have sensed that. I'd bet even MJ knew it wasn't drugs that would get him through those concerts, it was halfway decent health.

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 06:26 PM

IMO He was a walking breathing skeleton with skin stretched over it.

Energetic? .....maybe...but no way could he have kept that up in his emaciated condition imo I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't something in that doctors "bag of tricks" to make MJ feel energetic. imo

I sure didn't see that. The photos of him taken during rehearsals were awesome and he looked better than he had in years. He looked more like the MJ of yesterday and even the smile was like he use to smile.

He has always been a thin man and just the 3 or 4 hours extreme exertion would make anyone lose weight. Just try a strenuous workout as hard as you can go for 4 hours....I betcha we all would shed weight.:smile:

imo

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 06:28 PM

No kidding! (about the blabbing of what I assumed to be confidential). Dr. Klein physically reminds me of Larry Flynt (sp). Something icky about him.

Totally. Ugh. :tongueside:

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 06:28 PM

Could be, but I just have this feeling she is a con. If Mr Jackson didn't feel well, why didn't he ask the doctor he was paying all that money too?*

I think she is making all that up about talking to him reference that drug including all that risky business stuff. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. She researched the drug, but not for Mr Jackson. It was for herself to know about it. I also do not think the police found out about Diprivan from her.

in my opinion

I've watched now some interviews on youtube. I don't know. There are some people I immediately feel the vibe "genuine" (for example Dorian Holley) or "a bit fishy" (for example Dr. Klein)... but I can't say anything about her.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 06:30 PM

I'm put off by her ongoing TV appearances, but I'm not prepared to call her a liar. LE has her MJ file -- I'm sure they've figured out by now whether or not she's credible or has anything of value to add to the investigation.

I do think it's entirely likely MJ had a nutritionist on board. He'd be crazy not to, imo. And I think it's conceivable she was concerned about his health in a way none of his many doctors were ... and he may have sensed that. I'd bet even MJ knew it wasn't drugs that would get him through those concerts, it was halfway decent health.

I don't doubt she was his nutritionist or whatever she is licensed to be.
I wonder why she left? Was she fired?

RED FLAG She went to LKL with her concerns and not the police.

I can't get around that.

in my opinion

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 06:30 PM

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 06:31 PM

I thought he looked sluggish, pale, and out of breath. I wonder what the tempo of that music was......slow motion?

in my opinion

It was a rendition of a song and dance he had put out years before. Plus I heard he had added new dance steps that were going to be in some of the shows too.

You mean where they are walking sort of like robots. I would think it would be a slow tempo.

I sure wish I could have seen the hours of tape they say they have instead of just a short snippet. Maybe when they finally decide who is going to pay the most millions for it I will get to see it. I sure hope so.

imo

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 06:35 PM

I sure didn't see that. The photos of him taken during rehearsals were awesome and he looked better than he had in years. He looked more like the MJ of yesterday and even the smile was like he use to smile.

He has always been a thin man and just the 3 or 4 hours extreme exertion would make anyone lose weight. Just try a strenuous workout as hard as you can go for 4 hours....I betcha we all would shed weight.:smile:

imo

I was in the grocery checkout line a few weeks ago and picked up a magazine (can't remember which one) with an MJ retrospective. There were lots of pics of him as a young kid, as a young man, in his 20's and 30's, etc. I held the magazine open and pointed out to my sweetie how thin Michael always was. Some people are just naturally thin. Like me. And it gets old hearing there must be something wrong with me. I'm very healthy, and I don't try to be thin, I just am.

If MJ hadn't been a very thin kid, even in comparison to his brothers, I'd agree his weight was all about the drugs. I don't think it was. However, thin people have no "reserves" as I like to call it -- when we go down, we go down hard, usually.

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 06:36 PM

If his weight was actually 112 pounds...would you still say he looked great?

Who beside the tabloids have said he weighed 112.

His weight does not phase me. He has always been a very thin man and underweight according to his height. Most dancers tend to be smaller so that is understandable to me.

It is also understandable to me that he would lose weight from the exertion of his rehearsal routines.

All I know he looked good to me and healthy. Much more like the younger Michael with his hair pulled back with the same nice smile.

imo

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 06:36 PM

I'm put off by her ongoing TV appearances, but I'm not prepared to call her a liar. LE has her MJ file -- I'm sure they've figured out by now whether or not she's credible or has anything of value to add to the investigation.

I do think it's entirely likely MJ had a nutritionist on board. He'd be crazy not to, imo. And I think it's conceivable she was concerned about his health in a way none of his many doctors were ... and he may have sensed that. I'd bet even MJ knew it wasn't drugs that would get him through those concerts, it was halfway decent health.

It would have been a "decent" death if he at least could have done 1 concert to feel the love of the audience again. I just don't get over it that he couldn't experience it anymore.

But at least the people who worked together with him said he felt confident and happy before he died. At least he didn't die feeling the hate of all the years before.

Philips also said he enjoyed the applause when he announced his concerts and the standing ovations when he visited the musical "Oliver" in London.

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 06:41 PM

------------

Didn't AEG say that MJ would rarely show up for rehearsals? So i don't see how he did such rigorous workouts. I just read in one of the links today that when the paramedics got to his house, they thought they were working on an old man. That tells me a lot. jmo

I don't know. I read many articles and comments from the people that actually were in the rehearsal routine. Their summation more or less was "Mike was back." paraphrasing

So what? The emt's could have been in their 20s and everyone in their 50s is considered old by them.

Imo, MJ may have been 50 but he died looking young. They will always have his beautiful rehearsals photo shoots to show that.

imo

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 06:41 PM

------------

Didnt AEG say that MJ would rarely show up for rehearsals? So i dont see how he did such rigorous workouts. I just read in one of the links today that when the paramedics got to his house, they thought they were working on an old man. That tells me a lot. jmo

No, his co-workers said opposite. One quote is:

"Until the last hour of rehearsals, Jackson maintained a ferocious, perfectionist pace, says Holley, who, after decades working with the singer, says he was still astonished by his vocal and physical prowess."

http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

Quotes by AEG you find here:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-jackson-rehearsal27-2009jun27,0,4699249.story

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 06:42 PM

I've watched now some interviews on youtube. I don't know. There are some people I immediately feel the vibe "genuine" (for example Dorian Holley) or "a bit fishy" (for example Dr. Klein)... but I can't say anything about her.

She's a good con.

in my opinion

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 06:43 PM

:laugh: hey that was 20 plus years ago or longer! it actually was a show that inspired me to learn more about what happens to foods and things when they enter our system. He was very good and in no way saying natural things were bad but warning people that "all natural" does not always mean safe or good for you. IIRC it was in the time when people died from taking to many vitamins, or went vegetarian without checking out how many proteins they needed to stay healthy. Also the diets to lose weight, many people thought using honey would not be as bad calorie wise as white sugar. He used the example to make a point, the show itself was very good. just i love avocados and was horrified to realize they were so high in fat..quite happy about the salmon lol.

My doctor is like athena's, he prefers natural therapies and he is where i discovered lyseine as an immune booster and treatment of cold sores, but prescribes when needed.

MJ's Meyers Cocktail may be perfectly healthy but interact with some other meds he took, many many people just assume that if its natural vitamin supplements and therapies it can cause no harm, which i think even you will agree is not always the case especially when interacting with other substances. Foxglove produces digitalis and is an excellent plant for a naturall based treatment for heart disease but if someone without a heart problem ate it or ate to much of it, its lethal.

but..you are right i am more the "give me a pill" type rather than a give me an alternative therapy, especially if it means eating rabbit food..salads and stuff :blushing:

You're not alone, VC2. It's a major problem in our country.

Everyone wants to fix a lifetime of bad habits overnight, with a pill.

All the latest drugs and fake sugar diet foods have really done a number on us -- we're sicker, fatter and more incapacitated than ever before in history. We're raising the first ever generation of kids who will have shorter lifespans than their parents. It's scary.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 06:44 PM

I don't know. I read many articles and comments from the people that actually were in the rehearsal routine. Their summation more or less was "Mike was back." paraphrasing

So what? The emt's could have been in their 20s and everyone in their 50s is considered old by them.

Imo, MJ may have been 50 but he died looking young. They will always have his beautiful rehearsals photo shoots to show that.

imo

Mark Lester (friend)
Kenny Ortega (choreographer)
Ken Ehrlich (involved in former productions, not this one)
Randy Phillips (promoter)
Frank Dileo (manager)
Ed Alonzo (magician),
Max Miller (dispatch manager at the studio)
Johnny Caswell (co-owner of CenterStaging in Burbank)
Dorian Holley (vocal director)

called him "energetic", "upbeat", "determined", "focused".

Can't imagine that all these different people lied. -- The magician or Mark Lester, for example, have no selfish interest to say something positive which isn't true imo.

What I saw in the video which was released just confirmed what these people said.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 06:45 PM

It was a rendition of a song and dance he had put out years before. Plus I heard he had added new dance steps that were going to be in some of the shows too.

You mean where they are walking sort of like robots. I would think it would be a slow tempo.

I sure wish I could have seen the hours of tape they say they have instead of just a short snippet. Maybe when they finally decide who is going to pay the most millions for it I will get to see it. I sure hope so.

imo

No not that. It was when he tried to rock out with the instrument and almost fell on his face.

in my opinion

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 06:46 PM

That's why I said, "if" IF the 112 pounds is indeed correct...I can't believe you would still stand behind the statement he looked good and healthy.

I have no reason to lie. IMO, he did look good no matter what his weight happens to be. The photos of him in the rehearsals were awesome.

If you see something else then that is you but I don't understand why you think I have to agree that he looked horrible or unhealthy. IMO he did look healthier than I had seen him in years.

imo

crazymama

07-28-2009, 06:47 PM

In the rehearsal video's he looks full in the face and not gaunt,
but could that be because of the facial reconstruction Dr. Klein
was doing and not due to good health?(that could be where the
diprivan cravings began again too)
I can't tell much from the rehearse l clip one way or the other. But I
did think he looked and sounded extra different on the tour announcement clip. my opinions

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 06:48 PM

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 06:48 PM

Hey retirecop...yikes ..it does seem you just dont trust people eh?...LOL

Anyway, I find the nurse quite credible..her initial story is being manipulated .thus leads to all sorts of speculations...It was her initial interview that was the "Aha: moment to me...

First, she spoke about the Diprivan and convo with MJ during her latter dayz with MJ..and her concern, lead her to look it up, converse with other HC professionals..and her concern was so profound at that time ( April2009) she brought the book home and showed it to MJ..explaining the dangers...I do believe he had been given this drug while he was at Dr. Kleins office...not at home at this point...

Second, I think it was after Nurse Lee left, Dr. M. came into the picture and initiated Diprivan at that point( in the rental home).."Opportunity of a Lifetime" for Dr. M.
It was after over 6 weeks of treatments by Dr.M. he started to have terrible symptoms...and called Nurse Lee (in Florida)..compaining about chills, one side of body, and hot other side of body, etc..and Nurse Lee told him to go to the hospital ER..she even said, she was concerned..what could she do???she was in Florida???..All that rings true to me!!

Third, I think Nurse Lee could be an important witness, if their is a court case..she can give a true time to events as she knew them..Hence, the retreival of her records by the "Investigating Team"..she turned them over...

Fourth, many people are always skepticle...why?...I know 15 minutes of fame...She could have kept her mouth shut, and lived with her guilt feelings for not doing something when she felt so concerned...THEN again..if she did..she would have been crucified by the media, fans ..for "something"..trying to make money or looing for a payoff...You know, it is a real slippery slope to try and help..especially when you get judged for doing so!!!

Off my soapbox...LOL

I like Nurse Lee....appreciate her candor..and truly think she feels just heartbroken!!

LMS

No tomato throwing please??..Im ducking as I type..

The only problem is, if she was so concerned, why did she not go to the police? Why did she call LKL.

I think she is a con artist and wanted on TV.

in my opinion

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 06:49 PM

I don't doubt she was his nutritionist or whatever she is licensed to be.
I wonder why she left? Was she fired?

RED FLAG She went to LKL with her concerns and not the police.

I can't get around that.

in my opinion

Well, if she was fired, she'd be one in a long line, eh?

But I agree about going on TV vs. getting in touch with LE. Maybe she tried and they didn't pick up on it right away?

Who knows. I'm not trying to make excuses for the woman - I have no idea what her deal is. Just not prepared to call her a phony yet, and admittedly, she didn't set my teeth on edge like some others, like that Dr. Klein character. :scared:

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 06:49 PM

No not that. It was when he tried to rock out with the instrument and almost fell on his face.

in my opinion

I really don't know and until I see all of the videos I am not going to assess his abilities on just a small snippet in time. From what I saw I thoroughly enjoyed it and wished they had shown more.

Rocked out with the instrument? Maybe I missed that. He was rocking out when he came up to the guitarist.

imo

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 06:51 PM

------------

its called sales pitches. jmo

See my other post above. There were many people present who have no selfish interests: The magician or also Ken Ehrlich who had nothing to do with the concerts. He was just invited to watch.

Furthermore I could verify it by myself by the video which was released. He looked much more confident than during this dance routine with Chris Tucker which was some years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_8t-e-F2qs

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 06:51 PM

------------

its called sales pitches. jmo

Sales pitches for what. All the tickets were sold out already.

imo

VC2

07-28-2009, 06:52 PM

If his weight was actually 112 pounds...would you still say he looked great?

Last I heard was from Rolling Stone, the issue that hit the stands last week, 127 pounds.

IMO

o/t for those who don't know, poster Hannah Rose's brother was murdered on friday, her thread is in current crimes forum

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 06:52 PM

What I believe is that Klein's job was to make him look like the 80s MJ again... -- (This is an opinion only.)

I believe that was his goal too. MJ wanted to go back in time and Dr. K was assisting him in that.

imo

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 06:56 PM

Well, if she was fired, she'd be one in a long line, eh?

But I agree about going on TV vs. getting in touch with LE. Maybe she tried and they didn't pick up on it right away?

Who knows. I'm not trying to make excuses for the woman - I have no idea what her deal is. Just not prepared to call her a phony yet, and admittedly, she didn't set my teeth on edge like some others, like that Dr. Klein character. :scared:

LOL Yes, she is more pleasant to take then him by far.

in my opinion

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 06:57 PM

Last I heard was from Rolling Stone, the issue that hit the stands last week, 127 pounds.

IMO

o/t for those who don't know, poster Hannah Rose's brother was murdered on friday, her thread is in current crimes forum

I bet even in his prime MJ has never weighed more than a 140 pounds soaking wet.

O/T
Oh no, that is so sad......prayers for Hannah. How terrible.

imo

ScoobyDoo

07-28-2009, 06:57 PM

The only problem is, if she was so concerned, why did she not go to the police? Why did she call LKL.

I think she is a con artist and wanted on TV.

in my opinion

Maybe she did go to the police, and they ignored her... so she went to the media.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 06:58 PM

I really don't know and until I see all of the videos I am not going to assess his abilities on just a small snippet in time. From what I saw I thoroughly enjoyed it and wished they had shown more.

Rocked out with the instrument? Maybe I missed that. He was rocking out when he came up to the guitarist.

imo

Yes, the instrument was the guitar.

in my opinion

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 07:01 PM

-------------

I'm not talking about the concert tickets. I'm talking about the future sales of the rehearsals. jmo

:lol: OH!

So you think Sony and others are just bidding millions and millions for hours of MJ rehearsal videos they haven't even seen yet?:lol:

imo

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 07:01 PM

Maybe she did go to the police, and they ignored her... so she went to the media.

Oh yeh, that must be it. LOL

in my opinion

daniel green

07-28-2009, 07:02 PM

Dr. Richmond? ugh... I have learned so much from you guys :tonguewag:

HLN's Jane Velez Mitchell is reporting not only on the state of Michael's bedroom (extreme disarray -- notes on wall ala John Nash (?)), but also on rumors that the house was always extremely hot because Michael complained about being cold.

I saw the notes on the walls thing last night on LKL.

Very odd.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 07:03 PM

No not that. It was when he tried to rock out with the instrument and almost fell on his face.

in my opinion

Can't see in the video what you describe...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMYs3o1z86w

0:58 is the coolest part imo. What I love about the video is that he holds his head up -- he doesn't look beaten like all the years before.

Furthermore I can't imagine Sony would pay 60,000,000 US $ for the footage if it's not worth.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 07:04 PM

Someone had to hook her up with Larry King. You can't just call in. It was arranged for her to call and discuss the diprivan.

imo

She still made a choice to tell her story to the media instead of the police. I believe she lost her credibility right there. Her motive was her 15 minutes of fame.

in my opinion

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 07:07 PM

---------------
I didnt say they lied. I think they said it out of respect for his family. jmo

A lie is a lie -- no matter if it's told out of respect or for selfish reasons. I simply think they didn't lie.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 07:10 PM

I am very curious. I would like to compare the early reports to the actual autopsy report that we're expected to get this week.

Anyone else want to link it??? Please?

I bet they were right on the money. What do you think?

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 07:10 PM

Last I heard was from Rolling Stone, the issue that hit the stands last week, 127 pounds.

IMO

o/t for those who don't know, poster Hannah Rose's brother was murdered on friday, her thread is in current crimes forum

I tried to get the Rolling Stone special edition imported but failed... and now try to get it by a different distribution channel. Did you like it and do you think I would like it?

Hannah Rose is a poster, right?

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 07:11 PM

---------------
Absolutely. i dont see how u think thats funny. jmo

If you think it's worthless but Sony pays 60 millions it IS funny...

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 07:13 PM

I get it..you dont trust her..but you asked the question~~~ why didnt she go to the police...because she is a professional HC giver, and is bound by HIPPA..and since he only talked about it..and she councilled him about it..and the dangers..and IF she went to the police..what is she going to say?..what could have the police done?..It's much like the old dileama..you x threatens you..but hasnt done anything yet?...Accuse..but nothing can be done unless the x-breaks the law..and its even worse for Nurse Lee..she is bound by confidentiality..and unless she thought he could give himself this drug..she knew he couldnt... Second question~~~ She was in shock about what happened to MJ..and no one even bothered to call her..no one at that point even bothered to look back at MJ's past medical people at that point...so felt so strong about what might have happened..

Just my thought on her possible reasoning...Just think how you might have judged her if she had of come out before MJ died/?..She'd be a quack, looking for spotlight, angry she wasnt working for Mj..etc..sour grapes..looking for pay off..All those things happen to all people who come out and say anything about a star..or an icon...Sad but true..Shes damned if she does and damned if she didnt..

LMS

I just think she wanted her 15 minutes of fame and dreamed up these imaginary talks with Mr Jackson to sound very riveting on TV. The public bought it and she went on to many more shows. I don't find her credible at all.

in my opinion

daniel green

07-28-2009, 07:15 PM

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 07:17 PM

----------------

U can believe what u want. Thats your perogative. jmo

Yes, I believe what I see - what I saw in the video with my own eyes.

Art is in the eye of the beholder... and if you don't like his performance it's your prerogative.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 07:22 PM

snipped

http://www.koaa.com/news/entertainment/x1226113995/Nurse-says-Jackson-lost-5-pounds-a-day

How very weird, though. This would certainly rule out the lupus, I do believe.

The C-reactive protein test? Nothing there (The test is a general marker of inflammation throughout the body, and can rule out things like coronary heart disease and cardiovascular disease). His hemoglobin A1c, which would have indicated diabetes, fine. His liver functions, kidney functions, they were all fine. He was healthy.”

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 07:23 PM

How did she get on the Larry King Show?

The first she was heard from was when she called LKL.

in my opinion

ScoobyDoo

07-28-2009, 07:23 PM

------------

I'm sure that if that wss the case, she would have mentioned it. jmo

I don't recall that she mentioned having a Phd either.

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 07:23 PM

But she was the first person to mention diprovan. I believe it was on the phone on the LKL show. That was before we had ever heard it.

So how would she know about the dirivan if she's lying?

imo

I was just going to say that, but I am catching up here. I think she was the first one to bring it up. I then called my ER nurse friend to find out what it was.

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 07:24 PM

Yes, I believe what I see - what I saw in the video with my own eyes.

Art is in the eye of the beholder... and if you don't like his performance it's your prerogative.

I just watched it again and enjoyed it so much.

I would have loved to see the entire rehearsals.

I heard that Sony has even bid higher than 60 million. I read on a site, I think yesterday, that it is up to 75 million now. When is AEG going to decide? When they get the last bid, I guess.

imo

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 07:26 PM

Michael Jackson: House where star died will become memorial

A spokesman for Mr Audigier, 51, said: "Christian Audigier, a friend of Michael Jackson, will buy this property to make it a place dedicated to the memory of the star to which the public and fans will have access."

The spokesman said Audigier wanted to "keep intact the precious moments he shared with Michael Jackson ."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5744468/Michael-Jackson-House-where-star-died-will-become-memorial.html

daniel green

07-28-2009, 07:27 PM

Who beside the tabloids have said he weighed 112.

snipped

He weighed only 110 at his arrest, right?

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 07:28 PM

crazymama

07-28-2009, 07:29 PM

What I believe is that Klein's job was to make him look like the 80s MJ again... -- (This is an opinion only.)
-----------
Oh yes I thought he looked good to in the rehearsel clip, but
I'm just supposing it could be due to the work Klein did and not from healthy living. I don't know what to believe about all of this
anymore, except I hold some doctors accountable.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 07:33 PM

Interesting write up too!

She sure downplays that. Just adds to her credibility IMO

snipped.

Ugh. Did you see where she got that PhD??? :ohmy:

And it sounds like a big, hot mess.

From her bio (the "write up") at her site, forensicspy linked to:

She believes that “A disease is nothing more than malnutrition left untreated.”
:rolleyes:

At NMIHC, Lee practices intergrated healthcare...IV Vitamin and Chelation treatments; and, IV Treatments for drug abuse and other medical/nutritional conditions. Hepatitis treatments are also available to assist the healing process.

NMIHC specializes in: Bio-Energetic Meridian Assessment (BEMA); Energy Medicine; Hyperthermia Full Body Treatment; Comprehensive Nutrition/Diet Evaluation; Quantum Medicine; Pain Management Auriculotherapy; and, Acoustic Cardiograph (ACG). The latest addition to the clinic is the Digital Arterial Pulsewave Analyzer which clinical applications includes reflects arterial

Chelation?????????? Are you kidding me??????? :ohmy:

Hyperthermia??????? Quantom medicine???? Pulsewave analyzer?

And MJ called HER because his kids were sick, and that's how they met?????????

crazymama

07-28-2009, 07:36 PM

---------------------

About the tour announcement clip..........i said it before and will say it again.............that was not MJ.........that was an imposter. That guy has a MickJaggar mouth. Although he was a good act, he was not MJ. jmo
----------
I thought the accent was different. Specifically with a few words,
like the word 'call' stuck out for me. But I can say things like this cause I'm crazy.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 07:38 PM

I get it..you dont trust her..but you asked the question~~~ why didnt she go to the police...because she is a professional HC giver, and is bound by HIPPA..snipped

Sure hasn't stopped her from giving detailed info on shows, has it?

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 07:38 PM

He weighed only 110 at his arrest, right?

I don't know. I didn't really keep up with his weight. I do know I felt he was under tremendous stress and anxiety though so I can see eating not on his list of priorities plus everyone around him said MJ was never much of an eater anyway.

I can't fault that myself. I don't eat much either.

imo

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 07:41 PM

How very weird, though. This would certainly rule out the lupus, I do believe.

Where did the "fact" that MJ had Lupus start anyway?

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 07:42 PM

Where did the "fact" that MJ had Lupus start anyway?

Dr. Klein on LKL confirmed it as an alleged "fact".

VC2

07-28-2009, 07:42 PM

I tried to get the Rolling Stone special edition imported but failed... and now try to get it by a different distribution channel. Did you like it and do you think I would like it?

Hannah Rose is a poster, right?

I haven't been able to get it myself, i live in the boonies, what i heard was from the RS reporter on HLN week before last or last week early when they were talking about the special edition about his final days.

Yes hannah rose is a poster here.

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 07:42 PM

kellabeck

07-28-2009, 07:44 PM

I just think she wanted her 15 minutes of fame and dreamed up these imaginary talks with Mr Jackson to sound very riveting on TV. The public bought it and she went on to many more shows. I don't find her credible at all.

in my opinion

The nurse-practitioner/nutritionist who tried to dissuade Jackson from using Diprivan??

She's the most credible person of all in this. She alone acted with integrity. I find her totally believable.

SHE was the first and only person to mention Diprivan and thereafter evidence backed her up.

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 07:45 PM

---------------------

About the tour announcement clip..........i said it before and will say it again.............that was not MJ.........that was an imposter. That guy has a MickJaggar mouth. Although he was a good act, he was not MJ. jmo

So you think Sony, who probably knows MJ better by sight, than MJ did himself is so gullible that they are willing to pay 60 million for an impostor?

That is really stretching it, imo.

Sony didn't get to be a powerhouse by being stupid.

This was MJ and he was back to entertain the world again imo.:smile:

imo

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 07:46 PM

Dr. Klein on LKL confirmed it as an alleged "fact".

Is he the only one to have said this?

VC2

07-28-2009, 07:47 PM

I saw the notes on the walls thing last night on LKL.

Very odd.

i don;t know daniel, i feel like its gone from the sublime to the ridiculous listening to JVM on it. She even pointed it but seemed to think it was necessary to cover as if it had something to do with how he died, that his room was hot because he always felt cold, he had post it notes on the wall and it was messy.

I don't see any of the above either telling of anything, or even odd. Some people really feel the cold and with auto immune diseases can feel it more from that too. He was a musician, a writer, makes sense that as a phrase or a thought came to him he put it down on a post it and put it on the wall. No reason he had to write it down in a book all the time..in fact seeing them all the time is perhaps how he brought lyrics together for a song. Just a guess but certainly not unlikely imo. Far as his room being a mess, well god forbid anyone sees mine :laugh:

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 07:49 PM

The nurse-practitioner/nutritionist who tried to dissuade Jackson from using Diprivan??

She's the most credible person of all in this. She alone acted with integrity. I find her totally believable.

SHE was the first and only person to mention Diprivan and thereafter evidence backed her up.

ITA!

I find her a breath of fresh air. If MJ had listened to her he would still be alive instead of getting Murray that didn't even monitor him or administer the drug correctly.

I know she is devastated. She seems to have genuinely cared about Michael.

So sad.

imo

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 07:51 PM

"alleged fact"...roflmao! Love it!

I never believed he had lupus.....still don't believe it.

I don't believe it either.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 07:53 PM

-----------
Oh yes I thought he looked good to in the rehearsel clip, but
I'm just supposing it could be due to the work Klein did and not from healthy living. I don't know what to believe about all of this
anymore, except I hold some doctors accountable.

Well, I didn't mean to start a new rumor... LOL. What I posted before is not what I've read but just what I thought. During the rehearsal his hair was much 80s, too.

I believe 95% of all celebrities over 25 had plastic surgery. There's always a poll on TMZ "good docs" or "good genes"? It's impossible that someone looks as good as 20 years before because of "good genes".

My personal opinion is that cheek implants which seem to be popular in the US don't look pretty... but in general I'm not against plastic surgery. Everyone has to decide about on one's own.

Therefore I would appreciate if MJ made an effort to get back his 80s looks.

VC2

07-28-2009, 07:58 PM

How very weird, though. This would certainly rule out the lupus, I do believe.

Lupus goes into remission and flares up then remission, and iirc Deepak Chopra said he was in remission at the time of his death. MJ had sent over a copy of his song/s under big security for him to hear shortly before, they were still talking a lot.

IMO

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 08:02 PM

"alleged fact"...roflmao! Love it!

I never believed he had lupus.....still don't believe it.

I doubt Klein's credibility -- for many reasons.

We have a different opinion on MJ as a person. Nevertheless I try not to have double standards, means: to believe the good things about MJ but not the bad things if both comes from the same source.

But this is what Michael said... and it makes very sad:

"I have a skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of the skin. It’s something that I can’t help. People make up stories that I don’t want to be who I am. It hurts me."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8121209.stm

His words seem to be genuine. To summarize: I believe he had a skin disorder... but I don't believe it because Dr. Klein said so.

VC2

07-28-2009, 08:03 PM

Cha-ching. :rolleyes:

agreed. leeches...

imo

VC2

07-28-2009, 08:03 PM

Is he the only one to have said this?

No Dr. Deepak Chopra mentioned it as well.

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 08:04 PM

I doubt Klein's credibility -- for many reasons.

We have a different opinion on MJ as a person. Nevertheless I try not to have double standards, means: to believe the good things about MJ but not the bad things if both comes from the same source.

But this is what Michael said... and it makes very sad:

"I have a skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of the skin. It’s something that I can’t help. People make up stories that I don’t want to be who I am. It hurts me."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8121209.stm

His words seem to be genuine. To summarize: I believe he had a skin disorder... but I don't believe it because Dr. Klein said so.

Wasn't he talking about the Vitiligo, not the lupus?

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 08:13 PM

So you think Sony, who probably knows MJ better by sight, than MJ did himself is so gullible that they are willing to pay 60 million for an impostor?

That is really stretching it, imo.

Sony didn't get to be a powerhouse by being stupid.

This was MJ and he was back to entertain the world again imo.:smile:

imo

No need to rehash it. The topic was discussed before -- among others Bubbles and I discussed it...

post #83
http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?t=355615&page=3

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 08:17 PM

Wasn't he talking about the Vitiligo, not the lupus?

As far as I know lupus and vitiligo go together for any reason which has to do with antibodies against the pigment cells.

crazymama

07-28-2009, 08:19 PM

---------------

If she cared so much, why did she not report this to someone? Why wait till hes dead? jmo
----------
Would Nurse Lee be obligated as a professional, since she looked
up the medicine and have read about its dangers and abuse, have
to report this to medical or police authorities?

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 08:21 PM

This is where i have to LOL..Yep..Dr. Klein diagnoised MJ on the initial visit to his office..and he even recounted how he diagnoised it..Yikes....First visit, ( 25 years ago or more)..MJ walks into his office..(referred to him by a friend)..hummmm.He noted right away..a red rash...across his nose..and right away knew he had "Lupus"...No labwork..no medical investigations...just noted this facial indication...His difinative diagnoises..and I dont believe he ever did any further testings..

Dr. Klein.. the dermatoligist....It's rather out of his league...Auto-immune disease such as Lupus can effect many different systems..and the skin (butterfly mask) is one of the minor ones...I wonder if he ever referred MJ to a specialist?...

I dont trust Dr.Klein at all...He appears to be an opportunist..and facilitator..It is only my impression..and my opinion..but he really does give me the heebeegeebees

LMS

Why on his initial visit? Did Klein say so?

I don't trust Klein, either. For some reasons I believe there's could be something true about the rumor that he's the biological father of MJ's kids. His statements when questioned on the topic were quite strange.

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 08:21 PM

This is where i have to LOL..Yep..Dr. Klein diagnoised MJ on the initial visit to his office..and he even recounted how he diagnoised it..Yikes....First visit, ( 25 years ago or more)..MJ walks into his office..(referred to him by a friend)..hummmm.He noted right away..a red rash...across his nose..and right away knew he had "Lupus"...No labwork..no medical investigations...just noted this facial indication...His difinative diagnoises..and I dont believe he ever did any further testings..

Dr. Klein.. the dermatoligist....It's rather out of his league...Auto-immune disease such as Lupus can effect many different systems..and the skin (butterfly mask) is one of the minor ones...I wonder if he ever referred MJ to a specialist?...

I dont trust Dr.Klein at all...He appears to be an opportunist..and facilitator..It is only my impression..and my opinion..but he really does give me the heebeegeebees

LMS

We are sure in agreement on the heebeegeebees. :laugh:
I hadn't heard about the first look diagnosis. Yikes is right. I just don't believe it. The Vitiligo maybe, but not the Lupus.

sofiesmom

07-28-2009, 08:22 PM

I tried to get the Rolling Stone special edition imported but failed... and now try to get it by a different distribution channel. Did you like it and do you think I would like it?

Hannah Rose is a poster, right?Barnes and Noble had plenty Sat. It's the first RS I've seen since they changed to the smaller page format. I quit subscribing years ago. I hate the new format. The MJ piece was ok though, imo.

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 08:23 PM

As far as I know lupus and vitiligo go together for any reason which has to do with antibodies against the pigment cells.

Not being a doctor, I don't know. I do know many people with vitiligo, and a few with lupus. None of them have both. :shrug:

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 08:27 PM

IMO I never believed much coming out of MJ's mouth. I believed him to be a notorious liar....I don't think much of Klein as a credible source either.

I believe what he said in this interview that he was proud of his origin. He was befriended with a lot of black people. I don't think he wanted to have white skin.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 08:30 PM

Barnes and Noble had plenty Sat. It's the first RS I've seen since they changed to the smaller page format. I quit subscribing years ago. I hate the new format. The MJ piece was ok though, imo.

I'm from Europe, therefore I have to "import" it. I tried to get it from a kiosk but failed. I will try again at a local book store if they could order it. If I buy it online I have to pay for the shipping by myself.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 08:31 PM

IMO I never believed much coming out of MJ's mouth. I believed him to be a notorious liar....I don't think much of Klein as a credible source either.

Totally agree. Looking into the camera and only 2 nose jobs! That's all. Honest. No other plastic surgery. :rolleyes:

daniel green

07-28-2009, 08:32 PM

As far as I know lupus and vitiligo go together for any reason which has to do with antibodies against the pigment cells.

Oh, no no no no.

Lupus and vitiligo do not go together nor do they have the same "antibodies" nor properties.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 08:32 PM

Not being a doctor, I don't know. I do know many people with vitiligo, and a few with lupus. None of them have both. :shrug:

I've never met somebody who suffers from lupus or vitiligo.

I have no idea, either,... but when it came to MJ and his white skin always both of the diseases were mentioned.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 08:34 PM

Totally agree. Looking into the camera and only 2 nose jobs! That's all. Honest. No other plastic surgery. :rolleyes:

He's not obliged to talk about his plastic surgery on television. NO celebrity does so... but (almost) ALL had plastic surgery.

Madonna said: "I'm not against plastic surgery. I'm just against discussing it."

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 08:39 PM

Yes who_..lupus is within the "Auto-Imune Disease" umbrella...but is doesnt just cause that pesky butterfly mask..but effects many systems..and can be quite debilitating..The skin..system is only one system..and it usually doesnt efect just one system..and its the other ones that can be quite debilitating...

http://www.essortment.com/all/whatislupusdi_pen.htm

Lupus is an autoimmune disorder and it effects organ systems, skin, joints, and internal organs. Lupus can effect both men and women, but it is eight times as likely in women. It can also occur at any age, but the typical age range for someone to get Lupus is ten to fifty. It is normally more common in African American people as well as Asian people. This is a disease that is usually hereditary, but in some cases there is no family history of Lupus.

Forms of treatment for Lupus has to concentrate on its side effects. There is no cure for the disease itself, so alleviating the symptoms is all a person can do. Anti-inflammatory medication is given for arthritis pain as well as the pleurisy. Skin rashes can be helped with corticosteriods, which typically comes in a cream form or lotion to not only clear up the rash, but to also sooth it. Severe symptoms need to be checked out by a specialist. Close monitoring of the symptoms and through trial and error figuring out which gives the most relief. Also changing lifestyles to healthy habits, such as eating balanced meals and getting minimal exercise will help. Having a stress free environment also helps immensely

We all know that stress can aggrivatesymptoms..but however if MJ was indeed diagnoised 1/4 century ago..he would have had many "hospitalizations" since this disease" Lupus" is noted for the seiries of remissions, and exaserbations...triggered by stress...From what I have seen..MJ didnt seem to run that course..any of his visits to Dr.'s or ER's seem to be due to his " pain symptoms due to his "injuries"....If Lupus was actual...then I believe Mj would have USED that excuse..( known for having excuses)..and he never claimed that ever....Lupus is not likely from what I saw, heard, read..in the past 25 years!! Now..Skin white patches...okay..

LMS

Thank you. After reading that I don't believe he had lupus, either.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 08:43 PM

I don't know. I didn't really keep up with his weight. I do know I felt he was under tremendous stress and anxiety though so I can see eating not on his list of priorities plus everyone around him said MJ was never much of an eater anyway.

I can't fault that myself. I don't eat much either.

imo

Many ppl who have researched MJ for years all agree that he was anorexic.

He was not thin and wispy as a child or teen, either.

1980s because of a change in diet and a desire for "a dancer's body".[16] By 1984, Jackson had lost 20 pounds (9.1 kg), bringing his weight to 105 pounds (48 kg) on a 5 foot 11 (1.80 m) frame, the slimmest he had ever been as an adult.[27] Witnesses reported that Jackson was often dizzy and speculated that he was suffering from anorexia nervosa.[27] Following accusations of child molestation in 1993, Jackson stopped eating, losing even more weight.[28] In late 1995, Jackson was rushed to a hospital after collapsing during rehearsals for a televised performance (which was subsequently cancelled); the incident was caused by a stress-related panic attack.[29] The BBC reported that during his 2005 trial, the singer again suffered from stress-related illnesses and severe weight loss.[30]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson's_health_and_appearance

A BMI of less than 18.5 is considered underweight by medical authorities. The World Health Organization considers a BMI of 16 to be starvation. Michael Jackson’s arrest record from 2003 said he was 5’11” tall while weighing 120 pounds. That would have given him a BMI of 16.7at that time.

http://www.examiner.com/x-7150-Extreme-Weight-Loss-Examiner~y2009m6d29-Michael-Jackson-aftermath-Facts-we-should-all-know-about-eating-disorders

daniel green

07-28-2009, 08:47 PM

snipped
If Lupus was actual...then I believe Mj would have USED that excuse..( known for having excuses)..and he never claimed that ever....Lupus is not likely from what I saw, heard, read..in the past 25 years!! Now..Skin white patches...okay..

LMS

And his blood tests and inflamation studies would not have been normal, as per Lee. Those two things--the tests being OK AND a Dx of lupus--cannot co-exist.

I was Dxd with an autoimmune disorder long ago and I, too, have been flare-free for quite some time, but no way are my liver tests fine nor all my labs A-OK as Lee claimed MJ's were.

I don't for one second believe that he had Lupus.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 08:49 PM

about Dr. Klein:

(Subjective impression): For any reason MJ was like a slave to Dr. Klein or dependent on him. Could be for drugs, could be for secrets he knows about MJ, could be the Debbie Rowe thing... but I think there's more about it.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 08:49 PM

i don;t know daniel, i feel like its gone from the sublime to the ridiculous listening to JVM on it. snipped:

Hey, VC!

It took me some time to be able to decipher who JVM is. Finally got it! ACK! You are a lot stronger than I am. I could no more listen to her than walk on jagged glass.

disneyfreak

07-28-2009, 08:52 PM

---------------

If she cared so much, why did she not report this to someone? Why wait till hes dead? jmo

She was out of state. The inference was he was seeing another medical professional. Who is she going to "report" this to? He is a grown man asking medical advice from a medical professional. She can't just break client confidentiality.

Once he died, she should have contacted LE. I believe it would have been ignored with all the real looney's calling them, but it would have made her sound a bit more professional. I still agree she is one of the few that actually came out of this mess looking responsible.

BTW, anyone know if Michael was also seeing a Registered Dietitian? My step-mother is one, and there is big difference between a RD and a "nutritionist".

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 08:52 PM

And his blood tests and inflamation studies would not have been normal, as per Lee. Those two things--the tests being OK AND a Dx of lupus--cannot co-exist.

I was Dxd with an autoimmune disorder long ago and I, too, have been flare-free for quite some time, but no way are my liver tests fine nor all my labs A-OK as Lee claimed MJ's were.

I don't for one second believe that he had Lupus.

After Lynda's and your post I now understand why he can't have lupus if the tests were okay.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 08:52 PM

How did she get on the Larry King Show?

I would imagine the producer could have reached out to HER, if she'd told anyone else about the diprivan, or having treated MJ during the last few months, etc. Or, more likely, she called the show, told her story, the person who talked to her passed it along to one of the producers, and that was it.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 08:56 PM

Nutritionist back on Nancy Grace. Well her voice and her picture. She was on the phone saying she met with the coroner and he told her Mr Jackson was an addict. She told him she didn't think he was and the coroner said there is a lot she doesn't know. Supposedly he told her he would call her when this is over and tell her.

I don't believe a word she said. lol

in my opinion only

daniel green

07-28-2009, 09:01 PM

Renal (kidney) disorder: excessive protein in the urine, or cellular casts in the urine

Hematologic (blood) disorder: hemolytic anemia, low white blood cell count, or low platelet count

Immunologic disorder: antibodies to double stranded DNA, antibodies to Sm, or antibodies to cardiolipin

http://www.lupusresearchinstitute.org/lupus/lupus_diagnosis

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 09:03 PM

Many ppl who have researched MJ for years all agree that he was anorexic.

He was not thin and wispy as a child or teen, either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jackson's_health_and_appearance

http://www.examiner.com/x-7150-Extreme-Weight-Loss-Examiner~y2009m6d29-Michael-Jackson-aftermath-Facts-we-should-all-know-about-eating-disorders

Wow, so in 1984 he only weighed 105 then.

So if he weighed in the 120 pound range around the time he died that means he had gained weight even though he was back to doing strenuous rehearsal routines.

imo

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 09:03 PM

She was out of state. The inference was he was seeing another medical professional. Who is she going to "report" this to? He is a grown man asking medical advice from a medical professional. She can't just break client confidentiality.

Once he died, she should have contacted LE. I believe it would have been ignored with all the real looney's calling them, but it would have made her sound a bit more professional. I still agree she is one of the few that actually came out of this mess looking responsible.

BTW, anyone know if Michael was also seeing a Registered Dietitian? My step-mother is one, and there is big difference between a RD and a "nutritionist".

I am wondering what kind of education this nutritionist has. What type of license.

in my opinion

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 09:05 PM

Dr. Murray on video!
--------------------------
Dr. Conrad Murray Looks Cool, Calm, Collected

"We've obtained the first video footage of Dr. Conrad Murray since the death of his most famous patient, Michael Jackson. The footage was shot today outside of Murray's Las Vegas home -- shortly after it was raided by DEA agents.

In the clip you see Dr. Murray looking cool as a cucumber, with a bit of a swagger ... wearing a baseball cap and a button-down shirt."

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/28/dr-conrad-murray-michael-jackson-doctor-exclusive-video/

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 09:10 PM

I would imagine the producer could have reached out to HER, if she'd told anyone else about the diprivan, or having treated MJ during the last few months, etc. Or, more likely, she called the show, told her story, the person who talked to her passed it along to one of the producers, and that was it.

I think she must call a lot. She called Nancy Grace show tonight.

in my opinion

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 09:13 PM

I think she must call a lot. She called Nancy Grace show tonight.

in my opinion

A lot of posters find her credible (... and maybe she is credible...) but I agree with you that she's probably interested in getting on as many shows as possible. Reminds me of LB after ANS' death who's a millionaire now.

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 09:14 PM

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 09:18 PM

I am wondering what kind of education this nutritionist has. What type of license.

in my opinion

I thought she said she was a Nurse Practioner?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_practitioner#Education.2C_licensing.2C_and_b oard_certification

Education, licensing, and board certification
To be licensed as a nurse practitioner, the candidate must first complete the education and training necessary to be a registered nurse (RN).

Requirements for a registered nurse (RN) include either an Associate of Science in Nursing (ASN), a Bachelor of Science in Nursing (BSN), or completion of a diploma program, as well as direct patient care for acutely or chronically ill patients. ASN programs, which are offered by community and junior colleges, usually take 2 years plus prerequisites. BSN programs are offered by colleges and universities and take 4 years plus necessary prerequisites before acceptance into the program. -

While not every state includes specific language requiring a masters degree for NPs, the majority of states do require a masters degree, post-master's certificate or doctoral degree. Further, the current nurse practitioner programs offered by all universities and colleges are at the masters or post-master's certification level. Lastly, all states require national board certification for nurse practitioners before they are permitted to practice and the two biggest certifying bodies, the American Nurses Credentialing Center and the American Academy of Nurse Practitioners, do require applicants to hold a masters degree or post-master's certificate to be eligible to test for certification. In 2015 these organizations will require a Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP) degree for a candidate to be eligible to take the certification examination.

To become a Nurse Practitioner (NP), nurses trained at the associate degree or diploma level must first complete a Bachelor of Science in Nursing (BSN) or enter various programs offering an ADN-to-MSN "bridge program," some of which award the bachelors degree while completing the requirements for the masters; others, upon completion, only award the MSN with only the BSN coursework being completed instead of an actual degree awarded.

Once state licensure as a registered nurse is attained by successful completion of the NCLEX-RN, the candidate must complete a state-approved advanced nursing education program that usually specializes in a field such as family health, adult health, acute care, women's health, etc. The degree can be granted by a university which grants an MSN or doctorate in nursing.

The American Academy of Nurse Practitioners defines Nurse Practitioners as licensed independent practitioners who practice in ambulatory, acute and long term care as primary and/or specialty care providers. They provide nursing and medical services to individuals, families, and groups according to their area of practice/specialty. In addition to diagnosing and managing acute episodic and chronic illness, they also emphasize health promotion and disease prevention, incorporating teaching and counseling of individuals, families, and groups as a major part of their practice.[5]

imo

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 09:19 PM

All I can say is he's seriously overdressed for the weather in Vegas. :scared:

Maybe he just went out shortly and it's airconditioned inside of the house.

Not with reference to the outside temperature TMZ titled the video "cold as ice". They always find a way to spin their sensational story...

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 09:21 PM

All I can say is he's seriously overdressed for the weather in Vegas. :scared:

Wow, I drove through on Sunday night....it was 113 at 9 at night. :scared:

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 09:23 PM

Maybe he just went out shortly and it's airconditioned inside of the house.

Not with reference to the outside temperature TMZ titled the video "cold as ice". They always find a way to spin their sensational story...

I lived in Vegas for many years. No one dresses like that in the summer, not even in the house. No one except Dr. Murray, I guess. Yikes.

I didn't think he was "swaggering" and I have no idea how they decided he was "cool as a cucumber," either. Silliness.

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 09:25 PM

I lived in Vegas for many years. No one dresses like that in the summer, not even in the house. No one except Dr. Murray, I guess. Yikes.

I didn't think he was "swaggering" and I have no idea how they decided he was "cool as a cucumber," either. Silliness.

I agree. He looked like he was trying to make the best out of a very bad situation.

imo

disneyfreak

07-28-2009, 09:26 PM

I am wondering what kind of education this nutritionist has. What type of license.

in my opinion
Depends on the state, but often they have little or no specialized eduction. Technically they are supposed to do meal planning etc under the eye of an RD but often don't.

To be a certified nutritionist one needs to hold an advanced degree in a related field and/or hold a "master’s degree in nutrition, or an allied field that is relevant to the practice of nutrition, including but not limited to, RN, NP, or PA" and then pass an exam. http://www.cbns.org/CBNSWEB%20SITE.pdf This could be the case with Lee. However, there is no organization such as the American Dietetic Association (which overseea the RD term.)

Also California does not require any education to practice as a Nutritionist. It is very much buyer beware.

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 09:26 PM

Wow, I drove through on Sunday night....it was 113 at 9 at night. :scared:

Yes, ma'am. It doesn't cool down in that neck of the woods at night. Usually sometime in May, it gets hot enough to close all the windows, crank up the A/C, and move from one air conditioned building or vehicle to the next until about October.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 09:29 PM

Depends on the state, but often they have little or no specialized eduction. Technically they are supposed to do meal planning etc under the eye of an RD but often don't.

To be a certified nutritionist one needs to hold an advanced degree in a related field and/or hold a "master’s degree in nutrition, or an allied field that is relevant to the practice of nutrition, including but not limited to, RN, NP, or PA" and then pass an exam. http://www.cbns.org/CBNSWEB%20SITE.pdf This could be the case with Lee. However, there is no organization such as the American Dietetic Association (which overseea the RD term.)

Also California does not require any education to practice as a Nutritionist. It is very much buyer beware.

Here is some information on her. Can you tell me what she is? I guess she has a business. Note her education and where she attended school.

http://mynutrimed.com/nmdrlee.htm

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 09:30 PM

I lived in Vegas for many years. No one dresses like that in the summer, not even in the house. No one except Dr. Murray, I guess. Yikes.

I didn't think he was "swaggering" and I have no idea how they decided he was "cool as a cucumber," either. Silliness.

Maybe he had chill out session before.... :D Sorry, couldn't resist...

CinderL.

07-28-2009, 09:31 PM

You know what..I take media hype with a grain of salt..I can just hear..IF he had of come outside with shorts and t-Shirt on...You'd get some other spin...like.."sweeting it out"..or " airing his heat"..I dont much care for media Terminology" it's just a "Grabber" of headline...Buggs me to death...

I dont like, or care for what he did..but to have media on his doorstep..watching him like this..then making a headline like this..is just HYPE..for ratings..nothing more!! I dont care for this mans ethics..nor his role in MJ;s death..but give me a flippen break!

LMS

I agree. :wink: But, it is hot in Vegas right now. :laugh:

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 09:32 PM

I agree. He looked like he was trying to make the best out of a very bad situation.

imo

Seriously I don't think he looked cool. He was walking fast. It's just TMZ's spin...

sunstar

07-28-2009, 09:33 PM

I agree. He looked like he was trying to make the best out of a very bad situation.

imo

If he did administer MJ with diprivan, I'd imagine he's very, very scared right now. MOO

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 09:46 PM

Here is a link to the home page. Her story about Mr Jackson is on the front page written by Lynn Elber. In the article she is called a nutritionist. This is good publicity for this business.

http://mynutrimed.com/menu.htm

I find something odd about this woman. I don't find her credible at all.

in my opinion

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 09:47 PM

If he did administer MJ with diprivan, I'd imagine he's very, very scared right now. MOO

It was reported he gets death threats by crazy fans.

sunstar

07-28-2009, 09:49 PM

It was reported he gets death threats by crazy fans.

Oh that doesn't surprise me at all! :scared:

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 09:53 PM

Here is a link to the home page. Her story is on the front page written by Lynn Elber. In the article she is called a nutritionist. This is good publicity for this business.

http://mynutrimed.com/menu.htm

I find something odd about this woman. I don't find her credible at all.

in my opinion

I just don't understand what you think is so odd about this woman.

It says clearly in her bio that she has been a Nurse Practitioner and Physician Assistant since 1982.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_practitioner#Education.2C_licensing.2C_and_b oard_certification

The American Academy of Nurse PraA Nurse Practitioner (NP) is a registered nurse who has completed specific advanced nursing education (generally a master's degree or doctoral degree) and training in the diagnosis and management of common as well as complex medical conditions. Nurse Practitioners provide a broad range of health care services. Nurse Practitioners are considered "Mid-level Providers/Practitioners," along with Clinical Nurse Specialists, Certified Nurse Midwives, Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists and Physician Assistants.[1][2][3]

Each Nurse Practioner can have their own expertise.

imo

disneyfreak

07-28-2009, 10:01 PM

Here is some information on her. Can you tell me what she is? I guess she has a business. Note her education and where she attended school.

http://mynutrimed.com/nmdrlee.htm

Clayton is not an accredited school by the Department of Education. Neither is Trinity.

According to the California Board of Registered Nursing, she is an RN and Nurse Practitioner without any actions against here.

I am still trying to find out who licensed her in the field of nutritionist, as there is no state database.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 10:07 PM

Clayton is not an accredited school by the Department of Education. Neither is Trinity.

snipped.

Figures.

Totally figures.

Of course, when I read about practice of chelation, I didn't need to look any further.

disneyfreak

07-28-2009, 10:09 PM

Also, Lee is not licensed as a Physician's Assistant in California.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 10:10 PM

Anyone else noticed? Since his death TMZ posts pics with MJ wearing black sunglasses only... to make the story more mysterious, I think. :sneaky:

vonna

07-28-2009, 10:12 PM

I believe what he said in this interview that he was proud of his origin. He was befriended with a lot of black people. I don't think he wanted to have white skin.

I agree with his brother who said he bleached himself wife - so he obviously did want white skin. He also wanted white children.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 10:12 PM

Also, Lee is not licensed as a Physician's Assistant in California.

She doesn't have the educational requirements/background to be a PA.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 10:15 PM

I agree with his brother who said he bleached himself wife - so he obviously did want white skin. He also wanted white children.

Which brother?

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 10:16 PM

Clayton is not an accredited school by the Department of Education. Neither is Trinity.

According to the California Board of Registered Nursing, she is an RN and Nurse Practitioner without any actions against here.

I am still trying to find out who licensed her in the field of nutritionist, as there is no state database.

Thanks also check out the other link when you can. You're a sweetie.

in my opinion

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 10:22 PM

She doesn't have the educational requirements/background to be a PA.

I'm glad you both know what you're looking at. Thanks

in my opinion

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 10:24 PM

I agree with his brother who said he bleached himself wife - so he obviously did want white skin. He also wanted white children.

What these skin bleech rumors are concerned I would like to know by all medical experts here on the board if this would even be possible. I myself have a part of skin on my body (NO birthmark, normal soft skin) which is darker than my other skin -- I would say Italian teint. I tried to bleech this when I was a teen. I didn't work. I meanwhile find it cool, so I've never tried again to bleech it.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 10:29 PM

What these skin bleech rumors are concerned I would like to know by all medical experts here on the board if this would even be possible. I myself have a part of skin on my body (NO birthmark, normal soft skin) which is darker than my other skin -- I would say Italian teint. I tried to bleech this when I was a teen. I didn't work. I meanwhile find it cool, so I've never tried again to bleech it.

I'd like to know that too, but their working on my thing now. You're next. lol

in my opinion

vonna

07-28-2009, 10:29 PM

Which brother?

Jermaine Jackson.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 10:30 PM

I know Dr. Klein said MJ has lupus but so did Dr. Chopra and I found him much more credible than Dr. Klein:

snipped

But Dr Chopra never ran any tests on MJ to Dx lupus, right? If MJ told him he had lupus, OK. But I doubt completely that Chopra would have run the extensive and esoteric tests that give one a Dx of lupus.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 10:31 PM

Jermaine Jackson.

And to which media outlet did he say this? Got to log out... but would be nice to find a reply from you later.:seeya:

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 10:31 PM

I agree with his brother who said he bleached himself wife - so he obviously did want white skin. He also wanted white children.

What brother?

And what if he did have Vitilio which has been known for years and there has even been a vast amount of photos showing its progression over the years.

MJ did not want to be a white man. I think the only ones that must want to believe that... are white people. His idol wasn't white. His idol was a black man named James Brown and MJ gave to an abundance of black charities. He was proud of his race but he could not help he had Vitilio just like the ones I see in my own hometown who cant help it either, The same ones where I see people out of ignorance, snicker, whisper and points their finger behind the back of these people who has this disorder through no fault of their own. I am sure they cannot afford depigmentation so that their skin can be basically one color instead of splotched or they would do so.

The "he wanted to be white" sells birdcage liners but there is absolutely no truth to it imo.

Thank goodness MJ loved all colors. He didn't need to have only black children in order to love them and we have no idea if all of these children are 100% white either.

imo

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 10:32 PM

daniel green

07-28-2009, 10:33 PM

By 1985, the school was called "The Clayton School of Natural Healing," the catalog offered a "Doctor of Naturopathy" program, and Clayton's product line had expanded to include homeopathic products and vitamin and mineral formulas. In 1985, East/West Journal reported that the tuition was $695 for a 100-hour course [2]. In 1991, the school offered "Doctor of Holistic Health" and "Doctor of Science" Programs. By this time, tuition for the "Doctor of Naturopathy" program had risen to $1,735 with a $300 discount if the entire amount was paid in advance. The application form in the packets from 1983 through 1991 was a single page that asked nothing about previous education. The only apparent requirements for admission were a name, an address, and payment of tuition.

The 1995 catalog stated that the Clayton School of Natural Healing and the American Holistic College of Nutrition had been "brought together as part of the American College of Natural Health." By this time, the catalog had expanded to 48 pages and offered bachelor, master's, and doctoral programs leading to eight different degrees, with tuition ranging from $1,435 for the Master of Science in Natural Health to $4,485 for a B.S./M.S./doctoral program. Unlike previous versions, the catalog was printed on high-quality paper and the application form asked about educational and work experiences.

http://www.quackwatch.com/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/clayton.html

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 10:34 PM

Jermaine Jackson.

Where did he say that?

Do you have a link?

imo

disneyfreak

07-28-2009, 10:34 PM

From her website:

.

http://www.cdrewu.edu/about-cdu/accreditation

Hmmmmm.

And that "PhD?" From an online school:

http://www.ccnh.edu/

YIKES. :huh:

Oh, and furthermore:

http://www.quackwatch.com/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/clayton.html

Yeap, that Clayton is a real winner...NOT! There are actual online schools that are accredited so that is no excuse. In fact, there is one in my city that is fully accredited by WASC and has a good percentage of their students prepared to sit and pass the MFT test to practice psychology. This is not an easy test. Online schools no longer mean crap, sadly its schools like Clayton that give them all bad names.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 10:36 PM

I'd like to know that too, but their working on my thing now. You're next. lol

in my opinion

Maybe I didn't have had a good dermatologist but that aggressive bleeching cream I got didn't work at all for me (though my pigmentation is like Italian teint only, so not too dark).

Over years I've always wondered about the MJ rumors -- with my own experience on mind.

disneyfreak

07-28-2009, 10:36 PM

I knew it. She's a con and a fraud!!!! She never had those private conversations with Mr. Jackson.

in my opinion
Sadly, she's pretty standard for a "nutritionist" in California.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 10:38 PM

What these skin bleech rumors are concerned I would like to know by all medical experts here on the board if this would even be possible. I myself have a part of skin on my body (NO birthmark, normal soft skin) which is darker than my other skin -- I would say Italian teint. I tried to bleech this when I was a teen. I didn't work. I meanwhile find it cool, so I've never tried again to bleech it.

I was born and spent the first 9 yrs of my life in the Caribbean and had tons of sun damage. So I get sun spots now. I have been using a benoquin cream, Lustra, for years, whenever I get one (Rxd by my dermatologist) and it not only fades the sun damage, it bleaches the skin around it.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 10:38 PM

Sadly, she's pretty standard for a "nutritionist" in California.

Is this nutritionist the same person like "the staffer hired by AEG to care if he eats"? Was she hired by AEG?

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 10:41 PM

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 10:42 PM

Sadly, she's pretty standard for a "nutritionist" in California.

OMG After all that? lol Did you notice from the home page link an article is written on Mr Jackson. Good publicity for their quack business.

I simply don't find her credible and wondered what she was up too. I guess that was why Firpo was jumping on her too. Thanks.

in my opinion

daniel green

07-28-2009, 10:43 PM

The use of umbrella..was likely because of his Skin Issues..and treatments..not to mention use of prednisone..makes you very vulnerable..snipped

And because, while using benoquin creams, one is supposed to avoid sun exposure:

http://www.lustra.com/gva/article.asp?siteID=308&cat1=2222&pgId=37932

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 10:43 PM

You've made that abundantly clear. :lol:

lol, sorry. I am retired and should stop being suspicious.

in my opinion

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 10:43 PM

Benoquin was found at MJ's residence and it is used for depigmentation in vitiligo. You cannot just turn your skin white :rolleyes:

PROCEDURE:
Because complete depigmentation will take one to four years, there is no hurry in applying Benoquin all over the body. I always want first to demonstrate to the patient that the process works. Photographs are taken of both arms, but Benoquin with 20 percent monobenzone is applied only to one arm for two to three months. For the first 3 to 4 days, the patient applies Benoquin to only a small patch to one arm as a test to find out whether or not one is sensitive to the drug. A stinging feeling may occur immediately after the cream is put on the skin because of fine particles in the preparation. It is difficult for the pharmacist to grind the crystals of monobenzone fine enough. This stinging is due to physical irritation â€” not an allergic reaction â€” and should last only a few minutes. If one is allergic to Benoquin, a rash will appear one to two days after the cream has been applied. If there is no allergic reaction, the patient can apply the cream once or twice a day for the duration of the demonstration period. Benoquin is usually not applied at bedtime because the patient may inadvertently rub the treated arm onto the face and get cream into the eyes. Also, a spouse, if allergic to Benoquin, will get a dermatitis. When the patient returns in two to three months, photographs are taken again. The treated arm should be significantly lighter than the untreated arm. If it is not, the patient should continue treating the arm for another one to three months. When it is obvious that the treated arm has become noticeably lighter than the controlled one, the patient applies the cream to the hands, arms, and the face. While all these areas are depigmenting, other parts of the body where no cream was applied usually lighten as well. Most patients have a wonderful response and are happy to once again be of one color. In public no one comments or stares at them. The hair may or may not become more gray. Eye color will not change. If the patient does not depigment with the 20 percent Benoquin prep aration, we have a pharmacist make up a 40 percent cream. Most pharmacists cannot get the pure monobenzone chemical, and they don't have the facilities to make a 40 percent product. At the end of this report I give the names and addresses of four pharmacies in different parts of the country that can fill prescriptions for monobenzone cre

http://www.nvfi.org/pages/info_depigmentation.php

Wow! Thanks.:thumbup: I had not heard they found it in his home but I am not surprised in the least.

imo

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 10:45 PM

Benoquin was found at MJ's residence and it is used for depigmentation in vitiligo. You cannot just turn your skin white :rolleyes:
<snipped>

I think what I got was less aggressive than this Benoquin. I have a stinging feeling. Furthermore I wasn't in a process of depigmentation like the people who suffer from vitiligo.

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 10:46 PM

Sadly, she's pretty standard for a "nutritionist" in California.

So she is not a registered nurse or a nurse practitioner?

imo

daniel green

07-28-2009, 10:47 PM

To my knowledge he has never divulged that and I don't know how he knows this but I do know in the tests that are said to have been administered by Nurse Lee it would not have detected it.
snipped

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20288162,00.html

Athena, if those tests that Lee says she ran were, in fact, done, and they were sent to an accredited lab and they came back normal, there is no way on earth MJ had lupus. Not with normal kidney functions and normal red/white blood cell counts, etc.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 10:50 PM

I was born and spent the first 9 yrs of my life in the Caribbean and had tons of sun damage. So I get sun spots now. I have been using a benoquin cream, Lustra, for years, whenever I get one (Rxd by my dermatologist) and it not only fades the sun damage, it bleaches the skin around it.

I don't want to bleach it anymore because it doesn't look ugly and if I'm travelling in a country where people have darker skin I always say "That's my heritage of your country!" why it's somehow cool to have it.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 10:50 PM

So she is not a registered nurse or a nurse practitioner?

imo

She is a con and not credible.

in my opinion

daniel green

07-28-2009, 10:51 PM

snipped Depigmentation tends to be permanent and is not easily reversed. In addition, a person who undergoes depigmentation will always be unusually sensitive to sunlight.

http://www.medicinenet.com/vitiligo/page4.htm

Thank you.

As I said, benoquin users have to be very careful to sunlight. Hence, the umbrellas.

And 2, depigmintation=bleaching skin white.

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 10:51 PM

Vitiligo and lupus are both auto-immune diseases (I know you know this) and are very closely linked together and one can trigger the other. I posted an article on this and I'll see if I can find it. I don't know if he has it but I don't believe Dr. Chopra would lie about it without knowing it to be true. He's been very truthful about the negative too. JMO

More from Dr. Chopra:

"It was very disturbing to him that people thought he always wanted to be white and he was bleaching his skin. [But] he identified as being a black person and so it was troubling to him that everyone thought that he was a hater of his own race," Gotham explains. "And the lupus, why he didn't just come out more clearly and say that was the problem, I'm not sure. But I know it was something that bothered him a lot."

Could he have this type of Lupus?

Subacute cutaneous lupus erythematosus refers to skin lesions that appear on parts of the body exposed to sun. The lesions do not cause scarring.

imo

daniel green

07-28-2009, 10:53 PM

I don't want to bleach it anymore because it doesn't look ugly and if I'm travelling in a country where people have darker skin I always say "That's my heritage of your country!" why it's somehow cool to have it.

Right.

When I use Lustra on a sun damage spot, no matter how careful I am not to use it on the skin surrounding it, I end up with a permanent white circle. So, it's pick your poison. Live with the sun damage spots, or be covered with white circles. :scared:

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 10:53 PM

She is a con and not credible.

in my opinion

That is not the question I asked.

imo

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 10:53 PM

So the lupus was an excuse. He wanted to bleach his skin white?

in my opinion

disneyfreak

07-28-2009, 10:55 PM

So she is not a registered nurse or a nurse practitioner?

imo

She is both according to the California Nursing Board. As for her education in the field in nutrition? ehhhh

daniel green

07-28-2009, 10:55 PM

Vitiligo and lupus are both auto-immune diseases (I know you know this) and are very closely linked together and one can trigger the other. snipped

Would you be so kind as to post any medical/scientific evidence of a link between them?

I have an autoimmune disease, and have for many yrs, and have never ever ever heard of a link between any two auto-immune diseases.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 10:56 PM

She is both according to the California Nursing Board. snipped

From some really sketchy schools...

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 10:56 PM

She is both according to the California Nursing Board. As for her education in the field in nutrition? ehhhh

Thank you. I know here in my state RN/Nurse Practitioners make mega bucks.

imo

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 10:56 PM

So the lupus was an excuse. He wanted to bleach his skin white?

in my opinion

Lupus and vitiligo are different diseases. Lupus affects organs as well. "Only" vitiligo would have turned his skin white. It doesn't need lupus, too.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 11:05 PM

Thank you. I know here in my state RN/Nurse Practitioners make mega bucks.
h
imo

If you would have read the link to her website you would see everything she claims she is. She claims she is a Dr. Also the crummy schools she said she attended have been checked out and the results have been posted here. She has a business going with this link. Mr Jackson's story is on there written by someone else. In the article it is said she is a nutritionist. I don't know about you, but I would never go to her for anything.

in my opinion

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 11:06 PM

Benoquin was found at MJ's residence and it is used for depigmentation in vitiligo. You cannot just turn your skin white :rolleyes:

<snipped for length>

One more thought:

I remember well the media reports after this found... No media outlet explained what the cream was specifically for. It was just called "bleaching cream".

FallenAngel♥

07-28-2009, 11:06 PM

So the lupus was an excuse. He wanted to bleach his skin white?

in my opinion

was vitiligo an excuse also?

daniel green

07-28-2009, 11:08 PM

The test results of a patient with lupus would not have shown up as normal--particularly the inflamation tests Lee said she ran and even the CBC. The kidney function tests would also be out of whack.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 11:10 PM

was vitiligo an excuse also?

Did you ever hear of anyone else who's black that he or she bleached her skin? -- I didn't. I don't think it would be medically possible...

IF this was medically possible it would have been introduced in medical magazines and would be known by a broader public.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 11:11 PM

One more thought:

I remember well the media reports after this found... No media outlet explained what the cream was specifically for. It was just called "bleaching cream".

A thin layer of Benoquin Cream 20% should be applied and rubbed into the pigmented area two or three times daily, or as directed by physician. Prolonged exposure to sunlight should be avoided during treatment with Benoquin Cream 20%, or a sunscreen should be used.

Depigmentation is usually accomplished after one to four months of Benoquin Cream 20% treatment. If satisfactory results are not obtained after four months of Benoquin Cream 20% treatment, the drug should be discontinued. When the desired degree of depigmentation is obtained, Benoquin Cream 20% should be applied only as often as needed to maintain depigmentation

http://www.drugs.com/pro/benoquin.html

depigmintation=turn skin white, with no pigment.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 11:12 PM

was vitiligo an excuse also?

I'm a little lost here because I wasn't keeping up with the thread. I don't know what was an excuse. I was asking if Lupus was an excuse, but now I am asking if Vitilligo was an excuse.

in my opinion

FallenAngel♥

07-28-2009, 11:15 PM

Did you ever hear of anyone else who's black that he or she bleached her skin? -- I didn't. I don't think it would be medically possible...

IF this was medically possible it would have been introduced in medical magazines and would be known by a broader public.

I think MJ had vitiligo and lupus ...........

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 11:16 PM

She is a con and not credible.

in my opinion

Now lookie here, Mr. Cop ... :scared:

Seriously, you're starting to worry me. I'm starting to see how a cop can form an immovable opinion of someone based primarily on his "gut," and then make the evidence fit his opinion.

For the record, I don't consider any of the links provided upthread absolute proof Lee isn't who she claims to be (nurse, PA, etc.), nor do I find it odd that courses in naturopathic study aren't accredited. In any event, you formed your very firm GUT feeling about her before any of those links or info were offered up.

It's a little skeery, Mr. Cop, sir.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 11:17 PM

http://www.drugs.com/pro/benoquin.html

depigmintation=turn skin white, with no pigment.

Athena posted an explanation, too. I wanted to express by my original post: The media didn't go into details. They just called it "bleaching cream" to stir up the rumors. By their reports they neglected the medical background (= that Benoquin is used by vitiligo patients) to sensationalize.

who_is_it

07-28-2009, 11:18 PM

I think MJ had vitiligo and lupus ...........

I think he had vitiligo only (imo).

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 11:19 PM

Lupus and vitiligo are different diseases. Lupus affects organs as well. "Only" vitiligo would have turned his skin white. It doesn't need lupus, too.

I just read an article that said he had disoid lupus.

And it usually only affects the skin.

I will see if I can find the site again.

imo

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 11:20 PM

I think MJ had vitiligo and lupus ...........

Me too.

imo

FallenAngel♥

07-28-2009, 11:21 PM

I think he had vitiligo only (imo).

My best friend has lupus and i think MJ has lupus.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 11:21 PM

If routine tests are given and they ARE NOT looking for something specifically related to Lupus it will go undetected:

I am going to disagree with you yet again. We will just have to agree to disagree.

What Blood Tests Are Used to Diagnosis Systemic Lupus? (too long to post):

snipped

But that is going at it backward.

It takes many tests to Dx Lupus.

But a person with lupus--particularly long term--as with any other person with an auto-immune disorder, will not have kidney tests or inflamation tests that come back normal.

disneyfreak

07-28-2009, 11:22 PM

For the record, I don't consider any of the links provided upthread absolute proof Lee isn't who she claims to be (nurse, PA, etc.), nor do I find it odd that courses in naturopathic study aren't accredited. In any event, you formed your very firm GUT feeling about her before any of those links or info were offered up.

It's a little skeery, Mr. Cop, sir.
Run her name through this database. You will not receive any hits as a licensed PA.

http://www.pac.ca.gov/consumers/index.shtml

FallenAngel♥

07-28-2009, 11:22 PM

I just read an article that said he had disoid lupus.

And it usually only affects the skin.

I will see if I can find the site again.

imo

Michael Jackson did have Discoid Lupus

http://cure4lupus.org/media/michael_jackson_lupus.htm

Jackson had a form of skin lupus called discoid lupus erythematosus

http://insideedition.com/storyprint.aspx?SpecialReportID=3128

if you want more sites i have more

daniel green

07-28-2009, 11:24 PM

Dr Kline (sp) himself, MJ's dermatologist, has gone on to say that the nose was damaged from prolongued benoquine use, right? I have seen the link to those remarks posted many times here. So it's not "tabloid reporting."

Lemme go look for the stash of drugs they found at NV in 03 so I can find it.

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 11:25 PM

Run her name through this database. You will not receive any hits as a licensed PA.

http://www.pac.ca.gov/consumers/index.shtml

Maybe she's licensed in another state.

When you snip a post, you should note that you've snipped it. Please and thank you.

Mamie

07-28-2009, 11:27 PM

My best friend has lupus and i think MJ has lupus.

I thought Dr. Klein on one of his interviews said MJ had vitiligo and a form of lupus. I think that's what I heard him say.

FallenAngel♥

07-28-2009, 11:28 PM

I thought Dr. Klein on one of his interviews said MJ had vitiligo and a form of lupus. I think that's what I heard him say.

Yep he did.

retiredcop

07-28-2009, 11:29 PM

No. She didn't mention it. But apparently she does.

http://www.nutrimedhealthcare.com/DrLee.htm

http://mynutrimed.com/nmdrlee.htm

Here is the link to her website. On there is everything she claims to be. The schools she attended were checked out and the results are on the thread.

I believe she made up the conversations with Mr Jackson which she has no proof of and she is appearing every where she can on TV for her 15 minuets of fame.

in my opinion

GentleBreeze

07-28-2009, 11:32 PM

Michael Jackson did have Discoid Lupus

http://cure4lupus.org/media/michael_jackson_lupus.htm

Jackson had a form of skin lupus called discoid lupus erythematosus

http://insideedition.com/storyprint.aspx?SpecialReportID=3128

if you want more sites i have more

Thank you FA and thank you Athena for your links.

It makes sense.

Here is another site.

http://stateandlake.net/ado/2009/06/29/did-michael-jackson-have-discoid-or-systemic-lupus/
Lupus DLE

Note that less than 5% of patients with discoid lupus go on to develop Lupus SLE. Though 5% looks like a pretty small number, that 5% represents thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people. When you hear a person has lupus, it is never noted whether that person has Lupus SLE, DLE or SCLE. You just hear the word lupus and that could mean anything from skin lesions only to kidney, lung or heart disease.

In MJ’s case, the lesions were found in his scalp after the accident, while he was in the hospital and unfortunately, much of what was done subsequent to his accident to repair his scalp was never quite successful. There were reports that the scaring never fully healed which is common with discoid lupus. MJ wore a host of wigs and some said this was done to cover up gray hair. If the surgeries to repair his scalp were unsuccessful or, if he had discoloring alopecia – which is common with Lupus DLE – then wearing wigs makes sense.

more at link....

daniel green

07-28-2009, 11:40 PM

Well, I can't find it, but it was Dr Klein saying that he was rebuilding MJ's face/nose and that the problems with the nose was not too much plastic surgery but the fact that benoquin (sp) creams had damaged the skin and made it thin.

It's been posted many times on this forum.

So that is right outta the horse's mouth. Not a tabloid.

disneyfreak

07-28-2009, 11:40 PM

Maybe she's licensed in another state.

When you snip a post, you should note that you've snipped it. Please and thank you.

No problem remarking when I <snip> a post. I get lazy sometimes.

She could be registered in another state, however she practices in the state of California and went to school here as well. It wouldn't make sense for her to be licensed elsewhere.

FallenAngel♥

07-28-2009, 11:43 PM

http://mynutrimed.com/nmdrlee.htm

Here is the link to her website. On there is everything she claims to be. The schools she attended were checked out and the results are on the thread.

I believe she made up the conversations with Mr Jackson which she has no proof of and she is appearing every where she can on TV for her 15 minuets of fame.

in my opinion

wouldn't phone records prove what she's saying?

disneyfreak

07-28-2009, 11:45 PM

wouldn't phone records prove what she's saying?
Yes, they should. I don't think she is lying but after the police have talked to her she is still on all over the TV. I am beginning to think she is using this for her 15 minutes of fame.

Unperson1984

07-28-2009, 11:45 PM

Maybe she's licensed in another state.

When you snip a post, you should note that you've snipped it. Please and thank you.

If she is legally practicing in California, she has to be licensed in California.

Imperfect4

07-28-2009, 11:50 PM

No problem remarking when I <snip> a post. I get lazy sometimes.

She could be registered in another state, however she practices in the state of California and went to school here as well. It wouldn't make sense for her to be licensed elsewhere.

I just emailed her and told her I couldn't find her in the CA database. I'll report if I hear back from her.

daniel green

07-28-2009, 11:51 PM

Let's say MJ had vitiligo. Fine.

But the Rx bleaching cream, benoquin, was Rxd to him and he bleached out (permanently) the non-affected skin to match the white vitiligo spots.

Which is an extreme form of treatment, PIGmintantion is usually the preferred and safer treatment.

From the Vitiligo Ntl Foundation:

BACKGROUND:
It is a rare event that a patient with vitiligo inquires about the option of depigmentation. The usual course of action I take when I see a patient for the first time who has extensive vitiligo of more than 50 percent loss of pigment of the exposed areas including the hands, arms, and face is repigmentation. But if repigmentation techniques fail, we should consider depigmentation. Even after we have been unsuccessful in repigmenting their skin with PUVA and topical steroids, patients are sometimes still reluctant to undergo depigmentation. They want to be of one color again, but they fear that they will be too light, that they will burn when they go out in the sun, and that they will not be able to repigment if a cure for vitiligo becomes available in the near future. Additionally, other concerns such as obtaining the medication, allergic reactions due to the depigmenting cream, pigment spots reappearing on the face, extensive repigmentation and even hyperpigmentation occur in a few cases. In spite of all these real difficulties, when one becomes one color, that is totally white, the patient, the families, and the physician have a feeling of great accomplishment. I have never had a patient who was unhappy after being depigmented. Some patients state that they are now cured. More than 50 percent of the patients who begin depigmentation therapy are able to go on to total vitiligo that is, complete depigmentation. The key to depigmentation is the topical application of a cream containing monobenzyl ether of hydroquinone, an antioxidant, that has the generic name monobenzone. The most widely used commercial product is called Benoquin that contains 20 percent monobenzone. Other compounds such as hydroquinone simply do not work. It is a shame that moneys from industry and government have not been available to find other com-pounds and other ways to bring about total vitiligo... Benoquin should never be used as a general lightening agent for people with normal dark skin because most will end up with disfiguring white streaks that can be worse than vitiligo. Patients with an unstable pigmentary system, such as those with vitiligo, depigment easily and usually completely.

http://nvfi.org/pages/info_depigmentation.php