Amanda Knox Testimony

[KnoxCase]

The following is the readable version of Amanda Knox's testimony from June 2009.

I'd made a copy and thought why not post it.

[KnoxCase]

9:30 Saturday morning, June 13, 2009

[Discussion between lawyers, in particular advice to avoid repeating questions
already posed. Background noise and admonitions of "shhh". Also lengthy
discussion of the presence of television cameras, photographers. Final
conclusion: they still have to stay out except for some minutes at the
beginning and/or end.]

9:40 [A lot of background noise, talking in the public.] If the public could
politely cease the noise and comments...yes...we could begin the audience.
[He recalls: trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, all the names
of lawyers involved, defense and prosecution, "parti civili".]

He invites Amanda to state her identity again, which she does.

The interrogation is by the "pubblico ministero" [Mignini].

All right, Miss Knox, can you tell us about when you first met Raffaele
Sollecito?

It was at a concert at the Universita per Stranieri, I think it was on Oct 25.

October 25?

So I've understood [odd remark: meaning "so I've been told?"]

So it was just about a week before the facts, more or less. Now, on the
afternoon and evening of Oct 31, can you tell us what you did?

In the evening?

Afternoon and evening.

So, in the afternoon, I remember that I met a friend for coffee, my friend
Spiros. We had coffee in the center, and then in the street when I was going
back to meet Raffaele, I was still with him and I met someone I had gotten to
know at "Le Chic", who said "We'll see each other later at Le Chic"...

You said "We'll see each other later?"

Yes, yes.

To whom? To Raffaele's friend?

No, no. It was my friend, that I had gotten to know in a bar, a cafe that
also had internet service, and then, okay. What happened next? [Long
pause with sound 'ummmmm', 'hmmm'.] Did I go home? I can't remember.

You can't remember.

And then, for Halloween, I know I went to Le Chic first, and then after I was
there for a little while, I again met Spiros, outside the Merlin, and we went
to a place with a bunch of his friends, I can't remember what place it was
now, a kind of Irish pub, and then he...I said I was tired and wanted to
meet Raffaele in the center, and so he accompanied me on foot to near the
church, where I met Raffaele, who took me to his apartment.

Now. [I'm using "Now" today to translate "Senta" which really means "Listen",
but starting a question with "Listen" in English makes it sound kind of
aggressive, which for now Mignini's voice is not. Rather, quiet and very
poised.] Have you ever made use of drugs? In particular on the afternoon
or the evening of Nov 1?

I did smoke a joint with Raffaele in the evening, yes.

So you do confirm this detail.

Yes.

So now we get to Patrick's message.

Okay.

So, Patrick's message came, I believe you said, at 8:15.

Yes.

More or less. What did it say exactly?

I don't remember the exact words...

[Interrupts] Was it in Italian? Was it in Italian?

Yes, it was in Italian. It had to do with the fact that there wasn't anyone
at Le Chic so I didn't need to go to work.

And you saw this message at around what time?

Uh, I don't remember the time.

But was it after a little while or right away?

I was on Raffaele's bed and then I noticed that there was this symbol on my
phone.

But you don't remember when?

No. I don't look at the clock.

And you answered Patrick -- how did you answer?

Well, I wrote something like "Okay, see you later ["ci vediamo piu -- um --
tardi"], buona serata.


You answered in which language?

In Italian. He didn't speak English.

"Ci vediamo piu tardi", you said.

Yes.

OK --

Which in English means "See you" --

Yes but, excuse me, but you answered in Italian.

Yes.

"Ci vediamo piu tardi."

He doesn't speak English.

Very well. It follows that your cell phone [gives number] and Sollecito's
[gives number] stopped their activity respectively, yours at 8:35 and
his at 8:42. Why?

I turned mine off, because I didn't want to get another message from Patrick,
because actually I didn't really want to go to work. For example, he
had told me that I didn't have to work, but if then a bunch of people showed
up, well honestly, he had told me I didn't have to go to work and I wanted
to stay with Raffaele.

Yesterday if I'm not mistaken, you said that you did it to stay with
Raffaele.

Yes.

On page 40 (I don't know if it corresponds) of the minutes of your interrogation
of December 17, you said, I'll read it, that: "I turned off my phone to
save my battery." Do you remember that?

Well, if it's written there, it must be okay.

Today you're saying one thing, in the interrogation you said another. [Voice
intervenes: can you be more precise about the page?] Page 40: I'll read it.
"But why did you turn off your phone?" Interrogation of Dec 17. "To save
my battery." "Do you usually keep it on at night?" [Voices arguing, a bit
annoyed, they can't find it in the text?] Well, bottom of page 39, but these
were the words. Knox's answer: "To save my battery." "Do you usually keep
it on at night?" "If I have something to do the next morning." "But the
next morning was the day on which everyone skipped school." "But we were
supposed to go to Gubbio the next day with Raffaele." The next day was the
2nd?

Mhm.

You wanted to go to Gubbio on the 2nd or the 3rd?

No, on the 2nd we wanted to go to Gubbio.

So, you turned off your telephone so Patrick wouldn't be able to call you in
to work, or you turned it off to save your battery, not to use up your
battery. Now, you remember what, what battery you had? what kind of autonomy
it had?

What kind of battery?

Yes.

I don't know what type of battery it was, but...

The autonomy of the battery? Do you remember?

I think it was about one or two days. It wasn't very long, but in the end,
well, for example, the next morning, I was going to go to Gubbio, but
I didn't have time to charge up the battery, so I thought, I don't want to
get any phone calls this evening, and if I want to have my phone with me
in Gubbio, I wanted it to be reasonably charged up. That's why I turned it off.

I see. Now -- are we hearing something from the "contestazione"?
[Voices arguing] In fact, yesterday Amanda Knox stated that turning off the
cell phone was to guarantee her a free evening without being...[interruption]
But at the interrogation of Dec 17 she said...On Dec 17 she said it was
to save battery and also for this reason [different voices, can't
tell who is saying what, but I think this is Ghirga. Also they are
interrupting each other]. So, I thought I understood that she had two
reasons. We're not arguing about that. The "contestazione" isn't about that. It's about... Please, please, let's return to the cross-examination by the
pubblico ministero. The defense lawyers will have the final words. Everyone will hear what they have to say then.

[KnoxCase]

The objection was because the request to introduce...[A bit more yelling.]
Enough now ["adesso basta"].

[I think this is Ghirga] My objection concerned the fact that the pubblico
ministero seemed to contest the fact that in the Dec 17 interrogation, she
also explained that she turned off her phone because she didn't want to be
called by Patrick, because she didn't want to be disturbed. This doesn't
correspond to the truth, because on page 40 of the minutes, she actually
says "So, I turned it off also to not run the risk that Patrick would
change his mind and call me in." [Interruption] "To save her battery!"
"All right, we heard the pubblico ministero...we heard him describe a reason,
two reasons, if there's a contradiction, there will be an analysis. It's
not only half a contradiction, or not a contradiction." [different voices]
Now let's leave this question...please, pubblico ministero. Go ahead. [I'm
using this expression to translate "prego".]

Why? erm-ahem -- why did you return to this point several times?
Okay.

Why did you speak about Patrick only in the interrogation of Nov 6 at 1:45?
Why didn't you mention him before? You never mentioned him before.

Before what?

In your preceding declarations, on Nov 2 at 15:30, on Nov 3 at 14:45, then,
there was another one, Nov 4, 14:45, and then there's Nov 6, 1:45. Only
in these declarations, and then in the following spontaneous declarations,
did you mention the name of Patrick. Why hadn't you ever mentioned him before?

Because that was the one where they suggested Patrick's name to me.

All right, now is the time for you to make this precise and specific. At
this point I will take...no, I'll come back to it later. You need to
explain this. You have stated: "The name of Patrick was suggested to me.
I was hit, pressured."

Yes.

Now you have to tell me in a completely detailed way, you have to remember
for real, you have to explain step by step, who, how, when, was the name of
Patrick suggested to you, and what had been done before that point, when
the name of Patrick hadn't yet come up like a mushroom; in the preceding
situation. Who put pressure on you, what do you mean by the word "pressure",
who hit you. You said: "They hit me", and at the request of the lawyer
Ghirga, yesterday, you described two little blows, two cuffs.

Yes.

So that would be what you meant by being hit?

Yes.

Or something else? Tell me if there was something else. You can tell us.

Okay.

[Interruption by Ghirga, to explain, I guess to Amanda, that the pubblico
ministero is coming back to the same terrain covered yesterday, in order to
give her the chance to add detail.]

All right [Amanda says]. Okay.

If you could give more detail, be more precise, exactly what was suggested to
you, about the cuffs, all that.

Okay.

And who did all this, if you can.


Okay. Fine. So, when I got to the Questura, they placed me to the side, near
the elevator, where I was waiting for Raffaele. I had taken my homework, and
was starting to do my homework, but a policeman came in, in fact there were
I don't know, three of them or something, and they wanted to go on talking to
me. They asked me again --

Excuse me, excuse me --

-- to tell them --

Excuse me for interrupting you otherwise we'll forget --

[Ghirga] I object to this interruption! The question was asked...[Yelling,
interruptions, "It's impossible to question someone this way! There's a
rule that says one should avoid any interruptions. She has the right to
finish her answer. It's not possible to go on like this, no, no, no..."
interrupting...Mignini starts "I can" -- Ghirga: "no, nobody can! We have
to make sure that when someone is speaking, there's no superimposing of
voices. And since the accused is undergoing examination, she has the right
to be allowed to answer in the calmest possible way. Interruptions and
talking at the same time don't help, and they can't be written down in the
minutes, which obliges the courts to suspend the audience and start it again
at a calmer and more tranquil moment." Mignini starts again: "Presidente..."
Ghirga: "No, no, no! Interruptions are not allowed! The accused is
allowed to answer without interruption, and then when she's done, you can go
back and ask questions" -- interruption -- "please! While she's speaking,
everyone is requested to see that she is not interrupted. During her
exposition one could ask "When?" for instance if she is saying
"I was doing homework" -- Amanda: "Okay". Ghirga: "If you say precise dates
and times, they won't need to come back over your testimony." "Okay."
"In your exposition, be more detailed about the time and the date."

Okay. Um --

[Ghirga:] So everyone is asked to avoid interruptions while she is speaking,
and when she's finished, we can go over what she said. Go ahead.

Thank you. So, here is...how I understood the question, I'm answering about
what happened to me on the night of the 5th and the morning of the 6th of
November 2007, and when we got to the Questura, I think it was around
10:30 or nearer 11, but I'm sorry, I don't know the times very precisely,
above all during that interrogation. [End of Audio #1

[KnoxCase]

starting Audio #2.]
The more the confusion grew, the more I lost the sense of time. But I
didn't do my homework for a very long time. I was probably just reading the
first paragraph of what I had to read, when these policemen came to sit
near me, to ask me to help them by telling them who had ever entered in
our house. So I told them, okay, well there was this girlfriend of mine and
they said no no no, they only wanted to know about men. So I said okay,
here are the names of the people I know, but really I don't know, and they
said, names of anyone you saw nearby, so I said, there are some people that
are friends of the boys, or of the girls, whom I don't know very well,
and it went on like this, I kept on answering these questions, and finally
at one point, while I was talking to them, they said "Okay, we'll take
you into this other room." So I said okay and went with them, and they started
asking me to talk about what I had been doing that evening. At least, they
kept asking about the last time I saw Meredith, and then about everything
that happened the next morning, and we had to repeat again and again everything
about what I did. Okay, so I told them, but they always kept wanting times
and schedules, and time segments: "what did you do between 7 and 8?" "And
from 8 to 9? And from 9 to 10?" I said look, I can't be this precise, I
can tell you the flow of events, I played the guitar, I went to the house,
I looked at my e-mails, I read a book, and I was going on like this.
There were a lot people coming in and going out all the time, and there was
one policeman always in front of me, who kept going on about this. Then at
one point an interpreter arrived, and the interpreter kept on telling me,
try to remember the times, try to remember the times, times, times, times,
and I kept saying "I don't know. I remember the movie, I remember the dinner,
I remember what I ate," and she kept saying "How can you you remember this
thing but not that thing?" or "How can you not remember how you were dressed?"
because I was thinking, I had jeans, but were they dark or light, I just
can't remember. And then she said "Well, someone is telling us that you were
not at Raffaele's house. Raffaele is saying that at these times you were not
home." And I said, but what is he saying, that I wasn't there? I was there!
Maybe I can't say exactly what I was doing every second, every minute, because
I didn't look at the time. I know that I saw the movie, I ate dinner. And
she would say "No no no, you saw the film at this time, and then after that
time you went out of the house. You ate dinner with Raffaele, and then there
is this time where you did nothing, and this time where you were out of the
house. And I said, no, that's not how it was. I was always in Raffaele's
apartment.

[Ghirga, after his long discussion about interruptions above, actually
takes advantage of a tiny pause here to slip in: "Excuse me, excuse me, the
pubblico ministero wants to hear precise details about the suggestions about
what to say and the cuffs, who gave them to you."]

All right. What it was was a continuous crescendo of these discussions and
arguments, because while I was discussing with them, in the end they started
to little by little and then more and more these remarks about "We're not
convinced by you, because you seem to be able to remember one thing but not
remember another thing. We don't understand how you could take a shower
without seeing..." And then, they kept on asking me "Are you sure of what
you're saying? Are you sure? Are you sure? If you're not sure, we'll take
you in front of a judge, and you'll go to prison, if you're not telling the
truth." Then they told me this thing about how Raffaele was saying that
I had gone out of the house. I said look, it's impossible. I don't know if
he's really saying that or not, but look, I didn't go out of the house.
And they said "No, you're telling a lie. You'd better remember what you did
for real, because otherwise you're going to prison for 30 years because you're
a liar." I said no, I'm not a liar. And they said "Are you sure you're not
protecting someone?" I said no, I'm not protecting anyone. And they said
"We're sure you're protecting someone." Who, who, who, who did you meet when
you went out of Raffaele's house?" I didn't go out. "Yes, you did go out.
Who were you with?" I don't know. I didn't do anything. "Why didn't you
go to work?" Because my boss told me I didn't have to go to work. "Let's see
your telephone to see if you have that message." Sure, take it. "All right,
So one policeman took it, and started looking in it, while the others kept
on yelling "We know you met someone, somehow, but why did you meet someone?"
But I kept saying no, no, I didn't go out, I'm not pro-pro-pro---

[Ghirga again I think, slipping into a tiny hole created by her stammering
over the word "protecting" -- interestingly by the way, she stammered badly
over pronouncing this word earlier as well -- an Eyes for Lies red flag??]

Excuse me, okay, we understand that there was a continuous crescendo.

Yes.

As you said earlier. But if we could now get to the questions of the pubblico
ministero, otherwise it will really be impossible to avoid some interruptions.
If you want to be able to continue as tranquilly, as continuously as possible...

Okay, I'm sorry.

[KnoxCase]

So, if you could get to the questions about exactly when, exactly who...these
suggestions, exactly what did they consist in? It seems to me...

Okay. Fine. So, they had my telephone, and at one point they said "Okay,
we have this message that you sent to Patrick", and I said I don't think I did,
and they yelled "Liar! Look! This is your telephone, and here's your
message saying you wanted to meet him!" And I didn't even remember that I
had written him a message. But okay, I must have done it. And they were saying
that the message said I wanted to meet him. That was one thing. Then there
was the fact that there was this interpreter next to me, and she was telling
me "Okay, either you are an incredibly stupid liar, or you're not able to
remember anything you've done." So I said, how could that be? And she said,
"Maybe you saw something so tragic, so terrible that you can't remember it.
Because I had a terrible accident once where I broke my leg..."

The interpreter said this to you?

Yes.

I also wanted to ask you because it isn't clear to me: only the interpreter
spoke to you, or the others also?

All the others also.

Everyone was talking to you, all the others, but were they speaking in English?

No, in Italian.

In Italian. And you answered in Italian?

In Italian, in English...

And what was said to you in Italian, did it get translated to you in English?

A bit yes, a bit no, there was so much confusion, there were so many people
all talking at the same time, one saying "Maybe it was like this, maybe
you don't remember," another saying "No, she's a stupid liar," like that...

But everything was eventually translated, or you understood some of it and
answered right away?

It wasn't like an interrogation, like what we're doing now, where one person
asks me a question and I answer. No. There were so many people talking,
asking, waiting, and I answered a bit here and there.

All right. You were telling us that the interpreter was telling you about
something that had happened to her. [Interruption: Ghirga: This isn't
a spontaneous declaration now. This is an examination. That means the
pubblico ministero has asked you a question, always the same question, and
we still haven't really heard the answer to it.]

Yes, sorry.

Right, so you were saying that there was this continuous crescendo.

It's difficult for me to say that one specific person said one specific thing.
It was the fact that there were all these little suggestions, and someone
was saying that there was the telephone, then there was the fact that...
then more than anything what made me try to imagine something was someone
saying to me "Maybe you're confused, maybe you're confused and you should
try to remember something different. Try to find these memories that
obviously you have somehow lost. You have to try to remember them. So I
was there thinking, but what could I have forgotten? And I was thinking,
what have I forgotten? what have I forgotten? and they were shouting
"Come on, come on, come on, remember, remember, remember," and boom! on
my head. "Remember!" And I was like -- Mamma Mia! and then boom!

Excuse me, excuse me, please, excuse me...

Those were the cuffs.

[Voices: "This is impossible!" "Avoid thinking aloud!"]

[Ghirga:] So, the pubblico ministero asked you, and is still asking you,
who is the person that gave you these two blows that you just showed us
with a gesture?

It was a policewoman, but I didn't know their names.

Go ahead, pubblico ministero.

So, now, I asked you a question, and I did not get an answer. You ...
[interruptions! Ghirga: "I object to that remark! That is a personal
evaluation! Presidente! That is very suggestive. He is making an unacceptable
conclusion. He asked a question, but this is a personal opinion. It
seems to me that she did answer. She answered for a good five minutes."
"Sorry, but I thought we were supposed to avoid interruptions, that we weren't
supposed to interrupt when someone was speaking--" "But--" "Wait -- excuse
me, please, let's try to avoid these moments which don't help anybody and
probably harm the person undergoing the examination because they create
tension in the court--" Now Ghirga and Mignini are speaking at the same time
for quite a little moment -- Ghirga's voice is louder -- "Let's take the
answers as they come, later the right moment will come to say that from
this examination, you did not obtain the answer that you expected, that the
accused did not answer the questions. That is a later phase. At this
moment, let's stay with the answers that we have, even if they are not
exhaustive, and avoiding personal evaluations of their value. Go ahead,
publicco ministero, go ahead." "I would like to--" "Yes, yes, go ahead,
return to your question."]

The central point of that interrogation was the moment when the name of
Patrick emerged. You spoke of suggestions, you spoke of pressure, you spoke
of being hit, I asked you to give me a precise description of who gave
you the blows, you need to describe this person. Was it a woman or a man?
Who asked you the questions? Who was asking you the questions? There
was the interpreter, who was the person who was translating. But the exam,
the interrogation, who was doing it? Apart from the people who were going
in and out. You must have understood that there was a murder, and this
was a police station, and the investigation was hot, and what I am asking
you is, who was actually conducting the interrogation?

[KnoxCase]

[Ghirga? not sure, softer voice. "The pubblico ministero is asking you,
you said that the two blows were given to me by someone whose name I don't
know. The pubblico ministero is asking you firstly if you can give a
description of the person who hit you, if you saw her, and if you can
give us a description. The second question --"]

So, when I -- the person who was conducting the interrogation --

That was the second question! You're starting with the second question,
that's fine, go ahead, go ahead.

Oh, sorry...

Go on, go on. The person who was conducting the interrogation...

Well, there were lots and lots of people who were asking me questions, but
the person who had started talking with me was a policewoman with long
hair, chestnut brown hair, but I don't know her. Then in the circle of
people who were around me, certain people asked me questions, for example
there was a man who was holding my telephone, and who was literally
shoving the telephone into my face, shouting "Look at this telephone!
Who is this? Who did you want to meet?" Then there were others, for instance
this woman who was leading, was the same person who at one point was
standing behind me, because they kept moving, they were really surrounding
me and on top of me. I was on a chair, then the interpreter was also sitting
on a chair, and everyone else was standing around me, so I didn't see
who gave me the first blow because it was someone behind me, but then I
turned around and saw that woman, and she gave me another blow to the head.

This was the same woman with the long hair?

Yes, the same one.

All right. Are you finished? Tell me if you have something to add.


Well, I already answered.

Fine, fine, all right. So I'll go on with the questions. In the minutes
it mentions three people, plus the interpreter. Now, you first said
that they suggested things to you. What exactly do you mean by the word
"suggestion", because from your description, I don't see any suggestion.
I mean, what is meant by the Italian word "suggerimento", I don't find it.

[Ghirga: "Excuse me, excuse me, please, please, excuse me, excuse me! Listen,
the pubblico ministero is asking you: "suggestions", you also mentioned
words that were "put in your mouth", versions, things to say, circumstances
to describe. The pubblico ministero is asking two things: who made the
suggestions, and what exactly were you told to say?]

All right. It seems to me that the thoughts of the people standing around me,
there were so many people, and they suggested things to me in the sense that
they would ask questions like: "Okay, you met someone!" No, I didn't.
They would say "Yes you did, because we have this telephone here, that
says that you wanted to meet someone. You wanted to meet him." No, I don't
remember that. "Well, you'd better remember, because if not we'll put
you in prison for 30 years." But I don't remember! "Maybe it was him that
you met? Or him? You can't remember?" It was this kind of suggestion.

When you say they said "Maybe you met him?", did they specify names? Well,
the important fact was this message to Patrick, they were very excited about
it. So they wanted to know if I had received a message from him --

Please, please! [Interruptions, multiple yelling: "It's not possible to go
on this way!" "Please, please, excuse me, excuse me!" "I'm going to ask
to suspend the audience! I demand a suspension of five minutes!"
"Excuse me, excuse me!" "Please!" "Viva Dio, Presidente!" "Presidente,
I'm trying to do a cross-examination, and I must have the conditions that
allow me to do it! The defense keeps interrupting." "Excuse me, excuse me,
please--" "We're asking for a suspension!" "Presidente, you've heard all
the demands, please decide." "Please--" "Pubblico ministero, please wait!"
Several moments of silence, during which Amanda murmurs in a very tiny
voice: "Scusa." "I want to point out that the accused offers answers to
every question. She could always refuse to respond. She is answering, and
that doesn't mean she has to be asked about the same circumstances again
and again. She is not a witness. The accused goes under different rules.
We have to give the answers--" "But--" "Please, please! We have to accept
the answers given by the accused. She can stop answering at any time.
At some point we simply have to move on to different questions. One
circumstance is being asked again, the accused answered. The rituality
of the court, of the process, has to be respected. The pubblico ministero
was asking about suggestions. [To Amanda] If you want a suspension we
can do it right away." "No, I'm fine." So the pubblico ministero was asking
about the suggestions. All right?" "Sure."]

[KnoxCase]

So, were you the one who gave the first indication, who first introduced
this name "Patrick"?

It was because of the fact that they were saying that I apparently had
met someone and they said this because of the message, and they were saying
"Are you sure you don't remember meeting THIS person, because you wrote
this message."

In this message, was there the name of the person it was meant for?

No, it was the message I wrote to my boss. The one that said "Va bene.
Ci vediamo piu tardi. Buona serata."

But it could have been a message to anyone. Could you see from the message
to whom it was written?

Actually, I don't know if that information is in the telephone. But I told
them that I had received a message from Patrick, and they looked for it in
the telephone, but they couldn't find it, but they found the one I sent to
him.

[Someone else] I also wanted to ask you for the pubblico ministero, you wrote
this message in Italian. I wanted to ask you, since you are an English
speaker, what do you do when you wrote in Italian? Do you first think in
English, and then translate into Italian, or do you manage to think
directly in Italian?

No, at that time, I first thought in English, then I would translate, and
then write.

So that clarifies that phrase. Go ahead, pubblico ministero, but I think
we've exhausted the question.

Yes, yes. I just wanted one concept to be clear: that in the Italian language,
"suggerire" means "indicate", someone who "suggests" a name actually says
the name and the other person adopts it. That is what "suggerimento" is,
and I...so my question is, did the police first pronounce the name of Patrick,
or was it you? And was it pronounced after having seen the message in the
phone, or just like that, before that message was seen?

Objection! Objection! On page 95, I read--

Before the objection, what was the question?

The question was: the question that was objected was about the term
"suggerimento". Because I interpret that word this way: the police say
"Was it Patrick?" and she confirms that it was Patrick. This is suggestion
in the Italian language.

Excuse me, please, excuse me. Let's return to the accused. What was the
suggestion, because I thought I had understood that the suggestion consisted
in the fact that Patrick Lumumba, to whom the message was addressed, had
been identified, they talked about "him, him, him". In what terms exactly
did they talk about this "him"? What did they say to you?

So, there was this thing that they wanted a name. And the message --

You mean, they wanted a name relative to something.

Of the person I had written to, precisely. And they told me that I knew,
and that I didn't want to tell. And that I didn't want to tell because I
didn't remember or because I was a stupid liar. Then they kept on about
this message, that they were literally shoving in my face saying "Look
what a stupid liar you are, you don't even remember this!" At first, I
didn't even remember writing that message. But there was this interpreter
next to me who kept saying "Maybe you don't remember, maybe you don't
remember, but try," and other people were saying "Try, try, try to remember
that you met someone, and I was there hearing "Remember, remember, remember,"
and then there was this person behind me who -- it's not that she actually
really physically hurt me, but she frightened me...

"Remember!" is not a suggestion. It is a strong solicitation of your memory.
Suggestion is...

But it was always "Remember" following this same idea, that...

But they didn't literally say that it was him!

No. They didn't say it was him, but they said "We know who it is, we know
who it is. You were with him, you met him."

So, these were the suggestions.

Yes.

Pubblico ministero, I object here on the dynamics, because...[arguing]

I contest it because in the minutes of the Dec 17 interrogation, page 95,
you say: The police could not have suggested-- [Tremendous arguing and
yelling, some saying that they need to know the exact page, it's different
in their version, others that the pubblico ministero should not be
interrupted, others that the reading should not be interrupted...]

End of Audio #2

[KnoxCase]

[Arguments still continuing: "Stop, now we really have to move forward."]

She accused Patrick and no one else because they were continually talking
about Patrick. Suggesting, to use Amanda's words.

I am asking: the police, the police could not suggest. And the interpreter,
was she shouting the name of Patrick? Sorry, but what was the police
saying? Knox: "The police were saying, 'We know that you were in the
house.' " Knowing that she was in the house was what she said before! And
now: "When I said Patrick's name, someone was showing me the message I had sent
him." This is the dispute. There is a precise moment: "The police were
showing me the message, and..."

Excuse me, excuse me pubblico ministero [talking at the same time] excuse
me, excuse me, the objection consists in the following: [to Amanda],
when there are contrasts or a lack of coincidence with previous statements,
be careful to explain them.

Okay.

Do you confirm the declarations that the pubblico ministero read out?

I explained it better now.

You explained it better now. All right pubblico ministero. Go ahead.

So, let's move forward.

Okay.

Now, what happened next? You, confronted with the message, gave the name of
Patrick. What did you say?

Well, first I started to cry. And all the policemen, together, started saying
to me, you have to tell us why, what happened? They wanted all these
details that I couldn't tell them, because in the end, what happened was
this: when I said the name of "Patrick", I suddenly started imagining a kind
of scene, but always using this idea: images that didn't agree, that maybe
could give some kind of explanation of the situation. I saw Patrick's face,
then Piazza Grimana, then my house, then something green that they told me
might be the sofa. Then, following this, they wanted details, they wanted
to know everything I had done. But I didn't know how to say. So they started
talking to me, saying, "Okay, so you went out of the house, okay, fine, so
you met Patrick, where did you meet Patrick?" I don't know, maybe in Piazza
Grimana, maybe near it. Because I had this image of Piazza Grimana. "Okay,
fine, so you went with him to your house. Okay, fine. How did you open the
door?" Well, with my key. "So you opened the house". Okay, yes. "And what
did you do then?" I don't know. "But was she already there?" I don't know.
"Did she arrive or was she already there?" Okay. "Who was there with you?"
I don't know. "Was it just Patrick, or was Raffaele there too?" I don't know.
It was the same when the pubblico ministero came, because he asked me:
"Excuse me, I don't understand. Did you hear the sound of a scream?" No.
"But how could you not have heard the scream?". I don't know, maybe my
ears were covered. I kept on and on saying I don't know, maybe, imagining...


Okay, okay.

[A quiet voice, away from the microphone: I'd like to ask for a contestation
[objection]. Mignini tries to continue: All right, so... The other voice
comes back stronger. "The objection --" "Please, please!" "I said, I am
asking for an objection." "Can we listen to what the pubblico ministero has
to say?" "I appeal to the court that this is making the examination
impossible." "I am trying to understand. You can't obstruct things this way..."
"I object!" "To what? You haven't even heard what I'm trying to say yet.
You can't make preventive objections!" "I'm not objecting to..."
"Please, please avvocato (this is how lawyers are addressed, but it sounds
really strange to write "Please lawyer"], no no no no, the pubblico ministero is
speaking." A lot more crossing "Please, please!" Then someone says "I
understand that when these interruption happens, the tone gets a bit louder,
but that is not helpful. [Interruption] Please, please-- but we are getting
the impression that the objections are preventive. So while the pubblico
ministero is speaking, which he has every right to do in this phase, and the
defense already had their chance to do it, and they weren't interrupted
yesterday, so we ask for equal treatment today, at the present moment of the
examination of the accused. And the tone should always remain cordial without
giving the impression of a..." "We are just saying that..." "Please, avvocato.
There's no reason. We are trying to reconcile all parties. Go ahead."]

The question is this: You say, you just told me a little while ago, that...
the police -- I'm trying to -- well, I have to give a little introduction so
she understands my question. You said "they found this message and they asked
me whom it was to, if it was true or not true." And you answered. Then
the police obviously goes forward with their questions. "So, tell us".
And you...you just told me, I can't read it, obviously I don't have the
transcription right here, but, I might be making a mistake, I don't know, but
you were saying that you remembered Piazza Grimana. Did you really say that?

[Amanda says "si" while again Ghirga starts]: Please, please, there, now
what the accused is saying is: "On the basis of these elements, I tried to
reconstruct a scene that could be verified." In these terms, not because she...
She mentally elaborated, with her imagination: this is what I understood, how
the scene could be realized, containing those elements that had come up.

Yes [certo].

But she wasn't speaking of an effective memory of circumstances that had
effectively occurred in her perception. That is the meaning of the response of
the accused.

Certo.

But you said that you remembered Piazza Grimana.

I had an image of Piazza Grimana.

[Ghirga] An image of Piazza Grimana, that's right.

Listen, in the interrogation, page 95, the same interrogation, but the same
expression turns up in other places, I can give references if necessary,
I asked this question: Why did you throw out an accusation of this type?
In the confrontations with Mr. Lumumba (I was continuing and you answered

right away): "I was trying, I had the possibility of explaining the message
in my phone. He had told me not to come to work." Perfectly normal things.
So, faced with a perfectly normal circumstance, "My boss texted me to
tell me not to come to work and I answered him," you could have just stated
that. End of response. Instead, faced with the message, and the questions
of the police, you threw out this accusation. So I am asking you, why start
accusing him when you could calmly explain the exchange of messages? Why
did you think those things could be true?

I was confused.

[Ghirga] She has repeated that many times.

[KnoxCase]

But what does that mean? Either it's true, or it isn't true. Right now,
for instance, you're here at the audience, you couldn't be somewhere else.
You couldn't say "I am at the station." You are right here, right now.

Certo.

The question is clear.

Can I answer? [At the same time Ghirga quelling some noise] Excuse me, excuse
me! Please, go ahead.

My confusion was because firstly, I couldn't understand why the police was
treating me this way, and then because when I explained that I had spent the
whole time with Raffaele, they said "No, you're a liar". It was always this
thing that either I didn't remember or I was lying. The fact that I kept
on and on repeating my story and they kept saying "No, you're going to prison
right now if you don't tell the truth," and I said "But I've told the truth,"
"No, you're a liar, now you're going to prison for 30 years because either
you're a stupid liar or you forgot. And if it's because you forgot, then
you'd better remember for real, right now." This is why I was confused.
Because I didn't understand. I didn't understand why. I didn't understand
anything any more. I was so scared and impressed by all this that at some
point I thought What the heck, maybe they're right, maybe I forgot. [Ghirga
starts mumbling but then gives up.]

So, and then, you accused Lumumba of murder. This is the conclusion.

[A bit of talking. "Please, go on with the questions."]

So, I wanted to know something else. At what time did the water leak in
Sollecito's house?

After dinner, I don't know what time it was.

Towards 9, 9:30?

21, that's 9? No, it was much later than that.

A bit later? How much?

We had dinner around...10:30, so that must have happened a bit later than that.
Maybe around 11 [slow voice as though thinking it out. Not very convincing.]

And then, the next morning, at what time did you go to Sollecito's house to

clean up the water? Was the water still on the floor?

There still was a bit, there still was a bit of water, but not too much to
clean up.

From 23:00 onwards, at what time did you go to his house to clean up the
water?

Twenty-three...okay. The next morning, I didn't look at the clock, but I went
to my house around 10:30. And then I went back, it must have been before
midday.

What day are we talking about?

We're still talking about Nov 2.

November 2.

In the morning. I think it was maybe around 11:30? Just by reasoning, but
I didn't look at the clock.

Listen, on the morning of Nov 2, you went to your house, and you saw the traces
of blood in the little bathroom.

Yes.

The traces of blood on the bathmat.

Yes.

When was the last time you had been in that bathroom?

Me?

Yes.

I must have...well, before the 2nd, I must have gone in there at least once
when I came home on Nov 1st.

Excuse me, but what time did you leave the house in via della Pergola on Nov 1?

Around...4 o'clock, maybe? I don't look at the clock. But I know it must have
been 4 or 5 o'clock when we left the house on Nov 1.

And you were in the little bathroom before leaving the house?

Yes.

Now, the last time you were in the little bathroom, before leaving the house,
it might have been more or less around 4 o'clock?

Around then, yes.

All right. You knew that Filomena wasn't home?

I knew that she had gone to a party that afternoon.


A party. Fine. And Mezzetti?

Laura, you know, I didn't know where she was. I knew she wasn't in the house
when I was there, but I didn't really know where she was.

When you saw the bathroom for the last time, were there traces of blood in it?

No.

All right. Now, let's get to the moment when Meredith's door was broken down--

Okay --

We can go backwards later. Did you see Meredith's room?

No.

Did you get a glimpse?

No.

Where were you?

I was near the entrance, in the living room.

Sollecito was with you?

Yes.

So he didn't see either.

No.

[KnoxCase]

From what Frost, Meredith's friend, said, and others, we heard that you,
or Sollecito, claimed to have seen the body in the closet, covered with a
sheet, and nothing could be seen but a foot. Now if you hadn't seen the room,
and Raffaele hadn't seen it either, how could you make this observation?
How could you -- I'm asking another question -- and how could this closet
contain Meredith's body? You know the closet, right? I have a black and
white photo of it here. Here. This closet.

All right. Firstly, I think Frost made a little mistake, because I never said
that I saw Meredith's body in the closet. I said that I had heard people around
me saying that there was a body in the closet, that was covered, with a
foot sticking out. I too was confused by this, but that's what I heard.
But when people kept on asking me what happened, what they had found, I
answered what I had heard.

Or what Raffaele told you.

Raffaele, or the people he was asking for me.

Why do you say, or rather, it's the lawyer who says, he was speaking for you
right then: "She confirmed that Raffaele heard from other people that
maybe this was the version. Page 78 of my... Do you remember that?
And also page 79.


Do I remember that interrogation?

Yes.

I remember the fact that Raffaele was asking the people around us what they
had seen.

Look, on page 79 you say: "I understand, I understand. He said precisely:
'Apparently there's a girl, there's the body of a girl in the closet, but
the only thing you can see is her foot.' " You say that Raffaele said this.

Yes.

You confirm it.

I confirm that we heard from the people around us that there was this fact
about the closet, a body in the closet.

But it's Raffaele who said it to you, not the people around.

But--

You said that the people around you told it to him.

He was the person who was helping me to understand what they were saying. He
spoke to me, explaining everything that was happening, because in the end,
I was in shock and also I didn't understand.

So, who were these people who said this to Raffaele?

We were all asking each other, because there was Filomena's friend, who had
maybe obviously heard it from the police, but it's not like a followed
exactly where the information was coming from. Everyone was talking.
Everyone was giving explanations and versions and information, and I kept
turning to Raffaele because at least he understood the language. I didn't
even understand...

Raffaele didn't tell you who told him?

No, but he was explaining to me above all what I asked him: what happened,
what was in the room, those things.

I'm asking you, but if you don't know, just tell me: did he say to you
"Filomena told me" or "such-and-such told me", Altieri, the tall girl,
the others that were there that saw into the room. There was no girl in
the closet. Did he tell you who told him that? That there was a girl
inside the closet?

No, he didn't tell me who said that. It was the people around.

[Ghirga] She already answered. All right pubblico ministero, go ahead.

I wanted to spend a moment on one last question, maybe the last but I don't
know, about the morning of the 6th.

Okay.

[KnoxCase]

There's another thing I didn't understand.

You said pressure was put on you, and there were suggestions, you explained
today exactly what those consisted in, to say the name of Patrick and to
accuse Patrick. Then you wrote a memorial in which you confirm everything.
And you weren't under pressure right then. Why didn't you just say: "I
falsely accused someone." Someone who was in prison, who was put in prison,
maybe for a long time. Can you explain this to me?

Certo.

[Ghirga, very, very calmly..."Can I make an objection? Very, very tranquilly?"
Another voice: Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you [for the calm
doubtless]. It seems to me that the pubblico ministero, in presenting his
questions, always makes references which go as far as actually suggesting
the answers, and also -- " "Well it is a cross-examination." "Please, please
let each person speak. Please avvocato." "In the question he just asked,
he mentions the memorandum and says it confirms. Now, this might be a
question, but it should not be an assertion on the part of the pubblico
ministero. He can ask another question after. If we look in the minutes,
we find a series of unilateral declarations which all go to show what
interests the pubblico ministero. To my mind, this technique goes against
our way of examining the accused."]

[Ghirga] All right, taking into account these remarks, the pubblico ministero's
question could be rephrased like this: during the 5th and the 6th, you said
there were pressures, and the name of Patrick Lumumba emerged as also being
involved in these events. But you wrote the memorandum spontaneously, you
yourself asked for paper to be able to write it. And with the freedom to do
this, you referred to it as a gift, these elements which had already emerged,
you reasserted them, and this involvement of Patrick Lumumba. How did you
-- this question was already asked yesterday -- you weren't in the room
any more, there wasn't any pressure, didn't the truth somehow get
stabilized?

Yes, yes. In fact, what happened is that I had literally been led to believe
that somehow, I had forgotten something real, and so with this idea that I
must have forgotten, I was practically convinced myself that I really had
forgotten. And these images, that I was actually forcing myself to imagine,
were really lost memories. So, I wasn't sure if those images were reality
or not, but explaining this to the police, they didn't want to listen to the
fact that I wasn't sure. They treated me as though I had now remembered
everything and everything was fine and I could now make a declaration in
the tribunal to accuse someone. I didn't feel sure about that --

But in the memorial, do you remember what you wrote about Patrick? Because
maybe this point wasn't precise...

I want to object to this point. Two points in the memorial. If I'm not
mistaken, you weren't a witness right then. You had been arrested. You know
the difference between a witness and a suspect. You know the difference.

[Ghirga] She knows the difference.

Sorry, avvocato, but I'm asking questions! Can I ask questions! He's
continually --


Sorry, sorry, go ahead.

This is impossible!

Go ahead, go ahead.

I am asking, now I'm distracted, now, the difference between witness and
suspect, you say that you made these declarations so you could leave, but
instead you were arrested. And you wrote the memorial after you had been
arrested, and you say two sentences: I'll read them. This is about the
events that could have taken place in my house with Patrick. [This might not
be the exact quote in English] Do you know what the word "confirm" means
in Italian? "In the flashbacks I'm having, I see Patrick as the murderer."
There wasn't any policeman with you when you wrote that. No one. You wrote
that in complete liberty. And it's even more decisive than what you
said some hours earlier. Can you explain this?

I couldn't even explain to myself why I had these images in my head, because
I didn't know if they were memories or not. And I want to say that if I
made these declarations, that they asked me to sign and everything, I did
it, but I wanted in the memorial to explain my doubts, that I wasn't sure
about it, because no one ever wanted to listen when I said this.

At that time did you ever have lapses of memory? Moments where you couldn't
remember things that you had done?

[Laughing] I've had that problem all my life, I can't remember where I put
my keys.

So you previously mixed up things, didn't know whether you had dreamed things
or they were real?

No, not that part about the imagination! I would forget for example what I ate
yesterday for dinner, yes, that happened to me, but not to actually imagine
things.

To imagine something that hadn't really happened, that never happened to you.

No. I never had that problem, but then, I had never been interrogated like
that before.

Okay, so when you had this flashback, you saw Patrick as the murderer. What
was this flashback?

The flashback consisted in this image of Patrick's actual face, not that I
imagined an actual act, I imagined his face. Then I had this image of
Piazza Grimana, then an image of Patrick's face, then I always had this
idea that they wanted to say: these images explain the fact that you met him,
and you brought him home, and maybe you heard something and covered your
ears, and it was always like this, not that I actually imagined having seen
Meredith's death. It was these images that came by themselves, to explain...

All right, now let's talk about your memorial from the 7th, still written
in total autonomy, without anyone around you. You wrote: "I didn't lie when
I said that I thought the murderer might have been Patrick. At that moment
I was very stressed and I thought that maybe it was really Patrick." Then
you add "But now I know that I can't know who the murderer is, because I
remember that I didn't go home."

Yes, because I was convinced that I somehow could have forgotten...

So what you had said might have actually been true?

Yes.

End Audio #3

[KnoxCase]

Start Audio #4

Yes, it could have been true, but at that moment. But then, when I was able to
rethink the facts, it became clearer and clearer that it didn't make sense,
that it was absolutely ridiculous that I could have thought that or imagined
it.

But didn't you feel the need to intervene to get an innocent person out
of prison? You didn't feel the need?

But the police had already called me a liar, and I didn't feel they were
listening to me. Also because in the Questura--[he interrupts "The Questura
in the prison?" or something like this, can't really hear it]
--in the Questura I had already told them: Look, I'm
not sure about this, and they didn't want to hear that. They didn't want
to listen, because they said to me "No, you'll remember it later. You just
need a little time to really remember these facts." I told them no, I
don't think it's like that, but they didn't want to listen.

But you, once you said that you remembered, [snaps fingers?] you could
have just made a declaration or sent me another memorial saying "No, I didn't
say the truth. Patrick is innocent."

[Ghirga] Excuse me, we already had explanations about this.

All right, I have another question.

[Ghirga]Please, go ahead.

I have another question. You had a 250 dollar fine from the court in Seattle.

What? Oh, yes.

Can you explain that? What was the motive?

In Seattle, I lived with four friends of mine in a house. When we finished the
lease, we wanted to have a party to celebrate the end of our time living
together and also just the end of the year. So, we had a party. At the
party there was a band, one of my friends played in it. So there was a band,
and they made such a tremendous racket that the neighbors called the police to
come and stop the noise. Since I was the person in the best state to talk to
the police right then, I went out of the house and took responsibility for the
noise. So I got the fine, and everybody helped me pay it.

Do you know about the article that appeared on "Mail Online", by [name?],
on Dec 3 2007, which refers to the event -- I ask for the acquisition
of this article -- in which the episode is described with many details.
There is also a translation into Italian. I would like to ask for the
translation of this article. [Intervention: "This will be made available
to all parties." A fairly long pause.]

It talks about incredibly loud music, drugs, alcohol and throwing rocks into
the street. [Intervention by Ghirga: "Would it be possible to actually ask
questions?"]

Yes. Do you remember this episode? [Ghirga: "Excuse me, pubblico ministero.
You described this episode in the terms we just heard. But can the pubblico
ministero assert that there was use of alcohol and drugs on that occasion, or
are these just rumors?" Amanda starts: "So in fact--" but Ghirga
continues: "and then there's something else" -- voices overlap, someone says
"The Court doesn't know anything about this." Ghirga says: "Go ahead,
go ahead."]

There is a report by police officer Bender [Ghirga: "Oh, all right. Okay,
okay. Let's just make specific and precise questions.
Excuse me -- the episode was just sketched. One can ask about the drugs
and the alcohol."]

So, there was alcohol at this party; we had beer. I didn't know anything
about drugs because I was inside the house. I don't know about drugs at the
party, but there was beer for sure.

Anything else?

And noise.

And rocks getting thrown at windows and in the street, so much that it
was blocking the traffic--

[Ghirga: "Excuse me, excuse me! That was the article, it
could say things that aren't true -- Excuse me! It has been requested that
this document be produced and placed at the disposal of all parties. But
if you have specific questions--"]

Do you remember -- is it true what this article says?

[Laughing] No. No.

[Ghirga: "Do you have specific questions?"]

What is the significance of this sum of 269 dollars?

[Ghirga: "It's a fine...a payment."]

[Amanda's voice suddenly very loud] It's like when you park your car in a
forbidden place and you have to pay a fine, it's the same thing. [In her
confusion maybe she uses the familiar "tu".]

All right, all right [short intervention by Ghirga, voices overlapping.]

[KnoxCase]

Now, let's get to the episode of the 23rd.

Twenty-third? [Voices: "You have the Italian translation."]


The 23rd of November...no, the 23rd...the audition of the assistant Gioia
Broci and someone else from the 23rd of last April, in which she made
reference to the survey or visit to the via della Pergola on November 4.

Okay.

She says that while you were looking at the silverware [Amanda asks what
this word means; he replies "knives"], you started to tremble and cry
and covered your ears with your hands. Suddenly. Can you explain why?

As I said...

[Ghirga: "Tell him if the episode is true, if it happened, how and why."]

All right. The fact that I cried in the house when I saw the knives is true.
I cried, because when I entered the house, I had to look around to see if
anything was missing that could have been used to kill someone, it made
a strong impression on me. It was as if all that time, I hadn't been able
to even accept the fact that she was really killed, Meredith, and then
having to actually be inside the house, looking at knives, being actually
there, it was as though the people around me...I was there, and they were
asking me to look if there were any knives missing. I said "Okay", but the
situation was so heavy, I don't know, it really hit me.

So when you looked at the knives, you felt disturbed.

Yes, I was disturbed, it made such an impression on me.

Listen, another question. The lamp that was found in Meredith's room, a black
lamp with a red button, that was found in Meredith's room, at the foot of
the bed, was it yours?

I did have a lamp with a red button in my room, yes.

So the lamp was yours.

I suppose it was.

Was it missing from your room?

You know, I didn't look.

Did Meredith have a lamp like that in her room?

I don't know.

Hm. All right. Listen, when did you know that the boys from the downstairs
apartment were all leaving for the long weekend?

I had kind of heard that they wanted to celebrate Halloween somehow or other,
but I didn't understand or didn't know where they were going and how long
they were going to be away. It's always because when everyone was talking
together, us and the boys from downstairs, I didn't really understand very
well, I didn't get a clear sense of what was happening.

But you know that November 2nd, unless I'm mistaken, was a Friday. No?


Yes.

So then there was Saturday and Sunday; you knew that those days were a holiday
here, didn't you? The 1st and the 2nd.

Yes, I wanted to go to Gubbio.

Right.

But what you just said about Halloween, you must have heard that on October
31, no? In the morning?

I don't know exactly when I heard it.

But you knew they were going away, the boys.

I knew they were going to do something to celebrate Halloween together, at
least that's what I understood.

Hm. Now, how is it that you went downstairs to see if they were home, on
the morning of the 2nd?

I didn't know whether they were home, or not. We wanted to go down and ask
them if they had heard anything.

Hm.

So I went there, I knocked...

And nobody had told you that they had all gone to their respective homes,
far from Perugia?

If they said that, then I didn't understand it, because really I thought that
they were just talking about Halloween.

Now, on the evening of November 1, do you remember if Raffaele received
any phone calls while you were at his house?

At Halloween?

The evening of the 1st.

I don't remember.

Okay. Listen, another question. Do you remember, on the morning of the 2nd,
if Raffaele tried to break down the door of the room?

Yes.

[KnoxCase]

How then, when later Romanelli arrived, you said that it was normal for Meredith
to lock her door. Yet you tried to break it down. Can you explain this?

Certo. When the police came they asked, at least they asked Filomena,
if that door was ever locked, and she said "No no no no, it's never, never
locked." I said "No, that's not true that it's really never locked," because
sometimes it actually was locked. But for me, it was strange that it was
locked and she wasn't answering, so for me it was strange, but I wanted
to explain that it wasn't impossible, that she did lock her door now and then.

But usually, you remember her door being open.

Yes it was usually open or at least...yes.

But on that morning, I understand that you were said to have stated that
Meredith always locked her door. And that it was normal.

I never said it was always locked. It's just that they didn't understand.
I just wanted to explain that it was not always open.

I see, she didn't explain.

[Another voice: dalla Vedova? "The pubblico ministero is asking you: okay,
you say it was not always open, not always closed, but it was a circumstance
which didn't particularly alarm you, so much so that you mentioned this to
Romanelli--" Amanda: "Yes, because Filomena was answering like that--" "Okay,
okay, but it sounds like the locked door didn't alarm you, whereas in fact
Raffaele Sollecito had already tried to break down the door. So?"]

Well, I was worried because she wasn't answering. The fact that the door was
locked wouldn't have alarmed me if, say, she had answered, but the fact that
she didn't answer when we called her made us think: maybe she's in there and
she isn't well or something.

[The same voice: not Mignini] For goodness' sake, still on this circumstance.
A door is locked, locked, why should I think there is someone inside who isn't
answering me? I could just calmly think that nobody is there--

Also that. But we weren't sure. Sorry--

--and if she's not home, why should I be worried? Enough to ruin the door by
breaking it down? Why should I think that there is someone there who is not
answering me? The simplest answer is that she left, locked the door and left.
She's not answering, why call her? The door is locked, she's not there.

I know. But the fact that there were all these strange things in the house--

No, for heaven's sake. After this, the other party [Mignini] will continue the
examination. I want to say: you find the main door open, you can think
that she left and forgot to close it, but she locked her own door. Why
should you be so worried that you try to break down her door? I think this
is what the pubblico ministero is asking. There. If you could explain
why you were so worried, your motive for trying to break down the door.

Yes. I was worried that somehow she was inside and had hurt herself, because
there were so many strange things in the house, and so I didn't know what
to think. But at the same time, she could have been inside or not, but
I wanted to be sure, because if she had hurt herself in some way, or if
someone was in there, or if she went out because there was something in there,
I didn't know. And the fact that the door was locked together with the broken
window had me very worried, I didn't know what to think, but I was worried.
So I wanted to knock the door down to see if there was something in there.
I didn't know what. But at the same time it worried me. And when I said
to Filomena "It's not true that it's never locked," I only wanted to explain
the truth of the situation. Because someone was saying "No, no, it's
never locked," and that wasn't true. I wanted to explain that.

[Mignini again, I think] I see. On the 3rd of November, did you go to the
store Discovery (?), on the day after the discovery of the body of Meredith?

When I bought underwear?

Yes.

What happened there? Tell us a bit.

So, I didn't have any more clothes, so I went with Raffaele to this store to
get underwear, because I didn't even know when I would be able to go back
into my own house and get my things back. So we went there and looked at
some clothes, and in the end I bought a pair of underwear.

The document in our possession -- where is it now? [voices crossing.]

Maybe it would be better to take a break? Shall we suspend proceedings?

Amanda: That would be beautiful.

Fine. We'll suspend the audience -- now it's 11:17 -- we'll suspend until
11:28, to start again at 11:30.

End of Audio #4

[KnoxCase]

Audio #5, Saturday, June 13, 2009, 11:30 resumption after a 15-minute break

[Someone] Now we can resume the audience, continuing the examination by the
pubblico ministero of the accused.

[Mignini] The document we need to acquire [Intervention: "Oh, the document
isn't...oh yes, we have it. Good....mumbling...Go ahead, pubblico
ministero"]

Listen, do you remember....[pause, "Let me show you"...] Do you recognize
your signature on this statement? This is the statement made following
your spontaneous declarations.

Yes.

You recognize your signature.

Yes.

Now, this story about the door, about knocking down the door, that Raffaele
tried to break down the door. You said that you tried to explain that
sometimes she did have her door locked, you told us about this point. Now,
I want to ask you this question: Raffaele didn't by any chance try to break
down the door to get back the lamp we talk about?

[Amanda, in a perfectly calm reasonable voice] No, we didn't know the lamp was in there.

You didn't know that your lamp was in there?

In the sense that the lamp that was supposed to be in my room, I hadn't even
noticed it was missing. I tried--

You didn't see that it was missing?

No, I didn't see that it was missing. We tried to break down the door because
I was so worried after having seen the broken window. I basically panicked.
I was thinking, Good Lord, what's going on here? I ran downstairs to see
if anyone down there had heard anything, then I tried to see if she was inside.
She locked her door when she needed "privacy" [English]. So if she wasn't
in there but the door was locked, it seemed strange to me. Also the fact
that the window was broken worried me. Someone could have taken something.

Yes, yes. Listen, did you actually observe Filomena Romanelli's room?

I saw that there was "chaos" [English] in there. I saw the broken window,
and a lot of stuff on the floor.

Did you see anything else? Did you see the rock?

I didn't see the rock. I saw that there was the computer on the tab-- No!
The camera was on the table. I saw that the things were still there. I
didn't see the rock.

Listen, did you see the clothes on the floor?

Yes.

And the glass? On top of the clothes?

Well, I saw that the glass was broken and there were pieces of glass all over
the place.

Also on top of the clothes?

I suppose there was, but I can't say.

Listen, did you actually check whether anything was stolen?

I don't know everything that Filomena has. But I saw that there was lots of
stuff all over the place, so I couldn't really check. That's why I called her.
I saw that the things that I recognized, things of value, were still in the
apartment, like the television, the computer, those things. That's why I
thought: What a strange burglary!

Strange, eh.

Yes.

That basically there was no burglary.

Well, no. I saw that there was a broken window, so I did think there had been
a burglary.

I have no other questions.

Okay.

[Another voice: If the pubblico ministero has no more questions, then the
other parties may question.]

[A woman's voice: probably Manuela Comodi] You said that you called your
mother on the morning of Nov 2.

Yes.

When did you call her for the first time?

The first time was right away after they had sent us out of the house. I was
like this [probably mimes shaking], I sat on the ground, and I called my mother.

So this was when either the police or the carabinieri had already intervened.

It was after they had broken down the door and sent us outside. I don't
know what kind of police it was, but it was the ones who arrived first.
Later, many other people arrived.

But from the records, we see that you called your mother -- not only from the
records but also the pings [?] that you first called your mother at 12.
At midday. What time is it at midday? What time is it in Seattle, if in
Perugia it is midday?

[KnoxCase]

In Seattle it's morning. It's a nine hour difference, so three in the morning.


Three o'clock at night?

Yes.

So your mother was surely sleeping.

Yes.

But at 12:00 nothing had happened yet. That's what your mother said --

I told my mother --

-- during the conversation you had with her in prison. Even your mother was
amazed that you called her at midday, which was three or four o'clock at night,
to tell her that nothing had happened.

I didn't know what had happened. I just called my mother to say that we had
been sent out of the house, and that I had heard something --

But at midday nothing had happened yet in the sense that the door had not
been broken down yet.

Hm. Okay. I don't remember that phone call. I remember that I called her
to tell her what we had heard about a foot. Maybe I did call before, but
I don't remember it.

But if you called her before, why did you do it?

I don't remember, but if I did it, I would have called to--

You did do it.

Okay, fine. But I don't remember. I don't remember that phone call.

[A man's voice, quiet:]Excuse me. You don't remember, but the pubblico
ministero just pointed out to you a phone call that your mother received
in the night.

[Comodi] At three o'clock at night.

[The voice] So, it must have been true, it happened. Did you have the habit
of calling her at that time? Did it happen on other occasions? At midday
in Italy? At a time where in Seattle...people don't usually call each
other in the middle of the night.

Yes, yes, of course.

So either you had a particular motive, or it was a habit.

Yes. Well, since I don't remember this phone call, because I remember the one
I made later, but obviously I made that phone call. If I did that, it's because
I thought that I had something I had to tell her. Maybe I thought right then
that there was something strange, because at that moment, when I went to
Raffaele's place, I did think there was something strange, but I didn't know
what to think. But I really don't remember this phone call, so I can't
say for sure why. But I guess it was because I came home and the door was
open, and then --

It's strange. You don't remember the phone call, but do you remember the
conversation with your mother in prison?

I had so many. But yes.

This conversation must have been the one of the 10th of November.
Do you remember when your mother said "But at 12, nothing had happened yet."

I don't remember that.

But you do confirm that from the time when you turned off your cell phone
until the next morning, you were always with Raffaele Sollecito.

Yes.

Always.

Yes. I fell asleep with him.

And in the morning you went out around 10:30.

Around then.

You went to get the mop.

Yes. To take a shower and change, and get the mop, yes.

But hadn't you taken a shower the evening before, at Raffaele's place?

Yes, but then we made love. So I wanted to take another shower.

The next day. Not right away after. But the next day.

Well, we made love and then I fell asleep. Then, the next morning, I wanted
to take a shower.

[KnoxCase]

Where did you buy your marijuana?

I didn't buy marijuana.

Who bought it?

I smoked when friends had some, so...for example, when we were at home, often
one person would make a joint, and then each person would smoke it a bit and
pass it around. But I never bought any.

And when you and Raffaele were alone?

Raffaele and I -- Raffaele had some marijuana, yes.

And where did he buy it?

I don't know. I don't know the people who give out marijuana.

And you don't know the people who gave it to Raffaele.

No. I never met them.

Fine. Are there other questions?

[A pause, a man's voice.] Yes. Buongiorno. Avvocato Maresca,
for the Kercher family. The first question I want to ask you. I'm going
back to finish the subject of the telephone call to your mother on the
morning of Nov 2, about which you just spoke to the pubblico ministero.

The 2nd or the 1st of November? Because I thought I was talking...oh, okay!
Yes. The 2nd.

Of November. November 2.

Sorry. Dates...

So, you called your mother three times. Do you remember that?

I remember calling my mom. I don't remember how many times. There was so much
to think about right then.

Fine. Do you remember speaking to your mother in prison on November 10th about
this very phone call?

I don't remember specifically, but probably we talked about it, yes.

Do you remember how surprised your mother was that you didn't even remember
about this phone call?

I remember her being a bit surprised that I didn't remember very well. But
in the end I explained to her that there was just so much movement going
on right then, so much confusion, and the whole morning was so emotional,
and so all the specific things got mixed up.

Yes. So, let me give you a specific question.

Okay.

You referred in your conversation with your mother to your phone call to
Romanelli. Do you remember that?

Wait...

[Ghirga: "Can you be more precise and read it to us from the page?"]

Yes. Page 35-36 of the transcription of the conversation of Nov 10: Your mother,
surprised, says: You called me three times. You say: Oh, I don't remember
that. She says: Okay, you called me once to tell me some things that had
shocked you. But this happened before anything really happened in the
house, says your mother. You say: I know I was calling, I remember
calling Filomena, but I really don't remember calling anyone else.
I just don't remember having called you. Your mother says: Why would that
be? Stress, you think? Yes, right, and the conversation continues.

Okay.


So, my specific question -- [to lawyers obviously, one of them must have
stood up] I don't want to be interrupted! I am examining her as I was
allowed -- [Ghirga: go ahead, go ahead. There was no interruption!]
I didn't even ask the question yet! I see dalla Vedova getting up
punctually at every question! [Ghirga: Getting up doesn't matter, the important
thing is that there are no interruptions.] [Another voice: (dalla Vedova?)
"Can I make an objection to this?"] Can I ask my question or not? ["Let
him ask the question, then we'll see about objecting. Please, go ahead."]
So, the question is: is there a specific motive for which -- since
yesterday you testified that you called your mother because, specifically
answering a question by the defense, you didn't have anyone in Perugia that you
could turn to, right? So the question is, is there a reason for which, in your
conversation with your mother on Nov 10, you can't remember three phone calls
that you made to her in the middle of the night in Seattle about these
things that were happening in the house?

I imagine that --

[Interruption, by dalla Vedova, probably: "I object to this question! Because
the reference to the transcription was read out with one sentence skipped by
the lawyer for the civil plaintiff [parte civile]."]

Presidente, I textually read everything. This "skipping" annoys me. I
do not skip anything. I read out to the Court exactly the entire passage.
If someone skipped, it was someone else. Yes?

[Spirited arguing. Dalla Vedova(?): "I'll repeat the objection. After
reading about Amanda's saying 'I don't remember' and her mother saying
'Why would that be? Stress, you think?', Amanda says "Because a lot of
things were happening very quickly at that point'. Okay, right, okay.
But, he skipped the sentence "Because a lot of things were happening
very quickly at that point.' The lawyer for the civil plaintiff did not
read it out. I wanted to make that precise."]

Yes, but my question was about the reason for the stress being some other
reason--

[dalla Vedova(?) "But the question asked by the defense of the civil plaintiff
was: How could you not remember that phone call, even though they it was
made at a very, very special time for the person who received the call?"]

[Amanda] Ah, okay. I do remember one call afterwards, the one that I made
after they sent us out of the house. But, I don't know if it's because I
was thinking about so many things, but somehow I forgot, I don't know.

Yesterday, you mentioned having a lot of friends, both in the US and in Perugia.
Did you consider Meredith Kercher to be a friend?

Yes.

Did you suffer from the loss of this friend?

Yes, I was very, very shocked by it. I couldn't even imagine such a thing.

Do you think about her in your daily life, do you think about this friend who
was with you in your house?


Yes, I remember her. But in the end, I only knew her for one month, and
more than anything, I am trying to think how to go forward with my own life,
so yes, I remember her, and I am so upset about what happened, and
sometimes it seems to me that it can't be real. I don't really know what
to think of this thing. But yes. I suffered.

[KnoxCase]

All right. We heard, and you gave testimony on this point, about your
behavior in the Questura, the cartwheel, the gymnastics, the stretching and
so forth.

Yes.

According to you, was this behavior appropriate, a normal behavior faced with
such a misfortune, or was this something special?

According to me, each person confronts a tragedy in their own way, and I am
used to trying to find normality, at least my own normality, in situations
of difficulty. This is my way of feeling more secure, because I was feeling
really, really, really scared of what had happened, very shocked. I didn't
know how to face up to the situation, and for me it was surreal, but I
was obliged to accept the fact that it had happened, so my behavior -- yes,
I know that they are a bit lighthearted, but that's just how I am.

But at that moment, were you scared, or grieving? Or both?

I was so -- I was very disoriented.

And Patrick Lumumba, did you consider him as a friend, or not?

I saw him, yes, pretty much as a friend, for the short time I had spent
around him. I had a good relationship with him.

In the days spent at the Questura -- later we'll look at them one by one
in order -- did you ever think that Patrick Lumumba might be guilty?

Before I was interrogated on Nov 5th/6th, I never thought that.

So you thought it for the first time on the 5th and 6th?

Yes, yes.

Then you changed your mind about his guilt.

When? In the sense that on the 5th and 6th --

No, after the 5th and 6th.

After the 5th and 6th --

On the 5th and 6th, you considered him guilty. When did you change?

I imagined that he --

I'll ask you later about imagination. Now tell me when you changed your mind
about Patrick Lumumba.


I changed my mind when I realized that my imaginings were not really memories,
but just imagination.

When? When?

The more time passed, the more I felt sure. But definitely, when I was in
prison and alone in my cell, I had so much time to rethink about all the
facts I remembered, and about the fact that I remembered not having been
with him on that night. The more I thought, mamma mia, he's probably
innocent.

How many days later?

How many days?

Weeks, days, hours, I don't know. The question is: when?

I already had a doubt when I was in the Questura. But I became completely
sure when -- at least I was completely sure that I had never been with him,
so what everyone was thinking, that it was him, was only because I myself
had said something, and that convinced me that he was innocent. But in
the end, I just couldn't know for sure. I could only know that what I
myself had said was not the truth.

And when did this happen?

When I was in prison, I guess, but I already had doubts--

But when in prison?

--while I was in the Questura...

But when? Can you tell me? A few days later? A few weeks later?

No, but even this feeling of doubt starting getting stronger, already on the
very next day. As soon as I had time to get paper and try to remember
things--

[Ghirga? "Okay, okay! Go ahead, avvocato." I think he's calling Amanda
to order here.]

But the next day, in your memorandum of the 7th, you confirmed that Patrick
Lumumba, that what you said about him was true. So, it must have been a
few days later with respect to this memorandum, diary, whatever you want
to call it.

I needed time to think. I don't know the precise moment where bing! but
it was this continuous evolution of asking myself: So, what did I do?
If I didn't do these things with him, then he's probably innocent, but I
only know the things that I actually do know, about what I myself did.
About what I actually said about him, it was not true. It was a mistake.
But -- I don't know -- I don't know anything any more [this is what Amanda
says, but I think it's a grammatical mistake for past tense: "I didn't know
anything any more." She does make a fair number of errors, although she
is never incomprehensible. The lawyers just ignore them.]. In fact, the
thing that was important for me was to know whether I myself was there or
not, and when I remembered that I wasn't, that was the important thing which
I wanted to say, and also the fact that what I had said about him was a mistake.

And who did you talk with about this when you understood that it was a mistake?
I wrote, and then when I could, I talked to my mom, and to my lawyers.

[KnoxCase]

And why didn't you ask your lawyers to tell the "Procura" or the pubblico
ministero that it was a mistake?

I told them about it, because I gave everything legal to them. I didn't think
of taking further legal steps by myself. My way of sending out into the world
the things that I knew went through my lawyers. So I confided in them and
gave them all the information that I could to help them. First I had tried
doing that with the police, but they had put me in prison and didn't trust
me any more. So I talked to my lawyers and people who believed me.

Okay. You spoke many times, yesterday and today, of a state of confusion.

Certainly.

And of imagination.

Certainly.

What do these words mean to you: state of confusion, and imagination?

The sense I had at that moment, when I was trying to remember things that I
didn't remember--

I'm not talking about that moment. I am asking you in general. In general,
for you, what is a "state of confusion" and what is "imagination"?

According to me, it depends on the situation. I can only talk about my own
experience, which was, that I had to, forced myself -- because they told me
that I had to remember something else -- to recall something else, so I
forced myself so hard, that I was trying to imagine the reality that I had
apparently forgotten, and I got confused as to whether the things I had imagined
were really memories or just imagination. Because they were fragmentary.
They were just images of things I had seen in my life, for example Piazza
Grimana, that I saw every day, Patrick, whom I saw almost every day. These
things, which were fragmented, I didn't know if they belonged to that
evening, to that sequence of events [? hard to understand words] or reasoning. I didn't know, and not knowing what was reality and what was my imagination, this was the state of confusion.

[Ghirga? "Okay. Go ahead, avvocato." I think he's stopping her again.
She does get long-winded. You can actually feel the lawyers' impatience
flowing out of the audio as they go ahem and hum in the background.]

But have you had other moments in your life in which you were in a state of
confusion like this?

No.

So you've had only this experience.

Yes.


So this mechanism of the imagination, you only lived through it in this
experience.

Yes.

And so, only in this experience did you separate and then mix up reality
with imagination and fantasy.

Yes.

You also mentioned frustration yesterday.

Yes.

For your interrogation by the pubblico ministero and by the police.

Yes.

What does frustration mean to you?

I was frustrated because I felt that even if I was giving, it wasn't being
received. For instance, I felt that I was giving and giving, but they
always wanted something -- always more, and they didn't want to listen to me.
They asked me something and I answered, it was never enough, never the thing
that they wanted to hear. So I was frustrated. I didn't know how to answer
any more, because I had already said, repeated, repeated--

[Ghirga? "Okay, okay, we understood. Go ahead." (Again !!)]

You say that you met Raffaele Sollecito on October 25.

Yes, at that concert.

Okay. Six days before the murder of Mez.

Okay.

When did you first have sexual relations with Sollecito?

On the first day.

On the night of the 25th?

Yes.

And when did you move into his house?

I didn't move to Raffaele's house. I spent a lot of time with him, yes.

But yesterday you said that you cooked so many times in that house.

Yes.

That is correct?

Yes.

In those six days, how many times did you cook?

I can't say exactly, but we made either lunch or dinner almost every day in
his house.

Did Mez ever meet Sollecito in those days?

Yes.

Where? and when?

When he came to my place, for example. If Meredith was there, they talked
a bit. Laura and Filomena also met him.

And in those six days, how many times did he come over to your place,
if you remember?

Hmmmm....

Every day?

No...umm...

One day yes, another day not...

Three days? I'm not sure how many days.

End Audio #5

[KnoxCase]

Start Audio #6

What drugs did you and Sollecito use?

Sometimes we smoked a joint.

On Nov 1, you testified that you smoked a joint, in the afternoon.

Afternoon-evening, yes.

Afternoon or evening?

Evening. Yes.

After your arrival at the house in via della Pergola, did you bring other
men into the house?

Brought other men?

Before meeting Raffaele Sollecito?

[Ghirga? "What was the question? I didn't hear it."]

I asked Amanda Knox if she brought other men, other boys to her house after
her arrival in via della Pergola, before meeting Raffaele Sollecito on
October 25.

So, I had two friends. One of them was Juve, who worked with me at Patrick's,
and Juve would sometimes come to the house, bringing me home after work, or
even after school. He also accompanied me a few times. Then, once, there
was Spiros, who wanted to hear me play the guitar. I told him that I couldn't
take Laura's guitar out of the house, so I invited him over. Then there was
the time, after Rezzon [?, the disco] who was called Daniele, and....that's
it. For boys. There was a girl I invited once to play guitar. And there
were the boys from downstairs who used to come up.

In that period, did you have other, I don't know what to call them, "boyfriends"
[English] as you would say, before Raffaele Sollecito?

I wouldn't say boyfriends, but there are people I went out with, for example.
I went out with a boy, a barman, who had a bar that I went to a lot, and
I often talked to him. We used to joke. So, he asked me over to his place
to see a film, and eat a pizza, which I did. Then, there was this Daniele
with whom I had an experience, after Rezzon. Yes.

Okay. I would like you to explain, with a little precise chronology, your
movements on the morning of November 2nd. Do you remember more or less at
what time you arrived in the house in via della Pergola coming away from
Raffaele's place?

[Sigh] Okay. I left Raffaele's place around 10:30. I walked to my house, and
then I walked. I don't know how long it takes, but not a long time, to get to
my house. Then I went in. When I saw that the door was open, I called out
"Is anybody home?" but nobody answered, so I thought "Okay", and I left the
door open in case anybody was about to get back. The first thing I did was,
I went into my room and undressed, and then I went into the bathroom, took
out my earrings, and washed my ears...

So this was around 11:00 more or less, maybe?

More or less, maybe.

Okay.

Yes.

You undressed in your own room? as you just said?

Yes.

You also took off your shoes in your own room?

Yes.

And you went barefoot into the bathroom?

Yes.

Go on.

Okay. I can't remember if I brushed my teeth before or after taking a shower.
I think...before...I don't remember. I did brush my teeth, but I don't know
if it was before or after the shower. Anyway, I got into the shower, took
the shower, and then, getting out of the shower, I used the bathmat to
kind of hop over to my room, because I had forgotten my towel. Then I took
my towel, returned to the bathroom, dried myself and put my earrings back in.
Then I went into my room, got some clothes and dressed.

Can I stop you?

Yes, yes.

In the bathroom, did you use the bidet? or just the shower.

This time, I did not use the bidet.

Did you use the sink?

Yes.

And you cleaned your ears?

Yes. I cleaned my ears and brushed my teeth.

[Another voice (the Presidente apparently): "Cleaned your ears, what does that
mean? Did you use cotton swabs to clean your ears?"]

That was my question. [Oh, it was that?] Yes, yes, no, please go ahead,
Presidente. You forestalled my question.

[Presidente: "Did you use cotton swabs to clean your ears? Or did you just
wash them with water?"]

ur room?

Yes.

All right. On the bathmat, you saw drops like on the sink, or...

No, it was a larger stain.

A larger stain. Did it look like a footprint to you?

No. I just saw a stain.

How much more time did you spend in the house? After the shower and getting
dressed?

The time to get dressed and dry my hair, and to take the mop. And then I
left.

Okay. So, maybe another half an hour?

I don't think as much as half an hour. It doesn't take me long to dry my
hair because it's very fine, so it gets dry very fast.

Okay. Then you went back to Sollecito's house.

Yes.

It was more or less what time?

I couldn't say exactly.

You never looked at the time on your cell phone?

It wasn't important to me to know the time, so I didn't look. I didn't look
at the time very often, especially right then, when I didn't have any
particular place to go. I just wanted to go to Gubbio with Raffaele.

Okay. And when did you decide to return with Raffaele to your house?

He was in the bathroom, I think, when I got back. So I took the mop and
quickly cleaned up what was on the floor. Then while we were preparing a
little coffee, I told him about the things I had seen. And while we were
eating biscuits, I think, he said to me "You should call your roommates."
So first I called Meredith, then Filomena, and Filomena explained to me that
Laura was in Rome, and that I should go, or rather I should have gone to
see how things were. So I said "Fine, I'll finish breakfast," which took
a couple of minutes, and I left with Raffaele.

So the idea of returning to the house to check your friends' things, was
given to you by Sollecito if I understood correctly.

He...

He invited you to clarify matters by telephoning?

I asked him advice about what to do, because I didn't know what to think. He
said "Call your roommates to see if they know anything, if anything happened
to them."

And then you went back to the house.

Yes.

Together.

Yes.

And what happened then?

So, we looked around a little bit, and when I saw that the window was broken,
I became even more worried. So we looked through the rooms to see if
anything was missing. That's when I tried Meredith's door and couldn't
open it. I was worried. Then, leaving Raffaele in the house, I went
running downstairs and knocked on the boys' door, but they didn't answer.
I ran back upstairs and said, "What should we do now? I'll call Filomena,
and...

Let me interrupt you just one second. You knew that the boys downstairs
weren't home?

I didn't know.

You didn't know?

No.


Then why, in your interrogation of...we'll look at them together in a couple
of minutes...do you assert that you went to say hi to them one week earlier?
Do you remember that?

I remember, I don't know exactly when, but I remember that they were supposed
to go somewhere.

[Ghirga? "Objection: Is that the interrogation of Nov 3?"]

You can't make an objection about information [some legal term I don't
really understand. Long pause.] Can I continue? [Something...the statement
from the 6th? "obviously can't be used."] In the statement of November 3!
Can I continue? ["Yes. On November 3..."] Miss Knox was heard on the
subject of the boys: "The last time I was in the boys' house, it was about
a week ago, to say hi." [Ghirga? "This was confirmed in the interrogation
by the pubblico ministero, if I'm not mistaken."] However, it isn't important.

Yes, I -- can I answer? [Objecting, crossing voices. I catch the words
"against the accused." Amanda is heard to meekly say "all right". Maresca
is invited to continue, but apparently with a different question.]

Let's talk about the policeman that we heard, a witness from the Postal Police.
If you remember the episode where he asked you about the telephone of
Romanelli, and you told him it was Meredith's telephone. Is this true?
Do you remember?

I didn't understand.

When the two agents from the Postal Police came, they had this cell phone...

Okay, those.

Do you remember?

Yes.

[KnoxCase]

Did they ask you for the telephone numbers of your friends?

Yes, they asked me for the telephone numbers of the girls who lived in the
house, I think. So I gave them my number and the girls' numbers, yes.

You also gave them Meredith's number?

I think so.

Right. But on the statement from November 6th, the one from 1:45 that we
are allowed to use [There is an interruption which we can't hear. Maresca
says "What?" and then goes on.] The question is this: I'll give you
specific questions and you answer them.

Okay.

Did you meet Patrick Lumumba in the basketball court of Piazza Grimana on
the evening of the 1st?


No.

The fact that it is in your statement here, was that meeting specifically
suggested to you, or did you imagine it? [Another voice: "Excuse me. Where
in the statement?"] In the last line of the usable declaration from 1:45.
"I met Patrick immediately afterwards in the basketball court of Piazza
Grimana." [Objection: "This document has been disallowed except for the
slander case. It seems to me that it is the Kercher's defense lawyer who
is asking the question." Arguing (during which Amanda is heard to say
"So, should I answer?" a couple of times.)] I have specific questions, and
if I can ask them, I will, otherwise I will stop. Let the Presidente
decide. [Presidente: "Let's hear the objection." "The objection is relative
to the use of these documents, which are unusable, limited only to the slander
charge." Presidente: "So these documents were used only in the slander
case and limited to that?" "Yes." "Then it seems to me that the Kercher
family's defense has already...." (not clear to me what is said here but
apparently it is a green light).] So, I will ask a specific question.
["Please go ahead."]

About the succession of moments that you describe in this statement,
were they all suggested, like the final one, by the police, and then
imagined by you, or are there some that have a different origin? This
was my question. ["Yes, sorry. But the accused has already answered
this question. If there are other questions...so as to avoid going over
things that were already illustrated..."]

You underwent pressure, as you said, from the police who were asking you for
information. Was that also true in your interrogations of the 2nd, the 3rd
and the 4th, or only for the one from the 6th?

The police repeated their questions and wanted, above all, for me to tell them
who could have done this, but I didn't know how to respond. I told them about
all the people that I knew. The most intense pressure was in the Questura
between Nov 5 and 6, because I never lived through anything like that.
Before that, they would ask me and then say "Okay, fine." They wouldn't say,
for example, "Maybe you don't remember well" or "Maybe you're a liar".

So the other statements were made in a more natural, a lighter way.

Lighter, yes. But still always repeating.

Who was present, the same policemen or different ones?

There were so many policemen...

When you say "so many", what do you mean? Five, ten, fifteen, twenty?

Well...

For you, "so many" means how many?

In the sense that I didn't recognize the policemen from one time to another,
so I looked for the ones that were always there, for example, like the
person who led the interrogation on the 5th. That was a person who was
already there the first days that I was there. But in the sense that one
person said they were from Rome, one was from Perugia, one from somewhere
else that was going to arrive, so it was difficult to know them all.

But "all" of them was how many, more or less?

When? [Ghirga: "At the different times."]

At the different times: the 2nd, the 3rd, the 5th....the 4th.

On the 2nd there were so many witnesses, and so many policemen also. Other
times there were less because there were also less people.

But standing around you, interrogating you [Ghirga: "Can you say if there were
five or ten? Just as an indication?"]

For example, five...well, sometimes there was just this one woman, then
there would be five, then there would be ten, then -- [Ghirga: "Okay.
Go ahead, avvocato."]

So you don't remember how many there were? [Ghirga: "Yes, yes. Sorry,
avvocato--" Amanda says very loudly "One, three, five, it depended on the
situation!", while she's talking Ghirga keeps talking: "-- she already answered,
sorry, there."]

Do you remember talking on November 10 with your mother in prison, about the
declarations of Raffaele Sollecito?

If you could tell me which -- yes, of course I remember talking to my mother
when I arrived in prison, yes. [Ghirga: "But the specific reference to--"
Amanda interrupts: "To which date?" "No, to Raffaele Sollecito."]

Raffa--I-- it was a long time ago, and the fact that my mother came twice
a week makes it hard to distinguish the different dates.

Yes, but the question is specific. Did you talk with your mother about the
declarations that Sollecito made in the Questura?

I remember telling her that I was astonished by those declarations.

Why?

Because I didn't understand why he had to do it.

To do what?

Say something else.

Other than what?

Other than what really happened.

[KnoxCase]

Do you remember signing [your notification of arrest? (not sure)]

When I was in the Questura, I signed so many things just to get it over with
and go home. I signed so many things. And the arrest...I know they talked
to me about arrest, but I didn't understand everything that was happening,
I was shocked and deeply impressed by the whole situation, so I signed
so many things and....[Ghirga: "Okay. Go ahead, avvocato."]

But do you remember if this document, this act was translated into English?

I don't remember.

[At the same time as her:] Had been translated into English?

I don't remember.

You don't remember. Do you remember if when they translated it to you, they
explained to you why you were being held?

I remember understanding that it was some bureaucratic issue. I didn't
understand the specific situation, but at the same time, I was extremely
tired, exhausted, stressed, and I didn't understand anything any more. So
that fact is that everything they explained to me at that point, everything
seemed the same to me, total confusion. I just didn't understand.

Let's return to via della Pergola. I'm almost finished. When you returned
to the house in via della Pergola with Sollecito, and noticed the window
that was broken, did you check in your own room if anything was missing?

Just like that. I saw that my computer was there...

But yesterday you said that you had money.

Yes, I had some money.

Did you check the money?

I don't remember.

You don't remember. So you can't tell us if the money was stolen or not?

I honestly can't tell you. I can't remember whether or not I took a look in
the little drawer. The thing I remember is that my computer was there,
so I thought "Oh, if they haven't taken the computer," because it's a
good quality portable computer, so I would have thought it would be the first
thing a person would take from my room. And it was right there near the
door, on the table.

In your room in via della Pergola, was there a central light?

There was one but it didn't work, so I used the bedside lamp.

The lamp.

The little lamp, yes.

And you previously stated that you didn't look for the lamp either; you only
looked for your computer when you went into your room. You didn't look
for your money, you didn't look for your lamp.

So, I saw the window only the second time that I entered the house. The
first time I went into the house I didn't even think of looking to see if
anything was missing, because I saw going into the living room, it really
looked like someone had just gone out of the house, everything was in order,
just as I had left it. But the second time, I didn't even think of looking
for the lamp: the computer was the important thing for me. All my documents
were in it.

But the first time, when you took your shower and then you returned to your
room, first you undressed and then you dressed, all this, you did it without
any light?

It was the middle of the morning, there was already light.

Did you open your shutters or were they already open?

I don't remember.

To get to your room, to get to the window, you walked in the dark?

But it wasn't dark in my room. Often --

I don't know, I wasn't there.

All right. Usually I only turned on that little lamp at night. Really at
night, or in the evening, when I wanted to...So I didn't even think of
turning it on. It really wasn't dark in my room when I went in. [Another
voice: "It wasn't dark, but where was the light coming from? Natural light?"
"Natural." "And what window was it coming from, this natural light?" "I
only have one window, but it was also coming from the other side because
there's a balcony." "And the door of the bathroom? Meredith's door was
closed so no natural light was coming from there. Outside, there's the
little corridor, the living room, Romanelli's door, and Laura
Mezzetti's door. Which were the doors that let in light?" "The door
of the balcony on the other side of the corridor, which lets in light,
and then there was the window." "So, from the balcony, the corridor,
the light actually reached your room?" "Yes." "That was the light that you
had."]

You mentioned to your friends in the Questura that according to you,
Meredith died slowly.

They said...

How did you come to say that?

I heard that her throat was cut, and from what I saw in CSI [Crime Scene
Investigation] of these things, these things are neither quick nor pleasant.
So when they said "We hope she died quickly," like I don't know, in some other
way, I said "But what are you saying, her throat was cut, good Lord, bleargh.
I had remained at that point, that brutality, this death that was really
blechh, that made a horrible impression. That was what really struck me,
that fact of having your throat cut. It seemed so gross, and I imagined that
it was a very slow and terrifying death. So when they said "We hope it was
like this," I said "No, I think it was really gross, disgusting."

And do you know if, when Meredith was murdered, she screamed?

I don't know.

Did someone tell you?

No, uh, no. No, I didn't know if she screamed or not.

Did you talk about it with someone immediately after?

End of Audio #6

[KnoxCase]

Start of Audio #7

Did you talk about it with someone immediately after, when you were there
at the house, about whether she screamed or shrieked?

Not about that, no.

And did the police talk to you about the scream or not, when they interrogated
you on the 2nd, the 3rd or the 4th. Did they talk to you about the fact that
she screamed?

I don't remember.

Why did you say yesterday that they did? If I'm not mistaken.

[Another voice: "Not on the 4th."]

The 2nd, 3rd and 4th.....On the 5th and 6th, they asked me if I heard the
scream.

So on the 5th and the 6th, the police told you that she screamed.

They asked me if I had heard her scream. I said no. They said, but how is it
possible that you didn't hear her scream, if she was killed so near you? I
said, "I don't know, maybe I had my ears covered."

[Other voice: "Okay. Yes, yes. Now we'll return to..." "Okay, please."
"Excuse me, please."]

On November 4, at 3:24 in the morning, you wrote a very long e-mail to
25 people. Okay?

Yes.

All right, but why did you write it at 3 in the morning, after having been
in the Questura, where you said you were very tired, nervous, stressed and
so forth. I mean, how did you come to write such a long e-mail instead of
going to bed. This is the question.

Precisely because I was stressed and felt exhausted because of the police, I
had to somehow let off steam, because the whole situation was so heavy that
I couldn't even sleep. So I needed to write. I needed to let off steam by
writing, especially to the people who were worrying about me. So I
addressed it to all the people whose e-mail addresses I had in my e-mail.
I wrote down everything and sent it to them. Then I felt better.

I see. A last question, about the text message of Patrick Lumumba. Because
you answered in various ways, I would like to know if, when you received
the message, you were eating dinner in the house with Sollecito, or had you
already eaten, or were you going to eat--

We hadn't eaten yet.

--because this morning you said that it was later, that you ate dinner later and
the message arrived first. Is that how it was? Whereas yesterday, you said
that you were eating.


No. I never said that we were eating when the message arrived.

[Objection: "We don't have the transcriptions from yesterday--" "The question
is--" "--but the accused is here, and can say at any time...there. Sorry.
So your question was--" "The question is--" "Please go ahead. But without
making any reference to yesterday's testimony because unfortunately we don't
have the elements."]

With respect to Lumumba's message. What time was it in the evening? It
was 20:18.

I think, I don't know if we hadn't yet started to watch the movie or we had
just started to watch the movie, and then I realized that there was a message.

Okay.

[Another voice: (the Presidente?)
"So, you weren't eating." Amanda answers "No, no. Dinner
was later." "So the message corresponds to the moment where you started
the movie...whose title you gave yesterday, no?"]

Do you remember, on the 17th of November, having spoken with your mother
about the knife?

I talked with my mother about everything, so...

Yes?

Yes.

You told your mother that you were very worried.

I didn't understand why there would be Meredith's blood on a knife that was
found in Raffaele's house. Because [tense laugh] for me that was impossible.

[Presidente: "Excuse me, but with respect to the knife, which knife did they
talk about? I saw that it remained a little general." "Because she--
oh, no, sorry, Presidente." "Yes? Which knife did they talk about?"]

We were talking about a knife that had Meredith's blood...on this knife. And
for me, I couldn't understand it because it was impossible.

[Presidente: "Reference to that knife. Please go ahead, avvocato."]

Why did you say to your mother "I'm worried because there is a knife of
Raffaele's."

Well, I was worried because to me that was impossible. I didn't understand
how that could be.

[Quite a long silence as we hear Maresca flipping papers.] I don't know if
I have any more questions, Presidente. ["Yes, yes, go ahead, avvocato."
More silence pause, more sound of papers.] No, I don't have any more.
I'm finished, Presidente. Thank you.

[Another voice: Presidente?] There's still Sollecito's defense. The other civil
plaintiffs have no more questions.

[A voice: Maresca? not sure. "No, to conclude the examination, I simply
meant to--" crossing voices. "Do you want to conclude the examination?"
"No, I didn't see..." (can't quite catch this).]

I am the lawyer Giulia Bongiorno. [She has a sharp, snappy voice.]

Hello [Amanda actually says "Buongiorno"]

Miss Knox, you are accused together with Raffaele Sollecito of
murdering Meredith
together with Rudy Guede. I would like you to tell me exactly what kind of
relations you had with Rudy Guede. You already said that you saw each other
few times, but I would like to ask for more information about this aspect.

I didn't have any relations with Rudy Guede. I knew him in the sense that
someone said "Look, this is Rudy, this is Amanda." I saw him around a few
times. But I didn't have any relations with him.

Can you tell me if you frequented each other, if you went out together?
Because you said that once you saw him at a party.

Yes, he came into my bar once, for example, but there was always this fact that
I had to work there, he came in, I don't think I even gave him a drink,
because -- I don't remember the situation that well, but I think he came in
and then went out. I don't remember. But really, I didn't know him at all.

Did you exchange telephone numbers? Did you call each other?

No.

[KnoxCase]

Listen. A witness came here, whose name was Kokomani. [I think I heard a
very tiny smirk come out of Amanda here.] Kokomani told us about an episode.
I want to know if you remember this episode, which apparently occurred at
the end of October. Before Meredith's death, obviously. According to this
episode, you were together with Raffaele Sollecito, then Rudy Guede
approached, and according to the testimony, Kokomani was driving in a car,
you were with Raffaele in the middle of the street, Kokomani illuminated
you and at that point you took a big knife and turned it on Kokomani.
I'm not giving you the complete description, I am just asking you if it
happened, what happened, what you know about this event.

It's totally false. He totally imagined it.

Kokomani says you have very broad front teeth.

You can call me "tu" [the familiar form of address. Amanda uses it to
Bongiorno as well. Surely that is a bit strange.]

[Bongiorno doesn't do it, continuing to use the formal "lei".] Kokomani
says you have an uncle who came from America, and that in some summer
month, he said August but didn't fix a date, anyway around that period,
your American uncle was in a bar. Kokomani sat down next to him, and you
and Raffaele, in that period of summer, passed by and said hello to him.
Do you recall this episode?


It's impossible. I was in the United States and then, no one from my family
either speaks Italian or ever came to Perugia. Before, I came here with
my sister, on September 1st, and then nothing happened before I came to stay.

But does this American uncle who came here, that Kokomani knows, exist?

No.

Yesterday, you described your relationship with Raffaele, Raffaele Sollecito.
Is Raffaele a violent person?

No. The exact opposite.

Did you go to the apartment below yours with the police and did you see blood
there?

Yes.

I would need a clarification about this. The apartment below means the
apartment where the boys lived?

Yes. When you went down and saw the blood, how much blood was there?

Well, entering their apartment, on the right, the corridor curves, and
there's this room. And there was this cover which was all rolled up and
there was a little bit of blood on this cover.

What was it, an eiderdown, a quilt [piumone]?

What is "piumone"? [Interpreter: a quilt]

Yes, it was a kind of quilt, yes.

A kind of quilt. And you went down there together with the police?

Yes.

Did the police ask you to go down there?

Yes.

How were you dressed when you went down?

Still with same...you know, [familiar form, doesn't she know the
formal conjugation? or is this strategic?] I don't remember.

Were you wearing that suit that we saw that the police was wearing? With the
shoe covers, the gloves?

No, no, I was still wearing my own clothes. They gave me those -- things
that you put on your shoes.

The shoe covers. And gloves?

They gave me gloves when I went upstairs to look through the knives.


Yes, but excuse me. The day you went downstairs with the police and entered
into the apartment downstairs, you went in together with the police and you
didn't have gloves?

No, I didn't have gloves.

Did you see, during all these police operations every time you went there --
but in the end, how many times did you go to the house? The day of the
2nd, of the finding, and on the 4th?

Mhm.

On those occasions, did you see whether the police all had on these shoe-covers,
gloves, suits all the time?

I saw that the people I was with had things on their feet. I don't know if
they all had gloves.

Listen, it has been asked by lawyer for the civil plaintiff if you had ever
before experienced strange episodes with your imagination, or superimposing of
memories. So, I wanted to complete that. Has it ever happened in your life
before this to be interrogated with the methods that you have described?

Absolutely not.

So you connect this episode of your imagination with those methods?

Certainly.

When you refer to the fact that this famous interpreter told you an episode
about her personal life, to solicit a memory from you, I wanted to understand:
this interpreter, was she an interpreter that was speaking aloud and
everyone was listening, or was it between just the two of you. And in what
language did all this happen?

Oh no, it was really just between the two of us. She was right here, and
she was really talking right into my ear the whole time, saying "Come on,
stop it," because I was saying the truth because I wanted to go home,
"come on, maybe you just don't remember", it was like this the whole time.
It wasn't like she was translating what I saw saying to them. Well yes,
she also did that, but she was talking in my ear the whole time.

So, it is correct to say that during the interrogation, this interpreter was
having a conversation with you that could not be heard by third parties.

Yes.

You saw -- you were shown the written statement, and underneath it there
is a signature. This statement which was written on a computer, was it
written at your dictation? Did you dictate the words that were written in
the statement?

No. They wrote; they asked me: "Okay, what do you imagine?" And I said
"Maybe I imagine this," and they said "Okay, let's write this, and then
you tell us if it's all right or not. So they were writing, saying
"Okay, you met Patrick at Piazza Grimana, for example, you saw this, you
covered your ears." "Okay, fine, fine."

Okay. But when they made you sign the statement, you didn't explicitly
ask to reread it or to change anything?

They gave it to me to read, but...well, I did like this and then I just signed.

Did you ever have any judicial experiences when you were in America?

Absolutely not.

[KnoxCase]

From the telephone call we heard about yesterday, you had a friend who had
consulted a lawyer. You never thought in those days, seeing that you were
constantly called to the Questura, about calling a lawyer?

No, but this...Filomena consulted a lawyer about the house, about the rent and
about finding another place. I never thought that I might need a lawyer.
Because in the end, I knew what I knew, I didn't know anything else, so
the thought of finding a lawyer didn't even occur to me.

When you went to via della Pergola on the 4th, to examine the knives, and
when you became very disturbed and all that, with how many people -- how
many people were present?

So, I arrived with an interpreter and two policemen, and then there were at
least, at the very least, five, but I think even more, who were already in
the house, because there were so many people in the corridor, in the other
room, and in the other rooms, so--

But these people were moving around inside the house?

Yes.

When you, on the morning of the finding of the body, when before that you went
to take a shower, you said: "I got out of the shower and didn't have any shoes,
so I jumped on the bathmat."

Yes.

This bathmat that we're talking about is the bathmat that you saw projected
here in court in a video?

Yes.

Do you remember how you slid with the bathmat? When you took it from the
bathroom to your room, did you have both bare feet on it or just one foot.

[Amanda--sorry for this personal opinion, but to me this sounds like the most
flagrant lie I have heard coming out of her mouth in 8 hours of listening.
"LIE" is just screaming out of her voice with that little chuckle, and the
smile on her face that is obvious by her voice whose tone is indicating
"Crazy little me and my silly ways..." oh, this has nothing to do with any
footprints, of course...] Sometimes I...heh heh...by mistake, I
put my foot on the floor like this, but I tried -- I slid along trying to
kind of make little jumps with the bathmat, but I didn't quite succeed.

But it can be said that you were pressing on the bathmat with your foot?

Yes.

At the famous party downstairs where Rudy participated, you have already
explained that Raffaele Sollecito wasn't there, because you got there first.

Certainly.

Did Raffaele Sollecito know Rudy Guede?

No.

One witness, Gioffredi, has declared having seen four people one afternoon,
Meredith, Raffaele Sollecito, Amanda Knox and Rudy Guede together, coming
out of via della Pergola. Do you recall this episode? Is it true?

It's impossible.

Thank you. I am finished.

[Luca Maori] Just a couple of details. I am Luca Maori, Raffaele Sollecito's
defense. Referring to the moment in which you found yourselves, you
and Raffaele, in front of the house in via della Pergola, at the moment in
which you discovered that there were some problems, and then Raffaele
called his sister. Did you hear Raffaele's telephone conversation with
his sister?

No, they were talking between themselves on the telephone, and I was nearby,
but I wasn't listening.

And do you know what Raffaele's sister advised him to do?

I didn't hear her words, but she advised him to call the police or -- as I
understood it, to call the police.

Then, did you hear Raffaele's next telephone call, to the police or
carabinieri? Did you hear it?

Yes, Raffaele called the police, yes. I was there, nearby.

Okay. What did Raffaele say? Do you remember?

Mm...it was in Italian.

Because you also intervened, saying something to Raffaele. Do you remember
that?

Yes, because umm...Raffaele was talking about the fact that...the strange things
when I came back to the house, at least, he was talking about these things,
but in the end, I kind of had to let him talk, because I--he was really
talking about...

Yes but Raffaele, during this telephone call, asked you for your telephone
number and so forth?

Yes, indeed. He turned to me for clarifications, in the sense that well,
also for the telephone number that he could get from me, I mean the police
could get from me, because I was the resident of the house. I didn't
really help, but I did give that phone number, yes.

So you can say that at the moment when Raffaele was speaking with his
interlocutor, which was from the carabinieri, not the police, he asked you,
Amanda, for the telephone number and the precise address?

Yes.

And you answered Raffaele?

Yes.

And Raffaele gave this information in his turn?

Yes.

Who was around then? Was anyone there?

No, we were still alone.

Nobody had arrived yet?

No.

Thank you.

[A pause. Amanda very quietly] May I have a rest?

[Another voice] A little rest, certainly. Let's suspend proceedings for a
while, and start again with the examination by the defense...

[Amanda] Just five minutes.

Let's take ten minutes. [Noise] Ten minute break.

End of Audio #7

[KnoxCase]

Start of Audio #8

[Someone announces the production of a report from the FBI, transmitted by the SCO,
on the episode which is the object of a newspaper article which has been acquired. It
will be placed at the disposal of all parties. "We may now proceed with the
examination of the accused who remains ready to answer, she is already seated in
her place. Please, the defense lawyer who asked to examine in order to conclude it.
Please try to avoid useless repetitions."]

I am the lawyer Carlo Pacelli, Patrick's defense.

Hello.

Signorina Amanda, hello. I simply want a few clarifications.

Certainly.

Did you by any chance know Rudy on September 1, 2007?


No.

On November 1, did you meet Rudy at the basketball court?

No.

Did Rudy ever provide you with joints?

No.

Listen, signorina Amanda, I will now put to you some questions about your statement of
November 6th, 2007.

Okay.

The one that you made to the pubblico ministero, on the circumstances which were not
included in the statement of 1:45.

Okay.

Before Meredith was killed, did you hear thuds?

No.

Then why in your statement of Nov 6, the one of 5:45, made to the pubblico ministero,
did you declare that you heard thuds.

It was always following this thing where they wanted to understand--

They, who they? Sorry, but could you give names or titles? You were giving your statement
to the PM.

The PM and the policemen who were there. But when I made that declaration, also the PM
was one of the people who said to me, "So, you did this, you followed this person, you
heard this, but why?" That's how it was.

So it was the pubblico ministero who put the words "I heard thuds" into your mouth?

He wanted to know how come I hadn't --

I asked you a question.

[One of her lawyers?: "She's answering, she's answering. Go ahead, go ahead."]

He wanted to know why I hadn't heard Meredith. I was confused, and I was trying to
imagine things that I had forgotten.

[Another voice (Ghirga?): "You're going back to what you already said about this
useless--" Pacelli: "But signor Presidente, the circumstances need to be clarified.
I need to clarify them." (Ghirga?): "Excuse me, avvocato, but let's not return to--"
Pacelli: "I won't." [overlapping voices] Pacelli: "This question has not been posed
as a question of circumstances." (Ghirga?) "But she already explained the situation."
Pacelli: "Anyway, she won't answer me, Presidente." "Go ahead, avvocato."]

You said that you had good relations with Patrick.

Yes.

Then why, in your statement of Nov 6 2007 at 5:45, did you say you were very frightened
of Patrick.

Because, imagining him as being capable of murdering someone, at that moment I was scared.

Did someone suggest this to you? The PM?

They asked me what Patrick was like? Was he violent? I said no, he's not violent. But
are you scared of him? And I said yes, because thinking that he was the person who
killed her, I was scared. Also because in those days I was thinking generally that there
was a murderer, and I was frightened.

Why didn't you say this to the police in the statement of 1:45?

Say what?

That you were afraid of Patrick.

Because they hadn't asked me yet.

Listen, in the statement of Nov 6 at 5:45, you declared to the police that you met
Patrick in the morning of Nov 5, in front of the Universita per Stranieri.

Yes.

[KnoxCase]

My question is the following: was this also suggested to you by the pubblico ministero?

They asked me when was the last time I had seen Patrick, so I told them it was on that
morning.

And this true circumstance served to strengthen the accusation against Patrick?

[Lawyer? Presidente? Excuse me, let's avoid value judgments and simply ask about
circumstances.]

A clarification about the scream. If I understood correctly, you said a little while
ago that it was the police etc. But at 5:45, in your statement of 5:45, you made this
declaration in front of the pubblico ministero: "I heard Meredith scream." Textually:
"Meredith scream". How could you know -- how could you know that Meredith screamed before
she was killed if not even the police knew at that moment that Meredith had screamed.

[Amanda starts "I never said..." but Ghirga interrupts: "Excuse me, excuse me." Someone
(Pacelli?): "Calm, avvocato Ghirga. I'm doing this examination in a calm way. I want to
do this calmly. E basta." "Avvocato, still, please avoid repeating questions."
"On this, I was interrupted yesterday by dalla Vedova, and she didn't answer."
"Excuse me, avvocato. She had already answered." "No, no, she did not answer." "She did."
"No, yesterday, she didn't." Presidente: "Please, please, avvocati. There's no reason."
"Excuse me, Presidente." "It seems to me that the defense lawyer is asking
whether you, during your spontaneous declaration of Nov 6 at 5:45, you made reference
to a scream of Meredith that you heard. The pubblico ministero asked how you could
refer to this scream."]

They asked me if I heard a scream from Meredith. I said no. They asked me "How could
you not have heard her scream while she was killed?" I don't know why they asked me that,
but I answered that I hadn't, and they said "How could that be?" and I said "Maybe myears were covered." And that's it.

[Someone: Presidente? "Okay, okay. But the perplexity of the defense lawyer is because a
witness actually spoke of this scream."]

Well, I would ask the police about that.

[Ghirga? Excuse me, can we move on now?]

[Pacelli:] Two more clarifications.

[Ghirga? "Go ahead."]

In your conversation with your mother of Nov 10, when you said you felt terrible
for getting Patrick in prison [Amanda: "Certo."] etc., you say that you
mentioned this circumstances uniquely to your lawyers. Now, did you tell
them about this before the 10th, or after the 10th?

I told everything to my mom as soon as I could, all my feelings and everything.

Yes, but to your lawyers, did you say this before or after Nov 10?

I imagine before, but I don't know.

Do you remember when?

I don't know the dates. [She continues "Everything I said, I said that it was
impossible" but at the same time, Pacelli cuts her off.]

Listen, listen. One last question.

Tell me [she uses the familiar "tu".]

When you gave your declaration to the examining tribunal, you confirmed the
memorandum of Nov 6. Why didn't you exonerate Patrick?

I wrote in the memorandum that I was trying to express my doubts. So I was
confirming the fact that I wrote those things to say that what I had said
before was an error. Including what I had said about Patrick.

Listen, in your memorandum of November 6, you explicitly say -- you were
writing in English, right?

Yes.

And you wrote it freely, yes?

Yes.


You say "I stand by my statements that I made last night about events
that could have taken place in my home with Patrick."

In my memorandum, I recognized the fact that I had made those declarations,
but that I had a lot of doubts as to the facts that were in my declaration.

Do you know what the word "confirm" means in Italian? [Note: she didn't
use the word "confirm" but "stand by" in the memorandum, as cited above.]

I wrote in English.

Yes, but in English, I think the word "confirm" has the same meaning as Italian.

What I wanted to express was the fact that I recognized having made the
declarations, and I recognized that at the moment when I made those
declarations, I made them with good will, in the sense that I thought maybe
it was something that could have happened and could have been true.
Recognizing that, I started to write the memorandum.

But successively in this memorandum, you confirm "I see Patrick as the
murderer."

I was IMAGINING Patrick as the murderer in my imagination, but in my
memory, I could not know this.

Listen, two last -- very last questions. [Pause, sound of flipping pages.]
Excuse me one moment. Well, I can't find them. But I'll just ask them orally.
Now. Somebody, on the evening of Nov 1, in the house of horrors, via
della Pergola, apparently recognized your voice. Do you remember who?

[Objection! Objection! Can you repeat the question?]

I'll change it, then. I'll change it. I'll reformulate it like this.

["Can you repeat it, per carita?" "I'll repeat it, I'll repeat it."
"Excuse me, please, go ahead."]

Rudy asserts that he saw you in VIA DELLA PERGOLA [raising voice to speak over
further objections: "Excuse me, excuse me! Please, please!" "Excuse ME.
Can I ask my question? She'll answer that it isn't true. Like for the
joints, like for everything." "Excuse me, avvocato, first ask her, give
her a chance to answer." (Voices overlapping here, very confused, hard
to follow.)]

Did Rudy recognize your voice? Did he see you flee the house at via della
Pergola after the crime?

It is impossible.

Thank you, signor Presidente. I have no more questions.

[KnoxCase]

[Another voice: probably the Presidente: "Excuse me, excuse me." Ghirga? "He
finished." Presidente? "Did you--"" Ghirga? "He finished." Presidente?
"Yes, he finished, but I think, on this question... Do you know what Rudy
has said?"]


Over the course of this investigation I have heard that he says certain
things, but they are not true.

[Presidente? "Avvocato dalla Vedova?" "Yes. To exhaust the question.
He already indicated that he finished the examination."]

[Someone new: presumably dalla Vedova, especially as he uses the familiar
"tu" with Amanda] I'll just quickly give some details, and I will
try to be very brief. In relation with the phone call of Nov 17 2007, from
a conversation in prison with your mother, I will read exactly the following
text (page 6 and page 7), and then I will ask you questions.

Okay.

I read on page 6 that you said in that conversation: "Yes, when I was in the
room with him, I said something (laughs), and then when I went back into the
room, I was crying. I was very, very worried about this thing with the
knife, because there's a knife from Raffaele's..." First question: this was
on November 17. What knife were you talking about, and how could you
know about this knife at this date?

I heard for the first time about the knife from a police inspector while I
was in prison. He showed me an internet article which said that there was
blood on a knife that they had found in Raffaele's house. And I said that
for me, I was worried because for me, that was just impossible. I didn't
understand how such a thing could be.

So, when you're talking about there being a knife from Raffaele's, you meant
this knife that you had heard about in this way, from Raffaele's house.

Yes.

Then right after, your mother says: "Here, here are the facts: we talked
yesterday with the lawyer, and we asked him about the knife" -- maybe I'll
skip this, because this part isn't relevant. Then you say: "It's
crap, a piece of crap, a total invention. That's what they're doing now.
They're just lying." And later, page 8 of the transcript of the conversation,
you say "It's all an invention." And you say: "It's stupid. I can't say
anything other than the truth, because I know I was there. I can't lie
about that. There's no reason to do it." When you said "I was there", what
did you mean?

Raffaele's apartment.

Which was the one you meant when you talked about the knife.

Certainly.

I would now like to ask to show a photocopy of a document handwritten by
the accused, which we obtained from the documents in the dossier. It
is a half-page written in English [to someone else] (the dossier of the PM),
and it is part of the green diary [another voice: "--which is
already in the dossier--"] which is already in the dossier. ["--so the
parties already know it--"] It is a document of which I would like to
request the acquisition, and I would like to ask the accused to read and also
to translate it; first to recognize it, and then to read it.

[Another voice: "This document, if you have it here, can you show it to all
parties, so that they can all follow?" "Excuse me, I would have made copies,
but..." "It is in the dossier." "But usually I do it." "It's the diary?"
"It's number 415. It is in the dossier of the PM, not this one."
"But we have the diary." "The famous one. But this is different. These are
in little notebooks that were sequestered." "So, be specific and if necessary
we will acquire it." "This is sequestered information, if I'm not mistaken,
relative to documents that were in Knox's room, and there were three little
notebooks, all of which have been translated. Part of them contain the
homework that she was doing for her courses, and the rest is a personal
diary which has been the object of evaluation." "The parties have now seen this
page, this document, so maybe now we can show it to the accused."]
It is exact that this document has never been translated. So I wanted to
ask Amanda, as a first question, if she recognizes this document as hers? It's
a photocopy, but--

Yes, I wrote this in the Questura.

Can you be more precise? Do you remember the date? The date, and the time
at which you wrote this?

This is the second one, when I was...after I was interrogated, and while I
was kind of waiting. I wanted to ...I had so much emotion and didn't know
how to express it, so I started writing.

But what day are we talking about?

The 2nd.

November 2?

Yes.

Could you [formal]--could you [familiar] translate this into Italian, this
letter?

Yes, I can try. So, "I'm at the Questura now, after a long day telling how
I was the first person to go to the house, and find my roommate dead.
How strange. The only thing I want to do now is to write a song about it.
I would be the first song I ever wrote, and it would be about [at this
point, Amanda starts getting increasing help from the interpreter] someone who
died horribly and for no reason. How morbid is that? I'm starving.
I keep wanting to say that I could kill for a pizza, but that doesn't seem
right. Laura and Filomena really really (how do you say this?) [Interpreter
almost
inaudibly: "they ****ed up" ("si sono fottute il cervello")] -- and also
Raffaele -- [interruption: "What? Laura and Filomena?" Interpreter, still
very softly: "...are ****ed up. Si sono fottute il cervello." "Can you say
it in the microphone? What did they do?" "It's an ugly word. (mumbling)
so sono fottute il cervello" But he's insisting too loudly to hear her.
"Please, go ahead. What is it?" Interpreter, still mumbling but now into the
microphone, with a voice literally shaking with embarrassment: "si sono
fottute il cervello". He repeats the words VERY LOUDLY, while the
interpreter has recourse to the English, probably less embarrassing for
her to pronounce: "are ****ed up. Are really ****ed up." Amanda says:
"They're very..." the interpreter finishes: "very agitated." Amanda goes on.]
Yes. Raffaele also. I am angry. First I was scared. Then
I was sad. Then I was confused. Then I was angry, and now I don't know.
I can't [murmurs in English to interpreter: "I can't really wrap my mind".
Interpreter helps her.] really wrap my mind around this. I didn't see her
body. I didn't see her blood. It's almost as though it hadn't happened.
But it did happen, in the room right next to mine. There was blood in the
bathroom where I took a shower today. The door of the house was open to
the wind and now I am without a house and forever, without a person who was
a part of my life. And I don't know what to do or think.

Perfect. I request the acquisition of this document for the dossier.

[KnoxCase]

[Presidente? "All right. Do you have any other questions, avvocato?"]

There is another document extracted from the same diary, I'll call it that.
Also this one, if I could ask you to confirm it and to read it? And in
between, I'll ask this question. When you were in the Questura, you were
writing this?

Yes.

What are they, notes? Notes, or a diary?

Yes, I write little bits of diary everywhere, and for me, always following
this method of understanding and expressing my emotions, because at the
moment when I wrote that, I didn't even know what I was feeling. There was
a heaviness, and there were all these emotions together, so I needed to write.

Because for you it was normal to write like this?

Certainly.

Can I read it? [A long pause. Looking for it?]

[Another voice (Ghirga?)] Can I take advantage of this...since there's a
reference to a song, it seems relevant. At one point in your prison diary,
you refer to the words of another song, Let it Be, of the Beatles. What do
these verses mean to you? At that moment in particular. We're talking about
the time between the 8th and the 29th of December. So what is the
significance of these words "Let it be" ?

For the first months that I was in prison, it was an essential song for me,
because since I didn't know how to confront the situation, I was trying to
think about home, and this song makes me think of home, because it's a song
I used to sing with my friends, in front of my family, so I was thinking about
me, how I used to be. At the same time, it is a song that talks about being
in a dark moment, so it helped me to confront the situation. For months,
I was alone, I was isolated, and when I went out, to walk for instance, I was
there, and the only thing I could do was sing. I sang this song very often,
to make me feel better.

Perfect. Now about this document, maybe I can read it myself, and ask you
for confirmation.

That's fine.

It's only four lines. On this page, I see a number 83, probably from the
dossier, there's a little drawing and a sun. I'm also reading the mistakes
in Italian. "My mom is arriving tomorrow. I'm very happy about that.
I actually ate dinner with friends" or "I prepared it", I don't know).
"Raffaele's friends. But now I'm very tired. I don't want to stay."
Can I show you this document and ask for confirmation that it was written
by you, and again ask you where and when?

So I wrote this--

First, do you recognize your handwriting?

Yes, this is mine. I wrote it when I was at the Questura waiting for Raffaele.
It was actually at the very beginning. I took this and started writing.
Then the policemen...sorry, it was November 5, 2007.

I request the acquisition of this document.

Listen, in reference to the telephone calls you received on the 3rd, 4th,
5th, 6th and 7th, and the e-mail that you sent to 25 people on November 4,
do you remember how many people called you on your cell phone? If this
helps, I can tell you that from the 3rd to the 7th you had 64 calls counting
the text messages. Do you remember this number more or less?

I remember that there were a lot. [Short discussion in the background.]

And then you wrote this e-mail to 25 people because they were...

So many people were worried about me. [Short discussion in background about
acquisition of document.]

Getting to the morning of the 6th, because we wanted to explain
what happened after the arrest. In particular I would like you to briefly
tell us what happened in the morning, say from 8:30, until you were brought
to prison. Briefly.

Ah. So, there was the fact that I had to eat something, so they brought me
something to eat, but then at a certain point they took my shoes away, for
example, so I was kind of barefoot, and then I had to wait until they could
re-enter my house to bring me other shoes.

But who were "they"?

The police. There were policemen who went to my house to bring me shoes that
I had in my room, and also other clothes.

What shoes were you wearing?

I was wearing Sketchers.

Sketchers?

But they brought me my big hiking boots that I had in my room, to bring me
to prison.

So that morning, they went to your house to get your shoes, or you already
had them?


No, they went from the Questura to my house and brought them back to me. On
that morning.

And also clothes?

Yes, also a skirt and...I remember the skirt and the hiking boots.

This is a new element. But had you asked for these clothes and shoes?

I asked because I didn't have my shoes, "But where can I go without shoes?"
And so they said "We'll go to your house to bring you shoes and then you can
go to prison."

So they took your shoes and left you barefoot for a certain period of time,
until you got the boots?

Yes, yes.

All this in the Questura.

Yes.

In this time, they never told you about the arrival of a lawyer for you, a
public defender [avvocato d'ufficio] appointed for you -- do you know what
an "avvocato d'ufficio" is?

Well, now I know, but at that time I didn't. And I don't remember ever meeting
a lawyer.

They never appointed a public defender for you? They never told you?

No. If they did, I didn't understand it.

So, accepting this, at a certain point you wrote your memorandum, and then
you were brought to prison.

Yes.

I'm talking about the first memorandum. I just want to get to this
memorandum, and then I will conclude, because...Now on this, I know it has been
the object of analysis, so I just want to ask for the reading of four
parts that seem relevant. The first question I want to ask you is, when you
say that something results from the translation of this document, which is
not even an official translation; it's in the dossier but it is neither
signed, nor stamped, nor dated--

Ack! Audio #8 ends at this point and there don't seem to be any other ones
out there! Too bad.

[KnoxCase]

Start of Audio #9

[Laughing] I speak English, German and Italian now. I studied other
languages, but I can't say I speak them.

What other languages have you studied?

Japanese, Latin, and...

I see. Listen, can you give us some information about this course on
creative writing? And some information about the homework?

Certainly. There's been so much discussion about a piece of homework that I
did.

What was this course? Where did you take it? What was it?

I took so many creative writing courses, but in one of them, they asked me to
write a piece on the ten minutes prior to the discovery of a body.

This was the subject given to you by the teacher?

Yes. It was exactly the subject.

For everyone?

What?

For all the students, or just for you?

No, for all the students.

Do you remember the name of the professor? This was at the university?
Where did you take the course?

It was at the university.

In Washington?

Yes, in Washington.

What's the name of the university? Washington State?

No, University of Washington. Washington State is our rival.

Okay.

It's true [giggle].

So, for this course, you did this homework.

Yes.

Perfect. But what is writing for you? You already explained something about
this today, but--

Yes, for me it's the way to really express myself, and the way to be creative,
to produce something which for me means beauty, which for me means emotion,
for me it's a way to express myself.

And you've always kept diaries?

Certainly. I've got diaries everywhere. I usually have at least one notebook
to write in with me in my bag, because I don't want to find myself in a
situation where I have an inspiration and I have to write on some piece of
paper, or a napkin.

Why did you write your prison diary? For the same reason?

Yes. For me, I had so many emotions that I couldn't...for me, it's a way of
understand how I am myself, and to let off steam, to understand myself, to
express myself, so I wrote this diary to help me confront the situation.

And are you writing a diary now?

Yes.

And this diary which is in the acts, from the period of Oct 8 to Dec 29, 2007,
when you were in prison, do you remember what happened?

Yes. They called me downstairs and told me that they had to confiscate some
things in my room. They told me I could either go up with them and do what
I wanted and they would come later with a warrant, or I could let them take
whatever they wanted spontaneously. I said they could, so they came up with
me and looked in all my things, and they took everything on which I had
written anything.

Listen, in relation to this diary, there is a part in which you tell about
the AIDS tests that were made in the first days. Can you tell us? It's
written in the diary, but you can tell us exactly what happens, and also why
you wrote about it in the diary?

So, the first thing that happened when I got to prison was that they made
a [blood] analysis. After the analysis, they called me downstairs and told me
that they had to make further tests because I might have AIDS. I was really
shocked because I didn't understand how it could have happened that I could
have gotten AIDS. But they advised to to think about where I might have
caught it, so they wanted me to really think about it. So I was writing in
my diary about how astonished I was, and then I wrote down every partner that
I had ever had in my life...

How many are there? Do you remember their names?

Seven.

These are the partners that you had in your life?

Yes. All of them.

Why did you write them down? For some kind of check?

Yes. For me it was a way to think about the facts: okay, I made love with him,
but he doesn't have AIDS, what about this one? No, he doesn't have it either.
These were people that I knew.

And were you worried about this situation?

Of course.

What was your reaction when they told you?

Mamma mia, I was crying, and they wanted to console me, they told me "It's
okay, you just have to--" but I was thinking "No, I'm dying, I'll never have
children", I was thinking it was the end of my life!

How many times did they make the test?

Me?

How many times did they make the test to check whether you were positive?

So, I think it was three times. I think they made one where it was negative,
then one where it was maybe positive, maybe negative, and then one where it
was negative.

How much time passed between the first and the last?

Two weeks.

So for two weeks, you were worried about having AIDS.

More than that, it was panic, I was crying.

This was during the first period of time that you were in prison? Do you
remember the period of time?

Yes. In fact, I didn't understand anything. I was there with a cellmate who
was going crazy, who kept yelling "Don't touch me! You have AIDS!" and then
there was this inspector who kept coming to talk to me, saying "Ah, come on..."

What? An inspector or a doctor?

There was an inspector who called every day...

And then there was a doctor?

And there was also a doctor who also called me every day.

[KnoxCase]

Now, returning to your arrival in Perugia. Did you know Italian at that time?
Compared to now, for example?

I had studied elementary grammar. Then I forgot everything over the summer.
Then I got here and started working on these basic elements again, and I
was trying to put myself in situation where I had to understand or try to
understand, so usually I understood about half of what was going on.

With your roommates, Laura and Filomena, and with Meredith, what language did
you speak?

With Meredith I spoke English, and we even tried to speak Italian, but after
a certain time when we got to know each other, when we wanted to really
discuss something more than "Let's make pasta", then I talked with her in
English. With Laura we spoke a mixture of English and Italian, and I couldn't
speak that much with Filomena because she didn't speak very good English.

What language did you speak with Marco Zaroli?

With them I spoke in Italian, but I couldn't even really speak with them, so
I was always there listening to their conversation, maybe sometimes saying
some little thing, but above all I didn't speak much with them.

And with Luca Altieri, how did you speak?

Always a little in English with a little Italian, and above all just listening.

And with Raffaele, what language did you speak?

There too it was a mixture of English and Italian, but more than anything, he
often had to translate things into English for me, because I was forcing
myself to try to speak Italian, and then when I didn't understand, which
happened often...

And how is it that you speak so well now?

Me?

Yes.

Because I employ my days studying.

What do you do in prison? You read, you watch television, you read newspapers?

I mostly read, and study.

What are you reading now?

Right now I'm reading "Hadrian's Memoirs" by Marguerite Yourcenar [she has
no idea how to pronounce this name]. This is a French writer but I'm reading
her in Italian translation.

Now, could you tell us something about your relations with your roommates,
above all making a distinction between Laura and Filomena and then Meredith.
Your relations with Laura and Filomena, how were they?

So, I liked Laura really a lot because she's a fascinating person. She was
like a lawyer in the day, and then a guitar-playing free spirit in the
evening.

You played guitar too, didn't you?

Yes, yes. We played together.

Did you have your own guitar?

Yes. Well, I had a guitar in the States. Then when I came to Italy, I asked
Laura if I could use her second guitar while she played hers.

So with Laura, you played guitar together and she lent you a guitar.

Yes. We also did yoga together.

You did yoga?


Yes.

And with Meredith?

With Meredith, we spoke mostly about literature, because she read so much. Even
when it wasn't for school, she read mysteries and things. What would often
happen is that we would find ourselves together on the balcony taking the
sun, and she would have a book and I'd have my guitar, and we'd be together
like that.

What do you remember about your lives together? Were there some episodes
together, like the Chocolate Festival?

Yes.

Or taking the sun, those things.

Yes. For instance, we went together to the Chocolate Festival, and there was
a band that we liked a lot, that wore this green shirt--

You mean a musical band?

Yes, musical, and they were dancing with their instruments and they were making
a film, and they filmed her and she was saying "No, no, don't film me!"

Did you take pictures? On that occasion?

Yes.

Where are those pictures?

On my computer.

But your computer, you heard that it was examined? The last time you used it,
it was working?

It was working fine.

So in your computer there were photographs of you and Meredith at the
Chocolate Festival?

That, and pictures of us going around, and she asked me to take pictures of
her next to her window, where you could see the view. They're all in the
computer.

[Another voice: Massei] Excuse me, difensore. When was the last time that
you used your computer?

I was listening to music. When I was at home, my computer was always on, and
when I left I turned it off. The last time I used it must have been on Nov 1,
when I came home. I changed clothes, I listened to music, I checked
this and that, and when I left, I turned it off.

[still Massei, I think] How do you explain that when your computer was
subjected to examination, it was burned up by an electric shock? Do you have
any explanation?

I think someone burned up my computer.

[Massei] Thank you.

[Ghirga] Listen, did you go to restaurants with Meredith?

Yes. In fact, the first day that--

Did you like Japanese cuisine?

Yes, yes, so we did go. Once was on the very first evening, we went to a
restaurant with her and her English friends to have a pizza, and another
time we went to ?? [didn't catch name of restaurant] to watch a rugby game,
and another time we went with Laura and Filomena to a Chinese restaurant,
and another time we went all together to an Italian restaurant.

Did you also get together with Meredith's English friends?

[KnoxCase]

Yes, but not much. [Laughs] Not much, because in the end, after I got a job
with Patrick, we didn't get together much, because they didn't go to my
university, they went to Meredith's university. So we didn't meet there,
and then I wasn't going around having fun any more, so we didn't hook up.
But that was fine.

But you preferred to be with Italians or foreigners?

I preferred to be with Italians, because I wanted to feel Italian, I didn't come
to Italy to feel English.

So, on this question of the English friends, you heard them hear in court, do
you remember?

Yes, yes.

And what was your impression of the declarations of Amy Frost, Sophie Purton,
Natalie Hayward and....and Helen Powell?

[Massei?] Avvocato, is this just a question of personal impressions--

[Ghirga] And the facts they reported?

[Massei (continuing)] or are there some specific circumstances? [Can't hear
well, crossing voices, something like:] Not just impressions.

[Amanda starts to answer] By the fact that--

[Massei] Excuse me, could we make the question explicit? Because on impressions,
one can't pronounce oneself, one can't expound--

[Ghirga] Certainly not. I'm talking about impressions of the facts that the
girls presented.


[Massei] Yes but..with reference to...I don't know.

[Ghirga] For instance on the fact that there was a certain friction between
you and-- between the roommates. The English girls all said that there
was some friction in the house over some specific facts. Do you agree with
this, with what the girls said?

Well, actually, I was astonished and didn't feel right about what they said,
because I don't think I deserved that attitude. I never did anything with
them that deserved that.

But was it true that there was friction in the house?

For me, no.

[Massei?] But do you remember this? These friends of Meredith stated that
Meredith had some complaints about the confrontations...

[Amanda] Meredith--

[Massei?] ...about the ways of living together, of keeping order, in
the bathroom. This essentially, if I remember right, is what the English
friends said when they referred to what Meredith told them on the
confrontations.

Certainly. When Meredith had a problem with my behavior she just told me, and
that was it. There was nothing that stayed hidden or for which we couldn't
find some solution. If she had something to tell me, she told me.

Listen, did you relations with Meredith actually change over the time period?

No, it was only that I went out to work, so I didn't have time any more,
or even the energy to go around, to have a drink at Merlin's for example.

On the night of Halloween, is it true that you had some contact?

Yes, I sent her a text message to ask her what she wanted to do, because I
wanted to--

This was on October 31 2007, the night of Halloween? October 31?

Yes, yes. Yes, I wanted to ask her what she was doing because I wanted to
know if she wanted to meet me.

So, returning to the question of friction, is it true that there was a rotation
system for cleaning the house? Someone had come up with a cleaning system?

Yes, but it was very recent, I mean from just before the crime. I -- we
had done that just a few days before. This whole system with turns came quite
late.

I see. Did you have bleach [candeggina] in the house? Do you know what
"candeggina" is?


I didn't know before going to prison, but now I do. I didn't know what was in
there. If there was any, really.

[Massei?] Excuse me, avvocato, when you say "in the house", do you mean in the
via della Pergola?

[Ghirga] Via della Pergola, yes.

I didn't know if there was any there, in the house.

I see. From certain declarations which you spontaneously emitted in the
following days, you were heard to mention a certain "Juve". Who is this
Juve?

Juwe is the friend of Laura who found me the job with Patrick, because he worked
for Patrick. In fact, he was my personal contact at work. At least, he was
the one who often had to translate for me, to tell me what I was supposed to do,
also because since my Italian wasn't great, I would listen to Patrick, and
then turn to Juve to ask him what I was really supposed to do. He spoke
to me in English.

But what is his nationality?

I think he was Albanese? I don't remember. But he was a foreigner. He hadn't
been in Italy very long.

We've already spoken about your relations with Patrick. But I wanted to ask you
one thing. Did Patrick ever have any complaints about you? For example,
because you didn't show up for work, or because of the way you worked?

Ye-es...he told me once, at least, once he asked me to be a little more
professional at work. Maybe I was chatting too much. Or maybe I didn't...I
don't know.

[KnoxCase]

And when you met Raffaele, was Meredith also there?

When I met Raffaele? Yes, yes, she was at that concert with me, yes.

And then on the 26th, when you introduced Raffaele and Filomena, who else was
there with you? On the 26th?

[Massei?] The 26th of October?

[Ghirga] October 26, 2007.

[Amanda] So, the 26 of October.

[Massei] The day of the concert?

[Amanda, almost simultaneously] The day of the concert?

[Ghirga] The concert was on the 25th. This was the next day.

[Amanda] Oh, the day after. Sorry, dates are difficult for me. So, the
question was...

[Ghirga] If you remembered the 26th, but if you don't remember...

I don't remember from the date, but maybe from the circumstances.

Well, do you remember the 30th of October, when you talked with Laura and
Filomena?

Yes, I asked for some advice from the girls about Raffaele, because I felt a
little guilty, since I still had some feelings for an ex-boyfriend that I had
left behind in the States.

This DJ?

Yes.

The one with the nickname DJ?

Yes.

Did you also talk about the rent at that time, on October 30? About the
payment?

I think Meredith offered to pay right away, but they said no no, wait till the
actual pay date arrives and give us the money then.

About the party that was on the 31st, did you know that Mezzetti was going
to Viterbo and that Filomena was also going out?

Well, I recall that -- this is for November 1st or for Halloween?

For the 30th, the 30th of October.

Oh, before! I think that Filomena mentioned a party to me but Laura, I don't
think she told me.

I see. No, can you tell us what happened on the 31st, the evening of Halloween?

Yes. I went to Le Chic, Patrick's pub, I spent a little while there, and then
I joined a friend of mine, Spiros, a friend I had met around town, in a bar
where you could use internet, and I joined him near Merlin, but we didn't
enter, in fact he was just coming out, so we went to a different place, and
then I was tired, so they left me in the center and Raffaele joined me, and we
went to his house.

At what time?

Around 2, maybe?

And did you know what Meredith was doing that evening?

Um, she said that she was going out with the girls, so...

You sent her a text message on that evening, to Meredith?

Certainly. I asked her if she wanted to meet me, and I think she answered that
she was going with the girls.

[Massei?] Excuse me, when you say "the girls", you are referring to...

[Amanda] The English girls. That group.

[Massei] Meredith's English friends?

[Ghirga] Yes. But the message that Meredith sent you on October 31 2007, at
19:04, "yes I have a party, but I have to go to a friend's house for dinner--"

[Amanda] Oh, right.

[Ghirga] "what's your program? x" What does "x" mean? A kiss?

Yes, a kiss. "X" is a kiss.

Do you remember this message?

Yes, yes. In fact the day after Halloween, the 1st of November, she was telling
me about it when she woke up. She explained to me that the Halloween party
that they--there was this--they had made a kind of pink fruit juice, and a
hand made of ice that they put inside it. She thought that was really ghostly.


So, to this test message of 19:04, you answered with another, at 20:03 still
on October 31, saying "I'm going to Le Chic for a bit, and afterwards who
knows, maybe we'll see each other. Call me. What are you doing this evening?
Do you want to meet? Do you have a costume?"

Yes.

Do you remember that?

Yes, yes.

Can you tell us about the relationship between Meredith and Giacomo Silenzi?
When did it start?

They kissed for the first time at Rezzon, this disco, and then they spent the
night together, and then they went on like that, seeing each other a bit,
always at the house...

[Massei] Excuse me, if you could give the dates? If you remember when.

[Amanda, sighing] It must have been around the middle of October, but I...

[Massei] When?

[Amanda] Around the middle of October.

[Massei] Middle of October?


[Amanda] Yes.

[Massei] Did you already know -- just to help situate this episode in time,
did you already know Raffaele Sollecito when--

[Amanda] No, no.

[Massei] So this was before you met him.

[Amanda] Yes.

[Massei] Before. Mid-October.

[Amanda] Yes.

[Massei] Go ahead, avvocato.

So what kind of relationship did they have? Was it a passion? Was Meredith
enthusiastic about this boy?

Um, I wouldn't say she was exactly in love, because she said she still wanted
to...she wanted to be a little bit more free, maybe see him, maybe go out...
because it's not like they were going out together. Usually they were only
together around the house. So she wasn't exactly in love. In fact, she told
me that she wasn't in love with him. A kind of crush.

And what kind of activities did you do together, for example --

So, Meredith and I?

Did you go to restaurants?

[Massei] Together with whom, can you say?

[Ghirga] Together with Meredith and Silenzi.

You mean what they did together?

What they did together with you. Weren't you with them sometimes?

Oh, yes. Around the house, we were always playing at this game where we were
trying to understand each other, because that was also a game in the end, trying
to understand what we were saying to each other. Then, when we were together
at night, sometimes we watched television, for example we watched "Ciao Darwin".

Did you smoke joints together?

[Swallowing audibly, nervously] Sometimes, yes.

Who got them for you?

Usually it was the boys from downstairs, and we smoked them together.

Were you aware that there was a plantation in the apartment downstairs?

[Giggles innocently] Noooo.

Did you know that there were keys to the downstairs apartment in your house?

No.

You never saw the keys to the downstairs apartment in your house?

No. They just gave me a key to the house and said "This is yours."

[Massei] Who gave you the keys to the house?

[Amanda] Laura.

[Massei] So these keys were to the main door of the house --

[Amanda] Yes, the entrance door, and --

[Massei] -- and to your room. Two keys.

[Amanda] -- oh, in fact --

[Massei] Excuse me, two keys?

[Amanda] No. I didn't have a key to my room. I think there was one once, but
I never locked it, so the key I had with me was only for the entrance door.

[Massei] The main door.

[Amanda] Yes.

[KnoxCase]

[Massei] Of your room, no.

[Amanda] No.

[Ghirga] I am trying to follow a chronology which brings us now to the 1st of
November. We already analysed -- I'll try not to repeat myself, and if I do it,
excuse me, but it's so vast, the analysis of the elements is so vast after
I think a good 30 hearings, that it's necessary, after all the elements produced
by the pubblico ministero, to turn back to what happened on the 1st of
November. So first of all, I wanted to know, we heard that you woke up and
what you did, on the morning of November 1st.

Yes.

Do you remember whom you met that morning? What you did? Something to do with
a package for a party?

So, on November 1st, yes, there was Filomena who came back in a big hurry,
and she asked me to help her boyfriend to put together this package, which
was a present for a friend.

Was Meredith there?


[Giggles innocently] Noooo.

Did you know that there were keys to the downstairs apartment in your house?

No.

You never saw the keys to the downstairs apartment in your house?

No. They just gave me a key to the house and said "This is yours."

[Massei] Who gave you the keys to the house?

[Amanda] Laura.

[Massei] So these keys were to the main door of the house --

[Amanda] Yes, the entrance door, and --

[Massei] -- and to your room. Two keys.

[Amanda] -- oh, in fact --

[Massei] Excuse me, two keys?

[Amanda] No. I didn't have a key to my room. I think there was one once, but
I never locked it, so the key I had with me was only for the entrance door.

[Massei] The main door.

[Amanda] Yes.

[Massei] Of your room, no.

[Amanda] No.

[Ghirga] I am trying to follow a chronology which brings us now to the 1st of
November. We already analysed -- I'll try not to repeat myself, and if I do it,
excuse me, but it's so vast, the analysis of the elements is so vast after
I think a good 30 hearings, that it's necessary, after all the elements produced
by the pubblico ministero, to turn back to what happened on the 1st of
November. So first of all, I wanted to know, we heard that you woke up and
what you did, on the morning of November 1st.

Yes.

Do you remember whom you met that morning? What you did? Something to do with
a package for a party?

So, on November 1st, yes, there was Filomena who came back in a big hurry,
and she asked me to help her boyfriend to put together this package, which
was a present for a friend.

Was Meredith there?


I think Meredith was still sleeping.

Do you remember how you were dressed?

Who?

You.

Me?

Yes.

I think I was wearing jeans and a sweatshirt.

Jeans and a sweatshirt.

End of Audio #9 from Friday's testimony

[KnoxCase]

Audio #10, Friday, June 12, 2009

The topic was the clothes Amanda was wearing on November 1st. I'm not quite
sure who is examining here. I think it's alternately Ghirga and Massei. I
am guessing: all initials are just guesses (except Amanda, obviously).

LG: Jeans and a sweatshirt. Can you describe the sweatshirt?

AK: It was a striped sweatshirt, grey and black, with a hood.

GM: In relation to these clothes, had you done any laundry that morning?
Had you done washing together or separately, or used the drying rack? Did you
do any kind of laundry activity on that morning?

AK: Well, it was totally normal for me to put things on the drying rack along
with the things belonging to the others. So, yes, I took the things I had
that were dry and I put them in my room.

GM: Was it also normal for you to mix clothes together inside the washing
machine?

AK: It was normal, when someone needed to use it, they just put stuff in and
did it. Yes, yes.

LG: Do you remember a friend who dropped by in the afternoon -- I'm going over
this quickly because we already analysed the lunch and so on, it doesn't seem
important to me to cover it again -- but, do you remember a friend of Raffaele,
for the question of the suitcase --

AK: Ummmm--

LG: We heard her testimony here. Popovic.

[Another voice] Yes, but Presidente, please can we try to avoid suggesting
names, timetables and so forth. We were talking about a friend, a person
who came to visit.

GM: Excuse me, yes. But it was to recall the episode that is the subject of
the question. What day are we, avvocato? The evening of November 1st?

AK: November 1st, yes.

LG: The afternoon of November 1st. Do you remember if Raffaele had something to
do for a certain Popovic Jovana, that he was supposed to help her to bring
a suitcase--

[Another voice: "Objection! Excuse me!" Arguing voices. "If necessary, we
can briefly suspend proceedings. We should try to avoid these moments which
do not facilitate anything."]

LG: Can you tell us about this friend of Raffaele's?

GM: That's right. Before anything, did you know this girl?

AK: I didn't know the girl, and in fact, when she came, she started talking to
me really fast in Italian, and I said "Look, I don't understand, come inside
and talk with--"

GM: And this first meeting with this girl, when was it? What day was it?
What time? Afternoon? Evening?

AK: So, I remember that I was listening to music on Raffaele's computer, so
it was before we watched the movie that she rang. I went to the door,
and she immediately started talking in Italian--

GM: This movie, what was it? The one that--

AK: Always the same one, The Fabulous World of Amelie.

GM: And the date is?

AK: Still November 1st.

GM: You hadn't started watching the movie yet, so we are still in the afternoon?

AK: Yes, yes, it was the afternoon, but I don't remember the time. It's always
the same problem.

LG: Now, did this friend have an appointment with Raffaele Sollecito for that
evening?

AK: Raffaele explained to me that he was supposed to drive her to the station--

LG: At what time?

AK: Around midnight.

LG: So, on that night, Raffaele Sollecito had an appointment with this Popovic--

AK: Yes.

LG: --Jovana, to accompany her to the station?

AK: Yes.

LG: And then what happened?

[Another voice] Excuse me. I again object. We have understood the desire of
the defense to follow the chronology of everything we have heard over these
last months. We take note of it. But we should still ask questions to the
accused, listen to the answers, and then from the more general, go towards the
more particular. For example, how was the appointment going to work? How
were they going to go? On foot? By car?

LG: If we all know the answers--

GM: Excuse me, excuse me, please. Do you know what the object of the
appointment was? What they were supposed to do?

AK: I understand -- he explained to me --

GM: He? Raffaele?

AK: Raffaele explained to me that he was supposed to take her in the car to
the station around midnight--

GM: Which station? If you know?

AK: I thought it was -- well, I always went to the one station, the one where
I arrived from Rome, so...that one. But I don't exactly know--

GM: The train station?

AK: Hm?

GM: Train station or bus station?

AK: Trains, I think. Well, I understood station, so this is just what I
understood. I didn't know about the suitcase.

LG: The question is: what happened with this Popovic Jovana on that evening?

AK: Later on, she came back and talked with Raffaele, and Raffaele explained to
me that she didn't need to be driven to the station any more.

[KnoxCase]

LG: Do you remember by any chance if she came to the house?

AK: Yes.

LG: And what happened?

AK: Raffaele talked with her.

GM: What time was this? You mentioned the movie earlier. You said that the
first time she came by, you hadn't started watching the movie yet. Later, when
she came back, had you already started watching the movie? Was it going on?
Were you watching? With reference to all this, so as to reconstruct things
a little, also in your memory--

AK: Right.

GM: --what time we're talking about, what part of the day, of the evening.

AK: Aaaaahhh....I don't remember very well.

GM: What were you actually doing?

AK: I think we were having dinner, but I'm not sure.

GM: Dinner. So you had already finished watching the movie, according to the
timetable you gave earlier in this examination: movie, dinner and then other
things.

AK: I think so.

GM: So, at dinner. Go ahead, avvocato.

LG: Passing to another topic, but still in the evening of the 1st, there is a
clarification about your cell phone. Did you turn off your cell phone on that
evening?


AK: Yes.

LG: And why?

AK: Because I didn't want to be called back, to go to work. I didn't want to
be disturbed.

LG: This was the cell phone on which you received the message of Patrick that
we heard about, and from which you answered. The same cell phone?

AK: Yes, yes. I received the call --er--I received the text message, and I
was so happy that I wanted to spend the whole night just with Raffaele, so
I turned it off so as not to be called or called back.

LG: Do you usually turn it off at night?

AK: Not usually, because I use it as a clock, an alarm clock, so usually
I don't, but on that night I did.

LG: And did you have plans for the next day?

AK: Yes, we wanted to go to Gubbio with Raffaele.

LG: So there were no classes.

AK: No, I think it was a holiday.

LG: Now, getting back to the famous text message, we have already analysed the
actual text contained in the dossier: "Ci vediamo dopo". Now, in your mind,
exactly, the "See you later" that is the English translation of this, could
you translate it by "Ciao"?

AK: So, it wasn't even "Ci vediamo dopo", it was "Ci vediamo piu tardi" which
literally is "See you later", which in English is a way of saying "Ciao".
And then, I said "Buona serata."

LG: For the 2nd, from of all the declarations, I'll just try to make a few
clarifications, so as not to repeat too much. The first one is the question
of the door. You have explained how on the morning of the 2nd you went to
take a shower in via della Pergola, and you found the door open. Precisely,
did this door have a defect? What was the problem?

AK: It was defective, and if you didn't close it with the key, the door opened
by itself. You couldn't just shut it, the wind would open it.

LG: As for the rest of the house, how was it? Were there any problems with
the shutters? Was it a safe house? Were there any complaints about the
condition of the house?

AK: I felt fine. I remember that Laura sometimes complained that there
were druggies around, but I felt quite safe.

LG: I see. Do you remember when you called Filomena, more or less, on that
morning?

AK: I called Filomena when Raffaele advised me to call someone.

LG: And what did Filomena say?

AK: Filomena was worried. She asked me if I had called Meredith, and I said
I had already called but she wasn't answering. I told her what I had seen,
and she said "OK, when you've finished, go to the house and check everything
that happened and call me back."

LG: And the carabinieri? Did Filomena say anything about calling the
carabinieri or the police?

AK: I don't know how to call the carabinieri or the police, but she only told
me to go see how things were.

LG: Did you try to climb over the balcony?

AK: Yes. When I saw that Meredith's door was locked, and that if she was in
there, she wasn't answering, I really wanted to find out whether she was in
there or not. I was confused about this, because why should her door be locked
if she wasn't inside? So first I tried -- the way the house is situated,
she had a window near that little balcony, so I first tried to climb over
the balcony to see if I could see inside. But I couldn't, and [laughing]
Raffaele was saying "No, get back here!" and pulling me back onto the balcony.
So then he tried to knock the door down.

LG: Yes, and I know that you had tried to open the door together, hadn't you?

AK: Yes. Raffaele tried giving it a kick, and also pushing it with his shoulder
to open it, because we didn't know why that door should be locked.

LG: And you also tried calling out Meredith's name?

AK: Of course, and I also tried looking in the keyhole.

LG: And who arrived at the via della Pergola that morning? At a certain point,
the postal police arrived.

AK: Yes. Two plain clothes policemen came.

LG: Did they arrive together?

AK: Yes.

LG: Marsi and Battistelli?

AK: I don't know their names. [Hasn't she been sitting in court for the last
five months? Is she stupid? Or is she supposed to pretend that time has
stopped since November 2nd? Or is she using the present tense by mistake
instead of the past?]

LG: And what did they ask? To go into the house? Did they ask for information?

AK: No, I said "Look, come inside", because I was convinced that they were
the ones that Raffaele had called. I found it strange that they arrived so
quickly, but...

LG: And they told you that they were there for the problem of the cell phones?

AK: Yes, in fact, they told me that after I brought them into the house. They
showed me the cell phones and said they were looking for a certain Filomena.
And they asked me for the cell phone numbers that I had. I told them that
there were strange, strange things, but our communication was always kind of
fragmentary, with Raffaele as go-between.

LG: Okay, now I'll jump a little bit because you already answered. When they
opened the door and found the body, you remained for a while in the garden.

AK: Yes.

LG: And then in the car, because it was cold.

AK: Yes.

LG: Did you cry at that moment?

AK: Me? Yes. I cried, but Raffaele kept hugging me. First he gave me his
jacket. Then he consoled me. I was trembling, I didn't know what to think, I
was in shock. So he was cuddling me and hugging me and telling me not to worry,
and I cried inside this protection that he was offering me.

LG: Who was the first person you called to tell them about this terrible news?

AK: My mom.

LG: Was there anyone else in Perugia that you could have called, who could
have given you advice or comfort? Did you know anyone else in Perugia that
you could have called?

AK: No, I...

LG: Was there anyone else in Italy that you could have called, to ask for
advice?

AK: No, I don't have any family.

LG: Who was your nearest relative? Your aunt in Germany?

AK: The nearest was in Germany.

LG: Thank you. Now, how much time did you spend in the Questura that night?

AK: So much, so much time. I think it was -- heck, it was so long. At least
twelve hours.

[KnoxCase]

LG: Until the next morning? Or until midnight.

AK: Yes, until the next morning. And then they asked me to come back later
that morning. They told me to go home and sleep, and then to come back.

LG: What did your mom and your aunt tell you when they called you on the phone?
What advice did they give you?

GM: Her aunt contacted her?


AK: Yes. My family called me.

GM: So your aunt contacted you as well as your mother. The lawyer is asking
you what they told you.

AK: They wanted me to be careful, but above all, they wanted me to go to them,
to try to find myself. I was so disoriented, and I didn't know where to
go, where to look. So they thought maybe I should go to be with them, but
I didn't want to leave Perugia or Italy, because of collaborating
with the police, and then, I just didn't want to leave this place.

LG: How many times did you go to the Questura in the following days, the 3rd,
the 4th, the 5th?

AK: I went back every day.

LG: And more or less for how many hours, for how much time?

AK: It depended, but it was always for some hours.

LG: But did you also go to class on those days? You tried to continue your
normal life?

AK: Yes. Finally on the 5th, I had time to go to class. And then
Raffaele was called.

LG: Did you also talk to Filomena in those days?

AK: Yes, I talked to Filomena and Laura, always talking about what happened,
but also that we wanted to find a place where we could be together.

LG: At this point I would like to ask the Court to listen to a telephone
call between Knox and Filomena Romanelli from the 5th. There's an audio.
Precisely giving some confirmation on this point. So if
you authorize me, it's about three minutes.

GM: Please do. It's the one for which a transcription was requested?

LG: Exactly.

GM: Please do. Is the telephone call in Italian? [Background noise] Go ahead.

LG: So, this is the telephone call that was intercepted on Nov 5th 2007,
starting at 22:29, and the first question that I will ask Amanda is: where
were you? Maybe it's better if -- do you remember where you were at 22:29?

AK: Twenty-two...wait...

LG: Ten twenty-nine, ten thirty.

AK: Which day?

LG: The 5th.

AK: On the 5th...umm...ten thirty...that would be around class time, so...

LG: No, in the evening.

AK: Oh, in the evening, oh, the evening! I was still at the house of these
neighbors.

[Telephone call audio: loud ringing or beeping]

FR: Hello?

AK: Ciao bella.

FR: Ciao bella, how are you? [very sweet voice, kind, not at all hostile]

AK: [Italian noticeably less good than now, slow, yet really not so bad, not
totally a beginner] Oh, fine. I had a good day, without police.

FR: Aah...

AK: But Raffaele received a "call" [in English]--

FR: From whom?

AK: From the police. So we just got here, to the Questura, for questioning.
But I have to wait outside. And when he...umm..umm..

[LG cuts off the audio]

LG: I'm stopping it. Amanda, who were you talking to in this phone call?

AK: With Filomena.

LG: And where were you?

AK: At the Questura. I was near the elevator. Waiting for Raffaele.

LG: And the call came on the cell phone? [Strange question, it was Amanda
calling]

AK: Yes.

[LG restarts the audio]

FR: Finishes?

AK: That's right.

FR: So you're there again today.

AK: Yes.

FR: Madonna!

AK: I know. And I thought I wouldn't [inaudible squeak but I'm guessing she
said "have to come here today"]. And what did you do today?

FR: Me, today, I went to my office to get some information about our contract.

AK: Yes? And how is it?

FR: It's good, it's good. And then I called the agency.

AK: Mmm. And?

FR: And I have an appointment for tomorrow morning.

AK: Tomorrow morning?

FR: At 9:30. Yes. I'm going. Do you want to come?

AK: Um, I have to meet my mom at the station.

FR: Fine, fine.

[LG interrupts the audio]

LG: I'm stopping it for a moment to ask this question. How is it that you
were worried about the rental contract of the house? What was your worry
on November 5th?

AK: We had to clarify with the agency about the house, because when we paid
the rent, we were paying either the agency or the landlady, and what we
wanted to know, we wanted to get out of this contract at the agency, to
find another house together.

LG: And who was taking care of these questions?

AK: It was mainly Filomena.

LG: I see.

[Restores telephone audio]

FR: Then let's -- [at this point she switches to English. Cute accent -- but
her English isn't really any better than Amanda's Italian! Literal
transcription.] We can do in this way, if you want. After that I get
in the agency office to talk about what we have to do...

AK: Yes?

FR: ...after I have to go to office to talk with my lawyer...

[A voice intervenes, perhaps the interpreter? LG stops the audio] Afterwards
she had to go to her office to see her lawyer. [Background murmuring.
Audio rewinds a bit and starts again, this time translated orally bit by
bit by the interpreter]

FR: ...about the problem of the home because he says that we have a problem.

AK: Yes?

FR: And if...if the agency says there are some problems with the rest of the...
rest of the...in legal ways [I think this is what she just tried to say but
it's hard to understand. The interpreter simply says "One can't understand
Romanelli's English very well" (!) At this point Filomena switches back to
Italian.] We're okay because it's all in our favor.

[KnoxCase]

AK: Good.

FR: Then I'll go to work but if you want, we can see each other after and
you can tell me how it went.

AK: Yes, and you can meet my mom.

FR: Okay!

AK: Good.

FR: Okay! Then if she needs anything, we can see about it, okay?

AK: Yes, sure. Call me, okay?

FR: Okay, fine. Say hi to Raffaele.

AK: Okay.

FR: Take it easy, Amanda. Bye.

AK: Sure, of course. [Something unintelligible]. Ciao bella.

FR: Ciao, ciao.

[End telephone audio]

GM: Go ahead, avvocato. Your question?

LG: The question is this. Your main worry right then was the question of the
house, firstly because Amanda didn't have a house right then, and then
because your were worried about the rental contract, as we understand from
this phone call.

AK: Yes.

LG: So you were looking for another house?

AK: Yes, we wanted to stay together.

LG: Who, "we"?

AK: Me, Laura and Filomena.

LG: So you wanted to reproduce the house in via della Pergola.

AK: And then find another together [unclear what she means: find another
house? find another roommate?]

LG: This was your project?

AK: Yes.

LG: And during that time, you were staying at Raffaele's house?

AK: Yes.

LG: Did anyone else help you with the problem of housing in those days?

AK: Some people offered to help me, for example, with contacting my
university, who sometimes offered places at hotels, like when my mother
was arriving. But while I was waiting for my mother, I wanted to be with
Raffaele, because I was with him and I didn't want to be alone. Then
when my mother would have arrived, I wanted to be with her.

LG: I see. So your short-term projects were to find a new house and to be
with your mother who was arriving on the 6th.

AK: Yes, until I would have a new house with Filomena and Laura.

LG: I see. We heard about the night of the 5th and 6th, and I wanted to
know if you went, and how many times you went to via della Pergola.

AK: So, after Nov 1st, I returned twice, I think. Once to look at the
apartment of the boys downstairs, where they had found blood in a room on
a cover and they asked me if it was normal and I said no, then they asked
me about Meredith's sex life--

LG: Meredith's sex life? What about it in particular?

AK: If she used vaseline, and if she did anal sex.

LG: What did you answer?

AK: That I didn't know those details of her life.

LG: They also told you something else, about the access to the apartment
downstairs?

AK: I think they asked me if I knew about the keys of the apartment
downstairs, and I said no.

LG: Now about knives, at that time did they ask you about knives?

AK: So, on the 4th is when they asked me about knives, they asked me to
look in our kitchen, in the upstairs apartment, to see if there was anything
missing. But honestly, there were so many...firstly, there were so many
knives in that house, and then I just took a look and I just said "I don't
think so", and then I was kind of taken by this impression that I had of the
house, and I just started crying.

LG: Why?

AK: Because, because of so many things. Just being near the house made
a kind of terrible impression on me. Then I was keeping so much stress
inside, so much...and it was as if I suddenly realized the brutal reality
of the situation, so I sort of collapsed in my emotions.

LG: Then, on the morning of the 5th, you went to class?

AK: Yes.

LG: And you did some work for the teacher?

AK: Yes. I did this work but it was also to express myself because I just
couldn't get the whole story out of my mind. Because after I returned to my
own house, I still felt that I had too much--that the situation was too much,
too heavy. I was scared to go around alone even during the day, and going
there, even at that moment, I kind of let off steam, because we were supposed
to write a letter, and the thing I most wanted to do right then was to write
a letter to my mom. So I did it, because in the end I couldn't even think
about anything else.

[Someone, maybe GM?:] This was the famous e-mail sent to 25 people?

AK: No no no.

End of Audio #10

[KnoxCase]

Audio #11, Friday, June 12, 2009.

AK: No no no. This was something I wrote for school.

GM?: Oh, for your university.

AK: That thing that I wrote in the e-mail was earlier.

GM?: I see.

LG: That morning, did you have any contacts with journalists?

AK: No.

LG: And your cell phone was on that morning?

AK: Yes, I turned it on in case the police wanted to call me.

LG: In case the police contacted you?

AK: Yes. They had told me to keep my phone on all the time, so that I could
answer them when they wanted me to return to the Questura.

LG: I see. So, in all these days, following the discovery of the body, did
you ever think about turning to the American Embassy, or to a lawyer?

AK: No.

LG: Because they were calling you every day to the Questura.

AK: More than anything, I thought they wanted to talk to me so much because
I was the closest person to Meredith in the house. And then, I was the person
who went back to the house and found the mess. I never thought I needed
a lawyer or to talk to the Ambassador, because I thought, okay, I'll just
answer a couple of questions, and then I can get on with my life, I
don't know. And I still had to orient myself in the world around me; I never
even thought of contacting someone like a lawyer.

LG: And the fact that you were being called every day to the Questura, didn't
that worry you and your family?

AK: [Sigh] For me, I didn't understand why, but I really never, never thought
that they suspected me. Never.

LG: When they arrested you, did they tell you why? When they put the handcuffs
on your wrists, on the morning of the 6th?

AK: If they told me, I didn't understand it. Because in the end, when I
found myself--

LG: And what did you think, when they put the handcuffs on you?

AK: I was surprised. I thought-- They told me "Come on, it's just for
a couple of days, because we're protecting you," so I said "All right,
fine, but actually, you're not even listening to me." And then in those
following days, when I was like a-- when I was alone in the cell, in those
days, I unexpectedly came in front of the judge, with two lawyers, and they
said "Ah, you are accused of murdering Meredith," and I just stood there with
my mouth open with everybody staring at me like "Hmmm".

LG: On the morning of the 6th, you didn't understand why they were arresting
you.

AK: No. No. I -- they -- I thought that, as I had understood from them, that
it was a formality that they had to do because there was some testimony
that I had been near the scene of the crime.

LG: But in the days that you spent in prison before that, before you met
the undersigned lawyer Ghirga, what were you thinking during those days?
What did you think was happening?

AK: In those days, I only wanted to clarify the things that I hadn't
understood before, those images that I had imagined, that contradicted
the reality that I remembered. This was my main preoccupation. For me, those
days were a big moment of crying and confusion, and fear, and cold. Really,
it was freezing.

LG: When did you know about the arrest of Rudy Guede?

AK: I saw it on television.

LG: And what did you think?

AK: Ummm...I thought they were going to let me leave.

LG: Did you know Guede?

AK: I had met Rudy, but I didn't really know him, because actually, I couldn't
even remember his name.

LG: And when did you know that Patrick had been freed?

AK: I saw it on television. And I was really happy.

LG: You were really happy for him?

AK: Yes.

LG: And your thoughts, did you write them down?

AK: Yes, I wrote them, I told my mom, I was really relieved. But I was still
in prison myself.

LG: Did you meet a priest in those days, in prison?

AK: Yes. I still often see him to talk about all kinds of things, even
philosophy. He is a real friend to me. Yes.

LG: And what exactly do you talk about?

AK: We talk about my family, my thoughts, my studies. He gives me books to
study from, and when we're together, there's a group that gets together to
sing, to dance, to discuss theology.

LG: This might be a good time to take a break because I think there is a
little tiredness on the part of the accused, but also in general.

GM: All right, let's suspend proceedings for ten minutes.

AK: Fine.

LG: I don't want to make this very long, but there are still some
circumstances--

GM: No, no. Take the time that you need.

LG: But I would like it to be clear, with the agreement of the other parties,
that it might be necessary to suspend for today and continue tomorrow,
seeing that... But I will leave the decision to you.

GM: No, tomorrow has been programmed to "exhaust" [cross-examine].

[Crossing voices: "Let's finish today." "I think it depends on the accused.
Maybe she needs to stop now." "Let's continue a bit. If we don't succeed
in covering everything..." "Okay." "If we don't manage to complete the
current proceedings today, we can continue it tomorrow morning, until we
conclude it under the best possible conditions. For now, we will suspend
proceedings for ten minutes."]

End of Audio #11

[Jester]

Thank you so much for posting this. It gives a glimpse into what's actually happening in the courtroom. In particular, I like this:

"[I think this is Ghirga] My objection concerned the fact that the pubblico
ministero seemed to contest the fact that in the Dec 17 interrogation, she
also explained that she turned off her phone because she didn't want to be
called by Patrick, because she didn't want to be disturbed. This doesn't
correspond to the truth, because on page 40 of the minutes, she actually
says "So, I turned it off also to not run the risk that Patrick would
change his mind and call me in." [Interruption] "To save her battery!"
"All right, we heard the pubblico ministero...we heard him describe a reason,
two reasons, if there's a contradiction, there will be an analysis. It's
not only half a contradiction, or not a contradiction." [different voices]
Now let's leave this question...please, pubblico ministero. Go ahead. [I'm using this expression to translate "prego".]"

It appears that the prosecutor is trying to misrepresent facts. On the pages he referenced, two reasons are given for Amanda turning off her phone, but he implied that she was lying in court when she said she turned off her phone to avoid calls from Patrick to go to work. He only quoted that she turned off her phone to save her battery, but she had provided both reasons during her interrogation.

[Jester]

That must have taken some time to post. You wouldn't happen to have a reference? If you can't post it, please PM me. Thx

[KnoxCase]

http://quotidianonet.ilsole24ore.com/2009/06/13/191232-amanda_accusa_ancora_polizia.shtml

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fquotidianonet.ilsole24ore.com%2Fcro naca%2F2009%2F06%2F12%2F190666-knox_mette_sotto_accusa_polizia.shtml

this gets it to the main site. Friday and Saturday.June 12 June 13 2009.

[n/t]

I haven't read all of the testimony yet. Thanks KnoxCase for posting it.

What bothers me the most from what I've read so far is that Amanda has a difficult time remembering and/or she "imagines" a lot of things.

Was it because she was afraid and intimidated or is she a liar and fabricated a story?
I guess that will be up to the jury to decide but I find it very unusual that she couldn't remember the simple things like what she was wearing?:unsure:

[Jester]

I haven't read all of the testimony yet. Thanks KnoxCase for posting it.

What bothers me the most from what I've read so far is that Amanda has a difficult time remembering and/or she "imagines" a lot of things.

Was it because she was afraid and intimidated or is she a liar and fabricated a story?
I guess that will be up to the jury to decide but I find it very unusual that she couldn't remember the simple things like what she was wearing?:unsure:

I agree, she does claim to be imagining things too often. She also claims the intimidation tactics confused her. Police use all sorts of tricks to get people to confess, and confessions are accepted in courts everywhere. It doesn't sound to me like the intimidation tactics in Italy are any worse than other places.

[jaxback]

I know we aren't getting all the details or a really clear account of what is happening there, but the one thing that has always made me really suspicious of Knox is her lies placing the bar owner at the scene of the murder. For someone who is vague and confused and unsure of what/where/when/who about so many things, why that solid lie? That's one heck of an imagination this young woman has in order to "imagine" the presence of someone else and name him as the killer. Has there ever been any explanation for that story?

[dgfred]

Thanks a bunch for posting all that KnoxCase :thumbup: :thumbup: .

[n/t]

It's too bad we didn't get the cross. Was that posted anywhere, KnoxCase?

Her behaviour is all too weird and creepy to me. She told the cops an imaginary tale implicating her boss? Whether she's innocent or guilty, this girl needs her head examined. Seriously. It's frightening.

[KnoxCase]

I think my lengthy post is somewhat out of sequence.

there were two days of testimony.

June 12....started with Patricks Lawyer, Charge F- slander thing. Then Mignini comes in.

June 12th has 12 sections. (I think i mixed up at section 5).,...

but anyway. its all in sections, so if you read the section and its about Nov 2 for example there's that, or if you scroll around there's the interrogation, which is in a few places.

I was re-reading it and even found some things.

Like her pc activity, was mentioned and it was on Raffaele's and she said she checked her email on Nov 1...never heard anything on this.

But it seems the alibi is believed by both sides, prosecution agrees or has no interest in anything until after 8:45 ish, as the Popvic was a witness they were both at the apartment. and there was cellphone activity up to 8:35-8:45 ish time.

I'll check this posting... but I think the two days were intermingled out of order some....oops.

[KnoxCase]

my bad...forget that last post. i was incorrect.

the June 12th I was reading and trying to glue to a sequential order.
i'll post it up...

its better imo.

[KnoxCase]

here's an excellent posting of the June 12 testimony.

http://perugiamurderfile.org/amanda-knox-trial-testimony-t165.html

[n/t]

here's an excellent posting of the June 12 testimony.

http://perugiamurderfile.org/amanda-knox-trial-testimony-t165.html

The font is tiny. Is it just my computer? How do I adjust it? :blushing:

[n/t]

control plus

Thank you.

I only read until audio 3 for now and again, my concern is her "imagining". It's very disturbing.

I think the Prosecution made a good point. Why would she imagine if she wasn't there? Especially covering her ears part when the police had no idea whether or not Meredith screamed.

The cops were interrogating her as they should but she kept adding her make belief tale like Casey Anthony.

Why would she do that?

[n/t]

here's an excellent posting of the June 12 testimony.

http://perugiamurderfile.org/amanda-knox-trial-testimony-t165.html

Thanks for posting it.