7/16 -- Nine Doctors Who Treated Michael Jackson Under Investigation

[Carol25]

At Least Nine Doctors Who Treated Michael Jackson Under Investigation

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,532821,00.html?test=latestnews (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,532821,00.html?test=latestnews)

[Carol25]

They said, "at least"...probably more to come.

[RootBeer]

Hi everyone. Let's play nice today. :thumbup:

[Carol25]

Is true Dr. Klein is the father of the two older children?

I personally don't think so. Did they take his DNA?

[ellegna]

Michael Jackson's death has the FDA considering labeling Propofol a 'controlled substance'


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/michael_jackson/2009/07/16/2009-07-16_jackos_death_spurs_closer_look_at_drug.html#ixz z0LQfczPCX

A drug that is only administered in hospitals/clinics under controlled monitoring should have been labeled long ago :angry:

[RootBeer]

Is true Dr. Klein is the father of the two older children?

I thought that is what I heard on The Today Show, but not 100% sure.

[Firehead11]

Michael Jackson's death has the FDA considering labeling Propofol a 'controlled substance'


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/michael_jackson/2009/07/16/2009-07-16_jackos_death_spurs_closer_look_at_drug.html#ixz z0LQfczPCX

A drug that is only administered in hospitals/clinics under controlled monitoring should have been labeled long ago :angry:


I agree. They now think it should be controlled? If this is the drug that he died from, I see a very big lawsuit against the drug company happening and a negligent homicide charge against at least one doctor.

[RootBeer]

Posted Jul 16th 2009 1:35AM by TMZ Staff

We've learned Joe Jackson's business partner for his new record label is a convicted felon.


http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/16/joe-jackson-michael-jackson-record-marshall-thompson/

[retiredcop]

Is this the daily thread?

[incidentally]

I thought this thread was about the doctors being indicted, not who the biological parents of the children are or Joe Jackson.

[RootBeer]

Those kids to me look 100% caucasian. I've never heard anyone say otherwise. Didn't Debbie Rowe amit they were not MJs children? I'd take her word on the subject since she carried them.

It was just reported on the news and I believe this is important to discuss. If you think it should be private you can not join in said discussion. MOO

I agree with you, bio-parents is a subject that is open for discussion. I do not think MJ's two oldest kids are at all AA. I do not see any of those features, except for Prince's brown eyes. jmo

[Firehead11]

Why blame the drug company? It is not their fault MJ had the means to get this drug and pay doctors to administor it. :confused:

Are you suggesting that the drug company did not know their drug was that dangerous?

And I didn't lay any blame. I think there will be a lawsuit filed against the drug company. Along with an arrest. Are you saying that a doctor should not be charged because Jackson had the "means" to get a doctor and the drug?

[RootBeer]

Is anyone familiar with this publication? I looked at Oprah's site and her schedule for the TV show does not go beyond 7/17. I did send an email to see if this can be confirmed and will provide an update should I get a response:

EXCLUSIVE: Michael Jackson's Kids Fathered by Jordan Chandler
Tuesday, 14 July 2009 20:36

In an exclusive interview scheduled to be aired on Oprah show on July 30th, former accuser in a Michael Jackson molestation trial, Jordan Chandler, confirmed that he fathered two of Michael Jackson's children - Prince Michael Jackson I and Paris Michael Katherine Jackson.

http://www.palluxo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=651:exclusive-michael-jacksons-kids-fathered-by-jordan-chandler&catid=4:news&Itemid=104


I did not see that coming......

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Are you suggesting that the drug company did not know their drug was that dangerous?

And I didn't lay any blame. I think there will be a lawsuit filed against the drug company. Along with an arrest. Are you saying that a doctor should not be charged because Jackson had the "means" to get a doctor and the drug?


It seems that you havent read the Monograph of this drug, although I have posted it many times ..but this drug company gives very clear instructions on it's uses, its dangers, it is quite clear to any professional, the danger inherently with the use of this drug Diprivan or it's generic form Profolo

Here's a link to refresh your memory:
http://www.rxlist.com/diprivan-drug.htm

Anyway, no drug company can be held responsibile for misuse, or when used inappropriately..ala~~malpractice by medical persons, not if the victim abuses said drug. If that be the case, all drug companies would be sued whenever someone dies from it..regardless of how that person used it..

I did hear last night that the lot numbers included in the Drug company warning letter and requesting HC Professionals to check their stock regarding possible tainting, were not the same lot that the retrieved vials of profolo from Jacksons home...It was on LKL, last night I believe I heard that..since I dont have the link..take it as hearsay at this point.

LMS

[RootBeer]

If I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath. imo

You got that right. :wink:

[retiredcop]

I have to be honest. This is the first time I have ever heard of an addict hiring a doctor to come to the house and administer an anesthetic. It boggles the mind.

in my opinion only of course

[RootBeer]

Thought it was only his brain? What other organs would they be?

This was so cool. Last night a lady who is going to mortuary school called in to Nancy Grace's show and explained how certain organs are removed and never put back in the body because of leakage problems. These organs (brain and other organs tested) are placed in a bag and are not normally returned to the body.

[retiredcop]

This was so cool. Last night a lady who is going to mortuary school called in to Nancy Grace's show and explained how certain organs are removed and never put back in the body because of leakage problems. These organs (brain and other organs tested) are placed in a bag and are not normally returned to the body.

Where does the bag of organs go, I wonder?

[retiredcop]

Very cool. Now it all boils down to how to best profit off his burial? MOO

i just thought of something. Can you imagine pieces of Mr Jackson's organs ending up on ebay as souvenirs?

[CANDYKISSES]

I thought this thread was about the doctors being indicted, not who the biological parents of the children are or Joe Jackson.

I thought so too Tally. That is the most current news out there right now as far as I've seen. JMO tho. :unsure:

Regarding the children, I am of the belief CA is going with the legal definition of mother and father and the biology is not coming into play unless there is something unknown going on behind the scenes. I don't consider Michael or Debbie a biological parent absent clear and concise DNA, but do recognize both as parents under CA law. JMO again.

[Firehead11]

It seems that you havent read the Monograph of this drug, although I have posted it many times ..but this drug company gives very clear instructions on it's uses, its dangers, it is quite clear to any professional, the danger inherently with the use of this drug Diprivan or it's generic form Profolo

Here's a link to refresh your memory:
http://www.rxlist.com/diprivan-drug.htm

Anyway, no drug company can be held responsibile for misuse, or when used inappropriately..ala~~malpractice by medical persons, not if the victim abuses said drug. If that be the case, all drug companies would be sued whenever someone dies from it..regardless of how that person used it..

I did hear last night that the lot numbers included in the Drug company warning letter and requesting HC Professionals to check their stock regarding possible tainting, were not the same lot that the retrieved vials of profolo from Jacksons home...It was on LKL, last night I believe I heard that..since I dont have the link..take it as hearsay at this point.

LMS

No offense Lynda but there are quite a few lawsuits involving drugs and death being filed.

I am not going to read over 10 pages of links but if you feel the need to, go ahead. Some of the drugs were misused by the doctor or patient.

[RootBeer]

They're placed in a zip lock HUGE bag and sewn back in the abdominal cavity after autopsy. The mortician disposes of it when it arrives there as biological hazardous waste.

Not sure how "cool" it is

It was cool to me that someone called in with first hand knowledge of the procedure. :thumbup:

[sofiesmom]

I did not see that coming......I didn't either. Is there a link to a clear picture of JC?

[Firehead11]

Have you finished reading your link yet?:confused:

I read it and there was description on everything that happened in Jackson's life. However the question she asked was if anyone else heard about Oprah's scheduled tv show for the date of July 30th.

As far as returning of his brain, most links I found are from gossip mags for what it is worth. Some of the news links have already removed that news item.

http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2009/07/coroner_still_testing_jacksons.php

"As soon as we are done with the brain, we'll return it," Winter said. "There is a whole series of tests that will be done."

[retiredcop]

Didn't LaToya recant her story way after the fact as well? ITA, the whole family is dysfunctional. I was at a party last night and this subect came up. Not one person in the room was sad for his death. They were like "good riddence, he's a freak". They did say "they felt for the kids".

MOO

I can't imagine anything more dysfunctional than to make a statement such as La Toya made, and simply recant it later blaming her husband.

I have said before this family is very dysfunctional, the lot of them, and I feel sorry for the children. To me that includes Janet and Rebbie.


my opinion of course

[KatieLady]

I found it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCxwvYOzl80

Must run off too.

She sure is believable in that video IMO

[Not Telling]

Michael Jackson's Posthumous Global Record Sales Reach 9 Million.

Since his death, the King of Pop has dominated charts in Europe and Australia, as well as the U.S.


http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1616358/20090716/jackson_michael.jhtml

[Firehead11]

Thank you for the video. Powerful words.

[Brattnt]

Jackson’s kids want to live with sister Janet

According to a new report, the kids in question, Prince Michael, 12, and Paris-Michael Katherine, 11, along with their 7-year-old brother Prince Michael II (aka Blanket), have made their own decision. They want their late father's sister, Janet Jackson, to raise them.

“Janet has completely bonded with those children in the last two weeks,” a family friend revealed to OK! magazine. “She has been their rock. It’s clear to everyone that they are looking to her for comfort and guidance.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31926909/ns/entertainment-gossip/

[retiredcop]

Michael Jackson's Posthumous Global Record Sales Reach 9 Million.

Since his death, the King of Pop has dominated charts in Europe and Australia, as well as the U.S.


http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1616358/20090716/jackson_michael.jhtml


I think maybe this will drop off once the media stops reporting his death, and it if forgotten, to a large extent, by the public.

my opinion of course

[Brattnt]

More gossip? Just hope this is true:

“Janet is not only willing to raise those children, she is also the only relative who knows how to protect them,” the insider tells OK!. “Janet knows the value of a private life and knows how to keep her personal life out of the news. She is determined to do that for Michael’s children. She is saying that he would want no less for them, pointing out how far he went to shelter them.”

http://www.okmagazine.com/2009/07/cover-story-michael-jacksons-kids-want-to-stay-with-janet/#more-341991


GMTA Athena!...lol...I just posted a similar article...I hope it's true as well...

MOO

[retiredcop]

GMTA Athena!...lol...I just posted a similar article...I hope it's true as well...

MOO

I wonder if she will file in court for custody. I believe that would have to be her first move. Since the will didn't include her for custody, I would also think both Katherine and Ms Rowe would have to give up any custody claims. Diana Ross also.

in my opinion only

[mrsmcgoo]

GMTA Athena!...lol...I just posted a similar article...I hope it's true as well...

MOO

I hope this is true also! :thumbsup:

[Brattnt]

I wonder if she will file in court for custody. I believe that would have to be her first move. Since the will didn't include her for custody, I would also think both Katherine and Ms Rowe would have to give up any custody claims. Diana Ross also.

in my opinion only

I wonder about that too...My heart just hurts for the kids...:crying:

MOO

[Brattnt]

I hope this is true also! :thumbsup:

Good mornin MrsM!..Always nice to see you my friend!....Just watching them with Janet at the Memorial, you can see how much she loves those kids...

MOO

[vonna]

Didn't LaToya recant her story way after the fact as well? ITA, the whole family is dysfunctional. I was at a party last night and this subect came up. Not one person in the room was sad for his death. They were like "good riddence, he's a freak". They did say "they felt for the kids".

MOO

I'd bet the majority of rational people feel the same way.

[Unperson1984]

Does anyone know why Katherine Jackson is raising so many of her grandchildren? Other than the twin who died young, isn't MJ her only deceased child?

[lilismom]

Good mornin MrsM!..Always nice to see you my friend!....Just watching them with Janet at the Memorial, you can see how much she loves those kids...

MOO

Good afternoon everyone! Boss is out again. SHHHHHHH!

If it was me with those kids I would be holding them close and trying to comfort them as well, if they let me. KWIM? I wonder how much time these kids actually spent with the Jacksons? Maybe they just gravitate to Janet because she's the youngest of the girls? Not that I don't think Janet would do right by them but will Katherine allow it?

This gets more and more complicated every day. Meanwhile, is Michael still NOT buried?

IMO,
Lilismom

[retiredcop]

I wonder about that too...My heart just hurts for the kids...:crying:

MOO

I feel the same as you for the children. I certainly cringe at the idea of Joe Jackson being anywhere near them.

I just don't feel it will be near as easy as Janet Jackson saying she is willing to take the children and the children wanting to go to her.

I feel Ms Rowe's interest in the children is mainly to keep them from Joe Jackson and she may feel with Katherine there is a change of that not happening. She may feel differently with Janet as long as her original agreement with Mr Jackson continues to be carried out in regard to her payments.

Unfortunately, I think with Joe Jackson's influence, Katherine will fight Janet for custody.

in my opinion only

[VC2]

I hope this is true also! :thumbsup:

I do too! For a couple of reasons, the obvious if the kids want to be with her and she wants to be with them but also she is ideal for kids who may want to do things in entertainment or fashion design or produce movies (as paris and prince have said iirc) later on. She knows how to have a life in that sphere withou turning it into a spectacle and she also is the one who will stand up to Joe imo.

now if its possible is another thing

IMO

eta if debbie drops custody battle and KJ wins it, there might not be a need to file for janet. KJ as legal guardian could just give permission for them to live with Janet. Happens every day where parents send the kids to live with grandparents or relatives etc. and as legal guardian kj is in lieu of parent.

imo

[mrsmcgoo]

Good mornin MrsM!..Always nice to see you my friend!....Just watching them with Janet at the Memorial, you can see how much she loves those kids...

MOO

Always good to see you also....:wub:

At the Memorial, it seemed so natural for her to be comforting the children. I think she understands more than anyone the need to protect the children, plus she is financially secure herself, so she wouldn't need to have an income from the Estate.

I hope that Joe Jackson is as far away from the children as physically possible. I just can't believe how he can make the statements he has, and expect to be seen as anything but an opportunist. :mad:

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Good news for the creditors. :thumbsup:

Oh it is great news for everyone not just the creditors. This estate is a gold mine. The creditors will long be paid off and look at the chunk of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ flowing in for the children.

Wow!

imo

[GentleBreeze]

I have no doubt that MJ's estate will be able to settle with all of the creditors and the children will do well also.

Yes, the financial analysts are saying that the Beatles catalog alone is worth up to two BILLION:ohmy: and that is in a Trust isn't it to go to the children?

He is making millions daily and he was already receiving 85 million yearly.

This estate is going to be humongous even after the bill collectors are compensated.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

The will really doesn't have anything to do with custody. True -- Janet would have to file a motion for custody -- but the court will award custody based on the best interests of the children. I also believe the judge will listen to what the children have to say. These children are not babies -- at least the older two. I really hope she does. First of all she can offer a lifestyle that the children pretty much are accustomed to already. She also has a good income and perhaps can even hire Grace to retain her as the childrens' nanny. Janet also leads a pretty private life; has her own security guards and will be able to protect the children from public scrutiny and Janet is also still young. JMHO

Hi ya Bratt - good to c ya !!! :seeya:

I would be delighted if Janet was given custody of the children but I think the Judge is going to be hard pressed to deviate from MJs wishes and intents in his Will. I just don't see how they can prejudice KJ due to her age unless they require her to have a medical examine and finds she has many health problems leaving her unable to care for the children. If KJ is given a clean bill of health I do think the Judge will factor that in on their decision.

I really have gotten where I don't place any legitimacy on anything we read in articles or on tv that was supposedly said by someone.

Not that I don't want it to be true because I think Janet and Grace would do a terrific job.

imo

[lilismom]

I would be delighted if Janet was given custody of the children but I think the Judge is going to be hard pressed to deviate from MJs wishes and intents in his Will. I just don't see how they can prejudice KJ due to her age unless they require her to have a medical examine and finds she has many health problems leaving her unable to care for the children. If KJ is given a clean bill of health I do think the Judge will factor that in on their decision.

I really have gotten where I don't place any legitimacy on anything we read in articles or on tv that was supposedly said by someone.

Not that I don't want it to be true because I think Janet and Grace would do a terrific job.

imo



I kind of agree with this. If we're going to stand on Michael's Will to argue against Debbie Rowe, don't the same rules apply? Yes, Janet is family, but under the law, so is Debbie Rowe.

IMO,
Lilismom

[GentleBreeze]

Good afternoon everyone! Boss is out again. SHHHHHHH!

If it was me with those kids I would be holding them close and trying to comfort them as well, if they let me. KWIM? I wonder how much time these kids actually spent with the Jacksons? Maybe they just gravitate to Janet because she's the youngest of the girls? Not that I don't think Janet would do right by them but will Katherine allow it?

This gets more and more complicated every day. Meanwhile, is Michael still NOT buried?

IMO,
Lilismom


Janet came to Neverland and it was obvious that she and MJ were very close so the children know her really well and likes that she reminds them of their father imo.

No he is not buried yet. I heard on HLN yesterday about all sorts of people are wanting to steal his body. I don't know if the Jacksons are getting upsetting calls or not but I think they are very worried about where they can put him that his crypt will not be tampered with.

They said something about entombing him into a large concrete area around him. That is sad but people tried to steal Elvis' body too when he was in the mausoleum in Memphis.

imo

[flipflop]

Michael Jackson's Unreleased Song


http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/16/michael-jackson-song-unrecorded-unreleased-america/

I wish I could hear the whole thing but I like what I hear.

[Nic99]

I believe you made note that "no one was sad," "good riddence," and "freak."

MO - no that isn't rational. It's judgmental and not things the people I associate with would say.

ITA, everyone I know was shocked and saddened by the news. I would say the above behaviour was very irrational and quite cruel tbh...

[♫Rock*Star♫]

Get back on topic and do not discuss his organs in a "joke" manner. That is uncalled for and does not belong in this thread.

Thanks.

Its unfortunate 'adults' need guidance as to what is appropriate or not appropriate. :shrug:

Again... I'll be curious to see how many doctors are caught up in the possible murder of Michael Jackson. Nine & counting.

[GentleBreeze]

We are speaking about people out in public not here. People where I live and where I travel to all say "they are sick of hearing about Michael Jackson every second on the news, he was a very sick man and he was nothing but a drug addict". That isn't rational thinking to you when that is what he was?

MOO

Actually here in my hometown people are still talking about it and I have noticed their opinions are changing. No longer is it so much about things against him but defending him now. Yesterday my hubby said that the coffee shop talk was all about MJ and when he got burned in the Pepsi commercial. So I don't think the interest is going to end anytime soon.

I have noticed the shift myself in the media call ins in the last couple of days.

If no one was interested then the media wouldn't have it on. They know anything good or bad to do with MJ boosts their ratings and it sells the tabloids in the millions weekly. I would gather to guess that all shows coivering MJ and tabloids their profit margins are way up since the passing of MJ.

imo

[mariah79]

Are a new moderator? I don't see moderator under your nic.

It is there I can see it. You might want to look again.

[VC2]

Get back on topic and do not discuss his organs in a "joke" manner. That is uncalled for and does not belong in this thread.

Thank you.

[mariah79]

I find people have become more compassionate towards MJ as his ailments are confirmed. My house is always full of my son and daughter's friends and they know I'm following this and as soon as they walk in ask me what the latest is and we talk about it. A few of them have put dibs on my books too - and told them they will have to take a #. LOL My daughter is reading Michael Jackson Conspiracy right now.

Bolding Mine

The list of Dr.s posted here should be an eye opener for all want the truth. It shows me some the the health problems being reported where most likely true.

[ScoobyDoo]

Get back on topic and do not discuss his organs in a "joke" manner. That is uncalled for and does not belong in this thread.

I did apologize if my remark offended anyone. The topic is: "Nine Doctors under investigation" Should his organs be discussed at all on this thread, jokes or otherwise? I don't get the connection between doctors being investigated, and the disposition of internal organs.
*shrug*

[CANDYKISSES]

I find people have become more compassionate towards MJ as his ailments are confirmed. My house is always full of my son and daughter's friends and they know I'm following this and as soon as they walk in ask me what the latest is and we talk about it. A few of them have put dibs on my books too - and told them they will have to take a #. LOL My daughter is reading Michael Jackson Conspiracy right now.

I have noticed that too Athena2. I hope the doctors who are involved in using the Hollywood connections by drug enabling are held accountable. JMO

[lunchlady]

Wow, I browsed the newstand at Walgreen's today and there were so many MJ articles and photos.
There were some photos from rehearsal two days before his death. He looked so ill and thin and pale and weird. So damaged physically and mentally. What a journey from that vigorous and talented child into the strange man he was when he died.
One article blamed Liz Taylor for getting him addicted. Another blamed the burn on his head. Another blamed the environment on the road with his brothers and his famous friends.
I think addicts find addiction, from somewhere or other. The reclusiveness and self-indulgence I think are bigger factors, like Elvis. They both surrounded himself with people who would do what they wanted, and the supply of those people never ran out. I hope Britney appreciates that her dad is willing to take control and be her parent, or else she would be still on that same path.

[KatieLady]

I did apologize if my remark offended anyone. The topic is: "Nine Doctors under investigation" Should his organs be discussed at all on this thread, jokes or otherwise? I don't get the connection between doctors being investigated, and the disposition of internal organs.
*shrug*

Hey Scooby....CW made this thread a "sticky" so it really has become the daily thread for today IMO

[CANDYKISSES]

Wow, I browsed the newstand at Walgreen's today and there were so many MJ articles and photos.
There were some photos from rehearsal two days before his death. He looked so ill and thin and pale and weird. So damaged physically and mentally. What a journey from that vigorous and talented child into the strange man he was when he died.
One article blamed Liz Taylor for getting him addicted. Another blamed the burn on his head. Another blamed the environment on the road with his brothers and his famous friends.
I think addicts find addiction, from somewhere or other. The reclusiveness and self-indulgence I think are bigger factors, like Elvis. They both surrounded himself with people who would do what they wanted, and the supply of those people never ran out. I hope Britney appreciates that her dad is willing to take control and be her parent, or else she would be still on that same path.

I think the more that we see coming out supports some pretty incredible body stress and more than likely mental health issues as a result. Then add the Vitilgo and Lupus, and that's just enough to make me see why Ian predicted what he did. :sad:

He must have been living a very sad life as he tried to crawl out from the hell he was living with. Those beautiful children had to be what kept him going sans any medical intervention. JMO

[Firehead11]

I think he looked rather good, better than he had in years but that is my opinion. I do think he was making a come back after years of being mocked, slandered and ridiculed. Thank God he can't read some of the stuff on message boards anymore, but his children are old enough to. Can we keep that in mind?

[retiredcop]

The will really doesn't have anything to do with custody. True -- Janet would have to file a motion for custody -- but the court will award custody based on the best interests of the children. I also believe the judge will listen to what the children have to say. These children are not babies -- at least the older two. I really hope she does. First of all she can offer a lifestyle that the children pretty much are accustomed to already. She also has a good income and perhaps can even hire Grace to retain her as the childrens' nanny. Janet also leads a pretty private life; has her own security guards and will be able to protect the children from public scrutiny and Janet is also still young. JMHO

Hi ya Bratt - good to c ya !!! :seeya:

The best interests of the children will come first, but Mr Jackson's wishes will be considered especially it the parties, in the court's view, both equally qualify in the best interest of the children's category. I thought you would realize that and I wouldn't have to spell it out.

I'm not as sure as everyone else about Grace being so good for the children. She is only the nanny and nanny's are replaceable. Aren't the children getting a little too old for a nanny?

As far as the judge listening to the children, some do and some don't. I don't think that will weigh as heavily as some here seem to think. I believe children can be influenced too easily.

in my opinion only

[bkwits]

I think he looked rather good, better than he had in years but that is my opinion. I do think he was making a come back after years of being mocked, slandered and ridiculed. Thank God he can't read some of the stuff on message boards anymore, but his children are old enough to. Can we keep that in mind?

I hope that these young children are not given unfettered access to the the Internet. If they are permitted such access, they will see much worse and more shocking things about MJ than on this board. And cable TV is much worse, more graphic content, than the Internet in general. Also, the newspapers and magazines they might see at the supermarket. Remember how the Brown family used to go into the stores and turn the magazine covers away so that O.J. Simpson's children wouldn't see them. This is a free, yet civilized, discussion here but not for children, particularly not for those children.

IMO

[daniel green]

snipped I don't consider Michael or Debbie a biological parent absent clear and concise DNA, but do recognize both as parents under CA law. JMO again.

Hey, CK!!!!!!!!!

I agree, completely here.

[daniel green]

Jackson’s kids want to live with sister Janet

According to a new report, the kids in question, Prince Michael, 12, and Paris-Michael Katherine, 11, along with their 7-year-old brother Prince Michael II (aka Blanket), have made their own decision. They want their late father's sister, Janet Jackson, to raise them.

“Janet has completely bonded with those children in the last two weeks,” a family friend revealed to OK! magazine. “She has been their rock. It’s clear to everyone that they are looking to her for comfort and guidance.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31926909/ns/entertainment-gossip/

Bonded in two weeks, eh? :huh:

And when had she last seen the children, before MJ's death?

[retiredcop]

Hey, CK!!!!!!!!!

I agree, completely here.

If custody goes before the courts, the judge may ask for DNA, but under the law Ms Rowe is the mother.

I think it's very possible this will settle out of court unless someone else files for custody and has standing to do so.

in my opinion only of course

[retiredcop]

Bonded in two weeks, eh? :huh:

And when had she last seen the children, before MJ's death?

I don't think children can bond in two weeks and it really is unknown when she saw them last. These children are very confused right now and will cling to anyone. They are easily influenced.

in my opinion

[Firehead11]

I hope that these young children are not given unfettered access to the the Internet. If they are permitted such access, they will see much worse and more shocking things about MJ than on this board. And cable TV is much worse, more graphic content, than the Internet in general. Also, the newspapers and magazines they might see at the supermarket. Remember how the Brown family used to go into the stores and turn the magazine covers away so that O.J. Simpson's children wouldn't see them. This is a free, yet civilized, discussion here but not for children, particularly not for those children.

IMO

All I am saying is please just keep it in mind that his children are old enough to read. While some may have not liked him at all, I am sure that they loved him. I doubt that these children are standing in a grocery line reading the tabloids. I would hope that Katherine and whomever would protect them from such places.

[retiredcop]

I understand that. However, a Judge still has to approve it and the age of KJ and Ross may prove to be a factor in the Judge's decision. A nanny in this case may be appropriate considering she has been with the children since birth and may aid KJ's quest to take custody. Although DR is a bio mother the children don't know her so I would hope that a Judge takes the childrens' wishes into account and perhaps whoever gets custody allow DR to visit so the children will get to know her. Of course we have no voice in saying who gets the children but I really hope that DR is not given custody and do hope another Jackson member such as Janet or Rebbie file papers as a backup. JMO

Ross? I'm sorry, I don't know who that is.

[retiredcop]

All I am saying is please just keep it in mind that his children are old enough to read. While some may have not liked him at all, I am sure that they loved him. I doubt that these children are standing in a grocery line reading the tabloids. I would hope that Katherine and whomever would protect them from such places.

And the internet. I would think that would be the first thing they would do since it is probably available to them right in the home. I'm not sure of anything when it comes to children like you are.

in my opinion of course

[daniel green]

I don't think children can bond in two weeks and it really is unknown when she saw them last. These children are very confused right now and will cling to anyone. They are easily influenced.

in my opinion

Of course that grieving children will cling to anyone.

I see no evidence whatsoever that Janet knew the children well or had seen them in years. Or spent any amount of time with them.

[daniel green]

I have to be honest. This is the first time I have ever heard of an addict hiring a doctor to come to the house and administer an anesthetic. It boggles the mind.

in my opinion only of course

I admit to having watched next to nothing about this news coverage, but did watch an interview with Dr Drew Pinsky in which he said HE had never heard of such a thing, either. Of anyone actually using that drug outside a hospital/surgery setting. And he's an addiction specialist and very experienced with celebrities who abuse drugs. :ohmy:

[ish]

I think he looked rather good, better than he had in years but that is my opinion. I do think he was making a come back after years of being mocked, slandered and ridiculed. Thank God he can't read some of the stuff on message boards anymore, but his children are old enough to. Can we keep that in mind?

It's hard to determine just what shape he was in. I guess the autopsy will give us more information. One group of his people say he was in good shape another says frail and sickly. Dr Klein said he was in his office 3 days earlier and was in good shape. Dr Murray's lawyer said Mr Murray performed CPR on the bed with one hand supporting his back because he was so "frail". I find it hard imagine CPR being very effective that way. I've heard there are concerns about breaking someones' ribs during CPR, but read that it is better to break a rib or two than not being forceful enough to get the blood flowing. Hopefully the autopsy will give us a clearer picture of just what state he was in.

[daniel green]

Hey daniel -

The last time they all got together was in May 2009 and you figure throughout the trial they were in and out of Neverland in 2004-2005. From what I can gather reading what is out here; they have certainly spent more time with the Jacksons than their bio mother. JMO

snipped.

Hey, Athena! Good to see you.

Why did they get together in May 09 and for how long?

Is there any actual evidence that Janet spent any time with the children in 04-05 during the trial? Didn't she arrive at the trial separetely, not staying with MJ, right?

No doubt they have spent more time with her than with DR, who has spent zero time with them.

[retiredcop]

Diana Ross was named as backup to Katherine Jackson in MJ's will.

Oh my, sorry.

[ish]

All I am saying is please just keep it in mind that his children are old enough to read. While some may have not liked him at all, I am sure that they loved him. I doubt that these children are standing in a grocery line reading the tabloids. I would hope that Katherine and whomever would protect them from such places.

I'm sure those kids are hearing plenty while living with the Jacksons. Between the cousins, aunts, uncles, girlfriends/boyfriends of family, hangers on and hired help they are getting an earful. They probably have heard more than we have.

[GentleBreeze]

I think he looked rather good, better than he had in years but that is my opinion. I do think he was making a come back after years of being mocked, slandered and ridiculed. Thank God he can't read some of the stuff on message boards anymore, but his children are old enough to. Can we keep that in mind?

I thought he did too. Of course you can bet that all the tabloids will make him look as sickly as they can. They are not going to stop what has made them billions over the years when it comes to their favorite cash cow.

imo

[daniel green]

I find people have become more compassionate towards MJ as his ailments are confirmed. snipped.

I am not sure it's about compassion, Athena.

Even advanced lupus would not call for the kinds or amounts of opiates and barbituates he was taking. Never mind the anesthesia drug.

It is quite evident that he was addicted to drugs, no matter what ailment he may have had.

I have known people who were were severely burned over 50% of their bodies and my best friend was diagnosed with lupus 25+ yrs ago, and never in their wildest dreams would they think of taking these kinds of meds.

Addiction itself is, as we all know, a disease and certainly deserves our compassion and understanding, of course.

[retiredcop]

Hey, Athena! Good to see you.

Why did they get together in May 09 and for how long?

Is there any actual evidence that Janet spent any time with the children in 04-05 during the trial? Didn't she arrive at the trial separetely, not staying with MJ, right?

No doubt they have spent more time with her than with DR, who has spent zero time with them.

As I have read here previously, Ms Rowe is known to the children as Miss Debbie so she must have spent some time with them. Maybe as much time as Janet for all we know which probably isn't much for either of them.

in my opinion only

[daniel green]

I'm honestly not sure who stayed with MJ at Neverland during the trial but I would be surprised if the family were not in and out of there. snipped.

I would be surprised to hear that anyone stayed at Neverland during the trial. The family all arrived seperately and didn't know when MJ would arrive or what had happened overnight or over the weekend during the trial.

I agree, that it is not who has spent the most time with them re custody, but I disagree completely that there is any evidence that the children spent much time, if any, with the Jacksons, during their lives.

[daniel green]

snipped Maybe as much time as Janet for all we know which probably isn't much for either of them.

in my opinion only

I agree with that. Janet has spent time with the children since their father's death. But there is no evidence that she spent any if much time with them at all before.

[GentleBreeze]

The best interests of the children will come first, but Mr Jackson's wishes will be considered especially it the parties, in the court's view, both equally qualify in the best interest of the children's category. I thought you would realize that and I wouldn't have to spell it out.

I'm not as sure as everyone else about Grace being so good for the children. She is only the nanny and nanny's are replaceable. Aren't the children getting a little too old for a nanny?

As far as the judge listening to the children, some do and some don't. I don't think that will weigh as heavily as some here seem to think. I believe children can be influenced too easily.

in my opinion only

I dont think she is just any nanny. She has been with them since birth.

They have always called her their "mom." Everyone needs a mom figure in their lives and a grandmother too, imo.

imo

[daniel green]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-07-16/jackson-docs-drug-dealing-past/

[BorderCollieMom]

Is anyone familiar with this publication? I looked at Oprah's site and her schedule for the TV show does not go beyond 7/17. I did send an email to see if this can be confirmed and will provide an update should I get a response:

EXCLUSIVE: Michael Jackson's Kids Fathered by Jordan Chandler
Tuesday, 14 July 2009 20:36

In an exclusive interview scheduled to be aired on Oprah show on July 30th, former accuser in a Michael Jackson molestation trial, Jordan Chandler, confirmed that he fathered two of Michael Jackson's children - Prince Michael Jackson I and Paris Michael Katherine Jackson.

http://www.palluxo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=651:exclusive-michael-jacksons-kids-fathered-by-jordan-chandler&catid=4:news&Itemid=104

:huh::scared:

[retiredcop]

Reading that same documentation it appears she has not seen the children since her divorce settlement in 1999-2000.

That is probably true and I think that was due to Mr Jackson wishes. I also believe Mr Jackson didn't care for many of his family members around. Didn't Jermaine, in his interview with LKL, say something about some of his family members had never been to Neverland? I really don't think his family was ever invited there.

in my opinion only

[ish]

This is why whoever the Dr is - is going to be in trouble. MJ could have demanded whatever he wanted to but there is absolutely not one Dr who should have administered this drug. Doctors in the hospitals don't usually administer this drug. Just anaesthesiologists and trained nurses who work in surgical settings.

You are correct, however when someone has the money MJ had and the "star power", they can always find someone to do their bidding. Money talks, there are a lot of people out there with sufficient medical knowledge and connections who have need of or desire for that money and will cross whatever line has to be crossed to get it. MJ knew that, he told the Nurse "I will pay them anything, I must have that drug" He didn't need it. He wanted it. There is a big difference between need and want. He was willing to pay that difference. He had been thru rehab before, he could have done it again perhaps this time successfully. He CHOSE not to, he shares the blame at least equally with the Doctor.

[daniel green]

snipped
Honestly -- my issue is Joe Jackson but I have to admit in that interview on ABC the other night what he said was not what has been reported. He actually wasn't that bad and made no mention of the fact that he wanted to put the children in show business. Just said that he heard Blanket can dance (had not seen it himself) and said he heard Paris would like to sing which was a far cry on what I have read in the media. JMHO

Oh, gosh, Athena, I thought he was just awful in that interview as in the others he gave. Mentioning the children in that fashion as if he were already thinking about getting them into the biz. I was utterly shocked and disgusted.

[ish]

I dont think she is just any nanny. She has been with them since birth.

They have always called her their "mom." Everyone needs a mom figure in their lives and a grandmother too, imo.

imo

Interesting then, that Michael fired or allowed his handlers to fire her. To disrupt his childrens lives so greatly, I hope he had excellent reasons.

[retiredcop]

I dont think she is just any nanny. She has been with them since birth.

They have always called her their "mom." Everyone needs a mom figure in their lives and a grandmother too, imo.

imo

That is very sad. Maybe if Ms Rowe gets visiting rights, they will have a real mom in their lives for the first time.

in my opinion only

[Details]

Bonded in two weeks, eh? :huh:

And when had she last seen the children, before MJ's death?Does it matter? MJ had some serious dysfunction going on - there are more than enough reports of him pushing people away for years for questioning his drug use - when she last saw them is not the best measure of how good she would be for them.

As I see it - she's family. She's got enough money to raise and protect them from publicity. She's not married to anyone abusive that I've heard about. And she's younger than the other options being given, other than Rowe. So far, she looks like the best choice to me, and if the kids like her, then why not?

[daniel green]

That is probably true and I think that was due to Mr Jackson wishes. I also believe Mr Jackson didn't care for many of his family members around. Didn't Jermaine, in his interview with LKL, say something about some of his family members had never been to Neverland? I really don't think his family was ever invited there.

in my opinion only

I agree. MJ really isolated himself and his children and other than during the trial (when he saw them in court) he never spent much time with his parents or family after he set out on his own. I know I heard Jermaine say that his kids had not met MJ.

[retiredcop]

Interesting then, that Michael fired or allowed his handlers to fire her. To disrupt his childrens lives so greatly, I hope he had excellent reasons.

I think it's possible the children didn't even look at her as anything other than a nanny and Mr Jackson knew that. Maybe she was pushing herself on the children too much as a mom when she wasn't, and Mr Jackson ended that.

I also think it is possible he didn't care for the children calling her mom.

in my opinion only

[GentleBreeze]

Interesting then, that Michael fired or allowed his handlers to fire her. To disrupt his childrens lives so greatly, I hope he had excellent reasons.

Yes that is true. MJ did have those around him that did not encourage him to do the right thing. I think they wanted to isolate him and felt uncomfortable with Grace being so close to both MJ and the kids.

But from what I have read Grace is right back now givimg them love and support. I am sure they are tickled.

imo

[daniel green]

When was the nanny fired, pls?

TIA!

[legalmania]

I understand that. However, a Judge still has to approve it and the age of KJ and Ross may prove to be a factor in the Judge's decision. A nanny in this case may be appropriate considering she has been with the children since birth and may aid KJ's quest to take custody. Although DR is a bio mother the children don't know her so I would hope that a Judge takes the childrens' wishes into account and perhaps whoever gets custody allow DR to visit so the children will get to know her. Of course we have no voice in saying who gets the children but I really hope that DR is not given custody and do hope another Jackson member such as Janet or Rebbie file papers as a backup. JMO

DR flat out waived custody to the children, when asked how's the baby she would reply, father and baby are fine. She went to a spa, she didn't feed, change diapers, or hold them. If DR gets custody she might as well get a cardboard cutout of herself and hire a nanny, because she has made it clear in the past she did not want the children. The kids are old enough that the judge can take their testimony into consideration.

[GentleBreeze]

That is very sad. Maybe if Ms Rowe gets visiting rights, they will have a real mom in their lives for the first time.

in my opinion only

So much time has past. They really don't even know DR. Being the "real" mom means nothing. It is the nurturing and love that a woman has in her heart to put her children first that makes them a good mother, not what blood flows through their veins. DR imo has and would fail miserably.

imo

[BorderCollieMom]

So this is your little sneaky way of bringing it onto the board by quoting from the article which has nothing to do with my question? Please read MY POST and note what I question. The article happens to go into his background but that is NOT what I highlighted: :angry:


FWIW Athena2 , I knew exactly what you saying/posting. I think the other poster is stuck in 93.

[vonna]

I think the more that we see coming out supports some pretty incredible body stress and more than likely mental health issues as a result. Then add the Vitilgo and Lupus, and that's just enough to make me see why Ian predicted what he did. :sad:

He must have been living a very sad life as he tried to crawl out from the hell he was living with. Those beautiful children had to be what kept him going sans any medical intervention. JMO

It seems MJ is achieving in death what he never could have attained in life - veritable sainthood!

[retiredcop]

Yes that is true. MJ did have those around him that did not encourage him to do the right thing. I think they wanted to isolate him and felt uncomfortable with Grace being so close to both MJ and the kids.

But from what I have read Grace is right back now givimg them love and support. I am sure they are tickled.

imo

Didn't TMZ find some documents that showed the nanny had a crush on Mr Jackson in high school and planned on marrying him back then?

Maybe Mr Jackson finally had enough of her misplaced love for him and his children.

in my opinion of course

[retiredcop]

So much time has past. They really don't even know DR. Being the "real" mom means nothing. It is the nurturing and love that a woman has in her heart to put her children first that makes them a good mother, not what blood flows through their veins. DR imo has and would fail miserably.

imo

Oh, I can't see where she has failed. She has never had a real chance. Mr Jackson didn't want her around I'm sure. Perhaps she deserves a chance now. She is their real mother. It's never too late.

in my own opinion

[ish]

I think it's possible the children didn't even look at her as anything other than a nanny and Mr Jackson knew that. Maybe she was pushing herself on the children too much as a mom when she wasn't, and Mr Jackson ended that.

I also think it is possible he didn't care for the children calling her mom.

in my opinion only

Very possible, but that is the danger of having a long term employee caring for your children, emotions get in the mix and boundaries get blurred. I'm sure there was affection at least on both sides.

[GentleBreeze]

Didn't TMZ find some documents that showed the nanny had a crush on Mr Jackson in high school and planned on marrying him back then?

Maybe Mr Jackson finally had enough of her misplaced love for him and his children.

in my opinion of course

I have no idea.

imo

[daniel green]

I found the most shocking part when he blamed KJ for the majority of "spankings" in the family and he never abused any of them. That and he had no regrets!

I thought that was just horrible.

[legalmania]

I agree. MJ really isolated himself and his children and other than during the trial (when he saw them in court) he never spent much time with his parents or family after he set out on his own. I know I heard Jermaine say that his kids had not met MJ.

His mother came everyday for the trial, there was only six seats available for the Jacksons so they had to split up who would go, but mom always had a seat.

[GentleBreeze]

Oh, I can't see where she has failed. She has never had a real chance. Mr Jackson didn't want her around I'm sure. Perhaps she deserves a chance now. She is their real mother.

in my own opinion

She may deserve to have visitation rights but she sure doesn't deserve to have full custody of them and imo she will not get it.

No Judge is going to separate these three children or place Blanket with a woman he doesn't even know and he isn't kin to.....

[retiredcop]

When was the nanny fired, pls?

TIA!

I believe it has already been a couple of years, but I'm not sure. Too much time has passed for a nanny to become "mom" again.

my opinion only

[CANDYKISSES]

It seems MJ is achieving in death what he never could have attained in life - veritable sainthood!

Oh, I must have missed that reference to him achieving sainthood. Do you have a link? :smile:

HEY DANIEL, I think Grace was terminated in December 08 IIRC. :wub:

[ish]

Does it matter? MJ had some serious dysfunction going on - there are more than enough reports of him pushing people away for years for questioning his drug use - when she last saw them is not the best measure of how good she would be for them.

As I see it - she's family. She's got enough money to raise and protect them from publicity. She's not married to anyone abusive that I've heard about. And she's younger than the other options being given, other than Rowe. So far, she looks like the best choice to me, and if the kids like her, then why not?

The only obstacle maybe that Janet doesn't want to take on 3 children, she has never had any of her own. She may not want to be responsible and it is a huge responsibility. She is a star in her own right and may not want to sacrifice the years she has left in the limelight to be a parent to someone else's children. If she and Michael were that close, I would think he would have chosen her over Diana Ross. IMO

[GentleBreeze]

--------------

sorry but i still question the vitilgo. jmo

Im shocked!:lol:

j/k

[CANDYKISSES]

I thought that was just horrible.

Yes, and not just once either. TWICE. When I saw him revisiting it on ABC I was sick to think of the lengths he would go in an effort to deny any responsibility. JMO:sad:

[CANDYKISSES]

--------------

sorry but i still question the vitilgo. jmo

With all due respect, What makes you question that diagnosis Bubbles?

[retiredcop]

She may deserve to have visitation rights but she sure doesn't deserve to have full custody of them and imo she will not get it.

No Judge is going to separate these three children or place Blanket with a woman he doesn't even know and he isn't kin to.....

I don't think she wants full custody. She sure wants to keep Joe Jackson away from them and I respect her for that.

in my opinion only

[ish]

She may deserve to have visitation rights but she sure doesn't deserve to have full custody of them and imo she will not get it.

No Judge is going to separate these three children or place Blanket with a woman he doesn't even know and he isn't kin to.....

Didn't Bob Geldof take custody of Paula Yates daughter by Michael Hutchence after they both died? He wanted her to be raised with her half sisters (his daughters by Yates) I believe he got custody over Michael Hutchences parents. (I know this was in England, but I think best interests of the children is the standard there also). Debbie Rowe was rumored to have offered to take Blanket also, so that the three would remain together. Obviously we have no idea what Rowe will ask the court to do at this stage.

[retiredcop]

MJ did not fire her. His handlers fired her as per Raymone Bain on Geraldo at Large. He does not provide transcripts so no link. Raymone Bain also said she was fired by his handlers as well.

Why does everyone believe Mr Jackson did not approve the firing? Maybe he just didn't want to do it himself. I really don't think it would have been done if he didn't know about it. They were HIS children and this was their nanny.

in my opinion only

[GentleBreeze]

I don't think she wants full custody. She sure wants to keep Joe Jackson away from them and I respect her for that.

in my opinion only

Of course. I think DR did and still does love MJ very much. She sure wouldn't want MJs children to be subjected to what he went through as a child.

I am sure she knows the intricate details on the abuses he suffered at the hands of his father. She had known MJ for 30 years.

imo

[ish]

That and his debt will finially be paid! imo

Bly, clearly a two-fer!! I'm sure there will be several more lawsuits filed against the estate, as time goes by. Especially if music sales continue at this rate.

[VC2]

I admit to having watched next to nothing about this news coverage, but did watch an interview with Dr Drew Pinsky in which he said HE had never heard of such a thing, either. Of anyone actually using that drug outside a hospital/surgery setting. And he's an addiction specialist and very experienced with celebrities who abuse drugs. :ohmy:

i do not disagree that MJ had an addiction problem with pain killers but i honestly don't think that the diprivan was an "addiction".

It seems to me that in HIS mind, it put him to sleep safely and he woke up without any grogginess etc. in all the surgeries he had. So in HIS mind it was a good way to deal with his insomnia, somethign no one else did but he had the money to have a doctor monitor him overnight etc. plus there was a nutbar MD ready to say its possible to do at home safely and happy to administer it

I also haven't heard any time of his using anaesthesia (having a doctor in house the whole time) except during tours or when getting ready for tours.

in other words i think it was terrible judgment and really stupid but imo it was separate from his addiction problem and just a crazy crazy way to deal with his insomnia when he had to be in top form for rehearsals/touring. If he wanted to get high he had lots of choices and diprivan was not one of them in any realistic sense. all it did was "put him to sleep". Now we know that he didn't get rem sleep from it but i seriously doubt that MJ knew or believed that since he had been given and woken up fine from it many a time in surgeries

IMO

[CANDYKISSES]

---------------

money talks and bulls*** walks. jmo

So you think it's all been construed to cover his use of pharmaceuticals? :w00t:

Wow, maybe you should list that one on the CONSPIRACY THEORIES thread. :thumbup: JMO

[ish]

excuses excuses..IMO She was fired with the full knowledge of MJ and by MJ....or by one of his flunkies at his direction.

Another thing flunkies are good for... doing the dirty work.:laugh:

[GentleBreeze]

Didn't Bob Geldof take custody of Paula Yates daughter by Michael Hutchence after they both died? He wanted her to be raised with her half sisters (his daughters by Yates) I believe he got custody over Michael Hutchences parents. (I know this was in England, but I think best interests of the children is the standard there also). Debbie Rowe was rumored to have offered to take Blanket also, so that the three would remain together. Obviously we have no idea what Rowe will ask the court to do at this stage.

I am sorry, I don't know that case.

Well I don't think she is going to ask for custody of any of the kids. In fact this may be settled out of court and that would certainly be best for the children.

imo

[daniel green]

snipped

HEY DANIEL, I think Grace was terminated in December 08 IIRC. :wub:

Thx, CK!!!!!!!!!! Good to see you, as always!

[retiredcop]

So you think it's all been construed to cover his use of pharmaceuticals? :w00t:

Wow, maybe you should list that one on the CONSPIRACY THEORIES thread. :thumbup: JMO

The pictures of his legs looked more like poor blood circulation to me.
My mother's legs looked like that when she had poor blood circulation in old age. Also that huge sore. That can come from poor blood circulation. Maybe from shooting up in the veins in his legs.

of course this is my opinion only

[VC2]

I believe it has already been a couple of years, but I'm not sure. Too much time has passed for a nanny to become "mom" again.

my opinion only

hardly, it was nov or dec of 08. 6 months is to long? Wonder what you think when there is a divorce and one parent moves out of state, haivng visiting rights for 2 months in summer only?

[retiredcop]

hardly, it was nov or dec of 08. 6 months is to long? Wonder what you think when there is a divorce and one parent moves out of state, haivng visiting rights for 2 months in summer only?

Huh? I was just trying to answer Mr Green's question. No one seemed to want to do so until I said something. As far as visiting rights, what has that got to do with it?

my opinion only

[GentleBreeze]

hardly, it was nov or dec of 08. 6 months is to long? Wonder what you think when there is a divorce and one parent moves out of state, haivng visiting rights for 2 months in summer only?

The first three years of a child's life is when they learn to bond. Grace has been that "mom" to them since birth. DR however is only "Miss Debbie" and was not there in the formative years of the children's life. She was MIA the way she wanted it.

imo

[retiredcop]

hardly, it was nov or dec of 08. 6 months is to long? Wonder what you think when there is a divorce and one parent moves out of state, haivng visiting rights for 2 months in summer only?

Huh? I was just trying to answer Mr Green's question. No one seemed to want to do so until I said something. As far as visiting rights, what has that got to do with it?

Calm down, I did say I didn't know for sure.

my opinion only

[retiredcop]

The first three years of a child's life is when they learn to bond. Grace has been that "mom" to them since birth. DR however is only "Miss Debbie" and was not there in the formative years of the children's life. She was MIA the way she wanted it.

imo

Don't you think that was the way Mr Jackson wanted it too? What about children who were adopted out a birth and find their birth mothers. Bonding occurs in many cases.

my opinion only

[GentleBreeze]

Don't you think that was the way Mr Jackson wanted it too?

They both seemed to prefer it that way.

She has always said these are Michael's children and not hers.

imo

[retiredcop]

They both seemed to prefer it that way.

She has always said these are Michael's children and not hers.

imo

Yes, I think that is the way Mr Jackson wanted it much more than Ms Rowe. Did she say that to protect Mr Jackson from letting the press know Mr Jackson did not want to let the kids know their mother? She always protected him.

my opinion only

[retiredcop]

This is a partial transcript from the hearing she had when she tried to give up her parental rights on 10/17/01. Her rights were reinstated on appeal after the trial because the lower court erred:

Q. When is the last time you saw the children?
A. I think it was either August or October of last year when I gave up my visitation rights.

Q. Have you communicated with either of the children --
A. No.

Q. Over the past year?
A. Not at all.

Q. Do you wish to communicate with the children?
A. No.

Q. Do you ever have the desire to call the children over the telephone?
A. No.

Q. Do you have a desire to send any cards or letters to the children?
A. No.

Q. Do you want the court to terminate your parental right?
A. Yes

Q. Okay.
A. Because --

Q. That was my next question. Why?
A. Because Michael is a wonderful man, first of all, a brilliant father. And it's the best -- as their mother, it is the best interest for the children. I don't know if Judge Lachs understands this. But when I was seeing them every 45 days, it felt like an intrusion on their life and they're going to have enough intrusions as it is. I don't want to be part of it.

I'm absolutely around if ever Michael needs me, if the children need me for a liver, kidney, a hello, whatever, I will always be around for him. These are his children. I had the children for him. They wouldn't be on this planet if it wasn't for my love of him. I did it for him to become a father. Not for me to become a mother. You earn the title parent. I have done absolutely nothing to earn that title.

Q. How long have you thought about your decision?

A. Since -- I've thought about it for a year. The reason I didn't do it a year ago, everybody would have gone "UH", "Uh", "Uh", GASP, GASP, GASP. "Oh my God, have you thought this out?" So just so everybody understands, I've thought about this a lot. And this is -- this is for what's the best for the kids.

Yes, I've read that. It has been posted a lot. I don't think it proves much myself.

my opinion only

[VC2]

Jackson Doc Talks Himself Into a Corner
Posted Jul 16th 2009 2:30AM by TMZ Staff

We've learned the doctor at the center of the investigation into Michael Jackson's death is in the cross hairs of the LAPD because of his own words.

Law enforcement sources tell TMZ Dr. Conrad Murray's statements to police on the Saturday following Jackson's death contained incriminating disclosures about his involvement. Some members of law enforcement are surprised he spoke in the first place and surprised at what he volunteered.

As we reported yesterday, the LAPD is already treating Jackson's death as a homicide and there have been multiple conversations between detectives and the L.A. County District Attorney's office, although the D.A. has not opened its own formal investigation.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/16/michael-jackson-dr-conrad-murray-lapd-propofol-death/

From the link:
"And we've learned, although some of the toxicology results are not in yet, important test results already completed point to the anesthesia Propofol as the primary cause of death. Our law enforcement sources say the evidence is clear -- Propofol was the primary reason Jackson's heart stopped beating."

Well if that is the case, then imo it was not an addiction to painkillers that killed him. It was a stupid thinking that it could work as a treatment for his insomnia but more importantly a DOCTOR AGREEING and administering it without the rescue equipment that is a minimum safeguard with this particular medication.

He could have taken no narcotics or opiates for months (not saying that is the case) and this medication given at home would have killed him just as easily. Peoples hearts stop beating in hospital when given it, even very healthy people if the dosage is at all titrated wrong or its not monitored closely.

If its true this is the primary cause of death then i expect to see homicide charges laid. Far more than mere negligence. At the very least anyone would expect a doctor to know what they are doing, since they are the layman. Even if you knew that it was not meant to be used outside a hospital, it makes perfect sense to me that a layman would expect that having a doctor administer it and monitor him properly would effectively be almost the same as in a hospital or a doctors surgical clinic. Sort of like, well you shouldn't drink to much but if you are going to drink you better not drive because that is dangerous. No i am not saying alcohol and diprivan are comparable, just that if you know something needs precautions that he may well have thought by being "responsible" and having a doctor take care of it then the danger was removed.

IMO

[vonna]

Im shocked!:lol:

j/k

I'm shocked that anyone would believe a concocted story about why he bleached himself white.

[legalmania]

Since this post is suppose to be about the doctors I thought I would start with the evidence code for California.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=78284312309+1+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

[VC2]

Ok...sit down...and get a hold of yourself.

I agree with you!

I wasted much time defending her and making excuses for her when the last allegations came out and she was set to testify against MJ.

IMO DR is about as warm and caring of a mother as Old Joe is a father. Both are all about the $$$$ & each will say & do whatever will bring them the most.

Well i just about fainted ! shows that we can agree on something at least lmao!

darn firefox has a fabulous add on that stops scripts from running on web pages..which means no ads here but the emoticons are also scripts so i either i turn it on when i want to use them or am to lazy..i prefer no ads so will just say im using the rolling smiley lol

IMO

eta i don't know the name of the ER doctor that galanos has on today on HLN but i have seen her before and she is excellent. She doesn't make huge assumptions, she gives facts and isn't into sensationalizing. Just as she explained about burns, recovery time, skin grafts and the pain and how some can be in a burn unit for months and not get addicted while others do over a shorter time and it has to do more with an addictive personality and what causes it. No blame, not judgements just ..sense.

Hope she is used much more and by some other shows.

IMO

[daniel green]

LOL and she could have refused a settlement too and sued for joint custody.

She sure enough could have.

In my opinion (and this is what I have done for 2 decades, work in family court) she won't get the children. And shouldn't, imo.

[VC2]

Any thoughts on this? I wish they would release the results already. Now at least we know it was not a drug overdose that caused his death:

Jackson Police Probe is 'Criminal,' D.A. Says

Posted Jul 16th 2009 5:34PM by TMZ Staff

As we reported, LAPD detectives are treating Jackson's death as a homicide and focusing on Dr. Conrad Murray. Law enforcement sources tell us there is powerful evidence showing that Dr. Murray administered Propofol to Jackson and that drug was the primary cause of his death.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/16/michael-jackson-lapd-los-angeles-county-district-attorney-death-propofol/

I did a long post on it on page 6 i th8ink :D

[Firehead11]

Any thoughts on this? I wish they would release the results already. Now at least we know it was not a drug overdose that caused his death:

Jackson Police Probe is 'Criminal,' D.A. Says

Posted Jul 16th 2009 5:34PM by TMZ Staff

As we reported, LAPD detectives are treating Jackson's death as a homicide and focusing on Dr. Conrad Murray. Law enforcement sources tell us there is powerful evidence showing that Dr. Murray administered Propofol to Jackson and that drug was the primary cause of his death.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/16/michael-jackson-lapd-los-angeles-county-district-attorney-death-propofol/

Well if you ask me, this isn't any real news but as of yesterday it had been denied that the LE were even treated this as a homicide case. So I will just sit and wait and see if this is denied also.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

--------------

sorry but i still question the vitilgo. jmo

That is one of the issues I DO NOT have any question about..I think he did have that problem..but having said that..this usually does not include an entire body skin surfaces..I havent seen one case of total body conversion..It usually starts in hands, patches on face, or feet and does spread..but never have I seen or heard of a case becoming all enclusive to any of those surfaces..there was always patches of original skin color...

Lupus..Im not sure about...Now his burns..it likely was very painful initially..but I believe he medicated himself well beyond the pain..which led to his addiction..and addiction then leads to many symptoms which then lead to more medications..and so on..Yikes , it seems MJ never reall had anyone ever say no to him abfter he became emancipated..away from his family, and no one had any influence on him. His power seems to have led him seeking things that ultimately killed him..along with the help of those who would not say NO!

LMS

[Firehead11]

Wouldn't ya love to know how much the jackson's are getting paid for these interviews????????

Personally, I wish they would all shut up and let the LE do their job and then release actual facts instead of spewing out what they want to tell us.

[legalmania]

Here are some laws about the Health and Safety code for prescriptions in California

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=78436620704+0+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

[Unperson1984]

His children did not get that screwed up emotionally because they each had a wonderful upbringing by two caring, nurturing and loving parents! IMO

I asked this question earlier but no one responded, why is Mrs Jackson raising so many of her grandchildren?

[BorderCollieMom]

Any thoughts on this? I wish they would release the results already. Now at least we know it was not a drug overdose that caused his death:

Jackson Police Probe is 'Criminal,' D.A. Says

Posted Jul 16th 2009 5:34PM by TMZ Staff

As we reported, LAPD detectives are treating Jackson's death as a homicide and focusing on Dr. Conrad Murray. Law enforcement sources tell us there is powerful evidence showing that Dr. Murray administered Propofol to Jackson and that drug was the primary cause of his death.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/16/michael-jackson-lapd-los-angeles-county-district-attorney-death-propofol/


Old Harvey talked about this last night. But earlier, I thought LE came out and said that it was NOT a homocide investigation.
I was watching TMZ , screaming at Harvey to get it right...now this.
Hmmm.

[BorderCollieMom]

That is one of the issues I DO NOT have any question about..I think he did have that problem..but having said that..this usually does not include an entire body skin surfaces..I havent seen one case of total body conversion..It usually starts in hands, patches on face, or feet and does spread..but never have I seen or heard of a case becoming all enclusive to any of those surfaces..there was always patches of original skin color...

Lupus..Im not sure about...Now his burns..it likely was very painful initially..but I believe he medicated himself well beyond the pain..which led to his addiction..and addiction then leads to many symptoms which then lead to more medications..and so on..Yikes , it seems MJ never reall had anyone ever say no to him abfter he became emancipated..away from his family, and no one had any influence on him. His power seems to have led him seeking things that ultimately killed him..along with the help of those who would not say NO!

LMS


Cant recall what doctor spoke on what show but she exaplained that he used a cream - medication that actually takes the left over pigment away...it was either be splotchy or use the cream & basically remove all pigment you have left. She said thats why he looked pastey white.

I dunno. It seemed believable to me.

[BorderCollieMom]

Lou Ferrigno said he wore white t-shirts when being trained and he did not see any needle marks.

Some medical talking heads have said that they didnt even Who made the needle marks....could of been done by the paramedics or whoever....Will we ever know ...

1. Did he for sure have needle marks ?
2. If so, how many & where on the body ?
3. Who put the needle marks there ?

[Unperson1984]

Didn't Bob Geldof take custody of Paula Yates daughter by Michael Hutchence after they both died? He wanted her to be raised with her half sisters (his daughters by Yates) I believe he got custody over Michael Hutchences parents. (I know this was in England, but I think best interests of the children is the standard there also). Debbie Rowe was rumored to have offered to take Blanket also, so that the three would remain together. Obviously we have no idea what Rowe will ask the court to do at this stage.

As far as I know, the question of custody is not contested at this time. MJ's Will designated his mother, she has temporary custody and unless her home is unfit she will get permanent custody.

It's not the ideal choice, but it's the best option at this time. IMO

[magnolia]

MJ did not fire her. His handlers fired her as per Raymone Bain on Geraldo at Large. He does not provide transcripts so no link. Raymone Bain also said she was fired by his handlers as well.

Oh please. It was HIS CHILDREN'S nanny. HIS CHILDREN'S NANNY. He might not have done the talking, but HIS CHILDREN'S NANNY was fired. He's responsible.

[BorderCollieMom]

Well i just about fainted ! shows that we can agree on something at least lmao!

darn firefox has a fabulous add on that stops scripts from running on web pages..which means no ads here but the emoticons are also scripts so i either i turn it on when i want to use them or am to lazy..i prefer no ads so will just say im using the rolling smiley lol

IMO

eta i don't know the name of the ER doctor that galanos has on today on HLN but i have seen her before and she is excellent. She doesn't make huge assumptions, she gives facts and isn't into sensationalizing. Just as she explained about burns, recovery time, skin grafts and the pain and how some can be in a burn unit for months and not get addicted while others do over a shorter time and it has to do more with an addictive personality and what causes it. No blame, not judgements just ..sense.

Hope she is used much more and by some other shows.

IMO

The blonde lady ? Ive wondered for years if MJ did have have to wigs after the Pepsi accident. She said he did. :(

[BorderCollieMom]

According to the doctors we have seen MJ had severe vitiligo which encompassed more than 50% of his skin -- I have posted this before because my AA girlfriend is affected by this and she had to this as well:


# Depigmentation—this treatment involves fading the rest of the skin on the body to match the areas that are already white. For people who have vitiligo on more than 50 percent of their bodies, depigmentation may be the best treatment option. Patients apply the drug monobenzylether of hydroquinone (monobenzone or Benoquin*) twice a day to pigmented areas until they match the already-depigmented areas. You must avoid direct skin-to-skin contact with other people for at least 2 hours after applying the drug, as transfer of the drug may cause depigmentation of the other person's skin. The major side effect of depigmentation therapy is inflammation (redness and swelling) of the skin. You may experience itching or dry skin. Depigmentation tends to be permanent and is not easily reversed. In addition, a person who undergoes depigmentation will always be unusually sensitive to sunlight.

http://www.medicinenet.com/vitiligo/page4.htm


Thank you.

You stated that so much better than me.

[disneyfreak]

Not sure if its been posted here but @craigsmithsblog on twitter is reporting that rumors are the State of California approved MJ's burial at Neverland. Smith is an attorney and professor at the local law school. He is generally right on about all things local in the legal world.

[BorderCollieMom]

Talking about the DEA on Issues w/ Jane. TMZ.

[BorderCollieMom]

Not sure if its been posted here but @craigsmithsblog on twitter is reporting that rumors are the State of California approved MJ's burial at Neverland. Smith is an attorney and professor at the local law school. He is generally right on about all things local in the legal world.

omg. are you serious ? thats the last place he wanted to be, imo.
He'll haunt that place forever....Joe will play it up however he can.
Im suprised MJ didnt specify a burial place.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

According to the doctors we have seen MJ had severe vitiligo which encompassed more than 50% of his skin -- I have posted this before because my AA girlfriend is affected by this and she had to this as well:


# Depigmentation—this treatment involves fading the rest of the skin on the body to match the areas that are already white. For people who have vitiligo on more than 50 percent of their bodies, depigmentation may be the best treatment option. Patients apply the drug monobenzylether of hydroquinone (monobenzone or Benoquin*) twice a day to pigmented areas until they match the already-depigmented areas. You must avoid direct skin-to-skin contact with other people for at least 2 hours after applying the drug, as transfer of the drug may cause depigmentation of the other person's skin. The major side effect of depigmentation therapy is inflammation (redness and swelling) of the skin. You may experience itching or dry skin. Depigmentation tends to be permanent and is not easily reversed. In addition, a person who undergoes depigmentation will always be unusually sensitive to sunlight.

http://www.medicinenet.com/vitiligo/page4.htm

Then I can maintain, the disease simply does not encompass the entire body..and then MJ had to entered into Bleaching ( with the creams you are outlining)...I think you just made my case...LOL..I do believe he indeed had Vitilgo..and I also belive the initiation of that One Glove he became famous for was because of it...

LMS:wub:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Talking about the DEA on Issues w/ Jane. TMZ.

And the "Man in the HAT' is on too..I dont much like this guy..he really does have attitude...:blink:

LMS

[disneyfreak]

omg. are you serious ? thats the last place he wanted to be, imo.
He'll haunt that place forever....Joe will play it up however he can.
Im suprised MJ didnt specify a burial place.

Rumour has it State of California days Michael Jackson can be buried at Neverland.


Make that State of California says

http://twitter.com/craigsmithsblog

[disneyfreak]

Honestly ...I don't care one way or another where they bury him. But I can't imagine the neighbors that live along that two lane road will be happy...if true.

Don't even get me going. I use that road when traveling up there to other places. I am so NOT looking forward to this if it is true.

[Firehead11]

omg. are you serious ? thats the last place he wanted to be, imo.
He'll haunt that place forever....Joe will play it up however he can.
Im suprised MJ didnt specify a burial place.

I think this is one area we will disagree. I think if he never wanted anything to do with Neverland, he would have left his portion be sold. I think he would have returned there. I also think it is a great legacy to his children. Joe will not have a say in it, Jackson's executors will.

[bkwits]

maybe technically...but I would bet my last dollar Old Joe got something to make it worth his while. Like that 200k for using that 10 minute clip of the reality show. imo

I would also bank on Tito and Latoya being paid for theirs. In some shape or form. imo

I really don't think that ABC paid Joe J. In money, that is. The network gave him air time to try to rehabilitate his image. He is dying to get hold of MJs kids and mold them into stars. He knows he is the biggest obstacle in KJ getting them (which, IMO, will definitely give him access).

All imo

[Firehead11]

If he planned on going back...it wouldn't have been stripped bare and everything that made it Neverland would not have been removed. IMO


You're wrong.
His executors have nothing to do with where he will be buried. It's next of kin. Apparently, MJ didn't leave instructions.

Maybe I should have stated it better
Joe will not have a say in any money that Neverland may earn or cost. It will be the executors job.

[BorderCollieMom]

Don't even get me going. I use that road when traveling up there to other places. I am so NOT looking forward to this if it is true.

Would they have to build more roads or something ? Seems like it...or only allow X number of buses per day. Id hate to have to travel that road.

[BorderCollieMom]

I think this is one area we will disagree. I think if he never wanted anything to do with Neverland, he would have left his portion be sold. I think he would have returned there. I also think it is a great legacy to his children. Joe will not have a say in it, Jackson's executors will.

You do have a different perspective on it I never thought about.
I kinda thought too that he wouldnt be buried in the USA at all. It always seened to me that other places in the world treated him so much better than the States...but thats just my personal opinion.

[disneyfreak]

Would they have to build more roads or something ? Seems like it...or only allow X number of buses per day. Id hate to have to travel that road.

The county, even with "measure D" funds, doesn't have the money to widen that road. Even if they could find the money and get a pass on the Environmental Impact Report (which is near impossible here in SB County) there is property that boarders on both sides of that road. It would be really hard to get the school and so on to move for the extra lanes.

It would cost even more to limit the buses. How will the sheriff enforce that law?

[BorderCollieMom]

If he planned on going back...it wouldn't have been stripped bare and everything that made it Neverland would not have been removed. IMO


You're wrong.
His executors have nothing to do with where he will be buried. It's next of kin. Apparently, MJ didn't leave instructions.

Neverland looked pretty empty lasy time I saw it. It was pretty cool looking. Awesome Kitchen. The only video I saw was the one with MJs supposed apparition outside and his shadowy figure inside.
I think it was Larry Ling night.

[BorderCollieMom]

I agree FH. Also he stopped the auction of the items that were removed from NL earlier this year. I believe it was VC2 who posted the article. I believe MJ was very bitter after the trial when he made that statement. Why would he struggle to keep it if he didn't want to go back? Not MJ -- but I do believe after the concerts he may have retired there with the children JMO


Somehow i missed all of this ... thanks for the info. though.

Time to watch Big Brother Live !!!

:tongueside:

[disneyfreak]

Hopefully...it isn't true.
Hopefully is right. However, IMO if Smith is mentioning it as a rumor, there was at least a good group of State employed folks up in the capital that wanted it approved.

[who_is_it]

Any thoughts on this? I wish they would release the results already. Now at least we know it was not a drug overdose that caused his death:

Jackson Police Probe is 'Criminal,' D.A. Says

Posted Jul 16th 2009 5:34PM by TMZ Staff

As we reported, LAPD detectives are treating Jackson's death as a homicide and focusing on Dr. Conrad Murray. Law enforcement sources tell us there is powerful evidence showing that Dr. Murray administered Propofol to Jackson and that drug was the primary cause of his death.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/16/michael-jackson-lapd-los-angeles-county-district-attorney-death-propofol/

From a legal point of view THIS doctor will be guilty if he administered the drug (and the one who prescribed the drugs but my feeling is they won't get / find the responsible doc).

From a moral point of view there are so many more guilty imo. The media, the AV, Sneddon... I don't buy the TMZ story that MJ's drug addiction "just" results from the Pepsi incident. I believe MJ's emotional pain during his last years was bigger than the physical pain back then.

[Unperson1984]

Not sure if its been posted here but @craigsmithsblog on twitter is reporting that rumors are the State of California approved MJ's burial at Neverland. Smith is an attorney and professor at the local law school. He is generally right on about all things local in the legal world.

They still need approval from the County of Santa Barbara and that will be a big problem. Santa Barbara has never approved a non cemetery burial.

[VC2]

Would they have to build more roads or something ? Seems like it...or only allow X number of buses per day. Id hate to have to travel that road.

BCM, they had all sorts of tours all the time for under priveleged kids and ill children at neverland when he was alive.

IMO they will be perfectly able to handle it by buying/leasing a place as a staging area in santa barbara so people go up by tour bus on schedules.

I agree if ppl are just to drive in but then again it is not that difficult to widen a road even in mountains. In fact if it was done, even a 3 lane, it could be charged to the estate.

Here in my woods i was shocked a few months ago, lots of construction on a portion of a 2 lane highway but the govt always puts up a sign with the cost, this time there was no cost but it said "paid for by Limbour homes estate". Turned out a builder had applied to build some homes that would vastly increase traffic and is done more and more here, they are now charging the builders to pay for road increases. This would be an ideal situation for that sort of thing.

IMO

[Unperson1984]

I agree FH. Also he stopped the auction of the items that were removed from NL earlier this year. I believe it was VC2 who posted the article. I believe MJ was very bitter after the trial when he made that statement. Why would he struggle to keep it if he didn't want to go back? Not MJ -- but I do believe after the concerts he may have retired there with the children. We don't know the contents of the trust -- wonder if it is mentioned there and what he wanted done with it? JMO

Another reason to save Neverland would be financial, he was going to lose it by foreclosure.

[who_is_it]

Yes that is true. MJ did have those around him that did not encourage him to do the right thing. I think they wanted to isolate him and felt uncomfortable with Grace being so close to both MJ and the kids.

But from what I have read Grace is right back now givimg them love and support. I am sure they are tickled.

imo

I agree that it wasn't good to fire Grace... but I don't think the people who surrounded him before his death had bad purposes. Phillips said they tried to keep away bad characters who influenced MJ in the past. You just have to see what bad people advised him before, during and after the trial (Schaffel, Wiesner etc.). Imo MJ was better off with DiLeo, Phillips etc.

[who_is_it]

Didn't TMZ find some documents that showed the nanny had a crush on Mr Jackson in high school and planned on marrying him back then?

Maybe Mr Jackson finally had enough of her misplaced love for him and his children.

in my opinion of course

http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/12/mjs-former-nanny-obsessed-from-an-early-age-fri-auto-p/

If you search something on TMZ you have to click on "filed under Michael Jackson"; this works fast.

[VC2]

Neverland looked pretty empty lasy time I saw it. It was pretty cool looking. Awesome Kitchen. The only video I saw was the one with MJs supposed apparition outside and his shadowy figure inside.
I think it was Larry Ling night.

According to a statement by the majority owners of Neverland, they and Michael Jackson had started to restore neverland and the buildings and they were concentrating on that still until any plans were made.

IIRC the people who joined MJ bc MJ transferred the deed to their name while keeping 24% ownership did so because he wanted to save the property rather than let it be foreclosed upon and sold.

He had every opportunity to sell it and the last time he jumped hoops to keep it. Infact i believe the auction of his goods was stopped because the LLC, MJ and the creditors came to an agreement.

Naturally if they are restoring it most items would be out of it especially since he was not living there at the time. One article or video had an example of the flooring that was being originally restored by a french company who had put in place at first.

IMO

[Unperson1984]

Would they have to build more roads or something ? Seems like it...or only allow X number of buses per day. Id hate to have to travel that road.

They would have to do more than build roads, they would need to build public restrooms, a place for tourists to buy beverages and I imagine some type of first aid station.

All of this only after they convince the County and City to change the zoning to Commercial Use. And I'm pretty sure Fess Parker and some of the other vineyard owners along that two lane road will have something to say about that decision.

[LILMANMAX]

I feel very sure DR M will be arrested.
There is no DR to arrest for prescribing Propofol as it is not a drug that is dispensed. Hospital or surgical use only.

DEA can trace the bottles down and maybe find the source that way.
That is if someone 'cops' to giving out bottles of it.

No way MJ self-administered this drug. NO WAY.

It is homicide plain and simple. MOO

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I know..many here dont like Nancy Grace..but she has some interesting guests...and many items of information that seems to confirm some things that first came out very early in this whole thing..aka..when MJ went to hospital...pronouced dead..interviews with Grace..which she apparantly recanted..etc..

Remember..in Grace's interview ..it was mentioned that KJ called her to find out where MJ hide his money and personal items...now tonight..apparantly money and jewels are missing to the tune on millions??

The finding of IV paraphenalia at the scene..and here we thought the scene was cleaned up??

I asked about surveilance back then....as it would it show removal of things and tonight find out parts are missing from an extensive serveilance video system...

It just shows to go ya...Money and power sure creates many problems..and when surrounding oneself with facilitators..makes for very muddy circumstances . I do believe Michael was addicted..and was simply unable to accept that FACT!!

LMS:ohmy:

[flipflop]

To retrace Jackson's drug history, investigators have provided the California attorney general's office with the names of several doctors and several aliases Jackson is believed to have used to score prescriptions. Those names, which have not been disclosed, were run through the state's prescription monitoring database, which has more than 100 million detailed entries of prescriptions written in California for regulated narcotics, such as Demerol.

"We found some things," Attorney General Jerry Brown said.

He wouldn't give specifics, but said the information would include how many prescriptions a doctor wrote, when the prescriptions were written, how much of a drug was prescribed and the strength of the drug. Because propofol is not monitored by the DEA, it would not show up in the state's database.

The work is painstaking.


http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=421335&GT1=28102

[flipflop]

I know..many here dont like Nancy Grace..but she has some interesting guests...and many items of information that seems to confirm some things that first came out very early in this whole thing..aka..when MJ went to hospital...pronouced dead..interviews with Grace..which she apparantly recanted..etc..

Remember..in Grace's interview ..it was mentioned that KJ called her to find out where MJ hide his money and personal items...now tonight..apparantly money and jewels are missing to the tune on millions??

The finding of IV paraphenalia at the scene..and here we thought the scene was cleaned up??

I asked about surveilance back then....as it would it show removal of things and tonight find out parts are missing from an extensive serveilance video system...

It just shows to go ya...Money and power sure creates many problems..and when surrounding oneself with facilitators..makes for very muddy circumstances . I do believe Michael was addicted..and was simply unable to accept that FACT!!

LMS:ohmy:


Thanks. I missed the 8:00. I will be sure to listen to the one at 10pm.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

I feel very sure DR M will be arrested.
There is no DR to arrest for prescribing Propofol as it is not a drug that is dispensed. Hospital or surgical use only.

DEA can trace the bottles down and maybe find the source that way.
That is if someone 'cops' to giving out bottles of it.

No way MJ self-administered this drug. NO WAY.

It is homicide plain and simple. MOO

Yep..I believe you are going to be correct..It really doesnt matter what MJ wanted..as his want and need eventually led to his death..but for a Medical Doctor to give this drug under the conditions here..is plain and simple..Malpractice..and knowingly gave a drug inappropriately lacking proper support staff/equipment..

I took alot of hard knocks for blaming Dr. M..initially..as many thought maybe MJ did this to himself..well, in a sense he did..but not directly..
I take what Dr. M did personally..being a caregiver myself..and knew he crossed the line!!

LMS

[retiredcop]

I feel very sure DR M will be arrested.
There is no DR to arrest for prescribing Propofol as it is not a drug that is dispensed. Hospital or surgical use only.

DEA can trace the bottles down and maybe find the source that way.
That is if someone 'cops' to giving out bottles of it.

No way MJ self-administered this drug. NO WAY.

It is homicide plain and simple. MOO

I'm not sure of that. I think we have to wait for the tox reports. It's possible Propofol isn't even in his system. It could be a combination of medication Mr. Jackson took. It could be ruled an accidental overdose.

Are the tox reports coming out tomorrow?

in my opinion only

[retiredcop]

To retrace Jackson's drug history, investigators have provided the California attorney general's office with the names of several doctors and several aliases Jackson is believed to have used to score prescriptions. Those names, which have not been disclosed, were run through the state's prescription monitoring database, which has more than 100 million detailed entries of prescriptions written in California for regulated narcotics, such as Demerol.

"We found some things," Attorney General Jerry Brown said.

He wouldn't give specifics, but said the information would include how many prescriptions a doctor wrote, when the prescriptions were written, how much of a drug was prescribed and the strength of the drug. Because propofol is not monitored by the DEA, it would not show up in the state's database.

The work is painstaking.


http://music.msn.com/music/article.aspx?news=421335&GT1=28102

It took over a year to complete the investigation on the Anna Nicole case and make arrests. Just for information.

in my opinion of course

[vonna]

I'm not sure of that. I think we have to wait for the tox reports. It's possible Propofol isn't even in his system. It could be a combination of medication Mr. Jackson took. It could be ruled an accidental overdose.

Are the tox reports coming out tomorrow?

in my opinion only

It was stated on the radio that the tox reports will be out next week.

[flipflop]

It took over a year to complete the investigation on the Anna Nicole case and make arrests. Just for information.

in my opinion of course

I am sure this will take awhile too. In that same article I am pretty sure it said toxicology reports are due back next week.

[retiredcop]

Hat Dude scares me...:scared:...well ...it's more like "creeps me out" and gives me the "willies":tongueside:!

Firpo Carr is his name. He always slides out of the wood work when anything breaks loose on Mr. Jackson.

He claims to have been very close to the Jackson clan. He is making the rounds of the talk shows again. He has quite an attitude.

in my opinion only

[retiredcop]

Maybe the custody hearing will be on Monday. I haven't heard anything about it being moved again. Yet that is. There is still tomorrow. I just think they would have given the courts more notice.

in my opinion

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Firpo Carr is his name. He always slides out of the wood work when anything breaks loose on Mr. Jackson.

He claims to have been very close to the Jackson clan. He is making the rounds of the talk shows again. He has quite an attitude.

in my opinion only

I agree..100%..I dont think I have heard anything meaningful or credible rom ths hat wearing guy..LOL

Maybe he is posting here??

LMS:scared:

[flipflop]

The office previously expected to wrap up the report late this week or early next week.

But Assistant Chief Coroner Ed Winter said Thursday that it's now expected to be two weeks away. He declined to explain the reason for the delay.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hPLRw0C5J9ESGnxkc_F6I2QbVoFwD99FSD2O0

Jackson Autopsy Report Delayed

Posted Jul 16th 2009 9:00PM by TMZ Staff

Michael JacksonThe L.A. County Coroner's office needs another two weeks before it releases the Michael Jackson autopsy report.

Sources tell us the reason for the delay is that several outside consultants have not finished their reports.

As we have already reported, some of the tests are already in and from all indications the drug Propofol will ultimately be listed as the primary cause of Michael Jackson's death. But the Coroner does not release partial results.


I just read the same thing on TMZ. :smile:

[retiredcop]

I agree..100%..I dont think I have heard anything meaningful or credible rom ths hat wearing guy..LOL

Maybe he is posting here??

LMS:scared:

I haven't heard anything new or meaningful out of his mouth either. During Mr. Jackson's trial he was all over the talk shows too. Very strange person.

in my opinion

[LordMisRule]

I agree that it wasn't good to fire Grace... but I don't think the people who surrounded him before his death had bad purposes. Phillips said they tried to keep away bad characters who influenced MJ in the past. You just have to see what bad people advised him before, during and after the trial (Schaffel, Wiesner etc.). Imo MJ was better off with DiLeo, Phillips etc.

People are always talking about the "people who were surrounding Michael" or calling them "the handlers".. Does anybody know who these people are? Are they naming names? We know of Dr. Conway, but who else? Who was the driving force, who made the financial decisions? Was it Tohme?

[LordMisRule]

Neverland looked pretty empty lasy time I saw it. It was pretty cool looking. Awesome Kitchen. The only video I saw was the one with MJs supposed apparition outside and his shadowy figure inside.
I think it was Larry Ling night.

I saw parts of Neverland from Matt Lauer's Today special. Here's a link:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31709057/ns/entertainment-gossip/

There should be at least 4 videos. There is also video of Fox's special "Michael Jackson Home Videos" on youtube that aired a few years back. You see parts of what Neverland looked like back in its hey day. One thing that I found interesting was that Gregory Peck's (who was a friend of Michael Jackson's and visited there), dog's name was Blanket.

[disneyfreak]

They still need approval from the County of Santa Barbara and that will be a big problem. Santa Barbara has never approved a non cemetery burial.

Agreed. We also don't want him here. I just don't see it getting to the point that SB County approves it. In fact, I'd be shocked if the board of sups approves it.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

People are always talking about the "people who were surrounding Michael" or calling them "the handlers".. Does anybody know who these people are? Are they naming names? We know of Dr. Conway, but who else? Who was the driving force, who made the financial decisions? Was it Tohme?

I am just like you..and you google any stage of his career..you will find names of various peeps who seem to go in and out of his life..It seems it all depended on if you said the "NO" word to him..MJ seemed to move from people to people..and then rehire ones when he realized his mistake..I really thing he didnt trust anybody...hummm.dont blame him.. really..but it was himself (MJ) who always was in control who represented him in legal afairs, accounting affairs..in Medical affairs..in security affairs..Yikes.. What a mess he made!! On one hand I dont blame him for removing himself from his family..but on the other-hand..he seemed to go with those that facilitated his wishes..even if they were not in his best interest....He died because of those choises..And yes he did chose to surround himself with facilitators/enablers...

I do have one question tho..just when did he start surrounding himself with Islam/Muslim..security?..It seems it became more prominent during his trial..but I wonder just what influences happened there??

LMS

[VC2]

Yep..I believe you are going to be correct..It really doesnt matter what MJ wanted..as his want and need eventually led to his death..but for a Medical Doctor to give this drug under the conditions here..is plain and simple..Malpractice..and knowingly gave a drug inappropriately lacking proper support staff/equipment..

I took alot of hard knocks for blaming Dr. M..initially..as many thought maybe MJ did this to himself..well, in a sense he did..but not directly..
I take what Dr. M did personally..being a caregiver myself..and knew he crossed the line!!

LMS

Lynda i have always agreed with you about Murray. I just think the diprivan is a whole different issue than narcotic addiction.

I can actually understand why/how MJ with the fact he could afford something crazy like a doctor to monitor him all night might think the diprivan was nothing more than something to make him sleep and yeah dangerous like most drugs but he knows its "safe" for him bc he has had it before. It is hardly a drug that everyone but a crazy person has heard of or seen examples of its dangers, like narcotics.

It was in fact a medication i could see him feeling a little pride in taking *instead* of an addictive narcotic :( not that he should have felt pride but that he was using it instead of narcotics to get to sleep and even ensuring the medical monitoring.

that imo is the biggest tragedy of all. It seems he had started to get himself more together and i don't care what anyone said, he was clearly healthier than he had been during the trial which is one of the last times the public really saw him. imo far healthier, he would never even have gotten to the point of a contract if he was half as ill as then (be it drugs or pain or psychologically..whatever your argument is)

Murray killed him. He killed him by using a drug that even a first year med student would realize needs intubation, rescue equipement, hospital monitoring etc etc and specialized knowledge to give. I don't expect MJ to know that, whatever warnings he got from the PDR and nurse. Addict or not, it would have killed a person given in a home setting (unless like ratner you were a board certified anesthesiologist with a mini clinic at hand and it can be argued that you had all that was needed for any mini surgical clinic and the medical knowledge - then just unethical) and Murray simply by virtue of graduating medical school KNEW THAT.

jmo

(and to those who think i am minimizing his addiction issues, i am not. I just do not see the diprivan as the same thing)

[VC2]

I agree..100%..I dont think I have heard anything meaningful or credible rom ths hat wearing guy..LOL

Maybe he is posting here??

LMS:scared:
:lol: omg that is so funny

yes i think at least one of the posters might be the guy with the hat and another one a self described expert on MJ whose initials have something to do with dum de dum :lol:

[LILMANMAX]

I believe enough of the results are in for the ME/LE to know how MJ died. That is not saying they are not waiting on more results though.

I also believe none of the results will be released until this criminal investigation is complete. They are working together on this. Possibly arrests and autopsy results at the same time. MOO

[VC2]

OT

Ritz Carlton in Jakarta has been ripped apart by explosions :(

[LILMANMAX]

Lynda i have always agreed with you about Murray. I just think the diprivan is a whole different issue than narcotic addiction.

I can actually understand why/how MJ with the fact he could afford something crazy like a doctor to monitor him all night might think the diprivan was nothing more than something to make him sleep and yeah dangerous like most drugs but he knows its "safe" for him bc he has had it before. It is hardly a drug that everyone but a crazy person has heard of or seen examples of its dangers, like narcotics.

It was in fact a medication i could see him feeling a little pride in taking *instead* of an addictive narcotic :( not that he should have felt pride but that he was using it instead of narcotics to get to sleep and even ensuring the medical monitoring.

that imo is the biggest tragedy of all. It seems he had started to get himself more together and i don't care what anyone said, he was clearly healthier than he had been during the trial which is one of the last times the public really saw him. imo far healthier, he would never even have gotten to the point of a contract if he was half as ill as then (be it drugs or pain or psychologically..whatever your argument is)

Murray killed him. He killed him by using a drug that even a first year med student would realize needs intubation, rescue equipement, hospital monitoring etc etc and specialized knowledge to give. I don't expect MJ to know that, whatever warnings he got from the PDR and nurse. Addict or not, it would have killed a person given in a home setting (unless like ratner you were a board certified anesthesiologist with a mini clinic at hand and it can be argued that you had all that was needed for any mini surgical clinic and the medical knowledge - then just unethical) and Murray simply by virtue of graduating medical school KNEW THAT.

jmo

(and to those who think i am minimizing his addiction issues, i am not. I just do not see the diprivan as the same thing)

Bingo on the Diprivan/Propofol.
Totally different animal.

[VC2]

ot more..seems the marriot was bombed as well :(

[GentleBreeze]

Not sure if its been posted here but @craigsmithsblog on twitter is reporting that rumors are the State of California approved MJ's burial at Neverland. Smith is an attorney and professor at the local law school. He is generally right on about all things local in the legal world.

Thank you!

I certainly hope that is true.

I think MJ had made comments recently about returning to Neverland when the tour money started flowing back in. It was in the middle of being updated when he passed away. They could go in there and completely change it inside.

I did hear on HLN yesterday that someone in the county had been contacted about a week ago asking about the legalese of what has to be done to bury him there.

At least there they can maintain tight security.

imo

[ScoobyDoo]

BCM, they had all sorts of tours all the time for under priveleged kids and ill children at neverland when he was alive.

IMO they will be perfectly able to handle it by buying/leasing a place as a staging area in santa barbara so people go up by tour bus on schedules.

I agree if ppl are just to drive in but then again it is not that difficult to widen a road even in mountains. In fact if it was done, even a 3 lane, it could be charged to the estate.

Here in my woods i was shocked a few months ago, lots of construction on a portion of a 2 lane highway but the govt always puts up a sign with the cost, this time there was no cost but it said "paid for by Limbour homes estate". Turned out a builder had applied to build some homes that would vastly increase traffic and is done more and more here, they are now charging the builders to pay for road increases. This would be an ideal situation for that sort of thing.

IMO


Thats how they do the Hearst Castle tours. You have to park at the bottom of a hill, have a reservation, and then take a bus up to the castle. While waiting you can eat, and look at stuff.

[GentleBreeze]

Agreed. We also don't want him here. I just don't see it getting to the point that SB County approves it. In fact, I'd be shocked if the board of sups approves it.

Why would they block it if they don't see it up as another Graceland.

I mean there is almost 3,000 acres on that ranch. It isn't like he will be right up near his neighbors.:confused:

imo

[VC2]

Bingo on the Diprivan/Propofol.
Totally different animal.

glad someone agrees lol. I really think the media is doing a disservice by equating the two. People are talking about "diprivan addiction" when even addiction specialists say they have never heard of it. Probably for a good reason, it isn't one. Unless you want to say someone who eats turkey every day believing the tryptophans will cure depression is addicted. Or takes a tryptophan supplement every day. as an example...not comparing the two's lethality or monitoring needs, just that they don't give highs and they are not an addiction just bc the person is addicted to a narcotic.

[VC2]

Thats how they do the Hearst Castle tours. You have to park at the bottom of a hill, have a reservation, and then take a bus up to the castle. While waiting you can eat, and look at stuff.

yes..and if the estate pays for any costs involved it can be a boon to the community without it being a problem.
In fact if they pay for all road repairs etc. it can save them money and make the neighbors happy. staging areas of land that is not being used in the city of santa barbara (and i say there rather than los olivos bc its large enough), scheduled tours, no reason for the locals to have a problem

so long as they do not have it as a 'everyone drives their private car up willy nilly' which would be a nightmare and understood that locals wouldn't like it.

[GentleBreeze]

Tom Sneddon's friends maybe ??? :angry:

:ohmy::w00t:

[VC2]

Tom Sneddon's friends maybe ??? :angry:

BINGO!!

Please send address so i can send your prize lmao

[Lyndawitha"Y]

glad someone agrees lol. I really think the media is doing a disservice by equating the two. People are talking about "diprivan addiction" when even addiction specialists say they have never heard of it. Probably for a good reason, it isn't one. Unless you want to say someone who eats turkey every day believing the tryptophans will cure depression is addicted. Or takes a tryptophan supplement every day. as an example...not comparing the two's lethality or monitoring needs, just that they don't give highs and they are not an addiction just bc the person is addicted to a narcotic.

Man oh man..MJ had an addictive personality...and just maybe he wanted to get off Narcotics..and Barbs..and Benzos..but Yikes..to trade off that addiction for this???? ..I have to wonder on the mindset??

I really do think, that MJ was addicted to the IDEA of getting SLEEP!! and in his mind..being aneasthetised..to him was sleeping..Yikes..NOPE!!..but then again..that is what he believed..!!

One thing for certain..He knew full well..the risks..but for some stupid reason he placed his life into this Dr.'s (Murray's) hands...You have to understand..MJ went to sleep...and never woke up..died..and he never felt a thing..nor had any emotional trauma..He basically died in a "Coma" state...Take comfort in that...."I do wish most that die..could die that way..but this happened by malpractice..and I wont even go into the lacking of medical staff and equipment...

Just another observation..If there was so many oxygen cylinders in bedroom..and many in garage..etc..It only shows this is not the first time he did this..( got lucky)...This sleep therapy has been going on for some time..IMO

LMS

[BorderCollieMom]

Anyone watching NG ??? She said reports say they seized an the IV pole with bag containing the liquid; bed sized oxygen tank; multiple oxygen tanks in bedroom and empty ones in garage but then she says they are gone??? So confused. Possibly robbed of $2M and jewelry. Fresh needle marks in neck -- Also his body is being guarded - threats of theft. :ohmy:


i was just watching that !!! jewels ? and cash gone ?

and a video tape missing that has his collapse on it is gone ?

[GentleBreeze]

yes..and if the estate pays for any costs involved it can be a boon to the community without it being a problem.
In fact if they pay for all road repairs etc. it can save them money and make the neighbors happy. staging areas of land that is not being used in the city of santa barbara (and i say there rather than los olivos bc its large enough), scheduled tours, no reason for the locals to have a problem

so long as they do not have it as a 'everyone drives their private car up willy nilly' which would be a nightmare and understood that locals wouldn't like it.

That is the way it is set up at Graceland. You get your tickets at another place and then board a tour bus and they take you to Graceland and then walk you through his estate there. It flows very well even though the tour buses are constantly coming in, no one gets backlogged. The staff is in constant contact with the other tour guides.

I just don't see a problem. No matter where the fans have to go to get on the tour bus they will go there. So I just don't see congestion backing up.

imo

[Unperson1984]

yes..and if the estate pays for any costs involved it can be a boon to the community without it being a problem.
In fact if they pay for all road repairs etc. it can save them money and make the neighbors happy. staging areas of land that is not being used in the city of santa barbara (and i say there rather than los olivos bc its large enough), scheduled tours, no reason for the locals to have a problem

so long as they do not have it as a 'everyone drives their private car up willy nilly' which would be a nightmare and understood that locals wouldn't like it.

How do you stop people from driving their own car just to gawk?

[BorderCollieMom]

I believe enough of the results are in for the ME/LE to know how MJ died. That is not saying they are not waiting on more results though.

I also believe none of the results will be released until this criminal investigation is complete. They are working together on this. Possibly arrests and autopsy results at the same time. MOO


O/T...but wanted to say Lhasa Apso's ROCK !!!!


carry on. :)

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Even if he were told the risks - because it was done before he would poo poo the nurse. But there's something strange with this whole thing IMO with the fresh needle marks on his neck per NG and she's saying the whole property was under surveillance -- but the video has gaps in it at the time of his death and there is video missing. Also a leather bag with IV eqiupment is missing? What is going on; this is more than him just being administered diprivan and accidently died ???

Ohhh, Athena..MJ's life has been so secretive..and stories, spins to observatons..for decades..I dont think we have one snippet of the whole story..and doubt we ever will...

There was an army of people that surrounded this man..and who really knows..who did what and why??and who told them to??..i have beciome very skepticle of not just media..but publicists..promotion companies..It does seem to be such a shame..!!

After this case..I look at most other "Stars" in a different light too..what they wish to show the world..and what really goes on behind closed doors..Brittany Spears meltdown..is just the tip of the iceberg of dysfunction!!

I am not trying to be holier than thou...but goodnes..I really dont like what I am seeing, hearing, reading..at all!!

LMS:cursing:

[GentleBreeze]

--------------

I agree, Athena........very suspicious. i was swimming when i first heard the radio report about MJ dying...........the first thing that came to mind was that he killed himself cause he knew he couldn't do 50 concerts. i hope someday that we will learn what really happened. jmo

I don't for one second think he tried to kill himself.

But I do think this case is going to be a homicide.

MJ was too upbeat and looking forward to the tour. He had no reason to kill himself imo and he loved his children too much to do that.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

----------

i didnt mean to infer that i thought he killed himself with the diprivan.
jmo

Oh, thanks, I misunderstood. Then may I ask you what you think he used to kill himself.

imo

[ScoobyDoo]

-----------

no.............u may not ask me. is this another set-up question? geesh


But she did ask you. Why not just answer the question?
:confused:

[GentleBreeze]

How do you stop people from driving their own car just to gawk?

Well you couldn't stop that if they went by Neverland today to see it but people learn quickly what they need to do to be able to get onto the estate to see the home and grounds. If the gate is closed to individuals that aren't in tour buses and they are not allowed in then they will go purchase the tickets elsewhere and come on the tour bus.

Graceland is in a very congested busy area but the operation there moves fluidly with no traffic jams.

imo

[GentleBreeze]

-----------

no.............u may not ask me. is this another set-up question? geesh

ok:shrug:

imo

[retiredcop]

ok:shrug:

imo

He could have killed himself by swallowing pills. Overdose.

just my opinion

[ScoobyDoo]

He could have killed himself by swallowing pills. Overdose.

just my opinion


Nope. He wouldn't have been able to do that to his children. He loved them.

[GentleBreeze]

He could have killed himself by swallowing pills. Overdose.

just my opinion

Didn't they just find two half dissolved pills in his stomach?

It is not going to be a suicide.

It is most likely going to be a homicide.

JMO

[GentleBreeze]

Night all :seeya: I think I'm MJ'd out !!

Nght, Athena!:smile:

[LisaM22]

after this, maybe the rich will find it harder to doctor shop, course then they just hire someone to go to the street I suppose

[LILMANMAX]

O/T...but wanted to say Lhasa Apso's ROCK !!!!


carry on. :)

Thanx.
I think they ROCK too.
Very precocious little fur-babies. Max is the beat of my heart. :smile:

carry on again

[ScoobyDoo]

after this, maybe the rich will find it harder to doctor shop, course then they just hire someone to go to the street I suppose


Its just an hour and half drive to Tijuana. I think you can get drugs there without a prescription, or you used to be able to.

[LILMANMAX]

The day of MJ'S death, I told my Aunt this was murder. This of course when all was circulating was a supposed shot of Demoral.
My immedaite suspicions were ruffled due to the 50 concerts. I had been following the tour announcements, insurance, etc.

I said 'he is worth more dead, than alive'. I voiced my concerns with a few close friends that weekend. Then Monday, after Geraldo's shows, a few of the non-believers were saying 'you might have something there'.

DUH I said.

I felt it on June 25th and have not wavered from it in the least.
Only more so with all the info that has come out.
When I heard about the Propofol, I knew I was right.

My Aunt's nurse asked me the other day if I had been speaking with Latoya. :ohmy:

[GentleBreeze]

after this, maybe the rich will find it harder to doctor shop, course then they just hire someone to go to the street I suppose

I don't think it is just a "rich" problem. From what I have read the average Joe or Jane does the same.

IMO, this is an epidemic in our country that affects all walks of life.

imo

[LisaM22]

I don't think it is just a "rich" problem. From what I have read the average Joe or Jane does the same.

IMO, this is an epidemic in our country that affects all walks of life.

imo

no it's not, but you have to have enough money to pay multiple doctors and buy multiple prescriptions, insurance will only pay for one, not all three or more and definitely not multiple prescriptions, so that cost would be on the drug addict themselves, the rich choose this way as if you get caught the punishment is a slap on the wrist compared to getting caught with street drugs, not to mention getting caught with them on your person may not even raise suspicion like street drugs would

[Unperson1984]

Well you couldn't stop that if they went by Neverland today to see it but people learn quickly what they need to do to be able to get onto the estate to see the home and grounds. If the gate is closed to individuals that aren't in tour buses and they are not allowed in then they will go purchase the tickets elsewhere and come on the tour bus.

Graceland is in a very congested busy area but the operation there moves fluidly with no traffic jams.

imo

I guess you would have to see the area and know the community in order to understand how isolated Neverland really is and to understand all the problems with making it a tourist attraction.

The required Environmental Impact hearings and reports would take three years just in order to change the zoning...this is California.

[Eagleeye]

Bingo on the Diprivan/Propofol.
Totally different animal.

Excuse me for interrupting. Propofol is the Generic equivilent of Diprivan. No it is not a different animal unless I didn't understand your post.

[Eagleeye]

Its just an hour and half drive to Tijuana. I think you can get drugs there without a prescription, or you used to be able to.

"Personal knowledge" or are you just throwing out some more of your nonsense. :thumbdown:

[VC2]

Sounds like a cover up for more than just someone giving him too much diprivan !! Just strange --

calm down Athena :) you are way to sensible to fall into the conspiracy trap lol.

If there is a video tape missing i am betting it is because a loyal security guard took it...or..god forbid me i am about to agree with bubbles, not htat it was necessarily a family member but that someone removed it to ensure it was not released to the media.

Other possiblity is to release it to the media but waiting..however i prefer to think the first.

Honestly it is not that strange. The biggest entertainer in the world collapses and dies, i expect some one takes charge of the videos. Do they turn them over to LE? depends on their motives. In fact considering things that have been leaked in cases i would have burned the thing if i thought it was an OD.

calm down...all these tabloids are getting to you lol

[Eagleeye]

Somehow, I thought the above was the title of the thread. It has degraded to personal attacks and nonsense. What are you people thinking? I am totally surprised that the Moderators have not shut this thread down for being totally off topic. I am disgusted with the content of this thread. How did it get to the low level it has become. If I didn't know better, I would think there were a gaggle of juveniles posting here today. Come on people, get a grip. You want to attack each other, start a new thread of hate and discontent if that is your thought process. It is not needed here. Hopefully tomorrow will bring some common sense and not the unecessary personal attacks and some input that addresses the content of the thread as intended. Wake up and smell the coffee in the morning. Hopefully that will give some here another direction.

[VC2]

Excuse me for interrupting. Propofol is the Generic equivilent of Diprivan. No it is not a different animal unless I didn't understand your post.

You misunderstood. She and I were talking about how in our opinion death by narcotics abuse/addiction and death by diprivan aka propofol are totally different animals.

[Eagleeye]

You misunderstood. She and I were talking about how in our opinion death by narcotics abuse/addiction and death by diprivan aka propofol are totally different animals.

I beg to differ, they are not two different animals. They are both as deadly as one or another. And may I say that as a medical professional, I have never seen Diprivan nor Propofol ever perscribed for home use. There is no legitimate or medical reason for doing so.

[disneyfreak]

How do you stop people from driving their own car just to gawk?

You don't. On top of that, we are talking about a type of business that Santa Maria (and to a lesser extent those of us in Santa Barbara) does not want. We don't want Michael Jackson T-shirts in the local stores and little shot glasses in tourist stores. We already have a great tourist trade during the summer and weekenders with bucks coming up from LA. Santa Maria has its own style that will not fit in with the tourist trade that this whole MJ thing would bring.

[daniel green]

i do not disagree that MJ had an addiction problem with pain killers but i honestly don't think that the diprivan was an "addiction".

snipped

Hello, VC!!!!!!! So good to see you!

I think that it was part and parcel of MJ's addiction. Taking it to the max.

[disneyfreak]

I guess it's kind of hard to live in constant pain when you have a doctor who is always ready, willing and able to help you out.
I can't imagine what I would do if my scalp was reconstructed after
3rd degree burns, I broke a leg, had back problems and insomnia.
Poor Michael. He was a blessing to us, but he had a lot of issues to deal with.
I never could have done it. I would have taken my millions and hibernated somewhere.

Maybe you'd do what he should have done? I have a family member who suffers from a reconstructed eye, suffers from severe nerve pain all the way down her back and leg, insomnia, and a shoulder and foot that dislocate monthly. She sees a chronic pain specialist who helps her get the appropriate medication for her condition. Since he's the only one who prescribes for her she doesn't have to worry about overdosing or taking a bad mixture of medication.

[aproudmom]

Is anyone familiar with this publication? I looked at Oprah's site and her schedule for the TV show does not go beyond 7/17. I did send an email to see if this can be confirmed and will provide an update should I get a response:

EXCLUSIVE: Michael Jackson's Kids Fathered by Jordan Chandler
Tuesday, 14 July 2009 20:36

In an exclusive interview scheduled to be aired on Oprah show on July 30th, former accuser in a Michael Jackson molestation trial, Jordan Chandler, confirmed that he fathered two of Michael Jackson's children - Prince Michael Jackson I and Paris Michael Katherine Jackson.

http://www.palluxo.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=651:exclusive-michael-jacksons-kids-fathered-by-jordan-chandler&catid=4:news&Itemid=104
WHAT OMG..no way can it get any crazier is my question

[aproudmom]

Very cool. Now it all boils down to how to best profit off his burial? MOO

the only thing I thought was cool was someone knew something NG didn't and she did not seem happy that the caller corrected her..so not sure if that is why root said the word cool or not..but I found it funny for someone to correct some of the people who have no clue what they are talking about..and she was a very smart women that called in and knew what she was talking about..JMO

[aproudmom]

Where does the bag of organs go, I wonder?
:shrug:
they are disposed of just like any other parts of the body..have you ever seen the red bags in hospitals? bio-hazards only..so guess from what I read they dispose of them just like they did when they removed my gallbladder cause I sure did not bring them home in a zippy bag..good question though are they incinerated geez hope my gallbladder is not floating down the river somewhere like another poster said happens sometimes..:scared:

[aproudmom]

Didn't LaToya recant her story way after the fact as well? ITA, the whole family is dysfunctional. I was at a party last night and this subect came up. Not one person in the room was sad for his death. They were like "good riddence, he's a freak". They did say "they felt for the kids".

MOO

sounds like a bunch of cold hearted freaky people IMO...he is a freak o well do they know him? but they felt for his kids well that is not caring about the kids saying it is OK he is a freak he is dead oh well pass me a drink johnny:rolleyes: there are freaks everywhere they just hide in the closet and pretend to be perfect..JMO

[aproudmom]

Didn't you JUST link a story that rehashed the Jordan Chandler allegations?????????????????:confused:

BTW I do not believe the story, in your link, for a second. imo


I am sorry but in Athena's post I saw a question asking if anyone had heard of this so called interview..not anything about the allegations..I guess I could be wrong but I saw a question about a interview and a answer to someone who ask if this was the daily thread..maybe I missed something..but I read the link and had no reason to point that out..I am not so sure it is true either actually I do not believe anything I read these days..JMO

[who_is_it]

Just a thought: I think Dr Murray and MJ knew each other from Las Vegas. Maybe they've also lived in the same area. MJ in Palomino Lane (a gated community)... and Dr Murray lives in any gated community in Las Vegas, too.

[retiredcop]

Just a thought: I think Dr Murray and MJ knew each other from Las Vegas. Maybe they've also lived in the same area. MJ in Palomino Lane (a gated community)... and Dr Murray lives in any gated community in Las Vegas, too.

I read somewhere that is where Mr Jackson met him. Don't remember where I read that though.

in my opinion

[Unperson1984]

Speaking of investigations, there was an interesting development during today's Los Angeles City Council meeting. The City Attorney appeared at the meeting and announced he has opened a civil and criminal investigation into Michael Jackson's memorial. The Council then went into a private session with the City Attorney for about an hour. After the private session the Council member who approved LA paying for security for the memorial told the press that she hadn't done anything wrong or illegal.

The findings of the investigation are due in 60 days.

[retiredcop]

------------

I dont see how its fair to charge the city of LA for security. The Jacksons should have to pay for that. JMO

Right along with AEG too.

in my opinion

[Unperson1984]

Looks like this may be it but not open to public. Shucks !!!

COUNCIL: Los Angeles City Council , Supplemental Agenda

http://ens.lacity.org/clk/councilagendas/clkcouncilagendas361427_07212009.pdf

I heard about it on the radio driving home, but I thought it was regarding several items on the agenda. Items 26 and 27 were also mentioned.

[KatieLady]

I heard about it on the radio driving home, but I thought it was regarding several items on the agenda. Items 26 and 27 were also mentioned.

Just heard about it in the car on the John & Ken show. Very interesting!!!

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Thanks

Starts on P17

http://ens.lacity.org/clk/councilagendas/clkcouncilagendas361393_07212009.pdf

Drat Athena..I cant open Pdf files....:crying: Ihave to download them before opening in a different window..so, is this link available in html?Just asking..TYIA

LMS:wub:

[disneyfreak]

Thanks

Starts on P17

http://ens.lacity.org/clk/councilagendas/clkcouncilagendas361393_07212009.pdf

For those that can't read PDF files:

07-21-09 PAGE 17
ITEM NO. (25)
09-1716 MOTION (HAHN - LABONGE) relative to the total local revenue attributable to the Michael Jackson Memorial Event from July 4-7, 2009. Recommendation for Council action: INSTRUCT the City Administrative Officer and Chief Legislative Analyst with the assistance of the Office of Finance, L.A. Inc., the Los Angeles County Office of Economic Development, the UCLA Anderson School of Management, and other local financial and economic experts, to report to the Council within two weeks with an estimate of the total local revenue attributable to the Michael Jackson Memorial event from Saturday, July 4, 2009 through the date of the actual event on Tuesday, July 7, 2009, and compare those economic benefits to the actual and direct cost of City services for public safety, traffic control, and sanitation services. ITEM NO. (26)
09-1715 MOTION (ZINE - PERRY) relative to the City resources used and expenditures made in response to the public reaction to the passing of Michael Jackson. Recommendations for Council action: 1. INSTRUCT the City Administrative Officer (CAO) to coordinate with the Controller, City Attorney, and all appropriate departments to review the City resources used and expenditures made in response to the public reaction to the passing of Michael Jackson and report to Council all appropriate measures which may be taken to offset the costs of these actions. 2. INSTRUCT the Chief Legislative Analyst and CAO to report to the Council with a policy direction that will clearly delineate financial oversight and liability for extraordinary, non-emergency, multi-departmental, large scale events and expenditures. ITEM NO. (27)
09-1678 CONTINUED CONSIDERATION OF MOTION (PERRY - PARKS) relative to the memorial service to honor the memory and accomplishments of the late entertainer, Michael Jackson, at the Staples Center on July 7, 2009. Recommendations for Council action: 1. INSTRUCT the City Administrative Officer (CAO) to report back to the Council within 30 days on the services provided by the Los Angeles Police Department, Los Angeles Fire Department, Los Angeles Department of Transportation, Public Works Bureaus of Sanitation and Street Services, Department of General Services, Information Technology Agency, Convention Center, and any other department required to provide services necessary to safeguard public health and safety including, but not limited to the following:
TUESDAY 07-21-09 PAGE 18
a. Police protection b. Fire and emergency medical response c. Traffic control d. Trash receptacles e. Portable toilets f. Street cleaning/repairs g. Illegal vending enforcement h. Security i. Communication services 2. INSTRUCT the CAO to report to the Council on any permits and insurance policies that may have been taken out by the memorial service organizer(s) to limit the City’s liability resulting from this event. 3. INSTRUCT the Chief Legislative Analyst to report to the Council within 30 days on existing policies and procedures by which City services are provided under specific circumstances, and which may, or may not, have been followed in this instance.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

For those that can't read PDF files:

TY..you are a peach..tho it didnt copy with your quote here..It was readable for me..in your original post..TY

LMS:wub:

[Lyndawitha"Y]

Here are articles related to the City Council Meeting:

L.A. City Council to discuss Michael Jackson funeral costs
10:20 AM | July 21, 2009

The city's price tag for the Michael Jackson memorial comes before the Los Angeles City Council this morning, and it could get nasty.

The council is expected to order a thorough audit of all city expenses for the memorial, and members specifically want to know why the city paid $48,826 for the 3,500 lunches handed out to police officers providing security.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/07/michael-jackson-35.html


LA Mayor At Center Of Jackson Donation Flap
City Under Fire Over Bumbling With Donations For Michael Jackson Event

AP Article

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/21/ap/music/main5177943.shtml

Oh..TY Athena..I really appreciate your efforts..I have read some of what you posted..but you are such a hard worker..just want you to know how much I appreciate it..:wub:

LMS

[disneyfreak]

TY..you are a peach..tho it didnt copy with your quote here..It was readable for me..in your original post..TY

LMS:wub:

Glad you were able to read it. When I did the copy/paste the formatting didn't come over to the board, making it into one giant paragraph.

[Lyndawitha"Y]

TY everyoe for the latest and the greatest..I have to sign off for tonight..Working again tomorrow..My clients do appreciate a bright eyed and bushy tailed "Caregiver"..LOL..emphasis on Bright eyed...

Have a great evening and day tomorrow..

Salut
LMS:seeya:

[retiredcop]

I don't see what the big flap is over what was spent on the police officer's lunches. Maybe they should of given them dry bologna sandwiches with a sprig of lettuce. The horses and dogs are police officers too. Didn't they feed them lunch?

in my opinion