Gates vs. Crowley and Obama comments -- #1

[dinojen]

A white police sergeant who arrested renowned black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. said Thursday he's disappointed President Barack Obama said officers acted "stupidly" without knowing all the facts.

Sgt. James Crowley responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused and accused the officer of racism.

Gates was charged with disorderly conduct. The charge was dropped Tuesday, and Gates has since demanded an apology from Crowley.

Obama was asked about the arrest of Gates, who is his friend, at the end of a nationally televised news conference on health care Wednesday night.

"I think it's fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry," Obama said. "Number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home. And number three — what I think we know separate and apart from this incident — is that there is a long history in this country of African-Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement disproportionately, and that's just a fact."



First this is just my opinion.. I think last nights news conference was about HealthCare and I don't think the President should of addressed the situation the way he did.. jmho.

I also think Gates could of handled himself totally different. He made it a racial issue.. all he had to do was say Officer this is my home, here's my ID and there must be some mistake.. with NO ATTITUDE.. the officer then would of more than likely said thank you sir.. sorry for the intrusion.. but from the way it sounds.. Gates copped a attitude..from the get go.. how was the officer suppose to know who the guy was..

But what I think Obama's remarks were totally out of line and I agree with Crowley, he doesn't owe anyone an apology, he was doing his job.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20090720/US.Harvard.Scholar.Disorderly/

[gemsbmw]

Oh I have sent my opinion to the White House. This jerk should have showed his ID right away instead of acting like a jerk.

No police apology is needed and Obama should apologize to the police dept.

JMO

[snookums1]

At the press conference Obama made the comment that the Cambridge police acted stupidly also claimed he didn't know all the facts. No question in my mind after reading accounts from both sides, if there was any racism it came from the professor and for Obama to say the police acted stupidly without knowing the facts of the issue then his motive must be to bolster his buddy's race card while also shifting the focus from his dismal performance at his job.

Anyone think this question from the Chi-town reporter was planted besides me?

link to obama's comments (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0709/Obama_Cambridge_police_acted_stupidly.html) Tell you what Jon, if you ever get locked out of your own home by mistake and are arrested for attempting to break into your own house, don't complain about it. Just say, "The police were within their rights arresting me for being on my own property".

[SeeksJustice]

At the press conference Obama made the comment that the Cambridge police acted stupidly also claimed he didn't know all the facts. No question in my mind after reading accounts from both sides, if there was any racism it came from the professor and for Obama to say the police acted stupidly without knowing the facts of the issue then his motive must be to bolster his buddy's race card while also shifting the focus from his dismal performance at his job.

Anyone think this question from the Chi-town reporter was planted besides me?

link to obama's comments (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0709/Obama_Cambridge_police_acted_stupidly.html)

I think that you are off-base with this. What would he gain by "planting" the reporter? Are you suggesting that there is no race profiling at all in the US....none at all?

Perhaps if you would have actually listened to him make the comments, he also stated that we have gone very far in this country and he is a testament to that.

[dinojen]

Posted on this topic on the Media board...

Gates does not deserve an apology in my opinion and it should not of been addressed last night while the topic was the country's health care.

Gates provoked the situation with his response to the officer.. automatically making it a racial issue. All he would of had to say is officer.. this is my home, show him his identification and the situation would of been over.. but no... he is the one that turned it into what it was.

How was Crowley suppose to know that Gates was the owner of the home, all he had to do was show proof.. situation would of been all done and over with..

A white police sergeant who arrested renowned black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. said Thursday he's disappointed President Barack Obama said officers acted "stupidly" without knowing all the facts.

Sgt. James Crowley responded to Gates' home near Harvard University last week to investigate a report of a burglary and demanded Gates show him identification. Police say Gates at first refused and accused the officer of racism.

Why refuse.. why not say, certainly officer.. here you go.. this is MY HOME.. no he plays the race card... And then Obama makes it an even bigger issue and tosses in Latino's too...:rolleyes:

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20090720/US.Harvard.Scholar.Disorderly/


All JMHO.. would better off if he .. he being the President didn't comment...

[snookums1]

He wasn't arrested for "breaking into his own home" he was arrested for disorderly conduct when he refused to provide ID to the cop and instead decided to start yelling, "This is what happens to Black men in America."


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

:rolleyes:


I feel pretty sure if someone had been apprehended breaking into Gates' home he would have been happy the cops investigated the complaint.

IMOHaving worked for 15 years in a police department, I can assure you, racial profiling is alive and well in this country.

[Details]

Everyone gets to make their mistakes - this is one of Obama's - he should read up on the incident before picking his side. Anyone, white, black, welfare mom or Harvard professor, found breaking into a house, will indeed be asked for their ID.

The cop was good - he didn't jump to any conclusions, didn't handcuff the guy on the assumption he was the burglar, etc., just asked for his ID. Gates was the one jumping to conclusions, making it a race matter (IMO, solely because it was a white cop - that's a racist act, no matter how much history he has with racist cops, to judge all of them by their color is racist.)

I've seen plenty of people arrested at their own homes for disorderly conduct - of all colors. My own husband once was, at his own home - during some divorce battles. No crime other than disorderly conduct - and he is white (this was something over a decade ago).

[flareon]

I so agree with both of you.

Police officers never know what they are walking into. It would have been a simple matter of showing ID and the incident would have been over. Instead Gates' actions turned it into something that could have blown up into so much more. Luckily the police officer was professional and it didn't.

[Details]

Having worked for 15 years in a police department, I can assure you, racial profiling is alive and well in this country.Yes. But that doesn't mean every time a cop arrests a black man, that racial profiling is active. To assume so IS racial profiling.

[juliekan]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

Why did this guy only have his Harvard U ID on him? Who travels with only that? I think if he had calmly shown a drivers license or state ID card or a passport, something, none of this would have happened. The officer even called the Harvard U police so this matter could be resolved.

I know the cops would have cuffed me if I had been yelling and making racists remarks.

And no, Obama, he did not show proof that it was his residence, only his Harvard ID. :rolleyes: Get your facts straight before you run around yelling Racism.

[dinojen]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

Why did this guy only have his Harvard U ID on him? Who travels with only that? I think if he had calmly shown a drivers license or state ID card or a passport, something, none of this would have happened. The officer even called the Harvard U police so this matter could be resolved.

I know the cops would have cuffed me if I had been yelling and making racists remarks.

And no, Obama, he did not show proof that it was his residence, only his Harvard ID. :rolleyes: Get your facts straight before you run around yelling Racism.

Thank you...:wink:

[flareon]

He wasn't arrested for "breaking into his own home" he was arrested for disorderly conduct when he refused to provide ID to the cop and instead decided to start yelling, "This is what happens to Black men in America."


http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

:rolleyes:


I feel pretty sure if someone had been apprehended breaking into Gates' home he would have been happy the cops investigated the complaint.

IMO

Absolutely. The police officer had received a call and had no idea what he was walking into. All Gates had to do was show his ID and the incident would have been over.

[Tracian]

My car alarm went off, because I locked my keys in the car, and had my son climb down through the sun roof to get them for me. An officer heard the alarm, saw a 14 year old climbing into the car and stopped, asked what was going on, I told him, he ran my plates, and asked to see my ID.

When he left, I thanked him, because I was happy that he didn't just take my word for it.

Just like I am happy when I use my card at a store, the cashier asks to see my ID to verify who I am.

Not everything is racism, and from what I am reading here, this had nothing to do with racism, just arrogance on the part of the Professor.

[Details]

...
First this is just my opinion.. I think last nights news conference was about HealthCare and I don't think the President should of addressed the situation the way he did.. jmho.

I also think Gates could of handled himself totally different. He made it a racial issue.. all he had to do was say Officer this is my home, here's my ID and there must be some mistake.. with NO ATTITUDE.. the officer then would of more than likely said thank you sir.. sorry for the intrusion.. but from the way it sounds.. Gates copped a attitude..from the get go.. how was the officer suppose to know who the guy was..

But what I think Obama's remarks were totally out of line and I agree with Crowley, he doesn't owe anyone an apology, he was doing his job.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20090720/US.Harvard.Scholar.Disorderly/If the officer was racist - or even just a jerk - he could have gone in there and cuffed Gates right away, not waiting to ask for ID, as a presumed burglar. He asked for ID - didn't do a thing out of line. Gates was out of line to resist the request, and to presume the officer racist just based on his skin color.

I've written Obama too - a good idea - saying he needs to get the facts, and then look to make a statement based on the facts. A history of prejudiced white cops doesn't make this one prejudiced, any more than a history of women being housewives makes me a housewife, a history of black people being basketball players makes Gates a basketball player.

[juliekan]

I wonder how America's policemen feel about the President assuming Racism on their part before he even gets all the facts? hmmmm...

[TBIBeg]

Tell you what Jon, if you ever get locked out of your own home by mistake and are arrested for attempting to break into your own house, don't complain about it. Just say, "The police were within their rights arresting me for being on my own property".

The neighbors called the police to report a break in! Did it also say that he did indeed have to force the front door open because his key wasn't working.

The cops weren't cruising the neighborhood looking for someone to harrass.

IMO, BO has more important things to be doing than commenting on a situation he self admittedly didn't have the facts on.

C'mon.

[juliekan]

According to the police report I read, he DID show both IDs, his Harvard one, and his official one. The Harvard one was needed because this was a Harvard house - so that ID was needed to prove ownership. So that fact was correct.

But he wasn't arrested for breaking into his own house, nor for his delay in showing his IDs. Disorderly conduct - witnessed by many people there, including other cops who are black and Hispanic.

I'm glad the cop is holding the line and won't apologize. They shouldn't have dropped charges so fast - it reinforces the idea that anything between a white cop and a black man can be called racist.

at the smoking gun site, it has copies of the actual police reports. It is reported by the officer that Gates only gave them his Harvard University ID.

the man just was home from traveling overseas....why not just whip out the ol' passport?

[Details]

at the smoking gun site, it has copies of the actual police reports. It is reported by the officer that Gates only gave them his Harvard University ID.

the man just was home from traveling overseas....why not just whip out the ol' passport?Weird - I thought I saw it saying he presented both. Whatever he presented seemed to be enough for the officer - he wasn't looking for more (by the police report).

[Brat2002]

Tell you what Jon, if you ever get locked out of your own home by mistake and are arrested for attempting to break into your own house, don't complain about it. Just say, "The police were within their rights arresting me for being on my own property".

Something like that happened to me once and also happened to a neighbor.

I was living in base housing in Fort Dix, NJ, and was cleaning my house for inspection. We already had the furniture moved out and I ended up staying till 2:30 in the morning finishing the floors. I had a radio and a little TV, along with boxes of cleaning supplies and in the wee hours of the morning was loading the items back in my truck to head back to the hotel. A cop happened by as I was walking to my truck carrying the TV and of course, he stopped to check it out. I immediately saw the humor in it, knowing exactly how it looked. He shined his flashlight on me and told me to hold it right there. I smiled and said something like "Wow, this must look bad". I presented a house key as I explained I was moving and preparing for the house inspection, which is mandatory for base housing, and of course he wanted to take a look. He saw the inside of the house and I asked if a burglar had ever done such a good job of cleaning a place out. He just laughed and said I should have no trouble passing inspection. I wonder if he would have been so nice if I instead acted indignant and gave him a hard time. I doubt it. Cooperation and politeness are everything when you find yourself in such a situation. They don't know you and need to check your story. I was carrying a TV from my own house. If I had been on vacation and a real burglar had been doing that, I sure would want that cop to check it out and not readily accept whatever explanation was offered.

A neighbor of mine once forgot her key one night and didn't want to wake her husband up, so was attempting to climb through a window in the middle of the night. Another neighbor called the police, thinking the worst. Once police arrived, they put my neighbor in the back seat of the squad car because she was drunk, beligerent and instead of answering their questions, was telling them off in colorful language. It took them a while and a lot of knocking on the door to wake her husband, who must have been a sound sleeper. He explained she belonged there and I believe they let her go, but could have arrested her for fighting with them and resisting being restrained till they could figure things out.

It's just better to be polite and to completely cooperate. No one knows what happened in this story, and there seems to be a number of different versions. The thing is, when the police get a report, they have to respond. They can't simply take someone word and are obligated to check the story out. I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't be calm and simply answer questions and realize that the matter will be figured out soon enough. A neighbor said the guy was beligerent and that is just uncalled for and makes it more difficult for police to get to the truth.

I'll wait till I hear the whole story before commenting further.

[Barbara2]

If Gates wants to be angry with someone it should be the neighbor. She's the one that called the police and reported a crime in progress. What do you suppose the officer expected to find when he got there??

[PoppySeeds]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

Why did this guy only have his Harvard U ID on him? Who travels with only that? I think if he had calmly shown a drivers license or state ID card or a passport, something, none of this would have happened. The officer even called the Harvard U police so this matter could be resolved.

I know the cops would have cuffed me if I had been yelling and making racists remarks.

And no, Obama, he did not show proof that it was his residence, only his Harvard ID. :rolleyes: Get your facts straight before you run around yelling Racism.


The reports I read stated he was just returning from a trip to China. Where was his passport? Did he get all the way to China with just the Harvard ID? Racists come in all colors, this professor seems to be one.

[TBIBeg]

If Gates wants to be angry with someone it should be the neighbor. She's the one that called the police and reported a crime in progress. What do you suppose the officer expected to find when he got there??

If I saw someone using a crow bar on my neighbors door I would call the police.

Well, maybe not now.

[Barbara2]

If I saw someone using a crow bar on my neighbors door I would call the police.

Well, maybe not now.

I just meant that you would think the neighbor would have recognized him. I wouldn't call the police if I saw my neighbor using a crowbar on his own house.

[dinojen]

I was wondering how Gibb's was going to handle this today... wonder if he giggled at all like he usually does...

<Snippet>

Spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters that Obama felt that when it was clear that Harvard scholar Louis Gates Jr. was not a burglary suspect last week, "at that point, cooler heads on all sides should have prevailed."



Cooler heads on all sides... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... It appears the only one that was a hot head and making accusatory remarks was Obama's buddy Gates.. IMO.. Just be honest Gibb's and say Obama shouldn't even of commented on it last night ..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32092715/ns/us_news-race_and_ethnicity/

Obama answered a question about the Gates incident at his Wednesday news conference, although he noted he did not know all the details.Gibbs said the president did not regret his Wednesday remarks, but wanted to clarify that he was not calling the arresting officer stupid.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j2HJhrkrvaouXNtncRaQTLauq9TAD99K9Q001
Gibbs said Obama has not spoken with Gates since the incident.

[Details]

I just meant that you would think the neighbor would have recognized him. I wouldn't call the police if I saw my neighbor using a crowbar on his own house.I heard one report stating the neighbor in this case was actually someone staying at the neighbor's house as a guest, not someone normally there.

Although - in a nice neighborhood, there's often enough space between the homes, they may not have been able to clearly see the man's face, to know who it was. Or they could be like me - I cannot recognize faces. There are maybe 30 faces in the world I would recognize - most of them close family - even some of those I might get wrong. I found out recently - it's actually a diagnosed disorder that is not that uncommon. I would not be able to identify ANY of my neighbors, past or present, with any degree of certainty - no matter what their race.

With other breakins in the neighborhood, it makes sense to call the police.

Had Gates acted normally, presented his ID and not thrown a fit over being questioned - it would have been over in mere minutes.

I think I saw one of those once. Two cop cars pulled up to a neighbor's house. They rang the bell - no answer. Then I saw them go over the fence to the back yard. A few minutes later, they, and a woman, walk out the front door, no problems, obviously they had some report that indicated they needed to find out what was going on at that house, the person there answered them, end of story. She wasn't ranting and raving at them, no disturbance, no disorderly conduct, and it was all done.

[TBIBeg]

I heard one report stating the neighbor in this case was actually someone staying at the neighbor's house as a guest, not someone normally there. Although - in a nice neighborhood, there's often enough space between the homes, they may not have been able to clearly see the man's face, to know who it was. Or they could be like me - I cannot recognize faces. There are maybe 30 faces in the world I would recognize - most of them close family - even some of those I might get wrong. I found out recently - it's actually a diagnosed disorder that is not that uncommon. I would not be able to identify ANY of my neighbors, past or present, with any degree of certainty - no matter what their race.

With other breakins in the neighborhood, it makes sense to call the police.

Had Gates acted normally, presented his ID and not thrown a fit over being questioned - it would have been over in mere minutes.

If I lived in his neighborhood, he11 would freeze over before I was concerned about anything happening at that residence again. I could watch a gang clean out the place and I wouldn't call LE.

JMO

[dinojen]

Like many said prior to this post all the Gates had to do was speak in a calm tone.. knock off the racist rhetoric.. and show proof of who he was.. and all of this could of been avoided...

The police report is quite interesting but I'm not surprised that some are standing behind Gates behavior..:rolleyes:

<snippet>

A police report of the incident written by Officer Carlos Figueroa, who responded to the call with Crowley, says Crowley was already in the house when he walked in. The report says Crowley had asked Gates for some identification and Gates shouted that he would not give any information and called the sergeant a racist.

According to the report, Gates then yelled, "This is what happens to black men in America." When Crowley tried to calm him down, Gates shouted, "You don't know who you're messing with."

The report continues that the shouting went on after Gates and the officers walked out onto the front porch. When Gates allegedly wouldn't cooperate or calm down, Crowley arrested him.


Crowley told the radio station that he asked Gates to step outside because he didn't know who Gates was, and he was alone and didn't know if his safety was compromised.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/23/police-officer-obama-butt-arrest/


Link has pdf copy of police report also... It basically says the only one aggitated was Gates and he was the one shouting to onlookers.. This is what happens to black men in America...

[juliekan]

""Let me be clear, he was not calling the officer stupid," Gibbs told reporters as Obama landed in Cleveland for two healthcare events this afternoon. He said Obama believes that "at a certain point the situation got far out of hand" at Gates' home."

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2009/07/white_house_cla.html

And Gibbs and Obama must think WE are stupid if we believe that!! I heard it with my own ears when Obama said it.

[Details]

If I lived in his neighborhood, he11 would freeze over before I was concerned about anything happening at that residence again. I could watch a gang clean out the place and I wouldn't call LE.

JMOIt'd be interesting, and no little bit ironic, if a gang of thugs takes this as an invitation, and decides to break into the place - so long as they have a black guy, maybe a bit elderly, maybe in a wig, as their point guy, right now they can probably get away with clearing the whole place out.

What would Gates say, if they go to his house, see someone inside who claims to live there, and the police go away without checking on it?

[Barbara2]

Obama and Gates BOTH owe the officer an apology. IMO

[TBIBeg]

Perhaps if you read the fact first before you post, it would help you out.

"Mr. Gates: He said, I would like to you step outside. I said, absolutely not. I said, why are you here? He said, I’m investigating a breaking and entering charge. I said, this is my house, I’m a Harvard professor, I live here.

He said, can you prove it? I said, just a minute. I turned my back. I walked into the kitchen to get my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license. He followed me without my permission. I gave him the two IDs and I demanded to know his name and his badge number.

Mr. Gates: He wouldn’t say anything. He was just very upset. He was trying to figure out who I was. He was looking at the ID. He didn’t say anything. And I said, why are you not responding to me? Are you not responding to me because you’re a white police officer and I’m a black man?

He turned, walked out — turned his back on me, walked out. I followed him on to my porch. It looked like a police convention, there were so many policemen outside. I stepped out on my porch and said, I want to know your colleague’s name and his badge number."

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/blogtalk-gates-obama-race-and-the-police/

Maybe you shoudl do the same.

[snookums1]

Friends of Gates said he was already in his home when police arrived. He showed his driver’s license and Harvard identification card, but was handcuffed and taken into police custody for several hours last Thursday, they said.

The police report said Gates was arrested after he yelled at the investigating officer repeatedly inside the residence
. So, he was already inside his own house and did show the officer his ID. HMMMMMMMMM. The simple solution for the officer would be to leave since it was obvious that at that point he was the one that was trespassing.

[juliekan]

I read the entire interview, did you?

" They put the handcuffs behind my back. And I told them that I was handicapped, I used a cane. They had a debate. There was a black officer there who was very sensitive. He persuaded them to move the handcuffs from around the back to the front. They took me to the Cambridge Police
station and booked me, fingerprints, mug shot, which has now been all over the universe.

But did you read the police reports? There were reports by two officers at the scene.

[PoppySeeds]

Friends of Gates said he was already in his home when police arrived. He showed his driver’s license and Harvard identification card, but was handcuffed and taken into police custody for several hours last Thursday, they said.

The police report said Gates was arrested after he yelled at the investigating officer repeatedly inside the residence
. So, he was already inside his own house and did show the officer his ID. HMMMMMMMMM. The simple solution for the officer would be to leave since it was obvious that at that point he was the one that was trespassing.

And whom should we believe? "Friends" of Gates, who were not there, or the officers (black,white & Hispanic) who were on the scene?
And, I personally, don't believe any statement that Gates has made after the fact, because IMO, he knows his behavior makes him look like as a$$.

[TBIBeg]

I read the entire interview, did you?

" They put the handcuffs behind my back. And I told them that I was handicapped, I used a cane. They had a debate. [B]There was a black officer there who was very sensitive. He persuaded them to move the handcuffs from around the back to the front. They took me to the Cambridge Police
station and booked me, fingerprints, mug shot, which has now been all over the universe.


Whose interview? The statement above is ridiculous and self serving. Who does this man think he's kidding?

He showed his butt, plain and simple. He owes this officer an apology.

[PoppySeeds]

But did you read the police reports? There were reports by two officers at the scene.



http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Gates_Arrest.pdf

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html


Sorry to all who think Gates was "wronged", but I think I will stick with supporting the officers. Obviously, some people here aren't reading the actual police reports, and are just going by the here say in the blogs.

[flareon]

If I lived in his neighborhood, he11 would freeze over before I was concerned about anything happening at that residence again. I could watch a gang clean out the place and I wouldn't call LE.

JMO

I know. Then you know what his next "news conference" would be. They wouldn't come to the house to protect it because a black lived there. No matter what happens, this man is going to portray himself as a victim instead of looking at his own behavior.

[TBIBeg]

I know. Then you know what his next "news conference" would be. They wouldn't come to the house to protect it because a black lived there. No matter what happens, this man is going to portray himself as a victim instead of looking at his own behavior.


Harvard Prof, wealthy neighborhood. Yeah, he's a victim in a society that won't let him get ahead. :rolleyes:

[dinojen]

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Gates_Arrest.pdf

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html


Sorry to all who think Gates was "wronged", but I think I will stick with supporting the officers. Obviously, some people here aren't reading the actual police reports, and are just going by the here say in the blogs.

Thank you, was thinking the same thing.. he sure tells a different story the morning after than the what the police report states.. would love to hear what the onlookers opinions are when he was yelling "this is what happens to a black man in America"...

[flareon]

Harvard Prof, wealthy neighborhood. Yeah, he's a victim in a society that won't let him get ahead. :rolleyes:

I know. You know what is really sad. When you have someone like this excusing his boorish behavior by making a false claim, the next real victim won't be believed.

[juliekan]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/23/police-officer-obama-butt-arrest/

Crowley told the radio station that he asked Gates to step outside because he didn't know who Gates was, and he was alone and didn't know if his safety was compromised.

"I had no other motive than to ensure my safety, or he could've been the homeowner who was unaware that there were people in his house unauthorized. I just didn't know," Crowley said.


It's called following procedure.

[dinojen]

Funny how the police report only says he provided his Harvard ID and now he's a poor little old handicapped homeowner, bulldozed by mean ole racist cops.:rolleyes: I do like how he points out that the black officer was "sensitive". IMO this guy is a trouble maker and is blowing this out of preportion, just like he did when the cops came to investigate a reported breakin.

IMO

I smell a lawsuit in the brewing... :rolleyes:

[dinojen]

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – The white police sergeant criticized by President Barack Obama for arresting black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. in his Massachusetts home is a police academy expert on understanding racial profiling.

Cambridge Sgt. James Crowley has taught a class about racial profiling for five years at the Lowell Police Academy after being hand-picked for the job by former police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black, said Academy Director Thomas Fleming.

"I have nothing but the highest respect for him as a police officer. He is very professional and he is a good role model for the young recruits in the police academy," Fleming told The Associated Press on Thursday.

The course, called "Racial Profiling," teaches about different cultures that officers could encounter in their community "and how you don't want to single people out because of their ethnic background or the culture they come from," Fleming said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly



Gov. Deval Patrick, who is black, said he was troubled and upset over the incident. Cambridge Mayor Denise Simmons, who also is black, has said she spoke with Gates and apologized on behalf of the city, and a statement from the city called the July 16 incident "regrettable and unfortunate."

The mayor refused Thursday to comment on the president's remarks.


Personally I think these two people owe the police officer an apology JMHO

[Brat2002]

I just meant that you would think the neighbor would have recognized him. I wouldn't call the police if I saw my neighbor using a crowbar on his own house.

I'm guessing the neighbor didn't recognize him or maybe even thought he was still out of town. Not everyone knows their neighbors well enough to know it's them from a distance or at night. If any of us saw a neighbor we knew doing this, we'd likely ignore it, but I doubt that was the case in this instance.

[Jay]

I agree. It shows a lack of courtesy and respect from Cambridge Police, to say the least. At worst it shows two people in a bad mood, and over-reacting. But the police were never invited INTO the Gates home, the owner was in basic compliance with the requests of the police, there is absolutely no reason to arrest an older somewhat physically disabled man from his own home for being upset with police entering ininvited. The non-compliance was the police officer who refused to identify himself properly and entered a private home without permission to do so from the owner.


Until he was positively identified, it was not his home as far as safety purposes for the officers. They had every right under the 4th AM, IMO, to accompany him inside.

If accounts are correct, the Professor's hubris was what got him in his situation, as he said "you don't know who you are messing with" and continued his defiance.

[Brat2002]

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Gates_Arrest.pdf

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html


Sorry to all who think Gates was "wronged", but I think I will stick with supporting the officers. Obviously, some people here aren't reading the actual police reports, and are just going by the here say in the blogs.

According to the actual police report, there had been a previous break-in at the residence and because of that, I have to ask why Gates would be upset at their quick response to another report of a possible break-in. He and his driver were trying to force the front door open and then managed to gain entry. Ok, that is just suspicious by any standards. When the police officer simply asked questions, Gates immediately started shouting at the officer, claiming he was only there because Gates was a black man, despite the officer trying to tell him that a neighbor reported it and he was there to check it out. He also attempted to give Gates his name after being asked for it several times, but Gates would ask a question, then start yelling as soon as the officer tried to speak. Gates was not listening to the officer and chose to yell and be difficult. It wasn't until Gates stepped out the door and continued yelling and screaming that he was arrested for disorderly conduct, after several warnings to calm down. Prior to that, the officer had called the university police after Gates told him he was a professor there. It would have been a routine task had Gates cooperated and answered questions. I am surprised the officer even believed that he was a well-educated professor given the way Gates was speaking to him. He didn't sound professional to me. And why didn't he show a passport or driver's license with his address on it to prove he lived there?

I believe Gates bought this on himself simply by his refusal to ackowledge why the police had been called there and by allowing his temper to get out of control for no apparent reason. He immediately accused the officer of being a racist and totally ignored the officer's explanation of why he was called there.

I would think that Gates, if reasonable, would have first explained things to the officer, then thanked him for doing his job. Had it been another break-in, Gates home would have been secured.

More amazing is Obama calling the officers stupid for following procedures. I don't see where the officer did anything wrong and should be commended for doing his job properly.

Is Obama suggesting that no one ever be arrested in the future for disorderly conduct and showing hostility towards officers or that anytime a person breaking into a house tells the officer he lives there, they should back off and leave the property? Why exactly does Obama think it's stupid for police officers to follow procedure, do things in the interest of safety and expect the public to cooperate with them?

IMO

[Jay]

So this verbal tirade warranted a legal ARREST AND BOOKING? Please tell me how. Note also that the man has a disability, walks with a limp, and had ALREADY shown ID.


I was not there. A person can be disorderly in thier home just as they can in a public place, there is generally no legal difference. I don't know if the arrest was justified or not.

Someone listed the police report from SG.

"hubris"? is that a legal term, and grounds for arrest?

Hubris, arrogance, etc.

He seemed to be saying if the officer's knew who he was, they would not mess with him for any reason??

[momof6]

Snookims are you a cop or do you just work near them? Also you are trying to say this was racial profiling.......Are you aware that they got a call about someone breaking into a house? How could they be racial profiling when they are answering a call that they were sent on?

When an officer is sent to a call, they can't just ignore the call........they have to go. I would think if you worked with police for years, you would know that.

[flareon]

According to the actual police report, there had been a previous break-in at the residence and because of that, I have to ask why Gates would be upset at their quick response to another report of a possible break-in. He and his driver were trying to force the front door open and then managed to gain entry. Ok, that is just suspicious by any standards. When the police officer simply asked questions, Gates immediately started shouting at the officer, claiming he was only there because Gates was a black man, despite the officer trying to tell him that a neighbor reported it and he was there to check it out. He also attempted to give Gates his name after being asked for it several times, but Gates would ask a question, then start yelling as soon as the officer tried to speak. Gates was not listening to the officer and chose to yell and be difficult. It wasn't until Gates stepped out the door and continued yelling and screaming that he was arrested for disorderly conduct, after several warnings to calm down. Prior to that, the officer had called the university police after Gates told him he was a professor there. It would have been a routine task had Gates cooperated and answered questions. I am surprised the officer even believed that he was a well-educated professor given the way Gates was speaking to him. He didn't sound professional to me. And why didn't he show a passport or driver's license with his address on it to prove he lived there?

I believe Gates bought this on himself simply by his refusal to ackowledge why the police had been called there and by allowing his temper to get out of control for no apparent reason. He immediately accused the officer of being a racist and totally ignored the officer's explanation of why he was called there.

I would think that Gates, if reasonable, would have first explained things to the officer, then thanked him for doing his job. Had it been another break-in, Gates home would have been secured.

More amazing is Obama calling the officers stupid for following procedures. I don't see where the officer did anything wrong and should be commended for doing his job properly.

Is Obama suggesting that no one ever be arrested in the future for disorderly conduct and showing hostility towards officers or that anytime a person breaking into a house tells the officer he lives there, they should back off and leave the property? Why exactly does Obama think it's stupid for police officers to follow procedure, do things in the interest of safety and expect the public to cooperate with them?

IMO

Good post.

When you get to the bottom of everything, Gates brought all of this on himself and now is trying to turn it on someone else. And it is amusing to watch public officials flock out to try to pander to their black constituents.

[flareon]

Again, your tone comes through loud and clear. I never used the word "uppity". Yet, you found it necessary to bring it into the conversation. The man, regardless of his color, created a disturbance and was treated accordingly. His revisionist history doesn't change the facts and there were eye witnesses to his disturbing behavior and none to his claims of showing proper ID.

Gates didn't mention his "disability" until he was handcuffed for his disorderly conduct. A cane was not mentioned in the police report until Gates mentioned his need for it after he was cuffed.

I repeat, the man has a chip on his shoulder and was looking for a confrontation. And he got it.

IMO

You're exactly right. Considering this man's off the wall behavior, I'm not surprised that the neighbors seem to have avoided him and didn't know who he was. LOL

[momof6]

I sure hope this cop does not apoligize to ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!

As for Gates turning his back and going in the house for his Id.......How does the cop know he isn't really going to get a gun?

This is a nonissue being blown out of proportion by a black guy that has a problem with white cops.

[dinojen]

BOSTON -- The Cambridge police officer at the center of the controversy that has erupted since Harvard University Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. was arrested at his home last week teaches a racial profiling class at a local police academy, the Lowell Police Department said Thursday.

Cambridge Police Sgt. James Crowley has taught the class at the Lowell Police Academy for five years, Lowell police Deputy Deborah Friedl said.

Lowell Police Academy Director Thomas Fleming described Crowley to the Boston Herald as "very professional" and a "good role model." Fleming also said Crowley was hand-picked to teach the class by former Cambridge Police Commissioner Ronny Watson, who is black.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/20156852/detail.html


Yep sure enough... Officer Crowley knew nothing.. had no clue how to handle the situation.. and totally abused this poor old Harvard professor who was highly agitated and the only one screaming racist comments.. go figure...:rolleyes:

[shiloh2000]

Certain people don't take responsibility for their actions. Gates copped an attitude and expects an apology for the officer doing his job. IMO BO did NOT have the right to make any reference to this incident. He should be running this country. It's all about race once again. BO will say it was because of his race when he doesn't get voted back into office. He'll never admit it was because of his race that he got in to begin with. ALL IMO

[TBIBeg]

Did Crowley explain the reason to GATES?? No, five days later he has the reason ready for a right wing radio station interview. Did he act respectfully to the man? Or did he ORDER him outside, without explanation as to why? This makes a TREMENDOUS difference. You have no details on that, now, do you?

He was trying to get an unknown man out of the house because he was the ONLY officer on the scene. He did not want to enter an uncontrolled scene, not knowing the circumstances.

[TBIBeg]

I know, I know, most black Havard Professors in their 60's with a disability are prone to pick fights with the Cambridge Police. It's happens every day!

I didn't WRITE that, these are the words of the Professor, who complied with requests for ID's, in his own home.

I know how you love it when these uppity black professors assert their rights in their own home, and pick fights with cops.

For the LAST time, so it sinks in for you, it's not the property check, nor even the ID check that is the problem, it's the ARREST AND BOOKING after ID's were shown!!! Get it?

Apparently you don't get it. He was arrested for disorderly conduct. haveing a little temper tantrum instead of clearing up the situation like an adult.

[TBIBeg]

HELLO, the problem isn't the police procedure in requesting ID's, nor even entering the house, following procedure... the problem is the ARREST AND BOOKING... please try to keep up with the issue here.


Hello! The problem isn't ANYTHING. He was disorderly and he was rightly arrested for it.

End of story.

[Jay]

I see now from the arrest report he was in a "public place" when arrested, his porch, NOT in his home.


I do know a "doorstep/doorway" is a "public place" for 4th AM purposes; Santana; US SC.

[Lady_Jean_La]

I just meant that you would think the neighbor would have recognized him. I wouldn't call the police if I saw my neighbor using a crowbar on his own house.Perhaps the neighbor thought he was in China and it was dark.

[Lady_Jean_La]

And Gibbs and Obama must think WE are stupid if we believe that!! I heard it with my own ears when Obama said it.

No. 2, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly

[Jay]

You, my sir, are a champion, at the legal hair splits. Is a porch on one's property (a private home with a yard), "public space"? I doubt you'd get far with that argument in court, but you can try. If he were shooting off firecrackers, or using a public address system, or lecturing about the law, as you seem to do in "public space" here, perhaps, yes, he should be arrested and booked... otherwise, asking for ID of a cop, and talking loudly about being subjected to handcuffs on your own property... I doubt that passes anymore than the hair-splitter's approval as valid reason to arrest and book.

You might get away with it in Mississippi, but in Cambridge, with 3 colleges and 4 graduate schools, there's LOTS of public disturbance daily, seldom involving Harvard professors on their own property.


The reason I brought it up was I thought someone had said he was arrested IN his home, which is a private place, then I saw he was arrested outside the interior of the home!

1. Santana, while standing in the doorway of her house, was in a "public place" for purposes of the Fourth Amendment, since she was not in an area where she had any expectation of privacy, and was not merely visible to the public, but was exposed to public view, speech, hearing, and touch as if she had been standing completely outside her house. Thus, when the police, who concededly had probable cause to do so, sought to arrest her, they merely intended to make a warrantless arrest in a public place upon probable cause, and did not violate the Fourth Amendment. United States v. Watson, 423 U. S. 411 . P. 427 U. S. 42



http://supreme.justia.com/us/427/38/

[Lady_Jean_La]

Right...we have NO TESTIMONY WHATSOEVER from ANY SINGLE police officer, and we know police NEVER LIE, never twist the facts, never protect each other. But a black professor at Obama's Law School Alma Mater, THAT guy HAS to be lying, because, because because....he's Obama's friend. Yup... got it!
Reportedly, some of the conversation was transmitted over the radio and recorded. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Hello! The problem isn't ANYTHING. He was disorderly and he was rightly arrested for it.

End of story.

Exactly! :hat::beer::patriot:

[ExArkie]

I like Mr. Obama. I voted for him. The professor acted like a spoiled child. The cop did what he has been trained to do. Mr. Obama was wrong to bring this local matter into the national arena. That's the way it should be; but, of course, this will be debated forever!:rolleyes:

[Jay]

I like Mr. Obama. I voted for him. The professor acted like a spoiled child. The cop did what he has been trained to do. Mr. Obama was wrong to bring this local matter into the national arena. That's the way it should be; but, of course, this will be debated forever!:rolleyes:


True, and additionally, it had nothing to do with "hot pursuit" as was stated by another.

[cherry]

If it came down the way we're hearing it seems the officer was right in arresting him for disorderly conduct, but did he have to do it maybe not. Somebody lost it here, and somebody else may not have had the ability to de-escalate the situation. It doesn't appear to have been a case of racial profiling to me, and I hope the president takes note of my case the next time I yell at a cop on my front porch.

[PoppySeeds]

Right...we have NO TESTIMONY WHATSOEVER from ANY SINGLE police officer, and we know police NEVER LIE, never twist the facts, never protect each other. But a black professor at Obama's Law School Alma Mater, THAT guy HAS to be lying, because, because because....he's Obama's friend. Yup... got it!

What does Obama have to do with it? The professor knew the situation, IMO was his fault & made him look like as a$$ so, conveniently, the cops are making up everything that they have in their report (with independent witnesses, too, I might also add).
People try to make themselves look better in bad situations all the time, even if the don't know Obama.

[PoppySeeds]

Holy smoking Mark Furhman, how many times must the courts define "hot pursuit," before the police understand they can't have it "both ways." No amount of Jay Bybee elastic stretch covers this one.

Breaking and entering ... probable cause; ID proves ownership, end of probable cause. Arrest and booking? Why, oh why do the police do silly things?

It's called DISORDERLY CONDUCT and there are laws against it in all 50 states.

[Jay]

And, since when is a police officer "trespassing" anywhere?
IMO


Not in this case, but it is possible in fact specific cases, yes.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Mass. police 'deeply pained' by Obama's criticism

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/6544331.html

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — The Cambridge police commissioner says his department is "deeply pained" by President Barack Obama's statement that his officers "acted stupidly" when they arrested a renowned black scholar in his home.

In his first statement since the arrest, Commissioner Robert Haas on Thursday commended the arresting officer, Sgt. James Crowley. Haas said Crowley's actions were in no way motivated by racism.

[Jay]

As posted earlier, at the end of probable cause (ID shown), exit the officer.

Or we could toss in the red herrings and make this a federal case as did another poster with the misuse of Santana, USSC.


Why don't you stop with that stuff already, you did it in another thread.

You brought up "hot pursuit" here, and it had absolutely nothing to do with it, perdiod.

And yes, it is a federal law case, the 4th AM applies to the states.

I always find when a person is outsmarted on a message board, a common tactic is to continually disagree with them.

[CindR]

I know. You know what is really sad. When you have someone like this excusing his boorish behavior by making a false claim, the next real victim won't be believed.

That's what I was thinking, too.

[beattherap]

As posted earlier, at the end of probable cause (ID shown), exit the officer.

Or we could toss in the red herrings and make this a federal case as did another poster with the misuse of Santana, USSC.

per both police reports, it was gates who continued the confrontation, not the cop... the photo of gates on his porch gives credence to those accounts...

gates is lucky... white, black, anything else... mouthing off to cops like he did can lead to worse than a disorderly conduct charge.

imfo.

[ortiga]

snipped

More amazing is Obama calling the officers stupid for following procedures.


snipped

IMO

I think Obama should not have made any remarks about it.

And, I think he should have realized how many Americans don't know the difference between an adverb and an adjective.

[Jay]

I think Obama should not have made any remarks about it.

And, I think he should have realized how many Americans don't know the difference between an adverb and an adjective.


I just saw the President's comments on the evening news, he was WRONG!

He brought up racial profiling. IT had absolutely NOTHING to do with this case. He also said at the outset, he may be somewhat biased as he knows the Professor.

[ortiga]

I just saw the President's comments on the evening news, he was WRONG!

He brought up racial profiling. IT had absolutely NOTHING to do with this case. He also said at the outset, he may be somewhat biased as he knows the Professor.

He should have stayed out of it, I agree.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Cop in Harvard scholar race row innocent: police

A US policeman did nothing wrong when he arrested a black Harvard University professor on suspicion of burglary, a Massachusetts police chief said Thursday.

Cambridge police commissioner Robert Haas said Sergeant James Crowley "acted in a way that is consistent with his training at the department and consistent with national standards of law enforcement protocol. I do not believe that his actions in any way were racially motivated."


http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Cop_in_Harvard_scholar_race_row_inn_07232009.html

[Lady_Jean_La]

He should have stayed out of it, I agree.

Reminds me of President Nixon saying Charles Manson was guilty before he had a trial. Best just to not comment on things when not having all the facts but having the bully pulpit.

I.m just glad they didn't ask the VP! :hat:

[theal3]

He should have stayed out of it, I agree.

He was asked a direct question about racial profiling in the press conference, so should he have said I have no comment. Then what do you think the talking heads would have been talking about today? They would have complained the President was weak, backed away from the question, turned his back on a friend etc. etal. I think it's good he responded as that's what everyone is talking about today, instead of health care. And racial profiling is a fact of life for Latinos and Blacks.

[Brat2002]

I think Obama should not have made any remarks about it.

And, I think he should have realized how many Americans don't know the difference between an adverb and an adjective.

You're really splitting hairs here, but I realize that is necessary sometimes to defend the indefensible. He said they acted stupidly. By saying they acted stupidly, he was saying they were not acting smart. Huge insult no matter how you look at it. If you act stupidly, then that is saying your actions were stupid, which means the decision you made leading to them was stupid and therefore you must be stupid.

These officers knew what the procedure was and they were acting properly. It wasn't until the last that Mr. Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct, which had nothing to do with the original reason for them being called there. Nor did it have anything to do with racial profiling.

Slice it any way you want. Obama shouldn't have been speaking out at all regarding this and he was wrong in what he said on top of it. Jumping in and giving a harsh opinion to the press of the officers before knowing all the facts is what you call acting stupidly. If what he meant was that they were ignorant of who Mr. Gates was, then he should have said that since he just had to chime in.

[Lady_Jean_La]

You're really splitting hairs here, but I realize that is necessary sometimes to defend the indefensible. He said they acted stupidly. By saying they acted stupidly, he was saying they were not acting smart. Huge insult no matter how you look at it. If you act stupidly, then that is saying your actions were stupid, which means the decision you made leading to them was stupid and therefore you must be stupid.

These officers knew what the procedure was and they were acting properly. It wasn't until the last that Mr. Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct, which had nothing to do with the original reason for them being called there. Nor did it have anything to do with racial profiling.

Slice it any way you want. Obama shouldn't have been speaking out at all regarding this and he was wrong in what he said on top of it. Jumping in and giving a harsh opinion to the press of the officers before knowing all the facts is what you call acting stupidly. If what he meant was that they were ignorant of who Mr. Gates was, then he should have said that since he just had to chime in.

All of which just furthers the image that the President acts before he thinks thing through. imo

[Barbara2]

If I responded to someone on this board and said, "You answered stupidly" I would probably be reported to the moderator.

[Susan43]

I admit I haven't read the whole thread but I'm simply voicing my opinion.

It seems to me that if one of my neighbors called the police and reported that someone might be burglering my home, once the police saw my ID they would have just left. I'm just curious why the police didn't just leave after they saw that he lived there?

Let's say that Prof Gates did lose his temper and say some intemperate remarks does that mean that we are not allowed to ever say anything to the police that might upset them?

It sounds to me like everyone is saying that the police never lie...and when I hear that I always remember the video of the Saamoan party where the police kept saying that they were under attact by "rocks and bottles," "rocks and bottles" when the video taken by a neighbor showed that there were no rocks and bottles anywhere near the party. It ended up costing the police and city a pretty penny. Thank goodness the neighbor did the video or those Saamoans probably would have been put in jail and/or fined.

Of course the police lie and back each other up. How easy if when they saw his ID, even if he was mad at them, for them to just leave the scene. They were in HIS yard. And anyone that thinks there isn't racial profiling is either being disengenious or completely blind.

[Carol25]

Tell you what Jon, if you ever get locked out of your own home by mistake and are arrested for attempting to break into your own house, don't complain about it. Just say, "The police were within their rights arresting me for being on my own property".

Snookums, I so disagree. First he had someone call in a possible burglary. Good for him that he has neighbors watching! Then the police officer in charge of investigating came out and asked to see id. Why didn't he give it to them right then and there instead of waiting and making a ruckus inside his home and outside?

Who did he think he was to ignore an officers request? A personal friend of the president's?

I certainly would have given my id right away and thanked the officer for being there because it could as easily have been a burglar.

What are the chances it is someone trying to break into their own house? I would have been appreciative for the work LE did.

And as for Obama to pick up THIS ONE story out of many, why? What was he trying to prove? Calling LE "stupid?"

Those charges should NOT have been dropped. The president was so out of line, I think it was acting as a racist, for he brought it up first! (Never thought I'd say that about a president., but I never thought someone could act out on tv in this manner before.)

[dinojen]

Certain people don't take responsibility for their actions. Gates copped an attitude and expects an apology for the officer doing his job. IMO BO did NOT have the right to make any reference to this incident. He should be running this country. It's all about race once again. BO will say it was because of his race when he doesn't get voted back into office. He'll never admit it was because of his race that he got in to begin with. ALL IMO

Great post.. and I couldn't agree more.

When things don't go his way.. there will always be an excuse.. just like there was with this Gates. Instead of thanking the officer for making sure his home was secure.. he calls him a racist... today threatens to sue... is yelling so bystanders can see .. "this is what happens to a black man in America"... when all he had to do was CALMLY explain it was his home, he couldn't get in his house.. show his ID and end of situation... NO.. he has to scream racial bias at the top of his lungs.. it's beyond ridiculous.. IMO.

[dinojen]

They just said on "The O'Reilly Factor" that Bill Cosby is shocked about what BHO said.:ohmy:

Heard that earlier today.. not surprised at all actually...

[Brentwood]

From what I read, Gates wasn’t locked out and jimmied(sp) the door…his door was swollen and it took a little shoulder action to get it open.

Gates said he did not yell. He asked the officer for his name and badge number after he showed his id and proved who he was. Officer refused to give it to him, instead he arrested him.

I heard a caller on cspan this morning (I think it was cspan...may have been another show?). The caller said white officer arrested him because Gates was uppity and didn't know his place and had the nerve to ask for his badge number (ARG!!!). IMO, If Gates was white, this would not have likely happened..... I am not ruling out this scenerio, although I do not know. But what I do know is bigotry and profiling goes on all the time.

I think it is unfair of poster, on the closed Gates thread, suggesting this was in the same category as someone being arrested in a domestic violence/conflict situation and that happens to white people all the time (or something like that). This was not a domestic conflict situation so it is not a fair comparison, IMO.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/charges_to_be_d.html

[Susan43]

Here is an interesting interview with Prof. Gates.

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,0

I still can't understand why they arrested him.

[CindR]

PRES. OBAMA owes no one an apology. He is absolutely entitled to his opinion, and most "white" Americans agree with him, even if the Right Wing doesn't. :wink:

MO

I believe you are wrong.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Here is an interesting interview with Prof. Gates.

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,0

I still can't understand why they arrested him.

I’m outraged. From your link, I think that explains it.

[Brentwood]

I want to know why the officers stuck around after Gates proved he was the homeowner. They could have just apologized for the mistaken identity and left. Instead they escalated things and arrested Gates.

I think Obama was right. What the officers did is stupid.

Here is what some experts said…see links at bottom of page.

http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/the-gates-case-and-racial-profiling/

[beattherap]

I want to know why the officers stuck around after Gates proved he was the homeowner. They could have just apologized for the mistaken identity and left. Instead they escalated things and arrested Gates.

I think Obama was right. What the officers did is stupid.

Here is what some experts said…see links at bottom of page.

http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/the-gates-case-and-racial-profiling/
gates escalated things, not the cops... they were leaving, but the hotshot harvard prof couldn't resist putting those white working class oppressors in their place.

imfo.

[Lady_Jean_La]

A long plane ride from China, only to have trouble getting in the house, then a cop wants to hassle you... Too much! Clearly he was not at his best and just went over the edge. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

gates escalated things, not the cops... they were leaving, but the hotshot harvard prof couldn't resist putting those white working class oppressors in their place.

imfo.

Add to that, they weren't all white. Just authority figures. imo

[dinojen]

BOSTON — Many police officers across the country have a message for President Barack Obama: Get all the facts before criticizing one of our own. Obama's public criticism that Cambridge officers "acted stupidly" when they arrested black Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. could make it harder for police to work with people of color, some officers said Thursday.

It could even set back the progress in race relations that helped Obama become the nation's first African-American president, they said.

"What we don't need is public safety officials across the country second-guessing themselves," said David Holway, president of the International Brotherhood of Police Officers, which represents 15,000 public safety officials around the country. "The president's alienated public safety officers across the country with his comments."


Love it... It's Gates that played the race card... all he had to do was say.. it's my home..here's the proof and none of what he was yelling needed to be said... the whole thing is ridiculous... Sue as you said you would Gates and see how fast it gets thrown out.. JMHO.. no need to say what you said.. you weren't accosted .. you weren't manhandled.. you just screamed the race card...:rolleyes: for no real reason.. JMVHO.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20090723/US.Obama.Harvard.Scholar.Police/

[CindR]

A long plane ride from China, only to have trouble getting in the house, then a cop wants to hassle you... Too much! Clearly he was not at his best and just went over the edge. imo

I think you're right. He overreacted and then they overreacted. I don't think they were being racist, I think he made them mad and they decided to make him pay for being a jerk to them.

I can't believe he had to sit in jail for four hours - that was totally unnecessary.

Obama should not have used the word stupidily in describing the officers - poor judgment there imo.

[Lady_Jean_La]

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE56M5NM20090724

BOSTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama plunged his presidency into a charged racial debate and set off a firestorm with police officers nationwide by siding with a prominent black scholar who accuses police of racism.

[Brentwood]

This is interesting. I can see the posters who chose any excuse or tactic to diminish those of color. In other words you are showing your true colors.

[Lady_Jean_La]

This is it. I hope nobody buys it. $89.99 lol

It was published in 1999. Not recently as I said before.

http://www.africanaencyclopedia.com/

In some of the articles a new book was mentioned, perhaps not released yet. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

This is interesting. I can see the posters who chose any excuse or tactic to diminish those of color. In other words you are showing your true colors.
It does appear that the President has stirred things up with his comments. imo

[MiamiNice1]

BOSTON — Many police officers across the country have a message for President Barack Obama: Get all the facts before criticizing one of our own. Obama's public criticism that Cambridge officers "acted stupidly" when they arrested black Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. could make it harder for police to work with people of color, some officers said Thursday.

It could even set back the progress in race relations that helped Obama become the nation's first African-American president, they said.

"What we don't need is public safety officials across the country second-guessing themselves," said David Holway, president of the International Brotherhood of Police Officers, which represents 15,000 public safety officials around the country. "The president's alienated public safety officers across the country with his comments."


Love it... It's Gates that played the race card... all he had to do was say.. it's my home..here's the proof and none of what he was yelling needed to be said... the whole thing is ridiculous... Sue as you said you would Gates and see how fast it gets thrown out.. JMHO.. no need to say what you said.. you weren't accosted .. you weren't manhandled.. you just screamed the race card...:rolleyes: for no real reason.. JMVHO.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20090723/US.Obama.Harvard.Scholar.Police/

This type of thing STEAMS me. Obama is the Commander in Chief. He should be backing Law Enforcement and not be playing the race card or play "defend my friend."

All he had to answer to the reporter who asked him about the incident was, "I cannot answer this question because I do not know the details of the incident." Why was he defending his friend? His friend, Gates, surely didn't respect his friendship with Obama by disrespecting Law Enforcement and making this a national issue and placing Obama in a touchy situation.

imo

[shiloh2000]

This is interesting. I can see the posters who chose any excuse or tactic to diminish those of color. In other words you are showing your true colors.

It is all about race.

Jesse Jackson makes it about race.

Al Sharpton makes it about race.

The NAACP makes it about race.

And what do they all have in common? They make money.

IMO they aren't any better then the [nope better not say it]

[shiloh2000]

BOSTON — Many police officers across the country have a message for President Barack Obama: Get all the facts before criticizing one of our own. Obama's public criticism that Cambridge officers "acted stupidly" when they arrested black Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. could make it harder for police to work with people of color, some officers said Thursday.

It could even set back the progress in race relations that helped Obama become the nation's first African-American president, they said.

"What we don't need is public safety officials across the country second-guessing themselves," said David Holway, president of the International Brotherhood of Police Officers, which represents 15,000 public safety officials around the country. "The president's alienated public safety officers across the country with his comments."


Love it... It's Gates that played the race card... all he had to do was say.. it's my home..here's the proof and none of what he was yelling needed to be said... the whole thing is ridiculous... Sue as you said you would Gates and see how fast it gets thrown out.. JMHO.. no need to say what you said.. you weren't accosted .. you weren't manhandled.. you just screamed the race card...:rolleyes: for no real reason.. JMVHO.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20090723/US.Obama.Harvard.Scholar.Police/


Wonder how much money this guy's gonna make?

[Jay]

I want to know why the officers stuck around after Gates proved he was the homeowner. They could have just apologized for the mistaken identity and left. Instead they escalated things and arrested Gates.

I think Obama was right. What the officers did is stupid.

Here is what some experts said…see links at bottom of page.

http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/22/the-gates-case-and-racial-profiling/


Probable cause to make an arrest/issue a citation does not bear the burden of "proof beyond a reasonable doubt".

As I stated in the other thread, I was not there, but to suggest the officer falsified the disorderly charge or stretched it because Gates was black is not very likely.

Even at the outset of his remarks Obama said he was not there and does not know the facts, then he said the officers acted stupidly? Seems contradictory to me.

[openminded]

I have thoroughly enjoyed watching Professor Gates' specials on PBS over the years but I have to say I believe he's wrong in this instance.

The police officer was simply acting like a typical police officer, IMO. I am a middle-age white woman with a perfect driving record and when I was stopped a few years ago (unfairly, I felt) I told the officer, very heatedly, that I felt he was wrong to pull me over and that I wanted his name and badge number so I could report him.

He didn't hesitate to give me a ticket for disorderly conduct for nothing more than verbally disagreeing with him. I wasn't inciting the public to riot or alarming them or whatever other reason the police officer used for Professor Gates' ticket. I just disagreed strongly with what the police officer in my case was doing and for that he decided I was being disorderly. Luckily, my ticket was dismissed a few days later.

I feel that police officers do not like anyone being anything less than deferential to them. Professor Gates' attitude got him his ticket as it did me mine. Someone asked if Professor Gates' ticket meant that the public wasn't free to say what they think to police officers and, going by my experience, I would say the answer is "no, we are not."

The ticket was wrong but it was not racially motivated, IMO.

[darcie]

I will be SO SO happy when the race card is NOT used for everything and anything.

[MoonHarvest]

http://amsterdamnews.com/articles/2009/07/23/news/doc4a68caa1d118b802390107.txt

So many things to say about this. :mad:

IMO, if this had not been a world renowned scholar, I doubt that the charges would have been dropped.

[CindR]

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13307383#post13307383

[dinojen]

Be interesting to see what the Police Union has to say at their news conference today.. they are standing behind their officer which I am so happy about.

While Gates may be a wonderful professor or whatever he is.. it's my belief he instigated the situation by his comments and racial comments.. he is the one that played the race card. Instead of ranting and screaming all he needed to do was show the officer in a calm manner and without shouting.. who he was and that he was the owner of the home.. all would of been done and over with.. but with his screaming and yelling racial comments blew this whole thing out of proportion.

The arrest.. fine .. big whoop.. he went down to the police station had his photo taken and was released..

Obama.. also should never of made this a national topic.. he never should of commented on it.. Could of very easily said I do not have all the information on the situation.. He does that very well on Health Care and Financial issues..:rolleyes: to make a comment.

[MoonHarvest]

http://boards.insessiontrials.com/showthread.php?p=13307383#post13307383

O... thank you~ I looked, it escaped me that it would be on the media board.

[dinojen]

By Globe Staff

Cambridge police unions have scheduled a press conference this afternoon to defend the officer who arrested an African-American scholar last week at his home near Harvard Square.

At the press conference at the Hotel Marlowe, the police associations plan "to voice their support for Cambridge Police Sgt. James M. Crowley and to respond to criticism voiced by Governor Deval Patrick and President [Barack] Obama," according to a press released issued this morning.

Crowley is expected to attend the press conference but will not speak, according to the release. The press conference will include Dennis O'Connor, president of the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association; Steve Killian, president of the Cambridge Police Patrol Officers Association; and Harold MacGilvray, president of the Massachusetts Municipal Police Coalition, which was described as an association of 25 police organizations from Greater Boston.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/police_unions_p.html


Hope it's televised.

[MoonHarvest]

On the side of Louis Gates Jr.

He was in/at his OWN home on his OWN property. He had to be tired after that long trip. The officer should have gone on his way. This should not have escalated to the point of an arrest. Not necessary.

I seriously doubt, had this not been a renowned scholar, that the charges would have been dropped.

[dinojen]

On the side of Louis Gates Jr.

He was in/at his OWN home on his OWN property. He had to be tired after that long trip. The officer should have gone on his way. This should not have escalated to the point of an arrest. Not necessary.

I seriously doubt, had this not been a renowned scholar, that the charges would have been dropped.

Charges were dropped after his little trip to the station... again.. did the officer know it was his home.. no.. it was reported as a burglary.. and until he showed proof the officer had no idea.. Gates is the one that went ballistic.. while the officer remained calm.

Cowley was diffusing the situation when Gates wouldn't calm down.. I think the officer was within his rights..

But I also think it was wrong for the President to make it a national racial media story.. if he had said nothing... it most likely would of been local news and that's it.. JMHO

[beattherap]

I have thoroughly enjoyed watching Professor Gates' specials on PBS over the years but I have to say I believe he's wrong in this instance.

The police officer was simply acting like a typical police officer, IMO. I am a middle-age white woman with a perfect driving record and when I was stopped a few years ago (unfairly, I felt) I told the officer, very heatedly, that I felt he was wrong to pull me over and that I wanted his name and badge number so I could report him.

He didn't hesitate to give me a ticket for disorderly conduct for nothing more than verbally disagreeing with him. I wasn't inciting the public to riot or alarming them or whatever other reason the police officer used for Professor Gates' ticket. I just disagreed strongly with what the police officer in my case was doing and for that he decided I was being disorderly. Luckily, my ticket was dismissed a few days later.

I feel that police officers do not like anyone being anything less than deferential to them. Professor Gates' attitude got him his ticket as it did me mine. Someone asked if Professor Gates' ticket meant that the public wasn't free to say what they think to police officers and, going by my experience, I would say the answer is "no, we are not."

The ticket was wrong but it was not racially motivated, IMO.
gates was arrested and put in jail, not just ticketed...

i agree with you about responding negatively to cops... risky... that's why i think gates was lucky... had he been younger, of any color, there's a decent chance he'd have ended up face down...

shame on obama for his uninformed comments.

imo.

[lunchlady]

I have thoroughly enjoyed watching Professor Gates' specials on PBS over the years but I have to say I believe he's wrong in this instance.

The police officer was simply acting like a typical police officer, IMO. I am a middle-age white woman with a perfect driving record and when I was stopped a few years ago (unfairly, I felt) I told the officer, very heatedly, that I felt he was wrong to pull me over and that I wanted his name and badge number so I could report him.

He didn't hesitate to give me a ticket for disorderly conduct for nothing more than verbally disagreeing with him. I wasn't inciting the public to riot or alarming them or whatever other reason the police officer used for Professor Gates' ticket. I just disagreed strongly with what the police officer in my case was doing and for that he decided I was being disorderly. Luckily, my ticket was dismissed a few days later.

I feel that police officers do not like anyone being anything less than deferential to them. Professor Gates' attitude got him his ticket as it did me mine. Someone asked if Professor Gates' ticket meant that the public wasn't free to say what they think to police officers and, going by my experience, I would say the answer is "no, we are not."

The ticket was wrong but it was not racially motivated, IMO.

ITA with you. I'm also a white middle aged woman, and I also feel that giving a cop any lip whatsoever usually doesn't go well. I've only gotten three tickets in my life, partly because of my highly deferential treatment when I've been stopped. I'm teaching my kids how important this is in general with figures of authority, plus cops have guns and the power to make your life a complete mess even if you don't do much of anything. Part of me feels like a scaredycat for this, but my son is an odd guy with high functioning autism and I don't want him to get shot or in jail for acting weird and agitated. I guess its better to go quietly and rely on due process to give you justice, but I would prefer not to have any innocent family members go down to the station and sit in jail at all. Bad things can happen even if you aren't guilty, plus the paperwork mess on your record is really awful.

One of the tickets I got was very confusing to me, because the cop said I'd made an illegal turn and I hadn't turned at all. I made a few tiny peeps of dismay but gave up quick because the cop got so testy so fast, plus I wasn't totally confident about my lack of guilt during the various places where the lanes split and changed their purpose repeatedly. I went to court with my passenger as a witness and a highlighted map of my route, but the cop didn't show up so the ticket was reversed. This was satisfying, but it wasted a lot of my time and was upsetting, plus I felt I could have easily ended up with the ticket not being reversed depending on the judge's decision. My guess is that the cop mistook my car for another similar car, of which there were many at that time.

My sense of this case is that Gates was outraged and was vocal about it, so he got arrested. Mr. Gates doesn't seem like someone to go quietly, and I must say that if I was a black man I would be even more reluctant to go off with a cop. Who knows what fun would be waiting for me at the station or in the car, or even on the way to the station. He has made a career partly out of speaking up, so I suppose he didn't care to be deferential to Officer Crowley. He didn't need to be abusive though, if Crowley's statements are true.

I lived in Cambridge for a year and one town over for another 8 years. The cops there are highly trained and used to dealing with a pretty sophisticated and diverse group of people. There are some very tony neighborhoods, but there are also some grittier parts, giving the place a bit of a Manhattan or Brooklyn feeling. There is a "town and gown" dynamic between the long term residents and the academic community, and the cops are more "town" than "gown". I've seen them getting comps at food places more than once, one time in a very arrogant and presumptive way when the owners didn't look very pleased about it.

I don't know how much any of these things had to do with Officer Crowley and Professor Gates' unpleasant episode, but I don't think Obama should have said anything about it at all, or at least not for several days until he had a chance to really think about it all and for the dust to settle. Mr. Gates' blackness might have lowered the threshold for the cops being called by the woman who saw what she thought was a breakin, but that isn't the cops fault. If Obama and Gates have a personal friendship that shouldn't factor in to any statements Obama makes to the press, IMO.
I hope Obama learns a lesson with this episode. This is a small potatoes incident and he needs to stay focused on the big issues and be extra careful to not be seen as showing any favoritism to non-whites. His enemies will capitalize on any such display, and the dogs of racism are so poorly contained already.

[MoonHarvest]

Charges were dropped after his little trip to the station... again.. did the officer know it was his home.. no.. it was reported as a burglary.. and until he showed proof the officer had no idea.. Gates is the one that went ballistic.. while the officer remained calm.

Cowley was diffusing the situation when Gates wouldn't calm down.. I think the officer was within his rights..

But I also think it was wrong for the President to make it a national racial media story.. if he had said nothing... it most likely would of been local news and that's it.. JMHO

Again, no need for Mr Gates to go to the station. IMO the officer was wielding power. Each man here has a different account of the events, from what I have read. Who to believe?

I stand Mr Gates was in his own home. When someone enters YOUR home they are a guest. After a certain point the officer should have left, without Mr Gates. The police need to respect limits, too. They are not the ultimate power.

[Scampi]

Charges were dropped after his little trip to the station... again.. did the officer know it was his home.. no.. it was reported as a burglary.. and until he showed proof the officer had no idea.. Gates is the one that went ballistic.. while the officer remained calm.

Cowley was diffusing the situation when Gates wouldn't calm down.. I think the officer was within his rights..

But I also think it was wrong for the President to make it a national racial media story.. if he had said nothing... it most likely would of been local news and that's it.. JMHO

I absolutely agree with your take on this. The critical point for me, is that Sgt. Crowley and team were responding to a reported break in at this residence by two large black men. They had no idea what they were going to find or if the reported men were armed.

So, they relied on their training. Upon arrival at the residence it seems to me that Professor Gates used very poor judgement in not cooperating immediately. Things escalated from there with Professor gates bringing up Sgt. Crowley's "mother" for good measure.

This was not a "racially motivated" incident, imo, tho Professor Gates is doing his best to turn it into one.

As for my beloved President, he should have said no comment until he sees all the facts from both sides.

I am very much looking forward to this investigation and hearing from all the witnesses and I am very gratified that the Commissioner is standing behind Sgt. Crowley and the police who responded.

[MoonHarvest]

According to this article, Mr Gates was arrested Thursday, the charges were dropped on the following, Tuesday.

http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/charges_dropped_against_black.html

[MoonHarvest]

I absolutely agree with your take on this. The critical point for me, is that Sgt. Crowley and team were responding to a reported break in at this residence by two large black men. They had no idea what they were going to find or if the reported men were armed.

So, they relied on their training. Upon arrival at the residence it seems to me that Professor Gates used very poor judgement in not cooperating immediately. Things escalated from there with Professor gates bringing up Sgt. Crowley's "mother" for good measure.

This was not a "racially motivated" incident, imo, tho Professor Gates is doing his best to turn it into one.

As for my beloved President, he should have said no comment until he sees all the facts from both sides.

I am very much looking forward to this investigation and hearing from all the witnesses and I am very gratified that the Commissioner is standing behind Sgt. Crowley and the police who responded.

Hi Scampi, I feel that Mr Gates felt violated. He was probably, tired, frustrated, scared, and yes mad. He's an older getleman, educated, and probably used to being respected.

I think the officer should/could have taken all of this into account after learning that the man was in his own home doing nothing wrong. Again, no need to arrest this man.

Why were the charges completely DROPPED on Tuesday, if this officer was so right?

[beattherap]

Again, no need for Mr Gates to go to the station. IMO the officer was wielding power. Each man here has a different account of the events, from what I have read. Who to believe?

I stand Mr Gates was in his own home. When someone enters YOUR home they are a guest. After a certain point the officer should have left, without Mr Gates. The police need to respect limits, too. They are not the ultimate power.
the cop Was leaving... it was gates, the harvard bigshot, who continued yelling, trying to antagonize and intimidate the cop... the intimidation didn't work; the antagonizing did...

was arrest warranted ?... maybe not... was the arrest due to racial profiling ?... nope.

imo.

[MoonHarvest]

the cop Was leaving... it was gates, the harvard bigshot, who continued yelling, trying to antagonize and intimidate the cop... the intimidation didn't work; the antagonizing did...

was arrest warranted ?... maybe not... was the arrest due to racial profiling ?... nope.

imo.

"Harvard Bigshot?

The officer should have shared his name and badge # and left.

Again who's account of the actual event is real?

[juliekan]

Newsconference on FOX now

[MoonHarvest]

Obama said he has "extraordinary respect" for the challenges law enforcement officers face, but that "cooler heads should have prevailed" in this case

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/07/24/2009-07-24_harvard_prof_henry_louis_gates_daughter_arresti ng_officer_.html#ixzz0MC4mRVSy


I'm with President O on this.

[juliekan]

Newsconference on FOX now

Cambridge Police department would like an apology from the president.

I agree.

[bchand]

Obama said he has "extraordinary respect" for the challenges law enforcement officers face, but that "cooler heads should have prevailed" in this case

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/07/24/2009-07-24_harvard_prof_henry_louis_gates_daughter_arresti ng_officer_.html#ixzz0MC4mRVSy


I'm with President O on this.

Hi MoonHarvest - I will only agree with the president IF he includes Gates in the "cooler heads" remark.

IMO he is entirely responsible for escalating this situation and I don't care what color you are, anyone would have been arrested if they acted as he did.

This opinion comes closest to how I feel:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/24/haberfeld.police/index.html

[MoonHarvest]

Cambridge Police department would like an apology from the president.

I agree.

The DA dropped the charges and the city apologized .. somebody somewhere felt this officer made a mistake/something wasn't right.

[Scampi]

Hi Scampi, I feel that Mr Gates felt violated. He was probably, tired, frustrated, scared, and yes mad. He's an older getleman, educated, and probably used to being respected.

I think the officer should/could have taken all of this into account after learning that the man was in his own home doing nothing wrong. Again, no need to arrest this man.

Why were the charges completely DROPPED on Tuesday, if this officer was so right?

I appreciate your view on this Moonie, but coming from a family with police officers as members I have to side with the police in this instance.

Professor Gates copped an attitude, imo, before understanding that these police officers did not roll to his house on a whim. They responded to a specific report of two large black men breaking into the house. That type of call requires a certain kind of response by LE.

Professor Gates made a huge mistake by not cooperating. These officers had no idea who he was and apparently he jumped ugly and would not provide his ID when first asked, preferring instead to rant and rave about being racially profiled.

The PC on Fox right now has many police departments and unions firmly behind Sgt. Crowley and the Cambridge PD and their conduct that night.

[dinojen]

I appreciate your view on this Moonie, but coming from a family with police officers as members I have to side with the police in this instance.

Professor gates copped an attitude, imo, before understanding that these police officers did not roll to his house on a whim. They responded to a specific report of two large black men breaking into the ouse. That type of requires a certain kind of response by LE.

Professor Gates made a huge mistake by not cooperating. These officers had no idea who he was and apparently he jumped ugly and would provide his ID when first asked, preferring instead to rant and rave about being racially profiled.

The PC on Fox right now has many police departments and unions firmly behind Sgt. Crowley and the Cambridge PD and their conduct that night.


Totally agree with you.. my husband is a ex-police officer and he was just saying the same thing last night.

Also.. I find it odd that the mayor and gov. apologized to Gates before hearing the whole story.. Personally I don't believe Gate's behavior deserved an apology.. Professor at Harvard or not...

They are addressing the president's comments now at the news conference.

[MaybytheBay]

The President should have said no comment.....he did not and does not know the facts unless he was witness to it.
I think he knee jerked a liberal reaction...he had no business taking sides or accusing the police department or an officer as 'stupid' or implying racial rundown....
The fact that the President engaged the media to dismiss his comments and focus on more troubling issues was a further insult and a cowardice way to make his comments 'go away'.
He owes an apology.

[bchand]

I appreciate your view on this Moonie, but coming from a family with police officers as members I have to side with the police in this instance.

Professor Gates copped an attitude, imo, before understanding that these police officers did not roll to his house on a whim. They responded to a specific report of two large black men breaking into the house. That type of call requires a certain kind of response by LE.

Professor Gates made a huge mistake by not cooperating. These officers had no idea who he was and apparently he jumped ugly and would not provide his ID when first asked, preferring instead to rant and rave about being racially profiled.

The PC on Fox right now has many police departments and unions firmly behind Sgt. Crowley and the Cambridge PD and their conduct that night.

I am so happy to see LE standing up for Sgt. Crowley and not crawling in a hole over the unfair and wrong (IMO) criticism.

[MoonHarvest]

Hi MoonHarvest - I will only agree with the president IF he includes Gates in the "cooler heads" remark.

IMO he is entirely responsible for escalating this situation and I don't care what color you are, anyone would have been arrested if they acted as he did.

This opinion comes closest to how I feel:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/24/haberfeld.police/index.html

Hi Bchand, sigh... huge sigh there is so much I could say about that commentary and the incredibly complex world we now find ourselves in.

First this commentary comes from a professor of Police Science. I'd much rather read a commentary from a professor of Philosophy/Humanities at this point.

I feel this person approaches the issue through the eyes of a police officer.


From her own words: Police officers arriving at the scene of a suspected burglary in progress do not put down their armor of suspicion just because somebody proved to them that they are the legitimate occupants of the dwelling.

" An armor of suspicion" sad, no room for discernment? What happened to the nice cop on the beat? One who doesn't approach everyone as a suspect through his "armor of suspicion"

Having said that.. I again ask who's version of the events is to be believed? Why did the DA drop the charges, and the city apologize, if the officer was SO right in making the arrest?

[juliekan]

The President should have said no comment.....he did not and does not know the facts unless he was witness to it.
I think he knee jerked a liberal reaction...he had no business taking sides or accusing the police department or an officer as 'stupid' or implying racial rundown....
The fact that the President engaged the media to dismiss his comments and focus on more troubling issues was a further insult and a cowardice way to make his comments 'go away'.
He owes an apology.

Just as you should never run screaming FIRE because someone said they saw smoke, Obama should not have run screaming RACISM without getting all the facts first. jmo

[Scampi]

Totally agree with you.. my husband is a ex-police officer and he was just saying the same thing last night.

Also.. I find it odd that the mayor and gov. apologized to Gates before hearing the whole story.. Personally I don't believe Gate's behavior deserved an apology.. Professor at Harvard or not...

They are addressing the president's comments now at the news conference.

No apology should have been given until all the facts were known, imo. These police officers were doing their job and instead of berating them Professor Gates should have thanked them for responding.

Gates sealed his fate that night by not cooperating and spouting off. I especially resent him bringing up Sgt. Crowley's Mother. Can you imagine the outrage had it been a police officer saying something about Gate's Mother. Nope, Gates was looking for a fight and he was arrested for his stupidity.

[dinojen]

No apology should have been given until all the facts were known, imo. These police officers were doing their job and instead of berating them Professor Gates should have thanked them for responding.

Gates sealed his fate that night by not cooperating and spouting off. I especially resent him bringing up Sgt. Crowley's Mother. Can you imagine the outrage had it been a police officer saying something about Gate's Mother. Nope, Gates was looking for a fight and he was arrested for his stupidity.

In 100% agreement.. excellent post..

And you are quite correct.. in this part..Can you imagine the outrage had it been a police officer saying something about Gate's Mother.

:wink:

[Jay]

Gates was charged under this MA law:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/272-53.htm



I note the explanation of the Police Union attorney on the news conference that just took place. He stated that a disorderly charge is always subject to scrutiny and is at times, a "judgmental" call on the part of the officer, very well explained, and I agree.

Before police make every arrest they can not call the city law department and ask if such conduct would rise to the level of a crime.

As I stated earlier in the thread, probable cause is all that is needed to charge.

[juliekan]

Gates showed his Harvard U ID, not a DL or passport.

[MoonHarvest]

I feel that if nothing else this very public squabble, demonstrates how frustrated some citizens at one end and the police at another are. There needs to be a very long overdue public conversation between the police and the citizens that they serve.

Not every citizen lives his her life like a criminal. Nor do they approach a police encounter knowing/feeling that they are seen this way.

This combination can lead to a confusing and combative realtionship.

We NEED an open and public forum to discuss this.

[openminded]

gates was arrested and put in jail, not just ticketed...

i agree with you about responding negatively to cops... risky... that's why i think gates was lucky... had he been younger, of any color, there's a decent chance he'd have ended up face down...

shame on obama for his uninformed comments.

imo.

In my case, the officer was a minority and I could tell he was really dying to arrest me but in the end decided not to (for which I was very grateful once I got over being angry).

What I did learn in my subsequent complaint about him is that police officers have considerable leeway about giving tickets and arresting people. If you are deferential (as I was not) you might get off with a warning. If you are mouthy (as I was) you will probably get a ticket and might get arrested. I definitely learned a lesson and would keep my mouth shut (I hope) if I were in that situation again.

I completely agree that the president should have stayed out of this and certainly should not have used the word "stupidly".

[Jay]

In my case, the officer was a minority and I could tell he was really dying to arrest me but in the end decided not to (for which I was very grateful once I got over being angry).

What I did learn in my subsequent complaint about him is that police officers have considerable leeway about giving tickets and arresting people. If you are deferential (as I was not) you might get off with a warning. If you are mouthy (as I was) you will probably get a ticket and might get arrested. I definitely learned a lesson and would keep my mouth shut (I hope) if I were in that situation again.




The crime may not have been an arrestable one? Unless you knew for sure, and most don't, no insult intended, an officer may threaten jail, when they actually can not arrest.

[MoonHarvest]

The crime may not have been an arrestable one? Unless you knew for sure, and most don't, no insult intended, an officer may threaten jail, when they actually can not arrest.

When an officer THREATENS arrest that would scare most people (fight or flight/natural response) also IF the citizen has done nothing wrong, they in turn may be mad/scared. Next thing you know..communications are exacerbated..misunderstood..power wielded..an arrest made.

Both sides need and deserve respect.

[Jay]

When an officer THREATENS arrest that would scare most people (fight or flight/natural response) also IF the citizen has done nothing wrong, they in turn may be mad/scared. Next thing you know..communications are exacerbated..misunderstood..power wielded..an arrest made.

Both sides need and deserve respect.


I agree.


The officer is in control and the average citizen is many times at thier mercy.

I was just pointing out that officers will say and do things they are not permitted to do.

Being detained by an officer can be a very scary thing and as openminded said, she was intimidated, this is normal.

I was stopped by an officer about 3 years ago for having a brake light out. I happen to know a little about the law, so I was not as nervous.

He handled it professionally, gave me a warning, and I was on my way, but I was watching for any conduct outside the constitution.

[MoonHarvest]

"I think it was a pretty straightforward commentary that you probably don't need to handcuff a guy, a middle-aged man, who uses a cane, who's in his own home," Obama told ABC's Nightline.


:lol:






http://wbztv.com/local/obama.cambridge.police.2.1099591.html

Obama 'Said All He Has To Say' About Gates Arrest

[openminded]

ITA with you. I'm also a white middle aged woman, and I also feel that giving a cop any lip whatsoever usually doesn't go well. I've only gotten three tickets in my life, partly because of my highly deferential treatment when I've been stopped. I'm teaching my kids how important this is in general with figures of authority, plus cops have guns and the power to make your life a complete mess even if you don't do much of anything. Part of me feels like a scaredycat for this, but my son is an odd guy with high functioning autism and I don't want him to get shot or in jail for acting weird and agitated. I guess its better to go quietly and rely on due process to give you justice, but I would prefer not to have any innocent family members go down to the station and sit in jail at all. Bad things can happen even if you aren't guilty, plus the paperwork mess on your record is really awful.

One of the tickets I got was very confusing to me, because the cop said I'd made an illegal turn and I hadn't turned at all. I made a few tiny peeps of dismay but gave up quick because the cop got so testy so fast, plus I wasn't totally confident about my lack of guilt during the various places where the lanes split and changed their purpose repeatedly. I went to court with my passenger as a witness and a highlighted map of my route, but the cop didn't show up so the ticket was reversed. This was satisfying, but it wasted a lot of my time and was upsetting, plus I felt I could have easily ended up with the ticket not being reversed depending on the judge's decision. My guess is that the cop mistook my car for another similar car, of which there were many at that time.

My sense of this case is that Gates was outraged and was vocal about it, so he got arrested. Mr. Gates doesn't seem like someone to go quietly, and I must say that if I was a black man I would be even more reluctant to go off with a cop. Who knows what fun would be waiting for me at the station or in the car, or even on the way to the station. He has made a career partly out of speaking up, so I suppose he didn't care to be deferential to Officer Crowley. He didn't need to be abusive though, if Crowley's statements are true.

I lived in Cambridge for a year and one town over for another 8 years. The cops there are highly trained and used to dealing with a pretty sophisticated and diverse group of people. There are some very tony neighborhoods, but there are also some grittier parts, giving the place a bit of a Manhattan or Brooklyn feeling. There is a "town and gown" dynamic between the long term residents and the academic community, and the cops are more "town" than "gown". I've seen them getting comps at food places more than once, one time in a very arrogant and presumptive way when the owners didn't look very pleased about it.

I don't know how much any of these things had to do with Officer Crowley and Professor Gates' unpleasant episode, but I don't think Obama should have said anything about it at all, or at least not for several days until he had a chance to really think about it all and for the dust to settle. Mr. Gates' blackness might have lowered the threshold for the cops being called by the woman who saw what she thought was a breakin, but that isn't the cops fault. If Obama and Gates have a personal friendship that shouldn't factor in to any statements Obama makes to the press, IMO.
I hope Obama learns a lesson with this episode. This is a small potatoes incident and he needs to stay focused on the big issues and be extra careful to not be seen as showing any favoritism to non-whites. His enemies will capitalize on any such display, and the dogs of racism are so poorly contained already.

I think you did exactly the right thing and if I were smarter I would have done that as well.

I'm not surprised at the wide varience in their stories. When the police department investigated my complaint (and sided with the officer, of course) I could hardly believe the huge difference between my story and his story. I wondered if we were even talking about the same incident.

I was very surprised when watching the president's news conference to hear him get in the middle of this. And if he's taking pre-selected questions then he knew that question was coming and what he was going to say (and he shouldn't have used the word "stupidly").

[Lady_Jean_La]

The DA dropped the charges and the city apologized .. somebody somewhere felt this officer made a mistake/something wasn't right.

I believe Dr. Gates has some friends in high places. Apologising doesn't mean the officer did anything wrong, just that officials want it to go away. imo

[MoonHarvest]

I agree.


The officer is in control and the average citizen is many times at thier mercy.

I was just pointing out that officers will say and do things they are not permitted to do.

Being detained by an officer can be a very scary thing and as openminded said, she was intimidated, this is normal.

I was stopped by an officer about 3 years ago for having a brake light out. I happen to know a little about the law, so I was not as nervous.

He handled it professionally, gave me a warning, and I was on my way, but I was watching for any conduct outside the constitution.



Good for you Jay.:thumbup: One can't know enough about their own personal legal rights, imo.

I totally agree with you on your word: "The officer is in control and the average citizen is many times at thier mercy."

[openminded]

The crime may not have been an arrestable one? Unless you knew for sure, and most don't, no insult intended, an officer may threaten jail, when they actually can not arrest.

I'm not sure about arresting procedures on a disorderly conduct ticket (which mine was) but I was very uncomfortable during the entire process (obviously not uncomfortable enough to keep my mouth shut although I did learn a good lesson about that).

I filed a complaint because I wanted it on record. My guess is that Professor Gates will sue.

[Jay]

Good for you Jay.:thumbup: One can't know enough about their own personal legal rights, imo.

I totally agree with you on your word: "The officer is in control and the average citizen is many times at thier mercy."


If an officer told me he had a mind to arrest me, and I did not know he actually could not, say he was lying, I may be begging him not to myself, as who wants to get arrested, even for a minor traffic offense.

Thgis is why officer's mostly have the upper hand in a detention.

[juliekan]

I'm not sure about arresting procedures on a disorderly conduct ticket (which mine was) but I was very uncomfortable during the entire process (obviously not uncomfortable enough to keep my mouth shut although I did learn a good lesson about that).

I filed a complaint because I wanted it on record. My guess is that Professor Gates will sue.

...if for no other reason than to get footage for his documentary on racial profiling :sneaky:

[Jay]

I'm not sure about arresting procedures on a disorderly conduct ticket (which mine was) but I was very uncomfortable during the entire process (obviously not uncomfortable enough to keep my mouth shut although I did learn a good lesson about that).


State laws are different, true!

You just need to look up the # you were cited under and see if it indeed was an arrestable offense.

My guess is that Professor Gates will sue.

Police enjoy what is known as "qualified immunity". For a Plaintiff to overcome this burden, s/he must prove the officer violated "clearly established law".

On such a disorderly charge, I don't see it here.

[Lady_Jean_La]

I'm not sure about arresting procedures on a disorderly conduct ticket (which mine was) but I was very uncomfortable during the entire process (obviously not uncomfortable enough to keep my mouth shut although I did learn a good lesson about that).

I filed a complaint because I wanted it on record. My guess is that Professor Gates will sue.

If Dr. Gates sues I hope it goes all the way but I fear that officials would just pay him off out of court.

[MoonHarvest]

If Dr. Gates sues I hope it goes all the way but I fear that officials would just pay him off out of court.

IF, Dr Gates sued I don't think it would be for the $$$.

[beattherap]

Obama said he has "extraordinary respect" for the challenges law enforcement officers face, but that "cooler heads should have prevailed" in this case

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/07/24/2009-07-24_harvard_prof_henry_louis_gates_daughter_arresti ng_officer_.html#ixzz0MC4mRVSy


I'm with President O on this.
that's not what he said wed. night---

"But my understanding is, is that Professor Gates then shows his I.D. to show that this is his house and, at that point, he gets arrested for disorderly conduct, charges which are later dropped."

obama's understanding was wrong...

he then went into the racial profiling lecture...

and yes, gates thinks he's a bigshot, at least compared with a working class cop... when gates asked the cop if he knew who was messing with, yes, those are bigshot words.

imo.

[Poochie Pie]

No apology should have been given until all the facts were known, imo. These police officers were doing their job and instead of berating them Professor Gates should have thanked them for responding.

Gates sealed his fate that night by not cooperating and spouting off. I especially resent him bringing up Sgt. Crowley's Mother. Can you imagine the outrage had it been a police officer saying something about Gate's Mother. Nope, Gates was looking for a fight and he was arrested for his stupidity. Perfect, Scampi..!! Agree 100% and might I add that I am extremely disappointed in our President Re his actions... They have unfortunately led me to wonder if he would have reacted the same way had it been African American Officers who arrested the good Professor... And, that "wondering" my friend, is what could set this country back 100 years..!! President Obama's comments only serve to "separate" rather than "unite".. IMO

Poochie

[RayStar]

Does anyone know if the taxi cab driver was in a marked car? Logo on side of auto Did the neighbor see the cab driver leave in his auto? From the police report, Lucia Whalen was there when Crowley arrived.

[Lady_Jean_La]

IF, Dr Gates sued I don't think it would be for the $$$.I hope you are right and I would love to see a trial broadcast so that we all hear the same thing without the interpretation of those who are severely biased,

[Lady_Jean_La]

Does anyone know if the taxi cab driver was in a marked car? Logo on side of auto Did the neighbor see the cab driver leave in his auto? From the police report, Lucia Whalen was there when Crowley arrived.This part is a little hazy. I believe Dr. Gates said he had a driver. I'm not sure it was a taxi or some service provided by the university.

[Poochie Pie]

that's not what he said wed. night---

"But my understanding is, is that Professor Gates then shows his I.D. to show that this is his house and, at that point, he gets arrested for disorderly conduct, charges which are later dropped."

obama's understanding was wrong...

he then went into the racial profiling lecture...

and yes, gates thinks he's a bigshot, at least compared with a working class cop... when gates asked the cop if he knew who was messing with, yes, those are bigshot words.

imo. Not only "bigshot words" beattherap, but IMO arrogant and intimidating words..!! Totally out of line.. I would venture a guess that the Professor has NEVER in his lifetime witnessed what that Officer, and most of LE will in their lives as they "protect and serve"..

Poochie

[bchand]

Hi Bchand, sigh... huge sigh there is so much I could say about that commentary and the incredibly complex world we now find ourselves in.

First this commentary comes from a professor of Police Science. I'd much rather read a commentary from a professor of Philosophy/Humanities at this point.

I feel this person approaches the issue through the eyes of a police officer.


From her own words: Police officers arriving at the scene of a suspected burglary in progress do not put down their armor of suspicion just because somebody proved to them that they are the legitimate occupants of the dwelling.

" An armor of suspicion" sad, no room for discernment? What happened to the nice cop on the beat? One who doesn't approach everyone as a suspect through his "armor of suspicion"

Having said that.. I again ask who's version of the events is to be believed? Why did the DA drop the charges, and the city apologize, if the officer was SO right in making the arrest?

Sorry for the delay. Had to run up to the gym to get my miles in for the week.

I guess if one has to decide who to believe, I choose the Sgt. I've read his version and some of his record. I read this on CNN:

Crowley taught a racial profiling course at the Lowell Police Academy, said Deborah Friedl, deputy superintendent of the police department.

Last year was his fifth year as a co-instructor of the course, Friedl said.

"He seems to be a highly regarded £instructor at the academy. He consistently received high praise from students," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/23/officer.gates.arrest/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

I read Gates's version where he prefaces it with:

I just finished making my new documentary series for PBS called “Faces of America.” It was a glorious week in Shanghai and Ningbo and Beijing, and on my trip, I took my daughter along. After we finished working in Ningbo we went to Beijing and had three glorious days as tourists. It was great fun.

We flew back on a direct flight from Beijing to Newark. We arrived on Wednesday, and on Thursday I flew back to Cambridge. I was using my regular driver and my regular car service

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,0

How is that relevant to WHAT HAPPENED? I think he's an intelligent, rich man, used to commanding respect and when he didn't get it, he went ballistic. IMO this is not a racial issue.

As many have said, if you have a big mouth, you're going to get in trouble with law enforcement.

I think the charges were dropped out of respect for this man's position, not because the charges were incorrect.

If the police came to my house in response to a neighbor calling in a possible break in, I would thank them profusely for checking on it.

He was wrong, but he will never admit it IMO.

[dinojen]

Sorry for the delay. Had to run up to the gym to get my miles in for the week.

I guess if one has to decide who to believe, I choose the Sgt. I've read his version and some of his record. I read this on CNN:

Crowley taught a racial profiling course at the Lowell Police Academy, said Deborah Friedl, deputy superintendent of the police department.

Last year was his fifth year as a co-instructor of the course, Friedl said.

"He seems to be a highly regarded £instructor at the academy. He consistently received high praise from students," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/23/officer.gates.arrest/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

I read Gates's version where he prefaces it with:

I just finished making my new documentary series for PBS called “Faces of America.” It was a glorious week in Shanghai and Ningbo and Beijing, and on my trip, I took my daughter along. After we finished working in Ningbo we went to Beijing and had three glorious days as tourists. It was great fun.

We flew back on a direct flight from Beijing to Newark. We arrived on Wednesday, and on Thursday I flew back to Cambridge. I was using my regular driver and my regular car service

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,0

How is that relevant to WHAT HAPPENED? I think he's an intelligent, rich man, used to commanding respect and when he didn't get it, he went ballistic. IMO this is not a racial issue.

As many have said, if you have a big mouth, you're going to get in trouble with law enforcement.

I think the charges were dropped out of respect for this man's position, not because the charges were incorrect.

If the police came to my house in response to a neighbor calling in a possible break in, I would thank them profusely for checking on it.

He was wrong, but he will never admit it IMO.



Excellent post.. my feelings exactly..:wink:

[MoonHarvest]

Sorry for the delay. Had to run up to the gym to get my miles in for the week.

I guess if one has to decide who to believe, I choose the Sgt. I've read his version and some of his record. I read this on CNN:

Crowley taught a racial profiling course at the Lowell Police Academy, said Deborah Friedl, deputy superintendent of the police department.

Last year was his fifth year as a co-instructor of the course, Friedl said.

"He seems to be a highly regarded £instructor at the academy. He consistently received high praise from students," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/23/officer.gates.arrest/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

I read Gates's version where he prefaces it with:

I just finished making my new documentary series for PBS called “Faces of America.” It was a glorious week in Shanghai and Ningbo and Beijing, and on my trip, I took my daughter along. After we finished working in Ningbo we went to Beijing and had three glorious days as tourists. It was great fun.

We flew back on a direct flight from Beijing to Newark. We arrived on Wednesday, and on Thursday I flew back to Cambridge. I was using my regular driver and my regular car service

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,0

How is that relevant to WHAT HAPPENED? I think he's an intelligent, rich man, used to commanding respect and when he didn't get it, he went ballistic. IMO this is not a racial issue.

As many have said, if you have a big mouth, you're going to get in trouble with law enforcement.

I think the charges were dropped out of respect for this man's position, not because the charges were incorrect.

If the police came to my house in response to a neighbor calling in a possible break in, I would thank them profusely for checking on it.

He was wrong, but he will never admit it IMO.

Hi Bchand I see your point, they are good points indeed.

I'm going to ponder this and read more.:biggrin:

[Scampi]

MSNBC just reported that the AA police officer on the scene
with SGT. Crowley has released a statement saying that none of the white officers acted inappropriately. I think this is the officer shown in the picture with Prof Gates in cuffs on the porch of his home.

[MoonHarvest]

Sorry for the delay. Had to run up to the gym to get my miles in for the week.

I guess if one has to decide who to believe, I choose the Sgt. I've read his version and some of his record. I read this on CNN:

Crowley taught a racial profiling course at the Lowell Police Academy, said Deborah Friedl, deputy superintendent of the police department.

Last year was his fifth year as a co-instructor of the course, Friedl said.

"He seems to be a highly regarded £instructor at the academy. He consistently received high praise from students," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/23/officer.gates.arrest/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

I read Gates's version where he prefaces it with:

I just finished making my new documentary series for PBS called “Faces of America.” It was a glorious week in Shanghai and Ningbo and Beijing, and on my trip, I took my daughter along. After we finished working in Ningbo we went to Beijing and had three glorious days as tourists. It was great fun.

We flew back on a direct flight from Beijing to Newark. We arrived on Wednesday, and on Thursday I flew back to Cambridge. I was using my regular driver and my regular car service

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,0

How is that relevant to WHAT HAPPENED? I think he's an intelligent, rich man, used to commanding respect and when he didn't get it, he went ballistic. IMO this is not a racial issue.

As many have said, if you have a big mouth, you're going to get in trouble with law enforcement.

I think the charges were dropped out of respect for this man's position, not because the charges were incorrect.

If the police came to my house in response to a neighbor calling in a possible break in, I would thank them profusely for checking on it.

He was wrong, but he will never admit it IMO.



I am going back to what I said here:

When an officer THREATENS arrest that would scare most people (fight or flight/natural response) also IF the citizen has done nothing wrong, they in turn may be mad/scared. Next thing you know..communications are exacerbated..misunderstood..power wielded..an arrest made.

Both sides need and deserve respect.[/QUOTE

From your response/ Quote: "As many have said, if you have a big mouth, you're going to get in trouble with law enforcement."

That DOES NOT make an arrest right.

IMO the officer's sensitivity training does not go far enough.

I'm sticking by and with the Pres on this one... a cool head was needed. Discernment was called for.

Yes, Dr Gates is an accomplished man in his own home....just as Officer Crowley ultimately feels he has the right/power to hold Dr Gate's fate in his hands.

Both sides need to be heard both sides deserve RESPECT.

I can see how as a black man, Dr Gates, through his eyes, felt that this was racial profiling.

[MoonHarvest]

MSNBC just reported that the AA police officer on the scene
with SGT. Crowley has released a statement saying that none of the white officers acted inappropriately. I think this is the officer shown in the picture with Prof Gates in cuffs on the porch of his home.

Scampi, perhaps it wasn't, especially from the officer's point of view.

But, I do feel, that the Dr felt that it was. And for him and a good deal of black men in this country their feelings ARE valid.

We need new procedures, more understanding, more public dialogue. More of a COMMON ground.

[Scampi]

IMO, Professor Gate's issue with "racial profiling" in his case should be addressed to his neighbor who called 911 regarding two large "black" men breaking into his home.

I wonder if Gates ever thanked this neighbor for watching out for his home?

[Lady_Jean_La]

Sorry for the delay. Had to run up to the gym to get my miles in for the week.

I guess if one has to decide who to believe, I choose the Sgt. I've read his version and some of his record. I read this on CNN:

Crowley taught a racial profiling course at the Lowell Police Academy, said Deborah Friedl, deputy superintendent of the police department.

Last year was his fifth year as a co-instructor of the course, Friedl said.

"He seems to be a highly regarded £instructor at the academy. He consistently received high praise from students," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/23/officer.gates.arrest/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

I read Gates's version where he prefaces it with:

I just finished making my new documentary series for PBS called “Faces of America.” It was a glorious week in Shanghai and Ningbo and Beijing, and on my trip, I took my daughter along. After we finished working in Ningbo we went to Beijing and had three glorious days as tourists. It was great fun.

We flew back on a direct flight from Beijing to Newark. We arrived on Wednesday, and on Thursday I flew back to Cambridge. I was using my regular driver and my regular car service

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,0

How is that relevant to WHAT HAPPENED? I think he's an intelligent, rich man, used to commanding respect and when he didn't get it, he went ballistic. IMO this is not a racial issue.

As many have said, if you have a big mouth, you're going to get in trouble with law enforcement.

I think the charges were dropped out of respect for this man's position, not because the charges were incorrect.

If the police came to my house in response to a neighbor calling in a possible break in, I would thank them profusely for checking on it.

He was wrong, but he will never admit it IMO.

Regular driver with regular car service...that clears that up.

[MoonHarvest]

IMO, Professor Gate's issue with "racial profiling" in his case should be addressed to his neighbor who called 911 regarding two large "black" men breaking into his home.

I wonder if Gates ever thanked this neighbor for watching out for his home?

We will split hairs here I'm afraid. :laugh:

It's a situation that escalated too far, imo.

I'm going with the Pres again~

[Scampi]

Well, that was a surprise. At today's white house press conference, who should appear but President Obama to report that he called Sgt. Crowley and had a five minute conversation with him.

Apparently the conversation went very well, with Sgt. Crowley saying maybe he, Gates and the President can all sit down and have a beer together. He also asked if the President could get the press off his lawn and Obama responded he couldn't even get the press off the white house lawn, upon which Crowley said the WH lawn was bigger.

President Obama did state that both men were decent people but both may have over reacted.

Oh, and he apologized for using the wrong language and adding to the frenzy.

[MiamiNice1]

Scampi, perhaps it wasn't, especially from the officer's point of view.

But, I do feel, that the Dr felt that it was. And for him and a good deal of black men in this country their feelings ARE valid.

We need new procedures, more understanding, more public dialogue. More of a COMMON ground.

The problem with this is that Gates is a respected, renowned, Harvard educated, scholar with friends in high places. He could have gone quietly behind the scenes and made an APPROPRIATE stink that could effect some CHANGE for an issue he supposedly finds so troubling.

Instead, he chose to act like a common street person - ranting, discussing Crowley's mother, refusing to show PROPER ID.....low class behavior that any thinking person KNOWS will not help you in this kind of situation no matter what color or who you are. This man needs to be reprimanded.

imo

[flareon]

This type of thing STEAMS me. Obama is the Commander in Chief. He should be backing Law Enforcement and not be playing the race card or play "defend my friend."

All he had to answer to the reporter who asked him about the incident was, "I cannot answer this question because I do not know the details of the incident." Why was he defending his friend? His friend, Gates, surely didn't respect his friendship with Obama by disrespecting Law Enforcement and making this a national issue and placing Obama in a touchy situation.

imo

Obama has been playing the race card since the primary and as long as he and his handlers think it is beneficial he will continue to do it.

[bchand]

We will split hairs here I'm afraid. :laugh:

It's a situation that escalated too far, imo.

I'm going with the Pres again~

And if the Pres changes his mind? Softens up his viewpoint about what happened?

I see it happening already Moonie...

:wink:

[flareon]

...if for no other reason than to get footage for his documentary on racial profiling :sneaky:

I don't know if he could have thought that much ahead to do it for that reason, but his behavior was boorish and as typical with people like that they never think they are at fault.

[Keno]

Agreed. I think Gates is an attention grabber just like BO. They don't want people to make issues racial but they do it every chance they get.
IMO

I agree with what you stated here. I just sent an email to the Cambridge Police dept giving my support to them. As an American, it disgusts me what Obama said. I think it's quite CLEAR who the racists are- Gates and our own President Obama. I am so-so angry over this. How dare Obama get involved. I am writing to all news outlets - I do believe that Martin Luther King is rolling over in his grave. Obama is an IDIOT and clearly is the full on racist. Nothing will change my opinion of that. I was so hoping Obama would change things around but he is only inciting hatred. Don't RESPECT him at all after this incident. He showed his true colors. :thumbdown:

[MiamiNice1]

Obama has been playing the race card since the primary and as long as he and his handlers think it is beneficial he will continue to do it.
I agree. He seems to do it so very artfully - it never sticks to him.....but this time there is no "GooGone" (no offense GooBeGone - lol) to get it off. This one is sticking.

imo

[MoonHarvest]

And if the Pres changes his mind? Softens up his viewpoint about what happened?

I see it happening already Moonie...

:wink:

Naw, I think the Pres is very smart.

[MoonHarvest]

I am confounded as to how people can't see how Dr Gates felt like he did.

Both men came to an eventful situation with 2 different perspectives drawn from life experiences.

I'm glad the charges were justly dropped.

I hope these 2 men can have a private dialogue and reach an understanding. I believe they may both be good men.

[ridrea]

Obama has been playing the race card since the primary and as long as he and his handlers think it is beneficial he will continue to do it.

Or this ..........

http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_parking_tickets/2009/07/23/239549.html?s=al&promo_code=840D-1

"One reason Barack Obama may have been so critical of the Cambridge Police Department is that he might have a grudge against the law enforcement agency."

[ridrea]

I agree. He seems to do it so very artfully - it never sticks to him.....but this time there is no "GooGone" (no offense GooBeGone - lol) to get it off. This one is sticking.

imo

Maybe Biden is wearing off on Obama, you know ..... foot in mouth problem!

[ExArkie]

I just spent a few days away from home and informed my neighbors to call the cops if they saw anything suspicious - even if it was something which later turned out to be "silly." That is what neighbors are good for - especially, mine who are elderly!! The officer was correct - the professor is looking for publicity for his book! I pity the cops - I don't know where we will get people of high standards to be cops - I certainly wouldn't - we don't deserve good people anymore!!

[MiamiNice1]

I am confounded as to how people can't see how Dr Gates felt like he did.

Both men came to an eventful situation with 2 different perspectives drawn from life experiences.

I'm glad the charges were justly dropped.

I hope these 2 men can have a private dialogue and reach an understanding. I believe they are both good men.
I really don't care how he "felt."

NOBODY likes being stopped by a police officer.....NOBODY. Doesn't matter WHO you are....even if the police officer is wrong for stopping you.....most of us know that it will do NO GOOD for you to be ranting and raving or not cooperating. It is even more inexcusable for someone with Gates' knowledge and position.

imo

[Caje]

Remember, Reverend Wright was Obama’s mentor for 20 years.

“…Sen. Barack Obama's pastor says blacks should not sing "God Bless America" but "God **** America…"

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/DemocraticDebate/story?id=4443788&page=1

[MiamiNice1]

Maybe Biden is wearing off on Obama, you know ..... foot in mouth problem!
:lol:

Isn't that always the way? I always tell my kids - It's the bad that wears off......

imo

[MoonHarvest]

I really don't care how he "felt."

NOBODY likes being stopped by a police officer.....NOBODY. Doesn't matter WHO you are....even if the police officer is wrong for stopping you.....most of us know that it will do NO GOOD for you to be ranting and raving or not cooperating. It is even more inexcusable for someone with Gates' knowledge and position.

imo

The police are not the ULTIMATE authority...each party deserves/is entitled to respect.

[MiamiNice1]

The police are not the ULTIMATE authority...each party deserves/is entitled to respect.
THat's how it SHOULD be - but reality imposes. Have you ever been stopped for a ticket? :confused:

There's that saying: You don't fight city hall.

imo

[MoonHarvest]

"Gibbs also said Obama was not surprised that a reporter asked him about the Cambridge incident at Wednesday's news conference, because


*** he worked in Illinois as a State Senator on the issue of race relations and police."***

http://wbztv.com/local/obama.cambridge.police.2.1099591.html

[Jayne]

Hi Bchand I see your point, they are good points indeed.

I'm going to ponder this and read more.:biggrin:

bchand - well written, very good points.



jmo

J

[Lady_Jean_La]

I just heard on the news, Crowly and Gates have been invited to the White House. Crowly requested President Obama get the press off his lawn, and Obama said he couldn't get them off the WH lawn... Hopefully, this will be a win, win, win...:thumbsup:

[dinojen]

"Gibbs also said Obama was not surprised that a reporter asked him about the Cambridge incident at Wednesday's news conference, because


*** he worked in Illinois as a State Senator on the issue of race relations and police."***

http://wbztv.com/local/obama.cambridge.police.2.1099591.html

Of course he wasn't surprised.. most of the questions were planted.. or pre-screened.

Too bad Helen Thomas did not get to sling one his way...

He is lost without his teleprompter or a heads up on whats going to get tossed at him.



JMHO

[Lady_Jean_La]

I just heard on the news, Crowly and Gates have been invited to the White House. Crowly requested President Obama get the press off his lawn, and Obama said he couldn't get them off the WH lawn... Hopefully, this will be a win, win, win...:thumbsup:

Of course, this doesn't put a good light on the governor and mayor stumbling over each other to apologise without knowing the facts. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

Obama Seeks to Clarify 'Stupidly' Comment, Praises White Policeman

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/07/24/cambridge-police-unit-demands-apology-obama-stupidly-remark/

At an impromptu appearance at the daily White House briefing, Obama said he spoke with Crowley over the phone, and said he wanted to share a beer with Crowley and Gates at the White House.

[Scampi]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/crowley_pleaded.html

"Shortly after the surprise phone call, Sergeant James M. Crowley told a fellow officer that President Obama expressed regret for jumping to conclusions and commenting that Cambridge police had "acted stupidly."

Thank you for posting that link. Hopefully, Professor Gates will join the President and Sgt. Crowley for that beer. Perhaps at that time the Sgt. can arrange for a ride along for the Professor, sometime in the future, so he can witness first hand the dangers our police officers face everyday as they put their lives on the line to insure the public safety.

[MiamiNice1]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/crowley_pleaded.html

"Shortly after the surprise phone call, Sergeant James M. Crowley told a fellow officer that President Obama expressed regret for jumping to conclusions and commenting that Cambridge police had "acted stupidly."
The backlash must have been HUGE for Obama to buckle and apologize like he has done on this.

imo

[MoonHarvest]

Still agreeing with the Pres and his resolution. Smart man.



I continue to believe, based on what I have heard, that there was an overreaction in pulling Professor Gates out of his home to the station. I also continue to believe, based on what I heard, that Professor Gates probably overreacted as well. My sense is you've got two good people in a circumstance in which neither of them were able to resolve the incident in the way that it should have been resolved and the way they would have liked it to be resolved.



The fact that it has garnered so much attention I think is a testimony to the fact that these are issues that are still very sensitive here in America. So to the extent that my choice of words didn't illuminate, but rather contributed to more media frenzy, I think that was unfortunate.



What I'd like to do then I make sure that everybody steps back for a moment, recognizes that these are two decent people, not extrapolate too much from the facts -- but as I said at the press conference, be mindful of the fact that because of our history, because of the difficulties of the past, you know, African Americans are sensitive to these issues. And even when you've got a police officer who has a fine track record on racial sensitivity, interactions between police officers and the African American community can sometimes be fraught with misunderstanding.

My hope is, is that as a consequence of this event this ends up being what's called a "teachable moment," where all of us instead of pumping up the volume spend a little more time listening to each other and try to focus on how we can generally improve relations between police officers and minority communities, and that instead of flinging accusations we can all be a little more reflective in terms of what we can do to contribute to more unity. Lord knows we need it right now -- because over the last two days as we've discussed this issue,



Now that's what I call: a wise mediator.:smile:




http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge/news/x639775456/Report-Obama-speaks-with-Sgt-Crowley

[Lady_Jean_La]

Crowley pleased by president’s phone call

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/crowley_pleaded.html

:thumbsup:

[nsm]

I think if Gates had a better attitude this whole thing would never have mushroomed into what it did. The cop was only doing his job. Had Gates has said something like.."Officer, this is my house and i dont have my keys...here is my ID and I will off to show you what ever identification you require". The whole situation would have been over in minutes. He should have thanked the officer for being there to protect his home incase it was an intruder.

[nsm]

on another thought.......I wonder if a real robber would be approached by a cop breaking in a door, and they robber says..."hey...this is my house".....does anyone think the cop should just say..oh..ok.? In this case, the cop was 100% right. he should be promoted for a quick response.

[MoonHarvest]

I think if Gates had a better attitude this whole thing would never have mushroomed into what it did. The cop was only doing his job. Had Gates has said something like.."Officer, this is my house and i dont have my keys...here is my ID and I will off to show you what ever identification you require". The whole situation would have been over in minutes. He should have thanked the officer for being there to protect his home incase it was an intruder.



He is a black man in America who came to this situation with a different set of emotions, expectations, and experiences.

[nsm]

He is a black man in America who came to this situation with a different set of emotions, expectations, and experiences.


yes, you are right about that. I totally agree, but on the other hand, he is a man of major education, and privledge. He has to be extremely intelligent, and wouldnt you think he would be smart enough to know the proper way to react in a situation like that? Even though he may have feelings otherwise because of his past experiences, the logical mind needs to kick in and he should have acted appropriately.

[MiamiNice1]

I think if Gates had a better attitude this whole thing would never have mushroomed into what it did. The cop was only doing his job. Had Gates has said something like.."Officer, this is my house and i dont have my keys...here is my ID and I will off to show you what ever identification you require". The whole situation would have been over in minutes. He should have thanked the officer for being there to protect his home incase it was an intruder.
Simple......right? :shrug:

[Scampi]

on another thought.......I wonder if a real robber would be approached by a cop breaking in a door, and they robber says..."hey...this is my house".....does anyone think the cop should just say..oh..ok.? In this case, the cop was 100% right. he should be promoted for a quick response.

Right. As Sgt. Crowely stated, the report they got was there were two men, he only saw Gates. Where was the other one. (I just learned the chauffer had left)

IMO, Professor Gates had no appreciation whatsoever of the police's obligations and responsibilities in responding to this call. As you said, all he had to do was cooperate. He didn't, instead he brought race into it, when this had absolutley nothing to do with race.

[Details]

He is a black man in America who came to this situation with a different set of emotions, expectations, and experiences.If I, as a white woman in America, treat a black man badly, because I've had past bad interactions with black men, and heard of bad deeds by other black men - is it OK for me to blow up at a random black man who is doing nothing wrong?

Yeah, there are different emotions, expectations, experiences. Yes, there is racial profiling, racist cops, etc. That doesn't make it OK to judge all white cops as automatically racist, that doesn't make it OK to fail to obey reasonable requests from the cops, that doesn't make it OK to blow up at cops.

We all have different experiences - those emotional reactions need to be separated out from rational reactions to what is REALLY happening, not what we emotionally imagine might happen.

Gates needs to look at this from some point of view other than his own ego. Look at a police officer coming into a situation where a break-in is reported, two men, one of which he cannot see, with a person who looks like he belongs in the house, but is unaccountably hostile, offensive, for no good reason. Recognize that any robber could tell the same story he does.


I get Obama's reaction. He's working on Healthcare, and all the rest - he didn't know the facts of the story. All he knew was a friend of his was arrested - but he hadn't talked to Gates, and he didn't have really any of the story. But still - to duck the question would mean not supporting his friend, and as we all do - I think he just assumed his friend had been in the right, so he made a fairly general statement, based on the false belief that his friend had been arrested for breaking and entering (this is how most headlines portrayed it).

Once he got the whole story - he did what any honest, good person would do - and did change his position, called the cop for a personal apology and to get the real story, etc. That's my President! Anyone can make a mistake - Bush made too many to count. It's what you do after the mistake that defines who you are.

[flareon]

The backlash must have been HUGE for Obama to buckle and apologize like he has done on this.

imo

I would imagine he checked the internal polls and realized he was on the wrong side of the issue. We were then treated to one of his weaselly backtracks. :biggrin:

[flareon]

I hope that Crowley stands up for his principles and doesn't take the bribe.
IMO

I would imagine Crowley will do anything to help the situation. His main concern is his department and their goal of helping the community. This is completely different than the self serving goals of the other two.

[MoonHarvest]

What happened to equality? Do you think he should have been treated differently because he was black?

IMO

I've clearly stated how I feel he should have been treated.

He established that he was indeed a Harvard Professor who lives in the home the university provides for him.

There was no need to drag this man down to a police station to book and charge him after telling him "We’re going to release you upon your own recognizance, and the fine is $40, and we know you can pay it


because we went through your wallet." :rolleyes:

[MoonHarvest]

If I, as a white woman in America, treat a black man badly, because I've had past bad interactions with black men, and heard of bad deeds by other black men - is it OK for me to blow up at a random black man who is doing nothing wrong?

Yeah, there are different emotions, expectations, experiences. Yes, there is racial profiling, racist cops, etc. That doesn't make it OK to judge all white cops as automatically racist, that doesn't make it OK to fail to obey reasonable requests from the cops, that doesn't make it OK to blow up at cops.

We all have different experiences - those emotional reactions need to be separated out from rational reactions to what is REALLY happening, not what we emotionally imagine might happen.

Gates needs to look at this from some point of view other than his own ego. Look at a police officer coming into a situation where a break-in is reported, two men, one of which he cannot see, with a person who looks like he belongs in the house, but is unaccountably hostile, offensive, for no good reason. Recognize that any robber could tell the same story he does.


I get Obama's reaction. He's working on Healthcare, and all the rest - he didn't know the facts of the story. All he knew was a friend of his was arrested - but he hadn't talked to Gates, and he didn't have really any of the story. But still - to duck the question would mean not supporting his friend, and as we all do - I think he just assumed his friend had been in the right, so he made a fairly general statement, based on the false belief that his friend had been arrested for breaking and entering (this is how most headlines portrayed it).

Once he got the whole story - he did what any honest, good person would do - and did change his position, called the cop for a personal apology and to get the real story, etc. That's my President! Anyone can make a mistake - Bush made too many to count. It's what you do after the mistake that defines who you are.



My Pres too. :thumbsup: A great mediator.

Trying to bring both sides together in order to learn from this.

http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge/news/x639775456/Report-Obama-speaks-with-Sgt-Crowley

[MiamiNice1]

I would imagine Crowley will do anything to help the situation. His main concern is his department and their goal of helping the community. This is completely different than the self serving goals of the other two.
SO true. Part of me wants him not to make this "alright" or validating Obama's backpedalling (your post about that had me ROFL!).....but for Crowely's sake, it will be good for him to continue taking the high road.

imo

[flareon]

SO true. Part of me wants him not to make this "alright" or validating Obama's backpedalling (your post about that had me ROFL!).....but for Crowely's sake, it will be good for him to continue taking the high road.

imo

Everything he has done so far indicates that he will take the high road and do whatever is best for the image of the department.

[bchand]

bchand - well written, very good points.



jmo

J

Thank you Jayne. I appreciate your comment.

[trigger]

Right. As Sgt. Crowely stated, the report they got was there were two men, he only saw Gates. Where was the other one. (I just learned the chauffer had left)

IMO, Professor Gates had no appreciation whatsoever of the police's obligations and responsibilities in responding to this call. As you said, all he had to do was cooperate. He didn't, instead he brought race into it, when this had absolutley nothing to do with race.

Gates seems to me as being hot headed person. And yes if he would have co-operated and not nasty towards him this would not have happened. I am surprised that the officer did not go inside his house and searched it, or maybe he did, because when you get a call of 2 people breaking in, they, the officers, has to make sure the 2nd subject is not inside holding someone hostage.

[ABC]

Right. As Sgt. Crowely stated, the report they got was there were two men, he only saw Gates. Where was the other one. (I just learned the chauffer had left)

IMO, Professor Gates had no appreciation whatsoever of the police's obligations and responsibilities in responding to this call. As you said, all he had to do was cooperate. He didn't, instead he brought race into it, when this had absolutley nothing to do with race.

You Betcha. I wonder if the Professor thought he was special cause he is a pal of Obama, a Harvard Professor and is a Scholar. For the most of us law abiding citizens, it is expected that we listen to and follow the police commands or at least where I was raised or suffer the consequencies. I do believe that the Policeman is my friend and was actually arrested by a young cop forty years ago cause when he told folks at the scene of a accident to be quiet, I had to have the last word. I got arrested for being dumb. I did not cry sexism but did defend myself in Court and found Not Quilty but spent the night in the pookey. The rules apply to all of us and Gates should have thanked the cops for being deligent, in my opinion. Obama made a big mistake, got caught and should apologize for his entering into a situation that he admitted himself that he knew nothing about. Very sad that the subject of race was interjected into the dialogue.

[Caje]

I can't remember a US president having to make so many apologies during thier first year in office. He seems to like insulting people.

Obama Apologizes for Calling His Bad Bowling 'Like the Special Olympics'

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=7129997&page=1

[Scampi]

I can't remember a US president having to make so many apologies during thier first year in office. He seems to like insulting people.

Obama Apologizes for Calling His Bad Bowling 'Like the Special Olympics'

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=7129997&page=1

I completely understand your shock. Most of them did not have the courage to man up and admit when they were wrong, as President Obama has consistently done.

Our President is truly a wonderful man and sets a great example for all of us, imo.


:patriot:

[Details]

We've just finished 8 years where no mistake, whether it's "crusade", "Mission Accomplished" or a whole war based on lies, is acknowledged, let alone given an apology, and a change in direction. So nice to have the opposite. President's are human, they will make mistakes - although Obama's have been very few, and very minor.

[ABC]

We've just finished 8 years where no mistake, whether it's "crusade", "Mission Accomplished" or a whole war based on lies, is acknowledged, let alone given an apology, and a change in direction. So nice to have the opposite. President's are human, they will make mistakes - although Obama's have been very few, and very minor.
Calling an entire Police Department acting "stupidly" is not minor to me as was making jokes about the Special Olympics. This is a country built on the respect of laws. I do believe the concept that the Policeman is our friend. Its like civic and current event classes.

[Details]

Calling an entire Police Department acting "stupidly" is not minor to me as was making jokes about the Special Olympics. This is a country built on the respect of laws. I do believe the concept that the Policeman is our friend. Its like civic and current event classes.Police departments can and do act stupidly on occasion. Not on this one (other than in dropping the charges) - AND he acknowledged that he didn't have all the facts even while making that statement. It is an important thing for people to have proper respect for our laws, appropriate respect for the police, even when they are doing something you do not understand - for all you know, they may have a report of a gun toting murderer with your exact description - this happened to my mom's friends once - they were in an identical car, license plate only one letter different, same description as the killers - if they hadn't followed instructions precisely, they could have been killed. But to pretend the police never act stupidly - that's not real.

However - "crusade" gave strength to terrorists, insulted and set us up as the enemies of the entire Islamic world, brought up old fears of the Christian world sending soldiers in to destroy the Islamic world as happened during the Crusades - so, yeah, Obama's mistake was EXTREMELY minor compared to the examples I was giving.


He made a comment before getting all the facts, making the error of assuming his friend was reasonable, when asked a question he wasn't expecting. Minor error, corrected with his statements the next day.

[dinojen]

Calling an entire Police Department acting "stupidly" is not minor to me as was making jokes about the Special Olympics. This is a country built on the respect of laws. I do believe the concept that the Policeman is our friend. Its like civic and current event classes.

I love how a invite to the White House to meet and greet is suppose to make this all okay... don't see that happening.. it's going to be cosmetic and a great photo op.. IMO.. the truth was in what was said.

My husband always told our kids.. be careful what you say because once it comes out of your mouth you can't take it back... (granted this applied to them yelling how much they hated each other...lol).. but I think it is very on the spot...

I have a very very poor opinion of Prof. Gates and his rant.. he showed through his words his opinion of white people.. JMHO.. he played the race card.. no one else did.

[Brentwood]

Police abuse occurs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p53ky3RIjfU

None of us were there when Gates was arrested in his own home which happened after he proved he was the homeowner.

I wouldn't rule out police abusing power. It is one persons word against the other.

How would you feel if you were arrested in your own home after you proved that you were not the robber that they were investigating.

When Gates proved who he was, the investigation was over. Why didn't the officers leave? I think the reason is because the officer got mad at the homeowner.

I think it is likely, that if the scenerio was a white man who proved he was in his own house, he would not have been arrested.

I am surprised people do not realize or care about the statistics on this type of unfairness happening.

[Details]

I love how a invite to the White House to meet and greet is suppose to make this all okay... don't see that happening.. it's going to be cosmetic and a great photo op.. IMO.. the truth was in what was said.

My husband always told our kids.. be careful what you say because once it comes out of your mouth you can't take it back... (granted this applied to them yelling how much they hated each other...lol).. but I think it is very on the spot...

I have a very very poor opinion of Prof. Gates and his rant.. he showed through his words his opinion of white people.. JMHO.. he played the race card.. no one else did.Do your kids hate each other? I'd assume not ... the truth is not always in what is said - sometimes it's venting, sometimes it's a mistake. And you can take it back, sincerely, and someone who is decent will listen and accept your apology if it is sincere.

[nsm]

I can't remember a US president having to make so many apologies during thier first year in office. He seems to like insulting people.

Obama Apologizes for Calling His Bad Bowling 'Like the Special Olympics'

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=7129997&page=1


But on the other hand, when was the last time we had a president who was "real". he comes across as very down to earth and he is not an uptight phoney like so many of the others. I really like the way he handles things. He is like a real person who doesnt have to script every word that comes out of his mouth. This is the first time in a very long time that I actually enjoy listening to his updates and watch whenever he is on. He seems like a very nice genuine guy. not to mention...he's cute too. :biggrin:

[ABC]

Police abuse occurs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p53ky3RIjfU

None of us were there when Gates was arrested in his own home which happened after he proved he was the homeowner.

I wouldn't rule out police abusing power. It is one persons word against the other.

How would you feel if you were arrested in your own home after you proved that you were not the robber that they were investigating.

When Gates proved who he was, the investigation was over. Why didn't the officers leave? I think the reason is because the officer got mad at the homeowner.

I think it is likely, that if the scenerio was a white man who proved he was in his own house, he would not have been arrested.

I am surprised people do not realize or care about the statistics on this type of unfairness happening.

From what I read, the officers did leave the house and Gates followed them out on the porch and continued to harrang the coppers. Can't be doing that and using something like "you momma....". That ain't right. Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct. I am surprised people are not defending the police for doing their sworn duty and being appreciative that they were protecting the guy's property. The Police responded to a call from a neighbor who noticed guys trying to shoulder the door open which was suspicious enough behavior for the woman to call 911. I have no idea what the stats are in the coppers responding to a call to 911, answering the call of suspicious behavior and arresting folks harrassing them. What are they?
I have always reasoned that the only person who can destroy the Obama mystique is Obama.

[Details]

Police abuse occurs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p53ky3RIjfU

None of us were there when Gates was arrested in his own home which happened after he proved he was the homeowner.

I wouldn't rule out police abusing power. It is one persons word against the other.

How would you feel if you were arrested in your own home after you proved that you were not the robber that they were investigating.

When Gates proved who he was, the investigation was over. Why didn't the officers leave? I think the reason is because the officer got mad at the homeowner.

I think it is likely, that if the scenerio was a white man who proved he was in his own house, he would not have been arrested.

I am surprised people do not realize or care about the statistics on this type of unfairness happening.Statistics prove that it happens. The evidence and facts here say that this is not one of those cases.

Gates wasn't arrested for being a robber. He was arrested because he didn't LET the officer just leave once his investigation was over - he came outside, caused a disturbance.

It's not one person's word against another - it's several people who were there, outside the house, heard Gates. It's a police officer with decades of service showing that he IS a good officer, without racial problems. It's multiple officers, including 2 minorities at the least, who confirm the story, that Gates was disturbing the peace.

And white men have been arrested plenty at their own house for disturbing the peace. My husband was one of them once (before I met him). I've seen a fair number of others. And the story is the same - ego, anger at the police, how dare you be at my home, won't stop fighting, won't stop challenging the police, a warning - ignored, and there we go, arrested for disturbing the peace, right there at your own home.

[dinojen]

Do your kids hate each other? I'd assume not ... the truth is not always in what is said - sometimes it's venting, sometimes it's a mistake. And you can take it back, sincerely, and someone who is decent will listen and accept your apology if it is sincere.


Hardly.. my kids don't hate each other... actually the boys live across the street from each other.. and their little sister lives five minutes down the road from them... they adore each other.. but the whole point was.. WATCH WHAT YOU SAY.. even in the heat of a moment.. Sure you can say your sorry and the other person can accept the apology.. but it will always be in your memory of what was said.

Obama should never have made a comment especially when the topic of the press conference was Health Care .. he should of just said he wasn't familiar with what happened and not stated his opinion.. This isn't going to go away with just a meet and greet at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.. IMO...

[Details]

... I am surprised people are not defending the police for doing their sworn duty and being appreciative that they were protecting the guy's property. The Police responded to a call from a neighbor who noticed guys trying to shoulder the door open. ...What do you mean? Many people are defending the police. Most people, from what I can see. Some people see both sides, and some people - but from what I can tell, not all that many - see the officer as entirely in the wrong.

[Details]

Hardly.. my kids don't hate each other... actually the boys live across the street from each other.. and their little sister lives five minutes down the road from them... they adore each other.. but the whole point was.. WATCH WHAT YOU SAY.. even in the heat of a moment.. Sure you can say your sorry and the other person can accept the apology.. but it will always be in your memory of what was said.

Obama should never have made a comment especially when the topic of the press conference was Health Care .. he should of just said he wasn't familiar with what happened and not stated his opinion.. This isn't going to go away with just a meet and greet at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.. IMO...The whole point was - what you say is NOT proof of what you believe.

[dinojen]

Statistics prove that it happens. The evidence and facts here say that this is not one of those cases.

Gates wasn't arrested for being a robber. He was arrested because he didn't LET the officer just leave once his investigation was over - he came outside, caused a disturbance.

It's not one person's word against another - it's several people who were there, outside the house, heard Gates. It's a police officer with decades of service showing that he IS a good officer, without racial problems. It's multiple officers, including 2 minorities at the least, who confirm the story, that Gates was disturbing the peace.

And white men have been arrested plenty at their own house for disturbing the peace. My husband was one of them once (before I met him). I've seen a fair number of others. And the story is the same - ego, anger at the police, how dare you be at my home, won't stop fighting, won't stop challenging the police, a warning - ignored, and there we go, arrested for disturbing the peace, right there at your own home.

My husband being an ex cop has a police scanner.. the thing drives me nuts at times.. but occasionally there is some pretty good stuff on it.. the kids hated it because they knew we would hear where the parties were on the weekends.. but.. it's amazing how many people are taken in and just kept to cool their heels because they lost their temper or went ballistic like Gates did.. they sit for a few hours.. and are then free to go.. it happens all the time...

Gates tirade was totally uncalled for IMO.. he just went NUTS.. especially when Cowley had not really said anything to him except asked to see his ID.. all Gates did was yell and scream racial remarks at him..

[Lady_Jean_La]

Police abuse occurs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p53ky3RIjfU

None of us were there when Gates was arrested in his own home which happened after he proved he was the homeowner.

I wouldn't rule out police abusing power. It is one persons word against the other.

How would you feel if you were arrested in your own home after you proved that you were not the robber that they were investigating.

When Gates proved who he was, the investigation was over. Why didn't the officers leave? I think the reason is because the officer got mad at the homeowner.

I think it is likely, that if the scenerio was a white man who proved he was in his own house, he would not have been arrested.

I am surprised people do not realize or care about the statistics on this type of unfairness happening.

Statistics are not proof. imo

[Patriot]

What happened to equality? Do you think he should have been treated differently because he was black?

IMO

You echoed my thoughts exactly, thank you. It seems to me that "equality" is very selective.

[nsm]

My husband being an ex cop has a police scanner.. the thing drives me nuts at times.. but occasionally there is some pretty good stuff on it.. the kids hated it because they knew we would hear where the parties were on the weekends.. but.. it's amazing how many people are taken in and just kept to cool their heels because they lost their temper or went ballistic like Gates did.. they sit for a few hours.. and are then free to go.. it happens all the time...

Gates tirade was totally uncalled for IMO.. he just went NUTS.. especially when Cowley had not really said anything to him except asked to see his ID.. all Gates did was yell and scream racial remarks at him..

that is exactly how I saw it. The bottom line is that when confronted by the police, whether its a simple traffic ticket or in this case, the cop is in charge and when you disrespect them, things are always going to go down hill. They never know what to expect when confronting a stranger. ( I quess I watch too many episodes of cops.lol) Gates was basically angry at the cop for doing his job. He should have thanked him for watching out for his interests.

[Patriot]

that is exactly how I saw it. The bottom line is that when confronted by the police, whether its a simple traffic ticket or in this case, the cop is in charge and when you disrespect them, things are always going to go down hill. They never know what to expect when confronting a stranger. ( I quess I watch too many episodes of cops.lol) Gates was basically angry at the cop for doing his job. He should have thanked him for watching out for his interests.

.......angry at the officer because he has a huge chip on his shoulder ala "reverend Wright" and looking to be a martyr for his cause IMO.

[Carol25]

The police are not the ULTIMATE authority...each party deserves/is entitled to respect.

Memo that to Mr. Gates, would you?

[Carol25]

The president said Gates was pulled out of his house. The pictures showing him leaving the house show he is walking out and yelling. Where's the "pulling out?"

[dinojen]

Memo that to Mr. Gates, would you?

No kidding... I guess he thinks he is exempt from certain things like most of those elected officials in DC do .. you know like being exempt from the health care that they are trying to stick us with.. good enough for us.. but not for them.

Been listening to the news tonite and it's amazing to me how some are coming to the defense of Mr. Gates.... he being the only one doing the yelling, screaming, spewing racist comments.. but yet it's the white cops fault... beyond comprehension imo... Gates totally made the situation what it was... not the cop...

[dinojen]

The president said Gates was pulled out of his house. The pictures showing him leaving the house show he is walking out and yelling. Where's the "pulling out?"

Don't forget the part where as he was leaving his home.. he was yelling at standbyers THIS IS HOW A BLACK MAN IN AMERICA IS TREATED..

Black, white, yellow, green, orange.. anyone that acted the way he did .. would I think be treated the same way that Prof. Gates was... he is the one again that made this a racial issue.. IMO

His arrogance is what caused his problem.. all he had to do was lower his voice.. show his ID and it would been a mute issue. IMO.. but no he made it a racial issue..

[MoonHarvest]

Since I wasn't there, I do not know what Gates said or what his body language was, actually neither do you. Who said that about "we know you can pay it because we went through your wallet"? Anyone else but you?
IMO

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,2

[dinojen]

http://www.theroot.com/views/skip-gates-speaks?page=0,2

Ohhhhhhhhh I feel so sorry for him.. he's claustrophobic.. gee just think if he would of done as he was asked.. he never would of been put in a cell then moved to another room so he could be with "friends"...

All he had to do was explain it was his home.. show his ID.. and shut his mouth and he never would of seen the Cambridge jail.. this whole story of his is ridiculous.. he caused what happened to him IMO...

The more I read his comments.. the more I think he is playing the "card".. JMVHO.. especially with the link you provided... again JMO

[ABC]

Ohhhhhhhhh I feel so sorry for him.. he's claustrophobic.. gee just think if he would of done as he was asked.. he never would of been put in a cell then moved to another room so he could be with "friends"...

All he had to do was explain it was his home.. show his ID.. and shut his mouth and he never would of seen the Cambridge jail.. this whole story of his is ridiculous.. he caused what happened to him IMO...

The more I read his comments.. the more I think he is playing the "card".. JMVHO.. especially with the link you provided... again JMO

Many inmates are "claustrophobic" particularly when put in a cell and "can't" be there. Its very common but somehow they "survive" it and a well know ploy at the jail place. The whole process the Professor describes is the booking story and for those who watch "Jail" surely recognize it. Its what happens when booked to every single person arrested. Not unusual, not discriminatory, not reserved for any catagory of inmates but a normal, everyday, ordinary, garden variety booking for those arrested, Professor except most inmates would not be talking to their pals in an interview room.

[flareon]

I love how a invite to the White House to meet and greet is suppose to make this all okay... don't see that happening.. it's going to be cosmetic and a great photo op.. IMO.. the truth was in what was said.

My husband always told our kids.. be careful what you say because once it comes out of your mouth you can't take it back... (granted this applied to them yelling how much they hated each other...lol).. but I think it is very on the spot...

I have a very very poor opinion of Prof. Gates and his rant.. he showed through his words his opinion of white people.. JMHO.. he played the race card.. no one else did.

You're absolutely right. This is getting to be a common occurrence. Obama screws up, reads a poll, flip flops and then does a dog and pony show instead of an honest apology or change of tactic. It will never change until the polls finally tell him that his schtick isn't working.

What I am hoping is that the police release the tapes and people get to hear the actual exchange between the parties.

[MoonHarvest]

Ohhhhhhhhh I feel so sorry for him.. he's claustrophobic.. gee just think if he would of done as he was asked.. he never would of been put in a cell then moved to another room so he could be with "friends"...

All he had to do was explain it was his home.. show his ID.. and shut his mouth and he never would of seen the Cambridge jail.. this whole story of his is ridiculous.. he caused what happened to him IMO...

The more I read his comments.. the more I think he is playing the "card".. JMVHO.. especially with the link you provided... again JMO

Well we differ here greatly. I find your sarcasm sad.

I stand by the Pres, a wise man imo... who sees an opportunity for open dialogue and hopefully learning between these two men.

I hope the three of them have that beer at the WH. I think they will all be better from it.

Again words from Dr Gate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072101771.html?hpid=artslot

And more from his friend.

http://www.theroot.com/views/what-do-you-call-black-man-phd?page=0,1

[flareon]

My husband being an ex cop has a police scanner.. the thing drives me nuts at times.. but occasionally there is some pretty good stuff on it.. the kids hated it because they knew we would hear where the parties were on the weekends.. but.. it's amazing how many people are taken in and just kept to cool their heels because they lost their temper or went ballistic like Gates did.. they sit for a few hours.. and are then free to go.. it happens all the time...

Gates tirade was totally uncalled for IMO.. he just went NUTS.. especially when Cowley had not really said anything to him except asked to see his ID.. all Gates did was yell and scream racial remarks at him..

That is exactly right. Each part of the judicial system has a role. A police officer is a first responder. Their job is to respond to a situation, ascertain what is needed and to perform the initial function in order to bring the event to a close or to pass it on to someone else. It is uncommon for the police to take someone, who is unable to control themselves, into custody and let the next phase take over.

[Lady_Jean_La]

Many inmates are "claustrophobic" particularly when put in a cell and "can't" be there. Its very common but somehow they "survive" it and a well know ploy at the jail place. The whole process the Professor describes is the booking story and for those who watch "Jail" surely recognize it. Its what happens when booked to every single person arrested. Not unusual, not discriminatory, not reserved for any catagory of inmates but a normal, everyday, ordinary, garden variety booking for those arrested, Professor except most inmates would not be talking to their pals in an interview room.

I would be claustrophobic on a nonstop flight from China!

[RayStar]

MSNBC just reported that the AA police officer on the scene
with SGT. Crowley has released a statement saying that none of the white officers acted inappropriately. I think this is the officer shown in the picture with Prof Gates in cuffs on the porch of his home.Do you want your paycheck-ok say what I tell you.

[RayStar]

IMO, Professor Gate's issue with "racial profiling" in his case should be addressed to his neighbor who called 911 regarding two large "black" men breaking into his home.

I wonder if Gates ever thanked this neighbor for watching out for his home? How does your last sentence make any sense? If the neighbor knew Mr. Gates, why make the 911 call? Who calls LE on owners breaking into their own home? Why didn't she speak to Mr. Gates if she knew him? Did she relay that the limo driver was no longer at the scene? Did she notice any luggage?
The 911 call may end the confusion.

[ABC]

How does your last sentence make any sense? If the neighbor knew Mr. Gates, why make the 911 call? Who calls LE on owners breaking into their own home? Why didn't she speak to Mr. Gates if she knew him? Did she relay that the limo driver was no longer at the scene? Did she notice any luggage?
The 911 call may end the confusion.

I don't think there is any confusion. A neighbor notices two men shouldering the front door of a house, calls 911 as it appears suspicious to her. Police respond to call and identify occupant of house. Police leave and the occupant of the house follows them out and becomes disorderly in his behavior and remarks. What does "tired" mean?????

[Lady_Jean_La]

How does your last sentence make any sense? If the neighbor knew Mr. Gates, why make the 911 call? Who calls LE on owners breaking into their own home? Why didn't she speak to Mr. Gates if she knew him? Did she relay that the limo driver was no longer at the scene? Did she notice any luggage?
The 911 call may end the confusion.

I believe the woman neighbor who called was a temporary guest. imo

[Lady_Jean_La]

http://amsterdamnews.com/articles/2009/07/23/news/doc4a68caa1d118b802390107.txt

So many things to say about this. :mad:

IMO, if this had not been a world renowned scholar, I doubt that the charges would have been dropped.I don't think it is unusual to drop charges, when a governor and mayor apologize.

[MaybytheBay]

Well we differ here greatly. I find your sarcasm sad.

I stand by the Pres, a wise man imo... who sees an opportunity for open dialogue and hopefully learning between these two men.

I hope the three of them have that beer at the WH. I think they will all be better from it.

Again words from Dr Gate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072101771.html?hpid=artslot

And more from his friend.

http://www.theroot.com/views/what-do-you-call-black-man-phd?page=0,1



'Wise man would have reserved judgment before jumping off cliff to conclusion.'

[juliekan]

'Wise man would have reserved judgment before jumping off cliff to conclusion.'

So wise a quote. Is it you, or from someone else?

:patriot:

[Details]

'Wise man would have reserved judgment before jumping off cliff to conclusion.'And he did - mostly. In his initial response to the question - a question he was obviously not expecting - he stated he didn't know all the facts - and mostly spoke in generalities about the past history of minorities and cops. He did make the mistake of assuming his friend was more in the right than he actually was - but other than that - there was no jumping to a conclusion.

Nor did he make any final conclusion - he went and looked at the facts before coming to his final conclusion today.

[bchand]

Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Police Report

"I'll speak with your mama outside," Harvard prof told Cambridge cops

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

[Scampi]

Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Police Report

"I'll speak with your mama outside," Harvard prof told Cambridge cops

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

Thanks for posting this Bee!! For such a smart man, Professor Gates sure lacked intelliegence in dealing with this responding officer of the law, imo.

Again, I think Gates would benefit greatly from a ride along with any police officer, in reponse to other breaking and entering calls, to see first hand how these dedicated policemen and women put their lives on the line every single day.

Perhaps then, he would see the debt he owes them for responding and attempting to secure his home.

[lunchlady]

I appreciate Obama backing down, but I guess its not really a full apology. He will probably be hounded until he does give one, but that might work against him too. Might be better to just tough it out from here and stop commenting. Hopefully Obama has learned to wait longer to comment, and more carefully if at all.

I appreciate any airing of racial issues, because it seems better overall than not discussing it at all. Changing the norm from full white control to a more balanced system is still in process. If I was a black man I would expect the worst, in all sorts of situations.
It seems that Gates overreacted and was obnoxious, and hopefully he has also learned to not be such a jerk. I'll give him a few points off for righteous indignation, but he needs to learn when to cool his jets, even for his own sake.

The background for this event is still a problem, however. Racial profiling is real, despite any official denials. A few years ago we had a babysitter on New Year's Eve, and we said goodnight to her and went to bed because she was still waiting for her black boyfriend to come pick her up. Hours later we noticed that she was sleeping on the couch in the living room. Turns out that he was getting stopped so often and for so long that he finally gave up and went home. He finally came at 6 AM, when apparently the cops calmed down. I never get stopped around here, but I'm an older white lady. He was a sweet religious guy with a old dented car, not a rapper-wannabe, but he couldn't travel on New Years' Eve into my neighborhood.

[Lady_Jean_La]

The whole thing is sadly ridculous! "Skip" sounds and acts like a moody hormonal adolescent - rude. And I'm quite sure the cop has heard worse: walking away would have been the best idea. I would have left him on his front porch screaming and making an *** of himself - all by himself! Just another ungratelful citizen - who may someday be wondering why the police aren't rushing to his 911 call at that address.

Seriously though - my parents raised me to use the words "Sir" and "thank you" to police. Here is a perfectly reasonable scenario: "I live here officer and here is my ID. Thank you for checking. Guess I"ll have to introduce my self to my neighbor, lol. Thank you for coming by, sir".

See? 2 sirs and 2 thank yous in a very brief exchange. I have been well trained. :thumbup:

Exactly! :thumbsup: