7/21, 7/22, 7/23, 7/24

[retiredcop]

I wasn't here much of yesterday. I am getting a little tired of the forum. Not the posters though.
I need big breaks. lol

I would really like to know in a nutshell about Neverland. Who owns it?
Mr Jackson's mother? I thought Mr Jackson only owned a small percentage and that would now go into the estate.

Thanks

[vonna]

Despite her initial bid for control, Katherine Jackson is apparently cool with whatever her son wanted to do with his dough.

Katherine's attorney says the Jackson family matriarch has no plans to contest the substance of the will Michael Jackson had drawn up in 2002. The five-page document appointed two former business associates executors of his estate and stipulated that he wanted his mom to take care of his three children.

The Jackson camp filed documents Friday inquiring whether a future objection to the executors would violate the "beat it" clause the King of Pop included in the will, which would freeze out any heir who contested his wishes.

"Despite false reports, neither Mrs. Jackson nor any of her lawyers has or will be contesting the will," legal eagle L. Londell McMillan said in a statement Monday. "Nor has she decided whether or not to raise any challenge to the appointment of the executors named in the will or whether to seek the appointment of an additional co-executor. Her top priority remains the care of her son's three children."

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b135019_michael_jacksons_mom_focused_on_kids.html

Not contesting the will does not to equate to liking the contents. Anyone who contests is out.

[retiredcop]

The decision is Katherine's. imo

I agree it's Katerine's decision. Joe, however, leads her around by the nose.

I was dumbfounded watching the LKL show with Joe and Leonard. Could any two people be any dumber?

I noticed Joe say he wasn't signing any papers to stay away from the children. I guess Ms Rowe is suppose to take him at his word. I know Ms Rowe will fight that.

Ms. Rowe knew Mr Jackson much better than his family ever did. They were friends for 30 years. She knows where the skeletons are buried. Also, she never said anything bad about Mr Jackson or anyone else for that matter. She always stood behind Mr Jackson in whatever he wanted.

I think agonizing over where Mr Jackson is going to be buried is a very mild word to use. I think they are fighting like cats and dogs.

Also, I heard the four brothers want to fufill the concert tour. They always wanted back on stage. The Jackson family want to make as much money over Mr Jackson's death as they can.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Not contesting the will does not to equate to liking the contents. Anyone who contests is out.

I think, since the executors were named by Mr Jackson in the will, contesting the executors is the same as contesting the will. I don't see how that can be separated. I don't think appointing another co-executor will work either.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I've read the will said 40% to Katherine. Is that outright or is it in a trust of some kind which cannot be touched by anyone else?

Has the will been probated?

There is a trust. No one has seen the trust documents. I would think her 40% would not be given to her outright. The principle would stay the same and she would receive payments from interest or earnings. Don't know for sure.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I believe the children's 40% will only be touched for their care. I believe the guardian will receive payments for their care only. This would be until whatever age Mr Jackson stipulated they could receive their payments directly.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Can any legal minds here tell me if Joe can contest the will as the father?
He's not inheriting so he has nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Thanks

in my opinion

[ellegna]

I think, since the executors were named by Mr Jackson in the will, contesting the executors is the same as contesting the will. I don't see how that can be separated. I don't think appointing another co-executor will work either.

in my opinion

This was discussed on NG last night

GRACE: To Brian Oxman, Jackson family confidant, host of "Insight" on newsradio KLAA. Brian, I understand that while Katherine Jackson says she`s not contesting the will, she is, in fact, planning to contest terms of the will, specifically who the executors will be.

BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY CONFIDANT: When an executor is challenged for things such as a conflict of interest or not having the best interests of an estate in their business practices, that`s not a challenge of the terms of the will. There`s no disputing the executor was named in the will, so you`re not challenging the will. What you`re saying is that in the interim period of time, an executor has developed a conflict of interest. She`s being very careful, very cautious. And yes, Nancy, this is exactly the way she should do it.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/20/ng.01.html

[GentleBreeze]

I don't think Joe Jackson leads anyone around by the nose anymore.

Those old days have long past.

Katherine will be the one in control and she knows it very well. It will be done as she says it not what Joe may or may not want.

imo

[retiredcop]

Good morning all

Whatever you may think of Joe those are his grandchildren. I don't see anything wrong with him seeing them provided it is in a setting with other family members. I also believe the articles that were printed about putting his children in show business was way overblown. As much as some of that interview came across as he really doesn't know anything .... he was adamant about saying that it was BS re: the children/show business and that they should remain kids. More than half of the articles out here are not true or exaggerated. JMO

Re: the brothers wanting to fulfill the tour -- AEG approached them to my knowledge and it can be their way of a tribute to their brother.

I believe the Jacksons are waiting to hear the status of NL before the final decision is made as to where MJ will be buried.

Hey -- I thought you weren't going to bash anyone? :tongueside:

Who am I bashing? Are you suggesting I just stop posting any opinions at all?

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

This was discussed on NG last night

GRACE: To Brian Oxman, Jackson family confidant, host of "Insight" on newsradio KLAA. Brian, I understand that while Katherine Jackson says she`s not contesting the will, she is, in fact, planning to contest terms of the will, specifically who the executors will be.

BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY CONFIDANT: When an executor is challenged for things such as a conflict of interest or not having the best interests of an estate in their business practices, that`s not a challenge of the terms of the will. There`s no disputing the executor was named in the will, so you`re not challenging the will. What you`re saying is that in the interim period of time, an executor has developed a conflict of interest. She`s being very careful, very cautious. And yes, Nancy, this is exactly the way she should do it.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/20/ng.01.html

I take what Brian Oxman says with a grain of salt.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

Of course not. I was referring to your comment about the brothers. JMO

That's how they are. Stating fact as I believe it is not bashing.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

I don't think Joe Jackson leads anyone around by the nose anymore.

Those old days have long past.

Katherine will be the one in control and she knows it very well. It will be done as she says it not what Joe may or may not want.

imo

I believe Joe Jackson will always lead her around by the nose because she allows it.

in my opinion

[tiptop]

America, the group who released "A Horse With No Name" gave permission to MJ to use their music. They said they will feel honored if MJ's recording is released. See Video in link


And industry experts say Jackson may continue to burn up the charts with a reported a stash of unreleased music that could earn his estate millions.

An unreleased Jackson song called "A Place With No Name" hits the Web.

"What we have seen happen in the last three weeks is that the albums that are out here right now are selling in amazing numbers," Jim Henke, curator of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, told "Good Morning America." "I think we are going to see amazing interest in any released Michael Jackson material that will come out in the future or a year from now on."

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/MichaelJackson/story?id=8107736&page=1

Ian Haperin writes in his book Unmasked that Michael reportedly has a large stash of not only music but some home movies he himself shot and also original artwork. Ian called it Michael's way of making sure the children are provided for in the long-term.

[vonna]

There is a trust. No one has seen the trust documents. I would think her 40% would not be given to her outright. The principle would stay the same and she would receive payments from interest or earnings. Don't know for sure.

in my opinion

I believe Michael was well aware of his father's propensity for manipulating his mother and would have taken care to see his mother was in no position to be ripped off for large sums.

[VC2]

I agree it's Katerine's decision. Joe, however, leads her around by the nose.

I was dumbfounded watching the LKL show with Joe and Leonard. Could any two people be any dumber?

I noticed Joe say he wasn't signing any papers to stay away from the children. I guess Ms Rowe is suppose to take him at his word. I know Ms Rowe will fight that.

Ms. Rowe knew Mr Jackson much better than his family ever did. They were friends for 30 years. She knows where the skeletons are buried. Also, she never said anything bad about Mr Jackson or anyone else for that matter. She always stood behind Mr Jackson in whatever he wanted.

I think agonizing over where Mr Jackson is going to be buried is a very mild word to use. I think they are fighting like cats and dogs.

Also, I heard the four brothers want to fufill the concert tour. They always wanted back on stage. The Jackson family want to make as much money over Mr Jackson's death as they can.

in my opinion

I found it interesting that Joe and Leonard Rowe were ones who said he was in such bad shape and no way could do a tour yet they were the ones suing him for not doing a tour with them!!!!!! which tells me they knew little to nothing about him or the shape he was in at the time of his death. I would keep miles away from anyone suing me especially family.

apparently he was fine at the family gathering in may tho too.

I am with athena on the tribute tour, whether aeg approached them or they approached aeg. Thing is they had been rehearsing and planning a tour anyway so it wouldn't be that hard to morph it into a tribute tour and the dates are available at the 02. It is a way for aeg to recoup some losses on the booked space, do a tribute and as much as i do believe the majority of the family lived off michael's name in some way i also believe most of them loved him too. Even Joe, he strikes me as blind as a bat about his part in abusing michael, stubborn and greedy but that doesn't mean he has/had no love for him

[retiredcop]

Did not realize it was there. Looks like you brought it over as I did not - it is not an original post and is within your quote. :confused:

C/W or the mod closed the other thread and opened a new thread bringing over posts that were put over there this morning.

in my opinion

[flipflop]

Jackson Death Probe Zeroes In on Source of Drugs

EXCLUSIVE: The investigative team heading the probe into Michael Jackson’s death conducted interviews with physicians and personnel at medical facilities in Las Vegas on Monday, a law enforcement source close to the investigation told FOXNews.com.

Lead investigators from the Los Angeles Police Department’s Robbery and Homicide Division, along with several field agents from the Los Angeles Drug Enforcement Administration office, took a day trip to Las Vegas to follow up on leads indicating that at least one drug believed to have contributed to Jackson’s sudden death on June 25 originated in Las Vegas.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534217,00.html

[VC2]

I believe Joe Jackson will always lead her around by the nose because she allows it.

in my opinion

yes, they are JW's where the woman obeys her husband and also from a different generation. I got the impression from things she said in one of the interviews she still loves her husband too. "absence makes the heart grow fonder" That does not mean she is any less of a great woman who loves her kids and her grandchildren, just it makes for a problematic situation with Joe and the estate.

Which imo is why MJ ensured that his mom might have guardianship of the children but in no way was she going to have any say in managing the estate even through her attorney.

IMO

[VC2]

I take what Brian Oxman says with a grain of salt.

in my opinion

I take it with a bushel of salt!!! This guy was supposedly MJ's lawyer then becomes the family's attorney for a while and now is hosting a radio show as his main line of work??? First of all i never believed he was MJ's attorney even though MJ may have thought so. IMO he reported everything back to the family. Secondly, he was a disaster as an attorney imo.

The reason was that lead defense attorney Thomas Mesereau Jr. fired Brian Oxman from the team.

Oxman had come to the case as Randy Jackson's lawyer from previous domestic skirmishes within the Jackson family. But he had no experience in criminal defense matters, and often slept through crucial sessions in Jackson's child molestation case.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,154573,00.html

[bkwits]

I strongly disagree that Katherine Jackson was a great woman. IMO Any mother that stands by a mans side while he beats and abuses her children is a criminal. imo I can not have ANY respect for her as a mother, as a wife or as a grandmother. imo

I agree. Although spanking was much more common and persmissable forty and fifty years ago, beatings were not. Even some public schools spanked with a paddle. Very humiliating for the child. IMO

[retiredcop]

I strongly disagree that Katherine Jackson was a great woman. IMO Any mother that stands by a mans side while he beats and abuses her children is a criminal. imo I can not have ANY respect for her as a mother, as a wife or as a grandmother. imo


I agree, and feel she would stand by again and allow Joe to do anything he wants to Mr Jackson's children. It was also said, at one time, she did her share of "spanking" her kids too.

i believe Joe is the sticking point between Ms Rowe and Katherine in the custody settlement talks.

in my opinion

[VC2]

I think Michael Jackson's will clearly spelled out who he loved....and it wasn't his brothers or his father.

?? who michael loved had nothing to do with what i was saying. i said that they loved him even though they also used him. In most dysfunctional families love can be a very complicated issue combined with anger, greed, fear, respect or lack of it.

as far as katherine goes, 40 years ago it was pretty hard to get LE even to charge abuse unless it was so severe that it resulted in numerous broken limbs. "beating" your children was considered a parents perogative :( and often people said xxx was "harsher than i would have liked but he is the parent" and things like that. Women were also in a very different place in society. The husband had the upper hand, and katherine was also a member of a religion where she would habe been shunned by all in it and her family if she divorced. I have read stories where women left their husbands and LE brought them back :cursing: where of course they were abused and punished for daring to leave. What was she meant to do? All the contracts were in joe's name, she had no income, and 9 children to raise. Obviously michael felt she did the best she could and was a wonderful mother to him

IMO

[disneyfreak]

Again I didn't see it as an original post and only noticed it after you pointed it out and so my response was based on that observation. I didn't put it here and didn't remove it either and when I logged in the only post I saw was retired cops so don't know what happened then and no need for you to yell. :shrug:
All one needs to do is hit the little arrow next to the quoted post. It will take you to the original post. In this case, your quoted post was from the old thread a few hours earlier. Maybe someone split them off?

[retiredcop]

Thousands and thousands of women managed to raise their children 40-even 50 years ago without their fathers. Yes, it was difficult. It still is. That's what separates the "great mothers" from the "not so much" ones.


imo

She loved Joe more than her own children back in the day. Now she loves him more than her grandkids. If not, she would go along with what is needed to keep them away from Joe legally. History repeating itself.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

JMO

A will does not always define who one loves. For instance, I love my sister, but would not leave her a single penny in my will. She would blow through it at the Bingo hall or casino.

It's possible the 40% left to Katherine is discretionary funds for her to help the brothers/sisters and raise his children.

IMO, MJ was not totally oblivious to the fact his career may not have been without the Jackson 5. That included his brothers.

I believe the only discretionary money she will have to funnel to Joe and the siblings will be what she receives from the 40% in payments for herself. The rest, principle, is to revert to the children when she dies. I believe the trust is tied up so she can't spend the entire 40% on everyone else and burn out what is to revert to the children. I don't think Mr Jackson had any intention at all to support the entire Jackson clan.

Mr Jackson was the Jackson 5. Without him there would have been no Jackson 5. The brothers were incidental and were lucky enough to tag along. I don't believe he ever needed them.

in my opinion

[retiredcop]

But yet, MJ had no hard feelings towards his mother regarding this. jmo

This hits close to home. My husband was an abused child and his mother did not do much to stop it except maybe get between it to keep it from elavating. But yet, my husband doesn't think his mom did anything wrong by not going to the authorities. This was 40 years ago.

I don't find that unusual. Some children grow up excusing a parent's responsibility in the abuse and some don't. Some will only blame the one parent who actually did the physical abusing and some will blame both. Mr. Jackson was one who excused his mother.

in my opinion

[Unperson1984]

Jackson Family Agonizing over Michael’s Final Resting Place

By Sara Hammel and Champ Clark

Originally posted Monday July 20, 2009 07:45 PM EDT

With Michael Jackson temporarily interred at Forest Lawn Memorial-Park and Mortuary in Los Angeles, his family is wrestling with a painful decision: Where will the King of Pop finally be laid to rest?

A source close to the Jackson family says, "They [still] haven't decided," but adds that the singer's parents and siblings might be one step closer to an agreement.

"Katherine is still opposed to Michael being buried at Neverland, but would relent if it could be arranged for Michael's children to gain ownership of the property," the source explains. "If they could have complete ownership, Katherine would approve."

http://www.people.com/people/package/article/0,,20287787_20292508,00.html

I imagine the only way the children could have complete ownership would be to buy out Colony's share. A questionable investment at best.

[daniel green]

snipped

Also, I heard the four brothers want to fufill the concert tour. They always wanted back on stage. The Jackson family want to make as much money over Mr Jackson's death as they can.

in my opinion

Yep. I agree completely.

It is unseemly.

But they love being in the headlines and being interviewed, as well.

[daniel green]

As much as some of that interview came across as he really doesn't know anything .... he was adamant about saying that it was BS re: the children/show business and that they should remain kids. More than half of the articles out here are not true or exaggerated. JMO

snipped

Good morning, Athena!

It was obviously the first thing Joe Jackson thought. The first interview was to plug the new album/lable and the second to talk about the children's talent.

How "it came across" is because he said it. No way to put that toothpaste back in the tube.

[retiredcop]

Watching Joe Jackson on LKL, he seemed to be out of it at times. I wonder how he feels to be so completely left out of everything when he thought, right after Mr Jackson died, he would be completely in charge of everything including the estate. Now comes talk there will be supervised visits with Mr Jackson's children and it will probably be an impartial person doing the supervising and not a member of the family.
It also seems he will legally have to give up all rights to his grandchildren too.

He sure did get the wind knocked out of his sails. Kudos to the children's parents, Mr Jackson and Ms Rowe.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

This was discussed on NG last night

GRACE: To Brian Oxman, Jackson family confidant, host of "Insight" on newsradio KLAA. Brian, I understand that while Katherine Jackson says she`s not contesting the will, she is, in fact, planning to contest terms of the will, specifically who the executors will be.

BRIAN OXMAN, JACKSON FAMILY CONFIDANT: When an executor is challenged for things such as a conflict of interest or not having the best interests of an estate in their business practices, that`s not a challenge of the terms of the will. There`s no disputing the executor was named in the will, so you`re not challenging the will. What you`re saying is that in the interim period of time, an executor has developed a conflict of interest. She`s being very careful, very cautious. And yes, Nancy, this is exactly the way she should do it.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/20/ng.01.html


No joke. She IS contesting the will. :rolleyes: She can call it what she wants, but she in contesting MJ's will/choices.

Just like Joe has no plans to make the children go in the biz, "at the moment." And, if THEY want to, while then, it's their choice. :rolleyes:

Poor MJ.

One of the only interviews I have watched was on Keith Olbermann with Posner (I think that is his name) who writes for the Daily Beast. He said that during the trial he was in the men's room one day and MJ came in--or his security did--to clear it. Outside the rest room, his father was kept away from MJ, as per his wishes.

I can only imagine what poor MJ would be thinking/feeling if he were witnessing his father close to his children and with visions of a Jackson 3 in his head.

[KatieLady]

Watching Joe Jackson on LKL, he seemed to be out of it at times. I wonder how he feels to be so completely left out of everything when he thought, right after Mr Jackson died, he would be completely in charge of everything including the estate. Now comes talk there will be supervised visits with Mr Jackson's children and it will probably be an impartial person doing the supervising and not a member of the family.
It also seems he will legally have to give up all rights to his grandchildren too.

He sure did get the wind knocked out of his sails. Kudos to the children's parents, Mr Jackson and Ms Rowe.

in my opinion

My favorite was when he went digging in his pocket for his phone :rolleyes:

[Unperson1984]

Watching Joe Jackson on LKL, he seemed to be out of it at times. I wonder how he feels to be so completely left out of everything when he thought, right after Mr Jackson died, he would be completely in charge of everything including the estate. Now comes talk there will be supervised visits with Mr Jackson's children and it will probably be an impartial person doing the supervising and not a member of the family.
It also seems he will legally have to give up all rights to his grandchildren too.

He sure did get the wind knocked out of his sails. Kudos to the children's parents, Mr Jackson and Ms Rowe.

in my opinion

Don't be too sure. I can't imagine any Family Court Judge ordering a couple married for sixty years to separate, especially considering Joe Jackson was never charged or investigated for child abuse.

[retiredcop]

Don't be too sure. I can't imagine any Family Court Judge ordering a couple married for sixty years to separate, especially considering Joe Jackson was never charged or investigated for child abuse.

Maybe not, but he can sure order supervised visits with the children and I didn't say anything about seperation. Joe lives in Vegas anyway, or so he says.


in my opinion

[retiredcop]

My favorite was when he went digging in his pocket for his phone :rolleyes:

Is that what he was digging for? I didn't know for sure what it was.:wink:

in my opinion

[KatieLady]

Is that what he was digging for? I didn't know for sure what it was.:wink:

in my opinion

That is what it looked like to me IMO

[Unperson1984]

Maybe not, but he can sure order supervised visits with the children and I didn't say anything about seperation. Joe lives in Vegas anyway, or so he says.


in my opinion

I'm just afraid he won't stay in Vegas. He's back now because he smells money and it appears his best chance for getting some of it is through Katherine.

IMO

[retiredcop]

I'm just afraid he won't stay in Vegas. He's back now because he smells money and it appears his best chance for getting some of it is through Katherine.

IMO

I wonder if he is staying at the Encino house around those children?:ohmy:

in my opinion

[Unperson1984]

I wonder if he is staying at the Encino house around those children?:ohmy:

in my opinion

Yes he is.

[retiredcop]

Yes he is.

I would say Mr Jackson must be turning over in his grave, but they haven't buried him yet!

in my opinion

[RootBeer]

Is that what he was digging for? I didn't know for sure what it was.:wink:

in my opinion

I wonder if someone texted him and told him to sit up straight and stop slurring his words. lol

[RootBeer]

Speaking of which, taking the children to service was just another way of dishonoring their father's wishes--as MJ got away from that religion and services when he broke off from his family. Furthermore, having the children available to photogs is another such dishonoring of their late son's wishes.

I think MJ must of known that by leaving his Mom in charge of his kids, that would happen (JW services).

[daniel green]

JJ's Interview:

http://www.charter.net/video/?vendid=18&vendkey=cnn_showbiz%2F2009%2F07%2F21%2Flkl.joe.jac kson.michaels.death.cnn&_LT=HOME_LARSDCCLM_UNEWS

BLECH. That just made me sick.

Janet is fine, she is going on doing what she's supposed to do, "being Janet Jackson."

Kids are fine.

The whole world is "grieving behind our loss."

It's all about being a celeb for him. All about the biz.

[daniel green]

I think it speaks volumes at a screeching level that Joe found out from fans about his son's death. And that he kept up about his son's life from fans. His son made sure to be away from him and to keep his children from him.

[KatieLady]

Funny, I thought he was just scratching.

in my opinion

It looked to me like he took something out of his pants pocket and then looked/read it. I was thinking "didn't someone tell him to turn his phone off before going on air"?

[RootBeer]

When my dog died in the middle of winter, right after a blizzard, I was beside myself. My husband attempted to dig a grave, but it was near impossible. He went a rented a little back hoe thingy....because I was appalled by my husbands first suggestion that we buy another freezer and store him till spring time. My dog needed to be buried that day!

It's a sad turn of affairs when I respected my dog more than a mother respects her own son. imo

We have had all our dogs cremated. I think that is the best way to go, pet or human. jmo

[retiredcop]

Well, we knew this was coming................

"Jackson Family Disputes 2002 Will; Denies Abuse Allegations"

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2009/07/21/jackson-family-challenges-2002-will-denies-abuse-accusations/

From the link:

snipped

As Rock Daily reported earlier, Branca and McClain are moving quickly to secure deals for Jackson’s This Is It rehearsal footage and other music projects while the demand for Jackson’s music is still hot.


Thank goodness the executors are in the mix to tie up the money for anything being planned (for the estate).

in my opinion

[ish]

Yep. I agree completely.

It is unseemly.

But they love being in the headlines and being interviewed, as well.

Sadly if they want to make money and big money, now is the time. They (and not all of the family, but a lot of them) are pushing the Michael was murdered, where will he be buried, whose children are they, angles to keep flaming the public interest in this story. Without the interest in Michael this whole circus dies and the money only trickles in, not gushes the way it is doing now. When the autopsy report is released, if it shows Michael was merely a drug addicted, 50 yr old, public interest will wane, but if the "Michael was murdered" conspiracy has taken flight by then, money will be coming steady for years.

[daniel green]

Yeah...well according to Michael Jackson's own statements she was there enough to know what Joe was like and witnessed him more than once abusing his children. She never picked up the phone and called police, she never got a restraining order, she never divorced him.

A bit harsh? I think not.


Totally agree with you. Just imagine if this kind of parenting were being discussed on the Caylee board or something.

The truth is an absolute defense.

Lots of other bad parenting as re taking the children out of school, etc.

[retiredcop]

---------------------

i thought he had gas.

LKL must have thought Joe was sick the way he was moving around. He asked Joe if he was OK and went to break.

in my opinion

[ish]

I'm just afraid he won't stay in Vegas. He's back now because he smells money and it appears his best chance for getting some of it is through Katherine.

IMO

I'm sure Katerine has been funneling money to Joe for years, she certainly seems to enjoy the good life on MJ's dime and I'll bet she figures Joe deserves it too. He has made a career off of being Michael Jackson's father, i'm sure he gets lots of freebies that way. It's worth the publicity to have him around and about in Las Vegas, I'm sure they comp him a nice suite for as long as he wants.

[Unperson1984]

From the link:

snipped

As Rock Daily reported earlier, Branca and McClain are moving quickly to secure deals for Jackson’s This Is It rehearsal footage and other music projects while the demand for Jackson’s music is still hot.


Thank goodness the executors are in the mix to tie up the money for anything being planned (for the estate).

in my opinion

IIRC, Branca showed the Court a notarized agreement with MJ which was signed about 10 days before the death. That will make a challenge of the Executors very difficult. Perhaps KJ could claim a conflict of interest evolved over 7 years, but not over 10 days. IMO

[retiredcop]

IIRC, Branca showed the Court a notarized agreement with MJ which was signed about 10 days before the death. That will make a challenge of the Executors very difficult. Perhaps KJ could claim a conflict of interest evolved over 7 years, but not over 10 days. IMO

I forgot about that. Good point.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

I thought you claimed a minute ago she intervened?

Now you're excusing it as "Black Culture"

It was WRONG...she knew it was WRONG and she ALLOWED it to continue.

She's no "great mother"

imo

I can't believe the lengths some are willing to go to excuse child abuse. Scary !!!!!!!!!!


OMG, I cannot believe my eyes, that anyone would allege that beating children is part of ANY culture. :cursing: How very, very offensive.

[daniel green]

From what I recall from the movie she did intervene; snipped

It's a MOVIE.

[Unperson1984]

I didn't know Branca did that. Glad to hear it, though. Sounds like Branca was on top of the business aspects for MJ.

If MJ validated the Branca business arrangement 10 days before he died, sounds pretty valid to me.

Branca is a very smart entertainment attorney and well respected. The Jacksons' should be happy he will be handling MJ's estate. When Branca was his attorney MJ was a wealthy man. IMO

[daniel green]

Well, we knew this was coming................

"Jackson Family Disputes 2002 Will; Denies Abuse Allegations"

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2009/07/21/jackson-family-challenges-2002-will-denies-abuse-accusations/

But, of course.

What an ugly mess.

[retiredcop]

Katherine is receiving some bad advice to challenge anything about that will. I believe she is being pushed to do so by Joe and the siblings.

She is being very careful to go before a judge and ask if she can challenge the executor choice and not be disinherited. I just can't see a judge answering that in one way or another.

If the challenge isn't filed in his court, how can he rule?

I believe she is doing that this coming Friday.

in my opinion

[daniel green]

Joe’s denials that he ever beat his son have been repeatedly contradicted by Michael’s own words, including those in Michael’s autobiography Moonwalk, in which he wrote of his father, “He would beat you… he would hit me so hard.” It’s pretty clear that Michael hadn’t wanted Joe in his life for many years. Joe downplayed this, and batted away King’s questions about whether Joe saw his grandchildren regularly. “Well, I live in Las Vegas and they live in L.A.,” he said. Yeah, boy, there’s a vast geographical distance, isn’t there?

http://watching-tv.ew.com/2009/07/21/michael-jackson-joe-jackson-larry-king-cnn/

[kjt200]

It's a MOVIE.

Thank you for stating the obvious. I find it amazing that anyone would purport to use a MOVIE as some kind of factual documentation. Using this logic, ET really existed, Snow White was poisoned by an evil queen and Joey Buttafucco was a great man (depending upon which long island lolita movie you actually watched.)

Geez, is there no end to the hero worship and justifications. I'll say it for the 3,493 time...............................An honest appraisal of the life and times of Michael Jackson does not take anything away from his talent.

Oh, and by the bye....................Did anyone catch that Rowe guy on LK last time basically verifying that Michael Jackson was a drug addict?

My own opinion of course. Thanks for listening. Be well.

[who_is_it]

"Studios Scramble to Bring Jackson's "This is It" Rehearsals to Theatres"

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2009/07/21/studios-scramble-to-bring-jackson-this-is-it-rehearsals-to-theaters/

I always thought it would be good if they make make a movie or documentary with the rehearsal material: a movie. A tribute show with other singers wouldn't be good imo... because everybody wanted to see Michael -- not other artists performing his songs. Like Madonna said to the MJ impersonator: "Let's give it up."

[daniel green]

I just watched a snippet from the LKL interview. What on earth?????? Joe Jackson is saying that beatings started with the slaves???? Huh???????? :w00t:

[who_is_it]

Well, we knew this was coming................

"Jackson Family Disputes 2002 Will; Denies Abuse Allegations"

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2009/07/21/jackson-family-challenges-2002-will-denies-abuse-accusations/

I still can't imagine they would be so dumb to challenge the will.

[retiredcop]

I always thought it would be good if they make make a movie or documentary with the rehearsal material: a movie. A tribute show with other singers wouldn't be good imo... because everybody wanted to see Michael -- not other artists performing his songs. Like Madonna said to the MJ impersonator: "Let's give it up."

I agree with you as long as a big percentage of the profits goes to the estate.

in my opinion

[who_is_it]

Katherine is receiving some bad advice to challenge anything about that will. I believe she is being pushed to do so by Joe and the siblings.

She is being very careful to go before a judge and ask if she can challenge the executor choice and not be disinherited. I just can't see a judge answering that in one way or another.

If the challenge isn't filed in his court, how can he rule?

I believe she is doing that this coming Friday.

in my opinion

Either she's a victim of greedy lawyers... or there's Joe (and his record company) behind. Michael's musical legacy is in better hands with the entertainment attorney imo, the unreleased songs should be published by Sony imo. That would be Michael's wish, too. Michael was only interested in professional work.

[crazymama]

Hi, I just joined and am winging it, on posting knowhow
anyway I couldn't find the conspiracy line, so I am putting my
thoughts here, beforI forget what I want to say, and this is just my
own supposing,my own theory, not well thought out, but.

Is Dr. Klein still being investigated? He could be a manipulator. Debbie worked with that Dr. Could the manipulating of Jackson be furthered and include Debbie.
I have a relative that is JW. I swear they get dressed in the dark.
Very naive upbringing. I don't know what MJ's education was.But
anyway, throw in some drugs(prescription included) and i could see him manipulated.
ok, this is just my opinions and i am crazy.

[daniel green]

UGH. Just watching the interview on youtube and Joe Jackon says, in reply to how he feels about the death of his son, that he misses "Michael Jackson, who was an international star in the world."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_QwC6-603E

[who_is_it]

I agree with you as long as a big percentage of the profits goes to the estate.

in my opinion

Imo AEG also deserves to profit. They have enough losses. I also had the impression Michael FINALLY got his **** together when he was working for them. All his attempts during the years before failed. There will be enough profit left for the family imo (record sales etc.).

[who_is_it]

UGH. Just watching the interview on youtube and Joe Jackon says, in reply to how he feels about the death of his son, that he misses "Michael Jackson, who was an international star in the world."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_QwC6-603E

Shortly after his death he said on the red carpet of an awards show "We lost an international superstar" (not at all: "I've lost my son.") He promoted his record label and said he "feels great"!!!

[who_is_it]

Hi, I just joined and am winging it, on posting knowhow
anyway I couldn't find the conspiracy line, so I am putting my
thoughts here, beforI forget what I want to say, and this is just my
own supposing,my own theory, not well thought out, but.

Is Dr. Klein still being investigated? He could be a manipulator. Debbie worked with that Dr. Could the manipulating of Jackson be furthered and include Debbie.
I have a relative that is JW. I swear they get dressed in the dark.
Very naive upbringing. I don't know what MJ's education was.But
anyway, throw in some drugs(prescription included) and i could see him manipulated.
ok, this is just my opinions and i am crazy.

Allegedly Dr. Klein isn't investigated anymore. According to TMZ his lawyer issued a statement.

[daniel green]

As someone said upthread, this guy, Rowe, sure does agree that MJ was using drugs and was in terrible shape and very thin. In fact, he says that MJ was having problems, "mentally." And he says, "we all know that MJ was addicted."

ibid, youtube link I just posted.

[daniel green]

Shortly after his death he said on the red carpet of an awards show "We lost an international superstar" (not at all: "I've lost my son.") He promoted his record label and said he "feels great"!!!

How sick.

Very sick.

[retiredcop]

-------------

i guess i can say the same thing back to u.....eh?


Does anyone know if the court hearing is still on for Monday? TIA

Last I heard there is both a custody hearing and a hearing on the will August 3.

[Firehead11]

I guess this entire thread is soon to be shut down. Racist? OMG. Did you bother to google anything with upbringing & beatings in ANY culture?

Racism?

http://www.nospank.net/n-i93.htm
Section 43 of the Criminal Code of Canada states: "Every schoolteacher, parent or person standing in the place of a parent is justified in using force by way of correction toward a pupil or child . . . who is under his care, if the force does not exceed what is reasonable under the circumstances."

http://www.corpun.com/rules.htm
very informative

For one lousy day this thread moved nicely. I wonder what changed in that one day. Maybe Coldwater should look at the personal attacks that are happening here.

[retiredcop]

Shortly after his death he said on the red carpet of an awards show "We lost an international superstar" (not at all: "I've lost my son.") He promoted his record label and said he "feels great"!!!

Wasn't that two days after his son died? He was so happy and acting excited thinking he was going to have that estate to himself.

in my opinion

[crazymama]

Allegedly Dr. Klein isn't investigated anymore. According to TMZ his lawyer issued a statement.
-----------------
Oh ok. But that is Dr. Klein's lawyer saying he isn't being
investigated anymore, not the police. So my theory still
could work. Separated and divorced parents use kids as
a pawn lots of times.

[Nic99]

At least use the correct wording I used "beating children" not "child abuse" and you have taken my posts that I made entirely out of context and they were not racist as you claim. I supplied documentation written by a doctor and Bill Cosby and I hardly think they are racist. JMO

Beating children was a part of African American culture. It is just the way it was. Don't know if anyone has ever read Bill Cosby's book but he talks about this and Joe Jackson was no different and he thought what he was doing was OK. In his mind he was keeping his boys off the street, out of gangs and out of trouble. It was actually his way of "protecting" them and this is the very reason he comes across as he does. He doesn't think he did anything wrong. As African Americans became more educated; this has been on the decline. JMO

Above all, they counsel, spare the rod. “Many black parents use physical punishment—not just spanking, but also hitting, slapping, and beating kids with objects,” they report. Indeed, “many black parents have told us that physical punishment is part of black culture.” But, Cosby and Poussaint warn, “when they beat their kids they are sending a message that it is okay to use violence to resolve conflicts,” rather than helping them develop self-control and a sense of right and wrong. Too often, physical punishment turns into child abuse; too often, parents (or caregivers, especially the mother’s boyfriend) “beat their kids, not to discipline them, but to exorcise their own demons. . . . They take their anger out on the child,” who “serves as a ‘whupping’ object for peevish adults. . . . These beatings often produce angry children who treat others as violently as they have been treated.” The prisons are bursting with grown-up abused children.

http://www.rightsidenews.com/200807201496/culture-wars/the-great-african-american-awakening.html

Yup, thank goodness times have since changed. I mean it wasn't that long ago corporal punishment was dished out to kids in school. You would be accused of child abuse or gbh, etc, if that happened these days. It is an angry circle which can be difficult to break, so, I am glad things are different now and our children are protected.

[vonna]

Can any legal minds here tell me if Joe can contest the will as the father?
He's not inheriting so he has nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Thanks

in my opinion

I don't think he's dumb enough to do that!

[Nic99]

I don't think he's dumb enough to do that!

I think he will settle with manipulating Katherine to his advantage imo

[VC2]

When my dog died in the middle of winter, right after a blizzard, I was beside myself. My husband attempted to dig a grave, but it was near impossible. He went a rented a little back hoe thingy....because I was appalled by my husbands first suggestion that we buy another freezer and store him till spring time. My dog needed to be buried that day!

It's a sad turn of affairs when I respected my dog more than a mother respects her own son. imo

I had a kitten get out and hit by a car in late November. The ground was so hard, i could not dig it. In desperation i called the police sobbing and asked them to send someone to dig a hole which they did. (i was pretty hysterical, told them i was going to sit with her little body all night and day until i could find a way to get her buried)

That said, there is a huge security issue with Mj's body. Fans were trying to get to MJ's body when it was in Gordy's crypt already. For all we know it has been "buried" in a different crypt and no one is saying where while they decide on a final resting place. They can't let the information out imo


No one is just "using" elvis's body as an excuse even though it was an issue for him as well.
Michael Jackson’s body has been moved because of fears ghoulish fans would break into the crypt in which it was hidden.

His coffin was put inside the tomb belonging to Motown founder Berry Gordy after last week’s memorial service.

His family hoped to keep its location at Hollywood’s Forest Lawn Cemetery a secret until a final burial place was chosen.

But word leaked out over the weekend and thousands of fans and tourists flocked to the spot.

Yesterday it was reported the decision was taken to move Jacko’s coffin from the crypt to the basement of the cemetery’s main building because some “ghoulish” fans’ devotion might respect no boundaries.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/news/2009/07/14/michael-jackson-must-be-saved-from-ghoulish-fans-115875-21517930/

[Nic99]

I had a kitten get out and hit by a car in late November. The ground was so hard, i could not dig it. In desperation i called the police sobbing and asked them to send someone to dig a hole which they did. (i was pretty hysterical, told them i was going to sit with her little body all night and day until i could find a way to get her buried)

That said, there is a huge security issue with Mj's body. Fans were trying to get to MJ's body when it was in Gordy's crypt already. For all we know it has been "buried" in a different crypt and no one is saying where while they decide on a final resting place. They can't let the information out imo


No one is just "using" elvis's body as an excuse even though it was an issue for him as well.

ITA and don't think this has anything to do with the family disrespecting MJ's body, but the contrary, they are trying to protect him and find a suitable, safe place, so he can rest in peace. Maybe they should do a vault type coffin that can be as secure as possible, but these things take time, unlike your 'average' burial.

[who_is_it]

-----------------
Oh ok. But that is Dr. Klein's lawyer saying he isn't being
investigated anymore, not the police. So my theory still
could work. Separated and divorced parents use kids as
a pawn lots of times.

I just searched for the link but didn't find it anymore. Weird... -- I actually was SURE I've read it on TMZ but it seems I've confused something.

Initially Dr Klein was my suspect #1 what the found drugs are concerned. IF he was responsible I wouldn't believe he prescribed them but used any other distribution channel. MJ visited his office often before his death but maybe only for plastic surgery.

[ScoobyDoo]

On CNN just now they were playing what they called "key" points of the LKL interview.

one thing I noticed about Joe's response was when the question of whether he and Katherine were still married. That was the only question Joe answered adamantly, without hesitation or measured words. Not that it really matters, but my first thought......? California is a community property state. If Katherine has inherited outright 40% of MJ's estate, Joe could walk away with millions, couldn't he?


Actually I believe inherited money is not considered community property, unless the inherited money is co-mingled with the community property. If it is kept separate, he is entitled to none of it.

imo...of course.

[who_is_it]

Finally got his **** together? Please...he was a drug addict that was desperate for money to support his lavish and wasteful spending and the debtors were banging down the door. imo

I was not talking about his drug problems. During the last years Michael started many projects which he failed to finish, has lost his trust in others. Shortly before his death he was amibitious again, enthusiastic and also happy. He was looking forward to doing the shows.

What his debts are concerned if he hadn't died: not long anymore. This would have been the biggest comeback EVER.

[sunnydale]

Also when Larry asked Joe about his feelings on not being in the Will, Joe said something like he was alright with it and that Katherine is fair and will be fair.
That seemed to me that Joe is thinking Katherine will share with him. IMO

[nsm]

i've always been confused over the fact that the jacksons claim to be jehovahs witnesses. From what I know about the beliefs of JW"S is not the life style that the jacksons have. I think also the beating /spanking thing is generational. kids growing up in the 1950's for example were hit and spanked by parents and society accepted it.
kids were even sent to the principles office at schools in that time for a "paddling". Kids basically had no rights back then. They were smacked in public and it was accepted. Things have changed, these days, its a crime to do to a child what happened back in those days.

[who_is_it]

I don't buy that. I read he was like 3 hours late or a no show most of the time. That's why the start date was pushed back. IMO

That's what TMZ said. Here are some other articles:

What Michael Jackson Did on His Last Day
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1907601,00.html?xid=rss-topstories

Inside Michael Jackson's last show: The magic was back
http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2009-06-28-jackson-concerts_N.htm

Friends say Jackson was energetic, upbeat as he prepared for comeback tour in London
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/090626/entertainment/us_michael_jackson_final_days

Furthermore I myself was sceptical -- so sceptical that I didn't want to buy a ticket. (I live in Europe.) One week before his death I started to google to see what the progress of his rehearsals because I thought I could get a ticket on ebay IF I think the shows will take place.

I was TOTALLY surprised to read after his death how prepared he was and when I watched the released video.

[who_is_it]

I do not believe MJ would have been able to complete a series of 50 concerts. I also believe had he lived, after he did what he could AEG would have become another creditor filing a lawsuit. However, I do wonder if MJ actually signed a contract to do 50. JMO

I don't believe it, either.

What I thought is: Just 50 concerts (not only 10 or 20) would have redeemed the costs. Maybe they've announced 50, got the insurance... but between AEG and MJ was a "secret" agreement he won't do 50 and gets a sick note after some. The insurance would have paid.
IMO

[Nic99]

I don't believe it, either.

What I thought is: Just 50 concerts (not only 10 or 20) would have redeemed the costs. Maybe they've announced 50, got the insurance... but between AEG and MJ was a "secret" agreement he won't do 50 and gets a sick note after some. The insurance would have paid.
IMO

Wasn't the original agreement for about 10 concerts. I don't think Michael would have wanted to deliberately dissapoint his fans and that the 50 concerts was added later on and pushed onto him:sad: I had purchased a ticket with my friend to see him, because I missed out at the last performance over here 20 yrs ago:sad:

[daniel green]

snipped If Katherine has inherited outright 40% of MJ's estate, Joe could walk away with millions, couldn't he?

Indeed, he could.

[daniel green]

I supplied documentation written by a doctor and Bill Cosby and I hardly think they are racist. JMO

snipped

I do not believe either one of them qualified to make such assessments or pronouncements and find their views very disturbing.

[who_is_it]

Wasn't the original agreement for about 10 concerts. I don't think Michael would have wanted to deliberately dissapoint his fans and that the 50 concerts was added later on and pushed onto him:sad: I had purchased a ticket with my friend to see him, because I missed out at the last performance over here 20 yrs ago:sad:

I've read he never finished a tour.

About the "10 concerts only" thing: The original source was an anonymous fan, quoted by the trashy tabloid "The Sun". I don't know if this information which was quoted all over the internet is credible.

I wasn't a Michael Jackson fan in the past; therefore I've never seen him in concert. Compassion during and after the trial made me become a fan.

Since then it was my wish to once meet him in person or see him at least in a concert. Many people said his aura was captivating. Some years ago (in 2006?) he made this disastrous award show appearance ... but nevertheless people who were there called it "magic".

Some weeks before his death I thought: I MUST go to London. He's 50... and maybe it's my last chance. I also had the thought he maybe won't live too long anymore (though I didn't predict his death so soon). Driven by this thought I started to get more information about the rehearsals and ticket sales on ebay.

Believe me, I'm devastated -- still.

[daniel green]

And you can take your opinion up with Dr. Pouissant who my African-American husband agrees with. JMO



http://www.nospank.net/muwakkil.htm

Dr Pouissant says that corporal punishment harms children. He does not say that it is part of the Af-Am culture.

However, that whole issue is not on topic.

[Nic99]

I've read he never finished a tour.

About the "10 concerts only" thing: The original source was an anonymous fan, quoted by the trashy tabloid "The Sun". I don't know if this information which was quoted all over the internet is credible.

I wasn't a Michael Jackson fan in the past; therefore I've never seen him in concert. Compassion during and after the trial made me become a fan.

Since then it was my wish to once meet him in person or see him at least in a concert. Many people said his aura was captivating. Some years ago (in 2006?) he made this disastrous award show appearance ... but nevertheless people who were there called it "magic".

Some weeks before his death I thought: I MUST go to London. He's 50... and maybe it's my last chance. I also had the thought he maybe won't live too long anymore (though I didn't predict his death so soon). Driven by this thought I started to get more information about the rehearsals and ticket sales on ebay.

Believe me, I'm devastated -- still.

Yup, I missed out at the chance before and I am gutted. Hindsight an' all. However, I did have my ticket for this one and I too am devestated about that. I have enjoyed MJ's music from growing up really. I always loved the Jackson's and my sis loved the Osmonds, so it was always a battle in my house lol...

I don't buy the Sun for obvious reasons, but do remember about 10/20 concerts originally..... Might have to search for some links for that one:smile:

[who_is_it]

<snipped>
"part of the Af-Am culture"
<snipped>



off topic:

I'm not from the US. I know this is the official term since I a while. To me "African-American" sounds strange... because everybody who's called "African-American" is born in the US -- only ancestors have their roots in Africa. I wouldn't want to be reminded of ancestors all the time if I was born in the US. In South Africa the official term is "colored"; I've read this is derogative in the US. To be honest I don't understand why.

[who_is_it]

Yup, I missed out at the chance before and I am gutted. Hindsight an' all. However, I did have my ticket for this one and I too am devestated about that. I have enjoyed MJ's music from growing up really. I always loved the Jackson's and my sis loved the Osmonds, so it was always a battle in my house lol...

I don't buy the Sun for obvious reasons, but do remember about 10/20 concerts originally..... Might have to search for some links for that one:smile:

This is the link:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/2460145/Michael-Jackson-angry-at-50-gig-O2-marathon.html

I just saw you're from the UK. I'm from Germany.

[Nic99]

I think it was on topic when abusing children became excusable by some here...because "that's just the way it was back then" ...."child abuse was part of African American culture" and "they just didn't know any better"....etc....IMO

Did someone say it was excusable?

[ScoobyDoo]

I do not believe either one of them qualified to make such assessments or pronouncements and find their views very disturbing.


I am reminded of Mrs. Cosby's public letter in which she blamed american culture and racism as a contributing factor in the murder of her son, Ennis. The truth was not so much racism but instead drugs, and the craving of an addict looking for money to get more drugs. In reality her son's death was the result of america's drug culture, which includes members of every race.

imo...of course.

[Nic99]

This is the link:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/bizarre/2460145/Michael-Jackson-angry-at-50-gig-O2-marathon.html

I just saw you're from the UK. I'm from Germany.

Hey, good to have a fellow 'European' on the boards, even if the euro is doing bloody awful and has scuppered my summer hols lol.....

Thanks for the link. I don't think I saw it in the Sun though, cos that is definitely one I avoid lol.....

[who_is_it]

Possible 'criminal aspects' in Michael Jackson memorial security probe

"Los Angeles City Atty. Carmen Trutanich today told the City Council that his inquiry into the city's role in the Michael Jackson memorial may possibly have unearthed some "criminal aspects.''

"Our investigation has taken an unanticipated turn that raises both civil and criminal aspects,'' Trutanich told the council."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/07/michael-jackson-36.html

--------------------

LA Mayor At Center Of Jackson Donation Flap

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/21/ap/music/main5177943.shtml

[who_is_it]

Hey, good to have a fellow 'European' on the boards, even if the euro is doing bloody awful and has scuppered my summer hols lol.....

Thanks for the link. I don't think I saw it in the Sun though, cos that is definitely one I avoid lol.....

It was opposite some years ago... London was so expensive. You couldn't go there anymore....

[crazymama]

IMO Michael Jackson had anything but a naive upbringing. His father dragging him from strip club to strip club to preform. Sleeping in hotel rooms with his brothers, listening/watching them have sex in the same room, all at the tender age of 10. It was perverse. imo
------------------
Yes, I'm sure it was a rude awakening for all the kids. So
he had a naive upbringing till age 10. He was still a JW for
quite awhile after, I believe into his late teens. JW's can be
very sheltered to the outside world.
Feed him some alcohol and he would have been toast the
rest of the night. Oblivious.

[Nic99]

It was opposite some years ago... London was so expensive. You couldn't go there anymore....

Yes, I'm sure, now we're stuck here with the lovely 'English' weather:sad:

[GentleBreeze]

Possible 'criminal aspects' in Michael Jackson memorial security probe

"Los Angeles City Atty. Carmen Trutanich today told the City Council that his inquiry into the city's role in the Michael Jackson memorial may possibly have unearthed some "criminal aspects.''

"Our investigation has taken an unanticipated turn that raises both civil and criminal aspects,'' Trutanich told the council."

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/07/michael-jackson-36.html

--------------------

LA Mayor At Center Of Jackson Donation Flap

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/21/ap/music/main5177943.shtml

It sounds to me that maybe the city padded the price of what really should have been spent or was spent. Ordering more police than they knew they really needed just to get overtime pay.

Maybe the outlandish money spent just for lunch meals alone were inflated.

imo

[crazymama]

I just searched for the link but didn't find it anymore. Weird... -- I actually was SURE I've read it on TMZ but it seems I've confused something.

Initially Dr Klein was my suspect #1 what the found drugs are concerned. IF he was responsible I wouldn't believe he prescribed them but used any other distribution channel. MJ visited his office often before his death but maybe only for plastic surgery.
-------------
Oh, so u suspect him too. Do u mean he told MJ where to go to
get drugs wanted? Dr. Klein networking his patients unlimited income. Maybe these doctors are in cahoots. Do u think Debbie could be part of the manipulations. I guess I need to say this is all my opinions and supposings.

[vonna]

ITA and don't think this has anything to do with the family disrespecting MJ's body, but the contrary, they are trying to protect him and find a suitable, safe place, so he can rest in peace. Maybe they should do a vault type coffin that can be as secure as possible, but these things take time, unlike your 'average' burial.

Burying him would be the most respectful thing to do for him.

[Nic99]

Burying him would be the most respectful thing to do for him.

Yes, but it needs to be in a secure site, which won't be disturbed, hence the delay imo.

[who_is_it]

-------------
Oh, so u suspect him too. Do u mean he told MJ where to go to
get drugs wanted? Dr. Klein networking his patients unlimited income. Maybe these doctors are in cahoots. Do u think Debbie could be part of the manipulations. I guess I need to say this is all my opinions and supposings.

Many posters here have a bad opinion about Debbie... but I don't think too bad of her. She wanted to have money, okay... but imo she's a straight, direct and honest person, though.

I'm not a fan of these conspiracy theories..., don't want to say anything before it's not confirmed.

All I could say is that I have the impression he's not honest in one way or the other. His reaction when asked if he's the biological father of the kids was strange as well imo.

[ScoobyDoo]

Burying him would be the most respectful thing to do for him.

Hi Vonna.... dear lady:

I think he was buried before the memorial, and the casket was empty at the memorial. The only reason I can see to not bury him already would be to avoid digging him up again in order to move him to Neverland. I don't think Neverland will be his burial place, and he has been buried in some secret location.

imo...of course.

[who_is_it]

It sounds to me that maybe the city padded the price of what really should have been spent or was spent. Ordering more police than they knew they really needed just to get overtime pay.

Maybe the outlandish money spent just for lunch meals alone were inflated.

imo

The CBS article says mayor Antonio Villaraigosa set up a link for donations on his private website which he removed later.

"Questions of the mayor's role surfaced almost as soon as his Twitter page lit up with messages urging donations the day of the memorial."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/21/ap/music/main5177943.shtml

[ScoobyDoo]

What are you talking about??? I have done a full day's work, visited my dad in hospital and then came home:confused:


Hi Nic:

I'm sorry to hear that your Dad is in the hospital. I wish him a full and speedy recovery.

[vonna]

The CBS article says mayor Antonio Villaraigosa set up a link for donations on his private website which he removed later.

"Questions of the mayor's role surfaced almost as soon as his Twitter page lit up with messages urging donations the day of the memorial."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/21/ap/music/main5177943.shtml

The mayor was in Africa with his girlfriend when MJ died and the acting mayor or someone of authority set up that link which he had removed when he returned saying it was the obligation of the city to pay. I don't know how much AEG contributed to his race for mayor.

[Nic99]

Hi Nic:

I'm sorry to hear that your Dad is in the hospital. I wish him a full and speedy recovery.

Thanks Scooby, isn't that straightforward unfortunately, but thanks for your concern:smile:

[ScoobyDoo]

The mayor was in Africa with his girlfriend when MJ died and the acting mayor or someone of authority set up that link which he had removed when he returned saying it was the obligation of the city to pay. I don't know how much AEG contributed to his race for mayor.

Is he still involved with the Spanish news lady?

[GentleBreeze]

Hi Vonna.... dear lady:

I think he was buried before the memorial, and the casket was empty at the memorial. The only reason I can see to not bury him already would be to avoid digging him up again in order to move him to Neverland. I don't think Neverland will be his burial place, and he has been buried in some secret location.

imo...of course.

I sincerely hope that this has happened and they have just left it for the media to chew on and he is resting peacefully in some unknown area.

I do think the family worries though if others know where he is buried they may try to get into the tomb. People can do some pretty ghoulish and bold things, just like when they tried to steal Elvis' body from the crypt at Forest Hill in Memphis.

imo

[crazymama]

Many posters here have a bad opinion about Debbie... but I don't think too bad of her. She wanted to have money, okay... but imo she's a straight, direct and honest person, though.

I'm not a fan of these conspiracy theories..., don't want to say anything before it's not confirmed.

All I could say is that I have the impression he's not honest in one way or the other. His reaction when asked if he's the biological father of the kids was strange as well imo.
-----------
Yes, well I am not sure of Debbie one way or another. But
when the family spoke about being shut out of his life, well
that lends itself to the manipulation theory.
There's more to this story for sure.

[daniel green]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/21/joe-jackson-implies-docto_n_241754.html

AP story

[who_is_it]

-----------
Yes, well I am not sure of Debbie one way or another. But
when the family spoke about being shut out of his life, well
that lends itself to the manipulation theory.
There's more to this story for sure.

I don't believe La Toya's story he was "murdered". I believe he was killed accidentally IF the doc administered this drug.

His rehearsals were progressed; murder wouldn't have made sense imo.

[RootBeer]

The Today Show is covering the Michael Jackson death right now.

[vonna]

The Today Show is covering the Michael Jackson death right now.

Thank you!

[aproudmom]

off topic:

I'm not from the US. I know this is the official term since I a while. To me "African-American" sounds strange... because everybody who's called "African-American" is born in the US -- only ancestors have their roots in Africa. I wouldn't want to be reminded of ancestors all the time if I was born in the US. In South Africa the official term is "colored"; I've read this is derogative in the US. To be honest I don't understand why.

who I have always been told by my friends they would prefer "colored" it is a very sticky subject around here so at times I do not even know what to say other than I NEVER EVER SAY THE ONE NASTY WORD..but that is just me..so what is the correct term as some may say? I think it depends on the person..JMO

[VC2]

Law enforcement sources tell us the L.A. County Coroner is scheduled to release the autopsy results in Michael Jackson's death next week, and the cause of death will "almost certainly" be homicide -- death at the hands of another.

We're told the Coroner himself will make the call mid-week, after he gets the final toxicology report from an outside consultant. But based on the draft report as well as what has become "clear evidence," causes other than homicide -- natural, accidental, accidental overdose, and suicide -- have been ruled out.

http://www.tmz.com/

[GentleBreeze]

absolutely horrifying. Shows how much this doctor really "cares" about others. Could explain why he didn´t do CPR on the floor. imo

I always felt Michael had been deceased for quite sometime even before Murray said he went back in the room and found him.

Murray could not have been thinking about MJs welfare as a patient. He would have constantly monitored him, like he was supposed to do the entire time but to try to bring Michael back after that long wasn't for Michael's best interest as the brain had long been deprived of oxygen but it was an attempt to protect Murray's a**.

imo

[Beach~Tenant]

in the beginning and the end of your post - twice - you point out that you never cared about mj. In the middle you blame him for his death. I think posts like that are not ok.

ditto!!!!!!

[GentleBreeze]

in the beginning and the end of your post - twice - you point out that you never cared about MJ. In the middle you blame him for his death. I think posts like that are not ok.

What is odd to me is someone can have an opinion about MJ yet admit they never cared about MJ nor have never even seen him sing or dance since he was a very young boy decades ago.:confused:

I don't see why anyone would believe the COD/MOD is anything other than what the ME will determine it is. I think this is one of the most highly investigated cases in CA. They apply the facts and all we can do is speculate.

I do feel it will be a homicide but it that is not true, then I will accept whatever the ME determines it is but by the articles released it sure isn't looking like an accidental overdose or from other causes such as suicide or natural death.

imo

[aproudmom]

ok I was reading Kathleen Savio's 3rd Autopsy report that was done several years after her death and they do put something in a bag inside the stomach cavity..I never knew that..I remember several of us were wondering what they did with with certain things so from everything I have looked up some are removed and incinerated and some are put inside the body so they say they will return his brain back to the family a doctor said the other day some want it to be inside per their religion but most will just put the container or bag in the coffin...wow I learn something everyday...

[aproudmom]

in the beginning and the end of your post - twice - you point out that you never cared about MJ. In the middle you blame him for his death. I think posts like that are not ok.

I know we all have our own opinions but I do find it odd some who could careless and is sick of the coverage would actually even take the time out to post about him..so I must agree with you on this one...JMO

[GentleBreeze]

ok I was reading Kathleen Savio's 3rd Autopsy report that was done several years after her death and they do put something in a bag inside the stomach cavity..I never knew that..I remember several of us were wondering what they did with with certain things so from everything I have looked up some are removed and incinerated and some are put inside the body so they say they will return his brain back to the family a doctor said the other day some want it to be inside per their religion but most will just put the container or bag in the coffin...wow I learn something everyday...

From the autopsy reports I have read over the years is when the Y shape incision is made in order to look at the organs inside when they removed them they do put them back inside in a bag before they sew the incision back up.

I find it odd that they would keep the entire brain anyway. They will slice off enough so testing can be done and it is freeze dried. They do this with part of the liver, kidneys, heart too.

I really don't think they are waiting on his brain to be returned. I think all of them are very apprehensive about where to securely place him where his resting place will not be disturbed by some cuckoo.

I have never heard of a funeral home just putting hazardous material in a bag and placing it in the coffin. That seems like it would be against the law due to bio material being highly hazardous and highly regulated.

[aproudmom]

What is odd to me is someone can have an opinion about MJ yet admit they never cared about MJ nor have never even seen him sing or dance since he was a very young boy decades ago.:confused:

I don't see why anyone would believe the COD/MOD is anything other than what the ME will determine it is. I think this is one of the most highly investigated cases in CA. They apply the facts and all we can do is speculate.

I do feel it will be a homicide but it that is not true, then I will accept whatever the ME determines it is but by the articles released it sure isn't looking like an accidental overdose or from other causes such as suicide or natural death.

imo

Great post GB ITA

[aproudmom]

From the autopsy reports I have read over the years is when the Y shape incision is made in order to look at the organs inside when they removed them they do put them back inside in a bag before they sew the incision back up.

I find it odd that they would keep the entire brain anyway. They will slice off enough so testing can be done and it is freeze dried. They do this with part of the liver, kidneys, heart too.

I really don't think they are waiting on his brain to be returned. I think all of them are very apprehensive about where to securely place him where his resting place will not be disturbed by some cuckoo.

I have never heard of a funeral home just putting hazardous material in a bag and placing it in the coffin. That seems like it would be against the law due to bio material being highly hazardous and highly regulated.
YEAH I did not want to post the site I actually saw it was a little TMI an you are correct it is sent to the mortician before embalming they have requirements they must go by..but that doctor said it would be in a sealed container approved so there is no leakage..but it is not a common process of actually opening the body back up...I guess I just wish they would get him laid to rest I know where he was or is there is a private gated off area and also a public area and they have high security it is just hard to believe it has been almost 1 month..:sad:...JMO

[aproudmom]

ok guess maybe I should move over to the children's link but can anyone tell me has this mystery son been talked about?

http://blog.taragana.com/e/2009/07/23/michael-jackson-secret-son-omer-bhatti-pictures-18599/

[aproudmom]

Would you please elucidate why my post is not ok. I am allowed my opinion as you are. I would just like to know the reasoning in more specific terms what bothers you about my post. Again I appologize for speaking in German as I thought that is where you are from and maybe didn't understand my post.

ok you had me lost had no idea what your post said now I know why I do not know German

[ellegna]

I always felt Michael had been deceased for quite sometime even before Murray said he went back in the room and found him.

Murray could not have been thinking about MJs MJ'sfare as a patient. He would have constantly monitored him, like he was supposed to do the entire time but to try to bring Michael back after that long wasn't for Michael's best interest as the brain had long been deprived of oxygen but it was an attempt to protect Murray's a**.

imo

I too believe MJ was deceased before the 911 call. The 30 minute delay leads me to believe the doctor was covering his tracks and removing incriminating items from the room before the EMS arrived.
I'm no doctor but I do have CPR training and I even knew you must place the individual on a hard surface to perform compressions. What this doctor did was just a show for witnesses.

Summoning Prince Michael to witness the CPR is the most heartless, callous act by this doctor. That poor child :sad:

[aproudmom]

Absolutely horrifying if true. That poor child:(

omg no way I would think someone would have kept the kids in another room.I pray it is not true..we did see Paris watching them take her daddy to the ambulance oh my I hope not..

[aproudmom]

I too believe MJ was deceased before the 911 call. The 30 minute delay leads me to believe the doctor was covering his tracks and removing incriminating items from the room before the EMS arrived.
I'm no doctor but I do have CPR training and I even knew you must place the individual on a hard surface to perform compressions. What this doctor did was just a show for witnesses.

Summoning Prince Michael to witness the CPR is the most heartless, callous act by this doctor. That poor child :sad:

does anyone remember it being reported that the EMT's got there he was flat lined no chance of bringing him back but the doctor told them to keep trying then they told him it was to late the coroner needed to be called and he said no take him to the hospital? I am sure those EMTs are being talked to but my question is could they tell how long he had been dead before they arrived..your body temp does not change that fast does it..but if it was 2 hours I would think they could tell if he was cold to the touch

[GentleBreeze]

I too believe MJ was deceased before the 911 call. The 30 minute delay leads me to believe the doctor was covering his tracks and removing incriminating items from the room before the EMS arrived.
I'm no doctor but I do have CPR training and I even knew you must place the individual on a hard surface to perform compressions. What this doctor did was just a show for witnesses.

Summoning Prince Michael to witness the CPR is the most heartless, callous act by this doctor. That poor child :sad:

I think Murray did all of these painstaking things just for show, ellegna.

I really don't put any faith or credibility in The Sun, tabloid.

Now I can see any child Prince's age running to his daddy's room in sheer panic and grave concern for him and seeing the doctor work on his daddy trying to bring him back up but I do not believe Murray MADE Prince do anything. Prince's actions would be a normal response for any child that thought their parent was in dire straights.

It is amazing how The Sun can twist by emphasizing one word 'MADE" to create spin and sensationalism. Murray according to all the reports was working on MJ the entire time. He would have no time to make anyone do anything.

I noticed they did say that the none of these people have been paid any money for these stories. I believe that to be true because I don't think any of these people have remotely spoken with The Sun about this.

imo

[flipflop]

Report: Michael Jackson's Prosthetic Nose Is Missing


Michael Jackson wore a prosthetic nose, according a report — and it was missing from his surgically mangled face as he lay in an LA morgue.

Left behind was a small, dark hole surrounded by bits of cartilage, Rolling Stone magazine said, citing witnesses who saw the King of Pop's body on the autopsy table.

Jackson, who was notoriously shy about his appearance, wore the prosthetic to mask the effects of decades of plastic surgery, according to the magazine, due to hit newsstands today.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534724,00.html??test=faces

This is just getting crazy. All the reports we heard in the beginning are coming back around.

[GentleBreeze]

omg no way I would think someone would have kept the kids in another room.I pray it is not true..we did see Paris watching them take her daddy to the ambulance oh my I hope not..

I don't think anyone was in the home but MJ, his children and Dr. Murray. The security guard was outside on the grounds and had to be summoned by Dr. Murray.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

Report: Michael Jackson's Prosthetic Nose Is Missing


Michael Jackson wore a prosthetic nose, according a report — and it was missing from his surgically mangled face as he lay in an LA morgue.

Left behind was a small, dark hole surrounded by bits of cartilage, Rolling Stone magazine said, citing witnesses who saw the King of Pop's body on the autopsy table.

Jackson, who was notoriously shy about his appearance, wore the prosthetic to mask the effects of decades of plastic surgery, according to the magazine, due to hit newsstands today.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534724,00.html??test=faces

This is just getting crazy. All the reports we heard in the beginning are coming back around.

I read yesterday that the ME said he had people in his department or LE, I cant remember exactly now, looking at things they weren't suppose to concerning MJs case and it wouldn't shock me if some that were right in the autopsy room and took his prosthetic nose. How horrible and demeaning to return him to his family like that knowing how shy MJ was about that.:crying:

I don't even understand why the prosthetic nose had to be removed in the autopsy.:confused:

This case is going to bring out the worst of the worst, even those who are supposed to be professionals.

imo

[aproudmom]

I think Murray did all of these painstaking things just for show, ellegna.

I really don't put any faith or credibility in The Sun, tabloid.

Now I can see any child Prince's age running to his daddy's room in sheer panic and grave concern for him and seeing the doctor work on his daddy trying to bring him back up but I do not believe Murray MADE Prince do anything. Prince's actions would be a normal response for any child that thought their parent was in dire straights.

It is amazing how The Sun can twist by emphasizing one word 'MADE" to create spin and sensationalism. Murray according to all the reports was working on MJ the entire time. He would have no time to make anyone do anything.


I noticed they did say that the none of these people have been paid any money for these stories. I believe that to be true because I don't think any of these people have remotely spoken with The Sun about this.

imo

omg they are a joke pretty much...the Sun said they did not pay people?

[KatieLady]

I read yesterday that the ME said he had people in his department or LE, I cant remember exactly now, looking at things they weren't suppose to concerning MJs case and it wouldn't shock me if some that were right in the autopsy room and took his prosthetic nose. How horrible and demeaning to return him to his family like that knowing how shy MJ was about that.:crying:

I don't even understand why the prosthetic nose had to be removed in the autopsy.:confused:

This case is going to bring out the worst of the worst, even those who are supposed to be professionals.

imo

The reports I have read here, locally, say that they looked at his death certif. before it was released to the public. That is the only thing the coroners office it looking into. IMO

I wish the news would stop with these stories too GB

[aproudmom]

I read yesterday that the ME said he had people in his department or LE, I cant remember exactly now, looking at things they weren't suppose to concerning MJs case and it wouldn't shock me if some that were right in the autopsy room and took his prosthetic nose. How horrible and demeaning to return him to his family like that knowing how shy MJ was about that.:crying:

I don't even understand why the prosthetic nose had to be removed in the autopsy.:confused:

This case is going to bring out the worst of the worst, even those who are supposed to be professionals.

imo

ok this was reported on some tabloid and showed the pic of him in the back of the Ambulance but did Dr. Klein not say it was untrue and he was actually filling his nose because of the cartilage or something..I will believe it when I see it in a legal document..

It was the Death Cert that got 300 hits on it and they were warned not the autopsy report..or they would be in deep poo poo..

[cutiepatootie61]

I read yesterday that the ME said he had people in his department or LE, I cant remember exactly now, looking at things they weren't suppose to concerning MJs case and it wouldn't shock me if some that were right in the autopsy room and took his prosthetic nose. How horrible and demeaning to return him to his family like that knowing how shy MJ was about that.:crying:

I don't even understand why the prosthetic nose had to be removed in the autopsy.:confused:

This case is going to bring out the worst of the worst, even those who are supposed to be professionals.

imo


I'm not believing this. On the Monday night prior to the broadcast memorial, the family and some friends gathered at Forest Lawn for an open casket viewing of Michael Jackson. LaToya described the stones that Paris decorated Michael with and the necklace she wrapped around his hands. If Michael had no nose, I don't think the casket would have been open for viewing by family or any other, but especially his children. I don't believe the nose was prosthetic or taken. Perhaps I'll be convinced otherwise later, but right now I'm betting its fodder for the rumor mill. moo

[aproudmom]

this picture was what got it all started by saying he did not have his nose on to me this picture is sick because we all know he was not alive in this picture but I see a nose on him unlike so many blogger and stupid tabloids with nothing better to do than make things up...

this is not his last photo alive it was his only photo of him dead as far as we know..
http://www.theinsider.com/news/2306335_Michael_Jackson_Exclusive_Last_Photo

[GentleBreeze]

I'm not believing this. On the Monday night prior to the broadcast memorial, the family and some friends gathered at Forest Lawn for an open casket viewing of Michael Jackson. LaToya described the stones that Paris decorated Michael with and the necklace she wrapped around his hands. If Michael had no nose, I don't think the casket would have been open for viewing by family or any other, but especially his children. I don't believe the nose was prosthetic or taken. Perhaps I'll be convinced otherwise later, but right now I'm betting its fodder for the rumor mill. moo

I have to agree with you. My gosh this case is bringing out the most disgusting statements possible as if they are trying to one up the other one on being the most vile and macabre.:rolleyes:

And what ticks me off is the mainstream media will pick up these tabloid trash talks and run with it as if it has been validated for its authenticity.

I have never been so dissatisfied with the media as I have in the last few years. I don't believe any of them. They have become nothing but spin masters who's only goal is to getting ratings and boosting sales.

The Sun is owned by Rupert Murdock and it is another outlet where he can spin the "Ripley's believe it or not" crap.

imo

[aproudmom]

http://gretawire.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/07/23/search-warrant/?loomia_ow=t0:s0:a16:g12:r2:c0.377384:b26658128:z0

SEARCH WARRANT !
MANSLAUGHTER CHARGES POSSIBLE?

Below is the search warrant authorizing the police to raid Dr. Conrad Murray's office. As you may recall, Dr. Murray was living at Michael Jackson's home when he died and had tried to revive him. Now Police are looking to see if he should be charged with manslaughter (note: a search warrant is NOT an indictment...)

[aproudmom]

I see no reason for him to lie since he would only be telling them he was seeing him several times in the few months leading up to his death...and he would have to know it would come out if MJ did not have a nose..so until I see other wise I think it is very sad that some are and have reported that.....JMO This was actually off the LKL interview not telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/michael-jackson/5792880/Michael-Jackson-had-nose-rebuilt-after-plastic-surgery-left-him-unable-to-breathe.html

Dr Klein said he had intervened to stop Jackson from having further surgery and then began rebuilding his nose and cheeks using fillers last year.


“I rebuilt it, using fillers. He was beginning to look like the nose was normal again. And that’s all I wanted – and to regain the breathing passages of his nose, because there was a total collapse of the cartilage

[VC2]

Report: Michael Jackson's Prosthetic Nose Is Missing


Michael Jackson wore a prosthetic nose, according a report — and it was missing from his surgically mangled face as he lay in an LA morgue.

Left behind was a small, dark hole surrounded by bits of cartilage, Rolling Stone magazine said, citing witnesses who saw the King of Pop's body on the autopsy table.

Jackson, who was notoriously shy about his appearance, wore the prosthetic to mask the effects of decades of plastic surgery, according to the magazine, due to hit newsstands today.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534724,00.html??test=faces

This is just getting crazy. All the reports we heard in the beginning are coming back around.

I believe dr klein on this, that he did not have a prosthetic nose, in fact he was working on rebuilding where it had fallen in part due to cartilage damage with fillers.

He had no reason to lie and knew the truth would be in the autopsy.

jmo

[Nic99]

I hope this link isn't true. Don't know if any of you have seen it yet, but it stated that Prince Michael was requested to be in the bedroom while he was giving his dad CPR, they think to prove that he was trying to resuscitate him:angry:

http://celebrity.aol.co.uk/2009/07/24/jacksons-son-made-to-watch-him-die/

[aproudmom]

I don't think anyone was in the home but MJ, his children and Dr. Murray. The security guard was outside on the grounds and had to be summoned by Dr. Murray.

imo

no one omg I thought the doctor said he found the chef and then the bodyguard

[aproudmom]

Report: Michael Jackson's Prosthetic Nose Is Missing


Michael Jackson wore a prosthetic nose, according a report — and it was missing from his surgically mangled face as he lay in an LA morgue.

Left behind was a small, dark hole surrounded by bits of cartilage, Rolling Stone magazine said, citing witnesses who saw the King of Pop's body on the autopsy table.

Jackson, who was notoriously shy about his appearance, wore the prosthetic to mask the effects of decades of plastic surgery, according to the magazine, due to hit newsstands today.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,534724,00.html??test=faces

This is just getting crazy. All the reports we heard in the beginning are coming back around.

of course we are they need something to print and make money so why not just start all over with their bad reporting...

[aproudmom]

I hope this link isn't true. Don't know if any of you have seen it yet, but it stated that Prince Michael was requested to be in the bedroom while he was giving his dad CPR, they think to prove that he was trying to resuscitate him:angry:

http://celebrity.aol.co.uk/2009/07/24/jacksons-son-made-to-watch-him-die/

I think that says it all..gossip


What's New?Music gossip
Jackson's son made to watch him die
by Daily Gossip Jul 24th 2009

[aproudmom]

:ohmy:never heard of this doctor he killed about 220 to 240 of his patients now that is murder
http://opioids.com/heroin/dr-shipman.html

[aproudmom]

Number one...IF Michael Jackson did have a need for a prosthetic nose....you can bet his didn't have just one! My guess would be he's have atleast a case.

I actually grew up with a girl that had a prosthetic nose, her horse bit it off when we were in the 7th grade together. She was feeding her horse a carrot at the time. Even she had several. She also has these surgical steel pins surgeically implanted for the prosthetic nose to snap onto, some sort of special glue too. It felt pretty neat..rubbery kinda, not hard plastic I had had imagined it to feel like at the time.

but why would Klein lie:confused:

[aproudmom]

The more I read the more I see alot of the Rich and Famous have trouble sleeping that seems very odd to be since most of them such as MJ, HL, and several others were very busy and would have been very tired or you would think so..I saw HL family said it will only get worse for the Jackson family since they have been through this..it was a very sad day when we lost such talent at 28 over to much prescription drugs lets hope they can get a handle on this somehow..

what killed HL...
The medications — identified Wednesday as oxycodone, hydrocodone, diazepam, alprazolam, temazepam and doxylamine — are the generic names for the painkillers OxyContin and Vicodin, the anti-anxiety drugs Valium and Xanax and the sleep aids Restoril and Unisom.

[aproudmom]

Just heard Rebbie has moved in to help with the kids,..sorry if already posted just seen it on E news on TV

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0892238/
Rebbie Jackson is the family's favourite to look after Prince Michael, 12, Paris Katherine, 11, and 7-year-old Blanket.

The 59-year-old is understood to live in Las Vegas with her husband, but sources have suggested that she has always been "deeply involved" in the children's lives.

She is currently believed to be staying with mother Katherine and the kids at the Jackson family home in Encino, California.

[who_is_it]

Dr. Murray's People Scramble for Files

"The timing is interesting. It was 9:22 AM Los Angeles time when the women showed up. Dr. Murray called 911 at 12:21 PM. The question -- what time did Dr. Murray realize Jackson was in distress?"

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/dr-murrays-people-scamble-for-files/

IF this is true I find it really, really shocking...

Someone here on the threads told me that the autopsy can't tell the EXACT time of death. But 3 hours difference? -- I conclude Michael maybe wasn't dead already but in a bad condition. -- What do other posters think about it?

[flipflop]

Dr. Murray's People Scramble for Files

"The timing is interesting. It was 9:22 AM Los Angeles time when the women showed up. Dr. Murray called 911 at 12:21 PM. The question -- what time did Dr. Murray realize Jackson was in distress?"

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/dr-murrays-people-scamble-for-files/

IF this is true I find it really, really shocking...

Someone here on the threads told me that the autopsy can't tell the EXACT time of death. But 3 hours difference? -- I conclude Michael maybe wasn't dead already but in a bad condition. -- What do other posters think about it?

I think he had been dead awhile.

[who_is_it]

feelings,

Sorry, I thought you were from Berlin Germany. I guess maybe Berlin Maryland??

You probably confused the other poster with me. I'm German.

[aproudmom]

The casket would have never been opened for those children to see MJ without a nose. The mortician would have fixed that. If they can rebuild a head or a face, they can certainly rebuild a nose. Geez jmo

I don't believe it I do not see why doctor Klein would lie he would know it would come out if he did lie to LK ...I think it is a joke what they will print.they also saw him in the Hospital and it was reported he did not have his nose I just laugh and wait until I see proof not that I really care it is really no ones business just a way to bash MJ and make money off lies..

[who_is_it]

I think he had been dead awhile.

... but not 3 hours. 3 hours would be provable in the autopsy imo.

[cutiepatootie61]

Dr. Murray's People Scramble for Files

"The timing is interesting. It was 9:22 AM Los Angeles time when the women showed up. Dr. Murray called 911 at 12:21 PM. The question -- what time did Dr. Murray realize Jackson was in distress?"

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/dr-murrays-people-scamble-for-files/

IF this is true I find it really, really shocking...

Someone here on the threads told me that the autopsy can't tell the EXACT time of death. But 3 hours difference? -- I conclude Michael maybe wasn't dead already but in a bad condition. -- What do other posters think about it?

I think that they can determine closely the time of death, by the setting in of rigor, the body temp, etc... The doctor had just left his practice for the purpose of touring with MJ, maybe the women were moving files out of storage for the doctors taking over Murray's patients to go over? I'm not convinced there is something deceitful behind this, not yet....

[who_is_it]

Hi all :)

Trying to get caught up. I don't know if the stories are true about Prince Michael being forced to watch his dad receiving CPR by Dr. Murray but it really doesn't sound that far-fetched to me. If Dr. Murray knew MJ was already dead why not have a child witness that could "vouch" that Dr. Murray was doing everything he could to save MJ. :shrug:

<snipped>


I agree, it's not too far-fetched if he needed any eye witness he did CPR.

[who_is_it]

I think that they can determine closely the time of death, by the setting in of rigor, the body temp, etc... The doctor had just left his practice for the purpose of touring with MJ, maybe the women were moving files out of storage for the doctors taking over Murray's patients to go over? I'm not convinced there is something deceitful behind this, not yet....

You could be right that it's coincidence and that the women in the office had nothing at all to do with MJ.

What the time of death is concerned a poster with medical knowledge here on the board told me that one can't tell the VERY EXACT time of death. I was interested in this question because of the 30 minutes delay of the 911 call.

[aproudmom]

I think he had been dead awhile.

I agree with you...maybe not 10 hours I have read 2 just do not know if they can tell by the temp of the body but the EMT's said he was flat lined when they arrived is it true I wish we knew

[aproudmom]

You could be right that it's coincidence and that the women in the office had nothing at all to do with MJ.

What the time of death is concerned a poster with medical knowledge here on the board told me that one can't tell the VERY EXACT time of death. I was interested in this question because of the 30 minutes delay of the 911 call.

you can never get it right on but they can get it down to a few hours I remember when Chris Colman killed his family that was the talk Dr Perper explained the temp of the body but 30 no way I bet no one on here can say he had been dead for 30 minutes nor can a doctor...he even called out Dr Baden when he gave a small time frame on the Colman family..

[who_is_it]

The logs were seized during the raid of Dr. Murray's storage unit and turned over by the woman at the place of storage so I do not doubt the story.

I questioned the timing of this yesterday when it was learned that the storage unit had been entered at 9:22AM.

Confused though about TMZ' time zone interpretation. Wouldn't the 9:22AM time on the logs be Houston time and not LA time? If that's the case LA time would have been 7:22AM?


"Two people went to Dr. Conrad Murray's storage facility at 11:22 AM Houston time the day Michael Jackson died and took files from the storage and put them in two cars.

The timing is interesting. It was 9:22 AM Los Angeles time when the women showed up. Dr. Murray called 911 at 12:21 PM. The question -- what time did Dr. Murray realize Jackson was in distress?"

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/dr-murrays-people-scamble-for-files/

Thanx for your thoughts on this one. -- It didn't come to my mind that one has to consider the time difference. If it was 9:22 LA Time (= 11:22 Houston time) it's really suspicious.

[aproudmom]

Hi all :)

Trying to get caught up. I don't know if the stories are true about Prince Michael being forced to watch his dad receiving CPR by Dr. Murray but it really doesn't sound that far-fetched to me. If Dr. Murray knew MJ was already dead why not have a child witness that could "vouch" that Dr. Murray was doing everything he could to save MJ. :shrug:

Anyway in doing a search on this Dr. Hoefflein - turns out he is a plastic surgeon and the one that did plastic surgery or MJ's nose. He also has some pretty bad history:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/281882.stm

Athena been looking for you what is the name of the book is it Unmasked..I was wanting to order it from Amazon.. I wondered who that doctor was..thanks for the link

[who_is_it]

you can never get it right on but they can get it down to a few hours I remember when Chris Colman killed his family that was the talk Dr Perper explained the temp of the body but 30 no way I bet no one on here can say he had been dead for 30 minutes nor can a doctor...he even called out Dr Baden when he gave a small time frame on the Colman family..

I was really surprised to hear from the other poster (and now you) that 30 minutes earlier or later are not provable. (Falsely) I always believed the autopsy methods are advanced in a way one could tell the exact time.

[cutiepatootie61]

I was really surprised to hear from the other poster (and now you) that 30 minutes earlier or later are not provable. (Falsely) I always believed the autopsy methods are advanced in a way one could tell the exact time.

Here is a link to a site that states what the forensic pathologist goes by to determine the time of death. I'm not sure wha the EMT's that responded to MJ's house did upon arrival, but hopefully some of these stats were recorded at the house and then again at the hospital.

http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/ta_time_since_death.htm

[Firehead11]

Thanx for your thoughts on this one. -- It didn't come to my mind that one has to consider the time difference. If it was 9:22 LA Time (= 11:22 Houston time) it's really suspicious.

I took it to mean that 3 hours elasped before he called 911. Like get the records out of there and then let me know the coast is clear... know what I mean?

[who_is_it]

Athena been looking for you what is the name of the book is it Unmasked..I was wanting to order it from Amazon.. I wondered who that doctor was..thanks for the link

Btw, there's also a book thread here at the board.

[who_is_it]

Here is a link to a site that states what the forensic pathologist goes by to determine the time of death. I'm not sure wha the EMT's that responded to MJ's house did upon arrival, but hopefully some of these stats were recorded at the house and then again at the hospital.

http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/ta_time_since_death.htm

Thank you but the link doesn't work for me...

[who_is_it]

I took it to mean that 3 hours elasped before he called 911. Like get the records out of there and then let me know the coast is clear... know what I mean?

Yes, but it could be, too, what the poster cutiepatootie said: coincidence... and that the women just got the files for other doctors who took over Dr. Murray's former patients.

[aproudmom]

The logs were seized during the raid of Dr. Murray's storage unit and turned over by the woman at the place of storage so I do not doubt the story.

I questioned the timing of this yesterday when it was learned that the storage unit had been entered at 9:22AM.

Confused though about TMZ' time zone interpretation. Wouldn't the 9:22AM time on the logs be Houston time and not LA time? If that's the case LA time would have been 7:22AM?


"Two people went to Dr. Conrad Murray's storage facility at 11:22 AM Houston time the day Michael Jackson died and took files from the storage and put them in two cars.

The timing is interesting. It was 9:22 AM Los Angeles time when the women showed up. Dr. Murray called 911 at 12:21 PM. The question -- what time did Dr. Murray realize Jackson was in distress?"

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/dr-murrays-people-scamble-for-files/

was he the only doctor working out of that building do we know? and could the report of a 2 hour wait be because of the time difference perhaps..I really figured they had it gated or cameras they do around here and it is a small town because they get broke into so often..

[GentleBreeze]

I think that they can determine closely the time of death, by the setting in of rigor, the body temp, etc... The doctor had just left his practice for the purpose of touring with MJ, maybe the women were moving files out of storage for the doctors taking over Murray's patients to go over? I'm not convinced there is something deceitful behind this, not yet....

Yes, they can. They can narrow it much closer by a number of things.

Last time that morning he was seen alive by anyone. If the children were in the home they may have seen him alive that morning or talked with him, we just don't know.
If he already had some lividity when found.
Stomach contents.
Body temp or core temp taken from liver.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

------------
several years ago i remember reading where MJ's prosthetic nose flew off his face while he was on stage and it went into the audience. Dont know if this is true or not. IMO

I have never even heard that.

imo

[aproudmom]

Thank you but the link doesn't work for me...

it worked for me
http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/ta_time_since_death.htm

[aproudmom]

------------
several years ago i remember reading where MJ's prosthetic nose flew off his face while he was on stage and it went into the audience. Dont know if this is true or not. IMO

don't believe all you read I never heard that

[aproudmom]

Yes, they can. They can narrow it much closer by a number of things.

Last time that morning he was seen alive by anyone. If the children were in the home they may have seen him alive that morning or talked with him, we just don't know.
If he already had some lividity when found.
Stomach contents.
Body temp or core temp taken from liver.

imo

this is the test Dr Perper was talking about...
Truth Lies In The Eyes Top
The eyes of a victim can also hold answers to the time of death, as a thin cloudy film is developed over the eye within 3 hours after death has occurred. The eyeballs become softer as a result of less fluid pressure behind the eye and the degree to which this has occurred can be used as a measure of the time since death. Again, a less common procedure for deaths that evidently occurred out of the limit of several days.

[aproudmom]

------------
several years ago i remember reading where MJ's prosthetic nose flew off his face while he was on stage and it went into the audience. Dont know if this is true or not. IMO

very easy to just type it in and see what you can find...IT IS FALSE NEVER HAPPENED
http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/jackson2.asp

[who_is_it]

Yes, they can. They can narrow it much closer by a number of things.

Last time that morning he was seen alive by anyone. If the children were in the home they may have seen him alive that morning or talked with him, we just don't know.
If he already had some lividity when found.
Stomach contents.
Body temp or core temp taken from liver.

imo

I've read so many things and I really don't remember the source. If I recall it correctly Joe made a statement a few days after MJ's that Michael had been out of the house that morning and waved to fans. -- Does anybody else recall this?

[cutiepatootie61]

Interview that Joe Jackson gave ET :

"Proceeds will be put towards a foundation," he says. "It's very important that I carry out his legacy -- bringing good entertainment to the people all over the world, and I intend to do that."

He ought to be putting the proceeds in the bank account he shares with his wife who is scraping up pennies to feed their grandchildren!

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/07/76807/index.html

[who_is_it]

it worked for me
http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/ta_time_since_death.htm

Thank you, now it worked for me, too.

[who_is_it]

------------
several years ago i remember reading where MJ's prosthetic nose flew off his face while he was on stage and it went into the audience. Dont know if this is true or not. IMO

This tabloid story has nothing to do with MJ's death imo... and we were reminded several times by CW to discuss only MJ's death on daily threads or open topic related threads.

Open a thread about his looks and I will post something on the topic, too.

[aproudmom]

----------

I never said i believed it. It was just something that i read. jmo

I typed it in and had tons of sites about it..so was just saying it was not true and very easy to find out...I did not say you believed it seems we have read alot of mis truths about MJ for years so I take the source of who is printing it..was not nit picking just answered your question

[Unperson1984]

Copies of search warrants:

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/ktrk/SearchWarrantTexas.pdf


http://dig.abclocal.go.com/ktrk/second_search_Warrant_Texas.pdf

I wonder who Stacey Howe is, and why is he/she important?

[aproudmom]

-----------

How are u so sure it didnt happen?

I really don't Buzzz I just know how all the stuff the media put out there..but I will not go on with this subject to me it is O/T and I know you put your opinion but and I was just answering your question to the best of my ability I was not trying to start anything I just do not believe it happened but that is JMO and I will move on don't want to see the thread shutdown....

[flipflop]

Klein Did Surgery on Jackson in Gyno Office

We've learned Dr. Arnold Klein once took Michael Jackson to the office next door to his -- run by a gynecologist specializing in vaginal rejuvenation -- to perform a minor acne treatment on the singer under full anesthesia.

We spoke with Dr. Harvey Richmond who told us ... around 2003, Dr. Klein asked him if he could use Richmond's surgery center in his office to perform a procedure on Jackson.


http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/klein-does-surgery-on-jackson-in-gyno-office/

[aproudmom]

It went up $2.00 :ohmy:

http://www.amazon.com/Unmasked-Final-Years-Michael-Jackson/dp/1439177171/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248453938&sr=8-1

no way it was 13 to 15 bucks this morning but was not sure that was the one..oh and thanks for the links to the search warrants...

[cutiepatootie61]

I believe it's Stacey Howie.

Weird, but there's a street named after her in North Carolina. :confused:

Although it's obviously not the same Stacey Howie.

imo


We're told when agents raided Dr. Murray's Houston storage unit, they specifically asked the manager if she knew "Stacey" and whether she was a manager at Dr. Murray's office.

http://www.tmz.com/

[cutiepatootie61]

Jackson's Time of Death in Question

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/michael-jackson-propofol-911-time-of-death/



We're told by the storage facility manager the women who picked up 3 to 5 boxes became nervous when the manager began questioning them about why they were there.

[aproudmom]

I wonder who Stacey Howe is, and why is he/she important?

I wonder who she is..

She is connected to Dr. Murray’s Las Vegas medical practice.

When the agents raided Dr. Murray’s Houston storage unit, they asked the manager to see if she knew “Stacey” and whether “Stacey” was a manager at Dr. Murray’s office
http://www.tmz.com/tag/michael+jackson/

[aproudmom]

Jackson's Time of Death in Question

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/michael-jackson-propofol-911-time-of-death/



We're told by the storage facility manager the women who picked up 3 to 5 boxes became nervous when the manager began questioning them about why they were there.

if TMZ is correct it should not be hard to find out if he had 2 sisters working at his office...they sure are crazy if they did remove things they may look at charges...guess we will find out sometime

[aproudmom]

:laugh: Thanks

sorry did not tell you welcome to the board..and yeah it gets off topic at times but if it goes to far we get in trouble or it is shut down..anyway welcome your in the right place with the name silly before you know it you will be crazy trying to keep up with all the reports most untrue as we know..:smile:

[aproudmom]

http://www.tmz.com/

snipped

"And there's this -- Dr. Richmond says Jackson stiffed him on the bill, eventually only paying half after Richmond threatened to take the singer to Beverly Hills small claims court".

IMO Dr Klein should have billed MJ if he was the one using his office to put him out for a skin treatment..this just gets crazier and crazier..

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I wonder who she is..

She is connected to Dr. Murray’s Las Vegas medical practice.

When the agents raided Dr. Murray’s Houston storage unit, they asked the manager to see if she knew “Stacey” and whether “Stacey” was a manager at Dr. Murray’s office
http://www.tmz.com/tag/michael+jackson/

Hi gang..and welcome to any newbie posters here!..Yikes, it does appear Dr. Murray was a busy boy early in the day at the Jackson residence..June 25th,2009...I am sure there can be some tracing of phone calls to his office..requesting file removal from storage....not to mention interviewing this Stacey Howe..etc...

I from the beginning, felt Dr. Murray was more busy either covering up, or cleaning up..and his not knowing the address so couldnt call 911 himself...The whole scenerio smells to me...and also, if MJ was passed that early in the morning....it would explain why he CPR'd in a questionable manner..and try and circulate meds that he knew would be in his system..and so on....Sr. Murray obtaining council before speaking with LE..also raised the flags for myself as well...

In the end..the truth will come out..and hopefully in a court of law..and not in the tabloids..which many dont regard as gospel..and so it shouldnt..

LMS:blink:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

------------

I really think that a lot of the truth would come out if they could find that missing tape. jmo

That too Buzzzzzz..I do hope there are records of who was monitoring the tapes, and who was responsible etc....Unfortunately, I am afraid the tape or CD has likely been destroyed..

I wonder if the owner of the house had that security system in place already..thus a company that monitored it...orrrr did Mj have the system installed??..I am sure LE Investigations have ferreted that out already..

LMS:laugh:

[aproudmom]

Thanks for the link about it being a rumor about MJ's nose. Its just like i said in my original post.............i didnt know if it was true or not......but i did read about it. thanks again

oh I know Buzzz and I also knew you said you had read it and was not saying it was the truth or false..it is so hard to keep up with things we all know that and I was not being rude if you thought so..I am sure all of that will come out if the autopsy report is not sealed..I remember reading within hours of his death he feared his nose would fall off and then Klein went on LKL and said it was not true and I guess I saw no reason for him to lie...he really got on my nerves but he seemed to have been doing a good job in getting MJ ready for his tour..to bad he never made it to the stage:sad:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Have you ever heard anything about MJ not paying his bills very well? If so this fits right in.

You're right about crazier and crazier. jmo

Silly..there are numerous times that MJ failed to pay his bills, including a pharmacy bill ( over 100,000.00 past due), and emloyee's who had been fired..sorry cant link to them right now..but I assure you this is a history of non-payments..or tardy payments ( until threat of suing)..Even MJ went after someone within his own financial group for not paying bills..etc..

Maybe going through the links thread you can find some of those links.

LMS

[aproudmom]

That too Buzzzzzz..I do hope there are records of who was monitoring the tapes, and who was responsible etc....Unfortunately, I am afraid the tape or CD has likely been destroyed..

I wonder if the owner of the house had that security system in place already..thus a company that monitored it...orrrr did Mj have the system installed??..I am sure LE Investigations have ferreted that out already..

LMS:laugh:

:ohmy:omg I forgot about that

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I find it unusual MJ would be having his bedroom taped. :shrug:

Wasn't he more for audio alarms sounding if anyone approached his bedroom? jmo

True about those audio alarms..and BR..however that was at Neverland..and he was entertaining youngsters during that time...

Even if he didnt have camera's inside his BR ..I am sure the tapes would show comings and goings from his BR..what they were carrying, time frame etc.....I would also like to see the tapes from outside the home..comings and goings with equipments, bags, items..

LMS:w00t:

[Zenyatta]

Klein Did Surgery on Jackson in Gyno Office

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/klein-does-surgery-on-jackson-in-gyno-office/\

//snip//
We've learned Dr. Arnold Klein once took Michael Jackson to the office next door to his -- run by a gynecologist specializing in vaginal rejuvenation -- to perform a minor acne treatment on the singer under full anesthesia.

We spoke with Dr. Harvey Richmond who told us ... around 2003, Dr. Klein asked him if he could use Richmond's surgery center in his office to perform a procedure on Jackson.

Dr. Richmond says, per Klein's request, he got an anesthesiologist and a scrub tech who worked on Jackson.

Dr. Richmond says he found it "odd" that Dr. Klein performed "some sort of acne treatment" with full anesthesia. Dr. Richmond says he believes the anesthesia used was Propofol, the same drug that may have killed Jackson.
//snip//

I wonder how many hours the acne procedure took? Or was it just an excuse to administer Propofol to Jackson and fulfill Jackson's desire to be in a state of oblivion for a few hours?

I can't remember if Larry King asked Dr. Klein if he had ever administered Diprivan to Klein, and if Klein answered.

I still want to know who introduced Jackson to Diprivan, how long he'd used it and how often, and to what degree he may have been addicted to it.

If Jackson died from Propofol, how culpable are the other Doctors that encouraged its use or administered it to him over the years, even if they weren't directly responsible for any last lethal dose?

[aproudmom]

------------

I really think that a lot of the truth would come out if they could find that missing tape. jmo

if this is true then there is just some of it missing I am kinda wondering MJ was a private person surely there would not be a camera in his room..I could be wrong I guess:confused:
http://www.timessquaregossip.com/2009/07/michael-jackson-video-footage-missing.html

Insiders close to the investigation say Michael’s death - possibly his murder - was captured on camera, but the video has not been recovered. There are also gaps in some security camera footage stored on computer hard drives. Police are combing through personal computers recovered from the house."

[lilismom]

That too Buzzzzzz..I do hope there are records of who was monitoring the tapes, and who was responsible etc....Unfortunately, I am afraid the tape or CD has likely been destroyed..

I wonder if the owner of the house had that security system in place already..thus a company that monitored it...orrrr did Mj have the system installed??..I am sure LE Investigations have ferreted that out already..

LMS:laugh:



Good Friday Folks!

Do security companies monitor the inside of one's premises in real time from their location?

I would bet since that mansion is being rented out that it already has security installed, especially considering the clientele.

IMO,
Lilismom

[aproudmom]

True about those audio alarms..and BR..however that was at Neverland..and he was entertaining youngsters during that time...

Even if he didnt have camera's inside his BR ..I am sure the tapes would show comings and goings from his BR..what they were carrying, time frame etc.....I would also like to see the tapes from outside the home..comings and goings with equipments, bags, items..

LMS:w00t:

you and me both I am sure it would help alot in seeing what was going on that morning..

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Klein Did Surgery on Jackson in Gyno Office

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/klein-does-surgery-on-jackson-in-gyno-office/\

//snip//
We've learned Dr. Arnold Klein once took Michael Jackson to the office next door to his -- run by a gynecologist specializing in vaginal rejuvenation -- to perform a minor acne treatment on the singer under full anesthesia.

We spoke with Dr. Harvey Richmond who told us ... around 2003, Dr. Klein asked him if he could use Richmond's surgery center in his office to perform a procedure on Jackson.
Dr. Richmond says, per Klein's request, he got an anesthesiologist and a scrub tech who worked on Jackson.

Dr. Richmond says he found it "odd" that Dr. Klein performed "some sort of acne treatment" with full anesthesia. Dr. Richmond says he believes the anesthesia used was Propofol, the same drug that may have killed Jackson.
//snip//

I wonder how many hours the acne procedure took? Or was it just an excuse to administer Propofol to Jackson and fulfill Jackson's desire to be in a state of oblivion for a few hours?

I can't remember if Larry King asked Dr. Klein if he had ever administered Diprivan to Klein, and if Klein answered.

I still want to know who introduced Jackson to Diprivan, how long he'd used it and how often, and to what degree he may have been addicted to it.

If Jackson died from Propofol, how culpable are the other Doctors that encouraged its use or administered it to him over the years, even if they weren't directly responsible for any last lethal dose?

Well, putting my sherlock Holme's hat on, and using deductive reasoning, I would think maybe it was Dr. Klein..as bolded..he did this procedure using an aneasthetist..back in 1993...and we also know that a Dr. Ratner (aneathestist) travelled with MJ during his last tour in Europe..what in 1996ish...So it does seem that Diprivan was not something new introduced to MJ..however..it seems MJ could only find Dr. Murray to use this drug (behind closed/private home doors)..who demanded a huge salary..

In interviews with Dr. Klein..he admitted he knew MJ was using Profolo..and advised him against it....but do not recall if he was ever asked..if he had either given it to Mj or used it in his " frequent" treatments...That would be an interesting question..hummmm

Dr. Klein knew MJ over 25 years..and was well aware of his MJ's issues, health and drugs he used, perscribed ( other names)..and also had records under other names..(incognito ) yet refer to MJ within the files..He has alot to answer for as well!!

LMS

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Good Friday Folks!

Do security companies monitor the inside of one's premises in real time from their location?

I would bet since that mansion is being rented out that it already has security installed, especially considering the clientele.

IMO,
Lilismom

Given the size of this home, gated etc...I wouldnt be surprised that this house had its own "Security Room" with banks of video camera's and maybe some one monitoring them...But I am only speculating..I am sure the owners of this home would know that tho..and outside source monitoring would be likely if the Property owners wished too..In order to monitor during the house being vacant....Interesting to see how this shakes out??

LMS

[aproudmom]

did anyone notice just how long it took to get out of the driveway? they knew he was gone already the trip to the hospital was because the doctor right?

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=6292184&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529280,00.html

[Lyndawitha"Y]

---------------------
wasnt there a nurse in Dr. Klein's office that said MJ wanted to be put to sleep for days at a time?

No..the nurse from Dr. Kleins office was Debbie Rowe..MJ's x-wife who birthed Mj';s first 2 kids..I think the Nurse you are referring to is Cherilyn, the Nurse Practitioner who was in the household treating the kids with nutritional programs..and also treated MJ with supplements as well.Jan/April 2009 time period...

LMS

[Zenyatta]

Klein Did Surgery on Jackson in Gyno Office

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/klein-does-surgery-on-jackson-in-gyno-office/\

//snip//
We've learned Dr. Arnold Klein once took Michael Jackson to the office next door to his -- run by a gynecologist specializing in vaginal rejuvenation -- to perform a minor acne treatment on the singer under full anesthesia.

We spoke with Dr. Harvey Richmond who told us ... around 2003, Dr. Klein asked him if he could use Richmond's surgery center in his office to perform a procedure on Jackson.

Dr. Richmond says, per Klein's request, he got an anesthesiologist and a scrub tech who worked on Jackson.

Dr. Richmond says he found it "odd" that Dr. Klein performed "some sort of acne treatment" with full anesthesia. Dr. Richmond says he believes the anesthesia used was Propofol, the same drug that may have killed Jackson.
//snip//

I can't remember if Larry King asked Dr. Klein if he had ever administered Diprivan to Klein, and if Klein answered.




Apologies for responding to my own post.

Here's the excerpt from the LKL interview regarding Diprivan, if anyone is interested.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/08/lkl.01.html

//snip//

KING: Diprivan.

KLEIN: Diprivan.

KING: OK, now let me just -- I never get personal, but I had cataract surgery. They knock you out for a little while. You wake up and suddenly it's gone and you feel fine. And they gave me Diprivan to knock me out.

KLEIN: It's a wonderful drug when used correctly.

KING: It is. And it's used by anesthesiologists.

KLEIN: Right, because it's a very short-acting drug. It's very -- metabolized very quickly.

KING: And you go to sleep.

KLEIN: You go to sleep and it's gotten rid of from the body very quickly. But you...

KING: What would it be doing in someone's house?

KLEIN: I have no idea. And that's what doesn't make sense to me. And it's like anything, I mean, it's the danger of all these substances that are available that people can get, because the very rich and the very poor, the very -- well, the rich and the famous can buy anything they want to buy.

KING: Yes, but how would you buy Diprivan?

KLEIN: Well, you can get it from an anesthesiologist.

KING: But he'd have to come to your house?

Would you do it in your house?

KLEIN: No, certainly not, unless you have an anesthesiologist administering it to you.

There are certain things that you have to not do. And the one thing you have to know is what you're doing with medication. And medicine isn't something casual. I mean I developed, you know, certain things in my life -- not a lot, but the way -- the sites that use botox on certain injectable fillers. And I mean that's my life. And I mean the big thing that I see is you see so many people giving botox parties and things like this. And this makes no sense because this is just medicine.

KING: I don't talk about that.

All right, did Michael tell you he used Diprivan?

KLEIN: I knew at one point that he was using Diprivan when he was on tour in Germany. And so he was using it, with an anesthesiologist, to go to sleep at night. And I told him he was absolutely insane. I said you have to understand that this drug, you can't repeatedly take. Because what happens with narcotics, no matter what you do, you build a tolerance to them.

KING: How could a reasonable anesthesiologist give that to someone other than prior to surgery?

KLEIN: Because I have to tell you, there are certain people in this world who are not reasonable. You know, integrity in medicine does (INAUDIBLE)...

KING: Wouldn't you lose a license if you were giving it for other than?

KLEIN: Anesthesiology?

I mean people have used everything for everything. But there are so many -- I mean let's not -- don't get me into the topic of integrity in medicine now, because, I mean, that's what's happening in the FDA and all the recommendations of drugs. So that's not a...

KING: Are you surprised that Diprivan was found in his home, supposedly?

KLEIN: I am very shocked by it. But I have to tell you that it's not something that would be unheard of because I told him that this drug was very dangerous to use on a regular basis.

KING: And what did he say when you told him?

KLEIN: Well, he listened to me. But you can't...

KING: And?

KLEIN: Well, you can't...

KING: You can't force him.

KLEIN: ...be absolutely sure that you're enforcing it. I spent half -- I spent half a year living with heroin addicts and writing a book about my experiences when I was in medical school, when I went to England after the death of my father and brother.

And what I learned from experience is you couldn't really ever be assured that you're getting honest information from someone who is an addict.

KING: Yes. Because they lie.

KLEIN: Well, they lie, because they want to procure medication.

KING: Did you ever see any I.V. type equipment in his house? KLEIN: Never.

KING: Did you ever see Diprivan in his home?

Did you ever see it anywhere...

KLEIN: No.

KING: ...associated with him?

KLEIN: I mean I never did. And I also told him specifically the dangers of the Diprivan -- the dangers of it being used by someone who is not an anesthesiologist or someone very (INAUDIBLE).

KING: Did he have an insomnia problem?

KLEIN: Not that I knew of, except that once we went on tour with him. We were in Hawaii. He couldn't get to sleep. So the whole -- me and my whole office went to sleep in the room with him.

So I never knew that he had a problem with sleep until this whole tour came up or basically this problem with sleep at that time. I did know that he did certain, you know, local anesthesia. But this is not something we discussed repeatedly, except I just got shocked. He assured me he had stopped.

KING: And he never asked you to administer it, did he?

KLEIN: No. I mean...

KING: And you wouldn't, I guess? That's an...

KLEIN: It's not what I do.

KING: No, I know.

KLEIN: I'm a doctor. I'm a dermatologist. I'm not going to be (INAUDIBLE)...

//snip//

Klein implies he never directly administered Diprivan to Jackson, though I think both King's questions and Klein's answers are frustratingly vague.

I wish King would have asked, "Dr. Klein, did you ever administer Propofol to Michael Jackson? Did you ever have anyone else administer Propofol to Michael Jackson?"

So either TMZ is reporting misinformation, Dr. Richmond is mistaken, or someone is lying and/or being intentionally vague to obfuscate the truth.

JMO.

[GentleBreeze]

Given the size of this home, gated etc...I wouldn't be surprised that this house had its own "Security Room" with banks of video camera's and maybe some one monitoring them...But I am only speculating..I am sure the owners of this home would know that tho..and outside source monitoring would be likely if the Property owners wished too..In order to monitor during the house being vacant....Interesting to see how this shakes out??

LMS

It seems to me that the tape would have to go missing before 911 was called. Didn't the police come there shortly after then?

I thought LE was putting up crime scene tape the first day so I don't see how anyone could have lifted it after it was known that MJ had been taken to the hospital.

imo

[Lyndawitha"Y]

It seems to me that the tape would have to go missing before 911 was called. Didn't the police come there shortly after then?

I thought LE was putting up crime scene tape the first day so I don't see how anyone could have lifted it after it was known that MJ had been taken to the hospital.

imo

Yepper..and it would explain the delay in calling the 911 too..Just one more item to cleanup or get rid of....Just yet another possible red flag waving...

LMS

[Lyndawitha"Y]

--------------
I thought it was another nurse from Dr.Kleins office. but u may be right.

You know what??..Maybe there was such a person..but given so much in the media..especially TMZ..who knows at this stage??..I was only relating my recollection Buzzzzzz

LMS

[Zenyatta]

Well, putting my sherlock Holme's hat on, and using deductive reasoning, I would think maybe it was Dr. Klein..as bolded..he did this procedure using an aneasthetist..back in 1993...and we also know that a Dr. Ratner (aneathestist) travelled with MJ during his last tour in Europe..what in 1996ish...So it does seem that Diprivan was not something new introduced to MJ..however..it seems MJ could only find Dr. Murray to use this drug (behind closed/private home doors)..who demanded a huge salary..

In interviews with Dr. Klein..he admitted he knew MJ was using Profolo..and advised him against it....but do not recall if he was ever asked..if he had either given it to Mj or used it in his " frequent" treatments...That would be an interesting question..hummmm

Dr. Klein knew MJ over 25 years..and was well aware of his MJ's issues, health and drugs he used, perscribed ( other names)..and also had records under other names..(incognito ) yet refer to MJ within the files..He has alot to answer for as well!!

LMS


Thanks, Lynda. I started out being pretty angry at Mr. Jackson. I am becoming increasingly angry at these "medical professionals" as circumstances unfold.

If Propofol is responsible for Jackson's death, and Murray was responsible for the lethal dose, I hope he's criminally prosecuted. But I hope it's not just a case of him being the one that was unfortunate enough to be there when the inevitable happened (or the "last one standing," as his attorney stated -- not that I agree with Murray or Chernoff), and that other Doctors who allowed Jackson to use the drug inappropriately are also held responsible.

JMO and off my soapbox now.

[lilismom]

Yepper..and it would explain the delay in calling the 911 too..Just one more item to cleanup or get rid of....Just yet another possible red flag waving...

LMS

My thinking as well Lyndawitha "Y". Can't forget that Y! :) I don't know if we'll ever know what all went on in those 30 minutes, if in fact it was only 30 minutes before 911 was called.

IMO,
Lilismom

[Zenyatta]

It seems to me that the tape would have to go missing before 911 was called. Didn't the police come there shortly after then?

I thought LE was putting up crime scene tape the first day so I don't see how anyone could have lifted it after it was known that MJ had been taken to the hospital.

imo

Weren't family members allowed to enter the property and remove items? Didn't someone show up with a moving van or large vehicle? (Gee, it seems like that was so long ago).

How about staff members?

[aproudmom]

---------------------
wasnt there a nurse in Dr. Klein's office that said MJ wanted to be put to sleep for days at a time?

yes you are correct not that it is true but your correct it was reported..
not sure who she worked for...


He would spend up to 72 hours lying "like a living corpse", according to former plastic surgery nurse Kathryn Buschelle.

Kathryn, 41, the long-term partner of one of Jacko's surgeons, said the star became addicted after being given Diprivan to cope with the pain of continuous laser facial peels to lighten his skin
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07142009/news/nationalnews/jacko_wanted_to_be_put_under_for_days_at_179212.ht m

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2533874/Michael-Jackson-begged-doctors-Put-me-to-sleep.html

[aproudmom]

Weren't family members allowed to enter the property and remove items? Didn't someone show up with a moving van or large vehicle? (Gee, it seems like that was so long ago).

How about staff members?

yes that Saturday the moving trucks came in IIRC the 27th 2 days after he died

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I can actually imagine the Doc hooking him up...sitting there for a bit...then he probably went to the kitchen, for a snack, like he had on many of nights....or took a nap. I imagine watching someone knocked out is about as stimuating as watching paint dry. imo

Ya it is rather boring, however that is what alarms are for..as long as you are within earshot..one can intervene ..it seems Dr. Murray either didnt have such equipment..or he left MJ unattended for a very long period of time...and if you give any credence to descriptions by EMT's..It does seem MJ had been passed far more than the 30 minutes suggested by the 911 call..I am suspicious on that one..

LMS

[aproudmom]

Weren't family members allowed to enter the property and remove items? Didn't someone show up with a moving van or large vehicle? (Gee, it seems like that was so long ago).

How about staff members?

sorry forgot the link


The singer's possessions were being removed from the house for safekeeping, People magazine reported, due to concern that someone could break into the home.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529280,00.html

[Lyndawitha"Y]

yes you are correct not that it is true but your correct it was reported..
not sure who she worked for...


He would spend up to 72 hours lying "like a living corpse", according to former plastic surgery nurse Kathryn Buschelle.

Kathryn, 41, the long-term partner of one of Jacko's surgeons, said the star became addicted after being given Diprivan to cope with the pain of continuous laser facial peels to lighten his skin
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07142009/news/nationalnews/jacko_wanted_to_be_put_under_for_days_at_179212.ht m

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2533874/Michael-Jackson-begged-doctors-Put-me-to-sleep.html

Good for you...I never heard this one..so TY..:wub:

LMS

[Zenyatta]

yes that Saturday the moving trucks came in IIRC the 27th 2 days after he died

Thanks!

I remember discussions expressing concern that the crime scene had not been sealed.

[lilismom]

Damn simple. Cover his A$$ and get the hell out of Dodge and Lawyer up ASAP. No rocket science here IMO.

All while Michael lay dead. Sad ain't it?

Have a wonderful weekend.

IMO,
Lilismom

[aproudmom]

ok 10 people 2 SUV's followed the ambulance..

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://x17online.com/jacksonhosp625.jpg&imgrefurl=http://x17online.com/celebrities/michael_jackson/first_pix_michael_jackson_rushed_to_the_hospital-06252009.php&usg=__yst1tML8liFC9dkVuBCOvdxm0_w=&h=462&w=460&sz=42&hl=en&start=17&um=1&tbnid=Ys0EwU3S0lb4iM:&tbnh=128&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfamily%2Barrive%2Bat%2Bmichael%2Bjack son%2527s%2Bmansion%2Bthe%2Bday%2Bhe%2Bdied%26hl%3 Den%26rlz%3D1T4ADBF_enUS294US295%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1

[Zenyatta]

yes you are correct not that it is true but your correct it was reported..
not sure who she worked for...


He would spend up to 72 hours lying "like a living corpse", according to former plastic surgery nurse Kathryn Buschelle.

Kathryn, 41, the long-term partner of one of Jacko's surgeons, said the star became addicted after being given Diprivan to cope with the pain of continuous laser facial peels to lighten his skin
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07142009/news/nationalnews/jacko_wanted_to_be_put_under_for_days_at_179212.ht m

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2533874/Michael-Jackson-begged-doctors-Put-me-to-sleep.html

Thank you for this, aproudmom. Much appreciated.

So now it's reported, or rumored, that Jackson's Diprivan addiction started with its use for laser peels.

Were any of these Doctors aware of Jackson's previous and/or existing problems/dependency on prescription drugs? Did they give any thought that they might be exposing someone vulnerable to addiction or dependency to yet another dangerously addictive drug?

While the source isn't perfect, here's some more food for thought:

http://www.howcast.com/guides/3613-How-To-Understand-the-Dangers-Of-Diprivan-Propofol-Abuse

//snip//
Recovering drug addicts are cautioned against receiving Diprivan because it can trigger a relapse.
//snip//

I don't have the time or inclination to verify this in a medical journal or more credible source. But I can't help but wonder, if this is true (which should be something a medical professional be aware of), why anyone would use it during a DETOX process, something that has also been speculated upon as an excuse for using Diprivan.

[aproudmom]

Good for you...I never heard this one..so TY..:wub:

LMS

do we know who she worked for? it was not Klein right..oh and no problem I knew what buzz was talking about and kinda wondered her story since it has been awhile...lol..

[lilismom]

Fateful Letter From Dr. Conrad Murray Revealed

http://www.etonline.com/news/2009/07/76818/

IF this is the actual letter, is it me or does the font seem a little unprofessional? Also, how about instead of "Because of" how about "Due to" or "I am proud to announce that".

Probably just the secretary in me.

IMO,
Lilismom

[cutiepatootie61]

wow !!! Wonder who they all were?????? Thanks for posting this

Article states that MJ arrived at 1:10PM after suffering cardiac arrest 2 hours before. What time would 11:10AM in California be in Houston? Anyone? I wonder if there is some deception to the women removing boxes in Dr. Murray's storage unit. Also, why the 1 hour and 10 minute delay in calling 911?

[aproudmom]

wow !!! Wonder who they all were?????? Thanks for posting this

I don't know you think maybe bodyguards and the kids heck I had not heard that until today..I just wonder if all of them were at the mansion that morning I keep seeing the same 2 bodyguards and we know the kids ended up there..maybe someone went and got his mother..:confused:

[Zenyatta]

I don't think "professional" and Dr. Murray even belong in the same sentence. imo

Understatement of the day.

From the link:

Addressing the letter to "patients and friends," Murray said he was seeking a "suitable replacement [doctor]" for himself, but intended to "manage the practice, and be involved as much as possible [from afar]," stating also, "please know my absence is not permanent."
//end//

I'm thinking his absence may be permanent.

[Zenyatta]

Article states that MJ arrived at 1:10PM after suffering cardiac arrest 2 hours before. What time would 11:10AM in California be in Houston? Anyone? I wonder if there is some deception to the women removing boxes in Dr. Murray's storage unit. Also, why the 1 hour and 10 minute delay in calling 911?

TMZ can explain it better than I can:

Jackson's Time of Death In Question

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/24/michael-jackson-propofol-911-time-of-death/

Law enforcement sources tell TMZ Dr. Conrad Murray was not in Michael Jackson's room when his heart stopped.

As we first reported, authorities believe Jackson died from an overdose of the powerful anesthesia Propofol. Sources say the LAPD believes Dr. Murray may have administered it.

This raises an even bigger question. Dr. Murray called 911 at 12:21 PM. He says he discovered Jackson in distress a half hour before. But why, then, did Dr. Murray's employees make a sudden trip to the Dr.'s storage facility in Houston at 9:22 AM Los Angeles time? Could Jackson have been lifeless hours before the 911 call?

//snip//

[aproudmom]

ok MJ died on the 25th the moving trucks came in on the 27th and then finally on the 29th LE shows up..all the family and the Hilton's had been in and out of the home..why would LE not keep everyone out until they knew what or why he died...not that any of the family did anything but I watched all of them coming and going from even the night he died it is all on YouTube....


sorry you have to scroll down there are several videos and I can not link them separate..
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.x17video.com/lowres/mjcar062509.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.x17video.com/celebrity_video/michael_jackson/&usg=__PT3YZNKJ8UPiXZGlabc5pVJEhA0=&h=300&w=400&sz=21&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=h2T0C8B4BEK2VM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkathy%2Bhilton%2Barrives%2Bat%2Bmicha el%2Bjackson%2527s%2Bmansion%2Bthe%2Bday%2Bhe%2Bdi ed%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4ADBF_enUS294US 295%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1

[Lyndawitha"Y]

do we know who she worked for? it was not Klein right..oh and no problem I knew what buzz was talking about and kinda wondered her story since it has been awhile...lol..

I dont know for sure..however it does describe her as being a parnter with some surgeon..So i have to take she either worked in that office that Dr. Klein (next door) took MJ to do his "Procedures" under aneasthetic..and used also a technician and Aneasthetist to actually put him under...What was that Dr. Name..Armstrong..something like that..and apparantly he turned over the files to LE..no probs...So guess we will have to see how this all shakes out too...So many people involved at so many levels...

LMS

[Zenyatta]

----------------

lol not what i meant.

I think I know what you meant. Maybe he wasn't taping his Diprivan sessions.

[cutiepatootie61]

Stacey Howe a former employee of Dr. Murray's?

They searched the office for 3 1/2 hours Wednesday, confiscating a computer, a Rolodex card with FedEx information and e-mails from one of Murray's former employees

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-me-jackson24-2009jul24,0,1803993.story?track=rss

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I think I know what you meant. Maybe he wasn't taping his Diprivan sessions.

If this was true..then maybe there is some sort of timelines that can be sorted out..such as go back for maybe a few weeks..and see just which nights or hours are missing..maybe get s pattern or something...

Then of course..maybe it just taped over and over again on the same DVD..Howver..not sure an elaborate system such as this would archive their surveilances..Just think outloud here??

LMS

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Stacey Howe a former employee of Dr. Murray's?

They searched the office for 3 1/2 hours Wednesday, confiscating a computer, a Rolodex card with FedEx information and e-mails from one of Murray's former employees

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-me-jackson24-2009jul24,0,1803993.story?track=rss

Again..Who the heck knows??? She is somehow associated with either the Doctor or the office somehow..Manager I think I heard..

LMS

[GentleBreeze]

-------------
MJ himself or he had someone on the staff remove it. but this is JMO

Why would he do that?

Why have a sophisticated security system if he wasn't going to use it?

:confused:

[aproudmom]

----------------

lol not what i meant.

:laugh:I could use a nerve pill about now it is getting hard not say anything..DUCT TAPE???what the heck are you talking about did I miss it:wink:

[GentleBreeze]

I don't think MJ was taping anything going on in his bedroom. jmo

But it seems very likely he would in the hallway entering his bedroom.

I thought a part of the missing tape was around the time line when everything went haywire the day he died?

imo

[aproudmom]

----------------

lol not what i meant.

never mind my bad should have read up a little more..thought you meant duct tape..

[Zenyatta]

If this was true..then maybe there is some sort of timelines that can be sorted out..such as go back for maybe a few weeks..and see just which nights or hours are missing..maybe get s pattern or something...

Then of course..maybe it just taped over and over again on the same DVD..Howver..not sure an elaborate system such as this would archive their surveilances..Just think outloud here??

LMS

Lynda,

You are reading my mind. I was thinking aloud, and thinking the exact same thing.

For some reason, I have the impression that a security conscious Michael might be inclined to archive his tapes/recordings, rather than record over them, but I have no idea.

Then again, IF there are archives, God forbid that ol' Joe should get his hands on them.

[GentleBreeze]

I still think it would be hard for a deceased person to remove the tape.

imo...of course.

I sure wouldn't want to be around if and when they did.:ohmy:

imo

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Lynda,

You are reading my mind. I was thinking aloud, and thinking the exact same thing.

For some reason, I have the impression that a security conscious Michael might be inclined to archive his tapes/recordings, rather than record over them, but I have no idea.

Then again, IF there are archives, God forbid that ol' Joe should get his hands on them.

Thank Gawd..I am not the only one stepping back and wondering things..Of course we dont know..its just "Food for thought" tho!!

Welcome to the "Sherlock" side of mind bend..LOL

LMS:laugh:

[GentleBreeze]

ok MJ died on the 25th the moving trucks came in on the 27th and then finally on the 29th LE shows up..all the family and the Hilton's had been in and out of the home..why would LE not keep everyone out until they knew what or why he died...not that any of the family did anything but I watched all of them coming and going from even the night he died it is all on YouTube....


sorry you have to scroll down there are several videos and I can not link them separate..
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.x17video.com/lowres/mjcar062509.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.x17video.com/celebrity_video/michael_jackson/&usg=__PT3YZNKJ8UPiXZGlabc5pVJEhA0=&h=300&w=400&sz=21&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=h2T0C8B4BEK2VM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkathy%2Bhilton%2Barrives%2Bat%2Bmicha el%2Bjackson%2527s%2Bmansion%2Bthe%2Bday%2Bhe%2Bdi ed%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4ADBF_enUS294US 295%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1

Ok now I am confused then. I thought the first day it happened and Murray's car was left there because he went with MJ in the ambulance the reporters at the scene (home) said that LE were putting crime tape up around the Doc's car.

:confused:

[aproudmom]

Ok now I am confused then. I thought the first day it happened and Murray's car was left there because he went with MJ in the ambulance the reporters at the scene (home) said that LE were putting crime tape up around the Doc's car.

:confused:

from the link I posted and got called out on for posting old links it showed them taping it off on the 29th and you are right the car was towed 2 days prior..it seemed like as soon at that nurse started talking with in hours they were at the house not that her interviews is the reason but she kept saying they had not talked to her yet and she was doing all the interviews about this drug..

[aproudmom]

-----------------

lol i was wondering what u meant about duct tape. lol

just overlook me sorry about that..:biggrin:

[Zenyatta]

Ok now I am confused then. I thought the first day it happened and Murray's car was left there because he went with MJ in the ambulance the reporters at the scene (home) said that LE were putting crime tape up around the Doc's car.

:confused:

I'm with you over the confusion. But before I joined this board, I distinctly remember conversations amongst cable's talking heads over concern that LE's failure to immediately seal the scene might come back to haunt them later. Remember?