The Autopsy

[TooDarnTired]

I was doing lots of reading and learned quite a few things I never knew before...

The brain had to be soaked in formaldehyde for a few weeks to harden it before actually doing the forensic nitty gritty examination.

By examining the brain ...they can find out how many prior overdoses and when approx they occurred.

I found that fascinating.........

I am including the link...but WARNING GRAPHIC AUTOPSY PHOTOS

http://books.google.com/books?id=KMfs_ezuWdMC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=forensic+brain+examination+autopsy&source=bl&ots=Lr23RzBv3H&sig=poaAlIXXS9-IbutY_YzBZSyv73o&hl=en&ei=wr1tSvz9OpWKNLeX_fgG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

[Zenyatta]

I was doing lots of reading and learned quite a few things I never knew before...

The brain had to be soaked in formaldehyde for a few weeks to harden it before actually doing the forensic nitty gritty examination.

By examining the brain ...they can find out how many prior overdoses and when approx they occurred.

I found that fascinating.........

I am including the link...but WARNING GRAPHIC AUTOPSY PHOTOS

http://books.google.com/books?id=KMfs_ezuWdMC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=forensic+brain+examination+autopsy&source=bl&ots=Lr23RzBv3H&sig=poaAlIXXS9-IbutY_YzBZSyv73o&hl=en&ei=wr1tSvz9OpWKNLeX_fgG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

Good morning, TDT:

WOW - Thank you for that link. Excellent.

Hopefully the autopsy and toxicology reports will be released this week as has been reported.

I wonder how much the Jackson family already knows from any preliminary findings, and to what extent that knowledge may have influenced the words of Latoya and Joe.

[ABC]

Good morning, TDT:

WOW - Thank you for that link. Excellent.

Hopefully the autopsy and toxicology reports will be released this week as has been reported.

I wonder how much the Jackson family already knows from any preliminary findings, and to what extent that knowledge may have influenced the words of Latoya and Joe.
LaToya has been alienated from the family for years and Joe lives in Vegas so of course, they would be the first to have the confidence of the Coroner and be informed of his preliminary finding.

[Zenyatta]

LaToya has been alienated from the family for years and Joe lives in Vegas so of course, they would be the first to have the confidence of the Coroner and be informed of his preliminary finding.

True, but I was surprised to see Katherine Jackson speak lovingly of Joe on a recent primetime magazine show, and wondered if the channels of communication were open again regarding this issue. Have no idea -- just throwing out random thoughts while awaiting results.

[ABC]

ABC - I think your statement should read LaToya WAS alienated and that was during her marriage to Jack Gordon who she finally divorced in 1997.

"In 1997, she ended her estrangement with the entire Jackson family and returned home to Hayvenhurst"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaToya_Jackson


Its true, we learn something new everyday. I thought she was still on the outs with them.

[BOZGAL2]

Thanx for the link TDT

Very fascinating indeed.

[vonna]

Good article TDT. It will probably be more difficult in this case because according to EMT he was dead when they arrived but he was not pronounced officially dead until 2:26PM that afternoon and then taken to the coroner. The autopsy wasn't started until the next morning. :angry:

The 911 call was placed at 12:21PM and the storage unit contents were removed at 9:22AM so I believe it should be somewhere in between 9AM (that he was discovered dead) so I agree with your guestimate of 3 hours or possibly longer; at least before 911 was called. JMO

After the strenuous practicing he did - it's difficult for me to understand why Michael wanting an injection to put him to sleep. How said this is what happened.

[VC2]

athena, from your comment in the closed thread...the reason fluids can help is because it increases blood pressure during resuscitation attempts, low blood pressure is one lethal side effect of diprivan. It also is a way to get multiple medications used in the attempts into the body quickly. We have no way of knowing if it was a few minutes or hours, and we also have no way of knowing if the statement by his attorney was correct, he found a thready femoral pulse. Then fluids are a norm, for all sorts of reasons.

As far as an empty bag goes, whether or not it is empty doesn't tell you anything, it is if the thumbwheel valve is open or closed You can have an empty bag in a patient with no problem so long as you closed the valve before there was nothing in the actual line. It looks like a little wheelie grip that as you turn crushes the line closed. It can be moved up on the line or close to hand depending on if you will be sitting or standing.

here is a picture: http://jjgeisler.com/reeftank/iv_drip_system.htm

[ABC]

LaToya has NOT been alienated from the family for years. Do you ever even pick up a copy of Ebony magazine or watch BET?

No, I never watch BET or read Ebony but Athena2 cleared up my "mistake" on this tiny issue TWO DAYS ago. :scared:

[retiredcop]

I was doing lots of reading and learned quite a few things I never knew before...

The brain had to be soaked in formaldehyde for a few weeks to harden it before actually doing the forensic nitty gritty examination.

By examining the brain ...they can find out how many prior overdoses and when approx they occurred.

I found that fascinating.........

I am including the link...but WARNING GRAPHIC AUTOPSY PHOTOS

http://books.google.com/books?id=KMfs_ezuWdMC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=forensic+brain+examination+autopsy&source=bl&ots=Lr23RzBv3H&sig=poaAlIXXS9-IbutY_YzBZSyv73o&hl=en&ei=wr1tSvz9OpWKNLeX_fgG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

Very interesting and informative link. Thanks TDT.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I was just reading that California

"California, the code of civil procedure denies public access to autopsy reports. Autopsy records in the remaining states are generally open"

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:E4Sk8jGYLqMJ:www.pathology.ufl.edu/~resident/webfiles/archive/Issue2_files/page0004.htm+California+autopsy+report+photos+publ ic+record&cd=15&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Although I am not aware of any California Public Records Act case on point, the United States Supreme Court recently interpreted a similar provision in the federal Freedom of Information Act (Exemption 7(C)) to provide privacy rights that were held by the deceased's family. The case is National Archives and Records Administration v. Favish, 541 U.S. __ (2004), and the opinion was unanimous

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:EBzD7F0SrMMJ:www.cfac.org/Lawyers/hotline_autopsy_public_official.htm+California+aut opsy+report+photos+public+record&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

So CA doesn't have to release the Autopsy reports? I wonder if we are going to get the entire report or just the toxicology results.

I take it the family can request the autopsy report not be released. Bummer, I've never seen this before in any other states. Usually public record outweighs the family's wishes.

in my opinion

[aproudmom]

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream3

at Dr Murrays home

[retiredcop]

http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream3

at Dr Murrays home

Is this happening now? I can't get anything to play.

in my opinion

[Zenyatta]

Hi Too Darn Tired:

Last night you speculated that you thought the combination of Demerol and Diprivan may have killed Michael.

Doctor Drew Pinsky agrees it may have been a combination of drugs. I hope the autopsy will be able to determine this if it is the case. Especially if Michael's prior use of Demerol may have made him more vulnerable to the effects of Diprivan.

I'm bringing this post over from the daily thread:

Please see bold highlights.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...27/acd.01.html

//snip//
COOPER: A lot of questions tonight about the doctor and the drug he allegedly gave Jackson, the drug which may have stopped his heart.

Joining me now, Dr. Michael Rodriguez, professor at the UCLA Department of Family Medicine. Also with us, addiction specialist Dr. Drew Pinsky.

Dr. Rodriguez, so, how serious of a doctoring is propofol?

DR. MICHAEL RODRIGUEZ, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, UCLA DEPARTMENT OF FAMILY MEDICINE: Propofol is a very serious, very potent sedative. It is used primarily in the operating room, as well as intensive care unit, and in a few select other monitored circumstances.

It's very serious. And the reason is because it can make you stop breathing. And, as we could see, it makes people die as well.

COOPER: So, if -- if a patient says, "I would like to take it to help me sleep" -- although we know it doesn't help somebody sleep; it actually just sort of puts them under -- if they said they wanted this done in their own home by someone who is not a trained anesthesiologist, does that make sense to you?

RODRIGUEZ: Insomnia is a very common problem. Many people suffer it -- from it.

And this medication, it's not a medication -- it's not a medication that is commonly used for insomnia. There's many different ways to treat it. It wouldn't make sense for most physicians, for any physician, to use this in someone's home.

COOPER: Dr. Drew, have you ever heard of a situation where this drug was administered outside of a medical facility in someone's home?

DR. DREW PINSKY, AUTHOR, "CRACKED: PUTTING BROKEN LIVES TOGETHER AGAIN": I have never heard of such a thing, A.

B, I have seen propofol addiction before in anesthesiologists and physicians. That's the only time I have seen that, because they are the only ones who are aware of this medication. It doesn't exist outside of a hospital. It is a dangerous medicine that requires very careful -- careful monitoring.

And, Anderson, there just isn't a protocol for the treatment of insomnia on this planet that includes propofol, A. And, B, it is specifically a very serious problem for an addict, because, when it's combined with other things, it is likely to cause breathing problems.

And it's even been associated with very severe cardiac rhythm disturbances. We hear stories about Michael taking other medicines. The combination may have been the thing that really did him in.

COOPER: Are there people who -- I mean, these people who do take it and who get addicted to it who are anesthesiologists, you're talking about, I mean, do they like the feeling it gives them? Does it make them feel high? Or they like, what, a woozy feeling?

PINSKY: Yes. They like to feel high. They also like to feel disconnected.

People that are trauma survivors very often don't like to feel the pain that they walk around in day in and day out. There's also been a report of Michael Jackson having been a pain patient. And he may have sleep problems related to pain, related opiate withdrawal, God knows what. And this may have been a desperate attempt for relief, but not a safe one, and not an appropriate one, and certainly never appropriate for someone with a history of addiction.

COOPER: How delicate, Dr. Rodriguez, is -- is the dosing of this?

RODRIGUEZ: Oh, it's extremely delicate and very dangerous, as was -- as just said. In fact, in some individuals, people can overdose and people can start -- can have significant impact on their ability to breathe.

And, so, it really is something that can only be done under a monitored situation by experienced physicians, primarily anesthesiologists.

COOPER: Dr. Drew, when you heard that Michael Jackson had an anesthesiologist on tour with him back in -- on -- during the HIStory tour, did that make any sense to you?

PINSKY: No. What I thought was, uh-oh, this is a very serious problem.

Look, even an anesthesiologist should not be prescribing this medicine outside of a hospital, and certainly not for insomnia, and certainly not with an addict history. It's really just something that is just, unfortunately, really outlandish.

I'm beginning to formulate a theory that there may have been -- there's a medicine called methadone that pain patients get on all the time these days. And there has been a rash of sudden deaths from that, with very serious cardiac rhythm disturbances. It has been reported with the combo with propofol. And a -- even a cardiologist wouldn't be able to bring a patient back from that.

My just -- myself -- it's pure speculation, but I have a feeling, when we get the toxicology report, you may hear about another medicine called methadone.

COOPER: Dr. Drew, what do you make of -- you know, there had been report that -- that, at one point, Jackson was taking dozens of -- of Xanax. Is that even possible? I mean, I know Xanax is highly...

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

COOPER: ... can be highly addictive...

PINSKY: Oh, yes.

COOPER: ... but dozens? I took half a Xanax one time after some operation, and, I mean, was knocked out. I couldn't -- you know, it's incredibly strong stuff.

Taking dozens?

PINSKY: Well, Anderson, you are what my patients call a lightweight.

But, that being said...

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: Well, I -- believe me...

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: Yes, in more ways than one.

PINSKY: That being said, my patients take 10, 12, 15 milligrams of Xanax a day. They take up to -- I have seen up to 100 Vicodin a day. So, addicts build a tolerance and they're able to tolerate a lot.

When they get into trouble is, A, if they stop for a while and then start back up with their customary doses, or, B, combine it with something that it really doesn't belong with, like, in this case, something like propofol. That is where they get into very serious trouble quickly.

COOPER: Unbelievable.

Dr. Rodriguez, good to have you on.

Dr. Pinsky, as well, thank you very much.

//end//

[mrsmcgoo]

I have a feeling that MJ was dead for hours before the 911 call took place, that would explain why CPR was done on the bed. Dr Murray already knew he wasn't coming back. I hope the exact time of death can be determined.

I also believe that it will be a combination of drugs that caused MJ's death, not one drug.

All, just my opinion.

[Zenyatta]

alledged autopsy report for comparison when the offical one is released. Let's see if there was a leak!



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2505693/The-shock-findings-of-the-Michael-Jackson-autopsy.html

Thank you. If any of this is true, it's answered the question I've asked several times about whether or not Michael had enough hair growth to test the hair for long term Diprivan use (as some of the talking heads have claimed will happen). (I'm not trying to be insensitive about his hair loss. I just want to know).

Hopefully other tests will provide an accurate depiction of past and long term drug use. Like some other posters, I believe the cumulative effects of long term use of a combination of different drugs may have caused that final dose of Diprivan to kill him. imo

[Firehead11]

Thank you. If any of this is true, it's answered the question I've asked several times about whether or not Michael had enough hair growth to test the hair for long term Diprivan use (as some of the talking heads have claimed will happen). (I'm not trying to be insensitive about his hair loss. I just want to know).

Hopefully other tests will provide an accurate depiction of past and long term drug use. Like some other posters, I believe the cumulative effects of long term use of a combination of different drugs may have caused that final dose of Diprivan to kill him. imo


That autopsy report was printed 4 days after Jackson's death. I doubt if much will be collaberated with the 2 autopsies that have been performed.

[Zenyatta]

That autopsy report was printed 4 days after Jackson's death. I doubt if much will be collaberated with the 2 autopsies that have been performed.

Good morning Firehead11,

I should have put the IF ANY is bold caps, but I was afraid someone would think I was yelling :biggrin:

[Firehead11]

Good morning Firehead11,

I should have put the IF ANY is bold caps, but I was afraid someone would think I was yelling :biggrin:


NP. I did the same thing when Anna Nicole Smith died. I kept the "Star" and compared it to the autopsy report. Was very much different.

[retiredcop]

I think the coroner is having trouble with the cause and manner of death. If that was already determined, why not release the report? Investigations and charges can and have gone on well after the release of an autopsy report.

just my opinion only

[retiredcop]

According to the local news, they are waiting for the chief of police to return from vacation.

Oh Geez!! I guess he can't decide when he will return from vacation since they keep putting off the release for a week at a time.

in my opinion

[vonna]

I don't think so Arguendo. Just yesterday they said they probably would release it next week (and Bratton is due to return next week) but now they are not even giving an estimated date. I don't think they have finished the investigation yet and will not release it until everything is done. :shrug:

I don't think they will release the autopsy report until they gather all the evidence they need against Dr. Murray.

[disneyfreak]

I don't think so Arguendo. Just yesterday they said they probably would release it next week (and Bratton is due to return next week) but now they are not even giving an estimated date. I don't think they have finished the investigation yet and will not release it until everything is done. :shrug:
That's what I've been thinking too Athena. In some cases they will not release the entire autopsy until after trial, so I don't think we'll be seeing that for a while if the DA decides to charge Murray. (For example the LA Coroner didn't release the autopsies of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown during the trial).

[RootBeer]

I just knew we would never see the autopsy report. :angry: