Rep. Virginia Foxx: ‘There Are No Americans Who Don’t Have Health Care’

[daniel green]

Perhaps the most attention-grabbing moment occurred when Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-NC) announced that “there are no Americans who don’t have healthcare“: Rep. Virginia Foxx (R-N.C.) disputes President Obama’s claim that 47 million Americans lack healthcare. “There are no Americans who don’t have healthcare. Everybody in this country has access to healthcare,” she says. “We do have about 7.5 million Americans who want to purchase health insurance who can not afford it,” she says, urging Congress to adopt a new plan for healthcare reform that wouldn’t “destroy what is good about healthcare in this country” and “give the government control of our lives.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/24/foxx-americans-health-care/

Bless her heart, she is the same one who stepped in it by claiming that Matthew Sheppard had not been killed because of his sexual orientation and that it was not a hate crime.

[Circe]

Well,she must have heard Bush say so........we can all just jaunt off to the E.R.

[Circe]

Circe, would you please be a sport and take that jaunt?

Because the last time I was in the waiting room at our local E.R., it was heart breaking. My friend (with insurance) was inside, receiving care. Outside with me were plenty of parents with babies screaming due to whatever condition(s) brought them to the E.R.

Now ... please .... correct me, if I am wrong ..... but I am to believe that those parents did not want health care, would not prefer to take their children to a pediatrician of their choice or to one of the available clinics where the wait is generally less than an hour?

That's what Foxx and some of the RW want me to believe. jmg :blink:

Oh, you don't need to tell me. What I want is for all those people that think that we don't need some kind of health care reform spend at least a year with what all the rest of us have to put up with daily. Things like long waits, denials, high co-pays and unaffordable premiums. But that won't happen, cause their motto seems to be I got mine, so screw you. And what's the real kicker.......people like Foxx get their health care paid for by people like you and me.

JMO, of course.

[Barbara2]

She's right.

IMO

I can't say that she is right. I personally know someone who is without health insurance. He owns his own business and business has not been good this year. His health insurance was costing him $32,000.00 a year so he dropped it. He has serious (hereditary, no fault of his own) heart problems. He has had a number of bypass and artery-clearing procedures. Going without health insurance is VERY dangerous but he didn't feel he had a choice. Granted, that is one example. I have to believe there are others.

[Barbara2]

Sorry. I just re-read what she said. Every American DOES have health care. It just might bankrupt them to pay for it if they don't have insurance.

[Circe]

I can't say that she is right. I personally know someone who is without health insurance. He owns his own business and business has not been good this year. His health insurance was costing him $32,000.00 a year so he dropped it. He has serious (hereditary, no fault of his own) heart problems. He has had a number of bypass and artery-clearing procedures. Going without health insurance is VERY dangerous but he didn't feel he had a choice. Granted, that is one example. I have to believe there are others.

Well,she's right only in the sense that people make the choice not to buy insurance simply because they can't afford it. Of course, that really isn't a choice at all, but you'll never get people like Foxx to admit any such thing. You're just supposed to go without things like food, clothing, a place to live........

[Lady_Jean_La]

Well,she's right only in the sense that people make the choice not to buy insurance simply because they can't afford it. Of course, that really isn't a choice at all, but you'll never get people like Foxx to admit any such thing. You're just supposed to go without things like food, clothing, a place to live........People make choices for young people health insurance is a low priority. Many people are covered in a variety of ways. imo

[daniel green]

People make choices for young people health insurance is a low priority. snipped

What does this mean? That American children and minors are responsible for not having insurance? That they make it a low priority? :scared:

The OP is not about insurance. Foxx said that there are no Americans without health care, btw.

[daniel green]

Why offer more people health insurance, Rep. Michelle Bachmann (R-Minn.) asked at a press conference Friday, if they might lengthen waits for doctors and otherwise increase the "hassle factor" for her? "That's like having a mother bear protecting her little cubs, and she's seeing that she has to move heaven and earth to get her child what her child needs," Bachmann said, referring to the health care reforms being debated by Congress. "We'll do it if we have to, but why put ourselves in that situation?"..."I think most all of us here have had the opportunity to take our kids to a fast-food restaurant," said Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.). "We want to get a good dinner, and you walk in and there's 50 people there and it seems like everybody in line wants to buy food for their soccer team or whatever. The American people aren't particularly good at standing in line, but that's exactly what's going to happen if this health care plan goes through."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/24/bachmann-other-gop-mother_n_244348.html

[Circe]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/24/bachmann-other-gop-mother_n_244348.html

Oh well.........heaven forfend that poor Bachman should suffer any kind of "hassle."

[watcher2005]

The solution is the return of real jobs to America.

[Lady_Jean_La]

What does this mean? That American children and minors are responsible for not having insurance? That they make it a low priority? :scared:

The OP is not about insurance. Foxx said that there are no Americans without health care, btw.
Very true. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

The solution is the return of real jobs to America.

Very true! imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Well damn! :thumbsup:ALRIGHT!!!
I never knew I was covered...

Thank you Ms. Foxx and also timeandspace for my health info.
Do you have a doctor?

[Lady_Jean_La]

What does this mean? That American children and minors are responsible for not having insurance? That they make it a low priority? :scared:

The OP is not about insurance. Foxx said that there are no Americans without health care, btw.It also says health insurance.

[Patriot]

It also says health insurance.

Either way, she's right. There isn't an American alive who would be denied care, regardless of their circumstances or whether or not they are insured. The signs posted in every hospital in the country attest to that. The dooms day criers would have us believe otherwise - that there are people dying due to lack of health care - but that would be the nations with socialized health care that they are talking about. You know - the system where you have to get in line to see the specialist or have a certain test after the government approves it as necessary - and then die while waiting.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Either way, she's right. There isn't an American alive who would be denied care, regardless of their circumstances or whether or not they are insured. The signs posted in every hospital in the country attest to that. The dooms day criers would have us believe otherwise - that there are people dying due to lack of health care - but that would be the nations with socialized health care that they are talking about. You know - the system where you have to get in line to see the specialist or have a certain test after the government approves it as necessary - and then die while waiting.

What if the Americans were in Iran?

[Lady_Jean_La]

What if they were???
Would they be denied care?

[Lady_Jean_La]

No idea. Maybe you should read up on that. Why did you choose Iran?

The poster above who I was asking said that no American would be denied. I think most Americans would want to know where they would be covered. Is it just USA allies? Or would nations who are less than friendly also be covered?

As far as the USA, I don't think it is just Americans but everyone. I hope that works both ways.

I chose Iran because they are not very friendly and have taken Americans hostage in the past. But that was just an example. How about China? Argentina? France?

[Lady_Jean_La]

Oh, you added more countries. No idea ..... but wouldn't you just get medical travel insurance to cover an unexpected need for treatment anywhere? That's what we do ........ it works well. Additionally, we can go anywhere in the world if life-saving treatment can't be gotten here, for whatever reason, and be covered. Is that what you mean?

I was just wondering if the statement above was true.

There isn't an American alive who would be denied care, regardless of their circumstances or whether or not they are insured.

I'm thinking there might be somewhere that statement isn't true.

[Patriot]

Iran has tried to be friendly and been rebuffed, even labelled a terrorist country, right after they offered aid after 9/11. What have they done to you to be less than friendly? Is it on the Medical Tourism list offered down there? I think there's a site explaining all the nations offering services for people unwilling to wait or looking for more affordable care, not sure what it's called. I'll try to find out for you though what the status of their health care is towards tourists.


Yeah, Iran is real friendly towards America.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/04/AR2009060402305.html

:rolleyes:

[Patriot]

(snip) And give an attempt to ADD to this thread. tia



And yet, you are the one pointing fingers about people being "board monitors"? ROTFL. You are so right, proper. You are the supreme be-all, end-all authority on all topics posted.Your clever use of words to put every poster who does not share your views in their place is awesome and inspiring. I bow to you. Carry on and have a great night. :thumbup:

[Lady_Jean_La]

When did this morph into care in other countries? And why Iran, of all places (as if I don't already know) :rolleyes: They had a puppet oil-friendly ruler installed by the CIA whose secret police tortured and murdered them for years. And yet, they're still relatively friendly. Dunno if Iran is the one you want to pick on here. But back to topic ...... I can't see any nation denying treatment to anyone. If there's a charge, I'm sure your insurance should cover it under most plans.

Good to know everyone has health care everywhere. Thank you.

[daniel green]

I was just wondering if the statement above was true.

There isn't an American alive who would be denied care, regardless of their circumstances or whether or not they are insured.

I'm thinking there might be somewhere that statement isn't true.

Yep. That would be right here in the US of A.

Try getting treatment for debilitating allergies without insurance, or ongoing psychiatric treatment, or monitoring of diabetes, or having an infected tooth taken out or getting glasses when one is 6 yrs old and cannot see as far as the board at school.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Did I say that? I have no idea if everyone has health care everywhere. I said I would think they would offer care, but I really have no idea. You asked if you would get care in Iran.

http://www.gfmer.ch/Medical_search/Countries/Iran.htm

I couldn't find much, but they seem quite up on their medical research, maybe you could get studied there, anyway :confused:

Iran was just an example. I'm pretty sure health care is available most places.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Yep. That would be right here in the US of A.

Try getting treatment for debilitating allergies without insurance, or ongoing psychiatric treatment, or monitoring of diabetes, or having an infected tooth taken out or getting glasses when one is 6 yrs old and cannot see as far as the board at school.I thought dental care wasn't part of the plan being discussed.

:confused:

[Lady_Jean_La]

We have service organizations who collect used glasses; even cardboard boxes to drop used glasses into so we do not have to go out of our way. A nice gesture, but w/o a doctor to distribute the glasses, this helps how?

Doctors without borders distributes them. imo

[daniel green]

Iran was just an example. I'm pretty sure health care is available most places.

Try Appalachia, right here in our country and see how much of that health care is so plentiful.

[daniel green]

We have service organizations who collect used glasses; even cardboard boxes to drop used glasses into so we do not have to go out of our way. A nice gesture, but w/o a doctor to distribute the glasses, this helps how?

What, like every kid grabs one for his/her self without testing????? :ohmy:

[Lady_Jean_La]

Try Appalachia, right here in our country and see how much of that health care is so plentiful.Who said it was plentiful in Appalachia?

:confused::confused:

[daniel green]

Twelve-year-old Deamonte Driver died of a toothache Sunday. A routine, $80 tooth extraction might have saved him. If his mother had been insured. If his family had not lost its Medicaid. If Medicaid dentists weren't so hard to find. If his mother hadn't been focused on getting a dentist for his brother, who had six rotted teeth. By the time Deamonte's own aching tooth got any attention, the bacteria from the abscess had spread to his brain, doctors said. After two operations and more than six weeks of hospital care, the Prince George's County boy died. Deamonte's death and the ultimate cost of his care, which could total more than $250,000, underscore an often-overlooked concern in the debate over universal health coverage: dental care.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022702116.html

Our national shame, in this the richest country on earth.

And this goes on every day. What would have cost $80 and the life of a child, goes on to cost the death of a child and $250K in medical care.

A shame. Our national shame.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Try Appalachia, right here in our country and see how much of that health care is so plentiful.

http://www.arh.org/default.php

ARH provided nearly $126 million in charity and uncompensated care in the past year alone.

[daniel green]

It is impossible for kids to learn if their teeth hurt, they can't see well, they can't breathe easily, and they're hungry. Yet 30 percent of the young people in some of our poorest school districts have untreated dental problems, uncorrected vision problems, untreated asthma, and inadequate diets. The two -- education and health -- go together."

Robert Reich

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/2/749231/-What-should-be-done-with-the-stimulus-money-for-education

[Lady_Jean_La]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022702116.html

Our national shame, in this the richest country on earth.

And this goes on every day. What would have cost $80 and the life of a child, goes on to cost the death of a child and $250K in medical care.

A shame. Our national shame.

I hope dental is included in any health plan by congress.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Robert Reich

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/2/749231/-What-should-be-done-with-the-stimulus-money-for-education

Congress needs to find a solution for this.

[daniel green]

Low-income children are in worse health than other children are. This paper explores the extent to which insults to health and activity limitations are responsible. In the most recent National Health Interview Survey (NHIS) data, low-income children are more likely than other children to have virtually every measured chronic or acute condition and are more likely to be limited by these conditions. Mental health conditions are particularly common and limiting. But the higher incidence of measured conditions and limits does not explain all of the relationships between income and overall health status, which suggests that unmeasured illnesses and injuries are also involved

http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/abstract/26/2/331

[daniel green]

The James family in Fort Worth, Texas, should be celebrating right now. After losing his last job due to the difficult economy, Jason James, who worked as a supervisor at a warehouse company, had been searching for new employment for months. When he finally found a new position, his job offer coincided with wife Misty receiving a raise at her job. It was a happy time for the couple―until they realized that their combined income was now over the Texas Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) income limit for their family, $44,100 for a family of four or 200 percent of the federal poverty level. Although they now make too much to qualify for CHIP, even with both parents working, the family can't afford to pay for private health insurance. So this means that at the time of their next CHIP renewal, their three children will lose their health coverage...Unfortunately, the James family is all too familiar with the consequences of being uninsured. Several years ago, the family experienced a lapse in coverage for similar reasons. Health coverage through Misty’s job would have cost them roughly 12 percent of their salaries, making it financially out of reach after paying child care and other basic expenses. During that period their oldest son, 11-year-old Isaiah, had a painful cavity that went untreated for nearly two years. When they were finally able to take him to a dentist, they learned that Isaiah's tooth had abscessed down to his jaw bone and required an emergency root canal. Isaiah ultimately lost his tooth and now has permanent jaw damage.

http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/marian-wright-edelman-child-watch-column/health-coverage-making-too-little.html

[daniel green]

Child Health in The United States
Number of children without health insurance (and percent uninsured) 8.9 million

Number of children enrolled in the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) 7,144,794

Number of children enrolled in Medicaid 28,259,469

Children as a percent of total Medicaid enrollment 49.8%

Medicaid expenditures on children as a percent of total Medicaid expenditures 22.6%

Percent of two-year-olds not fully immunized 33.5%

http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/state-data-repository/cits/children-in-the-states-2008-all.pdf

[daniel green]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/121820/One-Six-Adults-Without-Health-Insurance.aspx

[Susan43]

This is what caused the latest whistle blower, Wendell Potter, to quit his job and come out for a public option in health care reform.

Potter began his trip from health care spokesperson to reform advocate while back home in Tennessee. Potter attended a "health care expedition," a makeshift health clinic set up at a fairgrounds, and he tells Bill Moyers, "It was absolutely stunning. When I walked through the fairground gates, I saw hundreds of people lined up, in the rain. It was raining that day. Lined up, waiting to get care, in animal stalls. Animal stalls."

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html

That healthcare expedition was put on by RAM

http://www.ramusa.org/learn/expeditions.htm

I guess he figures that his fellow Americans shouldn't have to line up and/or beg for medical care.

[daniel green]

This is what caused the latest whistle blower, Wendell Potter, to quit his job and come out for a public option in health care reform.

Potter began his trip from health care spokesperson to reform advocate while back home in Tennessee. Potter attended a "health care expedition," a makeshift health clinic set up at a fairgrounds, and he tells Bill Moyers, "It was absolutely stunning. When I walked through the fairground gates, I saw hundreds of people lined up, in the rain. It was raining that day. Lined up, waiting to get care, in animal stalls. Animal stalls."

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html

snipped.

The pictures from that are literally haunting.

These are Americans, in the richest country on earth.

[LisaM22]

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/24/foxx-americans-health-care/

Bless her heart, she is the same one who stepped in it by claiming that Matthew Sheppard had not been killed because of his sexual orientation and that it was not a hate crime.

they also said there was no recession, republicans in power do not live in the same world the rest of us live in it seems, they need to start paying more attention to the people, rather then just their friends in high places

[LisaM22]

This is what caused the latest whistle blower, Wendell Potter, to quit his job and come out for a public option in health care reform.



http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/profile.html

That healthcare expedition was put on by RAM

http://www.ramusa.org/learn/expeditions.htm

I guess he figures that his fellow Americans shouldn't have to line up and/or beg for medical care.

wow, that is sad, we so need a public option, I can't believe anyone would be against this, well unless they were the same types of folks that would rescind a poor ladies health care for not reporting she had acne when she was younger when she has been paying her premiums on time, just because she now has cancer

[Circe]

Which is it?

They lost their Medicaid or Medicaid dentists were too hard to find. ? They're mutually exclusive.

Unbelievable that this carp can be posted.

imo

Why?

You can be looking for a dentist that will actually take Medicaid, and while you are looking loose your coverage, which will put you in a hell of a bind, IMO. Finding a dentist that is taking new patients can be a challenge on its own.........finding one that actually takes Medicaid can be liking finding one particular grain of sand on the beach.

I don't know if the situation has changed any, I hope it has, but in the state of Missouri for instance, there was a grand total of ONE dentist that took children covered by Medicare at one point. His waiting list was over five years long at one time. Since that's JMO, no link, take it or leave it as you please.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Medicaid and SCHIP include dental.

This is so redundant. It's been posted before and dozens of links were posted showing that there is health care available in the US of A for all children.

Why are we back to the same ol' song?

BTW - I love the links to the same ol' liberal rags. Thanks.

imo

Thank you. In some of the discussions I thought I heard dental would not be included in the government plan. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/marian-wright-edelman-child-watch-column/health-coverage-making-too-little.html
Something similar happened to a friend and he used deferred compensation to lower his income. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

There are more than 47 million people in this Country who do not have health insurance. Unless dead broke, the only medical services they'll receive will be on "an emergency basis" ONLY.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is what the right wing calls quality healthcare. :blink:

mo

Is that 47 million people at the same time or over a survey period of a year or so?

Are about half of the 47 million undocumented workers?

[Lady_Jean_La]

http://www.childrensdefense.org/child-research-data-publications/data/state-data-repository/cits/children-in-the-states-2008-all.pdf

It is a shame so many parents won't immunize their children. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

That was really sad to read.
That is the whole idea. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Actually no, I do not.

I haven't been to a doctor since my six weeks check up when my baby was born.
He turned 28 July 20th.

I am a firm believer in ER for emergencies and not for regular health care...drives up the cost for everyone else IMO.

What I probably need to do is leave the country and renounce my citizenship.

Then I could re-enter illegally and have my health care for free!
And my housing subsidized.
Food stamps

....All the perks a citizen of the USA is denied because they don't earn enough....but should receive AT LEAST before illegals.

KWIM? :smile:



KWYM Good idea. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Why?

You can be looking for a dentist that will actually take Medicaid, and while you are looking loose your coverage, which will put you in a hell of a bind, IMO. Finding a dentist that is taking new patients can be a challenge on its own.........finding one that actually takes Medicaid can be liking finding one particular grain of sand on the beach.

I don't know if the situation has changed any, I hope it has, but in the state of Missouri for instance, there was a grand total of ONE dentist that took children covered by Medicare at one point. His waiting list was over five years long at one time. Since that's JMO, no link, take it or leave it as you please.

"He really cares about the people," said Kathy Grisham, executive director of the nonprofit clinic. "A lot of our patients have been shuttled from agency to agency (to see if they) qualify for Medicaid. They're not always treated like everybody else. Jim makes certain he is present with each person at the clinic, encourages them, hears them."

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/07/19/our_town/071909othunt.txt

[Circe]

http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2009/07/19/our_town/071909othunt.txt

That's wonderful.........but this guy isn't in Missouri.

I know that there have been some changes in the state recently......this article is from a few years back.......

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2005/09/19/focus5.html

Of course, at the end of the article the old tried and true "go to the ER."

Dental and vision insurance rarely gets a mention in any health care debate, but both are as important as other care, and let's face it, even if insurance is offered through a job, the coverage is abysmal.

[Lady_Jean_La]

That's wonderful.........but this guy isn't in Missouri.

I know that there have been some changes in the state recently......this article is from a few years back.......

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2005/09/19/focus5.html

Of course, at the end of the article the old tried and true "go to the ER."

Dental and vision insurance rarely gets a mention in any health care debate, but both are as important as other care, and let's face it, even if insurance is offered through a job, the coverage is abysmal.

When dental is seperate it can cause huge problems. Vision, I don't think is a major problem. But I think they should all be combined. imo

[Circe]

When dental is seperate it can cause huge problems. Vision, I don't think is a major problem. But I think they should all be combined. imo

Vision is a hell of a problem when you can't see any farther than the end of your arm, and can't afford to pay for either the exam or the glasses needed to just see your fingers. I mean, why do you think that most optometrist and opthamologist offices have those boxes where you can donate your old glasses? My guess would be because even they know that there are a heck of a lot of folks out there that just can't afford glasses, and picking up a pair of readers down at the dollar store won't cut it.

I recently paid over 200 bucks for a new pair of glasses........and that was with coverage. No way would I have been able to afford it otherwise.

[R~O~S]

Vision is a hell of a problem when you can't see any farther than the end of your arm, and can't afford to pay for either the exam or the glasses needed to just see your fingers. I mean, why do you think that most optometrist and opthamologist offices have those boxes where you can donate your old glasses? My guess would be because even they know that there are a heck of a lot of folks out there that just can't afford glasses, and picking up a pair of readers down at the dollar store won't cut it.

I recently paid over 200 bucks for a new pair of glasses........and that was with coverage. No way would I have been able to afford it otherwise.

I have both dental and vision coverage. The dental isn't usually a problem, but even the 20% co-pay for my DH can be. He's had work done that was supposedly permanent repairs only to have to have it redone 5 years later and the 20% is 4 figures to the left of the decimal point. Not everyone can do that.

Vision, the co-pay for the exam is very reasonable. Glasses, over $300.00 because I wear bi-focals. That's one pair, I always keep the old pair in the event of an accident, the RX changes every year because I have a degenerating condition.

I can't drive or read, I can't recognize someone standing 10 feet away from me without them, going down a set of stairs is a scary thing. I live in fear of being without my glasses.

How would anyone manage that without coverage?

The Lions club collects old outdated glasses in this area for the needy.

[Circe]

I have both dental and vision coverage. The dental isn't usually a problem, but even the 20% co-pay for my DH can be. He's had work done that was supposedly permanent repairs only to have to have it redone 5 years later and the 20% is 4 figures to the left of the decimal point. Not everyone can do that.

Vision, the co-pay for the exam is very reasonable. Glasses, over $300.00 because I wear bi-focals. That's one pair, I always keep the old pair in the event of an accident, the RX changes every year because I have a degenerating condition.

I can't drive or read, I can't recognize someone standing 10 feet away from me without them, going down a set of stairs is a scary thing. I live in fear of being without my glasses.

How would anyone manage that without coverage?

The Lions club collects old outdated glasses in this area for the needy.

Sounds pretty much like me, although as you say, dental can get to be a big problem if it goes much beyond a routine cleaning or extraction. But for people with no coverage at all.......I guess they just brush and floss a lot and pray, or learn to gum their food. Vision is a must for us, DH is diabetic and so needs a yearly exam.......me, I'm only covered every two years since my eyes are not a problem.........other than needing glasses to see with. :thumbup: Bifocals needed too.

[airportwoman]

Circe, would you please be a sport and take that jaunt?

Because the last time I was in the waiting room at our local E.R., it was heart breaking. My friend (with insurance) was inside, receiving care. Outside with me were plenty of parents with babies screaming due to whatever condition(s) brought them to the E.R.

Now ... please .... correct me, if I am wrong ..... but I am to believe that those parents did not want health care, would not prefer to take their children to a pediatrician of their choice or to one of the available clinics where the wait is generally less than an hour?

That's what Foxx and some of the RW want me to believe. jmg :blink:

There are many reasons why people use an ER instead of a private physician. Maybe they don't live in this town, maybe it was the weekend and the doctor's office wasn't open, maybe the doctor sent them there, maybe the bus goes by the hospital but not the doctor's office? Also, if you are on Medicaid, the ER is "free" and requires no appointment. Lots of ER abuse comes from this population.

OTOH, there are other methods of ER abuse that are really terrible. I have a relative whose ex-husband had to pay the kids' medical bills after they divorced, and she would take the kids to the ER even if they weren't sick just to soak him. :cursing:

[airportwoman]

Sorry. I just re-read what she said. Every American DOES have health care. It just might bankrupt them to pay for it if they don't have insurance.

ITA. All Americans have health care; the issue is paying for it, and in some cases, having to travel to access certain services or procedures. Now, people in, say, Darfur genuinely do not have health care.

Some people who can afford insurance choose not to have it. Some people do not carry insurance because of their religious beliefs, which is a legitimate reason (I live in an area with a sizable Amish population and they are often patients at the hospital where I work, and are NEVER insured), but some people really do not have their priorities straight.

There are lots of people who have all kinds of luxuries which they purchase before the necessities, and then there are people like the pharmacist I once worked with, a single guy whose income at the time was around $50,000 a year (mid 1990s) and he did not carry insurance which cost $10 a week "because I don't need it." This was a man who censured me for being nice to Medicaid patients, when he was probably more likely than 90% of the population to someday end up on it! Maybe he's healthy, but healthy people get in car accidents, get cancer, etc. too.

He would do things (when I wasn't there) like tell the Medicaid people that it would be an hour's wait and make them wait an hour, even if it wasn't busy, and some of the other employees had seen him taking things like cough syrup and antibiotics into the bathroom. :ohmy: Had he been caught, this would have definitely cost him his job and maybe even his license.

Whatever the parents may have done, it is NOT the kids' fault! Most Medicaid dollars are spent on the elderly anyway. Who do you think foots the bill for all those people in nursing homes?

[airportwoman]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022702116.html

Our national shame, in this the richest country on earth.

And this goes on every day. What would have cost $80 and the life of a child, goes on to cost the death of a child and $250K in medical care.

A shame. Our national shame.

Whaddya bet the mom could have come up with the $80 if she skipped a trip to the manicurist, or spent a little less time on her cell phone, or cancelled the cable TV, or didn't buy that designer outfit, or whatever?

You are correct, however, about Appalachia. Many of those people still live in Third World conditions; many are eligible for Medicaid but do not know it, or cannot travel to the office to register.

[Patriot]

ITA. All Americans have health care; the issue is paying for it, and in some cases, having to travel to access certain services or procedures. Now, people in, say, Darfur genuinely do not have health care.

Some people who can afford insurance choose not to have it. Some people do not carry insurance because of their religious beliefs, which is a legitimate reason (I live in an area with a sizable Amish population and they are often patients at the hospital where I work, and are NEVER insured), but some people really do not have their priorities straight.

There are lots of people who have all kinds of luxuries which they purchase before the necessities, and then there are people like the pharmacist I once worked with, a single guy whose income at the time was around $50,000 a year (mid 1990s) and he did not carry insurance which cost $10 a week "because I don't need it." This was a man who censured me for being nice to Medicaid patients, when he was probably more likely than 90% of the population to someday end up on it! Maybe he's healthy, but healthy people get in car accidents, get cancer, etc. too.

He would do things (when I wasn't there) like tell the Medicaid people that it would be an hour's wait and make them wait an hour, even if it wasn't busy, and some of the other employees had seen him taking things like cough syrup and antibiotics into the bathroom. :ohmy: Had he been caught, this would have definitely cost him his job and maybe even his license.

Whatever the parents may have done, it is NOT the kids' fault! Most Medicaid dollars are spent on the elderly anyway. Who do you think foots the bill for all those people in nursing homes?


Do you have a link to show that Medicaid covers nursing homes? I would be very suprised to hear that.

[airportwoman]

Why?

You can be looking for a dentist that will actually take Medicaid, and while you are looking loose your coverage, which will put you in a hell of a bind, IMO. Finding a dentist that is taking new patients can be a challenge on its own.........finding one that actually takes Medicaid can be liking finding one particular grain of sand on the beach.

I don't know if the situation has changed any, I hope it has, but in the state of Missouri for instance, there was a grand total of ONE dentist that took children covered by Medicare at one point. His waiting list was over five years long at one time. Since that's JMO, no link, take it or leave it as you please.

I once lived in a city of 300,000 that had very few dentists who took Medicaid, and the newspaper decided to find out why. They didn't have to do much digging, because the dentists came out of the woodwork to say why.

In addition to the pay rate being so low they would lose money, they said, over and over, that they rarely show up for their appointments, nor do they call to cancel, and they are often so abusive to staff and their children are so disruptive, they have had to call the police on them. One of them said, "People can't get their kids to the dentist, but they always have the means to get to (an amusement park that is 3 hours away and costs $30 a person to get into)."

This does a huge disservice to people who have fallen on hard times like job loss, death of a spouse, or divorce, and people like my aforementioned grandmother. Now, my dad would have paid any dental bills but not everyone has that kind of backup.

My own dentist does not take Medicaid, but she does do some work for free or reduced cost on referral from some social service agencies.

[airportwoman]

Do you have a link to show that Medicaid covers nursing homes? I would be very suprised to hear that.

Medicare is very stingy regarding nursing home coverage. However, most nursing homes, except for the more exclusive ones, almost always take Medicaid and in fact the majority of the residents are going to be on it.

Like I said, that's who footed the bill for my grandmother's nursing home care for the last 3 years of her life, and she was even on it for a couple years before that because her only income was Social Security and her only property was her furniture.

[Mimi428]

Do you have a link to show that Medicaid covers nursing homes? I would be very suprised to hear that.

I'm taking you at your word that you are surprised to hear that. I thought it was fairly well-known.

Here is one link about it.

http://seniorhealth.about.com/od/findinglongtermcare/f/Medicaid_NH.htm
Excerpt...

Medicaid is a federal program administered at the state level that provides health care for low income individuals. It also pays for nursing home care for low income elderly and disabled Medicare recipients who require that type of care. To qualify for Medicaid the potential recipient must meet a means test - their income and assets must be under a certain level as determined by the individual state. Most states use a percentage of the Federal Poverty guidelines as the measuring stick to determine eligibility for Medicaid.

[Mimi428]

Here's another link about Medicaid paying for nursing home care.

http://www.larcc.org/pamphlets/elderly/pay_nursinghome_t19.htm

This pamphlet gives an overview of Medicaid (or "Title 19") rules for people who need help paying for nursing home care. It talks about what assets, property and income a person can keep and still be eligible for Medicaid to pay the nursing home bill. It also gives information for married couples when one spouse needs nursing home care and the other spouse remains at home trying to make ends meet.

[Patriot]

I'm taking you at your word that you are surprised to hear that. I thought it was fairly well-known.

Here is one link about it.

http://seniorhealth.about.com/od/findinglongtermcare/f/Medicaid_NH.htm
Excerpt...

Medicaid is a federal program administered at the state level that provides health care for low income individuals. It also pays for nursing home care for low income elderly and disabled Medicare recipients who require that type of care. To qualify for Medicaid the potential recipient must meet a means test - their income and assets must be under a certain level as determined by the individual state. Most states use a percentage of the Federal Poverty guidelines as the measuring stick to determine eligibility for Medicaid.

Thanks for the info and no, I had no clue. When my grandmother needed to go into a home, it was a financial stress for the family and my mother and aunt were getting advice on putting her home and small savings into their names so as not to have it all taken by the nursing home care. All of her social security went for the nursing home. I have several friends who have parents in nursing homes and it is a real financial burden on them and their families.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Vision is a hell of a problem when you can't see any farther than the end of your arm, and can't afford to pay for either the exam or the glasses needed to just see your fingers. I mean, why do you think that most optometrist and opthamologist offices have those boxes where you can donate your old glasses? My guess would be because even they know that there are a heck of a lot of folks out there that just can't afford glasses, and picking up a pair of readers down at the dollar store won't cut it.

I recently paid over 200 bucks for a new pair of glasses........and that was with coverage. No way would I have been able to afford it otherwise.

It is a problem but bad teeth can kill from infection.

While there is some overlap with medical and optical it is not near as confusing as medical and dental. imo

[R~O~S]

I'm taking you at your word that you are surprised to hear that. I thought it was fairly well-known.

Here is one link about it.

http://seniorhealth.about.com/od/findinglongtermcare/f/Medicaid_NH.htm
Excerpt...

Medicaid is a federal program administered at the state level that provides health care for low income individuals. It also pays for nursing home care for low income elderly and disabled Medicare recipients who require that type of care. To qualify for Medicaid the potential recipient must meet a means test - their income and assets must be under a certain level as determined by the individual state. Most states use a percentage of the Federal Poverty guidelines as the measuring stick to determine eligibility for Medicaid.

It is true medicaid pays for nursing home care. However the patient must spend down all of their assets to qualify.

I had a heartbreaking conversation with an elderly services advocate this week. His client, with no family has a life insurance policy. The face amount is $5K, the average funeral is $6k to $8K.

The client is allowed to keep $72 from her SS check for personal needs which includes all personal care items and clothing. The insurance premium is $52 a month.

He cannot justify paying for the insurance policy from her $72 a month, if he allows it to maintain itself by using it's own cash value until exhausted she will end up with no insurance and no cash value to show for the premiums she's paid to date. If he changes the policy to a paid up policy using the current cash value she'll have $770 to spend on her own funeral.

This client worked all her life, did all the right things, and she will end up in potters field because she got old and sick. We should all be ashamed.

[PoppySeeds]

Do you have a link to show that Medicaid covers nursing homes? I would be very suprised to hear that.

How many would you like?


http://seniorhealth.about.com/od/findinglongtermcare/f/Medicaid_NH.htm


http://www.medicare.gov/nursing/Payment.asp

Medicaid is a State and Federal program that will pay most nursing home costs for people with limited income and assets. Eligibility varies by State. Check your State's requirements to learn if you are eligible. Medicaid will pay only for nursing home care provided in a facility certified by the government to provide service to Medicaid recipients. For more information about Medicaid payments, call the SHIP for your State or call your State's Medicaid office. The telephone number is in the blue pages of the phone book.

http://www.larcc.org/pamphlets/elderly/pay_nursinghome_t19.htm


http://www.360financialliteracy.org/Life+Stages/Sandwich+Generation/Articles/Health+Care+and+Health+Insurance/Medicaid+and+nursing+home+care.htm

[airportwoman]

Vision is a hell of a problem when you can't see any farther than the end of your arm, and can't afford to pay for either the exam or the glasses needed to just see your fingers. I mean, why do you think that most optometrist and opthamologist offices have those boxes where you can donate your old glasses? My guess would be because even they know that there are a heck of a lot of folks out there that just can't afford glasses, and picking up a pair of readers down at the dollar store won't cut it.

I recently paid over 200 bucks for a new pair of glasses........and that was with coverage. No way would I have been able to afford it otherwise.

These glasses are distributed by the Lions Club and other organizations (the Lions Club distributes hearing aids too) and while most of the glasses go to Third World countries, I would imagine they could find a home in the U.S. if a person needed them.

And if they didn't, the Lions Club might pay for them. Are there any Lions Club members here who know more than I do?

When both of my grandmothers died :rose: , that's who got their glasses.

[Circe]

Whaddya bet the mom could have come up with the $80 if she skipped a trip to the manicurist, or spent a little less time on her cell phone, or cancelled the cable TV, or didn't buy that designer outfit, or whatever?

You are correct, however, about Appalachia. Many of those people still live in Third World conditions; many are eligible for Medicaid but do not know it, or cannot travel to the office to register.

I just love how people jump to the conclusion that if someone doesn't have insurance, well they either chose not to, or they could have it if they just didn't want something silly like cable TV or a designer outfit. It's never that they just flat out couldn't afford it.

And as for Appalachia.......if this is the richest country in the world, as we are so proud of saying..........why in the bloody blue hell can ANY part of this country be described in terms of a third world country.........and why do we permit it in the first place?????

[Circe]

It is true medicaid pays for nursing home care. However the patient must spend down all of their assets to qualify.

I had a heartbreaking conversation with an elderly services advocate this week. His client, with no family has a life insurance policy. The face amount is $5K, the average funeral is $6k to $8K.

The client is allowed to keep $72 from her SS check for personal needs which includes all personal care items and clothing. The insurance premium is $52 a month.

He cannot justify paying for the insurance policy from her $72 a month, if he allows it to maintain itself by using it's own cash value until exhausted she will end up with no insurance and no cash value to show for the premiums she's paid to date. If he changes the policy to a paid up policy using the current cash value she'll have $770 to spend on her own funeral.

This client worked all her life, did all the right things, and she will end up in potters field because she got old and sick. We should all be ashamed.

Slightly OT, but if you know someone who has one of those pre-paid funeral plans, double check that thing and see what it does and does not provide. My mother had one, and if it hadn't been for the kindest most wonderful funeral director in the world, I don't know what we would have done, because the company that my mother had bought from refused to honor their contract.

(Anyone in KCMO want to buy a funeral plot? Never been used. :biggrin:)

[Lady_Jean_La]

I just love how people jump to the conclusion that if someone doesn't have insurance, well they either chose not to, or they could have it if they just didn't want something silly like cable TV or a designer outfit. It's never that they just flat out couldn't afford it.

And as for Appalachia.......if this is the richest country in the world, as we are so proud of saying..........why in the bloody blue hell can ANY part of this country be described in terms of a third world country.........and why do we permit it in the first place?????

About the best people can do is judge others on their own basis. Many didn't choose coverage and others gave up things to get coverage. Perhaps very few just couldn't afford it.

I doubt the USA is the richest by most standards. Remember the market fall?

imo

[Circe]

About the best people can do is judge others on their own basis. Many didn't choose coverage and others gave up things to get coverage. Perhaps very few just couldn't afford it.

I doubt the USA is the richest by most standards. Remember the market fall?

imo

What??? They aren't judging on their own basis.........they're judging by stereotypes, IMO.

Do you REALLY think that people choose a TV or a dress over their or their childrens health?!?!?! Maybe some single 20 something who thinks that he's invicible.........but that is hardly "many." And it's more than just a "few" who can't afford it.

JMO, of course.

[beattherap]

What??? They aren't judging on their own basis.........they're judging by stereotypes, IMO.

Do you REALLY think that people choose a TV or a dress over their or their childrens health?!?!?! Maybe some single 20 something who thinks that he's invicible.........but that is hardly "many." And it's more than just a "few" who can't afford it.

JMO, of course.

the census bureau reports that 7.8% of the uninsured lived in households with annual incomes above $75k; another 14.5% with incomes betwen $50k-$75k... i'd guess a decent portion from that group could get insurance...

here's a guy who rejected health insurance and put the savings in savings accounts and mutual funds...http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourHealth/uninsured-by-choice-are-you-nuts.aspx?page=2...

i don't know how many are like him or others mentioned in the article.

imo.

[daniel green]

I just love how people jump to the conclusion that if someone doesn't have insurance, well they either chose not to, or they could have it if they just didn't want something silly like cable TV or a designer outfit. It's never that they just flat out couldn't afford it.

snipped

It was an outragous post. Truly despicable, Circe. I read it and, literally, gasped out loud.

[daniel green]

snipped
What I probably need to do is leave the country and renounce my citizenship.

Then I could re-enter illegally and have my health care for free!
And my housing subsidized.
Food stamps

]

You might wanna ck out the facts before doing that. Because no undocumented aliens can live in govt housing or get food stamps.

[Lady_Jean_La]

the census bureau reports that 7.8% of the uninsured lived in households with annual incomes above $75k; another 14.5% with incomes betwen $50k-$75k... i'd guess a decent portion from that group could get insurance...

here's a guy who rejected health insurance and put the savings in savings accounts and mutual funds...http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourHealth/uninsured-by-choice-are-you-nuts.aspx?page=2...

i don't know how many are like him or others mentioned in the article.

imo.

I know many people who don't have insurance of any kind until it is forced on them. imo

[daniel green]

What??? They aren't judging on their own basis.........they're judging by stereotypes, IMO.

Do you REALLY think that people choose a TV or a dress over their or their childrens health?!?!?! Maybe some single 20 something who thinks that he's invicible.........but that is hardly "many." And it's more than just a "few" who can't afford it.

JMO, of course.

The mother in the article, who lost her little boy at age 6, because he had no dental coverage worked three jobs, as per the article in the WaPost I linked (and the poster could not have read)

The Driver children have never received routine dental attention, said their mother, Alyce Driver. The bakery, construction and home health-care jobs she has held have not provided insurance. The children's Medicaid coverage had temporarily lapsed at the time Deamonte was hospitalized. And even with Medicaid's promise of dental care, the problem, she said, was finding it.

[Circe]

the census bureau reports that 7.8% of the uninsured lived in households with annual incomes above $75k; another 14.5% with incomes betwen $50k-$75k... i'd guess a decent portion from that group could get insurance...

here's a guy who rejected health insurance and put the savings in savings accounts and mutual funds...http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourHealth/uninsured-by-choice-are-you-nuts.aspx?page=2...

i don't know how many are like him or others mentioned in the article.

imo.

Interesting article. It does point out that rejecting insurance and using the money in those ways is a heck of a gamble.......one serious illness could wipe it all out in a heartbeat.

As for the people in the 75k range......it depends on the premiums and how many in the house and such things as pre-existing conditions, along with other expenses.....if you have a pre existing and can actually find a comany that will cover you, the premiums and copays could put it out of reach even with what some would consider good money. And let's not forget that while 75k in say Nebraska would be a nice chunk of change, in some place like L.A. or N.Y. it wouldn't be.

[airportwoman]

No way, no how is a family on ~ $20K per year likely to have $200 available for healthcare each month. But maybe, if they budget really well, there's $20 disposable income every few months, after the kids have shoes and clothes, so mom does buy a dress every couple of years or dad gets a new pair of slacks for work. Let's kick them and ream them for their "waste."

Can't speak for anyone else, but i sure would resent the intrusiveness to my budget that the working poor endure from the RW.

I'm pretty sure that a family (even a family consisting of just a husband and wife, or a parent with one child) with a total income of $20,000 a year would be eligible for Medicaid, in addition to food stamps and lots of other benefits. I am in no way implying that low-income people ride any kind of gravy train.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Interesting article. It does point out that rejecting insurance and using the money in those ways is a heck of a gamble.......one serious illness could wipe it all out in a heartbeat.

As for the people in the 75k range......it depends on the premiums and how many in the house and such things as pre-existing conditions, along with other expenses.....if you have a pre existing and can actually find a comany that will cover you, the premiums and copays could put it out of reach even with what some would consider good money. And let's not forget that while 75k in say Nebraska would be a nice chunk of change, in some place like L.A. or N.Y. it wouldn't be.

Will the government insurance cost less in Nebraska?

[PoppySeeds]

You might wanna ck out the facts before doing that. Because no undocumented aliens can live in govt housing or get food stamps.



Really? People here illegally can't get section 8 housing?

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/obamas-aunt-may-have-gone-back-to-kenya/

[airportwoman]

It was an outragous post. Truly despicable, Circe. I read it and, literally, gasped out loud.

How long have you worked in health care - any aspect of health care?

Check out the http://www.allnurses.com website's board. If you were horrified by what I said, go check out viewpoints from people who really are in the trenches.

[daniel green]

Really? People here illegally can't get section 8 housing?

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/obamas-aunt-may-have-gone-back-to-kenya/

Not sure what you are asking, but she did not come in to the US illegally.

[daniel green]

People choose crack cocaine and meth over the health of their children or purchasing $6 packs of cigarettes over the health of their children. I don't understand why you find it so difficult to beleive that people would choose cell phones and cable TV and Coach, Juicy Coture or FUBU over the health of their children?

What do those stereotypes have to do with hard working American families who cannot get health care coverage?

In my 20 yrs of working with children in poverty I have yet to meet one family who has Juicy Couture or Coach or any of the things you mention.

[LisaM22]

It's also a fautly premise to assume that every one who has a child puts that child's welfare above all else unless addicted to drugs.

IMO

so your saying we should not have universal health care cause some have health issues like addictive personalities, sorry, those people need treatment too, and we do not punish children for their parents mental problems, more research is being done on this all the time, this is a health problem, but even if it was not, why do you think the rest of America should suffer because you feel some do not deserve help?

[Mimi428]

I'm pretty sure that a family (even a family consisting of just a husband and wife, or a parent with one child) with a total income of $20,000 a year would be eligible for Medicaid, in addition to food stamps and lots of other benefits. I am in no way implying that low-income people ride any kind of gravy train.

What state are you referring to? What state do you live in?

I can tell you that no healthy adult in the state of Texas gets Medicaid coverage unless they are a pregnant female. An unhealthy adult would be told to file for Social Security Disability if they could not work.

Any single adult working for the minimum wage would be eligible for $75 a month in food stamps in Texas. You can find the link & put in the figures yourself on the 'minimum wage increase' thread - I looked it up earlier.

As for "lots of other benefits", sorry, I can't follow what you mean by that - can you explain? TIA

[Mimi428]

About the best people can do is judge others on their own basis. Many didn't choose coverage and others gave up things to get coverage. Perhaps very few just couldn't afford it.


Perhaps very few just couldn't afford it?

Are you kidding me?

I posted this in the other thread about healthcare - this was in answer to someone who posted that people who didn't have private insurance could just apply for & get health insurance through the state run risk pool - AND that such coverage typically would cover a pre-existing condition.

More about the fabulous state-run health insurance pool in the state of Texas. Please note that in order to be eligible for this coverage in the first place, you must have at least one of the qualifying conditions, like a history of malignancy, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, HIV, silicosis, sickle cell anemia, etc.

Here is the link to the overview -

http://www.txhealthpool.org/eligibil.html

Notice what it says about pre-existing conditions (& take into consideration you have to have a pretty significant health condition in the FIRST place, in order to be eligible) -

During the first 12 months following the effective date of Health Pool coverage, the policy does not pay benefits for any charges or expenses for any Preexisting Condition.

Exceptions are made if you have had continuous coverage (no gap of over 63 days just before this pool coverage takes effect)

And what are the monthly premiums for this fabulous plan, you ask?

Here's the link to that page. The state is broken down into areas. I live in Area Two, so I will look there & use a friend of mine as an example. He does have a condition that would qualify him for the plan, but he has not had insurance for over a year, so the pre-existing condition clause applies.

http://www.txhealthpool.org/080109standardratetable.pdf

$1000 Deductible - $996 per month.
$2500 Deductible - $743 per month.
$5000 Deductible - $578 per month.
$7500 Deductible - $509 per month.

So...for the 1st year of coverage, he would pay over $6000 at the very least for an insurance policy which would not cover him for the most significant threat to his health. In the best case scenario, he would pay over $6000 in premiums plus $7500 deductible = $13,500, should he be so fortunate as to have something come up that would NOT be denied as pre-existing.

I know he takes several prescription meds every day, but I don't know the costs, so I can't factor that in.

When that is the cost of coverage, I don't think it is at all reasonable to say that only a very few could not afford it.

[Circe]

What do those stereotypes have to do with hard working American families who cannot get health care coverage?

In my 20 yrs of working with children in poverty I have yet to meet one family who has Juicy Couture or Coach or any of the things you mention.

Having spent some time in welfare offices......as a client........I can say that not once did I see any of those things either........nor did I own any. People give away their real biases when they make such stereotyped statements.

[daniel green]

Having spent some time in welfare offices......as a client........I can say that not once did I see any of those things either........nor did I own any. People give away their real biases when they make such stereotyped statements.

YUP YUP.

It's like a neon sign when spoken/written that it's about personal prejudices/bias. Not reality.

[daniel green]

Can you imagine the sense of emergency there'd be in Washington if seven full-fledged 9-11 attacks happened each and every year, year in and year out? "What's the rush to enact health care reform?" is the question being asked by Republicans and conservative Democrats. What's the rush? Are they serious? Seven 9-11 attacks every single year ... and "What's the rush?" is all we get from these so-called people's representatives! If anyone needed further proof that conservatives in congress care not for the needs of average Americans but rather for the profits of big-time corporations, this calculated, politically-motivated foot-dragging combined with the fact that 22,000+ Americans die each and every year from lack of health insurance is that proof.


http://thedemocraticactivist.blogspot.com/2009/07/22000-americans-die-each-year-from-lack.html


http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/411588_uninsured_dying.pdf

[Lady_Jean_La]

Perhaps very few just couldn't afford it?

Are you kidding me?

I posted this in the other thread about healthcare - this was in answer to someone who posted that people who didn't have private insurance could just apply for & get health insurance through the state run risk pool - AND that such coverage typically would cover a pre-existing condition.

More about the fabulous state-run health insurance pool in the state of Texas. Please note that in order to be eligible for this coverage in the first place, you must have at least one of the qualifying conditions, like a history of malignancy, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, HIV, silicosis, sickle cell anemia, etc.

Here is the link to the overview -

http://www.txhealthpool.org/eligibil.html

Notice what it says about pre-existing conditions (& take into consideration you have to have a pretty significant health condition in the FIRST place, in order to be eligible) -

During the first 12 months following the effective date of Health Pool coverage, the policy does not pay benefits for any charges or expenses for any Preexisting Condition.

Exceptions are made if you have had continuous coverage (no gap of over 63 days just before this pool coverage takes effect)

And what are the monthly premiums for this fabulous plan, you ask?

Here's the link to that page. The state is broken down into areas. I live in Area Two, so I will look there & use a friend of mine as an example. He does have a condition that would qualify him for the plan, but he has not had insurance for over a year, so the pre-existing condition clause applies.

http://www.txhealthpool.org/080109standardratetable.pdf

$1000 Deductible - $996 per month.
$2500 Deductible - $743 per month.
$5000 Deductible - $578 per month.
$7500 Deductible - $509 per month.

So...for the 1st year of coverage, he would pay over $6000 at the very least for an insurance policy which would not cover him for the most significant threat to his health. In the best case scenario, he would pay over $6000 in premiums plus $7500 deductible = $13,500, should he be so fortunate as to have something come up that would NOT be denied as pre-existing.

I know he takes several prescription meds every day, but I don't know the costs, so I can't factor that in.

When that is the cost of coverage, I don't think it is at all reasonable to say that only a very few could not afford it.

No kidding, very few. imo

[Mimi428]

No kidding, very few. imo

How much, in your estimation, would a person reasonably have to earn each month in order to afford a $900 per month health insurance premium?

How much of a monthly health insurance premium do you think would be affordable for someone making minimum wage? Or someone making $10 an hour - or $15 an hour?

[Lady_Jean_La]

how much, in your estimation, would a person reasonably have to earn each month in order to afford a $900 per month health insurance premium?

How much of a monthly health insurance premium do you think would be affordable for someone making minimum wage? Or someone making $10 an hour - or $15 an hour?

$2,700.

$300

[Mimi428]

$2,700.

$300

About the $2,700 - gross monthly income -or net?

And the $300 premium for a single adult earning the minimum wage & working 40 hours a week would leave that person about $730 to live on for the rest of the month.

This is not directed at you, but the one thing I have always had a hard time understanding is why it is perfectly acceptable to some folks that an adult can work 40 hours a week & be living in poverty.

Where I live, a single adult making minimum wage would not be able to afford an efficiency apartment with utility bills (gas, water, electricity), groceries, car insurance & gasoline to put in a paid-for vehicle. How pathetic is that?

[Lady_Jean_La]

About the $2,700 - gross monthly income -or net?

And the $300 premium for a single adult earning the minimum wage & working 40 hours a week would leave that person about $730 to live on for the rest of the month.

This is not directed at you, but the one thing I have always had a hard time understanding is why it is perfectly acceptable to some folks that an adult can work 40 hours a week & be living in poverty.

Where I live, a single adult making minimum wage would not be able to afford an efficiency apartment with utility bills (gas, water, electricity), groceries, car insurance & gasoline to put in a paid-for vehicle. How pathetic is that?

Net.

The person could live with others.

[Mimi428]

Net.

The person could live with others.

Oh, I don't doubt that people 'could' do all sorts of things. And do.

But regardless of what anyone 'could' do, it does not alter the fact that an adult working 40 hours a week at minimum wage is living at the poverty level. IMO, that is a downright disgrace to our country that so many people are just fine with it.

It is so easy to excoriate the working poor. We look down our noses at parents who don't spend enough time with their children & blame them for all the ills of society. We decry the lack of "family values". But at the same time, we have not even the slightest twinge of conscience that poor parents cannot afford to spend time with their children if they only work 40 hours a week. NO, we demand that they work more hours & ignore that it results in even less time to devote to actually raising children.

JMO

[snookums1]

Oh I see. Let them room with a bunch of other people. Perhaps they choose not to do that because some people value their privacy. So many of you people on this forum make me laugh, (or just want to cry depending on the circumstances.)

My family and I live in the state hardest hit by unemployment in this country. We own a very modest home, well within our means in normal times. Our mortgage is not upside down as we never used a home equity loan or anything like that.

My wife drives a 12 year old car, I drive 10 year old car. I do most of the mechanical work on them as I used to turn a wrench for a living years ago and have a garage full of tools accumulated over the years. Saves us money for all but the hardest repairs which I'm getting to old to do.

We have NO CREDIT CARDS. Those were cut up several years ago and the balances paid off long ago. We did all the right things including saving money both in 401ks and in a savings account. Our budget was (and is such), that one of us can just about swing the bills. Not quite, but pretty close. We pay cash for everything. We don't have it, we don't buy it.

Neither one of us have cell phones. It's an unnecessary expense. We have a bundle through one of the cable providers that gives us phone, internet, and cable for under 100.00 a month. Locked in rate.

Sounds like we should be on top of the world right? WRONG! Last year I had to file a Chapt.13 Bankruptcy due to medical bills. I've been laid off, on and off, for the last 8 years. That's the nature of the industry I make my living at, and happens to be the largest employer in the state I live in.

We have not been able to afford Medical Insurance for at least 5 years due to rising costs on the COBRA end. Nor can we afford the policy that my wife's job offers as it's increased from 65.00 a week (2 person coverage ), to over 150.00 a week. I carried our coverage for a while at 100.00 a week which was ok until another layoff happened.

Single COBRA coverage for myself was over 800.00 per month. Double coverage was in the neighborhood of 1,400.00. Not something that could be afforded with one person working and the remainder being made up with unemployment. Plus the drain on both our savings acct and 401k. The 401k is worthless after the crash last year, and savings has been drained down to nothing due to house repairs, car repairs that I couldn't do, etc.

Now I've read in many posts on here that Healthcare is available to all. That is true to a certain extent. If you have a life threatening crisis happening hospitals do have to treat you by law. You can't be turned away. Only in one post about that subject did one person say, (and that was said tongue in cheek), that it would probably bankrupt you. In my case it did.

I had to be hospitalized twice in a years time span for life threatening conditions. The total cost for those two times exceeded 100,000 dollars. After assessing the financial damage done I had no choice but to file a Chapt. 13 bankruptcy. That was fine as I have no problem paying for lifesaving treatment, but a year later I'm laid off again and now have to file a Chapt. 7 rollover because I can no longer afford the weekly payments to the Trustee. BTW we still don't have health insurance coverage because we can't afford it.

I also don't want to hear about all those wonderful programs that cover people like my wife and I. They DO NOT exist unless it's in GOP fairy land. After the second surgery we looked into every state and Federal program we could get find, and worked with Reps for all those programs. Unemployed or not, we made just enough money not to qualify. We are some of the millions that slip through the cracks every years.

Anyone that thinks our system is the "best in the world", think again. It's not. It's broken beyond repair and I only pray that some of the people on here don't end up like my wife and myself. You do everything right, you are fiscally responsible, and you end up getting it up the can because of sheer greed by the Industry. By the way my story is not unique by any stretch of the imagination. Millions of us are going through it every year. JMHO As you say Storm, you are not unique. My next door neighbor just had to file for bankruptcy for the very same reasons. And I know of a number of other people that fall in the same catagory. I also have had friends that have died of treatable conditions simply because they could not afford health insurance even though they worked. What we have for health coverage in this country is nothing short of a disgrace.

[Mimi428]

Oh I see. Let them room with a bunch of other people. Perhaps they choose not to do that because some people value their privacy. So many of you people on this forum make me laugh, (or just want to cry depending on the circumstances.)

Anyone that thinks our system is the "best in the world", think again. It's not. It's broken beyond repair and I only pray that some of the people on here don't end up like my wife and myself. You do everything right, you are fiscally responsible, and you end up getting it up the can because of sheer greed by the Industry. By the way my story is not unique by any stretch of the imagination. Millions of us are going through it every year. JMHO

<snipped>

Thank you for taking the time to tell us something about your circumstances. If I had a magic wand, I would wave it over every person who denies or tries to minimize the dire straits that so many people are in, & put them in your shoes for 3 months.

I do not know if you are familiar with this program, but it is available to everyone, regardless of their circumstances.

http://www.angelfoodministries.com/hosts.asp

Angel Food is available in a quantity that can fit into a medium-sized box at $30 per unit. Generally, one unit of food assists in feeding a family of four for about one week or a single senior citizen for almost a month. The food is all the same high quality one could purchase at a grocery store. There are no second-hand items, no damaged or out-dated goods, no dented cans without labels, no day-old breads and no produce that is almost too ripe.

Here is the food that is being distributed in the $30 box for the month of August.

1.5 lb. Ribeye Steaks (4 x 6 oz.)
3 lb. IQF Split Chicken Breast
1 lb. Boneless Center Cut Pork Chops
2 lb. Mac &?Beef Dinner Entrée
1.5 lb. Breaded All White Meat Chicken Nuggets
1 lb. 80/20 Lean Ground Beef
1 lb. Bake or Fry Fish Sticks (32 sticks)
1 lb. Frozen Corn
1 lb. Frozen Baby Lima Beans
1 ct. Cello-Wrapped Iceberg Lettuce
2 lb. Sweet Potatoes
15 oz. Pork & Beans
1 lb. Rice
32 oz. 2% Shelf Stable Milk
Dozen Eggs
Dessert

There are additional boxes which can be purchased -a Senior/Convenience Box, a Frozen/Dry Mix Allergen-Free Food Box, etc.

[Mimi428]

I got mine to h@ll with you seems to be the way of the world these days.

<snipped>

I used to think the same way. But after reading some of the comments, I have started to change my thinking. So many seem to express the idea that the person is afraid something will be taken away from them.

Now it is more like, "I got mine & I am going make darn sure you can't get the same thing I get. If you don't have it already, you obviously don't deserve it."

JMO

[airportwoman]

<snipped>

Thank you for taking the time to tell us something about your circumstances. If I had a magic wand, I would wave it over every person who denies or tries to minimize the dire straits that so many people are in, & put them in your shoes for 3 months.

I do not know if you are familiar with this program, but it is available to everyone, regardless of their circumstances.

http://www.angelfoodministries.com/hosts.asp

Angel Food is available in a quantity that can fit into a medium-sized box at $30 per unit. Generally, one unit of food assists in feeding a family of four for about one week or a single senior citizen for almost a month. The food is all the same high quality one could purchase at a grocery store. There are no second-hand items, no damaged or out-dated goods, no dented cans without labels, no day-old breads and no produce that is almost too ripe.

Here is the food that is being distributed in the $30 box for the month of August.

1.5 lb. Ribeye Steaks (4 x 6 oz.)
3 lb. IQF Split Chicken Breast
1 lb. Boneless Center Cut Pork Chops
2 lb. Mac &?Beef Dinner Entrée
1.5 lb. Breaded All White Meat Chicken Nuggets
1 lb. 80/20 Lean Ground Beef
1 lb. Bake or Fry Fish Sticks (32 sticks)
1 lb. Frozen Corn
1 lb. Frozen Baby Lima Beans
1 ct. Cello-Wrapped Iceberg Lettuce
2 lb. Sweet Potatoes
15 oz. Pork & Beans
1 lb. Rice
32 oz. 2% Shelf Stable Milk
Dozen Eggs
Dessert

There are additional boxes which can be purchased -a Senior/Convenience Box, a Frozen/Dry Mix Allergen-Free Food Box, etc.

And these can be purchased with food stamps. :thumbsup:

[airportwoman]

Hi Mimi, thank you for your compassion and that information. It's not something we've had to look at yet as we can still manage the bills. However I have a couple neighbors that may find it very useful.

What we can't manage would be the additional monthly cost of health insurance. No matter how tightly we budget it's just not in the cards. I've seen all those compassionate posts about giving up phones, internet access etc. Who are they trying to kid. You don't find a job these days without access to the net. I'm hooked into 84 different resume blaster sites and one needs a phone to set up interviews.

My wife and I are not unique by any stretch of the imagination. There are millions of us out there that can't afford coverage. And it's sure not because we go and have pedicures done, or get fake nails. I went 6 months without a haircut to save money and just recently went and spent the 11.00 necessary just in case I do get an interview call. I don't know what planet some of these people are from, but it sure ain't earth. More like GOP bubble land.

There are millions of people in your situation, and you are NOT what I was talking about when I made those earlier posts about people who get manicures, have top of the line cell phones and other electronics, buy video games and cigarettes, etc. before paying for essentials.

It's just that I have personally seen enough of it to know what I am talking about.

I volunteered at a food pantry in the early 1990s, and was quite surprised at its demographics. I had expected it to be a parade of women with kids whose husbands had just walked out on them, but that wasn't the case. It was mostly senior citizens, and the food pantries where I live now have said the same thing. I'm saying this because I do contribute generously, and adjust my purchases accordingly. I also like to buy things that aren't covered on food stamps, like soap, laundry detergent, and feminine hygiene products.

[snookums1]

Not unique by any stretch of the imagination. According to some on here this just doesn't happen because we have the "best health care coverage in the world". What a freaking sick joke. I got mine to h@ll with you seems to be the way of the world these days. My sincere prayer is none of the nay sayers ever end up in a situation like ours. The tune would change so quickly it would make your head spin. My son met his wife in France while there with his job. They have been married for 11 years. She hates the health care system in this country and says there is no comparison to the doctors or the care between the two countries. She has often said that if either of them should happen to get ill, they will move back to France so they get good care.
About two years ago I had severe abdominal pain and went to an emergency room. They did a complete exam and x-rays, put me on a strict clear liquid diet and set up an appointment with my primary doctor in less than a week, something that would not be possible if not for the emergency status. He checked me and ordered a CT scan. My insurance company refused his request. He then ordered 3 other invasive tests that they agreed to. It took 3 weeks to schedule them all. In the meantime, a friend in Alberta Canada had stomach pain, went to the ER, was given a CT scan, was diagnosed and had surgery for the problem and was home on the road to recovery in a weeks time while I was still waiting for the third test. All of my tests were negative, I still could not eat and the insurance company finally agreed to the CT scan. I had to wait another week to have it and it found the problem. I had to wait almost a week for the surgery. Tell me, which system do you think is better. One where you get taken care of and treated immediately or one where you are in constant pain for over a month waiting for tests and treatment? Both she and I had the same exact problem. Mine started before hers yet she was treated and back to work before I was able to have my surgery.

[snookums1]

There are millions of people in your situation, and you are NOT what I was talking about when I made those earlier posts about people who get manicures, have top of the line cell phones and other electronics, buy video games and cigarettes, etc. before paying for essentials.

It's just that I have personally seen enough of it to know what I am talking about.

I volunteered at a food pantry in the early 1990s, and was quite surprised at its demographics. I had expected it to be a parade of women with kids whose husbands had just walked out on them, but that wasn't the case. It was mostly senior citizens, and the food pantries where I live now have said the same thing. I'm saying this because I do contribute generously, and adjust my purchases accordingly. I also like to buy things that aren't covered on food stamps, like soap, laundry detergent, and feminine hygiene products. What I have personally seen is that most people on welfare only shop at Goodwill or Salvation Army and then only when they can save enough money to do so. If they happen to have a designer shirt or shoes, it is someone else's discard. They tend to be overweight not because they overeat but because they eat cheap instead of healthy. Many don't have cars or phones period.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Oh I see. Let them room with a bunch of other people. Perhaps they choose not to do that because some people value their privacy. So many of you people on this forum make me laugh, (or just want to cry depending on the circumstances.)

My family and I live in the state hardest hit by unemployment in this country. We own a very modest home, well within our means in normal times. Our mortgage is not upside down as we never used a home equity loan or anything like that.

My wife drives a 12 year old car, I drive 10 year old car. I do most of the mechanical work on them as I used to turn a wrench for a living years ago and have a garage full of tools accumulated over the years. Saves us money for all but the hardest repairs which I'm getting to old to do.

We have NO CREDIT CARDS. Those were cut up several years ago and the balances paid off long ago. We did all the right things including saving money both in 401ks and in a savings account. Our budget was (and is such), that one of us can just about swing the bills. Not quite, but pretty close. We pay cash for everything. We don't have it, we don't buy it.

Neither one of us have cell phones. It's an unnecessary expense. We have a bundle through one of the cable providers that gives us phone, internet, and cable for under 100.00 a month. Locked in rate.

Sounds like we should be on top of the world right? WRONG! Last year I had to file a Chapt.13 Bankruptcy due to medical bills. I've been laid off, on and off, for the last 8 years. That's the nature of the industry I make my living at, and happens to be the largest employer in the state I live in.

We have not been able to afford Medical Insurance for at least 5 years due to rising costs on the COBRA end. Nor can we afford the policy that my wife's job offers as it's increased from 65.00 a week (2 person coverage ), to over 150.00 a week. I carried our coverage for a while at 100.00 a week which was ok until another layoff happened.

Single COBRA coverage for myself was over 800.00 per month. Double coverage was in the neighborhood of 1,400.00. Not something that could be afforded with one person working and the remainder being made up with unemployment. Plus the drain on both our savings acct and 401k. The 401k is worthless after the crash last year, and savings has been drained down to nothing due to house repairs, car repairs that I couldn't do, etc.

Now I've read in many posts on here that Healthcare is available to all. That is true to a certain extent. If you have a life threatening crisis happening hospitals do have to treat you by law. You can't be turned away. Only in one post about that subject did one person say, (and that was said tongue in cheek), that it would probably bankrupt you. In my case it did.

I had to be hospitalized twice in a years time span for life threatening conditions. The total cost for those two times exceeded 100,000 dollars. After assessing the financial damage done I had no choice but to file a Chapt. 13 bankruptcy. That was fine as I have no problem paying for lifesaving treatment, but a year later I'm laid off again and now have to file a Chapt. 7 rollover because I can no longer afford the weekly payments to the Trustee. BTW we still don't have health insurance coverage because we can't afford it.

I also don't want to hear about all those wonderful programs that cover people like my wife and I. They DO NOT exist unless it's in GOP fairy land. After the second surgery we looked into every state and Federal program we could get find, and worked with Reps for all those programs. Unemployed or not, we made just enough money not to qualify. We are some of the millions that slip through the cracks every years.

Anyone that thinks our system is the "best in the world", think again. It's not. It's broken beyond repair and I only pray that some of the people on here don't end up like my wife and myself. You do everything right, you are fiscally responsible, and you end up getting it up the can because of sheer greed by the Industry. By the way my story is not unique by any stretch of the imagination. Millions of us are going through it every year. JMHO

If a person must live with others then privacy is quite an incentive. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

My son met his wife in France while there with his job. They have been married for 11 years. She hates the health care system in this country and says there is no comparison to the doctors or the care between the two countries. She has often said that if either of them should happen to get ill, they will move back to France so they get good care.
About two years ago I had severe abdominal pain and went to an emergency room. They did a complete exam and x-rays, put me on a strict clear liquid diet and set up an appointment with my primary doctor in less than a week, something that would not be possible if not for the emergency status. He checked me and ordered a CT scan. My insurance company refused his request. He then ordered 3 other invasive tests that they agreed to. It took 3 weeks to schedule them all. In the meantime, a friend in Alberta Canada had stomach pain, went to the ER, was given a CT scan, was diagnosed and had surgery for the problem and was home on the road to recovery in a weeks time while I was still waiting for the third test. All of my tests were negative, I still could not eat and the insurance company finally agreed to the CT scan. I had to wait another week to have it and it found the problem. I had to wait almost a week for the surgery. Tell me, which system do you think is better. One where you get taken care of and treated immediately or one where you are in constant pain for over a month waiting for tests and treatment? Both she and I had the same exact problem. Mine started before hers yet she was treated and back to work before I was able to have my surgery.

You don't have to go to different countries to find differences in care. You can find that from state to state or even city to city. It can even be different from doctor to doctor. imo

[snookums1]

You don't have to go to different countries to find differences in care. You can find that from state to state or even city to city. It can even be different from doctor to doctor. imo Well lets see now. Since my son travels a lot with his work and in the last 11 years has lived in Texas, Michigan, Florida, Georgia, California, Arizona and a couple area of some of the above, and the health care in all has been substandard in comparison to France, I think IMO that she has a valid point.

[Mimi428]

There are millions of people in your situation, and you are NOT what I was talking about when I made those earlier posts about people who get manicures, have top of the line cell phones and other electronics, buy video games and cigarettes, etc. before paying for essentials.

It's just that I have personally seen enough of it to know what I am talking about.

<snipped>

I have also seen cases like that. I think the problems arise when an individual or group uses the excuse that because some fraudsters exist somewhere, nothing should be done to benefit all those who are not committing fraud.

We could have 10 million folks in desperate need, but all it takes is for someone to claim that 10 thousand in the group have committed fraud or abused the system, & voila! that is sufficient to initiate the hue & cry about how wrong, wrong, wrong it is to expand food stamp programs, or tackle health care reform, etc.

I think you probably also know, just as I know, that ONE medical provider can commit more fraud than a thousand individuals combined.

Upcoding is just one little example of how easy that is to do & I doubt the average patient has the slightest clue on what that is to begin with, much less know if their physician or other health care provider is doing it.

[flareon]

You don't have to go to different countries to find differences in care. You can find that from state to state or even city to city. It can even be different from doctor to doctor. imo

You are exactly right, plus it can also depend on the timing (day/season), your own knowledge/input, the illness itself, etc.

[LisaM22]

You don't have to go to different countries to find differences in care. You can find that from state to state or even city to city. It can even be different from doctor to doctor. imo

sounded more like a insurance problem then a doctor problem to me..... had the insurance company not second guessed the doctor there would of been no issue - I do not mind if insurance companies what to recommend something, but I think the doctor should get the end call

[Lady_Jean_La]

sounded more like a insurance problem then a doctor problem to me..... had the insurance company not second guessed the doctor there would of been no issue - I do not mind if insurance companies what to recommend something, but I think the doctor should get the end call
Sounds like they were both functioning as to their duties. imo

[LisaM22]

Sounds like they were both functioning as to their duties. imo


sounds to me like the doctor was not allowed to do what was needed, that is a problem with the insurance company, not the doctor, the insurance company was thinking about $$$, the doctor was thinking about the patient

[Lady_Jean_La]

sounds to me like the doctor was not allowed to do what was needed, that is a problem with the insurance company, not the doctor, the insurance company was thinking about $$$, the doctor was thinking about the patient

Exactly, that is the way it works, imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Actually, I think all of the nay sayers who are without an ounce of compassion should experience what you and over 47 million people are faced with, many of whom are suffering the consequences of our "broken system". I feel those nay sayers will have a totally different view of things once it touches them.

Their lack of compassion is riveting.

my opinion

I think most of the people commenting here were at one time in the situation of the 47 million. They formed an opinion and are expressing it. imo

[LisaM22]

Last I checked, if you are an American citizen, you are a resident/citizen of at least one of the 50 states.
There is nothing in the Constitution that says we need national healthcare, therefore the individual states should be the ones to decide the way they want to run healthcare imo. (like MA already has done - for better or worse)

I didn't say anything about health being big business for profit. You made that one up yourself apparently.
jmo

I think we do have a constitutional right to universal health care, do something usefull with our tax monies for a change, rather then just more tax cuts for the rich, this would actually help grow America, tax cuts for the rich don't help anyone, not even the rich

[LisaM22]

Exactly, that is the way it works, imo

and that was my point, the insurance overruled the doctor, the one that cares for the patient, they cause the patient to go through more pain and spend more money, miss more work, recover slower then was needed - this is why doctors need to make these decisions, not insurance companies

[LisaM22]

How dare you reduce those in opposition to a universal healthcare plan as nothing more than lack of compassion!

What I am is tired. I am tired and frustrated that I played by the rules my whole life. I budgeted, I worked hard, I sacrificed, I paid my taxes, I gave what I could to charity, and even went without health insurance temporarily and what do I get in return?? People who say I still have not done enough.

I am tired of those who say if I am against this plan - whatever it is today, since no one really knows - that I lack compassion and don't care. Yes, I will look after my own family first....I always have and I always will. And you should too. But, most of us are not that far away from being one of those who cannot afford medical care, and so what little I have, I am interested in looking after it.

There is also nothing wrong imo to question if this is the job of the federal govt. and what role if any they should play. (I think it should be a state issue...I think that is more constitutional).

jmo

why do you think our children should not have a a right to health insurance, they will be stuck with trillions in debt from bush's spend spend spend administration, not to mention the cost to clean up after they left office, I think the least we can do for future generations is give them a civilized universal heathcare plan

any insurance company will tell you the more participants the better, spread the risk, doing it state by state increases the costs many many times - basically you are saying we should have over 50 insurance companies, one for each state, the duplicate efforts would cost the American tax payer - one state doesn't have it, people would just cross over into a state that does, no, that would never work

[LisaM22]

That's the main reason I oppose a government run health care system. I do not want a bureacratic committee determining what treatment my doctor should provide based on cost analyses and mortality tables.

lol, that was the CURRENT system I was describing, not the universal plan :glare:

[LisaM22]

Why do you think I said that our children should not have health insurance?

I have said that I don't think that the proposed universal health plan is the best way to go and I have said it should be dealt with on the state level, but I have never said our children should go without. I have also said that I am very interested in looking after my own family.

moo

having over 50 individually run universal plans would cost us more then the current system, it would never work, a universal plan has greater numbers, and less cost to run then the current system,....

[Lady_Jean_La]

How dare you reduce those in opposition to a universal healthcare plan as nothing more than lack of compassion!

What I am is tired. I am tired and frustrated that I played by the rules my whole life. I budgeted, I worked hard, I sacrificed, I paid my taxes, I gave what I could to charity, and even went without health insurance temporarily and what do I get in return?? People who say I still have not done enough.

I am tired of those who say if I am against this plan - whatever it is today, since no one really knows - that I lack compassion and don't care. Yes, I will look after my own family first....I always have and I always will. And you should too. But, most of us are not that far away from being one of those who cannot afford medical care, and so what little I have, I am interested in looking after it.

There is also nothing wrong imo to question if this is the job of the federal govt. and what role if any they should play. (I think it should be a state issue...I think that is more constitutional).

jmo

Well said! I think you speak for many of us and do it well. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

You have nothing to base that opinion on, and I'm quite sure you are incorrect. We each can only speak for ourselves, don't you agree?

Their opinions were not based on the fact that they've been through any of the life altering situations that have been described. The opinions comes from those with the "I've got mine, and don't care about you" mentality. IMO

JMHO

Are you only speaking for yourself? Sounds like you are speaking for them?

[jaxback]

How dare you reduce those in opposition to a universal healthcare plan as nothing more than lack of compassion!

What I am is tired. I am tired and frustrated that I played by the rules my whole life. I budgeted, I worked hard, I sacrificed, I paid my taxes, I gave what I could to charity, and even went without health insurance temporarily and what do I get in return?? People who say I still have not done enough.

I am tired of those who say if I am against this plan - whatever it is today, since no one really knows - that I lack compassion and don't care. Yes, I will look after my own family first....I always have and I always will. And you should too. But, most of us are not that far away from being one of those who cannot afford medical care, and so what little I have, I am interested in looking after it.

There is also nothing wrong imo to question if this is the job of the federal govt. and what role if any they should play. (I think it should be a state issue...I think that is more constitutional).

jmo

I've stayed out of most of this because the issue seems so incredibly polarized and confusing, but I want to comment on your post. Although I am in favor of a healthcare plan for everyone, I am glad to hear you speak up for those who oppose it for reasons other than lack of compassion.

I don't know if you've been reading these threads a lot, Raptor, but there have been so many posts that are so horribly mean-spirited and uncompassionate (the poor all get welfare that they spend on manicures and drive SUVs; why are poor people even having children, etc.) that I think some of us who support the idea tend to forget that there are perfectly reasonable and compassionate people on the other side of the issue. :smile:

[Lady_Jean_La]

and that was my point, the insurance overruled the doctor, the one that cares for the patient, they cause the patient to go through more pain and spend more money, miss more work, recover slower then was needed - this is why doctors need to make these decisions, not insurance companiesThere is a balance between giver and nay sayer. imo

[emdragon]

Last I checked, if you are an American citizen, you are a resident/citizen of at least one of the 50 states.
There is nothing in the Constitution that says we need national healthcare, therefore the individual states should be the ones to decide the way they want to run healthcare imo. (like MA already has done - for better or worse)

I didn't say anything about health being big business for profit. You made that one up yourself apparently.
jmo

So you're fine with the poor in say Texas being unable to get medical care while the poor in say Colorado have access?

You're fine with location being the deciding factor if a person lives or dies?

Compassion- : sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/compassion

Your posts speak for themselves on the issue of compassion.

I will gladly give my hard earned money to help those in need- no strings attached or questioned asked.
And I am compassionate enough to understand that helping someone else isn't putting my family second. I just know it is the Christian thing to do. period.

[Lady_Jean_La]

having over 50 individually run universal plans would cost us more then the current system, it would never work, a universal plan has greater numbers, and less cost to run then the current system,....Is it fair to make someone in Kansas pay the same as someone in California?

:confused:

[Circe]

Right on! If everyone place top priority on taking care of their family first, most of the problems we face in this society wouldn't exist. But, we all know "it takes a village":rolleyes:

You are absolutely right that if everyone took care of their own instead of whining that people don't care enough about everyone else, this world would be a much better place!

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, or if you really mean this........but I happen to be one that thinks it does indeed "take a village." IMO, things were a heck of a lot better off in this country when neighbor looked out for neighbor instead of the "I got mine, to heck with you" attitude that has been on the rise in this country for a long time now.......when people used to be concerned about the welfare of people instead of the welfare of corporations.

[Lady_Jean_La]

States should be free to cooperate with others if they desire. They should even be free to choose as part of their coverage plans those that are transportable to other states or run in other states. (like we already can with auto insurance).

jmoGreat idea!

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Lady_Jean_La]

Why would it cost more for each state to manage it's own health insurance system?:confused:

Actually it would cost less because of the competition. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, or if you really mean this........but I happen to be one that thinks it does indeed "take a village." IMO, things were a heck of a lot better off in this country when neighbor looked out for neighbor instead of the "I got mine, to heck with you" attitude that has been on the rise in this country for a long time now.......when people used to be concerned about the welfare of people instead of the welfare of corporations.

Some people have the attitude, I got mine and plenty left over for you. imo

[Susan43]

Actually it would cost less because of the competition. imo

Competition? How can there be competition in buying healthcare? Before having an accident can we call around and find out which hospital would be the least expensive? Do we know ahead of time if or what illness is going to strike us down?

One of the most influential economic papers of the postwar era was Kenneth Arrow’s Uncertainty and the welfare economics of health care, which demonstrated — decisively, I and many others believe — that health care can’t be marketed like bread or TVs. Let me offer my own version of Arrow’s argument.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/

And Krugman brings up two very important points here.

[flareon]

I think so too.
The higher up the govt level, the bigger and more unwieldy things tend to get. I also like the freedoms that I think individual states should have the choices on.
Generally, the more local an issue is dealt with, the better it is run and deals with the unique circumstances with each state/community.
jmo

That's correct plus you have more control over who is in office on a state and local level. You are not subjected to another state's choices.

[flareon]

Actually it would cost less because of the competition. imo

It is more likely to be competitive on a local level than on the federal level. Each area would have more control and knowledge of the insurance agencies, facilities, professionals, etc.

[Susan43]

It is more likely to be competitive on a local level than on the federal level. Each area would have more control and knowledge of the insurance agencies, facilities, professionals, etc.

It seems to me that you are just describing what we already have. Right now each state has it's own regulations. And how could we possible bring down administration costs with 50 different administrations? And wouldn't the insurance industry still have the right to decide which doctors and hospitals they would deal with? And which diseases and drugs they would allow? Isn't that what we are already dealing with?

And really, how has that worked out for us so far?

[R~O~S]

It seems to me that you are just describing what we already have. Right now each state has it's own regulations. And how could we possible bring down administration costs with 50 different administrations? And wouldn't the insurance industry still have the right to decide which doctors and hospitals they would deal with? And which diseases and drugs they would allow? Isn't that what we are already dealing with?

And really, how has that worked out for us so far?


Exactly! We currently have 50 insurance commissioners. Every policy, every contract, every form associated with the contract must be approved in every state, by the individual states insurance commissioner, before the product can be offered in that state. The same product can have 50 state specific forms just for changing your address of record.

This is not cost effective. There's no incentive to develop a policy and bring it to the market in all 50 states, because it's prohibitively expensive up front. So, you market the policy only in the states with the highest profit. You certainly wouldn't offer it in a state with a lower population or heaven forbid, older population.

& MA has required health insurance, you pay a state tax penalty if you're not insured. That doesn't do anything to reduce duplication of services for the sake of profit for the medical environment. There is nothing discouraging every facility from doing their own test, when they could request the results for the test already done. Or the cesarean because the OB had a long day.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Competition? How can there be competition in buying healthcare? Before having an accident can we call around and find out which hospital would be the least expensive? Do we know ahead of time if or what illness is going to strike us down?



http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/why-markets-cant-cure-healthcare/

And Krugman brings up two very important points here.

There could be competition for drugs or other medical supplies. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

It is more likely to be competitive on a local level than on the federal level. Each area would have more control and knowledge of the insurance agencies, facilities, professionals, etc.

Good explanation! There are also many local concerns that are difficult to handle on a national basis. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Exactly! We currently have 50 insurance commissioners. Every policy, every contract, every form associated with the contract must be approved in every state, by the individual states insurance commissioner, before the product can be offered in that state. The same product can have 50 state specific forms just for changing your address of record.

This is not cost effective. There's no incentive to develop a policy and bring it to the market in all 50 states, because it's prohibitively expensive up front. So, you market the policy only in the states with the highest profit. You certainly wouldn't offer it in a state with a lower population or heaven forbid, older population.

& MA has required health insurance, you pay a state tax penalty if you're not insured. That doesn't do anything to reduce duplication of services for the sake of profit for the medical environment. There is nothing discouraging every facility from doing their own test, when they could request the results for the test already done. Or the cesarean because the OB had a long day.

I guess it could be compared to local school districts where parents want to have input at a local level. I don't think anyone wants to do away with local control be it education or medicine. imo

[Jumbo1]

States should be free to cooperate with others if they desire. They should even be free to choose as part of their coverage plans those that are transportable to other states or run in other states. (like we already can with auto insurance).

jmo

Divide and conquer....that's the way it is now. Insurance is currently regulated by the states, which leaves them free to pull out of a state if they actually attempt to regulate them in a way that doesn't meet the insurance companies' approval.

[emdragon]

And yet, I do get the feeling your compassion will be severely challenged if I fell on hard times and requested your help.
jmo

And you would be dead wrong.

A person or family in need doesn't have to pass any tests for me to show them compassion and aide.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Divide and conquer....that's the way it is now. Insurance is currently regulated by the states, which leaves them free to pull out of a state if they actually attempt to regulate them in a way that doesn't meet the insurance companies' approval.Is that going to change?

[Not Telling]

Virginia Foxx Warns That Health Care Reform Will Involve Widespread Elder Murder


The contest to be the member of Congress saying the dumbest possible things about health care has just gotten ratcheted up about a thousand more notches, thanks to North Carolina Representative Virginia Foxx. Foxx, if you recall, was the congressional luminary who declared the story of Matthew Shepard's murder a "hoax," right in front of Shepard's mother. She's a delight for the senses, especially the stupid ones!



If she wasn't so despicable, she's be laughable... jmo


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/28/virginia-foxx-warns-that_n_246434.html

[Susan43]

U.S. Pays $2.5 Trillion for Care Costing $912 Billion (Update1)

July 28 (Bloomberg) -- The last time a president tried to overhaul U.S. health care, Americans were spending $912 billion on the system and 40 million were uninsured. Today they’re spending $2.5 trillion and almost 50 million lack coverage.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aFRY..TvUM2M

I hope everyone remembers this article the next time someone claims to be a fiscal conservative. As we spend more and more money for healthcare, we consumers are getting less and less care.

I just keep wondering how many people got kicked off the insurance plan or denied medical care for the CEO of Aetna, Ron Williams to be conpensated $24M in 2008. It really is no wonder the insurance industry wants to keep the status quo.

[logbump]

U.S. Pays $2.5 Trillion for Care Costing $912 Billion (Update1)


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aFRY..TvUM2M

I hope everyone remembers this article the next time someone claims to be a fiscal conservative. As we spend more and more money for healthcare, we consumers are getting less and less care.

I just keep wondering how many people got kicked off the insurance plan or denied medical care for the CEO of Aetna, Ron Williams to be conpensated $24M in 2008. It really is no wonder the insurance industry wants to keep the status quo.

Did I miss something in your link about R.Williams?

[Susan43]

Virginia Foxx Warns That Health Care Reform Will Involve Widespread Elder Murder


The contest to be the member of Congress saying the dumbest possible things about health care has just gotten ratcheted up about a thousand more notches, thanks to North Carolina Representative Virginia Foxx. Foxx, if you recall, was the congressional luminary who declared the story of Matthew Shepard's murder a "hoax," right in front of Shepard's mother. She's a delight for the senses, especially the stupid ones!



If she wasn't so despicable, she's be laughable... jmo


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/28/virginia-foxx-warns-that_n_246434.html

I really can't find her at all humorous. Just the thought that she would fearmonger to our seniors is just freaken despicable.

http://www.aarp.org/issues/dividedwefail/

And here is the transcript of the President's townhall with AARP.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/28/AR2009072801444.html

It has a lot of very good info in it.

[Susan43]

Did I miss something in your link about R.Williams?

:confused: No, but you must be new here because this isn't the first time I have brought him up. You see, I happen to think that there is a correlation between the amount of money we are currently spending for insurance and the amount of conpensation paid to a CEO.

http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/aetnas-ron-williams-ceo-compensation/2009-05-14

[logbump]

Okay, for the single payer advocates, here you go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Rf42zNl9U

[Susan43]

If they had their facts straight, I would listen to the argument, but the false meme of "50 million uninsured" makes the entire article worthless.

Really? So you don't believe that "almost 50 million" people are uninsured? Have a link for that because that seems to be the number that most people believe.

[Susan43]

http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/aetnas-ron-williams-ceo-compensation/2009-05-14



Not even listed in the top 10 on Forbes. In fact the first time Aetna makes the list is at 54.

http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/20/05ceoland.html

US CEO Compensation for Charitable Organizations

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=studies.ceo

WOW! He got quite a raise between 2005 and 2008, didn't he? I don't care what the CEO of a manufacturing company earns any other company as far as that goes. But I do care that we have sick people that these insurance companies are turning down while they rake in the big, huge, dollars. IMO it's criminal.

http://blogs.webmd.com/mad-about-medicine/2007/08/ceo-compensation-who-said-healthcare-is.html

[Lady_Jean_La]

If they had their facts straight, I would listen to the argument, but the false meme of "50 million uninsured" makes the entire article worthless.Resistance is futile, they will repeat it until everyone believes it. Or demean those who don't. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

:confused: No, but you must be new here because this isn't the first time I have brought him up. You see, I happen to think that there is a correlation between the amount of money we are currently spending for insurance and the amount of conpensation paid to a CEO.

http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/aetnas-ron-williams-ceo-compensation/2009-05-14

WoW!!! He did a great job. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Really? So you don't believe that "almost 50 million" people are uninsured? Have a link for that because that seems to be the number that most people believe.

I doubt that. Most people believe over the period of a year as many as 47 million may not have health insurance for a variety of reasons for a short period. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Really? So you don't believe that "almost 50 million" people are uninsured? Have a link for that because that seems to be the number that most people believe.

I doubt that. Most people believe up to 47 million USA residents may not have health insurance for a short time during a one year period for a variety of reasons. imo :hat: :thumbsup:

[daniel green]

I doubt that. Most people believe up to 47 million USA residents may not have health insurance for a short time during a one year period for a variety of reasons. imo :hat: :thumbsup:

Please post a link providing proof of your statement.

[flareon]

I doubt that. Most people believe over the period of a year as many as 47 million may not have health insurance for a variety of reasons for a short period. imo

That's exactly right. That number is not accurate and there are various reasons why people don't have insurance.

[Lady_Jean_La]

That's exactly right. That number is not accurate and there are various reasons why people don't have insurance.
Well, I am sure there are a few people who are in a tough position and just expect everyone feels like them. Misery loves company they say. But facts are facts. imo
:mellow:

[flareon]

Well, I am sure there are a few people who are in a tough position and just expect everyone feels like them. Misery loves company they say. But facts are facts. imo
:mellow:

Well, that number has been floated by those with an agenda in order to make it more dire and the number has been debunked by those who think that there are better ways to reform the system. Common sense tells you that there is not only one reason people do not have insurance, especially with the younger people.

[Mimi428]

Well, I am sure there are a few people who are in a tough position and just expect everyone feels like them. Misery loves company they say. But facts are facts. imo
:mellow:

What's your definition of "a few"? 1 million? 10 thousand?

How many of the people who have lost their jobs over the past year do you think have health insurance? Half? Ten percent?

[Mimi428]

Well, that number has been floated by those with an agenda in order to make it more dire and the number has been debunked by those who think that there are better ways to reform the system. Common sense tells you that there is not only one reason people do not have insurance, especially with the younger people.

Links have been posted by time&space which indicated the numbers were a great deal less. When I clicked on the link, I found out that those figures were over 6 years old - they were from 2003. I don't think there is much argument that our economy has changed greatly since 2003. I don't think there is much disagreement about how much higher the unemployment figures are today compared with 2003.

I may have missed some posts, but I was not aware that anyone was claiming that there was only one reason people were without health insurance. I can't say that I know of anyone who isn't aware that some of the uninsured are young people who simply do not choose to have it.

One of the reasons I like a universal healthcare system is because it brings in the premiums of the young - the ones who are so healthy that they just do not perceive the need to have health insurance. Any risk pool is going to benefit, premium-wise, if the percentage of healthy people is relatively high. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to comprehend that a pool made up of only those in the higher risk categories is going to have a higher calculation per person for the premiums.

[Mimi428]

Again, what the medicare minority didn't learn at the above linked town hall, sink us working folks and there is no fix for medicare.

Hey, let's scrap medicare and let the insurance companies deal with the high risk population.

I'm not being facetious, because this is a serious subject & a grim reality. The Medicare system & the Social Security system benefit when more folks die just before or right around the time they are of the age to start collecting SS retirement & are eligible for Medicare.

When you look at it that way, it just doesn't seem nearly so bad when a 59-year-old laid-off worker loses their insurance, can't afford to go see a doctor & ends up with a fatal heart attack. They may easily have contributed 40 years into Medicare & SS - and never collect a dime of it.

It's kind of like the attitude Dicken's wrote about in A Christmas Carol- where Scrooge believes it is a benefit to society if the surplus population just goes off & dies & quits being a pain in the drain to those who are comfy & well-off.

[Mimi428]

I doubt that. Most people believe over the period of a year as many as 47 million may not have health insurance for a variety of reasons for a short period. imo

Didya ever stop & wonder what the likelihood is that on any given day, with 47 million people uninsured on THAT day, that not a one of them will have a significant health problem?

Kind of boggles the mind just contemplating the odds that none of them will end up in the hospital with an emergency.

[Mimi428]

Neither am I. I'm 53 and my wife is 51. We HAVE lost our benefits. I posted above about it. Nothing funny about this and I can't stand some of the stupidity I see being posted here.

I can't stand it either. I know too many people over 50 years old who are in dire financial straits that none of us would have ever thought possible when we were, say, 25 years old. But that was before employers started deliberately limiting the hours their employees worked, so they wouldn't be eligible for benefits.

And that was before a mature worker was considered nothing but a potential liability - someone who had been there long enough to reasonably be making a higher wage. Someone who expected to stay until retirement. Sheesh, why put up with that? Just ditch them, cut their hours, hire those who are younger because their wages are less that someone with 20 years experience. Then hope they don't stay so you don't have to worry about coughing up any retirement money for them.

[snookums1]

Anymore there is no such thing as affordable health care in this country. At least for people that are unemployed. Or people working low paying jobs without employer health care. I know a lot of people that work their butts off but cannot afford health insurance.

[snookums1]

Do you have a link to that, or is it merely your opinion? I have had two friends who lost everything through bankruptcy and neither of them relied on government handouts nor changed their principles and values as a result of hardship. I have a friend who lost everything in a divorce (including the house he nearly paid off) and has relied on friends to provide shared living space for several years now. He has worked on and off due to the depression resulting from the divorce. He has never taken a handout from the government, nor has he compromised his principles or values as a result of his hardship. My friends have relied on the kindness of family and friends to get back on their feet, not the government.

I think you have an idea in your mind that doesn't square with reality. And I have a son that had to quit his job and go on welfare in order to get the health care his son needed to survive. I also know a couple that had to get a divorce in order for her to go on welfare in order to get the heart pump she needed to survive because his insurance would not pay for it. My grandson is alive today and so is she.

[snookums1]

If they are working low paying jobs, why can they not qualify for existing health care coverage via Medicaid or Schip?

Not everyone that is a low wage earner is eligible for medicaid.

Many groups of people are covered by Medicaid. Even within these groups, though, certain requirements must be met. These may include your age, whether you are pregnant, disabled, blind, or aged; your income and resources (like bank accounts, real property, or other items that can be sold for cash); and whether you are a U.S. citizen or a lawfully admitted immigrant. The rules for counting your income and resources vary from state to state and from group to group. There are special rules for those who live in nursing homes and for disabled children living at home.

Your child may be eligible for coverage if he or she is a U.S. citizen or a lawfully admitted immigrant, even if you are not (however, there is a 5-year limit that applies to lawful permanent residents). Eligibility for children is based on the child's status, not the parent's. Also, if someone else's child lives with you, the child may be eligible even if you are not because your income and resources will not count for the child.

In general, you should apply for Medicaid if your income is limited and you match one of the descriptions of the Eligibility Groups. (Even if you are not sure whether you qualify, if you or someone in your family needs health care, you should apply for Medicaid and have a qualified caseworker in your state evaluate your situation.)

[snookums1]

Depending on the largesse of friends for years and he is also depressed. Sure doesn't seem he's "on his feet." You see nothing wrong with the "picture" you posted? Sounds more like a parasite to me. He is a user that expects others to provide for him IMO. Most people that go through divorces 'get over it' and move on. Apparently he thinks the world should pity him and do for him the rest of his life. I can understand why his wife had enough.

[snookums1]

Schip is for children. Medicaid has severe restrictions, varying by state.

I posted from the medicaid site for the poster's edification. And I thought everyone knew schip is for children. Guess I was wrong.

[snookums1]

He is on his feet to the extent that he has a living arrangement and income. He's not homeless, he can pay his bills and he has friends and family. I don't see anything wrong with the picture. No one is guranteed sunshine and lollipops at birth. Everyone has struggles. What do you see in this picture that is "wrong"? Since he is working, why not get an apartment and do for himself? That is what most grownups do.

[Mimi428]

If they are working low paying jobs, why can they not qualify for existing health care coverage via Medicaid or Schip?

Maybe they are working in a state like Texas, where they would not be eligible for either Medicaid or SCHIP?

You know it would almost be funny to think about how often such bogus statements are made that there really is all sorts of help out there for working people with no insurance, when so many people have found out that there IS NO HELP for them. I guess all they really need is someone to preach to them about how there's not a thing they need other than family & friends to help them out. I have taken my neighbor to an appt with a social worker for the county - & I do believe those people know what is & is not available. I was literally shocked to find out how VERY little is available in this state.

When a long-time friend lost his job & his health insurance - after having a heart attack 2 years prior, I was no longer so blissfully ignorant about what might be available in the way of help for him. I already knew he was SOL. Friends or no friends, not a one of them was a cardiologist, nor did any of them have the means to run diagnostic tests on him, or write out his 5 prescriptions that he takes every day. A trip to the ER has gotten him no more than 2 weeks worth of his meds & an admonishment to make an appt with a cardiologist. Only problem is, the visit to the cardiologist, with all the the tests he runs plus lab work is more than a week's take-home pay. I guess he should just go live in that cardboard box with The Storm & RParty - that oughta teach him some responsibility.

<sarcasm intended>

[Lady_Jean_La]

Maybe they will understand a graphic.

http://georgiainsuranceshop.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/47-million.jpg

:w00t:

We can hope! :thumbsup:

[AlohaRainbow]

iI'd love to see a link to any state government web site that provides SCHIP to age 25.

Indeed, that has nothing to do with the majority of the 50 million uninsured Americans.

JMHO
well, in hawaii, it's not called schip, but quest-ace (an expansion of our med-quest program):
http://www.med-quest.us/

Uninsured adults (age 19 and older) , residing in Hawaii may be eligible for free health care coverage through the new QUEST-ACE (Adult Coverage Expansion) program.

Provided by the Hawaii State Department of Human Services, QUEST-ACE covers outpatient physician visits, inpatient hospital stays, emergency room services, dental treatments, prescription drug costs and mental health care .

This free health insurance is available for single adults with incomes of no more than $1,960 per month or $23,520 per year. For married adults, the family income limits are $2,626 per month or $31,512 per year.

[R~O~S]

No it's not. In our state you can get s-chip up to 25 years of age. It depends on the state.

Up to the 25th birthday they're considered a child by the insurance industry, and can be covered under their parents policy if they have one, as a dependent. Most young people would still be in school until then & if they're not covered under their parents, who's income counts against them when applying for financial aid, they're required to take the school sponsored health insurance.

Do you know of a 50 year old that can be covered under a parents plan? SHIP? TIA

[Mimi428]

I am sorry your friend has no family or friends to help him out, since it appears that even the government has let him down. Have any of you written to the newspapers about this guy...gotten some pity publicity so the pharm company will give him his scripts for free? Monel Williams heads an organization that provides free perscriptions for people in need without the money to pay for medication. Has your friend looked into that? I do understand that there are lots of people out there without compassionate friends or family to assist them and instead rely on the government to do what they won't. It appears that in your friend's case, even the government has let him down. :sad:

Every news organization in the state of Texas is well aware of the problem. He isn't unique by any stretch of the imagination.

The cost of his prescriptions is not an issue - they all have at least one cheap generic available.

It's the appt with the cardiologist that's the killer (not sure whether I intend the pun or not). That group of cardiologists are no fools (I'm sure that's true of most docs) - they are not going to prescribe meds w/o a thorough work-up. That requires ECGs, a slew of lab tests, etc. I don't recall what the two other tests he told me about were right now, but by the time it is said & done, the cost to a patient with no insurance is over $400. I saw the bill from the last time he went, I just don't recall all the specific tests. The office visit alone was $180.

I pick up a box from Angel Food Ministries for him once a month (since he works on Saturdays). It is not even August yet & this part of the state has had temps over 100 degrees for over 40 days now. It has been 105 twice this week already. He can get help ONCE per year with a utility bill. I don't know what his typical electric bill is, but I keep my thermostat at 80 degrees & mine was $180 last month. I imagine his would be fairly similar.

[Mimi428]

well, in hawaii, it's not called schip, but quest-ace (an expansion of our med-quest program):
http://www.med-quest.us/

Uninsured adults (age 19 and older) , residing in Hawaii may be eligible for free health care coverage through the new QUEST-ACE (Adult Coverage Expansion) program.

Provided by the Hawaii State Department of Human Services, QUEST-ACE covers outpatient physician visits, inpatient hospital stays, emergency room services, dental treatments, prescription drug costs and mental health care .

This free health insurance is available for single adults with incomes of no more than $1,960 per month or $23,520 per year. For married adults, the family income limits are $2,626 per month or $31,512 per year.

Sounds like Hawaii is substantially more generous than Texas.

I did notice this part, though...

http://www.med-quest.us/eligibility/EligPrograms_QUEST.html

QUEST Enrollment Cap

An enrollment cap will be in effect when QUEST enrollment exceeds 125,000 individuals. Under the cap, single childless adults cannot be enrolled in QUEST, even if they meet all other requirements. The cap is lifted when enrollment is below 125,000 individuals on the last day of the year.

I have no idea how many people are enrolled in QUEST to begin with. The most recent figures I did with a quick Google search show the overall population of Hawaii at under 1,500,000.

[AlohaRainbow]

Sounds like Hawaii is substantially more generous than Texas.

I did notice this part, though...

http://www.med-quest.us/eligibility/EligPrograms_QUEST.html

QUEST Enrollment Cap

An enrollment cap will be in effect when QUEST enrollment exceeds 125,000 individuals. Under the cap, single childless adults cannot be enrolled in QUEST, even if they meet all other requirements. The cap is lifted when enrollment is below 125,000 individuals on the last day of the year.

I have no idea how many people are enrolled in QUEST to begin with. The most recent figures I did with a quick Google search show the overall population of Hawaii at under 1,500,000.
in the 15 or so years that we've had quest, iirc, i think that enrollment was closed once or twice.
IMO

[emdragon]

well, in hawaii, it's not called schip, but quest-ace (an expansion of our med-quest program):
http://www.med-quest.us/

Uninsured adults (age 19 and older) , residing in Hawaii may be eligible for free health care coverage through the new QUEST-ACE (Adult Coverage Expansion) program.

Provided by the Hawaii State Department of Human Services, QUEST-ACE covers outpatient physician visits, inpatient hospital stays, emergency room services, dental treatments, prescription drug costs and mental health care .

This free health insurance is available for single adults with incomes of no more than $1,960 per month or $23,520 per year. For married adults, the family income limits are $2,626 per month or $31,512 per year.

I have to say that Hawaii has always been one state that provides the best care,education and services for the deaf.. (just a personal observation)

[Lady_Jean_La]

Maybe they will understand a graphic.

http://georgiainsuranceshop.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/47-million.jpg

:w00t:This is priceless! A picture is worth 47 million claims in error. imo

[flareon]

This is priceless! A picture is worth 47 million claims in error. imo

Exactly. They keep throwing around the same exaggerated number as though that proves their point. And then lists questionable sites that all seem to go back to the same source. Anyone can do that to prove a point. It doesn't mean their ideas are any more correct than the other person.

[Lady_Jean_La]

What? :confused: The link says 'blog'.

Breaking It Down: Who’s Uninsured?



The number of the uninsured who aren’t citizens is nearly 10 million on its own, invalidating all the claims of 40+ million “Americans” without health insurance.


http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2007/20070718153509.aspx

[Lady_Jean_La]

http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2007/20070718153509.aspx

Note: Census data, 2005, so doing the math and subtracting those who are not eligible, 37 million circa 2005. So, it's a "stretch" to say 47 million in 2009? imo I do not think so. Select a number between 20-50 million. Immaterial imo as it is too many.
So, if 20 million people don't want health insurance, that is too many for you?
:confused:

[Mimi428]

So, if 20 million people don't want health insurance, that is too many for you?
:confused:

Why only discuss those who you believe don't want insurance?

If 40 million people do not have health insurance & 20 of that 40 mil don't want it - that still leaves 20 million who may very well want it, but for one reason or another don't have it.

Do y'all even realize how utterly mean-spirited it sounds to claim that the people who have no health insurance just don't WANT it? Why is it that y'all don't want to discuss those who DO want it, but can't get it?

Being told that an insurance premium is going to cost 1/3 to 1/2 to 2/3 & up of your entire income - & that any pre-existing condition will not be covered is hardly a reasonable solution.

So what, pray tell, do you think is a reasonable solution or alternative for people who WANT health insurance, but cannot afford it?

To hear some of you tell it, all they need to do is go preach to their friends & families how it is their responsibility to take care of them.

[Lady_Jean_La]

No wonder you are confused. You read things that are not written. Nothing was written that people do not want health insurance. People not wanting health insurance is one of those myths bouncing around in your head. What people are saying is they cannot afford health insurance as the for profits run it.There are people who don't want to pay for health insurance. imo

[Mimi428]

There are people who don't want to pay for health insurance. imo

Any chance you can clarify that? I think there is a lot of different between someone who doesn't want health insurance & therefore surely doesn't want to pay for it vs. someone who does want health insurance & can't afford to spend 1/3 to half their income getting it vs. someone who thinks that whether or not they have health insurance somebody else should pay for it.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Any chance you can clarify that? I think there is a lot of different between someone who doesn't want health insurance & therefore surely doesn't want to pay for it vs. someone who does want health insurance & can't afford to spend 1/3 to half their income getting it vs. someone who thinks that whether or not they have health insurance somebody else should pay for it.

Of course.

[Susan43]

http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2007/20070718153509.aspx

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Business_%26_Media_Institute

The article you posted is from "free marketers" and I guess that's just fine with you. However it's not fine with me or a heck of a lot of people. The status quo of our healthcare business is bankrupting people. You might not want to believe it, but for millions of people it's a sad fact of life.

[Susan43]

Any chance you can clarify that? I think there is a lot of different between someone who doesn't want health insurance & therefore surely doesn't want to pay for it vs. someone who does want health insurance & can't afford to spend 1/3 to half their income getting it vs. someone who thinks that whether or not they have health insurance somebody else should pay for it.

I ran across this site last night that has some stories from people that would love to have affordable insurance.

http://www.guaranteedhealthcare.org/stories

[Susan43]

Another post to scare people.

Some do it so well.

imo

:confused: One website describing another website is scary? :lol::lol:

[Lady_Jean_La]

Another post to scare people.

Some do it so well.

imo

The polls show many people are scared by President Obama's plan which he doesn't seem to be able to explain. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

:laugh: remind me to send PresBo an e-mail asking he "dumb it down" for those unable to understand the obvious.Maybe after the people in Congress read it they can explain it. imo

[flareon]

The polls show many people are scared by President Obama's plan which he doesn't seem to be able to explain. imo

I think there are some are scared, but many just know that the Democrats have proven that they don't know how to pass a purely beneficial bill without pandering to certain segments.

There are good ideas on both sides and with good governing a good plan could be passed. Unfortunately that is not what we are going to get.

[Jumbo1]

There are people who don't want to pay for health insurance. imo

This is sounding so familiar, so Reaganesque....people choose to homeless to avoid paying on a mortgage....people eat at soup kitchens to avoid buying groceries....people avoid buying health insurance because they're healthy & want to save their money....He was just so in touch with the poor that he knew these things even though they were disavowed by the people most affected.

[Mimi428]

The polls show many people are scared by President Obama's plan which he doesn't seem to be able to explain. imo

Scared by President Obama's plan?

How do you figure that, when what they profess to be afraid of are outrageous fabrications, spoonfed to them from sources that apparently have a bona fide agenda for spreading outright lies? I think the 'forced to have a discussion with the government about your own euthanasia' drivel just about took the cake. Why anyone would believe ANYTHING from a source that promoted that garbage is pretty much more than I can figure out.

Don't understand President Obama's plan, but you really, really want to? I'd be more convinced that such a goal was true the day I see the same people hollaring about it prove that they have even the most rudimentary understanding of Medicare - a plan that has been in existence for a very long time & one that is the most likely to be familiar to everyone (unless they have never had a parent or loved on actually enrolled in Medicare). I read a post earlier from someone claiming that Medicare Part D was not understandable, yet that plan is actually pretty easy to comprehend if you take the time to try & do it.

Pick up your own health insurance policy & read it - how well do you understand that? How does it cover speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy? How does it cover pregnancy by a dependent who is not a spouse? Under what circumstances would a PET scan PLUS a Gallium scan be covered? How often is a bone density scan covered? How does it determine when transportation via ambulance is covered? What about if you fracture some bones after you fall off a ladder while cleaning the gutters on your roof -is your personal or group health insurance liable or your homeowner's policy?

[Lady_Jean_La]

Scared by President Obama's plan?

How do you figure that, when what they profess to be afraid of are outrageous fabrications, spoonfed to them from sources that apparently have a bona fide agenda for spreading outright lies? I think the 'forced to have a discussion with the government about your own euthanasia' drivel just about took the cake. Why anyone would believe ANYTHING from a source that promoted that garbage is pretty much more than I can figure out.

Don't understand President Obama's plan, but you really, really want to? I'd be more convinced that such a goal was true the day I see the same people hollaring about it prove that they have even the most rudimentary understanding of Medicare - a plan that has been in existence for a very long time & one that is the most likely to be familiar to everyone (unless they have never had a parent or loved on actually enrolled in Medicare). I read a post earlier from someone claiming that Medicare Part D was not understandable, yet that plan is actually pretty easy to comprehend if you take the time to try & do it.

Pick up your own health insurance policy & read it - how well do you understand that? How does it cover speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy? How does it cover pregnancy by a dependent who is not a spouse? Under what circumstances would a PET scan PLUS a Gallium scan be covered? How often is a bone density scan covered? How does it determine when transportation via ambulance is covered? What about if you fracture some bones after you fall off a ladder while cleaning the gutters on your roof -is your personal or group health insurance liable or your homeowner's policy?

Support Slips for Obama's Health Plan, With Recess on Horizon

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/30/support-slips-obamas-health-plan/

According to the poll, 42 percent of respondents said it's a bad idea while 36 percent said it's a good idea. The split is 47 percent to 37 percent against the plan among those with private insurance.

[Susan43]

Scared by President Obama's plan?

How do you figure that, when what they profess to be afraid of are outrageous fabrications, spoonfed to them from sources that apparently have a bona fide agenda for spreading outright lies? I think the 'forced to have a discussion with the government about your own euthanasia' drivel just about took the cake. Why anyone would believe ANYTHING from a source that promoted that garbage is pretty much more than I can figure out.

Don't understand President Obama's plan, but you really, really want to? I'd be more convinced that such a goal was true the day I see the same people hollaring about it prove that they have even the most rudimentary understanding of Medicare - a plan that has been in existence for a very long time & one that is the most likely to be familiar to everyone (unless they have never had a parent or loved on actually enrolled in Medicare). I read a post earlier from someone claiming that Medicare Part D was not understandable, yet that plan is actually pretty easy to comprehend if you take the time to try & do it.

Pick up your own health insurance policy & read it - how well do you understand that? How does it cover speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical therapy? How does it cover pregnancy by a dependent who is not a spouse? Under what circumstances would a PET scan PLUS a Gallium scan be covered? How often is a bone density scan covered? How does it determine when transportation via ambulance is covered? What about if you fracture some bones after you fall off a ladder while cleaning the gutters on your roof -is your personal or group health insurance liable or your homeowner's policy?

This is what I've been saying all along. Most people have no idea what is actually in their insurance policy. And sadly, they find out the hard way if they get in an accident or come down with a serious disease. And most policies have a cap on them so if you go over that amount they just stop paying.

Why anyone would want to keep the status quo really baffles me. But I ran across this yesterday and got a big laugh about it.

Republicans Reveal Their Hypocrisy On Health Care, Refuse To Support Bill To Kill Government-Run Medicare

For months, Republicans have been trying to scare Americans away from supporting a public option in health care reform, claiming that “government-run” medicine is akin to socialism and would be disastrous. But the government already runs several successful, well-loved health care programs — most notably, Medicare.

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/31/weiner-medicare/

[Lady_Jean_La]

Is health bill too complex to grasp?

http://dailynews.muzi.com/news/ll/english/10092408.shtml

Olympia Snowe, it seems safe to assume, is following the health care debate a bit more closely than the average American.

So it is saying something that the Maine senator - a key figure in health care negotiations - admits she is stumped by the task of crafting a simple explanation for legislation of mind-numbing complexity.

[Fairlady]

Virginia Foxx Warns That Health Care Reform Will Involve Widespread Elder Murder


The contest to be the member of Congress saying the dumbest possible things about health care has just gotten ratcheted up about a thousand more notches, thanks to North Carolina Representative Virginia Foxx. Foxx, if you recall, was the congressional luminary who declared the story of Matthew Shepard's murder a "hoax," right in front of Shepard's mother. She's a delight for the senses, especially the stupid ones!



If she wasn't so despicable, she's be laughable... jmo


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/28/virginia-foxx-warns-that_n_246434.html

Not Telling .... Every time I see her, I think to myself .... "Can you imagine LIVING with this woman"??:wink:

[Lady_Jean_La]

Incoherent? :confused: I think someone may be having trouble understanding it, but it's not Obama. imo.I think a great many people are having trouble understanding it, especially the ones that read it. imo

[flareon]

I think a great many people are having trouble understanding it, especially the ones that read it. imo

You're exactly right. Each time Obama or one of the members of Congress are asked about a specific item, they act like they have never heard of it and can't explain it.

They just keep coming up with the same tired lines.

[flareon]

Just when you start to think "Heck, if Robert Gibbs can understand it then ANYBODY can understand it" you get jolted back to reality by the realization that Robert Gibbs doesn't understand it.

:smile:

That is the point with them. If it isn't scrolling across a teleprompter, there doesn't seem to be any "knowledge" of any of the policies.

[Lady_Jean_La]

You're exactly right. Each time Obama or one of the members of Congress are asked about a specific item, they act like they have never heard of it and can't explain it.

They just keep coming up with the same tired lines.Tired but recalibrated lines.

:thumbsup:

[cantstandnuts]

Either way, she's right. There isn't an American alive who would be denied care, regardless of their circumstances or whether or not they are insured. The signs posted in every hospital in the country attest to that. The dooms day criers would have us believe otherwise - that there are people dying due to lack of health care - but that would be the nations with socialized health care that they are talking about. You know - the system where you have to get in line to see the specialist or have a certain test after the government approves it as necessary - and then die while waiting.

well, except that if you don't have health insurance, you're going to be patched up at those hospitals, given the barest care and then kicked to the curb...sometimes, not even cured of what ails you, but rather just stable enough that they can release you. Fake care, really.

[Brentwood]

We need single payer, imo. This has been going on for decades and who has been winning.....the corrupt greedy folks at the expense of the people. Makes me very angry.

[Lady_Jean_La]

We need single payer, imo. This has been going on for decades and who has been winning.....the corrupt greedy folks at the expense of the people. Makes me very angry.

Follow the money.

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.php?cycle=2010&ind=F09

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?cycle=2010&ind=F09

[R~O~S]

Whaaa?? You mean you can't get reconstructive, post-op cancer surgery or chemo or any of the necessary drugs and therapy at those bare-bones hospitals or free clinics or ER's that send people out in cabs in the middle of the night? I've heard of that ....... forget what it's called, but it's like - the homeless are given free cab fare to somewhere or other. It's really all their fault though. If they were stupid enough to put on a job application years ago they suffered from depression after a breakup, or a death in the family they have a pre-existing condition, and why on earth should they be insured for something as expensive for the millionaire execs like curing their cancer, or whatever catastrophic illness they might have? :unsure: Ingrates.

This one drives me crazy, the story is on the family abuse forum, but it's the end of the story that applies here:

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou090801_nlc_mother-mutilated-infant-trial.9a935a49.html

Authorities found Holden lying on a queen-size bed, the lower half of his tiny body covered in blood after his genitals had been severed.

(skip)

It’s uncertain if he will have surgery to reconstruct his genitals because the procedure could cost millions of dollars and Medicaid won’t pay for it because it is considered cosmetic, Olguin said.


Horrifically disfigured by his own mother at five weeks old, Holden is now two. We have the "best medical care" in the world, but we'd rather a baby grow to a man with all this kind of injury will do to his quality of life and his emotional well being, but reconstructive surgery that could change all that, is "cosmetic", therefore elective.

Nothing like re-victimizing the victim. I'm sure this is somehow Holden's fault though, therefore he doesn't deserve care.

[airportwoman]

This one drives me crazy, the story is on the family abuse forum, but it's the end of the story that applies here:

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou090801_nlc_mother-mutilated-infant-trial.9a935a49.html




Horrifically disfigured by his own mother at five weeks old, Holden is now two. We have the "best medical care" in the world, but we'd rather a baby grow to a man with all this kind of injury will do to his quality of life and his emotional well being, but reconstructive surgery that could change all that, is "cosmetic", therefore elective.

Nothing like re-victimizing the victim. I'm sure this is somehow Holden's fault though, therefore he doesn't deserve care.

Why would someone leave a 5-week-old baby on a bed without a diaper? IMHO, it would be VERY easy to tell the difference between a dog bite and a knife wound!

Also, why am I not surprised this happened in Texas?

I can't believe that surgery like this would cost millions of dollars. Or that nobody has thought of sending him to a Shriners facility, which does reconstructive surgery on children at no cost to the family or insurance. :wub:

[R~O~S]

Why would someone leave a 5-week-old baby on a bed without a diaper? IMHO, it would be VERY easy to tell the difference between a dog bite and a knife wound!

Also, why am I not surprised this happened in Texas?

I can't believe that surgery like this would cost millions of dollars. Or that nobody has thought of sending him to a Shriners facility, which does reconstructive surgery on children at no cost to the family or insurance. :wub:

Well Lady, since you thought of it, and I'm sure nobody else has explored every possible option for this child in the last 2 years, perhaps you should call and find out what the criteria is for treatment.

You know, wait time and all that. I'm sure they're ready to swing open that door right this very minute because they have an abundance of resources and they can get this done right away. I'm sure there's no waiting line of children with life threatening conditions that would get in the way.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Well Lady, since you thought of it, and I'm sure nobody else has explored every possible option for this child in the last 2 years, perhaps you should call and find out what the criteria is for treatment.

You know, wait time and all that. I'm sure they're ready to swing open that door right this very minute because they have an abundance of resources and they can get this done right away. I'm sure there's no waiting line of children with life threatening conditions that would get in the way.

Would President Obama's plan solve this problem? :confused:

[R~O~S]

Would President Obama's plan solve this problem? :confused:

Since Holden obviously did not have coverage and therefore is on medicaid, it would depend on the coverage taken after the plan is in place.

Obama's plan calls for no pre-existing condition limits, so yes reconstructive surgery is covered under most current plans. Without the pre-existing conditions clause, Holden is SOL.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Since Holden obviously did not have coverage and therefore is on medicaid, it would depend on the coverage taken after the plan is in place.

Obama's plan calls for no pre-existing condition limits, so yes reconstructive surgery is covered under most current plans. Without the pre-existing conditions clause, Holden is SOL.

I take that as a no. imo

[airportwoman]

Well Lady, since you thought of it, and I'm sure nobody else has explored every possible option for this child in the last 2 years, perhaps you should call and find out what the criteria is for treatment.

You know, wait time and all that. I'm sure they're ready to swing open that door right this very minute because they have an abundance of resources and they can get this done right away. I'm sure there's no waiting line of children with life threatening conditions that would get in the way.

Already been done. :rolleyes:

[R~O~S]

I take that as a no. imo

Only you could find a no in that answer.

Without the pre-existing condition clause Obama insists on, it wouldn't matter a twit what kind of coverage Holden gets in the future, the injury is a pre-existing condition.

With the pre-existing condition clause Obama insists on, it would depend on the plan he gets & most cover reconstruction surgery.

Is that too complicated for you to understand? Or are you of the opinion the people caring for Holden aren't aware this is a pre-existing condition and therefore would take coverage that doesn't cover reconstructive surgery?

[R~O~S]

Oh nooo. How awful for that little boy. Just terrible - cosmetic??? ..... maybe the publicity will find some kind surgeon who will help him. I sure hope so.

Yes, but they've told us so many times Rhiannon, the US has the "best health care in the world". Where are these people who know every medical need is being met? I'm sure they know just where to find that help for Holden, aren't you?

They're so quick to tell us that underprivileged kids have the life of Riley what with the medicaid and food stamps and all that rot.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Incoherent? :confused: I think someone may be having trouble understanding it, but it's not Obama. imo.
Senator Kennedy is having trouble explaining it too. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

As the Democrats leave Washington on their August holiday, many are finding that there have no places to hide from people in their districts who are livid over the Stimulus program, Cap and Trade and what they are trying to do to health care in America.


http://www.examiner.com/x-2547-Watchdog-Politics-Examiner~y2009m8d1-Democrats-have-no-place-to-hide-from-angry-public

The more the Democrats ignore that the majority of Americans are not in favor of what has been done to the country during the six months that Obama has been in office with Democrats controlling both the House and the Senate, the more frustrated that public has become.

[Lady_Jean_La]

:glare: Oh really? And, of course you are aware that Sen Kennedy is battling a brain tumor, yet continues to work for our health care.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=7005595&page=1

Yes. He has been working on the plan for about 15 years. imo

[cantstandnuts]

Whaaa?? You mean you can't get reconstructive, post-op cancer surgery or chemo or any of the necessary drugs and therapy at those bare-bones hospitals or free clinics or ER's that send people out in cabs in the middle of the night? I've heard of that ....... forget what it's called, but it's like - the homeless are given free cab fare to somewhere or other. It's really all their fault though. If they were stupid enough to put on a job application years ago they suffered from depression after a breakup, or a death in the family they have a pre-existing condition, and why on earth should they be insured for something as expensive for the millionaire execs like curing their cancer, or whatever catastrophic illness they might have? :unsure: Ingrates.

Yep, they put them in cabs in the middle of the night, because they need the beds for the "paying customers" ie those with health insurance.

Fake Care. Not denied, but not actually helped, either.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Yes, I've just read the SICKO interview (tried so darn hard to debunk by those like CIGNA because it was so on the spot and scared them to death, according to Potter, head of corporate communications) where they were turned away in the middle of the night and dropped off back at skid row. For one of the already overburdened shelters to give 'medical care'.

http://www.democracynow.org/2007/6/14/sicko_interviewees_tell_harrowing_first_hand

Amy Goodman Interview:

...."ANDY BALES: Unlike some unfortunate souls who are dumped or dropped off on Skid Row, I worked my whole life to end up on Skid Row, and I finally made it. I want to make sure no human being is left on the streets of Skid Row. Three years ago, my predecessors found that a woman had been dropped off by a hospital. She walked in with an IV in her arm, sat down in our guest area and died 10 minutes later from pneumonia. We set up what is now called a hospital dump can out in front of the building. And in the fall of 2005, we had a gentleman show up in a gurney, having seizures and the hospital attempted to drop him off, but the captain of the police force, Andy Smith, happened to be at our place in a meeting, he ran down, intervened, made the man—the ambulance driver–put him back in the ambulance and sent him back to the hospital. Shortly after that, in December, an undocumented day laborer showed up covered in blood. He’d just been released from a hospital in Arcadia, brought all the way to downtown Skid Row, walked in, we took him back to our guest area and shortly thereafter, he became so ill from the beating he had taken right before he went to the hospital, that we had to call the medics and haul him back to the hospital. He stayed there for several days....."

These are people's mothers, brothers, daughters, sons, father, grandfathers ....... no one know what life has thrown at them, if they've worked and lost their jobs, if they have medical problems that prevent them from working, if they've come home from Iraq with psychological problems, etc.

Another wonderful example of insurance managed 'health-care':

"DAWNELLE KEYES: On May 6, 1993 my 18-month-old daughter Michelle became very ill. She was vomiting, had diarrhea and was having trouble breathing and a very high temperature. I called an ambulance, which took her to the nearest emergency room at Martin Luther King Jr. Medical Center in Los Angeles. The doctors believed she probably had a bacterial infection, which could be treated with antibiotics. But he didn’t conduct a simple blood culture or treat her with antibiotics because our health plan, Kaiser, told him not to. You see, Martin Luther King hospital was not a Kaiser facility. Kaiser said the simple test and treatment had to be done in a Kaiser hospital. But Michelle became sicker and sicker. She became lethargic and unresponsive. I pleaded to them. I pleaded for her treatment. And no one would give her antibiotics. Over two hours later Michelle had a seizure. Only an hour after that Michelle was transferred by ambulance to Kaiser. Within 15 minutes of arriving, she died."

I imagine you're right, the beds are reserved for those the insurance co's can't exclude no matter how hard they try. jmo.


No offense intended, but, this is very sick. imo

What would be the procedure with President Obama's plan? Would the government decide instead of Kaiser?

[Lady_Jean_La]

You've been on here a long time, supplying hundreds of links of his plan. What would the procedure be? I haven't read it. Maybe you could fill me in. I was just replying to a post to me regarding shipping off pts. in the middle of the night back to skid-row because they weren't the covered for all, or at times, any (apparently) care.

What would Obama's procedure be? Surely you've read some of your links?

I think it would be the same result. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Well then, hopefully someone who's read all of his proposals will be able to explain it. Just common sense imo that including millions more Americans and providing less incentive for insurance companies to turn them out like trash would do a lot to stop it, jmo. It should be made illegal. Imo, people dying from this type of practice is criminal.If it is criminal it should be reported to LE. But who would you prosecute?

:confused: