Neverland Valley Ranch - Where should MJ be buried?

[disneyfreak]

There were some good discussions going on about Neverland the last few days so I thought I'd start a thread.



Santa Ynez Residents Say Never! to Conversion of Jackson’s Neverland Ranch
http://www.noozhawk.com/local_news/article/072109_santa_ynez_residents_say_never_to_conversio n_of_jacksons_neverland/

It was also on the front page of the Santa Barbara News-Press this morning.

[Unperson1984]

I really think the hold up in burying MJ is the hope Neverland can be turned into a Graceland type tourist attraction, it wouldn't make sense to bury him there otherwise.

[GentleBreeze]

I hope in the end that MJ goes back to Neverland.:rose:

His children has got to have such beautiful memories of this magical place. It was their childhood home and they should be able to always keep it in their family.

I think he will make more than enough money posthumously where the Administrators can buy out the other person that was in the joint venture with MJ.

imo

[retiredcop]

Mr Jackson never wanted to go back there. His children didn't live there long enough to be considered their childhood home. The neighbors don't want Graceland West there and will fight it.

Why not bury him in Gary, Indiana where he was born? Some land can be bought there for a museum. If you build it they will come. That would help out the town financially and give residents there jobs.

in my opinion

[tv4me]

If I had the money, I would buy all the land surrounding Neverland in the hopes it would become the next Graceland. I cannot imagine that Sony, Trump or any other really rich businessman or company has not thought of this. Neverland could be a goldmine with some of the profits going towards CA, some towards the family and even some for charity. They could even bring back the amusement rides. Michael Jackson has a huge fan base all over the world. If you build it, they will come.

Everyone I have spoken to have said they would visit at least once, if Neverland were open to the public...and yes, I live in Southern California, and I would visit there too. What's best, is that it would bring about a lot of jobs and money to a state where so many are losing their jobs, getting paycuts and struggling to find work. I think Michael would be happy about that. I really hope it comes to pass.

[Firehead11]

ITA with you. Even if it is not developed -- I hope the Jacksons retain it as MJ's final place of rest. JMO

I agree with you both. I would like to see him placed at rest there. No where else seems so fitting.

[GentleBreeze]

If I had the money, I would buy all the land surrounding Neverland in the hopes it would become the next Graceland. I cannot imagine that Sony, Trump or any other really rich businessman or company has not thought of this. Neverland could be a goldmine with some of the profits going towards CA, some towards the family and even some for charity. They could even bring back the amusement rides. Michael Jackson has a huge fan base all over the world. If you build it, they will come.

Everyone I have spoken to have said they would visit at least once, if Neverland were open to the public...and yes, I live in Southern California, and I would visit there too. What's best, is that it would bring about a lot of jobs and money to a state where so many are losing their jobs, getting paycuts and struggling to find work. I think Michael would be happy about that. I really hope it comes to pass.

I agree and Graceland sits on a little less than 14 acres. With Neverland already having around 2700 acres there would be no need to buy up more property. It has a vast amount of land already and more than enough to have Neverland up and going again.

imo

[vonna]

Mr Jackson never wanted to go back there. His children didn't live there long enough to be considered their childhood home. The neighbors don't want Graceland West there and will fight it.

Why not bury him in Gary, Indiana where he was born? Some land can be bought there for a museum. If you build it they will come. That would help out the town financially and give residents there jobs.

in my opinion

California could use the income. I hope he is buried here.

[Unperson1984]

What do advocates of turning Neverland into a Graceland like attraction envision? Neverland to day isn't the Neverland MJ lived at, the rides are gone, and the zoo is gone. Would it just be a tour of the house and filing passed his grave?

[Firehead11]

What do I picture it as?

I think I would like to see it as it was in all of it's glory without the zoo. I would like to see a quiet place where one could visit a crypt that holds Jackson's body.

I would like to see an area where children, could play and just be themselves.

I would like to see the interior of the house with Jackson's items installed. I would like to see a room where all of his gold albums are displayed.

Maybe an area where his videos could be shown for those who are interested. Maybe a video so a person could understand all the work that went into making a music video.

I have to give it a little more thought.

[Firehead11]

I think it's sad that some claim to know he would have wanted to be buried there, when he clearly stated it was no longer his home, and he never wanted to set foot there again.

I have no great love for the man, quite the contrary, however I believe he made his wishes well known.............and as far as we know, he was true to his word. He never set foot there in all the years that followed. imo


Can I ask you a question without a argument happening? Why do you think Jackson retained a partial ownership of Neverland? Why do you think he stopped the auction of his personal items?

I think he planned on going back when the time was right for him. Alas, the right time happened sooner than expected due to his death.

[GentleBreeze]

What do advocates of turning Neverland into a Graceland like attraction envision? Neverland to day isn't the Neverland MJ lived at, the rides are gone, and the zoo is gone. Would it just be a tour of the house and filing passed his grave?

There are no rides at Graceland either and millions of people have come for almost 32 years.

Yes, they would set it up pretty much like Graceland imo. Where they would have MJs awards/ gold and platinum albums displayed in rooms, videos of him always playing in another room. His famous clothing displayed in another room. They could display his favorite cars including the little golf cart that he used to buzz around while on the grounds. They would make the place they buried him set up as more of a meditation garden for visitors to sit in silence or come by the grave and leave flowers. Just like they do to this day for Elvis. Come the week of August flowers from all over the world will fill Graceland, so much so that they have to place them on the winding walkways and around his graveside.

Some of his home would be closed off to the public I am sure just like no visitor gets to see the upstairs quarters of Elvis' home. At one time family members were still living upstairs.

I have been to Graceland several times and it all flows with such fluidity and the visitors are very reverent as they look and are amazed at everything they see that one man accomplished in 42 years. The spirit of Elvis is in the air everywhere there just like the fans will feel MJs presence also.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Can I ask you a question without a argument happening? Why do you think Jackson retained a partial ownership of Neverland? Why do you think he stopped the auction of his personal items?

I think he planned on going back when the time was right for him. Alas, the right time happened sooner than expected due to his death.

ITA!

The time was right. He and his children were going to be returning to their home.

That is why he kept partial ownership in it and why he stopped the auction from happening.

IMO

[aproudmom]

IMO It will never happen and shouldn't they do not want him there I just want those kids to get their daddy laid to rest in a private manner behind the gates what is the hold up we do not know for sure we are just guessing I did talk to my preacher and he said some religions feel everything should be buried with their loved one so it could be nothing more than they want all of their son brother uncle and most of all daddy laid to rest I do not know I do not have that crystal ball as so many pretend to have...I say lay him to rest right were he is but in the gated area I know they are afraid of his body being taken would not be the first time it happened so I can see the concern..but I do not think anyone is privy to were he is finally laying in rest..His kids need place to go and feel they are close to him so I hear little Blanket is asking if daddy is on Holiday these kids and KJ needs to decide and lay him to rest and the heck with everyone else..JMO

[aproudmom]

What do advocates of turning Neverland into a Graceland like attraction envision? Neverland to day isn't the Neverland MJ lived at, the rides are gone, and the zoo is gone. Would it just be a tour of the house and filing passed his grave?

but they say they will fight it and have already started so what is he to be just laying on ice until they fight a battle..If the people around there agreed I would not care but they have said they will fight it to the end...

[GentleBreeze]

IMO It will never happen and shouldn't they do not want him there I just want those kids to get their daddy laid to rest in a private manner behind the gates what is the hold up we do not know for sure we are just guessing I did talk to my preacher and he said some religions feel everything should be buried with their loved one so it could be nothing more than they want all of their son brother uncle and most of all daddy laid to rest I do not know I do not have that crystal ball as so many pretend to have...I say lay him to rest right were he is but in the gated area I know they are afraid of his body being taken would not be the first time it happened so I can see the concern..but I do not think anyone is privy to were he is finally laying in rest..His kids need place to go and feel they are close to him so I hear little Blanket is asking if daddy is on Holiday these kids and KJ needs to decide and lay him to rest and the heck with everyone else..JMO

From what I have read KJs concern is that Neverland must be fully in the Jackson name. I do think the Administrators already know they have enough to buy the other guy out that was in the joint venture with MJ.

I really don't blame her for that. That is a smart move imo. That way the co-owner cant call the shots as to what he does with Neverland once and if MJ is buried there.

I don't blame them for taking their time. MJ wasn't just anybody. People can do very ghoulish things when icons die.

They know they must find a place where they feel absolutely certain his grave will not be tampered with. IMO the best place for that is the gated property of Neverland where security can be set up 24/7 like it is at Graceland.

imo

[Firehead11]

Investment? Maybe. I know that if I never wanted to go back into a place again, I would have sold it. I also think he kept his items so that they could be placed back at the house.

IIRC, he said he would never return to Neverland but that was many years ago and things get said out of hurt and anger.

Unlike you, I have enjoyed his music and regret that I never got to see him in concert. Bet he put on a helluva show. I purchased his all of his music. After his death, I purchased his videos. I think he had a helluva a talent.

[Unperson1984]

From what I have read KJs concern is that Neverland must be fully in the Jackson name. I do think the Administrators already know they have enough to buy the other guy out that was in the joint venture with MJ.

I really don't blame her for that. That is a smart move imo. That way the co-owner cant call the shots as to what he does with Neverland once and if MJ is buried there.

I don't blame them for taking their time. MJ wasn't just anybody. People can do very ghoulish things when icons die.

They know they must find a place where they feel absolutely certain his grave will not be tampered with. IMO the best place for that is the gated property of Neverland where security can be set up 24/7 like it is at Graceland.

imo

Who will pay for the 24/7 security?

[Unperson1984]

There are no rides at Graceland either and millions of people have come for almost 32 years.

Yes, they would set it up pretty much like Graceland imo. Where they would have MJs awards/ gold and platinum albums displayed in rooms, videos of him always playing in another room. His famous clothing displayed in another room. They could display his favorite cars including the little golf cart that he used to buzz around while on the grounds. They would make the place they buried him set up as more of a meditation garden for visitors to sit in silence or come by the grave and leave flowers. Just like they do to this day for Elvis. Come the week of August flowers from all over the world will fill Graceland, so much so that they have to place them on the winding walkways and around his graveside.

Some of his home would be closed off to the public I am sure just like no visitor gets to see the upstairs quarters of Elvis' home. At one time family members were still living upstairs.

I have been to Graceland several times and it all flows with such fluidity and the visitors are very reverent as they look and are amazed at everything they see that one man accomplished in 42 years. The spirit of Elvis is in the air everywhere there just like the fans will feel MJs presence also.

imo

Gentle you just don't understand how isolated Neverland really is, unlike Graceland which is in a large city. There is nothing around Neverland, no public bathrooms, no gas stations and no place to buy food or drinks.

[GentleBreeze]

Who will pay for the 24/7 security?

The administrators that are over Neverland will pay for the security.

At Graceland all the security guards are employees of Graceland. There has always been security there even when he was alive. The security guards walk the premises and they have a guard house set up right by the gate right inside of the property. The large heavy gate can only be opened if they are authorized to pass through the gates and then the gate is shut once they enter and opened when they leave and closed again. A lot of them have past law enforcement experience.

imo

[Firehead11]

Don't presume to know what I enjoy or not.

I think he was a gifted entertainer. I grew up listening to the Jackson5 and owned just about every record, CD and video ever made by Michael Jackson. I did see him in concert.

That doesn't change my opinion on his private life. To me, they are two separate and distinct things.


Ok then. And with that response, I will no longer post to you or reply. Have a good day.

[Unperson1984]

The administrators that are over Neverland will pay for the security.

At Graceland all the security guards are employees of Graceland. There has always been security there even when he was alive. The security guards walk the premises and they have a guard house set up right by the gate right inside of the property. The large heavy gate can only be opened if they are authorized to pass through the gates and then the gate is shut once they enter and opened when they leave and closed again. A lot of them have past law enforcement experience.

imo

So you are linking MJ's burial with turning Neverland into a tourist attraction...right?

[GentleBreeze]

Gentle you just don't understand how isolated Neverland really is, unlike Graceland which is in a large city. There is nothing around Neverland, no public bathrooms, no gas stations and no place to buy food or drinks.

Graceland was in a very quiet residential area when Elvis died and the city of Memphis does not have a congestion problem with the Graceland tour vans constantly entering and exiting the grounds. If they can maintain flow in a city then a rural area certainly can imo.

Building bathrooms on a 2700 acre estate would be a snap to do, if necessary.

The tours are usually not that long. They will be scheduled tours lasting maybe an hour or two then they will be returning to their drop off destination. The tour guide walks with you through the entire tour and tells you loads of information when they enter each viewing room. There will be no need for gas as they will not arrive in their own vehicle.

They will go wherever they have to in order to buy tickets and wait to load the tour vans. If people have to travel an hour or more to get there, they will come imo.

As for as drink. Usually any site that is set up this way does not allow food and drink once on the premises. There are highly collectibles in some of these places and they want to keep everything pristine and original.

They do not even let them take cameras that flash inside the estate as that can damage the artwork, photographs, and even the very very expensive drapes that are hung. But outside you can take all the photos you want. I have one of me sitting in Elvis' pink buggy that was used in one of his movies.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

So you are linking MJ's burial with turning Neverland into a tourist attraction...right?

I don't know what other people would call it but for myself I wasn't some tourist when I have visited Graceland. I went to Graceland because I have always loved Elvis's amazing talent and was and still am an ardent fan. It is a spiritual feeling for me when we go there. It is so peaceful, respectful and serene and the presence of Elvis is everywhere there to me. I have even gone to see his boyhood home in Tupelo.

I think most who come are those who feel an attachment to the person.

imo

[KatieLady]

Gentle you just don't understand how isolated Neverland really is, unlike Graceland which is in a large city. There is nothing around Neverland, no public bathrooms, no gas stations and no place to buy food or drinks.

By the replies to you Unperson IMO people just don't understand what it is like there. You are correct....it is not a city...it is very rural with many country roads, no services, and hardly any motels.

I seriously doubt that the people in the city would ever vote to expand the services. They like their town the way it is IMO

I guess unless people have been there they just won't understand. *sigh*

[Unperson1984]

Graceland was in a very quiet residential area when Elvis died and the city of Memphis does not have a congestion problem with the Graceland tour vans constantly entering and exiting the grounds. If they can maintain flow in a city then a rural area certainly can imo.

Building bathrooms on a 2700 acre estate would be a snap to do, if necessary.

The tours are usually not that long. They will be scheduled tours lasting maybe an hour or two then they will be returning to their drop off destination. The tour guide walks with you through the entire tour and tells you loads of information when they enter each viewing room. There will be no need for gas as they will not arrive in their own vehicle.

They will go wherever they have to in order to buy tickets and wait to load the tour vans. If people have to travel an hour or more to get there, they will come imo.

As for as drink. Usually any site that is set up this way does not allow food and drink once on the premises. There are highly collectibles in some of these places and they want to keep everything pristine and original.

They do not even let them take cameras that flash inside the estate as that can damage the artwork, photographs, and even the very very expensive drapes that are hung. But outside you can take all the photos you want. I have one of me sitting in Elvis' pink buggy that was used in one of his movies.

imo

You can't open a tourist attraction with no food or water available for 20 miles, at least not in California. It gets very hot during the summer.

Graceland was always in a large city, Neverland is in a rural area miles away from a city. People can visit Graceland in a morning, Neverland would require hours of travel for a 1 1/2 hour tour. I live just south of LAX and Neverland is a 3 hour drive from here.

Building bathrooms will be a problem if there are no sewage lines. A private home can use a septic tank, but not a tourist attraction.

As far as saying "they will come," they didn't come for the memorial in anything like the number predicted. To turn Neverland into a tourist attraction, and run it as same, will cost a huge up front cash outlay. So if the Jacksons were to buy out the co-owner, how could they afford everything needed to convert Neverland into a tourist attraction and pay employees?

When all is said and done, it's up to the politicians and people who live in the area. As it should be.

[GentleBreeze]

You can't open a tourist attraction with no food or water available for 20 miles, at least not in California. It gets very hot during the summer.

Graceland was always in a large city, Neverland is in a rural area miles away from a city. People can visit Graceland in a morning, Neverland would require hours of travel for a 1 1/2 hour tour. I live just south of LAX and Neverland is a 3 hour drive from here.

Building bathrooms will be a problem if there are no sewage lines. A private home can use a septic tank, but not a tourist attraction.

As far as saying "they will come," they didn't come for the memorial in anything like the number predicted. To turn Neverland into a tourist attraction, and run it as same, will cost a huge up front cash outlay. So if the Jacksons were to buy out the co-owner, how could they afford everything needed to convert Neverland into a tourist attraction and pay employees?

When all is said and done, it's up to the politicians and people who live in the area. As it should be.

They were told for days, everyday, NOT to come if they did not have a ticket and wristband.

So it is only 20 miles from where there is food, lodging and other necessities? That isn't far at all. By the way some talked I thought the closest town was a hundred miles away or some far distance.

Well imo I think a little town who is probably suffering from the economy would love the opportunity to expand with businesses and jobs.

Because MJ estate is going to be huge. Money will not be a problem.

MJ was already getting 85 million a year. Now that he is deceased and no longer spending that amount saved will continue to accumulate along with the other income that is pouring in everyday.

imo

[KatieLady]

They were told for days, everyday, NOT to come if they did not have a ticket and wristband.

So it is only 20 miles from where there is food, lodging and other necessities? That isn't far at all. By the way some talked I thought the closest town was a hundred miles away or some far distance.

Well imo I think a little town who is probably suffering from the economy would love the opportunity to expand with businesses and jobs.Because MJ estate is going to be huge. Money will not be a problem.

MJ was already getting 85 million a year. Now that he is deceased and no longer spending that amount saved will continue to accumulate along with the other income that is pouring in everyday.

imo

You would be wrong IMO

Why will you not believe the people that live in California? Have you been to the area before?

[GentleBreeze]

You would be wrong IMO

Why will you not believe the people that live in California? Have you been to the area before?

I have not heard from all of those who live right around Neverland. Of course the ranchers with their big spreads don't want this but that is only one group of people and a small few here have voiced their opinions but no I have not heard from all the people that live there.

There have been posters here who are from that area and said they would like to see Neverland open so it could bring in jobs because the economy in CA is in such dire straights.

No I haven't been there before but I am from an area that has many large acreage farms/ranches that are on rural roads. And then I see that it becomes more and more populated as time goes by.

imo

[Unperson1984]

I have not heard from all of those who live right around Neverland. Of course the ranchers with their big spreads don't want this but that is only one group of people and a small few here have voiced their opinions but no I have not heard from all the people that live there.

There have been posters here who are from that area and said they would like to see Neverland open so it could bring in jobs because the economy in CA is in such dire straights.

No I haven't been there before but I am from an area that has many large acreage farms/ranches that are on rural roads. And then I see that it becomes more and more populated as time goes by.

imo

Those ranchers, and the vineyard owners, and the people who just live there for the peace and quiet, make large political donations every election. They don't want a tourist attraction in their quiet area.

[Unperson1984]

They were told for days, everyday, NOT to come if they did not have a ticket and wristband.

So it is only 20 miles from where there is food, lodging and other necessities? That isn't far at all. By the way some talked I thought the closest town was a hundred miles away or some far distance.

Well imo I think a little town who is probably suffering from the economy would love the opportunity to expand with businesses and jobs.

Because MJ estate is going to be huge. Money will not be a problem.

MJ was already getting 85 million a year. Now that he is deceased and no longer spending that amount saved will continue to accumulate along with the other income that is pouring in everyday.

imo

In California in order to get a permit to build any public facility, a plan must be submitted to the city and county regarding number of people predicted to use the facility, parking, number of bathrooms, availability of water and food, closest medical facilities...etc.

Next comes the State Environmental Impact Study. This study includes traffic, sewage and plumbing, water use, impact on agriculture, local trees and plants. Also the impact of any building or construction needed for the proposed use. Whoever is proposing the project has to pay the State for this study.

If, and in California it’s a big if, they get approval for the above permits, the State and County hold a series of public hearings to allow people living in the area to voice their opinion. Based on the hearings an election may be held to let the people vote the project up or down.

All the above takes from three to five years. I hope they will bury MJ before then.

If Walt Disney were trying to build Disneyland today, he'd never get a permit in California.

[KatieLady]

In California in order to get a permit to build any public facility, a plan must be submitted to the city and county regarding number of people predicted to use the facility, parking, number of bathrooms, availability of water and food, closest medical facilities...etc.

Next comes the State Environmental Impact Study. This study includes traffic, sewage and plumbing, water use, impact on agriculture, local trees and plants. Also the impact of any building or construction needed for the proposed use. Whoever is proposing the project has to pay the State for this study.

If, and in California it’s a big if, they get approval for the above permits, the State and County hold a series of public hearings to allow people living in the area to voice their opinion. Based on the hearings an election may be held to let the people vote the project up or down.

All the above takes from three to five years. I hope they will bury MJ before then.

If Walt Disney were trying to build Disneyland today, he'd never get a permit in California.

Couldn't agree more Un!

[ellegna]

On November 10, 2008, Jackson transferred the title to Sycamore Valley Ranch Company, LLC, and neighbors reported immediate activity on the property, including removal of the amusement rides, being trucked along the highway. Jackson still owned an unknown stake in the property, since Sycamore Valley Ranch was a joint venture between Jackson (represented by McMillan) and an affiliate of Colony Capital LLC (an investment company run by billionaire Tom Barrack)
The Santa Barbara Assessor's Office stated Jackson sold an unknown proportion of his property rights for $35 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverland_Ranch

It appears MJ had no intention returning to Neverland as early as Nov/08. IMO If he did, he would not have transferred the title or sold a portion of his property rights.
Rather than moving back to Neverland, MJ chose to rent a mansion for $100K a month.
If anyone watched LKL's tour of Neverland, the place looked deserted. No indications at all MJ was planning on returning there.

If MJ did not want to move back to Neverland 7 months ago while he was alive, why do some believe he wants Neverland to be his final resting place? :shrug:

[retiredcop]

I think some misunderstand what MJ did:

The man who controls the ranch, real estate investor Thomas Barrack, is mum about the long term plans. Barrack’s Colony Capital bought the $22 million mortgage on the property just before it went up for auction last year. It’s now owned in a joint venture with Jackson’s estate, says Barrack spokesperson Joanne Lessner.

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2009/07/neverland_the_n.html

Since Mr Jackson's part is now in control of the estate, it's possible the executors may sell it off to repay debts.

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

That would be up to the executors, but from what I have been reading, there will be no reason to sell anything of Jacksons. But I guess time will tell.

[GentleBreeze]

I posted on yesterday's thread that I used to live in Santa Maria. I visit there often and have many friends and family who still reside there. Now you have to remember that this is a semi rural community. You drive out of Santa Maria and there only a few small communities between there and Santa Barbara. Solvang residents do not want the charm of their community impacted. Lompoc is situated near to an airbase and most don't want a tourist influx. Maybe Anderson's Pea Soup place would appreciate it because it is right off the freeway. And Santa Ynez isn't really much of anything other than ranches and ag land.

These are the areas that surround Neverland. City and county officials are already talking about the pro's and con's and so far, the con's far outweigh the benefits........Add these voices to those of the local public and it seems support for the project is minimal. This could change of course, but I tend to doubt it.

But let me ask you a question. Do you believe the rights of MJ family outweigh those of people who live in this area and will be directly impacted?

Thanks for listening and for answering. My own opinion. Be well.

No, I realize that it will be up to the local county officials to decide. I just hope they weigh both sides carefully and equally.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I think some misunderstand what MJ did:

The man who controls the ranch, real estate investor Thomas Barrack, is mum about the long term plans. Barrack’s Colony Capital bought the $22 million mortgage on the property just before it went up for auction last year. It’s now owned in a joint venture with Jackson’s estate, says Barrack spokesperson Joanne Lessner.

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2009/07/neverland_the_n.html

Thanks Athena. So the administrators of the estate could pay the 22M mortgage off and it would be clear?

That shouldn't be a problem at all.

imo

[retiredcop]

Thanks Athena. So the administrators of the estate could pay the 22M mortgage off and it would be clear?

That shouldn't be a problem at all.

imo

The executors first duty is to the estate. They are probably shutting the spigots down to out flowing money. I think 22M is a tidy sum to be out flowing. We don't know for sure what shape his estate is in for sure. Not unless someone here has seen the books.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

That would be up to the executors, but from what I have been reading, there will be no reason to sell anything of Jacksons. But I guess time will tell.

The executors moved fast to take over the estate and put Katherine out. I think there must have been a reason for that since they weren't going to file the will for 30 days in the beginning as I remember it. They went ahead and filed the will one day before the funeral.

I believe that estate is in poor condition right now. Neverland does not rate on top of the financial issues.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I posted on yesterday's thread that I used to live in Santa Maria. I visit there often and have many friends and family who still reside there. Now you have to remember that this is a semi rural community. You drive out of Santa Maria and there only a few small communities between there and Santa Barbara. Solvang residents do not want the charm of their community impacted. Lompoc is situated near to an airbase and most don't want a tourist influx. Maybe Anderson's Pea Soup place would appreciate it because it is right off the freeway. And Santa Ynez isn't really much of anything other than ranches and ag land.

These are the areas that surround Neverland. City and county officials are already talking about the pro's and con's and so far, the con's far outweigh the benefits........Add these voices to those of the local public and it seems support for the project is minimal. This could change of course, but I tend to doubt it.

But let me ask you a question. Do you believe the rights of MJ family outweigh those of people who live in this area and will be directly impacted?

Thanks for listening and for answering. My own opinion. Be well.

I don't think Neverland will ever be Graceland West. I sure hope it won't anyway. One of the reasons to me would be Jermaine and Joe who are pushing the issue haven't figured out how tight that estate is. When they figure out the money won't go into their pockets, I believe it will be forgotten. Same with the rest of the family..

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

The executors moved fast to take over the estate and put Katherine out. I think there must have been a reason for that since they weren't going to file the will for 30 days in the beginning as I remember it. They went ahead and filed the will one day before the funeral.

I believe that estate is in poor condition right now. Neverland does not rate on top of the financial issues.

in my opinion

I don't know about what shape the estate is in. I do know what has been estimated but that is just media spinning away. Apparently the sony catalog is in the Michael Jackson Family Trust. It cannot be seized by anyone, however the percentage of interest that it earns can. Since his death, that catalog has gained in value easily. Let us not forget about the RUMOR that there are at least 100 unreleased songs by Jackson, all for his children.

I don't remember the executors jumping on anything. I rather remember that it took over a week for a will to surface and a day or two after that to be filed.

[disneyfreak]

From today's Santa Barbara Independent.

Santa Ynez Plan Gets Okay
Neverland Neighbors Take Stand for Valley’s Future

By Cathy Murillo

Thursday, July 23, 2009

T he Santa Ynez Valley Community Plan has been a decade in the making. It wasn’t easy figuring out how to prevent the area from losing its rural character while also providing for urban uses such as housing, commerce, schools, and recreation. Mind-numbingly detailed, the land-use plan is the basis for solving several pressing issues — the impact of the winery boom, the daily dangers of driving Highway 246, and a painful lack of low-income housing. Presenting a new challenge is the fate of Michael Jackson’s Neverland Ranch.

Neighbors of the late pop star have formed a group called Never! to oppose any tourist-related development at the 2,700-acre site. The community plan could give them the ammunition they need; for instance, a review of Los Olivos’ infrastructure reveals it has no sewer system and is located miles from a fire station. Last week, the County Planning Commission approved the plan, along with an Environmental Impact Report. The whole package will be heard by the Board of Supervisors in the fall.

Solvang resident C.J. Jackson is a former county planning commissioner whose family owns the Alisal Ranch. Jackson said Highway 246 can be nightmarish for residents just trying to go to the post office. “I feel the burden five times a day,” he said, referring to rush hour periods and times when the high school lets out. People end up trying to avoid 246. “Traffic spills over into the residential periphery. It’s a widely shared concern in the community.”

Agreeing with Jackson about traffic is Lansing Duncan, also a former county planning commissioner. The two men are at odds about growth, but both are hoping the Community Plan will ease traffic dangers. Duncan is especially concerned about residents trying to cross Highway 154 at various junctures. “There are people wine-tasting and trucks with trailers. You might even come across a pack of bicyclists,” Duncan said. “There are different conflicts, some are moving at high speed, others are slow.”

Jackson and Duncan also agree that Neverland Ranch should remain an agricultural operation — even with its large residence — and not become a tourist attraction now that Michael Jackson has died. Duncan said he is hearing “doublespeak” from the current owner as to the property’s final disposition. It was this uncertainty about the ranch that lead to the formation of Never! Bob Field, former chair of the Valley Planning Advisory Committee, is leading the charge for the group.http://www.independent.com/news/2009/jul/23/santa-ynez-plan-gets-okay/

[Unperson1984]

From today's Santa Barbara Independent.



http://www.independent.com/news/2009/jul/23/santa-ynez-plan-gets-okay/

Thanks Disneyfreak. I was pretty sure that area still uses septic tanks.

[tv4me]

Well, this has been what i've been trying to say, it wouldn't surprise me if some big company or rich businessman bought up the surrounding private ranches and had hotels, reststops and so forth built so Neverland could become open to the public. People disagree with me, but I think its a win win situation. With CA's rotten economy, I can see this happening. There's already a move to lessen restrictions for large companies to keep them from leaving California.

[Unperson1984]

Well, this has been what i've been trying to say, it wouldn't surprise me if some big company or rich businessman bought up the surrounding private ranches and had hotels, reststops and so forth built so Neverland could become open to the public. People disagree with me, but I think its a win win situation. With CA's rotten economy, I can see this happening. There's already a move to lessen restrictions for large companies to keep them from leaving California.

I'm not sure Neverland could earn enough money to make a profit on that large an investment.

[Unperson1984]

I think the residents would fight it tooth and nail - but I have no doubt it would make money if turned into a "Graceland". I believe MJ's fans would come from around the world. JMO

I don't know Athena, the crowds that were predicted to flock to LA after MJs death didn't really materialize.

[Unperson1984]

They were told to stay away from Staples Center but they were there:

"The magnitude of this event is 10 to 100 times of any other event we've had," said John Kelly, general manager of the Holiday Inn across the street from the arena where the public memorial is to be held. Within 48 hours of Thursday's announcement that a memorial would be held at Staples Center, all 195 rooms at the hotel were booked, he said.

The throngs of visitors -- some flying into Los Angeles from as far away as France and Switzerland -- could give the local economy a $4-million boost in the form of hotel billings, rates, restaurant tabs and souvenir sales, said Jack Kyser, chief economist for the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp.

Indeed, many airline flights to Los Angeles and hotels near Staples Center were booked solid by Monday. The influx of fans of the late pop singer has had a ripple effect that has reached as far as Pasadena and Long Beach, where hotels reported an increase in bookings this weekend."

A rep from British Airways tells us there has been a "huge influx" of reservations in the last few days by people from England trying to make their way to the memorial. The rep says people are "flying as close to L.A. as they can and then taking connecting flights."

In addition to non-stop and direct flights to L.A., flights from Heathrow to San Francisco and from Heathrow to Denver are almost full.

The rep says they expect all flights -- direct and indirect -- to be sold out by the end of the day.

Do you have a link for that information? I heard that there was no significant increase in hotel bookings with the exception of those closest to the Staples Center.

I know there was a lot of early hype, but I'm not so sure about the reality.

[Unperson1984]

Oh - I am sooo sorry Unp.... I was looking at two different articles and did forget to post the links:

http://www.hotelsmag.com/articleXML/LN1001935903.html?nid=3457&rid=

http://www.tmz.com/tag/BritishAirways/

Thanks Athena, but I was hoping for something written after the fact.

The reason I asked for a link is because a friend of mine is a reporter for KNBC and he said they couldn't confirm a huge number of people coming into LA. In fact they only found a few people who had come a great distance due to MJ's death, and I saw the same few people interviewed on several of the local channels.

[disneyfreak]

More information on the views of locals towards.

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2009/07/neverland_the_n.html

Although this article is from July 1st, it features several key players in the Never! movement. (as always, bold is mine).
Retired venture capitalist Bob Field, who says his own property overlooks Barrack’s vineyard, has another suggestion for his neighbor—dismantle Neverland and take it piece by piece to Las Vegas, where Barrack’s company owns the Las Vegas Hilton and an interest in Station Casinos—a string of gambling joints aimed at local residents. “This is a small valley,” Field says. “We don’t have the roads, hospitals or airport. It will take him multiple years to develop anything here. It would cost him a fraction of that in Las Vegas. The day it opened, there would be many times the visitors.”

It also mentions the fact that Barrack's company bought the mortgage but now owns part of the property.

The man who controls the ranch, real estate investor Thomas Barrack, is mum about the long term plans. Barrack’s Colony Capital bought the $22 million mortgage on the property just before it went up for auction last year. It’s now owned in a joint venture with Jackson’s estate, says Barrack spokesperson Joanne Lessner.

[Dunlurken]

I've seen many comments/discussions about the family "fighting" over where Michael should be buried. I'd be interested to hear people's opinions.

Personally, I don't think he ever wanted to go back to Neverland, and believe he should be buried/entombed at Forest Lawn. JMO.

[sunnydale]

I don't think his body should be buried at Neverland. If anything, he could be cremated and his ashes be put somewhere there if that were his true wishes. What were his wishes (if he had any)?

[vonna]

I think he is already buried and the family just does not want to divulge the location. JMO

I can't imagine Joe precluding something from which he could possibly benefit. I don't think Michael is buried and won't be until his brain is released to the family.

[LisaM22]

I don't think his body should be buried at Neverland. If anything, he could be cremated and his ashes be put somewhere there if that were his true wishes. What were his wishes (if he had any)?

I would agree with that

[February]

For sure Michael is already buried.
God bless his soul.

[Dunlurken]

I don't understand the Jackson clan leaving MJ in a morgue all this time. While I know he is embalmed and in cold storage, that does not stop decomposition. It just slows it down. jmo

He's not in a "morgue". He's on ice. Frozen so to speak. Wait, maybe he got his wish. He always said he wanted to be frozen and come back at a later time.

Sorry, it's been a long day. He will be missed, truly.

ETA: Called cryogenics I think.

[Nic99]

Really? That's interesting. How do you know? Is their a cryogenics place around there? I thought someone had to be frozen right away after death. I thought he was being stored at Forest Lawn in cold storage in the basement for safe keeping. Do they do cryogenics there? imo

Sillywilly...... sorry just couldn't resist lol. Hope you have a sense of humour:laugh:

[Unperson1984]

The records do NOT have to be made public and I do believe MJ is already buried. JMO

Secret burial

In some very rare cases, a person will be buried without identification, even when their identity is known. In some cases of infamous or notorious figures, this is to avoid desecration of the corpse or vandalism of the site. In others it may be for exactly the opposite reason. Famous graves often become tourist attractions, or destinations of pilgrimage. To avoid this the family or friends honoring the dead might bury them in an unpublicized place, a secret location, or in a grave with a false name — or no name at all — on the marker.

Walt Disney was cremated and the ashes buried in a secret location — Forest Lawn Memorial Park Cemetery — one of many cemeteries that cater to the needs of famous dead people. Some burial sites at Forest Lawn, such as those of Humphrey Bogart and Mary Pickford, are secluded in private gated gardens, with no entry for the public. A number of tombs are also kept from the public eye. Forest Lawn's Court of Honour advertises that in some of the crypts beneath it are spots which no amount of money can buy, but individuals may be "voted in" as "Immortals." Out of respect for the privacy of the dead, no photographs taken at Forest Lawn are ever allowed to be published, and their information office usually refuses to say where famous people are buried.

http://www.deardeath.com/special_burials.htm

Walt Disney's grave is public, his ashes are buried along side his wife's, one of his daughter's and her husband.

Bogart, Pickford and a few other are in a private part of Forest Lawn Glendale, I went to a funeral in that private area two years ago. I was saddened to see the poor condition of the older graves in that area. There is a volunteer group of Hollywood historians who keep public celebrity graves in good condition, they pull weeds, clean headstones and leave flowers. Since they can't get into the private area, the celebrity graves behind the gate are overgrown with dirty headstones. I thought it was incredibly sad.

[Unperson1984]

Wow -- that is sad Unp.... do they not have kin alive who can clean it up - at least their loved one's gravesite or maybe there is no one left alive?

Bogart has two children still living. He was cremated and his brass plaque is not readable from tarnish.

Pickford likely doesn't have family still living, she was childless and buried in the same family plot is her mother brother and sister. She was Hollywood’s first super star and one of the founders of United Artists, a true part of the industry’s history. No doubt the Historical Society would like to honor her by keeping her grave in good condition.

That’s why I think MJs grave should be accessible to his fans, but secure from vandals. I can't think of anything more secure then burial in the ground, especially in a cemetery with high walls and 24/7 security.

[KatieLady]

Walt Disney's grave is public, his ashes are buried along side his wife's, one of his daughter's and her husband.

Bogart, Pickford and a few other are in a private part of Forest Lawn Glendale, I went to a funeral in that private area two years ago. I was saddened to see the poor condition of the older graves in that area. There is a volunteer group of Hollywood historians who keep public celebrity graves in good condition, they pull weeds, clean headstones and leave flowers. Since they can't get into the private area, the celebrity graves behind the gate are overgrown with dirty headstones. I thought it was incredibly sad.

You are correct

http://www.cemeteryguide.com/disney.html

[disneyfreak]

Bogart has two children still living. He was cremated and his brass plaque is not readable from tarnish.

Pickford likely doesn't have family still living, she was childless and buried in the same family plot is her mother brother and sister. She was Hollywood’s first super star and one of the founders of United Artists, a true part of the industry’s history. No doubt the Historical Society would like to honor her by keeping her grave in good condition.

That’s why I think MJs grave should be accessible to his fans, but secure from vandals. I can't think of anything more secure then burial in the ground, especially in a cemetery with high walls and 24/7 security.

One of my favorite musicians is buried there, Sam Cooke.

Forest Lawn Memorial Park remains one of the most exclusive Hollywood burial sites. The staff is tight lipped, refusing to release the whereabouts of anyone buried there, except to family members. Security cars constantly patrol the grounds.

"We don't advocate or promote any visitation out of respect for the privacy of the family," said William Martin, a spokesman for company.

Company officials wouldn't say whether Jackson's body was, or could be, tucked into one of the cemetery's locked gardens where celebrities like Humphrey Bogart, Jean Harlow and Sammy Davis Jr. are laid to rest.

If Jackson is buried in Forest Lawn, that won't stop fans and grave hunters from trying to sneak in, says Karen Fogarty, a paralegal from the San Fernando Valley area in California and an occasional celebrity grave hunter.

"It's going to keep Forest Lawn on their toes," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/07/08/celebrity.graves.jackson/

[RootBeer]

I posted this on the daily thread, and decided to also put it here.

What about the possibility of turning Neverland into a rehab facility?

Or some sort of refuge for children? (In accordance with the 20% left to Jackson for children's charities).

That is what I was thinking. Maybe a hospice?

[RootBeer]

has anyone heard where mj is buried?

[RootBeer]

Thank you for posting the above link. :wink:

[Lainey]

I have mixed feelings about Joe opening his mouth about Michael. Most of the time I wish he would just shut-up, but then again he gives us something to think/discuss between court dates.

[RootBeer]

Then there is this...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-23731366-details/Is+this+plot+Michael+Jackson's+final+resting+place/article.do

This unmarked grave is believed to be the final resting place of Michael Jackson. The star has been buried at the sprawling Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Hollywood Hills, beneath a mature pine tree and close to his grandmother, Martha Bridges, who died in 1990.

Thanks for posting the links :thumbup:

I wonder if the Jacksons have already purchased many plots in the same area for all the family members. That use to be the tradition in families years ago.

[tiptop]

Then there is this...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-23731366-details/Is+this+plot+Michael+Jackson's+final+resting+place/article.do

This unmarked grave is believed to be the final resting place of Michael Jackson. The star has been buried at the sprawling Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Hollywood Hills, beneath a mature pine tree and close to his grandmother, Martha Bridges, who died in 1990.

When I saw this pic, I recalled seeing a pic of a tree at Neverland. And it was said Michael sat under that tree to compose. Seems like Jermaine might have mentioned it too during an interview. If it's true, this sounds like the perfect resting place for Michael.

[Lidia]

I'm glad to hear he's finally been laid to rest. RIP Michael. :rose:

[RayStar]

I hope the burial site is not made public.